#12 Meghan Canfield - Ultra-running Powerhouse, Peaking in her fifties, Overcoming Menopause, Truths for Training and for Life - Ageless Athlete - Stories and Secrets of Adventure Sports Icons

Episode Transcript
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Kush (00:04):
Welcome back friends.
Do the ageless athlete podcastfor your next dose of fireside
chats with adventure sports,legends.
This is Kush.
I could deal while from my sunnywindow in Sanford.
San Francisco.
Celebrated my birthday thisweekend.
Which happily coincided with thechange to daylight savings time.
For us.
The U S so glad for these longerdays, again and more time

(00:28):
outside.
Share the show now with afriend.
It helps discover us.
Twitter for today's show wherewe meet with an ultra running
all time.
Great.
Who really embodies the wordageless.
At 60 to make an cancel.
It is not slowing down.
Over the past few decades, Maconhas qualified and run in the us

(00:53):
Olympic marathon trials fourtimes.
She has.

(01:58):
Hi Meghan, would love to knowHow old are you?
Where are you today?
uh,what u have for breakfast?

Meghan (02:06):
okay, I am 62 young.
I'm in Corvallis, Oregon, and Ihad eggs with, rice and avocado
for breakfast

Kush (02:18):
We immediately have two things in common.
One is we are in the same timezone.
I am just south of you in SanFrancisco.
I also had eggs for breakfast

Meghan (02:30):
Nice.

Kush (02:31):
I actually want to talk about something that you were
just doing.
You were in New Zealand runninga famous race that I read about.
I happened to see your blog aswell.
Really well written.
Thank you for sharing the story.
And one thing that immediatelystruck to me was that there you.

(02:52):
has been, or there is thiscommunity of runners, people
such as yourself who, do theseultra runs in different places.
made me immediately think aboutsome other outdoor communities
where you have these great bondsand these great friendships.
So maybe just starting off, canyou describe a little bit of

(03:14):
the, this culture around ultrarunning and, how it brings you.
all together.

Meghan (03:21):
I think you're right.
It's a very, cohesive.
And supportive group.
And I would say that we all havethis one thing in common and
that is that we love to run andwe love to run for a time and I
am not afraid to reach out toAny ultra runner that haven't

(03:42):
met if I'm going to city andjust connecting and say, Hey,
would you like to take me on along run and I'll go run for
eight hours with a you know, astranger, because there's a
certain, faith and expectationthat they're not going to be a
serial killer.
and I met, a lot of people thatway, not only in you know.
That sort of situation, but inraces are so long and there's

(04:07):
such an ebb and flow with therunners that you could end up
running with, you know, astranger who becomes a friend
because you're going to run withthem for two or three hours and
you just end up talking aboutkind of everything.
I think it's that one commonthing we have is we're going to
be outside all day.
We love to be outside.
And then let's talk about yourkids or let's talk about, you

(04:27):
know, where you're from.
And, I've made some friendsaround the world

Kush (04:31):
That sounds so beautiful and sounds like you connect with
new people, sometimes strangers,because you have this, love for
the shared sport, but thenpeople that you already know
well, you keep Reconnecting andkeep those bonds fresh because
you choose to take part in racesand beautiful locations like the

(04:54):
one that you were just in, inNew Zealand, we should actually
clarify for the peoplelistening.
Some people may not clearlyunderstand what an ultra run is.
I think most of us know what amarathon is.
what is an ultra

Meghan (05:13):
So technically anything over 26.
2 miles.
So, um, typically, um, typicallyin the U.
S., the, there's four basicdistances.
That's 50K.
50 mile, 100K, and 100 mile, andas our sport has grown, um,

(05:34):
internationally, um, if you goto Europe or if you go any place
besides the US, people who do,who use metric, they're mostly,
you know, every, all the racesare in kilometers, um, and also
More and more races aren't aspecific, you know, a
traditional distance because Ithink we're leaning towards

(05:56):
somewhere in the ballpark of160K, but if a loop is 170K,
then we're going to run 170K.
So it's a little more organicthat way.
And I kind of like that gives itmore purpose to an actual route,
but those are the more commondistances.
And now there are even longerruns.

(06:19):
There's been a recent uptick inthe number of 200 mile ultras,
and those are more, um, I wouldsay akin to fast packing.
I haven't done one, so I, Idon't want to,

Kush (06:32):
Yeah.

Meghan (06:32):
you know, put too much, uh, description to it, but they
take a lot longer than, say,twice a 200, twice a 100 mile
run, um, and they're they'restructured a little bit
differently.
There are aid stations, but, Um,you know, runners can take
little dirt naps along the wayif they want, just on the side
of the trail.

(06:52):
Um, so those are gettingpopular.
Um, and then there are stageraces as well.
Uh, I think the most famous oneis Marathon to Saab, is a, uh,
six day stage race, and there'sfive.
Um, legs to it basically, um,and those are, they're each

(07:14):
section, each day is timed andthen the clock stops when you
stop and your time isaccumulated over those days

Kush (07:21):
Starting from anything over 26.
2 miles to sound like almostlimitless to whatever, one's
imagination or Capacity enduremight be one thing.
I immediately love about how youdescribed it how The exact
length doesn't have to be aspecific number.

(07:43):
So yeah, you have thesearbitrary, titles, let's say
it's a hundred K or a hundredmile run or one 60 K.
But really sounds like theactual course has as much weight
in determining how long the runis.
So for example, if a run ismaybe connecting two trail
systems together.

(08:05):
And that might be a determinantto how long the.
actual race, maybe.
And I think that that'sbeautiful because I like how our
niche spooks, they refuse toconform to say an arbitrary
number.
Let's say the length of abasketball court.
Nothing wrong with basketball.

(08:26):
Or the size of a Dennis gourd.
It's determined in so many.
Ways by mother nature and whatshe offers to us.

Meghan (08:37):
There, there's um, one sort of caveat to that is there
are road Ultra marathons, andthose are, um, a different sort
of beast.
They're not quite as popularbecause they are harder on your
body.
Um, They're faster, and that'sonly, um, avenue that you can

(08:59):
actually set a time on that ismeasured and stated down, and
you know, the InternationalAssociation of Ultra Running
will have your world records,um, for different distances.
It can only be on a coursethat's measurable, and I mean,
you can measure a trail, butyou're going to get a different
measurement every time.
So tried.

(09:20):
So there's, uh, there arerecords for the 50k road, 50
road, 100k road, 100 mile road.
Um, I don't think they'd goabove that at this point.
Then there's also 24 hour and 48hour and more events.

(09:42):
And in the 24 hour you can alsoset.
records for, you know, how muchdistance has been covered

Kush (09:48):
Got it.
It sounds like, yes, there areall these, different types of
ultra runs, but there is maybe acore distinction between road or
let's say a man made ultra runversus.
A, uh, ultra trail run, whichtakes course.
let's say natural features.

(10:09):
Appreciate that, uh, thatdistinction.
I'm guessing for the ones wherepeople can set records.
And I know that I think you havealso set records because I think
you've also had a long careerwith, these road races, with the
US team and others.
Does ever climate conditions orthings such as, any hills you

(10:29):
might have to run over, like,uh, change in gradient.
Does that also take place?
I'm trying to see.
different, uh, road ultra runs,one takes on a flat road versus
one, which might include thehills of San Francisco are being
measured the same way

Meghan (10:46):
They're measured the same, but it's, trying to set a
world record at Boston Marathon,probably not going to happen,
even though it is recordeligible.
so if you want to set a record,the best thing you should do is
go to someplace where it's 55degrees Fahrenheit and
completely flat and no wind.
And that's not easy to do.
So, um.

(11:07):
That's why some records do takea while to fall

Kush (11:10):
between all these different types of ultra runs.
What is your favorite type?
If there was only one kind of, Iguess, I don't know, this might
be a silly question, but ifthere's only one kind of an
ultra run that you could do, howlong would it be?
Where would it be?
And what would make it sospecial

Meghan (11:30):
Um, for me, my favorite ultra is Western States 100
mile.
and it's all trail.
It's point to point.
It's very historical.
It was my first hundred milerun.
and I, I love the SierraNevadas.
I love.
All the canyons.

(11:50):
I love how the terrain changesfrom the down to, um, almost
down to the valley floor.
Um, I mean, it's just so diverseand, and so beautiful to me.
Um, and I've sort of built myown personal community by doing
that race multiple times.

(12:11):
And I did live down there foreight years.
so the whole, the story that isnot just the race, but the story
of living there and trainingthere and just sort of living
in, on that trail, um, it reallyspoke to me and I was really
lucky to be able to, to bethere, but that is definitely my
favorite.

(12:31):
I, I choose trail over road anyday.
And.
I say a hundred miles is myfavorite distance, by golly mile
80, I'm sort of always, youknow, questioning my life
choices.
But I'm always happy when Ifinish.

Kush (12:45):
When you're deep in that type two, uh, uh,

Meghan (12:51):
Mm-Hmm?

Kush (12:52):
guess one can really fathom what one might be
feeling.
Until one is actually in themiddle of that and at that
point, one is, uh, one is toolate, but hey, you know, some,
you're able to keep going.
And, uh, one other thing beforeI forget, which also struck a
little chord is you mentionedhow community is so strong and

(13:17):
there's.
know, deep, deep sense ofpassion where you could be in a
new place and you could reachinto the community and find
another, uh, running zealot joinyou for like an eight hour or so
push.
And I find that is such a greatparallel with another, let's
say, outdoor sport like rockclimbing where, where, I could

(13:40):
be visiting, for example,recently I was in, in Peru, in
Juarez, and I needed a climbingpartner there, and I just
reached, reached, And I was ableto get somebody who's, and we
spent the next three daysclimbing together in the
mountains and, you know, frombeing complete strangers, you
know, one is literally holdingthe rope and trusting the other

(14:01):
person with their lives.
And then as you do that, youstart sharing all these.
Beautiful things, your lifestory, it's kind of a
combination of, uh, putting yourlife in somebody else's hands.
And maybe sharing an overnightGreyhound ride where you.
divulge, all your dirty secretswith yeah.
The person.

Meghan (14:21):
Yeah.
No, I agree.
It's, it's very similar to that.
trusting somebody to take yourunning through mountains that
you've never been.
you're putting your life intheir hands, just like maybe not
quite as on the edge as rockclimbing, but yeah, very
similar.
Um, just, uh, and it's for mewith somebody were to come to
Corvallis and ask me to takethem for a run.

(14:42):
I would love that.
I would love to show them mybackyard.

Kush (14:45):
So incredible how you would share some of your most
treasured backyard trails with anew person and you would
actually find joy in that sharedexperience.
A little bit about yourbackground.
Where did you grow up, Meghan?
And, uh, Were you a naturalathlete growing up?

(15:07):
Were there runners in the familyand you would run with them?
And then, yeah, how did you gofrom whatever you were doing as
a kid to, uh, running 100 mileraces?

Meghan (15:21):
I grew up in rural Oregon.
my parents were educators and wehad a hobby farm and I know I
spent a lot of time driving atractor around in circles.
and it never seemed to, youknow, bore me.
So I think is just, An innateability to just keep going, not

(15:41):
done yet, just got to keepgoing.
And the other piece was I wouldlook at the, the hills to the
west of our little farm, andI've always want to know what's
on the other side.
I really wanted to just get on ahorse and ride over those hills,
but you know, it was somebodyelse's property, never did it,
but, um.

(16:01):
I've always had that curiosityand that desire and basically
travel bug.
Um, according to my brother, Iwas a pretty good athlete
because he once said, well, Iwas never the athlete that you
are.
Oh, Um, I did ball sports inhigh school.
It was much as such a smallschool that everybody did
everything.
So I was lucky to be able toplay volleyball, basketball.

(16:23):
I ran track, but I wasn't.
That good because I wanted todo, like most kids I wanted to
do, you know, I want to jump thehurdles and stuff.
Um, I didn't really do anydistance until I was in my
twenties and I just, I like tobe fit.
I don't I don't really want tosit around and not be fit.
So I started running becausethat was the most convenient

(16:46):
thing And over time I just sortof became addicted that.
And I'll start with a 5k.
Oh, that's pretty fun.
Let's do a and just.
It's sort of a naturalprogression.
I took a long time.
I was never in a hurry.
I never really envisioned myselfYou know, I was a pretty good
marathoner never really saw thatcoming and then started Yeah, I

(17:09):
just it just evolved.
It wasn't I never I look back,you know 50 years ago This life
I could not imagined

Kush (17:18):
Was it a conscious decision to transition from
running shorter races andmarathons, let's say, into doing
these longer, uh, monstrousruns?
was it gradual?
Or, and then once you, once youstart doing.
These super long runs.
what convinced you that thiswas, you know, I don't know,
maybe what you were born to do?

Meghan (17:40):
I'm curious.
So I just kept you know, try thenext thing.
Cause it looked fun.
Like, look at those people.
They look totally destroyed.
They just ran 50 miles.
I want to do that too.
and I did see, um, one of theolder documentaries on Western
States.
And that was like, I really wantto do that.
I want to see this for myself.
I want to experience for myself.

(18:00):
Yeah, people are totallywrecked, but um, let me have a
taste of that too.
you know, they are really kindof ridiculously hard and It's
like giving birth, you know,when you're done, you're like,
yay, I have this baby.
Now I'm going to go do it againbecause it wasn't all that bad.

Kush (18:17):
the people I know who have given birth and some of them
have given birth, uh, you know,more than once like my mom, I
don't think they seek out moreoccasions to give birth.
So I'm sure it's just as hard.
but something about, uh, theseraces keeps calling you back
despite, uh, uh, you know, the,the depth of, uh, suffering and

(18:39):
hard work that it takes.
You, you use the word curiosity,which is quite interesting.
What is that curiosity for?
Is it for figuring out whatyou're capable of?
Is it curiosity for knowing ifyou're better than other people?

(19:00):
What is that, uh, force for you?

Meghan (19:03):
think it's mostly curiosity about what I'm capable
of, um, because it changes.
And so I, you know, I, I peaked,I peaked in my fifties, which is
nice that I waited that long topeak.
Um, so now the curiosity is moreabout.
At what rate am I going to keepslowing down and, uh, what can

(19:27):
I, are there things I can do toSlow down the slow down.
Um, and can I keep enjoying it?
it's it's a little more of achallenge physically, um, to
enjoy it because the amount ofwork, for one thing, I can't do

(19:51):
the amount of work and theamount of work isn't as quite as
fun as it used to be.
It used to be, you know, you goto the track.
Do a hard workout and you, youknow, you see your splits and
you're like pretty jazzedbecause you've either had a
great workout and you're alittle bit faster or you're kind
of the same, but it feels sogood.
And now I haven't been to thetrack in a while because it's so

(20:14):
discouraging, but I worked sohard and, um.
Yeah, it's it's not as rewardingfor sure.
Um, so that's, you know, kind ofwhere I am now is just trying
stay curious enough to keepmyself and, you know, make some
data points for Um, Other peopleto,

Kush (20:36):
Absolutely.
What, maybe what brings youcuriosity and joy today could be
a little bit different than whatit was in your fifties a few
years ago.
And it could be different yetfrom what it might've been when
you were, uh, maybe, uh, more ofa swashbuckling spring chicken,
if you may, running all theseraces, winning all these races.

(21:00):
So this question I have, which.
Which, uh, comes from our commonfriend, Carling, Carling Ursim.
And Carling wants to know, youhave been running for such a
long time all kinds of lifephases.
have you kept your stoke up?

Meghan (21:20):
it hasn't been hard until the last few years.
Honestly.
I, I'm not sure.
I know I had a, I had somestruggles very early on with
motivation.
but there were there were fewand far between.
I think I would get to thispoint.
Like, if I just like, Oh, Idon't know if I really want to
train or run.
And then I would think about howit's sort of like the Nike just

(21:41):
do it.
It, I know that if I go out anddo it.
I'll glad I did it.
And I, that's still true.
That is very much still true.
If I like, oh, do I really wantto keep training?
Just go out and do it.
You're going to feel better fordoing it it is sort of this just
conscious awareness that you'regoing to feel better if you do
it,

Kush (22:02):
Absolutely.
I think a lot of people canrelate that, uh, sometimes, One
can be happy and in a good stateof mind and go do something.
One can also create that stateof mind by doing first, if I
may.
But for, I think for, uh, thevast majority of us that let's
say if it's running related,that doing might be, uh, you

(22:25):
know, a few miles around theneighborhood or the track, uh,
not let, not a 50 mile, uh, run.
So maybe, Yeah.
that's it.
what makes, uh, ultra athletesspecial because your appetite

Meghan (22:38):
Most of us also have a lot of FOMO and the more races
that pop up and your you know,your friend just said, I just
did this amazing race and, youknow, it's like, well, I want to
do that one too.
So I think that helps keep itgoing.

Kush (22:51):
I agree that I think, peer pressure plus the bond have with
others who are doing the samething and that shared
experience, uh, is so treasured.
just staying on the theme whatmakes you talented where do you
think you lie, Meghan, betweenbeing super naturally gifted as.

(23:12):
A runner versus putting ininsane amounts of hard work.
Where are you in that

Meghan (23:21):
I would say I'm more on the, gifted with good genetics,
I've never really had a seriousinjury.
I've had a few, you know, boutsof tendinitis that I would like,
Oh, learn why I got it.
And then I would, Like not getit again.
I've never had a stressfracture.
so I've been very, you know,lucky that way.

(23:44):
And I think cardiovascularly,that's all inherited.
and I work don't think I work ashard as a lot of people do, I
like to do other things.
So I think, yeah, I've just beenlucky.
and I've been able to beconsistent.
And I think that's probably thebiggest part.
Is because of the genetics, youknow, my, my body being good at

(24:06):
running, uh, I've been able tobe consistent year after year.
And so that body of work, youknow, it took a long time to
build it up, but I think indoing so, created a stronger
machine than if I had been maybea little less biomechanically,
blessed and then, you know, workreally hard and then continually
getting injured

Kush (24:26):
I can imagine that, uh, generics and gifts are so
crucial, but you've still had toput in the, uh, relentless miles
and all the other training.
Do you think that yourcontemporaries, people who.
Have been running with you thinkyou could you could extract more

(24:47):
out of the same level oftraining effort.
Also, if other people were alsoputting the same effort, perhaps
they might have gotten injured

Meghan (24:58):
Mm

Kush (24:58):
and and had not been able to keep up with you.

Meghan (25:02):
If they've done exactly what I did, um, maybe, maybe
not.
I I, think because I I do a lotof really easy running and then
the, you know, speed sessions Iwould do were, you know,
basically I would only do onespeed session a week.
They were pretty, you know,pretty hard, but mostly my runs
were easy.

(25:22):
you know, if if everyone ran aseasy as I did and then hard when
you should, and then maybe don'tover race, don't race too much.
Um, maybe, but then there's justalso just some structural things
like I've never been prone tostress fractures and I think
some people are and I thinkthat's partly biomechanics.

(25:42):
Um, but I don't know, that wouldtake another, you know, some
research or something.

Kush (25:48):
For sure.
A different kind of question onthe subject of, perseverance.
Do you think you are just asdogged at other things in your
life as you are with yourrunning accomplishments?
So let's say if one was to askyour parents.
If Meghan was just as drivenwith other things growing up,

(26:09):
what might they say?

Meghan (26:10):
I think so.
I'm sort of a B plus person, Ithink, not quite type A.
but I always took anything thatwas asked of me to would take it
seriously.
And I'd want to always a goodjob.
because that's, I don't know, itfeels good to me to do, you
know, as best as I can.
I mean, there's, Some things inmy life that I don't really care

(26:32):
about.
Like I don't do a very good jobwith my laundry.
and I really don't like, youknow, to dust my house.
I just dust just comes back.
other things, yeah, like mygarden, I I take things like
that pretty seriously.
Music, I play flute andsaxophone and I practice quite a
bit and I I have pretty highstandards.
in my mind and goals of, youknow, how I'd like to sound and

(26:54):
I'm, you know, never quitethere.
And I would say that wasprobably true of my running as
well.
I always had, I always like toset the bar high.
And know that it's going to beunlikely that I'll reach it, but
I'm going to sure try because ifI'm hitting the bar every time,
then I'm not working hardenough.

Kush (27:12):
I think I remember there's this poem I read somewhere a
long time ago, dust if you must,you know.
I think that, that is actually apoem, yes.
Yes, one can, uh, buy one's lifewith so many things.
thank you for sharing all ofthat.
changing tracks a bit and, uh,would love to dive a little bit
into, uh, the maintenance andthe training.

(27:34):
Starting off the gates withasking you this, how do you
train prepare yourself forsomething as, again, as
ridiculous to most of us as ahundred mile run?

Meghan (27:45):
used to be a lot more miles than I do now.
And I kind of wonder like maybeI never had to do as many miles
as I thought I did.
But, basically, six months outfrom a race, basically I will
run easy most days, but I'llhave some pretty fast intense
workouts, like once a week,short intervals, really high
power just to get my VO2 maxkind of, Stimulated, see if it's

(28:10):
up where as high as it can be.
for a month or two with justeasy runs, not very long runs,
maybe 12 miles or so, and thenshift into longer intervals that
are a little bit slower, butkind of like 10 K efforts for a
couple months as the one speedworkout a week, and then I'll
start increasing my long run.

(28:32):
And I'll probably get up to likea 30 mile long run.
it used to do, I haven't donethis too much in the past few
years, uh, back to back longruns.
maybe, a 30 mile run one day andthen, uh, you know, 10 or 15
mile run the next day.
I don't recover as well as Iused to, so I haven't really

(28:52):
done that as much.
But I don't think I need to.
I mean, I know how to, I knowhow to do this distance.
as Yogi Berra said, 50 percentof the game is 95 percent
mental, something like that.
So I, you know, I know how to doit.
I'm not afraid of the distance.
Um, so I don't feel like I haveto do back to back long runs.
I think they're harder on me nowthan they used to be.

(29:12):
Um, in the last few monthsbefore the race, I'll still do
intervals, but they'll be muchlonger and more like a marathon
effort.
all of it's just to basicallytrickle down to that all day
effort is going to be a littlebit faster than if I hadn't done
any any speed work at all.
because that's basically thebottom line is you want your,
slog to be not as slow as it wassix months before.

(29:36):
and yeah, just spend a lot oftime outside running around in
the hills.

Kush (29:39):
sounds like you have a plan usually, and I'm guessing
your plan and the way you trainhas has been instructed by all
the years of, uh, running andracing prior to that, between
feeling and science, trying toget a sense of how, you know,

(30:00):
Carefully you track and measureyour performance and educate
your training versus how youfeel.
it's a topic that fascinates meas I talk to, other athletes, in
our, uh, age group and, uh,genre of how they, use the, the
biofeedback and the datafeedback where do you use that
information?

Meghan (30:21):
I used to use it a lot when I was still fast, faster
than I am now before I startedto slow down.
I definitely, would look at it alot.
I look at it mostly as asinformation.
Years ago, I did heart ratetraining because that's what
people did.
And I learned from that, how torun slower on my easy days

(30:44):
instead of just always run onthe edge.
so that was very useful.
We don't really use, heart rateas much as we use, you know,
your rate of perceived exertion,because it's kind of more
meaningful.
yeah, in the past I'd do a runand then I'd go back and I'd
look at it.
And that would tell me tell mehow I and, and I'd think, well,
that's about what I thought, youknow, I didn't feel so great and

(31:05):
it shows, or I might've feltlike, I felt really good.
And look at that.
It's true.
I did feel really good.
I ran really fast today.
I'm not too obsessed withnumbers.
I just don't have time.
I, I'm not that curious aboutthe numbers.
my training log is Strava.
I don't have a book and write itdown.
I go back and look at Strava.
Oh, so that's how much I ranthis week.
Okay, cool.

(31:26):
but I know people do lovenumbers and they love
spreadsheets and I'm just notone of those people for my own
running.

Kush (31:33):
I'm guessing that you've learned so much, you know, you
have your body and your, yourheart and your muscles have
this, deep internal memory bank,and you can, uh, subliminally
tease out things about yourperformance and whatnot, that,
maybe younger runners or lessexperienced people haven't quite

(31:54):
developed the capacity for.
Yeah.
A question here, which also issomething that is very
fascinating to me, which is, inrunning as well as other sports,
the age span of peak performanceseems to have kept going up.
so when one looks at marathonrunners, one looks at even a

(32:17):
different kind of sport, like.
American football.
One sees that people are peakinglater and later in life.
Is that also true for ultrarunners?

Meghan (32:29):
Yeah, I think so.
I think it takes a while toreally find your potential as an
ultra runner because you can'tgo run one every weekend.
I mean, if you did, you wouldn'tlast very long.
You would burn out or getinjured.
so many things that happen inone race.
so let's say you had three inyour first ultra, like, okay, I

(32:50):
got blisters.
Um, I threw up, Yeah.
I, um, was And so, okay, thosethree things, okay, I'm going to
make sure that I, get my feet inthe right shoes and socks, I'm
going to lube my feet up, andI'm going to make sure that
whatever I eat I've practicedwith, and it's going to be fine.
And then I'm going to make surethat I drink enough.
Okay, so you got all those threethings.
You go to the next ultra, andyou have five different

(33:10):
problems.
So, it's like, oh, I thought Ifixed everything.
Or if you're like me, You stilldo rookie mistakes.
It's like, well, I figured thisone thing out, but then I forgot
to do it again, you know, it'slike you figured that out five
years ago and you just blew it.
So, so it does take a while.
I think it takes a while topeak.
I think I probably took, um,maybe four or five years to, you

(33:36):
know, have my best Westernstates, best hundred miler,
because of mistakes I would makealong the way and, Sort of
figure those out.
And the biggest thing is justthat everyone has to learn is
just how to problem solve and todo it quickly, not just realize,
Hmm, got a hotspot on my foot orwhatever, what that's going to
do.
Well, you're at mile 30.
You're probably going to have ablister by mile 50.

(33:58):
You need to take care of itsoon.

Kush (34:00):
you said this yourself that you peaked in your,
fifties, right?
Some of your best, uh,performances.
So Yeah, this is not gymnastics,you know, when you're peaking
at, peaking and, and reachingpuberty at the same time.
This is a different sport.
if you were 30 years old again,and somebody was to ask you, uh,
Meghan, when do you think youwould be peaking?

(34:22):
What would you have said then?
And then, uh, in your case, uh,beyond what you have said
already about, uh, everythingelse I've mentioned, what do you
think helped you, uh, keeppushing your, uh, performance,
as you

Meghan (34:35):
Yeah.
I think in my thirties, I wouldhave thought I'd probably peak
in my forties maybe just becauseI didn't I didn't run in
college.
You know, so it was like the ageof myself as my runner age, you
know, and I and I felt like Ihad a very good, cardiovascular
system.
yeah, I probably would havethought maybe my forties.
when I was in my forties, I washaving a fair bit of hip pain

(34:59):
and some sort of imbalances, andthis goes back to like being
injured and figuring out whatwas going on.
And I honestly, I was ready tolike, okay, um, when I'm turned
50, I'm going to retire fromcompetitive running because this
hip thing is just hurting somuch.
And I, um, got connected to aphysical therapist who, just did
amazing things.
She really unwound a lot of.

(35:20):
A problems that I had developedand from repetitive stress.
but my mind was definitely onthis whole idea.
Well, you know, there, there isa problem with some imbalances
and we can fix those.
And I fixed them and it, itturned everything back around.
And so then I had even more timeagain, to continually, to build

(35:41):
on my distances, build up morestrength, and so I think it just
took that much longer, so maybeit's more of a, okay, I peaked,
let's see, when did I startrunning ultras?
My 40s peaked in my 50s.
Maybe it takes 10 years to peak.
Maybe the 30 year olds are goingto peak when they're 40, or the
20 year olds are going to peakwhen they're 30.
I don't know.
That's just a, that's just awild guess, really.

(36:02):
But, you know, at some point,we're not going to keep
improving.
but it can take a while, I'msure.

Kush (36:07):
Got it.
you also dispense, uh, some ofyour, uh, hard earned lessons
and wisdom.
with running to others as acoach yourself.
Could you share a little bitmore about your coaching program
and if there are peoplelistening who might want to
avail of your, uh, services,

Meghan (36:28):
Sure.
they can email me.
Meghan Canfield at gmail.
com.
we have a website calledzenithcoaches.
com, which you can also reachout that way.
so it's all virtual pretty much.
what I would say is because, youknow, I can tell you about my
coaching platform and, how I setup schedules or whatever, but

(36:49):
really what it comes down for meis to getting to know each
athlete and setting up reallygood communication.
because everyone's, different.
their goals are different, howmuch they can train is
different, what their lives arelike is different, but the more
I can connect with them as ahuman being, the better I can
help them achieve their goals,because there's just so many

(37:13):
variables, everybody has intheir lives, and I want people
to succeed, I just love gettingto know runners and, and helping
them achieve their goals.

Kush (37:23):
Beautiful.
And do you only focus on ultrarunning aspirants, Meghan, or.
Did you have like a wider rangeof, athletes

Meghan (37:34):
I do have a wider, um, range.
Most everybody is running ultramarathons.
some who run mostly marathons.
I did have a gentleman who wasin his seventies who was
competing at a master's level,like in the 800 meters, and he
was so much fun to coach he wastrying do well in his age group
on the track and that was superfun.

Kush (37:54):
Yeah, I was actually going to ask you if there are any, uh,
people you coach or others inyour milieu who are, uh, also
setting examples of, achieving,the high bar with aging.
Obviously you are one of them,but it sounds like this
gentleman is, is anothersomebody who, uh, is inspiring

(38:15):
and, uh, loves running, uh,regardless of where he might be
with his life.

Meghan (38:20):
Right.
That's one of the nice thingsabout.
USA track and field is they dohave recognition recognition
for, um, age groups, um, at thenational level and they are, you
know, track meets that they cango to and, you know, do the best
in the country on the 800 metersfor 70 to 74 year old, you know,
that's that's pretty special dayand they can do that.

Kush (38:42):
You peaked in your fifties.
Do you think that's, uh,somewhat, common now for, uh,
ultra runners or people peakingat that age, maybe younger,
maybe older?
I don't know.

Meghan (38:54):
I think, again, it depends on how long they've been
running.
from age 40 to 50.
I ran very consistent marathon.
My, my PR in the marathon is 245and I did that over the span of
10 years and then I started toslow down.
but had I done that from mythirties might have best been my

(39:15):
thirties to my forties.
I'm not sure.
Maybe I could have kept going upto my fifties, but, so I think
it's really how long anathlete's been doing it, um,
like, how long did it take youto get there to achieve that
peak?
And then how long can you holdon to it?

Kush (39:31):
Yeah.
It's the, uh, quantum of workthat's preceded it.
And then the sustenance at thatlevel.
As you coach other, uh, otherathletes and actually as you
have.
Seeing other people progressthrough their careers, are
there, are there any common,let's say, mistakes people make

(39:52):
as they transition from, let'ssay, shorter races to ultra runs
and you're like, oh, gosh, youknow, people should.
should not do that.
They should stop doing this, butthey should continue doing that.
But then they should also domore of this other thing.

Meghan (40:05):
I think the main thing that runners get a little little
hung up on if they're comingfrom the roads is their pace.
And, you know, expecting theirpace to be not too far off from
what they ran on the roads.
And it's one of those questionsyou get like, you know, you run
a hundred miles and like, howlong did it take you?
Oh, it took 24 hours.

(40:26):
What kind of pace is that?
I mean, I do know now, well,it's a 15 minute pace.
But I'm not running 15 minutepace for 24 hours.
I'm running, sometimes I'm 20minute pace, sometimes I'm 10
minute pace, sometimes I'm 6minute pace.
It all depends on on theterrain.
it's one of the first things youwant people to let go of is,
just don't think about pace.
Because it's just, it's notworth it.

Kush (40:48):
That's such a big difference because, marathon
runners are very pace obsessed,right?

Meghan (40:52):
Yeah.
So I think It yeah.
It is, and I think, most peopletake it apart in distance
between aid stations, andthey'll, really want to geek
out, they'll look at, like,okay, I have a goal time of 20
hours at Western States.
They'll go and look at the,runners in the past that have
done 20 hours and then they'lldownload the, splits for these

(41:14):
runners and they'll study alltheir splits and they'll average
them out and they're like, okay,well, I think if I'm more like
this runner, so I'm going to getto this aid station at this time
and this aid station at thistime, and so they get obsessed
over that sort of thing, howlong is it going to take to get
to these aid stations?
And it still isn't pace.
They're not like looking at, oh,and it's this pace.
It's like, okay.
This is how much time it took.
I think it's going to take meabout the same or something like

(41:36):
that.
Yeah, different obsession.

Kush (41:38):
Got it.

Meghan (41:39):
I do think awareness is is coming along, but.
That transitioning from road totrail first of all, understand
it's going to take longer andthen prepare yourself with fuel,
you know, make sure that you'vegot fuel with you and, you know,
a decent hydration pack and allthose things that are a little

(42:00):
more necessary because it does.
It takes longer.

Kush (42:03):
Absolutely.
yeah, good segue into Anotherlistener question.
A friend of mine who's a ultrarunner and a rock climber from
India, Mohit Oberoi, he wantedto ask you about your diet.
How do you fuel yourself duringa race and what are you eating

(42:24):
when you're not running

Meghan (42:26):
when I'm not running, basically a whole foods, I like
food to look like it, like thesource it came from.
I avoid highly processed foods.
I like to, eat rice andvegetables and meat, you know,
sourced locally, not taintedwith antibiotics and hormones.
And, I grew up on a farm, soit's sort of how I ate growing

(42:47):
up.
I just don't do junk most of thetime.
Sometimes, but it's pretty rare.

Kush (42:53):
do you watch your, uh, nutrient intake as well, like
the balance between the largernutrient types, carbs versus
protein fats, anysupplementation that you take
that has worked for you, maybesomething that has not worked
for you.

Meghan (43:10):
I don't count my macros, but I am currently working on
consuming more protein.
This is very important for postmenopausal women because we lose
muscle mass when we lose ourestrogen.
So I do supplement with a wheypowder.
when I remember.
it's not it's not very tasty,but when I remember to do that,

(43:34):
I will add like sardines or, youknow, they're not local, but
they are a very good source of,of protein.
And so I will often just throw acan of sardines on whatever I'm
eating.
I take vitamin D cause I live inthe Northwest and it's really
disgusting and gray here most ofthe time.
I take creatine, which is alsoshown in women, especially to

(43:57):
help maintain muscle mass.
I take a variety of immunesupport, mushroom immune
support, and I take ashwagandhafor stress because postmenopause
now I'm a stressed person.
I was like, I don't know whatthat's about.
But anyway, there's somethingelse.
I'm on hormone therapy forpostmenopause also.

(44:18):
that's because, for one thing, Ihave anxiety that I didn't have
before, I still have vasomotorissues with heat.
at night.
and also I have osteoporosis,which is genetic.
Both my grandmother and mymother have had osteoporosis, so
I'm on medication for that.
And, um, that's again where I'msurprised I haven't had a stress

(44:39):
fracture, but I think mymechanics must be helping me out
in that in that sense, because,um, pretty thin bones.
so those are the the supplementsI take and and they're helping
for and then when I'm racing, Iactually do almost all liquids.
I don't generate any spit whenI'm running and I just have the

(45:02):
worst time trying to ingestfood.
I mean, it just doesn't want togo down.
So, I've been pretty lucky thatI can drink.
Um, most sports drinks, I haveto be a little bit picky about
them.
The big molecules like amaltodextrin don't absorb very
well, but some of the um, theglucose sucrose, those ones I

(45:25):
can, um, get in pretty well.
And then I will stop at an aidstation and I'll eat bananas.
I can get bananas down.
I can also drink chocolate milk.
I will drink chocolate milk whenI have a drop bag or if I have
crew.
Um, but generally if I just keepdrinking the sports drink, um,
and even soda.

(45:45):
I mean, I've done a lot on soda.
it's calories.
They go in and that can keep megoing better than trying to eat
a sandwich.
It's just like I'm gonna fail.

Kush (45:56):
Sure.

Meghan (45:57):
Yeah.

Kush (45:58):
Yeah.
It sounds like some, some hardone lessons

Meghan (46:01):
when I have tried just to eat food, I just get way
behind on calories because Ijust won't power through and get
it down.
Um, but I know I can drink a 200calorie bottle of electrolytes
and that keeps me going.

Kush (46:15):
It's so, so fascinating that you can run continuously
for.
hours and hours without needingsolid food.
Are you doing a lot of like,let's say, nutrition loading pre
race?
Is that how you have, uh,

Meghan (46:32):
Not really.
I mean, I do go in with myglycogen stores are pretty high,
but because I haven't, I won'thave run much that during that
week.
So anything I'm going to eat isgoing to be stored.
Um, so yeah, I'll get throughthat.
And we, you know, we're at a lowintensity and when we're at low
intensity, we're burning a lotof fat anyway.
You don't even have, you don'tnecessarily have to train your

(46:54):
body to burn fat.
We already do it most of thetime by our low intensity
running.
It's nothing really magicalabout it.
So, um.
As long as you keep some sugarin there for your brain, you're
going to be accessing that.

Kush (47:07):
one of the key keywords is the level of intensity and, uh,
you know, what kind of, uh,stores are you burning through
these, through these efforts?
Like, for example, when I go ona long, like, uh, let's say day
long.
multi pitch or big wall climbs.
I know that I'm constantlyeating or trying to force food

(47:28):
down.
I know that if I try to do aliquid only thing, I would crash
and literally and figuratively,I would probably, probably
crash.
And I'm wondering if.
Even, even with these like lowerendurance, not, sorry, not low
endurance, um, yeah, thesedifferent types of like long
duration endurance efforts, thetypes of nutrition change.

(47:51):
And this is a little bit, uh,uh, maybe Hollywood or cliche,
but for example, I saw this, youknow, I don't know if you saw
NIAID, the movie about, uh, thiswoman who, did you see that
movie that who ran, who swamfrom,

Meghan (48:06):
Diana and I had.
Yeah.

Kush (48:07):
okay.
So one of the scenes in thatmovie, which I don't know, I
can't.
Get rid of is, uh, her in themiddle of her monstrous effort
stopping to slurp down pastawhile she's swimming and bobbing
up and down and she's slurpingher pasta and sounds like the

(48:28):
way she's fueling up is totallydifferent and I guess I don't,
didn't really mean to comparetwo very different sports, but
maybe there are different sportsand what you need as an ultra
runner is different than, uh, Asa swimmer.
And I don't even know if that'swhat all swimmers do.
I just happened to see that in aHollywood movie,

Meghan (48:45):
Right.
That's a good question.
I mean, there's people who runultras who can slurp down some
pasta to or eat a burrito or eatsome and I'm just not one of
those people.
Um, probably if I were swimminglike she did, I would probably
be drinking a milkshake orsomething.
I'm not sure i would get pastadown just at that level.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.

(49:05):
I've never tried it.

Kush (49:06):
maybe synopsis is maybe there are some guidelines with
ultra running or endurance, uh,types of, uh, events where you
want to do ABC, but then a lotof that also comes with.
the individual and what worksfor them and what they have
learned and applied over, over aperiod.

(49:27):
And maybe there is no substitutefor learning,

Meghan (49:30):
That's absolutely right, and that's one of the key things
that I have my athletes do is ontheir long runs, practice your
nutrition and your hydrationthat you're going to use in the
race so that there's, you know,no surprises when, Oh, I'm using
this goo.
I have never used this beforeand and I'm sick.
And it's like, well, did Youpractice with it?
You know, having said that, Ialways say, you know, they say,

(49:54):
don't try anything new on raceday.
Well, if everything that you've

Kush (49:58):
And,

Meghan (50:01):
wise.
isn't working, you gotta trysomething else because you gotta
get something in.
So that's the only time I'llsay, well, if something looks
good, try it.

Kush (50:11):
you know, a race day for an ultra run, like you said, you
know, it's not like you're doingone every weekend.
You might only do that a fewtimes a year.
So one has to use that as anopportunity to do a little bit
of experimentation.
Otherwise you would never learnnew things.
If you didn't try new things,moving on to a subject that, you

(50:34):
touched on very briefly.
Around aging and menopause forwomen.
How have you seen menopauseaffect your running and what are
you doing about it?
And.
Maybe some, words of wisdom for,for both menopausal and, uh,

(50:56):
perimenopausal women on how theyshouldn't get discouraged and
should continue, uh, certainthings and, and move forward.

Meghan (51:06):
that's a really great question.
menopause effects didn't reallyhit me until I was probably five
years post menopause, so thatwas a little surprising.
I just suddenly and probablywasn't suddenly, but it felt
like suddenly I was havingtrouble like jogging up mild
hills and I was flummoxed.

(51:27):
I like, I don't know what'sgoing on, you know, and I was
talking to a friend and I'mlike.
I can handle slowing down.
That's part of, you know, thewhole cardio system.
Our hearts don't, you know, beatas fast as they used to.
So, of course, we're not gonnabe able to run as fast, but this
is ridiculous.
And so she handed me a book andit's, um, oh, I'm going to
forget the authors.
One of them is Avram, A V R U M.

(51:49):
Um, can't remember the woman'sname.
Um, physicians who, well, he's aphysician and she's It's a
psychologist, I think.
But anyway, the book is EstrogenMatters.
Fascinating book, um, especiallyif you're a science geek, which
I am, um, debunking the mythsaround using, um, hormone

(52:09):
therapy for post menopause anddiabetes.
Um.
I read that.
I'm like, I need I need somehormones back.
the first doctor I went to,said, Oh, well, we don't
prescribe those unless you'rejust having severe hot flashes.
And I'm like, okay, I'm going togo to a different doctor.
And I did.
So that's lesson number one,find someone who will listen to

(52:30):
you and treat this as not adisease, but an actual thing
that happens in your life.
And You have, okay.
You know, it could be years ofdealing with it.
So the doctor I have now, heprescribed sort of typical
hormone replacement ofprogesterone and estrogen.
And he's the one who then said,let's get your bones scanned
because you probably areosteoporotic.

(52:52):
so that was the first thing Idid, went on hormone therapy and
I did start to feel.
A little more normal again.
and then I took Stacey Sims, um,course.
Stacey Sim is is a PhD inexercise science focusing on,
um, Women in sport.
And she's written two books.
Uh, one is called Roar and it'ssubtitle is Women are not small

(53:16):
men.
that's coming from the fact thatso many human studies are done
on men and particularly, youknow, usually a certain age
group.
and then applying it toeverybody.
And that women were excludedfrom research because we have
hormones.
It's like, well, you're damnright we have hormones and
that's why you need to study usso we can have quality of life.

(53:40):
You know, just because we can'tmake babies anymore, why should
we not have quality of life?
So anyway, that got me, um, moreunderstanding the physiology,
um, behind what happens when ourestrogen basically disappears,
estradiol.
yeah, I learned it.
Okay.
Estrogen is an anabolic hormonefor women and meaning it makes

(54:01):
our muscles.
So as we lose our estradiol, ourmuscle mass begins to diminish.
Taking estrogen doesn't reversethat.
It can help with other symptomslike the vasomotor, the hot
flashes and mood.
heavy lifting, you know,strength training with heavy
weights stimulates muscle cellsto, produce more muscle mass and

(54:27):
can regain, muscle and maintainmuscle.
So that was the main takeawayfrom that and high intensity
interval training, hip trainingor sprint training.
All of those things helpstimulate muscle.
And so I have incorporatedstrength training into my.
Routine, and I try to makemyself.

(54:47):
Emphasize that strength trainingover running because I'm not
going to forget how to run and Ican run for a really long time.
I don't really like the strengthtraining, but as again, it's
like that medicine I need totake if I want to continue to
It's one thing like, well, I canslog through a race, but it's
not going to be much fun.
I want to perform.
And that's how I felt at thatrace in New Zealand at Tarawera.

(55:11):
tell me the last 10 miles.
I didn't feel like I was reallyperforming anymore as much as
struggling to the finish line,but, it's an improvement for
sure from where I was when thiswhole thing sort of came
crashing down on me.

Kush (55:24):
Fascinating.
a couple of reflections.
sounds like you had a, like,maybe almost like a distinct
episode with your heart flasheswhile you were running, where
you.
felt that this was this sort ofonset of menopause that was the,
uh, the culprit I'll ask acouple of questions and I'll let
you answer.
So is that, is that somewhatcommon for, for women athletes,

(55:48):
or you feel a certain event andyou know, that, that might be a
body changing or is it morecommon where women are feeling a
more gradual.
Shift in, performance, mood,behavior.
So, that's one, question.
The second is just a simplereflection.

(56:09):
And maybe you can confirm that,as I'm talking to other athletes
and even coaches, people tell methat, strength training,
especially with heavy weightsis.
like a magic cure for all theathletes.
And it sounds like you'reconfirming even for, this kind
of athlete, which is, menopausalor postmenopausal women that

(56:31):
other things one should do ornot do, but strength training
should in most cases.
only help with aging.

Meghan (56:40):
first answer for me, it was, I, I wasn't having a hot
flash during the run.
It was more like I lacked.
any steam, like any oomph, likeI, like I'm ever going to get to
the top of this hill that I usedto sort of charge up.
I had no charge left.
I'm like, you know, I can beslow, but how about some power,
you know, some sort of strength.
But I think I just sort oftotally bottomed out.

(57:01):
So that was that part.
but it's incredibly variable.
It's variable in terms of age ofonset of symptoms, like man,
again, mine weren't until postmenopause, like for five years,
I thought I breeze through that.
That's not a problem.
for a lot of women, it's, youknow, starts perimenopause, you
know, 5, 10 years of.

(57:22):
Vague symptoms.
or big symptoms.
Um, and these are the reasonsthat, you know, you need to find
a provider who who is wellinformed and can help you
navigate the symptoms thatyou're having and not just, you
know, poo poo them and say, Oh,you'll be fine.
You'll get through this.
And then I'll be over with findsomeone that can help you with
your symptoms.

(57:43):
it's very quite variable andthen the, the strength training,
I mean, there's no panacea.
We're not going to or, you know,get young again or feel as
strong as we ever did, but wecan hold on to the muscle that
we have.
We can build some of it backand.
Feel like during a race, feelstrong, you know, and that's

(58:06):
what I like.
I like to feel strong.
I like to feel like I'm puttinga good effort in and not just
along a trail and, and, youknow, I'll get done someday.
That doesn't float my boat atall.
It's like, I want to feelstrong.
I want to feel gritty again, youknow, and I feel like I got some
grit and I'm, you know, diggingin.
I think strength training and,high intensity interval

(58:27):
training, those really are keyto that.
And when, you know, we talkabout lifting heavy, it's a five
rep max.
you know, something that'sreally hard to do.
Not 20 reps of something that's,oh I can do that, I'll rest a

(58:47):
minute, I can do 20 more.
That's not what we're after.

Kush (58:50):
Thanks for clarifying that difference that it was not a hot
flash, but it was this sudden,uh, Lost of power that you are
accustomed to, or maybe, youknow, that you have and that
suddenly, uh, disappeared andthe thing with lifting heavy, it
is interesting.
I've been lifting weights offand on for most of my adult life

(59:14):
and you always see this andmaybe this is somewhat
anecdotal, but you always seethis phenomena where the men are
doing that heavy lifting thingand the women are out there, uh,
with the lighter weights andmultiple reps.
And that, as I used to see that25 years ago, I still see that,

(59:35):
that phenomena.
And I really wish that, I don'tknow, wherever people are
getting their education wishthat would change

Meghan (59:41):
women fear they're going to bulk up and we don't really,
most women are not going to bulkup.
but you will get muscle mass andthat's what you want.
You want to be strong.
And it also, it's really goodfor your bones.
I'm not going to say, you know,doing high reps with dumbbells
that are light, isn't bad foryou.
You know, I think that's great.
You're exercising.

(01:00:01):
That's really good.
You're moving your joints,probably getting some tone.
but if you really want to.
Really to be strong, strong,lifting the heavy weights is the
way to go.

Kush (01:00:11):
I agree.
And not to sound facetious, butunless women started taking.
Testosterone injections, youknow, and lifting heavy.
They're not going to bulk up,you know.
we have, we have differentbodies and, different
stimulants, but the benefits of,uh, strength training are,
universal.
I know my mom is going to listento this at some point.

(01:00:32):
So mom, I hope you are, uh,taking note.
Moving on, I know time isflying.
How long, Meghan, do you thinkyou can, uh, keep pushing
yourself and also maybe deeper?
How are you preparing for aging,for, uh, for getting older, that
is?

Meghan (01:00:49):
hasn't been super gracious so far.
but I, I guess that's what Iwant to work on is being a
little more, I want to beaccepting, but I don't want to
be passive about it.
I want to accept it but I kindof want to accept it with a
grain of salt.
You know, it's like, I don'twant to give up.
I'll put it that way.
It's like, I want to, you know,keep doing what I'm doing.

(01:01:13):
And not be hard on if, you know,when I see that my time was,
ugh, really?
Not be hard on myself.
Stop doing that and reflect onhow I felt while I did it and
how I feel after I did it and,you know, be glad that I did it.
but not to like, give up at thesame time.

Kush (01:01:34):
Your life and your accomplishments seem quite
exemplary.
Are you satisfied with yourself?

Meghan (01:01:41):
Yeah, I think I am.
I can accept that.
Yeah, I've been pretty lucky.
Like I've, I've traveled theworld because I run and that
just seems ridiculous to mebecause it's running, and I've
cultivated so many greatfriendships, around the world.
through running, I've been ableto sort of make the world seem

(01:02:03):
smaller.
Which I think is so importantyou know, you and climbing and
talking to people and sharingour humanity.
you know, it's gotta be betterfor the planet.
it's, just gotta be.
I mean, it's, I mean, so manyhorrible things going on in the
world, caused by humanity, andit's like, well, if more people
just get outside and connect,the better off we'll be.

(01:02:25):
Um,

Kush (01:02:26):
Absolutely, and I'm glad you're not too hard on yourself
you do feel what seems to me hasbeen a life Well lived how are
you preparing though for thenext decade 20 years?

Meghan (01:02:40):
I think, honestly, emphasizing other things that I
like.
Like I said, I love playingflute and saxophone, and those
are things that have just reallynot gotten my attention over the
years.
It does both with running andworking a more full time job,
um, you know, now coaching ismore like, you know, part time,
or half time, so I could fill itwith more running, but I don't.

(01:03:03):
Need to, and I don't think itwould be good for me.
so, but playing my instrumentsand being in, you know, a couple
different bands is reallysatisfying and I can see that
part of my life actually gettingbetter.
I can be, always be bettermusician.
until my fingers slow down, Iguess.
I don't know.
Hopefully they won't.

(01:03:24):
and it's so much, it's so goodfor my brain.
so I, I look forward tocontinuing to get better at
music.
and I'll just run as much as, asI can without, thinking, Oh,
this, you know, this is too hardto do anymore.
We'll just do less.

Kush (01:03:38):
I I recently heard some wise sage say that always good
to be a beginner at somethingand you don't sound like a
beginner.
You are playing in a band.
And by the way, if you ever comeby San Francisco, I would love
to see your show, but soundslike it's an area where you're
finding learning and growth andprogression where with running

(01:04:02):
you obviously get enormoussatisfaction.
You have.
Push yourself a long time.
So I play the Congress a littlebit.
I'm not qualified to play in anyband, but I also love banging
away.
Uh, it's, it's good for me in,in all kinds of ways.
So you have your music and youhave your other, uh, ventures,

(01:04:26):
including coaching, which soundslike that also gives you a
fulfillment and, A way to giveback in the last five years,
Meghan, what new belief behavioror habit has most, uh, improved
your life?

Meghan (01:04:44):
Getting divorced.
It's true, honestly.
I learned a lot.
That's good.
Yeah.

Kush (01:04:58):
That sounds like a not insignificant, life event.

Meghan (01:05:01):
Correct.

Kush (01:05:02):
Powerful yet 600 answer.

Meghan (01:05:05):
No one's asked me that before.
Huh?
That kind of seems like it waspretty life changing.

Kush (01:05:10):
A couple other, questions before we, wrap it up.
If there was a giant billboardout there.
there was a message you could,write for the world.
What would it say?
Peace.
Yes, we need peace.
You are obviously a keen reader.
We talked about a few booksalready that you, you mentioned.

(01:05:30):
We will link to them.
Any other book that you readrecently that, or actually book,
it could be another kind ofmedia as well.
I don't know if you watchmovies.

Meghan (01:05:41):
I listen to audio books, but it's not one of those, you
know, I don't think about it alot.
I'm sort of, it's entertainment

Kush (01:05:48):
When you're on these long runs, are you, vibing with
nature or are we vibing withnature?
And are you also, to something?

Meghan (01:05:57):
I am vibing with nature and trying to keep my two dogs
in control.
They're, working dogs.
they're come from the herdingstock.
So I got them for that reason.
So they could run with me allday and they're lovely.
they're wonderful.
But I don't listen to music.
I like to just, you know, be innature and hear that with a
caveat.
If there is a, you know, areally important ultra happening

(01:06:21):
that's being live streamed, Iwill listen

Kush (01:06:25):
there is one other like, uh, question that I neglected.
If you have time, one thing thatI'm also exploring is there is
so much, uh, more mediaattention on younger athletes.
And this is again, somethingthat Carling pointed out to me,
which is that she would muchrather get an endorsement, so to

(01:06:47):
speak for a product or somethingelse from.
you rather than a 20 year oldperson that she doesn't relate
to.
Why do you think the industryhas been so slow recognizing the
importance of older athletes

Meghan (01:07:06):
I feel the same.
I'll represent your brand.
I think there's a lot of peoplein my age group that would, you
know, identify with me and buyyour product.
But what I know isproportionally, really, how many
are there?
How many are, how many 50 yearolds are there versus how many
20 to 50 year olds are there?

(01:07:27):
And I mean, it's, it's, I thinka tradition that's hard to Break
from, I'm guessing, it's like,you know, sex sells.
These young, pretty, people, youknow, even if they last for two
years and then they're gone,they're just gonna go to the
next young, beautiful person,

Kush (01:07:41):
Yeah, I think when it comes to mass marketing, hard to
argue with evolutionary forces,but when it comes to the ability
of the world we live in todaywhere one can be very picky and
about the person that we chooseto be influenced by.
because again, it's not, maybenot always the, the number of

(01:08:04):
followers you have, but it'sabout the depth of the
relationship the followers havewith you that I think is more
important.

Meghan (01:08:13):
I do have like, I don't know, 2, 500 followers or
something on Instagram and it'slike, well, I don't really know
that many people, but I feelit's better than like having 10,
000 followers.
There's just no way you couldknow them.
I think on every podcast, I saythis, like, I'd be happy to
sponsor, you know, where yourlogo, you know, happy to travel
the world on your behalf.

(01:08:34):
You know, I, you know, I've beensponsored in the past.
it is a little bit of kick inthe gut when you're like, they
drop you and it's like, well, Iknow why they dropped me is
because, because I'm aging.
I haven't had any, you know,major injuries that have
sidelined me for years.
And while she's not even outthere anymore, I'm still out
there.

Kush (01:08:51):
And you're out there and you're crushing, I mean, you
have think a band of people outthere who need to find and
discover you because.
They want to be inspired and,athletes like you will provide
the relatability that they areseeking.
note to potential sponsors, uh,find Meghan because if you

(01:09:12):
support Meghan, then Meghan's,uh, followers will be supporting
you.
And just final, two questions,I'm sure your dogs are waiting
to go out for you for an eveninguh run you mentioned Western
States was your favorite run anyrun or any place in the world
you haven't, had the pleasure ofrunning in that you would love
to check out.

Meghan (01:09:33):
I have not been to South America.
been to, you know, pretty mucheverywhere else.
I've been to Asia.
I've been to Europe.
Oceana.
I have not, been to SouthAmerica.
So I need to

Kush (01:09:45):
One place I would recommend I spent a few months
in South America last year is,Peru and Juarez in Peru.
It's a mountain town, uh, allkinds of, fun mountain
activities.
last question, we talked aboutfood briefly.
What is one food that you couldeat every day?

Meghan (01:10:04):
Oh, I think I could probably eat.
with pesto every day.

Kush (01:10:08):
Ooh, would you make your own pasta and pesto?

Meghan (01:10:12):
I make my own pesto?
when my garden isn't in themiddle of winter.
And if I had frozen enough overthe summer.

Kush (01:10:19):
Are you traditional with your pesto with let's say pine
nuts?
And they sell, or I recentlymade a pesto with walnuts and
arugula, turned out well.

Meghan (01:10:29):
Yeah, I've it with arugula before.
I think I've used walnuts also.
but lots of garlic

Kush (01:10:36):
Parmesan or no parmesan

Meghan (01:10:37):
I put parmesan in it.

Kush (01:10:39):
Cheese, or should I say parmesan?
makes everything better.
Meghan, it's been a delight.
You are such an inspiration.
Thank you for what you do.

Meghan (01:10:49):
Thank you for having me and asking me fun questions.

Kush (01:10:52):
Thanks a lot.
Wow.

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#12 Meghan Canfield - Ultra-running Powerhouse, Peaking in her fifties, Overcoming Menopause, Truths for Training and for Life

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#12 Meghan Canfield - Ultra-running Powerhouse, Peaking in her fifties, Overcoming Menopause, Truths for Training and for Life