Episode Transcript
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UNKNOWN (00:01):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (00:12):
Greetings! Today is
August 27th and I'd like to pick
up from where I left off in thelast episode of the Alaska
Climate and Aviation podcastwith the topic being the Arctic
Encounter.
For a quick review, the ArcticEncounter was held in Anchorage,
Alaska this past summer fromJuly 30th to August 1st at the
(00:35):
Denina Center.
On the second day of the Arcticencounter, a session held on
strategic ground Greenland inthe center of Arctic geopolitics
brought together leaders fromGreenland to discuss the
sovereignty and independence anddesires of Greenlandic people.
(00:56):
There's been a lot of discussionof Greenland in the news with
the recent discussion of whetheror not it could be purchased by
another governing body such asthe United States.
Well, senior news anchor LibbyCasey moderated this panel and
the people that were on thepanel included Miss Aki Matilda
who is a member of Parliament ofGreenland She is also the member
(01:21):
of the Danish Parliament andchair of the Arctic delegation.
Mr.
Kuno Funker, the member ofParliament of Greenland, was
also present, as well as Mr.
Mads Frederiksen, who is theexecutive director of Arctic
Economic Council of Norway.
Lastly, former commissioner ofthe U.S.
Arctic Research Commission, Mr.
(01:43):
Thomas Stans, was present.
For starters, in the discussion,there was discussion of what the
Greenlanders want for theircountry.
Apparently, there was a surveythat was passed around amongst
the people as well as theleaders, and Libby Casey asked a
few questions, and we get tohear what Aki Matilda had to say
(02:06):
about this survey.
SPEAKER_03 (02:08):
When Greenlanders
are polled, a majority say they
would like independence,although a little less than half
say they don't want it if itdecreases quality of life, which
I'd like to hear from you bothabout, Aki Matilda and Kuno,
about what that means.
But also...
Now the rep, am I pronouncingyour party so incorrectly, that
(02:29):
your party was excluded from thenew coalition government.
So how are you still working onthese issues and trying to make
sure that they're alsoevacuated?
SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
Well, thank you so
much for that question.
First of all, I was also in thatsurvey and I wanted to see how
it all worked out.
And there was a bit bias in thatsurvey that I really have to
recognize.
The survey said, do you want anattendance?
Yes or no?
Okay.
They said, yes.
Next question.
(02:58):
What if you died?
What if you became hungry?
Would you still want it?
I was like, of course not, butthat's not how we're going to do
it.
And I said, no, but I stillfight for independence.
So I'm just saying, be aware ofhow the questions are made as
well, because it's reallyimportant of these surveys if we
(03:19):
want to have a clearer view ofwhat the population of Britain
really wants.
That's the election.
So during the election, the twobiggest parties that were voted
in were the current governmentparty called DEMOKRATINS, which
means the Democrats, and thereare a liberal party, and NANAP,
(03:40):
which is us.
And you can say that we are kindof like a working class
indigenous party.
And both of these partiesactually went to the election
for the same issues, almostidentical, the same issues, even
about independence.
And what surprised us the mostwas perhaps how things shifted
(04:03):
after the election.
But that's a part of the debate.
But in that term, I will say, ifyou look at what was actually
talked about during the electiontimes, none of the Democrats
were agreeing on so many points.
I believe this is what theGreenlandic population wants.
SPEAKER_04 (04:20):
The next statement
is of Mr.
Kuno, who is also a member ofthe Parliament of Greenland.
SPEAKER_02 (04:26):
We want our own
sovereignty and create our own
cooperation with other countriesand other organizations.
SPEAKER_04 (04:38):
Aki Matilda
continues her thoughts on the
Greenlandic politicalsovereignty.
SPEAKER_00 (04:45):
I think it's very
important, first and foremost,
to say that when we look atthese conflicts that are all
around the world, they areusually created by these great
powers and great leaders, butwith a lot of big institutions.
And sometimes because they fillour media space so much, we
(05:05):
forget that it's all created bysingle individuals, people,
humans.
And when we usually meet thosehumans, we realize how much more
we have in common than whatdivides us.
When the United States havewanted to purchase Greenland, a
lot of Greenlandic people, ofcourse, were really hurt on the
(05:28):
inside.
But when we met a lot ofAmericans like you, Libby, like
Rachel, there were so many greatAmericans to actually talk to.
And the same goes with a lot ofthese great powers.
They have a lot of great peopleas well.
So I think it's It is importantto state that us in Greenland,
as indigenous people, we havealways stated that we're not
(05:51):
interested in trying to pick outthese competitions between the
big states and great powers andtrying to pick a side as such.
We want peaceful and respectfulcooperation with all partners,
but not in the cost of oursovereignty.
(06:12):
We are still not naive.
are still realistic and we doknow that we have to have close
cooperation with like-mindeddemocratic countries and this is
still a great importance of usbecause Greenland is just not a
pawn.
It's not like we are a passivesoul of a wilderness of no
people at all.
(06:33):
We are a political actor.
We are a people with our ownright and we want to be treated
as such and this is reallyimportant for us ongoing with
further international interestthat this is recognized
internationally, hence thepolitical sovereignty is
important for us.
SPEAKER_04 (06:56):
The discussion of
geopolitics of Greenland would
not be complete without touchingon a topic that in the past few
months, the conversation ofwhether or not Greenland could
be purchased by another country.
Libby Casey asked the questionto the panelists.
SPEAKER_03 (07:16):
Should the U.S.
pursue buying Greenland?
Aki Matilda?
SPEAKER_00 (07:22):
No, no country in
the world should be able to be
bought like that.
No people should be able to be
SPEAKER_02 (07:27):
bought.
Thank you.
Well, I'm saying it's not timeto be offended.
So we would like to seesolutions.
(07:49):
And of course, Greenland is notfor sale.
No country should be for sale orbe annexed or be taken over.
And we want to get out of theannexation of 1953.
Hence, we are not for sale.
We will not be annexed again.
So what I have seen here, wehave seen a lot of propositions
from Greenland, even the unionor even some kind of protocol
(08:10):
where Greenland is a sovereignstate.
The United States has come upwith a solution, eventual
solution, with a compact ofthree associations.
But we never hear from Denmark.
They just say, it's up to you.
It's up to the Greenlandicpeople.
But the Greenlandic people hasthe right to external
self-determination according toArticle 21 and also the Act.
(08:34):
But we are not...
The other parties in Greenlanddon't want to activate that.
I've been working on it foralmost three years, made a bill
in the Parliament of England,but nobody wants to do it.
Like the fear-mongering of themedia, especially the Danish
media and Danish scholars,Danish experts and so forth,
(08:59):
that are giving us a lot ofstatistical information of why
we would probably not have to dothis, why it would be better to
be a Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_04 (09:39):
Here are a few more
thoughts of Aki Matilda.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
means that we focus
on our people, that we focus on
the economy, but mostimportantly that we actually
focus on internationalrelations.
With you guys, everyone that'slistening here, we can create
cooperation not onlyeconomically, but also in terms
of security and how we can makethese stuff work.
If we look at some countries inthe world, there are some
countries that have even gainedpolitical independence with only
(10:04):
around 10,000 people.
So of course it's possible.
It's only about how we can makeit work.
We have to use our brains, butwe also have to to use our
strength.
I believe that the Greenlandicpeople, the Inuit people, are
usually being told that we aretoo quiet people, but that
(10:24):
should not be mistaken becausewe have proved that we can make
negotiations without dominancebut without submission as well.
And we can stand our ground butalso try to negotiate and be
willing to find solutionstogether.
SPEAKER_04 (10:49):
The former
commissioner of the U.S.
Arctic Research Commission, Mr.
Thomas Danz, enters theconversation.
SPEAKER_01 (10:59):
And I'm in politics.
You gave me too much time tothink.
So I've been thinking this isnot a question for Tom Danz.
It's a question for people ofGreenland and for the wealthiest
North American countries in theworld, the leader of that,
President Trump.
SPEAKER_03 (11:14):
Can I follow up with
you on that then, Tom?
You know, he's compared this toa real estate deal, but
territories and countries aren'tlike properties that are bought
and sold.
So in this day and age, it'slike post-colonial moment.
So how How do you respond tocriticism that that language is
not appropriate forinternational diplomacy and
(11:34):
trying to make deals?
SPEAKER_01 (11:37):
I can't respond to
the abstract about some of his
comments off him.
Well, it's not
SPEAKER_03 (11:42):
abstract.
It's like if he says, I want tobuy Denmark, if I want to buy
Greenland, I'm going to sendDenmark.
If I want to buy, that'll benext.
If I want to buy Greenland, it'snot abstract.
It's a true little thing thathe's talked about.
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
And
SPEAKER_03 (11:53):
he's the president,
so we have to take it seriously.
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
Of course, in the
book, the President Trump, look
at what he says and whathappens.
I mean, that should beinstructive to everyone.
So take the manager's word.
But, you know, we have to stepback and look at this in the
context of the bigger picture,which is the security that's
(12:18):
been provided by the U.S., as Isaid, since 1949 to 1940, and
basically still is.
And I think that Greenland'sFollowing
SPEAKER_04 (12:40):
those remarks from
Mr.
Thomas Danz, Mr.
Kuno Fenker, the Member of theParliament of Greenland,
comments...
SPEAKER_02 (12:51):
We know that we can
be politically independent.
We know that it's utopia to befully independent, but we need
cooperation.
We need to give out some of oursovereignty to bigger powers,
just like Denmark has given outsovereignty to the EU.
Hence, does it mean that theyare fully independent?
(13:12):
Probably not, when 80% of theirlaw is created by the EU.
So you can talk about politicalsovereignty and nation-building
Jakob Ispensen,
SPEAKER_04 (13:39):
who is head of the
representation to Greenland and
to Canada, shares his thoughtsto finalize the conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
For every people, I
guess, that is not something
that is controversial orsomething else.
That, of course, we want to havea say or we want to decide on
behalf of ourselves in mattersof general affairs or to develop
(14:13):
our own society.
And that is what we have beendoing for many, many years, what
our forefathers have been doing.
and fighting for it.
It's not something that has justbeen given by the Danes.
It's something we have discussedand developed together with
them, as I mentioned, back to1979 when they were granted home
rule.
(14:33):
And we have basically fulfilledall these areas.
We negotiated with the Danesagain to create a new framework
within the Kingdom of Denmarkwhich was granted us these
things that I mentioned before,the self-governance.
And last months, the primeministers of Denmark, Faroe
Islands and Greenland met inTorshavn, the Faroe Islands,
(14:55):
where they agreed that they willmodernize again the kingdom of
Denmark.
So I think that we have theexperience and witness by the
desire, by the will, by the wishfor the Greenlandic people that
we want more, that we want tohave more to say.
And that's how we have developedtogether with the things.
(15:17):
And I'm sure it will continue inthe So it's going to be exciting
to see what disagreement thatthey have that they have talked
about and how it will be in thefuture.
SPEAKER_03 (15:32):
Jaco, thank you so
much.
Head of Marine LandRepresentation to the United
States and to Canada.
We should mention that as well.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (15:44):
And that concludes
today's episode of the Alaska
Climate and Aviation Podcast.
And this was the ArcticEncounter panel discussion of
strategic ground, Greenland, andthe center of Arctic
geopolitics.
Thank you for tuning in.
I'm Katie Ryder, and have agreat rest of your week.