February 14, 2025 • 46 mins
Hold onto your tinfoil hats, folks, because in this episode, we're tackling the Ariel School Incident, where a playground in Zimbabwe turned into a close encounter of the third kind (allegedly).
We're talking spaceships, aliens, and a whole bunch of kids who swore they saw it all. But were they telling the truth, or were they just a bunch of imaginative youngsters who got a little carried away?
Get ready for a journey into the unknown as we explore this captivating and controversial event. You might even start believing in aliens yourself (or at least question your own sanity).
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh (00:03):
Aliens Aliens, yes.
Travis (00:09):
But maybe no.
Hey guys, welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no.
I'm Travis and I'm Josh.
This is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title.
(00:31):
All right, so, josh, what arewe talking about today?
What's the theme of the showToday?
We're going to be talking aboutthe aerial school incident.
Josh (00:41):
Right when we took the baseline quiz last episode, at
the end you thought that it wasa school of ufos like a school
of fish and they had seen ahuman.
Travis (00:53):
Yes, totally reversed an aerial school.
We watched the documentaryepisode encounters there's a
series on netflix calledencounters which covers a lot of
this otherworldly phenomena.
Right, I've watched a coupleepisodes on your recommendation,
but we watched the specific one, episode two called Believers.
Josh (01:13):
Yes.
Travis (01:13):
It was very well done.
I do have some thoughts on thesubject matter, as it were, but
we can dig into that a littlebit after we get a little bit of
an overview.
Josh (01:22):
Well, I didn't know that the school, school's name was
ariel.
Travis (01:26):
Yeah, ariel, how convenient, right I thought it
was something to do with thebecause yeah, they saw it in the
sky.
They saw in the sky it's adifferent spelling, so ariel in
the sky is a-r-i-a-l and this isa-r-i-e-l and Zimbabwe.
Josh (01:44):
I'm really excited to get your take on this.
Travis (01:46):
Okay.
Well, let's build thatanticipation up a little bit.
Let's give some context.
You know which?
I believe you have queued upand ready.
I'm going to zone out, I'mgoing to disassociate for a
little bit and stare at my phoneGet your ducks in order.
I don't have any ducks, and ifthey did, they most definitely
would be in order.
(02:06):
Yeah, so that's why I don'thave ducks.
It just seems like a hassle.
Josh (02:10):
All right, so I'm going to give you a quick overview of
some context some context ofthis story the aerial school
incident or the aerial schoolphenomenon.
So on a Sunday morning inSeptember 1994, at the aerial
school in the small rural townof Rua, zimbabwe, the ordinary
routine of a school day wasabout to be shattered by an
(02:32):
extraordinary event that wouldleave an indelible mark on the
lives of over 60 children.
Travis (02:38):
You're doing great.
Josh (02:38):
Thank you.
It was recess time and thechildren ranging in age from 6
to 12 were outside playing onthe expansive school grounds.
Nothing seemed out of theordinary until some of the
children noticed somethingunusual in the horizon.
Hovering just beyond theboundary of the schoolyard, a
metallic object, unlike anythingthe children had ever seen,
began to descend.
(02:59):
It was a saucer-shaped craft,sleek and shining in the bright
sunlight.
Saucer-shaped craft, sleek andshining in the bright sunlight.
The object landed silently in aclearing and the children saw
beings emerge with large heads,black hair and enormous black
eyes that seemed to gaze rightthrough you.
These beings moved with astrange fluidity, almost as if
they were floating rather thanwalking.
They wore tight-fitting blacksuits that shimmered slightly in
(03:21):
the light.
Panic set among some of thechildren, but some stood rooted
to the spot, unable to look away.
According to many of thewitnesses, the beings
communicated with them, not withwords, but telepathically.
The message they conveyed wasnot one of harm but rather of
warning.
The children described a senseof urgency, with the beings
conveying images ofenvironmental destruction and
(03:42):
the future plagued by disaster.
It was as if they were tryingto tell the children something
important about the fate ofEarth and humanity.
The encounters lasted only afew minutes, but for the
children it felt much longer.
As quickly as the beings hadappeared, they re-entered their
craft, which then lifted off theground silently, disappearing
into the sky with a speed thatdefied comprehension.
(04:03):
Shaken and bewildered, thechildren ran back into the
school where they breathlesslyrecounted their experiences to
the teachers and the staff.
Of course, the teachers didn'tbelieve the tale, thinking it
was just an imaginative storyconjured by the children.
Word of the incident spreadquickly, drawing the attention
of news outlets and eventuallyUFO researchers, including
renowned Harvard psychiatrist DrJohn Mack, who interviewed the
(04:25):
children separately.
The consistency and detail tothe children's accounts were
hard to ignore.
They described the same beingsin the same eerie telepathic
communication.
Dr Mack then asked the childrento draw the craft that was in
the schoolyard.
He found that many of thedrawings had uncanny
resemblances of a craft withlights around it and red light
above it.
Some of the students also drewthe large-eyed, dark-skinned
(04:48):
being in its black suit withlong hair.
The aerial school UFO incidentremains one of the most
compelling and controversialcases of close encounters with
purported extraterrestrialbeings.
Despite this skepticism and theattempts to dismiss the events
as mass hysteria or a collectiveprank.
The sincerity and theconsistency of the children's
stories have left many convincedthat something extraordinary
(05:10):
happened that day in rua okay,so now we have context yeah so
that's basically an accountingof what happened, right?
yeah, that is the story.
If if someone were to ask whatwas this aerial school incident
about?
Like that was it okay and nowwe're gonna talk about it okay,
(05:31):
because I think we both haveopinions uh, yes, I do
definitely have opinions aboutit.
Travis (05:37):
Do you want me to start, or do you want to just like uh?
Josh (05:39):
I want you to start.
I'm okay, I'm very curious tosee what you have to think.
Okay, first off.
Actually, I feel like I alreadyknow what you have to think.
Travis (05:44):
Okay, first off.
Josh (05:45):
Actually, I feel like I already know what you think.
Travis (05:47):
Yeah, well, we talked about it a little bit.
Josh (05:49):
You love eyewitnesses and you believe children to a fault.
Travis (05:52):
They are great encounters of what actually
happened.
Yeah, so this documentarystarts the way a lot of
documentaries do with like somescene setting and establishing
like the very basics, but italso starts with this cool
silhouette of a guy smoking acigarette.
Josh (06:06):
I knew you were going to bring him up.
Travis (06:08):
Yeah, man Dallin, that's my boy, Dallin, the ultimate
prankster.
Very cool guy.
I'm sure that he was a verycool kid.
I don't know if this is like agood jumping off point for my
opinions of this show, but I'malready going into this, so I'm
going to double down on it, thisshow, but I'm already going
into this, so I'm going todouble down on it.
(06:28):
I think Alan did tell these kidsthat he saw something and I
think they believed it, becausechildren are very susceptible to
impression and they see thisguy.
I bet he was a very popularperson, Doesn't look like a very
put-together person now, butthose guys were always hitting
their peak at that age and theywere very persuasive.
And so I believe he did say hesaw something as a lie and had
(06:49):
convinced enough people tobelieve that and then, because
kids ultimately want to beaccepted, they all started to
believe it and some believed init wholeheartedly that it became
their personality.
This was a school that had 62kids in it but for some reason
only four of them decided tospeak out in this documentary
and some used it as a way toexplore their own spirituality
(07:13):
right and discover who they wereas an African, and some people
just kind of really made thattheir personality, the sighting.
Josh (07:22):
Or hid it, and their personality became what it was
because they were hiding it.
Travis (07:28):
Well, that was what Dr John Mack had said is that the
people that had reported thesethings had felt shameful, Like
they spoke out and then theyfelt like they were attacked.
But I mean, who's going toattack a kid?
That's a pretty cruel thing.
Josh (07:40):
I mean I would if they looked at me wrong.
Travis (07:42):
I know they're so easy to beat.
Yeah, I would if they looked atme wrong.
I know they're so easy to beat.
Yeah, I could easily take a kidEasy.
I could do it with one armbehind my back.
Josh (07:50):
There's some strong kids out there.
Travis (07:50):
I could do it with a series of headbutts.
I could do it with both armsbehind my back, jeez, and two
legs for kicking.
Josh (07:55):
You do have a big head.
Travis (07:56):
I do.
It's monstrous.
I go to bed, my head fallsreally fast.
Once that momentum gets going,it's night, night time for me,
okay.
So alan the super cool guysmoking cigarettes and there was
another person that was smokingcigarettes.
I thought that her exchange waspretty funny she's smoking in
the school headmistress who theyhave is that the one that lived
(08:17):
there?
Josh (08:18):
uh, yeah, that's the one that lived there which is really
weird, that she not really, Idon't know if I had a teacher
that lived at the school thatwas I mean it's it was not
really for like rural, ruralareas that is.
Travis (08:29):
Yeah, it's room and board.
That was like the entirearistocracy in england.
You would have a live-in tutor,a person that would raise your
kids.
They wouldn't have to go to aschool.
Josh (08:40):
You'd have a person who lived in your house, had a
separate quarters do you thinkit was her house before it was a
school, or vice versa?
Travis (08:46):
I think no, I think that she got hired and she needed a
place to stay and applied forthis job because it gave her a
place to stay.
And I don't know if Zimbabwewas a British Commonwealth or
not, so a lot of those likeBritish tendencies carried over
into a lot of African culture.
Josh (09:02):
Well then I was wrong.
Travis (09:03):
It's not weird, I carried over into a lot of
african culture.
Well then, I was wrong.
It's not weird.
I've changed my mind, maybe,but for the time you know, it's
a completely different countryand their, their cultures, are
different.
I just that's how I feel.
I didn't think that it wasweird.
I felt like it was a verynormal thing for a school
teacher to live there.
I don't think she was squattingand living in like a custodial
closet or whatever, with themops just waiting for everyone
to leave mop, and then you're myonly friend.
Josh (09:25):
Well, I'm gonna finish cleaning up and then just falls
asleep somewhere yep, uh, youguys are gone right sleeps at
her desk I mean, she probablydid that.
Travis (09:33):
Her name is judy bates, by far one of my favorite
characters in this was judybates, and then my boy dowan he
was my least of course he was,because he's the prankster.
You don't like pranksters.
Judy did say that she did havean experience where she woke up.
It was between the time wherethe kids saw or had this
encounter and before John Mackshowed up.
(09:55):
Yeah, and she said she neverspoke about it until this
documentary.
Josh (09:59):
Yeah, she didn't want to.
Travis (10:01):
I don't understand why Like if she sees these kids that
are taking a risk, why didn'tshe do the same thing?
That's why I'm really skeptical, because all of these accounts
are based on eyewitnesstestimony and a lot of it has to
do with feelings, and feelingsare subjective to the time that
it's happening.
If you have a feeling, you'regoing to associate that that's
going to get tied into yourmemory and then sometimes I
(10:21):
don't know if you've ever told astory about you know one drunk
evening that you've had thattends to build as you tell that
story, because you may get kindof tired telling that story and
you want to amp it up.
And I feel like that was thecase with these kids is that
they had maybe believed in thestory, but they wanted to
believe this was the case.
Josh (10:40):
But we have video footage of them telling the story as a
kid and the same story,non-amped up, is them telling it
, but that's no, it was.
Travis (10:48):
It was totally amped up like she talked about, uh, how
the aliens had gotten into hermind and said they wanted to
save the earth and before it wasjust like, well, it was my
conscience or whatever that hadgotten in her head I mean, it is
a child, they don't know butthat's also.
That's a memory.
I mean it doesn't have to beamped up if that is your memory
and you have that documented.
You're not going to want todiscredit yourself in that way
(11:11):
so one thing, this psychiatrist,john mack.
Josh (11:14):
John mack, he had the kids explain and draw, okay, what
they saw.
Right, they did not draw thesame thing over and over again.
It wasn't identical, it wastheir own perception, their own
views, which actually made itmore compelling because, like
these 60 kids, if they alltalked and said this is what
it's going to be, they would alldraw an identical thing.
(11:36):
Yeah, they did not draw anidentical thing for an
eyewitness account.
Like, if you have one or twoeyewitness accounts, you can't
take someone to court for aneyewitness account.
Well, like, if you have one ortwo eyewitness accounts.
Travis (11:46):
You can't take someone to court for an eyewitness
account.
Well, no, that was talked aboutin this documentary and that's
the thing is that eyewitnessaccounts are used in a court of
law and have been used astestimony to sentence people to
death.
But there's a group of lawyersthat are trying to rectify that
with like DNA evidence and theyare getting people freed because
there was an eyewitness accountthat said this person had done
(12:09):
this crime.
And now they are.
They're free because they'vebeen acquitted of these charges
because that eyewitness accountwas false and the DNA didn't
match up with that eyewitnessaccount.
Those that only happens withthe DNA evidence.
Yeah, kim.
Josh (12:21):
Kardashian is part of that .
Oh, you're invoking Kim.
What happens with the DNAevidence?
Travis (12:23):
Yeah, kim Kardashian is part of that, uh-oh, you're
invoking Kim, uh-oh it isdropped Kim Kardashian.
Josh (12:31):
She went to school to be a lawyer on top of all the other
things.
I respect her a lot, sure, yeah, she's my queen.
Get it, get it, girl.
She is in groups or she is in agroup, I don't remember what
it's called, but it's basicallythe reformation of prisons, and
she has gotten a lot of peopleout that have been wrongly
accused.
(12:51):
Yep, so I gotcha.
Oh, I said eyewitnesses weren'tvalid and you're like, actually
, no, they are.
Travis (13:00):
No, I didn't say they are.
I'm saying that they are.
I don't think they're valid,but I'm saying they are used in
a court of law to prosecute andsentence people to death.
And then it is countered by thewhatever the DNA that they're
they're finding and using inthese, in these cases, to
vindicate these people that havebeen wrongly accused because of
an eyewitness testimony.
Josh (13:21):
Yeah, but this is 60 eyewitnesses Also, it's 60
children, 60 children which arestill eyewitnesses.
If 60 children were molested bya priest and they came forward.
Okay, but that's not the samething, but the thing is.
Travis (13:35):
We're not talking about physical contact.
We are talking about kids thatclaim they saw this thing and
they're drawing differentinterpretations.
Now, for a moment, let'sacknowledge the fact that
spaceships have been in popculture for, at this point, at
least 40 years since the 50s, ifnot earlier, if you're into
comics and HG Wells and thingslike that.
(13:55):
So there are interpretationsand things like that.
So there are interpretationsand iterations of what these
kids are drawing.
It's in popular culture.
It is permeated in everybody'sconsciousness from everywhere.
If you've seen a sci-fi movie,you know exactly what an alien
ship is supposed to look likeand that is what was drawn was a
version of that, but one kiddescribed this alien as having
(14:17):
hair like michael jackson.
Yeah, I think that lines upwith maybe that testimony that
there was a gardener out in theyard and maybe the light had
caught.
It was like maybe the sun wassetting or the light was just
hitting the right, this gardener, the right way, that they
thought it was an alien or anextraterrestrial, or if we had
otherworldly or whatever yourboys lie.
Josh (14:41):
False his, his prank.
False if it was a gardener,because he said it was a rock
well, he said it was a rock,right, but now, other people are
saying it's a gardener no,that's what the head, the
headmistress, judy bates, hadsaid.
Travis (14:53):
She was like well, there was a gardener out there and
maybe that's what they wereconfusing it as.
But the guy yeah, my boy Dallinwas like yeah, I saw a shiny
black rock out there, and that'swhat.
That's what I said.
It was a.
He said it was a spaceship.
He didn't say he saw that therewas a person out there.
That was all I think in aneffort to validate what
everybody had seen.
They had exaggerated what theyhad seen.
Josh (15:14):
I mean, they even mentioned one of the guys is
like I know what a rock is.
Travis (15:18):
When you're okay.
So let's go back to us talkingabout party time.
Anytime you want to tellsomething to somebody in an
engaging way, you're going toexaggerate it.
I'm not saying that it's rightor it's good, but you want to
exaggerate it for the outrageouscontent purposes, right.
You want to make your audiencefeel like, oh my God, what?
No purposes, right.
(15:38):
You want to make your audiencefeel like, oh my God, what?
No way.
And I feel like saying that itwas an alien or like a spaceship
.
Was that first level?
But then the people that theywere trusting to believe them,
their teachers and theheadmaster I don't remember what
the headmaster's name was.
Josh (15:51):
Kind of creepy, though he was kind of creepy.
Travis (15:53):
It did put off like some kind of weird vibes.
Yeah, the way to convince themis they're like well, not only
that, but we also saw an alienand it looked at me with their
eyes their big dark eyes.
It reminded me of Ralphie in theSimpsons when he caught Mrs
Kerboppel and somebody else inthe closet and saw them making a
(16:15):
baby and the baby looked at him.
Oh my gosh, I get it that thesekids all felt like they had
this shared experience.
But I also I know, having kidsof my own kind of the outrageous
stories that get told andthings that they don't maybe
understand or maybe miss see,and they don't have the language
to interpret what that is orunderstand.
(16:36):
I mean their experience is verylimited and sheltered.
You know they're children.
We want to protect them so theydon't see.
You know all the things that wesee as adults.
Josh (16:43):
Yeah, we were staying at my parents' house a couple
months back and my 12-year-oldheard some clicking and she
couldn't sleep.
She had to get into the bedwith mom and she thought it was
a ghost.
Yeah, it was the refrigerator.
Travis (16:58):
And that's totally.
That's totally fine.
I want to validate what thesepeople experienced, but and that
is what John Mack was doing.
They feel well.
John Mack Okay, so John Mack,to give a little bit of history,
he was a psychiatrist thatdealt with child psychology or
psychiatry.
He was primarily dealing withchildren, so that made him more
adept at talking to these kidsand ultimately he was brought
(17:19):
into this by a friend of his Ithink his last name was H-U-H-N,
something like that was broughtinto this because of these
phenomena that were happeningand he was just curious and was
like, if people are having theseexperiences, I want to know
what it is that's causing them.
Josh (17:35):
It was strictly out of curiosity At first.
He didn't believe what washappening.
Travis (17:39):
I don't.
I still don't think there'snothing that after watching this
episode and I haven't done theamount of research that you or
All I've done is watch theepisode.
Your wonderful wife have done,but at the end I don't feel like
he believed it.
He just wanted to drawattention to the fact that these
people had been having theseexperiences and we needed to
listen to them and not assumethat they were crazy.
Josh (18:03):
Yeah, we're not going to drug them.
Travis (18:04):
That was the ultimate, yeah, he never said aliens were
real.
Josh (18:06):
Well, he never said anything like that.
Travis (18:08):
The difference between psychology and psychiatry, a
psychologist listen, they'relike when you see that image of
somebody laying on their couchand talking about their feelings
.
They're talking to apsychologist.
Josh (18:16):
Yeah.
Travis (18:16):
A psychiatrist is a doctor that can prescribe you
drugs.
Yes, harvard thought that hewas committing malpractice
because he wasn't medicatingthese people.
Because Harvard felt like theywere Crazy.
Well, yeah, to use the curazyword, the C word, yeah, they
thought that they were mentallyunstable.
Josh (18:35):
Oprah used it, so I can.
She was in the documentaryOprah's on word.
Yeah, they thought that they're, they were mentally unstable.
Oprah used it, so I can.
Travis (18:37):
She was in the documentary oprah's on man, so
you gotta trust oprah yeah.
Josh (18:42):
So some of the credentials that john mack had was he was a
tenure at harvard,single-handedly built the first
outpatient psychiatric ward.
Okay, let's, let's say theunited states.
Travis (18:52):
Let's take it easy with the single-handedly, because
nothing's done single-handedlyhe did it.
Let's say he did it with onehand okay, I'm sure he had a
team of people.
I I feel like you're going offbook.
I don't.
I don't understand what.
What's happening here, but uh,yeah, I'm sure he had a team of
people to build.
Josh (19:08):
Whatever it was that he was there to build I was
actually using a direct quotefrom the, the documentary oh,
dang, okay.
Travis (19:14):
well, that's a, that's an artistic for us, okay.
Josh (19:16):
Yeah, I take things very literal and I want everyone to
know that he did it with onehand.
Okay, so this guy is nothing toscoff at, he's an accomplished.
Travis (19:26):
He's very accomplished.
I mean anybody that graduatesfrom Harvard in any aspect,
through any course of study.
I agree should be taken veryseriously.
Josh (19:35):
And I believe he was in the right at all times hashtag
believe john mack, huh, yep allright, mack was right.
Yeah, mack and me that's analien movie.
Travis (19:47):
Well done, thank you.
Is that why?
Yep?
Is that why mack is called mack?
Because john mack?
Yep, holy shit, holy shit, holyshit.
Maybe you are going to get meon this train.
Josh (19:57):
Oh yeah, I know I will.
It's all connected.
I'll get you Alright, get youreal good.
Travis (20:02):
That didn't sound threatening at all.
That was like a come on.
Josh (20:04):
Yeah, that didn't go well, did it?
It went fine, it went good,okay.
So I don't think he was in thewrong at all.
I think that he wait a second.
I'm not.
We're not assigning blame here.
What is, what do you?
Travis (20:21):
mean, well, the entire top executives or whatever, in
charge of harvard.
It wasn't, it was sure the deanthe, the old crook of the 80s
college party movie, right likewe'll say let's just call him.
We'll call him the dean, right?
Well, the dean yeah was tryingto end.
This is the dean is a team ofpeople.
Josh (20:36):
Yeah, including his colleagues.
Travis (20:38):
Some of his colleagues.
Sure, yeah, they accuse him ofmalpractice because they didn't
like that he was seeming tovalidate these people's
experiences, um, and they justwanted to kind of brush all this
under the rug.
They didn't they, they didn'twant to address it and they
didn't.
They thought it was kind of awaste of his time.
Josh (20:57):
They thought that they should have given these people
tranquilizers because they wereclinically insane, and he did
not agree.
He said that there's somethinghere.
Travis (21:07):
Well, and when we say these people so he interviewed
actually 200, there were 200people under this study where he
talked to them about thisexperience and he said, yes,
they're all experiencing ashared thing.
But at least my impression ofwhat he was saying was that
doesn't necessarily make it true, that just makes it personal to
them.
So they feel like theyexperienced this thing and I
(21:29):
just want to find out why andwhat it is that they were
feeling.
And so that was the wholecourse of his study.
Josh (21:35):
Yeah.
So when his colleagues weresaying like yeah, now he
believes in aliens, I got madbecause that's not what he was
saying.
He wasn't saying that at all.
He's like something happenedand I want to know what it was.
And he never said the alienswere real.
He didn't say anything aboutanything other than just medical
, psychological things.
Travis (21:57):
Yeah, he said they weren't psychologically unstable
and that's why he didn't wantto prescribe tranquilizers to
them.
That they were mentally fit.
Yeah, and so he's, yeah, like.
Josh (22:05):
I said and ashamed.
Travis (22:06):
Yep, that was a universal feeling is they were
ashamed of what it was they'dexperienced.
I don't think it was theexperience that made them feel
ashamed.
I think it was sharing whateverit was that they had seen and
then being laughed at and peoplenot taking them at what they
were worth Like.
Let's take this rock thing, forexample.
This kid Dallin, my boy Dallin,said he saw this rock.
Rather than address that, theytold people they didn't say hey,
(22:31):
no, it was just a rock that youguys saw.
Let's go out there and let'slook at this.
Let's stand where you were.
Let's look out in the field,let's see what it is that you
are looking at.
Let's go out and investigatethis.
Seemingly nobody was willing todo that.
They just said no, you'refucking crazy, you stupid kid.
Go back to playing jump rope orwhatever.
And so that's what I felt likeJohn Mack was trying to do, but
(22:53):
he was years too late.
Well, this happened in what?
94, right?
Yeah, so I think this is 94, 95when he was asked by his friend
to go and investigate this.
Josh (23:03):
And he was the last of the people to show up.
Travis (23:06):
He was the last of the people to show up and actually
made these kids feel heard.
But when you're a kid and youwant to tell a story and impress
an adult, you're going toexaggerate some things and some
things are going to become verypersonal and you're going to
internalize that.
Josh (23:20):
But something traumatic happened.
You think it was allimagination.
Travis (23:24):
I don't think it was traumatic.
I don't think it was traumaticfor anybody.
I think that what they had done, I think the trauma came from
the aftermath of relaying thestory.
I don't think that the eventitself was traumatic.
Josh (23:34):
What's your boy's name?
Again, dallin.
What if think that the eventitself was traumatic.
What's your boy's name again,dalin?
What if it was traumatic forhim and he?
Travis (23:43):
blacked it.
He's a cool.
He's a cool ass guy who'swearing like a cool cigarette
and smoked a couple cigarettes,like in silhouette leaning
against a fence post one timemade him look real cool, cool
guy man, cool guy on campus.
Josh (23:51):
But what if it was traumatic so traumatic that he
forgot it?
Travis (23:55):
okay, but you're introducing a what if?
To a thing that he said he madeup.
I get what you're saying, butwe are we're talking about the
things that are reported on.
We can't speculate on.
Josh (24:05):
You want to know my speculation on him.
Travis (24:07):
On an outside story.
Josh (24:08):
Yeah, what was his name?
Again, darren Dallin Dallin.
Travis (24:11):
D-A-L-L-Y-N.
I cool name, yeah, coolspelling.
You got a beer like yours.
You're kind of a cool guy,thank you.
Yeah, he looked like you.
No, like, uh, yeah, better,worse I don't.
Josh (24:25):
I mean he was a good looking guy.
I don't want to.
I don't want to discount hislooks.
We're both like half cock rightnow just talking about no he's a
good looking chap, but herehere's what I thought, and it is
strictly hypothetical, this isjust my non-professional opinion
.
He wasn't the popular kid inschool.
I think he was friends in thegroup of the popular kids.
(24:46):
I don't think he saw whathappened and I think he felt
left out and I think when allthese kids started talking about
what was happening, theaftermath and the backlash was
traumatic for those kids and Ithink it was just as traumatic
for him because he was not apart of it.
But he was there and I think hehas a lot of regret for not
(25:07):
being in that.
Okay, I think he wanted to beaccepted because he was one of
the most passionate people aboutthis in this whole documentary
and he was saying like no, theseguys are liars, like I mean.
Travis (25:19):
He was very I didn't think he was passionate.
I mean not as passionate as andI didn't write this person's
name down, but she was wearinglike a print dress, she had
blonde hair.
She was the most passionate.
I think Dallin was apologeticand I feel like he felt sorry
about what he claimed to havedone by calling it a lie.
(25:39):
Me calling him a cool guy isjust like my personal feeling
and I'm projecting on himbecause he's just seemed like a
cool guy.
I feel like you know maybe hewasn't a cool guy in school, but
I do know how susceptible kidsare to somebody who is claiming
to have seen something and theyall want to believe and feel a
part of that.
Josh (25:58):
Yeah, imagine if 60 of your classmates saw something
and you didn't, and you werecalling them liars.
Those 60 kids are going to gangup.
Travis (26:08):
We're saying there were 62 kids, but we're not.
Josh (26:11):
I think he lost friends, just as they lost friends, sure,
yeah, yeah.
I feel sorry for him and,honestly, other than the one
woman that wouldn't seek acounselor because of her issues,
because she was afraid yeah, Ithink that he was the runner up
for being the most mentallyunhealthy.
I think that, and the personthat lived at the I think she
(26:33):
was totally fine.
Travis (26:34):
I think that she You're okay with her encounter of being
abducted no.
Have we talked about herabduction?
Briefly, yeah, she got abducted.
Well, she claims to have beenabducted.
Josh (26:43):
This is the headmistress that lived there.
She got abducted.
They came back three times andasked Claimed, claimed.
Yeah, she specifically told thetruth of them coming back.
Travis (26:53):
Her truth.
Josh (26:54):
Universal them coming back , her truth, universal truth of
them coming back.
And then the third time, eachtime they said, hey, do you want
to come with us?
Do you want to come with us?
And she said, no, yeah, I haveto finish things here.
That took a big turn.
That was crazy.
Yeah, I love to believe, butthat was a hard belief for me uh
, yeah, I, I didn't really takeher testimony into account.
(27:15):
You disregarded her.
Travis (27:18):
I did.
Josh (27:18):
But she was your favorite character, Not character person.
I liked she's a real person.
Travis (27:23):
I mean, she's a real person.
I liked how kind of down toearth she was.
Josh (27:27):
Yeah.
Travis (27:28):
And she'd been doing this for a very long time and
she wanted to protect thechildren, and so I think her
saying this was a way to kind oflike diffuse what had happened
to the kids and say like, well,no, this happened to me too, and
then that took a lot ofpressure off the kids.
I think she's a very protectiveperson and maybe fabricated.
Josh (27:49):
To the point where she thought, sure yeah, where she
was wanting to potentiallycommit suicide, josh like humans
are born liars and we love tolie.
Travis (27:59):
It's one of our greatest joys.
I mean we like to exaggerate.
Josh (28:04):
Children aren't as innocent as we think.
Having kids myself, they'repretty conniving and they lie a
lot.
Travis (28:10):
They do they lie, but they're also pleasers they want
to make.
Josh (28:13):
They're not pleasers, they just don't want to get in
trouble.
Travis (28:15):
Some of them, some of them, though, my kids.
They just wanted to make ushappy.
That was it.
Oh, in their own way, and theywent about it, you know, in
crazy ways, but you know allkids do that.
Josh (28:27):
Yeah, I did that when I was a kid.
I went above and beyond to dodifferent things Make a game
night.
When my parents were on a dateand they'd get home at like
midnight, I'd be in a suit,right.
They're like hey, welcome tothe game night.
They're like, oh, you'resupposed to be in bed.
Yeah exactly, I was just likenope, I got all these games
ready for you I've.
Travis (28:47):
I've made tickets.
Here's a ticket.
You get one ticket for eachride.
Uh, you give it to me and thenI'll give it back to you, but
you have to pay me a cookie yeah, I remember that night vividly.
Josh (28:58):
I got it all ready in minutes and I waited for hours
just waiting.
Oh, trauma oh days feel so longwhen you're a kid yeah, yeah,
you just want to grow up yeah,which is weird.
My daughter doesn't want togrow up, she wants to stay a kid
for my kids, which is great.
Travis (29:18):
That means you're doing a good job as a yeah, that's
what I'm thinking that's how Itake it yeah, like great.
Josh (29:23):
I want you to enjoy your childhood, yeah I don't want to
get old nope, and I lie and saygetting old is great.
It's not.
Travis (29:30):
Oh, it's the worst oh geez, by far it's the worst
thing.
Worse than sharks, worse thanbears the sharks aren bad.
No, compared to getting old.
Oh man, sharks pale incomparison.
Okay, so let's get back ontrack.
Yeah, what were we talkingabout?
Travis hates children.
Josh (29:47):
No, I don't.
Now we're getting into tricky.
Travis (29:49):
Travis thinks all children are liars and the human
race is a big lie I do thinkkids lie, but I don't think
that's a fault of being a kid.
I think that that's just anatural, uh, learning part, like
you have to.
Kids are okay.
Let me collect my thoughts.
Kids are sociopaths and theyneed boundaries, and that's how
they figure out how put religionaside, um, I they're not
(30:14):
sociopaths.
Josh (30:14):
Their brain hasn't developed for them to think
outside of themselves.
Travis (30:17):
Well, that's sociopathy.
That is exactly what sociopathyis.
Josh (30:20):
Yeah, but they're not diagnosed sociopathic.
Travis (30:24):
You don't act like within a boundary of
consequences, you just dowhatever you want and fuck it, I
don't care.
Like that's sociopathy, yeah,and that's what kids are.
They're a little sociopaths.
They need boundaries to helpthem define what is, without
getting too moral, but what isright and wrong.
Like hitting somebody in theface is not good because that
(30:45):
hurts that person.
But a sociopath wouldn't careabout the pain you're inflicting
.
They're just acting on what itis they're feeling in that
moment, and kids just need thatlittle bit of guidance.
Yeah, right, right, I agree.
Moment and kids just need thatlittle bit of guidance.
Yeah, right, right, I agree.
So I don't think kids suck.
Josh (31:01):
I just think that lying is part of growing up and it is
part of being a oh yeah, I liednon-stop, a pleaser, and I was
blown away when my parents wouldcatch me yep, my parents used
to gaslight me and say, like youused to tell the truth all the
time, and now you're justnothing but a liar.
Travis (31:17):
All you do is lie, and I'm like.
All I said was I ate twocookies instead of one, please.
Josh (31:24):
I told you we were going to get off track.
You were talking about the endone of the lines.
Travis (31:31):
Yeah, so there's a couple lines of text that
appeared at the end of thisdocumentary.
One of them was 62 kids had allclaimed to have seen this thing
, but we only got to talk tofour of them for this doc and
they only had archival footageof those same four.
I don't know if they hadrecorded all 62 kids anyway
footage of those same four.
I don't know if they hadrecorded all 62 kids anyway.
But the last line was 10 yearsafter this incident, dr john
(31:51):
mack was killed by a drunkdriver and I was like not to be
government cover-up right, it'slike the aliens got him in the
end.
They didn't want to bediscovered so they got him.
Josh (32:03):
It was a government cover-up yeah, yeah.
Travis (32:05):
So, uh, that's that was the parting shot of that
documentary is just thought itwas really funny.
Like you said, uh, it was agovernment conspiracy and they
got it.
Josh (32:16):
No, that is exactly what I thought or the dean of harvard
got him, got really drunk andyep ran into him.
Travis (32:22):
Yep, just following him around all night and then just
stepped on the gas yep could be,or it was your boy dallin.
Josh (32:28):
It was dallin, maybe, probably.
Maybe he's smoking like he hadsecrets yeah, he was.
Travis (32:34):
I mean, he was still.
Where did this incident occur?
I?
Josh (32:36):
don't know.
I do know that naturally Ibelieve what these kids are
saying.
I think that they may haveembellished a little bit here
and there, well, well, well, howthe tables have turned.
But I do believe that they hadan experience and I think that
it was a phenomenon, okay, andas a kid, especially in the 90s,
(33:00):
they weren't able to comprehendwhat was going on, yeah.
So I think they did seesomething.
I think it was potentiallyextraterrestrial.
So I think they did seesomething, I think it was
potentially extraterrestrial.
I don't think the initial thingwas exactly like what they were
drawing and what they weresaying was exactly what happened
, but I do think somethinghappened, yeah, and that is
where I stand on the topic, okay.
Yeah, I mean, there was noattempt of a cover up anywhere.
(33:23):
It was just these 60 kids sawsomething and it was a mass
sighting.
Travis (33:28):
I mean 60 kids were enrolled in the school.
I don't know that there was atleast, and I'm only commenting
on the information that wasgiven to me in this documentary.
Josh (33:37):
Right.
Travis (33:37):
All 60 kids didn't see it, but there were 62 kids that
were enrolled and wereinterviewed for this.
Now it doesn't say that all 60kids share that same experience.
It just said that they were allpresent during this sighting.
That doesn't say that all 60kids share that same experience.
It just said that they were allpresent during this sighting.
That doesn't mean that they sawit.
That just means that they werepresent.
For me, if you've been aroundor have been a kid and you just
weren't self-realized likeAthena as an adult, but if you
(33:59):
were a kid, like your attentionspan is so short and if you're
playing on one part of theplayground, your attention, no
matter how calamitous orattention-grabbing it might be
on the other side of theplayground, you are going to be
so involved in what you're doingyou're not going to catch it.
So for them to say that 62 kidsshared this experience, I think
is very, very skeptical.
Josh (34:20):
They mentioned that there was chaos on the playground and
everyone was screaming andrunning away.
A bunch of kids ran away.
I think that's the normalplayground stuff, though.
Travis (34:29):
That's just kids running around like if you've seen
recess.
It is chaos, it is pure anarchy,it is constant noise it's, it
is, it's constant noise justkids running around and
shrieking and so for somethingto have happened off in the
distance.
And then everybody claims theysaw it.
I just I don't believe it.
I feel like it was, and maybenot just dallen, I'm sure he had
(34:52):
, uh, you know, his little groupof friends or whatever.
They claimed to have seensomething and they spread that
around and people wanted tobelieve that that had happened I
think you're just siding withhim because he smoked cigarettes
and he's cool he's a cool guywith a sweater and a cigarettes
man.
I think John Mack was cool.
John Mack was cool.
I thought.
(35:12):
I'm not saying that he wasn't.
It's not Dallin or John Mack.
Josh (35:17):
I think that documentary could have been twice as long.
I think they should haveinterviewed more people.
I wish I could have seen,because they probably have
videotape of them interviewinghim, of Dallin yeah.
Travis (35:28):
I think they could have cut it in half.
Oh really, yeah, I don't.
Josh (35:31):
I was fascinated the whole time.
Travis (35:32):
I feel like a lot of it was this one person feeling
attacked and talking about herexperience personally, and that
was it that kind of dictated thediscourse of this documentary,
at least as far as the kids wereconcerned.
They cut back to her as a kidgiving her testimony and then
her as an adult talking abouthow, you know, the aliens didn't
(35:53):
want people to be technology.
Josh (35:55):
Well, that's like your problem, man.
Travis (35:57):
That is like my problem, man, and that's me as a skeptic
.
Josh (36:00):
That's I think there was a lot more that happened in the
show.
Travis (36:04):
Well, sure, I mean, and we talked about it, we talked
about all kinds of stuff, but Ithink that's my role on this is
I'm the skeptic, I'm the personthat's going to cry foul that's
fine and believe the governmentJust kidding, I'll get you,
which actually brings us to thenext episode.
Josh (36:20):
Okay, is there trivia?
There is trivia Farts.
You keep talking about wantingthe government or the military
to release footage.
Sure, yeah, so I'm going togive you just that.
Travis (36:31):
Okay, is this the New York Times article that we're
going to talk about?
Because we didn't talk aboutthat.
This was referenced in thisepisode.
They said, yeah, the New YorkTimes covered this phenomena,
and all they did was cover theUAPs the unidentified aerial
phenomena Right, that was what Iread these articles before this
podcast, through a paywall,mind you.
Josh (36:51):
Man, yeah, I'm sorry for your, your trying times.
Travis (37:00):
Well, they are trying times but, yeah, all all those
that that series of articlesthey talked about, like people
identifying things that maybethey didn't really understand.
Josh (37:07):
Well, you have been mentioning that.
You want the proof, you wantthe tape.
Travis (37:10):
Oh boy, here we go, here's.
Is this going to be your gotchamoment?
No, it's just You're setting meup to fail another quiz.
Josh (37:18):
I just don't want to hear that bullshit anymore, so I'm
going to do an episode aboutmilitary tapes.
Okay, love it episode aboutmilitary tapes.
Okay, love it.
Next week we're going to talkabout military UAP and UFO
videos, okay, and we have alittle baseline quiz to see
where we're at, okay, so firstquestion, travis.
Travis (37:40):
Oh boy.
Josh (37:41):
How have the military UAP UFO videos been released to the
public?
Was it hackers leaked thevideos on the web and it was
picked up by news outlets?
Whistleblowers worked withCongress to retrieve the footage
for public disclosure.
An unknown source delivered thefootage by mail on a USB drive?
Or footage was released by thePentagon and leaked from
(38:02):
military personnel?
Travis (38:04):
Well, my paranoid freak sensibility says an unknown
source delivered the footage bymail on a usb drive.
But I kind of have the feelingits footage was released by the
pentagon and leaked frommilitary personnel.
Josh (38:16):
Final answer the usb drive is the most badass sure way
like I imagine, like anunderground yeah, like a parking
garage trench coat, someclandestine meeting happening.
Yeah, in some darkened alleyyeah, so you say footage
released by the pentagon andleaked from military personnel
that is what I think as well.
Oh shit, I don't know theanswer, because these are all
(38:40):
pretty convincing answershackers leaked the videos on the
web and was picked up by newsoutlets.
Sure man, I mean, I couldbelieve that a whistleblower
saying like, hey, this isimportant, you guys need to see
this why?
Travis (38:50):
why I'm gonna throw that one out is because I mean, how
recent is.
Are we claiming these eventshappen?
Josh (38:56):
I believe this was 2017 okay, that's uh reasonable.
Travis (39:00):
If this was like pre-90 or pre-2000s hackers, releasing
on the web is not a feasible wayof getting information out
there.
Yeah, and the whistleblowers.
I mean we've talked aboutwhistleblowers, that keeps
coming up.
Josh (39:13):
Next question what are the names of the three UFO videos
released in 2017?
Is it Click, Clack, Gumball andFlypast?
Travis (39:25):
Kickback, Cymbal and Bycast.
Josh (39:27):
Oh my, god, these rule Tic Tac Gimbal and Go Fast.
Cymbal and bicast.
Oh my god, these rule tic tacgimbal and go fast.
Or paddywhack, thimble and baja, blast what are they, oh my god
, what are the name of thesevideos those rule.
Travis (39:41):
I'm gonna say click, clack gumball and fly pass.
That's your answer.
That that's my answer.
Yeah, okay, I.
You're going to say Tic Tac,gimbal and Go Fast.
Josh (39:51):
Why do you say that?
Travis (39:52):
Because I bet the ship they saw went really fast.
Josh (39:56):
So they're going to go fast.
Yeah, yeah, okay, that is theone I'm going to pick, because I
know.
Travis (40:03):
Okay, perfect, continuing my streak of wrong
answers.
Josh (40:07):
Next question Uh-huh, what decade are the videos from?
So the videos that we'retalking about here with that
were released in 2017.
Okay, were they from the 1960sand 70s, the 1980s, the 1990s or
the 2000s to current day?
Travis (40:25):
I'm going to say 60s and 70s, 2000s to current day.
I'm going to say 60s and 70s Ithink the aliens saw, if they
came here and visited, whichagain I want to stress that I do
believe in aliens.
We are living on a planet andfinding life everywhere, in
places that we did not think itwas even hospitable for life,
(40:45):
like there are incredibly hotwater that's being released from
the center of the earth, yeah,like sulfur hot spots and they
are finding living organismsdown there in the most
inhospitable places.
Yeah, things where thingsshouldn't live, yep, where
things shouldn't live and soextrapolating that into like
where we are in the universe.
I do not think that we are.
(41:07):
I don't feel it's possible forus to be alone.
Josh (41:11):
And so you think the 60s and 70s.
Travis (41:13):
I do think the 60s and 70s.
Josh (41:14):
Yeah, because of that.
Travis (41:18):
No, because I think if these videos do in fact I'm not
saying that they don't exist,but if they are true the
government is so slow atreleasing things that that's
going to be a jumping off pointfor them, as they're going to
start from the earliestdocumented experience, the
earliest documented recordedphenomena, and then move forward
(41:40):
from there.
They're not going to start withI don't me personally, this is
I'm probably wrong, as I've beenproven to be I don't think
they're going to start with themost recent and then work their
way back and say like see, we'vebeen, these have been here all
along.
I think they're going to saylike, okay, look, we're going to
gradually declassify thisinformation.
Josh (41:57):
Yeah, okay, I'm going to say the 90s, 1990s.
All right.
Last question for our baselinewhat is theagon stance on the
footage?
The uaps are real and sightingshave been increasing in recent
years.
The videos are a hoax and themilitary is not seeing uaps at
all.
The uaps are enemy tech thatare releasing to the public as a
(42:21):
counter.
The videos are not from the usmilitary and cannot be
legitimized okay, so I thinkit's.
Travis (42:27):
The ap's are real and sightings have been increasing
in recent years.
I remember hearing about thisthanks to the good work of tom
delong of blink 182.
I remember this happeningduring like covid lockdown.
Some of the comments were likethe government has finally
acknowledged aliens exist andall we can talk about is toilet
paper.
Josh (42:47):
In 2020?
.
Travis (42:48):
What no, well, I imagine that was when we were all
talking about toilet paper.
Yeah, 2020, 2021.
Yeah.
Josh (42:55):
Yeah.
Travis (42:55):
Yep.
So I think the government didrecognize the UAPs are real, but
they didn't say that they werenecessary.
They just said they wereunidentified aerial phenomena.
Okay, kind of like the you knowany testimony.
They are just legitimizing thatpeople have seen these things
and they are willing toinvestigate these sightings.
That's my feeling.
Josh (43:15):
That is my answer as well, for similar reasons.
Okay, so let's see what we got.
Travis (43:22):
So I got the first one right, or you did, we both did
Well we both did so.
I only logged my answers.
Josh (43:29):
I only logged your answers as well.
Travis (43:30):
Oh boy, the first footage was released by the
Pentagon and leaked frommilitary personnel.
Yep Congratulations me.
Okay, so Click, clack, gumballand Fly Pass was mine.
Josh correctly guessed Tic Tac,gimble and Go Fast.
Josh (43:45):
These were all names made up by my wife Jordan.
Travis (43:50):
Yeah, the other three and it's really funny.
Josh (43:51):
It is funny.
Yeah, she is brilliant.
Travis (43:53):
Yeah, and potentially a rapper yeah, yeah, we did hear
some freestyle from her earlier.
Josh (43:58):
Maybe we'll get that, that's true.
Travis (43:59):
Maybe when she decides to be a guest we can get her to
freestyle for us?
Josh (44:02):
yeah, or it'll be a bonus episode of just her rapping.
So what decade are the videosfrom?
You said 1960s and 70s.
That was incorrect.
Yeah, I said 1990s.
That was incorrect.
Yeah, it was 2000s to currentday.
Wild, that is wild.
Travis (44:18):
So you're completely wrong oh, I mean yeah, it's
backward completely wrong lastquestion what is the pentagon
stance?
Josh (44:26):
on the footage, the us are real and sightings have been
increasing in recent years.
That is what we both said andit is correct.
Yeah, so you got two correct.
Travis (44:36):
I know I feel like I am growing.
I'm like the Grinch afterlearning about Christmas as my
heart is growing, at least inthis case, two times.
Josh (44:45):
Yeah, it's more so.
Your opinion is growing growing.
Travis (44:50):
Um, I don't, maybe a little bit.
Yeah, we'll get you, I think.
I mean, this is not likeopinion stuff, this is like
facts that I just don't, I don'thave yeah but uh, I'm learning
how to understand all theseparanoid freaks out there yeah,
and we'll hopefully change thatto you being a paranoid freak.
That's fine man, that's my goal.
Josh (45:12):
I want you to go insane, sure Big tent.
Travis (45:15):
Yeah, this is a big, it's a big tent community.
I'm sure they're very welcomingand cool and chill kind of
people.
Josh (45:21):
When we're done with this podcast, you will be wearing a
tinfoil hat.
Travis (45:24):
Okay, all right, well, challenge accepted.
Yeah, oh, it'll happen.
The only reason, though, I'llbe wearing a tinfoil hat is
because that's where I'm keepingmy warm tater tots.
Josh (45:34):
Okay, that's uh probably something you should keep to
yourself I'm gonna have toactually look into that.
Travis (45:39):
Uh, more on that.
On our next episode, I'm gonnabe testing out a tinfoil hat not
for the reasons you guys thinkyeah, well, thanks for listening
.
Josh (45:47):
If you guys want to contact us, our info is in the
description.
If you want to make fun of usor tell us that we're wrong, or
argue with us, like we mentionedbefore, we don't know much.
Travis (45:59):
Yeah.
Josh (45:59):
We're eager to learn, so if you can teach us something,
sure, we are all for it, andthank you for listening.
We'll catch you next episode.
Bye, bye, bye, bye.
Aliens Aliens, yes.
Travis (00:09):
But maybe no.
Hey guys, welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no.
I'm Travis and I'm Josh.
This is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title.
(00:31):
All right, so, josh, what arewe talking about today?
What's the theme of the showToday?
We're going to be talking aboutthe aerial school incident.
Josh (00:41):
Right when we took the baseline quiz last episode, at
the end you thought that it wasa school of ufos like a school
of fish and they had seen ahuman.
Travis (00:53):
Yes, totally reversed an aerial school.
We watched the documentaryepisode encounters there's a
series on netflix calledencounters which covers a lot of
this otherworldly phenomena.
Right, I've watched a coupleepisodes on your recommendation,
but we watched the specific one, episode two called Believers.
Josh (01:13):
Yes.
Travis (01:13):
It was very well done.
I do have some thoughts on thesubject matter, as it were, but
we can dig into that a littlebit after we get a little bit of
an overview.
Josh (01:22):
Well, I didn't know that the school, school's name was
ariel.
Travis (01:26):
Yeah, ariel, how convenient, right I thought it
was something to do with thebecause yeah, they saw it in the
sky.
They saw in the sky it's adifferent spelling, so ariel in
the sky is a-r-i-a-l and this isa-r-i-e-l and Zimbabwe.
Josh (01:44):
I'm really excited to get your take on this.
Travis (01:46):
Okay.
Well, let's build thatanticipation up a little bit.
Let's give some context.
You know which?
I believe you have queued upand ready.
I'm going to zone out, I'mgoing to disassociate for a
little bit and stare at my phoneGet your ducks in order.
I don't have any ducks, and ifthey did, they most definitely
would be in order.
(02:06):
Yeah, so that's why I don'thave ducks.
It just seems like a hassle.
Josh (02:10):
All right, so I'm going to give you a quick overview of
some context some context ofthis story the aerial school
incident or the aerial schoolphenomenon.
So on a Sunday morning inSeptember 1994, at the aerial
school in the small rural townof Rua, zimbabwe, the ordinary
routine of a school day wasabout to be shattered by an
(02:32):
extraordinary event that wouldleave an indelible mark on the
lives of over 60 children.
Travis (02:38):
You're doing great.
Josh (02:38):
Thank you.
It was recess time and thechildren ranging in age from 6
to 12 were outside playing onthe expansive school grounds.
Nothing seemed out of theordinary until some of the
children noticed somethingunusual in the horizon.
Hovering just beyond theboundary of the schoolyard, a
metallic object, unlike anythingthe children had ever seen,
began to descend.
(02:59):
It was a saucer-shaped craft,sleek and shining in the bright
sunlight.
Saucer-shaped craft, sleek andshining in the bright sunlight.
The object landed silently in aclearing and the children saw
beings emerge with large heads,black hair and enormous black
eyes that seemed to gaze rightthrough you.
These beings moved with astrange fluidity, almost as if
they were floating rather thanwalking.
They wore tight-fitting blacksuits that shimmered slightly in
(03:21):
the light.
Panic set among some of thechildren, but some stood rooted
to the spot, unable to look away.
According to many of thewitnesses, the beings
communicated with them, not withwords, but telepathically.
The message they conveyed wasnot one of harm but rather of
warning.
The children described a senseof urgency, with the beings
conveying images ofenvironmental destruction and
(03:42):
the future plagued by disaster.
It was as if they were tryingto tell the children something
important about the fate ofEarth and humanity.
The encounters lasted only afew minutes, but for the
children it felt much longer.
As quickly as the beings hadappeared, they re-entered their
craft, which then lifted off theground silently, disappearing
into the sky with a speed thatdefied comprehension.
(04:03):
Shaken and bewildered, thechildren ran back into the
school where they breathlesslyrecounted their experiences to
the teachers and the staff.
Of course, the teachers didn'tbelieve the tale, thinking it
was just an imaginative storyconjured by the children.
Word of the incident spreadquickly, drawing the attention
of news outlets and eventuallyUFO researchers, including
renowned Harvard psychiatrist DrJohn Mack, who interviewed the
(04:25):
children separately.
The consistency and detail tothe children's accounts were
hard to ignore.
They described the same beingsin the same eerie telepathic
communication.
Dr Mack then asked the childrento draw the craft that was in
the schoolyard.
He found that many of thedrawings had uncanny
resemblances of a craft withlights around it and red light
above it.
Some of the students also drewthe large-eyed, dark-skinned
(04:48):
being in its black suit withlong hair.
The aerial school UFO incidentremains one of the most
compelling and controversialcases of close encounters with
purported extraterrestrialbeings.
Despite this skepticism and theattempts to dismiss the events
as mass hysteria or a collectiveprank.
The sincerity and theconsistency of the children's
stories have left many convincedthat something extraordinary
(05:10):
happened that day in rua okay,so now we have context yeah so
that's basically an accountingof what happened, right?
yeah, that is the story.
If if someone were to ask whatwas this aerial school incident
about?
Like that was it okay and nowwe're gonna talk about it okay,
(05:31):
because I think we both haveopinions uh, yes, I do
definitely have opinions aboutit.
Travis (05:37):
Do you want me to start, or do you want to just like uh?
Josh (05:39):
I want you to start.
I'm okay, I'm very curious tosee what you have to think.
Okay, first off.
Actually, I feel like I alreadyknow what you have to think.
Travis (05:44):
Okay, first off.
Josh (05:45):
Actually, I feel like I already know what you think.
Travis (05:47):
Yeah, well, we talked about it a little bit.
Josh (05:49):
You love eyewitnesses and you believe children to a fault.
Travis (05:52):
They are great encounters of what actually
happened.
Yeah, so this documentarystarts the way a lot of
documentaries do with like somescene setting and establishing
like the very basics, but italso starts with this cool
silhouette of a guy smoking acigarette.
Josh (06:06):
I knew you were going to bring him up.
Travis (06:08):
Yeah, man Dallin, that's my boy, Dallin, the ultimate
prankster.
Very cool guy.
I'm sure that he was a verycool kid.
I don't know if this is like agood jumping off point for my
opinions of this show, but I'malready going into this, so I'm
going to double down on it, thisshow, but I'm already going
into this, so I'm going todouble down on it.
(06:28):
I think Alan did tell these kidsthat he saw something and I
think they believed it, becausechildren are very susceptible to
impression and they see thisguy.
I bet he was a very popularperson, Doesn't look like a very
put-together person now, butthose guys were always hitting
their peak at that age and theywere very persuasive.
And so I believe he did say hesaw something as a lie and had
(06:49):
convinced enough people tobelieve that and then, because
kids ultimately want to beaccepted, they all started to
believe it and some believed init wholeheartedly that it became
their personality.
This was a school that had 62kids in it but for some reason
only four of them decided tospeak out in this documentary
and some used it as a way toexplore their own spirituality
(07:13):
right and discover who they wereas an African, and some people
just kind of really made thattheir personality, the sighting.
Josh (07:22):
Or hid it, and their personality became what it was
because they were hiding it.
Travis (07:28):
Well, that was what Dr John Mack had said is that the
people that had reported thesethings had felt shameful, Like
they spoke out and then theyfelt like they were attacked.
But I mean, who's going toattack a kid?
That's a pretty cruel thing.
Josh (07:40):
I mean I would if they looked at me wrong.
Travis (07:42):
I know they're so easy to beat.
Yeah, I would if they looked atme wrong.
I know they're so easy to beat.
Yeah, I could easily take a kidEasy.
I could do it with one armbehind my back.
Josh (07:50):
There's some strong kids out there.
Travis (07:50):
I could do it with a series of headbutts.
I could do it with both armsbehind my back, jeez, and two
legs for kicking.
Josh (07:55):
You do have a big head.
Travis (07:56):
I do.
It's monstrous.
I go to bed, my head fallsreally fast.
Once that momentum gets going,it's night, night time for me,
okay.
So alan the super cool guysmoking cigarettes and there was
another person that was smokingcigarettes.
I thought that her exchange waspretty funny she's smoking in
the school headmistress who theyhave is that the one that lived
(08:17):
there?
Josh (08:18):
uh, yeah, that's the one that lived there which is really
weird, that she not really, Idon't know if I had a teacher
that lived at the school thatwas I mean it's it was not
really for like rural, ruralareas that is.
Travis (08:29):
Yeah, it's room and board.
That was like the entirearistocracy in england.
You would have a live-in tutor,a person that would raise your
kids.
They wouldn't have to go to aschool.
Josh (08:40):
You'd have a person who lived in your house, had a
separate quarters do you thinkit was her house before it was a
school, or vice versa?
Travis (08:46):
I think no, I think that she got hired and she needed a
place to stay and applied forthis job because it gave her a
place to stay.
And I don't know if Zimbabwewas a British Commonwealth or
not, so a lot of those likeBritish tendencies carried over
into a lot of African culture.
Josh (09:02):
Well then I was wrong.
Travis (09:03):
It's not weird, I carried over into a lot of
african culture.
Well then, I was wrong.
It's not weird.
I've changed my mind, maybe,but for the time you know, it's
a completely different countryand their, their cultures, are
different.
I just that's how I feel.
I didn't think that it wasweird.
I felt like it was a verynormal thing for a school
teacher to live there.
I don't think she was squattingand living in like a custodial
closet or whatever, with themops just waiting for everyone
to leave mop, and then you're myonly friend.
Josh (09:25):
Well, I'm gonna finish cleaning up and then just falls
asleep somewhere yep, uh, youguys are gone right sleeps at
her desk I mean, she probablydid that.
Travis (09:33):
Her name is judy bates, by far one of my favorite
characters in this was judybates, and then my boy dowan he
was my least of course he was,because he's the prankster.
You don't like pranksters.
Judy did say that she did havean experience where she woke up.
It was between the time wherethe kids saw or had this
encounter and before John Mackshowed up.
(09:55):
Yeah, and she said she neverspoke about it until this
documentary.
Josh (09:59):
Yeah, she didn't want to.
Travis (10:01):
I don't understand why Like if she sees these kids that
are taking a risk, why didn'tshe do the same thing?
That's why I'm really skeptical, because all of these accounts
are based on eyewitnesstestimony and a lot of it has to
do with feelings, and feelingsare subjective to the time that
it's happening.
If you have a feeling, you'regoing to associate that that's
going to get tied into yourmemory and then sometimes I
(10:21):
don't know if you've ever told astory about you know one drunk
evening that you've had thattends to build as you tell that
story, because you may get kindof tired telling that story and
you want to amp it up.
And I feel like that was thecase with these kids is that
they had maybe believed in thestory, but they wanted to
believe this was the case.
Josh (10:40):
But we have video footage of them telling the story as a
kid and the same story,non-amped up, is them telling it
, but that's no, it was.
Travis (10:48):
It was totally amped up like she talked about, uh, how
the aliens had gotten into hermind and said they wanted to
save the earth and before it wasjust like, well, it was my
conscience or whatever that hadgotten in her head I mean, it is
a child, they don't know butthat's also.
That's a memory.
I mean it doesn't have to beamped up if that is your memory
and you have that documented.
You're not going to want todiscredit yourself in that way
(11:11):
so one thing, this psychiatrist,john mack.
Josh (11:14):
John mack, he had the kids explain and draw, okay, what
they saw.
Right, they did not draw thesame thing over and over again.
It wasn't identical, it wastheir own perception, their own
views, which actually made itmore compelling because, like
these 60 kids, if they alltalked and said this is what
it's going to be, they would alldraw an identical thing.
(11:36):
Yeah, they did not draw anidentical thing for an
eyewitness account.
Like, if you have one or twoeyewitness accounts, you can't
take someone to court for aneyewitness account.
Well, like, if you have one ortwo eyewitness accounts.
Travis (11:46):
You can't take someone to court for an eyewitness
account.
Well, no, that was talked aboutin this documentary and that's
the thing is that eyewitnessaccounts are used in a court of
law and have been used astestimony to sentence people to
death.
But there's a group of lawyersthat are trying to rectify that
with like DNA evidence and theyare getting people freed because
there was an eyewitness accountthat said this person had done
(12:09):
this crime.
And now they are.
They're free because they'vebeen acquitted of these charges
because that eyewitness accountwas false and the DNA didn't
match up with that eyewitnessaccount.
Those that only happens withthe DNA evidence.
Yeah, kim.
Josh (12:21):
Kardashian is part of that .
Oh, you're invoking Kim.
What happens with the DNAevidence?
Travis (12:23):
Yeah, kim Kardashian is part of that, uh-oh, you're
invoking Kim, uh-oh it isdropped Kim Kardashian.
Josh (12:31):
She went to school to be a lawyer on top of all the other
things.
I respect her a lot, sure, yeah, she's my queen.
Get it, get it, girl.
She is in groups or she is in agroup, I don't remember what
it's called, but it's basicallythe reformation of prisons, and
she has gotten a lot of peopleout that have been wrongly
accused.
(12:51):
Yep, so I gotcha.
Oh, I said eyewitnesses weren'tvalid and you're like, actually
, no, they are.
Travis (13:00):
No, I didn't say they are.
I'm saying that they are.
I don't think they're valid,but I'm saying they are used in
a court of law to prosecute andsentence people to death.
And then it is countered by thewhatever the DNA that they're
they're finding and using inthese, in these cases, to
vindicate these people that havebeen wrongly accused because of
an eyewitness testimony.
Josh (13:21):
Yeah, but this is 60 eyewitnesses Also, it's 60
children, 60 children which arestill eyewitnesses.
If 60 children were molested bya priest and they came forward.
Okay, but that's not the samething, but the thing is.
Travis (13:35):
We're not talking about physical contact.
We are talking about kids thatclaim they saw this thing and
they're drawing differentinterpretations.
Now, for a moment, let'sacknowledge the fact that
spaceships have been in popculture for, at this point, at
least 40 years since the 50s, ifnot earlier, if you're into
comics and HG Wells and thingslike that.
(13:55):
So there are interpretationsand things like that.
So there are interpretationsand iterations of what these
kids are drawing.
It's in popular culture.
It is permeated in everybody'sconsciousness from everywhere.
If you've seen a sci-fi movie,you know exactly what an alien
ship is supposed to look likeand that is what was drawn was a
version of that, but one kiddescribed this alien as having
(14:17):
hair like michael jackson.
Yeah, I think that lines upwith maybe that testimony that
there was a gardener out in theyard and maybe the light had
caught.
It was like maybe the sun wassetting or the light was just
hitting the right, this gardener, the right way, that they
thought it was an alien or anextraterrestrial, or if we had
otherworldly or whatever yourboys lie.
Josh (14:41):
False his, his prank.
False if it was a gardener,because he said it was a rock
well, he said it was a rock,right, but now, other people are
saying it's a gardener no,that's what the head, the
headmistress, judy bates, hadsaid.
Travis (14:53):
She was like well, there was a gardener out there and
maybe that's what they wereconfusing it as.
But the guy yeah, my boy Dallinwas like yeah, I saw a shiny
black rock out there, and that'swhat.
That's what I said.
It was a.
He said it was a spaceship.
He didn't say he saw that therewas a person out there.
That was all I think in aneffort to validate what
everybody had seen.
They had exaggerated what theyhad seen.
Josh (15:14):
I mean, they even mentioned one of the guys is
like I know what a rock is.
Travis (15:18):
When you're okay.
So let's go back to us talkingabout party time.
Anytime you want to tellsomething to somebody in an
engaging way, you're going toexaggerate it.
I'm not saying that it's rightor it's good, but you want to
exaggerate it for the outrageouscontent purposes, right.
You want to make your audiencefeel like, oh my God, what?
No purposes, right.
(15:38):
You want to make your audiencefeel like, oh my God, what?
No way.
And I feel like saying that itwas an alien or like a spaceship
.
Was that first level?
But then the people that theywere trusting to believe them,
their teachers and theheadmaster I don't remember what
the headmaster's name was.
Josh (15:51):
Kind of creepy, though he was kind of creepy.
Travis (15:53):
It did put off like some kind of weird vibes.
Yeah, the way to convince themis they're like well, not only
that, but we also saw an alienand it looked at me with their
eyes their big dark eyes.
It reminded me of Ralphie in theSimpsons when he caught Mrs
Kerboppel and somebody else inthe closet and saw them making a
(16:15):
baby and the baby looked at him.
Oh my gosh, I get it that thesekids all felt like they had
this shared experience.
But I also I know, having kidsof my own kind of the outrageous
stories that get told andthings that they don't maybe
understand or maybe miss see,and they don't have the language
to interpret what that is orunderstand.
(16:36):
I mean their experience is verylimited and sheltered.
You know they're children.
We want to protect them so theydon't see.
You know all the things that wesee as adults.
Josh (16:43):
Yeah, we were staying at my parents' house a couple
months back and my 12-year-oldheard some clicking and she
couldn't sleep.
She had to get into the bedwith mom and she thought it was
a ghost.
Yeah, it was the refrigerator.
Travis (16:58):
And that's totally.
That's totally fine.
I want to validate what thesepeople experienced, but and that
is what John Mack was doing.
They feel well.
John Mack Okay, so John Mack,to give a little bit of history,
he was a psychiatrist thatdealt with child psychology or
psychiatry.
He was primarily dealing withchildren, so that made him more
adept at talking to these kidsand ultimately he was brought
(17:19):
into this by a friend of his Ithink his last name was H-U-H-N,
something like that was broughtinto this because of these
phenomena that were happeningand he was just curious and was
like, if people are having theseexperiences, I want to know
what it is that's causing them.
Josh (17:35):
It was strictly out of curiosity At first.
He didn't believe what washappening.
Travis (17:39):
I don't.
I still don't think there'snothing that after watching this
episode and I haven't done theamount of research that you or
All I've done is watch theepisode.
Your wonderful wife have done,but at the end I don't feel like
he believed it.
He just wanted to drawattention to the fact that these
people had been having theseexperiences and we needed to
listen to them and not assumethat they were crazy.
Josh (18:03):
Yeah, we're not going to drug them.
Travis (18:04):
That was the ultimate, yeah, he never said aliens were
real.
Josh (18:06):
Well, he never said anything like that.
Travis (18:08):
The difference between psychology and psychiatry, a
psychologist listen, they'relike when you see that image of
somebody laying on their couchand talking about their feelings
.
They're talking to apsychologist.
Josh (18:16):
Yeah.
Travis (18:16):
A psychiatrist is a doctor that can prescribe you
drugs.
Yes, harvard thought that hewas committing malpractice
because he wasn't medicatingthese people.
Because Harvard felt like theywere Crazy.
Well, yeah, to use the curazyword, the C word, yeah, they
thought that they were mentallyunstable.
Josh (18:35):
Oprah used it, so I can.
She was in the documentaryOprah's on word.
Yeah, they thought that they're, they were mentally unstable.
Oprah used it, so I can.
Travis (18:37):
She was in the documentary oprah's on man, so
you gotta trust oprah yeah.
Josh (18:42):
So some of the credentials that john mack had was he was a
tenure at harvard,single-handedly built the first
outpatient psychiatric ward.
Okay, let's, let's say theunited states.
Travis (18:52):
Let's take it easy with the single-handedly, because
nothing's done single-handedlyhe did it.
Let's say he did it with onehand okay, I'm sure he had a
team of people.
I I feel like you're going offbook.
I don't.
I don't understand what.
What's happening here, but uh,yeah, I'm sure he had a team of
people to build.
Josh (19:08):
Whatever it was that he was there to build I was
actually using a direct quotefrom the, the documentary oh,
dang, okay.
Travis (19:14):
well, that's a, that's an artistic for us, okay.
Josh (19:16):
Yeah, I take things very literal and I want everyone to
know that he did it with onehand.
Okay, so this guy is nothing toscoff at, he's an accomplished.
Travis (19:26):
He's very accomplished.
I mean anybody that graduatesfrom Harvard in any aspect,
through any course of study.
I agree should be taken veryseriously.
Josh (19:35):
And I believe he was in the right at all times hashtag
believe john mack, huh, yep allright, mack was right.
Yeah, mack and me that's analien movie.
Travis (19:47):
Well done, thank you.
Is that why?
Yep?
Is that why mack is called mack?
Because john mack?
Yep, holy shit, holy shit, holyshit.
Maybe you are going to get meon this train.
Josh (19:57):
Oh yeah, I know I will.
It's all connected.
I'll get you Alright, get youreal good.
Travis (20:02):
That didn't sound threatening at all.
That was like a come on.
Josh (20:04):
Yeah, that didn't go well, did it?
It went fine, it went good,okay.
So I don't think he was in thewrong at all.
I think that he wait a second.
I'm not.
We're not assigning blame here.
What is, what do you?
Travis (20:21):
mean, well, the entire top executives or whatever, in
charge of harvard.
It wasn't, it was sure the deanthe, the old crook of the 80s
college party movie, right likewe'll say let's just call him.
We'll call him the dean, right?
Well, the dean yeah was tryingto end.
This is the dean is a team ofpeople.
Josh (20:36):
Yeah, including his colleagues.
Travis (20:38):
Some of his colleagues.
Sure, yeah, they accuse him ofmalpractice because they didn't
like that he was seeming tovalidate these people's
experiences, um, and they justwanted to kind of brush all this
under the rug.
They didn't they, they didn'twant to address it and they
didn't.
They thought it was kind of awaste of his time.
Josh (20:57):
They thought that they should have given these people
tranquilizers because they wereclinically insane, and he did
not agree.
He said that there's somethinghere.
Travis (21:07):
Well, and when we say these people so he interviewed
actually 200, there were 200people under this study where he
talked to them about thisexperience and he said, yes,
they're all experiencing ashared thing.
But at least my impression ofwhat he was saying was that
doesn't necessarily make it true, that just makes it personal to
them.
So they feel like theyexperienced this thing and I
(21:29):
just want to find out why andwhat it is that they were
feeling.
And so that was the wholecourse of his study.
Josh (21:35):
Yeah.
So when his colleagues weresaying like yeah, now he
believes in aliens, I got madbecause that's not what he was
saying.
He wasn't saying that at all.
He's like something happenedand I want to know what it was.
And he never said the alienswere real.
He didn't say anything aboutanything other than just medical
, psychological things.
Travis (21:57):
Yeah, he said they weren't psychologically unstable
and that's why he didn't wantto prescribe tranquilizers to
them.
That they were mentally fit.
Yeah, and so he's, yeah, like.
Josh (22:05):
I said and ashamed.
Travis (22:06):
Yep, that was a universal feeling is they were
ashamed of what it was they'dexperienced.
I don't think it was theexperience that made them feel
ashamed.
I think it was sharing whateverit was that they had seen and
then being laughed at and peoplenot taking them at what they
were worth Like.
Let's take this rock thing, forexample.
This kid Dallin, my boy Dallin,said he saw this rock.
Rather than address that, theytold people they didn't say hey,
(22:31):
no, it was just a rock that youguys saw.
Let's go out there and let'slook at this.
Let's stand where you were.
Let's look out in the field,let's see what it is that you
are looking at.
Let's go out and investigatethis.
Seemingly nobody was willing todo that.
They just said no, you'refucking crazy, you stupid kid.
Go back to playing jump rope orwhatever.
And so that's what I felt likeJohn Mack was trying to do, but
(22:53):
he was years too late.
Well, this happened in what?
94, right?
Yeah, so I think this is 94, 95when he was asked by his friend
to go and investigate this.
Josh (23:03):
And he was the last of the people to show up.
Travis (23:06):
He was the last of the people to show up and actually
made these kids feel heard.
But when you're a kid and youwant to tell a story and impress
an adult, you're going toexaggerate some things and some
things are going to become verypersonal and you're going to
internalize that.
Josh (23:20):
But something traumatic happened.
You think it was allimagination.
Travis (23:24):
I don't think it was traumatic.
I don't think it was traumaticfor anybody.
I think that what they had done, I think the trauma came from
the aftermath of relaying thestory.
I don't think that the eventitself was traumatic.
Josh (23:34):
What's your boy's name?
Again, dallin.
What if think that the eventitself was traumatic.
What's your boy's name again,dalin?
What if it was traumatic forhim and he?
Travis (23:43):
blacked it.
He's a cool.
He's a cool ass guy who'swearing like a cool cigarette
and smoked a couple cigarettes,like in silhouette leaning
against a fence post one timemade him look real cool, cool
guy man, cool guy on campus.
Josh (23:51):
But what if it was traumatic so traumatic that he
forgot it?
Travis (23:55):
okay, but you're introducing a what if?
To a thing that he said he madeup.
I get what you're saying, butwe are we're talking about the
things that are reported on.
We can't speculate on.
Josh (24:05):
You want to know my speculation on him.
Travis (24:07):
On an outside story.
Josh (24:08):
Yeah, what was his name?
Again, darren Dallin Dallin.
Travis (24:11):
D-A-L-L-Y-N.
I cool name, yeah, coolspelling.
You got a beer like yours.
You're kind of a cool guy,thank you.
Yeah, he looked like you.
No, like, uh, yeah, better,worse I don't.
Josh (24:25):
I mean he was a good looking guy.
I don't want to.
I don't want to discount hislooks.
We're both like half cock rightnow just talking about no he's a
good looking chap, but herehere's what I thought, and it is
strictly hypothetical, this isjust my non-professional opinion
.
He wasn't the popular kid inschool.
I think he was friends in thegroup of the popular kids.
(24:46):
I don't think he saw whathappened and I think he felt
left out and I think when allthese kids started talking about
what was happening, theaftermath and the backlash was
traumatic for those kids and Ithink it was just as traumatic
for him because he was not apart of it.
But he was there and I think hehas a lot of regret for not
(25:07):
being in that.
Okay, I think he wanted to beaccepted because he was one of
the most passionate people aboutthis in this whole documentary
and he was saying like no, theseguys are liars, like I mean.
Travis (25:19):
He was very I didn't think he was passionate.
I mean not as passionate as andI didn't write this person's
name down, but she was wearinglike a print dress, she had
blonde hair.
She was the most passionate.
I think Dallin was apologeticand I feel like he felt sorry
about what he claimed to havedone by calling it a lie.
(25:39):
Me calling him a cool guy isjust like my personal feeling
and I'm projecting on himbecause he's just seemed like a
cool guy.
I feel like you know maybe hewasn't a cool guy in school, but
I do know how susceptible kidsare to somebody who is claiming
to have seen something and theyall want to believe and feel a
part of that.
Josh (25:58):
Yeah, imagine if 60 of your classmates saw something
and you didn't, and you werecalling them liars.
Those 60 kids are going to gangup.
Travis (26:08):
We're saying there were 62 kids, but we're not.
Josh (26:11):
I think he lost friends, just as they lost friends, sure,
yeah, yeah.
I feel sorry for him and,honestly, other than the one
woman that wouldn't seek acounselor because of her issues,
because she was afraid yeah, Ithink that he was the runner up
for being the most mentallyunhealthy.
I think that, and the personthat lived at the I think she
(26:33):
was totally fine.
Travis (26:34):
I think that she You're okay with her encounter of being
abducted no.
Have we talked about herabduction?
Briefly, yeah, she got abducted.
Well, she claims to have beenabducted.
Josh (26:43):
This is the headmistress that lived there.
She got abducted.
They came back three times andasked Claimed, claimed.
Yeah, she specifically told thetruth of them coming back.
Travis (26:53):
Her truth.
Josh (26:54):
Universal them coming back , her truth, universal truth of
them coming back.
And then the third time, eachtime they said, hey, do you want
to come with us?
Do you want to come with us?
And she said, no, yeah, I haveto finish things here.
That took a big turn.
That was crazy.
Yeah, I love to believe, butthat was a hard belief for me uh
, yeah, I, I didn't really takeher testimony into account.
(27:15):
You disregarded her.
Travis (27:18):
I did.
Josh (27:18):
But she was your favorite character, Not character person.
I liked she's a real person.
Travis (27:23):
I mean, she's a real person.
I liked how kind of down toearth she was.
Josh (27:27):
Yeah.
Travis (27:28):
And she'd been doing this for a very long time and
she wanted to protect thechildren, and so I think her
saying this was a way to kind oflike diffuse what had happened
to the kids and say like, well,no, this happened to me too, and
then that took a lot ofpressure off the kids.
I think she's a very protectiveperson and maybe fabricated.
Josh (27:49):
To the point where she thought, sure yeah, where she
was wanting to potentiallycommit suicide, josh like humans
are born liars and we love tolie.
Travis (27:59):
It's one of our greatest joys.
I mean we like to exaggerate.
Josh (28:04):
Children aren't as innocent as we think.
Having kids myself, they'repretty conniving and they lie a
lot.
Travis (28:10):
They do they lie, but they're also pleasers they want
to make.
Josh (28:13):
They're not pleasers, they just don't want to get in
trouble.
Travis (28:15):
Some of them, some of them, though, my kids.
They just wanted to make ushappy.
That was it.
Oh, in their own way, and theywent about it, you know, in
crazy ways, but you know allkids do that.
Josh (28:27):
Yeah, I did that when I was a kid.
I went above and beyond to dodifferent things Make a game
night.
When my parents were on a dateand they'd get home at like
midnight, I'd be in a suit,right.
They're like hey, welcome tothe game night.
They're like, oh, you'resupposed to be in bed.
Yeah exactly, I was just likenope, I got all these games
ready for you I've.
Travis (28:47):
I've made tickets.
Here's a ticket.
You get one ticket for eachride.
Uh, you give it to me and thenI'll give it back to you, but
you have to pay me a cookie yeah, I remember that night vividly.
Josh (28:58):
I got it all ready in minutes and I waited for hours
just waiting.
Oh, trauma oh days feel so longwhen you're a kid yeah, yeah,
you just want to grow up yeah,which is weird.
My daughter doesn't want togrow up, she wants to stay a kid
for my kids, which is great.
Travis (29:18):
That means you're doing a good job as a yeah, that's
what I'm thinking that's how Itake it yeah, like great.
Josh (29:23):
I want you to enjoy your childhood, yeah I don't want to
get old nope, and I lie and saygetting old is great.
It's not.
Travis (29:30):
Oh, it's the worst oh geez, by far it's the worst
thing.
Worse than sharks, worse thanbears the sharks aren bad.
No, compared to getting old.
Oh man, sharks pale incomparison.
Okay, so let's get back ontrack.
Yeah, what were we talkingabout?
Travis hates children.
Josh (29:47):
No, I don't.
Now we're getting into tricky.
Travis (29:49):
Travis thinks all children are liars and the human
race is a big lie I do thinkkids lie, but I don't think
that's a fault of being a kid.
I think that that's just anatural, uh, learning part, like
you have to.
Kids are okay.
Let me collect my thoughts.
Kids are sociopaths and theyneed boundaries, and that's how
they figure out how put religionaside, um, I they're not
(30:14):
sociopaths.
Josh (30:14):
Their brain hasn't developed for them to think
outside of themselves.
Travis (30:17):
Well, that's sociopathy.
That is exactly what sociopathyis.
Josh (30:20):
Yeah, but they're not diagnosed sociopathic.
Travis (30:24):
You don't act like within a boundary of
consequences, you just dowhatever you want and fuck it, I
don't care.
Like that's sociopathy, yeah,and that's what kids are.
They're a little sociopaths.
They need boundaries to helpthem define what is, without
getting too moral, but what isright and wrong.
Like hitting somebody in theface is not good because that
(30:45):
hurts that person.
But a sociopath wouldn't careabout the pain you're inflicting
.
They're just acting on what itis they're feeling in that
moment, and kids just need thatlittle bit of guidance.
Yeah, right, right, I agree.
Moment and kids just need thatlittle bit of guidance.
Yeah, right, right, I agree.
So I don't think kids suck.
Josh (31:01):
I just think that lying is part of growing up and it is
part of being a oh yeah, I liednon-stop, a pleaser, and I was
blown away when my parents wouldcatch me yep, my parents used
to gaslight me and say, like youused to tell the truth all the
time, and now you're justnothing but a liar.
Travis (31:17):
All you do is lie, and I'm like.
All I said was I ate twocookies instead of one, please.
Josh (31:24):
I told you we were going to get off track.
You were talking about the endone of the lines.
Travis (31:31):
Yeah, so there's a couple lines of text that
appeared at the end of thisdocumentary.
One of them was 62 kids had allclaimed to have seen this thing
, but we only got to talk tofour of them for this doc and
they only had archival footageof those same four.
I don't know if they hadrecorded all 62 kids anyway
footage of those same four.
I don't know if they hadrecorded all 62 kids anyway.
But the last line was 10 yearsafter this incident, dr john
(31:51):
mack was killed by a drunkdriver and I was like not to be
government cover-up right, it'slike the aliens got him in the
end.
They didn't want to bediscovered so they got him.
Josh (32:03):
It was a government cover-up yeah, yeah.
Travis (32:05):
So, uh, that's that was the parting shot of that
documentary is just thought itwas really funny.
Like you said, uh, it was agovernment conspiracy and they
got it.
Josh (32:16):
No, that is exactly what I thought or the dean of harvard
got him, got really drunk andyep ran into him.
Travis (32:22):
Yep, just following him around all night and then just
stepped on the gas yep could be,or it was your boy dallin.
Josh (32:28):
It was dallin, maybe, probably.
Maybe he's smoking like he hadsecrets yeah, he was.
Travis (32:34):
I mean, he was still.
Where did this incident occur?
I?
Josh (32:36):
don't know.
I do know that naturally Ibelieve what these kids are
saying.
I think that they may haveembellished a little bit here
and there, well, well, well, howthe tables have turned.
But I do believe that they hadan experience and I think that
it was a phenomenon, okay, andas a kid, especially in the 90s,
(33:00):
they weren't able to comprehendwhat was going on, yeah.
So I think they did seesomething.
I think it was potentiallyextraterrestrial.
So I think they did seesomething, I think it was
potentially extraterrestrial.
I don't think the initial thingwas exactly like what they were
drawing and what they weresaying was exactly what happened
, but I do think somethinghappened, yeah, and that is
where I stand on the topic, okay.
Yeah, I mean, there was noattempt of a cover up anywhere.
(33:23):
It was just these 60 kids sawsomething and it was a mass
sighting.
Travis (33:28):
I mean 60 kids were enrolled in the school.
I don't know that there was atleast, and I'm only commenting
on the information that wasgiven to me in this documentary.
Josh (33:37):
Right.
Travis (33:37):
All 60 kids didn't see it, but there were 62 kids that
were enrolled and wereinterviewed for this.
Now it doesn't say that all 60kids share that same experience.
It just said that they were allpresent during this sighting.
That doesn't say that all 60kids share that same experience.
It just said that they were allpresent during this sighting.
That doesn't mean that they sawit.
That just means that they werepresent.
For me, if you've been aroundor have been a kid and you just
weren't self-realized likeAthena as an adult, but if you
(33:59):
were a kid, like your attentionspan is so short and if you're
playing on one part of theplayground, your attention, no
matter how calamitous orattention-grabbing it might be
on the other side of theplayground, you are going to be
so involved in what you're doingyou're not going to catch it.
So for them to say that 62 kidsshared this experience, I think
is very, very skeptical.
Josh (34:20):
They mentioned that there was chaos on the playground and
everyone was screaming andrunning away.
A bunch of kids ran away.
I think that's the normalplayground stuff, though.
Travis (34:29):
That's just kids running around like if you've seen
recess.
It is chaos, it is pure anarchy,it is constant noise it's, it
is, it's constant noise justkids running around and
shrieking and so for somethingto have happened off in the
distance.
And then everybody claims theysaw it.
I just I don't believe it.
I feel like it was, and maybenot just dallen, I'm sure he had
(34:52):
, uh, you know, his little groupof friends or whatever.
They claimed to have seensomething and they spread that
around and people wanted tobelieve that that had happened I
think you're just siding withhim because he smoked cigarettes
and he's cool he's a cool guywith a sweater and a cigarettes
man.
I think John Mack was cool.
John Mack was cool.
I thought.
(35:12):
I'm not saying that he wasn't.
It's not Dallin or John Mack.
Josh (35:17):
I think that documentary could have been twice as long.
I think they should haveinterviewed more people.
I wish I could have seen,because they probably have
videotape of them interviewinghim, of Dallin yeah.
Travis (35:28):
I think they could have cut it in half.
Oh really, yeah, I don't.
Josh (35:31):
I was fascinated the whole time.
Travis (35:32):
I feel like a lot of it was this one person feeling
attacked and talking about herexperience personally, and that
was it that kind of dictated thediscourse of this documentary,
at least as far as the kids wereconcerned.
They cut back to her as a kidgiving her testimony and then
her as an adult talking abouthow, you know, the aliens didn't
(35:53):
want people to be technology.
Josh (35:55):
Well, that's like your problem, man.
Travis (35:57):
That is like my problem, man, and that's me as a skeptic
.
Josh (36:00):
That's I think there was a lot more that happened in the
show.
Travis (36:04):
Well, sure, I mean, and we talked about it, we talked
about all kinds of stuff, but Ithink that's my role on this is
I'm the skeptic, I'm the personthat's going to cry foul that's
fine and believe the governmentJust kidding, I'll get you,
which actually brings us to thenext episode.
Josh (36:20):
Okay, is there trivia?
There is trivia Farts.
You keep talking about wantingthe government or the military
to release footage.
Sure, yeah, so I'm going togive you just that.
Travis (36:31):
Okay, is this the New York Times article that we're
going to talk about?
Because we didn't talk aboutthat.
This was referenced in thisepisode.
They said, yeah, the New YorkTimes covered this phenomena,
and all they did was cover theUAPs the unidentified aerial
phenomena Right, that was what Iread these articles before this
podcast, through a paywall,mind you.
Josh (36:51):
Man, yeah, I'm sorry for your, your trying times.
Travis (37:00):
Well, they are trying times but, yeah, all all those
that that series of articlesthey talked about, like people
identifying things that maybethey didn't really understand.
Josh (37:07):
Well, you have been mentioning that.
You want the proof, you wantthe tape.
Travis (37:10):
Oh boy, here we go, here's.
Is this going to be your gotchamoment?
No, it's just You're setting meup to fail another quiz.
Josh (37:18):
I just don't want to hear that bullshit anymore, so I'm
going to do an episode aboutmilitary tapes.
Okay, love it episode aboutmilitary tapes.
Okay, love it.
Next week we're going to talkabout military UAP and UFO
videos, okay, and we have alittle baseline quiz to see
where we're at, okay, so firstquestion, travis.
Travis (37:40):
Oh boy.
Josh (37:41):
How have the military UAP UFO videos been released to the
public?
Was it hackers leaked thevideos on the web and it was
picked up by news outlets?
Whistleblowers worked withCongress to retrieve the footage
for public disclosure.
An unknown source delivered thefootage by mail on a USB drive?
Or footage was released by thePentagon and leaked from
(38:02):
military personnel?
Travis (38:04):
Well, my paranoid freak sensibility says an unknown
source delivered the footage bymail on a usb drive.
But I kind of have the feelingits footage was released by the
pentagon and leaked frommilitary personnel.
Josh (38:16):
Final answer the usb drive is the most badass sure way
like I imagine, like anunderground yeah, like a parking
garage trench coat, someclandestine meeting happening.
Yeah, in some darkened alleyyeah, so you say footage
released by the pentagon andleaked from military personnel
that is what I think as well.
Oh shit, I don't know theanswer, because these are all
(38:40):
pretty convincing answershackers leaked the videos on the
web and was picked up by newsoutlets.
Sure man, I mean, I couldbelieve that a whistleblower
saying like, hey, this isimportant, you guys need to see
this why?
Travis (38:50):
why I'm gonna throw that one out is because I mean, how
recent is.
Are we claiming these eventshappen?
Josh (38:56):
I believe this was 2017 okay, that's uh reasonable.
Travis (39:00):
If this was like pre-90 or pre-2000s hackers, releasing
on the web is not a feasible wayof getting information out
there.
Yeah, and the whistleblowers.
I mean we've talked aboutwhistleblowers, that keeps
coming up.
Josh (39:13):
Next question what are the names of the three UFO videos
released in 2017?
Is it Click, Clack, Gumball andFlypast?
Travis (39:25):
Kickback, Cymbal and Bycast.
Josh (39:27):
Oh my, god, these rule Tic Tac Gimbal and Go Fast.
Cymbal and bicast.
Oh my god, these rule tic tacgimbal and go fast.
Or paddywhack, thimble and baja, blast what are they, oh my god
, what are the name of thesevideos those rule.
Travis (39:41):
I'm gonna say click, clack gumball and fly pass.
That's your answer.
That that's my answer.
Yeah, okay, I.
You're going to say Tic Tac,gimbal and Go Fast.
Josh (39:51):
Why do you say that?
Travis (39:52):
Because I bet the ship they saw went really fast.
Josh (39:56):
So they're going to go fast.
Yeah, yeah, okay, that is theone I'm going to pick, because I
know.
Travis (40:03):
Okay, perfect, continuing my streak of wrong
answers.
Josh (40:07):
Next question Uh-huh, what decade are the videos from?
So the videos that we'retalking about here with that
were released in 2017.
Okay, were they from the 1960sand 70s, the 1980s, the 1990s or
the 2000s to current day?
Travis (40:25):
I'm going to say 60s and 70s, 2000s to current day.
I'm going to say 60s and 70s Ithink the aliens saw, if they
came here and visited, whichagain I want to stress that I do
believe in aliens.
We are living on a planet andfinding life everywhere, in
places that we did not think itwas even hospitable for life,
(40:45):
like there are incredibly hotwater that's being released from
the center of the earth, yeah,like sulfur hot spots and they
are finding living organismsdown there in the most
inhospitable places.
Yeah, things where thingsshouldn't live, yep, where
things shouldn't live and soextrapolating that into like
where we are in the universe.
I do not think that we are.
(41:07):
I don't feel it's possible forus to be alone.
Josh (41:11):
And so you think the 60s and 70s.
Travis (41:13):
I do think the 60s and 70s.
Josh (41:14):
Yeah, because of that.
Travis (41:18):
No, because I think if these videos do in fact I'm not
saying that they don't exist,but if they are true the
government is so slow atreleasing things that that's
going to be a jumping off pointfor them, as they're going to
start from the earliestdocumented experience, the
earliest documented recordedphenomena, and then move forward
(41:40):
from there.
They're not going to start withI don't me personally, this is
I'm probably wrong, as I've beenproven to be I don't think
they're going to start with themost recent and then work their
way back and say like see, we'vebeen, these have been here all
along.
I think they're going to saylike, okay, look, we're going to
gradually declassify thisinformation.
Josh (41:57):
Yeah, okay, I'm going to say the 90s, 1990s.
All right.
Last question for our baselinewhat is theagon stance on the
footage?
The uaps are real and sightingshave been increasing in recent
years.
The videos are a hoax and themilitary is not seeing uaps at
all.
The uaps are enemy tech thatare releasing to the public as a
(42:21):
counter.
The videos are not from the usmilitary and cannot be
legitimized okay, so I thinkit's.
Travis (42:27):
The ap's are real and sightings have been increasing
in recent years.
I remember hearing about thisthanks to the good work of tom
delong of blink 182.
I remember this happeningduring like covid lockdown.
Some of the comments were likethe government has finally
acknowledged aliens exist andall we can talk about is toilet
paper.
Josh (42:47):
In 2020?
.
Travis (42:48):
What no, well, I imagine that was when we were all
talking about toilet paper.
Yeah, 2020, 2021.
Yeah.
Josh (42:55):
Yeah.
Travis (42:55):
Yep.
So I think the government didrecognize the UAPs are real, but
they didn't say that they werenecessary.
They just said they wereunidentified aerial phenomena.
Okay, kind of like the you knowany testimony.
They are just legitimizing thatpeople have seen these things
and they are willing toinvestigate these sightings.
That's my feeling.
Josh (43:15):
That is my answer as well, for similar reasons.
Okay, so let's see what we got.
Travis (43:22):
So I got the first one right, or you did, we both did
Well we both did so.
I only logged my answers.
Josh (43:29):
I only logged your answers as well.
Travis (43:30):
Oh boy, the first footage was released by the
Pentagon and leaked frommilitary personnel.
Yep Congratulations me.
Okay, so Click, clack, gumballand Fly Pass was mine.
Josh correctly guessed Tic Tac,gimble and Go Fast.
Josh (43:45):
These were all names made up by my wife Jordan.
Travis (43:50):
Yeah, the other three and it's really funny.
Josh (43:51):
It is funny.
Yeah, she is brilliant.
Travis (43:53):
Yeah, and potentially a rapper yeah, yeah, we did hear
some freestyle from her earlier.
Josh (43:58):
Maybe we'll get that, that's true.
Travis (43:59):
Maybe when she decides to be a guest we can get her to
freestyle for us?
Josh (44:02):
yeah, or it'll be a bonus episode of just her rapping.
So what decade are the videosfrom?
You said 1960s and 70s.
That was incorrect.
Yeah, I said 1990s.
That was incorrect.
Yeah, it was 2000s to currentday.
Wild, that is wild.
Travis (44:18):
So you're completely wrong oh, I mean yeah, it's
backward completely wrong lastquestion what is the pentagon
stance?
Josh (44:26):
on the footage, the us are real and sightings have been
increasing in recent years.
That is what we both said andit is correct.
Yeah, so you got two correct.
Travis (44:36):
I know I feel like I am growing.
I'm like the Grinch afterlearning about Christmas as my
heart is growing, at least inthis case, two times.
Josh (44:45):
Yeah, it's more so.
Your opinion is growing growing.
Travis (44:50):
Um, I don't, maybe a little bit.
Yeah, we'll get you, I think.
I mean, this is not likeopinion stuff, this is like
facts that I just don't, I don'thave yeah but uh, I'm learning
how to understand all theseparanoid freaks out there yeah,
and we'll hopefully change thatto you being a paranoid freak.
That's fine man, that's my goal.
Josh (45:12):
I want you to go insane, sure Big tent.
Travis (45:15):
Yeah, this is a big, it's a big tent community.
I'm sure they're very welcomingand cool and chill kind of
people.
Josh (45:21):
When we're done with this podcast, you will be wearing a
tinfoil hat.
Travis (45:24):
Okay, all right, well, challenge accepted.
Yeah, oh, it'll happen.
The only reason, though, I'llbe wearing a tinfoil hat is
because that's where I'm keepingmy warm tater tots.
Josh (45:34):
Okay, that's uh probably something you should keep to
yourself I'm gonna have toactually look into that.
Travis (45:39):
Uh, more on that.
On our next episode, I'm gonnabe testing out a tinfoil hat not
for the reasons you guys thinkyeah, well, thanks for listening
.
Josh (45:47):
If you guys want to contact us, our info is in the
description.
If you want to make fun of usor tell us that we're wrong, or
argue with us, like we mentionedbefore, we don't know much.
Travis (45:59):
Yeah.
Josh (45:59):
We're eager to learn, so if you can teach us something,
sure, we are all for it, andthank you for listening.
We'll catch you next episode.
Bye, bye, bye, bye.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.