Demystifying Wine Ratings and Reviews (and Chateneuf du Pape!)

Demystifying Wine Ratings and Reviews with Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe

 

In this episode of After Wine School, hosts Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe, leading wine experts, dive into the topic of wine ratings and reviews. They explain the importance of wine ratings, their history, and how they can guide wine selections. They review a Chateauneuf du Pape wine and discuss the significance and correct usage of wine ratings. The hosts advocate for using ratings judiciously and discuss the pitfalls of crowdsourced reviews. The episode caps off with a wine tasting, highlighting the complexities and unique attributes of the wine. Listeners are encouraged to subscribe and share the podcast, particularly with wine snobs for a dose of humble pie.

 

00:00 Welcome to After Wine School

00:41 Introducing the Hosts and Today's Topic

00:57 Wine Reviews: Chateauneuf du Pape

02:55 Understanding Wine Ratings

08:41 The Evolution of Wine Ratings

11:24 How Wines Get Reviewed

15:17 The Evolution of Wine Critic Practices

15:43 Modern Wine Review Expectations

17:16 The Role of Wine Ratings Today

18:20 Navigating Wine Selections with Reviews

22:12 Crowdsourced Wine Reviews: Pros and Cons

24:06 Understanding Wine Characteristics

25:10 Grenache: A Deep Dive

30:18 Final Thoughts and Farewell

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome to After Wine School, the podcast that demystifies wine and makes it approachable for everyone.
Join Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe, two of the nation's leading wine experts, as they uncork everything you need to know about wine, from picking the right bottle to mastering unforgettable food and wine pairings.
This isn't about stuffy lectures or confusing jargon.

(00:26):
It's about enjoying wine the way it's meant to be.
So grab a glass.
And let's dive in.
Don't forget to subscribe to After Wine School today.
.999Once again, hello and welcome to AfterSchool, the wine podcast. 9 00:00:48,525.999 --> 00:00:50,656 What's today's topic, Keith? Thank you.

(00:50):
I always forget that part.
.999I'm thinking.
You're putting me on the spot here.
I'm thinking wine reviews.
I love it.
Okay.
.9Wine reviews and the wine that we'll be tasting together at the end of the podcast is from Chateauneuf du Pape.
.999It is from the winery Domaine, Tour Saint Michel, and the bottling is called Cuvée.

(01:11):
Deux Sœurs, blend of two sisters.
Wow.
I don't know, no, I don't know how you do that.
I don't know.
So, I am Alana Zerbe, I'm the director of wine education at the Wine School of Philadelphia, and this is my partner, Keith Wallace.
He is the founder and director of the Wine School of Philadelphia. 24 00:01:29,595.999 --> 00:01:39,541 And Keith, we are sponsored, as always, by the National Wine School, the premier education Aspiring Somaliers looking to study online.

(01:40):
They've also asked us to give us.
Give them a disclaimer and put all of the onus on us for any viewpoint, outlook, opinion. 27 00:01:50,865.999 --> 00:02:00,330.9 Those are solely our own, our own personal opinions and do not reflect the opinions or viewpoints of the National Wine School, Wine School of Philadelphia, or any other school.

(02:00):
Frankly, anybody else? Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My mom.
Absolutely not even my dog.
Oh, yeah.
No.
Actually nothing to do with this.
Charles is okay with it.
Olive.
Olive, absolutely.
Absolutely not.
No.
She is no.
She's you have said things that I do not appreciate.
Keith, let me show you.
Oh yes.
Because we go yeah.
This bottle, beautiful bottle, has such an ugly stamp on it.

(02:25):
I don't even know if they can see that, but look at that. 48 00:02:27,221.1 --> 00:02:28,801 I don't know, but you've seen them.
This is this was actually spectacularly bad. 50 00:02:31,100.999 --> 00:02:37,751.001 It was, this was done by a third grader and and they just had to tap this on there because and it's not even like it's off kilter. 51 00:02:37,751.001 --> 00:02:40,361.001 It's Ooh, 93 points, Wine Spectator. 52 00:02:40,821.001 --> 00:02:41,161.001 Now. 53 00:02:42,971.001 --> 00:02:48,621.001 Clearly they did this at the last minute because they were like, somebody realized that this has got a high rating or multiple high ratings. 54 00:02:48,761.001 --> 00:02:49,731.001 And then they but. 55 00:02:49,741.001 --> 00:02:50,971.001 That's a very good rating. 56 00:02:50,981.001 --> 00:02:51,541.001 It is. 57 00:02:51,551.001 --> 00:02:53,711 That's a great wine too, but oh my God. 58 00:02:53,761.001 --> 00:02:54,71.001 Okay. 59 00:02:55,691.001 --> 00:03:04,880.9015 So a couple of things going on here first off what are wine ratings, first of all, why are they important, and I got to say wine ratings used to matter a lot. 60 00:03:05,31.0015 --> 00:03:05,731.0015 a great deal. 61 00:03:07,291.0015 --> 00:03:12,471.0015 White ratings, if take me back to the olden times. 62 00:03:12,481.0015 --> 00:03:25,971.0015 So back when I was a young lad, and I literally is what I was back when I was a young lad, when I was a young little whippersnapper of a wine maker, like it did a good rating made or broke you though. 63 00:03:25,991.0015 --> 00:03:26,341.0015 Sure. 64 00:03:26,541.0015 --> 00:03:27,131.0015 It did. 65 00:03:27,201.0015 --> 00:03:48,314.0405 Like getting like a Robert Parker In the nineties or wine spectator, really it meant when that happened to me, I knew that my career was on the up, right? I knew that at that point, once I had got a 92 and then a 93 rating from from the advocate, wine advocate, and I'm using all this jargon. 66 00:03:48,314.0405 --> 00:04:06,564.0415 Do we, should we describe what the rating system is where we even start off? I'll give my little 101 synopsis that I tell students in a beginning class, because everybody asks, what are readings? Are they useful? And I do talk about how this is a real American invention. 67 00:04:06,774.0415 --> 00:04:12,744.0415 On the hundred point scale, which a lot of Europeans and people in other parts of the world don't even understand. 68 00:04:13,74.0415 --> 00:04:21,944.0415 But Americans immediately know 90 to 100, oh, that's an a, 80 to 89, that's a B, and so on in wine. 69 00:04:21,944.0415 --> 00:04:29,984.0415 There are really three of the most reputable publications that give ratings and those are the ones that you wanna look to. 70 00:04:30,314.0415 --> 00:04:33,569.0415 So we have Wine Spectator, which is the source of that terrible. 71 00:04:34,189.0415 --> 00:04:34,649.0415 Sticker. 72 00:04:34,649.1415 --> 00:04:35,188.9415 Yeah. 73 00:04:35,189.0415 --> 00:04:35,459.0415 Yeah. 74 00:04:35,969.0415 --> 00:04:38,759.0415 Which you don't often see Wine Spectator stickers. 75 00:04:38,959.0415 --> 00:04:41,589.0415 Yeah, no, that was something that they I mean, I know they did it themselves. 76 00:04:41,589.1415 --> 00:04:42,909.0415 Yeah, that was pretty high. 77 00:04:43,619.0415 --> 00:04:44,599.0415 Yeah, it's unusual. 78 00:04:45,89.0405 --> 00:04:48,389.0415 Spectator, Wine Advocate, and Wine Enthusiast. 79 00:04:48,399.0415 --> 00:04:50,422.2281875 So you'll see WA, WE, or WS. 80 00:04:50,422.2281875 --> 00:04:55,938.9415 Those are really the three most highly regarded, and from those, an eight. 81 00:04:56,59.0415 --> 00:05:00,719.0415 88 point or above is going to be absolutely reliable. 82 00:05:00,759.0415 --> 00:05:08,289.0415 It may not be your favorite wine, but you are pretty assured that it is solid winemaking, representative of a region. 83 00:05:08,559.0415 --> 00:05:10,659.042 And there's just it's going to be good juice. 84 00:05:10,949.042 --> 00:05:15,769.043 So you can feel good about that purchase especially if it's in the 15 to 20 range. 85 00:05:16,109.043 --> 00:05:16,979.043 So that's my brief. 86 00:05:16,979.043 --> 00:05:19,959.043 That's my 101 quick and dirty. 87 00:05:19,969.043 --> 00:05:22,579.043 Really an excellent, simple way of saying it. 88 00:05:23,379.043 --> 00:05:23,539.043 I love that. 89 00:05:23,539.143 --> 00:05:29,9.043 And I may also, if I have some time, I may say the worst thing I've ever heard in a wine shop. 90 00:05:29,289.043 --> 00:05:29,779.043 Yeah. 91 00:05:31,9.043 --> 00:05:33,409.043 This was on the main line in Philly. 92 00:05:33,879.043 --> 00:05:34,259.042 Oh no. 93 00:05:34,269.043 --> 00:05:34,979.043 In a wine shop. 94 00:05:34,979.043 --> 00:05:39,569.042 And there was a woman, and most wine buyers are women most consumers. 95 00:05:39,649.042 --> 00:05:40,89.042 That's true. 96 00:05:40,269.043 --> 00:05:42,119.041 And she taught her daughters. 97 00:05:42,189.041 --> 00:05:48,329.042 She said, go into the aisles and find the highest rating. 98 00:05:48,789.042 --> 00:05:50,99.042 And that's what we'll buy. 99 00:05:51,349.042 --> 00:05:52,549.042 Are you serious? I did. 100 00:05:52,629.042 --> 00:05:53,939.042 Oh my, that is awful. 101 00:05:54,399.042 --> 00:05:55,459.042 That is actually awful. 102 00:05:55,559.042 --> 00:05:56,809.042 Not her daughters. 103 00:05:57,579.042 --> 00:06:05,809.042 Oh, children to buy wine purely in the entire store where a bottle had the highest. 104 00:06:05,949.042 --> 00:06:07,259.042 So that's the other end of this. 105 00:06:07,569.042 --> 00:06:07,639.0415 Yeah. 106 00:06:07,639.0415 --> 00:06:08,939.042 This is how not to do it. 107 00:06:08,939.042 --> 00:06:09,899.042 But I just bring it up. 108 00:06:09,939.042 --> 00:06:10,299.042 Okay. 109 00:06:10,299.042 --> 00:06:12,769.0405 And I have cause I do know collectors like that. 110 00:06:12,769.0415 --> 00:06:20,129.0405 And back in the day, when I was a winemaker, I this, and then when the school started, early on, this was pretty common. 111 00:06:20,419.0405 --> 00:06:22,829.0405 People would buy by ratings and that's how they did it. 112 00:06:23,259.0405 --> 00:06:24,329.0395 But the problem is. 113 00:06:24,539.0405 --> 00:06:27,299.0405 Is that you, they don't, didn't understand what the rating is. 114 00:06:27,649.0405 --> 00:06:33,519.0405 No, I want to actually add to your list of great places the most reputable Venice online. 115 00:06:33,619.0405 --> 00:06:34,279.0405 Oh, sure. 116 00:06:34,299.0405 --> 00:06:35,249.0405 They're newer. 117 00:06:35,609.0395 --> 00:06:37,319.04 They've been, they're now as well established. 118 00:06:37,319.04 --> 00:06:42,109.0405 Are they really they've actually really pulled some of the top guns from the other more established. 119 00:06:42,379.0405 --> 00:06:44,799.0405 So they're doing a great job and I trust their reviews. 120 00:06:45,129.0405 --> 00:06:46,929.0405 And notice the ones we didn't mention. 121 00:06:47,894.0405 --> 00:06:52,234.0405 There's a reason so they're all, but so I described it a little bit differently. 122 00:06:52,634.0405 --> 00:06:56,794.0405 And it's, I described that you have to understand what the rating is. 123 00:06:57,324.0405 --> 00:07:02,194.0405 You assume that a rating means that something, that's at 90 to a hundred is excellent. 124 00:07:02,194.0405 --> 00:07:14,834.0405 And that's true, but what it's, what you don't know is that It's not a deliciousness scale, right? It's not a scale of like how delicious is, but actually how, first off, how correct it is. 125 00:07:15,314.0405 --> 00:07:16,574.0405 And then how well done. 126 00:07:16,574.0405 --> 00:07:29,894.0405 It's, it is, and so correctness is very specific, and this is if you were, we actually train how we train sommelier in both our school and actually National International Wine School. 127 00:07:30,284.0405 --> 00:07:33,364.0405 How they train is that typicality. 128 00:07:33,364.0405 --> 00:07:35,14.0405 So each region. 129 00:07:35,524.0405 --> 00:07:39,954.0405 And each grape have very specific, typical flavors. 130 00:07:40,724.0405 --> 00:07:44,264.0405 Grenache, for instance it's going to have this Greek way. 131 00:07:44,274.0405 --> 00:07:45,854.0405 You've got to have a lavender nose. 132 00:07:46,104.0405 --> 00:07:48,124.0405 It's going to be low in acid. 133 00:07:48,134.0405 --> 00:07:51,214.0405 It's got to be high in tannins and medium to high in body. 134 00:07:51,324.0395 --> 00:07:52,564.0405 This is what Grenache is. 135 00:07:53,4.0405 --> 00:07:56,924.0405 So that, so if you're tasting Grenache, it's rated as. 136 00:07:57,229.0405 --> 00:07:57,589.0405 Typical. 137 00:07:57,589.0405 --> 00:08:00,179.0405 So 84 or above, right? Okay. 138 00:08:00,229.0405 --> 00:08:14,109.0395 That means it, this grape is typical, but then if you layer on top of that, say it's from Chateau Neuf du Pope, then, okay, Neuf du Pope that has its own like regional style which is going to be big and fleshy and, it's going to have all, complex. 139 00:08:14,629.0395 --> 00:08:15,659.0385 There's a lot of things going on there. 140 00:08:15,659.0385 --> 00:08:20,9.0395 What's that regional style? So those two things equal a high rating. 141 00:08:20,9.0395 --> 00:08:21,69.0395 So say. 142 00:08:21,634.0395 --> 00:08:26,424.0395 If you don't like grenade, you're not going to like a hundred point grenade. 143 00:08:27,334.0395 --> 00:08:27,554.0395 Exactly. 144 00:08:27,554.1395 --> 00:08:31,967.4395 Just because it's the perfect grenade from Shots of Nifty Pop doesn't mean you're going to like it. 145 00:08:32,137.4395 --> 00:08:33,677.4405 It's a bad, right? You're good. 146 00:08:33,817.4405 --> 00:08:34,627.4405 You're right in my ear. 147 00:08:34,647.4405 --> 00:08:35,107.4395 I'm sorry. 148 00:08:35,137.4395 --> 00:08:35,587.4395 I'm sorry. 149 00:08:35,617.4405 --> 00:08:35,967.44 I know. 150 00:08:35,967.44 --> 00:08:37,407.4405 I get so angry. 151 00:08:37,897.4405 --> 00:08:39,87.4395 So upset about this. 152 00:08:39,467.4395 --> 00:08:41,267.4405 Because it is, it's such a I know. 153 00:08:41,327.4405 --> 00:08:56,972.44 Because for I think this is why the downfall has happened where no people stop paying attention because how many By downfall, you mean like downward trend of consumption? Oh no, I mean by ratings like oh people use less rates. 154 00:08:56,972.44 --> 00:09:02,892.44 So like for instance if you put into Google trend, right? You're tracking how popular certain terms are over time. 155 00:09:03,302.44 --> 00:09:08,352.44 So the term Robert Parker, the most influential wine critic of all times. 156 00:09:08,432.44 --> 00:09:10,662.44 And did He came up with a hundred points. 157 00:09:10,672.44 --> 00:09:11,232.44 He did. 158 00:09:11,242.44 --> 00:09:11,522.44 Yes. 159 00:09:11,532.44 --> 00:09:12,12.44 Yes. 160 00:09:12,72.44 --> 00:09:12,522.44 Absolutely. 161 00:09:12,742.44 --> 00:09:15,842.44 But it was him and Wine Navigate that really cemented the scale. 162 00:09:16,172.44 --> 00:09:30,102.44 And I, people had used other scales or similar scales before him, but he's the one who, if you got in the eighties and nineties, if you got a 92 or 93 from him, your entire inventory got sold out. 163 00:09:30,112.44 --> 00:09:32,582.44 Not just the one that got that rating, but everything else too. 164 00:09:32,952.44 --> 00:09:41,892.44 So I knew when my book when I got those, my wines got high ratings, it wiped out the entire inventory of the winery, Haven's winery, just, we ran out of everything. 165 00:09:42,452.44 --> 00:09:44,632.44 And that meant that, It was fantastic. 166 00:09:44,682.44 --> 00:09:45,82.44 But. 167 00:09:46,312.44 --> 00:09:47,312.44 So I want to come back to that. 168 00:09:47,312.44 --> 00:09:50,672.44 So you were describing typicity and what goes into a rating. 169 00:09:51,2.44 --> 00:09:51,312.44 Yes. 170 00:09:51,342.44 --> 00:09:58,12.44 I want to come back and make sure we talk about how a wine gets rated. 171 00:09:58,342.44 --> 00:09:58,612.4395 Absolutely. 172 00:09:58,612.4395 --> 00:09:59,482.44 Oh, that's a good idea. 173 00:09:59,482.54 --> 00:10:03,652.441 But I do want to get back to why actually, let me just finish off this one thought I have. 174 00:10:03,812.441 --> 00:10:06,302.441 Because what I want to talk about is like a little bit why. 175 00:10:06,897.441 --> 00:10:20,277.441 It's fallen off because why, so wineries, so if, when you did that Google trend, like it used to be that everybody, like the search term for wine advocate or Robert Parker, the wine critic was huge. 176 00:10:20,377.441 --> 00:10:21,547.442 Everybody is about wine. 177 00:10:21,547.442 --> 00:10:25,217.441 They were actually searching for his name and his publication, the wine advocate. 178 00:10:25,912.442 --> 00:10:32,632.442 But now when you do that, wasn't that on the information superhighway? That's exactly right. 179 00:10:32,632.542 --> 00:10:34,422.442 Come on down. 180 00:10:34,882.442 --> 00:10:35,992.4415 It's a whole new world. 181 00:10:35,992.4415 --> 00:10:36,762.442 Yeah, that's right. 182 00:10:36,772.442 --> 00:10:37,132.442 That's right. 183 00:10:37,132.442 --> 00:10:40,892.442 Vice president Gore is here to show you the way everyone's here. 184 00:10:40,892.442 --> 00:10:41,782.4415 I can't make fun of you. 185 00:10:41,782.4415 --> 00:10:42,252.442 I too. 186 00:10:42,352.442 --> 00:10:43,52.441 Yes, I know. 187 00:10:43,112.442 --> 00:10:45,52.4415 I know you're dating superhighway. 188 00:10:45,52.4415 --> 00:10:47,252.441 You're dating yourself as much as me. 189 00:10:47,482.441 --> 00:10:48,832.441 You're bringing yourself down. 190 00:10:48,832.441 --> 00:10:49,812.441 This is just, yeah. 191 00:10:50,382.441 --> 00:10:50,632.441 All right. 192 00:10:50,652.441 --> 00:10:50,992.441 Okay. 193 00:10:51,62.441 --> 00:10:58,887.44 Now this but now if you do the same thing for the last 10 years, There's almost no search for his name or the wine advocate. 194 00:10:58,917.44 --> 00:11:00,117.44 Oh, people don't know who he is. 195 00:11:00,137.44 --> 00:11:09,727.44 The bell curve of this went from nothing in the 70s, 80s or early 80s to really high and now almost back down to nobody knows him. 196 00:11:10,17.439 --> 00:11:15,907.44 And I use that as a, as that nobody knows what wine reviews are anymore and they don't use them anymore. 197 00:11:15,907.44 --> 00:11:17,857.44 So I would like to talk about like. 198 00:11:18,272.44 --> 00:11:23,722.44 Why they should be using them and using them judiciously, but let's talk about, you were, you had a, you want to talk about something first. 199 00:11:24,482.44 --> 00:11:30,512.439 Just as an ancillary topic, you, cause you've mentioned a couple of times that your wine got a rating. 200 00:11:30,702.44 --> 00:11:30,922.44 Yeah. 201 00:11:30,942.44 --> 00:11:34,12.44 How does a wine get a rating? Because I'll probably remember. 202 00:11:34,382.44 --> 00:11:34,942.44 Yes. 203 00:11:35,282.44 --> 00:11:44,752.44 A friend of ours at the New Jersey winery was one of the first, I think it was Spectator, no, it was Enthusiast, gave them the rating. 204 00:11:44,812.439 --> 00:11:50,562.439 I know who it is, but we didn't mention them, and I don't want to give them a Fair enough, we're not going to worry about that. 205 00:11:50,592.439 --> 00:11:50,902.439 Yeah. 206 00:11:51,162.438 --> 00:11:55,117.339 But the point was, it's very unusual for Yeah. 207 00:11:55,397.439 --> 00:11:57,747.439 A winery from an up and coming area. 208 00:11:57,827.439 --> 00:11:58,77.439 Absolutely. 209 00:11:58,497.439 --> 00:12:04,367.439 So could you just give a little bit background on like how you get a wine reviewed by any of these guys? Okay. 210 00:12:04,367.439 --> 00:12:12,947.438 So first of all, it's hard if you're a brand new wine, so what new wine region, even say like New Zealand, it took many years before they started getting reviews. 211 00:12:13,337.438 --> 00:12:16,217.439 Because the thing is, the first thing is there has to be established rules. 212 00:12:16,287.439 --> 00:12:18,477.439 Industry that knows what typicity is. 213 00:12:18,487.439 --> 00:12:24,197.439 You have to say, okay, we all know now what a Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand is, but there was a time that wasn't even known. 214 00:12:24,667.438 --> 00:12:28,447.439 Even by wine critics or wine writers, they didn't know what that should be. 215 00:12:28,897.439 --> 00:12:34,267.438 So once it's established what the expectations are, then you start seeing reviews. 216 00:12:34,597.438 --> 00:12:44,297.439 Now and just to be clear, when you're talking about a benchmark, a typicity for New Zealand's Sauvignon Blanc, that rating is going to be. 217 00:12:45,387.439 --> 00:12:47,857.439 Compared to other New Zealand, not any wine in the world. 218 00:12:47,857.539 --> 00:12:49,107.439 Oh, no. 219 00:12:49,157.439 --> 00:12:49,567.439 Yes. 220 00:12:49,577.439 --> 00:12:50,427.439 You're a hundred percent right. 221 00:12:50,657.439 --> 00:12:56,27.439 The, you are reviewed against because it's about typicity of the grape and the region to combine. 222 00:12:56,277.439 --> 00:12:57,577.438 You are judged by others. 223 00:12:57,677.439 --> 00:12:57,927.439 Yeah. 224 00:12:57,927.439 --> 00:13:04,947.339 So if we know how to establish what Sauvignon Blanc in New Zealand tastes like it's Then we, you get compared to others. 225 00:13:04,987.339 --> 00:13:12,357.339 Now, how you get reviews once there's an established this is what this region does, this is what this, and what they do with this grape. 226 00:13:13,187.339 --> 00:13:15,367.34 It doesn't have to be very good either, mind you. 227 00:13:15,377.34 --> 00:13:18,887.34 There are places that make Carmenier that that, that smell. 228 00:13:19,532.341 --> 00:13:23,252.341 And taste like an ashtray, but you're judged according to that style. 229 00:13:23,792.341 --> 00:13:27,52.341 So yeah, I know. 230 00:13:27,72.341 --> 00:13:27,502.341 I know. 231 00:13:27,502.341 --> 00:13:27,712.341 Yeah. 232 00:13:27,712.341 --> 00:13:35,352.34 And there's places like there are places for Pino, the same thing where they highlight the baby diaper and and that's super gross. 233 00:13:35,382.34 --> 00:13:38,152.34 And this is why I don't talk about typicity in wine 101. 234 00:13:38,222.34 --> 00:13:38,912.34 Yes, exactly. 235 00:13:39,212.341 --> 00:13:39,772.341 Exactly. 236 00:13:40,242.341 --> 00:13:40,652.341 Exactly. 237 00:13:40,652.341 --> 00:13:43,352.341 Cause it gets real weird, real freaky, real quickly. 238 00:13:43,352.341 --> 00:13:44,12.341 And that's true. 239 00:13:44,542.341 --> 00:13:44,942.341 Okay. 240 00:13:45,357.341 --> 00:13:57,447.341 But at that point, when there's a when there's, it's an understanding of what the area does, what grapes they do well how they make it, all these things, and then you really, you don't get reviewed unless you're sending it in. 241 00:13:57,957.341 --> 00:14:03,197.342 Like you have to send in usually two or six bottles. 242 00:14:03,307.342 --> 00:14:06,547.342 And yeah, and you're just pretty much sending it in blind. 243 00:14:06,557.342 --> 00:14:07,767.342 You might send it in to. 244 00:14:08,557.342 --> 00:14:09,117.342 All of them. 245 00:14:09,717.342 --> 00:14:12,307.342 And, and you might do it for years and never get a review. 246 00:14:12,317.342 --> 00:14:25,757.341 Now, this I'm curious about, and I don't think we've talked about this ever, do, are there wineries, I'm sure, today that have PR arms that handle that sort of thing, or? Actually, surprisingly, the answer is yes. 247 00:14:25,807.342 --> 00:14:26,217.342 Okay. 248 00:14:26,307.341 --> 00:14:30,177.342 The larger corporate owned wineries, they have, right? They do. 249 00:14:30,177.342 --> 00:14:31,737.342 They have their, a team that sends it in. 250 00:14:32,177.342 --> 00:14:32,207.342 Okay. 251 00:14:34,362.342 --> 00:14:43,932.342 This part of the wine industry wants to, and does, usually they're tasting things blind or they're tasting things, in, or, in a category they want. 252 00:14:44,192.341 --> 00:14:48,522.342 This is one place where independence, so you would have a negative effect. 253 00:14:48,542.342 --> 00:14:56,592.342 If you have PR people trying to reach out and trying to promote wines, you probably don't have a negative effect because this is the one place. 254 00:14:56,957.342 --> 00:14:57,547.342 Usually. 255 00:14:57,907.342 --> 00:15:03,207.342 And there have been, no, mind you, there have been, there is one specific publication. 256 00:15:03,597.342 --> 00:15:06,57.342 It's easy to Google, figure it out, which one I'm talking about. 257 00:15:06,317.342 --> 00:15:09,797.3425 They got busted where their critics were actually taking bribes. 258 00:15:09,867.3425 --> 00:15:10,177.3425 Yeah. 259 00:15:10,327.3415 --> 00:15:10,527.3415 Yeah. 260 00:15:10,647.3425 --> 00:15:11,657.3425 So these things happen. 261 00:15:12,197.3415 --> 00:15:17,7.3425 And and surprisingly, all these wines wineries, they got all good reviews. 262 00:15:17,367.3425 --> 00:15:20,802.3425 This was a decade ago, and it was a huge problem. 263 00:15:20,802.3425 --> 00:15:21,372.3425 And yeah. 264 00:15:21,372.3425 --> 00:15:26,412.3425 For them and And apparently back in the seventies and eighties perhaps. 265 00:15:26,472.3425 --> 00:15:26,772.3425 Yeah. 266 00:15:26,832.3425 --> 00:15:28,662.3425 It was common in Europe. 267 00:15:28,667.3425 --> 00:15:28,857.3425 Yes. 268 00:15:29,57.3425 --> 00:15:29,217.3425 Occurred. 269 00:15:29,382.3425 --> 00:15:29,862.3425 Yes. 270 00:15:29,862.3425 --> 00:15:35,742.3425 That's to, for a critic to go to a winery, go into the winery, leave the trunk open. 271 00:15:35,802.3425 --> 00:15:35,922.3425 Yep. 272 00:15:35,922.3425 --> 00:15:36,972.3425 Leave the boot open. 273 00:15:37,37.3425 --> 00:15:37,257.3425 Yep. 274 00:15:37,262.3425 --> 00:15:37,452.3425 Yep. 275 00:15:37,542.3425 --> 00:15:40,632.3425 And just with the understanding that will be loaded up. 276 00:15:40,632.3425 --> 00:15:40,902.3425 Yeah. 277 00:15:40,902.3425 --> 00:15:42,252.3425 And you'll get your rating. 278 00:15:42,557.3425 --> 00:15:43,377.3425 Oh, yeah, of course. 279 00:15:43,377.3425 --> 00:15:43,747.3425 Yeah. 280 00:15:43,797.3425 --> 00:15:44,907.3425 And that doesn't happen anymore. 281 00:15:44,907.3425 --> 00:15:58,907.2415 What happens now is that you send, once you start getting good reviews and you get a few, like one or two then there's the expectation that when they come by, when they start coming by your winery to take a look. 282 00:15:59,67.3415 --> 00:15:59,507.3415 Tasting. 283 00:15:59,567.3415 --> 00:16:15,237.3405 So if you're just an anonymous winery sending in your samples, you'll go on and get reviews hopefully you may not, but if you start being established and they really like, and you become really well known, what starts happening is those critics are going to your winery to get barrel samples. 284 00:16:15,757.3415 --> 00:16:20,637.3415 And then they do because they've already, they've independently said you are a great winery. 285 00:16:20,957.3415 --> 00:16:25,177.3415 Now they're going to come and now they expect red carpet. 286 00:16:25,447.3415 --> 00:16:25,787.3415 And. 287 00:16:26,172.3415 --> 00:16:48,842.3415 Oh, and actually I've been I was taking students on a tour and in, this was actually in their own Valley and a very famous wine critic happened to have basically be in the same place as I was, but a couple of days ahead and everyone had stories about the guy and how much, like how he would, he expected everything. 288 00:16:49,662.3415 --> 00:16:52,212.3415 And yeah, so if you're a certain elite level. 289 00:16:52,832.3415 --> 00:16:59,482.3415 Critic you are expecting people to just give you things and, so you're being vetted. 290 00:16:59,812.3415 --> 00:17:00,822.3415 So that's what happens. 291 00:17:01,182.3405 --> 00:17:09,272.3405 So there's a kind of a negative little thing that if you get popular enough, you are actually now obliged to actually kiss the ring. 292 00:17:10,132.3405 --> 00:17:11,212.3405 Yeah. 293 00:17:11,212.4405 --> 00:17:12,592.2415 Yeah. 294 00:17:12,592.3415 --> 00:17:15,522.3415 And that's, that, yeah, that is that, that is now. 295 00:17:16,382.3415 --> 00:17:16,892.3415 Interesting. 296 00:17:16,902.3415 --> 00:17:25,92.3415 It's less common now, just largely because the influence of these wine reviews and wine ratings are, have just plummeted. 297 00:17:25,112.3415 --> 00:17:27,432.3415 No, much fewer people. 298 00:17:27,492.3415 --> 00:17:28,662.3405 But this is how you get a review. 299 00:17:28,692.3405 --> 00:17:29,292.3405 And how. 300 00:17:29,662.3415 --> 00:17:35,82.3415 But at the end of the day, I do think people don't, now don't use them enough. 301 00:17:35,602.3415 --> 00:17:50,642.3415 If they use reviews to thin out the thousands and thousands of wines that are out there, if basically, like if I want a Cabernet Franc from South Africa, they do that incredibly well. 302 00:17:50,642.3415 --> 00:17:51,832.3415 It's a very distinct style. 303 00:17:51,832.4415 --> 00:17:53,692.3415 It's very unctuous, incredibly beautiful. 304 00:17:53,702.3415 --> 00:17:54,612.3415 I love that wine. 305 00:17:55,112.3415 --> 00:17:55,332.3415 But. 306 00:17:56,767.3415 --> 00:18:04,677.3415 It's hard to find South African cabaret fronts in the United States that you may, and you may not recognize the producer at all. 307 00:18:04,737.3415 --> 00:18:08,867.3425 Cause it's very possible to have a producer that you've never heard of pop up into the market. 308 00:18:09,367.3425 --> 00:18:13,357.3425 And the rating helps you that says, Oh, it's got an 88 points. 309 00:18:13,407.3435 --> 00:18:14,477.3435 And it's 30. 310 00:18:14,747.3435 --> 00:18:15,547.3435 Oh, it's typical. 311 00:18:15,687.3435 --> 00:18:15,967.3435 Good. 312 00:18:16,7.3435 --> 00:18:16,727.3435 I want to buy that. 313 00:18:17,367.3435 --> 00:18:19,957.3435 That's something that I think is really a good idea. 314 00:18:20,327.3435 --> 00:18:23,947.343 Oh, it's a 95 point so and yes. 315 00:18:24,27.344 --> 00:18:25,167.343 That is really great. 316 00:18:25,167.343 --> 00:18:30,392.343 If I see a Merlot from Walla Valley gets a 95 points. 317 00:18:30,392.343 --> 00:18:31,572.343 I've never heard of the producer. 318 00:18:31,632.343 --> 00:18:36,182.343 I'm going to, if like a good price, say it's it's a reasonable price point I'm buying it. 319 00:18:36,192.343 --> 00:18:38,52.342 Cause I'm like, Oh, here's a new producer. 320 00:18:38,52.343 --> 00:18:39,162.343 I don't know them. 321 00:18:39,912.342 --> 00:18:41,202.343 I, this is a good shot. 322 00:18:41,242.343 --> 00:18:43,362.3435 It'd be, like this is this somebody else. 323 00:18:43,712.3435 --> 00:18:47,72.3435 A reputable person has already given me an edit. 324 00:18:47,452.3435 --> 00:18:55,142.3435 'cause there's so many I taste more wines and you do too than most anybody ever will in their nobody should taste as much wines as we do. 325 00:18:55,152.3435 --> 00:18:57,82.3435 We, but we drink for a living that's the deal. 326 00:18:57,182.3435 --> 00:19:04,492.3435 So we taste a little bit and you know of a lot of wines, like we may only have an ounce of wine and I drink remarkably less than people think. 327 00:19:04,612.3435 --> 00:19:05,2.3435 Oh, I know. 328 00:19:05,2.3435 --> 00:19:05,572.3435 We do though. 329 00:19:05,842.3435 --> 00:19:06,142.3435 Yes. 330 00:19:06,147.3435 --> 00:19:06,377.3435 And that's. 331 00:19:06,852.3435 --> 00:19:07,422.3435 That's the truth. 332 00:19:07,422.3435 --> 00:19:07,782.3435 Yeah. 333 00:19:08,252.3435 --> 00:19:09,132.3435 I know that's the caveat. 334 00:19:09,132.3435 --> 00:19:09,582.3435 Thank you. 335 00:19:09,582.4435 --> 00:19:15,82.3435 I still lie to my doctor, but, But still you would be surprised. 336 00:19:15,112.3435 --> 00:19:15,582.3435 Yes. 337 00:19:16,142.3435 --> 00:19:22,922.3425 One ounce and just you and I, like both of us, we may teach three or four classes, might be recording things, talking about things. 338 00:19:23,262.3425 --> 00:19:32,302.3425 And what happens is that, yeah, so we try a lot, way more, but even we can't even we don't even try 1 percent of the wines that are released every year. 339 00:19:33,962.3425 --> 00:19:35,802.3425 Even we can't, you need to have an edit. 340 00:19:35,802.3425 --> 00:19:40,772.3425 And I do a lot of the wine buying for the wine school of Philadelphia's and you do as well. 341 00:19:41,62.3425 --> 00:19:49,412.3415 And so how we work that is, yeah, you do have to have, if you don't know a winery or it's new to the market, you do need that edit. 342 00:19:49,422.3415 --> 00:19:52,592.3415 Like it just says, Hey, this is an important winery that you don't know about. 343 00:19:52,922.3425 --> 00:19:53,922.3425 You should look at them. 344 00:19:54,297.3425 --> 00:20:04,297.3435 And that's what I think reviews are and I think it's a good way of having a healthy edit along with the edit of the wine shop that you're looking at anyways, but that's just something I, I do recommend. 345 00:20:04,867.3435 --> 00:20:06,427.3425 And I think it's worth saying. 346 00:20:07,357.3435 --> 00:20:15,407.3435 Being that we are mostly working from Pennsylvania, a control state we do not have the option. 347 00:20:15,777.3435 --> 00:20:25,667.2435 Most stores, you cannot go to the manager and rely on that person to get to know your personal taste and show you need to get in. 348 00:20:25,827.3435 --> 00:20:40,697.3415 So I think what you're saying is really true that in, in especially that kind of setting, most people in the free world get to go to a wine shop and can converse and find, Oh, I really, my palate is the same as this person's. 349 00:20:40,697.3415 --> 00:20:42,967.3435 And I really like what this person has shown me. 350 00:20:43,37.3415 --> 00:20:43,197.3415 Yeah. 351 00:20:43,877.3415 --> 00:20:45,617.3425 We don't get to do that by and large. 352 00:20:45,827.3425 --> 00:20:47,577.3425 Ratings are pretty critical. 353 00:20:47,647.3425 --> 00:20:48,437.3425 That's true. 354 00:20:48,557.3425 --> 00:20:49,207.3425 Oh, that's great. 355 00:20:49,207.3425 --> 00:20:50,367.3425 And that's a very valid point. 356 00:20:50,367.3425 --> 00:20:59,587.3435 But I think in a, maybe a future podcast, we can talk about why I don't trust, and I don't think people should trust the recommendations at wine stores either, but that's. 357 00:21:00,447.3435 --> 00:21:02,27.3445 I'm Backing into that. 358 00:21:02,497.3445 --> 00:21:27,817.344 Something I do tell my, 101 students because I'm impressing upon them that there are three solid, nationally, internationally recognized, that when you go to a wine shop and it says Harry's Thursday night pick, you can keep walking unless Harry, unless you know that you have built a relationship with this person, you have a similar palate. 359 00:21:27,887.344 --> 00:21:29,97.344 But that's true too. 360 00:21:29,97.444 --> 00:21:29,732.244 And. 361 00:21:30,122.344 --> 00:21:31,522.244 Yeah, I'll just leave it there. 362 00:21:31,522.344 --> 00:21:32,472.344 That's absolutely. 363 00:21:32,762.344 --> 00:21:33,682.344 I have way more. 364 00:21:33,712.344 --> 00:22:03,742.244 I think we should bring this up again because I know the, cause the deep dark secrets of like graft and the the pay to play that most wine shops, especially the ones I used to consult for the chain I used to was very dirty recommendations were not to be trusted, but, and that's why like I do like these, so yeah I, No one uses wine ratings as much as they used to use it in the wrong way and, yeah how they function in, a healthy way. 365 00:22:04,72.344 --> 00:22:09,212.344 Marketplace, how do you, how you can use it to buy great wines. 366 00:22:09,212.344 --> 00:22:10,622.344 I think those are all valid points. 367 00:22:10,632.344 --> 00:22:22,132.3445 Is there anything else you want to talk about? Just one thing any crowdsourcing type of review, seller tracker there's the app that everybody uses that I don't use. 368 00:22:22,132.3445 --> 00:22:25,266.898 I can't, I know what you're talking about, but again, I'm not going to give their name. 369 00:22:25,266.898 --> 00:22:26,830.462 I don't want to give them a name. 370 00:22:26,830.462 --> 00:22:27,416.7985 Whenever it's crowdsourced. 371 00:22:27,416.7985 --> 00:22:27,612.244 Yeah. 372 00:22:28,352.344 --> 00:22:35,42.344 And you don't know, it's just a general public, it's not really worth, that's not the type of branding that's worthwhile either. 373 00:22:35,132.344 --> 00:22:37,252.344 I would push back a little bit on the seller tracker actually. 374 00:22:37,592.344 --> 00:22:41,522.342 I think that if there's no other information on the seller tracker, because it's just geeks. 375 00:22:41,522.342 --> 00:22:43,412.343 It's a very self selected crowd that uses it. 376 00:22:43,672.343 --> 00:22:45,942.342 It's difficult, outdated. 377 00:22:46,342.343 --> 00:22:49,312.343 And, but the people on it really do care. 378 00:22:49,802.343 --> 00:22:53,592.343 And so I think that of all of them, if there's no other information, I would trust them before. 379 00:22:53,732.343 --> 00:22:55,712.343 But most crowdsourced. 380 00:22:56,842.343 --> 00:22:59,732.343 Cause that's so difficult to use is you get the. 381 00:23:01,227.343 --> 00:23:04,317.343 Here's the thing, everyone likes fruit, everyone likes simple wines. 382 00:23:04,747.343 --> 00:23:11,27.343 And so the worst wines possible get really highly rated on when you actually take the general public. 383 00:23:11,27.343 --> 00:23:23,367.343 And if you want just general wines, then you're spending 8 a bottle and you should never spend any more than that and, but never buy anything that's rated well, because ratings say that this is unique and interesting. 384 00:23:23,427.343 --> 00:23:26,587.343 And if that's not what you want, you should not be buying wine. 385 00:23:26,802.343 --> 00:23:37,382.343 Wines that are expensive, because if you are, you're wasting your money and that's also if you're new to wine, enjoy the easy fruit forward stuff that has one or two flavors and that's it. 386 00:23:37,982.342 --> 00:23:43,972.341 If you don't want to have a wine that actually is really unique, then, or intense Oh my God. 387 00:23:44,822.342 --> 00:23:52,422.342 There are so many highly rated wines that are just going to repel the majority of wine drinkers, like the people who want their wines, just simple. 388 00:23:52,592.342 --> 00:23:52,752.342 Yeah. 389 00:23:52,802.342 --> 00:23:53,512.342 And that's the other thing. 390 00:23:53,512.342 --> 00:23:53,802.342 Yeah. 391 00:23:53,952.342 --> 00:23:54,192.342 Yeah. 392 00:23:54,782.342 --> 00:23:55,142.342 Wow. 393 00:23:55,432.342 --> 00:23:56,782.342 This is not a simple line. 394 00:23:56,792.342 --> 00:23:57,112.342 Nope. 395 00:23:57,112.442 --> 00:23:59,114.792 I would love. 396 00:23:59,114.792 --> 00:24:00,272.342 Oh, with you. 397 00:24:00,322.342 --> 00:24:01,602.342 Oh, absolutely. 398 00:24:01,642.342 --> 00:24:03,2.342 Oh, I have it right here. 399 00:24:03,472.342 --> 00:24:04,92.342 Thank you very much. 400 00:24:04,242.342 --> 00:24:04,792.342 Okay. 401 00:24:04,942.341 --> 00:24:06,482.342 Shout out to Newf2Pop baby. 402 00:24:06,762.342 --> 00:24:14,662.343 Now this one, I actually, because I look at this and we had this argument before about what's the bricking. 403 00:24:14,812.342 --> 00:24:16,412.342 Oh, we were screaming at each other. 404 00:24:16,592.342 --> 00:24:18,352.342 We were throwing corks. 405 00:24:18,642.342 --> 00:24:22,292.342 I got, I have a black eye and yeah. 406 00:24:22,792.342 --> 00:24:33,407.342 What is bricking? Actually, it was a valid argument because I call breaking the clear meniscus on the edge of when you're looking at a wine, it's see through at the edge. 407 00:24:33,677.342 --> 00:24:39,577.342 This is classic Keith and Alana where we're actually talking about the same thing, but we describe it completely different. 408 00:24:40,697.341 --> 00:24:44,437.342 But you say it's actually the brick color at the edge, which makes more sense. 409 00:24:46,112.342 --> 00:24:53,672.342 That I tell students to look for is that, tan, adobe color and it looks, it's like a brick color. 410 00:24:53,702.342 --> 00:25:01,482.342 Now what Keith was pointing out was on this wine, the meniscus is completely clear, and then the bricking starts. 411 00:25:01,582.342 --> 00:25:10,572.3415 And which I think is pretty typical, but this is actually, so even by looking at this and those who are just listening, it's a wine that you can actually see through and it's a young wine. 412 00:25:10,572.3415 --> 00:25:17,602.342 It's super young wine, but, and this tells me, because it's from Chateau de Pompe, that it's actually is probably close to a hundred percent Grenache. 413 00:25:17,922.341 --> 00:25:21,602.342 And right before we started recording, I checked it's 90%. 414 00:25:22,32.342 --> 00:25:25,242.342 And which makes sense because Grenache. 415 00:25:25,472.342 --> 00:25:27,412.342 Actually doesn't hold pigment very well. 416 00:25:27,762.342 --> 00:25:29,392.342 But it can be a monster wine. 417 00:25:29,682.342 --> 00:25:39,802.342 Also, I can guarantee you this is on no oak because Grenache oxidizes and oak contributes to the oxidation and you can destroy some great Grenache. 418 00:25:40,212.341 --> 00:25:43,262.341 I do know only one producer in shot. 419 00:25:43,262.341 --> 00:25:46,172.342 There's the pop that actually ages their Grenache and Oak and you know how they do it. 420 00:25:46,592.342 --> 00:25:47,492.342 It's insane. 421 00:25:47,792.342 --> 00:25:49,132.342 They actually fill up another tank. 422 00:25:49,572.342 --> 00:25:51,747.342 They put They fill up the bustle here. 423 00:25:51,797.342 --> 00:25:54,287.342 They fill the barrel up the oak barrel with Grenache. 424 00:25:54,707.342 --> 00:25:57,987.342 They fill up a larger tank with a more Grenache. 425 00:25:58,267.342 --> 00:26:05,837.343 They put the oak barrel in that tank and the stainless steel tank, and then seal it so that those wines surrounding it. 426 00:26:06,47.343 --> 00:26:08,757.342 And there's wine in it, the wine surrounding it gets discarded. 427 00:26:08,847.342 --> 00:26:11,417.343 This is the only way you can oak age Grenache without it. 428 00:26:11,497.343 --> 00:26:13,607.343 Oxidizing insane that wine. 429 00:26:13,912.343 --> 00:26:14,162.343 Okay. 430 00:26:14,182.343 --> 00:26:15,742.343 I have questions, but that's for another time. 431 00:26:15,792.343 --> 00:26:16,502.343 That's for another time. 432 00:26:16,502.343 --> 00:26:16,992.343 Yes. 433 00:26:17,52.343 --> 00:26:29,962.344 And what, it was one of my advanced students brought it in for one of his projects for when he was doing an advanced project on the France and yeah, it was, it, yeah, it was insanely delicious and also just insane. 434 00:26:30,72.343 --> 00:26:39,902.343 Of course this dude was Was a doctor famous doctor who was, it was okay spending like 300 bucks on a bottle of Granache just to prove a point that you can okay shit. 435 00:26:39,902.443 --> 00:26:45,702.342 I like that you get those students. 436 00:26:45,752.342 --> 00:26:46,292.343 I do. 437 00:26:46,332.343 --> 00:26:47,2.3425 Oh yeah. 438 00:26:47,2.3425 --> 00:26:48,207.243 I love them too. 439 00:26:48,207.443 --> 00:26:49,684.893 Ugh, I love Grenache. 440 00:26:49,784.893 --> 00:26:54,634.893 Yeah, this, now, this is a grape we agree on. 441 00:26:56,594.893 --> 00:27:00,514.793 I love the Rhone Grenache. 442 00:27:00,514.893 --> 00:27:03,174.892 My preference is always Giganas, it's a little higher, more acidic. 443 00:27:03,474.893 --> 00:27:07,924.893 Here in Chateauneuf, I can guarantee you this is going to be big and unctuous with those. 444 00:27:09,264.893 --> 00:27:10,774.893 Just beautiful, warm spices. 445 00:27:10,804.893 --> 00:27:11,264.893 Yeah. 446 00:27:11,274.893 --> 00:27:11,974.793 And the rig. 447 00:27:12,224.893 --> 00:27:12,884.893 Oh God. 448 00:27:13,504.893 --> 00:27:15,304.893 Yeah, it is very lavender. 449 00:27:15,844.893 --> 00:27:16,444.893 Oh my God. 450 00:27:16,444.893 --> 00:27:20,304.893 This wine is, there are other things going on here. 451 00:27:20,354.893 --> 00:27:24,114.693 Before we start rolling, you mentioned I, I would like to steal this licorice. 452 00:27:24,494.793 --> 00:27:26,324.793 You had said that and I 100 percent agree. 453 00:27:26,924.792 --> 00:27:29,124.793 But now that I'm going into this a second time. 454 00:27:29,134.792 --> 00:27:29,474.792 Yeah. 455 00:27:30,869.793 --> 00:27:31,919.793 You're gonna hate this. 456 00:27:32,39.793 --> 00:27:32,69.793 Oh. 457 00:27:32,69.793 --> 00:27:35,279.793 But there is a whiff and it's a happy childhood memory of mine. 458 00:27:37,309.793 --> 00:27:39,259.793 Black Cherry jello. 459 00:27:39,264.793 --> 00:27:39,694.793 That's awesome. 460 00:27:40,34.793 --> 00:27:41,149.793 No, that's fantastic. 461 00:27:41,719.793 --> 00:27:42,954.793 Oh my God, that is fantastic. 462 00:27:43,114.793 --> 00:27:43,634.793 I love that. 463 00:27:43,634.793 --> 00:27:44,779.793 Right before it sets. 464 00:27:44,959.793 --> 00:27:45,349.793 Yes. 465 00:27:49,189.793 --> 00:27:50,59.793 Okay. 466 00:27:50,59.793 --> 00:27:50,599.793 Misophonia warning, take. 467 00:27:50,599.793 --> 00:27:51,319.793 Yeah, I already did. 468 00:27:52,729.793 --> 00:27:54,289.793 I'm glad you said she made it for you. 469 00:27:54,319.793 --> 00:27:56,514.793 'cause like at first I thought you might be, you were just saying that. 470 00:27:57,14.793 --> 00:27:58,574.793 That your grandmother smelled like. 471 00:28:02,344.793 --> 00:28:03,54.793 Oh my God. 472 00:28:03,94.793 --> 00:28:03,524.793 All right here. 473 00:28:03,574.793 --> 00:28:03,904.793 Okay. 474 00:28:04,194.793 --> 00:28:04,504.793 Okay. 475 00:28:04,884.793 --> 00:28:16,714.793 So structurally just unctuous, big, now there's a pricing, a little bit of red fruit in with this dip, a huge amount of dark plum, blackberry, and even going towards a little bit of blueberry. 476 00:28:17,94.793 --> 00:28:18,974.793 But then we have. 477 00:28:19,794.793 --> 00:28:20,124.793 Yeah. 478 00:28:20,164.793 --> 00:28:25,844.793 Structurally the tannins are very fine grain, surprisingly, but aggressive. 479 00:28:25,844.793 --> 00:28:27,544.793 So like you have, they're there. 480 00:28:27,744.793 --> 00:28:31,364.793 There's definitely one that you would have to, like we did we decanted this. 481 00:28:31,364.793 --> 00:28:34,934.793 We corvened it about an hour and a half ago. 482 00:28:35,314.793 --> 00:28:35,984.793 Definitely. 483 00:28:35,994.793 --> 00:28:39,504.793 Cause you need to open this up unless you're holding it for five to six years. 484 00:28:39,864.793 --> 00:28:40,234.793 Now. 485 00:28:40,994.793 --> 00:28:49,764.793 Oh, but yeah, no, and the finish going it's not, I was expecting Earl Grey, but it's more, it's almost, it's not going towards the chocolate, but a little bit of espresso. 486 00:28:49,814.793 --> 00:28:52,74.792 I was thinking, it is surprisingly mocha. 487 00:28:52,124.792 --> 00:28:52,414.792 Yeah. 488 00:28:52,744.792 --> 00:28:54,304.792 Which is weird because there's no oat here. 489 00:28:54,504.792 --> 00:28:59,464.792 And so you taste that and you're like, okay, this is really the blackberry fruits, blueberry. 490 00:28:59,819.792 --> 00:29:00,889.792 And tannins. 491 00:29:00,889.792 --> 00:29:03,609.892 So you can combine, And make that baker's chocolate. 492 00:29:03,619.892 --> 00:29:03,949.892 Yes. 493 00:29:03,959.892 --> 00:29:05,749.892 So you get like a little dusty. 494 00:29:05,759.892 --> 00:29:06,299.892 Yes. 495 00:29:06,389.892 --> 00:29:07,229.892 Yes. 496 00:29:08,79.892 --> 00:29:13,19.892 Usually you only get that, this specific, if you have oak, but I just, there's no other flavors in a king oak. 497 00:29:13,19.892 --> 00:29:14,529.892 There's no vanilla, no nutmeg. 498 00:29:14,529.892 --> 00:29:18,449.7925 So even if they have a 10 percent Chiron here, or Movedger, I think. 499 00:29:18,789.8925 --> 00:29:33,679.8915 I think there may be a little Syrah, but from tasting it but this is, yeah, this is overwhelmingly, this is why honestly, everyone, like certain people will memorize the every grape that grows in Chateau du Stepan, which is I think of it as 12, but you told me I'm wrong. 500 00:29:33,679.8925 --> 00:29:35,939.8925 Is it 18 or something now? You had it right earlier. 501 00:29:35,939.8925 --> 00:29:37,99.8925 13. 502 00:29:37,99.9925 --> 00:29:37,439.7925 13. 503 00:29:37,439.8925 --> 00:29:37,879.8925 Yes. 504 00:29:37,879.8925 --> 00:29:38,139.8925 Yes. 505 00:29:38,189.8925 --> 00:29:39,879.8925 I believe now it's 18. 506 00:29:39,879.8925 --> 00:29:40,999.8925 It may even be more. 507 00:29:41,754.8925 --> 00:29:46,604.8925 Because they keep breaking down the same grape into calling them different. 508 00:29:46,614.8925 --> 00:29:46,864.8925 Yeah. 509 00:29:46,864.8925 --> 00:29:47,134.8925 Yeah. 510 00:29:47,134.8925 --> 00:29:52,594.8915 Cause they slight genetic differences that start showing up in these vineyards that are ancient. 511 00:29:53,334.8915 --> 00:29:55,44.8915 But honestly, it's mostly Grenache though. 512 00:29:55,54.8925 --> 00:29:59,324.8925 Like almost always you don't need to know the 9, 000 different grapes that grow here. 513 00:29:59,334.8935 --> 00:30:00,904.7935 It's most likely going to be Grenache. 514 00:30:00,904.8935 --> 00:30:05,624.8935 There's only a few that actually do Sinaphia, Malmö, Vedra but that's it. 515 00:30:05,634.8935 --> 00:30:07,754.8935 Like everything else are tiny little bits. 516 00:30:08,274.8935 --> 00:30:09,24.8925 It is a Grenache. 517 00:30:10,109.8935 --> 00:30:14,259.8935 Mecca, like most of the great towns in the Southern rune. 518 00:30:14,259.8935 --> 00:30:15,469.8935 I love this. 519 00:30:15,799.8935 --> 00:30:18,389.8935 Oh, all so well, enjoy folks. 520 00:30:18,389.8935 --> 00:30:19,879.8935 Thank you for joining us. 521 00:30:19,889.8935 --> 00:30:20,369.8935 Yes. 522 00:30:20,369.8935 --> 00:30:20,719.8935 I'm sorry. 523 00:30:20,759.8935 --> 00:30:24,689.8935 Did I cut you off? No, I'm just gonna say enjoy this highly rated wine. 524 00:30:27,239.8935 --> 00:30:30,79.8935 With the corny, the corniest little stamp on there. 525 00:30:30,119.8935 --> 00:30:32,119.8935 I, oh, it's embarrassing. 526 00:30:32,119.9935 --> 00:30:38,119.8935 It's so trying hard sometimes but it's a very good way of buying wines if you don't know the region. 527 00:30:38,544.8935 --> 00:30:39,214.8935 Fair enough. 528 00:30:40,114.8935 --> 00:30:45,794.8935 Folks, if you have any thoughts, comments, feedback, tell a friend. 529 00:30:46,854.8935 --> 00:30:47,414.8935 Yes. 530 00:30:47,484.8935 --> 00:30:47,824.8925 Oh, yeah. 531 00:30:49,54.8935 --> 00:31:08,594.7935 The more, if you like this, if you like the honest, straightforward approach that we're taking here, please, the best thing you do, tell everyone you know, like especially the snobs especially if they're going to hate it, especially if you know that person who just thinks that they're the, like the smartest person in wine and they just make you feel bad about what you like. 532 00:31:09,144.7935 --> 00:31:22,534.793 Send this to them and, just maybe as like to grow up or maybe it's just say a big F you and Hey, look and if we had a Patriot Hey, give us some, you give us some cash and we'll just tell them to go fuck themselves on, on the podcast, we're not going to actually do that. 533 00:31:22,854.792 --> 00:31:31,884.792 But just by all means, just if you let people know, that's the best thing, if you enjoy this, rate it, subscribe, if you can download it. 534 00:31:32,304.792 --> 00:31:33,664.792 All that happy stuff. 535 00:31:33,714.792 --> 00:31:35,754.792 And yeah, and become a disciple. 536 00:31:35,884.792 --> 00:31:37,854.792 Live outside the wine school. 537 00:31:37,964.792 --> 00:31:38,684.793 We'll preach to you. 538 00:31:38,684.793 --> 00:31:41,194.793 We'll throw you courts every morning and a little tasting of bread. 539 00:31:41,194.893 --> 00:31:46,164.793 I want to start a cult. 540 00:31:55,764.793 --> 00:31:58,744.793 Thanks for spending time with us on After Wine School. 541 00:31:59,284.793 --> 00:32:06,394.792 If you enjoyed today's episode, hit subscribe so you never miss out on more wine wisdom, tips, and laughs.