"The Barbershop": Breaking Silence on Prostate Health

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Welcome to "The Barbershop", where real men have real conversations - uncut, unfiltered and unapologetically honest. It's the spot in our Agile Always podcast where we pull up a chair, talk life, health, and everything in-between, from the deeply personal to the universally important. 

Pat Riley once said, "You have to be an active participant in your own rescue." These words perfectly capture the urgent message at the heart of this powerful episode of Officially Fenner/Agile Alway's new "Barbershop" segment, where host Rudy brings authentic men's health conversations out of the barbershop and into the open.

Rudy, joined by his brother Greg (a prostate cancer survivor turned advocate) and son-in-law David (representing a younger perspective), this multigenerational discussion tackles the staggering reality that 80% of men who live to 80 will develop prostate cancer—with even higher rates among African American men. Yet countless men avoid the simple PSA blood test that could save their lives.

The trio explores the complex reasons behind men's reluctance to seek medical care: historical distrust of the healthcare system, the masculine tendency to "tough it out," and fears about procedures and potential sexual dysfunction. With remarkable candor, they share personal experiences that illuminate how early detection dramatically improves both outcomes and treatment options.

Family history emerges as a crucial but often overlooked factor. As Greg powerfully states, "If you have had prostate cancer and you have a son, you're putting his life at risk not telling him." The conversation moves beyond detection to treatment decisions, with insights on everything from "active surveillance" (which Greg compares to "a stick of dynamite with a fuse") to radiation therapies and surgical options.

Whether you're approaching 40 or well beyond, this conversation could literally save your life or the life of someone you love. Listen, learn, and become an active participant in your own health journey. What's your PSA number?

Thank you for spending time with us today! We hope you enjoyed our conversation, related to something we said, and learned something new along the way.

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A special thanks goes to @yancylott for producing, editing, and creating the music for our podcasts!
xo,
Robin & Rudy

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Episode Transcript

Intro (00:00):
W"Officially Fenner, with your hosts, Robin and Rudy,
a podcast about family, wherewe live, love and laugh along
the way.
All right, all right, welcomeeverybody to the Officially
Fenner Agile Always podcast.
This is gonna be weird becauseyou are used to me chiming in
behind a female voice.

(00:21):
Robin had a crazy idea.
She said you know you'redealing with an issue here that
you guys talk about in thebarbershop.
Light bulb came on.
She said you need to do asubset of an Officially Fenner
podcast called "he Barbershop,and you need to get your guys in

(00:41):
here and you need to do whatyou all do at the barbershop,
because she's heard stories andonce or twice she's dipped in
and seen and heard.
So this topic this morning isprostate health.
I remember when I was in my 30'srange.
I remember saying what old guystalked about and well, I guess

(01:04):
I'm an old guy because this isone of the things we talk about.
I I felt like we needed tobring some people in, because
I'm not enough alone to holdthis topic up, and I had
somebody who was, I consider,one of like the rescue rangers
on this topic.
My brother, Greg Fenner isjoining us and Greg has become
for me, a prostate healthadvocate, and he has saved many

(01:27):
of our lives and discussions andawareness and I wanted to bring
him in.
And I wanted to bring in myson-in-law, David Lottahall,
because we don't need a timewhen it's just old people
sitting around talking.
We need some younger people whocan reinvigorate our thinking
and our blood and our energy,and David also has a perspective
that's a little different.

(01:47):
So welcome David, welcomeGregory.

Greg Fenner (01:50):
Thank you, good to be here.
Thank you.

Rudy Fenner (01:52):
This is going to be crazy, and so this is our
normal conversation.
Let me just make sure you allunderstand this will be
free-flowing.
This is an incredibly organicpodcast because these are
conversations that we reallyhave.
We've been talking about thisstuff for years, so we're just
putting on on on with recordingand capturing what normally goes
on in our lives.
We're incredibly blessed.
These are incredibly, brilliantmen that I live around and they

(02:16):
help me be who I am.
This was amazing because wetalk, a lot of our time is spent
with sports and it's so mindblowing to me.
I really believe that sports arelike a metaphor for life and if
you pay attention, there's lotsof things about life you can
learn, and I just heard there'sa lot of activity in the NBA and
I heard a quote from Pat Rileythat is so appropriate to launch

(02:37):
us today.
Here's one of his favoritequotes - and one of, I think
(Jimmy) Haslam, said this.
He said "you have to be anactive participant in your own
rescue and I said, dang, I getto write that down.
That is so incrediblyappropriate when we talk about
prostate health, because that'sreally that's really what this

(02:58):
is all about is just many, manypeople that I know unfortunately
have lost their lives because,to a certain degree, they have
not participated.
When they decided toparticipate in prostate health,
it was a point where it was toolate.
So both Greg and David, I wantto just toss this to you guys

(03:20):
and I'll call that our intro andget into this.
What's wrong with us?
Why do we avoid this wholedoctor thing?
And I don't understand men, whydo we?
I'm a man and at times I I amconfused by our behavior when it
comes to medical professionalsin our own health well.

Greg Fenner (03:38):
So you can't underestimate the impact of the
Tuskegee experiment, the lack oftrue treatment and true care
that African Americans havereceived historically, since we
didn't receive any duringslavery and during segregation,

(03:58):
we received minimal.
And even in the South, whereour parents are from, my mother
can tell you how they got lessNovocaine at the dentist than
the White patients did.
So these are historical impactsthat carry over generations and
generations.
And so you know and there arestigmas associated with prostate

(04:19):
cancer.
One of the ways of diagnosingor one of the screening
processes or methods is adigital rectal exam.
Now how many men do you know arecomfortable with a digital
rectal exam, unless they reallyunderstand how important that is
to diagnosing a nodule on yourprostate and that's the only way

(04:40):
that your physician can get toit?
Now I had a funny story fromour older brother.
Eric was telling me that he wasgetting a digital rectal exam
and he told his doctor "man, Ireally hate this part of the
exam.
And his doctor looked at himand said "it's no fun for me
either.
"And so the door kind of swings
both ways right the door kind ofswings both ways right, but

(05:10):
there are so many absolutephobias and historical things
that keep Black men from beingproactive about their health
that I think society has figuredout a way to underestimate and
even sometimes we underestimateit A company I used to work for
years ago.
We had a drug for prostatecancer.
Full disclosure I'm inpharmaceutical sales.
I've been for 35 years now.

Rudy Fenner (05:30):
I should have said that in the intro.
My apologies.

Greg Fenner (05:32):
But we had a drug for prostate cancer years ago
and we would support theseprostate cancer screenings,
particularly in the blackneighborhoods, because the
prevalence was so high, and wewould have a surprising number
of members of the communityAfrican-American community show
up and you would be amazed athow many of those screenings

(05:54):
came back positive for prostatecancer from men who had never
had not only a PSA but had neverhad a digital rectal exam.
So early detection I know we'llget to this, but early
detection is the key.
Not only does it improve yourpotential outcomes, but it also
improves your options fortherapy.

Rudy Fenner (06:14):
So let me jump in because, David, I want you to
talk about the same thing, butlet me just jump in and say this
- I was stunned and one of thethings that was an energy
behind this conversation wasthat the rates and the
percentages of men of all races,of all places being subjected

(06:35):
to prostate issues wasextraordinary and the most
stunning statistic - and then astunning fact.
One of the most stunningstatistics I saw was that 80
percent of men and this was fromthe University of North
Carolina medical community - 80percent of men who live to be 80

(06:56):
years old, will have prostatecancer.
That almost knocked me out ofmy chair and I've talked to
people and I've talked to peoplewho are not Black and I am
stunned at the 40 and 50 year-olds that I know who have not
ever had their PSA checked.
And I was just - I wasmortified because I realized

(07:20):
this is scary.
David, you deal with with ayounger community of men than I
am.
I work around younger people,but that's not really the crew I
hang out with.
What is the whole thing withdoctors, exams, checkups and
PSA exams.
Where are you, guys?

David Lottahall (07:38):
I think that our age group is either going to
be informed or not, and that'sdue to, you know, our parents
being either later gettinginformed or not being, I think,
like Uncle Greg said, having theaccess, the knowledge, the

(08:01):
history that we've had as aculture.
But I think, just beyond justculture-based, I think, as a man
, you're taught to just tough itup.
You roll your ankle playing atthe playground, you play through
it, you play in a sport, youplay through it, right?
Unless you physically can't.
So, unless it's keeping me fromdoing my day-to-day function,

(08:23):
this is just part of life and Ideal with that.
And so being able to bevulnerable, to go get checked up
and have some of the proactiveprocedures done, the screenings
done, requires you to have agreat deal of vulnerability.
You know you're going in andsaying, hey, I'm going to sign
up for this process, thisprocedure that I don't like, and

(08:47):
I have to be good with theresults.
I'd rather not find out andjust deal with it later.
I live my life as best as I canwithout knowing, and then they
tell me it's terminal, it'sterminally ill and it's too late
.
I've done all that I wanted todo, right?

Rudy Fenner (09:04):
Wow.

Greg Fenner (09:06):
Let me take it a step further for you.
I know people who have beendiagnosed with prostate cancer
and it turns out when they talkto their father, he was actually
diagnosed with prostate cancerand treated years ago, but he
never shared the story.
Al right, so that is possiblythe worst possible scenario.

(09:28):
So Greg Jr.
, my son, has been like everystep of the way.
He knows everything, and sowhen he turns 40, the normal age
for beginning PSA lab values is50.
But because he has not only afather but an uncle, I have two
cousins who were treated forprostate cancer.

(09:49):
This is an incredibly familialdisorder, right?

Rudy Fenner (09:56):
So that 80% number for us is on the money.

Greg Fenner (09:59):
It's absolutely on the money.
It could even be higher.
For him it's even higher right.
So the fact that the otherfriend of mine didn't know it
was just pure coincidence thathe was on top of his health and
got an early diagnosis.
He was treated with CyberKnifeand he's now in complete
remission.
But think about if he was alsoa laggard who wasn't proactive

(10:21):
with his health care and hisfather didn't tell him that he
had had prostate cancer.
All of a sudden he's at stagefour diagnosis, which another
friend of mine did find out lateat stage four and had to have a
radical prostatectomy andradiation following up.
And seven years later he's he'sin full remission.

(10:41):
But it didn't have to come tothat.

Rudy Fenner (10:43):
Right, right right.

Greg Fenner (10:44):
I mean what he is really regretful and
disappointed about is that hedidn't get the early detection.
He didn't have the options, soit's almost like a guilt that I
carry when I talk to him aboutit, because I got diagnosed
early, got treated early,minimally invasive.
I mean when I tell you thatradiation seed implant

(11:07):
brachytherapy is minimallyinvasive, it is incredibly
minimally invasive as opposed toradical.
Prostatectomy is a majorsurgery.
I mean a major surgery and along recovery period.
So I just want to throw that inif you are someone who has had
prostate cancer and you have ason, you are putting his life at

(11:30):
risk not telling him about yourclinical history.

Rudy Fenner (11:33):
This is really good .

Greg Fenner (11:35):
You're putting him at risk, but the private nature
of prostate cancer is such thatmost in the early days, when you
got a radical prostate cancer,prostate, or even if you were
treated, in most cases you cameout your libido, you lost your
libido, you had sexualdysfunction, erectile
dysfunction, and so that's thepersonal side that nobody wants

(11:57):
anybody to know, that there'seven a possibility that I suffer
from erectile dysfunction.

Rudy Fenner (12:01):
In fact, Greg, and I'm not trying to my point with
all of this isn't to scareanybody to death, but I want to
make sure that people understandthis now, and you can help me
with this as well.
When we talk about the radicalsurgery and I don't even say
the word right, so I'll leavethat to you, because you say it
nice and smooth I've talked todoctors and my feeling is that

(12:23):
many of them go into thatsurgery knowing that it is
highly unlikely that they'regoing to put you back together
completely.
They know it.
I'm just saying that's myinterpretation of some
conversations I've had.
Which encourages the earlydetection, is what I'm saying.

Greg Fenner (12:41):
Yeah, but they have to step to that side.
Now there's a nerve-sparingsurgery that they do.
Okay, and in most cases sexualfunction is restored.
What is that called?
So it's basically it was thefirst people to do it that
really perfected it were thesurgeons at Johns Hopkins.
The surgeons at Johns Hopkins,and it's basically nerve sparing

(13:04):
where they were able to removea prostate, do a radical
prostatectomy and spare thenerves that are responsible for
sexual function.

Rudy Fenner (13:16):
:

Greg Fenner (13:16):
That I did not know .

Greg Fenner, Guest: Many other many other surgeons (13:17):
undefined
can do it now, but they were theones from what I remember, from
what I recall, but they werethe ones from what I remember.
From what I recall, and when Iwas in that arena back in the
late 80s, early 90s, they werethe first ones who were able to
actually do that.
So doesRudy Fenner, Host: procedure
haveSo does name?
Well, it's just calledGreg Fenner, Guest: nerve
sparingWell, prostate, okay, okay and

(13:39):
so.
.

Greg Fenner, Guest (13:41):
the personal But the of a prideful man about
anybody knowing like maybe feelslike maybe someone would feel
like that makes them less than aman to have reduced sexual
dysfunction.
That's another myth that youknow that's unfortunate.

Rudy Fenner (14:00):
Look, David, I want to ask you a question, but let
me just tell you this.
So that's unfortunate.
David, I want to ask you aquestion, but let me just tell
you this so I am, my life is soincredibly wonderfully filled
with God and he deals with allof my issues at the door.
So you're talking about pride.
I had a problem.
My PSA went up and once my PSAwas checked, my primary Dr.

(14:25):
Smarth said "oh, you need to gohave this checked, let's
escalate this up.
So I went to a I think it was aurologist.
So I go to the urologist and Iwalk in and my wife goes with me
everywhere.
I go right, we just hang outlike that.
That's not for everybody and Iwouldn't say it's for everybody.
I would suggest to most men totake that with some care and
concern.
Everybody can't handle it.
My wife is a pretty fascinatinghuman.

(14:47):
We go into this guy and hewants to do the exam.
Now my wife is right there.
He's like drop him, let's go.
And I look at her and say, well,you said you're in, you're in,
and now right out of the gate,right out of the gate, right out
of the gate she's watching meget this exam, and I'm kind of

(15:08):
like I've reached the point now,because my wife has been
through cancer with me and she'sseen me at 120 and some change.
It can't get any worse.
She's seen the worst in all ofthe mess.
So we went on to do it, and soit was great, though, Greg,
because what you're saying is sotrue, because the little tiny
slice of pride that I had left,that toilet flushed and that

(15:31):
baby was gone and I was reallyfree in everything that happened
.
And so, since I've had momentswhere I realize what you're
saying because there's peopleexamining you, there's people
looking at you in ways andplaces that have never happened
during some of these processesand procedures, that if you have
a problem with this, you'regoing to have a problem.

David Lottahall (15:50):
So you just identified one of the biggest
obstacles, to care and look,we're believers.
We know that pride comes beforethe fall, and so you really
have to make yourself completelyvulnerable in ways that you
probably never imagined beforeI've never thought about that

(16:11):
one.
You gotta keep your eyesfocused on the, the end game.
What's the end game?
Now you can be prideful, keepyour boxes on and don't get your
exam.
And, and you know and die andyoung and leave a good corpse is
what the nuts used to say.
Live fast, die young and leave agood corpse.

(16:34):
DavidLottahall

Greg Fenner (16:34):
Guest: I don't any, at least in the
terms of health.
We'll focus on that.
I don't think anything thatproduces the right result is
going to be easy and there's notgoing to be something there.
You're not going to have togive give up or relinquish.
That means vulnerability, foryour sanity, to knowing that
I've done what I needed to do.
I've got my pre-screenings, Imade myself aware, educated

(16:58):
myself, found someone to educateme, right, cause if you don't
know, if you don't know how toread, you can find somebody to
read it for you, right?
So, finding, informationthat's available for us, um,
into that so that you can do putyour best foot forward, uh,
it's not going to be easy, right, it's not going to be easy
getting treatment, yep, notgoing to be easy.

(17:19):
If you get treatment and it'sunsuccessful, yeah, but at the
very least, this, - want youto go to heaven, but we want you
to stay here as long as you can.

Rudy Fenner (17:30):
So, David, let me ask you this.
So here's my challenge andmaybe Greg's challenge, and
maybe men of our age range, inour 50s, 60s and on, that is so
troubling to me.
I want to pause.
How do I - now I have peoplethat I work around that because
of our comfort level and we arealmost like family, whether we

(17:53):
want to be or not.
So I can go into some toughconversations and I've had
conversations with those guys.
But I'm around younger peopleall the time and that is a
troubling thing to hear you sayand to think about the guys that
don't know and who are notinformed and do not have the
dads and do not have the unclesand do not have the people.
What can we do to help motivatethem to engage on this?

(18:19):
Prostate health is one thing.
It just in general exams andblood pressure and the general
A-1 season, the things that youneed to be tracking and taking
care of.
What can we do to encouragethat behavior?

David Lottahall (18:34):
I think it starts with the little
conversations.
I think that you know sharing,sharing with the next person so
that they share with the nextperson.
Is kind of like the good news.
You know, you're gonna hearabout people having prostate
cancer and you also feel likeit's far removed from you as a
possibility, unless you've seena family history of it.

(18:58):
Yeah, you're gonna have aheightened awareness of it.
But if it hasn't really reachedyour family immediately like
uncles, parents, siblings.
If it hasn't really reachedyour family immediately like
uncles, parents, you knowsiblings if it hasn't reached
you in that way, you may thinkthat that's not something that
could happen to me.
Yeah, so you don't feel theurge to make yourself aware or
to be informed fully about thepossibility of it.

Rudy Fenner (19:20):
Yeah, because I'll say that Greg, he doesn't even
know what he did, but I rememberI was going through salivary
gland cancer and I'm goingthrough all of the radical stuff
that we had to do for that thesurgery and the chemo and the
radiation and all of that.
And Greg, in these odd moments,would say something that

(19:44):
connected back to prostatecancer, and I think I was a
little delusional in that I'mthinking that the salivary gland
cancer treatment and all ofthat is covering.
It's like I felt like I had acredit card that covered all of
my expenses, right, and it'skind of like you kept saying
something and I kept saying youknow what?
I need to get back on this PSAthing, because I may have been

(20:08):
distracted and I think in mycase I got lucky because my Dr.
Smarth is saying, well, youstill need to come in for a
physical.
I'm like, oh wait, that's right.
So I'm getting a blood test andI'm getting all other stuff,
but the rest of my body isstill going on.

Greg Fenner (20:31):
And we got to keep up with that as well.
Yeah, so in 2008 I was treatedfor squamous cell skin cancer.
Now you have three levels ofbasal cell, squamous cell and
melanoma.
Squamous cell is mid-level.
This is the same, I believe, uhform of cancer that Ron had.

Rudy Fenner (20:45):
That sounded familiar.
Yes, I believe you're right.

Greg Fenner (20:47):
Now our father had lung cancer, squamous cell lung
cancer.
So I knew, I just have a beliefright that once your body gets
exposed to cancer, I just don'tthink it can get eradicated
completely.
So whether it's traveling,whether there are other cells
that migrate and pop upsomewhere I don't have any

(21:08):
scientific proof of that, but Ialways knew that I had to stay
on top of all those biomarkersthat are early predictors of
cancer cells, and that's one of.
PSA is the most concentrated,that's the highest biomarker you
can use to diagnose prostatecancer.
That's the first thing you seeis an elevated PSA.
Now, riding a bicycle trauma.

(21:30):
There are things that canelevate your PSA, which is why
if you have an elevated PSA,they don't react right away.
They bring you back in forseveral more to follow up.
They make sure that what theythink they are seeing is what
they're actually seeing.

Rudy Fenner (21:42):
It's really a moment, not a movement.
Okay, I got you.

Greg Fenner (21:46):
And so you know for me, I just think that you know.
If you've ever been exposed tocancer in any way, I think that,
just for me personally, thatshould increase your awareness
around getting an annual PSA,especially if you're a black man
.
Our incidences are so muchhigher than everyone else

(22:08):
Rudy Fenner Host:and maybeMaybe encourage lifestyle
changes in support of thatAbsolutely.
.
.
I think it's very clear thatdiet, exercise, weight plays a
factor in everything but diet,processed foods, red meat.
Even after you're treated forprostate cancer, they actually
recommend that you stay awayfrom processed meats, ham,

(22:29):
prosciutto and all those things,because the preservatives in
them have a way of stimulatingcancer, so they advise that you
stay away from those.
But it's just so important formen who have had prostate cancer
to be vocal about it and nothide it.
People are interesting when itcomes to their health.

(22:51):
Some people are really private,most folks.
If you read the newspaper now,anybody who passes away, there's
never a cause of death.
Nobody lists cause of deathanymore.
I don't know why, butespecially again, something as
personal as prostate cancer.
Men are extremely reluctant totalk about it because you can

(23:14):
extrapolate it to oh well, if hehad prostate cancer he may have
had, if he had surgery, he hada radical prostatectomy, but he
doesn't have any sexualdysfunction anymore.
So people make these leaps andthat's just not true.
That's a myth, that is a thatis an absolute myth, and so that
men shouldn't let that stopthem from talking about prostate
cancer if they've beendiagnosed and treated, because
other folks need to hear, thatnews.

(23:35):
I have a brother-in-law who,after I got prostate, after I
was diagnosed and treated wetalked about it a couple of
times he went and got a PSA andturns out he was diagnosed with
prostate cancer and treated by aradiation oncologist who
trained with the same radiationoncologist who treated me.
They trained together because Iwas on it was during the

(23:57):
pandemic I couldn't go to thedoctor with him but we did a
FaceTime call and I was actuallyon the call with him,
"So what's your question?
Let me ask what do you do?
Well, I'm not a surgeon, I'mnot a physician, I'm not any of
that.
And I didn't stay at a HolidayInn Express last night either.
But, I recently was treated forprostate cancer and he said, "oh

(24:17):
really.
And we talked and he said well,Klein, he said you're kidding.
I trained with him and mybrother-in-law is doing
extremely well right now.
His PSA is down in the safemargins.
But that's early detection,early treatment, early diagnosis
.
Early treatment because we talk, because we communicate.
And I didn't go over theresaying, oh, nothing's wrong with

(24:39):
me, Don't look at me, I'm fine,I'm healthy, I'm good.
Oh, no, no, no the rumors of mytreatment are greatly
exaggerated.

Rudy Fenner (24:46):
That is not true.

David Lottahall (24:47):
I'm fine.

Rudy Fenner (24:48):
No, we talked about it a lot.
So, okay, you know what I gotso excited?
That was a printer that justwent off.
Okay, I can live with that.
So let's take a step backbecause we got so far into that.
Let me take a step back becausewe're talking about prostate

(25:08):
cancer.
But let's talk about theprostate because I don't think,
until I was introduced to it, Ididn't think about my prostate.
I didn't think about it anymore than I think about my pinky
toe.
It just didn't cross my mind.
So, what it actually does andthen talk about some of the

(25:32):
issues that we might want tolook at.
In the notes I had were itproduces fluid that nourishes
and protects sperm, helps pushsemen out during ejaculation,
regulates urine flow, and Ithink those are the things that
begin to, when disrupted orinterrupted, begin to be little
signals that something is kindof going sideways.

(25:52):
Greg, in terms of what itactually does.
Did you have anything beyondthat before?

David Lottahall (25:57):
we talk about issues.
No.

Rudy Fenner (26:00):
Okay, so that's kind of in a nutshell what the
purpose is, and then talk aboutprocess issues, and I had
enlarged urinating frequency,prostatitis and then prostate
cancer, in terms of issues.
Let's talk about those issues alittle bit.

(26:22):
So you talked about prostatecancer and then the prostatitis
infection versus inflammation.
Are you at all familiar withthat?

Greg Fenner (26:31):
Yeah, so most African Americans have enlarged
prostates, which leads tofrequent urination because it
pushes on the bladder.
When you get treated forprostate cancer one of the
things that they are concernedabout due to the proximity of

(26:53):
the prostate gland with therectum and other organs, the
concern is that with radiation -that radiation is a powerful
therapy, and especially the beamradiation that they use now the
CyberKnife and the SBRT - theycan torch an organ.
My understanding from myoncologist is these therapies

(27:19):
are good, but they better be inthe hands of an expert because
they are very powerful and ifit's off just one little bit, it
can be really damaging to otherorgans, and so it's really
important to get not only thebest care but multiple

(27:40):
treatments, multiple opinionsand really understand who you're
dealing with.
No indictment, but you don'twant the guy that was, you know,
in the bottom third of hisclass, .

Rudy Fenner (27:56):
Yeah.
David, that guy with the badeye.
I ain't trying to be funny, butthat's for real, that's for
real.

Greg Fenner (28:01):
No shade, no judgment, you know, but you have
to be your own advocate andyou've got to advocate for
yourself.
I can you know a funny story.
When I was first diagnosed, Ihad a couple of second opinions
and a couple of different docsthat I talked to, and actually
the first urologist that Italked to, when he saw my chart

(28:25):
and saw my radiology report, hesaid okay, well, we can get you
in for surgery.

I Brachytherapy (28:31):
hoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, hold on, we're
just getting started here.
He said well, I said there area lot of other therapies.
There's there's cyber knife,there's you know, there's a lot
of different treatments.
I want to make sure Iunderstand all of of them.
He said "you said well, we onlydo surgery here.
Well, so most urologists aretrained surgeons right, so you

(28:55):
know, my first thought was okay,right.
So you know, my first thoughtwas OK, if the only tool you
have is a hammer, then everyproblem looks like a nail.
And so Cheryl was with me, youknow, my wife was with me, and I
said, well, that's going to doit for us.
And so I left I mean there's noexplanation needed and he was
OK with that.
He said "because all we do issurgery, we don't do radiation.

(29:18):
Even if you're stage t2b, evenif you are low, moderate, you
know risk, even if you're, youknow, even if your PSA was just
over four, it doesn't matter, weoperate, we remove prostates
here.
That's what we do.
"Prostate prostatectomy is ourbusiness, all right.
And so that's.
That wasn't the doctor for me.
So I went for a consult atUniversity of Maryland with this

(29:41):
doctor who was the foremostexpert on radiation therapy for
prostate cancer in the region.
As a matter of fact, even someof the Hopkins physicians refer
patients to him because he wasone of the first to do.
There's another form ofradiation that's really powerful

(30:06):
and actually I'll think of itin a minute, but he was one of
the first to do that.
He showed me all of hisequipment.
I did a tour of his facility andhe was a physician who actually
trained Dr.
Kanani, who treated me at theSchar Cancer Center.
Okay right and so, withoutunderstanding and and going to
these different consults andunderstanding how, it's treated,

(30:27):
where you're diagnosed, becauseeverybody's diagnosis,
everybody's physiology isdifferent, your diagnosis .
Maybe you say yeah, but yourbody's different so you need to
hear for yourself what the besttreatment for you is.
And so we ended up.
I ended up back at the ScharCancer Center and I knew I was

(30:48):
in the right place, but onlybecause I went on two other
consults, saw facilities, talkedabout my disease and how to be
treated.
And that's the other good thingabout early diagnosis - you got
time.
You have time If you getdiagnosed and it's so bad that
they got to rush you intosurgery right now.
That's what happened to afriend of mine.

(31:08):
He was diagnosed because he wasGleason's score of 9, which
only goes up to 10.
He was a 9.
He was stage 4.
to 10, he was a nine.
His was stage four and whenthey do a biopsy, they break
your prostate up into 15 sectors.
Okay, three sectors had tracesof cancer cells in mine.

(31:32):
15 out of 15 of his sectors hadprostate cancer and cancer
cells.
So you don't have any option.
This has got to go, and what wehope is that it's not spread to
your pelvic wall or any otherorgans.
But they don't know that untilthey do until they get in and
open you up and get yourprostate out and do the heat
map, you know the differentthings that they do.

(31:53):
They don't even know, right?
And so that's just reason 17Bwhy early detection, an annual
PSA is a good thing to do.

Rudy Fenner (32:05):
So let me ask you this.
So, David, I'm curious, andthis is a kind of weird question
, but I thought about it haveyou ever had people that you
work around, or friends thathave gone down this road, that
have shared this?

David Lottahall (32:16):
No, the only person I literally have talked
to I'll say probably two peoplewould be, Jeremy, and then my
dad wow, he hasn't, you knowthank God he hasn't had any
signs or the need for earlydetection or anything like that.
But as far as health and whatyou do for preventative measures
, he's told me the things thatyou can take those types of

(32:39):
things to look for, and hestressed the importance of
educating and reading andfinding out as much as you can
about it.

Rudy Fenner (32:46):
So let me ask you this too.
So I'm in my 60s, how old areyou?
40.

David Lottahall (32:53):
40, okay, that was the rumor I'd heard.
41 in May.

Rudy Fenner (32:56):
So let me ask you this have you had conversations
with your doctors and yourmedical community about this?

David Lottahall (33:03):
I have.
I've also talked aboutcolonoscopies and things of that
nature Unfortunately, a lot ofthey won't move on a lot because
it's an insurance-based thing.
Really, yeah, because of my ageI'm not necessarily at an age
they won't move on a lot becauseit's an insurance based thing.
And so really yeah, becausebecause of my age I'm not
necessarily at an age.

Rudy Fenner (33:23):
So what's the right age?

David Lottahall (33:24):
I think it's like 45.
I want to say it's like 45 wheninsurance will start to cover
some of the well, that's the keyword, right?
So that's word.
Insurance coverage right?
And so you know a lot of thesethings.
Insurance starts to cover itbecause of what the data says,
which is crazy.

Greg Fenner (33:47):
But, I will tell you, most of the literature does
say when you have somebodywho's diagnosed with prostate
cancer earlier than 40, that'srare.
Which which brings me to thenext point.
This is why you got to knowyour family history, right, got
to know your family history, gotto know your family history.
I would bet it's very rare tofind someone with prostate
cancer under 50 who doesn't havea history of prostate cancer in

(34:12):
their family.
So we have a cousin whosefather had prostate cancer and
he was just diagnosed andtreated at the age of 52.
He had a radical prostatectomyand he's doing fine, but his
father also had prostate cancer.
So I don't like to scare my son, but he does get a little

(34:35):
agitated when we talk about this, because I tell him your
incidence, your probability,your chances are high.
Let's just call it what it isthey're high.

David Lottahall (34:43):
But

Greg Fenner (34:48):
I think you're more probable to being approved.

Rudy Fenner (34:51):
You mean father-son ?
Yes, well, right, true.

Greg Fenner (34:53):
If it's close to you, that actually works in your
favor to get to start yourprocedures, your screenings,
early.
Well, think about ChadwickBoseman.
How young was he when he diedof colorectal cancer?
That man wasn't even 40 yet.
So now my guess is that heprobably had some digestive
cancer somewhere in his family.

(35:14):
I don't know that, I don't knowanything about his family, but
it's a horrible event.
And who knows, even if theycould have caught it at 33, but
that's incredibly young.
But all this stuff ties back tofamily history, so it's really
important to know your familyhistory.
So so Sorry, he was a lot olderthan that, he was 43.

Rudy Fenner (35:32):
Still, still young.
So I guess the thing to bemindful of is you're saying you
got to know your family, you gotto know what your history is.
You got to be responding andconnecting to that.
You also, I think from what Ihad when I was being treated for

(35:53):
my salivary gland cancer I wason two occasions, things as
simple as some of the screenings.
What is it the test that youget after your treatment?
CAT scan?
Keep on going.
The top one.

(36:16):
I can't believe I just lost mywords, but there were basic
things that should be done.
That insurance initiallyrejected a PTI, a PTI, a PTI.
Oh my gosh, what is it that?
I was going into?
Getting to inject fluid in meand it took 45 minutes for the
fluid to take and then it was awhole oh my, a PET scan, a PET

(36:39):
scan.
I'm sorry.
I'm so sorry.

Greg Fenner (36:42):
You brought me here to talk about prostate cancer
You're giving me math.

Rudy Fenner (36:53):
But after receiving chemotherapy and radiation, the
insurance company rejected thePET scan.
And we had to advocate and getour conversation right and go
back and they immediately saidokay, but I was shocked that
that would be rejected.
And so I'm saying with some ofthese things, just like you're
saying, the insurance coveragesays no, but I need to get my

(37:17):
history together, document that,submit that to my insurance
company and say okay, for thisreason we need to override that
decision.

David Lottahall (37:24):
The other thing that goes along with that.
I saw a video this was a coupleof years ago, I think actually
closer to the pandemic now andit was a lady.
It was an African-American lady, young, probably my age, and
she went to an eye doctor.
They did a procedure where theyput you in front of a machine.

(37:46):
They look there's a lot ofhealth..
.

Rudy Fenner (37:49):
I have that done.
Yes, I've had that done.
You can tell by the body.

David Lottahall (37:52):
And they looked at her and they said you need
to go get screened based uponwhat we're seeing.
You need to go get screenedbased upon what we're seeing.
And she went and got screenedand found out that she had early
I think she had colon cancerearly signs of it.
That's crazy, and so the thingis, through your eyes, right.
So the other thing that I alsosaw after that was someone
talking about when you get yourtax return right, even if you're

(38:16):
saving your money or you'retaking care of things that you
needed to take care of, maybeuse that money to get some of
these screenings that you don'thave access to because of
insurance coverage.

Rudy Fenner (38:28):
The other day I got - because I'm a regular
customer with one of the locallabs that does the blood test.
They talked about colon cancer,the screenings that are now
advancing with blood tests, andthey're actually sending me ads.
Hey, you know, you can get yourcolon cancer checked with this
blood test that you're gettingready to have, and so there's a
number of options that areavailable.

Greg Fenner (38:50):
And you're right, sometimes, instead of buying
your Porsche with your bonus,you might want to consider
different tests that are bloodtests and things that help you
understand where you are andwhere your health is.
Well so that's another reallyexcellent point, cause I watched
Good Morning America every dayreligiously and the doctor that
was on there was talking aboutall the new screenings for

(39:12):
colorectal cancer, for coloncancer and all digestive forms
of cancer, and he was sayingthat the colonoscopy is no
longer the preeminent screen forcolon cancer, for digestive
cancers.
This is is another reason whyyou have to really advocate for

(39:32):
yourself, ask the rightquestions and stay up on your
own.
If you have a history, like mywife Cheryl, her mother died of
stomach cancer, so there's ahistory of digestive disease and
digestive cancer in her family,so she's constantly talking to
her gastroenterologist aboutthose different things and she
goes for screening every threeyears.
But that's how you stay on topof it.

(39:54):
And why is it, we always know,we always see or we see a lot
that our White counterparts,their survival rates and their
diagnosis rates are better,their diagnosis rates are
higher, and their treatments aremore successful than they are

(40:15):
in the African-Americancommunity, and it's mostly
because of access to care,education and advocacy.
You know we can really learnfrom our entire society, about
how important it is to advocatefor yourself to be educated to

(40:37):
understand your family history.
I mean, we've talked aboutfamily history a lot today and
that's something that getsoverlooked.
A lot of these insurancecompanies are denying things
because they don't know, becauseit's not in your chart that you
have a family history of this.
So when you educate them aboutthat?
They will fall like a lawn chair.
They don't want to be in thatlegal checkbook.
I was just going to say it'scrazy, because when they ask you
to go to get truck ups, itdoesn't matter where you go.

(40:57):
And they said do you have thisin your family?
I'm like I got all of them,everything, grandparents.

Rudy Fenner (41:06):
Can I tell you that until a few years ago, after
our father, like Greg saidearlier, passed away, he had a
heart attack but he was beingtreated for lung cancer when the
heart attack occurred, passedaway.
He had a heart attack but hewas being treated for lung
cancer when the heart attackoccurred.
There are actually documentsthat I have completed that I'm
going to confess to the worldtoday that they said is there a

(41:27):
history of cancer?
And I said no.
I said "you idiot".

David Lottahall (41:31):
That was the wrong answer.

Rudy Fenner (41:33):
You got one person in your family that hasn't had
cancer.

David Lottahall (41:36):
My mother was a breast cancer survivor.
Yeah, mother was a breastcancer.

Rudy Fenner (41:39):
Her father was a - it's cancer everywhere you look,
and so I'm gonna freeeverybody who's listening.
Why, David, I can't tell youwhy?

Greg Fenner (41:53):
That's a good question, because if it's
convenience, no question If it'sconvenience.

Rudy Fenner (41:58):
I don't even know what I was thinking.
It's just like I don't knowwhat happened one day, because
I'm not a, I'm not an incredibly.
.
.
Lord knows, I'm not a privateperson.
I don't.
.
..
I'm not a person who lies, I'mnot a deceiving person.
So I know what my name, I knowme, I don't.
I wasn't doing it for thatreason, but for some reason the
light bulb just didn't come onand then I realized, oh my gosh,

(42:19):
you need to emphatically sayyes, yes, yes, and list what
everything is.
And that changes, the wholedynamic and the outcome of all
of these conversations.

David Lottahall (42:29):
Yeah, and a really good physician and an
assessment of your health canlook at your family history and
prescribe the proper blood work,the proper analysis.
You know a really goodphysician can do that, so they
really do need to know.

Rudy Fenner (42:43):
Wow, okay.
So, man, I'm getting caught inmy own head here because you all
are saying stuff that's justlaunching me into all kinds of
thoughts.
The thing I had next was whathappens if you're diagnosed, and
I want to stop for a second andI want to add a little input to
that.
Cause, Greg, you've said somethings that are just absolute
fire to me.
So first, I didn't know.
You said - talking abouturologists - that they're all

(43:05):
trained surgeons.
Yes, okay, let me stop, and Ineed to apologize for all of the
urologists that I talked tothat I thought had lost their
minds, because I'm talking to aurologist who tells me, after my
Decipher test, which is anincredibly detailed test
incredible that takes yoursamples from your prostate,

(43:28):
analyze it, analyzes it to thisincredible degree in terms of
the, the risk levels, what needsto be done is a roadmap to what
needs to happen next.
And that's a scary thing too,because I've talked to men that
don't know what a PSA is andI've helped them with that.
But I've had people who havebeen through the entire prostate
health, from surgeries toeverything, and many of them

(43:50):
have never heard of a Deciphertest, which is frightening to me
.

David Lottahall (43:53):
Well, so I'm going to guess that, first of
all, that's an oncology tool.
A decipher test is an oncologytool if you're only being
treated by a urologist.
He only knows what he knows, andwith all the things that they
have to do from a urologicalperspective and learning and
keeping up to date.

(44:14):
There's no way most of themdon't have time to delve into
the world of oncology.
So that's why I've advocated tomost of the people that I know
if you get diagnosed withprostate cancer, it's not enough
to see just a urologist.
You need to see an oncologistas well, because cancer is what
they do, and the generaloncologist, hematologist that I

(44:34):
go to that has treated my entirefamily the one that I go to is
so good that he knows my familyhistory.
I don't have to tell him myfamily history.
I was just with him lastThursday.
I went with him on Thursday andwe talk about so much with
regard to diagnosis andtreatment.
But to Decipher, I'm going togo back to that.

(44:55):
That is the most comprehensivedocument on your health, on my
health, that I've ever seen.
I mean, it broke my cancer downto the nth degree and if you
only go to a urologist, you'llnever know that that kind of
analysis of your health evenexists.

Rudy Fenner (45:18):
So let me go back to when I was diagnosed.
The guy had now interestingenough, he was a urologist who
bought in the Decipher.
But when he bought it back,what kind of weirded me out was
I was low risk.
I mean really no low numberlike a .3 or whatever.

(45:39):
I don't remember the number.
I think that's sort of what itwas.

David Lottahall (45:42):
He said and it's color-coded, by the way.

Rudy Fenner (45:44):
Right, right, right .
It's even color-coded.
If you can't read or count.
You know what red, yellow andgreen, you know what that means.
Yeah, so he says, and he wasorienting himself towards
surgery or active surveillance.

David Lottahall (46:01):
Now he saw the risk.

Rudy Fenner (46:03):
I said wait, we're at .3, and you want to cut stuff
out.
I'm not sure if I'm following,if it's a low risk.
But that goes back to what yousaid, that I didn't know, for
the man that only has a hammer,everything is a nail, so we're
going to cut it out.
And I said, well, let me ask youabout seed and other radiation.

(46:27):
And he said, well, yeah, youcan consider that option.
Now here's where my gift is.
I don't have a lot of things,but I can read people like
nobody's business and I couldhave swore.
When I said that his posturechanged to a I'm getting ready
to leave position and I saidwait, wait, wait, wait.
I think I'm getting ready toget dismissed.

(46:47):
And I realized he started likea little kid in elementary
school.
He started to gather his thingsbecause it was time to go and I
realized, oh, wait.
.
..
you don't offer that.

Greg Fenner (47:00):
So, in deference to urologists, so I will offer
this.
They most of them are that I'veencountered anyway are really
good surgeons and they're reallygood at what they do and they
have, you know, good outcomes.
They have really good outcomeswith their surgeons and the ones
that do, and they have, youknow, good outcomes.
They have really good outcomeswith their, with their surges

(47:20):
and the ones that do it so muchthey they really they know what
the margins and they're reallygood at that.
Now, no shade, no indictment.
They are healthcareprofessionals, but they're also
business people.
There's a business to run andin this healthcare environment
where reimbursements are gettingsmaller by the day, or the work

(47:42):
that a physician does on adaily basis, whether it's office
visit, procedures, whatever.
So a business person can'tafford to spend too much time on
a customer who's not buyinganything right.

Rudy Fenner (47:59):
I mean, that's not an indictment.
The dude was putting me out,Greg, so this is great, that
door started closing.
I'm not sure if it was personal.
I didn't know, but I knew whathis body was doing right and I
said, oh, this brother's gettingready to roll out.

David Lottahall (48:14):
Now I know what he was thinking.

Rudy Fenner (48:15):
I don't know where his body was doing right and I
said, oh, this brother's gettingready to roll out Now.

David Lottahall (48:16):
I don't know what he was thinking.
I don't know where his head wasat.
He's done with me but.
I can tell you that running amedical practice is complicated.
This is good, yeah, see.

Rudy Fenner (48:26):
And we're the patient.
We're not really thinking aboutwhat you just said, Greg.
That is like we got to rememberthe environment that we're in.
So wait, let me go back,because I want to make sure I
catch this.
So when I look at the treatmentoptions, I want to go back and
I'm going to go back and I'mgoing to read it again.
Pat Riley said "you have to bean active participant in your
own rescue and I'm telling youwhen I go back and think about

(48:48):
that I really had to do.
I was fortunate because you hadtalked to me so much about this
.
I knew the options that werethere and I was incredibly
fortunate that my guy, dr, drrao, down at gw had done my
radiation for my first surgerydiagnosis.
I'm talking to him as afollow-up to the first treatment

(49:11):
and he says, oh, and he's soincredibly humble, that's why I
love this dude.
He says, "well, that's kind oflike my field of specialization,
prostate cancer.
Oh, wait, wait, wait, hold it,tell me more and he starts to
tell me, and he immediatelybegins to pick up where your
conversations ended and goes toother levels in terms of other
options that we can consider.

(49:32):
But definitely, activesurveillance toss that out,
because we're not going to beactive.
And here's what I wanted tomention with that.
Active surveillance wasfascinating because the
statistics said that where myprostate cancer was, it was low
risk and most likely not needanything.
He said okay, let me just breakthis down for you.
He said for the first fiveyears I can almost promise you

(49:55):
you're not going to needanything.
Each five-year increment thatyou add on, the percentage that
you might need some work goes up, he said, and if you live to be
80 or 90, it is highly unlikelythat you won't need anything.
So now my thing was this shouldI have radiation treatment now,
where I'm running a 5k everyweek, or should I wait until I'm

(50:15):
in my 70s or my 80s and my bodyis weaker and then have
radiation and have things done?

Greg Fenner (50:20):
So let me give you my perspective on active
surveillance.
First of all, the Decipherreport actually says for five
years are you scot-free?
You don't have a care in theworld.
But if you look at thatDecipher report, the further you
go down, your likelihood ofdisease progression gets higher

(50:45):
and higher.
Now, if you're 85 years old andyou get diagnosed with prostate
cancer, active surveillance maybe a good idea, especially if
you get diagnosed in an earlystage at 85 years old.
Yeah, it's more likely you'regoing to die from getting hit by
a bus or a heart attack thanyou are from prostate cancer.

(51:07):
But if you're 55 or 60 or 65,active surveillance to me is the
equivalent of a stick ofdynamite and a fuse.
Like the fuse, and it justdepends on how long that fuse is
.
You know, because it's it'sgoing to blow up.

Rudy Fenner (51:26):
It really doesn't matter.
I'll tell you it's going toblow up and that's.
That's a good analogy.

David Lottahall (51:31):
Let's just sit here and watch.

Rudy Fenner (51:32):
When he mentioned active surveillance.

David Lottahall (51:34):
To me I almost said have you lost your complete
mind?
I'm not actively surveillinganything.

Rudy Fenner (51:40):
I was shocked.
That's not even an option forme.

David Lottahall (51:43):
I was 60 years old when I was diagnosed.
At 60 years old activesurveillance I don't care how
early in my stage.
Well, actually the firsturology when my PSA was elevated
, he said well, we can do acouple of things you can do.
You know, this is your secondtime in and it's 4.3.
And it wasn't even that high.
But now this is really key -4.0 or lower is normal PSA.

(52:08):
But if your PSA increases morethan one point over the course
of a year, that warrants furtherinvestigation.

Rudy Fenner (52:14):
There you go.
That's a good marker.

David Lottahall (52:16):
So, even if it goes, my PSA went from 2.9 to
4.2.
And when I first got that bloodwork and I went to the
urologist, he said, well, 4.2,that's not high.
I said no, you don't understand.
It went more than one point.
And he said, yeah, that's true.
I'm like okay.

Greg Fenner (52:34):
May not be dealing with a class valedictorian here.

David Lottahall (52:39):
If I'm telling you this.

Greg Fenner (52:40):
Oh my gosh, so he said well, we can do a couple
things.
We can do active surveillance orwe can do a biopsy.
I said, oh, we're doing abiopsy.
W e're doing a biopsy, andwhen can you get me in?
So he said, okay, okay, okay.
So we did that and he caught on.
I will never forget.
This is god is my witness.

(53:01):
He called me on the morning ofNovember 1st 2019.
The morning of November 1st, Iwas working with one of my reps
and I took I stepped outside andtook the call.
He said hey, uh Greg.
Yeah, this is Dr.
X.
Yeah, it turns out you do haveprostate cancer.
I was like I knew that.

(53:23):
Why do you think I said I'mgetting a biopsy?
I knew in my soul.
It was like fire shut up in mybones.
I knew it and I didn't need it.
All the biopsy did was confirmwhat I already knew.
"Turns out you were right.
I'm like imagine that I said so.
That was when I went to meetone of his partners and you know

(53:45):
they only had uh surgery as anoption, and so I booked.
Obviously, I was out of there,but I'm just telling this is
that's another example of howyou have to advocate for
yourself.
I mean, it's like I'm not doingany active surveillance, I'm
not lighting interviews andwatching like Wile E Coyote or
Sticky Dynamite blow up in myface.
No, we're not doing that, bro.

Rudy Fenner (54:06):
Yeah, and so you had the what's the procedure you
had.

David Lottahall (54:10):
I had a brachytherapy radiation seed
implant right and so I.

Rudy Fenner (54:16):
I was diagnosed early, early stage active
surveillance.
No, what do we need to do?
We looked at the brachytherapyfor my body, my anatomy, it's so
strikes to what you said myanatomy.
My doctor said I can do thatbut I'm not as confident with

(54:36):
the 100% accuracy and where yourorgans are placed.
I would rather do SBRT and I'msorry I can't remember what that
stands for.
I had that's an acronym.

Greg Fenner (54:47):
Stereostatic beam radiation therapy.

Rudy Fenner (54:49):
I was not going to remember that.
So thank you.
So yeah, so we were going to dothat.
So I've already gone in.
We've had the gold rods inplace.
I told Robin I'm a value nowbecause I have gold inside of my
body that's going to remainhere through the duration.
Don't nobody be digging up myremains trying to get all the
gold bits out.
I'm not playing that, I don'tmess around like that and if I'm

(55:11):
cremated, make sure that theydon't take it the little pieces
out from the dust and sift thosethrough.
That is not nice, but I've hadthe.
.
.
what is it?
The other thing was the spaceore placed in.
So those are gel inserts thatthey add to separate your organs
to ensure that the radiationdoes not affect or it reduces

(55:34):
dramatically reduces thepotential for side effects from
radiation treatment.
So I've had those things doneand I will tell you I said that
because you said a key word.
So you have the PSA, a scan ofsome sort, maybe an MRI, a
biopsy and I will tell you, ofthe radiation, of the

(55:54):
preparation of everything.
.
..
Clearly, to me the biopsy wasthe most dramatic and whoa, what
are you doing?
Part of the whole process.
Everything else was absolutelypainless.
I'm saying this to anybody thatmight have to go through this.
I experienced very littlediscomfort from anything.
The biopsy was like put me tosleep and when I wake up, it's
kind of like a lot of stuff justhappened here.
I need a nap up.

(56:17):
It's kind of like a lot ofstuff just happened here.
Uh, I need a nap, but it wasactually.
I've been amazed that, based onmy first cancer experiences,
this has really been smallpotatoes.
To tell you the truth, I'm notI'm not saying that for anybody
who has experienced none of this.
My reference points aredifferent but I was surprised at
how, like I said, the biopsywas the biggest thing for me and
, uh, so a couple of things.

Greg Fenner (56:34):
The biopsy was the biggest thing for me.
So a couple of things.
Biopsy was walking the park.
The room was freezing.
I mean, it was literallyicicles hanging in there.
It was the coldest room I'veever been in, but that was
nothing for me.
The brachytherapy was like,when I woke up I was laying in a

(57:00):
recovery room was like when Iwoke up, I was laying in a
recovery room.
I equate brachytherapy to acolonoscopy.
Okay, okay, count backwardsfrom 10.
Best sleep of my life, and Iwoke up in another room with
people looking at me smiling.
Now here's what I did not like.
This is personal preference,the MRI was just going in.
That, like this is personalpreference.
Yeah, the MRI was just you know,oh, really Going in that
chamber, that's a small, it waslike being in a being like

(57:22):
buried alive in a casket.

David Lottahall (57:24):
This is interesting.

Rudy Fenner (57:25):
Then the first time it was fine.

Greg Fenner (57:26):
I was just whistling, you know, thinking
about you know, because I wasplaying golf.
After that, thinking about that, the next time I went in,
something hit me.
I don't, it's like I don't knowif I had like a moment that is,
this was gonna happen when I'mgonna die, okay, I'm getting
cremated because I can't wake upin this thing.
Yeah, you know, and and so thatthat's it.
That was a.
.
.

Rudy Fenner (57:46):
So I'm sorry, sidebar, we get ready to close,
but I gotta tell this storybecause you said that, uh, I'll
tell you and again, you gottaask people to point of reference
.
I said what I said to your MRI,but here's why the MRI was no
problem to me.
When I was treated for my neckcancer, I had to have neck
radiation and for my neckradiation, 33 treatments.

(58:08):
They created a mold mask thatgot screwed down to a table and
my head was screwed down,covered by the mask 33 times and
I never had a problem with it.
Now, hindsight being 2020, Ilooked at it and I said dude,
you are weird, that sounds and Idid.
Now I did have one episode whereit's not funny, but it was

(58:31):
funny.
So they put you on the table.
It it's so hard, it's likesomething from a barbarian movie
.
They put you on this hard tablebecause you can't have anything
.
You're dealing with the rays.
You just got to be carefulbecause it'll conduct.
So they put you on this hardtable, they lay you down in a
place and they put the mask onand they screw the mask to the

(58:51):
table.
And here's what's really funny.
Here's what's really funny.
When they get ready, themachine gets set up, it
calibrates and when the machinegets ready to go, everybody runs
out of the room and there's adoor that's about a foot thick.
That's very comforting.

David Lottahall (59:06):
It's a door that's about a foot thick.

Rudy Fenner (59:08):
And when the door closes, it's like the seal, a
little bit more than the seal onan airplane door, when, a
little bit more than the seal onthe airplane door, when the
airplane closes, and everythingjust goes.
You said, how long was that?
So the process?
You were in there for maybeonly about 10 minutes.
The thing was you, I had to doit 33 times on 33 days.
I had to do that and I only Idid have one day where they

(59:34):
strapped me down, the doorclosed and I held up my hand and
the guy came in.
I said, bro, I need a minute.
And he said he said you knowwhat?
I'm really surprised it tookyou this long to do this.
He said take as long as youneed.
I said no, actually I need onlylike a couple of minutes.
But for some reason, my.
.
..
I just got my, everything gotoff.

(59:54):
Nah bro.

David Lottahall (59:55):
And I never had a problem.
Yeah, that's asking for a lotfrom me, I don't want that and
I'm never even going.

Greg Fenner (01:00:01):
I don't want that.

Rudy Fenner (01:00:02):
I kept the mask and I keep it.
I have it downstairs and Ibring it out every now and then
If people start getting a little.
You know, every now and thenI'm talking to people about
diets and things and they get aa little big chest on me about
how they have this, and that Isaid let me tell you what some
options are, Chief.
You want to eat the salad?
You will, because here, righthere, here, right here, let me
just tell you what this is.
Yeah, so, anyway.
So I understand what you saidabout the MRI.

(01:00:24):
That's really interesting andperspective and all of that.

Greg Fenner (01:00:27):
So let's wrap this up, because one thing, a therapy
I couldn't think of earlier wasproton therapy.
Ah, there you go.

Rudy Fenner (01:00:34):
Proton therapy and I've heard that there's some
incredible advances in that andminimal side effects.
And the only reason I didn'tget.

Greg Fenner (01:00:41):
My physician said look, we got the equipment.
I just don't have enoughexperience with proton therapy
in terms of outcomes as much asI do with brachytherapy, the way
we do brachytherapy I got.
Let me tell you I'm reallyconfident in treating your
cancer with that, not as muchwith proton, because I just
don't have that experience.
That was enough for me.

(01:01:01):
Your experience, his experiencemattered to me, but it's really
pretty advanced.

Rudy Fenner (01:01:07):
Wow, wow.
So y'all have been incrediblein talking about this man.
I am hoping, as a matter offact, I'm going to get some
t-shirts made and I'm going to,I'm going to do these and the
t-shirts going to say "what'syour PSA?
Because I am, I am beginning tobe, and I think God does.

(01:01:28):
This puts this thing in yourheart about injustice and things
that aren't right, and I'mbeginning to be angry about our
ignorance in terms of PSA andare not understanding how easy
this is on the front end If weget it at the beginning, this
process and I don't mean I'm nottrying to minimize it, I'm
saying easy in terms of stageone versus stage four and and

(01:01:52):
the things that I'm hearinghearing, I have friends who've
had the radical surgeries andtheir lives are altered and it's
not going to correct in somecases.
I, in fact, I know some are outthere, I just haven't talked to
anybody that's 100 back to wherethey were after that surgery.
It is, it's a lot, and so Iwant to do everything I can to

(01:02:13):
talk about it, to get it infront of people, to be an
advocate and, honestly, I don'tmind being a mild - actually, I
don't care at all about being apain in the ass if that's what
it causes people to look alive,to wake up, to see this stuff,
to pay attention.
David, let me close out.
I'm going to toss to you andGreg.
Any last-minute things weshould mention?

David Lottahall (01:02:42):
Just push the awareness.
I think that's the biggestthing here.
Um, like I said, the theminimal conversations that I've
had with people in my circle uh,has been very small.
We've talked about other things, um, but that particular topic
we have not yeah, we hadin-depth conversation about, but
you know we are getting older,so we need to be more aware of
the things that are.

Rudy Fenner (01:03:01):
So I will definitely get two of those PSA
t-shirts for you, one to wearand one to give out.
Greg any last minute thoughts?

David Lottahall (01:03:09):
So it's really important.
First thing I would say is knowyour family history.
Know your family history.
Know your family history, nomatter what anybody tells you,
and there's a lot of literaturenow that says that the PSA is
not as valuable in earlydetection or as accurate.
Don't buy into that.

(01:03:31):
Get your PSA checked at leastannually at a minimum beginning
age 50.
But if you have family history,start it before that and I'll
tell you.
You asked David about him andhis friends.
Funny story is I have severalgroups that we get together for
lunch at least once a month anda lot of these guys are retired.
The first 15 minutes is allabout health updates and the

(01:03:54):
latest thing you know what wewoke up with this morning.
Have you ever had this?
And we actually had a friend ofours who had a cyst on his
backside that he had had therefor some time and we were like,
are you nuts?
You got to get that thingremoved.
So we really pressured him.
He went to see his doctor thatafternoon.

(01:04:14):
Within two weeks he was insurgery and had it removed and
the doctor said what in theworld took him so long?
Because it was getting biggerand bigger.
It was a non-cancerous, it wasa benign cyst.
But it's like how can you letthis thing just grow on you like
that?
So if you have the earlyscreening, knowing your family

(01:04:35):
history, talking to your peersabout health issues, but if you
do have a peer with a healthissue, even if it strains your
relationship, you got to pressthem into getting the proper
health care.
Don't let losing a friendbecause -,- if you want to
really lose a friend, don't sayanything and you'll lose a
friend permanently.

(01:04:55):
If you want to really lose afriend, don't say anything and
you'll lose a friend permanently.
So don't be ashamed or shyabout you know, promoting
personal advocacy yeah, for yourown health yeah, yeah, amen to
that.

Rudy Fenner (01:05:07):
And you, you made me think I have a.
I have a guy that I work aroundand for the last two months I'm
sure it's been at least twomonths, maybe three I've heard a
cough from him.
That bothers me, because itdoesn't sound like a cold.
You shouldn't have a cough, butit's a cough and I think it's
so regular to him.

(01:05:27):
He's not even noticing, and soI gotta say something that's the
call to action is not only forme, but to stop sitting, looking
, listening, observing and justkeeping it to myself, because
sometimes people just need alittle bit, a little urge and a
little encouragement, a littlepositive whatever, just to move

(01:05:49):
them in the direction of havingthis stuff checked.
Because you're right, David,there ain't no such thing as
just a cough.
Nobody just coughs.

David Lottahall (01:05:56):
You just breathe, you just blink, you
don't just cough.

Rudy Fenner (01:05:59):
So we cannot always thank you.
We can't thank you enough forjoining us.
Family history, PSA, earlyscreenings talk, talk, talk,
talk, talk, talk about what youexperienced and listen to what
other people experienced,encourage, love and care for
each other.
Thank you for joining us againOfficially, Fenner Agile Always

(01:06:23):
- ".
As always, the barbershopsegment of our podcast.
We thank you so much.
We love you.
Be blessed and do right.
Live long.
I want to see you on the trackwhen we're in our 90s.
Y'all be blessed, bye-bye.

Marley Rowe (01:06:43):
Officially Fenner.
Thanks you for joining us.
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