Ever felt like the existing media just doesn’t get you? That’s exactly how May Abdel-Essam felt, and instead of just complaining, she did something about it. Born in Egypt and raised in Germany, May returned to Egypt at 16 and turned her dissatisfaction with women's magazines into the creation of "What Women Want," a groundbreaking publication that evolved into a highly successful media agency. In this episode, she takes us through her remarkable journey from a young intern feeling unfulfilled in traditional roles to becoming a media mogul and empowering voice for female creatives.
May opens up about the ups and downs of her entrepreneurial journey, from launching her magazine without any investors to navigating ethical dilemmas in advertising. She shares poignant stories about rejecting lucrative deals to maintain high standards and the personal toll it took on her. We also cover the evolution of her ventures and her current passion project, Her Story Films, designed to uplift female creatives. This conversation is a treasure trove of insights on how to balance professional ambitions with personal well-being, and the transformative decisions that helped her prioritize mental health while achieving business success.
We also dive into the collaborative efforts that have amplified her impact, including her partnership the government of Netherlands to support female entrepreneurs through the Film Incubator initiative. May's journey underscores the importance of support networks and staying true to one’s values. If you're looking for inspiration, valuable advice for aspiring businesswomen, and a heartfelt reminder to embrace imperfection, this episode is a must-listen. Join us as we uncover the lessons May has learned over nearly two decades of forging her own path in the media world.
May has a BA in Mass Communication with a specialization in integrated marketing from Misr International University in Egypt. She is a VV Grow MENA Fellow, VV Global Network Leader and a TedxCairoWomen 2016 Speaker. She has been appointed the WED Egypt Ambassador for 2016 to 2018 (Women Entrepreneurship Day) creating a network of female entrepreneurs in Egypt.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi there and welcome to another episode of African
Business Stories.
Africa is the only region inthe world where more women than
men choose to be entrepreneurs.
What this says to me is thatthe story of business in Africa
is the story of the Africanbusiness woman.
So we are on a journey ofdiscovery to find these women
(00:23):
and tell their stories.
So we're on a journey ofdiscovery to find these women
and tell their stories.
On the show, we will hear fromfemale innovators and
entrepreneurs building andrunning businesses in Africa.
They will share the highs andlows of their entrepreneurial
journey and lessons learnedalong the way.
Some of these women you mayknow, and many you may not, but
(00:48):
I assure you that all theirstories are inspiring in their
own right.
My hope is that these storieswill inspire you to reach for
your dreams and leave a legacyfor generations to come.
It makes such a big differenceto us if you can rate, review
and share our episodes.
You can do this mainly on ApplePodcasts, and you can find us
on all podcast platforms Ifyou're in Africa.
(01:09):
Spotify is now available, socheck us out there and don't
forget to rate, review and share.
On today's episode, I chat withMay Abdel-Essam, an Egyptian
serial entrepreneur whose careerin media spans almost two
decades.
She's the founder and managingdirector of what Women Want
(01:33):
magazine, media and More Agency,mindful Publications and, most
recently, co-founder of HerStory Films.
May was born in Egypt, raisedin Germany and returned to Egypt
as a teenager.
She describes how a frustrationwith the content of magazines
as a young lady led her to startwhat Women Want magazine.
(01:56):
How other companies impressedby the marketing of the
publication approached her foradvertising and activation
campaigns.
This led to the creation of thepublication approached her for
advertising and activationcampaigns.
This led to the creation of themedia agency.
18 years later, her businessescontinue to thrive and she's now
focused on empowering otherfemale creatives through a new
(02:18):
venture Her Story Films.
Let's get into it.
Welcome to African BusinessStories.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Thank you, very nice to be on board.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I wanted to start very quickly with just getting
to know you a little.
I know that you were born inEgypt, but you were actually
raised in Germany, which is so,so interesting.
So how did that all happen?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, my parents used to live in Germany and, of
course, I didn't have much sayin this.
I was born in Egypt, but I wasraised in Germany.
I moved to Egypt when I was 16.
So, yeah, so my first, my realsocialization, my upbringing,
the voice of my inner child, ofmy dreams, and all of that is
(03:03):
actually in German.
Wow.
So what was that experiencelike?
Growing up in germany?
Anywhere you're planted, youjust grow, you know.
I mean, it's not much of achoice where you grow up, where
your parents are, where you liveand all of that.
So, um, I think it waseverything I knew back then.
I knew Egypt, my home country,from holidays, from the summers
(03:27):
basically.
Kids of immigrants who grow upin the West usually know their
home country from summerholidays.
It's all about summer memoriesand lots of relatives and
staying up late and getting tobe spoiled by grandparents and
all of that.
So this was what I knew backthen, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, you grew up with dual languages.
You were learning Arabic andGerman at the same time.
Yes, I grew up bilingual.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It was very important for my parents that we speak
our native tongue fluently, thatwe don't go return in summers
and speak with an accent orspeak like this broken arabic.
So it was very, very importantfor them that we're native in
both languages.
The, the country that we livein, that is our home and, at the
(04:17):
same time, the country where wecome from, our roots and and
language and culture is is verymuch a a way to give roots to
children who are raised in acountry that is not theirs.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
So what brought you back to Egypt at 16?
You said you moved back at 16.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yes, it wasn't my choice I mean, as a kid, it's
never your choice.
It was a decision.
Actually, it wasn't a realfamily decision.
It was more the decision of mymother, who was living with us
in Germany and she didn't likeit.
She didn't get used to theweather, to the lack of sunshine
(04:56):
, to the language, to the wholeculture.
It wasn't hers, and I think shewas in her early forties when
she said I'm not going to dothis anymore and literally
packed me in a suitcase and putme on a plane and said we're
going to do this differently now.
So yeah, it wasn't really mydecision.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So, coming back, what was that like for you as a 16
year old?
You're a teenager, you'reliving your best life and you
have to leave your friends andgo back to Egypt.
What was that like, I tell?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
you, I wasn't living my best life because I was in an
age.
I was at an age where you startconflicting with the own
culture and the culture you'rein.
I was a very rough teenager andI was always a troublemaker.
So it was this notion that mymom always thought back home,
(05:50):
everything is better, the grassis greener, you know, on the
other side.
This was this notion, so for meit was like a fresh start
somewhere else.
I was extremely lucky.
I got into the German school inCairo and initially, suddenly I
met people who are like me, whoare either coming from mixed
families they're half German,half Egyptian or they're
(06:13):
children of diplomats, sothey're used to moving around
and it was very, verymulticultural and international
in a different way, because Iwas more at home, because we
come from from the countries isreflects the same culture that
my mom would like me to be morenative in.
(06:34):
And suddenly you know peoplelook, look like you.
I was the only brown kid in myclass and suddenly you have like
people who look like me and whoget it when I say this is fine,
this is not fine.
So it was actually quite arefreshing experience.
I loved it.
I had a great time.
I connected very, very easilyand it was a very, very smooth
(06:56):
transition.
I never would have expectedthat.
I think I was really lucky thatit was and I kind of found my
place.
It was and I kind of found myplace, which I had been able to
in my first 16 years.
I mean, how many teenagers knowwhere they belong or find their
place in such an early age?
So for me it was actually.
(07:17):
It was a good thing thathappened.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
That is such a great story, so how did you then
decide that you wanted to studydrama in Berlin?
Speaker 2 (07:51):
but the spot at university.
I was on a waiting list.
I would have had to wait forlike six semesters and my mom my
mom did not want me to go, butmy dad used to live in Germany.
He came back later on after heretired, so he wanted me to come
back to Germany.
And my mom wanted, wanted me tolive in Germany.
He came back later on after heretired, so he wanted me to come
back to Germany.
And my mom wanted me to stay inCairo.
(08:11):
And so drama said I can come andstudy in like six semesters
literally like two or threeyears, that I have to wait.
And so I was looking for otherthings fashion, design, cinema,
film, da da da.
And then my mom said there'ssomething called mass
communication.
It's quite nice, take a look.
So I took a look, so this isactually what happened.
(08:33):
And she said while you'rewaiting, why don't you start?
I was like, yeah, I mean, youcan't bum around like for six
semesters and do nothing or workat McDonald's.
So I said, why not?
And I enrolled and, funnyenough, I was always going to to
go back.
But then I met my now husbandand we started dating at 19.
(08:55):
So it's always a guy you know,so literally it's it's fate that
got me back to Egypt and it'sfate that kept me in Egypt.
And yeah, yeah, I think it'sbeen always in the books, so it
wasn't really really my choice,it was something that just came
up and kind of you know thatdiverted my path into a certain
direction that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So so you, you go to university and you study mass
communication.
What were job opportunitieslike back in those days?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
let me go a step.
I was never good at school.
School was never interestingfor me, you know, because I used
to.
I used to actually um, put allof my energy in okay, these
subjects I can ace, solow-hanging fruit, and then
these subjects I would have toinvest this amount of time to
get a B.
But if I get a C I can let youknow this my energy used to go
(09:46):
into that direction, into how,to, how to, you know, harvest
low-hanging fruit, never, never,reach for more.
Because it wasn't interestingto me, because it was socially.
I loved school.
Academically I hated it.
It was, in my eyes, one sizefits all doesn't, doesn't work.
It was a waste of my timecompletely.
(10:08):
So when I went to university andI studied, actually, something
I really like, I aced it.
I was, I graduated with highesthonors and it was something
that came so easily and it made,it made so much sense and it
was just duh, it's so easy, it's, it's a no-brainer, because it
was some.
For the first time I wasstudying something that I find
interesting, that I completelyunderstand and that that's just
(10:30):
common sense to me.
So the four years passed very,very easily and for me I was
like oh wow, this is great, thisis what.
This is basically what I wantto do.
This is all aboutcommunications, about marketing,
about having ideas, aboutgetting them across, about
pitching an idea and convincingsomebody on the other end of the
(10:51):
line to actually buy into youridea or to approve it or
something like that.
Because when I was younger I waslike 16, I used to talk to my
friend Nada.
Back then I was like when Igrew up, I didn't know what an
agency is, I didn't have theterminology, and I used to say I
want to get paid for my ideas.
(11:12):
I want to have this companywhere I can sell ideas and
people pay me for my ideas.
So that's basically something II had in my head and like fast
forward, uh, fast forward to now, when I think of it.
Actually, I do get paid for myideas.
So, okay, check done, great.
So, um.
(11:33):
So starting university is whenI discovered that if you put
your energy into something thatyou really really like and love
and are passionate about, itdoesn't feel like work.
So this is where I had thismoment.
I was like okay, this is what Iwant.
I want to be doing.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Then you know you were talking and like three
times you said it wasn't mychoice, it wasn't my choice, it
wasn't my choice.
So would you say that this waskind of the first time where you
chose.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, I think, the first time where I chose.
I still believe that we don'treally choose, you know, I think
that or in hindsight, you know,when I look at my life or the
past years, I completely believein divine intervention and I
believe that while of course youdo have a choice I mean you
decide to go right or left Ofcourse you do have a choice on a
(12:26):
superficial level, but on adeeper level, I really believe
that everything I chose, or Ididn't, either was or wasn't for
me.
So I was always, you know,directed through divine
intervention to a place I shouldbe.
You know, sometimes it's nearserendipity that something pops
up and you're at the right timeat the right place.
(12:46):
Other people call it destiny,other people call it divine
intervention.
You know, whatever rocksanybody's boat, but I believe
that sometimes things that aremeant to be yours find you.
That doesn't mean that youdon't make find you.
That doesn't mean that youdon't make decisions.
That doesn't mean that youdon't work hard, that doesn't
mean that you don't give yourbest.
(13:06):
But I still believe thatsometimes we think we make
choices, conscious choices, andsometimes they're just not
things, and if you allow them tohappen, sometimes really
beautiful things happen so, justcoming back to your story, uh,
so you, you finish university,you, you actually find something
(13:29):
that you love to do and it'sit's no longer feels like work.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
So when you then have to go out and and find find a
job, it's also funny because Inever really looked for a job,
the jobs always found me.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So again because my first job I used to during
college.
I used to intern in a marketingresearch firm.
I used to work with thempart-time, I was their intern
and as soon as I finished mystudies, they they offered me a
job.
So I had a job, you know, andthen I graduated I think I was
(14:06):
like maybe 21, 22, something inthat range, and I was working
full-time until I was 26.
And in these five, six years Ihad so many jobs because every
year I was never stable in aplace.
I was always working very, veryintensely.
And then I reach a point wheresomebody offers me another job
(14:27):
and I was like, oh wow, this islike way more than I than I make
.
Maybe it's time for a change.
Because when you're younger,like six months feels like
elephant years, or a year feelslike elephant years.
Now, in my 40s, I was like,yeah, I need another year to
think about it.
You know like crazy, crazyterms, yeah.
(14:49):
So I kept on going from onenice job to another and my
longest maybe was like two yearsor two years and a half, and I
would always find that I'm that,that I'm bored.
You know, it's like somethingis is missing and, um, I, I do
the job.
Well, I get promoted, I excel,I do this and I do that and then
(15:10):
suddenly I'm I'm completelybored.
I think that I'm using I wasnot using my whole capacity.
You know, it's like what do I dothe rest of the day?
And yeah, and this took on fora while, until I started the
magazine, I was still working ina job.
(15:31):
I had like a small disagreementwith my back then manager and I
was like you know what, i'm'mgonna quit and I'm gonna focus
on on the magazine.
And this is basically what Idid, because it would have been.
I was into um, I had issued thefirst two issues and I was
still working, and then I quitum, took an office and yeah, and
(15:53):
then almost 20 years passedsince that day so what made made
you start the magazine?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
You were already in a dress, so this is you being
bored and wanting to dosomething extra?
I'm assuming.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, some people approached me.
They wanted to work on a guidefor women da, da, da, stuff like
that and then I kind of turnedit into a magazine.
I was like, yeah, why not?
I used to do the schoolmagazine and here and there and
stuff like that and it's mystudy, it's what I know, it's
what I like, I've always been awriter and writing in a school
(16:27):
magazine and stuff like that andthere's nothing really that
resembles me that I can read.
I mean, all of the women'smagazines are like very glossy
and it's all about glitz andglam and usually they don't
represent people who look likeus.
They're all like.
I mean, I grew up in the 90s,so size zero was something that
basically you know, ruined myrelationship with food until now
(16:53):
.
So they never really lookedlike me, neither in Germany or
even when I moved to Egypt.
They still didn't look like me.
Because you have all themagazines still trying to get
the blonde, bleached, skinnybabe on the cover and stuff like
that.
There's always been so manymixed messages.
You know, page five, how tolove yourself, page 10, how to
(17:14):
lose that mommy pooch, and thenpage 15, how to get a nose job,
and then page 20?
How to keep the guy.
Is that so many mixed messages?
What is it?
Should I love myself, get anose job or change myself for
the guy?
Just give me one clear messageso I can understand.
So I think that was a littlebit of of how it all started.
(17:35):
And then we yeah things youknow just got a life of its own.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
So the people who approached you, were they
approaching?
Were they going to fund themagazine, or how did you fund?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
No, they actually it has it had an.
It was an idea we were going toall co-fund and we're not
partners anymore.
That was really literally athing of 18 years ago and no,
the magazine.
I've never, ever had an investor.
All of my businesses areliterally bootstrapped.
I've never had an investor.
Partnership is so so, so, sovery difficult because I have a
(18:11):
certain moral compass or like anethical standard that I've set
very, very high for me and andoftentimes I would always say,
if I had a partner at this stage, that person would think I'm a
complete nutcase and take theway away the company from me
because, for example, I don'ttake certain advertisers.
I would not take.
(18:32):
I mean, you have all of the thebeauty, plastic surgery
industry.
They're like lining up toadvertise with us because we
have high credibility among ourtarget audience and I would
never, ever take money orcommunicate on any of my
platforms that you do need anose job.
I mean, if you want to go getone, go ahead.
(18:54):
It's great respect, but it'snot something I'm going to sell
to younger girls.
So, um, so yeah, so it.
It it's always has beenbootstrapped.
It always has been uh, my ownmoney, my own risk.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Um, uh, yeah and how have you seen that grow?
What's your readership like?
Over the years it's been moreover 15 years.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
The magazine is turned 18 years last march.
Yes, so congratulations, thankyou.
I think the first 10 years I'vebeen just running, running,
running, because you have this,this, this hustling mentality.
You know, you're just, you're ahustler.
You have to like, take carehere and there, and oh my god,
how I'm gonna pay rent andsalaries, and here and there,
and oh my god, how I'm gonna payrent and salaries, and here and
(19:39):
there, and stuff like that.
And then suddenly, after 10years, you realize, okay, we're
not, like, we're not a startup,so you don't, you can't continue
doing business with the startupmentality.
You need to realize that you'reat a certain point and you need
to start behaving accordingly.
That was a learning process,because you have this, this
mentality, like, okay, I'm goingto bring this from home and I'm
(19:59):
going to like bring the printerfrom home, and you know this
hustle mentality.
And then you reach a point.
No, this, this is a business.
It has to generate income, ithas to be able to able to scale,
it has to have certainattributes.
So it took a while.
So the first 10 years it's likerunning, running, running,
trying to to stay afloat and tobe relevant, and all of this and
(20:19):
then suddenly you realize, ohOK, let's just take a break and
just like, take a look andreevaluate, reassess.
Are we running into the rightdirection?
Is it this, is this what youreally want?
And stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
And you also started another magazine in that time.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I know it's been discontinued started another
magazine in that time I knowit's been discontinued the
travel mag.
It was um.
Back in 2010.
It we launched in 2010, rightbefore um two issues before the
egyptian revolution in in 2011,jan 2011 and it was, back then,
the only travel magazine in town.
It was doing really great.
(20:56):
I personally loved it.
I love traveling, I love theimagery and for me, it was it
was a second magazine.
So all of the things that Ilearned, the mistakes I made
with the first magazine it waslike you know, instead of
starting here, you started there.
So it was like a really nicerollout.
I loved it.
And then the revolution happenedand and then, of course, you
had huge economic problems andthere was for a long time, there
(21:23):
was no tourism and inbound,outbound and stuff like that.
So I literally printed thefourth issue out of my own
pocket for nostalgic reasons,because I want the.
2011 was such a glorious date.
I wanted to have it on thecover printed and all of that.
But I had to pull the plugbecause it was about surviving
(21:47):
and for me, what women wantmagazine had to be the one that
survived.
So I had to pull the plug onthat.
Yeah, and back then, actually2010,.
I had founded a publishinghouse called Mindful
Publications.
It was in Cyprus back then andI was going to start to publish
books.
And there's a book of a friendof mine, a novel she had written
(22:11):
back then and that was supposedto be the first one.
Sense of Musk is the name.
But I lost so much money duringthe revolution and all of that,
so I had to tell her go ahead,you have to find another
publisher or self-publish orwhatever.
I will not be able to do itbecause I lost money and I have
to make sure that we, you know,you have to get rid of any
(22:33):
excess and you have to make surethat you stay light and agile
and float through this financialcrisis.
So I had to shut down thepublishing house and all of that
.
Ten years later, in 2020, Ifounded it again.
It's based in Egypt and westarted publishing books.
(22:58):
So this is what I mean with's,not with a divine intervention.
It really happens at the righttime, because I want so, I
always want, I'm very fast pacedand I want so many things and I
try to and I do so many thingsat the same time, but this was
just not.
The time wasn't right.
2010 wasn't right for me inthat stage to publish books um
(23:21):
10 years or 12 years later.
It just makes more sense.
It was.
It was different, it was adifferent experience.
It was a different financialstanding that I had.
It was a different uh networkthat I had.
It was a different safety netthat I have now versus in 2010,
which which made it easier forme to do that 10 years later.
(23:43):
So sometimes it just takes adecade for the right time to
just come.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
At some point in between Mindful publications and
what Women Want magazine, youstarted a media agency, so talk
to us a bit about that.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
That was actually also almost 18 years ago.
Thing is that I also studiedmarketing and all of that, so
it's always been a thing.
So I started doing differentactivations marketing
activations to promote themagazine.
I would ask brands with likereally low budget to sponsor it,
and the idea was always topromote the magazine.
You know, I would have like Iget an outdoor kitchen on a very
(24:22):
known beach the North Coastduring August, so everybody
would be there and I would getback then a very famous
celebrity TV chef to come andcook and would ask sponsors to
pay for the ingredients andstuff like that, and the idea
was always to promote themagazine.
So people would come, brandswould approach me and would ask
me OK, could you like work on aproposal and do activations but
(24:45):
that are not related to themagazine, that are related to
our brands purely.
I was like, yeah, why not?
Does it pay?
Let's do it.
So this is basically how ithappened and it allowed me to be
autonomous in the magazinebecause media and more the
agency would bring in money andat times where the magazine
(25:06):
would not make any money becauseit's very difficult for a
publication that relies onadvertising and and and things
like that way before the socialmedia age.
I mean, we're there since 2006,so you had good months and bad
months and and it's it's notlike a very profitable industry.
If you do it my way, you know.
(25:26):
If you do it the other way andbecomes this glitz and glam and
we say anything just to to tosell more ads, then of course
it's it's profitable.
So media more gave me fulfilledthe, the need that I had for
people to pay me money for myideas.
So initially that was a goodthing and it was a source of
income.
That's commercial.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
that makes sense yeah , I've seen some of your clients
.
You have some incredibleclients.
I saw astZeneca on the list.
You know Johnson and JohnsonVodafone.
That business ran off and hasbeen very successful.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Thank God I can't complain.
I mean back again, if I go backto 2009,.
We started going into tech anddoing websites and all of that
which was back then a neededthing in the Egyptian market.
And 2010, we started offeringour clients social media
management.
It was weird back then to go toa company and tell them you pay
(26:20):
us money and we manage yourFacebook.
The IT does that.
You had the IT person postweird cats and dog pictures and
stuff like that for a company.
So in 2010, we had our firstsocial media client and then the
revolution happened and thesocial media boom happened and
(26:42):
then it was very relevant whatwe're doing.
So I think 2010 to 2016 was ourpeak.
We had loads of FMCG clients.
We used to do most work forNestle and all of its brands
Nescafe and stuff like that wasthe peak.
It was really a peak that wehad.
(27:02):
We started a production houseproducing digital content online
.
We would have the Germans comehere and stay for a few months
with us and produce all of theirglobal assets and stuff like
that.
So it was a really, really goodtime and it was also a peak for
the agency.
And it was a very bad time forme, because I was completely
burnt out of doing so manythings at the same time.
(27:22):
And it's a very digital, it's avery dynamic industry.
You're, you're, you're onlineall the time.
You uh get a complaint.
Uh, saturday morning, fridaymorning, and stuff, you, you're
alert all the time.
And and back then, 2014, 2015,I was already burning out and I
burned out so many youngerpeople who work in the creative
(27:44):
industry along with me and thenI was like, no, this is not,
this is not how how I want tolive and this is not the
lifestyle I signed up for.
This is not what I want formyself, this is not how I want
to live and this is not thelifestyle I signed up for.
This is not what I want formyself and this is not what I
want for my team.
It was a long process.
Back then, I started to likefeng shui, my life and see okay,
which client is draining us,which client is not making the
(28:04):
money we should be doing?
We started to put boundaries.
Okay, we're not doing this onthe weekend.
If we're going to do this onthe weekend, it's an extra
charge.
We would hire somebody else todo it, stuff like that.
And it was a long, long processto actually move from.
Back then I wanted to be likethe biggest social media agency
in Egypt, and here and therethat was, you know, like crazy
(28:26):
stuff.
You always think you want to bethe biggest, the best and all
of this.
And then you realize there's ahefty, hefty price tag and if it
costs my kidney, I don't wantit, and if it costs my mental
health, I don't want it, becauseat the end of the day, I mean,
it's just advertising.
You know, it's not like I'msaving Palestine or I'm creating
(28:46):
a cure for cancer.
It's something very, veryshallow and it's something we do
for fun.
And so I started to change it.
Now, my team we never had nineto five hours.
I mean, you had nine to fiveand then you leave whenever the
job is done and then no, I wantto attend my kids, I want to
take my kids to practice, I wantto still do homework, I want to
(29:11):
be there for bedtime, da da, da.
And then it took.
It took a while, but then itwas a decision taken.
We started to actually onlywork with clients who we
extremely respect, we love theirproducts, we get along with,
who have some some sort of apurpose.
We do a lot for UN women, we doa lot for for USAID, we do a
lot for the National Council forWomen and stuff like that.
So suddenly it's also just cameinto our direction that we have
(29:34):
this certain expertise when itcomes to women and family and
creating content and stuff likethat.
And then we started attractingthe people or the clients we
really want to work with.
So what I'm saying becausesometimes you make a choice and
you're not really aware of ofthe beautiful things you're
going to be attracting, uh, whenyou move boundaries.
(29:56):
So it was also a process that Istarted doing right at the peak
because, um, we were at thepeak and things look good, but
you're not really happy and andto enjoy because you're so
exhausted and and give melimitations and no, this is not
what I want to do that is sointeresting, you know, because a
lot of times you're right,we're chasing success, but at
(30:17):
the expense of our soul, andsometimes you know it.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
It's important to stop and and take stock of
what's really important, and Ithink a lot of things have
happened in life recently thatthat make us think about what is
important and how we balancethis desire to succeed and what
does success look like, fromfamily to work.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
So that's very interesting.
So you make that balance, youset your boundaries, you attract
the clients that you actuallywant, actually actually want to
work with.
But then May doesn't stop.
She goes on and starts morebusinesses.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Yes, yeah, yeah, it's trauma response.
I'm sure it's trauma response.
All of this is trauma response,so yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
You now take the zero focus on on women and giving
back and empowering other womenand we come to mindful
publication, where you pick upthis publication business again
and focus on women andpublishing books.
I don't know that I know anyother company that does that.
(31:25):
Maybe they are, but at leastnot on the continent.
So what made you pick that upagain and just focus exclusively
on women writers?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I think it's always like this really nice puzzle
piece, okay.
And then when I wanted to putthis puzzle piece in my puzzle
10 years ago, it wasn't theright time, it wasn't the right
fit, you know, and back then theidea wasn't about women and all
of that.
It was just, oh, my god, my,this is really great, I want to
(31:53):
do it.
I love this book and and myfriend wrote it and stuff like
that.
And then, when it happened atthe right time, I was at the
place, uh, in in life and in, inin my experience, in my, in my,
my journey, where I this makesmore sense because this is
something that I've been doingmy whole life, even consciously
(32:15):
or subconsciously, and I reallyfeel that this is what I want to
be doing.
If I can give my platforms ormy access or my network to other
women to create art or to gettheir message across, then this
is a win for everyone.
So I said, okay, this makessense, and out of this came the
(32:37):
idea of Her Story Films.
Her Story Films is the latestbaby and it's a film production
company that is exclusivelydoing capacity building for
female filmmakers and producingfemale filmmakers.
We currently have developed 20.
We had a competition for a filmincubator.
(32:59):
Over 140 female directorsapplied.
20 were selected by a selectioncommittee, by a selection
committee.
Their short films weredeveloped in an incubator and
actually were announcing thefinal six projects today or
tomorrow and next week we willbe choosing three short films
(33:26):
from these six and they will beproduced after the summer.
And for me it was like a naturalevolution of of what I've, what
I'm doing, because I'm astoryteller.
I always see myself, I've beena storyteller all my life in
different, different forms of of, of different platforms,
different media and all of that.
(33:46):
And I always saw myself as, sawmyself as somebody who builds
bridges, because my connectionbetween the East and the West
Germany and the Western cultureand our Arab Oriental culture,
so I've always seen myself aslike an ambassador of a sort.
So it kind of came naturallythat the story is in writing and
(34:08):
then it's in a book and thenit's in visual media and so on
and so forth.
So it was just a naturalextension.
The twist here is that for thefirst time in many, many years,
I do have a partner, andactually it's quite a crazy
story.
I was having a massage.
I always say it's a meditation.
It sounds so much cooler, butactually it was a massage and I
(34:29):
was in a meditative state and Iwas like, oh my god, uh, why
don't you call this and this andthis?
And there were like four a-listactors.
It's like you have a, you know,it's like you have a meditation
.
And then, uh, you would say you, you say okay, uh, julia
roberts and reese witherspoon,and, and like nicole kidman you
know, this was my dream, but inthe Arab world.
(34:49):
And I was like, yeah, why don'twe do it?
And we call it Her Story Films.
And then, literally, I called upMunazaki.
Munazaki is maybe theequivalent of Nicole Kidman to
the West Arab world.
And I told her about my ideaand she was like, yeah, right,
sounds amazing, I'm in.
I was like, wow, that was real,just like my idea.
(35:16):
And she was like, yeah, right,sounds amazing, I'm in.
I was like, wow, that was real.
Oh, my god, just like that.
I was like, okay, wow, I wouldhave never, you know, like
manifested this in my wildestdreams.
But, um, it happened and here weare and and yeah, so it's like
the way I evolved, it's, it'sthe way the businesses and the
work and what I'm doing evolved,and so many things.
When I, like, sat with myself,do I want to die doing this or
do I want to die doing that?
So I got rid of many, manythings that don't serve me
(35:39):
anymore and that I don't want onmy journey and I said, thank
you, you're amazing, but we'renot, you're not coming with, you
know.
So it's always about becausethe thing about choices I mean,
you have to make these choices,but in the end, I believe that
there's a path, and I always hadthis feeling as a child that
(36:04):
God has something really, reallybig for me and I just have to
reach it.
So this was like a threadthroughout all of my life, you
know, since I was a little child.
It's weird and it sounds crazy.
It's the first time I say itout loud, not in front of the
mirror, but I always had thisfeeling and whenever something
(36:24):
like that happens, I was like,oh, wow, this is it.
What's next.
You know I have this childishexcitement about okay.
So yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
A couple of questions , May.
So why this time did you decideto have a co-founder?
Because I saw that when I wasreading up her story films.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
And why now?
I think that in the past 20years I've worked so much on
myself and I learned so muchabout myself, so it's much, much
easier to um, to have a partneror to to to enter any form of
relationship when you're older,you know, because you enter it
with a different mindset.
You're a different person.
It's like, uh, it's likegetting married at 20 or at 40.
(37:10):
Would your choices at 20 be thesame at 30 or at 40?
Or it's like buying a car Is itthe same car that you buy at 20
, at 30, at 40?
You get what I mean.
You're a completely differentperson.
So you're not the same personyou were.
Maybe you're not the sameperson that would have certain
insecurities the same person youwere.
(37:32):
Maybe you're not the sameperson that would have certain
insecurities.
So you would not be able totalk it out or to hash it out
with a business partner.
And maybe now you can.
You know it's like a differentsituation.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Is it the government of Netherlands that is, or is it
an agency in Netherlands thatis partnering with you on this?
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Film Incubator is proudly funded by the Embassy of
the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
They signed three years withHer Story Films and we're doing
two Incubator editions in thosethree years, with the outcome of
six short films that arepressing gender issues, that
(38:10):
hopefully are written anddirected by Egyptian filmmakers
and that hopefully will go todifferent festivals and allow us
to tell our stories.
So we own the narrative and wetell our own stories instead of
having stories told about us.
That's also a very, veryimportant point and thread
(38:34):
throughout my life.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Apart from the work that you do, still with a focus
on women, did you create asupport network for women in
Egypt?
I was reading.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
It's quite a funny story because this network it's
a network of femaleentrepreneurs and it's called.
It translates into when are yougoing to make us happy?
And it's always used in thecontext of getting married.
You know, if somebody would betold this, like all of the older
aunts on a wedding, they wouldlike ask this question if you're
(39:08):
not married.
So when the magazine turnedlike 10 years, we used it as our
campaign tagline and we wouldhave, like in cartoons, this
question being asked in a speechbubble and we have this posh
pinup girl would reply and sayI'm already happy, I'm the
youngest manager in my family,I'm already happy, I already
(39:29):
opened a branch of my company indubai and stuff like that.
So we turned something reallyannoying into into into fun
content.
And then it turned into a videowhere, like we, we gathered 26
entrepreneurs to give someadvice to other women on how to
do it.
And then it turned into aconference and then it turned
into a network where we havelike over 120 businesswomen,
(39:53):
entrepreneurs supporting eachother.
We have like a group andsomebody would post I'm looking
for an HR executive, 10 wouldlike post stuff like that, you
know.
So this is kind of the businesssisterhood that we have.
Wow, that is amazing.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
The business sisterhood that we have.
Yeah, wow, that is amazing.
Thank you for sharing that.
So, in the spirit of reflectingas we round up, I normally ask
my guests two things at the enda reflection and some advice.
We like advice here.
Just in reflecting on all theseamazing businesses and things
that you've built over the last18 years, what would you say has
(40:30):
been some of the most impactfulthings that you I know that
you're still achieving?
I get that sense that we'restill building, we're still
going.
But just looking back, what aresome things that you're very
proud of that you feel this hasbeen impactful and grateful that
I was able to do that?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I think that the fact that we survived this very
tough industry for so many yearswithout really compromising
myself, without compromisingthings I believe in this is
something I'm very, very proudof.
I'm proud of the fact that Ilearned to prioritize what's
really important in life.
So this is something I'm I'mproud of.
(41:10):
It's not about because I don'treally measure success in terms
of money or or being around andstuff like that.
It's for me, about about theimpact I would have on my
surrounding.
For me if it's sometimes reallyfunny because a few years back
I had like I was interviewingsomeone and and for a job, and
she was a fresh graduate and shewas like I grew up reading your
(41:33):
magazine, so I was like, oh wow, I I'm kind of offended because
that makes me really old,because you're like really old,
and I was like, oh wow, this issomething, wow this.
I was like, oh wow, this issomething, wow.
I was really like wow.
And then I said I'm so happybecause I do believe that we
have this kind of responsibility, because when I used to read
(41:55):
magazines, I used not anythingenough of all of these girls
that make it to glossy magazinesor are in the limelight.
So all of the media I consumedwhen I was younger, it was
really toxic for me and it mademe feel less than it never
(42:18):
empowered me.
It never gave me like a reallynice female role model to look
up to and to say, oh my God, Ican be her.
So when, when fast forward somany years later, a young girl
says that she grew up with itand she felt the opposite, that
was like, oh my God, I canliterally die now.
You know, this was this kind ofthat that made my my year.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
That's amazing.
So, in terms of advice, whatadvice would you give other
women who are buildingbusinesses across the continent?
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Usually, I think literally the best formula is
look for something that you love, do it passionately and
vigorously and hope that itloves you back and then give it
your all.
And then when you see it lovesyou back, then it it your all.
And then when you see it lovesyou back, then it's great.
If it doesn't love you back,kick it out, because not
everything is meant to be foreveryone at at any given time.
(43:13):
And don't take yourself tooseriously.
Life is too short, you canstill do tomorrow.
I always thought, no, I have todo it, I have to do today.
No, you don't have to do, youcan still do it tomorrow.
Tomorrow is another day, it'sokay.
The world is not going to.
No, you don't have to do it,you can still do it tomorrow.
Tomorrow is another day, it'sokay.
The world is not going to endif you don't submit it on time.
The world is not going to endif this pitch is not perfect
enough.
This is actually a note to self.
(43:34):
It's more a note to myselfrather than advice, because I'm
the last person to give advice,but these are the things that I
think are important, that Iwould like to share.
And don't take yourself tooseriously.
I mean, it's just.
You know, we're literally just.
It's so insignificant, whateverwe do is so insignificant at
the end of the day, and it's notreally what matters.
(43:56):
And what we do is not who weare.
This is something I really hadto learn, because whenever I do
something and it's rejected orit faces negative criticism or
anything because art is sosubjective and work is so
subjective, it's not me beingrejected, it's just something
that I did and it's what I do.
It's not who I am.
(44:17):
This is very, very importantand it was something I had to
learn the hard way.
And, yeah, always evaluate ifyou're running into the right
direction it's not always theright direction and have fun.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Have fun, yeah, have fun.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
If it's not fun anymore, then no, there's no
point.
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Thank you so much, May.
This has been a greatconversation.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Thank you so much for listening.
If you're not alreadysubscribed, please do so on
apple, spotify or wherever youget your podcast, and don't
forget to leave us a review sowe know how we're doing.
I'm akego okoye and you havebeen listening to african
business stories.
Hi there and welcome to another episode of African
Business Stories.
Africa is the only region inthe world where more women than
men choose to be entrepreneurs.
What this says to me is thatthe story of business in Africa
is the story of the Africanbusiness woman.
So we are on a journey ofdiscovery to find these women
(00:23):
and tell their stories.
So we're on a journey ofdiscovery to find these women
and tell their stories.
On the show, we will hear fromfemale innovators and
entrepreneurs building andrunning businesses in Africa.
They will share the highs andlows of their entrepreneurial
journey and lessons learnedalong the way.
Some of these women you mayknow, and many you may not, but
(00:48):
I assure you that all theirstories are inspiring in their
own right.
My hope is that these storieswill inspire you to reach for
your dreams and leave a legacyfor generations to come.
It makes such a big differenceto us if you can rate, review
and share our episodes.
You can do this mainly on ApplePodcasts, and you can find us
on all podcast platforms Ifyou're in Africa.
(01:09):
Spotify is now available, socheck us out there and don't
forget to rate, review and share.
On today's episode, I chat withMay Abdel-Essam, an Egyptian
serial entrepreneur whose careerin media spans almost two
decades.
She's the founder and managingdirector of what Women Want
(01:33):
magazine, media and More Agency,mindful Publications and, most
recently, co-founder of HerStory Films.
May was born in Egypt, raisedin Germany and returned to Egypt
as a teenager.
She describes how a frustrationwith the content of magazines
as a young lady led her to startwhat Women Want magazine.
(01:56):
How other companies impressedby the marketing of the
publication approached her foradvertising and activation
campaigns.
This led to the creation of thepublication approached her for
advertising and activationcampaigns.
This led to the creation of themedia agency.
18 years later, her businessescontinue to thrive and she's now
focused on empowering otherfemale creatives through a new
(02:18):
venture Her Story Films.
Let's get into it.
Welcome to African BusinessStories.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Thank you, very nice to be on board.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I wanted to start very quickly with just getting
to know you a little.
I know that you were born inEgypt, but you were actually
raised in Germany, which is so,so interesting.
So how did that all happen?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, my parents used to live in Germany and, of
course, I didn't have much sayin this.
I was born in Egypt, but I wasraised in Germany.
I moved to Egypt when I was 16.
So, yeah, so my first, my realsocialization, my upbringing,
the voice of my inner child, ofmy dreams, and all of that is
(03:03):
actually in German.
Wow.
So what was that experiencelike?
Growing up in germany?
Anywhere you're planted, youjust grow, you know.
I mean, it's not much of achoice where you grow up, where
your parents are, where you liveand all of that.
So, um, I think it waseverything I knew back then.
I knew Egypt, my home country,from holidays, from the summers
(03:27):
basically.
Kids of immigrants who grow upin the West usually know their
home country from summerholidays.
It's all about summer memoriesand lots of relatives and
staying up late and getting tobe spoiled by grandparents and
all of that.
So this was what I knew backthen, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, you grew up with dual languages.
You were learning Arabic andGerman at the same time.
Yes, I grew up bilingual.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It was very important for my parents that we speak
our native tongue fluently, thatwe don't go return in summers
and speak with an accent orspeak like this broken arabic.
So it was very, very importantfor them that we're native in
both languages.
The, the country that we livein, that is our home and, at the
(04:17):
same time, the country where wecome from, our roots and and
language and culture is is verymuch a a way to give roots to
children who are raised in acountry that is not theirs.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
So what brought you back to Egypt at 16?
You said you moved back at 16.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yes, it wasn't my choice I mean, as a kid, it's
never your choice.
It was a decision.
Actually, it wasn't a realfamily decision.
It was more the decision of mymother, who was living with us
in Germany and she didn't likeit.
She didn't get used to theweather, to the lack of sunshine
(04:56):
, to the language, to the wholeculture.
It wasn't hers, and I think shewas in her early forties when
she said I'm not going to dothis anymore and literally
packed me in a suitcase and putme on a plane and said we're
going to do this differently now.
So yeah, it wasn't really mydecision.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So, coming back, what was that like for you as a 16
year old?
You're a teenager, you'reliving your best life and you
have to leave your friends andgo back to Egypt.
What was that like, I tell?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
you, I wasn't living my best life because I was in an
age.
I was at an age where you startconflicting with the own
culture and the culture you'rein.
I was a very rough teenager andI was always a troublemaker.
So it was this notion that mymom always thought back home,
(05:50):
everything is better, the grassis greener, you know, on the
other side.
This was this notion, so for meit was like a fresh start
somewhere else.
I was extremely lucky.
I got into the German school inCairo and initially, suddenly I
met people who are like me, whoare either coming from mixed
families they're half German,half Egyptian or they're
(06:13):
children of diplomats, sothey're used to moving around
and it was very, verymulticultural and international
in a different way, because Iwas more at home, because we
come from from the countries isreflects the same culture that
my mom would like me to be morenative in.
(06:34):
And suddenly you know peoplelook, look like you.
I was the only brown kid in myclass and suddenly you have like
people who look like me and whoget it when I say this is fine,
this is not fine.
So it was actually quite arefreshing experience.
I loved it.
I had a great time.
I connected very, very easilyand it was a very, very smooth
(06:56):
transition.
I never would have expectedthat.
I think I was really lucky thatit was and I kind of found my
place.
It was and I kind of found myplace, which I had been able to
in my first 16 years.
I mean, how many teenagers knowwhere they belong or find their
place in such an early age?
So for me it was actually.
(07:17):
It was a good thing thathappened.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
That is such a great story, so how did you then
decide that you wanted to studydrama in Berlin?
Speaker 2 (07:51):
but the spot at university.
I was on a waiting list.
I would have had to wait forlike six semesters and my mom my
mom did not want me to go, butmy dad used to live in Germany.
He came back later on after heretired, so he wanted me to come
back to Germany.
And my mom wanted, wanted me tolive in Germany.
He came back later on after heretired, so he wanted me to come
back to Germany.
And my mom wanted me to stay inCairo.
(08:11):
And so drama said I can come andstudy in like six semesters
literally like two or threeyears, that I have to wait.
And so I was looking for otherthings fashion, design, cinema,
film, da da da.
And then my mom said there'ssomething called mass
communication.
It's quite nice, take a look.
So I took a look, so this isactually what happened.
(08:33):
And she said while you'rewaiting, why don't you start?
I was like, yeah, I mean, youcan't bum around like for six
semesters and do nothing or workat McDonald's.
So I said, why not?
And I enrolled and, funnyenough, I was always going to to
go back.
But then I met my now husbandand we started dating at 19.
(08:55):
So it's always a guy you know,so literally it's it's fate that
got me back to Egypt and it'sfate that kept me in Egypt.
And yeah, yeah, I think it'sbeen always in the books, so it
wasn't really really my choice,it was something that just came
up and kind of you know thatdiverted my path into a certain
direction that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So so you, you go to university and you study mass
communication.
What were job opportunitieslike back in those days?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
let me go a step.
I was never good at school.
School was never interestingfor me, you know, because I used
to.
I used to actually um, put allof my energy in okay, these
subjects I can ace, solow-hanging fruit, and then
these subjects I would have toinvest this amount of time to
get a B.
But if I get a C I can let youknow this my energy used to go
(09:46):
into that direction, into how,to, how to, you know, harvest
low-hanging fruit, never, never,reach for more.
Because it wasn't interestingto me, because it was socially.
I loved school.
Academically I hated it.
It was, in my eyes, one sizefits all doesn't, doesn't work.
It was a waste of my timecompletely.
(10:08):
So when I went to university andI studied, actually, something
I really like, I aced it.
I was, I graduated with highesthonors and it was something
that came so easily and it made,it made so much sense and it
was just duh, it's so easy, it's, it's a no-brainer, because it
was some.
For the first time I wasstudying something that I find
interesting, that I completelyunderstand and that that's just
(10:30):
common sense to me.
So the four years passed very,very easily and for me I was
like oh wow, this is great, thisis what.
This is basically what I wantto do.
This is all aboutcommunications, about marketing,
about having ideas, aboutgetting them across, about
pitching an idea and convincingsomebody on the other end of the
(10:51):
line to actually buy into youridea or to approve it or
something like that.
Because when I was younger I waslike 16, I used to talk to my
friend Nada.
Back then I was like when Igrew up, I didn't know what an
agency is, I didn't have theterminology, and I used to say I
want to get paid for my ideas.
(11:12):
I want to have this companywhere I can sell ideas and
people pay me for my ideas.
So that's basically something II had in my head and like fast
forward, uh, fast forward to now, when I think of it.
Actually, I do get paid for myideas.
So, okay, check done, great.
So, um.
(11:33):
So starting university is whenI discovered that if you put
your energy into something thatyou really really like and love
and are passionate about, itdoesn't feel like work.
So this is where I had thismoment.
I was like okay, this is what Iwant.
I want to be doing.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Then you know you were talking and like three
times you said it wasn't mychoice, it wasn't my choice, it
wasn't my choice.
So would you say that this waskind of the first time where you
chose.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, I think, the first time where I chose.
I still believe that we don'treally choose, you know, I think
that or in hindsight, you know,when I look at my life or the
past years, I completely believein divine intervention and I
believe that while of course youdo have a choice I mean you
decide to go right or left Ofcourse you do have a choice on a
(12:26):
superficial level, but on adeeper level, I really believe
that everything I chose, or Ididn't, either was or wasn't for
me.
So I was always, you know,directed through divine
intervention to a place I shouldbe.
You know, sometimes it's nearserendipity that something pops
up and you're at the right timeat the right place.
(12:46):
Other people call it destiny,other people call it divine
intervention.
You know, whatever rocksanybody's boat, but I believe
that sometimes things that aremeant to be yours find you.
That doesn't mean that youdon't make find you.
That doesn't mean that youdon't make decisions.
That doesn't mean that youdon't work hard, that doesn't
mean that you don't give yourbest.
(13:06):
But I still believe thatsometimes we think we make
choices, conscious choices, andsometimes they're just not
things, and if you allow them tohappen, sometimes really
beautiful things happen so, justcoming back to your story, uh,
so you, you finish university,you, you actually find something
(13:29):
that you love to do and it'sit's no longer feels like work.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
So when you then have to go out and and find find a
job, it's also funny because Inever really looked for a job,
the jobs always found me.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So again because my first job I used to during
college.
I used to intern in a marketingresearch firm.
I used to work with thempart-time, I was their intern
and as soon as I finished mystudies, they they offered me a
job.
So I had a job, you know, andthen I graduated I think I was
(14:06):
like maybe 21, 22, something inthat range, and I was working
full-time until I was 26.
And in these five, six years Ihad so many jobs because every
year I was never stable in aplace.
I was always working very, veryintensely.
And then I reach a point wheresomebody offers me another job
(14:27):
and I was like, oh wow, this islike way more than I than I make
.
Maybe it's time for a change.
Because when you're younger,like six months feels like
elephant years, or a year feelslike elephant years.
Now, in my 40s, I was like,yeah, I need another year to
think about it.
You know like crazy, crazyterms, yeah.
(14:49):
So I kept on going from onenice job to another and my
longest maybe was like two yearsor two years and a half, and I
would always find that I'm that,that I'm bored.
You know, it's like somethingis is missing and, um, I, I do
the job.
Well, I get promoted, I excel,I do this and I do that and then
(15:10):
suddenly I'm I'm completelybored.
I think that I'm using I wasnot using my whole capacity.
You know, it's like what do I dothe rest of the day?
And yeah, and this took on fora while, until I started the
magazine, I was still working ina job.
(15:31):
I had like a small disagreementwith my back then manager and I
was like you know what, i'm'mgonna quit and I'm gonna focus
on on the magazine.
And this is basically what Idid, because it would have been.
I was into um, I had issued thefirst two issues and I was
still working, and then I quitum, took an office and yeah, and
(15:53):
then almost 20 years passedsince that day so what made made
you start the magazine?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
You were already in a dress, so this is you being
bored and wanting to dosomething extra?
I'm assuming.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, some people approached me.
They wanted to work on a guidefor women da, da, da, stuff like
that and then I kind of turnedit into a magazine.
I was like, yeah, why not?
I used to do the schoolmagazine and here and there and
stuff like that and it's mystudy, it's what I know, it's
what I like, I've always been awriter and writing in a school
(16:27):
magazine and stuff like that andthere's nothing really that
resembles me that I can read.
I mean, all of the women'smagazines are like very glossy
and it's all about glitz andglam and usually they don't
represent people who look likeus.
They're all like.
I mean, I grew up in the 90s,so size zero was something that
basically you know, ruined myrelationship with food until now
(16:53):
.
So they never really lookedlike me, neither in Germany or
even when I moved to Egypt.
They still didn't look like me.
Because you have all themagazines still trying to get
the blonde, bleached, skinnybabe on the cover and stuff like
that.
There's always been so manymixed messages.
You know, page five, how tolove yourself, page 10, how to
(17:14):
lose that mommy pooch, and thenpage 15, how to get a nose job,
and then page 20?
How to keep the guy.
Is that so many mixed messages?
What is it?
Should I love myself, get anose job or change myself for
the guy?
Just give me one clear messageso I can understand.
So I think that was a littlebit of of how it all started.
(17:35):
And then we yeah things youknow just got a life of its own.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
So the people who approached you, were they
approaching?
Were they going to fund themagazine, or how did you fund?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
No, they actually it has it had an.
It was an idea we were going toall co-fund and we're not
partners anymore.
That was really literally athing of 18 years ago and no,
the magazine.
I've never, ever had an investor.
All of my businesses areliterally bootstrapped.
I've never had an investor.
Partnership is so so, so, sovery difficult because I have a
(18:11):
certain moral compass or like anethical standard that I've set
very, very high for me and andoftentimes I would always say,
if I had a partner at this stage, that person would think I'm a
complete nutcase and take theway away the company from me
because, for example, I don'ttake certain advertisers.
I would not take.
(18:32):
I mean, you have all of the thebeauty, plastic surgery
industry.
They're like lining up toadvertise with us because we
have high credibility among ourtarget audience and I would
never, ever take money orcommunicate on any of my
platforms that you do need anose job.
I mean, if you want to go getone, go ahead.
(18:54):
It's great respect, but it'snot something I'm going to sell
to younger girls.
So, um, so yeah, so it.
It it's always has beenbootstrapped.
It always has been uh, my ownmoney, my own risk.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Um, uh, yeah and how have you seen that grow?
What's your readership like?
Over the years it's been moreover 15 years.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
The magazine is turned 18 years last march.
Yes, so congratulations, thankyou.
I think the first 10 years I'vebeen just running, running,
running, because you have this,this, this hustling mentality.
You know, you're just, you're ahustler.
You have to like, take carehere and there, and oh my god,
how I'm gonna pay rent andsalaries, and here and there,
and oh my god, how I'm gonna payrent and salaries, and here and
(19:39):
there, and stuff like that.
And then suddenly, after 10years, you realize, okay, we're
not, like, we're not a startup,so you don't, you can't continue
doing business with the startupmentality.
You need to realize that you'reat a certain point and you need
to start behaving accordingly.
That was a learning process,because you have this, this
mentality, like, okay, I'm goingto bring this from home and I'm
(19:59):
going to like bring the printerfrom home, and you know this
hustle mentality.
And then you reach a point.
No, this, this is a business.
It has to generate income, ithas to be able to able to scale,
it has to have certainattributes.
So it took a while.
So the first 10 years it's likerunning, running, running,
trying to to stay afloat and tobe relevant, and all of this and
(20:19):
then suddenly you realize, ohOK, let's just take a break and
just like, take a look andreevaluate, reassess.
Are we running into the rightdirection?
Is it this, is this what youreally want?
And stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
And you also started another magazine in that time.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
I know it's been discontinued started another
magazine in that time I knowit's been discontinued the
travel mag.
It was um.
Back in 2010.
It we launched in 2010, rightbefore um two issues before the
egyptian revolution in in 2011,jan 2011 and it was, back then,
the only travel magazine in town.
It was doing really great.
(20:56):
I personally loved it.
I love traveling, I love theimagery and for me, it was it
was a second magazine.
So all of the things that Ilearned, the mistakes I made
with the first magazine it waslike you know, instead of
starting here, you started there.
So it was like a really nicerollout.
I loved it.
And then the revolution happenedand and then, of course, you
had huge economic problems andthere was for a long time, there
(21:23):
was no tourism and inbound,outbound and stuff like that.
So I literally printed thefourth issue out of my own
pocket for nostalgic reasons,because I want the.
2011 was such a glorious date.
I wanted to have it on thecover printed and all of that.
But I had to pull the plugbecause it was about surviving
(21:47):
and for me, what women wantmagazine had to be the one that
survived.
So I had to pull the plug onthat.
Yeah, and back then, actually2010,.
I had founded a publishinghouse called Mindful
Publications.
It was in Cyprus back then andI was going to start to publish
books.
And there's a book of a friendof mine, a novel she had written
(22:11):
back then and that was supposedto be the first one.
Sense of Musk is the name.
But I lost so much money duringthe revolution and all of that,
so I had to tell her go ahead,you have to find another
publisher or self-publish orwhatever.
I will not be able to do itbecause I lost money and I have
to make sure that we, you know,you have to get rid of any
(22:33):
excess and you have to make surethat you stay light and agile
and float through this financialcrisis.
So I had to shut down thepublishing house and all of that
.
Ten years later, in 2020, Ifounded it again.
It's based in Egypt and westarted publishing books.
(22:58):
So this is what I mean with's,not with a divine intervention.
It really happens at the righttime, because I want so, I
always want, I'm very fast pacedand I want so many things and I
try to and I do so many thingsat the same time, but this was
just not.
The time wasn't right.
2010 wasn't right for me inthat stage to publish books um
(23:21):
10 years or 12 years later.
It just makes more sense.
It was.
It was different, it was adifferent experience.
It was a different financialstanding that I had.
It was a different uh networkthat I had.
It was a different safety netthat I have now versus in 2010,
which which made it easier forme to do that 10 years later.
(23:43):
So sometimes it just takes adecade for the right time to
just come.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
At some point in between Mindful publications and
what Women Want magazine, youstarted a media agency, so talk
to us a bit about that.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
That was actually also almost 18 years ago.
Thing is that I also studiedmarketing and all of that, so
it's always been a thing.
So I started doing differentactivations marketing
activations to promote themagazine.
I would ask brands with likereally low budget to sponsor it,
and the idea was always topromote the magazine.
You know, I would have like Iget an outdoor kitchen on a very
(24:22):
known beach the North Coastduring August, so everybody
would be there and I would getback then a very famous
celebrity TV chef to come andcook and would ask sponsors to
pay for the ingredients andstuff like that, and the idea
was always to promote themagazine.
So people would come, brandswould approach me and would ask
me OK, could you like work on aproposal and do activations but
(24:45):
that are not related to themagazine, that are related to
our brands purely.
I was like, yeah, why not?
Does it pay?
Let's do it.
So this is basically how ithappened and it allowed me to be
autonomous in the magazinebecause media and more the
agency would bring in money andat times where the magazine
(25:06):
would not make any money becauseit's very difficult for a
publication that relies onadvertising and and and things
like that way before the socialmedia age.
I mean, we're there since 2006,so you had good months and bad
months and and it's it's notlike a very profitable industry.
If you do it my way, you know.
(25:26):
If you do it the other way andbecomes this glitz and glam and
we say anything just to to tosell more ads, then of course
it's it's profitable.
So media more gave me fulfilledthe, the need that I had for
people to pay me money for myideas.
So initially that was a goodthing and it was a source of
income.
That's commercial.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
that makes sense yeah , I've seen some of your clients
.
You have some incredibleclients.
I saw astZeneca on the list.
You know Johnson and JohnsonVodafone.
That business ran off and hasbeen very successful.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Thank God I can't complain.
I mean back again, if I go backto 2009,.
We started going into tech anddoing websites and all of that
which was back then a neededthing in the Egyptian market.
And 2010, we started offeringour clients social media
management.
It was weird back then to go toa company and tell them you pay
(26:20):
us money and we manage yourFacebook.
The IT does that.
You had the IT person postweird cats and dog pictures and
stuff like that for a company.
So in 2010, we had our firstsocial media client and then the
revolution happened and thesocial media boom happened and
(26:42):
then it was very relevant whatwe're doing.
So I think 2010 to 2016 was ourpeak.
We had loads of FMCG clients.
We used to do most work forNestle and all of its brands
Nescafe and stuff like that wasthe peak.
It was really a peak that wehad.
(27:02):
We started a production houseproducing digital content online
.
We would have the Germans comehere and stay for a few months
with us and produce all of theirglobal assets and stuff like
that.
So it was a really, really goodtime and it was also a peak for
the agency.
And it was a very bad time forme, because I was completely
burnt out of doing so manythings at the same time.
(27:22):
And it's a very digital, it's avery dynamic industry.
You're, you're, you're onlineall the time.
You uh get a complaint.
Uh, saturday morning, fridaymorning, and stuff, you, you're
alert all the time.
And and back then, 2014, 2015,I was already burning out and I
burned out so many youngerpeople who work in the creative
(27:44):
industry along with me and thenI was like, no, this is not,
this is not how how I want tolive and this is not the
lifestyle I signed up for.
This is not what I want formyself, this is not how I want
to live and this is not thelifestyle I signed up for.
This is not what I want formyself and this is not what I
want for my team.
It was a long process.
Back then, I started to likefeng shui, my life and see okay,
which client is draining us,which client is not making the
(28:04):
money we should be doing?
We started to put boundaries.
Okay, we're not doing this onthe weekend.
If we're going to do this onthe weekend, it's an extra
charge.
We would hire somebody else todo it, stuff like that.
And it was a long, long processto actually move from.
Back then I wanted to be likethe biggest social media agency
in Egypt, and here and therethat was, you know, like crazy
(28:26):
stuff.
You always think you want to bethe biggest, the best and all
of this.
And then you realize there's ahefty, hefty price tag and if it
costs my kidney, I don't wantit, and if it costs my mental
health, I don't want it, becauseat the end of the day, I mean,
it's just advertising.
You know, it's not like I'msaving Palestine or I'm creating
(28:46):
a cure for cancer.
It's something very, veryshallow and it's something we do
for fun.
And so I started to change it.
Now, my team we never had nineto five hours.
I mean, you had nine to fiveand then you leave whenever the
job is done and then no, I wantto attend my kids, I want to
take my kids to practice, I wantto still do homework, I want to
(29:11):
be there for bedtime, da da, da.
And then it took.
It took a while, but then itwas a decision taken.
We started to actually onlywork with clients who we
extremely respect, we love theirproducts, we get along with,
who have some some sort of apurpose.
We do a lot for UN women, we doa lot for for USAID, we do a
lot for the National Council forWomen and stuff like that.
So suddenly it's also just cameinto our direction that we have
(29:34):
this certain expertise when itcomes to women and family and
creating content and stuff likethat.
And then we started attractingthe people or the clients we
really want to work with.
So what I'm saying becausesometimes you make a choice and
you're not really aware of ofthe beautiful things you're
going to be attracting, uh, whenyou move boundaries.
(29:56):
So it was also a process that Istarted doing right at the peak
because, um, we were at thepeak and things look good, but
you're not really happy and andto enjoy because you're so
exhausted and and give melimitations and no, this is not
what I want to do that is sointeresting, you know, because a
lot of times you're right,we're chasing success, but at
(30:17):
the expense of our soul, andsometimes you know it.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
It's important to stop and and take stock of
what's really important, and Ithink a lot of things have
happened in life recently thatthat make us think about what is
important and how we balancethis desire to succeed and what
does success look like, fromfamily to work.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
So that's very interesting.
So you make that balance, youset your boundaries, you attract
the clients that you actuallywant, actually actually want to
work with.
But then May doesn't stop.
She goes on and starts morebusinesses.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Yes, yeah, yeah, it's trauma response.
I'm sure it's trauma response.
All of this is trauma response,so yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
You now take the zero focus on on women and giving
back and empowering other womenand we come to mindful
publication, where you pick upthis publication business again
and focus on women andpublishing books.
I don't know that I know anyother company that does that.
(31:25):
Maybe they are, but at leastnot on the continent.
So what made you pick that upagain and just focus exclusively
on women writers?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I think it's always like this really nice puzzle
piece, okay.
And then when I wanted to putthis puzzle piece in my puzzle
10 years ago, it wasn't theright time, it wasn't the right
fit, you know, and back then theidea wasn't about women and all
of that.
It was just, oh, my god, my,this is really great, I want to
(31:53):
do it.
I love this book and and myfriend wrote it and stuff like
that.
And then, when it happened atthe right time, I was at the
place, uh, in in life and in, inin my experience, in my, in my,
my journey, where I this makesmore sense because this is
something that I've been doingmy whole life, even consciously
(32:15):
or subconsciously, and I reallyfeel that this is what I want to
be doing.
If I can give my platforms ormy access or my network to other
women to create art or to gettheir message across, then this
is a win for everyone.
So I said, okay, this makessense, and out of this came the
(32:37):
idea of Her Story Films.
Her Story Films is the latestbaby and it's a film production
company that is exclusivelydoing capacity building for
female filmmakers and producingfemale filmmakers.
We currently have developed 20.
We had a competition for a filmincubator.
(32:59):
Over 140 female directorsapplied.
20 were selected by a selectioncommittee, by a selection
committee.
Their short films weredeveloped in an incubator and
actually were announcing thefinal six projects today or
tomorrow and next week we willbe choosing three short films
(33:26):
from these six and they will beproduced after the summer.
And for me it was like a naturalevolution of of what I've, what
I'm doing, because I'm astoryteller.
I always see myself, I've beena storyteller all my life in
different, different forms of of, of different platforms,
different media and all of that.
(33:46):
And I always saw myself as, sawmyself as somebody who builds
bridges, because my connectionbetween the East and the West
Germany and the Western cultureand our Arab Oriental culture,
so I've always seen myself aslike an ambassador of a sort.
So it kind of came naturallythat the story is in writing and
(34:08):
then it's in a book and thenit's in visual media and so on
and so forth.
So it was just a naturalextension.
The twist here is that for thefirst time in many, many years,
I do have a partner, andactually it's quite a crazy
story.
I was having a massage.
I always say it's a meditation.
It sounds so much cooler, butactually it was a massage and I
(34:29):
was in a meditative state and Iwas like, oh my god, uh, why
don't you call this and this andthis?
And there were like four a-listactors.
It's like you have a, you know,it's like you have a meditation
.
And then, uh, you would say you, you say okay, uh, julia
roberts and reese witherspoon,and, and like nicole kidman you
know, this was my dream, but inthe Arab world.
(34:49):
And I was like, yeah, why don'twe do it?
And we call it Her Story Films.
And then, literally, I called upMunazaki.
Munazaki is maybe theequivalent of Nicole Kidman to
the West Arab world.
And I told her about my ideaand she was like, yeah, right,
sounds amazing, I'm in.
I was like, wow, that was real,just like my idea.
(35:16):
And she was like, yeah, right,sounds amazing, I'm in.
I was like, wow, that was real.
Oh, my god, just like that.
I was like, okay, wow, I wouldhave never, you know, like
manifested this in my wildestdreams.
But, um, it happened and here weare and and yeah, so it's like
the way I evolved, it's, it'sthe way the businesses and the
work and what I'm doing evolved,and so many things.
When I, like, sat with myself,do I want to die doing this or
do I want to die doing that?
So I got rid of many, manythings that don't serve me
(35:39):
anymore and that I don't want onmy journey and I said, thank
you, you're amazing, but we'renot, you're not coming with, you
know.
So it's always about becausethe thing about choices I mean,
you have to make these choices,but in the end, I believe that
there's a path, and I always hadthis feeling as a child that
(36:04):
God has something really, reallybig for me and I just have to
reach it.
So this was like a threadthroughout all of my life, you
know, since I was a little child.
It's weird and it sounds crazy.
It's the first time I say itout loud, not in front of the
mirror, but I always had thisfeeling and whenever something
(36:24):
like that happens, I was like,oh, wow, this is it.
What's next.
You know I have this childishexcitement about okay.
So yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
A couple of questions , May.
So why this time did you decideto have a co-founder?
Because I saw that when I wasreading up her story films.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
And why now?
I think that in the past 20years I've worked so much on
myself and I learned so muchabout myself, so it's much, much
easier to um, to have a partneror to to to enter any form of
relationship when you're older,you know, because you enter it
with a different mindset.
You're a different person.
It's like, uh, it's likegetting married at 20 or at 40.
(37:10):
Would your choices at 20 be thesame at 30 or at 40?
Or it's like buying a car Is itthe same car that you buy at 20
, at 30, at 40?
You get what I mean.
You're a completely differentperson.
So you're not the same personyou were.
Maybe you're not the sameperson that would have certain
insecurities the same person youwere.
(37:32):
Maybe you're not the sameperson that would have certain
insecurities.
So you would not be able totalk it out or to hash it out
with a business partner.
And maybe now you can.
You know it's like a differentsituation.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Is it the government of Netherlands that is, or is it
an agency in Netherlands thatis partnering with you on this?
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Film Incubator is proudly funded by the Embassy of
the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
They signed three years withHer Story Films and we're doing
two Incubator editions in thosethree years, with the outcome of
six short films that arepressing gender issues, that
(38:10):
hopefully are written anddirected by Egyptian filmmakers
and that hopefully will go todifferent festivals and allow us
to tell our stories.
So we own the narrative and wetell our own stories instead of
having stories told about us.
That's also a very, veryimportant point and thread
(38:34):
throughout my life.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Apart from the work that you do, still with a focus
on women, did you create asupport network for women in
Egypt?
I was reading.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
It's quite a funny story because this network it's
a network of femaleentrepreneurs and it's called.
It translates into when are yougoing to make us happy?
And it's always used in thecontext of getting married.
You know, if somebody would betold this, like all of the older
aunts on a wedding, they wouldlike ask this question if you're
(39:08):
not married.
So when the magazine turnedlike 10 years, we used it as our
campaign tagline and we wouldhave, like in cartoons, this
question being asked in a speechbubble and we have this posh
pinup girl would reply and sayI'm already happy, I'm the
youngest manager in my family,I'm already happy, I already
(39:29):
opened a branch of my company indubai and stuff like that.
So we turned something reallyannoying into into into fun
content.
And then it turned into a videowhere, like we, we gathered 26
entrepreneurs to give someadvice to other women on how to
do it.
And then it turned into aconference and then it turned
into a network where we havelike over 120 businesswomen,
(39:53):
entrepreneurs supporting eachother.
We have like a group andsomebody would post I'm looking
for an HR executive, 10 wouldlike post stuff like that, you
know.
So this is kind of the businesssisterhood that we have.
Wow, that is amazing.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
The business sisterhood that we have.
Yeah, wow, that is amazing.
Thank you for sharing that.
So, in the spirit of reflectingas we round up, I normally ask
my guests two things at the enda reflection and some advice.
We like advice here.
Just in reflecting on all theseamazing businesses and things
that you've built over the last18 years, what would you say has
(40:30):
been some of the most impactfulthings that you I know that
you're still achieving?
I get that sense that we'restill building, we're still
going.
But just looking back, what aresome things that you're very
proud of that you feel this hasbeen impactful and grateful that
I was able to do that?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
I think that the fact that we survived this very
tough industry for so many yearswithout really compromising
myself, without compromisingthings I believe in this is
something I'm very, very proudof.
I'm proud of the fact that Ilearned to prioritize what's
really important in life.
So this is something I'm I'mproud of.
(41:10):
It's not about because I don'treally measure success in terms
of money or or being around andstuff like that.
It's for me, about about theimpact I would have on my
surrounding.
For me if it's sometimes reallyfunny because a few years back
I had like I was interviewingsomeone and and for a job, and
she was a fresh graduate and shewas like I grew up reading your
(41:33):
magazine, so I was like, oh wow, I I'm kind of offended because
that makes me really old,because you're like really old,
and I was like, oh wow, this issomething, wow this.
I was like, oh wow, this issomething, wow.
I was really like wow.
And then I said I'm so happybecause I do believe that we
have this kind of responsibility, because when I used to read
(41:55):
magazines, I used not anythingenough of all of these girls
that make it to glossy magazinesor are in the limelight.
So all of the media I consumedwhen I was younger, it was
really toxic for me and it mademe feel less than it never
(42:18):
empowered me.
It never gave me like a reallynice female role model to look
up to and to say, oh my God, Ican be her.
So when, when fast forward somany years later, a young girl
says that she grew up with itand she felt the opposite, that
was like, oh my God, I canliterally die now.
You know, this was this kind ofthat that made my my year.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
That's amazing.
So, in terms of advice, whatadvice would you give other
women who are buildingbusinesses across the continent?
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Usually, I think literally the best formula is
look for something that you love, do it passionately and
vigorously and hope that itloves you back and then give it
your all.
And then when you see it lovesyou back, then it it your all.
And then when you see it lovesyou back, then it's great.
If it doesn't love you back,kick it out, because not
everything is meant to be foreveryone at at any given time.
(43:13):
And don't take yourself tooseriously.
Life is too short, you canstill do tomorrow.
I always thought, no, I have todo it, I have to do today.
No, you don't have to do, youcan still do it tomorrow.
Tomorrow is another day, it'sokay.
The world is not going to.
No, you don't have to do it,you can still do it tomorrow.
Tomorrow is another day, it'sokay.
The world is not going to endif you don't submit it on time.
The world is not going to endif this pitch is not perfect
enough.
This is actually a note to self.
(43:34):
It's more a note to myselfrather than advice, because I'm
the last person to give advice,but these are the things that I
think are important, that Iwould like to share.
And don't take yourself tooseriously.
I mean, it's just.
You know, we're literally just.
It's so insignificant, whateverwe do is so insignificant at
the end of the day, and it's notreally what matters.
(43:56):
And what we do is not who weare.
This is something I really hadto learn, because whenever I do
something and it's rejected orit faces negative criticism or
anything because art is sosubjective and work is so
subjective, it's not me beingrejected, it's just something
that I did and it's what I do.
It's not who I am.
(44:17):
This is very, very importantand it was something I had to
learn the hard way.
And, yeah, always evaluate ifyou're running into the right
direction it's not always theright direction and have fun.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Have fun, yeah, have fun.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
If it's not fun anymore, then no, there's no
point.
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Thank you so much, May.
This has been a greatconversation.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Thank you so much for listening.
If you're not alreadysubscribed, please do so on
apple, spotify or wherever youget your podcast, and don't
forget to leave us a review sowe know how we're doing.
I'm akego okoye and you havebeen listening to african
business stories.
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