November 14, 2025 • 57 mins
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What if your home could be the key to rediscovering your authentic self? Michelle Hoff believes it can. As a pioneering "home coach" with over 30 years of experience working in people's living spaces, Michelle has developed a revolutionary approach to decluttering that goes far beyond organizing tips or storage solutions.
Michelle's journey began with a commercial cleaning business and evolved through roles in home furnishings, interior design, and life coaching. This unique combination of skills led to her book "Compassionate Decluttering," which took 12 years to complete—a testament to the depth and care she brings to this work. The premise is powerful: our homes reflect our internal landscape, and by mindfully addressing our spaces, we can address ourselves.
For those navigating aging in place, Michelle's insights are particularly valuable. She emphasizes that decluttering is the essential first step to creating a safe, functional home that supports independence. The process isn't merely physical; it requires addressing emotional attachments, guilt, obligations, and the fear of making mistakes. Her compassionate approach involves looking inward to clarify your vision before addressing your possessions, practicing self-forgiveness, and—critically—assembling a supportive team.
The transformation extends beyond tidy closets. As clients release items that no longer serve them, they consistently report feeling lighter, freer, and more energized. This newfound freedom builds confidence and resilience that transfers to other areas of life. For midlife and older adults especially, compassionate decluttering offers an opportunity to reclaim spaces for themselves after years of prioritizing others' needs.
Ready to transform your relationship with your home? Visit homecoachhoff.com to access resources including vision and values worksheets, guided meditations, and two free chapters of Michelle's book. Whether you're seeking to age in place gracefully or simply create a space that truly nurtures you, this compassionate approach might be exactly what you've been searching for.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I love your wooden glasses in the back there.
Thanks, so, hello everyone.
Thank you so much for coming toour podcast.
This is going to be broadcastactually on
SeniorSafetyAdvicecom and onAgingInPlaceDirectorycom on
those two podcasts as well asthose two YouTube channels.
(00:52):
So if you're watching us onYouTube, thank you, hello,
welcome channel.
So if you're watching us onYouTube, thank you, hello,
welcome.
And I am so happy today tobring on to this podcast
Michelle Hoff.
She is the author ofCompassionate Decluttering and
I'll tell you what attracted mewas to this book was just the
(01:13):
title of.
I mean, I love decluttering,that's my thing.
But compassionate declutteringwas such an interesting niche,
an interesting viewpoint of it,much different than just you
know, get out there and pull outa few things and give them away
and change this and have this.
You know save box and you knowall the other tips that you
(01:35):
normally hear.
You know save box and you knowall the other tips that you
normally hear.
And this went a little deeperand I think, michelle, I think
what you told me is it was a 10year process to write the book.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, I shudder to say a 12 year process to write
this book.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So a lot of love went into this book.
I got to tell you a lot of love.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yes, a lot of self-compassion to get through
it.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So this is Michelle Hoff, and I am going to let her
introduce herself to you.
Take it away, Michelle.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Oh, thanks so much, esther.
It's nice to be here, reallywonderful to be here, actually.
Yes, so, michelle, home coachHoff and the home coach piece is
helping.
First and foremost, I'm a lifecoach, but I have a niche as a
home coach.
Okay, and from what I know, I'mthe only home coach.
(02:28):
I looked at the InternationalCoaches Federation website no
such thing, and that's themothership of coaches.
So, um, but I love.
I've been working in people'shomes physically for over 30
years.
Um, I owned a commercial andresidential cleaning business.
(02:48):
Started that when I was incollege and he did that for 10
years.
I worked in the homefurnishings industry for 10
years at Room and Board.
Its headquarters is here inMinneapolis and I did various
roles there.
And I also started a businesscalled Design Within.
After that, after I was trainedas a life coach, I went on a
(03:13):
walk in the Pyrenees Mountainswith a bunch of life coaches
from around the world, with themission each day to kind of chew
on a question that was going tolead us to the, the one thing
that we were going to change andcontribute to the world.
And I came up with my businessname, design Within, integrating
my coaching certificationcourse and all my design skills
(03:35):
in interior design, landscapedesign and interior painting,
and my degree is in horticultureand landscape management.
So all of my love and passionsare around home.
And but I wanted to um.
I got my master's degree inhuman development and I um the
thesis of my master's.
(03:57):
What became the genesis of mybook, compassionate Decluttering
, and it was about recoveringyour authentic self and using
your home as a medium to do thatwell, I would say you are well
rounded in that beautiful homeniche right.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I love that and I think when I first saw you or
met you on LinkedIn, I think Iasked you what is a home coach,
like what I had.
I hadn't heard of that termeither myself, so I love that.
You own it Is there.
You should buy the domainhomecoachcom if it's available.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well, my website is homecoachhoffcom.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Oh Home.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Coach Hoff.
Okay, I've also spent 40 yearsin different sports activities
and I love the concept of beinga part of a team, and I do that
still today.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
So I think that's so important, especially with aging
in place professionals.
I mean, there's no way that anyone specialty can walk into
someone's home and be able to doeverything exactly you know.
But if you can have, if you canconsider yourself as part of a
team of all these other people,you know, someone can be the
contractor or the handyman orthe designer or whatever, and
(05:14):
then you can at least be theprovider of that, you can be the
source that that family alwayscalls for whatever they need,
exactly.
Yeah, that's what makes youinvaluable.
I think that's really thebiggest factor that a lot of
aging in place professionalsmiss out on.
Is that?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
team approach, that team approach A hundred percent
and decluttering in and ofitself.
I mean, if it was easy it'd bedone right.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I mean and it's the first step to aging.
It's the very first step.
You can't do um, there's almostnothing you can do, well,
unless it's out.
Well, no, there's almostnothing you can do unless it's
decluttering, even outdoors,that you have to declutter.
That's the very first step, andit's so emotional that you
(06:01):
really have to come at it from adifferent angle.
That's what I loved about thetitle of your book compassionate
decluttering because it reallydoes require a lot of empathy, a
lot of understanding, there'spsychology, there's everything
is involved in this issue ofclutter, especially here in the
US.
You know, we don't practiceSwedish death cleaning too often
(06:24):
.
You know we don't do that atall.
We, you know, fill our houseswith stuff and stuff and stuff
and it's just part of ourculture.
I guess it is.
I don't know how many decadesit's built.
Part of our culture?
I guess it is, I don't know howmany decades.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
It's built into the fabric of being, you know, a
capitalist country.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's true , it's true.
So I love that.
That inspired you.
You know the inspirations thatyou got from moving from one
business to another and how yougot here.
Can you share a personal storythat maybe shaped your
philosophy over aroundcompassionate decluttering?
(07:05):
I mean, is it something thathappened to you personally, or a
client, or how did you come upwith that whole idea?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, that's a great question and part of it is what
I was mentioning about thelegacy of where I've been in
different jobs and experiencesI've had with that 30 years and
coupled with the 12 years ittook me to write my book, even
(07:38):
in this year, that the word thathas motivated me, both
personally and professionally,and what I'm seeing in my client
, is this word of discontent.
There is this layer ofdiscontentment that people live
with around and in their homeand it's that quelling that
discontent in my mind and I dothat for myself personally, I am
(08:01):
on a constant quest to figureout how, who I am and what it is
I need and want in my life andchoices I make.
So, um, and because the home isa space where we spend, you know
, hopefully more than 80 yearsor in our lifetime and 30
(08:22):
percent of our income, rightthere's like I want, I'm really
like, I want to get the valueout of that and I want to help
my clients get the value out ofthat.
And then you know this, as wetalked about the magical world
of marketing and shoving allthese things down our throats
all the time, right, there's somany, so much consumerism going
(08:47):
on that I just people tend tothen, in all the social media as
well, we're looking outside ofourself for answers to comfort
and and this magical um feelingof home that is depicted in
(09:08):
magazines and, you know, hgtvshows and whatnot and how we
should look, our home shouldlook, and my philosophy is stop,
stop the noise and look insideof yourself yeah, I agree with
you a hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
I think the notion of looking outside of yourself for
that sense of happiness orfulfillment or whatever you want
to call it, is it's futile,because it's never outside of
yourself, it's inside ofyourself.
But of course, that takes a lotmore work, you know.
It takes um, you know and andand.
(09:46):
Just like you said, you justcame to it this year, or you
came to a, an idea this year,and I think that's the con, the
the idea is that it's nevercompleted.
You're constantly, hopefully,you're constantly learning and
growing and changing, and it's,I mean, the only thing that's
constant in our life is change,that's for sure.
(10:07):
So how do we react to it?
How do we learn from each thingthat happens to us?
How do we, you know, build thatup in ourselves and how do we
not stay?
You know, whatever you learnedwhen you were 25, it's going to
be completely different whenyou're 35, 45, 55, hopefully yes
, I hope so too, because we'renot the same person.
(10:31):
Thank, god, thank god for that.
Yeah, I don't want to go back tothat I wouldn't mind being that
age, but only if I know what Iknow.
Now, you know which.
I think everyone, everyone saysthat.
But I think you're absolutelyright.
And the home is really theheart of everything and you want
it to be your peaceful, restful, you know, haven.
(10:54):
You want it to be your haven,where you go home and you relax.
And you, you know I'm workingon making my home my resort.
It's my resort, it's my place.
You know, I don't care.
I don't really.
I've traveled so much in mylife.
I don't want to travel.
I don't care to see anothertree, another church, another,
this, another, that I don't care.
(11:14):
You know I, when my friends goaway, I tell them just send me a
rock, send me a rock fromwherever, and that's good,
that's good enough.
It's that because it just thesethings don't matter.
But what matters to me is myhome and I want it to be my safe
place where I spend all my timeand get to do what I want.
Um, and I think everyone wantsthat, but not everyone knows how
(11:38):
to do that Exactly.
And you know, two years fromnow, I'm going to find something
different that I did, now thatyou know I may want to change or
anything.
So that's where I think thatconcept of home coach comes in,
which I think is so great.
I mean mean you did?
You say you had a course.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I went, I got certified um a life coaching
certification through theinternational coaches federation
in 2003 actually, so quite awhile ago, yeah, um, and so I've
been at it for coaching for awhile and just just narrowing
and refining my client base andyou know my messaging over time
(12:20):
Because it's you know you talkabout clutter and then you talk
about, you know, working on theinside stuff and people get a
little freaked out like I'mgoing to.
You know I'm not a therapistand that is the most important
distinction that coaching is notabout, you know, working
through the past, althoughthings come up and I'm not
(12:40):
afraid of that and if theclient's willing to look at that
.
but we're always looking forwardinto what's new, what's next,
what's the goal, what's thewhere are you reaching for
fulfillment and what does thatlook like?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Right, exactly, I love that, I love that concept.
I'm sure you came to that.
You know, as years went by andyou, you had lessons in your
life and I think that's thatjust goes to show that you've
been through.
You know, you've been throughit to get to this place good,
bad, whatever.
You know I, you know, when myfriends talk about bad events, I
(13:19):
go, yeah, but this bad event isgoing to teach you something
and it's going to make you thisamazing person.
You just have to be patient toget through it.
And so I think you've done agreat job and I just I love that
title home coach, just love it.
Um, especially, especially, youknow, in this, in this niche of
(13:39):
aging in place, you really arecoming in to home coach them so
that they can stay there asindependently as possible, for
as long as possible.
That's the whole idea, even ifit's not in that particular home
, even if it's in an assistedliving or wherever independent
living, wherever they end upgoing or wherever they end up
(14:02):
staying Right, they want to makethat environment as safe and as
far as long, so that they canbe as independent for as long as
possible and for me being sortof interrupt, but for me also
that word independent is like Iam fiercely independent and I
don't want anyone telling mewhat to do.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I want that agency in my life for as long as I am
breathing.
So I want, I can't imagine.
Well, those are the clientsthat that I work with, and you
know I'm not pulling or pushinganybody towards my ideas.
Right, that's againsteverything that home coach off
stands for.
(14:42):
We're, we're harvesting what's,what's your vision in the
process, and that lifestyle umlooking at the positive sides of
change in the process right,exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Oh, I love it, I love .
Yeah, I wish you were here inGeorgia.
I'd have you come home coach me.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Well, luckily I'm virtual, so let's, let's sign up
.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Let's sign up.
I need to turn on my camera andhave you analyze my my
environment.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Oh yeah, no, no.
I want you to also know that Iowned a cleaning business, a
painting business and all thatkind of landscape business.
I may see things that I notice,but I it's not mine to judge,
and I.
Oh yeah, everyone's unique inthe way they live their homes
and there's no prescription tohow you live in your home.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Oh, of course it's not, and it's not about judgment
to how you live in your home.
Oh, of course, and it's notabout judgment, you know.
It's just about being.
I mean, to me, an assessment isusing someone's expertise in
what they know and how they seethings, Because, I mean, we all
live in our own little bubblesevery single one of us.
We have our own biases andeverything.
So I think it's so important toinvite as many people in, you
(15:56):
know, to whatever, to your idea,to your book, that you wrote to
your house to whatever, and askyou know, hey, what would you
do?
Can you see anything better?
You know, every time I have aguest over, the comment is what
else could I put in that room,or what can I take out, or what
would you like?
You know, what wouldn't youlike?
I mean because you never, youdon't always, see what other
(16:17):
people see.
So it's not about judgment,it's just about getting a
professional assessment foreverything.
I think that's, I think youhave to be open to that,
otherwise, you know, we juststay in our own little idea, our
little bubble.
So how do you help your clientsovercome what we all know,
(16:38):
these emotional barriers ofletting go?
You know what?
What do you think are the topthree or five or whatever tools
or tips to help, maybe, a familymember when working with their
own elderly parent?
Yeah such a good question.
It's such a good question.
Is it going to take an hour?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
You know, it's actually pretty simple, and I
ask my clients to just stoplooking at their stuff.
Okay, stop looking at it and,again, look inside to the vision
that you might have.
Look inside to the vision thatyou might have if you were to
(17:22):
just meditate for a minute on avision that you wanted for your
lifestyle, wherever that is,what would you be doing what?
Who would you be having over?
How much social?
What do you want the space tofeel like?
What's your vision?
What do you value?
Do you want family to be a partof that vision?
Do you want a client who hasgot an open door policy?
(17:47):
That was her vision.
She wanted to have an open doorpolicy when she got rid of her
stuff, which she has alreadydone.
And other clients just wantedto have people actually use
their guest room rather thanhave it be a storage area.
And you know so that when youcan stop looking at what is and
(18:09):
look forward to what could be inthat space that and that
lifestyle because they'recombined that is a great place
to start, first and foremost,and the other softy parts
because I'm just doing a lot ofinternal work here is loving
self-compassion and that whichcomes with like forgiveness for
(18:32):
maybe having it be a space whereyou made some mistakes you know
, you.
You don't have the order or thesystems that you wanted or need.
Maybe you've tried and failedor whatever.
Maybe you bought things thatyou know you never used or you
know so expensive you don't knowhow to get rid of it.
(18:53):
You know, just go through aprocess of accepting the fact
that you did make some mistakesand you did the best you could
at the time with the informationand the situation you had, and
bless your soul to just let thatgo and do some forgiveness.
(19:19):
The, you know, overcomingemotional barriers is a place
where you do need some support.
I think being having someonewho's a cheerleader for you,
that can hold that vision thatyou see for that space and that
lifestyle, and sharing it withpeople who you know can support
(19:42):
you in that vision, is critical,because that's where the
movement and improvement happens, is when we work together so
you're talking about family andfriends, neighbors, whatever
people, because the first stageof um kind of um, releasing that
(20:03):
vision and that lifestyle tothe world is first sharing it
with yourself and getting someclarity for that, for for that
vision and lifestyle.
And then that next step ofsharing it with someone who
really cares about you and wantsthe same thing for you.
Um, yeah, the the, and what Ido too is that I let my clients
(20:26):
know that you cannot do thisprocess alone.
You have to have a team ofpeople, because it is so very
complicated.
Right, creating that nextlifestyle which involves
decluttering is an organizer, adeclutterer, someone who knows
how to sell stuff because youknow, have some valuable things
(20:49):
you might want to get some moneyfor.
There's donation sites you knowhow do you navigate those and
the prioritizing.
And then, well, planning orlisting all the projects,
prioritizing all those projects,breaking all those projects
down, because decluttering isnot a to-do on a to-do list,
(21:13):
it's all the little, littlelittle projects in that realm of
decluttering, right, so it's.
You cannot do it alone andpeople really put a lot of
pressure on themselves to thinkthey have to do this alone and
they really don't and theyshouldn't.
No, they don't and theyshouldn't.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
No, they shouldn't, they truly shouldn't.
When my husband passed awayyears ago, we were living in a
large home and he never threwanything away and I had to begin
that process of declutteringand, yeah, I mean I rallied my
friends and family to help.
I mean we had 11 clothing,clothing closets in that house
and he had 10 of them, those 10were his.
(21:54):
One was mine, so there were somany things and that was just
the closet, nevermind all thedrawers and so, but I just, you
know, I mean you know, orderpizza and get everybody to come
over and start, because, one,it's emotional yes, no matter
(22:15):
what and two, it's a lot of work, it's a lot.
It took me a year to clean outthat that house, but that was
the initial.
That's how I got it started waswith the help of my friends and
family, because, you're right,was with the help of my friends
and family, because you're right, you can't do it alone.
What do you find?
Or have you found any onecommon um block that most of
(22:39):
your clients have that you findyou have to like get through
each time?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
oh, that's such a good question.
Excuse me, bless you.
The blocks can be.
Oh, the blocks, the blocks, theblocks.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I mean, do they find it hard to sit there and
meditate for a minute or thinkabout, or do they not even know
what their goal is?
They just know something iswrong, but they don't know what.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
So when they first come to me, they do have a
desire to be done with thisclutter.
They've worked with otherorganizers.
They've, um, you know, followed.
They've read the books, thedecluttering books.
They've had some systems inplace from those organizers and
declutterers.
Um, they've you maybe?
They read the magazines andwatch the TV shows and
(23:33):
everything looks so beautifuland simple and you know, 30
minutes it's over.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
But magic of TV.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Totally.
But there is so much.
So they, they want that.
Look, they want to be releasedfrom this cycle of clutter and
the roadblocks that they haveare a lot of subtle emotional
things.
You know the obligations, youknow the gifts that you received
(24:02):
, the you know from the trips.
You've places you've been thefamily heirlooms you've been
passed down, places you've beenthe family heirlooms you've been
passed down, and it's just, itcreates this weight and this
crippling paralysis around.
How am I supposed to reconcilethat, those emotions and those
(24:24):
memories and those obligations,with the history and the
sentimentality?
But so there's that, there'sthe you know, obviously, the
guilt, um, from letting go ofgifts or, if you do, and the
cost of what you bought and youknow didn't use.
(24:44):
And there's also you know,we've been in patterns and
habits in our lives for yearsunconscious habits and patterns,
and decluttering rattles thecage on those things and
actually asks you to dosomething different Because
(25:05):
obviously, if you're doing thesame thing, it's not working.
That's the old insanity plea,you know.
So, um, gotta do somethingdifferent, um, and there's a lot
of fear involved yeah, you'rethe unknown because you are
doing something different yeah,and and then making a mistake
(25:25):
like what if I throw that youknow armoire or not throw or
give this armoire to someoneelse who I don't know, and will
it haunt me for the rest of mylife?
You know, but most of the time,these feelings that you have
around, these regrets or themistakes afterwards, they
(25:48):
probably last two minutes or youknow, you know, and they and
you, you still breathe, yourheart's still beating and you're
still enjoying the morningcoffee the next day.
It's just, you know there's aplace for that, and so I have
people take the photographs anddo the videos, share a video
with other family members or askother family members to share
(26:09):
videos, stories about items thatthey're going to release.
You know, and sometimes I seeif there's another way to use
that piece in the space, youknow, challenge them to think
about.
Can you use that door as a um,uh, uh, a tray?
You know, a tray for somethingyou use in the future?
(26:31):
You actually use it, yeah, orit's stuff you get out of the
boxes, right, yeah?
Get out of the boxes, put it upon the wall or put it in a you
know place where people can seeit, and a conversation can begin
around that dead thing in thebox right Bring it to life,
right.
So it's just, it's practicingwith letting things go, feeling
(26:57):
the feelings, knowing thatyou're still going to be okay,
and usually there's like 1.1% ofstuff that people have regrets
about.
And we have regrets aboutthings, other things in life,
and we still live with those andwe make better decisions next
time or it influences us inanother way.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Right, exactly, it's amazing really how, um, how much
hold some things have.
It's just a thing, you know.
It's not a person, it's not ananimal, it's not.
It's a thing like, like thearmoire, it's just a thing.
(27:39):
But do you recommend I've readseveral places where some
organizers recommend, okay, whenyou're decluttering, you know,
if you really, if you have, youknow, well, first of all, I
think, if you have, like youknow, a thousand hummel pieces
or yard row pieces or whateveryou know, bring it down to 10 or
10 important ones, takepictures of the others or take a
(28:00):
picture of that armoire orwhatever.
Do you recommend that?
Do you find that that works forsome of your clients, taking a
picture of something beforegiving it away?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
oh yeah, I think it really is soothing for the soul.
It really allows them to, youknow.
I say, put it on your you knowcomputer screen, put the picture
there for as long as you needthat picture and just allow
yourself to fully kind of putclosure or appreciation around
that piece.
Don't deny the feelings thatyou're having because, like I
(28:35):
say, they, they're valuableprocessors and muscle builders
around you know some resistanceand decision-making.
The longer you can linger insome of that discomfort
decision-making, the longer youcan linger in some of that
(28:55):
discomfort, the more resilienceyou have.
As Emma Seppala she wrote theHappiness Track and she talked
about compassion is aboutbuilding resilience and grit in
your system because, or thequalities of compassion are
wisdom, kindness, patience andunderstanding.
(29:19):
Yeah, and, and those are thepieces that we're going through
when we look at and let go ofthat armoire you know like, and
we're getting stronger and yes,yeah, it builds confidence.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
It is amazing, you know, that is one thing.
It does make you stronger.
I mean, when I went throughthat major process, it does make
you stronger, and for whateverreason, well, I mean it does
make sense.
It made me freer.
I mean I really felt like Icould do so much more.
You know I could do.
(29:52):
Well, first of all, you gothrough something like that, you
know you, you do build up thatresilience because you're
challenging yourself each timeyou get rid of something or you
move something away or whatever.
And as the space, as the itemsget less and less, the items
that are left have moreimportance.
(30:14):
You know, so you have.
I don't know.
There's just this, I don't evenknow what to call it, but it
does change the entire way youfeel at home.
Freer is the only thing I canthink of.
I don't even know if that's theright word.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
It's a huge word in the decluttering process that
every single person feels thatfreedom from the release,
absolutely, and the weight ofthe burden that is lifted.
Yeah, that's part of it,because it's physical.
(30:50):
All of our stuff has energy,right and and and it takes up
and as that energy gets refinedand you're bringing out and
seeing for the first time maybethe real loved items that you
have that is also feeding you,yeah, instead of you know.
(31:13):
So it's a double win in theprocess of decluttering is
releasing heavy and burdenedenergy and then shining a light
on those beautiful things thatgive you that you love and give
you energy yeah, that give youjoy.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah, I mean because the other items, when you have
so much clutter, it's reallydepleting you of that because
it's just so busy and it's justso overwhelming.
But you're right, there's a lotof I mean, tied in with all of
that is all that guilt and so,and so gave me this.
I can't get rid of it, eventhough you know that person may
(31:48):
may have been, may have movedacross the world, or they're
never going to see them again,or they passed them.
I can't get rid of it.
That's what made me think abouttaking pictures of it, if that
was a viable kind of thing.
What do you do?
You think that there's anydifference in working with a
client who's 30 years old versuswith a client who's 80 years
(32:09):
old, versus with a client who's80 years old, as far as your
process with them?
I mean, the only thing I'mthinking of is maybe with an 80
year old, you're not dealingjust with the client, but with
the family too.
I mean, is there?
what do you see as the change?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Well, that's a really great question and my niche is
actually more on older, midlifeand older adults, primarily
women.
I don't have a good sense ofthat younger, 30 to 50
generation it's being 63 myselflike I don't know.
(32:47):
Am I?
They're four, they'll figure itout, and there is so much going
on in those you knowgenerations.
That is unique and I'm not anexpert in that, but what I find
is um for the 50 to 70 year olds.
They're um I can speak to theirand, again, I primarily work
(33:10):
with women.
And because these and the womenthat I work with they're
primarily professional, in someway it could be professional
volunteers, could beprofessional work.
You know they work in the workworld, they're educated, they're
really family and communityoriented um, really devoted and
(33:33):
super hard, working right andand they're ready for time for
the for themselves.
The kids are starting to.
Most of them have moved awayand got lives of their own and
she's looking around and saying,finally, I want to do something
for me.
It's still hard for them to dothat because the habits and
(33:56):
patterns and what people expectit makes and they're pleasing.
They like to please people.
A lot of us women do.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I'm guilty of that.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
yes, You're right, but so, but they're, they're
really passionately determinedto shake things up here at home
and they're ready to hire somehelp and and it's understanding
that you know they're they're onthe, you know, the later side
(34:32):
of their life you know, andthey're thinking about their
legacy and there's a lot ofstories around people leaving
four dumpsters worth of stufffor their kids to deal with,
(34:53):
deal with.
And I I worked for a senior movemanager company, um, carrying
transitions here in Minneapolis.
Um, and there was.
I helped them.
There were those five dumpsterclean routes that we had to work
on.
Um, it's a real thing andpeople are they want to do, they
want to dig in a little deepertoo.
They're not afraid.
They know.
They know because they've doneall the, they've had help with
(35:16):
organizing, they've had helpwith the books, and they're
coming to realize that I mightbe at the source of this problem
you know, and you know, they'vechecked off all the other
things that haven't worked, andso they're looking in the mirror
a little more honestly at thisstage of life and saying I'm
willing to do the work.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
So do you ever have family members coming to you to
help their aging parent versusthe aging parent asking?
Speaker 2 (35:44):
for help.
Yeah, I think that's a reallytricky place to be.
I think I think that's a reallytricky place to be.
Again, the work I do, we wantpeople who want to be here in
the, in the process, working ontheir own.
You know it's supporting theyoung.
(36:08):
You know the.
You know the the I'm sorry, thethe adult child, okay, yeah,
the adult.
Is that what they're calledRight In your world?
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, the adult kids.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, that's the yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Although the funny thing is, you know I think I've
mentioned another time we spokeis that because people are aging
so much longer now, you know,because of medicine and vaccines
and everything, people are justliving so much longer.
Um know, because of medicineand vaccines and everything,
people are just living so muchlonger, healthier, longer.
It's amazing that seniors youknow, the adult kids are seniors
too.
The seniors are taking care ofseniors, so it seems funny
(36:41):
talking about them as kids, butthey are the adult kids, yeah
they are Right.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
So most of the time I run across the adult kids who
are dealing with aging parents,and some that still have kids at
home.
You know, they're taking careof their kids too, and so I was
on this midlife.
What was it called?
(37:11):
Midlife?
Yeah, a mindset it's.
It's a, it's a podcast onmidlife women, and by um, oh, my
gosh, my, my whole brain, robinaustin.
She's a phd nurse educator.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Um, oh, midlife unmasked is the name of her
podcast on what um midlifeunmasked oh, unmasked, oh,
midlife, I thought you said onmeth, oh that's so terrible,
what, what?
Did you just say I'm writing itdown midlife unmasked.
(37:50):
All right, I love it, that'sbetter, that's a better title.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Okay, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely,
absolutely.
And you know she's in thatsituation where she's talking
about her parents and has kids.
There is so much weight on thesewomen's shoulders to honor the
parents in the process andcontinue to tend to the roles
(38:17):
and responsibilities they haveat home, the boundaries that
need to be established in theeffort to find collaborators in
this process, it's you've got tostop the boat sometime and just
try to put together a planwhere you get the help on both
(38:39):
sides of the equation, encouragefamily members, your kids, to
get involved, because you know,like me, I'm kind of a
controller, you know, in myhousehold and I wanted things
done a certain way in my house.
So I did everything and after awhile I started to get really
(39:00):
angry.
You know I resentful resentful,that's a better word and
finally I'm like I'm not gonnacook dinner so much as so
regularly as I have who else isgoing to do that?
And I don't want to mow thelawn anymore.
You know, like right, and wegot to figure out how to share
(39:22):
those things and it we've got toopen our mouth and ask for help
in on both ends of the spectrumin those situations.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
So yeah, it's true, boundaries are so very important
.
You know, I just wrote a fewarticles on that topic and I I
it almost made me think.
Well, it did make me think thatyou almost need a 12-step
program kind of thing for, um,for, and it is mostly women.
(39:50):
I mean, there are a few men whoare caregivers, but it's mostly
.
It mostly falls on the womenand you know they're working, so
they have their work life, theyhave their caregiving life,
they have their you know, theirwife life, their mother life.
I mean, it is overwhelming andit's impossible for anyone to
(40:10):
survive that without beingresentful or angry or completely
broken.
Yes resentful or angry or orcompletely broken.
Yes, gotten to the point whereI know so many of my friends
have done done just that, andwhen their parent did finally
pass away, they ended up with aserious illness because they
weren't attending to themselves.
(40:31):
They couldn't, and all thestress and everything that comes
along with it.
It's just.
When you look at it from theoutside it seems ridiculous.
You know why are you doing that, but when you're on the inside
it's so emotionally built andwho knows what the relationship
was between the parents and thekids.
That's why I think it is sodifferent, you know, with
(40:54):
younger adults versus olderadults on, and the whole process
.
Um and I guess I mean it's truewith anything every client that
you go to is very.
Do you have a um, some kind ofa pre-questionnaire or something
that can, like show you whatthe client is before you meet
(41:15):
the client?
Did I say that correctly?
Speaker 2 (41:17):
I got.
I got your message, yes okay soI do a 30-minute discovery call
beforehand and kind ofunderstand where they're coming
from, what their goals are, whatthey want um from what do they
need?
What do they want from a coach?
Speaker 1 (41:33):
do they?
Speaker 2 (41:33):
have ever been coached before um and get a
sense of their readiness andtalk about this work that
they've done already to getstarted and how that's been
going.
If they haven't startedanything, I ask them to you know
, take a month and let's work onone project that you want to
(41:55):
get done and just practice onthat and see how willing you are
to let things go.
If your goal is to, you know,clean off the um out the buffet,
you know um, and and we'll talkabout actual percentages Do you
want to get rid of 30% or doyou want to get rid of 50%?
And then we'll, you know, havethem call me back and we'll talk
(42:18):
again and see where they werein that you know that project
and their willingness factorbecause that's what we do
together is there's a major goalthat's explored through a two
hour get to know session.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Um, that we have.
And I asked you know eight totwo, 11 questions, um, about you
know successes they've had intheir life, what they're known
for.
You know roadblocks thatthey're aware of when it comes
to decluttering and how theyrespond?
And, um, you know just variousquestions, getting to know them
(42:59):
deeper.
Because this is a wonderfullywe create a container for this
work to be done in a safe andrespectful way where client is
leading this process, but I amlocked arm and arm with that
(43:19):
client and being theircheerleader, keeping them moving
, keeping them on track,watching the distractions.
Okay, you're going in thisdirection now, is that it's okay
?
If you changed your direction,yeah, let's revisit where you
want it to go and redefine whatyour new.
(43:39):
You know the, this nuance ofthis new.
If this goal is and but we I'mthe client is doing all of the
change and the growth.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
They have to.
I mean it's them.
You're coaching, you're notdoing right as a virtual coach
Right, right, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
And the beauty of the work we do I do with creating
teams in this process is tocollaborate with other
organizers and declutterers.
Again, I can do this all overthe world because I have a
network of organizers anddeclutter not world, united
States and the three of us theclient, myself and the coach and
(44:27):
the organizer declutter seniormove manager, whomever it may be
.
We're just in this.
We're all going in the samedirection with this client and
it's proven to be.
This is kind of a revolutionaryway to think about decluttering
in this team process and I'mI'm working to establish this
(44:48):
concept by meeting otherorganizers and from around the
world.
So around the world I don'tknow why I keep saying that
around the earth I know what youmean, and I mean you could go
worldwide, of course.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Um, I love that idea because, um, if you are, what it
sounds like to me is that youare the project manager of this
team.
You know you're the contractorthat's coming in and then you're
, you know, supervising, becausesomebody has to lay out the
team goals so that everyone isaware of where you're going,
(45:21):
what you're doing and how thingschange.
Things may change in the middleof creating that.
So is that how you work, howyou tailor each project for each
client, you know, depending onwhat they need?
Maybe an estate planner, I meannot an estate planner, what do
they call the estate company,estate auctions, or that come in
(45:43):
and yeah, yeah, yeah, estatesales, Estate sales, yes and
truly.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
I never want to lose sight of the fact that the
client is the one who's reallykeeping us on track and, as
support staff, if you will, um,support people we, we are just
ensuring that we're all doing,moving in the direction that
that client wants to go.
Um, so I may be, I'm, I mightbe someone at at the hub.
(46:15):
Just well, I'm not even at ahub.
I see us as a triangle.
We're all equally important inthe process and knowing that
maybe at the peak of thattriangle is the client's vision,
I like that picture better.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I like that picture in my head better.
So do you provide your clientswith a workbook or sheets or
something that keeps them, youknow, working towards their goal
?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Well, because actually you know shameless plug
, my book is a working journaland it's actually my process of
working through self-compassion,attachment and values,
clarification, visionclarification, decision making
tools.
So we're doing a lot of thatthroughout the process and we
(47:06):
really have to establish avision.
First and foremost, we have toknow where we're going.
Where does that client want togo?
That's our North Star.
Where does that client want togo?
That's our North Star.
And all around that, supportsupported by the values, and
(47:42):
making sure we're living ourvalues within that vision.
Because a lot of us can talkabout the values we have where
we're going by re, you know,just identifying those values in
the process too.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
So yeah, if I answered your question I find
most people don't even reallyknow their values.
You know, they haven't takenthe time to sit down.
They they may think they know,but then when you really
question them they just go uh.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Well, I have a very easy 12-minute video on
meditation on my website in myresources section and for both
vision and values, along withthe worksheet.
There's a worksheet thereanyone can go and I'm always
(48:24):
curious where it takes peopleand and how it shines a light on
maybe some new information.
It's kind of fun.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
I love that.
I mean that ties in so wellwith that whole type of
compassionate decluttering,because it's not just, you know,
like I said at the beginning,when I got this book and I was
looking through it, it's sodifferent from so many of the
other decluttering books thatI've gotten, and even even you
know, youtube videos andwebinars, whatever because I
(48:54):
really do believe thatdecluttering is the number one
step to the very first step toaging in place.
Yeah, you know is what my nicheis.
But, um, but what was made thisbook so different is that, like
you said, you're coming fromthe inside.
You're not only declutteringthe environment around you.
That the environment, I alwaysthink is a reflection of what's
(49:16):
inside.
So you have to declutter that,work on that, and then it just
kind of glows out.
You know it just comes out andit starts working.
It's like a light coming out ofyou and it starts, you know,
fixing the environment.
You know if I could create apicture, that's what I think of.
I like that.
I love that.
(49:36):
You're.
You know that this came out,that I love that you're.
You know that this came out.
I love that you did that book.
I think it's, I think it's abeautiful book, so anyone
listening or watching definitelyI'll have links to it I think
it's a perfect book to have foranyone who's who's even just
beginning to think about how doI go through this process,
(49:56):
because it really does take timeand you have to give yourself
time not only to get into thatmindset but then to actually
physically do it yes, and thatword mindset is so critical and
that's where the essence of thebook is.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
It's shifting the way you're thinking about your
stuff, you know, because theprocess of decluttering and for
if people, like adult children,know that their parents may be
in the next couple of years orthree, you know, have there
might be a change coming forthem and their lifestyle to
(50:32):
include the parents in thisconversation about you know
what's important and where, andand allowing them to, because it
takes did I already say this ittakes a couple years to just
make that transition and ratherbe ahead of it.
It's never too early to startright right, it's never too
(50:53):
early to start.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
I mean, you definitely want to start.
I.
I have a great friend who whopracticed from the.
I've known her 30 years and shetaught her children and she and
her husband practice it.
If one item comes into thehouse, one item goes out of the
house and her kids still do thatand I think that that you know.
But it it takes time and ittakes practice.
(51:14):
It takes a mindset, yes, but ifyou're not born with that, if
you don't have that immediately,it's going to take.
You have to be patient withyourself and realize it will
happen.
You know very much like a slowdiet.
You know post-menopause dietingis very, very, very slow.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
Exactly, and it's.
It's just what?
What right?
One small project at a time andone small project at a time?
Speaker 1 (51:42):
yeah, it's true oh, michelle, this was amazing.
Um what other resources do youhave on your website?
Can you um it's?
Speaker 2 (51:50):
mostly resources associated with my book, and
every chapter might have threeor four uh work.
It's um activities andassociated worksheets and things
like that, so people can dig inand and see what comes up for
them.
Um, I'm, I'm available to callit, talk to me anytime.
(52:13):
Uh, you can find myself onlinkedin and on instagram.
Um, I've got I do two minutevideos, you know, once a month
and I've got a I I meet withpeople who want to are
interested in life coaching.
I mean home coaching andworking with organizers.
(52:33):
I have a monthly meeting withum organizers.
My, you know you can see it onmy LinkedIn or Instagram.
Uh, what's coming up in thenext month?
Speaker 1 (52:45):
So I love that.
So tell me your website again.
And um is that the best way forpeople to get a hold of you is
through the website?
Speaker 2 (52:56):
Excuse me, me um homecoachhoffcom.
Okay, easy, breezy, and samehomecoachhoffcom at linkedin and
instagram.
Um, I think, my, I thinklinkedin is the best way to get
a hold of me, okay, and if youtell me what your clients would
(53:16):
you know when you think of TV?
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Yeah, I mean, I think , if you have a phone number on
your website, if you have acontact page on your website,
then I mean those two inaddition to LinkedIn.
Those are three excellent ways,and it's homecoach H-O-F-F, as
in Frank com, in case peoplearen't hearing it well, oh, and
(53:38):
I've got a newsletter that ifyou go, if you go on my website,
yeah, Two free chapters of mybook.
Oh great.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Yeah, and I, you know I don't pressure people.
I have stories and that doesstill down to you know one or
two lines about decluttering,that distill down to.
You know one or two lines aboutdecluttering, but it's really
how life is all about.
You know the choices we makeright and how we manage those
(54:09):
choices.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah, and manage the events that happen to us?
Yeah, because things happen.
So, it's not what happenshappens, it's how you react to
what happens at the end of theday.
But it's a beautifully writtenbook.
I mean, thank you.
You know I I love the way it itfollows.
I, I think it's, I think it'sexcellent, I think you did a
great job.
(54:31):
So again, it was worth the 12years yeah, I know I can't
believe it's been 12, but it'sum.
It was worth the 12 years.
Yeah, I know I can't believeit's been 12.
But it's beautiful.
You can tell there's a lot oflove in it and it flows well.
You know, I don't know how youdecided what went first, second,
third, whatever, but it'sbeautifully written.
I think you did a great job,easy to follow, so I thank you
(54:53):
so much, thank you.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Thank you, thank you, oh wow, thank you so much,
thank you, thank you, thank you.
So such a pleasure, mr.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
Yeah, I look forward to talking to you more, not only
about this, but you know allthe other amazing because you
are so well rounded.
It's your.
You know there's some peoplethat you meet that you can only
talk to about two, three things,and then that's it their.
Their extent of knowledge is ina box.
(55:19):
And then other people theirknowledge base is, you know, the
size of the planet.
So I love that because it makesconversation flow so much
easier, and I mean you learnfrom each and every person.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
You do Well, thank you, and I admire what you're
doing so much as well.
I look forward to furthercollaborations with you and
every person.
You do Well, thank you, and Iadmire what you're doing so much
as well.
I look forward to furthercollaborations with you and
other people.
I know you've got a new personyou're going to interview soon
that I'm very curious about andI want to follow that interview.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yeah, I'm always looking for you know people to
interview and you know.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Anything that's unique and different I love
because I think it makes itforces you to think out of your
box, and when I write thearticles and when I do the
webinars for the members of thedirectory, I always try to think
of you know, an out of the boxway to use this or that or
(56:16):
whatever.
Like you know, today I did awebinar on Amazon affiliate
program and how that can boostyour income, and a lot of people
don't think.
A lot of aging placeprofessionals don't consider,
even considered, using Amazon aspart of an income booster, but
it, it absolutely can be, wow,so, um, all right, so hold on
(56:36):
for a little bit, but I want tothank everybody and I will see
you in the next podcast.
Thank you.
I love your wooden glasses in the back there.
Thanks, so, hello everyone.
Thank you so much for coming toour podcast.
This is going to be broadcastactually on
SeniorSafetyAdvicecom and onAgingInPlaceDirectorycom on
those two podcasts as well asthose two YouTube channels.
(00:52):
So if you're watching us onYouTube, thank you, hello,
welcome channel.
So if you're watching us onYouTube, thank you, hello,
welcome.
And I am so happy today tobring on to this podcast
Michelle Hoff.
She is the author ofCompassionate Decluttering and
I'll tell you what attracted mewas to this book was just the
(01:13):
title of.
I mean, I love decluttering,that's my thing.
But compassionate declutteringwas such an interesting niche,
an interesting viewpoint of it,much different than just you
know, get out there and pull outa few things and give them away
and change this and have this.
You know save box and you knowall the other tips that you
(01:35):
normally hear.
You know save box and you knowall the other tips that you
normally hear.
And this went a little deeperand I think, michelle, I think
what you told me is it was a 10year process to write the book.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, I shudder to say a 12 year process to write
this book.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So a lot of love went into this book.
I got to tell you a lot of love.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yes, a lot of self-compassion to get through
it.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So this is Michelle Hoff, and I am going to let her
introduce herself to you.
Take it away, Michelle.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Oh, thanks so much, esther.
It's nice to be here, reallywonderful to be here, actually.
Yes, so, michelle, home coachHoff and the home coach piece is
helping.
First and foremost, I'm a lifecoach, but I have a niche as a
home coach.
Okay, and from what I know, I'mthe only home coach.
(02:28):
I looked at the InternationalCoaches Federation website no
such thing, and that's themothership of coaches.
So, um, but I love.
I've been working in people'shomes physically for over 30
years.
Um, I owned a commercial andresidential cleaning business.
(02:48):
Started that when I was incollege and he did that for 10
years.
I worked in the homefurnishings industry for 10
years at Room and Board.
Its headquarters is here inMinneapolis and I did various
roles there.
And I also started a businesscalled Design Within.
After that, after I was trainedas a life coach, I went on a
(03:13):
walk in the Pyrenees Mountainswith a bunch of life coaches
from around the world, with themission each day to kind of chew
on a question that was going tolead us to the, the one thing
that we were going to change andcontribute to the world.
And I came up with my businessname, design Within, integrating
my coaching certificationcourse and all my design skills
(03:35):
in interior design, landscapedesign and interior painting,
and my degree is in horticultureand landscape management.
So all of my love and passionsare around home.
And but I wanted to um.
I got my master's degree inhuman development and I um the
thesis of my master's.
(03:57):
What became the genesis of mybook, compassionate Decluttering
, and it was about recoveringyour authentic self and using
your home as a medium to do thatwell, I would say you are well
rounded in that beautiful homeniche right.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I love that and I think when I first saw you or
met you on LinkedIn, I think Iasked you what is a home coach,
like what I had.
I hadn't heard of that termeither myself, so I love that.
You own it Is there.
You should buy the domainhomecoachcom if it's available.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well, my website is homecoachhoffcom.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Oh Home.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Coach Hoff.
Okay, I've also spent 40 yearsin different sports activities
and I love the concept of beinga part of a team, and I do that
still today.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
So I think that's so important, especially with aging
in place professionals.
I mean, there's no way that anyone specialty can walk into
someone's home and be able to doeverything exactly you know.
But if you can have, if you canconsider yourself as part of a
team of all these other people,you know, someone can be the
contractor or the handyman orthe designer or whatever, and
(05:14):
then you can at least be theprovider of that, you can be the
source that that family alwayscalls for whatever they need,
exactly.
Yeah, that's what makes youinvaluable.
I think that's really thebiggest factor that a lot of
aging in place professionalsmiss out on.
Is that?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
team approach, that team approach A hundred percent
and decluttering in and ofitself.
I mean, if it was easy it'd bedone right.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I mean and it's the first step to aging.
It's the very first step.
You can't do um, there's almostnothing you can do, well,
unless it's out.
Well, no, there's almostnothing you can do unless it's
decluttering, even outdoors,that you have to declutter.
That's the very first step, andit's so emotional that you
(06:01):
really have to come at it from adifferent angle.
That's what I loved about thetitle of your book compassionate
decluttering because it reallydoes require a lot of empathy, a
lot of understanding, there'spsychology, there's everything
is involved in this issue ofclutter, especially here in the
US.
You know, we don't practiceSwedish death cleaning too often
(06:24):
.
You know we don't do that atall.
We, you know, fill our houseswith stuff and stuff and stuff
and it's just part of ourculture.
I guess it is.
I don't know how many decadesit's built.
Part of our culture?
I guess it is, I don't know howmany decades.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
It's built into the fabric of being, you know, a
capitalist country.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's true , it's true.
So I love that.
That inspired you.
You know the inspirations thatyou got from moving from one
business to another and how yougot here.
Can you share a personal storythat maybe shaped your
philosophy over aroundcompassionate decluttering?
(07:05):
I mean, is it something thathappened to you personally, or a
client, or how did you come upwith that whole idea?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, that's a great question and part of it is what
I was mentioning about thelegacy of where I've been in
different jobs and experiencesI've had with that 30 years and
coupled with the 12 years ittook me to write my book, even
(07:38):
in this year, that the word thathas motivated me, both
personally and professionally,and what I'm seeing in my client
, is this word of discontent.
There is this layer ofdiscontentment that people live
with around and in their homeand it's that quelling that
discontent in my mind and I dothat for myself personally, I am
(08:01):
on a constant quest to figureout how, who I am and what it is
I need and want in my life andchoices I make.
So, um, and because the home isa space where we spend, you know
, hopefully more than 80 yearsor in our lifetime and 30
(08:22):
percent of our income, rightthere's like I want, I'm really
like, I want to get the valueout of that and I want to help
my clients get the value out ofthat.
And then you know this, as wetalked about the magical world
of marketing and shoving allthese things down our throats
all the time, right, there's somany, so much consumerism going
(08:47):
on that I just people tend tothen, in all the social media as
well, we're looking outside ofourself for answers to comfort
and and this magical um feelingof home that is depicted in
(09:08):
magazines and, you know, hgtvshows and whatnot and how we
should look, our home shouldlook, and my philosophy is stop,
stop the noise and look insideof yourself yeah, I agree with
you a hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
I think the notion of looking outside of yourself for
that sense of happiness orfulfillment or whatever you want
to call it, is it's futile,because it's never outside of
yourself, it's inside ofyourself.
But of course, that takes a lotmore work, you know.
It takes um, you know and andand.
(09:46):
Just like you said, you justcame to it this year, or you
came to a, an idea this year,and I think that's the con, the
the idea is that it's nevercompleted.
You're constantly, hopefully,you're constantly learning and
growing and changing, and it's,I mean, the only thing that's
constant in our life is change,that's for sure.
(10:07):
So how do we react to it?
How do we learn from each thingthat happens to us?
How do we, you know, build thatup in ourselves and how do we
not stay?
You know, whatever you learnedwhen you were 25, it's going to
be completely different whenyou're 35, 45, 55, hopefully yes
, I hope so too, because we'renot the same person.
(10:31):
Thank, god, thank god for that.
Yeah, I don't want to go back tothat I wouldn't mind being that
age, but only if I know what Iknow.
Now, you know which.
I think everyone, everyone saysthat.
But I think you're absolutelyright.
And the home is really theheart of everything and you want
it to be your peaceful, restful, you know, haven.
(10:54):
You want it to be your haven,where you go home and you relax.
And you, you know I'm workingon making my home my resort.
It's my resort, it's my place.
You know, I don't care.
I don't really.
I've traveled so much in mylife.
I don't want to travel.
I don't care to see anothertree, another church, another,
this, another, that I don't care.
(11:14):
You know I, when my friends goaway, I tell them just send me a
rock, send me a rock fromwherever, and that's good,
that's good enough.
It's that because it just thesethings don't matter.
But what matters to me is myhome and I want it to be my safe
place where I spend all my timeand get to do what I want.
Um, and I think everyone wantsthat, but not everyone knows how
(11:38):
to do that Exactly.
And you know, two years fromnow, I'm going to find something
different that I did, now thatyou know I may want to change or
anything.
So that's where I think thatconcept of home coach comes in,
which I think is so great.
I mean mean you did?
You say you had a course.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I went, I got certified um a life coaching
certification through theinternational coaches federation
in 2003 actually, so quite awhile ago, yeah, um, and so I've
been at it for coaching for awhile and just just narrowing
and refining my client base andyou know my messaging over time
(12:20):
Because it's you know you talkabout clutter and then you talk
about, you know, working on theinside stuff and people get a
little freaked out like I'mgoing to.
You know I'm not a therapistand that is the most important
distinction that coaching is notabout, you know, working
through the past, althoughthings come up and I'm not
(12:40):
afraid of that and if theclient's willing to look at that
.
but we're always looking forwardinto what's new, what's next,
what's the goal, what's thewhere are you reaching for
fulfillment and what does thatlook like?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Right, exactly, I love that, I love that concept.
I'm sure you came to that.
You know, as years went by andyou, you had lessons in your
life and I think that's thatjust goes to show that you've
been through.
You know, you've been throughit to get to this place good,
bad, whatever.
You know I, you know, when myfriends talk about bad events, I
(13:19):
go, yeah, but this bad event isgoing to teach you something
and it's going to make you thisamazing person.
You just have to be patient toget through it.
And so I think you've done agreat job and I just I love that
title home coach, just love it.
Um, especially, especially, youknow, in this, in this niche of
(13:39):
aging in place, you really arecoming in to home coach them so
that they can stay there asindependently as possible, for
as long as possible.
That's the whole idea, even ifit's not in that particular home
, even if it's in an assistedliving or wherever independent
living, wherever they end upgoing or wherever they end up
(14:02):
staying Right, they want to makethat environment as safe and as
far as long, so that they canbe as independent for as long as
possible and for me being sortof interrupt, but for me also
that word independent is like Iam fiercely independent and I
don't want anyone telling mewhat to do.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I want that agency in my life for as long as I am
breathing.
So I want, I can't imagine.
Well, those are the clientsthat that I work with, and you
know I'm not pulling or pushinganybody towards my ideas.
Right, that's againsteverything that home coach off
stands for.
(14:42):
We're, we're harvesting what's,what's your vision in the
process, and that lifestyle umlooking at the positive sides of
change in the process right,exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Oh, I love it, I love .
Yeah, I wish you were here inGeorgia.
I'd have you come home coach me.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Well, luckily I'm virtual, so let's, let's sign up
.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Let's sign up.
I need to turn on my camera andhave you analyze my my
environment.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Oh yeah, no, no.
I want you to also know that Iowned a cleaning business, a
painting business and all thatkind of landscape business.
I may see things that I notice,but I it's not mine to judge,
and I.
Oh yeah, everyone's unique inthe way they live their homes
and there's no prescription tohow you live in your home.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Oh, of course it's not, and it's not about judgment
to how you live in your home.
Oh, of course, and it's notabout judgment, you know.
It's just about being.
I mean, to me, an assessment isusing someone's expertise in
what they know and how they seethings, Because, I mean, we all
live in our own little bubblesevery single one of us.
We have our own biases andeverything.
So I think it's so important toinvite as many people in, you
(15:56):
know, to whatever, to your idea,to your book, that you wrote to
your house to whatever, and askyou know, hey, what would you
do?
Can you see anything better?
You know, every time I have aguest over, the comment is what
else could I put in that room,or what can I take out, or what
would you like?
You know, what wouldn't youlike?
I mean because you never, youdon't always, see what other
(16:17):
people see.
So it's not about judgment,it's just about getting a
professional assessment foreverything.
I think that's, I think youhave to be open to that,
otherwise, you know, we juststay in our own little idea, our
little bubble.
So how do you help your clientsovercome what we all know,
(16:38):
these emotional barriers ofletting go?
You know what?
What do you think are the topthree or five or whatever tools
or tips to help, maybe, a familymember when working with their
own elderly parent?
Yeah such a good question.
It's such a good question.
Is it going to take an hour?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
You know, it's actually pretty simple, and I
ask my clients to just stoplooking at their stuff.
Okay, stop looking at it and,again, look inside to the vision
that you might have.
Look inside to the vision thatyou might have if you were to
(17:22):
just meditate for a minute on avision that you wanted for your
lifestyle, wherever that is,what would you be doing what?
Who would you be having over?
How much social?
What do you want the space tofeel like?
What's your vision?
What do you value?
Do you want family to be a partof that vision?
Do you want a client who hasgot an open door policy?
(17:47):
That was her vision.
She wanted to have an open doorpolicy when she got rid of her
stuff, which she has alreadydone.
And other clients just wantedto have people actually use
their guest room rather thanhave it be a storage area.
And you know so that when youcan stop looking at what is and
(18:09):
look forward to what could be inthat space that and that
lifestyle because they'recombined that is a great place
to start, first and foremost,and the other softy parts
because I'm just doing a lot ofinternal work here is loving
self-compassion and that whichcomes with like forgiveness for
(18:32):
maybe having it be a space whereyou made some mistakes you know
, you.
You don't have the order or thesystems that you wanted or need.
Maybe you've tried and failedor whatever.
Maybe you bought things thatyou know you never used or you
know so expensive you don't knowhow to get rid of it.
(18:53):
You know, just go through aprocess of accepting the fact
that you did make some mistakesand you did the best you could
at the time with the informationand the situation you had, and
bless your soul to just let thatgo and do some forgiveness.
(19:19):
The, you know, overcomingemotional barriers is a place
where you do need some support.
I think being having someonewho's a cheerleader for you,
that can hold that vision thatyou see for that space and that
lifestyle, and sharing it withpeople who you know can support
(19:42):
you in that vision, is critical,because that's where the
movement and improvement happens, is when we work together so
you're talking about family andfriends, neighbors, whatever
people, because the first stageof um kind of um, releasing that
(20:03):
vision and that lifestyle tothe world is first sharing it
with yourself and getting someclarity for that, for for that
vision and lifestyle.
And then that next step ofsharing it with someone who
really cares about you and wantsthe same thing for you.
Um, yeah, the the, and what Ido too is that I let my clients
(20:26):
know that you cannot do thisprocess alone.
You have to have a team ofpeople, because it is so very
complicated.
Right, creating that nextlifestyle which involves
decluttering is an organizer, adeclutterer, someone who knows
how to sell stuff because youknow, have some valuable things
(20:49):
you might want to get some moneyfor.
There's donation sites you knowhow do you navigate those and
the prioritizing.
And then, well, planning orlisting all the projects,
prioritizing all those projects,breaking all those projects
down, because decluttering isnot a to-do on a to-do list,
(21:13):
it's all the little, littlelittle projects in that realm of
decluttering, right, so it's.
You cannot do it alone andpeople really put a lot of
pressure on themselves to thinkthey have to do this alone and
they really don't and theyshouldn't.
No, they don't and theyshouldn't.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
No, they shouldn't, they truly shouldn't.
When my husband passed awayyears ago, we were living in a
large home and he never threwanything away and I had to begin
that process of declutteringand, yeah, I mean I rallied my
friends and family to help.
I mean we had 11 clothing,clothing closets in that house
and he had 10 of them, those 10were his.
(21:54):
One was mine, so there were somany things and that was just
the closet, nevermind all thedrawers and so, but I just, you
know, I mean you know, orderpizza and get everybody to come
over and start, because, one,it's emotional yes, no matter
(22:15):
what and two, it's a lot of work, it's a lot.
It took me a year to clean outthat that house, but that was
the initial.
That's how I got it started waswith the help of my friends and
family, because, you're right,was with the help of my friends
and family, because you're right, you can't do it alone.
What do you find?
Or have you found any onecommon um block that most of
(22:39):
your clients have that you findyou have to like get through
each time?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
oh, that's such a good question.
Excuse me, bless you.
The blocks can be.
Oh, the blocks, the blocks, theblocks.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I mean, do they find it hard to sit there and
meditate for a minute or thinkabout, or do they not even know
what their goal is?
They just know something iswrong, but they don't know what.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
So when they first come to me, they do have a
desire to be done with thisclutter.
They've worked with otherorganizers.
They've, um, you know, followed.
They've read the books, thedecluttering books.
They've had some systems inplace from those organizers and
declutterers.
Um, they've you maybe?
They read the magazines andwatch the TV shows and
(23:33):
everything looks so beautifuland simple and you know, 30
minutes it's over.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
But magic of TV.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Totally.
But there is so much.
So they, they want that.
Look, they want to be releasedfrom this cycle of clutter and
the roadblocks that they haveare a lot of subtle emotional
things.
You know the obligations, youknow the gifts that you received
(24:02):
, the you know from the trips.
You've places you've been thefamily heirlooms you've been
passed down, places you've beenthe family heirlooms you've been
passed down, and it's just, itcreates this weight and this
crippling paralysis around.
How am I supposed to reconcilethat, those emotions and those
(24:24):
memories and those obligations,with the history and the
sentimentality?
But so there's that, there'sthe you know, obviously, the
guilt, um, from letting go ofgifts or, if you do, and the
cost of what you bought and youknow didn't use.
(24:44):
And there's also you know,we've been in patterns and
habits in our lives for yearsunconscious habits and patterns,
and decluttering rattles thecage on those things and
actually asks you to dosomething different Because
(25:05):
obviously, if you're doing thesame thing, it's not working.
That's the old insanity plea,you know.
So, um, gotta do somethingdifferent, um, and there's a lot
of fear involved yeah, you'rethe unknown because you are
doing something different yeah,and and then making a mistake
(25:25):
like what if I throw that youknow armoire or not throw or
give this armoire to someoneelse who I don't know, and will
it haunt me for the rest of mylife?
You know, but most of the time,these feelings that you have
around, these regrets or themistakes afterwards, they
(25:48):
probably last two minutes or youknow, you know, and they and
you, you still breathe, yourheart's still beating and you're
still enjoying the morningcoffee the next day.
It's just, you know there's aplace for that, and so I have
people take the photographs anddo the videos, share a video
with other family members or askother family members to share
(26:09):
videos, stories about items thatthey're going to release.
You know, and sometimes I seeif there's another way to use
that piece in the space, youknow, challenge them to think
about.
Can you use that door as a um,uh, uh, a tray?
You know, a tray for somethingyou use in the future?
(26:31):
You actually use it, yeah, orit's stuff you get out of the
boxes, right, yeah?
Get out of the boxes, put it upon the wall or put it in a you
know place where people can seeit, and a conversation can begin
around that dead thing in thebox right Bring it to life,
right.
So it's just, it's practicingwith letting things go, feeling
(26:57):
the feelings, knowing thatyou're still going to be okay,
and usually there's like 1.1% ofstuff that people have regrets
about.
And we have regrets aboutthings, other things in life,
and we still live with those andwe make better decisions next
time or it influences us inanother way.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Right, exactly, it's amazing really how, um, how much
hold some things have.
It's just a thing, you know.
It's not a person, it's not ananimal, it's not.
It's a thing like, like thearmoire, it's just a thing.
(27:39):
But do you recommend I've readseveral places where some
organizers recommend, okay, whenyou're decluttering, you know,
if you really, if you have, youknow, well, first of all, I
think, if you have, like youknow, a thousand hummel pieces
or yard row pieces or whateveryou know, bring it down to 10 or
10 important ones, takepictures of the others or take a
(28:00):
picture of that armoire orwhatever.
Do you recommend that?
Do you find that that works forsome of your clients, taking a
picture of something beforegiving it away?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
oh yeah, I think it really is soothing for the soul.
It really allows them to, youknow.
I say, put it on your you knowcomputer screen, put the picture
there for as long as you needthat picture and just allow
yourself to fully kind of putclosure or appreciation around
that piece.
Don't deny the feelings thatyou're having because, like I
(28:35):
say, they, they're valuableprocessors and muscle builders
around you know some resistanceand decision-making.
The longer you can linger insome of that discomfort
decision-making, the longer youcan linger in some of that
(28:55):
discomfort, the more resilienceyou have.
As Emma Seppala she wrote theHappiness Track and she talked
about compassion is aboutbuilding resilience and grit in
your system because, or thequalities of compassion are
wisdom, kindness, patience andunderstanding.
(29:19):
Yeah, and, and those are thepieces that we're going through
when we look at and let go ofthat armoire you know like, and
we're getting stronger and yes,yeah, it builds confidence.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
It is amazing, you know, that is one thing.
It does make you stronger.
I mean, when I went throughthat major process, it does make
you stronger, and for whateverreason, well, I mean it does
make sense.
It made me freer.
I mean I really felt like Icould do so much more.
You know I could do.
(29:52):
Well, first of all, you gothrough something like that, you
know you, you do build up thatresilience because you're
challenging yourself each timeyou get rid of something or you
move something away or whatever.
And as the space, as the itemsget less and less, the items
that are left have moreimportance.
(30:14):
You know, so you have.
I don't know.
There's just this, I don't evenknow what to call it, but it
does change the entire way youfeel at home.
Freer is the only thing I canthink of.
I don't even know if that's theright word.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
It's a huge word in the decluttering process that
every single person feels thatfreedom from the release,
absolutely, and the weight ofthe burden that is lifted.
Yeah, that's part of it,because it's physical.
(30:50):
All of our stuff has energy,right and and and it takes up
and as that energy gets refinedand you're bringing out and
seeing for the first time maybethe real loved items that you
have that is also feeding you,yeah, instead of you know.
(31:13):
So it's a double win in theprocess of decluttering is
releasing heavy and burdenedenergy and then shining a light
on those beautiful things thatgive you that you love and give
you energy yeah, that give youjoy.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah, I mean because the other items, when you have
so much clutter, it's reallydepleting you of that because
it's just so busy and it's justso overwhelming.
But you're right, there's a lotof I mean, tied in with all of
that is all that guilt and so,and so gave me this.
I can't get rid of it, eventhough you know that person may
(31:48):
may have been, may have movedacross the world, or they're
never going to see them again,or they passed them.
I can't get rid of it.
That's what made me think abouttaking pictures of it, if that
was a viable kind of thing.
What do you do?
You think that there's anydifference in working with a
client who's 30 years old versuswith a client who's 80 years
(32:09):
old, versus with a client who's80 years old, as far as your
process with them?
I mean, the only thing I'mthinking of is maybe with an 80
year old, you're not dealingjust with the client, but with
the family too.
I mean, is there?
what do you see as the change?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Well, that's a really great question and my niche is
actually more on older, midlifeand older adults, primarily
women.
I don't have a good sense ofthat younger, 30 to 50
generation it's being 63 myselflike I don't know.
(32:47):
Am I?
They're four, they'll figure itout, and there is so much going
on in those you knowgenerations.
That is unique and I'm not anexpert in that, but what I find
is um for the 50 to 70 year olds.
They're um I can speak to theirand, again, I primarily work
(33:10):
with women.
And because these and the womenthat I work with they're
primarily professional, in someway it could be professional
volunteers, could beprofessional work.
You know they work in the workworld, they're educated, they're
really family and communityoriented um, really devoted and
(33:33):
super hard, working right andand they're ready for time for
the for themselves.
The kids are starting to.
Most of them have moved awayand got lives of their own and
she's looking around and saying,finally, I want to do something
for me.
It's still hard for them to dothat because the habits and
(33:56):
patterns and what people expectit makes and they're pleasing.
They like to please people.
A lot of us women do.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I'm guilty of that.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
yes, You're right, but so, but they're, they're
really passionately determinedto shake things up here at home
and they're ready to hire somehelp and and it's understanding
that you know they're they're onthe, you know, the later side
(34:32):
of their life you know, andthey're thinking about their
legacy and there's a lot ofstories around people leaving
four dumpsters worth of stufffor their kids to deal with,
(34:53):
deal with.
And I I worked for a senior movemanager company, um, carrying
transitions here in Minneapolis.
Um, and there was.
I helped them.
There were those five dumpsterclean routes that we had to work
on.
Um, it's a real thing andpeople are they want to do, they
want to dig in a little deepertoo.
They're not afraid.
They know.
They know because they've doneall the, they've had help with
(35:16):
organizing, they've had helpwith the books, and they're
coming to realize that I mightbe at the source of this problem
you know, and you know, they'vechecked off all the other
things that haven't worked, andso they're looking in the mirror
a little more honestly at thisstage of life and saying I'm
willing to do the work.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
So do you ever have family members coming to you to
help their aging parent versusthe aging parent asking?
Speaker 2 (35:44):
for help.
Yeah, I think that's a reallytricky place to be.
I think I think that's a reallytricky place to be.
Again, the work I do, we wantpeople who want to be here in
the, in the process, working ontheir own.
You know it's supporting theyoung.
(36:08):
You know the.
You know the the I'm sorry, thethe adult child, okay, yeah,
the adult.
Is that what they're calledRight In your world?
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, the adult kids.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, that's the yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Although the funny thing is, you know I think I've
mentioned another time we spokeis that because people are aging
so much longer now, you know,because of medicine and vaccines
and everything, people are justliving so much longer.
Um know, because of medicineand vaccines and everything,
people are just living so muchlonger, healthier, longer.
It's amazing that seniors youknow, the adult kids are seniors
too.
The seniors are taking care ofseniors, so it seems funny
(36:41):
talking about them as kids, butthey are the adult kids, yeah
they are Right.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
So most of the time I run across the adult kids who
are dealing with aging parents,and some that still have kids at
home.
You know, they're taking careof their kids too, and so I was
on this midlife.
What was it called?
(37:11):
Midlife?
Yeah, a mindset it's.
It's a, it's a podcast onmidlife women, and by um, oh, my
gosh, my, my whole brain, robinaustin.
She's a phd nurse educator.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Um, oh, midlife unmasked is the name of her
podcast on what um midlifeunmasked oh, unmasked, oh,
midlife, I thought you said onmeth, oh that's so terrible,
what, what?
Did you just say I'm writing itdown midlife unmasked.
(37:50):
All right, I love it, that'sbetter, that's a better title.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Okay, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely,
absolutely.
And you know she's in thatsituation where she's talking
about her parents and has kids.
There is so much weight on thesewomen's shoulders to honor the
parents in the process andcontinue to tend to the roles
(38:17):
and responsibilities they haveat home, the boundaries that
need to be established in theeffort to find collaborators in
this process, it's you've got tostop the boat sometime and just
try to put together a planwhere you get the help on both
(38:39):
sides of the equation, encouragefamily members, your kids, to
get involved, because you know,like me, I'm kind of a
controller, you know, in myhousehold and I wanted things
done a certain way in my house.
So I did everything and after awhile I started to get really
(39:00):
angry.
You know I resentful resentful,that's a better word and
finally I'm like I'm not gonnacook dinner so much as so
regularly as I have who else isgoing to do that?
And I don't want to mow thelawn anymore.
You know, like right, and wegot to figure out how to share
(39:22):
those things and it we've got toopen our mouth and ask for help
in on both ends of the spectrumin those situations.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
So yeah, it's true, boundaries are so very important
.
You know, I just wrote a fewarticles on that topic and I I
it almost made me think.
Well, it did make me think thatyou almost need a 12-step
program kind of thing for, um,for, and it is mostly women.
(39:50):
I mean, there are a few men whoare caregivers, but it's mostly
.
It mostly falls on the womenand you know they're working, so
they have their work life, theyhave their caregiving life,
they have their you know, theirwife life, their mother life.
I mean, it is overwhelming andit's impossible for anyone to
(40:10):
survive that without beingresentful or angry or completely
broken.
Yes resentful or angry or orcompletely broken.
Yes, gotten to the point whereI know so many of my friends
have done done just that, andwhen their parent did finally
pass away, they ended up with aserious illness because they
weren't attending to themselves.
(40:31):
They couldn't, and all thestress and everything that comes
along with it.
It's just.
When you look at it from theoutside it seems ridiculous.
You know why are you doing that, but when you're on the inside
it's so emotionally built andwho knows what the relationship
was between the parents and thekids.
That's why I think it is sodifferent, you know, with
(40:54):
younger adults versus olderadults on, and the whole process
.
Um and I guess I mean it's truewith anything every client that
you go to is very.
Do you have a um, some kind ofa pre-questionnaire or something
that can, like show you whatthe client is before you meet
(41:15):
the client?
Did I say that correctly?
Speaker 2 (41:17):
I got.
I got your message, yes okay soI do a 30-minute discovery call
beforehand and kind ofunderstand where they're coming
from, what their goals are, whatthey want um from what do they
need?
What do they want from a coach?
Speaker 1 (41:33):
do they?
Speaker 2 (41:33):
have ever been coached before um and get a
sense of their readiness andtalk about this work that
they've done already to getstarted and how that's been
going.
If they haven't startedanything, I ask them to you know
, take a month and let's work onone project that you want to
(41:55):
get done and just practice onthat and see how willing you are
to let things go.
If your goal is to, you know,clean off the um out the buffet,
you know um, and and we'll talkabout actual percentages Do you
want to get rid of 30% or doyou want to get rid of 50%?
And then we'll, you know, havethem call me back and we'll talk
(42:18):
again and see where they werein that you know that project
and their willingness factorbecause that's what we do
together is there's a major goalthat's explored through a two
hour get to know session.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Um, that we have.
And I asked you know eight totwo, 11 questions, um, about you
know successes they've had intheir life, what they're known
for.
You know roadblocks thatthey're aware of when it comes
to decluttering and how theyrespond?
And, um, you know just variousquestions, getting to know them
(42:59):
deeper.
Because this is a wonderfullywe create a container for this
work to be done in a safe andrespectful way where client is
leading this process, but I amlocked arm and arm with that
(43:19):
client and being theircheerleader, keeping them moving
, keeping them on track,watching the distractions.
Okay, you're going in thisdirection now, is that it's okay
?
If you changed your direction,yeah, let's revisit where you
want it to go and redefine whatyour new.
(43:39):
You know the, this nuance ofthis new.
If this goal is and but we I'mthe client is doing all of the
change and the growth.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
They have to.
I mean it's them.
You're coaching, you're notdoing right as a virtual coach
Right, right, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
And the beauty of the work we do I do with creating
teams in this process is tocollaborate with other
organizers and declutterers.
Again, I can do this all overthe world because I have a
network of organizers anddeclutter not world, united
States and the three of us theclient, myself and the coach and
(44:27):
the organizer declutter seniormove manager, whomever it may be
.
We're just in this.
We're all going in the samedirection with this client and
it's proven to be.
This is kind of a revolutionaryway to think about decluttering
in this team process and I'mI'm working to establish this
(44:48):
concept by meeting otherorganizers and from around the
world.
So around the world I don'tknow why I keep saying that
around the earth I know what youmean, and I mean you could go
worldwide, of course.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Um, I love that idea because, um, if you are, what it
sounds like to me is that youare the project manager of this
team.
You know you're the contractorthat's coming in and then you're
, you know, supervising, becausesomebody has to lay out the
team goals so that everyone isaware of where you're going,
(45:21):
what you're doing and how thingschange.
Things may change in the middleof creating that.
So is that how you work, howyou tailor each project for each
client, you know, depending onwhat they need?
Maybe an estate planner, I meannot an estate planner, what do
they call the estate company,estate auctions, or that come in
(45:43):
and yeah, yeah, yeah, estatesales, Estate sales, yes and
truly.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
I never want to lose sight of the fact that the
client is the one who's reallykeeping us on track and, as
support staff, if you will, um,support people we, we are just
ensuring that we're all doing,moving in the direction that
that client wants to go.
Um, so I may be, I'm, I mightbe someone at at the hub.
(46:15):
Just well, I'm not even at ahub.
I see us as a triangle.
We're all equally important inthe process and knowing that
maybe at the peak of thattriangle is the client's vision,
I like that picture better.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I like that picture in my head better.
So do you provide your clientswith a workbook or sheets or
something that keeps them, youknow, working towards their goal
?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Well, because actually you know shameless plug
, my book is a working journaland it's actually my process of
working through self-compassion,attachment and values,
clarification, visionclarification, decision making
tools.
So we're doing a lot of thatthroughout the process and we
(47:06):
really have to establish avision.
First and foremost, we have toknow where we're going.
Where does that client want togo?
That's our North Star.
Where does that client want togo?
That's our North Star.
And all around that, supportsupported by the values, and
(47:42):
making sure we're living ourvalues within that vision.
Because a lot of us can talkabout the values we have where
we're going by re, you know,just identifying those values in
the process too.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
So yeah, if I answered your question I find
most people don't even reallyknow their values.
You know, they haven't takenthe time to sit down.
They they may think they know,but then when you really
question them they just go uh.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Well, I have a very easy 12-minute video on
meditation on my website in myresources section and for both
vision and values, along withthe worksheet.
There's a worksheet thereanyone can go and I'm always
(48:24):
curious where it takes peopleand and how it shines a light on
maybe some new information.
It's kind of fun.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
I love that.
I mean that ties in so wellwith that whole type of
compassionate decluttering,because it's not just, you know,
like I said at the beginning,when I got this book and I was
looking through it, it's sodifferent from so many of the
other decluttering books thatI've gotten, and even even you
know, youtube videos andwebinars, whatever because I
(48:54):
really do believe thatdecluttering is the number one
step to the very first step toaging in place.
Yeah, you know is what my nicheis.
But, um, but what was made thisbook so different is that, like
you said, you're coming fromthe inside.
You're not only declutteringthe environment around you.
That the environment, I alwaysthink is a reflection of what's
(49:16):
inside.
So you have to declutter that,work on that, and then it just
kind of glows out.
You know it just comes out andit starts working.
It's like a light coming out ofyou and it starts, you know,
fixing the environment.
You know if I could create apicture, that's what I think of.
I like that.
I love that.
(49:36):
You're.
You know that this came out,that I love that you're.
You know that this came out.
I love that you did that book.
I think it's, I think it's abeautiful book, so anyone
listening or watching definitelyI'll have links to it I think
it's a perfect book to have foranyone who's who's even just
beginning to think about how doI go through this process,
(49:56):
because it really does take timeand you have to give yourself
time not only to get into thatmindset but then to actually
physically do it yes, and thatword mindset is so critical and
that's where the essence of thebook is.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
It's shifting the way you're thinking about your
stuff, you know, because theprocess of decluttering and for
if people, like adult children,know that their parents may be
in the next couple of years orthree, you know, have there
might be a change coming forthem and their lifestyle to
(50:32):
include the parents in thisconversation about you know
what's important and where, andand allowing them to, because it
takes did I already say this ittakes a couple years to just
make that transition and ratherbe ahead of it.
It's never too early to startright right, it's never too
(50:53):
early to start.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
I mean, you definitely want to start.
I.
I have a great friend who whopracticed from the.
I've known her 30 years and shetaught her children and she and
her husband practice it.
If one item comes into thehouse, one item goes out of the
house and her kids still do thatand I think that that you know.
But it it takes time and ittakes practice.
(51:14):
It takes a mindset, yes, but ifyou're not born with that, if
you don't have that immediately,it's going to take.
You have to be patient withyourself and realize it will
happen.
You know very much like a slowdiet.
You know post-menopause dietingis very, very, very slow.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
Exactly, and it's.
It's just what?
What right?
One small project at a time andone small project at a time?
Speaker 1 (51:42):
yeah, it's true oh, michelle, this was amazing.
Um what other resources do youhave on your website?
Can you um it's?
Speaker 2 (51:50):
mostly resources associated with my book, and
every chapter might have threeor four uh work.
It's um activities andassociated worksheets and things
like that, so people can dig inand and see what comes up for
them.
Um, I'm, I'm available to callit, talk to me anytime.
(52:13):
Uh, you can find myself onlinkedin and on instagram.
Um, I've got I do two minutevideos, you know, once a month
and I've got a I I meet withpeople who want to are
interested in life coaching.
I mean home coaching andworking with organizers.
(52:33):
I have a monthly meeting withum organizers.
My, you know you can see it onmy LinkedIn or Instagram.
Uh, what's coming up in thenext month?
Speaker 1 (52:45):
So I love that.
So tell me your website again.
And um is that the best way forpeople to get a hold of you is
through the website?
Speaker 2 (52:56):
Excuse me, me um homecoachhoffcom.
Okay, easy, breezy, and samehomecoachhoffcom at linkedin and
instagram.
Um, I think, my, I thinklinkedin is the best way to get
a hold of me, okay, and if youtell me what your clients would
(53:16):
you know when you think of TV?
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Yeah, I mean, I think , if you have a phone number on
your website, if you have acontact page on your website,
then I mean those two inaddition to LinkedIn.
Those are three excellent ways,and it's homecoach H-O-F-F, as
in Frank com, in case peoplearen't hearing it well, oh, and
(53:38):
I've got a newsletter that ifyou go, if you go on my website,
yeah, Two free chapters of mybook.
Oh great.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Yeah, and I, you know I don't pressure people.
I have stories and that doesstill down to you know one or
two lines about decluttering,that distill down to.
You know one or two lines aboutdecluttering, but it's really
how life is all about.
You know the choices we makeright and how we manage those
(54:09):
choices.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah, and manage the events that happen to us?
Yeah, because things happen.
So, it's not what happenshappens, it's how you react to
what happens at the end of theday.
But it's a beautifully writtenbook.
I mean, thank you.
You know I I love the way it itfollows.
I, I think it's, I think it'sexcellent, I think you did a
great job.
(54:31):
So again, it was worth the 12years yeah, I know I can't
believe it's been 12, but it'sum.
It was worth the 12 years.
Yeah, I know I can't believeit's been 12.
But it's beautiful.
You can tell there's a lot oflove in it and it flows well.
You know, I don't know how youdecided what went first, second,
third, whatever, but it'sbeautifully written.
I think you did a great job,easy to follow, so I thank you
(54:53):
so much, thank you.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Thank you, thank you, oh wow, thank you so much,
thank you, thank you, thank you.
So such a pleasure, mr.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
Yeah, I look forward to talking to you more, not only
about this, but you know allthe other amazing because you
are so well rounded.
It's your.
You know there's some peoplethat you meet that you can only
talk to about two, three things,and then that's it their.
Their extent of knowledge is ina box.
(55:19):
And then other people theirknowledge base is, you know, the
size of the planet.
So I love that because it makesconversation flow so much
easier, and I mean you learnfrom each and every person.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
You do Well, thank you, and I admire what you're
doing so much as well.
I look forward to furthercollaborations with you and
every person.
You do Well, thank you, and Iadmire what you're doing so much
as well.
I look forward to furthercollaborations with you and
other people.
I know you've got a new personyou're going to interview soon
that I'm very curious about andI want to follow that interview.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yeah, I'm always looking for you know people to
interview and you know.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Anything that's unique and different I love
because I think it makes itforces you to think out of your
box, and when I write thearticles and when I do the
webinars for the members of thedirectory, I always try to think
of you know, an out of the boxway to use this or that or
(56:16):
whatever.
Like you know, today I did awebinar on Amazon affiliate
program and how that can boostyour income, and a lot of people
don't think.
A lot of aging placeprofessionals don't consider,
even considered, using Amazon aspart of an income booster, but
it, it absolutely can be, wow,so, um, all right, so hold on
(56:36):
for a little bit, but I want tothank everybody and I will see
you in the next podcast.
Thank you.
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