June 25, 2025 • 47 mins
The ancient and profound Epic of Gilgamesh holds far more than just mythological storytelling—it contains clues to humanity's possible extraterrestrial origins. As we explore this Mesopotamian masterpiece dating back to 2100 B.C., we unravel fascinating connections between Sumerian accounts and Biblical narratives that suggest common source material predating both traditions.
Many mistake Gilgamesh for the Mesopotamian equivalent of Noah, but the flood survivor in this epic is actually Utnapishtim, whom Gilgamesh seeks out during his quest for immortality. The wild beast-man Enkidu, created by gods to challenge Gilgamesh, represents what might be evidence of the "gods" carrying out genetic hybridization experiments. Sumerian artwork depicts mutated creatures that appear distinctly non-human, raising questions about what these representations may truly document.
The creation accounts found in Akkadian texts describe how the Anunnaki gods created humans as a workforce, with passages stating they mixed their divine DNA with existing primitive beings. This aligns remarkably with the unexplained evolutionary leap that separated Homo sapiens from other hominids. Despite sharing nearly identical DNA with chimpanzees and coexisting with Neanderthals, humans developed unprecedented cognitive abilities and self-awareness. Could this advancement have resulted from external genetic manipulation?
Both Gilgamesh's epic and the Bible share striking elements—sacred cedar forests, serpents that prevent immortality, divine beings with physical needs, and giants among men. Such parallels suggest these stories preserve memories of actual events involving advanced beings who were interpreted as prehistoric peoples as gods. The quest for immortality that drives Gilgamesh mirrors humanity's eternal struggle with the meaning and purpose of life, a theme that continue to resonate across cultures to this day.
Join us as we examine this remarkable archaic story through the lens of the ancient alien theory, considering the compelling possibility that our creation myths contain literal truths about extraterrestrial intervention in human evolution. If our search for meaning is actually encoded memories of our origins, what other secrets might these ancient texts reveal?
"Space Journey" by Geoff Harvey
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joe (00:02):
Hello and thank you for joining us on Alien Talk Podcast
.
This is the show where wediscuss all things about aliens
and UFOs and, as always, wherewe push the limits of our
understanding about subjectsthat pertain to the existence of
extraterrestrial intelligence,the presence of UFOs and perhaps
even the very meaning of lifeitself here on our noble planet.
(00:22):
We explore the mysteries of thecosmos and the enshrouded
secrets of our world's history,constantly pondering what is out
there in the far reaches ofspace and asking questions about
what our ancestors encounteredin all those wondrous and
revered stories from the distantpast.
So, the last time we were withyou, we explored a bit of the
Atra-Hasis, a very ancientAkkadian story that tells of a
(00:46):
wise and noble priest-king whosurvives a great flood.
Atrahasis, the main character,exhibits noticeable similarities
to Noah, as is found vis-a-visin the Bible.
Just like the Enuma Elish, whichwe also talked about, it
alludes to themes that deal withthe beginnings of human
existence on earth, with thegods creating man and woman and
(01:09):
them becoming greatly displeasedwith how their work turned out,
a massive flood coming thatkills almost everyone, and then
a restart to civilization with afew survivors who perpetuate
the human life here on theplanet.
This is covered in the first 12chapters of Genesis to form what
we know as a narrative in theJudeo-Christian canon, in which
God, the Lord, is the centralactive player who stands in for
(01:33):
the pantheon of Mesopotamiandeities.
Now, these epic poems form thecore mythology that is preserved
in Akkadian script and come tous in the form that we have from
Babylonian and Assyriantraditions which, from what many
scholars speculate, wasborrowed from the Sumerians and
then later passed on to othercultures of the ancient world,
(01:56):
one of them being the Hebrews,who eventually gave us the Holy
Bible, as well as the Greeks,egyptians and pretty much
everyone else, and we find inall of them a human relationship
with the divine.
But there is also another storythat, like the Enuma, Elish and
the Atra-Hasis, it richlyportrays the source material
that is interwoven throughoutall these cultures as they have
(02:19):
been transmitted down from theSumerians.
That one is known as the Epicof Gilgamesh, dating to around
the 22nd century B.
C.
, and Laurie, that would put itbefore the time of the
composition of those otherpieces of Mesopotamian
literature that we know of,wouldn't it?
Laurie (02:39):
Yeah, I believe so, Joe.
The Epic of Gilgamesh is one ofthe earliest surviving pieces
of ancient mythology, if not theearliest piece.
Not only is it an epic poem ofheroic deeds, incredible
adventures, and it acquists forthe divine, but it puts forth
(02:59):
many timeless and tantalizingphilosophical questions.
In much the same way the Biblestories do.
Like the Enumeration, theAtra-Hasis.
It was found in the 1850s andthe 1860s on cuneiform clay
tablets within the library ofAshurbanipal, among the ruins of
(03:20):
the ancient Assyrian city ofNineveh, modern-day Iraq.
Unlike those ones that dated toaround 700 to 600 BC of the
ancient Assyrian city of Nineveh, modern-day Iraq.
Unlike those ones that dated toaround 700 to 600 B.
C.
, the tablets of the Epic ofGilgamesh are believed to be
dated to between 1300 and 1100 B.
C.
, so they are older scripts.
(03:48):
Now many people are familiarwith Gilgamesh, or at least they
have heard mention of him,possibly through scriptural
studies or through books thatcover biblical commentary and
history, in which it is used toshow a parallel narrative about
the flood which is supposed tosupport the validity of the
Genesis account.
Further, one thing in that alot of people make the mistake
(04:10):
in their assumption is thatGilgamesh is to be thought of as
the equivalent character ofNoah, like it is the same story
of Noah but just with adifferent name, which is
incorrect.
But Gilgamesh is asemi-mythical king of Uruk and
as the central character heseeks or confronts the issues of
(04:33):
mortality, friendship, loyalty,divinity and overall the search
for meaning in life.
The person who most closelyresembles the identity of Noah
is someone called Utnapishtim,who Gilgamesh eventually meets
and finds out that he hadsurvived the great flood.
So the opinion or presumptionout there that somehow that some
(04:58):
have about this, you know, epicof Gilgamesh being the
retelling of Noah's Ark from adifferent culture is not
entirely accurate.
Joe (05:06):
Yeah, that's right, and of course you know there's also the
matter of how post-Diluvianchronology it doesn't really
line up with Gilgamesh, with thenarrative.
This story of Gilgamesh takesus back to about 2100 B.
C.
, when Utnapishtim isencountered.
2100 BC, when Utnapishtim isencountered and it is not an
(05:28):
ordinary type of encounter, asUtnapishtim and his wife are
found to live for eternity in arealm that is something like
Shangri-La, something likeanother dimension, something
called the Celestial Abode andhe tells Gilgamesh that this
great flood had happened a long,long time before that, like
thousands of years before that.
Well, from a standpoint ofapologetics, this particular
(05:49):
source does bear many of thesame factors and elements as the
Genesis account, as Utnaphistimrelays to Gilgamesh all the
details about the ship and itsdimensions and the animals there
were only some animals, not twoof every animal as well as also
how it rested on a mountain andall that.
(06:10):
All those other features of thestory seem to be similar to the
narrative by Utnapishtim.
However, the timeline in whichwe're impressed in the Epic of
Gilgamesh is one that goes muchfurther back than we tend to
take away from a reading of the3rd through 11th chapters of
Genesis.
We even see that Genesis 9: 28-2 9, has Noah living for 350 (06:27):
undefined
years after the flood, with atotal lifespan of 950 years, not
an eternal life.
Another thing to highlight isthat the Epic of Gilgamesh and
the Atra-Hasis and the EnumaElish were brought to everyone's
(06:48):
knowledge.
They weren't brought toeveryone's knowledge until after
the excavation of Ninevehduring the Victorian era, that
is, when the clay tablets werefound that contained these texts
.
However, these stories had beenknown to poets, philosophers
and even theologians for quitesome time, all the way back to
antiquity.
A Babylonian priest of Belnamed Berusus wrote about the
(07:11):
flood myth and the heroic talesof Gilgamesh in the 3rd century
BC, as did Alexander of Miletus,a Greek historian of the 1st
century BC, and it was uncommonfor medieval monasteries to keep
copies of manuscriptscontaining pagan mythology, and
Gilgamesh was one of the onesthat were kept.
So these stories were known toliterate people for quite a long
(07:33):
time, although they did becomesort of re-energized or
re-inspired after thearchaeological discoveries of
the library of Ashurbanipal,something that contributed to a
rise in theosophy, spiritualismand occultism in the early 1900s
, which we see with individualslike Helena Blavatsky, Edgar
(07:55):
Cayce and Arthur Conan Doyle.
Even the analyticalpsychologist Carl Jung was
somehow influenced by therenewal of this ancient wisdom,
which was brought about by thesearchaeological discoveries.
Laurie (08:10):
Yeah, and the Bible.
These epics from Sumerianmythology continue to this day
to be relevant in the landscapesof Western culture and religion
.
So this shows how the work ofstorytellers of the past have
endured and how they connectuniversally to the human
experience.
From Gilgamesh we get a goodglimpse into the ancient way of
(08:33):
thinking and their societalstructures, and it starts off
with a vivid portrayal of Yurik,showcasing its architectural
splendor and political hierarchy, which is supported by
archaeological discoveries thatreveal how the Sumerians were
very advanced and a wellorganized civilization.
(08:55):
There are references toziggurats, temples, irrigation
canals, and these correspond towhat has been on earth, adding a
good bit of literary andhistorical truthfulness to this
epic.
And Gilgamesh parallels theAtra-Hasis.
That tells of how the godscreated these irrigation canals
(09:21):
to nourish the land, enablinghumans to cultivate crops and
provide food and offerings for asacred feast to be given to
them.
And this concept also resonateswith the account found in the
book of Leviticus, with the Lordcommanding the Israelites to
give a daily offering of meatand grain and wine and all sorts
(09:44):
of things like that Even theauthors were made of.
The authors in Leviticus evenhad to have spoons and forks and
knives on it.
So, yeah, it was a little morethan daily sacrifices.
They were meal preparations.
Joe (09:58):
Yeah right, and the story character of Gilgamesh was
probably inspired by theSumerian king of the same name,
who reigned around 2800 to 2500B.
C.
, a time period known as theThird Dynasty of Ur.
While his exploits in thenarrative feature many mythical
elements, like encounters withgods and monsters, his kingship
(10:22):
and the city's prominence mayvery well have been rooted in
historical accuracy.
He is depicted as a demigod,much like in the way Hercules is
portrayed in Greek mythology,and even in some way he is
comparable to King David fromthe Bible.
And actually, there are someliterary scholars who believe
that the tales about Gilgameshbear much influence in the
(10:44):
composition of Homer's work, theIliad and the Odyssey, which
were written sometime after 1100BC.
Now this whole saga isbasically divided into two parts
.
The first half involves theaudacious plight of Gilgamesh as
the king of Uruk, and there'san enigmatic figure called
(11:06):
Enkidu, who was a wild man,actually a monstrous beast man,
and he was created by the godsin order to stop Gilgamesh in
his seemingly harsh rule overthe people of the city-state of
Uruk.
At least in their minds he washarsh.
Now, this element is prettycommonly found in mythology,
with the gods creating somegrossly mutated human or
(11:28):
something in animal form that issent to fight the protagonist.
You know, in Greek mythologythere is the minotaur.
In the Nordic legends there arethe Berserkers, then there's
also the Chimera, which is likea hybrid creature that has a
lion's body, a goat's head onits back and a serpent's tail,
(11:49):
and of course there is thesphinx.
All monstrous creatures thatthere are Akkadian texts
describing how Ea omens overimperfections that were derived
(12:09):
in his creation of manessentially hybridization,
experience of his that had gonewrong.
And there are also stonereliefs and statues that have
been found in places likeNineveh, sippur and Ur that
depict these beastly-lookinghumanoid characters that seem to
be something like part bull orpart lion or even part fish.
(12:30):
So this raises the question ofwhether such ghastly creatures
may have possibly existed at onepoint in time and have been
thus recorded in the artwork andthe literature of Babylon and
Assyria thus recorded in theartwork and the literature of
Babylon and Assyria, and itseems like the character of
(12:52):
Enkidu fits this sort ofclassification of such beings.
That would be a result of whatwe would call faulty genetic
engineering, hybridization.
You know, genetic engineeringprojects that had gone wrong and
created these mutants, terriblelooking beasts.
Laurie (13:04):
Yeah, yeah, and we are.
I've always said it, we arehybrids.
So, according to the story,gilgamesh must have, or must not
have been a very good king,even though the whole thing
begins with a poem that is inpraise of him.
He may have actually been quitea tyrant.
(13:25):
After Enkidu is civilizedthrough sexual initiation with
Shamhat, who is often viewed asa prostitute, introducing him to
the ways of civilization, whichto me is a little bit
reminiscent of the Tarzan story.
So, following thetransformation, enkidu travels
(13:46):
to Yurik, challenging Gilgameshto a contest of strength.
Although Gilgamesh ultimatelyprevails, the two forge a strong
friendship, showcasingGilgamesh's impressive strength.
And he must have been a demigod, especially considering that
Enkidu appears to be a wild man,perhaps a remnant of a primate,
(14:08):
or even a Homo erectus.
Do you see the connection to theancient alien theory that I'm
attempting to make here?
Yeah, so evolutionists arguethat humans evolved from
primates through naturalselection, without divine
intervention.
Which creationists claim adivine being created?
(14:31):
Humans.
However, if we are uniquelymade in God's image, why do we
share 99% of our DNA withchimpanzees?
You know, this biological factcontrasts with the biblical
account of humans formed fromthe dust and clay.
Now, when we go to the ancientalien theory we find a proposed
(14:52):
hypothesis that incorporatesboth evolution and creation.
In the Sumerian mythology, thegod Enki declares A being
already exists.
Let us put our mark upon it,let us create a primitive worker
so that we might have our ease.
This is where I believe they,our alien gods, created the
(15:13):
first species of early humans,possibly from the genome of the
primates such as the Homoerectus or probably even
Cro-Magnon man.
The popular belief in theancient alien theory, I think,
(15:35):
is Homo erectus, but this beingwas strong and robust and able
to perform the difficulties ofslave labor, and it wasn't until
an upgrade was needed that webecame self-aware beings, known
now as the Homo sapiens speciesthinking man, wise man.
So in his book Genes, Giants,Monsters, and Men, Joseph
Farrell discusses translationsof ancient Mesopotamian texts
that describe the creation ofhumans, and one passage dating
(15:58):
back nearly 3,000 years readsthey summon Mami, the life
creator.
Now Mami is where we get theword mommy, mom, saying you are
the biological expert.
We want you to create a Lulu toperform tasks for Enlil and
take on the labor.
(16:18):
Now Pharaoh suggests mankindwas created both as laborers and
as hybrids of gods andpre-existing hominids.
Another passage states and fromhis blood, the lady of creation
mixed the cultures.
After she did this, she notifiedthe Anunnaki lords and the
(16:40):
lordlings possibly the Igigi orother Anunnaki and provided
their sperm for the lifecultures.
Now Enki then says that thelordlings and man will be
hybridized in the culture.
Now he said, let the hybridreceive spirit, consciousness,
(17:01):
from the lordling's flesh, andthen let's not forget that
living man will have a spirit.
So pharaoh explains that theAnunnaki refer to clay being
mixed with spittle, which may beinterpreted as semen and
subsequently incubated in 14goddesses for the conception of
(17:21):
the adamu right.
Joe (17:24):
So we see in.
You know, there are componentsin Sumerian mythology that
describe the creation of humans,called Adamu, in a place called
Edan, which sounds a lot likeEden, the Garden of Eden.
Similarly, the Bible mentionsAdam being created at that place
.
Both sources involve a pluralconcept of God, elohim.
(17:45):
This is in the Bible as well,where there is a plurality given
of God at the time of thecreation of man and woman and
really everything, as well as inthe Anunnaki, which are plural,
and that's found in theSumerian text.
We refer to the creation inmale and female forms.
(18:06):
There are deities are also inmale and female forms.
So while hermeneutics can offermetaphorical explanations for
these features, and in theliterature the straightforward
illustration seems to suggestthat the creators were flesh and
blood beings and that theycreated other beings in their
(18:29):
own image, just as we see it,man and woman with bodily form.
And interpreting thisdifferently leads to a lot of
subjective analysis, criticism,sometimes even overreaching into
trying to define something inwhich there is no tangible basis
for coming up with thatexplanation.
(18:51):
This is where apologetics willaccept non-physical entities
creating physical ones, and thatposes a big problem for logical
thinking and for what weunderstand of in the philosophy
of science.
Laurie (19:08):
Well, the correct answer may come from interpreting the
straightforward meaning.
Numerous verses describe Yahweh, the Hebrew God, eating,
drinking, resting, walking, andso this is all implying that he
was a physical being.
Now creationists argue againstthis due to their religious
(19:28):
indoctrination.
The power of faith can leadpeople to ignore tangible
evidence, sticking to beliefsabout the afterlife despite the
contradictions.
If texts say that he ate, drank, walked and descended in a
cloud or a chariot of fire,perhaps it should be taken
literally.
I mean that part of the text.
(19:49):
And it may be just that, thatthe biblical text should just be
taken at face value, whichmeans that we have flesh and
blood creators in the plural,who have incredible abilities.
So if you look at the cosmicscale, on the cosmic scale, the
250,000 to 300,000 years it tookfor our species to become
(20:12):
almost sapiens is almostinstantaneous.
And it is believed that aroundthis time alien genetic
engineering began to influencehuman development.
And in our last episode aboutthe Atraasis, we discussed how
this alien race was mining goldin Africa and sought relief from
(20:32):
their labor, just like we werequoting from the text of the
ancient text earlier.
According to the Atra-Hasis,the Anunnaki leaders, that be it
, Anu, Enlil and Enki, possiblymaybe that's where we get the
Trinity from but they decided tocreate a worker species,
essentially a beast of burden,right, strong or robust.
(20:54):
So artifacts have been foundthat depict these gods
performing hybridization tocreate what would be known as
Adam or man, in particular inparticular.
Joe (21:10):
Interestingly, these depictions in Sumerian and
Egyptian cylinder seals alsoshow the gods not only making
humans in laboratory settings,but they're making some
monstrous creatures.
These would be the experimentsthat have essentially gone wrong
(21:30):
and resulted in deformities andimperfections, and it's taken
them a while to perfect thewhole process.
One might wonder if these arejust simply allegorical
illustrations of them creatinghumans, possibly, but in Genesis
we have God already being inexistence, saying let us make
(21:52):
man in our image, according toour likeness.
Now, this suggests geneticmanipulation rather than a
spiritual creation.
As we are simply talking aboutlikeness, we're not really
talking about anything in termsof the essence, the sort of
characteristics or what is inthe heart of the creation, but
(22:14):
the creation itself, thephysical body.
So this seems to imply, fromthe interpretation directly from
the text, that our creatorsmight be nothing more than
beings from another worldsomewhere in our universe, and
that the ancient alien theorypresents this idea as an
alternative interpretation ofthe story of mankind's origin.
Laurie (22:38):
Yeah, correct, and it's important to note that people
believe the Biblical narrativeon faith, not evidence.
So I mean we can bring forthour arguments, but the proof
we're looking for may just beDNA.
That may be the proof, nothingabout the spirit of God or
(22:59):
something supernatural, but thechemical manipulation within the
very chromosomes of an omittedcreature that was already here
through the lengthy processes ofevolution.
That biochemical manipulationwas caused by something else
(23:21):
that also was already here tohydrodize our DNA with its DNA.
That other DNA, I believe, iswhat is made by God, quote
unquote in the creation story.
Joe (23:31):
Yes, and there were many types of hominids that inhabited
the earth we know that frompaleontological evidence and
there were humanoid species likeHomo erectus, Homo habilis,
Homo neanderthalus, but we Homosapiens, we outwitted and
performed all of them.
How did this happen?
(23:52):
How do we outperform otherspecies when we're all on the
same evolutionary timeline?
It was an incredible leap inmaking Homo sapiens sentient,
intelligent and consciouscreatures when we were really in
the same environment.
We're in the same.
You know environment.
(24:14):
You know we're in the sameecosystem.
There's nothing that reallyshould have made us advance any
better than another species, yetwe did considerably.
The question is did someoutside factor or outside force
and intelligence become involvedand create us into the thinking
and wise species that we aretoday, or at least we should be?
(24:37):
All of us would say yes, as isrevealed in our beliefs in God,
and asking who or what God is isimpossible to answer.
The definition of God is tooabstract for us to come up with
a single independent mode or wayto think about him, and
everything about him transcendsour understanding.
(24:58):
So we can certainly ask isthere something that could be
the so-called DNA of God and ifso, how would it be noticeable?
And there are notions thatdeities are giants.
So could giant size be one ofthe features of divinity?
We do find descriptions of thatin several books of the Bible
(25:22):
about giants.
Genesis has these giants asbeing descendants of the sons of
God.
So there's a connection betweenthat feature of being big with
being divine.
We definitely think of God asbeing big.
We never think of him as beinga small entity.
He's larger than anything hedoesn't occupy any volume in
(25:47):
space, but when we do think ofhim as humanoid form, we're not
going to think of him as ashrimpy kind of person.
He's going to be quite largeand powerful, and there are
images of Babylonian art thatshow Gilgamesh as something of a
giant, as he hunts lions withspears and arrows, and he can
hold an adult male lion which isidentifiable by its mane, and
(26:11):
no ordinary human could hold alion this way.
The lion appears like the sizeof a dog.
So it's like.
This is something you knowcommensurate with the
description of Goliath in theOld Testament.
Laurie (26:26):
Yeah, and I'm always that picture, that statue of
Gilgamesh holding a lion, alwaysamazed me, and we know there
had to have been giants becauseeven talking about the flood,
the great flood, I alwayswondered why, even after, since
God destroyed the earth withflood and only Noah and his
(26:47):
family had survived.
You know, where did thesegiants come from?
And I'm talking about thegiants in the land of Canaan,
when Joshua went in with thespies and they said man, the
giants are there, they're so big, they are of the raphaeum,
which is interpreted as theAnakin, which would be the
Anunnaki, and they were huge.
We felt like we were the sizeof grasshoppers.
(27:10):
Of course that's not an actualcomparison, it's just overstated
.
You know he's trying to analyzewhat he's seeing, how big these
guys are, so it'sover-exaggerated, but still
there were giants there.
So that makes you wonder.
But what you said about thatlion in Gilgamesh's arms?
I mean, lions are bigger thanany large dog breed we know of
(27:34):
and can kill them easily andmake a meal out of them.
So this then brings up thequestion of DNA.
Who was this King Gilgamesh?
Why was he depicted as being solarge?
The answer may be found in therich repository of Mesopotamian
religious beliefs.
The pantheon of gods, includingAnu, enlil and even Ishtar,
(27:58):
reflects the polytheisticworldview of the time.
So ritual practices, divineinterventions and the concept of
an afterlife as depicted in theepic align with other
Mesopotamian religious texts.
The flood narrative recountedby Upnapishtim bears striking
parallels to the flood mythsfound in other ancient cultures,
(28:18):
and that includes the biblicalstory which, of course, you and
I believe that that biblicalstory came down from these
Mesopotamian texts, sure, fromthese Mesopotamian texts.
Joe (28:30):
Sure, and you know, when you get to this story with
Gilgamesh and Enkidu, they forma friendship after Gilgamesh
defeats them in the Feats ofStrength, and the two of them
set off on a six-day journey tothe fabled Cedar Forest, where
they confront and defeat itsguardian, humbaba, who is also
(28:52):
known as Awaba in early Sumeriantales, and they proceed to cut
down the sacred cedar trees.
So in retaliation, the goddessIshtar sends the bull of heaven
to slay the two of them.
However, they are the ones whodo the slaying and the bull gets
killed.
And it is said that Enkiduactually hurls the right thigh
(29:16):
at Ishtar, which reallyinfuriates her and further
insults her.
So the bull is a familiarsymbol in the Old Testament.
It represents divine wrath andpower, as well as a sacrifice to
atone for sin.
So we're seeing a similar sortof symbol being brought into
this story.
So this part unfolds acrosstablets 4 and 5, while the part
(29:41):
about Ishtar being insulted thatis detailed in tablet 6.
So, following these events,Gilgamesh, renowned for his fame
and adored in his luxuriousattire, captures the attention
of Ishtar, who approaches himwith an offer of love.
However, Gilgamesh spurns heradamantly, rejects her, hurling
(30:12):
insult, angry, and retreats tothe heavens and implores her
father, Anu, the sky god, togrant her that.
Bowlu must die by tragicillness, but not Gilgamesh.
He is kept alive and Enkidu isthe one who is sacrificed.
(30:39):
So again we have this sort ofimagery of sacrifice, another
biblical theme that is common tothis story.
Laurie (30:50):
Enkidu sounds like a martial art, doesn't it?
It does.
So, yeah, you mentioned thecedar forest.
Well, there's somethingparticularly significant to add
a connection to the Bible.
The cedar forest is regarded asa magnificent domain of the
gods in Mesopotamian mythology.
In Tablet 4, it says thatGilgamesh used wood from these
(31:14):
trees to help construct the cityof Uruk, and I want to
emphasize this point that we'retalking about the gods of
ancient Mesopotamia.
But the biblical connection I'mreferring to is Yahweh's
fondness for the cedar forestsof Lebanon that we find in
Psalms 29:5, 2 Kings 14 (31:29):
9, and Ezekiel 17:3.
This creates a striking linkbetween the Hebrew God Yahweh's
affinity for it and the SumerianGod's affinity for it Gods like
Utu Shamish, which, of course,could be a comparison to who
Yahweh really is, utu Shamish.
Joe (31:50):
And even parts of Solomon's temple were made from the
timber of the cedars of Lebanon,as God commands Solomon in 2
Chronicles 2 (31:58):
8, and 2 Kings 19: 23, to send messengers there to
acquire it.
Psalm 104 (32:04):
16 says that God planted the cedar trees there,
but his very voice can breakthem into pieces.
Says that God planted the cedartrees there, but his very voice
can break them into pieces.
So here again is this imageryand this theme of divine
presence in the same place, withGilgamesh and Kedu entering.
It is said to be a place thatexhibits ethereal power.
(32:24):
During the Middle Ages, manymonasteries were built in the
area of the cedars of Lebanon,as these trees were believed to
be the cedars of God and werethought to hold secrets of the
supernatural.
So after Enkidu dies, gilgameshfalls into despair as the story
is going on and he is now aloneand he begins to fear his own
(32:46):
death.
Now this is the second half ofthe saga, in which Gilgamesh now
seeks to find the answer to themeaning of life and he wanders
through the wilderness, bothphysically and philosophically,
questioning his own purpose init.
Again, another biblical themeof wandering through the
wilderness, these sort of partsof the stories.
They're similar and they pop upin many different forms in
(33:09):
archaic mythology.
And they pop up in manydifferent forms in archaic
mythology.
And it is here that Gilgameshbegins to ponder why he himself
must one day die and ifimmortality is at all possible.
And this is a universal mysteryof which all humans wrestle,
and the story shows that no oneis exempt from it, not even a
demigod giant like Gilgamesh.
So at this point he goes on along and dangerous journey
(33:33):
across desert and sea, wanderingto the ends of the earth, to
search for the answer on how tofind this immortality.
And he is looking forUtnapishtim, because he heard
earlier in the story that thegods have granted him
everlasting life.
And this is the one who seemsto be the same guy as Noah,
since he had survived the greatflood.
And after going through somebizarre encounters along the way
(33:56):
, including coming upon giantscorpions, Gilgamesh finally
meets Utnapishtim somewhere, ina place called the far away, at
the mouth of all rivers.
and when he meets him, he meetshim almost by happenstance, when
coming upon the shore,Utnapishtim relays the whole
account.
And when he meets him, he meetshim almost by happenstance when
coming upon the shore and thePashtun relays the whole account
(34:18):
of what happened at the time ofthe flood and how he and his
wife survived it by building aship as instructed by Ea, who
was also Enki.
And as for the question of howGilgamesh can attain eternal
life from just like Utnapishtim,what he is told is not very
encouraging, is it?
Laurie (34:33):
Yeah, no, yeah.
Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh totry staying awake, sleep for six
days and seven nights straight,and he almost does it, but then
falls asleep right at the lastminute before the end of the
time period.
And Utnapishtim pretty muchtells him that death is
inevitable, and at that, nomatter how great or accomplished
(34:57):
, a human cannot keep from dying.
So Utnapishtim's wife tells himto have mercy on Gilgamesh and
to explain to him how there is aspecial plant that will give
him immortality, and the problemis that it is at the bottom of
the ocean.
Joe (35:15):
Yeah, that doesn't stop Gilgamesh.
Is that it is at the bottom ofthe ocean.
Yeah, that doesn't stopGilgamesh.
Somehow, he finds this spot inthe ocean that is obscurely
called the sea that surroundsthe far and away, and he uses a
big rock to weigh himself downto the ocean floor where he
finds the plant.
However, he doesn't trust it,so he decides to take it back to
Uruk and to test it out on anold man to see if it will
(35:37):
rejuvenate him.
In other words, he loses faith.
So, while he was traveling backto his home city, he does fall
asleep, and then a big snakecomes by and eats the magic
elixir plant.
So here we have the snake, itsays, in the Garden of Eden,
being portrayed as the cleverestand craftiest of creatures.
The literary element is thesame, and many scholars
(36:02):
interpret the portrayal of thesnake to elicit the same
thoughts in the mind of thereader as the portrayal in the
Bible.
Again, it's the same storypiece, the same sort of picture,
and ultimately Gilgamesh learnsthat it is through leaving a
legacy, something by which hewill always be remembered, that
he achieves his immortality.
Therefore, he spends the restof his days building up his home
(36:24):
city of Uruk, so that it willstand as a testament to his
greatness and his abilities.
And that is pretty much thereason we see so many people of
influence and fame leavingbehind large monuments, most of
them made out of stone right.
Laurie (36:40):
Right, and you know, you mentioned a snake and its
comparison.
It's like after the snake hadtempted Eve, and then Eve
tempted her husband, had them toeat of the fruit, and then they
became knowing of the fruit andthen they became knowing.
Uh, that's when god kicked themout of the garden, which means
(37:02):
that, remember what he said wemust kick them out just because
who, who knows?
They may now eat of the tree oflife.
So, because of the snake, theywere kicked out of the garden
and they weren't able to have,um, the chance at eternal life
or immortality.
So it is like you said, it'slike the same story.
But that's the comparison.
(37:24):
And this epic drives home theundeniable truth that, no matter
who we are, we will all die.
This is a natural part of life.
While our bodies perish, ourtrue essence, our consciousness,
from the garden, I guess, maynot and the true self, like the
driver of a car, operates ourphysical form.
(37:46):
You know, at night our bodyrests until our inner being
wakes it up, motivating us toact.
Just as a car requiresmaintenance, our body needs
proper nutrition, exercise andsleep to function well.
So Gilgamesh didn't understandthis concept and he was looking
at immortality in the way that aphysical body lives forever,
(38:08):
like the way it is with the gods.
So if the supernatural doesexist, then how did it start?
How did it begin?
And did God create it andinhabit it?
Or, you know, was it alreadythere before God, even depending
on how you see God.
So if God is, say, an advancedextraterrestrial, did he slash?
(38:30):
They grasp the supernatural dueto superior knowledge that they
already know about it.
Well, some scientists one dayhuman scientists uncover and
explain immortalityscientifically.
Joe (38:45):
Right and this saga.
It also resonates acrosscultures and across time, and
not only because of thissymbolism that we're talking
about, but because of itsemotional connection that is
found through the experiences ofshared conflict, deep sadness
and personal loss.
The bond between Gilgamesh andEnkidu emphasizes the
(39:07):
transformative power offriendship and trust, while at
the same time, gilgamesh'sobstinate and almost desperate
quest for immortality ismanifested in his soul-searching
and in the existential fearsthat are as relevant today as
they were many millennia ago.
This is a universal idea, andit makes this a valuable text
(39:29):
for helping us all to betterunderstand how the interpersonal
experiences that we have unitehumanity on many levels.
In contemporary literature,cinema and art, the echoes of
the Epic of Gilgamesh are oftenpretty evident.
The storyline is a familiar one.
According to the Americanauthor Joseph Campbell in his
(39:53):
work on comparative mythology,the archetype of the hero and
his journey can trace many ofhis roots to the Mesopotamian
narratives.
Let's just think of the belovedbooks we have, you know, where
the protagonist, whetherfictional or non-fictional, must
undergo profoundtransformations, must conquer
fears to reach a goal or embarkon quests for ultimate truths.
(40:17):
Just think of Beowulf or Frodoin Lord of the Rings or the
conquer fears to reach a goal,or embark on quests for ultimate
truths.
Just think of Beowulf or Frodoin Lord of the Rings, or the
Pevensie children in theChronicles of Narnia, or even
Don Quixote.
These are classics because ofhow they depict the heart of the
human condition fear, love,sorrow.
And they may all have thegroundwork of their character
arcs from what is found in thetelling of the tales about
(40:39):
Gilgamesh.
Laurie (40:42):
Right and as diverse cultures around the world come
into closer contact, some ofthese archaic stories, like
Gilgamesh, can help us functionas a significant connection
between the ancient Near Eastand the modern world.
Its themes of cultural exchangeand emerging of mythologies
highlight the interconnectednessof human societies.
(41:03):
In educational settings,museums and literary studies,
the epic serves as a resourcefor understanding ancient
civilizations.
Additionally, its rediscoveryin the 19th century and its
translation into modernlanguages have renewed interest
in ancient Mesopotamian heritage, and this has led to increased
(41:26):
recognition of the region'scontributions to world history,
art and science.
Joe (41:31):
Well, it is all deeply philosophical and grappling with
questions at the heart of allof our religious and spiritual
inquiry.
Gilgamesh's quest forimmortality, driven by the loss
of his friend, echoes universalconcerns about death that we all
have, as well as the meaning oflife and the possibility of
transcending all of thismaterial existence into another
(41:55):
realm, an afterlife.
These themes are the basis ofall of our scriptural beliefs
and they resonate withcontemporary religious
discussions, and they offer acommon ground for diverse faith
traditions.
Some scholars have interpretedUtnapashtim's flood narrative as
evidence of there being sharedmythological roots among all of
(42:16):
the pagan religions andAbrahamic faiths.
This kind of overlap helps tosupport and encourage the
exploration of the sharedcultural traditions out there.
Laurie (42:27):
As we all know, modern spirituality frequently draws
from ancient texts forinspiration and guidance.
The Epic of Gilgamesh providesinsights that can be applied to
contemporary life.
It highlights the temporarynature of human achievements and
the importance of relationshipsconsistent with various
religious traditions andteachings.
(42:48):
Additionally, the epic'sportrayal of gods and their
interactions with humanityinvites reflection on the nature
of divinity and therelationship between the sacred
and the profane, For interfaithdialogues and spiritual retreats
.
The Epic of Gilgamesh may serveas a touchstone for exploring
(43:10):
such profound questions in anon-dogmatic and all-inclusive
manner.
Joe (43:16):
Yeah, and even today, the story remains a centerpiece of
world literature and a vitaltribute to human civilization,
and its historical accuracyprovides valuable insights into
archaic Mesopotamian culture,while its universal themes
inspire and challenge modernaudiences and in today's
(43:37):
cultural and religious settings.
It bridges the past and thepresent, offering timeless
wisdom and a shared space fordialogue and individual or group
reflection.
And as we navigate anincreasingly interconnected
world, the Epic of Gilgamesh canremind us of the enduring power
of how stories can shape ourunderstanding of ourselves and
(43:59):
the world around us.
So that will do it for today,and we hope you all enjoyed this
episode.
And if you would like what we dohere, please share this podcast
with your family and friends.
We would greatly appreciate itif you could share the word
(44:20):
about what we do here.
Also, check out your YouTubechannel as well and subscribe to
it for more content.
So, anyway, join us next timewhen we have a great discussion
that I think you all reallyenjoy.
It's about something called theGolden Dome.
Some of you may have alreadyheard about it.
At one time it was better knownas Strategic Defense Initiative
(44:42):
, so we want to explore whatexactly it is and what the
future holds for it.
Laurie (44:48):
Yes, joe and I will delve deeper into this whole
thing and discuss how the ideasfor this all came together long
ago, how the ideas for this allcame together long ago, and is
there an extraterrestrialconnection from ancient times to
all of this?
So listen to our next episodein a few weeks and you'll find
out.
Joe (45:08):
And until then, folks, please visit our website at
alien talk podcastcom for moreinformation about our shows, and
I hope it was your support.
Thank you for listening today,stay safe and stay curious.
Hello and thank you for joining us on Alien Talk Podcast
.
This is the show where wediscuss all things about aliens
and UFOs and, as always, wherewe push the limits of our
understanding about subjectsthat pertain to the existence of
extraterrestrial intelligence,the presence of UFOs and perhaps
even the very meaning of lifeitself here on our noble planet.
(00:22):
We explore the mysteries of thecosmos and the enshrouded
secrets of our world's history,constantly pondering what is out
there in the far reaches ofspace and asking questions about
what our ancestors encounteredin all those wondrous and
revered stories from the distantpast.
So, the last time we were withyou, we explored a bit of the
Atra-Hasis, a very ancientAkkadian story that tells of a
(00:46):
wise and noble priest-king whosurvives a great flood.
Atrahasis, the main character,exhibits noticeable similarities
to Noah, as is found vis-a-visin the Bible.
Just like the Enuma Elish, whichwe also talked about, it
alludes to themes that deal withthe beginnings of human
existence on earth, with thegods creating man and woman and
(01:09):
them becoming greatly displeasedwith how their work turned out,
a massive flood coming thatkills almost everyone, and then
a restart to civilization with afew survivors who perpetuate
the human life here on theplanet.
This is covered in the first 12chapters of Genesis to form what
we know as a narrative in theJudeo-Christian canon, in which
God, the Lord, is the centralactive player who stands in for
(01:33):
the pantheon of Mesopotamiandeities.
Now, these epic poems form thecore mythology that is preserved
in Akkadian script and come tous in the form that we have from
Babylonian and Assyriantraditions which, from what many
scholars speculate, wasborrowed from the Sumerians and
then later passed on to othercultures of the ancient world,
(01:56):
one of them being the Hebrews,who eventually gave us the Holy
Bible, as well as the Greeks,egyptians and pretty much
everyone else, and we find inall of them a human relationship
with the divine.
But there is also another storythat, like the Enuma, Elish and
the Atra-Hasis, it richlyportrays the source material
that is interwoven throughoutall these cultures as they have
(02:19):
been transmitted down from theSumerians.
That one is known as the Epicof Gilgamesh, dating to around
the 22nd century B.
C.
, and Laurie, that would put itbefore the time of the
composition of those otherpieces of Mesopotamian
literature that we know of,wouldn't it?
Laurie (02:39):
Yeah, I believe so, Joe.
The Epic of Gilgamesh is one ofthe earliest surviving pieces
of ancient mythology, if not theearliest piece.
Not only is it an epic poem ofheroic deeds, incredible
adventures, and it acquists forthe divine, but it puts forth
(02:59):
many timeless and tantalizingphilosophical questions.
In much the same way the Biblestories do.
Like the Enumeration, theAtra-Hasis.
It was found in the 1850s andthe 1860s on cuneiform clay
tablets within the library ofAshurbanipal, among the ruins of
(03:20):
the ancient Assyrian city ofNineveh, modern-day Iraq.
Unlike those ones that dated toaround 700 to 600 BC of the
ancient Assyrian city of Nineveh, modern-day Iraq.
Unlike those ones that dated toaround 700 to 600 B.
C.
, the tablets of the Epic ofGilgamesh are believed to be
dated to between 1300 and 1100 B.
C.
, so they are older scripts.
(03:48):
Now many people are familiarwith Gilgamesh, or at least they
have heard mention of him,possibly through scriptural
studies or through books thatcover biblical commentary and
history, in which it is used toshow a parallel narrative about
the flood which is supposed tosupport the validity of the
Genesis account.
Further, one thing in that alot of people make the mistake
(04:10):
in their assumption is thatGilgamesh is to be thought of as
the equivalent character ofNoah, like it is the same story
of Noah but just with adifferent name, which is
incorrect.
But Gilgamesh is asemi-mythical king of Uruk and
as the central character heseeks or confronts the issues of
(04:33):
mortality, friendship, loyalty,divinity and overall the search
for meaning in life.
The person who most closelyresembles the identity of Noah
is someone called Utnapishtim,who Gilgamesh eventually meets
and finds out that he hadsurvived the great flood.
So the opinion or presumptionout there that somehow that some
(04:58):
have about this, you know, epicof Gilgamesh being the
retelling of Noah's Ark from adifferent culture is not
entirely accurate.
Joe (05:06):
Yeah, that's right, and of course you know there's also the
matter of how post-Diluvianchronology it doesn't really
line up with Gilgamesh, with thenarrative.
This story of Gilgamesh takesus back to about 2100 B.
C.
, when Utnapishtim isencountered.
2100 BC, when Utnapishtim isencountered and it is not an
(05:28):
ordinary type of encounter, asUtnapishtim and his wife are
found to live for eternity in arealm that is something like
Shangri-La, something likeanother dimension, something
called the Celestial Abode andhe tells Gilgamesh that this
great flood had happened a long,long time before that, like
thousands of years before that.
Well, from a standpoint ofapologetics, this particular
(05:49):
source does bear many of thesame factors and elements as the
Genesis account, as Utnaphistimrelays to Gilgamesh all the
details about the ship and itsdimensions and the animals there
were only some animals, not twoof every animal as well as also
how it rested on a mountain andall that.
(06:10):
All those other features of thestory seem to be similar to the
narrative by Utnapishtim.
However, the timeline in whichwe're impressed in the Epic of
Gilgamesh is one that goes muchfurther back than we tend to
take away from a reading of the3rd through 11th chapters of
Genesis.
We even see that Genesis 9: 28-2 9, has Noah living for 350 (06:27):
undefined
years after the flood, with atotal lifespan of 950 years, not
an eternal life.
Another thing to highlight isthat the Epic of Gilgamesh and
the Atra-Hasis and the EnumaElish were brought to everyone's
(06:48):
knowledge.
They weren't brought toeveryone's knowledge until after
the excavation of Ninevehduring the Victorian era, that
is, when the clay tablets werefound that contained these texts
.
However, these stories had beenknown to poets, philosophers
and even theologians for quitesome time, all the way back to
antiquity.
A Babylonian priest of Belnamed Berusus wrote about the
(07:11):
flood myth and the heroic talesof Gilgamesh in the 3rd century
BC, as did Alexander of Miletus,a Greek historian of the 1st
century BC, and it was uncommonfor medieval monasteries to keep
copies of manuscriptscontaining pagan mythology, and
Gilgamesh was one of the onesthat were kept.
So these stories were known toliterate people for quite a long
(07:33):
time, although they did becomesort of re-energized or
re-inspired after thearchaeological discoveries of
the library of Ashurbanipal,something that contributed to a
rise in theosophy, spiritualismand occultism in the early 1900s
, which we see with individualslike Helena Blavatsky, Edgar
(07:55):
Cayce and Arthur Conan Doyle.
Even the analyticalpsychologist Carl Jung was
somehow influenced by therenewal of this ancient wisdom,
which was brought about by thesearchaeological discoveries.
Laurie (08:10):
Yeah, and the Bible.
These epics from Sumerianmythology continue to this day
to be relevant in the landscapesof Western culture and religion
.
So this shows how the work ofstorytellers of the past have
endured and how they connectuniversally to the human
experience.
From Gilgamesh we get a goodglimpse into the ancient way of
(08:33):
thinking and their societalstructures, and it starts off
with a vivid portrayal of Yurik,showcasing its architectural
splendor and political hierarchy, which is supported by
archaeological discoveries thatreveal how the Sumerians were
very advanced and a wellorganized civilization.
(08:55):
There are references toziggurats, temples, irrigation
canals, and these correspond towhat has been on earth, adding a
good bit of literary andhistorical truthfulness to this
epic.
And Gilgamesh parallels theAtra-Hasis.
That tells of how the godscreated these irrigation canals
(09:21):
to nourish the land, enablinghumans to cultivate crops and
provide food and offerings for asacred feast to be given to
them.
And this concept also resonateswith the account found in the
book of Leviticus, with the Lordcommanding the Israelites to
give a daily offering of meatand grain and wine and all sorts
(09:44):
of things like that Even theauthors were made of.
The authors in Leviticus evenhad to have spoons and forks and
knives on it.
So, yeah, it was a little morethan daily sacrifices.
They were meal preparations.
Joe (09:58):
Yeah right, and the story character of Gilgamesh was
probably inspired by theSumerian king of the same name,
who reigned around 2800 to 2500B.
C.
, a time period known as theThird Dynasty of Ur.
While his exploits in thenarrative feature many mythical
elements, like encounters withgods and monsters, his kingship
(10:22):
and the city's prominence mayvery well have been rooted in
historical accuracy.
He is depicted as a demigod,much like in the way Hercules is
portrayed in Greek mythology,and even in some way he is
comparable to King David fromthe Bible.
And actually, there are someliterary scholars who believe
that the tales about Gilgameshbear much influence in the
(10:44):
composition of Homer's work, theIliad and the Odyssey, which
were written sometime after 1100BC.
Now this whole saga isbasically divided into two parts
.
The first half involves theaudacious plight of Gilgamesh as
the king of Uruk, and there'san enigmatic figure called
(11:06):
Enkidu, who was a wild man,actually a monstrous beast man,
and he was created by the godsin order to stop Gilgamesh in
his seemingly harsh rule overthe people of the city-state of
Uruk.
At least in their minds he washarsh.
Now, this element is prettycommonly found in mythology,
with the gods creating somegrossly mutated human or
(11:28):
something in animal form that issent to fight the protagonist.
You know, in Greek mythologythere is the minotaur.
In the Nordic legends there arethe Berserkers, then there's
also the Chimera, which is likea hybrid creature that has a
lion's body, a goat's head onits back and a serpent's tail,
(11:49):
and of course there is thesphinx.
All monstrous creatures thatthere are Akkadian texts
describing how Ea omens overimperfections that were derived
(12:09):
in his creation of manessentially hybridization,
experience of his that had gonewrong.
And there are also stonereliefs and statues that have
been found in places likeNineveh, sippur and Ur that
depict these beastly-lookinghumanoid characters that seem to
be something like part bull orpart lion or even part fish.
(12:30):
So this raises the question ofwhether such ghastly creatures
may have possibly existed at onepoint in time and have been
thus recorded in the artwork andthe literature of Babylon and
Assyria thus recorded in theartwork and the literature of
Babylon and Assyria, and itseems like the character of
(12:52):
Enkidu fits this sort ofclassification of such beings.
That would be a result of whatwe would call faulty genetic
engineering, hybridization.
You know, genetic engineeringprojects that had gone wrong and
created these mutants, terriblelooking beasts.
Laurie (13:04):
Yeah, yeah, and we are.
I've always said it, we arehybrids.
So, according to the story,gilgamesh must have, or must not
have been a very good king,even though the whole thing
begins with a poem that is inpraise of him.
He may have actually been quitea tyrant.
(13:25):
After Enkidu is civilizedthrough sexual initiation with
Shamhat, who is often viewed asa prostitute, introducing him to
the ways of civilization, whichto me is a little bit
reminiscent of the Tarzan story.
So, following thetransformation, enkidu travels
(13:46):
to Yurik, challenging Gilgameshto a contest of strength.
Although Gilgamesh ultimatelyprevails, the two forge a strong
friendship, showcasingGilgamesh's impressive strength.
And he must have been a demigod, especially considering that
Enkidu appears to be a wild man,perhaps a remnant of a primate,
(14:08):
or even a Homo erectus.
Do you see the connection to theancient alien theory that I'm
attempting to make here?
Yeah, so evolutionists arguethat humans evolved from
primates through naturalselection, without divine
intervention.
Which creationists claim adivine being created?
(14:31):
Humans.
However, if we are uniquelymade in God's image, why do we
share 99% of our DNA withchimpanzees?
You know, this biological factcontrasts with the biblical
account of humans formed fromthe dust and clay.
Now, when we go to the ancientalien theory we find a proposed
(14:52):
hypothesis that incorporatesboth evolution and creation.
In the Sumerian mythology, thegod Enki declares A being
already exists.
Let us put our mark upon it,let us create a primitive worker
so that we might have our ease.
This is where I believe they,our alien gods, created the
(15:13):
first species of early humans,possibly from the genome of the
primates such as the Homoerectus or probably even
Cro-Magnon man.
The popular belief in theancient alien theory, I think,
(15:35):
is Homo erectus, but this beingwas strong and robust and able
to perform the difficulties ofslave labor, and it wasn't until
an upgrade was needed that webecame self-aware beings, known
now as the Homo sapiens speciesthinking man, wise man.
So in his book Genes, Giants,Monsters, and Men, Joseph
Farrell discusses translationsof ancient Mesopotamian texts
that describe the creation ofhumans, and one passage dating
(15:58):
back nearly 3,000 years readsthey summon Mami, the life
creator.
Now Mami is where we get theword mommy, mom, saying you are
the biological expert.
We want you to create a Lulu toperform tasks for Enlil and
take on the labor.
(16:18):
Now Pharaoh suggests mankindwas created both as laborers and
as hybrids of gods andpre-existing hominids.
Another passage states and fromhis blood, the lady of creation
mixed the cultures.
After she did this, she notifiedthe Anunnaki lords and the
(16:40):
lordlings possibly the Igigi orother Anunnaki and provided
their sperm for the lifecultures.
Now Enki then says that thelordlings and man will be
hybridized in the culture.
Now he said, let the hybridreceive spirit, consciousness,
(17:01):
from the lordling's flesh, andthen let's not forget that
living man will have a spirit.
So pharaoh explains that theAnunnaki refer to clay being
mixed with spittle, which may beinterpreted as semen and
subsequently incubated in 14goddesses for the conception of
(17:21):
the adamu right.
Joe (17:24):
So we see in.
You know, there are componentsin Sumerian mythology that
describe the creation of humans,called Adamu, in a place called
Edan, which sounds a lot likeEden, the Garden of Eden.
Similarly, the Bible mentionsAdam being created at that place
.
Both sources involve a pluralconcept of God, elohim.
(17:45):
This is in the Bible as well,where there is a plurality given
of God at the time of thecreation of man and woman and
really everything, as well as inthe Anunnaki, which are plural,
and that's found in theSumerian text.
We refer to the creation inmale and female forms.
(18:06):
There are deities are also inmale and female forms.
So while hermeneutics can offermetaphorical explanations for
these features, and in theliterature the straightforward
illustration seems to suggestthat the creators were flesh and
blood beings and that theycreated other beings in their
(18:29):
own image, just as we see it,man and woman with bodily form.
And interpreting thisdifferently leads to a lot of
subjective analysis, criticism,sometimes even overreaching into
trying to define something inwhich there is no tangible basis
for coming up with thatexplanation.
(18:51):
This is where apologetics willaccept non-physical entities
creating physical ones, and thatposes a big problem for logical
thinking and for what weunderstand of in the philosophy
of science.
Laurie (19:08):
Well, the correct answer may come from interpreting the
straightforward meaning.
Numerous verses describe Yahweh, the Hebrew God, eating,
drinking, resting, walking, andso this is all implying that he
was a physical being.
Now creationists argue againstthis due to their religious
(19:28):
indoctrination.
The power of faith can leadpeople to ignore tangible
evidence, sticking to beliefsabout the afterlife despite the
contradictions.
If texts say that he ate, drank, walked and descended in a
cloud or a chariot of fire,perhaps it should be taken
literally.
I mean that part of the text.
(19:49):
And it may be just that, thatthe biblical text should just be
taken at face value, whichmeans that we have flesh and
blood creators in the plural,who have incredible abilities.
So if you look at the cosmicscale, on the cosmic scale, the
250,000 to 300,000 years it tookfor our species to become
(20:12):
almost sapiens is almostinstantaneous.
And it is believed that aroundthis time alien genetic
engineering began to influencehuman development.
And in our last episode aboutthe Atraasis, we discussed how
this alien race was mining goldin Africa and sought relief from
(20:32):
their labor, just like we werequoting from the text of the
ancient text earlier.
According to the Atra-Hasis,the Anunnaki leaders, that be it
, Anu, Enlil and Enki, possiblymaybe that's where we get the
Trinity from but they decided tocreate a worker species,
essentially a beast of burden,right, strong or robust.
(20:54):
So artifacts have been foundthat depict these gods
performing hybridization tocreate what would be known as
Adam or man, in particular inparticular.
Joe (21:10):
Interestingly, these depictions in Sumerian and
Egyptian cylinder seals alsoshow the gods not only making
humans in laboratory settings,but they're making some
monstrous creatures.
These would be the experimentsthat have essentially gone wrong
(21:30):
and resulted in deformities andimperfections, and it's taken
them a while to perfect thewhole process.
One might wonder if these arejust simply allegorical
illustrations of them creatinghumans, possibly, but in Genesis
we have God already being inexistence, saying let us make
(21:52):
man in our image, according toour likeness.
Now, this suggests geneticmanipulation rather than a
spiritual creation.
As we are simply talking aboutlikeness, we're not really
talking about anything in termsof the essence, the sort of
characteristics or what is inthe heart of the creation, but
(22:14):
the creation itself, thephysical body.
So this seems to imply, fromthe interpretation directly from
the text, that our creatorsmight be nothing more than
beings from another worldsomewhere in our universe, and
that the ancient alien theorypresents this idea as an
alternative interpretation ofthe story of mankind's origin.
Laurie (22:38):
Yeah, correct, and it's important to note that people
believe the Biblical narrativeon faith, not evidence.
So I mean we can bring forthour arguments, but the proof
we're looking for may just beDNA.
That may be the proof, nothingabout the spirit of God or
(22:59):
something supernatural, but thechemical manipulation within the
very chromosomes of an omittedcreature that was already here
through the lengthy processes ofevolution.
That biochemical manipulationwas caused by something else
(23:21):
that also was already here tohydrodize our DNA with its DNA.
That other DNA, I believe, iswhat is made by God, quote
unquote in the creation story.
Joe (23:31):
Yes, and there were many types of hominids that inhabited
the earth we know that frompaleontological evidence and
there were humanoid species likeHomo erectus, Homo habilis,
Homo neanderthalus, but we Homosapiens, we outwitted and
performed all of them.
How did this happen?
(23:52):
How do we outperform otherspecies when we're all on the
same evolutionary timeline?
It was an incredible leap inmaking Homo sapiens sentient,
intelligent and consciouscreatures when we were really in
the same environment.
We're in the same.
You know environment.
(24:14):
You know we're in the sameecosystem.
There's nothing that reallyshould have made us advance any
better than another species, yetwe did considerably.
The question is did someoutside factor or outside force
and intelligence become involvedand create us into the thinking
and wise species that we aretoday, or at least we should be?
(24:37):
All of us would say yes, as isrevealed in our beliefs in God,
and asking who or what God is isimpossible to answer.
The definition of God is tooabstract for us to come up with
a single independent mode or wayto think about him, and
everything about him transcendsour understanding.
(24:58):
So we can certainly ask isthere something that could be
the so-called DNA of God and ifso, how would it be noticeable?
And there are notions thatdeities are giants.
So could giant size be one ofthe features of divinity?
We do find descriptions of thatin several books of the Bible
(25:22):
about giants.
Genesis has these giants asbeing descendants of the sons of
God.
So there's a connection betweenthat feature of being big with
being divine.
We definitely think of God asbeing big.
We never think of him as beinga small entity.
He's larger than anything hedoesn't occupy any volume in
(25:47):
space, but when we do think ofhim as humanoid form, we're not
going to think of him as ashrimpy kind of person.
He's going to be quite largeand powerful, and there are
images of Babylonian art thatshow Gilgamesh as something of a
giant, as he hunts lions withspears and arrows, and he can
hold an adult male lion which isidentifiable by its mane, and
(26:11):
no ordinary human could hold alion this way.
The lion appears like the sizeof a dog.
So it's like.
This is something you knowcommensurate with the
description of Goliath in theOld Testament.
Laurie (26:26):
Yeah, and I'm always that picture, that statue of
Gilgamesh holding a lion, alwaysamazed me, and we know there
had to have been giants becauseeven talking about the flood,
the great flood, I alwayswondered why, even after, since
God destroyed the earth withflood and only Noah and his
(26:47):
family had survived.
You know, where did thesegiants come from?
And I'm talking about thegiants in the land of Canaan,
when Joshua went in with thespies and they said man, the
giants are there, they're so big, they are of the raphaeum,
which is interpreted as theAnakin, which would be the
Anunnaki, and they were huge.
We felt like we were the sizeof grasshoppers.
(27:10):
Of course that's not an actualcomparison, it's just overstated
.
You know he's trying to analyzewhat he's seeing, how big these
guys are, so it'sover-exaggerated, but still
there were giants there.
So that makes you wonder.
But what you said about thatlion in Gilgamesh's arms?
I mean, lions are bigger thanany large dog breed we know of
(27:34):
and can kill them easily andmake a meal out of them.
So this then brings up thequestion of DNA.
Who was this King Gilgamesh?
Why was he depicted as being solarge?
The answer may be found in therich repository of Mesopotamian
religious beliefs.
The pantheon of gods, includingAnu, enlil and even Ishtar,
(27:58):
reflects the polytheisticworldview of the time.
So ritual practices, divineinterventions and the concept of
an afterlife as depicted in theepic align with other
Mesopotamian religious texts.
The flood narrative recountedby Upnapishtim bears striking
parallels to the flood mythsfound in other ancient cultures,
(28:18):
and that includes the biblicalstory which, of course, you and
I believe that that biblicalstory came down from these
Mesopotamian texts, sure, fromthese Mesopotamian texts.
Joe (28:30):
Sure, and you know, when you get to this story with
Gilgamesh and Enkidu, they forma friendship after Gilgamesh
defeats them in the Feats ofStrength, and the two of them
set off on a six-day journey tothe fabled Cedar Forest, where
they confront and defeat itsguardian, humbaba, who is also
(28:52):
known as Awaba in early Sumeriantales, and they proceed to cut
down the sacred cedar trees.
So in retaliation, the goddessIshtar sends the bull of heaven
to slay the two of them.
However, they are the ones whodo the slaying and the bull gets
killed.
And it is said that Enkiduactually hurls the right thigh
(29:16):
at Ishtar, which reallyinfuriates her and further
insults her.
So the bull is a familiarsymbol in the Old Testament.
It represents divine wrath andpower, as well as a sacrifice to
atone for sin.
So we're seeing a similar sortof symbol being brought into
this story.
So this part unfolds acrosstablets 4 and 5, while the part
(29:41):
about Ishtar being insulted thatis detailed in tablet 6.
So, following these events,Gilgamesh, renowned for his fame
and adored in his luxuriousattire, captures the attention
of Ishtar, who approaches himwith an offer of love.
However, Gilgamesh spurns heradamantly, rejects her, hurling
(30:12):
insult, angry, and retreats tothe heavens and implores her
father, Anu, the sky god, togrant her that.
Bowlu must die by tragicillness, but not Gilgamesh.
He is kept alive and Enkidu isthe one who is sacrificed.
(30:39):
So again we have this sort ofimagery of sacrifice, another
biblical theme that is common tothis story.
Laurie (30:50):
Enkidu sounds like a martial art, doesn't it?
It does.
So, yeah, you mentioned thecedar forest.
Well, there's somethingparticularly significant to add
a connection to the Bible.
The cedar forest is regarded asa magnificent domain of the
gods in Mesopotamian mythology.
In Tablet 4, it says thatGilgamesh used wood from these
(31:14):
trees to help construct the cityof Uruk, and I want to
emphasize this point that we'retalking about the gods of
ancient Mesopotamia.
But the biblical connection I'mreferring to is Yahweh's
fondness for the cedar forestsof Lebanon that we find in
Psalms 29:5, 2 Kings 14 (31:29):
9, and Ezekiel 17:3.
This creates a striking linkbetween the Hebrew God Yahweh's
affinity for it and the SumerianGod's affinity for it Gods like
Utu Shamish, which, of course,could be a comparison to who
Yahweh really is, utu Shamish.
Joe (31:50):
And even parts of Solomon's temple were made from the
timber of the cedars of Lebanon,as God commands Solomon in 2
Chronicles 2 (31:58):
8, and 2 Kings 19: 23, to send messengers there to
acquire it.
Psalm 104 (32:04):
16 says that God planted the cedar trees there,
but his very voice can breakthem into pieces.
Says that God planted the cedartrees there, but his very voice
can break them into pieces.
So here again is this imageryand this theme of divine
presence in the same place, withGilgamesh and Kedu entering.
It is said to be a place thatexhibits ethereal power.
(32:24):
During the Middle Ages, manymonasteries were built in the
area of the cedars of Lebanon,as these trees were believed to
be the cedars of God and werethought to hold secrets of the
supernatural.
So after Enkidu dies, gilgameshfalls into despair as the story
is going on and he is now aloneand he begins to fear his own
(32:46):
death.
Now this is the second half ofthe saga, in which Gilgamesh now
seeks to find the answer to themeaning of life and he wanders
through the wilderness, bothphysically and philosophically,
questioning his own purpose init.
Again, another biblical themeof wandering through the
wilderness, these sort of partsof the stories.
They're similar and they pop upin many different forms in
(33:09):
archaic mythology.
And they pop up in manydifferent forms in archaic
mythology.
And it is here that Gilgameshbegins to ponder why he himself
must one day die and ifimmortality is at all possible.
And this is a universal mysteryof which all humans wrestle,
and the story shows that no oneis exempt from it, not even a
demigod giant like Gilgamesh.
So at this point he goes on along and dangerous journey
(33:33):
across desert and sea, wanderingto the ends of the earth, to
search for the answer on how tofind this immortality.
And he is looking forUtnapishtim, because he heard
earlier in the story that thegods have granted him
everlasting life.
And this is the one who seemsto be the same guy as Noah,
since he had survived the greatflood.
And after going through somebizarre encounters along the way
(33:56):
, including coming upon giantscorpions, Gilgamesh finally
meets Utnapishtim somewhere, ina place called the far away, at
the mouth of all rivers.
and when he meets him, he meetshim almost by happenstance, when
coming upon the shore,Utnapishtim relays the whole
account.
And when he meets him, he meetshim almost by happenstance when
coming upon the shore and thePashtun relays the whole account
(34:18):
of what happened at the time ofthe flood and how he and his
wife survived it by building aship as instructed by Ea, who
was also Enki.
And as for the question of howGilgamesh can attain eternal
life from just like Utnapishtim,what he is told is not very
encouraging, is it?
Laurie (34:33):
Yeah, no, yeah.
Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh totry staying awake, sleep for six
days and seven nights straight,and he almost does it, but then
falls asleep right at the lastminute before the end of the
time period.
And Utnapishtim pretty muchtells him that death is
inevitable, and at that, nomatter how great or accomplished
(34:57):
, a human cannot keep from dying.
So Utnapishtim's wife tells himto have mercy on Gilgamesh and
to explain to him how there is aspecial plant that will give
him immortality, and the problemis that it is at the bottom of
the ocean.
Joe (35:15):
Yeah, that doesn't stop Gilgamesh.
Is that it is at the bottom ofthe ocean.
Yeah, that doesn't stopGilgamesh.
Somehow, he finds this spot inthe ocean that is obscurely
called the sea that surroundsthe far and away, and he uses a
big rock to weigh himself downto the ocean floor where he
finds the plant.
However, he doesn't trust it,so he decides to take it back to
Uruk and to test it out on anold man to see if it will
(35:37):
rejuvenate him.
In other words, he loses faith.
So, while he was traveling backto his home city, he does fall
asleep, and then a big snakecomes by and eats the magic
elixir plant.
So here we have the snake, itsays, in the Garden of Eden,
being portrayed as the cleverestand craftiest of creatures.
The literary element is thesame, and many scholars
(36:02):
interpret the portrayal of thesnake to elicit the same
thoughts in the mind of thereader as the portrayal in the
Bible.
Again, it's the same storypiece, the same sort of picture,
and ultimately Gilgamesh learnsthat it is through leaving a
legacy, something by which hewill always be remembered, that
he achieves his immortality.
Therefore, he spends the restof his days building up his home
(36:24):
city of Uruk, so that it willstand as a testament to his
greatness and his abilities.
And that is pretty much thereason we see so many people of
influence and fame leavingbehind large monuments, most of
them made out of stone right.
Laurie (36:40):
Right, and you know, you mentioned a snake and its
comparison.
It's like after the snake hadtempted Eve, and then Eve
tempted her husband, had them toeat of the fruit, and then they
became knowing of the fruit andthen they became knowing.
Uh, that's when god kicked themout of the garden, which means
(37:02):
that, remember what he said wemust kick them out just because
who, who knows?
They may now eat of the tree oflife.
So, because of the snake, theywere kicked out of the garden
and they weren't able to have,um, the chance at eternal life
or immortality.
So it is like you said, it'slike the same story.
But that's the comparison.
(37:24):
And this epic drives home theundeniable truth that, no matter
who we are, we will all die.
This is a natural part of life.
While our bodies perish, ourtrue essence, our consciousness,
from the garden, I guess, maynot and the true self, like the
driver of a car, operates ourphysical form.
(37:46):
You know, at night our bodyrests until our inner being
wakes it up, motivating us toact.
Just as a car requiresmaintenance, our body needs
proper nutrition, exercise andsleep to function well.
So Gilgamesh didn't understandthis concept and he was looking
at immortality in the way that aphysical body lives forever,
(38:08):
like the way it is with the gods.
So if the supernatural doesexist, then how did it start?
How did it begin?
And did God create it andinhabit it?
Or, you know, was it alreadythere before God, even depending
on how you see God.
So if God is, say, an advancedextraterrestrial, did he slash?
(38:30):
They grasp the supernatural dueto superior knowledge that they
already know about it.
Well, some scientists one dayhuman scientists uncover and
explain immortalityscientifically.
Joe (38:45):
Right and this saga.
It also resonates acrosscultures and across time, and
not only because of thissymbolism that we're talking
about, but because of itsemotional connection that is
found through the experiences ofshared conflict, deep sadness
and personal loss.
The bond between Gilgamesh andEnkidu emphasizes the
(39:07):
transformative power offriendship and trust, while at
the same time, gilgamesh'sobstinate and almost desperate
quest for immortality ismanifested in his soul-searching
and in the existential fearsthat are as relevant today as
they were many millennia ago.
This is a universal idea, andit makes this a valuable text
(39:29):
for helping us all to betterunderstand how the interpersonal
experiences that we have unitehumanity on many levels.
In contemporary literature,cinema and art, the echoes of
the Epic of Gilgamesh are oftenpretty evident.
The storyline is a familiar one.
According to the Americanauthor Joseph Campbell in his
(39:53):
work on comparative mythology,the archetype of the hero and
his journey can trace many ofhis roots to the Mesopotamian
narratives.
Let's just think of the belovedbooks we have, you know, where
the protagonist, whetherfictional or non-fictional, must
undergo profoundtransformations, must conquer
fears to reach a goal or embarkon quests for ultimate truths.
(40:17):
Just think of Beowulf or Frodoin Lord of the Rings or the
conquer fears to reach a goal,or embark on quests for ultimate
truths.
Just think of Beowulf or Frodoin Lord of the Rings, or the
Pevensie children in theChronicles of Narnia, or even
Don Quixote.
These are classics because ofhow they depict the heart of the
human condition fear, love,sorrow.
And they may all have thegroundwork of their character
arcs from what is found in thetelling of the tales about
(40:39):
Gilgamesh.
Laurie (40:42):
Right and as diverse cultures around the world come
into closer contact, some ofthese archaic stories, like
Gilgamesh, can help us functionas a significant connection
between the ancient Near Eastand the modern world.
Its themes of cultural exchangeand emerging of mythologies
highlight the interconnectednessof human societies.
(41:03):
In educational settings,museums and literary studies,
the epic serves as a resourcefor understanding ancient
civilizations.
Additionally, its rediscoveryin the 19th century and its
translation into modernlanguages have renewed interest
in ancient Mesopotamian heritage, and this has led to increased
(41:26):
recognition of the region'scontributions to world history,
art and science.
Joe (41:31):
Well, it is all deeply philosophical and grappling with
questions at the heart of allof our religious and spiritual
inquiry.
Gilgamesh's quest forimmortality, driven by the loss
of his friend, echoes universalconcerns about death that we all
have, as well as the meaning oflife and the possibility of
transcending all of thismaterial existence into another
(41:55):
realm, an afterlife.
These themes are the basis ofall of our scriptural beliefs
and they resonate withcontemporary religious
discussions, and they offer acommon ground for diverse faith
traditions.
Some scholars have interpretedUtnapashtim's flood narrative as
evidence of there being sharedmythological roots among all of
(42:16):
the pagan religions andAbrahamic faiths.
This kind of overlap helps tosupport and encourage the
exploration of the sharedcultural traditions out there.
Laurie (42:27):
As we all know, modern spirituality frequently draws
from ancient texts forinspiration and guidance.
The Epic of Gilgamesh providesinsights that can be applied to
contemporary life.
It highlights the temporarynature of human achievements and
the importance of relationshipsconsistent with various
religious traditions andteachings.
(42:48):
Additionally, the epic'sportrayal of gods and their
interactions with humanityinvites reflection on the nature
of divinity and therelationship between the sacred
and the profane, For interfaithdialogues and spiritual retreats
.
The Epic of Gilgamesh may serveas a touchstone for exploring
(43:10):
such profound questions in anon-dogmatic and all-inclusive
manner.
Joe (43:16):
Yeah, and even today, the story remains a centerpiece of
world literature and a vitaltribute to human civilization,
and its historical accuracyprovides valuable insights into
archaic Mesopotamian culture,while its universal themes
inspire and challenge modernaudiences and in today's
(43:37):
cultural and religious settings.
It bridges the past and thepresent, offering timeless
wisdom and a shared space fordialogue and individual or group
reflection.
And as we navigate anincreasingly interconnected
world, the Epic of Gilgamesh canremind us of the enduring power
of how stories can shape ourunderstanding of ourselves and
(43:59):
the world around us.
So that will do it for today,and we hope you all enjoyed this
episode.
And if you would like what we dohere, please share this podcast
with your family and friends.
We would greatly appreciate itif you could share the word
(44:20):
about what we do here.
Also, check out your YouTubechannel as well and subscribe to
it for more content.
So, anyway, join us next timewhen we have a great discussion
that I think you all reallyenjoy.
It's about something called theGolden Dome.
Some of you may have alreadyheard about it.
At one time it was better knownas Strategic Defense Initiative
(44:42):
, so we want to explore whatexactly it is and what the
future holds for it.
Laurie (44:48):
Yes, joe and I will delve deeper into this whole
thing and discuss how the ideasfor this all came together long
ago, how the ideas for this allcame together long ago, and is
there an extraterrestrialconnection from ancient times to
all of this?
So listen to our next episodein a few weeks and you'll find
out.
Joe (45:08):
And until then, folks, please visit our website at
alien talk podcastcom for moreinformation about our shows, and
I hope it was your support.
Thank you for listening today,stay safe and stay curious.
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