#162 | Building Your Brand Without the Cringe, with Amanda Blesing - Agile Ideas

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fatimah Abbouchi (00:00):
You're listening to Agile Ideas, the
podcast hosted by FatimahAbbouchi.
For anyone listening out therenot having a good day, please
know there is help out there.
Hi everyone and welcome back toanother episode of Agile Ideas.
I'm CEO AMO, mental healthambassador and your host.

(00:21):
Before I get into today's guestin today's episode, I will say
that I missed the consistentpush of an episode in the last
month and normally I wouldrelease these every couple of
weeks and I missed a fortnight.
And the reason I missed afortnight is because I've been

(00:42):
really busy working on somereally exciting things across a
range of different projects,because you'll be the first to

(01:07):
know and get all the insightsand all the giveaways, goodies
and information as well.
So make sure you're checked inand subscribe.
So now on to today's guest, whois someone who truly knows what
it means to lead from the frontand bring others with her.
Let me introduce Amanda Blesing,a former CEO turned Fempreneur,

(01:29):
now a sought after executivecoach, speaker and mentor.
Amanda is an expert in careeracceleration, leadership
presence and personal branding,but what really sets her apart
is how she helps high performing, rather professionals promote
themselves with confidence,without the cringe.
We all could use some help inthat space.

(01:51):
She's on a mission to help moretalented individuals be seen,
heard and recognised, not justfor their hard work but for the
value that they bring.
Her blogs spark conversation,her webinars earn rave reviews,
and her one on one mentoring hashelped countless leaders step
into their power and own theirspace.
From navigating impostersyndrome to crafting an elevator

(02:12):
pitch that actually lands,Amanda brings powerful insights
and practical strategies to thetable, and today she's here to
share them with us, so pleasejoin me in welcoming Amanda to
the show.
Amanda, thank you so much forjoining.

Amanda Blesing (02:28):
Fatimah, I'm delighted to be here.

It's been a while, I think, I've been
following your journey onlineand seeing you pop up regularly
with all the insights andthoughts you're sharing and
knowledge, and we really neverconnected until now.
So I'm really excited.
There's lots to cover and Iguess the general audience here
will probably appreciate some ofthese insights because it's not
topics we normally cover, so Ithink that's going to be really

(02:51):
exciting for them.

Oh, I'm excited about that because sometimes
when I speak about my own things, just like you and your
listeners, we are so close toour own expertise that we forget
that other people find itinteresting.
So I'm really excited thatwe're new, we're going to be
discussing interesting things,and that you're excited about
hearing some of what I have toshare.

And I'll make sure that I ask you some
questions for my own selfishbenefit, because I know you have
some really good wisdom toshare.
So let's start there.
Why don't you give us a two,three minute background about
where you started your careerand your experience and sort of
what brings you here today interms of, like, your career
journey?

Great.
So I have a really diversebackground and initially I used
to apologise for that, but inactual fact, I think now in more
.
You know we live in 2025.
And I think it's okay in more.
You know we live in 2025.
And I think it's okay.
It's normalised to be amulti-potential or a
multi-passionate.

(03:51):
It's actually normalised, andI'm a really big advocate for
having a broad base in yourcareer.
However, my own career I guessthat the career pathway started
in the association sector, thepeak body sector, and I, where I
started working, I transitionedfrom the fitness industry into

(04:12):
the peak body sector, in thepeak body for fitness
professionals, and so that'sthat's where it started really,
and I loved that.
I was running conferences, Iwas running trade shows, I was
getting exposed to all the bestpractice and new ideas and
amazing global speakers in XFactor because of the
conferencing, but my career thensort of progressed through the

(04:33):
association sector.
There was the fitnessprofessionals.
There was a time when I wasrunning an expo in cinema and
movies and things like that andfilm, and then I went to the Law
Institute of Victoria where Iran their PD department,
Insurance and FinanceProfessionals Institute, Global

(04:55):
Foundation, and then perhaps mylast executive role was as the
CEO of SOCAP Australia.
Now, the one thing that all ofthese peak bodies have in common
is that we help professionalsbe more professional.
We were providing thoseopportunities for professionals
to showcase their career,showcase their expertise, to

(05:19):
stand up in front of peers andsay, actually here's a case
study I'd like to share and so,or you know, here's a project
that I worked on that's worthyof speaking about.
And one thing I noticed wasthat all throughout this, when
we'd call for papers, 10 men hadput their hand up and only one
woman or I'd call for awardnominations, and the women were

(05:44):
running around nominating theirjunior staff which is the right
thing to do, you know, in termsof sustainability for the sector
but perhaps were then worn out,or maybe that was code for
imposter syndrome maybe weren'tthen ready or didn't have enough
time to write their ownnomination and all of a sudden,

(06:04):
I went.
You know what?
I have had years and years ofexperience in helping men and
women stand out, showcase theircareers, feature, build their
visibility, build their brand.
I think I want to do thisspecifically.
I focus predominantly on women,although I do have a few male
clients and, yeah, it'sincredibly rewarding.

It's so interesting.
It's always good to hear wheresomething starts and I think
it's very interesting becausethe culmination of the different
skill sets, I can see how theywould help people.
Like you know, if I think backto my early years, a lot of
leaders or people are thrustinto leadership roles and
they're really not given anyguidance, support, training.

(06:51):
I mean.
Unless you put your hand up togo and do some sort of three,
four day training or you do anmba, there's not really much out
there.
How has that sort of umtrajectory for leaders changed
from when you started doing thisto now?
Have you seen more opportunityout there for leaders to learn
some of these skills?

well, it is interesting, isn't it?
That's so much and we talkabout it a lot in, you know, in
learning and development around.
How you know, often people arepromoted because they're good at
their skill set and they'repromoted into a management or
leadership position, but notnecessarily given the training
or understand that leadership isnot just leadership.
There's all this uh learninghow to influence, learning how

(07:32):
to navigate the politics,learning harder that it's
important.
You've got, you've got apersonal brand.
Whether you like it or not,whether you want one or not,
you've got to lean into that.
Uh, learning how to showcaseand represent your organisation.
So, no, those things stillaren't taught particularly well.
I think we as a society, westill value sitting at your desk

(07:55):
and doing hard work.
It's a cultural narrative.
Certainly here in Australia andI'm pretty sure elsewhere, we
still really value sitting atour desk and doing hard work and
we still look a little bitsceptically at those people who
are going out for the lunchesand networking and schmoozing,
even though the research showsthat well networked CEOs

(08:16):
actually deliver better companyperformance.
Hello, go figure.
But we don't teach networkingand yet it's an essential skill.
So I'm not sure if thatanswered your skill, your
question, but I think it's worthtalking about because it's
something it's this stuff that Iwork on in this area.
That I work on not necessarilystrict leadership, but it's

(08:38):
really important to your careeras a leader 100%.

I think you're bang on with regards to, like
the networking, peopleunderestimate the value that
that brings for you know, likeyou would mention brand, which I
wanted to touch on in a second,but just the importance of that
networking and building that.
But a lot of people areactually too afraid to your
earlier comment around impostersyndrome probably too afraid to
step out, I guess, of theircomfort zone, to go in into

(09:05):
these environments and intothese situations.
What would you say to someonewho maybe is feeling a bit like
an imposter and doesn't, maybehas the skills but doesn't feel
confident enough to step outside, you know, step over that line,
so to speak?

It can feel really threatening if you are an
introvert or you're worn out,exhausted, got a dose of
imposter syndrome.
Maybe you've been promotedreally fast and you're doubting
your seat at the table.
You don't know why you're thereand other people are
questioning you.
Or maybe you're speaking up inmeetings and no one's listening

(09:41):
to you.
All of that can reallyundermine your confidence and
make you really nervous aboutputting yourself out there.
So, in terms of getting overthat one of the one of the
things in terms of avoidingimposter syndrome I think we
need to look after ourselvesbetter and stop over proving
ourselves.
You know, if we're the, no onepromotes the worn out, flustered

(10:01):
executive up the back of theoffice.
Sometimes they they're doingall the work, but you know, no
one promotes the really worn out, flustered executive up the
back of the office.
We tend to promote the personwho's a little bit more like the
swan.
Maybe your feet are paddlingmadly underneath, but you're
swanning around.
However, we do need to leaninto that and sort of learn some

(10:21):
skills about, you know,becoming more visible.
Seth Godin said somethingreally wise once and I really
remember it.
It was like when you'restarting your journey, and I
think it was with relation topublic speaking.
He said that the first personthat you publicly speak to start

(10:46):
with your dog, and what hemeant was start small, and it's
the same with networking.
No one says you have to go tothe biggest and highest profile
networking event and throwyourself in and try and meet
people.
Meet yourself where you're atStart small, maybe start with
the smaller groups or start withpeers.
Or start where you're at startsmall.
Maybe start with the smallergroups or start with peers.

(11:07):
Or start where you're morecomfortable.
Learn some conversationalskills, have a nice little
elevator pitch ready to go soyou can introduce yourself in a
comfortable way that you itmakes you feel confident and you
know.
Aim to get one or two businesscards, not 10, because quality
conversation works really reallywell.

So I hope that's helpful for your
listeners For sure.
I mean, you never really knowhow to tackle imposter syndrome,
but I think your examples thereare really helpful,
particularly even as someonewho's gone through this journey
myself.
You never think you're enoughor maybe you're overanalyzing,
you're being a bit of aperfectionist, and those sorts

(11:50):
of things do creep up on you andthen make you feel like that.
Despite that background you'vegot.
You talk a lot about in yourwork, about the fempreneur.
What's the fempreneur?

So, all right, I love the term fempreneur, I am
a fempreneur, I work in thefempreneur.
So, all right, I love the termfempreneur, I am a fempreneur, I
work in the fempowerment space.
I an entrepreneur whopredominantly works with women,
so, uh, uh, I'm passionate aboutgender equity, helping women
win pay rises, promotions,better opportunities, and often
women will reach out to me whenthey've had that aha moment Like

(12:24):
, oh my gosh, I've spent myentire career making other
people look good, but I haven'tdone the same for myself.
So that's where I step in and,you know, I help them develop a
targeted and powerful approachto navigating this next phase of
their career, and my goal is tohalve their effort but double
their impact, because I thinkwomen are busy enough.

(12:45):
There's a lot of well-meaning,poor advice out there that
actually doesn't necessarilywork for women.
Yes, I had one client told togo and straighten her hair
before she would be takenseriously.
I had another client told by bya manager that if she was
serious about a promotion, sheshould probably consider getting
Botox.
Like both of these bits offeedback really undermine your

(13:08):
confidence.
This is why I'm passionateabout what I do and that's why I
step into the fempreneur space.
I work in fempowerment.

I predominantly work with women
and I help them step into thebigger arena, navigate pay rises
, better opportunities and I'm abit of an entrepreneur and and
then like thinking about thoseexamples you just gave, that
that's just going to make peoplelike, like those examples,
retreat and and you know youtalk a lot about in about I can

(13:42):
see your new book recentlyInvisible to Invincible.
I would envision that thosewomen and or men in those
situations where they're beingchallenged like that, or given
this unconstructive criticismthat they then want to retreat
and become effectively invisible, how do you help them regain
their confidence?

And you're absolutely right.
That sort of feedback justchips away at your identity.
It chips away at your identity.
It chips away at yourconfidence it does.
It makes you want to like.
If you don't like who I am as aperson, you know how am I ever
going to get ahead?
It makes you feel helpless.
So the work I do really is a lotaround understanding exactly

(14:25):
what your brand is,understanding exactly how you're
coming across, like gettingspecific feedback with
behavioral examples.
We don't want feedback that'ssubjective.
We want feedback that's reallyobject and we want feedback
that's couched in ways that'sabout helping us get to the next
level, not necessarily feedbackabout how you can do your job

(14:49):
better.
You probably get enough of that.
You probably get enough of thatat work.
So the feedback that I work onwith you on or with my clients
on, is how to get you to thenext level.
So the feedback is alwayscouched in that way.
So the feedback is alwayscouched in that way and we want
to, you know, focus on theprocess.
We want to give feedback aboutthe process, the policy, the

(15:10):
output, not the person.
And that sort of feedback aboutappearance.
It's missing the point.
It's missing the point.
So perhaps the point?
I don't know, I'm wondering, Idon't really really know, but
let's talk about the curly hairone.
So the woman who was told she'dneed it to straighten her hair
well, the feedback might thismight have been about should

(15:33):
have probably been about workingon how she communicated in
meetings, rather than feedbackabout something about curly hair
, because I think it was mighthave had something to do with
she was coming across a bit wildand too energetic for the
executive circles in herorganisations.
So that's more aboutcommunication, yeah, rather than

(15:56):
curly hair yeah, exactly so.

Aesthetics is just an easy way to.
It's a cop-out, fundamentally,and, like you said, they're
probably trying to communicatesomething else.
They just don't know how to doit, that's exactly right and
we've all got little blind spots.

So feedback is really really helpful.
But feedback about personalthings like that is really
unconstructive.

Oh, 100%.
And so what you mentioned SethGodin, the king of marketing and
branding and all those thingsOne of the things that I hear a
lot is around branding and oftenI think people don't really
understand what branding is, oryour personal brand is, and I
think sometimes people feel thatthe personal brand and putting

(16:37):
yourself out there and spruikingyourself out there may come
across showy or, you know, justreally conceited in the way that
you know it presents itself.
So can you tell us so those arenot clear what is a personal
brand and why is it so important, regardless of what you want to
do in your career and life?

yeah, okay.
So I'm going to talk about twoprinciples.
I'm really glad you raised that, because it's really important,
and we've all got a brand,whether we like it or not,
whether we want one or not.
And we get to choose, though,whether it's really important.
And we've all got a brand,whether we like it or not,
whether we want one or not.
And we get to choose, though,whether it's a Ford or a
Rolls-Royce, like we, and that'swhat you know.
I want us to step into the fact, to the space of okay, let's

(17:16):
choose what we want our brand tobe.
So how do we show up for the jobwe want, not the job we have?
How do we present ourselves?
What are the topics we'retalking about?
Who's in our network?
How do we showcase ourexperience and the typical
problems we solve, thedifference we make and the value

(17:37):
we add?
So personal brand is one thing.
It's to do with reputation,it's to do with our results,
it's to do, you know, even ourcv and linkedin goes into
personal brand.
But also there there's anotheraspect which I think fits into
the self-promotion piece, andthis is positioning, and I think

(17:58):
people sometimes like they'reon linkedin going.
I don't like the way people aresaying you know, look at me,
look at me, I've just won anaward.
Well, that's pureself-promotion.
Self-promotion and positioningthat go together really well is
when we take the self out ofself-promotion and stay in

(18:19):
service instead.
So I too, sometimes I'm feelingexhausted or you you know, just
worn out and I'm like I do notwant to go on LinkedIn anymore.
Oh, I'm so tired, I don't wantto put myself out there.
In case someone says somethinga bit snarky at me or is a
negative comment that I don'tknow how to handle, or I just
can't deal with it, or I've gotnothing, or I've got nothing

(18:39):
good to say.
And so then I pick myself up bythe bootstraps and go back to
my book and I practice what Ipreach, and that's take the self
out of self-promotion.
How might this content, howmight what I share, be helpful
to my network?
So delighted to share that Ijust won this award for gender

(19:02):
equity.
This is a pretend script orpost.
You know, delighted to sharethat I just won this award for
gender equity.
This is a pretend script orpost.
You know, delighted to sharethat I just won this award for,
you know, in the gender equityspace, here's three ways, three
reasons why these awards arereally important.
It does this, it does that, itdoes that.
What do you think?
And that would be a really goodself-promotion positioning post

(19:23):
.
It positions you as an expert.
It provides a bit of insight,some thought leadership, maybe
even a how-to.
You know.
Here are three ways you couldnominate yourself for an award.
So you can see how you can doit.
Just stick to being, take theself out of self-promotion and
stay in service.

Love that stay in service.
I think it's so important,particularly on platforms like
LinkedIn, which are absolutelyflooded with content and all
sorts of content.
You mentioned something reallyimportant that I've struggled
with over the years and, as youknow, you continue.
You know you continue to growin in the work we do in our
podcast and speaking as you've,if you've spent a lot of time
doing negative comments.

(20:04):
So a lot of people are eithergoing to be in two camps they're
going to be in the camp wherethey don't put themselves out
there at all because they'reafraid of what, in the words of
Gary Vee, sally Happy Pants overon Twitter is going to say, or
they just limit themselvesbecause they're impacted

(20:24):
negatively by a negative comment.
Thoughts on that and what'sbeen your experience negative
comments.

I like LinkedIn because there are fewer negative
comments there are no, not youknow.
Let's say that they are stillthere, but they are fewer.
I think it's a.
It is is a professionalplatform.
I highly encourage my executiveclients use LinkedIn.
It's there's guardrails.
Also, if someone says somethinga bit snarky, it tends to impact

(20:56):
negatively on their career, notyours.
Yes, I'd agree with that.
Yes, and I think that that youknow that safer environment that
LinkedIn provides is reallyimportant for those beginning
their branding journey, perhapsthinking about sharing some
thought leadership.
Perhaps they're even thinkingabout posting your way into the
job you want not necessarily thejob you have.

(21:18):
You know, being strategic aboutthe content that you post,
aligning it with your careeraspirations.
But I think, yes, there will besome negative comments.
If they're really bad, you candelete them, and that's a
relatively new feature onLinkedIn.
You didn't used to be able todo that, so you can just delete
the comment.
If it's really bad, you canreport the comment.

(21:40):
There will be a time whensomeone may comment negatively
on your content and I think thetrick is to be curious if they
do and ask a question back.
You know, sorry to hear thatthat's been your experience.
Have you found any solutionsLike thank you so much for your
insight.
I did not realise that was thesituation.

(22:00):
I really appreciate you takingthe time to tell us about that.
So I think that you know beinga little bit curious, a little
bit of graciousness in the faceof some of the negative, or just
ignore them, because the lessattention you pay to really
negative comments, the better itis.
I do think, though, that, um,sometimes we're a little bit

(22:23):
worried that lots of people seeour content.
Yes, you should be so lucky.
When you post on LinkedIn, inactual fact it's only shown to
about 9% or 10% of your networkwho are on at that time.
So if you post, you don't havea big network and you post on
LinkedIn, it's not shown broadlyto everyone first, it's shown

(22:45):
to your network first.
It's not shown broadly toeveryone first, it's shown to
your network first.
If your network engaged withinthe first two hours and they
might like, they might comment,they might reshare, and that's
the gold standard.
You actually want that.
If your network respond, uh,and, and that linkedin treats
that sort of as an endorsementof your content, that it's
quality, that it's worth worthyof being on the platform, it's

(23:05):
worthy of being on the platform,it's worthy of being on the
feed, and then then it shows itto more people.
But initially you're probablyonly going to be seen your posts
.
It's only going to be seen byyour network.

I think it's really good advice and it's not
black and white as youarticulate.
So I think the curiosity you'reright they might be asking
something that may come acrossoffensive, maybe they've
misunderstood, so I guess goingin with that approach is really
great.
As you said, you can respondand after that point, decide not
to engage further and thenobviously you got the option of
deleting on any platform really.
But I think it's good to, yeah,just be curious because a lot

(23:42):
of times there are some commentsthat come through I've
certainly had them, I'm sureyou've had them where they may
have identified something inyour comment or your post or
your piece of work that you maynot have considered, and they
may have some thoughts thatreally shape or reframe what
you've articulated.
And I've seen people takeconversations offline together
to deep dive into it, so itbecomes constructive.

(24:03):
So I think that's, yeah,definitely some worthy advice.
Yeah, I really like thatapproach.

Yeah, definitely some, uh, worthy advice yeah, I
really like that approach,fatima.
Actually that's a really goodapproach.
You know, offer to take theconversation into the dms.
Uh, you know, because I thinkthat that's right.
I, I too, have shared contentand it's entirely been taken out
of context or entirely was notwhat I meant.
Yes, like you know, andsometimes I, because I will

(24:27):
repeat content every now andthen, like you know, a couple of
years later I'll reshare.
Sometimes it was a bit ofcontent that was really well
received two years ago and thennow it's getting all the wrong
sort of attention and theconversation is the comments are
just like going, really I'mspending a lot of time
responding and reframing andjust like going, really I'm

(24:48):
spending a lot of timeresponding and reframing.
And if that happens, I find thebest approach is like just
delete the post.
It's okay, you're allowed to,you know, respond, clarify your
point.
You know this was not my intent.
Blah, blah.
Delete the post, you don't youdon't need that in your day job?

no, absolutely , and, like I said, you can
respond to things sometimes, butI mean once.
When there's not a quality inresponse or a comment, I'm not
going to give it time andattention.
So, um, I wanted to just touchon one more question around
branding that I'm curious about.
So you've developed an elevatorpitch formula.
Now we hear that in businessall the time.
What's your business elevatorpitch?
But what is an elevator pitchformula?

(25:23):
Can you kind of explain it tous and tell us how it can be
tailored for different audiences?

I love elevator pitches.
I know that that's notnecessarily popular and you know
some people are like oh,elevator pitches, they're
dreadful, but they are.
When done well, they are fun,they are playful.
I did one for you earlier todayand you may or may not have
recognised it, but I've got afew formulas that I use.

(25:50):
The formula that I'll probablythat I will share with your
listeners today is that what arethe problems you solve, the
difference you make and thevalue you add.
All right, that's the basicframework.
What are the typical problemsyou solve, the difference you
make and the value you add.
So of course, you're going tosay hi, you know, I'm Amanda

(26:12):
Blesing, I'm the founder of theShe-Suite Club, a whole heap
like a leadership coach, butjust for women.
You know, when you wake up oneday and you go, oh my gosh, I've
spent my entire career makingother people look good.
That was my problem.
Well, what I do is provide astrategic approach, a powerful

(26:33):
approach to branding, to halveyour effort but double your
impact.
That was your problem.
Difference you make and thenthe value you add is where you
might tell a story or a casestudy.
You add is where you might tella story or a case study.

(26:53):
So recently I worked with aclient and I am delighted to say
, after working on her interview, her CV.
A number of role plays onpreparing for curly questions
and navigating misassumptions orbias in the interview process,
making sure she came across inthe right way.
She was appointed CEO of a veryhigh-profile organisation.

Wow, that's really good and you're right now
.
I think back to what you saidat the beginning, which is a
very eloquently put introduction, I would say, and it wasn't a
lot of waffle.
We've had a few of those wherepeople just you just don't
really know where to start, butI think it's important the way
you've articulated it because,as you said at the top of our

(27:34):
interview, that you've done alot of different things and your
experience depth and breadth isbroad, so I think that helps.
What do you suggest whensomeone who, for example, like
me, I run a small business, Iwork in corporate, I have a
not-for-profit, all of thosesort of things do you focus in
on that a specific problem,depending on the person you're

(27:55):
speaking to?
Would you summarise and includeall of those?
How would you approach that?

yes, you've got to be really specific.
So you need to know who youraudience is.
So you know if you're going toa networking function, might you
may consider, you know, ifyou're going to a networking
function, you may consider thenetworking function that you're
going to.
So the example that you givewould be really tailored for
that audience.
Yeah, I think that's just smart.

(28:20):
Just like you would have a, youknow, if you were having a
regular conversation, being ableto tailor your pitch based on
having a regular conversation,being able to tailor your pitch
based on, like for yourself, whoare the clients that you might
want to win from this activity.

Yes, okay, that makes, rather than just
what some people do say andspray, and then you get quite
overwhelmed with you don't knowwhere to hook into for what
they've introduced or whatthey've said in their supposed
elevator pitch.
So I think that's worthy advice.
Um, you've done a lot ofspeaking.
I was looking at your profileand this week and you've had
numerous speaking engagementsand done a lot of work in that

(28:55):
space across differentorganisations.
What is the number one, or, youknow, top one or two questions
that are the most commonly asked, the question from the audience
for me, yeah, from the audience.

Oh, that's a good one, all right.
So, to be honest, the elevatorpitch question, it's all.
People are really curious aboutcreating their own elevator
pitch.
I often get that one and I, youknow, often get the question
about you know, how are going tofix gender, gender inequality,

(29:28):
uh, you know, what can we do?
I think that, um, people dofeel helpless.
I think women feel a little bithelpless, um, and I know that
our male peers sometimes don'tknow how to help.
So it's actually a really goodquestion and I think it's
relevant for everyone.
How can we fix it?

(29:48):
You know sometimes it's.
Do we really want to?
How can we fix it?
It's a systemic issue, but thatshouldn't stop us trying or
shouldn't stop us doing our own,playing our own individual part
.
But it is a systemic issue anduntil corporates, organisations,
companies really examinepolicies, processes and really

(30:13):
unpack what's going on, genderequity is a long way off.

Do you think it's improved over the last 10,
15 years?

Oh yeah, there's definitely been progress,
definitely been progress.
Although, because I work atthat executive level, I tend to
work with C-level executives Atthe very, very top.
There are still very few femaleCEOs in the ASX-listed 300.
So we've still got a long wayto go.

(30:42):
Unfortunately, there'sdefinitely more women in earlier
, you know, lower down on therung there's definitely more
women in uh, earlier, you know,lower down on the rung there's
definitely more women earlier onthe rung, and one of the
statistics that I was reallysurprised about the other day
that I learned was that in inmajor cities around the globe,
what's really interesting at themoment is young women are out

(31:03):
earning young men.
Now, that's not an ideal either.

yes, equity yes, yes, I did actually hear
that on the diary of a ceopodcast not that long ago, at
least in the uk, in the us.
So, um, it's interesting thatit's yeah, not just um, it's
more universal.
It seems in a lot of countriesat the moment that that's
happening.

Look, of course I'm going to advocate for women
to get more money.
I'm glad that young women aregetting more money.
It's fantastic.
It's great for society.
But gender equity, you know,pay equity I think that that's
what we're really fighting for.

Yeah, absolutely, and we'd probably
talk a lot about that and spenda lot more time.
But I am conscious that I knowthat that can be a political
conversation that you know,people are not necessarily
always aligned on.
So I think we'll let thepolitics play out and let them
work through that.
You did.
You did, in your early speakingcareer, have a bit of a mishap.

(32:03):
You said it didn't go as wellas planned.
Tell us how.
What happened, when were you?
What went?

wrong.
Well, it was in the very earlydays of my speaking career and I
had been booked to speak inSingapore.
But this was my practice gigbefore I went.
So I'd been booked to speak inSingapore.
I was really, really excitedtowards the oil and gas industry
.
You know, they had a specialwomen's conference as an adjunct

(32:33):
to the main plenary and I wasreally excited to go and speak
and I thought, well, I'll justmanufacture a few audiences
closer to home.
So one of my former boardmembers from my former executive
career one of my former boardmembers said I will bring all my
staff in and they rated me,they thought I was pretty
amazing and they were like we'llbring all our staff in and you

(32:56):
can practice with our staff.
Well, I was so nervous.
I think I put a lot of pressureon myself.
Do you do that too, fatima?
Oh, 100%, I think I put a lotof pressure on myself.
Do you do that too, fatima?
and that, oh, yeah, a hundredpercent yeah, I put a lot of
pressure on myself to be perfectbecause in my role, you might
remember, I had planned a lot ofconferences so I had seen the

(33:17):
best of the best and I'd brief,booked and briefed more speakers
than most people have had hotdinners.
So I put a lot of pressure onmyself to be perfect and quite
the opposite was the the truth.
I spoke so fast because I'mpassionate about my topic and I
had so much content to getthrough.
We got to the end and I couldsee these blank faces and

(33:42):
everyone left the room, justdead, dead face.
Everyone just left the room,you know, at an.
Everyone just left the room,you know, at an appropriate time
, but no one came and saidanything and everyone just left
and I was like whoops, it was atelling sign, but hey, let's
face it, it was important.
It was a practice session, itwasn't a paid speaking gig and I

(34:04):
think that that was also reallyimportant, but it gave me great
feedback.

Yes, a hundred percent.
I can find myself speakingquite fast a lot of times.
So I experienced that and I hada similar situation about 15
years ago where I got asked tospeak at an event and I just
recall it going so badly thatpartway through it was sort of
like a two-part speakingengagement.
I just felt like running thefire alarm in the building

(34:30):
because I just felt like beingswallowed up and spat out.
It was just horrendous becausethe right um preparation hadn't
happened and, like you described, we tried to go through all the
content.
Quite it was just, it was adisaster.
So what?
What did you take from that?
And and I guess, implement,implement to perhaps even on the
content side, to improve,moving forward.

(34:50):
What did you put in place tofix that so that it didn't
happen again?

clearly, Well, it was really interesting that I
had provided too much contentbecause, having booked and
briefed a lot of speakers in thepast and seen a lot of
conference speakers, I had seena clear difference.
In fact, it was a genderdifference.
Now the men would would notnecessarily jam-pack their

(35:14):
conference presentations full ofas much content and would
generally, uh, engage with theaudience more.
And the women in our desire toprove how our worse we were
jam-packing our content.
So there, I made the exact samemistake I had been observing
for years.
So that was the big takeawayfor me Slow down and have less

(35:35):
content and, in actual fact,focus on connecting with the
audience, engaging, making surethe audience feel seen, heard
and valued, because, in actualfact, that is the key message.
I want my clients to feel seen,heard and valued, and that's
often why they work with mebecause they don't feel seen,
heard or valued.

(35:56):
So I need to treat my audiencewith the same respect.

And so I can see that you wrote a lot about
that in your book.
Tell us a little bit about thepremise behind the book and
where the idea come from and howthat differs to your other
books.

Okay, so this book, there we go.
This book, invisible toInvincible.
Yes, that is me on the frontcover.
You might remember, I mentionedI had an early career in the
fitness industry and I taughtyoga.
So, yeah, that is me on thefront cover.
And we had a lot of fun.
Well done, we had a lot of funwith the photographer creating
and getting that image.

(36:31):
Then my third book that's goingto be coming out soon, it will
not have as creative a photo,however the idea came.
So this book is aself-promotion handbook, so it's
all about how to self-promote,particularly for women.
I talk about the challengesthat women face when they are
more visible.
You know, when we put ourselvesout there, we run the risk of

(36:52):
being criticised.
We're damned when we do, yetdoomed when we don't.
However, you know, it's areally practical handbook.
But the idea came because I hadwitnessed, I guess, a series of
media attacks on a very highprofile woman, and I'd seen this
happen.
She had been chairing the boardof a financial institution.

(37:16):
The financial institution hadbeen misbehaving and the Royal
Banking Commission had, you know, named them and sort of drawn
attention to some prettyshocking systemic issues that
were going on.
And, yeah, there were someabsolute failures.
But the media a select portionof the media, were running with
criticism of this woman's beautyregime and how she networked

(37:40):
her way to the top, as thoughthey were the things that were
at fault.
And it comes back to this whenwe criticise people on their
appearance or on their person,it really doesn't help, and
that's why I wrote the bookbecause I wanted to make sure
that women did lean into highprofile roles, that people feel
confident when they're puttingthemselves out there, that

(38:01):
they're not going to becriticised personally and here's
some risk mitigation to be ableto navigate that more easily
criticise personally and here'ssome risk mitigation to be able
to navigate that more easily.

Yeah, that was a very challenging time, um, in
the banking financial sector.
I recall, um, I recall some ofthose stories and you're right,
it's so interesting and ithappens repeatedly where, where
women are targeted based on howthey, their appearance, is um
and not not never, never thesame with with males, and it's
really frustrating, especiallyas a, you know, young woman, you

(38:29):
know climbing corporate ladder,you know trying to grow a
career and all these things, andthen you're faced with that.
It really does make you feel um, as you say, invisible.
So I think this is going to bereally helpful for people and
and what's been the um mostsurprising feedback you've
gotten so far from those who'veread it, People love that it's
practical.

So there's lots of worksheets in there, lots of
practical activities, and peoplelove that it's practical.
It's not rocket science, likeself-promotion isn't rocket
science.
But you know, I guess I teach astrategic approach.
I talk about be visible andstrategic.

(39:11):
We don't want to exhaustourselves racing around a
networking function day afterday after day.
We want to be strategic infront of the right audience at
the right time and the rightplace with those really good key
messages.
So that is it in a nutshell.

I learned that the hard way.
Recently.
Actually, I was starting toattend a series of sort of
startup mixes and other similarevents and I realised I'm
spending all this after hours,time away from my daughter,
attending these events, notrealising that at this point in
life, that those are not theaudience that I actually need
for what I'm doing my goal.

(39:46):
So I think that's reallyimportant and really understated
.
I think people probably don'treally connect the two together,
so I think that's a really goodcall out.
Yeah, great.
So thinking about sorry, Siridecides to talk midway through
um.
So thinking about those, um,those professionals and, as you
said, predominantly the women,but this can apply to anyone.

(40:07):
What advice do you have forprofessionals looking to pivot
their career or step into newleadership roles?
Maybe they're uncertain orthey're not quite sure.
Maybe they've been in the samerole for a long time and they
want to go into their ownbusiness.
What sort of advice can yougive?

them?
Okay, good question, and it'sone I get asked a lot.
At the moment we're in a littlebit of an economic downturn.
So if you're thinking aboutchanging, see if you can get
your current company to investin the change, in you first, as
in try a special project inanother area or a secondment to

(40:44):
another area within your owncompany, because you've already
got that trust uh, trustedrelationship, you've already got
a brand within the organisation, so maybe you can get some
experience and exposure tosomething different in your
current organisation before youspringboard into a new
organisation.
Now, the only reason I say thatbecause in a in an economic
downt, organisations tend tohire people who've done the job

(41:08):
before.
So if you're looking to pivot,see how you can gain some
exposure first, maybe in yourcurrent organisation or a
voluntary role or on a board ora committee somehow, before you
necessarily try and make the bigleap.
Of course, never say die.
I'm sure that there are peopleout there who have done that and
done it successfully, and soit's just a word of warning and

(41:32):
I think it's really helpful at acertain point in your career,
get your CV writtenprofessionally.
Your CV and your LinkedInprofile should actually scare
you a little bit with howamazing you sound.
Yeah, that is not lying, it'snot cheating, it's all factual.
It's just it.
We are too close to our ownexpertise, our own results.

(41:54):
We forget stuff.
That's like something comes upand we don't know how to write
about them.
We're either writing too manyboring facts and not enough
narrative, or too much narrativenarrative and no numbers.
Like it's much easier to havean, to have someone who's really
good at this to help you craftthe narrative, craft your career

(42:14):
tool.
So get someone to help you.
Plus, there's no point inwaiting until your dream role is
on the horizon and then goingoh my gosh, I'm going to spend
all this time updating my CV onthe weekend.
That's too late.
You need it done in advance.
You need to have a sharp careertoolkit ready to go well in

(42:35):
advance.

The CV and LinkedIn.
I'm not sure if you wouldadvise this as well, but they've
got to align because, yes, I'veseen I've interviewed people
where their CV and it's not thatit's just out of date, it's
just a completely differentroles, completely different
companies and it really is amismatch.
So I think, from a brandperspective, surely those two
have to be aligned yeah, that isdefinitely important in terms

(43:00):
of branding.

It has to be congruent.

You've got to be selling the same product yeah
, absolutely, and so, um, you'rethinking back to your journey
of becoming a ceo, you?
You have an interestingperspective about banning bossy.
Tell me more about what's banbossy, ban bossy.

Well, you might remember and it's a while ago
now but Cheryl Sandberg wrote abook called lean in and I I must
admit I was planning what to doafter my CEO-ship in the
association sector.
I'm thinking, what am I goingto do?
And then I had this idea aboutoh my gosh, I can help people
put themselves out therespeaking boards, awards,

(43:39):
accolades.
I can help them do all of thatsort of stuff because I've been
doing it for years.
I just specialise in thissector and in order to do that,
I read.
One of the books that I read inorder to prepare before I
launched my business was SherylSandberg and Lean In.
And she says ban bossy.
Why this resonated so much forme was because when I am under

(44:00):
stress, when I'm under pressure,sometimes I can get like a
little bit of a micromanagingbehavior going on.
I'm a bit direct and you know,sometimes people might not like
how bossy I become, but tellingsomeone that they're bossy, it's
just chastising them.
We need to ban that, thatlanguage.

(44:21):
We don't want to tell littlegirls they were bossy.
The reason I don't like it somuch is because when I was a kid
, my mum used to call me bossy.
You know, stop being bossy.
And so I, you know, reallyresonated for me that message,
and I I was like no, I'm on thisbandwagon too.
Let's ban bossy.
We don't want to tell littlegirls or young women or young
career-minded um uh executivesthat they're being bossy.

(44:45):
Let's really unpack the, thebehavior, what's going on here?
Really, let's give reallyspecific feedback rather than
just say you're being bossy.
Let's get rid of that word.

I love that book.
First of all, the lean in book.
It's fantastic and I do recallthat actually being spoken about
it's so interesting.
Like you, I was also told I wasvery bossy, by my family, by my
siblings, and I've never, everheard a man being told he's
bossy.

You're absolutely right.
It's a gendered response, isn'tit?
It's a response for littlegirls to you know.
Keep them playing in theirlanes and keep them behaving
nicely.
Because we do have societalexpectations on how a little
girl should behave and how alittle boy should behave.

We have, we have those expectations, so yeah
it's um, yeah, it's unfortunate, but hopefully, like you said,
it can be banned and I thinkit's getting better, but I
definitely won't be using thatwith my daughter.
I wanted to um touch on one ofthe things that I know.
You um in your, in your?
Um form, and when we were doingsome collecting of information,

(45:55):
you you have a story aboutcalling for papers and there was
a bold moment involving aconference call for papers and
you said yeah, can you tell usabout that?

I'm curious yeah , well, um, I think I alluded to
it earlier and there was thismoment.
I was sitting there and Iworked at the time.
I was working in a sector thatwas, in actual fact, I'd say,
heavily female dominated in alead, in leadership roles.
It was customer care,complaints, consumer affairs, so
you know, the women.

(46:26):
There were a lot of women inmanagement and leadership.
So it was very, veryinteresting.
So, as I I did allude to thisearlier, I'd call for papers for
the conference and 10 men hadput their hand up and they'd say
pick me.
You know, pick me, and um, and,and only one woman.
And what was really interesting, and this is perhaps, or I

(46:46):
think, what was reallyinteresting.
So the men understood that thiswas a game of pick me, can I
workshop the idea with you,amanda?
And they'd be sending me emailssaying here, you know, I've got
this idea.
What do you think Could wetailor it?
Blah, is this of interest?
But none of the women.
If they did email me, it had tobe with a fully fledged,

(47:08):
perfectly formed idea, thepricey, perfectly done, ready to
go.
And I think this needing tofeel like we're perfect all the
time, needing to be fullyprepared, you know, because
we're needing to overproveourselves, because we've got to
jump through more hoops in orderto be taken seriously, this has
consequences.

(47:28):
So that is where that storycomes from.
You know, next time someonecalls for paper for your
industry conference, I challengeyou, just say pick me, I've got
this idea.
It starts like this Wouldsomeone be willing to talk it
through with me?
I'd love to share this casestudy.

It's very interesting.
You say that there is aconference, which I won't name,
that I've submitted to speak ata few times.
I've had success in others, butthis particular one has often
given feedback that reallydoesn't make any sense.
And then you look at theiragenda and there's so much more,
you know, gender-based, malethan female speaking, and also

(48:07):
repetitive, and so it's reallyinteresting.
So I'm always curious, like howdo you get seen?
How does your speakingsubmission get seen?
How does it stand out?
How does it be?
You know be different.
So any tips on that for peoplethat are looking to speak at
conferences?

I even for my executive level clients not just
my, you know, women who runbusinesses but for my executive
level clients I say have a basicbio drafted, you know, get
someone to help you, get yourGPT to help you.
You know, it's amazing thetools that are out there at the
moment and also have one or twotopics in your back pocket that
are ready to go, like perhaps atitle, a subheading and three

(48:46):
bullet points about what youmight talk about.
As I said, it doesn't need tobe perfect, but have them ready
to go.
And the best tip is, you know,you know, email the conference
organisers.
The best pro tip I ever heardand I write about it in the book
is for those who do want totake their speaker career
seriously and they want to startdoing more speaking gigs, is

(49:07):
that it's sort of like a pro tipabout being on standby.
So you email the organiser, saytwo months before a conference,
and you say, hey, I realise thatsometimes, sometimes a speaker
can pull out at the last minuteand, hand on heart, I did have
one conference that I wasrunning where nine speakers
pulled out in the last monthbefore the event, like that's a

(49:29):
lot, and so, as the organiserwill probably appreciate knowing
that they've got someone onstandby.
So you say, hey, I realise thatsometimes speakers pull out at
the last minute.
I've got this topic that'salmost ready to go.
I've delivered it a couple oftimes internally to my
organisation and they reallylike it.

(49:50):
I'd be happy to share that withyour audience.
All I need is 48 hours noticeand I'd be happy to be there,
love it.

I'm going to steal that and apply it
immediately, because I thinkthere's a few conferences where
they're probably out of reach tosome degree, that seem a bit
out of reach and maybe that'sthe lack of confidence speaking
there.
But I think having that that'sa really good tip.
I love it.
I'm gonna definitely check outyour book to see what other tips
you've got in there like thatone.
Amanda, we're almost at the endof our time together.

(50:19):
My last question for you todayis there anything else you'd
like to share with our listeners, a call to action, a piece of
advice or a question to ponder?

In terms of your branding and career journey.
I think the biggest thing thatgets in the way is that we just
don't do it.
We don't take action on it.
I think we're very good atdoing our job.
We know the importance ofwork-life balance, so we work at
that.
We know the importance ofhaving an identity outside of

(50:50):
work.
We're busy.
We know the importance of doinga really good job at work, but
one of the things that we forgetto do is focus on that career
strategy, and I really encouragepeople to really have a think
about where are you going, whatare you aiming for?
Because how will you know whenyou get there?
If you don't know what you'reaiming for, you won't even know

(51:10):
if you're on the right track.
So have a think about it.
Do something that's like oneyear, three or five years, maybe
even 10 years.
Map it out.
There's, you know, there's abunch of things you could have
underpinning that, like what youwant, the why you want it, how
much money you want, why youwant it, how much money you want
, what are the gaps or the stepsthat you might need to have
done in order to get there.

(51:31):
Map that out and share it withyour boss.
It's so important, it's sohelpful.
Your boss won't necessarily, ifthey're a good one, won't feel
threatened.
They'll want to help youachieve that, and it's an
amazing tool.
So I think that would be theadvice.
Do you have some sort of planfor your career?

It's a really good call out.
It relates to a comment one ofmy other guests had recently,
whether he talked about treatingyour career as a project and
actually planning it out likeyou would a typical project,
whether you're building a house.
So it really resonated withpeople.
But key word in what you justso it really resonated with
people, but keyword in what youjust said action.
I love that.
Don't consume all this content,all this information and not do

(52:12):
anything with it.
So I think that will definitelyreally resonate.
Where is the best place forpeople to connect with you and
find you?

I'm all over LinkedIn, so connect with me on
LinkedIn.
Mention that you heard thispodcast, because my profile is
locked down a bit because I'vegot a lot of connections and I
but I love to connect withpeople.
So, just you know, work yourway around the follow button and
say, hey, I saw you on Fatimahpodcast.
I really liked this thing yousaid here.

(52:42):
I love getting feedback likethat and would you like to
connect?
And I'd be happy to connectwith you.
So, LinkedIn, I have my ownwebsite, amandableesing.
com.
That's a blessing in disguise,Blesing with one S.

And yeah, I'd love to connect with your
listeners, amazing, and I'llmake sure to include that in the
show notes and also referenceto your book.
I wish you the best of successin the next book.
Looking to reading a bit moreabout that, but otherwise I
thank you and appreciate allyour time today.

Thank you, Fatimah, wonderful to be here.
Thank you so much for listeningto this podcast.
Please share this with someoneor rate it if you enjoyed it.
Don't forget to follow us onsocial media and to stay up to
date with all things Agile Ideas.
Go to our website, www.
agilemanagementofficecom.
I hope you've been able tolearn, feel or be inspired today

(53:35):
.
Until next time, what's yourAgile Idea?

All Episodes

#162 | Building Your Brand Without the Cringe, with Amanda Blesing

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#162 | Building Your Brand Without the Cringe, with Amanda Blesing