Aliens at Roswell? Unpacking the Mysterious UFO Crash

In this episode, we’re sifting through the wreckage of the Roswell incident, trying to separate fact from fiction (which is harder than it sounds). 

We're tackling crashed spacecraft, "memory metal," and the ever-shifting narratives surrounding the event. Was it extraterrestrial ⎯ or just a government cover-up? 

So, buckle up, stay curious, and join us for another episode of semi-informed guesswork, outlandish theories, and a healthy dose of doubt.

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Episode Transcript

Josh (00:05):
aliens yes but maybe no.
Hey guys, welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no, butmaybe no.

(00:27):
I'm Travis, I'm Josh.
This is another worldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title.
Let's talk a little bit aboutlast week.
So last week we talked aboutBob Lazar.
Yes, right, that was kind of aneye opener for me.
I didn't know much about him.

Travis (00:40):
Being able to sleep on a little bit change your
perspective.

Josh (00:42):
No, I don't know.
I don't mean I don't know.
I don't mean, I don't know,maybe not, I don't know, I don't
know.
I don't remember what myperspective was.
I I'm still in the camp ofaliens exist, but the culture
around, like the community, is alittle mixed for me.

Travis (00:59):
But I do you made that very clear yeah, I'm sorry.

Josh (01:02):
I called you guys a bunch of paranoid freaks in the last
episode.
I'm still probably going to dosorry.
I called you guys a bunch ofparanoid freaks in the last
episode.
I'm still probably going to dothat.
So apology redacted.
Suck it.
Paranoid freaks, that's greatyou be you.
So this week we're going tojump right in to another big
piece of the alien.
Aliens exist, history,community conspiracy, what have

(01:23):
you?

Travis (01:23):
One of the biggest yeah, one of what have you?
One of the biggest, yeah, oneof the biggest topics, one of
the most well-known this is thebig one.

Josh (01:29):
This is the one that, if you don't know anything about
aliens, you at least know aboutthe Roswell incident.

Travis (01:33):
Yep, right.
And if you don't, you've atleast heard about the name
Roswell.

Josh (01:38):
Yeah, you know Roswell and Area 51.
Probably you can associate thetwo.

Travis (01:41):
Lots of movie references .
Men in Black.

Josh (01:43):
Sure, I wanted to watch Men in Black before we recorded
the show, but I didn't have time.

Travis (01:47):
Oh yeah.

Josh (01:48):
That is a good one, but I think that would have like
influenced my impression ofRoswell for the show, and so I'm
kind of glad that I didn'twatch Men in Black as a, you
know, as a fictional retellingof what this is as your yeah
yeah it's, I mean it is I.
When I first saw men in black,I thought it was a documentary

(02:09):
no, no, you didn't I did.
I thought it was a documentary.
I thought it was a documentaryabout aliens here on earth.
It's not.

Travis (02:15):
I mean, I know that now well, the men in black is a
potentially a real thing okaywe'll do an episode on that
someday, but there is tons.

Josh (02:24):
They exist.
Do they have a neural geyser?

Travis (02:27):
I don't think so.

Josh (02:28):
That pen thing that erases your memory.

Travis (02:29):
No, I doubt that.

Josh (02:31):
Or do they?
There's a lot of you ever hadlost time.

Travis (02:34):
Josh, oh yeah, yeah, it's usually alcohol induced.
They have a lot of instanceswhere aliens show up or that
someone sees a spacecraft orsomething weird and then the
next day or shortly after, menin black come and harass and try
to dispel anything.
They're like did you see that?

(02:54):
And they're like, yeah, I did.
And then the men in black werelike no, you didn't and you're
not going to tell anyone aboutit.

Josh (03:00):
But eyewitness accounts are so weird.
So we talked about last week myincident of being raided in my
house because I was startingthis podcast.
I wrote all the experiences Ihad down on a piece of paper and
even then I was like, well, wasit really a green hat that I
saw?
Was it really black shorts andgreen spots on it?

Travis (03:18):
So I didn't really get raided for starting a podcast.
No, we talked about this on thelast episode but what if this
is their first episode theylisten to?
Well then, you made a mistakeand then they, and then they
think well, these guys are legitif you're if you're hearing
this for the first time that Igot rated hit.

Josh (03:33):
Pause, go back and listen to the first episode, then come
back and start this one up.
Okay, so I was rated at myhouse by four cops.
I wrote everything down becauseI'm I'm a weirdo and I know
that memory is very subjectiveand it's a hard thing and it's
very influenceable.
I don't know if that's a word,but if you have somebody that

(03:56):
recounts the same memory thatyou have, if it's more funny or
entertaining memory, you tend toremember it that way, as it
happened, that way.

Travis (04:05):
Yeah, I would imagine it depends on the mood you're in
or what emotions you're feeling,or lots of things.

Josh (04:10):
Memory is subjective to a lot of things.
Number one, though, is emotion.
Right, like, your memory istied to emotion and smells.
I guess I was told in highschool that, if you were
studying for a test, the bestway to remember all this
information that you're like,maybe cramming for, is to smell
an orange as you're studying,and then, right before you go

(04:32):
and take a test, get an orange,crack it open.

Travis (04:36):
Interesting.
I've never heard that.

Josh (04:38):
Crack open an orange.

Travis (04:39):
Yeah.

Josh (04:39):
And then that smell will help.

Travis (04:41):
I think you're talking about those chocolate oranges,
those ones.
Yeah, you do have to crackthose, smell will help.

Josh (04:43):
I think you're talking about those chocolate oranges,
those ones, yeah, you have youdo have to crack those I don't
know I do.
I open an orange pretty hard.
You just smash it on the table.
Right they come in foil no,that's candy.

Travis (04:54):
You've been, you've been eating candy this whole time
and you think you've beenhealthy.

Josh (04:58):
I don't know what fruit is .
No, I've.
No, I've not been healthy man.
I make a lot of bad personalchoices.
What we're going to do is we'regoing to have a little bit of
story time where I'm going toread a story written by our
famed researcher, jordanInfamous.
Yeah, she's infamous.
She makes a lot of otherpodcasters very scared because
she is so good at what she does.

(05:19):
Yeah, so infamy.
Yeah, sure, yep, infamy.
And yeah, sure, yep, infamy.
And fame-y.
Fame-y yeah, that's a word.
Yeah, fame-y are both veryintimidating.
So, dear listener, tuck in,relax, listen to the dulcet
tones of my voice as I recountto you the beginning of the
Roswell incident as compiled byour researcher Jordan.

(05:42):
Compiled by our researcherJordan.
On June 14, 1947, rancher WWMack Brazile and his son Vernon
stumbled upon a strange crashwhile driving across their ranch
land 80 miles northwest ofRoswell, new Mexico.
Scattered across the gravel andsagebrush was a large area of
wreckage composed of rubberstrips, tinfoil, tough paper and
sticks.
The metallic-looking fabric waslightweight and shredded.
Initially, mack left the debriswhere it.

(06:02):
The metallic-looking fabric waslightweight and shredded.
Initially, mack left the debriswhere it was, but later changed
his mind and returned to thecrash site.
Three days later, on July 7th,he drove to Roswell to deliver
the mysterious materials toSheriff George Wilcox.
Equally baffled, wilcoxcontacted Colonel Butch
Blanchard, commander of theRoswell Army Airfield's 509th

(06:23):
Composite Group.
Blanchard, uncertain about thenature of the wreckage, reached
out to his superior, generalRoger W Ramey, and dispatched
Major Jesse Marcell, anintelligence officer, to
investigate the site withRoswell and the sheriff.
Pieces of the wreckage includedthin metal-like foil that was
virtually indestructible, memorymetal that would return to its
original shape after beingcrumpled, and beams with

(06:45):
hieroglyphic-like markings thatresisted identification.
These materials were unlike theconventional aircraft or
weather balloon components knownat the time.
The metal-like substance couldnot be cut, burned or even
permanently bent, suggesting alevel of technological
sophistication far beyond 1940scapabilities.
Subsequent lab tests, asinferred from testimonies and

(07:07):
leaked documents, reveal thatsome components might have
contained unknown elements orcomposites that further deepen
the mystery.
The operation quickly expandedto involve more military experts
and resources.
Colonel William Blanchard,commanding officer of the
Roswell Army Airfield, took aparticular interest in the
debris.
He ordered the materials to betransferred to Wright-Patterson

(07:27):
Air Force Base in Ohio forfurther analysis.
Okay, so I think there's a lotto unpack here.
First off the Roswell Army AirForce Base further into our
dossier is going to be referredto RAAF, so we'll just set that
out.
Raf, yeah, raf.
Another one is just talkingabout the material.

(07:48):
Maybe you know more about thisthan I do, but it crashed right,
so what caused it to breakapart?
If this thing is seeminglyindestructible, that's a really
good question.
Josh just made a wide openmouth face, like he didn't
expect me to ask that questionyeah, I didn't.

Travis (08:06):
Uh, I wasn't prepared, I I don't know.
Maybe at certain levels orcertain speeds or something like
that, maybe there's an internalblow up if they're using
gravity so that that was anotherthing.

Josh (08:19):
It's like this spaceship came from somewhere else, right,
where like hypotheticallythat's what we're saying their
gravity might be different thanhere.
So once they entered earth'satmosphere, at like, they didn't
have the correct propulsion tobalance out what that gravity
would do to their ship, right?
Does that make?
Does that make sense?
I'm not like a mathematician ora gravity scientist, but I know

(08:43):
that things fall at a certainrate here.
Our earth gravity is pretty.
It's enough to sustain life,but it's also like there's a
presence of it, like if you wereto jump, you're going to get
pulled right back down to earth.
That's why, like basketballplayers, vertical or their
ability to jump high is sorevered, right?
yeah and when you go on the moonyou can just like jump and

(09:04):
float for 15 feet or meters,which is even longer, who knows
how long.
So maybe that played a part inin like the ship crashing, or it
was like maybe an outside forcelike this base, this army base
shot it down but that there's norecords indicating that they
had fired any sort of ballisticmissile or had shot upon a craft

(09:28):
.
It seemed like a surprise uponfurther reading of our dossier.
It seemed like a surprise tothe Air Force base it landed on
this ranch.

Travis (09:35):
Well, yeah, I mean it took the farmer three days to
come back.
So I mean, if they shot it downthey would have gone right out.

Josh (09:41):
Right, so nobody saw it.

Travis (09:43):
Right.

Josh (09:44):
And this farmer found this stuff and then there was a like
a major that was sent out toinvestigate it Right, and he
brought it home and with his kidMarcel I think is their name.
So he was a major, his kidbecame a doctor.
I didn't really do a lot ofresearch on on kid but I'm sure
you know, in our interveningbreaks or whatever, I'll look

(10:06):
that up, find out what it ishe's.
He has a commercial breaks yeah,commercial breaks, yeah, where
we do ad breaks for uh mooby orhymns yeah, sure, casper.

Travis (10:17):
Yeah, oh man, I would love a new mattress I would.

Josh (10:20):
I would too casper, if you're listening.
Yeah, I mean, maybe be great oruh great, or Bombas Socks.

Travis (10:26):
Bombas.
I'm a sockman, I like socks, Ilove me some socks.

Josh (10:29):
I do too, man.
I don't like not having my feetcovered.

Travis (10:32):
I don't either.
Yeah, so I think, going back toour last episode with Bob Lazar
, he explained and I don't knowif this is the same spacecraft
that he's seen, but he wasexplaining that they were in
control of gravity so this wasin 1947.
This was well before bob lazarwas even on this planet but he
was working at a base where theyhad nine spaceships that they

(10:52):
were reverse engineering yeah,but who knows, like in the
intervening years, because boblazar didn't.

Josh (10:58):
So what if this?

Travis (10:58):
was one of the spaceships, so they had the
technology to well.
This was a change of the't.

Josh (11:03):
I mean, just according to this, this wasn't a full
spaceship, this was debris, thiswas just parts of a ship and I
guess the material, if you wereto crumple it up, it would
reform.
They said spring back, butagain, like when we're talking
about memory, which makes youthink that it's organic almost.
Yeah, like, yeah it has a memoryIf you push on your skin and it

(11:25):
just kind of comes back yeah,kind of, but they said spring
back.
I don't know, I wasn't there, Ididn't see it, but there were
pictures of this major with thistinfoil that's in our.
It looks like tinfoil in ourdossier.

Travis (11:37):
That was actually a picture of him posing in front
of a tinfoil weather balloon.
That was a staged photo.
He was summoned to the airbase.

Josh (11:47):
Major Jesse Marcel.

Travis (11:49):
Yeah.
So what happened was on July8th, the Roswell Daily Record
published RAF captures flyingsaucer on ranch in Roswell.
The article announced that theintelligence officer of the
509th bombardment group ofRoswell Army Airfield announced
at noon today that the field hascome into possession of a

(12:10):
flying saucer.
And that was a big no-no.

Josh (12:14):
Right, that was a big no-no.
Why was that a big no-no?
Is it okay to release militaryinformation to the public?
I don't think so I mean now Iknow so.
So later, when him and his sonstarted talking about this
because he had to sign, likebasically what we know now as an

(12:35):
NDA a nondisclosure agreementright when he was told he
couldn't talk about the thingsthat he saw, well, in the 70s,
he decided fuck this, I sawsomething.
I feel like it's in thepublic's best interest to know
this information.
I am going to talk about this.
We talked about whistleblowerslast week with bob lazar, like
that was a big.

Travis (12:52):
Yeah, he's one of the the first whistleblowers, sure,
and his son, who he showed thatstuff is still active yep, today
still active in the aliencommunity.
No, he's, he's, he's dead nowthe son, yeah, oh yeah, he
passed there, they, they passed,they both passed I thought I
saw him recently in adocumentary, maybe it was you
could have seen him in thedocumentary video.

Josh (13:13):
Lasts forever ah it's not true well, vhs doesn't, but
digital does, as long as we havethe internet, you know, and the
cloud.
So him, without conferring tohis elites his bosses, yeah, his
direct supervisors, right yeah,direct reports.

Travis (13:34):
He just says what it is.
This is a guy who knows things.
He's been in the military for avery long time.
He knows that it's not justaluminum and paper.
The article comes out, hissuperiors get pissed off and the
public was just captivated byit.
But on july 9th the us wardepartment issued a statement

(13:55):
debunking the flying saucer.
So the next day there's a newarticle.
Yeah, that said, the debris wasfrom a weather balloon, the
roswell dispatch.
The morning headline read armydebunks roswell flying disc as
world simmers with excitement.
The roswell incident is one ofthe four ufo related accounts

(14:16):
that appeared just on the frontpage on july 9th, the same day
around the world.
So the other items carrizozoman sees flying disc.
Joe massey spots disc overroswell in an image of an
unknown object in the sky overseattle, washington, with a
caption that asks the questionis this a flying disc?
Yeah, so july 9th was a hot dayfor flying discs, but on the

(14:39):
same they also had a frisbeegolf tournament that day it was
wild.

Josh (14:41):
on the same, they also had a Frisbee golf tournament that
day.
It was wild.

Travis (14:45):
On the same day, though, the military released in the
Roswell dispatch that thiswasn't a disc, this wasn't an
alien UFO, this was a weatherballoon, which, if I was the guy
who found it, marcel yeah, if Iwas Marcel I would be pissed.

Josh (15:02):
I mean, yeah, I would be mad too.
But that also calls intoquestion like we're talking
about memory, like is our memoryreally a fact or is it just
what we experience?
Because he'd taken this stuffhome and said he'd played with
it with his kid and his kid hadseen it, but that's the only
documentation of this incidenthappening yeah, because it got
scrubbed.

Travis (15:23):
It got cleaned up by the government, maybe that's what I
think.

Josh (15:26):
Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, I don't know.
That's where I'm looking at it.
I'm trying to be 2024 to 1947.
Yeah, almost 75 years ago, butthat being said let's just talk
a little bit about what's goingon in the world in 1947.
There was nothing world in 1947what this was.

(15:48):
There was nothing.
This was it.
No, there's not.
We.
We had just finished a secondworld war that ended in 1945, so
people were still reeling.
Not even all the soldiers havecome home.
We're still trying to figureout the deaths and who's missing
from world war ii.
Segregation is still a thing.
People are trying to figure outwhat our country is going to
look like over the next decade,50 years, 100 years or whatever.
So this is like America'scomeuppance, where we're trying

(16:11):
to prove everything to the worldand we're also now a superpower
, because we had just dropped abomb, a nuclear bomb, on
somebody.
So now we have nucleartechnology.
So the world is looking to us.
This is two years after thathad happened, three years.
1944 is when we dropped thebomb.
1945 is when the whole thingended and we started sending
people home.
Right, kind of Come at me,history buffs, you know.

(16:33):
Correct me if I'm wrong.
That's fine, I'll totallyaccept it.
It's history.
There's nothing to refute.

Travis (16:38):
There's probably still people out there.

Josh (16:46):
Well, that's another thing .
Other thing is like there were,uh, supposedly japanese people
that landed on an island andstill thought the war was being
fought, but not, not now.

Travis (16:51):
I mean, this was you know 20, but yeah, after 20, 30
years after, they still thoughtit was happening.
Yeah, they were in hiding, yeah, yeah and still pretty hostile.

Josh (16:59):
That's the rumor.
I don't.
Anyway, that's for a differentshow.
Yes, so that's where we're at.
It's 1947.
America has just barely, but bythe grace of technology,
defeated Nazism, fascism right,or has played a huge role in
contributing to the defeat ofNazism, fascism for well until

(17:22):
now, until our most recent time,when we're now dealing with it
again.

Travis (17:26):
It was also Legos started making plastic toys.

Josh (17:30):
Lego.

Travis (17:30):
And the Tonka trucks came out so big year, there we
go.

Josh (17:35):
Big year, big year.
Lego is now a thing and uh,tonka trucks cool, um, but
segregation was still in effect.
Women still couldn't vote.
Women's lib has hadn't happenedyet.
That all happens in the 60s, no, sorry.
Uh, women were able to vote in,like the.
I can't remember the amendmentthey've been able to vote, but
it's still a recent thing.

Travis (17:55):
It was.
It passed in Congress in 1919.

Josh (17:58):
1990.
So it's still pretty recentright that women can vote, which
is wild.

Travis (18:03):
They could vote, but socially they were oppressed.

Josh (18:05):
Oh yeah, definitely.
I mean, it was still requiredthat they work at home, and it
was the man's job to bring homethe bacon, as it were.
Right, so that's where we findourselves in 1947.
And people were reeling from aworld war and firing women
baseball players.

Travis (18:20):
And the boomers were being created.

Josh (18:22):
And boomers were being created.
Yeah, because people were soexcited they just wanted to go
home and fuck.
So they went home and theyfucked and they created boomers
the worst generation ever.
That's where we're at.
This is also like 1947.
So in 1953, I believe it was MKUltra started.
That's when they wereexperimenting with LSD and

(18:44):
psychotropics, trying to find amind control drug.

Travis (18:48):
Well, this is also just 40 years after the airplane was
invented.

Josh (18:52):
Which is wild?

Travis (18:53):
Yeah.

Josh (18:54):
So still early on?
Yeah, so still early on.
So, like I am a littleskeptical with personal accounts
of what happened at this timebecause it was such a wild time
and a lot of these accountsweren't given until years after,
the military who was in chargeof the 509th.

Travis (19:12):
He's a major, he's like a upper mid management, yeah,
and he knows his stuff.
He knows the difference betweena weather balloon, aluminum,

(19:33):
and something that isnon-existent in the
technological age that they werein in the 40s.
I mean, they really didn't haveanything.

Josh (19:36):
The cell phone was invented in 1947.
He also was in a.
Oh, that's wild.

Travis (19:41):
Yeah, but it wasn't sold to public till 1983.

Josh (19:44):
Okay.
So not to discredit this guy,but he's also.
He's a major in the army.
He's not a scientist.
There are things that he couldsee at that time that maybe he
just doesn't understand anddoesn't have access to, like he
could look at.
I don't know.
There are things about hisaccount that I am a little

(20:04):
skeptical of.

Travis (20:05):
So this is what the Roswell military reported.

Josh (20:09):
Their official.

Travis (20:09):
Their official.
It's a 231 page publicationclaiming that the debris was
part of Project Mogul, aclassified program involving
high altitude balloons designedto monitor Soviet nuclear tests.
The secrecy around this projectcontributed to the confusion
and speculation about everything.
People were torn.
It was very big news all overthe world, or all over the

(20:30):
United States, they had beentesting the weather balloons
attached to aircrafts withdummies inside over parts of
Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico.
So, according to the report,the conclusions of additional
research are Air Forceactivities which occurred over a
period of many years have beenconsolidated and are now
represented to have occurred intwo or three days in July 1947.

(20:52):
Aliens observed in the NewMexico desert were probably
anthropomorphic test dummiesthat were carried aloft by US
Air Force high-altitude balloonsfor scientific research.
That seems weird.
They just put anthropomorphicdummies.

Josh (21:06):
Well, they did that.
Yeah, they did that with whenthey were testing the nuclear
bomb.
They would put dummies insidehouses as like a facsimile of
people being in there.

Travis (21:16):
And they just put dummies in the Uh-huh.
They would put dummies in thesehouses.
They put dummies everywhere.

Josh (21:21):
I mean they did, for it's a good year for dummy.

Travis (21:23):
They did the dummy business.

Josh (21:25):
Yeah, it was a pretty good year for the dummy business.
But yeah, they would putdummies in these houses just to
represent people that were inthere right before they dropped
the bomb, because they had noidea what, what I was going to
do.

Travis (21:35):
Yeah, so the unusual military activities in new
mexico desert were high altituderesearch balloon launch and
recovery operations.
The reports of military unitsthat always seem to arrive
shortly after the crash of theflying saucer to retrieve the
saucer and crew were actuallyaccurate descriptions of air
force personnel engaged inanthropomorphic dummy recovery
operations.
So they're saying the men inblack that showed up were just

(21:59):
low level dummy retrievers.

Josh (22:02):
Who knows?
This is all again subject to aperson's testimony.

Travis (22:07):
Well, this is the government's testimony.

Josh (22:09):
Well, this is their report .
This is what they're putting ontop of whatever else anybody's
saying.

Travis (22:14):
Yeah, they're trying to change the narrative.
It seems like you guys aresaying it's this, we think it's
this this.
Well, we don't think that thisis actually what happened,
because, also at the time,because you were saying 1947,
we're now a superpower.
We just won a war.
People trust the government alot so they could say whatever
they want and they'd be believedsure, but they could also be

(22:36):
saying the truth and peoplewould believe them.
Yeah, they could.

Josh (22:41):
Yeah.

Travis (22:41):
I just I don't, I don't agree.
Okay, I think this is the realdeal.
Okay, Claims of bodies at theRoswell Army Airfield Hospital
were likely a combination of twoseparate incidences In 1956,
the KC-97 aircraft accident inwhich 11 Air Force members lost
their lives, and in 1959, amanned balloon mishap in which

(23:04):
two Air Force pilots wereinjured.
This report is based onthoroughly documented research
supported by official records,technical reports, film footage,
photographs and interviews withindividuals who were involved
in these events.

Josh (23:16):
There was film footage.

Travis (23:18):
That's what it says in the statement.
This was just like quick sparknotes of the 231 page.

Josh (23:24):
That's what I would like to see.
I would like to have seen whatMajor Marcel saw as he was
messing with this.
I would have hoped that theywould have sent a videographer
or somebody with a camera tofilm this and if that's the case
, that film footage unless itgot burned up, depending on what
kind of film they were usingthey're using like nitrate.

(23:46):
There's a lot of film back thenwas composed of.
Then it could have easilyburned up.
But that would also fit intothe narrative that everything is
lost.

Travis (23:56):
All you have is like my personal accounting of it yeah,
I mean film would always bereally good, yeah, but I mean
sadly we don't, you know, I meana lot of people back then
didn't have cameras no, but thegovernment had access to cameras
yeah and that's what I'm saying.

Josh (24:13):
It's like if this thing, the government would have had a
film of it happening so theycould document it and research
it for years past.
Because if nothing else, thegovernment is going to be, very
thorough, and that's the thing.
It's like release the buttholecat.
I want to see this film footage.

Travis (24:33):
Is that a cat's reference?

Josh (24:34):
It's a cat's reference.
That's good.

Travis (24:35):
Yeah, when making Cats the first release, they had the
cat's reference.
That was good.

Josh (24:37):
Yeah, when making cats the first release, they had the
cat's buttholes uh, yeah,somebody had digitally added
buttholes to it and the biggestfeedback was uh, those cats have
buttholes.
You guys know that the catshave buttholes.
It's kind of weird that they doso.
That was the overwhelmingfeedback they got from this test
screening and they're like,yeah, no, you're right, we
shouldn't have had buttholes onthese cats.

(24:59):
This is kind of offensive.
So they took it out.
But there is a cut out there ofthese cats with their buttholes
and I say release the buttholecat, just like I'm saying
release the cut of these guysfucking with this material that
they found out in the desert.
I just want to.
I want to see what that lookslike.
I want want to see if itbounces back.

Travis (25:17):
Yeah, and I don't think they will release it.
I think it's deep classified.

Josh (25:22):
I don't know.
I think that if it existed, Ithink that it would be released
now.

Travis (25:27):
Unless it's part of national security or it's gone.
I find it honorable and verypatriotic that you believe the
government.

Josh (25:36):
I don't believe the government, but the government
is going to document this kindof stuff versus a person who is
documenting a personal account.

Travis (25:44):
But this isn't the government, this is the military
.

Josh (25:46):
I'm not a government shill and I I just haven't seen.
Like I said, I'm a baby, so I'mapproaching this.
I'm skeptical of so many thingsin my regular life.
That's going to carry over intomy podcasting life.
It's just what a skeptical inmy personal life, yeah what are
you skeptical, like penis sizebeing what people think it's

(26:06):
required to be?

Travis (26:07):
I'm skeptical of that what's it required to be?
I don't know.

Josh (26:11):
I need to know like, uh like 10 inches.
That's sad yeah.

Travis (26:16):
Do you ever feel paranoid in your daily life?

Josh (26:20):
Uh, no, I, I no.
Um, I mean, sometimes after Iwatch a movie, like well, yeah,
like it follows, or somethinglike that, and you think
somebody's following you, sure,but that's just.
Uh, that's just the directordoing their job normal stuff and
just being like a human beingliving on this planet.
Like I'm more afraid of humanbeings.
I think aliens are terrifying,I will grant you that.

(26:43):
But I have a regular low levelanxiety about humans more than I
have a high level fear ofaliens, if that makes sense.

Travis (26:52):
Yeah.

Josh (26:53):
I think about aliens and my fear of aliens very rarely,
but when I think about it I'mlike God.
They're fucking terrifying.
We don't know anything aboutthem.
Their physiology is differentthan ours.
Their anatomy is going to bewild.
It is weird the way we evolvedhere to be on two legs versus
four legs or one leg or whatever, is wild and it's very specific

(27:15):
to our planet.
Things that happen here are allan evolutionarily thing
specific to Earth.
If you go to another planet,who knows what the criteria was
for evolution there?
Who knows what thecircumstances were that led to
whatever the highest being onthat planet is and what allowed
them to travel across the cosmosto see our dumb, primitive,

(27:36):
barbarian planet?

Travis (27:37):
What's weird is because we have documented tons of
planets around the universe thatare in safe zones, where it
shows what they call theGoldilocks zone.
Yes, the Goldilocks zone where.

Josh (27:51):
Everything's perfect.
Everything's perfect,everything's just right.

Travis (27:53):
But does that mean that they're at the same level or
further or less on the evolutionthan we are?
Are they going to look the samebecause they have the same
similar planets in the samezones, with the same?

Josh (28:05):
Exactly.

Travis (28:06):
So this makes me think that.

Josh (28:07):
That could be a planet that is occupied by things that
look like squid right, which islike a Stephen Hawking thing.
He thinks that if humans die,squid or octopus are going to be
the next dominant species.
It's wild, but they're verysmart.
They just need to live in water.
So it's like that's anotherevolutionary movement.

(28:30):
You know, like everything herestarted in water and then moved
to land.

Travis (28:35):
Or aliens were a big test and aliens brought us here
Right, and they're justobserving us, right.

Josh (28:42):
Not to get theological, but that's like that could be
what people refer to as God,like these aliens that brought
life here and try to figure itout Like we have no idea.
This is what keeps me awake atnight no idea why we're here,
what we're doing, doing here,what the fuck it is we're
supposed to do, and that's whymy biggest push right now is to
get ai to be uh, not service,and I don't want to say like

(29:07):
subservient to humans, but Iwould like very much for ai to
take on some of these roles thatwe're doing, like building work
roles, work like backbreakingwork, roles, things that we're
doing like building work roles,work like backbreaking work
roles, things that we canreplace more easily.
We can replace a robot's partmuch better and more easily than
we can replace a human's part,and I think that humans were
never meant to live this life oflike stress and toil.

(29:31):
I think that we should beexploring the arts and what it
actually means to be humans, andwe can have robots build houses
and deliver beer, you know, orsoda or whatever chips or
whatever it is, or, you know,run trucks from one end of the
country to another, or, have youknow, automated trucks run from
one country to the other, and Ithink people I don't know

(29:52):
You're talking about WALL-E.
I guess in a sense it's kind oflike wally, but I I don't really
appreciate that lazy aspect ofwally, that like, if we let ai
take over, that's what's goingto happen to humans, because I
don't think we would lose ourcreativity yeah, and I don't
think that would happen.
There are a lot of lazy people,but I don't think there's

(30:13):
enough to spoil the bunch right.
Like there are so many creativepeople out there, I mean, look
at, look at us.
We're here doing this.

Travis (30:18):
There's a natural urge and majority of people to create
.

Josh (30:23):
To create Like be storytellers.
We are naturally inclined tostorytelling.

Travis (30:28):
And are humans the only animals that have that urge?

Josh (30:31):
you think I don't know, but I mean elephants have a
memory.

Travis (30:34):
They have a memory they can create.
They can have a memory.
They have a memory they cancreate, they can.

Josh (30:38):
it's more taught than well .
So same with us, like all ofour behaviors are taught.
Yeah, there have been studieswith with apes they will watch
somebody solve a puzzle and theycan do it much faster because
they're just doing it like it'srote behavior, like, okay, if I
hit this, if I do that.
And then they test the samewith like three-year-old humans,

(30:58):
which they say is about thesame intelligence and humans
will make mistakes, but that'sbecause they're learning what it
is that's right and wrong.
It is, uh, us wanting to followwho's in charge and learning
from the behaviors that they'velearned that have kind of led to
our evolution, to being wherewe are now.

Travis (31:19):
Yeah, I tell my kids often.
I taught you how to use a spoon.
You listen to me?
Yeah, and it's true.
They didn't know how to use aspoon until I put it in their
hand.
Yeah, and they did they used itwrong?
Or a fork they probably?
Tried to comb their hair withit.
Yeah, it comb their hair withit.

Josh (31:39):
Yeah, it was a dinglehopper, dinglehopper.
Yeah, I almost said doodad.

Travis (31:40):
Same thing so this is your favorite part witness
statements yeah and deathbedconcessions okay, yeah, let's
get into it so major jessemarcel I don't know if I'm
saying that name correct- Idon't either.

Josh (31:53):
there was, uh, marcel, and then there was brazel spelled
b-R-A-Z-E-L.
I didn't think that theypronounced their name as the
country Brazil, so I said Brazil.

Travis (32:05):
Major Marcel brought some of the wreckage back home,
like you mentioned, and when hewas showing his son the thin
metal they discovered that theycould crumple it up and it would
bounce back into shape.
I think I said spring back itup and it would bounce back into
shape.
I think I said spring back.
But according to jesse, amarcel major marcel's son, major
jesse marcel senior and hisfamily were reassigned to
roswell army airfield, raf, newmexico, in the mid-1940s.

(32:29):
It was during the assignment injuly 1947 that an unidentified
flying object, a ufo, crashed ona local ranch outside RAF,
prompting the RAF base commanderto deploy Major Marcel to
investigate the wreckage, with afellow Army counterintelligence
agent First on the crash scene.
Major Marcel loaded some ofthis unknown wreckage into his

(32:52):
vehicle and drove it home toshow Jesse Jr in the middle of
the night.

Josh (32:56):
He became a PC candidate.

Travis (32:57):
I don't know what field of study, but so young, jesse
Marcel Jr, age 10, along withhis father, attempted to
identify the wreckage but couldnot make sense of the advanced,
state-of-the-art material theyhad handled.

Josh (33:09):
Yeah, that's what we were talking about earlier.
Is them not really having anunderstanding of what it is
they're looking at?
And they assumed later, whenpressed, it had to be not from
this world.
But I think that if they wereto have seen Tupperware or
plastic or something like that,they would have been equally
flummoxed.

Travis (33:28):
They made it sound as though it was aluminum foil on a
weather balloon.
Aluminum foil was so prominentin the household.
These guys have seen aluminumfoil a lot.
Well, not.
Well, let's look at whenaluminum foil was so prominent
in the household.

Josh (33:36):
These guys have seen aluminum foil a lot Well, not
well, let's look at whenaluminum foil was invented,
because 1903.
But that doesn't mean that itwas accessible to everybody.
Aluminum foil, tupperware, thatkind of thing was not for
everybody.
And then you forget that we hada Great Depression where nobody
could afford anything andaluminum foil was.
Just because it was inventedthen does not mean that it was

(33:57):
accessible to everybody.
It was just an invention andinvention.
Sometimes when they're lookingat practicality and what they're
going to use aluminum foil for,it is not ever immediately seen
what the practical uses are soaluminum foil was being used for
candy wrappers in 1913.

Travis (34:18):
Chewing gum lifesavers.
It was also used for otherpurposes, like identifying
racing pigeons with foil legbands.

Josh (34:27):
Yeah, sure, but it was still niche.

Travis (34:29):
Aluminum foil became a popular substitute for tin foil
in the following decades becauseit was cheaper, more durable
and more efficient.
During wartime, aluminum foilbecame the standard for food
packaging, and after world warii it completely replaced tin
foil.
In the late 1920s aluminum foilwas marketed for household use
and in 1938 the first heatsealable foil was developed okay

(34:50):
, so it's still like it'spractical use is brand new here,
right?

Josh (34:56):
They said after the war, this is right after the war
after the war it completelyreplaced tinfoil.
Right, but that's still.
It doesn't say a year likeafter the war could have been
fifties, sixties, but this guy'shad gum, so he's.

Travis (35:11):
he's crumpled his thing with gum and he's thrown it on
the ground.

Josh (35:15):
It doesn't reshape and he's thrown on the ground.
It doesn't reshape.
I'm not throwing it out, I'mjust saying like if we could
think about this critically wedon't really necessarily know
what he saw.
He could have said it bouncedback, but he could have just
been smoothing it back out,right?

Travis (35:31):
Yeah, possibly, I don't know.
No, you're right, it could havebeen.
We don't know.
No, you're right it could havebeen.

Josh (35:37):
We don't know.
I want to go back to what Isaid at the beginning of the
show.
Is he found this debris out inthe middle of the desert and it
was destroyed Like okay, solet's assume, let's ask the
bigger question here.
Let's assume that he did foundthis and everything lines up.
The material springs back.
What was it that destroyed thatship?

(35:58):
Material springs back.
What?
What was it that destroyed thatship?
What was it that caused it tojust be debris out in the middle
of his rant?
This ranch that this major wentout to investigate yeah, I
don't know.
There's been debris and did thisrancher throughout the year.
This rancher, save some of thismaterial, because I, if it were
me, that's exactly what I woulddo.
I would hold on to some of that.
I'd be like what the well, whatthe fuck is this shit?

Travis (36:17):
I mean there's been that kind of metal has been talked
about over and over and overagain, has been found multiple
times.
There's people in the UFOcommunity that have debris Like
there's, just I mean it is outthere.
It's not common, but it's morecommon than you would think.

Josh (36:35):
So then, what is it?
I know that there's probably awider worldwide community, but
this seems something so specificto the United States.

Travis (36:45):
No, it's not Well.

Josh (36:45):
to me it does Like the Roswell incident.
All these things that we'vebeen talking about so far are
very US centric.

Travis (36:53):
Yes, bob Lazar and Roswell are Right.
There have been incidents allaround the world and a lot of
governments actually documentthem and they are public
knowledge.
The US is one of the onlycountries that are hiding it.
Yeah, I mean, they have hugetask force, they have huge

(37:13):
agencies, all these othercountries, all these other
countries are saying they arereal, but a lot of this
information gets pushed aside orcensored.
And the United States is hidingall this stuff, most likely to
prevent panic, because theydon't think we're ready.

Josh (37:29):
The United States doesn't think we're ready, correct?
But all these other should beall these other governments are
like yes, our people are readyfor it.

Travis (37:37):
Yeah, If anything ready for it?
Yeah, If anything, I think itwould help.

Josh (37:40):
So are we Wally then?

Travis (37:43):
No no we're not.

Josh (37:44):
We're just not ready and we just want to sip our big
gulps and drive around in ourmotorized I mean it sounds great
Motorized chairs.

Travis (37:51):
It sounds great for like a week Not even a week I'd get.

Josh (37:55):
Well, that's why I don't really believe the WALL-E future
, because there's so many,there's a certain population
that would love that, that wouldjust love to drink big gulps
and drive around in a scooter,and I think that's also totally
fine.
That is your choice as a humanbeing.
Good for you, good for you,good for you.
I would love it, though, ifhumans didn't have to stress out

(38:22):
and worry about building ahouse or selling this or doing
that, and we just you just wantus to be provided for and then
that we can just.
We have enough money to.
There's enough money in theworld to provide for.

Travis (38:32):
I don't think that our world could accomplish that
unless we were able to bindtogether as humans of earth, and
I think the only way that willhappen is if aliens are able to
present themselves and we cancome together as human culture.

Josh (38:48):
Yeah and all of us are now the same I agree and I love
that idea.
I love that idea of likesomebody coming here and that's
kind of what is.
That would be exciting, that'slike what people would refer to
as like the second coming.
I'm not a religious person atall but you know, I grew up in a
church that believed the secondcoming was coming.

(39:09):
So maybe that's a little bitingrained and I just want that
to happen to like elevatehumanity to its most.
And I don't think Next level,and I don't think the next level
and I don't think we arecapable of hitting that next
level.
We are here toiling in the mudand the muck and we're fighting
with each other and it's gettingpretty, pretty bad here I, yes,

(39:31):
it is, and I think, from what Iremember, the second coming is
supposed to happen when thingsget really bad.
Yeah well, things are gettingreally bad they are.

Travis (39:40):
So our researcher, jordan, was telling me that
there's been a whole bunch ofuap sightings in again what's a
uap?
unidentified aerial phenomenongot it when trump was shot at.
They have really really goodcameras and they're going frame
by frame trying to track thesebullets, but they're seeing all

(40:01):
these other things in thebackground uaps and so they're
starting to realize.
They start going and looking atother footage from all these
other political videos, slowingthem down, going frame by frame
and they're seeing these thingsthat are just there for a frame
or two and they're not bulletsthis is wild.

Josh (40:17):
I'm not.
I'm not prepared mentally forthis bit of information so they
are actually watching.
Yeah, I think they areconstantly watching us, and when
things get bad enough, they'llbe like, okay, okay that's the
alien I believe in is thatthey're benevolent observers who
have stepped in when humanityhas needed them or has needed

(40:39):
something the most.
Yes, they've helped elevate andyou know, maybe, maybe that
will happen.

Travis (40:46):
I don't know if that's fringe or not, but yeah, I mean
one of the defense ministerssaid that they are here, we're
in contact with them.
They don't want us to know,they don't want the mass to know
because that would ruin whatthey have going on, but they
will not come into full contactwith us until we are ready and
we are peaceful.
So what followed became history.

(41:08):
The US Army Air Corps issued apress release on July 8th 1947,
that the flying saucer had beenrecovered.
This unprecedented news releasegenerated such a dramatic
response from the nation thatthe US Army Corps retracted the
statement and issued a pressrelease the following day that a
weather balloon had beenrecovered.
So Major Marcel Sr, along withall involved in the recovery,

(41:29):
were ordered to sign an NDAstatement and never speak of the
incident again until the 70s iswhen Marcel Sr came out and
Jesse Jr jr decided to speakpublicly to end what they
perceived as a military cover-upand a grave injustice to the
american people.
So, working with stantonfriedman, kevin randall, don
schmidt and steven bassett, drmarcel gave hundreds.

(41:54):
This is this junior gavehundreds of lectures, radio and
television interviews andpublished a 2007 book entitled
the Roswell Legacy, whichattested to what he and his
father had witnessed that nightat Roswell in July 1947.
Until their deaths, both JesseSr and Jesse Jr maintained what
they had witnessed and handledthat night and Roswell was not

(42:15):
of this earth.

Josh (42:16):
Okay, so following that one of this earth?
Okay, though, following that,one of the most significant
details to emerge from thediscussion was the fact that
Marcel firmly denied having seenalien corpses in the wreckage.
Had there been bodies of aliensin the debris, I would have
picked them up and brought themin.

Travis (42:30):
Corley quoted him as saying which is interesting
because Walter Hout was thepublic information officer at
Roswell Army Airfield who hadinitially issued the press
release announcing the recoveryof a flying disc On his deathbed
.
He provided a sealed affidavitin which he claimed to have seen
not only the debris but alsoalien bodies at a hangar in the

(42:52):
base.

Josh (42:53):
But these two people who were heavily involved and have
their own interpretation of whathappened and they're
contradicting each other.
That's the problem with this.
That's why I am such a skepticis because there's such
contradictory information, andso I'm going to side with and
unfortunate as it is, but I'mgoing to side with those that
have the most information or theones that are getting out ahead

(43:15):
of it, you know, as the casemay be, the us government, and
just see where, like all thisinfighting kind of lands I mean,
there's a, there's a, that'sthe.
The thing is so it's not likeone common message.
All these conspiracies thatcome up about aliens all seem to
contradict what, what thenarrative is, and so you have
like this infighting that'shappening on this low level

(43:37):
about what a scene and what analien looks like and what the
technology is.
But then the government issaying like no, it's a weather
balloon, and that is so simpleand concise and it makes it the
easier to understand well, I'mexcited for you to learn more
and see what happens with youropinion yeah, we'll see.
I mean, I still, like I said, Ithink our universe is too big to

(43:58):
not have other beings existingwithin our universe, or the
multiple universes that existwithin our galaxy, within the
ever-growing, whatever spacethat we call Cosmos.
There we go.
So I believe it.
I just I'm a skeptic of thecommunity, I'm a skeptic of the
narrative that's coming out,because they are so

(44:19):
contradictory.

Travis (44:21):
So the Ramey memo.
In a photograph taken ofGeneral Ramey and Major Marcel
posing with the weather balloonscraps, General Ramey is holding
a memo in his hand that UFOinvestigators have been trying
to read.
However, old copies of thephotograph proved difficult to
decipher.

Josh (44:40):
This looks like the weather balloon.

Travis (44:42):
This is when they got sent to their superiors and they
staged this picture for thecover-up.

Josh (44:48):
So they couldn't decipher it, but that is until-.
What you're not seeing is medoing air quotes over cover-up.

Travis (44:54):
In 1998, when J Bond Johnson, who had taken six of
the seven photographs in generalramey's office, decide to
investigate further, johnsonassembled a team to inspect the
photographs.
That included a space satelliteengineer.
Using a large blow-up of thephotograph, a computer and a
variety of software and cameraequipment.

(45:14):
Johnson's team reported to seemore of the message that Remy
held.
The interpretation of themessage was as the four hours
the victims of the something atFort Worth, texas, blank the
crash story for zero.
Nine eight four acknowledgesemergency powers are needed.

(45:34):
Site to Southwest of Magnellaand M.
So New Mexico safe.
Talk for meaning of storymission weather balloon sent on
the land Rover, signed temple.
So the accuracy of this memo isstill questionable.
But if it is accurate at all,it could prove that the weather

(45:54):
balloon story to be false in theair force's project mogul
explanation to be a cover-up.
So that sounded like gibberish.
But they were only able to pickout certain phrases and certain
words.
But those were the words andthe phrases that they were able
to do.
It's very interesting that hewas holding something, because
was that stage two or did hesneak in some kind of?

Josh (46:17):
top secret.
Do you think maybe he snuck insomething in that picture, this
famous picture?

Travis (46:22):
yeah, I can't imagine that they would allow that they
it?

Josh (46:26):
what it looks like is it's like coordinates.
Well, what it looks like to meis not like a weather balloon,
but like the thing you put oversomebody who is experiencing
hypothermia.

Travis (46:38):
Yeah, like a space blanket.

Josh (46:40):
Yes.

Travis (46:41):
And that's the thing is like.
He came out saying like no,that was a stage photo.
Yeah, I know fucking aluminumfoil, I know what a space
blanket looks like Sure, I'vechewed gum before.
Yeah, I ain't no dummy.
This is not the same stuff thatI saw and brought home and
messed around with in my kid,and the kid even explains that a
10 year old is going toremember something like that

(47:02):
right and I can see that being asoft touch with the government.

Josh (47:05):
They're like no, okay, like people understand what
aluminum foil is, that's goingto be our narrative.
This guy is like well, thatwasn't what I touched.

Travis (47:14):
That doesn't mean that it was necessarily not of this
world well, the other reasonthat the government or the
military would hide this kind ofinformation is because they
want the technology and theydon't want russia to have the
technology, because at the timethey were not yet.
We just finished world war iirussia was still a another

(47:35):
superpower and that's why that'sI mean, that's the excuse they
gave is that these were thingsspying on russia.
This was a weather balloon setto spy on russia right, but I
mean russia.

Josh (47:47):
The united states has always needed a bad guy, and so
I don't know.
I don't know what I'm trying tosay here I think the military
did hide it and I think they hidit because they wanted the
technology quite, quite possiblythey blamed on, they blamed it
on, you know, russia, spytechnology or or whatever,
because, like I said, americahas always needed an enemy yeah

(48:10):
we were really reluctant toenter into the conflict in
europe, like we didn't want todo that and we wouldn't have had
the Japanese not bombed us.
There was project paperclip thatgot renamed, where we were
bringing over Russian and Germanscientists to help devise the
nuclear bomb, and Einstein was aconsultant on this.
He came from Germany.

(48:30):
We brought him over here.

Travis (48:32):
We did a lot with a russian scientist too yeah, we
basically brain drained theworld and got the smartest
people we brain drained.

Josh (48:39):
The conflicted world?
Yes, definitely like the partof the world that was under so
much stress and pressure.

Travis (48:45):
Yep, we brought them here so the cultural influence
is flying saucers.
It's everywhere yeah I meanit's on.

Josh (48:53):
The Simpsons.
That means it's real.
Like you said, it's permeatedall of culture.
Everybody knows what a flyingsaucer is and what it looks like
.
If you say flying saucer, youdon't think Frisbee golf, you do
think a disc with maybe even alittle bubble over the top where
aliens are looking out.
All of the Simpsons, right?
Yeah.

Travis (49:17):
Like 50s, sci-fi played a huge role in this.
Was there conspiracy theoriesbefore Roswell?

Josh (49:20):
There are conspiracy theories.
I do not fully trust thegovernment, but in some cases it
does seem a little morereliable when we're looking at
personal testimony versus the USgovernment.

Travis (49:31):
Yeah.

Josh (49:32):
Until more comes out.
And a lot more has come out.
You know now that we're in 2024.

Travis (49:36):
Yeah.

Josh (49:36):
There's more acknowledgement of what was seen
recently, but nobody's reallydigging into the past of what
was seen, right?
Does that make sense?

Travis (49:46):
Yeah, I mean, it's 75 years ago.
Even Jordan, a researcher, washaving difficulty coming up with
this information, because onething would say something and
then something else would say noit was this person that brought
this this is all pre-internetyeah and so people back then
didn't have a platform to talkabout this kind of thing.

Josh (50:06):
And if this were assuming this is real, it is so much
easier for the government tosquash this a little bit of
testimony and bury it than it isfor one person to speak up
against the government.
Yeah right, because they don'thave a.
They don't have a platform likelike they would now like.
Whistleblowers now are becomingthe champions of our society.

(50:26):
They're the ones that areexposing the awful truths of
corporations and and governmentsand governments and yep exactly
roswell has a culturalphenomenon.

Travis (50:36):
I mean there's books, movies, continued ufo sightings.
People have dedicated theirentire lives.
I think if you go to roswellyou could walk around like an
alien, dress as an alien oh yeah.

Josh (50:46):
What did we see the couple years ago where they were
rushing roswell?

Travis (50:49):
was that that was area 51.
Well, whatever, yeah, and theydidn't rush it.
Some guy a couple people did.

Josh (50:55):
They did the naruto run where they were running.

Travis (50:58):
Yeah, they, that was.

Josh (50:59):
It was more than it was more of an embarrassment than
anything.
Yeah, no one got in trouble,right?

Travis (51:05):
they didn't actually rush it.
They did little staged rushings.
But the person started afacebook page and said on this
day, whatever.
And it went viral.

Josh (51:15):
Everyone showed up and well, everyone did show up.
I wasn't there.

Travis (51:19):
Well, were you?
Though you weren't there, I wasthere in spirit, but what
happened was before the area 51reached out to this guy saying,
like you actually can't do this.
This is a secure militaryfacility and even if they rush
it, there's like the first fencethat we see is 20 miles of
nothing, it's just desert, yeah.

(51:39):
And then there's another fencewith 10 miles of nothing.
So I mean, they have it.
You can't even see it.
Back in the day I've seenpictures from up on, like
mountains.
You can't even get that closenow.
You can't even take long, longdistant photos of this place
well, I mean fences have beennotoriously impossible to climb
they have.
But I mean you, you get a mileclose to it.

(52:02):
You're being talked to.
Sure, roswell has been epic.
I mean we talked about men inblack.
It got the the world, or it gotthe united states talking and
interested in researching.
And in the 70s and 80s therewas a surge of sci-fi movies uh,
dude, earlier than that, 50slike well, yeah people that made

(52:24):
a career off of like.

Josh (52:25):
That was the not the peak of sci-fi, but that was when
sci-fi was really introduced asa genre, was in the 50s.
Like we saw a lot of literature.
People were writing books aboutsci-fi.
I mean isaac asimov's beenwriting before that, and hg
wells even before that, and maryshelley, like being the
originator of all sci-fi writing, frankenstein, you know.

(52:47):
I mean people have been writingabout sci-fi for a long time.
But there was a huge culturalmovement around sci-fi in the
50s with, like these b alienmovies that went into the 70s
and then became like they wentmainstream eventually sure yep

(53:08):
et george lucas and spielbergbeing big sci-fi boys.
Yeah, sure, they push the genreforward Absolutely.

Travis (53:16):
And a lot of these.
Like ET, was all aboutgovernment cover-up trying to
take over a site and keepextraterrestrials hidden Not
hidden, but contained, contained.
But in the 90s Roswell became asymbol of UFO lore, with the
town embracing its alien legacy.
Roswell became a symbol of ufolore, with the town embracing

(53:36):
its alien legacy, theinternational ufo museum and
research center.

Josh (53:38):
local businesses decorate with alien themes and various
memorabilia kept I think, Ithink that should be a uh an
episode.
Is us going that would beawesome roswell or like area 51,
and recording from a gift shopthere?

Travis (53:52):
Yeah, I'd be totally down, okay, and Jordan was just
telling me about the big alienconference that just happened,
like it's like a huge epic thing, like everyone who's anyone is
there.

Josh (54:04):
I would love to go to that , but it would be hard not to.
Personally, it would be hardnot to just get really upset
with all the other tangentialconspiracies that always come up
with with aliens.

Travis (54:16):
I think it'd be fascinating, and Jordan would
come too.
She would love to be a part ofthat.

Josh (54:20):
Sure.

Travis (54:20):
But they have the aliens guy there, they have the guy
that was in charge of thePentagon's alien task force.
He's there, a couple of theguys actually, but yeah, in
conclusion, roswell.

Josh (54:36):
Are we gonna do closing thoughts on this.
Do you wanna?

Travis (54:38):
well, I was gonna say roswell as of.
Still today, as much as it waswhen it was happening, is still
a mystery.
I tend to not believe thegovernment in this situation
just because, like I said lastepisode, I don't think a
whistleblower.
There's no benefit for awhistleblower to come out.
They're not trying to get 15minutes of fame.

(55:00):
This is destroying their lifeand their livelihood.
They're being told they'repsycho.

Josh (55:04):
A lot of them lose their families.
So that's what Bob Lazar.
He lost a lot of cred, but hedoes have a lab where he's still
practicing.
It's not like they totallycrushed him and wiped him out of
existence.
He's still alive and well andis doing well, and maybe some of
the other than cripplinganxiety and fear of being who
doesn't have crippling anxiety.

Travis (55:25):
We're human beings I think it's a next level, though.

Josh (55:29):
The government's constantly monitoring you like
high secret government I meanwe're not even military I mean
again, like that's speculation,it could be fans dressed as
government officials.

Travis (55:42):
You just you think he got raided?

Josh (55:43):
by fans.
He got raided because he was ina prostitution ring.

Travis (55:47):
He was, uh, he got raided while they're recording
this, that movie that we watchedthe documentary yeah, they got
rated because they were lookingfor that, that metal, but
anyways, roswell that's what hesaid.

Josh (56:00):
What they had said was they were looking for things
that he had stolen from the labthey said that there was some
like and we don't know whatdocument errors from one of his
clients.
We also don't know what a raidis Like.
It could have just been twogovernment officials coming and
saying we have a search andseizure thing here.

(56:21):
You need to stand outside whilewe look through your house and
look for the stolen property.

Travis (56:25):
It was multiple different departments came Wow.

Josh (56:28):
Bob Lazar's testimony or somebody else's?

Travis (56:31):
It was Bob's.

Josh (56:32):
Show us the receipts.
If it was multiple agencies ofgovernment, they had to document
that they had to show him.
Show us the receipts, bob.
That's what that's all I haveto say.
That's that's what I'm going tosay.
That's going to be a theme forme.
Show me the receipts.

Travis (56:44):
I want to know the receipts I'm really excited that
if we go to this, thisconference, someday someone just
hands you all that stuff.

Josh (56:52):
I would love it.
That's what I want.
That is exactly what I want.

Travis (56:56):
Yeah, and maybe, if we have listeners, send it to us.
Send it to us.
Sure, that would make my lifeeasier.
I'm trying to convince this.
You know what?
I think he's wrong.
He thinks I'm wrong, and that'sokay.

Josh (57:10):
I don't think you're wrong , josh.
I, and that's okay.
I don't think you're wrong,josh.
I don't think you're wrong atall.
I think we believe in the samethings.

Travis (57:16):
I was trying to teach the listeners a lesson.

Josh (57:18):
Okay.

Travis (57:18):
Saying that it's okay to disagree and still be friends
Okay.

Josh (57:22):
No, you're right, You're 100% right.
Sorry I cut you off.
That is a very important lesson.
It is very important to be ableto disagree with your close
friends, and that I think that'sultimately what friendship is
about being able to disagree oncertain points and still be
friends.

Travis (57:40):
I agree.
So, in conclusion, roswellincident remains one of the most
famous UFO stories.
As Roger Lanius, former curatorof the space history at the
Smithsonian, puts it, ufos areexactly that they're
unidentified objects seen in theair, but that's not
extraterrestrials.
The fascination with theunknown, however, continues to

(58:00):
capture our collectiveimaginations and, like we said,
we want feedback.
If you want to correct us,please do so.
That would be phenomenal.
If you have any questions,we'll try to answer them.
Sure, maybe not correct or whatyou want, but my, my thought, my
conclusion is that this is acomplete cover-up.

(58:21):
I think they saw what they saw.
I think marcel senior was avery intelligent major in the
military and he was the firstresponder.
He got in trouble for jumpingthe gun.
The government had to quickly,the next day, extinguish all of
what he said and try to cover itup for reverse engineering

(58:45):
possibilities, so that theycould have a one-up in
technology in either thetechnology war or any, whatever
enemy they chose to have at thetime.
They wanted to have a one up onwhat was going on in the world,
and I think Travis is wrong.
So what was your closing?

Josh (59:02):
My closing thought is this is all very ambiguous.
This is all testimony based onspeculation and, in some cases,
gears difference from the actualincident happening.
Who knows if these people evenwrote this stuff down.
Did something happen, maybe?
But could it have just beenlike a test pilot or a craft

(59:22):
that was from the roswellroswell army air force base?
Sure, it could have been thattoo.
I just the fact that it wasfound by a farmer who waited
days before turning this in thisinformation in.
Then had somebody come out whoheld onto this supposedly for
days.
Just it speaks to me.

(59:44):
If, like it, I don't know, itdoesn't, it doesn't line up.
It speaks to me like you guysmaybe are seeing different
things than you actually saw, oryou're reporting on different
things than you actually saw.

Travis (59:56):
Right, I wish you were there so bad I wish I was there
too.

Josh (01:00:00):
It would have been great and maybe I would have gotten
swept under with the the wholeconspiracy.
But like the time that thisrancher saw it and was like,
yeah, you know fucking what isthis howie's comment, I don't
know, and he didn't do anythingabout it, it wasn't remarkable
enough for him to reportanything until he was just like,
oh, I got to get this shit offmy land.
It's this weird metal stuff.

(01:00:22):
I better call the sheriff andhe called a cop and the cop
called Roswell Army Air ForceBase and then brought somebody
in.
And then it's just allconjecture, like people
remembering things and notremembering things and reporting
things and then maybe notreporting things.
We'll never know.
I don't know.
It's it's all.
It's all.
That's the.
The thing about this communityis that it's all open to one

(01:00:45):
person's testimony and we'rebasing an entire philosophy on
one person's testimony.
Well, bob lazar has like almostan entire movement based on his
one testimony.
Nobody else at the time cameout.
I mean, he was like awhistleblower, but you would
have thought that if he had hadlike real good connections with
this community, that he wasworking within that somebody

(01:01:07):
else, one other person wouldhave said something as well.

Travis (01:01:10):
He didn't have good.
You know what?
I'm not even going to get in onthat.
Obviously we need more proof,so we're going to do more
episodes.

Josh (01:01:16):
Absolutely, this is fun.

Travis (01:01:20):
For our next episode.

Josh (01:01:21):
As is tradition, we're going to have a little quiz Just
to see where we're atknowledge-wise Yep.
And I'm going to totally beembarrassed.
I'm sure I'm going to doterribly Get 100% wrong again.

Travis (01:01:33):
The next episode we're going to record is about a mass
sighting, okay, and it's calledthe aerial school incident.

Josh (01:01:42):
Okay, very, very famous.
I've never heard of it.

Travis (01:01:45):
I have heard of it.
I don't know a lot about it.

Josh (01:01:48):
I don't know anything about it.

Travis (01:01:50):
So we have four questions.

Josh (01:01:52):
About the area school, the aerial, aerial school incident.

Travis (01:01:56):
So question one okay, I'll read it, we'll both answer,
because I don't I don't knowthe answers.

Josh (01:02:03):
Is a multiple choice?

Travis (01:02:04):
it is multiple choice, okay, so where do you want?

Josh (01:02:07):
to let me answer first, because you're going to be right
and I just might say no I'm notnecessarily going to be right.
These are pretty hard questionsokay, well, the last time I got
all of them you got all of themright.
I got all of them wrong yeah,and we took turns.

Travis (01:02:21):
Yeah, but this one I'm not gonna be right.
So, aerial school incident.
Where is the area?
Is it Rua, zimbabwe, louisiana,usa, georgetown, guyana or
Toronto, canada?

Josh (01:02:40):
Toronto, Canada.

Travis (01:02:41):
Okay, I think it's Zimbabwe.

Josh (01:02:44):
Okay, so we'll just remember that If it's formatted
the same way as their test lastweek, then you have to wait to
the end, but okay.
So I said Canada, you sayZimbabwe, so we'll remember that
Zimbabwe, so remember thatzimbabwe next question when did
the aerial school incident occur?

Travis (01:02:59):
jesus november 3rd 1964, april 7th 1972, september 16th
1994 or march 12th 1981 I'mgonna say 94.

Josh (01:03:13):
I have no idea.
That's my guess.

Travis (01:03:15):
I'm going to guess 81.
Okay, march 12th, yeah, so nextquestion who are the witnesses
to the event?

Josh (01:03:23):
God damn it.
I assume these are probablyfamous people within the
community and I'm going to looklike a total asshole.
But go ahead, josh 27 parentswaiting to pick up their
children wait, it's not people,it's just a group yes, this is a
mass sighting okay, waiting topick up their kids 12 school
facility members on lunch breakokay 62 children at recess so

(01:03:48):
we're establishing that it wasprobably an afternoon sighting.
Just just with these answers sofar.

Travis (01:03:53):
Three bus drivers at morning drop-off.

Josh (01:03:55):
Damn it, I should have just kept my mouth shut, okay.
So at least two, maybe three ofthose were afternoon sightings.
I'm going to do a little bit ofdeduction here.
One was a morning sighting.
It was bus drivers.
I never trust a bus driver, soI'm going to throw those guys
out.
I'm going to throw those guysout.
I'm going to say what was thefirst one 27 parents waiting to

(01:04:17):
pick up children.
So an afternoon thing, okay, andthe other one was kids at
recess, and then 62 kids atrecess or 12 school faculty
members on lunch break.
So this happened at a okay so.

Travis (01:04:31):
Happened at a school.

Josh (01:04:32):
This is the school is literal school.
It's not like a group of flyingsaucers that were going to say
school.

Travis (01:04:38):
It wasn't like a school of fish, right Got it.

Josh (01:04:40):
Okay, you know what?
Never trust a bus driver.
I'm going to say bus driver sawit.

Travis (01:04:47):
You say three bus drivers saw it in the morning.
Drop off, yeah, okay.

Josh (01:04:56):
I'm going to the morning drop off.

Travis (01:04:57):
Yeah, okay, I'm gonna say 62 children at recess, kids
though man notoriously terriblewitnesses.
We'll find out, sure, we'll see, we'll find out 62 kids at
recess.

Josh (01:05:02):
That sounds awful.
What was claimed?

Travis (01:05:05):
never trust them to have been seen.
Okay, a portal with shadowbeings, many orbs hovering
overhead, a strange monster inthe field, a UFO and tall aliens
.

Josh (01:05:18):
Orbs.
I'm going to say orbs.

Travis (01:05:20):
Okay, I'm going to say a UFO and tall aliens.

Josh (01:05:23):
Wow, ship and and aliens and beings.

Travis (01:05:27):
Yep, okay, so I'm going to submit this.
See where we're at, okay.

Josh (01:05:32):
You remember your answer?

Travis (01:05:33):
I remember my answers.

Josh (01:05:34):
Yeah, your computer will remember mine.

Travis (01:05:37):
So where's the aerial school located?
Yeah, you said Toronto, canada.

Josh (01:05:41):
Yeah.

Travis (01:05:42):
It was Zimbabwe.
God damn it.
That was my answer.

Josh (01:05:46):
Okay, so this is all tracking.

Travis (01:05:49):
When did the aerial school incident occur?
You were correct 94?

Josh (01:05:53):
It.
When did the aerial schoolincident occur?
You were correct 94.
94 september 16th 1994.
Wow, I wow.
This is like getting a superboring for me getting one of the
answers right who were thewitnesses to the event?

Travis (01:06:05):
you said the three bus drivers.
Yeah, the answer is 62 childrenat recess god damn it fuck I'm
pretty sure I've heard this, butnot one adult saw it.

Josh (01:06:14):
That's wild to me.

Travis (01:06:16):
What was claimed to have been seen.
Oh, it's going to be aliens ina ship.
You said many orbs hoveringoverhead.
Yeah, the answer was a UFO andtall aliens.

Josh (01:06:25):
Yeah, I knew it, because kids, man Kids, are always going
to blow things way out ofproportion.
Okay, can't wait to talk aboutthat.
I can't wait to talk about kids.

Travis (01:06:35):
Yeah, this is going to be a great one.

Josh (01:06:36):
You know how I feel about eyewitnesses.
You love eyewitnesses and thisis a math sighting.

Travis (01:06:40):
There's been some math.
There's been entire towns.
There's a town in Arizona wherethere was this huge sighting
and there's like 400 people thatsaw it, trusting the, the
testimony of children.
Kids will say, hey, these werechildren in the 90s.
These aren't this.
That was me.
I was a child in the 90s andI'm sure you were a stand-up

(01:07:01):
citizen.
I wasn't.

Josh (01:07:01):
I was a liar, then l kids are liars.

Travis (01:07:04):
Government humper is that a thing?

Josh (01:07:06):
yeah, yes, it is I don't know, sure, yeah, I mean, that's
what I named my pillow that Ihump every night, sure,
government?

Travis (01:07:16):
govgov.
Well cool.

Josh (01:07:18):
I'm excited for this next episode uh, yeah, I'm looking
forward to the, uh, thediscourse definitely yeah, and,
like I always say, stay curiousoh shit, you have a catchphrase
well, yeah, this is the firsttime I've actually said it god
damn it or, if you're travis,stay skeptical I guess my tight

(01:07:38):
ass, my, my catchphrase ishamburger hot dog but yeah, stay
curious out there oh god, okay,stay curious.
Thank you.