May 6, 2025 • 19 mins
In this episode of After Wine School, hosts Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe delve into the world of wine, demystifying the concept of terroir. Keith passionately argues that terroir is often overstated and emphasizes the significant role of yeast and winemaking techniques. The duo also explores the magic of precise winemaking as they taste a Sancerre. They share candid insights and engage in an entertaining discussion about wine education, pairing suggestions, and the elusive quality that makes some wines truly extraordinary. Tune in for wine wisdom, hearty laughs, and passionate debates.
00:00 Introduction to After Wine School
00:41 Meet Your Hosts: Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe
01:01 Legal Disclaimer and Podcast Humor
01:59 The Terroir Debate: Keith's Controversial Take
03:19 Defining Terroir: Classical vs. Modern Views
04:35 The Role of Yeast in Winemaking
07:43 The Magic of Winemaking
12:40 Wine Tasting: Sancerre
17:40 Food Pairings and Final Thoughts
18:57 Closing Remarks and Call to Action
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to After Wine School, the podcast that demystifies wine and makes it approachable for everyone.
Join Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe, two of the nation's leading wine experts, as they uncork everything you need to know about wine, from picking the right bottle to mastering unforgettable food and wine pairings.
This isn't about stuffy lectures or confusing jargon.
(00:26):
It's about enjoying wine the way it's meant to be.
So grab a glass And let's dive in.
Don't forget to subscribe to After Wine School today.
Hello, hello, hello folks.
Welcome to After School, the Wine Podcast.
(00:48):
Okay, I'm Alana Zerbe, the Director of Wine Education at the Wine School of Philadelphia, and joining me is Mr.
Keith Wallace, the Founder and Director of the Wine School of Philadelphia.
Now, we are sponsored by the National Wine School, the premier online education body, and The legal disclaimer, as always.
(01:11):
Please! Okay.
What is it? The views and opinions expressed here are purely our own, and should not reflect the views and opinions And that's coming from someone who, one of the best white instructors I know, also former lawyer. 14 00:01:30,145.999 --> 00:01:34,326 And apparently I've said some things on this podcast that probably I shouldn't have. 15 00:01:34,326.1 --> 00:01:37,215.899 Indeed. 16 00:01:37,215.999 --> 00:01:37,365.999 Indeed.
(01:37):
It's not surprising. 18 00:01:38,116.1 --> 00:01:39,106 And it will happen again.
Oh, it's going to happen every time.
The question is, what am I going to say? And I don't even know it.
.999apparently some people do, like tweet out, or X out, sorry, certain things I've said, not just here, but actually in class, and apparently there's people who actually want to ask our t shirts, but, you know, I said, please don't do that. 22 00:01:57,215.999 --> 00:01:59,465.9 No swag, no swag.
(01:59):
So Keith, today I have a question to ask you.
I don't want to know what it is.
You do.
No, I don't.
actually one of your favorite things to talk about.
Oh, me? Yes.
Oh, excellent.
So, I was born into a very WASPy family, back in 1825.
Okay.
I've aged very well. 33 00:02:18,410.999 --> 00:02:18,550.999 Wow. 34 00:02:18,950.999 --> 00:02:19,751 Yeah, yeah.
(02:20):
.999Thank you.
So, this is a great podcast.
I love this.
Is that the wine? That's amazing.
It's the wine.
it's also just my general, outlook in life.
Great.
Yeah.
Well, you seem teed up perfectly.
Okay.
To talk about terroir.
Oh, come on. 47 00:02:34,411.1 --> 00:02:35,046 no. 48 00:02:35,46.1 --> 00:02:35,946.1 That's a setup. 49 00:02:37,206.1 --> 00:02:38,356.1 It's my least favorite word. 50 00:02:38,646.1 --> 00:02:39,606.099 It's my least favorite word. 51 00:02:39,806.1 --> 00:02:48,236.1015 So one of the things I do in class, and if you ever take a class with me, especially if you're in a small class with me, one of the first things I do is I basically line everybody up. 52 00:02:48,236.1015 --> 00:02:50,116.1015 Everyone's sitting, well actually they're sitting in their seats. 53 00:02:50,166.1015 --> 00:02:57,646.1015 But I do ask Everybody to repeat after me, terroir is bullshit, terroir is bullshit. 54 00:02:57,956.1015 --> 00:03:01,956.0015 Now, because it is, caveat, 98 percent of the time, 99. 55 00:03:01,956.1015 --> 00:03:07,646.1015 9 percent of the time, I'll even go that far, that terroir is bullshit. 56 00:03:07,646.2015 --> 00:03:10,856.1015 You know, here, okay, let me back up for a second. 57 00:03:11,76.1015 --> 00:03:11,666.1015 Okay. 58 00:03:12,846.1015 --> 00:03:15,146.1015 maybe you should, yeah, yeah, yeah. 59 00:03:15,186.1015 --> 00:03:19,316.1015 Actually, how about you, would you like to describe, Define terms for us. 60 00:03:19,556.1015 --> 00:03:26,106.1015 what is terroir? What's the classical, the classical definition of terroir? Well, I like Matt Kramer, old school. 61 00:03:26,116.1015 --> 00:03:31,636.1015 His definition of terroir is when a wine has a some where ness. 62 00:03:33,116.1015 --> 00:03:34,846.1015 It speaks of a place. 63 00:03:35,296.1015 --> 00:03:36,756.1015 It's not generic. 64 00:03:36,796.1015 --> 00:03:39,276.1015 It can't be mass produced. 65 00:03:39,486.1015 --> 00:03:52,176.1005 It's the unique stamp of a region and it's, climate, precipitation, sunlight, drainage, everything that happened in this small little place in one year. 66 00:03:52,456.1005 --> 00:03:54,586.1005 That's what the wine should display. 67 00:03:55,226.1005 --> 00:03:56,796.1005 Okay, absolutely. 68 00:03:57,516.1005 --> 00:03:57,816.1005 Right. 69 00:03:57,906.1005 --> 00:03:58,826.1005 That is true. 70 00:03:59,146.1005 --> 00:04:07,886.0995 except for the fact that a lot of the same elements are only small percentages of the output. 71 00:04:08,446.1005 --> 00:04:09,166.1015 here's the thing. 72 00:04:09,966.1015 --> 00:04:10,806.1015 Absolutely. 73 00:04:11,226.1005 --> 00:04:13,886.0995 these do change the flavor of wine. 74 00:04:13,886.0995 --> 00:04:19,826.2005 So if you grow a grape on this side of the road and then another acre on the other side you make wine to them. 75 00:04:19,826.2005 --> 00:04:20,696.2005 They're gonna be a little bit different. 76 00:04:20,756.2005 --> 00:04:27,316.1995 There's no arguing that point but It's gonna be such a slight difference. 77 00:04:27,316.1995 --> 00:04:35,241.2005 That's gonna be negligible now The biggest difference of any wine is actually the bacteria load. 78 00:04:35,301.2005 --> 00:04:37,541.2005 Now, this is what we know, I believe in science. 79 00:04:37,641.2005 --> 00:04:38,101.2005 I do. 80 00:04:38,121.2005 --> 00:04:40,61.2005 I believe in what we can prove, what we can show. 81 00:04:40,311.1995 --> 00:04:51,321.2005 And one of the things we can show consistently is that if you are fermenting with native yeasts, you are going to have a very specific flavors. 82 00:04:51,511.2005 --> 00:04:54,781.2005 that's only gonna be replicated if you have those specific native yeasts. 83 00:04:55,441.2005 --> 00:04:57,591.2005 We've replicated all those native yeasts and you can buy them. 84 00:04:57,986.2005 --> 00:05:00,276.2005 I can buy any yeast, almost. 85 00:05:00,916.2005 --> 00:05:01,676.2005 Anywhere in the world. 86 00:05:01,676.2005 --> 00:05:06,136.2005 And if I can't buy it, I can actually contract someone to make it for me. 87 00:05:06,646.2005 --> 00:05:12,766.2005 So I can take those yeast, that bacteria load, the yeast load, replicate that anywhere in the world. 88 00:05:13,86.2005 --> 00:05:25,596.2005 And I have done this for when, once we have like advanced small yeast coming in, you know, they've been with us for a long time that I, you know, that they're like in the last final year of classes, sometimes they get cocky and I've had students who just like. 89 00:05:26,626.2005 --> 00:05:31,166.2005 And they are really good, but they still feel like they know the differences. 90 00:05:31,396.2005 --> 00:05:36,76.2005 what I'll do is I'll pull a bottle of white Burgundy, a really beautiful one, a Montrachet. 91 00:05:36,96.2005 --> 00:05:38,746.2 And then I will grab another bottle from Australia. 92 00:05:38,956.2 --> 00:05:47,746.2 It's actually a French winemaker who's using, the identical same techniques from Montrachet, but also he's imported and uses only those yeasts. 93 00:05:48,351.2 --> 00:05:50,271.2 that wine is identical. 94 00:05:50,551.2 --> 00:05:53,51.2 when you have them taste it blind, you can't tell the difference. 95 00:05:53,111.2 --> 00:06:00,481.2 Okay Keith, so as you're talking, I am picturing some very specific French winemakers. 96 00:06:00,521.199 --> 00:06:00,971.199 Yes. 97 00:06:01,11.2 --> 00:06:07,131.2 And their faces are turning more and more red with every word. 98 00:06:08,831.2 --> 00:06:09,111.2 Yes. 99 00:06:09,121.2 --> 00:06:12,101.2 At this point, they would definitely just throw you out of their winery. 100 00:06:12,451.2 --> 00:06:12,481.2 Yes. 101 00:06:13,471.2 --> 00:06:25,81.2 What would those folks counter? What would they say to you that you might be missing? Most winemakers, behind the scenes, when we talk together, we will all admit these things. 102 00:06:25,331.2 --> 00:06:49,701.199 We'll all admit that we will talk sometimes about place and how great it is, but we'll also have an understanding that the majority of things that we're doing, The yeast we're using, the techniques we're using, how we're harvesting, everything, how, you know, how, how, whether you green harvest or not, how you prune, all these things have a much larger effect than place. 103 00:06:50,211.198 --> 00:06:51,801.199 We'll all admit that in private. 104 00:06:51,801.199 --> 00:06:58,301.199 We can't do that in public because the public at large really wants to know why. 105 00:06:59,81.199 --> 00:07:07,331.199 They're spending 150 for this cabernet from this specific vineyard and 20 for another. 106 00:07:07,341.199 --> 00:07:13,771.199 Like, they have to have a reason other than it's just more expensive because more people want it. 107 00:07:14,61.198 --> 00:07:16,491.199 Or it's more exclusive, there's less of it. 108 00:07:16,501.198 --> 00:07:18,811.198 Like, they don't want to hear economics of winemaking. 109 00:07:18,831.199 --> 00:07:24,381.199 They want to hear there's a real specific difference in somehow it's sold. 110 00:07:24,766.199 --> 00:07:30,476.199 they don't want to hear about clonal differences, which is another huge difference, but okay. 111 00:07:31,776.199 --> 00:07:32,656.199 Let me get back to this. 112 00:07:32,656.199 --> 00:07:33,366.199 I'm sorry. 113 00:07:33,426.199 --> 00:07:33,936.199 I'm sorry. 114 00:07:34,246.199 --> 00:07:35,306.199 You asked me about Terroir. 115 00:07:35,376.199 --> 00:07:35,726.199 was doing. 116 00:07:35,736.199 --> 00:07:37,256.2 No one should ever ask me about Terroir. 117 00:07:37,296.2 --> 00:07:38,256.199 This is a one and done. 118 00:07:38,456.2 --> 00:07:39,626.201 Keith is grumpy. 119 00:07:39,626.201 --> 00:07:41,386.201 He gets to talk about things he hates. 120 00:07:41,676.201 --> 00:07:42,766.201 Oh, podcast. 121 00:07:42,796.201 --> 00:07:43,146.201 Oh no. 122 00:07:43,236.201 --> 00:08:04,166.2 So, When everything else is equal, when everything else is equal, if we separate out all our techniques and all the things we do to make wines, there will always be some wines that we can't explain why they're great. 123 00:08:04,696.2 --> 00:08:10,896.2 There will always be, and I agree with that, like that is true, that there's always going to be a space. 124 00:08:11,671.201 --> 00:08:13,411.201 Base for terroir. 125 00:08:13,421.201 --> 00:08:14,51.201 True terroir. 126 00:08:14,51.201 --> 00:08:22,271.201 There's gonna be, there is something that our science, our knowledge, maybe it will in the future, but right now it can't identify. 127 00:08:23,51.2 --> 00:08:31,433.43265217 we also have, we do know that we have, AI that's, starting to identify variations in things that we didn't even notice. 128 00:08:31,433.43265217 --> 00:08:37,179.39847826 And we may have this, that there is in fact, these elements, these differences. 129 00:08:37,179.39847826 --> 00:08:41,247.08175155 Now, From a bottle that can be traced back to a specific exact. 130 00:08:41,247.08175155 --> 00:08:41,682.76746584 exactly. 131 00:08:41,682.76746584 --> 00:08:44,914.23889441 That's exactly right So this is true. 132 00:08:45,174.23889441 --> 00:09:17,364.23839441 This is absolutely true now But the thing is that that is always going to be a tiny percentage of wines And it's better to actually say terroir is bullshit To say most of what we're hearing when people use that term is not true That allows us to really Open ourselves up for the moment when it is true because there have been moments where Even though I've been teaching about wine for training professionals for 20 years and I went to school for winemaking. 133 00:09:17,414.23839441 --> 00:09:28,114.23839441 I was a winemaker for a good long time Like I know so much But I still always learn more true, but there's always this moment. 134 00:09:28,134.23839441 --> 00:09:32,944.23839441 There's always one every four or five years I have a wine like I don't know why this is so great. 135 00:09:33,244.23839441 --> 00:09:38,34.23839441 Like I know everything they're doing I Can taste all that but there's something else. 136 00:09:38,264.23839441 --> 00:09:39,544.23739441 There's this one spark here. 137 00:09:39,544.23839441 --> 00:09:41,794.23839441 There's one amazing beautiful thing. 138 00:09:42,104.23839441 --> 00:09:44,474.23839441 That's here that I don't know why it's here. 139 00:09:44,504.23839441 --> 00:09:46,564.23839441 It just it lifts me up and such joy. 140 00:09:46,774.23839441 --> 00:10:01,334.23839441 it's like reading you know the ten commandments like the first time you like look at that and you're the first person to look at like Oh, really neighbor's ass what but That moment of revelation, whatever it is for everybody, you know, whatever that moment is that aha, ah, you know, that thing. 141 00:10:01,674.23839441 --> 00:10:04,474.23839441 And I get to have that because I know what it isn't. 142 00:10:05,24.23839441 --> 00:10:06,924.23839441 And I think that's very important too. 143 00:10:07,304.23839441 --> 00:10:19,854.23839441 And I just want to say something that happens every year in the winemaking class, and I think it's absolutely fascinating is, and you'll see this, that there are some people. 144 00:10:20,554.23839441 --> 00:10:27,547.63822774 Who, for whatever reason, you've literally said the yeast is happy when they're there. 145 00:10:27,547.63822774 --> 00:10:28,40.93806108 Yes. 146 00:10:28,40.93806108 --> 00:10:35,154.33939441 So there is this ephemeral side to things, simply that we haven't quantified everything. 147 00:10:35,154.33939441 --> 00:10:37,14.33839441 We don't understand everything. 148 00:10:37,14.33839441 --> 00:10:42,504.33839441 And I think yeast could be pulled towards certain energies or whatever it is. 149 00:10:42,944.33839441 --> 00:10:44,564.33839441 so there's so much that we don't know. 150 00:10:44,654.33839441 --> 00:10:45,554.33839441 That's true too. 151 00:10:45,594.33739441 --> 00:10:48,354.33839441 That's really true and you're right I do say that because it's true. 152 00:10:48,394.33839441 --> 00:10:50,604.33739441 Some people just have that thing. 153 00:10:51,44.33739441 --> 00:10:51,514.33739441 I've heard it. 154 00:10:51,739.33739441 --> 00:10:56,129.33739441 They're nearby and it's always interesting and it's, somebody you don't expect it to be. 155 00:10:56,139.33739441 --> 00:11:04,409.33739441 And you're like, Oh, is that because you're a good person? I don't think that I trust dogs. 156 00:11:04,459.33739441 --> 00:11:08,269.33739441 And he used to tell me who's good and who's bad in the world. 157 00:11:08,329.33739441 --> 00:11:18,124.23739441 actually think it has nothing to Okay, maybe it's just what kind of, laundry detergent they use. 158 00:11:18,204.23739441 --> 00:11:18,934.23739441 Well, I Okay. 159 00:11:19,154.23739441 --> 00:11:25,764.23739441 I think we've arrived at a place that you've definitely put your view out there. 160 00:11:25,804.23839441 --> 00:11:26,114.23839441 Yeah. 161 00:11:26,234.23739441 --> 00:11:38,909.23739441 And, but also left room for the mystery, and I think why we, Are so passionate when something is amazing because it is it does feel like a miracle Oh, yeah, every time I make wine even with my students teaching them how to make wine. 162 00:11:39,379.23839441 --> 00:11:58,244.23839441 It's amazing It is it's such I know all the science, but the fact is that when it happens, you know It just feels like magic every time it is so wonderful the experience i'll never trade it You know, but it's just like being fully vetted into the world and not expecting it to be magic But it still feels like magic and that's wonderful. 163 00:11:58,294.23839441 --> 00:12:01,444.23839441 It always should be like magic Now speaking of magic. 164 00:12:02,34.23839441 --> 00:12:08,134.23839441 Yes Speaking of magic, that is created by completely and utterly precise winemaking. 165 00:12:10,324.23839441 --> 00:12:26,284.23839441 After wine school is proudly supported by the National Wine School, the gold standard, and professional wine certifications, whether you're dreaming of a career in the wine industry or just eager to take your wine knowledge to the next level, the National Wine School has you covered. 166 00:12:26,724.23839441 --> 00:12:32,94.23839441 Their programs are trusted, rigorous, and designed for aspiring wine pros like you. 167 00:12:34,514.23839441 --> 00:12:39,194.23839441 Visit Wine School us to learn more and start your journey today. 168 00:12:40,814.23839441 --> 00:12:43,554.23839441 Certainly, we do have a very special wine today. 169 00:12:43,804.23739441 --> 00:12:50,4.23839441 We are trying a Sancerre, and this is a wonderful producer, Henri Bourgeois. 170 00:12:50,214.23739441 --> 00:12:53,634.23839441 The bottle that we have is Le Côte de Montdanais. 171 00:12:55,249.23839441 --> 00:12:57,39.23839441 nice, let's see if you could pour that for us. 172 00:12:57,259.23839441 --> 00:12:57,579.23839441 All right. 173 00:12:57,579.23839441 --> 00:13:01,659.23739441 Well, I'm not gonna have to thank you the magic of the energy internets. 174 00:13:03,399.23839441 --> 00:13:05,39.23839441 Oh Fantastic. 175 00:13:05,69.23839441 --> 00:13:05,629.23839441 Oh, this is fine. 176 00:13:05,849.23839441 --> 00:13:06,389.23839441 All right. 177 00:13:06,799.23739441 --> 00:13:07,879.23739441 I do love Sancerre. 178 00:13:07,889.23739441 --> 00:13:13,739.23839441 So can we gently cheers? Cheers? There we are All right. 179 00:13:14,229.23839441 --> 00:13:20,984.23839441 Now, let's let's give this a nice swirl Everyone should know their, their S's. 180 00:13:21,64.23839441 --> 00:13:22,924.23839441 C, swirl, sniff, sip. 181 00:13:23,104.23839441 --> 00:13:23,724.23839441 All that. 182 00:13:24,354.23839441 --> 00:13:25,324.23839441 Alright, so. 183 00:13:26,514.23839441 --> 00:13:26,804.23839441 Alright. 184 00:13:28,964.23839441 --> 00:13:30,554.23839441 Precise winemaking. 185 00:13:32,274.23839441 --> 00:13:36,394.23839441 I'm old enough to remember when Sancerre just smelled like cat pee. 186 00:13:36,504.23839441 --> 00:13:38,94.23839441 Like I remember that. 187 00:13:38,234.23839441 --> 00:13:38,434.23839441 Yeah. 188 00:13:38,434.23839441 --> 00:13:39,524.23839441 you do mention that. 189 00:13:39,944.23839441 --> 00:13:40,884.23739441 Yeah, I do. 190 00:13:41,214.23839441 --> 00:13:42,354.23789441 they changed how they made wine. 191 00:13:42,364.23889441 --> 00:13:44,734.23889441 They, they now, instead of allowing. 192 00:13:45,4.23889441 --> 00:13:46,964.23889441 Your bunch is to be covered by leaves. 193 00:13:46,964.23889441 --> 00:14:04,99.23989441 They actually make sure to strip them out which decreases your amount of pyrazine in your grapes sunlight does break it down And then in that cat pee smell anyone who's ever had a cat have you ever had a cat? I have not, You know that male cat pee smell, like when they're marking a territory. 194 00:14:04,199.23989441 --> 00:14:05,129.23989441 oh my God, it's nasty. 195 00:14:05,509.23989441 --> 00:14:05,709.23989441 But yeah. 196 00:14:05,889.23989441 --> 00:14:06,779.23989441 Sunset used to have that. 197 00:14:06,789.23989441 --> 00:14:07,759.23989441 People used to like that. 198 00:14:08,129.23989441 --> 00:14:10,449.24089441 And, I did not, I really did not. 199 00:14:10,769.23989441 --> 00:14:15,524.24089441 I thought it was New Zealand, Sauvignon Blanc, Oh, they, they did. 200 00:14:15,554.24089441 --> 00:14:18,844.24089441 They had the same problem, but Sincere did it way before that. 201 00:14:18,964.24089441 --> 00:14:19,534.24089441 Oh yeah. 202 00:14:19,884.24089441 --> 00:14:20,174.24089441 Oh yeah. 203 00:14:20,174.24089441 --> 00:14:21,94.24089441 No, they were not. 204 00:14:21,104.24089441 --> 00:14:25,544.23989441 And then when they, over the last, you know, 30 years, they've really cleaned out their winemaking. 205 00:14:25,544.23989441 --> 00:14:25,764.23989441 Got it. 206 00:14:26,94.24089441 --> 00:14:26,404.24089441 Yep. 207 00:14:26,544.23989441 --> 00:14:28,694.24089441 But yeah, no, New Zealand had that when they started out. 208 00:14:28,704.23989441 --> 00:14:29,714.24089441 It was gross too. 209 00:14:30,24.24089441 --> 00:14:41,894.24089441 so what are we smelling? all right, so like, so when you have a low level pyrazine, they're using it like as a master painter, like you're leaving that little bit of greenness as freshness underneath. 210 00:14:42,234.24089441 --> 00:14:44,924.23989441 So it is really smelling more floral. 211 00:14:45,424.23989441 --> 00:14:55,474.24089441 And, what, what are you getting? I mean, you're probably getting the same floral or how would you expand on that? I get white floral notes, almost, Like a tea rose, one of those, arrows. 212 00:14:55,474.24089441 --> 00:14:56,454.24089441 Tea rose? Yeah. 213 00:14:56,534.24089441 --> 00:15:00,54.23989441 What is that? The heirloom roses that actually have fragrance. 214 00:15:00,84.23989441 --> 00:15:01,14.24089441 Oh, yeah. 215 00:15:01,24.24089441 --> 00:15:02,554.24089441 They're really, really lovely. 216 00:15:03,184.24089441 --> 00:15:08,14.24089441 I mean, there's also for me lemongrass, some underripe, like, peaches. 217 00:15:08,104.24089441 --> 00:15:09,414.24089441 Oh, yeah. 218 00:15:09,514.24089441 --> 00:15:09,984.24089441 plum. 219 00:15:10,204.24089441 --> 00:15:16,94.24089441 It's nice because there's this very serious, herbaceous, but floral note underneath. 220 00:15:16,954.24089441 --> 00:15:23,4.23989441 But then on top of it is this nice fruit, but it's, that slightly underripe, but also a little bit of underripe, green apple, too. 221 00:15:23,194.24089441 --> 00:15:23,294.24089441 Yes. 222 00:15:23,384.24089441 --> 00:15:24,394.24089441 I really like this. 223 00:15:24,434.24089441 --> 00:15:25,244.24089441 of minerality. 224 00:15:25,314.24089441 --> 00:15:25,604.24189441 Oh, yeah. 225 00:15:25,604.34189441 --> 00:15:26,464.24189441 Always minerality. 226 00:15:28,294.24189441 --> 00:15:29,534.24189441 I can taste the potassium. 227 00:15:33,634.24189441 --> 00:15:43,574.24189441 Because the one of the things about the soil structure here is that they do have a surprising amount of potassium in their soils, which actually is one of the few things that actually, it's a nutrients that they live on. 228 00:15:44,24.24289441 --> 00:15:50,944.24289441 And so, you can actually have a slightly increase of potassium in these wines, and it makes the wines even taste more acidic than they actually are. 229 00:15:50,964.24289441 --> 00:15:56,524.24289441 They're very acidic, but yeah, so, so if you really, anyone wants to be a real douchebag, you can say, potassium. 230 00:15:56,564.24389441 --> 00:16:03,674.24289441 before we take a sip, for anybody out there with misophonia, I think we should come up with a, a cue, maybe earmuffs. 231 00:16:03,724.24289441 --> 00:16:09,694.24389441 Or something to let folks know if you get triggered by the sound of someone taking a sip. 232 00:16:10,99.24389441 --> 00:16:10,689.24389441 Earmuffs. 233 00:16:10,689.34389441 --> 00:16:15,169.34389441 just hold your ears, skip over this really quickly because we are going to take a sip. 234 00:16:15,219.34389441 --> 00:16:18,879.34389441 I'm going to take a sip, and I'm going to be really loud, Please don't, because I have this in front of me. 235 00:16:18,879.44389441 --> 00:16:21,679.34389441 It's going to sound like I'm gargling Drano. 236 00:16:21,789.34389441 --> 00:16:22,859.34289441 Alright, let's do this. 237 00:16:25,329.34389441 --> 00:16:25,969.34389441 Okay. 238 00:16:26,519.34389441 --> 00:16:27,739.34389441 Oh, that's delightful. 239 00:16:27,849.34389441 --> 00:16:28,409.34389441 Oh my god. 240 00:16:28,899.34389441 --> 00:16:31,349.34389441 I love this because it's not fruit forward. 241 00:16:31,629.34389441 --> 00:16:32,19.34389441 I love it. 242 00:16:32,69.34389441 --> 00:16:37,69.34389441 it's like white tea and Jasmine I was going to say yes. 243 00:16:37,189.34389441 --> 00:16:37,949.34389441 Oh my god. 244 00:16:38,89.34389441 --> 00:16:46,59.3438944 this is sort of yeah Yeah, you know, it's that minerality element that's there but it's really intense Like, you know, like you are licking granite. 245 00:16:46,89.3438944 --> 00:16:48,209.3438944 I mean it is like I can feel it on my tongue. 246 00:16:48,209.3438944 --> 00:16:49,639.3438944 There's this wonderful texture. 247 00:16:50,79.3438944 --> 00:16:52,559.3438944 That's the texture really comes through. 248 00:16:52,639.3438944 --> 00:16:59,249.3438944 it's almost like it has a hint of skin contact, even though I know this doesn't, but there is a little bit of a waxiness. 249 00:16:59,249.3438944 --> 00:17:01,189.3428944 It's just, it's precise and beautiful. 250 00:17:01,359.3438944 --> 00:17:01,799.3438944 Yeah. 251 00:17:02,209.3428944 --> 00:17:08,79.3428944 I, this is where we're bringing up Tewar, I don't want to, that's why I brought up the potassium because, it's expert. 252 00:17:08,179.3428944 --> 00:17:15,329.3428944 do not diminish This winery's skill to beautifully interpret this place into this. 253 00:17:16,299.3428944 --> 00:17:22,209.3418944 This is such a modern, beautiful wine that just really does also reflect where it's from. 254 00:17:22,509.3428944 --> 00:17:23,409.3418944 And that's true. 255 00:17:23,539.3428944 --> 00:17:24,729.3428944 terroir is in the soul. 256 00:17:24,869.4428944 --> 00:17:27,342.7095611 Terroir is in the soul. 257 00:17:28,152.7095611 --> 00:17:31,512.7095611 It's, how we describe science. 258 00:17:31,532.7095611 --> 00:17:36,662.8428944 Maybe that's what it is or how we engineer wines to reflect the place we love. 259 00:17:37,62.8428944 --> 00:17:38,242.8428944 That's beautiful, Keith. 260 00:17:38,302.8428944 --> 00:17:39,292.8428944 Oh, we're winding down. 261 00:17:39,382.8428944 --> 00:17:49,142.8428944 At least this glass, Oh, I am actually Okay, first off, before we finish, I just wanted to what would you like to have with this bottle? I have some ideas. 262 00:17:49,542.8428944 --> 00:17:51,662.8428944 Okay, Well, okay, here's the thing. 263 00:17:51,972.8438944 --> 00:17:56,202.8438944 I really think that haddock? Oh. 264 00:17:56,252.8438944 --> 00:17:57,552.8438944 Like a really classic dish. 265 00:17:57,572.8438944 --> 00:18:05,352.8438944 Okay, so this is just like, we're bringing a little bit of like northern, New England Two cents here. 266 00:18:05,792.8438944 --> 00:18:15,822.8438944 So baked haddock just a little bit with chives butter Just a squeeze, you know, just a little bit of squeeze of lemon, just a squeeze of lemon. 267 00:18:16,192.8438944 --> 00:18:19,662.8453944 that old school way where, it's not even close to being, underdone. 268 00:18:19,662.8453944 --> 00:18:26,672.8463944 It's like done almost to the point where it's dry, but it's still because there's enough butter, it's almost a burnt noisette, like it's a burnt butter. 269 00:18:27,177.8463944 --> 00:18:28,607.8463944 right on top, that's what I want. 270 00:18:29,107.8463944 --> 00:18:33,47.8463944 that is where, and then having this as that counterbalance. 271 00:18:33,647.8453944 --> 00:18:35,317.8463944 Do you know what I want with this? No. 272 00:18:35,407.8463944 --> 00:18:39,647.8463944 What's that Thai salad? With the bird peppers. 273 00:18:39,707.8463944 --> 00:18:41,797.8463944 Oh, is it like the papaya salad? Yes. 274 00:18:41,877.8453944 --> 00:18:43,277.8453944 Wouldn't that be good? That would be really good. 275 00:18:43,277.8453944 --> 00:18:44,607.8453944 like level 10. 276 00:18:44,607.9453944 --> 00:18:44,912.9120611 Yeah. 277 00:18:45,293.0120611 --> 00:18:46,673.0120611 But that would be really good. 278 00:18:46,693.0120611 --> 00:18:50,23.0120611 Yeah, and because the papaya in that is always under ripe. 279 00:18:50,123.0120611 --> 00:18:52,73.0130611 It would have to be a very toned down. 280 00:18:52,73.0130611 --> 00:18:52,323.0130611 Yeah. 281 00:18:52,323.0130611 --> 00:18:53,713.0145611 yeah, that's where my mind goes. 282 00:18:53,743.0145611 --> 00:19:04,783.0145611 love that idea Let us know what you think and we'll see you next time And hey, if you have any questions you want us to talk about you want to a Recommendations, anything at all. 283 00:19:04,783.0145611 --> 00:19:06,183.0145611 Look, put it in the notes. 284 00:19:06,373.0145611 --> 00:19:07,683.0145611 make sure you, subscribe. 285 00:19:07,693.0145611 --> 00:19:25,983.0155611 tell your friend that you actually read into us, that you heard this, you like it, love to have as many people listening to us as possible so that we can spread the gospel of just basically being batshit insane, me, and then Alana being the normal person, that's, I think really a good idea. 286 00:19:27,218.0155611 --> 00:19:27,718.0155611 More medic. 287 00:19:27,718.0155611 --> 00:19:33,868.0155611 Oh, can I have some? I need some! Now! Cheers, folks. 288 00:19:37,138.1155611 --> 00:19:40,118.1155611 Thanks for spending time with us on After Wine School. 289 00:19:40,658.1155611 --> 00:19:47,768.1145611 If you enjoyed today's episode, hit subscribe so you never miss out on more wine wisdom, tips, and laughs.
Welcome to After Wine School, the podcast that demystifies wine and makes it approachable for everyone.
Join Keith Wallace and Alana Zerbe, two of the nation's leading wine experts, as they uncork everything you need to know about wine, from picking the right bottle to mastering unforgettable food and wine pairings.
This isn't about stuffy lectures or confusing jargon.
(00:26):
It's about enjoying wine the way it's meant to be.
So grab a glass And let's dive in.
Don't forget to subscribe to After Wine School today.
Hello, hello, hello folks.
Welcome to After School, the Wine Podcast.
(00:48):
Okay, I'm Alana Zerbe, the Director of Wine Education at the Wine School of Philadelphia, and joining me is Mr.
Keith Wallace, the Founder and Director of the Wine School of Philadelphia.
Now, we are sponsored by the National Wine School, the premier online education body, and The legal disclaimer, as always.
(01:11):
Please! Okay.
What is it? The views and opinions expressed here are purely our own, and should not reflect the views and opinions And that's coming from someone who, one of the best white instructors I know, also former lawyer. 14 00:01:30,145.999 --> 00:01:34,326 And apparently I've said some things on this podcast that probably I shouldn't have. 15 00:01:34,326.1 --> 00:01:37,215.899 Indeed. 16 00:01:37,215.999 --> 00:01:37,365.999 Indeed.
(01:37):
It's not surprising. 18 00:01:38,116.1 --> 00:01:39,106 And it will happen again.
Oh, it's going to happen every time.
The question is, what am I going to say? And I don't even know it.
.999apparently some people do, like tweet out, or X out, sorry, certain things I've said, not just here, but actually in class, and apparently there's people who actually want to ask our t shirts, but, you know, I said, please don't do that. 22 00:01:57,215.999 --> 00:01:59,465.9 No swag, no swag.
(01:59):
So Keith, today I have a question to ask you.
I don't want to know what it is.
You do.
No, I don't.
actually one of your favorite things to talk about.
Oh, me? Yes.
Oh, excellent.
So, I was born into a very WASPy family, back in 1825.
Okay.
I've aged very well. 33 00:02:18,410.999 --> 00:02:18,550.999 Wow. 34 00:02:18,950.999 --> 00:02:19,751 Yeah, yeah.
(02:20):
.999Thank you.
So, this is a great podcast.
I love this.
Is that the wine? That's amazing.
It's the wine.
it's also just my general, outlook in life.
Great.
Yeah.
Well, you seem teed up perfectly.
Okay.
To talk about terroir.
Oh, come on. 47 00:02:34,411.1 --> 00:02:35,046 no. 48 00:02:35,46.1 --> 00:02:35,946.1 That's a setup. 49 00:02:37,206.1 --> 00:02:38,356.1 It's my least favorite word. 50 00:02:38,646.1 --> 00:02:39,606.099 It's my least favorite word. 51 00:02:39,806.1 --> 00:02:48,236.1015 So one of the things I do in class, and if you ever take a class with me, especially if you're in a small class with me, one of the first things I do is I basically line everybody up. 52 00:02:48,236.1015 --> 00:02:50,116.1015 Everyone's sitting, well actually they're sitting in their seats. 53 00:02:50,166.1015 --> 00:02:57,646.1015 But I do ask Everybody to repeat after me, terroir is bullshit, terroir is bullshit. 54 00:02:57,956.1015 --> 00:03:01,956.0015 Now, because it is, caveat, 98 percent of the time, 99. 55 00:03:01,956.1015 --> 00:03:07,646.1015 9 percent of the time, I'll even go that far, that terroir is bullshit. 56 00:03:07,646.2015 --> 00:03:10,856.1015 You know, here, okay, let me back up for a second. 57 00:03:11,76.1015 --> 00:03:11,666.1015 Okay. 58 00:03:12,846.1015 --> 00:03:15,146.1015 maybe you should, yeah, yeah, yeah. 59 00:03:15,186.1015 --> 00:03:19,316.1015 Actually, how about you, would you like to describe, Define terms for us. 60 00:03:19,556.1015 --> 00:03:26,106.1015 what is terroir? What's the classical, the classical definition of terroir? Well, I like Matt Kramer, old school. 61 00:03:26,116.1015 --> 00:03:31,636.1015 His definition of terroir is when a wine has a some where ness. 62 00:03:33,116.1015 --> 00:03:34,846.1015 It speaks of a place. 63 00:03:35,296.1015 --> 00:03:36,756.1015 It's not generic. 64 00:03:36,796.1015 --> 00:03:39,276.1015 It can't be mass produced. 65 00:03:39,486.1015 --> 00:03:52,176.1005 It's the unique stamp of a region and it's, climate, precipitation, sunlight, drainage, everything that happened in this small little place in one year. 66 00:03:52,456.1005 --> 00:03:54,586.1005 That's what the wine should display. 67 00:03:55,226.1005 --> 00:03:56,796.1005 Okay, absolutely. 68 00:03:57,516.1005 --> 00:03:57,816.1005 Right. 69 00:03:57,906.1005 --> 00:03:58,826.1005 That is true. 70 00:03:59,146.1005 --> 00:04:07,886.0995 except for the fact that a lot of the same elements are only small percentages of the output. 71 00:04:08,446.1005 --> 00:04:09,166.1015 here's the thing. 72 00:04:09,966.1015 --> 00:04:10,806.1015 Absolutely. 73 00:04:11,226.1005 --> 00:04:13,886.0995 these do change the flavor of wine. 74 00:04:13,886.0995 --> 00:04:19,826.2005 So if you grow a grape on this side of the road and then another acre on the other side you make wine to them. 75 00:04:19,826.2005 --> 00:04:20,696.2005 They're gonna be a little bit different. 76 00:04:20,756.2005 --> 00:04:27,316.1995 There's no arguing that point but It's gonna be such a slight difference. 77 00:04:27,316.1995 --> 00:04:35,241.2005 That's gonna be negligible now The biggest difference of any wine is actually the bacteria load. 78 00:04:35,301.2005 --> 00:04:37,541.2005 Now, this is what we know, I believe in science. 79 00:04:37,641.2005 --> 00:04:38,101.2005 I do. 80 00:04:38,121.2005 --> 00:04:40,61.2005 I believe in what we can prove, what we can show. 81 00:04:40,311.1995 --> 00:04:51,321.2005 And one of the things we can show consistently is that if you are fermenting with native yeasts, you are going to have a very specific flavors. 82 00:04:51,511.2005 --> 00:04:54,781.2005 that's only gonna be replicated if you have those specific native yeasts. 83 00:04:55,441.2005 --> 00:04:57,591.2005 We've replicated all those native yeasts and you can buy them. 84 00:04:57,986.2005 --> 00:05:00,276.2005 I can buy any yeast, almost. 85 00:05:00,916.2005 --> 00:05:01,676.2005 Anywhere in the world. 86 00:05:01,676.2005 --> 00:05:06,136.2005 And if I can't buy it, I can actually contract someone to make it for me. 87 00:05:06,646.2005 --> 00:05:12,766.2005 So I can take those yeast, that bacteria load, the yeast load, replicate that anywhere in the world. 88 00:05:13,86.2005 --> 00:05:25,596.2005 And I have done this for when, once we have like advanced small yeast coming in, you know, they've been with us for a long time that I, you know, that they're like in the last final year of classes, sometimes they get cocky and I've had students who just like. 89 00:05:26,626.2005 --> 00:05:31,166.2005 And they are really good, but they still feel like they know the differences. 90 00:05:31,396.2005 --> 00:05:36,76.2005 what I'll do is I'll pull a bottle of white Burgundy, a really beautiful one, a Montrachet. 91 00:05:36,96.2005 --> 00:05:38,746.2 And then I will grab another bottle from Australia. 92 00:05:38,956.2 --> 00:05:47,746.2 It's actually a French winemaker who's using, the identical same techniques from Montrachet, but also he's imported and uses only those yeasts. 93 00:05:48,351.2 --> 00:05:50,271.2 that wine is identical. 94 00:05:50,551.2 --> 00:05:53,51.2 when you have them taste it blind, you can't tell the difference. 95 00:05:53,111.2 --> 00:06:00,481.2 Okay Keith, so as you're talking, I am picturing some very specific French winemakers. 96 00:06:00,521.199 --> 00:06:00,971.199 Yes. 97 00:06:01,11.2 --> 00:06:07,131.2 And their faces are turning more and more red with every word. 98 00:06:08,831.2 --> 00:06:09,111.2 Yes. 99 00:06:09,121.2 --> 00:06:12,101.2 At this point, they would definitely just throw you out of their winery. 100 00:06:12,451.2 --> 00:06:12,481.2 Yes. 101 00:06:13,471.2 --> 00:06:25,81.2 What would those folks counter? What would they say to you that you might be missing? Most winemakers, behind the scenes, when we talk together, we will all admit these things. 102 00:06:25,331.2 --> 00:06:49,701.199 We'll all admit that we will talk sometimes about place and how great it is, but we'll also have an understanding that the majority of things that we're doing, The yeast we're using, the techniques we're using, how we're harvesting, everything, how, you know, how, how, whether you green harvest or not, how you prune, all these things have a much larger effect than place. 103 00:06:50,211.198 --> 00:06:51,801.199 We'll all admit that in private. 104 00:06:51,801.199 --> 00:06:58,301.199 We can't do that in public because the public at large really wants to know why. 105 00:06:59,81.199 --> 00:07:07,331.199 They're spending 150 for this cabernet from this specific vineyard and 20 for another. 106 00:07:07,341.199 --> 00:07:13,771.199 Like, they have to have a reason other than it's just more expensive because more people want it. 107 00:07:14,61.198 --> 00:07:16,491.199 Or it's more exclusive, there's less of it. 108 00:07:16,501.198 --> 00:07:18,811.198 Like, they don't want to hear economics of winemaking. 109 00:07:18,831.199 --> 00:07:24,381.199 They want to hear there's a real specific difference in somehow it's sold. 110 00:07:24,766.199 --> 00:07:30,476.199 they don't want to hear about clonal differences, which is another huge difference, but okay. 111 00:07:31,776.199 --> 00:07:32,656.199 Let me get back to this. 112 00:07:32,656.199 --> 00:07:33,366.199 I'm sorry. 113 00:07:33,426.199 --> 00:07:33,936.199 I'm sorry. 114 00:07:34,246.199 --> 00:07:35,306.199 You asked me about Terroir. 115 00:07:35,376.199 --> 00:07:35,726.199 was doing. 116 00:07:35,736.199 --> 00:07:37,256.2 No one should ever ask me about Terroir. 117 00:07:37,296.2 --> 00:07:38,256.199 This is a one and done. 118 00:07:38,456.2 --> 00:07:39,626.201 Keith is grumpy. 119 00:07:39,626.201 --> 00:07:41,386.201 He gets to talk about things he hates. 120 00:07:41,676.201 --> 00:07:42,766.201 Oh, podcast. 121 00:07:42,796.201 --> 00:07:43,146.201 Oh no. 122 00:07:43,236.201 --> 00:08:04,166.2 So, When everything else is equal, when everything else is equal, if we separate out all our techniques and all the things we do to make wines, there will always be some wines that we can't explain why they're great. 123 00:08:04,696.2 --> 00:08:10,896.2 There will always be, and I agree with that, like that is true, that there's always going to be a space. 124 00:08:11,671.201 --> 00:08:13,411.201 Base for terroir. 125 00:08:13,421.201 --> 00:08:14,51.201 True terroir. 126 00:08:14,51.201 --> 00:08:22,271.201 There's gonna be, there is something that our science, our knowledge, maybe it will in the future, but right now it can't identify. 127 00:08:23,51.2 --> 00:08:31,433.43265217 we also have, we do know that we have, AI that's, starting to identify variations in things that we didn't even notice. 128 00:08:31,433.43265217 --> 00:08:37,179.39847826 And we may have this, that there is in fact, these elements, these differences. 129 00:08:37,179.39847826 --> 00:08:41,247.08175155 Now, From a bottle that can be traced back to a specific exact. 130 00:08:41,247.08175155 --> 00:08:41,682.76746584 exactly. 131 00:08:41,682.76746584 --> 00:08:44,914.23889441 That's exactly right So this is true. 132 00:08:45,174.23889441 --> 00:09:17,364.23839441 This is absolutely true now But the thing is that that is always going to be a tiny percentage of wines And it's better to actually say terroir is bullshit To say most of what we're hearing when people use that term is not true That allows us to really Open ourselves up for the moment when it is true because there have been moments where Even though I've been teaching about wine for training professionals for 20 years and I went to school for winemaking. 133 00:09:17,414.23839441 --> 00:09:28,114.23839441 I was a winemaker for a good long time Like I know so much But I still always learn more true, but there's always this moment. 134 00:09:28,134.23839441 --> 00:09:32,944.23839441 There's always one every four or five years I have a wine like I don't know why this is so great. 135 00:09:33,244.23839441 --> 00:09:38,34.23839441 Like I know everything they're doing I Can taste all that but there's something else. 136 00:09:38,264.23839441 --> 00:09:39,544.23739441 There's this one spark here. 137 00:09:39,544.23839441 --> 00:09:41,794.23839441 There's one amazing beautiful thing. 138 00:09:42,104.23839441 --> 00:09:44,474.23839441 That's here that I don't know why it's here. 139 00:09:44,504.23839441 --> 00:09:46,564.23839441 It just it lifts me up and such joy. 140 00:09:46,774.23839441 --> 00:10:01,334.23839441 it's like reading you know the ten commandments like the first time you like look at that and you're the first person to look at like Oh, really neighbor's ass what but That moment of revelation, whatever it is for everybody, you know, whatever that moment is that aha, ah, you know, that thing. 141 00:10:01,674.23839441 --> 00:10:04,474.23839441 And I get to have that because I know what it isn't. 142 00:10:05,24.23839441 --> 00:10:06,924.23839441 And I think that's very important too. 143 00:10:07,304.23839441 --> 00:10:19,854.23839441 And I just want to say something that happens every year in the winemaking class, and I think it's absolutely fascinating is, and you'll see this, that there are some people. 144 00:10:20,554.23839441 --> 00:10:27,547.63822774 Who, for whatever reason, you've literally said the yeast is happy when they're there. 145 00:10:27,547.63822774 --> 00:10:28,40.93806108 Yes. 146 00:10:28,40.93806108 --> 00:10:35,154.33939441 So there is this ephemeral side to things, simply that we haven't quantified everything. 147 00:10:35,154.33939441 --> 00:10:37,14.33839441 We don't understand everything. 148 00:10:37,14.33839441 --> 00:10:42,504.33839441 And I think yeast could be pulled towards certain energies or whatever it is. 149 00:10:42,944.33839441 --> 00:10:44,564.33839441 so there's so much that we don't know. 150 00:10:44,654.33839441 --> 00:10:45,554.33839441 That's true too. 151 00:10:45,594.33739441 --> 00:10:48,354.33839441 That's really true and you're right I do say that because it's true. 152 00:10:48,394.33839441 --> 00:10:50,604.33739441 Some people just have that thing. 153 00:10:51,44.33739441 --> 00:10:51,514.33739441 I've heard it. 154 00:10:51,739.33739441 --> 00:10:56,129.33739441 They're nearby and it's always interesting and it's, somebody you don't expect it to be. 155 00:10:56,139.33739441 --> 00:11:04,409.33739441 And you're like, Oh, is that because you're a good person? I don't think that I trust dogs. 156 00:11:04,459.33739441 --> 00:11:08,269.33739441 And he used to tell me who's good and who's bad in the world. 157 00:11:08,329.33739441 --> 00:11:18,124.23739441 actually think it has nothing to Okay, maybe it's just what kind of, laundry detergent they use. 158 00:11:18,204.23739441 --> 00:11:18,934.23739441 Well, I Okay. 159 00:11:19,154.23739441 --> 00:11:25,764.23739441 I think we've arrived at a place that you've definitely put your view out there. 160 00:11:25,804.23839441 --> 00:11:26,114.23839441 Yeah. 161 00:11:26,234.23739441 --> 00:11:38,909.23739441 And, but also left room for the mystery, and I think why we, Are so passionate when something is amazing because it is it does feel like a miracle Oh, yeah, every time I make wine even with my students teaching them how to make wine. 162 00:11:39,379.23839441 --> 00:11:58,244.23839441 It's amazing It is it's such I know all the science, but the fact is that when it happens, you know It just feels like magic every time it is so wonderful the experience i'll never trade it You know, but it's just like being fully vetted into the world and not expecting it to be magic But it still feels like magic and that's wonderful. 163 00:11:58,294.23839441 --> 00:12:01,444.23839441 It always should be like magic Now speaking of magic. 164 00:12:02,34.23839441 --> 00:12:08,134.23839441 Yes Speaking of magic, that is created by completely and utterly precise winemaking. 165 00:12:10,324.23839441 --> 00:12:26,284.23839441 After wine school is proudly supported by the National Wine School, the gold standard, and professional wine certifications, whether you're dreaming of a career in the wine industry or just eager to take your wine knowledge to the next level, the National Wine School has you covered. 166 00:12:26,724.23839441 --> 00:12:32,94.23839441 Their programs are trusted, rigorous, and designed for aspiring wine pros like you. 167 00:12:34,514.23839441 --> 00:12:39,194.23839441 Visit Wine School us to learn more and start your journey today. 168 00:12:40,814.23839441 --> 00:12:43,554.23839441 Certainly, we do have a very special wine today. 169 00:12:43,804.23739441 --> 00:12:50,4.23839441 We are trying a Sancerre, and this is a wonderful producer, Henri Bourgeois. 170 00:12:50,214.23739441 --> 00:12:53,634.23839441 The bottle that we have is Le Côte de Montdanais. 171 00:12:55,249.23839441 --> 00:12:57,39.23839441 nice, let's see if you could pour that for us. 172 00:12:57,259.23839441 --> 00:12:57,579.23839441 All right. 173 00:12:57,579.23839441 --> 00:13:01,659.23739441 Well, I'm not gonna have to thank you the magic of the energy internets. 174 00:13:03,399.23839441 --> 00:13:05,39.23839441 Oh Fantastic. 175 00:13:05,69.23839441 --> 00:13:05,629.23839441 Oh, this is fine. 176 00:13:05,849.23839441 --> 00:13:06,389.23839441 All right. 177 00:13:06,799.23739441 --> 00:13:07,879.23739441 I do love Sancerre. 178 00:13:07,889.23739441 --> 00:13:13,739.23839441 So can we gently cheers? Cheers? There we are All right. 179 00:13:14,229.23839441 --> 00:13:20,984.23839441 Now, let's let's give this a nice swirl Everyone should know their, their S's. 180 00:13:21,64.23839441 --> 00:13:22,924.23839441 C, swirl, sniff, sip. 181 00:13:23,104.23839441 --> 00:13:23,724.23839441 All that. 182 00:13:24,354.23839441 --> 00:13:25,324.23839441 Alright, so. 183 00:13:26,514.23839441 --> 00:13:26,804.23839441 Alright. 184 00:13:28,964.23839441 --> 00:13:30,554.23839441 Precise winemaking. 185 00:13:32,274.23839441 --> 00:13:36,394.23839441 I'm old enough to remember when Sancerre just smelled like cat pee. 186 00:13:36,504.23839441 --> 00:13:38,94.23839441 Like I remember that. 187 00:13:38,234.23839441 --> 00:13:38,434.23839441 Yeah. 188 00:13:38,434.23839441 --> 00:13:39,524.23839441 you do mention that. 189 00:13:39,944.23839441 --> 00:13:40,884.23739441 Yeah, I do. 190 00:13:41,214.23839441 --> 00:13:42,354.23789441 they changed how they made wine. 191 00:13:42,364.23889441 --> 00:13:44,734.23889441 They, they now, instead of allowing. 192 00:13:45,4.23889441 --> 00:13:46,964.23889441 Your bunch is to be covered by leaves. 193 00:13:46,964.23889441 --> 00:14:04,99.23989441 They actually make sure to strip them out which decreases your amount of pyrazine in your grapes sunlight does break it down And then in that cat pee smell anyone who's ever had a cat have you ever had a cat? I have not, You know that male cat pee smell, like when they're marking a territory. 194 00:14:04,199.23989441 --> 00:14:05,129.23989441 oh my God, it's nasty. 195 00:14:05,509.23989441 --> 00:14:05,709.23989441 But yeah. 196 00:14:05,889.23989441 --> 00:14:06,779.23989441 Sunset used to have that. 197 00:14:06,789.23989441 --> 00:14:07,759.23989441 People used to like that. 198 00:14:08,129.23989441 --> 00:14:10,449.24089441 And, I did not, I really did not. 199 00:14:10,769.23989441 --> 00:14:15,524.24089441 I thought it was New Zealand, Sauvignon Blanc, Oh, they, they did. 200 00:14:15,554.24089441 --> 00:14:18,844.24089441 They had the same problem, but Sincere did it way before that. 201 00:14:18,964.24089441 --> 00:14:19,534.24089441 Oh yeah. 202 00:14:19,884.24089441 --> 00:14:20,174.24089441 Oh yeah. 203 00:14:20,174.24089441 --> 00:14:21,94.24089441 No, they were not. 204 00:14:21,104.24089441 --> 00:14:25,544.23989441 And then when they, over the last, you know, 30 years, they've really cleaned out their winemaking. 205 00:14:25,544.23989441 --> 00:14:25,764.23989441 Got it. 206 00:14:26,94.24089441 --> 00:14:26,404.24089441 Yep. 207 00:14:26,544.23989441 --> 00:14:28,694.24089441 But yeah, no, New Zealand had that when they started out. 208 00:14:28,704.23989441 --> 00:14:29,714.24089441 It was gross too. 209 00:14:30,24.24089441 --> 00:14:41,894.24089441 so what are we smelling? all right, so like, so when you have a low level pyrazine, they're using it like as a master painter, like you're leaving that little bit of greenness as freshness underneath. 210 00:14:42,234.24089441 --> 00:14:44,924.23989441 So it is really smelling more floral. 211 00:14:45,424.23989441 --> 00:14:55,474.24089441 And, what, what are you getting? I mean, you're probably getting the same floral or how would you expand on that? I get white floral notes, almost, Like a tea rose, one of those, arrows. 212 00:14:55,474.24089441 --> 00:14:56,454.24089441 Tea rose? Yeah. 213 00:14:56,534.24089441 --> 00:15:00,54.23989441 What is that? The heirloom roses that actually have fragrance. 214 00:15:00,84.23989441 --> 00:15:01,14.24089441 Oh, yeah. 215 00:15:01,24.24089441 --> 00:15:02,554.24089441 They're really, really lovely. 216 00:15:03,184.24089441 --> 00:15:08,14.24089441 I mean, there's also for me lemongrass, some underripe, like, peaches. 217 00:15:08,104.24089441 --> 00:15:09,414.24089441 Oh, yeah. 218 00:15:09,514.24089441 --> 00:15:09,984.24089441 plum. 219 00:15:10,204.24089441 --> 00:15:16,94.24089441 It's nice because there's this very serious, herbaceous, but floral note underneath. 220 00:15:16,954.24089441 --> 00:15:23,4.23989441 But then on top of it is this nice fruit, but it's, that slightly underripe, but also a little bit of underripe, green apple, too. 221 00:15:23,194.24089441 --> 00:15:23,294.24089441 Yes. 222 00:15:23,384.24089441 --> 00:15:24,394.24089441 I really like this. 223 00:15:24,434.24089441 --> 00:15:25,244.24089441 of minerality. 224 00:15:25,314.24089441 --> 00:15:25,604.24189441 Oh, yeah. 225 00:15:25,604.34189441 --> 00:15:26,464.24189441 Always minerality. 226 00:15:28,294.24189441 --> 00:15:29,534.24189441 I can taste the potassium. 227 00:15:33,634.24189441 --> 00:15:43,574.24189441 Because the one of the things about the soil structure here is that they do have a surprising amount of potassium in their soils, which actually is one of the few things that actually, it's a nutrients that they live on. 228 00:15:44,24.24289441 --> 00:15:50,944.24289441 And so, you can actually have a slightly increase of potassium in these wines, and it makes the wines even taste more acidic than they actually are. 229 00:15:50,964.24289441 --> 00:15:56,524.24289441 They're very acidic, but yeah, so, so if you really, anyone wants to be a real douchebag, you can say, potassium. 230 00:15:56,564.24389441 --> 00:16:03,674.24289441 before we take a sip, for anybody out there with misophonia, I think we should come up with a, a cue, maybe earmuffs. 231 00:16:03,724.24289441 --> 00:16:09,694.24389441 Or something to let folks know if you get triggered by the sound of someone taking a sip. 232 00:16:10,99.24389441 --> 00:16:10,689.24389441 Earmuffs. 233 00:16:10,689.34389441 --> 00:16:15,169.34389441 just hold your ears, skip over this really quickly because we are going to take a sip. 234 00:16:15,219.34389441 --> 00:16:18,879.34389441 I'm going to take a sip, and I'm going to be really loud, Please don't, because I have this in front of me. 235 00:16:18,879.44389441 --> 00:16:21,679.34389441 It's going to sound like I'm gargling Drano. 236 00:16:21,789.34389441 --> 00:16:22,859.34289441 Alright, let's do this. 237 00:16:25,329.34389441 --> 00:16:25,969.34389441 Okay. 238 00:16:26,519.34389441 --> 00:16:27,739.34389441 Oh, that's delightful. 239 00:16:27,849.34389441 --> 00:16:28,409.34389441 Oh my god. 240 00:16:28,899.34389441 --> 00:16:31,349.34389441 I love this because it's not fruit forward. 241 00:16:31,629.34389441 --> 00:16:32,19.34389441 I love it. 242 00:16:32,69.34389441 --> 00:16:37,69.34389441 it's like white tea and Jasmine I was going to say yes. 243 00:16:37,189.34389441 --> 00:16:37,949.34389441 Oh my god. 244 00:16:38,89.34389441 --> 00:16:46,59.3438944 this is sort of yeah Yeah, you know, it's that minerality element that's there but it's really intense Like, you know, like you are licking granite. 245 00:16:46,89.3438944 --> 00:16:48,209.3438944 I mean it is like I can feel it on my tongue. 246 00:16:48,209.3438944 --> 00:16:49,639.3438944 There's this wonderful texture. 247 00:16:50,79.3438944 --> 00:16:52,559.3438944 That's the texture really comes through. 248 00:16:52,639.3438944 --> 00:16:59,249.3438944 it's almost like it has a hint of skin contact, even though I know this doesn't, but there is a little bit of a waxiness. 249 00:16:59,249.3438944 --> 00:17:01,189.3428944 It's just, it's precise and beautiful. 250 00:17:01,359.3438944 --> 00:17:01,799.3438944 Yeah. 251 00:17:02,209.3428944 --> 00:17:08,79.3428944 I, this is where we're bringing up Tewar, I don't want to, that's why I brought up the potassium because, it's expert. 252 00:17:08,179.3428944 --> 00:17:15,329.3428944 do not diminish This winery's skill to beautifully interpret this place into this. 253 00:17:16,299.3428944 --> 00:17:22,209.3418944 This is such a modern, beautiful wine that just really does also reflect where it's from. 254 00:17:22,509.3428944 --> 00:17:23,409.3418944 And that's true. 255 00:17:23,539.3428944 --> 00:17:24,729.3428944 terroir is in the soul. 256 00:17:24,869.4428944 --> 00:17:27,342.7095611 Terroir is in the soul. 257 00:17:28,152.7095611 --> 00:17:31,512.7095611 It's, how we describe science. 258 00:17:31,532.7095611 --> 00:17:36,662.8428944 Maybe that's what it is or how we engineer wines to reflect the place we love. 259 00:17:37,62.8428944 --> 00:17:38,242.8428944 That's beautiful, Keith. 260 00:17:38,302.8428944 --> 00:17:39,292.8428944 Oh, we're winding down. 261 00:17:39,382.8428944 --> 00:17:49,142.8428944 At least this glass, Oh, I am actually Okay, first off, before we finish, I just wanted to what would you like to have with this bottle? I have some ideas. 262 00:17:49,542.8428944 --> 00:17:51,662.8428944 Okay, Well, okay, here's the thing. 263 00:17:51,972.8438944 --> 00:17:56,202.8438944 I really think that haddock? Oh. 264 00:17:56,252.8438944 --> 00:17:57,552.8438944 Like a really classic dish. 265 00:17:57,572.8438944 --> 00:18:05,352.8438944 Okay, so this is just like, we're bringing a little bit of like northern, New England Two cents here. 266 00:18:05,792.8438944 --> 00:18:15,822.8438944 So baked haddock just a little bit with chives butter Just a squeeze, you know, just a little bit of squeeze of lemon, just a squeeze of lemon. 267 00:18:16,192.8438944 --> 00:18:19,662.8453944 that old school way where, it's not even close to being, underdone. 268 00:18:19,662.8453944 --> 00:18:26,672.8463944 It's like done almost to the point where it's dry, but it's still because there's enough butter, it's almost a burnt noisette, like it's a burnt butter. 269 00:18:27,177.8463944 --> 00:18:28,607.8463944 right on top, that's what I want. 270 00:18:29,107.8463944 --> 00:18:33,47.8463944 that is where, and then having this as that counterbalance. 271 00:18:33,647.8453944 --> 00:18:35,317.8463944 Do you know what I want with this? No. 272 00:18:35,407.8463944 --> 00:18:39,647.8463944 What's that Thai salad? With the bird peppers. 273 00:18:39,707.8463944 --> 00:18:41,797.8463944 Oh, is it like the papaya salad? Yes. 274 00:18:41,877.8453944 --> 00:18:43,277.8453944 Wouldn't that be good? That would be really good. 275 00:18:43,277.8453944 --> 00:18:44,607.8453944 like level 10. 276 00:18:44,607.9453944 --> 00:18:44,912.9120611 Yeah. 277 00:18:45,293.0120611 --> 00:18:46,673.0120611 But that would be really good. 278 00:18:46,693.0120611 --> 00:18:50,23.0120611 Yeah, and because the papaya in that is always under ripe. 279 00:18:50,123.0120611 --> 00:18:52,73.0130611 It would have to be a very toned down. 280 00:18:52,73.0130611 --> 00:18:52,323.0130611 Yeah. 281 00:18:52,323.0130611 --> 00:18:53,713.0145611 yeah, that's where my mind goes. 282 00:18:53,743.0145611 --> 00:19:04,783.0145611 love that idea Let us know what you think and we'll see you next time And hey, if you have any questions you want us to talk about you want to a Recommendations, anything at all. 283 00:19:04,783.0145611 --> 00:19:06,183.0145611 Look, put it in the notes. 284 00:19:06,373.0145611 --> 00:19:07,683.0145611 make sure you, subscribe. 285 00:19:07,693.0145611 --> 00:19:25,983.0155611 tell your friend that you actually read into us, that you heard this, you like it, love to have as many people listening to us as possible so that we can spread the gospel of just basically being batshit insane, me, and then Alana being the normal person, that's, I think really a good idea. 286 00:19:27,218.0155611 --> 00:19:27,718.0155611 More medic. 287 00:19:27,718.0155611 --> 00:19:33,868.0155611 Oh, can I have some? I need some! Now! Cheers, folks. 288 00:19:37,138.1155611 --> 00:19:40,118.1155611 Thanks for spending time with us on After Wine School. 289 00:19:40,658.1155611 --> 00:19:47,768.1145611 If you enjoyed today's episode, hit subscribe so you never miss out on more wine wisdom, tips, and laughs.
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