October 15, 2025 • 45 mins
Most sales teams don’t have an email problem—they have a relevance problem. Spray-and-pray activity chases quota while buyers tune out anything that doesn’t speak to their world. We bring on Brandon Bornancin, founder and CEO of Seamless AI, to unpack a simple but powerful fix: combine persona, industry, and trend to deliver outreach that earns attention, and use AI to get to version one faster without removing the human touch.
We walk through a practical system you can deploy this week. Start by obsessing over personas: goals, KPIs, constraints, and dream outcomes. Add an industry lens to reflect real differences between SaaS, manufacturing, finance, and healthcare. Layer current trends—labor markets, tech stack shifts, budget cycles—to show you understand what’s changing right now. Then put AI to work: build rich profiles from job postings and public data, enrich accounts with signals like job changes and funding, and generate first-draft emails and call scripts with tight prompts that skip fluff and get to the point. Keep a human in the loop to edit for tone and truth, and use discovery that blends open-ended questions with multiple-choice options to surface priorities quickly.
Brandon shares how Seamless AI helps teams move “data to deals,” automating the invisible work—list building, enrichment, and drafting—so reps can focus on high-value conversations. We dig into why scale doesn’t mean full automation, how to avoid AI’s telltale patterns by swapping models and editing, and the skills that now matter most: curiosity, strategic thinking, and empathy. If you’re tired of 0.02% reply rates and want a playbook for high-quality meetings, this conversation lays out the path: persona-first, industry-aware, trend-informed, and AI-accelerated.
Enjoyed the conversation? Follow, share with a teammate who needs a new outbound playbook, and leave a quick review with your biggest takeaway. Your feedback helps us bring more tactical, high-signal conversations to your feed.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Why are reps still getting.02% reply rates?
Like, why is this concept ofpersonalization slash you know
relevancy at scale struggling somuch?
SPEAKER_01 (00:11):
I think it's mainly because a lot of people are just
lazy.
Like it just comes down to theydon't want to put in the work.
Um, so it's easier to set up atemplate with dynamic fields of
name, title, company, and justspray and pray a thousand people
at once.
So you've got all these reps whopossibly are college graduates
(00:32):
or a few years in, they've got aquota number.
Their director, VP of salesdevelopment is on them 24-7 to
hit two meetings a day, onemeeting a day, four meetings a
day.
So they've just got this insanepressure from management.
So they're just like, okay, Ijust have to get as many
activities going because mymanager manages me on
activities.
So I got to get my emails out.
(00:52):
Right.
I got to try to hit my 50 to 100to 200 dials.
So it's a lot of like massaction, limited personalization.
Can I wish and pray that anyonewould reply to book a meeting?
And that's that's what we'reseeing today.
The great news is there's aneasy way to fix it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
Instead of helping, you know, our reps to
understand, like, look, if youwant this person to meet with
you, you got to add value.
And if you're not adding value,and I don't see in this
conversation or this note orthis LinkedIn or whatever that
you can add value, I'm not gonnameet with you.
And so I feel like we're in thiskind of chicken and egg where
it's like, no, we're not hittingnumbers, so we're like, just do
more.
People are leaving too soon, sopeople aren't investing in them.
(01:32):
And so, what are some of thethings, right?
When you think about like whatgood enough looks like.
And I think that that's that'swhat a lot of people are looking
for, which is okay, I get it.
I want to be able to do it.
Like, what does good enough looklike?
AI powered seller.
What is going on, everyone?
Welcome to another episode ofthe AI Powered Seller.
(01:54):
Today's guest, okay, he runs acompany that has generated over
$250 million in revenue.
He's authored six best sellingbooks, including Whatever It
Takes and coming out this month,Scale Your Sales, where he
doesn't just talk about thetheory, he talks about what he
does.
He writes down his goals everymorning.
(02:15):
This guy is motivated on someother level.
And I think when I talk aboutpeople, I like to chop it up
with about AI and also sales andjust like being very real about
the future of sales.
Uh, Mr.
Brandon Bornassin is one of theguys that I go to.
And so I am super, super excitedto have the founder and CEO of
(02:37):
Seamless AI on the show.
Brandon, welcome.
Pumped for the conversationtoday.
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
Super grateful to be here today.
SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
Yeah, man.
I'm pumped to pumped to haveyou, pumped to talk to you.
I mean, you're a guy who gets achance to see, you know, what
hundreds and hundreds andhundreds of companies are doing
around this kind of concept of,you know, personalization,
really candidly, you know,modern outbound and you know,
where this thing's going.
You know, you got people likeyou know, the head of sales loft
saying, you know, right?
(03:06):
Like whacking like SDRs, likewe're gonna whack them all.
It's like that seemscounterintuitive to your
business model, but you know, soI think we're kind of in this
weird state right now when itcomes to outbound.
And I think this concept of youknow, personalization at scale,
uh, et cetera, is somethingthat, you know, I don't I think
a lot of people, I don't know ifit was a myth, but I do feel
(03:27):
like a lot of people neveractually really understood what
that was or even gave it like areal chance because their
definition was, you know, acouple custom fields.
And so, you know, to kind ofkick things off, I'm curious,
you know, when you're workingwith clients in particular,
there's a lot of tools, allright?
A lot of tools that are like,hey, we're gonna help you
personalize at scale.
Because I do believe the conceptis the only way to win today.
(03:50):
I believe, and I also believethe bar is lower than ever.
That like people are sending outsuch garbage that if you
actually do some level of like,I get you, that you can cut
through the noise.
But like, why are reps stillgetting, you know, 0.02% reply
rates?
Like, why is this concept ofpersonalization slash you know
(04:11):
relevancy at scale struggling somuch?
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
Yeah, I I would say like right off the the rip,
Jake.
I think it's mainly because alot of people are just lazy.
Like it just comes down to theydon't want to put in the work.
Um, so it's easier to set up atemplate with dynamic fields of
name, title, company, and justspray and pray a thousand people
(04:35):
at once.
So you've got all these reps whopossibly are college graduates
or a few years in, they've got aquota number, their their
director, VP of salesdevelopment is on them 24-7 to
hit two meetings a day, onemeeting a day, four meetings a
day.
So they've just got this insanepressure from management.
So they're just like, okay, Ijust have to get as many
(04:56):
activities going because mymanager manages me on
activities, so I got to get myemails out, I gotta try to hit
my 50 to 100 to 200 dials.
So it's a lot of like massaction, limited personalization.
Can I wish and pray that anyonewould reply to book a meeting?
And that's that's what we'reseeing today.
The great news is there's aneasy way to fix it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:20):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
And I think that that's a reallygood.
All right, let's caveat.
So let's chalk about it, man.
What is the easy way to fix it?
Because I think you really hitit on the head.
And when you say lazy, I thinkit's leadership, man.
If I'm just being perfectlyhonest, I think leadership, we
are looking for an easy buttonversus developing talent.
I think we're looking many timesto say, instead of helping, you
(05:41):
know, our reps to understand,like, look, if you want this
person to meet with you, you gotto add value.
And if you're not adding value,and I don't see in this
conversation or this note orthis LinkedIn or whatever that
you can add value, I'm not gonnameet with you.
And so I feel like we're in thiskind of chicken and egg where
it's like, you know, we're nothitting numbers, so we're like,
just do more.
People are leaving too soon, sopeople aren't investing in them.
(06:04):
And so what are some of thethings, right?
When you think about like whatgood enough looks like, and I
think that that's that's what alot of people are looking for,
which is okay, I get it.
I want to be able to do it.
Like, what is good enough looklike?
You know, and and obviouslywe're gonna talk a lot about AI
and how it's you know, you know,ingrained as a part of the
process, but you know, what doesgood enough look like?
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
I I would say, you know, the way that I've got 150
reps, we went from zero dollars,me founding the company to doing
over 250 million in in revenueand sales, stripe transactions,
right?
Like got the receipts, pull upstripe, you see 250 million,
literally like with my barehands from nothing.
Yeah and and this was started 10years ago.
(06:49):
And when I we did that, the waythat I drove personalization,
and I agree with you, like itcomes from the top with
management.
The way that I drovepersonalization at scale at that
time, where you just had dynamicfields was just go buy personas.
So, like at the core, my mainnumber one user were SDRs using
(07:10):
our software seamless to bookappointments.
Then you had AEs, then you hadsales ops, then you had VPs and
CROs.
So what we did was to dopersonalization at scale.
We laid out all of the personas.
What are their biggest problems,their pain points, their
challenges, what keeps them upat night?
Okay, that's their currentstate.
Dream state.
(07:31):
What is their dream outcome,their goals, their dreams, their
desires, what are their KPIs,their responsibilities, their
specialties?
What are they held to everyweek, month, quarter?
So once you have the personas,okay, you uh now you customize
your campaigns, your calls,emails, social touches, you
customize the persona, and nowyou're already going from spray
(07:52):
and prey to anyone to veryspecific to persona.
That works really well.
And then what we did to do evenmore scale is we went from
personas to industry personas.
So now I'm talking to the SDRwho's in the trenches in San
Francisco, in SaaS, trying toscale from 50 million to 100
(08:14):
million in ARR.
Build a massive list of 10,000AEs who are in B2B SaaS in San
Francisco, trying to go from 50to 100 million in ARR.
And now all my messaging feelslike holy shit, this guy knows
what keeps me up at night, holdsme back, problems, pain points.
They've got my dream outcome.
(08:35):
They're telling me how theycould help me go from current
state, pains, problems to dreamoutcome, dream state, and
they've got the solution.
But in reality, like I didn'twrite that custom for one to
one.
I wrote that for one to many,but when you match the personas
with different filters, I alwaysthink like building a search
engine, I always think in termsof search filters, like yeah,
(08:56):
okay, I'm gonna combine thetitles with an industry.
Now I can go hyper-personalizedbecause the pain points of a VPS
sales in tech is different thanthe VPS sales in finance,
manufacturing, healthcare, youknow, consumer goods, retail.
They're all different.
And when you combine the two,that is like step one person,
(09:19):
persona in industry, and thenthere's AI for number three,
which takes it the next stepfurther.
SPEAKER_02 (09:25):
Yeah, let's and we'll get into that.
That's it.
So it's so hard to think exactlywhat we talk about, right?
And I think this is where we'llget into AI, which is the
person, right?
Like I think this is the easiestthing.
Guys, your products, if anybodylistening, your product solves
for like three to five thingsmaximum.
Maximum.
And if your sales team doesn'tknow that what that persona, the
(09:46):
three things that they like havechallenges with, that's step
one.
And you you literally hit on thehead.
We even call it, we take it astep further, we call it
sub-industry, Brandon, where wesay, look, in today's day and
age, and again, AI is helpful,it says it's not manufacturing,
it's not industrialmanufacturing, it's heavy
equipment machine manufacturing.
And it's easier than ever to belike, Do you know?
Well, not you know, because yousee a lot of these emails,
(10:07):
right?
It's like, I work with other VPsof operations that do this.
It's like, no, I know that a VPof operations in industrial
manufacturing has thesechallenges, and someone in
consumer package goodsmanufacturing has these
challenges.
And, you know, then that's wherewe we talk a lot then about AI,
which says, hey, what are theheadwinds?
What are the trends that theperson in the industry called
the triangle, kind of the personin the industry and the trends
(10:28):
they're facing, and you know,how we solve that?
And I feel like that to me isthe big unlock.
I uh in my career, uh, my firstjob outside of sports was with a
company called Career Builder.
And I ended up running thePacific North Northwest
Territory.
We had I had 10 plus people onmy team, and so we were
geo-based.
And so, Brandon, I had to learnall these industries.
(10:49):
We had a binder.
SPEAKER_01 (10:50):
I can't, we had a binder.
This it's so funny.
My uh my head of customersuccess was the CRO at Career
Builder.
So I they follow, I totally getit.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
It's a CB.
Yeah.
Small world.
But so that's it, man.
SPEAKER_02 (11:04):
Study all this stuff, and I had to study the
industry, man, and I made a lotof mistakes and be like, hey,
look, I get you, I know whatyou're happening.
And then I would, I was, youknow, I was 25, 26.
Tell me, like, what does a CNCmachinist do?
Like, I didn't know, you know,and I feel like that to me is
still because what you'retalking about, Kevin Dorsey
calls it relevancy versuscustomization.
(11:25):
Well, we're what we're talkingabout, and I agree it's
relevant.
It's not, you're right, it's nota hundred percent personalized,
but you are showing such a deeplevel of understanding.
And again, I only solve forthree things, and those three
things slightly warp based ontrends that the person in the
industry is solving for.
And and I and I feel like thatis what so many people are
(11:46):
missing.
That, and then the other thing,and because I want you, I want
to hear your kind of take on AI,um, is because I feel like this
bar is so low, yeah, people arejust like, how can I templatize
this to just like get as manyout as possible?
Whereas, you know, I had abinder and we had to like figure
it out.
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
So so how started it, it was like no one taught
me, and this is the gap inmanagement.
When I was selling for IBM andGoogle, I had to like do my own
research on personas and whothey were and what they cared
about.
Like, step one, massive balldrop.
Managers and directors and VPsand leaders, revenue officers,
should be having all of theirpeople obsessed with the
(12:28):
personas.
Every persona should be laidout.
I used to go to nd.com,monster.com, and I would read uh
job postings to learn about mypersona.
Like what were their KPIs?
What'd they care about?
What would they try to do?
And what's cool is if you'reprospecting into any account,
studying the job postings ofthat department will teach you a
(12:49):
lot about that account.
What are their goals?
What are their KPIs?
What do they need to do?
How do they need to do it?
What tools are they using?
You could skip through 70% ofyour sales discovery on a pitch
because you just go through thejob postings of that department
on the site, get all that data.
But that's how I used to do itlike 15 years ago.
SPEAKER_02 (13:07):
We have AI.
We actually had to like learnthis shit.
Like we have to actually learnthat, like, oh wait, it's this,
it's not that, it's this, this,this, this.
Like, we had to figure out howto triangulate it between, like,
okay, this is what they do,these are the challenges, like,
here's what we solve for.
And you'll love this.
One thing I did um, a guy in myNBA program, Jim, uh, he was a
(13:28):
VP of operations at Bekessen.
And go back to the personas, Igot Jim to give my whole sales
team a tour of the facility.
We went in and it was like, Jim,you explain to them what a VP of
operations does.
Because I knew, like, I love howyou said that, obsess over the
persona.
It's that dumb simple.
And like, that's where with myteams, I got I knew if they
(13:48):
obsessed over the persona,they'd figure the rest out.
You know, they'd figure out howto generate meetings, how to
close more deals.
SPEAKER_01 (13:53):
You already know everything about them.
And I think like this the steptwo is like managers, directors,
leaders.
Now I've got a 30 to 50 pagedocument, one page per persona
that goes down top to bottom,like chief revenue officer, VP
of sales, VP of salesdevelopment, director of sales
ops, rev ops, director of salesdevelopment, like every role
(14:15):
I've got laid out AEs, BDRs,BDMs, customer success, customer
success director, VP of customersuccess marketing.
I've got all these differentpersonas for every department.
And anyone that comes in andlike, for example, I just hired
a new social producer, Trinity.
First thing that I did whenTrinity came on board, you know,
she was like ready to sprint andcreate content.
(14:36):
I'm like, for the first likemonth, I don't want you to write
anything.
I want you to study and obsessover the personas, know who
we're writing to, talking to,like who we're trying to help
and create their dream outcomesfor.
And then once you learn thepersonas, it was like, okay,
then audit the current contentwe've got, what's performing
well, what's not.
And now we can create newcontent because at the core of
(14:58):
anything we do, it's likepersonas, audit, strategy,
execution plan, and laying outthose personas for your reps to
study.
And I would give them names.
So people like Jim, and who'sthe VP of sales, and Sarah,
who's the director of sales.
Like, I would give them names,study them, learn them.
Um, this is basic stuff.
And now you can use AI, like askAI, give me the best persona of
(15:23):
this person in this role, andyou know, use any of the LLMs,
Chat GPT, Grok, Gemini, Claude,Anthropic, Perplexity.
It's gonna give you a reallynice write-up, and then you just
templatize that, build it intoyour go-to-market playbooks.
SPEAKER_02 (15:39):
Yeah, okay, this is good.
So this is a good transition.
Let's talk about this, and thenI want to get into let's call it
like data and you know how wethink about you know pattern
disruption, a few other thingstoo.
But let's talk about kind of theAI playbook for this concept of
personalization or relevancy orwhatever we want to call it.
Uh, you know, the first thingthat you talked about in let's
(16:01):
talk about this is the personasthemselves.
So if I'm a leader out there, oreven better, a rep, and I say,
hey, man, this makes a lot ofsense to me.
I need to do better about this.
What is one or two things a repshould do now that we have AI in
order to get up to speed onthese personas, in order to
(16:22):
really make sure that I'm ableto communicate with them?
Because again, think if I'm 25,26.
I was actually doing a sessiontoday with one of our clients
today.
And I had a woman, she wasprobably, or she's early in her
career, I'm gonna guess 26, 27.
And she was like, Hey, like, whoam I to like talk to these
people like a business expert?
(16:42):
She's a we work with uh theAtlanta Hawks here, NBA.
Shout out to the Hawks.
And, you know, she's like, Whoam I to be this expert?
Like, and so I think a lot ofpeople struggle with that part,
Brandon.
It's like, okay, I know a CEO isthis, but who am I to know that
this challenge keeps them up atnight?
And so how could or how shouldreps be thinking about using AI
to get deeper in the persona andthen applying that to you know
(17:04):
generating more meetings in thefirst place?
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
Yeah, like what we coach, so so we've got over a a
million sales team, salespeopleusing our software.
And what we teach them, which islike similar to what you teach
them, Jake, is how to use AI toresearch the persona, the
company, the contacts, and theneverything about them.
So like I've got our softwareand different LLMs researching
(17:30):
all of the data.
Number one, who's the personaand the full persona profiles
that goes into the CRM.
Number two, the ICP.
Like for me, we sell to salesteams and go-to-market teams.
So who that company and thatteam sells to is really well.
So like when someone signs upfor seamless, I automatically
know their personas.
(17:51):
I know every search filter thatthey sell to, titles, employee
sizes, funding, webtechnologies.
Like, for example, Pandadoc is aproposal contract management
software.
Right when Pandadoc signs up fora license to Seamless, as a free
user, I know all of the titles,top 20 titles.
It's CRO, VPS sales, sales ops,legal, any, you know, anyone
(18:12):
that touches contracts, proposalmanagement.
I know that if their topintegrated CRM is Salesforce and
HubSpot.
So the best web technology listto sell to for them is to help
them connect with Salesforce andHubSpot customers.
I know they only go after reallyideally 50 to 100 employee sizes
up to a thousand.
(18:33):
I know that revenue, they reallywant them to be at 25 million to
200 million.
This is all using AI and data,like from seamless to automate
all of it.
Then it all gets into my CRM.
So I know I have 100 data pointsabout the company, 100 data
points about the contact, 50data points about their ICP and
who they sell to.
So I know who they're trying togo after, what everything they
(18:56):
know about the competitor orsorry, the company, the
competitors, the landscape, theSWOT analysis, and then them
personally, like contactprofessionally and personally.
What do they care about?
What do we found on social?
You name it.
Do they love watching theAtlanta Hawks play?
Uh, and then you pull that alltogether so that when you're in
discovery, like you already knoweverything about the contact,
(19:19):
the company, and what they'retrying to accomplish.
And like you are the expertbecause you have the data, and
then it's just asking discovery.
I like asking both open-endedquestions and also close
multiple choice questions, like,you know, close multiple choice
as like, hey, like what's yourbiggest goal this next quarter?
(19:40):
Is it generating leads, bookingappointments, closing more
sales, increasing close rate,increasing AOV, driving
expansion revenue?
So, like sometimes I'll A B testhaving all this data, open-ended
questions, like tell me aboutyour biggest challenges and
goals that's holding you backfrom you told me you want to go
from one million to fivemillion.
(20:00):
What are the biggest thingsholding you back from achieving
that?
I'll do both open-ended andclosed-ended questions with
multiple choice and kind of showit on the screen.
And uh, both of those strategieskind of allow you to quickly
ramp the convo and the pitch,use all that AI, and then figure
out where's the gap.
Current state, dream outcome,how do we bridge the gap from
(20:22):
getting B?
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
Yeah, point A to point B.
SPEAKER_02 (20:24):
Exactly right.
And I think then the other partabout AI to add to that, what it
also does is not only do I havefirst party data, or even
sometimes this intent or thirdparty data, I have industry
friend data.
And I feel like this to me, whenwe work with a lot of our
clients around relevancy atscale or personalization
relevancy at scale, it's I cantalk to a business leader and I
(20:46):
can say, look, it's what itlooks like to me, the labor
market over the next 12 monthsin southern Florida, here are
the big trends.
How are you thinking about that,Tom?
Like that ability, and then itthe ability to use that in
outreach too, right?
Obviously, an outbound to say,look, I know if you sell to
we've got a client in the um,you know, it's like payment
payment early space with a lotof like blue-collar companies.
(21:08):
And it's not like, hey, I workwith other McDonald's franchise.
And it's like, no, I know as afranchisee in Southern Florida,
here are the top three trends inthe labor market over the next
six months.
And I know that this is what'sgonna happen.
And that to me is like thetrends for me when it comes to
AI, brand, and are some of myfavorite, like just like it adds
(21:29):
that extra layer of like, whoa,this this person is a true
because I really believe this inthe future, no one's gonna want
to talk to sales rep unless theycan add incremental value.
If I can't see from your emailor from your note that this is
someone who knows stuff, youknow, not just knows their own
product.
Because guess what?
I can find out about yourproduct with ChatGPT.
I can say, tell me all abouttheir products, what do they do,
(21:50):
compare them to what I'm doingnow, build a matrix, give me one
wildcard player to competeagainst them.
I can I probably know more aboutyour products than you do when I
come inbound.
But I feel like the ability tobe that industry advisor, and
and I think when it comes tooutbound in particular, I just
feel like it's going to be sucha critical, you know, component
of this.
So we've talked about um, andjust to kind of keep keep us
(22:12):
going here, we've talked aboutthe persona piece.
We're talking about, you know,how to again engage during the
call, and I think that's areally good call out, too,
because man, if you're justasking the same questions,
there's nothing that's tailored,they're not smart, and you know,
you're not going the next layerdeep.
Why would anybody talk to you?
SPEAKER_01 (22:31):
You got to act like a business consultant there.
You gotta act like uh like whenI was in IBM Interactive as a
23-year-old pitching CMOs of theFortune 500.
If I just came in there and juststarted asking them, like, you
know, what do you want to do inmarketing?
What are your marketing goals?
What are your marketingstrategies?
You know, they'd look at me likeI'm an idiot.
I I had to come in there andknow everything about what
they're doing in digitalmarketing, what they're doing in
(22:53):
acquisition marketing, how can Ishare strategies and audit and
execution?
I had to come audit strategy,execution plan, ROI plan, and
then roadmap on how to achievethe ROI by filling the gap of
the current state versus thedream outcome and the
recommendations that we tiedback to our services.
You got to be that businessconsultant, and AI can help you
(23:16):
become a quick, amazing, fastbusiness consultant.
And we didn't even talk aboutthe third layer, the third layer
of using AI and personalizationat scale.
So, like I love this part.
You you could actually be anidiot and not know how to do the
personas and not know how to dothe personas in industry
content, and now you can use AIprompting with Seamless Connect
(23:39):
or Workflow Automation Tool orother tools, bake it into just
GPT or Perplexity or whateveryou like, Claude in Gemini,
where you could just write theprompt email or call script,
like, you know, hey, uh, youknow, you are a top email
copywriting expert who is taskedwith writing this email to
(24:02):
insert dynamic field title atcompany.
Don't use any pleasantries like,hi, how are you doing?
You know, I hope you're you'redoing well.
I hope you're having a greatday.
Just go straight into like shareone of the top problems that
this contact is having at thiscompany, offer a solution to
(24:24):
help, and then a call to action.
Like, and and the AI LLMs couldreally hyperpersonalize the
scripts for your emails, yourcall scripts, everything you got
going on.
So it is pretty damn good.
I like to keep the AI emails tothree to five sentences spaced
for each.
And then now you can fly throughsuper hyperpersonalization at
(24:47):
scale by contact using the LLMto customize each email, to
customize each call script.
And then you're making thecalls, you're making the emails,
everything is custom to thecontacts and the company, their
goals, their problems.
And that's just all about promptengineering.
You have to get really good atprompt engineering.
SPEAKER_02 (25:10):
All right.
This is big, great point, andI'm super excited.
If you have not signed up, weare launching the first ever
sales AI certification program.
It starts October 21st.
This is not theory.
This isn't some dumb Zoomwebinar.
This is role-based training uhthat is going to save you five
to ten hours a week.
Okay.
(25:30):
There are six weeks, one hour,there's a certification at the
end, and I promise you, yourmoney back guarantee that if you
sign up and at the end of thecourse, you do not go, this
changed the way I sell or theway that I lead people.
I will give you your money back,right?
We're going to teach you how tobuild custom agents, custom
workflows, and you are going tobe AI empowered like none other.
(25:53):
So head to scale.com.
We've got a link in the shownotes to reserve your spot
before they fill up.
Yeah.
For a lot of people listening,what I like about what you're
saying, and I do believe this isthis one thing I believe is the
culprit for quite a bit of this,which is scale doesn't mean
(26:13):
everything's automated.
And I feel like what's happenedis we have started to, and
people who, you know, follow mycontent know I say this a lot,
but we have confused scalableand automated.
And everything that Brandon istalking about is scalable, like
mad scalable, like extremelyscalable.
SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:35):
And and the human should be in the loop, my
friends.
What we're just talking about isgetting to V1 faster.
We're getting into V1 of thoseinsights that are going to
resonate with somebody faster.
And then the human turns on thebrain and says, hey, okay, this
makes sense here.
I'm going to tweak this here.
Because my friends, if you'rejust copying and pasting AI or
(26:55):
you're just sending AI-basedemails, that is the sh most
surefire way to be unemployed inthe next two years.
100%.
Because what do I need?
If AI can look at the website,look at the person, and do this
and write the email and hit copyand paste and send, you will be
unemployed.
Because the then the guy, youknow, we haven't seen any
outbound agents like AI outboundwork at scale, like with you
(27:16):
know, insert like early stagestartup burning through their
TAM.
You know, can it help you togenerate millions of dollars, a
few million dollars, maybe?
Um, but I do feel like this iswhat everybody needs to start to
realize is that we need to startto build scalable
personalization and relevancy.
And AI is the backbone to getthe research and the insights,
(27:36):
like you talked about, Brand.
It's like boom, boom, boom.
And then I'll get another kindof piece that I'll add is what
we'll tell with reps and some ofour clients is we'll say, okay,
because we'll get this question.
Well, are they actually learninganything?
Are they learning it?
You know, et cetera.
And we'll say, well, okay, I getthat.
That makes sense.
Then what you can have them doat the end of the prompt is you
say, hey, I don't know anythingabout HVAC.
(27:57):
Create a 10 question trivia gamewith multiple choice questions
and and quiz me on HVAC.
And then guess now I'm learning.
So not only am I getting ahead,I'm putting together better
messaging, now I'm learning theindustry.
And so I really believe rightnow that this is the only way to
win.
Like I really do not feel like,you know, all the people are
saying outbound are dead if yougo look at their emails to the
(28:18):
people that are not doing whatwe're talking about.
SPEAKER_01 (28:20):
And I think everyone's like everyone's
trying to sell you something,right?
So the sales tech will tell youmarketing's dead, the marketing
people will tell you sales techis dead, inbound's dead,
outbound's dead, all boundsdead.
Uh, you know, it's all a bunchof bullshit, essentially, where
(28:41):
it all works if you work.
You got to put in the work.
And if you put in the work inoutbound, it will work.
If you put in the work in ads,marketing will work.
So yeah, if it's not working,there is something that you
don't know, KNOW, that you needto figure out, whether it's with
AI, personas, studying themarket, the industry trends.
I totally agree with you.
(29:01):
Like the latest industry trends,right now, everyone's trying to
learn and master AI to scale andautomate and grow.
Like, how can your productleverage that to connect with
your personas to help themachieve their dream outcomes, to
cut the waste?
Like, it's interesting becausewe've automated our support.
So we went from like 25 supportpeople down to three.
(29:23):
I've got automated chat, email,phone support, uh 24-7 at a 90,
87% to 92% resolution rate.
And like, we're taking the sametech that we use to automate
support, and we're then applyingit to like, how can I help all
my employees at my company haveauto email drafts and auto like
(29:47):
everything?
Like I think that you could havehyper personalization, but then
you also need the human valueadd element, like you had
mentioned, where like I'm tryingto help our people become much
faster and Better and smarter sothat they can focus on higher
ticket problems versus lowdollar problems.
And I think you get paid themost when you solve really big
(30:09):
problems for people versussmall, tiny problems.
And we try to use AI to help allof our employees help our
customers with the big ticketstuff.
SPEAKER_02 (30:18):
You have to.
I mean, I think I think andwe're all ahead there.
The frontline CS, inbound leadmanagement is another one.
Who like the inbound SDR to meis one of the craziest
positions?
It's like, I'm interested, theseare the things, and you're
qualifying me?
Like what what like what whatplanet are we on that you're you
(30:39):
know, again, and that's where Ithink AI is like I can get
answers, etc.
Let me ask you this on yourproduct side.
So, you know, how are you, whenit comes to seamless, how are
you for your customers, youknow, balancing this concept of
automation, human insight, youknow, human insight and
generating outcomes, you know,because at the end of the day,
(30:59):
that's the goal.
And obviously you guys are, youknow, can you know we've been
kind of AI forward for a longtime.
But you know, as you think aboutwhat the product is doing now,
how are you helping clients tobalance that, you know, like AI
versus human and how it all fitstogether?
SPEAKER_01 (31:15):
Yeah, like our our big mission is to help customers
automate sales from data todeals, like from data to sign
contracts.
How can we automate as much ofthat as possible so that they
could focus on the selling andthe pitching and the closing
versus the non-selling work?
So, you know, at first it waslike 10 years ago, built a
(31:37):
search engine to find all thecontext and companies in the
world, use AI to research,validate, and verify their
emails and their cell phonesusing a 10-step verification
engine.
That's why like Sergey Brandonand his wife from Google
invested, Guy Kawasaki, Amazon,all these done at Bradstreet,
all these big companies, um,they invested because 10 years
ago we were trying to be all inon AI, like at the start, um,
(31:59):
because our competitors hadthese like stale outdated
databases.
So once we solved the data, itwas like, okay, and you've got
all the signals.
Like, I think it went fromfinding your TAM to then
signal-based TAM, like how canwe have funding and tech and uh
news and job changes and allthis stuff automated?
They mentioned you on socialmedia, they mentioned you in the
news, they mentioned you allover.
(32:20):
Competitor wrote a bad, likesomeone wrote a bad review about
your competitor.
You got all these signals, sothen like staying on top of your
TAM, sitting on top of signals,and now we're trying to automate
or helping our customersautomate, you know, everything
from data to deal.
So that means like workflow,creating the campaign.
So like using AI to auto-createthe multi-step, let's just call
(32:44):
it a 12-step campaign, fouremails, four calls, two LinkedIn
messages, and two direct mailpieces.
Okay, that's 12 steps over 12days, and then filling in the
content for those, but lettingthe rep or the user customize it
and edit it.
And then we just build all theseagents and automations where,
(33:07):
like, okay, Jake changes a job.
Our platform automaticallytracks that.
We automatically find the email,the cell phone, the information
from him.
We add him to a new job changecampaign that's got AI prompts
in it.
Those have been edited, thatgets sent out automatically.
It emails him.
Jake responds, I'm interested.
(33:28):
We've got an email draftpre-populated for you.
So, like then ideally,automating even the email reply
back and forth for outbound.
You know, there's TCPA and a lotof phone regulations where you
can't automate outbound AIcalling.
Um, but we do have AI voice andAI emailing that's uh, you know,
(33:53):
possibly 90% better than a lotof reps.
SPEAKER_02 (33:55):
Like send in the template anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Yeah, we don't let go of a lot of like we had to
let go of some people who werejust like sending like worse
messages than like what our AIcould come up with because they
weren't putting in the work, youknow, working remote, it's easy
to be lazy, it's easy to notwant to put in the work and
really deliver an amazingmessage to the user or the
customer.
But if you combine hard work asa human tied with the messaging
(34:23):
of like AI and the research ofAI and the automation, you can
make magic happen.
Like, this is the best time tobe in sales because you could go
from the average making 100k.
If you use these tools in techand you really give a damn and
you put in the hours, you can gofrom 100k to 500k to a million
very fast.
Like it took me working 18 hoursa day days a week to become a
(34:47):
millionaire in sales as a normalsalesperson 15 years ago, and I
didn't have AI.
Like nowadays, you could be akid out of college that's
working hard, knows a persona,uses AI, and goes from you know
a 50k base to like 250, 500 amillion fast.
SPEAKER_02 (35:05):
Yeah.
What I love is just this conceptof how these two are so
intertwined.
What you haven't heard ustalking about is trying to
automate 100% of things.
You know, what's seamless, youknow, obviously what you're
doing is it's like the data, theresearch, the behind the scenes.
And this is where, again, andI'll have to turn your brain on.
You have to see all the studies.
(35:25):
It says, look, the skills we'regonna have are creativity,
strategic thinking, curiosity.
This is it.
This is what we got.
Like, this is the knowledge.
SPEAKER_01 (35:36):
Three, I agree.
Like strategic thinking numberone, you gotta be able to think
and and solve problems and thinkoutside of the box.
And I think curiosity, likeprobably curiosity would
actually trump the strategicthinking.
Because if you're just curiouson how to help them improve and
asking smart questions to helpthem improve, like you're you're
(35:56):
there.
You're you're right there.
Like then you can figure outwhere they at today, what's
their dream outcome?
You ask curious questions, likeyou'll learn what's holding them
back, new ideas, new strategiesto help them get there.
And I think if you apply thosethings, that's what's going to
take it to be ultra successful.
And you could do anythingapplying, you know, the
strategic thinking, thecuriosity, the empathy, and care
(36:18):
to your customers.
You do those things with AI, youknow, you're you become
superhuman, and that's what it'sabout.
It's serving more people.
Like we all have these amazinggifts, we all have these amazing
talents.
How can we serve as many peopleas humanly possible so that they
can benefit from what you've gotto help them?
Hey, do those things, you'll beable to crack the code.
SPEAKER_02 (36:40):
You mentioned, yeah, you mentioned the word
consultant.
Like that's always, you know,and I don't know.
I mean, I, you know, look, Iwent to Missouri State
University, right?
So I didn't go to a consultingschool university, but um, you
know, I I always took this kindof consultative approach, and
then people put labels on all ofit of what it means.
And that that to me is still theuniversal truth is your ability
to help ask questions that helppeople uncover the answers for
(37:04):
themselves.
I think it's what made me a goodleader at times as well, too.
Where, you know, I'm not theadvice, you know, giving you all
the advice.
I'm pulling, I'm letting yourealize by asking the right
questions, you know, pulling itout and saying, like, look,
wherever your path is, amazing.
Let's get you on that path.
SPEAKER_00 (37:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:18):
And not feeling so desperate to say, hey, you have
to buy from me, as opposed tolike, look, you came to me, I'm
an expert, let me help guide youwhere this might go.
If it's with us, fantastic.
We'd love to work with you.
If not, here's another path,too.
And and that that's universal.
I don't feel like that's goingto be in a doctor.
SPEAKER_01 (37:37):
If you're sick and you go to the doctor's office,
the doctor isn't going to justlike prescribe medicine to you
without doing a full audit and afull QA.
And like, you got to act like adoctor.
Like, okay, I'm here to cure youfrom your problems to help you
achieve your dream outcome ofbeing healthy, being successful,
(37:58):
being rich, whatever it is.
So if you approach sales like adoctor, okay, I'm gonna ask you
a bunch of questions, I'm gonnasee where you're all messed up,
and then I'm gonna fix you.
SPEAKER_02 (38:07):
Like, you'll be golden.
That's always I mean, it's sofunny.
That's such a good analogy.
That's what I tell is again,speaking of consultants.
Um, I tell our consultants allthe time, guys, our job is not
to recommend, our job is toprescribe.
Nobody is coming to you saying,give me options.
They're coming to you becauseyou're the expert.
You need to prescribe thesolution.
(38:29):
Right now, you know, and chancesare it's you know you're not
gonna prescribe anything that'slike crazy, but I do feel like
that is is a part of this thatand even it when it comes to
outbound, you need to say, look,I know that enough about you and
your persona, etc.
This is probably what you'refacing, and I think I can help
you to solve that and you knowlet's set up time so we can
(38:49):
prescribe the right solution.
But I you know directionally,this is probably where we're
going, right?
SPEAKER_01 (38:56):
Like as a part of the I like the audit, basically
audit the the diagnosis and thenthe prescription.
I think going in that order, umyou can find out anything to
help to really help anyone forsure.
SPEAKER_02 (39:11):
You have to.
Uh all right, man.
Like as always, it's alwayslike, oh man, all right, we're
almost at time.
Um where are we headed, man?
When you think about let's talkabout you know 2026 is around
the corner.
SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
It's big.
It's big.
Super artificial intelligence,like SGI, super artificial
intelligence, AGI is is here,artificial general intelligence.
It's coming, it's here, it willbe here faster than any of us
know.
You can use AI for for reallyanything, like automating all of
your data needs, automating yourresearch needs, automating your
(39:47):
writing needs.
Um a lot of people can tell ifit's written by AI.
It's like so.
SPEAKER_02 (39:54):
Yeah, it goes it goes bold, point, point, point,
line, next one, upper signs, orwhat are those called?
SPEAKER_00 (40:01):
Those lines and that.
SPEAKER_02 (40:03):
Well, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know what the Idon't what I don't know what the
long dash lines are, but we'retalking about yeah, the long
lines.
SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
I don't know what the dashes are everywhere.
SPEAKER_02 (40:09):
I don't know what the long line is called.
It's like a page break orsomething.
SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
I don't know but you know, that like people could
tell AI wrote it, and you know,this is why it'd be good to like
swap LLMs or use multiple LLMsso that you're just testing and
changing, and like I would neverjust take an answer from an LLM
or from AI and just blast it outto people.
I would edit it, I wouldcustomize it.
(40:34):
Turn the brain on the execution,use use human input, customize
it.
It's a good hot start.
SPEAKER_02 (40:41):
Like, you know, you to V1, Brandon.
That's exactly it.
SPEAKER_01 (40:45):
Andrew Chen from uh like he started a company that
sold to Uber, then he was thehead of growth at Uber, then he
went on to uh I think AndersonHorowitz is a VC partner.
Like he wrote a book called TheCold Start Problem.
And like why SaaS companies failis because they all have these
cold starts.
Like you sign up and then younever achieve the first aha
moment or success.
(41:06):
And we see that a lot, like samewith go to market.
Salespeople will get a new job,but they can't figure out how to
build the list, how to write theemails, how to do the calls, how
to do the pitch, how to do thesales discovery.
I think great sales leadershipsolves that.
And I think great training onusing AI solves that.
And you combine those things,like you can do anything, but
(41:30):
I'd go all in on leveraging AIto make your team faster.
You're gonna see organizationswith lay less way less employees
because employees becomesuperhuman, you can do way more
with less people.
Every company's doing it.
Oh, and by the way, I call BS.
You want to know what I call BSon Jake?
SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
Yes, I'd love to.
SPEAKER_01 (41:51):
Like, no one knows this.
This is something that no one'sshared yet.
In the news, we see that MarkBenioff is saying, I whacked
4,000 people.
You remember you like this hadthis now?
My theory, and I'm gonna put bigmoney on this, is that that is
(42:12):
not true, and he's actuallyusing the press to sell his AI
agents.
SPEAKER_02 (42:18):
To sell, yeah, agents more.
SPEAKER_01 (42:20):
I I don't even think he whacked 4,000 people.
I've literally I literally thinkhe called the press.
Hey, we no one calls the pressand says I have to let go of a
million people.
Yeah, exactly.
Like you didn't call the pressto let go of a million people,
you didn't let go of 4,000,5,000, 10,000 people.
You literally just wanted tocreate a marketing hack.
Right.
People think that you wereletting go of 10,000 people due
(42:44):
to AI.
Genius marketing strategy, but Icall complete and utter being
six.
SPEAKER_02 (42:48):
I Benny Al.
Yeah, I don't disagree at all.
I think that he's he's the kingof being able to do that.
SPEAKER_01 (42:53):
And hey, look at the 10K of at the end of this year
employee size compared to theend of last year, and let's see
if the 10K employees.
SPEAKER_02 (43:02):
June Forrest really just all of a sudden replaced
everybody, which is I seriouslydoubt.
Uh and I think look, as we kindof go forward, you're hearing it
the same from 85 angles.
It's the people that know how toleverage it, that understand the
art of possible that are goingto win.
Um and Brandon, you know, talkabout where people can learn
(43:22):
more about, you know, kind ofyour approach.
Um, obviously, you know, you'vewritten a few books as well,
too.
Um, or even, you know, even tryseamless AI.
Where's the best places to kindof come, check out what you're
doing, check out what thecompany's doing?
Because I think everybody needsto understand, you know, solving
the data layer is such an easy,kind of dumb no-brainer that
it's just like it's just getmove on.
(43:44):
Like go, like, do this, so thenyou can move on to the value add
stuff.
So where's a good place to findyou and also you know get
started with seamless?
SPEAKER_01 (43:52):
Yeah, definitely.
Thanks for asking, Jake.
We so we've I would go toseamless.ai, we've got free
software for you, our salesleads AI platform, our sales
automation platform right there.
I've got free courses atSeamless AI, I've got free books
at Seamless AI, audiobooks,courses, you name it.
So I would just recommend go toSeamless AI, sign up for free.
You know, we're gonna help youautomate going from data to
(44:14):
deals insanely fast.
Um, we've got a free Connectproduct that will let you create
AI campaigns for emailing,calling, social selling.
We've got a free data product.
Our goal is to provide a lot offree products that make more
money than the paid products,and then eventually you become a
paid customer because of all thevalue that was created.
(44:35):
Uh, and also I've got a new bookcalled Scale Your Sales, how we
went from$0 to$100 million insales and turned prospects into
high, high prep payingcustomers.
Uh, wrote that to basicallydocument what were all the
strategies that we went that weused to go from zero to$250
million in sales in a few years.
So we're gonna be releasing thatbook here on Amazon later this
(44:56):
month.
You can get it, and then we'llhave the free courses and
workshop stuff there.
SPEAKER_02 (45:02):
Always adding value, man.
That's why I love it, dude.
It's been, I'm so glad we caughtup.
It's been it's been too long,actually.
Yeah, it has been a little bit,but you know, I really feel like
you're one of the guys that Ican talk to, and it's like,
okay, but what about this?
And then this and then this andthis.
It's like, okay, good.
Like we can just kind of keepgoing.
So I'm sure the listeners got aton out of this.
Uh, and I know I did as well,too.
(45:23):
It's always good whenever likeI'm filling up like notes over
here, like I'm like writing downthings.
I'm like, okay, yeah, that'sgood.
So man, I really appreciate it,Brandon.
Thanks for joining so much.
Uh, amazing value, supertactical, which is what I love.
SPEAKER_01 (45:36):
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02 (45:38):
All right, amazing.
All right, everybody.
We will see you next Wednesdayon the AI Powered Cellar.
Why are reps still getting.02% reply rates?
Like, why is this concept ofpersonalization slash you know
relevancy at scale struggling somuch?
SPEAKER_01 (00:11):
I think it's mainly because a lot of people are just
lazy.
Like it just comes down to theydon't want to put in the work.
Um, so it's easier to set up atemplate with dynamic fields of
name, title, company, and justspray and pray a thousand people
at once.
So you've got all these reps whopossibly are college graduates
(00:32):
or a few years in, they've got aquota number.
Their director, VP of salesdevelopment is on them 24-7 to
hit two meetings a day, onemeeting a day, four meetings a
day.
So they've just got this insanepressure from management.
So they're just like, okay, Ijust have to get as many
activities going because mymanager manages me on
activities.
So I got to get my emails out.
(00:52):
Right.
I got to try to hit my 50 to 100to 200 dials.
So it's a lot of like massaction, limited personalization.
Can I wish and pray that anyonewould reply to book a meeting?
And that's that's what we'reseeing today.
The great news is there's aneasy way to fix it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
Instead of helping, you know, our reps to
understand, like, look, if youwant this person to meet with
you, you got to add value.
And if you're not adding value,and I don't see in this
conversation or this note orthis LinkedIn or whatever that
you can add value, I'm not gonnameet with you.
And so I feel like we're in thiskind of chicken and egg where
it's like, no, we're not hittingnumbers, so we're like, just do
more.
People are leaving too soon, sopeople aren't investing in them.
(01:32):
And so, what are some of thethings, right?
When you think about like whatgood enough looks like.
And I think that that's that'swhat a lot of people are looking
for, which is okay, I get it.
I want to be able to do it.
Like, what does good enough looklike?
AI powered seller.
What is going on, everyone?
Welcome to another episode ofthe AI Powered Seller.
(01:54):
Today's guest, okay, he runs acompany that has generated over
$250 million in revenue.
He's authored six best sellingbooks, including Whatever It
Takes and coming out this month,Scale Your Sales, where he
doesn't just talk about thetheory, he talks about what he
does.
He writes down his goals everymorning.
(02:15):
This guy is motivated on someother level.
And I think when I talk aboutpeople, I like to chop it up
with about AI and also sales andjust like being very real about
the future of sales.
Uh, Mr.
Brandon Bornassin is one of theguys that I go to.
And so I am super, super excitedto have the founder and CEO of
(02:37):
Seamless AI on the show.
Brandon, welcome.
Pumped for the conversationtoday.
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
Super grateful to be here today.
SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
Yeah, man.
I'm pumped to pumped to haveyou, pumped to talk to you.
I mean, you're a guy who gets achance to see, you know, what
hundreds and hundreds andhundreds of companies are doing
around this kind of concept of,you know, personalization,
really candidly, you know,modern outbound and you know,
where this thing's going.
You know, you got people likeyou know, the head of sales loft
saying, you know, right?
(03:06):
Like whacking like SDRs, likewe're gonna whack them all.
It's like that seemscounterintuitive to your
business model, but you know, soI think we're kind of in this
weird state right now when itcomes to outbound.
And I think this concept of youknow, personalization at scale,
uh, et cetera, is somethingthat, you know, I don't I think
a lot of people, I don't know ifit was a myth, but I do feel
(03:27):
like a lot of people neveractually really understood what
that was or even gave it like areal chance because their
definition was, you know, acouple custom fields.
And so, you know, to kind ofkick things off, I'm curious,
you know, when you're workingwith clients in particular,
there's a lot of tools, allright?
A lot of tools that are like,hey, we're gonna help you
personalize at scale.
Because I do believe the conceptis the only way to win today.
(03:50):
I believe, and I also believethe bar is lower than ever.
That like people are sending outsuch garbage that if you
actually do some level of like,I get you, that you can cut
through the noise.
But like, why are reps stillgetting, you know, 0.02% reply
rates?
Like, why is this concept ofpersonalization slash you know
(04:11):
relevancy at scale struggling somuch?
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
Yeah, I I would say like right off the the rip,
Jake.
I think it's mainly because alot of people are just lazy.
Like it just comes down to theydon't want to put in the work.
Um, so it's easier to set up atemplate with dynamic fields of
name, title, company, and justspray and pray a thousand people
(04:35):
at once.
So you've got all these reps whopossibly are college graduates
or a few years in, they've got aquota number, their their
director, VP of salesdevelopment is on them 24-7 to
hit two meetings a day, onemeeting a day, four meetings a
day.
So they've just got this insanepressure from management.
So they're just like, okay, Ijust have to get as many
(04:56):
activities going because mymanager manages me on
activities, so I got to get myemails out, I gotta try to hit
my 50 to 100 to 200 dials.
So it's a lot of like massaction, limited personalization.
Can I wish and pray that anyonewould reply to book a meeting?
And that's that's what we'reseeing today.
The great news is there's aneasy way to fix it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:20):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
And I think that that's a reallygood.
All right, let's caveat.
So let's chalk about it, man.
What is the easy way to fix it?
Because I think you really hitit on the head.
And when you say lazy, I thinkit's leadership, man.
If I'm just being perfectlyhonest, I think leadership, we
are looking for an easy buttonversus developing talent.
I think we're looking many timesto say, instead of helping, you
(05:41):
know, our reps to understand,like, look, if you want this
person to meet with you, you gotto add value.
And if you're not adding value,and I don't see in this
conversation or this note orthis LinkedIn or whatever that
you can add value, I'm not gonnameet with you.
And so I feel like we're in thiskind of chicken and egg where
it's like, you know, we're nothitting numbers, so we're like,
just do more.
People are leaving too soon, sopeople aren't investing in them.
(06:04):
And so what are some of thethings, right?
When you think about like whatgood enough looks like, and I
think that that's that's what alot of people are looking for,
which is okay, I get it.
I want to be able to do it.
Like, what is good enough looklike?
You know, and and obviouslywe're gonna talk a lot about AI
and how it's you know, you know,ingrained as a part of the
process, but you know, what doesgood enough look like?
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
I I would say, you know, the way that I've got 150
reps, we went from zero dollars,me founding the company to doing
over 250 million in in revenueand sales, stripe transactions,
right?
Like got the receipts, pull upstripe, you see 250 million,
literally like with my barehands from nothing.
Yeah and and this was started 10years ago.
(06:49):
And when I we did that, the waythat I drove personalization,
and I agree with you, like itcomes from the top with
management.
The way that I drovepersonalization at scale at that
time, where you just had dynamicfields was just go buy personas.
So, like at the core, my mainnumber one user were SDRs using
(07:10):
our software seamless to bookappointments.
Then you had AEs, then you hadsales ops, then you had VPs and
CROs.
So what we did was to dopersonalization at scale.
We laid out all of the personas.
What are their biggest problems,their pain points, their
challenges, what keeps them upat night?
Okay, that's their currentstate.
Dream state.
(07:31):
What is their dream outcome,their goals, their dreams, their
desires, what are their KPIs,their responsibilities, their
specialties?
What are they held to everyweek, month, quarter?
So once you have the personas,okay, you uh now you customize
your campaigns, your calls,emails, social touches, you
customize the persona, and nowyou're already going from spray
(07:52):
and prey to anyone to veryspecific to persona.
That works really well.
And then what we did to do evenmore scale is we went from
personas to industry personas.
So now I'm talking to the SDRwho's in the trenches in San
Francisco, in SaaS, trying toscale from 50 million to 100
(08:14):
million in ARR.
Build a massive list of 10,000AEs who are in B2B SaaS in San
Francisco, trying to go from 50to 100 million in ARR.
And now all my messaging feelslike holy shit, this guy knows
what keeps me up at night, holdsme back, problems, pain points.
They've got my dream outcome.
(08:35):
They're telling me how theycould help me go from current
state, pains, problems to dreamoutcome, dream state, and
they've got the solution.
But in reality, like I didn'twrite that custom for one to
one.
I wrote that for one to many,but when you match the personas
with different filters, I alwaysthink like building a search
engine, I always think in termsof search filters, like yeah,
(08:56):
okay, I'm gonna combine thetitles with an industry.
Now I can go hyper-personalizedbecause the pain points of a VPS
sales in tech is different thanthe VPS sales in finance,
manufacturing, healthcare, youknow, consumer goods, retail.
They're all different.
And when you combine the two,that is like step one person,
(09:19):
persona in industry, and thenthere's AI for number three,
which takes it the next stepfurther.
SPEAKER_02 (09:25):
Yeah, let's and we'll get into that.
That's it.
So it's so hard to think exactlywhat we talk about, right?
And I think this is where we'llget into AI, which is the
person, right?
Like I think this is the easiestthing.
Guys, your products, if anybodylistening, your product solves
for like three to five thingsmaximum.
Maximum.
And if your sales team doesn'tknow that what that persona, the
(09:46):
three things that they like havechallenges with, that's step
one.
And you you literally hit on thehead.
We even call it, we take it astep further, we call it
sub-industry, Brandon, where wesay, look, in today's day and
age, and again, AI is helpful,it says it's not manufacturing,
it's not industrialmanufacturing, it's heavy
equipment machine manufacturing.
And it's easier than ever to belike, Do you know?
Well, not you know, because yousee a lot of these emails,
(10:07):
right?
It's like, I work with other VPsof operations that do this.
It's like, no, I know that a VPof operations in industrial
manufacturing has thesechallenges, and someone in
consumer package goodsmanufacturing has these
challenges.
And, you know, then that's wherewe we talk a lot then about AI,
which says, hey, what are theheadwinds?
What are the trends that theperson in the industry called
the triangle, kind of the personin the industry and the trends
(10:28):
they're facing, and you know,how we solve that?
And I feel like that to me isthe big unlock.
I uh in my career, uh, my firstjob outside of sports was with a
company called Career Builder.
And I ended up running thePacific North Northwest
Territory.
We had I had 10 plus people onmy team, and so we were
geo-based.
And so, Brandon, I had to learnall these industries.
(10:49):
We had a binder.
SPEAKER_01 (10:50):
I can't, we had a binder.
This it's so funny.
My uh my head of customersuccess was the CRO at Career
Builder.
So I they follow, I totally getit.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
It's a CB.
Yeah.
Small world.
But so that's it, man.
SPEAKER_02 (11:04):
Study all this stuff, and I had to study the
industry, man, and I made a lotof mistakes and be like, hey,
look, I get you, I know whatyou're happening.
And then I would, I was, youknow, I was 25, 26.
Tell me, like, what does a CNCmachinist do?
Like, I didn't know, you know,and I feel like that to me is
still because what you'retalking about, Kevin Dorsey
calls it relevancy versuscustomization.
(11:25):
Well, we're what we're talkingabout, and I agree it's
relevant.
It's not, you're right, it's nota hundred percent personalized,
but you are showing such a deeplevel of understanding.
And again, I only solve forthree things, and those three
things slightly warp based ontrends that the person in the
industry is solving for.
And and I and I feel like thatis what so many people are
(11:46):
missing.
That, and then the other thing,and because I want you, I want
to hear your kind of take on AI,um, is because I feel like this
bar is so low, yeah, people arejust like, how can I templatize
this to just like get as manyout as possible?
Whereas, you know, I had abinder and we had to like figure
it out.
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
So so how started it, it was like no one taught
me, and this is the gap inmanagement.
When I was selling for IBM andGoogle, I had to like do my own
research on personas and whothey were and what they cared
about.
Like, step one, massive balldrop.
Managers and directors and VPsand leaders, revenue officers,
should be having all of theirpeople obsessed with the
(12:28):
personas.
Every persona should be laidout.
I used to go to nd.com,monster.com, and I would read uh
job postings to learn about mypersona.
Like what were their KPIs?
What'd they care about?
What would they try to do?
And what's cool is if you'reprospecting into any account,
studying the job postings ofthat department will teach you a
(12:49):
lot about that account.
What are their goals?
What are their KPIs?
What do they need to do?
How do they need to do it?
What tools are they using?
You could skip through 70% ofyour sales discovery on a pitch
because you just go through thejob postings of that department
on the site, get all that data.
But that's how I used to do itlike 15 years ago.
SPEAKER_02 (13:07):
We have AI.
We actually had to like learnthis shit.
Like we have to actually learnthat, like, oh wait, it's this,
it's not that, it's this, this,this, this.
Like, we had to figure out howto triangulate it between, like,
okay, this is what they do,these are the challenges, like,
here's what we solve for.
And you'll love this.
One thing I did um, a guy in myNBA program, Jim, uh, he was a
(13:28):
VP of operations at Bekessen.
And go back to the personas, Igot Jim to give my whole sales
team a tour of the facility.
We went in and it was like, Jim,you explain to them what a VP of
operations does.
Because I knew, like, I love howyou said that, obsess over the
persona.
It's that dumb simple.
And like, that's where with myteams, I got I knew if they
(13:48):
obsessed over the persona,they'd figure the rest out.
You know, they'd figure out howto generate meetings, how to
close more deals.
SPEAKER_01 (13:53):
You already know everything about them.
And I think like this the steptwo is like managers, directors,
leaders.
Now I've got a 30 to 50 pagedocument, one page per persona
that goes down top to bottom,like chief revenue officer, VP
of sales, VP of salesdevelopment, director of sales
ops, rev ops, director of salesdevelopment, like every role
(14:15):
I've got laid out AEs, BDRs,BDMs, customer success, customer
success director, VP of customersuccess marketing.
I've got all these differentpersonas for every department.
And anyone that comes in andlike, for example, I just hired
a new social producer, Trinity.
First thing that I did whenTrinity came on board, you know,
she was like ready to sprint andcreate content.
(14:36):
I'm like, for the first likemonth, I don't want you to write
anything.
I want you to study and obsessover the personas, know who
we're writing to, talking to,like who we're trying to help
and create their dream outcomesfor.
And then once you learn thepersonas, it was like, okay,
then audit the current contentwe've got, what's performing
well, what's not.
And now we can create newcontent because at the core of
(14:58):
anything we do, it's likepersonas, audit, strategy,
execution plan, and laying outthose personas for your reps to
study.
And I would give them names.
So people like Jim, and who'sthe VP of sales, and Sarah,
who's the director of sales.
Like, I would give them names,study them, learn them.
Um, this is basic stuff.
And now you can use AI, like askAI, give me the best persona of
(15:23):
this person in this role, andyou know, use any of the LLMs,
Chat GPT, Grok, Gemini, Claude,Anthropic, Perplexity.
It's gonna give you a reallynice write-up, and then you just
templatize that, build it intoyour go-to-market playbooks.
SPEAKER_02 (15:39):
Yeah, okay, this is good.
So this is a good transition.
Let's talk about this, and thenI want to get into let's call it
like data and you know how wethink about you know pattern
disruption, a few other thingstoo.
But let's talk about kind of theAI playbook for this concept of
personalization or relevancy orwhatever we want to call it.
Uh, you know, the first thingthat you talked about in let's
(16:01):
talk about this is the personasthemselves.
So if I'm a leader out there, oreven better, a rep, and I say,
hey, man, this makes a lot ofsense to me.
I need to do better about this.
What is one or two things a repshould do now that we have AI in
order to get up to speed onthese personas, in order to
(16:22):
really make sure that I'm ableto communicate with them?
Because again, think if I'm 25,26.
I was actually doing a sessiontoday with one of our clients
today.
And I had a woman, she wasprobably, or she's early in her
career, I'm gonna guess 26, 27.
And she was like, Hey, like, whoam I to like talk to these
people like a business expert?
(16:42):
She's a we work with uh theAtlanta Hawks here, NBA.
Shout out to the Hawks.
And, you know, she's like, Whoam I to be this expert?
Like, and so I think a lot ofpeople struggle with that part,
Brandon.
It's like, okay, I know a CEO isthis, but who am I to know that
this challenge keeps them up atnight?
And so how could or how shouldreps be thinking about using AI
to get deeper in the persona andthen applying that to you know
(17:04):
generating more meetings in thefirst place?
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
Yeah, like what we coach, so so we've got over a a
million sales team, salespeopleusing our software.
And what we teach them, which islike similar to what you teach
them, Jake, is how to use AI toresearch the persona, the
company, the contacts, and theneverything about them.
So like I've got our softwareand different LLMs researching
(17:30):
all of the data.
Number one, who's the personaand the full persona profiles
that goes into the CRM.
Number two, the ICP.
Like for me, we sell to salesteams and go-to-market teams.
So who that company and thatteam sells to is really well.
So like when someone signs upfor seamless, I automatically
know their personas.
(17:51):
I know every search filter thatthey sell to, titles, employee
sizes, funding, webtechnologies.
Like, for example, Pandadoc is aproposal contract management
software.
Right when Pandadoc signs up fora license to Seamless, as a free
user, I know all of the titles,top 20 titles.
It's CRO, VPS sales, sales ops,legal, any, you know, anyone
(18:12):
that touches contracts, proposalmanagement.
I know that if their topintegrated CRM is Salesforce and
HubSpot.
So the best web technology listto sell to for them is to help
them connect with Salesforce andHubSpot customers.
I know they only go after reallyideally 50 to 100 employee sizes
up to a thousand.
(18:33):
I know that revenue, they reallywant them to be at 25 million to
200 million.
This is all using AI and data,like from seamless to automate
all of it.
Then it all gets into my CRM.
So I know I have 100 data pointsabout the company, 100 data
points about the contact, 50data points about their ICP and
who they sell to.
So I know who they're trying togo after, what everything they
(18:56):
know about the competitor orsorry, the company, the
competitors, the landscape, theSWOT analysis, and then them
personally, like contactprofessionally and personally.
What do they care about?
What do we found on social?
You name it.
Do they love watching theAtlanta Hawks play?
Uh, and then you pull that alltogether so that when you're in
discovery, like you already knoweverything about the contact,
(19:19):
the company, and what they'retrying to accomplish.
And like you are the expertbecause you have the data, and
then it's just asking discovery.
I like asking both open-endedquestions and also close
multiple choice questions, like,you know, close multiple choice
as like, hey, like what's yourbiggest goal this next quarter?
(19:40):
Is it generating leads, bookingappointments, closing more
sales, increasing close rate,increasing AOV, driving
expansion revenue?
So, like sometimes I'll A B testhaving all this data, open-ended
questions, like tell me aboutyour biggest challenges and
goals that's holding you backfrom you told me you want to go
from one million to fivemillion.
(20:00):
What are the biggest thingsholding you back from achieving
that?
I'll do both open-ended andclosed-ended questions with
multiple choice and kind of showit on the screen.
And uh, both of those strategieskind of allow you to quickly
ramp the convo and the pitch,use all that AI, and then figure
out where's the gap.
Current state, dream outcome,how do we bridge the gap from
(20:22):
getting B?
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
Yeah, point A to point B.
SPEAKER_02 (20:24):
Exactly right.
And I think then the other partabout AI to add to that, what it
also does is not only do I havefirst party data, or even
sometimes this intent or thirdparty data, I have industry
friend data.
And I feel like this to me, whenwe work with a lot of our
clients around relevancy atscale or personalization
relevancy at scale, it's I cantalk to a business leader and I
(20:46):
can say, look, it's what itlooks like to me, the labor
market over the next 12 monthsin southern Florida, here are
the big trends.
How are you thinking about that,Tom?
Like that ability, and then itthe ability to use that in
outreach too, right?
Obviously, an outbound to say,look, I know if you sell to
we've got a client in the um,you know, it's like payment
payment early space with a lotof like blue-collar companies.
(21:08):
And it's not like, hey, I workwith other McDonald's franchise.
And it's like, no, I know as afranchisee in Southern Florida,
here are the top three trends inthe labor market over the next
six months.
And I know that this is what'sgonna happen.
And that to me is like thetrends for me when it comes to
AI, brand, and are some of myfavorite, like just like it adds
(21:29):
that extra layer of like, whoa,this this person is a true
because I really believe this inthe future, no one's gonna want
to talk to sales rep unless theycan add incremental value.
If I can't see from your emailor from your note that this is
someone who knows stuff, youknow, not just knows their own
product.
Because guess what?
I can find out about yourproduct with ChatGPT.
I can say, tell me all abouttheir products, what do they do,
(21:50):
compare them to what I'm doingnow, build a matrix, give me one
wildcard player to competeagainst them.
I can I probably know more aboutyour products than you do when I
come inbound.
But I feel like the ability tobe that industry advisor, and
and I think when it comes tooutbound in particular, I just
feel like it's going to be sucha critical, you know, component
of this.
So we've talked about um, andjust to kind of keep keep us
(22:12):
going here, we've talked aboutthe persona piece.
We're talking about, you know,how to again engage during the
call, and I think that's areally good call out, too,
because man, if you're justasking the same questions,
there's nothing that's tailored,they're not smart, and you know,
you're not going the next layerdeep.
Why would anybody talk to you?
SPEAKER_01 (22:31):
You got to act like a business consultant there.
You gotta act like uh like whenI was in IBM Interactive as a
23-year-old pitching CMOs of theFortune 500.
If I just came in there and juststarted asking them, like, you
know, what do you want to do inmarketing?
What are your marketing goals?
What are your marketingstrategies?
You know, they'd look at me likeI'm an idiot.
I I had to come in there andknow everything about what
they're doing in digitalmarketing, what they're doing in
(22:53):
acquisition marketing, how can Ishare strategies and audit and
execution?
I had to come audit strategy,execution plan, ROI plan, and
then roadmap on how to achievethe ROI by filling the gap of
the current state versus thedream outcome and the
recommendations that we tiedback to our services.
You got to be that businessconsultant, and AI can help you
(23:16):
become a quick, amazing, fastbusiness consultant.
And we didn't even talk aboutthe third layer, the third layer
of using AI and personalizationat scale.
So, like I love this part.
You you could actually be anidiot and not know how to do the
personas and not know how to dothe personas in industry
content, and now you can use AIprompting with Seamless Connect
(23:39):
or Workflow Automation Tool orother tools, bake it into just
GPT or Perplexity or whateveryou like, Claude in Gemini,
where you could just write theprompt email or call script,
like, you know, hey, uh, youknow, you are a top email
copywriting expert who is taskedwith writing this email to
(24:02):
insert dynamic field title atcompany.
Don't use any pleasantries like,hi, how are you doing?
You know, I hope you're you'redoing well.
I hope you're having a greatday.
Just go straight into like shareone of the top problems that
this contact is having at thiscompany, offer a solution to
(24:24):
help, and then a call to action.
Like, and and the AI LLMs couldreally hyperpersonalize the
scripts for your emails, yourcall scripts, everything you got
going on.
So it is pretty damn good.
I like to keep the AI emails tothree to five sentences spaced
for each.
And then now you can fly throughsuper hyperpersonalization at
(24:47):
scale by contact using the LLMto customize each email, to
customize each call script.
And then you're making thecalls, you're making the emails,
everything is custom to thecontacts and the company, their
goals, their problems.
And that's just all about promptengineering.
You have to get really good atprompt engineering.
SPEAKER_02 (25:10):
All right.
This is big, great point, andI'm super excited.
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(25:30):
There are six weeks, one hour,there's a certification at the
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(25:53):
So head to scale.com.
We've got a link in the shownotes to reserve your spot
before they fill up.
Yeah.
For a lot of people listening,what I like about what you're
saying, and I do believe this isthis one thing I believe is the
culprit for quite a bit of this,which is scale doesn't mean
(26:13):
everything's automated.
And I feel like what's happenedis we have started to, and
people who, you know, follow mycontent know I say this a lot,
but we have confused scalableand automated.
And everything that Brandon istalking about is scalable, like
mad scalable, like extremelyscalable.
SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:35):
And and the human should be in the loop, my
friends.
What we're just talking about isgetting to V1 faster.
We're getting into V1 of thoseinsights that are going to
resonate with somebody faster.
And then the human turns on thebrain and says, hey, okay, this
makes sense here.
I'm going to tweak this here.
Because my friends, if you'rejust copying and pasting AI or
(26:55):
you're just sending AI-basedemails, that is the sh most
surefire way to be unemployed inthe next two years.
100%.
Because what do I need?
If AI can look at the website,look at the person, and do this
and write the email and hit copyand paste and send, you will be
unemployed.
Because the then the guy, youknow, we haven't seen any
outbound agents like AI outboundwork at scale, like with you
(27:16):
know, insert like early stagestartup burning through their
TAM.
You know, can it help you togenerate millions of dollars, a
few million dollars, maybe?
Um, but I do feel like this iswhat everybody needs to start to
realize is that we need to startto build scalable
personalization and relevancy.
And AI is the backbone to getthe research and the insights,
(27:36):
like you talked about, Brand.
It's like boom, boom, boom.
And then I'll get another kindof piece that I'll add is what
we'll tell with reps and some ofour clients is we'll say, okay,
because we'll get this question.
Well, are they actually learninganything?
Are they learning it?
You know, et cetera.
And we'll say, well, okay, I getthat.
That makes sense.
Then what you can have them doat the end of the prompt is you
say, hey, I don't know anythingabout HVAC.
(27:57):
Create a 10 question trivia gamewith multiple choice questions
and and quiz me on HVAC.
And then guess now I'm learning.
So not only am I getting ahead,I'm putting together better
messaging, now I'm learning theindustry.
And so I really believe rightnow that this is the only way to
win.
Like I really do not feel like,you know, all the people are
saying outbound are dead if yougo look at their emails to the
(28:18):
people that are not doing whatwe're talking about.
SPEAKER_01 (28:20):
And I think everyone's like everyone's
trying to sell you something,right?
So the sales tech will tell youmarketing's dead, the marketing
people will tell you sales techis dead, inbound's dead,
outbound's dead, all boundsdead.
Uh, you know, it's all a bunchof bullshit, essentially, where
(28:41):
it all works if you work.
You got to put in the work.
And if you put in the work inoutbound, it will work.
If you put in the work in ads,marketing will work.
So yeah, if it's not working,there is something that you
don't know, KNOW, that you needto figure out, whether it's with
AI, personas, studying themarket, the industry trends.
I totally agree with you.
(29:01):
Like the latest industry trends,right now, everyone's trying to
learn and master AI to scale andautomate and grow.
Like, how can your productleverage that to connect with
your personas to help themachieve their dream outcomes, to
cut the waste?
Like, it's interesting becausewe've automated our support.
So we went from like 25 supportpeople down to three.
(29:23):
I've got automated chat, email,phone support, uh 24-7 at a 90,
87% to 92% resolution rate.
And like, we're taking the sametech that we use to automate
support, and we're then applyingit to like, how can I help all
my employees at my company haveauto email drafts and auto like
(29:47):
everything?
Like I think that you could havehyper personalization, but then
you also need the human valueadd element, like you had
mentioned, where like I'm tryingto help our people become much
faster and Better and smarter sothat they can focus on higher
ticket problems versus lowdollar problems.
And I think you get paid themost when you solve really big
(30:09):
problems for people versussmall, tiny problems.
And we try to use AI to help allof our employees help our
customers with the big ticketstuff.
SPEAKER_02 (30:18):
You have to.
I mean, I think I think andwe're all ahead there.
The frontline CS, inbound leadmanagement is another one.
Who like the inbound SDR to meis one of the craziest
positions?
It's like, I'm interested, theseare the things, and you're
qualifying me?
Like what what like what whatplanet are we on that you're you
(30:39):
know, again, and that's where Ithink AI is like I can get
answers, etc.
Let me ask you this on yourproduct side.
So, you know, how are you, whenit comes to seamless, how are
you for your customers, youknow, balancing this concept of
automation, human insight, youknow, human insight and
generating outcomes, you know,because at the end of the day,
(30:59):
that's the goal.
And obviously you guys are, youknow, can you know we've been
kind of AI forward for a longtime.
But you know, as you think aboutwhat the product is doing now,
how are you helping clients tobalance that, you know, like AI
versus human and how it all fitstogether?
SPEAKER_01 (31:15):
Yeah, like our our big mission is to help customers
automate sales from data todeals, like from data to sign
contracts.
How can we automate as much ofthat as possible so that they
could focus on the selling andthe pitching and the closing
versus the non-selling work?
So, you know, at first it waslike 10 years ago, built a
(31:37):
search engine to find all thecontext and companies in the
world, use AI to research,validate, and verify their
emails and their cell phonesusing a 10-step verification
engine.
That's why like Sergey Brandonand his wife from Google
invested, Guy Kawasaki, Amazon,all these done at Bradstreet,
all these big companies, um,they invested because 10 years
ago we were trying to be all inon AI, like at the start, um,
(31:59):
because our competitors hadthese like stale outdated
databases.
So once we solved the data, itwas like, okay, and you've got
all the signals.
Like, I think it went fromfinding your TAM to then
signal-based TAM, like how canwe have funding and tech and uh
news and job changes and allthis stuff automated?
They mentioned you on socialmedia, they mentioned you in the
news, they mentioned you allover.
(32:20):
Competitor wrote a bad, likesomeone wrote a bad review about
your competitor.
You got all these signals, sothen like staying on top of your
TAM, sitting on top of signals,and now we're trying to automate
or helping our customersautomate, you know, everything
from data to deal.
So that means like workflow,creating the campaign.
So like using AI to auto-createthe multi-step, let's just call
(32:44):
it a 12-step campaign, fouremails, four calls, two LinkedIn
messages, and two direct mailpieces.
Okay, that's 12 steps over 12days, and then filling in the
content for those, but lettingthe rep or the user customize it
and edit it.
And then we just build all theseagents and automations where,
(33:07):
like, okay, Jake changes a job.
Our platform automaticallytracks that.
We automatically find the email,the cell phone, the information
from him.
We add him to a new job changecampaign that's got AI prompts
in it.
Those have been edited, thatgets sent out automatically.
It emails him.
Jake responds, I'm interested.
(33:28):
We've got an email draftpre-populated for you.
So, like then ideally,automating even the email reply
back and forth for outbound.
You know, there's TCPA and a lotof phone regulations where you
can't automate outbound AIcalling.
Um, but we do have AI voice andAI emailing that's uh, you know,
(33:53):
possibly 90% better than a lotof reps.
SPEAKER_02 (33:55):
Like send in the template anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Yeah, we don't let go of a lot of like we had to
let go of some people who werejust like sending like worse
messages than like what our AIcould come up with because they
weren't putting in the work, youknow, working remote, it's easy
to be lazy, it's easy to notwant to put in the work and
really deliver an amazingmessage to the user or the
customer.
But if you combine hard work asa human tied with the messaging
(34:23):
of like AI and the research ofAI and the automation, you can
make magic happen.
Like, this is the best time tobe in sales because you could go
from the average making 100k.
If you use these tools in techand you really give a damn and
you put in the hours, you can gofrom 100k to 500k to a million
very fast.
Like it took me working 18 hoursa day days a week to become a
(34:47):
millionaire in sales as a normalsalesperson 15 years ago, and I
didn't have AI.
Like nowadays, you could be akid out of college that's
working hard, knows a persona,uses AI, and goes from you know
a 50k base to like 250, 500 amillion fast.
SPEAKER_02 (35:05):
Yeah.
What I love is just this conceptof how these two are so
intertwined.
What you haven't heard ustalking about is trying to
automate 100% of things.
You know, what's seamless, youknow, obviously what you're
doing is it's like the data, theresearch, the behind the scenes.
And this is where, again, andI'll have to turn your brain on.
You have to see all the studies.
(35:25):
It says, look, the skills we'regonna have are creativity,
strategic thinking, curiosity.
This is it.
This is what we got.
Like, this is the knowledge.
SPEAKER_01 (35:36):
Three, I agree.
Like strategic thinking numberone, you gotta be able to think
and and solve problems and thinkoutside of the box.
And I think curiosity, likeprobably curiosity would
actually trump the strategicthinking.
Because if you're just curiouson how to help them improve and
asking smart questions to helpthem improve, like you're you're
(35:56):
there.
You're you're right there.
Like then you can figure outwhere they at today, what's
their dream outcome?
You ask curious questions, likeyou'll learn what's holding them
back, new ideas, new strategiesto help them get there.
And I think if you apply thosethings, that's what's going to
take it to be ultra successful.
And you could do anythingapplying, you know, the
strategic thinking, thecuriosity, the empathy, and care
(36:18):
to your customers.
You do those things with AI, youknow, you're you become
superhuman, and that's what it'sabout.
It's serving more people.
Like we all have these amazinggifts, we all have these amazing
talents.
How can we serve as many peopleas humanly possible so that they
can benefit from what you've gotto help them?
Hey, do those things, you'll beable to crack the code.
SPEAKER_02 (36:40):
You mentioned, yeah, you mentioned the word
consultant.
Like that's always, you know,and I don't know.
I mean, I, you know, look, Iwent to Missouri State
University, right?
So I didn't go to a consultingschool university, but um, you
know, I I always took this kindof consultative approach, and
then people put labels on all ofit of what it means.
And that that to me is still theuniversal truth is your ability
to help ask questions that helppeople uncover the answers for
(37:04):
themselves.
I think it's what made me a goodleader at times as well, too.
Where, you know, I'm not theadvice, you know, giving you all
the advice.
I'm pulling, I'm letting yourealize by asking the right
questions, you know, pulling itout and saying, like, look,
wherever your path is, amazing.
Let's get you on that path.
SPEAKER_00 (37:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:18):
And not feeling so desperate to say, hey, you have
to buy from me, as opposed tolike, look, you came to me, I'm
an expert, let me help guide youwhere this might go.
If it's with us, fantastic.
We'd love to work with you.
If not, here's another path,too.
And and that that's universal.
I don't feel like that's goingto be in a doctor.
SPEAKER_01 (37:37):
If you're sick and you go to the doctor's office,
the doctor isn't going to justlike prescribe medicine to you
without doing a full audit and afull QA.
And like, you got to act like adoctor.
Like, okay, I'm here to cure youfrom your problems to help you
achieve your dream outcome ofbeing healthy, being successful,
(37:58):
being rich, whatever it is.
So if you approach sales like adoctor, okay, I'm gonna ask you
a bunch of questions, I'm gonnasee where you're all messed up,
and then I'm gonna fix you.
SPEAKER_02 (38:07):
Like, you'll be golden.
That's always I mean, it's sofunny.
That's such a good analogy.
That's what I tell is again,speaking of consultants.
Um, I tell our consultants allthe time, guys, our job is not
to recommend, our job is toprescribe.
Nobody is coming to you saying,give me options.
They're coming to you becauseyou're the expert.
You need to prescribe thesolution.
(38:29):
Right now, you know, and chancesare it's you know you're not
gonna prescribe anything that'slike crazy, but I do feel like
that is is a part of this thatand even it when it comes to
outbound, you need to say, look,I know that enough about you and
your persona, etc.
This is probably what you'refacing, and I think I can help
you to solve that and you knowlet's set up time so we can
(38:49):
prescribe the right solution.
But I you know directionally,this is probably where we're
going, right?
SPEAKER_01 (38:56):
Like as a part of the I like the audit, basically
audit the the diagnosis and thenthe prescription.
I think going in that order, umyou can find out anything to
help to really help anyone forsure.
SPEAKER_02 (39:11):
You have to.
Uh all right, man.
Like as always, it's alwayslike, oh man, all right, we're
almost at time.
Um where are we headed, man?
When you think about let's talkabout you know 2026 is around
the corner.
SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
It's big.
It's big.
Super artificial intelligence,like SGI, super artificial
intelligence, AGI is is here,artificial general intelligence.
It's coming, it's here, it willbe here faster than any of us
know.
You can use AI for for reallyanything, like automating all of
your data needs, automating yourresearch needs, automating your
(39:47):
writing needs.
Um a lot of people can tell ifit's written by AI.
It's like so.
SPEAKER_02 (39:54):
Yeah, it goes it goes bold, point, point, point,
line, next one, upper signs, orwhat are those called?
SPEAKER_00 (40:01):
Those lines and that.
SPEAKER_02 (40:03):
Well, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know what the Idon't what I don't know what the
long dash lines are, but we'retalking about yeah, the long
lines.
SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
I don't know what the dashes are everywhere.
SPEAKER_02 (40:09):
I don't know what the long line is called.
It's like a page break orsomething.
SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
I don't know but you know, that like people could
tell AI wrote it, and you know,this is why it'd be good to like
swap LLMs or use multiple LLMsso that you're just testing and
changing, and like I would neverjust take an answer from an LLM
or from AI and just blast it outto people.
I would edit it, I wouldcustomize it.
(40:34):
Turn the brain on the execution,use use human input, customize
it.
It's a good hot start.
SPEAKER_02 (40:41):
Like, you know, you to V1, Brandon.
That's exactly it.
SPEAKER_01 (40:45):
Andrew Chen from uh like he started a company that
sold to Uber, then he was thehead of growth at Uber, then he
went on to uh I think AndersonHorowitz is a VC partner.
Like he wrote a book called TheCold Start Problem.
And like why SaaS companies failis because they all have these
cold starts.
Like you sign up and then younever achieve the first aha
moment or success.
(41:06):
And we see that a lot, like samewith go to market.
Salespeople will get a new job,but they can't figure out how to
build the list, how to write theemails, how to do the calls, how
to do the pitch, how to do thesales discovery.
I think great sales leadershipsolves that.
And I think great training onusing AI solves that.
And you combine those things,like you can do anything, but
(41:30):
I'd go all in on leveraging AIto make your team faster.
You're gonna see organizationswith lay less way less employees
because employees becomesuperhuman, you can do way more
with less people.
Every company's doing it.
Oh, and by the way, I call BS.
You want to know what I call BSon Jake?
SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
Yes, I'd love to.
SPEAKER_01 (41:51):
Like, no one knows this.
This is something that no one'sshared yet.
In the news, we see that MarkBenioff is saying, I whacked
4,000 people.
You remember you like this hadthis now?
My theory, and I'm gonna put bigmoney on this, is that that is
(42:12):
not true, and he's actuallyusing the press to sell his AI
agents.
SPEAKER_02 (42:18):
To sell, yeah, agents more.
SPEAKER_01 (42:20):
I I don't even think he whacked 4,000 people.
I've literally I literally thinkhe called the press.
Hey, we no one calls the pressand says I have to let go of a
million people.
Yeah, exactly.
Like you didn't call the pressto let go of a million people,
you didn't let go of 4,000,5,000, 10,000 people.
You literally just wanted tocreate a marketing hack.
Right.
People think that you wereletting go of 10,000 people due
(42:44):
to AI.
Genius marketing strategy, but Icall complete and utter being
six.
SPEAKER_02 (42:48):
I Benny Al.
Yeah, I don't disagree at all.
I think that he's he's the kingof being able to do that.
SPEAKER_01 (42:53):
And hey, look at the 10K of at the end of this year
employee size compared to theend of last year, and let's see
if the 10K employees.
SPEAKER_02 (43:02):
June Forrest really just all of a sudden replaced
everybody, which is I seriouslydoubt.
Uh and I think look, as we kindof go forward, you're hearing it
the same from 85 angles.
It's the people that know how toleverage it, that understand the
art of possible that are goingto win.
Um and Brandon, you know, talkabout where people can learn
(43:22):
more about, you know, kind ofyour approach.
Um, obviously, you know, you'vewritten a few books as well,
too.
Um, or even, you know, even tryseamless AI.
Where's the best places to kindof come, check out what you're
doing, check out what thecompany's doing?
Because I think everybody needsto understand, you know, solving
the data layer is such an easy,kind of dumb no-brainer that
it's just like it's just getmove on.
(43:44):
Like go, like, do this, so thenyou can move on to the value add
stuff.
So where's a good place to findyou and also you know get
started with seamless?
SPEAKER_01 (43:52):
Yeah, definitely.
Thanks for asking, Jake.
We so we've I would go toseamless.ai, we've got free
software for you, our salesleads AI platform, our sales
automation platform right there.
I've got free courses atSeamless AI, I've got free books
at Seamless AI, audiobooks,courses, you name it.
So I would just recommend go toSeamless AI, sign up for free.
You know, we're gonna help youautomate going from data to
(44:14):
deals insanely fast.
Um, we've got a free Connectproduct that will let you create
AI campaigns for emailing,calling, social selling.
We've got a free data product.
Our goal is to provide a lot offree products that make more
money than the paid products,and then eventually you become a
paid customer because of all thevalue that was created.
(44:35):
Uh, and also I've got a new bookcalled Scale Your Sales, how we
went from$0 to$100 million insales and turned prospects into
high, high prep payingcustomers.
Uh, wrote that to basicallydocument what were all the
strategies that we went that weused to go from zero to$250
million in sales in a few years.
So we're gonna be releasing thatbook here on Amazon later this
(44:56):
month.
You can get it, and then we'llhave the free courses and
workshop stuff there.
SPEAKER_02 (45:02):
Always adding value, man.
That's why I love it, dude.
It's been, I'm so glad we caughtup.
It's been it's been too long,actually.
Yeah, it has been a little bit,but you know, I really feel like
you're one of the guys that Ican talk to, and it's like,
okay, but what about this?
And then this and then this andthis.
It's like, okay, good.
Like we can just kind of keepgoing.
So I'm sure the listeners got aton out of this.
Uh, and I know I did as well,too.
(45:23):
It's always good whenever likeI'm filling up like notes over
here, like I'm like writing downthings.
I'm like, okay, yeah, that'sgood.
So man, I really appreciate it,Brandon.
Thanks for joining so much.
Uh, amazing value, supertactical, which is what I love.
SPEAKER_01 (45:36):
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02 (45:38):
All right, amazing.
All right, everybody.
We will see you next Wednesdayon the AI Powered Cellar.
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