Ever wondered how to bridge the gap between sports and business in emerging markets? Join us as we chat with Sandrine Zoku, the inspiring founder and CEO of Playbook, who brings her unique journey from Cameroon to the United States and beyond to life. Sandrine shares her personal story of cultural adaptation, the childhood dreams that shaped her, and the profound influence of her parents in keeping her connected to her Cameroonian roots. From aspiring chef and fashion designer to college athlete, discover how her diverse experiences laid the foundation for her entrepreneurial spirit.
Get ready to learn how Sandrine transitioned from a corporate career at Vanguard to impactful roles at Invest Africa and NBA Africa events, driven by intuition and the right connections. Listen to how a serendipitous internship turned into a stepping stone for her career, highlighting the importance of being present in the right geographical locations. Through her narrative, you'll gain insights into the challenges and triumphs of her professional journey, including a pivotal co-founder breakup that tested her resilience and ultimately led to the creation of Playbook.
Explore the genesis of Playbook, a groundbreaking media company focused on the sports business in emerging economies, particularly Africa and the Middle East. Sandrine takes us through her move to Nairobi, the strategic partnerships she's formed, and her vision for the future of Playbook. She offers invaluable advice to women entrepreneurs, emphasizing the power of personal branding and social media. This episode is a treasure trove of actionable insights and inspiring stories for anyone looking to make an impact in the sports and business landscape.
A former professional athlete, Sandrine represented her home country of Cameroon in the 2011 and 2015 FIBA Olympic qualifying women’s basketball tournaments in both Bamako, Mali and Yaounde, Cameroon. She holds an MBA in Management and B.S. in Marketing from the University of Nevada Las Vegas where she served as a captain of the women’s basketball team.
AFRICAN BUSINESS STORIES WEBSITE:
www.africanbusinessstories.com
AFRICAN BUSINESS STORIES INSTAGRAM:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi there and welcome to another episode of African
Business Stories.
Africa is the only region inthe world where more women than
men choose to be entrepreneurs.
What this says to me is thatthe story of business in Africa
is the story of the Africanbusiness woman.
So we are on a journey ofdiscovery to find these women
(00:23):
and tell their stories.
So we're on a journey ofdiscovery to find these women
and tell their stories.
On the show, we will hear fromfemale innovators and
entrepreneurs building andrunning businesses in Africa.
They will share the highs andlows of their entrepreneurial
journey and lessons learnedalong the way.
Some of these women you mayknow, and many you may not, but
(00:48):
I assure you that all theirstories are inspiring in their
own right.
My hope is that these storieswill inspire you to reach for
your dreams and leave a legacyfor generations to come.
It makes such a big differenceto us if you can rate, review
and share our episodes.
You can do this mainly on ApplePodcasts, and you can find us
on all podcast platforms Ifyou're in Africa.
(01:09):
Spotify is now available, socheck us out there and don't
forget to rate, review and share.
On today's episode, I chat withSandrine Zoku, founder and CEO
Playbook, a sports businesscompany for emerging markets.
The daughter of immigrantparents, she moved to the US at
(01:31):
age five.
We talk about how she usedsports as a tool to travel the
world and how it ultimatelyreconnected her to Africa.
In pursuit of African-focusedimpact work, she leaned into the
two things she loved mostsports and Africa.
In pursuit of African-focusedimpact work, she leaned into the
two things she loved mostsports and Africa.
We talk about the journey intoentrepreneurship, surviving
(01:54):
co-founder breakup and decidingto try again.
I admire Sandrine's clarity ofvision and truly enjoyed this
conversation.
Let's get into it.
Hi, Sandrine, welcome toAfrican Business Stories, Thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I've known you for a couple of years now and just
watching your trajectory hasbeen incredible.
So I just want to start rightfrom the beginning, because I
know you were born in Cameroon,next door neighbor, and I wonder
do people confuse you forNigerian at some times?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
100%.
They either confuse me forNigerian Congolese and then also
because I'm tall people can'tsee now, but I'm 6'1", so they
also confuse me for beingSenegalese.
So I'm all over the place.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Wow, yeah, I mean, I thought you were Nigerian too,
so I'm all over the place.
Wow, yeah, I mean I thought youwere Nigerian too, so I'm
guilty.
I read that you moved here as afive-year-old I think, from
Cameroon.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
What was that experience like, coming to the
US for the first time, so young,oh my goodness it was quite a
culture shock that's number onebut really just such a pivotal
moment of my life that shapedwho I was, especially because I
didn't go back to the continent,and specifically to Cameroon,
until I was 20 years old and soI spent a really long time away
(03:14):
and just getting acclimated to anew culture, getting acclimated
to new people, can be quitechallenging, and so I think a
lot of you know children ofimmigrants who move when they're
younger experience the samething, where you'll get teased
or bullied for certain things.
But you know, I was gratefulfor the opportunity to be able
to come and learn, and I'm gladthat I have both cultures of
(03:39):
also, you know, understandingAmerican culture but also being
Cameroonian as well, sure.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Did your parents do any specific things to help keep
the culture alive when you weregrowing up?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah, I would say the number one thing is I'm so
grateful that they spoke so muchFrench to us and so that we
still retained our language.
And then the second piece isreally food, food and culture,
our community.
I feel like African people aresuch communal people and so our
entire community basically wasAfrican growing up and then just
(04:11):
also being able to.
Honestly, cameroonian food isso good.
So having the privilege ofbeing fed Cameroonian food my
entire life, that was reallypredominantly what we ate
growing up.
Some of my best memories arearound the table eating some
food, so honestly, I thinkthat's also been a really good
kind of tie back to the culture.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
When you were younger , what did you aspire to be?
What did you think you weregoing to do when you grew?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
up.
Yeah, gosh, that's so funny.
No one's ever asked me thisquestion.
Gosh, that's so funny.
No one's ever asked me thisquestion.
And I realize now, as an adult,that I am exactly the same way
as I am now.
I thought I was going to be achef, a model, a fashion
designer.
I fully thought that I wasgoing to be doing all of these
(05:00):
things at the same time and Itold myself, oh, I'll just be
this person who just does all ofthese things, who says I can't
do it all.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm still in that dreamlandwhere I have a number of things
that I want to do and I'mactively pursuing right now,
actually.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So, in terms of going to college, you know I did read
that your dad played basketballfor Cameroon, so very much into
sports, and he leaned into allhis children as far as sports
was concerned, and you got tohave basketball pay for
university, or for college, aswe call it in America.
So what was that experiencelike going into college and
(05:40):
being an athlete?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
It was such an interesting experience and it
colored it's really colored mylife, but it really colored kind
of those formative years.
First and foremost because whenyou're a part of, when you're a
part of, a team in collegenumber one, what people don't
realize is that you have afull-time job.
That alone is a massive amountof time, but thankfully it also
(06:03):
comes with privileges.
You get support, access to, youalso get to travel and you also
get an embedded set of friendsand family and community right
off the bat when you join, whenyou go to university, which most
people don't have and have toreally find and build for
themselves through clubs andother activities that they
(06:23):
pursue.
And so it was an incredibleexperience.
I wouldn't trade being on ateam and I've been on teams my
whole life but I wouldn't tradebeing on a team specifically in
university for anything.
I'm still friends with so manyof my teammates from college and
you just go through so much,you know, because it's so
physically demanding, it's somentally demanding, and then
(06:45):
you're also dealing with theregular college kid stuff, and
so being able to grow and evolvewith that set of people was
immeasurably helpful.
And I was also very privilegedto go to school at University of
Nevada, las Vegas, as abasketball player, because it's
a really interesting place tonot only be an athlete but also,
(07:07):
specifically, basketballplayers.
So you have the NBA SummerLeague that happens there every
year.
You have the USA national teams, on the women's and the men's
side that train there everysummer, and so we got to meet
Kobe and LeBron and, you know,and Brittany Griner and Diana
Taurasi All of these people werejust in our gyms during the
(07:31):
summertime and, as a basketballplayer, really having quite
literally the world's bestathletes, you know, being able
to see them live, meet them,interact with them, was unlike
anything else, and being able tobe a part of that community and
experience, it was absolutelyunreal.
And then you know, we have theLas Vegas Strip, five minutes
(07:51):
down the street from campus.
And so you also have access toall of these celebrities.
It's such an interesting andkind of surreal place to go to
school, but it was really reallyunique and I'm grateful.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
That's excellent.
So did you ever think you wouldgo pro?
Was that ever part of your plan?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Oh my gosh, absolutely not.
Well, I did not think I wasgoing to go pro in the WNBA is
what I should specifySpecifically, because what a lot
of people don't also realize isthat the WNBA is much more
difficult to get into than theNBA is, because we have so fewer
(08:28):
teams.
There's 12 teams in the WNBA,but there's 30 teams in the NBA,
so literally there's just lessspots.
So when the women who are inthe WNBA are really the best of
the best, it's like if you cutthe NBA down by a third and only
had those players playing.
And so I never thought I was.
I knew I was never going to begood enough to play in the WNBA,
(08:51):
but I did play professionallyoverseas, which was, you know, a
beautiful experience.
Being able to play in Spain andin Lithuania and, yeah, just
being able to live and get paidto play basketball.
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
That's awesome.
And talking about playingabroad, you know I read that one
of the things you're most proudof was being able to play for
the Cameroonian national team.
Talk to us a bit about that,yeah it was such a beautiful
experience.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
It was the reason actually why, when I said that I
hadn't returned to thecontinent for about 16 years,
what brought me back was thenational team, was tryouts for
the national team, and it wassuch an eye-opener to be
re-familiarized with my cultureon the ground through the lens
of basketball, because it taughtme so many things, first and
(09:42):
foremost, how impressive justthe athletic talent is back home
with so fewer, less resourcesand infrastructure, and so it
was very humbling for me, whichwas, you know, really necessary
and really, really cool.
But it also really helped toenlighten me to the challenges
(10:03):
that we experience as athletesand just the sports industry
across the continent.
And it's not that it's specificto the continent, because some
of the issues and challengesthat I faced, for example, were
like pay discrepancies and paybeing withheld from us, and my
last experience really playingfor the national team was in
(10:25):
2015,.
We were playing Olympicqualifiers and, after we
performed the best we'd everperformed, our basketball
federation wanted to pay usessentially 3% of what we were
contractually owed, and so wedecided to stage a sit-in, and
we staged a sit-in over thecourse of two weeks and in the
(10:47):
hotel that we were staying atand over the course of those two
weeks we did radio interviews,tv interviews, spoke to
journalists and we got theattention of the president and
the first lady who ultimatelyreally put pressure on the
Minister of Sports and theFederation ultimately to pay us
what we had agreed upon.
(11:07):
But that struggle and thatchallenge really opened up my
mind to the opportunity.
Ultimately it's what plantedthe seed for Playbook.
I didn't know it at the timebut it was such an interesting
experience, really enriching andyou know same thing, kind of.
Going back to my comments aboutmy teams, like I, I loved my
(11:29):
teammates and being able to alsoplay with other women who are
Cameroonian and being able tojust like feel that sense of
camaraderie and honor forplaying for our country is
honestly you just it, you know,an experience of my lifetime I
just can't replace that.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
That's fantastic.
So you eventually come back andjoin Vanguard and I'm wondering
, wondering, do I sense animmigrant parent influence at
some point in this story?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yes, absolutely Absolutely.
And it was interesting becausewhen I decided to play in 2015,
I was already working atVanguard.
I was there since 2013.
And I took a leave of absencefor three months to go play,
which ended up working outreally really well.
And I took a leave of absencefor three months to go play,
which, you know, ended upworking out really really well,
and I was so grateful to mybosses for even allowing me to
(12:18):
do so.
But you know, to your pointabout African parents,
absolutely, because when Itransitioned back, I knew in
2015 that when I stopped playing, that was going to be the last
time that I played, but I hadretired one time before then,
before I started working atVanguard.
And the reason why is becausewhen I played for Spain and
(12:39):
Lithuania, I played overseas fora year and God bless my mom,
but she did not think thatbasketball was a real job.
So I ultimately, after the year, I wanted to continue playing
because I was really using it,also as a tool to explore the
world and being able to live indifferent countries.
So I wanted to play in anothercountry, namely, specifically,
(13:03):
italy.
Yeah, so I decided to go backbecause I was set to get a real
job, you know, and finish mymaster's degree at that point as
well, because I had taken ayear off my master's degree and
so finished my MBA, went intofinance and then took the break
to play for the national teamand then came back and
(13:23):
ultimately just stopped playingcompletely.
But winding journey, but yeah.
African parents were definitelyinvolved.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
We know them.
They're probably a little moreunderstanding these days, but
back in the day not so much.
So, Vanguard, what was Vanguardlike?
What was that experience likefor you?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, it was.
It was man.
I have not talked aboutVanguard in so long.
It was such an interestingexperience, really enriching but
eye-opening, because it was myfirst experience in a very
corporate setting.
And of course it's finance andthen it's also institutional
finance as well, and so there'sjust so many guardrails, and
(14:07):
Vanguard, specifically, is sosuccessful because they're known
as a very conservative company,and so it was really
interesting understandingcorporate politics and corporate
culture and how that plays intoyour career.
Also, I participated in aprogram that was an accelerated
(14:29):
program within the corporation,that where we had, essentially,
it was either 13 or 14 of us andwe did.
It was a accelerated programwithin the corporation that
where we had, essentially it waseither 13 or 14 of us and we
did.
It was a rotational program, soeach and every single person
over the course of I think itwas about a year and a half or a
little bit, almost two yearshad the experience of
transitioning between differentdepartments, and that was the
reason why I participated in it,because I really wanted to get
(14:53):
the experience of what it wasactually like to work in some
different, you know, in somedifferent disciplines in
Cameroon.
I knew that the work that Iwanted to do, I wanted the scope
(15:16):
to include the Africancontinent, and at that time I'm
not quite sure about theirinvestment strategies now, but
at that time, you know, theconversation about Africa was
completely just non existent, tobe honest, and even
international conversations werereally happening as much.
They had an office, you know, inthe UK that really led the
international office, but itjust it wasn't robust, and so I
(15:41):
knew early on to my experienceat Vanguard that my career would
have to transition out ofVanguard in order to ultimately
pursue some of the, like youknow, experiences that I wanted
to have and to have the impactthat I wanted to have, at least
geographically.
But you know, all in all, ittaught me a lot.
(16:01):
It also taught me about how Idon't really want to participate
in a lot of corporate politics.
I think that it takes so muchfor me energy, and I want to
focus on the work and what we'redoing, and so I learned a lot
from the experience.
But all in all, it was reallyinteresting.
It was really interesting tounderstand that side of just
(16:21):
corporate America in general.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So how did you then transition to Invest Africa,
which is like it's like you putit out there you wanted to do
work that was relevant to thecontinent and entered this
opportunity.
So how did Invest Africa comeabout?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, it was very serendipitous because I had an
internship working with thePhoenix Suns and Phoenix Mercury
, wnba and NBA teams and my bossat the time.
This was back in like 2011, itwas either 2010 or 2011 when I
worked for them and then my bosswas attending some of the like
(16:58):
university games in Phoenix atthe time, and so she would
invite me to come with her andit was there that I actually met
the nephew of, who was the CEOof NBA Africa but is now the
president of the basketballAfrica league.
I'm a do fall and so I ended upbecoming really good friends
with the nephew and was sharingwith him that I wanted to get
(17:19):
back into the space working onthe continent, but I also had
this love of sports and he wasreally instrumental in helping
to connect me first to the SEEDproject and identifying which is
Amadou Fall nonprofitorganization that uses
basketball as a tool fordevelopment for youth, and so I
find my found myself helping tosupport them.
(17:41):
I also moved to New York forabout a month while I was in
working for Vanguard and helpedand did a lot of networking
while I was in New York, becauseI also knew that New York was a
place that I wanted totransition to next, and so, as I
started thinking, I was aboutthree and a half years into my
time at Vanguard and I startedthinking seriously about what
that next step could be.
(18:03):
I had no idea what I wanted todo, but I knew very clearly that
basketball and sports was apool, and that Africa also was
very clear for me, and at thetime, the NBA Africa World
versus World Games werehappening in South Africa, and I
(18:23):
knew that.
I didn't know what job title Iwanted, but I knew that anyone
who is in that world would bethere, and so I knew I wanted to
place myself in thatenvironment, and I've always
been pulled.
I've been someone who's alwaysbeen pulled to places
geographically.
I think that's a little bit ofkind of my gift.
(18:43):
I know where I'm supposed to bephysically, and anytime I
listen to that intuition ofwhere I'm supposed to be
physically, something alwayshappens, and so I felt that
really strongly about.
You know, I need I know, forwhatever reason, I need to be in
Johannesburg during this time,and so I went to the games in
(19:03):
2017 and ended up getting anopportunity to help coach with a
basketball camp the basketballwithout borders camp there and
through that experience and somenetworking and, honestly, being
very just hungry foropportunity, I ended up
volunteering at the NBA AfricaSummit at the time Business
Summit and I met Paul Hinksthere and it was Paul who was
(19:28):
speaking on a panel and he hadmentioned something during his
panel and made a statement and Iwent up to him and spoke to him
about you know his comment andit was very strange because in
the span of probably 10 or 15minutes of us talking, he just
kind of looked at me and said,hey, like I think I kind of have
a job for you and startedtalking to me a little bit about
(19:49):
what Invest Africa was.
And initially I was like this iscrazy, I don't know anything
about this, but I was veryintrigued and I was trying to
move more into the sports worldbut had the experience from
being in the investment world aswell and I was very clear
before going on this journeythat the impact that I wanted to
(20:11):
make and that impact of wantingto really contribute to the
growth of industry and businesson the continent, it really just
aligned in this very strangeway, especially because on my
flight there I remember tellingmyself I just have a feeling.
I know I'm going to get a job.
I know I'm going to find anopportunity for this experience.
(20:35):
And so, when you mentioned that,over the course of the next
kind of three or four days ofour time, we kept meeting up, we
kept having more conversation.
I also had an opportunity to beintroduced to Reva at the time,
who was also one of thefounding board members as well,
aubrey Ruby as well, who's alsoa founding board member, and so
it was amazing.
(20:55):
And so over the course of thosefour days I became familiar
with the opportunity, and threeweeks later he had, and a couple
of conversations later, I wassigning an offer letter to work
for Invest Africa and be theirnext, or at least their first,
executive director, and then Imoved to New York City like
(21:17):
three weeks later after that.
So it was an incredible,incredible opportunity and it
really dropped me right into thecenter of the African
investment community, and so itwas a really trial by fire
experience but exactly, I think,the type of opportunity that I
needed and was really callinginto my life, and so that's how
(21:41):
I ended up, kind of in theAfrican West.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Wow, that is such an amazing story, that whole thing
about understanding yourintuition and listening to it
and being able to visualize inyour mind what exactly it is you
want for yourself, and I thinkthat's a very, very powerful
lesson.
You know in how we we maneuverand how we we pivot.
So you were at Invest Africafor what?
(22:05):
Three years.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, I was at Invest Africa for almost four years,
so three yeah three years andchange.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Then you started getting another itch.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yes, yeah, I, I well, it was a little bit of starting
to get an itch, but also it was.
It was just proper burnout, youknow, and I think that so many
people experienced this 2020 andquarantine and just the state
of the world.
I just reached a point where Iknew, you know, and I was I was
(22:36):
at one woman show at InvestAfrica as well, you know.
I mean, thankfully, we had somany people that were there to
support and our board was reallygreat, you know.
But I just had reached thepoint, personally, where I was
pushing past even my physicallimits to keep, you know, just
moving the business forward andkeep progressing.
(22:57):
And when you do that, your bodywill always catch up with you,
always.
And so it reached a point whereI had to, I personally had to
stop and I forced myself totransition in order to really
help my body just kind of comeback to center and heal.
And it's still been a journey.
I still think that that's.
I don't even know that I'mfully over.
(23:19):
You know the burnout experience.
I think it takes so long, butyeah, it was, it was proper
burnout.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I can't even I can't even lie about it.
Yeah yeah, I know, I know thatfeeling well, and so at what
point did you start thinkingabout Tessa?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I'm assuming that's the next venture you went into
next venture you went into, Ifound myself a little bit back
to where I was before InvestAfrica, in that I didn't have a
job title for what it was that Iwanted to do, and I was, just
again, very clear about theimpact that I wanted to have and
had no clue of what that pathwould be.
But I just, quite literally,couldn't think of the job title,
(23:56):
and so I thought to myself youknow well, I just have a feeling
that I'm going to have tocreate this myself and figure
this out along the along the way, and so I first took time off.
I took about five months offfrom working and I, during that
time, the first basketballAfrica league final or not even
(24:19):
finals.
That time, the first basketballAfrica League final or not even
finals the entire league washappening.
And it was at a time where wewere fresh off COVID.
So everyone you know, all theplayers, including, you know,
the attendees were in a bubble,and so we went to.
I went to Kigali and got to seethe first.
You know, iteration and beingable to see the product in
person was amazing.
(24:39):
I feel like Amadou and his teamhave built such an incredible
asset.
But something that was veryclear to me was that it's not
something that can besustainable without the private
sector really coming on board,because that's how sports work.
Sports functions based,obviously, off of ticket sales,
but also, namely, sponsorshipdollars and investment, and, as
(25:02):
Africans in general, we have notyet understood sports to be a
true business opportunity.
And so I thought to myself howcan I contribute to the growth
of this industry and helping theprivate sector understand what
is here?
And so I met my formerco-founder of Tessa and we had
(25:24):
just decided you know, I thinkit's just best to start an
advisory firm and start to helppeople, you know, on a
one-on-one basis.
So that's ultimately what wedid.
We started the business in thefall of 2021 and we're doing
that work for approximately yeah, about a year and a half.
We did it for about a year anda half and we're entirely
focused on private sectorbusinesses, government entities
(25:48):
who are looking to leveragesports not only for just
development in general but alsoyouth development as well.
We also put on some camps.
But it was a very interestingexperience and what I will say
is that I think that businesswas a hair early because a lot
of the conversations that wewere having were convincing
(26:10):
people that it was evenworthwhile to consider investing
in sports and I think that madeour business development
process wait far too long.
But in the span I think, ofeven the last couple of years,
year and a half, there's beensome things that have happened
in the sports industry that haveforced just the general broader
(26:31):
community, but specifically theAfrican private sector
community, to understand hey, no, there's something here.
We have athletes who are notonly just great, they, they are
absolutely world-class.
You know, we have now Afcon.
This year was incredible theviewership, it was incredible,
even just the revenue.
It made $80 million of profitfor the first time.
(26:53):
Like, there's so many thingsthat are happening now that I
think people are starting to payattention to.
Yeah, that's, that's thejourney of kind of going into
Tessa and really wanting to helpto build the industry from the
ground up.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
What did it feel like having to bring that business
to a pause or a halt?
What did that feel like?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah, it was heartbreaking.
To be honest, it was reallyheartbreaking.
There was a couple of things.
The first thing I think it wasa good and natural not first
thing.
I think it was a good andnatural, not even natural.
I think it was a goodtransition because we were
helping people on a one-on-onebasis and I wanted to have more
of an impact and realize that itwas the industry was starting
(27:31):
to develop more quickly and tohave a louder mic.
I wanted to have a loudermicrophone about what was just
even taking place.
but also, really, it wasgenerated by a co-founder
breakup, you know, andultimately, and what I didn't
realize is, it really was like adivorce, to be honest more than
anything, and I've never beenmarried, I can't really say
(27:52):
exactly what that feels like,but that's what it felt like to
me, especially because myselfand my co-founder were very
close friends.
And surely, when you're buildingsomething, when you're trying
to bring a concept from theether, from your mind, into
reality, the process of that isa very intimate process.
(28:13):
It's a very vulnerable processas well, and especially when
you're trying to just generaterevenue for yourself, and so you
know, the split of ourfriendship, the split of our
business subsequently as well,was just heartbreaking for me,
and so having to go through thatexperience was challenging, and
(28:37):
then also how to pick up thepieces again is so challenging,
and so I spent most of 2023picking up the pieces and trying
to figure out, like, what am Igoing to do at this point?
You know what do this?
And questioning is this stillsomething that I even want to do
?
You know there's there's somany things that happen, so many
(29:00):
feelings that I think can bebrought about by some of these
breakups.
So I went through every emotion, through the frustration and
the anger to the sadness,depression.
I went through all of thosefeelings, but that's a part of
life and it's about weatheringthat storm and trying as much as
(29:22):
you can to maintain theconfidence in yourself and in
your vision, and knowing thatall of these things happen for a
reason, I feel I'm a veryspiritual person as well, so I
feel very I trust that God isguiding me in the right
direction, and so it made merespect the entrepreneurial
journey in a very different wayand understand that for me it's
(29:44):
much more of a spiritual journeythan anything else, and so
that's been something that I'vebeen trying to lean even more
into, and that's where I feellike I find comfort in what this
crazy journey thatentrepreneurship really can be.
I find comfort in what thiscrazy journey that
entrepreneurship really can be.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Thank you so much for sharing that In that place of
feeling like you failed.
You didn't give up.
You had another idea andPlaybook was born.
So to talk to us about comingto a point where you decided I'm
going to go this alone.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I'm going to create a new company and this is what
the company is going to do.
Yeah, I had had this idea,mainly about convenings, because
that's the work that I did atInvest Africa.
It was really.
You know really what that rolewas as executive director was
like a community manager.
It was about how can you growthe community, how can you
support members of the community, and so I hosted probably a
hundred events over the courseof my time there, and so I
really wanted to go back to whatI knew, and so I never
(30:51):
anticipated in my wildest dreamsthat I would be running a media
business.
I didn't know anything aboutmedia, but I knew that I wanted
to have a bigger microphone.
And I knew that I wanted tohave a bigger microphone, and I
knew that I needed to build acommunity of people who were
having these conversations sothat we can just help to bring
the industry further along.
And so it's been an interestingjourney in that it feels right
(31:16):
and it's helped me not onlyregain confidence in my own
vision but also understand moreof who I am, in a way, and being
confident in who I am, becausereally, what media is is just,
it's just a voice, and what Irealized is that people don't
want to hear you echo whateverybody else is saying.
(31:39):
People want to hear what it isthat you specifically are
offering and what you have tosay, and so this experience of
I've been incubating content onLinkedIn for the past few months
, and the posts that have beengetting the highest engagement
have all been about the timeswhere I say, no, this is what I
really think, or hey, here's anidea that I have.
(32:00):
Let me know what you all think,and those are the ones that
people are most interested in,and so I think we need a lot
more voices.
But ultimately, for me, it'sabout not only sharing my
perspective because I think Isit in a really unique spot as
an athlete that played on thecontinent, plus understands the
investment space really well andhas been very familiar with the
(32:21):
African business community, butalso coming from, you know,
from the Western perspective andWestern experience as well, and
so I wanted to not only be ableto share what it is that I've
learned and what I've seen andsome things that I think a lot
of people are not considering,but also platform all of the
people who are on the ground andhave been on the ground, have
been doing this work for decadesand find ways to funnel as much
(32:45):
capital as I can to them, andso, really, ultimately, what
Playbook is is a media company,so we put out news and insights
about what's happening in thesports business industry, not
only in Africa, but also in theMiddle East, as we are looking
to be a platform for allemerging sports economies, you
know, starting, of course, withAfrica, because it's what I know
(33:05):
best, but ultimately being ableto also create community host
events and ultimately being ableto really derive data that can
help to inform business leaderson the continent, as well as
those who want to enter into thecontinent, on how to, you know,
structure their businesses andmake better business decisions
in order to help the industry atleast develop sustainably.
(33:27):
That's the goal, that's thedream.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
That's fantastic.
So, in terms of funding, whatdoes funding look like for
Playbook?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, as of now, playbook has been entirely
funded by me, and I'm reallygrateful, though, to have a
partnership with Yatra Ventures.
Do you know who Raja Jendlayahis?
Speaker 1 (33:48):
I know the name.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yes, so she is the founder of an infrastructure
firm and VC firm that put theconsortium together for the East
African oil refinery that'sbeing built in Uganda.
So she's always been ininfrastructure and I met her
originally during my time builtin Uganda.
So she's always beeninfrastructure and I met her
originally during my time inWest Africa.
She's become such an incrediblementor to me so I'm really
(34:09):
excited to be able to partnerwith her on helping to grow
Playbook and it's her interestreally in this space is she has
such a focus on helping Africaneconomies develop sustainably
and she really believes inhigher education and what she
has observed over the years ishow, in Western world,
specifically namely in theStates, sports for universities
(34:34):
has really helped to driverevenue, and so universities,
many universities in the Statesare entirely independent of
state funding, and so, in orderfor African universities to
diversify their revenue streamsand to become more independent
of government funding, she wantsto explore this idea of what
would it look like to use sportsto do the same thing.
(34:57):
First issue that we really face,the foundational issue that we
face, is infrastructure.
We don't have the stadiums wedon't have and even if we do,
they're not kept, you know,upkept and they're just not of
global standards.
And so how can we help toelevate infrastructure at the
foundational level?
And how, then, that, you know,plays out into economic
(35:21):
development, whether that bethrough higher education, being
able to provide, you know, moresustainability for universities
themselves like that istremendously important but also
how that impacts communitiesaround just holistically.
There's so many ways in whichsports can help to contribute to
an economy, to a society, andso I'm really grateful to have
(35:42):
her really as somebody that'sbeen helping to support me along
this journey since day oneFunding in general, I've been
doing it alone thus far but,it's certainly something that
I'm going to be considering veryseriously and opening up
because I want it to be.
I think that there's a lot ofvalue that we have to offer, and
(36:03):
I want it to be something thatis built in community.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
So you've also moved again physically to the
continent?
Tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Oh, that has been such a realization of a dream
that I've had for so long.
There's nothing like being backhome and, you know, even though
it's not in Cameroonspecifically, even just quite
honestly being the majority as aBlack woman, being the majority
in your own space and peoplewho understand.
(36:31):
You know, we all have acommunal culture as Africans in
some sense, and so just being ina place that is so comforting
in that way has been great.
I also think that Nairobi,specifically, is a very
interesting space.
Right now.
It is growing so quickly reallyas an international destination
.
I don't think that a lot ofpeople realize how important I
(36:54):
think Nairobi will be to therest of the world in the next
few years.
So it almost feels like I'mplanting my roots in New York
City before it became New YorkCity to the rest of the world in
the next few years.
So it feels like I'm plantingmy roots in New York City before
it became New York City to therest of the world.
There's so much businesshappening there and also it's so
close to the Middle East, whereso much development is also
happening as well, and obviouslywhere Playbook also has a focus
(37:15):
.
So I wanted to choose a placewhere it was easy to travel
between both regions.
So I'm really grateful forNairobi and, you know, there's
just comfort levels as well.
There's Uber Eats and Wi-Fi isgood.
You know, I'm not reallyhurting for much in Nairobi and
the community has been theentrepreneurial community.
(37:38):
There is also amazing.
So it checks off the boxes inso many ways.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, and the weather too.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
The weather's amazing and I went to the Kenyan coast
for the first time.
The Kenyan coast is incredibleand not enough people, I think,
know about it, but it'sincredible White sand, beaches
and blue water it's like.
It's like zanzibar, it's like aplace yeah that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
So so, what does, as we, as we wrap up um, what does
the next five years look likefor, for playbook and for you,
sandrine?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
yeah, I have two lanes, I think, that I'm really
focused on developing right now.
One is, of course, playbook andsports business, and in five
years I would love for playbookto be hosting an annual
conference on emerging sportseconomies.
I would love for there to be aplaybook Africa, middle East,
(38:35):
southeast Asia, latin America aswell, but, you know, have these
regional expansions that ableto really cultivate communities
in these different regions andsee more collaboration happen
between all.
So I would love for that to bethe case.
Who knows?
I think I also.
It would be very interestingand and likely a part of
Playbook's journey, to alsodevelop an investment fund as
(38:57):
well, specifically for, you know, the sports industry.
And then my personal passionthat I also have, that's, you
know, just as significant assports for me is fashion, and
I've been weaving that a littlebit through the content that I
have on Playbook, but I alsopersonally just have a.
(39:18):
Really I just feel like mylife's mission is to make
clothes.
So I need to develop my fashionline that I have in my head and
when I think about just who Iam, everything that's really at
the intersection of sports andfashion really feels like me,
(39:38):
and so I'm just trying to reallystructure my life and work on
projects that help to bring thatmore to the forefront as much
as I possibly can.
So yeah, hopefully there'll bea line, hopefully Playbook will
be established, but that's thedream, I love it.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I love it.
So, just in terms of advice forother women who are building
businesses in Africa, whatadvice would you give to them?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, the first advice which I think that,
especially for early founders totruly understand, especially
for female founders, to trulyunderstand that you are your
business, you are the voice ofyour business and don't be
afraid of that, and to actuallylean into that, and I've found
that incubating the content forplaybook.
(40:29):
I decided to do it through mypersonal page versus my company
page for a reason, and that wasbecause people relate and want
to connect with a human beingand, to be quite honest, also
the algorithms on social media.
Brand pages are becoming moreobsolete and company pages are
becoming more obsolete andthere's a lot more content being
(40:51):
developed around the foundersand the story of your business
and your idea are coming fromfounder pages.
So you're seeing, oftentimes,founders gaining traction and
followers far more than theircompany pages are, and the
algorithms are understandingthis and reinforcing that, and
so, as a woman founder, I wouldabsolutely say lean into that.
(41:14):
I also think that LinkedIn is anincredible tool.
I know that most people don'tsee it as a content creation
platform, but we're now in theday and age where every company
has to be a media company aswell, and so you should really
see yourself and your journey asan opportunity and a platform
(41:35):
to be able to share just theprogress of what is happening,
to be the voice of your company.
It's tremendously important andI think it allows, most
importantly, people to connectwith you and allows you to be
able to communicate who you are,because, ultimately, the people
who are naturally attracted toyou partners, potential mentors,
(41:57):
et cetera, clients will findyou.
But you need to be able to likecommunicate who you are and do
it often, and there's a billionusers on LinkedIn and only 1% of
users are posting content, andthose that are are posting it,
you know, at once a week like.
So if you are somebody who evencommits to making a couple
(42:19):
posts a week, you're far andahead.
Your competitors are far andahead other people in the
industry, and so it's a huge,huge underutilized resource
right now, and so you shoulddefinitely take advantage of it.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Thank you so much, Sandrine.
This has been an incrediblyinsightful conversation.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with us today.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Of course, thank you so much for having me.
It was really fun to have thisconversation.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with us today, of course,
thank you so much for having me.
It was really fun to have thisconversation.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
I appreciate it.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you're not alreadysubscribed, please do so on
Apple, spotify or wherever youget your podcasts, and don't
forget to leave us a review sowe know how we're doing.
I'm Akego Okoye and you havebeen listening to African
Business Stories.
Hi there and welcome to another episode of African
Business Stories.
Africa is the only region inthe world where more women than
men choose to be entrepreneurs.
What this says to me is thatthe story of business in Africa
is the story of the Africanbusiness woman.
So we are on a journey ofdiscovery to find these women
(00:23):
and tell their stories.
So we're on a journey ofdiscovery to find these women
and tell their stories.
On the show, we will hear fromfemale innovators and
entrepreneurs building andrunning businesses in Africa.
They will share the highs andlows of their entrepreneurial
journey and lessons learnedalong the way.
Some of these women you mayknow, and many you may not, but
(00:48):
I assure you that all theirstories are inspiring in their
own right.
My hope is that these storieswill inspire you to reach for
your dreams and leave a legacyfor generations to come.
It makes such a big differenceto us if you can rate, review
and share our episodes.
You can do this mainly on ApplePodcasts, and you can find us
on all podcast platforms Ifyou're in Africa.
(01:09):
Spotify is now available, socheck us out there and don't
forget to rate, review and share.
On today's episode, I chat withSandrine Zoku, founder and CEO
Playbook, a sports businesscompany for emerging markets.
The daughter of immigrantparents, she moved to the US at
(01:31):
age five.
We talk about how she usedsports as a tool to travel the
world and how it ultimatelyreconnected her to Africa.
In pursuit of African-focusedimpact work, she leaned into the
two things she loved mostsports and Africa.
In pursuit of African-focusedimpact work, she leaned into the
two things she loved mostsports and Africa.
We talk about the journey intoentrepreneurship, surviving
(01:54):
co-founder breakup and decidingto try again.
I admire Sandrine's clarity ofvision and truly enjoyed this
conversation.
Let's get into it.
Hi, Sandrine, welcome toAfrican Business Stories, Thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I've known you for a couple of years now and just
watching your trajectory hasbeen incredible.
So I just want to start rightfrom the beginning, because I
know you were born in Cameroon,next door neighbor, and I wonder
do people confuse you forNigerian at some times?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
100%.
They either confuse me forNigerian Congolese and then also
because I'm tall people can'tsee now, but I'm 6'1", so they
also confuse me for beingSenegalese.
So I'm all over the place.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Wow, yeah, I mean, I thought you were Nigerian too,
so I'm all over the place.
Wow, yeah, I mean I thought youwere Nigerian too, so I'm
guilty.
I read that you moved here as afive-year-old I think, from
Cameroon.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
What was that experience like, coming to the
US for the first time, so young,oh my goodness it was quite a
culture shock that's number onebut really just such a pivotal
moment of my life that shapedwho I was, especially because I
didn't go back to the continent,and specifically to Cameroon,
until I was 20 years old and soI spent a really long time away
(03:14):
and just getting acclimated to anew culture, getting acclimated
to new people, can be quitechallenging, and so I think a
lot of you know children ofimmigrants who move when they're
younger experience the samething, where you'll get teased
or bullied for certain things.
But you know, I was gratefulfor the opportunity to be able
to come and learn, and I'm gladthat I have both cultures of
(03:39):
also, you know, understandingAmerican culture but also being
Cameroonian as well, sure.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Did your parents do any specific things to help keep
the culture alive when you weregrowing up?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah, I would say the number one thing is I'm so
grateful that they spoke so muchFrench to us and so that we
still retained our language.
And then the second piece isreally food, food and culture,
our community.
I feel like African people aresuch communal people and so our
entire community basically wasAfrican growing up and then just
(04:11):
also being able to.
Honestly, cameroonian food isso good.
So having the privilege ofbeing fed Cameroonian food my
entire life, that was reallypredominantly what we ate
growing up.
Some of my best memories arearound the table eating some
food, so honestly, I thinkthat's also been a really good
kind of tie back to the culture.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
When you were younger , what did you aspire to be?
What did you think you weregoing to do when you grew?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
up.
Yeah, gosh, that's so funny.
No one's ever asked me thisquestion.
Gosh, that's so funny.
No one's ever asked me thisquestion.
And I realize now, as an adult,that I am exactly the same way
as I am now.
I thought I was going to be achef, a model, a fashion
designer.
I fully thought that I wasgoing to be doing all of these
(05:00):
things at the same time and Itold myself, oh, I'll just be
this person who just does all ofthese things, who says I can't
do it all.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm still in that dreamlandwhere I have a number of things
that I want to do and I'mactively pursuing right now,
actually.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So, in terms of going to college, you know I did read
that your dad played basketballfor Cameroon, so very much into
sports, and he leaned into allhis children as far as sports
was concerned, and you got tohave basketball pay for
university, or for college, aswe call it in America.
So what was that experiencelike going into college and
(05:40):
being an athlete?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
It was such an interesting experience and it
colored it's really colored mylife, but it really colored kind
of those formative years.
First and foremost because whenyou're a part of, when you're a
part of, a team in collegenumber one, what people don't
realize is that you have afull-time job.
That alone is a massive amountof time, but thankfully it also
(06:03):
comes with privileges.
You get support, access to, youalso get to travel and you also
get an embedded set of friendsand family and community right
off the bat when you join, whenyou go to university, which most
people don't have and have toreally find and build for
themselves through clubs andother activities that they
(06:23):
pursue.
And so it was an incredibleexperience.
I wouldn't trade being on ateam and I've been on teams my
whole life but I wouldn't tradebeing on a team specifically in
university for anything.
I'm still friends with so manyof my teammates from college and
you just go through so much,you know, because it's so
physically demanding, it's somentally demanding, and then
(06:45):
you're also dealing with theregular college kid stuff, and
so being able to grow and evolvewith that set of people was
immeasurably helpful.
And I was also very privilegedto go to school at University of
Nevada, las Vegas, as abasketball player, because it's
a really interesting place tonot only be an athlete but also,
(07:07):
specifically, basketballplayers.
So you have the NBA SummerLeague that happens there every
year.
You have the USA national teams, on the women's and the men's
side that train there everysummer, and so we got to meet
Kobe and LeBron and, you know,and Brittany Griner and Diana
Taurasi All of these people werejust in our gyms during the
(07:31):
summertime and, as a basketballplayer, really having quite
literally the world's bestathletes, you know, being able
to see them live, meet them,interact with them, was unlike
anything else, and being able tobe a part of that community and
experience, it was absolutelyunreal.
And then you know, we have theLas Vegas Strip, five minutes
(07:51):
down the street from campus.
And so you also have access toall of these celebrities.
It's such an interesting andkind of surreal place to go to
school, but it was really reallyunique and I'm grateful.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
That's excellent.
So did you ever think you wouldgo pro?
Was that ever part of your plan?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Oh my gosh, absolutely not.
Well, I did not think I wasgoing to go pro in the WNBA is
what I should specifySpecifically, because what a lot
of people don't also realize isthat the WNBA is much more
difficult to get into than theNBA is, because we have so fewer
(08:28):
teams.
There's 12 teams in the WNBA,but there's 30 teams in the NBA,
so literally there's just lessspots.
So when the women who are inthe WNBA are really the best of
the best, it's like if you cutthe NBA down by a third and only
had those players playing.
And so I never thought I was.
I knew I was never going to begood enough to play in the WNBA,
(08:51):
but I did play professionallyoverseas, which was, you know, a
beautiful experience.
Being able to play in Spain andin Lithuania and, yeah, just
being able to live and get paidto play basketball.
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
That's awesome.
And talking about playingabroad, you know I read that one
of the things you're most proudof was being able to play for
the Cameroonian national team.
Talk to us a bit about that,yeah it was such a beautiful
experience.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
It was the reason actually why, when I said that I
hadn't returned to thecontinent for about 16 years,
what brought me back was thenational team, was tryouts for
the national team, and it wassuch an eye-opener to be
re-familiarized with my cultureon the ground through the lens
of basketball, because it taughtme so many things, first and
(09:42):
foremost, how impressive justthe athletic talent is back home
with so fewer, less resourcesand infrastructure, and so it
was very humbling for me, whichwas, you know, really necessary
and really, really cool.
But it also really helped toenlighten me to the challenges
(10:03):
that we experience as athletesand just the sports industry
across the continent.
And it's not that it's specificto the continent, because some
of the issues and challengesthat I faced, for example, were
like pay discrepancies and paybeing withheld from us, and my
last experience really playingfor the national team was in
(10:25):
2015,.
We were playing Olympicqualifiers and, after we
performed the best we'd everperformed, our basketball
federation wanted to pay usessentially 3% of what we were
contractually owed, and so wedecided to stage a sit-in, and
we staged a sit-in over thecourse of two weeks and in the
(10:47):
hotel that we were staying atand over the course of those two
weeks we did radio interviews,tv interviews, spoke to
journalists and we got theattention of the president and
the first lady who ultimatelyreally put pressure on the
Minister of Sports and theFederation ultimately to pay us
what we had agreed upon.
(11:07):
But that struggle and thatchallenge really opened up my
mind to the opportunity.
Ultimately it's what plantedthe seed for Playbook.
I didn't know it at the timebut it was such an interesting
experience, really enriching andyou know same thing, kind of.
Going back to my comments aboutmy teams, like I, I loved my
(11:29):
teammates and being able to alsoplay with other women who are
Cameroonian and being able tojust like feel that sense of
camaraderie and honor forplaying for our country is
honestly you just it, you know,an experience of my lifetime I
just can't replace that.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
That's fantastic.
So you eventually come back andjoin Vanguard and I'm wondering
, wondering, do I sense animmigrant parent influence at
some point in this story?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yes, absolutely Absolutely.
And it was interesting becausewhen I decided to play in 2015,
I was already working atVanguard.
I was there since 2013.
And I took a leave of absencefor three months to go play,
which ended up working outreally really well.
And I took a leave of absencefor three months to go play,
which, you know, ended upworking out really really well,
and I was so grateful to mybosses for even allowing me to
(12:18):
do so.
But you know, to your pointabout African parents,
absolutely, because when Itransitioned back, I knew in
2015 that when I stopped playing, that was going to be the last
time that I played, but I hadretired one time before then,
before I started working atVanguard.
And the reason why is becausewhen I played for Spain and
(12:39):
Lithuania, I played overseas fora year and God bless my mom,
but she did not think thatbasketball was a real job.
So I ultimately, after the year, I wanted to continue playing
because I was really using it,also as a tool to explore the
world and being able to live indifferent countries.
So I wanted to play in anothercountry, namely, specifically,
(13:03):
italy.
Yeah, so I decided to go backbecause I was set to get a real
job, you know, and finish mymaster's degree at that point as
well, because I had taken ayear off my master's degree and
so finished my MBA, went intofinance and then took the break
to play for the national teamand then came back and
(13:23):
ultimately just stopped playingcompletely.
But winding journey, but yeah.
African parents were definitelyinvolved.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
We know them.
They're probably a little moreunderstanding these days, but
back in the day not so much.
So, Vanguard, what was Vanguardlike?
What was that experience likefor you?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, it was.
It was man.
I have not talked aboutVanguard in so long.
It was such an interestingexperience, really enriching but
eye-opening, because it was myfirst experience in a very
corporate setting.
And of course it's finance andthen it's also institutional
finance as well, and so there'sjust so many guardrails, and
(14:07):
Vanguard, specifically, is sosuccessful because they're known
as a very conservative company,and so it was really
interesting understandingcorporate politics and corporate
culture and how that plays intoyour career.
Also, I participated in aprogram that was an accelerated
(14:29):
program within the corporation,that where we had, essentially,
it was either 13 or 14 of us andwe did.
It was a accelerated programwithin the corporation that
where we had, essentially it waseither 13 or 14 of us and we
did.
It was a rotational program, soeach and every single person
over the course of I think itwas about a year and a half or a
little bit, almost two yearshad the experience of
transitioning between differentdepartments, and that was the
reason why I participated in it,because I really wanted to get
(14:53):
the experience of what it wasactually like to work in some
different, you know, in somedifferent disciplines in
Cameroon.
I knew that the work that Iwanted to do, I wanted the scope
(15:16):
to include the Africancontinent, and at that time I'm
not quite sure about theirinvestment strategies now, but
at that time, you know, theconversation about Africa was
completely just non existent, tobe honest, and even
international conversations werereally happening as much.
They had an office, you know, inthe UK that really led the
international office, but itjust it wasn't robust, and so I
(15:41):
knew early on to my experienceat Vanguard that my career would
have to transition out ofVanguard in order to ultimately
pursue some of the, like youknow, experiences that I wanted
to have and to have the impactthat I wanted to have, at least
geographically.
But you know, all in all, ittaught me a lot.
(16:01):
It also taught me about how Idon't really want to participate
in a lot of corporate politics.
I think that it takes so muchfor me energy, and I want to
focus on the work and what we'redoing, and so I learned a lot
from the experience.
But all in all, it was reallyinteresting.
It was really interesting tounderstand that side of just
(16:21):
corporate America in general.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So how did you then transition to Invest Africa,
which is like it's like you putit out there you wanted to do
work that was relevant to thecontinent and entered this
opportunity.
So how did Invest Africa comeabout?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, it was very serendipitous because I had an
internship working with thePhoenix Suns and Phoenix Mercury
, wnba and NBA teams and my bossat the time.
This was back in like 2011, itwas either 2010 or 2011 when I
worked for them and then my bosswas attending some of the like
(16:58):
university games in Phoenix atthe time, and so she would
invite me to come with her andit was there that I actually met
the nephew of, who was the CEOof NBA Africa but is now the
president of the basketballAfrica league.
I'm a do fall and so I ended upbecoming really good friends
with the nephew and was sharingwith him that I wanted to get
(17:19):
back into the space working onthe continent, but I also had
this love of sports and he wasreally instrumental in helping
to connect me first to the SEEDproject and identifying which is
Amadou Fall nonprofitorganization that uses
basketball as a tool fordevelopment for youth, and so I
find my found myself helping tosupport them.
(17:41):
I also moved to New York forabout a month while I was in
working for Vanguard and helpedand did a lot of networking
while I was in New York, becauseI also knew that New York was a
place that I wanted totransition to next, and so, as I
started thinking, I was aboutthree and a half years into my
time at Vanguard and I startedthinking seriously about what
that next step could be.
(18:03):
I had no idea what I wanted todo, but I knew very clearly that
basketball and sports was apool, and that Africa also was
very clear for me, and at thetime, the NBA Africa World
versus World Games werehappening in South Africa, and I
(18:23):
knew that.
I didn't know what job title Iwanted, but I knew that anyone
who is in that world would bethere, and so I knew I wanted to
place myself in thatenvironment, and I've always
been pulled.
I've been someone who's alwaysbeen pulled to places
geographically.
I think that's a little bit ofkind of my gift.
(18:43):
I know where I'm supposed to bephysically, and anytime I
listen to that intuition ofwhere I'm supposed to be
physically, something alwayshappens, and so I felt that
really strongly about.
You know, I need I know, forwhatever reason, I need to be in
Johannesburg during this time,and so I went to the games in
(19:03):
2017 and ended up getting anopportunity to help coach with a
basketball camp the basketballwithout borders camp there and
through that experience and somenetworking and, honestly, being
very just hungry foropportunity, I ended up
volunteering at the NBA AfricaSummit at the time Business
Summit and I met Paul Hinksthere and it was Paul who was
(19:28):
speaking on a panel and he hadmentioned something during his
panel and made a statement and Iwent up to him and spoke to him
about you know his comment andit was very strange because in
the span of probably 10 or 15minutes of us talking, he just
kind of looked at me and said,hey, like I think I kind of have
a job for you and startedtalking to me a little bit about
(19:49):
what Invest Africa was.
And initially I was like this iscrazy, I don't know anything
about this, but I was veryintrigued and I was trying to
move more into the sports worldbut had the experience from
being in the investment world aswell and I was very clear
before going on this journeythat the impact that I wanted to
(20:11):
make and that impact of wantingto really contribute to the
growth of industry and businesson the continent, it really just
aligned in this very strangeway, especially because on my
flight there I remember tellingmyself I just have a feeling.
I know I'm going to get a job.
I know I'm going to find anopportunity for this experience.
(20:35):
And so, when you mentioned that,over the course of the next
kind of three or four days ofour time, we kept meeting up, we
kept having more conversation.
I also had an opportunity to beintroduced to Reva at the time,
who was also one of thefounding board members as well,
aubrey Ruby as well, who's alsoa founding board member, and so
it was amazing.
(20:55):
And so over the course of thosefour days I became familiar
with the opportunity, and threeweeks later he had, and a couple
of conversations later, I wassigning an offer letter to work
for Invest Africa and be theirnext, or at least their first,
executive director, and then Imoved to New York City like
(21:17):
three weeks later after that.
So it was an incredible,incredible opportunity and it
really dropped me right into thecenter of the African
investment community, and so itwas a really trial by fire
experience but exactly, I think,the type of opportunity that I
needed and was really callinginto my life, and so that's how
(21:41):
I ended up, kind of in theAfrican West.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Wow, that is such an amazing story, that whole thing
about understanding yourintuition and listening to it
and being able to visualize inyour mind what exactly it is you
want for yourself, and I thinkthat's a very, very powerful
lesson.
You know in how we we maneuverand how we we pivot.
So you were at Invest Africafor what?
(22:05):
Three years.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, I was at Invest Africa for almost four years,
so three yeah three years andchange.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Then you started getting another itch.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yes, yeah, I, I well, it was a little bit of starting
to get an itch, but also it was.
It was just proper burnout, youknow, and I think that so many
people experienced this 2020 andquarantine and just the state
of the world.
I just reached a point where Iknew, you know, and I was I was
(22:36):
at one woman show at InvestAfrica as well, you know.
I mean, thankfully, we had somany people that were there to
support and our board was reallygreat, you know.
But I just had reached thepoint, personally, where I was
pushing past even my physicallimits to keep, you know, just
moving the business forward andkeep progressing.
(22:57):
And when you do that, your bodywill always catch up with you,
always.
And so it reached a point whereI had to, I personally had to
stop and I forced myself totransition in order to really
help my body just kind of comeback to center and heal.
And it's still been a journey.
I still think that that's.
I don't even know that I'mfully over.
(23:19):
You know the burnout experience.
I think it takes so long, butyeah, it was, it was proper
burnout.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I can't even I can't even lie about it.
Yeah yeah, I know, I know thatfeeling well, and so at what
point did you start thinkingabout Tessa?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I'm assuming that's the next venture you went into
next venture you went into, Ifound myself a little bit back
to where I was before InvestAfrica, in that I didn't have a
job title for what it was that Iwanted to do, and I was, just
again, very clear about theimpact that I wanted to have and
had no clue of what that pathwould be.
But I just, quite literally,couldn't think of the job title,
(23:56):
and so I thought to myself youknow well, I just have a feeling
that I'm going to have tocreate this myself and figure
this out along the along the way, and so I first took time off.
I took about five months offfrom working and I, during that
time, the first basketballAfrica league final or not even
(24:19):
finals.
That time, the first basketballAfrica League final or not even
finals the entire league washappening.
And it was at a time where wewere fresh off COVID.
So everyone you know, all theplayers, including, you know,
the attendees were in a bubble,and so we went to.
I went to Kigali and got to seethe first.
You know, iteration and beingable to see the product in
person was amazing.
(24:39):
I feel like Amadou and his teamhave built such an incredible
asset.
But something that was veryclear to me was that it's not
something that can besustainable without the private
sector really coming on board,because that's how sports work.
Sports functions based,obviously, off of ticket sales,
but also, namely, sponsorshipdollars and investment, and, as
(25:02):
Africans in general, we have notyet understood sports to be a
true business opportunity.
And so I thought to myself howcan I contribute to the growth
of this industry and helping theprivate sector understand what
is here?
And so I met my formerco-founder of Tessa and we had
(25:24):
just decided you know, I thinkit's just best to start an
advisory firm and start to helppeople, you know, on a
one-on-one basis.
So that's ultimately what wedid.
We started the business in thefall of 2021 and we're doing
that work for approximately yeah, about a year and a half.
We did it for about a year anda half and we're entirely
focused on private sectorbusinesses, government entities
(25:48):
who are looking to leveragesports not only for just
development in general but alsoyouth development as well.
We also put on some camps.
But it was a very interestingexperience and what I will say
is that I think that businesswas a hair early because a lot
of the conversations that wewere having were convincing
(26:10):
people that it was evenworthwhile to consider investing
in sports and I think that madeour business development
process wait far too long.
But in the span I think, ofeven the last couple of years,
year and a half, there's beensome things that have happened
in the sports industry that haveforced just the general broader
(26:31):
community, but specifically theAfrican private sector
community, to understand hey, no, there's something here.
We have athletes who are notonly just great, they, they are
absolutely world-class.
You know, we have now Afcon.
This year was incredible theviewership, it was incredible,
even just the revenue.
It made $80 million of profitfor the first time.
(26:53):
Like, there's so many thingsthat are happening now that I
think people are starting to payattention to.
Yeah, that's, that's thejourney of kind of going into
Tessa and really wanting to helpto build the industry from the
ground up.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
What did it feel like having to bring that business
to a pause or a halt?
What did that feel like?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah, it was heartbreaking.
To be honest, it was reallyheartbreaking.
There was a couple of things.
The first thing I think it wasa good and natural not first
thing.
I think it was a good andnatural, not even natural.
I think it was a goodtransition because we were
helping people on a one-on-onebasis and I wanted to have more
of an impact and realize that itwas the industry was starting
(27:31):
to develop more quickly and tohave a louder mic.
I wanted to have a loudermicrophone about what was just
even taking place.
but also, really, it wasgenerated by a co-founder
breakup, you know, andultimately, and what I didn't
realize is, it really was like adivorce, to be honest more than
anything, and I've never beenmarried, I can't really say
(27:52):
exactly what that feels like,but that's what it felt like to
me, especially because myselfand my co-founder were very
close friends.
And surely, when you're buildingsomething, when you're trying
to bring a concept from theether, from your mind, into
reality, the process of that isa very intimate process.
(28:13):
It's a very vulnerable processas well, and especially when
you're trying to just generaterevenue for yourself, and so you
know, the split of ourfriendship, the split of our
business subsequently as well,was just heartbreaking for me,
and so having to go through thatexperience was challenging, and
(28:37):
then also how to pick up thepieces again is so challenging,
and so I spent most of 2023picking up the pieces and trying
to figure out, like, what am Igoing to do at this point?
You know what do this?
And questioning is this stillsomething that I even want to do
?
You know there's there's somany things that happen, so many
(29:00):
feelings that I think can bebrought about by some of these
breakups.
So I went through every emotion, through the frustration and
the anger to the sadness,depression.
I went through all of thosefeelings, but that's a part of
life and it's about weatheringthat storm and trying as much as
(29:22):
you can to maintain theconfidence in yourself and in
your vision, and knowing thatall of these things happen for a
reason, I feel I'm a veryspiritual person as well, so I
feel very I trust that God isguiding me in the right
direction, and so it made merespect the entrepreneurial
journey in a very different wayand understand that for me it's
(29:44):
much more of a spiritual journeythan anything else, and so
that's been something that I'vebeen trying to lean even more
into, and that's where I feellike I find comfort in what this
crazy journey thatentrepreneurship really can be.
I find comfort in what thiscrazy journey that
entrepreneurship really can be.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Thank you so much for sharing that In that place of
feeling like you failed.
You didn't give up.
You had another idea andPlaybook was born.
So to talk to us about comingto a point where you decided I'm
going to go this alone.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I'm going to create a new company and this is what
the company is going to do.
Yeah, I had had this idea,mainly about convenings, because
that's the work that I did atInvest Africa.
It was really.
You know really what that rolewas as executive director was
like a community manager.
It was about how can you growthe community, how can you
support members of the community, and so I hosted probably a
hundred events over the courseof my time there, and so I
really wanted to go back to whatI knew, and so I never
(30:51):
anticipated in my wildest dreamsthat I would be running a media
business.
I didn't know anything aboutmedia, but I knew that I wanted
to have a bigger microphone.
And I knew that I wanted tohave a bigger microphone, and I
knew that I needed to build acommunity of people who were
having these conversations sothat we can just help to bring
the industry further along.
And so it's been an interestingjourney in that it feels right
(31:16):
and it's helped me not onlyregain confidence in my own
vision but also understand moreof who I am, in a way, and being
confident in who I am, becausereally, what media is is just,
it's just a voice, and what Irealized is that people don't
want to hear you echo whateverybody else is saying.
(31:39):
People want to hear what it isthat you specifically are
offering and what you have tosay, and so this experience of
I've been incubating content onLinkedIn for the past few months
, and the posts that have beengetting the highest engagement
have all been about the timeswhere I say, no, this is what I
really think, or hey, here's anidea that I have.
(32:00):
Let me know what you all think,and those are the ones that
people are most interested in,and so I think we need a lot
more voices.
But ultimately, for me, it'sabout not only sharing my
perspective because I think Isit in a really unique spot as
an athlete that played on thecontinent, plus understands the
investment space really well andhas been very familiar with the
(32:21):
African business community, butalso coming from, you know,
from the Western perspective andWestern experience as well, and
so I wanted to not only be ableto share what it is that I've
learned and what I've seen andsome things that I think a lot
of people are not considering,but also platform all of the
people who are on the ground andhave been on the ground, have
been doing this work for decadesand find ways to funnel as much
(32:45):
capital as I can to them, andso, really, ultimately, what
Playbook is is a media company,so we put out news and insights
about what's happening in thesports business industry, not
only in Africa, but also in theMiddle East, as we are looking
to be a platform for allemerging sports economies, you
know, starting, of course, withAfrica, because it's what I know
(33:05):
best, but ultimately being ableto also create community host
events and ultimately being ableto really derive data that can
help to inform business leaderson the continent, as well as
those who want to enter into thecontinent, on how to, you know,
structure their businesses andmake better business decisions
in order to help the industry atleast develop sustainably.
(33:27):
That's the goal, that's thedream.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
That's fantastic.
So, in terms of funding, whatdoes funding look like for
Playbook?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, as of now, playbook has been entirely
funded by me, and I'm reallygrateful, though, to have a
partnership with Yatra Ventures.
Do you know who Raja Jendlayahis?
Speaker 1 (33:48):
I know the name.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yes, so she is the founder of an infrastructure
firm and VC firm that put theconsortium together for the East
African oil refinery that'sbeing built in Uganda.
So she's always been ininfrastructure and I met her
originally during my time builtin Uganda.
So she's always beeninfrastructure and I met her
originally during my time inWest Africa.
She's become such an incrediblementor to me so I'm really
(34:09):
excited to be able to partnerwith her on helping to grow
Playbook and it's her interestreally in this space is she has
such a focus on helping Africaneconomies develop sustainably
and she really believes inhigher education and what she
has observed over the years ishow, in Western world,
specifically namely in theStates, sports for universities
(34:34):
has really helped to driverevenue, and so universities,
many universities in the Statesare entirely independent of
state funding, and so, in orderfor African universities to
diversify their revenue streamsand to become more independent
of government funding, she wantsto explore this idea of what
would it look like to use sportsto do the same thing.
(34:57):
First issue that we really face,the foundational issue that we
face, is infrastructure.
We don't have the stadiums wedon't have and even if we do,
they're not kept, you know,upkept and they're just not of
global standards.
And so how can we help toelevate infrastructure at the
foundational level?
And how, then, that, you know,plays out into economic
(35:21):
development, whether that bethrough higher education, being
able to provide, you know, moresustainability for universities
themselves like that istremendously important but also
how that impacts communitiesaround just holistically.
There's so many ways in whichsports can help to contribute to
an economy, to a society, andso I'm really grateful to have
(35:42):
her really as somebody that'sbeen helping to support me along
this journey since day oneFunding in general, I've been
doing it alone thus far but,it's certainly something that
I'm going to be considering veryseriously and opening up
because I want it to be.
I think that there's a lot ofvalue that we have to offer, and
(36:03):
I want it to be something thatis built in community.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
So you've also moved again physically to the
continent?
Tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Oh, that has been such a realization of a dream
that I've had for so long.
There's nothing like being backhome and, you know, even though
it's not in Cameroonspecifically, even just quite
honestly being the majority as aBlack woman, being the majority
in your own space and peoplewho understand.
(36:31):
You know, we all have acommunal culture as Africans in
some sense, and so just being ina place that is so comforting
in that way has been great.
I also think that Nairobi,specifically, is a very
interesting space.
Right now.
It is growing so quickly reallyas an international destination
.
I don't think that a lot ofpeople realize how important I
(36:54):
think Nairobi will be to therest of the world in the next
few years.
So it almost feels like I'mplanting my roots in New York
City before it became New YorkCity to the rest of the world in
the next few years.
So it feels like I'm plantingmy roots in New York City before
it became New York City to therest of the world.
There's so much businesshappening there and also it's so
close to the Middle East, whereso much development is also
happening as well, and obviouslywhere Playbook also has a focus
(37:15):
.
So I wanted to choose a placewhere it was easy to travel
between both regions.
So I'm really grateful forNairobi and, you know, there's
just comfort levels as well.
There's Uber Eats and Wi-Fi isgood.
You know, I'm not reallyhurting for much in Nairobi and
the community has been theentrepreneurial community.
(37:38):
There is also amazing.
So it checks off the boxes inso many ways.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, and the weather too.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
The weather's amazing and I went to the Kenyan coast
for the first time.
The Kenyan coast is incredibleand not enough people, I think,
know about it, but it'sincredible White sand, beaches
and blue water it's like.
It's like zanzibar, it's like aplace yeah that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
So so, what does, as we, as we wrap up um, what does
the next five years look likefor, for playbook and for you,
sandrine?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
yeah, I have two lanes, I think, that I'm really
focused on developing right now.
One is, of course, playbook andsports business, and in five
years I would love for playbookto be hosting an annual
conference on emerging sportseconomies.
I would love for there to be aplaybook Africa, middle East,
(38:35):
southeast Asia, latin America aswell, but, you know, have these
regional expansions that ableto really cultivate communities
in these different regions andsee more collaboration happen
between all.
So I would love for that to bethe case.
Who knows?
I think I also.
It would be very interestingand and likely a part of
Playbook's journey, to alsodevelop an investment fund as
(38:57):
well, specifically for, you know, the sports industry.
And then my personal passionthat I also have, that's, you
know, just as significant assports for me is fashion, and
I've been weaving that a littlebit through the content that I
have on Playbook, but I alsopersonally just have a.
(39:18):
Really I just feel like mylife's mission is to make
clothes.
So I need to develop my fashionline that I have in my head and
when I think about just who Iam, everything that's really at
the intersection of sports andfashion really feels like me,
(39:38):
and so I'm just trying to reallystructure my life and work on
projects that help to bring thatmore to the forefront as much
as I possibly can.
So yeah, hopefully there'll bea line, hopefully Playbook will
be established, but that's thedream, I love it.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I love it.
So, just in terms of advice forother women who are building
businesses in Africa, whatadvice would you give to them?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, the first advice which I think that,
especially for early founders totruly understand, especially
for female founders, to trulyunderstand that you are your
business, you are the voice ofyour business and don't be
afraid of that, and to actuallylean into that, and I've found
that incubating the content forplaybook.
(40:29):
I decided to do it through mypersonal page versus my company
page for a reason, and that wasbecause people relate and want
to connect with a human beingand, to be quite honest, also
the algorithms on social media.
Brand pages are becoming moreobsolete and company pages are
becoming more obsolete andthere's a lot more content being
(40:51):
developed around the foundersand the story of your business
and your idea are coming fromfounder pages.
So you're seeing, oftentimes,founders gaining traction and
followers far more than theircompany pages are, and the
algorithms are understandingthis and reinforcing that, and
so, as a woman founder, I wouldabsolutely say lean into that.
(41:14):
I also think that LinkedIn is anincredible tool.
I know that most people don'tsee it as a content creation
platform, but we're now in theday and age where every company
has to be a media company aswell, and so you should really
see yourself and your journey asan opportunity and a platform
(41:35):
to be able to share just theprogress of what is happening,
to be the voice of your company.
It's tremendously important andI think it allows, most
importantly, people to connectwith you and allows you to be
able to communicate who you are,because, ultimately, the people
who are naturally attracted toyou partners, potential mentors,
(41:57):
et cetera, clients will findyou.
But you need to be able to likecommunicate who you are and do
it often, and there's a billionusers on LinkedIn and only 1% of
users are posting content, andthose that are are posting it,
you know, at once a week like.
So if you are somebody who evencommits to making a couple
(42:19):
posts a week, you're far andahead.
Your competitors are far andahead other people in the
industry, and so it's a huge,huge underutilized resource
right now, and so you shoulddefinitely take advantage of it.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Thank you so much, Sandrine.
This has been an incrediblyinsightful conversation.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with us today.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Of course, thank you so much for having me.
It was really fun to have thisconversation.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with us today, of course,
thank you so much for having me.
It was really fun to have thisconversation.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
I appreciate it.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you're not alreadysubscribed, please do so on
Apple, spotify or wherever youget your podcasts, and don't
forget to leave us a review sowe know how we're doing.
I'm Akego Okoye and you havebeen listening to African
Business Stories.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com