April 11, 2025 • 35 mins
Is this the UK's version of the US's Roswell incident, or just a really intense light show courtesy of the Orford Ness Lighthouse?
We delve into the Rendlesham Forest Incident, a puzzling case of UFO sightings that left US Air Force personnel stationed at a joint RAF-US base utterly baffled.
Mysterious lights, strange indentations in the forest floor (possibly deer with very specific hoof patterns), and a binary code that allegedly leads to ancient sites around the world—the Rendlesham story is a labyrinth of conflicting testimonies and unexplained phenomena. Join Travis Wright and Josh Snodgrass as they navigate the facts, history, and lore as we exploring the accounts of those who were there.
Did they witness an extraterrestrial encounter, or was there a more terrestrial explanation? Listen in and decide for yourself.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Travis (00:04):
aliens yes but maybe no.
Well, welcome back to the showaliens, aliens.
Josh (00:23):
Yes.
Travis (00:25):
But maybe no, I'm Travis and I'm Josh.
This is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title.
So Josh.
Josh (00:35):
I missed you.
Not you, Travis, I was talkingto the listeners the audience,
oh yeah.
Travis (00:42):
Well, I missed you.
I missed you every second thatyou were gone.
Josh (00:45):
Josh, thank you so the last episode, we did a test
about this episode, about thistopic yeah, and we decided on
rendless ham.
Travis (00:56):
That was one of the pronunciations.
That was my pronunciation.
It's rendlesham forest,rendless, am I saying it right?
And I think I remember youdidn't get any questions,
correct, my pronunciation it'sRendlesham Forest, rendlesham,
am I saying it right?
And I think I remember youdidn't get any questions correct
?
Josh (01:10):
No, I think I got 100%.
I can probably change that inediting.
Travis (01:15):
If you're just dropping in to this episode, I got 100%
on every quiz.
Josh (01:20):
Wow, how convenient.
Don't go back and listen, yeah,don't go back.
Travis (01:23):
Just trust, yeah, don't go back, just trust, yeah, just
believe me.
Josh (01:27):
So yeah, today we're going to talk about the Rendlesham
Forest Incident.
Travis (01:31):
So where are we at geographically Like, where is
this place?
Josh (01:34):
This is in Suffolk, england, and it's a US Air Force
station.
Basically, it's a base.
Travis (01:42):
Yeah, it's a US Air Force that is stationed at a
Royal Air Force, which is theBritish version.
Sounds cooler, yeah, raf.
Raf yeah Sounds pretty cool,stationed at the RAF Woodbridge
Base.
Josh (01:56):
Yeah, and that base is right outside the Rendlesham
Forest, and this incidenthappened the day after Christmas
, december 26th, boxing day thatyou might say.
Is that?
Mm-hmm?
It's the day after.
That's fun, yeah, whereeveryone just goes around
punching each other, uh-huh.
Travis (02:12):
Yeah, fighting, yeah.
So this is 1980.
You weren't even a twinkle inyour dad's eye or your mother's
eye.
I was just a little over a yearold, really, huh.
Josh (02:22):
I was just a little over a year old, really, huh yeah, I
was born in 87.
Travis (02:25):
79.
Ooh, redact that.
Bleep that out, josh.
I don't want anybody to knowany personal information about
me.
Since we started this podcast,I've been getting really
paranoid.
Josh (02:34):
I'll censor the century.
Travis (02:37):
Okay, so they don't know , I'll just say 79.
Josh (02:41):
I think you just said something 2079?
You 2079.
Travis (02:43):
I think you just said 2079.
You could be from the future.
We'll get more into that, maybelater in this podcast.
Josh (02:47):
I think so.
So yeah, some personnel at thisAir Force base saw mysterious
lights hovering above the forest.
Sergeant Jim Penniston.
Travis (02:57):
Some might pronounce it Penistown Some.
Josh (03:00):
Me.
So every time you hear thatname, auto-correct in your head
yeah, so, jim, I can't even sayhis name now jim penniston and
airman john burroughs.
They went out into the woods toinvestigate what was going on.
The men encountered atriangular metallic craft with
pulsating white light, about sixto nine feet wide and resting
(03:23):
on the forest floor.
So they just walk in the forestand there's this ship.
Yeah, that's kind of a smallship, six to nine feet.
Travis (03:31):
Yeah, it's like the size of a really tall car.
Josh (03:35):
This is six to nine feet wide.
Travis (03:37):
That's still like.
My car is probably nine feetand you drive a Fiat.
Josh (03:42):
Yeah, a little tiny.
Travis (03:45):
I'm giving away a lot of personal information.
I drive a Fiat.
You guys have never heard of it.
Josh (03:52):
So I mean it's the size of a sedan, sure, basically.
So, seeing that there weresymbols that looked like
hieroglyphs on the craft,penniston touched them and was
blinded by light.
When his vision returned, thecraft lifted intoiston touched
them and was blinded by light.
When his vision returned, thecraft lifted into the air, and
he quickly wrote down as much ashe could remember in his
notebook.
After examining the area andthe indentations left in the
ground from the landed craft,the two officers made their way
(04:15):
back to the base.
So what about the other officer?
What was he doing?
Well, this guy had passed out.
Did he also pass out?
I'm not, do you know?
I don't.
I think one made it seem asthough it was just seconds that
passed and one it seemed asminutes had passed.
So there was time lost for sure.
Classic, yeah.
(04:36):
And to their surprise, whenthey were heading back, they
were met with a search partybecause they'd been out looking
for them, because they were gonelonger than they realized.
I think they were gone forabout 45 minutes instead of just
a couple minutes.
So at 4 am the police werecalled to the location, but they
determined the lights were fromthe Bobbies.
They're called Bobbies LightsPolice.
(04:58):
No, yeah.
Travis (05:00):
They're called Bobbies.
They're called Bobbies in theUK.
That's fun, everyone else hasfun words.
They're very cute.
Josh (05:05):
Yeah, but they determined the lights were from the Orford
Nest Lighthouse, so that's anoption.
It could have been that.
Travis (05:13):
Is Rendlesham near a body of water?
Josh (05:17):
I don't know.
I saw some images.
It looked a couple miles out,okay, but light travels quick.
Travis (05:22):
You might say I mean, it's not.
I've seen faster, but it is upthere.
As far as speed's concerned,I'm just right below Cheetah.
Josh (05:31):
Right below Cheetah close to light.
Travis (05:33):
Yeah, very good, Then light yep.
Josh (05:36):
On the night of December 28th 1980, two days after the
initial sighting, the strangelights reappeared.
Sighting the strange lightsreappeared.
This time, lieutenant colonelcharles halt, the deputy base
commander, led a team equippedwith a tape recorder and various
instruments into the forest todocument the activity.
Travis (05:52):
It's so funny that he was like we need to go into the
forest, we're going to documentthis, what do I need?
And he's just looking aroundand he decides on tape recorder
yeah, I mean it is the 80s.
Josh (06:03):
Yeah, I mean the tape recorders were a big thing.
Yeah, I imagine it was theclassic one where it's like flat
and the thing pops up yeah, andyou have to it has a handle on
it and you can get around with Iimagine that's what it was, and
they probably had a microphoneattachment, sure?
so his tapes captures his voiceas he observes radiation
(06:23):
readings coming from theindentations in the ground and
discolored trees around the site.
At one point he witnessed asmall red light appear between
the trees and describes beams oflight coming down from a
glowing object in the sky.
He's lucky, okay, yeah what doyou mean?
Travis (06:39):
I don't know.
Josh (06:39):
I was lucky like he went out to investigate something and
then something happened.
He, he got it.
Yeah, despite the surrealexperience, holt and his team
felt pressure to downplay theevent.
Upon returning to the base,holt wrote a memo summarizing
the events, which he sent to theBritish Ministry of Defense.
It briefly described thesightings and physical evidence,
but offered little in the wayof explanations.
Travis (07:02):
Just reporting facts.
Josh (07:04):
Yeah, but it sounds like he was downplaying it.
This is like eh, this happenedwhatever, I don't care, yeah.
So while the Ministry ofDefense did take note of the
report, the official stance wasthat the incident posed no
threat to security and the casewas effectively closed.
However, many of those involvedbelieved there was more to the
story.
Penniston later claimed that ashe touched the craft, he
(07:27):
received a telepathic messageflooding his mind with streams
of binary code.
Upon returning to the base,penniston couldn't shake the
persistent memory of the binarycode.
Over the following days, hefelt compelled to record the
sequences in his notebook.
It wasn't until 30 years laterthat he shared the pages filled
with the mysterious code withresearchers.
When decoded, the binarymessage revealed coordinates for
(07:50):
locations around the world,including ancient, significant
sites like the Pyramids of Egyptor the Nazca Lines in Peru.
Travis (07:57):
The modern binary number system.
The basis for binary code, wasinvented by Gottfried Leibniz in
1689.
Hmm, Anyway, I thought binarywas much newer.
Josh (08:08):
So did I Like?
What was that guy smoking?
Future smoke, oh, mm-hmm, allright.
So John Burroughs also laterexperienced health issues
stemming from exposure to theradiation.
However, when he requested hismedical records, the military
denied access to them becausethey had been classified, and
they remain classified to thisday.
(08:28):
I would be so pissed if I wentto get medical records because
my life, my health, was fallingapart and they wouldn't give it
to me, especially if you hadlike a persistent health thing
and you needed access to yourmedical records.
Yeah, and that's what he wastrying to.
I mean, he was going throughhealth issues because of
radiation and they were tryingto figure out what exactly it
(08:49):
was.
And they ended up figuring itout without that, but it took a
lot longer, without his records,without his records.
And then, once they figured outwhat it was, they released some
of the records, but they didn'trelease all of them, just
enough to tempt you.
Yep.
So in 1981 there was a haltmemo where colonel charles halt
basically detailed the deputybase commander to the uk
(09:10):
ministry of defense.
Travis (09:11):
Yeah, he detailed the events, including the radiation
Halt.
Deputy Base Commander to the UKMinistry of Defense.
Josh (09:14):
Yeah, he detailed the events, including the radiation
readings and the sightings ofthe glowing objects.
Then there was the Halt tapes,the audio recording by Halt
during his investigation.
Travis (09:23):
So these are all sources that are backing up this claim.
Right that something happened,Right.
Josh (09:29):
Okay, and then there was witness statements in 1997.
Okay, so 17 years after the,there was witness statements in
1997.
Travis (09:34):
Okay, so 17 years after the fact, these statements were
taken.
Josh (09:38):
Yeah.
Travis (09:38):
That seems a little weird.
Josh (09:40):
It does.
And some of them were sayingthat they attribute the lights
to the farmhouse or the OrfordNest Lighthouse yeah, which we
talked about earlier.
But I mean, why do they carethat many years later?
Travis (09:52):
Witnesses who don't believe.
It depends on who's conductingthis investigation.
It might be somebody that islooking to prove that there was
a paranormal incident here.
Josh (10:02):
I guess that's true, Because it sounded like it was
just dropped by the military.
English and US, yeah.
Then there was the Haltaffidavit.
Halt reaffirms his belief in2010 that the extraterrestrial
nature of the event was real,and he alleges a UK-US cover-up
which is cool, you do love acover-up.
(10:24):
I do love a cover-up and I likeit when countries work together.
Yeah, big fan of cooperation.
Yeah, in 2005, there was alocal police log.
The police were called to thescene and they also attributed
lights to the lighthouse and theground impressions that were
left by the spaceship.
They contributed that toanimals.
Travis (10:44):
What took so long for them to get access to this
police log.
This is now 25 years after thishad happened.
Josh (10:52):
I have no idea.
It's weird.
Yeah, it's really weird.
In 2001, the Ministry ofDefense file a largely internal
correspondence and publicresponses indicating a lack of
in-depth investigation.
Travis (11:06):
Okay, so this Ministry of Defense file might explain
why, in 2005, 2010, we saw aresurgence in this incident,
because they opened it up againsaying like why wasn't this
investigated more?
There's not enough information,we need more.
So they went back and looked.
Josh (11:22):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So the Daniel Davis analysis ITconsultants analyzed Sergeant
Penniston's binary code,revealing possible geographic
coordinates and intriguingpatterns.
Travis (11:35):
Yeah, because he said that it was hieroglyphics or
whatever, which is.
Josh (11:38):
I mean that makes you think of like ancient aliens and
For sure the people who usedhieroglyphs learned it from the
aliens, like it's actually analien language which I don't
know.
I'm a little skeptical aboutthis story just because the
sergeant and the colonel, theirstories, have changed multiple
times and drastically throughoutthe years but we're seeing that
(12:00):
a lot, with a lot of thesefirst-hand experiences, like
years later they've they'vechanged their story.
Travis (12:07):
So far, I mean through the course of, like, the little
bit of research we've done forthis podcast, a little time
we've been recording.
That has been anecdotally thecase.
What are some of the others?
Well, most notably, travisWalton.
His brother-in-law had redactedhis testimony of Travis getting
abducted and then, years later,when Travis was going to adapt
(12:28):
his story again, oh, he came outsaying that it was.
He came out saying that it wasfalse.
He came out saying that it wasfalse and then they settled it
outside of whatever, like itwasn't a court case necessarily,
that I remember.
But he's like, okay, yeah, fine, I, whatever, I, I will redact
my redaction of saying that this, this had happened.
I will delete my Facebook post.
Yeah, I'll delete my Facebookpost.
(12:50):
Exactly, nothing's ever reallydeleted, is it?
No, not anymore.
Josh (12:54):
So here are some arguments for people who believe.
Okay, there was multipleeyewitnesses.
So several US Air Forcepersonnel, including Lieutenant
Colonel Charles Holt, sergeantJim Penniston and Airman John
Burroughs, reported witnessingthe event.
The consistency in theirdescription of strange lights
and craft and physical evidenceadds a credibility to their
(13:16):
accounts.
And they're also high-rankingofficers.
Sure, also halt audio recordingmade during the second night of
sightings captures hisobservations and reactions in
real time, adding to theauthenticity of their claims.
Okay, so that's, that's goodevidence.
Travis (13:33):
Audio recordings, though it's kind of hard, I don't know
.
I have a hard time believingjust an audio recording.
I want to see it with my own.
Josh (13:41):
I mean, yeah, you could say like in an audio recording
and be like what's that?
Oh my gosh, is this alienspaceship?
Travis (13:47):
yeah, you could just be narrating something that you're
maybe not even seeing yeah, andthey're just hanging around
smoking cigars.
Josh (13:52):
Yeah, they could just be doing an audio drama.
Exactly.
I want to know what these guys'childhood looked like.
What if they were just?
They all wanted to be actors,podcasters.
They wanted to be podcasters,which makes sense.
This was the first podcast.
Travis (14:06):
This could have been well.
The first podcast was probablylike any of the radio dramas
that we heard, those wereessentially podcasts.
Josh (14:13):
Yeah, so there's also physical evidence.
Believers often point to thephysical traces left at the site
, such as the triangularindentations in the ground where
the craft allegedly landed.
Travis (14:24):
Yeah, that's deer with their triangle hooves.
Josh (14:27):
And then scorch marks on the nearby trees and readings of
elevated radiation levels.
Travis (14:31):
The video we watched, it wasn't scorch marks that were
documented, it was, they said.
It looked like something hadrubbed against like a twisting.
Josh (14:39):
Yeah, I'm just saying this is just what evidence that
people believe I'm not.
I mean the radiation levelsthat are there were normal
background radiation.
It wasn't anything out of theordinary.
Travis (14:50):
And then some accounts were like they were loggers or
people that were marking treesto be cut.
Josh (14:55):
Right.
Another physical evidence thatbelievers point out is the
photographs and plaster casts ofthe indentations, and they were
actually taken by the Air Forcepersonnel providing visual
documentation on the site.
But, like you said, if it'sjust deer, yeah, I mean deer
with their triangle hooves.
Travis (15:14):
yeah, why?
Josh (15:15):
are you looking at me?
Travis (15:16):
I don't know, because I keep saying triangle hooves,
thinking that joke is gonna land, and you just you're like they
do have triangle hooves.
You move right on.
Not like a triangle likethey're describing.
It's not like an actualtriangle.
It has, like you know what?
I'm spending too much time ondeer hooves.
You, you got me, josh.
I know I tried to get you andyou got me back.
Josh (15:36):
Yeah, I know a hoof.
There's also telepathic binarycode.
That happened.
While it's highly controversial, some believers see its
complexity in reference asevidence of contact with
intelligence beyond ourunderstanding.
Travis (15:51):
So what did this binary code reveal?
Josh (15:57):
They said that to a mathematician who was able to
decipher it right, or thatallegedly yeah, there was like a
small little, not poem, butbasically it's like we're doing
planetary observations,something about eyes of our eyes
eyes of our eyes, moon of mymoon.
No, that Moon of my moon.
Travis (16:13):
No, that was Game of Thrones, but it also included
coordinates for locations aroundthe world, like Pyramids of
Egypt, a place in Peru, one ofthe temples in Greece, oh yeah.
Josh (16:27):
So my first thought when I heard that he had binary code,
I believed what I heard that hewrote this down right after the
event.
Travis (16:36):
No, he didn't write it down right after the event we
talked about that.
Josh (16:39):
It was days later, but still in the 80s, my first
thought was like okay, there'sno internet, there's probably no
way he knew binary.
How else would he get thesecoordinates if he didn't have
the internet and then put itinto binary?
I mean it's all pretty crazy,but it not being revealed until
2010 is a little more sus yeah,total sus Susery at its finest.
(16:59):
Also, that it's in English, sothe code translates into English
as well.
As it is a newer form of binary.
Instead of being seven bit, itwas an eight bit binary, yep.
So all of these make it alittle more hard to believe, but
I was really excited when Ifirst heard it.
Travis (17:19):
Well, you know, all aliens have an English class in
their high school.
They have to take, it'srequired for them to graduate.
Josh (17:25):
I would imagine that they have some form of education.
Travis (17:28):
When they say English is the universal language, they
mean the universe, the languageof the universe, see, this is
why you're here yeah, you pointout the obvious.
If you point out the obvious,you're always right uh, there's
also government involvement insecrecy.
Josh (17:42):
So classic government.
Yeah, this is where I getexcited.
Okay, the incident wasdocumented in a memo sent to the
british ministry of defense,suggesting that authorities took
the report seriously, at leastinitially.
The memo is often cited asevidence that the government had
knowledge and a little bit ofinterest in the event.
Yeah, some believers argue thatthe government's dismissal of
(18:05):
the event is indicative of acover-up, pointing to alleged
efforts to suppress theincident's true nature, which I
think we've seen multiple timesbefore.
Travis (18:15):
Yeah, like it's that classic.
There's nothing to see here.
Folks keep moving, like whenyou see an accident happening or
a bunch of police officersgathered together and then you
have all the looky-loos.
The police will say, like moveon, move on.
Josh (18:29):
Nothing to see here, that's right.
So those are some of the fewarguments for the believers.
There's also a lot of argumentsfor the skeptics, so one of the
things.
Travis (18:40):
Oh boy, here, this is my jam.
Josh (18:43):
So there's possible misinterpretations of natural
phenomena.
Some of the things that happenmay have not truly been what
happened.
One of the things that theytalked about was the lighthouse
which we talked was a couplemiles away.
The light that these people sawwas happening in five second
intervals and the lighthouse wasset at a five second interval
(19:04):
so the light would shine everyfive seconds.
So that kind of seems like itdebunks it right there, like I
saw light every five seconds,like oh well, that lighthouse
shines the light every fiveseconds yeah like, oh the
argument for skeptics about thechanging testimonies and the
inconsistencies over the years.
what happened at night varied,particularly regarding the
(19:25):
details of what Penniston andBurroughs saw and experienced.
For example, Penniston's claimof receiving telepathic message
wasn't revealed until many yearslater, leading some to question
the reliability and theconsistency of the reliability.
Travis (19:37):
Yes, I mean that could have been full of research where
he's just looking up how totranslate binary code into eyes
of our eyes.
What does that look like inbinary?
And he types it out.
Josh (19:45):
Yeah, Also, there's discrepancies between initial
reports and later publicstatements have led skeptics to
believe that the story may havebeen exaggerated or altered over
time.
So I mean, hearing these kindof stories, skeptics to believe
that the story may have beenexaggerated or altered over time
.
Travis (19:57):
So I mean hearing these kind of stories again and I've
said this on previous episodes.
I convinced that somethinghappened.
But our brain is so wired tolike make sense of things that
we see that don't make sense andthe easiest form, at least
recently, is like to say likeit's otherworldly phenomena or a
(20:19):
ghost or attributed tosomething, and that comes from
like fear, probably initially,is you get scared when you see
something you don't recognize oryou can't understand, and in a
group setting that fear isamplified In some cases.
Absolutely yeah, oh yeah.
Josh (20:34):
I agree.
I think that there are thingsthat happened that night that
were unexplainable to the peoplethere.
I don't know.
Travis (20:40):
There's definitely seems as though there is some kind of
cover, especially halt andburrows, and the other
servicemen reported what theysaw, and then that information
(21:02):
just kind of and I'm not sayingit's like the game of telephone
which we talked about on the umaerial school episode, but it is
very similar to that where youstart to think you're
remembering something in acertain way and then it just
builds and builds, and builds,and builds, and builds, and
builds, and builds to tell abigger, more fascinating or
interesting story.
And so, as information isreleased, as time passes, the
(21:25):
binary code specifically of thisincident as it comes out weeks
or months or years later, itlooks like a cover-up, because
that information maybe wasn'tgiven to those in charge and
they're releasing it orremembering or misremembering
these events years ago.
Josh (21:43):
It's like when you forget something from your past and all
of a sudden you remember.
You're like oh my gosh, I havebeen there, I have done that.
So I mean it is possible that Imean especially in high-stress
situations, that it could takethe brain a long, long time to
process some of this.
Travis (21:57):
Yeah, it's why, like cops, if something is to happen
to you, you're supposed to writedown everything exactly as you
witnessed it in that moment,because the more time passes,
the more you're going to addyour little, your own little
narrative to it.
Josh (22:11):
Yeah, and the more questions asked, yeah.
So there is also just a hugelack of conclusive evidence with
this.
The plaster, that doesn't meananything.
No, I could go plaster any holeand anywhere and it would mean
the same thing, yeah, a plastercast.
Travis (22:29):
I mean you can go out and dig a hole and make a
plaster cast of it and say like,look, I found a tripod where an
alien landed.
Yeah, you just say that, andthey did.
And they're like, oh yeah, well, if only you had a plaster cast
of that.
And you're like, guess what I?
Josh (22:45):
do?
I have one, guys, and I have anaudio recording of me making
the plaster cast.
Travis (22:51):
An audio recording describing what happened.
Yeah, it's very good, youshould listen to it.
Josh (22:59):
I think I'm going to call it a podcast.
So some skeptics suggest thatthe incident could be partially
explained by psychologicalfactors, such as the power of
suggestion and group hysteria.
Yep, the men involved may havebeen influencing each other and
their perceptions, leading toshared belief that they saw
something extraordinary.
The documentary, the video thatwe watched yeah, they mentioned
(23:20):
that all the guys there heardscreams at night with the lights
and everything, and then thatis just the sound of the local
deer.
Travis (23:26):
Which is wild.
It sounds like a scream.
It's like, ah, Like, look upRendlesham deer and tell me that
that is a normal noise that adeer makes.
I mean it is, we watched ithappen.
But it's just, it's weirdseeing a human sounding scream
come out of a deer's mouth.
Josh (23:42):
So there was also tension of the Cold War at the time.
In this era, the presence ofnuclear weapons in the nearby
base could have heightenedanxiety for these guys, because
these were all young guys, early20s.
Yeah, they're all keyed up,yeah, and making the witnesses
more likely to interpret unusualphenomenon as something
sinister or unworldly.
That's possibility.
(24:03):
So what do you think?
What is your conclusive?
Travis (24:08):
I mean, we saw in that little video that we saw on the,
the y files.
I can't remember who the hostof that is, but but the guy with
the fish.
If you guys are looking to getsome further information and
looking into what we've lookedinto yeah, it's Y files.
Josh (24:22):
It's the Rendlesham UFO encounter and the alien message
from the future.
So that's one thing we didn'ttalk about is that some of these
guys were saying that this isfrom the future, these are,
these are not aliens fromanother planet, that these are
future humans trying to give usmessages.
Sure, the rendlesham forestincident still remains an enigma
(24:42):
, so there is plausibleexplanations that exist for many
aspects of the event, butthere's also a lot of
inconsistencies and lack ofevidence, as well as lack of
investigation that leave a lotof room for speculation and
debate.
The events continue tofascinate and fuel debate about
the possibilities ofextraterrestrials, but I think
you and I are both on the samepage, that you know something
(25:05):
happened.
I mean, it could possibly justbe the perfect alignment of
weird things and like aheightened sense of anxiety yeah
, and fear.
Yeah, it could have been thatand it was just perfectly laid
out for that to happen.
I'm not going to discount it,even if it wasn't real.
It seems as though some ofthese people had a real
(25:26):
experience, you know, and thatI'm not going to discount that
because I mean, it was alife-altering experience and
that, yeah, that is important toto note.
I would categorize this as amaybe you know what, josh?
Travis (25:40):
I would put it as a maybe also.
Really, that is a little bit ofmy impression from that video
we watched lingering into thisum, I, I am a sucker for like
visual documentation of, uh,these incidents.
I obviously will fall for itevery time.
That's because I'm a dumb baby.
Josh (26:01):
You're a baby.
Travis (26:02):
So yeah, I'll put it in the maybe file baby.
Josh (26:05):
Maybe baby.
Yeah, I'm right there with you,you know, I think maybe
something happened Aliens maybe,but I think that human nature
kind of took over on the processover the years of this and it
made it messy.
Yeah, as they do, Yep.
So yeah, if you guys want tocontact us, we'll have a link in
(26:25):
the show notes to send fan mail.
If you have any questions orfeedback, we would love to hear
that.
Yeah, Let us know your deepestno no, I don't want to know
those.
And then, like we do with everyepisode, we're going to do a
baseline quiz after yousubscribe.
Travis (26:44):
We will only do baseline quizzes now if you subscribe.
It's kind of like that old MadMagazine cover where they had a
gun to a dog's head and they'relike buy this episode or the dog
dies.
We're only going to releasethese.
Josh (26:56):
And we're going to sit here in silence and wait dies.
We're only going to releasethese and we're going to sit
here in silence and wait.
Travis (26:58):
Yeah, we're all going to release these quizzes as long
as you subscribe.
Josh (27:01):
Yeah, so yeah, we're going to do a baseline quiz, we're
going to give a sneak peek intowhat we're going to talk about
next week, just to see how muchwe know, and so you know that we
really don't know that much,unless we're really lucky with
(27:21):
guesses or someone cheats.
Travis (27:22):
You, uh, did a wink and a nudge.
You were stomping your footover there and trying to get my
attention.
I was looking at my phone cheat, huh.
Yep, josh has left the room.
I just want you guys to know Iwill cheat at every opportunity,
without fail.
If you give me information, Iwill use that just to further my
(27:43):
own ends, but not in any waythat really benefits me.
I only want to use it for thesmall gains, like winning a quiz
at the end of a podcast.
I'm a crazy power hungrymonster.
Josh (27:54):
Oh, josh was back All right, so it looks like our
baseline quiz is about someonenamed Kenneth Arnold.
I have not heard this name,have you?
Travis (28:08):
No no.
Josh (28:10):
So let's do this.
This is what we're going totalk about next week.
Kenneth Arnold, kenneth Arnold.
Okay, so what year did KennethArnold report seeing
unidentified flying objects?
Is it A 1952?
1947, c, 1962 or D 1977.
So what do you think?
(28:30):
I mean?
This picture is kind of helping.
It's a black and white pictureHelp a ton.
Travis (28:35):
It looks like a, a fifties version of what the
future would look like.
Josh (28:42):
So I'm going to say 52.
Travis (28:43):
Okay, yeah, I was going to say we could probably rule
out 62 and 77 just based on thatpicture.
So you're going to say 52.
I'm going to say 52 also.
Josh (28:52):
Okay.
So the next question where didArnold claim to have seen the
unidentified flying objects?
Back?
Seen the unidentified flyingobjects, fuck.
Near Mount Rainier, washington.
Near Roswell, new Mexico.
Near Twin Falls, idaho, hey, ornear Sebeka, minnesota, I'm
(29:12):
going to say Twin Falls, idaho,I'm going to say Mount.
Travis (29:15):
Rainier.
Okay, I'm only saying TwinFalls because you know we're
based in Idaho, hometown heroes.
Josh (29:22):
Where the TV was invented.
Travis (29:24):
Yeah, by Philo T Farnsworth.
Josh (29:27):
Is that true?
Huh, wow, that's cool.
That's neat knowledge.
All right, so the next questionwhat was the estimated speed of
the objects?
Arnold claimed to have seen 440miles per hour.
Holy shit, what.
700 miles per hour.
Holy shit, what.
700 miles per hour, 1,200 milesper hour or 2,000 miles per
(29:48):
hour?
Travis (29:48):
How was he able to determine their speed?
I'm going to say it's probably700.
That would be my guess.
Josh (29:54):
Yeah, I don't know how he was able to determine the speed.
Travis (29:58):
I mean that's a pretty complicated.
Josh (29:58):
I mean maybe he wasn't able to do math.
Like you went from there tothere.
You're two miles away.
Travis (30:02):
You can, you can, you can figure that out, but that's
I can't.
Well, I mean the, the abilityto do that Someone can?
Yeah, possibly Kenneth Arnold,it's harder to do, though, in if
you're seeing something in theair without any like physical
indicators.
Josh (30:17):
Yeah, it yeah.
It's difficult, it can be doneyeah, so I'm going to say 1,200
miles per hour.
Okay.
Travis (30:24):
It's probably like 2,000 .
It was probably, let's say itwas like Something crazy, so
fast yeah.
Josh (30:29):
So next question what UFO shape did Arnold sketch in a
report for the US Air Force?
Is it A a crescent shape, b aspherical shape, c a crescent
shape, b a spherical shape, c ahorseshoe shape or D a pie pan
shape?
I don't know about thehorseshoe, but those are all
pretty good shapes and I know myshapes.
(30:50):
I like a horseshoe shape.
I didn't say I didn't like thehorseshoe shape.
Travis (30:55):
I like the alliteration of a pie pan shape.
A little pee-pee shape.
Yeah, a little pee-pee, that'swhat we say at our house.
Josh (31:09):
Give me of a pie pan shape a little peepee shape, yeah, a
little beepy.
That's what we say at our house.
Give me the peepee pan.
Actually what I guess?
It's peep peep, that'sredundant.
It's the pie pan pan like theatm machine.
Travis (31:14):
Yep, yeah, okay, man, this is a rough one.
I'm going spherical.
Josh (31:15):
I was gonna say that I'm gonna say pie pan good, all
right, I'm gonna say fuck it too.
So next question what term didarnold's reported sightings
bring into popular use?
Is it a foo fighter, b littlegreen men, c extraterrestrial or
d flying saucer?
Travis (31:34):
come on, it's got to be foo fighter I'm gonna say flying
saucer damn but, that wouldmess up my pie pan.
Josh (31:41):
Commit to the bit I am, so I'm gonna say flying saucer,
you're saying foo fighterfighter.
Travis (31:45):
Yeah, consistent with a, I think, an answer we gave on
our first episode of trivia yeah, this might be the guy.
Josh (31:52):
So the last question what us government agency was formed
to investigate reports ofunidentified flying objects, in
part as a result of arnoldsightings?
Was it a, the department ofdefense, b project sign, c, nasa
or d project serpo?
I'm gonna say department ofdefense oh, you are yeah okay
(32:16):
project sign is not an agencyright it was, but I think it was
a little bit earlier.
Project Serpo is not an agency.
Travis (32:21):
They're not agencies, though.
Josh (32:23):
I'm going to do Project Serpo.
I've never heard that.
I've heard Project Sign fromthat same first quiz that we did
the first episode.
Fuck, because there's ProjectBlue Book and that was an agency
.
Are you looking?
Travis (32:45):
I haven't even answered the question yet and you're
looking at the answers okay, I'mgonna do.
Josh (32:47):
I submitted mine because I've already submitted them all
right, I'm gonna do projectserpo.
Travis (32:49):
Guess what I got?
Big fat goose.
Oh, it was project sign.
I got a 100 in reverse are youserious?
Josh (32:53):
yeah, oh, yeah, okay, so first answer when did he see
this?
Yeah, it's 1947, you got that.
Travis (32:59):
You got that right, I got it wrong I know we both did
1952.
Oh, I thought you said 47.
No.
Josh (33:03):
Okay, so it was seen near Mount.
Travis (33:07):
Rainier, mount Rainier, yep, twin Falls Wrong.
Josh (33:10):
Yeah, oh, I got the miles per hour correct too, 1200.
Travis (33:13):
I got it wrong 700.
Josh (33:22):
1200 miles.
What he claimed to have seen,yep, ufo, shape, uh, did he
sketch in his report?
It was a crescent shape.
That was what I was thinkinglike.
Oh, but it was flying saucers.
What's the difference between acrescent and a horseshoe?
Then I think crescent is likethat, like they're not talking
like a crescent moon, this is anaudio form.
Travis (33:34):
So what did you just do with your hands?
I flipped travis off.
Yep, that's uh, not a crescentshape.
Josh (33:39):
Joshua's being crass no, it's, uh, just the normal image
that you see of an alien ship,just like the crescent top, like
a half dome not like a moon,like no, not like a moon, that's
a crescent moon that looks likea half circle, which is what a
horseshoe is right maybe it's alittle wider it doesn't look
like the pod racers in star warsokay, I know what a crescent is
(34:02):
.
Travis (34:02):
Guys.
Okay, I know what a horseshoeis.
Josh (34:04):
I'm not an idiot and that's why I said pie pan,
because I was thinking two piepans together, but it looks like
it's more saucer pans together,which is where they get the
flying saucer.
Travis (34:13):
I would imagine what term did arnold's reported
sighting bring into popular useflying saucer everyone knows
that.
Josh (34:22):
What'd you say, foo?
Travis (34:22):
fighter dummy.
Josh (34:25):
I said to a mirror yeah, I got one, two, three we don't
need.
Travis (34:31):
We're not keeping score.
We don't need who cares?
Who cares how many you got I?
Josh (34:35):
seem like you cared last time I uh when you got 100 right
, and you didn't cheat last timeeither, which is phenomenal.
I didn't cheat this time either.
You didn't no yeah alright.
Well, I'm excited to hear aboutthis guy and the guy who helped
(34:55):
coin the term flying saucer.
That'd be fun.
We get a little history lessontoo, so cool.
Well, thank you for listeningand keep a lookout for this
Kenneth Arnold episode.
Term flying saucer, that'd befun.
We get a little history lessontoo, so cool.
Well, thank you for listeningand keep a lookout for this
Kenneth Arnold episode when itcomes out.
Okay, bye, bye.
aliens yes but maybe no.
Well, welcome back to the showaliens, aliens.
Josh (00:23):
Yes.
Travis (00:25):
But maybe no, I'm Travis and I'm Josh.
This is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title.
So Josh.
Josh (00:35):
I missed you.
Not you, Travis, I was talkingto the listeners the audience,
oh yeah.
Travis (00:42):
Well, I missed you.
I missed you every second thatyou were gone.
Josh (00:45):
Josh, thank you so the last episode, we did a test
about this episode, about thistopic yeah, and we decided on
rendless ham.
Travis (00:56):
That was one of the pronunciations.
That was my pronunciation.
It's rendlesham forest,rendless, am I saying it right?
And I think I remember youdidn't get any questions,
correct, my pronunciation it'sRendlesham Forest, rendlesham,
am I saying it right?
And I think I remember youdidn't get any questions correct
?
Josh (01:10):
No, I think I got 100%.
I can probably change that inediting.
Travis (01:15):
If you're just dropping in to this episode, I got 100%
on every quiz.
Josh (01:20):
Wow, how convenient.
Don't go back and listen, yeah,don't go back.
Travis (01:23):
Just trust, yeah, don't go back, just trust, yeah, just
believe me.
Josh (01:27):
So yeah, today we're going to talk about the Rendlesham
Forest Incident.
Travis (01:31):
So where are we at geographically Like, where is
this place?
Josh (01:34):
This is in Suffolk, england, and it's a US Air Force
station.
Basically, it's a base.
Travis (01:42):
Yeah, it's a US Air Force that is stationed at a
Royal Air Force, which is theBritish version.
Sounds cooler, yeah, raf.
Raf yeah Sounds pretty cool,stationed at the RAF Woodbridge
Base.
Josh (01:56):
Yeah, and that base is right outside the Rendlesham
Forest, and this incidenthappened the day after Christmas
, december 26th, boxing day thatyou might say.
Is that?
Mm-hmm?
It's the day after.
That's fun, yeah, whereeveryone just goes around
punching each other, uh-huh.
Travis (02:12):
Yeah, fighting, yeah.
So this is 1980.
You weren't even a twinkle inyour dad's eye or your mother's
eye.
I was just a little over a yearold, really, huh.
Josh (02:22):
I was just a little over a year old, really, huh yeah, I
was born in 87.
Travis (02:25):
79.
Ooh, redact that.
Bleep that out, josh.
I don't want anybody to knowany personal information about
me.
Since we started this podcast,I've been getting really
paranoid.
Josh (02:34):
I'll censor the century.
Travis (02:37):
Okay, so they don't know , I'll just say 79.
Josh (02:41):
I think you just said something 2079?
You 2079.
Travis (02:43):
I think you just said 2079.
You could be from the future.
We'll get more into that, maybelater in this podcast.
Josh (02:47):
I think so.
So yeah, some personnel at thisAir Force base saw mysterious
lights hovering above the forest.
Sergeant Jim Penniston.
Travis (02:57):
Some might pronounce it Penistown Some.
Josh (03:00):
Me.
So every time you hear thatname, auto-correct in your head
yeah, so, jim, I can't even sayhis name now jim penniston and
airman john burroughs.
They went out into the woods toinvestigate what was going on.
The men encountered atriangular metallic craft with
pulsating white light, about sixto nine feet wide and resting
(03:23):
on the forest floor.
So they just walk in the forestand there's this ship.
Yeah, that's kind of a smallship, six to nine feet.
Travis (03:31):
Yeah, it's like the size of a really tall car.
Josh (03:35):
This is six to nine feet wide.
Travis (03:37):
That's still like.
My car is probably nine feetand you drive a Fiat.
Josh (03:42):
Yeah, a little tiny.
Travis (03:45):
I'm giving away a lot of personal information.
I drive a Fiat.
You guys have never heard of it.
Josh (03:52):
So I mean it's the size of a sedan, sure, basically.
So, seeing that there weresymbols that looked like
hieroglyphs on the craft,penniston touched them and was
blinded by light.
When his vision returned, thecraft lifted intoiston touched
them and was blinded by light.
When his vision returned, thecraft lifted into the air, and
he quickly wrote down as much ashe could remember in his
notebook.
After examining the area andthe indentations left in the
ground from the landed craft,the two officers made their way
(04:15):
back to the base.
So what about the other officer?
What was he doing?
Well, this guy had passed out.
Did he also pass out?
I'm not, do you know?
I don't.
I think one made it seem asthough it was just seconds that
passed and one it seemed asminutes had passed.
So there was time lost for sure.
Classic, yeah.
(04:36):
And to their surprise, whenthey were heading back, they
were met with a search partybecause they'd been out looking
for them, because they were gonelonger than they realized.
I think they were gone forabout 45 minutes instead of just
a couple minutes.
So at 4 am the police werecalled to the location, but they
determined the lights were fromthe Bobbies.
They're called Bobbies LightsPolice.
(04:58):
No, yeah.
Travis (05:00):
They're called Bobbies.
They're called Bobbies in theUK.
That's fun, everyone else hasfun words.
They're very cute.
Josh (05:05):
Yeah, but they determined the lights were from the Orford
Nest Lighthouse, so that's anoption.
It could have been that.
Travis (05:13):
Is Rendlesham near a body of water?
Josh (05:17):
I don't know.
I saw some images.
It looked a couple miles out,okay, but light travels quick.
Travis (05:22):
You might say I mean, it's not.
I've seen faster, but it is upthere.
As far as speed's concerned,I'm just right below Cheetah.
Josh (05:31):
Right below Cheetah close to light.
Travis (05:33):
Yeah, very good, Then light yep.
Josh (05:36):
On the night of December 28th 1980, two days after the
initial sighting, the strangelights reappeared.
Sighting the strange lightsreappeared.
This time, lieutenant colonelcharles halt, the deputy base
commander, led a team equippedwith a tape recorder and various
instruments into the forest todocument the activity.
Travis (05:52):
It's so funny that he was like we need to go into the
forest, we're going to documentthis, what do I need?
And he's just looking aroundand he decides on tape recorder
yeah, I mean it is the 80s.
Josh (06:03):
Yeah, I mean the tape recorders were a big thing.
Yeah, I imagine it was theclassic one where it's like flat
and the thing pops up yeah, andyou have to it has a handle on
it and you can get around with Iimagine that's what it was, and
they probably had a microphoneattachment, sure?
so his tapes captures his voiceas he observes radiation
(06:23):
readings coming from theindentations in the ground and
discolored trees around the site.
At one point he witnessed asmall red light appear between
the trees and describes beams oflight coming down from a
glowing object in the sky.
He's lucky, okay, yeah what doyou mean?
Travis (06:39):
I don't know.
Josh (06:39):
I was lucky like he went out to investigate something and
then something happened.
He, he got it.
Yeah, despite the surrealexperience, holt and his team
felt pressure to downplay theevent.
Upon returning to the base,holt wrote a memo summarizing
the events, which he sent to theBritish Ministry of Defense.
It briefly described thesightings and physical evidence,
but offered little in the wayof explanations.
Travis (07:02):
Just reporting facts.
Josh (07:04):
Yeah, but it sounds like he was downplaying it.
This is like eh, this happenedwhatever, I don't care, yeah.
So while the Ministry ofDefense did take note of the
report, the official stance wasthat the incident posed no
threat to security and the casewas effectively closed.
However, many of those involvedbelieved there was more to the
story.
Penniston later claimed that ashe touched the craft, he
(07:27):
received a telepathic messageflooding his mind with streams
of binary code.
Upon returning to the base,penniston couldn't shake the
persistent memory of the binarycode.
Over the following days, hefelt compelled to record the
sequences in his notebook.
It wasn't until 30 years laterthat he shared the pages filled
with the mysterious code withresearchers.
When decoded, the binarymessage revealed coordinates for
(07:50):
locations around the world,including ancient, significant
sites like the Pyramids of Egyptor the Nazca Lines in Peru.
Travis (07:57):
The modern binary number system.
The basis for binary code, wasinvented by Gottfried Leibniz in
1689.
Hmm, Anyway, I thought binarywas much newer.
Josh (08:08):
So did I Like?
What was that guy smoking?
Future smoke, oh, mm-hmm, allright.
So John Burroughs also laterexperienced health issues
stemming from exposure to theradiation.
However, when he requested hismedical records, the military
denied access to them becausethey had been classified, and
they remain classified to thisday.
(08:28):
I would be so pissed if I wentto get medical records because
my life, my health, was fallingapart and they wouldn't give it
to me, especially if you hadlike a persistent health thing
and you needed access to yourmedical records.
Yeah, and that's what he wastrying to.
I mean, he was going throughhealth issues because of
radiation and they were tryingto figure out what exactly it
(08:49):
was.
And they ended up figuring itout without that, but it took a
lot longer, without his records,without his records.
And then, once they figured outwhat it was, they released some
of the records, but they didn'trelease all of them, just
enough to tempt you.
Yep.
So in 1981 there was a haltmemo where colonel charles halt
basically detailed the deputybase commander to the uk
(09:10):
ministry of defense.
Travis (09:11):
Yeah, he detailed the events, including the radiation
Halt.
Deputy Base Commander to the UKMinistry of Defense.
Josh (09:14):
Yeah, he detailed the events, including the radiation
readings and the sightings ofthe glowing objects.
Then there was the Halt tapes,the audio recording by Halt
during his investigation.
Travis (09:23):
So these are all sources that are backing up this claim.
Right that something happened,Right.
Josh (09:29):
Okay, and then there was witness statements in 1997.
Okay, so 17 years after the,there was witness statements in
1997.
Travis (09:34):
Okay, so 17 years after the fact, these statements were
taken.
Josh (09:38):
Yeah.
Travis (09:38):
That seems a little weird.
Josh (09:40):
It does.
And some of them were sayingthat they attribute the lights
to the farmhouse or the OrfordNest Lighthouse yeah, which we
talked about earlier.
But I mean, why do they carethat many years later?
Travis (09:52):
Witnesses who don't believe.
It depends on who's conductingthis investigation.
It might be somebody that islooking to prove that there was
a paranormal incident here.
Josh (10:02):
I guess that's true, Because it sounded like it was
just dropped by the military.
English and US, yeah.
Then there was the Haltaffidavit.
Halt reaffirms his belief in2010 that the extraterrestrial
nature of the event was real,and he alleges a UK-US cover-up
which is cool, you do love acover-up.
(10:24):
I do love a cover-up and I likeit when countries work together.
Yeah, big fan of cooperation.
Yeah, in 2005, there was alocal police log.
The police were called to thescene and they also attributed
lights to the lighthouse and theground impressions that were
left by the spaceship.
They contributed that toanimals.
Travis (10:44):
What took so long for them to get access to this
police log.
This is now 25 years after thishad happened.
Josh (10:52):
I have no idea.
It's weird.
Yeah, it's really weird.
In 2001, the Ministry ofDefense file a largely internal
correspondence and publicresponses indicating a lack of
in-depth investigation.
Travis (11:06):
Okay, so this Ministry of Defense file might explain
why, in 2005, 2010, we saw aresurgence in this incident,
because they opened it up againsaying like why wasn't this
investigated more?
There's not enough information,we need more.
So they went back and looked.
Josh (11:22):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So the Daniel Davis analysis ITconsultants analyzed Sergeant
Penniston's binary code,revealing possible geographic
coordinates and intriguingpatterns.
Travis (11:35):
Yeah, because he said that it was hieroglyphics or
whatever, which is.
Josh (11:38):
I mean that makes you think of like ancient aliens and
For sure the people who usedhieroglyphs learned it from the
aliens, like it's actually analien language which I don't
know.
I'm a little skeptical aboutthis story just because the
sergeant and the colonel, theirstories, have changed multiple
times and drastically throughoutthe years but we're seeing that
(12:00):
a lot, with a lot of thesefirst-hand experiences, like
years later they've they'vechanged their story.
Travis (12:07):
So far, I mean through the course of, like, the little
bit of research we've done forthis podcast, a little time
we've been recording.
That has been anecdotally thecase.
What are some of the others?
Well, most notably, travisWalton.
His brother-in-law had redactedhis testimony of Travis getting
abducted and then, years later,when Travis was going to adapt
(12:28):
his story again, oh, he came outsaying that it was.
He came out saying that it wasfalse.
He came out saying that it wasfalse and then they settled it
outside of whatever, like itwasn't a court case necessarily,
that I remember.
But he's like, okay, yeah, fine, I, whatever, I, I will redact
my redaction of saying that this, this had happened.
I will delete my Facebook post.
Yeah, I'll delete my Facebookpost.
(12:50):
Exactly, nothing's ever reallydeleted, is it?
No, not anymore.
Josh (12:54):
So here are some arguments for people who believe.
Okay, there was multipleeyewitnesses.
So several US Air Forcepersonnel, including Lieutenant
Colonel Charles Holt, sergeantJim Penniston and Airman John
Burroughs, reported witnessingthe event.
The consistency in theirdescription of strange lights
and craft and physical evidenceadds a credibility to their
(13:16):
accounts.
And they're also high-rankingofficers.
Sure, also halt audio recordingmade during the second night of
sightings captures hisobservations and reactions in
real time, adding to theauthenticity of their claims.
Okay, so that's, that's goodevidence.
Travis (13:33):
Audio recordings, though it's kind of hard, I don't know
.
I have a hard time believingjust an audio recording.
I want to see it with my own.
Josh (13:41):
I mean, yeah, you could say like in an audio recording
and be like what's that?
Oh my gosh, is this alienspaceship?
Travis (13:47):
yeah, you could just be narrating something that you're
maybe not even seeing yeah, andthey're just hanging around
smoking cigars.
Josh (13:52):
Yeah, they could just be doing an audio drama.
Exactly.
I want to know what these guys'childhood looked like.
What if they were just?
They all wanted to be actors,podcasters.
They wanted to be podcasters,which makes sense.
This was the first podcast.
Travis (14:06):
This could have been well.
The first podcast was probablylike any of the radio dramas
that we heard, those wereessentially podcasts.
Josh (14:13):
Yeah, so there's also physical evidence.
Believers often point to thephysical traces left at the site
, such as the triangularindentations in the ground where
the craft allegedly landed.
Travis (14:24):
Yeah, that's deer with their triangle hooves.
Josh (14:27):
And then scorch marks on the nearby trees and readings of
elevated radiation levels.
Travis (14:31):
The video we watched, it wasn't scorch marks that were
documented, it was, they said.
It looked like something hadrubbed against like a twisting.
Josh (14:39):
Yeah, I'm just saying this is just what evidence that
people believe I'm not.
I mean the radiation levelsthat are there were normal
background radiation.
It wasn't anything out of theordinary.
Travis (14:50):
And then some accounts were like they were loggers or
people that were marking treesto be cut.
Josh (14:55):
Right.
Another physical evidence thatbelievers point out is the
photographs and plaster casts ofthe indentations, and they were
actually taken by the Air Forcepersonnel providing visual
documentation on the site.
But, like you said, if it'sjust deer, yeah, I mean deer
with their triangle hooves.
Travis (15:14):
yeah, why?
Josh (15:15):
are you looking at me?
Travis (15:16):
I don't know, because I keep saying triangle hooves,
thinking that joke is gonna land, and you just you're like they
do have triangle hooves.
You move right on.
Not like a triangle likethey're describing.
It's not like an actualtriangle.
It has, like you know what?
I'm spending too much time ondeer hooves.
You, you got me, josh.
I know I tried to get you andyou got me back.
Josh (15:36):
Yeah, I know a hoof.
There's also telepathic binarycode.
That happened.
While it's highly controversial, some believers see its
complexity in reference asevidence of contact with
intelligence beyond ourunderstanding.
Travis (15:51):
So what did this binary code reveal?
Josh (15:57):
They said that to a mathematician who was able to
decipher it right, or thatallegedly yeah, there was like a
small little, not poem, butbasically it's like we're doing
planetary observations,something about eyes of our eyes
eyes of our eyes, moon of mymoon.
No, that Moon of my moon.
Travis (16:13):
No, that was Game of Thrones, but it also included
coordinates for locations aroundthe world, like Pyramids of
Egypt, a place in Peru, one ofthe temples in Greece, oh yeah.
Josh (16:27):
So my first thought when I heard that he had binary code,
I believed what I heard that hewrote this down right after the
event.
Travis (16:36):
No, he didn't write it down right after the event we
talked about that.
Josh (16:39):
It was days later, but still in the 80s, my first
thought was like okay, there'sno internet, there's probably no
way he knew binary.
How else would he get thesecoordinates if he didn't have
the internet and then put itinto binary?
I mean it's all pretty crazy,but it not being revealed until
2010 is a little more sus yeah,total sus Susery at its finest.
(16:59):
Also, that it's in English, sothe code translates into English
as well.
As it is a newer form of binary.
Instead of being seven bit, itwas an eight bit binary, yep.
So all of these make it alittle more hard to believe, but
I was really excited when Ifirst heard it.
Travis (17:19):
Well, you know, all aliens have an English class in
their high school.
They have to take, it'srequired for them to graduate.
Josh (17:25):
I would imagine that they have some form of education.
Travis (17:28):
When they say English is the universal language, they
mean the universe, the languageof the universe, see, this is
why you're here yeah, you pointout the obvious.
If you point out the obvious,you're always right uh, there's
also government involvement insecrecy.
Josh (17:42):
So classic government.
Yeah, this is where I getexcited.
Okay, the incident wasdocumented in a memo sent to the
british ministry of defense,suggesting that authorities took
the report seriously, at leastinitially.
The memo is often cited asevidence that the government had
knowledge and a little bit ofinterest in the event.
Yeah, some believers argue thatthe government's dismissal of
(18:05):
the event is indicative of acover-up, pointing to alleged
efforts to suppress theincident's true nature, which I
think we've seen multiple timesbefore.
Travis (18:15):
Yeah, like it's that classic.
There's nothing to see here.
Folks keep moving, like whenyou see an accident happening or
a bunch of police officersgathered together and then you
have all the looky-loos.
The police will say, like moveon, move on.
Josh (18:29):
Nothing to see here, that's right.
So those are some of the fewarguments for the believers.
There's also a lot of argumentsfor the skeptics, so one of the
things.
Travis (18:40):
Oh boy, here, this is my jam.
Josh (18:43):
So there's possible misinterpretations of natural
phenomena.
Some of the things that happenmay have not truly been what
happened.
One of the things that theytalked about was the lighthouse
which we talked was a couplemiles away.
The light that these people sawwas happening in five second
intervals and the lighthouse wasset at a five second interval
(19:04):
so the light would shine everyfive seconds.
So that kind of seems like itdebunks it right there, like I
saw light every five seconds,like oh well, that lighthouse
shines the light every fiveseconds yeah like, oh the
argument for skeptics about thechanging testimonies and the
inconsistencies over the years.
what happened at night varied,particularly regarding the
(19:25):
details of what Penniston andBurroughs saw and experienced.
For example, Penniston's claimof receiving telepathic message
wasn't revealed until many yearslater, leading some to question
the reliability and theconsistency of the reliability.
Travis (19:37):
Yes, I mean that could have been full of research where
he's just looking up how totranslate binary code into eyes
of our eyes.
What does that look like inbinary?
And he types it out.
Josh (19:45):
Yeah, Also, there's discrepancies between initial
reports and later publicstatements have led skeptics to
believe that the story may havebeen exaggerated or altered over
time.
So I mean, hearing these kindof stories, skeptics to believe
that the story may have beenexaggerated or altered over time
.
Travis (19:57):
So I mean hearing these kind of stories again and I've
said this on previous episodes.
I convinced that somethinghappened.
But our brain is so wired tolike make sense of things that
we see that don't make sense andthe easiest form, at least
recently, is like to say likeit's otherworldly phenomena or a
(20:19):
ghost or attributed tosomething, and that comes from
like fear, probably initially,is you get scared when you see
something you don't recognize oryou can't understand, and in a
group setting that fear isamplified In some cases.
Absolutely yeah, oh yeah.
Josh (20:34):
I agree.
I think that there are thingsthat happened that night that
were unexplainable to the peoplethere.
I don't know.
Travis (20:40):
There's definitely seems as though there is some kind of
cover, especially halt andburrows, and the other
servicemen reported what theysaw, and then that information
(21:02):
just kind of and I'm not sayingit's like the game of telephone
which we talked about on the umaerial school episode, but it is
very similar to that where youstart to think you're
remembering something in acertain way and then it just
builds and builds, and builds,and builds, and builds, and
builds, and builds to tell abigger, more fascinating or
interesting story.
And so, as information isreleased, as time passes, the
(21:25):
binary code specifically of thisincident as it comes out weeks
or months or years later, itlooks like a cover-up, because
that information maybe wasn'tgiven to those in charge and
they're releasing it orremembering or misremembering
these events years ago.
Josh (21:43):
It's like when you forget something from your past and all
of a sudden you remember.
You're like oh my gosh, I havebeen there, I have done that.
So I mean it is possible that Imean especially in high-stress
situations, that it could takethe brain a long, long time to
process some of this.
Travis (21:57):
Yeah, it's why, like cops, if something is to happen
to you, you're supposed to writedown everything exactly as you
witnessed it in that moment,because the more time passes,
the more you're going to addyour little, your own little
narrative to it.
Josh (22:11):
Yeah, and the more questions asked, yeah.
So there is also just a hugelack of conclusive evidence with
this.
The plaster, that doesn't meananything.
No, I could go plaster any holeand anywhere and it would mean
the same thing, yeah, a plastercast.
Travis (22:29):
I mean you can go out and dig a hole and make a
plaster cast of it and say like,look, I found a tripod where an
alien landed.
Yeah, you just say that, andthey did.
And they're like, oh yeah, well, if only you had a plaster cast
of that.
And you're like, guess what I?
Josh (22:45):
do?
I have one, guys, and I have anaudio recording of me making
the plaster cast.
Travis (22:51):
An audio recording describing what happened.
Yeah, it's very good, youshould listen to it.
Josh (22:59):
I think I'm going to call it a podcast.
So some skeptics suggest thatthe incident could be partially
explained by psychologicalfactors, such as the power of
suggestion and group hysteria.
Yep, the men involved may havebeen influencing each other and
their perceptions, leading toshared belief that they saw
something extraordinary.
The documentary, the video thatwe watched yeah, they mentioned
(23:20):
that all the guys there heardscreams at night with the lights
and everything, and then thatis just the sound of the local
deer.
Travis (23:26):
Which is wild.
It sounds like a scream.
It's like, ah, Like, look upRendlesham deer and tell me that
that is a normal noise that adeer makes.
I mean it is, we watched ithappen.
But it's just, it's weirdseeing a human sounding scream
come out of a deer's mouth.
Josh (23:42):
So there was also tension of the Cold War at the time.
In this era, the presence ofnuclear weapons in the nearby
base could have heightenedanxiety for these guys, because
these were all young guys, early20s.
Yeah, they're all keyed up,yeah, and making the witnesses
more likely to interpret unusualphenomenon as something
sinister or unworldly.
That's possibility.
(24:03):
So what do you think?
What is your conclusive?
Travis (24:08):
I mean, we saw in that little video that we saw on the,
the y files.
I can't remember who the hostof that is, but but the guy with
the fish.
If you guys are looking to getsome further information and
looking into what we've lookedinto yeah, it's Y files.
Josh (24:22):
It's the Rendlesham UFO encounter and the alien message
from the future.
So that's one thing we didn'ttalk about is that some of these
guys were saying that this isfrom the future, these are,
these are not aliens fromanother planet, that these are
future humans trying to give usmessages.
Sure, the rendlesham forestincident still remains an enigma
(24:42):
, so there is plausibleexplanations that exist for many
aspects of the event, butthere's also a lot of
inconsistencies and lack ofevidence, as well as lack of
investigation that leave a lotof room for speculation and
debate.
The events continue tofascinate and fuel debate about
the possibilities ofextraterrestrials, but I think
you and I are both on the samepage, that you know something
(25:05):
happened.
I mean, it could possibly justbe the perfect alignment of
weird things and like aheightened sense of anxiety yeah
, and fear.
Yeah, it could have been thatand it was just perfectly laid
out for that to happen.
I'm not going to discount it,even if it wasn't real.
It seems as though some ofthese people had a real
(25:26):
experience, you know, and thatI'm not going to discount that
because I mean, it was alife-altering experience and
that, yeah, that is important toto note.
I would categorize this as amaybe you know what, josh?
Travis (25:40):
I would put it as a maybe also.
Really, that is a little bit ofmy impression from that video
we watched lingering into thisum, I, I am a sucker for like
visual documentation of, uh,these incidents.
I obviously will fall for itevery time.
That's because I'm a dumb baby.
Josh (26:01):
You're a baby.
Travis (26:02):
So yeah, I'll put it in the maybe file baby.
Josh (26:05):
Maybe baby.
Yeah, I'm right there with you,you know, I think maybe
something happened Aliens maybe,but I think that human nature
kind of took over on the processover the years of this and it
made it messy.
Yeah, as they do, Yep.
So yeah, if you guys want tocontact us, we'll have a link in
(26:25):
the show notes to send fan mail.
If you have any questions orfeedback, we would love to hear
that.
Yeah, Let us know your deepestno no, I don't want to know
those.
And then, like we do with everyepisode, we're going to do a
baseline quiz after yousubscribe.
Travis (26:44):
We will only do baseline quizzes now if you subscribe.
It's kind of like that old MadMagazine cover where they had a
gun to a dog's head and they'relike buy this episode or the dog
dies.
We're only going to releasethese.
Josh (26:56):
And we're going to sit here in silence and wait dies.
We're only going to releasethese and we're going to sit
here in silence and wait.
Travis (26:58):
Yeah, we're all going to release these quizzes as long
as you subscribe.
Josh (27:01):
Yeah, so yeah, we're going to do a baseline quiz, we're
going to give a sneak peek intowhat we're going to talk about
next week, just to see how muchwe know, and so you know that we
really don't know that much,unless we're really lucky with
(27:21):
guesses or someone cheats.
Travis (27:22):
You, uh, did a wink and a nudge.
You were stomping your footover there and trying to get my
attention.
I was looking at my phone cheat, huh.
Yep, josh has left the room.
I just want you guys to know Iwill cheat at every opportunity,
without fail.
If you give me information, Iwill use that just to further my
(27:43):
own ends, but not in any waythat really benefits me.
I only want to use it for thesmall gains, like winning a quiz
at the end of a podcast.
I'm a crazy power hungrymonster.
Josh (27:54):
Oh, josh was back All right, so it looks like our
baseline quiz is about someonenamed Kenneth Arnold.
I have not heard this name,have you?
Travis (28:08):
No no.
Josh (28:10):
So let's do this.
This is what we're going totalk about next week.
Kenneth Arnold, kenneth Arnold.
Okay, so what year did KennethArnold report seeing
unidentified flying objects?
Is it A 1952?
1947, c, 1962 or D 1977.
So what do you think?
(28:30):
I mean?
This picture is kind of helping.
It's a black and white pictureHelp a ton.
Travis (28:35):
It looks like a, a fifties version of what the
future would look like.
Josh (28:42):
So I'm going to say 52.
Travis (28:43):
Okay, yeah, I was going to say we could probably rule
out 62 and 77 just based on thatpicture.
So you're going to say 52.
I'm going to say 52 also.
Josh (28:52):
Okay.
So the next question where didArnold claim to have seen the
unidentified flying objects?
Back?
Seen the unidentified flyingobjects, fuck.
Near Mount Rainier, washington.
Near Roswell, new Mexico.
Near Twin Falls, idaho, hey, ornear Sebeka, minnesota, I'm
(29:12):
going to say Twin Falls, idaho,I'm going to say Mount.
Travis (29:15):
Rainier.
Okay, I'm only saying TwinFalls because you know we're
based in Idaho, hometown heroes.
Josh (29:22):
Where the TV was invented.
Travis (29:24):
Yeah, by Philo T Farnsworth.
Josh (29:27):
Is that true?
Huh, wow, that's cool.
That's neat knowledge.
All right, so the next questionwhat was the estimated speed of
the objects?
Arnold claimed to have seen 440miles per hour.
Holy shit, what.
700 miles per hour.
Holy shit, what.
700 miles per hour, 1,200 milesper hour or 2,000 miles per
(29:48):
hour?
Travis (29:48):
How was he able to determine their speed?
I'm going to say it's probably700.
That would be my guess.
Josh (29:54):
Yeah, I don't know how he was able to determine the speed.
Travis (29:58):
I mean that's a pretty complicated.
Josh (29:58):
I mean maybe he wasn't able to do math.
Like you went from there tothere.
You're two miles away.
Travis (30:02):
You can, you can, you can figure that out, but that's
I can't.
Well, I mean the, the abilityto do that Someone can?
Yeah, possibly Kenneth Arnold,it's harder to do, though, in if
you're seeing something in theair without any like physical
indicators.
Josh (30:17):
Yeah, it yeah.
It's difficult, it can be doneyeah, so I'm going to say 1,200
miles per hour.
Okay.
Travis (30:24):
It's probably like 2,000 .
It was probably, let's say itwas like Something crazy, so
fast yeah.
Josh (30:29):
So next question what UFO shape did Arnold sketch in a
report for the US Air Force?
Is it A a crescent shape, b aspherical shape, c a crescent
shape, b a spherical shape, c ahorseshoe shape or D a pie pan
shape?
I don't know about thehorseshoe, but those are all
pretty good shapes and I know myshapes.
(30:50):
I like a horseshoe shape.
I didn't say I didn't like thehorseshoe shape.
Travis (30:55):
I like the alliteration of a pie pan shape.
A little pee-pee shape.
Yeah, a little pee-pee, that'swhat we say at our house.
Josh (31:09):
Give me of a pie pan shape a little peepee shape, yeah, a
little beepy.
That's what we say at our house.
Give me the peepee pan.
Actually what I guess?
It's peep peep, that'sredundant.
It's the pie pan pan like theatm machine.
Travis (31:14):
Yep, yeah, okay, man, this is a rough one.
I'm going spherical.
Josh (31:15):
I was gonna say that I'm gonna say pie pan good, all
right, I'm gonna say fuck it too.
So next question what term didarnold's reported sightings
bring into popular use?
Is it a foo fighter, b littlegreen men, c extraterrestrial or
d flying saucer?
Travis (31:34):
come on, it's got to be foo fighter I'm gonna say flying
saucer damn but, that wouldmess up my pie pan.
Josh (31:41):
Commit to the bit I am, so I'm gonna say flying saucer,
you're saying foo fighterfighter.
Travis (31:45):
Yeah, consistent with a, I think, an answer we gave on
our first episode of trivia yeah, this might be the guy.
Josh (31:52):
So the last question what us government agency was formed
to investigate reports ofunidentified flying objects, in
part as a result of arnoldsightings?
Was it a, the department ofdefense, b project sign, c, nasa
or d project serpo?
I'm gonna say department ofdefense oh, you are yeah okay
(32:16):
project sign is not an agencyright it was, but I think it was
a little bit earlier.
Project Serpo is not an agency.
Travis (32:21):
They're not agencies, though.
Josh (32:23):
I'm going to do Project Serpo.
I've never heard that.
I've heard Project Sign fromthat same first quiz that we did
the first episode.
Fuck, because there's ProjectBlue Book and that was an agency
.
Are you looking?
Travis (32:45):
I haven't even answered the question yet and you're
looking at the answers okay, I'mgonna do.
Josh (32:47):
I submitted mine because I've already submitted them all
right, I'm gonna do projectserpo.
Travis (32:49):
Guess what I got?
Big fat goose.
Oh, it was project sign.
I got a 100 in reverse are youserious?
Josh (32:53):
yeah, oh, yeah, okay, so first answer when did he see
this?
Yeah, it's 1947, you got that.
Travis (32:59):
You got that right, I got it wrong I know we both did
1952.
Oh, I thought you said 47.
No.
Josh (33:03):
Okay, so it was seen near Mount.
Travis (33:07):
Rainier, mount Rainier, yep, twin Falls Wrong.
Josh (33:10):
Yeah, oh, I got the miles per hour correct too, 1200.
Travis (33:13):
I got it wrong 700.
Josh (33:22):
1200 miles.
What he claimed to have seen,yep, ufo, shape, uh, did he
sketch in his report?
It was a crescent shape.
That was what I was thinkinglike.
Oh, but it was flying saucers.
What's the difference between acrescent and a horseshoe?
Then I think crescent is likethat, like they're not talking
like a crescent moon, this is anaudio form.
Travis (33:34):
So what did you just do with your hands?
I flipped travis off.
Yep, that's uh, not a crescentshape.
Josh (33:39):
Joshua's being crass no, it's, uh, just the normal image
that you see of an alien ship,just like the crescent top, like
a half dome not like a moon,like no, not like a moon, that's
a crescent moon that looks likea half circle, which is what a
horseshoe is right maybe it's alittle wider it doesn't look
like the pod racers in star warsokay, I know what a crescent is
(34:02):
.
Travis (34:02):
Guys.
Okay, I know what a horseshoeis.
Josh (34:04):
I'm not an idiot and that's why I said pie pan,
because I was thinking two piepans together, but it looks like
it's more saucer pans together,which is where they get the
flying saucer.
Travis (34:13):
I would imagine what term did arnold's reported
sighting bring into popular useflying saucer everyone knows
that.
Josh (34:22):
What'd you say, foo?
Travis (34:22):
fighter dummy.
Josh (34:25):
I said to a mirror yeah, I got one, two, three we don't
need.
Travis (34:31):
We're not keeping score.
We don't need who cares?
Who cares how many you got I?
Josh (34:35):
seem like you cared last time I uh when you got 100 right
, and you didn't cheat last timeeither, which is phenomenal.
I didn't cheat this time either.
You didn't no yeah alright.
Well, I'm excited to hear aboutthis guy and the guy who helped
(34:55):
coin the term flying saucer.
That'd be fun.
We get a little history lessontoo, so cool.
Well, thank you for listeningand keep a lookout for this
Kenneth Arnold episode.
Term flying saucer, that'd befun.
We get a little history lessontoo, so cool.
Well, thank you for listeningand keep a lookout for this
Kenneth Arnold episode when itcomes out.
Okay, bye, bye.
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