September 12, 2025 • 18 mins
In this Forbes Edition of AI Café Conversations, Sahar Andrade rethinks empathy in leadership.
Using neuroscience and leadership insights, she explains why self-awareness is the real superpower behind trust, clarity, and performance. Learn how executives, HR professionals, and coaches can strengthen empathy through self-awareness, supported by AI coaching tools for executives that reveal blind spots and create genuine human connection.
This episode is designed for executives, HR professionals, and coaches who see the urgency of AI adoption but want it to align with human connection, not replace it.
Email me at sahar@saharconsulting.com with questions or topic suggestions for future episodes.
My book "The Coach's Brain Meets AI" is available on Amazon, and I'll send extra guides if you email me after purchasing. Follow me on LinkedIn (Sahar Andrade) and Instagram (Sahar the Reinvent Coach).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hello, hello, hello and welcome back to AI Cafe
Conversations, whereneuroscience meets AI for
executives.
I am Sahar Enradi, your AIwhisperer.
I am also a Forbes CoachCouncil council official member
and an executive coach.
Today, I want to challenge theway we talk about empathy in
leadership.
This is our extra episode.
(00:35):
This is the extra flavor ofcoffee that I started putting
for you on Fridays.
This is not our usual Wednesdayregular podcast that we have, so
I just thought maybe a shot ofespresso would be nice on this
Friday before going on theweekend.
Anyhow, everyone praisesempathy as a superpower,
(00:55):
including myself, but the truthis, without self-awareness,
empathy collapses and you lookat me like are you crazy?
Actually, no, and I'm going totell you why I'm going to take
you in this episode we willexplore the neuroscience of
empathy and self-awareness.
Tools for executives can helpmirror back the truth.
(01:24):
They can't always see, becausethe real leadership superpower
isn't just feeling for othersand be a sponge and just absorb
all that pain and anxiety andstress and become burned out.
(01:44):
But it all depends on stepnumber one, which is first
knowing yourself, and we'regoing to talk about
self-awareness today.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Welcome to the Deep Dive.
We're here to cut through thenoise and get you really
informed on topics that matter.
Okay, imagine this scenario.
You're a leader, you've heardit constantly, right, empathy is
the key.
Maybe you've even done thetraining, taken this scenario
You're a leader, you've heard itconstantly.
Right, empathy is the key.
Maybe you've even done thetraining, taken the notes.
But what if?
What if that traditionalempathy training is actually
well making things tougher?
for you for your team, notbetter.
(02:17):
Today we were diving deep intoa really fascinating piece from
Forbes.
It's by Sahar Andrade, calledRethinking Empathy Neuroscience
of Self-Aware Leadership.
It challenges some reallycommon ideas.
It offers this science-backedlook at what truly drives
impactful leadership.
We're going to dig into whyjust focusing on empathy might
backfire and what theneuroscience actually suggests
(02:39):
is a more effective way forward.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Exactly, and our mission here really is to unpack
that neuroscience you know, thestuff behind emotional
intelligence and trutially todraw a line between empathy and
compassion they're not the samething and ultimately we want to
reveal this leadershipsuperpower that often just gets
missed.
It's all about self-awarenessand emotional regulation.
(03:01):
So, yeah, get ready to maybequestion some things you thought
you knew, get some practicaltools and figure out what
leading with real presenceactually looks like.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Okay.
So this brings us straight towhat the article calls the
empathy training paradox.
Sahar Andrade shares this well,pretty stark story from one of
her sessions.
She asks a room of leaders,okay, who's had empathy training
?
37 hands go up, lots of people.
But then she asks all right,what's the first cornerstone of
emotional intelligence?
And crickets silence, not onehand.
(03:29):
These are experienced execs,right, but with all that
training they couldn't name theabsolute foundation
self-awareness.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah and that's where the author uses that really
powerful analogy that we've beentraining leaders to be
emotional lifeguards who can'tswim.
It just hits the nail on thehead, doesn't it, trying to
rescue others from trickyemotional waters when you're
well flailing yourself, notgrounded.
It's this fundamental problemlike trying to pour from an
empty cup, you can't give whatyou don't have.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Essentially, that lifeguards who can't swim idea
Wow, it really sticks with you.
But what's happening inside ourheads biologically that makes
us so prone to soaking up otherpeople's feelings even when
we're trying to be helpful?
The article talks aboutsomething called the mirror
neuron trap.
What's that about?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Right, so we have these fascinating brain cells,
mirror neurons.
They don't just fire when we dosomething, they fire when we
see someone else do it, or evenwhen we see them feel an emotion
.
Now, this was super importantfor our ancestors, you know,
quickly sensing danger orbonding within the group.
But here's the catch forleaders today Without good
self-regulation, these mirrorneurons become, like the article
(04:37):
says, a mirror trap.
Instead of just observing orunderstanding, you start
reflecting every single anxiety,every stress, right into your
own limbic system.
That's your brain's emotionalcenter, the part dealing with
feelings, survival.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And this isn't just a theory, is it?
The article gives a prettyvivid example.
This VP, Sarah, she took allthe empathy training to heart,
felt everything they feel andended up having panic attacks.
She couldn't switch it off,Became an emotional sponge, as
the article puts it.
So if you're absorbing stresslike that, what does it
physically do to you, to yourbrain, your body?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Ah yeah, that leads straight into what's called the
cortisol catastrophe.
When you soak up other people'sstress, your body's stress
response system the HPA axis itdoesn't really know the
difference between your crisisand theirs.
It just floods your system withcortisol.
And the article calls cortisolyour brains worst enemy for good
reason too.
It's kind of like imaginesomeone slamming the brakes on
(05:31):
your car while you're hittingthe gas.
You're trying to be apathetic,trying to connect, but your
brain is basically caught inthis physiological gridlock okay
.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So if cortisol is literally slamming the brakes on
our thinking, what are the reallasting effects?
How does it impact a leader'sability to make good decisions?
Show real empathy when they'reconstantly dealing with this
cortisol flood.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well, the long-term effects are pretty significant.
Chronic cortisol it actuallyshrinks your prefrontal cortex.
Think of that as your brain'sCEO planning, decision-making,
genuine empathy.
That gets smaller and meanwhileit actually beefs up your
amygdala.
That's like the brain's alarmsystem.
So you become hypersensitive,constantly scanning for threats
for the next crisis.
(06:13):
You basically get stuck in thisloop always on edge, always
reacting instead of you knowthoughtfully responding.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Wow.
So if absorbing stress leavesus so well depleted and reactive
, it makes you wonder are weeven thinking about empathy the
right way?
The article mentions researchfrom the Max Planck Society
drawing this really sharp linebetween empathy and something
else compassion.
It defines empathy as feelingwhat others feel, like we just
talked about.
That can activate your own painnetworks.
(06:40):
It leads to empathic distress.
The article puts it prettybluntly Empathy in this sense
can create two victims thatwhole I feel your pain thing.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Exactly.
And that's where compassion isso different that Max Planck
research it showed compassionlights up completely different
brain areas, networks linked tocare, positive feelings,
motivation to help.
So instead of distress intovictims, compassion gives you
this drive to find a solution.
Compassion is more like I seeyour pain and I want to help,
not I feel your pain.
(07:08):
So yeah, the article is clearone drains you, potentially
creates two victims.
The other one it creates asolution, it empowers
constructive action and thatdistinction feels really
important.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So how, how does a leader, maybe intense moment,
make that shift, go from thedraining?
I feel your pain to the moreconstructive.
I see your pain and I'm here.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Well, that ties right into another key idea that
often gets missed in leadershiptraining Interoceptive
intelligence.
It sounds fancy, but it'sbasically sensing what's going
on inside your own body.
You know your heart rate, yourbreathing, that knot in your
shoulders.
These aren't just physicalthings.
The article calls thememotional data streams.
Your vagus nerve, for example,is constantly sending messages
(07:51):
between your brain and body,affecting your heart rate, how
you engage socially.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Okay, emotional data streams, I like that, but how
tuned in are most leaders tothis internal data, and what
happens if they're just notlistening?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Honestly, most leaders aren't very tuned in at
all, and that's a problem,because if you lack that
interoceptive awareness, youcan't really tell the difference
between your own emotionalstate and what's coming from
your team.
And when you're unaware, as thearticle says, your biology
drives your behaviorunconsciously.
You might think you'reresponding to the situation out
there, but actually you'rereacting from your own internal
(08:24):
state, which you haven't evenacknowledged.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
That unconscious biology driving things.
Yeah, that sounds like aperfect setup for being
inauthentic, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
The article talks about this artificial harmony
problem, especially with Gen Zbeing quick to spot fakeness.
How does that corporateemotional theater actually harm
a team?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Oh, it's incredibly damaging.
People and yeah, especiallyyounger generations have sharp
BS detectors.
If a leader is just mirroringemotions, trying to look
empathetic, but isn't genuinelyregulated inside, it creates
this feeling the author callscorporate emotional theater that
nobody believes.
It's like that other analogy adrowning person trying to save
another drowning person.
There's this mismatch betweenwhat they're projecting and
(09:05):
what's really going oninternally.
People sense that misalignmentand it just erodes trust.
Okay, so if just beingempathetic can backfire and
being tuned into our own body'sinteroception is so vital,
what's the actual path forward?
The article really pushes forthe self-awareness solution.
But you know, for a lot of busyleaders focusing inward feels
(09:29):
well selfish Executives mightpush back right, thinking my job
is to put my people first.
But the article flips that,saying taking care of yourself
is putting people first.
How does that work?
It sounds contradictory.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
It sounds contradictory, but it makes
perfect sense biologically.
You simply cannot give what youdon't possess.
When you, as a leader, aregrounded, regulated, you're
actually able to serve your teameffectively.
You shift from being, you know,one crisis away from breaking
to being genuinely ready,willing and able.
And the neuroscience backs thisup strongly.
Research shows when a leadergets their heart rhythm into a
coherent state, balanced, steady, their whole nervous system
(10:04):
syncs up and that coherent stateit's contagious.
Teams literally unconsciouslyentrain to their leader's
regulated rhythm.
It's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Contagious coherence.
That's a powerful image, butstill that idea of prioritizing
self-awareness it can feel likea hurdle, like it's taking time
away from the team.
How do we get past thatingrained perception?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
It really requires a fundamental mindset shift.
We need to stop seeingemotional regulation as some
kind of soft skill luxury andstart seeing it as the core
leadership competency.
It as the core leadershipcompetency.
The biggest pushback the authormentions is exactly that.
I don't have time forself-reflection.
You can picture it right thatstartup founder running on his
(10:46):
fourth espresso insisting it's aluxury they just can't afford.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, I can picture that.
So what's the actual cost ofthat no time attitude?
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Well, the article delivers a pretty stark warning
there.
It says this mindset is whatmakes everything harder.
Sure that constant adrenalinemight feel productive for a
while, but burnout is almostinevitable.
The analogy used is intense.
It's like pouring kerosene onthe floor and lighting a match.
Those burning flames make theroom brighter at first, but
total destruction follows.
You're essentially sacrificinglong-term sustainability your
(11:16):
own and your team's forshort-term intensity.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yikes, okay, that's a sobering thought.
So what's a realistic firststep, Something practical to
break that cycle?
The article suggests a30-second brain reset.
It says before every teaminteraction, just take 3D
breaths plus a 30-second bodyscan.
Check your heart rate, noticetension, feel your breathing.
It sounds almost too simple.
What's actually happening inour brain during those 30
(11:41):
seconds?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
It's simple but profound neurologically those
deep breaths and the quick bodyscan.
They deliberately activate yourkaryosympathetic nervous system
, that's your body's rest anddigest or calm and connect
system.
It directly counters the fightor flight stress response.
It creates a pause, a bit ofspace, allowing your prefrontal
cortex, your thinking brain, tocome back online before you
(12:03):
engage with others.
It's about intentionallyshifting your own state first.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Okay, that makes sense, shifting your state first
.
Another really interesting toolmentioned is the emotional
granularity factor.
This idea is about gettingspecific with your emotions, not
just saying I'm stressed soinstead of recognizing, okay,
I'm actually frustrated withthese unclear expectations, or
maybe I'm feeling anxious aboutgetting these resources.
How does just naming thefeeling more precisely actually
(12:30):
help us manage it?
That's the science there.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
That specificity is huge when you can label your
feelings with more precision,more granularity.
It helps create new neuralpathways Instead of the amygdala
that quick trigger alarm belljust sounding a general alarm
like stress, danger.
Getting specific engages theprefrontal cortex more your
problem solving brain.
So for leaders, developing thisemotional specificity allows
(12:54):
you to identify, understand andthen regulate your own response
before you react or try toengage with someone else's
emotions.
It helps you move from justfeeling overwhelmed to thinking
OK, what's really going on hereand what can I do?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
This all sounds incredibly valuable, but maybe
like a whole new skill set tolearn.
Can anyone actually get betterat this, or are some people just
born more self-aware?
The article offers somethingcalled the neuroplasticity
promise.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yes, and this is so crucial.
The neuroplasticity promise isbasically the science saying
your brain can change.
It can learn new patterns, newways of responding at any age.
Research on neuroplasticity isreally clear about this.
When you consistently practiceemotional regulation techniques
like the breathing, the bodyscan, the specific labeling, you
literally rewire your brain.
Areas like the anteriorcingulate cortex involved in
(13:41):
regulation become more active.
The prefrontal cortex getsstronger connections, better
able to manage the amygdala'simpulses.
It's a real physical change butand this is key it takes
deliberate practice, not genericempathy training.
You have to actually do thework.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Okay, so deliberate practice can rewire our brains.
This leads us to a reallyfundamental point.
The article makes the contagionchoice.
Every leader is making a choice, consciously or not.
What exactly are leadersbroadcasting, and how does that
spread through a team?
Like a contagion.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
You're constantly broadcasting your nervous system
state, constantly.
It happens through tiny things,microexpressions on your face,
the tone of your voice, yourposture, your body language,
your team's mirror neurons.
They pick up on these signals,often completely unconsciously.
It's this deep biologicalresonance happening all the time
.
So when you show up regulated,calm, centered, you essentially
(14:34):
give everyone else permission toregulate too.
You create a calmer environment.
But the flip side is also true.
If you show up anxious,stressed, reactive, you
inadvertently teach your teamthat that's the appropriate
response to pressure.
You spread dysregulation.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That's huge.
Yeah, it really reframesleadership impact, doesn't it?
Which brings us to thearticle's big claim
Self-awareness is the realleadership superpower.
It even says that when leadersstop trying so hard to be
empathetic and focus instead onbecoming aware and regulated,
genuine empathy just emergesnaturally.
How did that work?
How does regulation unlockempathy?
Speaker 3 (15:07):
It works because a regulated nervous system
actually has the capacity forgenuine connection and
understanding.
Think about it A dysregulatedsystem, caught up in that
cortisol catastrophe with ahyperactive amygdala.
It's fundamentally orientedtowards survival,
self-protection.
Oriented towards survival,self-protection.
It just doesn't have thebandwidth, the internal
resources for nuancedunderstanding or deep connection
(15:28):
, because it's too busy fightingits own internal fires.
So when you cultivate thatinternal calm, that
self-awareness and regulation,you create the necessary space
within yourself for authenticempathy to arise, naturally,
without that draining absorptionwe talked about earlier.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
So it's moving beyond just personal well-being.
Emotional regulation becomes anactual organizational strategy.
Yeah, and the key questionshifts right, not just how can I
be more empathetic, but, as thearticle suggests, asking
yourself what emotional state amI creating in this room right
now?
Why is that question sotransformative?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Because it recognizes that your own nervous system is
arguably the most powerfulleadership tool you have.
Full stop when you shift yourfocus from an outward how do I
fix them or feel like them to aninward, what energy, what state
am I bringing into thisinteraction?
It changes everything.
It moves you from potentiallybeing that overwhelmed emotional
sponge or the drowninglifeguard to being a grounded,
(16:22):
clear, present leader who cangenuinely support, guide and
uplift their team.
It fosters an environment wherepeople feel safer, think
clearer and can actually thrivetogether.
That's not just betterleadership.
The article calls ittransformation, and I think
that's right.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Wow, okay, that really does reframe things.
What a deep dive into somethingmany of us thought we had
figured out.
The big takeaway today seemscrystal clear true, effective
empathy and leadership.
It's not really about justabsorbing what others feel.
It's about cultivating your owndeep self-awareness and
learning to regulate your ownemotional state first, like you
said, you can't be a calmlifeguard if you can't swim
(16:56):
yourself.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Precisely.
And that regulated state, thatinternal coherence in a leader.
It sends out these powerfulripples.
It doesn't just impact your ownfocus and decisions.
It fundamentally affects yourteam's collective state, their
ability to handle challenges,their creativity, their overall
well-being.
So, yeah, this isn't just, youknow, a nice to have personal
development thing.
It's actually a core strategicimperative for any organization
(17:20):
that wants to be resilient,innovative and, frankly, human.
So maybe the provocativethought to leave you with today
is this what's one small, trulydeliberate practice you could
bring into your week?
Just one thing to become moreaware of your own internal state
, maybe right before you walkinto that next meeting or
conversation, and just noticehow might that single conscious
(17:41):
moment of self-awareness rippleoutwards, how might it shift the
dynamic even slightly in thatvery next interaction you have
Something to think about.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
That was today's Forbes edition of AI Cafe
Conversations.
Remember this empathy withoutself-awareness is an empty
gesture.
Neuroscience shows us that whenleaders understand their own
minds, they can truly connect,inspire and transform.
Whether you are an executive,an HR leader or coach, use these
(18:13):
insights and even the right AIcoaching tools to deepen your
leadership, one honestreflection at a time.
Thank you for listening.
Share this with the leader whoneeds to hear it and join me
next week on Wednesday for ourregular, more human-centered
conversations at the cafe.
(18:34):
If you have any questions,please email me at sahar at
saharconsultingcom.
My website issaharconsultingcom.
Show me some love, give me alike, share, subscribe and show
it to someone that needs to hearit today.
Till next time.
Hello, hello, hello and welcome back to AI Cafe
Conversations, whereneuroscience meets AI for
executives.
I am Sahar Enradi, your AIwhisperer.
I am also a Forbes CoachCouncil council official member
and an executive coach.
Today, I want to challenge theway we talk about empathy in
leadership.
This is our extra episode.
(00:35):
This is the extra flavor ofcoffee that I started putting
for you on Fridays.
This is not our usual Wednesdayregular podcast that we have, so
I just thought maybe a shot ofespresso would be nice on this
Friday before going on theweekend.
Anyhow, everyone praisesempathy as a superpower,
(00:55):
including myself, but the truthis, without self-awareness,
empathy collapses and you lookat me like are you crazy?
Actually, no, and I'm going totell you why I'm going to take
you in this episode we willexplore the neuroscience of
empathy and self-awareness.
Tools for executives can helpmirror back the truth.
(01:24):
They can't always see, becausethe real leadership superpower
isn't just feeling for othersand be a sponge and just absorb
all that pain and anxiety andstress and become burned out.
(01:44):
But it all depends on stepnumber one, which is first
knowing yourself, and we'regoing to talk about
self-awareness today.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Welcome to the Deep Dive.
We're here to cut through thenoise and get you really
informed on topics that matter.
Okay, imagine this scenario.
You're a leader, you've heardit constantly, right, empathy is
the key.
Maybe you've even done thetraining, taken this scenario
You're a leader, you've heard itconstantly.
Right, empathy is the key.
Maybe you've even done thetraining, taken the notes.
But what if?
What if that traditionalempathy training is actually
well making things tougher?
for you for your team, notbetter.
(02:17):
Today we were diving deep intoa really fascinating piece from
Forbes.
It's by Sahar Andrade, calledRethinking Empathy Neuroscience
of Self-Aware Leadership.
It challenges some reallycommon ideas.
It offers this science-backedlook at what truly drives
impactful leadership.
We're going to dig into whyjust focusing on empathy might
backfire and what theneuroscience actually suggests
(02:39):
is a more effective way forward.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Exactly, and our mission here really is to unpack
that neuroscience you know, thestuff behind emotional
intelligence and trutially todraw a line between empathy and
compassion they're not the samething and ultimately we want to
reveal this leadershipsuperpower that often just gets
missed.
It's all about self-awarenessand emotional regulation.
(03:01):
So, yeah, get ready to maybequestion some things you thought
you knew, get some practicaltools and figure out what
leading with real presenceactually looks like.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Okay.
So this brings us straight towhat the article calls the
empathy training paradox.
Sahar Andrade shares this well,pretty stark story from one of
her sessions.
She asks a room of leaders,okay, who's had empathy training
?
37 hands go up, lots of people.
But then she asks all right,what's the first cornerstone of
emotional intelligence?
And crickets silence, not onehand.
(03:29):
These are experienced execs,right, but with all that
training they couldn't name theabsolute foundation
self-awareness.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah and that's where the author uses that really
powerful analogy that we've beentraining leaders to be
emotional lifeguards who can'tswim.
It just hits the nail on thehead, doesn't it, trying to
rescue others from trickyemotional waters when you're
well flailing yourself, notgrounded.
It's this fundamental problemlike trying to pour from an
empty cup, you can't give whatyou don't have.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Essentially, that lifeguards who can't swim idea
Wow, it really sticks with you.
But what's happening inside ourheads biologically that makes
us so prone to soaking up otherpeople's feelings even when
we're trying to be helpful?
The article talks aboutsomething called the mirror
neuron trap.
What's that about?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Right, so we have these fascinating brain cells,
mirror neurons.
They don't just fire when we dosomething, they fire when we
see someone else do it, or evenwhen we see them feel an emotion
.
Now, this was super importantfor our ancestors, you know,
quickly sensing danger orbonding within the group.
But here's the catch forleaders today Without good
self-regulation, these mirrorneurons become, like the article
(04:37):
says, a mirror trap.
Instead of just observing orunderstanding, you start
reflecting every single anxiety,every stress, right into your
own limbic system.
That's your brain's emotionalcenter, the part dealing with
feelings, survival.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And this isn't just a theory, is it?
The article gives a prettyvivid example.
This VP, Sarah, she took allthe empathy training to heart,
felt everything they feel andended up having panic attacks.
She couldn't switch it off,Became an emotional sponge, as
the article puts it.
So if you're absorbing stresslike that, what does it
physically do to you, to yourbrain, your body?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Ah yeah, that leads straight into what's called the
cortisol catastrophe.
When you soak up other people'sstress, your body's stress
response system the HPA axis itdoesn't really know the
difference between your crisisand theirs.
It just floods your system withcortisol.
And the article calls cortisolyour brains worst enemy for good
reason too.
It's kind of like imaginesomeone slamming the brakes on
(05:31):
your car while you're hittingthe gas.
You're trying to be apathetic,trying to connect, but your
brain is basically caught inthis physiological gridlock okay
.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So if cortisol is literally slamming the brakes on
our thinking, what are the reallasting effects?
How does it impact a leader'sability to make good decisions?
Show real empathy when they'reconstantly dealing with this
cortisol flood.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well, the long-term effects are pretty significant.
Chronic cortisol it actuallyshrinks your prefrontal cortex.
Think of that as your brain'sCEO planning, decision-making,
genuine empathy.
That gets smaller and meanwhileit actually beefs up your
amygdala.
That's like the brain's alarmsystem.
So you become hypersensitive,constantly scanning for threats
for the next crisis.
(06:13):
You basically get stuck in thisloop always on edge, always
reacting instead of you knowthoughtfully responding.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Wow.
So if absorbing stress leavesus so well depleted and reactive
, it makes you wonder are weeven thinking about empathy the
right way?
The article mentions researchfrom the Max Planck Society
drawing this really sharp linebetween empathy and something
else compassion.
It defines empathy as feelingwhat others feel, like we just
talked about.
That can activate your own painnetworks.
(06:40):
It leads to empathic distress.
The article puts it prettybluntly Empathy in this sense
can create two victims thatwhole I feel your pain thing.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Exactly.
And that's where compassion isso different that Max Planck
research it showed compassionlights up completely different
brain areas, networks linked tocare, positive feelings,
motivation to help.
So instead of distress intovictims, compassion gives you
this drive to find a solution.
Compassion is more like I seeyour pain and I want to help,
not I feel your pain.
(07:08):
So yeah, the article is clearone drains you, potentially
creates two victims.
The other one it creates asolution, it empowers
constructive action and thatdistinction feels really
important.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So how, how does a leader, maybe intense moment,
make that shift, go from thedraining?
I feel your pain to the moreconstructive.
I see your pain and I'm here.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Well, that ties right into another key idea that
often gets missed in leadershiptraining Interoceptive
intelligence.
It sounds fancy, but it'sbasically sensing what's going
on inside your own body.
You know your heart rate, yourbreathing, that knot in your
shoulders.
These aren't just physicalthings.
The article calls thememotional data streams.
Your vagus nerve, for example,is constantly sending messages
(07:51):
between your brain and body,affecting your heart rate, how
you engage socially.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Okay, emotional data streams, I like that, but how
tuned in are most leaders tothis internal data, and what
happens if they're just notlistening?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Honestly, most leaders aren't very tuned in at
all, and that's a problem,because if you lack that
interoceptive awareness, youcan't really tell the difference
between your own emotionalstate and what's coming from
your team.
And when you're unaware, as thearticle says, your biology
drives your behaviorunconsciously.
You might think you'reresponding to the situation out
there, but actually you'rereacting from your own internal
(08:24):
state, which you haven't evenacknowledged.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
That unconscious biology driving things.
Yeah, that sounds like aperfect setup for being
inauthentic, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
The article talks about this artificial harmony
problem, especially with Gen Zbeing quick to spot fakeness.
How does that corporateemotional theater actually harm
a team?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Oh, it's incredibly damaging.
People and yeah, especiallyyounger generations have sharp
BS detectors.
If a leader is just mirroringemotions, trying to look
empathetic, but isn't genuinelyregulated inside, it creates
this feeling the author callscorporate emotional theater that
nobody believes.
It's like that other analogy adrowning person trying to save
another drowning person.
There's this mismatch betweenwhat they're projecting and
(09:05):
what's really going oninternally.
People sense that misalignmentand it just erodes trust.
Okay, so if just beingempathetic can backfire and
being tuned into our own body'sinteroception is so vital,
what's the actual path forward?
The article really pushes forthe self-awareness solution.
But you know, for a lot of busyleaders focusing inward feels
(09:29):
well selfish Executives mightpush back right, thinking my job
is to put my people first.
But the article flips that,saying taking care of yourself
is putting people first.
How does that work?
It sounds contradictory.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
It sounds contradictory, but it makes
perfect sense biologically.
You simply cannot give what youdon't possess.
When you, as a leader, aregrounded, regulated, you're
actually able to serve your teameffectively.
You shift from being, you know,one crisis away from breaking
to being genuinely ready,willing and able.
And the neuroscience backs thisup strongly.
Research shows when a leadergets their heart rhythm into a
coherent state, balanced, steady, their whole nervous system
(10:04):
syncs up and that coherent stateit's contagious.
Teams literally unconsciouslyentrain to their leader's
regulated rhythm.
It's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Contagious coherence.
That's a powerful image, butstill that idea of prioritizing
self-awareness it can feel likea hurdle, like it's taking time
away from the team.
How do we get past thatingrained perception?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
It really requires a fundamental mindset shift.
We need to stop seeingemotional regulation as some
kind of soft skill luxury andstart seeing it as the core
leadership competency.
It as the core leadershipcompetency.
The biggest pushback the authormentions is exactly that.
I don't have time forself-reflection.
You can picture it right thatstartup founder running on his
(10:46):
fourth espresso insisting it's aluxury they just can't afford.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, I can picture that.
So what's the actual cost ofthat no time attitude?
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Well, the article delivers a pretty stark warning
there.
It says this mindset is whatmakes everything harder.
Sure that constant adrenalinemight feel productive for a
while, but burnout is almostinevitable.
The analogy used is intense.
It's like pouring kerosene onthe floor and lighting a match.
Those burning flames make theroom brighter at first, but
total destruction follows.
You're essentially sacrificinglong-term sustainability your
(11:16):
own and your team's forshort-term intensity.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yikes, okay, that's a sobering thought.
So what's a realistic firststep, Something practical to
break that cycle?
The article suggests a30-second brain reset.
It says before every teaminteraction, just take 3D
breaths plus a 30-second bodyscan.
Check your heart rate, noticetension, feel your breathing.
It sounds almost too simple.
What's actually happening inour brain during those 30
(11:41):
seconds?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
It's simple but profound neurologically those
deep breaths and the quick bodyscan.
They deliberately activate yourkaryosympathetic nervous system
, that's your body's rest anddigest or calm and connect
system.
It directly counters the fightor flight stress response.
It creates a pause, a bit ofspace, allowing your prefrontal
cortex, your thinking brain, tocome back online before you
(12:03):
engage with others.
It's about intentionallyshifting your own state first.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Okay, that makes sense, shifting your state first
.
Another really interesting toolmentioned is the emotional
granularity factor.
This idea is about gettingspecific with your emotions, not
just saying I'm stressed soinstead of recognizing, okay,
I'm actually frustrated withthese unclear expectations, or
maybe I'm feeling anxious aboutgetting these resources.
How does just naming thefeeling more precisely actually
(12:30):
help us manage it?
That's the science there.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
That specificity is huge when you can label your
feelings with more precision,more granularity.
It helps create new neuralpathways Instead of the amygdala
that quick trigger alarm belljust sounding a general alarm
like stress, danger.
Getting specific engages theprefrontal cortex more your
problem solving brain.
So for leaders, developing thisemotional specificity allows
(12:54):
you to identify, understand andthen regulate your own response
before you react or try toengage with someone else's
emotions.
It helps you move from justfeeling overwhelmed to thinking
OK, what's really going on hereand what can I do?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
This all sounds incredibly valuable, but maybe
like a whole new skill set tolearn.
Can anyone actually get betterat this, or are some people just
born more self-aware?
The article offers somethingcalled the neuroplasticity
promise.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yes, and this is so crucial.
The neuroplasticity promise isbasically the science saying
your brain can change.
It can learn new patterns, newways of responding at any age.
Research on neuroplasticity isreally clear about this.
When you consistently practiceemotional regulation techniques
like the breathing, the bodyscan, the specific labeling, you
literally rewire your brain.
Areas like the anteriorcingulate cortex involved in
(13:41):
regulation become more active.
The prefrontal cortex getsstronger connections, better
able to manage the amygdala'simpulses.
It's a real physical change butand this is key it takes
deliberate practice, not genericempathy training.
You have to actually do thework.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Okay, so deliberate practice can rewire our brains.
This leads us to a reallyfundamental point.
The article makes the contagionchoice.
Every leader is making a choice, consciously or not.
What exactly are leadersbroadcasting, and how does that
spread through a team?
Like a contagion.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
You're constantly broadcasting your nervous system
state, constantly.
It happens through tiny things,microexpressions on your face,
the tone of your voice, yourposture, your body language,
your team's mirror neurons.
They pick up on these signals,often completely unconsciously.
It's this deep biologicalresonance happening all the time
.
So when you show up regulated,calm, centered, you essentially
(14:34):
give everyone else permission toregulate too.
You create a calmer environment.
But the flip side is also true.
If you show up anxious,stressed, reactive, you
inadvertently teach your teamthat that's the appropriate
response to pressure.
You spread dysregulation.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That's huge.
Yeah, it really reframesleadership impact, doesn't it?
Which brings us to thearticle's big claim
Self-awareness is the realleadership superpower.
It even says that when leadersstop trying so hard to be
empathetic and focus instead onbecoming aware and regulated,
genuine empathy just emergesnaturally.
How did that work?
How does regulation unlockempathy?
Speaker 3 (15:07):
It works because a regulated nervous system
actually has the capacity forgenuine connection and
understanding.
Think about it A dysregulatedsystem, caught up in that
cortisol catastrophe with ahyperactive amygdala.
It's fundamentally orientedtowards survival,
self-protection.
Oriented towards survival,self-protection.
It just doesn't have thebandwidth, the internal
resources for nuancedunderstanding or deep connection
(15:28):
, because it's too busy fightingits own internal fires.
So when you cultivate thatinternal calm, that
self-awareness and regulation,you create the necessary space
within yourself for authenticempathy to arise, naturally,
without that draining absorptionwe talked about earlier.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
So it's moving beyond just personal well-being.
Emotional regulation becomes anactual organizational strategy.
Yeah, and the key questionshifts right, not just how can I
be more empathetic, but, as thearticle suggests, asking
yourself what emotional state amI creating in this room right
now?
Why is that question sotransformative?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Because it recognizes that your own nervous system is
arguably the most powerfulleadership tool you have.
Full stop when you shift yourfocus from an outward how do I
fix them or feel like them to aninward, what energy, what state
am I bringing into thisinteraction?
It changes everything.
It moves you from potentiallybeing that overwhelmed emotional
sponge or the drowninglifeguard to being a grounded,
(16:22):
clear, present leader who cangenuinely support, guide and
uplift their team.
It fosters an environment wherepeople feel safer, think
clearer and can actually thrivetogether.
That's not just betterleadership.
The article calls ittransformation, and I think
that's right.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Wow, okay, that really does reframe things.
What a deep dive into somethingmany of us thought we had
figured out.
The big takeaway today seemscrystal clear true, effective
empathy and leadership.
It's not really about justabsorbing what others feel.
It's about cultivating your owndeep self-awareness and
learning to regulate your ownemotional state first, like you
said, you can't be a calmlifeguard if you can't swim
(16:56):
yourself.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Precisely.
And that regulated state, thatinternal coherence in a leader.
It sends out these powerfulripples.
It doesn't just impact your ownfocus and decisions.
It fundamentally affects yourteam's collective state, their
ability to handle challenges,their creativity, their overall
well-being.
So, yeah, this isn't just, youknow, a nice to have personal
development thing.
It's actually a core strategicimperative for any organization
(17:20):
that wants to be resilient,innovative and, frankly, human.
So maybe the provocativethought to leave you with today
is this what's one small, trulydeliberate practice you could
bring into your week?
Just one thing to become moreaware of your own internal state
, maybe right before you walkinto that next meeting or
conversation, and just noticehow might that single conscious
(17:41):
moment of self-awareness rippleoutwards, how might it shift the
dynamic even slightly in thatvery next interaction you have
Something to think about.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
That was today's Forbes edition of AI Cafe
Conversations.
Remember this empathy withoutself-awareness is an empty
gesture.
Neuroscience shows us that whenleaders understand their own
minds, they can truly connect,inspire and transform.
Whether you are an executive,an HR leader or coach, use these
(18:13):
insights and even the right AIcoaching tools to deepen your
leadership, one honestreflection at a time.
Thank you for listening.
Share this with the leader whoneeds to hear it and join me
next week on Wednesday for ourregular, more human-centered
conversations at the cafe.
(18:34):
If you have any questions,please email me at sahar at
saharconsultingcom.
My website issaharconsultingcom.
Show me some love, give me alike, share, subscribe and show
it to someone that needs to hearit today.
Till next time.
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