September 16, 2025 • 46 mins
Twelve years after the tragic death of Rehtaeh Parsons, her mother Leah joins The Afternoon Pint for a conversation about trauma, institutional failure, and finding purpose after unimaginable loss.
Leah paints a vivid portrait of Rehtaeh—a compassionate teenager with dreams of becoming a marine biologist, whose life spiraled downward after a sexual assault was photographed and shared among her peers. What follows is a harrowing account of systematic failure across institutions meant to protect vulnerable youth.
The conversation shifts to crucial questions about our digital age. Should we restrict social media access by age, or should we hold platforms accountable for harmful content? Leah advocates strongly for the latter, noting these companies already have sophisticated filtering systems they could deploy to protect young users. Most striking is her call for empathy education, sparked by witnessing her younger daughter's stabbing while classmates merely recorded the attack rather than intervening—a chilling indicator of how digital exposure has desensitized youth to real suffering.
Through her grief journey, Leah has transformed tragedy into purpose by creating a 100-acre animal sanctuary in Rehtaeh's memory. This sanctuary embodies her belief that healing comes in many forms beyond traditional therapy—a philosophy shaped by her professional background as a therapist and her personal experience navigating profound loss. Her candid revelations about initially wanting to abandon parenting altogether, then choosing daily to move forward for her other children, offer insights into grief's complex reality. As Leah puts it, grief is "rolling"—not something you heal from once, but something you choose to navigate daily.
Share this episode with anyone concerned about youth mental health, digital citizenship, or finding purpose after loss.
On September 20th, the Rehteah Parsons Society will be hosting Rae's Awareness Suicide Prevention Walk. You can find the details for the walk on Facebook if you would like to participate and show your support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Okay, before we start this episode, I just want to
give a little bit of a warningthat, obviously, what is about
to be spoken about is involvingsome bullying, it's involving
some sexual violence and,obviously, suicide, and we just
want to give a warning to anyoneahead who may be triggered or
traumatized by these that thismay be an episode that you may
(00:25):
want to avoid, but we do thinkthis is a very important one.
So, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Cheers, cheers and welcome to the Afternoon Pint.
I'm Mike Tobin, I am MattConrad.
And who do we have with ustoday?
Leah Parsons, leah.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Parsons, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
We uh, as you may have heard in the start of the
episode, we this is a bit of auh one of our more serious
topics to talk about but I thinkit's a very important one.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Absolutely so.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Purpose of this show is to kindof is empathy, awareness and
prevention, right?
Those are the things that Mattand I care about a lot.
I think Retea Parsons is a namethat's known in Nova Scotia,
right?
Not for great reason, and is itcorrect to say it's been 12
years since she passed away?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yes, that's correct, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I just kind of want to go back a bit and tell the
story of who she was as a kid.
There's a great documentary onPrime it's actually there right
now on today that you can watchabout this too, as a companion
to this, if you like.
But a bit about her as a kidgrowing up and stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, so Retea.
Actually we spent a lot of timeright in Clayton Park the first
five years of her life.
So Rutea was my firstborn child.
I came up with her name when Iwas 14 years old Didn't have her
at 14, obviously she had a big,big heart, loved animals, huge
(02:00):
compassion.
If she saw anyone like diggingin a dumpster or anything like
that, she would get veryemotional.
She would be upset.
As she grew up we moved toDartmouth, to Coal Harbor when
she started school.
That's where she was raised andshe met friends there.
She was very I'd say she waspretty quiet at first until you
(02:24):
got to know her.
But she had the same friendgroup.
She just had a really hugeheart.
She was artistic, she was abookworm, she loved to read.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And I saw there was a lot of marine biology and
biology.
Do you think she might havebeen a marine biologist someday,
or is that something she mighthave been aspiring to?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
She actually went in grade 9 to Dalhousie to speak to
a professor to see what she'dneed to do in order to get into
the marine biology program.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Oh, there you go Right on, so it's definitely a
thing for a cool yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean love for animals,which does line in very nicely
with what you're doing now,which makes a lot of sense.
I guess we can give a, just Idon't know if you want to do a
quick.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
No, I was just going to kind of continue there.
What do you miss most about her?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I miss.
Well, what do I miss most abouther?
Oh, that's a good question.
Sorry, that's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I'm sorry, let me reframe that.
What's one of the things youreally miss about Retea?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Just the day-to-day.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah just seeing your child each day interacting.
Yeah, she had big plans, biggoals.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, and everything was kind of just taken away from
her.
And do you think it allhappened so fast that you never
would have seen it coming?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
No, I think everything changed for her
pretty dramatically in one night, which shifted her whole mental
health into a downward spiral.
But she fought hard to stayhere for 17 months.
That's a long time to fight foryour life really, because
that's what she?
Was doing and, uh, so 17 monthsshe tried to get back up over
(04:10):
and over and over again and, um,just, she couldn't wow yeah,
yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I can uh, you know, I I have a four-year-old and I
often take time to think aboutwhat he's going to be right as a
teenager, as an adult, for sure.
Yeah, I can, yeah, couldn'timagine.
Yeah, you take for granted thatyour kid's just going to get
(04:40):
old.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Oh, absolutely.
And then?
Speaker 1 (04:42):
yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Your whole perspective on life changes in a
good way, really.
I mean nothing good about it,but after your child dies, all
the little things, they justdon't matter anymore, Ain't that
the truth?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah Ain't that the truth Big picture.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I'm always saying what's the big picture?
This doesn't matter.
Yeah, changes that wholeperspective.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
And I know your occupation You're a therapist.
Now I'm a therapist, yeah.
Were you a therapist beforeRetea passed away.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah, so Retea was the reason I went to university.
I promised her the day she wasborn, that I would go back to
school and get an education.
So I went back and she camewith me.
We went to the Mount.
First she went to the daycarethere.
She was just a little girl andI did my undergrad in psychology
and then I went on to do amaster's degree and, yeah, she
(05:38):
was there with me.
I'd have my lunches with her.
She'd come to the universityevery day.
The Mount was great for that.
But she's the reason I went andget my education.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, like.
So she went with you, so shewas obviously in daycare, so she
was young.
Yeah, what drew you to that,like to go on to become a
counselor or a therapist?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I have been interested in human behavior my
whole life.
Okay, always trying to figureout myself, always reading books
.
I had my own traumas in myyouth and when I moved to the
States and became a bartender, Ifound people fascinating, how
they came into the bar, how theyacted after a few drinks.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I just found people watching and studying human
behavior fascinating yeah, wedid kind of joke about that when
we were setting up here thatyou know a bartender was kind of
your introductory to, yeah,counseling yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And what kind of uh things do you help with today,
with counseling?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I well today.
I usually help people um withdifferent types of trauma grief
trauma, um.
I do a lot of spiritualcounseling too not necessarily
religious counseling, but I dodo like whatever that means to
the person.
Um, whether that's your innerinner, knowing your higher self,
whether that's something innerknowing your higher self,
(07:03):
whether that's something outsideyourself, I do focus a lot on
that too, because I believe thatthe mind, the body and the
spirit are Kind of justsoul-searching yeah you have to
kind of thread those in.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So, allegedly, the sexual assault happened in
November 2011,.
Right, and then what happenedfor people that don't know?
I'm sure so many people haveheard this story, but you know a
photo spread digitally ondifferent social media platforms
and she passed away in April2013.
Yeah, investigation.
(07:43):
There were later chargesdropped due to the disturbing
images that were online and, um,yeah, just a just a terrible
incident.
It just seems like a societysomewhere really failed her.
Uh, a kid, probably withtremendous potential.
Yeah, kid that could probablyhave just went on to, you know,
maybe, maybe marine bi.
(08:04):
You never know.
Kids change their mind a lot,but there could have been a
million different things if theywere here today.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
So I guess like, maybe walk for anyone who hasn't
heard this story, maybe walk usthrough some of the facts from
your perspective of everythingthat kind of transpired in that
timeline.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, so Retea went to high school, so she left
junior high she was 15.
Started at high school, so youknow, meeting new friends,
meeting new people that firstyear.
And so this was September of2011,.
And she had met a new friend inthe September and she started
(08:44):
hanging around with her.
She lived in just one communityover I'd say not Far Eastern
Passage, so she wanted to have asleepover with her and I spoke
to the mom and she said, yes,she could have a sleepover, no
problem.
And that night her and herfriend went to a home.
On that Saturday, her and herfriend went to a home.
(09:04):
On that Saturday, her and herfriend went to a home where two
brothers lived, and so theystarted drinking alcohol and
then two other males showed uplater.
So there's four males, twofemales.
She got so drunk she couldn'teven stand up.
Her friend that was there withher left, so she never made it
(09:26):
to her friend's home for thesleepover.
So there was four males, oneRetea.
So the two males upstairs firstthey raped her and one took a
photo of her while she wasthrowing up out a window he was
having.
He was raping her from behindand the other the other male
took a photo of that act andthen they moved her from that
(09:49):
room to the bedroom downstairswhere the other two males then
raped her.
And so she woke up the next dayI didn't know right away,
probably a few days and then she, you know, kind of saying a few
things but not really tellingme much.
And then I was, um, I was on acall for work and my sister said
(10:14):
you got to get home right now.
It was like 10 o'clock at nightand she was there with her and
she said, uh, ritea is not okay.
And so I rushed home.
I actually was.
I was up in Bears Lake, rushedback to Coal Harbor, she was
curled up in the ball on mykitchen floor rocking herself in
a fetal position.
And yeah, she just kept sayingmy life is over and they're not
(10:40):
going to let me live this down,they're not going to leave me
alone.
And I was like what are youtalking about?
And then she told me what hadhappened and that there was a
photo, and, um, and she didn'tknow what to do, and the photo
showed up at school and peoplestarted saying things to her and
so she laughed.
(11:01):
We went to the place the nextday and gave our statement, all
of that, and I thought, you know, I went into like, okay, we
need to do this, this and this.
I know, you know, I know whatwe need to do to get you the
help we're going to get.
They're going to get arrested.
The photo will be contained,don't worry, it's all going,
(11:22):
it'll be okay.
Contained, don't worry, it'sall going, it'll be okay.
So right from the get-go, thepolice, the police report they
didn't do the policeinvestigation properly.
Apparently I wasn't supposed tobe in the room.
She wasn't supposed to to writeit down.
She's supposed to record it.
She wrote it down handwritingand then she had to do another
statement, another time withanother unit.
(11:44):
It was just she went from theRCMP, then it was the regional
police and then so that was that, and then they were supposed to
go to the school and thencontain the photo.
None of that happened.
In the meantime I had to switchschools for her almost
immediately to get her out ofthere, because she was just
(12:08):
totally panic ridden, anxietyridden.
Of course, everywhere she went,people were talking and texting
her, and once the police gotinvolved, one of the males text
her and said are you okay?
I heard you're going to thepolice, are you okay with
everything that happened?
And and she said it's cool.
So they used that against her.
(12:30):
No way, yeah.
So they said that she said itwas cool.
And so here I'm dealing withthe police saying like you can't
consent after the fact, likethis isn't what are you saying?
Yeah, this is not and um.
So the police investigationwent on and on and I was calling
often the school, and then the,and then the, the mental health
(12:53):
iwk, she.
She put herself in thereprobably six months later, I'd
say, because she was terrifiedof her thoughts.
She said I'm having thesehorrible thoughts, I'm having
suicidal thoughts.
I'm not going to act on them,but I'm terrified.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
And so she said I need help.
So she went there and wastraumatized there.
She threatened to harm herselfand they stripped her naked and
put her in a room.
Two men stripped her naked, Twoguards, and put her in a room.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Which was probably like a PTSD type of triggering
type of thing, right.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, so All of these things that this, so this is
happening from, you know, theschool, her peers and then the
police and the mental health,like all of the systems that are
set up to help her were nothelping her.
So this went on for 17 monthswith zero accountability, and
(13:50):
then they closed the case andsaid it wasn't child pornography
, because he couldn't see herface in the photo.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Whoa no way.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah, and that she you know she is under the age,
but you can't really tell in thephoto.
I'm like, but she is underage,yeah, and it is my child.
And then he ended up saying tome this was the head of the
investigation unit, because Iwent, kept going up higher, that
(14:22):
it was a community issue andnot a police issue and we're
closing the file.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, so that's.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
A community issue.
I mean, what does that evenmean?
It means they don't know whatto do with the case and they're
going to let I don't know what,just let vigilantism happen, I
guess, like I don't even know,what that really fully means,
right?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
like the independent seal, did a review on findings,
right, yep, and they found aslow, fragmented response across
police, school and healthsystems.
They had made 17recommendations through the
government of nova scot.
Mm-hmm, like unbelievable, likeI mean.
You just kind of reallyexplained, you know what I was
going to ask you next aboutsystems and where they failed,
(15:05):
looking at the way things wereat that time and the way things
are now.
I know this is a big kind ofshift here, but you know, has
anything changed for the better?
I know this is a big kind ofshift here, but you know, has
anything changed for the better?
Have things you know.
Has the attention from themedia that this got helped at
all, or is it pretty much just?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I think it helped a lot at the grassroots level, at
the community levels.
Well, I should say that if aphoto showed up in a school now,
there'd be something done aboutit immediately.
So in that way I would say, yes, Something would be done
immediately if a photo showed up.
They wouldn't allow that tohappen.
What happened to her Right?
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Just to touch on that before we move on from the
photo stuff and the social media, though this is, you know we're
talking 14 years, 13 years ago.
Technology has changed so muchwhere, like, they didn't have
Snapchat back then, when thingsdisappeared, like they do Like,
is that anything that you guysare like attacking when it comes
(16:09):
to that type of stuff, liketrying to address those types of
things?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Well, we are there.
There is a group of us moms whoare trying to advocate for laws
for social media platforms tobe accountable for what shows up
.
Whether it's Snap or Instagram,facebook Any of those platforms
need to be held accountable forwhat goes on their platforms.
(16:33):
So these like Fight Nova Scotia, where there's young kids
fighting each other and it's anactual page on Instagram Is that
still an active?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
page.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Oh yeah, I think so.
My youngest daughter was jumpedand it was on there.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Wow, yeah, I've seen some videos like that of where
they show it and it's likepeople get attacked and they
just it's like theirentertainment kind of thing,
which is completelymind-boggling to me, because
that was not the case growing upfor me.
Like people squared off, yougot permission and you, you know
, you sometimes walked 15 to 20minutes away from the school to
(17:14):
go duke it out like twoindividuals, right, yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
And then they turn on the person that's the victim.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
They turn it on them like oh, is this you getting
beat up by five people?
You think that that's somethingto brag?
About that five people jumped,one person Right, and that that
person should be to brag aboutthat.
Five people jumped one personRight and that that person
should be ashamed of themselves.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
For being jumped by five people.
Like it's very twisted whatyoung people are finding
entertaining and what they useit for, like what they use it to
use against the victim To jumpin to get some sort of ego boost
that they're part of.
I don't know, harming somebody,I don't.
(18:03):
It's.
It's a little still baffling tome.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And I know just sticking to the social media
thing just for a minute, just tostay on point, is like the we
talked to earlier about some ofthe recommendations.
I mentioned that there issomething coming forward that's
going to be put in thelegislature this month in
September, that is requiringpeople to be 16 years of age in
order to even have social media,and I know you had some
(18:28):
opinions on that, whether thatwould work or not.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I don't think that's the answer at all.
I mean, we're in a digital age,banning it from children 16 and
under.
I just don't think that's goingto work.
They just lie anyways abouttheir age to get on.
They'll find a way to get on.
To me, the answer is holdingthese big social media platforms
accountable.
Because you know, 16, you canjust you know, you can just
(18:55):
pretend you're, you can putdates in there, like how are
they going to know if you're ofage?
And I just don't think that'sgoing to work.
I don't see how that's going towork.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
How do we hold them accountable, like the metas of
the world?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Well, they know how to filter things.
Obviously, they're really goodat saying that you violated this
or you violated that and you'renot allowed, you know.
So they obviously have a reallygood filtering system so they
could filter out violenceagainst children and filming
these things and sexual contentthat's being shared online.
And if they don't, then if theylet that through, then they
(19:33):
would have to pay a hefty fine.
I mean, people would report it,so it'd be easy enough to say,
oh look, they let it through.
And yeah, like I said, theyknow how to filter things out,
Because if you say the wrongthing, you're like you're banned
for five days.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Right, I just want to go back to some of the law and
policy changes, right so?
Some of the bills that wereintroduced after over the last
12 years.
I really want to go back tosome of the law and policy
changes, right so?
Some of the bills that wereintroduced after over the last
12 years.
I really want to know if theyhave an impact and if they have,
or what you might know aboutthem.
Like there's Bill C-13, whichis like they created the offense
of sharing images withoutconsent.
(20:10):
Do you think that law hasreally helped at all from where
things were 12 years ago?
It?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
could.
It could, potentially, it could, potentially, but I know that
there's a lot of.
I used to.
Before COVID, I did a lot ofspeaking across Canada and I
know there's a lot of policeofficers that weren't even aware
of it.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, it was brought to the attention of all the
people.
That needed to be in order tobe enforced, right, because a
lot of people just didn't knowof it.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And then another law that passed, or I mean was the
Cyber Safety Act, and then in2015 was replaced by the
Intimate Images and CyberProtection Act.
This was in 2017, 2018.
Now this is more of like acharter-proof framework.
Like, are these?
I have a feeling sometimes thatas these laws passed, the
technologies, as Matt was sayingearlier, and everything else,
(21:15):
we're almost moving too slowlyon this stuff.
Like, I mean, you know, youmentioned earlier about snapchat
, and I think that's a great oneto kind of mention, because now
an image goes away there's noevidence of it.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Almost right, yeah, I mean you know, so you could
deny or you could, but thatplatform must have that data
well yeah, that's what I'mthinking.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, I'm sure they probably keep that on a server
or something like that Matt.
I mean, you know so it's likethis is an evolving thing.
So how do we help today'steenagers and stuff what are
like?
I mean I know you've talked allacross the country about this
Like what do you see as like theabsolute best things we can
start doing for our ownteenagers and our own kids
(21:55):
growing up today?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yeah, that's a big question.
It's hard.
It's hard to be a parent rightnow.
It's hard to be a teenagerright now.
Things are moving very fast, soI don't really know the answer,
but I know that we should bemoving along with it.
In the social media age, forprotecting our children, we can
only do so much to educate themand talk to them.
(22:19):
I mean, it's our job as theirparents, of course, but as
community members we have tohold people accountable and I
feel like there's a lot of.
That's not my business, I'm notgetting involved.
Empathy seems to be lackingbecause of the exposure to
social media, that young peoplehave so much exposure to
(22:39):
horrible, horrific images andthings that it they're
desensitized to this, to the thesuffering of others.
I find that empathy needs tocome back somehow, and I don't
know the answer to how, but Ijust know like two years ago my
youngest daughter was stabbed uh, she's 14, she's 16 now from a
(23:00):
classmate over what um.
They had an argument over cheapperfume oh my um, she, yeah, she
accused my daughter that she'swearing cheap perfume.
My daughter's very witty andquick and she came back with
that's not my walmart perfume,that's yours.
And she was so mad she startedtelling people she was going to
kill her.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
That was the day.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
The next day she brought scissors to school and
when my daughter stepped off theschool ground, she stabbed her
multiple times in the back.
No way, oh my.
God yeah, and there's peoplekids videoing it.
And this comes back to theempathy piece.
When I got there and theambulance was coming and my
daughter's covered in blood, theyoung boy who was there said um
(23:46):
, well, I would have gotinvolved, but I don't do girl
fights, um.
So it wasn't a fight.
No, it was an attack, anassault.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
And thankfully, one of the kids stepped on the girl
who was stabbing her, stepped onher wrist to stop her, and
that's the only way.
It wouldn't have been worse.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Did this happen on school grounds or outside of
school?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
grounds as soon as she stepped off the school
ground Right they just waitedyeah.
So the empathy piece, the waythe kids were just nonchalant
about it, like it was almostlike they were getting a little
dopamine hit from videoing itand like oh my gosh, look at the
blood and it's a girl fight,and I just I was dumbfounded.
I didn't even know what to sayto him when he said that to me
(24:39):
it's not a yeah, so there wasthis disconnect, yeah, it's very
disheartening.
So to me I don't know Empathyand we can educate them all we
want, but again it comes back tothese social media platforms.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Maybe you're on to something.
Maybe we need to teach empathyin schools.
Maybe we need to have some sortof program where we focus a
little bit harder on justtreating people good and
understanding other people'scircumstance, because I do feel
like that's something that'slacking today.
Right, we're further andfurther removed from each other
because we're just looking ateach other through a window now
on our phones almost right so uh, maybe empathy is is something
(25:20):
we should be teaching.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
That's a cool idea I think that is a big factor.
Is kids today that you knowthey're strapped to ipads and
digital things and you knowthey're not?
I don't, I don't know, I don'tthink they're necessarily making
real human connections and itallows, and adults can be the
same, but it's just.
That's all they know.
(25:41):
Their brains are stilldeveloping.
They just simply don't connectthem on a human level.
And when you don't connect topeople on a human level, it's
easier to say things and dothings that aren't great right,
that are just.
I mean, you know, mike and I aresitting here and I think we can
I can speak for the both of uson here.
(26:01):
This is not an easy topic totalk about and I think we're
both kind of like right, this is.
This is a.
It's hard to sit and look atsomeone, uh, a person who has
had, uh, who has lost child, andthen also we now just recently
discovered that you had a childwho was seriously assaulted.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
That could have been another loss.
Yeah, it could have beenanother loss.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So I mean, it's not easy to sit here and talk to
somebody and ask these questionsand talk about that.
Equally, I'm sure it's not easyto talk about it.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
No, it's not easy to talk about, but related to that,
it just popped in those malesthat were there that night with
Retea.
If they didn't see her as anobject to conquer instead of a
human being, and know who shewas as a person, that wouldn't
(26:53):
have happened.
So, somewhere along the line.
They weren't taught about howto treat females, and even if
the school would have taughtthem something, I know for sure
that their parents didn't.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Because I know how we were treated by the parents
afterwards that kind of saidlike oh wow, like no wonder,
this is the way this male is.
Look at the parents.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
So yeah, they just saw her as an object how do you
feel schools can do a better jobof protecting kids?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
oh, they absolutely have to hold those, those
bullies, accountable, andthey're not yeah, they're not,
they're not holding, and that'sstill very prevalent.
I hear that from people all thetime.
People reach out to me.
I mean I don't have the answers, but I know that if you go to a
school, they're afraid todiscipline a child, they're
afraid to put them out of schoolfor a few days, and the message
(27:57):
is over and over and over againis that the bullies can bully.
They can come on pink shirt dayand wear their pink shirt and
they're the ones that arewearing the pink shirt and then
the next day they go back tobeing horrible people.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
It's, it's, um, my wife's a teacher, so I've I've
often had these conversationsabout like, uh, you know how,
how do you discipline kids?
And uh, uh, you know, in ourday we would.
Suspension was a realsuspension.
You'd have to go home.
The problem with it, though andthis is a perspective I just
(28:30):
didn't see right, and it had.
It took my wife as a teacher toexplain to me suspending a kid
and sending them home for a weekis a vacation.
So it's like that's not evenreally working, because it's
like now, it's like, you know,yeah, maybe the parent has to
stay home or whatever, but whatif the kid's 15, the kid can
just stay home by themselves.
You just said you don't have togo to school for a week.
(28:52):
That's true, and that's areward basically for these types
of kids.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
So it's like what can we do?
Speaker 1 (29:00):
What can we do?
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know the answer to it.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Right, I don't know either, but I have actually said
that to teachers before You'resending my daughter home,
because she spoke back to you.
She doesn't want to be thereanyway.
Yeah, she doesn't want to be inschool, yeah, so that means I
have to go and sit with her allday, right?
But yeah, I don't know what theanswer is, but I know when I
was in school I was afraid ofthe principal yeah.
(29:26):
I was afraid to go to theprincipal's office.
Yeah, because he, you know,he's a badass, so I, I didn't
want to go there, right, yeah,so I don't know.
I'm not saying they shouldbring back the straps and
everything else, but doesn't, Idon't know, there's just the
bull.
The bullies seem to get awaywith it.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
I don't know.
I think if we reframe how weteach kids, there's something
good there.
I saw there are some tools forfamilies.
One of them is needhelpnowca.
Have you heard about that site?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
I know them very well yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
And what could you tell us about them?
Speaker 3 (30:05):
So Lorene Harper was very much involved in Need.
Very well, yeah, and uh, andwhat could you tell us about
them?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
So Lorene.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Harper was very much involved in uh Need Help Now.
Uh, I met her a few times.
She's a, she was a wonderfulwoman and they also, um, they
have resources they have.
If any school was to reach outto them, they would send them
all the resources they need.
They give little comic booksand books relatable about
content, about social media,about being bullied.
(30:34):
They're a great organization.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Awesome, they say now as I was looking at this topic.
All preparation for you, mattand I, right and chat GTP full
disclosure helps me out.
Yeah, I got her like that'sbasically my new friend now I
ask it everything, but like itwas saying other things you
could do to teach your kids islike encourage, evidence saving,
reporting and not engaging withharassers or harassment.
(30:59):
Like you know, really, you know,when you see this happening,
make sure that those kids aretalking about it, right.
That negative behavior, right.
When you see someone, even ifyou don't like you might not
like a kid, but if they're still, if they're getting picked on,
if they're all alone, right, youknow the chances of something
bad happening to that person isexponentially higher than it is
to the kid that's not gettingpicked on and is not alone,
(31:22):
right?
I think that there's a lot ofconfusion sometimes when is it
bullying or when is it teasing?
You know, teaching your kids torespect people's boundaries,
socially as well as every otherway, probably really, really
important, and trying to teachthem that at a young age right,
so it's really ingrained in themthat they just don't disrespect
(31:42):
people, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
And also the bullies.
I don't disrespect people, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And also the the bullies.
I I don't think we touched onthis yet.
Obviously the bullies need helpyeah, because happy people that
, like themselves, don't feelthe need to to do that.
So there's something going onthere that needs to be addressed
, more so than just the punitivelevel.
There's more going on there.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I can't remember what actor said it.
I think it was like D'AngeloWashington or something like
that, or George Clooney orsomething like that, but
basically he talked aboutpunching down versus punching up
, and the people who are happyand satisfied and fulfilled in
their life tend not to punchdown.
Yeah, that's right.
So if someone's trying to dothat, if someone's trying to
(32:30):
punch you and kind of bring youdown, they're probably trying to
bring you down to their levelbecause they feel miserable.
Yep, exactly, there's somethingto be said about that.
If you're happy, you don't tryto make other people unhappy.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
No.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I truly believe that.
That's good.
I like that.
No, I truly believe that.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I like that yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
So I mean, yeah, so there's some work to be done, I
guess, even on that side andwe've talked about that, about
how aggressors can also bevictims yeah, and the best way
to stop aggressors are maybe tohelp them heal somehow too.
Yeah, I'm with that.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Like Leia, sorry them heal somehow too.
yeah, I'm with that uh, likeleah, sorry, right, I almost
said leah, because you know whatI'm watching star wars here I
do apologize, but but, uh, youknow about advocacy and healing,
right, you've done so manyphenomenal things since you know
, since you had to deal withthis unfortunate circumstance
and I don't know how you do it.
I don't know how I would evenleave the house if it happened
to me.
Yeah, right, I mean, I knowthat must have been challenging,
(33:25):
but what I really want to talkto people about here now is
share with people today is, um,you guys provide education, you
guys provide awareness,prevention, wellness, focus,
community work and, uh, you know, you read a person's dot ca
you're saying that because theway it's spelled, yeah, I can't
read, that's all rightReteaParrisonsca.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
So tell us a little bit about that organization,
what you guys have done to helpothers.
So we're changing our focus onthe society right now.
Okay, before we started trainingbefore COVID, I did a lot of
speaking engagements acrossCanada communities and schools
and police departments, all overthe victim services, and I did
(34:16):
a lot of that and then that kindof came to a stop, but I did
run grief retreats.
So I started focusing on howcan I help people heal and I
connected with a lot of parents.
But these days I've changed thefocus that we're now helping
(34:37):
people heal through animals andnature.
So we bought 100 acres what,yeah, that's so cool.
So I sold the house in CoalHarbor, bought 100 acres.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
What?
Yeah, that's so cool so.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
I sold the house in Coal Harbor, bought 100 acres
just almost a year ago now.
Oh, my gosh we just hit theroad running so like an animal
farm man.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, that's what we're looking at right here,
which is cool.
So just a quick little blurbhere.
It says our barnyard wascreated in loving memory of
Retea Parsons and her deep loveof animals.
Barnyard was created in lovingmemory of Retea Parsons and her
deep love of animals.
Retea found comfort and healingin the presence of animals and
this farm is our way of sharingthat gift with others.
I think that's beautiful.
Really cool, yeah.
I mean you know, obviously youwork in therapy and you're
(35:18):
trying to help people.
I mean animals obviously can bea huge part of that and you
know, in a huge way you'rereally living her kind of memory
because of her love for animals.
So you're really puttingeverything together.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I think that can really help some people, yeah
because I I just believe that,um, especially for teens, like
talk, therapy isn't always thebest thing to do, because they
don't.
First of all, they don't feelcomfortable talking and even if
they do like, but I didn'tunderstand that it's a process.
She's like I just keep having totell my story over and over
again, to this therapist andthat therapist and I don't get
(35:55):
it like she didn't understandthat therapy's a process, it
takes time and it's it's layered.
But if you put her with a horseor you put her in another
setting, she would be feelingbetter and not even have to talk
about anything and whether she,you know, she could just
connect with the horse and shewould even say, like there's
(36:18):
horses, she connected to that.
You don't know what it feltlike to have the horse's head on
my shoulder and just breathingwith me, like our breath was the
same and that felt so good.
So I just feel like, eventhough I am a therapist, that
talk therapy isn't necessarilythe only way that people are
(36:39):
going to heal.
There's just so many ways toheal and so I just feel like put
someone in nature on a naturetrail that we've created, nature
trails, put them in animals andlet the animals in them kind of
do their thing and see whathappens.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
You ever hear that thing getting up in the morning
and walking around on the grass.
Well, it's been great for youoh.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I do it all the time and looking towards the sun and
stuff.
Yeah, I've been trying to getover the sun, one that's totally
me.
Yeah, I've been trying to makesure you get out in the well
just make sure you wake up andjust stare directly at the sun,
Matt.
That's what you do.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
No, you just kind of look up towards kind of wherever
the sun is even on a cloudy day, and just kind of it helps your
kind of whole regulatory systemand stuff.
Yes, it soaks into you.
Actually, Andrew Huberman saidthat on his podcast recently.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah, pretty cool stuff that guy talks about
sometimes.
Yeah, it's pretty interesting.
The neuroscience yeah, yeahyeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
So is there anything you would like to say to the
parents out there that might belistening?
I'm sure there's a lot ofparents that listen to our show.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
I think that parenting in this day and age is
very difficult.
I'm still in it.
I'm still in it and I just feel, like for any type of stress,
trauma we all have it, we've allhad traumas or just different
degrees of traumas, but we allhave it that it's so easy to
just get caught up in the go, go, go and then you just burn out.
(38:08):
And that, taking care ofyourself first.
I feel that because I wentinward and did that and went on
a healing journey, that I wasable to be there for my children
because I took care of myemotional needs.
I took care of my emotionalneeds, I took care of my PTSD
episodes and I had to reallytune in to what was happening
(38:31):
inside of me in order for me toshow up the way I wanted to for
my kids as they grew up in theshadow of the pain of Ritea.
I knew that they were going tohave their own.
I mean, one was nine and onewas four.
I knew that they were going tohave their own struggles.
So to be able to parent them, Ireally had to take care of
(38:56):
myself.
So I feel like we can't just goon autopilot.
You're just going to burn outlike trying to help your
children and trying to find theanswers and what's going to help
them, but allowing them to beon their journey while you're
supporting them by supportingyourself first.
I feel like that's the.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
That's the key other kids help kind of ground you and
kind of because and keep you init, because I can only, just
from my perspective, put, tryingto put myself in your situation
, um, it would be like just Idon't know, I don't, I don't
(39:36):
know how I'd react, um, and Iwould think that it's like
having other children, knowingthat you have to be there for
them, help ground you and helpyou realize like I need to get
through this.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
No, it was the opposite at first.
The opposite, okay, I didn'twant to be a parent anymore.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Wow, okay.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
It was like.
That's it.
I give up.
I don't want to parent.
She was my world, she was myeverything.
She changed my life.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
I dove in.
I did everything to be a reallygood mom to her.
It didn't work out Right, soshe's not here Like I quit.
I don't want to parent.
I don't want to go to anotherschool meeting.
I don't want to get up.
I make another lunch.
I didn't want to do it.
Yeah, that was really hard forme to navigate that.
(40:24):
Just to go to another concertit just everything would remind
me of.
So I just wanted to just putthe whole parenting thing away
like that chapter is over.
Except, I had two childrenlooking at me for direction, so
it was it was really hardbecause I didn't want to, but
then I had.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
I had to figure it out yeah, you had to figure it
out.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah, of course, yeah so um very challenging, because
they were, you know, they werehad grief well, obviously they
would.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
They would have missed their sister, exactly
yeah so that was uh.
Yeah, it was a hard, hard timeto get through that it's
interesting to hear yourperspective from that, because I
only have one kid and, uh,jokingly slash, not jokingly.
Um, I say to my wife it's likeyou know, I'm okay with having
one because if anything everhappened to them I'd be okay
(41:14):
going to prison kind of thingright, kind of thing right yeah
um, but it's interesting to hearyour perspective, that kind of
I guess it kind of pulled you ina different direction kind of
thing, because I would say if Ihad other kids I would have to
be more logical.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
It's hard to be logical when your whole world
just crashed.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
And my sister even said to me one day I didn't say
anything to her.
And she said to me one day yougot to stop thinking like that.
I didn't say anything.
I said what do you mean?
She goes, you are spiralingdown and you got to stop.
Because I was, I was suicidal,and she knew it and I didn't say
it.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
And she said Leah, I know more than anyone what Retea
meant to you and I totally getwhy you're thinking the way
you're thinking, but you can'tgo down that road.
Yeah you're thinking the wayyou're thinking, but you can't
go down that road.
Yeah, and I was just like Ijust lost.
I couldn't believe that shecould tune in.
I should have known, but shecould.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
She knew exactly what I was thinking and I guess that
goes to a deeper topic of likemental health too.
I mean, because you're you're atherapist, so like people think
, okay, you're an expert in thisfield you should know how to
expertly heal yourself andthings like that.
Yeah, but just you know.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
I think I'm a better therapist now because I actually
did the work.
I dove in the deepest places,the darkest places, to go in
there and not just cover it over.
To go in there and not justcover it over, anybody could
have easily said well, no wondershe's.
You know, I could have starteddrinking or taking sleeping
(42:51):
pills or you know whatever, nowonder it would have been
justified.
Everyone would have said, like,of course she's a drunk now or
whatever.
But, I chose not to go that way,right, and also I could have
closed my heart down and saidthat's it.
I'm not like I'm not gonna yeah,yeah but I said I consciously
(43:12):
made a choice to not go that way.
Yeah, and I had to keep makingthe choice.
But what a lot of people don'trealize is that it's a rolling
grief.
It's not you don't just youdon't.
You don't just you don't heal.
You don't just heal and nowyou're healed.
It's just.
Things still come up.
You still get hit with images.
You wake up and it's like, ohmy gosh, I miss my child.
(43:34):
And it's just.
The rolling impact is somethingyou have to choose, to navigate
every single day, that you'rechoosing again Like I'm choosing
this kind of life, I'm choosingto show up this way.
This is what I chose, not thatyou can't feel what you feel,
but this is what we're choosing.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I guess that kind of also leads me like this this is
a kind of a double-edged sword,then you know, obviously talking
about it makes you think aboutit all the time, which is
probably very, quite hurtful,but at the same time, talking
about it and doing the workyou're doing, potentially you
don't know how many lives you'resaving.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Yeah Well, yeah, people still message me today.
The other day I got anothermessage like Retea saved my life
because you told her story, Iwas able to tell mine and I
bottled this up for 30 somethingyears of what happened to me
and now I don't have shamearound it.
Now I've actually have, I havea therapist, or I went and got
help, or I told somebody.
(44:35):
Or like when people speak outagainst things that are not the
easiest topics or you, you know,not comfortable topics, other
people, it gives other peoplepermission to speak out and tell
their own story, to tell theirown, that's shame.
If you have shame, it justbreeds in darkness.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, Isn't that the truth?
Holy smokes yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, so, yeah.
So I mean just in closing,we're getting to our last call
here now so I just wanted to say.
I'll say a couple quick thingsfor for crisis resources um, you
know, there's canada's 988helpline.
I mean, I just want people toknow that these do exist kids
help phone.
Um, the government of canadahas a 1988 suicide crisis
(45:24):
helpline.
And I think over everythingthough I guess we ask everybody
this question at the end of ourepisodes- what's one piece of
advice you were given in yourlifetime that you'd like to
share with us today?
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Okay, whatever comes to mind.
My mother's words are coming tomind right now, and it's this
too shall pass.
She used to say that all thetime, and I didn't understand
what she meant.
But even if you're having a badday, a bad moment, just knowing
that that's a moment, that's aday, that this too shall pass,
and to hold on to that.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Beautiful.
Thank you so much for spendingyour time with us and sharing
your story for many times overand all the years, many times
you shared your story, probablyhelped way more people than
you've ever realized.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Thanks for having me.
Cheers to you and cheers toRitev.
Yes, cheers.
Okay, before we start this episode, I just want to
give a little bit of a warningthat, obviously, what is about
to be spoken about is involvingsome bullying, it's involving
some sexual violence and,obviously, suicide, and we just
want to give a warning to anyoneahead who may be triggered or
traumatized by these that thismay be an episode that you may
(00:25):
want to avoid, but we do thinkthis is a very important one.
So, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Cheers, cheers and welcome to the Afternoon Pint.
I'm Mike Tobin, I am MattConrad.
And who do we have with ustoday?
Leah Parsons, leah.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Parsons, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
We uh, as you may have heard in the start of the
episode, we this is a bit of auh one of our more serious
topics to talk about but I thinkit's a very important one.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Absolutely so.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Purpose of this show is to kindof is empathy, awareness and
prevention, right?
Those are the things that Mattand I care about a lot.
I think Retea Parsons is a namethat's known in Nova Scotia,
right?
Not for great reason, and is itcorrect to say it's been 12
years since she passed away?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yes, that's correct, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I just kind of want to go back a bit and tell the
story of who she was as a kid.
There's a great documentary onPrime it's actually there right
now on today that you can watchabout this too, as a companion
to this, if you like.
But a bit about her as a kidgrowing up and stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, so Retea.
Actually we spent a lot of timeright in Clayton Park the first
five years of her life.
So Rutea was my firstborn child.
I came up with her name when Iwas 14 years old Didn't have her
at 14, obviously she had a big,big heart, loved animals, huge
(02:00):
compassion.
If she saw anyone like diggingin a dumpster or anything like
that, she would get veryemotional.
She would be upset.
As she grew up we moved toDartmouth, to Coal Harbor when
she started school.
That's where she was raised andshe met friends there.
She was very I'd say she waspretty quiet at first until you
(02:24):
got to know her.
But she had the same friendgroup.
She just had a really hugeheart.
She was artistic, she was abookworm, she loved to read.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And I saw there was a lot of marine biology and
biology.
Do you think she might havebeen a marine biologist someday,
or is that something she mighthave been aspiring to?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
She actually went in grade 9 to Dalhousie to speak to
a professor to see what she'dneed to do in order to get into
the marine biology program.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Oh, there you go Right on, so it's definitely a
thing for a cool yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean love for animals,which does line in very nicely
with what you're doing now,which makes a lot of sense.
I guess we can give a, just Idon't know if you want to do a
quick.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
No, I was just going to kind of continue there.
What do you miss most about her?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I miss.
Well, what do I miss most abouther?
Oh, that's a good question.
Sorry, that's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I'm sorry, let me reframe that.
What's one of the things youreally miss about Retea?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Just the day-to-day.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah just seeing your child each day interacting.
Yeah, she had big plans, biggoals.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, and everything was kind of just taken away from
her.
And do you think it allhappened so fast that you never
would have seen it coming?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
No, I think everything changed for her
pretty dramatically in one night, which shifted her whole mental
health into a downward spiral.
But she fought hard to stayhere for 17 months.
That's a long time to fight foryour life really, because
that's what she?
Was doing and, uh, so 17 monthsshe tried to get back up over
(04:10):
and over and over again and, um,just, she couldn't wow yeah,
yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I can uh, you know, I I have a four-year-old and I
often take time to think aboutwhat he's going to be right as a
teenager, as an adult, for sure.
Yeah, I can, yeah, couldn'timagine.
Yeah, you take for granted thatyour kid's just going to get
(04:40):
old.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Oh, absolutely.
And then?
Speaker 1 (04:42):
yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Your whole perspective on life changes in a
good way, really.
I mean nothing good about it,but after your child dies, all
the little things, they justdon't matter anymore, Ain't that
the truth?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah Ain't that the truth Big picture.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I'm always saying what's the big picture?
This doesn't matter.
Yeah, changes that wholeperspective.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
And I know your occupation You're a therapist.
Now I'm a therapist, yeah.
Were you a therapist beforeRetea passed away.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah, so Retea was the reason I went to university.
I promised her the day she wasborn, that I would go back to
school and get an education.
So I went back and she camewith me.
We went to the Mount.
First she went to the daycarethere.
She was just a little girl andI did my undergrad in psychology
and then I went on to do amaster's degree and, yeah, she
(05:38):
was there with me.
I'd have my lunches with her.
She'd come to the universityevery day.
The Mount was great for that.
But she's the reason I went andget my education.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, like.
So she went with you, so shewas obviously in daycare, so she
was young.
Yeah, what drew you to that,like to go on to become a
counselor or a therapist?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I have been interested in human behavior my
whole life.
Okay, always trying to figureout myself, always reading books
.
I had my own traumas in myyouth and when I moved to the
States and became a bartender, Ifound people fascinating, how
they came into the bar, how theyacted after a few drinks.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I just found people watching and studying human
behavior fascinating yeah, wedid kind of joke about that when
we were setting up here thatyou know a bartender was kind of
your introductory to, yeah,counseling yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And what kind of uh things do you help with today,
with counseling?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I well today.
I usually help people um withdifferent types of trauma grief
trauma, um.
I do a lot of spiritualcounseling too not necessarily
religious counseling, but I dodo like whatever that means to
the person.
Um, whether that's your innerinner, knowing your higher self,
whether that's something innerknowing your higher self,
(07:03):
whether that's something outsideyourself, I do focus a lot on
that too, because I believe thatthe mind, the body and the
spirit are Kind of justsoul-searching yeah you have to
kind of thread those in.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So, allegedly, the sexual assault happened in
November 2011,.
Right, and then what happenedfor people that don't know?
I'm sure so many people haveheard this story, but you know a
photo spread digitally ondifferent social media platforms
and she passed away in April2013.
Yeah, investigation.
(07:43):
There were later chargesdropped due to the disturbing
images that were online and, um,yeah, just a just a terrible
incident.
It just seems like a societysomewhere really failed her.
Uh, a kid, probably withtremendous potential.
Yeah, kid that could probablyhave just went on to, you know,
maybe, maybe marine bi.
(08:04):
You never know.
Kids change their mind a lot,but there could have been a
million different things if theywere here today.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
So I guess like, maybe walk for anyone who hasn't
heard this story, maybe walk usthrough some of the facts from
your perspective of everythingthat kind of transpired in that
timeline.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, so Retea went to high school, so she left
junior high she was 15.
Started at high school, so youknow, meeting new friends,
meeting new people that firstyear.
And so this was September of2011,.
And she had met a new friend inthe September and she started
(08:44):
hanging around with her.
She lived in just one communityover I'd say not Far Eastern
Passage, so she wanted to have asleepover with her and I spoke
to the mom and she said, yes,she could have a sleepover, no
problem.
And that night her and herfriend went to a home.
On that Saturday, her and herfriend went to a home.
(09:04):
On that Saturday, her and herfriend went to a home where two
brothers lived, and so theystarted drinking alcohol and
then two other males showed uplater.
So there's four males, twofemales.
She got so drunk she couldn'teven stand up.
Her friend that was there withher left, so she never made it
(09:26):
to her friend's home for thesleepover.
So there was four males, oneRetea.
So the two males upstairs firstthey raped her and one took a
photo of her while she wasthrowing up out a window he was
having.
He was raping her from behindand the other the other male
took a photo of that act andthen they moved her from that
(09:49):
room to the bedroom downstairswhere the other two males then
raped her.
And so she woke up the next dayI didn't know right away,
probably a few days and then she, you know, kind of saying a few
things but not really tellingme much.
And then I was, um, I was on acall for work and my sister said
(10:14):
you got to get home right now.
It was like 10 o'clock at nightand she was there with her and
she said, uh, ritea is not okay.
And so I rushed home.
I actually was.
I was up in Bears Lake, rushedback to Coal Harbor, she was
curled up in the ball on mykitchen floor rocking herself in
a fetal position.
And yeah, she just kept sayingmy life is over and they're not
(10:40):
going to let me live this down,they're not going to leave me
alone.
And I was like what are youtalking about?
And then she told me what hadhappened and that there was a
photo, and, um, and she didn'tknow what to do, and the photo
showed up at school and peoplestarted saying things to her and
so she laughed.
(11:01):
We went to the place the nextday and gave our statement, all
of that, and I thought, you know, I went into like, okay, we
need to do this, this and this.
I know, you know, I know whatwe need to do to get you the
help we're going to get.
They're going to get arrested.
The photo will be contained,don't worry, it's all going,
(11:22):
it'll be okay.
Contained, don't worry, it'sall going, it'll be okay.
So right from the get-go, thepolice, the police report they
didn't do the policeinvestigation properly.
Apparently I wasn't supposed tobe in the room.
She wasn't supposed to to writeit down.
She's supposed to record it.
She wrote it down handwritingand then she had to do another
statement, another time withanother unit.
(11:44):
It was just she went from theRCMP, then it was the regional
police and then so that was that, and then they were supposed to
go to the school and thencontain the photo.
None of that happened.
In the meantime I had to switchschools for her almost
immediately to get her out ofthere, because she was just
(12:08):
totally panic ridden, anxietyridden.
Of course, everywhere she went,people were talking and texting
her, and once the police gotinvolved, one of the males text
her and said are you okay?
I heard you're going to thepolice, are you okay with
everything that happened?
And and she said it's cool.
So they used that against her.
(12:30):
No way, yeah.
So they said that she said itwas cool.
And so here I'm dealing withthe police saying like you can't
consent after the fact, likethis isn't what are you saying?
Yeah, this is not and um.
So the police investigationwent on and on and I was calling
often the school, and then the,and then the, the mental health
(12:53):
iwk, she.
She put herself in thereprobably six months later, I'd
say, because she was terrifiedof her thoughts.
She said I'm having thesehorrible thoughts, I'm having
suicidal thoughts.
I'm not going to act on them,but I'm terrified.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
And so she said I need help.
So she went there and wastraumatized there.
She threatened to harm herselfand they stripped her naked and
put her in a room.
Two men stripped her naked, Twoguards, and put her in a room.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Which was probably like a PTSD type of triggering
type of thing, right.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, so All of these things that this, so this is
happening from, you know, theschool, her peers and then the
police and the mental health,like all of the systems that are
set up to help her were nothelping her.
So this went on for 17 monthswith zero accountability, and
(13:50):
then they closed the case andsaid it wasn't child pornography
, because he couldn't see herface in the photo.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Whoa no way.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah, and that she you know she is under the age,
but you can't really tell in thephoto.
I'm like, but she is underage,yeah, and it is my child.
And then he ended up saying tome this was the head of the
investigation unit, because Iwent, kept going up higher, that
(14:22):
it was a community issue andnot a police issue and we're
closing the file.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, so that's.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
A community issue.
I mean, what does that evenmean?
It means they don't know whatto do with the case and they're
going to let I don't know what,just let vigilantism happen, I
guess, like I don't even know,what that really fully means,
right?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
like the independent seal, did a review on findings,
right, yep, and they found aslow, fragmented response across
police, school and healthsystems.
They had made 17recommendations through the
government of nova scot.
Mm-hmm, like unbelievable, likeI mean.
You just kind of reallyexplained, you know what I was
going to ask you next aboutsystems and where they failed,
(15:05):
looking at the way things wereat that time and the way things
are now.
I know this is a big kind ofshift here, but you know, has
anything changed for the better?
I know this is a big kind ofshift here, but you know, has
anything changed for the better?
Have things you know.
Has the attention from themedia that this got helped at
all, or is it pretty much just?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I think it helped a lot at the grassroots level, at
the community levels.
Well, I should say that if aphoto showed up in a school now,
there'd be something done aboutit immediately.
So in that way I would say, yes, Something would be done
immediately if a photo showed up.
They wouldn't allow that tohappen.
What happened to her Right?
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Just to touch on that before we move on from the
photo stuff and the social media, though this is, you know we're
talking 14 years, 13 years ago.
Technology has changed so muchwhere, like, they didn't have
Snapchat back then, when thingsdisappeared, like they do Like,
is that anything that you guysare like attacking when it comes
(16:09):
to that type of stuff, liketrying to address those types of
things?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Well, we are there.
There is a group of us moms whoare trying to advocate for laws
for social media platforms tobe accountable for what shows up
.
Whether it's Snap or Instagram,facebook Any of those platforms
need to be held accountable forwhat goes on their platforms.
(16:33):
So these like Fight Nova Scotia, where there's young kids
fighting each other and it's anactual page on Instagram Is that
still an active?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
page.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Oh yeah, I think so.
My youngest daughter was jumpedand it was on there.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Wow, yeah, I've seen some videos like that of where
they show it and it's likepeople get attacked and they
just it's like theirentertainment kind of thing,
which is completelymind-boggling to me, because
that was not the case growing upfor me.
Like people squared off, yougot permission and you, you know
, you sometimes walked 15 to 20minutes away from the school to
(17:14):
go duke it out like twoindividuals, right, yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
And then they turn on the person that's the victim.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
They turn it on them like oh, is this you getting
beat up by five people?
You think that that's somethingto brag?
About that five people jumped,one person Right, and that that
person should be to brag aboutthat.
Five people jumped one personRight and that that person
should be ashamed of themselves.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
For being jumped by five people.
Like it's very twisted whatyoung people are finding
entertaining and what they useit for, like what they use it to
use against the victim To jumpin to get some sort of ego boost
that they're part of.
I don't know, harming somebody,I don't.
(18:03):
It's.
It's a little still baffling tome.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And I know just sticking to the social media
thing just for a minute, just tostay on point, is like the we
talked to earlier about some ofthe recommendations.
I mentioned that there issomething coming forward that's
going to be put in thelegislature this month in
September, that is requiringpeople to be 16 years of age in
order to even have social media,and I know you had some
(18:28):
opinions on that, whether thatwould work or not.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I don't think that's the answer at all.
I mean, we're in a digital age,banning it from children 16 and
under.
I just don't think that's goingto work.
They just lie anyways abouttheir age to get on.
They'll find a way to get on.
To me, the answer is holdingthese big social media platforms
accountable.
Because you know, 16, you canjust you know, you can just
(18:55):
pretend you're, you can putdates in there, like how are
they going to know if you're ofage?
And I just don't think that'sgoing to work.
I don't see how that's going towork.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
How do we hold them accountable, like the metas of
the world?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Well, they know how to filter things.
Obviously, they're really goodat saying that you violated this
or you violated that and you'renot allowed, you know.
So they obviously have a reallygood filtering system so they
could filter out violenceagainst children and filming
these things and sexual contentthat's being shared online.
And if they don't, then if theylet that through, then they
(19:33):
would have to pay a hefty fine.
I mean, people would report it,so it'd be easy enough to say,
oh look, they let it through.
And yeah, like I said, theyknow how to filter things out,
Because if you say the wrongthing, you're like you're banned
for five days.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Right, I just want to go back to some of the law and
policy changes, right so?
Some of the bills that wereintroduced after over the last
12 years.
I really want to go back tosome of the law and policy
changes, right so?
Some of the bills that wereintroduced after over the last
12 years.
I really want to know if theyhave an impact and if they have,
or what you might know aboutthem.
Like there's Bill C-13, whichis like they created the offense
of sharing images withoutconsent.
(20:10):
Do you think that law hasreally helped at all from where
things were 12 years ago?
It?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
could.
It could, potentially, it could, potentially, but I know that
there's a lot of.
I used to.
Before COVID, I did a lot ofspeaking across Canada and I
know there's a lot of policeofficers that weren't even aware
of it.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, it was brought to the attention of all the
people.
That needed to be in order tobe enforced, right, because a
lot of people just didn't knowof it.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And then another law that passed, or I mean was the
Cyber Safety Act, and then in2015 was replaced by the
Intimate Images and CyberProtection Act.
This was in 2017, 2018.
Now this is more of like acharter-proof framework.
Like, are these?
I have a feeling sometimes thatas these laws passed, the
technologies, as Matt was sayingearlier, and everything else,
(21:15):
we're almost moving too slowlyon this stuff.
Like, I mean, you know, youmentioned earlier about snapchat
, and I think that's a great oneto kind of mention, because now
an image goes away there's noevidence of it.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Almost right, yeah, I mean you know, so you could
deny or you could, but thatplatform must have that data
well yeah, that's what I'mthinking.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, I'm sure they probably keep that on a server
or something like that Matt.
I mean, you know so it's likethis is an evolving thing.
So how do we help today'steenagers and stuff what are
like?
I mean I know you've talked allacross the country about this
Like what do you see as like theabsolute best things we can
start doing for our ownteenagers and our own kids
(21:55):
growing up today?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yeah, that's a big question.
It's hard.
It's hard to be a parent rightnow.
It's hard to be a teenagerright now.
Things are moving very fast, soI don't really know the answer,
but I know that we should bemoving along with it.
In the social media age, forprotecting our children, we can
only do so much to educate themand talk to them.
(22:19):
I mean, it's our job as theirparents, of course, but as
community members we have tohold people accountable and I
feel like there's a lot of.
That's not my business, I'm notgetting involved.
Empathy seems to be lackingbecause of the exposure to
social media, that young peoplehave so much exposure to
(22:39):
horrible, horrific images andthings that it they're
desensitized to this, to the thesuffering of others.
I find that empathy needs tocome back somehow, and I don't
know the answer to how, but Ijust know like two years ago my
youngest daughter was stabbed uh, she's 14, she's 16 now from a
(23:00):
classmate over what um.
They had an argument over cheapperfume oh my um, she, yeah, she
accused my daughter that she'swearing cheap perfume.
My daughter's very witty andquick and she came back with
that's not my walmart perfume,that's yours.
And she was so mad she startedtelling people she was going to
kill her.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
That was the day.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
The next day she brought scissors to school and
when my daughter stepped off theschool ground, she stabbed her
multiple times in the back.
No way, oh my.
God yeah, and there's peoplekids videoing it.
And this comes back to theempathy piece.
When I got there and theambulance was coming and my
daughter's covered in blood, theyoung boy who was there said um
(23:46):
, well, I would have gotinvolved, but I don't do girl
fights, um.
So it wasn't a fight.
No, it was an attack, anassault.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
And thankfully, one of the kids stepped on the girl
who was stabbing her, stepped onher wrist to stop her, and
that's the only way.
It wouldn't have been worse.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Did this happen on school grounds or outside of
school?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
grounds as soon as she stepped off the school
ground Right they just waitedyeah.
So the empathy piece, the waythe kids were just nonchalant
about it, like it was almostlike they were getting a little
dopamine hit from videoing itand like oh my gosh, look at the
blood and it's a girl fight,and I just I was dumbfounded.
I didn't even know what to sayto him when he said that to me
(24:39):
it's not a yeah, so there wasthis disconnect, yeah, it's very
disheartening.
So to me I don't know Empathyand we can educate them all we
want, but again it comes back tothese social media platforms.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Maybe you're on to something.
Maybe we need to teach empathyin schools.
Maybe we need to have some sortof program where we focus a
little bit harder on justtreating people good and
understanding other people'scircumstance, because I do feel
like that's something that'slacking today.
Right, we're further andfurther removed from each other
because we're just looking ateach other through a window now
on our phones almost right so uh, maybe empathy is is something
(25:20):
we should be teaching.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
That's a cool idea I think that is a big factor.
Is kids today that you knowthey're strapped to ipads and
digital things and you knowthey're not?
I don't, I don't know, I don'tthink they're necessarily making
real human connections and itallows, and adults can be the
same, but it's just.
That's all they know.
(25:41):
Their brains are stilldeveloping.
They just simply don't connectthem on a human level.
And when you don't connect topeople on a human level, it's
easier to say things and dothings that aren't great right,
that are just.
I mean, you know, mike and I aresitting here and I think we can
I can speak for the both of uson here.
(26:01):
This is not an easy topic totalk about and I think we're
both kind of like right, this is.
This is a.
It's hard to sit and look atsomeone, uh, a person who has
had, uh, who has lost child, andthen also we now just recently
discovered that you had a childwho was seriously assaulted.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
That could have been another loss.
Yeah, it could have beenanother loss.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So I mean, it's not easy to sit here and talk to
somebody and ask these questionsand talk about that.
Equally, I'm sure it's not easyto talk about it.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
No, it's not easy to talk about, but related to that,
it just popped in those malesthat were there that night with
Retea.
If they didn't see her as anobject to conquer instead of a
human being, and know who shewas as a person, that wouldn't
(26:53):
have happened.
So, somewhere along the line.
They weren't taught about howto treat females, and even if
the school would have taughtthem something, I know for sure
that their parents didn't.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Because I know how we were treated by the parents
afterwards that kind of saidlike oh wow, like no wonder,
this is the way this male is.
Look at the parents.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
So yeah, they just saw her as an object how do you
feel schools can do a better jobof protecting kids?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
oh, they absolutely have to hold those, those
bullies, accountable, andthey're not yeah, they're not,
they're not holding, and that'sstill very prevalent.
I hear that from people all thetime.
People reach out to me.
I mean I don't have the answers, but I know that if you go to a
school, they're afraid todiscipline a child, they're
afraid to put them out of schoolfor a few days, and the message
(27:57):
is over and over and over againis that the bullies can bully.
They can come on pink shirt dayand wear their pink shirt and
they're the ones that arewearing the pink shirt and then
the next day they go back tobeing horrible people.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
It's, it's, um, my wife's a teacher, so I've I've
often had these conversationsabout like, uh, you know how,
how do you discipline kids?
And uh, uh, you know, in ourday we would.
Suspension was a realsuspension.
You'd have to go home.
The problem with it, though andthis is a perspective I just
(28:30):
didn't see right, and it had.
It took my wife as a teacher toexplain to me suspending a kid
and sending them home for a weekis a vacation.
So it's like that's not evenreally working, because it's
like now, it's like, you know,yeah, maybe the parent has to
stay home or whatever, but whatif the kid's 15, the kid can
just stay home by themselves.
You just said you don't have togo to school for a week.
(28:52):
That's true, and that's areward basically for these types
of kids.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
So it's like what can we do?
Speaker 1 (29:00):
What can we do?
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know the answer to it.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Right, I don't know either, but I have actually said
that to teachers before You'resending my daughter home,
because she spoke back to you.
She doesn't want to be thereanyway.
Yeah, she doesn't want to be inschool, yeah, so that means I
have to go and sit with her allday, right?
But yeah, I don't know what theanswer is, but I know when I
was in school I was afraid ofthe principal yeah.
(29:26):
I was afraid to go to theprincipal's office.
Yeah, because he, you know,he's a badass, so I, I didn't
want to go there, right, yeah,so I don't know.
I'm not saying they shouldbring back the straps and
everything else, but doesn't, Idon't know, there's just the
bull.
The bullies seem to get awaywith it.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
I don't know.
I think if we reframe how weteach kids, there's something
good there.
I saw there are some tools forfamilies.
One of them is needhelpnowca.
Have you heard about that site?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
I know them very well yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
And what could you tell us about them?
Speaker 3 (30:05):
So Lorene Harper was very much involved in Need.
Very well, yeah, and uh, andwhat could you tell us about
them?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
So Lorene.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Harper was very much involved in uh Need Help Now.
Uh, I met her a few times.
She's a, she was a wonderfulwoman and they also, um, they
have resources they have.
If any school was to reach outto them, they would send them
all the resources they need.
They give little comic booksand books relatable about
content, about social media,about being bullied.
(30:34):
They're a great organization.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Awesome, they say now as I was looking at this topic.
All preparation for you, mattand I, right and chat GTP full
disclosure helps me out.
Yeah, I got her like that'sbasically my new friend now I
ask it everything, but like itwas saying other things you
could do to teach your kids islike encourage, evidence saving,
reporting and not engaging withharassers or harassment.
(30:59):
Like you know, really, you know,when you see this happening,
make sure that those kids aretalking about it, right.
That negative behavior, right.
When you see someone, even ifyou don't like you might not
like a kid, but if they're still, if they're getting picked on,
if they're all alone, right, youknow the chances of something
bad happening to that person isexponentially higher than it is
to the kid that's not gettingpicked on and is not alone,
(31:22):
right?
I think that there's a lot ofconfusion sometimes when is it
bullying or when is it teasing?
You know, teaching your kids torespect people's boundaries,
socially as well as every otherway, probably really, really
important, and trying to teachthem that at a young age right,
so it's really ingrained in themthat they just don't disrespect
(31:42):
people, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
And also the bullies.
I don't disrespect people, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And also the the bullies.
I I don't think we touched onthis yet.
Obviously the bullies need helpyeah, because happy people that
, like themselves, don't feelthe need to to do that.
So there's something going onthere that needs to be addressed
, more so than just the punitivelevel.
There's more going on there.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I can't remember what actor said it.
I think it was like D'AngeloWashington or something like
that, or George Clooney orsomething like that, but
basically he talked aboutpunching down versus punching up
, and the people who are happyand satisfied and fulfilled in
their life tend not to punchdown.
Yeah, that's right.
So if someone's trying to dothat, if someone's trying to
(32:30):
punch you and kind of bring youdown, they're probably trying to
bring you down to their levelbecause they feel miserable.
Yep, exactly, there's somethingto be said about that.
If you're happy, you don't tryto make other people unhappy.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
No.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I truly believe that.
That's good.
I like that.
No, I truly believe that.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I like that yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
So I mean, yeah, so there's some work to be done, I
guess, even on that side andwe've talked about that, about
how aggressors can also bevictims yeah, and the best way
to stop aggressors are maybe tohelp them heal somehow too.
Yeah, I'm with that.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Like Leia, sorry them heal somehow too.
yeah, I'm with that uh, likeleah, sorry, right, I almost
said leah, because you know whatI'm watching star wars here I
do apologize, but but, uh, youknow about advocacy and healing,
right, you've done so manyphenomenal things since you know
, since you had to deal withthis unfortunate circumstance
and I don't know how you do it.
I don't know how I would evenleave the house if it happened
to me.
Yeah, right, I mean, I knowthat must have been challenging,
(33:25):
but what I really want to talkto people about here now is
share with people today is, um,you guys provide education, you
guys provide awareness,prevention, wellness, focus,
community work and, uh, you know, you read a person's dot ca
you're saying that because theway it's spelled, yeah, I can't
read, that's all rightReteaParrisonsca.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
So tell us a little bit about that organization,
what you guys have done to helpothers.
So we're changing our focus onthe society right now.
Okay, before we started trainingbefore COVID, I did a lot of
speaking engagements acrossCanada communities and schools
and police departments, all overthe victim services, and I did
(34:16):
a lot of that and then that kindof came to a stop, but I did
run grief retreats.
So I started focusing on howcan I help people heal and I
connected with a lot of parents.
But these days I've changed thefocus that we're now helping
(34:37):
people heal through animals andnature.
So we bought 100 acres what,yeah, that's so cool.
So I sold the house in CoalHarbor, bought 100 acres.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
What?
Yeah, that's so cool so.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
I sold the house in Coal Harbor, bought 100 acres
just almost a year ago now.
Oh, my gosh we just hit theroad running so like an animal
farm man.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, that's what we're looking at right here,
which is cool.
So just a quick little blurbhere.
It says our barnyard wascreated in loving memory of
Retea Parsons and her deep loveof animals.
Barnyard was created in lovingmemory of Retea Parsons and her
deep love of animals.
Retea found comfort and healingin the presence of animals and
this farm is our way of sharingthat gift with others.
I think that's beautiful.
Really cool, yeah.
I mean you know, obviously youwork in therapy and you're
(35:18):
trying to help people.
I mean animals obviously can bea huge part of that and you
know, in a huge way you'rereally living her kind of memory
because of her love for animals.
So you're really puttingeverything together.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I think that can really help some people, yeah
because I I just believe that,um, especially for teens, like
talk, therapy isn't always thebest thing to do, because they
don't.
First of all, they don't feelcomfortable talking and even if
they do like, but I didn'tunderstand that it's a process.
She's like I just keep having totell my story over and over
again, to this therapist andthat therapist and I don't get
(35:55):
it like she didn't understandthat therapy's a process, it
takes time and it's it's layered.
But if you put her with a horseor you put her in another
setting, she would be feelingbetter and not even have to talk
about anything and whether she,you know, she could just
connect with the horse and shewould even say, like there's
(36:18):
horses, she connected to that.
You don't know what it feltlike to have the horse's head on
my shoulder and just breathingwith me, like our breath was the
same and that felt so good.
So I just feel like, eventhough I am a therapist, that
talk therapy isn't necessarilythe only way that people are
(36:39):
going to heal.
There's just so many ways toheal and so I just feel like put
someone in nature on a naturetrail that we've created, nature
trails, put them in animals andlet the animals in them kind of
do their thing and see whathappens.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
You ever hear that thing getting up in the morning
and walking around on the grass.
Well, it's been great for youoh.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I do it all the time and looking towards the sun and
stuff.
Yeah, I've been trying to getover the sun, one that's totally
me.
Yeah, I've been trying to makesure you get out in the well
just make sure you wake up andjust stare directly at the sun,
Matt.
That's what you do.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
No, you just kind of look up towards kind of wherever
the sun is even on a cloudy day, and just kind of it helps your
kind of whole regulatory systemand stuff.
Yes, it soaks into you.
Actually, Andrew Huberman saidthat on his podcast recently.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah, pretty cool stuff that guy talks about
sometimes.
Yeah, it's pretty interesting.
The neuroscience yeah, yeahyeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
So is there anything you would like to say to the
parents out there that might belistening?
I'm sure there's a lot ofparents that listen to our show.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
I think that parenting in this day and age is
very difficult.
I'm still in it.
I'm still in it and I just feel, like for any type of stress,
trauma we all have it, we've allhad traumas or just different
degrees of traumas, but we allhave it that it's so easy to
just get caught up in the go, go, go and then you just burn out.
(38:08):
And that, taking care ofyourself first.
I feel that because I wentinward and did that and went on
a healing journey, that I wasable to be there for my children
because I took care of myemotional needs.
I took care of my emotionalneeds, I took care of my PTSD
episodes and I had to reallytune in to what was happening
(38:31):
inside of me in order for me toshow up the way I wanted to for
my kids as they grew up in theshadow of the pain of Ritea.
I knew that they were going tohave their own.
I mean, one was nine and onewas four.
I knew that they were going tohave their own struggles.
So to be able to parent them, Ireally had to take care of
(38:56):
myself.
So I feel like we can't just goon autopilot.
You're just going to burn outlike trying to help your
children and trying to find theanswers and what's going to help
them, but allowing them to beon their journey while you're
supporting them by supportingyourself first.
I feel like that's the.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
That's the key other kids help kind of ground you and
kind of because and keep you init, because I can only, just
from my perspective, put, tryingto put myself in your situation
, um, it would be like just Idon't know, I don't, I don't
(39:36):
know how I'd react, um, and Iwould think that it's like
having other children, knowingthat you have to be there for
them, help ground you and helpyou realize like I need to get
through this.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
No, it was the opposite at first.
The opposite, okay, I didn'twant to be a parent anymore.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Wow, okay.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
It was like.
That's it.
I give up.
I don't want to parent.
She was my world, she was myeverything.
She changed my life.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
I dove in.
I did everything to be a reallygood mom to her.
It didn't work out Right, soshe's not here Like I quit.
I don't want to parent.
I don't want to go to anotherschool meeting.
I don't want to get up.
I make another lunch.
I didn't want to do it.
Yeah, that was really hard forme to navigate that.
(40:24):
Just to go to another concertit just everything would remind
me of.
So I just wanted to just putthe whole parenting thing away
like that chapter is over.
Except, I had two childrenlooking at me for direction, so
it was it was really hardbecause I didn't want to, but
then I had.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
I had to figure it out yeah, you had to figure it
out.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah, of course, yeah so um very challenging, because
they were, you know, they werehad grief well, obviously they
would.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
They would have missed their sister, exactly
yeah so that was uh.
Yeah, it was a hard, hard timeto get through that it's
interesting to hear yourperspective from that, because I
only have one kid and, uh,jokingly slash, not jokingly.
Um, I say to my wife it's likeyou know, I'm okay with having
one because if anything everhappened to them I'd be okay
(41:14):
going to prison kind of thingright, kind of thing right yeah
um, but it's interesting to hearyour perspective, that kind of
I guess it kind of pulled you ina different direction kind of
thing, because I would say if Ihad other kids I would have to
be more logical.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
It's hard to be logical when your whole world
just crashed.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
And my sister even said to me one day I didn't say
anything to her.
And she said to me one day yougot to stop thinking like that.
I didn't say anything.
I said what do you mean?
She goes, you are spiralingdown and you got to stop.
Because I was, I was suicidal,and she knew it and I didn't say
it.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
And she said Leah, I know more than anyone what Retea
meant to you and I totally getwhy you're thinking the way
you're thinking, but you can'tgo down that road.
Yeah you're thinking the wayyou're thinking, but you can't
go down that road.
Yeah, and I was just like Ijust lost.
I couldn't believe that shecould tune in.
I should have known, but shecould.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
She knew exactly what I was thinking and I guess that
goes to a deeper topic of likemental health too.
I mean, because you're you're atherapist, so like people think
, okay, you're an expert in thisfield you should know how to
expertly heal yourself andthings like that.
Yeah, but just you know.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
I think I'm a better therapist now because I actually
did the work.
I dove in the deepest places,the darkest places, to go in
there and not just cover it over.
To go in there and not justcover it over, anybody could
have easily said well, no wondershe's.
You know, I could have starteddrinking or taking sleeping
(42:51):
pills or you know whatever, nowonder it would have been
justified.
Everyone would have said, like,of course she's a drunk now or
whatever.
But, I chose not to go that way,right, and also I could have
closed my heart down and saidthat's it.
I'm not like I'm not gonna yeah,yeah but I said I consciously
(43:12):
made a choice to not go that way.
Yeah, and I had to keep makingthe choice.
But what a lot of people don'trealize is that it's a rolling
grief.
It's not you don't just youdon't.
You don't just you don't heal.
You don't just heal and nowyou're healed.
It's just.
Things still come up.
You still get hit with images.
You wake up and it's like, ohmy gosh, I miss my child.
(43:34):
And it's just.
The rolling impact is somethingyou have to choose, to navigate
every single day, that you'rechoosing again Like I'm choosing
this kind of life, I'm choosingto show up this way.
This is what I chose, not thatyou can't feel what you feel,
but this is what we're choosing.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I guess that kind of also leads me like this this is
a kind of a double-edged sword,then you know, obviously talking
about it makes you think aboutit all the time, which is
probably very, quite hurtful,but at the same time, talking
about it and doing the workyou're doing, potentially you
don't know how many lives you'resaving.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Yeah Well, yeah, people still message me today.
The other day I got anothermessage like Retea saved my life
because you told her story, Iwas able to tell mine and I
bottled this up for 30 somethingyears of what happened to me
and now I don't have shamearound it.
Now I've actually have, I havea therapist, or I went and got
help, or I told somebody.
(44:35):
Or like when people speak outagainst things that are not the
easiest topics or you, you know,not comfortable topics, other
people, it gives other peoplepermission to speak out and tell
their own story, to tell theirown, that's shame.
If you have shame, it justbreeds in darkness.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, Isn't that the truth?
Holy smokes yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, so, yeah.
So I mean just in closing,we're getting to our last call
here now so I just wanted to say.
I'll say a couple quick thingsfor for crisis resources um, you
know, there's canada's 988helpline.
I mean, I just want people toknow that these do exist kids
help phone.
Um, the government of canadahas a 1988 suicide crisis
(45:24):
helpline.
And I think over everythingthough I guess we ask everybody
this question at the end of ourepisodes- what's one piece of
advice you were given in yourlifetime that you'd like to
share with us today?
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Okay, whatever comes to mind.
My mother's words are coming tomind right now, and it's this
too shall pass.
She used to say that all thetime, and I didn't understand
what she meant.
But even if you're having a badday, a bad moment, just knowing
that that's a moment, that's aday, that this too shall pass,
and to hold on to that.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Beautiful.
Thank you so much for spendingyour time with us and sharing
your story for many times overand all the years, many times
you shared your story, probablyhelped way more people than
you've ever realized.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Thanks for having me.
Cheers to you and cheers toRitev.
Yes, cheers.
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