March 25, 2025 • 35 mins
In this episode of After Wine School, hosts Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe discuss the ins and outs of wine tasting room experiences, sharing both horror stories and tips for making the most of your visit. From the importance of setting appointments and being polite to understanding the different types of visitors (and how tasting room staff should cater to each), they cover it all. The episode also features a tasting and detailed analysis of a premier cru burgundy wine, highlighting its complex flavors and aromas. They emphasize the importance of never asking for freebies, always being respectful, and enhancing your tasting experience by asking informed questions. Whether you're a seasoned wine aficionado or a casual enthusiast, this episode offers valuable insights into enjoying wine tastings the right way.
00:00 Introduction to After Wine School
00:49 Today's Topic: Tasting Room Nightmares
01:11 Wine Tasting Session Begins
01:39 Meet the Hosts and Sponsor
02:50 The Importance of Tasting Rooms
04:07 Tasting Room Horror Stories
08:30 How to Be a Good Tasting Room Guest
16:58 Maximizing Your Tasting Room Experience
19:02 Respect and Etiquette in Wine Tasting
20:39 Handling Unfavorable Wines with Grace
21:17 Navigating Local Wineries and Sweet Wines
22:23 Avoiding Palate Disruption
23:14 The Importance of Being Genuine
24:53 Comparing Wines Side by Side
26:02 Enjoying Premier Cru Burgundy
27:10 Describing the Complexities of Pinot Noir
34:07 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to After Wine School, the podcast that demystifies wine and makes it approachable for everyone.
Join Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe, two of the nation's leading wine experts, as they uncork everything you need to know about wine, from picking the right bottle to mastering unforgettable food and wine pairings.
This isn't about stuffy lectures or confusing jargon.
(00:26):
It's about enjoying wine the way it's meant to be.
So grab a glass.
And let's dive in.
Don't forget to subscribe to After Wine School today.
Welcome once again to after school, the wine podcast.
This is our podcast.
(00:48):
It's after school.
The topic today is tasting room nightmares.
Tasting room night.
.9995All right, and we're going to drink, along with this, after, after we talk about this, we're going to actually taste some wine. 14 00:01:09,230.9995 --> 00:01:10,793.994117647 What wines are we tasting today? We're going to taste some wine. 15 00:01:10,793.994117647 --> 00:01:11,389.552941176 Let me show you, Keith. 16 00:01:11,389.552941176 --> 00:01:11,508.664705882 Oh. 17 00:01:11,508.664705882 --> 00:01:17,121 We're going to have a beautiful Pinot Noir from Domaine Bouchard. 18 00:01:17,130.999 --> 00:01:20,695.9 This one's called Bon de Chateau, depending on your group.
(01:21):
That's fantastic.
Oh, premier crew.
Oh, wow.
All right.
Well, I'm gonna leave this here for right now.
Yes.
Let's not taste yet.
Not just, I thought about it.
I was like I know.
Really wanted there was a delay there, I didn't know if you were gonna come back to us.
There was a delay.
There was, so let's.
Quickly introduce ourselves.
My name is Alana Zerbe.
(01:42):
I am the Director of Wine Education at the Wine School of Philadelphia.
And joining me as always is Keith Wallace, the Director and Founder of the Wine School of Philadelphia. 35 00:01:52,640.999 --> 00:02:01,011 And we have an important sponsor to mention, the National Wine School, the premier online education center for aspiring sommeliers.
And they've asked us to make an important disclaimer.
(02:05):
That all of the viewpoints and opinions that you'll hear from us today are purely our own and do not reflect the opinions or viewpoints of the National Wine School or even the Wine School of Philadelphia or any other reputable business you may find us at.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
It's after school.
(02:25):
Yes.
Exactly.
Yes.
.999It's in the name.
The clue is in the name.
Yeah. 48 00:02:31,795.999 --> 00:02:36,016 And it's also great because usually we can't talk about.
.936875I'm going to sit down. 50 00:02:37,545.936875 --> 00:02:38,205.999 I'm going to relax.
Oh, that's good. 52 00:02:39,35.999 --> 00:02:39,466.001 All right.
Yeah.
Well I, It's spilling the tea about the insider things.
And that's what I like doing in this place.
(02:48):
That's what we do here.
.999And you know, and one of the things we were going to talk about, right, is tasting rooms.
And these tasting rooms this is the place. 59 00:02:58,736.001 --> 00:03:00,25.999 And that one thing, set this up.
.999Wineries need their tasting rooms because direct to consumer DTC, right? This is actually where the only way that a winery can sell directly to a consumer, and then hopefully not just there, but also get them on their mailing list and send directly.
(03:13):
So they're making all the profit. 62 00:03:15,665.999 --> 00:03:16,766 This should be somewhere.
If you're a healthy winery, it can be up to 40, 50 percent of your income.
And it's a better way because you, a lot of wineries, if you focus on that.
Then you don't have to deal with the three tier system.
You don't have, it's such a headache sending across country.
It's really the layers of administration and paperwork and just businesses you have to deal with is hard. 68 00:03:41,915.999 --> 00:03:43,836 So it's, the tasting room is essential. 69 00:03:44,485.999 --> 00:03:45,506 It's a key part.
(03:46):
.999And when I used to consult one of the things I would focus on is tasting rooms, but they are also the place where your staff and the public.
Meat to talk about your wines and things go wrong.
(04:07):
So I don't like popping questions on you, but do you have any horror stories? Yeah.
.999So I did, I do have experience working in a tasting room and I would say This is not surprising, but any tasting that involved a bunch of young ladies getting off of a sprinter van, No! Or even worse, a limo, Those were not going to be fun.
(04:41):
And that's a lot of business.
So you will find yourself if you're, you know, if you're working for a winery that's something that you're going to do.
.999So getting people to actually listen to you, describe something, drink slowly understand that it's not an open bar kind of situation. 77 00:05:03,300.999 --> 00:05:03,890.999 Yes. 78 00:05:03,950.999 --> 00:05:05,210.999 But I'll be honest, Keith.
(05:05):
I've had a couple bad experiences with you in a tasting room.
.9You, you are the opposite of a Samzilla, but you also can be not very fun.
Oh, I am a Samzilla.
.999Oh my God.
You're right. 84 00:05:22,870.999 --> 00:05:23,210.999 Okay.
Cause this is, we talked about this cause I am terrible in tasting rooms.
(05:27):
When we teach, let's be honest, like when I teach a class what I, if I find there's a professor in class and we always we do like at the white school of Philadelphia, we have all like Penn professors coming. 87 00:05:38,570.999 --> 00:05:39,161 It's geeky.
Oh yeah.
It's, they love it, but they also, they're the worst oftentimes students because all my Disclaimer. 90 00:05:47,611.1 --> 00:05:48,490.9 Disclaimer. 91 00:05:48,491.1 --> 00:05:59,860.999 I love some, love a lot of them, but especially on one off classes, they do tend to, instead of being it, think of this as a teacher.
(05:59):
.999They think of this as a student, the students that they have, and they start acting like their students.
Now that's bad.
So I know that, but I also know, on the other hand, because I've been in the wine trade for so long, and I've trained people in how to work in a tasting room it's very important, but when I'm in a tasting room, and I'm supposed to be enjoying myself, I can't. 95 00:06:24,270.999 --> 00:06:25,410.999 And I am terrible. 96 00:06:25,440.999 --> 00:06:25,740.999 Okay.
(06:25):
Can I tell a story? Please do.
Because I can illustrate this.
Okay, go ahead.
Talking about, if you're a professor and you come to a wine class, or probably any class, you are used to hearing yourself.
So it can be a little destabilizing when you're expected to just sit and be quiet and just take in information.
And so that, that's understandable.
(06:48):
.999I have a memory of walking into a tasting room with you and you were immediately incensed.
Because, and this was a darling little, I'm not going to say where, I'm not, I'm not even going to give the state just a darling little passion project of a winery with some nice ladies.
(07:13):
Manning the tasting room and you walked in and you said something along the lines of what's with those Freaking traveling systems.
.999How long have they been doing that here? And they looked at you terrified And you turned to me and you said we have to leave and I said We just got here and because they didn't know how to answer your awful question You're too shred because you remember this.
(07:47):
Oh, I know this too well.
And so I get a little context.
This is a winemaker who I know professionally and we've traded wines in the past, not recently.
So I, I know their boss and we've had conversations about trial and systems and so, yeah Oh, it was, I made everyone's, I mean I was, yeah I ruined everyone's there. 111 00:08:11,35.999 --> 00:08:11,366 Oh yeah.
(08:11):
I think we had one wine and for everyone's sanity, we wrapped it up after that.
Yeah. 114 00:08:17,936.1 --> 00:08:18,80.9 Yeah.
So when you get someone who knows a lot, that can be a tasting room horror, too.
Oh yeah.
Oh, I violated all the rules.
Because there are, like there's certain things.
.999So what are, yeah, what are some things you want to do to be a good tasting room guest? Okay.
(08:35):
First off, alright, yeah, obviously, so what I did wrong, and this is really, I, you have to go in realizing that, Everyone there you're not going to be the star of the show.
.999I walked in assuming that as soon as I walked in like I was going to be recognized and they were going to take me behind the scenes, give me a tasting because that's what usually happens.
(08:59):
.999I'd usually, if I'm in a winery, I'm not at the tasting room. 123 00:09:03,195.999 --> 00:09:04,386 I'm like the white man comes out.
And so I, first of all.
I was a patient.
Yes.
Set expectations.
Don't assume that you're the only one there and that you're the most important one there.
.999That was, I, that was, I was much younger.
I was, there was egotistical piece of shit thing to do.
(09:20):
I own it now.
And you're right.
.999You are right.
As my, as you, as my, as a partner at I, even that's hard to say, cause I'm like, yeah, my business partner, my, my peer.
As my peer pulling me out of that because I was just behaving poorly.
(09:42):
Yes.
Go in assuming that you're going to wait, that the people behind, behind the counter may not know everything that, that you know.
They actually may not know as much as you know about the wine.
So one thing just being nice and smiling and sitting there and just be there for the ride.
(10:06):
And just Give them the benefit of the doubt.
Yes.
Just understand that they're If they're there, they love wine.
Yes.
No one behind a tasting room is making a ton of money.
That's true. 146 00:10:17,246.1 --> 00:10:17,765.9 That's true.
They want to be there.
.999They're passionate.
Maybe they're a family of the owners or winemakers. 150 00:10:24,995.999 --> 00:10:26,656 Modulate expectations.
(10:27):
Give them the benefit of the doubt.
But I will also say, I, too, recently have had a An experience where I didn't expect somebody to recognize me or, or know me or grab the winemaker or something, but this person didn't get the cue from the questions I was asking that You can, you should elevate the discussion I don't need to know the difference between red and white wine let's like, let's make this worth each of our time.
(11:01):
.9995Great. 154 00:11:01,355.9995 --> 00:11:01,615.999 Cool.
You're a whore at tasting rooms too.
I was told this was a little bit pushing it but what I did was I made a personal connection, asked this person about their background, how long they've been there and then he.
Would you mind going to the winery if there are some tech sheets laying around? Maybe just look at a tech sheet.
(11:26):
.999All right, there you are.
Yep.
It was probably rude, but it was a waste of my time and it was making me angry.
This person wasn't picking up on the fact that I was asking questions about residual sugar. 162 00:11:38,951.1 --> 00:11:47,666 And you should just No, at that point, elevate it but it can be it shouldn't be a trial.
(11:48):
Yeah.
.999So coming from like training staff, like I always fight because the hard thing is if you are working for a tasting room, you should be able to pinpoint levels of knowledge.
And because you do have different kinds of people going to a tasting room.
You do have the folks just coming in to drink.
(12:08):
Like you have that, right? And they're not important by the way.
.999They're the people who are, if you're coming in to just a drink at a tasting room, that's actually a big no.
It's going to happen, but you're not a priority.
The people who really matter are the people who are sitting down and who are asking questions, who are really engaged.
(12:29):
.999Oh, and let me say this.
I knew I was going to walk out of there buying their wine.
If I knew I wasn't going to be buying any wine, I never would have done that.
.9I walked out of there with a bang.
box of wine, stuff that they didn't even look like it was available for the public.
(12:49):
.999They ended up bringing out and we bought and had a glorious time.
So if I didn't think I was going to buy wine at that place, I never would have asked those questions.
I actually did want to buy.
So keep that in mind too. 180 00:13:00,445.999 --> 00:13:09,526 If you're being If it's difficult, you're going to throw you're going to have to spend money because it's not okay otherwise. 181 00:13:10,85.999 --> 00:13:11,006 If you're taking a lot of time.
(13:11):
That's true.
Wow.
Even if there's a tasting fee, you still are if you are taking their time.
That's true.
Especially if you're being difficult like us. 187 00:13:18,676.001 --> 00:13:19,305.999 And I'm glad you do. 188 00:13:19,375.999 --> 00:13:22,336 I know what winery you're talking about and they do an amazing Syrah.
And if you didn't buy that Syrah from them, I would have been very upset because we can't get that.
And I want it was an amazing time.
I would go back. 192 00:13:30,45.999 --> 00:13:30,796 It was happy. 193 00:13:30,875.999 --> 00:13:31,985.9 We all were happy by the end.
(13:31):
End of it.
The winemaker did come out and apologize for not having tax sheets, but like we all understood at the end of it that my intentions were good.
Yeah.
I wanna go and support them.
Absolutely.
They wanna After wine school is proudly supported by the National Wine School, the gold standard, and professional wine certifications, whether you're dreaming of a career in the wine industry or just eager to take your wine knowledge to the next level, the National Wine School has you covered.
(14:02):
Their programs are trusted, rigorous, and designed for aspiring wine pros like you.
Visit Wine School us to learn more and start your journey today.
so please somebody with.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So on that side, so one other things you should expect.
So people, right? Is that the people behind the behind tasting room should like you should know fundamentals about the wine.
(14:31):
They should be able to understand that.
Yeah, there are, um.
There are certain people you're coming they're the whales.
They're the ones who are going to spend the money.
They're typically asking questions.
Now there's another kind of whale meaning somebody who's going to spend money, is who comes in just for prestige.
.999They're going to come in and you give them a big round tasting.
As long as it's, there's all the bells and whistles are there and you're focused, you're paying attention on them, then they're going to spend a lot of money.
(14:58):
.9And so those are the cases.
Kings.
And those are, so when I was working in California, when I was working in Napa one of the things that if I had as the winemaker, if I had pissed off my boss, everyone, cause everyone has a boss, the winemakers have bosses, the owner of the winery.
And if I had pissed him off, then he was going to, he would actually have me doing, uh at the tasting room or giving tours to sommeliers coming in.
(15:21):
So if I pissed them off, so I would have to but I did learn right away what.
The people in the tasting room did so what they, when you saw somebody who is going to be a whale, I usually someone from Texas Texas are notoriously well known for spending a fortune on wine in Northern California.
(15:42):
They'll come in, they'll buy everything.
And it doesn't matter if it's good or bad, they'll just buy it.
Which is amazing.
Thank you, Texans.
Thank you.
You paid my salary for many years.
But.
So all the focus would go to them.
Now, when I train people in in winemaking, uh, sorry, in a wine tasting situation, not to focus, not just go to the person you know is going to spend, right? Because you do have to see everyone is equal and you do have to see and give everyone the respect and know that this this group over here is going to spend some serious money.
(16:18):
This group over here is just probably just Tasting and drinking and they're going to go and they're going to do that continuum for the rest of the day.
And then you have that middle group, which is the hard group.
That's the group like you and I who are really going to ask a lot of questions, be very difficult. 233 00:16:34,20.999 --> 00:16:37,820.9 We're going to buy, but we're going to, you're going to be working because we're asking, we're going to be asking.
Industry questions, and that's not always available behind you have to know that the person behind that counter is actually knowledgeable. 235 00:16:46,960.9995 --> 00:16:48,901 When I train people, I want to make sure they're knowledgeable.
(16:49):
But I, even more important than that is actually be able to treat everyone equally.
.999So when you're going in, just understand a couple of things.
So when, if you are a customer going into a tasting room, what tips, what, how would you recommend them getting a better.
.999Experience, what as a consumer, what can I do or what can they do to have a better experience at the tasting room and not get pulled out by your peers because you're such a complete dick? Yes.
(17:21):
.6324444That's so funny because I was going to ask you the same thing. 241 00:17:23,356.6324444 --> 00:17:25,160.9 I was going to throw it to you.
.999I think the thing that. 243 00:17:26,466.1 --> 00:17:32,796 And that's what you've taught me to do is if you really want to maximize the experience is to make an appointment.
And to be clear on the phone that you really would like to meet with the winemaker, even if it's only for 15 minutes, and be flexible and willing to go at 7 in the morning, if that's the time that is, you know, when they can fit you in.
(17:48):
.999But I think that's something you've taught me is plan ahead and just be clear that.
You want something that's a little more in depth than the typical consumer experience.
Yes.
That's great.
Yes.
Making the reservation. 251 00:18:02,905.999 --> 00:18:08,816 And if you happen to be in the trade, or if you're taking a wine class, you can mention that, and you should mention that.
(18:08):
It just shows that, you know, where you're at knowledge level, so that they know how to treat you.
Who to put in front of you.
It's very important.
That's a very, that's key, right? Make the appointments.
You come in, you never say you don't like anything.
(18:31):
That table is a fan.
You mentioned that.
They're a huge fan.
They love that wine.
They may be related to the winemaker.
They may be the owner.
You don't know.
And we've had that where actually we had we went, we were at trade tasting and the person behind was The counter was the winemaker's mom.
And I almost said something very mean and I Oh man, I'm a, I'm a terror. 266 00:18:57,70.999 --> 00:18:57,720.999 I'm a terror.
(18:57):
I'm sorry.
.999But it's you're difficult, but the one thing you never do.
Yes. 270 00:19:02,900.999 --> 00:19:03,430.999 Never.
Ever. 272 00:19:04,290.999 --> 00:19:06,550.999 You've never asked for anything for free. 273 00:19:06,790.999 --> 00:19:07,621 Oh no, ever.
Never.
No.
So.
You can say you're in the trade, but do not have a entitlement to Yeah.
Think that you are owed anything on your house.
(19:17):
That's true.
Oh, absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
And they may, there are, you know you know, if you are in the trade, they, you, they may actually call, they may they may not never ask.
Yeah.
And you never ask.
Yeah.
You never ask for anything.
And you just compliment.
So when you go in, because they're such a fan.
Behind, you know, and they may be a member of the family.
You never say, I don't like this ever.
(19:39):
You can say, you know, this is not to my style. 292 00:19:42,735.999 --> 00:19:45,846 I'm more interested in X, Y, Z.
.9995They give you, they offer you a sweet rosé or something weird. 294 00:19:49,945.9995 --> 00:19:52,016 You're like this is not to my liking.
I'm not too well, this is not what I'm looking for right now.
What I'm really looking, I'm interested in are big, heavy red wines, or I'm looking for light aromatic wines to start with, Or even set expectations like I can't taste all your wines.
(20:04):
That's a good one.
Yeah.
I do that a lot.
And only I have you know, just give you the I can only taste three or four wines. 301 00:20:12,915.999 --> 00:20:16,926 What ones would you recommend? Any of this, put the power on them.
Allow them to have agency, allow that, the the Tasty World personnel to have agency, compliment the wines, even if, and if they're giving you something and you think it's awful you just may be out of your league or you are at a really terrible winery.
(20:37):
And I've had that happen.
So we have now the winery, we went to a winery.
.999We were working, we were at a winery and I'm not going to say where, but it ended up being, going out of business and being bought by a very famous person.
And it was just an awful winery, but here we went and I've never been nicer.
(20:59):
Here's the thing look you know, I, they don't need me to tell them that they're not going to survive.
That they don't need me.
There's nothing they can do about it.
No.
And I don't want to break anyone's heart.
So yeah, definitely never say, I dislike this.
Oh, and can I also say, if, especially here on the East Coast, a lot of local wineries will make sweet wines, will make chocolate wine, blueberry wine, whatever.
(21:30):
Yeah. 315 00:21:30,886.1 --> 00:21:31,266 But don't.
Dog them for that, because that's actually where they make a lot of money, and so that is oftentimes what local wineries have to do to stay in business.
So don't make them have to apologize for those offerings. 318 00:21:46,765.999 --> 00:21:48,525.999 Right, that actually happens everywhere.
So there's always the moneymaker the thing that either they're promoting very hard that that they're, and usually the less expensive wines.
(21:57):
And so sometimes when you go into a tasting room, if you don't want to go through all these mid tier or low tier wines, or just their money makers you may have to ask for like the premium tasting and be willing to pay for it so that you're not actually drinking wines that you can drink.
Yeah.
You want to get to the, what they're well known for, what they're famous for, what they're respected, specifically respected for.
(22:21):
.999Oh, and can I say this? This is a good tip.
Yes.
Our theme was nightmare, but I will say, go easy on any food.
.999In fact, try to avoid eating any food at the tasting room. 327 00:22:32,890.999 --> 00:22:34,300.999 It's going to mess up your palate. 328 00:22:34,410.999 --> 00:22:34,910.999 That's true. 329 00:22:34,920.999 --> 00:22:35,820.999 It just does.
Yeah.
And so one of the things I, Always did when we had if I was working with a wider, that wasn't particularly good.
(22:44):
They they weren't topped here.
And they really needed to pump up their tasting experience.
Always had food and very specifically would have you know, cheese.
Exactly.
Always cheese.
And because that's going to change your palate.
Everything's going to taste much better, especially those reds.
(23:05):
It's a really easy fix for a winery that's trying to compete.
Maybe their wines aren't there yet to get wine sales.
So, that.
Another thing when you're in a tasting room, along with being just respectful, kind you'll, FYI, that goes so far, like just by saying, I love this.
(23:27):
Thank you.
I love your winery.
Ask you a little bit about them, the winery, let them do their spiel. 346 00:23:33,660.999 --> 00:23:41,130.999 That will oftentimes get you so far, respect so far that they start, might start pulling out like really cool stuff.
That happens a lot to us and largely because I just say something nice.
That's really important.
(23:47):
Be genuine, be authentic.
.9Be honest.
Don't lie.
But yeah, just be your best self in that situation.
.999You tend to get way more back than you gave which is really, I think is a critical piece and.
.9995The one thing, though, and this is the thing that happens, this is, you can be at a winery, at the tasting room, enjoying yourself, thinking all the wines are great, and then you walk home, or drive home, and you have a case of wines, you start tasting it, but you really just don't like them, nearly as much as you'd like them at the winery. 355 00:24:20,90.9995 --> 00:24:21,431 It happens all the time.
(24:22):
One of the things we do at a winery, a tasting room is in fact, because as we're talking to you, you're always tasting one thing, and as we're describing that wine, they're just, or they're describing that wine to you, the consumer.
You're hearing all this, and now all of a sudden you're smelling it.
It's easy to gently manipulate someone by.
(24:46):
Recommending certain smells and flavors and only saying nice things about the wine.
How you can get away from that.
.9995Now, at Wine School, we do this very specifically. 362 00:24:55,485.9995 --> 00:24:57,516 We always have two wines side by side.
So that no matter what, you can always differentiate wines.
You can always go to a second wine to realize if you're noticing it or not.
(25:06):
And so I always recommend if you can, asking for two glasses so you can compare wines side by side.
.999It's a great thing to be able to do.
.999It's a great hack so that.
That you're brave.
Will not actually bend to the will of the person talking to you.
Cause especially if it's somebody you respect, especially if it's a winemaker like they'll tell you, it smells like broccoli and Parmesan cheese and you're like, Oh, it does.
(25:34):
You can easily fall into that trap.
However, having wine side by side, you're like notice you it's a great way to actually also build up your palate and start recognizing flavors and smells.
Outside of what they're just telling you.
I like it.
Yes.
What do you want? That was getting a little stiff.
(25:54):
Oh no.
I think wine would help.
Fine.
Fine.
There you go.
Just some burgundy today. 383 00:26:04,635.999 --> 00:26:05,425.999 Burgundy.
All right. 385 00:26:07,375.999 --> 00:26:08,596 We've already told them what it was.
So I guess I'm just going to hand this glass to you.
That's one glass.
I'm going to take another glass myself.
(26:16):
And Yeah.
I'm all up for this.
All right.
Burgundy, and specifically, Premier Cru Burgundy, and bone of all wonderful places. 393 00:26:33,980.999 --> 00:26:37,401 This is a this is special, and this is a rare occasion.
(26:37):
This is the kind of wine you buy, you drink, when you want to truly enjoy life.
It's, this is not.
It is a treat.
Yes. 398 00:26:49,571.1 --> 00:26:49,746 Okay.
Okay.
So I'm gonna swirl this puppy a little bit first.
I want to stick my nose in it.
All right.
So have you given it? All right, you stuck your nose in there.
(26:58):
I have.
.999All right.
Oh We definitely made sure we decanted this for about an hour ahead of time.
Gently. 408 00:27:08,225.999 --> 00:27:08,835.999 Gently. 409 00:27:08,835.999 --> 00:27:09,55.999 Yeah.
Gently.
Yeah. 412 00:27:10,216.001 --> 00:27:14,736 Now How would you describe that nose? Violets.
Violets.
Yeah.
Now, Pinot Noir, which is what burgundy is it has its vital fingerprint.
(27:24):
It's something we teach in training for the soirees.
All the time.
Barnyard roses on, for aromatics, light bodied, low tannins, high acid.
.999This is what Pinot Noir is, the framework, what this burgundy does, it fills it out in a way that it turns those floral notes, those roses into, oh my God, exotic violet.
(27:47):
But there's also yeah, there's a little lilac in there too red flowers, not white flowers this time.
Beautiful.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
This is.
It's.
It's getting more, I'm getting like fennel and some spicy notes.
Yes.
And the barnyard, okay, let's talk barnyard right now.
(28:09):
We, that's a euphemism for barnyard funk.
Ooh.
There's always that barnyard note in Pino.
It's part of the whole perfume component of it.
It's the thing that's underlying everything.
It's the weird thing that.
(28:31):
Ugly thing that makes everything beautiful like perfume.
There's always this oud note in perfume The thing that's really funky and earthy and like sometimes like sweaty But then you wrap it around with all that wonderful floral notes.
Now, this is doing that it's doing it In such a complex way.
This makes most Pino smell like department store or like CVS perfume.
(28:55):
And this is like the most beautiful expensive.
.999And I don't know what's the most expensive perfume these days. 441 00:29:04,350.999 --> 00:29:05,250.999 I have no idea.
Byredo is pretty incredible.
Oh.
You've never heard of it.
No.
I have no idea what that is.
That could be an island off the Greek coast, as far as I know.
(29:16):
But it is.
If you love perfume, you'll love Pinot.
Yeah.
.2357143So we have this and the barnyard though, isn't barnyard it's more there's a, there's not rustic, but it's earth and it's wet loamy earth underneath you, you like you are in a, it's like being in a garden where you have all those wonderful floral notes as you walk through your, as you're walking past, you're rustling through Those sets, but also as you're walking, you're lifting up some of that very much that humus like nose, mossy leaves. 452 00:29:48,833.2357143 --> 00:29:50,193.9142857 It is it's forest floor. 453 00:29:50,193.9142857 --> 00:29:51,10.3214286 Like it is. 454 00:29:51,10.3214286 --> 00:29:51,282.4571429 Yeah. 455 00:29:51,282.4571429 --> 00:29:51,554.5928571 Yeah. 456 00:29:51,554.5928571 --> 00:29:51,826.7285714 Yeah. 457 00:29:51,826.7285714 --> 00:29:57,311 Can you take a sip? No, no sip for you.
(29:59):
.999Oh boy. 459 00:30:00,130.999 --> 00:30:01,270.999 I'm in trouble.
.999Oh, okay. 461 00:30:07,70.999 --> 00:30:07,491 All right.
Okay.
That this.
So the thing that is so magic about those is that the attack, I know that Burgundy and Pinot Jaune, it's going to be light.
(30:22):
It's going to be ethereal.
.999You may have to pay attention to it more so than you would most wines. 467 00:30:28,131.099 --> 00:30:28,991 All right.
.999This is not Zinfandel. 469 00:30:31,340.999 --> 00:30:32,461 Zinfandel is going to hit you in the face.
Pay attention to me.
I love you.
Zin is like the like the black lab.
That's what I was just thinking.
Yeah.
Why? Yes.
Yeah.
And this is like the baji for dog.
(30:45):
If we're gonna the keep that line like it's a jaw.
It's kind like you have to focus, it's there.
It's rare, it's unique and and you really gotta drill down.
It's quiet.
It's, but it's got this wonderful sinuous, beautiful soulful.
But you have to focus on it.
It's not the other way around.
(31:05):
It's not going to come at you.
Yeah.
It's more, almost like a cat like in that regards.
Yeah.
But here, it actually catches my attention right away.
And that's a little bit of the magic of Bone and premiere crew from Bone is that it, it captures so the fruit comes right out, right up front and it does this thing.
And it's, I forget the name of this fruit, it's the most pretentious fruit.
(31:28):
It starts off like really rich, dark fruit, and then it turns to like high, like cranberry, but there's a fruit that does that.
I don't remember the name of it.
It's got all the seeds.
It's not so pretentious.
It's pomegranate.
Okay.
.999It's not pretentious.
It is second only to quinces, the most pretentious fruit.
Did I tell you that I this is back in the eighties when I was a sous chef.
(31:56):
A vendor sent us pomegranates and my chef said, do something with that.
We didn't know what they were.
Okay.
And I opened it up and I was like, it's just nothing but seeds.
Like I have no idea. 506 00:32:05,965.999 --> 00:32:08,356 So I tried to juice it, but I don't know.
I was, Marcia was so angry with me that I, it took me like an hour and I got like maybe a quarter cup of, so we made a beurre blanc out of it and oh my God, oh, I was not.
(32:23):
Yeah, that was, yeah, not my best day.
Sorry to hear that.
However, I, I.
It is it's a beautiful complex for note on a PAL.
Oh.
Yeah.
And then it leads from there and goes there and then, yeah, then it rising, you can, the high acidity starts to be really evident soon as it goes from that dark fruit to cranberry fruit, which is what pomegranates do.
(32:44):
They do that wonderful thing where it's all just dark fruit and then turns really crisp and bright as soon as the acid hits your palate.
.999And then it moves on.
So it has wrapped around with just the barest amount of tannins.
There's a filigree of tannins. 519 00:32:59,410.999 --> 00:33:00,381 That's lovely. 520 00:33:00,990.999 --> 00:33:02,221 It is a little young.
What we're going to have is a little young.
I think.
(33:06):
I don't even know what, oh yeah, this is only this puppy is only a couple of years old.
.999I would like to have at least five years to six years on my burgundy so that the thing that, and it's lovely, but it's like steep tea.
It's like almost like a white tea note that where the tannins are rising up, drying out the mid palette to the finish, which does happen if it's rather young it's delicious, delightful, but I know it's going to get better with age because of that.
(33:34):
And that.
Makes me sad that we're drinking it now, but I'm also happy we're drinking it now.
So I'm very conflicted about this because I'm happy sad, which is Oh, I'm sure everyone right now is like, Oh, yeah, exactly. 529 00:33:47,75.999 --> 00:33:47,265.999 Exactly.
Oh, he's drinking premier crew burgundy and talking smack.
Yeah. 532 00:33:53,295.999 --> 00:33:53,496 Oh yeah.
.899Oh yeah. 534 00:33:55,135.999 --> 00:33:55,565.999 I know. 535 00:33:55,615.999 --> 00:33:57,385.999 I'm going to have to get a tear tattoo.
(33:59):
I think it's, this has been great.
This has been fantastic. 538 00:34:01,981.1 --> 00:34:02,810.9 I think it was fun.
I really want to talk more about this, but I think I guess I'm just going to drink it now.
I think it's time to wrap up.
All right then.
.999Hey folks, have a great day, enjoy, drink good wines.
Subscribe, tell your friends about this.
If people, maybe a little too snooty about wine, maybe a little too pretentious, they want to be you want to knock them down a few pegs.
(34:24):
Allow them another voice that you don't have to be, you can know a lot about wine, but not be pretentious about it. 546 00:34:31,885.999 --> 00:34:32,966 Own your mistakes.
I've made a lot of mistakes in tasting rooms as a consumer.
Hopefully you learned a few things of what to do and how to get better.
Attention, more attention, having a better time in a tasting room.
I hope they've learned something.
(34:45):
I hope they they enjoy this.
Subscribe, come back for the next one.
Hopefully see you soon.
Cheers.
Thanks for spending time with us on After Wine School.
.999If you enjoyed today's episode, hit subscribe so you never miss out on more wine wisdom, tips, and laughs.
Welcome to After Wine School, the podcast that demystifies wine and makes it approachable for everyone.
Join Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe, two of the nation's leading wine experts, as they uncork everything you need to know about wine, from picking the right bottle to mastering unforgettable food and wine pairings.
This isn't about stuffy lectures or confusing jargon.
(00:26):
It's about enjoying wine the way it's meant to be.
So grab a glass.
And let's dive in.
Don't forget to subscribe to After Wine School today.
Welcome once again to after school, the wine podcast.
This is our podcast.
(00:48):
It's after school.
The topic today is tasting room nightmares.
Tasting room night.
.9995All right, and we're going to drink, along with this, after, after we talk about this, we're going to actually taste some wine. 14 00:01:09,230.9995 --> 00:01:10,793.994117647 What wines are we tasting today? We're going to taste some wine. 15 00:01:10,793.994117647 --> 00:01:11,389.552941176 Let me show you, Keith. 16 00:01:11,389.552941176 --> 00:01:11,508.664705882 Oh. 17 00:01:11,508.664705882 --> 00:01:17,121 We're going to have a beautiful Pinot Noir from Domaine Bouchard. 18 00:01:17,130.999 --> 00:01:20,695.9 This one's called Bon de Chateau, depending on your group.
(01:21):
That's fantastic.
Oh, premier crew.
Oh, wow.
All right.
Well, I'm gonna leave this here for right now.
Yes.
Let's not taste yet.
Not just, I thought about it.
I was like I know.
Really wanted there was a delay there, I didn't know if you were gonna come back to us.
There was a delay.
There was, so let's.
Quickly introduce ourselves.
My name is Alana Zerbe.
(01:42):
I am the Director of Wine Education at the Wine School of Philadelphia.
And joining me as always is Keith Wallace, the Director and Founder of the Wine School of Philadelphia. 35 00:01:52,640.999 --> 00:02:01,011 And we have an important sponsor to mention, the National Wine School, the premier online education center for aspiring sommeliers.
And they've asked us to make an important disclaimer.
(02:05):
That all of the viewpoints and opinions that you'll hear from us today are purely our own and do not reflect the opinions or viewpoints of the National Wine School or even the Wine School of Philadelphia or any other reputable business you may find us at.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
It's after school.
(02:25):
Yes.
Exactly.
Yes.
.999It's in the name.
The clue is in the name.
Yeah. 48 00:02:31,795.999 --> 00:02:36,016 And it's also great because usually we can't talk about.
.936875I'm going to sit down. 50 00:02:37,545.936875 --> 00:02:38,205.999 I'm going to relax.
Oh, that's good. 52 00:02:39,35.999 --> 00:02:39,466.001 All right.
Yeah.
Well I, It's spilling the tea about the insider things.
And that's what I like doing in this place.
(02:48):
That's what we do here.
.999And you know, and one of the things we were going to talk about, right, is tasting rooms.
And these tasting rooms this is the place. 59 00:02:58,736.001 --> 00:03:00,25.999 And that one thing, set this up.
.999Wineries need their tasting rooms because direct to consumer DTC, right? This is actually where the only way that a winery can sell directly to a consumer, and then hopefully not just there, but also get them on their mailing list and send directly.
(03:13):
So they're making all the profit. 62 00:03:15,665.999 --> 00:03:16,766 This should be somewhere.
If you're a healthy winery, it can be up to 40, 50 percent of your income.
And it's a better way because you, a lot of wineries, if you focus on that.
Then you don't have to deal with the three tier system.
You don't have, it's such a headache sending across country.
It's really the layers of administration and paperwork and just businesses you have to deal with is hard. 68 00:03:41,915.999 --> 00:03:43,836 So it's, the tasting room is essential. 69 00:03:44,485.999 --> 00:03:45,506 It's a key part.
(03:46):
.999And when I used to consult one of the things I would focus on is tasting rooms, but they are also the place where your staff and the public.
Meat to talk about your wines and things go wrong.
(04:07):
So I don't like popping questions on you, but do you have any horror stories? Yeah.
.999So I did, I do have experience working in a tasting room and I would say This is not surprising, but any tasting that involved a bunch of young ladies getting off of a sprinter van, No! Or even worse, a limo, Those were not going to be fun.
(04:41):
And that's a lot of business.
So you will find yourself if you're, you know, if you're working for a winery that's something that you're going to do.
.999So getting people to actually listen to you, describe something, drink slowly understand that it's not an open bar kind of situation. 77 00:05:03,300.999 --> 00:05:03,890.999 Yes. 78 00:05:03,950.999 --> 00:05:05,210.999 But I'll be honest, Keith.
(05:05):
I've had a couple bad experiences with you in a tasting room.
.9You, you are the opposite of a Samzilla, but you also can be not very fun.
Oh, I am a Samzilla.
.999Oh my God.
You're right. 84 00:05:22,870.999 --> 00:05:23,210.999 Okay.
Cause this is, we talked about this cause I am terrible in tasting rooms.
(05:27):
When we teach, let's be honest, like when I teach a class what I, if I find there's a professor in class and we always we do like at the white school of Philadelphia, we have all like Penn professors coming. 87 00:05:38,570.999 --> 00:05:39,161 It's geeky.
Oh yeah.
It's, they love it, but they also, they're the worst oftentimes students because all my Disclaimer. 90 00:05:47,611.1 --> 00:05:48,490.9 Disclaimer. 91 00:05:48,491.1 --> 00:05:59,860.999 I love some, love a lot of them, but especially on one off classes, they do tend to, instead of being it, think of this as a teacher.
(05:59):
.999They think of this as a student, the students that they have, and they start acting like their students.
Now that's bad.
So I know that, but I also know, on the other hand, because I've been in the wine trade for so long, and I've trained people in how to work in a tasting room it's very important, but when I'm in a tasting room, and I'm supposed to be enjoying myself, I can't. 95 00:06:24,270.999 --> 00:06:25,410.999 And I am terrible. 96 00:06:25,440.999 --> 00:06:25,740.999 Okay.
(06:25):
Can I tell a story? Please do.
Because I can illustrate this.
Okay, go ahead.
Talking about, if you're a professor and you come to a wine class, or probably any class, you are used to hearing yourself.
So it can be a little destabilizing when you're expected to just sit and be quiet and just take in information.
And so that, that's understandable.
(06:48):
.999I have a memory of walking into a tasting room with you and you were immediately incensed.
Because, and this was a darling little, I'm not going to say where, I'm not, I'm not even going to give the state just a darling little passion project of a winery with some nice ladies.
(07:13):
Manning the tasting room and you walked in and you said something along the lines of what's with those Freaking traveling systems.
.999How long have they been doing that here? And they looked at you terrified And you turned to me and you said we have to leave and I said We just got here and because they didn't know how to answer your awful question You're too shred because you remember this.
(07:47):
Oh, I know this too well.
And so I get a little context.
This is a winemaker who I know professionally and we've traded wines in the past, not recently.
So I, I know their boss and we've had conversations about trial and systems and so, yeah Oh, it was, I made everyone's, I mean I was, yeah I ruined everyone's there. 111 00:08:11,35.999 --> 00:08:11,366 Oh yeah.
(08:11):
I think we had one wine and for everyone's sanity, we wrapped it up after that.
Yeah. 114 00:08:17,936.1 --> 00:08:18,80.9 Yeah.
So when you get someone who knows a lot, that can be a tasting room horror, too.
Oh yeah.
Oh, I violated all the rules.
Because there are, like there's certain things.
.999So what are, yeah, what are some things you want to do to be a good tasting room guest? Okay.
(08:35):
First off, alright, yeah, obviously, so what I did wrong, and this is really, I, you have to go in realizing that, Everyone there you're not going to be the star of the show.
.999I walked in assuming that as soon as I walked in like I was going to be recognized and they were going to take me behind the scenes, give me a tasting because that's what usually happens.
(08:59):
.999I'd usually, if I'm in a winery, I'm not at the tasting room. 123 00:09:03,195.999 --> 00:09:04,386 I'm like the white man comes out.
And so I, first of all.
I was a patient.
Yes.
Set expectations.
Don't assume that you're the only one there and that you're the most important one there.
.999That was, I, that was, I was much younger.
I was, there was egotistical piece of shit thing to do.
(09:20):
I own it now.
And you're right.
.999You are right.
As my, as you, as my, as a partner at I, even that's hard to say, cause I'm like, yeah, my business partner, my, my peer.
As my peer pulling me out of that because I was just behaving poorly.
(09:42):
Yes.
Go in assuming that you're going to wait, that the people behind, behind the counter may not know everything that, that you know.
They actually may not know as much as you know about the wine.
So one thing just being nice and smiling and sitting there and just be there for the ride.
(10:06):
And just Give them the benefit of the doubt.
Yes.
Just understand that they're If they're there, they love wine.
Yes.
No one behind a tasting room is making a ton of money.
That's true. 146 00:10:17,246.1 --> 00:10:17,765.9 That's true.
They want to be there.
.999They're passionate.
Maybe they're a family of the owners or winemakers. 150 00:10:24,995.999 --> 00:10:26,656 Modulate expectations.
(10:27):
Give them the benefit of the doubt.
But I will also say, I, too, recently have had a An experience where I didn't expect somebody to recognize me or, or know me or grab the winemaker or something, but this person didn't get the cue from the questions I was asking that You can, you should elevate the discussion I don't need to know the difference between red and white wine let's like, let's make this worth each of our time.
(11:01):
.9995Great. 154 00:11:01,355.9995 --> 00:11:01,615.999 Cool.
You're a whore at tasting rooms too.
I was told this was a little bit pushing it but what I did was I made a personal connection, asked this person about their background, how long they've been there and then he.
Would you mind going to the winery if there are some tech sheets laying around? Maybe just look at a tech sheet.
(11:26):
.999All right, there you are.
Yep.
It was probably rude, but it was a waste of my time and it was making me angry.
This person wasn't picking up on the fact that I was asking questions about residual sugar. 162 00:11:38,951.1 --> 00:11:47,666 And you should just No, at that point, elevate it but it can be it shouldn't be a trial.
(11:48):
Yeah.
.999So coming from like training staff, like I always fight because the hard thing is if you are working for a tasting room, you should be able to pinpoint levels of knowledge.
And because you do have different kinds of people going to a tasting room.
You do have the folks just coming in to drink.
(12:08):
Like you have that, right? And they're not important by the way.
.999They're the people who are, if you're coming in to just a drink at a tasting room, that's actually a big no.
It's going to happen, but you're not a priority.
The people who really matter are the people who are sitting down and who are asking questions, who are really engaged.
(12:29):
.999Oh, and let me say this.
I knew I was going to walk out of there buying their wine.
If I knew I wasn't going to be buying any wine, I never would have done that.
.9I walked out of there with a bang.
box of wine, stuff that they didn't even look like it was available for the public.
(12:49):
.999They ended up bringing out and we bought and had a glorious time.
So if I didn't think I was going to buy wine at that place, I never would have asked those questions.
I actually did want to buy.
So keep that in mind too. 180 00:13:00,445.999 --> 00:13:09,526 If you're being If it's difficult, you're going to throw you're going to have to spend money because it's not okay otherwise. 181 00:13:10,85.999 --> 00:13:11,006 If you're taking a lot of time.
(13:11):
That's true.
Wow.
Even if there's a tasting fee, you still are if you are taking their time.
That's true.
Especially if you're being difficult like us. 187 00:13:18,676.001 --> 00:13:19,305.999 And I'm glad you do. 188 00:13:19,375.999 --> 00:13:22,336 I know what winery you're talking about and they do an amazing Syrah.
And if you didn't buy that Syrah from them, I would have been very upset because we can't get that.
And I want it was an amazing time.
I would go back. 192 00:13:30,45.999 --> 00:13:30,796 It was happy. 193 00:13:30,875.999 --> 00:13:31,985.9 We all were happy by the end.
(13:31):
End of it.
The winemaker did come out and apologize for not having tax sheets, but like we all understood at the end of it that my intentions were good.
Yeah.
I wanna go and support them.
Absolutely.
They wanna After wine school is proudly supported by the National Wine School, the gold standard, and professional wine certifications, whether you're dreaming of a career in the wine industry or just eager to take your wine knowledge to the next level, the National Wine School has you covered.
(14:02):
Their programs are trusted, rigorous, and designed for aspiring wine pros like you.
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so please somebody with.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So on that side, so one other things you should expect.
So people, right? Is that the people behind the behind tasting room should like you should know fundamentals about the wine.
(14:31):
They should be able to understand that.
Yeah, there are, um.
There are certain people you're coming they're the whales.
They're the ones who are going to spend the money.
They're typically asking questions.
Now there's another kind of whale meaning somebody who's going to spend money, is who comes in just for prestige.
.999They're going to come in and you give them a big round tasting.
As long as it's, there's all the bells and whistles are there and you're focused, you're paying attention on them, then they're going to spend a lot of money.
(14:58):
.9And so those are the cases.
Kings.
And those are, so when I was working in California, when I was working in Napa one of the things that if I had as the winemaker, if I had pissed off my boss, everyone, cause everyone has a boss, the winemakers have bosses, the owner of the winery.
And if I had pissed him off, then he was going to, he would actually have me doing, uh at the tasting room or giving tours to sommeliers coming in.
(15:21):
So if I pissed them off, so I would have to but I did learn right away what.
The people in the tasting room did so what they, when you saw somebody who is going to be a whale, I usually someone from Texas Texas are notoriously well known for spending a fortune on wine in Northern California.
(15:42):
They'll come in, they'll buy everything.
And it doesn't matter if it's good or bad, they'll just buy it.
Which is amazing.
Thank you, Texans.
Thank you.
You paid my salary for many years.
But.
So all the focus would go to them.
Now, when I train people in in winemaking, uh, sorry, in a wine tasting situation, not to focus, not just go to the person you know is going to spend, right? Because you do have to see everyone is equal and you do have to see and give everyone the respect and know that this this group over here is going to spend some serious money.
(16:18):
This group over here is just probably just Tasting and drinking and they're going to go and they're going to do that continuum for the rest of the day.
And then you have that middle group, which is the hard group.
That's the group like you and I who are really going to ask a lot of questions, be very difficult. 233 00:16:34,20.999 --> 00:16:37,820.9 We're going to buy, but we're going to, you're going to be working because we're asking, we're going to be asking.
Industry questions, and that's not always available behind you have to know that the person behind that counter is actually knowledgeable. 235 00:16:46,960.9995 --> 00:16:48,901 When I train people, I want to make sure they're knowledgeable.
(16:49):
But I, even more important than that is actually be able to treat everyone equally.
.999So when you're going in, just understand a couple of things.
So when, if you are a customer going into a tasting room, what tips, what, how would you recommend them getting a better.
.999Experience, what as a consumer, what can I do or what can they do to have a better experience at the tasting room and not get pulled out by your peers because you're such a complete dick? Yes.
(17:21):
.6324444That's so funny because I was going to ask you the same thing. 241 00:17:23,356.6324444 --> 00:17:25,160.9 I was going to throw it to you.
.999I think the thing that. 243 00:17:26,466.1 --> 00:17:32,796 And that's what you've taught me to do is if you really want to maximize the experience is to make an appointment.
And to be clear on the phone that you really would like to meet with the winemaker, even if it's only for 15 minutes, and be flexible and willing to go at 7 in the morning, if that's the time that is, you know, when they can fit you in.
(17:48):
.999But I think that's something you've taught me is plan ahead and just be clear that.
You want something that's a little more in depth than the typical consumer experience.
Yes.
That's great.
Yes.
Making the reservation. 251 00:18:02,905.999 --> 00:18:08,816 And if you happen to be in the trade, or if you're taking a wine class, you can mention that, and you should mention that.
(18:08):
It just shows that, you know, where you're at knowledge level, so that they know how to treat you.
Who to put in front of you.
It's very important.
That's a very, that's key, right? Make the appointments.
You come in, you never say you don't like anything.
(18:31):
That table is a fan.
You mentioned that.
They're a huge fan.
They love that wine.
They may be related to the winemaker.
They may be the owner.
You don't know.
And we've had that where actually we had we went, we were at trade tasting and the person behind was The counter was the winemaker's mom.
And I almost said something very mean and I Oh man, I'm a, I'm a terror. 266 00:18:57,70.999 --> 00:18:57,720.999 I'm a terror.
(18:57):
I'm sorry.
.999But it's you're difficult, but the one thing you never do.
Yes. 270 00:19:02,900.999 --> 00:19:03,430.999 Never.
Ever. 272 00:19:04,290.999 --> 00:19:06,550.999 You've never asked for anything for free. 273 00:19:06,790.999 --> 00:19:07,621 Oh no, ever.
Never.
No.
So.
You can say you're in the trade, but do not have a entitlement to Yeah.
Think that you are owed anything on your house.
(19:17):
That's true.
Oh, absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
And they may, there are, you know you know, if you are in the trade, they, you, they may actually call, they may they may not never ask.
Yeah.
And you never ask.
Yeah.
You never ask for anything.
And you just compliment.
So when you go in, because they're such a fan.
Behind, you know, and they may be a member of the family.
You never say, I don't like this ever.
(19:39):
You can say, you know, this is not to my style. 292 00:19:42,735.999 --> 00:19:45,846 I'm more interested in X, Y, Z.
.9995They give you, they offer you a sweet rosé or something weird. 294 00:19:49,945.9995 --> 00:19:52,016 You're like this is not to my liking.
I'm not too well, this is not what I'm looking for right now.
What I'm really looking, I'm interested in are big, heavy red wines, or I'm looking for light aromatic wines to start with, Or even set expectations like I can't taste all your wines.
(20:04):
That's a good one.
Yeah.
I do that a lot.
And only I have you know, just give you the I can only taste three or four wines. 301 00:20:12,915.999 --> 00:20:16,926 What ones would you recommend? Any of this, put the power on them.
Allow them to have agency, allow that, the the Tasty World personnel to have agency, compliment the wines, even if, and if they're giving you something and you think it's awful you just may be out of your league or you are at a really terrible winery.
(20:37):
And I've had that happen.
So we have now the winery, we went to a winery.
.999We were working, we were at a winery and I'm not going to say where, but it ended up being, going out of business and being bought by a very famous person.
And it was just an awful winery, but here we went and I've never been nicer.
(20:59):
Here's the thing look you know, I, they don't need me to tell them that they're not going to survive.
That they don't need me.
There's nothing they can do about it.
No.
And I don't want to break anyone's heart.
So yeah, definitely never say, I dislike this.
Oh, and can I also say, if, especially here on the East Coast, a lot of local wineries will make sweet wines, will make chocolate wine, blueberry wine, whatever.
(21:30):
Yeah. 315 00:21:30,886.1 --> 00:21:31,266 But don't.
Dog them for that, because that's actually where they make a lot of money, and so that is oftentimes what local wineries have to do to stay in business.
So don't make them have to apologize for those offerings. 318 00:21:46,765.999 --> 00:21:48,525.999 Right, that actually happens everywhere.
So there's always the moneymaker the thing that either they're promoting very hard that that they're, and usually the less expensive wines.
(21:57):
And so sometimes when you go into a tasting room, if you don't want to go through all these mid tier or low tier wines, or just their money makers you may have to ask for like the premium tasting and be willing to pay for it so that you're not actually drinking wines that you can drink.
Yeah.
You want to get to the, what they're well known for, what they're famous for, what they're respected, specifically respected for.
(22:21):
.999Oh, and can I say this? This is a good tip.
Yes.
Our theme was nightmare, but I will say, go easy on any food.
.999In fact, try to avoid eating any food at the tasting room. 327 00:22:32,890.999 --> 00:22:34,300.999 It's going to mess up your palate. 328 00:22:34,410.999 --> 00:22:34,910.999 That's true. 329 00:22:34,920.999 --> 00:22:35,820.999 It just does.
Yeah.
And so one of the things I, Always did when we had if I was working with a wider, that wasn't particularly good.
(22:44):
They they weren't topped here.
And they really needed to pump up their tasting experience.
Always had food and very specifically would have you know, cheese.
Exactly.
Always cheese.
And because that's going to change your palate.
Everything's going to taste much better, especially those reds.
(23:05):
It's a really easy fix for a winery that's trying to compete.
Maybe their wines aren't there yet to get wine sales.
So, that.
Another thing when you're in a tasting room, along with being just respectful, kind you'll, FYI, that goes so far, like just by saying, I love this.
(23:27):
Thank you.
I love your winery.
Ask you a little bit about them, the winery, let them do their spiel. 346 00:23:33,660.999 --> 00:23:41,130.999 That will oftentimes get you so far, respect so far that they start, might start pulling out like really cool stuff.
That happens a lot to us and largely because I just say something nice.
That's really important.
(23:47):
Be genuine, be authentic.
.9Be honest.
Don't lie.
But yeah, just be your best self in that situation.
.999You tend to get way more back than you gave which is really, I think is a critical piece and.
.9995The one thing, though, and this is the thing that happens, this is, you can be at a winery, at the tasting room, enjoying yourself, thinking all the wines are great, and then you walk home, or drive home, and you have a case of wines, you start tasting it, but you really just don't like them, nearly as much as you'd like them at the winery. 355 00:24:20,90.9995 --> 00:24:21,431 It happens all the time.
(24:22):
One of the things we do at a winery, a tasting room is in fact, because as we're talking to you, you're always tasting one thing, and as we're describing that wine, they're just, or they're describing that wine to you, the consumer.
You're hearing all this, and now all of a sudden you're smelling it.
It's easy to gently manipulate someone by.
(24:46):
Recommending certain smells and flavors and only saying nice things about the wine.
How you can get away from that.
.9995Now, at Wine School, we do this very specifically. 362 00:24:55,485.9995 --> 00:24:57,516 We always have two wines side by side.
So that no matter what, you can always differentiate wines.
You can always go to a second wine to realize if you're noticing it or not.
(25:06):
And so I always recommend if you can, asking for two glasses so you can compare wines side by side.
.999It's a great thing to be able to do.
.999It's a great hack so that.
That you're brave.
Will not actually bend to the will of the person talking to you.
Cause especially if it's somebody you respect, especially if it's a winemaker like they'll tell you, it smells like broccoli and Parmesan cheese and you're like, Oh, it does.
(25:34):
You can easily fall into that trap.
However, having wine side by side, you're like notice you it's a great way to actually also build up your palate and start recognizing flavors and smells.
Outside of what they're just telling you.
I like it.
Yes.
What do you want? That was getting a little stiff.
(25:54):
Oh no.
I think wine would help.
Fine.
Fine.
There you go.
Just some burgundy today. 383 00:26:04,635.999 --> 00:26:05,425.999 Burgundy.
All right. 385 00:26:07,375.999 --> 00:26:08,596 We've already told them what it was.
So I guess I'm just going to hand this glass to you.
That's one glass.
I'm going to take another glass myself.
(26:16):
And Yeah.
I'm all up for this.
All right.
Burgundy, and specifically, Premier Cru Burgundy, and bone of all wonderful places. 393 00:26:33,980.999 --> 00:26:37,401 This is a this is special, and this is a rare occasion.
(26:37):
This is the kind of wine you buy, you drink, when you want to truly enjoy life.
It's, this is not.
It is a treat.
Yes. 398 00:26:49,571.1 --> 00:26:49,746 Okay.
Okay.
So I'm gonna swirl this puppy a little bit first.
I want to stick my nose in it.
All right.
So have you given it? All right, you stuck your nose in there.
(26:58):
I have.
.999All right.
Oh We definitely made sure we decanted this for about an hour ahead of time.
Gently. 408 00:27:08,225.999 --> 00:27:08,835.999 Gently. 409 00:27:08,835.999 --> 00:27:09,55.999 Yeah.
Gently.
Yeah. 412 00:27:10,216.001 --> 00:27:14,736 Now How would you describe that nose? Violets.
Violets.
Yeah.
Now, Pinot Noir, which is what burgundy is it has its vital fingerprint.
(27:24):
It's something we teach in training for the soirees.
All the time.
Barnyard roses on, for aromatics, light bodied, low tannins, high acid.
.999This is what Pinot Noir is, the framework, what this burgundy does, it fills it out in a way that it turns those floral notes, those roses into, oh my God, exotic violet.
(27:47):
But there's also yeah, there's a little lilac in there too red flowers, not white flowers this time.
Beautiful.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
This is.
It's.
It's getting more, I'm getting like fennel and some spicy notes.
Yes.
And the barnyard, okay, let's talk barnyard right now.
(28:09):
We, that's a euphemism for barnyard funk.
Ooh.
There's always that barnyard note in Pino.
It's part of the whole perfume component of it.
It's the thing that's underlying everything.
It's the weird thing that.
(28:31):
Ugly thing that makes everything beautiful like perfume.
There's always this oud note in perfume The thing that's really funky and earthy and like sometimes like sweaty But then you wrap it around with all that wonderful floral notes.
Now, this is doing that it's doing it In such a complex way.
This makes most Pino smell like department store or like CVS perfume.
(28:55):
And this is like the most beautiful expensive.
.999And I don't know what's the most expensive perfume these days. 441 00:29:04,350.999 --> 00:29:05,250.999 I have no idea.
Byredo is pretty incredible.
Oh.
You've never heard of it.
No.
I have no idea what that is.
That could be an island off the Greek coast, as far as I know.
(29:16):
But it is.
If you love perfume, you'll love Pinot.
Yeah.
.2357143So we have this and the barnyard though, isn't barnyard it's more there's a, there's not rustic, but it's earth and it's wet loamy earth underneath you, you like you are in a, it's like being in a garden where you have all those wonderful floral notes as you walk through your, as you're walking past, you're rustling through Those sets, but also as you're walking, you're lifting up some of that very much that humus like nose, mossy leaves. 452 00:29:48,833.2357143 --> 00:29:50,193.9142857 It is it's forest floor. 453 00:29:50,193.9142857 --> 00:29:51,10.3214286 Like it is. 454 00:29:51,10.3214286 --> 00:29:51,282.4571429 Yeah. 455 00:29:51,282.4571429 --> 00:29:51,554.5928571 Yeah. 456 00:29:51,554.5928571 --> 00:29:51,826.7285714 Yeah. 457 00:29:51,826.7285714 --> 00:29:57,311 Can you take a sip? No, no sip for you.
(29:59):
.999Oh boy. 459 00:30:00,130.999 --> 00:30:01,270.999 I'm in trouble.
.999Oh, okay. 461 00:30:07,70.999 --> 00:30:07,491 All right.
Okay.
That this.
So the thing that is so magic about those is that the attack, I know that Burgundy and Pinot Jaune, it's going to be light.
(30:22):
It's going to be ethereal.
.999You may have to pay attention to it more so than you would most wines. 467 00:30:28,131.099 --> 00:30:28,991 All right.
.999This is not Zinfandel. 469 00:30:31,340.999 --> 00:30:32,461 Zinfandel is going to hit you in the face.
Pay attention to me.
I love you.
Zin is like the like the black lab.
That's what I was just thinking.
Yeah.
Why? Yes.
Yeah.
And this is like the baji for dog.
(30:45):
If we're gonna the keep that line like it's a jaw.
It's kind like you have to focus, it's there.
It's rare, it's unique and and you really gotta drill down.
It's quiet.
It's, but it's got this wonderful sinuous, beautiful soulful.
But you have to focus on it.
It's not the other way around.
(31:05):
It's not going to come at you.
Yeah.
It's more, almost like a cat like in that regards.
Yeah.
But here, it actually catches my attention right away.
And that's a little bit of the magic of Bone and premiere crew from Bone is that it, it captures so the fruit comes right out, right up front and it does this thing.
And it's, I forget the name of this fruit, it's the most pretentious fruit.
(31:28):
It starts off like really rich, dark fruit, and then it turns to like high, like cranberry, but there's a fruit that does that.
I don't remember the name of it.
It's got all the seeds.
It's not so pretentious.
It's pomegranate.
Okay.
.999It's not pretentious.
It is second only to quinces, the most pretentious fruit.
Did I tell you that I this is back in the eighties when I was a sous chef.
(31:56):
A vendor sent us pomegranates and my chef said, do something with that.
We didn't know what they were.
Okay.
And I opened it up and I was like, it's just nothing but seeds.
Like I have no idea. 506 00:32:05,965.999 --> 00:32:08,356 So I tried to juice it, but I don't know.
I was, Marcia was so angry with me that I, it took me like an hour and I got like maybe a quarter cup of, so we made a beurre blanc out of it and oh my God, oh, I was not.
(32:23):
Yeah, that was, yeah, not my best day.
Sorry to hear that.
However, I, I.
It is it's a beautiful complex for note on a PAL.
Oh.
Yeah.
And then it leads from there and goes there and then, yeah, then it rising, you can, the high acidity starts to be really evident soon as it goes from that dark fruit to cranberry fruit, which is what pomegranates do.
(32:44):
They do that wonderful thing where it's all just dark fruit and then turns really crisp and bright as soon as the acid hits your palate.
.999And then it moves on.
So it has wrapped around with just the barest amount of tannins.
There's a filigree of tannins. 519 00:32:59,410.999 --> 00:33:00,381 That's lovely. 520 00:33:00,990.999 --> 00:33:02,221 It is a little young.
What we're going to have is a little young.
I think.
(33:06):
I don't even know what, oh yeah, this is only this puppy is only a couple of years old.
.999I would like to have at least five years to six years on my burgundy so that the thing that, and it's lovely, but it's like steep tea.
It's like almost like a white tea note that where the tannins are rising up, drying out the mid palette to the finish, which does happen if it's rather young it's delicious, delightful, but I know it's going to get better with age because of that.
(33:34):
And that.
Makes me sad that we're drinking it now, but I'm also happy we're drinking it now.
So I'm very conflicted about this because I'm happy sad, which is Oh, I'm sure everyone right now is like, Oh, yeah, exactly. 529 00:33:47,75.999 --> 00:33:47,265.999 Exactly.
Oh, he's drinking premier crew burgundy and talking smack.
Yeah. 532 00:33:53,295.999 --> 00:33:53,496 Oh yeah.
.899Oh yeah. 534 00:33:55,135.999 --> 00:33:55,565.999 I know. 535 00:33:55,615.999 --> 00:33:57,385.999 I'm going to have to get a tear tattoo.
(33:59):
I think it's, this has been great.
This has been fantastic. 538 00:34:01,981.1 --> 00:34:02,810.9 I think it was fun.
I really want to talk more about this, but I think I guess I'm just going to drink it now.
I think it's time to wrap up.
All right then.
.999Hey folks, have a great day, enjoy, drink good wines.
Subscribe, tell your friends about this.
If people, maybe a little too snooty about wine, maybe a little too pretentious, they want to be you want to knock them down a few pegs.
(34:24):
Allow them another voice that you don't have to be, you can know a lot about wine, but not be pretentious about it. 546 00:34:31,885.999 --> 00:34:32,966 Own your mistakes.
I've made a lot of mistakes in tasting rooms as a consumer.
Hopefully you learned a few things of what to do and how to get better.
Attention, more attention, having a better time in a tasting room.
I hope they've learned something.
(34:45):
I hope they they enjoy this.
Subscribe, come back for the next one.
Hopefully see you soon.
Cheers.
Thanks for spending time with us on After Wine School.
.999If you enjoyed today's episode, hit subscribe so you never miss out on more wine wisdom, tips, and laughs.
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