Jennie Bovard: Pretty Blind & Pretty Genuine

The funniest stories aren’t the ones built on clichés—they’re the ordinary slip-ups we all share. Think: hopping into the wrong car, or reaching for the bus pole and accidentally grabbing someone’s hand. That’s exactly the kind of humour Jenny Bovard has built into her work. As lead and associate producer of Pretty Blind—a sharp, scripted Canadian comedy about life with low vision and albinism—Jenny is flipping stereotypes on their head and proving that relatability beats “inspiration arcs” every time.

In this conversation, Jenny shares how her hit podcast Low Vision Moments became the seed for Pretty Blind, the magic of writing alongside Jonathan Torrens and Mark Forward, and the behind-the-scenes details of building an accessible set—from tactile floor markers to softer lighting strategies. We dive into the show’s all-out goalball episode (rivalries, ridiculousness, and Paralympic-level laughs), as well as the tech that actually helps in daily life, from iPhone OCR to the promise of smart glasses.

Jenny also opens up about mentoring blind and low-vision youth, the identity shifts of growing up with albinism, and whether she’d restore her vision if given the chance. The throughline? Cast disabled actors as people, design access into the process, and let comedy do what it does best—make us care because we recognize ourselves.

Don’t miss Pretty Blind—stream it now on AMI’s on-demand platform (amiiplus.ca) 

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
And welcome to the afternoon pint.
I'm Mike Dobin.
I am Matt Conrad.
And who do we have with ustoday?
I'm Jenny Bovard.
Jenny, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_05 (00:08):
Thank you so much for having me.
We almost I I forgot to warn youabout the blind cheers, but we
think we did okay.

SPEAKER_02 (00:13):
I think that was actually pretty solid, actually.

SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
We nailed that.

SPEAKER_02 (00:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (00:17):
Did I clang you both?

SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (00:19):
I think so.

SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Well, I mean, we'll play back the tape later.
I don't really know.

SPEAKER_02 (00:22):
I got a double.
I got a double clang for sure.

SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
Okay, cool, cool.
Yeah.
Well, thanks for coming by.
And um, I mean, uh, go back justa few episodes, Jonathan
Torrance.
We were talking about all theprojects he was working on.
One of them was this superinteresting show called The
Pretty Blind.
And uh it was with AMI.
Um, and you were the star ofthat show.

(00:46):
Star, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (00:47):
I'm still not comfortable with that word, but
I'll allow it.
Cool.
All right.

SPEAKER_01 (00:52):
So I guess I want to kind of jump right into that
first.
Like, tell us about this showand about how Jenny's life
created Pretty Blind.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01):
Pretty Blind is a scripted comedy TV series.
And as far as we know, as far asthe team knows, it's the first
time that an actor who is blindand an actor who has albinism,
even calling myself an actor, isstrange.
But uh, it's the first time thatsuch a person has been uh a lead
character in such a show, inCanada at least.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
Wow.

SPEAKER_05 (01:25):
And the really cool thing for me is it's it's weird
to say that I felt a huge senseof responsibility in in my role
in Pretty Blind as the leadactor and also as an associate
producer.
And as you said, the show isloosely based on some of my
lived experiences as a personwho's blind uh and living with
albinism.
But I have felt a huge sense ofresponsibility because this is

(01:48):
really the first time that aperson with albinism and
albinistic qualities, myphysical appearance and someone
who is is living with lowvision, we're not typically
portrayed as like a human being.
We're typically villains or somekind of fantastical creature.
So that was really cool for me.
And then the wholerepresentation piece is really

(02:09):
amazing.
But to try and make a reallylong story short, I had this
podcast for about four years.
It was called Low VisionMoments.
I had way too much freaking fun.
Wow, four years.

SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
That's awesome.
That's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 (02:23):
Thank you.
I think it's a good run for apodcast.
How many episodes is that?
That's a good question.
Uh, approximately one per month.
We'll we'll put that out there.
Great.
Yeah, so that was an incredibleopportunity.
And and so through that, I gotto talk with some really
amazing, influential, and andreally just interesting people

(02:44):
in the blind community.
And I already sort of had my myuh fingers in different places
in the blind community andsports and and some broadcasting
and that kind of thing.
And so I had some community toto draw on and say, hey, come
and be on my podcast.
But then I got to talk to a lotof people who I just always
wanted to speak to, sort ofmaybe at that celebrity level,

(03:07):
uh, stand-up comedians who Iadmire.
And so I collected all thesestories with this Low Vision
Moments podcast, and I thinkthat was really the catalyst for
Pretty Blind.
Also through AMI, I got to workwith a couple of guys at Flow
Video, Mike and Brad.
And they came to me one day andsaid, Hey Jenny, we really
enjoyed working with you on thisDungeons and Dragons

(03:29):
documentary.
We want to do something withmore with you in your podcast.
And I was just like, hell yeah,okay.
Like I have a hard time sayingno to things.

SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Can you follow us for a second on the Dungeons and
Dragons documentary?
Okay, okay, guys.

SPEAKER_05 (03:43):
I'm not, I don't love my performance in this, in
this documentary.
I'm a participant in this reallycool doc called uh Dark Vision,
and it's really centered aroundum a group of us who are blind
and low vision playing Dungeonsand Dragons and learning how to
make it accessible uh withdifferent levels of vision.

SPEAKER_03 (04:02):
Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_05 (04:04):
And, you know, I may or may not have tried on some
really bad accent, uh, but itwas a lot of fun.
And so these two guys came to meand said, hey, we want to work
with you some more.
And and, you know, I don't know,we mulled over a bunch of
different little ideas that wecould do with the stories from
the podcast because they'rethey're they're so funny.

(04:26):
Like they're I would be gettingmessages from people who say,
I'm walking down the streetlistening to your podcast, or
I'm in a public place and I'mjust losing it laughing and it's
embarrassing.
And I'm like, Yes, that'sexactly what I wanted.
And then I would get messagesfrom parents of kids who are
blind and they're like, I'mlistening to your podcast and
it's making so much sense.
And I'm little Timmy's listeningto it with me.

(04:49):
And I'm like, ooh, you better becareful what episodes you listen
to.
Uh, because we certainly wadedinto territory that a lot of, I
don't know, things that we don'tnecessarily talk about in the
open in the blind community,like, you know, how your white
king can maybe make you feellike a vulnerability, it can
make you feel more vulnerable.
And and you know, like how doyou how do you meet up with a

(05:10):
date if you're blind?
Like, how do you go find them atthe restaurant?
How do you disclose that?
And what crazy shit do you getinto like?
That's an interesting concept.

SPEAKER_02 (05:19):
That's a thing I never really thought about.
Yeah, like do we talk aboutblind dates, but like literally,
like literally blind date,right?
Literally, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (05:26):
Like we we were great to bump up bump right into
you literally right in front ofthe garrison brewery here today.
Yeah, so that made it like supereasy for us to find each other.

SPEAKER_05 (05:34):
Yeah, turned the corner, was like, hey, I was
like, hey, couple, a couple offriendly guys, or are these the
guys that I'm supposed to bemeeting?
My my plan was actually, andthis is like blind logistics.
I was planning to get hereearly, post up in here so y'all
could come and find me.

SPEAKER_03 (05:48):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (05:49):
I didn't have to go looking for you.
Um, but I mean, so this thispodcast, we collected all these
incredible stories, and they'rethe things that just happen when
you're trying to go about yourday.
You know, they they'reembarrassing, they're
frustrating.
Speaking of like just a nightout, I was out out on for a
birthday dinner with a couple ofmy girlfriends, and we had a

(06:11):
couple of drinks, of course, andone of their partners was coming
to pick us up.
And I'm the one with the mostsight.
So I'm like, oh, that looks likeso-and-so's car.
That's definitely your man'scar.
Let's all pile in the back seatbecause I'm the one with like
the most vision.
I really only have between fiveand ten percent vision compared
to what you all see with perfecteyesight.

(06:32):
So just to give it a bit ofcontext, but I ushered us all
into the car, come to find outit was the wrong car.
We're all in the backseat, buteveryone had a great laugh.
And and and again, it's likeyou're embarrassed in the
moment, but you have to have alaugh about it afterward because
like that person driving thatcar, they now have a fantastic
story to go and tell people foryears to come.

SPEAKER_02 (06:52):
Yes, you actually probably made that person's
night slash like maybe week ormonth, because that story coming
from some my father is you know,he has wears glasses, but he's
not visually impaired, and he'sgotten into a few vehicles that
he thought people were pickinghim up and things, and these
stories are still told yearslater.
So you probably actually reallymade someone's day and has you

(07:14):
know made several people's day.

SPEAKER_01 (07:16):
I've gotten the wrong vehicle just not paying
attention.

SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
That does not surprise me.

SPEAKER_05 (07:19):
I say this often about low vision moments and
blind moments, like they canhappen to all of us, of course,
yeah.
We're just this is more likelyto happen to us.
So getting back to how PrettyBlind came about, I don't know
how all the magic happenedbehind the scenes, but Brad and
Mike and I, we you know, we cameup with a a concept script and
and we brought it uh to AMI, thebroadcaster, and we said we, you

(07:41):
know, we really like to do thisthing, and it was still still
fictionalized, but I'm the maincharacter, and there happens to
be another character whose nameis Eve, and my husband is also
named Eve, but they're nottogether yet.
And so there's a you know,there's an air of romance in
there too.
Will they, won't they?
And so AMI loved the idea, andthey were kind of like, why

(08:01):
haven't we thought of this?
And they were able to connect uswith uh Jonathan Torrens and the
dream team that I ended upgetting to work with.
I I still ask myself, whatbusiness do I have working with
these professionals?
But um they, you know, they theymade those connections, and AMI,
luckily at the time, was uhreally looking to shift to get

(08:24):
into scripted stuff.
They had really never done thatbefore.
And so this is really new forthe broadcaster, too.
It's all new for all of us.
And and Jonathan went andlistened to the podcast, and he
told me he found it funny, and Igot to meet him, and it was all
just very say yes to everything,Jenny, because this is uh

(08:46):
unbelievable what's happening.
And and then it all came out ofthat.
Oh my god, that was a longanswer.
That was a great answer.

SPEAKER_01 (08:54):
That's that's perfect podcast answer.
100%.
Like, so like I mean, what whatI I feel I like about this show
is I kind of go back to what yousaid.
You just said it for a moment,but you know about vinyl low
vision folks.
I mean, talk about uh aone-dimensional character if
they ever do get showed ontelevision, right?
So, what's really cool aboutthis show, in my opinion, is
that you get to kind of show thecomplexities of everyday life.

(09:17):
And all the things you'redescribing to me, it comes to
mind is like Seinfeld almost,sort of like a classic
contemporary uh kind of stylesitcom where you're just living
your life, right?
And that's what you were aimingfor, right?
Like you wanted to have a showwhere you're just living your
life.

SPEAKER_05 (09:31):
That's exactly it.
And and it's and it's bringingpeople along who maybe don't
have that personal connection todisability or blindness or low
vision or albinism.
There's a little bit ofeverything in there because we
were really lucky to haverepresentation from other people
living with blindness, which wasreally cool.
In one episode, we have sixactors who are blind, and I

(09:53):
don't think that's ever happenedin one space.
May maybe, maybe I'm wrongthere, but it feels like that's
pretty monumental.
Um, and and so yeah, we're we'rebringing people along for that
experience, you know, and andit's not to make people who
don't get it feel bad about notgetting it, but with the magic

(10:16):
ingredient of comedy in there, Ithink that's what kind of
removes the shame of like notknowing and just like have a
laugh with us about this.

SPEAKER_03 (10:25):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (10:25):
We're all ignorant about something.
I don't know everything abouteveryone else's experience.
And if you can learn a littlesomething by witnessing, there's
one scene where I'm having areally awkward interaction with
a man at a bus stop, and he'sasking some really intimate
questions that you would you andI, I would imagine that the
three of us would not evenfathom asking such questions of

(10:48):
a of a complete stranger at abus stop.
So I those things really happen.
And peop people behave strangelytoward blind people, and it and
it challenges us on the daily.

SPEAKER_02 (11:03):
I think that's the but that's the good thing about
having a comedy, is it's you wecan all laugh together.
And uh I think you know, peoplecan become uncomfortable because
they're not a hundred percentsure what they should do.
And they they so the intentionis good.
It's like, hey, I don't want tooffend you and do something that
would be offensive, so now Ijust like you you almost kind of

(11:24):
like recoil back or like you'rejust kind of like what do I do
here?
Right?
And it becomes an awkwardsituation, which I know not from
a person with like any type ofsight issues would be, but I I
know from talking with otherpeople that you know if you if
you pick up an accent and youdon't understand that and you're
like I'm sorry, what did yousay?
You didn't do anything wrong,you're not you're you're not um

(11:47):
you're not being mean, you'reactually trying to make sure you
heard what they said properly,but but that reminds them that
also I didn't say that right.
I'm different than you, andthings like that.
Like that's something that canalso happen.

SPEAKER_05 (12:00):
It it we're all human, yeah.
Right?
We're we're all human beings,and I think that's one of the
things I I'm trying to drivewe're trying to drive home with
the exceptional writing that Ihad so much help with in telling
these stories.
Mark Forward and again JonathanTorrens, and and we had another
uh comedian, Dan Baraberger, whoalso lives with with um partial

(12:23):
sight.
He he was in the writer's roomtoo.
So we had all these peoplebuilding this world, and you
know, the thing is, is is it'severyday life and it's relatable
stuff.
We've we all have a boss thatwe've been like, okay, that boss
means well, but like they reallyshouldn't have said that in that
way.

(12:43):
Um like a Michael Scott kind ofmoment, like a Michael Scott,
you got it exactly.
It's definitely that kind offeeling.
Um but yeah, it's just it's weare just everyday people going
about our lives, and theseembarrassing things happen, and
the world around us doesn'tnecessarily get it.

SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
Yeah, yeah.
But it's good to laugh about it.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, like I have to ask, now alow vision person working with
other low vision people, mygosh, I've directed plays and
theater plays.
Now, I've never directed a bunchof folks with low vision.
I imagine that would be a wholenew challenge in terms of
framing and setting a scene andhaving people looking and being

(13:21):
in it, blocking stuff like that.
How did you guys address thosechallenges?

SPEAKER_05 (13:25):
The exercise of of of okay, let me start again.
Sure.
So pretty blind in this thisemployment experience for me, I
have never felt more seen,heard, understood in my life.
And I never thought I'd say thatabout the TV industry.
I have a diploma in film and TVproduction.

(13:48):
I went to college wanting to bebehind the camera, wanting to be
behind the scenes.
And all of a sudden, I'm infront of the camera.
Um, when I tried out, when Itried getting into that industry
way back when, I learned veryquickly it, I didn't know what
my needs were.
And I don't think people wouldhave heard and understood my

(14:09):
needs at those time at thattime.
And this this team that has beencarved out for pretty blind is
still a very special and uniquething because we had to make a
lot of we had to address a lotof really real barriers, okay.
All the way so it it startedfrom pre-pre-production.

(14:31):
I had to explain from theget-go, you know, things like
light sensitivity.
If you imagine a TV set, thereare bright lights.

SPEAKER_01 (14:40):
Very bright lights, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (14:42):
So we took all of my needs and my access needs and
the other needs of the otheractors who are blind and have
different needs.
The production team took themand like they relished in the
challenge.
Like they were so our directorof photography, Tim
Montbourquette, he really uhproblem solved so well with the

(15:07):
lighting.
And what he did is he found uhcameras that didn't require as
much light.

SPEAKER_01 (15:12):
Okay, okay, all right, right, used a high
exposure kind of to get morelight in with uh that that makes
a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_03 (15:18):
The phone looks great, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (15:21):
I've seen trailers, clips, it looks very uh, you
know, very modern, modernistpicture, professionally done.

SPEAKER_05 (15:27):
Yeah, and and and again, just talking about being
on set and light sensitivity,even getting my makeup done.
Oh yeah.
Um, you know, the the artistswere were the makeup artists,
hair hairstylists, they werelike, Yeah, we we can do it in a
darker space.
It's fine.
Like typically we'd have bigbright lights on you, but we we
can work with this.

(15:48):
Uh crew would be blocking outall the windows on set, so there
were there was no likeinconvenient lights coming in.
Uh the set environment itself,uh, there were always clear
paths of travel.
So that is something that maybewould help everyday sets in
increasing access, right?

(16:09):
Um, and you know, Jonathan hassome experience working with an
actor who's a wheelchair user onother projects.
And so I think he's already umhad some experience thinking
outside the box to use thecliche, right?
Um if there's a need, if there'sa barrier, there's a way to
address it.
And they really um, you know,they really they they really

(16:31):
took up the challenge.
Like the whole crew reallyunderstood the assignment.
And I credit that mainly toJonathan.
He's not only an amazing writer,director, actor, he's so
incredibly talented, um, buthe's a really good leader and a
mentor as well uh on set andgetting everyone to sort of buy
in and understand what theassignment is.
And so we always had clear pathsof travel with myself and with

(16:53):
the other actors.
Um, we would have time anytimethere was a set change, you
know, like every ever within ascene, things are being moved
around constantly.
And when you're blind, you tendto need to come in and orient
yourself to the space,especially if you're gonna be
moving around that space andtrying to look natural like an
actor or something.

(17:13):
Um, and so um, you know, we wereallowed uh time every every time
the lights and the cameras movedand shifted, every time we
changed locations, we were giventime ahead of time to come in
and and get familiar with thespace.
And we use tactile markers onthe floor instead of like a
visual mark.

SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
Okay, I was yeah, on the mark, hit your mark.
That was like the number onething in my mind when I asked
that question.

SPEAKER_05 (17:34):
Yeah, and there's there's there are other ways of
doing that too, right?
Like you we we put like a littletactile rope underneath the the
markers on set, and that'ssomething that I took from a
sport goalball that I play,where we use tactile indicators
on the floor to me on the cord.

SPEAKER_02 (17:49):
So gold ball, I was gonna ask about this.

SPEAKER_05 (17:51):
Oh, that's a whole other conversation.

SPEAKER_02 (17:53):
There's someone we work with that her uh their
daughter, I think, plays goalball.
Oh, I probably know them.
Yeah, so it's a it's a it's awhole thing.
It's it's a pr I've seen videos.
Goldball is a sport, man.
It's a serious sport.
Yeah, and it's fun to watch.
We have some good teams here inNova Scotia.
I know that they've gone to likenationals and stuff like that
too.

SPEAKER_05 (18:11):
I mean international.
So just recently, the Canadianmen's team represented,
obviously represented Canada atWorlds in Brazil.
Half of that team is from NovaScotia.
Wow, three of the six playerswere from Nova Scotia.

SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Why do you think it's making such great athletes
from Nova Scotia in this sport?

SPEAKER_05 (18:28):
I I honestly I think it's the dedication of a handful
of individuals.
Our organization is a hundredpercent volunteer run.
Our coaches are volunteers, andthe participation and the
dedication doesn't compare toanywhere else across the
country.
I said it.

SPEAKER_01 (18:42):
There you go.
No, that's shots fired.
Oh god, I'd like to come back toGoldball, but just just to back
on the show, I I just reallywanted to know about like
critical reception.
Like, you know, how has thisshow been received?
Or have you got how have you gotfeedback?
People have been positive ornegative, like what's the
general feedback you've receivedso far?

SPEAKER_05 (19:01):
I am pleased to say I've not had any negative
feedback, which is really,really nice.
It's been the most rewardingresponses I've received have
been from people in mycommunity, particularly the
people in the uh my albino mafiafamily.
Albinomafia.

(19:21):
Okay.
Okay.
Albino Mafia is a family of theoverarching blind mafia
organization.
Another another discussion foranother day.

SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
I want to stay here for a minute.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So so you have uh a group offriends uh uh that that all have
uh uh uh low vision and and arealbino, or is that anyone with
albinism is in the albino mafia,whether whether they know it or
not.

SPEAKER_05 (19:44):
Okay, uh it's it's just I call it the albino mafia
because it's a very exclusiveclub.
We're like one in 20,000 inNorth America.
Yeah, it's quite it's quite rarealbinism, and uh and and so
getting responses from peoplewho are like, oh my god, I've
been there.
This is so funny.
I've experienced this in thegrocery store, and they're just

(20:06):
like like laughing and relating.
And that's that's why I made thepodcast, and that's what I love
about Pretty Blind is it's likeit's so relatable for us, and
there's nothing out there likethat for us where we're like,
haha, that boss, like that bossis clueless.
What do they mean?
Put the computer back to normal.
Don't they know what zoom textis?

(20:28):
But it's it's just like it'sit's our thing, and again, Cosa
Nostra, our thing.
Uh, I don't I don't know if youcan keep that in.
But that's fine.
That's fine.
Um but it's it's a it's a verylike it's so relatable, and and
that's the feedback that I'vereally enjoyed.
But you know, we've already beenrenewed for a season two.

SPEAKER_01 (20:46):
Amazing.

SPEAKER_05 (20:47):
So if that says anything, that I'm super proud
to say that.

SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
I'd love to see something like this on Netflix
or something, though, right?
I mean it's it's cool that it'son AMI in and but I really think
that it has the type ofpotential where I think
everybody should be able to findthe show easily.
Like AMI, can you can you juststream that channel
individually?
Is it free?

SPEAKER_05 (21:06):
Yeah, right on.
So what's really great about AMIis it it is a cable TV channel.
Full disclosure, guys.
I don't have cable anymore.

SPEAKER_00 (21:13):
No, no, just no, no, not many people.
What?
What?
This show's over.

SPEAKER_05 (21:19):
All the best, all the best stuff on AMI.
You can stream it on demand atamiiplus.ca.
Oh, don't don't fool with theapp.
Don't fool around with the app.

SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
It's not good good to just stream on the uh on the
laptop or phone or whatever.
Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_02 (21:33):
But it's true to see it.
I mean, I think I personallythink, and I'm sure everyone
around this table does, that weneed to see more Canadian
content on like Netflix andthings like that, right?
Um it's becoming a big theme ofthis year.
It's becoming a big theme.
I I honestly I don't know howDisney to take shots, I guess,
from Disney Plus.
I don't know how Disney Plusgets away with it.
I think it's just they theanything that Ryan Reynolds is

(21:54):
in.

SPEAKER_01 (21:54):
They were told that they had to do it, and then most
of the streaming services saidno.
Yeah.
That that was the end of it.
Netflix is the only one thatactually seems like they're
trying.
Netflix was doing a lot earlyon, and Netflix was also getting
bullied the hardest by the CRTCin the beginning, right?
Like, and and then, you know,eventually they're just big
enough that uh they're like,what are you gonna do?
Take it away, or what are youmad at you, Canada?

(22:15):
They can't do that.
They pretty much do that, Ithink.

SPEAKER_02 (22:18):
But I do feel like Netflix tries at least.
They do have like a Canadianspot, and like some things have
come and gone on there.
Like, but I mean I've I've likeI mean Crave does a pretty good
job.

SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
Crave does do a good job.
But I think they get money too.
Like, I think they get likeCRCTC dollars, and then also to
be a cable provider, you've gotto spend so much of your keep
back on Canadian content.
So they have a relationshipwhere even though they're a
streaming service, becausethey're also like Super Bell,
yeah, right, they have to butthey do have to give some of

(22:49):
that money back.
Even Eastling has to like put somuch money, like they're like a
private, smaller company, andthey have to put so much money
into their community TV becauseof the regulations with CRTC and
stuff.
So it's it's challenging when itgets outside of that, when it
gets outside of cable andstreaming, it I think it's I
think it's really really toughfor them to get Canadian content

(23:10):
on.

SPEAKER_02 (23:10):
I I but the thing is like listening to your show, and
it sounds like uh because I nowI'm I very much actually want to
go back and like watch thisthing.
Um it sounds like they've done areally great job at not like
kind of making it like the tokenthing, and they they've done it
well where everyone can't.

SPEAKER_05 (23:31):
Yeah, and I'm not inspirational.
Yeah, I'm not here to inspireanybody, yeah.
I'm not particularlymotivational, I'm I'm not
exceptional, and I think thatthat's part of the trope that
we've been fed over, I don'tknow, forever.
That and and as a blind person,even growing up as a blind

(23:53):
person, that's kind of what Iexperienced is like you're
either like some super talentedmusician, or you're super
academic, or you're like gonnaclimb Everest.
And it's just like, yo, I justwant to go to work and like
maybe find a man and like have abeer and go for a bike ride.
You know, I just want to enjoymyself, like, sure, I have

(24:15):
goals.
Um, but you know, I'm not thethe show is not meant to be
inspirational or motivational,and I think I actually say that
we took some verbiage from myexisting podcasts uh because in
the show I'm a bit of anaspiring podcaster.
You guys might really like it,it might be a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 (24:34):
This is like I I'm definitely gonna go and check it
out.
I try to support uh a lot ofCanadian content, and I honestly
I feel that Canada puts out someI don't know, I I don't know how
to kind of like really but theythey've nailed certain things
that are a little bit different,better than some shows that I

(24:56):
feel that like the United Statesdoes, right?
Like they've had Little Mosqueon the Prairie, they've had Kim
Kim's Convenience and thingslike that, like where you can
cover off people who are in likeminority type situations and do
it where you're just showingtheir life and it's not a
novelty.

SPEAKER_05 (25:13):
I couldn't agree more.
I think if we keep making it,the the attention and the
streaming services hopefullywill come.
Maybe if I get the blind mafiato start writing some letters.

SPEAKER_03 (25:27):
There you go.

SPEAKER_05 (25:27):
But I think that I think the key is to keep making
the stuff and keep doingwhatever we can do to expose
people to it.
Yeah.
You know, I think of man,there's so much good Canadian
content out there.
I just re- I just re-watched uhPonty Pool.
It's a Bruce McDonald movie.
Oh, okay.

(25:48):
Okay.
It's like uh it's like a zombiemovie, but not a zombie movie.
It's so uniquely Canadian.
I'm not gonna give it away.
If I tell you more about it,it'll just be a big thing.
Ponty pool.
How do you spell Ponty?
P-O-N-T-Y.
Okay.
P-O-O-L.
Cool.
And then I just watched Foobaragain on the book.
Yeah, Foobar is great.

SPEAKER_01 (26:06):
They got a Foobar 2 coming out now.

SPEAKER_05 (26:07):
Foobar 2.
Just around the corner.
Yeah.
It's endless.

SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
Yeah.
Awesome.
So do you think you can make usa uh gold ball movie next?
Is that going to be in theworks?
I mean, it needs to happen.

SPEAKER_05 (26:18):
We can compromise.
There's a gold ball episode.
There's a whole gold ballepisode.
Oh, really?
Oh, yeah.
And I've got and I there's arival team.

SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
That's exactly what I want to see.
I think that would be funny.

SPEAKER_05 (26:29):
Ridiculous.
It's a ridiculous episode.
But it does a good job at again,sort of introducing the sport of
gold ball in a not boring way,in an accessible way, in a funny
way, too.

SPEAKER_02 (26:40):
It's like dodgeball, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (26:42):
It's like the opposite of dodgeball.
We are literally throwingourselves in front of the ball
to keep it from going into ournext one.

SPEAKER_02 (26:48):
I meant the episode and the movie dodgeball kind of
thing where they focus on therivalry and stuff.
Did you ever see the moviedodgeball?
Yeah, I saw the movie dodgeball.
Dodge a wrench, you candodgeball.
That's the best part of thewhole movie.
Now in Goldball, they'rethrowing wrenches at each other.
Just to build up the endurance.

SPEAKER_03 (27:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
That'd be awesome.
Yeah.
Cool.
Starting scene.
Yeah, you ready for additionsfor the team.

SPEAKER_02 (27:12):
People just standing there flexing and throwing
wrenches at them.

SPEAKER_05 (27:17):
You gotta make the wrench audible though.

SPEAKER_02 (27:19):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (27:20):
You gotta put like a beeper or some shit on it to
give the blind people a chance.

SPEAKER_01 (27:24):
Oh, that's true.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (27:26):
We're all blindfolded out there.

SPEAKER_01 (27:27):
Amazing.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (27:29):
It's pretty cool.
So yeah, I mean, like it's it'sit's cool that they um I mean, I
don't know where goldball camefrom or where it was invented or
anything like that, but it's Ican tell you.
Oh, please.
So it was a history.

SPEAKER_05 (27:42):
Goldball was invented post-World War II in an
effort to help rehabilitateveterans who had been blinded or
had lost some of their vision.
Yeah, and and it has since grownexponentially since then.
Wow.
In the 70s, it became aParalympic sport, and uh now
it's it's growing just againexponentially internationally

(28:04):
and in Canada.
In Canada, we're actually justhaving our um first dedicated
goal ball court built in inOntario, so that's coming.
So the national team will havesomewhere to compete.
But uh yeah, so it it we youthey used to play on a on a on
car a carpeted surface aspainful as that's oh cool.

(28:25):
So it has evolved a lot, andeven since I've been playing,
the rules have evolved a bit tomake it a more uh to make it a
faster, uh, more competitivesport.

SPEAKER_02 (28:34):
Do you know whereabouts like it was where it
was created?
That's a good question.

SPEAKER_05 (28:37):
I th I think it's American.

SPEAKER_02 (28:39):
Yeah, American yeah.
I think so.

SPEAKER_01 (28:40):
Yeah, that's cool though.
Like it's great.
His name, Goldball.
Yeah, it's just sostraightforward.
I just found out about it's likethree years ago.
I like I like it.
It's just to the point.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (28:51):
Just figured out like I just heard about it three
years ago.
I had no idea it was a thing,and then uh yeah, someone I work
with mentioned it and uh saidthat they're you know they and
they do a lot of work withinthat community, uh like the gold
ball community.
Um and uh yeah, so they we wewere getting updates on all the
things.
So I feel like I'm up to date onit.

(29:11):
I just I gotta go and actuallywatch a game, I think.

SPEAKER_05 (29:14):
There they're we're seeing a lot more international
coverage, which is which isreally nice too, to have like
live commentary and play byplay, and uh the world's
competition that was allstreamed online, but even during
the Paralympics, there's alittle bit of coverage on the
CBC, which is incredible.

SPEAKER_01 (29:30):
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 (29:32):
I don't know.
I I I don't know why more peoplearen't watching Goldball who are
not blind.
It's extremely entertaining.
When you think about it, it'ssix blind people throwing a ball
as hard as they can at oneanother, and they're throwing,
they're diving at all costs,throwing themselves in front of
this ball.

SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
Sounds awesome to me.
Honestly, it sounds like whenwhen someone explains it like
that, it almost sounds like thisis mean and cruel to people, but
it's brutal.

SPEAKER_05 (29:59):
The guy is.
Throw the ball like 65kilometers an hour at another
human being.

SPEAKER_02 (30:05):
Yeah.
That's legit.
I've seen some videos.
Like I've watched some videos,but I haven't actually watched
them watching full game, butI've watched some videos.
I watch clubs of stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's it uh yeah, it it itdefinitely seems like it would
be a highlight blooper reel,that's for sure.
No.

SPEAKER_05 (30:20):
We host a uh tournament here in October.
So I'll send you guys thedetails.

SPEAKER_01 (30:25):
Maybe AP should go to the tournament, dude.
Are we gonna be uh because wecut we cover events now?
We're we're big media Mongols.
We just did the Moguls?

SPEAKER_04 (30:38):
You gotta edit that out.
No, we'll keep what's it youcan't say that.

SPEAKER_01 (30:41):
Oh, okay.
We're big media moguls.
Yeah, moguls.
That's awesome.
I said the wrong word, I'msorry.
I think I should leave it injust just just uh for
educational purposes.
For educational purposes, yeah.
Um completely off track in herenow.
Okay, um, but uh where was Icompletely off track?

(31:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (31:02):
So we're gonna because we're huge moguls in
media now, we're gonna go coveran event.
We're gonna go watch this goalball uh uh tournament.
Gold ball, yeah.
You'd be welcome to mediamoguls, yes, Atlanta Canadian.
Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 (31:17):
But you have to be quiet while the ball is in play.

SPEAKER_02 (31:19):
Yeah, yeah, you can't talk during the yeah,
because they get to hear theball move.
Right.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Oh, so okay, yeah, we'll we'll figure this out.

SPEAKER_02 (31:27):
Yeah, there's no uh music during or all that stuff,
and like whatever, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (31:31):
So this could be really cool.
Uh listen, you anyone whowatches golf, what what date is
it?
What's uh in October, do youknow?
I don't know off the top of myhead.
No, that's okay.
We'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_05 (31:39):
I'm not a good board member.

SPEAKER_01 (31:41):
No, that's all right.
Um, I just want to ask a littlebit about your career now.
Like, so what um you know, whatdo you do when you're nine to
five?
You had a pretty interestingjob.

SPEAKER_05 (31:51):
By day, people trust me to be a mentor for children
and youth who are blind and havelow vision.
And so I work I work withschool-aged kids and sometimes
uh kids younger than that andtheir families, and and and it's
an organization that I wasserved by when I was
school-aged, and and theyequipped me with things like uh,

(32:13):
you know, like learning how toget around independently and
safely, and learningmagnification and and how to do
all those really practicalthings and how to be successful
in school and learning all theright technologies uh and access
technology and that kind ofthing.
And so I don't really do thosethings.
I get to do the more, I get todo everything else.

(32:35):
I get to do all the fun stuff.
So, you know, how do you findfun and recreation and what
you're interested in when, youknow, mm maybe uh the typical
things at school aren't builtfor you, aren't accessible for
you.
You know, um, how can we makephys ed class?
Do what do they call it now?
Do they do they call it phys ed?

SPEAKER_04 (32:56):
I call I still call it gym.

SPEAKER_00 (32:57):
I don't know what they call it now.

SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
Let's just call it.
I know the kid goes to it, Ijust don't forget what she calls
it.
She she does not like going toit.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (33:04):
Most of us didn't.

SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (33:05):
Uh for different reasons.
But and so I get to I get to doall the fun stuff and and and
and sometimes the more difficultconversations like dealing with
um your blind identity, I guessI I would call it.
So, you know, typically at 16you're looking at getting your
driver's license.
So guess what?
They don't let us drive.
And that is a big uh that's abig deal, right?

(33:28):
Um, and so I get to do uh thatkind of stuff and and support
families and and learners andhelp them enjoy life and and
make the most of it.
So that's really rewarding.
Um and and then I'm reallyhoping to get back into the
podcasting thing though, becausethis is just like a little fix
and I really like it.

SPEAKER_01 (33:46):
Oh, I love it.
Yeah, but like I mean that'sthat's so cool.
You provide like mentorship.
You you really show people likeyou're someone who kind of made
it in a sense, and kind of, youknow, really um, you know, you
can live a life and you have ayou can have a future because
when you're a teenager growingup, I'm sure there's probably
days where you just feel prettyhopeless as you see your friends
succeed at things and go throughlife.

(34:07):
It'd be pretty tough.

SPEAKER_05 (34:08):
It's it's a lot of work living with a disability,
right?
Like it's not like it can't bedone.
It's not like you can't have a aa good successful life.
It's just let's face it, it's ait's more work.
There, there's there are morehours and planning and and
devices and technologies tolearn.

(34:30):
Um, and and then once youembrace those things, it gets a
lot smoother.
But when you are at school aged,you just want to blend in and
fit in with everyone.
So whipping out your white caneat recess or you know, asking a
friend to help you find theother group of friends because
you don't know where they wenton the school playground, like

(34:50):
these are real things that thesekids have to deal with.
And so to build up theresilience and the confidence to
do that, um, you know, talkingwith people like me, but also
spending time with peers toreally normalize things, that's
huge, right?
Finding people who get it andwho you can have those
conversations with, um, that'sthat's really huge.

SPEAKER_01 (35:10):
Are you are you hopeful for like any of the
technologies that are becomingavailable to help with vision?
Like, because I mean it seemslike there's been some major
advancements in this in the lastfew years.
It's hard to know what's realand what's not.
Because if you see it onInstagram one day, they're like,
you can cure blindness with apill.
And but then like an you knowwhat I mean?
So you really don't know whatwhat's what anymore.
But when you look at the thescientific journals and stuff,

(35:33):
it seems like they're making aton of advancements in this
field.

SPEAKER_05 (35:36):
It is, it is mind-blowing.
It is a totally different worldthan when I was in school.
I, you know, used to carryaround a handheld analog
magnifier, like a magnifyingglass.
And I used to have to print offMapQuest maps and memorize them.
Y'all remember Map?
Are you guys old enough forMapQuest?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (35:54):
I think we're already at the same age, but
MapQuest, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (35:58):
Uh and and so I used to it, I used to have to uh uh,
you know, have all thesedifferent devices, and then when
I would use a computer, I wouldneed additional softwares and
all these extra things.
And and now my iPhone does allthat shit.
It's a one-stop shop.
It's like a one, it's one thing.
It's my magnifier, it's my maps.

(36:18):
I can take a photo of a menu andhave it read me audibly what's
on the menu because of octopoptical character.
I almost said optic octopus,optical character recognition,
which is like not even a newtechnology.
It's just new in our phones.
And the big thing now is metaglasses.

SPEAKER_03 (36:39):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (36:40):
I'm just waiting for all the glitches for a few
versions to come out before Iinvest in them.
But that's a game changer to beable to walk down the street and
like for example, just outsideof this tap room, I had no idea
what that sign said out there.
I almost walked into the wrongdoor.
If I had the meta glasses, Icould have just looked up at the

(37:00):
sign, asked it to read it to me,right?
And I would have known I was inthe wrong or right place.

SPEAKER_02 (37:05):
To be fair, you met up with us and Mike almost.
Mike almost took you into thewrong place.

SPEAKER_01 (37:11):
So my vision supposedly is okay.
Mental parts, there's otherthings going on up here that he
might need to.

SPEAKER_05 (37:19):
But think about reading a food menu.

SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
100%.

SPEAKER_05 (37:22):
When we picked out our beers, I took out my phone
and I used my magnifier.
Right.
If I had the metaglosses, itwould have been that much more
seamless.
It would have just been boopboop right in my ear.

SPEAKER_01 (37:31):
And like the new, I mean, this I mean, for folks
with hearing loss, the new uhApple AirPods can can help with
hearing loss and they can helpwith translation.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Live translation.
Yeah, we can now hear otherlanguages and hear it in our
ears in English.

SPEAKER_05 (37:46):
That's a scary thought for for people who were
talking about people in adifferent language.
Oh, that'll be so cool.

SPEAKER_02 (37:52):
You have to, yeah, but you know what though?
Yeah, yeah.
I just thought about it.
The way the world is today, Ithink you always have to be a
little worried about that.
Like you never know who speaks alanguage, and I think you should
like you.
I don't think my wife haslearned this where she has said
stuff in French and the personshe was talking about spoke
French and made a comment back,and they were like, oh shite,

(38:16):
right?
Yeah, meld.
Yeah, uh yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 (38:20):
I think the cool thing about technology is that
out of the box, so to speak,this stuff has all these access
features.
It's not even necessarilydesigned with disability in
mind.
It's a lot of these things aredesigned with convenience and
efficiency in mind or fun.
And but at the end of the day,it's like, ooh, this is really

(38:43):
helpful.
Uh, but I think two attitudesare changing, right?
Like accessibility and accessused to be an afterthought, and
we're really seeing a little bitmore it being at the forefront
of design and decision making.
Let's not even talk about themedical advancements.

SPEAKER_01 (39:00):
Yeah, well, yeah.
So let's get into that.

SPEAKER_05 (39:02):
Well, they're not curing what I have anytime soon.
Right.
But uh, but there there are.
Have you guys seen the tooth andeye surgery?
No.
It's for I don't know exactlywhich eye conditions it is, but
there are certain eye conditionswhere they can they take one of
your teeth and they put it inyour eye socket.

(39:23):
What?
And it helps regenerate youreyeball sensor.
No way, and it restores somevision.
Yeah, they're just starting todo it in Canada.
What?

SPEAKER_01 (39:33):
Yeah, tooth and eye?

SPEAKER_05 (39:35):
Tooth and eye surgery.

SPEAKER_01 (39:36):
I'm looking this up, man.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
You've been warned.

SPEAKER_05 (39:38):
It's a little um be warned.
It's a little graphic, Iimagine.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (39:42):
Well, that doesn't bother me.
That's all right.
Sounds pretty fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 (39:45):
Can I ask you a uh deep philosophical question?
Yes.
Okay, so given that at thispoint in your life, and we were
talking about medicaladvancements, and you were
saying that you know they're notcuring what you're having, but
if they could, how much like ifyou could if you know you could
wake up tomorrow and see howmuch do you think that that
would affect who you are as aperson?

(40:07):
Like because you your wholeidentity has been shaped as a
personality based on your lackof vision.
And if that could changetomorrow, like how much do you
think that would impact who youare?

SPEAKER_05 (40:19):
I would have so much bloody fun.
No, oh my god, I'd be drivingthe fastest cars.
Oh yeah.
Oh my, I'd be doing all thethings.
Yeah, I mean I'd quit my jobwhile I have to, because I
couldn't be a mentor anymore.
Uh because I wouldn't be blindanymore.
But I would I I see thisquestion asked of people in the

(40:39):
blind community.
Would you take it if you couldhave your vision restored?
And to the people who say no, Isay they're lying.
Okay.
No, I I can't be insensitivelike that, but I I would take it
a thousand percent.
And I would I would take thepigment in my skin so that I
don't sunburn in two seconds.
I'm like literally allergic tothe sun.

SPEAKER_02 (41:00):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (41:01):
Albinism is uh it it uh it's a lot of work, like I
said.
Yeah, it's a lot of extra work.

SPEAKER_02 (41:08):
That's yeah.
I mean, I you know, I I tend tonot go out into the sun too
much.
And I mean, I'm you know, I haveIrish skin, but it's not quite
uh not quite that not quite tothat degree kind of thing.
But yeah, I mean I can onlyimagine, yeah, you'd have to
lather up quite often.

SPEAKER_05 (41:26):
I'd I'd like, oh I would do so many things if I had
my vision restored, and that'snot to say I don't embrace and
appreciate the experiences andthe opportunities that this part
of my identity has you knowclearly afforded me over the
years, but I was a hot flippingmess for a long time.

(41:47):
It's hard, it's hard in the inthe 90s, looking like a mythical
creature in a schoolyard tothat's how people interpret it.
It's it's it was challenging, itwas difficult.
There was a lot of bullying, alot of um, it was hard.

SPEAKER_02 (42:04):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's the thing that you'vegained a certain perspective of
your personality because ofthis.
And yeah, it just uh I I alwayswonder like if you change
something that's so much aboutyou, can you stay the same
person?
I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (42:19):
I don't think you're it's a it's a it's a I well when
when I hear that I'm I'm neverabout like I mean I was reading
a lot about like um stuff andthe way we identify, like to
remove the that removing youridentity and changing your
identity really you know doesn'tmatter.
You can you can always be adifferent person in a certain
sense.
I know, I know, yeah.

(42:39):
In a certain sense, and and andfrom different ailments or
whatever, better or worse, oreven just different
perspectives.
You can totally change yourperson.
Your person really isn't thatmuch of a thing at the end of
the day, right?
It's just the construct you'vecreated in your mind, so you
could recreate that stuffanytime.

SPEAKER_02 (42:54):
We've learned here that Jenny's gonna be like
driving a race car on the beachon the convertible, convertible
race car on the beach.

SPEAKER_01 (43:00):
So as soon as as soon as Zuckerberg gets a good
upgrade on those glasses, youknow, we got a we got a whole
new problem.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (43:08):
Watch out from people down in Crescent Beach
where you can drive your car.
Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_05 (43:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think though, just goingback to what you were saying, it
our identities kind of evolve.
Yes, yeah.
We're changing all the timeanyway.
I'm not the same person I was 10years ago.

SPEAKER_01 (43:26):
It's not great if you're not changing.
I think change is such a greatthing.
And I I think the more you canjust be comfortable with that, I
think a lot of people times thatthey might get stuck in opinions
and idealisms and things whereuh problems don't get solved.
We'll just say, in a general,not talking about anybody here,
just generally speaking, youknow, that's because you're not

(43:48):
taking your mind, you're notwilling to just take in some new
information, right?
You just want to listen to whatyou believe.
Yeah, yeah, and that's a reallytough thing.
But, anyways, on to happierstuff.
Let's go to 10 questions.
Sure.
So we ask 10 stupid questionsevery show.
I don't know how stupid theseare, Matt.

(44:09):
So some of them are too serious,and you want to make them dumber
and funner because you'reusually supposed to be dumb and
fun or just introspective.

SPEAKER_02 (44:16):
Call me the dumb and fun guy.

SPEAKER_01 (44:17):
No, no.
I'm just saying if you want totake any of these questions and
rewrite them.
I I put this together uh prettyquickly today.
We were we had a pretty busyday.
So I yeah, so I mean, uh it justI'm just saying kind of free
free fall with the questions.
So you can do number one.

SPEAKER_02 (44:32):
No, you can because it looks like it's written half.

unknown (44:35):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (44:35):
It's it stops, so I don't know what it's only half
sentence.
Very bottom?

SPEAKER_01 (44:39):
Yeah, the number one, very it says rapid fire fun
round or something.
Oh, sorry.
Yeah, there's questions and thenthere's more questions.
Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 (44:47):
All right, I'll take number one.

SPEAKER_05 (44:48):
Are you sure you're not blind?
No.

SPEAKER_02 (44:50):
Oh sorry.
That was good.
That was a good shot.
No, that's a good shot.
I I accept that.

SPEAKER_05 (44:54):
I can show you some of the access features.

SPEAKER_02 (44:58):
I want them just to wake me up.
I I am not blind.
I have something that is calledhusband eyes.
Oh, there you go.
That is when, you know,something's right in front of me
and yet I can't see it.

SPEAKER_05 (45:09):
My husband's gonna hate that.

SPEAKER_02 (45:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, my wife will be like,question number one.
Here we are, ten questions.
So, uh, what is your go-tocomfort food when nothing else
matters?

SPEAKER_05 (45:23):
Cookies.

SPEAKER_02 (45:23):
Just cookies, straight away.

SPEAKER_05 (45:26):
Chocolate chip.
Nice, yeah.
With a little bit of bend.
Oh, it has to look crunchy onthe outside, but a little bit of
bend.
All right.

SPEAKER_01 (45:35):
Before the second question, we didn't really touch
on it.
I you did you do stand-up comedyas well for a moment?
No.
No?
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (45:40):
I was thank you for thinking that I'm capable of
such a cookie.
I think you actually could.

SPEAKER_01 (45:44):
I think you totally could.
So uh but from thisconversation?
No, no, no.
I I from from moments in inlike, you know, you could use
some of this as material, Ithink, would be probably really
fun.
Yeah.
From writing for pretty blindand everything else.
Yeah.
So we're gonna just pretend yousaid yes to your comedian.
So no uh question number twoover to you.
If if you could have dinner witha one comedian, dead or alive,

(46:07):
who would it be?

SPEAKER_05 (46:12):
I love stand-up comedy.
This is really hard.
Probably George Carland.

SPEAKER_02 (46:20):
Oh brilliant.
I love that.
That's an easy pick, too.
That's a that's a solid goodpick.
Yeah.
Alright, question number three.
So, what is one thing you alwayscarry that helps you in low
vision situations?
My iPhone.
iPhone sponsorship.

SPEAKER_05 (46:40):
It it is it is my absolute life.

SPEAKER_02 (46:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (46:44):
I'm absolutely lost without it.
Well, I'm not.
I just rely on other people alot more.

SPEAKER_02 (46:50):
The B to that question, like, do you find
iPhones better than any otherphone, or have you used anything
else?

SPEAKER_05 (46:55):
I have not really tried to use anything else.
And uh because Apple has done meuh has treated me so well over
the years, like it's soaccessible out of the box.

SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
That's fair.
Okay.
Question number four.
Four?
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, if uh okay, you like runninga lot.
You ran a marathon or something,didn't you?
Half marathon.
Was that recently or something?

SPEAKER_05 (47:20):
I do one every year.
One every year.
Training for one right now.

SPEAKER_01 (47:23):
Okay, cool.
All right.
If you could have only one ofthe two things, beer or running
in your life, which one wouldyou choose?
I'd have to choose running.
Oh my gosh, over beer?
Oh, dude.

SPEAKER_05 (47:32):
Wow.
I love beer, but running is if Ididn't run, I would have to
spend a lot more money ontherapy, and I can't afford that
shit.
Races are a lot cheaper.

SPEAKER_02 (47:44):
I mean, alcohol helps with that too.
But yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_05 (47:46):
But that's I have a sensitive tum tum, so we gotta
limit it.

SPEAKER_02 (47:53):
Fair enough.
That's fair enough.
Question number five.
So are you a morning person or anight owl?

SPEAKER_05 (47:59):
God, I hate this question.
Why does everyone ask thisquestion?
I hate it because I have to Ihave to admit that I want to be
a morning person so bad.
Um, but I'm an I'm in I'm moreuseful at night.
Cool?
Yeah, my brain's more active.
That's when the brain wakes up.
Yeah, I hate it.

SPEAKER_01 (48:18):
I'm I'm in the morning.
I wish I was at night.
I'm in Lala Land at nighttime.
Yeah.
Morning, I'm I'm ready to go.
Yeah.
Okay.
Next question.
Six.
I'm not keeping track either,don't worry.
No, uh my eyes aren't thegreenest.
What's a silly misunderstandingyou remember?

(48:41):
Oh my gosh.
What's a silly misunderstandingyou remember recently because of
a low vision incident?
Like what's something thathappened recently?

SPEAKER_05 (48:49):
Okay.
Okay.
This one's good.
So it's kind of a two for.
You get a two-for-one.
Love it.
Okay.
I went to gold ball practice.
I had a great practice.
We went out for a birthdaydinner with the with the crew
after.
It was a gold ball birthdaydinner.
Then I'm walking through thecommons.
I'm wearing a hat.
The hat goes flying.

(49:09):
And when you're blind, it's kindof one of those oh fuck moments.
Where the my where did my hatgo?
Um, and luckily I had my caneout, so everyone knew I was
blind.
So a man helped me find itreally quickly.
So that was really nice.
That's not the misunderstanding.
But it was like one low visionmoment after another.
I then got onto a bussuccessfully, get onto the

(49:31):
correct bus, but the bus wasreally, really busy.
And um I had shifted in furtherdeeper into the bus as they tell
you to do, as it gets crowded.
It was really, really crowded.
So I'm standing there and theywant us to keep moving back
because more people are gettingon, and I'm like, I can't move

(49:52):
anymore.
Like, I can't decode mysurroundings.
It's too visually busy.
So I had to not only announce,hey, I'm blind, I can't move
anymore.
You're gonna have to move aroundme.
But then immediately after that,I reached to like try and shift,
right?
To try and make more room.
I reached for the pole to holdon to the different pole and

(50:14):
held onto someone's hand.
Nice, full on held a stranger'shand.
Um, and so luckily I had justannounced that I was blind, so
they all understood it, but itwas still embarrassing
nonetheless.

SPEAKER_02 (50:27):
Right on.
I think I if I was if I was onthe bus and someone did that, I
probably would have just reactedin a hilarious way and just like
held her held the hand back.
It's okay.
I got you.

SPEAKER_05 (50:38):
I had a laugh.
I was like, I'm so I'm so sorry.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (50:42):
I think that's pretty harmless.

SPEAKER_05 (50:43):
I also put my arm around the wrong man's waist at
a concert once.
Oh thinking it was my husband.
Okay, but he understood, heknows.

SPEAKER_02 (50:51):
Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't hope so.

SPEAKER_05 (50:52):
The man didn't really react.

SPEAKER_02 (50:55):
Listen, maybe he was maybe he was interested, right?
Pleasantly surprised, maybe.
Yeah, exactly.
Or stoned.
Or stoned.
One of the two.
One of the two.
Just not have known what'shappening.
So, question number seven.
So, which fictional character doyou think would get pretty
blinded?
So uh, yeah, I don't know.
You wrote that, I don't knowwhat you were thinking about

(51:15):
that one, but which fictionalcharacter?
Where were you where was yourhead on that one?
Mr.
Magoo?
Oh, well, I mean, there you go.
There maybe, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (51:24):
He's like the worst blind representation.
Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 (51:28):
I don't I haven't even thought about Mr.
Magoo until this moment in along time, man.
Yeah, that was a pretty, prettyrough representation of being
blind.
Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (51:38):
It's satire though.

SPEAKER_01 (51:39):
Yeah, it was a great character, right?
It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 (51:42):
Let's hope no one thinks that that's real.

SPEAKER_01 (51:44):
Yeah, I don't think they do.
Thirst and uh Howell the thirdis the guy that does the voice.
They made that a live actionmovie at one point.
Yeah, I think they did that.
I'm pretty sure they did.
I'm pretty sure you're and Ithink it was uh Naked Gun guy,
yeah, Leslie Nielsen that playedhim.
Was it Leslie Nielsen that didit?

SPEAKER_02 (51:57):
Yeah, I'm gonna have to make that up.
Yeah, yeah, but they made it.
I know the guy, Thurston Howell,like on Gilligan's Islands guys
did the voice.
Oh, okay.
On the cartoon.
Gee.

SPEAKER_01 (52:05):
Wow.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (52:06):
All right.
Well, I'll accept that as ananswer because I don't know what
you're thinking on thatquestion.
So go number eight there.

SPEAKER_01 (52:10):
I think I I know what I was asking, but we're
just gonna let it go.
I'm just at pace with thequestion.
All right, I like it.
Cool.
Next question.
It's a number eight for you.
Oh, okay.
What's one of your favoriteshows or movies in recent
memory?
Something you really enjoyed.

SPEAKER_05 (52:25):
Can it be something I'm enjoying right now?
Yes, absolutely.
The new alien reboot.
New alien Alien Earth.
I have to say, oh boy, I am intoit.

SPEAKER_01 (52:33):
I'm about four or five episodes in.

SPEAKER_05 (52:35):
I'm all up to date.

SPEAKER_01 (52:36):
Oh, yeah?
It's wonderful.
It's crazy.
I'm loving it.
It's nice to see some context inthe alien world.
I was just telling you aboutthat the other week.
I always enjoyed it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I haven't watched it.
It's a lot of talking.

SPEAKER_05 (52:49):
I agree.

SPEAKER_01 (52:50):
It is a lot of it's very daunting.

SPEAKER_05 (52:51):
But I feel that it's worth it.
I guess so, yeah.
I think it's a bit of a slowburn.
Super slow burn.
Right?
But then, but then but then whenshit happens, it's kind of worth
it.

SPEAKER_01 (53:02):
You're never disappointed when you know the
action happens because like theydo a really good alien scene.
Some of the best alien scenesI've seen in years are in those
movies.
Like I've watched everythingAlien since Alien.
So I love the I love the alienmovies.
I even like the alien vs.
Predator movie.

SPEAKER_05 (53:19):
I like the new creatures.

SPEAKER_01 (53:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (53:21):
Right?
It has me asking questions likeooh.

SPEAKER_01 (53:25):
That eyeball one was gross though.

SPEAKER_05 (53:26):
And the cat's probably my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 (53:28):
Oh, that was nasty.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But anyways, it was I thought itwas so fair so good.
Haven't finished it, but I'm onI'm bored.
I'm sorry it's not CanCon.
Yeah.
I should have said somethingCanadian.

SPEAKER_02 (53:39):
No, that's okay.
Makes sense.
It's all good.
So question number nine overhere.
So uh a sound you love that mostpeople might overlook.
So what's a sound that justresonates with you?
That's a great question.

SPEAKER_05 (53:57):
I really like the sound of um like coasting on a
bike.

SPEAKER_02 (54:05):
Oh, okay.
Just that feeling of likeattempted.
Yeah, when you like take yourfeet off and you just coast down
a hill.
And you can just hear hard, hardsound to attempt.

SPEAKER_01 (54:14):
I know the sound though.

SPEAKER_05 (54:15):
I don't know how to articulate it, but it's the the
sound of a bike coasting.

SPEAKER_01 (54:19):
Kind of like a whooshy kind of chill, yeah,
gliding kind of sound.

SPEAKER_05 (54:24):
And like you can kind of hear the the chain kind
of, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Okay.
Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 (54:29):
No, that's a no, that's a that's a great, like I
think that is a sound that mostpeople wouldn't really pick up
on, right?
I mean, everyone's gonna belike, oh, the sound of the
ocean, the waves, and stuff likethat, which I do love.
But sound of a fart.

SPEAKER_05 (54:44):
Let's be honest, farts are inherently funny.
There you go.

SPEAKER_01 (54:47):
Pretty funny.

SPEAKER_02 (54:48):
So question number 10 over here.

SPEAKER_01 (54:49):
Okay.
What is one small change insociety or media that you wish
everyone could adopt?
One small change in society ormedia that you wish everyone
could adopt.
I can only pick one.

(55:11):
Yeah, just just start with one.
You can do top one.
You can do top three if youwant.
Or anything that comes to mind.
If you have another one, justsay it.

SPEAKER_04 (55:19):
In media.
This is a challenging question.

SPEAKER_05 (55:30):
Can we start casting more people with disabilities as
people?

SPEAKER_03 (55:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (55:37):
Does that make sense?
100%.

SPEAKER_03 (55:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (55:39):
Can they not always be a hero or an inspiration or
uh um joke or you know, theyhave to with a little bit more
context and dimension.

SPEAKER_05 (55:52):
Uh not even a main character.

SPEAKER_02 (55:54):
Um but I mean like just uh character, like a
supporting character orwhatever.
There's no novelty to it.

SPEAKER_05 (56:00):
I'll give I'll give an example.
And and uh a friend of mine,she's an African-American woman
with albinism, she lives in NewYork.
I don't know if she still livesin New York.
She was at the time.
Anyway, she was an extra on Lawand Order, and she has a unique
appearance as an African womanwith albinism, and she was just
like in the gallery in thebackground.
That's meaningful enough.

(56:21):
Right.
Just to have that exposure.

SPEAKER_03 (56:24):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (56:24):
Like these people are out here, we're out here.

SPEAKER_02 (56:27):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (56:28):
We're amongst you.

SPEAKER_02 (56:30):
I don't know.
Yeah, no, no, that's it's yeah.
If we had uh, you know, an arrayof different people just in
background without having tohighlight what it is that makes
them different.
Um yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_05 (56:42):
Yeah, yeah, like that character happens to be
blind.
They're not necessarily thelead, necessarily the lead or
part of the story, they're justyou know like a store that a
show that I really liked wasSuperstore.
And another friend of mine,Dennis Hurley, a man with
albinism.

(57:02):
Unfortunately, he was cast as acreepy guy dumping some shit
into a dumpster.
And I was like, Dennis, Dennis,I know you go to work, but man.
So anyway, I'm sorry, I'mgetting off topic.

SPEAKER_01 (57:13):
No, no, no, that was fine.

SPEAKER_05 (57:15):
More real representation.

SPEAKER_01 (57:17):
Like it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (57:18):
I think that's our last call, Matt, going to you.
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, so last call is a questionthat we ask everyone uh at the
end of the every ever episode.
And that is what is one piece ofadvice that you were given that
was meaningful to you that youwant to share with us?

SPEAKER_05 (57:40):
I'm sorry for the long pause.
You guys ask really goodquestions.
I don't want to be a cliche, uh,but my late grandmother always
told me to just be myself.

(58:02):
Like just don't compromise forother people, be yourself, and
uh and and self-advocate.
I think um not only mygrandmother, but uh some people
in my life throughout school, umself-advocacy is really

(58:26):
important, and it can be assimple as helping someone
understand how to pronounce yourname because that's part of your
identity, and I think that likepeople overlook those things.
Um so learn how to be aself-advocate, and
self-advocating includes askingother people for help, yeah.
That's and all the while beyourself, and that's cliche as

(58:49):
hell, but that's it.

SPEAKER_01 (58:50):
I think that's pretty awesome advice.
No, I think it's I think it'spretty good advice, but I like
and I particularly like theself-advocacy because yeah it's
never been said on this show.
125 episodes deep, I think.
So you're the first one to sayit.
So cheers to you, my friend.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for hangingout with us.
Pretty blind.
Check it out on AMI.
No, I will.
Check out Jenny's new podcastthat's coming.

(59:10):
She just hasn't announced ityet.
Maybe just follow her onInstagram or something until
until that thing happens.
And uh, is there anything elseyou wanted to tell our listeners
today?

SPEAKER_05 (59:18):
No, I am so flattered that y'all wanted to
talk to me, and it's been agreat conversation.
Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 (59:23):
Thank you.
Oh, you're welcome to come backagain next year and have a
second round.
Let's do it.
Cheers.
All right, see ya.