July 4, 2025 • 45 mins
The veil of secrecy surrounding Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena is starting to crack. In this eye-opening analysis of the 2024 Congressional UAP hearing, we dive deep into explosive testimony revealing decades of government concealment and deliberate information suppression.
When four expert witnesses step forward—including former Pentagon insider Luis Elizondo declaring "UAPs are real" and journalist Michael Shellenberger exposing the classified "Immaculate Consolation" program—the truth about recovered non-human technology becomes impossible to ignore. The hearing reveals a disturbing pattern: emails mysteriously vanishing, witnesses facing intimidation, and Congress deliberately kept in the dark about programs funded by taxpayer dollars.
What makes this hearing particularly significant is the growing frustration among elected officials who find themselves stonewalled at every turn. As Representative Mace pointedly challenged: if these secret programs exist, Congress deserves oversight; if they don't exist, why are we potentially funding them? Meanwhile, our military personnel face genuine safety threats from these encounters, yet protocols and reporting systems remain inadequate.
The most chilling revelation? That communication with these phenomena may already be occurring—not through words, but through military encounters that serve as a form of dialogue. As Elizondo explains, when F-18s are scrambled in response to incursions, that itself is communication; when UAPs hover over sensitive installations, they're sending a message we've yet to fully comprehend.
Join us as we untangle this web of secrecy, exploring what these revelations mean for national security, scientific advancement, and the public's right to know. Subscribe now and prepare for our next episode, where we'll examine the classified Immaculate Consolation document that government officials were warned never to mention by name.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh (00:03):
Aliens Aliens, yes.
Travis (00:09):
But maybe no.
Welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no.
I'm Travis.
I'm Travis.
I'm Josh.
This is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title.
(00:30):
So last week we talked aboutthe UAP hearing, covered off on
some pretty big news thathappened in 2023.
Josh (00:39):
Yeah.
Travis (00:40):
Right, that's how you say it 2023.
2023, baby, yeah it.
Josh (00:46):
Yeah, it was groundbreaking Lots of really
good information that we got outof that.
Travis (00:50):
Yep, we ranked our people, our witnesses.
Josh (00:53):
Yeah, we learned that some of the Congress people are
upset that they're not beinginvolved in some of these
military decisions, and we alsolearned that some people didn't
care.
Travis (01:03):
Yeah, it seemed as though they didn't care.
You could really tell with,like, some of their statements.
It seemed like this was thefirst time they had read those
statements, so you could tellthey were clearly written by an
aide, yes, or maybe they'd putit together.
And then they're like okay, myduty to this, the amount of work
I want to put into this, isdone, it's been satisfied.
I'm going to put it.
This is done, it's beensatisfied, I'm going to move on.
(01:24):
And then they never looked atit again until the hearing.
Josh (01:26):
Right.
Travis (01:26):
Because some really struggled with just reading
their statement.
And these are.
They're not like us.
Josh (01:32):
You know these are professionals, or?
Travis (01:33):
regular people.
These are like Congress peoplewho?
Josh (01:36):
these are the people that are running the country.
Travis (01:37):
Yep, yep, yep.
Pretty disappointing.
That's what I'm finding outwith a lot of these hearings.
Like the people that run thiscountry are very disappointing.
Josh (01:45):
Yeah, it's surprising.
Travis (01:46):
Yeah, we elect them, we do, and that is also
disappointing.
It's like a what's it called AnOuroboros, a snake eating its
own tail, like we just keepfucking ourselves over.
Yeah, yeah.
Josh (01:59):
So that was 2023, 2023.
Yeah, so this episode we'regoing to talk about 2024.
Correct, 2024.
Yeah, in colloquial terms sothe 2024 hearing of unidentified
anomalous phenomenon exposingthe truth.
Travis (02:15):
Okay, yeah, what was the committee that was putting this
on?
It was a.
Josh (02:19):
It was a subcommittee.
Travis (02:20):
It was a very lengthy.
Josh (02:22):
It was a joint, which means a together.
Travis (02:30):
So I'm just going to call it a together committee.
Okay, that sounds happier.
Yeah, there's a show calledsteven universe and they have
this thing called togetherbreakfast, which is I think it's
so endearing.
It's just like everybody comestogether to make a breakfast so
you get like waffles andpancakes and eggs and it's all
just piled on.
It's a lot of.
Josh (02:42):
And I want that same endearingness to be with this a
together hearing.
So it was two subcommitteescoming together the Subcommittee
on Cybersecurity, informationTechnology and Government
Innovation yeah, that's one ofthem and the Subcommittee on
National Security, the Borderand Foreign Affairs.
Travis (03:01):
And this is like what a portion of one long hearing that
they had.
Is that?
Is that correct?
Like are these people, likeMace, sitting in a room and
having witnesses come in and outall day, because this is not a
border security issue that Icould suss out?
Josh (03:18):
The witnesses were all there.
We had four witnesses.
They stayed in the room thewhole time.
Travis (03:22):
I'm just saying were there hearings before and then
are there hearings after?
Do you know, or do they havethis hearing?
And then this is it.
Josh (03:29):
I don't know.
I'm sure there's other hearingsabout national security.
You know, I'm sure that'shappening all the time.
Travis (03:35):
Okay, so, you think that maybe we're just seeing a
portion of this as it pertainsto To UAP?
Josh (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, this is the UAP hearings.
Travis (03:43):
It's not even three.
It's not even in the title.
Josh (03:45):
No, it's not.
But there's no place for UAPsin the government, so they have
to wiggle their way in on someother committees just in our
hearts.
Yeah, together, yeah.
So the testimony from keywitnesses regarding unidentified
anomalous, because it's notaerial, it's both.
Travis (04:05):
They're talking about submerged well and like an
anomaly is like an unchecked,like an unfactored kind of
situation.
Yeah, I don't know how todescribe it, like an anomaly is
something that that happens.
That is kind of it's bizarre.
Josh (04:20):
And yeah, there we go.
Bizarre, yep, yeah.
So a lot of times when I sayUAP, I say unidentified aerial
phenomenon.
Travis (04:28):
They made a clear distinction in this here.
Josh (04:29):
Yeah, it is anomalous because these phenomenons are
not just aerial, they aresubmerged as well.
So the witnesses we have andI'm sure there's a ranking with
these witnesses- Nobody eversays weird things that happen on
land, right?
I think those do exist.
Travis (04:47):
I don't know what they're called, but they do, I
mean, so this would fall underthat category, though, instead
of making it more specific,anomalous makes it now more
broad, right yeah, yeah, itcovers everything.
Josh (04:58):
Yeah, so we have our witnesses.
We're gonna do kill mary, fuck.
Travis (05:02):
No, I'm kidding well, it's the fourth one.
There's four high five he'sjust a.
Watch it astragalus he's justwatching kill mary, fuck watch
yeah, so our four guys retired.
Josh (05:14):
Rear admiral tim gallaudet .
Yeah, he served in the us navyand retired as the commander of
the navy meteorology andoceanography command.
He is currently the chiefexecutive officer at Ocean STL
Consulting.
Travis (05:27):
Okay, then there's Lou Elizondo our boy Lou, wearing a
very sensible collar.
This time, yeah, versus thelast time we saw him.
He had a big collar.
He had a big collar.
He's like a stocky guy, andwearing a tall collar just makes
it look like you don't have aneck.
Josh (05:43):
Like the guy from 90 Day Fiance.
Travis (05:46):
Oh man yeah.
Josh (05:47):
Yeah.
Travis (05:47):
The guy that just goes shoulder to head.
Josh (05:50):
So Lou is a former Department of Defense official
who managed a special accessprogram concerning UAPs on
behalf of the White House andthe National Security Council.
Travis (05:59):
There's a little bit of contention about his work
history.
He claims to be part of thesite, clandestine part of the
Pentagon, and nobody in thePentagon recognizes what he's
done or that department.
So I just wanted to get that.
Josh (06:11):
Which is not a new thing.
Travis (06:13):
Well.
Josh (06:13):
I mean, we talked about this early on.
Travis (06:15):
You know there's a lot of character assassination that
happens in this community, whichkind of adds to that feeling of
them all being paranoid freaks.
That's right.
Call back to our earlierepisodes.
Yep, I'm going to pull up LouElizondo's wiki and read a
little bit from that.
Josh (06:33):
Well, we did a wiki on Bob Lazar and it was very mean,
very rude.
And we also heard from thislast hearing, the 2023 hearing,
that there are people that arespreading misinformation.
Yep.
Travis (06:47):
Okay, so the opening paragraph of his Wikipedia page.
Luis Elizondo is a mediapersonality and author formerly
employed by United States ArmyCounterintelligence and the
Office of the Undersecretary ofDefense for Intelligence.
According to Elizondo, he wasdirector of the now defunct
Advanced Aerospace ThreatIdentification Program, or AATIP
, which was associated with thenow defunct Advanced Aerospace
Threat Identification Program,or AATIP, which was associated
with the Pentagon UFO videos.
(07:07):
Elisande's statements about hisPentagon role with AATIP have
been contested by Pentagonofficials.
Since 2017, he has claimedthere was a government
conspiracy to suppress evidencethat UFOs are of
extraterrestrial origin.
Okay, so just brief history.
He talked about that a littlebit in this hearing.
Yep, brief history.
He talked about that a littlebit in this hearing.
Josh (07:24):
Yep and AATIP was disbanded and AERO has taken its
place as the organizationinside the Pentagon that is
doing the UAP research.
He is also the author of thebestselling book on the subjects
of UAPs.
Travis (07:38):
Good for him.
Yeah, it's got like anexclamation point in the title.
It's like danger, does it?
I don't know?
Oh, it's like danger, does it,I don't know?
Oh, it's inside the pentagon'shunt for ufos imminent.
Okay, it's the title imminent.
That's a good word.
Josh (07:51):
Yeah.
So the third witness, michaelschellenberger.
He's an author and a journalistwho founded, public a
newsletter which recentlypublished a piece about a
purported special access programthat witnesses refer to as
immaculate consolation.
Travis (08:07):
Oh, are we even allowed to say that I?
I've heard no Quoting Rep Mace.
Come at me, bro, now like yeah.
Josh (08:14):
So, mace, in the introduction of this hearing she
said that she was told that shewould be put on a list if she
said the words immaculateconsolation.
Yeah, so it means that we noware on a list with her.
Travis (08:29):
Okay, you okay with that ?
I mean I was, yeah, I'm okaywith that.
I guess I don't know, like,what does that even mean?
We're on a list, okay, fine, Idon't know, what does that do?
Josh (08:45):
Does that mean I?
Travis (08:46):
can't like get on an plane, probably just like a
watch list.
Sure you know they're gonna belistening now a little more
intently.
Well, we haven't releasedanything yet as of.
Josh (08:50):
Oh, they know as I know they know, as time of this,
recording this episode and ussaying it has not been released
I've been raided before we evenstarted this podcast, so they
know, they're aware of what ourpotential is what our reach is.
Travis (09:03):
You had thought crimes that that's exactly it.
It was thought crime.
Josh (09:06):
Yep.
So that was MichaelSchellenberger, the author and
journalist.
And then, lastly, we haveMichael Gold.
He's a former NASA official whoserved on the NASA UAP
independent study team, and heis currently the chief growth
officer at Redwire Space.
Travis (09:22):
What does that mean?
Marketing Headhunting?
Josh (09:24):
Recruiting.
I officer at red wire space.
What does that mean?
Marketing, headhunting,recruiting, I would imagine.
Funding growth, growth.
I feel like that's one of thosewords.
Travis (09:30):
If you say a lot, it just sounds gross yeah, it
sounds like you're saying itgross with the lisp growth.
Josh (09:35):
Yeah, that's really growth yeah, I would imagine he's
trying to grow the category, theidea, the knowledge and the
funding if I can just get you tosay growth two more times,
that'd be great.
Not gonna be it.
Yeah, because he talked about afew times in his responses that
he is all for some of theseprojects that are having
difficulty being funded.
Yeah, so I think that if it'snot part of his job, it is
(09:59):
something he's definitelypassionate about is the lack of
funding when it comes to so isthat a?
Travis (10:02):
private sector job.
It's not part of the governmentand it seems like Lou Elizondo
has also gone into privatesector, but he still has
security clearance, which hetalked a little bit about in his
opening statement.
Josh (10:12):
Yeah.
Travis (10:12):
He was asked like well, is there a threat?
Do you guys feel threatened?
They pose it as like a careerthreat and he's like well, yeah,
there's us coming out thatposes a career threat, a
personal threat and a threat toour security clearances.
Josh (10:26):
Yeah, that you've worked your entire life to get, and
also now their life is dependenton these security clearances
because they need that to beable to further help their cause
, which is getting some of thisstuff answered.
So these are the guys.
Who's your number one?
Who are you taking?
Travis (10:44):
home?
I like Lou.
I think he was my favorite.
Who's your number one?
Who are you taking home?
I like Lou.
I think he was my favorite.
He's very charismatic.
You can tell that he's been apart of this for a long time.
So his statements were veryclean and to the point.
His responses wereappropriately condescending to
some of the reps.
Yeah, that's why he's my numberone.
I don't really remember much ofthe other folks.
(11:04):
I remember when Elizondo walkedin he got an applause.
Josh (11:08):
He's kind of a celebrity.
He's a celebrity yeah.
Travis (11:11):
Like our boy Jeremy, who was there also.
He was standing around in theback.
He's in the audience, ourdocumentarian.
Did you see him?
Did you spot him?
Josh (11:20):
Oh yeah, I did.
Yeah, did you see the tattooman?
Who do you think that could bethe tattoo man?
There's someone that had a lotof tattoos Like a JJ Abrams or a
David Lynch character Blink-182.
Travis (11:34):
Oh, tom DeLonge, I didn't see him.
Josh (11:37):
Yeah, he was there when he was in front row in the stands.
He was just right there, oh.
Travis (11:42):
I missed him.
Yeah, the stands.
He was just right there.
I missed him, yeah, but likelou, is this guy right.
So of course, if lou was there,I should have expected to see
tom de long, but no, I didn'tsee him.
I'll have to re-watch it justjust for that yeah, I would say
lou's my number one.
Josh (11:55):
I didn't like michael gold , the guy from nasa.
At first, yeah, and then I didokay, he was very.
I want to talk about science.
You guys have data.
Science relies on data.
Yeah, give us the data.
Travis (12:09):
That's how I felt about the guy from last week, Graves.
And he was there too, I didn't,yeah, graves, and so was Grush.
Josh (12:16):
Yeah.
Travis (12:17):
But I didn't like Graves at the beginning, but then he
became my number one.
Josh (12:20):
Yeah, I liked how Michael Gold said you know what we're
capturing these UAPs with arenot what should be capturing
UAPs.
We're using cockpit cameras.
Travis (12:32):
They're cockpit gun cameras.
Josh (12:34):
Yeah, he's like if we were using cockpit cameras to study
black holes, we wouldn't knowanything about black holes.
We need to have the data sothat we can create a device to
be able to look at these, andeverything is being withheld.
Yeah, and we're not going toget any information with the
stuff that we're using.
Travis (12:53):
Yeah, it's like playing darts with one eye closed.
Yeah, like your perspective isgoing to be off.
Josh (12:57):
Yeah, you're going to be a little to the left or the right
, mm.
Hmm.
Travis (13:00):
Always to the left for me.
Josh (13:02):
So Michael Schellenberger, the author and journalist, I
just liked how he's there towhistleblow for whistleblowers.
He's not the whistleblower, buthe's the middleman and he's at
all costs going to protecthimself.
He even said he's like I willgo to prison for the safety of
protecting my guys.
Travis (13:20):
Yeah, yep, a journalist at heart.
You know you want to protectyour sources and that's what he
said.
Guys, yeah, yep, a journalistat heart.
You know you want to protectyour sources and that's what he
said.
This is my livelihood.
I'm not going to give up mysource of information for these
kind of hearings.
Josh (13:32):
Yeah.
Travis (13:33):
That that shows integrity.
It does.
But also it's frustrating whenyou're trying to get answers and
they just say like I don't know, uh, you're asking.
And this is a huge frustrationfor me.
watching these last couple ofhearings, I don't watch a lot of
congressional hearings but andmaybe I will going forward
because it's interesting, theseare our elected officials and
I'm not just talking about UAPsjust like any congressional
(13:54):
hearings Maybe I'll startwatching C-SPAN again or
whatever, but that is what is sofrustrating about our elected
officials.
It's not that they're havingthese hearings, it's that the
questions they're asking are notthe right questions Right that
they're having these hearings.
It's that the questions they'reasking are not the right
questions Right, or they'rerepeating questions and they're
not phrasing it in any new ornovel way.
So it's just like thatdefinition of insanity where you
(14:15):
keep doing the same thing overand over again and expecting
different results.
Josh (14:19):
Yeah, I did like Schellenberger.
I mean, he's not an expert atall, so he's just compiling the
information and then letting allthese people have it.
So when they ask him anyquestions about anything, he's
just like I don't know.
All I know is what's in this.
I already presented youeverything.
I don't know, or I don't havean opinion on that.
Like, do you think aliens arereal?
(14:40):
He's like I don't know.
You know.
He just doesn't know.
He's here for a very specificpurpose.
Travis (14:47):
They all are.
I mean, every one of thesehearings have been, and that's
what I'm saying, like that's.
What's frustrating is thequestions that are being asked
of them are like do little greenmen exist?
And they're like I don't.
There's nothing in your readingthat would indicate I would
know if there are little greenmen out there.
Josh (15:10):
Well, let's talk about some of the testimonies, some of
the highlights of thetestimonies.
So let's start with AdmiralGallaudet's testimony and some
of the highlights with that.
So he was really, reallypushing on the lack of
transparency regarding UAPs,even at high levels of
government.
He described an incident thatoccurred in 2015, while serving
as the commander of the NavyMeteorology and Oceanography
Command, where he received anemail regarding a safety concern
(15:30):
involving multiple near midaircollisions with unidentified
objects.
Travis (15:35):
Yeah, and we've talked about this guy's testimony
before right With the GoFastvideo.
Josh (15:40):
I believe so I don't think we talked much about this
aspect where there was an emailand someone was saying like hey,
do you guys see this?
Do you know what's going on?
Do you know anything about this?
And it's known as the go fastvideo, and then the next day the
email disappeared from theaccount without explanation,
(16:00):
which is weird, and they nevertalked about.
Travis (16:02):
no one ever talked about it again yeah, I think that's
just like clandestine governmenttype stuff, though I don't
think that's too weird thatthings just go missing or just
disappear.
Josh (16:13):
Yeah, he explained because one of the Congress people
asked a really great question ofwhy did no one talk about it?
Why didn't you bring it up?
Yeah, and he's like well, wejust assumed that it was above
our clearance and someoneaccidentally brought this up and
it was a special access programthat we weren't involved with
with another intelligence agency, so we didn't want to bring it
(16:35):
up, because if it was that, thenwe could maybe stir some shit
up and we don't want to be introuble, which is completely
understandable, but that's alsowhat they wanted, whoever took
it away.
Yeah, he also stated that hewas recently informed about a
satellite imagery from 2017 thatdepicted a uap, but that this
information had still not beenshared with congress.
(16:56):
I, I'm just blown away, becausecongress is there for a very
particular reason and theyshould know about all this stuff
and they're there to makedecisions for the people and the
pentagon and these militaryagencies.
Travis (17:08):
This is also fringe stuff, like not everybody finds
this as captivating, as you know.
Josh (17:15):
Others but that's what's so frustrating is that they've
taken it upon themselves.
Travis (17:19):
The pentagon and these military people were asked to
take it on by certain members ofcongress like b Burchette and
Luna.
They're the big drivers of this.
And then a little bit of that.
Josh (17:31):
Yeah, I'm talking about the military.
Travis (17:33):
No, yeah, we'll never get answers from the military.
It's not ever forthcoming aboutanything.
And they're supposed to be no.
Josh (17:41):
Well with Congress.
Travis (17:42):
They will say no, they can be, but they don't have to
answer.
They can use national securityas their blanket reasoning why
they're not going to divulge anysort of information or secrets,
because they don't want ourenemies to know troop movements
and militaristic operations, oreven technology.
Josh (18:00):
But they've stepped beyond that because they're using it
doesn't matter, I mean itdoesn't matter, like Congress
says yeah, and they're stillgoing it doesn't matter, I mean
it doesn't matter, like they'reusing taxpayer money.
Travis (18:06):
Congress says yeah, and they're still going to keep
doing it.
That's never going to end.
We are still going to overfundthe military and underfund every
other aspect of our life.
Josh (18:15):
Oh, absolutely.
But the military is a branch ofthe government and so it does
have oversight, or there shouldbe oversight, but no one's
overseeing.
Travis (18:23):
There is, but everybody's like the military
needs all the money it can get.
That's just the nature of ourgovernment.
We see ourselves as a worldpower and we just throw money
away into that.
Josh (18:35):
Yeah.
Travis (18:36):
I mean.
Josh (18:36):
It's sad they basically just have like a license to kill
.
They can just do whatever theywant, they just have a.
Travis (18:42):
Yeah.
And then our veterans come homeand we treat them like dog shit
.
Can just do whatever they want,they just have a yeah.
And then our veterans come homeand we treat them like dog shit
.
And I'm not.
I'm not trying to get political, but just I mean that's a fact.
The military funding ends afteryou've been used.
Josh (18:52):
Yep, well, personally, yeah yeah, but when it comes to
top secret black site operations, we don't even know.
All we do know is that whatmace was saying is the pentagon
has failed every single auditthat they've ever had, and these
auditors don't have access.
Travis (19:09):
These secret little committees and organizations and
they have ways to just likesquirrel money away and get
funding through.
You know, trickery, I guess?
I don't know, that's not theword I'm looking for, but it's
close.
Well, they can say like we needX amount of dollars and they're
like, okay, well, what's it for?
And like, well, don't worryabout what it's for, it's
national security.
(19:29):
But we're the Pentagon.
So you know, kick us down somemoney bro.
Josh (19:34):
Well, that's the thing is there's a whole bunch of black
operations where we have no ideahow much money is being spent
and those aren't being auditedbecause it's above an auditor's
clearance and we don't know howmany black operations there are.
So we're spending a trilliondollars on our military or
whatever.
I don't know.
It could be double thatpotentially.
Yeah, we just don't know, butwhat we do know is what we can
(19:57):
audit is failing every singletime.
And Mace makes a really goodpoint where, if these things are
happening, we should know.
And if it's not happening, whyare we paying for something
that's not happening?
If it is happening, how muchare we paying for it to be
happening?
Travis (20:13):
What a question.
You're doing some circularlogic there.
Josh (20:17):
Yeah, and Mace is the one that's really pushing for this,
like I've talked to you aboutbefore, where I think she wants
to know all this information,but she's trying to like get in
there on their side.
Travis (20:26):
She's coming at it as a budgetary concern, right Like
we're spending this money.
We need to have you guysaccountable for this money and
not you guys, cause, like thesefour people that are there are
not responsible for the moneybeing spent.
They're just witnesses as partof this.
Josh (20:40):
They're trying to get the same information.
Travis (20:42):
Yeah, as part of this bigger division.
Yeah, and that's the thing is,they're asking these questions
of these people that are thereand they don't have the answers
because that's not their area offocus.
So, again, they're asking thewrong questions to the wrong
people, right, they get thesepeople there and then they just
they go off on thisgrandstanding and they turn it
into a political thing.
This is like supposed to belike a release of information.
Josh (21:05):
Yeah, I like how Admiral Gallaudet got really excited
when Ogles, the very lastcongressperson, came in and he
brought up something that peoplehadn't brought up the whole
hearing Just the ridiculousnessof how this is a threat to our
personnel Having closeencounters and being almost
clipped.
We're putting our servicepeople in danger.
(21:28):
They're a threat.
But then he was saying doesn'tour people outweigh the threat
when it comes to nationalsecurity?
A little bit.
They're withholding informationthat could protect these people
because of a threat.
So they're continuing a threatfor another threat.
But we can find a middle ground.
Basically, and these peoplethat are withholding some of
this information that can allowus to make our pilots and all
(21:51):
these people safer is criminal.
It is criminal that they'rewithholding information because
they're putting lives at riskand I love that and the crowd
loved it because he got a bigapplause for that.
Travis (22:02):
Yeah, but I mean it's a crowd of a bunch of paranoid
freaks.
Josh (22:05):
I got emotional.
Travis (22:07):
Did you?
Josh (22:07):
really.
Yeah, I got motivated and alittle emotional when he was
going.
It was just like finally, likesomeone's saying what needs to
be said.
Yeah, the next person was MrElizondo.
He said that UAPs are real andthat in his opinion.
Travis (22:21):
Yeah, what a banger of a statement too.
Josh (22:23):
Yeah, uaps are real and that, in his opinion, some of
them demonstrate advancedtechnologies not made by our
government or any othergovernment.
Travis (22:32):
Which I think it's a weird statement to say
government, because privatesector is also and we're seeing
that especially lately with,like, what's going on with
SpaceX.
The private sector is where alot of money is and it's
unchecked.
Oh, absolutely, there's nogovernment oversight for SpaceX
or for any of these other likelittle space startups that are
(22:54):
happening right.
So to say like there's nogovernment record of these ships
or the building of these shipsor UAPs, is kind of telling.
Josh (23:06):
Yeah, he's saying a lot by not being able to say a lot and
he's very particular with hiswords.
So him saying it's not made byour government or any other
government it's very apparent.
I mean, they mentioned a lot ofother private sector companies,
like Bigelow and some of theothers.
These people are doing crazythings with stuff the military
(23:27):
is giving them.
Yeah, and he also said thatthese UAPs are monitoring
sensitive military installationsaround the globe which we've
seen.
Travis (23:35):
Yeah, we saw them mainly .
What like last year, just afterthe last congressional hearing,
was like November, december oflast year.
Josh (23:42):
Yeah, they said it was like swarms, hive-like swarms.
Which of last year?
Yeah.
They said it was like swarms,Hive-like swarms yeah, which is
freaky.
Travis (23:48):
They didn't say that those were otherworldly.
At least to my recollection,they just referred to them as
drones.
Right, which could have beenany.
I mean, it could have beenChina or, you know, the UK.
As far as we're concerned, itcould be Mexico, it could have
been Canada.
It could have been, canadaCould have been, but it's
happening at their places too.
Josh (24:04):
That's what's weird.
It's happening all around theglobe.
Travis (24:07):
I'm nodding my head yes, in defeat, in concession.
I mean we're seeing thatrecently, like we're seeing
drones on the East Coast, like adense population of drones
there's like a weird, anuncomfortable, very anomalous to
use that word yeah, grouping ofdrones.
There's like a weird, anuncomfortable, anomalous to use
that word yeah, grouping ofdrones.
(24:27):
And we're seeing in the uk notwe, but like humanity is seeing
it in the uk as well yeah, and,and it's not just drones that
they're seeing.
Josh (24:35):
I mean, there's lots of different kinds of drones that
they're seeing, but they're alsoseeing uaps as well, things
that may not be drones they're.
Travis (24:43):
I mean we don't know what's inside there, these ships
, I mean they all not be drones.
I mean we don't know what'sinside these chips.
I mean they all could be drones.
It could be, as far as we'reconcerned, the information
that's given to us.
They could all be unmanned UAPs.
Josh (24:54):
Yeah, lou also stated that the US is in possession of UAP
technologies, as are some of ouradversaries.
Yeah, which would make sense.
We're not the only country inthe world.
Travis (25:03):
Yeah, that's the thing we talked about a little bit on
the last episode and I'm surewe'll find its way through
episodes going forward is we'relooking at a lot of these things
as how they relate to our ownnational security instead of how
they relate to humanity broadly.
There is a real possibilitythat this could move humanity
forward and instead we're beingvery secretive about it and
(25:25):
holding it close to our chestbecause it might pose a threat
to the united states nationalsecurity, instead of like
releasing this information andsaying, like this is a way to
consume energy in a differentway or this is a human problem,
not a united states or a humanlike.
This is something that humanscould use advantageously yeah,
that's.
Josh (25:44):
The sad part is that there are people out there that will
always make something into aweapon.
Yeah, no matter what.
Yeah, and we need protectionagainst that kind of weapon.
I think, before you know,that's what Lou often said.
He's like you know, themilitary is very proactive when
it comes to a problem.
They don't want to just presenta problem, they want the
solution as well.
So problem they don't want tojust present a problem, they
(26:05):
want the solution as well.
Travis (26:06):
So that's why they haven't released anything.
But if you're thinking ofeverything as a weapon, you're
going to want to use everythingas a weapon.
Josh (26:10):
Exactly I agree.
Travis (26:11):
Instead of looking at it as like a way to move humanity
forward.
Right, how can we use this?
Like a lot of military peoplethat get trained to fight and
kill, that's what they want.
Like, I mean even.
Yeah, they're probably trying tomake every possible kind of
weapon Even scale that way down,like our biggest forms of
entertainment MMA, boxing,football all those trainings are
(26:32):
to like essentially hurt otherpeople, and you just look
forward to the next bout or thenext match or the next game so
you can continue to do that.
And then you extrapolate thatup to the military.
Josh (26:45):
When we're creating these things missiles, bullets, guns
you have a real desire to seehow those work out in the field
and to see how that they cancreate a defense for anything
that could possibly come fromthis before they release it,
(27:07):
this information, because ifthey release it and they haven't
thought of every possiblescenario, then someone in
another country or a foreignadversary could come up with
something that we hadn't thoughtof and then we have no defense
against it because it ispossibly technology that could
blow our minds.
It's something that we haven'teven thought of as civilians.
So he did say that that we haveit, these technologies, and
(27:32):
some of our adversaries do aswell.
He testified that in hisexperience, the UAP programs
have been operating withoutproper congressional oversight
and that he had signeddocumentation preventing him
from discussing these programspublicly.
Like a magnitude of what,though?
Seven Magnitude, as in like.
Travis (28:02):
Well, you have to quantify that magnitude, though
you can't just say magnitude andhave that carry the same weight
.
This guy did, I know he did,and it carried a weight, but he
also said surmise instead ofsurmise.
So there's a lot of likemisspeaking and it probably
comes down to like him being,you know, in a congressional
hearing.
Josh (28:19):
But like, and they have to be quick?
Yeah, because each person onlyhas just a little bit of time.
Travis (28:26):
Yeah, because each person only has just a little
bit of time and they're rushingthem like, okay, okay, okay.
Well, they're rushing more thereps than they are the witnesses
.
But yeah, there is a time limiton it.
Josh (28:32):
Yeah, which is frustrating , but it could go on, for, I
mean, I see why it is important,because some of these people
could probably talk for a verylong time.
So the next witness wasschellenberger when he testified
regarding the immaculateConsolation Special Access
Program, which he alleges isdedicated to recovering and
reverse engineering UAPtechnologies.
(28:52):
That is the document in theorganization that the military
said did not exist, and then hebrings proof that it does, which
pissed Mace off big time, missMace.
He stated that he receivedinformation regarding this
program from a UAP whistleblowerwho provided a report
containing, among other things,information regarding UAP
(29:14):
sightings recorded on militaryand intelligence databases.
He testified that the existenceof the program and the name
Immaculate Consolation wereconfirmed by more than one
source and when asked how manyimages, graphics, videos and
photos were contained in thesedatabases, he stated that he had
been told there were hundreds,maybe thousands, and Congress
(29:34):
has told that this does notexist.
So he also argued that thePentagon and the intelligence
community are treating us likechildren and that it's time for
us to know the truth about UAPUs, which I agree.
It's very obvious that they'redoing something.
Travis (29:48):
Well, what do you mean by they?
Josh (29:50):
I mean they.
That's the big question.
I mean, that's what some ofthese Congress people are saying
, like who are they?
We're stuck.
Where do we get thisinformation?
Who do we go to next?
And that's the issue thatCongress is having.
There's this web of confusion.
Travis (30:04):
That question was asked explicitly by I don't know if it
was mace or moskowitz, but theywere like if you can't answer
these questions, who do we talkto?
Frustratingly, they said well,you know, I can't.
Maybe it was to schellenbergerand, like I, well, I can't
reveal my sources, but it's insome of the reporting that I do.
Josh (30:24):
yeah, lou said I can't do that too.
Travis (30:27):
Yeah, there's one representative, it's just
frustrating because they're likethis is information we're
trying to release to the publicand because they're not asking
the right questions.
Nobody gets anything answered.
Josh (30:38):
Right, and there was one representative that asked.
He's like so I want to see UAPmaterial, I want to hold it.
I want to see biologics.
I want to hold it.
I want to see biologics Give ita little kiss.
Yeah, who?
Who can I?
Where do I go?
We're?
We're at our wits end and wedon't know who to talk to.
Yeah, and that's the big thingis, who's deleting these emails?
Who's telling people to nottalk about this stuff?
(30:59):
We don't have any information.
Yeah.
Travis (31:09):
And that information, yeah, and that's weird, but it's
obviously happening.
It is, but it's probably in aone drive and someone's just
cleaning up a one drive andthey're just like well, you
don't need this informationanymore.
You know somebody who works fora company that has we use one
drive.
Like I've been guilty of justdeleting stuff in that because
I'm like this is from 2012.
Why is this here?
We don't need this information.
It's not relative to anythingthat we need in 2024.
Maybe somebody is doing that.
Maybe it could be as innocuousas that, like well, this is very
(31:32):
old or I'm just going to deleteit.
Josh (31:33):
But there's been times where, like with the TicTac,
where they came in like ahelicopter, flew on the ship,
went in, took all the data andthen left.
You know this was just aquicker way of doing that to
deleting an email.
Yeah, you know.
So there are people out thereactively hiding this information
and they are treating us,Congress and the public, like
(31:54):
children.
It's just like yeah, we havethe answer, but-.
Travis (31:56):
Well, I think that's productive.
I don't think that we'retreating them like children.
I just think we're treatingthem like it's a need to know
type thing, and you don't, youjust don't need to know which is
what I do to my kids.
Yeah, I mean I do that to it'sbecause I said so.
I do that to people that work onmy team.
You know like I'm not going totell you about this thing that's
happening because it doesn'tbenefit you.
You're just looking for areason to gossip and of course I
(32:20):
work for the Pentagon.
I sell beer for the Pentagon.
Yep, on behalf of the Pentagon.
Josh (32:24):
We all work for the Pentagon and if you look at it
in a sad, sad way, Sure yeah, Imean, if you squint.
Yeah, yeah, I don't think youhave to squint very hard.
So the last one was our NASAman, mr Gold.
He acknowledged that nationalsecurity was a primary concern
regarding the UAP issue.
He emphasized that the need fora scientific approach to the
(32:48):
subject, as well as theimportance of data collection oh
my god.
Travis (32:50):
I am just reminded of that clip of lauren bobert
saying she was also on a list.
Like trying to invoke mace, Idon't she was annoying yeah,
she's like I'm on a bunch oflists flat, flat earth birds
Aren't real.
Biden didn't receive thepopular vote.
Uh, what else?
And I was like, yeah.
Josh (33:11):
I rolled my eyes.
Travis (33:12):
I don't mean to derail where you were going, but that
was the worst.
Josh (33:18):
I rolled my eyes I think probably six times in watching
this whole hearing and five ofthem were during her little four
minute talk.
Yeah, she said yeah, this wholehearing, and five of them were
during her little four minutetalk.
Travis (33:26):
Yeah, she said.
Yeah.
She started off like I'm gonnaget through these questions as
fast as possible, I have a lotof questions.
And then she asked like fivequestions and didn't run out of
time.
Josh (33:33):
She had plenty of time yeah, yeah, that was very
bizarre.
It's very apparent that she,god, she's the worst it was very
apparent that she didn't watchany of the other hearings, and
she didn't know, she even saidshe's one of the constellation
yeah, or is that immaculate?
Travis (33:48):
immaculate constellation and she's one of those
representatives that is alwayssaying do your own research, and
she's very apparent she didn't.
She didn't do her own researchor couldn't do her own research,
yeah anyway, uh you saying thathe worked for NASA.
I was just struck by how dumbthat flat earth question was we
(34:11):
saw that two episodes ago likehow worked up I get and how
dangerous it is to say thingslike that.
Josh (34:16):
Yeah, I mean it's baffling .
You know I'm sorry if you're aflat earther and listening to
this and you're upset but itdoesn't make sense.
It doesn't make sense.
I can't say any more than that.
I don't even want to spend theenergy trying to disprove.
It's just like it's crazy.
Travis (34:33):
It just, it just makes me mad so.
Josh (34:35):
Mr Gold.
He, I talked about that too.
It's like we need data and youhave the data.
We don't have the data.
Data is the most importantthing when it comes to discovery
and innovation and you have it.
We want it.
He argued that the stigmaassociated with UAPs is
preventing scientists fromproperly engaging with the
phenomena, stating that evenmembers of the NASA UAP
(34:57):
independent study team wasridiculed and threatened for
their participation in thatresearch effort.
Travis (35:02):
Yeah, which we see a lot of through our research of the
show.
There's a lot of intimidationand character assassination.
Josh (35:10):
Yes, and they're not giving the right resources, data
and finances, and then they'reridiculed for it.
Travis (35:16):
You don't have to disprove what these people are
saying.
You just make this one specificperson feel bad and you dig up
a bunch of shit on this personto have them feel so intimidated
that they have to back off.
Josh (35:29):
Yeah.
So he argued that NASA couldplay a key role in facilitating
research by, among other things,combing NASA archives for UAP
data, potentially using AI andmachine learning algorithms to
make this go really quick.
I mean, they could just digthrough everything with AI and
they have it all.
Yeah, that'd be great, but it'snot happening.
Those are witnesses.
(35:50):
That's what they talked about.
It was fascinating to watch andlearn and hear about this stuff
.
I think that this was importantbecause it kind of got UAPs
even more on the map andrealizing that this is a much
bigger issue.
Some people that I've talked tothat didn't believe in any of
this stuff or didn't knowanything because of this hearing
, they now know things and don'tthink I'm as crazy as I once
(36:12):
was, which is nice.
Yeah, it's kind of a I told youso, yeah, so do you want to
talk about some of the key?
Travis (36:18):
takeaways.
Sure, I mean, my biggesttakeaway actually came after the
hearing I had watched.
Okay, so first off, let off,let's just address the
difference in some of ourinformation.
In this hearing I had watchedsomething that was broadcast by
one of the Fox affiliates out ofDC Fox 5 or whatever their
single camera coverage I thoughtwas embarrassing and maybe even
(36:39):
edited down.
I had watched an hour and 12minute coverage of this hearing,
only to find out when I showedup here I was like an hour shy
of the full hearing.
So I may have missed quite abit of stuff, and I watched
highlights from this and I waslike I don't really remember
that, but okay.
Josh (36:58):
I started watching the Fox one first, and it was as if a
high schooler was filming this,like they're panning left and
right.
Travis (37:06):
They didn't show any of the witnesses Even hear like the
tripod kind of squeaking as itmoved it.
Just it felt very lowproduction, yeah, but anyway,
like my biggest takeaway,because I had maybe not watched
the full version until, likewatching the clips on my way out
here.
Don't tell, the police actuallycame from lou alzondo's news
(37:30):
nation interview after thishearing, where he was asked if
he believed in little green menand the existence of aliens, and
lou was like I can't speak tothat, I haven't seen any
biologics.
You know that's the word thatgets thrown around a lot.
I'm not.
That is not who I.
I'm a nuts and bolts guy.
I will say, yes, the technologyhas come a long way and that
(37:52):
might be a possibility that youknow a foreign agency or a
foreign government might be ableto work this out, or you know
private sector.
But we have records of theseships moving at this speed, with
this maneuverability since the50s and we were just barely
breaking the sound barrier inthe 50s.
So that tells me that there'ssomething else going on.
That was my biggest takeaway.
(38:13):
And then, as I was listening tothis, I was just like struck by
how confident he was and hesaid UAPs are real.
Josh (38:20):
Yes, and knowing his credentials whether some of them
be questioned or not, the onesthat aren't questioned gives him
access to a lot moreinformation than anyone could
know, so his word is highlyregarded as true.
My takeaway is kind of whatthey all talked about there's a
(38:41):
huge lack of transparency andthere's a huge amount of
redacting information where theyaren't allowed to share
anything or they choose whatthey can share, which is just
frustrating.
Yeah, even stuff that has beendeemed okay to share, they
redact 90% of it.
Congressional oversight.
They are bypassing the peoplein charge to make decisions for
(39:04):
the country and they're justdoing whatever they want and
they don't have anyone tellingthem yes, no, so they're.
Basically, I mean, what givesthem the right to make these
moral and ethical decisions withsome of this technology or some
of this subject?
I mean, we don't even know whatit is.
Yeah, and, like May said, if itexists, we need to know,
because you should not be incharge.
(39:25):
And if it doesn't exist, whyare we spending money on
something that doesn't exist?
I think that's really important.
And then that they are a threat.
They're pilots endangered byclose contacts, and I've heard
we've talked about this beforewhere people have actually been
clipped in other countries.
It's really important.
(39:48):
We need to have more data.
Travis (39:48):
Like the NASA guy says, yep, things need to be more
transparent.
It's never going to happen Likethe government is not ever
going to be transparent.
They're just, they're not.
Josh (39:56):
Yeah, maybe not to the masses, but when it comes to
like private sector, like flyingcommercial flights and military
, there needs to be protocols inplace and there needs to be a
data collection center so thatwe can learn maybe some patterns
or training on what pilots doin situations like this, because
they haven't been able to talkabout it up until just recently
I think that's whatSchellenberger had talked about
(40:17):
Like there needs to be adepartment that just reports on
UAPs.
Yeah, I mean, the databaseexists.
There needs to be a databasethat can be combed over and we
can learn some of thisinformation and how to deal with
this, and there should be amilitary database that maybe
isn't public, but there shouldalso be a public database where
(40:39):
we know what's going on aspeople paying for this.
So that was the hearing.
Yeah, uaps are real paying forthis.
So that was the hearing.
Yeah, uaps are real, we haveproof, but it's not being given
to us.
It's a national security threat.
Congress is pissed thateverything is being withheld
from them, which is exciting.
I think it's exciting.
Travis (40:58):
I mean I don't.
I'm not seeing what they'reseeing.
I don't see it as a nationalsecurity risk.
I still I'm of the thinkingthat we need to reach out.
And that was another takeawayfrom the post-hearing interview
with Lou.
He was asked if there has beenany communication and why aren't
we communicating to these UAPsor trying to reach out.
And he's like well, what do youmean?
(41:19):
There's a difference betweenverbal communication, like we
understand, like we're doingright now, and nonverbal.
Josh (41:25):
That was actually in the hearing the hearing.
Travis (41:26):
Oh, he talked about it in the center too.
I don't remember it from thehearing yeah, that might have
been one that you missed, yeahand he was just saying, like
well, we can release these fa18sand that is a form of
communication.
We are showing what ourpotential is and our threat
level by releasing these planes,you know, if something invades
(41:46):
our airspace, so that is a formof communication and that's what
we're seeing with some of theseUAPs.
Josh (41:52):
is that coming into our if I walk up to someone in a bar
and I hover over them and juststand there, that's a form of
communication.
I'm saying I'm trying tointimidate you or I'm watching
you or I just like your scent,yeah, yeah, could be for an
optimist, but having thesedrones and these uaps not hiding
, they're there, I mean that'scommunicating that hey, we're
(42:15):
here, we know you know we'rehere.
Yeah, you can't do anythingabout it.
I'd never thought aboutcommunication in that way, like
a military communication withoutwords.
I thought that was interesting.
Travis (42:25):
Okay, yeah, so now what?
Josh (42:27):
Well, now we hope that more hearings happen, which I
think they will, because we'rejust at the tip of the iceberg
right now.
Travis (42:34):
So this is the third hearing we've had 2022, 2023,
2024.
Do you think they're going tobe yearly or do you think
they're going to be morefrequent?
Josh (42:43):
I think they're going to be yearly, unless things get
wacky.
But yeah, I hope there'sanother hearing soon because
when that happens we'll do anepisode on that.
But this next episode we aregoing to dive into the document
that was released in thishearing.
Travis (42:57):
Oh, no, we're doing the Immaculate Consolation.
Immaculate I think you'resaying it wrong Immaculate,
immaculate.
Josh (43:04):
Have I said it wrong the whole time?
Travis (43:05):
No, I'm doing a callback , josh, to the mispronunciation.
Oh yeah, this is comedy, buddy.
I know Callbacks, I know.
Josh (43:15):
But yeah, I want to know.
Our researcher and my wife hasmade it very clear that I'm not
allowed to research this topic.
I've not been able to read thedocument because she wants a raw
, real, first-time experiencefor us so that we can share that
with you.
Travis (43:34):
It's okay, the internet still exists.
Josh (43:37):
Yeah, but she's banned me from she changed the password on
the internet, not on your phoneno, she didn't.
But I'm just staying true towhat this podcast is.
We didn't want to jump the gunand do a lot of research.
We wanted the firsthandexperience for you guys to hear
our thoughts Do quick research.
Travis (43:55):
Wait, that's what we're doing for the next one no
research whatsoever, because Ido quite a bit.
Josh (44:00):
No, we're going to do quick research.
We're just not going to spendmonths researching.
Travis (44:03):
Well, I mean, I do a week because we don't find out
what the next episode is untilyeah, and we're going to stay
true to that format.
Josh (44:08):
Do you have a quiz?
We do not have a quiz.
We will have a quiz nextepisode and we're going to get
back to what we've been doing inthe past, but we just wanted to
do a three part episode on thehearings and then the biggest
thing that came out of thehearing, which the Immaculate
Consolation document.
Travis (44:24):
Okay, so pretend the internet doesn't exist, We'll
jump right into it.
We'll get the dossier.
What minutes before.
Josh (44:31):
No, we'll get the dossier soon.
Okay, my brother who readthrough it said that we could do
an episode on every line of thedocument, like it is crammed
full of insane information.
We're going to try to describeand go through what this is so
our listeners will have a littlebit better understanding of
something that we don't evenknow what it is yet.
(44:52):
So thank you for listening andwe're really excited that each
and every single one of you hasgiven us great reviews.
Travis (45:01):
Yep, we appreciate your listenage.
Yeah, let's thank our.
Let's thank our people.
Josh (45:06):
Yeah, thank you for listening.
Thank you, jordan.
Travis (45:09):
Thank you, jordan, for the artwork.
Thank you, jordan for the themesong.
Thank you, jordan for theresearch.
Thank you, jordan for theopportunity.
Thank you for the space.
Josh (45:17):
Thank you for teaching me how to edit.
Thank you for teaching.
Travis (45:20):
Josh, how to edit?
Josh (45:23):
Yeah, I think that's all the people.
No, we really couldn't havedone this without Jordan.
Sounds silly, but it's true.
It's true, it's very true.
Well, have a great week.
We look forward to you hearingour next episode.
Yeah, bye.
Aliens Aliens, yes.
Travis (00:09):
But maybe no.
Welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no.
I'm Travis.
I'm Travis.
I'm Josh.
This is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title.
(00:30):
So last week we talked aboutthe UAP hearing, covered off on
some pretty big news thathappened in 2023.
Josh (00:39):
Yeah.
Travis (00:40):
Right, that's how you say it 2023.
2023, baby, yeah it.
Josh (00:46):
Yeah, it was groundbreaking Lots of really
good information that we got outof that.
Travis (00:50):
Yep, we ranked our people, our witnesses.
Josh (00:53):
Yeah, we learned that some of the Congress people are
upset that they're not beinginvolved in some of these
military decisions, and we alsolearned that some people didn't
care.
Travis (01:03):
Yeah, it seemed as though they didn't care.
You could really tell with,like, some of their statements.
It seemed like this was thefirst time they had read those
statements, so you could tellthey were clearly written by an
aide, yes, or maybe they'd putit together.
And then they're like okay, myduty to this, the amount of work
I want to put into this, isdone, it's been satisfied.
I'm going to put it.
This is done, it's beensatisfied, I'm going to move on.
(01:24):
And then they never looked atit again until the hearing.
Josh (01:26):
Right.
Travis (01:26):
Because some really struggled with just reading
their statement.
And these are.
They're not like us.
Josh (01:32):
You know these are professionals, or?
Travis (01:33):
regular people.
These are like Congress peoplewho?
Josh (01:36):
these are the people that are running the country.
Travis (01:37):
Yep, yep, yep.
Pretty disappointing.
That's what I'm finding outwith a lot of these hearings.
Like the people that run thiscountry are very disappointing.
Josh (01:45):
Yeah, it's surprising.
Travis (01:46):
Yeah, we elect them, we do, and that is also
disappointing.
It's like a what's it called AnOuroboros, a snake eating its
own tail, like we just keepfucking ourselves over.
Yeah, yeah.
Josh (01:59):
So that was 2023, 2023.
Yeah, so this episode we'regoing to talk about 2024.
Correct, 2024.
Yeah, in colloquial terms sothe 2024 hearing of unidentified
anomalous phenomenon exposingthe truth.
Travis (02:15):
Okay, yeah, what was the committee that was putting this
on?
It was a.
Josh (02:19):
It was a subcommittee.
Travis (02:20):
It was a very lengthy.
Josh (02:22):
It was a joint, which means a together.
Travis (02:30):
So I'm just going to call it a together committee.
Okay, that sounds happier.
Yeah, there's a show calledsteven universe and they have
this thing called togetherbreakfast, which is I think it's
so endearing.
It's just like everybody comestogether to make a breakfast so
you get like waffles andpancakes and eggs and it's all
just piled on.
It's a lot of.
Josh (02:42):
And I want that same endearingness to be with this a
together hearing.
So it was two subcommitteescoming together the Subcommittee
on Cybersecurity, informationTechnology and Government
Innovation yeah, that's one ofthem and the Subcommittee on
National Security, the Borderand Foreign Affairs.
Travis (03:01):
And this is like what a portion of one long hearing that
they had.
Is that?
Is that correct?
Like are these people, likeMace, sitting in a room and
having witnesses come in and outall day, because this is not a
border security issue that Icould suss out?
Josh (03:18):
The witnesses were all there.
We had four witnesses.
They stayed in the room thewhole time.
Travis (03:22):
I'm just saying were there hearings before and then
are there hearings after?
Do you know, or do they havethis hearing?
And then this is it.
Josh (03:29):
I don't know.
I'm sure there's other hearingsabout national security.
You know, I'm sure that'shappening all the time.
Travis (03:35):
Okay, so, you think that maybe we're just seeing a
portion of this as it pertainsto To UAP?
Josh (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, this is the UAP hearings.
Travis (03:43):
It's not even three.
It's not even in the title.
Josh (03:45):
No, it's not.
But there's no place for UAPsin the government, so they have
to wiggle their way in on someother committees just in our
hearts.
Yeah, together, yeah.
So the testimony from keywitnesses regarding unidentified
anomalous, because it's notaerial, it's both.
Travis (04:05):
They're talking about submerged well and like an
anomaly is like an unchecked,like an unfactored kind of
situation.
Yeah, I don't know how todescribe it, like an anomaly is
something that that happens.
That is kind of it's bizarre.
Josh (04:20):
And yeah, there we go.
Bizarre, yep, yeah.
So a lot of times when I sayUAP, I say unidentified aerial
phenomenon.
Travis (04:28):
They made a clear distinction in this here.
Josh (04:29):
Yeah, it is anomalous because these phenomenons are
not just aerial, they aresubmerged as well.
So the witnesses we have andI'm sure there's a ranking with
these witnesses- Nobody eversays weird things that happen on
land, right?
I think those do exist.
Travis (04:47):
I don't know what they're called, but they do, I
mean, so this would fall underthat category, though, instead
of making it more specific,anomalous makes it now more
broad, right yeah, yeah, itcovers everything.
Josh (04:58):
Yeah, so we have our witnesses.
We're gonna do kill mary, fuck.
Travis (05:02):
No, I'm kidding well, it's the fourth one.
There's four high five he'sjust a.
Watch it astragalus he's justwatching kill mary, fuck watch
yeah, so our four guys retired.
Josh (05:14):
Rear admiral tim gallaudet .
Yeah, he served in the us navyand retired as the commander of
the navy meteorology andoceanography command.
He is currently the chiefexecutive officer at Ocean STL
Consulting.
Travis (05:27):
Okay, then there's Lou Elizondo our boy Lou, wearing a
very sensible collar.
This time, yeah, versus thelast time we saw him.
He had a big collar.
He had a big collar.
He's like a stocky guy, andwearing a tall collar just makes
it look like you don't have aneck.
Josh (05:43):
Like the guy from 90 Day Fiance.
Travis (05:46):
Oh man yeah.
Josh (05:47):
Yeah.
Travis (05:47):
The guy that just goes shoulder to head.
Josh (05:50):
So Lou is a former Department of Defense official
who managed a special accessprogram concerning UAPs on
behalf of the White House andthe National Security Council.
Travis (05:59):
There's a little bit of contention about his work
history.
He claims to be part of thesite, clandestine part of the
Pentagon, and nobody in thePentagon recognizes what he's
done or that department.
So I just wanted to get that.
Josh (06:11):
Which is not a new thing.
Travis (06:13):
Well.
Josh (06:13):
I mean, we talked about this early on.
Travis (06:15):
You know there's a lot of character assassination that
happens in this community, whichkind of adds to that feeling of
them all being paranoid freaks.
That's right.
Call back to our earlierepisodes.
Yep, I'm going to pull up LouElizondo's wiki and read a
little bit from that.
Josh (06:33):
Well, we did a wiki on Bob Lazar and it was very mean,
very rude.
And we also heard from thislast hearing, the 2023 hearing,
that there are people that arespreading misinformation.
Yep.
Travis (06:47):
Okay, so the opening paragraph of his Wikipedia page.
Luis Elizondo is a mediapersonality and author formerly
employed by United States ArmyCounterintelligence and the
Office of the Undersecretary ofDefense for Intelligence.
According to Elizondo, he wasdirector of the now defunct
Advanced Aerospace ThreatIdentification Program, or AATIP
, which was associated with thenow defunct Advanced Aerospace
Threat Identification Program,or AATIP, which was associated
with the Pentagon UFO videos.
(07:07):
Elisande's statements about hisPentagon role with AATIP have
been contested by Pentagonofficials.
Since 2017, he has claimedthere was a government
conspiracy to suppress evidencethat UFOs are of
extraterrestrial origin.
Okay, so just brief history.
He talked about that a littlebit in this hearing.
Yep, brief history.
He talked about that a littlebit in this hearing.
Josh (07:24):
Yep and AATIP was disbanded and AERO has taken its
place as the organizationinside the Pentagon that is
doing the UAP research.
He is also the author of thebestselling book on the subjects
of UAPs.
Travis (07:38):
Good for him.
Yeah, it's got like anexclamation point in the title.
It's like danger, does it?
I don't know?
Oh, it's like danger, does it,I don't know?
Oh, it's inside the pentagon'shunt for ufos imminent.
Okay, it's the title imminent.
That's a good word.
Josh (07:51):
Yeah.
So the third witness, michaelschellenberger.
He's an author and a journalistwho founded, public a
newsletter which recentlypublished a piece about a
purported special access programthat witnesses refer to as
immaculate consolation.
Travis (08:07):
Oh, are we even allowed to say that I?
I've heard no Quoting Rep Mace.
Come at me, bro, now like yeah.
Josh (08:14):
So, mace, in the introduction of this hearing she
said that she was told that shewould be put on a list if she
said the words immaculateconsolation.
Yeah, so it means that we noware on a list with her.
Travis (08:29):
Okay, you okay with that ?
I mean I was, yeah, I'm okaywith that.
I guess I don't know, like,what does that even mean?
We're on a list, okay, fine, Idon't know, what does that do?
Josh (08:45):
Does that mean I?
Travis (08:46):
can't like get on an plane, probably just like a
watch list.
Sure you know they're gonna belistening now a little more
intently.
Well, we haven't releasedanything yet as of.
Josh (08:50):
Oh, they know as I know they know, as time of this,
recording this episode and ussaying it has not been released
I've been raided before we evenstarted this podcast, so they
know, they're aware of what ourpotential is what our reach is.
Travis (09:03):
You had thought crimes that that's exactly it.
It was thought crime.
Josh (09:06):
Yep.
So that was MichaelSchellenberger, the author and
journalist.
And then, lastly, we haveMichael Gold.
He's a former NASA official whoserved on the NASA UAP
independent study team, and heis currently the chief growth
officer at Redwire Space.
Travis (09:22):
What does that mean?
Marketing Headhunting?
Josh (09:24):
Recruiting.
I officer at red wire space.
What does that mean?
Marketing, headhunting,recruiting, I would imagine.
Funding growth, growth.
I feel like that's one of thosewords.
Travis (09:30):
If you say a lot, it just sounds gross yeah, it
sounds like you're saying itgross with the lisp growth.
Josh (09:35):
Yeah, that's really growth yeah, I would imagine he's
trying to grow the category, theidea, the knowledge and the
funding if I can just get you tosay growth two more times,
that'd be great.
Not gonna be it.
Yeah, because he talked about afew times in his responses that
he is all for some of theseprojects that are having
difficulty being funded.
Yeah, so I think that if it'snot part of his job, it is
(09:59):
something he's definitelypassionate about is the lack of
funding when it comes to so isthat a?
Travis (10:02):
private sector job.
It's not part of the governmentand it seems like Lou Elizondo
has also gone into privatesector, but he still has
security clearance, which hetalked a little bit about in his
opening statement.
Josh (10:12):
Yeah.
Travis (10:12):
He was asked like well, is there a threat?
Do you guys feel threatened?
They pose it as like a careerthreat and he's like well, yeah,
there's us coming out thatposes a career threat, a
personal threat and a threat toour security clearances.
Josh (10:26):
Yeah, that you've worked your entire life to get, and
also now their life is dependenton these security clearances
because they need that to beable to further help their cause
, which is getting some of thisstuff answered.
So these are the guys.
Who's your number one?
Who are you taking?
Travis (10:44):
home?
I like Lou.
I think he was my favorite.
Who's your number one?
Who are you taking home?
I like Lou.
I think he was my favorite.
He's very charismatic.
You can tell that he's been apart of this for a long time.
So his statements were veryclean and to the point.
His responses wereappropriately condescending to
some of the reps.
Yeah, that's why he's my numberone.
I don't really remember much ofthe other folks.
(11:04):
I remember when Elizondo walkedin he got an applause.
Josh (11:08):
He's kind of a celebrity.
He's a celebrity yeah.
Travis (11:11):
Like our boy Jeremy, who was there also.
He was standing around in theback.
He's in the audience, ourdocumentarian.
Did you see him?
Did you spot him?
Josh (11:20):
Oh yeah, I did.
Yeah, did you see the tattooman?
Who do you think that could bethe tattoo man?
There's someone that had a lotof tattoos Like a JJ Abrams or a
David Lynch character Blink-182.
Travis (11:34):
Oh, tom DeLonge, I didn't see him.
Josh (11:37):
Yeah, he was there when he was in front row in the stands.
He was just right there, oh.
Travis (11:42):
I missed him.
Yeah, the stands.
He was just right there.
I missed him, yeah, but likelou, is this guy right.
So of course, if lou was there,I should have expected to see
tom de long, but no, I didn'tsee him.
I'll have to re-watch it justjust for that yeah, I would say
lou's my number one.
Josh (11:55):
I didn't like michael gold , the guy from nasa.
At first, yeah, and then I didokay, he was very.
I want to talk about science.
You guys have data.
Science relies on data.
Yeah, give us the data.
Travis (12:09):
That's how I felt about the guy from last week, Graves.
And he was there too, I didn't,yeah, graves, and so was Grush.
Josh (12:16):
Yeah.
Travis (12:17):
But I didn't like Graves at the beginning, but then he
became my number one.
Josh (12:20):
Yeah, I liked how Michael Gold said you know what we're
capturing these UAPs with arenot what should be capturing
UAPs.
We're using cockpit cameras.
Travis (12:32):
They're cockpit gun cameras.
Josh (12:34):
Yeah, he's like if we were using cockpit cameras to study
black holes, we wouldn't knowanything about black holes.
We need to have the data sothat we can create a device to
be able to look at these, andeverything is being withheld.
Yeah, and we're not going toget any information with the
stuff that we're using.
Travis (12:53):
Yeah, it's like playing darts with one eye closed.
Yeah, like your perspective isgoing to be off.
Josh (12:57):
Yeah, you're going to be a little to the left or the right
, mm.
Hmm.
Travis (13:00):
Always to the left for me.
Josh (13:02):
So Michael Schellenberger, the author and journalist, I
just liked how he's there towhistleblow for whistleblowers.
He's not the whistleblower, buthe's the middleman and he's at
all costs going to protecthimself.
He even said he's like I willgo to prison for the safety of
protecting my guys.
Travis (13:20):
Yeah, yep, a journalist at heart.
You know you want to protectyour sources and that's what he
said.
Guys, yeah, yep, a journalistat heart.
You know you want to protectyour sources and that's what he
said.
This is my livelihood.
I'm not going to give up mysource of information for these
kind of hearings.
Josh (13:32):
Yeah.
Travis (13:33):
That that shows integrity.
It does.
But also it's frustrating whenyou're trying to get answers and
they just say like I don't know, uh, you're asking.
And this is a huge frustrationfor me.
watching these last couple ofhearings, I don't watch a lot of
congressional hearings but andmaybe I will going forward
because it's interesting, theseare our elected officials and
I'm not just talking about UAPsjust like any congressional
(13:54):
hearings Maybe I'll startwatching C-SPAN again or
whatever, but that is what is sofrustrating about our elected
officials.
It's not that they're havingthese hearings, it's that the
questions they're asking are notthe right questions Right that
they're having these hearings.
It's that the questions they'reasking are not the right
questions Right, or they'rerepeating questions and they're
not phrasing it in any new ornovel way.
So it's just like thatdefinition of insanity where you
(14:15):
keep doing the same thing overand over again and expecting
different results.
Josh (14:19):
Yeah, I did like Schellenberger.
I mean, he's not an expert atall, so he's just compiling the
information and then letting allthese people have it.
So when they ask him anyquestions about anything, he's
just like I don't know.
All I know is what's in this.
I already presented youeverything.
I don't know, or I don't havean opinion on that.
Like, do you think aliens arereal?
(14:40):
He's like I don't know.
You know.
He just doesn't know.
He's here for a very specificpurpose.
Travis (14:47):
They all are.
I mean, every one of thesehearings have been, and that's
what I'm saying, like that's.
What's frustrating is thequestions that are being asked
of them are like do little greenmen exist?
And they're like I don't.
There's nothing in your readingthat would indicate I would
know if there are little greenmen out there.
Josh (15:10):
Well, let's talk about some of the testimonies, some of
the highlights of thetestimonies.
So let's start with AdmiralGallaudet's testimony and some
of the highlights with that.
So he was really, reallypushing on the lack of
transparency regarding UAPs,even at high levels of
government.
He described an incident thatoccurred in 2015, while serving
as the commander of the NavyMeteorology and Oceanography
Command, where he received anemail regarding a safety concern
(15:30):
involving multiple near midaircollisions with unidentified
objects.
Travis (15:35):
Yeah, and we've talked about this guy's testimony
before right With the GoFastvideo.
Josh (15:40):
I believe so I don't think we talked much about this
aspect where there was an emailand someone was saying like hey,
do you guys see this?
Do you know what's going on?
Do you know anything about this?
And it's known as the go fastvideo, and then the next day the
email disappeared from theaccount without explanation,
(16:00):
which is weird, and they nevertalked about.
Travis (16:02):
no one ever talked about it again yeah, I think that's
just like clandestine governmenttype stuff, though I don't
think that's too weird thatthings just go missing or just
disappear.
Josh (16:13):
Yeah, he explained because one of the Congress people
asked a really great question ofwhy did no one talk about it?
Why didn't you bring it up?
Yeah, and he's like well, wejust assumed that it was above
our clearance and someoneaccidentally brought this up and
it was a special access programthat we weren't involved with
with another intelligence agency, so we didn't want to bring it
(16:35):
up, because if it was that, thenwe could maybe stir some shit
up and we don't want to be introuble, which is completely
understandable, but that's alsowhat they wanted, whoever took
it away.
Yeah, he also stated that hewas recently informed about a
satellite imagery from 2017 thatdepicted a uap, but that this
information had still not beenshared with congress.
(16:56):
I, I'm just blown away, becausecongress is there for a very
particular reason and theyshould know about all this stuff
and they're there to makedecisions for the people and the
pentagon and these militaryagencies.
Travis (17:08):
This is also fringe stuff, like not everybody finds
this as captivating, as you know.
Josh (17:15):
Others but that's what's so frustrating is that they've
taken it upon themselves.
Travis (17:19):
The pentagon and these military people were asked to
take it on by certain members ofcongress like b Burchette and
Luna.
They're the big drivers of this.
And then a little bit of that.
Josh (17:31):
Yeah, I'm talking about the military.
Travis (17:33):
No, yeah, we'll never get answers from the military.
It's not ever forthcoming aboutanything.
And they're supposed to be no.
Josh (17:41):
Well with Congress.
Travis (17:42):
They will say no, they can be, but they don't have to
answer.
They can use national securityas their blanket reasoning why
they're not going to divulge anysort of information or secrets,
because they don't want ourenemies to know troop movements
and militaristic operations, oreven technology.
Josh (18:00):
But they've stepped beyond that because they're using it
doesn't matter, I mean itdoesn't matter, like Congress
says yeah, and they're stillgoing it doesn't matter, I mean
it doesn't matter, like they'reusing taxpayer money.
Travis (18:06):
Congress says yeah, and they're still going to keep
doing it.
That's never going to end.
We are still going to overfundthe military and underfund every
other aspect of our life.
Josh (18:15):
Oh, absolutely.
But the military is a branch ofthe government and so it does
have oversight, or there shouldbe oversight, but no one's
overseeing.
Travis (18:23):
There is, but everybody's like the military
needs all the money it can get.
That's just the nature of ourgovernment.
We see ourselves as a worldpower and we just throw money
away into that.
Josh (18:35):
Yeah.
Travis (18:36):
I mean.
Josh (18:36):
It's sad they basically just have like a license to kill
.
They can just do whatever theywant, they just have a.
Travis (18:42):
Yeah.
And then our veterans come homeand we treat them like dog shit
.
Can just do whatever they want,they just have a yeah.
And then our veterans come homeand we treat them like dog shit
.
And I'm not.
I'm not trying to get political, but just I mean that's a fact.
The military funding ends afteryou've been used.
Josh (18:52):
Yep, well, personally, yeah yeah, but when it comes to
top secret black site operations, we don't even know.
All we do know is that whatmace was saying is the pentagon
has failed every single auditthat they've ever had, and these
auditors don't have access.
Travis (19:09):
These secret little committees and organizations and
they have ways to just likesquirrel money away and get
funding through.
You know, trickery, I guess?
I don't know, that's not theword I'm looking for, but it's
close.
Well, they can say like we needX amount of dollars and they're
like, okay, well, what's it for?
And like, well, don't worryabout what it's for, it's
national security.
(19:29):
But we're the Pentagon.
So you know, kick us down somemoney bro.
Josh (19:34):
Well, that's the thing is there's a whole bunch of black
operations where we have no ideahow much money is being spent
and those aren't being auditedbecause it's above an auditor's
clearance and we don't know howmany black operations there are.
So we're spending a trilliondollars on our military or
whatever.
I don't know.
It could be double thatpotentially.
Yeah, we just don't know, butwhat we do know is what we can
(19:57):
audit is failing every singletime.
And Mace makes a really goodpoint where, if these things are
happening, we should know.
And if it's not happening, whyare we paying for something
that's not happening?
If it is happening, how muchare we paying for it to be
happening?
Travis (20:13):
What a question.
You're doing some circularlogic there.
Josh (20:17):
Yeah, and Mace is the one that's really pushing for this,
like I've talked to you aboutbefore, where I think she wants
to know all this information,but she's trying to like get in
there on their side.
Travis (20:26):
She's coming at it as a budgetary concern, right Like
we're spending this money.
We need to have you guysaccountable for this money and
not you guys, cause, like thesefour people that are there are
not responsible for the moneybeing spent.
They're just witnesses as partof this.
Josh (20:40):
They're trying to get the same information.
Travis (20:42):
Yeah, as part of this bigger division.
Yeah, and that's the thing is,they're asking these questions
of these people that are thereand they don't have the answers
because that's not their area offocus.
So, again, they're asking thewrong questions to the wrong
people, right, they get thesepeople there and then they just
they go off on thisgrandstanding and they turn it
into a political thing.
This is like supposed to belike a release of information.
Josh (21:05):
Yeah, I like how Admiral Gallaudet got really excited
when Ogles, the very lastcongressperson, came in and he
brought up something that peoplehadn't brought up the whole
hearing Just the ridiculousnessof how this is a threat to our
personnel Having closeencounters and being almost
clipped.
We're putting our servicepeople in danger.
(21:28):
They're a threat.
But then he was saying doesn'tour people outweigh the threat
when it comes to nationalsecurity?
A little bit.
They're withholding informationthat could protect these people
because of a threat.
So they're continuing a threatfor another threat.
But we can find a middle ground.
Basically, and these peoplethat are withholding some of
this information that can allowus to make our pilots and all
(21:51):
these people safer is criminal.
It is criminal that they'rewithholding information because
they're putting lives at riskand I love that and the crowd
loved it because he got a bigapplause for that.
Travis (22:02):
Yeah, but I mean it's a crowd of a bunch of paranoid
freaks.
Josh (22:05):
I got emotional.
Travis (22:07):
Did you?
Josh (22:07):
really.
Yeah, I got motivated and alittle emotional when he was
going.
It was just like finally, likesomeone's saying what needs to
be said.
Yeah, the next person was MrElizondo.
He said that UAPs are real andthat in his opinion.
Travis (22:21):
Yeah, what a banger of a statement too.
Josh (22:23):
Yeah, uaps are real and that, in his opinion, some of
them demonstrate advancedtechnologies not made by our
government or any othergovernment.
Travis (22:32):
Which I think it's a weird statement to say
government, because privatesector is also and we're seeing
that especially lately with,like, what's going on with
SpaceX.
The private sector is where alot of money is and it's
unchecked.
Oh, absolutely, there's nogovernment oversight for SpaceX
or for any of these other likelittle space startups that are
(22:54):
happening right.
So to say like there's nogovernment record of these ships
or the building of these shipsor UAPs, is kind of telling.
Josh (23:06):
Yeah, he's saying a lot by not being able to say a lot and
he's very particular with hiswords.
So him saying it's not made byour government or any other
government it's very apparent.
I mean, they mentioned a lot ofother private sector companies,
like Bigelow and some of theothers.
These people are doing crazythings with stuff the military
(23:27):
is giving them.
Yeah, and he also said thatthese UAPs are monitoring
sensitive military installationsaround the globe which we've
seen.
Travis (23:35):
Yeah, we saw them mainly .
What like last year, just afterthe last congressional hearing,
was like November, december oflast year.
Josh (23:42):
Yeah, they said it was like swarms, hive-like swarms.
Which of last year?
Yeah.
They said it was like swarms,Hive-like swarms yeah, which is
freaky.
Travis (23:48):
They didn't say that those were otherworldly.
At least to my recollection,they just referred to them as
drones.
Right, which could have beenany.
I mean, it could have beenChina or, you know, the UK.
As far as we're concerned, itcould be Mexico, it could have
been Canada.
It could have been, canadaCould have been, but it's
happening at their places too.
Josh (24:04):
That's what's weird.
It's happening all around theglobe.
Travis (24:07):
I'm nodding my head yes, in defeat, in concession.
I mean we're seeing thatrecently, like we're seeing
drones on the East Coast, like adense population of drones
there's like a weird, anuncomfortable, very anomalous to
use that word yeah, grouping ofdrones.
There's like a weird, anuncomfortable, anomalous to use
that word yeah, grouping ofdrones.
(24:27):
And we're seeing in the uk notwe, but like humanity is seeing
it in the uk as well yeah, and,and it's not just drones that
they're seeing.
Josh (24:35):
I mean, there's lots of different kinds of drones that
they're seeing, but they're alsoseeing uaps as well, things
that may not be drones they're.
Travis (24:43):
I mean we don't know what's inside there, these ships
, I mean they all not be drones.
I mean we don't know what'sinside these chips.
I mean they all could be drones.
It could be, as far as we'reconcerned, the information
that's given to us.
They could all be unmanned UAPs.
Josh (24:54):
Yeah, lou also stated that the US is in possession of UAP
technologies, as are some of ouradversaries.
Yeah, which would make sense.
We're not the only country inthe world.
Travis (25:03):
Yeah, that's the thing we talked about a little bit on
the last episode and I'm surewe'll find its way through
episodes going forward is we'relooking at a lot of these things
as how they relate to our ownnational security instead of how
they relate to humanity broadly.
There is a real possibilitythat this could move humanity
forward and instead we're beingvery secretive about it and
(25:25):
holding it close to our chestbecause it might pose a threat
to the united states nationalsecurity, instead of like
releasing this information andsaying, like this is a way to
consume energy in a differentway or this is a human problem,
not a united states or a humanlike.
This is something that humanscould use advantageously yeah,
that's.
Josh (25:44):
The sad part is that there are people out there that will
always make something into aweapon.
Yeah, no matter what.
Yeah, and we need protectionagainst that kind of weapon.
I think, before you know,that's what Lou often said.
He's like you know, themilitary is very proactive when
it comes to a problem.
They don't want to just presenta problem, they want the
solution as well.
So problem they don't want tojust present a problem, they
(26:05):
want the solution as well.
Travis (26:06):
So that's why they haven't released anything.
But if you're thinking ofeverything as a weapon, you're
going to want to use everythingas a weapon.
Josh (26:10):
Exactly I agree.
Travis (26:11):
Instead of looking at it as like a way to move humanity
forward.
Right, how can we use this?
Like a lot of military peoplethat get trained to fight and
kill, that's what they want.
Like, I mean even.
Yeah, they're probably trying tomake every possible kind of
weapon Even scale that way down,like our biggest forms of
entertainment MMA, boxing,football all those trainings are
(26:32):
to like essentially hurt otherpeople, and you just look
forward to the next bout or thenext match or the next game so
you can continue to do that.
And then you extrapolate thatup to the military.
Josh (26:45):
When we're creating these things missiles, bullets, guns
you have a real desire to seehow those work out in the field
and to see how that they cancreate a defense for anything
that could possibly come fromthis before they release it,
(27:07):
this information, because ifthey release it and they haven't
thought of every possiblescenario, then someone in
another country or a foreignadversary could come up with
something that we hadn't thoughtof and then we have no defense
against it because it ispossibly technology that could
blow our minds.
It's something that we haven'teven thought of as civilians.
So he did say that that we haveit, these technologies, and
(27:32):
some of our adversaries do aswell.
He testified that in hisexperience, the UAP programs
have been operating withoutproper congressional oversight
and that he had signeddocumentation preventing him
from discussing these programspublicly.
Like a magnitude of what,though?
Seven Magnitude, as in like.
Travis (28:02):
Well, you have to quantify that magnitude, though
you can't just say magnitude andhave that carry the same weight
.
This guy did, I know he did,and it carried a weight, but he
also said surmise instead ofsurmise.
So there's a lot of likemisspeaking and it probably
comes down to like him being,you know, in a congressional
hearing.
Josh (28:19):
But like, and they have to be quick?
Yeah, because each person onlyhas just a little bit of time.
Travis (28:26):
Yeah, because each person only has just a little
bit of time and they're rushingthem like, okay, okay, okay.
Well, they're rushing more thereps than they are the witnesses
.
But yeah, there is a time limiton it.
Josh (28:32):
Yeah, which is frustrating , but it could go on, for, I
mean, I see why it is important,because some of these people
could probably talk for a verylong time.
So the next witness wasschellenberger when he testified
regarding the immaculateConsolation Special Access
Program, which he alleges isdedicated to recovering and
reverse engineering UAPtechnologies.
(28:52):
That is the document in theorganization that the military
said did not exist, and then hebrings proof that it does, which
pissed Mace off big time, missMace.
He stated that he receivedinformation regarding this
program from a UAP whistleblowerwho provided a report
containing, among other things,information regarding UAP
(29:14):
sightings recorded on militaryand intelligence databases.
He testified that the existenceof the program and the name
Immaculate Consolation wereconfirmed by more than one
source and when asked how manyimages, graphics, videos and
photos were contained in thesedatabases, he stated that he had
been told there were hundreds,maybe thousands, and Congress
(29:34):
has told that this does notexist.
So he also argued that thePentagon and the intelligence
community are treating us likechildren and that it's time for
us to know the truth about UAPUs, which I agree.
It's very obvious that they'redoing something.
Travis (29:48):
Well, what do you mean by they?
Josh (29:50):
I mean they.
That's the big question.
I mean, that's what some ofthese Congress people are saying
, like who are they?
We're stuck.
Where do we get thisinformation?
Who do we go to next?
And that's the issue thatCongress is having.
There's this web of confusion.
Travis (30:04):
That question was asked explicitly by I don't know if it
was mace or moskowitz, but theywere like if you can't answer
these questions, who do we talkto?
Frustratingly, they said well,you know, I can't.
Maybe it was to schellenbergerand, like I, well, I can't
reveal my sources, but it's insome of the reporting that I do.
Josh (30:24):
yeah, lou said I can't do that too.
Travis (30:27):
Yeah, there's one representative, it's just
frustrating because they're likethis is information we're
trying to release to the publicand because they're not asking
the right questions.
Nobody gets anything answered.
Josh (30:38):
Right, and there was one representative that asked.
He's like so I want to see UAPmaterial, I want to hold it.
I want to see biologics.
I want to hold it.
I want to see biologics Give ita little kiss.
Yeah, who?
Who can I?
Where do I go?
We're?
We're at our wits end and wedon't know who to talk to.
Yeah, and that's the big thingis, who's deleting these emails?
Who's telling people to nottalk about this stuff?
(30:59):
We don't have any information.
Yeah.
Travis (31:09):
And that information, yeah, and that's weird, but it's
obviously happening.
It is, but it's probably in aone drive and someone's just
cleaning up a one drive andthey're just like well, you
don't need this informationanymore.
You know somebody who works fora company that has we use one
drive.
Like I've been guilty of justdeleting stuff in that because
I'm like this is from 2012.
Why is this here?
We don't need this information.
It's not relative to anythingthat we need in 2024.
Maybe somebody is doing that.
Maybe it could be as innocuousas that, like well, this is very
(31:32):
old or I'm just going to deleteit.
Josh (31:33):
But there's been times where, like with the TicTac,
where they came in like ahelicopter, flew on the ship,
went in, took all the data andthen left.
You know this was just aquicker way of doing that to
deleting an email.
Yeah, you know.
So there are people out thereactively hiding this information
and they are treating us,Congress and the public, like
(31:54):
children.
It's just like yeah, we havethe answer, but-.
Travis (31:56):
Well, I think that's productive.
I don't think that we'retreating them like children.
I just think we're treatingthem like it's a need to know
type thing, and you don't, youjust don't need to know which is
what I do to my kids.
Yeah, I mean I do that to it'sbecause I said so.
I do that to people that work onmy team.
You know like I'm not going totell you about this thing that's
happening because it doesn'tbenefit you.
You're just looking for areason to gossip and of course I
(32:20):
work for the Pentagon.
I sell beer for the Pentagon.
Yep, on behalf of the Pentagon.
Josh (32:24):
We all work for the Pentagon and if you look at it
in a sad, sad way, Sure yeah, Imean, if you squint.
Yeah, yeah, I don't think youhave to squint very hard.
So the last one was our NASAman, mr Gold.
He acknowledged that nationalsecurity was a primary concern
regarding the UAP issue.
He emphasized that the need fora scientific approach to the
(32:48):
subject, as well as theimportance of data collection oh
my god.
Travis (32:50):
I am just reminded of that clip of lauren bobert
saying she was also on a list.
Like trying to invoke mace, Idon't she was annoying yeah,
she's like I'm on a bunch oflists flat, flat earth birds
Aren't real.
Biden didn't receive thepopular vote.
Uh, what else?
And I was like, yeah.
Josh (33:11):
I rolled my eyes.
Travis (33:12):
I don't mean to derail where you were going, but that
was the worst.
Josh (33:18):
I rolled my eyes I think probably six times in watching
this whole hearing and five ofthem were during her little four
minute talk.
Yeah, she said yeah, this wholehearing, and five of them were
during her little four minutetalk.
Travis (33:26):
Yeah, she said.
Yeah.
She started off like I'm gonnaget through these questions as
fast as possible, I have a lotof questions.
And then she asked like fivequestions and didn't run out of
time.
Josh (33:33):
She had plenty of time yeah, yeah, that was very
bizarre.
It's very apparent that she,god, she's the worst it was very
apparent that she didn't watchany of the other hearings, and
she didn't know, she even saidshe's one of the constellation
yeah, or is that immaculate?
Travis (33:48):
immaculate constellation and she's one of those
representatives that is alwayssaying do your own research, and
she's very apparent she didn't.
She didn't do her own researchor couldn't do her own research,
yeah anyway, uh you saying thathe worked for NASA.
I was just struck by how dumbthat flat earth question was we
(34:11):
saw that two episodes ago likehow worked up I get and how
dangerous it is to say thingslike that.
Josh (34:16):
Yeah, I mean it's baffling .
You know I'm sorry if you're aflat earther and listening to
this and you're upset but itdoesn't make sense.
It doesn't make sense.
I can't say any more than that.
I don't even want to spend theenergy trying to disprove.
It's just like it's crazy.
Travis (34:33):
It just, it just makes me mad so.
Josh (34:35):
Mr Gold.
He, I talked about that too.
It's like we need data and youhave the data.
We don't have the data.
Data is the most importantthing when it comes to discovery
and innovation and you have it.
We want it.
He argued that the stigmaassociated with UAPs is
preventing scientists fromproperly engaging with the
phenomena, stating that evenmembers of the NASA UAP
(34:57):
independent study team wasridiculed and threatened for
their participation in thatresearch effort.
Travis (35:02):
Yeah, which we see a lot of through our research of the
show.
There's a lot of intimidationand character assassination.
Josh (35:10):
Yes, and they're not giving the right resources, data
and finances, and then they'reridiculed for it.
Travis (35:16):
You don't have to disprove what these people are
saying.
You just make this one specificperson feel bad and you dig up
a bunch of shit on this personto have them feel so intimidated
that they have to back off.
Josh (35:29):
Yeah.
So he argued that NASA couldplay a key role in facilitating
research by, among other things,combing NASA archives for UAP
data, potentially using AI andmachine learning algorithms to
make this go really quick.
I mean, they could just digthrough everything with AI and
they have it all.
Yeah, that'd be great, but it'snot happening.
Those are witnesses.
(35:50):
That's what they talked about.
It was fascinating to watch andlearn and hear about this stuff
.
I think that this was importantbecause it kind of got UAPs
even more on the map andrealizing that this is a much
bigger issue.
Some people that I've talked tothat didn't believe in any of
this stuff or didn't knowanything because of this hearing
, they now know things and don'tthink I'm as crazy as I once
(36:12):
was, which is nice.
Yeah, it's kind of a I told youso, yeah, so do you want to
talk about some of the key?
Travis (36:18):
takeaways.
Sure, I mean, my biggesttakeaway actually came after the
hearing I had watched.
Okay, so first off, let off,let's just address the
difference in some of ourinformation.
In this hearing I had watchedsomething that was broadcast by
one of the Fox affiliates out ofDC Fox 5 or whatever their
single camera coverage I thoughtwas embarrassing and maybe even
(36:39):
edited down.
I had watched an hour and 12minute coverage of this hearing,
only to find out when I showedup here I was like an hour shy
of the full hearing.
So I may have missed quite abit of stuff, and I watched
highlights from this and I waslike I don't really remember
that, but okay.
Josh (36:58):
I started watching the Fox one first, and it was as if a
high schooler was filming this,like they're panning left and
right.
Travis (37:06):
They didn't show any of the witnesses Even hear like the
tripod kind of squeaking as itmoved it.
Just it felt very lowproduction, yeah, but anyway,
like my biggest takeaway,because I had maybe not watched
the full version until, likewatching the clips on my way out
here.
Don't tell, the police actuallycame from lou alzondo's news
(37:30):
nation interview after thishearing, where he was asked if
he believed in little green menand the existence of aliens, and
lou was like I can't speak tothat, I haven't seen any
biologics.
You know that's the word thatgets thrown around a lot.
I'm not.
That is not who I.
I'm a nuts and bolts guy.
I will say, yes, the technologyhas come a long way and that
(37:52):
might be a possibility that youknow a foreign agency or a
foreign government might be ableto work this out, or you know
private sector.
But we have records of theseships moving at this speed, with
this maneuverability since the50s and we were just barely
breaking the sound barrier inthe 50s.
So that tells me that there'ssomething else going on.
That was my biggest takeaway.
(38:13):
And then, as I was listening tothis, I was just like struck by
how confident he was and hesaid UAPs are real.
Josh (38:20):
Yes, and knowing his credentials whether some of them
be questioned or not, the onesthat aren't questioned gives him
access to a lot moreinformation than anyone could
know, so his word is highlyregarded as true.
My takeaway is kind of whatthey all talked about there's a
(38:41):
huge lack of transparency andthere's a huge amount of
redacting information where theyaren't allowed to share
anything or they choose whatthey can share, which is just
frustrating.
Yeah, even stuff that has beendeemed okay to share, they
redact 90% of it.
Congressional oversight.
They are bypassing the peoplein charge to make decisions for
(39:04):
the country and they're justdoing whatever they want and
they don't have anyone tellingthem yes, no, so they're.
Basically, I mean, what givesthem the right to make these
moral and ethical decisions withsome of this technology or some
of this subject?
I mean, we don't even know whatit is.
Yeah, and, like May said, if itexists, we need to know,
because you should not be incharge.
(39:25):
And if it doesn't exist, whyare we spending money on
something that doesn't exist?
I think that's really important.
And then that they are a threat.
They're pilots endangered byclose contacts, and I've heard
we've talked about this beforewhere people have actually been
clipped in other countries.
It's really important.
(39:48):
We need to have more data.
Travis (39:48):
Like the NASA guy says, yep, things need to be more
transparent.
It's never going to happen Likethe government is not ever
going to be transparent.
They're just, they're not.
Josh (39:56):
Yeah, maybe not to the masses, but when it comes to
like private sector, like flyingcommercial flights and military
, there needs to be protocols inplace and there needs to be a
data collection center so thatwe can learn maybe some patterns
or training on what pilots doin situations like this, because
they haven't been able to talkabout it up until just recently
I think that's whatSchellenberger had talked about
(40:17):
Like there needs to be adepartment that just reports on
UAPs.
Yeah, I mean, the databaseexists.
There needs to be a databasethat can be combed over and we
can learn some of thisinformation and how to deal with
this, and there should be amilitary database that maybe
isn't public, but there shouldalso be a public database where
(40:39):
we know what's going on aspeople paying for this.
So that was the hearing.
Yeah, uaps are real paying forthis.
So that was the hearing.
Yeah, uaps are real, we haveproof, but it's not being given
to us.
It's a national security threat.
Congress is pissed thateverything is being withheld
from them, which is exciting.
I think it's exciting.
Travis (40:58):
I mean I don't.
I'm not seeing what they'reseeing.
I don't see it as a nationalsecurity risk.
I still I'm of the thinkingthat we need to reach out.
And that was another takeawayfrom the post-hearing interview
with Lou.
He was asked if there has beenany communication and why aren't
we communicating to these UAPsor trying to reach out.
And he's like well, what do youmean?
(41:19):
There's a difference betweenverbal communication, like we
understand, like we're doingright now, and nonverbal.
Josh (41:25):
That was actually in the hearing the hearing.
Travis (41:26):
Oh, he talked about it in the center too.
I don't remember it from thehearing yeah, that might have
been one that you missed, yeahand he was just saying, like
well, we can release these fa18sand that is a form of
communication.
We are showing what ourpotential is and our threat
level by releasing these planes,you know, if something invades
(41:46):
our airspace, so that is a formof communication and that's what
we're seeing with some of theseUAPs.
Josh (41:52):
is that coming into our if I walk up to someone in a bar
and I hover over them and juststand there, that's a form of
communication.
I'm saying I'm trying tointimidate you or I'm watching
you or I just like your scent,yeah, yeah, could be for an
optimist, but having thesedrones and these uaps not hiding
, they're there, I mean that'scommunicating that hey, we're
(42:15):
here, we know you know we'rehere.
Yeah, you can't do anythingabout it.
I'd never thought aboutcommunication in that way, like
a military communication withoutwords.
I thought that was interesting.
Travis (42:25):
Okay, yeah, so now what?
Josh (42:27):
Well, now we hope that more hearings happen, which I
think they will, because we'rejust at the tip of the iceberg
right now.
Travis (42:34):
So this is the third hearing we've had 2022, 2023,
2024.
Do you think they're going tobe yearly or do you think
they're going to be morefrequent?
Josh (42:43):
I think they're going to be yearly, unless things get
wacky.
But yeah, I hope there'sanother hearing soon because
when that happens we'll do anepisode on that.
But this next episode we aregoing to dive into the document
that was released in thishearing.
Travis (42:57):
Oh, no, we're doing the Immaculate Consolation.
Immaculate I think you'resaying it wrong Immaculate,
immaculate.
Josh (43:04):
Have I said it wrong the whole time?
Travis (43:05):
No, I'm doing a callback , josh, to the mispronunciation.
Oh yeah, this is comedy, buddy.
I know Callbacks, I know.
Josh (43:15):
But yeah, I want to know.
Our researcher and my wife hasmade it very clear that I'm not
allowed to research this topic.
I've not been able to read thedocument because she wants a raw
, real, first-time experiencefor us so that we can share that
with you.
Travis (43:34):
It's okay, the internet still exists.
Josh (43:37):
Yeah, but she's banned me from she changed the password on
the internet, not on your phoneno, she didn't.
But I'm just staying true towhat this podcast is.
We didn't want to jump the gunand do a lot of research.
We wanted the firsthandexperience for you guys to hear
our thoughts Do quick research.
Travis (43:55):
Wait, that's what we're doing for the next one no
research whatsoever, because Ido quite a bit.
Josh (44:00):
No, we're going to do quick research.
We're just not going to spendmonths researching.
Travis (44:03):
Well, I mean, I do a week because we don't find out
what the next episode is untilyeah, and we're going to stay
true to that format.
Josh (44:08):
Do you have a quiz?
We do not have a quiz.
We will have a quiz nextepisode and we're going to get
back to what we've been doing inthe past, but we just wanted to
do a three part episode on thehearings and then the biggest
thing that came out of thehearing, which the Immaculate
Consolation document.
Travis (44:24):
Okay, so pretend the internet doesn't exist, We'll
jump right into it.
We'll get the dossier.
What minutes before.
Josh (44:31):
No, we'll get the dossier soon.
Okay, my brother who readthrough it said that we could do
an episode on every line of thedocument, like it is crammed
full of insane information.
We're going to try to describeand go through what this is so
our listeners will have a littlebit better understanding of
something that we don't evenknow what it is yet.
(44:52):
So thank you for listening andwe're really excited that each
and every single one of you hasgiven us great reviews.
Travis (45:01):
Yep, we appreciate your listenage.
Yeah, let's thank our.
Let's thank our people.
Josh (45:06):
Yeah, thank you for listening.
Thank you, jordan.
Travis (45:09):
Thank you, jordan, for the artwork.
Thank you, jordan for the themesong.
Thank you, jordan for theresearch.
Thank you, jordan for theopportunity.
Thank you for the space.
Josh (45:17):
Thank you for teaching me how to edit.
Thank you for teaching.
Travis (45:20):
Josh, how to edit?
Josh (45:23):
Yeah, I think that's all the people.
No, we really couldn't havedone this without Jordan.
Sounds silly, but it's true.
It's true, it's very true.
Well, have a great week.
We look forward to you hearingour next episode.
Yeah, bye.
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