January 17, 2025 • 51 mins
In this episode, we’re trying to unravel everything we know (which isn't much) about Bob Lazar.
We're tackling his claims of working on alien spacecrafts, trying to figure out if he's a genius, a con artist, or just a dude with a very colorful past. Are we onto something groundbreaking? Unlikely. Are we having fun anyway? Absolutely.
So, strap in, keep an open mind, and join us for another episode of semi-educated speculation, wild theories, and just the right amount of skepticism.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:03):
Aliens Aliens, yes.
Travis (00:18):
All right, so welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no.
I travis, and I am josh, andthis is an otherworldly podcast,
as ambiguous as our title.
Now, just just for the listener.
I believe in aliens prettystrongly.
Uh, I think that they exist.
I think that our universe istoo big, uh, for them not to
(00:41):
exist.
I think that it's just a matterof like, I don't know evolution
and space and it.
Anyway, like I said, ouruniverse is huge, so for there
not to be aliens makes me feel alittle uncomfortable in my
brain.
Yeah, that being said, we'regonna talk today about a
documentary that we watchedcalled bob lazar, colon, area 51
(01:02):
and ufos, uf.
Is that what it's called?
Area 51, ufo and and?
such okay, I just wanted to getthe title.
Oh, it's area 51, ampersandflying saucers.
So, yeah, we're talking aboutthis documentary that I watched.
Josh sent it to me, so this isgoing to be the topic for our
(01:22):
show.
I watched it last night.
Did you rent it?
No, it's on tubi.
Oh, is it okay?
I bought it free with ads.
Yeah, I bought it, okay, manmoney bags.
Josh (01:34):
No, I just want to sound just like an owner like throwing
money around.
Travis (01:37):
So so where did you buy?
You buy through amazon, yesamazon like four bucks, or rent
it I think it was five.
Josh (01:43):
We bought it.
Renting was like $3.99 andbuying it was five.
Travis (01:47):
Okay, yeah, I didn't I just I found it on Tubi Tubi's
doing a lot of heavy lifting formedia consumption for me lately
.
That's free.
You should check it out, Ishould.
I've heard good things.
It has ads, though, so you Imean, if there's things that I
don't have to buy.
I don't mind ads.
(02:08):
Yeah, tubi has a lot of shit.
Okay, tubi, if you're listening.
Uh, sponsorship would be nice.
Yeah, tubi, I'll promote theshit out of you.
Josh (02:12):
Yeah, I already do well, there you go, there you go,
there we go, let's podcast we,uh, we introduced a documentary.
Travis (02:19):
Uh, bob lazar, colon, area 51, ampersand flying
saucers.
Right, that's good, that's allyeah, that's all we need.
Josh (02:26):
So bob is one of the more influential whistleblowers of
the alien and ufo community.
Travis (02:34):
This was a 2018 documentary.
Just oh, was it really first?
Yeah for those that areinterested in how current it is
so it was done in collaborationwith a guy named george knapp
this documentary.
He had an interview at the verybeginning of this right.
That was him in the pool.
They had terrible audio.
Josh (02:51):
Yeah, that was crazy yeah, that audio, it is like pool
room I don't.
Travis (02:57):
Maybe it was his pool room, maybe it was a hotel that
he just decided to meet in, butit wasn't, I mean it was what
you would expect a recording tosound like an echoey room with a
pool, it was.
It was a bad choice to decideto record that piece of his or
an artistic choice, becausethere was a lot of artistic
(03:18):
things wild artistic choicesmade in this correct?
Yeah, yeah, okay, so you were.
You're saying about bob lazar,before I interrupted you he was
one of the the originalwhistleblowers.
Uh, what 40, 30 years ago, uh1980, 89 is this like is 87 to
89 is when he called out area 51.
Josh (03:42):
So 1989 is when he had his interview.
Is that check?
Travis (03:46):
in with your notes.
Josh (03:47):
Yep, okay, so 1989,.
He had an interview with GeorgeKnapp.
We got to see this interview inthe documentary.
Travis (03:55):
Yep, where he's in a truck and you see him awkwardly
step out of the truck.
So they must have gotten likethe raw footage from that,
because I don't think they wouldhave aired that part of it.
No, he's in the truck and thenhe just kind of opens the truck
door and gets out and then youcould almost see him.
And if you, I'm not thatfamiliar with Bob Lazar, but
they dropped this in thisdocumentary about 10 minutes in.
(04:18):
Maybe they'd already talked toBob Lazar or had like interviews
of him talking, so you knewwhat his profile looked like,
what Bob Lazar or had likeinterviews of him talking, so
you knew what his profile lookedlike.
Josh (04:26):
So if you knew what Bob.
Travis (04:27):
Lazar looked and sounded and sound like he's got a very
distinct voice.
If you knew what he soundedlike, I mean you, you would, you
would know exactly who wasbeing hidden.
Yeah, yeah, it was very youwould hone right in on who that
was.
Josh (04:38):
It was almost comical.
It's like if, if you went anddid an interview about me, yeah,
Half your face was blackened.
Travis (04:46):
Or I did an interview about my dogs and my family
watched it and they were like,well, that's weird.
Josh (04:52):
Why is Travis doing this?
Travis (04:54):
Why is he in silhouette?
Josh (04:55):
Why is he trying to hide himself poorly?
Travis (04:58):
Yeah.
Josh (04:58):
It's strange, because the topic of the movie was
futuristic science and theycouldn't modulate his voice.
Because the topic of the moviewas futuristic science Well,
just taking, and they couldn'tmodulate his voice.
Travis (05:07):
Something that's been in the popular vernacular for a
long time.
Like people have always assumedArea 51's been around, I
thought Area 51 was like fromthe 60s, so like Men in Black 2,
where they go back to the 50sor whatever.
Yeah, or is that 3?
But anyway they go back to the50s and they're having first
(05:27):
contact with aliens and that'swhen that agency started.
I just assumed that lined upwith when our knowledge of
aliens in Area 51 started aswell.
I didn't realize that it was asrecent as 1989 that it became
part of like popular culture.
Josh (05:42):
Like people started being like what is this?
Travis (05:44):
Yeah, and I think the military even denied after he
said right and according to ournotes, um, it was officially
recognized in 2013.
Are you serious?
Josh (05:53):
Well, that's crazy, and and so Bob worked.
We found out that he worked ina like a sub area of area 51.
It was 12 or 14 miles out intoa hillside or into a
mountainside called S4.
It was near the Nellis AirForce Base, which is what we
know as Area 51.
Travis (06:12):
And he claimed the site consisted of concealed aircraft
hangars built into themountainside and that his job
was to help with reverseengineering nine flying saucers,
which he alleged wereextraterrestrial in origin yeah,
he said that the technology wedid not have the technology to
build a craft like this and hepoints out this thing that's
(06:33):
referred to as element 115,which is called unup ununpentium
I think which is very similarto like unobtainium, which which
is James Cameron's element inAvatar.
So maybe James Cameron's got afinger in this pie, I don't know
.
Probably Then it wasscientifically recognized as
microbium and he said that thiselement that was on the sphere
(06:55):
in this documentary repulsedhuman flesh, and I don't mean
like repulse, like made you sick, like it was like a Like it was
an ugly element.
Josh (07:03):
Yeah, it was an ugly element.
Yeah, it was like ugly.
Travis (07:06):
Well, yeah, ununpentium, or whatever it's called.
It's kind of a it's a mouthfulto say, but he said when he was
reaching towards this orb, itpushed his hands back like a
force field, and so he wasabsolutely fascinated by this
and the way he got so, just likeas part of this documentary we
watched.
He had talked about hisinterview with the physicist
(07:27):
that was hiring as headphysicist for Area 51, or
whatever he said.
He built a reactor.
Josh (07:33):
A hydrogen collider.
Travis (07:34):
Yeah, yeah, particle, particle accelerator that he had
in his room.
Josh (07:39):
Yeah, when he was a kid.
Travis (07:41):
Well like a teenager probably college.
He said he had one in his roomat the time, so and we're taking
his word for it.
Josh (07:47):
That's true.
So yeah, he claims he worked onreverse engineering, alien
technology, the discovery ofelement 115.
115.
It was the fuel for thespacecrafts and the existence of
extraterrestrial spacecraftsMm-hmm.
That's his claims.
Terrestrial spacecrafts.
That's his claims and you canread more.
(08:08):
He has a testimony on hiswebsite, Bob Lazarcom.
Travis (08:09):
Humble plug.
Yeah, what are we, bob Lazarshills?
Are we shilling for?
Josh (08:12):
Bob Lazar.
So he came onto this, this newsstation in Nevada, with George
Knapp, yeah, and I was veryconfused, like I thought.
You know he was a whistleblowerbecause he wanted the world to
have the greater knowledge.
I don't know, I just.
But he did it because he wantedto protect himself.
He says they can't kill me ifI'm out and about with this
(08:34):
information.
Travis (08:35):
Okay, that's, that's wild.
I mean, they could, they could.
Josh (08:39):
Yeah, I mean, look at the the Boeing whistleblowers two of
them died.
Yeah, I mean, look at theBoeing whistleblowers Two of
them died.
Listening to him, he regrets it.
Sometimes he kind of wishesthat he didn't come out.
Travis (08:49):
Well, that's yeah, that's the not the problem but
that's a thing thatwhistleblowers all have to take
into consideration is coming outfrom the shadows, no matter
what it is, whether it's, youknow, boeing or a government
agency, there are consequencesfor that.
Like, you're not just going tosay this is happening, we need
to draw attention to it andthink you're not going to have
(09:12):
any consequences for that.
So that is the fear that allwhistleblowers have.
If he was a true whistleblower,then that was a brave thing to
do.
That's it's a hard thing.
Josh (09:20):
Absolutely.
And I also listened to the JoeRogan interview and he was
really surprised that no oneelse that he worked with came
out.
Yeah, and it actually probablycemented.
Well, do you think that'sbecause there's no like.
Travis (09:34):
Do you think it was made up?
Do you think you made all thisstuff up?
Josh (09:37):
I don't think so and just has like a working knowledge of
chemistry.
It's possible but there's justtoo many things that he talked
about that were denied thateventually.
I mean just like element 115,they all denied it, denied it,
denied it, and now it's on theperiodic table, yeah, which is
crazy.
So, after he came out, did thislong thing, just bluntly, just
(10:00):
first sentence.
He didn't ease into thiswhistleblow.
Yeah, he's just.
I saw alien aircrafts.
Right, okay, I have beenreverse engineering.
Travis (10:11):
There's even part of his testimony where he's like.
I was walking down a hall and Isaw two regularly sized human
beings talking to a very shortcreature with very long arms.
Josh (10:24):
He mentioned that in the movie yeah.
Did he later in the movie sayno, I don't think that that was
an actual alien.
Travis (10:31):
No, he didn't say.
Later he did say that he sawthe inside of the craft and that
the seats were very small andhe's like imagine we were
designing a ship for children.
That's what this would looklike.
Josh (10:42):
Okay, so I think it was the Joe Rogan.
He's like no, I don't think Iactually saw an alien.
I think it was two scientistswith a dummy sitting there in
the seat, like they put togethera dummy to see what the size
would be for the chair.
Travis (10:55):
Okay, cause his his testimony in this documentary
was and I I might be wrong, butthey were standing in a hallway
talking down to an alien or anextraterrestrial being.
Josh (11:08):
Yeah, he was walking down the hallway and there was a 18
by 18 window into the room andhe just looked in and I think he
got in trouble for looking intoo.
Travis (11:18):
Yeah, no, looky-loos, yep, that's their policy.
They have that written on thewalls at Area 5.
Josh (11:22):
No, looky-loos no looky-loos.
Travis (11:24):
If you got time to look, you got time to cook up some
more Element 115,.
Get back to work.
Josh (11:29):
Yeah.
Travis (11:32):
It's just a big meth lab for Element 115.
Well, I mean not meth but yeah,so Bob is a Bob Laser.
Josh (11:39):
He is a propulsions expert .
Travis (11:40):
So that's why he was hired to make that joke.
Josh (11:42):
Oh, yeah, absolutely cool.
Uh, he was a propulsions expertwho was featured in the news
for a jet car that he used todrive to work.
Later, which we'll get intothis next segment is how his
whistleblowing was not receivedwell, so the immediate reaction
from the scientific community inthe media was insane.
(12:04):
Everyone just shunned him.
There was a ton of efforts todiscredit him and we think that
I mean it looks as though thegovernment responded by just
trying to scrub his existence.
It didn't seem like theyfocused very much on that, they
just kind of dabbled in it alittle bit on the movie.
I mean it was crazy.
Yes, it was crazy.
Focused very much on that, theyjust kind of dabbled in it a
little bit on the movie.
(12:25):
I mean it was crazy yes, it wascrazy it would drive me crazy if
something like that happened,if I said something and all of a
sudden they right we, I mean,we talked about this.
Travis (12:35):
We talked about, like, the risks of whistleblowing.
Josh (12:37):
That's, uh, it's, it's a real threat, no matter where
you're, where you're employedbut to have the resources of
someone trying to sabotage whatyou're saying, which I mean they
go really far, they do a lot ofcrazy things character
assassination, stuff in here,you know, in our old dossier.
Travis (12:54):
Thank you, jordan, for putting this together for us, by
the way yeah, our researcher isuh is the best good.
You have a personal connectionwith our researcher.
Josh (13:02):
Yep, she's my wife and she does everything 110%, and she's
very passionate about thesetopics.
Travis (13:14):
So are we talking about his criminal activity?
Josh (13:17):
So a year later he was arrested for aiding and abetting
a prostitute ring.
Travis (13:22):
Yeah, so 1990.
Josh (13:23):
This was reduced to felony pandering.
I don't know what that means.
I don't either, so he pledguilty.
Travis (13:30):
Yeah, he pled guilty to it.
Josh (13:31):
And was ordered to do 150 hours of community service.
Yeah, that is a weirdtransition going from reverse
engineering alien tech topandering prostitutes.
Travis (13:42):
I don't know.
It's like he's a human man.
I'm not going to like kink,shame anybody.
I'm not shaming Everybody hastheir vices and he pled guilty
to the reduced charges.
I mean good for him.
So I think this just plays intolike them trying to discredit
anything that he said or issaying.
They're like well, this guy'sinto smut and objectifying women
(14:05):
, so can you really trust himwhen it comes to chemistry and
these things that he's claiming?
So this is part of thecharacter assassination that
took place.
Josh (14:14):
But are they saying so aiding and abetting?
Does that mean he hired aprostitute or was he a pimp?
Travis (14:19):
I don't.
That's a good question.
I guess more on that later,maybe a good question.
I guess they were more on thatlater maybe, maybe, hopefully,
yeah, further research uh is dueto this topic if we ever have,
like a patreon or bonus paidepisodes, we'll we'll just talk
about what his sexualproclivities were like pimp
lazar.
Josh (14:36):
An episode of the the dark underbelly side of bob lazar
and his pimp days and scienceyeah, yeah, so there was that
side of Bob.
Lazar and his pimp days andscience.
Yeah, yeah, so there was that.
In 2006, he and his wife, joyWhite, were charged with
violating the Federal HazardousSubstance Act for shipping
restricted chemicals acrossstate lines.
The charges were stemmed from araid in 2003 on United
(15:08):
Nuclear's business offices,where the chemical sales records
were examined.
So that is where he now works,it seems, because that was shown
in the movie.
Travis (15:11):
Okay, it's shown him working there at united nuclear
yeah, with different metals andthen in 2017 I was hold on, I
was under the impression that hewas working in his own like
independent research facility Ithink he, because it seemed like
that place seems like it washim, and then one other guy who
loved working there, like it didseem like weirdly loved, he
(15:32):
just would.
That's all you're talking about.
I love working here.
You don't get to come and messwith this kind of stuff anywhere
else.
And yeah, it's a it's apleasure to work here.
A lot of the info I felt likewas leading up to the 115, and
it spent a lot of time on that.
There wasn't a whole lot onwhat I was.
Well, not just that, it's BobLazar colon, area 51 and Flying
(15:54):
Saucers, and I didn't feel likethere was enough in there about
the two subtitles of that theArea 51 and Flying Saucers.
Subtitles of that the Area 51and Flying Saucers.
It was kind of covering, likeBob Lazar's work history and not
even covering the controversyCause I don't at least I don't
remember there being acontroversy in that documentary.
I'm just now reading about itin the dossier that was put
(16:17):
together.
Josh (16:18):
Yeah, so that's what was interesting.
So you going into watching thismovie, you're like I don't know
who balbazar is.
Travis (16:24):
yeah, watching this I thought it was the ancient
aliens guy you still don't.
Josh (16:28):
I mean, you do a little bit more but come at me, alien
bros do it but you don't really.
The documentary didn't informyou of who balbazar was other
than a whistleblower one, whichI mean they don't, they don't
even.
Travis (16:41):
I don't think they even say that in the documentary that
he was a whistleblower.
That was just something thatpopped into my head.
I was like, oh, he's the guythat introduced us to Area 51.
Okay, that's who.
Bob Lazar is All right.
So then things started to fallinto place after that knowledge
hit.
My problem with this is I havenot ever seen a movie with Bob
(17:02):
Lazar in it, and like my alienreferences mostly are going to
be centered around movies.
So like that is my introductionto aliens, you know, thanks to
Steven Spielberg, like seeing ETwhen I was a wee lad so Lazar
kind of looks like Stephen Kinguh, he does look like Stephen
King very much.
He's got those big round glassesthat have like I mean not
(17:23):
currently, but back when BobLazar was Bob Lazar, he had like
these glasses that had likethat cross beam on it and, like
any engineer you knew from the80s or 90s, they were wearing
these exact glasses.
Josh (17:36):
And I think that.
Travis (17:37):
They're cool glasses.
I wear glasses and I waslooking at getting a pair of
these just because I thoughtthey were like very cool retro
glasses, yeah, but putting themon my face just makes me look
like a creepy pedo.
I can see that well, that's whyI'm not wearing them.
I don't want people to see that.
Josh (17:56):
I don't want people especially when you went through
your, especially when you wentthrough your mustache stage.
Oh, that was the worst.
Travis (18:01):
Yeah, yeah, that was the worst.
I looked like the lorax he didum, I speak for the trees.
Josh (18:09):
I don't think we need any more proof that he was an
engineer other than the glassesyeah, no, that's, that's cred,
right there that is, that's labcred.
Yeah, I was gonna say streetcred, but he's far from it.
Yeah, he's far from the streets.
Other than him driving A rocketship, a rocket ship to work, and
he actually made the news andlater, when people were trying
(18:30):
to discredit him, the place thathe would drive to work and was
in the local newspaper about it.
Yeah, they said he never workedthere and then they went to
look at his colleges.
They said he never went tocollege.
Travis (18:45):
He didn't have a record of ever being at mit.
He was enrolled in anotherschool but it was like 2500
miles away.
The guy george knapp, didreveal that he was in the
directory for area 51.
No, maybe it wasn't area 51,but he was in a directory.
That if he wasn't employedalamos if he wasn't employed
there, why would his name be inthe directory?
(19:05):
But again, are we looking atpaper records in a paper phone
book?
That could be faked.
Josh (19:12):
Yeah, he found his name, along with some of the other
scientific technicians, in aphone book.
Yeah, phone book, which I wishphone books were still a thing,
like company phone books orchurch phone books or school
phone books, do you remember?
The school phone books.
Travis (19:27):
When I got my first cell phone as a very young lad, I
remember putting a tiny versionof the phone book because they
would send these giant ass phonebooks that had everything in it
and then you would get asmaller version of like
businesses and then someresidential stuff, and I
remember putting that in my carand thinking this is the coolest
.
This is like peak adulthood.
Josh (19:47):
Yeah, I have an index of every business.
Travis (19:51):
Yeah Well, if somebody was riding around with me I'd
say like oh yeah, if you need tolook up Pizza Hut, there's a
phone book under my passengerseat.
Go ahead.
Josh (19:59):
I would find funny people like funny names in the white
pages and just call them and belike, hi, is this john hamburger
?
And then he's like, yeah, and Iwas like.
Travis (20:11):
And then I would just hang up so this is part of the
no aliens portion of the podcastI mean it lines up because
there was a company phone bookyeah, and he was in it and they
and they are.
Josh (20:23):
Yeah, and they said he wasn't in it.
Yeah, and then he was alsonamed one of the technicians or
scientists at Los Alamos in thenewspaper because he drove his
rocket car to work every day.
That would go 200 miles an hour.
Travis (20:39):
God, I hope not.
That's really fast.
Where's his rocket car now?
I don't know.
Is there pictures of himdriving his rocket car?
Josh (20:47):
Yeah.
Travis (20:49):
Okay, I see it.
It looks like a DeLorean.
Imagine what you think a rocketcar would look like, and that's
practically it.
It looks like Marty McFly'sDeLorean from Back to the Future
, Except it doesn't have thewhat are those doors called that
go up?
Josh (21:10):
I don't know what those are called Wing doors.
Yeah, so it was.
1982 is when this picture in thenewspaper came out, and it's a
picture a man with a car, withKnapp, george Knapp, the
journalist, saying that itprofiles Lazar and his interest
in jet cars, and it zooms in onthe clip and it says it's not
the car.
So much that's important toLazar, a physicist at Los Alamos
(21:32):
Mason physics facility.
The important thing is the jetengine.
It's something he's beenworking on for years.
It started a while ago whenworking with another researcher
in NASA on the technology.
Okay, so that's what thearticle said.
Travis (21:47):
Yeah, look at that, that same with his rocket car.
Josh (21:50):
And he was on a rocket.
Travis (21:51):
It has like an engine on the in the back.
It's a hatchback, so the backis open and then this engine is
sitting in the back of his car.
It's like the most ridiculousthing.
But there he is, standing onthe hood, at the hood of his car
, looking like a cool guy.
This is a poster called alivein the darkness the story of bob
lazar.
(22:12):
I want that poster.
It's pretty cool.
He does look like Stephen King.
You're right.
Yeah, yeah, there's an article.
This is a real hot rod.
Bob Lazar isn't kidding when hesays his car runs on a jet
engine.
The physicist at Los AlamosNational Laboratory modified his
compact car for a jet enginethat can propel it up to 200
miles per hour.
So this was an article in.
(22:33):
It doesn't say it's just anewspaper clip.
Josh (22:36):
It looks like, because of our wonderful researcher, it was
Los Alamos Monitor article, soit was in 1982.
It was the date reading SundayJune.
It says 2X on here, but I thinkit's June 2nd or June 20
something.
Travis (22:53):
Oh, too.
Josh (22:53):
Redacted oh, but that's the thing is like they were
saying he didn't work there.
They're saying he didn't go toall these colleges.
Why would he have these jobs ifhe didn't go to college?
Have you seen?
Travis (23:06):
the movie.
Catch me if you can.
Yeah, that basically covers howyou can get away with it.
Yeah, where leo is just likevery good at manufacturing
documents and back then I mean,internet wasn't what it was.
We didn't have it as like aresource or a database.
And I'm not calling intoquestion Bob Lazar's credentials
or anything like that.
I'm just saying that it is veryreasonable to suspect that he
(23:27):
could have made this up backthen.
It is well within reason Tosuspect that he could have made
this up back then.
It is well within reason.
It was so much easier to getaway with this sort of like
fraud then because of the lackof internet and internet
accessibility, Like the processfor checking any sort of
resource that you notrecommendation.
What is it?
(23:47):
Where do you references?
When you were calling to checkon references, it was just that
it was a phone call.
You would make a phone call oryou could send and most people
didn't even call yeah, they justassumed you were.
Josh (23:59):
You know at your word like the woman that was doing sign
language for the white house inthat press conference.
Travis (24:05):
Yeah, because nobody there spoke sign language like
they had no idea.
Josh (24:09):
They're just like okay, she was there on live television
yeah she's nailing it and shewas just making hand signals.
That meant nothing.
Yeah, she just lied.
Yeah, and she lied and she gotaway with it.
I don't know how she got thatposition.
Maybe it was like on her resumeand she just lied about it.
Travis (24:24):
And they're like oh, our translator, or she had
mentioned like to her boss.
Maybe she worked at that agency, a government agency, and
mentioned to her boss that sheknows asl american sign language
and he was like, well, we need.
I assume it was a he, becauseit's government and because it's
a patriarchy.
Smash the patriarchy.
Just be nice to me because I'mon your side, I'm an ally, um,
and I think what had happened isshe had said she knows asl.
(24:48):
And the guy was like well, wehave a press conference coming
up, we need somebody tocommunicate this broad spectrum.
If you could be our ASL liaison, perfect.
Josh (24:59):
And she looked so nervous while she was doing it.
Travis (25:01):
Yeah, and then she did it and then it was just like it
was like she got caught.
It looked like she was castinga spell.
Yeah, I mean, if you don't knowASL and you don't.
Josh (25:09):
I wouldn't know what to do .
Travis (25:10):
You don't recognize that that's a language People are
speaking.
It does look like a wizardcasting a spell.
Take that out if it's offensive.
Josh (25:20):
I don't think it is Okay, because ASL doesn't look like
you're casting a spell, but shedid.
Travis (25:25):
She looked like she was casting a spell, but I'm saying
say you came to this planet andyou were watching somebody wave
their hands about, like that youhad an idea.
That's also okay.
So we also have to assume theyhave a working knowledge of
magic and what a wizard is right.
So these aliens come to thisplanet and the only thing
they're missing is knowing thatasl is a language.
So they look at that andthey're like oh shit, they have
(25:45):
magic.
Josh (25:45):
We have magic too or they spent a lot of time wondering
what it was, and then they.
Their only conclusion was itwas magic.
Travis (25:52):
Yeah, it was magic, anyway.
So yeah, she got fired formagic.
Josh (25:56):
It seems as though we derailed a little bit.
Travis (25:59):
But that's why that's, that's the fun of this.
So taking these little birdwalks it's.
Josh (26:04):
It's healthy to have a suspicion, not a suspicion.
Travis (26:08):
I'm a skeptic, you're a skeptic, I believe in aliens.
I just don't trust thecommunity.
I think the community is prettytoxic and very paranoid.
I'm not like a littlegovernment boy who believes
everything that the governmentsays, but I do have a certain
level of trust in what we'rehearing from the government.
And call me a whatever, atrusting rube, I don't care.
(26:30):
Well, this is about what we'renot hearing from the government.
Well, no, I mean, what we'retalking, we're addressing, is
the things that we know andthings that have been redacted.
That's what we're talking about.
And then the alien community asa whole.
Josh (26:38):
I don't know if you guys have a name.
That's a name.
That's a big stamp statement.
Travis (26:42):
Yeah, Is it a?
Do they have a name or theylike?
Do they call themselves alienbros, UFO?
Josh (26:57):
Just ufologists, okay, well, uh, yeah, it is a big
stamp statement saying that theentire community is crazy
conspiracists.
Travis (27:00):
I didn't say the entire community, I'm saying the
involvement, little as it is,with that community has been one
of paranoia honestly, there arekooky crazy people out there.
Josh (27:11):
Let's say, I saw bigfoot yeah, and well, that that's.
Travis (27:14):
The other thing is all of these conspiracy theorists.
They all get lumped into onebig pot.
And so if you believe inBigfoot Yeti, then you also
believe in Wendigo, you alsobelieve in skid walkers, you
also believe in aliens andleprechauns, extraterrestrials.
No, nobody believes inleprechauns Not anymore.
But they're all just paintedwith a big, broad brush.
(27:34):
And I'm sorry if I offended youguys by saying you're all
paranoid freaks, but that's myimpression with you you paranoid
freaks.
Josh (27:40):
That's the thing is there's a lot of people that are
not that as well.
Yeah, I mean, some of thesepeople are high officials,
ministers of defense.
I mean these are credible,credible people, and it took
even more courage for them tocome out because the government,
it has seemed as though they'rediscrediting anyone that talks
about it.
I mean anyone in the military.
(28:01):
If they talk about it, they'dbe relieved of their duty, this,
all these things, becausethey'd call them crazy.
Travis (28:06):
What I would say to that is cite your sources.
Like I want to know who thesegovernment officials are and why
they're fired.
Like I don't know anythingabout we'll get the ministry of
defense, ministry of the magicalarts, or whatever department
they work in or agency they workfor.
Josh (28:23):
Well, we'll get there, you'll learn this stuff and
we'll learn it together.
I don't know any of the namesright now, but I just know they
exist.
I've seen clips, I've seenfootage, I've listened to
podcasts about some of thesepeople.
Yeah, and I think they're justupset with the community when
there's people that are like thealiens.
They contact me every night andthey take me up and they put
things in me.
(28:43):
You know, like, yeah, you go toan alien convention.
A lot of the people there, moreso, fantasize about the idea of
aliens, or I don't know how.
They Sure they may believe it,or they could just be straight
lying, I don't know, but I dobelieve that a lot of these
people or it could have been anexperience they had.
Travis (28:59):
And then, because we are as human beings, we are
storytellers.
That's in our DNA and we liketo tell a good story.
And sometimes, if you tell astory long enough, adding to it,
as it were there's a lot ofbooks that we consider sacred
right now that, I would say,fall under the same definition.
(29:19):
As you're writing things overyears and you add things to it,
you start to really believe thatstory and it becomes.
It's not fiction for youanymore.
Now it is fact, this is part ofyour person.
Josh (29:33):
Like if say, you're not remembering the moment, you're
remembering your memory you'reremembering your, yeah, your,
the memory you created foryourself.
And if you remember it multipletimes, the memory is going to
change.
Travis (29:45):
And also, if you're telling somebody a story and
this is 100% true of me I lookat who I'm talking to and I
gauge my story based on theirreaction, so it can get a little
more outrageous based on whoI'm talking to and the reaction
I'm getting.
Josh (29:59):
Like when you said that there was five cops at your
house, but there was actuallyfour.
Travis (30:03):
There was only four.
I got raided today.
Yep, so very thematic.
I got raided today by thepolice.
Josh (30:08):
You said five and I had a blank expression and then you
said, actually, actually Ibetter pull back on this.
Five cops that ever show up.
It was four, yeah, and then Ihad a reaction oh, yeah, and
then I dove right into the story.
Travis (30:21):
But yeah, uh, long story short.
Thematically, I got rated todaybecause the cops knew that I
was going to be recording thispodcast that's not true.
He saw someone pouring oil on avehicle believe who you will.
Yeah, uh, no, but I did.
I.
I had a very weird experiencetoday as I was mowing my lawn.
Uh, there was a truck parked infront of our house.
(30:42):
A character, a white male,walked up, checked the doors on
the truck.
I finished mowing my lawn.
He came back and was holding athree gallon jug of oil.
He checked the the lock again,he dumped the oil on the
windshield and hood of the carand threw a lit cigarette on it
and then took off running downthe road.
(31:03):
You would think you would thinkmy first reaction would be to
call the police, but it was tosend my wife a message like, hey
, something really weirdhappened.
I could you please call me.
And she said she was gettinginto a meeting and so I had to
explain to her in text what Isaw and she's like yeah, you
should definitely call the cops.
So yeah, I had four cops showup in my house, crawling all
(31:24):
over this truck and askingquestions, and they agreed that
it was bizarro it is it's.
It was a weird thing.
It was a weird thing thathappened to me today before
recording this show.
I didn't get rated because Iwas recording a podcast about
aliens, or did.
Josh (31:37):
I or maybe.
So back to Bob Lazar.
Back to Bob.
They're trying to disqualify.
It seems as though thatanything and everything that
they were just trying to scrubhim from existence.
Even now, it's hard to findmuch information on him.
You go to his Wikipedia.
It's a very small Wikipediapage.
(31:57):
There's been over 500 editssince 2019.
And we went through the historyof the edits to see what was
there before and they had tonsof information on him.
All of that is gone and allthat remains are seething
entries Like angry.
That is gone and all thatremains are seething entries
(32:19):
like angry.
Lazar has no evidence of alienlife or technology, and his
claimed education and employmenthistory is replete with
fabrication.
Lazar is also a criminal.
He was convicted in 1980 forhis involvement in a
prostitution ring and began in2006 for selling illegal
chemicals.
As well as being dismissed byskeptics, lazar has been
renounced by some ufologists.
(32:39):
Journalist Ken Lane states alot of credible people have
looked at Lazar's story andrashly concluded that he made it
up.
Travis (32:47):
I think we need to get like an actual pronunciation on
Is it ufologists, is itufologists or is it ufologists,
ufologists, ufologist or is itufologist, aphologist,
aphologist?
I think aphologist is reallyfunny it just seems weird.
Josh (33:01):
It seems like someone angry wrote this about him and
it probably was.
Travis (33:07):
It probably was an angry person.
I mean, a lot of things aredone out of spite it's very
deliberate wording.
What it should say is Well,that's what we were talking
about earlier with the characterassassination.
Like they were after BobLazar's character, they tried to
discredit him and now I'm goingto start to sound like that
person.
But you know, just doing this alittle bit of reading, it does
seem like there's some characterdefamation that was trying to
(33:28):
happen, where they made light ofhis whistleblowing and made
heavy his involvement in aprostitution ring Like that's.
If you were to probably look uphis criminal history, it's that
Like prostitution ring.
When he got raided later withhis wife, it was claimed that it
was part of a murderinvestigation.
There was an element, thallium,that had leaked out and
(33:51):
contaminated the lab and somepeople died because of it.
So that's what they wereraiding his house for.
Josh (33:56):
And then in 2017, he got raided again looking for element
115.
Travis (34:02):
He said he stole.
Josh (34:03):
Yeah, which he said privately.
They turned off their phones,they were in the woods, and
that's.
The other thing is they've beenfollowing him.
In the Joe Rogan podcast I Ilistened to, he talked about how
they went after some of hisfriends and family and some of
his friends that were inmilitary or science.
Travis (34:20):
they let go as far as that goes, I would again.
I would say cite your sourceslike it's easy to say my friends
and family are being threatenedand just leave it like an
obscure allegation or claim likethat, but like if you're
allegation or claim like that,but like if you're going to make
something like that and be on avery big podcast, I think you
need to be more specific alittle bit.
(34:41):
You don't have to name names oranything like that, but give I
mean it was a two and a halfhour.
Josh (34:45):
I didn't listen.
Travis (34:45):
I didn't listen to the podcast.
I don't, I don't know.
I'm just saying cite yoursources.
Josh (35:02):
That is something that is Okay.
The other thing is he knew thenames of some of the generals
working and scientists workingat Area 51 that no pedestrian,
no one, should know, sure.
Travis (35:14):
Okay.
Josh (35:15):
The interviewer who got him the job at S4 was
interviewed and said he doesremember Bob interviewing him.
Travis (35:23):
Was he like?
Yeah man, stephen King cameinto my workplace and just
started asking me questions.
I thought it was for a book.
Josh (35:28):
The other thing is that he was kind of vindicated over
time because some of the thingshe talked about, which were
denied or just seemed fake, wereeventually right all along.
Yeah, just like the Los Alamoslab that he worked at.
This was later Okay, he was inthe phone book, the directory of
employees there, with otherscientists right.
(35:49):
Area 51 he said there was a topsecret facility in the nevada
desert called area 51 and, likeyou said, the government denied
its existence until 2013.
And then the hand scanner thathe talked about yeah, to
actually enter s4, they wouldlike read your bones or whatever
.
In this documentary theyactually showed an image of it
and Bob was like I never thoughtI'd see that again.
(36:10):
That is it.
That is exactly it.
And then element 115.
Yeah, he didn't know enoughabout it to seem credible, but
in 2003, a joint team ofRussians and American scientists
at the Joint Institute forNuclear Research in Russia
discovered the synthetic element.
So all the weirdness with hispast being washed, all the
(36:31):
defamation and then him beingright about all of these things,
plus all the otherwhistleblowers.
This guy was an earlywhistleblower.
All the newer whistleblowersare coming out, especially in
other countries that have high,high, high clearance, one of the
main whistleblowers right now.
He's the one that went in andinterviewed all the people with
(36:52):
top clearance.
Who is it?
I don't remember.
We're going to have to do anepisode on the current.
Travis (36:58):
Oh, you're going to dock some people.
Yeah, oh, ok.
Juicy episode.
Josh (37:04):
But that's the thing is like these people are the top
officials, highest clearance,and they're coming forward in
congress saying, hey, this isreal, the world needs to know
about it.
It is illegal what the unitedstates are doing, and congress
is like, yeah, it is.
We want all documentation thatthe military has now and we want
(37:24):
all whistleblowers to comeforward and let us know what
you've been doing and there'llbe no punishment.
But the a lot of allwhistleblowers to come forward
and let us know what you've beendoing and there'll be no
punishment.
But a lot of the whistleblowershave backed out because they
have been getting threats verysimilar to what Bob Lazar has
had.
So just everything together.
It just seems as though thereis something more than just the
facts that we know, and the onlyreason we have the facts that
(37:45):
we know are because of thewhistleblowers.
Right?
Travis (37:52):
If we didn't have the whistleblowers we we have.
The facts that we know arebecause of the whistleblowers,
right.
Josh (37:54):
If we didn't have the whistleblowers, we would have no
facts at all.
Right, well, that's, that'sfair in any business.
Travis (37:57):
The government said marijuana was bad.
Josh (37:57):
Yeah, and then you have, and then you try it and you're
like this isn't bad, yeah.
Travis (38:00):
And then you have cheech and chong saying like no, this
stuff is fucking good.
Yeah, this stuff fucking rules.
And then willie nelson comesout and like he's like america's
grandpa, like why would you,why would you try to discredit
willie nelson?
he says weed is good well, andnow it's legal in a lot of
places we're here everywhere,but where we live, in idaho you
know I didn't mean to invokecheech and chong by name, but
(38:21):
you can get weed delivered toevery other state in our union
except idaho.
They say that on their website.
They're like we'll deliveranywhere except to you, idaho
that's true, I've seen that yeah, it's hilarious and sad.
It's only funny if you don'tlive, if you don't live here at
this, but that's but that's thething is like the government
(38:43):
said it was wrong forever.
Josh (38:44):
And then they're like oh, never mind, it's not you know.
Travis (38:47):
So I mean, they have a right, and that's just no I mean
like, look, if we're gonna getinto like that sort of
conspiracy stuff I I love drugconspiracy information like yeah
, uh, marijuana.
There was a campaign to makemarijuana seem illegal for
various reasons, which we're notgoing to go into that right now
because this isn't that's notthe point of this podcast.
But they made a show, a movie,reefer madness.
(39:09):
That was a a scare tactic yeah,the scare tactic to keep people
from smoking weed, which wasthen parodied in a musical later
, where they do very similarcrazy shenanigans in the movie
musical.
To kind of juxtapose againstthe original reefer madness,
that was made to like makepeople afraid of marijuana.
And it's marijuana like youcould smoke the shit out of that
(39:30):
.
You're either gonna smokeyourself sober or smoke yourself
passed out like, uh, marijuanayou.
There are no records of anybodyoverdoing on marijuana.
Josh (39:38):
Usually it's in conjunction with another drug
just so listeners know, travisand I actually don't smoke
marijuana no, I don't.
Travis (39:44):
It makes me very weird in my brain same with me I get
panic attacks.
Josh (39:48):
Yeah, I get panic attacks.
Travis (39:49):
I get panic attacks.
I used to love it.
It was my favorite thing to dobefore cleaning my house, but I
can't do it.
It gives me so much anxiety.
Josh (39:56):
But it is an interesting history of the drug.
I mean, I've heard thatlobbyists went against it
because of big paper.
Travis (40:03):
There are a lot of reasons.
Like paper didn't like becausehemp was a side product of
marijuana or a sister plant ofmarijuana and that was going to
take away from like paper andany sort of wood product.
Josh (40:15):
Yeah, there's all these crazy things.
Yeah, it just lets you knowthat the government isn't always
reliable.
Travis (40:20):
No, it's not.
Business is not always reliable.
It's not necessarily thegovernment.
I think the government is, forthe most part, acting on behalf
of the American people.
But there are those few ingovernment that have a lot of
power and get that power throughbig business, through lobbying
efforts, and they become richand powerful because of those.
(40:41):
But there are people ingovernment that do have the
people's best interests at heart, but those people are not
accepting big donations, they'renot accepting a lot of outside
money and are doing a lot ofgrassroots fundraising.
When you're looking at likegrassroots fundraising versus
like Silicon Valley funding, youjust get squished.
Yeah, you get squished like alittle bug.
Josh (41:01):
The reason whistleblowers are so important is we were
talking about how, even youstill have the skewed view,
skeptic, of the community I amthe scully of this podcast.
Travis (41:15):
Right, x files.
Yeah, from x files you'remolder, or my you're.
Josh (41:19):
You're the david dacovany I'll be him, yeah, great he's a
handsome yeah, handsome sexaddict.
I was gonna say hand model butthe thing is reference with a
lot of these prominentwhistleblowers coming out and a
lot of the documentaries and alot of videos being released
from military actual militaryvideo and Congress actually
(41:43):
taking notice and calling forthis information to come forward
.
It's making it as though thiscommunity isn't as crazy as they
have seemed in the past or thatthe government has made them
seem.
It's vindicating for a lot ofthese people who have been
called crazy, because I've knownmultiple people who have seen
strange phenomenon and differentthings, but they don't like
(42:05):
talking about it because of thestigma around the culture that
was created by the government, Ibelieve.
Travis (42:11):
Okay, sure, I think that there's a lot of phenomena that
people see, and they don't havethe language to describe what
they're seeing.
So they're just like regularpeople like me and you who might
see something up in the cosmos,up in the heavens, and they
don't know how to describe whatan asteroid is or, you know, a
satellite is, or slight shiftsin weather or whatever.
(42:32):
And so there are things thatnaturally occur here that people
just don't have the experiencewith.
And when they see somethinglike a lightning ball I don't
know if you've seen those before, but they're just like these
little balls of lightning thataren't grounded and they just
float around.
Josh (42:47):
I had seen terribly dangerous.
I've seen that in the house I'min right now.
Travis (42:51):
Yeah, those are incredibly dangerous.
Josh (42:53):
So Jordan and I both saw it.
We were sitting on the couchand we both saw it in our
peripherals yeah, and when welooked it was gone.
Travis (43:02):
If you don't have an understanding of that, you could
attribute that to anextraterrestrial phenomenon.
Yeah Right, like, if you don'thave the language or the
experience, then that is.
It's otherworldly to see that.
Josh (43:13):
Yeah, it freaked us out, for sure, and we didn't know and
we did research and figured outwhat it was.
Travis (43:19):
Yeah, I do want to get I don't know this is at the end
of the podcast, so me saying getahead of it what this podcast
is about.
What it is about for me is Iwant to gain an understanding of
something that I don'tunderstand or I don't have a lot
of knowledge of, and this is myway of doing it.
I primarily like talking aboutmovies, and I have a separate
(43:40):
podcast where I get theopportunity to do that, but I
also really love information,and this is something that was
near and dear to my friend, josh, and I really am interested in
it, and so that is my interestin this podcast.
I am looking forward tolearning as much about aliens,
phenomena, flying saucers, area51.
(44:00):
Not so interested in like theBob Lazar of it all, necessarily
, but I am very interested inlike cult of personality, and I
think Bob Lazar has a cult ofpersonality.
I think that there's a hugefollowing and that people get
into ufology ufology because ofBob Lazar, not that he's
charismatic, but because of thebuzz around him.
I guess, if it were I don'tknow if that's the right word,
but Well, and also thebizarreness he brings a lot of.
(44:23):
Yeah, his milkshake, as it were,brings a lot of boys to the
yard.
Josh (44:27):
Yeah, I'm learning and getting all this info too.
I appreciate that you're comingat it the way you are with-.
Hey I appreciate you too, josh.
No, I appreciate that you'recoming at it the way you are by
questioning everything.
I mean that's important.
I'm never going to denysomeone's question.
I'm eager and excited to learnjust as much as you are, but I'm
(44:47):
more prone to believe with justthe information that I have,
sure, which is awesome.
I want to encourage anyonelistening to do your own
research.
Don't just listen to what we'resaying.
Travis (45:00):
No, no, no, no.
Listen to what we're saying.
Yes, please listen.
In compliment to this nonsense.
There are resources out therefor you guys to look up.
Josh (45:09):
Yeah, we want you to learn about Babalazar and form your
own opinions.
Travis (45:14):
And, fortunately for us, unfortunately for you we don't
have an email set up just yet,so we can say whatever we want,
Consequence free.
Haha, suck it, nerds With thatwe do have a quiz.
Josh (45:27):
So next episode we're going to talk about the roswell
incident, one of the yeah, oneof the most groundbreaking, most
popular incident of incidencesif you don't know anything about
aliens, you probably have avery tertiary knowledge of
roswell and what roswell is, thetitular roswell incident and
(45:48):
we're going to get into it.
Travis (45:49):
And we will talk about next week.
Josh (45:51):
There was whistleblowers in that as well.
Travis (45:53):
Okay, I feel like we said whistleblowers a lot in
this episode.
Josh (45:56):
Well, they're important.
So for a kind of a baseline ofwhere we're at with Roswell, we
are going to do a quiz to seewhat we each know.
Travis (46:05):
Get ready for disappointment.
Disappointment, if you'reputting all of your eggs in my
basket.
Not gonna be, not gonna be fun.
I, oh boy, you want, you wantto take the first one like ask
you I'll ask you, okay.
No, you ask me.
You ask me because I have theadvantage of seeing all the
questions, just not knowing anyof the uh, the answers okay, we
(46:26):
want to make yourself look asgood as possible.
No, I want to get okay.
Yeah, I want all the easyquestions.
We were given a littlequalifier before we started.
Don't click any of the thingsbecause it may not give us a
real-time answer.
I think we have to submit tofind what our.
But go ahead, josh, take itaway.
Josh (46:45):
So I'm going to ask you the first question.
Yeah, all right.
Question one for Travis when isRoswell, is it?
Travis (46:56):
Nevada, Arizona, Texas or New Mexico, it is in the
great state of Nevada.
Final answer, home of sin andluxury.
Josh (47:05):
Okay.
Travis (47:06):
I don't know if it's luxury.
Josh (47:11):
It's really hot in nevada.
Great answer.
Do you want to ask me?
Travis (47:13):
the next one.
Yeah, hold on.
Before we get to this, we willsubmit our answers, so we will
have a full summary of this atthe end of the quiz.
So, josh, what year did theroswell ufo incident occur?
Was it the year 1917, 1947,1967 or 1987?
Josh (47:34):
I believe it was 1947.
Okay, go ahead and ask me thenext question what was initially
reported in the newspaper tohave been found at roswell I
believe that was a weatherballoon.
They are a weather balloon.
Oh, a meteorite, a flying discor a military aircraft, and so
(47:55):
you say weather balloon I saiduh, weather balloon, um yeah
okay okay, josh.
Travis (48:02):
uh, what did the military claim was actually
found at the Roswell site?
Was it an experimental aircraft, a Soviet spy device, a weather
balloon, a school scienceproject?
Josh (48:15):
A weather balloon.
Okay, all right.
What secret military projectwas the instant blamed on?
Oh Jesus Project, blue BookProject, mogul Project.
Travis (48:27):
Sign or Project Grudge, I don't know.
I don't know.
Uh, I'm gonna guess, because itseems like there was so much
and this is way off base.
I'm gonna say project grudge,um, but only because it seemed
like somebody had an axe togrind against Bob Lazar.
Okay, okay, josh, yes, whatelse is said to have been found
(48:52):
in the Roswell debris?
Was it alien bodies,unidentified plants, advanced
weapons or alien hieroglyphics?
Josh (49:04):
The answer is alien bodies .
Alien bodies.
Travis (49:07):
Okay, hit submit, new Mexico.
I was wrong.
So right off the bat I waswrong, and it continued on.
After that.
Josh got his right 1947.
I got my what was initially areport in the newspapers to have
been found at Roswell as aweather balloon.
That's wrong.
It was a flying disc.
Josh (49:28):
It was redone.
Well, we'll get about thatlater.
Travis (49:31):
Josh's question what did the military claim was actually
found at Roswell was a weatherballoon.
So that's where they changed it.
That's what I had thought.
So Josh got his right.
What secret military projectwas the incident blamed on?
I said Project Grudge, wrongProject Mogul on.
I said project grudge, wrongproject mogul.
And then, of course, the lastquestion what else is said to
(49:52):
have been found in the roswelldebris?
Josh correctly answered alienbody.
So 100 to josh, zero percent tome I wouldn't have gotten the
project one correct.
All the other ones I knew welluh, next time speak up, josh, I
would have gotten the aliens oneright I, I would have gotten
weather balloons.
Josh (50:06):
Right, that's true.
Travis (50:08):
You're the one that picked the order so that you'd
look good, uh, I know I'm anidiot, I uh I'm, I'm a legal
idiot well, cool, now we knowwho knows what going into our
roswell episode.
I know nothing, josh knows.
Uh, quite a bit it's exciting.
Josh (50:24):
There's a lot to get into it with it okay, well, uh, how
do we end this josh?
Travis (50:28):
what do we do?
Thanks for coming to the show.
Thanks for listening.
I appreciate your time.
I love you.
You crazy paranoid freaks, keeplistening.
Grow with us, grow as we grow.
This show is a grower, not ashower.
Josh (50:42):
Yes, I respect all of you in this fine community You're
going to get arrested forpandering, I could.
Travis (50:48):
Hopefully that's what's going to happen, you're going to
get arrested.
You're going to get a raid inhere for pandering.
Josh (50:52):
I'm just excited to do this show and as we learn and
grow, you can be on this journeywith us.
If you're in the same boat asus, where you're interested but
you don't know a lot, maybe ourlittle show will ease you into
it, just like it is us.
Sure, yep, all right.
Thanks for listening.
Okay, bye.
Aliens Aliens, yes.
Travis (00:18):
All right, so welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no.
I travis, and I am josh, andthis is an otherworldly podcast,
as ambiguous as our title.
Now, just just for the listener.
I believe in aliens prettystrongly.
Uh, I think that they exist.
I think that our universe istoo big, uh, for them not to
(00:41):
exist.
I think that it's just a matterof like, I don't know evolution
and space and it.
Anyway, like I said, ouruniverse is huge, so for there
not to be aliens makes me feel alittle uncomfortable in my
brain.
Yeah, that being said, we'regonna talk today about a
documentary that we watchedcalled bob lazar, colon, area 51
(01:02):
and ufos, uf.
Is that what it's called?
Area 51, ufo and and?
such okay, I just wanted to getthe title.
Oh, it's area 51, ampersandflying saucers.
So, yeah, we're talking aboutthis documentary that I watched.
Josh sent it to me, so this isgoing to be the topic for our
(01:22):
show.
I watched it last night.
Did you rent it?
No, it's on tubi.
Oh, is it okay?
I bought it free with ads.
Yeah, I bought it, okay, manmoney bags.
Josh (01:34):
No, I just want to sound just like an owner like throwing
money around.
Travis (01:37):
So so where did you buy?
You buy through amazon, yesamazon like four bucks, or rent
it I think it was five.
Josh (01:43):
We bought it.
Renting was like $3.99 andbuying it was five.
Travis (01:47):
Okay, yeah, I didn't I just I found it on Tubi Tubi's
doing a lot of heavy lifting formedia consumption for me lately
.
That's free.
You should check it out, Ishould.
I've heard good things.
It has ads, though, so you Imean, if there's things that I
don't have to buy.
I don't mind ads.
(02:08):
Yeah, tubi has a lot of shit.
Okay, tubi, if you're listening.
Uh, sponsorship would be nice.
Yeah, tubi, I'll promote theshit out of you.
Josh (02:12):
Yeah, I already do well, there you go, there you go,
there we go, let's podcast we,uh, we introduced a documentary.
Travis (02:19):
Uh, bob lazar, colon, area 51, ampersand flying
saucers.
Right, that's good, that's allyeah, that's all we need.
Josh (02:26):
So bob is one of the more influential whistleblowers of
the alien and ufo community.
Travis (02:34):
This was a 2018 documentary.
Just oh, was it really first?
Yeah for those that areinterested in how current it is
so it was done in collaborationwith a guy named george knapp
this documentary.
He had an interview at the verybeginning of this right.
That was him in the pool.
They had terrible audio.
Josh (02:51):
Yeah, that was crazy yeah, that audio, it is like pool
room I don't.
Travis (02:57):
Maybe it was his pool room, maybe it was a hotel that
he just decided to meet in, butit wasn't, I mean it was what
you would expect a recording tosound like an echoey room with a
pool, it was.
It was a bad choice to decideto record that piece of his or
an artistic choice, becausethere was a lot of artistic
(03:18):
things wild artistic choicesmade in this correct?
Yeah, yeah, okay, so you were.
You're saying about bob lazar,before I interrupted you he was
one of the the originalwhistleblowers.
Uh, what 40, 30 years ago, uh1980, 89 is this like is 87 to
89 is when he called out area 51.
Josh (03:42):
So 1989 is when he had his interview.
Is that check?
Travis (03:46):
in with your notes.
Josh (03:47):
Yep, okay, so 1989,.
He had an interview with GeorgeKnapp.
We got to see this interview inthe documentary.
Travis (03:55):
Yep, where he's in a truck and you see him awkwardly
step out of the truck.
So they must have gotten likethe raw footage from that,
because I don't think they wouldhave aired that part of it.
No, he's in the truck and thenhe just kind of opens the truck
door and gets out and then youcould almost see him.
And if you, I'm not thatfamiliar with Bob Lazar, but
they dropped this in thisdocumentary about 10 minutes in.
(04:18):
Maybe they'd already talked toBob Lazar or had like interviews
of him talking, so you knewwhat his profile looked like,
what Bob Lazar or had likeinterviews of him talking, so
you knew what his profile lookedlike.
Josh (04:26):
So if you knew what Bob.
Travis (04:27):
Lazar looked and sounded and sound like he's got a very
distinct voice.
If you knew what he soundedlike, I mean you, you would, you
would know exactly who wasbeing hidden.
Yeah, yeah, it was very youwould hone right in on who that
was.
Josh (04:38):
It was almost comical.
It's like if, if you went anddid an interview about me, yeah,
Half your face was blackened.
Travis (04:46):
Or I did an interview about my dogs and my family
watched it and they were like,well, that's weird.
Josh (04:52):
Why is Travis doing this?
Travis (04:54):
Why is he in silhouette?
Josh (04:55):
Why is he trying to hide himself poorly?
Travis (04:58):
Yeah.
Josh (04:58):
It's strange, because the topic of the movie was
futuristic science and theycouldn't modulate his voice.
Because the topic of the moviewas futuristic science Well,
just taking, and they couldn'tmodulate his voice.
Travis (05:07):
Something that's been in the popular vernacular for a
long time.
Like people have always assumedArea 51's been around, I
thought Area 51 was like fromthe 60s, so like Men in Black 2,
where they go back to the 50sor whatever.
Yeah, or is that 3?
But anyway they go back to the50s and they're having first
(05:27):
contact with aliens and that'swhen that agency started.
I just assumed that lined upwith when our knowledge of
aliens in Area 51 started aswell.
I didn't realize that it was asrecent as 1989 that it became
part of like popular culture.
Josh (05:42):
Like people started being like what is this?
Travis (05:44):
Yeah, and I think the military even denied after he
said right and according to ournotes, um, it was officially
recognized in 2013.
Are you serious?
Josh (05:53):
Well, that's crazy, and and so Bob worked.
We found out that he worked ina like a sub area of area 51.
It was 12 or 14 miles out intoa hillside or into a
mountainside called S4.
It was near the Nellis AirForce Base, which is what we
know as Area 51.
Travis (06:12):
And he claimed the site consisted of concealed aircraft
hangars built into themountainside and that his job
was to help with reverseengineering nine flying saucers,
which he alleged wereextraterrestrial in origin yeah,
he said that the technology wedid not have the technology to
build a craft like this and hepoints out this thing that's
(06:33):
referred to as element 115,which is called unup ununpentium
I think which is very similarto like unobtainium, which which
is James Cameron's element inAvatar.
So maybe James Cameron's got afinger in this pie, I don't know
.
Probably Then it wasscientifically recognized as
microbium and he said that thiselement that was on the sphere
(06:55):
in this documentary repulsedhuman flesh, and I don't mean
like repulse, like made you sick, like it was like a Like it was
an ugly element.
Josh (07:03):
Yeah, it was an ugly element.
Yeah, it was like ugly.
Travis (07:06):
Well, yeah, ununpentium, or whatever it's called.
It's kind of a it's a mouthfulto say, but he said when he was
reaching towards this orb, itpushed his hands back like a
force field, and so he wasabsolutely fascinated by this
and the way he got so, just likeas part of this documentary we
watched.
He had talked about hisinterview with the physicist
(07:27):
that was hiring as headphysicist for Area 51, or
whatever he said.
He built a reactor.
Josh (07:33):
A hydrogen collider.
Travis (07:34):
Yeah, yeah, particle, particle accelerator that he had
in his room.
Josh (07:39):
Yeah, when he was a kid.
Travis (07:41):
Well like a teenager probably college.
He said he had one in his roomat the time, so and we're taking
his word for it.
Josh (07:47):
That's true.
So yeah, he claims he worked onreverse engineering, alien
technology, the discovery ofelement 115.
115.
It was the fuel for thespacecrafts and the existence of
extraterrestrial spacecraftsMm-hmm.
That's his claims.
Terrestrial spacecrafts.
That's his claims and you canread more.
(08:08):
He has a testimony on hiswebsite, Bob Lazarcom.
Travis (08:09):
Humble plug.
Yeah, what are we, bob Lazarshills?
Are we shilling for?
Josh (08:12):
Bob Lazar.
So he came onto this, this newsstation in Nevada, with George
Knapp, yeah, and I was veryconfused, like I thought.
You know he was a whistleblowerbecause he wanted the world to
have the greater knowledge.
I don't know, I just.
But he did it because he wantedto protect himself.
He says they can't kill me ifI'm out and about with this
(08:34):
information.
Travis (08:35):
Okay, that's, that's wild.
I mean, they could, they could.
Josh (08:39):
Yeah, I mean, look at the the Boeing whistleblowers two of
them died.
Yeah, I mean, look at theBoeing whistleblowers Two of
them died.
Listening to him, he regrets it.
Sometimes he kind of wishesthat he didn't come out.
Travis (08:49):
Well, that's yeah, that's the not the problem but
that's a thing thatwhistleblowers all have to take
into consideration is coming outfrom the shadows, no matter
what it is, whether it's, youknow, boeing or a government
agency, there are consequencesfor that.
Like, you're not just going tosay this is happening, we need
to draw attention to it andthink you're not going to have
(09:12):
any consequences for that.
So that is the fear that allwhistleblowers have.
If he was a true whistleblower,then that was a brave thing to
do.
That's it's a hard thing.
Josh (09:20):
Absolutely.
And I also listened to the JoeRogan interview and he was
really surprised that no oneelse that he worked with came
out.
Yeah, and it actually probablycemented.
Well, do you think that'sbecause there's no like.
Travis (09:34):
Do you think it was made up?
Do you think you made all thisstuff up?
Josh (09:37):
I don't think so and just has like a working knowledge of
chemistry.
It's possible but there's justtoo many things that he talked
about that were denied thateventually.
I mean just like element 115,they all denied it, denied it,
denied it, and now it's on theperiodic table, yeah, which is
crazy.
So, after he came out, did thislong thing, just bluntly, just
(10:00):
first sentence.
He didn't ease into thiswhistleblow.
Yeah, he's just.
I saw alien aircrafts.
Right, okay, I have beenreverse engineering.
Travis (10:11):
There's even part of his testimony where he's like.
I was walking down a hall and Isaw two regularly sized human
beings talking to a very shortcreature with very long arms.
Josh (10:24):
He mentioned that in the movie yeah.
Did he later in the movie sayno, I don't think that that was
an actual alien.
Travis (10:31):
No, he didn't say.
Later he did say that he sawthe inside of the craft and that
the seats were very small andhe's like imagine we were
designing a ship for children.
That's what this would looklike.
Josh (10:42):
Okay, so I think it was the Joe Rogan.
He's like no, I don't think Iactually saw an alien.
I think it was two scientistswith a dummy sitting there in
the seat, like they put togethera dummy to see what the size
would be for the chair.
Travis (10:55):
Okay, cause his his testimony in this documentary
was and I I might be wrong, butthey were standing in a hallway
talking down to an alien or anextraterrestrial being.
Josh (11:08):
Yeah, he was walking down the hallway and there was a 18
by 18 window into the room andhe just looked in and I think he
got in trouble for looking intoo.
Travis (11:18):
Yeah, no, looky-loos, yep, that's their policy.
They have that written on thewalls at Area 5.
Josh (11:22):
No, looky-loos no looky-loos.
Travis (11:24):
If you got time to look, you got time to cook up some
more Element 115,.
Get back to work.
Josh (11:29):
Yeah.
Travis (11:32):
It's just a big meth lab for Element 115.
Well, I mean not meth but yeah,so Bob is a Bob Laser.
Josh (11:39):
He is a propulsions expert .
Travis (11:40):
So that's why he was hired to make that joke.
Josh (11:42):
Oh, yeah, absolutely cool.
Uh, he was a propulsions expertwho was featured in the news
for a jet car that he used todrive to work.
Later, which we'll get intothis next segment is how his
whistleblowing was not receivedwell, so the immediate reaction
from the scientific community inthe media was insane.
(12:04):
Everyone just shunned him.
There was a ton of efforts todiscredit him and we think that
I mean it looks as though thegovernment responded by just
trying to scrub his existence.
It didn't seem like theyfocused very much on that, they
just kind of dabbled in it alittle bit on the movie.
I mean it was crazy.
Yes, it was crazy.
Focused very much on that, theyjust kind of dabbled in it a
little bit on the movie.
(12:25):
I mean it was crazy yes, it wascrazy it would drive me crazy if
something like that happened,if I said something and all of a
sudden they right we, I mean,we talked about this.
Travis (12:35):
We talked about, like, the risks of whistleblowing.
Josh (12:37):
That's, uh, it's, it's a real threat, no matter where
you're, where you're employedbut to have the resources of
someone trying to sabotage whatyou're saying, which I mean they
go really far, they do a lot ofcrazy things character
assassination, stuff in here,you know, in our old dossier.
Travis (12:54):
Thank you, jordan, for putting this together for us, by
the way yeah, our researcher isuh is the best good.
You have a personal connectionwith our researcher.
Josh (13:02):
Yep, she's my wife and she does everything 110%, and she's
very passionate about thesetopics.
Travis (13:14):
So are we talking about his criminal activity?
Josh (13:17):
So a year later he was arrested for aiding and abetting
a prostitute ring.
Travis (13:22):
Yeah, so 1990.
Josh (13:23):
This was reduced to felony pandering.
I don't know what that means.
I don't either, so he pledguilty.
Travis (13:30):
Yeah, he pled guilty to it.
Josh (13:31):
And was ordered to do 150 hours of community service.
Yeah, that is a weirdtransition going from reverse
engineering alien tech topandering prostitutes.
Travis (13:42):
I don't know.
It's like he's a human man.
I'm not going to like kink,shame anybody.
I'm not shaming Everybody hastheir vices and he pled guilty
to the reduced charges.
I mean good for him.
So I think this just plays intolike them trying to discredit
anything that he said or issaying.
They're like well, this guy'sinto smut and objectifying women
(14:05):
, so can you really trust himwhen it comes to chemistry and
these things that he's claiming?
So this is part of thecharacter assassination that
took place.
Josh (14:14):
But are they saying so aiding and abetting?
Does that mean he hired aprostitute or was he a pimp?
Travis (14:19):
I don't.
That's a good question.
I guess more on that later,maybe a good question.
I guess they were more on thatlater maybe, maybe, hopefully,
yeah, further research uh is dueto this topic if we ever have,
like a patreon or bonus paidepisodes, we'll we'll just talk
about what his sexualproclivities were like pimp
lazar.
Josh (14:36):
An episode of the the dark underbelly side of bob lazar
and his pimp days and scienceyeah, yeah, so there was that
side of Bob.
Lazar and his pimp days andscience.
Yeah, yeah, so there was that.
In 2006, he and his wife, joyWhite, were charged with
violating the Federal HazardousSubstance Act for shipping
restricted chemicals acrossstate lines.
The charges were stemmed from araid in 2003 on United
(15:08):
Nuclear's business offices,where the chemical sales records
were examined.
So that is where he now works,it seems, because that was shown
in the movie.
Travis (15:11):
Okay, it's shown him working there at united nuclear
yeah, with different metals andthen in 2017 I was hold on, I
was under the impression that hewas working in his own like
independent research facility Ithink he, because it seemed like
that place seems like it washim, and then one other guy who
loved working there, like it didseem like weirdly loved, he
(15:32):
just would.
That's all you're talking about.
I love working here.
You don't get to come and messwith this kind of stuff anywhere
else.
And yeah, it's a it's apleasure to work here.
A lot of the info I felt likewas leading up to the 115, and
it spent a lot of time on that.
There wasn't a whole lot onwhat I was.
Well, not just that, it's BobLazar colon, area 51 and Flying
(15:54):
Saucers, and I didn't feel likethere was enough in there about
the two subtitles of that theArea 51 and Flying Saucers.
Subtitles of that the Area 51and Flying Saucers.
It was kind of covering, likeBob Lazar's work history and not
even covering the controversyCause I don't at least I don't
remember there being acontroversy in that documentary.
I'm just now reading about itin the dossier that was put
(16:17):
together.
Josh (16:18):
Yeah, so that's what was interesting.
So you going into watching thismovie, you're like I don't know
who balbazar is.
Travis (16:24):
yeah, watching this I thought it was the ancient
aliens guy you still don't.
Josh (16:28):
I mean, you do a little bit more but come at me, alien
bros do it but you don't really.
The documentary didn't informyou of who balbazar was other
than a whistleblower one, whichI mean they don't, they don't
even.
Travis (16:41):
I don't think they even say that in the documentary that
he was a whistleblower.
That was just something thatpopped into my head.
I was like, oh, he's the guythat introduced us to Area 51.
Okay, that's who.
Bob Lazar is All right.
So then things started to fallinto place after that knowledge
hit.
My problem with this is I havenot ever seen a movie with Bob
(17:02):
Lazar in it, and like my alienreferences mostly are going to
be centered around movies.
So like that is my introductionto aliens, you know, thanks to
Steven Spielberg, like seeing ETwhen I was a wee lad so Lazar
kind of looks like Stephen Kinguh, he does look like Stephen
King very much.
He's got those big round glassesthat have like I mean not
(17:23):
currently, but back when BobLazar was Bob Lazar, he had like
these glasses that had likethat cross beam on it and, like
any engineer you knew from the80s or 90s, they were wearing
these exact glasses.
Josh (17:36):
And I think that.
Travis (17:37):
They're cool glasses.
I wear glasses and I waslooking at getting a pair of
these just because I thoughtthey were like very cool retro
glasses, yeah, but putting themon my face just makes me look
like a creepy pedo.
I can see that well, that's whyI'm not wearing them.
I don't want people to see that.
Josh (17:56):
I don't want people especially when you went through
your, especially when you wentthrough your mustache stage.
Oh, that was the worst.
Travis (18:01):
Yeah, yeah, that was the worst.
I looked like the lorax he didum, I speak for the trees.
Josh (18:09):
I don't think we need any more proof that he was an
engineer other than the glassesyeah, no, that's, that's cred,
right there that is, that's labcred.
Yeah, I was gonna say streetcred, but he's far from it.
Yeah, he's far from the streets.
Other than him driving A rocketship, a rocket ship to work, and
he actually made the news andlater, when people were trying
(18:30):
to discredit him, the place thathe would drive to work and was
in the local newspaper about it.
Yeah, they said he never workedthere and then they went to
look at his colleges.
They said he never went tocollege.
Travis (18:45):
He didn't have a record of ever being at mit.
He was enrolled in anotherschool but it was like 2500
miles away.
The guy george knapp, didreveal that he was in the
directory for area 51.
No, maybe it wasn't area 51,but he was in a directory.
That if he wasn't employedalamos if he wasn't employed
there, why would his name be inthe directory?
(19:05):
But again, are we looking atpaper records in a paper phone
book?
That could be faked.
Josh (19:12):
Yeah, he found his name, along with some of the other
scientific technicians, in aphone book.
Yeah, phone book, which I wishphone books were still a thing,
like company phone books orchurch phone books or school
phone books, do you remember?
The school phone books.
Travis (19:27):
When I got my first cell phone as a very young lad, I
remember putting a tiny versionof the phone book because they
would send these giant ass phonebooks that had everything in it
and then you would get asmaller version of like
businesses and then someresidential stuff, and I
remember putting that in my carand thinking this is the coolest
.
This is like peak adulthood.
Josh (19:47):
Yeah, I have an index of every business.
Travis (19:51):
Yeah Well, if somebody was riding around with me I'd
say like oh yeah, if you need tolook up Pizza Hut, there's a
phone book under my passengerseat.
Go ahead.
Josh (19:59):
I would find funny people like funny names in the white
pages and just call them and belike, hi, is this john hamburger
?
And then he's like, yeah, and Iwas like.
Travis (20:11):
And then I would just hang up so this is part of the
no aliens portion of the podcastI mean it lines up because
there was a company phone bookyeah, and he was in it and they
and they are.
Josh (20:23):
Yeah, and they said he wasn't in it.
Yeah, and then he was alsonamed one of the technicians or
scientists at Los Alamos in thenewspaper because he drove his
rocket car to work every day.
That would go 200 miles an hour.
Travis (20:39):
God, I hope not.
That's really fast.
Where's his rocket car now?
I don't know.
Is there pictures of himdriving his rocket car?
Josh (20:47):
Yeah.
Travis (20:49):
Okay, I see it.
It looks like a DeLorean.
Imagine what you think a rocketcar would look like, and that's
practically it.
It looks like Marty McFly'sDeLorean from Back to the Future
, Except it doesn't have thewhat are those doors called that
go up?
Josh (21:10):
I don't know what those are called Wing doors.
Yeah, so it was.
1982 is when this picture in thenewspaper came out, and it's a
picture a man with a car, withKnapp, george Knapp, the
journalist, saying that itprofiles Lazar and his interest
in jet cars, and it zooms in onthe clip and it says it's not
the car.
So much that's important toLazar, a physicist at Los Alamos
(21:32):
Mason physics facility.
The important thing is the jetengine.
It's something he's beenworking on for years.
It started a while ago whenworking with another researcher
in NASA on the technology.
Okay, so that's what thearticle said.
Travis (21:47):
Yeah, look at that, that same with his rocket car.
Josh (21:50):
And he was on a rocket.
Travis (21:51):
It has like an engine on the in the back.
It's a hatchback, so the backis open and then this engine is
sitting in the back of his car.
It's like the most ridiculousthing.
But there he is, standing onthe hood, at the hood of his car
, looking like a cool guy.
This is a poster called alivein the darkness the story of bob
lazar.
(22:12):
I want that poster.
It's pretty cool.
He does look like Stephen King.
You're right.
Yeah, yeah, there's an article.
This is a real hot rod.
Bob Lazar isn't kidding when hesays his car runs on a jet
engine.
The physicist at Los AlamosNational Laboratory modified his
compact car for a jet enginethat can propel it up to 200
miles per hour.
So this was an article in.
(22:33):
It doesn't say it's just anewspaper clip.
Josh (22:36):
It looks like, because of our wonderful researcher, it was
Los Alamos Monitor article, soit was in 1982.
It was the date reading SundayJune.
It says 2X on here, but I thinkit's June 2nd or June 20
something.
Travis (22:53):
Oh, too.
Josh (22:53):
Redacted oh, but that's the thing is like they were
saying he didn't work there.
They're saying he didn't go toall these colleges.
Why would he have these jobs ifhe didn't go to college?
Have you seen?
Travis (23:06):
the movie.
Catch me if you can.
Yeah, that basically covers howyou can get away with it.
Yeah, where leo is just likevery good at manufacturing
documents and back then I mean,internet wasn't what it was.
We didn't have it as like aresource or a database.
And I'm not calling intoquestion Bob Lazar's credentials
or anything like that.
I'm just saying that it is veryreasonable to suspect that he
(23:27):
could have made this up backthen.
It is well within reason Tosuspect that he could have made
this up back then.
It is well within reason.
It was so much easier to getaway with this sort of like
fraud then because of the lackof internet and internet
accessibility, Like the processfor checking any sort of
resource that you notrecommendation.
What is it?
(23:47):
Where do you references?
When you were calling to checkon references, it was just that
it was a phone call.
You would make a phone call oryou could send and most people
didn't even call yeah, they justassumed you were.
Josh (23:59):
You know at your word like the woman that was doing sign
language for the white house inthat press conference.
Travis (24:05):
Yeah, because nobody there spoke sign language like
they had no idea.
Josh (24:09):
They're just like okay, she was there on live television
yeah she's nailing it and shewas just making hand signals.
That meant nothing.
Yeah, she just lied.
Yeah, and she lied and she gotaway with it.
I don't know how she got thatposition.
Maybe it was like on her resumeand she just lied about it.
Travis (24:24):
And they're like oh, our translator, or she had
mentioned like to her boss.
Maybe she worked at that agency, a government agency, and
mentioned to her boss that sheknows asl american sign language
and he was like, well, we need.
I assume it was a he, becauseit's government and because it's
a patriarchy.
Smash the patriarchy.
Just be nice to me because I'mon your side, I'm an ally, um,
and I think what had happened isshe had said she knows asl.
(24:48):
And the guy was like well, wehave a press conference coming
up, we need somebody tocommunicate this broad spectrum.
If you could be our ASL liaison, perfect.
Josh (24:59):
And she looked so nervous while she was doing it.
Travis (25:01):
Yeah, and then she did it and then it was just like it
was like she got caught.
It looked like she was castinga spell.
Yeah, I mean, if you don't knowASL and you don't.
Josh (25:09):
I wouldn't know what to do .
Travis (25:10):
You don't recognize that that's a language People are
speaking.
It does look like a wizardcasting a spell.
Take that out if it's offensive.
Josh (25:20):
I don't think it is Okay, because ASL doesn't look like
you're casting a spell, but shedid.
Travis (25:25):
She looked like she was casting a spell, but I'm saying
say you came to this planet andyou were watching somebody wave
their hands about, like that youhad an idea.
That's also okay.
So we also have to assume theyhave a working knowledge of
magic and what a wizard is right.
So these aliens come to thisplanet and the only thing
they're missing is knowing thatasl is a language.
So they look at that andthey're like oh shit, they have
(25:45):
magic.
Josh (25:45):
We have magic too or they spent a lot of time wondering
what it was, and then they.
Their only conclusion was itwas magic.
Travis (25:52):
Yeah, it was magic, anyway.
So yeah, she got fired formagic.
Josh (25:56):
It seems as though we derailed a little bit.
Travis (25:59):
But that's why that's, that's the fun of this.
So taking these little birdwalks it's.
Josh (26:04):
It's healthy to have a suspicion, not a suspicion.
Travis (26:08):
I'm a skeptic, you're a skeptic, I believe in aliens.
I just don't trust thecommunity.
I think the community is prettytoxic and very paranoid.
I'm not like a littlegovernment boy who believes
everything that the governmentsays, but I do have a certain
level of trust in what we'rehearing from the government.
And call me a whatever, atrusting rube, I don't care.
(26:30):
Well, this is about what we'renot hearing from the government.
Well, no, I mean, what we'retalking, we're addressing, is
the things that we know andthings that have been redacted.
That's what we're talking about.
And then the alien community asa whole.
Josh (26:38):
I don't know if you guys have a name.
That's a name.
That's a big stamp statement.
Travis (26:42):
Yeah, Is it a?
Do they have a name or theylike?
Do they call themselves alienbros, UFO?
Josh (26:57):
Just ufologists, okay, well, uh, yeah, it is a big
stamp statement saying that theentire community is crazy
conspiracists.
Travis (27:00):
I didn't say the entire community, I'm saying the
involvement, little as it is,with that community has been one
of paranoia honestly, there arekooky crazy people out there.
Josh (27:11):
Let's say, I saw bigfoot yeah, and well, that that's.
Travis (27:14):
The other thing is all of these conspiracy theorists.
They all get lumped into onebig pot.
And so if you believe inBigfoot Yeti, then you also
believe in Wendigo, you alsobelieve in skid walkers, you
also believe in aliens andleprechauns, extraterrestrials.
No, nobody believes inleprechauns Not anymore.
But they're all just paintedwith a big, broad brush.
(27:34):
And I'm sorry if I offended youguys by saying you're all
paranoid freaks, but that's myimpression with you you paranoid
freaks.
Josh (27:40):
That's the thing is there's a lot of people that are
not that as well.
Yeah, I mean, some of thesepeople are high officials,
ministers of defense.
I mean these are credible,credible people, and it took
even more courage for them tocome out because the government,
it has seemed as though they'rediscrediting anyone that talks
about it.
I mean anyone in the military.
(28:01):
If they talk about it, they'dbe relieved of their duty, this,
all these things, becausethey'd call them crazy.
Travis (28:06):
What I would say to that is cite your sources.
Like I want to know who thesegovernment officials are and why
they're fired.
Like I don't know anythingabout we'll get the ministry of
defense, ministry of the magicalarts, or whatever department
they work in or agency they workfor.
Josh (28:23):
Well, we'll get there, you'll learn this stuff and
we'll learn it together.
I don't know any of the namesright now, but I just know they
exist.
I've seen clips, I've seenfootage, I've listened to
podcasts about some of thesepeople.
Yeah, and I think they're justupset with the community when
there's people that are like thealiens.
They contact me every night andthey take me up and they put
things in me.
(28:43):
You know, like, yeah, you go toan alien convention.
A lot of the people there, moreso, fantasize about the idea of
aliens, or I don't know how.
They Sure they may believe it,or they could just be straight
lying, I don't know, but I dobelieve that a lot of these
people or it could have been anexperience they had.
Travis (28:59):
And then, because we are as human beings, we are
storytellers.
That's in our DNA and we liketo tell a good story.
And sometimes, if you tell astory long enough, adding to it,
as it were there's a lot ofbooks that we consider sacred
right now that, I would say,fall under the same definition.
(29:19):
As you're writing things overyears and you add things to it,
you start to really believe thatstory and it becomes.
It's not fiction for youanymore.
Now it is fact, this is part ofyour person.
Josh (29:33):
Like if say, you're not remembering the moment, you're
remembering your memory you'reremembering your, yeah, your,
the memory you created foryourself.
And if you remember it multipletimes, the memory is going to
change.
Travis (29:45):
And also, if you're telling somebody a story and
this is 100% true of me I lookat who I'm talking to and I
gauge my story based on theirreaction, so it can get a little
more outrageous based on whoI'm talking to and the reaction
I'm getting.
Josh (29:59):
Like when you said that there was five cops at your
house, but there was actuallyfour.
Travis (30:03):
There was only four.
I got raided today.
Yep, so very thematic.
I got raided today by thepolice.
Josh (30:08):
You said five and I had a blank expression and then you
said, actually, actually Ibetter pull back on this.
Five cops that ever show up.
It was four, yeah, and then Ihad a reaction oh, yeah, and
then I dove right into the story.
Travis (30:21):
But yeah, uh, long story short.
Thematically, I got rated todaybecause the cops knew that I
was going to be recording thispodcast that's not true.
He saw someone pouring oil on avehicle believe who you will.
Yeah, uh, no, but I did.
I.
I had a very weird experiencetoday as I was mowing my lawn.
Uh, there was a truck parked infront of our house.
(30:42):
A character, a white male,walked up, checked the doors on
the truck.
I finished mowing my lawn.
He came back and was holding athree gallon jug of oil.
He checked the the lock again,he dumped the oil on the
windshield and hood of the carand threw a lit cigarette on it
and then took off running downthe road.
(31:03):
You would think you would thinkmy first reaction would be to
call the police, but it was tosend my wife a message like, hey
, something really weirdhappened.
I could you please call me.
And she said she was gettinginto a meeting and so I had to
explain to her in text what Isaw and she's like yeah, you
should definitely call the cops.
So yeah, I had four cops showup in my house, crawling all
(31:24):
over this truck and askingquestions, and they agreed that
it was bizarro it is it's.
It was a weird thing.
It was a weird thing thathappened to me today before
recording this show.
I didn't get rated because Iwas recording a podcast about
aliens, or did.
Josh (31:37):
I or maybe.
So back to Bob Lazar.
Back to Bob.
They're trying to disqualify.
It seems as though thatanything and everything that
they were just trying to scrubhim from existence.
Even now, it's hard to findmuch information on him.
You go to his Wikipedia.
It's a very small Wikipediapage.
(31:57):
There's been over 500 editssince 2019.
And we went through the historyof the edits to see what was
there before and they had tonsof information on him.
All of that is gone and allthat remains are seething
entries Like angry.
That is gone and all thatremains are seething entries
(32:19):
like angry.
Lazar has no evidence of alienlife or technology, and his
claimed education and employmenthistory is replete with
fabrication.
Lazar is also a criminal.
He was convicted in 1980 forhis involvement in a
prostitution ring and began in2006 for selling illegal
chemicals.
As well as being dismissed byskeptics, lazar has been
renounced by some ufologists.
(32:39):
Journalist Ken Lane states alot of credible people have
looked at Lazar's story andrashly concluded that he made it
up.
Travis (32:47):
I think we need to get like an actual pronunciation on
Is it ufologists, is itufologists or is it ufologists,
ufologists, ufologist or is itufologist, aphologist,
aphologist?
I think aphologist is reallyfunny it just seems weird.
Josh (33:01):
It seems like someone angry wrote this about him and
it probably was.
Travis (33:07):
It probably was an angry person.
I mean, a lot of things aredone out of spite it's very
deliberate wording.
What it should say is Well,that's what we were talking
about earlier with the characterassassination.
Like they were after BobLazar's character, they tried to
discredit him and now I'm goingto start to sound like that
person.
But you know, just doing this alittle bit of reading, it does
seem like there's some characterdefamation that was trying to
(33:28):
happen, where they made light ofhis whistleblowing and made
heavy his involvement in aprostitution ring Like that's.
If you were to probably look uphis criminal history, it's that
Like prostitution ring.
When he got raided later withhis wife, it was claimed that it
was part of a murderinvestigation.
There was an element, thallium,that had leaked out and
(33:51):
contaminated the lab and somepeople died because of it.
So that's what they wereraiding his house for.
Josh (33:56):
And then in 2017, he got raided again looking for element
115.
Travis (34:02):
He said he stole.
Josh (34:03):
Yeah, which he said privately.
They turned off their phones,they were in the woods, and
that's.
The other thing is they've beenfollowing him.
In the Joe Rogan podcast I Ilistened to, he talked about how
they went after some of hisfriends and family and some of
his friends that were inmilitary or science.
Travis (34:20):
they let go as far as that goes, I would again.
I would say cite your sourceslike it's easy to say my friends
and family are being threatenedand just leave it like an
obscure allegation or claim likethat, but like if you're
allegation or claim like that,but like if you're going to make
something like that and be on avery big podcast, I think you
need to be more specific alittle bit.
(34:41):
You don't have to name names oranything like that, but give I
mean it was a two and a halfhour.
Josh (34:45):
I didn't listen.
Travis (34:45):
I didn't listen to the podcast.
I don't, I don't know.
I'm just saying cite yoursources.
Josh (35:02):
That is something that is Okay.
The other thing is he knew thenames of some of the generals
working and scientists workingat Area 51 that no pedestrian,
no one, should know, sure.
Travis (35:14):
Okay.
Josh (35:15):
The interviewer who got him the job at S4 was
interviewed and said he doesremember Bob interviewing him.
Travis (35:23):
Was he like?
Yeah man, stephen King cameinto my workplace and just
started asking me questions.
I thought it was for a book.
Josh (35:28):
The other thing is that he was kind of vindicated over
time because some of the thingshe talked about, which were
denied or just seemed fake, wereeventually right all along.
Yeah, just like the Los Alamoslab that he worked at.
This was later Okay, he was inthe phone book, the directory of
employees there, with otherscientists right.
(35:49):
Area 51 he said there was a topsecret facility in the nevada
desert called area 51 and, likeyou said, the government denied
its existence until 2013.
And then the hand scanner thathe talked about yeah, to
actually enter s4, they wouldlike read your bones or whatever
.
In this documentary theyactually showed an image of it
and Bob was like I never thoughtI'd see that again.
(36:10):
That is it.
That is exactly it.
And then element 115.
Yeah, he didn't know enoughabout it to seem credible, but
in 2003, a joint team ofRussians and American scientists
at the Joint Institute forNuclear Research in Russia
discovered the synthetic element.
So all the weirdness with hispast being washed, all the
(36:31):
defamation and then him beingright about all of these things,
plus all the otherwhistleblowers.
This guy was an earlywhistleblower.
All the newer whistleblowersare coming out, especially in
other countries that have high,high, high clearance, one of the
main whistleblowers right now.
He's the one that went in andinterviewed all the people with
(36:52):
top clearance.
Who is it?
I don't remember.
We're going to have to do anepisode on the current.
Travis (36:58):
Oh, you're going to dock some people.
Yeah, oh, ok.
Juicy episode.
Josh (37:04):
But that's the thing is like these people are the top
officials, highest clearance,and they're coming forward in
congress saying, hey, this isreal, the world needs to know
about it.
It is illegal what the unitedstates are doing, and congress
is like, yeah, it is.
We want all documentation thatthe military has now and we want
(37:24):
all whistleblowers to comeforward and let us know what
you've been doing and there'llbe no punishment.
But the a lot of allwhistleblowers to come forward
and let us know what you've beendoing and there'll be no
punishment.
But a lot of the whistleblowershave backed out because they
have been getting threats verysimilar to what Bob Lazar has
had.
So just everything together.
It just seems as though thereis something more than just the
facts that we know, and the onlyreason we have the facts that
(37:45):
we know are because of thewhistleblowers.
Right?
Travis (37:52):
If we didn't have the whistleblowers we we have.
The facts that we know arebecause of the whistleblowers,
right.
Josh (37:54):
If we didn't have the whistleblowers, we would have no
facts at all.
Right, well, that's, that'sfair in any business.
Travis (37:57):
The government said marijuana was bad.
Josh (37:57):
Yeah, and then you have, and then you try it and you're
like this isn't bad, yeah.
Travis (38:00):
And then you have cheech and chong saying like no, this
stuff is fucking good.
Yeah, this stuff fucking rules.
And then willie nelson comesout and like he's like america's
grandpa, like why would you,why would you try to discredit
willie nelson?
he says weed is good well, andnow it's legal in a lot of
places we're here everywhere,but where we live, in idaho you
know I didn't mean to invokecheech and chong by name, but
(38:21):
you can get weed delivered toevery other state in our union
except idaho.
They say that on their website.
They're like we'll deliveranywhere except to you, idaho
that's true, I've seen that yeah, it's hilarious and sad.
It's only funny if you don'tlive, if you don't live here at
this, but that's but that's thething is like the government
(38:43):
said it was wrong forever.
Josh (38:44):
And then they're like oh, never mind, it's not you know.
Travis (38:47):
So I mean, they have a right, and that's just no I mean
like, look, if we're gonna getinto like that sort of
conspiracy stuff I I love drugconspiracy information like yeah
, uh, marijuana.
There was a campaign to makemarijuana seem illegal for
various reasons, which we're notgoing to go into that right now
because this isn't that's notthe point of this podcast.
But they made a show, a movie,reefer madness.
(39:09):
That was a a scare tactic yeah,the scare tactic to keep people
from smoking weed, which wasthen parodied in a musical later
, where they do very similarcrazy shenanigans in the movie
musical.
To kind of juxtapose againstthe original reefer madness,
that was made to like makepeople afraid of marijuana.
And it's marijuana like youcould smoke the shit out of that
(39:30):
.
You're either gonna smokeyourself sober or smoke yourself
passed out like, uh, marijuanayou.
There are no records of anybodyoverdoing on marijuana.
Josh (39:38):
Usually it's in conjunction with another drug
just so listeners know, travisand I actually don't smoke
marijuana no, I don't.
Travis (39:44):
It makes me very weird in my brain same with me I get
panic attacks.
Josh (39:48):
Yeah, I get panic attacks.
Travis (39:49):
I get panic attacks.
I used to love it.
It was my favorite thing to dobefore cleaning my house, but I
can't do it.
It gives me so much anxiety.
Josh (39:56):
But it is an interesting history of the drug.
I mean, I've heard thatlobbyists went against it
because of big paper.
Travis (40:03):
There are a lot of reasons.
Like paper didn't like becausehemp was a side product of
marijuana or a sister plant ofmarijuana and that was going to
take away from like paper andany sort of wood product.
Josh (40:15):
Yeah, there's all these crazy things.
Yeah, it just lets you knowthat the government isn't always
reliable.
Travis (40:20):
No, it's not.
Business is not always reliable.
It's not necessarily thegovernment.
I think the government is, forthe most part, acting on behalf
of the American people.
But there are those few ingovernment that have a lot of
power and get that power throughbig business, through lobbying
efforts, and they become richand powerful because of those.
(40:41):
But there are people ingovernment that do have the
people's best interests at heart, but those people are not
accepting big donations, they'renot accepting a lot of outside
money and are doing a lot ofgrassroots fundraising.
When you're looking at likegrassroots fundraising versus
like Silicon Valley funding, youjust get squished.
Yeah, you get squished like alittle bug.
Josh (41:01):
The reason whistleblowers are so important is we were
talking about how, even youstill have the skewed view,
skeptic, of the community I amthe scully of this podcast.
Travis (41:15):
Right, x files.
Yeah, from x files you'remolder, or my you're.
Josh (41:19):
You're the david dacovany I'll be him, yeah, great he's a
handsome yeah, handsome sexaddict.
I was gonna say hand model butthe thing is reference with a
lot of these prominentwhistleblowers coming out and a
lot of the documentaries and alot of videos being released
from military actual militaryvideo and Congress actually
(41:43):
taking notice and calling forthis information to come forward
.
It's making it as though thiscommunity isn't as crazy as they
have seemed in the past or thatthe government has made them
seem.
It's vindicating for a lot ofthese people who have been
called crazy, because I've knownmultiple people who have seen
strange phenomenon and differentthings, but they don't like
(42:05):
talking about it because of thestigma around the culture that
was created by the government, Ibelieve.
Travis (42:11):
Okay, sure, I think that there's a lot of phenomena that
people see, and they don't havethe language to describe what
they're seeing.
So they're just like regularpeople like me and you who might
see something up in the cosmos,up in the heavens, and they
don't know how to describe whatan asteroid is or, you know, a
satellite is, or slight shiftsin weather or whatever.
(42:32):
And so there are things thatnaturally occur here that people
just don't have the experiencewith.
And when they see somethinglike a lightning ball I don't
know if you've seen those before, but they're just like these
little balls of lightning thataren't grounded and they just
float around.
Josh (42:47):
I had seen terribly dangerous.
I've seen that in the house I'min right now.
Travis (42:51):
Yeah, those are incredibly dangerous.
Josh (42:53):
So Jordan and I both saw it.
We were sitting on the couchand we both saw it in our
peripherals yeah, and when welooked it was gone.
Travis (43:02):
If you don't have an understanding of that, you could
attribute that to anextraterrestrial phenomenon.
Yeah Right, like, if you don'thave the language or the
experience, then that is.
It's otherworldly to see that.
Josh (43:13):
Yeah, it freaked us out, for sure, and we didn't know and
we did research and figured outwhat it was.
Travis (43:19):
Yeah, I do want to get I don't know this is at the end
of the podcast, so me saying getahead of it what this podcast
is about.
What it is about for me is Iwant to gain an understanding of
something that I don'tunderstand or I don't have a lot
of knowledge of, and this is myway of doing it.
I primarily like talking aboutmovies, and I have a separate
(43:40):
podcast where I get theopportunity to do that, but I
also really love information,and this is something that was
near and dear to my friend, josh, and I really am interested in
it, and so that is my interestin this podcast.
I am looking forward tolearning as much about aliens,
phenomena, flying saucers, area51.
(44:00):
Not so interested in like theBob Lazar of it all, necessarily
, but I am very interested inlike cult of personality, and I
think Bob Lazar has a cult ofpersonality.
I think that there's a hugefollowing and that people get
into ufology ufology because ofBob Lazar, not that he's
charismatic, but because of thebuzz around him.
I guess, if it were I don'tknow if that's the right word,
but Well, and also thebizarreness he brings a lot of.
(44:23):
Yeah, his milkshake, as it were,brings a lot of boys to the
yard.
Josh (44:27):
Yeah, I'm learning and getting all this info too.
I appreciate that you're comingat it the way you are with-.
Hey I appreciate you too, josh.
No, I appreciate that you'recoming at it the way you are by
questioning everything.
I mean that's important.
I'm never going to denysomeone's question.
I'm eager and excited to learnjust as much as you are, but I'm
(44:47):
more prone to believe with justthe information that I have,
sure, which is awesome.
I want to encourage anyonelistening to do your own
research.
Don't just listen to what we'resaying.
Travis (45:00):
No, no, no, no.
Listen to what we're saying.
Yes, please listen.
In compliment to this nonsense.
There are resources out therefor you guys to look up.
Josh (45:09):
Yeah, we want you to learn about Babalazar and form your
own opinions.
Travis (45:14):
And, fortunately for us, unfortunately for you we don't
have an email set up just yet,so we can say whatever we want,
Consequence free.
Haha, suck it, nerds With thatwe do have a quiz.
Josh (45:27):
So next episode we're going to talk about the roswell
incident, one of the yeah, oneof the most groundbreaking, most
popular incident of incidencesif you don't know anything about
aliens, you probably have avery tertiary knowledge of
roswell and what roswell is, thetitular roswell incident and
(45:48):
we're going to get into it.
Travis (45:49):
And we will talk about next week.
Josh (45:51):
There was whistleblowers in that as well.
Travis (45:53):
Okay, I feel like we said whistleblowers a lot in
this episode.
Josh (45:56):
Well, they're important.
So for a kind of a baseline ofwhere we're at with Roswell, we
are going to do a quiz to seewhat we each know.
Travis (46:05):
Get ready for disappointment.
Disappointment, if you'reputting all of your eggs in my
basket.
Not gonna be, not gonna be fun.
I, oh boy, you want, you wantto take the first one like ask
you I'll ask you, okay.
No, you ask me.
You ask me because I have theadvantage of seeing all the
questions, just not knowing anyof the uh, the answers okay, we
(46:26):
want to make yourself look asgood as possible.
No, I want to get okay.
Yeah, I want all the easyquestions.
We were given a littlequalifier before we started.
Don't click any of the thingsbecause it may not give us a
real-time answer.
I think we have to submit tofind what our.
But go ahead, josh, take itaway.
Josh (46:45):
So I'm going to ask you the first question.
Yeah, all right.
Question one for Travis when isRoswell, is it?
Travis (46:56):
Nevada, Arizona, Texas or New Mexico, it is in the
great state of Nevada.
Final answer, home of sin andluxury.
Josh (47:05):
Okay.
Travis (47:06):
I don't know if it's luxury.
Josh (47:11):
It's really hot in nevada.
Great answer.
Do you want to ask me?
Travis (47:13):
the next one.
Yeah, hold on.
Before we get to this, we willsubmit our answers, so we will
have a full summary of this atthe end of the quiz.
So, josh, what year did theroswell ufo incident occur?
Was it the year 1917, 1947,1967 or 1987?
Josh (47:34):
I believe it was 1947.
Okay, go ahead and ask me thenext question what was initially
reported in the newspaper tohave been found at roswell I
believe that was a weatherballoon.
They are a weather balloon.
Oh, a meteorite, a flying discor a military aircraft, and so
(47:55):
you say weather balloon I saiduh, weather balloon, um yeah
okay okay, josh.
Travis (48:02):
uh, what did the military claim was actually
found at the Roswell site?
Was it an experimental aircraft, a Soviet spy device, a weather
balloon, a school scienceproject?
Josh (48:15):
A weather balloon.
Okay, all right.
What secret military projectwas the instant blamed on?
Oh Jesus Project, blue BookProject, mogul Project.
Travis (48:27):
Sign or Project Grudge, I don't know.
I don't know.
Uh, I'm gonna guess, because itseems like there was so much
and this is way off base.
I'm gonna say project grudge,um, but only because it seemed
like somebody had an axe togrind against Bob Lazar.
Okay, okay, josh, yes, whatelse is said to have been found
(48:52):
in the Roswell debris?
Was it alien bodies,unidentified plants, advanced
weapons or alien hieroglyphics?
Josh (49:04):
The answer is alien bodies .
Alien bodies.
Travis (49:07):
Okay, hit submit, new Mexico.
I was wrong.
So right off the bat I waswrong, and it continued on.
After that.
Josh got his right 1947.
I got my what was initially areport in the newspapers to have
been found at Roswell as aweather balloon.
That's wrong.
It was a flying disc.
Josh (49:28):
It was redone.
Well, we'll get about thatlater.
Travis (49:31):
Josh's question what did the military claim was actually
found at Roswell was a weatherballoon.
So that's where they changed it.
That's what I had thought.
So Josh got his right.
What secret military projectwas the incident blamed on?
I said Project Grudge, wrongProject Mogul on.
I said project grudge, wrongproject mogul.
And then, of course, the lastquestion what else is said to
(49:52):
have been found in the roswelldebris?
Josh correctly answered alienbody.
So 100 to josh, zero percent tome I wouldn't have gotten the
project one correct.
All the other ones I knew welluh, next time speak up, josh, I
would have gotten the aliens oneright I, I would have gotten
weather balloons.
Josh (50:06):
Right, that's true.
Travis (50:08):
You're the one that picked the order so that you'd
look good, uh, I know I'm anidiot, I uh I'm, I'm a legal
idiot well, cool, now we knowwho knows what going into our
roswell episode.
I know nothing, josh knows.
Uh, quite a bit it's exciting.
Josh (50:24):
There's a lot to get into it with it okay, well, uh, how
do we end this josh?
Travis (50:28):
what do we do?
Thanks for coming to the show.
Thanks for listening.
I appreciate your time.
I love you.
You crazy paranoid freaks, keeplistening.
Grow with us, grow as we grow.
This show is a grower, not ashower.
Josh (50:42):
Yes, I respect all of you in this fine community You're
going to get arrested forpandering, I could.
Travis (50:48):
Hopefully that's what's going to happen, you're going to
get arrested.
You're going to get a raid inhere for pandering.
Josh (50:52):
I'm just excited to do this show and as we learn and
grow, you can be on this journeywith us.
If you're in the same boat asus, where you're interested but
you don't know a lot, maybe ourlittle show will ease you into
it, just like it is us.
Sure, yep, all right.
Thanks for listening.
Okay, bye.
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