April 25, 2025 • 26 mins
Flying saucers, close encounters, and the origin of a pop culture phenomenon!
This week, Travis and Josh delve into the story of Kenneth Arnold, the pilot whose 1947 sighting sparked the world's fascination with UFOs. Was it a military operation, a trick of the light, or something truly otherworldly?
Join us as we explore Arnold's incredible account, the birth of the term 'flying saucer,' and the fascinating start of our modern UFO obsession.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh (00:03):
Aliens Aliens, yes.
Travis (00:09):
But maybe no.
Welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no.
I'm travis, I'm josh.
This is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title.
(00:30):
What did we talk about lastweek?
Josh (00:33):
I was just gonna ask you the same thing.
Ah, damn it, you don't remembereither it was about rendlesham.
Travis (00:41):
Ah, the forest.
Okay, all right.
So what do you remember aboutrendlesham?
Josh (00:46):
it was spooky rendless ham rendal, rendal, see ham yeah I
remember we both came to theconclusion that it just seemed
as though there was just theperfect mix of scenarios that
happened by chance, that spookeda group of people into thinking
that there was something therethat potentially wasn't.
But there were some otherthings that made us believe that
(01:07):
something was there.
Travis (01:09):
Yeah, so did we come down on a maybe.
Josh (01:11):
I did maybe and you did maybe.
I was surprised that you didmaybe because there was a lot of
evidence against it.
Travis (01:17):
I think I just wanted to believe yeah, We've been doing
this for a couple episodes nowand I'm just itching now for
something that may be whathappens on this episode.
So today we're going to betalking about Kenneth Arnold.
Josh (01:29):
Yeah, a local boy.
Travis (01:31):
In a roundabout way.
He didn't start here locally,but he ended up here in Boise.
Yes, we are based out of Boise.
Yeah, go ahead and bleep thatout, so the government can't
track us.
Josh (01:40):
Oh well, they already knew they had to have.
Travis (01:41):
Maybe the fbi was looking at a checklist and then
going through like we can'treally source where these guys
are from, they're gonna screw up.
They're gonna say the name oftheir city and then you did it,
and now they're gonna know yeah,we're talking about kenneth
arnold.
Josh (01:54):
Uh, he's from the town we're from.
He opened up a business here.
Travis (01:59):
He sold firefighting equipment sure, yeah, what else
was he?
Uh, hobbyist pilot had had hisown plane was flying around,
which led him to his sighting.
Uh, this was near mount rainieryeah, it was.
Josh (02:13):
Uh, june 24th 1947 he got the word that there was a
military transport plane thatwent missing and he's just like
well, I have time, I have aplane, I'm experienced and I'm
going to go out and search forit oh, he was on like a.
I thought he was just liketooting around in the skies
there was a reward, so heactually was looking for the
(02:35):
plane for the reward.
Travis (02:36):
Okay a plane that had gone down it went missing.
Josh (02:39):
So they didn't know what was going on.
They imagined it went down.
I mean, that's the logicalexplanation.
I can't.
It can't fly forever.
No, that's too bad.
So yeah, he was looking, it wasa very clear, sunny afternoon,
very experienced, very smart man, and he flew over a rugged
terrain this area right outsideof mount rainier in washington
(03:02):
and something caught his eye.
Travis (03:03):
So this is during the day.
This is during the daytime.
This is kind of at least insome of the stories we've been
talking about kind of an anomalyright to see a daytime and to
have a daytime sighting.
Most of these happen atnighttime.
Josh (03:16):
They exist there are daytime ones.
Most of the the things we hearit's at night.
I think it's easier to seethings in the sky at night,
especially if there's lights oranything like that.
Like I don't notice airplanesway up in the sky as often as I
would at night that's alsobecause we never look up.
Travis (03:33):
I haven't looked up in years.
Josh (03:34):
No, that's no because we're dealing with depression
yeah, most days I don't evenlook in the mirror for the fear
of what I might see.
Yeah, talk about a day ruiner.
Travis (03:44):
I I'd actually do the opposite when you only look in
the mirror.
I only look in the mirror whenI'm on acid or mushrooms oh,
I've heard not to do that.
Josh (03:53):
Yeah, ruins your time yeah , I, I don't know, I wouldn't
know.
So, yeah, he was flying overthis rugged terrain.
Yeah, all forest out in themiddle of nowhere all stems, all
sticks what is that?
A joint joke?
Travis (04:09):
what you want is no stems, no sticks.
Josh (04:10):
He saw all stems, all sticks because he's in the
forest no, I get it it's likethe opposite of what you'd want
with your joint yeah, but thisguy was a pilot, so he probably
wasn't smoking.
I don't think so.
He saw a bright light, a flashof bright light, and thinking it
might be a reflection ofanother plane, he scanned the
sky because that's what he'slooking for.
He's looking for a plane, butwhat he saw was not a
(04:32):
conventional aircraft.
Right, it was somethingspookier.
He described nine objectsflying in formation, moving at
incredible speed, faster thananything he's ever witnessed in
his time as a pilot speed fasterthan anything he's ever
witnessed in his time as a pilot.
These crafts were unlikeanything he'd seen before.
Shaped like crescent moons orflat discs, they moved in a way
that defied logic, skimmingthrough the air.
(04:53):
So I'm going to stop rightthere.
On the quiz last week, oh boy II remember acing no, you aced
it 100 wrong.
But we did have the discussionof the difference between a
flying saucer flat disc orcrescent moon.
Yeah, and you said horseshoe aswell.
Travis (05:11):
He described it as a delta shape.
I don't know what that means.
What is a delta shape?
Josh (05:16):
I don't know.
Through researching I do knowwhat it looks like, but I
wouldn't know how to describe adelta shape Like a Batman
throwing star with rounded wings, like coming back kind of delta
is greek letter of the alphabet.
Travis (05:30):
It's the one that looks like a triangle okay.
Josh (05:34):
So he saw these things and they were skimming through the
air.
Travis (05:37):
He estimated their speed at an astonishing 1200 miles
per hour, faster than anyaircraft in existence at the
time he was flying in anairplane, high out of his mind,
smoking that sweet chiba whichwe just talked about, and made
these complex calculations withhow fast.
What an idiot.
What a dumb idiot, because hehad said it was going like 1200
(06:00):
miles an hour when they foundout it was actually going 16.
So he's 400 miles off.
What a moron.
Yeah, do you even math?
Yeah, do you even math?
Josh (06:08):
So, yeah, he estimated it was going 1,200 miles per hour,
1,000 in any aircraft and theyflew erratically, weaving and
darting in and out of themountain peaks, maintaining
formation but moving as if undersome kind of intelligent
control, and the sighting onlylasted a few minutes intelligent
control and the sighting onlylasted a few minutes.
Travis (06:26):
That would be spooky.
It'd be really spooky,especially back in 1947, when
our airways weren't so pollutedwith traffic right, yeah, it was
mostly just like crop dustersor like an occasional military
plane.
Josh (06:38):
You wouldn't really see something flying over the forest
like that, no, and like apersonal airplane yeah, and he
didn't get freaked out becausehis first thought was that he
just assumed it was somemilitary operation or training
flight.
But upon landing in yakima,washington, arnold quickly
reported what he had seen,describing the bizarre objects
in detail, and it was soonpicked up by local media and
(07:00):
then spread like wildfirethroughout the whole nation.
Arnold told the press theylooked like a saucer skipping on
water and when he was misquotedby a journalist, the term
flying saucer was born.
This is the OG, the original Idon't want to say gangster the
original gawker.
Travis (07:18):
There we go, nailed it.
Josh (07:20):
Yeah, thank you.
But despite all this worldwideattention, skepticism followed
close behind because the U Smilitary investigated Arnold's
claims, offering variousexplanations, from mirages to
weather phenomena.
However, arnold was adamantwhat he saw was real and it
wasn't like anything from thisworld.
Yeah, and there was otherpeople that saw things that day
(07:42):
as well in the surrounding areas.
He wasn't alone in what he saw.
Yeah, in the years thatfollowed, kenneth Arnold's
sighting would be linked tocountless other UFO reports,
including the infamous Roswellincident, which occurred just
weeks later, and there wasanother one that occurred right
after as well, that a guyactually took a picture, and the
picture looks exactly like thedrawing that Kenneth Arnold drew
(08:05):
.
Travis (08:05):
Yeah, kind of like that Leonardo DiCaprio meme where
he's holding a drink, pointingat the TV from Once Upon a Time
in Hollywood.
Yeah, where he's like, ha, ha,yep, that's my ship, that's it.
Josh (08:16):
Y'all seen it.
I don't know if those drawingsthat he had had been published
by the media, if those wentnationwide too and then someone
was able to duplicate it, put ablack cutout on a string and
take a picture.
I don't know, that's apossibility.
I've seen people do that tofake UFO photos and videos.
But that would be reallyconvincing if those drawings
(08:37):
didn't go out into the world andthat he was able to be like
look, it's the same thing.
This is exactly what I saw.
Some people actually speculatedthat Arnold's sighting and the
Roswell crash were connected topieces of a much larger puzzle.
Yeah, like that was the shipbefore it crashed at Roswell
right.
Yeah, it's possible, because thesighting that the guy took
pictures of was in Arizona.
(08:57):
A couple weeks later.
Hey, yeah, hey, yeah, that'sthere in the place and that guy
a couple weeks later, the men inblack basically showed up and
took all his shit, thephotographer shit yeah, yeah,
took the negatives of it theytook negatives and then they
said it was cia and fbi two guysfollow up with the fbi.
Travis (09:18):
They're like uh no, you got the wrong, guys, buddy yeah
that didn't, that didn't happen.
Josh (09:23):
Go back to sleep, you sheep.
Travis (09:25):
Yeah, here's some.
Forget me nows.
Josh (09:28):
So to this day, the objects Kenneth Arnold saw still
remain unidentified and hissighting is considered one of
the most credible in UFO history, and Arnold himself never
wavered in his account, even asdecades pass and skeptics
continue to raise questions.
So I think an importanttakeaway is that this guy was an
established businessman.
He was a pilot, I think he wasa deputy sheriff.
(09:50):
Like he, knew everyone,everyone knew him, people
believed him, and that's why thestory took flight is because
everyone knew that this guywasn't going to lie.
He was very respected in thecommunity and didn't he run for?
Travis (10:04):
He ran for Lieutenant Governor.
Josh (10:06):
Of Idaho.
Travis (10:07):
Yeah, but they said no.
That's sad.
If he were to run nowadays,though, it would be like a
shoe-in.
They wouldn't even hold anelection.
They'd be like you believe inflying saucers and all these
other conspiracies.
Yeah, you're in, get it yeah.
Josh (10:23):
So a few important takeaways is that what he saw,
what Kenneth Arnold saw on June24th 1947, it's widely
considered the catalyst for themodern fascination with UFOs.
So as one of the firstsightings, he was misinterpreted
and coined the term flyingsaucer.
Travis (10:39):
Well, he didn't.
So this is from the Wikipediapage.
Years later Arnold claimed hetold Bill Beckett, who is a
journalist, that they flewerratically like a saucer if you
skip it across the water.
It goes on to say Arnold feltthat he had been misquoted,
since the description referredto the object's motion rather
than their shape.
Thus Beckett has often beencredited with first using flying
(11:02):
saucer and supposedlymisquoting Arnold.
But the term does not appear inBeckett's earlier articles.
Instead, his first article ofJune 25th says only he said he
cited nine saucer-like aircraftflying in formation.
So I still think that he wasmisquoted.
He said saucer-like and thenthat wording got changed a
little bit through otherreleases of these articles and
the term flying saucer wascoined.
Josh (11:21):
Which is cool.
It's nice knowing the originstories.
Travis (11:25):
Yeah sure, flying saucer was coined, which is cool.
It's nice knowing the originstories.
Yeah sure goes on to say heclung to a story of shiny, flat
objects racing over the cascademountains with a peculiar
weaving motion, like the tail ofa chinese kite.
He also described the objectsas saucer like and their motion
like fish flipping in the sun.
Arnold describes the objects asflat, like a pie pan and
somewhat bat shaped.
Holy shit, batman wasn't untiljune 28th that beckett first
(11:47):
used the term flying disc, butnot flying saucer okay, but the
whole world knew about itbecause everyone reads the
newspaper right back then yeah,that's why I was late today.
I had to.
I had to fold up my newspaper.
Those are hard to fold back upand get everything back in place
well, especially what you dowith it.
Josh (12:03):
You read the comics.
Travis (12:04):
And then I try to put the comics back so it looks like
I didn't start with the comics,yeah, and then I look at the TV
guide.
Josh (12:10):
And you crumple the business section to make it look
like you read it thoroughlyMm-hmm, yep, I get it.
No, they are hard.
That's why I don't open them.
No, I last time I saw anewspaper.
Travis (12:27):
It's been years, I think .
Josh (12:28):
I saw one on the counter at a grocery store, once an
actual newspaper.
Yeah, wow, sunday it was thick.
Yeah, that's when they had thecolored comics.
Travis (12:32):
So, yeah, what you're saying, I mean the whole
misinterpretation it's just likesensationalizing it and people
wanting to make that story theirown, and so I think, but it
permanently, yeah, just stuck,just like a lot of things.
Well, I mean flying sauc,flying saucers.
It elicits a cool image in yourhead like a thing flying
through the air.
It just it sounds cool, yeah.
Josh (12:52):
And it's something that you can visualize.
Travis (12:53):
It's absolutely something you can visualize like
a saucer.
Everybody's seen a saucer likea plate, something shaped like
that, flying through the air.
Josh (13:07):
Well.
It also exemplifies how popularnarratives can overshadow
nuanced details and how a massof people can be tricked into
thinking one thing when thatwasn't actually what he saw.
So unexplained phenomena andhigh strangeness.
Arnold's daughter, kim, laterrevealed that the full story
involved much more than thewidely publicized nuts and bolts
aspect.
She described paranormal eventsin their home, a shift in
Arnold's understanding towardsbiological or spiritual
(13:27):
interpretations and a sense thatobjects were connected to the
afterlife.
Travis (13:32):
What.
Josh (13:33):
Yeah, this highlights the frequent presence of high
strangeness alongside UFOsightings, a theme often
downplayed or ignored in themainstream discussion.
Travis (13:42):
So she had like a religious experience.
Josh (13:44):
Is that hearing that right ?
I would say more spiritual inthe sense that objects were
connected to the afterlife.
It sounds like a lot ofsightings.
The aftermath is strangeness,high strangeness.
Travis (13:56):
Well, we talked about this before.
Our brains have a hard timeidentifying things that are
abnormal, so we try to normalizeit in our head Right.
And so she was uh, you know,maybe a spiritual or religious
person and was trying to make itmake sense in her head.
Josh (14:12):
She was saying that she watched this and this happened
to Arnold.
Yeah, so she describeddifferent paranormal events in
the house.
I don't know what thoseparanormal events are and there
was a shift in her dad'sArnold's understanding towards
biological or spiritualinterpretation.
How old was he?
The information I don't have.
Travis (14:32):
But still older than one .
So a lot of that could just bechild's stupid memory.
Josh (14:39):
Yeah, but children pick up on a lot of stuff.
I mean, if there's a noticeableswitch in the behavior of a
parent, I mean that's going tobe noticeable even to like a
seven year old.
So in conclusion of this wholeKenneth Arnold thing, it's
fascinating because it doesn'tseem as like other than the
government no one really doubtsit.
Is he related to hey Arnold,the Nickelodeon cartoon?
Travis (15:03):
He had a football head.
Josh (15:04):
Yeah, saucer head.
So oh, probably, or it's basedafter him I think so, yeah, yeah
, that sounds right.
so the story of kent arnold kindof highlights the complexities
in interpreting andcommunicating extraordinary
experiences.
You know, I mean this guy, verywell versed, very well-versed,
very well-spoken, couldn'tcommunicate to the masses
(15:25):
without it being changed Evenslightly.
But even a slight change canchange the whole narrative In
more than a simple UFO report.
It signifies a turning point incultural history which is just
bonkers.
It marked the beginning of asustained public interest in
UFOs, sparking countlesstheories, investigations, and
continues to fuel debate andresearch even to this day, even
(15:49):
tomorrow, tomorrow.
Yeah, this is going to happentomorrow.
There's going to be debate anddiscussion tomorrow.
I don't know what to say tothat.
You can't, no, you can't argueit Uh-uh.
So I think overall, if we'retalking about aliens, yes, no,
or maybe Does this further, ouridea of aliens existing?
Travis (16:12):
Does it fall in the maybe camp where there's not
really enough definitively toinform our opinion either way?
And then, like a hard no, like,for me, the aerial school was a
hard no.
Josh (16:25):
Because of that one guy.
Travis (16:26):
That cool guy, the very cool guy.
Josh (16:28):
Yeah, he's going to listen .
Travis (16:30):
No, yes that, but he was also like a cool.
Josh (16:34):
That's because he was smoking a cigarette.
Travis (16:36):
Yeah, he was smoking a cigarette.
He was also just like one ofthe core older kids and I just
don't trust kids like as a group.
I don't think you should valuetheir opinion.
They're all a bunch of dummieslike grow up already, okay, stop
.
Josh (16:51):
Okay.
So when it comes to aliens, yesor maybe no, I would say yes In
this situation.
I think there's enough proof.
There's not really anythingdiscredit him.
There's other people fromaround the same area and across
the country shortly after thatsaw it.
The governments or whateverthey are, men and blacks
(17:12):
intervening with some of thatstuff.
It just seems as though theywere taking it way more
seriously than just a story.
So I would say yes on this,okay.
Travis (17:22):
I would say I'm still having a hard time committing to
a yes.
I don't think I've said yes yet.
This is probably-.
Josh (17:28):
Other than you do believe, but you just want the proof to
believe.
Travis (17:32):
I believe, because of how big the universe is, and I
just feel like there has to besomething else out there.
Otherwise it's absolutelyterrifying, but I think this is
the closest I've ever come to ayes.
Okay, I'm still in the maybe,but like I'm getting there, I
would say like 75% of the way toa yes from a maybe.
I'm great with that and I thinka lot of that has to do with the
(17:55):
Roswell incident happening soclose to this.
And then you know some pictures, whether those were faked or
not.
But all of these testimoniesand stories corroborating each
other happening within the sametime frame I mean we're talking
about a couple weeks.
It's very clean this spottinghappened, and then roswell
happening a couple weeks laterand then a picture surfacing.
So this, this gets me closerand they're credible enough
(18:19):
sources.
I mean, we're talking aboutsomething that happened 75 plus
years ago, right?
Yeah, some of that testimony maynot be true, like we found with
the article that was releasedwhere they took a little bit of
artistic license with how he wasdescribing the ships.
There's always going to be, Ifeel, like that element of these
stories.
You know media or thegovernment will take artistic
(18:41):
license with how they describeit or redact it and remove some
information.
So I don't know.
This gets me the closest to ayes.
I'm all for it.
I like how this show has becomevery personal for you, josh,
and you're just talking to me,trying to get me to believe in
these incidents.
Josh (19:01):
Well, I have nothing else going on.
Travis (19:03):
This is it All right.
Well, there you go.
You can put a little yes-ish inyour column of convincing
Travis that these things arereal.
Josh (19:11):
If you guys want to share what you guys think yes, maybe
or no let us know.
There's going to be fan mail,so you can just message us right
away through the link and we'llget it.
Travis (19:23):
Our inbox is going to fill up very fast, so get your
responses in early.
Josh (19:27):
Oh yeah, it's just going to be me Just spamming yourself.
Yeah, I like you guys.
I like that Travis guy.
He should believe more Touche.
And also it's time for ourbaseline quiz.
Oh God, the teaser for the nextepisode, boy, because Travis
(19:52):
has cheated once.
We do not get the quiz untilhalfway through the recording.
Travis (19:58):
This is going to be good .
This is one of my doingresearch specifically for this
podcast.
This was a topic that I had alot of fun looking into.
Josh (20:07):
The topic next week is the abduction of Betty and Barney
Hill.
Mm-hmm.
So first question in what yeardid the abduction of Betty and
Barney Hill take place?
Okay, is it A 1958, b 1961, c1965, or D 1970?
(20:28):
Yeah, I'm going to.
I think 61.
61.
I'm going to do that.
What do you think?
61.
Oh, oh, you're saying that wassuch authority, mm-hmm.
Okay, just a going to do that.
What do you think?
61.
Oh, oh, you're saying that wassuch authority, mm-hmm, Okay.
Travis (20:40):
Just a gut feeling.
Okay, from what?
Josh (20:42):
I remember.
So next question, mm-hmm, wherewere the Hills abducted?
A New Hampshire, b Connecticut,c New York or D Rhode Island?
Travis (20:55):
I'll go first.
I'm going to say New Hampshire.
Josh (20:57):
I was thinking that too.
Did you cheat?
No, I didn't cheat.
I got the quiz the same time asyou, yeah, but you're living
with the researcher.
We don't talk.
Are you kidding me?
Travis (21:10):
I'm sensing a little bit of collusion.
We'll see.
Well, I'm going to pick NewHampshire because you seem like
you do know it and you're upsetthat I picked the same thing.
Josh (21:21):
This is a great podcast scene, yeah.
Next question yeah, what werethey doing before the abduction
took place?
A having a picnic in themountains, B changing a flat
tire, C driving home from avacation or D getting pulled
over by the police?
Travis (21:37):
Having a picnic in the mountains is what I think, but
also driving home from avacation or d getting pulled
over by the police.
Uh, having a picnic in themountains is what I think, but
also driving home from vacationthose could be the same thing
yeah, I remember seeing thatthey were in a car, they were
driving, so I'm going to saydriving home from but what were
they doing before the abductiontook place?
Josh (21:51):
driving question.
They were driving home from avacation.
Oh, you seem pretty sure.
Well, I've.
I've seen documentaries andthis is a pretty big, big thing.
I don't know what they're doingbefore they're driving.
They could have been doing allthese things.
That's the question and howmuch time before these things?
Well, that was a question.
Travis (22:11):
What were?
Josh (22:11):
they doing a year before the you know, yeah.
Travis (22:14):
Time.
So what was your answer?
Uh, mine was having a picnic inthe mountains okay, and mine's
driving home, yeah.
Josh (22:20):
Next question what was the hill's occupations?
A barney was a bus driver andbetty was a school teacher.
B barney was a postal workerand betty was a social worker.
C barney was a police officerand betty was a nurse.
Or d?
Barney was a police officer andBetty was a nurse.
Or D?
Barney was a constructionworker and Betty was a
stay-at-home mom.
I'm kind of stumped.
(22:41):
I don't think Barney was apolice officer no, I don't think
so either.
I'm thinking either postalworker and social worker, or bus
driver and teacher okay, well,what's your final answer?
I'm gonna say bus driver andteacher.
Okay, what do you say?
um, I am going to say, uh,postal worker and social worker
(23:01):
okay, now our last question howdid the hills alleged abduction
story become public knowledge?
A they wrote a book about theirexperience.
B a reporter obtained arecording of the hills speaking
about their experience.
C the air force released thefindings of project blue book.
Or.
D they announced it at a ufoconvention.
(23:22):
Okay, I'm gonna say a yeah,they wrote a book, just because
that seems well, they did.
They did write a book, but Idon't know if that was before
after.
Travis (23:30):
that's what I'm saying because I'm I'm doing what they
do on, like uh who wants to be amillionaire.
So, like I know, they wrotebook.
I don't know if the book waswhat made them popular or if
they got to be popular and thenwere asked to write a book.
The book they wrote was like itcame out in the sixties late
sixties, if I remember right andthen there was a like a made
for TV show that came out in theseventies.
Josh (23:52):
It was based on the book, based on their Well, I also
remember they went through thehypnosis and that was recorded.
Yeah, and was that post book orpre-book?
I don't know.
They could have given that to areporter so what's your answer?
A reporter obtained a recording.
Okay, I'm gonna say that.
And you say the book.
I say a book.
Okay, I'm gonna submit thisquiz god, I probably I'm gonna.
Travis (24:12):
It's gonna be embarrassing when I get nothing
right again because I was soconfident.
Josh (24:18):
Oh my gosh.
So question one what year didthe abduction take place?
We both said 1961.
That is correct.
Where were the Hills abducted?
Second question New Hampshire?
We both said that is correct.
Travis (24:31):
Oh, you look like you're getting 100%.
Josh (24:33):
Question three what were they doing before the abduction
took place?
Travis (24:37):
You said Having a picnic with their bears Cute.
Josh (24:40):
Yeah, and I said driving home from a vacation.
Driving home from vacation wasthe correct answer.
Travis (24:46):
All right, really lean into that.
Okay, I'm a dumb dummy, legallya moron.
Josh (24:50):
The next question was what was the Hill's occupation?
Travis (24:58):
I said Barney was a bus driver and betty was a school
teacher.
What did you say?
Josh (25:00):
uh, postal worker and social worker and the postal
worker and social worker werecorrect.
I was incorrect.
You hear that, travis.
I was wrong, you were.
So how did the hill's allegedobjection story become public
knowledge?
You said they wrote a bookabout their experience.
I said a reporter obtainedrecording of the Hills speaking
about their experience and thatwas the correct answer.
(25:20):
It's the recording.
Travis (25:21):
So I talked you into the correct answer because you were
going to say book too.
I was.
Can you do?
Josh (25:25):
that yeah, so they must've wrote the book after the
experience yeah.
Should be a good recording.
Yeah, that'll be a fun one.
There's a lot there.
Travis (25:37):
Don't we deserve a little bit of fun on this show?
Josh (25:39):
I've always said that I know you usually just edit it
out, because you say it so often, I do.
Well, thank you for listeningagain or, if it's your first
time, thank you for finding us.
Travis (25:46):
Oh, what a.
What a bad move, though, Ifyou're listening for the first
time this is okay, give themsome credit.
Josh (25:51):
They may not be the weirdos.
No, they, they should go backand listen to the beginning.
Yeah, just for context.
Yeah, if you want to know whowe are and what we know and what
we don't know uh, we don't knowmuch yeah, definitely give some
of the other stuff a listen andenjoy the rest of your life
until you listen to the nextepisode.
Travis (26:10):
Wow, okay, bye you.
Aliens Aliens, yes.
Travis (00:09):
But maybe no.
Welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no.
I'm travis, I'm josh.
This is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title.
(00:30):
What did we talk about lastweek?
Josh (00:33):
I was just gonna ask you the same thing.
Ah, damn it, you don't remembereither it was about rendlesham.
Travis (00:41):
Ah, the forest.
Okay, all right.
So what do you remember aboutrendlesham?
Josh (00:46):
it was spooky rendless ham rendal, rendal, see ham yeah I
remember we both came to theconclusion that it just seemed
as though there was just theperfect mix of scenarios that
happened by chance, that spookeda group of people into thinking
that there was something therethat potentially wasn't.
But there were some otherthings that made us believe that
(01:07):
something was there.
Travis (01:09):
Yeah, so did we come down on a maybe.
Josh (01:11):
I did maybe and you did maybe.
I was surprised that you didmaybe because there was a lot of
evidence against it.
Travis (01:17):
I think I just wanted to believe yeah, We've been doing
this for a couple episodes nowand I'm just itching now for
something that may be whathappens on this episode.
So today we're going to betalking about Kenneth Arnold.
Josh (01:29):
Yeah, a local boy.
Travis (01:31):
In a roundabout way.
He didn't start here locally,but he ended up here in Boise.
Yes, we are based out of Boise.
Yeah, go ahead and bleep thatout, so the government can't
track us.
Josh (01:40):
Oh well, they already knew they had to have.
Travis (01:41):
Maybe the fbi was looking at a checklist and then
going through like we can'treally source where these guys
are from, they're gonna screw up.
They're gonna say the name oftheir city and then you did it,
and now they're gonna know yeah,we're talking about kenneth
arnold.
Josh (01:54):
Uh, he's from the town we're from.
He opened up a business here.
Travis (01:59):
He sold firefighting equipment sure, yeah, what else
was he?
Uh, hobbyist pilot had had hisown plane was flying around,
which led him to his sighting.
Uh, this was near mount rainieryeah, it was.
Josh (02:13):
Uh, june 24th 1947 he got the word that there was a
military transport plane thatwent missing and he's just like
well, I have time, I have aplane, I'm experienced and I'm
going to go out and search forit oh, he was on like a.
I thought he was just liketooting around in the skies
there was a reward, so heactually was looking for the
(02:35):
plane for the reward.
Travis (02:36):
Okay a plane that had gone down it went missing.
Josh (02:39):
So they didn't know what was going on.
They imagined it went down.
I mean, that's the logicalexplanation.
I can't.
It can't fly forever.
No, that's too bad.
So yeah, he was looking, it wasa very clear, sunny afternoon,
very experienced, very smart man, and he flew over a rugged
terrain this area right outsideof mount rainier in washington
(03:02):
and something caught his eye.
Travis (03:03):
So this is during the day.
This is during the daytime.
This is kind of at least insome of the stories we've been
talking about kind of an anomalyright to see a daytime and to
have a daytime sighting.
Most of these happen atnighttime.
Josh (03:16):
They exist there are daytime ones.
Most of the the things we hearit's at night.
I think it's easier to seethings in the sky at night,
especially if there's lights oranything like that.
Like I don't notice airplanesway up in the sky as often as I
would at night that's alsobecause we never look up.
Travis (03:33):
I haven't looked up in years.
Josh (03:34):
No, that's no because we're dealing with depression
yeah, most days I don't evenlook in the mirror for the fear
of what I might see.
Yeah, talk about a day ruiner.
Travis (03:44):
I I'd actually do the opposite when you only look in
the mirror.
I only look in the mirror whenI'm on acid or mushrooms oh,
I've heard not to do that.
Josh (03:53):
Yeah, ruins your time yeah , I, I don't know, I wouldn't
know.
So, yeah, he was flying overthis rugged terrain.
Yeah, all forest out in themiddle of nowhere all stems, all
sticks what is that?
A joint joke?
Travis (04:09):
what you want is no stems, no sticks.
Josh (04:10):
He saw all stems, all sticks because he's in the
forest no, I get it it's likethe opposite of what you'd want
with your joint yeah, but thisguy was a pilot, so he probably
wasn't smoking.
I don't think so.
He saw a bright light, a flashof bright light, and thinking it
might be a reflection ofanother plane, he scanned the
sky because that's what he'slooking for.
He's looking for a plane, butwhat he saw was not a
(04:32):
conventional aircraft.
Right, it was somethingspookier.
He described nine objectsflying in formation, moving at
incredible speed, faster thananything he's ever witnessed in
his time as a pilot speed fasterthan anything he's ever
witnessed in his time as a pilot.
These crafts were unlikeanything he'd seen before.
Shaped like crescent moons orflat discs, they moved in a way
that defied logic, skimmingthrough the air.
(04:53):
So I'm going to stop rightthere.
On the quiz last week, oh boy II remember acing no, you aced
it 100 wrong.
But we did have the discussionof the difference between a
flying saucer flat disc orcrescent moon.
Yeah, and you said horseshoe aswell.
Travis (05:11):
He described it as a delta shape.
I don't know what that means.
What is a delta shape?
Josh (05:16):
I don't know.
Through researching I do knowwhat it looks like, but I
wouldn't know how to describe adelta shape Like a Batman
throwing star with rounded wings, like coming back kind of delta
is greek letter of the alphabet.
Travis (05:30):
It's the one that looks like a triangle okay.
Josh (05:34):
So he saw these things and they were skimming through the
air.
Travis (05:37):
He estimated their speed at an astonishing 1200 miles
per hour, faster than anyaircraft in existence at the
time he was flying in anairplane, high out of his mind,
smoking that sweet chiba whichwe just talked about, and made
these complex calculations withhow fast.
What an idiot.
What a dumb idiot, because hehad said it was going like 1200
(06:00):
miles an hour when they foundout it was actually going 16.
So he's 400 miles off.
What a moron.
Yeah, do you even math?
Yeah, do you even math?
Josh (06:08):
So, yeah, he estimated it was going 1,200 miles per hour,
1,000 in any aircraft and theyflew erratically, weaving and
darting in and out of themountain peaks, maintaining
formation but moving as if undersome kind of intelligent
control, and the sighting onlylasted a few minutes intelligent
control and the sighting onlylasted a few minutes.
Travis (06:26):
That would be spooky.
It'd be really spooky,especially back in 1947, when
our airways weren't so pollutedwith traffic right, yeah, it was
mostly just like crop dustersor like an occasional military
plane.
Josh (06:38):
You wouldn't really see something flying over the forest
like that, no, and like apersonal airplane yeah, and he
didn't get freaked out becausehis first thought was that he
just assumed it was somemilitary operation or training
flight.
But upon landing in yakima,washington, arnold quickly
reported what he had seen,describing the bizarre objects
in detail, and it was soonpicked up by local media and
(07:00):
then spread like wildfirethroughout the whole nation.
Arnold told the press theylooked like a saucer skipping on
water and when he was misquotedby a journalist, the term
flying saucer was born.
This is the OG, the original Idon't want to say gangster the
original gawker.
Travis (07:18):
There we go, nailed it.
Josh (07:20):
Yeah, thank you.
But despite all this worldwideattention, skepticism followed
close behind because the U Smilitary investigated Arnold's
claims, offering variousexplanations, from mirages to
weather phenomena.
However, arnold was adamantwhat he saw was real and it
wasn't like anything from thisworld.
Yeah, and there was otherpeople that saw things that day
(07:42):
as well in the surrounding areas.
He wasn't alone in what he saw.
Yeah, in the years thatfollowed, kenneth Arnold's
sighting would be linked tocountless other UFO reports,
including the infamous Roswellincident, which occurred just
weeks later, and there wasanother one that occurred right
after as well, that a guyactually took a picture, and the
picture looks exactly like thedrawing that Kenneth Arnold drew
(08:05):
.
Travis (08:05):
Yeah, kind of like that Leonardo DiCaprio meme where
he's holding a drink, pointingat the TV from Once Upon a Time
in Hollywood.
Yeah, where he's like, ha, ha,yep, that's my ship, that's it.
Josh (08:16):
Y'all seen it.
I don't know if those drawingsthat he had had been published
by the media, if those wentnationwide too and then someone
was able to duplicate it, put ablack cutout on a string and
take a picture.
I don't know, that's apossibility.
I've seen people do that tofake UFO photos and videos.
But that would be reallyconvincing if those drawings
(08:37):
didn't go out into the world andthat he was able to be like
look, it's the same thing.
This is exactly what I saw.
Some people actually speculatedthat Arnold's sighting and the
Roswell crash were connected topieces of a much larger puzzle.
Yeah, like that was the shipbefore it crashed at Roswell
right.
Yeah, it's possible, because thesighting that the guy took
pictures of was in Arizona.
(08:57):
A couple weeks later.
Hey, yeah, hey, yeah, that'sthere in the place and that guy
a couple weeks later, the men inblack basically showed up and
took all his shit, thephotographer shit yeah, yeah,
took the negatives of it theytook negatives and then they
said it was cia and fbi two guysfollow up with the fbi.
Travis (09:18):
They're like uh no, you got the wrong, guys, buddy yeah
that didn't, that didn't happen.
Josh (09:23):
Go back to sleep, you sheep.
Travis (09:25):
Yeah, here's some.
Forget me nows.
Josh (09:28):
So to this day, the objects Kenneth Arnold saw still
remain unidentified and hissighting is considered one of
the most credible in UFO history, and Arnold himself never
wavered in his account, even asdecades pass and skeptics
continue to raise questions.
So I think an importanttakeaway is that this guy was an
established businessman.
He was a pilot, I think he wasa deputy sheriff.
(09:50):
Like he, knew everyone,everyone knew him, people
believed him, and that's why thestory took flight is because
everyone knew that this guywasn't going to lie.
He was very respected in thecommunity and didn't he run for?
Travis (10:04):
He ran for Lieutenant Governor.
Josh (10:06):
Of Idaho.
Travis (10:07):
Yeah, but they said no.
That's sad.
If he were to run nowadays,though, it would be like a
shoe-in.
They wouldn't even hold anelection.
They'd be like you believe inflying saucers and all these
other conspiracies.
Yeah, you're in, get it yeah.
Josh (10:23):
So a few important takeaways is that what he saw,
what Kenneth Arnold saw on June24th 1947, it's widely
considered the catalyst for themodern fascination with UFOs.
So as one of the firstsightings, he was misinterpreted
and coined the term flyingsaucer.
Travis (10:39):
Well, he didn't.
So this is from the Wikipediapage.
Years later Arnold claimed hetold Bill Beckett, who is a
journalist, that they flewerratically like a saucer if you
skip it across the water.
It goes on to say Arnold feltthat he had been misquoted,
since the description referredto the object's motion rather
than their shape.
Thus Beckett has often beencredited with first using flying
(11:02):
saucer and supposedlymisquoting Arnold.
But the term does not appear inBeckett's earlier articles.
Instead, his first article ofJune 25th says only he said he
cited nine saucer-like aircraftflying in formation.
So I still think that he wasmisquoted.
He said saucer-like and thenthat wording got changed a
little bit through otherreleases of these articles and
the term flying saucer wascoined.
Josh (11:21):
Which is cool.
It's nice knowing the originstories.
Travis (11:25):
Yeah sure, flying saucer was coined, which is cool.
It's nice knowing the originstories.
Yeah sure goes on to say heclung to a story of shiny, flat
objects racing over the cascademountains with a peculiar
weaving motion, like the tail ofa chinese kite.
He also described the objectsas saucer like and their motion
like fish flipping in the sun.
Arnold describes the objects asflat, like a pie pan and
somewhat bat shaped.
Holy shit, batman wasn't untiljune 28th that beckett first
(11:47):
used the term flying disc, butnot flying saucer okay, but the
whole world knew about itbecause everyone reads the
newspaper right back then yeah,that's why I was late today.
I had to.
I had to fold up my newspaper.
Those are hard to fold back upand get everything back in place
well, especially what you dowith it.
Josh (12:03):
You read the comics.
Travis (12:04):
And then I try to put the comics back so it looks like
I didn't start with the comics,yeah, and then I look at the TV
guide.
Josh (12:10):
And you crumple the business section to make it look
like you read it thoroughlyMm-hmm, yep, I get it.
No, they are hard.
That's why I don't open them.
No, I last time I saw anewspaper.
Travis (12:27):
It's been years, I think .
Josh (12:28):
I saw one on the counter at a grocery store, once an
actual newspaper.
Yeah, wow, sunday it was thick.
Yeah, that's when they had thecolored comics.
Travis (12:32):
So, yeah, what you're saying, I mean the whole
misinterpretation it's just likesensationalizing it and people
wanting to make that story theirown, and so I think, but it
permanently, yeah, just stuck,just like a lot of things.
Well, I mean flying sauc,flying saucers.
It elicits a cool image in yourhead like a thing flying
through the air.
It just it sounds cool, yeah.
Josh (12:52):
And it's something that you can visualize.
Travis (12:53):
It's absolutely something you can visualize like
a saucer.
Everybody's seen a saucer likea plate, something shaped like
that, flying through the air.
Josh (13:07):
Well.
It also exemplifies how popularnarratives can overshadow
nuanced details and how a massof people can be tricked into
thinking one thing when thatwasn't actually what he saw.
So unexplained phenomena andhigh strangeness.
Arnold's daughter, kim, laterrevealed that the full story
involved much more than thewidely publicized nuts and bolts
aspect.
She described paranormal eventsin their home, a shift in
Arnold's understanding towardsbiological or spiritual
(13:27):
interpretations and a sense thatobjects were connected to the
afterlife.
Travis (13:32):
What.
Josh (13:33):
Yeah, this highlights the frequent presence of high
strangeness alongside UFOsightings, a theme often
downplayed or ignored in themainstream discussion.
Travis (13:42):
So she had like a religious experience.
Josh (13:44):
Is that hearing that right ?
I would say more spiritual inthe sense that objects were
connected to the afterlife.
It sounds like a lot ofsightings.
The aftermath is strangeness,high strangeness.
Travis (13:56):
Well, we talked about this before.
Our brains have a hard timeidentifying things that are
abnormal, so we try to normalizeit in our head Right.
And so she was uh, you know,maybe a spiritual or religious
person and was trying to make itmake sense in her head.
Josh (14:12):
She was saying that she watched this and this happened
to Arnold.
Yeah, so she describeddifferent paranormal events in
the house.
I don't know what thoseparanormal events are and there
was a shift in her dad'sArnold's understanding towards
biological or spiritualinterpretation.
How old was he?
The information I don't have.
Travis (14:32):
But still older than one .
So a lot of that could just bechild's stupid memory.
Josh (14:39):
Yeah, but children pick up on a lot of stuff.
I mean, if there's a noticeableswitch in the behavior of a
parent, I mean that's going tobe noticeable even to like a
seven year old.
So in conclusion of this wholeKenneth Arnold thing, it's
fascinating because it doesn'tseem as like other than the
government no one really doubtsit.
Is he related to hey Arnold,the Nickelodeon cartoon?
Travis (15:03):
He had a football head.
Josh (15:04):
Yeah, saucer head.
So oh, probably, or it's basedafter him I think so, yeah, yeah
, that sounds right.
so the story of kent arnold kindof highlights the complexities
in interpreting andcommunicating extraordinary
experiences.
You know, I mean this guy, verywell versed, very well-versed,
very well-spoken, couldn'tcommunicate to the masses
(15:25):
without it being changed Evenslightly.
But even a slight change canchange the whole narrative In
more than a simple UFO report.
It signifies a turning point incultural history which is just
bonkers.
It marked the beginning of asustained public interest in
UFOs, sparking countlesstheories, investigations, and
continues to fuel debate andresearch even to this day, even
(15:49):
tomorrow, tomorrow.
Yeah, this is going to happentomorrow.
There's going to be debate anddiscussion tomorrow.
I don't know what to say tothat.
You can't, no, you can't argueit Uh-uh.
So I think overall, if we'retalking about aliens, yes, no,
or maybe Does this further, ouridea of aliens existing?
Travis (16:12):
Does it fall in the maybe camp where there's not
really enough definitively toinform our opinion either way?
And then, like a hard no, like,for me, the aerial school was a
hard no.
Josh (16:25):
Because of that one guy.
Travis (16:26):
That cool guy, the very cool guy.
Josh (16:28):
Yeah, he's going to listen .
Travis (16:30):
No, yes that, but he was also like a cool.
Josh (16:34):
That's because he was smoking a cigarette.
Travis (16:36):
Yeah, he was smoking a cigarette.
He was also just like one ofthe core older kids and I just
don't trust kids like as a group.
I don't think you should valuetheir opinion.
They're all a bunch of dummieslike grow up already, okay, stop
.
Josh (16:51):
Okay.
So when it comes to aliens, yesor maybe no, I would say yes In
this situation.
I think there's enough proof.
There's not really anythingdiscredit him.
There's other people fromaround the same area and across
the country shortly after thatsaw it.
The governments or whateverthey are, men and blacks
(17:12):
intervening with some of thatstuff.
It just seems as though theywere taking it way more
seriously than just a story.
So I would say yes on this,okay.
Travis (17:22):
I would say I'm still having a hard time committing to
a yes.
I don't think I've said yes yet.
This is probably-.
Josh (17:28):
Other than you do believe, but you just want the proof to
believe.
Travis (17:32):
I believe, because of how big the universe is, and I
just feel like there has to besomething else out there.
Otherwise it's absolutelyterrifying, but I think this is
the closest I've ever come to ayes.
Okay, I'm still in the maybe,but like I'm getting there, I
would say like 75% of the way toa yes from a maybe.
I'm great with that and I thinka lot of that has to do with the
(17:55):
Roswell incident happening soclose to this.
And then you know some pictures, whether those were faked or
not.
But all of these testimoniesand stories corroborating each
other happening within the sametime frame I mean we're talking
about a couple weeks.
It's very clean this spottinghappened, and then roswell
happening a couple weeks laterand then a picture surfacing.
So this, this gets me closerand they're credible enough
(18:19):
sources.
I mean, we're talking aboutsomething that happened 75 plus
years ago, right?
Yeah, some of that testimony maynot be true, like we found with
the article that was releasedwhere they took a little bit of
artistic license with how he wasdescribing the ships.
There's always going to be, Ifeel, like that element of these
stories.
You know media or thegovernment will take artistic
(18:41):
license with how they describeit or redact it and remove some
information.
So I don't know.
This gets me the closest to ayes.
I'm all for it.
I like how this show has becomevery personal for you, josh,
and you're just talking to me,trying to get me to believe in
these incidents.
Josh (19:01):
Well, I have nothing else going on.
Travis (19:03):
This is it All right.
Well, there you go.
You can put a little yes-ish inyour column of convincing
Travis that these things arereal.
Josh (19:11):
If you guys want to share what you guys think yes, maybe
or no let us know.
There's going to be fan mail,so you can just message us right
away through the link and we'llget it.
Travis (19:23):
Our inbox is going to fill up very fast, so get your
responses in early.
Josh (19:27):
Oh yeah, it's just going to be me Just spamming yourself.
Yeah, I like you guys.
I like that Travis guy.
He should believe more Touche.
And also it's time for ourbaseline quiz.
Oh God, the teaser for the nextepisode, boy, because Travis
(19:52):
has cheated once.
We do not get the quiz untilhalfway through the recording.
Travis (19:58):
This is going to be good .
This is one of my doingresearch specifically for this
podcast.
This was a topic that I had alot of fun looking into.
Josh (20:07):
The topic next week is the abduction of Betty and Barney
Hill.
Mm-hmm.
So first question in what yeardid the abduction of Betty and
Barney Hill take place?
Okay, is it A 1958, b 1961, c1965, or D 1970?
(20:28):
Yeah, I'm going to.
I think 61.
61.
I'm going to do that.
What do you think?
61.
Oh, oh, you're saying that wassuch authority, mm-hmm.
Okay, just a going to do that.
What do you think?
61.
Oh, oh, you're saying that wassuch authority, mm-hmm, Okay.
Travis (20:40):
Just a gut feeling.
Okay, from what?
Josh (20:42):
I remember.
So next question, mm-hmm, wherewere the Hills abducted?
A New Hampshire, b Connecticut,c New York or D Rhode Island?
Travis (20:55):
I'll go first.
I'm going to say New Hampshire.
Josh (20:57):
I was thinking that too.
Did you cheat?
No, I didn't cheat.
I got the quiz the same time asyou, yeah, but you're living
with the researcher.
We don't talk.
Are you kidding me?
Travis (21:10):
I'm sensing a little bit of collusion.
We'll see.
Well, I'm going to pick NewHampshire because you seem like
you do know it and you're upsetthat I picked the same thing.
Josh (21:21):
This is a great podcast scene, yeah.
Next question yeah, what werethey doing before the abduction
took place?
A having a picnic in themountains, B changing a flat
tire, C driving home from avacation or D getting pulled
over by the police?
Travis (21:37):
Having a picnic in the mountains is what I think, but
also driving home from avacation or d getting pulled
over by the police.
Uh, having a picnic in themountains is what I think, but
also driving home from vacationthose could be the same thing
yeah, I remember seeing thatthey were in a car, they were
driving, so I'm going to saydriving home from but what were
they doing before the abductiontook place?
Josh (21:51):
driving question.
They were driving home from avacation.
Oh, you seem pretty sure.
Well, I've.
I've seen documentaries andthis is a pretty big, big thing.
I don't know what they're doingbefore they're driving.
They could have been doing allthese things.
That's the question and howmuch time before these things?
Well, that was a question.
Travis (22:11):
What were?
Josh (22:11):
they doing a year before the you know, yeah.
Travis (22:14):
Time.
So what was your answer?
Uh, mine was having a picnic inthe mountains okay, and mine's
driving home, yeah.
Josh (22:20):
Next question what was the hill's occupations?
A barney was a bus driver andbetty was a school teacher.
B barney was a postal workerand betty was a social worker.
C barney was a police officerand betty was a nurse.
Or d?
Barney was a police officer andBetty was a nurse.
Or D?
Barney was a constructionworker and Betty was a
stay-at-home mom.
I'm kind of stumped.
(22:41):
I don't think Barney was apolice officer no, I don't think
so either.
I'm thinking either postalworker and social worker, or bus
driver and teacher okay, well,what's your final answer?
I'm gonna say bus driver andteacher.
Okay, what do you say?
um, I am going to say, uh,postal worker and social worker
(23:01):
okay, now our last question howdid the hills alleged abduction
story become public knowledge?
A they wrote a book about theirexperience.
B a reporter obtained arecording of the hills speaking
about their experience.
C the air force released thefindings of project blue book.
Or.
D they announced it at a ufoconvention.
(23:22):
Okay, I'm gonna say a yeah,they wrote a book, just because
that seems well, they did.
They did write a book, but Idon't know if that was before
after.
Travis (23:30):
that's what I'm saying because I'm I'm doing what they
do on, like uh who wants to be amillionaire.
So, like I know, they wrotebook.
I don't know if the book waswhat made them popular or if
they got to be popular and thenwere asked to write a book.
The book they wrote was like itcame out in the sixties late
sixties, if I remember right andthen there was a like a made
for TV show that came out in theseventies.
Josh (23:52):
It was based on the book, based on their Well, I also
remember they went through thehypnosis and that was recorded.
Yeah, and was that post book orpre-book?
I don't know.
They could have given that to areporter so what's your answer?
A reporter obtained a recording.
Okay, I'm gonna say that.
And you say the book.
I say a book.
Okay, I'm gonna submit thisquiz god, I probably I'm gonna.
Travis (24:12):
It's gonna be embarrassing when I get nothing
right again because I was soconfident.
Josh (24:18):
Oh my gosh.
So question one what year didthe abduction take place?
We both said 1961.
That is correct.
Where were the Hills abducted?
Second question New Hampshire?
We both said that is correct.
Travis (24:31):
Oh, you look like you're getting 100%.
Josh (24:33):
Question three what were they doing before the abduction
took place?
Travis (24:37):
You said Having a picnic with their bears Cute.
Josh (24:40):
Yeah, and I said driving home from a vacation.
Driving home from vacation wasthe correct answer.
Travis (24:46):
All right, really lean into that.
Okay, I'm a dumb dummy, legallya moron.
Josh (24:50):
The next question was what was the Hill's occupation?
Travis (24:58):
I said Barney was a bus driver and betty was a school
teacher.
What did you say?
Josh (25:00):
uh, postal worker and social worker and the postal
worker and social worker werecorrect.
I was incorrect.
You hear that, travis.
I was wrong, you were.
So how did the hill's allegedobjection story become public
knowledge?
You said they wrote a bookabout their experience.
I said a reporter obtainedrecording of the Hills speaking
about their experience and thatwas the correct answer.
(25:20):
It's the recording.
Travis (25:21):
So I talked you into the correct answer because you were
going to say book too.
I was.
Can you do?
Josh (25:25):
that yeah, so they must've wrote the book after the
experience yeah.
Should be a good recording.
Yeah, that'll be a fun one.
There's a lot there.
Travis (25:37):
Don't we deserve a little bit of fun on this show?
Josh (25:39):
I've always said that I know you usually just edit it
out, because you say it so often, I do.
Well, thank you for listeningagain or, if it's your first
time, thank you for finding us.
Travis (25:46):
Oh, what a.
What a bad move, though, Ifyou're listening for the first
time this is okay, give themsome credit.
Josh (25:51):
They may not be the weirdos.
No, they, they should go backand listen to the beginning.
Yeah, just for context.
Yeah, if you want to know whowe are and what we know and what
we don't know uh, we don't knowmuch yeah, definitely give some
of the other stuff a listen andenjoy the rest of your life
until you listen to the nextepisode.
Travis (26:10):
Wow, okay, bye you.
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