March 11, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode of After Wine School, hosts Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe dive deep into the world of sparkling wines, starting with a critique of generic Prosecco and moving on to various high-quality alternatives like Cava, Loire Valley bubbles, and Anderson Valley wines. They discuss the importance of lees, the complexities of different sparkling wines, and touch upon unique varieties like Bougie Cerdan and Greek orange wines. The episode aims to educate listeners on identifying good quality bubbles without the snobbery, highlighting the joy in discovering diverse and lesser-known sparkling wines.
00:00 Introduction to After Wine School
00:41 Today's Topic: Bubbles
01:31 Prosecco: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
02:52 Understanding Quality in Sparkling Wines
05:52 Exploring Cava and Its Complexities
17:19 The Charm of Loire and Other French Bubbles
19:06 American Sparkling Wines: Hidden Gems
22:24 Weird and Wonderful: Unique Sparkling Wines
27:09 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to After Wine School, the podcast that demystifies wine and makes it approachable for everyone.
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(00:26):
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And let's dive in.
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Hey folks, welcome to the After School Podcast.
I'm Keith Wallace with Alana Zerbe and what are we doing today? Today we're talking about bubbles, Keith.
(00:51):
Oh good, that's right.
It's good because I'm actually teaching that class, so I probably should get my head in gear.
Yeah, tell me about what you're gonna be talking about, what you're serving, All right, well, hey, first we should actually say the things that we have to say. 13 00:01:04,275.999 --> 00:01:05,505.999 We have to say them.
.9995Well, first off, there's the thing where you have to say well, first off we are supported by the National Wine School, which is fantastic. 15 00:01:13,550.9995 --> 00:01:15,220.9995 That's exactly right there. 16 00:01:15,390.9995 --> 00:01:24,530.9985 So all of the, whereas, where for carve outs, make sure they have no liability for anything. 17 00:01:24,810.9995 --> 00:01:25,240.9995 Okay. 18 00:01:25,250.9995 --> 00:01:31,280.9995 So they're, they're not, they can't be liable for anything because, because really, cause the truth is, is I'm studying this crap. 19 00:01:31,770.9995 --> 00:01:42,620.9995 the problem is, well, for, you know, of course for national white school and anyone else who actually doesn't like when I Get on my, my height worse is that I'm really starting this class off with how much I hate generic Prosecco. 20 00:01:42,770.9995 --> 00:01:43,940.9995 Not all Prosecco. 21 00:01:43,960.9995 --> 00:01:58,521.0005 I'm not going to say all Prosecco, there is a tiny percentage that's actually made well, but I deeply hate the, the volumes of cheap, awful Prosecco that just washes across the world. 22 00:01:58,881.0005 --> 00:01:59,111.0005 Okay. 23 00:01:59,111.0005 --> 00:02:02,241.0005 So let's practice some constructive criticism. 24 00:02:02,241.0005 --> 00:02:03,260.9995 Let's make a sandwich. 25 00:02:03,260.9995 --> 00:02:07,321.0005 So Let's say two nice things and then put the tough stuff in the middle. 26 00:02:07,421.0005 --> 00:02:08,721.0005 So two nice things. 27 00:02:09,81.0005 --> 00:02:11,11.0005 Okay, This is really going to be a shit sandwich. 28 00:02:11,866.0005 --> 00:02:16,540.9995 Okay, so the first nice thing is the bottles are recyclable. 29 00:02:17,65.9995 --> 00:02:21,265.9995 They're not No, I didn't recycle. 30 00:02:21,265.9995 --> 00:02:23,460.9995 Like bottles are not being recycled currently. 31 00:02:23,520.9995 --> 00:02:23,880.9995 Oh, all right. 32 00:02:23,880.9995 --> 00:02:24,300.9995 Sorry. 33 00:02:24,600.9995 --> 00:02:24,930.9995 Alright. 34 00:02:25,30.9995 --> 00:02:26,620.9995 Okay, I'll give you one. 35 00:02:26,700.9995 --> 00:02:27,130.9995 Okay, good. 36 00:02:27,140.9995 --> 00:02:28,540.9995 a litmus test. 37 00:02:28,580.9995 --> 00:02:29,90.9995 Yeah. 38 00:02:29,620.9995 --> 00:02:32,910.9995 For whether you will like a person or not, whether they drink. 39 00:02:32,961.0995 --> 00:02:35,531.1005 Hey, you like Prosecco, I'm going to hate you. 40 00:02:35,911.1005 --> 00:02:36,641.0995 I don't know. 41 00:02:36,641.1995 --> 00:02:44,51.0995 I mean, people like it because it's the thing they've been introduced to and it's like in their price point and there's so much of it. 42 00:02:44,446.1005 --> 00:02:45,616.1005 And there's so much marketing. 43 00:02:45,616.1005 --> 00:02:47,476.1005 I don't blame them for liking it. 44 00:02:47,476.1005 --> 00:02:51,346.1005 I just, I wanna introduce them to this idea that it's really not great. 45 00:02:51,896.1005 --> 00:02:52,226.1005 Okay. 46 00:02:52,226.1005 --> 00:02:53,971.1005 how are you gonna do that? Well, I'm gonna say this. 47 00:02:53,971.1005 --> 00:02:55,331.1005 Yeah, I'm gonna, it's not great. 48 00:02:55,461.1005 --> 00:02:56,136.1005 I'm gonna serve them. 49 00:02:56,376.1005 --> 00:02:58,356.1005 One of the most generic, sad. 50 00:02:58,356.1005 --> 00:02:59,16.1005 I'm gonna, okay. 51 00:02:59,286.1005 --> 00:03:00,306.1005 Some of you're gonna like this. 52 00:03:00,306.1005 --> 00:03:03,156.1005 Mm-hmm They're gonna like, so they're wrong and I'm not gonna be Yuck. 53 00:03:03,156.1005 --> 00:03:03,486.1005 They young. 54 00:03:03,656.1005 --> 00:03:27,176.1005 Now I'm definitely not going to do that, but I am going to point out that if what we really want is like, what do we mean by good quality and what is it you're actually getting with these generic Charlotte produced, you know, these tank made inexpensively made Prosecco's and what are we getting? What is it that we should be looking for when we're looking for good? Cause that's the thing. 55 00:03:27,176.1005 --> 00:03:29,546.1005 People, they like things. 56 00:03:29,866.1005 --> 00:03:33,226.1005 But they don't know what to look for other than this tastes good. 57 00:03:33,926.1005 --> 00:03:44,486.0995 I also think Prosecco being that it's an Italian wine, people fall in love with Italian wines and just kind of anything under that heading gets a lot of love. 58 00:03:44,546.1005 --> 00:03:45,796.1005 It really does. 59 00:03:45,856.0995 --> 00:03:49,166.1 And which is funny, especially, especially on the East coast. 60 00:03:49,166.1 --> 00:03:51,256.1005 Like there's just an immediate love affair. 61 00:03:51,266.1005 --> 00:03:52,576.1005 And I understand that too. 62 00:03:53,31.1005 --> 00:04:07,691.1005 You know, having worked in Italy, I got away with a lot of stuff, you know, I mean that I know, like, I mean, there were wines I produced that should not have been given the ratings or the price points they were like, I know that, but so thank you. 63 00:04:08,21.1005 --> 00:04:08,301.1005 But. 64 00:04:08,801.1005 --> 00:04:47,876.1005 Yeah, it's hard, you know, you want to get them step away from that and just say, Hey, what about thinking about like, what are we, what does a great bubble, how does that experience, how is it supposed to unfold, how, what does really good bubbles, what does somebody who makes bubble sparkling wine from anywhere, what are they hoping to do? What do Prosecco producers wish they were doing? And then we get talked about that, you know, and then, you know, how they are sort of caught, really caught in this real vice of they have to produce a very high quantity of wines and a very low price. 65 00:04:47,886.0995 --> 00:04:56,226.1005 Like their margins are tiny and, but nobody's willing to spend 30 for Prosecco where people are happy to spend. 66 00:04:56,571.1005 --> 00:04:59,36.1005 40, 50, a hundred dollars on champagne. 67 00:04:59,36.1005 --> 00:05:04,526.1005 So they're really caught and just allow people to get some ideas. 68 00:05:04,576.1005 --> 00:05:05,416.1005 But I'm starting there. 69 00:05:05,596.0995 --> 00:05:10,206.1005 My hate on Prosecco is where we start and I'm going to go in hard and then I'm going to be nice. 70 00:05:10,276.1005 --> 00:05:13,216.1005 I'm going to do that thing where I'm going to go start real mean. 71 00:05:13,486.0995 --> 00:05:15,921.0005 And then I'm going to get nice just so that people. 72 00:05:16,921.1005 --> 00:05:19,691.1005 Cause I have them for about an hour and a half, two hours. 73 00:05:19,691.1005 --> 00:05:23,471.1005 And so I know that I can break them a little bit in the beginning and then build them back up. 74 00:05:23,561.1005 --> 00:05:26,871.1005 And I can make them laugh, show those really cool stuff. 75 00:05:26,931.1005 --> 00:05:29,601.1005 And then some super weird stuff at the end, like super weird. 76 00:05:29,941.0995 --> 00:05:30,671.1005 Well, take me through it. 77 00:05:30,671.1005 --> 00:05:37,741.1005 So how are you going to demonstrate to them your, thesis statement? Well, yeah. 78 00:05:37,741.1005 --> 00:05:41,621.1005 So the first, it's just generic Prosecco's sadness in the glass. 79 00:05:42,536.1005 --> 00:05:47,356.1005 And yeah, I don't usually, in a wine class, the whole idea is to show them great examples. 80 00:05:47,776.1005 --> 00:05:51,446.1005 But this is the greatest example of Prosecco because it's sadness. 81 00:05:52,266.1005 --> 00:05:57,46.1005 And then what I'm going to do is I'm going to show them a great Cava, right after that, at about the same price point. 82 00:05:57,696.1005 --> 00:06:00,86.0985 But what is it about the Prosecco? oh, sorry. 83 00:06:00,136.0995 --> 00:06:01,396.0995 Really simple flavor. 84 00:06:01,406.0995 --> 00:06:04,656.0995 So first off, very simple lemon lime. 85 00:06:04,706.0995 --> 00:06:07,126.0995 Flavors in very large bulbs. 86 00:06:07,516.0995 --> 00:06:15,666.0995 and I assume having been in the industry for long enough, I know what I have never had this specific one. 87 00:06:16,16.0985 --> 00:06:20,906.0985 Cause I would never want to have this ever again, or even once, but it's going to be metallic. 88 00:06:21,526.0985 --> 00:06:31,886.0975 It's going to have a metallic, you know, that really high acid, low pH, almost like an oily note then it's going to just be big fat bubbles and then it's just going to be gone. 89 00:06:31,946.0985 --> 00:06:32,516.0975 Thank you. 90 00:06:32,526.0975 --> 00:06:41,366.0985 So yes, the bubbles, I think when I've taught this class in the past, you can really see the quality of the bubbles from this class. 91 00:06:42,196.0985 --> 00:06:46,406.0985 As you move on, you will notice they get more tightly firm. 92 00:06:46,436.0985 --> 00:06:47,966.0985 There's better moves there. 93 00:06:48,466.0985 --> 00:06:51,586.0985 That's, yeah, they become more brisk and lively. 94 00:06:51,596.0985 --> 00:06:52,856.0975 So that's a nice thing. 95 00:06:52,906.0985 --> 00:06:53,496.0985 Exactly. 96 00:06:53,496.0985 --> 00:07:21,631.0985 You know, and I don't, you're much more sophisticated because my class is going to be more, Because I just, I, I, I say they're like laser like pew pew, and the more pew pew you have, the more, the better it is, you know, so, like, you picture, you know, it's, you know, you're thinking Star Wars, and, you know, you're thinking, you know, here's the stormtroopers, they just, very lazy, shooting all over the place, not very good, but then, you know, and then, but then you get, you know, you know, You know, you get the Tie Fighters in there and it's a lot of, like, laser battles and things. 97 00:07:22,71.0985 --> 00:07:27,361.0985 And that's a better, that's a, that's a great champagne, where you have very fine laser shots. 98 00:07:28,261.0975 --> 00:07:33,853.1575 And there, Well, I think that they're, I think they may like mine because I'm not nearly as classy. 99 00:07:33,853.1575 --> 00:07:35,583.1585 a lot of notes in my classes. 100 00:07:35,643.2585 --> 00:07:39,753.1585 But people love the pew pew. 101 00:07:41,463.1585 --> 00:07:41,493.1585 Okay. 102 00:07:43,543.1585 --> 00:07:50,883.1585 So then, so it's simplicity, like not complexity, like some kind of metallic. 103 00:07:51,393.1585 --> 00:07:52,623.158 And it's actually factory made. 104 00:07:52,623.158 --> 00:07:54,673.1575 Like, this is how you can tell a factory made wine. 105 00:07:54,973.1585 --> 00:07:58,103.1575 Like, this is not a wine that was made with care. 106 00:07:58,113.1575 --> 00:08:04,763.1575 This is a wine that's been pushed out in millions of bottles every year consistently over time. 107 00:08:05,533.1575 --> 00:08:16,983.1565 And as a rule of thumb too, because bubbles are hard to make, and usually there's such small production that you only see them a few times a year, like really good stuff. 108 00:08:16,983.1565 --> 00:08:19,703.1565 You might see it for like maybe four or five months at most. 109 00:08:19,983.1565 --> 00:08:21,733.1565 And that's gone out of the marketplace. 110 00:08:21,763.1565 --> 00:08:27,923.1565 Whereas some of these Prosecco's like they're around, I mean, 365 days out of the year. 111 00:08:27,933.1565 --> 00:08:35,93.1565 And you kind of wonder like, how is that possible? You know, how, you know, they are being made like Coca Cola, like they're just large and they are. 112 00:08:35,93.1565 --> 00:08:36,653.1555 And actually the systems are very similar. 113 00:08:36,653.1565 --> 00:08:40,183.1565 Actually the engineering systems are very similar to a bottler system. 114 00:08:40,213.1555 --> 00:08:40,773.1555 You could actually. 115 00:08:41,828.1565 --> 00:08:42,188.1565 Yeah. 116 00:08:42,218.1565 --> 00:08:45,138.1565 I mean, you can have a Prosecco bottle or every towel. 117 00:08:45,368.1565 --> 00:08:45,778.1565 Wow. 118 00:08:45,878.1565 --> 00:08:46,268.1565 Yeah. 119 00:08:46,428.1565 --> 00:08:46,688.1565 Okay. 120 00:08:46,688.1565 --> 00:08:48,698.1565 So then you're moving on to Kava. 121 00:08:49,298.1565 --> 00:08:52,268.1565 Then I'm moving to Kava and Kava, cause this one is great. 122 00:08:52,358.1555 --> 00:08:54,618.1555 Cause what it is, it's vintage, a little older. 123 00:08:54,618.2555 --> 00:08:55,848.1545 It's been on the knees for a long time. 124 00:08:57,573.1555 --> 00:09:05,433.1555 My guess, and this is what I am planning, I'm planning that the majority of people who already love Bubbles and shampoos, they're gonna go, Oh, this is amazing. 125 00:09:05,493.1545 --> 00:09:10,223.1555 Right? So they're gonna be like, oh my god, that same price point, this much better. 126 00:09:10,223.1555 --> 00:09:19,323.1555 So those people will be, I'll have them, but the everyone else, like the other half of the class who really don't know, like, what they like and what's good, because that's the idea. 127 00:09:19,953.1555 --> 00:09:26,473.1555 They're gonna say, oh, This is weird because it was on Lee's for like two years minimum. 128 00:09:27,143.1555 --> 00:09:33,93.1555 And so that leasiness is gonna give it, you know, it's gonna give it that nice pastry note, but it's also gonna give it a funky note. 129 00:09:33,653.1555 --> 00:09:38,423.1555 So I wanted to actually give them a little whiplash and say simple complex. 130 00:09:38,423.1555 --> 00:09:40,43.1555 Now, I'm not expecting you to like this. 131 00:09:40,43.2555 --> 00:09:43,933.1555 This is, this is, as a first time out, this is gonna be a little weird. 132 00:09:43,933.1555 --> 00:09:47,803.1555 Like if you're getting this, awesome, but I don't expect you to. 133 00:09:48,358.1555 --> 00:09:53,358.1555 Because I don't expect, I want to give them a little bit of a whiplash, like, Oh, how different it can be. 134 00:09:53,358.1555 --> 00:09:55,228.1555 And I want them to recognize difference right away. 135 00:09:55,508.1555 --> 00:09:57,838.1545 And when they're tasting, they're like, Oh, I can tell the difference. 136 00:09:58,128.1555 --> 00:10:06,708.1545 And so I get them right away, especially people who don't drink wine that much, or they're not used to thinking about what they're doing, that will capture them. 137 00:10:07,418.1545 --> 00:10:13,488.1555 So that way we'll get, I should have almost the entire class thinking how I want them to think. 138 00:10:14,8.1555 --> 00:10:20,928.1555 about focusing on flavors and smells and how to determine like you, the different elements of sparkling wines. 139 00:10:20,948.1555 --> 00:10:27,948.155 What, what's a good smell? What do we consider fine? What's okay? Even if it's weird, because there's a lot. 140 00:10:27,988.155 --> 00:10:28,158.155 Yeah. 141 00:10:28,178.156 --> 00:10:31,298.155 There's a lot of weird, wonderful smells and bubbles. 142 00:10:31,298.156 --> 00:10:33,48.155 And some of which. 143 00:10:33,513.156 --> 00:10:45,741.095 there's a lot of them really are like they're Could you give us a couple since we're Oh, like, of like what shouldn't be there or what should be there? Oh, well, what should be there? Okay, here's the, here's the weirdest thing is good vintage champagnes. 144 00:10:46,141.096 --> 00:10:49,321.096 Like ones that have been held on lees in the bottle. 145 00:10:49,881.096 --> 00:10:52,261.096 let me back up, explain what lees is for one second. 146 00:10:52,261.096 --> 00:10:59,841.096 Lee's is actually the yeast that in the fermentation it's in there largely because it's gone through a fermentation in the bottle. 147 00:10:59,871.096 --> 00:11:03,781.095 And so the yeast it's all dead now because it's gone through fermentation. 148 00:11:04,51.096 --> 00:11:15,921.096 It's created carbon dioxide along with alcohol and that's now dissolved into the wine that gives us bubbles, right? So that carbon dioxide dissolved forced in because it's under so much pressure in that bottle. 149 00:11:16,656.096 --> 00:11:28,266.096 Now all that lees, now, so they let that lees sit in there for years and that yeast, which is the lees, starts to decompose, which we say autolyze. 150 00:11:28,796.095 --> 00:11:30,456.096 And so that means it's breaking apart. 151 00:11:30,456.096 --> 00:11:35,956.096 It's breaking apart into tiny little, you know, subsections of carbohydrates and sugars. 152 00:11:36,286.096 --> 00:11:42,266.096 And there, these things are going to add texture, like a richness to the wine, but it's also going to give it flavor. 153 00:11:42,286.096 --> 00:11:46,236.096 And so over time, the first flavors that you start noticing are that. 154 00:11:46,296.196 --> 00:11:55,661.096 Like nuttiness, maybe a toastiness, bread, but then it starts getting As it sits in there, it starts to decay, because that's really what's happening. 155 00:11:55,661.096 --> 00:11:59,801.096 It's, it's carbohydrates, parts of carbohydrates decaying. 156 00:12:00,171.096 --> 00:12:02,131.096 Then it starts tasting like mushrooms. 157 00:12:02,191.096 --> 00:12:02,871.095 Oh, decomp. 158 00:12:02,941.095 --> 00:12:03,661.096 Decomp, it's decomp. 159 00:12:04,271.096 --> 00:12:06,191.096 Oh yeah, it starts getting real funky. 160 00:12:06,451.096 --> 00:12:11,945.996 If it sits on the leaves for like 10 years, which there are vintage champagnes that sit on. 161 00:12:12,206.096 --> 00:12:13,456.096 They are intense. 162 00:12:13,666.096 --> 00:12:17,156.096 And I had one of those unfortunately for the first time in a class. 163 00:12:17,776.096 --> 00:12:20,256.096 And when I had that happen, I may have told the story before. 164 00:12:20,256.096 --> 00:12:24,356.0955 It's my, my favorite stories of me totally screwing up as a teacher. 165 00:12:24,356.0955 --> 00:12:26,906.095 And this was early on, this is 20 years ago. 166 00:12:27,556.095 --> 00:12:28,276.096 I opened it up. 167 00:12:28,286.095 --> 00:12:30,326.095 I had never had one before. 168 00:12:30,426.095 --> 00:12:40,946.095 Trying to keep my shit together in class while all I'm smelling is homeless toes and a wine that I just spent, you know, 20 years ago over a hundred dollars on. 169 00:12:41,366.095 --> 00:12:43,736.095 And you know, for today's dollar, that'd be like three, four hundred dollars. 170 00:12:43,736.095 --> 00:12:49,566.095 So I now, that was a hard lesson to learn in the middle of class. 171 00:12:49,726.095 --> 00:12:50,726.095 But it was correct. 172 00:12:50,806.095 --> 00:12:51,806.095 Oh, 100 percent correct. 173 00:12:51,806.095 --> 00:12:52,136.095 Yeah. 174 00:12:52,616.094 --> 00:12:54,246.093 At that moment I had no idea. 175 00:12:54,256.094 --> 00:12:56,496.093 And of course I just sort of said it was correct. 176 00:12:56,546.094 --> 00:13:00,936.094 and then I just really called people and asked, you know, and they're like, yeah, that's exactly what you should get. 177 00:13:00,936.094 --> 00:13:01,576.094 I'm like, Wow. 178 00:13:01,576.094 --> 00:13:08,606.094 I wish someone told me that moldy mushroom was a tasting note for vintage champagne. 179 00:13:08,826.094 --> 00:13:10,956.093 So, these are things that are supposed to be there. 180 00:13:11,816.094 --> 00:13:17,456.093 You know there is one thing it's supposed to be there, but I truly hate it is sparkling Shiraz. 181 00:13:17,956.093 --> 00:13:21,316.093 And there's a smell of sparkling Shiraz that is just pure. 182 00:13:21,336.093 --> 00:13:22,946.093 Like, and this is a very Australian thing. 183 00:13:22,946.093 --> 00:13:24,546.093 You don't see it all that often here. 184 00:13:25,96.093 --> 00:13:27,196.094 It's game, it's gaming it. 185 00:13:27,416.094 --> 00:13:30,546.094 And I, I, you know, even though it's supposed to be there, it freaks me out every time. 186 00:13:30,866.094 --> 00:13:33,746.093 Carbonated meat is not the thing. 187 00:13:34,156.094 --> 00:13:35,466.094 I really want to smell. 188 00:13:35,866.094 --> 00:13:38,896.094 But that's just, you're just talking specifically sparkling. 189 00:13:38,986.094 --> 00:13:39,186.094 Sure. 190 00:13:39,186.094 --> 00:13:40,676.094 A sparkling Shiraz from Australia. 191 00:13:40,856.094 --> 00:13:41,66.094 Yes. 192 00:13:41,106.094 --> 00:13:41,536.094 That's it. 193 00:13:41,626.094 --> 00:13:41,786.094 Okay. 194 00:13:41,826.094 --> 00:13:46,816.094 So then back to generally good aromas. 195 00:13:46,826.094 --> 00:13:50,566.094 Good aromas can be any of those autolyzed, nutty. 196 00:13:50,576.094 --> 00:13:51,46.094 Yes. 197 00:13:51,566.094 --> 00:13:51,966.094 Yes. 198 00:13:51,986.094 --> 00:13:54,266.094 I use macadamia nut a lot. 199 00:13:54,266.094 --> 00:13:56,86.094 I use brioche a lot. 200 00:13:56,106.094 --> 00:13:57,906.094 So that's so those are all good. 201 00:13:57,946.094 --> 00:14:04,486.093 What's something that you don't want to smell? Well, so when things have gone wrong, and this can happen, it's very rare. 202 00:14:04,486.094 --> 00:14:10,961.094 But if Analyzing yeast, you can actually trigger some lactic bacteria. 203 00:14:11,411.094 --> 00:14:13,481.093 this kind of fermentation, it's not like lactic. 204 00:14:14,6.094 --> 00:14:16,896.094 Fermentation in like Chardonnay's or regular wines. 205 00:14:17,266.094 --> 00:14:22,626.094 This is actually, it will turn into, it'll be a smell very similar to nail polish remover. 206 00:14:23,36.094 --> 00:14:23,816.094 Oh, acetone. 207 00:14:23,866.094 --> 00:14:24,916.093 Acetone, exactly. 208 00:14:24,946.093 --> 00:14:26,341.093 So it'll smell very similar to that. 209 00:14:26,666.093 --> 00:14:27,996.093 And that's a smell you know. 210 00:14:28,226.092 --> 00:14:28,576.092 Okay. 211 00:14:28,746.093 --> 00:14:34,455.993 But also some, you'll end up having some vinegar notes. 212 00:14:34,506.093 --> 00:14:39,946.093 It's again very rare because most bubble producers are incredibly detail oriented. 213 00:14:41,811.093 --> 00:14:49,231.093 It may happen that you might, you know, getting a bottle, like, and that's like one in a thousand, or one in even, I'd say even one in 5, 000 bottles that would happen. 214 00:14:49,941.093 --> 00:14:51,461.093 You know, I just thought of something. 215 00:14:51,471.093 --> 00:14:52,331.093 TCA infection. 216 00:14:53,31.093 --> 00:14:53,611.093 Yeah. 217 00:14:53,881.093 --> 00:14:55,791.093 You would think it'd be more likely. 218 00:14:55,821.093 --> 00:14:57,501.093 Yeah, you don't see it that often. 219 00:14:57,801.093 --> 00:15:12,221.093 Largely, I think, and here's the thing, because you get TCA largely due to sourcing your corks from a forest, from the oak forest that has been hit with some sort of pesticides. 220 00:15:13,521.093 --> 00:15:16,521.093 and that was something that was really big and that's less and less of a problem. 221 00:15:16,861.092 --> 00:15:26,81.093 But yeah, I know, I don't know if I've ever had, I think because the cork manufacturing, I don't think they're using from the same forests. 222 00:15:26,151.093 --> 00:15:26,941.093 Oh, that's so interesting. 223 00:15:26,991.093 --> 00:15:29,151.093 that's why I would have to go back and look. 224 00:15:29,201.093 --> 00:15:37,761.095 Because honestly, middle of the odds, we saw a lot more problems with TCA, with cork taint. 225 00:15:37,811.095 --> 00:15:38,121.095 Right. 226 00:15:38,131.095 --> 00:15:38,271.095 Okay. 227 00:15:38,321.096 --> 00:15:39,561.096 That, that's really been cleaned up. 228 00:15:39,571.096 --> 00:15:39,981.096 But yeah. 229 00:15:40,21.096 --> 00:15:40,571.096 consistently. 230 00:15:40,571.096 --> 00:15:46,271.096 It also might be something that, you know, largely because so few of our champagnes. 231 00:15:46,801.096 --> 00:15:55,141.096 Our sparkling wines are kept, you know, in under a cork because usually the most of their life, they're actually under a crown cap. 232 00:15:55,591.096 --> 00:16:03,131.0965 Typically, they're bottled courts by courts and then sent out and consumed within six months as the whole. 233 00:16:03,926.0965 --> 00:16:09,926.0965 Some people do love, love aging their bubbles, but typically if they're aging it, they're also upright. 234 00:16:09,926.0965 --> 00:16:12,176.0965 So it's not in contact with the wine itself. 235 00:16:14,176.0965 --> 00:16:30,136.0965 After wine school is proudly supported by the National Wine School, the gold standard, and professional wine certifications, whether you're dreaming of a career in the wine industry or just eager to take your wine knowledge to the next level, the National Wine School has you covered. 236 00:16:30,576.0965 --> 00:16:35,946.0965 Their programs are trusted, rigorous, and designed for aspiring wine pros like you. 237 00:16:39,936.0965 --> 00:16:43,276.0955 Why do they do that? the cork is really not to keep it in place. 238 00:16:43,276.0955 --> 00:16:43,956.0955 won't dry out. 239 00:16:43,966.0955 --> 00:16:44,236.0955 No. 240 00:16:44,266.0955 --> 00:16:45,366.0955 Well, it will eventually. 241 00:16:45,366.0955 --> 00:16:47,356.0955 It takes about three years for any cork to dry out. 242 00:16:48,86.0955 --> 00:16:52,136.0955 but if you put a bottle of sparkling on side one, it doesn't fit in your wine. 243 00:16:52,286.0955 --> 00:16:52,646.0955 Right. 244 00:16:52,656.0955 --> 00:16:53,696.0965 most people don't do that. 245 00:16:53,876.0965 --> 00:16:58,796.0965 It creates a weird differential pressure on the cork and you're more likely to get it blowing out. 246 00:16:59,656.0965 --> 00:17:13,806.0965 Oh I think that almost everyone, where you see and what, and it's also just with shipping and storage, everyone gonna, you know, maybe you might keep it upside down on the court if you're like, if you're in like a warehouse sit situation. 247 00:17:13,806.0965 --> 00:17:15,321.0965 But almost likely, almost all of them are up. 248 00:17:16,181.0965 --> 00:17:16,421.0965 Fascinating. 249 00:17:16,951.0965 --> 00:17:17,381.0965 Thank you. 250 00:17:17,531.0965 --> 00:17:19,841.0965 So kava then too. 251 00:17:19,931.0965 --> 00:17:22,601.0965 Well then I go to Lamar because I wanna show them where. 252 00:17:23,616.0965 --> 00:17:30,696.0965 Like, okay, if you really love champagne, but you don't want to spend champagne money, Loire is one of my favorite places. 253 00:17:30,696.0965 --> 00:17:48,386.0965 I, Alsace is fantastic, but for my money, it's just that, you know, when you're using Chenin Blanc as a grape, and it works so well and most of this wine is consumed by the French themselves and the French are Spectacularly picky about their bubbles. 254 00:17:48,816.0965 --> 00:17:56,526.0965 And they are the most, if you're successful bubbles producer in France, you are doing something exceptionally well. 255 00:17:56,576.0965 --> 00:18:00,6.0955 if you have very little export, mostly it's actually in country. 256 00:18:00,366.0965 --> 00:18:02,96.096 And so that's what I looked for actually. 257 00:18:02,96.096 --> 00:18:07,135.996 a producer that does a lot of business in France, but very little in the United States. 258 00:18:07,215.996 --> 00:18:07,665.996 Oh, interesting. 259 00:18:07,695.996 --> 00:18:09,350.996 yeah, that's one of the little hacks I have. 260 00:18:10,275.995 --> 00:18:15,685.996 Because they are so viciously and amazingly critical of Bubbles. 261 00:18:15,775.996 --> 00:18:17,485.996 Much more so than anybody else. 262 00:18:17,940.996 --> 00:18:20,370.996 So yeah, they're a country of bubble stocks. 263 00:18:20,990.996 --> 00:18:29,870.997 I mean, I know that, but that's so interesting for a producer that doesn't get much distribution that all of their allocation just stays in country. 264 00:18:29,880.998 --> 00:18:30,190.998 Yeah. 265 00:18:30,230.998 --> 00:18:32,480.997 So that's how, that is one of the great things. 266 00:18:32,490.997 --> 00:18:36,80.997 And It's usually a producer you've never heard of for obvious reasons. 267 00:18:36,80.997 --> 00:18:38,610.997 And they have very little, that makes so much sense now. 268 00:18:38,610.997 --> 00:18:38,930.997 Yeah. 269 00:18:39,110.997 --> 00:18:42,110.997 I'm just thinking of past champagnes I've had. 270 00:18:42,200.997 --> 00:18:42,650.997 Yeah. 271 00:18:42,700.997 --> 00:18:46,770.997 we very rarely drink anything from the bigger houses. 272 00:18:46,770.997 --> 00:18:47,920.997 Yeah, exactly. 273 00:18:47,970.997 --> 00:18:48,410.997 That's true. 274 00:18:48,410.997 --> 00:18:52,300.996 And that's one of our, that's one of the things we do at the school. 275 00:18:53,50.997 --> 00:18:56,370.997 To make things interesting, but also because let's see where you're getting the best wines. 276 00:18:56,380.997 --> 00:18:56,790.997 Yeah. 277 00:18:56,830.997 --> 00:19:02,390.997 It's the things that have minimal and it's not like they couldn't, it's there's no reason for them to. 278 00:19:02,430.997 --> 00:19:03,250.997 Yeah. 279 00:19:03,300.997 --> 00:19:03,750.997 Yeah. 280 00:19:04,0.997 --> 00:19:04,630.997 Oh, I love it. 281 00:19:04,670.997 --> 00:19:05,240.997 Yes. 282 00:19:05,400.997 --> 00:19:12,490.997 Then? Well, then I have to go to the United States and I go there and I want to, and I go and when I do the U. 283 00:19:12,490.997 --> 00:19:12,790.997 S. 284 00:19:12,830.997 --> 00:19:24,980.997 I will, sometimes I will do New Mexico, The New Mexico scene, they're sourcing so much outside of New Mexico now that I just, I don't want to bring that in because I have to explain that they used to use all New Mexican grapes. 285 00:19:25,10.997 --> 00:19:29,365.998 Now they don't display the amount that they're using because they're so large now. 286 00:19:29,840.998 --> 00:19:33,830.9995 so what I want to do is either go to one of the original places or one of the places that. 287 00:19:34,765.9995 --> 00:19:45,715.9995 The champagne houses, like the French champagne houses have gone and actually really rejuvenated the local area and the local economy, because they're going into these very cool weather climate regions, which. 288 00:19:46,690.9995 --> 00:19:54,410.9995 Up until recently, wines from California were all these big and monstrous wines and big and heavy, no matter whether they're red or white. 289 00:19:54,960.9995 --> 00:20:00,500.9985 And the only people who really cared about the cool climate wine regions were the champagne houses. 290 00:20:00,850.9995 --> 00:20:06,130.9995 So they went in and these amazing places that were making amazing Chardonnay and amazing Pinot. 291 00:20:06,500.9995 --> 00:20:08,950.9995 I always track them because if they're there. 292 00:20:09,260.9995 --> 00:20:15,660.9995 Within about five to 10 years, their investment means that the whole wine region is going to start thriving. 293 00:20:16,40.9995 --> 00:20:23,220.9995 And so you're going to start seeing great Pinos coming out of there largely because now they have, they can get distribution, there's support. 294 00:20:23,230.9995 --> 00:20:27,760.9995 People are going in and one of the places, the last remaining places. 295 00:20:28,380.9995 --> 00:20:38,730.9995 in California, in my mind, of that still is the undiscovered country where there's still like, if you wanted to start a winery, it's one of the two, like Caso is one, definitely. 296 00:20:39,10.9995 --> 00:20:40,820.999 Maybe Santa Barbara, maybe, but.
(20:41):
Property values do that, but Anderson, Anderson Valley, that's the place way north.
I mean, you're so far north that, you know, it's a kind of place where, yeah, it's going to feel like you're in, you know, in the boondocks because you are, you know, it's hard to get self service.
.0005service is going to be impossible. 300 00:20:58,831.0005 --> 00:20:58,981 Right.
You know, there's going to be one restaurant town and it's going to be a breakfast joint, you know, there's no nice hotels, you know, there's a, you know, there's a drive in and people will ask you when you drive in, they're like, who is that coming into our town? And so, that's kind of uncomfortable, but that is actually what you expect from agricultural land. 302 00:21:17,961.001 --> 00:21:25,576.001 You expect it to be very rural not without, you know, Any amenities and that's so Anderson Valley is that place interesting. 303 00:21:25,576.001 --> 00:21:27,466.001 And that is just beautiful. 304 00:21:27,466.001 --> 00:21:28,346.001 Amazing. 305 00:21:28,406.001 --> 00:21:29,426.0015 And they produce great wine. 306 00:21:29,496.0015 --> 00:21:32,196.0025 I really want to throw an accolades to Anderson Valley. 307 00:21:32,596.0025 --> 00:21:36,287.6858333 Cause the bubbles are just insanely good, insanely good. 308 00:21:36,892.6858333 --> 00:21:37,832.6858333 Fantastic. 309 00:21:37,952.6858333 --> 00:21:54,522.6858333 And especially for 30, like that's around, and right now, like, you know, that's, so we're just a high price point for many people, but it's not nearly, it's still about 20 to 50 percent less than you would expect of similar quality if it was from champagne. 310 00:21:55,112.6848333 --> 00:21:57,542.6858333 And so that's where I like, I like to land there. 311 00:21:57,772.6858333 --> 00:22:03,787.6858333 And that's like the kind of, here's, We're done with all the classical style of bubbles now. 312 00:22:04,37.6858333 --> 00:22:10,807.6858333 And that, that wine, of course, in the Ancestry Valley, they grow a lot of Pinot So that's your classic blend of Pinot and Chard. 313 00:22:10,817.6858333 --> 00:22:11,257.6858333 Mm hmm. 314 00:22:11,667.6848333 --> 00:22:11,797.6848333 Yeah. 315 00:22:11,997.6848333 --> 00:22:15,257.6853333 So 30 is a nice price point. 316 00:22:15,307.6853333 --> 00:22:16,567.6853333 oh God, yeah, for that one. 317 00:22:16,567.6853333 --> 00:22:19,430.9863333 Everything we were talking about before is like 20 or under. 318 00:22:19,460.9863333 --> 00:22:22,280.9863333 But this, yeah, for that, just a special bottle. 319 00:22:22,380.9863333 --> 00:22:23,390.9863333 That's a special bottle. 320 00:22:23,811.0863333 --> 00:22:24,0.8863333 Fantastic. 321 00:22:24,50.9863333 --> 00:22:27,90.9863333 yeah, and then we keep, but that and then we get to the weird stuff. 322 00:22:27,150.9863333 --> 00:22:37,119.2863333 So then I go back France and there is a bougie Is that how you pronounce it? I can never pronounce it correctly. 323 00:22:37,119.2863333 --> 00:22:38,975.8863333 And I should probably ask you this before. 324 00:22:38,975.9863333 --> 00:22:40,155.9863333 No, it's, it is. 325 00:22:40,165.9863333 --> 00:22:40,935.9863333 It's Bougie. 326 00:22:40,936.0863333 --> 00:22:41,465.8863333 It's Bougie. 327 00:22:41,465.9863333 --> 00:22:42,125.9863333 I thought so. 328 00:22:42,435.9863333 --> 00:22:43,435.9863333 But you look at me like. 329 00:22:43,545.9863333 --> 00:22:44,485.9863333 I know. 330 00:22:44,515.9863333 --> 00:22:45,805.9863333 I didn't know if you were making a joke. 331 00:22:46,255.9863333 --> 00:22:48,869.0859487 No, I'm not making a joke. 332 00:22:48,869.0859487 --> 00:22:50,538.9859487 Bougie Cerdan, yes. 333 00:22:50,539.0859487 --> 00:22:51,498.9859487 Bougie Cerdan, okay. 334 00:22:51,558.9859487 --> 00:22:52,714.8259487 So, We're writing it down. 335 00:22:53,444.9259487 --> 00:22:54,54.9259487 in the Alps. 336 00:22:54,404.9259487 --> 00:22:58,634.9259487 We're in the Alps, we're almost in Switzerland, you know, it's pretty far away from Alsace. 337 00:22:58,944.9259487 --> 00:23:12,684.9264487 It's south of Alsace, but it's also pretty, yeah, in the Jura ish, you know, not quite, but, you know, this is the area, just get people, it's so small there, people have no idea where this is, and their bubbles almost always are mythic. 338 00:23:12,899.9264487 --> 00:23:18,869.9264487 Method ancestral, which is, you know, where they don't remove any of the yeast before they send it off. 339 00:23:19,39.9254487 --> 00:23:23,669.9264487 So it has all the yeast in there, but also it's always a little bit of residual sugar in there. 340 00:23:24,119.9264487 --> 00:23:27,209.9264487 And also here's the weirdest thing, the red wines. 341 00:23:27,239.9264487 --> 00:23:27,769.9264487 Yes. 342 00:23:28,19.9264487 --> 00:23:29,489.9264487 red bubbles made with Gamay. 343 00:23:30,39.9264487 --> 00:23:30,469.9264487 Yeah. 344 00:23:30,519.9264487 --> 00:23:37,609.8264487 And so they're, Gamay is always the least understood grape. 345 00:23:37,739.8254487 --> 00:23:39,279.8254487 one of my favorite grapes. 346 00:23:40,539.8254487 --> 00:23:44,559.8259487 And yeah, as bubbles, it can be so weird. 347 00:23:44,639.8249487 --> 00:23:46,399.8259487 Like, it's a very divisive wine. 348 00:23:46,579.8259487 --> 00:23:47,729.8259487 And it's a natural wine. 349 00:23:47,729.8259487 --> 00:23:51,329.8259487 it's Method Ancestral, but it's very low intervention. 350 00:23:51,339.8259487 --> 00:23:51,939.8259487 Yes. 351 00:23:51,959.8259487 --> 00:23:54,347.3254487 And I'm using a different producer that I've used in the past. 352 00:23:54,347.3254487 --> 00:24:02,897.3244487 Because the producer that we, I've, we've used in the past, he's gone more and more residual sugar and weird as he went on. 353 00:24:03,397.3254487 --> 00:24:07,47.3254487 And as you notice, cause the RS is was getting pretty high, pretty high. 354 00:24:07,57.3244487 --> 00:24:07,337.3244487 Okay. 355 00:24:07,437.3244487 --> 00:24:07,837.3244487 It's funny. 356 00:24:07,837.3244487 --> 00:24:08,97.3239487 Yeah. 357 00:24:08,97.3239487 --> 00:24:13,797.3244487 That dude is, he's weird and lovely, but he's, wine's got from going weirder and weirder over the decades. 358 00:24:14,77.3244487 --> 00:24:17,887.3244487 and now it would just be super fun to finish really weird. 359 00:24:17,887.3244487 --> 00:24:20,227.3244487 It's an art, it's a semi sparkly. 360 00:24:20,227.3244487 --> 00:24:26,217.3244487 It's a bubbles, but it's Greek it's from the, I believe it's the Doria grave. 361 00:24:26,237.3244487 --> 00:24:37,7.3244487 It's an ancient grape variety white grape, but actually it's an orange wine, so it is a slightly sweet bubble from Greece that's also an orange wine. 362 00:24:37,7.3244487 --> 00:24:38,967.3244487 It was weird and lovely and fun. 363 00:24:39,37.4244487 --> 00:24:48,797.3244487 The thing you finish off with, you're like, Oh, so I go from class, you know, like building up to the classics and then get real weird, real fast. 364 00:24:49,117.3244487 --> 00:24:49,687.3244487 Love it. 365 00:24:49,727.3244487 --> 00:24:57,157.3254487 And just to see what people, I want people to see where the world is and like, bubbles, isn't just our classical, it's so many other things. 366 00:24:57,457.3254487 --> 00:24:59,807.3254487 And I want them to think about that as well. 367 00:25:00,177.3254487 --> 00:25:00,447.3254487 Yeah. 368 00:25:00,447.3254487 --> 00:25:09,462.3254487 I always get nervous when somebody says they really love bubbles or champagne and then it just becomes a very, Douchy I'm sorry. 369 00:25:09,462.3254487 --> 00:25:12,7.3254487 Well that's the thing about my class. 370 00:25:13,87.3254487 --> 00:25:15,707.3254487 You're much more intellectual than I am when you teach a class. 371 00:25:15,717.3254487 --> 00:25:17,367.3254487 I've already just taken notes from my class. 372 00:25:17,447.3254487 --> 00:25:18,977.3254487 I'm like, well, moose, that's right. 373 00:25:18,977.3254487 --> 00:25:19,527.3254487 I forgot about that. 374 00:25:21,667.3254487 --> 00:25:27,567.3254487 Can't you see terminology? So I really need to remember home back in key. 375 00:25:27,867.3244487 --> 00:25:28,997.3244487 Come on, you can do it. 376 00:25:28,997.4244487 --> 00:25:30,847.3244487 You can, you can be an adult. 377 00:25:30,897.4244487 --> 00:25:59,167.5234487 but with my clan, you know, like I always start off in such a ridiculously like funny grumpy way that it immediately tells me that whole idea of being snooty, you know, having going snob first and anything is just not gonna, it's not going to, Work in my classroom and the fact actually it's going to be a negative at the point first time in their life The whole idea of that bubbles, and this is, this class specifically is all about bubbles except for champagne. 378 00:25:59,257.5234487 --> 00:25:59,557.5234487 Right. 379 00:25:59,587.5234487 --> 00:26:03,367.5234487 So, you know, don't expect, you know, like snobbery here. 380 00:26:03,417.5234487 --> 00:26:10,647.5234487 It is about the joy of a very hard and very interesting type of wine. 381 00:26:10,697.5234487 --> 00:26:13,877.5234487 That just actually people don't drink enough of Agreed. 382 00:26:13,877.5234487 --> 00:26:14,237.5234487 Yeah. 383 00:26:14,297.5234487 --> 00:26:16,787.5234487 Except apparently I'm watching a TV show where, what the assassin. 384 00:26:18,257.5234487 --> 00:26:20,527.5234487 All they do is drink bubbles all the time. 385 00:26:20,537.5234487 --> 00:26:20,827.5234487 That's true. 386 00:26:20,927.5234487 --> 00:26:22,847.5234487 I think there's going to be a reveal at the end. 387 00:26:22,857.5234487 --> 00:26:24,477.5234487 The British sparkling wine industry. 388 00:26:24,547.5234487 --> 00:26:25,287.5219487 Well, No, yeah, no. 389 00:26:25,327.5219487 --> 00:26:27,367.4239487 Even if you're the sexiest assassin. 390 00:26:27,777.4239487 --> 00:26:30,707.4239487 All dreaded British bubbles. 391 00:26:30,717.4239487 --> 00:26:31,477.4239487 Absolutely. 392 00:26:31,607.4239487 --> 00:26:34,867.4239487 And, British bubbles, I would love to have that in this class, but they're so expensive right now. 393 00:26:35,17.4239487 --> 00:26:36,397.4239487 I was going to ask actually. 394 00:26:36,407.4239487 --> 00:26:37,197.4249487 I love them. 395 00:26:37,197.4249487 --> 00:26:44,217.4249487 around 50? Yeah, they started 50 ish and you pretty much, well, no, that, sorry, that was that was pre inflation price. 396 00:26:44,227.4249487 --> 00:26:50,87.4249487 They're around 55 now to 65 is now what you expect, which is insanely expensive. 397 00:26:50,87.4249487 --> 00:26:51,117.4249487 They're absolutely amazing. 398 00:26:51,307.4249487 --> 00:26:51,867.4249487 Yes. 399 00:26:51,917.4249487 --> 00:27:00,262.4249487 Once in a while though, You know, when they don't sell and they bring too much into the country and they don't sell that, I'll wait, I wait for them to get hit that discount. 400 00:27:00,652.4249487 --> 00:27:08,872.4249487 Like if people try to sell them at cost, so maybe I'll be able to pick them up for 40 and that's what I will buy a bunch of them so I can put them on classes. 401 00:27:09,962.4249487 --> 00:27:11,62.4249487 Well, thank you so much, Keith. 402 00:27:11,72.4249487 --> 00:27:11,822.4249487 I learned a lot. 403 00:27:12,122.4249487 --> 00:27:12,752.4249487 This was super fun. 404 00:27:13,102.4249487 --> 00:27:17,692.4249487 Hopefully, everyone else out there enjoyed this after school session. 405 00:27:17,732.4249487 --> 00:27:20,242.4249487 I love it because I got all my prep work done. 406 00:27:20,592.4239487 --> 00:27:21,526.2241987 Yeah, you sure did. 407 00:27:21,526.2241987 --> 00:27:23,588.1914487 didn't have to look at anything else. 408 00:27:24,298.2914487 --> 00:27:27,248.2914487 Thanks everyone for joining us and we'll see you next time. 409 00:27:27,428.2914487 --> 00:27:27,898.2914487 Oh, yes. 410 00:27:27,898.2914487 --> 00:27:30,858.2914487 And make sure you follow and tell people about this podcast. 411 00:27:31,198.2914487 --> 00:27:31,918.2904487 It grows. 412 00:27:31,938.2914487 --> 00:27:34,278.2914487 We do this because we love it and we love you. 413 00:27:34,628.2904487 --> 00:27:37,888.2904487 the more people are listening, the more fun, the bigger this is. 414 00:27:38,248.2904487 --> 00:27:42,148.2904487 And the more we can actually like get a more of a healthy love of wine. 415 00:27:42,698.2904487 --> 00:27:45,478.2904487 Out there that doesn't have to be snobbish, even if it's bubbles. 416 00:27:45,518.2904487 --> 00:27:48,258.2904487 It's like, you don't have to be a snob to love bubbles. 417 00:27:48,338.2904487 --> 00:27:48,868.2904487 Totally. 418 00:27:49,68.2904487 --> 00:27:49,508.2904487 All right. 419 00:27:49,938.2904487 --> 00:27:50,868.2904487 Bye friends. 420 00:27:50,988.2904487 --> 00:27:51,308.2904487 Bye bye. 421 00:27:54,578.2904487 --> 00:27:57,558.2904487 Thanks for spending time with us on After Wine School. 422 00:27:58,98.2904487 --> 00:28:05,208.2894487 If you enjoyed today's episode, hit subscribe so you never miss out on more wine wisdom, tips, and laughs.
Welcome to After Wine School, the podcast that demystifies wine and makes it approachable for everyone.
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(00:26):
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Hey folks, welcome to the After School Podcast.
I'm Keith Wallace with Alana Zerbe and what are we doing today? Today we're talking about bubbles, Keith.
(00:51):
Oh good, that's right.
It's good because I'm actually teaching that class, so I probably should get my head in gear.
Yeah, tell me about what you're gonna be talking about, what you're serving, All right, well, hey, first we should actually say the things that we have to say. 13 00:01:04,275.999 --> 00:01:05,505.999 We have to say them.
.9995Well, first off, there's the thing where you have to say well, first off we are supported by the National Wine School, which is fantastic. 15 00:01:13,550.9995 --> 00:01:15,220.9995 That's exactly right there. 16 00:01:15,390.9995 --> 00:01:24,530.9985 So all of the, whereas, where for carve outs, make sure they have no liability for anything. 17 00:01:24,810.9995 --> 00:01:25,240.9995 Okay. 18 00:01:25,250.9995 --> 00:01:31,280.9995 So they're, they're not, they can't be liable for anything because, because really, cause the truth is, is I'm studying this crap. 19 00:01:31,770.9995 --> 00:01:42,620.9995 the problem is, well, for, you know, of course for national white school and anyone else who actually doesn't like when I Get on my, my height worse is that I'm really starting this class off with how much I hate generic Prosecco. 20 00:01:42,770.9995 --> 00:01:43,940.9995 Not all Prosecco. 21 00:01:43,960.9995 --> 00:01:58,521.0005 I'm not going to say all Prosecco, there is a tiny percentage that's actually made well, but I deeply hate the, the volumes of cheap, awful Prosecco that just washes across the world. 22 00:01:58,881.0005 --> 00:01:59,111.0005 Okay. 23 00:01:59,111.0005 --> 00:02:02,241.0005 So let's practice some constructive criticism. 24 00:02:02,241.0005 --> 00:02:03,260.9995 Let's make a sandwich. 25 00:02:03,260.9995 --> 00:02:07,321.0005 So Let's say two nice things and then put the tough stuff in the middle. 26 00:02:07,421.0005 --> 00:02:08,721.0005 So two nice things. 27 00:02:09,81.0005 --> 00:02:11,11.0005 Okay, This is really going to be a shit sandwich. 28 00:02:11,866.0005 --> 00:02:16,540.9995 Okay, so the first nice thing is the bottles are recyclable. 29 00:02:17,65.9995 --> 00:02:21,265.9995 They're not No, I didn't recycle. 30 00:02:21,265.9995 --> 00:02:23,460.9995 Like bottles are not being recycled currently. 31 00:02:23,520.9995 --> 00:02:23,880.9995 Oh, all right. 32 00:02:23,880.9995 --> 00:02:24,300.9995 Sorry. 33 00:02:24,600.9995 --> 00:02:24,930.9995 Alright. 34 00:02:25,30.9995 --> 00:02:26,620.9995 Okay, I'll give you one. 35 00:02:26,700.9995 --> 00:02:27,130.9995 Okay, good. 36 00:02:27,140.9995 --> 00:02:28,540.9995 a litmus test. 37 00:02:28,580.9995 --> 00:02:29,90.9995 Yeah. 38 00:02:29,620.9995 --> 00:02:32,910.9995 For whether you will like a person or not, whether they drink. 39 00:02:32,961.0995 --> 00:02:35,531.1005 Hey, you like Prosecco, I'm going to hate you. 40 00:02:35,911.1005 --> 00:02:36,641.0995 I don't know. 41 00:02:36,641.1995 --> 00:02:44,51.0995 I mean, people like it because it's the thing they've been introduced to and it's like in their price point and there's so much of it. 42 00:02:44,446.1005 --> 00:02:45,616.1005 And there's so much marketing. 43 00:02:45,616.1005 --> 00:02:47,476.1005 I don't blame them for liking it. 44 00:02:47,476.1005 --> 00:02:51,346.1005 I just, I wanna introduce them to this idea that it's really not great. 45 00:02:51,896.1005 --> 00:02:52,226.1005 Okay. 46 00:02:52,226.1005 --> 00:02:53,971.1005 how are you gonna do that? Well, I'm gonna say this. 47 00:02:53,971.1005 --> 00:02:55,331.1005 Yeah, I'm gonna, it's not great. 48 00:02:55,461.1005 --> 00:02:56,136.1005 I'm gonna serve them. 49 00:02:56,376.1005 --> 00:02:58,356.1005 One of the most generic, sad. 50 00:02:58,356.1005 --> 00:02:59,16.1005 I'm gonna, okay. 51 00:02:59,286.1005 --> 00:03:00,306.1005 Some of you're gonna like this. 52 00:03:00,306.1005 --> 00:03:03,156.1005 Mm-hmm They're gonna like, so they're wrong and I'm not gonna be Yuck. 53 00:03:03,156.1005 --> 00:03:03,486.1005 They young. 54 00:03:03,656.1005 --> 00:03:27,176.1005 Now I'm definitely not going to do that, but I am going to point out that if what we really want is like, what do we mean by good quality and what is it you're actually getting with these generic Charlotte produced, you know, these tank made inexpensively made Prosecco's and what are we getting? What is it that we should be looking for when we're looking for good? Cause that's the thing. 55 00:03:27,176.1005 --> 00:03:29,546.1005 People, they like things. 56 00:03:29,866.1005 --> 00:03:33,226.1005 But they don't know what to look for other than this tastes good. 57 00:03:33,926.1005 --> 00:03:44,486.0995 I also think Prosecco being that it's an Italian wine, people fall in love with Italian wines and just kind of anything under that heading gets a lot of love. 58 00:03:44,546.1005 --> 00:03:45,796.1005 It really does. 59 00:03:45,856.0995 --> 00:03:49,166.1 And which is funny, especially, especially on the East coast. 60 00:03:49,166.1 --> 00:03:51,256.1005 Like there's just an immediate love affair. 61 00:03:51,266.1005 --> 00:03:52,576.1005 And I understand that too. 62 00:03:53,31.1005 --> 00:04:07,691.1005 You know, having worked in Italy, I got away with a lot of stuff, you know, I mean that I know, like, I mean, there were wines I produced that should not have been given the ratings or the price points they were like, I know that, but so thank you. 63 00:04:08,21.1005 --> 00:04:08,301.1005 But. 64 00:04:08,801.1005 --> 00:04:47,876.1005 Yeah, it's hard, you know, you want to get them step away from that and just say, Hey, what about thinking about like, what are we, what does a great bubble, how does that experience, how is it supposed to unfold, how, what does really good bubbles, what does somebody who makes bubble sparkling wine from anywhere, what are they hoping to do? What do Prosecco producers wish they were doing? And then we get talked about that, you know, and then, you know, how they are sort of caught, really caught in this real vice of they have to produce a very high quantity of wines and a very low price. 65 00:04:47,886.0995 --> 00:04:56,226.1005 Like their margins are tiny and, but nobody's willing to spend 30 for Prosecco where people are happy to spend. 66 00:04:56,571.1005 --> 00:04:59,36.1005 40, 50, a hundred dollars on champagne. 67 00:04:59,36.1005 --> 00:05:04,526.1005 So they're really caught and just allow people to get some ideas. 68 00:05:04,576.1005 --> 00:05:05,416.1005 But I'm starting there. 69 00:05:05,596.0995 --> 00:05:10,206.1005 My hate on Prosecco is where we start and I'm going to go in hard and then I'm going to be nice. 70 00:05:10,276.1005 --> 00:05:13,216.1005 I'm going to do that thing where I'm going to go start real mean. 71 00:05:13,486.0995 --> 00:05:15,921.0005 And then I'm going to get nice just so that people. 72 00:05:16,921.1005 --> 00:05:19,691.1005 Cause I have them for about an hour and a half, two hours. 73 00:05:19,691.1005 --> 00:05:23,471.1005 And so I know that I can break them a little bit in the beginning and then build them back up. 74 00:05:23,561.1005 --> 00:05:26,871.1005 And I can make them laugh, show those really cool stuff. 75 00:05:26,931.1005 --> 00:05:29,601.1005 And then some super weird stuff at the end, like super weird. 76 00:05:29,941.0995 --> 00:05:30,671.1005 Well, take me through it. 77 00:05:30,671.1005 --> 00:05:37,741.1005 So how are you going to demonstrate to them your, thesis statement? Well, yeah. 78 00:05:37,741.1005 --> 00:05:41,621.1005 So the first, it's just generic Prosecco's sadness in the glass. 79 00:05:42,536.1005 --> 00:05:47,356.1005 And yeah, I don't usually, in a wine class, the whole idea is to show them great examples. 80 00:05:47,776.1005 --> 00:05:51,446.1005 But this is the greatest example of Prosecco because it's sadness. 81 00:05:52,266.1005 --> 00:05:57,46.1005 And then what I'm going to do is I'm going to show them a great Cava, right after that, at about the same price point. 82 00:05:57,696.1005 --> 00:06:00,86.0985 But what is it about the Prosecco? oh, sorry. 83 00:06:00,136.0995 --> 00:06:01,396.0995 Really simple flavor. 84 00:06:01,406.0995 --> 00:06:04,656.0995 So first off, very simple lemon lime. 85 00:06:04,706.0995 --> 00:06:07,126.0995 Flavors in very large bulbs. 86 00:06:07,516.0995 --> 00:06:15,666.0995 and I assume having been in the industry for long enough, I know what I have never had this specific one. 87 00:06:16,16.0985 --> 00:06:20,906.0985 Cause I would never want to have this ever again, or even once, but it's going to be metallic. 88 00:06:21,526.0985 --> 00:06:31,886.0975 It's going to have a metallic, you know, that really high acid, low pH, almost like an oily note then it's going to just be big fat bubbles and then it's just going to be gone. 89 00:06:31,946.0985 --> 00:06:32,516.0975 Thank you. 90 00:06:32,526.0975 --> 00:06:41,366.0985 So yes, the bubbles, I think when I've taught this class in the past, you can really see the quality of the bubbles from this class. 91 00:06:42,196.0985 --> 00:06:46,406.0985 As you move on, you will notice they get more tightly firm. 92 00:06:46,436.0985 --> 00:06:47,966.0985 There's better moves there. 93 00:06:48,466.0985 --> 00:06:51,586.0985 That's, yeah, they become more brisk and lively. 94 00:06:51,596.0985 --> 00:06:52,856.0975 So that's a nice thing. 95 00:06:52,906.0985 --> 00:06:53,496.0985 Exactly. 96 00:06:53,496.0985 --> 00:07:21,631.0985 You know, and I don't, you're much more sophisticated because my class is going to be more, Because I just, I, I, I say they're like laser like pew pew, and the more pew pew you have, the more, the better it is, you know, so, like, you picture, you know, it's, you know, you're thinking Star Wars, and, you know, you're thinking, you know, here's the stormtroopers, they just, very lazy, shooting all over the place, not very good, but then, you know, and then, but then you get, you know, you know, You know, you get the Tie Fighters in there and it's a lot of, like, laser battles and things. 97 00:07:22,71.0985 --> 00:07:27,361.0985 And that's a better, that's a, that's a great champagne, where you have very fine laser shots. 98 00:07:28,261.0975 --> 00:07:33,853.1575 And there, Well, I think that they're, I think they may like mine because I'm not nearly as classy. 99 00:07:33,853.1575 --> 00:07:35,583.1585 a lot of notes in my classes. 100 00:07:35,643.2585 --> 00:07:39,753.1585 But people love the pew pew. 101 00:07:41,463.1585 --> 00:07:41,493.1585 Okay. 102 00:07:43,543.1585 --> 00:07:50,883.1585 So then, so it's simplicity, like not complexity, like some kind of metallic. 103 00:07:51,393.1585 --> 00:07:52,623.158 And it's actually factory made. 104 00:07:52,623.158 --> 00:07:54,673.1575 Like, this is how you can tell a factory made wine. 105 00:07:54,973.1585 --> 00:07:58,103.1575 Like, this is not a wine that was made with care. 106 00:07:58,113.1575 --> 00:08:04,763.1575 This is a wine that's been pushed out in millions of bottles every year consistently over time. 107 00:08:05,533.1575 --> 00:08:16,983.1565 And as a rule of thumb too, because bubbles are hard to make, and usually there's such small production that you only see them a few times a year, like really good stuff. 108 00:08:16,983.1565 --> 00:08:19,703.1565 You might see it for like maybe four or five months at most. 109 00:08:19,983.1565 --> 00:08:21,733.1565 And that's gone out of the marketplace. 110 00:08:21,763.1565 --> 00:08:27,923.1565 Whereas some of these Prosecco's like they're around, I mean, 365 days out of the year. 111 00:08:27,933.1565 --> 00:08:35,93.1565 And you kind of wonder like, how is that possible? You know, how, you know, they are being made like Coca Cola, like they're just large and they are. 112 00:08:35,93.1565 --> 00:08:36,653.1555 And actually the systems are very similar. 113 00:08:36,653.1565 --> 00:08:40,183.1565 Actually the engineering systems are very similar to a bottler system. 114 00:08:40,213.1555 --> 00:08:40,773.1555 You could actually. 115 00:08:41,828.1565 --> 00:08:42,188.1565 Yeah. 116 00:08:42,218.1565 --> 00:08:45,138.1565 I mean, you can have a Prosecco bottle or every towel. 117 00:08:45,368.1565 --> 00:08:45,778.1565 Wow. 118 00:08:45,878.1565 --> 00:08:46,268.1565 Yeah. 119 00:08:46,428.1565 --> 00:08:46,688.1565 Okay. 120 00:08:46,688.1565 --> 00:08:48,698.1565 So then you're moving on to Kava. 121 00:08:49,298.1565 --> 00:08:52,268.1565 Then I'm moving to Kava and Kava, cause this one is great. 122 00:08:52,358.1555 --> 00:08:54,618.1555 Cause what it is, it's vintage, a little older. 123 00:08:54,618.2555 --> 00:08:55,848.1545 It's been on the knees for a long time. 124 00:08:57,573.1555 --> 00:09:05,433.1555 My guess, and this is what I am planning, I'm planning that the majority of people who already love Bubbles and shampoos, they're gonna go, Oh, this is amazing. 125 00:09:05,493.1545 --> 00:09:10,223.1555 Right? So they're gonna be like, oh my god, that same price point, this much better. 126 00:09:10,223.1555 --> 00:09:19,323.1555 So those people will be, I'll have them, but the everyone else, like the other half of the class who really don't know, like, what they like and what's good, because that's the idea. 127 00:09:19,953.1555 --> 00:09:26,473.1555 They're gonna say, oh, This is weird because it was on Lee's for like two years minimum. 128 00:09:27,143.1555 --> 00:09:33,93.1555 And so that leasiness is gonna give it, you know, it's gonna give it that nice pastry note, but it's also gonna give it a funky note. 129 00:09:33,653.1555 --> 00:09:38,423.1555 So I wanted to actually give them a little whiplash and say simple complex. 130 00:09:38,423.1555 --> 00:09:40,43.1555 Now, I'm not expecting you to like this. 131 00:09:40,43.2555 --> 00:09:43,933.1555 This is, this is, as a first time out, this is gonna be a little weird. 132 00:09:43,933.1555 --> 00:09:47,803.1555 Like if you're getting this, awesome, but I don't expect you to. 133 00:09:48,358.1555 --> 00:09:53,358.1555 Because I don't expect, I want to give them a little bit of a whiplash, like, Oh, how different it can be. 134 00:09:53,358.1555 --> 00:09:55,228.1555 And I want them to recognize difference right away. 135 00:09:55,508.1555 --> 00:09:57,838.1545 And when they're tasting, they're like, Oh, I can tell the difference. 136 00:09:58,128.1555 --> 00:10:06,708.1545 And so I get them right away, especially people who don't drink wine that much, or they're not used to thinking about what they're doing, that will capture them. 137 00:10:07,418.1545 --> 00:10:13,488.1555 So that way we'll get, I should have almost the entire class thinking how I want them to think. 138 00:10:14,8.1555 --> 00:10:20,928.1555 about focusing on flavors and smells and how to determine like you, the different elements of sparkling wines. 139 00:10:20,948.1555 --> 00:10:27,948.155 What, what's a good smell? What do we consider fine? What's okay? Even if it's weird, because there's a lot. 140 00:10:27,988.155 --> 00:10:28,158.155 Yeah. 141 00:10:28,178.156 --> 00:10:31,298.155 There's a lot of weird, wonderful smells and bubbles. 142 00:10:31,298.156 --> 00:10:33,48.155 And some of which. 143 00:10:33,513.156 --> 00:10:45,741.095 there's a lot of them really are like they're Could you give us a couple since we're Oh, like, of like what shouldn't be there or what should be there? Oh, well, what should be there? Okay, here's the, here's the weirdest thing is good vintage champagnes. 144 00:10:46,141.096 --> 00:10:49,321.096 Like ones that have been held on lees in the bottle. 145 00:10:49,881.096 --> 00:10:52,261.096 let me back up, explain what lees is for one second. 146 00:10:52,261.096 --> 00:10:59,841.096 Lee's is actually the yeast that in the fermentation it's in there largely because it's gone through a fermentation in the bottle. 147 00:10:59,871.096 --> 00:11:03,781.095 And so the yeast it's all dead now because it's gone through fermentation. 148 00:11:04,51.096 --> 00:11:15,921.096 It's created carbon dioxide along with alcohol and that's now dissolved into the wine that gives us bubbles, right? So that carbon dioxide dissolved forced in because it's under so much pressure in that bottle. 149 00:11:16,656.096 --> 00:11:28,266.096 Now all that lees, now, so they let that lees sit in there for years and that yeast, which is the lees, starts to decompose, which we say autolyze. 150 00:11:28,796.095 --> 00:11:30,456.096 And so that means it's breaking apart. 151 00:11:30,456.096 --> 00:11:35,956.096 It's breaking apart into tiny little, you know, subsections of carbohydrates and sugars. 152 00:11:36,286.096 --> 00:11:42,266.096 And there, these things are going to add texture, like a richness to the wine, but it's also going to give it flavor. 153 00:11:42,286.096 --> 00:11:46,236.096 And so over time, the first flavors that you start noticing are that. 154 00:11:46,296.196 --> 00:11:55,661.096 Like nuttiness, maybe a toastiness, bread, but then it starts getting As it sits in there, it starts to decay, because that's really what's happening. 155 00:11:55,661.096 --> 00:11:59,801.096 It's, it's carbohydrates, parts of carbohydrates decaying. 156 00:12:00,171.096 --> 00:12:02,131.096 Then it starts tasting like mushrooms. 157 00:12:02,191.096 --> 00:12:02,871.095 Oh, decomp. 158 00:12:02,941.095 --> 00:12:03,661.096 Decomp, it's decomp. 159 00:12:04,271.096 --> 00:12:06,191.096 Oh yeah, it starts getting real funky. 160 00:12:06,451.096 --> 00:12:11,945.996 If it sits on the leaves for like 10 years, which there are vintage champagnes that sit on. 161 00:12:12,206.096 --> 00:12:13,456.096 They are intense. 162 00:12:13,666.096 --> 00:12:17,156.096 And I had one of those unfortunately for the first time in a class. 163 00:12:17,776.096 --> 00:12:20,256.096 And when I had that happen, I may have told the story before. 164 00:12:20,256.096 --> 00:12:24,356.0955 It's my, my favorite stories of me totally screwing up as a teacher. 165 00:12:24,356.0955 --> 00:12:26,906.095 And this was early on, this is 20 years ago. 166 00:12:27,556.095 --> 00:12:28,276.096 I opened it up. 167 00:12:28,286.095 --> 00:12:30,326.095 I had never had one before. 168 00:12:30,426.095 --> 00:12:40,946.095 Trying to keep my shit together in class while all I'm smelling is homeless toes and a wine that I just spent, you know, 20 years ago over a hundred dollars on. 169 00:12:41,366.095 --> 00:12:43,736.095 And you know, for today's dollar, that'd be like three, four hundred dollars. 170 00:12:43,736.095 --> 00:12:49,566.095 So I now, that was a hard lesson to learn in the middle of class. 171 00:12:49,726.095 --> 00:12:50,726.095 But it was correct. 172 00:12:50,806.095 --> 00:12:51,806.095 Oh, 100 percent correct. 173 00:12:51,806.095 --> 00:12:52,136.095 Yeah. 174 00:12:52,616.094 --> 00:12:54,246.093 At that moment I had no idea. 175 00:12:54,256.094 --> 00:12:56,496.093 And of course I just sort of said it was correct. 176 00:12:56,546.094 --> 00:13:00,936.094 and then I just really called people and asked, you know, and they're like, yeah, that's exactly what you should get. 177 00:13:00,936.094 --> 00:13:01,576.094 I'm like, Wow. 178 00:13:01,576.094 --> 00:13:08,606.094 I wish someone told me that moldy mushroom was a tasting note for vintage champagne. 179 00:13:08,826.094 --> 00:13:10,956.093 So, these are things that are supposed to be there. 180 00:13:11,816.094 --> 00:13:17,456.093 You know there is one thing it's supposed to be there, but I truly hate it is sparkling Shiraz. 181 00:13:17,956.093 --> 00:13:21,316.093 And there's a smell of sparkling Shiraz that is just pure. 182 00:13:21,336.093 --> 00:13:22,946.093 Like, and this is a very Australian thing. 183 00:13:22,946.093 --> 00:13:24,546.093 You don't see it all that often here. 184 00:13:25,96.093 --> 00:13:27,196.094 It's game, it's gaming it. 185 00:13:27,416.094 --> 00:13:30,546.094 And I, I, you know, even though it's supposed to be there, it freaks me out every time. 186 00:13:30,866.094 --> 00:13:33,746.093 Carbonated meat is not the thing. 187 00:13:34,156.094 --> 00:13:35,466.094 I really want to smell. 188 00:13:35,866.094 --> 00:13:38,896.094 But that's just, you're just talking specifically sparkling. 189 00:13:38,986.094 --> 00:13:39,186.094 Sure. 190 00:13:39,186.094 --> 00:13:40,676.094 A sparkling Shiraz from Australia. 191 00:13:40,856.094 --> 00:13:41,66.094 Yes. 192 00:13:41,106.094 --> 00:13:41,536.094 That's it. 193 00:13:41,626.094 --> 00:13:41,786.094 Okay. 194 00:13:41,826.094 --> 00:13:46,816.094 So then back to generally good aromas. 195 00:13:46,826.094 --> 00:13:50,566.094 Good aromas can be any of those autolyzed, nutty. 196 00:13:50,576.094 --> 00:13:51,46.094 Yes. 197 00:13:51,566.094 --> 00:13:51,966.094 Yes. 198 00:13:51,986.094 --> 00:13:54,266.094 I use macadamia nut a lot. 199 00:13:54,266.094 --> 00:13:56,86.094 I use brioche a lot. 200 00:13:56,106.094 --> 00:13:57,906.094 So that's so those are all good. 201 00:13:57,946.094 --> 00:14:04,486.093 What's something that you don't want to smell? Well, so when things have gone wrong, and this can happen, it's very rare. 202 00:14:04,486.094 --> 00:14:10,961.094 But if Analyzing yeast, you can actually trigger some lactic bacteria. 203 00:14:11,411.094 --> 00:14:13,481.093 this kind of fermentation, it's not like lactic. 204 00:14:14,6.094 --> 00:14:16,896.094 Fermentation in like Chardonnay's or regular wines. 205 00:14:17,266.094 --> 00:14:22,626.094 This is actually, it will turn into, it'll be a smell very similar to nail polish remover. 206 00:14:23,36.094 --> 00:14:23,816.094 Oh, acetone. 207 00:14:23,866.094 --> 00:14:24,916.093 Acetone, exactly. 208 00:14:24,946.093 --> 00:14:26,341.093 So it'll smell very similar to that. 209 00:14:26,666.093 --> 00:14:27,996.093 And that's a smell you know. 210 00:14:28,226.092 --> 00:14:28,576.092 Okay. 211 00:14:28,746.093 --> 00:14:34,455.993 But also some, you'll end up having some vinegar notes. 212 00:14:34,506.093 --> 00:14:39,946.093 It's again very rare because most bubble producers are incredibly detail oriented. 213 00:14:41,811.093 --> 00:14:49,231.093 It may happen that you might, you know, getting a bottle, like, and that's like one in a thousand, or one in even, I'd say even one in 5, 000 bottles that would happen. 214 00:14:49,941.093 --> 00:14:51,461.093 You know, I just thought of something. 215 00:14:51,471.093 --> 00:14:52,331.093 TCA infection. 216 00:14:53,31.093 --> 00:14:53,611.093 Yeah. 217 00:14:53,881.093 --> 00:14:55,791.093 You would think it'd be more likely. 218 00:14:55,821.093 --> 00:14:57,501.093 Yeah, you don't see it that often. 219 00:14:57,801.093 --> 00:15:12,221.093 Largely, I think, and here's the thing, because you get TCA largely due to sourcing your corks from a forest, from the oak forest that has been hit with some sort of pesticides. 220 00:15:13,521.093 --> 00:15:16,521.093 and that was something that was really big and that's less and less of a problem. 221 00:15:16,861.092 --> 00:15:26,81.093 But yeah, I know, I don't know if I've ever had, I think because the cork manufacturing, I don't think they're using from the same forests. 222 00:15:26,151.093 --> 00:15:26,941.093 Oh, that's so interesting. 223 00:15:26,991.093 --> 00:15:29,151.093 that's why I would have to go back and look. 224 00:15:29,201.093 --> 00:15:37,761.095 Because honestly, middle of the odds, we saw a lot more problems with TCA, with cork taint. 225 00:15:37,811.095 --> 00:15:38,121.095 Right. 226 00:15:38,131.095 --> 00:15:38,271.095 Okay. 227 00:15:38,321.096 --> 00:15:39,561.096 That, that's really been cleaned up. 228 00:15:39,571.096 --> 00:15:39,981.096 But yeah. 229 00:15:40,21.096 --> 00:15:40,571.096 consistently. 230 00:15:40,571.096 --> 00:15:46,271.096 It also might be something that, you know, largely because so few of our champagnes. 231 00:15:46,801.096 --> 00:15:55,141.096 Our sparkling wines are kept, you know, in under a cork because usually the most of their life, they're actually under a crown cap. 232 00:15:55,591.096 --> 00:16:03,131.0965 Typically, they're bottled courts by courts and then sent out and consumed within six months as the whole. 233 00:16:03,926.0965 --> 00:16:09,926.0965 Some people do love, love aging their bubbles, but typically if they're aging it, they're also upright. 234 00:16:09,926.0965 --> 00:16:12,176.0965 So it's not in contact with the wine itself. 235 00:16:14,176.0965 --> 00:16:30,136.0965 After wine school is proudly supported by the National Wine School, the gold standard, and professional wine certifications, whether you're dreaming of a career in the wine industry or just eager to take your wine knowledge to the next level, the National Wine School has you covered. 236 00:16:30,576.0965 --> 00:16:35,946.0965 Their programs are trusted, rigorous, and designed for aspiring wine pros like you. 237 00:16:39,936.0965 --> 00:16:43,276.0955 Why do they do that? the cork is really not to keep it in place. 238 00:16:43,276.0955 --> 00:16:43,956.0955 won't dry out. 239 00:16:43,966.0955 --> 00:16:44,236.0955 No. 240 00:16:44,266.0955 --> 00:16:45,366.0955 Well, it will eventually. 241 00:16:45,366.0955 --> 00:16:47,356.0955 It takes about three years for any cork to dry out. 242 00:16:48,86.0955 --> 00:16:52,136.0955 but if you put a bottle of sparkling on side one, it doesn't fit in your wine. 243 00:16:52,286.0955 --> 00:16:52,646.0955 Right. 244 00:16:52,656.0955 --> 00:16:53,696.0965 most people don't do that. 245 00:16:53,876.0965 --> 00:16:58,796.0965 It creates a weird differential pressure on the cork and you're more likely to get it blowing out. 246 00:16:59,656.0965 --> 00:17:13,806.0965 Oh I think that almost everyone, where you see and what, and it's also just with shipping and storage, everyone gonna, you know, maybe you might keep it upside down on the court if you're like, if you're in like a warehouse sit situation. 247 00:17:13,806.0965 --> 00:17:15,321.0965 But almost likely, almost all of them are up. 248 00:17:16,181.0965 --> 00:17:16,421.0965 Fascinating. 249 00:17:16,951.0965 --> 00:17:17,381.0965 Thank you. 250 00:17:17,531.0965 --> 00:17:19,841.0965 So kava then too. 251 00:17:19,931.0965 --> 00:17:22,601.0965 Well then I go to Lamar because I wanna show them where. 252 00:17:23,616.0965 --> 00:17:30,696.0965 Like, okay, if you really love champagne, but you don't want to spend champagne money, Loire is one of my favorite places. 253 00:17:30,696.0965 --> 00:17:48,386.0965 I, Alsace is fantastic, but for my money, it's just that, you know, when you're using Chenin Blanc as a grape, and it works so well and most of this wine is consumed by the French themselves and the French are Spectacularly picky about their bubbles. 254 00:17:48,816.0965 --> 00:17:56,526.0965 And they are the most, if you're successful bubbles producer in France, you are doing something exceptionally well. 255 00:17:56,576.0965 --> 00:18:00,6.0955 if you have very little export, mostly it's actually in country. 256 00:18:00,366.0965 --> 00:18:02,96.096 And so that's what I looked for actually. 257 00:18:02,96.096 --> 00:18:07,135.996 a producer that does a lot of business in France, but very little in the United States. 258 00:18:07,215.996 --> 00:18:07,665.996 Oh, interesting. 259 00:18:07,695.996 --> 00:18:09,350.996 yeah, that's one of the little hacks I have. 260 00:18:10,275.995 --> 00:18:15,685.996 Because they are so viciously and amazingly critical of Bubbles. 261 00:18:15,775.996 --> 00:18:17,485.996 Much more so than anybody else. 262 00:18:17,940.996 --> 00:18:20,370.996 So yeah, they're a country of bubble stocks. 263 00:18:20,990.996 --> 00:18:29,870.997 I mean, I know that, but that's so interesting for a producer that doesn't get much distribution that all of their allocation just stays in country. 264 00:18:29,880.998 --> 00:18:30,190.998 Yeah. 265 00:18:30,230.998 --> 00:18:32,480.997 So that's how, that is one of the great things. 266 00:18:32,490.997 --> 00:18:36,80.997 And It's usually a producer you've never heard of for obvious reasons. 267 00:18:36,80.997 --> 00:18:38,610.997 And they have very little, that makes so much sense now. 268 00:18:38,610.997 --> 00:18:38,930.997 Yeah. 269 00:18:39,110.997 --> 00:18:42,110.997 I'm just thinking of past champagnes I've had. 270 00:18:42,200.997 --> 00:18:42,650.997 Yeah. 271 00:18:42,700.997 --> 00:18:46,770.997 we very rarely drink anything from the bigger houses. 272 00:18:46,770.997 --> 00:18:47,920.997 Yeah, exactly. 273 00:18:47,970.997 --> 00:18:48,410.997 That's true. 274 00:18:48,410.997 --> 00:18:52,300.996 And that's one of our, that's one of the things we do at the school. 275 00:18:53,50.997 --> 00:18:56,370.997 To make things interesting, but also because let's see where you're getting the best wines. 276 00:18:56,380.997 --> 00:18:56,790.997 Yeah. 277 00:18:56,830.997 --> 00:19:02,390.997 It's the things that have minimal and it's not like they couldn't, it's there's no reason for them to. 278 00:19:02,430.997 --> 00:19:03,250.997 Yeah. 279 00:19:03,300.997 --> 00:19:03,750.997 Yeah. 280 00:19:04,0.997 --> 00:19:04,630.997 Oh, I love it. 281 00:19:04,670.997 --> 00:19:05,240.997 Yes. 282 00:19:05,400.997 --> 00:19:12,490.997 Then? Well, then I have to go to the United States and I go there and I want to, and I go and when I do the U. 283 00:19:12,490.997 --> 00:19:12,790.997 S. 284 00:19:12,830.997 --> 00:19:24,980.997 I will, sometimes I will do New Mexico, The New Mexico scene, they're sourcing so much outside of New Mexico now that I just, I don't want to bring that in because I have to explain that they used to use all New Mexican grapes. 285 00:19:25,10.997 --> 00:19:29,365.998 Now they don't display the amount that they're using because they're so large now. 286 00:19:29,840.998 --> 00:19:33,830.9995 so what I want to do is either go to one of the original places or one of the places that. 287 00:19:34,765.9995 --> 00:19:45,715.9995 The champagne houses, like the French champagne houses have gone and actually really rejuvenated the local area and the local economy, because they're going into these very cool weather climate regions, which. 288 00:19:46,690.9995 --> 00:19:54,410.9995 Up until recently, wines from California were all these big and monstrous wines and big and heavy, no matter whether they're red or white. 289 00:19:54,960.9995 --> 00:20:00,500.9985 And the only people who really cared about the cool climate wine regions were the champagne houses. 290 00:20:00,850.9995 --> 00:20:06,130.9995 So they went in and these amazing places that were making amazing Chardonnay and amazing Pinot. 291 00:20:06,500.9995 --> 00:20:08,950.9995 I always track them because if they're there. 292 00:20:09,260.9995 --> 00:20:15,660.9995 Within about five to 10 years, their investment means that the whole wine region is going to start thriving. 293 00:20:16,40.9995 --> 00:20:23,220.9995 And so you're going to start seeing great Pinos coming out of there largely because now they have, they can get distribution, there's support. 294 00:20:23,230.9995 --> 00:20:27,760.9995 People are going in and one of the places, the last remaining places. 295 00:20:28,380.9995 --> 00:20:38,730.9995 in California, in my mind, of that still is the undiscovered country where there's still like, if you wanted to start a winery, it's one of the two, like Caso is one, definitely. 296 00:20:39,10.9995 --> 00:20:40,820.999 Maybe Santa Barbara, maybe, but.
(20:41):
Property values do that, but Anderson, Anderson Valley, that's the place way north.
I mean, you're so far north that, you know, it's a kind of place where, yeah, it's going to feel like you're in, you know, in the boondocks because you are, you know, it's hard to get self service.
.0005service is going to be impossible. 300 00:20:58,831.0005 --> 00:20:58,981 Right.
You know, there's going to be one restaurant town and it's going to be a breakfast joint, you know, there's no nice hotels, you know, there's a, you know, there's a drive in and people will ask you when you drive in, they're like, who is that coming into our town? And so, that's kind of uncomfortable, but that is actually what you expect from agricultural land. 302 00:21:17,961.001 --> 00:21:25,576.001 You expect it to be very rural not without, you know, Any amenities and that's so Anderson Valley is that place interesting. 303 00:21:25,576.001 --> 00:21:27,466.001 And that is just beautiful. 304 00:21:27,466.001 --> 00:21:28,346.001 Amazing. 305 00:21:28,406.001 --> 00:21:29,426.0015 And they produce great wine. 306 00:21:29,496.0015 --> 00:21:32,196.0025 I really want to throw an accolades to Anderson Valley. 307 00:21:32,596.0025 --> 00:21:36,287.6858333 Cause the bubbles are just insanely good, insanely good. 308 00:21:36,892.6858333 --> 00:21:37,832.6858333 Fantastic. 309 00:21:37,952.6858333 --> 00:21:54,522.6858333 And especially for 30, like that's around, and right now, like, you know, that's, so we're just a high price point for many people, but it's not nearly, it's still about 20 to 50 percent less than you would expect of similar quality if it was from champagne. 310 00:21:55,112.6848333 --> 00:21:57,542.6858333 And so that's where I like, I like to land there. 311 00:21:57,772.6858333 --> 00:22:03,787.6858333 And that's like the kind of, here's, We're done with all the classical style of bubbles now. 312 00:22:04,37.6858333 --> 00:22:10,807.6858333 And that, that wine, of course, in the Ancestry Valley, they grow a lot of Pinot So that's your classic blend of Pinot and Chard. 313 00:22:10,817.6858333 --> 00:22:11,257.6858333 Mm hmm. 314 00:22:11,667.6848333 --> 00:22:11,797.6848333 Yeah. 315 00:22:11,997.6848333 --> 00:22:15,257.6853333 So 30 is a nice price point. 316 00:22:15,307.6853333 --> 00:22:16,567.6853333 oh God, yeah, for that one. 317 00:22:16,567.6853333 --> 00:22:19,430.9863333 Everything we were talking about before is like 20 or under. 318 00:22:19,460.9863333 --> 00:22:22,280.9863333 But this, yeah, for that, just a special bottle. 319 00:22:22,380.9863333 --> 00:22:23,390.9863333 That's a special bottle. 320 00:22:23,811.0863333 --> 00:22:24,0.8863333 Fantastic. 321 00:22:24,50.9863333 --> 00:22:27,90.9863333 yeah, and then we keep, but that and then we get to the weird stuff. 322 00:22:27,150.9863333 --> 00:22:37,119.2863333 So then I go back France and there is a bougie Is that how you pronounce it? I can never pronounce it correctly. 323 00:22:37,119.2863333 --> 00:22:38,975.8863333 And I should probably ask you this before. 324 00:22:38,975.9863333 --> 00:22:40,155.9863333 No, it's, it is. 325 00:22:40,165.9863333 --> 00:22:40,935.9863333 It's Bougie. 326 00:22:40,936.0863333 --> 00:22:41,465.8863333 It's Bougie. 327 00:22:41,465.9863333 --> 00:22:42,125.9863333 I thought so. 328 00:22:42,435.9863333 --> 00:22:43,435.9863333 But you look at me like. 329 00:22:43,545.9863333 --> 00:22:44,485.9863333 I know. 330 00:22:44,515.9863333 --> 00:22:45,805.9863333 I didn't know if you were making a joke. 331 00:22:46,255.9863333 --> 00:22:48,869.0859487 No, I'm not making a joke. 332 00:22:48,869.0859487 --> 00:22:50,538.9859487 Bougie Cerdan, yes. 333 00:22:50,539.0859487 --> 00:22:51,498.9859487 Bougie Cerdan, okay. 334 00:22:51,558.9859487 --> 00:22:52,714.8259487 So, We're writing it down. 335 00:22:53,444.9259487 --> 00:22:54,54.9259487 in the Alps. 336 00:22:54,404.9259487 --> 00:22:58,634.9259487 We're in the Alps, we're almost in Switzerland, you know, it's pretty far away from Alsace. 337 00:22:58,944.9259487 --> 00:23:12,684.9264487 It's south of Alsace, but it's also pretty, yeah, in the Jura ish, you know, not quite, but, you know, this is the area, just get people, it's so small there, people have no idea where this is, and their bubbles almost always are mythic. 338 00:23:12,899.9264487 --> 00:23:18,869.9264487 Method ancestral, which is, you know, where they don't remove any of the yeast before they send it off. 339 00:23:19,39.9254487 --> 00:23:23,669.9264487 So it has all the yeast in there, but also it's always a little bit of residual sugar in there. 340 00:23:24,119.9264487 --> 00:23:27,209.9264487 And also here's the weirdest thing, the red wines. 341 00:23:27,239.9264487 --> 00:23:27,769.9264487 Yes. 342 00:23:28,19.9264487 --> 00:23:29,489.9264487 red bubbles made with Gamay. 343 00:23:30,39.9264487 --> 00:23:30,469.9264487 Yeah. 344 00:23:30,519.9264487 --> 00:23:37,609.8264487 And so they're, Gamay is always the least understood grape. 345 00:23:37,739.8254487 --> 00:23:39,279.8254487 one of my favorite grapes. 346 00:23:40,539.8254487 --> 00:23:44,559.8259487 And yeah, as bubbles, it can be so weird. 347 00:23:44,639.8249487 --> 00:23:46,399.8259487 Like, it's a very divisive wine. 348 00:23:46,579.8259487 --> 00:23:47,729.8259487 And it's a natural wine. 349 00:23:47,729.8259487 --> 00:23:51,329.8259487 it's Method Ancestral, but it's very low intervention. 350 00:23:51,339.8259487 --> 00:23:51,939.8259487 Yes. 351 00:23:51,959.8259487 --> 00:23:54,347.3254487 And I'm using a different producer that I've used in the past. 352 00:23:54,347.3254487 --> 00:24:02,897.3244487 Because the producer that we, I've, we've used in the past, he's gone more and more residual sugar and weird as he went on. 353 00:24:03,397.3254487 --> 00:24:07,47.3254487 And as you notice, cause the RS is was getting pretty high, pretty high. 354 00:24:07,57.3244487 --> 00:24:07,337.3244487 Okay. 355 00:24:07,437.3244487 --> 00:24:07,837.3244487 It's funny. 356 00:24:07,837.3244487 --> 00:24:08,97.3239487 Yeah. 357 00:24:08,97.3239487 --> 00:24:13,797.3244487 That dude is, he's weird and lovely, but he's, wine's got from going weirder and weirder over the decades. 358 00:24:14,77.3244487 --> 00:24:17,887.3244487 and now it would just be super fun to finish really weird. 359 00:24:17,887.3244487 --> 00:24:20,227.3244487 It's an art, it's a semi sparkly. 360 00:24:20,227.3244487 --> 00:24:26,217.3244487 It's a bubbles, but it's Greek it's from the, I believe it's the Doria grave. 361 00:24:26,237.3244487 --> 00:24:37,7.3244487 It's an ancient grape variety white grape, but actually it's an orange wine, so it is a slightly sweet bubble from Greece that's also an orange wine. 362 00:24:37,7.3244487 --> 00:24:38,967.3244487 It was weird and lovely and fun. 363 00:24:39,37.4244487 --> 00:24:48,797.3244487 The thing you finish off with, you're like, Oh, so I go from class, you know, like building up to the classics and then get real weird, real fast. 364 00:24:49,117.3244487 --> 00:24:49,687.3244487 Love it. 365 00:24:49,727.3244487 --> 00:24:57,157.3254487 And just to see what people, I want people to see where the world is and like, bubbles, isn't just our classical, it's so many other things. 366 00:24:57,457.3254487 --> 00:24:59,807.3254487 And I want them to think about that as well. 367 00:25:00,177.3254487 --> 00:25:00,447.3254487 Yeah. 368 00:25:00,447.3254487 --> 00:25:09,462.3254487 I always get nervous when somebody says they really love bubbles or champagne and then it just becomes a very, Douchy I'm sorry. 369 00:25:09,462.3254487 --> 00:25:12,7.3254487 Well that's the thing about my class. 370 00:25:13,87.3254487 --> 00:25:15,707.3254487 You're much more intellectual than I am when you teach a class. 371 00:25:15,717.3254487 --> 00:25:17,367.3254487 I've already just taken notes from my class. 372 00:25:17,447.3254487 --> 00:25:18,977.3254487 I'm like, well, moose, that's right. 373 00:25:18,977.3254487 --> 00:25:19,527.3254487 I forgot about that. 374 00:25:21,667.3254487 --> 00:25:27,567.3254487 Can't you see terminology? So I really need to remember home back in key. 375 00:25:27,867.3244487 --> 00:25:28,997.3244487 Come on, you can do it. 376 00:25:28,997.4244487 --> 00:25:30,847.3244487 You can, you can be an adult. 377 00:25:30,897.4244487 --> 00:25:59,167.5234487 but with my clan, you know, like I always start off in such a ridiculously like funny grumpy way that it immediately tells me that whole idea of being snooty, you know, having going snob first and anything is just not gonna, it's not going to, Work in my classroom and the fact actually it's going to be a negative at the point first time in their life The whole idea of that bubbles, and this is, this class specifically is all about bubbles except for champagne. 378 00:25:59,257.5234487 --> 00:25:59,557.5234487 Right. 379 00:25:59,587.5234487 --> 00:26:03,367.5234487 So, you know, don't expect, you know, like snobbery here. 380 00:26:03,417.5234487 --> 00:26:10,647.5234487 It is about the joy of a very hard and very interesting type of wine. 381 00:26:10,697.5234487 --> 00:26:13,877.5234487 That just actually people don't drink enough of Agreed. 382 00:26:13,877.5234487 --> 00:26:14,237.5234487 Yeah. 383 00:26:14,297.5234487 --> 00:26:16,787.5234487 Except apparently I'm watching a TV show where, what the assassin. 384 00:26:18,257.5234487 --> 00:26:20,527.5234487 All they do is drink bubbles all the time. 385 00:26:20,537.5234487 --> 00:26:20,827.5234487 That's true. 386 00:26:20,927.5234487 --> 00:26:22,847.5234487 I think there's going to be a reveal at the end. 387 00:26:22,857.5234487 --> 00:26:24,477.5234487 The British sparkling wine industry. 388 00:26:24,547.5234487 --> 00:26:25,287.5219487 Well, No, yeah, no. 389 00:26:25,327.5219487 --> 00:26:27,367.4239487 Even if you're the sexiest assassin. 390 00:26:27,777.4239487 --> 00:26:30,707.4239487 All dreaded British bubbles. 391 00:26:30,717.4239487 --> 00:26:31,477.4239487 Absolutely. 392 00:26:31,607.4239487 --> 00:26:34,867.4239487 And, British bubbles, I would love to have that in this class, but they're so expensive right now. 393 00:26:35,17.4239487 --> 00:26:36,397.4239487 I was going to ask actually. 394 00:26:36,407.4239487 --> 00:26:37,197.4249487 I love them. 395 00:26:37,197.4249487 --> 00:26:44,217.4249487 around 50? Yeah, they started 50 ish and you pretty much, well, no, that, sorry, that was that was pre inflation price. 396 00:26:44,227.4249487 --> 00:26:50,87.4249487 They're around 55 now to 65 is now what you expect, which is insanely expensive. 397 00:26:50,87.4249487 --> 00:26:51,117.4249487 They're absolutely amazing. 398 00:26:51,307.4249487 --> 00:26:51,867.4249487 Yes. 399 00:26:51,917.4249487 --> 00:27:00,262.4249487 Once in a while though, You know, when they don't sell and they bring too much into the country and they don't sell that, I'll wait, I wait for them to get hit that discount. 400 00:27:00,652.4249487 --> 00:27:08,872.4249487 Like if people try to sell them at cost, so maybe I'll be able to pick them up for 40 and that's what I will buy a bunch of them so I can put them on classes. 401 00:27:09,962.4249487 --> 00:27:11,62.4249487 Well, thank you so much, Keith. 402 00:27:11,72.4249487 --> 00:27:11,822.4249487 I learned a lot. 403 00:27:12,122.4249487 --> 00:27:12,752.4249487 This was super fun. 404 00:27:13,102.4249487 --> 00:27:17,692.4249487 Hopefully, everyone else out there enjoyed this after school session. 405 00:27:17,732.4249487 --> 00:27:20,242.4249487 I love it because I got all my prep work done. 406 00:27:20,592.4239487 --> 00:27:21,526.2241987 Yeah, you sure did. 407 00:27:21,526.2241987 --> 00:27:23,588.1914487 didn't have to look at anything else. 408 00:27:24,298.2914487 --> 00:27:27,248.2914487 Thanks everyone for joining us and we'll see you next time. 409 00:27:27,428.2914487 --> 00:27:27,898.2914487 Oh, yes. 410 00:27:27,898.2914487 --> 00:27:30,858.2914487 And make sure you follow and tell people about this podcast. 411 00:27:31,198.2914487 --> 00:27:31,918.2904487 It grows. 412 00:27:31,938.2914487 --> 00:27:34,278.2914487 We do this because we love it and we love you. 413 00:27:34,628.2904487 --> 00:27:37,888.2904487 the more people are listening, the more fun, the bigger this is. 414 00:27:38,248.2904487 --> 00:27:42,148.2904487 And the more we can actually like get a more of a healthy love of wine. 415 00:27:42,698.2904487 --> 00:27:45,478.2904487 Out there that doesn't have to be snobbish, even if it's bubbles. 416 00:27:45,518.2904487 --> 00:27:48,258.2904487 It's like, you don't have to be a snob to love bubbles. 417 00:27:48,338.2904487 --> 00:27:48,868.2904487 Totally. 418 00:27:49,68.2904487 --> 00:27:49,508.2904487 All right. 419 00:27:49,938.2904487 --> 00:27:50,868.2904487 Bye friends. 420 00:27:50,988.2904487 --> 00:27:51,308.2904487 Bye bye. 421 00:27:54,578.2904487 --> 00:27:57,558.2904487 Thanks for spending time with us on After Wine School. 422 00:27:58,98.2904487 --> 00:28:05,208.2894487 If you enjoyed today's episode, hit subscribe so you never miss out on more wine wisdom, tips, and laughs.
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