#18 Matt Eggleton - Ultra Endurance Mountain Biking Racing, the Power of Habit Stacking, Honoring Ones Gifts, and Safety First! - Ageless Athlete - Stories and Secrets of Adventure Sports Icons

Episode Transcript
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Kush (00:04):
Folks welcome back to the ageless athlete podcast.
This is a host Krish Condell.
Well, Broadcasting from SanFrancisco, California.
Bringing you stories eachdefining genre, defining
adventure athletes.
Doing extra ordinary things inthe outdoors.
It is gorgeous out.
I did my physio this morning.

(00:26):
Stretched.
And can't wait to get outside ina couple of hours.
Are you ready to be inspired?
Today we have an ageless Mountbiking, phenom.
Matt Eggleston.
At 59 years, young, Matt isdefined age stereotypes by
sending it harder than ever.

(00:47):
On the gnarliest, downhill andEnduro courses.
But here's the surprising part.
He did not even start mountainbiking until his forties.
From bracing, the pure stoke ofvery new phase two cultivating
mindset, the laughs and the faceof suppose H limitations.
Throughout our talk.

(01:07):
Matt do from his militarydiscipline to drop wisdom on the
mindset, training and habits forachieving mastery lead real
life.
We will tap into his deepdevelop, visit him on.
Everything.
From Mon biking, safety totraining.
At an elite level, despite thelate start to habit stacking for

(01:28):
continued self-improvement.
To savoring each moment in thewondrous outdoors.
And hate.
What's harder.
Uh, running marathon or a modernbike marathon.
Do unit.
Whether you are a diehardStrader, or just looking to get
more active maths, hard woninsights, like spark your inner

(01:49):
flame.
And motivate you to get afterit.
Lace up those boots and getstoked.
It's time for an inspiringdownload from the ageless.
Mountain biking, phenom, MattEgerton.
I really appreciate you tuningin France.
If you like the show.
Please subscribe so we can.
Continue to bring the goodnessright to your Favorite podcast.

(02:20):
Matt, great to have you on theshow.
To start off, can you pleasetell us where are you right now?
Where are you from?
And, uh, what did you have forbreakfast today?

Matt (02:31):
Hey, Kush.
all right, Matt Eggleton.
I live in Alexandria, Virginia,just outside D.
C.
in the D.
C.
metro area.
This morning I had the samething that I have almost every
single morning for probably thepast seven or eight years.
I have some form of oatmeal.
So today's oatmeal was a thirdcup of organic rolled oats with

(02:54):
half a banana and a handful ofblueberries and a little dab of
maple syrup and a cup of coffee.
With a scoop of collagen.

Kush (03:02):
got it, I have a very similar breakfast myself.
I'll sometimes, instead of themaple sort of thing, I'll, uh,
add some kind of nut butter

Matt (03:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
All of us need a good breakfastto fuel our day.
So let's jump right in.
Now you have tackled some prettybrutal endurance races.
What's the craziest thing youhave experienced out on the
course?

(03:31):
gosh, I think, you know, crazythings.
I might have to come back tothis if something later on, uh,
sparks, but I think that thecraziest thing is, you know,
I've been in several races whereI have mentally quit multiple
times in the race.
And then ended up finishing anddoing very well.

(03:54):
for example, in a hundred milemountain bike race, you might
have five or six aid stationsand I'll get, Not even to the
first aid station and I'll saytoday's just not my day I'm not
feeling it.
I'm not feeling motivated.
I don't know why I do this tomyself and I said, okay I'm just

(04:14):
gonna get to the first aidstation and you know and then
I'll ask for a ride back orsomething and then I get to the
first aid station and Take abreath.
Okay I'll go to the next one,and then I'll go to the next
one.
So there are, I can think ofprobably 10 races or more, but

(04:34):
this is probably half the timethis happens, where it's a
mental challenge, more so than aphysical challenge.
Um, and so I think that'sprobably a familiar scenario for
people who do ultra endurance,uh, racing.
Um, But it's it's what makes itespecially interesting and

(04:57):
especially rewarding when youcomplete it.

Kush (05:00):
I'm just learning about the, the, the world of ultra
endurance mountain biking.
I've, I've heard about it formany years and I'm, I'm
completely fascinated.
Would love to.
Learn a little bit about what isthe mountain bike race world all
about, what are perhaps thedifferent kinds of races out

(05:24):
there in terms of, uh,distances, categories, which
ones might be the most soughtafter, and then, yeah, also what
is a, a normal mountain bikerace versus let's say, uh,
Weather.
endurance race versus an ultraendurance race.

Matt (05:43):
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, so I would say there'sprobably three, Yeah.
Three primary forms of mountainbike racing.
Well, I should say three primaryforms of endurance mountain bike
racing.
Of course you have outside ofthat, you have, uh, you know,
like downhill racing, we call itgravity sports.

(06:04):
So it'd be like downhill racingor, um, uh, Enduro where you do
a downhill and then you shuttleto the next downhill and then
you do another, and it's, Timedlike those downhill sections are
timed in between the shuttles,uh, but in what I would say
traditional mountain bikeracing, you have what's called,

(06:26):
uh, cross country, uh, Olympicstyle cross country generally is
an hour, hour and a half long,uh, mountain bike race.
So you're, you're on red linethe whole time, just pinning it,
uh, full gas.
For an hour, hour and a half,something like that.
And that's, those are exciting.
I mean, in fact, that is anOlympic sport.

(06:48):
And so, um, one of the peoplethat I would consider a friend
and a mentor, uh, Tinker Juarezwas at the very first, um,
Olympics in Atlanta when, uh,the mountain biking was, was
introduced as a Olympic sportbesides, um, Olympic cross
country, then you would havewhat we call, um, marathons.

(07:11):
All right.
So.
Olympic XCO, Marathons XCM.
Those are generally 50 miles, ahundred K, something like that.
Um, each of these becomes.
Kind of a gateway drug to thenext.
Okay.
So people often enter, you know,these hour long events.

(07:31):
They can visualize themselvesdoing that, you know, mountain
bike marathon of 50 to 100 K is,you know, going to be a good bit
longer, maybe, Four, five, sixhours, depending on, you know,
the, uh, the amount ofelevation.
And so you might have somewherebetween 6, 000 feet of climbing

(07:54):
to as much as maybe 9, 000 feetof climbing in a hundred K race.
after that generally is, upperechelon would be the a hundred
mile racing.
And, uh, that's was really,really popular in the, um, like
say 2010 to about 2020 COVID,uh, that took all racing.

(08:16):
And in fact, all outdoor sports,I think really took a big hit
from COVID.
Um, but there's, it hasrecovered to some, uh, and
there's still a lot of hundredmile mountain bike races, uh,
every year, uh, primarily herein North America, And then
there, there are some like epicevents.
There are some stage races whereyou might be out like, uh, like

(08:38):
Tour de France is a stage race,right?
like that.
Yeah,

Kush (08:43):
Uh, explainer helps us, uh, helps me and others get a
little bit of, to speak intothis, uh, into this world of
mind biking, racing.
What is the type of racing,Matt, that you specialize in?
Are you more of an all rounder,but my sense is you go for like
the, the long, gnarly ones and,and maybe how did you find

(09:07):
yourself there?

Matt (09:09):
this is a progression that a lot of people experience but
how I got into it pretty muchthe same way most people get
into it.
my daughter, uh, bought a bike,uh, with her own money, saved up
her own money.
Bought herself a mountain bike,uh, thought it was cool, wanted
to do it, uh, rode around theneighborhood, some local trails,

(09:31):
and then encouraged me to joinher.
I had been a cycling commuteryears prior, so I was, you know,
I'd kind of stopped doing thatand taken up other pursuits, but
it was a great opportunity tospend time with her, so of
course I did.
I really fell in love with itvery quickly and like everyth

(09:53):
Like a lot of us adventuresports, people became obsessed
with it.
And while I was learning as muchas I can and be on every
internet forum group that Icould find.
And, you know, but then, uh, notlong after that, maybe three or
four years, she went off tocollege.
We found ourselves as emptynesters.
I had all this extra free freetime, right?
Because I'm not shuttling her toher activities.

(10:15):
And, uh, I just filled the gapwith, with cycling and then
training and signing up for myfirst event.
And I was living in Germanywhen, uh, in Stuttgart, Germany,
when I just finally decided I'mgoing to Being my first mountain
bike race, uh, did that.

(10:36):
So not only was I, you know,exploring a new sport, but I'm
exploring a new sport where thewhole registration and
everything is in a differentlanguage, but, you know,
navigated my way into that.
And, uh, And did my first twomountain bike marathons while I
lived there also.

(10:57):
And so that was, again, it waskind of a gateway into, um, when
I knew I'd be coming back to theStates and I, through YouTube
and whatever, had discoveredthat there is this whole
community back in the States forwhen I moved back, I want to get
involved in.
And that's exactly what I'vedone.

Kush (11:14):
Little did you know that when you introduced that, uh,
bicycle to your daughter, that,in this, uh, brilliant turn of
events.

Matt (11:24):
yeah,

Kush (11:24):
It will come back to you

Matt (11:26):
It's a big part of my life.
I mean, it really, and I, Imean, it's a big part of my
identity.
You know, I made a post aboutthat yesterday.
I signed up for one of our, youknow, very prominent races and
I, the post was it's becauseit's what I do.
This, this is what I do.
You know, I, I sign up forthings that are scary and hard.

(11:48):
I mean, I, I've done this racemany times before.
I know I can do it, but.
It's very, very difficult.
It's, uh, it takes a realcommitment to prepare for it,
especially if you want to dofairly well or do better than
you did last time.

Kush (12:05):
Great.
Many nuggets out of that, that Iwant to tap into later.
One thing immediately is, uh,it's just your journey as you
progress through the world ofmountain biking.
I mountain bike a little bitmyself.
Uh, I don't aspire to racecompetitively, at least.

(12:27):
What happened first?
Did you start mountain bikingrecreationally?
And at some point you realizedyou had the talent or is it that
you were competitive in othersports in your life?
And this was like some sort of,uh, uh, coming together of
worlds.
Uh, where does this begin?

(12:48):
Mm

Matt (12:50):
uh, because I would, I would be very quick to point
out.
I don't necessarily come with alot of talent.
Uh, I, I did not, uh, I wasn'tvery lucky in the, you know,
gene lottery.
you know, uh, any success I'vehad is, I think.
through, uh, you know,determination, um, maybe even
persistence.
yeah, I was competitive even asa kid, I was always competitive

(13:14):
playing street hockey out front.
I grew up in Western New York inBuffalo.
You know, so, um, basicallyfootball and hockey culture.
Um, uh, so played a lot of thosekind of sports, uh, growing up.
uh, again, it wasn't,Particularly good at any of
them, but they really alwaysinterested me.

(13:36):
And I think I was more of afrustrated athlete than anything
else.
competed in some other, uh,endeavors in, in between then in
cycling.
But, uh, I found that if Iworked hard, I guess, again,
this is, would have been thefirst couple of years.

(13:56):
I found that if I roderegularly.
And if I kind of put a littlebit of structure and rhythm and
routine into this, that I could,that I was quickly, um, quickly
becoming more capable than someof the people I was writing
with, you know, just again,through frequency of writing

(14:16):
three or four times a week.
and it's like anything youpractice, the more you do it,
the more you're going to getbetter at it.
Right.
I've found success, a little bitof, pride, a little ego boost,
right.
And, um, and started toformulate and integrate this
into my identity.
so that, right.

(14:37):
We, we pursue things that, wherewe feel we're, we've been
rewarded to some degree, right.
If you get to your first goldstar, I want another gold star.
I want another, you know, and soI, uh.
A little bit of success resultedin, you know, more interest,
which resulted in a little moresuccess and more interest.

Kush (14:56):
One of my favorite maxims is success breeds success.

Matt (15:01):
sure.

Kush (15:02):
And it's kind of like my favorite class in high school
was history.
And it was because I had thisgreat history teacher and I had
little, I think, interestinitially, but she was just so
encouraging and she keptcomplimenting me on, uh, how
well I was doing at class.
Somehow I just became reallyinterested in history and I
ended up like doing really wellwith the subject.
So for sure, it's, it's good tofeel one is getting some rewards

(15:25):
to keep pushing us to the nextmilestone.
How old were you, Matt, when youstarted mountain biking?

Matt (15:31):
So that's a fair, that's a good point, is I would
definitely a late adopter.
Right.
So I was in my forties, I guess.
yeah, I would've been, so this,it really took off for me in
like 2009 or 10.
I'd have been well into my 40s,maybe, you know, 44, 45, yeah, I
just grinding away since, andagain, no end in sight.

(15:54):
can't envision not participatingin this.
So.

Kush (15:59):
Matt, I can just see the fire in your eyes as you.
Said the last thing! And how oldare you now?

Matt (16:08):
So I'm 58.
I'll be 59 this season.
As cyclists, we often refer toour, my race age.
My race age is 59.
45.

Kush (16:19):
you started biking your mid 40s.
And it's funny how since Istarted this show, I am meeting
more and more, let's say,remarkable seasoned athletes
who, contrary to firstimpressions, Started their,

(16:41):
their sports journey at, uh, ata later age by conventional,
standards.
The thing that is, I think,badass about what you're doing
is, as somebody who's dabbled inmountain biking, I know how
difficult of a sport it can be.
It is an enthralling sport.
And I remember taking a littleclass.

(17:05):
I hired somebody to teach mesome basic, uh, basic, uh,
Skills, jumps, whatnot.
This is, I started this overCOVID and he was this young
buck, you know, maybe, uh, inhis late teens.
I just found him on some forumand he was trying to be patient
and helping me learn how tonavigate this, uh, in my

(17:25):
opinion, uh, blue black, uh,type of, uh, downhill and it was
scary and it was hard and Irealized I don't have A
particularly extreme bent ofmind, even though yes, in some
ways I do conventionally extremesports.
I was talking to him and then Italked to other people and I, I

(17:48):
started thinking that this isone of the sports like
gymnastics.
You have to acquire thosetechnical skills and the muscle
memory and some of thosefundamentals early, but you are,
you are, uh, breaking mythinking here.

Matt (18:03):
so if I were coaching you through that blue black trail, I
would just take you through itthree times a week, every week
for 10 weeks.
You know, it, just as you becomemore and more familiar with it,
it's less and less scary.
I was in a race this past Sundaythere's a, what I think is a
fairly technical downhillsection, um, with, uh, a lot of

(18:26):
loose rock.
Uh, and if you didn't know whatyou were doing, you can get hurt
really bad.
Um, and the first time I rodethat was during a race, which is
just nuts to ride it blind on arace day.
And it scared the, it scared thedickens out of me.
And I ended up like walking downmost of it.

(18:48):
And other people that I knewthat I was.
equally skilled or experiencedwith when they came, you know,
bombing through there.
And the difference was they'dbeen down it multiple times
before.
And so I think for me, thedevelopment of those skills and,

(19:10):
uh, overcoming of fear is, Is,uh, just through not necessarily
repetition, but throughexperience, just doing it and
things like it more andexperiencing it over and over
and making it become familiar.
Uh, and, uh, right.
We're scared of things we don'tunderstand or we haven't seen

(19:30):
before.
And the more you become familiarwith it, the less scary it is.
And this hearing me say this tomyself out loud is.
Kind of coaching me to, youknow, it, I have this constant
reminder that I need to ridetechnical terrain more
frequently so that I am morefamiliar with it, more

(19:50):
comfortable with it.
Uh, and I think like a lot ofpeople, I end up, um, uh,
resorting to what's mostconvenient.
And, you know, that's justbreaking out the road bike and
going down the cycling path and,you know, going over to the park
and whipping around four timesand coming home.
When, in fact, What'll make me abetter mountain biker is to ride

(20:14):
my mountain bike more.
And so it sounds so simple, but,familiarity, I think the key.

Kush (20:22):
it is indeed true that, some of this becomes self
fulfilling prophecy.
As we get older, people tell us,or we start thinking that we
shouldn't be doing somethingbecause we're older and we can
acquire those skills.
And then the less you attemptthose skills, the harder it's
going to become for us to getgood at them.
So I certainly do want to tapinto some of your learnings as a

(20:43):
coach now, but going back tosome of your beginnings, Matt,
did you find a coach foryourself or were you self
taught?

Matt (20:52):
I would say I was mentored, um, by some very, very
patient people.
Um, and you know, the differencebetween a mentor and a coach is
that, you know, a mentor willshare what they have learned,
um, whereas a coach will helpyou discover.
I come from a very formalcoaching background before

(21:14):
outside of athletic coaching.
I come from a leadership andperformance coaching background.
I do this at work as part of myjob as well.
when I say coaching, I think ofit in the leading somebody
through the discovery processand problem solving process.
I had some really solid.

(21:34):
Mentors and very patient peoplewho were willing to teach me and
go through that learning and,uh, familiarity, um, with me
and, uh, early in my, mymountain biking.
Um, and again, I think it was,it was slow, right?
It was just a lot of just ridingthe bike on gravel paths in

(21:58):
Germany, which are everywhere,you know, the.
A lot of Europe is just lacedwith these, you know, uh, fire
roads and how they manage theforests.
Right?
you know, let me circle back onanother point that you made.
You discover how folks in their40s start picking up sports on
this.
I really believe this has to dowith.

(22:20):
often becoming empty nesters orchildren becoming more
independent and it frees up alot of time, people in their
forties, fifties.
I think have a little moreflexibility in their schedule.
I got a couple more dollars intheir pocket to a little, a
little bit more disposableincome.
these are now my talking pointsthat I try to put on to race

(22:41):
directors all the time that youreally need to have more
categories for 40 plus 50 plus60 plus 70 plus, because you put
those categories there, peoplewill want to come.
And you don't need to give themprize money.
You just need to give them theopportunity to, uh, to have this

(23:02):
experience.
Again, it might be simplythere's, three women that show
up in the 50 to 60 category.
Great.
Let's give them the opportunityto experience that, stand on the
podium, take the picture, theypost it on their social media.
And what a rewarding experiencethat is.
And, far too often, thatopportunity is not there, I went

(23:25):
off on a rant.

Kush (23:27):
It, it was not off tangent.
You are right, right, uh, wherethe, the meat of this show is,
which is about inspiring us tocontinue doing these things and
to chase dreams.
which others may not think, uh,makes sense.

(23:47):
ageism, I think, is certainly apart of society.

Matt (23:50):
Absolutely.

Kush (23:52):
that perhaps things are changing now because maybe,
maybe in more mainstream sports,you do see athletes continue to
excel at a later age.
In some of our niche sports,it's maybe slower to come, but
there are people setting anexample, people such as yourself
and others.
I just think that, you know,People will see athletes do well

(24:15):
in their 30s and 40s, but therecognition and the acceptance
like opening up categories forlike the 50s, 60s, 70s, I think
those are yet to come, but, buthopefully those things are
coming.
Going back into your racecareer, Matt.
So let's see, you started,picked up biking, became
obsessed in your mid 40s.

(24:35):
so now you're maybe about 15years or so into mountain
biking.
Love for you to share some ofyour, uh, apex moments as a
mountain biker, whether it'sracing, absolutely new racing,
but maybe even outside ofracing.

Matt (24:52):
okay.
So my, uh, first mountain bikemarathon was a milestone for me
because I, you know, completedthe first one I attempted.
I was, um,

Kush (25:02):
And sorry, is the marathon again, is it, uh, in the same
vein as, uh, as, as like runningthat?
Is it like 26 miles?

Matt (25:10):
There's a lot of online debate.
What is harder?
A running marathon or a mountainbike marathon?
You know, it's all I, I mightargue that a mountain bike
marathon is, is far moredifficult because it takes far
more attention and far morefocus for probably twice as
long.
a runner would say, well, youknow, uh, running a marathon is

(25:33):
very difficult on your body.
You know, anything, once youpass that mile 20 point, it's
just, now it's extreme mentalchallenge, extreme difficult,
uh, on your body and it's a testof will.
I think those are the same inour sport as well.
they're different.
but mountain bike marathon istypically 50 miles to a hundred

(25:54):
K.
So I did my first one, inMunich, uh, Germany.
And then I did another one thatsame year.
So now I did two in one year.
Then that would've been 2013 or14.
And then I did a couple more,and then I, next thing I know,
I, I've done maybe like eight ayear, and this is now 2017 or

(26:20):
so.
and in fact in 2016, I did myfirst a hundred mile mountain
bike craze.
but apex accomplishmentsgenerally happened in 2019.
I had a very successful year.
Finish.
I compete in this series calledthe National Ultra Endurance
Mountain Bike Race Series, andit's a series of about 10 events

(26:44):
across North America.
Uh, this year there's one inSpain as well that's included in
this series, for years, it wasif you, take your best four
finishes of that series.
And then you were, you know,ranked.
And so in 2019, I finished thirdnationally in the master's
category, which was 50 and upand I'm very pleased with myself

(27:06):
with, with that, uh, result.
I also won a gravel race out inMontana that same year.
that was an interesting race andprobably as difficult as any
mountain bike race I've everdone because.
It was a 57 mile race, but thefirst 40 miles of it is one
single climb.

(27:26):
So it's a 40 mile climb.
Then I think, yeah, then it was12 miles to descend that same
amount of elevation.
And then it was five miles onthe flat.
So it was 40, 40, 12, five.
So yeah, 40 going up, 12 goingdown and five to finish.

(27:46):
So 57 miles.
It's called the tour togravelly.
It's out of Ennis, Montana.
It's part of the greaterYellowstone adventure series.
So not only did I win themaster's category, but I won,
won the overall, I was the firstone to cross the finish line.
So that, uh, that was really,really exciting.
2019 was, was my banner year.

(28:07):
and like we talked aboutearlier, Success, pre success.
I was all geared up, full go,all chips in for 2020.
you know, I had made all kindsof logistics plans.
I had bought a lot of newequipment.
I had, uh, really preparedmyself, uh, mentally very well

(28:28):
and, coming into the 2020season.
And then, uh, I went to mycycling camp out in Tucson.
I had a great experience outthere in March.
And.
Maybe within three days ofcoming back from that cycling
camp, the world just turnedupside down.

Kush (28:45):
Very nice.
Congratulations.
yeah,

Matt (28:48):
Thanks.

Kush (28:49):
Mountain biking, again, is such an interesting sport.
I'm trying to put myself in inthe picture of a mountain bike
racer.
Like I said, I'm on bike alittle bit myself, very
recreationally.
And it's such a technicallydemanding sport.
When I do some other, let's say,when I go maybe for a run or a
road bike, I will have my, myheadphones on and listen to

(29:11):
music and podcasts.
I found that I could not do thatat all.
You have to be so focused.
So now you're racing In these,insanely long courses, like the
one you described, and evenlonger, you have to keep your
focus on, you have to, you know,look out for, your physical
needs.
Also for bikers around you, howdo you manage the couple of

(29:37):
things I want to ask you about,uh, the situation.
So one is managing some of thephysical risk comes with
mountain biking.
I wonder, are you scouting someof these trails?
Are you figuring out, you know,where you should navigate, how
you should navigate?
That's one thing.
Secondly, I want to ask you, youare not the trail yourself.

(29:58):
are crashes normal?
Like, are you crashing people?
You, how do you avoid thosethings?
Some of, yeah, if you get mydrift, that's kind of what I
want to understand is like, whathappens with managing some of
these aspects?

Matt (30:10):
if some of my cycling friends see this deal, they'll
say, oh, yes, he crashes becauseuh, for years, I, I crashed
almost every ride I would ever,ever went on.
and in fact, I think there wereyears where I had at least one
crash in every single race.
now knock on wood, I haven't hadany significant crashes this
year, but I definitely becamefamiliar with the emergency

(30:35):
room, you know, uh, a lot ofbroken ribs, um, and I had a
really bad, uh, concussion.
Well, I've had two really badconcussions in the past 10
years.
Um, again, I think it comes, uh,through preparation and
familiarity.
And that.
Develops confidence because likeyou said, we are weaving through

(30:58):
the forest.
Um, and every single tree isreaching out and trying to grab
your handlebar.
You know, um, every every rockis trying to slip its way
underneath your rear wheel tokick it out.
Um, every route is slippery ortrying to grab your pedal.
I've had that happen whereyou're, you're, you're, you're

(31:20):
pedaling and.
A route that's up off the groundwill just grab that puddle.
And it's like, uh, it's like aplane landing on an aircraft
carrier.
It just arrests you and you'lljust.
You'll just fly right over thebike.
Um, yes, there are people andthere are occasionally, you

(31:40):
know, a little bumping orrubbing, you know, with, with
single track trail is typicallyvery narrow.
that said There's a lot ofcourtesy in mountain biking.
There's a lot of, um, etiquette,it'll come naturally.
If anybody's thinking aboutpursuing this and then, Oh, I
don't really know what theetiquette rules are.
It'll come natural.
You just want to be courteous.

(32:02):
So what happens to me veryfrequently is someone will come
up on a long descent and say,Hey, can I get by?
You know, yes, just a moment,you know, let me find a wide
turn and I'll go extra wide.
You take the right, I'll get inon the left.
And so, there's not a lot ofthat in, especially in the, the
longer events.

(32:22):
In the, the shorter events,there's maybe a little bit more,
well, a lot more aggression.
And there's a little bit more oflike, maybe leaning into
somebody next to you and, andthings like that, which, again,
through experience, it's, Um,you just become comfortable
with, to, to your points about,uh, like danger or risk of

(32:42):
injury and all that, I guess I,I don't, I don't find it much
different than many of the otherthings we pursue, you know, I,
I, we live in a dangerous world,right?
We get in a car and drive 80,you know, 70 miles per hour down
the highway all the time, and wedon't think anything of it, you
know, but we know that's one ofthe most common ways people are

(33:05):
killed all across our country.
Right.
Uh, you know, we eat food thatwe don't know where it came
from, you know, very, um, andpeople get ill from.
I think you have to kind of, um,categorize and weigh the risk,
um, and, and then calculate.

(33:27):
It, you know, is, is this riskI'm not willing to take.
And I think experiencedefinitely reduces that as you
become more familiar with whatthe risk is and how to manage
it.
uh, but you had, uh, anotherpoint about concentration.
I find that there's a lot oftransferable skills, uh, between

(33:49):
the work I do, uh, in theoffice.
You know, managing, whether itbe managing budgets, managing
people, managing projects anddeadlines and things like that,
as well as just having all thosethings going on simultaneously,
you know, in a mountain bikerace, I have many things going
on simultaneously.

(34:09):
I'm trying to apply a certainlevel of power, you know,
wattage, uh, you know, in, intomy pedals at some given point, I
want to keep an eye on my pace.
I want to keep an eye on wheremy competitors are, uh, you
know, people that I'm targetingto compete with.

(34:29):
I want to keep an eye on mysurroundings, you know, like, is
there someone coming up on me?
Am I coming up on somebody?
So you're managing severalthings simultaneously.
And I think of the, theseskills, or again, I've used this
word a hundred times alreadytoday, familiarity, it becomes,
that, that chaos becomesfamiliar, you, you learn to

(34:51):
prioritize and to.
Sing, single out what you needto focus on in this moment, um,
and let, let the rest of it kindof trust yourself and, and stay
in that flow.

Kush (35:05):
Incredible indeed, how with practice and discipline,
one can make very difficultthings seem reasonable.
this.
Three dimensional world that ismountain biking indeed that, you
know, all kinds of hazards, butwhich also make for a very
compelling experience.

Matt (35:25):
let me, let me interject one thing and try to soak in
some of the beauty andwonderment of being outside.

Kush (35:34):
Yeah, I want to actually double down on that in a second.
One kind of a bit of apedestrian question here is with
some of my mountain bikingfriends, you know, this, this
question comes up aboutprotective gear we should have
on our recreation rides.
I will go out with a simple, youknow, MIPS helmet, I think.

(35:55):
And then sometimes I'll wearpads, sometimes I won't wear
pads.
I want to ask you what kind ofprotective gear do you have when
you do this riding?
What kind of protective gear didyou either embrace or discard as
you progressed through stages?

Matt (36:16):
MIPS helmet, very important for those that aren't
familiar.
MIPS, is a, technology within ahelmet that is like a shell
inside a shell.
So, When your head hits theground and twists, the helmet
will twist and your head doesn'tnecessarily.
the helmet costs 200 or more,only spend on a helmet what you
think your head is worth, right?

(36:37):
that's, that's a no brainer.
You gotta have a MIPS helmet if,I think if you're, if you're
going to.
Be pursuing mountain bikingseriously.
other protective gear gloves,I'd really think is absolutely
mandatory.
Um, and it has to do withcrashing more than anything
else.
Um, anybody that's crashed amountain bike with bare hands
will, will tell you, you want tohave gloves on.

(37:00):
That's generally it for me.
now when I go out like I say,scouting a new course, there are
some, for example, the USAcycling mountain bike marathon
national championship in 2021and 22 was on a course, not too
far from here in Maryland, uh,Gamble state park, very
technical terrain, verydangerous.

(37:21):
during the nationalchampionships, several people
got injured very seriously, waymore technical, challenging than
I so I went out with, uh, kneepads and elbow pads, you know,
um, the first several times, uh,that I wanted to learn my way
through the course, learn thelines I wanted to take, and

(37:45):
become familiar with it.
The first time I raced it in2021, I did wear, um, knee pads
and elbow pads, and I think Iwas the only one.
And I'm like, okay, so, so thisis what gives me the confidence
to, to ride as fast as I can, ashard as I can, as long as I can.
And then in the second year, uh,I, I, I had shed them by that

(38:06):
point.
Um, I didn't have knee pads orelbow pads, but I think for
anybody starting out in you'relearning a new course and trail.
Knee pads, elbow pads,absolutely make sense.
you will fall again.
You, it's just part of the deal.
It's, um, it's like saying, youknow, you're not going to fall
playing soccer.

(38:27):
You're not going to fall playingfootball.
You're going to fall.
It's part of, it's essentiallypart of the sport.
Um, doing it smartly.
minimizing it and, are importantaspects of it, but it's, it's
going to happen.
So, yeah, helmet, knee pads,elbows, elbow pads, gloves.
and then proper shoe, I think isimportant also.

(38:50):
I see a lot of beginners notwear a good shoe.
And when I say good shoe,meaning with a stiff sole and
that's not so much protectivegear, that's more about, um,
just a pedaling efficiency as tohave a very stiff sole, if you
go out there and you're runningshoes, you know, with a very
flexible sole, uh, you're notgoing to transfer power

(39:12):
efficiently into the pedals.
something like a skate,skateboarder shoe, you know, or
the old school Chuck Converse,you know, uh, or Converse Chuck
Taylors, uh, something like thatwith that stiff sole is even a
better beginner shoe than arunning shoe, silly as that
sounds.

Kush (39:28):
Yeah, I have, uh, these climbing approach shoes made by
510 and I think 510 also makes,uh, smart biking shoes and I
looked at those shoes and I'mlike, you know, they're really
similar.
So I just do double duty withmy, with my approach

Matt (39:44):
They probably, yeah, fine.
So,

Kush (39:47):
where I am, I think they're totally fine.
What about a full face helmet?
As compared to what you read.
I'm guessing for racing days, itprobably doesn't make sense.

Matt (40:00):
for, yeah, you know, I don't really know the full logic
of, like many sports, you justkind of have what's the norm,
and it's just not the norm inour sport to wear a full face
helmet in downhill racing, forsure.
Where you're really likely toget hurt bad, um, then, then,

(40:23):
yeah, uh, I think this mightalso be a function of.
You know, breathing and, uh,whether you, you run the risk
of, your eye protection gettingfoggy.
Oh, that's another safety eyeprotection period that no matter
what, I, there are a few folksthat will ride without eye
protection of some kind, but,um, but I've graduated to the

(40:47):
point to where I generally ridewith contacts, but I'll still
wear eye protection.
But getting back to full facehelmet, there are some, you
know, they have even some thatare convertible where like the
bottom part snaps off and I havea friend that, that wears those
and I, uh, you know, he'll, hehas it kind of like tucked in
his pack or something, you know,and then for a real nasty long

(41:12):
descent, he'll, he'll put thaton that gives him the
confidence, you know, that hecan maybe, you know, be, uh,
slightly more aggressive.
Okay.
Whatever you can do to instillconfidence is a positive thing,
right?
So, and feeling safe is going toinstill confidence.

Kush (41:33):
Yeah, can't, can't say those words, uh, you know, too
many times.
Whatever one needs to feelconfident and feel safe.
And maybe, uh, uh, on the sideof being conservative is, is
probably a good idea.
Now, this, this thing that youbriefly mentioned it, which I'm

(41:54):
really excited to ask you aboutis it is such a demanding sport
on the body and the mind and thetraining and the grueling
intensity of like the superlong, Enduro races, you know,
what is it that keeps you comingback for more?

(42:16):
And, and, you know, yeah, afterall that training, hundreds of
hours of like work, what do youget out of it?
You, you talked about the, youknow, the nature element.
So we'd love for you to talkabout that as well.

Matt (42:30):
anybody that studies wellness recognizes being
outside is super important,right?
just breathing outdoor air isimportant.
Getting some sunshine on yourface is important.
putting yourself in, a newenvironment, uh, or a relaxing
environment, unplugging that'sall goodness, right?
All that said, I don'tnecessarily do this for the

(42:54):
purpose of getting outside.
I think it's a, it's a bonus.
Um, I will go back to thecompetitive thing that not
something.
Um, it's just within me.
That's just part of what who Iam.
but what brings me back everyyear, I think is largely the
people largely FOMO fear ofmissing out.

(43:18):
but I think the biggest thingis.
honoring my ability, uh, andcapability.
And I have, I'm able to do this,therefore I'm going to do it.
Um, there will be a point whereI'm not able to do this anymore.
and that day could be, thatcould happen this year, you

(43:39):
know, that could happen nextyear.
but while I'm able to do it, Ineed to, I feel a need.
Again, to, to honor that abilityand that, um, that good fortune
that I've gotten to this pointin my life and have some
resources to enable me, uh, soI, yeah, I feel, um, an

(44:06):
obligation to myself and to theothers who have helped me get to
where I am to, to follow throughwith this, to continue to follow
through with it.
Until I can't anymore.
it's, uh, almost an unselfishhonoring, even though one of the
external people is myself.
One of the people that I'mhonoring is, is, is myself.

(44:29):
And I'm not even sure how tounpack that.
Respect It does actually makesense.
You have this calling and thereis this, this need to respect
that calling.
You of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a respect for, I talk aboutthis in my coaching all the time

(44:50):
is respect.
for yourself is, is, is the rootof any degree of, of confidence
and success, you know, is, isbased on respect.

Kush (45:00):
We spoke about your racing journey a bit yourself.
Yes.
And, uh, besides racing foryourself, you are also a coach,
you coach other, uh, athletes.
Do you think you are moretalented as a coach or as an
athlete?

(45:20):
I think you mentioned you bringa background of training from
your, uh, regular career.
And I'm guessing those aspectshelp your, coaching in some way.
And then do the two in front ofthe other.
to your athletic performance andyour coaching.

Matt (45:39):
Yes to all that.
Um, so let me, let me tackle thetalent one first.
I definitely think I'm a moretalented coach than a talented
athlete.
And I think a lot of that comesfrom some of the things you
mentioned earlier is, I amcurious and introspective.

(46:00):
And I genuinely want people tosucceed.
You know, I want you to succeed.
I want anybody who lives nearyou to succeed.
I want, I want all of us tosucceed.
and I do see it as myresponsibility.
to, in whatever way I can, asmuch as possible.
I think I'm more, more talentedas a coach.

(46:23):
It is becoming an increasingpercentage of my life every
year.
There's only one pie andthere's, you know, multiple
different slices and the, thesize of each slice changes every
year.
Right.
I do spend more time on coachingand preparing for my coaching
sessions, um, each year, um, I'mspending more time with that as

(46:47):
well as developing trainingplans that are available, that
make available circle back tothe original part of that
question.
because I find myself as anathlete making, mistakes that I
think, most coaches would pickup on immediately.
generally overtraining, is mymost common athletic, mistake.

(47:11):
training for the wrong reasons.
Um, you know, not necessarilytraining to get better, but
training so that I can crew moremiles per week, and kind of,
again, put the gold starstogether than really what is
best for my body.
maybe not get the rest that Ineed.

(47:31):
maybe put too many things on myplate that, uh, you know, a
coach would.
would.
recognize.
So, um, so yeah, I think mycoaching then helps me regulate
my athletic pursuit, my cycling,maybe it's too late, but I often

(47:54):
find myself making errors andthen correct, um, and adjust.
for sure the, um, my experience,having raced in a lot of places,
you know, a lot of differentformats helps in the coaching as
well.
But I think, I have a, a lot ofmy work experience helps in the

(48:17):
coaching also is because I, youknow, I've, I've been a
supervisor of dozens and dozensof people, you know, maybe 100
people over the years.
And I, work on problem solvingwith them all the time.
And you, uh, you have to listen,you have to engage, you have to
treat each, um, uh, circumstanceas a unique.

(48:41):
issue.
And so I generally think I do apretty good job of, of focusing
on, on the issue at hand and,and being creative in resolving
it.
there are many aspects of what'sgoing on in my work life, my
coaching life, my athleticpursuit, my family life.

(49:02):
I think they all inform eachother.
the, the trick is to optimize,right?
And the challenge, I should say,the game is to how to, how to
get them all to synchronize justright.
Um, so that they're all mutuallysupport, so they're all
supportive of each other.
And this is, the big challengethat I end up coaching a lot of

(49:24):
people through at work is thework life balance challenge.
And, you know, and I think.
I like to reframe it as justlife balance.
You have many things in yourlife to balance and to
synchronize.
And I use this meaning likegears.
You have many things to getlined up, uh, with each other so
that they can be, uh, supportiveof each other.

(49:47):
a lot of this comes throughdeveloping habits and routines.
using, different people havedifferent methods.
I like, structure and calendarsand lists and, you know, and,
um, what we, what we call habitstacking.
Do you know what that is?
Where you have maybe a habit andthen you, you associate it with

(50:08):
another habit and what you'retrying to develop.
those kinds of things, are allpart of my life, but in, in
different aspects,

Kush (50:16):
Thanks for elaborating on that.
Habit stacking and structure.
Those are, those becomeimportant when one is trying to
juggle many things.
What are some things you'velearned in your own training as
well as training others on whatworks well and what does not
work well, especially for.

(50:37):
older athletes.
For example, you mentionedovertraining.
So that is, that could be onething.
You mentioned the importance ofstructure just diving a little
bit deeper into the actualtraining, even to the point of
understanding what is thebalance between training on the
bicycle versus training off thebicycle

Matt (50:59):
we often focus on the training when the training is a
means to the end, right, wedon't spend enough time,
formulating exactly what the endis, I have adopted this formula
of envision, plan, prepare,execute.
And so the envision part I thinkis the most important part.
And it's, envisioning what youwant to be or envisioning the

(51:24):
outcome that you want to pursue.
And as part of that exercise, Iask people to close their eyes,
think about that goal, thinkabout that.
And think about the next dayafter they've accomplished it.
and what do they feel?

(51:45):
Where do they feel it in theirbody?
How does that make them feel?
And then we hold on to that fora little bit.
And so again, this, this worksat work as well.
You know, I want to, I want toget promoted.
I want to balance my budget.
I want to reconcile my books.
I want to resolve this conflictwith my boss.

(52:07):
each of those objectives Itpursued as an end that next day,
once you've resolved this, howdoes that feel?
that helps you gauge what you'rewilling to do to get there.
if the feeling is, well, youknow, maybe that wasn't such a
big deal that I resolved that,then that helps inform what
you're willing to do to getthere, but if it's going to be a

(52:30):
life changing.
a very, very satisfying resultthat we want to emphasize the
importance of achieving that.
then ask yourself, what are youwilling to do to get there?
You know, and then we startdeveloping a plan to get to what

(52:50):
we've envisioned.
when, once we develop that plan,then we have to prepare along
the way.
And that in, in that preparationis training ourselves, equipping
ourselves.
and, uh, simulating some of thatexperience.
And then you go ahead and stepoff and execute that plan.

(53:11):
And it, it becomes selfexecutable once, once you,
again, you have practiced andtrained and equipped yourself to
pursue this.
So that, that structuredapproach of envision, plan,
prepare, execute, I think isapplicable.
To any, most, any goal orientedpursuit.

(53:38):
And again, in cycling, like anyother sport, we've, we spent so
much of our time focused on thetraining methods.
And we can talk about that in aminute.
but really having a clearunderstanding of what you're
trying to do will help informwhat you need to put in place to
get there.

Kush (53:59):
that matrix that you laid out.

Matt (54:01):
envision.
plan, prepare, execute.

Kush (54:05):
Absolutely.
maybe we can do a tiny bit ofrole playing.

Matt (54:09):
Sure.

Kush (54:11):
So let's say somebody comes to you and they want to
participate as a, as a newmountain biker in a 50 mile
mountain bike race.
How would you begin with layingdown their training plan?
The mountain bike race could be,let's say, give it like six

(54:33):
months.
down the line.

Matt (54:35):
So again, I would start with why is this important to
you?
and you know, why, why, why doyou want to do this?
And, uh, you know, I don't, Idon't know how much you want to
role play here,

Kush (54:47):
I love mountain biking and the idea of experiencing a race
and seeing what I'm capable ofcould be really fascinating for
me to explore.
And I love having these longterm goals and working towards
them, but ultimately it comesback to the love of mountain
biking, the love of a challenge.

(55:10):
And what it allows me to, somaybe I think people in the
running world do this a lot, youknow, they join like, uh, let's
do a marathon club and theywould prepare for marathon
together.
And for me, mountain biking isfascinating.
And, uh, that's where we beginfrom.

Matt (55:28):
Yeah.
So there, and interestingly,there are opportunities to train
as a group for the, so like amountain, like a running club,
there are, there are smallerclubs, not, not, not as common
as there used to be, but thatwould train together it was
interesting to hear you say,I've got six months to prepare
for it.

(55:48):
Um, because, you know, whatyou've done is immediately put a
limitation on, you know, thetime we have to plan and prepare
I, I wouldn't say that that's aproblem other than Let's explore
what, what we can really getdone during that time and be
open to the idea that if thisgoes well for you this year, you

(56:11):
might want to do it again nextyear or six months after.
And so in fact, what youexperience at this rate, six
months from now might be even agreater experience if you then a
year from now, Have a personalrecord, you know, so that you,
you do better even.

(56:32):
with an endurance sports, uh, Ithink you'll find that, uh, it's
often a multiple year, um,pursuit to achieve, I don't want
to say to achieve your goal, butto achieve some level of
satisfaction, it depends on thegoal, it really depends on the

(56:52):
goal and what it means to theperson and how important it is.
it, and it's, it generally fallsback to the why, you know, why,
why, why is this important toyou?
Uh, and again, I don't, I don't,I don't ever try to put somebody
on the spot or make themuncomfortable, but it's, it's,
it's important to me.
I'm asking that of the person sothat they can hear themselves

(57:15):
say it.
It's not because it matters tome.
It's not going to impact, youknow, my life other than it
helps inform how I help prepareyou.
you.
Telling yourself by telling meyou hear yourself explain why
this is important to you.
That's enormously reinforcing,you know, that, that ties, all

(57:37):
that back together and, andreally, speaks to your ego,
speaks to your identity, of whoyou are and what you're capable
of.
And that's super, superimportant.

Kush (57:48):
I really appreciate that.
I think being able to clarifythat for oneself, because
something, Like this could bequite audacious for somebody
who's a beginner and gettinginto it for the Wrong reasons or
let's say getting into it forreasons that are not very clear

(58:09):
to oneself Can probably not beas successful in achieving
whatever outcome one is hopingfor.
So let's say that we are able togo through that process and we,
and then we come up with all ofthat and whatever the
articulation might be.
One thing about the training,which I think you talked about

(58:32):
earlier, which is a little bitmaybe different than let's say a
road race or a slightly lesstechnical.
Some of the stuff can, a lot ofcoaches are able to operate
online these days.
Somebody who is still learninghow to navigate, slightly
technical trails, much less tryto race down them.

(58:53):
You mentioned earlier, Hey, youwould go with me and, you know,
you would accompany me until,and help.
Is your coaching onlineentirely, or are you also
working with people in person?
And let's say, would you takesomebody?
A remote, client, if they arestill learning the technical

(59:16):
nuances of the sport.

Matt (59:18):
what I specialize in and I think I am most valuable to
clients is in coaching themthrough the, the goal
development and the, and thetraining plan, which can almost
all be done remotely, the actualskills development, I would

(59:39):
recommend finding someone whospecializes in that.
Um, similarly, Without question,this generally will get into the
discussion of nutrition.
Similarly, I would, I wouldrecommend, you know, I can offer
you some, some things that Ithink are important, and some,
training, approaches that, youknow, providing nutrition and

(01:00:01):
hydration during training and onrace day, some things that I
think are, are important, but ifyou're trying to pair this
pursuit with losing weight andwhatever, you know, I think
that's where you want to.
You want to look for, uh,someone who specializes in that.
And I know this then starts tounravel into, Hey, I need nine

(01:00:21):
specialized, you know, uh,practitioners to help me with my
goal, which really was justabout having a good time on a
mountain bike.
That's part of that discoveryand exploration again about what
it is we're trying to do whilewe're trying to do it.
And I want to be clear, I, Idon't think I would ever
discourage anybody from pursuingit.
I, what I think we want to dois.

(01:00:44):
Is really gauge what it is, andhow realistic it is.
And if, I'm thinking it's maybenot as realistic in the
timeline, then I'm going toshare that with you.
And we will talk about maybemodifying the goal in some way.
You know, maybe you're not doingthe a hundred mile race.
Maybe you do the a hundred Krace, or maybe you do the, you

(01:01:06):
know, hour and a half race.
and something smaller and ormaybe you do some type of
mountain bike adventure insteadof a race, you know, but I mean,
it would be again, I don't and Iwouldn't even necessarily try to
talk you out of anything.
I think what I would end updoing is, helping lead you to

(01:01:27):
your own discovery of what, whatyou're capable of on a, on a
timeline.

Kush (01:01:33):
Yeah, absolutely.

Matt (01:01:36):
But again, I want to, um, you know, I want to circle back
on the, uh, getting tospecialize and having seven
people, you know, you can dothis with one coach.
Um, I think if you want to haveone coach who is going to take
you out, um, And hey, follow methrough this line and all that,

(01:02:00):
then you definitely want to findsomebody local, like local,
local, you know, like probablylike within 20 miles or so, I
guess that's really my, my onlypoint.
And there are really, you'd besurprised how many folks really
are available.
Um, it might become frustratingto, you know, do I just Google
cycling coach?

(01:02:21):
that might be the way to start,but there's generally, uh,
there's a network to work withinand someone might know somebody
and, Hey, I know somebody in SanFrancisco, or I know somebody
that knows somebody in SanFrancisco, or I know a group
that you can reach out to.
like finding the rightspecialist for anything,

(01:02:41):
there's, there's some hit andmiss along the way.
And it, and it does take, um,some determined exploration, but
this finding somebody that'scompatible with you, that, is
interested in helping youachieve your goal is, is not an
impossible task in itself.
There, there, there areresources out there.

Kush (01:03:02):
Articulating that goal and the reasons, I think it becomes,
begins with that step.
And maybe second is like thatbit of, uh, self assessment.
of what one needs to get tothose goals.
And it could be to reaching outto a remote expert, like
yourself, if you, if you happento be remote, or it could be

(01:03:24):
somebody else more local.
And I think you're right that,uh, at least close to most urban
cities, there are people outthere who can help.
I found This person I wasalluding to through, I think it
was a Facebook group and there'scertainly a bit of trial and

(01:03:44):
error to ultimately find theright partner in one's journey
like there is with mostendeavors.
Moving on a little bit, wetouched upon nutrition for a
second.
I know, again, that while it'snot your specialty, You
obviously follow nutritionalguidance for yourself.
So wondering what is your diet,what do you like to fuel

(01:04:07):
yourself with?
Supplements.

Matt (01:04:13):
unless I'm, I think of it maybe with a small d and it, you
know, it's, It's my way ofeating or my way of fueling.
I guess I'm a creature of habit.
Uh, so I generally have, as Imentioned earlier, the, the, the
same breakfast almost everymorning and then adapt it to, if

(01:04:34):
I have a normal work day, I'llhave, you know, This much
oatmeal with one or two thingson top.
If I'm Saturday morning and I'mgoing out on a big ride, I might
have this much oatmeal, right?
You know, or if it's race day,I'm going to add some fats in
there or something.
and then I have almost the samelunch most every day and which

(01:04:56):
is really just a ham sandwich, abunch of chopped carrots and a
small bag of nuts that Iprepare, which are.
almonds and walnuts.
I generally have a banana inthe, about one o'clock in the
afternoon.
then I'm on the trainer usuallyby four and, uh, or, or on a

(01:05:18):
bike, somewhere by four mostwork days.
I'm taking, you know, one ofthe, uh, powdered, uh,
nutrition, fuels.
Uh, generally I'm a, I'm aliquid fuel only, um, during
training and racing.
Uh, I really don't eat any solidfood.
everybody's a little different.
but I would generally recommendpushing people towards that

(01:05:43):
methodology, um, if possible, ifthey can, if they can, uh, train
themselves to, to go liquid onlyduring long events.
There, there's many benefits toit.
that's about it.
I don't, uh, I don't need a lotof sweets.
Pardon?
I do, you know, um, I don't talkabout this much to a lot of
people, but I do, uh,

Kush (01:06:03):
collagen, uh, I think at

Matt (01:06:04):
yeah, yeah, so I take, I take collagen.
This was kind of, you know, Idon't know if it's, uh, uh, a
placebo or not, but I'm tellingyou, it, uh, my shoulders feel
better.
I think a lot of cyclists, notjust mountain bikers, a lot of
cyclists struggle with shoulderhealth of all things.
You wouldn't think it, but a lotof it just has your body

(01:06:28):
position.
You put a lot of weight.
Uh, uh, through transfers ofyour torso through your
shoulder, in mountain biking.
Of course, there's a lot ofvibration and a lot of control.
And so some people struggle withwrists.
I generally struggle with, withshoulders.
I've had a few shoulder injuriesas a result of crashes and all
that, um, tears and all that, Ifind that the, uh, the collagen.

(01:06:53):
relieves a lot of, it's not somuch pain relief.
It's just kind of, I feel moreflexible and, and it maybe took
30 days or so, but this has beenabout two years that I've been
doing this.
It's just one little scoop everyday.
other supplements is I do, I dosubscribe to, it's called
Thorne, T H O R N E, and it's a,uh, it's a daily vitamin regimen

(01:07:18):
where it's, it's two, two, twocapsules, three capsules in the
morning and three capsules inthe evening, and evening one has
a little bit of melatonin in it,you know, to kind aid with
sleep, but it's, uh, thornresearch I think is the, the
product.
again, I get that throughsubscription through Amazon and
it's, it's one of those things Ido without, I'm kind of mindless

(01:07:42):
about it.
I don't even think about it.
Is it, is it worth it?
Is it not worth it?
I don't know.
I just do it.
I think the times I've missedit, I've not felt myself.
So I just continue to do it andthe cost is not prohibitive.
I think it's about 60 a monthand saying that out loud does
sound expensive, but, but I, Ijust becomes absorbed into my

(01:08:03):
monthly expenses.
and I, I've been taking thatfor, since I think 2018 or 19.
And then dinner is usuallypretty, pretty modest.
It's usually, uh, some type of,uh, chicken or pork and, a
vegetable and then a starch likerice.
Uh, and so, yeah, a lot of rice,a lot of vegetables.

(01:08:27):
a lot of chicken, a lot of pork,not so much red meat.
not a lot of sauces, things likethat.
I'll steal a french fry from mywife now and then, but generally
I'm not eating, you know, a bagof french fries.
I'll have a flat pizza now andthen, but I'm not a You know, a
big pizza eater.
I have not been in a BurgerKing, McDonald's, Wendy's, or

(01:08:50):
anything like that in at least10 years, I did end up going
through an Arby's about a yearago.
And it was not a good, I justfelt horrible afterwards.
And I think it's just, uh, it'snot necessarily a, like a, uh,
Uh, a choice of good, bad, uh,it's just something I decided I,

(01:09:13):
I didn't need or want anymore inmy life, so I don't, you know,
I, preparing my meals takes alittle extra time, but it, I
think it's well worth it, and Itry to, try to eat as clean as
possible, I just feel, feelbetter doing it that way, but
I'm curious, is there an aspectof my diet that you're, uh, that

(01:09:36):
I, that I've left out?
think is the other big thing.
Um, a lot, a lot of water, a lotof water, so pretty much as much
as I can.
Get in me.
Um, so I have a water bottlewithin arm's reach 24 seven.

Kush (01:09:53):
I love drinking water all the time.
And.
About preparing one's own meals.
Yeah, I think I also do a lot ofthat and it's not because there
is somebody telling me to dothat.
I think I just feel more, morein control.
And I also feel that if I eat agreasy meal late at night, I

(01:10:14):
just feel awful after that.
So I think a lot of it is justme

Matt (01:10:18):
Let me, let me riff off that point about control in
that.
I think it really, it's reducinganxiety or reducing risk, uh,
more than necessarily for mebeing in control.
It's if, for example, if I wentto work without a lunch.
you know, in the morning, likehoping that I would find lunch

(01:10:38):
somewhere.
Now I've added a task, you know,I've added this, I must go hunt
and, and find, you know,something to eat.
And so not only do I have tofind something to eat, but I
have to find something to eatthat fits within what, now I
have to think about what I want.
And so it adds a whole lot ofstress and anxiety.

(01:10:58):
And just the thinking abouthaving to do that is it's going
to enter my thoughts.
And every meeting I have fromeight o'clock until noon.
So I'm going to be thinkingabout where's my next meal
coming from.
And I know where my next meal iscoming from.
It's in my lunch bag.
It's on my desk.
I think it reduces.
Anxiety and stress to prepareyour own.

Kush (01:11:22):
I agree.
Some people would call thatpredictability boring.
I find that reassuring.

Matt (01:11:31):
Ah, comforting.
Yeah.

Kush (01:11:33):
Absolutely.
Um, quickly, just changingtopics, mobility and cross
training.
I find as, as many others, as weget older, our body changes and
We have to train and listen toby differently.
Any kind of mobility andbodywork practices that you have
embraced, you have changed.

(01:11:55):
It could be foam rolling.
It could be stretching.
It could be yoga.
It could be lifting weights.
What do you do Matt to keepyourself in shape when you are
on the bicycle?

Matt (01:12:06):
I do lift regularly.
I lift usually at least once ifnot twice a week.
And that's primarily lower body.
Squats and deadlifts,

Kush (01:12:17):
Do you go heavy, heavy weights?
Do you go for like, you know,the whole push, pull, hinge, uh,
spectrum?

Matt (01:12:24):
Uh, uh, I'm not working upper, you know, I will tell
you, you know, publicly, I don'tdo upper body, but I do, I do
now and then, you know, uh, do aset of curls or, uh, you know, a
little, uh, I'll put, I'll pullthe bench press out, you know,
uh, cause I have, I've set up alittle gym in the basement, but

(01:12:45):
generally it really is on, uh,the, the weight, the strength
training, I will call it thatis.
I have a couple differentworkouts that I do.
It's, I have like an A workoutand a B workout, right?
And so in the A1 it's, uh, it'sdeadlift and lunges.
a little bit of pushups andthings like that.
But, and then the B1 is, is, issquats with the lunges again.

(01:13:08):
Um, I'm not doing what Iprobably should be doing some,
some jumping, you know, boxjumps, things like that.
I do recognize that thatprobably should be in my
routine, but I really do havelow ceilings in my basement.
So I don't want, I don't wantto, you know, experiment with
that.
I probably should.
you know, it's probably a gap ora blind spot for me.

(01:13:29):
the other thing that I think,uh, I'm a, I'm an advocate of is
walking.
And, uh, this really has to dowith, using the muscles and
connective tissue in your legsthat you don't frequently use
when cycling.
So if you're not going to bewalking as part of your job,

(01:13:49):
and, and I generally work in anoffice environment and I don't
walk as off as much as say, likemy wife, who's a teacher, who's
constantly walking, I have to doit, uh, like deliberately.
So.
My rest day, you know, myreligious rest day is, is
generally Mondays.
And what I'll often do is cheatmy rest day by walking.

(01:14:13):
So I'll go on like a, uh, youknow, like a 5k walk around the
neighborhood or something likethat.
And I find that that.
really supplements the cyclingwork really well.
And in fact, for, for the folksI coach, I do put that in during
the last two weeks before arace, to do some walking,

(01:14:33):
because inevitably in mountainbiking, there is what we call
hike a bike, where the coursejust gets too steep to pedal
efficiently.
And you are going to move yourbike faster across this terrain
by walking it than attempting topedal it.
And so, um, whether that bepicking it up or pushing it or

(01:14:53):
whatever, uh, you're going toget it from A to B faster by
walking it than you are bypedaling, stopping, getting back
on, getting back off, uh, andall that.
So in the hamstrings, and, uh,again, all that connective
tissue around your knee, doingsome walking, and ideally on
trail, because that's, that'sreally good for, developing all

(01:15:17):
that connective tissue aroundyour knees and hips and ankles.
Um, but if you can't around thesidewalk where I live, which are
just as uneven as any othertrail, is as valuable for you,
you know, as, as possible.
Walking on hiking on a trail.
So yeah, I think walking issuper important again.

(01:15:38):
It's something that I integrate.
It's something I prescribe Forthe folks that can do it now.
I do have clients that have youknow, lower back trouble and
whatever.
And they're like, eh, you know,walking, it just irritates my
back.
And I'm like, cycling doesn'tlike, no.
And I'm like, okay.
if they don't want to do it, ifthey don't, if they can't see
themselves doing it, then, then,we would work around that

(01:15:58):
somehow.

Kush (01:15:59):
What about mobility and massage and I asked it because

Matt (01:16:04):
Yeah,

Kush (01:16:05):
I mean, you know, you were in that position

Matt (01:16:08):
I know.
so there's a lot of people thatswear by stretching, you know,
now I don't stretch.
Um, you know, there, I guess ifI'm feeling tight, I'll stretch.
I used to have a lot of problemwith like a sciatica.
And so I did this, you know, um,What do you, leg over leg, and
then you hamstring stretch, andyou would, you would, if you had

(01:16:31):
it in your right, you would putyour left over your right and
stretch, and that would stretchout the, that lower right part.
And I used to struggle withthat, but for some reason I
don't have that problem anymore.
Maybe it's the collagen, I don'tknow, but, but for whatever
reason, I don't, I don't havethat sciatic pain anymore.
You know what I do, uh, and Ishould have mentioned this
earlier, is I do a two minuteplank every other day.

(01:16:53):
So this, this is, One of those,uh, habit stacking things that I
have, is part of my gettingready for bed every other day as
I do a two minute plank.
So I think that has probablyhelped to some degree, uh, that
lower back and core.
Um, and I don't, why twominutes?
Why every other day?

(01:17:14):
I don't know.
It's just.
The habit I've fallen into andit seems to be sufficient more,
probably better, less might bebetter.
I don't know.
It's what I do.
but yeah, stretching not somuch.
Um, when I had real bad shoulderproblems, I used to do hangs
from a pull up bar and installeda pull up bar in the rafters in

(01:17:35):
my basement and would do, youknow, a couple of 32nd hangs off
of that.
And, um, Would offer relief, butall it's really doing is pulling
your shoulder joint a point, youknow Part pulls the humerus
away, you know, and so therelief is temporary And you know
eventually it kind of settlesback in and would be a problem

(01:17:55):
because there's I have like alot of people I have a little
osteoarthritis developing on theball the human So that nips away
at the cartilage in there and,again, that just might, I don't,
I don't know what therelationship is between the
collagen and that not hanginganymore, but I don't hang much
anymore, but it was stressfulyoga and on my, my daughter's

(01:18:18):
worried about yoga.
I have done it with her a coupleof times.
it was enjoyable, it's a, forme, it's a time sink and, you
know, that's something that's,that's time I could be sleeping.
sleeping, I think is for me moreimportant than that.
I think sleep is the X factorthat is often overlooked in any

(01:18:39):
training plan, because you getstronger during your recovery,
right?
Not during your training.
And the, the best way to recoveris to sleep.
There's no substitute for

Kush (01:18:49):
Sleep certainlyy is often ignored

Matt (01:18:53):
Sure.
Yeah, yeah.

Kush (01:18:56):
just, just some final questions as we wrap up here,
you know, you have racedcompetitively for many years,
done many kinds of races, anybig goal that you have coming up
that, uh, you are fired upabout?

Matt (01:19:13):
The answer to that was, should be.
Yes, of course.
I have, you know, this is my Arace.
So, I think the approach inputting together this year's
schedule is always A race.
You know, earlier you asked,what keeps you motivated?
Why do you keep coming back?
Why, um, and I was asking myselfa lot of the same questions.
So I talked about it with mywife and do I really want to

(01:19:36):
pursue this race series yearafter year after year?
What, what I've got, you know,for example, I don't know if you
can see, I've got these threegrowlers right here.
They're from a mountain bikerace in Ohio.
That, um, that I did the mount,the Mohican 100.
I'm like, do I need a fourthgrowler?
I don't, I don't know.
Maybe I don't need a fourth one.

(01:19:57):
You know, I've, I've, I've donethat race like, seven times.
When you do the a hundred mileversion, you get the growler.
When you do the a hundred Kversion, you get the pike glass.
I got cupboards full of paintglasses.
Uh, you know, do I need that?
that reward.
And I, you know, decided, no, Idon't need that reward.
Well, what reward do I need?

(01:20:17):
Uh, I want to add some newexperiences.
So this year, I'm doing a race,in Butte, Montana that I've not
done before, mountain bike race.
the long race is the Butte 100,it's a hundred mile mountain
bike race.
the marathon version is the 50miler.
I'm going to do the 50 milerthis year.
And if everything goeswonderfully, then maybe I'll

(01:20:41):
pursue the 100 miler next year.
Again, this goes back to the,Hey, what is your goal?
And what might be a stretch goala year from now?
I'm going to do the, the Butte50 this year.
Uh, that's in July.
That's probably my, the one thatI'm anticipating the most and
the one that really kind ofgeeks me out and, um, you know,

(01:21:02):
watching all the YouTube videosand learning as much as I can
about the other one is, our, Idon't want to say local, our
regional big meeting of thetribal, you know, of the group
of, uh, of our people.
It's called the Shenandoahmountain 100.
It's in Harrisonburg, Virginia,and it, it draws folks in from

(01:21:28):
probably 20 or more states.
for years and years and years,it really became a, a
destination mountain bike event.
And it's, it's one of those thathas, stood the test of time.
I think it's the 24th or 25th,running of it this year.
In fact, this is the shirt, theShenandoah Mountain 100.

(01:21:48):
It's just one of those I have todo.
It's, it's important.
It's, it's important to ourcommunity.
It's just, it's part of myidentity.
This is what I do every LaborDay weekend.
I go to the Shenandoah Mountain100.
It's, it's again, it's the,it's, um, it's the gathering of
our people.
so those are the two big ones,Butte 50 and the Shenandoah

(01:22:08):
Mountain one.
Yes, I get geeked out thinkingabout both of them.

Kush (01:22:14):
Many people for their annual, uh, holiday weekend, go
to a cabin by the lake, youknow, and, uh, maybe go for a
hike, but you are going to dothis a hundred K year after
year.
That is certainly inspiring

Matt (01:22:29):
Yeah.

Kush (01:22:30):
couple of fun, final questions before we wrap it up,
any habits or routines in thelast say five years that have
had.
The most impact on your life.

Matt (01:22:45):
it's probably been longer than five years.
It's probably been 10 years orso, but I think, using a
calendar sounds so old school,but it's for me, it is
extraordinarily helpful.
the calendar I use is not theGoogle calendar or whatever is I
use training peaks.
It's a software where you planout your workouts.

(01:23:09):
So.
And you, you, you lay out your,your training plan over a
calendar.
And it's also the, the softwareplatform that's used for,
selling training plans as wellas, um, developing them and
executing them.
You know, when you complete theworkout, the box turns green.

(01:23:30):
And if you, if you complete theworkout, partially it turns
yellow.
If you don't do the workout, itturns red, you know, okay.
But.
I end up using thatTrainingPeaks software as my
calendar.
So, so like I put ourappointment today on my
TrainingPeaks calendar.
So essentially this meeting ispart of my training plan.

(01:23:53):
my doctor's appointments arepart of my training plan.
My commitments to go to mywife's concerts as a music
teacher, a part of my trainingplan.
And so training plan is reallyjust a different word for my

(01:24:14):
life schedule and it all becomesthis interconnected thing.
and I just happen to usetraining peaks as my calendar,
but it's, it helps me integrate,and align and prioritize all the
things that I want to include inmy life.

Kush (01:24:36):
It is love and the devotion to your sport, where
your default is not, let's sayyour regular calendar and the
training layered on it's theother way around, perhaps

Matt (01:24:49):
Yeah, it is.

Kush (01:24:50):
very

Matt (01:24:50):
So it's, It's.
it's, weird because at work, youknow, you're, beholden to your
Outlook calendar, you know, orwhether it or Google calendar,
whatever.
I'll have to bring up on anotherscreen.
I have to have my Training Peakscalendar because that's, that's,
you know.
That's the no kidding groundtruth calendar that runs my
life.

(01:25:11):
no, I don't put my workappointment, my work day
appointments, you know, on mytraining peaks calendar, but
when I need to know, will I bein town that day or is, you
know, am I taking that Fridayoff to travel, I consult my
training peaks calendar and thentrans that's again, that's the
ground truth.
And then transfer that onto mywork Outlook calendar to share

(01:25:34):
with, you know, my colleagues orwhatever.

Kush (01:25:37):
Does the calendar also integrate with, let's say your,
your training devices,

Matt (01:25:44):
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
As well as, um, Whoop, uh,Garmin, Whoop, Fitbit, all the,
you know, I stand on the Fitbitscale every morning and it beams
my weight up to the trainingpeaks.
Um, yeah, it's all thoseinterconnected Internet of

(01:26:04):
Things, are then captured andcataloged and archived and
researchable and studyable, youknow, in training.

Kush (01:26:16):
In some ways, I learnt so much in this conversation, but
in some ways, this might be likea top three, uh, knowledge
nugget, which is honestly like,fundamentally focus on what's
important and if this is indeedthat important, make sure that
that is the bottom layer overwhich other things should, uh,

(01:26:37):
stack up on and Matt, maybe justone final question.
Okay.
I don't know how you devour, uh,your inspiration if it's, uh,
from, from other sources, maybeyou see, see movies or you read
books, but is there any other,any, any good movie or a good
book that you, uh, consumedrecently that you would

(01:26:59):
recommend?

Matt (01:26:59):
when I have free time, let's, um, between coaching
sessions or like, you know, Ihad about a half an hour before
we got on today.
I find myself on YouTube.
Um, and of course, so YouTubehas its algorithms that present
to you with.
What it thinks you think areimportant in your life.
And so generally my YouTube, uh,feed is cycling stuff, uh, pro

(01:27:25):
football, maybe some watches,you know, these, these kind of
parts of, you know, mycuriosities, you know, um, uh,
so I do end up spending a lot oftime.
Uh, watching YouTube videos,which on cycling, which are half
research, half entertainment,half learning.

(01:27:48):
there's what I would turn peopleon to a few cycling podcasts
that I find especially valuableif, if, uh, if you, if you're
open to

Kush (01:27:58):
Sure.
Please mention them

Matt (01:27:59):
Okay.
So, uh, there's a, an endurancecyclist named Dylan Johnson who
does, uh, science based, uh,training and, uh, he's a
fascinating, uh, guy.
He grew up in the D.
C.
metro area and now lives in, inWestern North Carolina.
He's a really incredible, uh,mountain bike and gravel racer.

(01:28:24):
That has some really coolcontent.
I recommend his podcast.
Um, I'm a dedicated subscriberto that.
One that I've recently, uh,discovered in the only spoken, I
don't really don't have much ofa relationship, uh, with the
guy, but it, it, he, I find himinspiring is a podcast called

(01:28:45):
the stable cyclist.
S.
T.
A.
B.
L.
E.
And it is, the topic really is,uh, an intersection of mental
health and cycling.
I think for many of us,especially since COVID, we're
learning a lot about ourselvesand our mental health, that we

(01:29:06):
hadn't really explored before.
I think that's.
It's an area where we have a lotto learn and I think we have a
lot to, a lot to learn and thenadopt,

Kush (01:29:21):
Wonderful.
Yes.
Mental health is often not givenenough attention.
And talking of YouTube, uh, weare also launching a YouTube
channel adjacent to thispodcast.
So, uh, we'll hopefully havethis, uh, this delightful, uh,

(01:29:42):
conversation with you up onYouTube as well.
It's been wonderful to have youon the show.
Thank you for sharing so muchwith, us today.

Matt (01:29:52):
You're welcome.
I've really enjoyed it.
It's, I think, uh, I probablybenefited as, as much as, uh,
anybody else's and, anybodythat, gets something valuable
out of this, I'm glad I couldhelp you.

Kush (01:30:05):
Thank you so much for coming on.
Have a lovely, uh, evening.
What an incredibly inspiringchat with Matt Eggleston.
At 59 and not starting mountainbiking until his forties, Matt
embodies the ageless athlete.

(01:30:25):
Which is fired up energy and hisconsistency in sending it harder
than ever.
Throughout our talk.
Matt do from his militarydiscipline to drop wisdom on the
mindset, training and habits forachieving mastery lead real
life.
We tap into his knowledge andworkout regimens, habit,
stacking, and cultivating anappreciation for the outdoors.

(01:30:49):
With each heart, one ride.
I hope Matt ability to laugh inthe face of perceived
limitations.
Motivated you to get out thereand pursue your wildest dreams.
No matter your age or stage.
The greatest adventures await bytaking the first step.
Huge.
Thanks to Matt for theseinspirational truth bombs.

(01:31:12):
Let's chase our passions withthe same zest.
For living fully.
Finally, if you enjoyed thisepisode, I would so appreciate
if you would subscribe.
And.
I will continue to keepdelivering more incredible
stories of age to find ourathletes.
I'll do the next time.
My friends.

(01:31:33):
Get outside, stay adventurous.
State ageless.

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#18 Matt Eggleton - Ultra Endurance Mountain Biking Racing, the Power of Habit Stacking, Honoring Ones Gifts, and Safety First!

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#18 Matt Eggleton - Ultra Endurance Mountain Biking Racing, the Power of Habit Stacking, Honoring Ones Gifts, and Safety First!