Ley Lines: Ancient Energy Paths or Modern Myth?

What if Earth's most sacred places aren't randomly scattered but deliberately positioned along invisible energy pathways? That's the fascinating premise behind ley lines—straight alignments connecting ancient monuments, temples, and natural formations that some believe carry powerful earth energies.

Standing alone on a hilltop in 1921 England, Alfred Watkins noticed something remarkable about the landscape: ancient sites created a perfect geometric pattern across the countryside. He called these alignments "ley lines," initially viewing them as practical ancient trade routes. But over decades, this simple observation evolved into something far more mysterious. By the 1960s, these invisible pathways were being connected to UFO sightings, paranormal activity, and earth energies flowing through specific channels.

We journey from England's stone circles to global sacred sites like the Great Pyramids, Machu Picchu, and Chichen Itza—all allegedly positioned along these energy grids. Different cultures describe similar phenomena: Native Americans speak of spirit lines, Aboriginal Australians follow songlines, Chinese geomancy maps dragon veins, and European folklore tells of fairy paths. Could these diverse traditions be describing the same underlying reality?

The skeptical perspective offers compelling counterarguments: scientific instruments detect no consistent energy anomalies along these alignments, and mathematical analysis suggests we might simply be recognizing patterns in random data. Yet people continue to report profound experiences at ley line intersections—places of heightened awareness, spiritual transformation, and unexplained phenomena.

Whether viewed as ancient energy pathways, extraterrestrial navigation systems, or simply our human tendency to create meaning from coincidence, ley lines continue to captivate our imagination. They remind us of humanity's enduring quest to connect with something larger than ourselves and find magic hidden in plain sight.

Have you experienced unusual phenomena at ancient sites or felt inexplicably drawn to certain places? Share your stories with us and join the conversation about Earth's mysterious energy grid.

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Episode Transcript

Josh (00:03):
Aliens Aliens, yes.

Travis (00:09):
But maybe no Uh-oh, another show.

Josh (00:23):
Oh yeah.

Travis (00:23):
Well, we are doing another one, so welcome to it.

Josh (00:28):
Even though everyone's telling us not to, even though
everyone's telling us and theyshould yeah, Keep that up.

Travis (00:34):
Yep, it's good for our mental health.
So this is the show Aliens, yes, but Maybe no.
With Josh and Travis, I'mTravis.

Josh (00:42):
And I'm Josh.

Travis (00:43):
This is an otherworldly podcast as ambiguous as our
title.

Josh (00:47):
So last week we kind of.

Travis (00:50):
No idea.

Josh (00:50):
Beard, slightly away from what we normally talk about and
went to cryptid.

Travis (00:56):
Oh, that's right, we talked about a.
Thing.

Josh (00:59):
Yeah, it kind of had some alignment with aliens Sure If
you squint.
If you squint?
Yeah, it kind of did.
You were very harsh with me.

Travis (01:09):
Just towards the end.
Oh my God.
Okay, I'm going to be harshwith you now, forever.

Josh (01:14):
Yeah.

Travis (01:14):
I know you really want to believe, and that's fine.
That was what I was trying tocommunicate.
I know that in your heart ofhearts, this is something that
you really believe in and that'stotally fine.

Josh (01:24):
The proof is out there.
It's not definitive proof.
Are you taking from the X-Files?
Yeah, a lot of alien theoristssay yes.

Travis (01:35):
Sure, but those are people that have a dog in that
fight.
Right, that's right.
If you become an alien theorist, you're like, okay, I now have
to dedicate everything that I doto this.
Yeah, when I watch ancient,okay, I now have to dedicate
everything that I do to this.

Josh (01:45):
Yeah, when I watch ancient aliens I chuckle a lot because
they just come up with thecraziest things and then they'll
say ancient alien theoristsbelieve yes, They've never said
no.

Travis (01:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's totally fine.

Josh (02:00):
But yeah, I mean I've mentioned before just there's a
lot out there.
There's a lot of informationSome of it is probably not true,
but just the majority of it aswell as the government
involvement, the congressionalinvolvement, the scientific
involvement, the witnesses, thewhistleblowers.
It just seems as though there'ssomething there and it's kind
of like a controlled disclosureas the government and the world

(02:24):
kind of prepare on what to doand how to handle this, as well
as trying to make it so it's nota shock to society.
That's what it seems like andthere's just enough proof.
And if what is happening doesmean aliens, then some of these
stories are probably true.
Not necessarily everything.

(02:44):
I mean you watch ancient aliensor go on YouTube and there's
some wild stuff out there andmaybe that was part of some of
the disinformation stuff too.

Travis (02:52):
What Sorry I spaced out.

Josh (02:54):
Yeah, I know what were you talking about.
Well, maybe I should leave thatout of the podcast because I
can't keep you hooked.

Travis (03:03):
I'm fine, I'll be fine.
I just spaced out for a littlebit there.
I don't even remember what youwere talking about.
We had introduced our topicfrom last week, which is the
Flatwoods Monster, yes, and thenwe jumped right into the
controversy of how that episodeended, which was me accusing you
of being delusional, being toosincere about this, maybe a
little too precious.
I am precious, yeah, you are.

(03:25):
You're a precious sweet littleboy, baby, yeah, but Flatwoods
Monster I think is a veryintriguing idea.
I love the idea of cryptids andthe cult around cryptids I
think is very interesting.
I mean, who wouldn't want tobelieve in some mythical monster
?
It's.
The whole reason I got intofantasy was because, if you
start to read about unicorns,you want to believe that those

(03:48):
kind of things exist, like orcsand goblins and yeah, one of the
bigger ones is mermaids.
There's a lot of people of soundmind that believe that mermaids
are real sure but what I'msaying is like I grew up reading
fantasy and so I have a naturalinclination to want to believe
in this kind of stuff likefantastical creatures.
Yeah, because it backs up myidea that magic still exists in

(04:11):
the world.
And you know, I think thatthat's kind of a nice, a nice
thing to think about.

Josh (04:15):
Yeah, it is.

Travis (04:17):
So who's going to be reading from the dossier this
week?

Josh (04:20):
I can.

Travis (04:20):
I do have some scene setting that I'd like to do.

Josh (04:23):
Yeah, so today, if you listened to last episode, you'll
know that we are talking aboutley lines.
Yeah, la, la, la ley lines.

Travis (04:30):
La, la, la, la, la ley lines.

Josh (04:33):
Yeah, I knew a little bit about it.
I didn't know much.
We watched some videos, ourresearcher gave us a lot of
notes.
We don't know everything.
We're still learning.

Travis (04:43):
Well, we don't know, we don't know shit Every time we do
these quizzes.
It's funny I'm like never heardof it.
Flatwoods Monster never heardof it.
Ley lines are like such a bigpart of like fantasy fiction.

Josh (04:57):
Yeah.

Travis (04:57):
That I was just like.
When it was introduced lastweek, I was like never heard of
it, Sounds wackadoo.

Josh (05:05):
Yeah, it's shown up in TV and movies so much I was looking
through where it's showing upin media and I was blown away
how many things it is in, yeah,and comics and video games and
fantasy.

Travis (05:16):
I mean, it's all real so with a little scene setting.
Okay, I'm gonna set a set atone.
So it's 1921.

Josh (05:25):
Are you going to play some smooth jazz?

Travis (05:26):
right now.
Imagine the year 1921.
Steam machines and dragons areruling the airs.
Down here on the ground, elvesand dwarves are fighting a war
that's on the horizon.
And then we have this onewizard, Alfred Walken, standing
alone on a hilltop in ruralEngland.
He's looking at a map, tracinglines, connecting dots, and then

(05:51):
something clicks.

Josh (05:53):
I don't know where you're going with this, but go on.
That's it, oh, okay.

Travis (05:58):
So Alfred is.
Alfred is the guy that coinedthe term ley lines.
I just feel like the originstory of ley lines sounds like
it's coming from a fantasy, likehe's on a hilltop and is
connecting lines from one churchto another.

Josh (06:14):
Yeah, it's like an origin story that changes everything.
Sure, yeah, I can see that.
Yeah, yeah, it is basicallytrue, except most of it.

Travis (06:24):
What the dragons or the steam-powered flying machines?

Josh (06:28):
Yeah, those probably didn't happen, the elves.

Travis (06:32):
I think that, oh, josh, okay, tell me, elves don't exist
.

Josh (06:35):
That's for our other show.

Travis (06:37):
Tell me, dragons don't exist.

Josh (06:38):
That's yet again another show that we do Dragons.
Yes, but maybe no.

Travis (06:43):
I don't feel like you're yes-anding me well enough.

Josh (06:46):
Well, I'm working on it.

Travis (06:48):
So churches, ancient mounds, stone circles, old wells
they don't appear randomlyscattered throughout the
countryside.
They seem to align right.
That was his idea.

Josh (06:57):
Yeah, yeah, and a little rabbit trail I did when I found
something online that he coinedthe term ley line, because they
align Ley line align.
The lines went through a lot oftowns that had ley in it, so he
just ended up coining ley lines, and this was in England.

Travis (07:20):
Yeah.

Josh (07:20):
And so that's where the name came from.

Travis (07:23):
Name one town.

Josh (07:24):
Leyland.

Travis (07:25):
Leyland.

Josh (07:26):
Landley, landley I don't know.
I'm going off of what I read.

Travis (07:31):
That's wild, that's a wild connection.

Josh (07:34):
Yeah, what I read did not have the names.

Travis (07:36):
Well, the magic's gone for me now.

Josh (07:38):
Oh, okay.

Travis (07:39):
If that's, the connection he made was that
these lines went through townsthat had to lay somewhere in it.
It's gone.
That's not what he made.
There's no more magic.
No more magic in the world.
He simultaneously created anddestroyed magic with one move.

Josh (07:53):
No, no, he just he named it after that.

Travis (07:55):
That's ridiculous.

Josh (07:57):
That's just UK.
We'll talk about a little bitfurther.
There's other cool names.

Travis (08:01):
I know I'm saying that's ridiculous.
That is a ridiculous way tocome about this name.
I'm not casting aspersions onyour research, I'm saying this
guy, alfred, his reasoningbehind coming up with his name
is dumb.

Josh (08:12):
Maybe he's not a creative person, which could benefit him
in this being real.
If he couldn't come up with aname, how could he come up with
this?
Uh, no, so yeah, a ley line inits simplest form is a straight
line drawn between landmarks,often ancient or culturally
significant, that some believecarry symbolic, energetic or

(08:36):
historical importance, and thesemay include temples, stone
circles, pyramids and, in moremodern interpretations, sites
like cathedrals or power plants,and Watkins initially imagined
them as ancient trade routes,practical pathways that guided
people through forests andacross hills.
But as the idea gained tractionlater, writers and spiritual
thinkers began to reinterpretley lines in a more symbolic or

(08:58):
metaphysical light.
Some proposed that thesealignments reflected subtle
forces flowing through the earthperceptible only under certain
conditions or perhaps evenunderstood by non-human
intelligence.
Similar concepts appear indifferent cultures, Like Native
American traditions speak ofspirit lines that's a cool name.
In Australia, aboriginal songlines that's even cooler.

(09:22):
They use song lines to tracesacred journeys across the land.
In Chinese geomancy, dragonveins.

Travis (09:29):
There we go.
Now we're getting there yeah.

Josh (09:32):
They describe energy flows that influence the harmony of
structures.
In some parts of Europe,stories describe fairy paths and
ghost roads, straight, unseentracks used by spirits.
They're probably just gametrails.
Well, they're unseen, so thisis probably just game trails.
Well, they're unseen, so thisis separate than game trails.
How do you prove that they'rethere?

Travis (09:49):
it's the whole point of this episode then it's just
somebody drawing a line on a maplike the shortest distance
between two points right yeah,it could just be that but like
nobody walks down these paths,it's just him saying here's a
cathedral here, there, there's acathedral there.
This line between the twocathedrals is now a ley line.

Josh (10:08):
I don't think that these fairy paths or ghost roads are
necessarily correlated to leylines.
We're just talking about energypaths right now, kind of what
it's evolved and what it lookslike around the world.
Okay, go on.
So while these ideas areculturally distinct in their
areas, they reflect a commoninstinct to find meaning in the
shape of the land and to connectplaces that feel important.

Travis (10:31):
So, whether viewed as ancient wayfinding systems,
spiritual currents or artifactsof pattern recognition, ley
lines remain a topic offascination, and they blend
landscape legend and universalhuman drive to create order out
of complexity sure this soundsjust like a bunch of woo stuff,
like I have no betterunderstanding of what a ley line

(10:52):
is after hearing you describewhat a ley line is than I did
when we first started thispodcast, so like there's energy
tied to it basically it's kindof like an invisible grid system
that covers the world.
So like latitude and longitudelines.

Josh (11:08):
Basically, but it is in a geometrical formation and along
these lines are very large andsignificant developments or
landmarks or mountains or thingsthat have ancient spiritual
meaning or things we don't evenknow what they are.
Also along these lines thereare energies.

(11:31):
Some say that are the reasonthat these things were built.
So basically they're sayingthat ancient civilizations and
ancient people, and sometimesnot so ancient, we built things
on purpose in specific locationsbecause they were on these
energy lines that are around theworld.

Travis (11:50):
But these energy lines, like the very first description
was a ley line, in its simplestform is a straight line drawn
between landmarks.

Josh (11:58):
Yeah, I don't think Alfred Watkins, the guy who coined the
term and wrote the book.
What's the book called?
The Long Straight Line orwhatever, I don't know.

Travis (12:09):
The Long Straight Line from Findlay to Landly and all
the Lees in between.

Josh (12:13):
I don't think that he was as far in his thinking as some
of the modern day thinkers thatley lines were.
I don't think he was thinkingenergy or anything like that.
I think he just found aconnection and that was that
this was kind of like the origin.

Travis (12:28):
And then later, like in the 60s, Like I understand like
the cultural side of it, likefinding it in fantasy books,
because that is an idea thatmagic can be drawn from certain
areas, Like it's going to bestronger along this ley line
than than is anywhere else.
You can draw power from thatand there's something like as

(12:48):
far as a narrative goes.

Josh (12:49):
That's cool, like very cool yeah, and ley lines also
show up in the supernaturalworld as well.
So these same ley lines Ibelieve they're the same ley
lines.
They are also high ghost areasas well.

Travis (13:04):
What do you mean?

Josh (13:05):
Along these ley lines.
A lot of hauntings or spiritualencounters happen in these
lines, as well as InterestingHistorical ancient spots.

Travis (13:15):
Okay, interesting.
So ghosts there's moreoccurrences of spectral
phenomena along these ley linesthan there is anywhere else.
Ghouls Well, ghouls are likethe undead.
What, like a zombie, is a ghoul?

Josh (13:27):
Yeah, my whole life.

Travis (13:29):
Not like a ghost.
A ghost is something different.

Josh (13:32):
Well, if ghouls do happen, it'll probably be on a ley line
.

Travis (13:35):
Okay, well, you heard it here first.

Josh (13:37):
So I don't know.

Travis (13:45):
I mean, we've talked before that we're not big
believers in ghosts or thesupernatural, but I do get
scared watching a ghost movie.
I get scared.
I will say that I do.

Josh (13:50):
They're very scary, yeah, I actually just don't watch them
.
They just pop out.
Yeah, what's up with that?
Casper Friendly?
Doubt it, doubt it.

Travis (13:58):
Get out of here, not likely.

Josh (14:00):
There's a lot of compelling things to ley lines.
I don't know the supernaturalaspect of it, but I do know that
there's probably compellingevidence for that as well.
Same with UFOs, we're mainlytalking structures and things
like that, but around ley linesthere's a lot of UFO activity.

Travis (14:19):
Holy shit, I just made the connection.
A-lee-ens, a-ley-ens lines yeahyeah, that works.
Aliens, aliens lines yeah yeah,that works Maybe.

Josh (14:28):
Is there something there?
Yeah, if you overlap a map ofall the alien sightings with the
ley lines, you'll see a biggercongestion around the ley lines
than not around them, basicallyMm-hmm.
So maybe there's something andif there is energy, maybe
there's something there that wecan't feel or recognize.
They've said that there'selectromagnetic.

Travis (14:49):
Where does our guy Lou Elizondo fall on ley lines?
Do you know?
I don't, I don't know.
So you ever brought it up.

Josh (14:56):
Not that I know of, but he's not the only one, and that
might not be exactly his.
I think he has a biologicalbackground.
Lou Elizondo is one of thewhistleblowers.
You don't need to tell ourlisteners.

Travis (15:10):
Well.

Josh (15:10):
I mean, if this is our first thing, I just don't want
an inside name.
He ran AATIP in the Pentagonand left because they weren't
taking him seriously and he hada lot of stuff all over the
place.

Travis (15:23):
Well, I'm not finding anything with Lou Elizondo and a
take on Leyline, so he probablyjust believes in it.
Lou, if you're a listener, letus know.
Write in to our fan mail.

Josh (15:34):
Yeah.

Travis (15:35):
And let us know where you fall on the Leyline.

Josh (15:38):
Yeah, we won't tell anyone .

Travis (15:39):
We'll probably talk about it on our next episode.

Josh (15:41):
I doubt he's going to write in.

Travis (15:43):
Well, it'll be Bluey Alejandro, yeah, sure.

Josh (15:49):
Yeah, we could do that, Bluey.

Travis (15:54):
We play that.
So every time we leave thehouse we have two dogs.
When I leave the house I putBluey on for them.
They seem to love it.

Josh (16:00):
Do you really I?

Travis (16:01):
do really.

Josh (16:02):
Wow.

Travis (16:03):
They love it.
It's actually this is way offtopic but it is designed with
colors that are within the dog'svisual spectrum, so they use,
like blues and yellows, thingsthe dogs can see.

Josh (16:16):
Interesting.

Travis (16:16):
Because it's a show about dogs for kids.
It's a great show.

Josh (16:20):
Oh, I've seen it.
It is great, I've criedwatching that show.
I haven't done that.
Oh, I've seen it.
It is great, I've criedwatching that show.

Travis (16:25):
I haven't done that.
Oh man, Beautiful show.

Josh (16:26):
I mean going off of things that dogs can see and animals
can see, things that we can't.
What if there is something thatwe can't see?
Maybe there is some things thatwe can't feel or see, and even
with science that we can't eventest, or we don't know how to,
yet we don't know what to test.
We don't know how to yet, yeah,we don't know what to test.
We don't even know what totruly hypothesize about, like we

(16:47):
can say, yeah, it's here, butwhat is it?
It seems as though with Watkins, he had this idea and then it's
evolved into energy and then inthe newer, in the 90s, and
today it's healing and it's kindof a new agey thing.
So we'd really have to naildown what a ley line is or kind
of come up with a realdefinition to be able to test

(17:09):
something like that Plus changeour mindset, our scientific
mindset.
You know the paradigm andarchaeological mindset that
maybe there is something there,maybe to eventually test it.
You know, like 30 years ago weweren't researching and talking
about aliens and UAPs becausethe paradigm was we don't talk

(17:29):
about that, that's crazy.
And now we are doing tests andrunning things and it's a little
more acceptable in the field.
So maybe someday we can get tothat point, especially with
advances in technology.
That'd be cool.
So the compelling cases for leylines.
Those who support the idea ofley lines often point out the
global alignments of sacredsites.
So some people believe thatmany of the world's well-known

(17:53):
ancient landmarks wereintentionally placed along
straight alignments, likeStonehenge in the UK, the Great
Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, machuPicchu in Peru, chichen Itza in
Mexico, easter Island in thePacific and Glastonbury Tor in
UK.
Those are just some examples.
There's hundreds and thousandsalong these ley lines.

Travis (18:16):
Hundreds and thousands, that's a big number.

Josh (18:19):
These locations are thought by some to sit on energy
hotspots where the ley linesintersect.
So some of these bigger onesand, it is possible, some of
these old ancient ruins that wehave, it doesn't make sense why
they were built there, you know,like up on top of mountains.
It's like they purposely dragrocks hundreds of miles.

Travis (18:40):
Well, if you're building on a mountain, you already have
the rocks.

Josh (18:43):
Well, they can do sampling , and the rocks aren't from that
area.

Travis (18:46):
Well, I don't know that that's true.
I haven't read the research onthat yet, but the reason you
move to a certain place iseither to get away from a threat
or resources.

Josh (18:57):
Yeah, so there's things outside of towns.

Travis (18:59):
And so they were able to like Chichen Itza and Machu
Picchu, up at the top of thesemountains.
They have resources up there,they can get out for goats, they
found ways to bring water up,and sometimes it's just like and
I'm not speaking about thesecivilizations like one of the
seven wonders of the world isthe Greek gardens or whatever,
where it's just like a flex.

Josh (19:19):
Yeah, and some of it could be for sure, but I don't think
all of them are.
Some of them could be for sure,but I don't think all of them
are Some of them.
It just doesn't make sensecarrying and moving a ton pound
boulder.

Travis (19:29):
Well, it does Millions of times.
If you're creating somethinglike humans want to create and
have a lasting legacy and howelse are you going to get that
lasting legacy other than bybuilding something incredible,
you know.

Josh (19:41):
In some places.
Yeah, absolutely.

Travis (19:43):
I mean, that's what the pyramids are.
They were a testament to thepharaoh.
Right.
Pharaoh, from the moment he'sborn or becomes pharaoh, starts
designing and building thesepyramids as a legacy to him.
Potentially Okay, there areother theories.
I'm speaking basically on whatwe know about the pyramids, not

(20:05):
wild speculation Like that is.
What we know about the pyramidsis that they were built as a
giant tomb as a legacy to thispharaoh.

Josh (20:13):
Yeah, and there might be.
I mean, there's a lot of reallycompelling evidence and just
strange things about just thepyramids alone and maybe that
was part of the design, maybe ithad more than one function.
It's possible.
But back to ley lines, wherethese energy spots intersect
they call them energy vortexes.
It's where multiple ley linesare believed to cross.

(20:34):
Proponents described anamplification of energy.
These spots are associated withpersonal transformation,
spiritual clarity or heightenedawareness, and that's kind of
like where I think the newagey-ness kind of gets involved.

Travis (20:48):
It does, I mean if there is like an energy center or
whatever, or it flows alongthese lines, kind of like if you
think about tributaries, and wehave those with water, but we
also have those with rock andgranite, marble and stuff like
that goes through the earth.

Josh (21:03):
So if you, yeah, frequencies, I mean that's's
real you can think of thingslike that.

Travis (21:07):
I mean, the earth is a.
It's a complicated planet,right?
Yeah, and there's a lot wedon't know about it.
And you know, magnetic fieldsand the way that reacts to our
human body could be interpreteda bunch of different ways, so
sure yeah, and that kind ofleads me to the ancient builders
of these things.

Josh (21:26):
If they were like you know the term grounding where you
like you take off your shoes andyou actually touch the ground
and you can get some benefitsfrom that.
If they were just bornperpetually grounded and they
were kind of more in tune withthe world, if they were able to
observe some of these thingsthat maybe we're just
disconnected from because we'reso distracted Because we wear

(21:48):
shoes and clothes yeah, it ispossible.
Or maybe they had it as somesurvival thing in their DNA and
it's just kind of evolved awaywhere we just don't have that
anymore because we don't need it.
Some interpretations suggestthat ancient civilizations had
knowledge of this land's energyand that's why they built all

(22:08):
these locations, kind ofcreating a global energy network
.
And then Tony Wedd in the 60she kind of made it about aliens,
saying you know, maybe it's analien guidance system.
He proposed the theory that leylines might have functioned as
navigational tools for alienspacecrafts.
He observed what he consideredcorrelations between ley line
intersections and reported UFOsightings.

(22:30):
This idea later evolved intomore expansive theories,
suggesting Earth was mapped byextraterrestrial intelligence,
using it as an energy grid,which would be interesting.
If you kind of like a wirelesscharger, like a craft, come down
and just charge with the energythat they've created, sure.

Travis (22:47):
So these ley lines were put here.

Josh (22:49):
That is one theory.
That was Tony Wedd in 1960.
He came up with that idea andit's kind of evolved a little
bit more where it's like anenergy grid system.
Yeah, and then John Mitchell'sinfluence in 1969, from the book
the View Over Atlantis,mitchell connected ley lines to
sacred geometry, ancient wisdom,traditions and planetary energy

(23:12):
systems.
Drawing on the Chinese conceptof dragon veins, he suggested
that ancient people orpotentially otherworldly beings
built in alignment with naturalenergy currents flowing through
the earth, built in alignmentwith natural energy currents
flowing through the earth.
So there's a lot going on.
There's also the spiritualearth energy.
So some contemporaryperspectives describe ley lines
as spiritual or psychologicalpaths, routes that map not just

(23:36):
geography but internal growth ortransformation.
Fun like a spirit journey or aquest.
They would basically just go ona spiritual journey and just be
guided.

Travis (23:45):
Yeah, like a walkabout, yeah, or a vision quest, they
would basically just go on aspiritual journey and just be
guided, yeah, like a walkabout,yeah, or a vision quest, but
that usually involves a lot ofdrugs.

Josh (23:51):
That's true, which I mean?
There's a lot of drugs that wehaven't researched.
Some of it might.
I mean, I've heard some insanethings about mushrooms.

Travis (23:58):
Oh, we've researched the shit out of mushrooms.

Josh (24:07):
Yeah, recently, no, like recently, like since this
century, like the 20s, but we'restill trying to figure it out.

Travis (24:09):
You know, there hasn't been a lot of research on
consciousness.
There's reasons why.
I mean they've used mushroomsand lsd on dolphins.
So I mean there's like broadresearch out there.
It's just people throw it outbecause of certain steps that
were taken, especially in the60s.
Certain steps that were takento unlock this consciousness,
using it on people as a way ofmind control or using it on

(24:30):
dolphins to try to unlock aconnection with dolphins so we
can understand their language.

Josh (24:36):
Well, and it wasn't widely available to research because
it was illegal, only certainwhen you're talking about
research, that doesn't matter.

Travis (24:42):
Within the government's research, it doesn't matter
whether it's fucking illegal ornot.
The reason weed is illegal isbecause it was a threat to the
tree industry.
It had nothing to do with itsbenefits.

Josh (24:52):
Yeah, but there was a lot of places that because it was
illegal, they weren't allowed tohave it, to research it, and
the same with mushrooms.

Travis (24:59):
Only certain classes of drugs are not like cocaine,
heroin.
Those ones are not being lookedinto, but there's a ton of
research into ketamine right now.
Psilocybin has been a part of alot of research.
Lsd is still being researchedout there.
But those like the big nastyones, as they say, like Well,
weed is in that same category,but it shouldn't be.

Josh (25:20):
It shouldn't be no, no, well, and I know, with mushrooms
, be no, no, well, and I know,with mushrooms people, from what
I've heard I haven't done thempeople see a common thing of
connection.
Everything's connected.
Sure, I wanted to mention withthe ley lines.
Jordan was telling me that alot of the wayfinders, when they
were traveling on the openwaters, Like Moana.
Yeah, like Moana, they always onevery boat had someone that was

(25:45):
connected to true North andthey said it's kind of like an
energy they just always couldfigure out.
Obviously they use the standardlooking at the stars and stuff
like that, but they always knewwhere North was and they could
feel it in their soul, that kindof where I was talking about.
Like maybe we just kind ofgotten disconnected a little bit
, like if there was people thatwere disciplined in the old and

(26:07):
ancient days to where they werepurposely trying to ground
themselves in an alreadygrounded society that they could
maybe tap in or know the worlda little bit more than we could
possibly know now.

Travis (26:20):
I love that.
I think that's great.
That's a very romantic way tolook at it, I think.

Josh (26:24):
Yeah, and if they were able to maybe use ley lines that
term didn't exist back then,but these energy.

Travis (26:32):
No, because they didn't have English towns yet.

Josh (26:34):
That's right.
If they were able to use theseenergy lines or channels and
they were able to have someoneon their ships that could maybe
feel something or interpret it,and that's how they were able to
travel and find things thatwould be interesting, Like how
did they find Hawaii?
How did they find Easter Islandin the middle of absolutely
nowhere?
It doesn't make sense and thiscould potentially be an answer

(26:56):
to that if there is a line thatgoes through Easter Island.

Travis (26:59):
But I mean, how do animals get on these islands too
?

Josh (27:02):
Yeah, I mean magnets, man.
How do birds migrate?
They do the same migratory path.

Travis (27:08):
How do birds suddenly appear every time you're near?

Josh (27:11):
Josh, I mean, we already know that birds aren't real.
Yeah, no, they're not.

Travis (27:15):
I love that subreddit so much.
It's so much fun yeah.

Josh (27:18):
The cool thing about ley lines is there are no skeptic.

Travis (27:21):
Everyone believes everyone believes and that just.
Are we into that portion of ourshow?
Are we getting into theskeptics' arguments against?

Josh (27:27):
No, I don't Is there.
I don't think there is.

Travis (27:30):
No, there can't be Closed book.
Okay, done for the show.
Now we do the quiz.

Josh (27:34):
Yep, yeah.
It's very rare in this realm ofknowledge and ideas that
everyone agrees.
But hey, we'll take it Makesthe show much easier.

Travis (27:43):
What not having to?

Josh (27:45):
No skeptics.
No, I don't have to defendanything.

Travis (27:47):
Okay, so one of the interesting ones is this guy,
Matt Parker.
He's a mathematician, to kindof use this logic that they
connect and this is what I wastalking about at the top of the
show.
To illustrate the role ofcoincidence, he used the same
ley line logic to draw mysticalalignments between Woolworths,
which are retail stores.
The result of that was a nearperfect line highlighting how

(28:10):
patterns can emerge even inunrelated data sets.

Josh (28:13):
Yeah.

Travis (28:13):
So was JG Woolworth, attuned and grounded.
Who knows, did he have someonetake their shoes off and stand
in the dirt and say, yep, thisis the place.
Like what's his name, brighamYoung, when he landed in Salt
Lake?

Josh (28:24):
Yeah, I think there's a little bit more planning and
stuff like that with newer stuff.
I mean, we have streets thatare already aligned, so if you
have a Starbucks two miles away,I just think that's coincidence
.

Travis (28:38):
I mean it may be, because if we're going to make
that connection, then why aren'tall streets along ley lines or
no streets along ley lines?
It's an easy answer to say like, well, we have streets that are
on ley lines.
Well, yeah, of course, becausethere's fucking millions of
streets, of course they're goingto land on a ley line.

Josh (28:54):
I'm not saying that streets are ley lines or
anything.

Travis (28:56):
I'm saying that we basically build in grids at this
point in civilization, oh no no, we have towns and no, I mean
sure, a square block, but likeany road you travel just in our
city, in our state, is wackadooand doesn't make any sense.
That's why it's such an anomalyto go to somewhere in like Utah

(29:19):
, where everything is on a gridand people say like, well, it's
all on a grid, well, yeah, butthat's not normal.
That's not like a normal way todesign streets.
I mean, it should make, itmakes sense.
It's an easy way to navigatethrough a city.
When you're like 200 West, 500South or whatever, that is a
great way to navigate.
But even Nampa is not that way.

Josh (29:39):
Well, it's two grids, but there's a grid this way like
just a normal square, and thenthey angle it, and there's
another grid that is sideways toit but pushed up, and it is
super confusing when you'rearound those parts.
Yeah, yeah, super confusing.
But what I'm saying is there'splanning and zoning and

(30:02):
different things like that inour society today, but back in
the ancient times, you know,there's different cultures that
weren't communicating on wherethey were building.
It wasn't planned out thatthese are all coincidentally
lining up.

Travis (30:13):
I think it's coincidence .
I mean, we have had roads goingfrom all parts of Rome to China
.
Do all those roads fall on leylines?
No, they absolutely do not.

Josh (30:23):
No, and I think, I definitely think, a lot of them
are coincidences.
I do believe that there aresome places that have different
energies uh, electromagnetic,true energies this is so.

Travis (30:33):
It's so funny to think that, like the spiritual
connection people have to this,and then they're just like, well
, how do we commemorate this?
I don't know, put down somefucking pavement.
Yeah, we're gonna walk acrossit and not have it be like a
center of whatever, likegrounding yourself or recharging
your own.

Josh (30:50):
You can't ground through asphalt you can't.

Travis (30:53):
It's a barrier.
It's an energy barrier.
You know what you can groundthrough though what Beef?

Josh (30:57):
I'll have to try that We'll just smear beef on the
ground.

Travis (31:02):
Ground beef.

Josh (31:05):
Yeah, yeah.
So if these, I believe thereare energy hotspots around the
world.
I don't know if they'reconnected, if it is a
coincidence, if you find otherthings in between places that
have these energies, I justdon't know.
It is possible.
But, like I said before, maybeit is and we just don't have the

(31:26):
knowledge or the resources orthe science to figure that.
Maybe someday we will, butthere would take a lot of things
to be able to make that happen,including a mental shift in
everyone to be able to actuallyjust even get funding for making
devices to be able to measure.

Travis (31:43):
Sure, we saw a couple of weeks ago men who stare at
goats, like the funding thatsuddenly appeared and then
disappeared for all thatresearch.

Josh (31:50):
Yeah.

Travis (31:50):
Trying to kill a goat with your mind, yeah.

Josh (31:53):
Yeah, like when you see faces in things.
What was that word?

Travis (31:58):
Oh, pareidolia.

Josh (32:00):
Yeah, where you basically find a pattern that's familiar.

Travis (32:03):
Yeah.

Josh (32:03):
And I think in tons of different aspects of life we try
to find patterns.

Travis (32:08):
You know we were talking about it earlier, just facing
stuff up in your fridge, yeah,like how aesthetically pleasing
that is and how it makes yourbrain some people, not all
people- yeah.
And maybe this is just like atestament to the OCD OGs out
there right Trying to make senseof Everything, Of everything,
anything, anything in theirenvironment.

Josh (32:28):
Our behavior.
We try to make patterns in ourbehavior.

Travis (32:32):
You have people that do not have OCD designing streets
here in Nampa and then peoplethat do, designing streets in
all of Utah.
Right, yeah, maybe.

Josh (32:41):
Or the people that made New York.
Wild Black it is so easy.

Travis (32:45):
Yeah, I mean.

Josh (32:47):
New York streets One, two, three, four, so easy.

Travis (32:49):
There's a great Seinfeld where Kramer is at the corner
of First and First and he's likewhere am I?
Am I at the nexus of theuniverse.
And you have that like rightdown the road.
We're 7th and 7th.

Josh (33:02):
Yeah.

Travis (33:02):
Intersect.
It's like 7th Street and 7thAvenue, and every time I drive
through that intersection I saythat to myself, I to that
intersection, I say that tomyself what's happening.
I'm at the nexus of theuniverse.
That's funny.

Josh (33:11):
So I mean, I thought there was no skeptical anything.

Travis (33:17):
Oh, you were.

Josh (33:17):
So that's, it.

Travis (33:18):
No, that's the one skeptic.
No, there's more.
You want me to pull from this?
Oh, this is.
You're queuing me up to readfrom a dossier because I am the
natural skeptic on the show.
Okay, so sites that do alignoften come from vastly different
historical periods, right?
So you get like the Byzantineand the great Roman empire all

(33:38):
the way up to the Victorian era,right?
For example, a prehistoricmound might align with a
medieval church and a Victorianmonument, raising questions
about whether the alignment wasdeliberate or coincidental.
How can you?
I mean, unless the personthat's building is reacting to
something from the past.
But more often than not, thatmay not.
Even when they're building acathedral or some monument or
whatever next to a historicalmound that might be tied to

(34:02):
Druidism, you know, you mightnot even know that that exists.
So what draws that building tobe there?
Who knows?
Coincidence?
Very likely, I would probablysay so.

Josh (34:12):
I don't think they had zoning.
I don't think they put a ton ofthought.
Some things they did.
They put a ridiculous amount ofthought in.

Travis (34:19):
I think you can look at a lot of these things as like,
the same way like murderers lookat their victims.
So what do they need?
They need an opportunity, rightand motive.

Josh (34:30):
Okay.

Travis (34:31):
So when you're building these, that's opportunity.
That would include likeresources and a need, like a
population that's there andwhat's the other one?
Motive Motive, a reason tobuild something like a
Woolworths, like a cathedral,like a triumphal arch, arctic
triumph, you know, or whatever.

Josh (34:51):
Yeah, like Triumphal Arch, arc de Triomphe you know, or
whatever.
Yeah, I think that especiallyin the newer, like Victorian or
Renaissance, I think theydefinitely had like city
planning and zoning, just sothat there was a flow.
Some cities didn't and you cantell, I mean, rome did yeah 100%
and I think it was about flowand I don't think, especially
when the city was alreadysomewhat made, I don't think

(35:12):
that they would purposely go andbuild something because of an
ancient energy source.

Travis (35:16):
I mean, is like that whole movement, the Feng Shui
movement?
Is that also a ley line tie-in,where people walk into a room
and say, like your energy's off,you need to have your couches
facing this in order to haveproper energy flow.
Are they tapping?

Josh (35:30):
into the same thing.
I think that's more of the flowof the room, like that's kind
of what they're talking about,like alignment of things, if you
have a weird flow.

Travis (35:39):
Yeah, but it's not like you're asking Andrew Lloyd
Wright, is that his name?
Architectural guy.

Josh (35:45):
I think I know what you're talking about Andrew Wright,
something Okay.

Travis (35:49):
It's not like they're asking him to come into a room.
It's usually like somebodyseparate that comes in and
that's their specialty is energyflow and they're usually like a
herbalist or like aspiritualist or they have some
connection to that.
Right yeah, and they're allusually like late thirties,
early forties white ladiestalking to you about feng shui

(36:11):
Of course, the people that knowthe most about it.

Josh (36:14):
I've looked at different top-down looks of what a feng
shui room would look like andthen what one would not Like
things that would Same room,same room, and just how you kind
of align things.
And it is about max energy likeabsorption and flow.
Like, let's say you have a roomand the walkway is right in

(36:35):
between a couch and a chair,you're going to ruin that energy
between if someone's sittinghere and here and it would feel
awkward for the people talkingas well as awkward energy for
the person walking through andthey're going to disrupt energy.
So they're going to make it sothat there is no energy
disrupted in that flow and youcan do that.
There's basically a spiritualscience to it and it's probably

(36:58):
a lot of math as well.
You know you can figure out thebest way a room should be laid
out basically with the leastdisruption of energy.
Okay, yeah, I went on a littlerabbit trail with that one time.
It was very fascinating Math.
Yeah, I went on a little rabbittrail with that one time.

Travis (37:11):
It was very fascinating.

Josh (37:12):
Math, yeah, math.
You either get it or you don't.

Travis (37:14):
Okay, so despite claims of magnetic or spiritual energy
flowing along ley lines, Josh,thank you for queuing that up.
Yeah, Scientific instrumentshave not detected any consistent
anomalies, meaning all thetools on the Earth they're not
able to detect these ley lines.

Josh (37:31):
It's not that they're not able to detect these ley lines,
it's not that they're not ableto detect them.

Travis (37:35):
It's not consistent.
That's the exact same thing.

Josh (37:37):
That is not being Well consistent means that they have
been able to do it, and thenmaybe the next time they weren't
able to.

Travis (37:41):
That's coincidence.
That is 100% coincidence.
That's a theory that's nottested Like if ley lines existed
, there would be definitive waysto test whether or not a ley
line is there.
To say that you can't usescientific equipment to find a
ley line or the findings areinconsistent that is not proof.

Josh (38:05):
Well, what if the energy, as a metaphor, kind of breathes
in and out, so sometimes you canand sometimes you can't,
because energy can fluctuate?
And, like I said, what if wejust don't have the right tools?
What if we're just usingelectrometers or whatever?

Travis (38:16):
Sure, I mean you could say what if?
And then give yourself like astraw man argument for
everything on this planet.

Josh (38:21):
That's not what we're talking about?

Travis (38:22):
We're talking about what it stands right now.
There is no scientificinstrument on planet Earth,
existing or otherwise, that candetect the existence of ley
lines.
Right, right, so now it's justlike a personal feeling.

Josh (38:34):
Yeah.

Travis (38:34):
So personal experiences of these sites may be shaped
more by belief, environment orsuggestion than by any
measurable force.

Josh (38:40):
Which I agree with Absolutely.
I think a lot of people go inkind of like they would in a
church, like someone to go gethealed by the pastor.
They would go to a site andthey go in 100% believing.
You know they're flying becausethey believe.

Travis (38:57):
Yeah, just go to the road, stand on the road like you
do and get healed.

Josh (39:02):
Yeah, if you believe that spot will do it, then do it.

Travis (39:06):
Sure, yeah, if you believe that spot's going to do
it, stand on the road, hopefullylightly trafficked road.
Yeah, is that what Frogger'sabout?
Is someone trying to drawenergy from a ley line and they
just made it into a video game?

Josh (39:17):
Yeah.

Travis (39:18):
Like why else is a frog on a road?

Josh (39:20):
Well, we're not saying that roads are ley lines but yes
, we are Not all of them.

Travis (39:24):
Yes, we're saying that, okay.

Josh (39:25):
There's invisible People pass connecting things.
That's what it's saying.
I don't know if people can feelthe energy.
It seems like the vortexes arewhere the healing or the
spiritual attributes are gained.

Travis (39:37):
I wasn't saying that all roads are ley lines.
I was just pointing out thatley lines are, they do are on
roads, yeah, right.
Or anywhere, yeah, they areanywhere, it's one line between
one thing and another thingTotally arbitrary.

Josh (39:49):
Yeah.

Travis (39:49):
With no way to test it.

Josh (39:50):
And they might not just be one thing.
There could be three or fourthings in between it that still
make a straight line.

Travis (39:56):
That aren't existing yet .

Josh (39:57):
No, they exist.
I mean, there's ancient stonestructures that are all in a
line, in the same line, before avortex, and they will,
coincidentally, all align, andthen when you get to a vortex,
that is where kind of like abigger I think that those are
more astrologically alignedwhere they're using coordinates
in the sky than whatever this is.

(40:19):
Yeah, I mean, we know for a factthat that is a thing for sure.
Some of the earliest knownpeople were doing it and they
would align with stars, withsunrises, they would align with
eclipses.
That's what I was talking aboutearlier, where I didn't think
that they thought very muchabout where they put it.
Sometimes it didn't matter, andthen sometimes they overthought

(40:42):
it and they made it absolutelymind-boggling, where it's like
how did you make something thatcan align with?

Travis (40:48):
everything, yeah.

Josh (40:49):
Well, I think this is interesting, especially with the
evolution kind of how the leylines of just being a connection
of sites to energy lines, toUFO hotspots, to healing areas
and areas of spiritual learningand understanding, I mean I
don't know exactly what it isthere has been an evolution.

(41:11):
There's definitely a culturearound it that love it and
believe it.
For me I would say, as of rightnow, we have no proof, and I
completely agree with that.
There is not proof.
I don't think that necessarilymakes it so it doesn't exist.
Like I said, I believe in areaswith higher energy.
So it doesn't exist.
Like I said, I believe in areaswith higher energy.
It wouldn't blow me away ifthey were connected somehow.

Travis (41:36):
Okay.
So I would say aliens.
Yes, so I don't.
Personally, I don't like ustaking on a stance unless I know
for a fact that it exists.
To say that ley lines exist,but we don't have the proof
tells me that ley lines don'texist.
Now, if there is proof outthere, then I will accept that

(41:57):
as true.
But as it stands right nowthere's no proof, so no truth
for me.

Josh (42:02):
I totally get that you do believe in aliens, but there's
no proof.

Travis (42:05):
No, I believe you have a belief.
I do have a belief in aliens.
Yes, yes, you believe they arereal, but there is no proof.
I believe that there is proof,though, because of how big our
universe is, as it's everexpanding.
It is so big that, if we wereto even try to think about how
big it is, it would make ourbrain fall out of our face.

(42:26):
Yeah, right, and back in and,and then so to me that is enough
proof that something elseexists out there, because it's
so big and so vast and there areso many opportunities out there
for life to exist.

Josh (42:40):
I just that is enough proof for me about with the
amount of not proof, but theamount of things in the alien
world right now on earth.
There's so many examples insituations that like that's
enough proof for me that we haveat least been in contact or

(43:01):
they are here, including justthat, it's uncomprehensible that
they wouldn't exist because ofhow big, like what you said, how
, how big everything is.
So if there is, and then all ofthe talk and instances and
encounters, and I mean it justseems like enough is there for
it to be real.

(43:22):
But there isn't definitive proofon anything, so it is all
belief for sure.

Travis (43:27):
Yep, it has to be.
But I'm also like a dumb idiotliving in this world, you know,
making my own way, creating myown belief system.
So that's just where my beliefsfall.

Josh (43:37):
Yeah.

Travis (43:37):
I am by no means an expert on anything.
Yeah, and that's it.
That's all I was going to say.

Josh (43:42):
I didn't have any further to go.

Travis (43:44):
I'm not an expert on anything.

Josh (43:45):
Yeah, so are ley lines real.
That depends on what we defineas real.

Travis (43:51):
I say no, I don't believe they exist.
I like the idea of them in likefantasy and as a way to like
draw power, but I don't I meanjust based on what we talked
about here on the show today.
No, there's nothing, nothingthat we talked about that tells
me that they exist or thatthere's any proof or even like
point to them.

Josh (44:11):
Yeah Well, if we're asking whether ley lines exist as
scientifically measurable forcesintentionally aligning things
across time and culture, theanswer right now is no.

Travis (44:24):
Yep, that's it.
Yeah, it's a no for me dogright now, just based on the
information that we have.

Josh (44:29):
But what does real mean?
Oh God, because if we're askingwhether the Leylands are real
in the sense that they offerpeople meaning and connection,
Okay, sure, I mean, yeah, thenthey're real.

Travis (44:41):
If somebody wants to believe in something hard enough
, then yes, then the Tooth Fairyis real and magic does exist in
the world.
That's the whole reason forSanta Claus existing is wanting
to have some elements of magicin the world.
That's like the whole reasonfor Santa Claus existing is
wanting to have some elements ofmagic in this world.
And if that's what grown upadults want to believe, that's
fine.
There's no harm in it.
It's not hurting anybody tobelieve in a ley line.
I'm just saying for me,personally, I don't believe in

(45:02):
it.
I don't think the people thatbelieve in ley lines have like
some sort of mental deficiencyor they can't really process
certain physical things in theirlife.
I'm not saying that at all.
I'm just I just, for me, do notbelieve that they exist, given
the details that we've talkedabout in this show.

Josh (45:20):
Yeah, I'm not against it, I'm not for it.
Like you said, it doesn'tmatter.
It kind of reminds me of, likethe great flood that's mentioned
in all history.
We know there was a flood, butwe didn't know that until the
last hundred years, with scienceand data and being able to
figure that out Because itappeared in tons of different
cultures.
Just like this throughouthistory and generations, it's

(45:43):
inspired a ton of people toexplore, reflect and reimagine
their entire relationship withthe world.
Sure, so I don't know, it couldbe spiritual metaphors, it
could be psychologicalprojections, ancient wayfinder
tools, moana, or simply justcompelling evidence, but the
truth, if there is one, isdefinitely open to
interpretation.

Travis (46:03):
When you put it in that context sure sure, and it's not
hurting anybody.
There's nothing gained or lostwith ley lines, other than like
the spiritual benefit one mightreceive from walking along a ley
line or visiting a ley line.
You know great.
More power to you.

Josh (46:20):
Yeah, and as with a lot of mysteries, I think the most
interesting part isn't if leylines are real.
It's why we keep looking atthem, which is a whole different
field of science, but it isdefinitely extremely intriguing.
Well, I invite all of you tokeep listening.

Travis (46:39):
Are we wrapping up the show already?
Yeah, we still have a quiz.

Josh (46:42):
Yeah, we'll get there.
So thank you guys for listening.
Definitely let us know what youthink and you can also leave
comments on sites like Spotifyand you can send us fan mail
through our link in the shownotes and definitely rate us,
because that'll kind of bump usup.
Let us know that you'reenjoying us or not enjoying us.
Don't leave a review.

(47:02):
If it's mean, that's just mean.

Travis (47:03):
Yeah, don't, I mean don't.

Josh (47:05):
Like that hurts us more than it should and you don't
have a reason to hurt us.

Travis (47:09):
If you want to say something that's hurtful, send
it to Josh's address, his homeaddress, yeah.

Josh (47:16):
In a package made out of newspaper clippings.
I wouldn't recommend doing that.
No, that That'll put you on alist.

Travis (47:22):
But if you just want to vent and you want to send Josh
some hateful email or regularmail, sorry, go ahead and do
that, yeah, but just don't giveus a negative review.

Josh (47:31):
Yeah.

Travis (47:32):
That's just hurtful.

Josh (47:32):
Yeah, we're trying to build something.
Yeah, but we'd love to hearfrom you guys.
We, as of the time of thisrecording, have not received
anything.
And we would love to, even ifit's a high.
I'd love something.
I beg you.
No, I'm kidding, I don't begPlease, God Please.

(47:53):
And that leaves us to our endof show quiz.
So our quiz topic, which is thetopic of the next episode, is
close encounters.

Travis (48:03):
Of a specific kind.

Josh (48:04):
Is close encounters just like getting close to aliens?

Travis (48:08):
Not too close, but close enough, close enough.

Josh (48:11):
To being considered an encounter.

Travis (48:13):
I guess, yeah, I don't know shit about this.

Josh (48:15):
I don't either, I think.
I mean, unless there'ssomething else, okay.
First question how manyofficial types of close
encounters are there?
Okay, Is it A3, b4, c5, or D6?
Oh, D6, huh.
I would imagine the closestencounter would be penetration.

Travis (48:35):
How much closer do you need to get?

Josh (48:37):
I mean, you're inside, they're inside.

Travis (48:39):
I don't think you go inside an alien.
I think they go inside you.
It's like Yakov Smirnoff's jokeOn my ship alien goes inside
you.

Josh (48:47):
I'm not going to kink, shame.

Travis (48:51):
I'm just saying that would be the encounter Caused
Randy Quaid to crash hishelicopter into a spaceship on
Independence Day.

Josh (48:56):
I would do the same if I was that upset Gone inside.
Okay, yeah, I'm going to sayyou said there's a fourth, so
fifth, I'm going to say sixth.

Travis (49:05):
I'm all in.

Josh (49:06):
on sixth yeah, I'm going to say sixth, I don't know.
I'm glad there's not like 20.
That just makes me feel alittle more comfortable spectrum
.

Travis (49:14):
Yeah, I think 20 would be great.
Six is just like oh shit,they're gonna get.
It goes from like one reallybenign encounter and then just
to six and you're just likefucking.
It goes from like that to 100,really quick yeah, I want sub
categories like I want like a hi, how are you?
I want to get to know the alien.
I wanted to maybe buy me adrink yeah, okay.

Josh (49:35):
Next question who originally developed the close
encounters classification system?
Okay, is it a carl sagan, b, jalan hynek, c jacques valet or d
dr stephen greer?
These are all pretty prominent.

Travis (49:52):
Are they Names?
Yeah, you know C, I do know C.
You know C very well.

Josh (49:57):
I've seen Jacques Vallée in four or five different
documentaries.
I think he actually was aconsultant and had a big part of
Project Blue Book.
Okay, so you know what's youranswer.

Travis (50:07):
I'm actually going to say Jacques Vallée.
Okay, I'm pretty sure it's notCarl Sagan, but I don't want to
rule that out.
But I'm going to say StephenGreer.
For some reason, there'ssomething about the way his name
lays there on that line I'mgoing to pick it.

Josh (50:21):
Okay.
So next question what defines aclose encounter of the first
kind?
Is it A seeing a UFO on theground, first kind so a seeing a
ufo on the ground, b seeing aufo in the sky, c being abducted
by aliens or d witnessing cropcircles appear?
I, I mean, I would imagine.
Unless it's reversed, I wouldimagine the first kind is like

(50:43):
the lowest now you're talkingabout low in relation to the
ground.
No, I'm saying that would be themost distant, that would be B.
Unless, number one is likewinning, and it's the closest
you can get.
But I imagine we wouldn't startat that.

Travis (51:01):
What, seeing it on the ground.

Josh (51:02):
No start at one being the closest, because we're going up,
so I would say it's not goingto be the closest, probably one
of the more distant encounters.
So I would say, seeing a UFO inthe sky, mm-hmm, that's what I
think.

Travis (51:17):
Same.
That's what I'm going to say.
Okay, I don't know what youwere talking about with, like,
when you say closest a lot,you're talking about proximity,
like how close the thing is toyou personally, because you
could walk around the woods andsay there was a clearing and see
a ship there.

Josh (51:34):
Well, I view it like if you and I had an encounter.
Yeah, when does it become anencounter?
It's probably when we see eachother.
Huh, it could be any distance,even if we're really far away,
it's still an encounter.

Travis (51:47):
I always looked at it as like you get a visual of it.
So I'm probably wrong, but Iwould just say a visual.

Josh (51:55):
It could be in the on the ground or in the sky yeah I had
already locked in in the sky soI'm wondering if number two is
communicate, then what the fuckis number three and four and
five and six?
If there is that many, Idon't's spooky, like you said,
if it escalates that quickly, Idon't know what else.
Yeah, that's weird.

(52:15):
Okay, next question A closeencounter of the second kind
includes what additional factorA a physical trace or
environmental effect, btelepathic communication, c
multiple witnesses or D sightinglasting longer than 30 minutes?
Okay, so that's a little morecomforting.

(52:36):
That's hard.
I'm going to go kind of likewhat I was talking about.
I don't like the telepathic.
I thought it was just going tobe communication.
It's a form of communication,it is.
I'm going to do that telepathiccommunication.
I don't like the telepathicpart, like because I would just
but maybe that's how alienscommunicate Mm-hmm.

Travis (52:56):
Um, I'm going to say a sighting lasting longer than 30
minutes.

Josh (52:58):
Okay, that would be spooky too, actually.
Mm-hmm, all right.
Next question which of thefollowing best describes a close
encounter of the third kind?
Is of the third kind?
Is it A contact with militaryofficials, b evidence of
radiation, c sightings of beingassociated with the UFO, or D
UFOs appearing on radar?

(53:19):
Oh man, maybe I was a littletoo rushed in my communication
theory.

Travis (53:23):
Too bad, can't go back.
You already locked it in.
You'd have to re-edit thiswhole segment.
Uh-oh, Josh is going to get toprobe a lot faster than I'm
going to get to probe.
I think you're right.

Josh (53:35):
Well, this one's kind of throwing a wrench in my hole,
Okay.
So I'm going to say I mean Icould go with it.
Contact with military officials, that's what you're going to
say.
I'm going to say that that'sthe closest to what I had in my
mind.

Travis (53:48):
To the narrative you've created, correct.

Josh (53:49):
Yes.

Travis (53:50):
I'm saying sightings of beings associated with the UFO.

Josh (53:52):
Oh dang, I misread that in my mind.
I think I correctly read it outloud, but I didn't realize that
there was beings.
I'm going to do sightings withbeings.
I think that's the right answerJosh.
Yeah, okay.
Next question whatcharacterizes a close encounter
of the fourth kind?
Okay, so we know.
There's four At least, at leastA a loss of time with no memory

(54:16):
.
B radar detection of a UFO.
C the appearance of cropcircles.
Or D alien abduction.
I mean, if I'm going to go onthis probe trend, this quick
probe trend, I'm going to goalien abduction.

Travis (54:31):
I've already walked go.
Alien abduction.

Josh (54:32):
I've already locked in alien abduction Really All right
.
So we're kind of on the probetrain together.

Travis (54:35):
I actually went through the whole quiz and just locked
in my answers.
What, yeah?

Josh (54:40):
Okay, it's not a cheat?

Travis (54:41):
No, I know, it's not a cheat.

Josh (54:42):
I just thought we'd do this together.
I thought we were on the probetrain.
Hop on another train and go.

Travis (54:48):
I was.
You were, you were spending alot of time talking about your
reasoning and I was just likeyep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep,
yep, yep, okay.

Josh (54:54):
All right.
Last question Close encountersof the fifth kind refers to what
specific kind of interaction?
Okay, hostile alien actions A BAlien human, b alien-human
hybridization.

Travis (55:10):
That means boinking.
And then that thing coming toterm and growing and growing and
now you have a minotaur.

Josh (55:17):
Yeah, that's how minotaurs came about.
That's creepy.

Travis (55:20):
Yeah, the hybridization.

Josh (55:22):
Yeah, I wasn't expecting that.
I was really looking for theprobe, just like the Spanish
Inquisition.

Travis (55:28):
You can never expect it.

Josh (55:29):
Okay, so we have A hostile alien actions, b alien-human
hybridization yeah.
C human-initiated contact withextraterrestrials.
That sounds nice.

Travis (55:38):
That does sound nice.
That sounds like we hold thecards.

Josh (55:41):
And D the appearance of ancient alien artifacts.
Okay, I'm just going to skipover the hybridization.

Travis (55:50):
Don't even like to think about it, no, I'm just going to
skip over the hybridization.

Josh (55:51):
Don't even like to think about it, no, I'm going to say
hostile alien actions, becausethat could be a probe.

Travis (55:55):
Okay, Got it.
Abduction probe.
That was my answer too.

Josh (55:58):
Really Wow, yep, okay.
So there's five kinds that Iknow of.
There's a lot of like, unlessthere's more and we're going to
learn.

Travis (56:05):
There's a lot of movie tie tie-in trivia with this.

Josh (56:08):
Oh good, yeah, That'll be good.
Have you seen those movies,mm-hmm.
Okay, so I'm going to submit myquiz and see the accuracy.

Travis (56:16):
Oh, oh, oh terrible again, as always.

Josh (56:21):
How many official types of Close Encounters are there?
I said six, I said six, yousaid six.
The answer is five.

Travis (56:27):
Oh man, that's scary.

Josh (56:32):
So there is five.
Oh man, that's scary.
So there is five.
Okay, who originally developedthe close encounters
classification system?
I said jacques valet.
You said stephen greer.

Travis (56:38):
The right answer is jl and hynek, which I just.
I didn't even pay attention tothat because I saw carl sagan
and then josh picked the frenchguy, damn it okay, next one.

Josh (56:51):
What defines a close encounter of the first kind?
I said seeing a UFO in the sky.
You did as well, right?

Travis (56:57):
So we both got that one right.

Josh (56:58):
Okay, next one A close encounter of the second kind
includes what additional factorI said, telepathic communication
.

Travis (57:05):
Yeah, I said a sighting lasting longer than 30 minutes.

Josh (57:09):
And the correct one was a physical trace or environmental
effect.
Okay, which could be small orhuge Depending.
I mean yeah, I meanenvironmental, I mean they could
.

Travis (57:19):
How do you know that that was an encounter and not
just, like I don't know, someonewalking around the woods with
trash cans on their feet?

Josh (57:29):
All right, Next one what best describes the third kind
Close encounter?
I said sighting of beingsassociated with UFO.
I changed it.
You said the same.
That is correct.
You changed it.
I changed it because I was likeoh, seeing the being, not just
the craft that checks out.

Travis (57:46):
I just wanted to be on record saying I got it right
from the start.

Josh (57:50):
Yeah, you did All right.
Next one what characterizes aclose encounter of the fourth
kind?
Alien abduction?
We both got that right.
We're looking All right,halfsies Okay.
Close encounter of the fifthkind.
First, to what specific kind ofinteraction I said hostile
alien actions.

Travis (58:08):
I said hostile alien, you said hostile Yep.

Josh (58:10):
Okay, it was actually human-initiated contact with
extraterrestrials.
The nice one, the nice, yeah,that's the one I well, it's kind
of like the movie shit, I justforgot it where they go to the
ship and she's trying tocommunicate with them, like, and
the whole thing is about tryingto learn their language.
Arrival, arrival.

Travis (58:28):
Yeah.

Josh (58:29):
Yeah, it's kind of like that.

Travis (58:30):
I mean they appear but then we go to them.
Yeah, we send a linguist andyeah, yeah.
Amy Adams.

Josh (58:36):
That was a great movie, very good, good book, all right.
Well, I have a lot to learn.
I'm really curious on wherethis is going to go and what
information is out there of eachof these.

Travis (58:45):
I'm terrified.
This is uh.
This is my nightmare.

Josh (58:49):
Yeah, like, and so if a fifth exists, does that mean
that we have had human?
I don't know.
I'm really excited.

Travis (58:57):
Well, they have to categorize it, I guess, and so
they're like let's round it outat five and we'll just come up
with criteria for each five.
Five's a nice easy number.

Josh (59:05):
So eventually the hybridization would be a number
at some point.

Travis (59:08):
Yeah, I mean, if you follow, if we keep going, if you
follow, like what humanity hasdone since the dawn of
civilization, is we fuckeverything?
Can I kill it or can I fuck it?

Josh (59:19):
Yeah Doesn't matter, yep Doesn't matter.
Yeah, well, sweet, I'm excited,that's gonna be a good one.

Travis (59:24):
Yeah.

Josh (59:24):
Thanks for listening again .
Like we said, get a hold of us,let us know your answers.
If you did worse than us, we'dlove to feel better about
ourselves.

Travis (59:32):
Yeah, yeah, I mean chances are, though you're
probably going to lie about theanswers and say you got 100%.
Probably.

Josh (59:39):
Well, thanks for listening and we'll catch you on this
next episode about CloseEncounters.

Travis (59:44):
All right, catch you on the flip-a-dee-flop.

Josh (59:46):
All right, bye, bye.