Sarah Dusek's entrepreneurial journey reads like an adventure novel – from studying law in the UK to selling her glamping company for over $100 million and then dedicating herself to funding female entrepreneurs across Africa. Her story proves that business can be the most powerful vehicle for driving meaningful change in the world.
After a heartfelt connection with Zimbabwe during her nonprofit days addressing the AIDS crisis, Sarah experienced a profound sense of belonging that would later draw her back to the continent. When her nonprofit work felt incomplete, she made a pivotal realization: perhaps business, rather than charity, could create more sustainable impact.
This mindset shift led her through several entrepreneurial ventures, including the devastating failure of her first business during the 2008 financial crisis. Rather than surrender to conventional employment, Sarah and her husband relocated to Montana and bootstrapped what would become Under Canvas – luxury safari-inspired accommodations near America's national parks. The business struggled initially until Sarah made the crucial decision to pursue venture capital rather than continue growing slowly.
"I realized I couldn't play small," Sarah explains. "If this business was going to last and build something of value, significance, and impact, we had to go big or go home." This perspective shift catapulted Under Canvas to a successful exit, but the fundraising journey exposed Sarah to the challenges female founders face in accessing capital.
True to a promise she made herself during those difficult fundraising days, Sarah created Enygma Ventures after her exit – a fund exclusively backing female entrepreneurs across Africa. Her investment philosophy prioritizes determined founders who demonstrate exceptional execution abilities above revolutionary ideas.
Today, Sarah continues building with Few and Far, a regenerative travel company developing eco-lodges in South African wilderness areas. Her message to female entrepreneurs remains consistent: think bigger, don't let anyone tell you no, and remember that when women create and distribute wealth, only good things happen.
Subscribe for more conversations with the pioneering entrepreneurs reshaping Africa's business landscape and driving continental transformation through bold, innovative ventures.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
With more female entrepreneurs than any other
region in the world.
Women are at the heart ofAfrica's transformation.
Welcome to African BusinessStories, the show that amplifies
the voices of femaleentrepreneurs shaping Africa's
business landscape.
I'm your host, ekego Koye.
Here we explore bold ideas,strategies for scaling and the
(00:25):
realities of building businessesthat drive economic development
.
These stories will provideinsights into Africa's business
landscape, practical tools forgrowth and the inspiration to
navigate your ownentrepreneurial journey.
Be sure to subscribe, rate andshare.
Neuro journey Be sure tosubscribe, rate and share On the
(00:49):
show.
Today I chat with Sarah Dusik,serial entrepreneur, investor
and author of Thinking Bigger, apitch deck formula for women
who want to change the world.
After building and selling hersecond company under Canvas for
over $100 million, sarahlaunched Enigma Ventures, a VC
(01:09):
fund investing exclusively infemale entrepreneurs across
Africa.
We talk about her journey fromstudying law in the UK to
working in nonprofits acrossZimbabwe and Asia, how failure
and resilience shaped her pathto entrepreneurship and what it
took to scale and exit asuccessful business.
Sarah shares why she believesbusiness can be a force for good
(01:32):
, what she looks for wheninvesting in African founders,
and how her new venture, few andFar, is redefining travel and
climate action in Africa.
It's a conversation aboutcourage, capital and creating
lasting impact.
Let's get into it.
Hi Sarah, welcome to AfricanBusiness Stories.
Hello, nice to see you.
(01:54):
I'm so glad that we get to havethis conversation.
It was lovely to meet you inperson in September, I think it
was in New York.
Yes, yeah.
Yeah, that was really nice.
September, I think it was inNew York.
Yes, yeah, yeah, that wasreally nice.
Just starting way, way back, Iknow you were born in England,
in Gloucestershire, and I wonderwhat that experience was like
for you and if there are any funmemories you'd like to share
(02:15):
with us today.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I grew up in a small town in Gloucestershire in the
UK, lived a fairly average,fairly normal middle class life
in the UK.
I would never have consideredmyself an outdoors person or
someone who liked reallyhardcore outdoor pursuits.
Yet I have spent the last 15years of my life building
(02:37):
outdoor travel companies, whichfeels a little ironic.
The closest I ever got tocamping as a child was my
parents had a caravan that wewould perilously drive down to
Cornwall in the south of thecountry every year and camp in
the caravan, usually in the rainin England for a couple of
weeks in the summer every year,and that was as close to camping
(03:00):
camping as I ever got.
So it was quite a strange thinglater in life to build a
glamping company.
That's maybe not surprising,given that I'd never really been
a camper.
But yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So how did you come to choose law as a degree?
I read that you studied law atuniversity.
I did.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
And I have reflected on that a lot over the last 30
years since studying law.
Because I never practiced law,I did not go on to become a
lawyer, but I distinctlyremember the instinct of wanting
to fight the bad guys and takeon injustices in the world.
(03:40):
I was an avid watcher of LA lawin the 80s and of course the
British legal system isabsolutely nothing like the US
legal system whatsoever.
But I got enamored with thisidea of these powerful people
waltzing into courtrooms andfighting for justice and
fighting crime and taking on bigcases with lots of things at
(04:04):
stake.
And I think there was somethingabout my justice gene was
awakened by watching Americanlegal dramas.
I had this crazy idea that Ishould become a lawyer and so
hence I had decided to study lawat university.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So what did you do after university?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I did the most obvious thing you could possibly
do.
After graduating with a lawdegree from university in
England, I decided I would gowork for a non-profit
organization in Africa, whichwas, of course, a very natural
progression.
And of course, my parents werevery happy about that, because
(04:46):
they had just spent all thismoney putting me through
university and trying to get meinto a great university and get
a great degree.
And of course I'm saying I wantto go work for a non-profit
organization, I'm going tovolunteer, I'm not even going to
have a job, I'm going to workfor free and I'm going to go
live in Africa.
Wow, which did not go down.
(05:06):
I can imagine my mother wasterrified.
We talk about having terriblestereotypes.
She said you could go anywhereand do anything.
Why do you have to go to Africa?
And my answer at the time was Ijust have this strong sense of
calling, I just want to go.
I want to go and I want to dothings that are meaningful and
(05:27):
impactful.
And I definitely had a saviormentality going on in my head
and sometimes I still do which Ihave to keep in check, but the
idea of wanting to be able tomake a difference and solve big
world problems and I arrived onthe continent to work in
Zimbabwe for an organizationthat was doing HIV and AIDS
(05:51):
education across the country andI wanted to help solve the AIDS
crisis of the 90s, which, ofcourse, was probably at its peak
at that time, was one of theworld's biggest pressing
problems and I wanted to getstuck in and make a difference.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So how long were you in Zimbabwe?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
for I was there for two years and I actually was
planning on spending many moreyears there because I absolutely
fell in love.
I fell in love with Africa, Ifell in love with Zimbabwe, I
fell in love with the people, Ifell in love with my life living
in Zimbabwe and it was a verystrange phenomenon actually,
because for the first time in mylife, I felt like I belonged
(06:34):
somewhere.
First time in my life, I feltlike I belonged somewhere.
Wow, very strange thing to sayas a person coming from another
country who really doesn'tbelong there.
It wasn't my home country, itwasn't where I was from and
certainly racially I wasobviously in the minority, but
it felt like a place that waswhere my soul was and I felt at
(06:56):
home.
I felt like I belonged, I feltlike I was doing work that I
cared about and was meaningfuland I loved my life.
So it was heartbreaking.
Zimbabwe started to fall apartin my second year due to
complicated political issues.
And the organization I workedfor decided that all foreign
workers had to leave because itwas too dangerous for us to stay
(07:19):
and too complicated for theorganization to keep us.
When, when it was difficult andtrying times, and so I was
heartbreaking I just had myheart set on staying forever,
and it wasn't to be.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Wow, that must have been quite an experience forever
and it wasn't to be.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Wow.
That must have been quite anexperience.
It was I learned.
This is my claim to fame.
I learned, living in zimbabwehow to siphons fuel out of my
car which is really quitechallenging actually, and if you
do it wrong, you get a mouthfulof fuel I know, I know I've
done it.
Yes, exactly if you're african,you know what I'm talking about.
(08:00):
I do know how to do thesethings.
You know how to do these things, um yeah, so that's.
Yeah, I had a full roundeducation in zimbabwe.
Let's put it that way, that'sincredible.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
So you leave and you go on to do some other amazing
things.
You live in different parts ofthe world, you get married so
exciting and then you start yourforay into entrepreneurship.
I'm itching to talk about UnderCanvas, but I know that you did
some business before that and Iwant you to talk to us a bit
about the business you had inEngland and how you then came to
(08:34):
move to the US.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, I spent about eight years in total working for
NGOs around the world, as Isaid, first in Zimbabwe and then
in the Far East, and afterabout eight years I realized we
weren't solving the root causeof any of the problems we were
trying to address through theagencies that I worked for, and
I really felt I was burned out.
I was tired, was exhausted andfrustrated that I personally
wasn't making as much differenceas I wanted to and I wasn't
(09:03):
feeling like we were drivingchange in the way that I wanted
to, which took me on a bit of ajourney to explore new pathways.
And I remember distinctlythinking at the time maybe the
vehicle that I'm in is not theright vehicle which started me
thinking about what would be theright vehicle for driving
change and making a difference.
(09:24):
If it's not this, what is it?
And that started me on my pathtowards exploring social
entrepreneurship and the idea ofbusinesses being a vehicle for
doing good and driving change.
I knew nothing about running abusiness.
I knew nothing about you knowother than you were supposed to
sell something and you weresupposed to be able to make that
(09:46):
thing cost less than you couldsell it for and make some profit
.
That was as rudimentary as itwas for me, because I had come
from the nonprofit world, somaking money had not been really
on my radar at all and I eventhought that making money was,
was a dark side, it's evil andeverything that was wrong with
the world was about when it wasat the fault of capitalism.
(10:08):
And so it was quite a sort of amind shift for me to start
thinking about.
Could business actually be avehicle that does good?
Could it help solve some of ourbig world problems?
So I went and got a master'sdegree.
I ended up writing a thesis onthat very question could
business be used as a vehiclefor good?
And yes, was my resoundinganswer.
(10:28):
This was before the time ofimpact investing.
It was before many of thethings that are commonplace
today in the way that we wouldthink and talk about business
did not.
That language didn't exist then.
But I remember thinking, if Ido think this now, then we I
probably should learn.
We should learn how to go intobusiness.
I probably should try andfigure out actually running a
(10:48):
business and making thingshappen.
So that sort of impetus.
I had gone back to the UK,where I am from.
I married my amazing Americanhusband and we set out to try
our hand at creating a socialbusiness, which was a fantastic
little business and was goinggreat guns until the great
(11:13):
financial crash of 2007 and 8rolled around and pretty much
wiped out.
So we had our first businessadventure and we had our first
business failure, all within acouple of years.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Wow, so that business fails, and is that the reason
why you moved to the US?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, it was the impetus actually where he lost
everything.
We had our first child.
Well, actually I was expectingour first child and realized the
business that we're doing nowneeds to fall again and off.
We trotted to the US, myhusband's from Montana.
(11:58):
We moved to Montana and startedover and started thinking, OK,
what are we going to do now?
And do we want to pursueanother business?
How are we going to moveforward?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
So Sarah, just going back a little, what was it like?
What do you feel like losingthat business and what gives you
the courage to try again?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Maybe I'll answer the last question first, because I
don't know that I would havecalled it courage at the time.
I would have called itnecessity.
And so we had this dream ofbeing able to do something
meaningful in the world and beable to contribute to being
pioneers and dream makers andmaking things happen, and at the
(12:37):
same time, desperately neededto earn a living Right.
And neither of us I had justhad a baby and so we had a small
child, and it just didn't feelright to think about OK, let's
just go get a job.
That felt almost worse thanlosing our business and losing
what we've been doing.
It felt like if we'd have saidOK, now I've got to go get a job
(13:00):
over, it's really over.
Like the dream is over.
Not just the business is over,but the dream is also over.
I think in some ways the dreamgave us courage, the necessity
gave us courage, the dream gaveus courage, the necessity gave
us courage, and I have learnedover my life that failure is not
the end.
(13:20):
Failure is often just thebeginning of a new chapter and a
new, and it very much dependingon how you reframe it and
depending on how you think aboutit, it can be a beautiful new
beginning and every failure islearning right.
We learned so much from thatfirst business and so much about
(13:41):
what works, what doesn't work,what works for us personally in
figuring out our own roles, withworking with each other, and it
was a very painful and veryexpensive learning curve, but it
was that it was a learningcurve and at the time didn't
feel like we had much choiceother than to pick ourselves up.
We had a new baby, so we got toget on and make something of
(14:02):
ourselves here and make ourlives work.
That's what we did Wow.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So you moved to Montana, and what was this next
business idea?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah.
My husband said, okay, that's,my parents have a farm and ranch
in Montana.
Let's go camp out with them andfigure out how to earn a living
off the land without farming.
His parents were still farmingand he just had this idea that
there was some other way that wecould earn a living from the
land without doing what theywere doing and could we take
(14:31):
what we had left and what we hadavailable to us, which, in our
case, was family.
(14:52):
So we had a roof over our headsand we had this land that they
I had discovered in Africa,which was falling in love with
these extraordinary big skies,huge wild empty spaces, lots of
incredible wildlife and reallyextraordinary scenery.
Is there something a synergybetween these two places?
And that I could connect thedots?
(15:13):
And, of course, the safariexperience was what helped could
connect the dots and, of course, the safari experience was what
helped me connect the dots andit sparked an idea which was
could we recreate the safariexperience like in Africa and
bring something like that to theUnited States?
So that sort of helped usinitiate thinking about this,
the idea of glamping andutilizing the farm and seeing if
(15:34):
we could bring people out tostay there.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I know that the business went through many
iterations before it became whatis today known as under canvas.
So can you talk us through someof those iterations and how you
had to pivot to finally becomeunder canvas?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yes, we were, of course course, hoping that right
out of the gate, our nextbusiness idea would be a slam
dunk and that it would workreally well and that we'd be
able to earn a living and allwould be well above the world.
And nothing was farther fromthe truth, because we came up
for the idea of recreating thesafari experience and we created
(16:13):
a very small camp on myhusband's farm, family farm,
hoped and prayed for the phoneto ring, built great site, took
great photos, waited for thepeople to come, and small
amounts of people came, but notpeople in their droves.
It was really difficult to makethe business work with just not
as much sort of traffic and asmomentum as we were getting, and
(16:37):
so we realized we were going tohave to, we have to do
something.
It wasn't quite working like wewere hoping, so pivot number
one was transitioning tobecoming event rental company.
So we had amazing tents.
Could we then take them aroundthe country for people's
weddings and family reunions andall those kind of things?
So we took what we had builtand said, okay, can we do
(16:58):
something different with this?
And then eventually, of course,said something different again
and said, okay, now we've gotthis and can we do something
different with this.
So we ended up pivoting aboutthree times before Under Canvas
finally became the businessmodel that ultimately we were
able to scale and grow.
So I think that means I think Ihad at least four failed
businesses before under Canvas.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Some people say pivoting is another word for
failing forward.
I've heard that expression.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
It is, but every time you pivot you make adjustments,
and every time you make anadjustment it brings you,
hopefully, closer to somethingthat sticks and something that
works, and this model that isgoing to take off.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
So tell us about Under Canvas.
So what was this final winningidea?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
So we ended up creating tented hotels outside
of national parks across America.
Wow, and that's what UnderCanvas is doing today.
And so we started our firstnational park camp down in
Yellowstone in Montana andcreated a very temporary, very
(18:05):
small tented hotel and we hopedand prayed that people would.
We had no idea whether peoplewould pay to stay in a tent like
they would to stay in a hoteland a regular hotel with regular
walls and air conditioning andheating and all these good
things.
So it was a complete experiment, but it was one that captured
(18:26):
the hearts of the Americanpeople and off we were to the
races.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So what was it like scaling and growing that
business?
Oh, it was exceptionally easy.
What was it like scaling andgrowing that business?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Oh, it was exceptionally easy.
No, it was fraught.
It was fraught with difficultyfrom beginning to end, because
it's easy to imagine when youthink, okay, I've finally done
it, I finally found a businessmodel that I think is the one
that's going to work.
I'm now on to something.
I've thrown something at thewall and it's sticking.
(18:57):
And then, of course, no businessis profitable overnight and
every business needs some formof capital injection to enable
it to grow.
You have to be able to putmoney into something to be able
to make more money.
That's a very sad reality, butit's true and we knew from our
(19:19):
first season in yallastown.
We put up 35 tents our firstseason in yallastown and we I we
could have sold so much more.
There was a lot of demand, soit was chaotic and the tents
weren't engineered well enoughto stand up through inclement
weather and the business wasvery rudimentary, like light
years away from where thecompany is today.
(19:42):
But we just knew that we wereonto something and we knew that
we had a good idea and we knewthat there was possibility here.
There were, there waspossibility here, and so the
hard part then was like figuringout okay, how are we?
How are we gonna?
How are we gonna grow this?
How are we gonna perfect this?
How are we gonna make thisbusiness work?
(20:04):
And for the longest time webootstrapped the business.
We plowed every bit, of everycent that we made in the
business.
We plowed it back into thebusiness and we got several bank
loans, which really helped usget going.
But it meant we were living ona shoestring and it meant that
we were very close to the wire alot of the time, which was
(20:28):
exceptionally stressful.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So at what stage did you then become profitable?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
That first year, after putting 35 tents up and
running the camp for the year Iwould define profitable, loosely
but we ended that summer withabout fifty thousand dollars in
the bank.
And so now I've got to get withfifty thousand dollars in the
bank, I've got to get with$50,000 in the bank.
(20:53):
I've got to get through fromSeptember all the way through
till May the next year, andideally we've got to pay people
and we've got to pay for someoneto live personally and we've
got to grow, professionalize thebusiness, grow the business.
Technically, we had money atthe end of that first year, but
(21:16):
it certainly was not reallyenough to get us through to that
next year.
It was a challenging, it was avery challenging time, for sure.
So what did scale then looklike?
Yeah, that's a great question,because it's easy to think when
we think about scale and I havethis conversation with
entrepreneurs all the time it'seasy to think okay, when I've
got something, I have to perfectit and make it perfect and then
(21:41):
scale it.
And I did not do that.
We immediately thought, oh,we're onto something, we should
do more of this.
And yes, we should put moretents up in Yellowstone and, yes
, we should perfect the productin Yellowstone.
But something in me I don'tknow whether it was just an
instinct or feeling like gosh,we're onto something and if we
(22:02):
don't do it, other people aregoing to do it.
We started immediately thinkingabout how could we be in other
locations, how could we do moresites.
So we started looking for oursecond and third sites and
thinking about where we mightput another under campus.
Next, which was crazy, becausethat first year there were six
(22:22):
people employed in the businessand my husband and I were two of
them, which meant there werefour of the seasonal people in
the business with us.
It wasn't a lot.
And I remember saying to one ofmy staff members at the end of
that first season he said to meare you going to do this again?
Are you going to put thesetents up again next year?
And I said yeah, I am, and I'mgoing to do more.
(22:44):
And he said more, more, like howmany more?
Thinking I was going to put 10more tents up.
And I said I think I'm going todo at least 50 more and I'm
going to open another site.
And he looked at me like I wasabsolutely crazy and he had no
idea how I was going to pullthat off.
And I had no idea how I wasgoing to pull that off, but I
just had a sense of if we'regoing to do this, we've got to
(23:09):
do this and we've got to be allin and we've got to think big
and we've got to go for broke.
So that's what.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
So how many years did you run under Canvas?
Almost a decade, a full decade.
So you then came to a pointwhere you exited the business.
Yes, talk to us about that.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, we launched in 2009 and we sold the business at
the very end of 2018.
And I stayed on as CEO for onemore year after that.
So we spent the decade growingand scaling and
professionalizing the business,and when we sold, I wasn't
planning on selling.
We were actually raising morecapital to try and grow and
continue to scale the business.
(23:50):
An investment firm came alongand said they would like to buy
the business.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
So that's what happened.
Did I read that there wassomeone else who tried to buy
the business before that?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
You might have read that someone else had my idea
for my business and they wereout trying to raise funding for
their business idea, whichultimately was the prompt that I
needed to help me think aboutgoing out for venture capital.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I see.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And I don't know if that hadn't have happened, I
don't know if we'd have builtthe company that we built.
So a competitor coming into ourspace effectively was a
catalyst for thinking about okay, we've got to go raise some
money because otherwise we'regoing to get outspent and we're
not going to be able to grow asfast.
And I'm going to need to reallythink about how do I build a
(24:44):
big business here?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
That's interesting because a lot of times
especially, we're going to cometo your Africa work but you now
deal with women who are buildingbusinesses and a lot of times
women are very reluctant to takein VC funding.
So it's interesting that youfound yourself in a similar
place, but the thought ofcompetition and what it could do
to this big idea you had gaveyou the impetus to go for it.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
It did, because I realized I'm going to get left
in the dust Like I've got agreat idea, I'm already making
it work, we're already doingseveral million dollars of
revenue.
But if someone comes alongwho's much better funded and
takes my idea and can just do ita little bit better than me
because they got more money thanme, then my I'm going to go out
(25:28):
of business.
So it felt like an impetus tolike no go, you've got to go big
or go home and you can't affordI can't afford to play at this.
That was really the instinct Ihad is I got to play with big
boys.
If I'm going to do this and ifthis business is going to last
and we're going to buildsomething of value and of
(25:48):
significance and of impact, thenwe can't play it small and we
can't think okay, I'll just keepgoing at the rate that my funds
will allow me to grow.
Because that was the criticalthing I realized really was that
I couldn't grow fast enoughwith just using the debt that I
was able to raise and theprofits that we were able to
(26:11):
generate.
We couldn't do enough quickenough.
We couldn't grow fast enough.
So that became a verysignificant catalyst for me
thinking about.
We've got to put money intothis business and if I don't put
money in, I might lose thisbusiness because I might get
overtaken by a competitor.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
It's very interesting .
So, sarah, after you sold UnderCanvas, you made a major shift
into VC, into the venturecapital world.
I thought it was interestingthat, off the bat, you were
specifically focused on femaleentrepreneurs in Africa.
So what inspired thistransition?
I think two things.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
One was my experience of raising funding as a female
founder was very difficult.
I remember thinking at the timethat I was maybe the only woman
in the world that didn't knowwhat range capital was and
didn't know all the rules abouthow it all works and all the
terms and all the sort ofterminology, and I also remember
(27:13):
feeling like it felt very hardfor me as it felt like I didn't
belong.
I said at the beginning of thisinterview that when I first went
to Zimbabwe I just felt like Iutterly felt like I was didn't
belong.
I said at the beginning of thisinterview that when I first went
to Zimbabwe I just felt like Iutterly belonged and I was where
I was supposed to be.
And it felt like being a femalefounder trying to raise money
(27:34):
in a man's world felt like Ididn't belong and I felt like I
wasn't speaking the rightlanguage, wasn't using the right
words, I didn't really know howto play the game and there was
a definite game being played andI just felt like I was an
outsider.
And so I had a sort of fairlyharrowing journey over a couple
(27:55):
of year period of trying toraise money and struggling to do
that and then, when I was inthe midst of doing it,
discovered I was having to dealwith people and their values and
ways of doing business that Ididn't like and did not sit well
with me.
I remember thinking to myselfif I ever build something of
value, if I ever managed to doanything of any significance
(28:19):
with this business, invest infemale entrepreneurs.
I'm going to be the investorthat that I was looking for yeah
and that I need, I wanted and Ihoped that I was going to find
so.
When we ultimately did sell thebusiness, we made good on that
promise with the sense of we'regoing to invest in female
entrepreneurs, and my sole homehas always felt like it's been
(28:42):
on the African continent.
So when we looked at the venturespace globally and even in the
US, venture funds for women werefew and far between.
So we knew we wanted to do that, but we also knew that we
thought we could make more of adifference.
We felt like we couldcontribute.
We felt like we could inputinto a community in a way that
(29:07):
could be meaningful.
And when we looked at how muchventure capital was being
deployed on the continentcompared with what was being
deployed in the US, we just feltevery dollar we could
contribute here could go so muchfurther.
So we decided we would make ourway back to the continent as a
family, no longer by myself, butcome back to the continent that
had inspired our business ideaand I had fallen in love with 25
(29:29):
years earlier, and come backand build a life here for our
own family and see if we couldcontribute in a meaningful way,
this time through a for-profitvehicle rather than a non-profit
vehicle.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
That's an incredible story.
So what was it liketransitioning the family to?
So you're in South Africa now?
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
It was more difficult than I'd anticipated and easier
in some ways.
Of course, we arrived justbefore the pandemic, just a few
months before the pandemic.
So the whole world went intocomplete shutdown.
It wasn't necessarily a veryeasy transition, but I remember
stepping off the plane and itwas raining the night that we
(30:08):
arrived and for those of you whoknow and love the continent,
you'll know what I mean when Isay.
I stepped out of the airportand I could smell the rain.
Of rain on rain on African soilfor some reason just smells
different here than it doesanywhere else in the world.
It does, it really does, and Idon't know why that is, but I
(30:30):
knew when I got here and I justcould smell the rain that I was
home.
And we've been on the continentnow for the last six years
doing work here for the last sixyears.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
That's incredible.
Just talking about choosing toinvest on the continent, a lot
of it was wanting to have impact, like you said, and having your
impact go further.
But a lot of times, foreigninvestors look at the continent
as a high risk market and I justwonder you know, you've been
there for quite a few years nowhow do you approach risk when it
(31:03):
comes to deciding whatcompanies to invest in?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, it's interesting because obviously
every country on the continenthas effectively a different risk
profile.
Its currencies behavedifferently, its economics
behave differently.
Easy to assume the continent isone country when it's not.
Yes, or with very differenteconomies and very different
systems and governance and manythings.
(31:29):
And I think for me what I hadn'tnecessarily understood then but
do understand now is africa isa bit like silicon valley, like
the early days of Silicon Valley, like 50 years ago in the 80s
and 90s, before the precom era,and the ecosystem is just young,
and part of the risk of thecontinent is there's not enough
(31:55):
capital in the system yet and weactually I think we actually
de-risk the continent by pouringmore money into the continent,
by more money coming into theecosystem.
Part of what makes the USventure capital scene so
valuable and so successful isjust the sheer amount of money
in the ecosystem that can allowfor loss and can allow for big
(32:20):
wins, and that's the venturemodel anyway.
The venture model is you expectone in 10 to be doing
fantastically well and the restto do average and a handful to
do to be nothing, and so youdon't expect every business to
be a win.
You expect many to fail, butlike one in 10 seeds to succeed,
(32:41):
and the same is true.
It's happening here on thecontinent.
You know none of that is anydifferent, but for some reason
we just think the risk is somuch greater here.
Risk for venture is the riskfor venture, and actually the
more money and the moreresources there are in the
ecosystem, the more likely weare to see great success stories
and the more likely we are tosee great things happen on the
(33:03):
continent.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
So you sell your company, you take part of that
money to start this fund.
Yes, so how do you close theknowledge gap as a fund manager?
Because one thing to have themoney is another thing to know
how to properly execute and runthe fund.
So how did you close yourknowledge gap?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
I closed my knowledge gap.
The way I always close myknowledge gap, which is by doing
I love it I do.
You don't know how to run abusiness, right, so you just get
on and do it and you makemistakes along the way, but you
figure it out.
It's not really any differentthan getting a very expensive
Ivy League education right.
(33:43):
You just you learn fasterbecause you learn the hard way,
and I seem to have a propensityto wanting to do everything the
hard way.
That's how I do that.
We learn, we fail, we get backup again, we figure out.
Oh no, we shouldn't have doneit quite like that.
Let's adjust and just like withgrowing under canvas.
We've been very blessed byworking with some very amazing,
(34:08):
gracious founders who havehelped us learn as much through
on our journey as I hope we'vebeen able to help them on theirs
.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
So how many companies are in your portfolio today?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
We have invested in 14, 14 companies and what's the
mix?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I know that a lot of investments go into tech.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah we've definitely got a lot of tech too.
We've got some consumer goods.
We've got some e-commerceplatforms.
We've got some.
Ai We've got some ed tech, okay, yeah, and fintech a whole
mixture of things but the corethesis of our fund is that we
have always backed femaleentrepreneurs.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
What industries do you think have the?
I don't know if it's a fairquestion to ask, but I'll ask it
anyway.
Which industries do you thinkhave the most potential?
That's an easy question toanswer.
Okay, go on.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
There is potential in any direction that you look,
because there's such a hugeopportunity.
There is such a funding gap andthere is so much leapfrogging
to be done on this continent inalmost every direction.
Obviously, historically therehave been what is considered to
(35:20):
be a hot investment and that'salways true in venture, wherever
you are.
We go through fintech phases,and then we go through AI phases
, and then health tech's reallyhot, and then something else is
cryptos in or whatever it is.
(35:44):
But my perspective, what'sreally fantastic for the
continent is business solutionsthat solve big problems that
affect millions of people.
So if you have a business thatis solving the problem that
affects millions of people everysingle day, you've got
something.
And if you can build thatsolution so that you can easily
reach millions of people everysingle day, marvelous, fantastic
.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
So what criteria do you look at when you're deciding
which business to back?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
We spend a lot of time developing our criteria in
the early days, but one of thethings I have quickly learned is
that actually, the entrepreneuris infinitely more important
than the business idea.
So obviously, the business idea,as I just said, needs to be big
enough, needs to havesignificant impact enough, but I
(36:27):
would rather take an averageidea that has scope, that could
affect a lot of people, that'sbeing executed by an outstanding
entrepreneur, than anever-been-done-before,
never-been-seen-before,never-created wild and wonderful
idea by an average human, anoutstanding entrepreneur, and
never been done before, neverbeen seen before, never created
wild and wonderful idea by anaverage human.
And so I am looking for spark,I'm looking for drivenness, I'm
(36:52):
looking for, like obsession withsolving a problem and a
demonstration of ability toexecute that you were convincing
me through your past or throughwhat you're doing right now,
that you are the one.
You are the one, you are theone to solve this particular
small little problem over herethat potentially affects
(37:13):
millions of people, and that youare going to execute and make
it happen.
Because, at the end of the day,businesses are only as good as
the people who execute them andmake them happen.
Because, at the end of the day,businesses are only as good as
the people who execute them andmake them happen.
So that's the real nugget ofgoal for me is looking for great
executors and hungry,determined people who aren't
(37:33):
going to give up very easilybecause the entrepreneurial
journey is very hard, but peoplewho will find a way to keep
getting back up even after theyget knocked down.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I wanted to ask you about advice for women who are
trying to raise money, but Ithink that's a great place to
bring in your book, because Ithink that's what it's all about
.
So you wrote this book ThinkingBigger a pitch deck formula for
women who want to change theworld.
Let's start by what inspiredyou to write this book.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
It came about because of having spent so much time
working with so many femaleentrepreneurs, and the more work
I did and the more time I spentwith female entrepreneurs, the
more I realized the things Ididn't know as a founder.
most women don't know, and therules of the game were not only
(38:22):
not clear to me, they're notclear to most women, and I found
myself constantly hearingpitches of women who were either
thinking too small or too slowor not understanding what was
going to be most important to me, to impress me as an investor.
And I realized, gosh, I couldput all this information down in
(38:44):
one place and I tell my ownstory and my own struggle and my
own learnings at the same timeand hopefully simplify simplify
all the core ideas through thepitch deck.
A pitch deck is typically 10pages of how you introduce your
business to potential investorsand how you tell us your story
(39:07):
and how you hopefully attractpeople to invest in you.
And that sparked an idea for me, which was could I help other
women tell their stories?
Could I help them understandwhat's not only supposed to be
on that page?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Could I help them understand what's not only
supposed to be on that page, buthow to think about building and
scaling a business that couldactually be investable?
And that sparked the idea fortelling the story and for trying
to create language for whatmany of us are trying to do but
don't necessarily know how to doit.
There's a quote in your bookit's earlier on where you say
women need to not only be amongthose building wealth, but also
become the ones distributing it.
I had a conversation withanother fund manager who has the
same kind of thinking and Iwonder are there mindset shifts
that you feel women should havewhen it comes to pitching for
(40:04):
funding?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
I often think there are so many, and I have tried to
weave through the book as manymindsets as I possibly can for
helping women understand hey,here's a paradigm shift that you
might want to think about.
But I think, going back to yourearlier point, I think one of
the most critical things for mewas recognizing that it's just
(40:28):
as I struggled with this thatmaking money is a good thing for
women to do, it's not a badthing.
And you don't like women.
No bad thing happens when womenhave more money.
Only bad thing happens whenwomen have more money.
Only good things happen whenwomen have more money.
And it's really important thatwe sit at table and have a voice
(40:52):
and have influence.
And how do you do that?
Well, you typically have tohave some economic gravitas to
have a seat at the table right.
So it's really important thatwomen think about building
wealth and being distributors ofwealth and, of course,
(41:12):
historically women have beengood charitable givers.
They've been historically lessso at being wealth creators, and
I want to see more women becomewealth creators and wealth
distributors, because I thinkwhen women sit at the table, we
drive different outcomes.
(41:32):
We drive different results andwe are infinitely more likely to
enable the change that many ofus want to see.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
I like that.
So what are two or three of thebiggest takeaways you hope
readers will gain from thinkingbigger?
Speaker 2 (41:49):
I hope women will feel encouraged that they can.
I hope they will not only justfeel encouraged, but feel like
they have the tools to show them, enable them to do it.
I hope women will come awayfeeling more confident,
believing in themselves andbelieving that if I can, they
(42:09):
can too.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Fantastic, but there's no rest, for Sarah is
there Because you started a newventure.
You started a new venturecalled Few and Far, and I saw it
described as a net positivetravel company.
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yes, so we are building a new travel company
because I really do love traveland trying to build this time a
regenerative company so acompany that's very existent is
about creating impact and abouttrying to move the world forward
.
So we are developing largescale wilderness areas to
(42:50):
restore them and rewild them, tosequest more carbon from them
and create extraordinary ecolodging resorts to enable folks
to have incredible experiencesin the world.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Where is this located , so?
Speaker 2 (43:03):
our first lodge is in a part of South Africa that is
pretty much off the beaten mapbut is an extraordinary area of
biodiversity and very criticalhabitat on so many levels, and
it's in Limpopo in South Africa,in what we call the Forgotten
Mountains, and we just opened,just before Christmas.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Fantastic.
So what excites you most aboutthis new chapter of your journey
?
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I definitely love being in the ring.
I definitely love the challengeand the adrenaline that it is
to solve problems every day andtry and make things happen.
And I love the idea of being ona mission again to see if we
can build a big business, see ifwe can do some good, see if we
can drive some change and createa brand that will be here for
(43:53):
many years to come.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Fantastic.
I heard you say first lodge, sosounds like you're going to
multiply this.
Of course we're going to try.
Yes, indeed, we certainly areAwesome.
This has been so great.
I wish you all the best, withfew and far, and I hope that I
can visit one day as well.
We're looking forward to havingyou.
That would be great.
That would be great.
So, in wrapping up, sarah, Inormally ask my guests to do two
(44:16):
things One is reflection andone is advice things One is
reflection and one is advice.
So, in terms of reflecting,this is an opportunity for you
to pat yourself on the back.
Just looking back at all thatyou've built over the last
couple of years, what would yousay is one, or maybe even two,
of your proudest moments?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
I definitely think writing a book was something I
had dreamed about since my early20s and finally getting to see
that come to life last year wasreally rewarding and really
special.
That is definitely right upthere.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
In terms of advice.
What advice would you give toother women who are building
businesses or trying to scalebusinesses in Africa?
I would definitely say thinkbigger.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Don't be afraid to have crazy, wild dreams.
Don't let anyone tell you, no,that you can't, because if you
can dream it, you can build it.
Dream big, think big.
Don't let your own ceiling holdyou back.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Thank you so much, Sarah.
So where can our listeners findyour book and how can they
connect with you?
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, my book is on Amazon around the world.
You can.
The best way to connect with meis through my own website,
sarahhdusickcom.
There's an email on there, infoat sarahhdusickcom, and you can
reach out to me that way.
That's probably the best.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Fantastic.
Thank you so much, sarah.
This has been a greatconversation.
Thanks so much for having me.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you're not alreadysubscribed, please do so on
Apple, spotify or wherever youget your podcasts, and don't
forget to leave us a review sowe know how we're doing.
I'm Akego Okoye and you havebeen listening to African
(45:59):
Business Stories.
With more female entrepreneurs than any other
region in the world.
Women are at the heart ofAfrica's transformation.
Welcome to African BusinessStories, the show that amplifies
the voices of femaleentrepreneurs shaping Africa's
business landscape.
I'm your host, ekego Koye.
Here we explore bold ideas,strategies for scaling and the
(00:25):
realities of building businessesthat drive economic development
.
These stories will provideinsights into Africa's business
landscape, practical tools forgrowth and the inspiration to
navigate your ownentrepreneurial journey.
Be sure to subscribe, rate andshare.
Neuro journey Be sure tosubscribe, rate and share On the
(00:49):
show.
Today I chat with Sarah Dusik,serial entrepreneur, investor
and author of Thinking Bigger, apitch deck formula for women
who want to change the world.
After building and selling hersecond company under Canvas for
over $100 million, sarahlaunched Enigma Ventures, a VC
(01:09):
fund investing exclusively infemale entrepreneurs across
Africa.
We talk about her journey fromstudying law in the UK to
working in nonprofits acrossZimbabwe and Asia, how failure
and resilience shaped her pathto entrepreneurship and what it
took to scale and exit asuccessful business.
Sarah shares why she believesbusiness can be a force for good
(01:32):
, what she looks for wheninvesting in African founders,
and how her new venture, few andFar, is redefining travel and
climate action in Africa.
It's a conversation aboutcourage, capital and creating
lasting impact.
Let's get into it.
Hi Sarah, welcome to AfricanBusiness Stories.
Hello, nice to see you.
(01:54):
I'm so glad that we get to havethis conversation.
It was lovely to meet you inperson in September, I think it
was in New York.
Yes, yeah.
Yeah, that was really nice.
September, I think it was inNew York.
Yes, yeah, yeah, that wasreally nice.
Just starting way, way back, Iknow you were born in England,
in Gloucestershire, and I wonderwhat that experience was like
for you and if there are any funmemories you'd like to share
(02:15):
with us today.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I grew up in a small town in Gloucestershire in the
UK, lived a fairly average,fairly normal middle class life
in the UK.
I would never have consideredmyself an outdoors person or
someone who liked reallyhardcore outdoor pursuits.
Yet I have spent the last 15years of my life building
(02:37):
outdoor travel companies, whichfeels a little ironic.
The closest I ever got tocamping as a child was my
parents had a caravan that wewould perilously drive down to
Cornwall in the south of thecountry every year and camp in
the caravan, usually in the rainin England for a couple of
weeks in the summer every year,and that was as close to camping
(03:00):
camping as I ever got.
So it was quite a strange thinglater in life to build a
glamping company.
That's maybe not surprising,given that I'd never really been
a camper.
But yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So how did you come to choose law as a degree?
I read that you studied law atuniversity.
I did.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
And I have reflected on that a lot over the last 30
years since studying law.
Because I never practiced law,I did not go on to become a
lawyer, but I distinctlyremember the instinct of wanting
to fight the bad guys and takeon injustices in the world.
(03:40):
I was an avid watcher of LA lawin the 80s and of course the
British legal system isabsolutely nothing like the US
legal system whatsoever.
But I got enamored with thisidea of these powerful people
waltzing into courtrooms andfighting for justice and
fighting crime and taking on bigcases with lots of things at
(04:04):
stake.
And I think there was somethingabout my justice gene was
awakened by watching Americanlegal dramas.
I had this crazy idea that Ishould become a lawyer and so
hence I had decided to study lawat university.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So what did you do after university?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I did the most obvious thing you could possibly
do.
After graduating with a lawdegree from university in
England, I decided I would gowork for a non-profit
organization in Africa, whichwas, of course, a very natural
progression.
And of course, my parents werevery happy about that, because
(04:46):
they had just spent all thismoney putting me through
university and trying to get meinto a great university and get
a great degree.
And of course I'm saying I wantto go work for a non-profit
organization, I'm going tovolunteer, I'm not even going to
have a job, I'm going to workfor free and I'm going to go
live in Africa.
Wow, which did not go down.
(05:06):
I can imagine my mother wasterrified.
We talk about having terriblestereotypes.
She said you could go anywhereand do anything.
Why do you have to go to Africa?
And my answer at the time was Ijust have this strong sense of
calling, I just want to go.
I want to go and I want to dothings that are meaningful and
(05:27):
impactful.
And I definitely had a saviormentality going on in my head
and sometimes I still do which Ihave to keep in check, but the
idea of wanting to be able tomake a difference and solve big
world problems and I arrived onthe continent to work in
Zimbabwe for an organizationthat was doing HIV and AIDS
(05:51):
education across the country andI wanted to help solve the AIDS
crisis of the 90s, which, ofcourse, was probably at its peak
at that time, was one of theworld's biggest pressing
problems and I wanted to getstuck in and make a difference.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So how long were you in Zimbabwe?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
for I was there for two years and I actually was
planning on spending many moreyears there because I absolutely
fell in love.
I fell in love with Africa, Ifell in love with Zimbabwe, I
fell in love with the people, Ifell in love with my life living
in Zimbabwe and it was a verystrange phenomenon actually,
because for the first time in mylife, I felt like I belonged
(06:34):
somewhere.
First time in my life, I feltlike I belonged somewhere.
Wow, very strange thing to sayas a person coming from another
country who really doesn'tbelong there.
It wasn't my home country, itwasn't where I was from and
certainly racially I wasobviously in the minority, but
it felt like a place that waswhere my soul was and I felt at
(06:56):
home.
I felt like I belonged, I feltlike I was doing work that I
cared about and was meaningfuland I loved my life.
So it was heartbreaking.
Zimbabwe started to fall apartin my second year due to
complicated political issues.
And the organization I workedfor decided that all foreign
workers had to leave because itwas too dangerous for us to stay
(07:19):
and too complicated for theorganization to keep us.
When, when it was difficult andtrying times, and so I was
heartbreaking I just had myheart set on staying forever,
and it wasn't to be.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Wow, that must have been quite an experience forever
and it wasn't to be.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Wow.
That must have been quite anexperience.
It was I learned.
This is my claim to fame.
I learned, living in zimbabwehow to siphons fuel out of my
car which is really quitechallenging actually, and if you
do it wrong, you get a mouthfulof fuel I know, I know I've
done it.
Yes, exactly if you're african,you know what I'm talking about.
(08:00):
I do know how to do thesethings.
You know how to do these things, um yeah, so that's.
Yeah, I had a full roundeducation in zimbabwe.
Let's put it that way, that'sincredible.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
So you leave and you go on to do some other amazing
things.
You live in different parts ofthe world, you get married so
exciting and then you start yourforay into entrepreneurship.
I'm itching to talk about UnderCanvas, but I know that you did
some business before that and Iwant you to talk to us a bit
about the business you had inEngland and how you then came to
(08:34):
move to the US.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, I spent about eight years in total working for
NGOs around the world, as Isaid, first in Zimbabwe and then
in the Far East, and afterabout eight years I realized we
weren't solving the root causeof any of the problems we were
trying to address through theagencies that I worked for, and
I really felt I was burned out.
I was tired, was exhausted andfrustrated that I personally
wasn't making as much differenceas I wanted to and I wasn't
(09:03):
feeling like we were drivingchange in the way that I wanted
to, which took me on a bit of ajourney to explore new pathways.
And I remember distinctlythinking at the time maybe the
vehicle that I'm in is not theright vehicle which started me
thinking about what would be theright vehicle for driving
change and making a difference.
(09:24):
If it's not this, what is it?
And that started me on my pathtowards exploring social
entrepreneurship and the idea ofbusinesses being a vehicle for
doing good and driving change.
I knew nothing about running abusiness.
I knew nothing about you knowother than you were supposed to
sell something and you weresupposed to be able to make that
(09:46):
thing cost less than you couldsell it for and make some profit
.
That was as rudimentary as itwas for me, because I had come
from the nonprofit world, somaking money had not been really
on my radar at all and I eventhought that making money was,
was a dark side, it's evil andeverything that was wrong with
the world was about when it wasat the fault of capitalism.
(10:08):
And so it was quite a sort of amind shift for me to start
thinking about.
Could business actually be avehicle that does good?
Could it help solve some of ourbig world problems?
So I went and got a master'sdegree.
I ended up writing a thesis onthat very question could
business be used as a vehiclefor good?
And yes, was my resoundinganswer.
(10:28):
This was before the time ofimpact investing.
It was before many of thethings that are commonplace
today in the way that we wouldthink and talk about business
did not.
That language didn't exist then.
But I remember thinking, if Ido think this now, then we I
probably should learn.
We should learn how to go intobusiness.
I probably should try andfigure out actually running a
(10:48):
business and making thingshappen.
So that sort of impetus.
I had gone back to the UK,where I am from.
I married my amazing Americanhusband and we set out to try
our hand at creating a socialbusiness, which was a fantastic
little business and was goinggreat guns until the great
(11:13):
financial crash of 2007 and 8rolled around and pretty much
wiped out.
So we had our first businessadventure and we had our first
business failure, all within acouple of years.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Wow, so that business fails, and is that the reason
why you moved to the US?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, it was the impetus actually where he lost
everything.
We had our first child.
Well, actually I was expectingour first child and realized the
business that we're doing nowneeds to fall again and off.
We trotted to the US, myhusband's from Montana.
(11:58):
We moved to Montana and startedover and started thinking, OK,
what are we going to do now?
And do we want to pursueanother business?
How are we going to moveforward?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
So Sarah, just going back a little, what was it like?
What do you feel like losingthat business and what gives you
the courage to try again?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Maybe I'll answer the last question first, because I
don't know that I would havecalled it courage at the time.
I would have called itnecessity.
And so we had this dream ofbeing able to do something
meaningful in the world and beable to contribute to being
pioneers and dream makers andmaking things happen, and at the
(12:37):
same time, desperately neededto earn a living Right.
And neither of us I had justhad a baby and so we had a small
child, and it just didn't feelright to think about OK, let's
just go get a job.
That felt almost worse thanlosing our business and losing
what we've been doing.
It felt like if we'd have saidOK, now I've got to go get a job
(13:00):
over, it's really over.
Like the dream is over.
Not just the business is over,but the dream is also over.
I think in some ways the dreamgave us courage, the necessity
gave us courage, the dream gaveus courage, the necessity gave
us courage, and I have learnedover my life that failure is not
the end.
(13:20):
Failure is often just thebeginning of a new chapter and a
new, and it very much dependingon how you reframe it and
depending on how you think aboutit, it can be a beautiful new
beginning and every failure islearning right.
We learned so much from thatfirst business and so much about
(13:41):
what works, what doesn't work,what works for us personally in
figuring out our own roles, withworking with each other, and it
was a very painful and veryexpensive learning curve, but it
was that it was a learningcurve and at the time didn't
feel like we had much choiceother than to pick ourselves up.
We had a new baby, so we got toget on and make something of
(14:02):
ourselves here and make ourlives work.
That's what we did Wow.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So you moved to Montana, and what was this next
business idea?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah.
My husband said, okay, that's,my parents have a farm and ranch
in Montana.
Let's go camp out with them andfigure out how to earn a living
off the land without farming.
His parents were still farmingand he just had this idea that
there was some other way that wecould earn a living from the
land without doing what theywere doing and could we take
(14:31):
what we had left and what we hadavailable to us, which, in our
case, was family.
(14:52):
So we had a roof over our headsand we had this land that they
I had discovered in Africa,which was falling in love with
these extraordinary big skies,huge wild empty spaces, lots of
incredible wildlife and reallyextraordinary scenery.
Is there something a synergybetween these two places?
And that I could connect thedots?
(15:13):
And, of course, the safariexperience was what helped could
connect the dots and, of course, the safari experience was what
helped me connect the dots andit sparked an idea which was
could we recreate the safariexperience like in Africa and
bring something like that to theUnited States?
So that sort of helped usinitiate thinking about this,
the idea of glamping andutilizing the farm and seeing if
(15:34):
we could bring people out tostay there.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I know that the business went through many
iterations before it became whatis today known as under canvas.
So can you talk us through someof those iterations and how you
had to pivot to finally becomeunder canvas?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yes, we were, of course course, hoping that right
out of the gate, our nextbusiness idea would be a slam
dunk and that it would workreally well and that we'd be
able to earn a living and allwould be well above the world.
And nothing was farther fromthe truth, because we came up
for the idea of recreating thesafari experience and we created
(16:13):
a very small camp on myhusband's farm, family farm,
hoped and prayed for the phoneto ring, built great site, took
great photos, waited for thepeople to come, and small
amounts of people came, but notpeople in their droves.
It was really difficult to makethe business work with just not
as much sort of traffic and asmomentum as we were getting, and
(16:37):
so we realized we were going tohave to, we have to do
something.
It wasn't quite working like wewere hoping, so pivot number
one was transitioning tobecoming event rental company.
So we had amazing tents.
Could we then take them aroundthe country for people's
weddings and family reunions andall those kind of things?
So we took what we had builtand said, okay, can we do
(16:58):
something different with this?
And then eventually, of course,said something different again
and said, okay, now we've gotthis and can we do something
different with this.
So we ended up pivoting aboutthree times before Under Canvas
finally became the businessmodel that ultimately we were
able to scale and grow.
So I think that means I think Ihad at least four failed
businesses before under Canvas.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Some people say pivoting is another word for
failing forward.
I've heard that expression.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
It is, but every time you pivot you make adjustments,
and every time you make anadjustment it brings you,
hopefully, closer to somethingthat sticks and something that
works, and this model that isgoing to take off.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
So tell us about Under Canvas.
So what was this final winningidea?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
So we ended up creating tented hotels outside
of national parks across America.
Wow, and that's what UnderCanvas is doing today.
And so we started our firstnational park camp down in
Yellowstone in Montana andcreated a very temporary, very
(18:05):
small tented hotel and we hopedand prayed that people would.
We had no idea whether peoplewould pay to stay in a tent like
they would to stay in a hoteland a regular hotel with regular
walls and air conditioning andheating and all these good
things.
So it was a complete experiment, but it was one that captured
(18:26):
the hearts of the Americanpeople and off we were to the
races.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So what was it like scaling and growing that
business?
Oh, it was exceptionally easy.
What was it like scaling andgrowing that business?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Oh, it was exceptionally easy.
No, it was fraught.
It was fraught with difficultyfrom beginning to end, because
it's easy to imagine when youthink, okay, I've finally done
it, I finally found a businessmodel that I think is the one
that's going to work.
I'm now on to something.
I've thrown something at thewall and it's sticking.
(18:57):
And then, of course, no businessis profitable overnight and
every business needs some formof capital injection to enable
it to grow.
You have to be able to putmoney into something to be able
to make more money.
That's a very sad reality, butit's true and we knew from our
(19:19):
first season in yallastown.
We put up 35 tents our firstseason in yallastown and we I we
could have sold so much more.
There was a lot of demand, soit was chaotic and the tents
weren't engineered well enoughto stand up through inclement
weather and the business wasvery rudimentary, like light
years away from where thecompany is today.
(19:42):
But we just knew that we wereonto something and we knew that
we had a good idea and we knewthat there was possibility here.
There were, there waspossibility here, and so the
hard part then was like figuringout okay, how are we?
How are we gonna?
How are we gonna grow this?
How are we gonna perfect this?
How are we gonna make thisbusiness work?
(20:04):
And for the longest time webootstrapped the business.
We plowed every bit, of everycent that we made in the
business.
We plowed it back into thebusiness and we got several bank
loans, which really helped usget going.
But it meant we were living ona shoestring and it meant that
we were very close to the wire alot of the time, which was
(20:28):
exceptionally stressful.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So at what stage did you then become profitable?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
That first year, after putting 35 tents up and
running the camp for the year Iwould define profitable, loosely
but we ended that summer withabout fifty thousand dollars in
the bank.
And so now I've got to get withfifty thousand dollars in the
bank, I've got to get with$50,000 in the bank.
(20:53):
I've got to get through fromSeptember all the way through
till May the next year, andideally we've got to pay people
and we've got to pay for someoneto live personally and we've
got to grow, professionalize thebusiness, grow the business.
Technically, we had money atthe end of that first year, but
(21:16):
it certainly was not reallyenough to get us through to that
next year.
It was a challenging, it was avery challenging time, for sure.
So what did scale then looklike?
Yeah, that's a great question,because it's easy to think when
we think about scale and I havethis conversation with
entrepreneurs all the time it'seasy to think okay, when I've
got something, I have to perfectit and make it perfect and then
(21:41):
scale it.
And I did not do that.
We immediately thought, oh,we're onto something, we should
do more of this.
And yes, we should put moretents up in Yellowstone and, yes
, we should perfect the productin Yellowstone.
But something in me I don'tknow whether it was just an
instinct or feeling like gosh,we're onto something and if we
(22:02):
don't do it, other people aregoing to do it.
We started immediately thinkingabout how could we be in other
locations, how could we do moresites.
So we started looking for oursecond and third sites and
thinking about where we mightput another under campus.
Next, which was crazy, becausethat first year there were six
(22:22):
people employed in the businessand my husband and I were two of
them, which meant there werefour of the seasonal people in
the business with us.
It wasn't a lot.
And I remember saying to one ofmy staff members at the end of
that first season he said to meare you going to do this again?
Are you going to put thesetents up again next year?
And I said yeah, I am, and I'mgoing to do more.
(22:44):
And he said more, more, like howmany more?
Thinking I was going to put 10more tents up.
And I said I think I'm going todo at least 50 more and I'm
going to open another site.
And he looked at me like I wasabsolutely crazy and he had no
idea how I was going to pullthat off.
And I had no idea how I wasgoing to pull that off, but I
just had a sense of if we'regoing to do this, we've got to
(23:09):
do this and we've got to be allin and we've got to think big
and we've got to go for broke.
So that's what.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
So how many years did you run under Canvas?
Almost a decade, a full decade.
So you then came to a pointwhere you exited the business.
Yes, talk to us about that.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, we launched in 2009 and we sold the business at
the very end of 2018.
And I stayed on as CEO for onemore year after that.
So we spent the decade growingand scaling and
professionalizing the business,and when we sold, I wasn't
planning on selling.
We were actually raising morecapital to try and grow and
continue to scale the business.
(23:50):
An investment firm came alongand said they would like to buy
the business.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
So that's what happened.
Did I read that there wassomeone else who tried to buy
the business before that?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
You might have read that someone else had my idea
for my business and they wereout trying to raise funding for
their business idea, whichultimately was the prompt that I
needed to help me think aboutgoing out for venture capital.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I see.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And I don't know if that hadn't have happened, I
don't know if we'd have builtthe company that we built.
So a competitor coming into ourspace effectively was a
catalyst for thinking about okay, we've got to go raise some
money because otherwise we'regoing to get outspent and we're
not going to be able to grow asfast.
And I'm going to need to reallythink about how do I build a
(24:44):
big business here?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
That's interesting because a lot of times
especially, we're going to cometo your Africa work but you now
deal with women who are buildingbusinesses and a lot of times
women are very reluctant to takein VC funding.
So it's interesting that youfound yourself in a similar
place, but the thought ofcompetition and what it could do
to this big idea you had gaveyou the impetus to go for it.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
It did, because I realized I'm going to get left
in the dust Like I've got agreat idea, I'm already making
it work, we're already doingseveral million dollars of
revenue.
But if someone comes alongwho's much better funded and
takes my idea and can just do ita little bit better than me
because they got more money thanme, then my I'm going to go out
(25:28):
of business.
So it felt like an impetus tolike no go, you've got to go big
or go home and you can't affordI can't afford to play at this.
That was really the instinct Ihad is I got to play with big
boys.
If I'm going to do this and ifthis business is going to last
and we're going to buildsomething of value and of
(25:48):
significance and of impact, thenwe can't play it small and we
can't think okay, I'll just keepgoing at the rate that my funds
will allow me to grow.
Because that was the criticalthing I realized really was that
I couldn't grow fast enoughwith just using the debt that I
was able to raise and theprofits that we were able to
(26:11):
generate.
We couldn't do enough quickenough.
We couldn't grow fast enough.
So that became a verysignificant catalyst for me
thinking about.
We've got to put money intothis business and if I don't put
money in, I might lose thisbusiness because I might get
overtaken by a competitor.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
It's very interesting .
So, sarah, after you sold UnderCanvas, you made a major shift
into VC, into the venturecapital world.
I thought it was interestingthat, off the bat, you were
specifically focused on femaleentrepreneurs in Africa.
So what inspired thistransition?
I think two things.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
One was my experience of raising funding as a female
founder was very difficult.
I remember thinking at the timethat I was maybe the only woman
in the world that didn't knowwhat range capital was and
didn't know all the rules abouthow it all works and all the
terms and all the sort ofterminology, and I also remember
(27:13):
feeling like it felt very hardfor me as it felt like I didn't
belong.
I said at the beginning of thisinterview that when I first went
to Zimbabwe I just felt like Iutterly felt like I was didn't
belong.
I said at the beginning of thisinterview that when I first went
to Zimbabwe I just felt like Iutterly belonged and I was where
I was supposed to be.
And it felt like being a femalefounder trying to raise money
(27:34):
in a man's world felt like Ididn't belong and I felt like I
wasn't speaking the rightlanguage, wasn't using the right
words, I didn't really know howto play the game and there was
a definite game being played andI just felt like I was an
outsider.
And so I had a sort of fairlyharrowing journey over a couple
(27:55):
of year period of trying toraise money and struggling to do
that and then, when I was inthe midst of doing it,
discovered I was having to dealwith people and their values and
ways of doing business that Ididn't like and did not sit well
with me.
I remember thinking to myselfif I ever build something of
value, if I ever managed to doanything of any significance
(28:19):
with this business, invest infemale entrepreneurs.
I'm going to be the investorthat that I was looking for yeah
and that I need, I wanted and Ihoped that I was going to find
so.
When we ultimately did sell thebusiness, we made good on that
promise with the sense of we'regoing to invest in female
entrepreneurs, and my sole homehas always felt like it's been
(28:42):
on the African continent.
So when we looked at the venturespace globally and even in the
US, venture funds for women werefew and far between.
So we knew we wanted to do that, but we also knew that we
thought we could make more of adifference.
We felt like we couldcontribute.
We felt like we could inputinto a community in a way that
(29:07):
could be meaningful.
And when we looked at how muchventure capital was being
deployed on the continentcompared with what was being
deployed in the US, we just feltevery dollar we could
contribute here could go so muchfurther.
So we decided we would make ourway back to the continent as a
family, no longer by myself, butcome back to the continent that
had inspired our business ideaand I had fallen in love with 25
(29:29):
years earlier, and come backand build a life here for our
own family and see if we couldcontribute in a meaningful way,
this time through a for-profitvehicle rather than a non-profit
vehicle.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
That's an incredible story.
So what was it liketransitioning the family to?
So you're in South Africa now?
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
It was more difficult than I'd anticipated and easier
in some ways.
Of course, we arrived justbefore the pandemic, just a few
months before the pandemic.
So the whole world went intocomplete shutdown.
It wasn't necessarily a veryeasy transition, but I remember
stepping off the plane and itwas raining the night that we
(30:08):
arrived and for those of you whoknow and love the continent,
you'll know what I mean when Isay.
I stepped out of the airportand I could smell the rain.
Of rain on rain on African soilfor some reason just smells
different here than it doesanywhere else in the world.
It does, it really does, and Idon't know why that is, but I
(30:30):
knew when I got here and I justcould smell the rain that I was
home.
And we've been on the continentnow for the last six years
doing work here for the last sixyears.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
That's incredible.
Just talking about choosing toinvest on the continent, a lot
of it was wanting to have impact, like you said, and having your
impact go further.
But a lot of times, foreigninvestors look at the continent
as a high risk market and I justwonder you know, you've been
there for quite a few years nowhow do you approach risk when it
(31:03):
comes to deciding whatcompanies to invest in?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, it's interesting because obviously
every country on the continenthas effectively a different risk
profile.
Its currencies behavedifferently, its economics
behave differently.
Easy to assume the continent isone country when it's not.
Yes, or with very differenteconomies and very different
systems and governance and manythings.
(31:29):
And I think for me what I hadn'tnecessarily understood then but
do understand now is africa isa bit like silicon valley, like
the early days of Silicon Valley, like 50 years ago in the 80s
and 90s, before the precom era,and the ecosystem is just young,
and part of the risk of thecontinent is there's not enough
(31:55):
capital in the system yet and weactually I think we actually
de-risk the continent by pouringmore money into the continent,
by more money coming into theecosystem.
Part of what makes the USventure capital scene so
valuable and so successful isjust the sheer amount of money
in the ecosystem that can allowfor loss and can allow for big
(32:20):
wins, and that's the venturemodel anyway.
The venture model is you expectone in 10 to be doing
fantastically well and the restto do average and a handful to
do to be nothing, and so youdon't expect every business to
be a win.
You expect many to fail, butlike one in 10 seeds to succeed,
(32:41):
and the same is true.
It's happening here on thecontinent.
You know none of that is anydifferent, but for some reason
we just think the risk is somuch greater here.
Risk for venture is the riskfor venture, and actually the
more money and the moreresources there are in the
ecosystem, the more likely weare to see great success stories
and the more likely we are tosee great things happen on the
(33:03):
continent.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
So you sell your company, you take part of that
money to start this fund.
Yes, so how do you close theknowledge gap as a fund manager?
Because one thing to have themoney is another thing to know
how to properly execute and runthe fund.
So how did you close yourknowledge gap?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
I closed my knowledge gap.
The way I always close myknowledge gap, which is by doing
I love it I do.
You don't know how to run abusiness, right, so you just get
on and do it and you makemistakes along the way, but you
figure it out.
It's not really any differentthan getting a very expensive
Ivy League education right.
(33:43):
You just you learn fasterbecause you learn the hard way,
and I seem to have a propensityto wanting to do everything the
hard way.
That's how I do that.
We learn, we fail, we get backup again, we figure out.
Oh no, we shouldn't have doneit quite like that.
Let's adjust and just like withgrowing under canvas.
We've been very blessed byworking with some very amazing,
(34:08):
gracious founders who havehelped us learn as much through
on our journey as I hope we'vebeen able to help them on theirs
.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
So how many companies are in your portfolio today?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
We have invested in 14, 14 companies and what's the
mix?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I know that a lot of investments go into tech.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah we've definitely got a lot of tech too.
We've got some consumer goods.
We've got some e-commerceplatforms.
We've got some.
Ai We've got some ed tech, okay, yeah, and fintech a whole
mixture of things but the corethesis of our fund is that we
have always backed femaleentrepreneurs.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
What industries do you think have the?
I don't know if it's a fairquestion to ask, but I'll ask it
anyway.
Which industries do you thinkhave the most potential?
That's an easy question toanswer.
Okay, go on.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
There is potential in any direction that you look,
because there's such a hugeopportunity.
There is such a funding gap andthere is so much leapfrogging
to be done on this continent inalmost every direction.
Obviously, historically therehave been what is considered to
(35:20):
be a hot investment and that'salways true in venture, wherever
you are.
We go through fintech phases,and then we go through AI phases
, and then health tech's reallyhot, and then something else is
cryptos in or whatever it is.
(35:44):
But my perspective, what'sreally fantastic for the
continent is business solutionsthat solve big problems that
affect millions of people.
So if you have a business thatis solving the problem that
affects millions of people everysingle day, you've got
something.
And if you can build thatsolution so that you can easily
reach millions of people everysingle day, marvelous, fantastic
.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
So what criteria do you look at when you're deciding
which business to back?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
We spend a lot of time developing our criteria in
the early days, but one of thethings I have quickly learned is
that actually, the entrepreneuris infinitely more important
than the business idea.
So obviously, the business idea,as I just said, needs to be big
enough, needs to havesignificant impact enough, but I
(36:27):
would rather take an averageidea that has scope, that could
affect a lot of people, that'sbeing executed by an outstanding
entrepreneur, than anever-been-done-before,
never-been-seen-before,never-created wild and wonderful
idea by an average human, anoutstanding entrepreneur, and
never been done before, neverbeen seen before, never created
wild and wonderful idea by anaverage human.
And so I am looking for spark,I'm looking for drivenness, I'm
(36:52):
looking for, like obsession withsolving a problem and a
demonstration of ability toexecute that you were convincing
me through your past or throughwhat you're doing right now,
that you are the one.
You are the one, you are theone to solve this particular
small little problem over herethat potentially affects
(37:13):
millions of people, and that youare going to execute and make
it happen.
Because, at the end of the day,businesses are only as good as
the people who execute them andmake them happen.
Because, at the end of the day,businesses are only as good as
the people who execute them andmake them happen.
So that's the real nugget ofgoal for me is looking for great
executors and hungry,determined people who aren't
(37:33):
going to give up very easilybecause the entrepreneurial
journey is very hard, but peoplewho will find a way to keep
getting back up even after theyget knocked down.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I wanted to ask you about advice for women who are
trying to raise money, but Ithink that's a great place to
bring in your book, because Ithink that's what it's all about
.
So you wrote this book ThinkingBigger a pitch deck formula for
women who want to change theworld.
Let's start by what inspiredyou to write this book.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
It came about because of having spent so much time
working with so many femaleentrepreneurs, and the more work
I did and the more time I spentwith female entrepreneurs, the
more I realized the things Ididn't know as a founder.
most women don't know, and therules of the game were not only
(38:22):
not clear to me, they're notclear to most women, and I found
myself constantly hearingpitches of women who were either
thinking too small or too slowor not understanding what was
going to be most important to me, to impress me as an investor.
And I realized, gosh, I couldput all this information down in
(38:44):
one place and I tell my ownstory and my own struggle and my
own learnings at the same timeand hopefully simplify simplify
all the core ideas through thepitch deck.
A pitch deck is typically 10pages of how you introduce your
business to potential investorsand how you tell us your story
(39:07):
and how you hopefully attractpeople to invest in you.
And that sparked an idea for me, which was could I help other
women tell their stories?
Could I help them understandwhat's not only supposed to be
on that page?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Could I help them understand what's not only
supposed to be on that page, buthow to think about building and
scaling a business that couldactually be investable?
And that sparked the idea fortelling the story and for trying
to create language for whatmany of us are trying to do but
don't necessarily know how to doit.
There's a quote in your bookit's earlier on where you say
women need to not only be amongthose building wealth, but also
become the ones distributing it.
I had a conversation withanother fund manager who has the
same kind of thinking and Iwonder are there mindset shifts
that you feel women should havewhen it comes to pitching for
(40:04):
funding?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
I often think there are so many, and I have tried to
weave through the book as manymindsets as I possibly can for
helping women understand hey,here's a paradigm shift that you
might want to think about.
But I think, going back to yourearlier point, I think one of
the most critical things for mewas recognizing that it's just
(40:28):
as I struggled with this thatmaking money is a good thing for
women to do, it's not a badthing.
And you don't like women.
No bad thing happens when womenhave more money.
Only bad thing happens whenwomen have more money.
Only good things happen whenwomen have more money.
And it's really important thatwe sit at table and have a voice
(40:52):
and have influence.
And how do you do that?
Well, you typically have tohave some economic gravitas to
have a seat at the table right.
So it's really important thatwomen think about building
wealth and being distributors ofwealth and, of course,
(41:12):
historically women have beengood charitable givers.
They've been historically lessso at being wealth creators, and
I want to see more women becomewealth creators and wealth
distributors, because I thinkwhen women sit at the table, we
drive different outcomes.
(41:32):
We drive different results andwe are infinitely more likely to
enable the change that many ofus want to see.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
I like that.
So what are two or three of thebiggest takeaways you hope
readers will gain from thinkingbigger?
Speaker 2 (41:49):
I hope women will feel encouraged that they can.
I hope they will not only justfeel encouraged, but feel like
they have the tools to show them, enable them to do it.
I hope women will come awayfeeling more confident,
believing in themselves andbelieving that if I can, they
(42:09):
can too.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Fantastic, but there's no rest, for Sarah is
there Because you started a newventure.
You started a new venturecalled Few and Far, and I saw it
described as a net positivetravel company.
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yes, so we are building a new travel company
because I really do love traveland trying to build this time a
regenerative company so acompany that's very existent is
about creating impact and abouttrying to move the world forward
.
So we are developing largescale wilderness areas to
(42:50):
restore them and rewild them, tosequest more carbon from them
and create extraordinary ecolodging resorts to enable folks
to have incredible experiencesin the world.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Where is this located , so?
Speaker 2 (43:03):
our first lodge is in a part of South Africa that is
pretty much off the beaten mapbut is an extraordinary area of
biodiversity and very criticalhabitat on so many levels, and
it's in Limpopo in South Africa,in what we call the Forgotten
Mountains, and we just opened,just before Christmas.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Fantastic.
So what excites you most aboutthis new chapter of your journey
?
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I definitely love being in the ring.
I definitely love the challengeand the adrenaline that it is
to solve problems every day andtry and make things happen.
And I love the idea of being ona mission again to see if we
can build a big business, see ifwe can do some good, see if we
can drive some change and createa brand that will be here for
(43:53):
many years to come.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Fantastic.
I heard you say first lodge, sosounds like you're going to
multiply this.
Of course we're going to try.
Yes, indeed, we certainly areAwesome.
This has been so great.
I wish you all the best, withfew and far, and I hope that I
can visit one day as well.
We're looking forward to havingyou.
That would be great.
That would be great.
So, in wrapping up, sarah, Inormally ask my guests to do two
(44:16):
things One is reflection andone is advice things One is
reflection and one is advice.
So, in terms of reflecting,this is an opportunity for you
to pat yourself on the back.
Just looking back at all thatyou've built over the last
couple of years, what would yousay is one, or maybe even two,
of your proudest moments?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
I definitely think writing a book was something I
had dreamed about since my early20s and finally getting to see
that come to life last year wasreally rewarding and really
special.
That is definitely right upthere.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
In terms of advice.
What advice would you give toother women who are building
businesses or trying to scalebusinesses in Africa?
I would definitely say thinkbigger.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Don't be afraid to have crazy, wild dreams.
Don't let anyone tell you, no,that you can't, because if you
can dream it, you can build it.
Dream big, think big.
Don't let your own ceiling holdyou back.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Thank you so much, Sarah.
So where can our listeners findyour book and how can they
connect with you?
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, my book is on Amazon around the world.
You can.
The best way to connect with meis through my own website,
sarahhdusickcom.
There's an email on there, infoat sarahhdusickcom, and you can
reach out to me that way.
That's probably the best.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Fantastic.
Thank you so much, sarah.
This has been a greatconversation.
Thanks so much for having me.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you're not alreadysubscribed, please do so on
Apple, spotify or wherever youget your podcasts, and don't
forget to leave us a review sowe know how we're doing.
I'm Akego Okoye and you havebeen listening to African
(45:59):
Business Stories.
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