#16 Hans Florine - El Capitan’s Speed King on Staying Alive, Gender Representation on Big Walls, and Power of Visualization - Ageless Athlete - Stories and Secrets of Adventure Sports Icons

Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Folks welcome back to theageless athlete podcast.
This is your host KushKhandelwal.
And in today's pod, we visitYosemite national park with none
other than Mr.
El Capitan.
Hand flooring himself.
Hans has repeatedly set andbroken.
One of the most coveted speedrecords in the world, the nose

(00:28):
of El Capitan.
The most.
Storied big vol in the world.
Eight different times.
In 2012 hands alongside climbingpartner, Alex.

Kush (00:39):
Honnold.
To good record again in twohours and 23 minutes lowering
the previous record by a full 30minutes.
Hence also holds numerous otherspeed records in Yosemite
national park.
And all over the globe.
Hence also won the firstinternational speed climbing
championships in 91.

(01:00):
And has held the us nationaltitle 11 times.
He won gold at the ESPN X gamesthree years in a row.
Hans is a pleasure to chat withknowledgeable articulate.
Get humble and funny in a wayonly the most successful and
grateful amongst us can be.
Hence shared stories previouslyuntold.

(01:23):
Including advice on stayinghealthy.
Taking on hard challenges,willfully.
And his reflections on aginggracefully.
And stay tuned until the end, aswe have some exciting giveaways
to announce from handsome self.
As well as the sponsors.
Coro smartwatches and fizzyvantage nutrition.

(01:45):
Products.
Monday Morning, April 1 todaybut today is not an April fool's
day joke.
We really do have Hans Florine,Mr.
El Capitan on the show.
Excited to dive into differenttopics with Hans.
Hans is obviously known for.
Climbing a lifetime in Yosemite.

(02:07):
Hans, let me begin by justasking you this.
Is climbing on El Capitan andthe nose is a still as
captivating to you.
As the first time you.
laid your eyes on it.

Hans (02:20):
Oh yeah.
I mean, captivating is a greatword to use.
I mean, there's thousands ofwords to use for El Cap and none
of them will really captureunless you're standing there at
the base and maybe you have toclimb it too, but, I'm up to 177
ascents of the nose, so I'm notthe nose, sorry, of El Cap, I've
done 26 different routes on ElCap, 117 times on the nose, the

(02:42):
others are all the othersmattering of roots, I'll point
out often, uh, when I'm goaround speaking, whether it's a
bank or construction company or,you know, REI or, uh, climbing
gym, like where, where isYosemite and why is Yosemite
this Mecca where it draws peoplefrom around the world?
And I point out that, you know,3000 feet is.

(03:04):
An amazing giant chunk ofgranite and it's, you know, a
mile and a half wide rocks thattall and that big do exist in
other places in the world.
if you go to Baffin Island,you're talking about a float
plane or a sailboat or somethingto get to the base, right?
If you're talking about,Kazakhstan, you're talking
about, a three day trek withYaks, or if you're daring

(03:26):
enough, get into a Russianhelicopter, right?
To get to the base.
Yosemite.
you have a 15 minute walk fromyour car door to the base of the
3000 foot cliff, which is justthis combination of wild terrain
and crazy easy accessibility,right?
That those are the two thingscombined that make El Capitan

(03:47):
amazing.
Huge, gigantic, wild, and it'sreally accessible, right?
I named more things there than Iwanted to, but just basically,
fantastic, big, reallyaccessible.

Kush (04:00):
It is absolutely.
a marvel of nature that, there'sthis beautiful valley that
people can drive right into andset their eyes on El Capitan.
a short walk, if they decide todo that, or if they take their
binoculars out, they canactually, actually maybe even

(04:20):
with the naked eyes, they canspot people on the climb.
And, uh, I think that is onehuge reason, like you said, like
just the approach for all kindsof people, climbers and non
climbers alike.
Yes, I've climbed a bit inYosemite, but then also taking
people out there for the firsttime and having their faces, uh,

(04:42):
light up.
that is such a pleasing sight.
talking, of taking people, newpeople to Yosemite.
You have taken all kinds ofpeople over the years and taking
them up the nose.
You have taken beginners.
You have taken adaptiveclimbers.
I can only imagine how much workthat must be.

(05:05):
What compels you to put in somuch hard work to share this
climb with others?

Hans (05:11):
I think that any guide, or someone who introduces
something, an activity to peoplethat are new to it, whether
it's, like surfing, you takepeople out surfing and they're
just so psyched and, you know,maybe amazed by your skill, it's
really helpful.
They're just so big, brighteyed, this natural free ride
that the waves give them, or itcould be kayaking, or it could

(05:32):
be rappelling a guide knowsthis, that, like you're getting
to relive how crazy, you know,obsessed you were with climbing
those first months and yearsthat you climbed and how, cool
it is.
I mean, for climbers, it's thephysical movement.
You're problem solving with thetip of your fingers to the tip

(05:53):
of your toes and using yourhead.
And it's also.
You know, outdoor climbing takesyou to places that are amazing.
Right.
that's, that's why I say thosetwo different things.
You know, there's a physicalexperience of you're using every
muscle in your body, a beginner,when they come down, they've
been holding on for dear life.
Right.
And for that, whatever they canhold on for two to seven minutes
to get to the top of a 20 footwall in a climbing gym, they

(06:15):
were thinking about.
One thing, that wall, how can Iget up?
How can I not maybe die?
They're so scared and they comedown and every muscle in their
body is tight.
And it's kind of this physicalmeditation, right?
So that's this one part is thephysical.
And the other is just Takingcontrol of your scene as part of
the nature thing.
Like I want to climb that rockover there, that.

(06:38):
Mountain or that terrain and I'mgoing to find a way to get up
it.
So there's this not so much puffyour chest out of conquering
things.
I mean, we all know the famousquote from Warren Harding, you
know, El Cap look a lot betterthan me.
Um, all this to say that, youknow, you're getting to venture
out into these incredible placesand experience incredible
places.
So not pairing up with the sameold experience partner on El Cap

(07:01):
means I get to see and be partof this.
Amazing first time with peopleon El Cap.
I mean, when you get to the topof the cliff after being on it
two days, three days or a longday, and being on it, it's, you
see it in people's face andyou're reliving it yourself.
You get all that same energy.

Kush (07:18):
I experienced the same kind of pleasure when I take
people climbing.
I haven't taken anybody up ElCap but I've taken some new
people up some multi pitchroutes, single pitch routes and
to see their, their reticenceand their nervousness and their
fear slowly transform into joy.

(07:40):
and delight.
That gives me, just so.
much pleasure.
It makes me think that whateverI'm doing, has some worth.
So I just love asking thisquestion and particularly asking
you because this is not just amulti pitch climb or a single
pitch climb.
This is taking somebody up,maybe the most iconic rock

(08:02):
climb.
And, uh, yeah, thanks for, uh,introducing this climb to, to so
many people.
Could you just summarize Hans,if you can, because we have
listeners to the show who arenot all avid rock climbers that
obsess over, El Capitan.
Could you just summarize if it'spossible, what does it entail?

(08:23):
a normal ascent versus some ofthe ascents you do when you're
climbing the nose Really quickly

Hans (08:29):
you know, if people get to check out pictures and stuff,
I'm going to just hold up thebook, but we'll put pictures on
the post for Instagram andstuff.
you know, let's for that personthat's out there in the world,
listen, doesn't, they don't,they're starting at zero.
Yosemite, El Capitan is inYosemite.
Yosemite is in California andYosemite is about a four hour

(08:50):
drive from San Francisco.
Um, If the listener doesn't knowwhere San Francisco, you can, of
course, Google, you can GoogleEl Capitan, of course, but
there's the verbal description,right?
We're in Yosemite Park, which isin California, which is four
hours from San Francisco, whichis in the United States, the
Western Seaboard.
this wall was first ascended byWarren Harding, um, Wayne Mary

(09:14):
and George Whitmore in 1958.
They spent 33 days, spread outover 18 months, rigging lines on
it and got two thirds of the wayup.
And they did a final push of 12days.
They were lived eight slept onthe wall for 12 days and they
made it to the top.
It's 3000 feet tall.
And so if you look at thetallest building in New York,

(09:36):
it's twice as high as thetallest building in New York.
Um, the Dubai tower, which isthe tallest building in the
world, also known as the BurjKhalif, is 2, 550 feet.
So El Cap is 500 feet tallerthan or about 500 feet taller
than the Bird Khalif.
Since 1958, people have climbedit in over multiple days.

(09:58):
The first time it was climbed ina single day was 1975.
And they coined that as Nose ina Day or NIAD is a big
abbreviation a lot of peopleuse.
This season, 2024, the averageparty.
We'll take not two days or threedays or four days.
The average party will fail toclimb it.

(10:20):
That's what's something prettyamazing about is that half the
parties or third, the partiesthat go to the base and try to
climb it will back off becauseit was too hard for them.
So that makes the averageinfinite, right?
But those that succeed still,the average is probably two or
three days, three days to climbthe route.
And.

(10:41):
Nose in a day is commonly doneby exceptionally experienced
Yosemite climbers.
Nice,

Kush (10:49):
Amazing.
Thank you for Indulging us withthat Description that book of
yours on the nose.
Hans,.
I'll confess It had been sittingon my bookshelf And then our,
uh, recording just got scheduledon the last minute and I
scrambled to dust it off andstart reading it.
And I have heard you speak and Ihave seen videos and it's been,

(11:14):
present or omnipresent allthrough my 20 year long climbing
career.
But I started reading it and Iwas captivated.
The.
your story of, of starting ofyour first trip there and of
your first attempt there and thewriting as well.
It, it really is grippingstorytelling, whether you are a

(11:35):
climber or you're not a climber.
I think it's a, it's a wonderfulbook.
And, uh, I'm 45 percent throughas what Kindle tells me.
And I know that we will finishrecording And uh, tonight I'll
get back to that book so I canget back to the rest of the
story

Hans (11:51):
And for, hey, your listeners, it's on Audible and
iTunes, and you can alsodownload it straight from my
house, my uh, my website.
Yeah.

Kush (11:58):
and, uh, even more exciting please stay on till the
end because we have, uh, somefun giveaways and one of them is
going to be a signed copy of thebook by Hans himself.
So, so stay tuned in.
So moving on, Hans,, one otherquestion that I, I was thinking
about when I was reading thisbook is in the climbing

(12:20):
community, we will sometimes goand do these climbing trips with
people we have just met.
I have done that.
I've looked.
Found people on mountainproject.
I found people at campsites andhave tied in and, uh, and gone
on and have had a beautifuladventure to non climbers.

(12:41):
That sounds, seems kind ofludicrous that we would trust
our life, quote unquote, withsomebody we don't know very
well.
And I was reading how, I thinkit was, I forget who, but you
have done that on the nose aswell.
you have gone and climbed this.
3000 foot wall with somebody youmay not have known well.

(13:04):
I want to ask you this.
So how do you or how do climbersend up trusting somebody they
don't know they might have justmet and do something like climb
3000 feet of vertical rock

Hans (13:23):
you know, anyone can, Watch somebody belay someone
else at the gym and go, okay, Isee they're safe, um, or see
that they're not safe.
And then you could approach themand ask if they want to go
outside climbing with you.
So there's always, you know,interview and test physically.
I think of it as like, you know,Warren Buffett, he's famous.

(13:44):
Investor.
He can probably look at a fewkey things about a business and
investment and tell you, youknow, and know whether he's
going to invest in it or not.
I think as we climb, you've beenclimbing 20 years, you can
assess by just the way peopletalk and, maybe you wouldn't
even have to watch them climb.
You'd know from things they saythat, you know, safety is
important to them.

(14:05):
I mean, by the mere fact thatsomebody's climbed 10 years,
that's good.
And they're standing in front ofyou, not in a wheelchair.
That's probably.
Number one, but did they climbonce in the last 10 years or
every weekend for 10 years?
You know, there's all theselittle things, but I think I'm
kind of like Warren Buffett.
Now I've been climbing 40 yearsand probably within a short

(14:27):
amount of time, I can assesssomebody's skill level.
And, you know, I probablywouldn't say no to climbing with
somebody that I thought was I'mnot going to say unsafe.
I'm going to say theirexperience with climbing is
maybe they don't pay enoughattention to how serious it is.
Cause somebody who is unsaferight now doesn't mean that I

(14:48):
couldn't make them safe whenthey're climbing with me.
safety is super important,right?
And, I've seen stories of peoplewho just don't get it.
Maybe their attention span,maybe their attitude, whatever.
And may climb with them never oronce and that's it.
all you people that I haven'tcalled back for the second time
climbing, it's because I loveclimbing with different people,
not because you're unsafe or youweren't fun to climb with.

(15:10):
yeah, I, I can't, you know, Ican't, I don't know what advice
to give people that aresearching on Mountain Project
or, um, Facebook or whatevergroups online, um, It's been
proposed, you know, by theAmerican Alpine Club to have a
AAC universal belay card thatyou've been tested to the same
standard as everyone else inthe, well, the country could be
the world if we did it right,but, um, and it's frustrating

(15:33):
for gym owners, right?
Like, and people going to a newgym, it's like the ski pass, you
have a bunch of ski passes onyour thing, you go to a climbing
gym, you got 17 belay cards,you're like, look, you don't
really need to test me, do you?
I've got all these belay cards,

Kush (15:46):
universal belay card.
I'm intrigued by the concept.
I'm also a little bit scared ofhow it might be implemented if
it ever, uh, sees light of dayAnd talking of belay cards, one
of my favorite things to noticeis you go outside climbing to
some remote part of the worldand people pull out their
harnesses from their bags.

(16:07):
And right on their belay loop,they might have like a
touchstone belay card on it orwhatever gym they go to.
And they're like, and then, youknow, I will ask them, Hey,
what's your name?
Which Tustin gym you climb atand they, are so surprised that
I'm like, you know, you nevertook your belay card off before
you boarded the plane to comeclimb in Greece.
So no surprise there.

Hans (16:25):
I try to be goofy and will wear mine most of the times at
crags, just so that no one elsefeels uncomfortable.
I don't know, but it's a great,it's kind of like a great
conversation starter too, youknow, like.
What t shirt you wear, or, youknow, if you're a Washington
Redskins fan, or I don't know,something like that, having your
belay card, I think we shouldn'tgive people a bad time.

Kush (16:45):
Absolutely.
yeah, safety is such animportant part of our sport.
You have spent more time onvertical terrain than, In some
ways, most people alive.
What may be a couple of specificthings Hans, that you have
adopted into your, uh, climbingroutine that have kept you safe?
I know that you may have had acouple of, uh, little skirmishes

(17:09):
while climbing For the mostpart, knock on wood, you've been
a safe climber.
Are there certain things thathave kept you safer despite
being able to climb really,really fast?

Hans (17:21):
I think of them is, um, the advantage of embracing many,
many partners is you learndifferent ways.
And I'm actually going to theAMGA.
SBI, Which is a single pitchinstructor course in May a month
from now.
and I know that there's certainlittle nuances of ways to do
things that they might prefer,and they say specifically in

(17:44):
their thing, there is more thanone way to be safe.
And I really appreciate readingthat in their, intro manual is
that there's more than one wayto be safe.
And if you learn by rote, at aclimbing gym, you know, past the
figure eight through this way,this way, and it comes out this
way.
I've seen people, you turn thefigure eight upside down and
they'll be like, Hey, thatdoesn't look right.

(18:05):
Okay, let me flip it over foryou.
And they're like, Oh, I knowthey've never looked at it from
the other side.
simple things like that, youknow, that's kind of.
Not being fair to people, butI've seen, you know, the
Europeans will wear the, they'lluse a, um, a screw link or a
quick link that you'd find at ahardware store here in a lot of
their clipping into things withaid, aiders and stuff.

(18:27):
And partly because I think it'scheaper, but it's a surefire
locked steel ring.
Um, and they may have some otherreasons for doing it.
But my point more is that whenyou learn these other ways that
are safe, Then you aren'tuncomfortable when you see
something well new becauseyou're like well I've seen this
is safe three ways, and here's afourth way I haven't seen

(18:49):
before, but if you only know oneway you'll be scared and you
know being scared or Ignorant isan unsafe Attitude or feeling to
have you need to constantlyeducate yourself on new ways to
do things or new to you anywayThey might not be new to the
other people

Kush (19:09):
Yeah, one can learn all kinds of techniques, including
safety practices, and usuallythey are kind of fused together.
The way people climb safety oradherence to safety is is
embedded in those routines andthe more one climbs.

(19:32):
with different people andapproaches new partners with
that spirit of learning andcuriosity can help that person
pick out those, those skills,which could help them with not
only the climbing itself butalso become a better, safer
climber.

(19:52):
And I think it takes a certainamount of experience to
recognize that, you know, onecan't just learn everything from
one person and maybe one persondoes.
ABC really well, but then XYZmay not as well.
And, uh, pick and choose thebest practices from the best
people.
And I think you have done that,you know, with some of your

(20:13):
early partners slash mentors,you were able to learn and do,
uh, You know, obviously, uh,some pretty trailblazing things
talking of having many partnersyou've had, you know, you've had
a diversity of partners over theyears.
Fun question.
What might be two or threefavorite qualities about that

(20:39):
partner?
And.
two or three qualities that werenot your favorite.
And sorry, not just from onepartner, but from different
partners.
Some things you loved about yourclimbing partner, some things
you absolutely detested.
And I say that also with notjust time on the rock, it could

(20:59):
be time outside the rockbecause, because as people know,
you know, when you sign up toclimb with somebody, you are
You're married to that personfor the time of the climbing
trip.
So you share experience, observeall kinds of things.
So yeah.
Curious.
What, what are some of those,things that you have, you have
enjoyed or not enjoyed over theyears

Hans (21:20):
well, let's, let's start with not enjoyed because I mean,
if effectively I can say quite.
solidly that if there's peoplethat have qualities I don't
enjoy, then I experienced itwith them once And I don't climb
with them again or don'tadventure with them again.
I don't try to change people toomuch.

(21:41):
So, um, cause I don't likepeople lecturing to me either.
something might be, this soundsvery like philosophical, but
somebody who's, interested inthe summit or the end, and not
so much, being present duringthe journey.
Um, it sounds veryphilosophical, but I point out
that Yosemite is a ditch.
And when you quote, top out onEl Cap or Half Dome, you're not

(22:04):
on top of a peak, like, youknow, some, uh, 2001 Space Audi
on top of an obelisk.
You've all, all you've done iscrawled out of a ditch.
You're not even at the highestpoint on the rim.
You still have to hike anothercouple hundred feet to get to.
Quote, the highest altitudepoint.
Nobody does.
Um, it's about that face ofclimbing the struggle for those
3000 feet, which that is aexcellent representation of

(22:28):
about the journey, not the end.
Right?
so people that go up with me fora half day or three quarter day
and we get rained off and we'relaughing as we're getting
soaking wet and we're shivering,you know, that type person that
is like, you.
Instead of crying, they'relaughing, you know, like we're
going to have a good story totell when we get back to the

(22:48):
bar, if we get back to the bartonight and have a hot chocolate
or whatever, hot toddy, that'sthe type of person I like to go
climbing with.
And, you know, to that, althoughI have suffered, Often when I do
public speaking for a bank, Ialways say bank or
pharmaceutical or whatever, Ihave to explain I'm not the m
word climber, which ismountaineer.

(23:08):
I'm a t shirt and shortsclimber.
I've dabbled in quite a bit ofmountaineering, but I really
like being present there withshirt off or t shirt and shorts
in the sun.
Over, you know, shivering in asnow cave and then bragging to
my buddy in the bar, like I'vesuffered more than you, I know
you haven't, I suffered evenworse, you know, there was a

(23:29):
time I was stuck in this snowcave for seven days or
something, you know, um, and Ido think, I don't know, I, when
someone says everyone should tryit once, I don't know, maybe you
shouldn't try mountaineeringonce, I've done it more than a
couple of times and done typetwo or one, whatever fun
suffering, and it's, it'sinteresting, but, um, yeah.

(23:50):
95 percent of my climbing thelast couple of decades has been
t shirts and shorts, sort ofsunny climbing weather.
so there I did, I get to thatquestion about partners.
Partners need to be competent,which doesn't mean they need to
climb hard.
They just need to be competentat the skills of the adventure
we're on, you know, and, andthat goes from every grade to

(24:12):
five, one to five, 14 need to becompetent and then they need to
be easygoing, easygoing, whichmeans Outcome doesn't matter.
We're, we're going to have funapplying the skills we have with
us to this, you know, thisterrain, whatever it is in front
of us.

Kush (24:28):
Mindset is indeed, uh, so important.
maybe even Trump's climbingskill.
Just, just being somebody whocan fundamentally appreciate
where they are and what they'redoing and take things in a
positive light, then they'renot.
Because end of the day, climbingis a recreational activity.

(24:50):
And, uh, just the fact thatwe're able to climb is such a
privilege.
One thing I was reading in yourbook, Hans, and, uh, which
struck a note was, I think itwas.
with Peter Croft or I forgetwho, I think it might've been
him or maybe somebody else.
But anyway, you were 25 and, uh,you were about midway up the

(25:14):
nose and, uh, you were, I think,quite exhausted or, nervous for
some reason, and you were not,ready to lead some pitch and you
asked your partner to switch offwith you and you reflected that
you had that kind of selfawareness at that age, which I

(25:36):
was also impressed by when I wasreading that because I know that
my ego has sometimes kept mefrom acknowledging some of those
constraints, fear, uh, fatigue,et cetera, when I'm climbing.
And I've sometimes made.
Decisions to continue climbinginstead of stopping or switching
leads because I was afraid tolook bad.

(25:59):
So I just want to say that thatis one quality that I also love
in a climbing partner, which isjust acknowledgement of where
they might be, because if theyundertake something that they're
not prepared for, it just putsthe entire team in jeopardy.

Hans (26:16):
Yeah.
And I'll say that at age 25 Iwas probably 15 years of
experience as an athlete,although I had only been
climbing six years then.
So I knew how to inventory myphysical body probably better
than most climbers that had beenonly climbing five or six years.
just because I, I've been alifelong athlete since, you

(26:39):
know, I started doing organizedsports, I guess, at age
whatever.
7, 8, 9, 10.
and I look back and like I did alot of things that a normal 20,
20 something 30 something woulddo, you know, over their head.
But, um, yeah, I, I commented onthat very one because, you know,
it's probably more the exceptionthat I turned back and let

(27:00):
someone else take the lead.
And that's a figurative as wellas literal thing is that let
someone else take the lead thatI'm impressed with my younger
self that I did that.

Kush (27:10):
Super.
This, maybe last question onthis topic, Hans.
Any, any two or three bestpractices to stay safe yet
efficient on, on like big wallsor even a short multi pitch or
single pitch climb?
I know, you know, we need to tiea good figure eight.
So inspect your partner, tie agood knot.

(27:30):
Any other things you, you havelearned that you You may want to
share with, with listeners.

Hans (27:36):
Yes.
Um, this is, I think superimportant is no matter how
experienced you are.
Um, here's a classicintroduction for the someone
I've climbed with the firsttime.
I'm like, Hey, I know I'm thiscelebrity climber.
You've seen me on the cover ofclimbing magazines and in videos
and all that.
But like I fall sometimes andyou can look at my crotch.

(27:59):
And check the knot check thebelay thing and all that and I
won't be insulted, um, cause I'mgoing to check yours and I don't
want you to be insulted.
I will check yours.
I don't want you to be insultedwhen I look at your crotch and
I've just added a little bit ofhumor there because, Oh, why are
you staring at my crotch?
Um, and that humor, is gluethat, that glues the idea, the

(28:19):
concept in your head, like checkpeople's crotch.
A lot goes on there.
The belt is doubled back, thebelay device is correctly loaded
on the rope and on your belayloop, and your knot's tied.
Um, so, there is a lot going onright there, and being humble is
another great word.
I'm humble enough to let youstare at my crotch and to see if
I am being safe.

(28:40):
I'll never be insulted by youchecking me for safety.
I, you know, I may slip up, butI invite people when they arrive
at a, say a multi pitch anchor.
Hey, look here, this is the wayI set it up.
Is this feel okay for you Youknow,

Kush (28:54):
Thanks.
Absolutely.
Yes.
One is never too famous or oneshould never feel too
intimidated either in thecompany of somebody who's famous
to ensure that, they are doingthe right thing because we have
had famous climbers in our midstwho have made, you know, simple

(29:14):
mistakes that either have beenfatal or could have been fatal.
A hundred percent agree withwhat you just said.
One other thing I was,pondering, Hans, about speed
climbing on the nose.
We have had so many records thathave been set and broken over
the last, let's say, three, uh,three odd decades of, doing

(29:38):
speed climbing.
I haven't seen Many, or maybeany women, and I could be wrong
because I haven't made itthrough to the end of your book
yet.
Have there been any women?
And if there have or haven'tbeen,what do o you think is
stopping women from embracing,let's say, speed climbing?

(29:59):
Given that the first person tofree the nose was Lynn Hill, a
woman.
And there are many women I thinkwho go and climb nose in a day
and do, you know, slower, butstill commendable ascents on El
Cap.
So, curious, uh, where are womenwith speed climbing on the nose?

Hans (30:18):
So, I mean, we all know that, you know, Lynn Hill beat,
whatever, men, to free climbingthe nose.
So it's, the physicalness of itis not the challenge.
And by the way, the, the seasonprior to Lynn.
Freeing the nose.
She climbed the nose with me andme and her set the speed record
for female male ascent It'sokay.

(30:40):
I think whatever I'm okay withsaying female male ascent and
double female ascent andtransgender ascent, whatever.
Keep all these records It'sgreat to give people recognition
I think the female record issomewhere around five hours.
So there is a lot of womenclimbing fast up there.
and the male female record nowis four and a half hours, um,

(31:04):
set some 10 years ago, I think,or more.
what else do I want to say?
I've recently, this last season,I climbed the nose six times and
I got passed and I climbedalongside of a number of women
that are on the search andrescue crew at Yosar, Kate and
Michelle, and, And they're, theyjust go out for like their day
off and climb the nose in youknow, 11, 12, 13 hours, like

(31:24):
bada boom, no problem.
and they're not trying to get aspeed record.
That's just casual for them.
So I'm sure if they put theirskills to it, Um, it would have
a result, you know, more thanjust, you know, naming them as
females or whatever you won'tsee anyone get the speed record
on the, on any El Cap rootthat's under the age of 20, even

(31:46):
though gymnastically.
Kids 18, 19, 20 are winningworld cups.
They won't win the speed recordon El Cap because they don't
have a driver's license, right?
Until they're 16 or 18 and womenhave had a more difficult time
living in the outdoors, um, inremote areas.

(32:07):
Uh, historically, and that's,you know, changing, you see just
as many women doing van life asmen almost now, and at crags,
and so they're getting out thereand being more and more
comfortable.
And that's what it takes is timein Yosemite and getting good at
those skills.
And they have that ability moreso now than they did before, you
know, Lynn was an anomaly.

(32:27):
She could move around in theclimbing world with, uh, More
exceptionally than most men.
and I mean move not only on therock, but amongst the
communities and the camping andthe climbing world so that she
could make the connections.
It takes a huge support crew to,climb the nose free and she has
the personality that couldmanifest that.
So, That's being more and morethe case now.

(32:50):
I, yeah, I, watch later thisseason.
I am hoping to do some thingswith women on El Cap.
Um, um, yeah.

Kush (32:59):
Amazing.
Yes.

Hans (33:00):
I, I shrug my shoulder and like I'm cowering a little bit
because I am a white privilegedmale and I, I, I wanna everyone
can have access to climbing.
But I just paused because I'm awhite privileged male and I, and
why does it have to be, youknow, I'm Why does it have to be
him that's teaching us?
And I'm like, well, I, I'moffering, you know, so

Kush (33:19):
White, privileged and blonde to boot.

Hans (33:22):
yeah.

Kush (33:24):
Sorry.
Couldn't resist that.
Absolutely.
Thank you for, thank you forthat answer.
Really appreciate it.
And.
You have done so much to openthe doors to climbers and just
people of all abilities andlevels to access the sport of
climbing that we love so much.

(33:45):
You have taken the time out, theresources out to do that.
And, uh, yes, awaiting What's tounravel this year with, uh, what
you're just talking about.
Excited to see,

Hans (33:59):
I'm turning the big six zero for your ageless athlete
podcast, people six zero and twoand a half months here.
I'll see if my body can hold upto do some.
fun things.

Kush (34:08):
you are ageless.
Hans happy early birthday toyou.
talking of, doing differentthings over the years, you
started a family while you werestill peaking, let's say as a
climber, as an athlete, how didthat change you?
and did you think you made anysacrifices with your climbing to

(34:35):
be a family person?

Hans (34:38):
Yeah, um, well, sacrifice.
Yeah, I don't want to get intodictionary too deep, but
sacrifice is an interestingword.
I like trade better.
you trade one thing for anotherbecause trade is like, you know,
it's the beaver quilt isn'tworth the loaf of bread.
Then you go, okay, I want threeloaves of bread.
And now it's even, it's not asacrifice.
It's an even trade, you know,um, spending time with babies

(34:59):
and toddlers and little kids andteenagers is crazy rewarding.
it's harder than climbing thework, get in to get that.
reward, but, it's a differentreward than going out And, you
know, running up a 514 at asport clag or, climbing Mount
Everest or climbing a long multipitch route in Red Rocks.
Um, it's different.

(35:20):
Uh, it's not a sacrifice.
It's just different.
But I will say that the thingsor the climbing that I think.
95 percent of what people knowme for those things, those feats
of climbing that I've done.
I did after I was a parent.
I believe that the reason iswhen you are obsessed and love

(35:43):
something as much as climbingand you have all these other
obligations like raising kids.
Um, when you go climb, you planmuch more and you go like, okay,
I've got a hall pass from thefamily on, you know, Sunday.
So let's see, I'll plan it andI'll get the right partner
together and we'll go up, youknow, Saturday night and we will

(36:04):
launch.
And I can't tell you how many ofmy friends, you know, Peter
Coward, Greg Murphy, Jim Hersonthat are all working 50 hours a
week in a white collar job inthe Bay Area That's four hours
from El Cap and kids and wewould they would you know, we'd
team up and like, okay We'releaving Friday at 6 p.
m.
We get into Yosemite at you knowMidnight sleep for six hours and

(36:27):
then climb all day SaturdayDrink coffee and drive home
Saturday night, mow the lawn,play with the kids Sunday, and
then you'd have blood readbloodshot eyes Monday morning at
work, you know, you didsomething really big and
incredible because You plannedall week.
You thought about it.
You imagined it You visualizedit and you know, maybe you got
into the climbing gym Tuesdayand Wednesday night, you know

(36:47):
during the week To keep yourselffit but and limber, but I think
that is I've done all my biggestmost notable things people know
me for Since I became a parentbecause I focused the time I was
climbing to do the big thingsthat I wanted to.
I think if I had just been aknucklehead bachelor roaming
around in my van, I would havebeen, Oh yeah, I'm climbing

(37:10):
today.
I'm climbing tomorrow.
I'm in the next day.
I climbed last week.
know.
I don't know how much planning Imight've done pull off bigger
things.

Kush (37:20):
Yeah.
Thank you for that.
Uh, love the answer.
And actually just to flip thequestion, do you think that
having a career, having afamily, having that all rounded
aspect of your life has actuallyhelped you perhaps?
Succeed in a greater capacitywith your climbing goals.

Hans (37:44):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I I, questioned like,Hey, I don't want to Be a guide
or I don't know run a climbinggym because that would mean I'm
Mixing my climbing with mysustenance meaning or my work
people use the word work Yourwork is different than what you
are or your work is differentthan your play climbing I love

(38:06):
so much.
I want I didn't want it to beReliant on it for my income.
So, and I've worn a lot of hats,um, accountant, project manager,
health club, climbing gymmanager.
Finally, I did run a climbinggym from 2010 I was mature
enough at that point that I,Really, really enjoyed the

(38:30):
business part of, you know,cause running the climbing gym
is more managing people than itis, you know, guiding people at
climbing.
So

Kush (38:38):
You have certainly reinvented yourself as a
professional.
you have done a few differentthings, maybe starting in a
white collar profession to doingother things.
Many professional climbers that.
we know, like you said, youknow, they are living out of
vans and they're still doingextraordinary things.

(39:00):
How have you found that.
balance or what's allowed you tokeep shifting into new thing?
Is it, has it been just drive tokeep learning new things?
Is it been something else that'sallowed you to manage your
climbing and your family,better?
What's, what's been sort of thatcatalyst to Hans.

(39:23):
doing different things with, uh,your career.
And actually I should, I shouldask you last question there to
add one on is what are you doingnow when you're not climbing?

Hans (39:37):
not much.
Um, actually I became agrandfather, four months ago.
So, um, we've gone up and, youknow, we're being supportive of,
my daughter, Katie.
she's got a little baby Arwinand, um, moved up to Arcata.
So that's, um, we're theregeographically to be supportive
grandparents is one thing.
of course.

(39:57):
mom and pop want most of thebaby time.
So we get to do other stuff.
okay.
One of the things is the mindsetof a beginner, right?
Like, if you're a beginner,you're going to make mistakes
cause you're trying somethingnew.
Right.
you know, this is veryphilosophical, you know,
professional speaker stuff, butlike the people who are the most
successful in the world, otherpeople who have made the most

(40:18):
failures, right.
They're, they're not afraid tofail.
Right.
And like, I just went surfingfor my first time at age 59 last
month.
We went down to Nicaragua and Ifailed to get up on the
surfboard many times, but I didget up on it by the end of the
week.
And yeah, I did.
All right.
Cause just various skateboardingand snowboarding skills over the
past long lifetime I've had.

(40:39):
but yeah, I'm a five, a five,two surfer.
Um, now after one week inNicaragua, maybe five, one, I
don't know.
some surfers would say I'm noteven fifth class, but yeah,

Kush (40:50):
I noticed, uh, your trip to Nicaragua, Hans.
And, I think you had titledyour, uh, post with something
like, you know, trying somethingnew or something on those lines.
And it was so great to see thatyou were up for, jumping into a
new sport for you.
What is, uh, what is importantabout, uh, trying new things?

(41:12):
Why is it important for you tobe learning surfing, which, you
know, is kind of intimidatingfor many people, just like
climbing is, but, you know, Alsofor somebody who is a new
grandfather.

Hans (41:28):
um, well, let me help everybody remember this with a
acronym TNT, which is dynamite,right?
Try new things.
You've said it three times orfour times already, but TNT
dynamite.
It's a real dynamite.
It's good for your, for yourlife.
Try new things.
Um, and I'm.
I'm going to, I'm going to plughere DHT, which is do hard

(41:49):
things.
Um, DHT challenge is the thing Icame up with in 2010, which
just, we made a list of thingsto do for the year.
And at first it was like, Hey,let's do something hard.
Like let's do five thirteens orlet's do V nine or let's do a
marathon or let's challengepeople to go to five different
gyms.

(42:09):
Um, and then.
Someone said, well, could we dosomething like serve three hours
at a soup kitchen or a volunteerat, you know, hospice or
something?
I'm like, uh, that'd be hard.
And they're like, yeah, it's dohard things, right?
I'm like, okay, so he'd addthings like that and we'd add
things like Write a handwrittennote and mail it to somebody
because people don't do thatanymore call three friends you

(42:30):
haven't talked to in threemonths and just say hello.
I appreciate you in my life, youknow That actually may not sound
hard to some people, but toothers, it's like, Oh, okay.
You know, and we made a list ofthings for people to do at the
gym and people would come up tome like, that's so cool.
I called a friend that I hadn'ttalked to.
And I'm so glad you, you know,suggested that to me.
And I'm like, well, I didn'tsuggest it to you.
The community made up this list.

(42:51):
It wasn't just me because I cancome up things like I think are
hard for me, 513 or whatever,and people will be like, well,
sounds like.
Serving three hours in a soupkitchen is harder for you Hans.
I'm like, yeah, you're right.
All right, that would be hardfor me But I think yeah willing
to go and look like a beginnerand I not only looked but was a

(43:13):
beginner at surfing is Mindsetthat's good to have and I get
I'm thinking of the classic sortof, you know 27 year old person
out in their van, trying to getthat next grade, the 13 C or 14
B or whatever they're tryingfor.
And, and that's their focus,just that, and that's what
they're good at.

(43:33):
it is wonderful to mastersomething or become expert at
and spend 10, 000 hours at it.
At the same time, it'srefreshing to go and try, you
know, bow and arrow archery orsomething.
And you're can't even hit thehaystack.
and it's great to see.
Rapid, recruitment of skills inanother thing.

(43:53):
And I often find that thatrounding out of your skills only
is going to help your climbing.
And I do go around and teachclinics, and this is a very
important is, uh, the Karate Kidmovies, they call it.
Kung fu in the later versions ofthe karate kid movies is like
everything is kung fu, right?
Everything is karate hangingyour jacket on the hook is kung

(44:15):
fu.
Well, I say everything isclimbing, you know, i'm washing
I'm washing the dishes I spreadand do the splits on the ground
because i'm so tall Otherwisei'm arching my back over to get
my hands in the sink to cleanthe dishes So i'm spreading my
feet and doing the splits andtrying to stay flexible and
stuff and yeah Washing thedishes is climbing, you know,
whatever.
So, trying new things, keeps youlearning, I guess.

(44:37):
You can always bring it back toclimbing.

Kush (44:39):
I love that, Hans.
I like that so much.
Uh, try new things, TNT and DHT,do

Hans (44:48):
DH, yeah, DHTchallenge.
com.
Go there.
It's free.
Um, it's a fun community tryinga bunch of wacky stuff from,

Kush (44:56):
That is a great inspirational nugget there.

Hans (45:00):
here we go.
I'm holding the sticker up ofthe little, our little, goat.
Our goat is our mascot.

Kush (45:06):
that's a, it's a great sticker.
And, for people who are notwatching this, uh, Hans has a
great, Shirt as Well, Hans youcan really, can you wear A Mr.
El Cap shirt if you haven'tclimbed El Cap?
Is that, Is that like notallowed?

Hans (45:20):
Well, gosh, it's killing me.
I I'm trying, I hope I rememberthis kid's name.
A young man was wearing thisshirt and El Cap and he, he
walked up to me and I pointed athim like, I kind of gave him an
odd look because I'm kind offunny and he's like, I know I
shouldn't be wearing this shirt,you should.
I'm like, no, no, I mean, haveyou climbed El Cap?
And he's like, oh, nothing likeyou.
And I'm like, what do you mean?
You know, whoever smiles themost is the best climber.

(45:42):
Anyway, he, he.
Came back a week later when wewere there for actually a
memorial on El Cap Meadow and hehappened to know I was there and
he went home laundered thisshirt and then gave it to

Kush (45:50):
Oh, uh, that's so cool.

Hans (45:53):
Yeah, I've never seen this shirt anywhere.
But, um, I guess they got it inthe gift shop.

Kush (45:58):
it.
it's it's great talking of ElCap And, talking of speed
climbing, you were doing speedclimbing on plastic.
you were winning competitions,Hans.
as a young athlete and you wereclimbing on El Cap and setting
records on El Cap on theweekends and I was just thinking

(46:18):
that is such a extraordinarycombination.
if you think of speed climberstoday, I think they barely climb
outside perhaps and theycertainly don't climb big walls.
What allowed you to transferskills from L CAP over to speed

(46:39):
climbing

Hans (46:40):
Yeah, over the weekend.

Kush (46:41):
versa?
Yeah, it's just such a, curiousto hear your reflection on that.

Hans (46:45):
I'm in the right place at the right time is one thing.
there was a time in the 1800swhere the same person could win
the hundred meter dash and themarathon because the sport was
young.
That's basically my luck of thedraw of being early on in the
sport.
Diane Russell.
She's a woman climber who wascompetitive at the same time as

(47:07):
me.
She was the only other person towin speed climbing and
difficulty at the same nationalevent.
and again, that goes back to,you know, whatever.
somebody probably could win the100, the 200, the 400 and the
mile all at the same track meetbecause the sport was so young.
um, there was a young ladyactually in the last five years

(47:27):
that won speed climbing anddifficulty climbing and whoever
you were, young lady, I think Igave you kudos online.
It's amazing that much bigger,crazy achievement now than back
then.
It was in the right place at theright time.
And yes, I actually set thespeed record on the nose with
Steve Schneider one weekend andthe following weekend won the
nationals championships at cityrock jam in Berkeley.

(47:50):
Um, not the best training, youknow, for one for the other,
but, that was the state of thesport then we surmised that, the
final route that I sent at thatthing was probably 13 B cause
we, they left it up in the gymand we checked it and, you know,
nowadays.
13 B is like the qualifierbefore the semifinal or

(48:10):
something you have to send.
so it's, you know, justdifferent time.

Kush (48:14):
that makes sense the way you explain it.
Different time and, uh, thedegree of specialization
doesn't.
Didn't exist back then as itdoes today.
Curious.
Do you follow competitive sportsactually competitive climbing?
And, Uh, because you used tocompete in speed, wondering how

(48:35):
you think about how remarkablethat is.
The athletes are today who are,I think, climbing the speed wall
in a matter of, in a handful ofseconds.
Like, I wonder what goes throughyour mind when you see those
people and they're flying upthese, this wall And when you
were saying those records, Ithink you were amazing for that

(48:56):
time, but maybe a little bitslower.

Hans (48:58):
Uh, I know all the numbers, so it's easy for people
to quantitatively compare us.
the first, uh, the second Xgames, the wall was about 45
feet high or 40 feet high.
Um, and the world cup is 12meters, I believe, which would
be more than that.
Maybe 45 or 50 feet high.
Anyway, it's.
Five feet longer than the speedroute we did back then.

(49:20):
And they do it in five and ahalf or now five seconds flat.
We did it in 17 and 18 seconds,first and second place back
then.
So it took us three times aslong to get up a wall that, was
just, you know, five or 10 feetshorter than what they're doing
now.
and you know, they changed thegrade or the route every.
Every competition back then, soit might have been a 5.

(49:43):
9 one time and a 5.
12.
Vividly remember in France.
They like okay.
Let's let's make it so thedifficulty climbers have a
chance at speed Let's make it a12b route And I think I took
third there instead of first andsome young Spanish climber
sighting 513s at the time yeah,but it wasn't, particularly
fast.
You can imagine speed kind of,512 B wouldn't be five seconds.

(50:06):
It was more like, I don't know,50 seconds or

Kush (50:08):
You specialize in speed climbing and you specialize in
big walls, but you also havethis, you rigorous approach to
training hands from what I cansee and you have been so
quantified.
and plan with the approach tokeep keep improving upon your
climbing on the nose.
I'm curious as to how you didn'ttake that approach and your

(50:33):
natural personality to somethinglike sport climbing bouldering.
to be honest, I'm not completelysure where you are with other
kinds of climbing these days.
with your talent, if you had, Idon't know, if you ever focused
on the difficulty end of thesport, you would excel as well.
Is it, is it, the fact that youwere not as inspired by sport

(50:57):
climbing or is it paucity oftime?
Because for example, like someof the people that you have
roped up with over the years,people like Eugene Hirayama, for
instance, you know, he was alsoknown for excelling with
difficulty and, and single pitchclimbing.
what is it that has maybe keptyou from, uh, also pushing the

(51:20):
boundaries with, with sportclimbing?

Hans (51:23):
wow.
Yuji is a excellent person tocall out, to, um, talk about
here on this particular angle,because Yuji lives in Japan,
mostly now, and there is noYosemite there.
There's no, I think they have ahandful of multi pitch routes
there, but they might be two orthree pitches.
He's so proximity wise, he livesin his raising a family

(51:47):
operating businesses, near aplace that doesn't have multi
pitch long endurance climbing.
it has single pitch and Andbouldering problems.
And he excels at those becausethat's what his home area is.
And he loves climbing and he'sgot to have an outlet near where
he lives.
So I don't know.
I, I just saw a thread, which isanother app born from Instagram

(52:11):
for you.
Uh, older people like me.
And I saw, Yugi said, you know,people see that I'm bouldering
and sport climbing, but tradclimbing is something that's
always been historically greatfor me.
And I hope people do go out andexperience.
experience, trad climbing.
Cause there's really a lot to beenjoyed from it and this, that,
and the other.
And so I think his heart isthere, but, um, he just loves

(52:31):
the movement of climbing like Ido.
And, obviously he lovescompetition.
Um, he just crushed incompetitions all over the world
as well I was a competitorbefore climbing and track and
field and soccer and otherthings.
And so that was a timing thing.
Again, you ask, you know, howcome I haven't been known?
Well, I mean, I won two or threenational.

(52:52):
Comps.
I did it purely, purely out ofmy ability to train and be
competitive because you got toremember in 1990, 91, 92, up to
95 and beyond that those earlydays, a lot of the climbers, I
remember Jeff Lowe trying todecide who would go to the 1980,
89 Snowbird and nationals.

(53:14):
And he's like, well, send yourresume.
And, you know, like Jim Karn andthese people like, well, I sent
a 513B yet.
Smith rocks.
It was like this very, verysubjective resume you could send
in, you know, and I'm like, Oh,I climbed the nose once.
I won a local competition in LosAngeles where there was 12
people in the comp.

(53:34):
You know, so what does thatmean?
You know, maybe they're allfive, six climbers.
Yeah.
So it was a bit silly.
What I'm getting to is thatthere were climbers that were,
There was a dozen climbers at anational competition that were
better climbers than me, and Iwould place first, second or
third because I knew theclimbing competition was coming

(53:55):
up.
So I trained for plasticclimbing competition, which was
very hard to do in 1990 becausethere was only two gyms in the
country, and I happened to benear City Rock, right, wherever
there was one, by 91, there waslike, you know, 10 climbing
gyms, which is still not many,right?
So, Nobody knew, includingmyself, how to train exactly for
a climbing competition comingup, but I, it was so important

(54:17):
to me that I not only climbed sohard that I didn't look like I
was a good climber at the gym,but I knew, duh, you rest two or
even three days before a compand a lot of Climbers, you know,
picture cut off blue jean shortsand they go climbing because
they love nature and stuff.
They probably climbed Fridaybefore the comp on Saturday and

(54:40):
I would beat them because simplyI rested longer and I, I
attacked the plastic in a waythat was more, I was just more
experienced at plastic nowadaysthat's no such thing, you know.
Competitors at a climbingcompetition.
They're all crazy experienced atplastic, right?
we used to joke that you go toclimbing competition and you
see, you know, whatever, there'sonly 60, maybe a hundred, maybe

(55:02):
only 60 different holds in theworld or certainly in the U S.
So you knew every hold on theroute when you looked up it
before you got to, you knew thatthey, um, but now you don't know
holds.
There's so many, there's, tensof thousands of different
handholds, right?

Kush (55:17):
you know, you were training with an intensity and
you were somehow able to balanceyour career and family and
weekend warrioring at the nosewith this certain things hands
that you adopted with yourtraining, which had you excel
with climbing on the nosebecause you were not living in.

(55:40):
Yosemite Meadows, you know, as afull time climber, you were
training at the gym.
And I'm just curious, like how,what kind of training were you
doing back then?
And also, what kind of trainingare you doing today?
Because you still have El Capascents on the horizon.
One last thing I will throw inthere, you know, many years ago

(56:01):
I remember, uh, I think I metyou at, uh, one of the
Touchstone Climbing Comps orsomething and, uh, this could be
totally apocryphal, but I heardsomebody say that, oh Yeah.
Hans, you know, he will onlyallow himself to watch
television if he's also doingsit ups.
Thanks.
As watching television.
So is that, is that true?

Hans (56:24):
Not entirely.
No.
Um, I, I, I kick back sometimes.
That's funny.
We added a challenge to ourlist.
We have this list every yearthat comes out and changes every
year.
This year it was watch a 12series episode on next flicks or
whatever, Amazon, or, and, um,do whatever, 240 reps of an

(56:45):
exercise of your choice duringthe episodes.
Cause it's year 2024.
yeah, we had that challenge.
Um, but no, I don't, uh, doexercises all the time when I
watch movies, but it is a goodway to pass the time while
you're watching a movie.
And to that point, like how, howdo you train when you have all
these other things going,there's always somebody.

(57:07):
training harder than you.
That's truth.
And there's always someone in acrate, more crazy.
I think of triathletes, like,what a, what a crazy choice as a
parent.
I mean, you gotta train yourcycling, you gotta train your
swimming, you gotta train yourrunning, and the hours that you
gotta spend on a bike to be fiton a bike is just nuts.

(57:28):
I mean, you hear of a parent,Getting up at, you know, 3 a.
m.
And going swimming for two hoursor whatever.
And then they get on their bikefor twice.
Then they, they take the kids toschool and then they go to work
for eight hours.
And then the evening they comeback and do a run and you're
like, okay, that's way more thanI would train for climbing, you
know?
So why would they do that?

(57:49):
do they have the energy to dothat?
when I was training for the noserecord with UG, I was working.
30 hours, maybe 40 hours,sometimes a week at an architect
engineering firm.
And I would get up at four.
Luckily there was a gym inOakland, great Western power
company.
I would go in and I would trainfor three hours, five to eight.
And then I'd take a shower andI'd head to work.

(58:11):
And I'd found like, Oh, youknow, exercise is way better
than coffee for make waking youup and keeping you psyched.
and I'd get home and I'd havedinner with the wife and kids
and then.
Put them to bed and I'd probablygo to sleep fairly early, eight
30, nine o'clock.
And I wouldn't repeat becausethe next day I'd need a rest
after that.

(58:31):
But I, you know, I only trainedtwice a week for, doing the nose
record, but I do like three,four hours in the morning,
really, really hard.
And the reason I was, able tomotivate or inspire myself to do
that was I just saw the smile onEugene's face.
And I saw the, in my head, Ienvisioned, you know, the
excitement I would feel in thebutterflies at being at the base

(58:52):
of El Cap and looking up thereand, know, visualizing those 31
pitches.
anybody that has been obsessedwith something knows that you
will change, you The regularcourse of human activity to
pursue that obsession.
So,

Kush (59:09):
five to 8:00 AM in the morning before, uh, before going
to work and, uh, making sure to,uh, get your, uh, good night's
rest by going to bed at eight 30or nine.
And uh, I think the only way forme to be able to put in that
kind of focus is when I have agoal.

(59:30):
in front of me, otherwise it'shard to, to motivate.
I think you, indirectly pointedto the power of, uh, goal
setting.
Any specific things you weredoing in your training routine,
Hans, which allowed you tomaintain that kind of fitness.
We don't have to get intospecifics, but were you climbing

(59:52):
a lot of routes at the gym?
How did you balance, let's sayon the wall training with off
the wall training besides doingthose countless sit ups?

Hans (01:00:01):
right.
well, one thing is great is thatlike Kung Fu karate climbing, it
uses every part of your body.
So no matter what part of yourbody is tired, you can train
something else.
And you know, sit ups, Actually,the front of your body core
strength is not as important asthe rear part of your body core

(01:00:24):
strength.
And so you want to workeverything core strength sides
and front and back.
Um, why am I saying that?
And we didn't want to get intodetails everything is climbing.
Everything is karate.
when I'm doing sit ups in thegym for that three hours in the
morning, I visualize like I'mholding some position.
And if you're watching thevideo, I'm like holding my hand
up my toe down here, which is,myofascial train in your body,

(01:00:48):
you know, it's length and allcore strength.
And I'm envisioning the climbingpart of it.
to, that end, though, morespecific is that there was
cracks at, The touchstone gymsthat I went to and I would put
my stuff, my hands in cracks andclimb up and down repeatedly and
try to do the route the hardway.
Do my thumbs down, my thumbs up,my palms face left, my palms
face right.
So that I'm kind of making thecrack different.

(01:01:10):
Every time I go up using thefootholds around the crack, not
using the footholds around thecrack, all that sort of stuff.
and you know, I climbed justregular face climbs in the gym
as well, but just volume ofclimbing and.
The whole time I'm envisioning,perhaps it's a pitch or two on
the nose while I'm doing it.
It's your body visualizing whyyou're doing something is hugely

(01:01:31):
helpful.
I've seen interviews with peoplethat, you know, high end martial
artists that do movies withJackie Chan.
And they're like, Oh yeah, whenI'm doing the dishes, I'm on the
splits, one foot up on thecounter.
Well, you know, that sort ofthing.
Everything's karate.
You're just, so without gettingspecifics, I, when I teach
clinics, I say, Hey, if you'redoing a crunch, if you're doing

(01:01:53):
a.
a plank, whatever.
Think, feel, visualize what moveon whatever bouldering project
you're doing or climbing routeor goal you have and think like,
yeah, I, I need this corestrength or this fitness for
that.
I'm going to apply this later.
You know?

Kush (01:02:09):
For sure.
You were able to think ofspecific kinds of movement needs
and strength needs and find away to train for them.
Within the, uh, walls of aclimbing gym.
And sounds like, yeah, that paidoff, paid off well.
And I love that, uh, expressionagain.

(01:02:32):
Everything is karate.
just made me wonder, there isthis.
Sort of famous book climb in,uh, in Bishop at Pine Creek
called Everything is Karate.
I think F8 by Chris Sharma a fewyears ago, and now it's seen a
few more ascents.
Yeah, I, I was just wondering ifthere's a connection between
that expression.

Hans (01:02:51):
Oh, I didn't know he did that way to go.
Sharma.
Is it hard?

Kush (01:02:55):
14D, not, not hard, not so hard for him maybe, but yeah,
for the rest of us.

Hans (01:03:01):
yeah.

Kush (01:03:01):
yeah.
Yeah.
not, not, not easy for, uh, Foranybody really, with so much
climbing volume over thedecades, you have been so
consistent.
Have you had injuries?
Are there, any kind oflimitations that You have to
work through?
Curious as to how you havemaintained to stay in fine

(01:03:22):
fettle over the years.
How

Hans (01:03:24):
I've had um, overuse injuries, strained tendons.
I've had three knee operations,all of them orthoscopic.
uh, when we rotate our knees inthe Egyptian sort of drop knee
position from sport climbing andthen put pressure on it, it's,
you know, anatomically reallyterrible on your meniscus.
Your bones are aligned reallywell.

(01:03:45):
to rip your meniscus And I Iripped both of my meniscus.
Luckily for me, good genes orwhatever, they just went in and
cleaned out the rip and I justhave less cushion in my knees
than most people.
So I had those operations.
and then, uh, I broke my thumbone time in Patagonia taking a,
a fall that probably should havebroken my back, but I ended up

(01:04:07):
with a broken thumb.
interesting side note, theemergency visit in, uh, Porto
Natalis was 35.
They splinted my thumb and xrayed it.
After 35 years of climbing hadmy first large enough accident
that I needed to be rescued.
I broke my right heel and myleft tib fib falling about 17

(01:04:28):
feet on El Cap, hit a ledge.
That was 2018.
That was tough, wheelchair fortwo months, crutches for two
months, um, knee scooter for amonth, yeah, and fortunate for
me, everything came back, I wasrunning a year afterwards,

Kush (01:04:44):
yeah.
How about today?
Are there, uh, any injuries or.
Maybe overuse, stresses that youhave to work around as you train
and climb.

Hans (01:04:53):
right now I'm in Tahoe, as I'm talking to you, and, I just
got foot surgery for five daysago.
Five days ago.
elective, it's called Morton'sneuroma.
It's very common in women whowear, it's usually women who
wear high heel, very tight shoesbecause it squeezes your
forefoot together, much likeclimbing shoes.
So it's, it's probably we'll seea lot more climbers getting this

(01:05:16):
operation decades into wearingtight shoes.
It's just a pinch nerve betweenyour second and third toe.
And, for me, 99 percent of thetime, it doesn't bother me, but
just the right twisting, ofcourse, in a crack or, oddly on
a foothold makes it feel like aknife is being driven into your
foot.
But as soon as you take yourfoot off of that position, for
me anyway, the pain goes awayrather quickly.

(01:05:38):
Um, so I don't have to get theoperation, but I did.
And, now I'll have a littleteeny one inch numb spot between
those two toes, uh, maybeforever, but maybe it'll come
back.
But, that's kind of the mostrecent thing.
Um, but I've been, um, Bikingand hiking and climbing all
through that and surfing, um,paddle boarding.

Kush (01:05:58):
You mentioned it's elective, what I'm, uh, gauging
is that without the surgery, youwould still have been able to do
most things, but maybe jammingyour foot in contorted
positions.
Was not something you were ableto do.

Hans (01:06:12):
not, um, not with an, Uh, with boldness that I will be
hopefully if the surgery works.
mean, we all feel discomfort inour climbing shoes after a while
wearing them, if we're wearingtight shoes and we feel
discomfort stuffing in thecrack.
But, you just like hand jammingyou.
You get used to it, you learnhow to place your hand in there
and squeeze on it so that thepain isn't detrimental to

(01:06:35):
breaking your bones or breakingthe skin.
And with feet, it's the sameway.
I mean, yeah, my feet hurtstuffing them in the crack, even
when they were at theirhealthiest, but it was something
that you can mitigate by justrotating your foot and taking it
out after a while.
But with this Morton's neuroma,it was so painful that like, it
just, you're in, Enough painthat you would, might jump out

(01:06:57):
of the crack and being on lead.
That wouldn't be a good idea.
You know, it just, it's sodistracting.
It's, it's not worth theclimbing pain.

Kush (01:07:06):
the way You described it, uh, you know, Made me certainly
want to make sure that if I haveever have those issues come up,
I tackle them early.
Any kind of prehab drills, Hans,that you do today

Hans (01:07:20):
I'll say the number one thing that kept me healthy when
I was sport climbing at my best.
Was, contrast bath for my hands.
Cause your hands are the thing,forearms and hands and elbows
are the most likely thing to getan overuse injury from
bouldering and sport climbing, Ithink.

(01:07:41):
and so I would, if I was on theroad, I'd find a cold stream to
soak my hands in at the end ofthe day, and then let them thaw
and then put them back in again.
Um, Let them thaw, put them backin again.
plug for Physivantage.
Collagen has been shown andproven that it takes collagen
right to your mucuspolysaccharides area is what the
building blocks of tendons are.

(01:08:02):
and it takes it there to yourfingers.
it's like all your body parts,your tendons and your muscles,
you stress them and then theygrow stronger for you.
Humans are amazing.
And it, by the way, it workswhen you're 60, uh, well, I'm
not 60 yet, but it works whenyou're 20 and it works when
you're 30 and 40.
Maybe not at the same level, butyou're stressing your tendons,
your muscles, and then your bodysays, Oh, I got to make those

(01:08:25):
stronger to be ready for thefuture.
So one way is fueling yourselfwith good food and supplements.
The other is, your body respondsto hot cold onn parts of your
body.
I've heard recent things aboutlike, don't put ice on a swollen
ankle or this, that, cause yourbody's swelling up because

(01:08:46):
that's what it's supposed to do.
I don't want to say I know whichis better cause I don't, but I
do know when my hands are notinjured, but I'm just stuck in a
cold bath and then in a warmwater and then cold bath, they
are way more flexible and justfeel more alive.
And, um, And you don't have thatclaw hand when you go to sleep
at night.
that can only be good to flushit.

(01:09:07):
Basically you're flushing thearea, right?
Hot, cold, hot, cold.
You're flushing fluids throughyour hands.
There's a lot of smallcapillaries and small blood
vessels and to help the bodycarry stuff through the lymph
node systems is just good.
And hot and cold does that.
Those compression sleeves dothat as well.
So if you can afford a massage,then get one.

Kush (01:09:28):
what I gather is if you're watching Netflix and you're not
doing sit ups instead, youshould be doing those contrast
baths by dipping your fingers inalternatively in a hot versus
cold, environments.
It's interesting that you dothat.
and cryotherapy, you know, hastaken off in the last decade, I

(01:09:52):
think where sometimes peoplehave ice baths installed in
their houses.
Now I see that as becomingsomewhat, uh, popular in the
surfing world.
where a lot of like pro surfershave, uh, ice baths and maybe
access to saunas and they'regoing back and forth.

(01:10:12):
Given the all body demands, thatclimbing induces.
I yeah, I'm curious if climbersare also adopting a whole body
cryotherapy to recover from,intense climbing sessions,
because like what you said makesYou know, it's science, you
know, you, you stimulate yourbody in a different way when you

(01:10:35):
put it through those, uh, thoseextremes of hot and cold, it has
helped you and others alsorecover from, the use of their
fingers and their limbs andtheir, uh, arms maybe
cryotherapy is being adopted byclimbers more mainstream.
I don't know if you knew any,

Hans (01:10:53):
I think all athletes, all athletes are investing time and,
and it looks like it's, it's awin for any athlete is cold
therapy.
I mean, this, the Hoff methodof, dealing with cold is
certainly popular, makes itsound less than what it is, but
I mean, it's, it's good scienceand a good human mind.

(01:11:15):
Some of it's mind over matter,but, Definitely, they're even
showing like you're going tolose more weight by dropping
yourself in a cold plunge everyday than if you do, you know,
get your heart rate over 135 foran hour and sweat, you'll be
better off.
Your calories will burn offbecause you're trying to you
know, adapt from that coldsensation.

(01:11:36):
And I'm hearing all thesewonderful things about cold
therapy Now you're going tohave, um, Eric Hirscht on.
After me, or I don't know ifyou'll broadcast for him, but
he's, he's like, Mr.
Science about all this stuff.
And, I installed a red infraredsauna at my house after visiting
his place.
Um, infrared saunas are reallygood for you and at least the

(01:11:57):
science shows and cold watertherapy is really good for you
too.
throw it all at it man.

Kush (01:12:04):
Absolutely.
and and Hans, uh, if you everdecide to take your newfound
surfing skills and come surfwith me in San francisco and
around.
And if you.
decide to not wear a wetsuit, Iwill understand where that is
coming from.

Hans (01:12:20):
Yeah, 81 degrees water down in Nicaragua.
I like that.
That was nice.

Kush (01:12:27):
I spent a month, a month and a half in Nicaragua, like
six years ago on a surf trip.
Yeah, the surface, it'sobviously warm, but it's also
really, really good.
yeah, great that.
you were able to fit That in.
you know, you are about around60 from the rest of the world's
perspective, you are stillaccomplishing exemplary things.
You just mentioned that you havetrips to climb the nose planned

(01:12:51):
out for this year.
So you are certainly notslacking, but from your own
perspective, Hans Are you aginggracefully?

Hans (01:13:01):
Well, that's a matter of opinion, I guess.

Kush (01:13:03):
from your opinion,

Hans (01:13:05):
you know, we all have seasons the answer is, I, I
don't know, but I, of, I, mybiggest, or I think everyone's
most important, that's the rightword, most important critic
should be yourself.
if you don't trust your ownjudgment of yourself, then, I
don't know, it seems like a poppsychology thing.
You need to do some work onyourself.
I just think that like, whywould you let anyone else

(01:13:26):
decide?
whether you're doing a good jobaging gracefully, um, you should
decide.
and I'm pretty, happy with howI'm doing it.
I'm pretty good with it.
I raised some kids.
Um, I've been, I know thatparenting's lucky.
I've been super lucky that mykids are wonderful.
I had a decently long marriageof 17 years to get those kids

(01:13:48):
out of the, so I've been,partially effective at the
classical Western monogamousmarriage.
I don't know.
Some people would say it's afailure.
I'd say it's a, you know, asuccess of 17 years of good
family stuff.
and you know, I'm trying othersports.
I'm biking a little bit morethan I used to, and I'm paddle
board sporting more than I usedto, and tried new surfing.

(01:14:12):
I don't know what grace is, butI think TNT embracing new things
or trying new things is good.

Kush (01:14:17):
Congrats on, uh,accomplishments so far.
And, uh, for those yet to come,any significant goals you have
for the next five to 10 years,either with climbing or outside,

Hans (01:14:29):
the thing I mentioned about, I didn't really say it
this way because it's tricky isthat, you know, taking people up
the nose, you're going to bepart of a time in their life
that they'll never forget.
So you're, you become quoteunquote, immortal or memorable
in their life.
I'm going to, I'd like to movemore to.
Taking people climbing in placeslike Greece and Kalimnos.

(01:14:50):
I'm actually teaming up withHeidi Wurtz, who's in her 50s,
and she's been guiding her wholelife.
A wonderful spirit.
She is, living the guideclimbing life, and, um, she
takes people to Cuba and PuertoRico and Mexico and Colorado and
Kalimnos, Greece, and all overthe place, and does yoga
climbing retreats, and so she'skind enough to partner with me

(01:15:12):
to do some of that, so.
I think I enjoy, you stay youngby taking people that it's new
to them.
It doesn't have to be youngerpeople I'm taking climbing, it
has to be people, it should bepeople that I'm introducing to
something new or justintroducing to a new crag, a new
place to climb.
I've been fortunate.

(01:15:33):
I've gotten to climb around theworld and it's introduced me to
some of the incredible things tosee around the world.
I again appreciate that I'm in aprivileged place that I get to
travel, but I'm going to takeadvantage of it and show other
people it.
gives me great joy and I thinkit inspires other people and
motivates them to explore theworld.
plug, plug there.
Um, look me up for guidingtrips, Smile Mountain Guides.

(01:15:56):
I'm teaching a multi pitchclimbing class in May this year.
I don't know if the podcast comeup by then, but

Kush (01:16:02):
it is such a honor to be able to pass on one's love for
climbing.
And I'm.
not just for your sake, but foreverybody else's sake, who is
going to be lucky enough to beable to climb with you and learn
with you and from you.

(01:16:22):
And it just also makes me marvelat the sport of hours where
somebody like you, who's, youknow, so accomplished in the
world of climbing can personallyimpart your knowledge to some.
new climber.
This is not true in othermainstream sports.
most of us cannot aspire to goand learn how to swing a golf

(01:16:46):
club with Tiger Woods or Or playball with Michael Jordan, so

Hans (01:16:51):
wow, we are on the same track.
I use that example all the time,whatever controversies there are
about Tiger Woods, set thoseaside.
It's like, you're not going togo golfing at your local club
and then run into him at the teeoff and he's going to give you
some tips, you know, so.
John McEnroe at the tennis club,you know, yeah, it's not going
to happen, but you could, youmight well run into Lynn Hill at

(01:17:13):
the crag, and she might, giveyou a tip on how to tie your
chalk bag better.

Kush (01:17:18):
Extraordinary how special our sport is Hans, if you were
to go back in time, maybe 20 or30 years ago, what would you
tell the young Hans on somethingthat the young Hans should do
either differently or doubledown on what he was doing?

Hans (01:17:41):
You know, as soon as I am about to open my mouth to say, I
wish I had spent more time onthis.
I'm like, but you know what Iwas doing, it was just as hell
of fun.
And, yeah.
brought my life to a differentpath.
I mean, one thing I think aboutis like, Hey, you know, I
climbed the nose with Lynn theseason before she freed it.

(01:18:01):
Why didn't I just help her outand, you know, give it a try
myself back then.
I was nowhere near the freeclimbers here, but like maybe I
could have gotten the secondascent seasons later and been
the first male to free climbing.
But I just, at that time, youknow, I just didn't have the
commitment for that sort ofclimbing.
I had, That, at least thatplayed out in my sport climbing.
I'd go around to sport climbingareas and anything I could on

(01:18:24):
site that's what I'd get on andlike, eh, you know, try it on
site at 13A, okay, but I'm notgoing to try 13B, C, Ds, because
those take me two or three triestoo distracted.
I want to go do more stuffrather than the same thing.
so, I don't, you know, Don'thave regrets and things that I
tell my previous self that, Hey,spend more effort here or there.

(01:18:46):
you know, uh, I got super lucky.
I invested in touchstoneclimbing and that was something
I didn't need to tell myself.
And, you know, it's like investin Apple stock, you know, I
don't know.
Um, it's been absolute joy.
To be involved with theTouchstone Climbing Gym
community the whole time andjust feel super lucky that I was
there when they were buildingMission Cliffs, you know.

(01:19:07):
and I've gotten to climb withthe founder, Mark Melvin many
times.
Just a joy to see true coreclimbers are at the base of
this, Credible company.
I mean, that's just one aspect.
there's just so many fortunatethings.
I can only, I just get sooverloaded with all the things
I'm fortunate and appreciativeof rather than what I missed out

(01:19:29):
on,

Kush (01:19:29):
I think the fact that you double down on your passion, I,
I, I think that it's hard tohave regrets of that.
I mean, it sounds like it paidoff well for you to invest in
the, climbing community.
If it's something one loves,then it doesn't feel like such
an effort.
And I'm finding that actuallywith this podcast while I'm
taking quote unquote, a breakfrom, uh, you know, a normal

(01:19:51):
full time career that pays thebills.
Yeah.
And I'm doing this, this showwhere honestly, even if this
doesn't go anywhere, just thefact that I'm having the The joy
and the honor of uh, speakingwith people such as yourself.
I'm like, I will never regretthis.
It's it's just fun because Ilove doing this reading your
book over the weekend, quoteunquote, which could be work

(01:20:14):
it's not work because I might bedoing that on the weekend
anyway.
So, yeah, no, I think, I thinkputting the effort into your,
uh, passion is, such a, such agood, uh, way to, uh, Set
oneself up for whatever else isthere to come.
And just closing out one of theother questions, any great habit

(01:20:37):
or behavior over the last fiveyears that has most impacted
your life and the try new thingsis certainly huge, but I sense
that you've been doing that formost of your life, you have been
doing different, excitingthings, but maybe something in
the last few years that's beenimpactful.

Hans (01:20:57):
you know, like meditation or, um, not meditate.
I don't, I have done somemeditation, but, I'm trying to
think of the, I always kind ofpoke fun at Mill Valley,
Berkeley.
wooty, poof, de I dunno, hippieeastern stuff.
yet lots of my friends areinvolved with it one level or
another.
But, um, journaling is, issomething really interesting and

(01:21:20):
it, I, I mean, I, I've writtendown in the back of my book on
the nose every single ascent Idid and who they were, and a
sense or two about what thisscent was.
I mean, this book marks my.
100 percent of it.
And there's chosen stories inthe book of those things, but
it's about, journaling ismeasuring, monitoring, managing,
manifesting, uh, motivating.

(01:21:42):
These M's are really easy toremember.
It allows you to see where youwere so you can improve on your
past self.
I don't know if people thinkthat's competitive or, or, um,
ambitious or whatever, but like,it's neat to measure, you know,
your hand strength one week andthen.
Check it the next week and Ididn't improve.
But if you measure a bunch ofthings something's going to

(01:22:03):
improve.
Like, uh, my flexibilityimproved.
Oh, my squats or my bench pressor my speed up this route.
Or, you know, we assignquantitative numbers to the
difficulty of routes.
And like, oh, I did three, five,sevens.
Or I did more, more to myjournaling as I like.
Oh, I did.
Five, five 11s rather than I dida 513.

(01:22:25):
it's not that it's moreimportant to me.
It's just, that's just more myswing.
Is that so the Ms, um, I thinkis really important is to
journal what you do.
Like people have a climbingjournal of the routes.
They did.
I heard Alex Honnold journalsevery climb he does.
And he writes things down like,Oh, I didn't eat enough.
it was.
Umid out or hot out and I didn'tbring enough clothing or

(01:22:47):
something like that notes tohimself and in my day and age We
used to have Day planners andwhich I see they're still for
sale nowadays But I would writein a day planner like I climbed
this route at this time And Iwould have business notes in
there too, but I did a lot ofPhysicality things and it's cool
to look back in those journals,those day planners from 1992 and

(01:23:10):
look like, Oh yeah, look atthis.
I climbed, holy shoot.
I climbed 12 routes in a day ata sport climbing area.
Like how did I have the fitnessto do that?
And, so journaling and measuringwhere you're at, so you can see
where you're going, if, if it'sjust that simple, a torpedo
doesn't hit a target, by notknowing where it is.
It's always correcting back to.

(01:23:30):
Hit the ship or something.
I don't know.

Kush (01:23:32):
It does seem like, many over achievers out there do seem
to have a consistent writing orjournaling practice.
I am surprised, actually, thatthis practice is somewhat new to
you, given that you have been aSo meticulous and quantified in

(01:23:56):
your approach, at least when itcame to, uh, tracking your
climbing, tracking your, uh,your, a sense of the nodes and
the way you planned for it andthe way you found ways to,
assess improvement.
I would have thought that youhave been journaling all through
the decades.

Hans (01:24:17):
Well, certainly there's a huge amount of journaling.
you keep as memory in your head.
You don't write it downanywhere.
so there's that.
And all of us have differentlevels of capacity to store
those things.
I think kind of a basic thingthat I learned as an athlete,
and by the way, I didn't startclimbing until I was 19, so I
had a lot of life before Istarted, and I didn't full time

(01:24:40):
climb until I was 24 or 5, andpeople say, oh, you were a pro
climber.
I'm like, no, I was a full timeclimber, but I wasn't a pro
climber.
one basic thing about training,I guess, and looking at a goal
is track and field.
You lift weights in October,November, December, then you go
out and you, um.
And you still kind of liftweights a little bit, which has

(01:25:02):
nothing to do with running orpole vaulting or throwing a
javelin, right?
Lifting weights in the weightroom.
And it has nothing to do withrock climbing, but you, uh, you
stress your body, you gainmuscle mass and then come
springtime, and I'm using thatas both figuratively and
literally, come springtime whenyou're going to go do whatever
it is you're going to, do, youstart doing the technique and
you now coordinate those musclesthat you stressed and grew in

(01:25:26):
the fall.
you coordinate them You thenapply them to the performance,
you know, and as track and fieldseason goes on in the spring,
you lift less and less.
And then the last month or twoof track and field, you lift no
weights at all.
You're only doing technique.
You're only coordinating thosemuscles.
You grew in the fall and thenyou repeat it in the year.

(01:25:47):
And, um, it's really simplistic,some climbers don't come from an
athletic background.
They don't think of it that way.
It was certainly not back in thenineties.

Kush (01:25:56):
thanks for that.
How can people find you on theinterwebs?
And you shared some informationabout, coaching and, sorry, not
coaching maybe, but climbingtrips, a guided climbing that
you've coming up.
If people are interested, howcan they get on those trips?
Would you mind sharing some ofthat information

Hans (01:26:17):
so this is where we, I dunno, shame.
I'm gonna shamelessly plugbecause I, I enjoy, I enjoy
meeting new people and climbingwith new people.
smile Mountain Guides is braveenough to let me guide for them
in Colorado in the front range.
Uh, that'll lead May 14th.
You can go to Smile Mountain.
God.
Oh, gosh, I think it's com, but,my most engaged platform is

(01:26:38):
Instagram.
People can, you know, you can'tprobably direct message Tiger
Woods, but you can directmessage me on Instagram.
I'm on Facebook occasionally,but mostly Instagram.
And I have a website,Hansfloring.
com, which has stuff and you canbuy my audio book there, speed
climbing and on the nose.
I'd say just if you're pluggedinto my social media, Instagram,

(01:26:58):
you'll You see the announcementsto go climbing with me in Greece
or Mexico or, wherever I mightbe going,

Kush (01:27:05):
for those people who are timely and And fortunate enough,
you might get to climb and,learn with, Hans himself.
So yeah, absolutely encouragepeople to go check your social
feeds, your website for moreinformation.
We will put those links in theshow notes of this podcast.

(01:27:25):
And lastly, Hans, I believethere is an exciting.
Giveaway and I will announce thespecifics of what people need to
do, but what are we giving awaywith?
The show

Hans (01:27:40):
well, we might give away more than we know right now
because I keep asking somepeople I have relationships
with, but right now we're goingto give away some Physivantage
product, Eric Hurst, The bestresearch person known to doing
cool physical things forclimbing.
He's got an awesome Physivantagebrand of supplements.
Um, and then we're going to giveaway, one of my books on the
nose.
I'll send to you.

(01:28:01):
then Koros, interesting enough,Koros watches.
it's a smart watch.
I use it to.
measure, monitor, manage, all ofmy stuff, and manifest goals.
Um, it measures everything,altitude gain, all that stuff,
and climbing pitches.
We're going to give away aKhoros heart rate monitor.
And we'll have the details whenwe post on Instagram, the
podcast being broadcast.

Kush (01:28:22):
perfect and I think there's also possibly a signed
copy of your book on the nose

Hans (01:28:29):
Yeah,

Kush (01:28:30):
So be up for grabs.

Hans (01:28:31):
yep.
Being that this is podcastlisteners, I think we've, you
know, given the choice of theaudio version of the book too.
Or maybe I'll give, throw thatin too, so they can listen to
it.
Because I was lucky enough torecord it.
And I should say a shout out,um, because you complimented
this writing.
It's beautiful.
Jamie Moy.
Um, I was so lucky to meet herbefore she became super uber

(01:28:52):
famous.
Um, she's won so many journalismrewards And she, uh, she made my
stories readable and fun.
So shout out to Jamie Moy forthat.

Kush (01:29:01):
The book is, I, the book is eminently readable.
I, I like reading and, it is apage turner even for somebody
who, who is already obsessedwith, climbing.
I also recommend people watchthis video that you have of you
taking Jamie along with oneother person.
up the nose.
It's a great video.

(01:29:22):
I'll make sure to add that linkin the show notes as well.
Hans, it's been a pleasurehaving you on the show.
Good luck with the healing

Hans (01:29:33):
Thanks.
Thanks.

Kush (01:29:34):
all the best, uh, for your upcoming birthday.
Uh, thank you for the, uh,inspiration over the years.

Hans (01:29:40):
You're so welcome.
And I know you're local to theBay area.
So, uh, when I come through,let's try to rope up together.

Kush (01:29:46):
That would be amazing, Hans.
It would be such, such an honor.
A lot of folks, that was the oneand only Hans Florine sharing
his incredible stories about ourcaptain and what it takes to be
a safe and successful climber.

(01:30:06):
hope you found his insights asinspiring as I did.
If you want to dive deeper, graba copy of Hans's fantastic book.
On The Nose.
Now get ready for awesomegiveaway.
Sorry.
Only us residents are eligiblefor this raffle.
We have got some.
Incredible prizes for you,including.

(01:30:27):
Uh, chorus, heart rate monitor.
$2 50 gift certificates, dofuzzy vantage products.
And of course a signed copy ofon the nose by hands flooring
himself.
Here's how to enter.
I create a post on Instagram.
Diking bought this bought gashandled.

(01:30:48):
and hands is happy.
Leave a review or rating.
For the ages.
At the podcast in your favoritepodcast app.
Send screenshots of both yourInstagram post.
And your review rating to myemail.
To kush@agelessathlete.com.
We will announce the winnersoon.

(01:31:09):
this raffle is only eligible forpeople in.
The U S now, if you get achance, head over to Yosemite
yourself and see all climb onthe breathtaking.
Uh, capita before you go.
For course, if you enjoyed thisepisode, I would really
appreciate if you couldsubscribe to the podcast.
And also leaving us a rating andreview.

(01:31:30):
Goes a long way.
And helping us get the storiesout to more folks.
Thanks for listening.
And until next time.
Stay adventurous.
Stay safe and stay ageless.

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#16 Hans Florine - El Capitan’s Speed King on Staying Alive, Gender Representation on Big Walls, and Power of Visualization

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#16 Hans Florine - El Capitan’s Speed King on Staying Alive, Gender Representation on Big Walls, and Power of Visualization