June 6, 2025 • 28 mins
In this companion episode to “Why Biblical Meditation Might Be the Discipline You’re Missing,” Pastors Kent, Matt, and Jeremy return to explore how the discipline of meditation becomes a lived reality. Drawing from Job 31, Psalm 139, and Psalm 19, they unpack what it means to dwell on God’s Word in everyday rhythms—through songs, sermons, situations, and personal sin.You’ll hear how biblical meditation moves truth from the page to the heart, shaping affections and guiding the will. Whether it’s in a quiet moment after a sermon, a walk under the stars, or a conviction during daily life, this episode shows how Scripture becomes worship, and reflection becomes transformation.Come be encouraged to deepen your practice—not just to read the Word, but to carry it with you, delight in it, and let it change you from the inside out.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Welcome back to Afterward podcast with extended
conversations about topics that matter in life and in ministry.
Matt, welcome back. Jeremy, welcome back.
Thank you. Thank you, Kent.
You bet. Thank you for that.
Hey Matt, let's get right out ofthe gate.
I, I, I know that there have, there's a significant topic we
want to discuss with regard to meditation, but this morning you
(00:29):
threw out, I think what could become a term we would want to
use in some context in this particular podcast.
Yes. Would you want to show what that
is? I think it's deeply connected to
meditation, which is our topic for today, and I think should be
used in some context. Yep, my goal for today is to
work in the word cauldron, a very theological word that
somehow came up this morning. So we're going to work it in
(00:50):
somewhere. So be on your toes guys.
I. Look forward to that.
Yeah, why do you when he says Cauldron, what do you think
about Jeremy? What comes to mind?
Witches. Yep.
Very church. Yeah, for sure has wizard vibes.
I think it's going to be great. Yeah, very medieval too.
Deeply medieval. So let's see where that comes
up. I don't know, but it's good to,
it's good to have a little bit of a lighter moment.
(01:11):
Because the last time we we wrapped up with meditation, not
such a light topic, right? I mean, a life giving topic, but
but we wanted to get back into it because where we left off was
with what meditation isn't and what it is.
And so if you didn't listen to the podcast and and you're
listening now to this particularone, the one before is Part 1.
(01:32):
And we talked about that at length and even went to the
scriptures too, to talk about where do we see meditation in
the scriptures and what what it is as defined biblically and
what it can look like practically a little bit.
But in this particular episode, I think we wanted to drill
deeper into, OK, but what is it look like in our own life?
So I thought we could talk aboutwhat what it might look like for
(01:57):
people who are listening in or watching to actually actually
begin to practice biblical meditation.
And I'd like to maybe even just end with like, hey, here's an
example of what that could look like practically.
So as you guys think about meditation maybe a bit more
practically, what are some different ways that you see your
(02:17):
even in your own life meditationcoming into play?
How does that look? Just practically more?
I just crack it open kind of generally.
Sorry for the general or vague question to start.
OK, I can start. For me personally, going back to
when we talked about devotions, I like to read, don't always do
this, but I like to read and getsomething to chew on for the
(02:40):
rest of the day, which is reallywhat meditation is.
And in the sense of muttering orrepeating something, not not
mindless repetition, but just thinking about it.
And so I'm not always successfulat that, but what that would
look like for me in the general day-to-day would be reading the
word in the morning and then doing my best to like, OK, So
(03:00):
what do I want to think about? But it's not so much like what
do I want to think about personally, but more, Lord, what
do you want me to carry in throughout, carry throughout the
rest of the day? And actually, if I get jump
practical really quick. I've shared this in various
contexts, but sometimes, though not always, is did it more when
I had more of a commute. I realized that there are
(03:20):
strategic times when certain songs would stick in my mind and
so it was the last one before I got out of the car to go to work
or was the first one that I heard.
There's different times and so Iwould like if that's the time
frame that it's going to be stuck in my head, why not choose
when it's going to be tied to what I just read or what I want
to meditate on? And so it was awesome.
I would finish reading somethingabout whatever is easy in the
(03:42):
Psalms that makes me think of a song and then I'll go find that
song, not because it's my favorite one because it's going
to get stuck in my head and that's going to carry me
throughout the rest of the day. So that's just one practical
way. But really for me personally,
how I try to do it most days or like that's, that's my typical
goal. It's good.
Yeah, I think we were talking about this like what would be
(04:05):
different times where there's something worth meditating on
and even outside of personal devotions.
One of my habits is Sunday afternoon coming home and then
spending time going back and reviewing my notes both from the
life stage and then from the sermon.
And then I spend time there. That's actually where some of
the the writing comes in my Bible because I'll pull out
maybe one or two things that really stuck with me and then
(04:27):
I'll stick them next to the the verse that either we were
preaching through or that was inlife stage.
And I'm seeing they're meditating on them.
So I'm giving my chance myself achance to really savor what was
was served up essentially for for the day on Sunday.
And then that helps it stick throughout the week versus I
think, man, so much can go in and out of our minds and it's
(04:48):
all good. And it is in many ways
depositing whether we're sittingthere savoring or not.
But but you really need to to have some time to, to chew on
it. And that repeat visit in memory
is really important. So repetition in memory, hugely
important. It's just going to make it.
Stick Yeah, it's good. Actually.
I was thinking about different subjects too for meditation,
(05:09):
like connected to God's Word, obviously.
And and like I've appreciated Matt, you said a couple times it
it meditation biblically doesn'thave to just arise out of your
devotions properly. And you mentioned it too.
It can be a song as well throughout your day.
I was thinking about different times in my life where I find my
own mind and heart kind of stirred.
And even for me, walking home from church at night in
(05:32):
particular, I will frequently look up at the stars and just
think about the majesty of God, right?
The heavens declare the glory ofGod.
And that just leads me to just reflect on how small I am,
right? Because I mean, you're walking
on this globe as a speck compared to these giant orbs in
the, in the, in the sky and evenGod's care just with the moon
(05:53):
that rotates in ways that, you know, provides.
I just even think about this other stuff like tides and
movement of water and wind and weather all being affected by
things that we have 0 control over.
And I just thank the Lord for like God, thanks for taking care
of us. You know, so just for me
frequently walking can be a place where I, I draw on
subjects for meditation that come out of the scriptures,
(06:14):
right? I mean, I'm not just looking at
the stars and doing, I'm lookingat the stars and thinking about
Psalm 19, right, or Job, but it talks about Orion, etcetera.
I also think a lot about how we can meditate when we stumble and
fall in our sin and just the reflection on some of the
sinfulness of my own sin. So do not just like confess my
(06:34):
sin, but to really try to be building like a meditation on
like I need to be broken over this sin.
And there can be a reflection onor meditation on the awfulness
of sin, which of course then leads to it just a a meditation
on sometimes also on the cross and on the cost that Christ
paid. So the death of Christ, the
(06:56):
resurrection of Christ are usually in play when I'm
thinking about like man Lord, I'm so sorry.
You know about my own sin here. Just confessing it to him.
I wrote down a couple other onesjust reflecting on God's love
for us at any number of different points throughout our
day because he walks with us andso he's with us and can remind
us of his goodness. Well, really any of his
(07:18):
attributes. I keep AI personally keep a
poster in my office of the attributes of God.
It's like just adjacent to my desk.
And so for me, I sometimes will just reflect on like, man, I
haven't thought about the essayety of God in a while.
What is that again, you know what, and I have to go study at
(07:38):
first to, to to just reflect on.I'm so thankful for that
attribute of God. I I have thought before about
what Edwards reflected on most. He reflected most on heaven.
So he his meditations that were the most he would say ardent or
vital were the reflections and meditations he had in heaven.
(07:58):
He also would encourage people to reflect on hell and and
meditate on that and and be driven to the fear of the Lord,
which is the beginning of wisdom.
And so for him, he would add thelike various elements of the
afterlife right the next life aspotential subjects for
meditation. In other words, like we can take
(08:18):
biblical truth and then as we'reliving a life, we can have
different topics at different time or subjects, not just
texts, but subjects be fertile ground for meditation.
And I don't know, I don't know if that's I don't know if our
people live like that or things like that.
I think they do actually more than they probably if they
stopped and thought about it, they probably do.
They would call it worship. But really what that is, is it's
(08:41):
it's it starts with meditation. It leads to worship like man,
God, thank you so much, which isprayer, but worship.
Tell him how much he's worth, you know, his worthiness.
But it starts with those reflections, meditations, right.
Do you guys find that there are certain subjects in your own
life? I guess I'm asking a personal
question that for you have proved to be particularly kind
(09:03):
of impactful or fertile ground for meditation in your own life.
You mentioned songs and you mentioned sermons and so good
alliteration, by the way. Oh yeah, that's good.
Oh. Boy, I need, I need another S.
Cauldron. That doesn't start with an S, so
it's still. We can't use it yet.
OK, I'm sorry, I tried. But I, I, let me jump off of 1
(09:26):
of the things you said about creation.
We have become so confined by walls, right?
Like we are just and on technology and stuff.
And so you mentioned some thingsthat are meaningful.
I think Christ does this. So Psalm 19, consider the
heavens. Christ, whenever he says
consider or observe, he's sayingmeditate.
(09:46):
So he says go to the birds, right?
Consider the birds of the air orconsider the lilies.
Neither they toil or spin, but he's doing it with a purpose.
So it's not like your meditationhas no effect on you.
It's actually calming your mind,right?
So you don't spin in toil. So for me, when I think about
that, I think about walks that I've had or, you know, just
different times where rainbows come out reminding me of God's
(10:06):
promises or just little birds. And like, as much as I feel
small thinking about the heavens, I feel really large
when I consider the birds and valuable to God.
So, so many different ways whereyou just got to get out of
technology, out of the walls andgo for a hike and just let the
Lord use his creation. Let me compliment that with.
(10:28):
I was going to try to work in. It's not coming.
OK. Another SA situation.
Is that good alliteration? We got that.
OK, there we go. So here's the deal.
So you guys are, where are we at?
Right now, so we're at situationsermon.
Song. Song, we got this well done.
OK, So what I'm thinking, you guys are talking about going for
walks by yourself and Sunday afternoon, and I was talking
(10:49):
about devotions. There is one of the ways that I
would have found myself attempting to meditate when I'm
with people, when I'm not alone,when I can't get away is to
think about like, you know, we're really good at looking at
other people's sin. Like, hey, he's he just kind of
has like a sharp tongue. He just says whatever comes in
his mind For me. If I that's an area that I know
(11:12):
I need to work on, then I'll actually, if I identify sin and
somebody else, I will then do mybest to turn it back around on
myself. Like Lord, in what ways do I do
that? So I will, I don't mean like I'm
running around all day looking for sins so I can find something
to meditate on, but I do my bestto win it.
When I, my flesh will point out something that someone else
(11:34):
does. Oh, he's so loud or he's always
turning the conversation about him to himself or whatever.
Then I can take it and say, likeLord, how do I do that?
In what situation today might I have done that?
Maybe to a different degree, butnonetheless it's it's an
attitude where you're looking tothe Lord to do some self
reflection and you're with people, you're not alone.
(11:56):
So another way to do it. Yeah, it's good.
It's good. I was thinking about ways you
can kind of branch off of other things.
So we've mentioned those that alliterated set of sermons,
songs and situations, but you can also think about different
kind of sections that you can branch off of.
(12:16):
And so I, I remember reading. So we're going to get to a
resource I think is really important that you're going to
mention just a little bit. But there's Joseph Hall, which
I've read before and been impacted by.
He says, as you, as you start tomeditate, so let's say that
you're reading a section of scripture or you've heard a
sermon or you're, you know, a situation in life hits you then
consider what's relative or correlative or contrasted with
(12:37):
it. So he says, OK, so consider that
object or subject itself, then consider the causes of it.
So like, for example, if you're reflecting or meditating on your
own sin or the sin that you see in somebody else and you want to
turn back like to yourself, thenyou want to consider the cause
of that sin. Like run it backwards into the
Scripture. Like what sin is connected to
(12:59):
it, right? So if it's arrogance, it's
connected to pride. And so you want to think about
like man I or if it's double toned, it's connected to deceit
or maybe to hypocrisy. So you're kind of running now
you're meditating on something that's related to it, but
expands it, you know, and then that's going backward logically.
And then he says, once you do that, then then reflect on or
(13:19):
meditate on the effects of that sin.
If we're using a sin, for example.
So run it forward and think about the potential, like, oh
man, think about the damage thatcould happen if I just give full
vent to this sin where? Well, in your workplace or in
your home or with your extended family or with your church
family, Like just let your mind kind of run out there and be in
(13:41):
this case with sin, the affection that would get stirred
would be fear, the fear of the Lord.
Good fear, right? A godly fear when you think
about the effects of it. And then he says you can also
consider what's similar to it. So arrogance, while it's similar
to pride, that might be similar to Vainglory.
That might be similar to selfishambition.
(14:03):
You know, you can think about other ways like, Oh yeah, I do
see selfish ambition in me. And so you're kind of swinging
to something to the side of it. So in other words, what he's
having us think about is meditation can start here with
the subject, but then run backwards with the causes of it
for further, deeper reflection. Run out ahead of yourself to the
effects of it out in front. That kind of causes the rising
(14:27):
fear. Again, if meditation is about
the sin and then what's similar to it?
Kind of what's what? What are the peer group sins,
the related sins, and then what's opposite to it?
What's the virtue that's opposite to the sin and that the
the net effect of that meditation is probably a rising
affection and desire to pursue that virtue and kill this vice.
(14:49):
And so I love that. I mean, I don't do that.
I just, I need to do that. But I, when I think about that
man, you, you can see how someone could do like just be
meditating on a single subject for a, for a while, right?
And, and, and so the idea there is that you're in meditation,
rekindling the affections. So you're not just like
(15:11):
thinking, you're not just reflecting, you're actually
trying to, in the case of a sin,you're trying to repent of it.
And what is repentance? Well, it's hating my sin enough
to forsake it, right? It's not just forsaking it.
It's like, I want to build a hatred for it.
Or if you're reflecting on the love of God you want to you you
want the effect to be I am I just so love the Lord has this
(15:34):
growth in love right like love excel still more and more and so
to build an increased affection is the goal either way.
I mean a positive affection or anegative affection.
That should be how you know thatmeditation is is taking root in
a way that will bear good fruit.And so I don't know if that
makes sense. That's helpful because I
(15:55):
sometimes we can think that we are meditating by just thinking
about something just batting around in our minds.
Someone says, what'd you hear onSunday?
Which what are you thinking about?
And you can name something, but really it just stops in your own
head. And that's helpful to hear you
articulate it like that with help with Hall, but just
thinking about like, OK, wait, hold on a second.
(16:16):
There's an aspect of this which affection for the Lord.
I'm thinking about this for the ultimate goal of wanting to
increase my affections for Him. It's a lot different than just
trying to figure out what it is that I read or what I heard.
Yeah, to me, it was making me think of Psalm 139 because
you're you're getting to the endand you're like, search me, O
(16:36):
God, and know my heart, right? Help me in my meditations, like
get into the nooks and crannies of my heart.
In the context there, it's because I don't want to be like
my enemies, like I'm, I don't want that sin in my life.
So search it out of me before itlooks like that, like what I'm
seeing from my enemies right now.
So it's just that deep longing and I have to share this.
(16:59):
So I was trying to think of an illustration, but kind of
reminds me of chocolate. Have you guys ever gotten those
Trader Joe's like packs of chocolate with like from all
these different countries? Oh yeah, those are.
Tasty. So you're like, you can just eat
chocolate and just consume it. It's fine.
But with those they'll tell you like the notes of the chocolate
you're supposed to taste and allthis.
So my family will try to like not know what it is and guess
(17:20):
the notes and the location. So but you have to savor it.
You can't just eat it and drop it down.
You're like sitting there. You're like letting the
chocolate sit there and you're looking at it and like, I think
it's grassy and someone else like, no, no, no, that's not
grassy. That's rosebuds or something.
And you're like, what? But but it's because you're
going from just eating it to savoring it to know it.
(17:42):
And then you go, oh, now I'm seeing or tasting these notes
that I didn't notice before, which then leads to affection
because you're like, this is so good.
What a sweet taste or what a a sweet bite that I had that I
would have never noticed. I would have just chucked it
down like I would a Hershey bar.So just an illustration.
I was thinking of how to go fromsavoring to then it like you're
(18:02):
saying, can it, it works on youraffection.
It should draw you out. Yeah.
And then we would say, obviouslywith the affections
appropriately stirred, then the,the, the drive of the word to
the will is not hard. It's a very natural volitional
almost attraction. Like if your affections are
(18:23):
working in the right direction, then the volition just naturally
follows, right obedience, faithfulness, whatever
repentance, contrition, broken, all that stuff just kind of
falls out of a heart that's beeninformed or renewed by the
Scripture through the mind. And then as it drops into the
heart, the affections are stirred.
Then the life changes somewhat naturally, supernaturally writes
(18:46):
the spirit, but in that flow naturally so.
That starts to play into when you're going to listen to a
sermon or you listen to a song, or you're in the word yourself.
All of a sudden you're on your toes, so to speak.
You're listening for certain things.
Your, your mind is already going.
You know you're not. You're not having to play catch
up when all of a sudden the wordis opened.
Yeah, that's good. Well, I don't know what the time
(19:09):
we have left you guys. I thought maybe we could take a
few minutes actually to, I mean,we've talked about more of the
practical elements of it, like what what will we actually do to
start our minds thinking about, you know, subjects?
And then how do we in a sense, kind of look at the subject,
push it back, push it forward, push it to the side and have our
affections be stirred. That then resolves the will.
(19:32):
So hopefully that broad framework helps.
But maybe we can just spend a few minutes helping people, even
just look at a passage and go like, hey, this is how this can
turn from in your devotions. And I appreciate it's not in
devotions only, but as we're talking about our time in the
word, then to have that turn from reading to meditating to,
you know, worshipping and praying.
(19:53):
So I thought it'd be good. I was just in the word this
morning in Job 31. So if you guys want to turn
there and I don't know if you'relistening and you're in the car,
do not turn in your Bibles to this passage.
But if you're. If you're in a place where you
could just Job 31 is a long chapter, so it's not the right
time to read all of it, but there is, there is.
(20:17):
And I noticed just reading this morning, there's a series of of
a pattern that starts with Job in Job 31, not in verse 1 so
much where he says I've made a covenant with my eyes.
How then can I gaze at a virgin?But the next stanza in verse 5
says, if I have walked with falsehood.
(20:37):
And then in verse 9, the next stanza, if my heart has been
enticed toward a woman. And then in verse 13, next
stanza, if I have rejected the cause of my manservant or my
maid servant. So I started noticing and
reading, oh, here's a pattern. And so from the pattern I just
started trying to like summarize.
Well, here's what I think that pattern is.
(21:00):
That sin issue is that he's struggling with and I just, I
just quickly wrote them all down.
So not in your Bible. Not in my Bible.
I'm not a Bible writer. In her.
Yeah, sorry, Matt. It's OK.
Source of grief? Yeah.
Are. You allowed for meditation.
I write in my Bible not as much as Matt does.
Yeah, Matt, yeah, yeah, you, youmark yours up for the while.
(21:22):
So. So I just thought if we could
just walk through these, maybe we can just see how it turns
very naturally to man. Lord help me here.
So like, for example, I wrote down, if, you know, I've I've
made a covenant with my eyes, how then could I gaze at a
virgin? And so there's other things
there and that stanza, but I just thought about that
statement and just said, man, I do.
(21:44):
I just need to be so much more disciplined to to be purposeful,
not to look, not to gaze at women, you know, So I just left
out there and moved on to the next stanza, verse 5.
And I just thought like, I want to walk with integrity, right?
Because verse 6 talks about integrity and not with deceit.
(22:10):
And I just thought about that for a while.
Like, is there any place in my life where that would mark me
and just for a minute or two andthen moved on, you know, the
next stanza. So what this turned into was,
and I don't know if you guys areskipping ahead here, but verse
9, if my heart has been enticed toward a woman related to the
(22:32):
first stanza, but maybe just noteven letting your heart go,
right? The first one's about gays, the
second one's about heart. And so if you're thinking about
women, even, Lord, I don't even want to think about that, you
know? And on and on it goes.
I mean, I don't know if you guyshave any thoughts here through
the rest of it. I wrote in my Bible next to
verse 9, adultery in heart. So I actually have something.
(22:52):
It's funny that you turn here. I have something written in each
one. So verse one, purity, verse 5,
honesty, verse 9, adultery. So I was doing a similar thing,
reflecting on it. Then it gets into justice with
employers, justice with people outside.
So it's good. It's good.
Yeah. Yeah, it ends up being I think
by and again, I was reading thisjust in devotionally right.
(23:14):
So I came up with with 10, but what, what it did for me was
just reflecting on each of thoseand, and really kind of like
Job's integrity is, you know, being questioned, right?
I mean, that's his, that's his counselors, but he's also doing
a ton of soul searching. So I don't know, I just looked
at this and thought, here's whathere's what it turned into to
(23:35):
me. For me, it turned into
reflecting on these things, all ten of them, and then turning
into a prayer. So here's what it turned into
this morning. And I just took this Lord in
prayer after a few minutes. Father, help me not to look on a
young woman, verses one through 4, but to look only upon my
wife. Help me not to live life with
any deceit, verses 5 through 8, but to walk with integrity.
(23:57):
Help me to not be enticed by another woman, but to enjoy my
wife instead, verses 9 through 12.
Help me not to spurn those who work under me, verses 13 through
15, but to listen to them well. Help me to not disregard the
cause of the poor, the fatherless, and the widow,
verses 16 through 23 but to defend them.
Help me not to trust in wealth or delight in it, but to steward
(24:19):
it, to not rejoice in my enemy'sruin, but to love them and pray
for them. Help me not to be stingy with
what I have, but to be generous.Help me not to hide my sin, but
to confess and mortify it. Help me not to exercise dominion
poorly, but to exercise dominionas God desires properly.
Genesis 1. And that was the end of the
chapter. And then interestingly, I'd
(24:40):
noticed the end of the chapter is a run back to the curse, a
run back to the garden. Like God help me to, to live
according to my design. And so I just took that to Lord
too. Like Lord, I've been designed
this way to live with integrity,to walk with you, man.
I just want to do it. And so I actually sent it to my
(25:02):
family. And this morning I said, I want,
I want you to just rejoice in this good word here.
And, and, and that was it, you know, 1520 minutes later, I was
done. But, but it was the meditation
that fuelled the prayer. You know what I mean?
That wasn't just study. It was turning in my mind like
thinking about this in the context of my own life, letting
it sink into my heart. And then that drove the prayer,
(25:24):
right. And then, and then even the
desire for accountability with, with my family.
So I don't know if that's helpful, but just by way of
trying to think about a simple process of, well, here's today's
Scripture reading. There's a way to reflect on it,
build something that comes into your life that can connect to
(25:44):
your life and then go, man, Lord, I really want to get after
this. And that becomes the prayer.
So hopefully that's helpful. I know we could turn to any
number of different passages. I don't know if you guys want to
add anything there. I know we want to be thoughtful
about time to wrap up, but. Yeah, I think meditation is just
letting the word do a work on all these things are are secret
(26:05):
sins of the heart, right? There's all integrity issues.
And so meditation's just gettinginto, again, like those spaces
in your heart. Might we say the cauldron of
your heart? Everything's OK.
It's it's rough. We are getting to the end.
We got to start just using it. But taking all the s s and
putting them into the cauldron is what we get from meditation.
(26:26):
But it is. But.
It is, yeah, but it is a good Stew.
But yeah, it's just letting God use these passages for the
secret stuff that no one else can really see.
And a lot of these things are you and the Lord, which that's
the whole deal. The Lord sees all this stuff,
right? And I think desires you to
meditate, meditate, all these things.
(26:48):
I think it's helpful. Just even like we I'm picking up
on some of the same topics, but like now when you go back, I'm
assuming you are going to pick up in chapter 32 next tomorrow
morning. So whether it's your own
personal reading or whatever, but just consistently going, you
start like you look back at yourBible.
Well, you won't be able to look at your margin.
I will. Encounter with the Lord every
time. OK, so those that are wise who
(27:09):
have written some things down here, like it just brings an
excitement and anticipation for for what's coming, you know?
OK, now I remember where I was just at.
Let's see what the Lord has and it's more of communion with the
Lord in that kind of a way. And that's that's sweet.
That's not perfect. I none of us are perfect on
this, but just learning to chew your own meat.
(27:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah.
And if you can even just begin to make a beginning on this,
it's it's something better than than nothing.
And and again, we just want to help people who are who are just
tending toward and they they're in our church.
But maybe just if, if people arelistening or watching tend
towards, like you mentioned before, box checking in the
Christian life. But really, man, this is our
(27:52):
time to walk with the Lord privately to worship Christ
privately. What a what a sweet time.
And, and then and then, like we said, get on the day, right?
You have to get on the day. But hopefully that's helpful.
So join us again this next time everybody, if you're listening
or watching, because we do want to crack open.
I think the next time some of the questions that have been
coming in, both in the church body and and elsewhere too, and
(28:16):
all the hard questions go to Jeremy and all the easy ones go
to Matt and we'll make sure that.
So be sure to enjoy us again next time.
And thank you so much for listening to Afterward podcast
about conversations that matter in life and practice.
Thanks guys.
Welcome back to Afterward podcast with extended
conversations about topics that matter in life and in ministry.
Matt, welcome back. Jeremy, welcome back.
Thank you. Thank you, Kent.
You bet. Thank you for that.
Hey Matt, let's get right out ofthe gate.
I, I, I know that there have, there's a significant topic we
want to discuss with regard to meditation, but this morning you
(00:29):
threw out, I think what could become a term we would want to
use in some context in this particular podcast.
Yes. Would you want to show what that
is? I think it's deeply connected to
meditation, which is our topic for today, and I think should be
used in some context. Yep, my goal for today is to
work in the word cauldron, a very theological word that
somehow came up this morning. So we're going to work it in
(00:50):
somewhere. So be on your toes guys.
I. Look forward to that.
Yeah, why do you when he says Cauldron, what do you think
about Jeremy? What comes to mind?
Witches. Yep.
Very church. Yeah, for sure has wizard vibes.
I think it's going to be great. Yeah, very medieval too.
Deeply medieval. So let's see where that comes
up. I don't know, but it's good to,
it's good to have a little bit of a lighter moment.
(01:11):
Because the last time we we wrapped up with meditation, not
such a light topic, right? I mean, a life giving topic, but
but we wanted to get back into it because where we left off was
with what meditation isn't and what it is.
And so if you didn't listen to the podcast and and you're
listening now to this particularone, the one before is Part 1.
(01:32):
And we talked about that at length and even went to the
scriptures too, to talk about where do we see meditation in
the scriptures and what what it is as defined biblically and
what it can look like practically a little bit.
But in this particular episode, I think we wanted to drill
deeper into, OK, but what is it look like in our own life?
So I thought we could talk aboutwhat what it might look like for
(01:57):
people who are listening in or watching to actually actually
begin to practice biblical meditation.
And I'd like to maybe even just end with like, hey, here's an
example of what that could look like practically.
So as you guys think about meditation maybe a bit more
practically, what are some different ways that you see your
(02:17):
even in your own life meditationcoming into play?
How does that look? Just practically more?
I just crack it open kind of generally.
Sorry for the general or vague question to start.
OK, I can start. For me personally, going back to
when we talked about devotions, I like to read, don't always do
this, but I like to read and getsomething to chew on for the
(02:40):
rest of the day, which is reallywhat meditation is.
And in the sense of muttering orrepeating something, not not
mindless repetition, but just thinking about it.
And so I'm not always successfulat that, but what that would
look like for me in the general day-to-day would be reading the
word in the morning and then doing my best to like, OK, So
(03:00):
what do I want to think about? But it's not so much like what
do I want to think about personally, but more, Lord, what
do you want me to carry in throughout, carry throughout the
rest of the day? And actually, if I get jump
practical really quick. I've shared this in various
contexts, but sometimes, though not always, is did it more when
I had more of a commute. I realized that there are
(03:20):
strategic times when certain songs would stick in my mind and
so it was the last one before I got out of the car to go to work
or was the first one that I heard.
There's different times and so Iwould like if that's the time
frame that it's going to be stuck in my head, why not choose
when it's going to be tied to what I just read or what I want
to meditate on? And so it was awesome.
I would finish reading somethingabout whatever is easy in the
(03:42):
Psalms that makes me think of a song and then I'll go find that
song, not because it's my favorite one because it's going
to get stuck in my head and that's going to carry me
throughout the rest of the day. So that's just one practical
way. But really for me personally,
how I try to do it most days or like that's, that's my typical
goal. It's good.
Yeah, I think we were talking about this like what would be
(04:05):
different times where there's something worth meditating on
and even outside of personal devotions.
One of my habits is Sunday afternoon coming home and then
spending time going back and reviewing my notes both from the
life stage and then from the sermon.
And then I spend time there. That's actually where some of
the the writing comes in my Bible because I'll pull out
maybe one or two things that really stuck with me and then
(04:27):
I'll stick them next to the the verse that either we were
preaching through or that was inlife stage.
And I'm seeing they're meditating on them.
So I'm giving my chance myself achance to really savor what was
was served up essentially for for the day on Sunday.
And then that helps it stick throughout the week versus I
think, man, so much can go in and out of our minds and it's
(04:48):
all good. And it is in many ways
depositing whether we're sittingthere savoring or not.
But but you really need to to have some time to, to chew on
it. And that repeat visit in memory
is really important. So repetition in memory, hugely
important. It's just going to make it.
Stick Yeah, it's good. Actually.
I was thinking about different subjects too for meditation,
(05:09):
like connected to God's Word, obviously.
And and like I've appreciated Matt, you said a couple times it
it meditation biblically doesn'thave to just arise out of your
devotions properly. And you mentioned it too.
It can be a song as well throughout your day.
I was thinking about different times in my life where I find my
own mind and heart kind of stirred.
And even for me, walking home from church at night in
(05:32):
particular, I will frequently look up at the stars and just
think about the majesty of God, right?
The heavens declare the glory ofGod.
And that just leads me to just reflect on how small I am,
right? Because I mean, you're walking
on this globe as a speck compared to these giant orbs in
the, in the, in the sky and evenGod's care just with the moon
(05:53):
that rotates in ways that, you know, provides.
I just even think about this other stuff like tides and
movement of water and wind and weather all being affected by
things that we have 0 control over.
And I just thank the Lord for like God, thanks for taking care
of us. You know, so just for me
frequently walking can be a place where I, I draw on
subjects for meditation that come out of the scriptures,
(06:14):
right? I mean, I'm not just looking at
the stars and doing, I'm lookingat the stars and thinking about
Psalm 19, right, or Job, but it talks about Orion, etcetera.
I also think a lot about how we can meditate when we stumble and
fall in our sin and just the reflection on some of the
sinfulness of my own sin. So do not just like confess my
(06:34):
sin, but to really try to be building like a meditation on
like I need to be broken over this sin.
And there can be a reflection onor meditation on the awfulness
of sin, which of course then leads to it just a a meditation
on sometimes also on the cross and on the cost that Christ
paid. So the death of Christ, the
(06:56):
resurrection of Christ are usually in play when I'm
thinking about like man Lord, I'm so sorry.
You know about my own sin here. Just confessing it to him.
I wrote down a couple other onesjust reflecting on God's love
for us at any number of different points throughout our
day because he walks with us andso he's with us and can remind
us of his goodness. Well, really any of his
(07:18):
attributes. I keep AI personally keep a
poster in my office of the attributes of God.
It's like just adjacent to my desk.
And so for me, I sometimes will just reflect on like, man, I
haven't thought about the essayety of God in a while.
What is that again, you know what, and I have to go study at
(07:38):
first to, to to just reflect on.I'm so thankful for that
attribute of God. I I have thought before about
what Edwards reflected on most. He reflected most on heaven.
So he his meditations that were the most he would say ardent or
vital were the reflections and meditations he had in heaven.
(07:58):
He also would encourage people to reflect on hell and and
meditate on that and and be driven to the fear of the Lord,
which is the beginning of wisdom.
And so for him, he would add thelike various elements of the
afterlife right the next life aspotential subjects for
meditation. In other words, like we can take
(08:18):
biblical truth and then as we'reliving a life, we can have
different topics at different time or subjects, not just
texts, but subjects be fertile ground for meditation.
And I don't know, I don't know if that's I don't know if our
people live like that or things like that.
I think they do actually more than they probably if they
stopped and thought about it, they probably do.
They would call it worship. But really what that is, is it's
(08:41):
it's it starts with meditation. It leads to worship like man,
God, thank you so much, which isprayer, but worship.
Tell him how much he's worth, you know, his worthiness.
But it starts with those reflections, meditations, right.
Do you guys find that there are certain subjects in your own
life? I guess I'm asking a personal
question that for you have proved to be particularly kind
(09:03):
of impactful or fertile ground for meditation in your own life.
You mentioned songs and you mentioned sermons and so good
alliteration, by the way. Oh yeah, that's good.
Oh. Boy, I need, I need another S.
Cauldron. That doesn't start with an S, so
it's still. We can't use it yet.
OK, I'm sorry, I tried. But I, I, let me jump off of 1
(09:26):
of the things you said about creation.
We have become so confined by walls, right?
Like we are just and on technology and stuff.
And so you mentioned some thingsthat are meaningful.
I think Christ does this. So Psalm 19, consider the
heavens. Christ, whenever he says
consider or observe, he's sayingmeditate.
(09:46):
So he says go to the birds, right?
Consider the birds of the air orconsider the lilies.
Neither they toil or spin, but he's doing it with a purpose.
So it's not like your meditationhas no effect on you.
It's actually calming your mind,right?
So you don't spin in toil. So for me, when I think about
that, I think about walks that I've had or, you know, just
different times where rainbows come out reminding me of God's
(10:06):
promises or just little birds. And like, as much as I feel
small thinking about the heavens, I feel really large
when I consider the birds and valuable to God.
So, so many different ways whereyou just got to get out of
technology, out of the walls andgo for a hike and just let the
Lord use his creation. Let me compliment that with.
(10:28):
I was going to try to work in. It's not coming.
OK. Another SA situation.
Is that good alliteration? We got that.
OK, there we go. So here's the deal.
So you guys are, where are we at?
Right now, so we're at situationsermon.
Song. Song, we got this well done.
OK, So what I'm thinking, you guys are talking about going for
walks by yourself and Sunday afternoon, and I was talking
(10:49):
about devotions. There is one of the ways that I
would have found myself attempting to meditate when I'm
with people, when I'm not alone,when I can't get away is to
think about like, you know, we're really good at looking at
other people's sin. Like, hey, he's he just kind of
has like a sharp tongue. He just says whatever comes in
his mind For me. If I that's an area that I know
(11:12):
I need to work on, then I'll actually, if I identify sin and
somebody else, I will then do mybest to turn it back around on
myself. Like Lord, in what ways do I do
that? So I will, I don't mean like I'm
running around all day looking for sins so I can find something
to meditate on, but I do my bestto win it.
When I, my flesh will point out something that someone else
(11:34):
does. Oh, he's so loud or he's always
turning the conversation about him to himself or whatever.
Then I can take it and say, likeLord, how do I do that?
In what situation today might I have done that?
Maybe to a different degree, butnonetheless it's it's an
attitude where you're looking tothe Lord to do some self
reflection and you're with people, you're not alone.
(11:56):
So another way to do it. Yeah, it's good.
It's good. I was thinking about ways you
can kind of branch off of other things.
So we've mentioned those that alliterated set of sermons,
songs and situations, but you can also think about different
kind of sections that you can branch off of.
(12:16):
And so I, I remember reading. So we're going to get to a
resource I think is really important that you're going to
mention just a little bit. But there's Joseph Hall, which
I've read before and been impacted by.
He says, as you, as you start tomeditate, so let's say that
you're reading a section of scripture or you've heard a
sermon or you're, you know, a situation in life hits you then
consider what's relative or correlative or contrasted with
(12:37):
it. So he says, OK, so consider that
object or subject itself, then consider the causes of it.
So like, for example, if you're reflecting or meditating on your
own sin or the sin that you see in somebody else and you want to
turn back like to yourself, thenyou want to consider the cause
of that sin. Like run it backwards into the
Scripture. Like what sin is connected to
(12:59):
it, right? So if it's arrogance, it's
connected to pride. And so you want to think about
like man I or if it's double toned, it's connected to deceit
or maybe to hypocrisy. So you're kind of running now
you're meditating on something that's related to it, but
expands it, you know, and then that's going backward logically.
And then he says, once you do that, then then reflect on or
(13:19):
meditate on the effects of that sin.
If we're using a sin, for example.
So run it forward and think about the potential, like, oh
man, think about the damage thatcould happen if I just give full
vent to this sin where? Well, in your workplace or in
your home or with your extended family or with your church
family, Like just let your mind kind of run out there and be in
(13:41):
this case with sin, the affection that would get stirred
would be fear, the fear of the Lord.
Good fear, right? A godly fear when you think
about the effects of it. And then he says you can also
consider what's similar to it. So arrogance, while it's similar
to pride, that might be similar to Vainglory.
That might be similar to selfishambition.
(14:03):
You know, you can think about other ways like, Oh yeah, I do
see selfish ambition in me. And so you're kind of swinging
to something to the side of it. So in other words, what he's
having us think about is meditation can start here with
the subject, but then run backwards with the causes of it
for further, deeper reflection. Run out ahead of yourself to the
effects of it out in front. That kind of causes the rising
(14:27):
fear. Again, if meditation is about
the sin and then what's similar to it?
Kind of what's what? What are the peer group sins,
the related sins, and then what's opposite to it?
What's the virtue that's opposite to the sin and that the
the net effect of that meditation is probably a rising
affection and desire to pursue that virtue and kill this vice.
(14:49):
And so I love that. I mean, I don't do that.
I just, I need to do that. But I, when I think about that
man, you, you can see how someone could do like just be
meditating on a single subject for a, for a while, right?
And, and, and so the idea there is that you're in meditation,
rekindling the affections. So you're not just like
(15:11):
thinking, you're not just reflecting, you're actually
trying to, in the case of a sin,you're trying to repent of it.
And what is repentance? Well, it's hating my sin enough
to forsake it, right? It's not just forsaking it.
It's like, I want to build a hatred for it.
Or if you're reflecting on the love of God you want to you you
want the effect to be I am I just so love the Lord has this
(15:34):
growth in love right like love excel still more and more and so
to build an increased affection is the goal either way.
I mean a positive affection or anegative affection.
That should be how you know thatmeditation is is taking root in
a way that will bear good fruit.And so I don't know if that
makes sense. That's helpful because I
(15:55):
sometimes we can think that we are meditating by just thinking
about something just batting around in our minds.
Someone says, what'd you hear onSunday?
Which what are you thinking about?
And you can name something, but really it just stops in your own
head. And that's helpful to hear you
articulate it like that with help with Hall, but just
thinking about like, OK, wait, hold on a second.
(16:16):
There's an aspect of this which affection for the Lord.
I'm thinking about this for the ultimate goal of wanting to
increase my affections for Him. It's a lot different than just
trying to figure out what it is that I read or what I heard.
Yeah, to me, it was making me think of Psalm 139 because
you're you're getting to the endand you're like, search me, O
(16:36):
God, and know my heart, right? Help me in my meditations, like
get into the nooks and crannies of my heart.
In the context there, it's because I don't want to be like
my enemies, like I'm, I don't want that sin in my life.
So search it out of me before itlooks like that, like what I'm
seeing from my enemies right now.
So it's just that deep longing and I have to share this.
(16:59):
So I was trying to think of an illustration, but kind of
reminds me of chocolate. Have you guys ever gotten those
Trader Joe's like packs of chocolate with like from all
these different countries? Oh yeah, those are.
Tasty. So you're like, you can just eat
chocolate and just consume it. It's fine.
But with those they'll tell you like the notes of the chocolate
you're supposed to taste and allthis.
So my family will try to like not know what it is and guess
(17:20):
the notes and the location. So but you have to savor it.
You can't just eat it and drop it down.
You're like sitting there. You're like letting the
chocolate sit there and you're looking at it and like, I think
it's grassy and someone else like, no, no, no, that's not
grassy. That's rosebuds or something.
And you're like, what? But but it's because you're
going from just eating it to savoring it to know it.
(17:42):
And then you go, oh, now I'm seeing or tasting these notes
that I didn't notice before, which then leads to affection
because you're like, this is so good.
What a sweet taste or what a a sweet bite that I had that I
would have never noticed. I would have just chucked it
down like I would a Hershey bar.So just an illustration.
I was thinking of how to go fromsavoring to then it like you're
(18:02):
saying, can it, it works on youraffection.
It should draw you out. Yeah.
And then we would say, obviouslywith the affections
appropriately stirred, then the,the, the drive of the word to
the will is not hard. It's a very natural volitional
almost attraction. Like if your affections are
(18:23):
working in the right direction, then the volition just naturally
follows, right obedience, faithfulness, whatever
repentance, contrition, broken, all that stuff just kind of
falls out of a heart that's beeninformed or renewed by the
Scripture through the mind. And then as it drops into the
heart, the affections are stirred.
Then the life changes somewhat naturally, supernaturally writes
(18:46):
the spirit, but in that flow naturally so.
That starts to play into when you're going to listen to a
sermon or you listen to a song, or you're in the word yourself.
All of a sudden you're on your toes, so to speak.
You're listening for certain things.
Your, your mind is already going.
You know you're not. You're not having to play catch
up when all of a sudden the wordis opened.
Yeah, that's good. Well, I don't know what the time
(19:09):
we have left you guys. I thought maybe we could take a
few minutes actually to, I mean,we've talked about more of the
practical elements of it, like what what will we actually do to
start our minds thinking about, you know, subjects?
And then how do we in a sense, kind of look at the subject,
push it back, push it forward, push it to the side and have our
affections be stirred. That then resolves the will.
(19:32):
So hopefully that broad framework helps.
But maybe we can just spend a few minutes helping people, even
just look at a passage and go like, hey, this is how this can
turn from in your devotions. And I appreciate it's not in
devotions only, but as we're talking about our time in the
word, then to have that turn from reading to meditating to,
you know, worshipping and praying.
(19:53):
So I thought it'd be good. I was just in the word this
morning in Job 31. So if you guys want to turn
there and I don't know if you'relistening and you're in the car,
do not turn in your Bibles to this passage.
But if you're. If you're in a place where you
could just Job 31 is a long chapter, so it's not the right
time to read all of it, but there is, there is.
(20:17):
And I noticed just reading this morning, there's a series of of
a pattern that starts with Job in Job 31, not in verse 1 so
much where he says I've made a covenant with my eyes.
How then can I gaze at a virgin?But the next stanza in verse 5
says, if I have walked with falsehood.
(20:37):
And then in verse 9, the next stanza, if my heart has been
enticed toward a woman. And then in verse 13, next
stanza, if I have rejected the cause of my manservant or my
maid servant. So I started noticing and
reading, oh, here's a pattern. And so from the pattern I just
started trying to like summarize.
Well, here's what I think that pattern is.
(21:00):
That sin issue is that he's struggling with and I just, I
just quickly wrote them all down.
So not in your Bible. Not in my Bible.
I'm not a Bible writer. In her.
Yeah, sorry, Matt. It's OK.
Source of grief? Yeah.
Are. You allowed for meditation.
I write in my Bible not as much as Matt does.
Yeah, Matt, yeah, yeah, you, youmark yours up for the while.
(21:22):
So. So I just thought if we could
just walk through these, maybe we can just see how it turns
very naturally to man. Lord help me here.
So like, for example, I wrote down, if, you know, I've I've
made a covenant with my eyes, how then could I gaze at a
virgin? And so there's other things
there and that stanza, but I just thought about that
statement and just said, man, I do.
(21:44):
I just need to be so much more disciplined to to be purposeful,
not to look, not to gaze at women, you know, So I just left
out there and moved on to the next stanza, verse 5.
And I just thought like, I want to walk with integrity, right?
Because verse 6 talks about integrity and not with deceit.
(22:10):
And I just thought about that for a while.
Like, is there any place in my life where that would mark me
and just for a minute or two andthen moved on, you know, the
next stanza. So what this turned into was,
and I don't know if you guys areskipping ahead here, but verse
9, if my heart has been enticed toward a woman related to the
(22:32):
first stanza, but maybe just noteven letting your heart go,
right? The first one's about gays, the
second one's about heart. And so if you're thinking about
women, even, Lord, I don't even want to think about that, you
know? And on and on it goes.
I mean, I don't know if you guyshave any thoughts here through
the rest of it. I wrote in my Bible next to
verse 9, adultery in heart. So I actually have something.
(22:52):
It's funny that you turn here. I have something written in each
one. So verse one, purity, verse 5,
honesty, verse 9, adultery. So I was doing a similar thing,
reflecting on it. Then it gets into justice with
employers, justice with people outside.
So it's good. It's good.
Yeah. Yeah, it ends up being I think
by and again, I was reading thisjust in devotionally right.
(23:14):
So I came up with with 10, but what, what it did for me was
just reflecting on each of thoseand, and really kind of like
Job's integrity is, you know, being questioned, right?
I mean, that's his, that's his counselors, but he's also doing
a ton of soul searching. So I don't know, I just looked
at this and thought, here's whathere's what it turned into to
(23:35):
me. For me, it turned into
reflecting on these things, all ten of them, and then turning
into a prayer. So here's what it turned into
this morning. And I just took this Lord in
prayer after a few minutes. Father, help me not to look on a
young woman, verses one through 4, but to look only upon my
wife. Help me not to live life with
any deceit, verses 5 through 8, but to walk with integrity.
(23:57):
Help me to not be enticed by another woman, but to enjoy my
wife instead, verses 9 through 12.
Help me not to spurn those who work under me, verses 13 through
15, but to listen to them well. Help me to not disregard the
cause of the poor, the fatherless, and the widow,
verses 16 through 23 but to defend them.
Help me not to trust in wealth or delight in it, but to steward
(24:19):
it, to not rejoice in my enemy'sruin, but to love them and pray
for them. Help me not to be stingy with
what I have, but to be generous.Help me not to hide my sin, but
to confess and mortify it. Help me not to exercise dominion
poorly, but to exercise dominionas God desires properly.
Genesis 1. And that was the end of the
chapter. And then interestingly, I'd
(24:40):
noticed the end of the chapter is a run back to the curse, a
run back to the garden. Like God help me to, to live
according to my design. And so I just took that to Lord
too. Like Lord, I've been designed
this way to live with integrity,to walk with you, man.
I just want to do it. And so I actually sent it to my
(25:02):
family. And this morning I said, I want,
I want you to just rejoice in this good word here.
And, and, and that was it, you know, 1520 minutes later, I was
done. But, but it was the meditation
that fuelled the prayer. You know what I mean?
That wasn't just study. It was turning in my mind like
thinking about this in the context of my own life, letting
it sink into my heart. And then that drove the prayer,
(25:24):
right. And then, and then even the
desire for accountability with, with my family.
So I don't know if that's helpful, but just by way of
trying to think about a simple process of, well, here's today's
Scripture reading. There's a way to reflect on it,
build something that comes into your life that can connect to
(25:44):
your life and then go, man, Lord, I really want to get after
this. And that becomes the prayer.
So hopefully that's helpful. I know we could turn to any
number of different passages. I don't know if you guys want to
add anything there. I know we want to be thoughtful
about time to wrap up, but. Yeah, I think meditation is just
letting the word do a work on all these things are are secret
(26:05):
sins of the heart, right? There's all integrity issues.
And so meditation's just gettinginto, again, like those spaces
in your heart. Might we say the cauldron of
your heart? Everything's OK.
It's it's rough. We are getting to the end.
We got to start just using it. But taking all the s s and
putting them into the cauldron is what we get from meditation.
(26:26):
But it is. But.
It is, yeah, but it is a good Stew.
But yeah, it's just letting God use these passages for the
secret stuff that no one else can really see.
And a lot of these things are you and the Lord, which that's
the whole deal. The Lord sees all this stuff,
right? And I think desires you to
meditate, meditate, all these things.
(26:48):
I think it's helpful. Just even like we I'm picking up
on some of the same topics, but like now when you go back, I'm
assuming you are going to pick up in chapter 32 next tomorrow
morning. So whether it's your own
personal reading or whatever, but just consistently going, you
start like you look back at yourBible.
Well, you won't be able to look at your margin.
I will. Encounter with the Lord every
time. OK, so those that are wise who
(27:09):
have written some things down here, like it just brings an
excitement and anticipation for for what's coming, you know?
OK, now I remember where I was just at.
Let's see what the Lord has and it's more of communion with the
Lord in that kind of a way. And that's that's sweet.
That's not perfect. I none of us are perfect on
this, but just learning to chew your own meat.
(27:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah.
And if you can even just begin to make a beginning on this,
it's it's something better than than nothing.
And and again, we just want to help people who are who are just
tending toward and they they're in our church.
But maybe just if, if people arelistening or watching tend
towards, like you mentioned before, box checking in the
Christian life. But really, man, this is our
(27:52):
time to walk with the Lord privately to worship Christ
privately. What a what a sweet time.
And, and then and then, like we said, get on the day, right?
You have to get on the day. But hopefully that's helpful.
So join us again this next time everybody, if you're listening
or watching, because we do want to crack open.
I think the next time some of the questions that have been
coming in, both in the church body and and elsewhere too, and
(28:16):
all the hard questions go to Jeremy and all the easy ones go
to Matt and we'll make sure that.
So be sure to enjoy us again next time.
And thank you so much for listening to Afterward podcast
about conversations that matter in life and practice.
Thanks guys.
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