November 19, 2025 • 34 mins
We map residual herbicide rates with field truth, not guesses, turning five-zone soil maps into targeted prescriptions that cut injury and hit weed spawn sites. We weigh OM, pH, texture, and landscape to protect sensitive crops now and keep rotations flexible next year.
In this episode we discuss...
• base maps from precision soil sampling and scouting knowledge
• modded zones for unique poor areas and weed hotspots
• organic matter, carbonate, and color as soil clues, not absolutes
• extreme pH swings shaping efficacy, injury, and carryover
• decision framework from damage mitigation to suppression
• variable rates to protect sensitive crops and rotations
• SmartFirmer OM layers and controller-friendly rate steps
• lidar, soil series, and as‑applied maps to refine zones
• practical limits of sensors and when algorithms help
• closing insights and where we push rates or back off
Missed the first two parts of this episode? Check out our previous episodes! https://www.buzzsprout.com/2297340
https://gktechinc.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah (00:00):
And now it's time for Ag Geek Speak with GK Technology's,
Sarah and Jodi.
Theme Song (00:10):
In the fields again.
I just can't wait to get in thefields again.
The life I love is writtenproduct for my friend.
And I can't wait to get in thefields again.
No, I can't wait to get in thefields again.
Sarah (00:31):
Welcome back to Ag Geek Speak.
We were having so much funtalking with Kyle Okke for the
previous two episodes that wethought we'd bring him back for
a third.
Third times a charm.
Truth be known, we were havingsuch a great uh conversation
about variable rate pesticidesin particular, herbicides, that
(00:53):
we thought we would um continuethe conversation.
In the previous two episodes,episode one of this series, we
talked about the concept of, youknow, just what this variable
rate residual herbicide conceptis.
The second episode, we talk alot about the equipment and the
actual sprayer technology that'sneeded in order to make this
(01:16):
happen.
But we've concluded the secondconversation.
And here we make maps at GKTechnology, and we haven't even
talked about mapping.
So let's get back into itagain, Kyle.
And um, first of all, help usunderstand just roughly like
when you start to think abouteven putting together a map,
(01:39):
where do you even where do youeven start with trying to figure
out the data that you need tofigure out how to variable rate
this this?
Kyle Okke (01:48):
So I guess where I absolutely started on the on the
the coarsest level withoutgetting into the fine details,
is I I am still just utilizingthe zone productivity maps that
I soil sample off of.
Sarah (02:06):
Okay.
Kyle Okke (02:06):
So I I I am in a lot of cases using that very map
still.
And and especially wheneverything kind of lines up
nice, like I was saying offline.
I said the my favorite partabout using ADMS is that the
user has full control over whatyou're doing.
And so there's nothing, uh notyet, anyways, that a fully
(02:29):
automated zone making systemthat is gonna get it right.
It takes intimate knowledge ofthe person doing the mapping of
the field to really uh and thattakes collaboration with the
person that farms in some cases,or and in many cases, I should
say, uh, and then or or you'rethe agronomist that's out
(02:50):
four-wheeling in that field allsummer, and you see how crops
produce on there, and you go,well, that bad spot is bad
because of this reason, and thatbad spot over there is bad
because of this reason.
We we focus a lot on the poorareas, which happen to be the
driving force behind makingthese variable rate residual
maps.
Sarah (03:08):
Okay.
Kyle Okke (03:09):
And so, yeah, so it so you see a poor area because
maybe it has a thin clay pan sixinches under the ground and it
accumulates a lot of solublesalts.
And no matter what, that areaprobably isn't gonna grow field
peas very well.
It probably isn't gonna growsunflowers or some of these
other things really well.
(03:29):
I personally want to put moreproduct down in those areas
because that's the respawn spotfor for uh kosher as is the big
driver there.
And so I'm okay with it being asacrificial to the crop area if
I can try to hammer it harderwith a residual herbicide in
that area.
Sarah (03:49):
And reduce the overall seed bank uh for the entire
field is kind of your thoughtprocess.
The weed seed bank.
Sorry.
Okay.
Kyle Okke (03:56):
I I actually have other ideas around those areas,
but I'm not gonna go there yet.
Um, but but then, anyways, youknow, so you have you have pore
because of like the traditionalwhere we're reducing the rate
because it's coarse soils andhigh organic or uh coarse soils,
low organic matter, high pH.
Um, those areas and and thoseare uncovered.
(04:18):
Yeah, once you make a reallyawesome zone map, because you're
using ADMS, you're using yourpersonal knowledge of the field,
you're parsing out and you'redoing the mod zone thing.
So you're you're you're all ofa sudden going from your
standard, you know, five zonemap or three zone map, let's
call it, but I like five zones,and now you're modding things
(04:39):
and you're going, well, thispoor area is because of this
reason, this poor area isbecause of this reason.
Totally different landscapeposition.
So all of a sudden you haveyour five-zone map and it turns
into a six or seven or eightzone map.
Sarah (04:50):
Yep.
Kyle Okke (04:50):
Because of because of those things.
And once you have thoseparameters separated out, and
now you're and now if thoseextra zones are big enough,
sometimes they're small.
You're like, oh yeah, well,that's that's white.
The ground is and all it doesis grow kosher.
You're like, I don't reallyneed to know much more about
that.
I don't need to soil sample itto tell you that it's got a
thousand parts per millionsodium, and the pH is like nine,
(05:14):
you know, things like that.
But then you have, but thenyou'll get these bigger areas,
and you're like, well, no, cropgrows in them.
And so then then you start, butonce you have them separated,
all of a sudden the results makea lot more sense when you get
them.
And then and then that's thepower of that.
So that's the base map, Iguess, that I've always used for
doing the variable rateresidual applications because
(05:36):
you know, went through the duediligence through your guys'
help initially teaching me, youknow, what what to you know how
to mod those things out, and andand then all of a sudden the
results make sense.
And then so that's that'sreally the majority of the map I
use is my base map from soilsampling.
Sarah (05:53):
But one of the things that I have enjoyed about when
you're soil sampling in the fallof the year on your social
media accounts where people canfollow you, I I love it when you
go out and you soil samplethese different zones and you
are showing just even thedifferent colors of the soil in
the buckets, yeah.
Huge differences.
(06:15):
And then when you put that withthe soil sample results beside
that, uh it's just amazing.
So, can you in some of thesefields that you manage, can you
help us understand the diversityof soil parameters that would
affect the activity of aresidual herbicide?
Like what's the variabilitythat you're that you're finding
(06:36):
across some of these fields thatyou're managing?
Kyle Okke (06:39):
So the color really stands out.
The color of the color is thetail.
You you can you can go fromlike this nice, really dark
looking soil to like almost avery light tan or white in some
cases, and and the colordifference is actually mostly
organic matter.
(06:59):
That's that's the bigdifference there.
And so you can generally tellhigh versus low organic matter,
although the soil, the soil testtells you exactly how much
organic matter.
It's way better at telling youthe true organic matter in those
areas because I've had thesehuge color differences.
(07:20):
I'm like, wow, this must belike a three or four point
organic matter differencebecause I do have that big of a
spread sometimes in fields.
But I've had those huge colordifferences and still only be
like a point and a half oforganic matter change.
Jodi (07:36):
That's a really good observation, right?
Because like one thing too, youmentioned about your high spots
in your fields, like yourhilltops, those tend to have a
higher calcium carbonate levelor higher pH, which means
there's likely a lot morecalcium carbonate.
Kyle Okke (07:50):
It's totally what it is, yeah.
Jodi (07:52):
It it's it's white, like it imparts a whiteness to the
soil.
You can see that here in thevalley, um, places with high
calcium carbonate.
You can see that whiteness inthe soil.
So yeah, like you were saying,organic matter is uh
contributing to the color, butthere's other things too that
can be a part of that that arecontributing to it.
Kyle Okke (08:11):
Definitely other parameters that are affecting
that.
But but yeah, it's like seemslike organic matter is the big
one, right?
But yeah, the calciumcarbonate.
So so there's things like Idon't know, gives you your
agronomous spidey sense on thatone.
You're yeah, you're looking atthat, you're like, oh, okay,
yep.
You can really see thedifference here, and and yeah,
(08:31):
then when you see that likereally light color, you're like,
hmm, that must have morecalcium carbonate in there.
Because there's some that arejust plain red, you know, and
you get that too, and that'smaybe more like parent material
than it is anything.
Sarah (08:45):
So, and that's interesting because in your neck
of the woods, not only do youapparently have these areas
where you've got accumulationsof calcium carbonate, which for
the world out there that wantsthe layman's term, that's lime.
Okay.
So if you have a low soil pH,what do you do?
You apply lime.
So that's just areas ofaccumulated lime, high pH, but
(09:06):
then you also deal with a lot oflow pH areas out there.
So it's interesting to me tothink about this uh residual
herbicide concept from um even asoil pH parameter.
So what um what what are someof the soil pH differences that
you can find out there across uhsome of some of some of your
(09:28):
fields?
Kyle Okke (09:28):
Well, if you like here here's the highest and
here's the lowest that I'veseen.
So the highest I've seen intothe high eights, um, like 8.7, I
think, is maybe some of thehighest I've seen.
Jodi (09:41):
Oofta.
Kyle Okke (09:42):
Yeah, oofta meta.
Yeah, pretty high.
Jodi (09:44):
Yeah.
Kyle Okke (09:45):
On the low end.
Uh I've I've been in the fourson on the low end.
Now that's extreme.
Like the only time I ever endedup with fours in soil sampling
is diagnostic soil sampling.
And so that's those are theplaces I've done that where I
had the combination ofsomething's not right in this
(10:08):
field, and the these patches arelike dead.
They came up, but they're dead.
And it's like, what's going onhere?
This year we did some again atuh Durham, which is susceptible
to acidic pH.
Or it's more, I would, it's notas susceptible to acidic pH,
it's susceptible to aluminumtoxicity more so or more
(10:29):
sensitive than hard red springwheat to absolutely low pH
problems then.
Yeah, to to the problemsassociated with low pH.
There we go.
And and diagnostically soilsampling, very specifically,
like the spot on the spot.
Yeah, we've got some four downto like the low fours.
Oh and I've heard of some inthe high threes.
(10:50):
I've heard in those areas.
Yeah.
Jodi (10:52):
And those diagnostic tests, was that zero to three or
zero to six that you weregetting those low fours?
Kyle Okke (10:57):
I I haven't uh I haven't diagnostid zero done
zero to threes.
It's all been zero to six.
Jodi (11:03):
So even at a zero to six, you're getting to low fours.
Kyle Okke (11:06):
Yeah, I guess that's the barometer I put myself on
stuff when I'm like, hey, I'm inthe low fours on a zero to six.
I I could give two craps aboutthe zero to three because most
of the time you'll get, I mean,you'll see where it's lower pH
in there because that'sstratified.
But when you're now taking yourentire acre furrow slice and
you're seeing that low, you'relike, we got a problem.
Jodi (11:28):
Yep.
Kyle Okke (11:28):
Tillage can't fix that problem.
Jodi (11:30):
No.
Kyle Okke (11:31):
Flipping flipping the soil over isn't gonna do it.
You know, this this is uh thatthat's called your base material
doesn't even have enoughcalcium carbonate in it to to
overcome this.
You gotta add it.
You know, so that's that'sdefinitely so so diagnostically
sampling, but I I would say likeon a normal, like when you look
(11:54):
at the traditional precisionsoil sampling that I've been
doing, I do see in the low fivesquite often.
Jodi (12:03):
Which is indicative that there are spots that are below
five throughout those areas thatabsolutely and and thinking
about Sarah's question and andabout like how you're putting
these maps together and howyou're choosing rates, like I'm
guessing it's probably afield-by-field basis of like
(12:24):
Yeah, you're in a field.
What do you look at first?
Like, do you say, I know I needto reduce the rate for the
hilltops to focus on cropsafety?
Or I suppose you what's yourthought process?
Where do you even start to makethe decision on how you're
gonna vary things?
Kyle Okke (12:40):
So the only farms that I've been doing this with
on the variable rate is one,they have to have the sensitive
crop that we've have the historyof going what we've been doing
at flat rates is detrimental tothe sensitive areas.
So it starts there and then italso kind of goes like do we
(13:03):
have a manageable weedpopulation?
Because if we're gonna reducethe rate, are we gonna be okay
doing that?
You know, like even if you haveperfectly clean, clean fields,
it doesn't mean that you don'twant to use uh residual
herbicide at all, right?
Especially in these specialtycrops, because we do not have a
post-emergent option that's veryeffective.
(13:25):
The best option is thepre-emergent option.
So even with clean fields, westill want to apply something to
the field so we have a layer ofprotection.
So we're we're gonna be puttingsomething no matter what.
But I've got some farms thatI'm like our kosher pressure is
far too great.
Um, sometimes I've just likesaid, no, you're not planting
(13:48):
sunflowers, not in this field.
We're you know, so I I've I'veI've legitimately had those
conversations.
And we and we joke about that.
I go, you know, and I I likeone of the guys was the first
year I worked with them, and andI said, I'm not gonna rock the
boat, I'm more here to like helpyou along, make sure there's no
disasters, but I don't wannaI'm not gonna change a lot of
(14:09):
what you do.
I want to know how you operatefirst.
And I remember seeing one ofthe first fields and it was
slated to go to to Sunflowers,and I'm like, nope, this isn't
happening.
Jodi (14:19):
Nope.
Kyle Okke (14:24):
I was like, not happening.
Yeah.
Jodi (14:28):
So so it sounds like uh in general, right?
Like you're going in with thepurpose of okay, are we are we
trying to reduce cropsensitivity here?
Like that's that's probably themain goal.
Kyle Okke (14:40):
And then that's the that's the big driver, and then
as time's gone, and and so thistakes field history.
So this this is you know forthe field, the farms I consult
for.
And it's like I was saying atthe you know, in the previous uh
session is that we have theseperpetual problem areas, and and
(15:02):
that's where now we're lookingharder, going, okay, we can
identify these perpetual problemareas, know that with the rest
of the parameters we have inthose areas, we could run a
stronger rate without withoutinjuring our crop because we
have the correct parameters.
Now, now we're looking at, youknow, how do we layer on top of
(15:23):
this or how do we, you know,adjust what we're doing instead
of just just being a damagemitigation to the crop, but
actually being effective or moreeffective on our weed control
basis by running stronger ratesof residual where needed.
Jodi (15:40):
I also like you've oh go ahead, Sarah.
Sarah (15:43):
I I also want to throw in that this can help us manage
our rotation for next year too.
There's so often where wherewe're we're dealing with
especially with specialty cropswhere there's not a lot of
herbicide options, you know, wewant to make sure that we are
managing the weeds in the cropthe year of because we know
we're gonna be raising more ofthese specialty crops going
(16:04):
forward.
And that rotational restrictionum going to future crops can
sometimes be a challenge.
So, you know, let's say you'vegot a soybean acre out there
with self-entrazone and you wantto go to, you know, some other
crop out there where there'srotational restrictions.
Hope, you know, even if you'reapplying an average rate across
(16:26):
a field that is by the label, ifyou've got these variable areas
within a field, that rotationcan really get affected in
spots.
You can see the effect the thenext year.
So you know, yeah, we have tomake sure that we're maximizing
the weed control in these areas.
We need to make sure that we'reminimizing the injury in the
(16:48):
year of, and we also need tomake sure we've got that
rotational restriction that'sactually gonna work um the
following year, too.
Jodi (16:56):
And it sounds like Kyle, like right now you kind of have
like a basic level, like levelone, let's just mitigate damage.
But then, like beyond that,like you said, like wouldn't you
have a feel for the crophistory and how things respond?
Like level two is like, okay,destroy spawn sites.
Can we increase the rates alittle bit and make make the
herbicide more effective?
And then level three might beokay.
(17:16):
We can even push some ratesfurther in areas that have
different pH levels that we wecan see, or uh what are some
other things?
Are there anything else thatyou consider to like increasing
your rate?
Kyle Okke (17:27):
Um, so so base level, like level one kind of style is
is using that very well thoughtout zone map that has the mod
areas so that you have correctlyparsed out, you know, zones
that that are representative ofthe actual parameters that are
making them the poor areas.
(17:47):
Okay, so so then so then youhave as accurate as possible,
which that's like the big leapinto it.
But then there's there there'sactually pretty decent equipment
out there, and so one of themis I have the fortune to work
with two farms right now, andthey have these smart firmers
(18:08):
from Precision Planting on theirplanters, and that has an
organic matter screen on it, andso it makes this really nice
organic matter map, and so it'snot it's it's relative organic
matter, but it it it's prettyclose.
So it so if you take theorganic matter map, which it
(18:30):
makes this really awesomegranular organic matter map with
a with a real fine detail ofwhere it's high and low, and it
gives you kind of a generalpercentage organic matter, but
it's relative, you know, it'snot calibrated, it's just a
relative organic matter.
So if you take your knowledgeof okay, soil sample says this
(18:51):
on each zone, and now I have myorganic matter map from my smart
firm or planter, it's supercool data.
You you go you immediately seelike where the lowest stuff is,
you're like, that's exactlywhere the injury is happening
the worst.
Sarah (19:05):
Are you kind of like cross-calibrating it then back
to your your soil sample resultsthat you actually get from from
soil sampling, and then you cansee the variability from the
smart firm or map?
Kyle Okke (19:17):
So so I haven't been cross-calibrating necessarily
because I I think still in theend, like unless you have nozzle
by nozzle control on uh yoursprayer, you can't get super
granular with your application.
You're still applying acrossyour whole boom for the most
part, and so you still gottaremember, like where we have
(19:40):
this like super fine resolutionkind of data with like yeah, you
know, so so we can paint thisdata with like these really fine
brush strokes, but we're likeusing a roller painter for your
wall for the application.
Jodi (19:58):
You know, we're going to the Bob Ross episode.
We talked about that back inseason one of Ag Geek Speed.
Sarah (20:04):
Happy Trees, happy trees.
Kyle Okke (20:07):
Yeah, yeah.
We have we have the Bob Ross ofof map quality, but your
sprayer is more like yourcommercial painter for a house.
You know, like like sure, youcan you you can do so much, but
you can't, but that commercialpainter isn't gonna be able to
(20:28):
do what Bob Ross does.
So you have to keep that inmind.
So so that's back to like wherethose layers of information are
extremely helpful.
And for me, it's helping makethe decision, like there might
be certain like areas that I modthat I go, I do actually want
to shut off self-entrazone on acouple of those because it's
(20:51):
it's so low in organic matter,like it's it's finding the
bullseye.
And so then then you cancross-reference and go, hey,
yep, this area is definitely bigenough.
This this'll actually make afew cells for the rate
controller to actually catchwhere it could shut it off.
Sarah (21:08):
So when you have so you primarily use zones, your
productivity zones, and youassign your your carrier rate to
the zone, and so your variablerating, your carrier rate, and
you know what your activeingredient rates are gonna be
going into that carrier rate.
Um once you have thatprescription built, have you
(21:30):
ever modded or changed areaswithin the prescription itself
to do something maybe a littlebit different or enhance, you
know, the the prescriptionthat's coming out of the those
um those zone assigned rates?
Kyle Okke (21:46):
Yeah, yeah, there's definitely modding the whole way
through.
Like I said, it it like it'skind of that's the fun part
about ADMS is that you can getas very detail specific as you
want and all that.
You know, so uh the the big oneis instead of having like these
nice i uh feathered rates, youyou kind of um I've been going
(22:08):
by like single gallon breaks.
So so then the zones go by thethe changes are single gallons
at a time.
And depending on the the ratecontroller, it seems like uh
like the the John Deere and theRaven stuff, I've just gone
(22:28):
single gallon rates that'shandled it flawlessly, no
issues.
Um like a Pro 700 seems likeand the Trimble systems seem
like they're just any any wayyou can make it more simple, the
better it performs, and thenthen instead of doing like you
(22:49):
know, I cut it in half evenmore, so then it's gone to just
like like if we're gonna go fromfive to ten gallons, I do a
five, a seven and a half, and aten instead of like a five, six,
seven, eight, nine, ten kind ofthing.
And and do the rate changeslike that.
So the rate controllers I'veplayed with a little bit by you
(23:10):
know changing my my parameterswithin each zone.
Uh that way.
I also like to do the mod areathing and and I and and I'm c so
this is like where you knowlike all of us that spent a lot
of time on ADMS have multiplescreens.
Yep.
And so so I'll have a screen ofthe lidar overlay with the zone
(23:32):
map, and and I'll have thatscreenshotted and on one screen.
I love I love using theUniversity of California Davis
Google Earth extension, and Ihave that on one screen, and so
I'm looking at like soil series,landscape position, and then
I'm in here, you know, doinglike the the the zone vectorized
(23:55):
thing, and I'm looking at thosepolygons and I'm hitting
control or shift or what orshift and click, click, click,
click, click, you know, andhighlighting stuff and going,
yep, these are low landscapepositions.
I do know that these are youknow, like my sacrificial areas
or whatever, I'm gonna runhigher rates here.
And I've gone through and I gomod those up to higher rates
because I'm like, I don't wantto run that lower rate in those
(24:17):
areas, and so yeah, I'm con I'mconstantly changing those
things, and there's like noalgorithm to do that.
That's just kind of like thethe agronomist's final touch,
you know, right?
Sarah (24:28):
And it's your knowledge based on how you've like scouted
those fields and what you know.
Kyle Okke (24:33):
Yeah, and I try to those are hard things to to
teach.
You just uh that's yourintuition, and everyone with
their own intimate fieldknowledge of those fields are
the only ones that are gonna beable to do that is you go
through, like, oh yeah, thatmap.
I don't like that low rate overthere.
So I'm gonna just go throughhere and go highlight these
sections, and I'm gonna gore-mod this area, and I'm gonna
(24:55):
go smooth this out again, andI'm gonna reproject it.
And okay, now this looks good.
Like, oh, too many jagged edgeson this isn't gonna work for a
sprayer.
You've got to remember there'slike 120 feet at a time.
So you keep adjusting, and andyou have to see what these as
applied maps look like to seehow they're capturing it,
because that's the that's a bigeye-opener to this whole thing.
Sarah (25:17):
Good.
I you know, so often I think weforget to take a look at that
as applied data, and especiallyas we start moving into these
liquid sprayers, that's probablya really important key to
reflect upon so we know how tomake these prescriptions even
better going forward.
So, what were what was the eyeopener?
Like, what surprised you, Kyle?
Jodi (25:36):
And maybe you're just about to say that.
Kyle Okke (25:37):
Uh well, so uh the this goes this general concept
or this general idea goes farbeyond just the spraying.
But seeing what your as appliedmaps look like on a sprayer, on
a on a drill, on a liquidapplicator, whatever, seeing the
actual as applied map is reallyhelpful in in helping them, uh,
(26:00):
you know, the operator.
So if that's the hired person,if that's a custom applicator,
if that's the farmer that'srunning their own equipment, you
you start to see like the tailsin and out of like zones.
Because those tails show up inthe as applied maps.
Sarah (26:17):
Absolutely.
Kyle Okke (26:18):
And and so, you know, you look at those things and
you're like, hey, you got to setyour look ahead times
differently.
Or, you know, you you start tolook at how those as applied
maps go in and out of yourzones, and you're like looking
at this one poor zone, andyou're like, oh, there's only
like three swaths that gothrough this.
You're like, okay, that makesme think differently about this.
(26:41):
Or, you know, you're like, Ithought that zone is bigger than
that.
It was like only one littletiny grid, you know, one one
swath width that hit that.
So you're like, okay, I gottathink about this a little
differently.
And then you can make likesmall micro adjustments on on
well basically, you know, likethe cool thing about ADMS is you
can get so granular on stuffand you're like, wow, this is
(27:03):
such an awesome looking map.
But you still have to go backto the it's still the roller
painter versus the fine brushstrokes, you know, on on some on
some of the equipment.
You know, and and so then youhave you just you and that's
okay.
That's because you're stillachieving what you need to
(27:26):
achieve.
Sarah (27:27):
And and sometimes you have to think about it
differently to get it done withthat versus something else.
Kyle Okke (27:34):
Yeah, so there's there's so much more little
nuance in this that you know,like I've I've never I've never
actually sat and explained thisto the farmers I work with.
We just got like a just reallyawesome trust level, and they're
like, you'll make it work, youknow.
And and and so they probablydon't even realize the amount of
like backside that I won't payattention to the man behind the
(27:57):
curtain.
Yeah.
So it's like I don't I don'ttry to take extra credit for
that kind of stuff.
I'm just like it is what it is,you know.
It's like my my thing is itdrives me nuts to see injured
stuff as much as they they seeit.
So it's like, let's avoid this.
Jodi (28:12):
Um yeah, because thinking about it, like data
collection-wise, like therethere isn't anything that's
gonna tell us where these spotsare, right?
Because Kyle, you're we talkedabout these levels of what
you're varying for.
It's both injury prevention andalso increasing weed control.
Like, what kind of data couldyou collect from the soil?
(28:33):
There's not just one thing orone piece of data that could get
you a direct answer as to howto change that rate.
There's no sort of sensor.
And like, as I think about it,having some knowledge in weed
science and soils, like there'snot an easy data point that can
(28:53):
get you that answer.
You need that intimateknowledge and experience to put
that map together.
Kyle Okke (29:00):
And or it takes a lot of time and money to get the
parameters because I was gonnasay uh uh but you could have uh
through the uh through thecompany Varus, you have their EC
uh sensors, and there's one ofthem in particular, a couple of
them that have uh a pH probe andso it gives you again a
(29:26):
relative pH in the field, butthat's a very time-consuming
process, it's not like acontinuous meter.
You have to stop, the probe hasto go into the ground, it has
to sit until the pH stabilizeson the probe, and then when it
comes back out, it has to getsprayed and cleaned off.
And so it's it's an expensivepiece of machinery, and it's
(29:48):
very time consuming.
And there's a lot of thingsthat can go wrong when you're
you're you're be bopping aroundin a field for well, there's
another consultant here, uh, bythe name Josh Hammond that owns
one of those that that is doingthat very thing by getting EC
maps and ph maps because he hasclients of his that are doing
(30:09):
variable variable rate lineapplications for this.
And he's discovered that the pHthing is a very granular, like
a very fine change in place toplace, but it's the amount of
time it takes to make those kindof maps, all of a sudden, is
that uh you wouldn'tspecifically be making that kind
(30:33):
of map just for precisionapplied residual herbicide.
Sarah (30:38):
Yes.
Kyle Okke (30:39):
It's a nice byproduct if you're going to be doing
Lyme applications, you know,because that's going to be the
driving force to spending themoney to have someone go through
that kind of labor with thatkind of tool.
Jodi (30:50):
But you But think multiple data layers.
There's just not just onenumber that indicates it.
Kyle Okke (30:57):
Oh, I was gonna say in a perfect world, you could
come up with an algorithm or aor a script and and do this
where you have a pH layer, youhave an organic matter layer,
you have um a soil texture classlayer, you would have to have
all of those, and and you couldrun a script based off of those
(31:17):
things.
But then still you couldn't addyour own personal intimate
knowledge of the field in thereand just go like, you know what?
Because of the pH being so highin these areas, it kicked out
the high rate.
And and the algo says, Nope,you're you're maxed out at this
(31:37):
rate in this like poor saltarea.
But as the ground is goes, I'msacrificing the crap in that
area, and I'm gonna just I'mjust gonna punch that thing down
to the ground.
I don't care if the crap goeswith it too.
You know, just I'm puttingextra herbicide in there.
Sarah (31:52):
But with that algorithm, you are going exactly the same
direction as I was thinkingright there.
So that was kind of fun.
But uh with that algorithm,rather than actually making the
the rate map from that, um, fromthose data layers, you could
actually make another zone map,a zone map that's particular for
residual herbicide application.
(32:14):
And then you could be assigningyour rates for different
residual herbicides based onthat for different crops.
And and you could still haveall the opportunity of doing all
of the the modding andeverything else that you would
want to do to your prescription.
That's fun right there.
I like this.
Kyle Okke (32:34):
So there's tons of, yeah.
So so this whole topic, there'slike we could just keep going
and going and going.
And so this isn't a simpletopic.
This has a lot of nuances andthere's a lot of application
potential.
Sarah (32:47):
With that, I really think that Kyle actually just put the
nail in the coffin on thisconversation, one that could
actually go on and on forever.
This has been just such a blastvisiting with you, Kyle, about
this whole concept of residualherbicides from a variable rate
standpoint.
So thank you so much for yourtime on all three of these
(33:09):
episodes.
Again, if you didn't get achance to catch the first two, I
recommend going back andcatching uh the first two
episodes with Kyle Oki onresidual herbicides here.
And um thank you so much, Kyle.
Kyle Okke (33:22):
Yeah, thank you both for having me on.
Sarah (33:25):
Thank you, Kyle, for the insight.
With that, at GK Technology, wehave a map and an app for that.
And now it's time for Ag Geek Speak with GK Technology's,
Sarah and Jodi.
Theme Song (00:10):
In the fields again.
I just can't wait to get in thefields again.
The life I love is writtenproduct for my friend.
And I can't wait to get in thefields again.
No, I can't wait to get in thefields again.
Sarah (00:31):
Welcome back to Ag Geek Speak.
We were having so much funtalking with Kyle Okke for the
previous two episodes that wethought we'd bring him back for
a third.
Third times a charm.
Truth be known, we were havingsuch a great uh conversation
about variable rate pesticidesin particular, herbicides, that
(00:53):
we thought we would um continuethe conversation.
In the previous two episodes,episode one of this series, we
talked about the concept of, youknow, just what this variable
rate residual herbicide conceptis.
The second episode, we talk alot about the equipment and the
actual sprayer technology that'sneeded in order to make this
(01:16):
happen.
But we've concluded the secondconversation.
And here we make maps at GKTechnology, and we haven't even
talked about mapping.
So let's get back into itagain, Kyle.
And um, first of all, help usunderstand just roughly like
when you start to think abouteven putting together a map,
(01:39):
where do you even where do youeven start with trying to figure
out the data that you need tofigure out how to variable rate
this this?
Kyle Okke (01:48):
So I guess where I absolutely started on the on the
the coarsest level withoutgetting into the fine details,
is I I am still just utilizingthe zone productivity maps that
I soil sample off of.
Sarah (02:06):
Okay.
Kyle Okke (02:06):
So I I I am in a lot of cases using that very map
still.
And and especially wheneverything kind of lines up
nice, like I was saying offline.
I said the my favorite partabout using ADMS is that the
user has full control over whatyou're doing.
And so there's nothing, uh notyet, anyways, that a fully
(02:29):
automated zone making systemthat is gonna get it right.
It takes intimate knowledge ofthe person doing the mapping of
the field to really uh and thattakes collaboration with the
person that farms in some cases,or and in many cases, I should
say, uh, and then or or you'rethe agronomist that's out
(02:50):
four-wheeling in that field allsummer, and you see how crops
produce on there, and you go,well, that bad spot is bad
because of this reason, and thatbad spot over there is bad
because of this reason.
We we focus a lot on the poorareas, which happen to be the
driving force behind makingthese variable rate residual
maps.
Sarah (03:08):
Okay.
Kyle Okke (03:09):
And so, yeah, so it so you see a poor area because
maybe it has a thin clay pan sixinches under the ground and it
accumulates a lot of solublesalts.
And no matter what, that areaprobably isn't gonna grow field
peas very well.
It probably isn't gonna growsunflowers or some of these
other things really well.
(03:29):
I personally want to put moreproduct down in those areas
because that's the respawn spotfor for uh kosher as is the big
driver there.
And so I'm okay with it being asacrificial to the crop area if
I can try to hammer it harderwith a residual herbicide in
that area.
Sarah (03:49):
And reduce the overall seed bank uh for the entire
field is kind of your thoughtprocess.
The weed seed bank.
Sorry.
Okay.
Kyle Okke (03:56):
I I actually have other ideas around those areas,
but I'm not gonna go there yet.
Um, but but then, anyways, youknow, so you have you have pore
because of like the traditionalwhere we're reducing the rate
because it's coarse soils andhigh organic or uh coarse soils,
low organic matter, high pH.
Um, those areas and and thoseare uncovered.
(04:18):
Yeah, once you make a reallyawesome zone map, because you're
using ADMS, you're using yourpersonal knowledge of the field,
you're parsing out and you'redoing the mod zone thing.
So you're you're you're all ofa sudden going from your
standard, you know, five zonemap or three zone map, let's
call it, but I like five zones,and now you're modding things
(04:39):
and you're going, well, thispoor area is because of this
reason, this poor area isbecause of this reason.
Totally different landscapeposition.
So all of a sudden you haveyour five-zone map and it turns
into a six or seven or eightzone map.
Sarah (04:50):
Yep.
Kyle Okke (04:50):
Because of because of those things.
And once you have thoseparameters separated out, and
now you're and now if thoseextra zones are big enough,
sometimes they're small.
You're like, oh yeah, well,that's that's white.
The ground is and all it doesis grow kosher.
You're like, I don't reallyneed to know much more about
that.
I don't need to soil sample itto tell you that it's got a
thousand parts per millionsodium, and the pH is like nine,
(05:14):
you know, things like that.
But then you have, but thenyou'll get these bigger areas,
and you're like, well, no, cropgrows in them.
And so then then you start, butonce you have them separated,
all of a sudden the results makea lot more sense when you get
them.
And then and then that's thepower of that.
So that's the base map, Iguess, that I've always used for
doing the variable rateresidual applications because
(05:36):
you know, went through the duediligence through your guys'
help initially teaching me, youknow, what what to you know how
to mod those things out, and andand then all of a sudden the
results make sense.
And then so that's that'sreally the majority of the map I
use is my base map from soilsampling.
Sarah (05:53):
But one of the things that I have enjoyed about when
you're soil sampling in the fallof the year on your social
media accounts where people canfollow you, I I love it when you
go out and you soil samplethese different zones and you
are showing just even thedifferent colors of the soil in
the buckets, yeah.
Huge differences.
(06:15):
And then when you put that withthe soil sample results beside
that, uh it's just amazing.
So, can you in some of thesefields that you manage, can you
help us understand the diversityof soil parameters that would
affect the activity of aresidual herbicide?
Like what's the variabilitythat you're that you're finding
(06:36):
across some of these fields thatyou're managing?
Kyle Okke (06:39):
So the color really stands out.
The color of the color is thetail.
You you can you can go fromlike this nice, really dark
looking soil to like almost avery light tan or white in some
cases, and and the colordifference is actually mostly
organic matter.
(06:59):
That's that's the bigdifference there.
And so you can generally tellhigh versus low organic matter,
although the soil, the soil testtells you exactly how much
organic matter.
It's way better at telling youthe true organic matter in those
areas because I've had thesehuge color differences.
(07:20):
I'm like, wow, this must belike a three or four point
organic matter differencebecause I do have that big of a
spread sometimes in fields.
But I've had those huge colordifferences and still only be
like a point and a half oforganic matter change.
Jodi (07:36):
That's a really good observation, right?
Because like one thing too, youmentioned about your high spots
in your fields, like yourhilltops, those tend to have a
higher calcium carbonate levelor higher pH, which means
there's likely a lot morecalcium carbonate.
Kyle Okke (07:50):
It's totally what it is, yeah.
Jodi (07:52):
It it's it's white, like it imparts a whiteness to the
soil.
You can see that here in thevalley, um, places with high
calcium carbonate.
You can see that whiteness inthe soil.
So yeah, like you were saying,organic matter is uh
contributing to the color, butthere's other things too that
can be a part of that that arecontributing to it.
Kyle Okke (08:11):
Definitely other parameters that are affecting
that.
But but yeah, it's like seemslike organic matter is the big
one, right?
But yeah, the calciumcarbonate.
So so there's things like Idon't know, gives you your
agronomous spidey sense on thatone.
You're yeah, you're looking atthat, you're like, oh, okay,
yep.
You can really see thedifference here, and and yeah,
(08:31):
then when you see that likereally light color, you're like,
hmm, that must have morecalcium carbonate in there.
Because there's some that arejust plain red, you know, and
you get that too, and that'smaybe more like parent material
than it is anything.
Sarah (08:45):
So, and that's interesting because in your neck
of the woods, not only do youapparently have these areas
where you've got accumulationsof calcium carbonate, which for
the world out there that wantsthe layman's term, that's lime.
Okay.
So if you have a low soil pH,what do you do?
You apply lime.
So that's just areas ofaccumulated lime, high pH, but
(09:06):
then you also deal with a lot oflow pH areas out there.
So it's interesting to me tothink about this uh residual
herbicide concept from um even asoil pH parameter.
So what um what what are someof the soil pH differences that
you can find out there across uhsome of some of some of your
(09:28):
fields?
Kyle Okke (09:28):
Well, if you like here here's the highest and
here's the lowest that I'veseen.
So the highest I've seen intothe high eights, um, like 8.7, I
think, is maybe some of thehighest I've seen.
Jodi (09:41):
Oofta.
Kyle Okke (09:42):
Yeah, oofta meta.
Yeah, pretty high.
Jodi (09:44):
Yeah.
Kyle Okke (09:45):
On the low end.
Uh I've I've been in the fourson on the low end.
Now that's extreme.
Like the only time I ever endedup with fours in soil sampling
is diagnostic soil sampling.
And so that's those are theplaces I've done that where I
had the combination ofsomething's not right in this
(10:08):
field, and the these patches arelike dead.
They came up, but they're dead.
And it's like, what's going onhere?
This year we did some again atuh Durham, which is susceptible
to acidic pH.
Or it's more, I would, it's notas susceptible to acidic pH,
it's susceptible to aluminumtoxicity more so or more
(10:29):
sensitive than hard red springwheat to absolutely low pH
problems then.
Yeah, to to the problemsassociated with low pH.
There we go.
And and diagnostically soilsampling, very specifically,
like the spot on the spot.
Yeah, we've got some four downto like the low fours.
Oh and I've heard of some inthe high threes.
(10:50):
I've heard in those areas.
Yeah.
Jodi (10:52):
And those diagnostic tests, was that zero to three or
zero to six that you weregetting those low fours?
Kyle Okke (10:57):
I I haven't uh I haven't diagnostid zero done
zero to threes.
It's all been zero to six.
Jodi (11:03):
So even at a zero to six, you're getting to low fours.
Kyle Okke (11:06):
Yeah, I guess that's the barometer I put myself on
stuff when I'm like, hey, I'm inthe low fours on a zero to six.
I I could give two craps aboutthe zero to three because most
of the time you'll get, I mean,you'll see where it's lower pH
in there because that'sstratified.
But when you're now taking yourentire acre furrow slice and
you're seeing that low, you'relike, we got a problem.
Jodi (11:28):
Yep.
Kyle Okke (11:28):
Tillage can't fix that problem.
Jodi (11:30):
No.
Kyle Okke (11:31):
Flipping flipping the soil over isn't gonna do it.
You know, this this is uh thatthat's called your base material
doesn't even have enoughcalcium carbonate in it to to
overcome this.
You gotta add it.
You know, so that's that'sdefinitely so so diagnostically
sampling, but I I would say likeon a normal, like when you look
(11:54):
at the traditional precisionsoil sampling that I've been
doing, I do see in the low fivesquite often.
Jodi (12:03):
Which is indicative that there are spots that are below
five throughout those areas thatabsolutely and and thinking
about Sarah's question and andabout like how you're putting
these maps together and howyou're choosing rates, like I'm
guessing it's probably afield-by-field basis of like
(12:24):
Yeah, you're in a field.
What do you look at first?
Like, do you say, I know I needto reduce the rate for the
hilltops to focus on cropsafety?
Or I suppose you what's yourthought process?
Where do you even start to makethe decision on how you're
gonna vary things?
Kyle Okke (12:40):
So the only farms that I've been doing this with
on the variable rate is one,they have to have the sensitive
crop that we've have the historyof going what we've been doing
at flat rates is detrimental tothe sensitive areas.
So it starts there and then italso kind of goes like do we
(13:03):
have a manageable weedpopulation?
Because if we're gonna reducethe rate, are we gonna be okay
doing that?
You know, like even if you haveperfectly clean, clean fields,
it doesn't mean that you don'twant to use uh residual
herbicide at all, right?
Especially in these specialtycrops, because we do not have a
post-emergent option that's veryeffective.
(13:25):
The best option is thepre-emergent option.
So even with clean fields, westill want to apply something to
the field so we have a layer ofprotection.
So we're we're gonna be puttingsomething no matter what.
But I've got some farms thatI'm like our kosher pressure is
far too great.
Um, sometimes I've just likesaid, no, you're not planting
(13:48):
sunflowers, not in this field.
We're you know, so I I've I'veI've legitimately had those
conversations.
And we and we joke about that.
I go, you know, and I I likeone of the guys was the first
year I worked with them, and andI said, I'm not gonna rock the
boat, I'm more here to like helpyou along, make sure there's no
disasters, but I don't wannaI'm not gonna change a lot of
(14:09):
what you do.
I want to know how you operatefirst.
And I remember seeing one ofthe first fields and it was
slated to go to to Sunflowers,and I'm like, nope, this isn't
happening.
Jodi (14:19):
Nope.
Kyle Okke (14:24):
I was like, not happening.
Yeah.
Jodi (14:28):
So so it sounds like uh in general, right?
Like you're going in with thepurpose of okay, are we are we
trying to reduce cropsensitivity here?
Like that's that's probably themain goal.
Kyle Okke (14:40):
And then that's the that's the big driver, and then
as time's gone, and and so thistakes field history.
So this this is you know forthe field, the farms I consult
for.
And it's like I was saying atthe you know, in the previous uh
session is that we have theseperpetual problem areas, and and
(15:02):
that's where now we're lookingharder, going, okay, we can
identify these perpetual problemareas, know that with the rest
of the parameters we have inthose areas, we could run a
stronger rate without withoutinjuring our crop because we
have the correct parameters.
Now, now we're looking at, youknow, how do we layer on top of
(15:23):
this or how do we, you know,adjust what we're doing instead
of just just being a damagemitigation to the crop, but
actually being effective or moreeffective on our weed control
basis by running stronger ratesof residual where needed.
Jodi (15:40):
I also like you've oh go ahead, Sarah.
Sarah (15:43):
I I also want to throw in that this can help us manage
our rotation for next year too.
There's so often where wherewe're we're dealing with
especially with specialty cropswhere there's not a lot of
herbicide options, you know, wewant to make sure that we are
managing the weeds in the cropthe year of because we know
we're gonna be raising more ofthese specialty crops going
(16:04):
forward.
And that rotational restrictionum going to future crops can
sometimes be a challenge.
So, you know, let's say you'vegot a soybean acre out there
with self-entrazone and you wantto go to, you know, some other
crop out there where there'srotational restrictions.
Hope, you know, even if you'reapplying an average rate across
(16:26):
a field that is by the label, ifyou've got these variable areas
within a field, that rotationcan really get affected in
spots.
You can see the effect the thenext year.
So you know, yeah, we have tomake sure that we're maximizing
the weed control in these areas.
We need to make sure that we'reminimizing the injury in the
(16:48):
year of, and we also need tomake sure we've got that
rotational restriction that'sactually gonna work um the
following year, too.
Jodi (16:56):
And it sounds like Kyle, like right now you kind of have
like a basic level, like levelone, let's just mitigate damage.
But then, like beyond that,like you said, like wouldn't you
have a feel for the crophistory and how things respond?
Like level two is like, okay,destroy spawn sites.
Can we increase the rates alittle bit and make make the
herbicide more effective?
And then level three might beokay.
(17:16):
We can even push some ratesfurther in areas that have
different pH levels that we wecan see, or uh what are some
other things?
Are there anything else thatyou consider to like increasing
your rate?
Kyle Okke (17:27):
Um, so so base level, like level one kind of style is
is using that very well thoughtout zone map that has the mod
areas so that you have correctlyparsed out, you know, zones
that that are representative ofthe actual parameters that are
making them the poor areas.
(17:47):
Okay, so so then so then youhave as accurate as possible,
which that's like the big leapinto it.
But then there's there there'sactually pretty decent equipment
out there, and so one of themis I have the fortune to work
with two farms right now, andthey have these smart firmers
(18:08):
from Precision Planting on theirplanters, and that has an
organic matter screen on it, andso it makes this really nice
organic matter map, and so it'snot it's it's relative organic
matter, but it it it's prettyclose.
So it so if you take theorganic matter map, which it
(18:30):
makes this really awesomegranular organic matter map with
a with a real fine detail ofwhere it's high and low, and it
gives you kind of a generalpercentage organic matter, but
it's relative, you know, it'snot calibrated, it's just a
relative organic matter.
So if you take your knowledgeof okay, soil sample says this
(18:51):
on each zone, and now I have myorganic matter map from my smart
firm or planter, it's supercool data.
You you go you immediately seelike where the lowest stuff is,
you're like, that's exactlywhere the injury is happening
the worst.
Sarah (19:05):
Are you kind of like cross-calibrating it then back
to your your soil sample resultsthat you actually get from from
soil sampling, and then you cansee the variability from the
smart firm or map?
Kyle Okke (19:17):
So so I haven't been cross-calibrating necessarily
because I I think still in theend, like unless you have nozzle
by nozzle control on uh yoursprayer, you can't get super
granular with your application.
You're still applying acrossyour whole boom for the most
part, and so you still gottaremember, like where we have
(19:40):
this like super fine resolutionkind of data with like yeah, you
know, so so we can paint thisdata with like these really fine
brush strokes, but we're likeusing a roller painter for your
wall for the application.
Jodi (19:58):
You know, we're going to the Bob Ross episode.
We talked about that back inseason one of Ag Geek Speed.
Sarah (20:04):
Happy Trees, happy trees.
Kyle Okke (20:07):
Yeah, yeah.
We have we have the Bob Ross ofof map quality, but your
sprayer is more like yourcommercial painter for a house.
You know, like like sure, youcan you you can do so much, but
you can't, but that commercialpainter isn't gonna be able to
(20:28):
do what Bob Ross does.
So you have to keep that inmind.
So so that's back to like wherethose layers of information are
extremely helpful.
And for me, it's helping makethe decision, like there might
be certain like areas that I modthat I go, I do actually want
to shut off self-entrazone on acouple of those because it's
(20:51):
it's so low in organic matter,like it's it's finding the
bullseye.
And so then then you cancross-reference and go, hey,
yep, this area is definitely bigenough.
This this'll actually make afew cells for the rate
controller to actually catchwhere it could shut it off.
Sarah (21:08):
So when you have so you primarily use zones, your
productivity zones, and youassign your your carrier rate to
the zone, and so your variablerating, your carrier rate, and
you know what your activeingredient rates are gonna be
going into that carrier rate.
Um once you have thatprescription built, have you
(21:30):
ever modded or changed areaswithin the prescription itself
to do something maybe a littlebit different or enhance, you
know, the the prescriptionthat's coming out of the those
um those zone assigned rates?
Kyle Okke (21:46):
Yeah, yeah, there's definitely modding the whole way
through.
Like I said, it it like it'skind of that's the fun part
about ADMS is that you can getas very detail specific as you
want and all that.
You know, so uh the the big oneis instead of having like these
nice i uh feathered rates, youyou kind of um I've been going
(22:08):
by like single gallon breaks.
So so then the zones go by thethe changes are single gallons
at a time.
And depending on the the ratecontroller, it seems like uh
like the the John Deere and theRaven stuff, I've just gone
(22:28):
single gallon rates that'shandled it flawlessly, no
issues.
Um like a Pro 700 seems likeand the Trimble systems seem
like they're just any any wayyou can make it more simple, the
better it performs, and thenthen instead of doing like you
(22:49):
know, I cut it in half evenmore, so then it's gone to just
like like if we're gonna go fromfive to ten gallons, I do a
five, a seven and a half, and aten instead of like a five, six,
seven, eight, nine, ten kind ofthing.
And and do the rate changeslike that.
So the rate controllers I'veplayed with a little bit by you
(23:10):
know changing my my parameterswithin each zone.
Uh that way.
I also like to do the mod areathing and and I and and I'm c so
this is like where you knowlike all of us that spent a lot
of time on ADMS have multiplescreens.
Yep.
And so so I'll have a screen ofthe lidar overlay with the zone
(23:32):
map, and and I'll have thatscreenshotted and on one screen.
I love I love using theUniversity of California Davis
Google Earth extension, and Ihave that on one screen, and so
I'm looking at like soil series,landscape position, and then
I'm in here, you know, doinglike the the the zone vectorized
(23:55):
thing, and I'm looking at thosepolygons and I'm hitting
control or shift or what orshift and click, click, click,
click, click, you know, andhighlighting stuff and going,
yep, these are low landscapepositions.
I do know that these are youknow, like my sacrificial areas
or whatever, I'm gonna runhigher rates here.
And I've gone through and I gomod those up to higher rates
because I'm like, I don't wantto run that lower rate in those
(24:17):
areas, and so yeah, I'm con I'mconstantly changing those
things, and there's like noalgorithm to do that.
That's just kind of like thethe agronomist's final touch,
you know, right?
Sarah (24:28):
And it's your knowledge based on how you've like scouted
those fields and what you know.
Kyle Okke (24:33):
Yeah, and I try to those are hard things to to
teach.
You just uh that's yourintuition, and everyone with
their own intimate fieldknowledge of those fields are
the only ones that are gonna beable to do that is you go
through, like, oh yeah, thatmap.
I don't like that low rate overthere.
So I'm gonna just go throughhere and go highlight these
sections, and I'm gonna gore-mod this area, and I'm gonna
(24:55):
go smooth this out again, andI'm gonna reproject it.
And okay, now this looks good.
Like, oh, too many jagged edgeson this isn't gonna work for a
sprayer.
You've got to remember there'slike 120 feet at a time.
So you keep adjusting, and andyou have to see what these as
applied maps look like to seehow they're capturing it,
because that's the that's a bigeye-opener to this whole thing.
Sarah (25:17):
Good.
I you know, so often I think weforget to take a look at that
as applied data, and especiallyas we start moving into these
liquid sprayers, that's probablya really important key to
reflect upon so we know how tomake these prescriptions even
better going forward.
So, what were what was the eyeopener?
Like, what surprised you, Kyle?
Jodi (25:36):
And maybe you're just about to say that.
Kyle Okke (25:37):
Uh well, so uh the this goes this general concept
or this general idea goes farbeyond just the spraying.
But seeing what your as appliedmaps look like on a sprayer, on
a on a drill, on a liquidapplicator, whatever, seeing the
actual as applied map is reallyhelpful in in helping them, uh,
(26:00):
you know, the operator.
So if that's the hired person,if that's a custom applicator,
if that's the farmer that'srunning their own equipment, you
you start to see like the tailsin and out of like zones.
Because those tails show up inthe as applied maps.
Sarah (26:17):
Absolutely.
Kyle Okke (26:18):
And and so, you know, you look at those things and
you're like, hey, you got to setyour look ahead times
differently.
Or, you know, you you start tolook at how those as applied
maps go in and out of yourzones, and you're like looking
at this one poor zone, andyou're like, oh, there's only
like three swaths that gothrough this.
You're like, okay, that makesme think differently about this.
(26:41):
Or, you know, you're like, Ithought that zone is bigger than
that.
It was like only one littletiny grid, you know, one one
swath width that hit that.
So you're like, okay, I gottathink about this a little
differently.
And then you can make likesmall micro adjustments on on
well basically, you know, likethe cool thing about ADMS is you
can get so granular on stuffand you're like, wow, this is
(27:03):
such an awesome looking map.
But you still have to go backto the it's still the roller
painter versus the fine brushstrokes, you know, on on some on
some of the equipment.
You know, and and so then youhave you just you and that's
okay.
That's because you're stillachieving what you need to
(27:26):
achieve.
Sarah (27:27):
And and sometimes you have to think about it
differently to get it done withthat versus something else.
Kyle Okke (27:34):
Yeah, so there's there's so much more little
nuance in this that you know,like I've I've never I've never
actually sat and explained thisto the farmers I work with.
We just got like a just reallyawesome trust level, and they're
like, you'll make it work, youknow.
And and and so they probablydon't even realize the amount of
like backside that I won't payattention to the man behind the
(27:57):
curtain.
Yeah.
So it's like I don't I don'ttry to take extra credit for
that kind of stuff.
I'm just like it is what it is,you know.
It's like my my thing is itdrives me nuts to see injured
stuff as much as they they seeit.
So it's like, let's avoid this.
Jodi (28:12):
Um yeah, because thinking about it, like data
collection-wise, like therethere isn't anything that's
gonna tell us where these spotsare, right?
Because Kyle, you're we talkedabout these levels of what
you're varying for.
It's both injury prevention andalso increasing weed control.
Like, what kind of data couldyou collect from the soil?
(28:33):
There's not just one thing orone piece of data that could get
you a direct answer as to howto change that rate.
There's no sort of sensor.
And like, as I think about it,having some knowledge in weed
science and soils, like there'snot an easy data point that can
(28:53):
get you that answer.
You need that intimateknowledge and experience to put
that map together.
Kyle Okke (29:00):
And or it takes a lot of time and money to get the
parameters because I was gonnasay uh uh but you could have uh
through the uh through thecompany Varus, you have their EC
uh sensors, and there's one ofthem in particular, a couple of
them that have uh a pH probe andso it gives you again a
(29:26):
relative pH in the field, butthat's a very time-consuming
process, it's not like acontinuous meter.
You have to stop, the probe hasto go into the ground, it has
to sit until the pH stabilizeson the probe, and then when it
comes back out, it has to getsprayed and cleaned off.
And so it's it's an expensivepiece of machinery, and it's
(29:48):
very time consuming.
And there's a lot of thingsthat can go wrong when you're
you're you're be bopping aroundin a field for well, there's
another consultant here, uh, bythe name Josh Hammond that owns
one of those that that is doingthat very thing by getting EC
maps and ph maps because he hasclients of his that are doing
(30:09):
variable variable rate lineapplications for this.
And he's discovered that the pHthing is a very granular, like
a very fine change in place toplace, but it's the amount of
time it takes to make those kindof maps, all of a sudden, is
that uh you wouldn'tspecifically be making that kind
(30:33):
of map just for precisionapplied residual herbicide.
Sarah (30:38):
Yes.
Kyle Okke (30:39):
It's a nice byproduct if you're going to be doing
Lyme applications, you know,because that's going to be the
driving force to spending themoney to have someone go through
that kind of labor with thatkind of tool.
Jodi (30:50):
But you But think multiple data layers.
There's just not just onenumber that indicates it.
Kyle Okke (30:57):
Oh, I was gonna say in a perfect world, you could
come up with an algorithm or aor a script and and do this
where you have a pH layer, youhave an organic matter layer,
you have um a soil texture classlayer, you would have to have
all of those, and and you couldrun a script based off of those
(31:17):
things.
But then still you couldn't addyour own personal intimate
knowledge of the field in thereand just go like, you know what?
Because of the pH being so highin these areas, it kicked out
the high rate.
And and the algo says, Nope,you're you're maxed out at this
(31:37):
rate in this like poor saltarea.
But as the ground is goes, I'msacrificing the crap in that
area, and I'm gonna just I'mjust gonna punch that thing down
to the ground.
I don't care if the crap goeswith it too.
You know, just I'm puttingextra herbicide in there.
Sarah (31:52):
But with that algorithm, you are going exactly the same
direction as I was thinkingright there.
So that was kind of fun.
But uh with that algorithm,rather than actually making the
the rate map from that, um, fromthose data layers, you could
actually make another zone map,a zone map that's particular for
residual herbicide application.
(32:14):
And then you could be assigningyour rates for different
residual herbicides based onthat for different crops.
And and you could still haveall the opportunity of doing all
of the the modding andeverything else that you would
want to do to your prescription.
That's fun right there.
I like this.
Kyle Okke (32:34):
So there's tons of, yeah.
So so this whole topic, there'slike we could just keep going
and going and going.
And so this isn't a simpletopic.
This has a lot of nuances andthere's a lot of application
potential.
Sarah (32:47):
With that, I really think that Kyle actually just put the
nail in the coffin on thisconversation, one that could
actually go on and on forever.
This has been just such a blastvisiting with you, Kyle, about
this whole concept of residualherbicides from a variable rate
standpoint.
So thank you so much for yourtime on all three of these
(33:09):
episodes.
Again, if you didn't get achance to catch the first two, I
recommend going back andcatching uh the first two
episodes with Kyle Oki onresidual herbicides here.
And um thank you so much, Kyle.
Kyle Okke (33:22):
Yeah, thank you both for having me on.
Sarah (33:25):
Thank you, Kyle, for the insight.
With that, at GK Technology, wehave a map and an app for that.
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