June 4, 2025 • 61 mins
What if the story of Noah's flood was derived from a much older tale where the gods destroyed humanity not because of sin, but because humans were too noisy? The Atrahasis, an epic inscribed on clay tablets dating back to 1650 B.C., reveals a startlingly different motivation behind the Great Flood than what most of us learned in religious education.
Discovered in the forgotten Library of Ashurbanipal among the ruins of ancient Nineveh, this Mesopotamian text describes how the gods created humans as laborers to dig irrigation channels and grow food for divine consumption. When humanity multiplied and became too loud, the irritated god Enlil attempted to exterminate them—first with disease, then with famine, and finally with a catastrophic flood. Meanwhile, the clever god Enki found loopholes to help humanity survive each crisis, eventually saving Atrahasis (the "exceedingly wise one") by speaking flood warnings to a wall while Atrahasis listened from behind a tent.
The parallels between Atrahasis and the Biblical Noah are unmistakable, yet the Sumerian version provides richer context about divine politics, the creation of humans, and the cosmic drama behind the flood. Scientific evidence supports the occurrence of significant flooding in Mesopotamia around 11,000-13,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age, suggesting these myths preserve cultural memories of real cataclysmic events that transformed ancient societies.
Most fascinating are the details absent from the Biblical account: how the gods actually needed humans for sustenance, how they limited human lifespan to just 120 years after the flood, and the suggestion that certain individuals like Noah/Atrahasis may have had unusual physical characteristics that set them apart. These elements hint at alternative interpretations through the ancient astronaut theory, where these "gods" might represent advanced beings with ability and knowledge that appeared divine to ancient peoples.
Whether viewed through a religious, historical, or alternative lens, these ancient flood myths offer profound insights into humanity's relationship with the divine and our understanding of catastrophic events that shaped civilization. Join us as we decode these remarkable stories that have endured for millennia, revealing the rich tapestry of human belief that lies beneath our most cherished religious narratives.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joe (00:02):
Hello and thank you for joining us on Alien Talk Podcast
.
This is the show where wediscuss all things about aliens
and UFOs and, as always, wherewe push the limits of our
understanding about subjectsthat pertain to the existence of
extraterrestrial intelligence,the presence of UFOs and perhaps
even the very meaning of lifehere on our noble planet.
We explore the mysteries of thecosmos and the enshrouded
(00:26):
secrets of our ancient history,constantly pondering what is out
there in the far reaches ofspace and asking questions about
what our ancestors reallyencountered and all of the
revered stories from the distantpast.
It's been a while since we'vebeen with you, but the last time
we were here on Alien TalkPodcast our previous episode we
(00:47):
had the distinct honor ofhosting Miles Spencer, the
author of the book A Line in theSand.
We were able to get in a prettyin-depth discussion with him,
in which we had descriptions andamazing insights into the
geographic, cultural andhistorical landscapes of the
Middle East, which, as we allknow, is the land of the Bible
(01:10):
and possibly the mostfascinating region on Earth.
Laurie (01:15):
Yeah, that was a really good discussion we had with him
and it was very thorough andall-encompassing and we touched
on a lot of things that weusually don't cover on this show
, such as, you know, the covertmilitary missions of T.
E.
Lawrence, the stories aboutWorld War I, the modern
political climate of the MiddleEast and even about some of the
(01:38):
food over there.
So, it was a bit of a change ofvenue for us.
I have to say that.
Joe (01:44):
It was, and I found it quite enjoyable and hopefully
all of you out there did as well.
So, if you remember, almost twomonths ago now, before we had
Miles on with us, we weretalking about something known as
the Enuma Elish, which is theBabylonian creation myth, which
many scholars believe is derivedfrom earlier Sumerian myth, the
(02:07):
Sumerian civilization beingsucceeded by the Akkadian,
Assyrian and Babylonian ones.
It is considered by mainstreamacademia to be the first
civilization on earth, evenpredating that of Egypt by
almost a thousand years.
That was brought up when wespent some time covering that
debate between Billy Carson andWes Huff, in which they got into
(02:31):
a heated discussion about thebiblical text and the other
ancient sources.
It was put on YouTube near thebeginning of this year and this
debate was lengthy and somemight even say it was a little
bit theatrical.
And this debate was lengthy,and some might even say it was a
little bit theatrical.
It was between the prevailingviewpoints of typical
denominational Christianapologetics and those of the
(02:52):
ancient astronaut theory, Huffbeing a well-known Bible scholar
and Carson an expert on themythological traditions of the
ancient world, the ancientMiddle East and many aspects of
the ancient alien hypothesis.
So, the Enuma Elish wasmentioned in that, and the Enuma
Elish to which it is alludedbears similarities to the
(03:21):
Genesis creation story in theJudeo-Christian canon, with
Genesis seeming to be like ashortened and more condensed
version of the overall scenarioportrayed in the Enuma Elish.
Now there is another piece ofmythology, also a Mesopotamian
origin, called the Atrahasis,that tells of humanity's
beginning and also presents anarrative about the flood, the
flood, the great flood, theflood of Noah, the flood, the
(03:44):
great flood, the flood of Noah.
Like the Enuma Elish, theAtrahasis seems to exhibit the
same literary devices that wefind within the story structure
of the book of Genesis.
The theme is basically the samethe gods create man and woman.
They disobey the gods and arepunished for it.
Humans then become too much forthe gods to tolerate, such that
they regret making them in thefirst place.
(04:05):
Then the gods decide thatmankind should be drowned in a
great big flood, and only a fewrighteous ones are permitted to
survive and eventuallyrepopulate the Earth.
Laurie (04:18):
Right, and I'm excited about this Atrahasis.
Just really, if you really payattention to you, you'll really
see the ancient avian connectionin this group of texts.
But, like the Enuma Elish, theAtraha sis was discovered from
clay tablets with Akkadiancuneiform script that dated to
(04:42):
around the same time period,which is around 668 to 627 B.
C.
, and European explorers foundit in the same forgotten library
of Assurbanipal, among theruins of ancient Assyrian, the
city of Nineveh, which is modernday Iraq, and if you remember
(05:04):
that, that city, Nineveh, whichis modern-day Iraq, and if you
remember that city, Nineveh,that's where Jonah had to go and
he refused to go down there andhe eventually got swallowed by
a whale.
But it is also believed to haveoriginated around 19th to 18th
century B.
C.
and it is the retelling of aneven older Sumerian story that
(05:26):
includes the gods Anu, Enlil,and Enki.
Now, we've definitely heard ofthem before, of course.
Zechariah Sitchin referenced itquite a bit in the Earth
Chronicles series, as it depictsa turmoil amongst the gods, the
Anunnaki, which is essential tothe most elaborate or the more
elaborate understanding of theancient astronaut theory, and as
(05:50):
he drew a very close parallelbetween the characteristics
revealed of the Anunnaki godswith that of extraterrestrial
beings.
The Sumerian language was notlike the other languages that
came after it, so the knowledgefrom the oldest civilization on
earth is preserved in theAkkadian script, the cuneiform.
(06:12):
When that was discovered Fromthere, it became evident that
everything about the Sumerianswas later passed on to another
Semitic language, hebrew, fromwhich we get the script for the
Bible.
Now, the Bible, of course, as weknow, mentions early on that
God sent the flood because hewanted man to be completely
(06:37):
eradicated from the face of theearth.
Why so?
The simple theological answeris because God was sick of
humans being so evil that heregretted creating them and
intended to form a new worldwith a new covenant with the
people on it.
One of many covenants that wesee were devised throughout
(06:57):
Scripture.
It plainly in Genesis 6 (06:57):
5-7 that the Lord saw that the human
beings on the earth were verywicked and that everything they
thought about was evil.
He was sorry he had made manand his heart was filled with
pain.
So, the Lord said I willdestroy all human beings that I
(07:20):
made on this earth, that I madeon this earth.
Now, on the other hand, thestoryline within the Atra Asis
provides a more dynamicbackground and explains that
there was a lot more drama to it.
And most of us know about thegreat flood from our religious
upbringings, in which we learnedabout the story of Noah's Ark
(07:42):
from the book of Genesis inchapters 5 through 9.
And we're all very familiarwith it.
And the biblical account was,or has you know, water covering
the entire planet, with dry landnot being exposed for something
like over a year, evenexceeding the tallest mountains
by 20 feet in depth.
It rained like for 40 days and40 nights, and, you know, after
(08:07):
the fountains of the abyss andthe floodgates of the firmament
were open to cause the water toprevail for 150 days.
So this gives the reader theimpression that water was
actually covering Mount Everestby 20 feet, and that seems
highly unlikely.
However, the story of the GreatFlood in the distant past is
found in nearly every religioustradition in one form or another
(08:30):
, and not only that, but thegods played some part in it, in
its cause and in humanity'seventual survival of it.
Joe (08:39):
Right and this flood myth is supported by some degree of
scientific evidence.
That's not to say that everypart of it is demonstrably true,
you know, with Noah's Ark andthe two of a kind of every
animal getting onto it and thedoves being released, and all
that.
But in terms of what has beendiscovered from geological,
oceanographic and climatologicalstudies, it could very well be
(09:03):
that when the Bible, and theQuran for that matter, says that
the whole world was flooded,that was referring to the entire
known world of the peopleliving in the ancient Middle
East.
It could be that there was atone time a massive deluge that
hit the whole Tigris-EuphratesValley like a big tsunami coming
from the Persian Gulf,Tigris-Euphrates Valley, like a
(09:23):
big tsunami coming from thePersian Gulf, and that would
have been devastating to anyurbanization and agriculture.
Such an occurrence could havebeen preserved in the literary
tradition of the Mesopotamianpeople in a way that suggests
that the entire earth was indeedcovered with water, when really
it was much more localized,nonetheless significant enough
(09:43):
to permanently alter ancientsociety and way of life,
especially when you considerthat most of the settlements and
villages built by people inancient times were close to
water sources.
I mean, look at the Tigris andEuphrates rivers that connect to
the Persian Gulf, which in turnconnects to the Arabian Sea and
the Indian Ocean.
So, this area of the MiddleEast was heavily populated with
(10:04):
cities and farmlands and if youlived there at the time, you
could easily refer to that asthe world from your perspective.
Anything beyond that would havebeen virtually unknown to most
of those living there, butregardless, there is some
evidence that shows there weresubstantial and sudden changes
in ocean levels and these werefound within rock strata that
(10:26):
day to the time, close to thePleistocene Ice Age, which was
the last big one in geologicalhistory, and it was about 11,000
to 13,000 years ago.
So, floods not a flood, butmany floods could have happened
when the Ice Age was ending fromchanges in global climate and a
(10:47):
tilting of the Earth's axis andthe shifting of its magnetic
field.
The Younger Dryas ImpactHypothesis has been put forth to
suggest that there was a rapidfluctuation in the temperatures
across the planet right afterthe last ice age of 11,000 to
(11:11):
13,000 years ago and that it wasdirectly related to some cosmic
event, possibly a meteorite, orpossibly for some large
celestial body passing closelyby and causing a cataclysmic
event, and actuallypaleontological studies of
crystalline mineral celestialbody passing closely by and
causing a cataclysmic event, andactually paleontological
(11:32):
studies of crystalline, mineraland rock formations have led to
the speculation that there weremany cataclysms throughout
Earth's history.
In Greenland they found a largecrater underneath the ice sheet
that was caused by a meteorite.
They believe it was a meteoriteimpacting there, which could
coincide with sudden climaticand hydrological changes near
(11:52):
the end of the Cretaceous period.
It's known as the HiawathaGlacier.
.
.
right.
I think I remember that wordbeing brought up here once
before, but that dates to about58 million years ago yeah and, I
don't believe that the wholeworld was flooded like you're
(12:12):
saying.
Laurie (12:13):
Um, you know you agree with that it was just for that
area localized.
But I mean, I believe the worldwas, the earth was covered at
one time at water, probably inin its early days, and I mean
early days, like 4 billion yearsago, when it possibly became a
remnant of that large planet,Tiamat, which was a water planet
(12:33):
.
So that, I think, was when thewhole world was covered in water
.
And then, of course, talkingabout the meteorites, the
asteroid that struck the YucatanPeninsula in Mexico 66 million
years ago is thought to havewiped out the dinosaurs and that
(12:54):
brought about significantchanges to the Earth's biosphere
and the entire course ofevolution.
So, yeah, evidence shows thatour planet is no stranger to
cataclysms, and it is not hardto imagine that stories about
them would become preserved inthese oral traditions, which in
(13:14):
turn would become passed down asteachings and then later still,
you know, become instilled intopeople as religious doctrines.
And it seems very probable,from what we know, this
narrative of a great flood, thatit would have ushered in a new
era with different climates,starker land features and higher
(13:37):
ocean levels and the Neolithicrevolution in which the human
race began to emerge from beinghunter-gatherers into forming
organized societies that usedtools and technology.
And according to ZechariahSitchin, all of this is because
a planet like Nibiru passedclosely by us.
This is what he postulated uponexamining the text from the
(14:01):
library of Nineveh.
The text from the Library ofNineveh.
So, with the Atrahasis the nameis actually that of a main
character in the story, and itmeans very wise one.
And this is told from theperspectives of the gods Anu,
enlil and Enki, and the rolesthat they play.
And there are four main themesto it.
(14:23):
First, you have thecollaboration of gods, who
introduced Mesopotamianagriculture, which would have
been around the time of thisNeolithic period.
Second, a political struggleamong them and Zacharias Sitchin
speaks about that in the bookcalled Wars of Gods and Men,
which was resolved by creatingthe first human couple.
(14:45):
And third, subsequent rapidreproduction of these humans.
And fourth, the great floodthat the gods intended to use as
a means to eliminate them.
So we can already see thesimilarities with the Bible.
So consider the opening phraseand read just the first portion
(15:06):
of Tablet 1.
And then, joe, you can pick upfrom there.
But when the gods, not men,performed the work, bore the
burdens.
The weight was too great, thework too taxing, a sore plight.
So the seven great Anunnakimade the Agigi to take the lobe.
The king was their father, Anu,their counselor of war was Elil
(15:30):
, the chamberlain Nimrod andtheir canal manager, Ennugi,
taking up the container, theycast lots.
The gods divided up so that Anutook his home in the heavens to
live in the sky, while Enlilwent to make his abode among the
men of earth and astute Enkiacquired for himself the entire
(15:55):
sea's creator.
After Anu was in the sky and theabsolute gods did the sin, then
the heavenly Anunnaki made theAgigi take the land, or take the
load that caused the gods tocarve out the many water canals.
They had to open up conduits,the sustenance of the level, I'm
(16:16):
sorry, sustenance of the land.
They caused the Agigi to carveout the many water canals.
They had to open up conduits,the sustenance of the land.
So the immortals carved out thechannel of the river Tigris and
the divinities carved out thechannel of the Euphrates, boring
a chamber at the lowest depths,sitting stians in the deep
(16:42):
waters of the Abzu, beneath thecovering of land.
They placed braces within,situating these to raise its
aloft, those which stand at thepeaks underlying all mountains.
And they kept track of everylong year that they worked.
The excess water drained downto fill up the great swamp, and
(17:03):
they kept track of every longyear that they worked and this
was 3,600 years in which theycarried the heavy loads.
So that's amazing, prettydetailed.
Joe (17:14):
Yeah, well, as you can see, there's much more detail than
Genesis.
Laurie (17:18):
Oh yeah.
Joe (17:19):
And yes, Atrahasis is the name of the protagonist in the
epic.
He was a priest and the king ofthe city-state of Shurrupak.
His name appears as one that ison the Sumerian king list and
his reign is believed to havecoincided with that of
Hammurabi's great-grandson,ammis-aduqa, who ruled from 1646
(17:41):
to 1626 B.
C.
Who ruled from 1646 to 1626 B.
C.
And the name of the guy in theflood story.
It does vary from source tosource, depending if it is
Babylonian, akkadian or evenUgaritic, which is from the area
of Lebanon.
For instance, the Epic ofGilgamesh mentions this great
(18:03):
king who survived, asUt-Napashtim, meaning he has
found life, and there'ssomething else called the Eridu
Genesis.
He is called Zirasudra.
It is also in the Sumerian kinglist and they're all pretty
much interchangeable titles,really actually Akkadian titles
for the same character, who ismost likely also the same as
(18:25):
that of the biblical Noah, whosename in Hebrew means rest.
Anyway, a copy of this epicalso exists in a later Assyrian
dialect, which was also found inAshurbanipal's library of
Nineveh.
Apparently, it is a difficulttext to translate as it is
pretty fragmentary.
It is a difficult text totranslate as it is pretty
fragmentary.
However, in the 1860s, britisharchaeologist George Smith
(18:48):
assembled the fragments to writehis work called the Chaldean
Account of Genesis and thenlater, german historian Heinrich
Zimmermann corrected the namein 1899 to Atrahasis.
Laurie (19:03):
And in 1965, Welford G Lambert and Ellen Millard
published the older Babylonianversion, which dates to around
1650 B.
C.
, and this particular copy issupposedly the most complete
rendition of the tale that hassurvived.
And the discovery of these newtexts greatly expanded our
understanding of this epic andit formed a foundation for
(19:26):
Lambert and Millard's firstEnglish translation of the
Atrahasis epic, which aimed tocapture it in nearly its
entirety.
Joe (19:35):
Yeah, so much.
Like the Enuma Elish, theAtrahasis narrates the creation
of us human beings by the godscollectively known as the
Anunnaki and the Agigi, andthere's a hierarchy to them that
can be likened to that of theone in Greek mythology, you know
, where Zeus, like Enlil, reignsover the air, poseidon, like
(19:56):
Enki, governs the ocean, andthey are both the sons of Kronos
.
Just like Anu, enki can also becompared to Hades.
Hades rules the underworld, orthe great abyss.
That description has also beengiven to Hades.
Hades rules the underworld, orthe great abyss.
That description has also beengiven of Enki, and the narrative
delves into explaining the dawnof civilization, suggesting
that early humans roamedMesopotamia as free nomads, and
(20:20):
then the Neolithic Revolution,which you mentioned, comes along
, and from this point they alsobegin to master agriculture, and
then they transition into asedentary life, from a nomadic
one, and then they transform thelands of what is called the
fertile crescent into lushlandscapes, perhaps reminiscent
(20:42):
of how the garden of eden isdescribed, and you know the
detailed processes of thatcultivation, as you just read
from the Atrahasis.
And then it unfolds with aconflict amongst some of the
earliest Sumerian gods, alsodrawing from the Genesis
parallel of the separation oftenreferred to as the above and
(21:03):
the below, showing a separationbetween heaven and earth, a
distinction.
Enlil leads the council of godswho are associated with the
upper heavens the higher realm,while Enki and his group called
Igigi, are more closely alignedwith the underworld, the lower
realm where we're stuck at.
And this mythologicalconnection may be the root of
(21:26):
why Enki is viewed by thecharacter as a symbol of the
serpent, and this might beconflated with the serpent in
the Garden of Eden, thus leadingto this common misconception
that this serpent was Satan.
Okay.
.
.
remember that the serpent isnever directly identified as
Satan anywhere in the Bible.
(21:47):
It's like saying he's Satan indisguise.
That imagery came about muchlater with the systemization of
Christian theological doctrine.
Laurie (21:58):
Right.
So, in the text there exists anorganization of at least these
three male factions of gods,each specializing in either
thinkers or workers, which isakin to today's dreamers and
realists.
I guess the story shifts to thegods, the burdened with the
(22:18):
most artist farm labor, who growdiscontented and rebel against
Enlil.
Actually, and while it focuseson farming, the Sumerian account
leans more towards mining and,with the aid of divine women,
the Anunnaki goddesses, the uh,you know, the rebellious faction
(22:40):
triumphs and orchestrates thecreation of the first pair of
humans who are meant to serve aslaborers to mine gold and to
cultivate the land.
So, possibly echoing thefarming narrative that is found
in Genesis, which interestinglyalso mentions that the land was
rich in gold and minerals, I'mgoing to read a portion of text
(23:04):
to you again which shows theevents leading up to the flood
and how the Anunnaki taughthumans how to irrigate the land.
And this was not to help theHomo sapiens population at all.
Instead it was so that theycould farm.
The humans could farm andproduce food for the gods.
So this is from Timothy JStephanie's work on the Enuma
(23:27):
Elish, the Babylonian creationmyth.
It also includes the Atraasis,the first great flood myth.
So here it is from Tablet 1,pages 72 and 73.
So Elil showed them the way tosmelt iron and to work steel,
and they took up the metalimplements from the ash pile,
(23:48):
producing new picks and shadesto dig long channels, to provide
food and please the gods.
And the water fed the land well.
Food became abundant.
People harvested their fieldsof grain, they made bread and
ate.
They performed many sacrificesfor the first time.
So they prepared a floweroffering to the gods, their
(24:10):
patrons, and they prepared afood offering to the gods, their
patrons.
And they prepared a presentoffering to the gods.
It says, to smoke, disperse andoffer incense offerings to the
gods.
Then it reads in addition tothis, they made their daily
sacrifices to the gods, and thegods enjoyed their offerings and
(24:33):
were contented.
But man gathered going abouttheir business in the towns.
They ate their bread and dranktheir beer and had offspring,
and their numbers becameincreasingly greater by far.
Now.
This supposedly continued forapproximately 600 years.
And then Enlil became annoyedby human noise, by saying and a
(24:54):
noise which is made by man hasbecome too great for me.
All of this clamor and clatterhas kept me from my sleep.
Therefore, command an outbreakof the shivering disease.
Joe (25:06):
Right.
So, as the story goes along, wesee that the gods, particularly
Enlil, is looking at people asbeing kind of like a pestilence.
First he wants to eliminatehumanity with a pandemic, but it
doesn't work.
Enki warned Atrahasis about howto help the people not get sick
(25:27):
, and of course this irritatedEnlil.
So, another 1,200 years goes byand in the next idea Enlil
comes up with his famine, andthat doesn't work very well
either.
Again, enki tips off Atrahasisand gives humanity survival tips
.
Fast forward another 1,200 yearsand now Enlil becomes aware of
(25:49):
a pending cataclysm that willcause them all to be drowned in
a massive flood.
At this time Enlil makes Enki,as well as all the Anunnaki,
swear no's not to help thehumans figure out a way to
survive.
So Enki's oath not to tellanyone, particularly Atrahasis,
that puts him in a bind.
Enki looked very not to tellanyone, particularly Atrahasis,
that puts him in a bind.
Enki looked very favorablytoward humanity, especially
(26:13):
Atrahasis, and did not want tosee any of it eradicated in the
way that Enlil did.
Yet he took his oath seriously,swearing them on his life.
But he was able to work out hisown loophole in this oath by
telling Atrahasis to wait insideof a tent, while Enki would go
(26:34):
stand outside of it.
So the two of them wereseparated by sight with a veil
or a tarp of the tent, with Enkion the opposite side and
Atrahasis on the inside, so hewould speak out, uh, and he
would start to speak out to noone in particular, um, saying
hey, there's a massive floodthat is coming, you know, wipe
(26:57):
out all living creatures.
He spoke aloud that someoneshould prepare yourself the in
your house and build a ship andspurn all your possessions so to
save your life, the ship shouldbe cube-shaped and it should be
waterproof.
He's just saying this to no onein particular, but he's saying
it loud enough so that Atrahasiscan hear it from within the
(27:17):
tent.
Now, there's no mention oftaking in animals and it doesn't
give the impression that thisship was to be all too big, as
there are no dimensions of itgiven, like how we see in
Genesis 6 (27:29):
14-1 6 so, as you can see, inky was very deceptive
and smart.
Laurie (27:37):
Intelligent because he knew that if they asked him, did
you tell anybody.
Well, no, I didn't tell no one.
Which?
Joe (27:45):
echEes to the description of the serpent in the garden of
Eden that he was the craftiestand the most clever of all the
creatures in the garden, andthat does describe Enki as the
craftiest and most clever of allthe Anunnaki Yep.
Laurie (28:01):
Now, this is reminiscent of what is found in the Book of
Enoch, where, in chapter 10,verses 1 through 6, god sends
the angel Uriel to warn Noahabout the flood and then puts
blame on the angels for the evilthings that they taught mankind
.
So you know so we have threedifferent causes here.
First is noise of the humans, ofcourse.
(28:23):
In the Bible, it's the sin ofmankind.
In the books of Enoch, it's thesins of the angels.
So it's also important to notethat Enoch depicts the
appearance of Noah in a verystrange way, and he is said to
glow like the sun, to have hairas white as snow and very bright
(28:44):
blue eyes and very bright blueeyes.
Oddly enough, recent geneticstudies on people's eye color
show that blue eyes are causedby a mutation that occurred
about I believe it was 30,000years ago.
According to the website byLuna DNA, dated back in 2018, I
think it was up to about 10,000years ago, or probably up to
(29:05):
30,000, I don't know for sure,but humans had all I guess they
had brown eyes, or the primates,I guess and it's believed that
a mutation occurred sometimeabout just 10,000 years ago in
the OCA2 gene, which is mainlythe gene responsible for eye
color, and that it can be tracedto first appearing in the area
(29:28):
of the Caucasus Mountains nearthe Black Sea, just due north of
Mesopotamia.
So, could this mutation be aresult of what was identified as
the mating between angels whowould be extraterrestrials, of
course and humans?
So are we products of that?
Are we hybrids?
(29:49):
And after all, the text goes onto say that one of the behaviors
that angered Enlil was thisinterbreeding between Anunnaki
and humans.
It's almost like that Thormovie.
Where was it Jane Thor's loveinterest?
She goes to Asgard and then shewakes up on this table and I
(30:15):
think Odin comes out and he'slike what is this?
She's like a goat.
What is this goat doing in myhouse?
So that's how Enlil viewedhumans like animals, because we
are from the primate.
And if that is so, then couldEnoch be implying that Noah or
Azra Asis was somehow a demigod?
Joe (30:36):
Right.
Well, we find out as the epicgoes along.
God wants to do away with thewickedness of the earth
altogether, which resulted fromthe intermarriage of the sons of
God with the daughters of men,which brought about the Nephilim
, the giants.
This ties in with Genesis 6 andalso ties in with Enoch, where
(31:01):
God is again saying he isgrieved with the offspring of
this intercourse.
This is a displeasure to him.
He's angry with this, he wantsto wipe it out, the corruption.
And this ties in with whatwe're saying with Atrahasis,
where we again see this idea,with the god being enraged, in
this case Enlil.
He's enraged with theintercourse between Anunnaki and
(31:24):
humans and again wants to wipeeverything out because of it.
So we see this theme pop upagain in a much older tradition
of going into the Sumerianmythology.
Remember, these gods, accordingto Sitchin, were actually none
other than alien beings who werejust very advanced in their
(31:46):
knowledge of geology andcelestial mechanics.
They knew full well thatthere's going to be a close
passage of a planet and it wasgoing to result in pretty bad
things happening here.
This deluge seems to havesomething to do with a large ice
sheet breaking off inAntarctica.
The Anunnaki knew this wasgoing to happen, mainly Enlil.
(32:09):
They knew this was going tohappen when their planet
according to Sitchin is Nibirucame near to Earth in one of its
passes and the gravitationalstrain was going to dislodge a
huge glacier, a massive glacierfrom the continent of Antarctica
and thus make the ocean levelsrise very quickly.
Of course, the aliens, whoSitchin conflates with Anunnaki,
(32:34):
had the advantage of being ableto evacuate the earth in order
to avoid themselves being killedby it, since they knew well
ahead of time that it was goingto happen and had the technology
to leave the earth earth wellin low, saying in a few places
that humans weren't meant tolast forever.
Laurie (32:50):
So, yeah, we served our purpose for them and that was it
.
But some of them did care.
Um, some of them were moral andrighteous and didn't want to
see the human race wiped out,like Enki, I guess.
And, on the other hand, eventhe more ethical Anunnaki seemed
to believe that we needed ournumbers to be greatly reduced
(33:13):
and be given a new start.
And, as the story shows, thepost-Diluvial Earth was
different than before.
But it was not the first timeit had changed, and the Anunnaki
knew that, and they would havehad an understanding that,
compared to what we possessed atthe time, would have made them
godlike.
(33:34):
Not only were humanity's numbersgreatly decimated in this flood
, but it also seems likely thatAtlantis, if it existed as a
technological advanced colony onour planet, was also eradicated
because of it.
So, as you can see, noah isAtraasis, aka Hupnapistim, and
(33:55):
Ziusudra, and that is, and thatit is not the sin of man that
you know that made the gods wipecivilization out.
It was our piskiness, ournoisiness, you know.
You can also compare the floodofferings to the sacrifices in
the book of Leviticus that I wastalking about earlier.
You know, before even readingthe Atra Asis I wrote about that
(34:17):
, these sacrifices as nothingmore than food preparations and
offerings for the gods in thebook, that is, to send the
biblical first contact.
Joe (34:27):
Yeah, and I think this noisiness is a noun that
corresponds to something akin todebauchery, drunkenness,
rowdiness, you know basicwickedness.
But the point is the same as inthe scriptures, with people
becoming very upsetting to theLord.
As in the scriptures, withpeople becoming very upsetting
to the Lord and it didn't, andbecause of someone that being
(34:52):
Atrahasis or whoever survived it, we see mankind after this now
is elevated in esteem.
The Atrahasis has Anu and Enlilnow almost amazed at humans.
They are actually nowglorifying the human race,
saying you know, they're worthyof continuing to exist on Earth
because they actually survivedall these attempts for us to
wipe them out.
(35:12):
They must be okay.
And also said that will helpthem survive, although the
Mesopotamian story does havethem limiting the age of humans
to 120 years.
So they will help them, butthey don't want them living
forever either.
And this sounds remarkablysimilar to Noah's story in
(35:35):
Genesis 8-21.
God has taken a remorseful tone, saying that in his heart he
will never again curse the earthfor man's sake.
And he also says yeah, people,you're not going to live forever
, 120 years and you're tappingout yeah, yeah, that's uh,
that's what they took from us tosay.
Laurie (35:55):
That's a comparison with uh in the garden of eat, in the
garden of eden.
You know, we, we becameknowledgeable and knew right
from wrong, to develop theconscious, but then we were
kicked out because we couldn'thave immortality, we couldn't
eat of the tree of life.
And so, according to the OldTestament, at first we had these
hundreds and hundreds of yearsthat some of the patriarchs
(36:16):
lived and their sons anddaughters.
And here we are now, but we'reblessed, I guess, if we make it
to 70.
But there's also another goodcomparison here.
When, you know, the gods lookeddown on humans and thought, well
, they're glorifying the humanrace because of what happened.
But in the Atra Asimis itactually describes this as again
(36:39):
going back to the offerings andthe food.
Remember, when Noah came out ofthe ark, he made an offering to
the Lord and the Bible says andit was a good-smelling savor or
good aroma to the Lord.
Well, that's this.
That's this.
Atra Asis explains this.
As the gods were hungry becausethey were up circling around
the earth during this flood andthey were running out of food.
(37:02):
They were starving around theearth during this flood and
they're running out of food.
They were starving.
So when they came down, humans,noah and his family, whatever
prepared these sacrifices, whichare none other than meal
preparations, and they were sothankful for the humans for
doing that.
But if this flood did indeedoccur at the end of the last ice
age, around 13,000 BC, then itwas most likely after this that
(37:27):
people were taught such thingsas the agriculture and husbandry
and then, not long after, theybegan to start civilization all
over again.
So the planet Nibiru makes acouple more passes, such as
around 11,000 BC and then againaround 7,500 BC, with the
Anunnaki then assisting mankindin the domestication of animals
(37:50):
and the construction ofbuildings.
3800 BC, the Sumeriancivilization is found to be in
full bloom now and man hadlearned to teach mathematics,
(38:11):
astronomy, chemistry and writing, among other things.
And after this, mesopotamianmythology has the Anunnaki
dividing the earth into regions,with Enki and his descendants
given rule over Africa andEnlila's descendants given rule
over Eurasia.
And this sounds very close towhat is in the Bible, with the
regions of earth being dividedup by Noah's three sons, shem,
(38:32):
ham and Japheth.
Joe (38:34):
Yeah, and just to make note on the lifespans of people in
the Anunnaki in the Sumerianking list, it gives the period
of time of the reign that thesekings had as being in the tens
of thousands of years.
Their lifespans were tens ofthousands, maybe even hundreds
of thousands of years.
So the idea of waiting 1,200years for the next go-round or
(38:57):
600 years for the next go-roundto make an attempt to do
something was nothing to them.
And of course Ab Atrahasis isone of these kings on that list.
His lifespan would have been inthe tens of thousands that we
must assume, as all the otherindividuals on that Sumerian
(39:18):
king list were mentioned ashaving these reigns that were
22,000, 17,000 years.
So this idea of shortening thelifespan to 120, that was really
confounding, to sort of thecomparison of making these
humans anything like God.
That showed you aren't evengoing to be close.
Your lifespan is going to beminiscule compared to ours and
(39:42):
that's echoed also in the bookof Genesis.
So this whole flood narrative,really it's important to
consider the later theologicalconstructs that developed from
it through the hermeneutics andit became incorporated into the
Christian canon.
You know water is used tosymbolize the cleansing of sin
and return to the original stateof perfection, kind of like in
(40:04):
the Garden of Eden.
And that's also a way to bemanifested in the ritual of
baptism Water cleans, waterpurifies, and there's also the
meaning of divine wrath found inthe teachings of the flood, as
well as divine mercy andredemption.
So that's all brought into thesort of elements of this story
(40:24):
and the parallel found betweenthe earth being rid of
wickedness and evil ways throughthe submersion of water.
The old world is gone and a newone comes forth from it.
Just as it's taught through ourhermeneutics that water
submersion removes the old selfof sin and is done away with and
a new self comes out, cleansed.
And this is one of the firstrituals found in Christianity.
(40:46):
Actually it's based on the ideaof life being renewed, a person
being renewed.
Just as with the flood, allcreated life on earth was
renewed.
And this is implied in thewords of Jesus when he tells the
Samaritan woman at the well inJohn 4, 7 through 14, that he is
the living water.
The one who drinks it willbecome a springing well to
(41:08):
eternal life.
So there's a deeper, morefigurative and more spiritual
theme that has been applied inthis scriptural use of water.
That goes all the way back tothe story of the flood.
Perhaps you can say it's anesoteric use.
Religious thinkers from allover have studied and meditated
upon the story of the deluge,but it's also been realized in
(41:31):
the literal telling of it, ofthe cataclysm itself, and for
the most part it is always toldthe same way among all of the
world's religions A deity who isreally angry with humanity, and
in so much so he tries to wipeit out and allows a few people
and animals to survive, but inthe end, uh, humanity is
purified by those people who domanage to survive in some
(41:54):
special way right and um.
Laurie (41:58):
what you need to pick up here is is what is stated in
the Bible verses that Ipreviously read that God was
sorry for creating humans andthat his heart was filled with
pain.
Okay, folks, now this is whatwe mean by the characteristics
of the biblical God, just notmatching with our indoctrinated
worldview of him that we havetoday.
(42:20):
So this and what we read fromAtreus, this all indicates that
he made a mistake and that hehas feelings, or they have
feelings and a heart that feelspain.
So he, god, has what you mightcall buyer's remorse.
So how much clearer can you beon this God or these gods being
(42:44):
organic flesh and blood?
We've said many times in ourepisodes that we see this
throughout the Bible and otherreligious texts too.
The gods are indeedextraterrestrial in that they
are not of this world.
Yes, in that way they are notlike us, but they are creatures,
physical creatures withmaterial bodies, not spirits or
(43:05):
ghosts, and in that way they arelike us.
Joe (43:10):
Yeah, and like us, being as organic beings with flesh and
blood, as you say, they are notinfallible or impeccable or
omnipotent.
They may be more advanced thanus by far, but they are not God.
Just think of them as such.
And the occurrence of the floodwas predicted by them, not
(43:31):
initiated by them.
It was due to their tremendousknowledge, technical knowledge,
that they could foresee what wasabout to happen that there was
going to be an increase in tidalfriction compounded with the
instability of the Antarctic icesheets.
And this is a recount of thestory of Noah and the
construction of his ark, butit's a lot more elaborated.
(43:53):
The Enuma Elish and the Book ofEnoch they both give much more
detail that I've always thoughtwe were at a disadvantage for
not being taught more in Biblestudies about this.
This was kind of always kind of, you know, obscured and hidden
from us.
As you know, this is notincluded in the canon and we
(44:13):
find in the verses you know,like when Noah was born he
looked completely different frommost babies and that he was as
white as snow, his face shone asbrightly as the sun and he
could speak to the Lord withrighteousness.
And we find this also in apseudoepicological manuscript
(44:35):
called the Book of Noah,referenced in seven chapters of
Enoch.
It's also called the Book ofJubilees, but other than that
it's non-existent.
It's an apocryphal writingsthat, you know, we're not really
taught unless we go andresearch it ourselves.
But they are found in the DeadSea Scrolls, which were dated to
(44:57):
the second and first centuriesBC.
So really, until the Dead SeaScrolls came to light, the
pseudo-epigraphal manuscriptswere virtually unknown to
everybody.
Laurie (45:08):
Correct.
And now, in Genesis, noah isthe son of Lamech, and he's also
the great son of Enoch.
His name is said to meancomfort.
So it says that Noah foundgrace in the eyes of the Lord,
or in the eyes of Yahweh, asit's supposedly read, that he
was a just and perfect man andthat he walked with God.
(45:29):
That's about all that is givenconcerning him.
However, in Enoch 105, more isrevealed about his origin.
Lamech is fearful at the sightof Noah and goes to his father,
methuselah, to say that he hasbegotten a strange son who is
not human.
That's interesting, but insteadhe resembles an angel, just
(45:51):
like I said earlier.
So Methuselah in turn seeks thecounsel of his father, enoch,
who tells him that the infantwill survive a great destruction
and he, along with his threesons.
He also assures Methuselah, andin turn Lamech, that Noah is
indeed a child that belongs tohim.
So you know, we do have tobelieve that there was indeed a
(46:15):
flood, at least some kind offlood, and that it was a pretty
big one at that, but also onethat it didn't likely cover the
whole planet, like we talkedabout, but certainly did cover
large areas of where people wereliving.
Now let's go back to the Enoch10.2.3, where God orders Uriel
(46:36):
to go down and meet with Noah inattempt to warn him about this.
You know coming delusion.
Instruct him on how to preparefor it.
Joe (46:47):
Right and it parallels pretty much the Genesis telling
of preparation with an ark andto get himself and his family
into it and thus save himself.
Not much in terms of gettingthe animals onto the Ark.
It vaguely hints at trying tosave some other creatures.
(47:10):
It's kind of odd that theHebrew writers decided to be
that detailed about the Arkitself and not so much about
Noah and his beginning.
Here, when he's born, he glowslike the sun and his hair is as
white as snow.
They seem to be focused more onthe dimensions and numerology
(47:36):
involved with describing the Ark.
The numerology had a lot to dowith important in Jewish
theology in terms of showingconnection with the divine and
also covenant with the divine,which is what the ark is.
It's much like the ark of thecovenant, showing a connection
with God, what this was inGenesis and perhaps why the
(48:05):
Hebrew scribes spent that timekind of painstakingly detailing
the building of the ark morethan like Enoch does and
certainly more than theAtrahasis does, where it just
says, yeah, build a ship that'sa cube shape like a square boat.
But you know there is plenty ofevidence to be studied to show
that the earth and its climatehave transformed quite a bit
(48:25):
through its 4.5 billion yearhistory Long periods of warming,
followed by long periods ofcooling, and there have been
five known ice ages, and thensubsequent periods of warming
and the melting of those iceages, and then again more
warming periods.
Warming and the melting ofthose ice ages, and then again
more warming periods.
So it's in this macro cyclethat scientists attribute to
(48:47):
plate tectonics and solaractivity orbital factors of the
Earth.
But it seems like thisparticular deluge had endured in
our cultural memories more sothan any other cataclysm that
occurred on Earth.
This definitely puts us on thebrink of extinction.
The story of the flood Even ifyou believe that more than eight
(49:09):
people survived it, it probablytook a lot of lives back then.
We have no idea of knowingexactly how many.
Just going by the biblicalnarrative, it was only eight.
Laurie (49:23):
Yeah, so far we have the three different stories about
it Atrahasis, the book ofGenesis and the book of Enoch.
So how do we know which one iscorrect?
I mean, I guess it should bethe original one, I guess the
Sumerian story, that would bethe one that was first recorded
and therefore less likely to bea myth.
(49:44):
Enoch and Genesis would then beconsidered or condensed, would
be condensed and paraphrasedversions based on the Babylonian
account, which in turn waspassed down from the Sumerian
account.
Joe (49:59):
Yeah, and since around 1830 , there have been several
theories put forth to reconcilethe elements of the flood
narratives and the creationnarrative as well with the
current discoveries in thenatural sciences, and they've
been coined different names likeflood, geology, scientific
creationism, young earth,intelligent design, theistic
(50:22):
evolution, young earth,intelligent design, theistic
evolution.
But they often run into theproblem that they are less with
semantics and more with thestructuralism, and we see this
in how the biblical writerscommunicated and understood the
concepts of cosmology.
They were inaccurate.
The epistemological modelsprevalent in the ancient Hebrews
and it talks about thisthroughout the scripture that
(50:45):
there existed a firmament abovethe earth and an abyss below it
and that water surroundedeverything.
So this idea of a sphericalearth didn't seem to come around
until later on, you know time,of Greek thinkers like Euclid,
Aristoteles and Ptolemy, andI've actually seen some diagrams
that are kind of interesting.
They illustrate this idea offlat terra upheld by pillars
(51:10):
that have fountains going downto the waters below in the abyss
, which eventually connect tothe oceans, and then you have
the sky over the ground andoceans, with the sun, moon and
planets and stars moving in thisdome in which everything is
encapsulated.
So everything's kind of beyondthe firmament where there's
water.
So it's a strange kind of thingto try to visualize that
(51:32):
there's this big old dome ofwater up in the sky and above.
That is where the sun and themoon and the stars are all at,
and it has floodgates, or whatthey call windows of heaven
holding these waters above, andsometimes referred to as the
expanse, and likewise below theground, but above is an abyss
(51:55):
called Sheol or Hades, andthat's the abode of the dead.
So this whole universe is sortof inside what would be like
look like a snow shaker globe.
And when we read about thefountains and the floodgates
opening and dumping watereverywhere, we have to know that
somehow misconstrued andmisunderstood process of nature.
But it was something else washappening to bring all that
(52:17):
water out of the sky and thenout of the ground.
But it was believed back then,uh, that it was from the
firmament and the abyss.
That's the belief thatpersisted.
And actually it wasn't untilabout 65 years ago that the
Vatican had formallyacknowledged that there actually
was no such thing as afirmament or an abyss and that
(52:39):
the mention of it in Genesis isfully it really is allegorical
truths.
No-transcript.
Laurie (52:50):
Yeah, correct, it's the ancient mind trying to describe
how this all happened.
Because they weren't outsidethe planet, they haven't
discovered these things.
So, yeah, we are not flatearthers at all.
We definitely believe that theEarth is spherical, but they
didn't know at the time.
(53:11):
But with all of our technologyand advancements, we know that
for a fact.
But what's interesting to knowis that the Bible mentions that
God had not allowed it to rainon the earth up until the start
of the flood, and it said that amist would a vapor that once
(53:40):
covered the earth.
So I believe that before theflood came, this vapor was thick
enough to block out much of thesun's rays.
Again, maybe not the entireplanet, but certain regions,
possibly, obviously in the oneswhere the Bible stories are told
.
So, after the tilting of theEarth and the shifting of the
(54:01):
poles caused by thegravitational pull of a large
body, that could either be whenthe moon was put in place, as
the Zulu shaman also stated,dragged there by two god
brothers, and then the earthtilted and turned on its side
(54:24):
because the moon was hollowedout and dragged across the solar
system and placed there, or itcould be Nibiru, like we said
earlier, coming in closeproximity.
Anyway, this all started newweather patterns, including rain
.
So the vapor and mist haddissipated and the sun's rays
were now able to fully penetratethe atmosphere, causing a new
phenomenon.
You guessed it that's therainbow.
(54:45):
And this wasn't some greatmiracle or a promise by God at
all.
This is what happens whensunlight is refracted through
the raindrops to cause theoptical spectrum to be seen in
what we know as the rainbow.
So this was not seen in theatmosphere, at least not very
(55:06):
often in the times before theflood.
That Genesis is most likely ashortened rendition of both the
Enumelish creation myth, theAtrahasis flood myth and other
Sumerian tales preserved in theAkkadian script.
And we shouldn't take thebiblical story as accurate at
(55:27):
face value.
And not only do you have thehighest mountains completely
submerged, which would beimpossible, you also have only
Noah and his family who weresaved, plus a male and female of
each species that made it ontothe ark, which would also be
impossible.
And just as inconceivable isthe idea that all of the world
(55:48):
is going to be replenished withhuman and animal life in this
way.
And one more thing to noteabout that is remember the story
of Joshua going into the landof Canaan when they sent the
spies.
The spies saw that there weregiants living in Canaan.
So how could there be giants ifthe whole flood had destroyed
(56:11):
everything on it except for Noahand his family?
Joe (56:14):
A few Nephilim survived.
The flood is what it'ssuggesting and I think most you
know theologians accept that inGenesis' allegory, that it is a
symbol.
So you know, the elements ofthe story would tell a
scriptural truth, more so than aliteral, factual telling of
(56:35):
what happened at some point inEarth's history.
I mean, don't forget plant life.
You said that all human lifeand animal life would be
destroyed in this way, accordingto the narrative.
But if there was a deluge ofthis magnitude it would kill
tremendous amounts of trees andgrass and bushes.
Even aquatic vegetationwouldn't survive the changes in
(56:57):
salinity, temperature, claritythere's, nutrient concentration,
water, light penetration.
Fish wouldn't survive either,for the same reasons that I'm
mentioning.
So too much of the ecosystemwould have been altered and we
don't find any evidence of thatfrom the fossil records, not
(57:18):
from the time that we're talkingof, between 11,000 to 13,000
years ago, when we believe thatthis deluge would have occurred.
Nor do we find conclusiveevidence of the remains of
Noah's Ark or Atrahasis' Arkbeing on Mount Ararat or
anywhere else, even though therehave been many claims that it's
(57:39):
there and has been seen and hasbeen touched.
Regardless of that, it's neverbeen conclusively shown that
that has been found, but thiswhole argument about the literal
interpretation of the floodaccount has been around for
quite a while and is one thatmany people still hold on, even
now, right, so, uh, we'll wrapit up there, as there are more
(58:04):
ancient texts that we would liketo discuss in the upcoming
future and that also come fromthe ancient world, and another
one that we would like to getinto is the epic of Gilgamesh
world, and another one that wewould like to get into is the
epic of Gilgamesh, and we mostlikely will do that on our next
show.
However, there are some otherplans that are floating around
right now that Lori and I havethat may change up the line, the
(58:27):
lineup of shows.
If that's the case, we'll letyou know.
What are we posting on ourFacebook page, and we might be
able to bring on another guestwith us for discussion on a
completely different topic, but,as of now, we're looking
forward to the next episodebeing about the epic of
Gilgamesh.
Either way, we'll be back withyou at the end of June or
(58:47):
beginning of July.
Laurie (58:49):
Yeah, and as always, folks, you know, please leave us
a comment on the episodes weput together.
And also don't forget to visitus on our YouTube channel and,
you know, hit subscribe and likethat really helps us out.
Check out our website, alientalk podcast dot com.
And, you know, there you cansee the links for our books and
(59:12):
and you can listen to theepisodes there if you want as
well, and see some of theguests' bios and our bio of you
know.
So.
Joe (59:22):
Yeah, and we should also mention that our last episode
with Miles Spencer is now onYouTube, if you want to give it
a watch.
So thank you all for yoursupport and, as always, stay
curious.
Hello and thank you for joining us on Alien Talk Podcast
.
This is the show where wediscuss all things about aliens
and UFOs and, as always, wherewe push the limits of our
understanding about subjectsthat pertain to the existence of
extraterrestrial intelligence,the presence of UFOs and perhaps
even the very meaning of lifehere on our noble planet.
We explore the mysteries of thecosmos and the enshrouded
(00:26):
secrets of our ancient history,constantly pondering what is out
there in the far reaches ofspace and asking questions about
what our ancestors reallyencountered and all of the
revered stories from the distantpast.
It's been a while since we'vebeen with you, but the last time
we were here on Alien TalkPodcast our previous episode we
(00:47):
had the distinct honor ofhosting Miles Spencer, the
author of the book A Line in theSand.
We were able to get in a prettyin-depth discussion with him,
in which we had descriptions andamazing insights into the
geographic, cultural andhistorical landscapes of the
Middle East, which, as we allknow, is the land of the Bible
(01:10):
and possibly the mostfascinating region on Earth.
Laurie (01:15):
Yeah, that was a really good discussion we had with him
and it was very thorough andall-encompassing and we touched
on a lot of things that weusually don't cover on this show
, such as, you know, the covertmilitary missions of T.
E.
Lawrence, the stories aboutWorld War I, the modern
political climate of the MiddleEast and even about some of the
(01:38):
food over there.
So, it was a bit of a change ofvenue for us.
I have to say that.
Joe (01:44):
It was, and I found it quite enjoyable and hopefully
all of you out there did as well.
So, if you remember, almost twomonths ago now, before we had
Miles on with us, we weretalking about something known as
the Enuma Elish, which is theBabylonian creation myth, which
many scholars believe is derivedfrom earlier Sumerian myth, the
(02:07):
Sumerian civilization beingsucceeded by the Akkadian,
Assyrian and Babylonian ones.
It is considered by mainstreamacademia to be the first
civilization on earth, evenpredating that of Egypt by
almost a thousand years.
That was brought up when wespent some time covering that
debate between Billy Carson andWes Huff, in which they got into
(02:31):
a heated discussion about thebiblical text and the other
ancient sources.
It was put on YouTube near thebeginning of this year and this
debate was lengthy and somemight even say it was a little
bit theatrical.
And this debate was lengthy,and some might even say it was a
little bit theatrical.
It was between the prevailingviewpoints of typical
denominational Christianapologetics and those of the
(02:52):
ancient astronaut theory, Huffbeing a well-known Bible scholar
and Carson an expert on themythological traditions of the
ancient world, the ancientMiddle East and many aspects of
the ancient alien hypothesis.
So, the Enuma Elish wasmentioned in that, and the Enuma
Elish to which it is alludedbears similarities to the
(03:21):
Genesis creation story in theJudeo-Christian canon, with
Genesis seeming to be like ashortened and more condensed
version of the overall scenarioportrayed in the Enuma Elish.
Now there is another piece ofmythology, also a Mesopotamian
origin, called the Atrahasis,that tells of humanity's
beginning and also presents anarrative about the flood, the
flood, the great flood, theflood of Noah, the flood, the
(03:44):
great flood, the flood of Noah.
Like the Enuma Elish, theAtrahasis seems to exhibit the
same literary devices that wefind within the story structure
of the book of Genesis.
The theme is basically the samethe gods create man and woman.
They disobey the gods and arepunished for it.
Humans then become too much forthe gods to tolerate, such that
they regret making them in thefirst place.
(04:05):
Then the gods decide thatmankind should be drowned in a
great big flood, and only a fewrighteous ones are permitted to
survive and eventuallyrepopulate the Earth.
Laurie (04:18):
Right, and I'm excited about this Atrahasis.
Just really, if you really payattention to you, you'll really
see the ancient avian connectionin this group of texts.
But, like the Enuma Elish, theAtraha sis was discovered from
clay tablets with Akkadiancuneiform script that dated to
(04:42):
around the same time period,which is around 668 to 627 B.
C.
, and European explorers foundit in the same forgotten library
of Assurbanipal, among theruins of ancient Assyrian, the
city of Nineveh, which is modernday Iraq, and if you remember
(05:04):
that, that city, Nineveh, whichis modern-day Iraq, and if you
remember that city, Nineveh,that's where Jonah had to go and
he refused to go down there andhe eventually got swallowed by
a whale.
But it is also believed to haveoriginated around 19th to 18th
century B.
C.
and it is the retelling of aneven older Sumerian story that
(05:26):
includes the gods Anu, Enlil,and Enki.
Now, we've definitely heard ofthem before, of course.
Zechariah Sitchin referenced itquite a bit in the Earth
Chronicles series, as it depictsa turmoil amongst the gods, the
Anunnaki, which is essential tothe most elaborate or the more
elaborate understanding of theancient astronaut theory, and as
(05:50):
he drew a very close parallelbetween the characteristics
revealed of the Anunnaki godswith that of extraterrestrial
beings.
The Sumerian language was notlike the other languages that
came after it, so the knowledgefrom the oldest civilization on
earth is preserved in theAkkadian script, the cuneiform.
(06:12):
When that was discovered Fromthere, it became evident that
everything about the Sumerianswas later passed on to another
Semitic language, hebrew, fromwhich we get the script for the
Bible.
Now, the Bible, of course, as weknow, mentions early on that
God sent the flood because hewanted man to be completely
(06:37):
eradicated from the face of theearth.
Why so?
The simple theological answeris because God was sick of
humans being so evil that heregretted creating them and
intended to form a new worldwith a new covenant with the
people on it.
One of many covenants that wesee were devised throughout
(06:57):
Scripture.
It plainly in Genesis 6 (06:57):
5-7 that the Lord saw that the human
beings on the earth were verywicked and that everything they
thought about was evil.
He was sorry he had made manand his heart was filled with
pain.
So, the Lord said I willdestroy all human beings that I
(07:20):
made on this earth, that I madeon this earth.
Now, on the other hand, thestoryline within the Atra Asis
provides a more dynamicbackground and explains that
there was a lot more drama to it.
And most of us know about thegreat flood from our religious
upbringings, in which we learnedabout the story of Noah's Ark
(07:42):
from the book of Genesis inchapters 5 through 9.
And we're all very familiarwith it.
And the biblical account was,or has you know, water covering
the entire planet, with dry landnot being exposed for something
like over a year, evenexceeding the tallest mountains
by 20 feet in depth.
It rained like for 40 days and40 nights, and, you know, after
(08:07):
the fountains of the abyss andthe floodgates of the firmament
were open to cause the water toprevail for 150 days.
So this gives the reader theimpression that water was
actually covering Mount Everestby 20 feet, and that seems
highly unlikely.
However, the story of the GreatFlood in the distant past is
found in nearly every religioustradition in one form or another
(08:30):
, and not only that, but thegods played some part in it, in
its cause and in humanity'seventual survival of it.
Joe (08:39):
Right and this flood myth is supported by some degree of
scientific evidence.
That's not to say that everypart of it is demonstrably true,
you know, with Noah's Ark andthe two of a kind of every
animal getting onto it and thedoves being released, and all
that.
But in terms of what has beendiscovered from geological,
oceanographic and climatologicalstudies, it could very well be
(09:03):
that when the Bible, and theQuran for that matter, says that
the whole world was flooded,that was referring to the entire
known world of the peopleliving in the ancient Middle
East.
It could be that there was atone time a massive deluge that
hit the whole Tigris-EuphratesValley like a big tsunami coming
from the Persian Gulf,Tigris-Euphrates Valley, like a
(09:23):
big tsunami coming from thePersian Gulf, and that would
have been devastating to anyurbanization and agriculture.
Such an occurrence could havebeen preserved in the literary
tradition of the Mesopotamianpeople in a way that suggests
that the entire earth was indeedcovered with water, when really
it was much more localized,nonetheless significant enough
(09:43):
to permanently alter ancientsociety and way of life,
especially when you considerthat most of the settlements and
villages built by people inancient times were close to
water sources.
I mean, look at the Tigris andEuphrates rivers that connect to
the Persian Gulf, which in turnconnects to the Arabian Sea and
the Indian Ocean.
So, this area of the MiddleEast was heavily populated with
(10:04):
cities and farmlands and if youlived there at the time, you
could easily refer to that asthe world from your perspective.
Anything beyond that would havebeen virtually unknown to most
of those living there, butregardless, there is some
evidence that shows there weresubstantial and sudden changes
in ocean levels and these werefound within rock strata that
(10:26):
day to the time, close to thePleistocene Ice Age, which was
the last big one in geologicalhistory, and it was about 11,000
to 13,000 years ago.
So, floods not a flood, butmany floods could have happened
when the Ice Age was ending fromchanges in global climate and a
(10:47):
tilting of the Earth's axis andthe shifting of its magnetic
field.
The Younger Dryas ImpactHypothesis has been put forth to
suggest that there was a rapidfluctuation in the temperatures
across the planet right afterthe last ice age of 11,000 to
(11:11):
13,000 years ago and that it wasdirectly related to some cosmic
event, possibly a meteorite, orpossibly for some large
celestial body passing closelyby and causing a cataclysmic
event, and actuallypaleontological studies of
crystalline mineral celestialbody passing closely by and
causing a cataclysmic event, andactually paleontological
(11:32):
studies of crystalline, mineraland rock formations have led to
the speculation that there weremany cataclysms throughout
Earth's history.
In Greenland they found a largecrater underneath the ice sheet
that was caused by a meteorite.
They believe it was a meteoriteimpacting there, which could
coincide with sudden climaticand hydrological changes near
(11:52):
the end of the Cretaceous period.
It's known as the HiawathaGlacier.
.
.
right.
I think I remember that wordbeing brought up here once
before, but that dates to about58 million years ago yeah and, I
don't believe that the wholeworld was flooded like you're
(12:12):
saying.
Laurie (12:13):
Um, you know you agree with that it was just for that
area localized.
But I mean, I believe the worldwas, the earth was covered at
one time at water, probably inin its early days, and I mean
early days, like 4 billion yearsago, when it possibly became a
remnant of that large planet,Tiamat, which was a water planet
(12:33):
.
So that, I think, was when thewhole world was covered in water
.
And then, of course, talkingabout the meteorites, the
asteroid that struck the YucatanPeninsula in Mexico 66 million
years ago is thought to havewiped out the dinosaurs and that
(12:54):
brought about significantchanges to the Earth's biosphere
and the entire course ofevolution.
So, yeah, evidence shows thatour planet is no stranger to
cataclysms, and it is not hardto imagine that stories about
them would become preserved inthese oral traditions, which in
(13:14):
turn would become passed down asteachings and then later still,
you know, become instilled intopeople as religious doctrines.
And it seems very probable,from what we know, this
narrative of a great flood, thatit would have ushered in a new
era with different climates,starker land features and higher
(13:37):
ocean levels and the Neolithicrevolution in which the human
race began to emerge from beinghunter-gatherers into forming
organized societies that usedtools and technology.
And according to ZechariahSitchin, all of this is because
a planet like Nibiru passedclosely by us.
This is what he postulated uponexamining the text from the
(14:01):
library of Nineveh.
The text from the Library ofNineveh.
So, with the Atrahasis the nameis actually that of a main
character in the story, and itmeans very wise one.
And this is told from theperspectives of the gods Anu,
enlil and Enki, and the rolesthat they play.
And there are four main themesto it.
(14:23):
First, you have thecollaboration of gods, who
introduced Mesopotamianagriculture, which would have
been around the time of thisNeolithic period.
Second, a political struggleamong them and Zacharias Sitchin
speaks about that in the bookcalled Wars of Gods and Men,
which was resolved by creatingthe first human couple.
(14:45):
And third, subsequent rapidreproduction of these humans.
And fourth, the great floodthat the gods intended to use as
a means to eliminate them.
So we can already see thesimilarities with the Bible.
So consider the opening phraseand read just the first portion
(15:06):
of Tablet 1.
And then, joe, you can pick upfrom there.
But when the gods, not men,performed the work, bore the
burdens.
The weight was too great, thework too taxing, a sore plight.
So the seven great Anunnakimade the Agigi to take the lobe.
The king was their father, Anu,their counselor of war was Elil
(15:30):
, the chamberlain Nimrod andtheir canal manager, Ennugi,
taking up the container, theycast lots.
The gods divided up so that Anutook his home in the heavens to
live in the sky, while Enlilwent to make his abode among the
men of earth and astute Enkiacquired for himself the entire
(15:55):
sea's creator.
After Anu was in the sky and theabsolute gods did the sin, then
the heavenly Anunnaki made theAgigi take the land, or take the
load that caused the gods tocarve out the many water canals.
They had to open up conduits,the sustenance of the level, I'm
(16:16):
sorry, sustenance of the land.
They caused the Agigi to carveout the many water canals.
They had to open up conduits,the sustenance of the land.
So the immortals carved out thechannel of the river Tigris and
the divinities carved out thechannel of the Euphrates, boring
a chamber at the lowest depths,sitting stians in the deep
(16:42):
waters of the Abzu, beneath thecovering of land.
They placed braces within,situating these to raise its
aloft, those which stand at thepeaks underlying all mountains.
And they kept track of everylong year that they worked.
The excess water drained downto fill up the great swamp, and
(17:03):
they kept track of every longyear that they worked and this
was 3,600 years in which theycarried the heavy loads.
So that's amazing, prettydetailed.
Joe (17:14):
Yeah, well, as you can see, there's much more detail than
Genesis.
Laurie (17:18):
Oh yeah.
Joe (17:19):
And yes, Atrahasis is the name of the protagonist in the
epic.
He was a priest and the king ofthe city-state of Shurrupak.
His name appears as one that ison the Sumerian king list and
his reign is believed to havecoincided with that of
Hammurabi's great-grandson,ammis-aduqa, who ruled from 1646
(17:41):
to 1626 B.
C.
Who ruled from 1646 to 1626 B.
C.
And the name of the guy in theflood story.
It does vary from source tosource, depending if it is
Babylonian, akkadian or evenUgaritic, which is from the area
of Lebanon.
For instance, the Epic ofGilgamesh mentions this great
(18:03):
king who survived, asUt-Napashtim, meaning he has
found life, and there'ssomething else called the Eridu
Genesis.
He is called Zirasudra.
It is also in the Sumerian kinglist and they're all pretty
much interchangeable titles,really actually Akkadian titles
for the same character, who ismost likely also the same as
(18:25):
that of the biblical Noah, whosename in Hebrew means rest.
Anyway, a copy of this epicalso exists in a later Assyrian
dialect, which was also found inAshurbanipal's library of
Nineveh.
Apparently, it is a difficulttext to translate as it is
pretty fragmentary.
It is a difficult text totranslate as it is pretty
fragmentary.
However, in the 1860s, britisharchaeologist George Smith
(18:48):
assembled the fragments to writehis work called the Chaldean
Account of Genesis and thenlater, german historian Heinrich
Zimmermann corrected the namein 1899 to Atrahasis.
Laurie (19:03):
And in 1965, Welford G Lambert and Ellen Millard
published the older Babylonianversion, which dates to around
1650 B.
C.
, and this particular copy issupposedly the most complete
rendition of the tale that hassurvived.
And the discovery of these newtexts greatly expanded our
understanding of this epic andit formed a foundation for
(19:26):
Lambert and Millard's firstEnglish translation of the
Atrahasis epic, which aimed tocapture it in nearly its
entirety.
Joe (19:35):
Yeah, so much.
Like the Enuma Elish, theAtrahasis narrates the creation
of us human beings by the godscollectively known as the
Anunnaki and the Agigi, andthere's a hierarchy to them that
can be likened to that of theone in Greek mythology, you know
, where Zeus, like Enlil, reignsover the air, poseidon, like
(19:56):
Enki, governs the ocean, andthey are both the sons of Kronos
.
Just like Anu, enki can also becompared to Hades.
Hades rules the underworld, orthe great abyss.
That description has also beengiven to Hades.
Hades rules the underworld, orthe great abyss.
That description has also beengiven of Enki, and the narrative
delves into explaining the dawnof civilization, suggesting
that early humans roamedMesopotamia as free nomads, and
(20:20):
then the Neolithic Revolution,which you mentioned, comes along
, and from this point they alsobegin to master agriculture, and
then they transition into asedentary life, from a nomadic
one, and then they transform thelands of what is called the
fertile crescent into lushlandscapes, perhaps reminiscent
(20:42):
of how the garden of eden isdescribed, and you know the
detailed processes of thatcultivation, as you just read
from the Atrahasis.
And then it unfolds with aconflict amongst some of the
earliest Sumerian gods, alsodrawing from the Genesis
parallel of the separation oftenreferred to as the above and
(21:03):
the below, showing a separationbetween heaven and earth, a
distinction.
Enlil leads the council of godswho are associated with the
upper heavens the higher realm,while Enki and his group called
Igigi, are more closely alignedwith the underworld, the lower
realm where we're stuck at.
And this mythologicalconnection may be the root of
(21:26):
why Enki is viewed by thecharacter as a symbol of the
serpent, and this might beconflated with the serpent in
the Garden of Eden, thus leadingto this common misconception
that this serpent was Satan.
Okay.
.
.
remember that the serpent isnever directly identified as
Satan anywhere in the Bible.
(21:47):
It's like saying he's Satan indisguise.
That imagery came about muchlater with the systemization of
Christian theological doctrine.
Laurie (21:58):
Right.
So, in the text there exists anorganization of at least these
three male factions of gods,each specializing in either
thinkers or workers, which isakin to today's dreamers and
realists.
I guess the story shifts to thegods, the burdened with the
(22:18):
most artist farm labor, who growdiscontented and rebel against
Enlil.
Actually, and while it focuseson farming, the Sumerian account
leans more towards mining and,with the aid of divine women,
the Anunnaki goddesses, the uh,you know, the rebellious faction
(22:40):
triumphs and orchestrates thecreation of the first pair of
humans who are meant to serve aslaborers to mine gold and to
cultivate the land.
So, possibly echoing thefarming narrative that is found
in Genesis, which interestinglyalso mentions that the land was
rich in gold and minerals, I'mgoing to read a portion of text
(23:04):
to you again which shows theevents leading up to the flood
and how the Anunnaki taughthumans how to irrigate the land.
And this was not to help theHomo sapiens population at all.
Instead it was so that theycould farm.
The humans could farm andproduce food for the gods.
So this is from Timothy JStephanie's work on the Enuma
(23:27):
Elish, the Babylonian creationmyth.
It also includes the Atraasis,the first great flood myth.
So here it is from Tablet 1,pages 72 and 73.
So Elil showed them the way tosmelt iron and to work steel,
and they took up the metalimplements from the ash pile,
(23:48):
producing new picks and shadesto dig long channels, to provide
food and please the gods.
And the water fed the land well.
Food became abundant.
People harvested their fieldsof grain, they made bread and
ate.
They performed many sacrificesfor the first time.
So they prepared a floweroffering to the gods, their
(24:10):
patrons, and they prepared afood offering to the gods, their
patrons.
And they prepared a presentoffering to the gods.
It says, to smoke, disperse andoffer incense offerings to the
gods.
Then it reads in addition tothis, they made their daily
sacrifices to the gods, and thegods enjoyed their offerings and
(24:33):
were contented.
But man gathered going abouttheir business in the towns.
They ate their bread and dranktheir beer and had offspring,
and their numbers becameincreasingly greater by far.
Now.
This supposedly continued forapproximately 600 years.
And then Enlil became annoyedby human noise, by saying and a
(24:54):
noise which is made by man hasbecome too great for me.
All of this clamor and clatterhas kept me from my sleep.
Therefore, command an outbreakof the shivering disease.
Joe (25:06):
Right.
So, as the story goes along, wesee that the gods, particularly
Enlil, is looking at people asbeing kind of like a pestilence.
First he wants to eliminatehumanity with a pandemic, but it
doesn't work.
Enki warned Atrahasis about howto help the people not get sick
(25:27):
, and of course this irritatedEnlil.
So, another 1,200 years goes byand in the next idea Enlil
comes up with his famine, andthat doesn't work very well
either.
Again, enki tips off Atrahasisand gives humanity survival tips
.
Fast forward another 1,200 yearsand now Enlil becomes aware of
(25:49):
a pending cataclysm that willcause them all to be drowned in
a massive flood.
At this time Enlil makes Enki,as well as all the Anunnaki,
swear no's not to help thehumans figure out a way to
survive.
So Enki's oath not to tellanyone, particularly Atrahasis,
that puts him in a bind.
Enki looked very not to tellanyone, particularly Atrahasis,
that puts him in a bind.
Enki looked very favorablytoward humanity, especially
(26:13):
Atrahasis, and did not want tosee any of it eradicated in the
way that Enlil did.
Yet he took his oath seriously,swearing them on his life.
But he was able to work out hisown loophole in this oath by
telling Atrahasis to wait insideof a tent, while Enki would go
(26:34):
stand outside of it.
So the two of them wereseparated by sight with a veil
or a tarp of the tent, with Enkion the opposite side and
Atrahasis on the inside, so hewould speak out, uh, and he
would start to speak out to noone in particular, um, saying
hey, there's a massive floodthat is coming, you know, wipe
(26:57):
out all living creatures.
He spoke aloud that someoneshould prepare yourself the in
your house and build a ship andspurn all your possessions so to
save your life, the ship shouldbe cube-shaped and it should be
waterproof.
He's just saying this to no onein particular, but he's saying
it loud enough so that Atrahasiscan hear it from within the
(27:17):
tent.
Now, there's no mention oftaking in animals and it doesn't
give the impression that thisship was to be all too big, as
there are no dimensions of itgiven, like how we see in
Genesis 6 (27:29):
14-1 6 so, as you can see, inky was very deceptive
and smart.
Laurie (27:37):
Intelligent because he knew that if they asked him, did
you tell anybody.
Well, no, I didn't tell no one.
Which?
Joe (27:45):
echEes to the description of the serpent in the garden of
Eden that he was the craftiestand the most clever of all the
creatures in the garden, andthat does describe Enki as the
craftiest and most clever of allthe Anunnaki Yep.
Laurie (28:01):
Now, this is reminiscent of what is found in the Book of
Enoch, where, in chapter 10,verses 1 through 6, god sends
the angel Uriel to warn Noahabout the flood and then puts
blame on the angels for the evilthings that they taught mankind
.
So you know so we have threedifferent causes here.
First is noise of the humans, ofcourse.
(28:23):
In the Bible, it's the sin ofmankind.
In the books of Enoch, it's thesins of the angels.
So it's also important to notethat Enoch depicts the
appearance of Noah in a verystrange way, and he is said to
glow like the sun, to have hairas white as snow and very bright
(28:44):
blue eyes and very bright blueeyes.
Oddly enough, recent geneticstudies on people's eye color
show that blue eyes are causedby a mutation that occurred
about I believe it was 30,000years ago.
According to the website byLuna DNA, dated back in 2018, I
think it was up to about 10,000years ago, or probably up to
(29:05):
30,000, I don't know for sure,but humans had all I guess they
had brown eyes, or the primates,I guess and it's believed that
a mutation occurred sometimeabout just 10,000 years ago in
the OCA2 gene, which is mainlythe gene responsible for eye
color, and that it can be tracedto first appearing in the area
(29:28):
of the Caucasus Mountains nearthe Black Sea, just due north of
Mesopotamia.
So, could this mutation be aresult of what was identified as
the mating between angels whowould be extraterrestrials, of
course and humans?
So are we products of that?
Are we hybrids?
(29:49):
And after all, the text goes onto say that one of the behaviors
that angered Enlil was thisinterbreeding between Anunnaki
and humans.
It's almost like that Thormovie.
Where was it Jane Thor's loveinterest?
She goes to Asgard and then shewakes up on this table and I
(30:15):
think Odin comes out and he'slike what is this?
She's like a goat.
What is this goat doing in myhouse?
So that's how Enlil viewedhumans like animals, because we
are from the primate.
And if that is so, then couldEnoch be implying that Noah or
Azra Asis was somehow a demigod?
Joe (30:36):
Right.
Well, we find out as the epicgoes along.
God wants to do away with thewickedness of the earth
altogether, which resulted fromthe intermarriage of the sons of
God with the daughters of men,which brought about the Nephilim
, the giants.
This ties in with Genesis 6 andalso ties in with Enoch, where
(31:01):
God is again saying he isgrieved with the offspring of
this intercourse.
This is a displeasure to him.
He's angry with this, he wantsto wipe it out, the corruption.
And this ties in with whatwe're saying with Atrahasis,
where we again see this idea,with the god being enraged, in
this case Enlil.
He's enraged with theintercourse between Anunnaki and
(31:24):
humans and again wants to wipeeverything out because of it.
So we see this theme pop upagain in a much older tradition
of going into the Sumerianmythology.
Remember, these gods, accordingto Sitchin, were actually none
other than alien beings who werejust very advanced in their
(31:46):
knowledge of geology andcelestial mechanics.
They knew full well thatthere's going to be a close
passage of a planet and it wasgoing to result in pretty bad
things happening here.
This deluge seems to havesomething to do with a large ice
sheet breaking off inAntarctica.
The Anunnaki knew this wasgoing to happen, mainly Enlil.
(32:09):
They knew this was going tohappen when their planet
according to Sitchin is Nibirucame near to Earth in one of its
passes and the gravitationalstrain was going to dislodge a
huge glacier, a massive glacierfrom the continent of Antarctica
and thus make the ocean levelsrise very quickly.
Of course, the aliens, whoSitchin conflates with Anunnaki,
(32:34):
had the advantage of being ableto evacuate the earth in order
to avoid themselves being killedby it, since they knew well
ahead of time that it was goingto happen and had the technology
to leave the earth earth wellin low, saying in a few places
that humans weren't meant tolast forever.
Laurie (32:50):
So, yeah, we served our purpose for them and that was it
.
But some of them did care.
Um, some of them were moral andrighteous and didn't want to
see the human race wiped out,like Enki, I guess.
And, on the other hand, eventhe more ethical Anunnaki seemed
to believe that we needed ournumbers to be greatly reduced
(33:13):
and be given a new start.
And, as the story shows, thepost-Diluvial Earth was
different than before.
But it was not the first timeit had changed, and the Anunnaki
knew that, and they would havehad an understanding that,
compared to what we possessed atthe time, would have made them
godlike.
(33:34):
Not only were humanity's numbersgreatly decimated in this flood
, but it also seems likely thatAtlantis, if it existed as a
technological advanced colony onour planet, was also eradicated
because of it.
So, as you can see, noah isAtraasis, aka Hupnapistim, and
(33:55):
Ziusudra, and that is, and thatit is not the sin of man that
you know that made the gods wipecivilization out.
It was our piskiness, ournoisiness, you know.
You can also compare the floodofferings to the sacrifices in
the book of Leviticus that I wastalking about earlier.
You know, before even readingthe Atra Asis I wrote about that
(34:17):
, these sacrifices as nothingmore than food preparations and
offerings for the gods in thebook, that is, to send the
biblical first contact.
Joe (34:27):
Yeah, and I think this noisiness is a noun that
corresponds to something akin todebauchery, drunkenness,
rowdiness, you know basicwickedness.
But the point is the same as inthe scriptures, with people
becoming very upsetting to theLord.
As in the scriptures, withpeople becoming very upsetting
to the Lord and it didn't, andbecause of someone that being
(34:52):
Atrahasis or whoever survived it, we see mankind after this now
is elevated in esteem.
The Atrahasis has Anu and Enlilnow almost amazed at humans.
They are actually nowglorifying the human race,
saying you know, they're worthyof continuing to exist on Earth
because they actually survivedall these attempts for us to
wipe them out.
(35:12):
They must be okay.
And also said that will helpthem survive, although the
Mesopotamian story does havethem limiting the age of humans
to 120 years.
So they will help them, butthey don't want them living
forever either.
And this sounds remarkablysimilar to Noah's story in
(35:35):
Genesis 8-21.
God has taken a remorseful tone, saying that in his heart he
will never again curse the earthfor man's sake.
And he also says yeah, people,you're not going to live forever
, 120 years and you're tappingout yeah, yeah, that's uh,
that's what they took from us tosay.
Laurie (35:55):
That's a comparison with uh in the garden of eat, in the
garden of eden.
You know, we, we becameknowledgeable and knew right
from wrong, to develop theconscious, but then we were
kicked out because we couldn'thave immortality, we couldn't
eat of the tree of life.
And so, according to the OldTestament, at first we had these
hundreds and hundreds of yearsthat some of the patriarchs
(36:16):
lived and their sons anddaughters.
And here we are now, but we'reblessed, I guess, if we make it
to 70.
But there's also another goodcomparison here.
When, you know, the gods lookeddown on humans and thought, well
, they're glorifying the humanrace because of what happened.
But in the Atra Asimis itactually describes this as again
(36:39):
going back to the offerings andthe food.
Remember, when Noah came out ofthe ark, he made an offering to
the Lord and the Bible says andit was a good-smelling savor or
good aroma to the Lord.
Well, that's this.
That's this.
Atra Asis explains this.
As the gods were hungry becausethey were up circling around
the earth during this flood andthey were running out of food.
(37:02):
They were starving around theearth during this flood and
they're running out of food.
They were starving.
So when they came down, humans,noah and his family, whatever
prepared these sacrifices, whichare none other than meal
preparations, and they were sothankful for the humans for
doing that.
But if this flood did indeedoccur at the end of the last ice
age, around 13,000 BC, then itwas most likely after this that
(37:27):
people were taught such thingsas the agriculture and husbandry
and then, not long after, theybegan to start civilization all
over again.
So the planet Nibiru makes acouple more passes, such as
around 11,000 BC and then againaround 7,500 BC, with the
Anunnaki then assisting mankindin the domestication of animals
(37:50):
and the construction ofbuildings.
3800 BC, the Sumeriancivilization is found to be in
full bloom now and man hadlearned to teach mathematics,
(38:11):
astronomy, chemistry and writing, among other things.
And after this, mesopotamianmythology has the Anunnaki
dividing the earth into regions,with Enki and his descendants
given rule over Africa andEnlila's descendants given rule
over Eurasia.
And this sounds very close towhat is in the Bible, with the
regions of earth being dividedup by Noah's three sons, shem,
(38:32):
ham and Japheth.
Joe (38:34):
Yeah, and just to make note on the lifespans of people in
the Anunnaki in the Sumerianking list, it gives the period
of time of the reign that thesekings had as being in the tens
of thousands of years.
Their lifespans were tens ofthousands, maybe even hundreds
of thousands of years.
So the idea of waiting 1,200years for the next go-round or
(38:57):
600 years for the next go-roundto make an attempt to do
something was nothing to them.
And of course Ab Atrahasis isone of these kings on that list.
His lifespan would have been inthe tens of thousands that we
must assume, as all the otherindividuals on that Sumerian
(39:18):
king list were mentioned ashaving these reigns that were
22,000, 17,000 years.
So this idea of shortening thelifespan to 120, that was really
confounding, to sort of thecomparison of making these
humans anything like God.
That showed you aren't evengoing to be close.
Your lifespan is going to beminiscule compared to ours and
(39:42):
that's echoed also in the bookof Genesis.
So this whole flood narrative,really it's important to
consider the later theologicalconstructs that developed from
it through the hermeneutics andit became incorporated into the
Christian canon.
You know water is used tosymbolize the cleansing of sin
and return to the original stateof perfection, kind of like in
(40:04):
the Garden of Eden.
And that's also a way to bemanifested in the ritual of
baptism Water cleans, waterpurifies, and there's also the
meaning of divine wrath found inthe teachings of the flood, as
well as divine mercy andredemption.
So that's all brought into thesort of elements of this story
(40:24):
and the parallel found betweenthe earth being rid of
wickedness and evil ways throughthe submersion of water.
The old world is gone and a newone comes forth from it.
Just as it's taught through ourhermeneutics that water
submersion removes the old selfof sin and is done away with and
a new self comes out, cleansed.
And this is one of the firstrituals found in Christianity.
(40:46):
Actually it's based on the ideaof life being renewed, a person
being renewed.
Just as with the flood, allcreated life on earth was
renewed.
And this is implied in thewords of Jesus when he tells the
Samaritan woman at the well inJohn 4, 7 through 14, that he is
the living water.
The one who drinks it willbecome a springing well to
(41:08):
eternal life.
So there's a deeper, morefigurative and more spiritual
theme that has been applied inthis scriptural use of water.
That goes all the way back tothe story of the flood.
Perhaps you can say it's anesoteric use.
Religious thinkers from allover have studied and meditated
upon the story of the deluge,but it's also been realized in
(41:31):
the literal telling of it, ofthe cataclysm itself, and for
the most part it is always toldthe same way among all of the
world's religions A deity who isreally angry with humanity, and
in so much so he tries to wipeit out and allows a few people
and animals to survive, but inthe end, uh, humanity is
purified by those people who domanage to survive in some
(41:54):
special way right and um.
Laurie (41:58):
what you need to pick up here is is what is stated in
the Bible verses that Ipreviously read that God was
sorry for creating humans andthat his heart was filled with
pain.
Okay, folks, now this is whatwe mean by the characteristics
of the biblical God, just notmatching with our indoctrinated
worldview of him that we havetoday.
(42:20):
So this and what we read fromAtreus, this all indicates that
he made a mistake and that hehas feelings, or they have
feelings and a heart that feelspain.
So he, god, has what you mightcall buyer's remorse.
So how much clearer can you beon this God or these gods being
(42:44):
organic flesh and blood?
We've said many times in ourepisodes that we see this
throughout the Bible and otherreligious texts too.
The gods are indeedextraterrestrial in that they
are not of this world.
Yes, in that way they are notlike us, but they are creatures,
physical creatures withmaterial bodies, not spirits or
(43:05):
ghosts, and in that way they arelike us.
Joe (43:10):
Yeah, and like us, being as organic beings with flesh and
blood, as you say, they are notinfallible or impeccable or
omnipotent.
They may be more advanced thanus by far, but they are not God.
Just think of them as such.
And the occurrence of the floodwas predicted by them, not
(43:31):
initiated by them.
It was due to their tremendousknowledge, technical knowledge,
that they could foresee what wasabout to happen that there was
going to be an increase in tidalfriction compounded with the
instability of the Antarctic icesheets.
And this is a recount of thestory of Noah and the
construction of his ark, butit's a lot more elaborated.
(43:53):
The Enuma Elish and the Book ofEnoch they both give much more
detail that I've always thoughtwe were at a disadvantage for
not being taught more in Biblestudies about this.
This was kind of always kind of, you know, obscured and hidden
from us.
As you know, this is notincluded in the canon and we
(44:13):
find in the verses you know,like when Noah was born he
looked completely different frommost babies and that he was as
white as snow, his face shone asbrightly as the sun and he
could speak to the Lord withrighteousness.
And we find this also in apseudoepicological manuscript
(44:35):
called the Book of Noah,referenced in seven chapters of
Enoch.
It's also called the Book ofJubilees, but other than that
it's non-existent.
It's an apocryphal writingsthat, you know, we're not really
taught unless we go andresearch it ourselves.
But they are found in the DeadSea Scrolls, which were dated to
(44:57):
the second and first centuriesBC.
So really, until the Dead SeaScrolls came to light, the
pseudo-epigraphal manuscriptswere virtually unknown to
everybody.
Laurie (45:08):
Correct.
And now, in Genesis, noah isthe son of Lamech, and he's also
the great son of Enoch.
His name is said to meancomfort.
So it says that Noah foundgrace in the eyes of the Lord,
or in the eyes of Yahweh, asit's supposedly read, that he
was a just and perfect man andthat he walked with God.
(45:29):
That's about all that is givenconcerning him.
However, in Enoch 105, more isrevealed about his origin.
Lamech is fearful at the sightof Noah and goes to his father,
methuselah, to say that he hasbegotten a strange son who is
not human.
That's interesting, but insteadhe resembles an angel, just
(45:51):
like I said earlier.
So Methuselah in turn seeks thecounsel of his father, enoch,
who tells him that the infantwill survive a great destruction
and he, along with his threesons.
He also assures Methuselah, andin turn Lamech, that Noah is
indeed a child that belongs tohim.
So you know, we do have tobelieve that there was indeed a
(46:15):
flood, at least some kind offlood, and that it was a pretty
big one at that, but also onethat it didn't likely cover the
whole planet, like we talkedabout, but certainly did cover
large areas of where people wereliving.
Now let's go back to the Enoch10.2.3, where God orders Uriel
(46:36):
to go down and meet with Noah inattempt to warn him about this.
You know coming delusion.
Instruct him on how to preparefor it.
Joe (46:47):
Right and it parallels pretty much the Genesis telling
of preparation with an ark andto get himself and his family
into it and thus save himself.
Not much in terms of gettingthe animals onto the Ark.
It vaguely hints at trying tosave some other creatures.
(47:10):
It's kind of odd that theHebrew writers decided to be
that detailed about the Arkitself and not so much about
Noah and his beginning.
Here, when he's born, he glowslike the sun and his hair is as
white as snow.
They seem to be focused more onthe dimensions and numerology
(47:36):
involved with describing the Ark.
The numerology had a lot to dowith important in Jewish
theology in terms of showingconnection with the divine and
also covenant with the divine,which is what the ark is.
It's much like the ark of thecovenant, showing a connection
with God, what this was inGenesis and perhaps why the
(48:05):
Hebrew scribes spent that timekind of painstakingly detailing
the building of the ark morethan like Enoch does and
certainly more than theAtrahasis does, where it just
says, yeah, build a ship that'sa cube shape like a square boat.
But you know there is plenty ofevidence to be studied to show
that the earth and its climatehave transformed quite a bit
(48:25):
through its 4.5 billion yearhistory Long periods of warming,
followed by long periods ofcooling, and there have been
five known ice ages, and thensubsequent periods of warming
and the melting of those iceages, and then again more
warming periods.
Warming and the melting ofthose ice ages, and then again
more warming periods.
So it's in this macro cyclethat scientists attribute to
(48:47):
plate tectonics and solaractivity orbital factors of the
Earth.
But it seems like thisparticular deluge had endured in
our cultural memories more sothan any other cataclysm that
occurred on Earth.
This definitely puts us on thebrink of extinction.
The story of the flood Even ifyou believe that more than eight
(49:09):
people survived it, it probablytook a lot of lives back then.
We have no idea of knowingexactly how many.
Just going by the biblicalnarrative, it was only eight.
Laurie (49:23):
Yeah, so far we have the three different stories about
it Atrahasis, the book ofGenesis and the book of Enoch.
So how do we know which one iscorrect?
I mean, I guess it should bethe original one, I guess the
Sumerian story, that would bethe one that was first recorded
and therefore less likely to bea myth.
(49:44):
Enoch and Genesis would then beconsidered or condensed, would
be condensed and paraphrasedversions based on the Babylonian
account, which in turn waspassed down from the Sumerian
account.
Joe (49:59):
Yeah, and since around 1830 , there have been several
theories put forth to reconcilethe elements of the flood
narratives and the creationnarrative as well with the
current discoveries in thenatural sciences, and they've
been coined different names likeflood, geology, scientific
creationism, young earth,intelligent design, theistic
(50:22):
evolution, young earth,intelligent design, theistic
evolution.
But they often run into theproblem that they are less with
semantics and more with thestructuralism, and we see this
in how the biblical writerscommunicated and understood the
concepts of cosmology.
They were inaccurate.
The epistemological modelsprevalent in the ancient Hebrews
and it talks about thisthroughout the scripture that
(50:45):
there existed a firmament abovethe earth and an abyss below it
and that water surroundedeverything.
So this idea of a sphericalearth didn't seem to come around
until later on, you know time,of Greek thinkers like Euclid,
Aristoteles and Ptolemy, andI've actually seen some diagrams
that are kind of interesting.
They illustrate this idea offlat terra upheld by pillars
(51:10):
that have fountains going downto the waters below in the abyss
, which eventually connect tothe oceans, and then you have
the sky over the ground andoceans, with the sun, moon and
planets and stars moving in thisdome in which everything is
encapsulated.
So everything's kind of beyondthe firmament where there's
water.
So it's a strange kind of thingto try to visualize that
(51:32):
there's this big old dome ofwater up in the sky and above.
That is where the sun and themoon and the stars are all at,
and it has floodgates, or whatthey call windows of heaven
holding these waters above, andsometimes referred to as the
expanse, and likewise below theground, but above is an abyss
(51:55):
called Sheol or Hades, andthat's the abode of the dead.
So this whole universe is sortof inside what would be like
look like a snow shaker globe.
And when we read about thefountains and the floodgates
opening and dumping watereverywhere, we have to know that
somehow misconstrued andmisunderstood process of nature.
But it was something else washappening to bring all that
(52:17):
water out of the sky and thenout of the ground.
But it was believed back then,uh, that it was from the
firmament and the abyss.
That's the belief thatpersisted.
And actually it wasn't untilabout 65 years ago that the
Vatican had formallyacknowledged that there actually
was no such thing as afirmament or an abyss and that
(52:39):
the mention of it in Genesis isfully it really is allegorical
truths.
No-transcript.
Laurie (52:50):
Yeah, correct, it's the ancient mind trying to describe
how this all happened.
Because they weren't outsidethe planet, they haven't
discovered these things.
So, yeah, we are not flatearthers at all.
We definitely believe that theEarth is spherical, but they
didn't know at the time.
(53:11):
But with all of our technologyand advancements, we know that
for a fact.
But what's interesting to knowis that the Bible mentions that
God had not allowed it to rainon the earth up until the start
of the flood, and it said that amist would a vapor that once
(53:40):
covered the earth.
So I believe that before theflood came, this vapor was thick
enough to block out much of thesun's rays.
Again, maybe not the entireplanet, but certain regions,
possibly, obviously in the oneswhere the Bible stories are told
.
So, after the tilting of theEarth and the shifting of the
(54:01):
poles caused by thegravitational pull of a large
body, that could either be whenthe moon was put in place, as
the Zulu shaman also stated,dragged there by two god
brothers, and then the earthtilted and turned on its side
(54:24):
because the moon was hollowedout and dragged across the solar
system and placed there, or itcould be Nibiru, like we said
earlier, coming in closeproximity.
Anyway, this all started newweather patterns, including rain
.
So the vapor and mist haddissipated and the sun's rays
were now able to fully penetratethe atmosphere, causing a new
phenomenon.
You guessed it that's therainbow.
(54:45):
And this wasn't some greatmiracle or a promise by God at
all.
This is what happens whensunlight is refracted through
the raindrops to cause theoptical spectrum to be seen in
what we know as the rainbow.
So this was not seen in theatmosphere, at least not very
(55:06):
often in the times before theflood.
That Genesis is most likely ashortened rendition of both the
Enumelish creation myth, theAtrahasis flood myth and other
Sumerian tales preserved in theAkkadian script.
And we shouldn't take thebiblical story as accurate at
(55:27):
face value.
And not only do you have thehighest mountains completely
submerged, which would beimpossible, you also have only
Noah and his family who weresaved, plus a male and female of
each species that made it ontothe ark, which would also be
impossible.
And just as inconceivable isthe idea that all of the world
(55:48):
is going to be replenished withhuman and animal life in this
way.
And one more thing to noteabout that is remember the story
of Joshua going into the landof Canaan when they sent the
spies.
The spies saw that there weregiants living in Canaan.
So how could there be giants ifthe whole flood had destroyed
(56:11):
everything on it except for Noahand his family?
Joe (56:14):
A few Nephilim survived.
The flood is what it'ssuggesting and I think most you
know theologians accept that inGenesis' allegory, that it is a
symbol.
So you know, the elements ofthe story would tell a
scriptural truth, more so than aliteral, factual telling of
(56:35):
what happened at some point inEarth's history.
I mean, don't forget plant life.
You said that all human lifeand animal life would be
destroyed in this way, accordingto the narrative.
But if there was a deluge ofthis magnitude it would kill
tremendous amounts of trees andgrass and bushes.
Even aquatic vegetationwouldn't survive the changes in
(56:57):
salinity, temperature, claritythere's, nutrient concentration,
water, light penetration.
Fish wouldn't survive either,for the same reasons that I'm
mentioning.
So too much of the ecosystemwould have been altered and we
don't find any evidence of thatfrom the fossil records, not
(57:18):
from the time that we're talkingof, between 11,000 to 13,000
years ago, when we believe thatthis deluge would have occurred.
Nor do we find conclusiveevidence of the remains of
Noah's Ark or Atrahasis' Arkbeing on Mount Ararat or
anywhere else, even though therehave been many claims that it's
(57:39):
there and has been seen and hasbeen touched.
Regardless of that, it's neverbeen conclusively shown that
that has been found, but thiswhole argument about the literal
interpretation of the floodaccount has been around for
quite a while and is one thatmany people still hold on, even
now, right, so, uh, we'll wrapit up there, as there are more
(58:04):
ancient texts that we would liketo discuss in the upcoming
future and that also come fromthe ancient world, and another
one that we would like to getinto is the epic of Gilgamesh
world, and another one that wewould like to get into is the
epic of Gilgamesh, and we mostlikely will do that on our next
show.
However, there are some otherplans that are floating around
right now that Lori and I havethat may change up the line, the
(58:27):
lineup of shows.
If that's the case, we'll letyou know.
What are we posting on ourFacebook page, and we might be
able to bring on another guestwith us for discussion on a
completely different topic, but,as of now, we're looking
forward to the next episodebeing about the epic of
Gilgamesh.
Either way, we'll be back withyou at the end of June or
(58:47):
beginning of July.
Laurie (58:49):
Yeah, and as always, folks, you know, please leave us
a comment on the episodes weput together.
And also don't forget to visitus on our YouTube channel and,
you know, hit subscribe and likethat really helps us out.
Check out our website, alientalk podcast dot com.
And, you know, there you cansee the links for our books and
(59:12):
and you can listen to theepisodes there if you want as
well, and see some of theguests' bios and our bio of you
know.
So.
Joe (59:22):
Yeah, and we should also mention that our last episode
with Miles Spencer is now onYouTube, if you want to give it
a watch.
So thank you all for yoursupport and, as always, stay
curious.
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