October 10, 2025 • 34 mins
A light in the sky isn’t the same as a missing hour of your life—and lumping them together is why the UFO conversation keeps spinning its wheels. We take a clear, grounded walk through the close encounter scale, from Hynek’s original CE1–CE3 to abductions (CE4) and human‑initiated contact (CE5), and show how a shared vocabulary can turn wild stories into workable data. No hype, no hand‑waving—just definitions, cases, and why structure matters.
We start with the roots: Dr. J. Allen Hynek, the astronomer who tried to bring scientific rigor to UFO reports and unexpectedly gave Hollywood its most famous title. From there, we break down each category. CE1 is a close visual sighting—think the Phoenix Lights in 1997, a massive, silent V over Arizona seen by thousands. CE2 adds physical effects: scorched ground, dead batteries, animals acting off; the Rendlesham Forest incident remains a thorny, compelling example. CE3 steps into stranger territory—entities near craft—like the Ariel School encounter, where students described tall, black‑suited beings in daylight. CE4 dives into abductions and altered reality, where memory, missing time, and medical motifs demand stricter methods and steadier skepticism; we unpack the unsettling Antonio Villas Boas file to show how to sort the checkable from the purely narrative. Finally, CE5 reframes the question: can humans initiate contact? We get into meditation protocols, Dr. Steven Greer’s app, and groups like Skywatcher blending intention with signaling tech and public data claims.
Along the way, we talk about why categories don’t “prove” anything—but they do sharpen questions, reduce arguments from vibes, and help separate experience from evidence. We map past episodes onto the scale, flag the psychological cost of moving up the ladder, and acknowledge why some people invite the unknown while others slam the door. If you’ve ever wanted a practical way to think about UFOs—one that respects witnesses and still asks for timestamps, logs, and controls—this is your field guide.
Enjoy the conversation? Follow, share with a curious friend, and text us your stories via the fan mail link in the episode description. Tell us: which CE feels most plausible to you, and why?
Text us something cool or fun and we'll read it on the show!!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh (00:03):
Aliens?
Aliens.
Aliens.
Travis (00:07):
Yes.
But maybe no.
Well, well, well, look who itis.
Back for another round ofaliens, yes, but maybe no with
Josh and Travis.
(00:27):
I'm Travis.
I'm Josh.
And this is an otherworldlypodcast as ambiguous as our
title.
So good job.
Yeah, thanks.
That wasn't bad.
Yeah.
How have you been?
Josh (00:41):
Good.
Really good, yeah.
I was not studying for this.
I did watch stuff.
Travis (00:46):
Oh, you did?
Josh (00:46):
For this episode, yeah.
Travis (00:48):
What did you watch?
Josh (00:49):
Uh the Skywatcher videos.
Travis (00:51):
Okay.
Okay.
Josh (00:51):
That's true.
Basically, I didn't watchmovies.
Travis (00:54):
Those are your new guys.
Josh (00:55):
Yeah, they are.
Skywatcher.
Travis (00:57):
But we'll get into that later.
Oh boy.
Okay.
Josh (01:00):
I don't remember what we talked about last time.
This happens every time.
Travis (01:03):
Uh Rendelsham Forest.
No, that was Uh Men in Black?
No.
Fuck.
Josh (01:08):
No.
Travis (01:10):
I have no idea.
Ley lines?
Josh (01:12):
Yeah.
Travis (01:12):
Ley lines.
Is that it?
Yeah.
He's gonna say FlatwoodsMonster?
No.
Cryptids?
It was Ley Lines.
Okay.
That good old black magic.
Why do I keep forgetting?
You keep forgetting too.
Oh, hell yeah.
What's going on?
We're just too busy.
I don't know.
It's also kind of funny.
It adds sore charm.
Josh (01:29):
Yeah, I guess so.
It's like we learn everythingand then we just forget about
it.
Travis (01:32):
Then just purge it.
Yeah.
It's gone.
Yeah.
Josh (01:34):
It's probably why we're not experts.
Travis (01:36):
Oh man.
Well, there's a probably anumber of reasons why we're not
experts.
Josh (01:39):
That's true.
So yeah, today it's a littledifferent just because we're not
debating anything, or we're notgoing to end this with our
final thoughts because this isjust information.
Yeah.
Just an information episode.
Kind of a system set up sopeople can document correctly.
Travis (01:58):
Yeah.
So we're talking about whatconstitutes a close encounter,
right?
And there are fiveclassifications, right?
Yeah of what a close encounteris.
Six, though, if you're nasty.
Josh (02:10):
Yeah.
It doesn't try to explain theunexplained, it categorizes it.
Travis (02:13):
Right.
Which is handy.
Josh (02:14):
Yeah.
So I if I had a weirdencounter, I could just say, hey
man, I had a encounter numberblank.
Travis (02:21):
I had a close encounter of the first kind.
Josh (02:23):
Yeah.
Travis (02:24):
Or the second kind.
Josh (02:25):
Yeah.
We're just gonna go through andI mean, honestly, this is more
so for us so that we canunderstand more.
Yeah.
Because this is important forus to know, and we've been doing
these episodes and not knowingthis system put in place.
And I hope you guys can learnsomething as we learn.
Travis (02:43):
Yeah.
Also plays, you know, a bigrole in Hollywood.
We'll get into this in a littlebit.
Josh (02:48):
Yeah, it's iconic.
I mean, I think Hollywood isthe only reason I've heard of
this word.
Travis (02:53):
Yeah.
Thanks, Stevie Spiels.
Stevie Spees.
Mm-hmm.
Josh (02:56):
Yeah.
Travis (02:56):
With uh close encounters of the third kind.
The third kind, correct mundodude.
Josh (03:02):
But he stole the idea.
Travis (03:03):
Bring a little Bart Simpson into the podcast.
Josh (03:05):
Yeah.
Travis (03:05):
He stole it.
Yeah, he stole it, right?
Uh wait, what do you mean?
Josh (03:09):
It was he didn't really steal it.
But I mean, he used a realthing to make the movie.
Travis (03:13):
He used uh the system put in place.
Well, he used Jay AllenHeineck's work.
Uh excuse me, it's Doctor.
Doc, okay.
I mean, I'm I'm pretty close.
I was pretty close with thelate Jay Allen.
Just call him Jay.
I just call him Jay.
Yeah.
I get that.
I don't know what it stood forthough.
Jiminy.
I think you're right.
Josh (03:33):
Or does that start with G?
Travis (03:34):
It can start with a J.
Jiminy Cricket starts with a J.
Josh (03:36):
Oh, okay, good.
Travis (03:37):
Yeah.
Josh (03:39):
Gimini.
Travis (03:40):
Uh-huh.
Josh (03:40):
But yeah, Jay Allen Heinek, Dr.
Jay Allen Heineck, was arespected astronomer.
And he consulted to the U.S.
Air Force and a scientist whobegan his career debunking UFO
sighting.
So he was kind of My kind ofguy.
Yeah, he was the guy thatpurposely was trying to say this
isn't real.
Travis (03:57):
Yeah.
Josh (03:57):
And then by the end of his life, he was one of the most
vocal advocates for taking thephenomenon seriously.
So something or some thingschanged his mind.
Something.
Something.
Something in it.
Little cockney.
In 1972, he published his bookcalled The UFO Experience, a
scientific inquiry.
And in it, he tried to dosomething that honestly very few
(04:19):
people in the UFO world weretrying to do at the time.
And that was bring structureand scientific rigor to chaos.
Okay.
And that's when he introduced aclassification system that
broke sightings and encountersinto categories, each one based
on how close you were to thephenomenon and what exactly you
experienced.
Travis (04:35):
Yeah.
So we got a close encounter ofthe first kind.
Josh (04:37):
I like to call that a CE one.
Travis (04:39):
Oh God.
Here we go.
That's just going to make itthere's so many acronyms and
abbreviations in this.
It's so confusing.
So C E one could mean closeencounter one, or it could mean
can't exist one.
Or whatever.
I don't know.
I'm just there's just too many.
It gets really confusing.
Josh (04:55):
Well, we're pretty close, so I uh I feel like I can
abbreviate it.
Travis (04:59):
With the doctor?
Yeah.
Or with the close encounter.
With the work, yeah.
Okay.
So that's uh you see a UFO.
It's close within about 500feet.
No physical evidence, it's justdeciding.
Josh (05:10):
Yeah.
Travis (05:10):
Okay.
Josh (05:11):
And then there's the second kind.
Yeah.
C E2.
Travis (05:14):
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Yep.
Uh C E2.
And that's where you getphysical effects like scorched
grass, interference withelectronics, weird animal
behavior.
So that's seeing evidence ofsomething, maybe otherworldly.
Josh (05:26):
I hate the weird animal things.
Travis (05:28):
I don't like it.
Josh (05:28):
Yeah.
Travis (05:29):
I don't like it.
Josh (05:29):
And he came up with the third kind.
Travis (05:32):
Yeah.
And that's you see beings, notjust lights in the sky, but
occupants of these ships.
Things with forms, shapes,maybe even faces, which is how,
spoiler alert, if you haven'tseen fuck what is now a
40-year-old or 50-year-oldmovie.
Yeah.
Close Encounters of the ThirdKind came out in 77.
Jeez.
At the end, as RichardDreifen's character gets on the
(05:53):
ship, the alien smiles.
Josh (05:55):
Oh, geez.
Really nice.
I'm already creeped.
I'm creeped out.
Travis (05:58):
It's actually it's a really sweet ending.
And Steven Spielberg, when hewas making that movie, somebody
on his crew, or a couple ofpeople on his crew, claimed to
have had an experience, but hewas this was on like their B
team.
And Steven has always wanted tohave he believes in aliens like
I do, but has always wanted tohave like an experience.
(06:20):
And he keeps missing them justby like being busy.
Yeah, just by being busy.
Josh (06:24):
Oh man.
That's a bummer.
Like if someone truly wants it,they should get it.
That's what I think.
Travis (06:29):
So at the time, like alien movies, depictions of
aliens have always been likethis violent, you know, group of
beings that are coming here totake over, right?
Like a lot of this 50 sci-fistuff.
And this was trying to turnthat narrative and treating them
as more benevolent beings whoare maybe here to enhance the
human existence.
I hope.
So it was just a really niceending.
Josh (06:51):
Yeah.
Kind of different than whatHollywood has been doing.
Travis (06:54):
There's an abduction that happens that's really
terrifying in that.
Josh (06:56):
Well, then I'm out.
Travis (06:57):
The kid gets taken.
Josh (06:58):
I don't like that.
Two worse things.
Travis (07:00):
No, it is it's terrifying.
It's very scary.
Josh (07:04):
So that's what Dr.
Heinek did.
He did these three and thenstopped.
Travis (07:09):
Yeah.
Josh (07:09):
But uFology progressed and others expanded to scale.
Travis (07:13):
So wait, you're telling me there's more?
There's more.
But wait.
But wait.
There's more.
Josh (07:19):
Jacques Valet introduced Close Encounters of the Fourth
Kind, involving abductions oraltered states of reality in his
book Confrontations (07:27):
a Scientist Search for Alien
Contact.
Travis (07:30):
Okay.
Jacques Vallet had an analog inClose Encounters of the Third
Kind played by FrancoisTruffaut, I think his name is a
French director and an actor.
So he was playing like acinematic version of Jacques
Vallet.
I can't remember what hisFrancois's character's name was.
Oh, okay.
We get Bob Balaban, who waslike the interpreter for
(07:51):
Francois's character, BobBalaban, who does a lot of Wes
Anderson stuff.
Josh (07:54):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I know what you're talkingabout.
Travis (07:57):
There's a lot of Christopher Guest stuff as well.
Josh (07:59):
And then there's Dr.
Stephen Greer.
He founded the Center for Studyof Extraterrestrial
Intelligence, or C SETI,advocating for human-initiated
contact.
Travis (08:08):
Now is this the same?
Is this like different fromSETI?
Josh (08:11):
Yes.
Travis (08:11):
Oh man.
So this is what I'm talkingabout.
Yeah, there's a lot.
Tighten up, you guys.
You guys need to come togetherand figure out your acronyms.
Josh (08:19):
Yeah.
C SETI is advocating forhuman-initiated contact and
communication withextraterrestrial life, which he
terms close encounters of thefifth kind.
So there's five.
I'm sure there will be more.
Oh boy.
Depends on where you go.
Travis (08:35):
I mean, we talked about like there's a sixth kind, but
it's not it's nothing that'sdocumented and nobody takes
seriously.
But that involves babies.
Yep.
Make them babies.
Uh as we say at our house, theold S-word.
Slop.
Yeah.
Yep.
The aliens just feed you from abig ladle, kind of like
Napoleon Dynamite feeds hisllama in the movie.
Josh (08:57):
Splashes everywhere.
Travis (08:58):
Yeah.
Come on, Tina, you fat lard.
Come get your dinner.
Josh (09:02):
So we have talked about a lot of these.
So when we were going throughwhen I was learning about these,
I was like, oh, that's likethis.
That's this.
So easy to categorize now.
Look at me.
I'm a categorizer.
So for the CE1, Close Encounterone, is a visual sighting,
which we did with the Phoenixflights.
And that happened in 97.
It's a massive V-shaped objectseen by thousands across
(09:24):
Arizona.
It lasted for hours, minimalsound and unexplained still
today.
Travis (09:29):
So then you get physical effects.
An example of that would be theRendelsham Forrest incident,
where multiple U.S.
Air Force members reportedstrange lights, physical
impressions on the ground,malfunctioning equipment.
Josh (09:40):
Yeah.
And in that episode, we both Noanimal stuff though.
No.
No, but these are just some ofthe bigger famous ones.
Sure.
Travis (09:47):
And the ones we've talked about on this show.
Josh (09:48):
Yeah.
And I just want to go on therecord.
My viewpoint at the end of thatepisode has changed personally.
Travis (09:54):
Oh my God.
This is wild.
Josh (09:56):
Yeah.
I uh I've done some moreresearch on Rendlesham, the
Rendlesham Forest incident, andI now believe that something
happened.
Maybe not aliens, I don't know.
Travis (10:07):
But breaking news.
Josh changes his opinion.
Josh (10:10):
Yeah.
Travis (10:10):
Stay tuned to this podcast for more on that.
Josh (10:13):
Yeah, the one that really did it was Josh Gates did an
episode on it and they turnedthe lighthouse back on because
it isn't functioning anymore.
Is that Josh Barolin's brother?
No.
Travis (10:23):
And your brother?
Josh (10:24):
No.
Travis (10:25):
Not everyone named Josh is related.
All Josh has I think so.
I don't I don't think that'sright.
Josh (10:29):
No.
Yeah, he got a light bulb andgot that lighthouse running
again and stood in the samespace, and it is very obviously
not something that you canmistake for something right
above you in the air.
It's not.
And that just kind of I waslike, oh man.
Because that was my thought.
Anyways, I just want to do aPSA.
Travis (10:51):
Okay.
Congratulations on youropen-mindedness.
Josh (10:55):
Yeah.
But that was one.
They had the triangle marks.
So that was physical evidence.
Mm-hmm.
They had scorch marks on thetrees.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then there's closeencounters of the third kind,
which is entities observed.
And that would be the aerialschool.
Travis (11:11):
Okay.
Josh (11:11):
That was 1994.
A group of students reportedseeing tall black creatures
emerge from the craft in theschoolyard.
Travis (11:17):
We don't need to go back down that.
Josh (11:19):
No.
I don't want to get you angry.
Travis (11:21):
Just go back and listen to that episode.
Yeah.
Josh (11:24):
It's a good one.
I like that one.
Travis (11:25):
Yeah.
And then we've got CloseEncounter of the Fourth Kind,
which is abduction or havingyour reality altered.
So an example of that is theTravis Walton abduction and the
Betty and Barney Hill abduction.
And that's where you experiencea loss of time and reported
being taken by alien beings andreturned home.
Josh (11:44):
The spookiest of the encounters, I would think.
Travis (11:46):
Uh yeah, because what that spaceship does.
Josh (11:50):
Yeah.
Travis (11:50):
What happens on that thing?
Josh (11:52):
We don't know.
Travis (11:52):
Mm-hmm.
Josh (11:53):
And that's the hard one.
That's the one that a lot ofpeople I don't know.
It just seems overwhelminglyclose encounters of the fourth
kind kind of that faces the mostcriticism.
And it's because it's usuallyfirsthand experiences, which you
love.
Love it.
And people just they go crazywith it.
They're overly fantastical andor outright hoaxes sometimes.
(12:14):
You know, it's it would be easyfor you to show up here and be
like, dude, I got abducted lastnight, and just have my story
straight and it's explain it.
No one can argue with me.
You know, it's just yeah, it'swhat I say.
But yeah, some of them arecrazy.
And in our notes, it says, likethis one, and we don't know
what that means, but ourresearcher, Jordan, gave us an
(12:35):
envelope.
Travis (12:36):
Oh my god.
Okay.
Josh (12:37):
And it says, do not open until instructed to do so.
So do you want me to open it ordo you want to open it?
Travis (12:43):
Uh I don't know.
I'm afraid of what it says inthere.
Josh (12:46):
I and what if whoever opens it doesn't read it?
Travis (12:49):
We just showed up and there was an envelope on the
table.
Josh (12:51):
Yeah, we've been eyeing it this whole time we've been
recording.
Travis (12:54):
Mm-hmm.
Josh (12:54):
Really nice penmanship, a little smiley face on there.
Travis (12:57):
Oh, great.
That's how we get lured in.
Josh (12:59):
I don't think that's her smiley face, though.
I think someone else did asmiley face on here, one of my
kids.
Okay.
Well, I'll open it since you'regonna be coward.
I am.
Travis (13:10):
Well, you move the envelope right in front of you.
Josh (13:13):
Okay.
Nice font already.
Travis (13:16):
Oh, comics and your favorite.
unknown (13:18):
Yeah.
Josh (13:19):
And it's the only font I can read in.
Travis (13:21):
Yeah.
Josh (13:21):
Okay.
So this will be an example of aclose encounter of the fourth
kind.
This is the abduction ofAntonio Villas Boas.
Researcher notes highlightedsays buckle up.
So Antonio Villas Boas, a23-year-old Brazilian farmer,
reported being abducted byaliens on October 16, 1957.
(13:42):
While working at night, he sawa red light in the sky that
descended and landed nearby.
He tried to flee but was seizedby a 1.5 meter or five foot
tall humanoid who was wearinggray coveralls and a helmet.
Its eyes were small and blue,and instead of speech, it made
noises like barks or yelps.
Three similar beings thenjoined the first in subduing
(14:04):
Boas, and they dragged himinside their craft.
Once inside the craft, Boassaid that he was stripped of his
clothes and covered from headto toe with a strange gel.
He was then led into a largesemicircular room through a
doorway that had strange redsymbols written over it.
Boas claimed that he was ableto memorize these symbols and
later reproduce them forinvestigators.
(14:25):
In this room, the beings tooksamples of Boas' blood from his
chin.
After this, he was then takento a third room and left alone
for around half an hour.
During this time, some kind ofgas was pumped in the room which
made Boas become violently ill.
Shortly after this, Boasclaimed that he was joined in
the room by another humanoid.
This one, however, was female,very attractive and naked.
(14:47):
She was the same height as theother beings he had encountered,
with a small pointed chin andlarge blue cat like eyes.
The hair on her head was longand white, somewhat like a
platinum blonde, but herunderarm and pubic hair were
bright red.
What Boas said he was stronglyattracted to the woman, and the
two had sexual intercourse.
Travis (15:07):
Hell yeah.
Josh (15:08):
Get it.
During this act, Boas notedthat the female did not kiss him
but instead nipped him on thechin.
When it was all over, thefemale smiled at Boas, rubbed
her belly, and gestured upwards.
Boas took this to mean that shewas going to raise their child
in space.
The female seemed relieved thattheir task was over.
Oh it wasn't as good as hethought.
(15:29):
And Boas himself said that hefelt angered by the situation
because he felt as though he hadbeen a little more than a good
stallion for the humanoids.
Boas said he was given back hisclothes and taken on a tour of
the ship.
He tried to take a clock-likedevice, but was caught and
escorted off.
The ship glowed brightly as ittook off.
Four hours had passed when hereturned home.
(15:51):
Okay.
Well, we talked about it.
So I guess an encounter wouldbe maybe the six would mean the
fourth.
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
But that is probably someone'sfantasy, uh, not mine.
Travis (16:06):
Platinum hair and red hair everywhere else.
Yeah, that's bonkers.
Sounds like a fever dream.
Josh (16:13):
I mean, yeah.
This very well could have man,I d I want to do more research
on that.
At some point, I will.
Travis (16:19):
But good for him.
A good stallion.
He was a good stallion.
For the human race.
Josh (16:23):
Yeah, I'm curious on like if some of the things he said
lines up with some other thingsthat are real.
Yeah, it's just bonkers.
I just don't.
And there's probably a wholebunch of stuff.
I mean, we've only reallyresearched the episodes that
we've done.
Travis (16:36):
I want to know more about the ship.
He just said, yeah, and then Igot a tour of the ship, but it
was mostly like, I had thiscrazy sexual experience.
Josh (16:43):
I mean, that was definitely the highlight,
probably.
Travis (16:46):
And I was very good at my job, but she was not very
happy.
But I was good.
Josh (16:50):
I wonder if the gases that were pumped in made him
attracted to her.
Like if it was some kind oflike pheromone.
I don't know.
That'd be interesting.
Well, crazy.
Do you think that exists?
I mean, if it were, the alienswould have it, right?
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
Travis (17:06):
And that's how we got Viagra.
Josh (17:08):
Yep.
Travis (17:08):
Space drugs.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Hens made their entire careeroff of this experience.
unknown (17:12):
Yeah.
Josh (17:13):
Um, well, that's a wacky story.
And I don't know if it's trueor not.
That's why I want to do morelike what were the symbols he
said he saw?
And if you could rememberthose, yeah.
Does he remember everythingabout it?
Yeah.
I don't know.
Well, that'll be a littlepersonal deep dive for me.
So that was four.
That was another crazy exampleof four.
Five is human-initiatedcontact.
(17:35):
So meditation-based contact.
Stephen Greer, founder of CSETI, promotes meditation-based
contact and started an appcalled CE5 Contact.
According to Greer, to engagewith extraterrestrial beings,
you'll need a few keyingredients: a sincere heart, a
clear intention, and aconnection to one mind
consciousness.
(17:55):
Almost sounds like trying tobelieve in magic.
Travis (17:58):
It does.
A pure heart.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then you have to buy anapp.
unknown (18:03):
Yeah.
Travis (18:03):
Which is funny.
He's like, you can do all thesethings, and that's great.
But there's one final thing.
You're not going to be able todo this without.
And it just so happens thatI've created this app.
Josh (18:12):
Yeah.
A CE5 app, like CE5 contact onthe app store, and it's for
finding local groups andresources.
So according to the CE5handbook, here's a little more
detailed breakdown.
So the heart.
This is what you need.
Travis (18:27):
You need a heart.
Josh (18:28):
You need a heart.
You need to feel things withthose hearts.
Travis (18:31):
Yeah.
And we're talking about anactual heart, right?
You need to have an actualheart.
Mm-hmm.
Josh (18:35):
Yeah, you need to be alive.
Travis (18:36):
Yeah.
Okay.
Good.
Josh (18:38):
You have to have sincerity, a genuine desire to
connect with benevolentextraterrestrial civilization,
and that's crucial.
Openness, be receptive to thepossibility of encountering and
interacting withextraterrestrial beings.
Right.
This sounds like beinghypnotized.
Yeah, it kind of reminds me oflike the remote viewing kind of
thing, like how to remote viewat home, but like a shallower
(19:01):
version.
So the second of this handbookbreakdown is the intention.
So you need a clear purpose,formulate a clear intention for
the contact, such as seekinginformation, understanding the
universe, or establishing apeaceful relationship.
And you need specific focus.
Focus your intention on thedesired outcome of the
encounter.
(19:21):
And then the connection.
Intention setting is alsoimportant because you need to
use techniques like meditationand positive affirmations to set
the intention for the contact.
And then there's the equipment.
Travis (19:41):
So the equipment, these are all the things you need:
headphones, comfortable clothes,or a blanket.
Consider bringing items like anotebook, a pen, a camera,
flashlight, and any other toolsyou feel comfortable using in
the field, like an eye mask.
So you can kind of depriveyourself.
Josh (19:56):
Zen out.
Travis (19:57):
Yeah.
Deprive yourself of thatstimulation.
Josh (19:59):
Yeah.
Travis (19:59):
And then the process, find a local group.
You can practice CE5 alone, butit helps have others to help
document and meditate with you.
You can practice meditation andintention, utilize guided
meditations and affirmations tocultivate a state of receptivity
and clarity.
And then you want to observeand document.
Pay attention to any unusualoccurrences, document your
experiences and share yourfindings with your group.
Josh (20:20):
Which we kind of saw a little bit of that with
Skywatcher.
If you guys don't know whatSkywatcher is, it's basically a
It's Josh's new love language.
Yeah.
They take this a little bitfurther.
They use this technique.
They found some of the bestpeople in the world to join
their team.
And they're combining thismeditation with
electromechanical signaling.
Yeah.
They're tools designed to callsomething in.
(20:42):
And they refer to it as likekind of a dog whistle that
they've fine-tuned to be able toget results.
And they claim it results in aUAP setting every time.
And they haven't disclosed howthis technology works.
I don't know if they ever will,but they have made most, all of
their data public.
Travis (20:59):
Proprietary information.
Josh (21:01):
Yeah.
And they've also in that datainclude footage of nine classes
of UAP.
It's phenomenal to watch.
It's very exciting, also justinsane.
Because it's basically they'relike the government's taking too
long.
We're just going to get our ownanswers.
And they're just going out anddoing it.
They're not doing itemotionally.
They're not doing this otherthan for scientific data.
(21:23):
And it's just really exciting.
So those are the five kinds ofcontact.
We kind of went through themall.
So everything that we kind ofdiscuss further will be
categorizing at least one ofthem.
We did the Flatwoods monster.
What would that be under?
Travis (21:39):
Well, it depends on how you classify the Flatwoods
monster.
Is it an alien or a cryptid?
Josh (21:43):
I mean, they they made it seem as though it's an alien.
Travis (21:45):
Most cryptids have some kind of paranormal or well, like
maybe supernatural, but Iwouldn't say like otherworldly.
Josh (21:52):
Aaron Powell I mean one of the theories was that it came
down from a space.
I mean, they saw a spacecraft.
Travis (21:58):
And we talked about Sasquatch being a Wookiee coming
from I mean that's just fact.
That's not I mean, that's justlife.
From the Wookie Planet.
Planet Wookiee.
Uh-huh.
It has a name, but I can neverremember.
It's like Kyrgyz, or I don'tknow.
It's weird.
Josh (22:12):
So these five categories offer more than just labels for
unexplained events.
It doesn't just escalate thelevel of contact, it escalates
the level of discomfort too.
Some people are fine seeingsomething in the sky, and they
might even be excited about it.
Kind of like you were talkingabout Steven Spielberg.
Sure.
I mean, he deserves it morethan anyone.
Travis (22:31):
Yeah.
Stevie just he just wants tohave an experience.
That's all.
Josh (22:34):
Yeah.
And he is excited about it.
Just give it to him.
Yeah.
Come on.
Others, they tap out at themoment, the lights start
flickering, or the dogs startgrowling at an empty hallway.
Which I know some people likethat.
Nope.
Travis (22:46):
Yeah, no.
Josh (22:47):
Just a quick nope turn.
And then for some, the idea ofinviting a response, like with a
CE5, feels less like Q I seeand more like playing with fire.
Travis (22:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because now you're inviting itinto your home.
Yeah.
The calls are coming frominside the house now.
Josh (23:01):
It's like old vampire rules.
You have to let them in.
Travis (23:04):
Yeah.
You well, you don't have to.
They can only come in ifthey're invited.
And now you're inviting themin.
Josh (23:08):
Yeah.
Maybe there's old magic alienrules, ancient rules.
Sure.
And we did it, and now they'rehere.
Yeah.
And that's why there's a biguptick recently, is because
we're calling them.
Travis (23:19):
Uh-oh.
Josh (23:20):
Yeah.
Travis (23:20):
Well, hopefully they're nice.
Josh (23:22):
Hopefully.
Travis (23:22):
Hopefully we get to live out Steven Spielberg's dream of
them being nice, benevolentpeople.
And maybe this time they'llactually take Richard Dreyfus
off this planet.
Josh (23:30):
Hopefully.
So that's where we're at.
Aliens, yes.
That's my opinion.
We're not doing that.
We talked about that at the topof the show.
I know.
I just I feel like peopleshould know.
But aliens, yes.
Travis (23:43):
Yes.
Yeah.
For sure, sure.
I'll I'll be on board withthat.
Aliens, yes.
Josh (23:49):
So this is like I said, a little bit different of episode.
Usually we go and give ouropinions, aliens, yes, no, or
maybe.
There's really no point in thatfor this.
This is just strictly learningepisode.
Just so that we can have aclear picture and some more
information for future episodes.
Travis (24:06):
And what we all wanted more acronyms.
And now I've got to fuckingfind out what information in my
brain got pushed out because nowI know what a C E1 is and a C E
two and a C E three.
So I guess I mean I'll neverknow what I lost and this was
replaced by.
Josh (24:20):
No.
Maybe you could do uh somehypnosis to see what you lost.
Travis (24:25):
Great.
Yeah, because those memoriesare just wet laying on the floor
here in your room somewhere.
I just gotta pick them up.
Just sweep them up.
Josh (24:32):
If you guys want to get a hold of us and if you guys have
some crazy stories or topicsthat you want us to talk about,
we are all for that.
You can message us by justgoing in our description in our
episode.
There'll be a link for fanmail, and you can click that and
it'll just you'll be able totext us basically and we'll get
it.
Yeah.
Travis (24:50):
How many fan mails do we have at this point?
Uh we have one fan mail.
And what is this what does itsay?
I'm sure I'm sure it's a veryengaged piece of fan mail.
Josh (24:59):
Yeah, it says hi.
Travis (25:00):
Okay, good.
Josh (25:01):
And I was able to look and it came from you, Travis.
Travis (25:07):
Maybe while recording the last episode as you were
making a very impassioned pleato have people just say hi.
Josh (25:15):
Yeah, I was very excited.
I was like, ooh, someone I waslike, wait a second, that
episode's not released yet.
We just recorded it.
And that's where I looked upthe number and it was your
number.
Travis (25:26):
Oh boy.
So old detective Sherlock Jonesover there.
Josh (25:31):
Yeah.
So maybe if you guys saysomething, send us something in
fan mail, maybe we'll talk aboutit on the show.
Okay.
That'd be fun.
We also have the quiz.
Peruge.
Oh.
So this next episode topic isgoing to be Skinwalker Ranch.
Travis (25:51):
Oh my God.
Josh (25:53):
And I have seen the TV show.
Travis (25:55):
Yeah, I have not.
I did watch with my youngest.
We saw God, I don't remembertheir names, but they're
YouTubers, and they go toSkinwalker Ranch.
Josh (26:05):
I remember you telling me about that.
Travis (26:06):
It was a waste of time.
Josh (26:08):
Yeah.
Well, I really like the show.
I'm excited for it to come outor for the next season.
Well, let's do this.
Travis (26:15):
Okay, here we go.
Josh (26:16):
So where is Skinwalker Ranch located?
So A.
Bug Tussle, Texas.
That's a funny name.
Travis (26:23):
Okay.
Josh (26:24):
Bug Tussle.
Travis (26:25):
Yeah.
Josh (26:25):
B Concho, Arizona.
C, Uinta Basin, Utah.
Or D.
Truth or Consequences, NewMexico.
That can't be a real place.
Travis (26:35):
I'm sure it is.
We have a street here calledChicken Dinner Road.
Truth or Consequences coulddefinitely be a real place.
Josh (26:41):
That's true.
Travis (26:42):
Um, I don't know.
I'm gonna guess and say Concho,Arizona.
Josh (26:45):
Okay.
Travis (26:46):
Final answer.
Josh (26:47):
I'm gonna say Utah.
Oh, okay.
Just I mean, I don't know.
Fuck.
Travis (26:52):
Should I change my answer?
Josh (26:54):
No, just keep it as is.
Travis (26:55):
Okay.
Josh (26:56):
Okay.
Next question.
What phenomenon is commonlyreported at Skinwalker Ranch?
Travis (27:01):
I'm getting in my head about this.
Josh (27:03):
A UFO sightings and cattle mutilations.
B portals encrypted entities.
C poltergeist activity andhauntings.
Or D all of the above becausethis place is a fucking
nightmare.
Travis (27:16):
I'm gonna say all of the above because this place is a
fucking nightmare.
I just uh that just seems likeso many things are going on at
Skinwalker Rant.
Josh (27:25):
Yeah, that's uh that's what I'm gonna do.
I'm gonna pick that one.
Travis (27:29):
Oh boy.
Josh (27:30):
Okay.
Who bought Skinwalker Ranch inthe 1990s to study its
paranormal activity?
Is that A, Elon Musk?
B, Robert Bigelow, C, HarryReed, or D.
Lawrence Rockefeller?
Travis (27:45):
I have no idea, but the 90s, I think Elon would have
been too young to have beenmaking those kind of purchases.
Josh (27:51):
Yeah, he didn't sell, what was it, PayPal until like the
2000s, I think.
Travis (27:56):
I'm gonna go Robert Bigelow.
Josh (27:57):
Okay.
That is what I'm gonna pick.
Oh, all right.
He's a uh real estate tycoonbillionaire.
Travis (28:05):
Oh, you say you know.
Okay, so I got one right,maybe.
Josh (28:08):
Maybe.
Travis (28:08):
Okay.
Josh (28:09):
Okay, next question.
What government programindirectly funded research at
Skinwalker Ranch?
Look at all these fuckingacronyms.
Is it A ATIP, B, ASAP, C, ASAP?
Travis (28:22):
A A W S A P, yeah.
Josh (28:24):
Or D NASA.
I'm not entirely sure.
I'm getting sweaty.
I mean it's not ASAP.
That's as soon as possible.
Travis (28:31):
Yeah, but it could be something else.
I mean, yeah, it could.
So I'm between ATIP or NASA.
I don't know what A-A-W-S-A-Pis.
AwSAP.
Josh (28:42):
I'm gonna pick A tip.
Travis (28:44):
Okay.
No, I'm gonna pick A tip.
Ha ha ha ha.
You fell right into my trap,Josh.
Josh (28:48):
I actually don't know.
Travis (28:49):
You know what?
I'm gonna say NASA.
I'm gonna change it.
Josh (28:51):
I don't know when ATIP came into play.
So I don't know.
I'm gonna say A tip.
Okay, next question.
When is the first knownparanormal report on record from
Skinwalker Ranch?
Is it A 1776?
Spanish missionaries recordedstrange lights in the sky.
B 1890s, local newspapermentioned terrorized ranchers
(29:12):
and demons.
C 1951, police were called whena strange creature attacked a
farmer's dog, or D.
1970s, reports of cattlemutilations and glowing orbs
began to surface.
Travis (29:25):
Okay.
I already know what my answeris gonna be.
I'm gonna pick 1951, thatpolice were called when a
strange creature attacked afarmer's dog.
Because skinwalkers?
That's the only reason I'mpicking that.
Josh (29:38):
Okay.
I don't know.
I'm gonna say Spanishmissionaries recorded it.
Travis (29:42):
Holy moy.
Josh (29:44):
Just because I know there's a lot of ancient lore
about this place as well withNative Americans.
So I don't know.
You definitely could be right.
All right.
Last question What is theorigin of Skinwalker Ranch's
namesake?
A.
A local Cryptid spottedcrossing the road at midnight,
or B a term invented by UFOresearchers in the 1990s, C a
(30:07):
mistranslation of a Ute word forBadlands, or D, a Navajo legend
with evil shapeshifters.
Travis (30:15):
Okay.
So I think for me, it's betweenthe last two.
And because a lot of places getmisnamed based on bad
translations, I'm gonna go witha mistranslation of the Ute word
for bad lands.
Now I want to go back andchange my answer to Utah.
Oh.
But I'm not going to.
Josh (30:33):
Oh, okay.
All right.
It's weird knowing a littlebit.
Travis (30:36):
So what did you what did you pick?
Josh (30:38):
I picked a Navajo legend about evil shapeshifters.
Okay.
Okay.
So we'll have the computer doits thing and we will see our
accuracy.
So where is Skinwalker Ranchlocated?
I said the Uinta basin in Utah,and that is correct.
Winta?
Winta?
I'm not sure.
Travis (30:57):
But that is correct.
Classic white guymispronunciation.
Josh (31:01):
I know.
Travis (31:02):
Both of us.
Josh (31:02):
And you said uh bug tussle?
Travis (31:05):
I wish.
Uh no, I said Concho, Arizona.
Josh (31:09):
Which is kind of close.
Travis (31:11):
Yeah.
Josh (31:11):
Okay.
Next one.
What phenomenon is commonlyreported at Skinwalker Ranch?
We both said all of the abovebecause this place is a fucking
nightmare.
Travis (31:20):
So that included UFO sightings, cattle mutilations,
portals, and cryptid entities,poltergeist activity and
haunting.
So just a shitload of stuff.
Josh (31:27):
Yeah, it's a it's a batshit place.
Travis (31:29):
Mm-hmm.
Josh (31:30):
Okay.
So we both got that right.
Travis (31:32):
Uh-huh.
Josh (31:32):
Who bought Skinwalker Ranch in the 1990s to study its
paranormal activity?
And we both said RobertBigelow.
Yeah.
And we are correct.
Uh huh.
Next one, what governmentprogram indirectly funded
research at Skinwalker Ranch?
I said ATIP.
You said NASA.
Travis (31:49):
We were both wrong.
Because I'm a I'm a basic boy.
Josh (31:52):
Yeah.
Okay.
It was OSAP.
Travis (31:55):
Which is Advanced Aerospace Weapons System
Application Program.
That is a program that was apart of the broader advanced
aerospace threat identificationprogram, otherwise known as
ATIP.
It was a contract awarded bythe Defense Intelligence Agency
to study advanced aerospacetechnologies, including those
with potential for weaponsystems, over a period of 40
(32:17):
years.
The program's goal was toinvestigate both foreign
advanced aerospace weaponsystems and explore potential
future technologies.
Josh (32:24):
Okay.
Travis (32:25):
So that is AWSAP.
Okay.
Josh (32:27):
Oh, you know what?
I was wrong.
Brandon Fogel is the currentowner of Skinwalker.
Okay.
He bought it from Bigelow.
Bigelow was the one contractedthrough AwSAP to do all the
research.
See, I'm already doing researchon this.
But yeah, so Brandon Fogel isthe tycoon, the real estate
(32:48):
tycoon.
Bigelow bought up propertiesall around the US and did
studies there that were weird.
And then eventually they soldthe Skinwalker place and Brandon
Fogle bought it.
So I was wrong in my initialthing, but we both got it right.
Travis (33:04):
It's okay, cut that out.
No.
Josh (33:06):
Next one.
When is the first knownparanormal report on record from
Skinwalker?
I said 1776 from Spanishmissionaries.
That was not correct.
Travis (33:16):
I said police recalled when a strange creature attacked
a farmer's dog.
Not correct.
That in 1951.
Josh (33:22):
The correct one was 1890.
Oh man, so old.
Yeah, local newspapersmentioned terrorized ranchers
and demons.
Mm-hmm.
Get demons again.
Travis (33:32):
Oh boy.
Hopefully that mowing devil.
Josh (33:34):
Yeah.
And then last one, what is theorigin of Skinwalker Ranch's
namesake?
Travis (33:39):
Yeah.
Josh (33:39):
And I said a Navajo legend about evil shapeshifters.
Travis (33:42):
Yeah, I said mistranslation, even though my
gut was telling me Navajo legendabout evil shapeshifters.
Josh (33:48):
Yep.
Well, cool.
I've watched the show.
I know a decent amount of it,but I know there's a lot more.
You know, they go into detailslowly.
They don't just give like astamp statement of what
everything is, but I'm excitedto lay this out.
And I don't think I would go toSkinwalker Ranch personally.
Travis (34:04):
I don't think so either.
I don't know.
It sounds like a terrifyingplace for crazy people.
Josh (34:08):
Well, and not even crazy people, just normal people.
They have a lot of people.
Travis (34:12):
No, but if you want to go there, I think that there is
something unbalanced in yourlife and you're looking for
trouble.
Josh (34:17):
Yeah.
No, I I agree.
Well, cool.
I'm excited to dive in on that.
It's gonna be a wild one.
Yeah, there's so much.
There's so much.
It's gonna be a wild one.
I'm excited.
And I mean, there's so muchdocumented too, just in the show
itself.
Yeah.
So well, cool.
Thanks for listening again, andwe will chat at you the next
episode.
Yay.
(34:38):
Bye.
Bye.
Aliens?
Aliens.
Aliens.
Travis (00:07):
Yes.
But maybe no.
Well, well, well, look who itis.
Back for another round ofaliens, yes, but maybe no with
Josh and Travis.
(00:27):
I'm Travis.
I'm Josh.
And this is an otherworldlypodcast as ambiguous as our
title.
So good job.
Yeah, thanks.
That wasn't bad.
Yeah.
How have you been?
Josh (00:41):
Good.
Really good, yeah.
I was not studying for this.
I did watch stuff.
Travis (00:46):
Oh, you did?
Josh (00:46):
For this episode, yeah.
Travis (00:48):
What did you watch?
Josh (00:49):
Uh the Skywatcher videos.
Travis (00:51):
Okay.
Okay.
Josh (00:51):
That's true.
Basically, I didn't watchmovies.
Travis (00:54):
Those are your new guys.
Josh (00:55):
Yeah, they are.
Skywatcher.
Travis (00:57):
But we'll get into that later.
Oh boy.
Okay.
Josh (01:00):
I don't remember what we talked about last time.
This happens every time.
Travis (01:03):
Uh Rendelsham Forest.
No, that was Uh Men in Black?
No.
Fuck.
Josh (01:08):
No.
Travis (01:10):
I have no idea.
Ley lines?
Josh (01:12):
Yeah.
Travis (01:12):
Ley lines.
Is that it?
Yeah.
He's gonna say FlatwoodsMonster?
No.
Cryptids?
It was Ley Lines.
Okay.
That good old black magic.
Why do I keep forgetting?
You keep forgetting too.
Oh, hell yeah.
What's going on?
We're just too busy.
I don't know.
It's also kind of funny.
It adds sore charm.
Josh (01:29):
Yeah, I guess so.
It's like we learn everythingand then we just forget about
it.
Travis (01:32):
Then just purge it.
Yeah.
It's gone.
Yeah.
Josh (01:34):
It's probably why we're not experts.
Travis (01:36):
Oh man.
Well, there's a probably anumber of reasons why we're not
experts.
Josh (01:39):
That's true.
So yeah, today it's a littledifferent just because we're not
debating anything, or we're notgoing to end this with our
final thoughts because this isjust information.
Yeah.
Just an information episode.
Kind of a system set up sopeople can document correctly.
Travis (01:58):
Yeah.
So we're talking about whatconstitutes a close encounter,
right?
And there are fiveclassifications, right?
Yeah of what a close encounteris.
Six, though, if you're nasty.
Josh (02:10):
Yeah.
It doesn't try to explain theunexplained, it categorizes it.
Travis (02:13):
Right.
Which is handy.
Josh (02:14):
Yeah.
So I if I had a weirdencounter, I could just say, hey
man, I had a encounter numberblank.
Travis (02:21):
I had a close encounter of the first kind.
Josh (02:23):
Yeah.
Travis (02:24):
Or the second kind.
Josh (02:25):
Yeah.
We're just gonna go through andI mean, honestly, this is more
so for us so that we canunderstand more.
Yeah.
Because this is important forus to know, and we've been doing
these episodes and not knowingthis system put in place.
And I hope you guys can learnsomething as we learn.
Travis (02:43):
Yeah.
Also plays, you know, a bigrole in Hollywood.
We'll get into this in a littlebit.
Josh (02:48):
Yeah, it's iconic.
I mean, I think Hollywood isthe only reason I've heard of
this word.
Travis (02:53):
Yeah.
Thanks, Stevie Spiels.
Stevie Spees.
Mm-hmm.
Josh (02:56):
Yeah.
Travis (02:56):
With uh close encounters of the third kind.
The third kind, correct mundodude.
Josh (03:02):
But he stole the idea.
Travis (03:03):
Bring a little Bart Simpson into the podcast.
Josh (03:05):
Yeah.
Travis (03:05):
He stole it.
Yeah, he stole it, right?
Uh wait, what do you mean?
Josh (03:09):
It was he didn't really steal it.
But I mean, he used a realthing to make the movie.
Travis (03:13):
He used uh the system put in place.
Well, he used Jay AllenHeineck's work.
Uh excuse me, it's Doctor.
Doc, okay.
I mean, I'm I'm pretty close.
I was pretty close with thelate Jay Allen.
Just call him Jay.
I just call him Jay.
Yeah.
I get that.
I don't know what it stood forthough.
Jiminy.
I think you're right.
Josh (03:33):
Or does that start with G?
Travis (03:34):
It can start with a J.
Jiminy Cricket starts with a J.
Josh (03:36):
Oh, okay, good.
Travis (03:37):
Yeah.
Josh (03:39):
Gimini.
Travis (03:40):
Uh-huh.
Josh (03:40):
But yeah, Jay Allen Heinek, Dr.
Jay Allen Heineck, was arespected astronomer.
And he consulted to the U.S.
Air Force and a scientist whobegan his career debunking UFO
sighting.
So he was kind of My kind ofguy.
Yeah, he was the guy thatpurposely was trying to say this
isn't real.
Travis (03:57):
Yeah.
Josh (03:57):
And then by the end of his life, he was one of the most
vocal advocates for taking thephenomenon seriously.
So something or some thingschanged his mind.
Something.
Something.
Something in it.
Little cockney.
In 1972, he published his bookcalled The UFO Experience, a
scientific inquiry.
And in it, he tried to dosomething that honestly very few
(04:19):
people in the UFO world weretrying to do at the time.
And that was bring structureand scientific rigor to chaos.
Okay.
And that's when he introduced aclassification system that
broke sightings and encountersinto categories, each one based
on how close you were to thephenomenon and what exactly you
experienced.
Travis (04:35):
Yeah.
So we got a close encounter ofthe first kind.
Josh (04:37):
I like to call that a CE one.
Travis (04:39):
Oh God.
Here we go.
That's just going to make itthere's so many acronyms and
abbreviations in this.
It's so confusing.
So C E one could mean closeencounter one, or it could mean
can't exist one.
Or whatever.
I don't know.
I'm just there's just too many.
It gets really confusing.
Josh (04:55):
Well, we're pretty close, so I uh I feel like I can
abbreviate it.
Travis (04:59):
With the doctor?
Yeah.
Or with the close encounter.
With the work, yeah.
Okay.
So that's uh you see a UFO.
It's close within about 500feet.
No physical evidence, it's justdeciding.
Josh (05:10):
Yeah.
Travis (05:10):
Okay.
Josh (05:11):
And then there's the second kind.
Yeah.
C E2.
Travis (05:14):
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Yep.
Uh C E2.
And that's where you getphysical effects like scorched
grass, interference withelectronics, weird animal
behavior.
So that's seeing evidence ofsomething, maybe otherworldly.
Josh (05:26):
I hate the weird animal things.
Travis (05:28):
I don't like it.
Josh (05:28):
Yeah.
Travis (05:29):
I don't like it.
Josh (05:29):
And he came up with the third kind.
Travis (05:32):
Yeah.
And that's you see beings, notjust lights in the sky, but
occupants of these ships.
Things with forms, shapes,maybe even faces, which is how,
spoiler alert, if you haven'tseen fuck what is now a
40-year-old or 50-year-oldmovie.
Yeah.
Close Encounters of the ThirdKind came out in 77.
Jeez.
At the end, as RichardDreifen's character gets on the
(05:53):
ship, the alien smiles.
Josh (05:55):
Oh, geez.
Really nice.
I'm already creeped.
I'm creeped out.
Travis (05:58):
It's actually it's a really sweet ending.
And Steven Spielberg, when hewas making that movie, somebody
on his crew, or a couple ofpeople on his crew, claimed to
have had an experience, but hewas this was on like their B
team.
And Steven has always wanted tohave he believes in aliens like
I do, but has always wanted tohave like an experience.
(06:20):
And he keeps missing them justby like being busy.
Yeah, just by being busy.
Josh (06:24):
Oh man.
That's a bummer.
Like if someone truly wants it,they should get it.
That's what I think.
Travis (06:29):
So at the time, like alien movies, depictions of
aliens have always been likethis violent, you know, group of
beings that are coming here totake over, right?
Like a lot of this 50 sci-fistuff.
And this was trying to turnthat narrative and treating them
as more benevolent beings whoare maybe here to enhance the
human existence.
I hope.
So it was just a really niceending.
Josh (06:51):
Yeah.
Kind of different than whatHollywood has been doing.
Travis (06:54):
There's an abduction that happens that's really
terrifying in that.
Josh (06:56):
Well, then I'm out.
Travis (06:57):
The kid gets taken.
Josh (06:58):
I don't like that.
Two worse things.
Travis (07:00):
No, it is it's terrifying.
It's very scary.
Josh (07:04):
So that's what Dr.
Heinek did.
He did these three and thenstopped.
Travis (07:09):
Yeah.
Josh (07:09):
But uFology progressed and others expanded to scale.
Travis (07:13):
So wait, you're telling me there's more?
There's more.
But wait.
But wait.
There's more.
Josh (07:19):
Jacques Valet introduced Close Encounters of the Fourth
Kind, involving abductions oraltered states of reality in his
book Confrontations (07:27):
a Scientist Search for Alien
Contact.
Travis (07:30):
Okay.
Jacques Vallet had an analog inClose Encounters of the Third
Kind played by FrancoisTruffaut, I think his name is a
French director and an actor.
So he was playing like acinematic version of Jacques
Vallet.
I can't remember what hisFrancois's character's name was.
Oh, okay.
We get Bob Balaban, who waslike the interpreter for
(07:51):
Francois's character, BobBalaban, who does a lot of Wes
Anderson stuff.
Josh (07:54):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I know what you're talkingabout.
Travis (07:57):
There's a lot of Christopher Guest stuff as well.
Josh (07:59):
And then there's Dr.
Stephen Greer.
He founded the Center for Studyof Extraterrestrial
Intelligence, or C SETI,advocating for human-initiated
contact.
Travis (08:08):
Now is this the same?
Is this like different fromSETI?
Josh (08:11):
Yes.
Travis (08:11):
Oh man.
So this is what I'm talkingabout.
Yeah, there's a lot.
Tighten up, you guys.
You guys need to come togetherand figure out your acronyms.
Josh (08:19):
Yeah.
C SETI is advocating forhuman-initiated contact and
communication withextraterrestrial life, which he
terms close encounters of thefifth kind.
So there's five.
I'm sure there will be more.
Oh boy.
Depends on where you go.
Travis (08:35):
I mean, we talked about like there's a sixth kind, but
it's not it's nothing that'sdocumented and nobody takes
seriously.
But that involves babies.
Yep.
Make them babies.
Uh as we say at our house, theold S-word.
Slop.
Yeah.
Yep.
The aliens just feed you from abig ladle, kind of like
Napoleon Dynamite feeds hisllama in the movie.
Josh (08:57):
Splashes everywhere.
Travis (08:58):
Yeah.
Come on, Tina, you fat lard.
Come get your dinner.
Josh (09:02):
So we have talked about a lot of these.
So when we were going throughwhen I was learning about these,
I was like, oh, that's likethis.
That's this.
So easy to categorize now.
Look at me.
I'm a categorizer.
So for the CE1, Close Encounterone, is a visual sighting,
which we did with the Phoenixflights.
And that happened in 97.
It's a massive V-shaped objectseen by thousands across
(09:24):
Arizona.
It lasted for hours, minimalsound and unexplained still
today.
Travis (09:29):
So then you get physical effects.
An example of that would be theRendelsham Forrest incident,
where multiple U.S.
Air Force members reportedstrange lights, physical
impressions on the ground,malfunctioning equipment.
Josh (09:40):
Yeah.
And in that episode, we both Noanimal stuff though.
No.
No, but these are just some ofthe bigger famous ones.
Sure.
Travis (09:47):
And the ones we've talked about on this show.
Josh (09:48):
Yeah.
And I just want to go on therecord.
My viewpoint at the end of thatepisode has changed personally.
Travis (09:54):
Oh my God.
This is wild.
Josh (09:56):
Yeah.
I uh I've done some moreresearch on Rendlesham, the
Rendlesham Forest incident, andI now believe that something
happened.
Maybe not aliens, I don't know.
Travis (10:07):
But breaking news.
Josh changes his opinion.
Josh (10:10):
Yeah.
Travis (10:10):
Stay tuned to this podcast for more on that.
Josh (10:13):
Yeah, the one that really did it was Josh Gates did an
episode on it and they turnedthe lighthouse back on because
it isn't functioning anymore.
Is that Josh Barolin's brother?
No.
Travis (10:23):
And your brother?
Josh (10:24):
No.
Travis (10:25):
Not everyone named Josh is related.
All Josh has I think so.
I don't I don't think that'sright.
Josh (10:29):
No.
Yeah, he got a light bulb andgot that lighthouse running
again and stood in the samespace, and it is very obviously
not something that you canmistake for something right
above you in the air.
It's not.
And that just kind of I waslike, oh man.
Because that was my thought.
Anyways, I just want to do aPSA.
Travis (10:51):
Okay.
Congratulations on youropen-mindedness.
Josh (10:55):
Yeah.
But that was one.
They had the triangle marks.
So that was physical evidence.
Mm-hmm.
They had scorch marks on thetrees.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then there's closeencounters of the third kind,
which is entities observed.
And that would be the aerialschool.
Travis (11:11):
Okay.
Josh (11:11):
That was 1994.
A group of students reportedseeing tall black creatures
emerge from the craft in theschoolyard.
Travis (11:17):
We don't need to go back down that.
Josh (11:19):
No.
I don't want to get you angry.
Travis (11:21):
Just go back and listen to that episode.
Yeah.
Josh (11:24):
It's a good one.
I like that one.
Travis (11:25):
Yeah.
And then we've got CloseEncounter of the Fourth Kind,
which is abduction or havingyour reality altered.
So an example of that is theTravis Walton abduction and the
Betty and Barney Hill abduction.
And that's where you experiencea loss of time and reported
being taken by alien beings andreturned home.
Josh (11:44):
The spookiest of the encounters, I would think.
Travis (11:46):
Uh yeah, because what that spaceship does.
Josh (11:50):
Yeah.
Travis (11:50):
What happens on that thing?
Josh (11:52):
We don't know.
Travis (11:52):
Mm-hmm.
Josh (11:53):
And that's the hard one.
That's the one that a lot ofpeople I don't know.
It just seems overwhelminglyclose encounters of the fourth
kind kind of that faces the mostcriticism.
And it's because it's usuallyfirsthand experiences, which you
love.
Love it.
And people just they go crazywith it.
They're overly fantastical andor outright hoaxes sometimes.
(12:14):
You know, it's it would be easyfor you to show up here and be
like, dude, I got abducted lastnight, and just have my story
straight and it's explain it.
No one can argue with me.
You know, it's just yeah, it'swhat I say.
But yeah, some of them arecrazy.
And in our notes, it says, likethis one, and we don't know
what that means, but ourresearcher, Jordan, gave us an
(12:35):
envelope.
Travis (12:36):
Oh my god.
Okay.
Josh (12:37):
And it says, do not open until instructed to do so.
So do you want me to open it ordo you want to open it?
Travis (12:43):
Uh I don't know.
I'm afraid of what it says inthere.
Josh (12:46):
I and what if whoever opens it doesn't read it?
Travis (12:49):
We just showed up and there was an envelope on the
table.
Josh (12:51):
Yeah, we've been eyeing it this whole time we've been
recording.
Travis (12:54):
Mm-hmm.
Josh (12:54):
Really nice penmanship, a little smiley face on there.
Travis (12:57):
Oh, great.
That's how we get lured in.
Josh (12:59):
I don't think that's her smiley face, though.
I think someone else did asmiley face on here, one of my
kids.
Okay.
Well, I'll open it since you'regonna be coward.
I am.
Travis (13:10):
Well, you move the envelope right in front of you.
Josh (13:13):
Okay.
Nice font already.
Travis (13:16):
Oh, comics and your favorite.
unknown (13:18):
Yeah.
Josh (13:19):
And it's the only font I can read in.
Travis (13:21):
Yeah.
Josh (13:21):
Okay.
So this will be an example of aclose encounter of the fourth
kind.
This is the abduction ofAntonio Villas Boas.
Researcher notes highlightedsays buckle up.
So Antonio Villas Boas, a23-year-old Brazilian farmer,
reported being abducted byaliens on October 16, 1957.
(13:42):
While working at night, he sawa red light in the sky that
descended and landed nearby.
He tried to flee but was seizedby a 1.5 meter or five foot
tall humanoid who was wearinggray coveralls and a helmet.
Its eyes were small and blue,and instead of speech, it made
noises like barks or yelps.
Three similar beings thenjoined the first in subduing
(14:04):
Boas, and they dragged himinside their craft.
Once inside the craft, Boassaid that he was stripped of his
clothes and covered from headto toe with a strange gel.
He was then led into a largesemicircular room through a
doorway that had strange redsymbols written over it.
Boas claimed that he was ableto memorize these symbols and
later reproduce them forinvestigators.
(14:25):
In this room, the beings tooksamples of Boas' blood from his
chin.
After this, he was then takento a third room and left alone
for around half an hour.
During this time, some kind ofgas was pumped in the room which
made Boas become violently ill.
Shortly after this, Boasclaimed that he was joined in
the room by another humanoid.
This one, however, was female,very attractive and naked.
(14:47):
She was the same height as theother beings he had encountered,
with a small pointed chin andlarge blue cat like eyes.
The hair on her head was longand white, somewhat like a
platinum blonde, but herunderarm and pubic hair were
bright red.
What Boas said he was stronglyattracted to the woman, and the
two had sexual intercourse.
Travis (15:07):
Hell yeah.
Josh (15:08):
Get it.
During this act, Boas notedthat the female did not kiss him
but instead nipped him on thechin.
When it was all over, thefemale smiled at Boas, rubbed
her belly, and gestured upwards.
Boas took this to mean that shewas going to raise their child
in space.
The female seemed relieved thattheir task was over.
Oh it wasn't as good as hethought.
(15:29):
And Boas himself said that hefelt angered by the situation
because he felt as though he hadbeen a little more than a good
stallion for the humanoids.
Boas said he was given back hisclothes and taken on a tour of
the ship.
He tried to take a clock-likedevice, but was caught and
escorted off.
The ship glowed brightly as ittook off.
Four hours had passed when hereturned home.
(15:51):
Okay.
Well, we talked about it.
So I guess an encounter wouldbe maybe the six would mean the
fourth.
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
But that is probably someone'sfantasy, uh, not mine.
Travis (16:06):
Platinum hair and red hair everywhere else.
Yeah, that's bonkers.
Sounds like a fever dream.
Josh (16:13):
I mean, yeah.
This very well could have man,I d I want to do more research
on that.
At some point, I will.
Travis (16:19):
But good for him.
A good stallion.
He was a good stallion.
For the human race.
Josh (16:23):
Yeah, I'm curious on like if some of the things he said
lines up with some other thingsthat are real.
Yeah, it's just bonkers.
I just don't.
And there's probably a wholebunch of stuff.
I mean, we've only reallyresearched the episodes that
we've done.
Travis (16:36):
I want to know more about the ship.
He just said, yeah, and then Igot a tour of the ship, but it
was mostly like, I had thiscrazy sexual experience.
Josh (16:43):
I mean, that was definitely the highlight,
probably.
Travis (16:46):
And I was very good at my job, but she was not very
happy.
But I was good.
Josh (16:50):
I wonder if the gases that were pumped in made him
attracted to her.
Like if it was some kind oflike pheromone.
I don't know.
That'd be interesting.
Well, crazy.
Do you think that exists?
I mean, if it were, the alienswould have it, right?
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
Travis (17:06):
And that's how we got Viagra.
Josh (17:08):
Yep.
Travis (17:08):
Space drugs.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Hens made their entire careeroff of this experience.
unknown (17:12):
Yeah.
Josh (17:13):
Um, well, that's a wacky story.
And I don't know if it's trueor not.
That's why I want to do morelike what were the symbols he
said he saw?
And if you could rememberthose, yeah.
Does he remember everythingabout it?
Yeah.
I don't know.
Well, that'll be a littlepersonal deep dive for me.
So that was four.
That was another crazy exampleof four.
Five is human-initiatedcontact.
(17:35):
So meditation-based contact.
Stephen Greer, founder of CSETI, promotes meditation-based
contact and started an appcalled CE5 Contact.
According to Greer, to engagewith extraterrestrial beings,
you'll need a few keyingredients: a sincere heart, a
clear intention, and aconnection to one mind
consciousness.
(17:55):
Almost sounds like trying tobelieve in magic.
Travis (17:58):
It does.
A pure heart.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then you have to buy anapp.
unknown (18:03):
Yeah.
Travis (18:03):
Which is funny.
He's like, you can do all thesethings, and that's great.
But there's one final thing.
You're not going to be able todo this without.
And it just so happens thatI've created this app.
Josh (18:12):
Yeah.
A CE5 app, like CE5 contact onthe app store, and it's for
finding local groups andresources.
So according to the CE5handbook, here's a little more
detailed breakdown.
So the heart.
This is what you need.
Travis (18:27):
You need a heart.
Josh (18:28):
You need a heart.
You need to feel things withthose hearts.
Travis (18:31):
Yeah.
And we're talking about anactual heart, right?
You need to have an actualheart.
Mm-hmm.
Josh (18:35):
Yeah, you need to be alive.
Travis (18:36):
Yeah.
Okay.
Good.
Josh (18:38):
You have to have sincerity, a genuine desire to
connect with benevolentextraterrestrial civilization,
and that's crucial.
Openness, be receptive to thepossibility of encountering and
interacting withextraterrestrial beings.
Right.
This sounds like beinghypnotized.
Yeah, it kind of reminds me oflike the remote viewing kind of
thing, like how to remote viewat home, but like a shallower
(19:01):
version.
So the second of this handbookbreakdown is the intention.
So you need a clear purpose,formulate a clear intention for
the contact, such as seekinginformation, understanding the
universe, or establishing apeaceful relationship.
And you need specific focus.
Focus your intention on thedesired outcome of the
encounter.
(19:21):
And then the connection.
Intention setting is alsoimportant because you need to
use techniques like meditationand positive affirmations to set
the intention for the contact.
And then there's the equipment.
Travis (19:41):
So the equipment, these are all the things you need:
headphones, comfortable clothes,or a blanket.
Consider bringing items like anotebook, a pen, a camera,
flashlight, and any other toolsyou feel comfortable using in
the field, like an eye mask.
So you can kind of depriveyourself.
Josh (19:56):
Zen out.
Travis (19:57):
Yeah.
Deprive yourself of thatstimulation.
Josh (19:59):
Yeah.
Travis (19:59):
And then the process, find a local group.
You can practice CE5 alone, butit helps have others to help
document and meditate with you.
You can practice meditation andintention, utilize guided
meditations and affirmations tocultivate a state of receptivity
and clarity.
And then you want to observeand document.
Pay attention to any unusualoccurrences, document your
experiences and share yourfindings with your group.
Josh (20:20):
Which we kind of saw a little bit of that with
Skywatcher.
If you guys don't know whatSkywatcher is, it's basically a
It's Josh's new love language.
Yeah.
They take this a little bitfurther.
They use this technique.
They found some of the bestpeople in the world to join
their team.
And they're combining thismeditation with
electromechanical signaling.
Yeah.
They're tools designed to callsomething in.
(20:42):
And they refer to it as likekind of a dog whistle that
they've fine-tuned to be able toget results.
And they claim it results in aUAP setting every time.
And they haven't disclosed howthis technology works.
I don't know if they ever will,but they have made most, all of
their data public.
Travis (20:59):
Proprietary information.
Josh (21:01):
Yeah.
And they've also in that datainclude footage of nine classes
of UAP.
It's phenomenal to watch.
It's very exciting, also justinsane.
Because it's basically they'relike the government's taking too
long.
We're just going to get our ownanswers.
And they're just going out anddoing it.
They're not doing itemotionally.
They're not doing this otherthan for scientific data.
(21:23):
And it's just really exciting.
So those are the five kinds ofcontact.
We kind of went through themall.
So everything that we kind ofdiscuss further will be
categorizing at least one ofthem.
We did the Flatwoods monster.
What would that be under?
Travis (21:39):
Well, it depends on how you classify the Flatwoods
monster.
Is it an alien or a cryptid?
Josh (21:43):
I mean, they they made it seem as though it's an alien.
Travis (21:45):
Most cryptids have some kind of paranormal or well, like
maybe supernatural, but Iwouldn't say like otherworldly.
Josh (21:52):
Aaron Powell I mean one of the theories was that it came
down from a space.
I mean, they saw a spacecraft.
Travis (21:58):
And we talked about Sasquatch being a Wookiee coming
from I mean that's just fact.
That's not I mean, that's justlife.
From the Wookie Planet.
Planet Wookiee.
Uh-huh.
It has a name, but I can neverremember.
It's like Kyrgyz, or I don'tknow.
It's weird.
Josh (22:12):
So these five categories offer more than just labels for
unexplained events.
It doesn't just escalate thelevel of contact, it escalates
the level of discomfort too.
Some people are fine seeingsomething in the sky, and they
might even be excited about it.
Kind of like you were talkingabout Steven Spielberg.
Sure.
I mean, he deserves it morethan anyone.
Travis (22:31):
Yeah.
Stevie just he just wants tohave an experience.
That's all.
Josh (22:34):
Yeah.
And he is excited about it.
Just give it to him.
Yeah.
Come on.
Others, they tap out at themoment, the lights start
flickering, or the dogs startgrowling at an empty hallway.
Which I know some people likethat.
Nope.
Travis (22:46):
Yeah, no.
Josh (22:47):
Just a quick nope turn.
And then for some, the idea ofinviting a response, like with a
CE5, feels less like Q I seeand more like playing with fire.
Travis (22:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because now you're inviting itinto your home.
Yeah.
The calls are coming frominside the house now.
Josh (23:01):
It's like old vampire rules.
You have to let them in.
Travis (23:04):
Yeah.
You well, you don't have to.
They can only come in ifthey're invited.
And now you're inviting themin.
Josh (23:08):
Yeah.
Maybe there's old magic alienrules, ancient rules.
Sure.
And we did it, and now they'rehere.
Yeah.
And that's why there's a biguptick recently, is because
we're calling them.
Travis (23:19):
Uh-oh.
Josh (23:20):
Yeah.
Travis (23:20):
Well, hopefully they're nice.
Josh (23:22):
Hopefully.
Travis (23:22):
Hopefully we get to live out Steven Spielberg's dream of
them being nice, benevolentpeople.
And maybe this time they'llactually take Richard Dreyfus
off this planet.
Josh (23:30):
Hopefully.
So that's where we're at.
Aliens, yes.
That's my opinion.
We're not doing that.
We talked about that at the topof the show.
I know.
I just I feel like peopleshould know.
But aliens, yes.
Travis (23:43):
Yes.
Yeah.
For sure, sure.
I'll I'll be on board withthat.
Aliens, yes.
Josh (23:49):
So this is like I said, a little bit different of episode.
Usually we go and give ouropinions, aliens, yes, no, or
maybe.
There's really no point in thatfor this.
This is just strictly learningepisode.
Just so that we can have aclear picture and some more
information for future episodes.
Travis (24:06):
And what we all wanted more acronyms.
And now I've got to fuckingfind out what information in my
brain got pushed out because nowI know what a C E1 is and a C E
two and a C E three.
So I guess I mean I'll neverknow what I lost and this was
replaced by.
Josh (24:20):
No.
Maybe you could do uh somehypnosis to see what you lost.
Travis (24:25):
Great.
Yeah, because those memoriesare just wet laying on the floor
here in your room somewhere.
I just gotta pick them up.
Just sweep them up.
Josh (24:32):
If you guys want to get a hold of us and if you guys have
some crazy stories or topicsthat you want us to talk about,
we are all for that.
You can message us by justgoing in our description in our
episode.
There'll be a link for fanmail, and you can click that and
it'll just you'll be able totext us basically and we'll get
it.
Yeah.
Travis (24:50):
How many fan mails do we have at this point?
Uh we have one fan mail.
And what is this what does itsay?
I'm sure I'm sure it's a veryengaged piece of fan mail.
Josh (24:59):
Yeah, it says hi.
Travis (25:00):
Okay, good.
Josh (25:01):
And I was able to look and it came from you, Travis.
Travis (25:07):
Maybe while recording the last episode as you were
making a very impassioned pleato have people just say hi.
Josh (25:15):
Yeah, I was very excited.
I was like, ooh, someone I waslike, wait a second, that
episode's not released yet.
We just recorded it.
And that's where I looked upthe number and it was your
number.
Travis (25:26):
Oh boy.
So old detective Sherlock Jonesover there.
Josh (25:31):
Yeah.
So maybe if you guys saysomething, send us something in
fan mail, maybe we'll talk aboutit on the show.
Okay.
That'd be fun.
We also have the quiz.
Peruge.
Oh.
So this next episode topic isgoing to be Skinwalker Ranch.
Travis (25:51):
Oh my God.
Josh (25:53):
And I have seen the TV show.
Travis (25:55):
Yeah, I have not.
I did watch with my youngest.
We saw God, I don't remembertheir names, but they're
YouTubers, and they go toSkinwalker Ranch.
Josh (26:05):
I remember you telling me about that.
Travis (26:06):
It was a waste of time.
Josh (26:08):
Yeah.
Well, I really like the show.
I'm excited for it to come outor for the next season.
Well, let's do this.
Travis (26:15):
Okay, here we go.
Josh (26:16):
So where is Skinwalker Ranch located?
So A.
Bug Tussle, Texas.
That's a funny name.
Travis (26:23):
Okay.
Josh (26:24):
Bug Tussle.
Travis (26:25):
Yeah.
Josh (26:25):
B Concho, Arizona.
C, Uinta Basin, Utah.
Or D.
Truth or Consequences, NewMexico.
That can't be a real place.
Travis (26:35):
I'm sure it is.
We have a street here calledChicken Dinner Road.
Truth or Consequences coulddefinitely be a real place.
Josh (26:41):
That's true.
Travis (26:42):
Um, I don't know.
I'm gonna guess and say Concho,Arizona.
Josh (26:45):
Okay.
Travis (26:46):
Final answer.
Josh (26:47):
I'm gonna say Utah.
Oh, okay.
Just I mean, I don't know.
Fuck.
Travis (26:52):
Should I change my answer?
Josh (26:54):
No, just keep it as is.
Travis (26:55):
Okay.
Josh (26:56):
Okay.
Next question.
What phenomenon is commonlyreported at Skinwalker Ranch?
Travis (27:01):
I'm getting in my head about this.
Josh (27:03):
A UFO sightings and cattle mutilations.
B portals encrypted entities.
C poltergeist activity andhauntings.
Or D all of the above becausethis place is a fucking
nightmare.
Travis (27:16):
I'm gonna say all of the above because this place is a
fucking nightmare.
I just uh that just seems likeso many things are going on at
Skinwalker Rant.
Josh (27:25):
Yeah, that's uh that's what I'm gonna do.
I'm gonna pick that one.
Travis (27:29):
Oh boy.
Josh (27:30):
Okay.
Who bought Skinwalker Ranch inthe 1990s to study its
paranormal activity?
Is that A, Elon Musk?
B, Robert Bigelow, C, HarryReed, or D.
Lawrence Rockefeller?
Travis (27:45):
I have no idea, but the 90s, I think Elon would have
been too young to have beenmaking those kind of purchases.
Josh (27:51):
Yeah, he didn't sell, what was it, PayPal until like the
2000s, I think.
Travis (27:56):
I'm gonna go Robert Bigelow.
Josh (27:57):
Okay.
That is what I'm gonna pick.
Oh, all right.
He's a uh real estate tycoonbillionaire.
Travis (28:05):
Oh, you say you know.
Okay, so I got one right,maybe.
Josh (28:08):
Maybe.
Travis (28:08):
Okay.
Josh (28:09):
Okay, next question.
What government programindirectly funded research at
Skinwalker Ranch?
Look at all these fuckingacronyms.
Is it A ATIP, B, ASAP, C, ASAP?
Travis (28:22):
A A W S A P, yeah.
Josh (28:24):
Or D NASA.
I'm not entirely sure.
I'm getting sweaty.
I mean it's not ASAP.
That's as soon as possible.
Travis (28:31):
Yeah, but it could be something else.
I mean, yeah, it could.
So I'm between ATIP or NASA.
I don't know what A-A-W-S-A-Pis.
AwSAP.
Josh (28:42):
I'm gonna pick A tip.
Travis (28:44):
Okay.
No, I'm gonna pick A tip.
Ha ha ha ha.
You fell right into my trap,Josh.
Josh (28:48):
I actually don't know.
Travis (28:49):
You know what?
I'm gonna say NASA.
I'm gonna change it.
Josh (28:51):
I don't know when ATIP came into play.
So I don't know.
I'm gonna say A tip.
Okay, next question.
When is the first knownparanormal report on record from
Skinwalker Ranch?
Is it A 1776?
Spanish missionaries recordedstrange lights in the sky.
B 1890s, local newspapermentioned terrorized ranchers
(29:12):
and demons.
C 1951, police were called whena strange creature attacked a
farmer's dog, or D.
1970s, reports of cattlemutilations and glowing orbs
began to surface.
Travis (29:25):
Okay.
I already know what my answeris gonna be.
I'm gonna pick 1951, thatpolice were called when a
strange creature attacked afarmer's dog.
Because skinwalkers?
That's the only reason I'mpicking that.
Josh (29:38):
Okay.
I don't know.
I'm gonna say Spanishmissionaries recorded it.
Travis (29:42):
Holy moy.
Josh (29:44):
Just because I know there's a lot of ancient lore
about this place as well withNative Americans.
So I don't know.
You definitely could be right.
All right.
Last question What is theorigin of Skinwalker Ranch's
namesake?
A.
A local Cryptid spottedcrossing the road at midnight,
or B a term invented by UFOresearchers in the 1990s, C a
(30:07):
mistranslation of a Ute word forBadlands, or D, a Navajo legend
with evil shapeshifters.
Travis (30:15):
Okay.
So I think for me, it's betweenthe last two.
And because a lot of places getmisnamed based on bad
translations, I'm gonna go witha mistranslation of the Ute word
for bad lands.
Now I want to go back andchange my answer to Utah.
Oh.
But I'm not going to.
Josh (30:33):
Oh, okay.
All right.
It's weird knowing a littlebit.
Travis (30:36):
So what did you what did you pick?
Josh (30:38):
I picked a Navajo legend about evil shapeshifters.
Okay.
Okay.
So we'll have the computer doits thing and we will see our
accuracy.
So where is Skinwalker Ranchlocated?
I said the Uinta basin in Utah,and that is correct.
Winta?
Winta?
I'm not sure.
Travis (30:57):
But that is correct.
Classic white guymispronunciation.
Josh (31:01):
I know.
Travis (31:02):
Both of us.
Josh (31:02):
And you said uh bug tussle?
Travis (31:05):
I wish.
Uh no, I said Concho, Arizona.
Josh (31:09):
Which is kind of close.
Travis (31:11):
Yeah.
Josh (31:11):
Okay.
Next one.
What phenomenon is commonlyreported at Skinwalker Ranch?
We both said all of the abovebecause this place is a fucking
nightmare.
Travis (31:20):
So that included UFO sightings, cattle mutilations,
portals, and cryptid entities,poltergeist activity and
haunting.
So just a shitload of stuff.
Josh (31:27):
Yeah, it's a it's a batshit place.
Travis (31:29):
Mm-hmm.
Josh (31:30):
Okay.
So we both got that right.
Travis (31:32):
Uh-huh.
Josh (31:32):
Who bought Skinwalker Ranch in the 1990s to study its
paranormal activity?
And we both said RobertBigelow.
Yeah.
And we are correct.
Uh huh.
Next one, what governmentprogram indirectly funded
research at Skinwalker Ranch?
I said ATIP.
You said NASA.
Travis (31:49):
We were both wrong.
Because I'm a I'm a basic boy.
Josh (31:52):
Yeah.
Okay.
It was OSAP.
Travis (31:55):
Which is Advanced Aerospace Weapons System
Application Program.
That is a program that was apart of the broader advanced
aerospace threat identificationprogram, otherwise known as
ATIP.
It was a contract awarded bythe Defense Intelligence Agency
to study advanced aerospacetechnologies, including those
with potential for weaponsystems, over a period of 40
(32:17):
years.
The program's goal was toinvestigate both foreign
advanced aerospace weaponsystems and explore potential
future technologies.
Josh (32:24):
Okay.
Travis (32:25):
So that is AWSAP.
Okay.
Josh (32:27):
Oh, you know what?
I was wrong.
Brandon Fogel is the currentowner of Skinwalker.
Okay.
He bought it from Bigelow.
Bigelow was the one contractedthrough AwSAP to do all the
research.
See, I'm already doing researchon this.
But yeah, so Brandon Fogel isthe tycoon, the real estate
(32:48):
tycoon.
Bigelow bought up propertiesall around the US and did
studies there that were weird.
And then eventually they soldthe Skinwalker place and Brandon
Fogle bought it.
So I was wrong in my initialthing, but we both got it right.
Travis (33:04):
It's okay, cut that out.
No.
Josh (33:06):
Next one.
When is the first knownparanormal report on record from
Skinwalker?
I said 1776 from Spanishmissionaries.
That was not correct.
Travis (33:16):
I said police recalled when a strange creature attacked
a farmer's dog.
Not correct.
That in 1951.
Josh (33:22):
The correct one was 1890.
Oh man, so old.
Yeah, local newspapersmentioned terrorized ranchers
and demons.
Mm-hmm.
Get demons again.
Travis (33:32):
Oh boy.
Hopefully that mowing devil.
Josh (33:34):
Yeah.
And then last one, what is theorigin of Skinwalker Ranch's
namesake?
Travis (33:39):
Yeah.
Josh (33:39):
And I said a Navajo legend about evil shapeshifters.
Travis (33:42):
Yeah, I said mistranslation, even though my
gut was telling me Navajo legendabout evil shapeshifters.
Josh (33:48):
Yep.
Well, cool.
I've watched the show.
I know a decent amount of it,but I know there's a lot more.
You know, they go into detailslowly.
They don't just give like astamp statement of what
everything is, but I'm excitedto lay this out.
And I don't think I would go toSkinwalker Ranch personally.
Travis (34:04):
I don't think so either.
I don't know.
It sounds like a terrifyingplace for crazy people.
Josh (34:08):
Well, and not even crazy people, just normal people.
They have a lot of people.
Travis (34:12):
No, but if you want to go there, I think that there is
something unbalanced in yourlife and you're looking for
trouble.
Josh (34:17):
Yeah.
No, I I agree.
Well, cool.
I'm excited to dive in on that.
It's gonna be a wild one.
Yeah, there's so much.
There's so much.
It's gonna be a wild one.
I'm excited.
And I mean, there's so muchdocumented too, just in the show
itself.
Yeah.
So well, cool.
Thanks for listening again, andwe will chat at you the next
episode.
Yay.
(34:38):
Bye.
Bye.
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