Episode Transcript
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Josh (00:03):
Aliens Aliens, yes.
Travis (00:09):
But maybe no.
Welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no.
With Josh and Travis.
I'm Travis.
Josh (00:26):
And I'm Josh.
Travis (00:28):
This is an otherworldly
podcast, as ambiguous as our
title.
So this is now our 10th record.
Josh (00:36):
Yeah, travis brought over
some sparkling bubbly wines to
celebrate.
Travis (00:42):
That was the champagne
bottle popping.
Josh (00:44):
At 11am to drink yeah, the
champagne bottle popping At 11
am to drink.
Travis (00:47):
Yeah, what a time to be
alive.
And we have all the reasons inthe world to drink.
We do, yep, we're just nowlooking for smaller reasons to
do it also.
Josh (00:55):
Well, I would say this is
a big reason, this episode,
because it messed with my head,okay.
If you guys listened last weekwhich we talked about, the
Phoenix Lights.
Right we, If you guys listened-last week, which we talked
about the Phoenix Lights right.
Travis (01:06):
Yes, we talked about the
Phoenix Lights.
My boy, Kurt Russell.
Josh (01:08):
We did a test as our
baseline quiz.
It was frustrating for both ofus because it just blew our
minds.
Travis (01:18):
Well, that it's a theory
is insane.
Josh (01:21):
It is insane.
So hollow moon theory is whatwe're going to talk about today,
and I've done a lot of research.
Travis has done research.
My mind is oozing with chaos.
Travis (01:31):
Yeah, oozing, you could
have chosen a better one.
Josh (01:33):
I know this topic is very
interesting, very compelling.
Travis (01:38):
To say the least.
It involves a high level oflike ancient text and religious
text and some really wildspeculation which we'll get into
yeah, I mean, we're gonna getinto it for sure, for sure.
Josh (01:57):
So, yeah, most of us know
this thing.
Yeah, that's up there in thenight sky called the moon
Looking down on us, yep, winking, yeah, so the moon is simply
Earth's constant companion inthe night sky.
But to some, the moon holdssecrets, secrets.
Travis (02:15):
Secrets Someone's
filling our new intro.
Josh (02:17):
Yeah, secrets that defy
mainstream science and hint at
much stranger origin.
The hollow moon theory proposesthat the moon is not a solid
rock, but either a hollowstructure or perhaps an enormous
artificial spacecraft.
Prominence of this theory pointto a range of unusual lunar
anomalies.
As evidence, for instance,scientists have long noted the
(02:40):
moon's relatively low densitycompared to Earth's Doesn't
quite add up.
If the moon is a solid rock,why does it appear lighter than
expected?
Some argue that it might behollow, with only a thin crust
and outer layer.
Then there's the question ofthe moon's surface composition.
Lunar rocks collected by Apolloastronauts contain high amounts
of titanium, chromium andzirconium, elements known for
(03:03):
their strength and resistance tocorrosion.
This has also led to sometheorists suggesting that the
moon's outer layer may bereinforced, as if it were
designed rather than naturallyformed.
Even stranger elements likeuranium 236 and neptunium 237,
which do not occur naturally,have been found on the moon.
Could these traces point intosomething artificial?
Travis (03:26):
Okay, I just I want to
take a little bit of exception
to them not occurring naturally,because if we can create it,
then it does somehow occurnaturally, whether on our planet
or in the broader universe.
Right, we cannot just create ordestroy things that don't exist
.
Josh (03:42):
Are you saying that?
Because we're humans and we'renatural that if we make
something that makes it natural,no, I'm saying that Because
that's bullshit.
Travis (03:52):
What is bullshit?
Josh (03:54):
Because it's like the no,
no, I'm saying the person that
smokes weed's like man, it'snatural.
Travis (03:59):
Well, I mean like OK, so
let's, let's talk about this
weed thing Like weed can grownaturally.
Okay, so let's, let's talkabout this weed thing like weed
can grow naturally.
Yes, but we have put our handon the scale and changed the
strains, and so weed that wassmoked even as short as 10 years
ago is different and morepotent now than it was then.
Right, and that, yeah, I don'tdisagree with that yes, we can
(04:21):
create things here, but we can'tjust create things out of whole
cloth, like there is a reasonthat we can put things together.
That is a natural thing, thathappens.
If we couldn't create it, thenI should have prefaced this by
saying I'm an idiot legally, alegal moron, an illegal moron,
(04:41):
I'm running loose man.
Josh (04:43):
Okay.
Travis (04:43):
Somebody catch me.
Stop me from doing this.
I'm running loose man.
Okay, Somebody catch me.
Stop me from doing this.
I'm trying, but if we couldn'tcreate it, then it would be
impossible to create, right?
I don't know if I'mcommunicating my thought very
clearly.
We can create things here andthese elements, Neptunium and
whatever they can be created,but we can create those because
(05:04):
they can occur naturally.
Josh (05:06):
I don't know the answer.
Travis (05:07):
It seems as though it's
pretty heavy duty science to
create these things likesplitting isotopes, and when we
say occurring naturally, whatthey're saying is like we
haven't found evidence of ithere on Earth.
But that does not mean that itdoesn't exist elsewhere.
Right, and obviously it does.
It's on the moon, and the moonis not just our closest
companion, but you could alsolook at it as like a small
(05:30):
protector.
It is taking a lot of hits fromasteroids, and so we get a lot
of like dust and metals fromasteroids that are coming from
the cosmos landing on the moonthat maybe wouldn't have hit
Earth because they hit the moonIf it is on the moon.
Josh (05:47):
but it doesn't occur
naturally.
Travis (05:49):
Yes, it obviously came
from somewhere else.
Alien maybe, yeah, possibly,yes, absolutely Alien, maybe.
Or just like the earth is sobig and we know so little about
it.
Like to just so that way.
Josh (06:02):
If you say maybe alien,
then that would line up with the
hollow moon theory.
Travis (06:06):
No, no.
Just because I agree to oneaspect of alien culture does not
mean that the moon is hollowand that it's an alien ship Like
I mean the moon is not creatinguranium 236 and neptunium 237.
Josh (06:19):
It doesn't have to.
It is so.
It came from somewhere else.
Travis (06:22):
Yeah, like asteroids or
comets or whatever, like space
dust landing on the moon.
I'm sure that there could beevidence of that here on Earth.
We just haven't found it yet.
Let's dumb it down a little bit.
Before the sandwich wasinvented, it was just like loose
meat and maybe some bread.
Right, somebody decided to puta sandwich together.
Neptunium, I feel like, is thatsame way.
(06:44):
These elements exist.
We were able to take theseelements to create something
bigger.
Josh (06:49):
But bread doesn't come
naturally, it's created.
Travis (06:52):
It is, yes, but it's
created from wheat and flour and
all these other things.
Josh (06:56):
That's exactly what I'm
saying.
Travis (06:57):
So do you think that we
were able to make bread because
these other elements exist andwe can put those together.
Josh (07:03):
Same with these other
elements exist and we can put
those together, same with theseother, but there's no
possibility anywhere in theworld.
Travis (07:07):
It's on the moon.
There's bread on the moon?
No, there's Neptunium.
Josh (07:11):
Yeah.
Travis (07:12):
It's on the moon.
Josh (07:13):
Yeah, it is on the moon
and it has to be created, it has
to be cooked, it has to be made.
Yes, so it's not natural, inthat it is the base things.
It has already been created, soit's there.
Travis (07:27):
Yes, exactly it's
already created.
Yeah, it's already there.
To say that we've created itand it doesn't occur, naturally,
it doesn't make sense to me.
Okay, because it's alreadyfound on the moon.
We didn't create it, we justdiscovered it.
So that's what you're saying?
Yes, that's what I'm saying.
We discovered that this thingexists, not that we created it.
It already existed.
(07:48):
Like I said, there's so muchabout our universe that we don't
understand or can evencomprehend.
Josh (07:53):
The point of these showing
up like.
What's so interesting about itis that it could point to
something artificial, where itdidn't grow on a tree, like a
loaf of bread doesn't grow fromthe ground, right, you know.
So that's what's interestingabout this is that something
somewhere, someone has to createit, which is bizarre.
That just shows the weirdnessof what's happening on the moon
(08:16):
that we don't really understand,right?
Travis (08:19):
I'm gonna try and follow
your logic, but that doesn't
really add up.
Josh (08:23):
Okay, that doesn't have to
, that's fine.
I'm a certified idiot too.
Travis (08:29):
Two certified idiots
Cashing it out, yeah, and our
most dangerous weapon Overuranium and neptunium yeah, our
most dangerous weapon is a micand a soundboard.
Josh (08:39):
Yeah Well, I want to keep
going, because this isn't all
that's weird about this theory.
One of the most compellingevidence of the hollow moon
theory comes from the seismicactivity.
During the Apollo missions,NASA intentionally crashed lunar
modules into the moon's surface, causing it to vibrate for
hours as the moon rang like abell.
(09:00):
Some scientists reported thatthe reverberations traveled
unusually deep, evenaccelerating at certain depths.
This behavior, they say, is notwhat you'd expect from a solid
object.
So one incident stands outunder the direction of Dr Werner
von Braun.
Travis (09:18):
Okay, before we get to
this, earth has a sound.
It is a very, very noisy planetand we have an atmosphere, so
we can record that.
The moon doesn't have anatmosphere.
So all we're getting is likevibrations that travel through
space, and this ringing like abell is an artistic flourish.
(09:39):
Nobody else is, except forwhoever this person that said
rang like a bell.
Those are the NASA scientists.
But who Name them?
Give us a name, throw a nameout there, chuck.
Okay, so, chuck, chuck heardthat the moon rang like a bell.
That's fine.
You got to take intoconsideration where this landed.
If something were to hit Earthover a cave or a system of caves
(10:01):
, there would be that same sonicreverberation, and the moon
does have caves.
In our recent history with themoon, we have discovered that
there are caves on the moon andthat would elicit like a sonic
ring.
Correct, because the moondoesn't have an atmosphere.
If you're standing on the moon,you wouldn't hear it, because
there's no sound in space.
Josh (10:22):
It's a vacuum.
They measured the ringing bythe reverberations, so they
weren't listening withheadphones.
Did they do the?
Travis (10:29):
same thing?
Did they have the same sonictest here on Earth?
Yeah, was there a control?
Well, it's not in our reading,so it's not in our readings but
guaranteed they have.
Josh (10:38):
They've hit things.
I mean, our whole seismotologydepartments are measuring
vibrations and readings and theyunderstand vibrations and
readings very, very well, and weget those with earthquakes all
the time.
Travis (10:51):
Yeah, that could ring
for hours.
Josh (10:53):
Well, those are tectonic
shakings, but that doesn't
matter, that's still ringing,yeah, but if we drop a huge
spaceship?
Travis (11:06):
from space onto Earth.
It is going to have a vibration, but it's only going to be for
a few minutes.
No, it's not no way.
We have, like I said, tectonicplates ringing and jostling
around rings for hours.
Josh (11:13):
Yeah, but we're not
talking about tectonic plates.
The moon doesn't have tectonicplates.
Travis (11:17):
We're using the same
logic that they are using on the
moon here on earth, and theysaid that they crashed something
into the moon and it rang forthree hours.
That could happen here, but theearth is so noisy, I mean it
has a constant hum.
It's known as ambient seismicnoise.
It's composed of seismic wavesexcited mostly by the
(11:37):
interactions of the ocean waveswith a C4 and then bouncing
around within the earth's crust.
The earth is constantly humming.
Josh (11:44):
That does not mean that
the earth is hollow yeah, but
the moon is not constantlyhumming, and when you hit it
with something it hums, and thenit hums louder and louder and
faster and faster.
Travis (11:52):
The earth doesn't have
tides or an atmosphere or
anything like that.
We're not constantly monitoringthe moon boom it's not a boom.
I know, but I am like we'retalking about this to me and I
know we're going to talk aboutanother character in this story,
(12:12):
but hopefully just briefly.
I feel like this sort of theoryhere is a slippery slope about
this community where you startto believe things like flat
earth, or even it starts out asa joke.
Like you know, this, this thinghappened on the moon.
(12:33):
That probably means it's hollow, right like.
Haha, that's really funny, justkind of like the birds aren't
real campaign that was on reddit.
People actually started tobelieve that birds aren't real
and it's making them veryparanoid.
On reddit, people actuallystarted to believe that birds
aren't real and it's making themvery paranoid.
It's like a parody that birdswere created so that they could
monitor human population Ibelieve it, hey, no, I anyway I
(12:56):
feel like this is this is aslippery slope.
There are things about hollowearth that I think are very
interesting and fascinating, butto me or hollow moon would I
say hollow earth yeah okay, well, I mean, that was what journey
to the center of the earth wasabout right with the rock
dinosaurs uh dinosaurs and uhking kongs, yeah and godzillas.
(13:17):
They all live down there, awhole tribe of king kongs damn I
mean, that's it's.
it's science fiction and it'swild.
There's a lot about the moonthat we don't understand.
There's a lot about space thatwe don't understand and we're
still learning.
So I'm not going to justbelieve this thing whole cloth
because of, like, a couple offringe scientists feel like it's
(13:37):
all.
Anyway, that's my opinion.
I'll save my overall opinionfor later.
I think you've made it veryclear.
Okay, I don't mean to sound sohostile.
I'm trying to be open-mindedabout this.
It's just really hard with thiskind of this specific topic.
Josh (13:52):
Yeah, there's just a lot
of evidence.
So the moon shouldn't exist.
It is an anomaly.
Some of the scientific theoriesthat we have aren't really
explainable.
Travis (14:02):
But if the moon doesn't
exist, then life doesn't exist,
right?
The moon is such a big part ofhuman life.
Josh (14:09):
We don't know that.
No, we do.
That's a theory.
Travis (14:12):
No, we have definitive
evidence that the moon affects
the tides and tides are whatbenefited evolution.
Like that is definitive, we doknow that the moon is a reason.
Yeah, it could have sped upevolution but we don't know the
reason, we don't know is becausewe were not there.
Well, the reason we don't know?
That's not true.
The reason we don't know isbecause we have a moon and we
(14:33):
don't not have a moon.
Josh (14:34):
But is it possible that
there were times where there was
not a moon?
Travis (14:37):
We can look at other
planets within our solar system,
in our galaxy, that do havemoons and we don't know that
there's life on it.
But that's because we don'tknow what we don't know, but our
moon is not like their moons.
Yes, it is, it is very it.
It's a big rock that floatsaround our our atmosphere, like
moons are not to say that ourmoon is hollow in an alien
(14:59):
spaceship is to say that allmoons are hollow in alien
spaceships I'm just saying theydid some tests.
Josh (15:05):
The moon rang like a bell,
yeah, as if were hollow, yeah,
and NASA was in charge of thosetests, and these are reports
from NASA.
Travis (15:12):
Okay, so that's reports
from some scientists within NASA
who took an artistic flourishand say rang like a bell instead
of reverberated or did whatever.
That's purple language, as theycall it.
One more thing about theringing Solid objects absolutely
can ring.
Have you ever, like, had ametal pipe or a ball and you hit
(15:35):
it and it vibrates and willmake a sound but it's usually
something like a bowl or a pipethat is hollow on the inside
they know, if you take likerebar, that's solid, you can hit
that and it will 100 vibvibrate.
Josh (15:49):
Yeah, it will vibrate and
continue to vibrate.
Travis (15:50):
That is just like.
That's physics.
That's transferring energy fromone thing to another.
Josh (16:02):
But the big thing that
they were measuring was the
vibration waves, what they looklike they would speed up the
deeper it went, which means thatit is hollow, because if
something has density, thevibration slowed down.
This did not slow down, it spedup, which is backwards okay it
had density.
So one incident stands outunder the direction of dr verner
von braun this is the only timewe're ever going to mention him
(16:24):
.
Travis (16:25):
This guy is uh, I don't
want to spend a whole lot of
time on this, but he was a nazithat we brought over through
operation paperclip clippy, yeah, which is clippy.
Um, he was brought because hehad started a rocket program
under the nazi regime.
You do not get to his levelwithout having some very uh
(16:46):
naughty, some, yes, some verynazi oh no, I said naughty yeah
okay, but you said nazi, nazi,you don't you don't get to his
position without following alongwith the philosophy of nazism
yeah, he was up at the top hewas at the top, he was one of
their top scientists and webrought him over.
He said, yes, I will come over,but you have to pardon all my
war crimes, everything that Idid for the nazi regime and we
(17:07):
did it and we did it and hebecame the head of nasa at the
time.
He became come over, but youhave to pardon all of my war
crimes, everything that I didfor the.
Josh (17:10):
Nazi regime.
Travis (17:11):
You had to pardon it,
and we did it, and we did it.
Josh (17:12):
And he became the head of
NASA at the time.
Travis (17:14):
He became the head of
NASA.
The rocket program we have isdue to him, but I don't Like him
.
I don't, I don't like him.
Josh (17:24):
That's an understatement.
Travis (17:25):
He had a very adept
mathematical mind, but his
social philosophies are trashand I just want to be on record
by saying that I do not agreewith Nazism and I think it's bad
.
Josh (17:38):
Note taken.
Travis (17:40):
Not bad, don't do it.
Don't do Nazis.
Josh (17:43):
If I had the opportunity
to kill millions of people, I
wouldn't.
Travis (17:47):
I wouldn't either.
Yeah, I think that's a veryhealthy stance yeah, so I think
I think we're safe.
Josh (17:52):
Yeah, so, with him being
the head of nasa, a large
portion of the apollo 13 rocketwas intentionally crashed into
the moon.
This time, the moon rang forover three hours, as if
resonating through a hollowstructure.
And then there's the phenomenonof the solar eclipse.
The moon is positioned at sucha perfect distance from earth
that it precisely covers the sunduring a total eclipse right
(18:15):
well, which we learned in thedocumentary is not true.
Travis (18:17):
It doesn't precisely.
There's a lot of bleed overfrom the sun and the moon
because of the lack ofatmosphere up there, it is
losing.
It's actually shrinking alittle bit yeah, and it's
getting further away.
Josh (18:29):
Yeah, so I would imagine
at some point it was perfect.
Sure, during its existence,sure.
So statistically, this is arare cosmic coincidence.
To theorists, it's evidence ofintentional design, almost as if
the moon were placed there toact as a perfect shield and
perhaps to stabilize life onEarth.
Travis (18:47):
Like I was talking about
earlier and this is where it
gets interesting to me, not as aalien craft, but if there were
aliens that had a hand in whichis covered in a lot of sci-fi,
even, uh, stargate they talkabout, you know, aliens coming
to earth and I love helping yeah, helping move human
civilization along, which Ithink is a fascinating idea.
Josh (19:10):
It's the best possible
outcome.
Travis (19:11):
Yeah, I like that as a
theory that it was placed here.
That is the closest I will getto admitting that the Earth is
hollow, which I, the moon, goddamn it.
Take this out on editing Everytime.
Josh (19:26):
I say hollow Earth.
Travis (19:27):
Josh, I want to hear an
edit where it's your voice
saying moon, where I'm sayinghollow after I'm saying hollow
it'll be a little baby's voicesaying moon that'll be really
funny yeah.
Josh (19:40):
So if the moon were hollow
or even artificial, who or what
created it and why?
While mainstream sciencedismisses these ideas of
speculation, the hollow moontheory has captured the
imagination of those who believein the possibilities beyond the
accepted knowledge.
So there are some things thatback up the hollow moon theory.
(20:01):
Right, there's a lot of things.
So some of the things themoon's surface rocks are older
than the rocks beneath them.
This is wild, it's backwards,it doesn't make sense.
The only way that that couldhappen that we've seen on Earth
is if you mine and bring up theold rocks with a drill or an
explosion and then those thingscome out and lay on top of the
(20:22):
newer Earth.
And it's consistent.
It's not just here and there.
It's not like an asteroid hitthe moon and then all of a
sudden there's little areas andpockets outside of the asteroid
craters that have that happening.
It's consistent around theentire moon.
There's also the moon's density.
It's lower than expected,especially considering the
(20:42):
density of its surface rocks.
The rocks are super dense, verymagnetic, which also the moon
is not magnetic, and they'revery old, but the density of the
moon, which I don't know.
How they can figure out, thedensity of a moon first of all.
That is beyond my intelligence.
Travis (20:58):
Like a giant.
Josh (21:00):
Well, no, a giant scale.
Is that what you're going tosay?
A giant scale.
Travis (21:03):
Yeah, they just put on a
scale.
You can do that throughinfrared readings.
It's the same thing that we usehere on earth.
We can tell how dense somethingis by bouncing infrared rays
off of it.
Josh (21:14):
Okay, I'm wondering if
they could.
I mean, cause we do stuff wherewe do ground penetrating radar,
if they can do that up there.
But if these rocks are supermagnetic, then that ground
penetrating radar would not workbecause the magnets would get
in the way.
So there's also that abundanceof titanium, chromium and
zirconium on the moon, metalsknown for their strength and
corrosion resistance, suggestingthat it is artificially
(21:38):
reinforced, which is thematerials that we would use if
we were going to make somethingreinforced and last forever.
These are very rare rocks.
Travis (21:49):
We're not finding
evidence of every moon rock.
Well, it just says abundance ofthese moon rocks and metals are
there, yeah, but we wouldprobably find an abundance of
those rocks here on Earth.
No, it's a rare thing on Earth,well, that we know of.
Like I said, the water is like80%.
We're not going through theocean and picking up every weird
(22:10):
ass rock that we see in theocean.
We're barely even touching theocean.
Josh (22:14):
Have you ever been to the
ocean?
Travis (22:15):
Yeah, it's big.
Do you pick up a rock?
Josh (22:18):
I don't know, I throw it
right back in the water.
So there are people going andpicking up stuff.
Travis (22:22):
But I'm not looking at
rocks like, oh this is weird,
turn this into nasa well, you'remissing out.
Josh (22:27):
That's what me and my
family do.
Do you really that's?
No, that would be kind of fun,though I found this weird rock,
just send it in the mail, put itin an envelope with a stamp on
it what you think?
Yeah, there's also what wetalked about.
Travis (22:39):
The uranium and
neptunium elements not naturally
occurring raises questions aswell we're talking about rare,
though we're not talking aboutunfound or like non-existent.
It's rare, that means that itexists, it's just not common for
the metals, yes, but theuranium and neptunium?
Josh (22:56):
it doesn't exist unless we
combine things or separate
things to create it.
Well, it's also weird that justthe position of the moon is at
the perfect position for life tobe on Earth like you mentioned.
Travis (23:09):
Oh, okay, so yes, and
that is that it perfectly
stabilizes seasons and the tidesCorrect.
Josh (23:16):
So if there was not a moon
, earth would still exist, there
would still be life and we have.
It would just be erraticconditions.
Travis (23:24):
We don't know what that
would look like.
There are, like I said,millions, billions of other
planets out there that havemoons.
We don't know if it has life.
Yes, what happened here is veryspecific to Earth.
That's not to say that it's nothappening anywhere else, it's
just happening here and it seemsto be, as far as we can tell,
very rare.
Yes, and the moon is a big partof that.
(23:45):
So if it was designed, thatmeans that there's some other
being out there that createdthis.
Or we use the research that wehave available and say that it
was an absolute coincidence orit just happened.
Things came together in justthe right way.
It's that Goldilocks formula,like things here on Earth were
perfect, they were all justright, impossibly right, not
(24:06):
impossible, because it happened.
But how'd it happen?
I don't know.
I don't know, I don't know.
Tell me, that's a differentpodcast.
Josh (24:13):
There are ancient texts
and oral traditions from various
cultures around the world thatdescribe a time before the moon
existed yeah, so when I firstheard that, my first thought was
someone was writing things andtalking about it.
But that's not what it is.
There are creation storiesthrough all these different
religions and ancient texts thatjust describe how everything
(24:35):
was created yeah, but there arealso philosophers of ancient
times that have talked aboutcivilizations that existed
before the moon.
Travis (24:44):
I don't think so.
Josh (24:45):
Well, I'm just saying
those.
I know those writings exist.
Travis (24:48):
I am expressing my own
opinion.
I'm not saying that my exist.
I'm expressing my own opinion.
I'm not saying that my opinionis at all fact.
My opinion is.
I should let you finish.
That's my opinion.
I'm really sorry that I keepcutting you off.
Josh (24:58):
Yeah.
Travis (24:59):
I didn't think that I
was going to get this worked up
about it.
Josh (25:01):
Honestly, I wish that you
would get this worked up about
it on the opposite side, whereyou believe it.
I wish you would get thisworked up about not believing it
.
I believe that you will be atrue and faithful soldier
someday for the ufologists andwe will get you there with the
help of our faithful listeners.
Travis (25:21):
Okay, please, okay.
I'm not trying to indoctrinateyou, but I feel like I'm getting
indoctrinated maybe so.
Josh (25:27):
there were old
philosophers that mentioned
civilizations that lived beforethe moon, and these are not part
of creation stories, but it'salso not firsthand experience.
It's oral tradition that hascome down to these authors.
Travis (25:41):
Oral traditions are
notoriously faulty, it's like
the game of telephone.
Josh (25:47):
Most of these oral
traditions come from traveling
merchants, so that's why we geta lot of the same stories from
all these different religions.
Is these trade routes?
That's what they did when theywere done traveling.
They sat down the fire around awell and just told stories that
they've heard from other places.
Travis (26:02):
Like the most famous of
these, as Beowulf, great Norse
warrior, goes on this quest toeliminate a threat.
It's storytelling, and it's theeasiest thing for us to wrap
our mind around.
Is that we all procreate thesame way, right?
Josh (26:18):
Usually stories are based
in fact.
So the game of telephone startsout with a truth and then it
gets really wonky.
Yeah, so we have some wonkiness, but all these stories from all
around the world.
There was a time without a moon, or a time before creation.
There was also things in thesky, aliens or something came
down and brought the moon Right,like the Sumerians.
Travis (26:41):
Parts of the Zulu nation
.
Josh (26:42):
Yeah, and then all the way
on the other side of the world.
Travis (26:45):
Life on earth could not
exist as it is without a moon.
Josh (26:48):
You know what?
I'll let you have that.
What if that moon's hollow Way?
Travis (26:54):
to bring it back.
Josh (26:55):
I'm just saying like, yeah
, okay, fine, the moon has
always been there, but what ifit's hollow?
Travis (27:01):
What if it's hollow
indeed?
Josh (27:02):
You know what?
I'm looking at my notes andwe're at the point where there's
counter arguments.
Travis (27:08):
I believe I.
Josh (27:08):
Maybe I can interrupt you.
Travis (27:12):
Really read me for filth
, josh.
So the scientific communityoverwhelmingly accepts that the
moon has a solid internalstructure.
Explanations for lunaranomalies exist within
conventional science, althoughsome remain debated.
There's some densitydiscrepancies attributed to
differentiation during lunarformation, unusual seismic
activity explained by the moon'sunique composition and lack of
(27:33):
a substantial atmosphere.
Perfect eclipses are considereda coincidence, with the moon's
apparent size graduallydecreasing over time.
I'm not a scientist, so a lotof this stuff just sounds like
okay, blah-ba-dee-blah,blah-blah-ba-dee-blah.
I'm just using my own dumb,like I said, legal moron
understanding of what I know ofthe moon, and that's, I guess
you know, maybe opinion, butit's opinion based in my own
(27:56):
research.
Josh (27:56):
There's a lot of questions
about the moon and the only
theory that has all of thosequestions answered is the hollow
moon theory.
All these other scientifictheories, which I want to remind
you, they are all theories.
There's little things that justdon't add up.
But the one that has the mostthings that add up is the hollow
moon theory.
Travis (28:16):
In your expert opinion.
But we're getting to the pointnow where it's kind of like an
echo chamber where the onlything that's being researched is
something that validates thisand there's not enough that
discredits this theory.
That's, I think, my role onthis show is I'm going to put a
lot of time and work into makingme feel like shit.
(28:36):
No, I don't want to make youfeel like shit, but I do feel
like it's a responsibility toput the other information out
there.
Josh (28:44):
Honestly off podcast.
I think it is a greatconversation.
Oh yeah, and what makes usunique is that we are who we are
.
Travis (28:53):
Yep 100%.
Josh (28:54):
I'm also curious on your
thoughts on this.
So when was the last time wewere at the moon?
You said 2013, or was that?
Travis (29:00):
That was an unmanned so
72.
, 76.
Josh (29:04):
That is bizarre because we
have the technology.
It absolutely is.
Obviously we have thetechnology.
We had it in the freakingseventies.
Why haven't we gone back?
That's weird.
We are humans on a planet.
We should be reallyinvestigating some of these
things.
We're finding buildings andstructures from way older than
we ever thought we would.
We're finding really weirdthings outside of our planet.
(29:27):
Why aren't we investigatingthem?
And I think this is is mythought is that it will go
against our basic science anddiscredit a lot of the top
people in the scientific fieldand these people that are in
charge of the science communitywill not have that, because
it'll make everything that theyhave said and researched wrong.
I got a little tangent, I'msorry.
(29:49):
I hate the process and the duediligence that they have to go
through to get their researchdone, and a lot of the things
that they have to do issacrifice some of their honor to
get done what they need to bedone, and then they don't get
the full results or they getstopped because they don't get
funding anymore, because it'snot interesting.
Travis (30:09):
And that's where I land
on this is that nobody really
has been back to the moon since72.
And I feel like it was part ofthat space race where somebody
just wanted to be first and thatwas it.
Like we aren't putting forththose efforts to go and explore
the oceans, but we were thefirst to get to the moon and so
we're like, ok, we did that, nowwe're done.
(30:31):
There was really nothing upthere, so let's just move on.
Josh (30:35):
Well, and that was the
recorded reason of why the last
handful of Apollo missions werecanceled was because they lost
funding, and they also mentionedthere was a lack of interest.
Yeah, I mean there's lots ofpeople that have the interest,
they just don't have the moneyor the voice there.
I mean there's lots of peoplethat have the interest, they
just don't have the money or thevoice.
There's tons of people withinterest.
So I think the people with themoney lost the interest or
(30:57):
they're hiding something,because we saw footage very
short footage in a video that wewatched together.
Travis (31:04):
The press conference.
Josh (31:04):
The press conference when
the astronauts came back.
Travis (31:12):
We saw a clip that was
placed in an edited video of a
press conference.
That happened 40 years ago, 50years ago, whenever, how long I
don't know.
Josh (31:15):
Math.
No one can figure that kind ofmath out.
Travis (31:17):
Okay, so 50 years ago or
whatever, we saw a clip that
somebody had put in to validatetheir point and I think that
that's a fair part of that videoessay that we watched.
But I don't necessarily thinkthat that is true of their
feeling, nor does it back up theclaim that they were scared or
it wasn't a scientific marvel togo to the moon.
(31:38):
There are a lot of differentfactors that are at play.
At that.
That could have been a long day.
That could have been the 10thinterview of a hundred and
they're just running out ofsteam.
It could have been any numberof things.
Josh (31:49):
So to read into it like
Well, and their bodies are
readjusting to Earth.
Sure, because when you're inspace you have to be very
careful.
I mean your blood pools.
You have to exercise a lotbecause your blood will not
distribute correctly, your fooddoesn't digest.
Travis (32:03):
Yep, we've evolved to
live on Earth, and so when we
get up to a zero gravityenvironment, our body does not
know how to function.
Josh (32:11):
You know what's
interesting?
Up until yesterday I thoughtthat we had the technology.
Because of media, I thought wehad the technology to turn on
and off gravity, even though Iknow we have no control of
gravity.
I've watched enough sci-fimovies where they are up in
space and they turn gravity onso that they can walk normal in
space.
For some reason I knew thatdoesn't exist, but I also
(32:35):
thought it did.
Travis (32:36):
Have you seen the movie?
Thank you for smoking?
Yes, there's a line in thatthat I use a lot.
So they're pitching this newcigarette right, they're trying
to get advertising out about itand they're like, yeah, we're
going to have this bang and sexscene between these two leads.
They're going to have this bangand sex scene between these two
leads.
They're going to be on a spacestation and then afterwards
they're going to smoke acigarette because the sex was so
hot.
Josh (32:55):
Yeah.
Travis (32:56):
Somebody that's in this
meeting was like well, you can't
smoke in a vacuum.
And they're like, well, we'lljust fix that with one line of
dialogue, thank God for thewhatever blah, blah blah device,
and so I use that all the time.
It's like well, thank god, it'sfixed with one line of dialogue
, you can do that with anything.
Yeah, it's true.
So we can manipulate gravity,but we can't control it.
Gravity is a force just like,just like love, uh, a force
(33:20):
greater than anything else onthis earth and really that's why
we started this podcast is livegravity, oh, what uh gravity.
We should have rehearsed thatyeah uh, I meant love I meant
gravity.
Josh (33:36):
So I just want to conclude
we got on tangents, we got on
things.
Obviously you believe in thehollow moon, um so, let's just
conclude this what, what areversal oh, all right.
Hollow earth?
I'm sorry.
Yeah, so the hollow moon theory.
There isn't a lot of mainstreamscientists that support this
idea.
There are genuine lunaranomalies that appeal to
(33:57):
alternative explanations, butthat's just what it is
Alternatives, it's theories.
Everything is a theory.
The moon, for me, is weird.
Until we started doing researchon this episode, I've never
thought about the moon.
The only conspiracy thing I'veheard is the moon landing being
fake.
Travis (34:16):
I think about the moon
all the time.
It is, you might say, my RomanEmpire.
Josh (34:20):
Okay, what.
Travis (34:22):
There's this theory that
men think about the Roman
Empire at least once to eighttimes a day.
What Every day, yep.
Josh (34:32):
And this is a theory.
Travis (34:34):
This is mostly a joke to
me.
It's like taken throughquestions and when men were
asked they did like a populationsample.
Asked a group of men, how oftendo you think about the Roman
Empire, a huge chunk of themwere like oh, I think about it
all the time.
Josh (34:49):
So they just all lied?
Maybe they do so.
While some of the presentevidence can be dismissed as
misinterpretations orspeculations, the theory
highlights an enduringfascination with the moon and
the mysteries it may hold.
And they are mysteries becauseeverything is a theory and now
everyone on this podcastbelieves it.
I would love to hear where Icould have done better at
(35:11):
convincing Travis that this isall real.
And if you're on Travis's sideyou don't think it's real, Come
at me.
Travis (35:19):
Let's get divisive.
Let's separate our camps, let'shave a definitive.
We'll call them the TravisWolfs and the Josh.
What Moons, yeah.
Josh (35:29):
Because I just like to
howl, at you.
Yeah, see I just like to howlat you.
Travis (35:32):
Yeah, see what I did
there.
Josh (35:33):
I did so.
We'll have links in our notes,some of the videos that we
watched and some fan mail.
If you guys want to send ussome stuff, you can do it right
through the app.
At this point in the show, wewill now do our final thoughts,
which is also, ironically, thename of the show Final thoughts
Aliens, which is also,ironically, the name of the show
.
Final thoughts Aliens yes, butmaybe no.
(35:54):
Right.
Right, that's the show.
Travis (35:56):
I was confused.
You said the name of the showwas Final Thoughts.
Josh (35:59):
Final Thoughts with Josh
and Travis yeah, it's just our
dying thoughts.
Travis (36:04):
Just the last thing that
we hope goes through our brain
when we die.
Josh (36:07):
Yeah, sounds sad.
So on the scale of aliens, yes,maybe or no, I'm at like a 90%.
Yes, I know it's wacky, I knowit's crazy, but the actual
scientific theories throughscientists that have not been
corrupted by crazy don'tnecessarily line up and they
(36:31):
don't have all the answers thatI'm looking for.
This has a lot more answers andI'm going to lean more on the
aliens, maybe.
Travis (36:40):
Okay, so you're 90%
though, so that's like yeah, I'm
not a hundred percent.
Josh (36:45):
I'm not going to go picket
the street saying the moon is
hollow Not that the streetsaying the moon is hollow?
Travis (36:50):
Not that for me.
I am closing the book on thistheory in my head as a
definitive no, hard no.
Um.
No, the moon is not hollow andit's not a whole spaceship.
That is my, that's my feeling,and I got it right this time.
Josh (37:04):
I said you did.
I'm proud of you.
Travis (37:07):
I'm growing.
And with that we are now gonnado Our baseline quiz.
That's our baseline quiz song,right?
Josh (37:18):
So I don't know what this
topic is yet I'm curious we
don't get the quiz Until halfwaythrough our recording.
Travis (37:25):
Cause I'm a cheater.
Josh (37:26):
Because Travis has cheated
in the past.
I cheated one time, he cheatedone time and we do not Never
forgive.
Trust him no, and people don'tchange.
No, I actually believe peoplecan change.
Travis (37:39):
Yeah, but not Travis.
You leave me in a room with acookie jar full of quiz answers
and I'm going to eat every lastone.
Josh (37:46):
Every time he will reach
his hand in there.
Travis (37:48):
Yeah, every time.
Josh (37:49):
Yeah, okay.
So it looks like our nextepisode is going to be about
congressional UAP hearings.
So I've been hearing about this, I've watched some of the stuff
, so I know a little bit aboutwhat's going on and I also know
it's a really big deal.
So we have some questions andwe'll have some answers
(38:09):
Hopefully correct answers.
So, travis and I don't knowmuch about this I don't know
anything about it, surprisingnobody.
Travis (38:18):
Um, this is going to
turn out exactly the way all
these quizzes turned out, with abig goose egg on my side and
probably, uh, a blue ribbon onyours.
Is that what we're doing?
Goose egg and a blue ribbon?
Josh (38:29):
yeah, I mean, if you don't
want the goose egg, I'll take
it I mean like you're talkingabout a real goose egg.
Travis (38:35):
Yeah, I want, I want the
blue ribbon.
Josh (38:38):
Oh well, that's mine.
You can't have both.
What I want the blue ribbon,and if you don't want the egg,
I'll take the egg and keep theblue ribbon.
Travis (38:45):
Okay, well, josh gets
both now.
Josh (38:48):
Okay, so here we go.
Here's our baseline quiz on thecongressional UAP hearings.
I'm really excited to do thisepisode.
Travis (38:55):
This isn't the one we're
expecting to happen, right?
This is just like.
Josh (38:59):
We're talking about the
hearings, so the hearings that
have happened so far, since,whatever year?
Travis (39:05):
I don't know, that's
what I'm saying?
Josh (39:06):
That's the first question.
Travis (39:07):
What it is, yeah, okay,
yeah, we'll see if that's what
I'm saying, that's the firstquestion.
Josh (39:09):
What it is.
Travis (39:11):
Yeah.
Josh (39:11):
Okay, when did the first
public US congressional hearings
on UFOs since 1966 take place?
2017?
Mm-hmm.
2022?
Mm-hmm.
2019?
Mm-hmm.
2024?
Mm-hmm.
So when did the first?
What do you think?
I think 2022.
I think 2022.
I think that as well.
Oh, I don't know if it's right,but I just remember, during
(39:33):
lockdown.
There was some stuff.
Travis (39:36):
There was some stuff
that happened and we're like
this is the least.
Yeah, Interesting thing thathappened on this new cycle is
that the government acknowledgedthat there's a possibility that
alien life exists.
Josh (39:48):
Yeah, covid happened.
Everyone was in awe for a dayand then they just forgot about
it.
Yep, yeah, we both said 2022.
Next question what historicalevent did Representative Mace
cite as a reason for continuedpublic interest in UAPs?
Is it the Phoenix Lightsincident, the Roswell incident,
the Kenneth Arnold sighting orthe Malmstrom Air Force Base
(40:12):
incident?
Travis (40:13):
Okay, so we haven't
talked about the latter two.
Josh (40:16):
We did, kenneth Arnold.
Travis (40:18):
Barely.
Josh (40:18):
I think it was a shorter
episode.
Travis (40:20):
It was an entire episode
on Kenneth Arnold, though,
wasn't it?
Josh (40:22):
Mm-hmm.
Travis (40:24):
Oh fuck, that's why I do
so well on these.
Josh (40:26):
That was the guy in Idaho.
Travis (40:28):
Okay, we've done three
of these as episodes but we have
not done the maelstrom airforce base incident, so I am
going to.
What do you tell me?
Since I answered first lasttime, you tell me what your
answer is?
I think it is the phoenixlights incident okay but I don't
know because kurt russell,being a celebrity, helped move
(40:51):
that needle forward a little bit.
Josh (40:54):
Yeah, I think he was
trying to get some kudos from
Kurt.
Who was trying to get kudosfrom Kurt the?
Travis (40:58):
government.
Josh (40:59):
Representative Mace.
Travis (41:00):
Oh yeah, I think his
wife had a birthday coming up
and she's a really big fan.
Josh (41:03):
Okay, so I think the
Phoenix Lights.
What do you?
Travis (41:05):
think I don't know, I
don't know, I don't know
anything about Malmstrom AirForce Base.
Josh (41:11):
I don't either.
Travis (41:11):
I'm going to say that,
okay, just because.
Josh (41:15):
I was tempted.
Travis (41:16):
Yeah, okay, I'm picking
that as a lucky dip.
Josh (41:20):
All right.
So next question what specificpiece of legislation was
mentioned as a potential modelfor handling the disclosure of
UAP-related information?
Is it the Freedom ofInformation Act, the National
Security Act of 1947, the JFKAssassination Records Collection
Act or the Intelligence Reformand Terrorism Prevention Act of
(41:43):
2004?
Travis (41:44):
I don't know.
I'm going to say Freedom ofInformation Act.
Josh (41:48):
I mean that would make the
most sense.
Travis (41:50):
Disclosing this is
information but who knows, like
how wild these, I mean they,they could be citing all sorts
of acts and like trials andcourt cases and who knows?
But I'm gonna say, like as anumbrella, as a safety freedom of
information act, which is liketrying to democratize all
information all information isimportant yep, release it all
(42:12):
and we'll decide what we'regoing to do with it.
Josh (42:14):
Yeah, so that is what I'm
going to pick.
Travis (42:16):
You're going to be wrong
, so just get used to that Okay.
Okay, just because I picked it.
Josh (42:20):
I know I've come to terms
with that, all right.
Next question what term didDavid Grush prefer to use when
describing what was retrievedfrom crashed UAP?
Was it non-human bodies, aliens, pilots or biologics?
I think I know the answer butyou should Non-human bodies.
Travis (42:40):
We talked about this on
the Baubles R episode.
I don't know who had found it.
I'm just saying that is mymemory, but we all know my
memory sucks because I don'tremember an entire episode that
we recorded.
Josh (42:51):
That's okay.
Travis (42:52):
So non-human bodies is
what I'm going to say.
Josh (42:55):
Okay, I'm going to say
biologics.
Travis (42:58):
Oh, that was my gut.
I don't know what biologics are, so you could be right.
Josh (43:05):
Okay, so next question.
Travis (43:06):
Feeling pretty bad about
these, it's okay.
It's just normal.
Josh (43:12):
What was the name of the
unacknowledged special access
program entered into thecongressional record in 2024's
hearing?
Was it?
Travis (43:21):
Immaculate Constellation
.
That's really funny.
High five, Jordan.
Josh (43:26):
So first one that you
chuckled at Immaculate
Constellation, immaculateConstellation.
First one that you chuckled atImmaculate Constellation,
immaculate ConstellationPristine Array, faultless Stars
or Impeccable Entity?
I know the answer, so youanswer first.
Travis (43:39):
Okay, pristine Array is
going to be my.
What's the name of theunacknowledged Hold on, hold on,
hold on.
Let me read this again Shit.
I think it's either pristinearray or impeccable entity, but
I'm going to land on pristinearray.
Josh (43:52):
Okay, that's great.
I am going to pick immaculateconstellation, oh shit.
Travis (43:58):
Really?
Yeah, you know the answer tothis.
Yeah, immaculate constellationis really funny.
Josh (44:03):
It is very funny until you
hear about it.
Travis (44:06):
Uh-oh.
Josh (44:07):
And I'm excited to dig
deeper into it because I don't
know.
Travis (44:09):
I thought that was a
joke answer.
Now I look like a total idiot.
Josh (44:12):
Well, you know what?
Well, it was a redacted,black-funded operation through
the Pentagon.
I'm talking about just the nameof it.
Travis (44:18):
I'm not talking about
any of the documents within this
.
Well, what if all the redactedprograms are funny names.
I think that would rule.
It would be so funny.
Josh (44:27):
Okay, last, that would be
so funny.
Okay, last question which ofthe following actions was
specifically recommended by awitness during one of the
hearings to improve civilian UAPreporting?
Is it establishing a dedicatedhotline for UAP sightings,
leveraging NASA's AviationSafety Reporting System, asrs,
creating a new government agencyfocused solely on UAPs, or
(44:51):
mandating that all pilots reportany unusual aerial sightings?
I think it should be all ofthem, first of all.
Travis (44:58):
I agree.
Mandating that all pilotsreport any unusual aerial
sightings, though, is like howdo you report on that?
That's a subjective thing.
Yeah, because one person mightsee something and say oh, that's
obviously a fucking condor andsomebody might say like I don't,
then look into it right, butlike if you don't think it's
(45:18):
unusual, but you saw somethingand you don't report it, then
like what's done there?
That's I don't know.
Josh (45:24):
That actually sounds like
something that they would be
asking for, like follow-upaction on I don't like the
hotline thing, Cause I feel likethat's I mean, that sounds like
that would be a phone thing,which.
Travis (45:35):
I mean it could be.
It could be like a hotline in arelative term, where it's like
a specific email address.
Josh (45:41):
Or a website?
Yeah, I don't know the answer.
So I'm going to say creating anew government agency focused
solely on UAPs.
Travis (45:52):
That's mine.
Josh (45:52):
I think that's right, but
I'm going to say mandating that
all pilots report any unusualaerial sightings, because it's
just like I mean that's a greatidea, because it has been taboo,
because people will get firedfor being crazy, it's just like,
yeah, okay, well, if somebodysees something we'll report it,
but like, don't hold your breath.
Travis (46:05):
It's like that low level
concession that you can make
you could just get people offtheir back.
They're like these guys keeptelling us that they're seeing
shit out there.
Josh (46:13):
Well this is what a
witness.
Travis (46:15):
You guys have to tell us
if you see weird shit.
Okay, we're all in agreement.
That's like a rule now.
Josh (46:20):
This is a witness.
That's what.
Travis (46:21):
I'm saying Right, but
they said that this is a witness
recommended.
Josh (46:25):
And some of the witnesses.
I do know we're pilots yes,that's what I'm saying.
Travis (46:29):
This is a low level
thing to get these people off
the government's back like, yeah, we're doing something about it
.
We told them that they have totell us and the government
doesn't have to do fuckinganything about it yeah, because
they don't nothing has to changeyeah, nothing does have to
change, except there might besome protection for the pilots
if they do.
Josh (46:48):
All right, let's submit
this.
Do you accuracy?
Okay, we got the first oneright 2022.
Travis (46:55):
Yeah, that's the first
one since then, and then it was
just like I said it fell offdramatically.
Yeah, so I was wrong.
Josh (47:02):
It was not the phoenix
lights that representative mace
cited, and it was not themaelstrom air force base.
It was the roswell incident.
Yeah, that's cool.
So next question what specificpiece of legislation was
mentioned?
It was not the Freedom Act,which is what we said.
We both said that that madesense.
Travis (47:18):
Could have been a wild
thing.
And yeah, the JFK AssassinationRecords Collection Act.
Josh (47:24):
Yeah, I don't know what
that act is.
Travis (47:27):
I don't either, but just
like taking a tert knowledge of
like that trial and there was alot that was being kept, and so
they use this.
They do this a lot in likecourt proceedings where they'll
reference another ruling andthen use that to be interpreted
into what it is that they'retrying here, and so they
probably use some aspect of that, like these JFK files had to be
released and they were doingthe same thing with Nixon, like
(47:49):
his Watergate stuff.
Josh (47:50):
Yeah, okay.
So next one.
What term did david grushprefer to use when describing
what was retrieved from crasheduap?
I said biologics, you saidnon-human bodies biologics was
correct.
Yeah, and it got reallyannoying how often he used it.
I remember that it was likeokay, we get it, you're being
careful with your words.
Next question what was the nameof the unacknowledged special
(48:13):
access program in thecongressional hearing in 2024?
Oh man, it was Immaculate.
Travis (48:20):
Consolation, which is
just so funny to me.
It is.
Josh (48:24):
And I'm super excited to
hear more about that.
Okay, because I hear it'sbatshit crazy.
Final question, last one whichof the following actions was
specifically recommended by thewitnesses?
I said creating a newgovernment agency.
That is wrong.
You said.
Travis (48:38):
I said mandating that
all pilots report any unusual
aerial sightings.
Josh (48:42):
That's wrong.
It was leveraging NASA'saviation safety reporting system
.
Travis (48:46):
I think that that was
probably still right though what
I said.
I bet that they did tell theirpilots hey, you got to report
all this stuff, but it's notgoing to change anything else
that they do.
They're probably already doingit, but now it's just like well,
it's on record.
Now you have to do it.
Josh (49:00):
The main point of these
hearings is the safety of humans
.
Yeah, and there's been crazyincidences with pilots where
some planes have been clipped byUAPs.
I mean some of these pilotscoming in and testifying.
They are testifying becausethey want their fellow pilots to
be safe, so it would make sensefor them to put something like
that into place.
(49:20):
Well, thank you for listening.
This has been a pleasure.
I am excited to do this nextepisode.
Full of hot takes Super hottakes.
We're excited to hear from youguys and what you guys think and
we will talk to you next timeyou listen.
Bye.