#4 Tom Addison - Elite Grades, First Ascents, Games Within Climbing, and Endless Wit - Ageless Athlete - Stories and Secrets of Adventure Sports Icons

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kush (00:19):
Friends, welcome back to the Ageless Athlete Podcast.
This is your host, Kush from mybunker in the Mission District,
San Francisco.
Thank you for your fantasticresponse to the launch.
If you enjoy.
This show, please do rate usonline as it helps others find
the show.

(00:40):
Delighted today to have TomAddison from San Francisco on
the show.
Tom is 61 and under the radar,super achieving rock climber
with multiple credits to hisname.
Tom crushes on all types ofclimbing with a lifetime of pig
wall ascents as well as sportclimbing grades up to 514.

(01:03):
But Tom also gives back with aplomb.
He has opened up a monumentalnumber of first ascents across
the country for all of us toenjoy.
That's not all.
Tom has been tirelesslyadvocating for preservation of
public lands and for climbingaccess for decades.

(01:26):
In fact, if you have climbedanywhere in the San Francisco
area, chances are you havebenefited from Tom's
environmental efforts.
I'm eager to dive into thesejuicy stories with Tom and take
away some nuggets that we canapply to our own lives.
But of course, we'll talk aboutall the other regular stuff.

(01:48):
Training, progression, injuries,and how building community can
be so vital to one's goals.
Tom, hey! How are you?

Tom (02:07):
I'm well.
I went rock climbing yesterday,so life is good.

Kush (02:14):
Excellent.
Life is always good when one isable to Rock climb.
The last couple of times Ithink, or maybe the last time we
tried to connect over this, onceyou were in Turkey, another time
you were in South Africa.
So can I ask, where the climbingwas and where do we find you

(02:38):
today?

Tom (02:39):
Yesterday I was climbing locally.
I was climbing at a cliff calledJailhouse in the foothills near
Sonora.
And today I am home.
Various things to do today, butyeah, just climbing locally

(03:00):
yesterday.

Kush (03:02):
Excellent.
And if I remember correctly,this is indeed a jailhouse
season, though sometimes wehave.
The rainy weather that can, thatcan interrupt.

Tom (03:18):
Yeah, for sure.
Jail is nice in that it's got areal long season for a cliff and
the winter conditions can beexcellent depending on the route
you're trying to do.
Things can be wet.
Winter is good temperatures.

(03:38):
That's great.
Sometimes stuff is wet, butthat's always good to get
outside regardless if conditionsare perfect or not.

Kush (03:50):
It's been, it's been a few years since I've been out that
way and I understand you havebeen climbing there,
establishing roots there formany years.
Don't want to dwell on this toomuch, but what is the story Tom
behind?
This, the name of this, uh,local climbing area called, uh,

(04:10):
Jailhouse.

Tom (04:12):
Oh, well, there's a prison, the Jamestown Correctional
Facility.
It's a state prison, a mediumsecurity prison, and it's really
quite close to the cliff.
And so the guy who first startedclimbing there, a guy named Dave
Schultz, who super nice guy,probably well known for his

(04:36):
roots in Yosemite, doing a lotof.
Like wall linkups, speedlinkups, some pretty impressive
free climbing.
He just came up with thatmoniker just because it's,
there's a prison nearby.

Kush (04:55):
Got it.
And isn't that true that a lotof the names of the routes there
are named after prison likeexpressions?

Tom (05:03):
Oh yeah, no, that's definitely true.
I'd say that's, yeah, I'm notsure if that's a good thing.
People have different feelingsabout Correctional facilities,
and I think there's a lot ofproblems with our justice system
in this country, but yeah, mostof the names do are reflective

(05:23):
of that sort of prison theme.
That's for sure.

Kush (05:30):
My, I haven't spent a ton of time there, just a couple of
seasons, but one of the namesthat jumps to mind, a route that
I did, maybe.
14 odd years ago was called Soapon a Rope, and I did not
understand that, that name untilsome time had passed.

(05:54):
Maybe we'll spare the listeners.

Tom (05:57):
Yeah, I've always thought that was a pretty obnoxious
name, but yeah, but it's a cliffthat's got some climbing that's
close to the Bay Area.
For somebody like me, it's kindof a lifetime cliff because
they're are plenty of routesthere that are challenging for

(06:20):
me.
And so while I've climbed therea lot, I still have, uh, plenty
of things to do there.
And so that's nice to havesomeplace nearby where you can
push yourself and get out toreasonably easily.

(06:40):
Yeah.

Kush (06:42):
Fantastic.
Step, taking a step back, Tom,would love to hear a little bit
about how you got started intothe outdoors and.
And what pulled you into rockclimbing, particularly?

Tom (06:59):
Well, I certainly was enthusiastic about doing stuff
outside, probably starting injunior high school or something,
I guess, and did a lot ofbackpacking and canoeing and
kayaking and things like that,and knew that I wanted to try
climbing.

(07:20):
And so, when I went to college,I started climbing in 1980 and
there was an outing club programthere with people going climbing
and I was like, wow, this isreally fun.
This is super enjoyable andlearn to do things like rock

(07:43):
climbing and ice climbing andthat sort of set of activities.
Yeah, and I've kind of beendoing, I've been climbing a lot
really since 1980.
It's certainly been somethingI've really enjoyed and continue
to just love to do.

Kush (08:04):
Any early mentors or influences that may have shaped
your climbing?

Tom (08:13):
I was really impressed at the 80s when we were climbing at
an area in New York called theGunks to see a fellow named
Fritz Wiesner who was one of theleading climbers in the world
and probably the 40s and the50s, maybe this, yeah, probably
really the 40s and the 50s andwe would see him out and I think

(08:39):
at that point he was probably inhis 80s and he was soloing Uh,
Easy Roots at the Gunks, and Iwas super impressed by this
friendly, short little guy whowas out having a ton of fun, so
that's something that standsout.

(09:00):
I remember in 1982, watching aguy named John Backer, who I
would argue was the best climberin the world at the time,
watching his soloing routine atJosh and going out and seeing
what he would do in the morningbefore.

(09:20):
Most of us lackers that even hadbreakfast, let alone gotten out
of the tent.
So it's always impressive to seepeople who climb really well or
do anything really well with,with real grace.
And certainly John Backer was inthat category.

(09:42):
So I remember being veryimpressed with him, I think
first, probably in 1982.
And then, subsequently, for anumber of years as I got to know
him, yeah, maybe that's what I'dsay.

Kush (10:01):
Yeah, I can't imagine a few things more inspiring than
watching.
In the world of climbing, thenwatching John Backer at the peak
of his powers, and climbing insome of his favorite, well known
places.
I have a tiny memory of JohnBacker myself, which is sometime

(10:22):
in the mid 2000s, being out atBishop, bouldering at, I
believe, the Happys, on a verywindy day, when there were very
few people there.
And I Showed up with a couple offriends.
I mean the kind of day where thecrash pads were flying, as

(10:44):
you're trying to hold them down.
And there was this, this, thisguy, maybe on the other side of
this one boulder, and he simplyhad, he didn't have a crash pad,
he had a little, uh, I think atowel of sorts and he would set
the towel down meticulously andthen climb about the towel and

(11:07):
climb back down.
And I think he wasn't actuallydoing very hard grades, but
yeah, something about his flowseemed, uh, um, arresting the
way he moved.
And I did not know that at thetime, but I think maybe a couple
of days later I realized thatthat was indeed, uh, John
Bakker.
So yeah, I consider that.

(11:29):
as a lucky, uh, happenstancethat I got to see, uh, jump back
a climb.

Tom (11:33):
That man could rock climb.
That's for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's very strong.
Any

Kush (11:39):
of these.
Luminaries from those days thatyou actually had the occasion
to, to climb with.

Tom (11:53):
Oh, well, Kush, things used to be quite different in
climbing.
The world of people who wereactually climbing a lot was much
smaller.
And so we ended up all, you kneweveryone.
So yeah, I mean, I've, I've hadthe opportunity to, to climb

(12:19):
with John.
That's true for a lot of people.
I mean, I've, guys like JerryMoffat and Ben Moon and G.
Betribeau, I mean, and ToddSkinner.
I mean, these were all peoplewho you hung out with and saw
and climbed with.
So, the world used to be a lotsmaller in climbing, and so we

(12:42):
all kind of knew each other.
And, I think that it seems alittle different today, just
because there's so many morepeople climbing.
But one of the, the fun thingsabout climbing is that, We're
all playing on the same court,so you end up seeing everyone.

(13:04):
And that's, that certainlycontinues, I think, to be true
today, but yeah, I think anybodywho's my age, who's really old
and ancient like me, you end upseeing a lot of folks and
climbing with folks just becausethe world was smaller.

Kush (13:29):
Certainly how, what held today about the, about the
coziness, so to speak, of thecommunity A few days ago holds
true to, to, to some degreetoday as well.
And I think a lot of us, a lotof the climbing folks would

(13:52):
agree that is one of theirfavorite things besides the
actual sport where one can showup at a specific crag in season.
almost anywhere in the world andbe, uh, be greeted with a
friendly face from, uh, from adifferent place.

(14:13):
So, you know, you have to lovethat about a niche, maybe not so
niche anymore, but a smallersport and the places that
Climbing allows you to

Tom (14:28):
visit.
Yeah, I mean, certainly one ofthe best things about climbing
is the community and a sense ofshared community.
And it doesn't, the fact, Imean, it's irrelevant if the
people are well known or not,but the, it's a friendly,
inclusive, welcoming community,I think, generally.

(14:49):
And that really is true acrossthe world, wherever you end up
or find yourself.
And that's a wonderful thingabout the activity, I think.

Kush (15:02):
Dom, you've been climbing for several decades and climbing
quite prodigiously.
I also believe that you haveestablished many first ascents
all over the place.
Any particular area stand outwhere you've had the most fun
putting up routes and wonderingif you had a story or two to

(15:26):
share about any, anyparticularly memorable FAs?

Tom (15:33):
Oh, well, I do.
And I do enjoy.
Establishing routes really is, Iwould suggest that it's kind of
a, not a particularly usefulactivity if you want to improve
as a climber, but it's a lot offun.
I've established over 2, 000 newpitches in my life, I think in

(15:56):
19 different states.
Whoa! So I have routes kind ofall over the country and it's
always fun.
People I don't really know willtravel somewhere like a wild
iris or the city of rocks orcliffs in Massachusetts or New

(16:19):
Hampshire and reach out to meand say oh, hey, I did this
route of yours It was really funand that's better dating.
But yeah, I do enjoy doing newroutes.
I'm always psyched about newroutes I've got projects that
I'm working on now that I'msuper looking forward to When

(16:44):
the snow melts, trying to getback and climb, but I would say
in general doing new routes iskind of a silly thing.
It's not particularly good foryour climbing.
I think we would all be muchbetter climbers if you're
putting up routes, if you didn'tput up routes and climbed other

(17:05):
people's routes, but it's a fungame to play.
It's just another sort of gamewithin climbing that certainly I
enjoyed, enjoy and have enjoyedfor, yeah, for quite a long
time.

Kush (17:19):
I can imagine.
I mean, not just imagine, but Iknow that climbing being as all
absorbing and as time intensiveas is, one needs different
things to, to stay motivated andsometimes maybe pushing the, the
performance pyramid could be, isvalid and, but then sometimes

(17:42):
also to be able to, uh, seek outnew areas and possibilities for,
uh, for new routes is also partof the, part of the pallet.
There's tons

Tom (17:53):
of games.
Yeah, there's tons of differentgames to play in climbing and I
think a lot of them are reallyfun.
Um, and it is helpful to playmore than one game, um, that
keep you motivated and psyched,but generally being motivated
has never been my problem.
I, uh, I quite enjoy climbingand that's been a constant for

(18:20):
Yeah, for 40, 44 years orsomething now.
So that, that doesn't seem tochange, but it is fun to, uh, to
travel new places, to see newareas, to try different styles
of climbing.
All that stuff is reallyenjoyable, or it has been for
me.

Kush (18:40):
Along with doing first ascents in all kinds of places,
one thing that It goes hand inhand is making sure that the
land and the facilities thatallow us to go climb stay
available and accessible.
And we have also been quiteengaged with advocacy work with

(19:00):
the public lands and withclimbing coalitions.
One of the things that we hadthe pleasure of doing, actually
something you led recently, thatI had the The delight of joining
was we were helping build atrail to one of our local
climbing areas out in Sonora.

(19:22):
One thing I'm, I'm, I'mwondering is what is one thing
that climbers have done wellover the last few decades?
They have really kind of gottenthe act together with being able
to, able to secure access.

(19:44):
And one thing where we are stillstruggling and we could, we
could do better.
And I'll add one more questionto this and then give you time,
which is if one had to begin theclimbing.
Access movement today, and thereare people listening to this

(20:05):
from other parts of the worldwhere the access movement isn't
as mature as it is in the U.
S.
Maybe what could be one piece ofadvice you would give them that,
hey, let's say you are in Indiafor that matter, and you were to
begin some advocacy work to, tohelp, I mean, how would you go
about and what would be theright thing to

Tom (20:24):
do?
Ooh, that's, I'm not sure I'm Soqualified to say, but I do think
the strength of the climbingcommunity is that it's a shared
community.
And so I think we're at our bestwhen we come together
collectively to try to protectthe areas that we all love and

(20:49):
that we recreate.
And I think we're at our worstwhen we Let divisions within the
tribe of climbers come to thefloor.
There are some real challengesthat we face as climbers at

(21:10):
being able to keep using, uh,the places that we do.
Look currently at the situationwith this proposed, the fixed
anchor regulations.
If you're not familiar withthat, I'd encourage everybody
who's listening to go to theaccessfund.
org homepage and to weigh in onthat.

Kush (21:35):
We'll post something in the show notes, so people can
get more educated on what'shappening.
Very important, I would agree.

Tom (21:46):
But I always think that as a community, we're at our best
when we remember that we haveshared interests in common.
And, uh, when we Go astray iswhere we tend to forget that.
And we squabble internally aboutthe style of climbing, how the

(22:07):
bolts were placed, when peopledo things like alter the rock,
all the sorts of things thathave the potential to hurt
ourselves.
And our reputation as climberswith folks like land managers.
So, how do you get stuff likethe Access Fund, or the ASCA,

(22:33):
sort of going and organized?
Usually it comes down tomotivated people, but what you
need is you need buy in from thecommunity and support from the
community.
I certainly hope that if you'rea climber, you realize that
there are folks out thereworking on your behalf.
These are wonderfulorganizations.

(22:54):
Man, I encourage us all to bepart of, of those organizations,
but also to think about in yourown life and at your own cliff.
What could we do to improvethings?
What could we do to improve ourcollective experience to make
sure that people 20 years or 100years from now will be able to

(23:15):
climb these same crags that weget to enjoy and just, just
essentially be responsiblemembers of our shared climbing
tribe?

Kush (23:29):
One thing that I sometimes wonder, uh, is, uh, within the,
within us climbers, we holdthese, these styles of climbing
in high reverence.
Certain types of climbs, let'ssay sport climbing, they require
many balls.

(23:49):
But traditional climbing mayrequire a couple, but maybe no
balls.
And I think within us, for us,these things become very
important because We live theserealities and go climbing, but
sometimes when we communicatethese to the outside, to people
we are negotiating with, I feelwe don't abstract out these

(24:12):
nuances enough, where to theoutside person, a person, a
climb is just a climb, and abolt is just a bolt, and maybe,
maybe we need to find like aunified voice which can
communicate it.

(24:33):
these issues in a more, in asimpler language.
I mean, another thing that Ifind sometimes amusing is how we
get caught up on, on style andwhat's, what's, what's, what's
free climbing and what's freesoloing and what's like aided
climbing.
And I just feel like whoevercame up with these names,

(24:56):
whenever they did, they shouldhave maybe just come up with
simpler names.
Maybe one name could be.
Just regular climbing, which therest of us do.
And one could be a free soloing,which some, some small niche of
people engage in.
And I think there's a need forlike, maybe, I think the need to

(25:19):
simplify and avoid jargon, likecommunicating.
Yeah,

Tom (25:26):
I mean, I think often as climbers, we tend to fixate on
details that are maybe not assignificant or even important to
folks outside our community.
I mean, one of the ways that we.
Historically have gotten introuble is when there is a
schism within the climbingcommunity and rather than solve

(25:50):
that issue internally and talkto each other and have a
dialogue and come to someresolution internally is when we
go outside to external landmanagers and say, Oh, my little
brother hit me, mom.
That usually doesn't solve theproblem, doesn't solve it well.

(26:13):
And there are a lot of examples,for example, locally, the
Pinnacles.
There was a guy who was doingroots in a style that was not
appreciated by some of thelocals.
And actually, both of these twopeople are now dead.

(26:34):
But a sort of strong traditionalvoice in climbing, a guy named
Tom Higgins, who I knew boththrough climbing, but also
professionally.
Rather than address the issueinternally, he's We went to the
land manager, in this case, thefederal land manager at

(26:55):
Pinnacles, and the result, Ithink, did not help us as a
climbing community at all,because their response is that
they don't care about thedistinctions of style, which
they see as trivial.
They're the sort of easyresponse for land managers to
just close an area, or to justprohibit certain kinds of

(27:16):
climbing, like say somethinglike no bolts, regardless of how
the bolts are placed, or notplaced.
And so I think it's always bestand smartest if we can, as a
community, try to resolve ourissues internally rather than
asking somebody else toadjudicate differences for us.

(27:36):
And time again, whether it'ssomeplace like Pinnacles 25
years ago, or whether it'ssomeplace like Tensleep Canyon
much more recently, just a fewyears ago, it's usually best if
we can communicate internally,talk to each other, essentially

(27:58):
just be Neuro civilized humanadults and come to some
resolution internally ratherthan going outside the climbing
community.

Kush (28:11):
Absolutely, Tom, absolutely.
We need to be, yeah, we need tounite before we, or at least we
should not be.
Washing our dirty laundry infront of land managers.
I do want to acknowledge andthank you, Tom.
Thank you for the amazing workthat you've done that at least I

(28:33):
have personally benefited fromand other people in San
Francisco, which is a jailhousefor one, which is the first time
I started hearing about the workthat you have done to ease
access and then other areas inSonora.
So thank you for your continued.
Continued support there andyeah, please continue engaging

(28:58):
some of the rest of us who arenot quite as Alert and
prodigious as you are.
So thank you for doing that.
Oh, that's very kind.
I wanted to, uh, absolutely.
Thank you.
You have climbed, you've beenclimbing Dom and been doing
first ascents over the lastseveral decades.

(29:19):
And I think you are far toohumble to likely say this
yourself, but you've also beenclimbing at a fairly high level.
Even in light of today's higherstandards of performance, I
believe you, uh, you still climbinto 514s and which is a lofty

(29:43):
grade in the, I would say elitegrade in, in, in sport climbing.
And then also are able to OnSiteand Redpoint, also high levels.
I would love to actually hearabout maybe a couple of Recent
climbs or recent ascents thatyou might be a bit proud of to,

(30:07):
to, to kick this off.

Tom (30:09):
Well, I guess I'd say that people today are pretty darn
strong and I'm really not sostrong, but I tend to be
persistent.
I mean, my projects, my kidstoday warm up on.
So, yeah, I do think thatpersistence really can get, help

(30:32):
you get a lot done.
What am I psyched about?
I'm really psyched on somethingthat I've got bolted on the
granite in the Sierra right now.
It's, it's a one pitch boltedsport route.
It's kind of kicking my butt.
15 bolts long.

(30:53):
Probably, it's probably not 14a.
It's probably not 13c.
It's probably like 13d or 8b.
really psyched to get back onthat when the snow melts.
But yeah, I mean, it's fun tohave goals.

(31:14):
It's fun, always fun to try topush yourself.
I don't really think it matterswhat that level is, as long as
like you're pushing yourself.
Like that's really, it's kind ofthe same, whether it's, you
know, you're trying to, uh, onsite 13a or trying to on site
like 11c it's really pretty muchthe same thing and you get the

(31:35):
same satisfaction out of it butit is it's certainly fun to try
to push yourself at least it'sbeen I quite enjoy that.
All climbing is fun, really.
It doesn't, regardless of thedifficulty level, it can be
super fun just to go out andhave mellow cruiser days.

(31:59):
Do some volume, do some mileage,do some volume.
And it's also super fun to tryto push yourself to break into a
new grade.
I'm trying to do that here in myold age.
Will I be successful?
Probably not.
But you know, I'm still tryingto climb harder than I have

(32:19):
before.
Stuff like that will keep youentertained for quite a while.
Tend to keep you out of troublegenerally.
Or maybe that's getting intotrouble.
I'm not quite sure what thedifference is.

Kush (32:32):
Uh, for sure.
I think, uh, I mean, as humans,we are, uh, conditioned to, to
seek progress and seekimprovement, whatever our chosen
discipline might be.
And yes, I also love this abouttiming that one is usually only

(32:56):
competing with, with oneselfunless it's actually a
competition or you're trying toget ahead of your, ahead of your
friend at the cliff.
The numbers just help usquantify progress.
Otherwise, sometimes it's hardto know if one has actually
gotten better or, for sure, orone just thinks, uh, one just,
one just believes so withouthaving data to stand behind it.

(33:21):
Given that you have been.
Improving over, over the lastfew decades, and I'm speaking,
maybe I'm speaking on yourbehalf, I'm guessing, yes,
you're still pushing thresholds,you still get trying to be a
better climber than you wereyesterday.
How do you, how are you able tosustain this kind of progress?

(33:46):
And maybe a bit of a bluntquestion here, but are there
some things Tom that you foundthat you are doing or have done
where let's say Your peers orpeople that you used to climb
with are not able to catch on toand maybe they either dropped
out of the sport or at leastdon't pursue the sport with that

(34:10):
kind of passion, so to speak.
So maybe a couple of things thatyou feel have allowed you to
continue performing well.

Tom (34:23):
Well, I think it helps to be persistent for sure.
Showing up is, is kind of.
You're not going to send if youdon't go to the cliff.
You're not going to clip thechains if you don't get on the
route.
I mean, in general, certainlythe vast majority of people who

(34:44):
I started climbing with back in1980, most of those folks don't
climb today.
It takes a real, sort of, amountof time and effort to keep
pushing, to keep going to thegym, to keep trying to To

(35:05):
improve, and I think if youdon't enjoy that process, it's
hard to keep pushing.
I think I'm lucky, in some waysI'm very simple minded.
Like, going to the climbing gymis fun for me.
Um, trying to improve mypathetically weak fingers, like,

(35:26):
I enjoy that.
And so I think that helps a lot,if you enjoy what you're doing.
And I think the key to enjoyingit is really who you're climbing
with, who you're spending timewith.
Are you spending time withquality people who you really
enjoy being at the cliff with ortraveling to all these countries

(35:48):
around the world with?
Are you around people who arealso pushing themselves?
Or are you hanging out withfolks who really want to go home
and watch the latest episode ofthe?
Netflix drama that they'rewatching or whatever, but I

(36:12):
think a lot of it, maybe I'mjust simple minded.
I don't, it's really fun to goclimbing and to train and to try
to get better.
And so it's not, it takes time.
I don't want to minimize like tokeep showing up and go to the

(36:37):
gym when you've got like allsorts of other obligations,
family obligations.
Parental obligations, workobligations, but yeah, let's say
there's a lot worse vices tohave I'd say yeah

Kush (36:58):
Certainly and I agree that showing up and doing the work
and some days one is Verymotivated some days or maybe
some seasons and then some dayswhen it's feels like a drag I
find that at least for me whatyou said about Keeping the right
company goes a long way whereyeah, even if somebody even

(37:24):
those days or those weeks orwhatever where either I am For
whatever reason I'm not at mybest maybe psychologically or
physiologically being in thecompany of of good friends
Usually gets me out, and a goodmetaphor there, yes, with good

(37:47):
friends one can usually go anddo just about anything, and
going climbing even at the gymfeels more satisfying than let's
say going to a neighborhoodwatering hole and having a
drink.
So, I think those two things,uh.
Uh, certainly true.

(38:08):
Any other, let's say, thingsthat have allowed you to
succeed?
So to illustrate, like, I, Ifound myself getting
increasingly more injured.
So, so these days I am on thebench because of Stupid shoulder

(38:29):
injury.
Have you had any, let's say anysort of any physical debilities
or any other kind of failuresthrough your climbing career
that you've had to really putthe work into, into overcoming?

Tom (38:45):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, for sure.
I think if you climb for anylength of time, I, you'll have
major injuries.
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
I mean, I've, oh, I think 21years ago.
I was really close to sending aroute that it was a new route.

(39:06):
I hadn't climbed that gradebefore.
It was quite hard for me.
And I fell trying to put therope in the anchor.
Well, the next day going to playsoccer, I got my soccer cleats
stuck in the front spoke of mybike, hammered my shoulder.
It took me multiple years toactually get healthy enough to

(39:30):
do that route.
I tore apart my left wrist.
And in sort of ways that arekind of mysterious, just pulling
on a hole toward the mainligament that holds everything
together.
Four hand surgeons told me I'dnever climb again.
And I had some experimentalreconstructive surgery, and now

(39:57):
I've got a wrist with all sortsof metal hardware in it.
What, maybe 14 months ago orthereabouts, I had an injury in
my other wrist.
I just had surgery in March.

(40:17):
The hand surgeon wasn't clear ifI'd be able to come back.
Sort of from that, I've stillgot, one of my hands is always
now discolored compared to theother.
It's a little bit swollen, andsome of the fingers are slightly
numb.
So I think if you climb a lot,you'll always have injuries.
The question is, will you try torehab yourself?

(40:41):
Will you spend the time to comeback from the, um, find clever
people to help you?
Whether that's surgeons orphysical therapists or some sort
of alternative?
Practitioners.
It's always harder when you takea bunch of time off, like a year

(41:02):
or multiple years.
There was one point that I builtthe house that we live in, and
because I'm cheap and I'm hiringsomebody to build the house
really wasn't an option.
And I didn't climb outside forthree years.

(41:24):
If you're motivated and you'repsyched, like you can come back
from, I think, a heck of a lotof things.
I mean, I've been pretty lucky.
I've had some injuries thatcertainly medical people thought
would be the ending of aclimbing career, but I've been
able to, uh, and so you end uptrying to climb around some of

(41:51):
your injuries, and maybe thereare things that I can't do.
I think these days I need a kneereplacement.
So like, really big drop knees,for example, and one of my knees
are probably not such an optionor the smartest thing, but the
beauty of climbing is that it's,There's so many, sort of so many

(42:12):
facets performing well that youcan be lagging in some areas and
still try to compensate withsome other sort of things that
contribute to your overallclimbing performance.

(42:32):
I think we're all, everybody,everybody's unique.
Everybody's got their strengthand their limitations.
The key is trying to take whatyou've got and maximize.
your potential.
And generally, I always thinkthat our potential is typically
much higher than we think thatit is, or that we realize that
it can be.

Kush (42:55):
Yes, yes, yes.
I think humans are infinitelycapable.
And I mean, that's really whatthis show is about that I'm
trying to.
Trying to uncover any kind ofcross training that you do, Tom,
are you active and pursue anyother kind of sports to just

(43:19):
kind of balance balance out?
Oh, well, I

Tom (43:23):
certainly played soccer for most of my adult life.
I'm in my 60s now.
I, I was having knee issues.
Probably it was in my 40s, Iguess, and several orthopedists
told me I had to stopimmediately.
I needed knee replacement then,and I still haven't had it.

(43:46):
So, don't play soccer anymore, Idon't run anymore, and those
were things that I did.
multiple times a week.
I'm allowed to ride a bike.
That's not bad for my knees.
So I definitely ride a bike alot.
Um, I can't run.
I'm allowed to walk.
So I'll go on long walks, but ifI can't make it to the, get some

(44:14):
sort of exercise in and it's theend of the day, I'll even go
like walk on a treadmill, but Icertainly lift.
Um, do a bunch of strengthtraining and strength training
for climbing, but I do, I dolike to ride a bike.
I find that quite enjoyable.
Frankly, I actually preferredplanks, not running, but riding

(44:34):
a bike is fun.
I definitely ride a bike now andride a bike probably what people
would consider a fair bit.

Kush (44:42):
Don't hate me for, for not loving bicycling as much.
I like climbing more, but I findbiking to be an enjoyable, low
impact activity.
That I can also do out of thehouse, out of the door and back
with less time than it wouldtake to just get to the climbing

(45:05):
area.
Uh, while you were climbing somuch and climbing in different
places, what kind of career didyou have and did you have to
make any kind of compromiseswith the work that you did to be
able to again, again, fullypartake in a high maintenance

(45:27):
sport that is climbing?

Tom (45:30):
So, I've spent, I've spent all my sort of professional
career doing environmental work.
I worked for the U.
S.
Environmental Protection Agency,out of college, worked in New
England, moved back toCalifornia, went to grad school
out here, and worked for theEPA.

(45:50):
But for my, primarily I workedon air quality issues.
I lobbied for clean air at thestate capitol in Sacramento for
Close to 30 years and I lovethat job.
It was a lot of fun.
I still miss it.
I retired from that job, but itwas a pretty busy job.

(46:15):
There were weeks where you'dwork 80 hours a week, 100 hours
a week.
And so.
It was hard to really focus asmuch time on climbing as I might
have wanted if I had more timeto goof off.
But it was also a really fun jobthat I quite enjoyed, so I don't

(46:36):
really, that wasn't a bad thingat all.
These days, I'm essentiallyretired, but I do have a number
of side hustles.
I've got about four differentsort of jobs that I do these
days, but I certainly can climbmore.

(46:58):
Since I left that professionalday job, now I'm working, but
I'm working for myself.
And so I'm really free to be ascallywag.
And if I want to go climbing,I'll try to go climbing.
But I think everybody hasobligations in life, whether

(47:21):
they're working outside thehome, inside the home, that's
the nature of being, being ahuman.
I've always thought that it wassuper helpful to have a busy
professional career.
I love climbing so much.
If I just climbed full time andI have a bunch of friends.

(47:42):
Who were able to do that, butI've always thought that if I
just climbed full time it wouldtend to lose a little bit of its
magic for me.
I love ice cream.
When I was younger, we'd do awall in the valley and we'd come
down and we would always, firstthing we'd do is we'd go eat a

(48:04):
half gallon each of, uh, yourfavorite ice cream flavor after
you've done a wall because youtend to be pretty hungry.
Quite a while, but if I ate icecream a half gallon, like every
day.
Mm-Hmm.
I don't think that'd probably bethe best thing for me.
I'd probably get a little tiredof it.
Mm-Hmm.
So I've actually always thoughtthat it's really helpful to have

(48:27):
a balance in your personal lifeof sort of your passions, your
and your professional wise.
And I think I, there's a lot offolks who really, I think, just
want to climb or they thinkthat's a road to happiness or
contentment.

(48:48):
And for some, people are verydifferent.
For some people, I think it canbe, but I've also seen a lot of
friends that end up leaving thesport who have just been doing
that sport.
And I don't think that'suniversal with climbing.
I think that's true of You know,a lot of things in life, but

(49:13):
everybody's different andeverybody's got to find a good
path for themselves.
And there are many paths to theBuddha.
I'm not sure that we're allgoing to be walking the same
path together, but if people arethoughtful and thinking about
their climbing and itsrelationship to other things in
their life, I think that's agood place to start.

Kush (49:38):
Certainly.
And from a distance, I havecertainly observed the little
that I know about your endeavorsoutside of climbing.
Uh, you do engage in, in someinteresting activities and, and
talking to food.
I know that you are, uh,somewhat of a, I don't know what

(50:01):
the right expression is, but

Tom (50:05):
I think the word you're searching for is fruit geek,
maybe a fruit geek.
Fruit geek.
Yes.

Kush (50:12):
I was using the word fruit lobbyist.
Because I think you're more thanjust a fruit nerd, I think you
are espousing the cause of fruittrees and eating fruits.
So one is like, two things, oneis, I was going to ask you about
your diet a little bit.
Are you a fruitarian?

Tom (50:32):
Oh Lord.
No, I'm

Kush (50:33):
omnivorous.
You talked about eating icecream.
So I don't know if you still eatice cream.
Oh, I'm omnivorous

Tom (50:41):
in my diet.
Yeah, I think we'd be missingsome pretty key macronutrients
if we were just eating fruit,but I do enjoy growing strange
fruit.
I've got a little businessfarming, selling strange fruits,
doing consultation,horticultural consultation.

(51:03):
And advice for folks in my diet.
I'm really quite omnivorous, Ithink, and I try to eat.
What most people would considera healthy diet, but I don't, I'm
definitely not somebody whostresses a lot about diet and

(51:29):
worries about the specifics orthe details of diet.
I'm not somebody who's takesupplements or has gone down
unusual.
sort of rabbit holes arounddiet, but I, I think I'm
probably pretty lucky.
I can eat a lot of healthy foodand enjoy it.

(51:55):
And I don't have to beparticularly regulating of what
I eat.
So I, I consider myself luckythat way, I think.

Kush (52:08):
On the subject of fruit, Geekery, completely random.
I have a friend.
from another community who's,who's a fairly outspoken vegan.
She does some activism and Ithink she.
also has a couple of fruittrees.

(52:28):
So randomly we talked aboutgrowing fruit and somehow I
remembered your name and Imentioned your name and again
she doesn't climb at all, butshe had heard of you.
So who knows, maybe at somepoint you had helped grow her a
fruit garden.
Back to the question of diet,for the most part I would agree

(52:50):
that as long as one practicesGenerally healthy eating habits
and lives an active lifestyle,so manages the calorie intake
and calorie burn.
One is able to manage well.
I find that in my case, there'scertain types of foods that I

(53:14):
don't have as much of anappetite for.
So for example, I just don'tlike eating very greasy foods.
Once in a while seems great.
Otherwise, I just don't likeheavy meals, heavy very sugary
desserts as much as I did.
Any kind of sort of activemodifications you have made to

(53:34):
your diet, like to avoid certainthings, you mentioned you don't
take any supplements.
Is that no supplements?
I guess

Tom (53:41):
that's actually a little bit of a lie because I recently
started taking D3D.
But, yeah, I really might try toget my nutrition from eating a
balanced diet, whole foods.

(54:02):
Um, but I am not somebody whoavoids desserts.
Um, I will say that I thinkprobably most of my life, I was
probably somewhat proteindeficient, probably.
And so I try to certainly formaybe the last five years

(54:24):
consume more protein than I didhistorically.
But I really think there's a lotof different folks of different
dietary needs and restrictionsand I think it's important to
think about our diet in terms ofsort of societal consequences,

(54:47):
but I am really very omnivorousand much less diet focused than
a lot of people are.
Yeah, that's what I'd say.
Sure.
And

Kush (55:04):
yeah, it sounds like it works well for you, given that a
lot of us, as we get older, wehave to make conscious changes
to a diet and maybe add, removefoods, add supplements, do you
think, what do you attribute,let's say, some of your success

(55:27):
with, with your diet or beingable to continue with maybe a
more laissez faire approach toyour diet and also actually
extending that to even yourtraining and your physical
abilities, do you think they'rechoices you made early in your

(55:48):
life perhaps that have allowedyou to Continue, uh, evolving
the way you have.
Do you think there was some,some genetic help there?
Was there like sports in yourfamily that maybe some of that
might have transferred over to?

Tom (56:06):
Yeah, no, that's an interesting question.
I think genetically, I'mactually quite bad at climbing.
I had no natural aptitude as aclimber, and I don't think I'm
particularly genetically suitedto being a climber.
I think I'm very much a slowtwitch athlete, not a fast

(56:29):
twitch athlete.
I can go ride my bike, uh, ahundred miles, like off the
couch.
And that's not so hard, but I'mnaturally a slow sprinter.
I have very weak fingers.

(56:50):
For my climbing, the people Iclimb with, everybody has
stronger fingers than me.
I did some lattice assessment.
Lattice said that my max gradeshould be 11C.
I do climb harder than that.
So I don't think I'm well suitedto being a climber genetically,

(57:12):
particularly.
I've got minus three ape index,but.
I think I've got one thing thatreally helps.
I can beat my head against thewall pretty well, and I really
loves exercising and workingout.
And so I end up riding my bikemore miles in a week or getting

(57:37):
more exercise in a week thanlike, probably.
I'm very much towards one end ofthe spectrum that way.
And so that sort of lets me bemaybe a little more casual about
what I eat.
Um, and I also think I'm luckyin that I'm not somebody who

(57:59):
gains, I'm not, my weightdoesn't really fluctuate.
My weight's kind of just beenthe same for, Since I stopped
growing, but I, yeah, I'm luckyin that I really enjoy exercise

(58:19):
in the sports that I do.
I get a lot of joy out of thosethings that I, I think that's a
good thing for being able tokeep enjoying them.
And then also to keep pushingyourself.
I think injury is the sort ofbiggest issue with trying to

(58:40):
push yourself in any sport asyou age.
I have not been lucky that way.
I mean, I've had multipleinjuries that really various
medical folks say I shouldn't beclimbing at this point.
I shouldn't be capable ofclimbing at this point, but I'm
always super motivated to keepon climbing, and so I've somehow

(59:06):
found a way to keep it, to keepdoing that, and I'll try to do
that for the rest of my life.
I'm certainly past the stagewhere I should be able to be
allowing to be climbing hardergrades at this point in my life,
but I'm Weirdly that hasn't thathasn't really been the case.

(59:31):
I mean at 57 I climbed 514,which I'd never done before in
my life again at 59 A lot of itis just motivation really.
So I, yeah, well, I don't, it'shard for me to say, but I feel
very fortunate in that I've beenable to have found this

(59:55):
wonderful activity and to keepplaying it.
Um, you know, well past the agewhen we're supposed to stop
playing games and start beingserious.

Kush (01:00:08):
Tom, how old are you now?
I'm

Tom (01:00:09):
60.
I was born in 62.
I am 61.
I think that's right.
Sure.

Kush (01:00:18):
So you just passed.
You just crossed 60.
And your Hardest Ascent camefour years ago, which honestly
is mad inspiring.
And it makes me think of acouple of things.
And maybe I'm oversimplifying alittle bit, which is, one is

(01:00:38):
focus goes a long way.
I think you said that in, indifferent words.
Second, perhaps you cannot rusha good thing where I've seen
this maybe with a couple ofpeople where they.
peaked early, maybe again interms of performance grades, and

(01:00:59):
somehow they lost the fire to,to climb as much because they
felt they had achieved theirhardest.
And, uh, I think that if oneenjoys the process and enjoys
climbing at every grade, And allthese myriad activities around
climbing, which is sometimesbeyond the climbing itself,

(01:01:21):
which is doing some things suchas doing first ascents and all
the adventure and labor thatbrings doing advocacy work and
the actual climbing then somehowwithin the broad experience of
climbing, it actually balancesthe climbing also because
there's so many things to getjoy from.
And then the other thing youmentioned about developing or

(01:01:44):
finding oneself in a lifestylethat incorporates movement.
That also hits home with mebecause I sometimes get asked
these questions.
Hey, how does, What's yourfitness routine or what is your
how do you eat?

(01:02:05):
And my answers are often similarwhich is Find things to do which
are fun for you where the thehealth benefits on are almost
Incidental.
Oh, that's key.
Yes.
You start having once you starthaving fun with those things
then you're gonna be motivatedto to go out and bike or run or

(01:02:28):
dance or what have you and Youwill build that into your system
where you won't have to go outof your comfort zone to
exercise.

Tom (01:02:40):
I think that's exactly right.
Yeah.
I mean, you want to derive joyfrom the things that you do.
Life is short, so don't spend iton things that you don't love
doing.
And that's certainly true of.
Things that have completelyancillary health benefits.
Yeah.
Do stuff you love.

(01:03:03):
Yeah, for sure.

Kush (01:03:03):
Awesome.
Yeah.
Taking a slight pivot here.
what is one habit that you have?
I mean, you have all these goodhabits, right?
But, you know, I'm sure, maybeyou're perfect, but maybe you're
not perfect.
So what is one habit that youhave that you would like, uh, to

(01:03:25):
break out of?
And then perhaps one habit whichyou are kind of proud of that
you would pass on to, uh, toothers.
I would

Tom (01:03:35):
say one habit is I have bad puns.
I'm not sure if I want to breakout of that or not, but I
probably have fewer habits thanAnand does.
Um, Let's think, uh, moreseriously, um, in terms of like

(01:03:55):
climbing habits, um, it's alwaysgood to keep mixing it up.
I think it might, there's suchgreat training information
available today.
I think that's one of the keysto being able to keep improving
over time.
There's so much more good infotoday that we have than we used
to have.

(01:04:16):
And that really does make a hugedifference if you pay attention
to it.
I think I tend to, in my sort ofclimbing for training routines,
tend to get a little Stuck inthe same things and do the same
things too long, rather thanswitching up routines after you

(01:04:37):
start, after you've seen themajor benefits, it's easy to try
to get the incremental, likehalf of 1 percent on as the
improvement curve flattens out,and it's smarter to move to some
of the other curves where you'remuch lower down and could see

(01:04:58):
more improvement.
I think one good habit that I'vegot is, is showing up, you know,
I'm going to try to keep showingup as long as I can, whether
that's at the gym for a fingersession, trying to address my
sort of notoriously weakfingers, or whether that's

(01:05:19):
showing up at the club, orwhether that's trying to show up
on climbing community causesthat I care about.
So I don't know, maybe that's, Idon't know.
Hopefully that's some sort of ananswer.
I'm not always this thoughtful.
Yeah,

Kush (01:05:39):
no, I think, totally.
I mean, can't, can't highlightthe importance of showing up.
Is any new behavior though,let's say in the last five
years, that has had the mostimpact on your life?

Tom (01:05:59):
In terms of my climbing life, I'd say like the boards
are super useful, whether it's akilter, a tension, a moon.
Our local touchstone board, Ithink that being able to climb
and train on the boards I thinkhas been hugely beneficial for
me.

(01:06:22):
It's fun, it directly addressessome of my sort of limitations
in climbing, some of myweaknesses.
But just in general, this sortof better information about
training has been really helpfulfor me in the last five years
that I think I've significantlyimproved my training game in

(01:06:45):
that time.
All of these podcasts, all ofthese clever people who are
putting out helpful informationthat the rest of us can benefit
from.
Maybe that's something I wouldsay that most of my climbing
life, since we started, I mean,of course, I'm old enough that I
learned to climb before climbinggyms.

(01:07:09):
That's an understatement.
Well, well before, um, but thenonce climbing gyms happened.
I would go to the gym regularly,less with training in mind and
more with just having fun withfriends.
And I still do that.
That's actually really enjoyableto do, but I used to climb a lot

(01:07:31):
more on plastic on a rope.
And it really, probably in thelast five years, I've almost
entirely stopped doing that asit doesn't really help my sort
of goals of improving.
I do it.
Socially for fun to do stuffwith friends, but certainly from

(01:07:51):
a climbing improvementperspective for me personally
Tends to be somebody whosefingers are always the weak link
I boulder like your grandmotherbasically and so spending time
bouldering on Plastic especiallyon the boards is quite

(01:08:12):
beneficial to me That'ssomething in the last five years
that's changed.

Kush (01:08:19):
Yeah, certainly.
Do you happen to have a set upat your house?
Or do you still go to acommercial gym?
Touchstone has

Tom (01:08:27):
always been very kind to me.
I think they're a wonderfulcompany, and I enjoy using
Touchstone facilities.
I mean, I've got a, I've got ahangboard at home.
I've got the ability to do somefinger training at home.
In the pandemic, we built anadjustable angle room board at a

(01:08:49):
friend's house, but that boardis no more.
And so it's relatively easy forme to get to, to a touchstone
facility.
There's a lot, there's quite afew reasonably close by.
And so mostly I do train at acommercial climbing gym, whether

(01:09:14):
that's weights or fingertraining or, or just climbing,
except climbing outside, I climba ton outside.

Kush (01:09:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that.
That makes sense.
And I think maybe just in termsof variety, because you're able
to get outside and climb off andon, on the rope, climb roots,
maybe that helps you also stayengaged and get benefits from
the other end of the spectrum byclimbing shorter, harder types

(01:09:44):
of boulder problems on a systemboard.
I found a lot of benefit to thatmyself.
I'm currently, I guess I'mcurrently injured.
Actually, I've been told that I.
I may never climb again with myshoulder.
I'm really trying to prove thedoctor's wrong.
Absolutely.

(01:10:05):
So once, yeah, once I get motionand strength back with all this
ridiculous rehab they're makingme do, I hope to not just get
back to climbing, but hopefullyget back to some of the
training.
We are nearing the end of aconversation.
Maybe just a couple of funquestions.

(01:10:26):
What is perhaps, uh, a gift thatyou have received that, uh, you
are the most thankful of?
Oh, has benefited you the mostand maybe what's one gift that
you might've given others.
Again, maybe in the last coupleof years, few years.

Tom (01:10:44):
Gosh, here is something entertaining.
I've got something called a grimreacher.
It's basically, uh, a littleextendable stick clip, uh, but
it's super lightweight.
weight, you can take it on rootsand it can let you top rope

(01:11:10):
stuff rather than keep.
Falling off and actuallydiscover what that hold is that
you're going for.
And so that's something that I'mthink I'm probably gonna produce
in volume for folks.
But a buddy of mine who I'vebeen, who I taught the climb in

(01:11:30):
1981, we were going back andforth on different designs.
He had a nice little finaltouch, so I'm quite
appreciative.
of that little device, the GrimReacher, but mostly I'm just
thankful that I'm able at thispoint in my life to still get

(01:11:51):
outside and to still enjoyclimbing.
I feel super fortunate that wayand yeah, really very lucky and
also in a place in my life whereI'm not working two jobs at the
same like crazy hours or stuffjust to just survive these days.

(01:12:15):
I'm able to, to have the time toget outside.
That's, that's, I'm incrediblylucky and fortunate that way.
I went climbing yesterday.
Yesterday was a work day.

Kush (01:12:31):
What about something else that engages you in your
personal life when it comes toleisure or learning or
entertainment?
Are you, do you read books, Tom?
Do you?
Do you watch, watch movies,shows?
Oh, I'm pretty

Tom (01:12:50):
bad about watching shows and movies.
I watch almost no television orsort of shows like that, really.
Many months I don't watchanything like that, but I read a
lot.
I always have a lot of fiction.

(01:13:12):
I read a fair bit of non fictionand I enjoy the heck out of
that.
I always have a book that I'msuper enthusiastic about.
I'm sad right now because I'mfinishing.
Abraham Verghese's latest novel,The Covenant of Water, and I'm
getting towards the end of that.

(01:13:32):
It was such a delightful bookwhen that's over, but that's
always the case.
Kind of.
I'm always pretty enthusiasticabout whatever I'm reading.

Kush (01:13:45):
Whenever I speak with, with environmentalists or tree
lovers.
One book that I always like totalk about is Overstory.
I wonder if you, uh, if you

Tom (01:13:57):
enjoyed that book.
I did.
I quite enjoyed it.
Yeah.
I mean, I think a lot aboutplants and trees because of, I
got this whole weird sort ofother life separate than
climbing that sort of reallynever overlaps around trees and
plants and things.
But yeah, I, I thought that wasquite a good book and I

(01:14:20):
certainly enjoyed it.
Yeah, absolutely.

Kush (01:14:23):
Excellent, Tom.
Tom, it's been, it's been adelightful conversation.
I would like to.
Let you go, but before you go,if people want to learn a little
bit more about, let's say you'reclimbing, where can they,
actually both, you're climbing,where can they find information

(01:14:44):
on that, or also if they want tolearn about some of the work you
do as an environmentalist, isthere a source you can I confess
I'm

Tom (01:14:53):
not the most sort of active person on the social media
stuff, but I do have anInstagram presence.
I'm at El Cerrito Tom onInstagram, and so that's, people
can certainly get in touch withme there.
I got a lot of messages thereand respond to things there.

(01:15:16):
So yeah, I guess that's probablyabout the best that I could
offer.

Kush (01:15:24):
I think on behalf of all the climbers, I think we are.
Thankful for two things here, atleast two things, which is one
is to, for you to continue toinspire us with your, your
climbing and your first senseand your performance.
And then secondly, thetrailblazing.
advocacy work that, that you'vebeen doing.

(01:15:47):
And I know that there's never ashortage of advocacy and
environmental work in climbing.
So for many of us who would liketo know, Hey, how do we get
started?
We love climbing.
We love these areas, but we arelazy or we need, like, we need
to be spoon fed and told what todo.
What would be some simple.

(01:16:07):
things, simple steps to getinvolved with helping protect
climbing beyond just paying formemberships to the coalitions.

Tom (01:16:16):
Yeah, that's a good question.
You're very kind, Kush.
In terms of becoming involved,there is no shortage of hardware
replacement work that the ASCAsponsors, the American Safe
Climbing Association, anorganization that was founded

(01:16:37):
locally in San Francisco byChris Mack.
And you can participate in thatwork either at the more advanced
level by pulling bolts andreplacing them, but you can also
participate in that work bythings that are much easier to
do, like swapping out more andlower off hardware, for example.

(01:17:01):
Um, and the ASCA has got a greatwebsite.
In terms of access fund work, Ireally think that if you're a
climber, it's really importantto contribute to those
organizations and to belong.
And part of that is not justwriting an annual membership
check, it's participating in.

(01:17:24):
Projects that need help locallyand local climbing coalitions
are a great way of finding outwhat work needs to be done and
the access fund itself, thenational organization is.
a great way and has a host ofresources on their website on

(01:17:47):
things that are very topical andtimely right now.
Comment period the end of themonth for the national proposal
on fixed anchors in wilderness.
I think those are some greatplaces to start accessfund.
org and asca.
org or american safeclimbing.
org.

Kush (01:18:08):
Absolutely.
Those are great.
And, uh, since I personallyenjoyed doing that bit of trail,
trail building work recently,any such projects that are
upcoming in the next quarterthat people can learn about?
Or can they just follow you onyour, on your Instagram?

Tom (01:18:29):
A better place really is, I think, through Locally, the Bay
Area Climbers Coalition, whichwill appoint people to all sorts
of local trail days, workparties.
So yeah, I think there's three,three places online that are a

(01:18:52):
host of information for folkswho want to help.
I'd encourage people thatparticipate in.
All those three organizations.
It's a fun way of meeting otherclimbers and doing something to
give back to the community.
And you'll typically meet abunch of folks who may know

(01:19:13):
about some amazing cliffs thatyou'd like to go climb at.
So thanks for all your kindwords and Maybe I would just say
keep on rocking in the freeworld.
Okay, that's a good place, agood message to leave you with.

Kush (01:19:33):
I can see that you couldn't help that, but that's
an excellent note to end thisconversation with.
It's still midday.
We still have daylight.
So.
I'm off for a bike ride.
I hope so.
A lunch bike ride.
I hope you get out and get somesunshine yourself.
Again, thank you for letting mekeep you this long, Tom.
It's been, it's been a pleasure.

(01:19:54):
Okay, cheers.
See you

Tom (01:19:54):
at the cliffs.
All right, right on.
Take care.

Kush (01:20:01):
Damn.
Well, I don't believe Tom for asecond.
He's definitely talented or atleast talented enough to
completely love what he does andpursue joy in all aspects of his
life.
The key things I take away, donot give up.
Despite what the docs or anybodymay tell you, you know yourself.

(01:20:25):
Improvement is possible for allof us.
Tom Climed is hardest at 57.
Train, but make it fun.
And you can train for powerlifelong.
So do not give up on pushingthose power limits.
Find or continue in engaging insports that are fun.

(01:20:49):
You will keep doing them evenwhen you are low.
Lastly, community and goodfriends.
They help a lot.
Find ways to give back.
I also enjoyed Tom's wit.
Yes, he does have good habits,maybe more than your average
nun.

(01:21:09):
More about him, his climbing andhis witticisms can be found on
his Instagram.
At El Cerrito Tom.
We'll post the link in the shownotes.
Until next time, stay ageless.

All Episodes

#4 Tom Addison - Elite Grades, First Ascents, Games Within Climbing, and Endless Wit

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

The Nikki Glaser Podcast

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#4 Tom Addison - Elite Grades, First Ascents, Games Within Climbing, and Endless Wit