The Choice for Planet B is in Our Hands w/ Juan de Dalmau #46

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello, everybody.
This is David Goldsmith, and welcome to the age of infinite.
Throughout history, humans have made significant transformational changes, which in turn have led to the renaming of periods into ages.
You've personally lived you personally have just experienced the information age and what a ride it's been.
Now consider that you might now, right now, be living through another transitional period into a new age, the age of infinite.

(00:29):
An age that is not defined by scarcity and abundance, but by a redefined lifestyle consisting of infinite possibilities and resources, which will be made possible through a new construct where the moon and earth, or as we call it, Mearth, will create a new ecosystem, an economic system to take us in to an infinite future.
The ingredients for an amazing sci fi story that has come to life in your lifetime.

(00:55):
The podcast is brought to you by the Project Moon Hut Foundation, where we look to establish a box with a roof and a door on the moon, a moon hut, we were named by NASA, through the accelerated development of an Earth and space based ecosystem.
Then to use the endeavors, the paradigm shifting thinking, and the innovations and turn them back on earth to improve how we live on earth for all species.

(01:16):
Today, we're going to be exploring another fantastic topic.
The choice for planet b is in our hands.
With us is Juan Dedel Dedelmao, who is, well hi.
How are you, Juan?
Hello, David.
Good to hear you, and excellent pronunciation.

(01:39):
So we we actually I worked on making sure or we worked on making sure that I said his name properly.
And Juan is is going to be in the next week.
He's gonna be ending his term as the president of the International Space University out of Strasbourg in France.
He's, studied mechanical engineering and business administration, and while the university's taught interdisciplinary studies.

(02:04):
I'm adding one point right now, and we haven't had it in the other interviews only because in the past month, 3 people made comments about the interviews, which surprised me.
So that you know, this is the process that we have to to create a podcast.
We find a guest.
We've turned down over 300 people over the years that I've done podcasting in this, series.

(02:26):
We've had guests that just didn't work out.
We then work on together.
The 2 of us create a title for the program, and that could take up to 2 hours to create just the title.
I don't know what we're going to be talking about.
I personally don't know.
I have never seen the outline that Juwan is going to be giving us today.

(02:49):
I've done no research, no homework.
As a matter of fact, I even show Juwan that I have a piece and paper in front of me that's completely blank except for the title and his name on it.
And during a typical program, I take anywhere from 10 to 20 pages of notes.
So with that said, Juwan, do you have an outline for us?

(03:11):
Yes, David.
Okay.
I like, I like outlines because, they help us organize our ideas and our conversation.
And I think the best outline is, the title that you just gave to our chat today.
I like when you said that we are going to discuss the choice for planet b is in our hands.

(03:36):
So here is my outline.
Just look at the words we are using in this title, the choice.
That means that, we will talk about how to make choices and who makes them and how to make the right choices.
So we will be talking about decision making.

(03:57):
Yep.
Then the title goes on and says the choice for planet b.
So I would like to talk about planets a, b, and c and others.
And then third part of the title is the choice for planet b is in our hands.

(04:19):
So what this is telling us is that we want to discuss what to do with our hands.
Once we have made the choice, how do we make it happen?
So I like personally decision making Mhmm.
But then I like building and making those decisions a reality.

(04:41):
So that's it.
That's the outline, David.
If you like
That works that works for me.
It it follows exactly the title, so I will I won't get too lost on this.
So, Lynn, let's start with, number 1, the the choices, how, who, when decisions decision making.
Where where are we going with this?

(05:02):
I think we can go very far, and, I like to share my own experiences and and my own learnings in life.
And, since you are also an experienced person in life, even if you're a slightly younger than me, I would imagine.

(05:24):
Well Because I I did see you.
I did I did see you on a video.
We we also don't have our video on at all during this.
So, do you wanna how old are you?
My parents tell me I was born in 1958, and I have always believed them.
So that makes, 63.
Okay.
So I was born in 1963, and I am 58.

(05:47):
So, yes, you are older than me.
Good.
That's an interesting combination.
5863.
Yes.
You were born in 63 and are now 58.
Yep.
And I am the reverse.
I'm born in 58.
I'm now 60 63.
Right.
But, back to your choice to your question about choices.

(06:11):
What I've learned in life is that you can always think back and ask yourself, did I make the right choice?
And what I have learned is that whatever choice you make, you better listen to people first and then make your own conclusion and don't follow people too easily.

(06:35):
I have learned the hard way, to sometimes go too fast in in decisions or even go too fast in coming to conclusions in in a discussion or in a meeting or in a project.

(06:56):
So in summary, what I have learned is that it pays off to take the time to listen, to discuss, and to listen again, and to spend more time listening than in speaking.
That helps making the right choice.
I have also learned that if you're a good listener, you gain people's respect and they come back to you to ask you for more.

(07:24):
Even if you don't speak all the time in meetings, people do come to you because they have heard you saying the right thing at the right time, which maybe very little things, but I would say more towards the end of the discussion.
I may sound like a priest, but, No.

(07:46):
No.
You're That's my
my learning.
Well, it the that's I let how do I say this nicely?
I hear what you're saying, and yet these these are not the typical approaches that people use.
So how do you do these activities?

(08:09):
I think it's all not all my merit because when I was a child, I remember I was very shy.
Whenever I had to speak in class or in public, my heart would go, at high rate.
And my parents, they registered me in theater classes, and then that helped because you have to learn how to speak and how to Yeah.

(08:34):
Have a bunch of people in front of you.
But, still after the theater experience, I still needed more more rehearsals and more, public speaking, until I attended a university called International Space University where we were really encouraged and, and coached to speak and to convey our ideas.

(09:01):
So you went you went to the International Space University when?
As a young engineer with, only 3 or 4 years of professional experience in my late twenties, I was already working in the space industry, but obviously in in a very narrow field.

(09:22):
And attending the International Space University taught me a lot of things, including this, making choices and, listening in meetings and, letting people express their ideas.
One of the very interesting components of of those, summer schools is what the ISU calls team projects where a group of 25 to to 40 young graduates and and professionals, they are confronted with a challenging topic.

(10:09):
For example, how will you reduce the level of, c o two of, carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which as we know today is is the main factor for global warming and for all these extreme, weather events that we see.

(10:30):
So we give to a group of people a topic, and we ask them, how can space technology and space research contribute to a future solution that will help us reduce the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere?
And then, the group is given entire freedom to go in the direction they want.

(10:56):
The the boundary conditions are you have one day at the end of the course where you will have a bunch of, senior people listening to your final presentation and reading your report and your executive summary.
And what happens in in the middle, in the 2 months roughly of, work is up to the class itself to decide.

(11:24):
So we're coming again to the choice is in our hands.
So here you see a group of, about 30 young people, but some of them not so young.
We had, in some in their early twenties, some in their early forties, some with, significant professional experience, some knew about space, others had almost never heard about space, but the topic has to do with space because that's the name of the university.

(11:55):
And, the first meetings are brainstorming type.
So for example, what I learned about brainstorming is that everyone needs to accept that they are in brainstorming mode before they go into production mode or into writing mode or into, making choices.

(12:19):
So prior to making a choice, it's good to be in brainstorming mode.
And if you are a group of 30 intelligent people, how do you get organized if you have 0 hierarchy, if you have 0 rules?
Do you decide to choose a leader or a moderator?

(12:40):
Do you decide to have minutes of meetings?
Do you decide to give the floor to everyone, or do you just let those who speak loudest, be the the leaders?
And what happens to those who never speak, but who might have great ideas if they come from China, for example, where the culture is completely different?
If you're not asked by your manager in China to speak, you don't speak even if you have the best idea in the group.

(13:08):
So how do you bring a group of people from China, from Russia, from the United States, from Europe, from South Africa, from India.
In all these countries, there are obviously brilliant people, but they have completely different cultures and ways of taking decisions, ways of working in in teams.
So that's what I learned, and that's what brought me to the listening mode.

(13:33):
And whenever needed, we would have smaller breakout conversations.
And I enjoyed sitting down with the Japanese or sitting down with the Chinese.
Even if it was during lunch, you didn't need to schedule an appointment because it was a live in experience.
You would really live with your classmates and with the professors and experts.

(13:55):
We would share most of the meals.
And then slowly you get to open up with a person from an Asian culture who maybe never, left, her or his country.
And just with a bit of time, they really tell you what they know.
And then you discover that you have a gem in the team who can really contribute greatly and, become, at the end of the process, become even a speaker in the final presentation.

(14:30):
Or, just give the best of, of her or his skills in, in video making or in graphic design or in computing and simulating.
So you may ask me, David, why did I choose the topic of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere?

(14:55):
Yeah.
I was going to get to that.
I was just I was listening.
Yes.
Okay.
Well, I will be transparent to you.
Last evening, I was reading the, summary of a very interesting work that was published just 1 week ago on climate change.
This is, an international group called the IPCC.

(15:21):
For those who have never heard of this acronym, it means intergovernmental panel on climate change.
This is a group of, several dozens of, scientists from all over the world who have been working together mostly remotely.

(15:42):
Since several years, they have produced a different series of their publications, and the last series was published last week.
Their report is online.
And on the first page, it says, this report is still being edited and, copy, edited, meaning that there's there's still a small improvement, but the report is there.

(16:09):
And the document, in the collection of reports that I read is just the executive summary that they call, I think, for for decision makers or something like this.
So I started with that at about 40 pages long, and it shows it showed me that planet Earth is getting warmer because we have made it warmer.

(16:42):
It's very clear.
It also tells us that some of the processes, for example, the ice cap melting are going to take centuries to reverse them.
Even if we would stop now, all the emissions of greenhouse gases, if we would just stop now, the ice melting would still continue Oh, yes.

(17:13):
For many, many years.
It's gonna continue for quite some time.
There's it's already it's already in you can't well, it's like the COVID curves.
Just you can't stop it in the middle of going up.
You have to it's gotta find a point in which it starts going down.
Right.
Right.
So we are already engaged in in a very long term process, and ice melting means sea level rise.

(17:42):
And, this document is very, very clearly showing that, which part of the world will see higher, sea level rises.
It can go up to several meters in in a few decades.
So we will be seeing major changes.
It also explains that, the extreme weather phenomena that we see these years in terms of floods and, even bushfires and and high temperatures and storms, they are a clear consequence of human activity and of, the, mainly the the greenhouse gases and the carbon dioxide that as we all know comes from burning, fuel, fossil fossil fuel primarily.

(18:36):
So here we need good people who can make the right choices on, our planet.
I call it planet Earth for the time being.
I'm not using letter letter b.
I pulled out the report, at least what I'm looking at.
It's 414 pages.

(18:58):
Yes.
Yes.
I think that's the the full one.
Yes.
Okay.
But, there must be somewhere on the same website, the, the shorter one.
I think they call it for for decision makers or for governments.
Okay.
Cool.
I'll look.
I just pulled it up to make sure I didn't forget it.
Yes.
Yes.
And I think there will be videos, for those who prefer to learn about this report without having to read the whole thing.

(19:27):
I'm I'm sure they they will be good.
So this is, under the umbrella of the United Nations.
As I said, a very respected group of of scientists, and, and they are very cautious in the way they describe things.
Every sentence, every conclusion, they give a level of probability to it.

(19:49):
So it's, really well done.
And when you see who signs it, you have to say to yourself, yeah, these people know what they're talking about.
It's it's not just a small lab in a in a remote place that that has come up with a new theory.
It's it's really solid science.

(20:11):
So that's our planet and, for me, especially since I'm in the world of education, we need well prepared people to take us, to the planet that we want or to keep us in the planet that we want.

(20:35):
I'm gonna break in a little bit because you said you chose the reduced level of CO 2 in the atmosphere for the students as an example, that we're talking about decision making.
My first question there are others, but my first question is, do they come up with answers that actually work?

(20:56):
They work in 3 phases in most of these projects.
The first one, as we were discussing, is brainstorming, listening to experts.
So there are first a series of core lectures or seminars covering different aspects of space sciences and atmospheric sciences, but also covering the legal aspects, international collaboration, the economics of the whole thing, the engineering solutions.

(21:38):
And the second phase is deciding on what do they want to put in the report that should be guided by, a mission statement.
So they define their own final objective.
What do they want their report to do?
Should it be a road map for government officials or for scientists around the world on what to do next?

(22:04):
Or should it be the proposal for a new international agency that will take care of climate change?
Or will it be, an international fundraising effort to really get resources, to investigate what is important to know in the area of climate change, or is it a combination of everything?

(22:30):
And to answer your question, David, those reports, they came up they come up with, good ideas very often that are picked up by decision makers.
And sometimes those ideas they come too early, but eventually, they make it into reality.

(22:51):
There have been, for example, a space a national space agency that was set up based on one of those reports, or there have been companies or, competitive, research grants that have been obtained as a consequence of the initial team project reports.

(23:13):
So the outcome is manifold, but what does happen systematically is that at least some of the, alumni, they take their project and then they present it at an international conference.
They adapt it or they make it into a PhD thesis.

(23:38):
So the ideas out of these projects, they they have their own life, afterwards.
The reason I ask is, very specific because I find a lot there are a lot of think tanks, groups who work on projects all the time.
And if we were to look around the world, climate change, if we use just that category, and I don't know if you know they're in project moon, we have 6 mega challenges.

(24:05):
In my opinion, the 17 SDGs were not completely thought through, for a variety of reasons not to pick on them, but there's even grammatical structure.
The first 2 are no hunger, no poverty.
But then we have gender equality, and that's cultural.
There's so many there's so many different challenges with the way they're structured.
So we have 6, and one of them is climate change.

(24:27):
And I in my work, I I talk to people like you all the time as we're developing project moon.
And I had this individual on the phone the other day, and he said very bright guy, does a lot of research, does his homework, and he I listened to him describe how he was going to solve this version of climate change.

(24:49):
And I said, so you're going to close down in 5 years?
Because he said, if we don't get this done in 5 years, it's gonna be terrible.
And I said, so so in 5 years, you'll close down your business.
Your operations, your foundation, you'll close it down because you didn't achieve it.
He said, what do you mean?

(25:10):
I said, look.
You tell me 5 years that the Earth has, and you have a plan to solve it.
That plan has to account for 7,500,000,000 people, 50,000,000 species, and you have the answer.
So if we followed it in 5 years, we'd be done.
And he looks at me.
We're on Zoom.
And I said, don't you get it?

(25:32):
If you have a plan plans for after 5 years, then your plans don't work.
And he puts his hands between his his head between his hands, and he says, we have plans for 5 years, 10 years, and 15 years.
I said, how can you have a 10 15 year plan if 5 years?
He said, well, we account for other people to do things.

(25:53):
I said, then that's not a plan to solve it.
That's a plan to do what you want to do, but it's not solving the challenge of climate change in 5 years.
So the reason I'm asking the question is, you give people an assignment.
They get to choose that assignment.
Yet to me, I don't see climate change stopping.

(26:15):
So tons of people around the world have given these projects to people.
Climate change has not stopped, neither has mass extinction.
We have 500 new species on the endangered species list out of, out of Australia because of the forest fires last years where 2,000,000,000 animals were killed.
We are not stopping mass extinction.

(26:37):
So if all of these people, and I'm not picking on you, I'm using it for decision making, What are we doing wrong if these are the methodologies we use and we're not solving them?
Yes.
Well, I think we we can take this back to the vision of the of the founders of the International Space University.
You know, this was in during the Cold War where some countries hardly talk to each other.

(27:06):
And, their vision was if humanity needs to go to space or also if humanity wants to take advantage of the immense opportunities of space down here on Earth, We need a university that trains those decision makers, who will take humanity to space in a peaceful way, in an inclusive way.

(27:41):
We need to train the future decision makers around the world, whether they are in policy, in economics, in science, in entrepreneurship.
We would like them to share the same values of international collaboration, of peaceful development, and exploration.

(28:06):
And we want them to speak the same language in a virtual way.
In other words, we want them to be friends.
So that word was used in the cold war, And I happen to be one of the early students of that visionary university sharing a class with, all these diverse people.

(28:32):
And the objective is that whatever decisions are made, they take into account what others are doing and, that the consequences of those decisions are as much as possible beneficial to the large populations and not just beneficial to a few and then detrimental to others.

(28:59):
So this spirit of inclusiveness, of mutual respect, of discussing and learning together is still today our DNA.
No matter what decisions are made or who makes them, it is a state of mind that we're building, and this has been going on for 30 years now.

(29:24):
There are over 5,000 alumni.
Most of them are working in the space, field, about 80%.
And, what's interesting today to see is that you can go virtually to any organization that is space related, whether it's a space agency or a company or a research lab.

(29:56):
For example, you look for a partner or a or a customer or a supplier or you look for a politician who should listen to your idea, wherever you go, you will most probably find someone who has studied at this university.
So I think the advantage of the space community is that it's still very small compared, for example, with aeronautics or with defense.

(30:26):
And this makes it possible that with only 5,000 alumni, you have 1 or 2 in in every space related organization.
So you can go and talk to someone who has been to the same place even if it's not the same promotion, and then immediately you connect, and it makes the conversation much easier.
I shared with you before we got on the call that in Project Moon Hut, 70, 80% of the people that we have are not space people.

(30:52):
And I and I also shared that to me, space is geography.
It's not an industry.
We don't look for people who have that background because we're looking for individuals who look at the world differently.
It doesn't matter what discipline they're in.
And I was in Luxembourg.
I spoke I've shared this before.

(31:15):
I don't know if I shared it with you.
Spoke in Luxembourg, and I was asked to speak at their space conference.
There were 500 people who showed up at the at this event the year before, and they said, David, we'd like you to speak at this event.
And I said, that'd be great.
I'd love to speak for you.
What do you want me to talk about?
And we came up with a topic.
And it's part of a broader conference.

(31:37):
They also have an artificial intelligence one and a Fintech one or some others.
I don't remember off top of my head.
I I know there's an AI side.
And I show up into the room that's supposed to have these 500 people, and it's post the year that they are 1 the year before, I think that's when they lost the money from Planet Resources.
I think they put an 18,000,000.

(31:59):
So the country lost the 18,000,000.
I don't that's an exact number.
Don't quote me on it.
And there were less than 75 people in the room.
And there was an excitement the year before because they thought of opportunity and things going well.
And here I am in this room, and I said, look.
It's it's the 50th anniversary of the space flight, and we're no further than we were.

(32:23):
I mean, we've done a lot in in lower orbit.
We've sent probes out, and we've seen.
We haven't achieved the dreams that were talked about 40 years ago.
So going back to this decision making, is this decision making model where someone comes in, they're asked the question, they have to learn, and that's leadership and that's management and that's getting together and doing.

(32:47):
Is that the approach that we need to solve 2 challenges?
1, solving for Earth, and 2, achieving the desired outcomes that individuals have to reach further than Earth.
Yes.
I think, we can look at the answer from the following point of view.

(33:11):
You mentioned Luxembourg.
You could go to the first space company that was set up in Luxembourg that that was SES, satellite communications.
I lived there for a bit.
So yes.
Right.
And, you go to to Betsdorf and you ask around, can you introduce me to to some ISU alumni?

(33:36):
Immediately everyone will say yes, this or that.
Because not only they are alumni, but they they have lunch together regularly.
So they know who's who.
And then you talk to the managers and ask them, why are you hiring ISU alumni?
And they will tell you because they are different.

(33:58):
Because they come with a more open mind.
They are able to tackle complex topics.
They know how to talk to people and how to listen.
They are not afraid of sitting down with someone who may have a completely different background.
Because when you have a different background, you also have a different way of tackling problems and solving problems and taking decisions.

(34:26):
So they've been through this experience and they make them this experience make makes them better employees.
So SES is just one example of a company that comes to ISU No.
I I I understand that.
Mine is mine is mine is a bigger question as you talked about c o two and solving for the atmosphere.

(34:47):
If if this model works, the model you're talking about of leaders of of education or group dynamics where you give them, they brainstorm, they come up with, they deliver, then does do you have a group of people right now who have solved the reducing the level of c o two in the atmosphere, and is that something that will do it in a in a near term solution?

(35:17):
Is there an answer sitting with a group of students right now?
Not a paper, not a thesis, not a new group, not a new agency.
Is there a paper right now that solves this for 7,500,000,000 people and 50,000,000 species where humans are just one of them?
I wish there was.

(35:38):
I wish there was.
And, probably, I'm not the the best person to answer because I am by far not a climatologist or an expert in in, in these things.
But, what I'm interested in also in sharing with you, David, is is the process and the way we might find the solution you're asking for by collaboration, but also by bringing in, non space players.

(36:09):
And that's something that, we've been discussing earlier today with, my successor, the presidency of ISU, professor Pascal Ehrenfreund.
One of, her priorities is to bring closer together the the space and what we call the non space.

(36:34):
And we believe that precisely this challenge of the the c o two levels in the atmosphere can be very attractive to researchers, but also to investors.
Can you imagine if a company has a system that you can install in places and, just transform c o two into something else that that can be used.

(37:04):
That doesn't exist yet, but maybe we can find it, together by attracting investors and decision makers from completely different areas and and different countries.
That that's exactly what we're doing.
We don't we don't look first people who are space people.

(37:27):
Meaning, I and I I I shared this with Nicole Stott on the last interview is we've just brought on price order as Coopers, Deloitte, and PWC.
And in each room of the rooms, they saw our videos for project moon up.
They see what we're looking to do.
Our desired outcome is to improve life on earth for all species.
We're addressing some of these challenges, including climate change.

(37:50):
And they said they were more or less fighting who could be on the call.
And out of 18 or 16 people, only one of them was related or a ver a space person, if we wanna call that, because we didn't need space people.
Project Moon Hut needs tax people.
And the, the the person we have an individual for the past 3 years who does the cleaning up.

(38:12):
We don't edit our podcast.
We only cut front and back and sound balance.
Dor Avi, Aviran out of Israel from binary options.
He is not a space person.
The individuals we look for are people who are great at what they do, and then we give them the challenge of what we're working on.

(38:33):
So I'm really interested in the outcomes.
If we've 30 years, and let's not pick a let's look at concepts, not Space University.
The concept of educating individuals to solve the major challenges we have on Earth.
Let's use global.
It doesn't matter where they are, where they work, where they live.

(38:56):
We need a better, faster solution methodology.
It's not about investment to me.
Yeah.
Sure.
We need to make some more money.
But if in fact, the data that's coming back is true, that there is expected to be about 50 to 60 degrees c across the Mediterranean, which goes through Tunisia, which goes all the way to Bangladesh, India, through Hong Kong, and the and that region comes all the way around to Texas and Mexico.

(39:24):
If we have 50 to 60 degrees c, we're gonna have max acid exodus.
We're gonna have civil, political, environmental unrest.
We're going to have challenges so enormous that that we won't be able to solve these challenges in that time frame be in that later time because we'll be so overwhelmed with the other challenges.

(39:49):
So how do we take your model, not not International Space University.
I'm talking about your model that you're using, that Juhan's using.
How do we take that model and make it so that we actually solve the challenges?
I think we have a good example with the the International Medical Community and COVID.

(40:12):
COVID is one of these challenges, global challenges that, doesn't know about, political borders or climate zones or or time zones.
And I think we've had a good example of the medical communities all over the world really exchanging data very quickly so that they could learn from each other, their experiences in mitigating, in protecting the populations, but also in the development of of vaccines.

(40:46):
I think we have broken the record of how much time it takes.
Yeah.
I think I think before it was 4 or 5 years, and now we brought that down.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
So I think that model, can be a good start for humanity tackling other challenges.
We might have addressed one challenge, and that is the challenge of creating a vaccine.

(41:11):
Yet when it was this the construct of human nature was not part of the science.
So for example, they didn't say, what if there was an individual in authority who discounted the fact that COVID didn't exist and created a movement of millions and millions, hundreds of millions of people around the world would fall fault find fault in this development.

(41:37):
So that side of the equation was scientifically addressed, but, yeah, human nature not addressed.
And I think the same thing happens traditionally with with climate change.
We're having the same exact conversation.
We have individuals who say we need to protect the environment, and then they have their air con on, every time the the guy who invented Siri say has done the calculations.

(42:03):
Every time you post one image on Facebook, Instagram, or any of these, you use enough power to be able to get the image through the wires, through the servers, and get it to post it, not including storage, to power 3 20 watt light bulbs for 1 hour.
So if someone posts 10 times in a day, they could have had 10 hours of just 10 images.

(42:28):
10 hours of 3 light bulbs running the entire time.
So on one hand, don't eat meat.
On the other hand, go tell the Kazakhstanis that it's their culture.
Go tell the Texans they can't have meat.
So maybe while the COVID has part of the solution, we're still missing the bio the human nature side of it, which is not being addressed as appropriately.

(42:55):
Yes.
Yes.
I want to be an optimist, David.
And,
I I and I I I am an optimist, but I go negative often to solve the positive.
That's how I you've gotta you've gotta look around and say well, let's say how about being a realist.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I want to be an optimist because I do see progress in society, and in industry.

(43:21):
I see people changing behaviors.
Today's younger generations, at least in the countries where I am evolving, think differently from my youth years.
The young people of today are much more aware of, how their behavior can have an impact on climate change for example.

(43:50):
They are thinking twice before taking an airplane.
I never heard this when I was a young person.
They are thinking twice before buying a car not only because it's expensive but also because it pollutes.
I see in industry, if you go to a fast food place the covers of the cups today they are made of paper.

(44:13):
No no more plastic.
So I think, things are changing because of science, because of, social pressure, because of, political correctness.
It's it's all a combination.
So I I still want to be an optimist.
I I Maybe we're not going fast enough.

(44:34):
No.
No.
We're not going fast enough.
And I again, here I come with being pragmatic, being, to to looking with my own eyes.
I have lived in Hong Kong for 10 years.
I spent a lot of time in all of the from Japan all the way through Cambodia, Malaysia, Singapore, in China.
The 76, I don't know the exact number.

(44:56):
Again, don't quote me.
Percent of the world's population lives there.
And they are consuming at an unbelievable pace.
In China, they built a dump that was supposed to last 50 years.
It lasted 25 years.
Again, it's I don't know if you spent the time in these type of countries.

(45:17):
Not again.
But I don't know if you spent the time in these countries.
But consumerism is still huge.
Unfortunately.
And it's I'm not gonna say it's unsustainable.
That's a bad way to look at it.
I would say that the solutions we're using and the hope that we're that's being expressed as you just said it, This new generation.

(45:44):
What did the new you know, you you probably remember you weren't born in the states, but there was something called the sixties seventies, and it was peace, love, rock and roll, save the world, become amazing.
Who did these people become?
Who who did they grow up to be?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They became the hedge fund managers, the mega mansion people, the flying all over the world people.

(46:06):
I I Yes.
We can't put our my belief is we can't put our hope in a generation that doesn't have the influence in my economic power to be able to make those changes.
Yes.
And and, you will allow me to take this back to education.
Sure.
I'd love to.
Absolutely.
Education and training, which is in my opinion at at the basis of all this.

(46:32):
And I have learned, for example, through more recent, team project of our students here in Strasbourg who were looking at, plastic in the oceans.
I was an ignorant in this field.
I had always thought, yeah, all these plastic islands on the oceans, that's because the people on the ships, they they dump everything in the water.

(46:57):
Oh, really?
Okay.
My students taught me that most of it comes through, all the, the rivers and everything that the urban areas dump in the sea.
Yeah.
And that's where the plastic comes from.
So that is much closer now to the behavior of each individual citizen and what you dump and how you do it, but also the behavior of the, authorities and, the recycling or the non recycling organizations and companies who, dump things, on the rivers and the and the seas.

(47:33):
So education, and I see this again in the in the younger generation, of people, they know that, the textile industry, and all the tissues and all the old clothes that we throw away that is also very polluting.
So if you'd never were told this, you just continue buying and you continue consuming as you were saying.

(48:01):
So but if you know the consequences and someone gives you the numbers and if the young kids at school are really really, learning about this, they will be different citizens.
I don't think that's happening.
Okay.
I just don't even But, you you just

(48:24):
agree you agree education is important, though.
I no.
I definitely but depends on what we define as education.
The the you use a great example, solid waste runoff, which is a plastics into the ocean, and it is a big, big it is a challenge.
However, if I was to tell you with everything you've just described and the and plastics are a big topic.

(48:46):
We do consume a lot of plastics, and they don't break down, and they sit in ocean floors, and they clog up ways, and they make it difficult for animals.
The United States, every day, dumps 12,000,000,000 gallons of municipal waste into the oceans because of old pipes, because of structure, because of all sorts of things, which 12,000,000,000.

(49:08):
If we were then go and the if we were to then go to Europe with 720,000,000 people, they're all inclusive, there's more dumped than the United States, but let's assume that's 12,000,000,000.
And then if we just took 2 countries, I'm not picking on them, we'll take China and India.
They dump let's just use 12,000,000,000.

(49:30):
That's approximately 50,000,000,000 gallons of solid way, municipal waste.
That's not including radioactive waste, agricultural waste, industrial waste, mining waste, and several other ways.
And to give you an example what municipal waste would look like is imagine you had a cup in front of you, and it's has water in it.
Unless you use filtration, you probably have particles of microplastics in it.

(49:54):
You already have it.
Our body drinks them all the time.
And then you have another cup next to you, and it's municipal waste, but it looks like a deep dark chocolate coffee.
And that's just garbage coming out of our our cities.
If you had to take a scientific guess, which is gonna be more destructive to the oceans?
The plastic or the poisons, the pesticides, the things that come out in those rivers, not unlike what's happening right now in Hungary.

(50:24):
Or is it is it Hungary?
Yeah.
With these, the the sludge, the sludge, which is covering their, our turkey.
It's covering their waterways.
Right.
Which is more dangerous?
And yet, I mean, maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not gonna drink that coffee.

(50:46):
Right.
And you're not going to smoke that smoke that cigarette that has 70, cancer, triggering products in it because you know it.
So I think what you just said should be said in all schools.
It should.
Yeah.
By all teachers.
We have t we have people we have people But
it is not.

(51:07):
But it is not done.
It is not done.
And and at the same time, we have people on our team who when we do our our calls, they're smoking.
I've actually said to myself, I wonder when I meet them what they will smell like.
Mhmm.
Because they smoke.
There are a lot of people around the world who smoke.
Yep.
Even knowing Yeah.

(51:28):
So so, again, I'm coming back to this.
We're talking about choices here.
My question to you is as an educator, not as I International Space University, as an educator, we're missing something.
I mean, I I hear what you're saying.
We're missing something.
And that secret sauce is that we're not looking for reports.

(51:51):
We're not looking we're looking for solutions and people to make them happen.
How do we get from making the right choices to making that happen?
With the right people.
Okay.
So so how if you're guiding me, we're building project Moon Hut.
We've got teams of people working on all sorts of things.

(52:13):
How would I find how would we find the right people?
Silence means we're thinking.
And, we when we look at universities, I think very few universities struggle with, having sufficient good candidates who want to go and study there.

(52:41):
So I think the interest in learning is there, the bright minds are there, but not all candidates have the the means to study what they want because they don't get the visa to go to where they want to go Yeah.
Or they don't have the wealthy parents or the wealthy government who pays for their tuition.

(53:06):
So if we really want to train the right decision makers who will transform those ideas into action, I think we need to invest more in education.
And, we should maybe, find a way where, every company has a foundation for, or a charity.

(53:31):
Not only the big the big, ones, but, there's a a sort of a tax that is used on on education.
I know this sounds very, very socialist and
I I actually I'm old
fashioned, but Don't
don't Yep.
It doesn't it doesn't sound that way.

(53:54):
I will add my commentary to it, then you tell me how to get around it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So so we we have a tax on education.
People that they they have to find a, there's a a foundational component of what they do, and it makes or it helps universities to become stronger.

(54:15):
Yes.
And more inclusive.
Okay.
So before I get to the universities, can this is a personal question.
So try to and I'm saying it intentionally is a personal question because I'd like a real answer.
Well, I let me ask you another question first.
Sorry.
Do you have children?
It doesn't mean you have to have children, but I'm asking a question.

(54:37):
3.
Okay.
You have 3 children.
Alright.
And I I ask that because timelines change with people.
In your timeline looking at the challenges of the world, you can pick any category you want.
What is your timeline that if we don't solve what's going on, we're gonna have a we're gonna have a lot of challenges.

(55:01):
Now it means you could be saying, well, but we'll solve it because that's the way I'm thinking.
But what's your timeline?
What's the date?
This, I'm discussing this sometimes with our youngest who is 22.
Okay.
When he was a young boy, his primary school teacher would tell them about the challenge of water and the scarcity.

(55:27):
Mhmm.
And the fact that we may end up, with insufficient drinking water.
And, he he had nightmares about this.
Because the teacher was teaching us.
So the teacher got got her point across.
And now today, this same son is studying physics, and he's concerned about the challenges we are discussing today with you, David.

(55:58):
Yeah.
He's concerned.
And, next time I will ask him about the timeline, I think he will give a better answer than I could ever just, just guess here.
I'll give you the, the astronaut answer about, the question, when are we going to have people on Mars?
This is a question that, an Italian astronaut has been asking himself to those who know.

(56:24):
And every time he asked a question, no matter what year it is, he gets the same answer in 25 years.
Now when are we when are we going to solve the planet Earth, challenges?
Well, we need, better brains than mine to give you a a good answer.

(56:45):
Well, the the reason there's a there's a study, and I I I've again, I'm hoping I'm not screwing it up completely.
I'm gonna try to look it up very quickly to see if I can find it.
But I'll so I'll ask you a question to to start that with is, do you know how long behaviorally it takes in terms of the number of meals someone misses before and days that would take, assuming 3 per day, that an individual do something they'd never thought they'd do before.

(57:17):
They'd steal.
They'd kill.
They do.
Do you know how many days the behaviorally have come up with that people believe is the the end of the rope?
Well, if I had no food to bring to my mouth, I would go out of the city Mhmm.
In into the fields Yep.

(57:41):
And, would look for food.
Obviously, at first, you try to do it without stealing, but if you are really, really hungry, I think the law allows you to to take an apple here and there If that's all you have, to because the only way you have.
So I would go out to nature, and, I think, part of the answer to your questions is let's move out of the urban concentrations into nature if we can.

(58:15):
Personally, I've grown up in the countryside, And then I went to study in Barcelona, which was a very polluted city.
Yes.
It used to be very bad.
Before the Olympics.
Yeah.
Now it has improved, but I didn't like Barcelona because it was dirty and, polluted and noisy.
And now everyone loves Barcelona because it's very lively, very creative, lots of things to do.

(58:41):
But big cities, I think, are not a human thing.
The the, the trend should be for more green and, and more, country and more nature.
And if you live in the countryside, you can live without having to steal anyone.

(59:02):
And, if you take this to the extreme, you go to the Amazonian rainforest, and you take a good guide.
They will show you that you can live in the forest.
You don't survive.
You live in the forest.
You find everything you need to drink, to fish, to eat, to heal yourself.

(59:24):
Most medicines come from plants, and if you know which plant is good for what, you're saved.
So I think that is a good planet to have.
The the again, we come back to this number.
It's the number I always start with, a 7,500,000,000 people adding 80,000,000 people net gain every year.

(59:45):
And in the next 20 some odd years, we'll have 10 30 beers.
We'll have 10,000,000,000 people on this planet.
The number that I have researched, it comes back and is there's different.
But if you don't have if you can't eat for 9 meals, it's not a choice, you will do something you never thought you'd do before.

(01:00:06):
If you have children and they're not eating, you might do it sooner because of because of hunger.
Yep.
The challenge that when we look at solving for some of the challenges on earth, and sometimes people will say, David, are you gonna solve peace on earth?
And I say, look, don't we have enough on our plate?

(01:00:27):
And by the way, if we take 2 heterosexual men and 1 heterosexual woman and put them on an island stranded, there will not be peace on earth.
So I don't think we'll ever have peace on earth.
We've had we'll always have conflict, so we're not solving for that.
But if the world becomes superheated, the waters as you talk about even go up 15 centimeters, 6 inches, 30 centimeters, a foot, we will have displacement at such a scale.

(01:00:54):
We have never we haven't been able to address it, and it will lead to political, societal, environmental.
There'll be so many more challenges that will come out of that That it's it it could be overwhelming to a point that we we won't have the time to work on the bigger issues and solve for them.

(01:01:17):
That's why I asked that question.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
Yes.
And so so I understand education.
Yet when you say education, I'm asking myself, how do we take your model, the choice for plan a b is in our hands that that the first thing is choices.
How do we solve for 7,500,000,000?

(01:01:39):
How do we solve for planet Earth in the areas that are necessary?
Again, we're not gonna get rid of hating each other.
We're not gonna have even if you know cultures and lived in other cultures, your hating people is not gonna stop.
But how do we solve for enough that gives us the, I don't know, the the breathing room to make a new to make an age of infinite?

(01:02:08):
Yeah.
Maybe we can look at this, from the the leaders, perspective.
Okay.
And I think that's the the part of our conversation that we also wanted to tackle, the decision makers.
If we have if we have leaders who share the same values and who come to agree on the consumer problem that you just described in in some countries where there's still high high consumption and and high waste that is clearly unnecessary.

(01:02:47):
People can live with much, much less.
But the, commercial and business mechanisms are such that the more you sell, the better you're off, and you need to convince people to buy more.
And that's how the whole marketing science was invented, because you need to sell to make a profit, and the more you sell, etcetera.

(01:03:15):
Mhmm.
So probably we need to reverse or modify that model so that everyone can live without this push for, consuming.
Now how can we change that with the right decision makers?
And how do we make right decision makers?

(01:03:39):
Maybe by bringing them to the same school so that they learn about each other and they understand how the others think.
And this should include political leaders, scientists, and entrepreneurs.
They should all be learning and practicing as young people so that when they get out of school, they continue forming teams and they share the same values instead of, having countries competing for sometimes not very clear reasons or companies competing, just because of market share.

(01:04:25):
That is a model that it's probably not very sustainable.
If we if we have the double of the population in in a 100 years, personally I believe we can still live on planet Earth, on planet a with more people than what we have today if we learn how to manage our resources, in a more intelligent way, in a more, recycling way, and, really using the resources we need.

(01:04:58):
And even without the, the hate and the the war that you were describing, David, as unavoidable, I want to believe that they are avoidable.
I want to believe they are avoidable, and we can go, in the right direction.

(01:05:22):
I'm looking around the world, and maybe you've got a different newspaper or or feed than I do.
I'm not seeing.
It's not happening.
I agree.
Okay.
The
when I'm working on projects, I think I try to find with the people that I'm dealing with a a means by which to find a baseline.

(01:05:49):
And I and I love that your example that you used about the Chinese individual who in their society, culturally, they don't speak up unless they're asked even if they have
a great idea.
Yep.
That I that actually happened to me at NYU.
There were I was, an adjunct professor, but I taught a continuing ed executive education.
I taught a a series of programs for over 12 years.

(01:06:12):
And we had a student in the class who was from, 3 student 1 student in my class in the who was in other classes.
And the dean shared with me that this student was not gonna get his diploma.
And I said, why not?

(01:06:33):
She said, well, the 2 other teachers that teach him in other classes gave him bad grades because they never spoke up.
And I said, wait.
Wait.
Wait.
That's not their culture.
Said, but they the the teachers don't care.
That's their job to speak up.
I said, well, he spoke up tremendously in my class, in our class, because I knew culturally he had to find a safe zone, and we did things differently.

(01:06:56):
And I said to the dean, I will they have to pass these classes.
I will volunteer my time.
I will work with these 3 students.
They will take the same class, but I will manage it.
I will do it all on my own time.
And these are bright people, and they should get their diploma certificate, whatever they were getting.

(01:07:19):
And she said to me, David, stay out of other people's business.
Just do your own.
And all 3 of them left the United States, went back to their countries without their diplomas.
Oh.
Yeah.
Okay?
So, I taught at NYU for 12 years, and I can tell you that it people are gonna hear this.

(01:07:41):
It was not the best experience in the world.
I was told that we were supposed to have teachers that my classes are gonna be reviewed every semester.
At least one person would sit in, at least the class.
In 12 years, not one single person sat in my classes at all.
We did a lot of group activities.
For example, the first day we got together, everybody got to know where they came from.

(01:08:03):
My first class had 18 students from 17 countries.
I told the class, I'm here to learn from you just as much as you're here to learn from me.
Amazing.
I'm still in touch with many of these students.
And at the end of the semester, I would have a party, bring everybody together from all different years.
We'd had people coming from 8 years earlier, 9 years earlier coming to these parties.

(01:08:27):
We'd have 50, 60, 70 people.
They were amazing.
And the the dean and the school every year said you can't have them.
They're adults.
It's after school is over.
They get to pay their own meal, do everything.
They didn't want that.
And I've had the same challenges while teaching at Hong Kong University or HKUST and others in in other parts of the world.

(01:08:53):
So I'm I'm going back.
The reason I I'm bringing that up is I don't know if education is the means to solve these challenges because we have to fix education before we can fix those challenges.
And I don't have a timeline in my head for fixing education.

(01:09:15):
Maybe you do.
Do you have a timeline to fix education so that we can graduate enough people who, like you said, the, the decision makers get together and they solve it?
They work together?
That the Koreans and the Japanese and the Chinese and the Russians and the Americans and the Germans and the South Africans, Botswanians, the Brazilian, that they all get along in the same room?

(01:09:41):
Yes.
I think that I want to believe that's possible.
K.
And, I like when you talk about the teachers, primary and secondary school because they can do a big part of the job.
I know that, investing in in education is investing in the longer term, but that can be done in parallel with other things.

(01:10:06):
And, bringing education, but also opportunities to every community needs to be a priority.
And when I say opportunities, I mean that you have a brain drain in many countries
Mhmm.
That have very good universities, very good graduates, but they need to go elsewhere or they need to change sectors and and work in something very different from what they studied to make a living.

(01:10:36):
So it's about opportunities as well.
And that's something we we're doing very modestly, but, we're for example, and this will be announced very soon, an agreement with the United Nations for joint scholarships to emerging nations to help, good candidates from those countries, come and study to some of our courses.

(01:11:09):
And, once we announce that we're working with the United Nations on this, we hope that there will be others, joining to chip in and complete the scholarship so that, the student, herself or himself, has almost nothing to pay for, for a good course.
And and among those, we hope to find, corporations who, now I want to believe, more and more are convinced that they need to invest in these, underprivileged communities because they will become their future employees or customers or they will be future decision makers in the countries where they want to operate.

(01:11:53):
So it's investing in education is not only for governments or for parents, it's also for companies.
And I think that corporate social responsibility is is growing.
At least, I haven't seen statistics, recently, but I want to believe that corporate social responsibility, and and real investing in in development by companies, is growing.

(01:12:22):
Would you agree, David?
I, there's a there's a videos that I have shown people that I saw years ago.
I can't remember the guy's name.
It's about it has gumballs.
And they talk he talks about the exodus of the brain drains from countries.
And that once these individuals and I'm gonna extrapolate from that.

(01:12:45):
Once these individuals get educated in another country, they they left their home country, and now they're being educated in Switzerland or they're being educated in London.
Going back to their home countries is not always what happens, and the companies that hire them export them to other countries.
Yep.
So we don't always solve the challenge that we're looking to solve.

(01:13:09):
And it's the top tier people who get the education, and those top tier people end up not always staying and solving their challenges.
And then what they learn, and this is not socialism, is they learn consumerism.
I lived in Hong Kong.
I had 40 square meter, 400 square feet, and I was happy.

(01:13:32):
In the states, I have including finished, basement, we have about 400 square meter, 4,000 square feet.
Yeah.
And
I gotta walk a lot to get everywhere.
I paid a lot more for that place in Hong Kong, though, by a factor of at at least, almost 1 and a half to 2 times what it cost for me for my house.
Yeah.
And yet I mean, Hong Kong, the first week I was there, there was a front page of the South China Morning Post was if the if the rest of the world lived at the same level consumption and utilization as Hong Kong Hong Kong people do, we'd need 13 additional earths to keep up with demand and resources.

(01:14:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, again, I I'm not trying to pick on you.
Interviews always go in different directions.
And what I'm trying to do is you've kinda hit me at an interesting place.
And that's why I'm asking these questions because I'm pushing is I see what's happening around the world not only because I read it, because I've lived there or worked there.

(01:14:38):
So I've worked in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Cambodia, Malaysia, Singapore.
I've worked in these countries, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Macedonia.
I've worked in these places.
I know what it's like, and I know that some of the challenges.
I don't I haven't lived there enough to know everything, but I've seen what's the impacts that are happening.
And Project Moon Hunter, what we're doing is we're looking to solve them in a way that's very unconventional.

(01:15:01):
That leave that alone at that point.
What we're looking for is unbelievable talent around the world to help us achieve what we believe.
And when people do hear what we're doing, what we believe is a means by which to address some of the 6 mega challenges that we see.

(01:15:25):
And so why I'm pushing is because I'm a I'm a little bit of a timeline guy.
If you said to me, I've gotta be there in, that it's gotta be completed in 10 years, I would have a completely different plan than if you said it had to be done in 7 years.
It would be a completely different plan if I had to be done in 5 years.
And if you said it had to be done in 2 years, it will be completely different plan.

(01:15:48):
So I'm looking at the plan, and we're talking education.
And I did a TED talk about education.
Long story to it.
I did a TED talk about education, and education is governance.
That's all it is.
Education is governance.
And you teach differently in China than you do in India, than you do in the United States, than you do in in France because you're creating citizens.

(01:16:14):
And we haven't solved education yet.
So I'm I'm challenged with the structure of finding the right people who can think differently enough, who could be a part of the team and build.
And I'm pushing you because I'm trying to find answers that I might be missing, a different way, something I've overlooked, a red line that I have not heard about.

(01:16:37):
And so that I could say, okay.
Now I know something that I can do that I haven't done before.
Yep.
Yep.
Well, let me give you a space example that I think it can be extrapolated to any industry, to maybe, look at these, challenges that you are very well describing at, project Moon Hut.

(01:17:03):
One of my predecessors, Carl Durch, he would describe the the training that our students get by saying at the International Space University, we do not turn an engineer into a lawyer or vice versa.
What we do is that we welcome a lawyer and do we make her a space lawyer who's able to work with space engineers and, economists and, life scientists because she will have known how they think, and she will be the perfect team member in a multidisciplinary project team, which is what today's projects are about.

(01:17:51):
The the complex challenges we have will be solved by, as we all know, by multidisciplinary teams and multicultural teams because those problems are global, and we need good people from all over the place.
So just this learning of, being open to ideas and understanding the the terminology and the principles, used in other disciplines makes you a better specialist in your own discipline.

(01:18:22):
So that's at the very basics of our teaching and and learning philosophy, and, obviously, that is being adopted by many universities today.
And, I think we can extrapolate this.
But if if you we stay in the in the space domain, I think looking at our planet by comparing with other planets can also help us find some solutions even if the other planets are not, inhabited.

(01:19:05):
There is a field called, comparative planetology that looks at Venus, for example, or at Mars and tries to understand why did Mars have a magnetic field?
Why did it have a a denser atmosphere before?
Why does Mars no longer have a magnetic field or or very weak, and why does it have a much thinner atmosphere today?

(01:19:33):
Are they linked?
What does this teach us, for planet Earth?
Or what does Venus look like?
And why are there extreme conditions there?
Is there life possible on Venus?
What can we learn from Venus?

(01:19:55):
What can we apply?
And how does that help us understand the climatology on Earth by comparing with other planets who have extreme weather?
There are even concepts that you will have heard about, called, terraforming Mars.

(01:20:17):
Yep.
So transforming, the atmosphere of Mars into a breathable one.
Now everything we learn, looking at other planets, we can apply it here and maybe we can do some cleanup in our own planet through this learning.
So this is in the in the science and the engineering field, but also we see space as a great place for inspiration.

(01:20:46):
Many people are now imagining how will it be to live on the moon.
What model of society would we like to have there?
What will be the governance?
And, who will decide?
Will they depend on on the Earth decisions, will they be independent, how can we not repeat the same mistakes on the moon that we have made on Earth.

(01:21:14):
So all that good thinking is very positive and perhaps we can use it already here without waiting for, whenever we will be living on the moon.
There's a very interesting report that our students published, 2 years ago called sustainable moon.

(01:21:36):
What they did was, taking the Earth's sustainable development goals and translating them into how would they be rewritten for a moon society, what would be important to do if we would have people living there permanently.

(01:21:58):
And that report got a price, in Japan, given by the Moon Village Association.
So you were asking
Isn't the Moon Village Association out of Europe?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because you've got you've got Mencken's.
I think Mencken's is on that and Faber used to be a part and

(01:22:21):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
That's right.
I think today it's it's quite global, but you're right.
Some of the thinkers are from Europe, but also from the US.
But they had their conference in Japan.
Oh, so it was a conference in Japan.
I I thought you said they got it out of Japan as if there was an entity out of Japan.

(01:22:42):
And so that's why it was just this.
There's there there I think they're a Vienna group.
Yes.
I'm not sure where they are registered, but, we're quite proud of of having been the hosts here in Strasbourg of the inaugural conference, the Moon Village Association, some 4 years ago.

(01:23:04):
And, they had their conference in Japan, about one and a half years ago.
That's where our students
So they they run they got this they got the price because they wrote about how the world how the moon should be run.
Yes.
Yes.
In a sustainable way, by taking into account, the sustainable development goals in terms of, they didn't take all 17 of them, but but a good number.

(01:23:34):
And the report is public.
It's freely accessible on the ISU library online, but also on the website, a dedicated website that is very easily, found, just by, looking for sustainable moon.
I think it's dotcom.
So you by so the point is is that we could find people because how?

(01:24:02):
How does I understand studying other culture other planetary, structures and why magnetic field and thinner atmosphere and teach about what it could teach about planet Earth and that the cleanup.
How does that help?
Show me an example of how what you just described has translated on a large scale, not small scale, large scale, impacts an entire species, impacts an entire continent.

(01:24:38):
Where's that connection?
So I I'm still trying to where's the people?
Where are these decision makers?
Yes.
So do you have any?
Is there any example of these type of large scale achievements?
Yes.
I think, just continuing continuing on the the topic of of space as a source of inspiration and as a model, we all know at least of one child who is fond of space and is asking questions about, the cosmos and the the whether there is life out there or whether they want to become an astronaut.

(01:25:21):
So space is really inspiring for children as it has been inspiring virtually every culture, through through history because it's out there, because we don't know about it, because we know there is an influence, because we would like to be there.
So it's about curiosity.

(01:25:42):
Now if you can channel that enthusiasm and that attractiveness of space through the schools as a way of learning, you can teach a lot of things taking advantage of the inspiration of space.
You can get young students interested in learning more.

(01:26:09):
So space as a source of inspiration can have a global impact, and some countries do it very well.
You go to Uruguay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Go ahead.
You go to Uruguay, for example, at least some years ago, the, the matter of astronomy was a compulsory one in all schools.

(01:26:36):
And the government wanted to change that, but, I think the teachers were good enough to keep it going.
And today, you you have great people coming out of Uruguay who were inspired by their early astronomy classes, and they they look at the world, in a different way, in a in a more global way.

(01:26:59):
You were describing earlier your podcast with, with Nicole Stott, who as an astronaut, knows very well what the overview effect is Mhmm.
Looking looking at planet Earth from above and how your view of the world changes, and changes your life.

(01:27:20):
If everyone could have an overview effect of planet Earth, to become a better citizen, to become a more respectful, more, sober, and to become a better decision maker.
Maybe that could be a good benefit of the, overview effect from space.

(01:27:43):
We've also had Frank White on the series who was the person who generated the overview effect.
Yeah.
The the, it's an interesting story, the overview effect.
I think I used it in the one video that we share on our website, which is not a website.
It's a page with just 3 videos.
And what, the challenge that I had with it is in 1968, they go up, they go around the moon.

(01:28:09):
There actually was there, it's more or less said that the astronauts wanted to take a picture of Earth, and they said that, okay.
Let's take it.
But, actually, the transcripts of what happened during there, there was actually a conflict because it was against mission.
It was not mission to take a picture of Earth.
And they had an issue as to if this person was gonna do it, and he did it anyway.

(01:28:31):
They ended up sharing.
And so I ask individuals who are older, you saw this thing, this blue marble.
Did you change the world because you saw the blue marble?
And they said, well, in the beginning, yeah, we thought about it, but we really haven't come forward on those promises.

(01:28:52):
This place, this planet, we're floating alone in the universe.
Nobody else is around us.
We're it's blue.
It's it's healthy.
It's rich.
We have to make sure we take care of it.
The land, the seas.
So I then say, okay.
We've had 570 astronauts who've been into space, approximate number.
Yep.
Is our world that much better?
Or have we moved to a better society, a better culture?

(01:29:16):
Do we treat people better?
Are are we taking care of our animals, our water, our land?
Is the climate being taken care of because these 570 people have been up to space.
Would you say that we have?
I think it's difficult to measure.
So you're saying we could have been worse?

(01:29:37):
If we could measure if we could measure the it.
Yes.
There was an interesting study, in the UK, done by a university about the impact of, astronaut Tim Peake's mission to space.
He flew, I believe, in 2013.
What's the guy's name?
Tim Peek.

(01:29:59):
Okay.
Yeah.
A peak like the peak of a mountain with with an e at the end.
Comparing statistics of, STEM studies, before and after Tim Peake's mission.
I think the the conclusions were were not very, very clear.

(01:30:22):
They probably needed more data or more astronauts to fly, but the phenomenon in the UK was, admirable.
The number of schools, the number of, kids that were touched by that mission.
We see it similarly, in Israel.
They are now preparing for the flight of their second, national astronaut.

(01:30:45):
This this one will be a private citizen.
We're working with, Ramon Foundation.
Yeah.
Ron Levin has been on our program.
Yes.
I know Ron
very well.
Right.
Right.
It's it's a a really, great what they're doing in terms of using space enthusiasm to engage as culture, and they get them to to build experiments, and the best one gets flown, to space.

(01:31:16):
And this touches a lot of young people.
I think, it's difficult to measure and to give you a a number to answer, daily
It's it's not
a g g We're making progress.
Ron, by the way, the first time we went over, sitting in Tel Aviv, sitting in a restaurant, went over what project Moon Hunter was about.

(01:31:40):
He said, we will give you everything we have on file.
It'll be in Hebrew,
but we
will give you all the court, the materials, whatever you need to do what you're doing.
He said, we wanna be a part of this.
We understand it.
Yeah.
And this is this is big.
We have a a construct of 1,000,000,000 hearts and minds.

(01:32:03):
We talk about how we can be involved in 5,200,000 classes around the world because we need 5,200,000, the 5,200,000 schools.
And there are 4,000 universities in the United States.
All these numbers we've looked at, and how do we achieve that?
The challenge comes and still the question is, in my mind, is we went to space.

(01:32:25):
We did the spacey thing.
We still are in space.
Do we feel that the world is that much better?
Are we getting along?
Do we understand each other more?
Are is are are the Russians, the Americans, the Chinese, the and I use them because they're bigger countries, but we can pick all the countries through South Africa, Botswana, Zambia, Nigeria, Ethiopia.
We could pick the Brazils, the Chilies, the Colombians, the we could pick all of them.

(01:32:48):
Are we that much better as a society?
Are are we doing all the things necessary?
And I I I hear that you don't have an answer.
I will give you mine.
I say no.
And I don't think I think it's aspirational to believe that one piece of the over seeing the overview effect will change enough minds fast enough to appreciate our earth because we don't appreciate the things that we have that are right in front of us as human beings.

(01:33:23):
So don't wanna I I could beat you over the head for quite a period of time.
We've hit a lot.
I you've may I've put some notes on my I've made 6 pages of notes, so it's not like I'm not paying attention.
I've got so let's go to the next one.
Planets a, b, c, and others.
What do you mean?
I mean that we live on the best planet on Earth that we could have.

(01:33:46):
Okay.
One astronaut came back and was asked, what did you miss when you were up there?
He said family and nature.
And I agree with him.
On Earth, we have family and nature, and we need to learn to take better care of both, family and nature.

(01:34:09):
And the day we will learn that nature is a member of our family, maybe we will have solved it.
You know, there are now, movements in favor of animal rights because when we kill all those chicken and all those pigs and all those cows so that we can eat, they suffer.

(01:34:33):
Now who who is able to decide what rights they have?
Maybe they should be given some more rights and more respect if they were family members, like pets.
Nobody wants to kill their pet or eat their pet.

(01:34:55):
Are you a vegetarian?
Are you a vegan?
I eat a little bit of everything, and I said a little bit.
Okay.
So, I think that's what what we need to do.
Lee eat a little bit of everything.
So the other planets, David, they're out there to teach us about our own planet.

(01:35:21):
I think that has come across already in in our discussion, and it's good in in engineering to think of option b and option c and learn about, risk management and, foresight, not only in engineering, but also in in policy, political science, and in in legal science, in economics, to look at risks and and risk mitigation so that our planet b is within ourselves so that the solutions in case of big problems are are here.

(01:36:09):
One of the topics I've been teaching, in recent years is crisis management or crisis communication.
In case of a major mishap, in your company, for example, how do you communicate to your stakeholders about a major crisis so that you control the damage and that you keep your stakeholders still on board, whether they are customers or, employees or family members.

(01:36:46):
And I think we need to consider our planet as as a member of our family that, we need to take good care of and we need to get ready, if something happens to it before well ahead and have, good prevention and good mitigation.

(01:37:10):
So what are
what are we so what are we not doing today in crisis management that we should be doing about planet a?
I think there there are many, many things we we can do,
by looking at the whole economy, the the the models, the whole governance, and the effect of what we do on on planet Earth.

(01:37:39):
This should be taught.
People should understand about the consequences of we what we do as individuals and as a society so that we can keep control of, what's happening.
I don't have any miracle solution other than encouraging those who decide to invest more in education and in, mutual understanding and getting people to talk to each other rather than, getting people to criticize each other.

(01:38:21):
Very often when we criticize something, it's because we just don't know it.
We never went there to see what's happening.
We never, listened to that person.
We just assume things, that that, may not be the right assumptions.
So these are all, human learnings and that's one part of the learning.

(01:38:45):
And I think the other part of the learning and the teaching that we need to invest much more in is in science and technology.
Because when we look at the challenges that you have defined at project moonshot Moon Hut.
Sorry.
Okay.
I think scientific research and technology solutions can can help a lot, and they need to be developed by people who need

(01:39:16):
to be well trained.
So I'm always coming back to education and training.
The when you look at the the most popular people in space industry today, by by media, not by achievements, Musk, Bezos, and Branson.
I don't think any of them finished university.

(01:39:41):
And some people, say that, the International Space University is not a real university, because, we're not acknowledged by by governments, and that's by this time, our founders wanted this to be an independent nongovernment organization to remain a neutral forum for discussion and exchange of ideas without the influence of any individual government or company.

(01:40:10):
So the the term, university diploma or university, institution are are relative.
And we all know that some of the Nobel Prizes or some of the best artists or movie makers, they were very bad students because they were already working and thinking, studying other things than what they were asked to do at school.

(01:40:40):
So maybe the model of education, also needs to be, revisited, and, allow for, good talent to develop in what they want to learn and not what we want them to learn.
One of my educational tools for me is the podcast series or the interviews I've done.

(01:41:04):
I've done, I think, close to 2 and a half 1000 to 3000 interviews with some of the most amazing individuals around the world.
That's one way I learned.
I did well in school because I had to, and my wife was brilliant with our children.
She sat down with them when they were very young complaining about how terrible school was, how the teacher didn't know as much as they did because they could see it on the Internet, and the teacher was some had slides that were 6 years old.

(01:41:32):
Yeah.
Or 8 years old.
And my wife would sit him down and say, education is a fraction of what you need to know to live in the world today.
What they teach you there, you have to get through because it's a game, a piece of paper that moves you forward.
So just do what you need to do, but the real world are the things that we're teaching you and the things that you're learning through the experiences we have.

(01:41:54):
So our our approach was very different is that we I would take our kids to we've owned businesses since we've been around since, my wife and I have been together.
And I would take them on a field trip to a warehouse or to a manufacturing plant or to another plant, and they would see things that they wouldn't have seen otherwise.
Yep.
And so education is very different.

(01:42:16):
I think the term education needs to change, overall to to meet these very bad students who, as you say, became Nobel Prize winners.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's true.
So and Why don't
we I think that that takes us to to the, the new ways of of teaching and learning that are much more interactive and much more real world connected, much more, interdisciplinary and, much more, oriented towards problem solving, than, just memorize thing, theoretical concepts.

(01:42:58):
So that's what we're trying to do, and I think the the educators worldwide are are aware of this.
They're working on this.
So what about this last one then?
Discuss what we do with our hands.
What to do with our hands.
So what are what should we be doing or what or how?
Where where do you wanna go with this?
Yes.

(01:43:19):
Well, on this one, I'm, 100% in line with you, David, when you were asking earlier, how can we turn things into action and not just stop at, making studies?
Personally, I've been doing things with my hands since I was a child, whether it is, out in the field or with with a farm or, building or repairing, machines, whether they are bicycles or motorcycles or or just the plumbing.

(01:43:55):
Mhmm.
Building furniture, out of wood.
And this has been something that's without me noticing, has filled many of my free time hours and probably, relaxed and cleaned my mind from the normal study or or work.

(01:44:18):
So what I enjoy is doing, and sometimes the doing is take, what you have done with your children, taking them out and showing them places that you love, where you think other people should also go and see and learn.
And that's something I still do now as a hobby, not exactly a hands on hobby where you build things, but what I enjoy and I hope to still do, after my term at International Space University is take groups of, enthusiastic young people who want to learn, take them on a trip to a place where they would probably not go on their own.

(01:45:09):
And this place is, in the middle of the Amazon rainforest between Venezuela and Brazil on the Atlantic coast.
It's a place that is still part of Europe.
It's called French Guiana Mhmm.
Where you can discover the melting pot of cultures, the extreme bio extreme richness of the biodiversity in the Amazonian rainforest.

(01:45:42):
It's one of the best preserved sites of the Amazonian rainforest because it has been almost not exploited by agriculture or or mining.
Almost no.
And just in the middle of it, you have a high-tech civilian launch site for, satellites, spaceport for European rockets that launch telecom and earth observation and navigation and exploration satellites.

(01:46:18):
By the way, the, the famous, James Webb Space Telescope, very well known in the United States, a major NASA mission will be launched, we hope, before the end of this year out of French Guiana onboard, Ariane 5 Rocket.
The teams are going down there very soon.

(01:46:40):
And this is the
replacement for the Hubble?
It is the the second Hubble.
Exactly.
Yes.
James Webb Space Telescope that will, bring us even more knowledge, compared to to Hubble.
So that's a place on Earth that I think many people should see so that they are impacted by the overview effect even if we don't call it that of, the richness of nature and the richness of ethnical and cultural melting pot that lives there.

(01:47:20):
Obviously, COVID has also had an impact there, so we're not sure what the next trip will exactly look like, but, there will be a next trip.
And, I take groups of some 15 people there once or twice per year.
And they come back really impressed.
Some of them even, apply for jobs, and, eventually, they they go and and spend a few years working there.

(01:47:48):
So that's a type of hands with my hands project that I can see the results.
Mhmm.
But, if you allow me to maybe, give you a couple of concluding, thoughts, David.
Throughout my career, some of the most challenging jobs have been in education, but clearly the most rewarding job that I can say my hands had something to do with it is when I see the faces of our graduating, students.

(01:48:28):
On the day of graduation, you don't need to speak much.
You don't need to hear much.
Just watch people's, faces and what they say to each other and how they they hug each other.
They don't want to to leave, and they will stay in touch.

(01:48:50):
So that's the result of, hard work by, many people, professors and staff and the administration and their sponsors, but it's the most rewarding feeling.
And those, alumni, you know this because you have children and you have, worked with teachers.

(01:49:13):
For a teacher, the most rewarding result of their work is when a former student comes back after maybe some years and says, thanks to you, I'm I'm now here.

(01:49:35):
So maybe maybe thanks to us, the planet, in a few years will be here.
Yeah.
And it will tell us thank you, for taking good care of me.
We, yes, thank you.
We are we are very optimistic of the the work that we're doing.

(01:49:56):
We believe that we'll make the changes, and, we we will be here.
There will be challenges ahead.
I did teach at NYU.
So as I mentioned, I had Yes.
2 different classes.
Many students took me twice.
So but I have 309 students over those 12 years.
I'm still in touch with probably over 250 of them.
Oh, okay.

(01:50:18):
I I I appreciate that.
And, yes, thank you for taking the time to talk, with us today, to talk to me today, and I've got some notes of things that we might be able to change, do differently to make sure that we keep on keep on moving the initiatives that we've put forward forward.
And I'd like to thank all of you out there for taking the time in your day to listen in.

(01:50:45):
I do hope that you learn something today that will make a difference in your life and the lives of others.
Project Moon Hut Foundation is where we look to establish once again a box of the roof and a door on the moon to the accelerate development of an earth and space based ecosystem.
Then to take those endeavors, the paradigm shifting thinking, the innovations, and turn them back on earth to improve how we live on earth for all species.

(01:51:09):
With that said, Juan, I wanna thank you.
Is is there one best way to connect with you?
LinkedIn.
Oh, okay.
And so just you could spell your name so that everybody has it accordingly and they can look you up in that way.

(01:51:30):
Yes.
I will spell my name and, I will do it in a way that will help, everyone to practice the international alphabet Okay.
Which as a as a former pilot, I I like the international alphabet because, it avoids mistakes, when you have to communicate over radio.

(01:51:51):
You cannot allow mistakes to happen when, the pilot is talking to the control tower.
Right?
So, my name is Juliet uniform alpha November, new word delta echo new word delta alpha Lima Mike alpha uniform.

(01:52:17):
And I am, an admiring user of LinkedIn because it's very powerful.
It's serious.
You can have many connections.
You never lose them because they are always there.
And what I appreciate most of LinkedIn is that when a student comes to me and says, I would like to do an inter an internship here or there, or I would like to get in touch with an expert or such a company or such a project.

(01:52:48):
I take my phone, and I immediately connect that student with the person I know in this or that organization just by searching very quickly, and then I introduce them to each other without having to do a long introduction or explaining, the lives of each of them.

(01:53:09):
It's all on LinkedIn.
So I just say, hello so and so.
Please meet so and so.
There's something of mutual interest you should discuss.
Thank you.
So the introduction is done, and I hope that doesn't consume too much energy, David, and doesn't, pollute pollute the atmosphere too much even if I'm using the Internet.

(01:53:30):
We can't reduce ourselves to the point to turn what we have what we've created around.
So it's I I'm thinking have you seen the movie with Tom Cruise where he's on the racetrack and there's the smoke and he has to decide, does he break, or does he go through it?
Thunderbolt or something?
I don't remember.
No.
I haven't.

(01:53:51):
There's a you've see you've seen the clip, and what he does is he shoots through it.
It doesn't break.
We have to shoot through it.
So that was a a great end, with the LinkedIn.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
To to get a con connect with me, you can reach me at david@moonhut.org.
As I did mention, there are 3 videos in the top right hand corner.
Number 1 is a presentation that was given in, where was number in Macadonia.

(01:54:18):
2nd one is in Luxembourg, and the third one is what we're working on on a large scale.
We have a moon up project.
We have a moon up lever, and we have a moon up purpose.
And we describe many of the things that we're doing.
We have individuals all around the world who are participating.
Number 2, you can connect with us on Twitter, at project moon hut.
You can connect with us on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on Instagram.

(01:54:41):
So we're there.
And that said, I'm David Goldsmith, and thank you for listening.
Hello, everybody.
This is David Goldsmith, and welcome to the age of infinite.
Throughout history, humans have made significant transformational changes, which in turn have led to the renaming of periods into ages.
You've personally lived you personally have just experienced the information age and what a ride it's been.
Now consider that you might now, right now, be living through another transitional period into a new age, the age of infinite.
An age that is not defined by scarcity and abundance, but by a redefined lifestyle consisting of infinite possibilities and resources, which will be made possible through a new construct where the moon and earth, or as we call it, Mearth, will create a new ecosystem, an economic system to take us in to an infinite future.
The ingredients for an amazing sci fi story that has come to life in your lifetime.
The podcast is brought to you by the Project Moon Hut Foundation, where we look to establish a box with a roof and a door on the moon, a moon hut, we were named by NASA, through the accelerated development of an Earth and space based ecosystem.
Then to use the endeavors, the paradigm shifting thinking, and the innovations and turn them back on earth to improve how we live on earth for all species.
Today, we're going to be exploring another fantastic topic.
The choice for planet b is in our hands.
With us is Juan Dedel Dedelmao, who is, well hi.
How are you, Juan?
Hello, David.
Good to hear you, and excellent pronunciation.
So we we actually I worked on making sure or we worked on making sure that I said his name properly.
And Juan is is going to be in the next week.
He's gonna be ending his term as the president of the International Space University out of Strasbourg in France.
He's, studied mechanical engineering and business administration, and while the university's taught interdisciplinary studies.
I'm adding one point right now, and we haven't had it in the other interviews only because in the past month, 3 people made comments about the interviews, which surprised me.
So that you know, this is the process that we have to to create a podcast.
We find a guest.
We've turned down over 300 people over the years that I've done podcasting in this, series.
We've had guests that just didn't work out.
We then work on together.
The 2 of us create a title for the program, and that could take up to 2 hours to create just the title.
I don't know what we're going to be talking about.
I personally don't know.
I have never seen the outline that Juwan is going to be giving us today.
I've done no research, no homework.
As a matter of fact, I even show Juwan that I have a piece and paper in front of me that's completely blank except for the title and his name on it.
And during a typical program, I take anywhere from 10 to 20 pages of notes.
So with that said, Juwan, do you have an outline for us?
Yes, David.
Okay.
I like, I like outlines because, they help us organize our ideas and our conversation.
And I think the best outline is, the title that you just gave to our chat today.
I like when you said that we are going to discuss the choice for planet b is in our hands.
So here is my outline.
Just look at the words we are using in this title, the choice.
That means that, we will talk about how to make choices and who makes them and how to make the right choices.
So we will be talking about decision making.
Yep.
Then the title goes on and says the choice for planet b.
So I would like to talk about planets a, b, and c and others.
And then third part of the title is the choice for planet b is in our hands.
So what this is telling us is that we want to discuss what to do with our hands.
Once we have made the choice, how do we make it happen?
So I like personally decision making Mhmm.
But then I like building and making those decisions a reality.
So that's it.
That's the outline, David.
If you like
That works that works for me.
It it follows exactly the title, so I will I won't get too lost on this.
So, Lynn, let's start with, number 1, the the choices, how, who, when decisions decision making.
Where where are we going with this?
I think we can go very far, and, I like to share my own experiences and and my own learnings in life.
And, since you are also an experienced person in life, even if you're a slightly younger than me, I would imagine.
Well Because I I did see you.
I did I did see you on a video.
We we also don't have our video on at all during this.
So, do you wanna how old are you?
My parents tell me I was born in 1958, and I have always believed them.
So that makes, 63.
Okay.
So I was born in 1963, and I am 58.
So, yes, you are older than me.
Good.
That's an interesting combination.
5863.
Yes.
You were born in 63 and are now 58.
Yep.
And I am the reverse.
I'm born in 58.
I'm now 60 63.
Right.
But, back to your choice to your question about choices.
What I've learned in life is that you can always think back and ask yourself, did I make the right choice?
And what I have learned is that whatever choice you make, you better listen to people first and then make your own conclusion and don't follow people too easily.
I have learned the hard way, to sometimes go too fast in in decisions or even go too fast in coming to conclusions in in a discussion or in a meeting or in a project.
So in summary, what I have learned is that it pays off to take the time to listen, to discuss, and to listen again, and to spend more time listening than in speaking.
That helps making the right choice.
I have also learned that if you're a good listener, you gain people's respect and they come back to you to ask you for more.
Even if you don't speak all the time in meetings, people do come to you because they have heard you saying the right thing at the right time, which maybe very little things, but I would say more towards the end of the discussion.
I may sound like a priest, but, No.
No.
You're That's my
my learning.
Well, it the that's I let how do I say this nicely?
I hear what you're saying, and yet these these are not the typical approaches that people use.
So how do you do these activities?
I think it's all not all my merit because when I was a child, I remember I was very shy.
Whenever I had to speak in class or in public, my heart would go, at high rate.
And my parents, they registered me in theater classes, and then that helped because you have to learn how to speak and how to Yeah.
Have a bunch of people in front of you.
But, still after the theater experience, I still needed more more rehearsals and more, public speaking, until I attended a university called International Space University where we were really encouraged and, and coached to speak and to convey our ideas.
So you went you went to the International Space University when?
As a young engineer with, only 3 or 4 years of professional experience in my late twenties, I was already working in the space industry, but obviously in in a very narrow field.
And attending the International Space University taught me a lot of things, including this, making choices and, listening in meetings and, letting people express their ideas.
One of the very interesting components of of those, summer schools is what the ISU calls team projects where a group of 25 to to 40 young graduates and and professionals, they are confronted with a challenging topic.
For example, how will you reduce the level of, c o two of, carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which as we know today is is the main factor for global warming and for all these extreme, weather events that we see.
So we give to a group of people a topic, and we ask them, how can space technology and space research contribute to a future solution that will help us reduce the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere?
And then, the group is given entire freedom to go in the direction they want.
The the boundary conditions are you have one day at the end of the course where you will have a bunch of, senior people listening to your final presentation and reading your report and your executive summary.
And what happens in in the middle, in the 2 months roughly of, work is up to the class itself to decide.
So we're coming again to the choice is in our hands.
So here you see a group of, about 30 young people, but some of them not so young.
We had, in some in their early twenties, some in their early forties, some with, significant professional experience, some knew about space, others had almost never heard about space, but the topic has to do with space because that's the name of the university.
And, the first meetings are brainstorming type.
So for example, what I learned about brainstorming is that everyone needs to accept that they are in brainstorming mode before they go into production mode or into writing mode or into, making choices.
So prior to making a choice, it's good to be in brainstorming mode.
And if you are a group of 30 intelligent people, how do you get organized if you have 0 hierarchy, if you have 0 rules?
Do you decide to choose a leader or a moderator?
Do you decide to have minutes of meetings?
Do you decide to give the floor to everyone, or do you just let those who speak loudest, be the the leaders?
And what happens to those who never speak, but who might have great ideas if they come from China, for example, where the culture is completely different?
If you're not asked by your manager in China to speak, you don't speak even if you have the best idea in the group.
So how do you bring a group of people from China, from Russia, from the United States, from Europe, from South Africa, from India.
In all these countries, there are obviously brilliant people, but they have completely different cultures and ways of taking decisions, ways of working in in teams.
So that's what I learned, and that's what brought me to the listening mode.
And whenever needed, we would have smaller breakout conversations.
And I enjoyed sitting down with the Japanese or sitting down with the Chinese.
Even if it was during lunch, you didn't need to schedule an appointment because it was a live in experience.
You would really live with your classmates and with the professors and experts.
We would share most of the meals.
And then slowly you get to open up with a person from an Asian culture who maybe never, left, her or his country.
And just with a bit of time, they really tell you what they know.
And then you discover that you have a gem in the team who can really contribute greatly and, become, at the end of the process, become even a speaker in the final presentation.
Or, just give the best of, of her or his skills in, in video making or in graphic design or in computing and simulating.
So you may ask me, David, why did I choose the topic of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere?
Yeah.
I was going to get to that.
I was just I was listening.
Yes.
Okay.
Well, I will be transparent to you.
Last evening, I was reading the, summary of a very interesting work that was published just 1 week ago on climate change.
This is, an international group called the IPCC.
For those who have never heard of this acronym, it means intergovernmental panel on climate change.
This is a group of, several dozens of, scientists from all over the world who have been working together mostly remotely.
Since several years, they have produced a different series of their publications, and the last series was published last week.
Their report is online.
And on the first page, it says, this report is still being edited and, copy, edited, meaning that there's there's still a small improvement, but the report is there.
And the document, in the collection of reports that I read is just the executive summary that they call, I think, for for decision makers or something like this.
So I started with that at about 40 pages long, and it shows it showed me that planet Earth is getting warmer because we have made it warmer.
It's very clear.
It also tells us that some of the processes, for example, the ice cap melting are going to take centuries to reverse them.
Even if we would stop now, all the emissions of greenhouse gases, if we would just stop now, the ice melting would still continue Oh, yes.
For many, many years.
It's gonna continue for quite some time.
There's it's already it's already in you can't well, it's like the COVID curves.
Just you can't stop it in the middle of going up.
You have to it's gotta find a point in which it starts going down.
Right.
Right.
So we are already engaged in in a very long term process, and ice melting means sea level rise.
And, this document is very, very clearly showing that, which part of the world will see higher, sea level rises.
It can go up to several meters in in a few decades.
So we will be seeing major changes.
It also explains that, the extreme weather phenomena that we see these years in terms of floods and, even bushfires and and high temperatures and storms, they are a clear consequence of human activity and of, the, mainly the the greenhouse gases and the carbon dioxide that as we all know comes from burning, fuel, fossil fossil fuel primarily.
So here we need good people who can make the right choices on, our planet.
I call it planet Earth for the time being.
I'm not using letter letter b.
I pulled out the report, at least what I'm looking at.
It's 414 pages.
Yes.
Yes.
I think that's the the full one.
Yes.
Okay.
But, there must be somewhere on the same website, the, the shorter one.
I think they call it for for decision makers or for governments.
Okay.
Cool.
I'll look.
I just pulled it up to make sure I didn't forget it.
Yes.
Yes.
And I think there will be videos, for those who prefer to learn about this report without having to read the whole thing.
I'm I'm sure they they will be good.
So this is, under the umbrella of the United Nations.
As I said, a very respected group of of scientists, and, and they are very cautious in the way they describe things.
Every sentence, every conclusion, they give a level of probability to it.
So it's, really well done.
And when you see who signs it, you have to say to yourself, yeah, these people know what they're talking about.
It's it's not just a small lab in a in a remote place that that has come up with a new theory.
It's it's really solid science.
So that's our planet and, for me, especially since I'm in the world of education, we need well prepared people to take us, to the planet that we want or to keep us in the planet that we want.
I'm gonna break in a little bit because you said you chose the reduced level of CO 2 in the atmosphere for the students as an example, that we're talking about decision making.
My first question there are others, but my first question is, do they come up with answers that actually work?
They work in 3 phases in most of these projects.
The first one, as we were discussing, is brainstorming, listening to experts.
So there are first a series of core lectures or seminars covering different aspects of space sciences and atmospheric sciences, but also covering the legal aspects, international collaboration, the economics of the whole thing, the engineering solutions.
And the second phase is deciding on what do they want to put in the report that should be guided by, a mission statement.
So they define their own final objective.
What do they want their report to do?
Should it be a road map for government officials or for scientists around the world on what to do next?
Or should it be the proposal for a new international agency that will take care of climate change?
Or will it be, an international fundraising effort to really get resources, to investigate what is important to know in the area of climate change, or is it a combination of everything?
And to answer your question, David, those reports, they came up they come up with, good ideas very often that are picked up by decision makers.
And sometimes those ideas they come too early, but eventually, they make it into reality.
There have been, for example, a space a national space agency that was set up based on one of those reports, or there have been companies or, competitive, research grants that have been obtained as a consequence of the initial team project reports.
So the outcome is manifold, but what does happen systematically is that at least some of the, alumni, they take their project and then they present it at an international conference.
They adapt it or they make it into a PhD thesis.
So the ideas out of these projects, they they have their own life, afterwards.
The reason I ask is, very specific because I find a lot there are a lot of think tanks, groups who work on projects all the time.
And if we were to look around the world, climate change, if we use just that category, and I don't know if you know they're in project moon, we have 6 mega challenges.
In my opinion, the 17 SDGs were not completely thought through, for a variety of reasons not to pick on them, but there's even grammatical structure.
The first 2 are no hunger, no poverty.
But then we have gender equality, and that's cultural.
There's so many there's so many different challenges with the way they're structured.
So we have 6, and one of them is climate change.
And I in my work, I I talk to people like you all the time as we're developing project moon.
And I had this individual on the phone the other day, and he said very bright guy, does a lot of research, does his homework, and he I listened to him describe how he was going to solve this version of climate change.
And I said, so you're going to close down in 5 years?
Because he said, if we don't get this done in 5 years, it's gonna be terrible.
And I said, so so in 5 years, you'll close down your business.
Your operations, your foundation, you'll close it down because you didn't achieve it.
He said, what do you mean?
I said, look.
You tell me 5 years that the Earth has, and you have a plan to solve it.
That plan has to account for 7,500,000,000 people, 50,000,000 species, and you have the answer.
So if we followed it in 5 years, we'd be done.
And he looks at me.
We're on Zoom.
And I said, don't you get it?
If you have a plan plans for after 5 years, then your plans don't work.
And he puts his hands between his his head between his hands, and he says, we have plans for 5 years, 10 years, and 15 years.
I said, how can you have a 10 15 year plan if 5 years?
He said, well, we account for other people to do things.
I said, then that's not a plan to solve it.
That's a plan to do what you want to do, but it's not solving the challenge of climate change in 5 years.
So the reason I'm asking the question is, you give people an assignment.
They get to choose that assignment.
Yet to me, I don't see climate change stopping.
So tons of people around the world have given these projects to people.
Climate change has not stopped, neither has mass extinction.
We have 500 new species on the endangered species list out of, out of Australia because of the forest fires last years where 2,000,000,000 animals were killed.
We are not stopping mass extinction.
So if all of these people, and I'm not picking on you, I'm using it for decision making, What are we doing wrong if these are the methodologies we use and we're not solving them?
Yes.
Well, I think we we can take this back to the vision of the of the founders of the International Space University.
You know, this was in during the Cold War where some countries hardly talk to each other.
And, their vision was if humanity needs to go to space or also if humanity wants to take advantage of the immense opportunities of space down here on Earth, We need a university that trains those decision makers, who will take humanity to space in a peaceful way, in an inclusive way.
We need to train the future decision makers around the world, whether they are in policy, in economics, in science, in entrepreneurship.
We would like them to share the same values of international collaboration, of peaceful development, and exploration.
And we want them to speak the same language in a virtual way.
In other words, we want them to be friends.
So that word was used in the cold war, And I happen to be one of the early students of that visionary university sharing a class with, all these diverse people.
And the objective is that whatever decisions are made, they take into account what others are doing and, that the consequences of those decisions are as much as possible beneficial to the large populations and not just beneficial to a few and then detrimental to others.
So this spirit of inclusiveness, of mutual respect, of discussing and learning together is still today our DNA.
No matter what decisions are made or who makes them, it is a state of mind that we're building, and this has been going on for 30 years now.
There are over 5,000 alumni.
Most of them are working in the space, field, about 80%.
And, what's interesting today to see is that you can go virtually to any organization that is space related, whether it's a space agency or a company or a research lab.
For example, you look for a partner or a or a customer or a supplier or you look for a politician who should listen to your idea, wherever you go, you will most probably find someone who has studied at this university.
So I think the advantage of the space community is that it's still very small compared, for example, with aeronautics or with defense.
And this makes it possible that with only 5,000 alumni, you have 1 or 2 in in every space related organization.
So you can go and talk to someone who has been to the same place even if it's not the same promotion, and then immediately you connect, and it makes the conversation much easier.
I shared with you before we got on the call that in Project Moon Hut, 70, 80% of the people that we have are not space people.
And I and I also shared that to me, space is geography.
It's not an industry.
We don't look for people who have that background because we're looking for individuals who look at the world differently.
It doesn't matter what discipline they're in.
And I was in Luxembourg.
I spoke I've shared this before.
I don't know if I shared it with you.
Spoke in Luxembourg, and I was asked to speak at their space conference.
There were 500 people who showed up at the at this event the year before, and they said, David, we'd like you to speak at this event.
And I said, that'd be great.
I'd love to speak for you.
What do you want me to talk about?
And we came up with a topic.
And it's part of a broader conference.
They also have an artificial intelligence one and a Fintech one or some others.
I don't remember off top of my head.
I I know there's an AI side.
And I show up into the room that's supposed to have these 500 people, and it's post the year that they are 1 the year before, I think that's when they lost the money from Planet Resources.
I think they put an 18,000,000.
So the country lost the 18,000,000.
I don't that's an exact number.
Don't quote me on it.
And there were less than 75 people in the room.
And there was an excitement the year before because they thought of opportunity and things going well.
And here I am in this room, and I said, look.
It's it's the 50th anniversary of the space flight, and we're no further than we were.
I mean, we've done a lot in in lower orbit.
We've sent probes out, and we've seen.
We haven't achieved the dreams that were talked about 40 years ago.
So going back to this decision making, is this decision making model where someone comes in, they're asked the question, they have to learn, and that's leadership and that's management and that's getting together and doing.
Is that the approach that we need to solve 2 challenges?
1, solving for Earth, and 2, achieving the desired outcomes that individuals have to reach further than Earth.
Yes.
I think, we can look at the answer from the following point of view.
You mentioned Luxembourg.
You could go to the first space company that was set up in Luxembourg that that was SES, satellite communications.
I lived there for a bit.
So yes.
Right.
And, you go to to Betsdorf and you ask around, can you introduce me to to some ISU alumni?
Immediately everyone will say yes, this or that.
Because not only they are alumni, but they they have lunch together regularly.
So they know who's who.
And then you talk to the managers and ask them, why are you hiring ISU alumni?
And they will tell you because they are different.
Because they come with a more open mind.
They are able to tackle complex topics.
They know how to talk to people and how to listen.
They are not afraid of sitting down with someone who may have a completely different background.
Because when you have a different background, you also have a different way of tackling problems and solving problems and taking decisions.
So they've been through this experience and they make them this experience make makes them better employees.
So SES is just one example of a company that comes to ISU No.
I I I understand that.
Mine is mine is mine is a bigger question as you talked about c o two and solving for the atmosphere.
If if this model works, the model you're talking about of leaders of of education or group dynamics where you give them, they brainstorm, they come up with, they deliver, then does do you have a group of people right now who have solved the reducing the level of c o two in the atmosphere, and is that something that will do it in a in a near term solution?
Is there an answer sitting with a group of students right now?
Not a paper, not a thesis, not a new group, not a new agency.
Is there a paper right now that solves this for 7,500,000,000 people and 50,000,000 species where humans are just one of them?
I wish there was.
I wish there was.
And, probably, I'm not the the best person to answer because I am by far not a climatologist or an expert in in, in these things.
But, what I'm interested in also in sharing with you, David, is is the process and the way we might find the solution you're asking for by collaboration, but also by bringing in, non space players.
And that's something that, we've been discussing earlier today with, my successor, the presidency of ISU, professor Pascal Ehrenfreund.
One of, her priorities is to bring closer together the the space and what we call the non space.
And we believe that precisely this challenge of the the c o two levels in the atmosphere can be very attractive to researchers, but also to investors.
Can you imagine if a company has a system that you can install in places and, just transform c o two into something else that that can be used.
That doesn't exist yet, but maybe we can find it, together by attracting investors and decision makers from completely different areas and and different countries.
That that's exactly what we're doing.
We don't we don't look first people who are space people.
Meaning, I and I I I shared this with Nicole Stott on the last interview is we've just brought on price order as Coopers, Deloitte, and PWC.
And in each room of the rooms, they saw our videos for project moon up.
They see what we're looking to do.
Our desired outcome is to improve life on earth for all species.
We're addressing some of these challenges, including climate change.
And they said they were more or less fighting who could be on the call.
And out of 18 or 16 people, only one of them was related or a ver a space person, if we wanna call that, because we didn't need space people.
Project Moon Hut needs tax people.
And the, the the person we have an individual for the past 3 years who does the cleaning up.
We don't edit our podcast.
We only cut front and back and sound balance.
Dor Avi, Aviran out of Israel from binary options.
He is not a space person.
The individuals we look for are people who are great at what they do, and then we give them the challenge of what we're working on.
So I'm really interested in the outcomes.
If we've 30 years, and let's not pick a let's look at concepts, not Space University.
The concept of educating individuals to solve the major challenges we have on Earth.
Let's use global.
It doesn't matter where they are, where they work, where they live.
We need a better, faster solution methodology.
It's not about investment to me.
Yeah.
Sure.
We need to make some more money.
But if in fact, the data that's coming back is true, that there is expected to be about 50 to 60 degrees c across the Mediterranean, which goes through Tunisia, which goes all the way to Bangladesh, India, through Hong Kong, and the and that region comes all the way around to Texas and Mexico.
If we have 50 to 60 degrees c, we're gonna have max acid exodus.
We're gonna have civil, political, environmental unrest.
We're going to have challenges so enormous that that we won't be able to solve these challenges in that time frame be in that later time because we'll be so overwhelmed with the other challenges.
So how do we take your model, not not International Space University.
I'm talking about your model that you're using, that Juhan's using.
How do we take that model and make it so that we actually solve the challenges?
I think we have a good example with the the International Medical Community and COVID.
COVID is one of these challenges, global challenges that, doesn't know about, political borders or climate zones or or time zones.
And I think we've had a good example of the medical communities all over the world really exchanging data very quickly so that they could learn from each other, their experiences in mitigating, in protecting the populations, but also in the development of of vaccines.
I think we have broken the record of how much time it takes.
Yeah.
I think I think before it was 4 or 5 years, and now we brought that down.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
So I think that model, can be a good start for humanity tackling other challenges.
We might have addressed one challenge, and that is the challenge of creating a vaccine.
Yet when it was this the construct of human nature was not part of the science.
So for example, they didn't say, what if there was an individual in authority who discounted the fact that COVID didn't exist and created a movement of millions and millions, hundreds of millions of people around the world would fall fault find fault in this development.
So that side of the equation was scientifically addressed, but, yeah, human nature not addressed.
And I think the same thing happens traditionally with with climate change.
We're having the same exact conversation.
We have individuals who say we need to protect the environment, and then they have their air con on, every time the the guy who invented Siri say has done the calculations.
Every time you post one image on Facebook, Instagram, or any of these, you use enough power to be able to get the image through the wires, through the servers, and get it to post it, not including storage, to power 3 20 watt light bulbs for 1 hour.
So if someone posts 10 times in a day, they could have had 10 hours of just 10 images.
10 hours of 3 light bulbs running the entire time.
So on one hand, don't eat meat.
On the other hand, go tell the Kazakhstanis that it's their culture.
Go tell the Texans they can't have meat.
So maybe while the COVID has part of the solution, we're still missing the bio the human nature side of it, which is not being addressed as appropriately.
Yes.
Yes.
I want to be an optimist, David.
And,
I I and I I I am an optimist, but I go negative often to solve the positive.
That's how I you've gotta you've gotta look around and say well, let's say how about being a realist.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I want to be an optimist because I do see progress in society, and in industry.
I see people changing behaviors.
Today's younger generations, at least in the countries where I am evolving, think differently from my youth years.
The young people of today are much more aware of, how their behavior can have an impact on climate change for example.
They are thinking twice before taking an airplane.
I never heard this when I was a young person.
They are thinking twice before buying a car not only because it's expensive but also because it pollutes.
I see in industry, if you go to a fast food place the covers of the cups today they are made of paper.
No no more plastic.
So I think, things are changing because of science, because of, social pressure, because of, political correctness.
It's it's all a combination.
So I I still want to be an optimist.
I I Maybe we're not going fast enough.
No.
No.
We're not going fast enough.
And I again, here I come with being pragmatic, being, to to looking with my own eyes.
I have lived in Hong Kong for 10 years.
I spent a lot of time in all of the from Japan all the way through Cambodia, Malaysia, Singapore, in China.
The 76, I don't know the exact number.
Again, don't quote me.
Percent of the world's population lives there.
And they are consuming at an unbelievable pace.
In China, they built a dump that was supposed to last 50 years.
It lasted 25 years.
Again, it's I don't know if you spent the time in these type of countries.
Not again.
But I don't know if you spent the time in these countries.
But consumerism is still huge.
Unfortunately.
And it's I'm not gonna say it's unsustainable.
That's a bad way to look at it.
I would say that the solutions we're using and the hope that we're that's being expressed as you just said it, This new generation.
What did the new you know, you you probably remember you weren't born in the states, but there was something called the sixties seventies, and it was peace, love, rock and roll, save the world, become amazing.
Who did these people become?
Who who did they grow up to be?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They became the hedge fund managers, the mega mansion people, the flying all over the world people.
I I Yes.
We can't put our my belief is we can't put our hope in a generation that doesn't have the influence in my economic power to be able to make those changes.
Yes.
And and, you will allow me to take this back to education.
Sure.
I'd love to.
Absolutely.
Education and training, which is in my opinion at at the basis of all this.
And I have learned, for example, through more recent, team project of our students here in Strasbourg who were looking at, plastic in the oceans.
I was an ignorant in this field.
I had always thought, yeah, all these plastic islands on the oceans, that's because the people on the ships, they they dump everything in the water.
Oh, really?
Okay.
My students taught me that most of it comes through, all the, the rivers and everything that the urban areas dump in the sea.
Yeah.
And that's where the plastic comes from.
So that is much closer now to the behavior of each individual citizen and what you dump and how you do it, but also the behavior of the, authorities and, the recycling or the non recycling organizations and companies who, dump things, on the rivers and the and the seas.
So education, and I see this again in the in the younger generation, of people, they know that, the textile industry, and all the tissues and all the old clothes that we throw away that is also very polluting.
So if you'd never were told this, you just continue buying and you continue consuming as you were saying.
So but if you know the consequences and someone gives you the numbers and if the young kids at school are really really, learning about this, they will be different citizens.
I don't think that's happening.
Okay.
I just don't even But, you you just
agree you agree education is important, though.
I no.
I definitely but depends on what we define as education.
The the you use a great example, solid waste runoff, which is a plastics into the ocean, and it is a big, big it is a challenge.
However, if I was to tell you with everything you've just described and the and plastics are a big topic.
We do consume a lot of plastics, and they don't break down, and they sit in ocean floors, and they clog up ways, and they make it difficult for animals.
The United States, every day, dumps 12,000,000,000 gallons of municipal waste into the oceans because of old pipes, because of structure, because of all sorts of things, which 12,000,000,000.
If we were then go and the if we were to then go to Europe with 720,000,000 people, they're all inclusive, there's more dumped than the United States, but let's assume that's 12,000,000,000.
And then if we just took 2 countries, I'm not picking on them, we'll take China and India.
They dump let's just use 12,000,000,000.
That's approximately 50,000,000,000 gallons of solid way, municipal waste.
That's not including radioactive waste, agricultural waste, industrial waste, mining waste, and several other ways.
And to give you an example what municipal waste would look like is imagine you had a cup in front of you, and it's has water in it.
Unless you use filtration, you probably have particles of microplastics in it.
You already have it.
Our body drinks them all the time.
And then you have another cup next to you, and it's municipal waste, but it looks like a deep dark chocolate coffee.
And that's just garbage coming out of our our cities.
If you had to take a scientific guess, which is gonna be more destructive to the oceans?
The plastic or the poisons, the pesticides, the things that come out in those rivers, not unlike what's happening right now in Hungary.
Or is it is it Hungary?
Yeah.
With these, the the sludge, the sludge, which is covering their, our turkey.
It's covering their waterways.
Right.
Which is more dangerous?
And yet, I mean, maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not gonna drink that coffee.
Right.
And you're not going to smoke that smoke that cigarette that has 70, cancer, triggering products in it because you know it.
So I think what you just said should be said in all schools.
It should.
Yeah.
By all teachers.
We have t we have people we have people But
it is not.
But it is not done.
It is not done.
And and at the same time, we have people on our team who when we do our our calls, they're smoking.
I've actually said to myself, I wonder when I meet them what they will smell like.
Mhmm.
Because they smoke.
There are a lot of people around the world who smoke.
Yep.
Even knowing Yeah.
So so, again, I'm coming back to this.
We're talking about choices here.
My question to you is as an educator, not as I International Space University, as an educator, we're missing something.
I mean, I I hear what you're saying.
We're missing something.
And that secret sauce is that we're not looking for reports.
We're not looking we're looking for solutions and people to make them happen.
How do we get from making the right choices to making that happen?
With the right people.
Okay.
So so how if you're guiding me, we're building project Moon Hut.
We've got teams of people working on all sorts of things.
How would I find how would we find the right people?
Silence means we're thinking.
And, we when we look at universities, I think very few universities struggle with, having sufficient good candidates who want to go and study there.
So I think the interest in learning is there, the bright minds are there, but not all candidates have the the means to study what they want because they don't get the visa to go to where they want to go Yeah.
Or they don't have the wealthy parents or the wealthy government who pays for their tuition.
So if we really want to train the right decision makers who will transform those ideas into action, I think we need to invest more in education.
And, we should maybe, find a way where, every company has a foundation for, or a charity.
Not only the big the big, ones, but, there's a a sort of a tax that is used on on education.
I know this sounds very, very socialist and
I I actually I'm old
fashioned, but Don't
don't Yep.
It doesn't it doesn't sound that way.
I will add my commentary to it, then you tell me how to get around it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So so we we have a tax on education.
People that they they have to find a, there's a a foundational component of what they do, and it makes or it helps universities to become stronger.
Yes.
And more inclusive.
Okay.
So before I get to the universities, can this is a personal question.
So try to and I'm saying it intentionally is a personal question because I'd like a real answer.
Well, I let me ask you another question first.
Sorry.
It doesn't mean you have to have children, but I'm asking a question.
3.
Okay.
You have 3 children.
Alright.
And I I ask that because timelines change with people.
In your timeline looking at the challenges of the world, you can pick any category you want.
What is your timeline that if we don't solve what's going on, we're gonna have a we're gonna have a lot of challenges.
Now it means you could be saying, well, but we'll solve it because that's the way I'm thinking.
But what's your timeline?
What's the date?
This, I'm discussing this sometimes with our youngest who is 22.
Okay.
When he was a young boy, his primary school teacher would tell them about the challenge of water and the scarcity.
Mhmm.
And the fact that we may end up, with insufficient drinking water.
And, he he had nightmares about this.
Because the teacher was teaching us.
So the teacher got got her point across.
And now today, this same son is studying physics, and he's concerned about the challenges we are discussing today with you, David.
Yeah.
He's concerned.
And, next time I will ask him about the timeline, I think he will give a better answer than I could ever just, just guess here.
I'll give you the, the astronaut answer about, the question, when are we going to have people on Mars?
This is a question that, an Italian astronaut has been asking himself to those who know.
And every time he asked a question, no matter what year it is, he gets the same answer in 25 years.
Now when are we when are we going to solve the planet Earth, challenges?
Well, we need, better brains than mine to give you a a good answer.
Well, the the reason there's a there's a study, and I I I've again, I'm hoping I'm not screwing it up completely.
I'm gonna try to look it up very quickly to see if I can find it.
But I'll so I'll ask you a question to to start that with is, do you know how long behaviorally it takes in terms of the number of meals someone misses before and days that would take, assuming 3 per day, that an individual do something they'd never thought they'd do before.
They'd steal.
They'd kill.
They do.
Do you know how many days the behaviorally have come up with that people believe is the the end of the rope?
Well, if I had no food to bring to my mouth, I would go out of the city Mhmm.
In into the fields Yep.
And, would look for food.
Obviously, at first, you try to do it without stealing, but if you are really, really hungry, I think the law allows you to to take an apple here and there If that's all you have, to because the only way you have.
So I would go out to nature, and, I think, part of the answer to your questions is let's move out of the urban concentrations into nature if we can.
Personally, I've grown up in the countryside, And then I went to study in Barcelona, which was a very polluted city.
Yes.
It used to be very bad.
Before the Olympics.
Yeah.
Now it has improved, but I didn't like Barcelona because it was dirty and, polluted and noisy.
And now everyone loves Barcelona because it's very lively, very creative, lots of things to do.
But big cities, I think, are not a human thing.
The the, the trend should be for more green and, and more, country and more nature.
And if you live in the countryside, you can live without having to steal anyone.
And, if you take this to the extreme, you go to the Amazonian rainforest, and you take a good guide.
They will show you that you can live in the forest.
You don't survive.
You live in the forest.
You find everything you need to drink, to fish, to eat, to heal yourself.
Most medicines come from plants, and if you know which plant is good for what, you're saved.
So I think that is a good planet to have.
The the again, we come back to this number.
It's the number I always start with, a 7,500,000,000 people adding 80,000,000 people net gain every year.
And in the next 20 some odd years, we'll have 10 30 beers.
We'll have 10,000,000,000 people on this planet.
The number that I have researched, it comes back and is there's different.
But if you don't have if you can't eat for 9 meals, it's not a choice, you will do something you never thought you'd do before.
If you have children and they're not eating, you might do it sooner because of because of hunger.
Yep.
The challenge that when we look at solving for some of the challenges on earth, and sometimes people will say, David, are you gonna solve peace on earth?
And I say, look, don't we have enough on our plate?
And by the way, if we take 2 heterosexual men and 1 heterosexual woman and put them on an island stranded, there will not be peace on earth.
So I don't think we'll ever have peace on earth.
We've had we'll always have conflict, so we're not solving for that.
But if the world becomes superheated, the waters as you talk about even go up 15 centimeters, 6 inches, 30 centimeters, a foot, we will have displacement at such a scale.
We have never we haven't been able to address it, and it will lead to political, societal, environmental.
There'll be so many more challenges that will come out of that That it's it it could be overwhelming to a point that we we won't have the time to work on the bigger issues and solve for them.
That's why I asked that question.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
Yes.
And so so I understand education.
Yet when you say education, I'm asking myself, how do we take your model, the choice for plan a b is in our hands that that the first thing is choices.
How do we solve for 7,500,000,000?
How do we solve for planet Earth in the areas that are necessary?
Again, we're not gonna get rid of hating each other.
We're not gonna have even if you know cultures and lived in other cultures, your hating people is not gonna stop.
But how do we solve for enough that gives us the, I don't know, the the breathing room to make a new to make an age of infinite?
Yeah.
Maybe we can look at this, from the the leaders, perspective.
Okay.
And I think that's the the part of our conversation that we also wanted to tackle, the decision makers.
If we have if we have leaders who share the same values and who come to agree on the consumer problem that you just described in in some countries where there's still high high consumption and and high waste that is clearly unnecessary.
People can live with much, much less.
But the, commercial and business mechanisms are such that the more you sell, the better you're off, and you need to convince people to buy more.
And that's how the whole marketing science was invented, because you need to sell to make a profit, and the more you sell, etcetera.
Mhmm.
So probably we need to reverse or modify that model so that everyone can live without this push for, consuming.
Now how can we change that with the right decision makers?
And how do we make right decision makers?
Maybe by bringing them to the same school so that they learn about each other and they understand how the others think.
And this should include political leaders, scientists, and entrepreneurs.
They should all be learning and practicing as young people so that when they get out of school, they continue forming teams and they share the same values instead of, having countries competing for sometimes not very clear reasons or companies competing, just because of market share.
That is a model that it's probably not very sustainable.
If we if we have the double of the population in in a 100 years, personally I believe we can still live on planet Earth, on planet a with more people than what we have today if we learn how to manage our resources, in a more intelligent way, in a more, recycling way, and, really using the resources we need.
And even without the, the hate and the the war that you were describing, David, as unavoidable, I want to believe that they are avoidable.
I want to believe they are avoidable, and we can go, in the right direction.
I'm looking around the world, and maybe you've got a different newspaper or or feed than I do.
I'm not seeing.
It's not happening.
I agree.
Okay.
The
when I'm working on projects, I think I try to find with the people that I'm dealing with a a means by which to find a baseline.
And I and I love that your example that you used about the Chinese individual who in their society, culturally, they don't speak up unless they're asked even if they have
a great idea.
Yep.
That I that actually happened to me at NYU.
There were I was, an adjunct professor, but I taught a continuing ed executive education.
I taught a a series of programs for over 12 years.
And we had a student in the class who was from, 3 student 1 student in my class in the who was in other classes.
And the dean shared with me that this student was not gonna get his diploma.
She said, well, the 2 other teachers that teach him in other classes gave him bad grades because they never spoke up.
And I said, wait.
Wait.
Wait.
That's not their culture.
Said, but they the the teachers don't care.
That's their job to speak up.
I said, well, he spoke up tremendously in my class, in our class, because I knew culturally he had to find a safe zone, and we did things differently.
And I said to the dean, I will they have to pass these classes.
I will volunteer my time.
I will work with these 3 students.
They will take the same class, but I will manage it.
I will do it all on my own time.
And these are bright people, and they should get their diploma certificate, whatever they were getting.
And she said to me, David, stay out of other people's business.
Just do your own.
And all 3 of them left the United States, went back to their countries without their diplomas.
Oh.
Yeah.
Okay?
So, I taught at NYU for 12 years, and I can tell you that it people are gonna hear this.
It was not the best experience in the world.
I was told that we were supposed to have teachers that my classes are gonna be reviewed every semester.
At least one person would sit in, at least the class.
In 12 years, not one single person sat in my classes at all.
We did a lot of group activities.
For example, the first day we got together, everybody got to know where they came from.
My first class had 18 students from 17 countries.
I told the class, I'm here to learn from you just as much as you're here to learn from me.
Amazing.
I'm still in touch with many of these students.
And at the end of the semester, I would have a party, bring everybody together from all different years.
We'd had people coming from 8 years earlier, 9 years earlier coming to these parties.
We'd have 50, 60, 70 people.
They were amazing.
And the the dean and the school every year said you can't have them.
They're adults.
It's after school is over.
They get to pay their own meal, do everything.
They didn't want that.
And I've had the same challenges while teaching at Hong Kong University or HKUST and others in in other parts of the world.
So I'm I'm going back.
The reason I I'm bringing that up is I don't know if education is the means to solve these challenges because we have to fix education before we can fix those challenges.
And I don't have a timeline in my head for fixing education.
Maybe you do.
Do you have a timeline to fix education so that we can graduate enough people who, like you said, the, the decision makers get together and they solve it?
They work together?
That the Koreans and the Japanese and the Chinese and the Russians and the Americans and the Germans and the South Africans, Botswanians, the Brazilian, that they all get along in the same room?
Yes.
I think that I want to believe that's possible.
K.
And, I like when you talk about the teachers, primary and secondary school because they can do a big part of the job.
I know that, investing in in education is investing in the longer term, but that can be done in parallel with other things.
And, bringing education, but also opportunities to every community needs to be a priority.
And when I say opportunities, I mean that you have a brain drain in many countries
Mhmm.
That have very good universities, very good graduates, but they need to go elsewhere or they need to change sectors and and work in something very different from what they studied to make a living.
So it's about opportunities as well.
And that's something we we're doing very modestly, but, we're for example, and this will be announced very soon, an agreement with the United Nations for joint scholarships to emerging nations to help, good candidates from those countries, come and study to some of our courses.
And, once we announce that we're working with the United Nations on this, we hope that there will be others, joining to chip in and complete the scholarship so that, the student, herself or himself, has almost nothing to pay for, for a good course.
And and among those, we hope to find, corporations who, now I want to believe, more and more are convinced that they need to invest in these, underprivileged communities because they will become their future employees or customers or they will be future decision makers in the countries where they want to operate.
So it's investing in education is not only for governments or for parents, it's also for companies.
And I think that corporate social responsibility is is growing.
At least, I haven't seen statistics, recently, but I want to believe that corporate social responsibility, and and real investing in in development by companies, is growing.
Would you agree, David?
I, there's a there's a videos that I have shown people that I saw years ago.
I can't remember the guy's name.
It's about it has gumballs.
And they talk he talks about the exodus of the brain drains from countries.
And that once these individuals and I'm gonna extrapolate from that.
Once these individuals get educated in another country, they they left their home country, and now they're being educated in Switzerland or they're being educated in London.
Going back to their home countries is not always what happens, and the companies that hire them export them to other countries.
Yep.
So we don't always solve the challenge that we're looking to solve.
And it's the top tier people who get the education, and those top tier people end up not always staying and solving their challenges.
And then what they learn, and this is not socialism, is they learn consumerism.
I lived in Hong Kong.
I had 40 square meter, 400 square feet, and I was happy.
In the states, I have including finished, basement, we have about 400 square meter, 4,000 square feet.
Yeah.
And
I gotta walk a lot to get everywhere.
I paid a lot more for that place in Hong Kong, though, by a factor of at at least, almost 1 and a half to 2 times what it cost for me for my house.
Yeah.
And yet I mean, Hong Kong, the first week I was there, there was a front page of the South China Morning Post was if the if the rest of the world lived at the same level consumption and utilization as Hong Kong Hong Kong people do, we'd need 13 additional earths to keep up with demand and resources.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, again, I I'm not trying to pick on you.
Interviews always go in different directions.
And what I'm trying to do is you've kinda hit me at an interesting place.
And that's why I'm asking these questions because I'm pushing is I see what's happening around the world not only because I read it, because I've lived there or worked there.
So I've worked in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Cambodia, Malaysia, Singapore.
I've worked in these countries, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Macedonia.
I've worked in these places.
I know what it's like, and I know that some of the challenges.
I don't I haven't lived there enough to know everything, but I've seen what's the impacts that are happening.
And Project Moon Hunter, what we're doing is we're looking to solve them in a way that's very unconventional.
That leave that alone at that point.
What we're looking for is unbelievable talent around the world to help us achieve what we believe.
And when people do hear what we're doing, what we believe is a means by which to address some of the 6 mega challenges that we see.
And so why I'm pushing is because I'm a I'm a little bit of a timeline guy.
If you said to me, I've gotta be there in, that it's gotta be completed in 10 years, I would have a completely different plan than if you said it had to be done in 7 years.
It would be a completely different plan if I had to be done in 5 years.
And if you said it had to be done in 2 years, it will be completely different plan.
So I'm looking at the plan, and we're talking education.
And I did a TED talk about education.
Long story to it.
I did a TED talk about education, and education is governance.
That's all it is.
Education is governance.
And you teach differently in China than you do in India, than you do in the United States, than you do in in France because you're creating citizens.
And we haven't solved education yet.
So I'm I'm challenged with the structure of finding the right people who can think differently enough, who could be a part of the team and build.
And I'm pushing you because I'm trying to find answers that I might be missing, a different way, something I've overlooked, a red line that I have not heard about.
And so that I could say, okay.
Now I know something that I can do that I haven't done before.
Yep.
Yep.
Well, let me give you a space example that I think it can be extrapolated to any industry, to maybe, look at these, challenges that you are very well describing at, project Moon Hut.
One of my predecessors, Carl Durch, he would describe the the training that our students get by saying at the International Space University, we do not turn an engineer into a lawyer or vice versa.
What we do is that we welcome a lawyer and do we make her a space lawyer who's able to work with space engineers and, economists and, life scientists because she will have known how they think, and she will be the perfect team member in a multidisciplinary project team, which is what today's projects are about.
The the complex challenges we have will be solved by, as we all know, by multidisciplinary teams and multicultural teams because those problems are global, and we need good people from all over the place.
So just this learning of, being open to ideas and understanding the the terminology and the principles, used in other disciplines makes you a better specialist in your own discipline.
So that's at the very basics of our teaching and and learning philosophy, and, obviously, that is being adopted by many universities today.
And, I think we can extrapolate this.
But if if you we stay in the in the space domain, I think looking at our planet by comparing with other planets can also help us find some solutions even if the other planets are not, inhabited.
There is a field called, comparative planetology that looks at Venus, for example, or at Mars and tries to understand why did Mars have a magnetic field?
Why did it have a a denser atmosphere before?
Why does Mars no longer have a magnetic field or or very weak, and why does it have a much thinner atmosphere today?
Are they linked?
What does this teach us, for planet Earth?
Or what does Venus look like?
And why are there extreme conditions there?
Is there life possible on Venus?
What can we learn from Venus?
What can we apply?
And how does that help us understand the climatology on Earth by comparing with other planets who have extreme weather?
There are even concepts that you will have heard about, called, terraforming Mars.
Yep.
So transforming, the atmosphere of Mars into a breathable one.
Now everything we learn, looking at other planets, we can apply it here and maybe we can do some cleanup in our own planet through this learning.
So this is in the in the science and the engineering field, but also we see space as a great place for inspiration.
Many people are now imagining how will it be to live on the moon.
What model of society would we like to have there?
What will be the governance?
And, who will decide?
Will they depend on on the Earth decisions, will they be independent, how can we not repeat the same mistakes on the moon that we have made on Earth.
So all that good thinking is very positive and perhaps we can use it already here without waiting for, whenever we will be living on the moon.
There's a very interesting report that our students published, 2 years ago called sustainable moon.
What they did was, taking the Earth's sustainable development goals and translating them into how would they be rewritten for a moon society, what would be important to do if we would have people living there permanently.
And that report got a price, in Japan, given by the Moon Village Association.
So you were asking
Isn't the Moon Village Association out of Europe?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because you've got you've got Mencken's.
I think Mencken's is on that and Faber used to be a part and
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
That's right.
I think today it's it's quite global, but you're right.
Some of the thinkers are from Europe, but also from the US.
But they had their conference in Japan.
Oh, so it was a conference in Japan.
I I thought you said they got it out of Japan as if there was an entity out of Japan.
And so that's why it was just this.
There's there there I think they're a Vienna group.
Yes.
I'm not sure where they are registered, but, we're quite proud of of having been the hosts here in Strasbourg of the inaugural conference, the Moon Village Association, some 4 years ago.
And, they had their conference in Japan, about one and a half years ago.
That's where our students
So they they run they got this they got the price because they wrote about how the world how the moon should be run.
Yes.
Yes.
In a sustainable way, by taking into account, the sustainable development goals in terms of, they didn't take all 17 of them, but but a good number.
And the report is public.
It's freely accessible on the ISU library online, but also on the website, a dedicated website that is very easily, found, just by, looking for sustainable moon.
I think it's dotcom.
So you by so the point is is that we could find people because how?
How does I understand studying other culture other planetary, structures and why magnetic field and thinner atmosphere and teach about what it could teach about planet Earth and that the cleanup.
How does that help?
Show me an example of how what you just described has translated on a large scale, not small scale, large scale, impacts an entire species, impacts an entire continent.
Where's that connection?
So I I'm still trying to where's the people?
Where are these decision makers?
Yes.
So do you have any?
Is there any example of these type of large scale achievements?
Yes.
I think, just continuing continuing on the the topic of of space as a source of inspiration and as a model, we all know at least of one child who is fond of space and is asking questions about, the cosmos and the the whether there is life out there or whether they want to become an astronaut.
So space is really inspiring for children as it has been inspiring virtually every culture, through through history because it's out there, because we don't know about it, because we know there is an influence, because we would like to be there.
So it's about curiosity.
Now if you can channel that enthusiasm and that attractiveness of space through the schools as a way of learning, you can teach a lot of things taking advantage of the inspiration of space.
You can get young students interested in learning more.
So space as a source of inspiration can have a global impact, and some countries do it very well.
You go to Uruguay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Go ahead.
You go to Uruguay, for example, at least some years ago, the, the matter of astronomy was a compulsory one in all schools.
And the government wanted to change that, but, I think the teachers were good enough to keep it going.
And today, you you have great people coming out of Uruguay who were inspired by their early astronomy classes, and they they look at the world, in a different way, in a in a more global way.
You were describing earlier your podcast with, with Nicole Stott, who as an astronaut, knows very well what the overview effect is Mhmm.
Looking looking at planet Earth from above and how your view of the world changes, and changes your life.
If everyone could have an overview effect of planet Earth, to become a better citizen, to become a more respectful, more, sober, and to become a better decision maker.
Maybe that could be a good benefit of the, overview effect from space.
We've also had Frank White on the series who was the person who generated the overview effect.
Yeah.
The the, it's an interesting story, the overview effect.
I think I used it in the one video that we share on our website, which is not a website.
It's a page with just 3 videos.
And what, the challenge that I had with it is in 1968, they go up, they go around the moon.
There actually was there, it's more or less said that the astronauts wanted to take a picture of Earth, and they said that, okay.
Let's take it.
But, actually, the transcripts of what happened during there, there was actually a conflict because it was against mission.
It was not mission to take a picture of Earth.
And they had an issue as to if this person was gonna do it, and he did it anyway.
They ended up sharing.
And so I ask individuals who are older, you saw this thing, this blue marble.
Did you change the world because you saw the blue marble?
And they said, well, in the beginning, yeah, we thought about it, but we really haven't come forward on those promises.
This place, this planet, we're floating alone in the universe.
Nobody else is around us.
We're it's blue.
It's it's healthy.
It's rich.
We have to make sure we take care of it.
The land, the seas.
So I then say, okay.
We've had 570 astronauts who've been into space, approximate number.
Yep.
Is our world that much better?
Or have we moved to a better society, a better culture?
Do we treat people better?
Are are we taking care of our animals, our water, our land?
Is the climate being taken care of because these 570 people have been up to space.
Would you say that we have?
I think it's difficult to measure.
So you're saying we could have been worse?
If we could measure if we could measure the it.
Yes.
There was an interesting study, in the UK, done by a university about the impact of, astronaut Tim Peake's mission to space.
He flew, I believe, in 2013.
What's the guy's name?
Tim Peek.
Okay.
Yeah.
A peak like the peak of a mountain with with an e at the end.
Comparing statistics of, STEM studies, before and after Tim Peake's mission.
I think the the conclusions were were not very, very clear.
They probably needed more data or more astronauts to fly, but the phenomenon in the UK was, admirable.
The number of schools, the number of, kids that were touched by that mission.
We see it similarly, in Israel.
They are now preparing for the flight of their second, national astronaut.
This this one will be a private citizen.
We're working with, Ramon Foundation.
Yeah.
Ron Levin has been on our program.
Yes.
I know Ron
very well.
Right.
Right.
It's it's a a really, great what they're doing in terms of using space enthusiasm to engage as culture, and they get them to to build experiments, and the best one gets flown, to space.
And this touches a lot of young people.
I think, it's difficult to measure and to give you a a number to answer, daily
It's it's not
a g g We're making progress.
Ron, by the way, the first time we went over, sitting in Tel Aviv, sitting in a restaurant, went over what project Moon Hunter was about.
He said, we will give you everything we have on file.
It'll be in Hebrew,
but we
will give you all the court, the materials, whatever you need to do what you're doing.
He said, we wanna be a part of this.
We understand it.
Yeah.
And this is this is big.
We have a a construct of 1,000,000,000 hearts and minds.
We talk about how we can be involved in 5,200,000 classes around the world because we need 5,200,000, the 5,200,000 schools.
And there are 4,000 universities in the United States.
All these numbers we've looked at, and how do we achieve that?
The challenge comes and still the question is, in my mind, is we went to space.
We did the spacey thing.
We still are in space.
Do we feel that the world is that much better?
Are we getting along?
Do we understand each other more?
Are is are are the Russians, the Americans, the Chinese, the and I use them because they're bigger countries, but we can pick all the countries through South Africa, Botswana, Zambia, Nigeria, Ethiopia.
We could pick the Brazils, the Chilies, the Colombians, the we could pick all of them.
Are we that much better as a society?
Are are we doing all the things necessary?
And I I I hear that you don't have an answer.
I will give you mine.
I say no.
And I don't think I think it's aspirational to believe that one piece of the over seeing the overview effect will change enough minds fast enough to appreciate our earth because we don't appreciate the things that we have that are right in front of us as human beings.
So don't wanna I I could beat you over the head for quite a period of time.
We've hit a lot.
I you've may I've put some notes on my I've made 6 pages of notes, so it's not like I'm not paying attention.
I've got so let's go to the next one.
Planets a, b, c, and others.
What do you mean?
I mean that we live on the best planet on Earth that we could have.
Okay.
One astronaut came back and was asked, what did you miss when you were up there?
He said family and nature.
And I agree with him.
On Earth, we have family and nature, and we need to learn to take better care of both, family and nature.
And the day we will learn that nature is a member of our family, maybe we will have solved it.
You know, there are now, movements in favor of animal rights because when we kill all those chicken and all those pigs and all those cows so that we can eat, they suffer.
Now who who is able to decide what rights they have?
Maybe they should be given some more rights and more respect if they were family members, like pets.
Nobody wants to kill their pet or eat their pet.
Are you a vegetarian?
Are you a vegan?
I eat a little bit of everything, and I said a little bit.
Okay.
So, I think that's what what we need to do.
Lee eat a little bit of everything.
So the other planets, David, they're out there to teach us about our own planet.
I think that has come across already in in our discussion, and it's good in in engineering to think of option b and option c and learn about, risk management and, foresight, not only in engineering, but also in in policy, political science, and in in legal science, in economics, to look at risks and and risk mitigation so that our planet b is within ourselves so that the solutions in case of big problems are are here.
One of the topics I've been teaching, in recent years is crisis management or crisis communication.
In case of a major mishap, in your company, for example, how do you communicate to your stakeholders about a major crisis so that you control the damage and that you keep your stakeholders still on board, whether they are customers or, employees or family members.
And I think we need to consider our planet as as a member of our family that, we need to take good care of and we need to get ready, if something happens to it before well ahead and have, good prevention and good mitigation.
So what are
what are we so what are we not doing today in crisis management that we should be doing about planet a?
I think there there are many, many things we we can do,
by looking at the whole economy, the the the models, the whole governance, and the effect of what we do on on planet Earth.
This should be taught.
People should understand about the consequences of we what we do as individuals and as a society so that we can keep control of, what's happening.
I don't have any miracle solution other than encouraging those who decide to invest more in education and in, mutual understanding and getting people to talk to each other rather than, getting people to criticize each other.
Very often when we criticize something, it's because we just don't know it.
We never went there to see what's happening.
We never, listened to that person.
We just assume things, that that, may not be the right assumptions.
So these are all, human learnings and that's one part of the learning.
And I think the other part of the learning and the teaching that we need to invest much more in is in science and technology.
Because when we look at the challenges that you have defined at project moonshot Moon Hut.
Sorry.
Okay.
I think scientific research and technology solutions can can help a lot, and they need to be developed by people who need
to be well trained.
So I'm always coming back to education and training.
The when you look at the the most popular people in space industry today, by by media, not by achievements, Musk, Bezos, and Branson.
I don't think any of them finished university.
And some people, say that, the International Space University is not a real university, because, we're not acknowledged by by governments, and that's by this time, our founders wanted this to be an independent nongovernment organization to remain a neutral forum for discussion and exchange of ideas without the influence of any individual government or company.
So the the term, university diploma or university, institution are are relative.
And we all know that some of the Nobel Prizes or some of the best artists or movie makers, they were very bad students because they were already working and thinking, studying other things than what they were asked to do at school.
So maybe the model of education, also needs to be, revisited, and, allow for, good talent to develop in what they want to learn and not what we want them to learn.
One of my educational tools for me is the podcast series or the interviews I've done.
I've done, I think, close to 2 and a half 1000 to 3000 interviews with some of the most amazing individuals around the world.
That's one way I learned.
I did well in school because I had to, and my wife was brilliant with our children.
She sat down with them when they were very young complaining about how terrible school was, how the teacher didn't know as much as they did because they could see it on the Internet, and the teacher was some had slides that were 6 years old.
Yeah.
Or 8 years old.
And my wife would sit him down and say, education is a fraction of what you need to know to live in the world today.
What they teach you there, you have to get through because it's a game, a piece of paper that moves you forward.
So just do what you need to do, but the real world are the things that we're teaching you and the things that you're learning through the experiences we have.
So our our approach was very different is that we I would take our kids to we've owned businesses since we've been around since, my wife and I have been together.
And I would take them on a field trip to a warehouse or to a manufacturing plant or to another plant, and they would see things that they wouldn't have seen otherwise.
Yep.
And so education is very different.
I think the term education needs to change, overall to to meet these very bad students who, as you say, became Nobel Prize winners.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's true.
So and Why don't
we I think that that takes us to to the, the new ways of of teaching and learning that are much more interactive and much more real world connected, much more, interdisciplinary and, much more, oriented towards problem solving, than, just memorize thing, theoretical concepts.
So that's what we're trying to do, and I think the the educators worldwide are are aware of this.
They're working on this.
So what about this last one then?
Discuss what we do with our hands.
What to do with our hands.
So what are what should we be doing or what or how?
Where where do you wanna go with this?
Yes.
Well, on this one, I'm, 100% in line with you, David, when you were asking earlier, how can we turn things into action and not just stop at, making studies?
Personally, I've been doing things with my hands since I was a child, whether it is, out in the field or with with a farm or, building or repairing, machines, whether they are bicycles or motorcycles or or just the plumbing.
Mhmm.
Building furniture, out of wood.
And this has been something that's without me noticing, has filled many of my free time hours and probably, relaxed and cleaned my mind from the normal study or or work.
So what I enjoy is doing, and sometimes the doing is take, what you have done with your children, taking them out and showing them places that you love, where you think other people should also go and see and learn.
And that's something I still do now as a hobby, not exactly a hands on hobby where you build things, but what I enjoy and I hope to still do, after my term at International Space University is take groups of, enthusiastic young people who want to learn, take them on a trip to a place where they would probably not go on their own.
And this place is, in the middle of the Amazon rainforest between Venezuela and Brazil on the Atlantic coast.
It's a place that is still part of Europe.
It's called French Guiana Mhmm.
Where you can discover the melting pot of cultures, the extreme bio extreme richness of the biodiversity in the Amazonian rainforest.
It's one of the best preserved sites of the Amazonian rainforest because it has been almost not exploited by agriculture or or mining.
Almost no.
And just in the middle of it, you have a high-tech civilian launch site for, satellites, spaceport for European rockets that launch telecom and earth observation and navigation and exploration satellites.
By the way, the, the famous, James Webb Space Telescope, very well known in the United States, a major NASA mission will be launched, we hope, before the end of this year out of French Guiana onboard, Ariane 5 Rocket.
The teams are going down there very soon.
And this is the
replacement for the Hubble?
It is the the second Hubble.
Exactly.
Yes.
James Webb Space Telescope that will, bring us even more knowledge, compared to to Hubble.
So that's a place on Earth that I think many people should see so that they are impacted by the overview effect even if we don't call it that of, the richness of nature and the richness of ethnical and cultural melting pot that lives there.
Obviously, COVID has also had an impact there, so we're not sure what the next trip will exactly look like, but, there will be a next trip.
And, I take groups of some 15 people there once or twice per year.
And they come back really impressed.
Some of them even, apply for jobs, and, eventually, they they go and and spend a few years working there.
So that's a type of hands with my hands project that I can see the results.
Mhmm.
But, if you allow me to maybe, give you a couple of concluding, thoughts, David.
Throughout my career, some of the most challenging jobs have been in education, but clearly the most rewarding job that I can say my hands had something to do with it is when I see the faces of our graduating, students.
On the day of graduation, you don't need to speak much.
You don't need to hear much.
Just watch people's, faces and what they say to each other and how they they hug each other.
They don't want to to leave, and they will stay in touch.
So that's the result of, hard work by, many people, professors and staff and the administration and their sponsors, but it's the most rewarding feeling.
And those, alumni, you know this because you have children and you have, worked with teachers.
For a teacher, the most rewarding result of their work is when a former student comes back after maybe some years and says, thanks to you, I'm I'm now here.
So maybe maybe thanks to us, the planet, in a few years will be here.
Yeah.
And it will tell us thank you, for taking good care of me.
We, yes, thank you.
We are we are very optimistic of the the work that we're doing.
We believe that we'll make the changes, and, we we will be here.
There will be challenges ahead.
I did teach at NYU.
So as I mentioned, I had Yes.
2 different classes.
Many students took me twice.
So but I have 309 students over those 12 years.
I'm still in touch with probably over 250 of them.
Oh, okay.
I I I appreciate that.
And, yes, thank you for taking the time to talk, with us today, to talk to me today, and I've got some notes of things that we might be able to change, do differently to make sure that we keep on keep on moving the initiatives that we've put forward forward.
And I'd like to thank all of you out there for taking the time in your day to listen in.
I do hope that you learn something today that will make a difference in your life and the lives of others.
Project Moon Hut Foundation is where we look to establish once again a box of the roof and a door on the moon to the accelerate development of an earth and space based ecosystem.
Then to take those endeavors, the paradigm shifting thinking, the innovations, and turn them back on earth to improve how we live on earth for all species.
With that said, Juan, I wanna thank you.
Is is there one best way to connect with you?
LinkedIn.
Oh, okay.
And so just you could spell your name so that everybody has it accordingly and they can look you up in that way.
Yes.
I will spell my name and, I will do it in a way that will help, everyone to practice the international alphabet Okay.
Which as a as a former pilot, I I like the international alphabet because, it avoids mistakes, when you have to communicate over radio.
You cannot allow mistakes to happen when, the pilot is talking to the control tower.
Right?
So, my name is Juliet uniform alpha November, new word delta echo new word delta alpha Lima Mike alpha uniform.
And I am, an admiring user of LinkedIn because it's very powerful.
It's serious.
You can have many connections.
You never lose them because they are always there.
And what I appreciate most of LinkedIn is that when a student comes to me and says, I would like to do an inter an internship here or there, or I would like to get in touch with an expert or such a company or such a project.
I take my phone, and I immediately connect that student with the person I know in this or that organization just by searching very quickly, and then I introduce them to each other without having to do a long introduction or explaining, the lives of each of them.
It's all on LinkedIn.
So I just say, hello so and so.
Please meet so and so.
There's something of mutual interest you should discuss.
Thank you.
So the introduction is done, and I hope that doesn't consume too much energy, David, and doesn't, pollute pollute the atmosphere too much even if I'm using the Internet.
We can't reduce ourselves to the point to turn what we have what we've created around.
So it's I I'm thinking have you seen the movie with Tom Cruise where he's on the racetrack and there's the smoke and he has to decide, does he break, or does he go through it?
Thunderbolt or something?
I don't remember.
No.
I haven't.
There's a you've see you've seen the clip, and what he does is he shoots through it.
It doesn't break.
We have to shoot through it.
So that was a a great end, with the LinkedIn.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
To to get a con connect with me, you can reach me at david@moonhut.org.
As I did mention, there are 3 videos in the top right hand corner.
Number 1 is a presentation that was given in, where was number in Macadonia.
2nd one is in Luxembourg, and the third one is what we're working on on a large scale.
We have a moon up project.
We have a moon up lever, and we have a moon up purpose.
And we describe many of the things that we're doing.
We have individuals all around the world who are participating.
Number 2, you can connect with us on Twitter, at project moon hut.
You can connect with us on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on Instagram.
So we're there.
And that said, I'm David Goldsmith, and thank you for listening.

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