April 8, 2025 • 26 mins
In this episode of After Wine School, hosts Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe discuss the declining presence of wine books and the need for updated, accessible wine education. They share personal experiences, including Keith's decision to write a food and wine pairing book instead of a traditional wine book, and the challenges of keeping wine information current due to rapidly changing details. The episode highlights the importance of electronic resources and honest, jargon-free approaches to wine education. They also taste and review a Syrah from Côte de Roussillon. Throughout the discussion, Keith and Alana emphasize the need for honest, engaging content in the wine world and invite listeners to join the conversation and share their thoughts.
00:00 Introduction to After Wine School
00:53 The Decline of Wine Books
01:54 Personal Story: Writing a Wine Book
03:29 Challenges with Wine Books
04:48 The Evolution of Wine Information
11:26 The Future of Wine Writing
20:55 Tasting Syrah
25:32 Conclusion and Farewell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to After Wine School, the podcast that demystifies wine and makes it approachable for everyone.
Join Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe, two of the nation's leading wine experts, as they uncork everything you need to know about wine, from picking the right bottle to mastering unforgettable food and wine pairings.
This isn't about stuffy lectures or confusing jargon.
(00:26):
It's about enjoying wine the way it's meant to be.
So grab a glass And let's dive in.
Don't forget to subscribe to After Wine School today.
.9995All right. 8 00:00:41,885.9995 --> 00:00:42,746 Here we go.
Here we go.
.999Welcome to After School, The Wine Podcast.
(00:53):
Let's talk about, like, there are no more wine books in the world.
.999Like, I was in the bookstore a couple of days ago and there was no wine books.
Okay.
.999That's what we're talking about.
right. 16 00:01:00,515.999 --> 00:01:01,486 Then we're going to talk about that.
All right.
Fantastic.
And we are going to be trying a wine at the end of our little lecture or talk today.
That wine is Domaine de Bia Haute.
That's a Michael Chaputier wine.
(01:13):
the wine is La Squerda from Côte de Roussillon Village.
This is awesome.
And I am Alana Zerbe.
This is Kief Wallace, and we are sponsored by the National Wine School. 26 00:01:27,735.999 --> 00:01:38,396 And all of the opinions and viewpoints that we express are completely our own and do not reflect the opinions, viewpoints, or anything else of the National Wine School or any affiliates.
(01:38):
Let's go.
All right.
So maybe the opinions won't even be mine.
Probably won't be yours.
It'll disavow me by the end.
I'm sure.
Oh my God.
.999All right.
Okay.
.999So we're going to talk about wine books. 37 00:01:53,90.998 --> 00:01:56,420.997 Well, first off, well, I think, yeah, your personal story. 38 00:01:56,450.998 --> 00:01:56,860.997 Oh yeah. 39 00:01:56,860.997 --> 00:01:58,90.997 That's actually a great place to start. 40 00:01:58,91.097 --> 00:02:09,840.9985 Cause about a decade ago I was approached to write a wine book and it was awesome because the publisher is well known and, local and I knew their lead designer. 41 00:02:09,840.9985 --> 00:02:12,180.9975 he's like, Hey, we want you to write a wine book. 42 00:02:12,940.9975 --> 00:02:17,200.9975 And I thought about it and I said, no, I won't do it. 43 00:02:17,640.9985 --> 00:02:23,710.9975 So I'll write a cookbook because they gave me an inside peek of like, you know, what. 44 00:02:24,725.9985 --> 00:02:32,135.9985 You like a baseline, how much you can make, how many gets sold, what, you know, what's the likelihood of it actually hitting like a bestseller list. 45 00:02:32,135.9985 --> 00:02:42,325.9985 And I said, no, because cookbooks like, and I did a food and wine pairing book corked and fork it, it hit the bestseller list. 46 00:02:42,715.9995 --> 00:02:44,475.949 You know, I made a decent amount of money on it. 47 00:02:44,475.949 --> 00:02:45,825.9995 It was awesome on Amazon. 48 00:02:45,975.9985 --> 00:02:46,385.9985 Yes. 49 00:02:46,435.9995 --> 00:02:46,965.9995 On Amazon. 50 00:02:47,65.9995 --> 00:02:47,235.9995 Yes. 51 00:02:47,475.9995 --> 00:02:47,855.9995 Yes. 52 00:02:48,175.9995 --> 00:02:48,845.9995 On Amazon. 53 00:02:48,895.9995 --> 00:02:53,315.9995 Look, that's good enough for me, you know, time out. 54 00:02:53,515.9995 --> 00:02:54,455.9995 It was awesome. 55 00:02:54,710.9995 --> 00:03:01,550.9985 Yeah, we did really well and I mean, I do still think that at least 5, 000 of those books sold were bought by my mom. 56 00:03:02,0.9995 --> 00:03:03,400.9995 I'm pretty sure. 57 00:03:03,640.9995 --> 00:03:11,440.9995 But that said, you just don't make money on wine books, right? And also just what it's expected from wine books. 58 00:03:11,520.9995 --> 00:03:13,90.9985 It just has to be kind of boring. 59 00:03:13,90.9985 --> 00:03:13,970.9985 They're kind of dull. 60 00:03:13,970.9985 --> 00:03:15,250.9995 I didn't want to write that kind of book. 61 00:03:15,260.9985 --> 00:03:16,680.9995 I want to write something more exciting. 62 00:03:17,50.9985 --> 00:03:21,80.9985 Not necessarily opinion based, but I want to write something a little bit more people would enjoy. 63 00:03:21,590.9985 --> 00:03:23,710.9985 And that's what I got, you know, in a food and wine pairing book. 64 00:03:23,740.9985 --> 00:03:24,590.9985 That was fantastic. 65 00:03:24,590.9985 --> 00:03:25,920.9985 I loved writing that book. 66 00:03:26,190.9985 --> 00:03:29,180.9985 But I also brought in spirits and beer, so I could do a lot of different things. 67 00:03:29,350.9985 --> 00:03:30,530.9985 There are no mind books. 68 00:03:30,810.9985 --> 00:03:32,970.9985 Have you noticed that? Well, right. 69 00:03:32,980.9985 --> 00:03:33,210.9985 So. 70 00:03:33,875.9985 --> 00:03:43,25.9985 I knew you back then, and, you know, something I would do is check out, number one, I would go to a bookstore, which, you know, God bless places that still have bookstores. 71 00:03:43,525.9985 --> 00:03:51,85.9975 And at the time, the wine shelf, the wine books was maybe one and a half, good sized shelves. 72 00:03:51,375.9985 --> 00:03:51,645.9985 Okay. 73 00:03:51,755.9985 --> 00:03:52,735.9985 Just wine. 74 00:03:52,990.9995 --> 00:03:55,135.9995 So you'd have a whole shelf of wine books. 75 00:03:55,335.9995 --> 00:03:55,655.9995 Definitely. 76 00:03:55,665.9995 --> 00:03:55,955.9995 Okay. 77 00:03:55,955.9995 --> 00:03:56,85.9995 Yeah. 78 00:03:56,85.9995 --> 00:03:56,585.9995 Oh, good. 79 00:03:56,855.9995 --> 00:03:56,895.9995 Okay. 80 00:03:56,895.9995 --> 00:04:01,205.9995 Yeah, You know, a purveyor that has a wider array of topics. 81 00:04:01,255.9995 --> 00:04:01,615.9995 Yeah. 82 00:04:01,666.0995 --> 00:04:06,636.0995 And over the years, it has gotten smaller and smaller. 83 00:04:06,716.0995 --> 00:04:12,566.0995 I think the last time I was in a bookstore and checked, there were maybe three or four. 84 00:04:12,746.0985 --> 00:04:13,266.0995 Oh, wow. 85 00:04:13,276.0995 --> 00:04:15,56.1 was shocking. 86 00:04:16,316.1 --> 00:04:16,946.1 It is. 87 00:04:16,996.099 --> 00:04:17,456.1 It is. 88 00:04:17,516.1 --> 00:04:24,336.1 I mean, it just tells you, like, because even back then, one of the things I did too, was when I was thinking about it, I went to a bookstore near the Wine School of Philadelphia. 89 00:04:24,416.1 --> 00:04:26,786.1 And sadly, now it's a restaurant. 90 00:04:26,786.1 --> 00:04:28,326.1 It's a great restaurant, but now it's a restaurant. 91 00:04:28,616.1 --> 00:04:32,926.1 Like, they had not just a shelf, but the entire, you know, section of cookbooks. 92 00:04:33,436.1 --> 00:04:35,846.1 And then all other kinds of books about food. 93 00:04:35,916.1 --> 00:04:38,166.099 And, yeah. 94 00:04:38,546.1 --> 00:04:40,876.1 But now, I know, it's shrunk, and it's shrunk, and it's shrunk. 95 00:04:43,196.1 --> 00:04:56,831.099 You know, so the question is, why? I mean, is it people don't want them? Or what's going on? Well, so we ask our students before I teach the level three class to not refer to any books. 96 00:04:56,831.1 --> 00:05:07,861.1 Basically, there are two that I say, you know, are kind of the reference books that are just touchstones, you know, and obviously that would be World Atlas and the Oxford Companion. 97 00:05:07,871.1 --> 00:05:08,341.1 Yes. 98 00:05:08,371.1 --> 00:05:09,281.1 them to not look. 99 00:05:09,321.1 --> 00:05:13,151.1 One of the problems is that information changes so much. 100 00:05:13,571.1 --> 00:05:26,701.1 And so a lot of the information, by the time it goes to print, is outdated, or at least there's something in there that needs an update and can really lead people astray. 101 00:05:26,881.1 --> 00:05:34,191.1 So if you're a serious blind student, You do ask that you back away from those marketers. 102 00:05:34,241.1 --> 00:05:46,781.1 And we talk about them as consumer oriented books that are made for the general public and that oftentimes you don't get a truly insider viewpoint in something that's marketed to the general public. 103 00:05:46,841.099 --> 00:05:47,71.099 Yeah. 104 00:05:47,71.199 --> 00:05:47,388.64925 True. 105 00:05:47,388.64925 --> 00:05:53,91.1 I mean, that, it's just a problem with the vehicle for information itself. 106 00:05:53,121.1 --> 00:05:53,621.1 Yeah. 107 00:05:53,651.1 --> 00:06:06,211.198 Because, well, one of the things we did, first off, when we were talking with the national wine school, because we were actually developing, this is a number of years, quite a few years ago now developing online protocols for education in the wine trade. 108 00:06:06,621.199 --> 00:06:11,241.198 And we were talking about, there was a whole discussion about what books we should have. 109 00:06:11,831.199 --> 00:06:14,601.199 And I came up firmly with like, there's no books because. 110 00:06:14,961.199 --> 00:06:20,821.199 The publishing cost was so high and you would have to be able to update every year. 111 00:06:21,431.199 --> 00:06:24,441.199 And even then you're still going to have problems. 112 00:06:24,731.199 --> 00:06:29,921.199 so everything had to be electronic so that things could be updated when new rules came in. 113 00:06:30,321.198 --> 00:06:41,741.199 Because the truth is, is that even like the big ones, right? The really famous books, even the ones that everyone uses in the industry, they're outdated and they can be outdated largely because we have a new science. 114 00:06:42,331.198 --> 00:06:51,571.198 It could be that we all of a sudden discover, like, you know, that, you know, the background of what Cabernet Franc is, like what Cabernet Franc is and its background has changed multiple times. 115 00:06:51,971.198 --> 00:07:02,811.198 Graves Infidel, that too, but also regions change, laws change, laws change all the time about what is an Appalachian, what isn't an Appalachian they. 116 00:07:03,211.198 --> 00:07:04,241.198 Oh, that changes. 117 00:07:04,291.198 --> 00:07:05,791.198 Even stories change. 118 00:07:06,121.198 --> 00:07:14,281.198 So, one of my favorite stories to tell when my students do this is the story of Phylloxera because this is something that is so important to wine history. 119 00:07:14,351.198 --> 00:07:18,911.198 It's a fundamental shift that happened in every wine region. 120 00:07:18,921.198 --> 00:07:21,601.197 There's a before and an after with Phylloxera. 121 00:07:21,701.198 --> 00:07:22,81.198 Right. 122 00:07:22,191.198 --> 00:07:46,271.198 And when I started studying wine, it was the sort of decided belief and I do have a book on the Phylloxera epidemic and it mentioned that this the way that Phylloxera arrived in southern France was likely because of botanists sharing specimen plants, which was very very popular during the Victorian era. 123 00:07:46,841.198 --> 00:08:01,676.1975 In fact now it seems to be accepted widely that There was in fact a Rhone winemaker who did want to plant Native American vines in the soils in the valley, which is hard to wrap my head around. 124 00:08:01,676.1975 --> 00:08:06,936.198 But so I've had to make that adjustment in my storytelling and I've, I did the research. 125 00:08:06,956.197 --> 00:08:12,566.198 I tried to verify it as much as I could, and I did see it being talked about in a number. 126 00:08:13,61.198 --> 00:08:15,221.198 Of reputable resources. 127 00:08:15,221.198 --> 00:08:21,91.198 So now that's how I tell the story, but even so things that seem fundamental and like, it's not going to shift. 128 00:08:21,91.198 --> 00:08:25,441.198 It's a story from over a hundred years ago, it still can change. 129 00:08:25,481.198 --> 00:08:25,751.198 Yeah. 130 00:08:25,791.198 --> 00:08:27,311.198 Our understanding of history changes. 131 00:08:27,311.198 --> 00:08:35,731.198 We get more, more documentation, but also like science changes, like behind us right now, you know, is, what we put on our. 132 00:08:36,11.198 --> 00:08:50,481.1955 Set here those of you who are watching this, There's a bunch of books back there out of focus intentionally because they're all out of date Some of them are actually books from UC Davis from my first year and a half Studying and yeah, it's they're outdated. 133 00:08:50,511.1965 --> 00:09:30,656.297 Even the science gets outdated stories Evolve our understanding of the past evolves and moving forward to and because climate change is not just, it's not just climate change, you know, on a macro level, but also the micro level, you have variations, So what the style of wines we're making, like if you're talking about Willamette Valley, for instance, the Pinot Noirs that they were producing 20 years ago, completely different what they are today, they used to be much more variety correct, much more, and currently, like you're saying in the beginning of the 21st century there would be, Bigger and more unctuous. 134 00:09:30,656.297 --> 00:09:35,126.297 And partly that's because the climate is changing there, but also preferences are changing. 135 00:09:35,476.297 --> 00:09:39,286.297 and I guarantee in 10 years from now, that's going to be different too. 136 00:09:39,466.297 --> 00:09:42,716.297 and that means that when we're, we have to update everything. 137 00:09:42,716.297 --> 00:09:48,806.297 So when we're teaching the advanced program, I actually have to point out so many times, when. 138 00:09:49,156.297 --> 00:09:49,966.297 Books are wrong. 139 00:09:49,976.297 --> 00:09:58,836.296 Like some of the most respected books because they're out of date or there's really incorrect information and they haven't actually changed it over multiple different additions. 140 00:09:58,986.297 --> 00:10:02,56.296 And you see the same problems over and over again. 141 00:10:02,646.297 --> 00:10:08,646.397 And so that's also, you know, even teaching wine, you can't trust the books. 142 00:10:08,956.397 --> 00:10:09,616.397 I trust. 143 00:10:09,976.397 --> 00:10:10,536.397 I go to. 144 00:10:10,921.397 --> 00:10:13,251.397 Google Scholar or whatever scholarship I do that. 145 00:10:13,251.397 --> 00:10:14,871.397 That's where all my research comes from. 146 00:10:14,871.397 --> 00:10:16,286.397 read academic papers? all of 'em. 147 00:10:16,331.397 --> 00:10:18,971.397 I have extensive Google alerts. 148 00:10:19,21.397 --> 00:10:22,491.397 and just on any wine topic under the sun. 149 00:10:22,521.397 --> 00:10:25,711.397 I read through, Almost daily. 150 00:10:25,751.397 --> 00:10:32,561.397 Google alerts and that is honestly how I stay on top of what developments are happening in the wine world. 151 00:10:32,591.397 --> 00:10:35,861.397 So you go to academic papers? Yes, I'm doing Google alerts. 152 00:10:35,996.397 --> 00:10:37,566.397 We're not buying books. 153 00:10:37,616.397 --> 00:10:39,286.397 So that's a danger. 154 00:10:39,306.397 --> 00:10:40,566.397 And it's, it's heartbreaking. 155 00:10:40,566.497 --> 00:10:40,818.24994118 Yeah. 156 00:10:40,818.24994118 --> 00:10:42,77.01464706 None of our students are. 157 00:10:42,77.01464706 --> 00:10:43,587.53229412 Cause we offer everything electronically now. 158 00:10:43,587.53229412 --> 00:10:45,966.396 Everything has to be electronic so that it can be updated. 159 00:10:46,386.396 --> 00:10:47,106.396 So they have access. 160 00:10:47,106.397 --> 00:10:48,596.397 Cause it does, it changes. 161 00:10:48,876.396 --> 00:10:52,196.396 I've had things change within a month of me teaching a class. 162 00:10:52,476.397 --> 00:10:55,476.397 And so I'm like, Oh, I have to change how I'm talking. 163 00:10:55,556.397 --> 00:10:56,436.397 We had. 164 00:10:56,756.397 --> 00:11:09,916.396 Book sent to us from UC Davis publishers that I reviewed and again, it's a beloved book and I enjoy it as well, but I found two mistakes and they had already gone to print. 165 00:11:09,916.496 --> 00:11:11,236.43066667 So, And that's funny. 166 00:11:11,236.53066667 --> 00:11:11,896.43066667 It just happens. 167 00:11:11,896.43066667 --> 00:11:12,446.43066667 Yeah. 168 00:11:12,526.43066667 --> 00:11:17,236.43066667 And one of the reasons why actually that press no longer sends those books is we found so many errors. 169 00:11:17,456.43066667 --> 00:11:17,916.43066667 Well, you. 170 00:11:17,976.43066667 --> 00:11:18,546.43066667 I sent one back. 171 00:11:18,956.42966667 --> 00:11:19,556.43066667 You really. 172 00:11:19,566.43066667 --> 00:11:20,436.43066667 this can't go. 173 00:11:20,691.43066667 --> 00:11:22,581.43066667 there's nothing about this that's actually correct. 174 00:11:22,631.43066667 --> 00:11:24,421.43066667 And they said, yeah, that was the last time. 175 00:11:24,711.43066667 --> 00:11:24,951.43066667 So. 176 00:11:25,11.43066667 --> 00:11:26,631.43066667 And this is, this leads into the other thing. 177 00:11:26,641.43066667 --> 00:11:31,521.43066667 Cause it's also cause this specific author that I just slid, it was all. 178 00:11:31,836.43066667 --> 00:11:35,56.43066667 It was, it was supposed to be science, but it was all opinion. 179 00:11:35,66.43066667 --> 00:11:38,326.43066667 Like it was opinion dressed in scientific jargon. 180 00:11:38,746.43066667 --> 00:11:42,466.43066667 And it was, you know, about natural wine, which was a big movement for a while. 181 00:11:42,566.43066667 --> 00:12:01,296.43066667 And that's high After wine school is proudly supported by the National Wine School, the gold standard, and professional wine certifications, whether you're dreaming of a career in the wine industry or just eager to take your wine knowledge to the next level, the National Wine School has you covered. 182 00:12:01,736.43066667 --> 00:12:07,106.43066667 Their programs are trusted, rigorous, and designed for aspiring wine pros like you. 183 00:12:09,526.43066667 --> 00:12:14,206.43066667 Visit Wine School us to learn more and start your journey today. 184 00:12:15,776.43066667 --> 00:12:16,536.43066667 and mighty. 185 00:12:16,966.43066667 --> 00:12:17,996.43066667 Exactly. 186 00:12:18,16.43066667 --> 00:12:21,336.42966667 No, no, that, that now they can narrow it down to 20 different books. 187 00:12:24,246.42966667 --> 00:12:25,96.43066667 But thank you. 188 00:12:25,326.43066667 --> 00:12:26,276.43066667 Thank you for coming up right there. 189 00:12:26,646.43066667 --> 00:12:27,516.43066667 But here's the other thing. 190 00:12:27,916.43066667 --> 00:12:30,546.43066667 Outdated information so people like us don't use them. 191 00:12:30,566.43066667 --> 00:12:30,826.43066667 Yeah. 192 00:12:31,126.43066667 --> 00:13:04,466.43016667 But I think the other real problem is, is that the attitude, like how they're written, who they're for, like, I don't know, and let me know in the, you know, let anyone let me know out there in the world, you know, are there any really like snooty wine people anymore? Like, I know there are, but they're kind of like dying off and their whole nose in the air like me, me, me, when the last time I was in Burgundy, me, me, me, and that whole attitude, that is a Bygone era but they still write like that. 193 00:13:04,476.43016667 --> 00:13:24,166.43016667 Like everything is written like we are all just, you know they dropped us off from our private jet and We get off and our feet never land the ground and they carry us around yeah, we're carrying around, or with the thing, where's that thing that they used to carry the royalty on? know, I know, I don't know what that is, but I like the idea of a rickshaw better, you know, because it seems so trashy and fun. 194 00:13:25,766.43016667 --> 00:13:31,506.43016667 Okay, so this is it, like, I mean, who is it, I mean, they pretend, and here's the thing, I know these writers. 195 00:13:31,936.43016667 --> 00:13:43,586.43016667 Some of them I've known professionally, some of them have been students of mine and all of them are dirt poor, like they're not rich, they're not wealthy, yet they run. 196 00:13:43,706.43016667 --> 00:13:45,306.42916667 Not from, not from the books. 197 00:13:45,326.43016667 --> 00:13:47,266.43016667 Not from the books, Let's not make that statement. 198 00:13:47,386.43016667 --> 00:13:47,786.43016667 alright. 199 00:13:47,806.43016667 --> 00:13:48,726.43016667 But not from the books. 200 00:13:48,796.42916667 --> 00:13:50,296.42916667 I'm thinking of a few people I know. 201 00:13:50,576.42916667 --> 00:13:50,816.42916667 know. 202 00:13:51,26.43016667 --> 00:13:52,711.43016667 So, Yeah. 203 00:13:52,711.53016667 --> 00:13:53,321.53016667 All right. 204 00:13:53,501.53016667 --> 00:13:55,151.53016667 It's a little bit harder to talk about. 205 00:13:55,221.53016667 --> 00:13:55,591.53016667 I know. 206 00:13:55,941.53016667 --> 00:14:06,221.53016667 It's funny because, yeah, and thanks for keeping me on track, not to actually like, you know, ruin anyone's reputation or, you know, but the problem, right, is that it's all. 207 00:14:06,536.53016667 --> 00:14:06,966.53016667 A myth. 208 00:14:06,976.53016667 --> 00:14:07,746.53016667 It's all a game. 209 00:14:07,746.53016667 --> 00:14:16,576.53016667 It's all like, let's pretend that we're still like, you know, the elite of the 19th century and pretend that we are royalty. 210 00:14:16,586.53016667 --> 00:14:18,156.53016667 And that's how we write about it. 211 00:14:19,416.53016667 --> 00:14:20,386.53016667 I find it offensive. 212 00:14:20,616.53016667 --> 00:14:25,136.53016667 there are others who are talking more, you know, to just an. 213 00:14:27,106.53016667 --> 00:14:34,126.53016667 And those books are great, but how many of those are you going to try and pretty much cover the same information? Yeah. 214 00:14:34,956.53016667 --> 00:14:39,376.53016667 And then what I find is that when some of them, it's less now, but it used to be a lot. 215 00:14:39,416.52916667 --> 00:15:09,951.53016667 And I think this was one of the things that especially, like, I'm not saying anything that's currently published, let's say that, but things previously published like 10 years ago or further earlier was that they were, Cause there's so little money in it and publishing wine books that they had undisclosed benefactors, oftentimes a company or Importer distributors even, you know, even like the wine regions would fund some parts of the books and this happened a lot. 216 00:15:10,181.53016667 --> 00:15:16,621.52916667 And so it was very biased and, you know, you could really have somebody just write wonderful things that don't mean anything. 217 00:15:16,631.52916667 --> 00:15:27,886.53016667 And I think that is also, and that's a real problem, you know, because how is it being funded and why? Now, yeah, it's the same reason why I wasn't going to write a wine book. 218 00:15:27,946.53016667 --> 00:15:32,776.53016667 I found the element of wine writing, both snooty, but also compromised. 219 00:15:32,986.53016667 --> 00:15:36,996.53016667 And you know, you know, there's people don't know this, but I, you know, I background in journalism. 220 00:15:37,6.53016667 --> 00:15:42,96.53016667 So I am a little bit of a hard ass when it comes to honesty in publishing. 221 00:15:42,426.53016667 --> 00:15:43,496.53016667 It has to be true. 222 00:15:43,916.53016667 --> 00:15:46,466.53016667 If you claim it's true, you have to, you're best. 223 00:15:46,631.53016667 --> 00:15:51,641.53016667 Case, and you can't accept money from somebody who you're writing about. 224 00:15:51,651.53016667 --> 00:15:54,471.53016667 Like that is obviously a no go. 225 00:15:54,921.53016667 --> 00:15:56,561.53116667 If you want to expect people to trust you. 226 00:15:57,261.53116667 --> 00:15:57,571.53116667 Yeah. 227 00:15:57,571.53116667 --> 00:16:01,361.53016667 Like, that's why we don't, I mean, I don't take money from anybody. 228 00:16:01,741.53116667 --> 00:16:05,181.53116667 not that anyone's offering me any money with my reputation. 229 00:16:05,451.53116667 --> 00:16:07,31.53116667 What would you say, so two questions. 230 00:16:07,81.53116667 --> 00:16:10,871.53116667 If you are looking to learn more about wine. 231 00:16:10,921.53116667 --> 00:16:17,471.53216667 What is your recommendation? What resources, how would you go about that? Okay, see, because, okay, I am, here's, I'm highly biased. 232 00:16:17,511.53216667 --> 00:16:26,406.43216667 Now, let me just straight out this is, Because this was always a problem coming from a winemaker, like, you know, 20 years ago, over 20 years ago now, to doing what I do. 233 00:16:26,406.43216667 --> 00:16:28,746.43216667 The only reason I do it is because I want people to have truth. 234 00:16:29,146.43216667 --> 00:16:31,376.43216667 And, you know, that's why I started our school. 235 00:16:31,406.43116667 --> 00:16:35,496.43116667 That's why, you know, you know, I'm on the board at the National Wine School. 236 00:16:35,496.43216667 --> 00:16:38,36.43216667 Like I, like, I insist on honesty. 237 00:16:38,36.43216667 --> 00:16:40,786.4321667 And so I, you know, it's, it's, so of course. 238 00:16:40,936.4321667 --> 00:16:41,826.4321667 Of course, plug us. 239 00:16:41,876.4321667 --> 00:16:43,76.4321667 course, but that's the truth. 240 00:16:43,776.4321667 --> 00:16:44,586.4321667 that's all I want. 241 00:16:44,596.4321667 --> 00:16:48,146.4321667 I don't need to write another book or write anything else. 242 00:16:48,636.4321667 --> 00:16:50,286.4321667 This is the thing that I believe in. 243 00:16:50,286.4321667 --> 00:16:52,366.4321667 I want people to have honest, and that's why we do this. 244 00:16:52,986.4321667 --> 00:16:55,516.4321667 Just talk about things, be really honest about things. 245 00:16:55,606.4311667 --> 00:16:56,186.4316667 And so, yeah. 246 00:16:56,236.4316667 --> 00:16:59,46.4316667 our classes, I think are the only things that are honest out there. 247 00:16:59,96.4316667 --> 00:17:05,516.4316667 And I think that the national line schools and what they publish, you know, online, I think that's what people need to look at. 248 00:17:05,576.4316667 --> 00:17:06,566.4316667 And that's why I do it. 249 00:17:07,156.4316667 --> 00:17:07,496.4316667 Sorry. 250 00:17:07,506.4316667 --> 00:17:08,176.4316667 Great answer. 251 00:17:09,606.4316667 --> 00:17:09,886.4316667 Okay. 252 00:17:09,996.4316667 --> 00:17:16,716.4316667 And, so what about someone who's a great writer and passionate about wine? Yeah. 253 00:17:16,756.4316667 --> 00:17:19,496.4311667 maybe thinking about, well, I'd like to write a book. 254 00:17:19,666.4321667 --> 00:17:20,116.4321667 Oh. 255 00:17:20,166.4321667 --> 00:17:23,26.4321667 I'd like to express my creativity somehow. 256 00:17:23,136.4321667 --> 00:17:40,616.4321667 How would you recommend that person, if they're interested in wine, would it be, is it, I mean, Is it blogs? Is it Substack? Is it, what would you recommend? A podcast? right now, like where can you monetize good writing? Podcasts are hard. 257 00:17:41,626.4321667 --> 00:17:45,296.4321667 I would say definitely, yeah, Substack, you know, a newsletter. 258 00:17:45,326.4321667 --> 00:17:50,966.4321667 Like I, to this day we have our own newsletter, not on Substack, but yeah, that I think is a really good idea. 259 00:17:51,286.4321667 --> 00:17:52,246.4321667 I also think that. 260 00:17:53,1.4321667 --> 00:17:59,911.4311667 You know, if you want to it's, a hard industry, like for a writer to get into right now, I got to say, that's very hard. 261 00:18:00,211.4321667 --> 00:18:12,731.4306667 So if you're doing it, you know, I would really recommend finding something else that you'll use this as your passion project to build up a reputation and not expect to make money on that part of it. 262 00:18:13,141.4306667 --> 00:18:17,61.4306667 I think that you would have to make, you have to make money doing other things. 263 00:18:17,141.4306667 --> 00:18:29,981.4306667 Wine, you know, giving talks running like classes wherever you are, if they have the education if they build up their knowledge base, you know, opening up a wine school, like these are things that actually are smarter ways and more, you know, honestly, just. 264 00:18:30,451.4306667 --> 00:18:33,11.4306667 Yeah, I just coming from being a writer. 265 00:18:33,61.4306667 --> 00:18:35,681.4306667 I don't know right now if that's a possibility. 266 00:18:35,741.4306667 --> 00:18:39,451.4306667 That's the honest answer Yeah, but I wanted to yeah you to just stay. 267 00:18:39,461.4306667 --> 00:18:40,591.4306667 Yeah people know. 268 00:18:40,591.4306667 --> 00:18:46,21.4306667 Yeah It's not not trying to pull up the gate or the bridge behind us. 269 00:18:46,61.4296667 --> 00:18:48,211.4306667 No or you More accurately. 270 00:18:48,211.4306667 --> 00:18:53,221.4306667 Yeah, but it truly is really a bygone era it is right now. 271 00:18:53,331.4306667 --> 00:18:57,496.4306667 I you know where people are getting their information I mean, it is things like podcasts. 272 00:18:57,786.4306667 --> 00:19:03,286.4306667 You know, we started doing this because realize that everyone's afraid to do a podcast where you can be honest about things. 273 00:19:03,546.4306667 --> 00:19:19,606.4306667 So we wanted to be a little bit of a vanguard to do this and just so that I can just, you know, drop an F bomb and whatever, you know, and then say, it's okay to be, you know, like normal and just be able to talk about it as a passion and a love and do it intelligently, but not, you know, not be snooty about it. 274 00:19:19,936.4306667 --> 00:19:20,986.4301667 Like break this paradigm. 275 00:19:21,36.4301667 --> 00:19:26,936.4301667 Once we break that paradigm especially the old white guy, cause basically we need less old white guys in this to make this more fun. 276 00:19:27,506.4301667 --> 00:19:34,426.4301667 And which is something that I say to people in class, cause it's always some old white guy who's making a problem for everybody else. 277 00:19:34,426.4301667 --> 00:19:37,576.4311667 And I stand up there and like, look, I'm the only old white guy who has to be here. 278 00:19:38,326.4311667 --> 00:19:40,386.4311667 And you know, laughter. 279 00:19:40,496.4311667 --> 00:19:41,786.4301667 And then that guy goes like, oh. 280 00:19:42,336.4311667 --> 00:19:46,756.4311667 which is great, but there is like, we've owned this spot for a long time. 281 00:19:46,756.4311667 --> 00:19:51,96.4311667 There needs to be new blood and there is, it's just a lot and it's coming they're figuring it out. 282 00:19:51,146.4311667 --> 00:19:54,676.4301667 But yeah, it is going to be, I'm not going to know where it's going to come from. 283 00:19:54,686.4311667 --> 00:19:58,266.4301667 I know that, you know, for white education is a great place to be. 284 00:19:58,276.4301667 --> 00:19:58,886.4301667 It's a place that I love. 285 00:19:58,936.5301667 --> 00:20:09,726.5301667 But yeah, but we do, and there are writers and a lot of the people who are writers who started with us, there are, there are plenty of them and who make a living, but they also do, that's only a part of what they do. 286 00:20:10,26.5301667 --> 00:20:16,866.5301667 They use it as a part of the whole and the most successful ones, you know, there's also, there's all other kinds of elements. 287 00:20:16,956.5301667 --> 00:20:21,886.5301667 It's just a part of what they are and that's important to understand that that's, you know, and it's. 288 00:20:22,101.5301667 --> 00:20:23,423.6968333 It's never just about wine. 289 00:20:23,423.6968333 --> 00:20:25,317.0968333 never just wine, right? But you know, here's the thing. 290 00:20:25,407.0968333 --> 00:20:25,717.0968333 Okay. 291 00:20:25,737.0968333 --> 00:20:28,957.0968333 There's going to be somebody out there right now who's going to figure it out. 292 00:20:29,117.0968333 --> 00:20:36,507.0963333 And that is going to be the next, you know, Robert Parker or whomever who nobody knows, by the way, Google that, because no one remembers who that was. 293 00:20:36,507.0963333 --> 00:20:40,307.0968333 And he was like the most important person in wine like 20 years ago. 294 00:20:40,727.0968333 --> 00:20:41,27.0968333 But. 295 00:20:41,642.0968333 --> 00:20:42,862.0968333 Yeah, it's gonna happen. 296 00:20:42,872.0968333 --> 00:20:44,472.0968333 It just we just don't know how it's gonna happen. 297 00:20:44,472.0968333 --> 00:20:45,332.0968333 It's not gonna be me. 298 00:20:45,342.0968333 --> 00:20:53,992.0968333 It's not gonna be you But it's got there's someone out there who is gonna actually and there's gonna be group people who are going to find the way And I'm looking forward to that. 299 00:20:54,762.0968333 --> 00:20:55,282.0968333 I love that. 300 00:20:55,282.0968333 --> 00:20:56,242.0958333 Well, let's drink to that. 301 00:20:56,392.0968333 --> 00:21:31,657.0958333 So he pulled that bottle because I already showed them but so that they see it Oh! She almost dropped the bottle! She pulled it out for the camera, for the folks who are watching this via, you know, a video, and she almost dropped the bottle, and this is, and this, this specific bottle of Chapoutier, what's it called, what's it called again? And this is from the Cote de Roussillon, and unlike most wines from Roussillon, this is mostly Syrah, which is my, yeah, I know now, all right, so. 302 00:21:31,942.0958333 --> 00:21:42,102.0958333 Before we started, you described this in a way, it was the best way I've ever heard Sarad describe, and I'd like you to say it again. 303 00:21:43,162.0958333 --> 00:21:44,222.0958333 I want you to, yeah. 304 00:21:44,282.0958333 --> 00:21:46,932.0958333 Well, we started from a very gross place. 305 00:21:46,972.0958333 --> 00:21:47,462.0958333 Yes. 306 00:21:47,552.0948333 --> 00:21:59,102.0958333 Oh, I was talking about our chill of blood flow, and I'm because I have some, I don't know, I have old students who are trauma surgeons, and whenever they smell Sarad, they're like. 307 00:21:59,457.0958333 --> 00:22:05,297.0958333 Hmm, they started describing surgeries and trauma surgeries and it was gross. 308 00:22:05,467.0958333 --> 00:22:05,957.0958333 It was a lot. 309 00:22:05,977.0958333 --> 00:22:07,277.0958333 It was a lot, So. 310 00:22:07,417.0958333 --> 00:22:08,7.0958333 Yes. 311 00:22:08,127.0958333 --> 00:22:13,167.0958333 First of all, the nose on this, it's so Chapoutier to me. 312 00:22:13,197.0958333 --> 00:22:16,637.0958333 It really does take me back, It just smells like hermitage. 313 00:22:16,637.0968333 --> 00:22:21,587.0968333 It does, So putting aside the arterial blood, it's, it's more of that iron. 314 00:22:21,627.0968333 --> 00:22:22,107.0968333 Yes. 315 00:22:22,197.0968333 --> 00:22:25,97.0968333 But also lots of oak and earthiness. 316 00:22:25,147.0968333 --> 00:22:29,997.0968333 I thought what came to my mind was a butcher block, but a used butcher block. 317 00:22:30,707.0968333 --> 00:22:35,917.0968333 So maybe you had been making hamburgers or breaking down a chicken or something. 318 00:22:35,997.0968333 --> 00:22:36,407.0968333 Yeah. 319 00:22:36,487.0968333 --> 00:22:39,357.0948333 No, it would be definitely, yeah, rabbit or. 320 00:22:39,447.0958333 --> 00:22:39,867.0958333 Rabbit. 321 00:22:39,867.0958333 --> 00:22:40,497.0958333 Thanks, Stinky. 322 00:22:40,847.0958333 --> 00:22:41,337.0958333 Yeah, beef. 323 00:22:41,377.0958333 --> 00:22:42,357.0958333 It's just definitely beef. 324 00:22:42,407.0958333 --> 00:22:50,837.0958333 So what I was thinking, so when you were talking about that, I was thinking, so in my hometown, there was this butcher, or used to, he's not there anymore because he retired, his mom retired. 325 00:22:51,187.0958333 --> 00:22:54,757.0938333 And this is the kind of butcher where they would actually like they would skin your, oh, that guy. 326 00:22:54,767.0948333 --> 00:22:55,357.0948333 Yeah, that guy. 327 00:22:55,407.0948333 --> 00:22:57,537.0948333 his mom, skin the rabbit for you. 328 00:22:57,537.1948333 --> 00:23:28,487.1953333 But his butcher block, because it was so, I don't know how old it was it was just creviced, cause he had butchered so many animals on that, and it had that smell, it was, it had very distinct woodsy note, but it also was just like, it had a very distinct animal quality, gamey quality, you know, which is the fancy way of saying this, the other way of talking about this is actually Slim Jims, Of course, because that's slightly gamey, slightly rancid meat that's preserved meat, when you smell it, you're like. 329 00:23:29,497.1953333 --> 00:23:30,447.1953333 I think I can eat that. 330 00:23:30,467.1953333 --> 00:23:31,727.1953333 It's so much preservative. 331 00:23:31,757.1953333 --> 00:23:32,87.1953333 Yeah. 332 00:23:32,97.1953333 --> 00:23:36,797.1953333 The, they're like, Oh, I think I, I'm not sure I should, but I don't think it's going to kill me. 333 00:23:37,147.1943333 --> 00:23:39,527.1953333 That smell of Syrah, which is my favorite. 334 00:23:40,727.1943333 --> 00:23:41,197.1943333 Yeah. 335 00:23:41,627.1953333 --> 00:23:47,7.1953333 Hey, when I was talking about like what my favorite wines are, this is it. 336 00:23:48,87.1953333 --> 00:23:56,307.1953333 This, but then of course it all has all those dark fruit and a little bit of red fruit and all that oak, which is down cinnamon and all spice in the background. 337 00:23:56,937.1953333 --> 00:23:57,687.1953333 Herbaceousness? Yes. 338 00:23:58,77.1953333 --> 00:24:04,587.1953333 Which did you notice? It's actually like probably coming with a little bit of Grenache in there, but it's coming off as like blue flowers. 339 00:24:04,677.1953333 --> 00:24:08,407.1953333 Mm-hmm And like, and that's really nice. 340 00:24:08,407.1953333 --> 00:24:08,737.1953333 like that. 341 00:24:08,797.1953333 --> 00:24:09,512.1953333 Oh, this is pretty. 342 00:24:10,562.1953333 --> 00:24:11,732.1953333 misophonia warning. 343 00:24:11,842.1953333 --> 00:24:12,832.1953333 Oh, we're gonna taste that. 344 00:24:18,117.1953333 --> 00:24:39,592.1953333 totally get it if blood tasted like this I'd be a vampire too, you know I'm not the biggest sara fan, but no this man's wines my goodness I mean, so yeah, cause a lot of times Sara will get a little too fat, a little too round trying to push the envelope a little bit, but his wines are always balanced. 345 00:24:40,272.1953333 --> 00:24:44,532.1953333 Like there is just enough acidity here, which is also interesting. 346 00:24:44,532.1953333 --> 00:24:45,912.1943333 There's usually more in Roussillon. 347 00:24:45,912.2943333 --> 00:24:54,132.1953333 It's just a little cooler up in the hills where this is harvested, grown versus Languedoc, which is, you know, so this is the Roussillon part of. 348 00:24:54,222.2953333 --> 00:24:58,662.1953333 Languedoc Roussillon, Languedoc, flatter, more Mediterranean. 349 00:24:58,662.1953333 --> 00:25:01,392.1953333 This is actually up in the hills going into the Pyrenees. 350 00:25:01,642.1953333 --> 00:25:09,32.1953333 And if you kept on going, you would end up in Spain, you know, and this is, you know, the Catalan region. 351 00:25:09,62.1953333 --> 00:25:12,502.1943333 And this is the little part of Catalan region that's actually in France. 352 00:25:12,942.1953333 --> 00:25:18,221.2212262 But so up in these hills, up in the Pyrenees mountain range, where you're in the foothills, it's cooler. 353 00:25:18,221.2212262 --> 00:25:19,237.9989048 It's much cooler. 354 00:25:19,237.9989048 --> 00:25:21,610.4801548 Clearly, we use the term diurnal weather. 355 00:25:21,950.4176548 --> 00:25:25,690.4176548 Shifts, where it's cooler at night, retains some acidity, a lot of it. 356 00:25:25,710.4176548 --> 00:25:30,570.4176548 And so you have this freshness along with your voluptuousness and it's just balanced. 357 00:25:30,590.4176548 --> 00:25:31,770.4186548 Yeah, it's beautiful. 358 00:25:32,100.4186548 --> 00:25:32,890.4186548 Oh, oh yeah. 359 00:25:32,970.4176548 --> 00:25:34,940.4186548 Thank you everyone for joining us. 360 00:25:35,10.4186548 --> 00:25:38,350.4186548 They have to go? I don't want them to go, I love this wine. 361 00:25:39,160.4186548 --> 00:25:40,480.4186548 Thanks for joining us. 362 00:25:40,490.4186548 --> 00:25:46,570.4186548 If you would like to reach out, send a comment, a question, feel free, we'd love to hear from you. 363 00:25:46,680.4186548 --> 00:25:47,60.4186548 Oh God. 364 00:25:47,60.4186548 --> 00:25:47,190.4181548 Yeah. 365 00:25:47,190.4181548 --> 00:25:47,320.4176548 Yeah. 366 00:25:47,320.4176548 --> 00:25:48,290.4186548 Questions are great. 367 00:25:49,150.4176548 --> 00:25:54,390.4186548 Look, and if you have anything you want us to talk about, you have any comments, suggestions, but very much look. 368 00:25:54,565.4186548 --> 00:25:56,115.4186548 If you like this, awesome. 369 00:25:56,125.4186548 --> 00:25:59,5.4186548 Give us five stars, say it's the best thing you ever listened to. 370 00:25:59,5.4186548 --> 00:26:02,135.4186548 But even more importantly, let your friends know about it. 371 00:26:02,225.4186548 --> 00:26:03,565.4186548 Get them to download this. 372 00:26:03,565.4186548 --> 00:26:05,515.4186548 Let them to listen to it every week. 373 00:26:05,985.4176548 --> 00:26:07,315.4176548 You know, it's just a labor of love. 374 00:26:07,315.4176548 --> 00:26:08,955.4166548 We're trying to change the world of wine. 375 00:26:08,955.4176548 --> 00:26:10,915.4176548 Just, you know, one F bomb at a time. 376 00:26:18,635.4176548 --> 00:26:19,985.4186548 One F bomb at a time. 377 00:26:26,155.4186548 --> 00:26:29,135.4186548 Thanks for spending time with us on After Wine School. 378 00:26:29,675.4186548 --> 00:26:36,785.4176548 If you enjoyed today's episode, hit subscribe so you never miss out on more wine wisdom, tips, and laughs.
Welcome to After Wine School, the podcast that demystifies wine and makes it approachable for everyone.
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(00:26):
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.9995All right. 8 00:00:41,885.9995 --> 00:00:42,746 Here we go.
Here we go.
.999Welcome to After School, The Wine Podcast.
(00:53):
Let's talk about, like, there are no more wine books in the world.
.999Like, I was in the bookstore a couple of days ago and there was no wine books.
Okay.
.999That's what we're talking about.
right. 16 00:01:00,515.999 --> 00:01:01,486 Then we're going to talk about that.
All right.
Fantastic.
And we are going to be trying a wine at the end of our little lecture or talk today.
That wine is Domaine de Bia Haute.
That's a Michael Chaputier wine.
(01:13):
the wine is La Squerda from Côte de Roussillon Village.
This is awesome.
And I am Alana Zerbe.
This is Kief Wallace, and we are sponsored by the National Wine School. 26 00:01:27,735.999 --> 00:01:38,396 And all of the opinions and viewpoints that we express are completely our own and do not reflect the opinions, viewpoints, or anything else of the National Wine School or any affiliates.
(01:38):
Let's go.
All right.
So maybe the opinions won't even be mine.
Probably won't be yours.
It'll disavow me by the end.
I'm sure.
Oh my God.
.999All right.
Okay.
.999So we're going to talk about wine books. 37 00:01:53,90.998 --> 00:01:56,420.997 Well, first off, well, I think, yeah, your personal story. 38 00:01:56,450.998 --> 00:01:56,860.997 Oh yeah. 39 00:01:56,860.997 --> 00:01:58,90.997 That's actually a great place to start. 40 00:01:58,91.097 --> 00:02:09,840.9985 Cause about a decade ago I was approached to write a wine book and it was awesome because the publisher is well known and, local and I knew their lead designer. 41 00:02:09,840.9985 --> 00:02:12,180.9975 he's like, Hey, we want you to write a wine book. 42 00:02:12,940.9975 --> 00:02:17,200.9975 And I thought about it and I said, no, I won't do it. 43 00:02:17,640.9985 --> 00:02:23,710.9975 So I'll write a cookbook because they gave me an inside peek of like, you know, what. 44 00:02:24,725.9985 --> 00:02:32,135.9985 You like a baseline, how much you can make, how many gets sold, what, you know, what's the likelihood of it actually hitting like a bestseller list. 45 00:02:32,135.9985 --> 00:02:42,325.9985 And I said, no, because cookbooks like, and I did a food and wine pairing book corked and fork it, it hit the bestseller list. 46 00:02:42,715.9995 --> 00:02:44,475.949 You know, I made a decent amount of money on it. 47 00:02:44,475.949 --> 00:02:45,825.9995 It was awesome on Amazon. 48 00:02:45,975.9985 --> 00:02:46,385.9985 Yes. 49 00:02:46,435.9995 --> 00:02:46,965.9995 On Amazon. 50 00:02:47,65.9995 --> 00:02:47,235.9995 Yes. 51 00:02:47,475.9995 --> 00:02:47,855.9995 Yes. 52 00:02:48,175.9995 --> 00:02:48,845.9995 On Amazon. 53 00:02:48,895.9995 --> 00:02:53,315.9995 Look, that's good enough for me, you know, time out. 54 00:02:53,515.9995 --> 00:02:54,455.9995 It was awesome. 55 00:02:54,710.9995 --> 00:03:01,550.9985 Yeah, we did really well and I mean, I do still think that at least 5, 000 of those books sold were bought by my mom. 56 00:03:02,0.9995 --> 00:03:03,400.9995 I'm pretty sure. 57 00:03:03,640.9995 --> 00:03:11,440.9995 But that said, you just don't make money on wine books, right? And also just what it's expected from wine books. 58 00:03:11,520.9995 --> 00:03:13,90.9985 It just has to be kind of boring. 59 00:03:13,90.9985 --> 00:03:13,970.9985 They're kind of dull. 60 00:03:13,970.9985 --> 00:03:15,250.9995 I didn't want to write that kind of book. 61 00:03:15,260.9985 --> 00:03:16,680.9995 I want to write something more exciting. 62 00:03:17,50.9985 --> 00:03:21,80.9985 Not necessarily opinion based, but I want to write something a little bit more people would enjoy. 63 00:03:21,590.9985 --> 00:03:23,710.9985 And that's what I got, you know, in a food and wine pairing book. 64 00:03:23,740.9985 --> 00:03:24,590.9985 That was fantastic. 65 00:03:24,590.9985 --> 00:03:25,920.9985 I loved writing that book. 66 00:03:26,190.9985 --> 00:03:29,180.9985 But I also brought in spirits and beer, so I could do a lot of different things. 67 00:03:29,350.9985 --> 00:03:30,530.9985 There are no mind books. 68 00:03:30,810.9985 --> 00:03:32,970.9985 Have you noticed that? Well, right. 69 00:03:32,980.9985 --> 00:03:33,210.9985 So. 70 00:03:33,875.9985 --> 00:03:43,25.9985 I knew you back then, and, you know, something I would do is check out, number one, I would go to a bookstore, which, you know, God bless places that still have bookstores. 71 00:03:43,525.9985 --> 00:03:51,85.9975 And at the time, the wine shelf, the wine books was maybe one and a half, good sized shelves. 72 00:03:51,375.9985 --> 00:03:51,645.9985 Okay. 73 00:03:51,755.9985 --> 00:03:52,735.9985 Just wine. 74 00:03:52,990.9995 --> 00:03:55,135.9995 So you'd have a whole shelf of wine books. 75 00:03:55,335.9995 --> 00:03:55,655.9995 Definitely. 76 00:03:55,665.9995 --> 00:03:55,955.9995 Okay. 77 00:03:55,955.9995 --> 00:03:56,85.9995 Yeah. 78 00:03:56,85.9995 --> 00:03:56,585.9995 Oh, good. 79 00:03:56,855.9995 --> 00:03:56,895.9995 Okay. 80 00:03:56,895.9995 --> 00:04:01,205.9995 Yeah, You know, a purveyor that has a wider array of topics. 81 00:04:01,255.9995 --> 00:04:01,615.9995 Yeah. 82 00:04:01,666.0995 --> 00:04:06,636.0995 And over the years, it has gotten smaller and smaller. 83 00:04:06,716.0995 --> 00:04:12,566.0995 I think the last time I was in a bookstore and checked, there were maybe three or four. 84 00:04:12,746.0985 --> 00:04:13,266.0995 Oh, wow. 85 00:04:13,276.0995 --> 00:04:15,56.1 was shocking. 86 00:04:16,316.1 --> 00:04:16,946.1 It is. 87 00:04:16,996.099 --> 00:04:17,456.1 It is. 88 00:04:17,516.1 --> 00:04:24,336.1 I mean, it just tells you, like, because even back then, one of the things I did too, was when I was thinking about it, I went to a bookstore near the Wine School of Philadelphia. 89 00:04:24,416.1 --> 00:04:26,786.1 And sadly, now it's a restaurant. 90 00:04:26,786.1 --> 00:04:28,326.1 It's a great restaurant, but now it's a restaurant. 91 00:04:28,616.1 --> 00:04:32,926.1 Like, they had not just a shelf, but the entire, you know, section of cookbooks. 92 00:04:33,436.1 --> 00:04:35,846.1 And then all other kinds of books about food. 93 00:04:35,916.1 --> 00:04:38,166.099 And, yeah. 94 00:04:38,546.1 --> 00:04:40,876.1 But now, I know, it's shrunk, and it's shrunk, and it's shrunk. 95 00:04:43,196.1 --> 00:04:56,831.099 You know, so the question is, why? I mean, is it people don't want them? Or what's going on? Well, so we ask our students before I teach the level three class to not refer to any books. 96 00:04:56,831.1 --> 00:05:07,861.1 Basically, there are two that I say, you know, are kind of the reference books that are just touchstones, you know, and obviously that would be World Atlas and the Oxford Companion. 97 00:05:07,871.1 --> 00:05:08,341.1 Yes. 98 00:05:08,371.1 --> 00:05:09,281.1 them to not look. 99 00:05:09,321.1 --> 00:05:13,151.1 One of the problems is that information changes so much. 100 00:05:13,571.1 --> 00:05:26,701.1 And so a lot of the information, by the time it goes to print, is outdated, or at least there's something in there that needs an update and can really lead people astray. 101 00:05:26,881.1 --> 00:05:34,191.1 So if you're a serious blind student, You do ask that you back away from those marketers. 102 00:05:34,241.1 --> 00:05:46,781.1 And we talk about them as consumer oriented books that are made for the general public and that oftentimes you don't get a truly insider viewpoint in something that's marketed to the general public. 103 00:05:46,841.099 --> 00:05:47,71.099 Yeah. 104 00:05:47,71.199 --> 00:05:47,388.64925 True. 105 00:05:47,388.64925 --> 00:05:53,91.1 I mean, that, it's just a problem with the vehicle for information itself. 106 00:05:53,121.1 --> 00:05:53,621.1 Yeah. 107 00:05:53,651.1 --> 00:06:06,211.198 Because, well, one of the things we did, first off, when we were talking with the national wine school, because we were actually developing, this is a number of years, quite a few years ago now developing online protocols for education in the wine trade. 108 00:06:06,621.199 --> 00:06:11,241.198 And we were talking about, there was a whole discussion about what books we should have. 109 00:06:11,831.199 --> 00:06:14,601.199 And I came up firmly with like, there's no books because. 110 00:06:14,961.199 --> 00:06:20,821.199 The publishing cost was so high and you would have to be able to update every year. 111 00:06:21,431.199 --> 00:06:24,441.199 And even then you're still going to have problems. 112 00:06:24,731.199 --> 00:06:29,921.199 so everything had to be electronic so that things could be updated when new rules came in. 113 00:06:30,321.198 --> 00:06:41,741.199 Because the truth is, is that even like the big ones, right? The really famous books, even the ones that everyone uses in the industry, they're outdated and they can be outdated largely because we have a new science. 114 00:06:42,331.198 --> 00:06:51,571.198 It could be that we all of a sudden discover, like, you know, that, you know, the background of what Cabernet Franc is, like what Cabernet Franc is and its background has changed multiple times. 115 00:06:51,971.198 --> 00:07:02,811.198 Graves Infidel, that too, but also regions change, laws change, laws change all the time about what is an Appalachian, what isn't an Appalachian they. 116 00:07:03,211.198 --> 00:07:04,241.198 Oh, that changes. 117 00:07:04,291.198 --> 00:07:05,791.198 Even stories change. 118 00:07:06,121.198 --> 00:07:14,281.198 So, one of my favorite stories to tell when my students do this is the story of Phylloxera because this is something that is so important to wine history. 119 00:07:14,351.198 --> 00:07:18,911.198 It's a fundamental shift that happened in every wine region. 120 00:07:18,921.198 --> 00:07:21,601.197 There's a before and an after with Phylloxera. 121 00:07:21,701.198 --> 00:07:22,81.198 Right. 122 00:07:22,191.198 --> 00:07:46,271.198 And when I started studying wine, it was the sort of decided belief and I do have a book on the Phylloxera epidemic and it mentioned that this the way that Phylloxera arrived in southern France was likely because of botanists sharing specimen plants, which was very very popular during the Victorian era. 123 00:07:46,841.198 --> 00:08:01,676.1975 In fact now it seems to be accepted widely that There was in fact a Rhone winemaker who did want to plant Native American vines in the soils in the valley, which is hard to wrap my head around. 124 00:08:01,676.1975 --> 00:08:06,936.198 But so I've had to make that adjustment in my storytelling and I've, I did the research. 125 00:08:06,956.197 --> 00:08:12,566.198 I tried to verify it as much as I could, and I did see it being talked about in a number. 126 00:08:13,61.198 --> 00:08:15,221.198 Of reputable resources. 127 00:08:15,221.198 --> 00:08:21,91.198 So now that's how I tell the story, but even so things that seem fundamental and like, it's not going to shift. 128 00:08:21,91.198 --> 00:08:25,441.198 It's a story from over a hundred years ago, it still can change. 129 00:08:25,481.198 --> 00:08:25,751.198 Yeah. 130 00:08:25,791.198 --> 00:08:27,311.198 Our understanding of history changes. 131 00:08:27,311.198 --> 00:08:35,731.198 We get more, more documentation, but also like science changes, like behind us right now, you know, is, what we put on our. 132 00:08:36,11.198 --> 00:08:50,481.1955 Set here those of you who are watching this, There's a bunch of books back there out of focus intentionally because they're all out of date Some of them are actually books from UC Davis from my first year and a half Studying and yeah, it's they're outdated. 133 00:08:50,511.1965 --> 00:09:30,656.297 Even the science gets outdated stories Evolve our understanding of the past evolves and moving forward to and because climate change is not just, it's not just climate change, you know, on a macro level, but also the micro level, you have variations, So what the style of wines we're making, like if you're talking about Willamette Valley, for instance, the Pinot Noirs that they were producing 20 years ago, completely different what they are today, they used to be much more variety correct, much more, and currently, like you're saying in the beginning of the 21st century there would be, Bigger and more unctuous. 134 00:09:30,656.297 --> 00:09:35,126.297 And partly that's because the climate is changing there, but also preferences are changing. 135 00:09:35,476.297 --> 00:09:39,286.297 and I guarantee in 10 years from now, that's going to be different too. 136 00:09:39,466.297 --> 00:09:42,716.297 and that means that when we're, we have to update everything. 137 00:09:42,716.297 --> 00:09:48,806.297 So when we're teaching the advanced program, I actually have to point out so many times, when. 138 00:09:49,156.297 --> 00:09:49,966.297 Books are wrong. 139 00:09:49,976.297 --> 00:09:58,836.296 Like some of the most respected books because they're out of date or there's really incorrect information and they haven't actually changed it over multiple different additions. 140 00:09:58,986.297 --> 00:10:02,56.296 And you see the same problems over and over again. 141 00:10:02,646.297 --> 00:10:08,646.397 And so that's also, you know, even teaching wine, you can't trust the books. 142 00:10:08,956.397 --> 00:10:09,616.397 I trust. 143 00:10:09,976.397 --> 00:10:10,536.397 I go to. 144 00:10:10,921.397 --> 00:10:13,251.397 Google Scholar or whatever scholarship I do that. 145 00:10:13,251.397 --> 00:10:14,871.397 That's where all my research comes from. 146 00:10:14,871.397 --> 00:10:16,286.397 read academic papers? all of 'em. 147 00:10:16,331.397 --> 00:10:18,971.397 I have extensive Google alerts. 148 00:10:19,21.397 --> 00:10:22,491.397 and just on any wine topic under the sun. 149 00:10:22,521.397 --> 00:10:25,711.397 I read through, Almost daily. 150 00:10:25,751.397 --> 00:10:32,561.397 Google alerts and that is honestly how I stay on top of what developments are happening in the wine world. 151 00:10:32,591.397 --> 00:10:35,861.397 So you go to academic papers? Yes, I'm doing Google alerts. 152 00:10:35,996.397 --> 00:10:37,566.397 We're not buying books. 153 00:10:37,616.397 --> 00:10:39,286.397 So that's a danger. 154 00:10:39,306.397 --> 00:10:40,566.397 And it's, it's heartbreaking. 155 00:10:40,566.497 --> 00:10:40,818.24994118 Yeah. 156 00:10:40,818.24994118 --> 00:10:42,77.01464706 None of our students are. 157 00:10:42,77.01464706 --> 00:10:43,587.53229412 Cause we offer everything electronically now. 158 00:10:43,587.53229412 --> 00:10:45,966.396 Everything has to be electronic so that it can be updated. 159 00:10:46,386.396 --> 00:10:47,106.396 So they have access. 160 00:10:47,106.397 --> 00:10:48,596.397 Cause it does, it changes. 161 00:10:48,876.396 --> 00:10:52,196.396 I've had things change within a month of me teaching a class. 162 00:10:52,476.397 --> 00:10:55,476.397 And so I'm like, Oh, I have to change how I'm talking. 163 00:10:55,556.397 --> 00:10:56,436.397 We had. 164 00:10:56,756.397 --> 00:11:09,916.396 Book sent to us from UC Davis publishers that I reviewed and again, it's a beloved book and I enjoy it as well, but I found two mistakes and they had already gone to print. 165 00:11:09,916.496 --> 00:11:11,236.43066667 So, And that's funny. 166 00:11:11,236.53066667 --> 00:11:11,896.43066667 It just happens. 167 00:11:11,896.43066667 --> 00:11:12,446.43066667 Yeah. 168 00:11:12,526.43066667 --> 00:11:17,236.43066667 And one of the reasons why actually that press no longer sends those books is we found so many errors. 169 00:11:17,456.43066667 --> 00:11:17,916.43066667 Well, you. 170 00:11:17,976.43066667 --> 00:11:18,546.43066667 I sent one back. 171 00:11:18,956.42966667 --> 00:11:19,556.43066667 You really. 172 00:11:19,566.43066667 --> 00:11:20,436.43066667 this can't go. 173 00:11:20,691.43066667 --> 00:11:22,581.43066667 there's nothing about this that's actually correct. 174 00:11:22,631.43066667 --> 00:11:24,421.43066667 And they said, yeah, that was the last time. 175 00:11:24,711.43066667 --> 00:11:24,951.43066667 So. 176 00:11:25,11.43066667 --> 00:11:26,631.43066667 And this is, this leads into the other thing. 177 00:11:26,641.43066667 --> 00:11:31,521.43066667 Cause it's also cause this specific author that I just slid, it was all. 178 00:11:31,836.43066667 --> 00:11:35,56.43066667 It was, it was supposed to be science, but it was all opinion. 179 00:11:35,66.43066667 --> 00:11:38,326.43066667 Like it was opinion dressed in scientific jargon. 180 00:11:38,746.43066667 --> 00:11:42,466.43066667 And it was, you know, about natural wine, which was a big movement for a while. 181 00:11:42,566.43066667 --> 00:12:01,296.43066667 And that's high After wine school is proudly supported by the National Wine School, the gold standard, and professional wine certifications, whether you're dreaming of a career in the wine industry or just eager to take your wine knowledge to the next level, the National Wine School has you covered. 182 00:12:01,736.43066667 --> 00:12:07,106.43066667 Their programs are trusted, rigorous, and designed for aspiring wine pros like you. 183 00:12:09,526.43066667 --> 00:12:14,206.43066667 Visit Wine School us to learn more and start your journey today. 184 00:12:15,776.43066667 --> 00:12:16,536.43066667 and mighty. 185 00:12:16,966.43066667 --> 00:12:17,996.43066667 Exactly. 186 00:12:18,16.43066667 --> 00:12:21,336.42966667 No, no, that, that now they can narrow it down to 20 different books. 187 00:12:24,246.42966667 --> 00:12:25,96.43066667 But thank you. 188 00:12:25,326.43066667 --> 00:12:26,276.43066667 Thank you for coming up right there. 189 00:12:26,646.43066667 --> 00:12:27,516.43066667 But here's the other thing. 190 00:12:27,916.43066667 --> 00:12:30,546.43066667 Outdated information so people like us don't use them. 191 00:12:30,566.43066667 --> 00:12:30,826.43066667 Yeah. 192 00:12:31,126.43066667 --> 00:13:04,466.43016667 But I think the other real problem is, is that the attitude, like how they're written, who they're for, like, I don't know, and let me know in the, you know, let anyone let me know out there in the world, you know, are there any really like snooty wine people anymore? Like, I know there are, but they're kind of like dying off and their whole nose in the air like me, me, me, when the last time I was in Burgundy, me, me, me, and that whole attitude, that is a Bygone era but they still write like that. 193 00:13:04,476.43016667 --> 00:13:24,166.43016667 Like everything is written like we are all just, you know they dropped us off from our private jet and We get off and our feet never land the ground and they carry us around yeah, we're carrying around, or with the thing, where's that thing that they used to carry the royalty on? know, I know, I don't know what that is, but I like the idea of a rickshaw better, you know, because it seems so trashy and fun. 194 00:13:25,766.43016667 --> 00:13:31,506.43016667 Okay, so this is it, like, I mean, who is it, I mean, they pretend, and here's the thing, I know these writers. 195 00:13:31,936.43016667 --> 00:13:43,586.43016667 Some of them I've known professionally, some of them have been students of mine and all of them are dirt poor, like they're not rich, they're not wealthy, yet they run. 196 00:13:43,706.43016667 --> 00:13:45,306.42916667 Not from, not from the books. 197 00:13:45,326.43016667 --> 00:13:47,266.43016667 Not from the books, Let's not make that statement. 198 00:13:47,386.43016667 --> 00:13:47,786.43016667 alright. 199 00:13:47,806.43016667 --> 00:13:48,726.43016667 But not from the books. 200 00:13:48,796.42916667 --> 00:13:50,296.42916667 I'm thinking of a few people I know. 201 00:13:50,576.42916667 --> 00:13:50,816.42916667 know. 202 00:13:51,26.43016667 --> 00:13:52,711.43016667 So, Yeah. 203 00:13:52,711.53016667 --> 00:13:53,321.53016667 All right. 204 00:13:53,501.53016667 --> 00:13:55,151.53016667 It's a little bit harder to talk about. 205 00:13:55,221.53016667 --> 00:13:55,591.53016667 I know. 206 00:13:55,941.53016667 --> 00:14:06,221.53016667 It's funny because, yeah, and thanks for keeping me on track, not to actually like, you know, ruin anyone's reputation or, you know, but the problem, right, is that it's all. 207 00:14:06,536.53016667 --> 00:14:06,966.53016667 A myth. 208 00:14:06,976.53016667 --> 00:14:07,746.53016667 It's all a game. 209 00:14:07,746.53016667 --> 00:14:16,576.53016667 It's all like, let's pretend that we're still like, you know, the elite of the 19th century and pretend that we are royalty. 210 00:14:16,586.53016667 --> 00:14:18,156.53016667 And that's how we write about it. 211 00:14:19,416.53016667 --> 00:14:20,386.53016667 I find it offensive. 212 00:14:20,616.53016667 --> 00:14:25,136.53016667 there are others who are talking more, you know, to just an. 213 00:14:27,106.53016667 --> 00:14:34,126.53016667 And those books are great, but how many of those are you going to try and pretty much cover the same information? Yeah. 214 00:14:34,956.53016667 --> 00:14:39,376.53016667 And then what I find is that when some of them, it's less now, but it used to be a lot. 215 00:14:39,416.52916667 --> 00:15:09,951.53016667 And I think this was one of the things that especially, like, I'm not saying anything that's currently published, let's say that, but things previously published like 10 years ago or further earlier was that they were, Cause there's so little money in it and publishing wine books that they had undisclosed benefactors, oftentimes a company or Importer distributors even, you know, even like the wine regions would fund some parts of the books and this happened a lot. 216 00:15:10,181.53016667 --> 00:15:16,621.52916667 And so it was very biased and, you know, you could really have somebody just write wonderful things that don't mean anything. 217 00:15:16,631.52916667 --> 00:15:27,886.53016667 And I think that is also, and that's a real problem, you know, because how is it being funded and why? Now, yeah, it's the same reason why I wasn't going to write a wine book. 218 00:15:27,946.53016667 --> 00:15:32,776.53016667 I found the element of wine writing, both snooty, but also compromised. 219 00:15:32,986.53016667 --> 00:15:36,996.53016667 And you know, you know, there's people don't know this, but I, you know, I background in journalism. 220 00:15:37,6.53016667 --> 00:15:42,96.53016667 So I am a little bit of a hard ass when it comes to honesty in publishing. 221 00:15:42,426.53016667 --> 00:15:43,496.53016667 It has to be true. 222 00:15:43,916.53016667 --> 00:15:46,466.53016667 If you claim it's true, you have to, you're best. 223 00:15:46,631.53016667 --> 00:15:51,641.53016667 Case, and you can't accept money from somebody who you're writing about. 224 00:15:51,651.53016667 --> 00:15:54,471.53016667 Like that is obviously a no go. 225 00:15:54,921.53016667 --> 00:15:56,561.53116667 If you want to expect people to trust you. 226 00:15:57,261.53116667 --> 00:15:57,571.53116667 Yeah. 227 00:15:57,571.53116667 --> 00:16:01,361.53016667 Like, that's why we don't, I mean, I don't take money from anybody. 228 00:16:01,741.53116667 --> 00:16:05,181.53116667 not that anyone's offering me any money with my reputation. 229 00:16:05,451.53116667 --> 00:16:07,31.53116667 What would you say, so two questions. 230 00:16:07,81.53116667 --> 00:16:10,871.53116667 If you are looking to learn more about wine. 231 00:16:10,921.53116667 --> 00:16:17,471.53216667 What is your recommendation? What resources, how would you go about that? Okay, see, because, okay, I am, here's, I'm highly biased. 232 00:16:17,511.53216667 --> 00:16:26,406.43216667 Now, let me just straight out this is, Because this was always a problem coming from a winemaker, like, you know, 20 years ago, over 20 years ago now, to doing what I do. 233 00:16:26,406.43216667 --> 00:16:28,746.43216667 The only reason I do it is because I want people to have truth. 234 00:16:29,146.43216667 --> 00:16:31,376.43216667 And, you know, that's why I started our school. 235 00:16:31,406.43116667 --> 00:16:35,496.43116667 That's why, you know, you know, I'm on the board at the National Wine School. 236 00:16:35,496.43216667 --> 00:16:38,36.43216667 Like I, like, I insist on honesty. 237 00:16:38,36.43216667 --> 00:16:40,786.4321667 And so I, you know, it's, it's, so of course. 238 00:16:40,936.4321667 --> 00:16:41,826.4321667 Of course, plug us. 239 00:16:41,876.4321667 --> 00:16:43,76.4321667 course, but that's the truth. 240 00:16:43,776.4321667 --> 00:16:44,586.4321667 that's all I want. 241 00:16:44,596.4321667 --> 00:16:48,146.4321667 I don't need to write another book or write anything else. 242 00:16:48,636.4321667 --> 00:16:50,286.4321667 This is the thing that I believe in. 243 00:16:50,286.4321667 --> 00:16:52,366.4321667 I want people to have honest, and that's why we do this. 244 00:16:52,986.4321667 --> 00:16:55,516.4321667 Just talk about things, be really honest about things. 245 00:16:55,606.4311667 --> 00:16:56,186.4316667 And so, yeah. 246 00:16:56,236.4316667 --> 00:16:59,46.4316667 our classes, I think are the only things that are honest out there. 247 00:16:59,96.4316667 --> 00:17:05,516.4316667 And I think that the national line schools and what they publish, you know, online, I think that's what people need to look at. 248 00:17:05,576.4316667 --> 00:17:06,566.4316667 And that's why I do it. 249 00:17:07,156.4316667 --> 00:17:07,496.4316667 Sorry. 250 00:17:07,506.4316667 --> 00:17:08,176.4316667 Great answer. 251 00:17:09,606.4316667 --> 00:17:09,886.4316667 Okay. 252 00:17:09,996.4316667 --> 00:17:16,716.4316667 And, so what about someone who's a great writer and passionate about wine? Yeah. 253 00:17:16,756.4316667 --> 00:17:19,496.4311667 maybe thinking about, well, I'd like to write a book. 254 00:17:19,666.4321667 --> 00:17:20,116.4321667 Oh. 255 00:17:20,166.4321667 --> 00:17:23,26.4321667 I'd like to express my creativity somehow. 256 00:17:23,136.4321667 --> 00:17:40,616.4321667 How would you recommend that person, if they're interested in wine, would it be, is it, I mean, Is it blogs? Is it Substack? Is it, what would you recommend? A podcast? right now, like where can you monetize good writing? Podcasts are hard. 257 00:17:41,626.4321667 --> 00:17:45,296.4321667 I would say definitely, yeah, Substack, you know, a newsletter. 258 00:17:45,326.4321667 --> 00:17:50,966.4321667 Like I, to this day we have our own newsletter, not on Substack, but yeah, that I think is a really good idea. 259 00:17:51,286.4321667 --> 00:17:52,246.4321667 I also think that. 260 00:17:53,1.4321667 --> 00:17:59,911.4311667 You know, if you want to it's, a hard industry, like for a writer to get into right now, I got to say, that's very hard. 261 00:18:00,211.4321667 --> 00:18:12,731.4306667 So if you're doing it, you know, I would really recommend finding something else that you'll use this as your passion project to build up a reputation and not expect to make money on that part of it. 262 00:18:13,141.4306667 --> 00:18:17,61.4306667 I think that you would have to make, you have to make money doing other things. 263 00:18:17,141.4306667 --> 00:18:29,981.4306667 Wine, you know, giving talks running like classes wherever you are, if they have the education if they build up their knowledge base, you know, opening up a wine school, like these are things that actually are smarter ways and more, you know, honestly, just. 264 00:18:30,451.4306667 --> 00:18:33,11.4306667 Yeah, I just coming from being a writer. 265 00:18:33,61.4306667 --> 00:18:35,681.4306667 I don't know right now if that's a possibility. 266 00:18:35,741.4306667 --> 00:18:39,451.4306667 That's the honest answer Yeah, but I wanted to yeah you to just stay. 267 00:18:39,461.4306667 --> 00:18:40,591.4306667 Yeah people know. 268 00:18:40,591.4306667 --> 00:18:46,21.4306667 Yeah It's not not trying to pull up the gate or the bridge behind us. 269 00:18:46,61.4296667 --> 00:18:48,211.4306667 No or you More accurately. 270 00:18:48,211.4306667 --> 00:18:53,221.4306667 Yeah, but it truly is really a bygone era it is right now. 271 00:18:53,331.4306667 --> 00:18:57,496.4306667 I you know where people are getting their information I mean, it is things like podcasts. 272 00:18:57,786.4306667 --> 00:19:03,286.4306667 You know, we started doing this because realize that everyone's afraid to do a podcast where you can be honest about things. 273 00:19:03,546.4306667 --> 00:19:19,606.4306667 So we wanted to be a little bit of a vanguard to do this and just so that I can just, you know, drop an F bomb and whatever, you know, and then say, it's okay to be, you know, like normal and just be able to talk about it as a passion and a love and do it intelligently, but not, you know, not be snooty about it. 274 00:19:19,936.4306667 --> 00:19:20,986.4301667 Like break this paradigm. 275 00:19:21,36.4301667 --> 00:19:26,936.4301667 Once we break that paradigm especially the old white guy, cause basically we need less old white guys in this to make this more fun. 276 00:19:27,506.4301667 --> 00:19:34,426.4301667 And which is something that I say to people in class, cause it's always some old white guy who's making a problem for everybody else. 277 00:19:34,426.4301667 --> 00:19:37,576.4311667 And I stand up there and like, look, I'm the only old white guy who has to be here. 278 00:19:38,326.4311667 --> 00:19:40,386.4311667 And you know, laughter. 279 00:19:40,496.4311667 --> 00:19:41,786.4301667 And then that guy goes like, oh. 280 00:19:42,336.4311667 --> 00:19:46,756.4311667 which is great, but there is like, we've owned this spot for a long time. 281 00:19:46,756.4311667 --> 00:19:51,96.4311667 There needs to be new blood and there is, it's just a lot and it's coming they're figuring it out. 282 00:19:51,146.4311667 --> 00:19:54,676.4301667 But yeah, it is going to be, I'm not going to know where it's going to come from. 283 00:19:54,686.4311667 --> 00:19:58,266.4301667 I know that, you know, for white education is a great place to be. 284 00:19:58,276.4301667 --> 00:19:58,886.4301667 It's a place that I love. 285 00:19:58,936.5301667 --> 00:20:09,726.5301667 But yeah, but we do, and there are writers and a lot of the people who are writers who started with us, there are, there are plenty of them and who make a living, but they also do, that's only a part of what they do. 286 00:20:10,26.5301667 --> 00:20:16,866.5301667 They use it as a part of the whole and the most successful ones, you know, there's also, there's all other kinds of elements. 287 00:20:16,956.5301667 --> 00:20:21,886.5301667 It's just a part of what they are and that's important to understand that that's, you know, and it's. 288 00:20:22,101.5301667 --> 00:20:23,423.6968333 It's never just about wine. 289 00:20:23,423.6968333 --> 00:20:25,317.0968333 never just wine, right? But you know, here's the thing. 290 00:20:25,407.0968333 --> 00:20:25,717.0968333 Okay. 291 00:20:25,737.0968333 --> 00:20:28,957.0968333 There's going to be somebody out there right now who's going to figure it out. 292 00:20:29,117.0968333 --> 00:20:36,507.0963333 And that is going to be the next, you know, Robert Parker or whomever who nobody knows, by the way, Google that, because no one remembers who that was. 293 00:20:36,507.0963333 --> 00:20:40,307.0968333 And he was like the most important person in wine like 20 years ago. 294 00:20:40,727.0968333 --> 00:20:41,27.0968333 But. 295 00:20:41,642.0968333 --> 00:20:42,862.0968333 Yeah, it's gonna happen. 296 00:20:42,872.0968333 --> 00:20:44,472.0968333 It just we just don't know how it's gonna happen. 297 00:20:44,472.0968333 --> 00:20:45,332.0968333 It's not gonna be me. 298 00:20:45,342.0968333 --> 00:20:53,992.0968333 It's not gonna be you But it's got there's someone out there who is gonna actually and there's gonna be group people who are going to find the way And I'm looking forward to that. 299 00:20:54,762.0968333 --> 00:20:55,282.0968333 I love that. 300 00:20:55,282.0968333 --> 00:20:56,242.0958333 Well, let's drink to that. 301 00:20:56,392.0968333 --> 00:21:31,657.0958333 So he pulled that bottle because I already showed them but so that they see it Oh! She almost dropped the bottle! She pulled it out for the camera, for the folks who are watching this via, you know, a video, and she almost dropped the bottle, and this is, and this, this specific bottle of Chapoutier, what's it called, what's it called again? And this is from the Cote de Roussillon, and unlike most wines from Roussillon, this is mostly Syrah, which is my, yeah, I know now, all right, so. 302 00:21:31,942.0958333 --> 00:21:42,102.0958333 Before we started, you described this in a way, it was the best way I've ever heard Sarad describe, and I'd like you to say it again. 303 00:21:43,162.0958333 --> 00:21:44,222.0958333 I want you to, yeah. 304 00:21:44,282.0958333 --> 00:21:46,932.0958333 Well, we started from a very gross place. 305 00:21:46,972.0958333 --> 00:21:47,462.0958333 Yes. 306 00:21:47,552.0948333 --> 00:21:59,102.0958333 Oh, I was talking about our chill of blood flow, and I'm because I have some, I don't know, I have old students who are trauma surgeons, and whenever they smell Sarad, they're like. 307 00:21:59,457.0958333 --> 00:22:05,297.0958333 Hmm, they started describing surgeries and trauma surgeries and it was gross. 308 00:22:05,467.0958333 --> 00:22:05,957.0958333 It was a lot. 309 00:22:05,977.0958333 --> 00:22:07,277.0958333 It was a lot, So. 310 00:22:07,417.0958333 --> 00:22:08,7.0958333 Yes. 311 00:22:08,127.0958333 --> 00:22:13,167.0958333 First of all, the nose on this, it's so Chapoutier to me. 312 00:22:13,197.0958333 --> 00:22:16,637.0958333 It really does take me back, It just smells like hermitage. 313 00:22:16,637.0968333 --> 00:22:21,587.0968333 It does, So putting aside the arterial blood, it's, it's more of that iron. 314 00:22:21,627.0968333 --> 00:22:22,107.0968333 Yes. 315 00:22:22,197.0968333 --> 00:22:25,97.0968333 But also lots of oak and earthiness. 316 00:22:25,147.0968333 --> 00:22:29,997.0968333 I thought what came to my mind was a butcher block, but a used butcher block. 317 00:22:30,707.0968333 --> 00:22:35,917.0968333 So maybe you had been making hamburgers or breaking down a chicken or something. 318 00:22:35,997.0968333 --> 00:22:36,407.0968333 Yeah. 319 00:22:36,487.0968333 --> 00:22:39,357.0948333 No, it would be definitely, yeah, rabbit or. 320 00:22:39,447.0958333 --> 00:22:39,867.0958333 Rabbit. 321 00:22:39,867.0958333 --> 00:22:40,497.0958333 Thanks, Stinky. 322 00:22:40,847.0958333 --> 00:22:41,337.0958333 Yeah, beef. 323 00:22:41,377.0958333 --> 00:22:42,357.0958333 It's just definitely beef. 324 00:22:42,407.0958333 --> 00:22:50,837.0958333 So what I was thinking, so when you were talking about that, I was thinking, so in my hometown, there was this butcher, or used to, he's not there anymore because he retired, his mom retired. 325 00:22:51,187.0958333 --> 00:22:54,757.0938333 And this is the kind of butcher where they would actually like they would skin your, oh, that guy. 326 00:22:54,767.0948333 --> 00:22:55,357.0948333 Yeah, that guy. 327 00:22:55,407.0948333 --> 00:22:57,537.0948333 his mom, skin the rabbit for you. 328 00:22:57,537.1948333 --> 00:23:28,487.1953333 But his butcher block, because it was so, I don't know how old it was it was just creviced, cause he had butchered so many animals on that, and it had that smell, it was, it had very distinct woodsy note, but it also was just like, it had a very distinct animal quality, gamey quality, you know, which is the fancy way of saying this, the other way of talking about this is actually Slim Jims, Of course, because that's slightly gamey, slightly rancid meat that's preserved meat, when you smell it, you're like. 329 00:23:29,497.1953333 --> 00:23:30,447.1953333 I think I can eat that. 330 00:23:30,467.1953333 --> 00:23:31,727.1953333 It's so much preservative. 331 00:23:31,757.1953333 --> 00:23:32,87.1953333 Yeah. 332 00:23:32,97.1953333 --> 00:23:36,797.1953333 The, they're like, Oh, I think I, I'm not sure I should, but I don't think it's going to kill me. 333 00:23:37,147.1943333 --> 00:23:39,527.1953333 That smell of Syrah, which is my favorite. 334 00:23:40,727.1943333 --> 00:23:41,197.1943333 Yeah. 335 00:23:41,627.1953333 --> 00:23:47,7.1953333 Hey, when I was talking about like what my favorite wines are, this is it. 336 00:23:48,87.1953333 --> 00:23:56,307.1953333 This, but then of course it all has all those dark fruit and a little bit of red fruit and all that oak, which is down cinnamon and all spice in the background. 337 00:23:56,937.1953333 --> 00:23:57,687.1953333 Herbaceousness? Yes. 338 00:23:58,77.1953333 --> 00:24:04,587.1953333 Which did you notice? It's actually like probably coming with a little bit of Grenache in there, but it's coming off as like blue flowers. 339 00:24:04,677.1953333 --> 00:24:08,407.1953333 Mm-hmm And like, and that's really nice. 340 00:24:08,407.1953333 --> 00:24:08,737.1953333 like that. 341 00:24:08,797.1953333 --> 00:24:09,512.1953333 Oh, this is pretty. 342 00:24:10,562.1953333 --> 00:24:11,732.1953333 misophonia warning. 343 00:24:11,842.1953333 --> 00:24:12,832.1953333 Oh, we're gonna taste that. 344 00:24:18,117.1953333 --> 00:24:39,592.1953333 totally get it if blood tasted like this I'd be a vampire too, you know I'm not the biggest sara fan, but no this man's wines my goodness I mean, so yeah, cause a lot of times Sara will get a little too fat, a little too round trying to push the envelope a little bit, but his wines are always balanced. 345 00:24:40,272.1953333 --> 00:24:44,532.1953333 Like there is just enough acidity here, which is also interesting. 346 00:24:44,532.1953333 --> 00:24:45,912.1943333 There's usually more in Roussillon. 347 00:24:45,912.2943333 --> 00:24:54,132.1953333 It's just a little cooler up in the hills where this is harvested, grown versus Languedoc, which is, you know, so this is the Roussillon part of. 348 00:24:54,222.2953333 --> 00:24:58,662.1953333 Languedoc Roussillon, Languedoc, flatter, more Mediterranean. 349 00:24:58,662.1953333 --> 00:25:01,392.1953333 This is actually up in the hills going into the Pyrenees. 350 00:25:01,642.1953333 --> 00:25:09,32.1953333 And if you kept on going, you would end up in Spain, you know, and this is, you know, the Catalan region. 351 00:25:09,62.1953333 --> 00:25:12,502.1943333 And this is the little part of Catalan region that's actually in France. 352 00:25:12,942.1953333 --> 00:25:18,221.2212262 But so up in these hills, up in the Pyrenees mountain range, where you're in the foothills, it's cooler. 353 00:25:18,221.2212262 --> 00:25:19,237.9989048 It's much cooler. 354 00:25:19,237.9989048 --> 00:25:21,610.4801548 Clearly, we use the term diurnal weather. 355 00:25:21,950.4176548 --> 00:25:25,690.4176548 Shifts, where it's cooler at night, retains some acidity, a lot of it. 356 00:25:25,710.4176548 --> 00:25:30,570.4176548 And so you have this freshness along with your voluptuousness and it's just balanced. 357 00:25:30,590.4176548 --> 00:25:31,770.4186548 Yeah, it's beautiful. 358 00:25:32,100.4186548 --> 00:25:32,890.4186548 Oh, oh yeah. 359 00:25:32,970.4176548 --> 00:25:34,940.4186548 Thank you everyone for joining us. 360 00:25:35,10.4186548 --> 00:25:38,350.4186548 They have to go? I don't want them to go, I love this wine. 361 00:25:39,160.4186548 --> 00:25:40,480.4186548 Thanks for joining us. 362 00:25:40,490.4186548 --> 00:25:46,570.4186548 If you would like to reach out, send a comment, a question, feel free, we'd love to hear from you. 363 00:25:46,680.4186548 --> 00:25:47,60.4186548 Oh God. 364 00:25:47,60.4186548 --> 00:25:47,190.4181548 Yeah. 365 00:25:47,190.4181548 --> 00:25:47,320.4176548 Yeah. 366 00:25:47,320.4176548 --> 00:25:48,290.4186548 Questions are great. 367 00:25:49,150.4176548 --> 00:25:54,390.4186548 Look, and if you have anything you want us to talk about, you have any comments, suggestions, but very much look. 368 00:25:54,565.4186548 --> 00:25:56,115.4186548 If you like this, awesome. 369 00:25:56,125.4186548 --> 00:25:59,5.4186548 Give us five stars, say it's the best thing you ever listened to. 370 00:25:59,5.4186548 --> 00:26:02,135.4186548 But even more importantly, let your friends know about it. 371 00:26:02,225.4186548 --> 00:26:03,565.4186548 Get them to download this. 372 00:26:03,565.4186548 --> 00:26:05,515.4186548 Let them to listen to it every week. 373 00:26:05,985.4176548 --> 00:26:07,315.4176548 You know, it's just a labor of love. 374 00:26:07,315.4176548 --> 00:26:08,955.4166548 We're trying to change the world of wine. 375 00:26:08,955.4176548 --> 00:26:10,915.4176548 Just, you know, one F bomb at a time. 376 00:26:18,635.4176548 --> 00:26:19,985.4186548 One F bomb at a time. 377 00:26:26,155.4186548 --> 00:26:29,135.4186548 Thanks for spending time with us on After Wine School. 378 00:26:29,675.4186548 --> 00:26:36,785.4176548 If you enjoyed today's episode, hit subscribe so you never miss out on more wine wisdom, tips, and laughs.
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