How to Train Your Wine Brain

Mastering Wine Tasting: Practical Tips and Personal Insights

In this episode of the After Wine School Podcast, hosts Keith and Alana discuss techniques to enhance wine tasting abilities. They cover practical advice on developing your palate through mindful activities like grocery shopping, cooking, and exploring diverse aromas. They also share personal anecdotes about how authenticity in describing wine flavors and focusing on a single grape variety or region can deepen wine understanding. With insights on the evolving nature of taste preferences, they encourage listeners to enjoy the journey of wine exploration. The conversation is filled with humor and ends with a reminder to like and subscribe.

00:00 Introduction and Cringe-worthy Singing 00:17 Meet the Hosts and Sponsor 01:50 How to Hone Your Wine Tasting Skills 03:49 Mindfulness and Sensory Exploration 04:52 Cooking and Sensory Development 12:34 Wine Tasting Techniques and Tips 16:18 Authenticity in Wine Descriptions 22:09 Exploring Wine Regions and Varietals 25:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the After Wine School Podcast.
This week, Keith and Alana are talking about how to hone your wine tasting skills.
They share some great information, with a few key points at the end of the half hour.
Oh, and Keith does sing in the introduction, and that's a bit cringe.
.966Enjoy! Welcome to After Wine School, the wine podcast. 6 00:00:22,354.966 --> 00:00:23,644.966 Oh, do I have to sing? Yes. 7 00:00:24,229.966 --> 00:00:37,694.966 I'm Keith Wallace hanging out with I admire your confidence. 8 00:00:37,699.966 --> 00:00:37,909.966 yeah. 9 00:00:37,939.966 --> 00:00:38,929.966 you took that was. 10 00:00:39,164.966 --> 00:00:49,884.966 was it a bet to a bad place? I think we just lost 10% of our viewership right there alone, but we've gained some, the people who are really into atonal music Yeah. 11 00:00:50,44.966 --> 00:00:51,844.966 they now are like, we have a new grandma. 12 00:00:52,694.966 --> 00:00:56,624.966 Let's tell the people what we are taking to the mic to talk about today. 13 00:00:56,834.966 --> 00:00:57,614.966 I have no idea. 14 00:00:57,694.966 --> 00:01:00,704.966 I, this is after school, the wine podcast. 15 00:01:01,514.966 --> 00:01:02,804.966 I'm Keith Alana. 16 00:01:03,174.966 --> 00:01:06,224.966 there's something about the National Wine School, Our sponsor. 17 00:01:06,444.966 --> 00:01:07,44.966 this plane. 18 00:01:07,614.966 --> 00:01:09,924.966 so this podcast, we have a sponsor. 19 00:01:09,924.966 --> 00:01:16,74.966 Believe it or not, it is the National Wine School, the absolute best in online wine education. 20 00:01:16,404.966 --> 00:01:22,34.966 And as part of their sponsorship of our wine podcast, they have asked us to make clear to. 21 00:01:22,109.966 --> 00:01:31,529.966 Everyone that our opinions are completely our own and do not ascribe anything to any business, especially them. 22 00:01:31,849.966 --> 00:01:37,519.966 anything you hear on this wine podcast is just between us and it's completely our own opinions and viewpoints. 23 00:01:37,939.966 --> 00:01:47,119.966 Oh, so I can just say things, that the completely false and horrible, like the National Wine School's founder, eats, Play-Doh in his, office. 24 00:01:48,84.966 --> 00:01:50,514.966 Keith? I don't wanna have to bench you so early on. 25 00:01:50,724.966 --> 00:01:50,754.966 Okay. 26 00:01:50,754.966 --> 00:01:50,904.966 Alright. 27 00:01:50,904.966 --> 00:01:54,474.966 let me tell people what we had planned on talking about today. 28 00:01:55,4.966 --> 00:01:55,604.966 Yeah, I know. 29 00:01:55,859.966 --> 00:02:02,309.966 What we had planned on talking about was how to really work on your palette, on your sensory abilities. 30 00:02:02,389.966 --> 00:02:02,869.966 that's a good one. 31 00:02:02,869.966 --> 00:02:05,719.966 your own, a little DIY session. 32 00:02:05,829.966 --> 00:02:06,159.966 Yeah. 33 00:02:06,249.966 --> 00:02:07,89.966 Up your game. 34 00:02:07,89.966 --> 00:02:21,199.966 When it comes to identifying smells, flavors, this is great because this is good for even like small, Asian wine makers still need to do this, but if you're just brand new to wine and you've never taken a wine class, that's also really good. 35 00:02:22,514.966 --> 00:02:26,984.966 I guess we're working against ourselves, so even if you don't come to wine class, we're gonna give you tips and trick. 36 00:02:27,494.966 --> 00:02:28,64.966 Wow. 37 00:02:28,114.966 --> 00:02:31,744.966 for now? do we have like a freemium model? We, oh wow. 38 00:02:31,744.966 --> 00:02:37,954.966 This is not, yeah, well I guess we kind of do actually, yes, we like talking about these things because I write about these things all the time anyways. 39 00:02:37,954.966 --> 00:02:39,34.966 And yes, that's free. 40 00:02:39,344.966 --> 00:02:41,144.966 but actually in a wine class is always better. 41 00:02:41,629.966 --> 00:02:43,639.966 Of course, 'cause you actually get the taste of wines. 42 00:02:44,539.966 --> 00:02:47,49.966 Alright, that said, this is a great idea, Alana. 43 00:02:47,49.966 --> 00:02:47,769.966 I really love this. 44 00:02:47,769.966 --> 00:03:02,259.966 So where should we start here? What, what would we, how should we launch this? Well, I will tell you when people ask me this question in like a 1 0 1 class, my go-to answer is to really just start. 45 00:03:02,464.966 --> 00:03:03,664.966 Smelling things. 46 00:03:03,664.966 --> 00:03:03,754.966 Yes. 47 00:03:04,54.966 --> 00:03:16,154.966 To get yourself to a grocery store, an Asian market is wonderful because there are so many different fruits and vegetables that are, we're not so familiar with. 48 00:03:16,154.966 --> 00:03:35,199.966 And so get to a place, go to a spice shop, go someplace where you just start smelling things Do a little cooking, and when you're cooking, pull out things from your spice drawer and before you use 'em, take a nice big whiff and really start thinking about the difference between rosemary and bay leaf. 49 00:03:35,259.966 --> 00:03:36,309.966 You know, just true. 50 00:03:36,909.966 --> 00:03:36,999.966 Yes. 51 00:03:36,999.966 --> 00:03:37,174.966 This is good. 52 00:03:37,174.966 --> 00:03:38,289.966 Just for your own. 53 00:03:38,669.966 --> 00:03:40,589.966 To be honest, we could just stop there and just like, that's it. 54 00:03:40,589.966 --> 00:03:41,789.966 32nd wine class. 55 00:03:42,449.966 --> 00:03:42,749.966 That's it. 56 00:03:42,749.966 --> 00:03:43,979.966 You're so cheap, Keith. 57 00:03:44,254.966 --> 00:03:48,659.966 but what you're saying is, so where I is, I start in a very similar place. 58 00:03:49,94.966 --> 00:03:55,754.966 I think the best way to start is just actually have a more mindful life for yourself. 59 00:03:56,924.966 --> 00:03:58,424.966 and what I mean by that is. 60 00:03:59,439.966 --> 00:04:14,279.966 Rather than seeking out things in the world to change yourself, actually find some things that you should already do that will bring you joy Just slow it down like we all grow, have to do grocery shopping. 61 00:04:14,819.966 --> 00:04:15,359.966 Yes. 62 00:04:15,479.966 --> 00:04:17,9.966 And 100% yes. 63 00:04:17,189.966 --> 00:04:17,729.966 I agree. 64 00:04:17,729.966 --> 00:04:21,89.966 You should actually go smell everything, but just go to the local grocery store, whatever you're doing. 65 00:04:21,389.966 --> 00:04:24,29.966 Smell everything that has any smell. 66 00:04:24,29.966 --> 00:04:24,269.966 Right. 67 00:04:24,569.966 --> 00:04:25,919.966 Spices, herbs, sure. 68 00:04:25,919.966 --> 00:04:26,969.966 And all your vegetables. 69 00:04:26,969.966 --> 00:04:28,49.966 Absolutely. 70 00:04:28,649.966 --> 00:04:29,159.966 Just. 71 00:04:30,149.966 --> 00:04:34,849.966 Doing that alone, and especially cheeses even through, you know, they're always gonna have a smell. 72 00:04:34,899.966 --> 00:04:36,789.966 just take your time, slow down a little bit. 73 00:04:37,419.966 --> 00:04:48,229.966 And if you're that person who's like, smelling all the produce, smelling the cheeses, you're slowing down a little bit and instead of being anxious in grocery shopping, it calms you down. 74 00:04:48,279.966 --> 00:04:52,59.966 It just makes it a more pleasurable because you're doing something to benefit yourself. 75 00:04:52,719.966 --> 00:04:59,859.966 And then right when you go, when you are at home and you cook, you slow down, smell every ingredient. 76 00:05:00,399.966 --> 00:05:07,809.966 'cause the most magical thing, like say garlic, like when you peel a garlic, it has a very specific smell when you crush it. 77 00:05:08,109.966 --> 00:05:11,829.966 And if you add a little salt to it, it's gonna smell a little different because the enzymes are starting to break down. 78 00:05:12,249.966 --> 00:05:17,829.966 Put that in a hot pan with some oil or some clarified butter, it's gonna smell differently. 79 00:05:17,829.966 --> 00:05:23,649.966 And each step of the way, you have these different aromas and they're the same thing. 80 00:05:23,649.966 --> 00:05:28,929.966 And this starts to get you in the mind frame of, oh, like the complexity of different thing. 81 00:05:28,929.966 --> 00:05:30,939.966 You can describe almost anything. 82 00:05:32,79.966 --> 00:05:34,269.966 With just a few ideas of cooking. 83 00:05:34,959.966 --> 00:05:40,479.966 somebody asked me many, many years ago, like, they're having a hard time understanding oak flavors. 84 00:05:40,539.966 --> 00:05:43,299.966 But they were a baker, so I told them to go bake an apple pie. 85 00:05:43,329.966 --> 00:05:47,859.966 and I use that a lot, and I've mentioned this before in the podcast, even bake an apple pie. 86 00:05:47,909.966 --> 00:05:55,239.966 the smell of individual ingredients, the taste of the individual ingredients, when they're raw, when they're cooking, and when that's finished. 87 00:05:55,839.966 --> 00:06:00,549.966 Completely changes, but so that you can have a complete different idea of what vanilla is. 88 00:06:00,909.966 --> 00:06:05,469.966 'cause vanilla in its raw state is very different than vanilla being cooked. 89 00:06:05,529.966 --> 00:06:12,759.966 And then when it's actually finished, like that smoky flavor of vanilla is actually different than what raw vanilla smells like or tastes like. 90 00:06:13,179.966 --> 00:06:14,709.966 So these are delightful things. 91 00:06:14,709.966 --> 00:06:36,944.966 Know the difference between, your different spices, your cinnamon, your vanilla, your all spice, When you understand those differences, you start building these different neural pathways and before you even know it, before you even realize that you're all of a sudden have this much more complex perception of the world that you didn't realize you could ever have. 92 00:06:38,489.966 --> 00:06:52,769.966 It's that thing that I think like, new parents, when they smell a baby's head, realize they never had that smell, never had something that felt that way before the whole world could be like, that moment of smelling a baby's head, So many things are interesting. 93 00:06:53,169.966 --> 00:06:54,369.966 we just don't pay attention. 94 00:06:54,369.966 --> 00:06:56,379.966 And so this is what I mean by mindfulness. 95 00:06:56,379.966 --> 00:07:00,669.966 Just allow yourself to open up, enjoy these things you typically rush through. 96 00:07:01,479.966 --> 00:07:05,889.966 It does mean you have to like, oh, give an extra 10 minutes, 20 minutes here to do this. 97 00:07:05,889.966 --> 00:07:12,849.966 But just if you slow down on those things, you're having a better life and you're also learning more and actually gaining. 98 00:07:13,179.966 --> 00:07:19,959.966 So much more appreciation and so much more understanding that when it comes to wine, it starts becoming easier. 99 00:07:19,989.966 --> 00:07:21,909.966 You start noticing the complexity. 100 00:07:22,249.966 --> 00:07:25,609.966 this is something that part of, like the core sommelier program does. 101 00:07:25,659.966 --> 00:07:29,230.966 It's one to show you your, well, first off, that you don't know what you're doing. 102 00:07:30,424.966 --> 00:07:42,544.966 That you're missing all these things and then let's, okay, how do we pay attention? How do we build the neural pathways to be able to start understanding all these smells and flavors? So yes, cooking is everything and learning how to appreciate it. 103 00:07:42,844.966 --> 00:07:44,134.966 And you don't have to be a good cook. 104 00:07:44,184.966 --> 00:07:45,564.966 Just learning how to make even a. 105 00:07:45,974.966 --> 00:07:55,304.966 Even a grilled cheese sandwich, there's plenty of sensory information of difference between bread that's been baked or toasted or pan-seared in butter. 106 00:07:56,354.966 --> 00:08:00,764.966 Please people make your, your grilled cheese sandwiches and a whole lot of butter. 107 00:08:01,124.966 --> 00:08:03,854.966 Whole butter in the pan caramelize. 108 00:08:04,154.966 --> 00:08:07,34.966 Get that beautiful Millard reaction happening. 109 00:08:07,34.966 --> 00:08:08,474.966 Make, oh, it's so crispy and delicious. 110 00:08:08,474.966 --> 00:08:09,644.966 I can just taste it right now. 111 00:08:09,884.966 --> 00:08:14,804.966 My best friend in sixth grade, yeah, she put paprika on her grilled cheese. 112 00:08:15,474.966 --> 00:08:16,734.966 And it was life changing. 113 00:08:18,84.966 --> 00:08:18,684.966 Oh wow. 114 00:08:18,684.966 --> 00:08:20,169.966 Can you imagine? That's awesome. 115 00:08:20,229.966 --> 00:08:20,919.966 sophisticated. 116 00:08:20,969.966 --> 00:08:27,139.966 That's very, the thing that really freaked me out, changed my world was actually, when my grandfather actually, put. 117 00:08:27,784.966 --> 00:08:30,544.966 Real cheddar cheese on apple pie. 118 00:08:31,144.966 --> 00:08:32,134.966 Real apple pie. 119 00:08:32,554.966 --> 00:08:33,334.966 You've told me that. 120 00:08:33,434.966 --> 00:08:39,524.966 because I never knew that sweet and savory could go together and that it just, it made this thing in your brain go, pop. 121 00:08:40,214.966 --> 00:08:47,44.966 For instance, one of my dogs actually always smells awful and floral at the same time. 122 00:08:47,44.966 --> 00:08:49,354.966 Like it is just, and I love that smell. 123 00:08:49,354.966 --> 00:08:50,344.966 I love that dog. 124 00:08:50,344.966 --> 00:08:52,744.966 It's like, it's stinky and beautiful at the same time. 125 00:08:52,744.966 --> 00:08:55,144.966 dogs smells like Doritos when she's sleeping. 126 00:08:55,294.966 --> 00:08:55,804.966 Oh my God. 127 00:08:55,854.966 --> 00:08:57,594.966 Oh, I get in there, I get by her armpit. 128 00:08:57,729.966 --> 00:09:00,384.966 I'm like, oh, oh, that stinky Doritos. 129 00:09:00,389.966 --> 00:09:02,54.966 yeah, because you can break it down. 130 00:09:02,54.966 --> 00:09:03,614.966 Well, that's lactic bacteria. 131 00:09:03,729.966 --> 00:09:07,549.966 You know? I prefer not to break down. 132 00:09:08,259.966 --> 00:09:11,864.966 that's difference for you and I Absolutely. 133 00:09:16,254.966 --> 00:09:27,734.966 One of the things about our world that we inhabit today is that a sign of luxury, a sign of just a homey space is something devoid of bad smells. 134 00:09:27,739.966 --> 00:09:29,24.966 Oh yeah. 135 00:09:29,79.966 --> 00:09:32,619.966 we get a little too accustomed, I think. 136 00:09:32,979.966 --> 00:09:33,549.966 Yeah. 137 00:09:33,639.966 --> 00:09:34,209.966 To. 138 00:09:34,599.966 --> 00:09:38,169.966 Sterile being equated with good. 139 00:09:38,899.966 --> 00:09:50,659.966 I think it's why people struggle with a lot of intensely earthy wines is because we're not used to being a little uncomfortable with what we're smelling. 140 00:09:50,699.966 --> 00:10:01,629.966 Yeah, if you have a piece of fruit that's rotting Oh, Before you throw it away, give good whiff and see if you can tease out the hint. 141 00:10:01,709.966 --> 00:10:02,519.966 Oh, that's fascinating. 142 00:10:02,519.966 --> 00:10:02,879.966 Foul. 143 00:10:02,879.966 --> 00:10:04,79.966 And kind of keep that. 144 00:10:04,259.966 --> 00:10:04,319.966 Yeah. 145 00:10:04,369.966 --> 00:10:09,289.966 I think we need to practice a little bit more like and catalog what we don't like. 146 00:10:09,289.966 --> 00:10:10,939.966 Or what's challenging. 147 00:10:11,39.966 --> 00:10:15,109.966 Because also, this is a theme that's come up is the world is always changing. 148 00:10:15,109.966 --> 00:10:18,879.966 Tastes are always changing, and we're always changing, our preferences. 149 00:10:18,879.966 --> 00:10:26,619.966 My big breakthrough a year ago was that I actually liked Grenache Blanc, and you've been on this journey with me. 150 00:10:29,329.966 --> 00:10:30,709.966 the fennel smell. 151 00:10:30,709.966 --> 00:10:36,259.966 it's not something I enjoy and I just did not care for the texture, the viscosity, none of it. 152 00:10:37,39.966 --> 00:10:42,859.966 And then I turned a corner and it was what I wanted to keep drinking with everything I know about a year ago. 153 00:10:43,9.966 --> 00:10:43,369.966 I know. 154 00:10:43,369.966 --> 00:10:45,289.966 And that threw me for a loop because Yeah. 155 00:10:45,289.966 --> 00:10:51,579.966 So I would never make any food that would go well with Ache Blanc, which is one of my absolute favorites. 156 00:10:52,869.966 --> 00:10:59,769.966 You've always loved Marsan and Rusan, those other R varietals, but Grenache blanc, which I love because it. 157 00:11:00,144.966 --> 00:11:03,534.966 Deep potential and just funky and weird. 158 00:11:03,744.966 --> 00:11:05,64.966 I know that licorice thing. 159 00:11:05,694.966 --> 00:11:06,324.966 Oh, that good. 160 00:11:06,324.966 --> 00:11:07,194.966 And plen note. 161 00:11:07,194.966 --> 00:11:07,764.966 Oh my God. 162 00:11:07,764.966 --> 00:11:11,34.966 I mean, I don't even really like licorice, but in that, well, that's beautiful. 163 00:11:11,34.966 --> 00:11:14,34.966 Anyway, the point is to just kind of challenge yourself. 164 00:11:14,64.966 --> 00:11:14,244.966 Yes. 165 00:11:14,244.966 --> 00:11:19,464.966 And use that information too, and don't see it as a necessarily a static thing. 166 00:11:19,554.966 --> 00:11:20,604.966 Oh, that's a good point. 167 00:11:20,604.966 --> 00:11:21,894.966 Everyone really should understand that. 168 00:11:21,894.966 --> 00:11:25,884.966 And it's something that I actually do stress in my class is that you, nothing ever stays the same. 169 00:11:25,884.966 --> 00:11:25,974.966 Right. 170 00:11:26,64.966 --> 00:11:30,354.966 You always evolving the things you love and hate tend to swap. 171 00:11:30,504.966 --> 00:11:30,654.966 Mm-hmm. 172 00:11:31,14.966 --> 00:11:39,184.966 This is the guaranteed with people, like everyone's dated somebody, who now they hate, you know, you, you love them, then you hate them. 173 00:11:39,184.966 --> 00:11:42,34.966 Now what happened, right? This happens in marriages. 174 00:11:42,34.966 --> 00:11:42,724.966 This happens in everything. 175 00:11:42,724.966 --> 00:11:44,764.966 The only thing it doesn't happen with is in puppies. 176 00:11:45,94.966 --> 00:11:47,224.966 Like no one ever says, oh, that was a shitty puppy. 177 00:11:47,279.966 --> 00:11:47,834.966 I do have a shitty puppy. 178 00:11:47,884.966 --> 00:11:48,9.966 I do. 179 00:11:48,9.966 --> 00:11:52,19.966 I say that all the time, but you know, I still wanna love like, yeah, Charlie, I love Charlie. 180 00:11:52,79.966 --> 00:11:53,99.966 He's just an awful dog. 181 00:11:53,519.966 --> 00:11:54,509.966 This is great. 182 00:11:54,549.966 --> 00:11:55,989.966 these are good things. 183 00:11:56,39.966 --> 00:11:57,639.966 to just adapt to your own life. 184 00:11:57,639.966 --> 00:12:00,379.966 if you learn how to cook, you don't have to be a great cook. 185 00:12:00,379.966 --> 00:12:04,549.966 It's just about understanding process, understanding smells, being okay with that. 186 00:12:04,819.966 --> 00:12:07,759.966 And maybe have that air filter going 24 7 in your house. 187 00:12:07,759.966 --> 00:12:13,279.966 Either like get used to some of the smells of like, yeah, I get a whiff of garbage once in a while. 188 00:12:13,279.966 --> 00:12:15,529.966 You know, this is actually not a bad thing. 189 00:12:16,29.966 --> 00:12:17,619.966 life is life and. 190 00:12:18,414.966 --> 00:12:31,464.966 Wine does reflect life in a great many ways, and it's one of the things that makes my career possible is that I do, like, there's so many parts of wine that are just reminiscent of human life. 191 00:12:31,514.966 --> 00:12:33,824.966 I bring that forward in almost all my classes. 192 00:12:34,454.966 --> 00:12:45,424.966 That said, I have a couple techniques that I've used over the years, to learn, to understand about wine, or if someone's not taking a class or they just, they're having a difficulty and they wanna expand. 193 00:12:45,994.966 --> 00:12:51,904.966 What I tend to do is tell them instead of going outwards, go more narrow. 194 00:12:52,234.966 --> 00:12:59,684.966 It's something that I did when I wanted to get A better understanding of the world of wine back when I was a wine maker. 195 00:12:59,744.966 --> 00:13:03,404.966 but I didn't really have a full breadth of the world of wine. 196 00:13:03,674.966 --> 00:13:10,564.966 So what I did, and this worked great, I started with a grape that I knew very well because I was making it, it was, Cabernet Franc. 197 00:13:11,524.966 --> 00:13:19,4.966 And what I did was I went from there and I went to, found Cabernet FFR from everywhere in the world that was, that made, that were known for the Cabernet Fron. 198 00:13:19,34.966 --> 00:13:19,364.966 So. 199 00:13:19,989.966 --> 00:13:28,139.966 Whether it's from the Central noir, like from Anju or even Chinon, South Africa, Pennsylvania, which is actually where I was making it. 200 00:13:28,409.966 --> 00:13:29,879.966 Bunch of examples there. 201 00:13:30,239.966 --> 00:13:34,559.966 Other places on the East Coast, Napa Valley, everywhere. 202 00:13:35,569.966 --> 00:13:39,469.966 That they, a winery made good Cabernet Franc, I tried it. 203 00:13:39,524.966 --> 00:13:44,289.966 And it was like I went 20, 30, 40 and nothing but for months. 204 00:13:44,859.966 --> 00:13:50,789.966 And that helped me a great deal of understanding nuances about how these areas thought about Cabernet Franc. 205 00:13:51,449.966 --> 00:14:00,359.966 And it built this internal matrix of what it always is and then what it can be outside of that. 206 00:14:00,599.966 --> 00:14:13,379.966 That is actually where I got the idea for the core sommelier program, was realizing that there was these varietal fingerprints that always existed and that we could actually learn about all of them throughout the world of wine. 207 00:14:13,429.966 --> 00:14:19,839.966 So this process gave me a lot of insight into wine, and in fact actually really started the school Somali programming. 208 00:14:20,859.966 --> 00:14:23,469.966 If anyone goes to our website, ology.com, 209 00:14:23,519.966 --> 00:14:35,949.966 you'll find an article by an old student about his year of Riesling, because I sent one of my students who really wanted to learn more about wine, and he had taken all of our classes and he's, I want something to do. 210 00:14:36,409.966 --> 00:14:37,129.966 I've graduated. 211 00:14:37,129.966 --> 00:14:37,744.966 I want something else. 212 00:14:38,54.966 --> 00:14:38,584.966 It's like this. 213 00:14:38,979.966 --> 00:14:41,499.966 Spend as much time as you can with one wine. 214 00:14:41,949.966 --> 00:14:42,639.966 And he did. 215 00:14:42,819.966 --> 00:14:45,669.966 And he spent an entire year drinking nothing but res. 216 00:14:46,749.966 --> 00:14:50,169.966 And it was just really fascinating seeing because. 217 00:14:51,349.966 --> 00:15:05,269.966 His ability to notice the variations of Rieslings became so amazing and so fine grain, but also his palate changed over the time and that, and he actually had those huge revelations during that year. 218 00:15:05,269.966 --> 00:15:06,169.966 Like things that he. 219 00:15:06,379.966 --> 00:15:07,339.966 Used to not like him. 220 00:15:07,339.966 --> 00:15:15,119.966 Now he likes his, his nuances of his language has completely changed and then afterwards he wrote an article about it for our website. 221 00:15:15,179.966 --> 00:15:21,79.966 And, yeah, it's interesting listening to him write about it his as his evolution over that year. 222 00:15:21,529.966 --> 00:15:22,969.966 So that's another thing that you can do. 223 00:15:23,119.966 --> 00:15:24,499.966 Well, two things I wanna highlight. 224 00:15:24,549.966 --> 00:15:24,849.966 From that. 225 00:15:24,899.966 --> 00:15:35,549.966 Going to white wines like I think if, especially in the beginning, yes, to really hone in on some nuances and complexities. 226 00:15:35,549.966 --> 00:15:39,749.966 White wines, I always say to my classes, these are your best friends. 227 00:15:39,809.966 --> 00:15:52,49.966 These are where you can really start flexing your ability to detect subtle, complex, floral, minerality, all types of fruits, all types of earth. 228 00:15:52,869.966 --> 00:15:54,789.966 I think white wine are amazing. 229 00:15:54,789.966 --> 00:16:02,689.966 So the fact that he devoted his year to Riesling, I can see where that would pay off in a huge way. 230 00:16:03,619.966 --> 00:16:08,629.966 Also being authentic to your own experience. 231 00:16:08,629.966 --> 00:16:11,319.966 his descriptions of things changed His. 232 00:16:11,994.966 --> 00:16:13,434.966 Viewpoint changed. 233 00:16:13,524.966 --> 00:16:19,814.966 You can always tell when someone is speaking authentically Versus not. 234 00:16:20,264.966 --> 00:16:26,474.966 And it only sets you back to sort of regurgitate. 235 00:16:26,524.966 --> 00:16:31,264.966 Something that you've read or heard that sounded really amazing to you. 236 00:16:31,294.966 --> 00:16:34,444.966 My famous example is Crushed white lilies. 237 00:16:36,904.966 --> 00:16:39,454.966 My time teaching wine crushed white lilies. 238 00:16:39,514.966 --> 00:16:42,604.966 There was a student who insisted, he smelled it. 239 00:16:43,269.966 --> 00:16:50,409.966 So many different wines during the core program, and I finally just said to him, I never wanna hear you say that again. 240 00:16:50,499.966 --> 00:16:52,29.966 You don't know what that smells like. 241 00:16:52,119.966 --> 00:16:52,179.966 Yeah. 242 00:16:52,649.966 --> 00:16:53,669.966 You don't know what it smell. 243 00:16:53,699.966 --> 00:16:57,929.966 You are just parroting something and you're setting yourself. 244 00:16:58,469.966 --> 00:17:02,309.966 And sadly, this guy actually did go on to have a career in wine and Yeah. 245 00:17:02,459.966 --> 00:17:04,49.966 You know, absolutely hates me to this day. 246 00:17:06,389.966 --> 00:17:10,319.966 But honestly, if I see you doing something that's just holding you back. 247 00:17:10,369.966 --> 00:17:18,159.966 You can work against yourself by Having someone else's voice in your mind that's just gonna stop you from developing. 248 00:17:18,189.966 --> 00:17:21,939.966 I've had, for me, I had a student, dude, it was, everything was Asian Phi Spice. 249 00:17:21,974.966 --> 00:17:23,254.966 Yes, I've heard that Yeah. 250 00:17:23,309.966 --> 00:17:24,929.966 First of all, that's a very complicated smell. 251 00:17:25,79.966 --> 00:17:26,549.966 It very much is. 252 00:17:26,649.966 --> 00:17:31,879.966 And then, so yeah, and I asked like, so what are the spices in Asian five spice? Chinese five spice? Yeah. 253 00:17:32,159.966 --> 00:17:33,299.966 I always call it Asian five spice. 254 00:17:33,349.966 --> 00:17:34,429.966 Just because it's not Chinese. 255 00:17:34,479.966 --> 00:17:34,679.966 yeah. 256 00:17:34,764.966 --> 00:17:35,34.966 yeah. 257 00:17:35,124.966 --> 00:17:39,974.966 But, they didn't know any of the spices in it. 258 00:17:39,974.966 --> 00:17:40,64.966 Right. 259 00:17:40,64.966 --> 00:17:40,514.966 Like, well then. 260 00:17:41,114.966 --> 00:17:44,24.966 That's just like me saying it smells like Tabasco sauce. 261 00:17:44,774.966 --> 00:17:49,934.966 Like if you don't know what's in it, then how can you use that as you know, but you clearly don't know. 262 00:17:49,934.966 --> 00:17:51,494.966 You just heard it one time. 263 00:17:51,854.966 --> 00:17:52,394.966 It's true. 264 00:17:52,944.966 --> 00:17:56,244.966 if you really want to seem inauthentic and just full of bullshit. 265 00:17:56,454.966 --> 00:17:57,264.966 Absolutely. 266 00:17:57,544.966 --> 00:18:00,454.966 Just parrot something authentic. 267 00:18:01,164.966 --> 00:18:02,574.966 Expressions are the most important. 268 00:18:03,24.966 --> 00:18:08,964.966 It's one of the things that actually, when I'm grading online programming, is we do the whole court program through the National White school. 269 00:18:09,19.966 --> 00:18:09,439.966 Online. 270 00:18:10,344.966 --> 00:18:11,94.966 It's fascinating. 271 00:18:11,144.966 --> 00:18:18,414.966 there's a lot of innovations in that because even though you're doing it on your own, it does train you how to smell and sense. 272 00:18:18,464.966 --> 00:18:21,104.966 When you take the exam, especially when you get through Syrah. 273 00:18:21,794.966 --> 00:18:33,344.966 I really know if a student's doing is authentic and not full of shit and just trying to par something is when they're giving me real examples of what it smells like. 274 00:18:33,414.966 --> 00:18:36,569.966 So everyone knows, different kinds of meats. 275 00:18:36,599.966 --> 00:18:43,159.966 Even if a vegetarian, you do know these smells, and you can describe them or of decaying flesh, whatever you like. 276 00:18:43,189.966 --> 00:18:47,289.966 These are part of the human existence and if you can explain them to me. 277 00:18:47,349.966 --> 00:18:53,439.966 I know you're being authentic, but I have a lot of students who will just like parrot something like it's obvious right away. 278 00:18:53,769.966 --> 00:18:58,569.966 It's so obvious when people are inauthentic, even when I'm greeting things. 279 00:18:59,199.966 --> 00:19:02,619.966 Online, even if they're not in front of me, it's obvious. 280 00:19:02,699.966 --> 00:19:03,629.966 find your way. 281 00:19:03,929.966 --> 00:19:07,169.966 Explore, like find one wine and explore. 282 00:19:07,169.966 --> 00:19:10,979.966 Go all the way down, every style from everywhere. 283 00:19:11,429.966 --> 00:19:12,359.966 That's amazing. 284 00:19:12,359.966 --> 00:19:14,309.966 Way to start, to learn about wines. 285 00:19:14,409.966 --> 00:19:28,549.966 are there any other ways, that you do this? how can people learn about wine, or build their palette and their sense of smell? I don't often tell people this, but if they keep pressing me after I've said, you know, go to the grocery store. 286 00:19:28,599.966 --> 00:19:31,269.966 Start cooking things in your kitchen. 287 00:19:31,779.966 --> 00:19:33,159.966 I will point out that. 288 00:19:34,164.966 --> 00:19:38,964.966 You know, there are some people who are just really activated by smell. 289 00:19:39,24.966 --> 00:19:39,264.966 Yeah. 290 00:19:39,564.966 --> 00:19:44,184.966 And those type of people oftentimes become perfumers. 291 00:19:44,214.966 --> 00:19:44,274.966 Yeah. 292 00:19:44,274.966 --> 00:19:45,384.966 Or go into that field. 293 00:19:45,384.966 --> 00:19:52,494.966 I probably would've really enjoyed just indulging in activating my ability to smell. 294 00:19:52,494.966 --> 00:19:55,674.966 Like that is something that gives me a lot of pleasure. 295 00:19:55,734.966 --> 00:19:56,214.966 Yeah. 296 00:19:56,724.966 --> 00:19:59,904.966 So try to, it, it, give that a try. 297 00:19:59,904.966 --> 00:20:01,824.966 You know, don't limit it to wine. 298 00:20:01,824.966 --> 00:20:07,314.966 See if there's a way you can bring it into home sense or perfume or something. 299 00:20:07,794.966 --> 00:20:16,879.966 Something that, it's just, I think just like broadening your, Idea of when you wanna focus on smelling things in wine, like don't make it so didactic. 300 00:20:16,879.966 --> 00:20:18,529.966 Just kind of be open. 301 00:20:18,739.966 --> 00:20:18,889.966 Yeah. 302 00:20:18,889.966 --> 00:20:24,649.966 If you really wanna indulge in the world of smells, just think about like how many other places. 303 00:20:24,779.966 --> 00:20:27,149.966 you can test that. 304 00:20:27,149.966 --> 00:20:43,959.966 Like go for a walk in the woods, go for a walk on the beach Smell thing, you know, just I have to agree 'cause, well one of the things, especially with the scents, one of the best projects I ever was involved was, was when the National Wine School needed to build out the programming. 305 00:20:44,529.966 --> 00:20:48,309.966 And one of the things they needed was scent kits. 306 00:20:48,519.966 --> 00:20:48,879.966 Right. 307 00:20:49,144.966 --> 00:21:00,544.966 So developing those scent kits and the various, like, because you building 'em like a perfumer, that was absolutely fantastic and phenomenal and that, and I've always loved that part of it. 308 00:21:00,544.966 --> 00:21:04,744.966 Like many years ago I actually started, you know, building scents for class. 309 00:21:04,844.966 --> 00:21:07,64.966 and then to take that nationally was amazing. 310 00:21:07,114.966 --> 00:21:12,504.966 Now the only caveat I will give is that most of The commercially available ones you can buy on Amazon retail. 311 00:21:13,24.966 --> 00:21:23,484.966 Like the ones we do that you can't buy them retail, you have to get them through as a part of one of the programs because they're expensive to make and they're really dialed into a specific sense and wine. 312 00:21:23,539.966 --> 00:21:29,964.966 That said whether it's perfume or just getting a scent kit and being able to smell the difference between. 313 00:21:31,389.966 --> 00:21:38,549.966 Cherry and raspberry, like starting to notice those smaller differences really important and it can really help. 314 00:21:39,59.966 --> 00:21:42,929.966 but just eating them, you know, like, so many, Flavors and wine are fruits. 315 00:21:42,979.966 --> 00:21:44,539.966 be healthier, eat some more fruits. 316 00:21:44,899.966 --> 00:21:55,309.966 it is amazing how, or just recognizing the differences of like a really perfectly ripe blueberry versus one that's like slightly under ripe or over ripe or maybe a little dried. 317 00:21:55,339.966 --> 00:21:59,319.966 I mean, obviously, It's better if you're in a classroom setting to learn these things. 318 00:21:59,319.966 --> 00:21:59,409.966 Sure. 319 00:21:59,709.966 --> 00:22:09,849.966 whether online or in person, it's always, always better, but there's so many ways you can explore and, or even if you want to actually just explore one wine region at a time. 320 00:22:09,939.966 --> 00:22:13,329.966 just say, okay, I wanna learn Burgundy. 321 00:22:13,359.966 --> 00:22:14,499.966 No, let's not say burgy. 322 00:22:14,529.966 --> 00:22:15,70.966 'cause that you'll be. 323 00:22:15,519.966 --> 00:22:16,659.966 You'll be very poor by the end. 324 00:22:17,19.966 --> 00:22:19,969.966 Just say, I want, CHAA Valley in Chile. 325 00:22:19,999.966 --> 00:22:23,629.966 Let's just start and just research all the producers. 326 00:22:24,19.966 --> 00:22:25,609.966 Learn all you can about them. 327 00:22:26,59.966 --> 00:22:30,829.966 Pick up some of their great wines and some of their lesser wines, and just start exploring. 328 00:22:31,714.966 --> 00:22:33,364.966 And build your way out slowly. 329 00:22:33,704.966 --> 00:22:35,894.966 that's always a great way to start. 330 00:22:36,224.966 --> 00:22:38,384.966 Or even just start with a specific winery. 331 00:22:38,414.966 --> 00:22:41,264.966 Are you a fan of one winery? okay, then start there. 332 00:22:41,454.966 --> 00:22:44,34.966 and then delve into what wine region are they in? Okay. 333 00:22:44,34.966 --> 00:22:48,864.966 Then start exploring that wine region or, oh, there's one wine that I really love. 334 00:22:49,174.966 --> 00:22:50,44.966 I really like this grape. 335 00:22:50,44.966 --> 00:22:51,304.966 Well then focus on that for a while. 336 00:22:52,279.966 --> 00:22:53,449.966 Pay attention. 337 00:22:53,869.966 --> 00:23:05,609.966 make it a hobby, make it fun, explore one small thing at a time, and all of a sudden you'll find that you've reached a really large level of knowledge and you're gonna find yourself better for it. 338 00:23:05,609.966 --> 00:23:08,249.966 So yeah, just eat and drink, I guess is what we're saying. 339 00:23:09,29.966 --> 00:23:09,569.966 Well, yeah. 340 00:23:09,569.966 --> 00:23:11,429.966 And the beautiful thing is you never. 341 00:23:11,469.966 --> 00:23:13,119.966 you'll never experience everything. 342 00:23:13,119.966 --> 00:23:14,619.966 You'll never smell everything. 343 00:23:14,669.966 --> 00:23:15,179.966 Yes. 344 00:23:15,729.966 --> 00:23:17,79.966 Taking there's no destination. 345 00:23:17,709.966 --> 00:23:18,494.966 No, that's true. 346 00:23:18,854.966 --> 00:23:20,774.966 That's, the most beautiful thing about what we do. 347 00:23:21,14.966 --> 00:23:25,604.966 And I noticed I always change, like the things I used to love, I'm not really a fan of anymore. 348 00:23:25,604.966 --> 00:23:27,464.966 And the things I absolutely love now. 349 00:23:27,774.966 --> 00:23:28,554.966 all have changed. 350 00:23:28,644.966 --> 00:23:32,544.966 Everything always evolves and that's not good for better, and that's the thing. 351 00:23:32,724.966 --> 00:23:36,144.966 You're not like, and there's nobody sure people. 352 00:23:38,74.966 --> 00:23:41,404.966 A little further ahead than you are, but they're not better than you. 353 00:23:41,614.966 --> 00:23:41,734.966 Right. 354 00:23:41,734.966 --> 00:23:43,324.966 Everyone can get there. 355 00:23:43,324.966 --> 00:23:45,574.966 This is not, and it's not a race. 356 00:23:46,144.966 --> 00:23:52,954.966 You know, just enjoy your time doing this and the more you enjoy it, the better it's gonna be for you and everyone else. 357 00:23:52,984.966 --> 00:23:53,344.966 That's it. 358 00:23:53,344.966 --> 00:23:53,884.966 Exactly. 359 00:23:53,884.966 --> 00:23:55,504.966 People will be able to tell. 360 00:23:55,509.966 --> 00:23:57,899.966 Oh it's authentic, Oh, absolutely. 361 00:23:58,259.966 --> 00:24:05,219.966 I mean, I have had students lately who've come to me and sat down and like they're just jazzed about this one specific thing. 362 00:24:05,319.966 --> 00:24:05,889.966 You know? Yeah. 363 00:24:05,889.966 --> 00:24:09,429.966 Do you want to be a winemaker in Michigan? Sure. 364 00:24:09,699.966 --> 00:24:10,539.966 Absolutely. 365 00:24:10,749.966 --> 00:24:14,739.966 That's the part of the wine trade that you really find fascinating and interesting. 366 00:24:14,799.966 --> 00:24:15,699.966 Absolutely. 367 00:24:16,929.966 --> 00:24:17,769.966 Do this. 368 00:24:19,49.966 --> 00:24:33,659.966 Are you interested in actually how like trellising and how plants grow? Like I've had another student I talked for an hour about how to graft different kinds of vines or grape vines onto preexisting root stalks. 369 00:24:33,999.966 --> 00:24:35,289.966 But that you can have that. 370 00:24:35,289.966 --> 00:24:36,339.966 And that's the nice thing in wine. 371 00:24:36,339.966 --> 00:24:38,79.966 I mean, yeah, it is. 372 00:24:38,79.966 --> 00:24:40,239.966 If you enjoy it, you can make a life out of it. 373 00:24:40,689.966 --> 00:24:41,989.966 And I really, that's what I do. 374 00:24:42,349.966 --> 00:24:43,309.966 I think that's what you do too. 375 00:24:44,129.966 --> 00:24:45,169.966 was lovely, goodness. 376 00:24:45,259.966 --> 00:24:52,109.966 Again, hey, if you want uplifting conversations, always talk to the chronically depressed guy who runs the white school. 377 00:24:52,679.966 --> 00:24:58,684.966 Well, and we got dangerously close to going in depth about decomp, and I'm glad we kind of pulled back. 378 00:24:58,724.966 --> 00:25:00,984.966 there were a couple times, in today's discussion. 379 00:25:01,284.966 --> 00:25:01,434.966 Oh yes. 380 00:25:01,714.966 --> 00:25:02,734.966 we were talking about. 381 00:25:03,199.966 --> 00:25:05,539.966 Human existence and how close it's to Decom. 382 00:25:08,869.966 --> 00:25:09,499.966 Pulled it back. 383 00:25:09,499.966 --> 00:25:09,919.966 We did. 384 00:25:09,919.966 --> 00:25:10,729.966 And I'm very glad. 385 00:25:10,779.966 --> 00:25:13,179.966 Alright, everyone have a fantastic day. 386 00:25:13,239.966 --> 00:25:14,199.966 Like, subscribe. 387 00:25:14,259.966 --> 00:25:14,709.966 Yes. 388 00:25:14,709.966 --> 00:25:15,549.966 Like, and subscribe. 389 00:25:15,549.966 --> 00:25:15,909.966 out. 390 00:25:16,89.966 --> 00:25:17,889.966 Alright, we're on the case. 391 00:25:18,919.966 --> 00:25:19,849.966 Chow Chow Chow. 392 00:25:21,369.354 --> 00:25:25,879.354 Thank you for listening! We greatly appreciate you and your time. 393 00:25:26,419.354 --> 00:25:34,99.354 If you enjoy what we do, please rate and review The After Wine School Podcast on Apple Podcasts or anywhere you listen to artisanally grown audio. 394 00:25:35,479.354 --> 00:25:36,979.354 God, that is pretentious.