February 5, 2025 • 33 mins
This episode explores how generative AI is transforming marketing and product development, emphasizing its potential to drive creativity and optimize strategies while underscoring the necessity of human oversight. Listeners gain valuable insights on leveraging AI for impactful copywriting, marketing analysis, and product innovation.
• Generative AI's role in writing compelling website copy and product descriptions
• Emphasizing the power of testing and learning in marketing strategies
• AI's ability to enhance emotional engagement in content creation
• The need for data-driven decision-making in marketing practices
• The interplay of human creativity and AI in product innovation
• Bridging the gap between product teams and customer insights
• Encouragement to embrace AI as a transformative tool for businesses
If you are interested in learning more about leveraging ChatGPT and generative AI for sales, join our workshops!
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Connect with Jake: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakedunlap/
Connect with KD: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kddorsey3/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
All right, what's up everyone, welcome.
Episode Numero Cinco weactually next month we're going
to Mexico City for spring break.
I'm pumped, man.
I just hear the best things.
Family trip to Mexico City yeah, they do have like a ridiculous
amount of Michelin star city.
(00:27):
Yeah, um, they do have like aridiculous amount of michelin
star uh restaurants.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Food in mexico city is amazing.
I'm pumped.
I'm so pumped you've been no,never.
That's my point.
I'm like I gotta go.
All right, I got, I got a listfor you.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
We love mexico.
Oh, dude, that makes me veryhappy.
Okay, all right, so I'll getthe list from you.
Um man, we got the super bowlcoming up valentine's day too,
for everybody, so shout out, umto I'm already using ChatGBT for
all the love notes.
That's right.
Little love notes.
Man, did ChatGBT help me onChristmas?
Yeah, man, let's be honest, Idon't know if my wife listens or
(00:54):
not.
Maybe she does.
It came up with this idea.
It's like what would be a greatpresent for my kids?
Here are the ages of my kidsfor my wife.
So kids for here are the agesof my kids for my wife.
So listen to this.
So, uh, mommy, daughter photoshoot fuck no brainer.
Uh, time capsule for your sonand your mom for his high school
graduation.
My goodness, I'm like.
Goodness, I'm like done, okay,done like.
(01:19):
These are the best I did.
Oh, um, if she has a garden,paint a workbench for her, for
the garden.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I'm melting right now .
Speaker 1 (01:28):
All of these have been purchased.
All of those were purchasedHome runs, so that was fantastic
.
So last week's or a few weeksago episode why generic AI is
not always your best friend andhow easy it is to get started
with custom GBTs so hopefullyeveryone got a lot of value out
of that and you know.
Today, look, we're going totalk about not just you know our
(01:49):
normal sales topics.
We're actually going to talkabout marketing and product
teams and how they should bethinking about generative AI and
what are some of the trendsthat we think it means for them
and, obviously, the impact onsales, right.
So we're always going to try tobring it home to you know how
this is going to impact you.
But if you're a marketer, ceo,entrepreneur, product manager,
et cetera, I think you're goingto forward this over, if you're
not, to your marketing orproduct team, because I think
(02:11):
this episode is going to givethem a ton of kind of
interesting insights into howteams are and can be using
generative AI.
So it should be a good one.
All right, kd, as usual, everyweek we've got a, or every every
episode we've got a DM questionof the week and it says I'm a
small business owner and I'mcurious how can I use generative
AI to write my website copy andproduct descriptions?
(02:33):
I'm not sure where to start andI think if you're in sales, you
can think about what's theapplication for you.
You know, maybe you want it tohelp you write a pitch or
whatever it is, but how wouldyou answer this small business
owner?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So I love this.
I mean, I've sold SMB for thelast seven, eight years now, so
I love this space.
The easiest way to get startedis to find websites you like.
So find websites that you like,what are other ones in your
space, in your industry oroutside your industry, but like
top performing companies orwebsite, and take theirs as
(03:06):
inspiration.
You can feed that into chat,gpt.
So I want you to review thesewebsites, right, so it gives
some context.
Then, from there, I would liketo write my website modeling,
very similar copy, style,spacing, et cetera.
Here's what I do, right, andthen then give your website, but
then, before you ask it towrite the copy, ask it to.
(03:28):
Now I would like you to ask mea few more questions to get a
better idea of what I do and whoI sell to before you write the
copy.
So I'd start there and thenit's gonna start to spit
everything out.
And then you actually you gavethis tip a few episodes ago and
I was like I had never thoughtabout that of like telling it to
like try a little bit harder.
(03:49):
Yeah, I thought it was so cleverof like okay, that's good, now
try a little bit harder toreally connect with my audience
X, y, z, but that'd be theeasiest.
Give it websites that you dolike, ask it to interview you a
bit more about your customer,who you serve, why you do what
you do.
Get the website copy and thenfrom there ask it to try a
little bit harder, connect alittle bit more emotionally with
(04:11):
maybe who you sell to orwhatever your service is, and
boom you'll you'll have anamazing website.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
That's right.
And I think, on the productdescriptions, you take a very,
very similar approach, right, ifyou're trying to get it to talk
about the product.
You know.
Very similar approach, right,if you're trying to get it to
talk about the product.
You know, you know great.
So here's what this thing does,you know make it really
interesting for a CFO, make itreally interesting for a COO.
(04:38):
Do this.
And then and what I always do,you know I do this all the time
we use chat DBT for some of theshow notes here it's like make
it more provocative, make itmore this, make it more this.
I mean, I constantly I'll askChatGBT for concepts and I'm
like give me three complete wildcards that were like so,
because, by the way, chatgbt'sversion of provocative is like
PG to PG-13, somewhere in there.
(05:00):
So you kind of got to push it alittle bit.
Look, I understand those arethe safe and that's what I'll do
.
Like that, those sound likesafe descriptions.
Give me a radically persuasiveflavor of this too.
And, yeah, I can just do it foryou.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
One of my favorites to add when I'm doing marketing
copy is to give it marketers.
I respect so some of the bestcopywriters of all time right,
the Dan Kennedy's, the EbenPagan's, the Ryan Dice's of the
world.
Gary Halbert, I want you to beinspired by Gary Halbert and Dan
Kennedy when you write this,and it changes the whole dynamic
(05:37):
.
So go give it good copywritersto imitate and it'll run with it
.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
That's right and I think a lot of this is.
You're a small business owner,owner or anyone just make sure
that you're pushing it.
You know you don't need to talkto it like Google.
You need to be specific.
You need to say exactly whatyou want and say it different
ways and try it different waysand you know.
And then and then eventuallyyou start to learn these little
hacks of like how to how to pushit.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
So but keep it going.
Small business owner Keep going.
You're already ahead of thegame.
If you're thinking about itthis way, I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So, all right, man, let's jump into it.
Talk a little marketing, talk alittle product here.
You know, look, I think, look,generative AI is certainly
coming for some roles inmarketing.
And look for me, man, kind ofthe first application I see for
a lot of I call it AI companiesis around copywriting and tone
matching.
You know, I did a talk back inOctober last year and you know,
(06:29):
ok, have any of you createdcustom in GPT's marketer raises
her hand.
She's like yeah, we fed it.
Like you know, 35 of our blogposts to do tone, and she's like
it's awesome.
So, like, how much of marketing?
Look, we talked about salesenablement to you know a few
episodes ago.
How much of marketing in thefuture do we think gen AI can
either augment or replace?
Because I mean, look, thinkabout it.
(06:50):
We're already using it todesign these customized
experience.
You talked about the websitecopy.
You know, optimizing real time.
So so what's the limit here?
Oh, boy, and I'm not gonna saywhat's the limit in three years,
Because who the hell knows,hell knows, but what's the limit
like in 2025?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
So in 2025, I think people are actually going to be
very surprised how high thelimit is, and the reason for
this is because marketers,historically, are significantly
better testers than sales teams.
Agreed.
It's easier to test inmarketing and so what they have
access to, data wise, is unreal,right From click tracking to
(07:28):
eyeball tracking, to clickthrough rates, to scroll time
bounce.
They've split tested fivedifferent headlines, so I
actually think it's easier I'llsay in quotes to actually now
extrapolate that because thedata is so much more specific
and it involves data and humanbehavior.
Where do people look on thewebsite?
Where do they stop?
(07:49):
Well, if I built an app thatsaid, okay, where do people stop
scrolling?
They stop scrolling here.
Well, now I know I need to putsome sort of hook there that
would keep people going.
Right, the ability to createcustom potential websites we're
doing all this inbound, outboundstuff right now.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So content-wise, it's already really, really there
and so do you think of it as socontent?
You know the people that arecontent, or seo blog.
You know, would you know is it?
You know we still need thosepeople, but you know
productivity is going to be, youknow, 3x.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Oh, absolutely Productivity, and you actually
mentioned it on an earlierepisode of.
Like you know, not only does AIlet you do more, but if you're
doing it right, it lets you todo more and better.
Yeah, right, whereas I canlearn from the best out there
and create some of this copy, Istill think for 2025, it still
needs human oversight, totallyFor sure.
It needs recycling, for sure.
(08:45):
There's so many examples ofcompanies that are like oh, seo,
so they made all these aigenerated like content and it
like ranked them early and thenit got smashed, yeah, by google
and punished.
Don't do that.
Don't just go and generate like3 000 articles and think you're
good, like we still need humanoversight there.
But I mean, the content can andshould be better.
It should be able to do moretailored content to your
(09:07):
personas, because that's where Ithink most companies at least.
With blog content it's alwaysvery generic, whereas, like if
you had a blog, whatever say yousold to sellers and sales
leaders and marketers, you coulddo different types of content
for each really super quicklyand then take the data.
What are people downloading?
Okay, splinter that.
(09:27):
Okay that one's not landing.
Okay, splinter that.
And we can actually nowsplinter the content, which I
also think is going to be a very, very big use case.
And you know, I think I'llthrow this one back to you
around.
Like creativity, you know,people are like, oh, like,
humans are creative.
Ai is not.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I don't know if I agree with that.
I mean, would I have came upwith a time capsule for my son
to give my, to create with mywife to open together eight
years later?
Uh, no, no.
And that is a.
It is a ridiculously good idea.
That's so great, you know.
So, um, yeah, I think on that.
I think that's so great, youknow.
So, um, yeah, I think on that,I think that's a really good
call.
On the marketing side, you knowagain, is I think the brand
(10:08):
strategy, the creative, the, thedifferent takes to also just
brainstorm and ideate.
You know, around differentcampaign, hey, campaigns, you
know, here's our highestperforming things.
This is what's worked.
This is what hasn't worked.
Here's the data.
You know, if you want to createa custom GPT, you could, but
you know what are two or threebreak the bank ideas that can
make all of this better.
Now, get wilder, get morecreative.
(10:29):
Now give me this.
I mean, we literally created anew product for this year called
, you know, we started to talkabout hey, here's the goals for
our company, this is our goalsfor our consulting, here's some
of the challenges that we'rebetter package and it's like
push.
I was like more, like that'snot provocative enough, like
that will resonate with PEs, andjust push.
And we've created a whole newproduct called revenue health as
(10:49):
a service, which is just, Ididn't come up with our has.
I mean, they came up with ourhas, revenue health as earth.
And I'm like, oh, my god, thisis exactly what we've been
trying to to to think about islike this idea that you need to,
on a quarterly basis, belooking at these kind of key
five metrics and constantlydeploying fixes to your sales
org, and it's resonating.
And so, to me, if you're amarketer, there's no shame in
(11:13):
this.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
No, I would be leaning into this heavily and
again, as I was saying, theopener marketers have so much
more and better data thansellers do.
If I know what my top keywordsearches are, I can do a lot of
of that from a marketingstandpoint from ads to content,
to videos, to images, to ebooks,to whatever else like.
There's so much that can bedone with that and this will be
(11:36):
for a whole nother episode.
But even with where outbound isgoing like outbound, almost
turning into like an outboundmarketing channel for most
people it is.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
It's like we've had people that you know we're doing
all these, you know sales, loft, outreach implementations and
and they really just want to useit like hubspot.
And I'm like no, no, no, likewell, the sales reps are
incentivized to just close itand you're like, well, you
should actually be using yourmarketing automation platform
for that.
You know, and I saw here, likeyou know, coca-cola, for example
, like they're already using aifor automating ad creation.
(12:07):
Right, here's the data, here'swhat's working.
Social media content commercial.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Actually, it was the first time I've seen it where I
actually said created with real.
It was like real ai or realmagic ai, like it was actually.
Oh, did it really actually saidit in the commercial?
Like it was in the bottom andthen it was like how they like
wrapped up the commercial.
I saw it for the first timeever.
I was like ooh, is that howit's going to have to be?
Do we have to say that it wascreated?
Maybe, but the commercial waspretty dang good.
(12:34):
And you're like whoa, you know.
So I just I think marketersbecause they have so much data
that they can leverage aroundwhat I love about marketing If I
wasn't in sales, I'd be inmarketing, I would be there.
They have data on what humansdo when not observed.
Sellers we only get theobservation, what you said to me
(12:54):
while I'm there.
Marketers know what people areactually searching for.
Marketers know what people areactually reading.
Marketers know whether asmiling face or a sad face
drives more.
Marketers know three productsversus two products.
They're testing everything.
I think if you are doing wetalk about context a lot here
Marketers that have the contextoh my God, they can do so much
(13:15):
with this.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, I think, if I think about marketing, where I
think it's going to beinteresting is your
opinion-based marketers.
You're like, well, your contenthas to have the.
Again, you talked about theenemy of getting shit done is
trying to be great andperfection.
There's like 50 versions ofthat.
You know.
I see a lot of marketers wherethey're so focused on this and
(13:39):
the brand guidelines and that,this and that, and it's like why
are you focusing on thesethings?
Like you should be focused onlearning, using data and, again,
making more data-basedincisions.
Not trying to feel like youropinion should be the guiding
light, and I I think you knownot that sales and sales leaders
have the same problem.
Um, but I I feel like that'sthe danger for a lot of
marketers.
(14:00):
If you look yourself in themirror, are you the kind of
marketer who is like, you know,yeah, this all makes sense, but
the human needs to do that, andthat's you know, coca-cola is a
good example.
It's like, um, they're, theyhave a creative team that
remains for, like, oversight anddirection.
So we're not talking abouteliminating this, but, again,
like the quality of production,how many things you can put out.
You know the creativity piecesit's just going to.
(14:22):
It's just better that the combois just better.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, and that's what we talked about, actually, the
last episode.
The difference we like customand generic that's why Coca-Cola
still has the team over it isit can prompt all day long like
here's what we want thecommercial to be and you're
going to get version one.
World-class marketers will knowwhat to say.
Back to say okay, no, no, no,no she needs to be smiling.
We actually want a better blendbetween this, that and the
(14:45):
other than it goes off and does.
Right, so it's still thatcontext coming from humans in
2025.
But, oh boy, 2026, 2027, youknow, like, because we've talked
about this, this is actuallywhen we're doing the webinar
series of like content, like ifyou have a content team, ai is
going to get pretty dang closeto being able to do that by the
(15:05):
end of 2025 of like a contentfocused marketing team and the
ones that are good at it,they'll be able to leverage it.
But it's going to.
It's absolutely going to knockthose things out, from eBooks to
downloads, to web pages, toblog articles, to ad creation,
(15:25):
like all that is content backedby thousands actually it'd be
millions of data points forcontext.
That's quick iterations all daylong.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It can do it, yeah, and then again, like you can
create custom GPTs to quicklyget it to know your tone much
faster.
Or, you know, you can thinkabout creating it, for you know,
each of your executives hastheir own custom GPT for
creating content based on theirpreferences.
So I think there's just a lotof applications here for people
that are trying to think abouthow to supercharge marketing.
You know, five years from now,you still have lots of humans.
(15:54):
Five years from now, you stillhave lots of humans.
But as we start to blend contextwith data and the ability,
where generative ai is not, isit?
You can't really look at allthe data together and go deep on
the inferences.
You know, like it's okay at itright now, but five years from
now, if this is where we're at,like the ability to look at the
context that it's been given,the historical trends and then
making more and morerecommendations based on
(16:16):
improved context, that you'regiving it as the marketer, and
utilizing the data in real timeto not make, you know, well, if
you talk 12% less, you'll dothis.
I mean, we're going to getthere.
And so, as you as a marketer,you know it's interesting you
talked about hiring in the lastepisode, a role for GTM.
I think every marketing personshould hire that too Of like,
(16:37):
hey, what are the custom GPTs weshould be creating?
How can we augment?
You know Jake's job to do more.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
That role for me is a no brainer for marketing and I
wish I knew what to call thisrole, but like it is because,
also for me as the CRO, thisrole is touching marketing too,
right?
Because marketing roles to me,CS roles to me, sales role to me
.
This marketing is GTM too.
This role is looking there aswell and going, okay, what are
we learning from marketing?
(17:04):
Even like I talked about this along time ago of like how I
leverage inbound for outbound,right?
So when I'm building anoutbound motion, the first place
I look is the inbound side.
If we have an inbound motion atall, it's like, okay, what are
the highest click through ads?
What are the short form andlong tail keywords?
What are our most viewed blogpages?
(17:25):
And I'm using that to craft myoutbound strategy.
If I know what people aresearching for, that makes a
really good subject line orfirst sentence.
And if I know what our highestperforming headlines are on ads,
I know that makes a really goodhook within the email.
And if I know what personas areinbounding the most on our
(17:45):
website, I know who to targetoutbound.
So I leverage inbound heavilyto build an outbound motion.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Now I can do that all together which is just going to
be wild, and you can use it tocreate, to improve inbound.
Once you see the nuance and, bythe way, I don't think very
many sales and marketing teamsare doing any of this at all Get
them on level, you know.
Yeah, I think it's like bothcan inform both.
How many marketing teams aregoing and looking at the
outbound sequence performanceand saying like, oh, okay, that
(18:15):
hit.
And then vice versa, how manySDR leaders are going.
So I, like, I love that idea.
Let's talk product man.
Let's talk about the influenceon product team.
You know, can AI, you know,innovate faster than a human
product?
You know, and you know, I see,you know, like you mentioned
this, I can see where people areclicking, I can see where
(18:35):
they're scrolling, I can do allthose things.
And you know, obviously, look,I think most product teams are
doing a flavor of that.
But like, isn't there a worldwhere it's doing a ton of the
heavy lifting, where it's like,let me, like, you know, this is
how people are using yourapplication, for example, like
they did this, they did this,they did this.
Nobody is looking at thisfeature.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Like nobody is doing this, this, this and this, so
like, so so this one and anyonethat's worked with me knows like
I'm a word stickler, so I'mgonna call it a word in this
question and I think it mightchange the direction.
Do I believe it will innovatefaster than a human product team
?
I don't yet, because even theexamples you gave were reactive
(19:13):
to me.
Innovation is creating thingsthat have not been done, for I
think it can build faster,potentially, than a human yeah,
optimize what's known faster,okay, no one's using the, I
think it can but innovate.
I don't think next year it'sgoing to innovate faster than a
human team can it use thecreativity though, couldn't it?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I mean, can it, if you think about the combo of the
two here's?
Here's what's working, man.
What are some things that wecould build, create, create or
innovate?
Um, that could improve that weshould be adding to our product
roadmap that we're not thinkingabout.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah.
So that's where you know, if welisten to customers like that's
what I want to use it for, evenwith my own teams, is like go
go to product and say here'swhat customers are saying yeah,
the the product.
(20:11):
Here's what they're saying oncalls where they're not moving
forward, where they're sayinglike one of the things I love to
look for in transcripts is thephrase if you just, if you just
had, if you just could, if youwere just able to.
I love to find that intranscripts because that's
customers telling us If youcould just connect to X, y and Z
, a human still would have totell AI to look for those things
.
Sure.
So the nuance here is I don'tknow if it will innovate faster,
but do I believe it can suggestI do?
(20:34):
Do I believe it can actuallymake changes if I tell it what
to look for?
Hey, if no one's doing x, y andz, let me know.
Let me know, I absolutely thinkit can do that.
I don't know.
On the new opportunities, I'mcurious your take there of like,
actually, without someonetelling it, obviously, if I tell
it to, if I say, hey, what aresome what you're so good at
(20:54):
asking it questions, I wouldn'teven think to ask about.
I was like, hey, we'restruggling in these areas, we
deal with these people.
I want to create a new productover here.
That is innovation that youcaused.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, you led the innovationfrom there.
What was it?
Bhas or something?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
RHAS, rhas.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Revenue Health as a Service Right.
It created it, but you let itthere through the questions.
So I'm curious your take on itsability to create opportunities
versus just identify placesthat are lacking.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Well, I mean, I think you could create a custom GPT
and you told it its job was tobe challenging and to be, you
know, be provocative and to bethese things.
I think you could take the bestparts of brainstorming and
white white whiteboarding and Ithink, hypothetically, not a
hundred percent, and but again Ithink that that that's kind of
(21:48):
my thought on this question is,I think, a lot like marketing.
I think it's there's going tobe a layer of product right,
because also, you, you know howthis is sometimes people think
they want to whatever and a lotof people are like, oh well, if
you did this and people, I meanyou probably still wouldn't, you
know, churn or you wouldn't buymore.
So I think there's a human inthe loop, but I think we could
get there.
I think it could help toinnovate and like help with
(22:10):
creativity and you could, Ithink you could create a custom
GPT.
Maybe that would help innovate,maybe, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Product leaders.
I'd be curious to hear fromy'all on this, because there's
like, as a GTM leader, likewe're thinking about this all
day, like how to do these things.
I'd be curious with that wordinnovate, like what y'all think
it can or can't do aroundinnovation, because I do think
if you give it the prompts, itcould help you do those things,
but I'm not sure yet where thatwill go, because we're already
(22:41):
seeing product headcount isshrinking, product job ads are
shrinking.
Like AI is showing up a lothere on the product side in
terms of you know, some of theAI agents and the creation, and
you actually just mentionedsomething there Very interesting
.
This is my biggest fear by thecreation, and you actually just
mentioned something there veryinteresting.
This is my biggest fear.
By the way, we'll just pull itall open here around ai is at
what point do I stop buyingthings because I can build it
(23:03):
internally, right, and so youmentioned right now, customers
say if you had this feature, Iwould stay at what point?
Is it so easy to do some ofthis that I go, I wake up and
like I'm working on this rightnow?
We're still early.
It was like god, I just need anagent that's going to inspect
pipeline, the way I wouldinspect pipeline.
(23:24):
Look for these things.
Bubble this up, xyz.
Instead of googling productdeal management inspection tool,
I build it.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Oh, that'll happen, you know what like this is my,
this is my a lot of niche.
If you're a niche gtm or aniche software that solves one
specific thing, that's notproviding any type of
proprietary insights, yeah it'smy biggest.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
It's my biggest, I don't knows.
And what ifs around sales andai over the next five years is
what happens when teams canbuild their own internal tools.
And what does that look likewhen I can say here's exactly
what I need and the systems Ineed it to connect to and what I
want it to do and what it needsto look like and who needs to
have access to it and how secureit needs to be, and it goes
(24:10):
cool and it goes off and build.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, or what will have to happen if you think
about most of the tools you buy.
They have no context.
When you buy outreach, when youbuy insert tool gong, whatever,
it has no context.
And so imagine if it's likewell, this is some generic thing
, there's this company as a callrecording API and I can just
(24:34):
program in all the context.
It'll probably immediately bebetter.
And again, and you have peoplewho are these GTM support people
, you know, if you guys haveseen a tool called make, for
example, you know Brian on ourteam isn't like a technical, you
know guru, but with make he'slike well, I, just he, literally
(24:54):
.
We have a dev firm that's beenworking on this journey, a
product that we had our callthem on Tuesday and 24 hours
Brian had used make.
He had inserted the custominstructions.
We already had had a hundredpercent perplexity in make,
verse, um uh, chat, gbt, etcetera, and it immediately
solved it.
The dev team had taken 45 daysto and brian got there in 24
(25:16):
hours.
And so, yeah, I think theability to provide context with
development and productdevelopment, I think is is where
it's at yeah, it's going to bevery, very interesting to see,
because the flip side is alsotrue.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
It's like oh, if it just had this feature, I'd stay.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
If that could be a 24-hour turnaround, if that
could be yeah, exactly, you knowwhatever else there I could
just spin it up and great.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Oh hey, jake, you have this feature yeah, there,
it is like because what I wantand this will sound creepy, but
people understand why I want itI want to have, okay, like uh,
y'all don't hate me for this,you'll know why.
I'm saying this like anobservation bot, like watching
my reps work, but it's not bigbrotherish chill I mean, it
sounds a little just let mefinish the thought.
(26:00):
It's not to see what they arearen't doing or like punish them
for things.
You see, like where could atool step in and help?
Yeah, that's a no-brainer.
Whereas, like it pops, I waslike, hey, did you realize that
there's seven steps to close outan opportunity I built a one
click takes the tall da, da, dada and it closes it.
Like I want to observe, whereare there manual steps that a
(26:21):
tool could step in to do it?
That's what I want to observe.
Or when I did this at my lastcompany, we built, you know, a
tax GPT because, like there werethe constant questions getting
asked every single day aboutdifferent FAQs, whatever else.
I'd love that to be in asked.
So here it is.
(26:42):
We've built this out.
It's preemptive, it's rightthere, like that's what.
That's why I want to observe myreps more.
It's because I know there'splaces I could build things, oh
man, that I just I just don'teven know yet, like I just don't
even know what could behappening.
That's why I want to observe.
It's not just a catch no, I getit.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
You're like yeah, johnny, why didn't you say this?
Speaker 2 (26:57):
that's not what I'm going.
That's why I don't.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
I'm not a big fan of those like co-pilot, ai things,
that where it's like it pops up.
Oh, they mentioned zendesk.
So now, johnny, here's yourbattle card.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Say this and reps are like ignore, like I'm not which
, which is crazy to me, becausethey should want to have those
things, but the use case hasalways been nobody, and it's a
why, like you did, like someonejust mentioned the top
competitor and here's the bestway to handle that competitor,
but then people still don't.
You know it's tough why, likeyou did, like someone just
mentioned the top competitor andhere's the best way to handle
that competitor, but then peoplestill don't.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
You know it's tough to do in real time.
I think I think a lot of thatis.
It's just tough to be presentin a conversation.
I got asked this question on apodcast last week, or maybe it's
a few weeks ago now, aboutthese bots, and I said you know
what the real thing is.
Train your freaking reps onwhat a buyer cares about and
your main competitors.
That's the real solution.
Anyway, I digress.
(27:49):
So, product, my friends, youknow Spotify is already doing
some of this stuff.
Spotify is, you know, havingthey've got large data sets
right.
You know hundreds of millionsof users.
You know, hey, this is working,this is not.
They're doing that, they'rehaving it evaluated.
And you know from a productstandpoint.
Then you know they're sittingon top and their product team is
like, ok, bad idea, good idea.
So I think a lot of this is thesame with marketing.
(28:10):
You have to be using it.
You have to integrate productimprovement.
You know, using AI, you knowgenerative AI, right, like, you
have to have this to move fasterto to as opposed to.
You know, yes, yes, listen tocalls um.
But also to your point aboutsearch and and what people are
doing it's like it's also whatthey're doing unobserved yes,
(28:31):
you know versus what they thinkthey need.
Or you know the executivesponsor is telling us we need
this, but when you click or youlook at the clicks, they aren't
acting like they need that.
They're actually like this.
So it's this combination oflike human element, of like
qualitative inspection coupledwith the data.
So you know, my feedback islook, if you're a product leader
, you have to incorporate this.
(28:53):
Yeah, you can.
Just you'll be able to move somuch faster as a part of this,
even at the most basic level oflistening to a bunch of sales
calls and product listen to CScalls.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah, just like, what are people saying on these QBRs
?
What are the support ticketscoming through?
Let it run through the lastthousand support tickets and see
what are people complainingabout, about your own product.
Start there of like, what arepeople asking for?
What are people saying isbroken?
What are those things comingthrough?
Cause there's always therealways seems to be that big
communication divide betweenproduct and customer facing.
(29:25):
Always, because there alwaysseems to be that big
communication divide betweenproduct and customer-facing
teams.
And I think this is the easiestway to start is to bridge that
gap.
Yeah, get what the customersand the prospects are saying in
front of product to let them seethis and go oh, we can do
something about that.
This was two companies ago atPatientBot where this happened,
(29:45):
where there was just a constantcomplaint coming through and
product had no idea about it.
It actually came up kind of inpassing.
I was talking with one of ourVPs of engineering and I was
like, yeah, someday you'll fixthat.
They're like wait, what Right?
I was like, well, no, thecustomers hate this.
It drives them nuts.
It's one of the biggest reasonswhy people are freaking out.
(30:05):
It's like we could fix that.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, you're like that's easy In a week.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
That's right, they just had no idea about it.
So just bridge that gap forcomms.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
But you could, I mean .
My guess is, though, had theyimplemented AI?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
We didn't have to.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, exactly, they probably could have now known
that a lot faster.
You know, like, hey, why arepeople well, it seems like
consistently people click thisand then, within two seconds,
they then click this to go back.
That's something that you couldsee now.
So I think that that's thefuture there.
So, all right, productmarketing, product and marketing
(30:41):
and product marketing.
Hopefully you all have sometakeaways on some things that
you can do.
The answer, as usual, is youneed to start to do something
now.
My marketers think content andyou know, can you optimize the
quality and quantity of yourteam product?
How can you use it to start tomake improvements faster and
identify improvements faster?
(31:02):
And, you know, maybe, maybe,help a little bit with
innovation or at least get youstarted as a part of it.
So, katie, closing thoughts,man.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I would, just I would , on the specially for both,
I'll say help it, help you,don't be afraid of it, don't,
don't run away from it.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's right.
Don't get rid of the ego.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah, it's going to take my job.
It's like no, no, like, let ithelp your job for now.
Right, give it the context,help it innovate.
I think that Christmas story isjust perfect.
Right, you helped it innovate.
Marketers help, let it help youinnovate.
Let it help you innovate.
I think that's the biggesttakeaway is, you got to find a
way to leverage this, but Iposted about this a couple of
(31:43):
months ago.
Now it's like it's the humansthat are the best at what they
do that will be able to leverageAI the best, because if you're
a great product leader, you havethe context no one does it and
you know how to get it toinnovate.
If you're a great marketer, nowyou have the context that
others want to help it innovate.
Embrace it.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
I think for a lot of people that struggle I think a
lot of people will fail isbecause the ego.
Well, if I use technology, it'scheating.
If I use this and it's probablymade this analogy it's probably
the same thing people said whenGoogle came about.
And you're like, well, I wassupposed to go to the library
and I got to read a book.
You know like I need to.
I need to go to LexisNexis, andyou know LexisNexis back in the
(32:24):
day, you know Alexis Nexus backin the day.
Um, and this is just the nextiteration of how we solve
problems.
And so get rid of the ego thatit's about getting it right, not
being the.
You know you're going to getcredit for getting it right.
Um, as a part of this and forme, I've always been I care
about the outcome and if Iwhatever helps me to generate
the best outcome, you know yougot it.
You got to embrace it.
So, um, yeah, man, thanks forjoining us everyone.
Uh, make sure, if you haven'tsigned up for the newsletter.
(32:45):
Uh, free resource goes a littlebit like nerdier on some of the
topics to where, if you'resomebody who wants to kind of
dive into more of, like, thelatest and greatest, the
newsletter is great for that.
Um.
A couple other links to checkout.
In the show notes as well, too,there's some different
workshops and things that wehave um available, so make sure
to go check those out.
And yeah, kd, another one ofthe books.
(33:06):
I'm excited, man.
All right y'all.
Thanks for tuning in, thanksfor joining us and we will see
you all in the next episode.
All right, what's up everyone, welcome.
Episode Numero Cinco weactually next month we're going
to Mexico City for spring break.
I'm pumped, man.
I just hear the best things.
Family trip to Mexico City yeah, they do have like a ridiculous
amount of Michelin star city.
(00:27):
Yeah, um, they do have like aridiculous amount of michelin
star uh restaurants.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Food in mexico city is amazing.
I'm pumped.
I'm so pumped you've been no,never.
That's my point.
I'm like I gotta go.
All right, I got, I got a listfor you.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
We love mexico.
Oh, dude, that makes me veryhappy.
Okay, all right, so I'll getthe list from you.
Um man, we got the super bowlcoming up valentine's day too,
for everybody, so shout out, umto I'm already using ChatGBT for
all the love notes.
That's right.
Little love notes.
Man, did ChatGBT help me onChristmas?
Yeah, man, let's be honest, Idon't know if my wife listens or
(00:54):
not.
Maybe she does.
It came up with this idea.
It's like what would be a greatpresent for my kids?
Here are the ages of my kidsfor my wife.
So kids for here are the agesof my kids for my wife.
So listen to this.
So, uh, mommy, daughter photoshoot fuck no brainer.
Uh, time capsule for your sonand your mom for his high school
graduation.
My goodness, I'm like.
Goodness, I'm like done, okay,done like.
(01:19):
These are the best I did.
Oh, um, if she has a garden,paint a workbench for her, for
the garden.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I'm melting right now .
Speaker 1 (01:28):
All of these have been purchased.
All of those were purchasedHome runs, so that was fantastic
.
So last week's or a few weeksago episode why generic AI is
not always your best friend andhow easy it is to get started
with custom GBTs so hopefullyeveryone got a lot of value out
of that and you know.
Today, look, we're going totalk about not just you know our
(01:49):
normal sales topics.
We're actually going to talkabout marketing and product
teams and how they should bethinking about generative AI and
what are some of the trendsthat we think it means for them
and, obviously, the impact onsales, right.
So we're always going to try tobring it home to you know how
this is going to impact you.
But if you're a marketer, ceo,entrepreneur, product manager,
et cetera, I think you're goingto forward this over, if you're
not, to your marketing orproduct team, because I think
(02:11):
this episode is going to givethem a ton of kind of
interesting insights into howteams are and can be using
generative AI.
So it should be a good one.
All right, kd, as usual, everyweek we've got a, or every every
episode we've got a DM questionof the week and it says I'm a
small business owner and I'mcurious how can I use generative
AI to write my website copy andproduct descriptions?
(02:33):
I'm not sure where to start andI think if you're in sales, you
can think about what's theapplication for you.
You know, maybe you want it tohelp you write a pitch or
whatever it is, but how wouldyou answer this small business
owner?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So I love this.
I mean, I've sold SMB for thelast seven, eight years now, so
I love this space.
The easiest way to get startedis to find websites you like.
So find websites that you like,what are other ones in your
space, in your industry oroutside your industry, but like
top performing companies orwebsite, and take theirs as
(03:06):
inspiration.
You can feed that into chat,gpt.
So I want you to review thesewebsites, right, so it gives
some context.
Then, from there, I would liketo write my website modeling,
very similar copy, style,spacing, et cetera.
Here's what I do, right, andthen then give your website, but
then, before you ask it towrite the copy, ask it to.
(03:28):
Now I would like you to ask mea few more questions to get a
better idea of what I do and whoI sell to before you write the
copy.
So I'd start there and thenit's gonna start to spit
everything out.
And then you actually you gavethis tip a few episodes ago and
I was like I had never thoughtabout that of like telling it to
like try a little bit harder.
(03:49):
Yeah, I thought it was so cleverof like okay, that's good, now
try a little bit harder toreally connect with my audience
X, y, z, but that'd be theeasiest.
Give it websites that you dolike, ask it to interview you a
bit more about your customer,who you serve, why you do what
you do.
Get the website copy and thenfrom there ask it to try a
little bit harder, connect alittle bit more emotionally with
(04:11):
maybe who you sell to orwhatever your service is, and
boom you'll you'll have anamazing website.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
That's right.
And I think, on the productdescriptions, you take a very,
very similar approach, right, ifyou're trying to get it to talk
about the product.
You know.
Very similar approach, right,if you're trying to get it to
talk about the product.
You know, you know great.
So here's what this thing does,you know make it really
interesting for a CFO, make itreally interesting for a COO.
(04:38):
Do this.
And then and what I always do,you know I do this all the time
we use chat DBT for some of theshow notes here it's like make
it more provocative, make itmore this, make it more this.
I mean, I constantly I'll askChatGBT for concepts and I'm
like give me three complete wildcards that were like so,
because, by the way, chatgbt'sversion of provocative is like
PG to PG-13, somewhere in there.
(05:00):
So you kind of got to push it alittle bit.
Look, I understand those arethe safe and that's what I'll do
.
Like that, those sound likesafe descriptions.
Give me a radically persuasiveflavor of this too.
And, yeah, I can just do it foryou.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
One of my favorites to add when I'm doing marketing
copy is to give it marketers.
I respect so some of the bestcopywriters of all time right,
the Dan Kennedy's, the EbenPagan's, the Ryan Dice's of the
world.
Gary Halbert, I want you to beinspired by Gary Halbert and Dan
Kennedy when you write this,and it changes the whole dynamic
(05:37):
.
So go give it good copywritersto imitate and it'll run with it
.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
That's right and I think a lot of this is.
You're a small business owner,owner or anyone just make sure
that you're pushing it.
You know you don't need to talkto it like Google.
You need to be specific.
You need to say exactly whatyou want and say it different
ways and try it different waysand you know.
And then and then eventuallyyou start to learn these little
hacks of like how to how to pushit.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
So but keep it going.
Small business owner Keep going.
You're already ahead of thegame.
If you're thinking about itthis way, I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So, all right, man, let's jump into it.
Talk a little marketing, talk alittle product here.
You know, look, I think, look,generative AI is certainly
coming for some roles inmarketing.
And look for me, man, kind ofthe first application I see for
a lot of I call it AI companiesis around copywriting and tone
matching.
You know, I did a talk back inOctober last year and you know,
(06:29):
ok, have any of you createdcustom in GPT's marketer raises
her hand.
She's like yeah, we fed it.
Like you know, 35 of our blogposts to do tone, and she's like
it's awesome.
So, like, how much of marketing?
Look, we talked about salesenablement to you know a few
episodes ago.
How much of marketing in thefuture do we think gen AI can
either augment or replace?
Because I mean, look, thinkabout it.
(06:50):
We're already using it todesign these customized
experience.
You talked about the websitecopy.
You know, optimizing real time.
So so what's the limit here?
Oh, boy, and I'm not gonna saywhat's the limit in three years,
Because who the hell knows,hell knows, but what's the limit
like in 2025?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
So in 2025, I think people are actually going to be
very surprised how high thelimit is, and the reason for
this is because marketers,historically, are significantly
better testers than sales teams.
Agreed.
It's easier to test inmarketing and so what they have
access to, data wise, is unreal,right From click tracking to
(07:28):
eyeball tracking, to clickthrough rates, to scroll time
bounce.
They've split tested fivedifferent headlines, so I
actually think it's easier I'llsay in quotes to actually now
extrapolate that because thedata is so much more specific
and it involves data and humanbehavior.
Where do people look on thewebsite?
Where do they stop?
(07:49):
Well, if I built an app thatsaid, okay, where do people stop
scrolling?
They stop scrolling here.
Well, now I know I need to putsome sort of hook there that
would keep people going.
Right, the ability to createcustom potential websites we're
doing all this inbound, outboundstuff right now.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So content-wise, it's already really, really there
and so do you think of it as socontent?
You know the people that arecontent, or seo blog.
You know, would you know is it?
You know we still need thosepeople, but you know
productivity is going to be, youknow, 3x.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Oh, absolutely Productivity, and you actually
mentioned it on an earlierepisode of.
Like you know, not only does AIlet you do more, but if you're
doing it right, it lets you todo more and better.
Yeah, right, whereas I canlearn from the best out there
and create some of this copy, Istill think for 2025, it still
needs human oversight, totallyFor sure.
It needs recycling, for sure.
(08:45):
There's so many examples ofcompanies that are like oh, seo,
so they made all these aigenerated like content and it
like ranked them early and thenit got smashed, yeah, by google
and punished.
Don't do that.
Don't just go and generate like3 000 articles and think you're
good, like we still need humanoversight there.
But I mean, the content can andshould be better.
It should be able to do moretailored content to your
(09:07):
personas, because that's where Ithink most companies at least.
With blog content it's alwaysvery generic, whereas, like if
you had a blog, whatever say yousold to sellers and sales
leaders and marketers, you coulddo different types of content
for each really super quicklyand then take the data.
What are people downloading?
Okay, splinter that.
(09:27):
Okay that one's not landing.
Okay, splinter that.
And we can actually nowsplinter the content, which I
also think is going to be a very, very big use case.
And you know, I think I'llthrow this one back to you
around.
Like creativity, you know,people are like, oh, like,
humans are creative.
Ai is not.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I don't know if I agree with that.
I mean, would I have came upwith a time capsule for my son
to give my, to create with mywife to open together eight
years later?
Uh, no, no.
And that is a.
It is a ridiculously good idea.
That's so great, you know.
So, um, yeah, I think on that.
I think that's so great, youknow.
So, um, yeah, I think on that,I think that's a really good
call.
On the marketing side, you knowagain, is I think the brand
(10:08):
strategy, the creative, the, thedifferent takes to also just
brainstorm and ideate.
You know, around differentcampaign, hey, campaigns, you
know, here's our highestperforming things.
This is what's worked.
This is what hasn't worked.
Here's the data.
You know, if you want to createa custom GPT, you could, but
you know what are two or threebreak the bank ideas that can
make all of this better.
Now, get wilder, get morecreative.
(10:29):
Now give me this.
I mean, we literally created anew product for this year called
, you know, we started to talkabout hey, here's the goals for
our company, this is our goalsfor our consulting, here's some
of the challenges that we'rebetter package and it's like
push.
I was like more, like that'snot provocative enough, like
that will resonate with PEs, andjust push.
And we've created a whole newproduct called revenue health as
(10:49):
a service, which is just, Ididn't come up with our has.
I mean, they came up with ourhas, revenue health as earth.
And I'm like, oh, my god, thisis exactly what we've been
trying to to to think about islike this idea that you need to,
on a quarterly basis, belooking at these kind of key
five metrics and constantlydeploying fixes to your sales
org, and it's resonating.
And so, to me, if you're amarketer, there's no shame in
(11:13):
this.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
No, I would be leaning into this heavily and
again, as I was saying, theopener marketers have so much
more and better data thansellers do.
If I know what my top keywordsearches are, I can do a lot of
of that from a marketingstandpoint from ads to content,
to videos, to images, to ebooks,to whatever else like.
There's so much that can bedone with that and this will be
(11:36):
for a whole nother episode.
But even with where outbound isgoing like outbound, almost
turning into like an outboundmarketing channel for most
people it is.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
It's like we've had people that you know we're doing
all these, you know sales, loft, outreach implementations and
and they really just want to useit like hubspot.
And I'm like no, no, no, likewell, the sales reps are
incentivized to just close itand you're like, well, you
should actually be using yourmarketing automation platform
for that.
You know, and I saw here, likeyou know, coca-cola, for example
, like they're already using aifor automating ad creation.
(12:07):
Right, here's the data, here'swhat's working.
Social media content commercial.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Actually, it was the first time I've seen it where I
actually said created with real.
It was like real ai or realmagic ai, like it was actually.
Oh, did it really actually saidit in the commercial?
Like it was in the bottom andthen it was like how they like
wrapped up the commercial.
I saw it for the first timeever.
I was like ooh, is that howit's going to have to be?
Do we have to say that it wascreated?
Maybe, but the commercial waspretty dang good.
(12:34):
And you're like whoa, you know.
So I just I think marketersbecause they have so much data
that they can leverage aroundwhat I love about marketing If I
wasn't in sales, I'd be inmarketing, I would be there.
They have data on what humansdo when not observed.
Sellers we only get theobservation, what you said to me
(12:54):
while I'm there.
Marketers know what people areactually searching for.
Marketers know what people areactually reading.
Marketers know whether asmiling face or a sad face
drives more.
Marketers know three productsversus two products.
They're testing everything.
I think if you are doing wetalk about context a lot here
Marketers that have the contextoh my God, they can do so much
(13:15):
with this.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, I think, if I think about marketing, where I
think it's going to beinteresting is your
opinion-based marketers.
You're like, well, your contenthas to have the.
Again, you talked about theenemy of getting shit done is
trying to be great andperfection.
There's like 50 versions ofthat.
You know.
I see a lot of marketers wherethey're so focused on this and
(13:39):
the brand guidelines and that,this and that, and it's like why
are you focusing on thesethings?
Like you should be focused onlearning, using data and, again,
making more data-basedincisions.
Not trying to feel like youropinion should be the guiding
light, and I I think you knownot that sales and sales leaders
have the same problem.
Um, but I I feel like that'sthe danger for a lot of
marketers.
(14:00):
If you look yourself in themirror, are you the kind of
marketer who is like, you know,yeah, this all makes sense, but
the human needs to do that, andthat's you know, coca-cola is a
good example.
It's like, um, they're, theyhave a creative team that
remains for, like, oversight anddirection.
So we're not talking abouteliminating this, but, again,
like the quality of production,how many things you can put out.
You know the creativity piecesit's just going to.
(14:22):
It's just better that the combois just better.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, and that's what we talked about, actually, the
last episode.
The difference we like customand generic that's why Coca-Cola
still has the team over it isit can prompt all day long like
here's what we want thecommercial to be and you're
going to get version one.
World-class marketers will knowwhat to say.
Back to say okay, no, no, no,no she needs to be smiling.
We actually want a better blendbetween this, that and the
(14:45):
other than it goes off and does.
Right, so it's still thatcontext coming from humans in
2025.
But, oh boy, 2026, 2027, youknow, like, because we've talked
about this, this is actuallywhen we're doing the webinar
series of like content, like ifyou have a content team, ai is
going to get pretty dang closeto being able to do that by the
(15:05):
end of 2025 of like a contentfocused marketing team and the
ones that are good at it,they'll be able to leverage it.
But it's going to.
It's absolutely going to knockthose things out, from eBooks to
downloads, to web pages, toblog articles, to ad creation,
(15:25):
like all that is content backedby thousands actually it'd be
millions of data points forcontext.
That's quick iterations all daylong.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It can do it, yeah, and then again, like you can
create custom GPTs to quicklyget it to know your tone much
faster.
Or, you know, you can thinkabout creating it, for you know,
each of your executives hastheir own custom GPT for
creating content based on theirpreferences.
So I think there's just a lotof applications here for people
that are trying to think abouthow to supercharge marketing.
You know, five years from now,you still have lots of humans.
(15:54):
Five years from now, you stillhave lots of humans.
But as we start to blend contextwith data and the ability,
where generative ai is not, isit?
You can't really look at allthe data together and go deep on
the inferences.
You know, like it's okay at itright now, but five years from
now, if this is where we're at,like the ability to look at the
context that it's been given,the historical trends and then
making more and morerecommendations based on
(16:16):
improved context, that you'regiving it as the marketer, and
utilizing the data in real timeto not make, you know, well, if
you talk 12% less, you'll dothis.
I mean, we're going to getthere.
And so, as you as a marketer,you know it's interesting you
talked about hiring in the lastepisode, a role for GTM.
I think every marketing personshould hire that too Of like,
(16:37):
hey, what are the custom GPTs weshould be creating?
How can we augment?
You know Jake's job to do more.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
That role for me is a no brainer for marketing and I
wish I knew what to call thisrole, but like it is because,
also for me as the CRO, thisrole is touching marketing too,
right?
Because marketing roles to me,CS roles to me, sales role to me
.
This marketing is GTM too.
This role is looking there aswell and going, okay, what are
we learning from marketing?
(17:04):
Even like I talked about this along time ago of like how I
leverage inbound for outbound,right?
So when I'm building anoutbound motion, the first place
I look is the inbound side.
If we have an inbound motion atall, it's like, okay, what are
the highest click through ads?
What are the short form andlong tail keywords?
What are our most viewed blogpages?
(17:25):
And I'm using that to craft myoutbound strategy.
If I know what people aresearching for, that makes a
really good subject line orfirst sentence.
And if I know what our highestperforming headlines are on ads,
I know that makes a really goodhook within the email.
And if I know what personas areinbounding the most on our
(17:45):
website, I know who to targetoutbound.
So I leverage inbound heavilyto build an outbound motion.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Now I can do that all together which is just going to
be wild, and you can use it tocreate, to improve inbound.
Once you see the nuance and, bythe way, I don't think very
many sales and marketing teamsare doing any of this at all Get
them on level, you know.
Yeah, I think it's like bothcan inform both.
How many marketing teams aregoing and looking at the
outbound sequence performanceand saying like, oh, okay, that
(18:15):
hit.
And then vice versa, how manySDR leaders are going.
So I, like, I love that idea.
Let's talk product man.
Let's talk about the influenceon product team.
You know, can AI, you know,innovate faster than a human
product?
You know, and you know, I see,you know, like you mentioned
this, I can see where people areclicking, I can see where
(18:35):
they're scrolling, I can do allthose things.
And you know, obviously, look,I think most product teams are
doing a flavor of that.
But like, isn't there a worldwhere it's doing a ton of the
heavy lifting, where it's like,let me, like, you know, this is
how people are using yourapplication, for example, like
they did this, they did this,they did this.
Nobody is looking at thisfeature.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Like nobody is doing this, this, this and this, so
like, so so this one and anyonethat's worked with me knows like
I'm a word stickler, so I'mgonna call it a word in this
question and I think it mightchange the direction.
Do I believe it will innovatefaster than a human product team
?
I don't yet, because even theexamples you gave were reactive
(19:13):
to me.
Innovation is creating thingsthat have not been done, for I
think it can build faster,potentially, than a human yeah,
optimize what's known faster,okay, no one's using the, I
think it can but innovate.
I don't think next year it'sgoing to innovate faster than a
human team can it use thecreativity though, couldn't it?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I mean, can it, if you think about the combo of the
two here's?
Here's what's working, man.
What are some things that wecould build, create, create or
innovate?
Um, that could improve that weshould be adding to our product
roadmap that we're not thinkingabout.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah.
So that's where you know, if welisten to customers like that's
what I want to use it for, evenwith my own teams, is like go
go to product and say here'swhat customers are saying yeah,
the the product.
(20:11):
Here's what they're saying oncalls where they're not moving
forward, where they're sayinglike one of the things I love to
look for in transcripts is thephrase if you just, if you just
had, if you just could, if youwere just able to.
I love to find that intranscripts because that's
customers telling us If youcould just connect to X, y and Z
, a human still would have totell AI to look for those things
.
Sure.
So the nuance here is I don'tknow if it will innovate faster,
but do I believe it can suggestI do?
(20:34):
Do I believe it can actuallymake changes if I tell it what
to look for?
Hey, if no one's doing x, y andz, let me know.
Let me know, I absolutely thinkit can do that.
I don't know.
On the new opportunities, I'mcurious your take there of like,
actually, without someonetelling it, obviously, if I tell
it to, if I say, hey, what aresome what you're so good at
(20:54):
asking it questions, I wouldn'teven think to ask about.
I was like, hey, we'restruggling in these areas, we
deal with these people.
I want to create a new productover here.
That is innovation that youcaused.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, you led the innovationfrom there.
What was it?
Bhas or something?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
RHAS, rhas.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Revenue Health as a Service Right.
It created it, but you let itthere through the questions.
So I'm curious your take on itsability to create opportunities
versus just identify placesthat are lacking.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Well, I mean, I think you could create a custom GPT
and you told it its job was tobe challenging and to be, you
know, be provocative and to bethese things.
I think you could take the bestparts of brainstorming and
white white whiteboarding and Ithink, hypothetically, not a
hundred percent, and but again Ithink that that that's kind of
(21:48):
my thought on this question is,I think, a lot like marketing.
I think it's there's going tobe a layer of product right,
because also, you, you know howthis is sometimes people think
they want to whatever and a lotof people are like, oh well, if
you did this and people, I meanyou probably still wouldn't, you
know, churn or you wouldn't buymore.
So I think there's a human inthe loop, but I think we could
get there.
I think it could help toinnovate and like help with
(22:10):
creativity and you could, Ithink you could create a custom
GPT.
Maybe that would help innovate,maybe, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Product leaders.
I'd be curious to hear fromy'all on this, because there's
like, as a GTM leader, likewe're thinking about this all
day, like how to do these things.
I'd be curious with that wordinnovate, like what y'all think
it can or can't do aroundinnovation, because I do think
if you give it the prompts, itcould help you do those things,
but I'm not sure yet where thatwill go, because we're already
(22:41):
seeing product headcount isshrinking, product job ads are
shrinking.
Like AI is showing up a lothere on the product side in
terms of you know, some of theAI agents and the creation, and
you actually just mentionedsomething there Very interesting
.
This is my biggest fear by thecreation, and you actually just
mentioned something there veryinteresting.
This is my biggest fear.
By the way, we'll just pull itall open here around ai is at
what point do I stop buyingthings because I can build it
(23:03):
internally, right, and so youmentioned right now, customers
say if you had this feature, Iwould stay at what point?
Is it so easy to do some ofthis that I go, I wake up and
like I'm working on this rightnow?
We're still early.
It was like god, I just need anagent that's going to inspect
pipeline, the way I wouldinspect pipeline.
(23:24):
Look for these things.
Bubble this up, xyz.
Instead of googling productdeal management inspection tool,
I build it.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Oh, that'll happen, you know what like this is my,
this is my a lot of niche.
If you're a niche gtm or aniche software that solves one
specific thing, that's notproviding any type of
proprietary insights, yeah it'smy biggest.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
It's my biggest, I don't knows.
And what ifs around sales andai over the next five years is
what happens when teams canbuild their own internal tools.
And what does that look likewhen I can say here's exactly
what I need and the systems Ineed it to connect to and what I
want it to do and what it needsto look like and who needs to
have access to it and how secureit needs to be, and it goes
(24:10):
cool and it goes off and build.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, or what will have to happen if you think
about most of the tools you buy.
They have no context.
When you buy outreach, when youbuy insert tool gong, whatever,
it has no context.
And so imagine if it's likewell, this is some generic thing
, there's this company as a callrecording API and I can just
(24:34):
program in all the context.
It'll probably immediately bebetter.
And again, and you have peoplewho are these GTM support people
, you know, if you guys haveseen a tool called make, for
example, you know Brian on ourteam isn't like a technical, you
know guru, but with make he'slike well, I, just he, literally
(24:54):
.
We have a dev firm that's beenworking on this journey, a
product that we had our callthem on Tuesday and 24 hours
Brian had used make.
He had inserted the custominstructions.
We already had had a hundredpercent perplexity in make,
verse, um uh, chat, gbt, etcetera, and it immediately
solved it.
The dev team had taken 45 daysto and brian got there in 24
(25:16):
hours.
And so, yeah, I think theability to provide context with
development and productdevelopment, I think is is where
it's at yeah, it's going to bevery, very interesting to see,
because the flip side is alsotrue.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
It's like oh, if it just had this feature, I'd stay.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
If that could be a 24-hour turnaround, if that
could be yeah, exactly, you knowwhatever else there I could
just spin it up and great.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Oh hey, jake, you have this feature yeah, there,
it is like because what I wantand this will sound creepy, but
people understand why I want itI want to have, okay, like uh,
y'all don't hate me for this,you'll know why.
I'm saying this like anobservation bot, like watching
my reps work, but it's not bigbrotherish chill I mean, it
sounds a little just let mefinish the thought.
(26:00):
It's not to see what they arearen't doing or like punish them
for things.
You see, like where could atool step in and help?
Yeah, that's a no-brainer.
Whereas, like it pops, I waslike, hey, did you realize that
there's seven steps to close outan opportunity I built a one
click takes the tall da, da, dada and it closes it.
Like I want to observe, whereare there manual steps that a
(26:21):
tool could step in to do it?
That's what I want to observe.
Or when I did this at my lastcompany, we built, you know, a
tax GPT because, like there werethe constant questions getting
asked every single day aboutdifferent FAQs, whatever else.
I'd love that to be in asked.
So here it is.
(26:42):
We've built this out.
It's preemptive, it's rightthere, like that's what.
That's why I want to observe myreps more.
It's because I know there'splaces I could build things, oh
man, that I just I just don'teven know yet, like I just don't
even know what could behappening.
That's why I want to observe.
It's not just a catch no, I getit.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
You're like yeah, johnny, why didn't you say this?
Speaker 2 (26:57):
that's not what I'm going.
That's why I don't.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
I'm not a big fan of those like co-pilot, ai things,
that where it's like it pops up.
Oh, they mentioned zendesk.
So now, johnny, here's yourbattle card.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Say this and reps are like ignore, like I'm not which
, which is crazy to me, becausethey should want to have those
things, but the use case hasalways been nobody, and it's a
why, like you did, like someonejust mentioned the top
competitor and here's the bestway to handle that competitor,
but then people still don't.
You know it's tough why, likeyou did, like someone just
mentioned the top competitor andhere's the best way to handle
that competitor, but then peoplestill don't.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
You know it's tough to do in real time.
I think I think a lot of thatis.
It's just tough to be presentin a conversation.
I got asked this question on apodcast last week, or maybe it's
a few weeks ago now, aboutthese bots, and I said you know
what the real thing is.
Train your freaking reps onwhat a buyer cares about and
your main competitors.
That's the real solution.
Anyway, I digress.
(27:49):
So, product, my friends, youknow Spotify is already doing
some of this stuff.
Spotify is, you know, havingthey've got large data sets
right.
You know hundreds of millionsof users.
You know, hey, this is working,this is not.
They're doing that, they'rehaving it evaluated.
And you know from a productstandpoint.
Then you know they're sittingon top and their product team is
like, ok, bad idea, good idea.
So I think a lot of this is thesame with marketing.
(28:10):
You have to be using it.
You have to integrate productimprovement.
You know, using AI, you knowgenerative AI, right, like, you
have to have this to move fasterto to as opposed to.
You know, yes, yes, listen tocalls um.
But also to your point aboutsearch and and what people are
doing it's like it's also whatthey're doing unobserved yes,
(28:31):
you know versus what they thinkthey need.
Or you know the executivesponsor is telling us we need
this, but when you click or youlook at the clicks, they aren't
acting like they need that.
They're actually like this.
So it's this combination oflike human element, of like
qualitative inspection coupledwith the data.
So you know, my feedback islook, if you're a product leader
, you have to incorporate this.
(28:53):
Yeah, you can.
Just you'll be able to move somuch faster as a part of this,
even at the most basic level oflistening to a bunch of sales
calls and product listen to CScalls.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Yeah, just like, what are people saying on these QBRs
?
What are the support ticketscoming through?
Let it run through the lastthousand support tickets and see
what are people complainingabout, about your own product.
Start there of like, what arepeople asking for?
What are people saying isbroken?
What are those things comingthrough?
Cause there's always therealways seems to be that big
communication divide betweenproduct and customer facing.
(29:25):
Always, because there alwaysseems to be that big
communication divide betweenproduct and customer-facing
teams.
And I think this is the easiestway to start is to bridge that
gap.
Yeah, get what the customersand the prospects are saying in
front of product to let them seethis and go oh, we can do
something about that.
This was two companies ago atPatientBot where this happened,
(29:45):
where there was just a constantcomplaint coming through and
product had no idea about it.
It actually came up kind of inpassing.
I was talking with one of ourVPs of engineering and I was
like, yeah, someday you'll fixthat.
They're like wait, what Right?
I was like, well, no, thecustomers hate this.
It drives them nuts.
It's one of the biggest reasonswhy people are freaking out.
(30:05):
It's like we could fix that.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, you're like that's easy In a week.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
That's right, they just had no idea about it.
So just bridge that gap forcomms.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
But you could, I mean .
My guess is, though, had theyimplemented AI?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
We didn't have to.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, exactly, they probably could have now known
that a lot faster.
You know, like, hey, why arepeople well, it seems like
consistently people click thisand then, within two seconds,
they then click this to go back.
That's something that you couldsee now.
So I think that that's thefuture there.
So, all right, productmarketing, product and marketing
(30:41):
and product marketing.
Hopefully you all have sometakeaways on some things that
you can do.
The answer, as usual, is youneed to start to do something
now.
My marketers think content andyou know, can you optimize the
quality and quantity of yourteam product?
How can you use it to start tomake improvements faster and
identify improvements faster?
(31:02):
And, you know, maybe, maybe,help a little bit with
innovation or at least get youstarted as a part of it.
So, katie, closing thoughts,man.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I would, just I would , on the specially for both,
I'll say help it, help you,don't be afraid of it, don't,
don't run away from it.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's right.
Don't get rid of the ego.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah, it's going to take my job.
It's like no, no, like, let ithelp your job for now.
Right, give it the context,help it innovate.
I think that Christmas story isjust perfect.
Right, you helped it innovate.
Marketers help, let it help youinnovate.
Let it help you innovate.
I think that's the biggesttakeaway is, you got to find a
way to leverage this, but Iposted about this a couple of
(31:43):
months ago.
Now it's like it's the humansthat are the best at what they
do that will be able to leverageAI the best, because if you're
a great product leader, you havethe context no one does it and
you know how to get it toinnovate.
If you're a great marketer, nowyou have the context that
others want to help it innovate.
Embrace it.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
I think for a lot of people that struggle I think a
lot of people will fail isbecause the ego.
Well, if I use technology, it'scheating.
If I use this and it's probablymade this analogy it's probably
the same thing people said whenGoogle came about.
And you're like, well, I wassupposed to go to the library
and I got to read a book.
You know like I need to.
I need to go to LexisNexis, andyou know LexisNexis back in the
(32:24):
day, you know Alexis Nexus backin the day.
Um, and this is just the nextiteration of how we solve
problems.
And so get rid of the ego thatit's about getting it right, not
being the.
You know you're going to getcredit for getting it right.
Um, as a part of this and forme, I've always been I care
about the outcome and if Iwhatever helps me to generate
the best outcome, you know yougot it.
You got to embrace it.
So, um, yeah, man, thanks forjoining us everyone.
Uh, make sure, if you haven'tsigned up for the newsletter.
(32:45):
Uh, free resource goes a littlebit like nerdier on some of the
topics to where, if you'resomebody who wants to kind of
dive into more of, like, thelatest and greatest, the
newsletter is great for that.
Um.
A couple other links to checkout.
In the show notes as well, too,there's some different
workshops and things that wehave um available, so make sure
to go check those out.
And yeah, kd, another one ofthe books.
(33:06):
I'm excited, man.
All right y'all.
Thanks for tuning in, thanksfor joining us and we will see
you all in the next episode.
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