#21 Craig DeMartino - The Unexpected Gifts of Adversity, How Climbing Became a Catalyst for Healing and Empowerment - Ageless Athlete - Stories and Secrets of Adventure Sports Icons

Episode Transcript
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Kush (00:04):
Welcome to Ageless athlete.
The podcast where we go deepinto lives of those who keep
moving, keep striving and keeppushing the boundaries.
Forget age, forget limitations.
Here.
It's all about the fire and theheart.
And today we have a guest whostories guaranteed to light that
fire in you.

(00:26):
Craig DiMartino embodies thespirit of the spot.
Gaston everywhere.
He's a claimer, a teacher, amentor.
And an inspiration to anyonewho's ever faced a challenge.
Craig's relationship with theoutdoors goes way back, starting
in the humble crags ofPennsylvania.
It wasn't just a hobby.
It became a way of life, apassion that shaped his world.

(00:49):
But life, as we know.
Throws curve balls.
And his case, it was adevastating accident that
changed everything.
He found himself at acrossroads.
Facing a future that seemedunimaginable.
But Craig is not a man who backsdown.
He made a choice, a bull one.
To not let this event definehim.

(01:11):
And that choice led him.
On N.
Incredible journey of adaptationgrit.
And ultimately triumph.
Today Craig stands as a championadaptive athlete.
He has five, a sense of at gap.
I do have them in less than 24hours.
He is the two times nationalchampion.

(01:31):
Two times Bron medalist andworlds.
And five times extreme games,gold medalist.
What makes Craig's story trulystand out?
Create now dedicate his life tohelping others discover.
The transformative power ofclimbing.
He works tirelessly withveterans and individuals with
disabilities.

(01:52):
Sharing his knowledge experienceand unwavering belief in the
human spirit ability to overcomeany challenge.
He leads adaptive climbingclinics.
Mentors, aspiring climbers.
And advocates for greaterinclusivity in the sport.
He loves.
He not only returned to thesport he loves, but also

(02:15):
dedicated himself to helpingothers discover the power and
joy of climbing.
No matter their physicalabilities.
We will be exploring his storyin detail.
The highs, the lows, the momentof doubt.
And unwavering resolve thatgathered him through.
They will talk about theincredible power of the

(02:36):
community.
The innovations that have openeddoors for adaptive athletes.
And the profound lessons thatGreg has learned along the way.
Craig is extremely thoughtful.
Very articulate and such agifted storyteller.
You will be so glad you tunedinto this one.

(02:58):
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(03:39):
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Okay.
On with the show.
Hi Craig, thanks for joining ustoday on the, H list athlete
podcast.
Please tell us, where are youtoday and what did you have for

(04:00):
breakfast?

Craig (04:02):
I am in Loveland, Colorado, where my wife and I
are based out of.
We've lived in Colorado for areally long time, so that's kind
of our home.
I actually had oatmeal thismorning

Kush (04:13):
do You prepare your oatmeal?

Craig (04:15):
So today I was super lazy and I just put nuts in it with a
little bit of, um, honey.
That's it.
Super simple

Kush (04:23):
simple, efficient and, uh, Reliable.

Craig (04:27):
and mobile.
Yeah.
when I need it to be mobile.

Kush (04:34):
Sure.
Actually, funny you speak ofmobile.
I half expected you to perhapsbe in your, uh, camper van.
I thought maybe, uh, you weretaking advantage of, spring
weather to, uh, get the climbingseason rolling.

Craig (04:49):
Yeah, we, we just came back from Spain.
So, um, we were climbing inChulia.
So I, I was, when we got backhere, the weather was terrible.
Yeah, as you know, it's reallygood right now.
So we are kind of itchy to gohere, but we have a bunch of
work we're catching up on rightnow.
So we're doing some clinics andthings like that.
So, climbing, I think next weekthough, get outside again.

(05:11):
So we're happy.
I'm happy spring is here.

Kush (05:14):
I feel we already have.
There's one thing in common,which is I see sun peeking
behind you.
The day looks bright and it'sthe same here in San Francisco.
It's a, it's a gloriously, uh,sunny, beautiful day.

Craig (05:31):
Yep.
It's been, um, when we, so we'vebeen really fortunate.
My wife and I travel a fairamount.
And, um, every time we've gonein the past two months climbing
on these trips, when we leaveColorado, it snows.
And then when we come back, it'slike 70 degrees.
So I think we're timing itright.
And I think like now, I thinkfor the foreseeable future here

(05:51):
in Colorado, it's supposed to bereally nice.
So we're, I am not arguing.
I love it.
So yeah, when it's, I need thesun, I'm not one of those people
who can do the, like the cloudsall the time.
I could never live in likeSeattle.
Cause I just, it's beautiful.
Um, but I just need the, I needto see the sun a lot.
So this Colorado kind of servesthat in, in space.
So I love it.

Kush (06:12):
I will say that I am more of a lizard when it comes to,
uh, soaking, soaking in, uh,soaking in sunshine than, than

Craig (06:24):
It's a good way to say that.
That's a good way to say that.
I like that.
Awesome.

Kush (06:30):
great.
can you share a bit about whoyou are what do you do?

Craig (06:35):
Yeah, of course.
I have been a climber prettymuch most of my life.
I started climbing right out of,um, like about halfway through
my college, uh, career.
A friend of mine got, wasgetting married and he did a
bachelor party where we wentclimbing and I had never climbed
before.
I just, Was curious and wentand, um, and I loved it from the
very first day.

(06:56):
And this was in Pennsylvania,like this scrappy little cliff
in Pennsylvania, um, calledLivesey rock.
And we went out and to me, thatwas like as big as El Cap, you
know, like it was, I think it'smaybe 35 feet tall, but I mean,
I not being a climber, I waslike.
amazed by what we were doing.
But I really loved the, um, theengagement and the movement.
And I wasn't a very athletickid.

(07:17):
Um, you know, I was an artstudent.
I wasn't an outdoor person.
I grew up climbing and, orcamping and fishing with my, my
dad and my brother.
But, um, you know, I wouldn'thave said like I was an outdoor
person.
I was, you know, I just didthose things as a hobby.
And then we went climbing and Iwas like, It just kind of
clicked in my something in mybrain just clicked and I just

(07:39):
remember thinking this is what Iwant to do now, so I started
climbing with this buddy who wasat that bachelor party and then
he kind of passed me on to thisother individual because you
know back then I've beenclimbing about 34 years back
then there wasn't a climbing gymyet, so You kind of depended on
other people to show you around.
And that's what these, uh,friends did.

(08:01):
They kind of taught me thebasics of how to place gear and
all that good stuff and, um, doit efficiently and, and do it
well.
So you don't, you're not pullinggear and.
You know, hitting the ground,that's obviously what we don't
want.
So, um, it was really neat tokind of grow up in that time as
a climber and, and as a human, Iwas just, you know, as I was
maturing, I was also maturingwith my climbing, um, and then

(08:23):
moved to Colorado, uh, met mywife in Pennsylvania.
She's actually from Pennsylvaniaas well, but we met, um, in a
climbing gym that I was workingin and then she was going to
CSU.
I moved out here, uh, to climbmore and then we kind of started
climbing together and gotmarried and ended up having two
kids who are now, um, youngadults, which has been really

(08:46):
fun as well.
And, uh, and then Cindy and I,Cindy is a core climber as, as
myself, she's been climbing aslong as I have been.
And, um, And we work together.
We, we teach adaptive climbingclinics all over the country.
Um, and in Puerto Rico andHawaii and, uh, where we go and
kind of show people with alldifferent physical disabilities,

(09:08):
how to climb and engage with thenatural world and, uh, Kind of
show them that by doing that,you're, you're the healing and
just the, um, the peace of mindand quality of life you get from
that we use climbing as thatvehicle to get them there.
So we're able to introduce allthese individuals to climbing
and just how beautiful it canbe.

(09:29):
And as you and I were chattingbefore, it's, it is a lifestyle
sport and kind of showing themthat lifestyle and saying this.
Maybe it's not climbing, butmaybe it is nature.
So we want you to engage withboth and then figure out what
you like.
Um, and then they can go, youknow, do whatever they're going
to do.
But the nonprofit that we workwith that is based in Denver,

(09:51):
um, that's called AdaptiveAdventures, and they.
Offer different outdoor sports.
So, you know, lots of the kindof the sports that we all know,
you know, with the exception ofsurfing, it's, it's skiing,
biking, climbing, paddling,things like that.
Um, we can kind of then pushthem that way too.
So they can still get thatquality of life, but we're just
kind of that entry point forthem to show them, Hey, you can

(10:11):
be doing these things.
So that's kind of me in anutshell up to today.

Kush (10:16):
I forgot to ask you, how old are you?

Craig (10:18):
58, getting old as dirt.

Kush (10:22):
You may say 58 and I will believe you because this has
been recorded, but you do notlook that old.
a day over 45.
I was thinking we are the sameage.

Craig (10:32):
Oh, you're, you're wonderful.
You're my new favorite person.

Kush (10:36):
we are recording this for those of us who are listening on
audio, but yeah, Craig has thisgreat, uh, head of hair, which
I'm very jealous of.
So hang on.
So you started climbing 34 yearsago in Pennsylvania.
So you were Let's say you were34 at that, uh, sorry, you were

(10:57):
24 Approximately.

Craig (10:59):
Approximately.

Kush (11:00):
is actually also about the same time I started climbing.
I started climbing in the EastCoast in North Carolina and at
the New River Gorge in WestVirginia.
So yeah, maybe 24 is a good yearto start climbing for those of
us who still want to.

Craig (11:16):
That must be, it's weird too.
Cause like we don't meet, um, Imean, oddly enough, we do know a
lot of older athletes who arestill doing their sport, but
like there's not a lot, there'snot like a ton of people who
have been, who just have said,I'm going to do this my whole
life.
You know, I kind of, becausewe're in the climbing world and
see them come in and out, youknow, people will cycle in and

(11:38):
then cycle out as, as thingshappen in their life.
Um, we've, you know, been reallyfortunate just to be able to
stay, you As a part of it andmake it, you know, kind of that
lifestyle that we like to pursueand chase.
And it's still fun.
I mean, as I'm sure you know,it's, you know, still, I love
doing it still.
It's even when it's bad, it'sstill good.

(11:58):
So it's, it's a really fun thingto be a part of.
Sure.

Kush (12:03):
And then you were savvy enough to meet your life partner
at the climbing gym, whichmakes, makes for, uh, I would
say, uh, unified, uh, approachto, uh, to spending one's time.

Craig (12:19):
Very much so.

Kush (12:20):
What did you study in school or college?
And what did you think you wouldbe doing as an adult?
Or what did you want to be doingas an adult?
Before climate came over andtook over, uh,

Craig (12:32):
well, so I, I studied design and photography, um,
graphic design and photographyand, uh, was working as a
photographer.
I worked for Associated Pressfor about eight years in Philly.
Um, and then I worked for, I, Idid, I did news for a long time
thinking I wanted to stay there,but then that, that's a bit of a

(12:53):
grind.
And I wasn't really climbing asmuch when I was doing that.
And then I realized, you knowwhat?
I don't want to be getting shotat and see all the things I was
seeing.
So I, I left when I came outhere, um, actually the
Associated Press app, the personI worked for in Philly said, I
can connect you to the ones inDenver, but I passed.

(13:15):
And I was like, I think I'mgoing to just move on now and do
what, uh, something else.
And so I thought I wanted to doa climbing photography.
And I came out here and I metCraig Lubin, who was a force of
nature here in, in the frontrange.
Um, and Craig and I became fastfriends.
Um, Cindy already knew him.
So I was, that's how I gotintroduced to him, but he and I

(13:37):
were, were ended up becominggood friends and he was into
photography as well.
So he and I would kind of work.
Together.
And he was writing for climbingmagazine at the time.
So I figured, okay, I'm justgoing to do that.
Um, but then I quickly realizedwhen you're a climbing
photographer, and this is why Ihave a ton of respect for any
climbing photographer I workwith.

(13:57):
You work your ass off.
It is hard work.
And so.
I realized I wanted to beclimbing and not taking
pictures.
And so Craig and I, I shot Craiga bunch and Craig would shoot me
and he would write things, wewould do things together, but I
quickly realized, okay, I don't,this is not what I want to be
doing.
And so I took my design degreeand, uh, my photo degree and I

(14:21):
started working kind of more inpublishing where I could kind
of.
Do stuff for magazines, not inthe climbing world, um, but like
product photography.
I did that for a long time andthen just lifestyle photography.
And so I was doing those inconjunction with my climbing and
then climbing just kept gettingbigger and bigger in my life.
And photography kind of was, washolding its own cause that's how

(14:42):
I supported myself.
Um, but I just didn't, I didn'tknow what I wanted to do after
that.
I just was kind of, Opening andclosing as, as I was moving
through life.
Um, and then of course I had,you know, a big change in my
life in, in 2002 that, that kindof definitely pivoted me and
redirected me.
But, you know, the design piece,I still feel like I use my

(15:05):
design background just because Iunderstand what people are
saying when they're talkingabout it and marketing and
things like that.
So I think that's.
This only helped me, but now I,I haven't, this is embarrassing,
but I haven't picked up a cameraother than my iPhone in, oh my
gosh, I actually, I couldn'ttell you, I couldn't tell you
when I did it last.
That's terrible.

(15:25):
Um, but it's been a long time.
Yeah,

Kush (15:28):
you are certainly not the first person to, uh, put your,
uh, your larger camera to restin favor of, uh, a smartphone
camera.
Many of us are guilty of guiltyof doing that.
And.
You are so right.
Mad props to the luminariesamongst us who are able to

(15:50):
juggle both taking photos andclimbing at the same time and do
them both with such finesse.
It is, A testament of, I don'tknow,

Craig (16:01):
It

Kush (16:01):
grit, hard work and, uh, talent, I think.

Craig (16:05):
I watched them work and I'm just, you know, I'm in awe.
Like, I mean, I've climbed outcap with photographers like
Mikey Schaefer and James Q.
Martin, and you watch those guyson a rope and it's just the
amount of efficiency andprofessionalism is.
And fitness, just like generalfitness.
Those guys are monsters.

(16:25):
And yet you just, people see thephoto and they're like, oh,
that's cool, but it's like, ohmy God, you know what went into
that?
That is like some serious workright there.
Um, so yeah, I'm right therewith you.
Mad, mad props to all the thingsthey do.

Kush (16:39):
Craig, you just alluded to this life changing event that
transpired in 2002 that perhapsbegan your journey as an
adaptive climbing athlete.
If you're comfortable sharing,could you tell us a little bit
about what happened And how it,uh, impacted your approach to

(17:05):
climbing and to your life.

Craig (17:08):
Yeah.
Of, of course.
Um, it was 2002 and I had beenclimbing, you know.
14 or so years at the I'm notsure actually how much but um
was here in Colorado and went toRocky Mountain National Park
with a really good friend ofours, who I'm still really good
friends with as well and he he'solder is slightly older than me,
probably three years older thanme, um, had been climbing longer

(17:30):
than me at that point, um, andhe just said, hey, let's go do
this.
thing way out on Sundancebuttress, which, uh, and on
lumpy ridge, it's, it's in, inEstes park, basically, but it's
this beautiful line of cliffsthat run out the valley and
Sundance buttress is the lastescarpment.
And we kind of hiked out.
It's a pretty far hike.
It's like 45 minutes or an houron this flat trail, then heading

(17:53):
up this talus cone.
And we went out and we're goingto do this thing that he had.
Um, I think he had top roped itthe year before it's called
white man and it's an 11c Kindof discontinuous crack system
that runs up to a ledge and it'sit's four pitches But the money
pitch is the first pitch and somost people just do that 11c
first pitch And so we kind ofwent out and he said I don't

(18:16):
want to lead it He's like, but Ido want to work on it and then
lead it.
So he's like I said, yeah,gladly lead it.
We had been climbing a bunch ofdifferent things in the park.
Um, cause at that time my kidswere young, my kids were two and
four.
So Cindy had run this, um, 50 Ktrail race the day before in
Leadville.
So she was taking a rest day andshe, so we would, we would kind

(18:37):
of like.
Switch back and forth, you know,and so Steve and I went up
there.
We hiked in racked up and Ittotally normal day.
It was just one of those weirdYou feel like a bit nervous But
you can't tell if it's likenerves or you're just excited to
be getting on something new andI think it was a mix Of both,
you know, I just had this weirdlittle little slightly off

(18:58):
feeling Tied in and I you knowthe first ten or so feet then I
kind of got in that rhythm ofyou know good crack climb You're
enjoying yourself.
Um, the gear is kinda tricky onit cause it's like these weird
flappy pieces of granite thatyou have to like feed the cams
behind.
So you can, it's a little bit ofblind placements.
Um, but it just makes it morechallenging and fun.

(19:19):
And so, um, led the climb, gotto the anchor and the anchor is,
is a hundred feet off the deck.
It's a, it's a small littleledge that you can step.
Your, your front of your feetare on the ledge and you're,
it's narrow that you're kind ofhanging over.
so it's about six inches wideby, I don't know, three feet
long.
And there's a two bolts upthere.
It's a drilled anchor.

(19:40):
And so I got up there, clippedin.
And what he and I had talkedabout was he said, I want to top
rope it to just get the movesand feel it again.
And then I think he, the ideawas he was going to, we would
drop the rope and then he wouldlead it.
So I thought in, we never,communicated this piece.
This is where it kind of gotoff, you know, off the rails.

(20:00):
When I heard top rope, I wasthinking, okay, I'm going to, Be
lowered and he'll alay him fromthe ground and he was thinking
he was gonna second the pitchand come up and then we'd wrap
off together.
And then he would, the ropewould all, you know, we would be
set up for a top rope.
So I rigged it for a lower.
So basically took two longslings, equalized them, and then
ran my rope through there.

(20:21):
I was still clipped in directlyto the anchor.
Um, and the anchor sits aboutfour feet from the actual climb.
So you get up on this ledge andthen you have to traverse
slightly over.
So there's a bit of a bend, youknow, the ropes kind of
traveling to your right and thendown that a hundred feet.
So, um, I yelled down to Steveand I said, okay, all you, he,
and at that point we were usingkind of slang just because we

(20:43):
weren't, number one, I couldn'tsee him.
And so I just yelled down, okay,I'm all, you know, I'm ready.
I'm good.
And he said, okay, you're allgood.
He thought, okay, Craig's goingto not belay me up and I'll get
to the anchor and we'll comedown together.
I heard, okay, you're all good.
So I reached over one last timeand I kind of pulled on the rope

(21:05):
to see if I felt him, you know,felt the friction back.
And I did, I felt like, youknow, I felt some kind of pull
going back.
What that really was, was ahundred feet of rope hanging
down through.
You know, 10 pieces of gear thatI had clipped.
So I felt tension and I thoughtthat's him.
So because I couldn't see him, Ijust pulled in unclipped.
Sat back and I just startedfalling.

(21:27):
And so it's weird.
Like I've played this in my heada lot of times, you know,
because it was such a bigaccident.
And when I started to fall, Ithought, Oh, he must have like a
loop of slack out.
You know, maybe he was like.
Putting his shoes on.
I didn't know what was going on,moving a bag or who knows,
right?
Your brain starts thinkingreally quickly.
Like you're, you're kind ofdoing, you're assessing what's

(21:49):
happening.
And so I thought, okay, it'sgoing to snap tight here any
second.
But then I started kind ofpicking up speed and I thought,
Oh, maybe he like fell and isgetting pulled.
Cause that actually happened tome at shelf road.
One year, a buddy of mine wasbarefoot and he was bullying him
when I popped off and he gotdrug a little bit.
Cause his feet.

(22:10):
Dougan to the rocks and kind ofit kind of hurt his feet.
So he kind of got pulled by me.
So I thought, Oh, maybe that'shappening.
And I'm it's still in yourbrain.
You're thinking I am going tostop.
And then I realized I'm justpicking up speed and I'm going
faster and faster.
I'm not stopping.
So The climb is steep, but it'sreally kind of, there's a lot of
things that you could bump intoon the way down.

(22:32):
So I wanted to kind of get awayfrom the wall.
And the last thing that Iremember is seeing the trees to
my left, because the climb sitson a slanted hill.
So I could see this steep cliff.
kind of green blur coming, and Ijust pushed to get away from the
cliff.
So I, both hands, and that tookme out and I could, I actually

(22:52):
turned and could see, but whatit did was it also tipped me
because the, just the momentum Icreated after that.
So I was, you know, going downand then tipping sideways.
And I started, I was fallingmost of the, that hundred feet
sideways.
Um, but about 20 feet from theground, right where the climb
starts, there was a dead end.
Pine tree that was leaningagainst the cliff and I clipped

(23:14):
it with my head.
And so that tree stood me backup to standing basically
perfectly perfect standingposition, which from that height
is probably the only way you canactually survive.
Because if you land sideways,you just, you know, your head's
going to get smashed.
You're going to crush all yourinternal organs.
I landed standing like leaningslightly to the right.

(23:36):
And I know that because my rightside got Broken more than my
left side.
And when I hit, I hit so hardthat the climbing shoes I had on
exploded and all the bone, likeI had calc, uh, compound
fractures of both legs.
So on the lower part of my legswhere your ankles kind of come
into your tibia and yourfibular, Um, that all just

(23:56):
exploded and my heels exploded.
Um, shoes exploded, uh, severedthe artery in my right leg.
So that shockwave though has togo somewhere.
It doesn't just like dissipate.
So it goes up your body and itwent up and, uh, broke my back.
It crushed my back at L2, whichis kind of through your belly
button here.
and that hit so hard.

(24:17):
It, it, I powdered it, just kindof.
Disappeared.
It just keeps moving and itbroke the ribs on my right side,
um, hit my elbow and broke thebursa sacs on my elbow, tore up
my shoulder and then as itexited, it snapped my, broke my
neck at C5, C6, which is righthere, uh, through your Adam's
apple.
And then I just hit and I justcrumpled over and Steve was

(24:39):
standing, I don't know, 10 feetaway and he was just.
Obviously shocked and ran overand he said, you know, because I
severed the artery in my leg, Iwas bleeding really badly and he
has some first aid training,luckily, and so he grabbed a
sling off the rack and put atourniquet on my leg really
quick with a stick, you know,just kind of twisted it, which

(25:00):
probably in many ways, I think,saved my life because I would
have just bled out and we werepretty far back in the back.
I mean, it's a pretty Bye.
Long way back there.
and Steve, this is, uh, 2002,Steve had a cell phone with him,
but like back then, like wedidn't really use cell phones
that much.
I mean, you had it, but youdidn't really use it that much.
And next to a Sundance is abouta thousand feet.

(25:23):
It's a big piece of rock.
And, you know, in the park, inthe middle of nowhere, and he
flips it open and got a cellphone signal and ended up.
Getting connected to 9 1 1, andthen 9 1 1 connected him to
Rocky Mountain Rescue, and theguy who picked up, this is when
it just like gets super trippy,the guy who picked up the phone
at Rocky Mountain Rescue was aclimber, and he was like, what

(25:45):
climb are you at?
And he told him, and he's like,I know right where you are, do
not move.
And so this guy, Eric Gabriel,was literally at my side.
I hit the ground at around 2 30.
This guy was at my side 45minutes later, which is unheard
of in that, in the back country,it's just crazy to me.
And so he, he got there andstarted doing the initial

(26:06):
assessment, realized, Oh my God,this guy is.
And he's like, I knew it.
We had to get you out of therereally fast.
And so they put together arescue and, it took about seven
hours, but they got a helicopterto come in, uh, that they
flighted me to Fort Collins.
I was in intensive care for aweek.
Um, cause they didn't think Iwould survive the night just
because of all the injuries.

(26:27):
And they told my wife, you know,they fused my back right away
from L1 through four, took allthe debridement out, you know,
you go in and kind of clean outyour spine.
But then they said, you know,we're just going to wait because
He's so, he's got so manyinjuries.
We're just going to see if hesurvives.
I did obviously.
And then basically for the nextthree months, um, I would just

(26:48):
have surgery after surgery aftersurgery, just kind of fix what I
had, you know, broken.
Um, and then at three, you know,they, three months, they kind of
send you home.
They, they get you as good asthey're going to get you.
Um, I went home with using aWalker, uh, both legs in a cast
back, still in a cast.
neck was in a C collar and youthen start to try to like piece

(27:10):
your life back together becausethere's no, for me, there wasn't
like a, Oh, I'm going to callthis person and talk to them.
I didn't know anyone who gothurt that bad.
So, um, the next year prettymuch was me just trying to like
sort out, okay, who am I, whatjust happened?
You know, you're trying to piecethat together as well.
And then my wife and I were liketrying to figure out, I said to

(27:32):
her, Or actually she said to me,we obviously talked about
climbing when I was in thehospital and she said if you
want to climb again I totallyunderstand that and we'll help
you do that.
If you don't want to climbagain, I also understand that
and that's fine.
You can decide to do that.
It's up to you.
But I feel like, um, because shewas able to kind of introduce

(27:54):
that thought back to me, it mademe go, Oh, I do miss climbing.
I missed, you know, I would talkto our friends when they would
visit and, you know, I missedbeing out there.
So there was like that curiositystill.
Um, I just didn't know how Iwould do it.
I had no freaking clue.
And, um, then right around 18months after the accident, my

(28:15):
leg, my right leg, was still ina cast.
Um, I had done 11 surgeries onit and my orthopedic was like,
we, that's it.
Like we can't, you broke it sobad.
There's nothing in there really.
So you're either going to dolive your life like this in a
cast the rest of your life.
I was 34 at the time, or Youcould do something different and

(28:39):
they don't really ever offer youlike amputation that that's not
what they're there for you needto get there on your own.
Um, and I talked to a couple ofdifferent people who had, who
would have been amputated andwe're living full lives and
athletes.
And, um, I just thought, youknow what, I'm going to do that
and went in and.
Talked to him, my orthopedic,and he said, you're doing the

(29:00):
right thing.
And so December 3rd, um, theyear after the accident, I went
in and amputated.
And then that kind of startedthis whole new direction for me
because I kind of went back toclimbing about four months
later, top roping with, withCindy and the kids.
And that kind of made merealize, Oh, I still love doing

(29:22):
this.
I just have to figure out like,how do I do it now?
Cause I'm completely different.
So what, what does that looklike?
What is my new normal?
And how do I integrate that intothe climbing world that I love?
And that, that started me kindof in the direction that I've
been in now for the past, gosh,20 years, where I'm just
learning to interface with thisnew body and prosthetic and

(29:44):
things like that.
Challenge is how do I make thatinto still being able to climb,
still being able to enjoyclimbing.
And now.
be able to show other peoplewhat climbing is like.
So it, it definitely was apivot, a big change for me, but
now in retrospect, it's like, Imean, I wouldn't want to fall
off a cliff again, no way, but Ido, I do appreciate what it has

(30:08):
done for me in my life now andthe direction that it has pushed
me.
So to get me here today,

Kush (30:16):
Craigeg, I appreciate you taking us through that, uh,
story, even though I'm sureyou've had to recount some of
these, uh, details many, manytimes over the last couple of
decades.

Craig (30:33):
sure.

Kush (30:33):
I'm going to ask you a couple of questions about this
experience.
You packed it all into this nicelittle, uh, essay for us, but
there are so many things thathappened.
Some of the details are forsure, I mean, the whole story is
mind boggling and some of thedetails are worth getting into

(30:56):
just a little bit.
The one thing that I want tocall out is, so this is 2002.
This is before cell phonesbecame the new normal.

Craig (31:07):
Yes, very much.

Kush (31:08):
the fact, the fact that you were out in the back
country, and you were able toreceive a phone signal

Craig (31:18):
Yes.

Kush (31:19):
and connect to somebody who understood your location.
So again, I think for people,people don't realize this, but
back then you couldn't justshare your location on your
phone.
Like you could just triangulatesomebody by just sharing that
thing and have somebody justcome and get you, you know, it
didn't work like that.

Craig (31:37):
Exactly.

Kush (31:38):
I had, um, so a little, maybe a decade after your
accident, I had a littleaccident myself, nothing like
what you went through, but I wasclimbing with a friend at
Lover's Leap in California.
which you might know about.
It's this crag by Tahoe.
And it's funny.
We also had a little climbingaccident and we had to call

(31:59):
rescue services, but it's funny.
We did not, you cannot get,maybe now it's changed, but back
then you could not get signal atthe bottom of the cliff,

Craig (32:10):
Sure.

Kush (32:12):
two thirds our way up this, I forget how tall Lovers
Leap is, but anyway, two thirdsup this, let's say this 500 foot
phase.
My phone was working we couldconnect to somebody and have
somebody guide us to do a bitof, yeah, to stabilize us and
then help us come down.

(32:32):
But it is, I guess some of usare lucky.
I mean, we can also be extremelyunlucky.
Like what you, what happened toyou would not want to wish that
upon anybody.
But in, in, in some ways, do youever like count your blessings
in a way where you're like, Ohmy God, I went through this.

(32:54):
This totally freak accident.
People get people, you know,millions, I don't know,
thousands of talk probes are setup world over maybe every day.
And you ended up on this wrongside.
This really, really freak.
Situation.
But do you ever think about thefact that it could have just had

(33:14):
your partner not had that bit offirst aid, um, knowledge and uh,
and awareness and all theseother things with the cell phone
signal and the rescue not cometogether?
Things could have gone moresouth than they already had.

Craig (33:30):
Absolutely.
I mean, I am constantly in aweof all the things that lined up
because like you said, like youcan, you couldn't just drop a
pin and say, I'm here.
It's like this, the, the guyknew, like, not only did he know
where we were, he actually knewhow to access it through this
ranch.
It's called the McCraigor ranch,which is the, basically the

(33:51):
whole Valley and Estes is ownedby this family.
They had permission to gothrough a gate.
So he's like, Not only did heknow like, okay, you're at the
base of white man on Sundance.
I know where that is.
I know how to drive my truck tothe base of the talus is what he
did.
And then he could run up thehill.
So he only had to do like a 10minute approach with a pack on.

(34:12):
Whereas we had to hike in, likeI said, like 45 minutes to an
hour to get to the, to the.
Area we were in this guy, Ericknew exactly how to get there.
So everything from like the, thehelicopter being able to land
before dark, cause they have tofly by line of sight in the camp
in that Valley.
Um, and they, and I rememberthem saying that to me, like, if
we don't get you out by dark, wehave to drive you.

(34:35):
So, and if we drive you, this isnot what they say to you, but
like in now later, you learn allthese things, you know, if they
have to drive that obviouslytakes a lot more time.
With a person who has all thisheavy trauma and is bleeding,
probably not going to survive.
So a helicopter is, is just likethe thing you need to get on.
And so they were able to get mein a helicopter before dark so

(34:56):
that to get me to the level ofcare that I needed, you know,
just all of those things linedup and I'm just constantly in
awe of that.
And, um, and I'm so gratefulfor.
Anyone who was involved withthat, who, you know, came and
helped me.
And, and I, and I, to this day,I bump into people who were part

(35:16):
of that.
And we'll just start that we'llkind of reminisce a little bit.
And it is so humbling to me tojust go, holy crap, you know,
thank you.
Just for being there and doingyour, what you think is your
job.
But like you are literallysaving people's lives.
And that, that is so humbling tohave been on the other side of
that.
And, and then all these yearslook back and go, God, that was

(35:37):
insane.
Um, and it still baffles me howcrazy it is, even though it's me
and I lived it.
It's, it's still baffles me whenI see.
When I see Sundance, when Idrive by, you know, cause we're
in that area all the time, notall the time, but quite often.
And, you know, you look at itand you're like, cause like you
said, it could have turned.
So many other ways and, anddidn't, and, you know, I'm just,

(36:00):
just so grateful to, to still behere doing what I'm doing and
being part of the community thatI am.
So, yeah, it's not lost on me.
I'm, I'm amazed by it all.

Kush (36:09):
When I had my little mini epic, I also was carried out in
a litter.
Over the talus, whatever at, uh,that was the only, because they
wanted to be sure that, um, Iwasn't hurt any more badly than
it seemed to Ben.
Like I had, you know,something's going on, but
honestly, like me.

(36:31):
So I grew up overseas, grew upin India and came here as an
immigrant.
I think for the first time, itreally struck me how grateful I
am to this country and tovolunteers who do this as a, as
a public service.
So I was.
bowled over by emotion.
I'm like, Oh my God, like to, tohave this, uh, help in times of,

(36:53):
uh, need.
Yeah, really.
Uh, I mean, God, you know,America has its problems, but
God bless America for, uh,

Craig (37:00):
I agree.
I, I, I totally agree, man.
Like everything you just said,I'm like a hundred percent.
Yes, that is very true.
All of it.

Kush (37:10):
one other point that I think is worth, uh, explaining
to many people here who may notclimb as much is a lot of these
places in the backcountry,they're not often connected by
roads, by trails, by signs forpeople to be able to find other
people.
You know, you are breaking trailoften to get to the base of a
climb.
You are going places where veryfew people go.

(37:34):
So again, the fact that thisperson knew how to, cross
through all kinds of things to,you know.
Organize this rescue is, isincredible.
Moving on a little bit, Craig,you made this insane decision to
voluntarily subject yourself toamputation.
I want to understand like thechoices.

(37:55):
that you were facing.
One is you would have continuedon.
And I think besides the leg,you, your body was also impacted
in other ways.

Craig (38:06):
Sure.

Kush (38:07):
Had you carried on without the amputation and maybe you
were able to get some data fromother people versus the decision
to actually go through theamputation.
Also, after having spoken topeople, you made some trade offs
hindsight knock on wood, likethose have worked out well, but
had you not gone through that,what kind of life would you be

(38:29):
facing?
And what kind of, yeah, whatkind of, limitations would you
have had today?

Craig (38:35):
And so my, my right leg, my left leg, they, they took the
hardware out of, so they, youknow, they, they put it in to
kind of get it to heal and thenthey take, they remove it.
My right leg, all the hardwarewas, Left in just because there
wasn't enough bone density oreven bones that connected that
it couldn't hold its own shape.
So they kind of shaped it withmetal.

(38:57):
Um, so I would have had to, hadI not amputated the, the, the
walking boot that they made forme was like a custom hard shell
case that went over my wholefoot and ankle and kind of came
about halfway up my leg to giveit stability and give it some
kind of platform to, to be ableto put it on.
Stand on and move.
Um, my orthopedic told me, youknow, without that on, I could

(39:21):
walk like on a carpeted floor.
That was perfectly flat.
I could walk barefoot on that,right?
But like I couldn't go very far.
I could maybe walk across thehouse and then it would just
hurt too much.
Um, that would have justprogressed and gotten worse
because the, the, the amount ofjoint damage that I did on both
throughout my body, um, wouldhave just kept getting worse.

(39:43):
And so my doctor explained it tome one time as, as, Um, having
mashed potatoes on the end of astick is what my, he said, my
foot looked like, um, so it wasjust like this weird, it would
have been fine, but it alsowould not have been the, the

(40:04):
life that I live now.
It would have been a much moresedentary life, um, Which that,
that just wasn't something Iwanted to do.
I mean, I knew I could continueon the path I was on, but I also
keep in mind my back was fused.
My neck is fused.
Um, when I would walk, I wasuneven because of the boot.

(40:25):
And so it would have been, Ihave to deal with chronic pain
anyway, even with theamputation.
Um, cause you just cannot do allthis damage and not have
residual effects for your life.
But I realized.
You know, I wouldn't have beenable to climb.
Um, I probably couldn't hikeinto something because of the
foot.

(40:46):
And I just kept looking at itand it looked, it was so
misshapen.
I couldn't move it.
I could, it was just like thisappendage that just didn't work.
And so Cindy and I would talk,you know, just all the time
about what, it seems insane tocut your leg off, but like you

(41:06):
get to a point where you'relike, If I don't cut this off,
if I don't amputate this, I amnot going to move forward.
I am going to stay right here.
And the thing that I kept goingback to was that the accident,
when you're in that kind oftrauma, it just keeps taking
from you.
You know, you just keep losingstuff.
You know, you can't feel certainthings.

(41:28):
I have all this paralysis fromthe broken back where, you know,
I can't feel like basically thehalf of my body is numb.
So from my middle section hereback, I can't feel.
So if you touch my back, I can'treally feel you touch it.
Um, I can't feel temperature onmy leg.
I can't feel my other foot thatI have, my real foot.
I can't feel my foot because ofthe spinal cord injuries.

(41:50):
So you start to realize like,okay, If I'm, I'm going to have
those things no matter what, atleast I would have like a good
foot to stand on, you know, andthat would be the amputated one.
So you, your mind kind of, whenyou first start thinking about
it, you're like, hell no,there's no way I'm, that's
insane.
And then as you go down thatroad, you really, you start to

(42:11):
realize like, if I want to.
Past like being sedentary,sitting on the couch, I would
still work, I would still be adad, still be a husband, but I
wouldn't be the person that Iwanted to be.
You realize, okay, if that's theonly way to do that, then Then
I'm just gonna do that.
And so it took me, you know, 18months to get there.

(42:35):
And right around, uh, 17 months,I developed this nerve disorder
in my, my right leg.
Um, it's called RSD or somepeople call it, chronic pain
syndrome or something.
It's, it's basically this reallywicked nerve pain.
Um, and I went in and, you know,the neurologist said, oh, it's
because.
When you hit the ground, youknow, they reconstruct that

(42:55):
nerve and the nerve rememberswhat happened last, which was
you hitting the ground.
So you're going to feel thatpain over and over and over and
over.
And so I said, well, if Iamputate, do I get above it?
Like, is that a way to do that?
And he's like, you probably notgoing to get above it, but he
said, you might.
Be able to control it some withsome drugs and things like that

(43:15):
your foot's still gonna hurt allthe time It's not gonna get
better.
So That also kind of dug intowhy I wanted to do it And then
once I made the decision it waskind of empowering because it
was kind of like me finallysaying Okay enough of this.
I need to do this really bigDramatic thing but in the end

(43:38):
it's gonna move me forward.
So Let's just do that.
And then, you know, December 3rdjumped in And, and for me, I
realized.
I had the perspective of, okay,I'm still here.
I love my wife.
I love my family and I love toclimb.
So I'm going to just focus onthose three things and that's

(43:59):
it.
I don't, I'm going to let, I'mnot going to worry about the
other crap, the trauma.
If you, you know, you'reoccupying this vessel and by
that, I mean this body that isshattered.
You're in it 24 seven, you don'tget a So I realized when I was
actually climbing.
I felt better.
I felt like I was moving.

(44:20):
I was like, my joints weregetting, you know, lubricated
and I could, I could feelbetter.
But when I was sedentary, I feltlike garbage.
And I, and that's the same wayfor me to this day.
If I'm sedentary for a longperiod of time, I just get
really creaky and achy andthings like that.
So when I started to move again,I was like, Oh.

(44:42):
This feels, this feels good.
This is a good thing.
And then once I got over themental part of like, oh my God,
I don't want to get hurt again.
I don't want to fall again.
And that took a year or two toget over that.
I top roped for like a probablya year and a half straight.
To just feel like, okay, I'mnot, my head's not going to
explode while I'm doing this.

(45:03):
Like I can deal with this again,um, kind of figure out how to
compartmentalize that fearpiece.
And then moving forward, I justrealized that's what makes me
happy.
And so why would I not, whywould I ignore that?
You know, I felt like I didn'twant the accident to take that
as well.
Cause you know, it was anaccident.
It wasn't like climbing justlike, Just crushed me.

(45:24):
It was an accident.
It could happen to anyone.
That's why they literally callit an accident.
So once I understood that and,and processed that through and,
um, talked with my partner who Iwas with that day, Steve, and he
and I processed that, you know,our friendship and just our
relationship and how this allaffected things.
Um, I realized that's what Iwanted to still be doing.

(45:45):
And, and then what was, wasweird was I met, it.
The right people at the righttime who helped me kind of
pursue things.
You know, that's when, uh, I metHans Florin, who's been on your,
your podcast.
again, I can't say enough to thecommunity of climbers where I
would reach out to these peopleand say, Hey, I'm thinking of
trying to do this thing.
And they would say, Oh, hellyeah, let's do this.

(46:08):
Like Hans was like, Oh yeah,yeah, I'll, I'll help you climb
fast.
What do you want to, what do youwant to know?
I was going to go to a speedclimbing comp and he was like,
Oh yeah, come out to the BayArea and we'll go, we'll go
climb El Cap together and we'lldo it in a, in a day because no
amputees have done that.
And I thought he was batshitcrazy when he said that.
I was just like, Dude, I was ina wheelchair when he said that

(46:28):
actually I was doing wheelies ina wheelchair when he said that
to me He didn't know that but Isays on my phone, but I'm like
that that isn't the dumbest ideaI've ever heard of dude like no,
you don't do that didn't tellhim any of that I was just like
I'm just gonna go I'm just gonnasee what happens My wife and I
came out with the kids and wewent to the valley and it ended

(46:49):
up working great We did lurkingfear together but it's like I
was really fortunate to say,this is what I love to do.
Um, so now how do I do it inthis new normal?
That is this shattered body.
Um, that only works kind ofdecent a short amount of time
during the day.
Like how do I balance that?

(47:10):
Um, but even though it was hardand like trying to figure stuff
out, it was still, every time Idid it, I was like, gosh, still,
I still want to do this.
I still have that, that passionand that itch to do it.
And I just couldn't, See myselfnot doing it.
And that's what I tell people islike, if you feel like you're
being driven somewhere, likeembrace it, like, don't run from

(47:32):
it.
Just like if you, if it'sshowing you over and over, this
is going to make you happy.
Do that.
Like, just go ahead and pursuethat.
That's a good thing.
If it's a healthy pursuit, man,just like go all in, just see
what happens.
Right.
I had no idea where it was goingto go.
I was just like.
I'll just do this part and seewhat happens right and just the
doors kind of kept opening forme then and it was just this

(47:54):
weird journey that has nowbecome what I would consider, I
think, one of the most wonderfullives I could ever live.
It's just like it put me in areally great spot.
So I am ever thankful for itall.

Kush (48:08):
Human beings are designed to move, you know,

Craig (48:12):
Yeah,

Kush (48:13):
is such a part of our identity.
I mean, we could not have fedourselves if we didn't know how
to move and find and forage.
Those of us who have been luckyto discover the benefits, you
know, the, the life givingproperties of being able to use
your bodies.
I think there is that mind andbody connection because I think
you are such a good person totalk about this because I think

(48:37):
climbing and moving perhapsbrought you into this flow
state, gave you the ability tofind delight and validation in
using your physical powers,which perhaps allowed you to
maybe transcend some of your,uh, physical anguish and mental

(48:58):
anguish, because you'regrappling with your new
identity.
You're able to get back intoclimbing and you're able to use
yourself in a way that give youjoy.

Craig (49:09):
Yeah.

Kush (49:10):
one thing I wanted to ask is, and this might be a bit
dumb, but all amputations arenot the same.
You had your leg amputated.
Somebody else might go throughthe same thing, but then the
rest of their body may still be.
quite intact.
While in your case, youdescribed, you know, some of the

(49:32):
other things with the paralysisand other, uh, injuries to your
other foot, and how you have tokeep up your medication regiment
Craig, just jumping up ahead alittle bit, you have gone on and
competed and done really well inParalympic Games and other

(49:55):
competitions for adaptiveathletes.

Craig (49:57):
Yeah.

Kush (49:58):
Is there a distinction made between the kind of
adaptations people areconfronted with when they come
to the Olympics?
Take part in, let's say aclimbing competition.

Craig (50:11):
Yeah.
They break it.
It's, it's kind of cool.
Like they break it intodivisions of what that physical
disability is.
So like amputations, forinstance, like you said, they're
all different, but you can kindof paint with a broad brush and
say, okay, leg amputations areclassified as below the knee or
above the knee.
I'm above, I'm below the knee.

(50:31):
And that, that is a, a, a break.
And then you also haveneurological effects.
So you can be.
You can have an amputation witha neurological effect, um, but
they generally are separated.
So you'll just have amputationsin one bucket and then
neurological in another bucket,blind in another bucket, so on
and so forth.

(50:52):
And then arms are the same way.
So an arm is going to either bebelow the elbow or above the
elbow.
It's kind of where thatclassification will hit.
And there are nuances to eachdifferent comp, That is like
with a broad brush.
They do break them into thesedifferent categories.
So then you're competing againstsomeone who's kind of like you,
obviously not going to beexactly like you.

(51:13):
Everyone is different, but youdo have similarities in that
physical disability.
So they kind of, you know, Theywant to make it as equitable as
they can.
It's very hard to do that, but,um, they, I think they do the
best they can.
And I competed for a really, Ithink I competed for like 12 or
13 years and loved it.
Um, because of the, thecommunity that I met, like I, I

(51:35):
was never a comp climber beforeI got hurt.
And then all of a sudden I wentto this first comp and I was
like, Oh my God, like everyone Imet was just like, Holy crap,
there's this whole world that Ihad no idea, like, all of a
sudden you're around everyonewho had some kind of disability,
and that just, even to this day,that doesn't happen very often,

(51:55):
where I'm just around a lot ofpeople, like, who look like me,
and so it's like this weird, um,comfort, you're just like, oh.
This is kind of rad.
Like everybody taking their legoff when they're sitting and
they're resting and comparingparts and pieces.
And it's like, damn, this iscool.
And some of my best friends arefrom that part of my life.

(52:16):
You know, I'm still very much intouch with them.
Um, we still climb together.
We still see each other.
Um, and so you get this likecommunity piece that you just.
You just didn't even know it wasthere.
It's like, damn, this isn't,it's powerful to me.
It was like, this is, this isreally cool stuff.
And I think that's why Icompeted so long was I just
still, you know, you go toEurope and you meet these folks

(52:37):
there.
It's like, God, this is afreaking amazing world that I
didn't even know existed.
It's like, and I wouldn't haveknown had I not got hurt.
So I am, yeah, theclassifications are cool.
The community, even cooler.

Kush (52:51):
I can only imagine the community being so cool.
And so perhaps close knitbecause climbing itself is still
a fringe activity.
And I think that sometimes drawsus closer together because we
are doing something, which eventoday is slightly

(53:14):
counterculture, I like to jokethat, uh, you know, it's a bunch
of, uh, slightly maladjustedpeople who found each other.
And now you have, uh, you have,uh, Adaptive climbers.
I'm guessing, you guys maybe alleven know each other, right?
People, maybe people youcompeted with or people who are
maybe the more prolific of the,uh, climbing community.

(53:36):
You probably, yeah, you have somuch to relate with and, uh, and
share with.

Craig (53:42):
Yeah.
And, and they're, they're evenmore maladjusted, I think.
So it's like, it's great to be apart of that.
Right.
It's like, it's cool to be ableto say it's, it's, it's always
comforting.
I think as a human to talk tosomeone who can understand
exactly what you're saying,right.
Like where they're like, I getit.
When you say this thing hurts,like my, my leg hurts me this
way.

(54:02):
They go, Oh yeah, dude, this, Ido this to help that.
And it's just.
Really nice to be around that.
Um, and yeah, I'm still friendswith like the guys I competed
with in my very first comp.
We are still good friends.
I mean, what, in fact, the oneguy, Pete Davis, um, He was the,
probably the first person I metin the adaptive world.

(54:23):
He's an arm amputee.
Um, and Pete and I did Zodiactogether.
We ended up doing the first, um,all disabled ascent of El Cap
together because of that firstmeeting.
We met at this comp in Florida,this janky comp in Florida.
It was horrible.
Like, as I look back on it, itwas terrible.
But, it was Right.
Because I got to all of a suddenmeet all these individuals who I

(54:45):
just had no idea even existedand forge these friendships.
And Pete and I just, um,immediately just clicked
together and stayed in touch andfriends.
And he loves to wall climb aswell.
And so he's just, it was justlike, yeah.
Oh my god, there's people whothink like I do, who have these
disabilities, are willing towork with it, and just figure it
out as we go, and then stillgetting after it, like still,

(55:09):
like, having fun, being great,amazing people, it's just, to me
it was like, oh my god, how didI, I want to be in this world,
like, this is amazing to me, so,yeah, it's just been this
amazing journey.
A really fun thing to exploreand be a part of.

Kush (55:24):
Craig, you got hurt and you started using the technology
at that time with yourprosthetic leg to allow you to
get back into climbing.
I'm curious, has the technologykept progressing with
prosthetics, with theseadaptations to allow you to

(55:46):
allow you and others in thecommunity to keep getting better
at climbing, keep using yourlimb better?
And also, is the technologyavailable and the state of
advancement, is it runningparallel to, let's say,
technology for other kinds ofadaptations and other sports?

(56:08):
Where do you think we are withthe, uh, with this sort of state
of technology?
Is it, is it where you want itto be?

Craig (56:17):
It is, it is in a really good place.
It's just, it can go a lotfurther.
I think, I was really fortunatewhen I started.
Kind of climbing as an amputeeclimber.
My prosthetist helped me make afoot that I could climb with.
We made it out of titanium andit worked.
It would burn through rubberpretty quickly.
So I would, I couldn't like do alot of different routes on it.

(56:38):
It would, it would have to beresold and fixed.
But then I started working withEvolve around that same time,
and Evolve actually madesomething called the EAF, which
is the Evolve Adaptive Foot, andwe were able to help design,
help on the design of that, um,there were several people
involved with that who, we allkind of like traded ideas back
and forth, and then did R& Dwith them, you know, they would

(57:00):
make it, we would break it, thatkind of a thing, and so that was
really, you know, Kind of likethis big jump forward for leg
amputees because now all of asudden you had this foot That
you could buy online.
You didn't have to haveinsurance to get it It costs so
the first foot that I wore And Iactually still wear is this foot
that it costs twelve hundreddollars That the the you're

(57:20):
buying the inner foot piece thatactually can goes on to the leg
my prosthetic.
So that's pretty expensive,right?
And I was fortunate enough to,at the time when I was
competing, the company and Iworked together, TRS, um, who
are in Boulder, uh, and I worktogether, still work together to
this day.
Um, they were super helpful withme getting the foot and being

(57:40):
able to really use it a lot.
but then Evolve was like, that'spretty expensive.
Like, is that a.
Barrier.
And I said, that is the biggestbarrier.
Um, you know, you need generallytwo feet.
So you're talking a lot of moneyand EF came along because you've
all said, we will make thisthing.
And make it affordable andavailable to anyone.

(58:02):
And so now you can go to evolveswebsite, buy the foot online.
They'll ship it to your houseand you can go climbing the next
day.
It's pretty amazing.
And you're talking a price pointof 200 as opposed to 1, 200.
So that kind of.
Technology jump was huge.
Now I feel like we're at, likehand amputees.
It's a bit harder for them.
I feel like they're it's thechallenges.

(58:23):
There are pretty hard to getsomething that will work in a
lot of different realms.
You know, plastic is going toclimb a certain way.
Granite cracks, whatever it is.
So it's a lot harder to get ahand that will fit into these
things.
Across the board.
The E.
A.
F.
allows you to basically climb alarge quantity of different

(58:44):
kinds of rock.
It doesn't really matter.
we could definitely fine tunethat into like something that's
more aggressive and downturnedfor like steep climbing, but,
Right now.
We're not, we're not there.
It would be cool to go there.
I've worked.
I've been really fortunate towork on like, um, some kind of
like R and D projects.

(59:04):
Um, Arc'teryx and I have been,uh, I've been a part of them for
15 years and they're an amazingsponsor for me where they have
put money into like R and D forlike how we can make a foot that
moves and pushes and does allthese cool things.
But it's, it's in a good spot.
It, I feel like it could alwaysgo further and better.

(59:25):
and that just comes down to likepeople taking the time to do it
and spending the money to get itdone.

Kush (59:31):
you said earlier, Craig.
About, the timing of it all,like when you got hurt, maybe
some of these things were comingtogether, but it seems like you
also helped shape the reality.
You helped it take, help take itforward and you were able to
find these collaborators, somaybe a little hat tip to some

(59:54):
of our climbing companies whoare helping, uh, but then, yeah,
you.
You along with others kind oftook what was out there and then
you took it further ahead to, tobring, uh, these, these
technologies to other people inclimbing who could use, use
these things.

(01:00:14):
now talking a little bit aboutshifting into what you do every
day for work and how you havebeen able to inspire, coach,
train, help others.
into either furthering theirexisting climbing, but even
introduce, I believe, nonclimbers to the sport of

(01:00:37):
climbing.

Craig (01:00:38):
Yes.

Kush (01:00:39):
What I want to understand here to start off is.
Let's say somebody got hurt in anon climbing way, you know, they
had maybe a shop accident andnow they, their life has changed
forever.
How did that person find theirway to you?

(01:00:59):
And is it Are you helping peoplelearn to climb who already have
expressed an interest inclimbing?
Maybe they have a bit of priorexperience?
Or are these people who are notoutdoorsy, they don't climb, but
somehow they have been convincedto give climbing a chance?

(01:01:22):
a chance to help reshape theirvision and the possibilities,
maybe in a way that it has alsoreshaped your life.

Craig (01:01:35):
Yeah.
And it's, it's a combination of.
things.
to, to answer the first part,um, they can, they can get to me
lots of different ways.
They can either just Google myname and that'll get them to my
website, which is justCraigDMartino.
com.
They can go, to the nonprofitthat we work with, which is
called Adaptive Adventures.

(01:01:56):
And that's justAdaptiveAdventures.
org.
That will get them to me aswell.
probably I would say 70%, 75% ofthe people that we work with are
non climbers before theiraccidents.
And so through one way or theother, they are either, um, so
we do a lot of work with, um,veterans with disabilities.

(01:02:18):
So we work with the va.
The, the, the nonprofit we workwith, um, has a va, they get an
adaptive sport grant each year,and then they allow.
Me and my wife Cindy to shapeand build their climbing program
for them.
So we go all over the countryAnd Puerto Rico and Hawaii and
we get new veterans withdisabilities.

(01:02:38):
So and any disability we'retalking PTSD to fully in a
wheelchair So anything inbetween so we can get anyone
climbing and so they'll come outWe'll usually start in a gym.
And so we're just introducingthem to you Okay, this is what
climbing is.
This is like what it can showyou in your body and how this is

(01:03:00):
how you move with your newdisability.
but what I tell them first isI'm here to just make you a
climber.
Once we do that, we will figureout the adaptive piece.
So let's not focus on theadaptive piece, which is what
you've been focusing on.
which is why you're with me.
So we're here to get out of thatcycle.
So we want to learn how to be aclimber, how to move as a

(01:03:22):
climber, how to meet thecommunity of climbing, which is
amazing, right?
And so show them this isclimbing.
This is the community.
And now let's get to it.
Keep doing that.
And so what we generally do iswe'll set it up as like they'll
come.
It's not a one off.
We'll try to set up a programfor them.
So, like, just like, say, herein Denver and in the in the

(01:03:44):
front range area of Colorado, wehave these different community
nights all up and down the frontrange.
So they can come out.
They can get a discounted daypass at the gym, which will
include their harness and shoes.
And then they come in with this.
Me and we teach them the basicsof climbing with the intention
of them, hopefully repeating itwith us and then moving them

(01:04:07):
outside.
So we start them indoors andthen we move them to the natural
world outside because.
Usually they're like, Oh, indoorclimbing is really cool.
And then I'm always like, butonce you go outside, you're only
going to want to be there.
So then we kind of take themoutside, show them what that's
like.
And then they'll come and we'lldo those programs maybe once a

(01:04:29):
month where we're outdoors withthem with different groups all
over the place.
but the idea is to get them kindof hooked with the community
piece and the, uh, The feelingof movement piece, that will
hopefully change the directionof their, of whatever cycle
they're in.
Hopefully we're breaking thatcycle and helping them to focus
on a better quality of lifeinstead of just like existing

(01:04:50):
within this thing that they,they have gotten to after this
traumatic event, whatever thatevent was.
that other percentage that'sleft, whatever that is, at the
end of the day, are climbers whogot hurt.
yesterday evening I worked withan individual, he was a very
strong comp climber, um, andthen he was in a car accident.
And so he is now in awheelchair, a lot of paralysis

(01:05:13):
really got hurt pretty badly.
the accident is pretty new.
It's, he's probably only threemonths out from the accident.
So yesterday in the gym,climbing gym, um, in Denver, he
was, using something we call aneasy seat, which is a, uh, seat
that takes the place of hiswheelchair.
And he does assisted pull ups onthis bar that we manufacture.
And so this dude.

(01:05:34):
Out of his wheelchair, climbs upthe, uh, you know, a 42 foot
wall and movement Englewood.
And, and it's the first timehe's out of his chair again.
it's.
Amazingly powerful stuff forindividuals and for me to see
it's like that's crazy.
and yet you see that glimmer,that spark that we get where
you're like, Oh, this is cool.
Like, I want to keep doing this.

(01:05:55):
And he was, he's noncommunicative.
He's just, he does fist bumpsand hand signals.
And so he just came down andfist bumped me, gave me the hang
loose and his sister said, Oh,he's psyched.
So I was like, That's why wewant to do this.
That's like, you can takesomeone on this path and just
redirect and that's what we'redoing is we're helping them

(01:06:16):
redirect and rediscover.
yes, your life's going to bedifferent.
Absolutely.
I'm not going to lie about that,but it doesn't have to be bad.
It can be different.
And that's just different.
And it's, we just have to learnto embrace that difference and
then move forward with itinstead of just like focusing so
much on the negative of like,oh, shoot, I can't do this.

(01:06:36):
I can't do that.
It's like, let's get out of thatcycle and let's get into a more
positive cycle.
And that's, that's what we'redoing.
The natural world embraces that,like the change is inevitable.
So just even as we all age,right, we all are changing all
the time, right?
We're addressing and figuringout and evolving with it.
Um, but if you fight it, it's somuch harder.

(01:06:57):
It's like, you're not going tochange it.
Like we can't change gettingolder.
It's just, that's the way it is.
And so you have to embrace that.
And that's trauma is verysimilar to that.
It's like this, the agingprocess and trauma have a lot in
common in that, right?
Things are breaking down.
And so you're like in this stateof like maintenance of, Oh God,

(01:07:17):
I just want to be able to keepdoing what I'm doing.
So what do I need to do to dothat?
And that's, that's what peoplelike me are for is to say, Oh,
here's a fun way to do that.
You can be climbing and enjoyingyourself and in this amazing
world.
So it's all about redirection,right?
See something different.
I think the thing, and I am, I'malways awed by this is.

(01:07:38):
is being in this world is, issuch a perspective builder.
it's really easy.
I think for anyone to just kindof like, kind of get stuck with
what's happening to you and you,and you're just kind of spinning
your wheels, you know, you'renot, you're not going backwards.
You're not going forward.
You're just kind of spinning.
And, I was doing that.

(01:07:58):
I was, when I came back toclimbing, it was amazing and fun
and exciting, but then I waslike, you know, what am I doing?
Like, am I actually doing anygood with this?
And like, I went through thisthing, what am I doing?
And I was really fortunate in, Icame back from Yosemite, um,
after my first trip there withHans and a good friend of mine,

(01:08:20):
Timmy O'Neill contacted me andsaid, Hey man, I'm, I'm taking
some, um, Veterans withdisabilities climbing and
they're missing their legs andhe's like, I want you to come in
and help us, uh, down in Eldo.
And I was like, dude, I don't, Idon't want to do that.
I was like, that's not my thing,man.
And he's like, yeah, it is.
I'll see you Saturday.
And he just kind of hung up onme and I'm like, damn it.

(01:08:42):
So that, that Saturday I'm downin Boulder.
I meet him and it turned out tobe the best day ever.
ever.
It was these, they were allyounger than me.
They were freaking hysterical.
They were so flippant about justeverything.
And one guy was missing his leg,like me, one guy was above the

(01:09:02):
knee.
And I think the other guy wasmissing, Oh, he was missing his
leg, like me as well.
So two, two, like me and onebigger amputation.
Um, but just like funny as hell,like just don't, they were just
having the best time.
They were like, this is bananas.
How weird this is, but like.
This is kind of cool.
And I left that day with thisnew perspective of like, Oh my

(01:09:26):
God.
Like there, there are morepeople like me.
They just need to understandthat we can be working together
and helping each other movingforward.
And so it's given me thisperspective shift of it's not
just like the negative thathappened to me.
I also see all this positive allthe time.
It's reinforced every time Iwork with someone that

(01:09:47):
individual last night, you know,I've been doing this a long
time.
He rolled in and you, youimmediately know this person
he's, you know, any new climber,right?
They're nervous.
They don't know what to expect.
He was a climber before.
So he's trying to navigate this.
I used to do this really well.
Now I'm in a wheelchair, likewhat the hell is happening?

(01:10:07):
is this even something I want todo?
And.
Then you have me taking him outon the floor.
We're climbing 10 minutes later.
He's up in the air 40 feet.
It's like, damn, that'spowerful.
And I try, I think that I getthat perspective reinforced
every time I do programs.
And so I'm just like, now it'sfunny.

(01:10:27):
Now I kind of crave it.
it's like a drug where you'rejust like, damn, you see the
power in it and you just want tobe able to, Funnel that to a lot
of, as many people who need it.
And so I feel like I get thatjust on a repeated basis.
And it's, it fuels my desire tokeep climbing.
It fuels my desire to build thecommunity and folks kind of

(01:10:47):
navigate what they're, whatthey're navigating.

Kush (01:10:50):
Thanks for that thoughtful response.
I can see how life affirming andhow almost addictive that,
feeling of, delight is when yousee somebody Who's been touched
like that.
besides the work that youdirectly do with the, the
adaptive community, you know,you are out there working with

(01:11:13):
them in person.
I think you also have a side gigas a, uh, accomplished public
speaker.
You go and, inspire others.
You give talks, et cetera, toall kinds of audiences.
And I think that, Hey, listen,if I was in one of your talks.
There would be some very clearmessages and stories I would get

(01:11:35):
out.
I would leave the talk inspiredand whatnot.
But I'm just wondering if youever, if there has been feedback
or audience responses in some ofthese talks, which has actually
surprised you and you were like,Wait, I gave the story and you
know, I expect people to reactin a certain way, but this
person got impacted and came upwith this reaction that, I did

(01:12:00):
not expect

Craig (01:12:01):
that is a very, astute observation on your part.
that happens.
I won't say every time I speak,but I would say 90 percent of
the time I'll always stickaround you know, I always open
myself up and say, if you wantto come up and speak about
something, or you have aquestion, an open book, they'll
come up with just like, you Yousaid this and then and then

(01:12:24):
they'll they'll repeat somethingback to me that I said and I'm
thinking I don't think I Saidthat like did I say that I don't
remember saying that but like,okay They it's what they hear
and internalize and then thatgets brought into the fabric of
whatever they're dealing withAnd then you have to like kind
of listen To kind of untanglethat, uh, just kind of where

(01:12:45):
they're coming from, it'll justbe like a trauma that happened
to them for whatever reason.
And they're dealing with it, orthey just want to know that
they're not the first person todeal with what they're dealing
with.
And so they'll, they'll speak tome and say, you know, I have
like, I broke my back or I did,I broke my neck as well.
And, and they just want to knowthat they're not the only person

(01:13:06):
dealing with it.
And I always tell people like.
Anything you're dealing with,you're not the first, right?
Like, someone else has dealtwith it, someone else has
probably figured out how to dealwith it well, and you should
find that person, search thatout.
And so usually, if they're atone of my talks, that's what
they're doing.
They're trying to figure outwhat's going on.
And I end up getting, If I speakin a climbing gym, I get like

(01:13:30):
many new, participants that way,because they'll come in as a
disabled person thinking, Ican't rock climb that that's
insane.
Um, and so they'll come to thetalk and then they're like, I
think maybe I can rock climb andI should go talk to that guy
over there.
And so I get new, I get newparticipants that way, which is
awesome.
But I do also get every now andagain, and I'll get something

(01:13:52):
where it's just a, it's atrauma.
Like I've never heard like it'llbe something just a very
different kind of trauma whereI'm like damn And so then that
person will want to unpack partsof that with me and and I'll do
that And then when I speak Ijust spoke at a kid's school
Which those are usuallyhysterical because if I open it

(01:14:14):
up to questions They'll, theyask the most just weird, funny
questions like, I mean, justlike, did it hurt when you cut
your leg off or did it hurt whenyou fell off the cliff?
And like, I had, I get thatquestion a lot.
And then they're like, does yourleg, does your leg get itchy?
Does it, can I punch your leg?
Can I kick your leg?
It's like, They have no filter,which is fantastic, and they

(01:14:39):
just want to ask and know.
And so I love those interactionsas well.
They don't care so much aboutthe trauma or the climb.
They're just like, whatever,dude, you're a climber.
I don't care.
I want to know.
I did have a kid literally askme if he could kick me in the
leg.
And I was like, you can, butit's a metal leg.
It's going to hurt you, not me.
And he kicked it and it hurt.
That was a little life lesson,right?

(01:15:00):
So I do feel like it is, it isalways interesting what people
hear you say, um, even with thispodcast, someone will listen to
this and they're going toprocess it a particular way and
go, he said this, and it's like,maybe, but like, that's how
they're processing that throughinto the podcast.
The fabric of their life.
And that's okay.
That's how we all do it.

(01:15:20):
So it's just really interestingto see it happen and be a part
of it and try to untangle itthen.
So yeah, it happens.
That's a good question.

Kush (01:15:29):
Actually, this part of the question also I think hit me in
a surprising way.
I did not I didn't expect thisto be part of the answer about
how non adults kids react toadaptive athlete.
You in this case, and howevocative that little story is

(01:15:53):
about that kid wanting to, uh,grapple with your leg and

Craig (01:15:56):
wanted to like, you know, uh, feel.
Right.
the senses Exactly.
kids have a beautiful way ofjust cutting through things, you
know, not letting bogged downby, um, yeah, all the, baggage
that right.
Exactly.
That's societal.
That's societal buffer that weall have.
They don't have that yet.
They're just like, I want toknow about this.

(01:16:18):
And then they just ask and it'syeah.
So it's, it's a wonderful thingfor sure.

Kush (01:16:23):
Great.
You got hurt and, you know, youhad a family already by the time
you got hurt.
And when something like thishappens, it.
impacts not just you, butimpacts on family.
it sounds like your family hasbeen right there with you.
And they have also used thisevent as a positive force.

(01:16:44):
You mentioned your wife, Cindy,partners with you, or maybe on
her own as well.
also does work With climbers andwith the adaptive community, I'm
wondering any non obvious thingsthat have transformed her as
well, besides obviously just thelife giving nature of the work

(01:17:07):
she's doing.
If I was to ask her, Cindy, youknow, when you started doing
this thing you know, many moonsago, would you know that this
would have changed your life inthis beautiful unexpected

Craig (01:17:20):
yeah.
I think she would, I think shewould say probably similar to
What I say is like, I wouldn't,wouldn't want to do it again.
Right?
Like I wouldn't ever say, yeah,let's, let's go ahead and rewind
and do that again.
But I think she would say, Iwouldn't change it now.
you know, there are, there'sobvious, there's always pieces
and parts that you would love tonot have, you know, I, Me

(01:17:42):
personally, I don't want thechronic pain.
I don't want the paralysis.
I don't want the trouble that Iget from the fusions and
amputations, but, and, and forher watching all that, you know,
she is, we've been together along time and she has seen it
all.
So she would tell you, I'm sureI, she doesn't like to see me

(01:18:03):
suffer.
And, and there is a certainlevel of suffering that is
always, It just comes part andparcel with trauma, right?
That's just the way that is.
Um, so she would probably saythat would be nice to not have
that, but we wouldn't, eitherone, I think, change where it's
taken us.
Um, because would I have gottento this place in my life?

(01:18:26):
I don't know.
Don't think I would have.
I think I would have had a finelife.
It would have been great.
We would have raised our kidstogether and done our thing, but
I don't think we would have the,um, the depth and the richness
that we have now, which isreally, pretty powerful.
I think, you know, for ourmarriage, for our relationship
with our kids, with, forrelationships with the world,

(01:18:46):
that's the perk that you cannever.
Kind of measure.
And you also can't ever reallyplan and predict it.
It's it just it's either goingto happen or it's not.
And I think for us, we've beenreally fortunate that it has
happened.
I think she would tell you thatlike wouldn't do it again, but
also wouldn't.
Change it now.
It's, it's become a very goodthing for us.

(01:19:07):
even with all the negative thatgoes with it, it's still a very
positive force, uh, for us and,and for our family.
And so, I think that, That's apowerful thing to, to, to have
and to, to be able to be a partof.
So I think that's, we both seeand appreciate that, on
different levels, on differentdays.

(01:19:28):
But you know, that's somethingthat I think she would agree
with pretty wholeheartedly.

Kush (01:19:33):
What about your kids as well?
Just, yeah, one, if you cansummarize like how I think your
kids grew up with having a dadwho's gone through event, you
know, and who looks and in someways, also deals with the
routine of every life differentthan Sure.

(01:19:54):
adults.
Do you think this has also beena positive?
change or a life giving kind ofa force

Craig (01:20:04):
I think what done with them and I see this in them a
lot because they've They'vegrown into just wonderful adults
Our daughter was four when I gothurt and kind of remembers me
Before she's like I havememories like glimmers of you
before you got hurt Our son wastwo so he doesn't really
remember me beforehand.

(01:20:25):
What I've seen them do is is Youas they've grown up, they've
been exposed number one to theclimbing community, which is, as
you said before, like kind ofthe outlier community anyway.
So they, they understand thatlike not everybody.
Is like a normal nine to fiveperson, right?
You, we have friends who live incars and we have friends who
just travel.

(01:20:45):
And so they've seen that.
And then when I got hurt and,and the years after, I think
they, their level of empathy forothers, I see in them is.
amazing.
I'm sure a lot of that is just,that's their nature.
But also I think that comes fromseeing what I went through and
what's, what Cindy and I havegone through together, where

(01:21:07):
they go, there's a lot that hadto be dealt with and, and he
still deals with, but also I seethem then reflect that to
others.
They, they actually will assistus in, in.
Every now and again, um, our sonwill actually went with us to
Hawaii.
We did like an outdoor day withthe veterans there.
And so we needed a lot of handsand they've both been climbers
their whole life.

(01:21:27):
So they're at will actuallyworks in a climbing gym.
And so he, he is like, I'mwatching him work with these
individuals who, you know, manyyears older than him, disabled
in one form or the other.
And he just jumps right in.
He's, he's like comfortableengaging.
And our daughter is the sameway.
She's comfortable speaking andteaching and showing.
And I think that comes from thembeing around this their whole

(01:21:50):
life and just seeing, this ishow my mom and dad do it.
Um, I'm sure they get like, Ialways joke with my wife.
Like I'm sure our son is tiredof people telling him.
That they know us at the gym,you know, like you don't want
your, you don't want to knowyour parents that well.
You just, you know, your parentsare out there, but like there,

(01:22:11):
you want separation when you'rein your twenties.
someone will text me and belike, Oh, I saw your son and I
told him I know you.
And I'm like, ah, he probablyloved that.
It's like, it's like everybodywants a little bit of
separation, but I think now asthey become like these, adults.
Um, I see the emp Growing up ina, in a world of like, you see

(01:22:34):
people who are just wrecked andstill have a amazing quality of
life and are happy and fulfilledand leading really valuable
lives, um, with spouses, youknow, all the, all the things
that we all want, but like, youget to see this whole another
facet of the, the adaptive worldrolled into all of that.
And I think that affects their,you know, How they deal with

(01:22:56):
people in life in general.

Kush (01:22:58):
Your kids seem very intelligent and also perceptive
all rounded.
I'm wondering, did you just getlucky that your kids reacted
and, took on this, life changein this best way possible in

(01:23:21):
helping them develop theseskills, or were there also some
things you and your wife didmore proactively?
to help them understand whatwent on and how can, how this
can be a, uh, this can besomething that allows them now
to just you know, be,

Craig (01:23:44):
We were always very honest with them, growing up
when they were, if they hadquestions about what I have to
deal with, how I have to dealwith it.
They have seen me throughsurgeries.
They've seen, you know,everything.
They've seen me when I'm really,you know, bad, like low after
surgeries, things like that,where the recovery arc is very

(01:24:04):
slow.
a lot of it is luck, you know,that they came into this world
they're leaning that wayalready, and then we just kind
of help navigate that with themand guide them through that.
They obviously were kids.
They same trials andtribulations every kid has grown
up, but I do feel like, theywere able to see this piece that

(01:24:27):
maybe a lot of people don't getto see.
And that is, you know, theadaptive side of like, after
trauma, what does that look likelong term because they see it
every day or whenever they'rehere.
and I think that affects how youlook at things, because it, it,
it still affects how I look atthings because like I said, it,
it's a really good perspectivebuilder.
And I think that they.

(01:24:47):
They have a very uniqueperspective because they got to
see not only me, but they alsosaw how Cindy navigated it.
And then they also see how theparticipants we work with.
Navigate their own thing and sothey're able to see all these
different things in in real lifein real time And then how does
that affect them going forward?

(01:25:08):
And and I think that some ofthat's left but then also some
of that is I think it's probablyjust in the in them already That
maybe just brought it to thesurface a little quicker maybe
Because they ask questions,right?
They always ask they're they'reThey're smart.
Like you said, they're veryintelligent people.
So they'll have questions like,why do you have to do this?
And how does this work?
And why does that happen?

(01:25:29):
And, um, and like, uh, they'rethe only people that I'm going
to like a completely open bookto, like where I'll tell them
anything they ask.
Um, obviously when I'm, youknow, meeting in public space,
you know, you have that line oflike, I'll share up to here, but
then that's the rest of that'sgoing to be private.
And with your kids, you're justan open book or I am, I should
say.
And same with Cindy, you know,we just, we're very open and

(01:25:50):
honest with them.
Like.
This is, this is what'shappening.
This is a challenge and this iswhat we're doing with it.
So I think they've been able tosee that as well.
So I think that all kind offactors into how they've turned
out in the world and, and maybewhere they're going to end up in
the world too.
I don't know where that's goingto be, but you know, it's just
fun to watch that all change andevolve as, as they, as they

(01:26:12):
grow.

Kush (01:26:13):
Yes, they took that one character building event came
out, so much better for itcoming towards the end of our,
uh, conversation here, Craig, Iwanted to ask you, is there a
particular mantra or philosophythat, um, that you You live by
that keeps you focused and, uh,driven.

Craig (01:26:36):
So I signed my emails.
I have no idea who said thisfirst.
Um, I wish I knew, uh, but itsays life is 10 percent
circumstance and 90 percent myreaction.
to those circumstances.
And I think that is, I thinkI've always been geared that
way, you know, where I've been aglass is half full kind of a
person my whole life probably.

(01:26:57):
But I think after gettinginjured and then as I've gotten
older, I think it makes mereally appreciate that and say,
Yeah.
you know what, this particularthing sucks, whatever that is.
how am I going to react to it?
Am I going to just lose my, Mindand just, you know, go down the
rabbit hole or am I going tojust okay, I'm going to move

(01:27:20):
away from this and I've alwaystold people like if you're
moving and you're moving awayfrom the trauma.
That's a positive thing.
If you're just spinning andstaying in that same spot, then
that becomes what defines you.
And, and I don't think any of uswant that negative thing or one
thing to define who we are as ahuman, because in reality, it's

(01:27:40):
just like a blip in the path.
I mean, if you lay out your lifein a linear line, that incident
is one big bump, right?
But it's like, it's not my wholeLife So how I react to that is
is very important.
And, and I, Kind of then putthat into everything, how I
interface with people, thepublic, the, my family, my wife,

(01:28:01):
it, it, those, that reaction isvery valuable and, and I can, I
get to control that.
Um, that's one of those thingsthat we do have control over.
And um, I think that if you.
Geared a certain way.
You're going to do better.
And you know, so if you'reconstantly focused on negative,
obviously that's where you'regoing to be me.

(01:28:23):
It's like, I want to take thatcircumstance and let my reaction
be a positive spin on that.
Whatever that's going to be.
It works.
99 percent of the time, it doesnot always work as, and I think
everyone knows that, right?
In life, you don't always bounceinto the positive, um, sometimes
negative, and even then, youhave to react a particular way,

(01:28:45):
and so, that reaction is goingto dictate where you go It's,
it's like, you're going to haveto deal with the negative, how
are you going to react to it?
And so, for me, it's, I cancontrol that.
It's kind of comforting to me toknow that, okay, this, I can
react to this a particular waythat's going to either help it
or hurt it.
What's that going to look like?
So I think that comes with age.

(01:29:05):
I do.
That's one of the positives ofgetting older is like, have the
ability and perspective to like,step back a little bit and be
like, Oh, Okay, what is actuallyhappening here and like, how is
this going to work as opposed tojust like, you know, firing off
and just usually it isn't theright thing to do.
So it's, it's nice to be able tohave that maturity to sit back

(01:29:27):
and say, okay, how am I going toreact to this now?
And then move forward with that.
So that's been a good one forme.

Kush (01:29:34):
90 percent reaction.
Yeah.
Life is all about how we dealwith what we are, confronted
with every moment.
You have obviously reacted in away that.
is inspiring Craig, but when youare out there again, you know,
meeting many people out therewho may not have had such a
catalyst in their lives.
Any message to them and how theycan react better to, uh, the day

(01:30:01):
to day and use that to theiradvantage

Craig (01:30:04):
I think a catalyst can come in any form.
It can be big.
It can be small.
Um, I don't, people always thinklike, well, you had the, like,
and I've had this conversationwith people when I've done
speaking things is they're like,you had this big event and then
you recovered really well.
And now you're, you, you moveforward.
And I'm like, yes and no.
Yes.

(01:30:25):
I had a big event.
I only, I recovered to an extentand you know, I had to deal with
a lot of things for the rest ofmy life, but it is.
Is that catalyst?
Yes, that was a big event.
It doesn't have to be fallingoff a cliff because you know,
everyone's going to fall offtheir own cliff, whatever that
is.
It's going to be, it could beemotional.
It could be, you know, it couldbe heavy trauma, but it's, it

(01:30:48):
still boils down to, okay, whatare you going to do with that
catalyst?
And, and are you going to use itto move you forward?
Are you going to use it to moveyou into the negative?
and I think they come in allshapes and forms.
I think you have to be willingto be flexible and change
because we don't, it doesn'tcome the way you think it's
going to come.
I think I'm a testament to that.

(01:31:09):
I didn't, you know, if you askedme 30 years ago, what I wanted
to do, did I want to be a proclimber and, and teach how climb
and, and.
Do that.
I would have said yes, but thenif you said, well, you're going
to get dropped off of a clifffirst, then I'd been like, no, I
never mind, you know?
So it's like the catalyst comein all different shapes and
forms.
And it's usually not the waycome.

(01:31:29):
It's.
It's sneaks up on you.
And so I think you have to beopen to that and, and looking
for it.
And, and that is what ends upmoving you then forward.

Kush (01:31:39):
Craig.
That profound.
I was not expecting, I'mabsorbing that.
And I think others will as well,where one has to be available to
catalyzed, to informed, to be,shaken up, to be shaken up out

(01:32:00):
of.
Whatever to be shaken out of.
And it's like, when go amassage, you have to, you know,
you have to relax your muscles.
If you don't relax your muscles,then the chiropractor or the
massage therapist do their job.
So you have to be able to bewilling to be soft and
malleable.
Great.

(01:32:20):
Couple of final, final funquestions.
What has been the best hundreddollars you've spent recently?
be a different amount.
Oh, buying a plane ticket toSpain with my wife.
Yeah.
Go climbing.
It was more than a hundreddollars though.

(01:32:42):
I was gonna say you will have tolet me on your, uh, your, plane
buying, definitely.
Definitely more than a hundred,but it that was like the best
money spent.
So yeah, lately that's the best.
Amazing.
Yeah.
Glad you had a delightful timein Spain as, as most of us would

(01:33:04):
on a climbing trip, escapingthe, uh, the cold in Colorado.
what is a meal that you couldeat every day?
uh, pasta.
I could, I'm, I'm Italian.
I grew up in a Italian familyand I could do that.
I could do that every day.
I don't think I would ever gettired.

(01:33:25):
Right.
We do, we do.
Actually, every Christmas, uh,my wife makes, I grew up, my mom
made homemade raviolis everyChristmas, and so my wife kind
of took that on as when the kidswere little, and so we make,
they make, I just kind of help alittle bit, uh, she'll make the
dough, she'll make the meat, andit's, yeah, I could eat, again,

(01:33:46):
like, there's so many differentkinds of pasta, that's why I've,
I've Find it easy to say I couldeat that pretty much every day.
I love it.
Homemade pasta, nothing better.
Craig, um, if There was onemessage you could leave on a
giant billboard in a highway,would that Just that it's, this

(01:34:08):
is all fluid.
It's all changing.
Um, don't get stuck on rightnow.
Like whatever it is, good orbad.
It's, it's a fluid situation.
And that's what I, I tellpeople, I tell myself that all
the time, like good or bad.
Like if you've just climbed ElCap, that's awesome.
It's fluid and going to change.
If you are laying in bed inchronic pain, that's awesome.

(01:34:29):
That's going to change as well.
It's, it's always fluid andmoving.
And as long as you can embracethat, you're going to do fine.
Just realize that it is not therest of your life.
It's just, it's just today.
So like deal with it, moveforward because it's going to
change tomorrow.
Sure.
Yeah.
that, that that is again, uh,going down, uh, to the wisdom

(01:34:53):
you Embrace present uh,beautiful Craig.
It's been a delightful Thank youso joining us Thank you for
having me.
It's been, been my pleasure Wow.

(01:35:14):
What a journey.
I instead of buzzing from thischat with Greg.
After his life alteringaccident, Craig's determination
to return to climbing, not justas a participant, but as a
competitor.
Is unreal.
It speaks volumes about histrend and resilience.
And his victories in adaptiveclimbing competitions are a

(01:35:36):
powerful Testament to the humanspirits ability.
To overcome any obstacle.
But what truly sets Craig apartis his passion for giving back.
He has used his experience toinspire an.
Empower others.
Sharing the joy of climbing withveterans and individuals with
disabilities.

(01:35:57):
Proving that allegation incommunity.
Anything is possible.
There are so many things of howthis colonization that I
cherish.
Being open to change.
Having growth mindset.
Always being present.
But also, always lookingforward.
I loved his ending life mantra.

(01:36:17):
10% circumstance.
90% reaction to that.
Yes, it does all about what wedo with what life throws at us.
I'm not a parent.
Well, I have Roger, my littlepooch.
Anyhow.
So Barfield lessons also forraising a family.
You can follow Craig'sadventures on his Insta at Creek

(01:36:41):
Dem C R a I G D E M.
And if you want to work with himat the non-profit.
Adaptive adventures.org.
Thank you again for joining uson each athlete.
Creeks story is a reminder thatthe path to achieving our dreams
is rarely straightforward.

(01:37:03):
It's about embracing thedetours.
Adapting to change.
And finding strengths andpassions.
MI Craig's journey motivates youto push your boundaries.
Find joy in movement.
And never stop chasing thosedreams.
Until next time.

(01:37:24):
Get outside, enjoy the spring,read the.
Stay adventurous.
Stay healthy.
And stages.
Plus.

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#21 Craig DeMartino - The Unexpected Gifts of Adversity, How Climbing Became a Catalyst for Healing and Empowerment

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#21 Craig DeMartino - The Unexpected Gifts of Adversity, How Climbing Became a Catalyst for Healing and Empowerment