September 12, 2025 • 46 mins
A fiery object streaks across the twilight sky over rural West Virginia. Children witness its descent and rush to find an adult. Together, they climb a darkened hill to investigate, only to encounter something that will haunt them for the rest of their lives – a towering figure with glowing eyes and a metallic lower body surrounded by noxious mist.
The 1952 Flatwoods Monster incident remains one of America's most compelling cryptid encounters, blending elements of UFO lore with unexplained phenomena. What makes this case particularly fascinating is not just what was seen, but who saw it – a group that included children, a mother, and a National Guardsman who all provided remarkably consistent accounts of their experience.
We dive deep into the original witness testimonies, examining how the story evolved from a terrifying personal encounter to national headlines. Was this truly an extraterrestrial visitor, as many believe? Or could it have been something more mundane – a barn owl perched in a tree, transformed by fear and fading light into something monstrous? We explore both the skeptical viewpoints and the elements that don't fit neatly into conventional explanations.
The most compelling aspect might be the witnesses themselves. Unlike many who capitalize on such encounters, the May family eventually withdrew from discussing the incident entirely, saying "I'd like to forget the whole thing." Why would they retreat from a story that brought them fame if there wasn't something genuinely disturbing about their experience? Meanwhile, the small town of Flatwoods embraced the legend, creating museums, festivals, and merchandise around their mysterious visitor.
Whether you're a committed believer in extraterrestrial visitors or a dedicated skeptic, the Flatwoods Monster case offers something truly fascinating – a glimpse into how an unexplained encounter transforms not just those who experienced it, but an entire community. Listen, consider the evidence, and decide for yourself: what really happened that September night in 1952?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh (00:05):
aliens yes but maybe no.
Welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no, withJosh and Travis.
I'm Travis, I'm Josh, and thisis an otherworldly podcast, as
(00:29):
ambiguous as our title.
So, josh, yeah, as we do at thetop of every show.
Let's talk a little bit aboutwhat we covered last week.
Travis (00:37):
Yeah, last week we talked about.
Josh (00:41):
Do you know why I asked you?
Travis (00:42):
No.
No idea what we talked aboutlast week well, I remembered,
and then, right when you askedme, I went blank.
Oh man, why do we always dothat?
Josh (00:57):
I don't know why do we start the show with this way?
Travis (01:00):
I think maybe it's endearing well, I also think we
should probably talk before theshow instead of sit in silence
for an hour.
I know, yeah, we also think weshould probably talk before the
show instead of sit in silencefor an hour.
I know, yeah, we do that weshould probably organize this
Remote viewing.
Josh (01:10):
Yeah, that's right.
Men who stare at goats.
Travis (01:12):
I've talked about that multiple times with multiple
people since then, throughoutthe week.
Josh (01:16):
Yeah, it's fascinating.
Yeah, We've talked aboutsubmitting that show to the
potties the podcast awards.
Travis (01:22):
P-O-T-T-Y.
Josh (01:23):
Yeah, the one they throw in the toilet.
Yeah, it's like the Razzies forpodcasting.
Travis (01:27):
Yeah, I like to think this is an introductory podcast.
We're not going to deep, deepdive in a lot of these things.
Yeah, we're learning, if youwant to learn and kind of get
the basics.
That's what this is about.
We're not experts.
Josh (01:40):
No, no, not at all.
No, I'm legally an idiot, whichI have covered many times on
this podcast.
Yeah, okay, so we talked aboutremote viewing.
Travis (01:48):
I think it's completely real and I think it still exists
, but they said they destroyedthe program.
The big theme is just what canour minds truly do?
And we don't really knowbecause we're still pretty young
, science is still fairly new.
Really know, because we'restill pretty young, science is
still fairly new.
We haven't dove into areas ofscience to test our limits but
(02:08):
the military and some schoolshave, and remote viewing or
astral projecting kind of, wasthe result.
Josh (02:16):
Yeah, I think humans are capable of incredible things and
we're still pretty young as aspecies.
Yeah, okay.
So today we should have startedthe show with cryptids.
Yes, but maybe no.
An earthly podcast where wedon't really talk about aliens,
or maybe.
Travis (02:36):
Maybe yes, because a lot of these cryptids that are
known out there do have aextraterrestrial or
multidimensional story.
Josh (02:51):
so that is a possibility.
We don't know, we'll find out.
So discuss this.
On the last episode, we do well, on every episode we do like a
quiz right at the end.
Yeah, and the last quiz we didwas the flatwoods monster, which
is the topic of our discussiontoday.
Yeah, and then you sent me amessage.
Do you remember that?
No, I don't.
(03:12):
You had sent me a message likeoh my God, you just talked about
the Flatwood Monster and Iremember on the last podcast,
we're like oh, we're going totalk about the Flatwoods Monster
and I think my response was huh, never heard of it.
Travis (03:19):
Yeah, it was in Men in Black.
You were mentioning it couldhave been anything that they saw
.
It could have been the, and yousaid, flatbush monster okay,
well, close enough let me findexactly what it says.
Oh yeah, you said it could havejust been a owl in a tree.
It could have been a flatbushmonster.
Josh (03:38):
Okay, and that correlates exactly very good, very cool,
very cool for a very cool thingfor me to say yeah I think at
the time my wife was goingthrough she had had a surgery
and her surgeon was really intocryptids and they were talking
about it and my wife let me knowand she's like, well, you know,
if you have a conversation withmy surgeon outside of, you know
(03:59):
my surgery, he's really intothis.
So maybe bone up a little biton it, and so I did, and I think
that was-.
Travis (04:06):
You were trying to impress a surgeon.
Yeah, man, okay.
Josh (04:09):
No, that's cool, I'm an idiot, and so when I'm talking
to a smart person you want tolook smart, I want to look smart
.
Travis (04:15):
Yeah, I get that.
Josh (04:16):
Yeah, I do like research, you do.
Travis (04:29):
So, yeah, that time frame, the men in black episode
doing my own independent cryptidresearch and I just wanted to
bring it up on the podcast tosound like, uh, like I was doing
some work, but you forgot allof it, absolutely every second
of it.
Yep, well, perfect.
So the flatwoods monster.
So we watched small townmonsters small town monsters
yeah that's the youtube channel,the company, and I thought they
did phenomenal that was good.
Josh (04:44):
Yeah, they talked to the May family.
Travis (04:46):
Yeah, they traveled to Flatwoods, Braxton County.
They interviewed a lot ofpeople that were original
witnesses.
They went to exact locations oras close as they could get.
I mean, for a smaller companyto go that big, I thought they
did amazing For this story.
There's not a lot of reallygood media or documentaries or
(05:08):
anything about just theFlatwoods monster, so them going
this hard on it it was great.
Josh (05:13):
I applaud them.
So if you're interested, smalltown monsters.
Travis (05:16):
Yep, Small town monsters , the Flatwoods monster.
A legacy of fear is what it'scalled.
Josh (05:22):
Okay, one of the interesting things about that
video was and we'll cover this alittle more in the dossier is
that this thing was only seenreally like once or twice, like
this group of people, and thenanother family saw it and then
it became kind of like aregional folklore.
Travis (05:37):
Yeah.
Josh (05:37):
But they said that the noxious mist will melt skin from
your body and leave you nothingbut bones, which is really
funny.
Like they just created this outof whole cloth.
Huh, the people that witness it.
The dog supposedly died likevomiting itself to death, but
then you talk to the mace andthey were like no, that didn't
actually happen.
Travis (05:56):
Yeah, the dog lived a full life.
Josh (05:57):
Yeah, they're like the dog .
Lived a full life and was outdigging holes out in the.
You know whatever this area foryears?
Travis (06:02):
Yeah Well, in the you know, whatever this area for
years?
Yeah Well, let's get to theencounter.
You want to read it.
Josh (06:07):
Okay, settle in Josh for a little bit and I'm just going
to read straight from thedossier Cool.
On a warm summer evening in thesmall town of Flatwoods, west
Virginia, an urban legend wasborn.
At around 7.15 pm on September12, 1952, three boys, edward and
Fred May, and their friendTommy Heyer, were playing in the
(06:28):
lawn of the FlatwoodsElementary School when they saw
something blaze across the sky.
It looked to be a fireballheaded toward the nearby
hillside.
They watched it as it appearedto crash on a farm owned by a
man named G Bailey Fisher.
So the boys ran to find anadult.
They told Edward's and Fred'smother, kathleen May, what they
saw.
She didn't dismiss them andsaid she gathered up her sons,
(06:50):
edward and Fred, their friendTommy and a 17-year-old National
Guardsman named Gene Lemon.
Being a small town, two otherlocal kids, neil Nunley and
Ronnie Shaver, heard what washappening and joined them
Together.
The group set off toward thehill with the family dog.
They climbed up the slopetoward the landing site.
The air grew thicker.
The further they went, the morethey could smell something foul
(07:13):
, like sulfur or burning oil.
The dog ran ahead into the darktrees.
Then it barked and suddenlystopped.
Gene Lemon, holding a flashlight, moved toward the spot where
the dog was and in the shadow ofthe trees, something moved.
Gene raised the beam and whatthey saw would haunt them
forever.
(07:33):
There, standing among the trees, was a figure.
It stood at least 10 feet tall.
Its face was shaped like theace of spades.
At the center, two glowinggreen eyes, unblinking, stared
back.
The body was dark red, withwhat looked like clawed hands
protruding from long arms.
Below the torso a dark metalliccasing flared out like a skirt
(07:57):
Around the creature.
A thick, noxious mist swirled.
The smell of sulfur filledtheir lungs.
It emitted a low mechanicalhissing sound.
The dog bolted away.
One of the boys wet his pants.
Gene Lemon screamed and droppedthe flashlight as he fell
backwards.
The group, nauseous andterrified, turned and ran to
safety.
What they saw would sparknational headlines, official
(08:18):
investigations and decades ofspeculation.
But for the people who werethere that night there was no
doubt they saw a monster.
Travis (08:25):
I think the most important thing that we need to
focus on is the wetting of thepants.
Josh (08:30):
If you are going to investigate something, no matter
what it is, always bring achange of pants.
Travis (08:36):
Why not Better be safe?
Josh (08:38):
Better be safe than embarrassed.
That's what I always say.
Yep, it's the only tattoo Ihave Right at the base of your
back, I'll never tell where itis Right at the base of my back.
Yeah, exactly.
Travis (08:48):
Yep.
Josh (08:49):
I did want to say doing some research.
I think I fell in love.
Travis (08:53):
With the Flatwoods Monster.
Josh (08:54):
Uh-huh, I went down a very weird rabbit hole looking up
sexy fan art.
Travis (09:00):
Oh, that is weird.
Josh (09:01):
It was confusing for me.
Travis (09:04):
Sexy fan art of the Flatwoods Monster.
Josh (09:06):
Uh-huh, and there's a lot of it out there.
Travis (09:09):
Okay.
Josh (09:10):
It started.
When we first started doingresearch for this after the quiz
, I had no idea what this thinglooked like and one of the
depictions was like and I thinkI sent it to you was like a
depiction of the Flatwoodsmonster in the Marilyn Monroe
over the air grate and I waslike, huh interesting.
I wonder how much more of thisis out there.
There's a lot Spoiler alert.
(09:32):
There is a lot, so I'll besending this to Josh.
Travis (09:39):
Maybe we could have some links in our show notes, and if
you guys want to send us somesexy fan art, do it.
Travis is a fan.
Josh (09:47):
I'm a yeah'm.
It was very confusing, like Isaid, wow, I think I'm in love
well, I'm glad we have thispodcast where we can unpack that
until we talk about anothercryptid and I go down another
similar rabbit hole well, I willtry to figure out where to put
this in the show.
That's why I had just had toget this off my chest.
I don't know where it's gonnafall in the show show.
Travis (10:04):
Yeah, well, we can figure it out.
It's crazy All this happens andthere was nothing in movies,
media or comics about aliens ormonsters at the time.
Josh (10:16):
Like this is all fresh.
You're right, this was thefirst time that any alien or
monster had appeared in popularculture at the time.
Travis (10:22):
Well, name some.
Thing.
I mean, you sound like you'redoubting me.
What was there?
Josh (10:27):
Well, there was War of the Worlds, plan 9 from Outer Space
.
There was the work of HG Wells.
Heard of him, yeah, hmm.
Travis (10:34):
I guess yeah.
Josh (10:41):
Flying saucers had become such a big part of, like,
b-movie cinema at this time, sothis is 1952.
Cinema at this time, so this is1952.
We also have the Cold War.
That is like very much buildingup, so the Cold War beginning
after World War II.
I don't think that the paranoiaof the Cold War had quite
reached rural West Virginia, soI don't feel like that was a
part of like them being scaredabout aliens or whatever.
But you know it was a big thingin popular culture.
(11:01):
I don't know when the TwilightZone started.
May have been around this time,yeah, because I mean the
originals were black and white.
Well, I know, josh, you canmake.
Well yeah, I know you can makeblack and white, but you can
make black and white now.
Travis (11:12):
Did they stay black and white when color existed, or I
just?
Josh (11:16):
assumed.
Oh, so this was years beforethe Twilight Zone.
Twilight Zone started in 1959.
Okay, so we talked aboutKenneth Arnold on a previous
episode.
Yeah, this was just a coupleyears after the Kenneth Arnold
incident, that was 1947.
Travis (11:31):
A few months after Roswell.
Roswell was big too.
It truly was the golden age ofsci-fi.
I mean, they were just goinghard on aliens and monsters,
yeah, and this is sounds like acombo of potentially both If it
came from a fireball falling outof the sky.
Josh (11:48):
Right.
Is that what they said?
Travis (11:49):
They saw like a big ball of fire.
Josh (11:51):
Who's?
Travis (11:51):
they the boys.
Before they went and got anadult, they saw a fireball, just
a big round ball, and then theywent and got some adults.
They came back to investigatethe craft.
Then that's where they saw thecreature, the alien maybe.
Josh (12:05):
so yes, uh, maybe the way that documentary that we watched
ended was with the may boyssaying I don't care what you
guys believe.
We saw this thing, there are alot of questions and the media
did kind of pick it up and runwith it like our dog, like we
talked about.
Their dog was still alive.
The media had said their momjumped over a six foot fence and
(12:27):
they're like my mom wasathletic but there's no way she
was jumping over a six footfence.
Travis (12:31):
Yeah, the media was just trying to get sensationalized
yeah.
So that's what was great Cause,these guys, these original kids
who are now old men, theystopped talking about it years
and years ago.
So it was cool to actually seethem interviewed.
They stopped talking about itbecause first it did get
sensationalized and then theysaw what they saw.
A lot of people got upset aboutit and were angry with them,
(12:55):
yeah.
And so they're like well, I'mjust going to stop talking about
it.
Either going to believe or not.
Josh (12:59):
Yeah, and then the town was like yoink Sutton or
whatever.
The town was where they live it.
Yeah, and then the town waslike yoink Sutton or whatever.
The town was where they live.
It was like yoink.
Okay, fine, we're just going totake all of the story and
mythology and we're going tocapitalize on it and we're going
to create the Flatwoods MonsterMuseum.
We're going to have like a Afestival.
A festival, sure, a paradewe're going to have, like a
scavenger hunt that you can do.
Travis (13:25):
And guess what?
Josh (13:25):
you win with the scavenger hunt.
Travis (13:26):
What A fucking sticker.
Yeah, I'm going to get thatsticker.
Well, and this is around thesame area as the Mothman which
is uh, which has anotherfestival.
Josh (13:35):
Yeah, is that West Virginia also?
Travis (13:36):
Or is that North Carolina?
It's West Virginia, okay.
Josh (13:39):
My wife would kill me if I didn't know where it was from.
That's her favorite cryptid.
Ooh, kill me if I didn't knowwhere it was from.
That's her favorite, cryptid.
Travis (13:45):
Ooh, thank God she doesn't listen.
Yep, these witnesses, the Mays,yeah, may, yeah, the May boys.
It just seems like a very realreaction for them to want to
stop talking about it, that kindof solidified, that they did
see something.
Yeah, and they're not lying,they refer to the guardsman
(14:07):
Lemon as that Lemon Boy, which Ithought was so funny In that
documentary.
I wanted to call out that namebecause it sounds like a fake
name.
Josh (14:12):
They're like that Lemon Boy.
He sure had a lot to say aboutthis.
Travis (14:16):
It was like real lemon.
Josh (14:17):
Yeah, it was so funny.
So we're talking about like agroup of people right that saw
this.
Travis (14:22):
Yeah, A family, a friend and then a young acquaintance
who was in the national guard um.
Josh (14:29):
Should we describe what this monster looks like?
It was described about likehuge boobs, right no?
Travis (14:38):
you described it well in the story a sexy smile.
Josh (14:41):
I don't think you need to take creative liberty and a
skirt.
Travis (14:45):
Metal legs.
I like it right.
Yeah, there was mention that itcould possibly be robotic or
missile-like or that was just aversion I saw in my own research
.
Yeah, and in my research therewas mention of it looked like a
B-52 bomb, like it had the shapeof that Pointy kind of on top,
metal-ish, like maybe that skirtwas metal hell yeah, man, this
(15:08):
is keep telling me about itfunky.
It was 10 feet tall, face shapelike ace of spades, two glowing
green eyes, unblinking between7 and 17 feet.
Josh (15:20):
Yeah, it's how it's sometimes described as well.
Travis (15:23):
But yeah, like yeah, the original witnesses.
They compared it to a tree thatit was standing next to, and
that tree is no longer there,hmm, curious.
Well, it was there for a longtime but it rotted eventually.
I mean trees, not all of themmake it, sorry to say, did it?
Josh (15:38):
rot, yes, or did the gas get it?
Travis (15:43):
I don't know, because it's not there.
Josh (15:45):
You can't ask the tree.
Travis (15:46):
Nope, but they knew the approximate height of the tree
and that, and so that's kind ofwhere we get the height.
Josh (15:52):
Or the approximate owl in the tree.
Travis (15:54):
Yes, and the trees do look spooky over there.
They look like arms.
Josh (15:59):
So I watched this video with my wife and I just kept
remarking how beautiful it looksthere.
Travis (16:04):
Oh, absolutely.
Josh (16:05):
Very green.
Travis (16:06):
That's where Fallout 76 is.
It's just fun walking throughthat kind of area and they did a
really good job recreating WestVirginia.
The Flatwoods monster is inthat game and I completely
forgot and I did play that part.
Josh (16:20):
There's a video that said that they were also in Zelda.
I don't remember.
Travis (16:24):
Yeah, I saw that too and I wrote that in my notes.
I was like Zelda and I put aquestion mark.
Yeah, but the Japanese havereally taken a liking to the
Flywood Monster.
Zelda is a Japanese game.
Josh (16:36):
Okay, so it's in Majora's Mask.
Travis (16:39):
That was the really really hard one, wasn't it?
Josh (16:42):
Yeah, it was a pretty complicated game.
Travis (16:45):
Like the hardcore gamers played it.
Yeah, that was right afterOcarina of Time.
Okay, so Well, you mentionedthe immediate aftermath, so
there was local law enforcementin this small town.
Josh (16:56):
Yeah, and what?
Travis (16:57):
did they find?
Well, when the sheriff and hisdeputy arrived at the site
shortly after the monster wasgone, there was no sign of a
creature, no craft, no tracks,no indentations or anything To
the law.
There was no evidence, therewas nothing unusual.
They just assumed that it wasjust some frightened kids.
Josh (17:14):
And a mom and a guardsman.
Travis (17:16):
In a spooky woods, yeah, which they did spooky.
Josh (17:19):
I mean, this is Septemberember, so at seven
o'clock it would probably havebeen pretty dark.
This is when the sun is gettingpretty low in the sky shadows
are abound, yep I mean the sunstarts setting at that time, at
about, you know, 6, 30, 7o'clock so this is right around
sunset, if not a little afterthe twilight time, and so if
(17:41):
you're walking around on thewoods, especially then when
there's not a lot ofstreetlights, you know you're on
the woods.
this is 1952.
Yeah, there's a lot out therethat could probably really scare
you.
Travis (17:50):
But children don't have imagination.
Josh (17:52):
But I mean they were.
They were their mom, Notoriginally.
No, they brought their mom out,they told her mom.
Travis (17:57):
They came back, so the kids saw the thing they saw the
thing.
Josh (18:00):
But they didn't go out in the woods, no, initially.
Travis (18:02):
They went and got an adult.
They saw the thing through thesky.
Good boys.
Josh (18:05):
Yep.
They went and got their mom andthen brought some of their
neighborhood friends along to goout and explore this area.
Travis (18:11):
Yeah Right, good for the mom though.
Josh (18:16):
We haven't mentioned that, that she didn't going through a
divorce and was probably justlooking for anything to do.
Travis (18:27):
Right.
Josh (18:27):
I don't know she was like.
I mean, she's a mom, she'sprobably busy had a handful of
mama's little helpers and hertwo and a half tumblers of vodka
and decided to go out on thislittle adventure with her kids.
Travis (18:35):
I mean, we're both parents.
If my kid, I would not goinvestigate with my kids.
I'd just be like, nah, we'refine, just stay inside.
Josh (18:42):
I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just make sure you
take your phone with you.
Travis (18:45):
So good for her.
Josh (18:46):
Yeah, I think that's a good parent, not dismissing Sure
, just looking for a littleadventure, break up monotony,
maybe find a new daddy for herkids.
Huh, I don't know.
Hmm, maybe an alien.
Yeah, maybe an owl.
Travis (19:00):
Oh, so this happened.
News outlets picked it up.
Well, first it spread word ofmouth.
These kids were talking aboutit at school.
It was some spicy recess goss.
Josh (19:10):
And, as we talked about, kids are reliable narrators.
Travis (19:14):
Always News outlets, the local papers, ran the story,
then national news outletspicked it up.
That's kind of how the tale ofthe Flatwoods monster exploded
almost overnight.
But yeah, it just got reallypopular.
And then Kathleen May, the mom,and Gene Lemon.
They were on an interview onCBS about this.
Their accounts were detailedand very consistent and they
(19:36):
described the same eeriecreature and the same foul smell
and the same unnatural mist.
And then magazines Gary Barkerpublished the smell and the same
unnatural mist.
And then magazines Gary Barkerpublished the Monster and the
Saucer.
It's in Fate magazine.
The tagline was True Accountsof the Strange and Unknown.
That was in January 1953.
By Gary Barker.
So this blew up really fast,which is pretty wild in a world
(19:58):
with no social media or fastconnections.
Kids and a family see somethingand now the whole world knows.
Pretty wild In a world with nosocial media or fast connections
, kids and a family seesomething and now the whole
world knows.
Pretty cool I would be proud ofmyself For spreading this, this
rumor.
Josh (20:10):
It's not a rumor, just spreading your true personal
experience.
Travis (20:14):
Yeah.
So the spotlight came and withit the skeptics who questioned
the motives of the whole thingand just said it was a hoax, the
May family, like I mentionedbefore.
They eventually just kind ofwithdrew from the whole
conversation and years later EdMay said I'd like to forget the
whole thing.
And that's one of the thingsthat I've mentioned.
(20:35):
A lot is, why are these peopleI mean, I don't think there's a
huge group of people that wouldmake these things up.
There's no benefit to it and itusually ends up just kind of
messing with their lives andruining it, and they always
usually regret speaking up.
Josh (20:49):
Yes, and.
But I also think, like some ofthe stuff is situational and
maybe they didn't see something,but they were so committed to
the shared experience they hadand then, years later, they're
just like you know what.
Maybe I'm misremembering it,but the best way for me to
handle this is I would just saylike I'd rather the whole
experience didn't happen at all.
Travis (21:10):
And there might be some people that way.
These guys, absolutely ithappened to them.
They're like yeah, it happened,but I just wish I could forget
it all, because it sucks Like Icould forget it all, because it
sucks like I can't have normalconversations with people.
People either believe me or not.
Josh (21:23):
They seem whatever I say isn't going to change that.
They seem to be doing just fineI mean they're okay I mean that
the guy was able to afford acallaway hat, and I know those
aren't cheap well, he might bedoing well for himself then
that's my mark.
Success is whether or not you'rewearing a golf hat yeah I think
that they're fine, but I dofeel that enough time had passed
(21:44):
that maybe they were doubtingwhat they saw, and I'm not
saying that when they said Iwish to forget the whole
experience that they're saying.
You know, this got to be too hotfor me.
I just think that, you know,maybe they wish that they didn't
experience this thing, thatthey'd experienced whatever it
is that led them down this path.
Right, they didn't experiencethis thing, that they'd
experienced whatever it is thatled them down this path, right.
(22:05):
And I think that's the casewith a lot of these instances
where you're so heightened andyou feel so afraid and you're
going to create this thing inyour head and years later, like
as you're talking your waythrough it, you're going to feel
a little, maybe embarrassedthat you had shared something
that had scared you so bad.
And you know you may havemisseen something, because, I
mean, this instance was minuteslike minutes long, right, they
(22:26):
saw something and then everybodyjust poof, took off, everybody
went running off, like theTravis Walton incident.
There were lights off in thewoods and then the driver of the
car just sped away and nobodycould really capture all of the
details.
And I feel like fear will dothat to you.
Travis (22:42):
They all kind of go that way.
I mean, the aliens move quick,or the spacecrafts, or the
situations.
I mean most situations in lifehappen quick, so you're not
going to remember the details ofit Not necessarily, but you can
also have some heightened senseand you do remember everything.
Josh (22:58):
I don't think so.
But we're not talking about analien situation.
We're talking about somethingthat could have potentially been
anything An owl could havepotentially been some kind of
animal up in a tree, maybe evena raccoon, could have been the
way the sun was setting, the waylight was playing off the tree
or leaves, or anything like that.
It could be any number ofthings.
(23:19):
But this experience happened tothese folks so fast.
I mean, the mom ran out ofthere and was later reported
jumping over a six foot fence,which the kids say didn't happen
.
But even that was misreported.
Travis (23:32):
Well, I mean when we talk about the reporting.
Josh (23:34):
It's not misreporting.
Travis (23:35):
It's sensationalizing.
You know they're trying to getreaders.
I mean they still do that today.
Josh (23:44):
Right, but these kids they read those reports and they're
going to look at what thatreport is and then slowly
they're going to read thatreport and that's going to
eventually maybe replace thatmemory.
Travis (23:49):
I mean, we just heard from the witnesses and their
memory is very sound.
It lined up and they told uswhat was true and what wasn't.
Josh (23:57):
This video that we watched was in 2017.
So this was 60 years, 65.
65.
Yeah, after this event hadhappened.
Travis (24:05):
Yeah.
Josh (24:05):
There's no way they're going to have total recall as
far as this incident.
Travis (24:09):
I mean it depends on.
I mean I have some dreams thatwere really traumatic and I
remember them vividly, and theywere 20 years ago.
Josh (24:16):
Okay, there's no way they're going to remember the
specifics of the 65 year oldmemory.
I mean, we don't even.
There's no way they're going toremember the specifics of the
65-year-old memory.
I mean, we don't even Wellthey've recounted it a lot.
We can't even.
No, they gave up.
They stopped talking about it.
Travis (24:25):
Well, they stopped talking about it, but before
that they talked about it awhole bunch.
So if I talked about thisexperience with my friends that
were part of it, and I talkedabout it a lot, and we've talked
about this before on very clear, you're going to start to
describe things the way youdescribe them to your friends,
and then that's going to be yourmemory.
Josh (24:43):
That doesn't necessarily mean that that's a true memory.
That's exactly how it happened.
You're going to start tellingyour friends this experience.
Oh my god, my mom jumped over afence.
Oh my god, the dog died fromvomiting.
Oh my god, there were actuallysix people there.
One of them died because theskin was melted off.
Travis (24:57):
There was nothing but bones left but you're saying
statements that aren'tnecessarily founded in truth.
No, they are founded.
This is like no you're sayingin science you're saying that
this is what's happening, orthese people.
Josh (25:08):
No, I'm just saying remember to totally rely on
these two people's memory.
It's not reliable, and to saythat this is a fact is not true.
This is just an opinion thatthey experienced.
This is how they're recountingtheir experience.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat there's a flatwood monster,
which I think would be fuckinggreat.
I love cryptids, but thatdoesn't mean that what they
(25:29):
experienced was an actualotherworldly experience.
I can respect that there areother elements and, like we're
talking about, this is a 65 yearold memory.
Well, when you, when you givefrom a very heightened like less
, probably less than fiveminutes.
Travis (25:42):
Well, what I'm saying is when you give a stamp statement
to saying that a lot of thesepeople that experience these
things are not rememberingcorrectly or they don't talk
about it because their opinionchanges.
We don't know that, and I feellike this is a really good case
where their view and opiniondidn't change, like this is a
(26:04):
really good case where theirview and opinion didn't change.
What changed was they didn'twant to be trying to convince
people or anything like that,because they said it doesn't
matter what we say, you'reeither going to believe or not,
and we're sick and tired of thatconversation, and it wasn't
about their memories changing oranything like that.
They stopped because theydidn't like the conversation
anymore, and I think that makesit a little bit more reliable,
(26:24):
instead of their opinionschanging or the stories changing
, which we have seen in the past.
That's why this just seemsthere's a little more truth that
they did experience something.
Josh (26:34):
I think they experienced something, and that's personally
.
That's where I'm going to givethem credit.
Travis (26:40):
Yeah, Well, let's talk about additional sightings.
So prior to September 12thwhich FYI, September 12th is the
festival date In Braxton Countyyeah, If you ever want to go to
that, Audra Harper sees a tallshadow figure rise from a fiery
location.
And then, September 13th,George and Edith Snitowski
(27:02):
experienced car trouble whichwe've seen before Betty and
Barney rubble.
They've experienced car troublenear the Flatwoods and they
reported smelling sulfur, seeingglowing clawed figure touch the
car and the car restartsmysteriously after the figure
vanishes.
Josh (27:17):
Yeah, so in that video that we watched it was a little
more harrowing.
The way it was told in thisvideo is that the husband was
outside, maybe thrown a whiz orsomething like that, and had
rushed back to the car andcouldn't get it started and the
mother was putting the kids onthe floorboard, saw the monster
and he heard her screaming frominside and the monster was
coming and then he ran inside.
Travis (27:47):
They got the kids on the floor and then the thing
touched the car and then theyhid, it was gone.
And then when they looked upagain, it was gone, yeah, and
then the car started.
So he just came and fixed thecar.
Josh (27:58):
Yeah, I mean like pretty nice Space mechanic.
Yeah, just trying to help.
What a sweetie.
Travis (28:04):
Yeah, makes me fall in love with it all over again it
is interesting having seeing afiery thing around the same
location, which is what the kidssaw, and then a different
family seeing a creature thatlooked similar so let's talk
about that.
Josh (28:18):
There was a meteor seen in baltimore, near there, very
close geographically, yeah, inthe sky I mean it is.
I mean all those states on theEast Coast are so close together
.
Travis (28:29):
They are.
Josh (28:30):
So the geographic distance from Baltimore, maryland, to
this place in West Virginia islike half of Idaho.
Idaho is such a big state.
It's like as they were drawingand moving west they got real
fucking lazy with the mapdrawing and they're just like I
don't give a shit anymore.
There is still so much land outhere.
This entire stretch is Montana.
This is all Wyoming.
So the states as you move westget considerably bigger.
Travis (28:53):
Well, and this is also what the US Air Force concluded.
This was their reasoning andexcuses their official
explanations Not excuses,reasons, sorry, yes, yes,
deductions, sure.
And they also said it waslikely a barn owl perched on a
tree.
Mm-hmm, just seems like lazywork.
Josh (29:14):
Well, I mean, there are a lot of barn owls.
Travis (29:15):
Yeah.
Josh (29:15):
Great horn owls you know are very prominent, especially
out in the woods yeah, they are.
And you know are very prominent, especially out in the woods.
Yeah, they are, and they're bigand they're big, creepily big.
Travis (29:24):
We went to an animal sanctuary in Texas and it was
awkward.
They have an energy when you'rearound them and it's a
noticeable energy.
They're a bird of prey.
Josh (29:35):
They're terrifying.
Travis (29:36):
Yeah, but also calming.
I don't know, it's weird.
Josh (29:39):
So yeah, there are a lot of owls in West Virginia a
barred owl, a great horned owl,long-eared owl, Ooh, a snowy owl
those are some big birds.
Travis (29:53):
The ones we saw was like the biggest owls in existence
and there's three of them on athing and they looked fake.
It was weird.
They didn't move.
It was one of the mostfascinating things I've seen.
Josh (29:58):
It weird, they're incredible birds yeah, but you
know, maybe that was it, maybethat's what they saw possibly.
Travis (30:05):
I mean there were skeptics saying it was anxiety
and hysteria distorting theirperception, which you've
mentioned before.
The obvious it could have beenshadows and branches and trees
creating an optical illusion.
The description does kind ofalign with an owl, possibly like
.
Like, if I'm going to playdevil's advocate, if everything
(30:25):
aligned perfectly, like theshadows and the branches and
then the owl and a tree, I couldsee a kid thinking like holy
fucking shit, this is somethingcrazy.
Josh (30:36):
So are all of the depictions from their kids'.
Does the mom describe what itlooks like?
Travis (30:42):
does yeah, they all saw it and they all have similar
descriptions, including thenational guard guy the lemon boy
yeah, and then the nausea andpanic were symptoms of
overexertion and fear.
So it is a big possibility.
But then having a couple othersin different situations, having
similar experiences with thefireball on a separate day where
(31:04):
the meteor is already come andgone, and one of the guys
described the ball.
He said it just kind of likegot more red but less bright and
then it faded away like upuntil a pinpoint.
So maybe that was a meteor,yeah, maybe.
So you can always be skepticalabout everything.
Josh (31:24):
Or you can always just believe everything.
Travis (31:25):
But just the combination of all the stories we've gone
through and the thousands morethat are out there.
Yeah, there's probably a lotthat aren't real, but there's so
many that you can't deny thatsomething's going on eventually.
Josh (31:42):
there's so much I mean you can?
I don't want to prove you can.
Travis (31:46):
But it's just like when you have enough puzzle pieces.
If there's enough, you can seea pretty big picture and
something's happening, sure it'slike?
Josh (31:54):
it's like the game of battleship, where you are
guessing coordinates right andyou don't know where the
person's ship is, and you'replacing pins on your side.
You're developing an idea ofwhere their ships are right
Based on the information that'sgiven to you, but this we don't
have.
There's not enough information.
It was a handful of kids, a mom, a 17 year old and then maybe a
(32:15):
very heightened family, andthat's it.
Those are the only realdepictions we have of this, and
so there's not enough realinformation, and so what you get
is they created a narrativearound.
It was well, the ship landedhere and then took off, and now
it's gone.
Travis (32:30):
Yeah, and I just think I mean concluding this for me
what I believe.
This one I think yes, and Ithink it is alien.
Just because of the ship andpotential metal.
I think, with all the otherstories going on, I'm coming
into it already believing thataliens exist.
And why would I not believesomething that I mean?
(32:53):
Yeah, it's firsthandexperiences.
You can't prove it, but themnot really wanting to talk about
it seems like a natural thing.
If something like that happenedto me, I'd be a little
skeptical about talking about ittoo, just because of backlash.
I think that I'm going tobelieve because there's a lot of
other proof, not necessarilyjust in this story, but just in
(33:14):
all the other stories, and thecombination is just like yeah,
this is totally plausible.
So that's where I fall.
Josh (33:21):
I can see that.
I can see where somebody likeyou who wants to believe so
badly, is going to see sometruth in this.
It's not that I want to seebadly, it's just you would want
to see it so you want to believeso bad that it kind of skews
the rational part of your brainwhere you can think about these
things skeptically or at leastlike rationally, like where you
(33:42):
you can look at all information.
That's there you want I to.
I know you want to believe andI think that that's very sweet.
Travis (33:48):
It's not about that.
It's just there's so many factsand so many things out there
that it would be weird notbelieving.
Josh (33:55):
I don't think so, Because humans have created dragons and
weaver and all these fantasycharacters based on fear and
things that they've seen out inthe woods unicorns these all
these things are part of, like,human narrative history and I
think this just aligns itselfwith that, like people seeing
things out in the woods andgetting very afraid and trying
to piece together what they'veseen.
(34:15):
I think humans have like such along history of recording these
kinds of instances with animalsand wildlife and things that
are foreign to them.
Travis (34:23):
And we have a long history of reporting spaceships
too, and those accounts haven'tchanged.
Josh (34:29):
We're still seeing similar things today, so it's not off
base to think that this is real,but the accounting of
spaceships is not as long and asvaried as like fantastical
creatures, right?
Travis (34:38):
Yeah, but we're not seeing creatures now or cryptids
, but we are still seeingcryptids and spaceships now,
Well, that's what is a cryptid,if not a fantastical creature?
Right, but we're still seeingthose.
You know, or people are stillseeing those, these fantasy,
mythical creatures you'retalking about dragons and
unicorns, and cheese goblins,cheddar goblins, cheddar goblins
(34:59):
.
Josh (34:59):
No, it's just transitioning to Loch Ness
monsters and Sasquatches andYetis and Chupacabras and things
of that nature, things thatlike maybe a little more
socially acceptable.
Everybody has decided that, youknow, there's not a giant snake
in the ocean that's going togobble you up and honestly, I
don't believe in a lot ofcryptids out there.
Travis (35:21):
Actually, when we took this test, I thought I'm
probably going to be on theskeptical side of this, but but
once finding, out that-.
Josh (35:27):
But then as soon as they said aliens, then you're like oh
, I'm in, I'm back in.
Travis (35:30):
It made a little more sense for me.
Josh (35:32):
And it's not delusion.
Well, what is a Sasquatch?
But just like a bunch ofChewbacca's walking around in
the woods.
Travis (35:38):
Chewbacca's are aliens, so it's real.
Yeah, no, I'm of the sound mindfrom the facts that I've
learned.
I don't believe everything Imay come across that I do, but I
don't always believe everything.
I am skeptical.
I was skeptical of aliens for areally long time and I saw
enough things and encounters andI've watched and listened to a
(36:00):
lot of skeptics about it too,and it seems that there are
holes in some of the stuff theysay.
But there's just some thingsthat are unexplainable and the
logical explanation would besomething otherworldly.
Okay, that's kind of where Iland on this.
Where do you?
Josh (36:19):
I want to believe that this was an otherworldly
experience.
I like the idea of having, likeI don't know, aliens among us,
right?
I just don't think there'senough in this specific instance
to really verify it for me.
Travis (36:27):
Yeah.
Josh (36:27):
So as far as our rating goes, I'm probably a low, maybe.
Travis (36:33):
Okay.
Josh (36:34):
And you're at a yes.
Travis (36:35):
I'm at a yes, maybe high , maybe just because yes is like
, oh, absolutely Fact.
If that's what yes means, Idon't know.
I don't know, but we won't know.
No, it's one of those things,and most of these are, and maybe
that's just how it's going tobe with aliens, because it is a
highly controversial topic andit is bonkers could have been
(36:56):
cold war panic fueled by sci-fishows I don't agree with shadows
, I don't agree with the coldwar panic thing.
Josh (37:01):
It's just helping move the conversation along and I don't
think that it touched rural,rural West Virginia the way it
may have touched some more urban.
Travis (37:09):
Yeah, One commenter on the YouTube video said that he
thinks it was testing for thejet pack and that would explain
the gas, the smell, the glow,the metal, the hovering because
I don't think we talked aboutthe hovering, but they mentioned
that the creature was floating.
Yeah, it was floating and thehumming sound.
(37:29):
So someone said thatpotentially could be it and that
was around the time they weretesting that.
But why would they be testingit in some backwoods, nowhere
place?
Josh (37:37):
Because they can get away with it?
Maybe Because then they havesomeone like me coming along 65
years later and saying it's anowl and paranoia.
See, so it worked.
Maybe that was the whole point.
Yeah, if you were going to testsomewhere, like you said, why
would you test it in such arural area where it's going to
be really?
Travis (37:55):
hard to bring equipment to.
Yeah, that's the only downfallin that thing, and if you're
trucking in equipment that'sgoing to be noticed by people.
Yeah, and you would test it in asecure place, especially at the
beginning of a Cold War, wheresecrets are everything.
Yeah, you would test it in anarea where no one is allowed.
It's a really good idea.
It just doesn't line upcompletely.
Because, why, because, why?
(38:16):
Yeah, well, thank you forlistening.
That is this episode.
We're not done yet, because westill have our award-winning
quizzes.
We're not done yet because westill have our award-winning
quizzes.
We don't know what the quizzesare until we open the quiz.
Oh, I don't like it.
This quiz is about ley lines.
(38:38):
I remember you mentioned theseat one point and you instantly
like no, those aren't real.
I don't remember that.
Maybe I dreamed it.
So, ley lines I know a littlebit about it.
I've heard them mentioned acouple times, but I don't know a
lot.
Okay, so this is what we'regoing to talk about next week.
Uh ley lines let's get to it.
(38:59):
Did you open the quiz?
Josh (39:00):
oh, I'm in it, yep okay, and lay is l-e-.
Right, not like I will lay withyou, yeah.
Or like lay a L E I a princess.
Travis (39:11):
Leia, who is an alien, I guess, if you think about it on
earth terms.
Josh (39:17):
here I mean if you, if you were a human born on Mars, you
would essentially be a Martianand not an earth thing, and that
would make you alien.
Travis (39:23):
Yeah, interesting.
All right, first question whatis a ley line?
Is it a a fault line whereearthquakes originate, uh-huh.
Good b a mystical straight linebelieved to connect ancient and
sacred sites across thelandscape.
Good c an ancient road systemused exclusively by
extraterrestrials.
D a trail left behind by laymoths during migration uh, good,
(39:50):
yeah, no idea.
Josh (39:51):
No idea what a ley line is really.
Uh, I think that it's amystical straight line believed
to connect ancient and sacredsites across landscape that is
what I believe as well.
Travis (40:00):
But the ancient road system used exclusively for
extraterrestrials, that could beit as well.
Hmm, potentially, hmm, but I'mgoing to say a mystic straight
line yeah, okay.
Next question what eventinspired Alfred Watkins to first
conceive of ley lines?
Is it, a a revelatory dreamabout Stonehenge Great?
(40:22):
B a realization in athunderstorm at Avebury?
C a revelation while viewing amap on a hill?
Or?
D a mysterious letter from adruid?
Josh (40:31):
society.
Oh, druid, I like that.
I'm going to say a revelatorydream about Stonehenge.
Travis (40:39):
I'm going to say a mysterious letter from a druid
society.
Josh (40:43):
Oh, boy, I love that.
Because I think they were on tosomething I love, that I think
that's a good answer.
Travis (40:49):
Okay.
Next one who famously suggestedthat ley lines might be landing
strips for alien spacecraft?
A carl sagan, the astronomer.
B tony wedd, an ex-raf pilot.
C matt parker, a mathematician,or d giorgio sucgio Tsoukalos,
the aliens hair guy.
Yeah, the ancient aliens guy.
(41:09):
Yeah, who's done really greatwork in the field of alienology
and all that and hairdressing.
Yeah, he created the messy hair.
Josh (41:18):
That's who I'm going to say.
Is Giorgio Tsoukalos?
Yeah, hair guy.
Travis (41:21):
Okay, I'm going to say I mean I want to say that, but
I'm going to say Carl Sagan, ohboy, okay, no, we'll find out,
all right.
Next question which one of thefollowing historical sites is
not commonly claimed to liealong a ley line?
Josh (41:39):
That was intentionally meant to trip you up that
question, but I did it.
You did it.
You landed the plane,congratulations, thank you.
Travis (41:46):
Is it A Stonehen stonehenge, b the great wall of
china, c chichen itza or deaster island?
I'm gonna say wall of china.
I'm gonna say that too, becausethat one wasn't really uh
sacred or ceremonial, it wasmore of a protection thing it
was a boundary set to keepinvading hordes out the
mongolians.
Right, yeah, okay.
Next question which of thefollowing is not a name
(42:09):
traditionally linked to leylines in indigenous or cultural
belief systems?
Is it a dragon veins, b ghostroads, c spirit lines or d broom
tracks?
Oh man, this one's I don't know.
Josh (42:23):
I track seems like it's so fake.
Yeah, that that's what I wasthinking.
But, like who knows thereasoning behind it.
I'm going to say dragon veins.
Travis (42:32):
I'm going to say broom tracks.
Okay, I'm just going to go forit, because I just don't know
how that could.
Josh (42:37):
Fall for it, huh.
Travis (42:39):
Yeah.
Josh (42:40):
Walk right into the trap, so what?
Travis (42:41):
would a broom track be I ?
Josh (42:43):
have no idea.
Travis (42:44):
I don't know when you're brooming, and maybe there's so
much dirt that it leaves a trailon either side Sure A broom
track.
I don't know.
Josh (42:52):
Like if you're sweeping through a really dusty place,
that first sweep.
Travis (42:55):
Yeah, there's going to be little lines.
Yeah, maybe All right.
Last question which of thefollowing is not commonly
believed to be a vortex or leyline intersection?
Is not commonly believed to bea vortex or ley line
intersection the a sedona,arizona, b glassenbury tour,
england.
C mount fuji, japan, or d timesquare, new york okay, I think
(43:16):
time square is considered one.
Josh (43:19):
Really.
I think so.
That's because it's like acenter of whatever, of culture,
and it's like a center ofwhatever.
Travis (43:24):
Of culture.
Josh (43:24):
And it's been a center for a long time.
Travis (43:27):
Yeah.
Josh (43:28):
Glastonbury, tor, I'm going to say Mount Fuji.
Travis (43:31):
I was thinking that too, because it's just a mountain.
Josh (43:33):
It's just a fucking mountain.
Yeah, like do somethingmountain.
Travis (43:36):
Yeah, get off your high horse.
Josh (43:38):
Yeah Jeez, can you imagine how big that horse would have
to be?
Travis (43:46):
It'd be a high horse.
Yeah, high horse.
Yeah, all right, so I did mountfuji.
Okay, I'm gonna submit.
Yeah, okay, so what is a leyline?
Josh (43:51):
woolly moly we both did terrible we both said it's nice,
you can laugh at yourself ohman, yeah, okay, so line, what
is a ley line?
Travis (44:06):
It is a mystical straight line believed to
connect ancient and sacred sitesacross the landscape.
Got it right, we got it right.
Next one what event inspiredAlfred Watkins to first conceive
of ley lines?
I said a mysterious letter froma druid society.
Josh (44:22):
I said a revelatory dream about Stonehenge, but then I
secretly changed it to a no, Ididn't.
But I looked back up at thatand reread that question and I
thought about changing my answer.
But I didn't want to go backand tell you I was going to
change my answer.
So I stuck with a revelatorydream about Stonehenge, even
though the right one is.
Travis (44:40):
A revelation, while viewing a map.
Josh (44:42):
A map on a hill Yep.
Travis (44:43):
The simplest answer Yep.
A map on a hill Yep.
The simplest answer Yep.
Okay, so we both got that onewrong.
Yeah, who famously suggestedthat ley lines might be a
landing strip for alienspacecraft?
It was the ex-RAF pilot, tonyWett.
Josh (44:56):
I said Carl Sagan, you said alien hair guy.
Yeah, we were wrong.
Yep, tony Wett, maybe we'lllearn more about him next week?
Travis (45:04):
Oh, that would be great.
Which one of the followinghistorical sites is not commonly
claimed to be on the ley line?
Great Wall of China, we bothgot that right Yep, probably for
that same reason, it wasn'tBoundary Hymn.
Yeah, next one, which of thefollowing is not a name
traditionally linked to leylines in indigenous?
Josh (45:18):
or cultural belief system.
Travis (45:30):
I got it right broom tracks okay, and then last one,
which of the following is notcommonly believed to be a vortex
or ley line intersection?
I was so confident about newyork, it was time square, and it
was time square.
So, mount fuji, you can stay onyour high horse.
I guess I'm sorry, it's a tallhorse.
It is Well cool.
I'm really excited.
(45:51):
I don't know a lot, I knowthere's weird.
Josh (45:53):
I don't know shit about fuck.
Travis (45:55):
There's some weird things with them and they line
up with a lot of weird things,and weird things happen in these
lines and we know where theselines are.
I don't know much.
I'm super excited about thisone.
I'm excited to grow my brain,know more and more, sure.
Well, thank you for listening.
If you want to get ahold of us,we have fan mail that you can
reach out to us.
(46:15):
Just on your phone.
Click fan mail in ourdescription and you can message
us and we'll get it.
Yeah, well, talk to you nexttime.
Josh (46:23):
Okay, thanks for listening , bye, bye.
aliens yes but maybe no.
Welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no, withJosh and Travis.
I'm Travis, I'm Josh, and thisis an otherworldly podcast, as
(00:29):
ambiguous as our title.
So, josh, yeah, as we do at thetop of every show.
Let's talk a little bit aboutwhat we covered last week.
Travis (00:37):
Yeah, last week we talked about.
Josh (00:41):
Do you know why I asked you?
Travis (00:42):
No.
No idea what we talked aboutlast week well, I remembered,
and then, right when you askedme, I went blank.
Oh man, why do we always dothat?
Josh (00:57):
I don't know why do we start the show with this way?
Travis (01:00):
I think maybe it's endearing well, I also think we
should probably talk before theshow instead of sit in silence
for an hour.
I know, yeah, we also think weshould probably talk before the
show instead of sit in silencefor an hour.
I know, yeah, we do that weshould probably organize this
Remote viewing.
Josh (01:10):
Yeah, that's right.
Men who stare at goats.
Travis (01:12):
I've talked about that multiple times with multiple
people since then, throughoutthe week.
Josh (01:16):
Yeah, it's fascinating.
Yeah, We've talked aboutsubmitting that show to the
potties the podcast awards.
Travis (01:22):
P-O-T-T-Y.
Josh (01:23):
Yeah, the one they throw in the toilet.
Yeah, it's like the Razzies forpodcasting.
Travis (01:27):
Yeah, I like to think this is an introductory podcast.
We're not going to deep, deepdive in a lot of these things.
Yeah, we're learning, if youwant to learn and kind of get
the basics.
That's what this is about.
We're not experts.
Josh (01:40):
No, no, not at all.
No, I'm legally an idiot, whichI have covered many times on
this podcast.
Yeah, okay, so we talked aboutremote viewing.
Travis (01:48):
I think it's completely real and I think it still exists
, but they said they destroyedthe program.
The big theme is just what canour minds truly do?
And we don't really knowbecause we're still pretty young
, science is still fairly new.
Really know, because we'restill pretty young, science is
still fairly new.
We haven't dove into areas ofscience to test our limits but
(02:08):
the military and some schoolshave, and remote viewing or
astral projecting kind of, wasthe result.
Josh (02:16):
Yeah, I think humans are capable of incredible things and
we're still pretty young as aspecies.
Yeah, okay.
So today we should have startedthe show with cryptids.
Yes, but maybe no.
An earthly podcast where wedon't really talk about aliens,
or maybe.
Travis (02:36):
Maybe yes, because a lot of these cryptids that are
known out there do have aextraterrestrial or
multidimensional story.
Josh (02:51):
so that is a possibility.
We don't know, we'll find out.
So discuss this.
On the last episode, we do well, on every episode we do like a
quiz right at the end.
Yeah, and the last quiz we didwas the flatwoods monster, which
is the topic of our discussiontoday.
Yeah, and then you sent me amessage.
Do you remember that?
No, I don't.
(03:12):
You had sent me a message likeoh my God, you just talked about
the Flatwood Monster and Iremember on the last podcast,
we're like oh, we're going totalk about the Flatwoods Monster
and I think my response was huh, never heard of it.
Travis (03:19):
Yeah, it was in Men in Black.
You were mentioning it couldhave been anything that they saw
.
It could have been the, and yousaid, flatbush monster okay,
well, close enough let me findexactly what it says.
Oh yeah, you said it could havejust been a owl in a tree.
It could have been a flatbushmonster.
Josh (03:38):
Okay, and that correlates exactly very good, very cool,
very cool for a very cool thingfor me to say yeah I think at
the time my wife was goingthrough she had had a surgery
and her surgeon was really intocryptids and they were talking
about it and my wife let me knowand she's like, well, you know,
if you have a conversation withmy surgeon outside of, you know
(03:59):
my surgery, he's really intothis.
So maybe bone up a little biton it, and so I did, and I think
that was-.
Travis (04:06):
You were trying to impress a surgeon.
Yeah, man, okay.
Josh (04:09):
No, that's cool, I'm an idiot, and so when I'm talking
to a smart person you want tolook smart, I want to look smart
.
Travis (04:15):
Yeah, I get that.
Josh (04:16):
Yeah, I do like research, you do.
Travis (04:29):
So, yeah, that time frame, the men in black episode
doing my own independent cryptidresearch and I just wanted to
bring it up on the podcast tosound like, uh, like I was doing
some work, but you forgot allof it, absolutely every second
of it.
Yep, well, perfect.
So the flatwoods monster.
So we watched small townmonsters small town monsters
yeah that's the youtube channel,the company, and I thought they
did phenomenal that was good.
Josh (04:44):
Yeah, they talked to the May family.
Travis (04:46):
Yeah, they traveled to Flatwoods, Braxton County.
They interviewed a lot ofpeople that were original
witnesses.
They went to exact locations oras close as they could get.
I mean, for a smaller companyto go that big, I thought they
did amazing For this story.
There's not a lot of reallygood media or documentaries or
(05:08):
anything about just theFlatwoods monster, so them going
this hard on it it was great.
Josh (05:13):
I applaud them.
So if you're interested, smalltown monsters.
Travis (05:16):
Yep, Small town monsters , the Flatwoods monster.
A legacy of fear is what it'scalled.
Josh (05:22):
Okay, one of the interesting things about that
video was and we'll cover this alittle more in the dossier is
that this thing was only seenreally like once or twice, like
this group of people, and thenanother family saw it and then
it became kind of like aregional folklore.
Travis (05:37):
Yeah.
Josh (05:37):
But they said that the noxious mist will melt skin from
your body and leave you nothingbut bones, which is really
funny.
Like they just created this outof whole cloth.
Huh, the people that witness it.
The dog supposedly died likevomiting itself to death, but
then you talk to the mace andthey were like no, that didn't
actually happen.
Travis (05:56):
Yeah, the dog lived a full life.
Josh (05:57):
Yeah, they're like the dog .
Lived a full life and was outdigging holes out in the.
You know whatever this area foryears?
Travis (06:02):
Yeah Well, in the you know, whatever this area for
years?
Yeah Well, let's get to theencounter.
You want to read it.
Josh (06:07):
Okay, settle in Josh for a little bit and I'm just going
to read straight from thedossier Cool.
On a warm summer evening in thesmall town of Flatwoods, west
Virginia, an urban legend wasborn.
At around 7.15 pm on September12, 1952, three boys, edward and
Fred May, and their friendTommy Heyer, were playing in the
(06:28):
lawn of the FlatwoodsElementary School when they saw
something blaze across the sky.
It looked to be a fireballheaded toward the nearby
hillside.
They watched it as it appearedto crash on a farm owned by a
man named G Bailey Fisher.
So the boys ran to find anadult.
They told Edward's and Fred'smother, kathleen May, what they
saw.
She didn't dismiss them andsaid she gathered up her sons,
(06:50):
edward and Fred, their friendTommy and a 17-year-old National
Guardsman named Gene Lemon.
Being a small town, two otherlocal kids, neil Nunley and
Ronnie Shaver, heard what washappening and joined them
Together.
The group set off toward thehill with the family dog.
They climbed up the slopetoward the landing site.
The air grew thicker.
The further they went, the morethey could smell something foul
(07:13):
, like sulfur or burning oil.
The dog ran ahead into the darktrees.
Then it barked and suddenlystopped.
Gene Lemon, holding a flashlight, moved toward the spot where
the dog was and in the shadow ofthe trees, something moved.
Gene raised the beam and whatthey saw would haunt them
forever.
(07:33):
There, standing among the trees, was a figure.
It stood at least 10 feet tall.
Its face was shaped like theace of spades.
At the center, two glowinggreen eyes, unblinking, stared
back.
The body was dark red, withwhat looked like clawed hands
protruding from long arms.
Below the torso a dark metalliccasing flared out like a skirt
(07:57):
Around the creature.
A thick, noxious mist swirled.
The smell of sulfur filledtheir lungs.
It emitted a low mechanicalhissing sound.
The dog bolted away.
One of the boys wet his pants.
Gene Lemon screamed and droppedthe flashlight as he fell
backwards.
The group, nauseous andterrified, turned and ran to
safety.
What they saw would sparknational headlines, official
(08:18):
investigations and decades ofspeculation.
But for the people who werethere that night there was no
doubt they saw a monster.
Travis (08:25):
I think the most important thing that we need to
focus on is the wetting of thepants.
Josh (08:30):
If you are going to investigate something, no matter
what it is, always bring achange of pants.
Travis (08:36):
Why not Better be safe?
Josh (08:38):
Better be safe than embarrassed.
That's what I always say.
Yep, it's the only tattoo Ihave Right at the base of your
back, I'll never tell where itis Right at the base of my back.
Yeah, exactly.
Travis (08:48):
Yep.
Josh (08:49):
I did want to say doing some research.
I think I fell in love.
Travis (08:53):
With the Flatwoods Monster.
Josh (08:54):
Uh-huh, I went down a very weird rabbit hole looking up
sexy fan art.
Travis (09:00):
Oh, that is weird.
Josh (09:01):
It was confusing for me.
Travis (09:04):
Sexy fan art of the Flatwoods Monster.
Josh (09:06):
Uh-huh, and there's a lot of it out there.
Travis (09:09):
Okay.
Josh (09:10):
It started.
When we first started doingresearch for this after the quiz
, I had no idea what this thinglooked like and one of the
depictions was like and I thinkI sent it to you was like a
depiction of the Flatwoodsmonster in the Marilyn Monroe
over the air grate and I waslike, huh interesting.
I wonder how much more of thisis out there.
There's a lot Spoiler alert.
(09:32):
There is a lot, so I'll besending this to Josh.
Travis (09:39):
Maybe we could have some links in our show notes, and if
you guys want to send us somesexy fan art, do it.
Travis is a fan.
Josh (09:47):
I'm a yeah'm.
It was very confusing, like Isaid, wow, I think I'm in love
well, I'm glad we have thispodcast where we can unpack that
until we talk about anothercryptid and I go down another
similar rabbit hole well, I willtry to figure out where to put
this in the show.
That's why I had just had toget this off my chest.
I don't know where it's gonnafall in the show show.
Travis (10:04):
Yeah, well, we can figure it out.
It's crazy All this happens andthere was nothing in movies,
media or comics about aliens ormonsters at the time.
Josh (10:16):
Like this is all fresh.
You're right, this was thefirst time that any alien or
monster had appeared in popularculture at the time.
Travis (10:22):
Well, name some.
Thing.
I mean, you sound like you'redoubting me.
What was there?
Josh (10:27):
Well, there was War of the Worlds, plan 9 from Outer Space
.
There was the work of HG Wells.
Heard of him, yeah, hmm.
Travis (10:34):
I guess yeah.
Josh (10:41):
Flying saucers had become such a big part of, like,
b-movie cinema at this time, sothis is 1952.
Cinema at this time, so this is1952.
We also have the Cold War.
That is like very much buildingup, so the Cold War beginning
after World War II.
I don't think that the paranoiaof the Cold War had quite
reached rural West Virginia, soI don't feel like that was a
part of like them being scaredabout aliens or whatever.
But you know it was a big thingin popular culture.
(11:01):
I don't know when the TwilightZone started.
May have been around this time,yeah, because I mean the
originals were black and white.
Well, I know, josh, you canmake.
Well yeah, I know you can makeblack and white, but you can
make black and white now.
Travis (11:12):
Did they stay black and white when color existed, or I
just?
Josh (11:16):
assumed.
Oh, so this was years beforethe Twilight Zone.
Twilight Zone started in 1959.
Okay, so we talked aboutKenneth Arnold on a previous
episode.
Yeah, this was just a coupleyears after the Kenneth Arnold
incident, that was 1947.
Travis (11:31):
A few months after Roswell.
Roswell was big too.
It truly was the golden age ofsci-fi.
I mean, they were just goinghard on aliens and monsters,
yeah, and this is sounds like acombo of potentially both If it
came from a fireball falling outof the sky.
Josh (11:48):
Right.
Is that what they said?
Travis (11:49):
They saw like a big ball of fire.
Josh (11:51):
Who's?
Travis (11:51):
they the boys.
Before they went and got anadult, they saw a fireball, just
a big round ball, and then theywent and got some adults.
They came back to investigatethe craft.
Then that's where they saw thecreature, the alien maybe.
Josh (12:05):
so yes, uh, maybe the way that documentary that we watched
ended was with the may boyssaying I don't care what you
guys believe.
We saw this thing, there are alot of questions and the media
did kind of pick it up and runwith it like our dog, like we
talked about.
Their dog was still alive.
The media had said their momjumped over a six foot fence and
(12:27):
they're like my mom wasathletic but there's no way she
was jumping over a six footfence.
Travis (12:31):
Yeah, the media was just trying to get sensationalized
yeah.
So that's what was great Cause,these guys, these original kids
who are now old men, theystopped talking about it years
and years ago.
So it was cool to actually seethem interviewed.
They stopped talking about itbecause first it did get
sensationalized and then theysaw what they saw.
A lot of people got upset aboutit and were angry with them,
(12:55):
yeah.
And so they're like well, I'mjust going to stop talking about
it.
Either going to believe or not.
Josh (12:59):
Yeah, and then the town was like yoink Sutton or
whatever.
The town was where they live it.
Yeah, and then the town waslike yoink Sutton or whatever.
The town was where they live.
It was like yoink.
Okay, fine, we're just going totake all of the story and
mythology and we're going tocapitalize on it and we're going
to create the Flatwoods MonsterMuseum.
We're going to have like a Afestival.
A festival, sure, a paradewe're going to have, like a
scavenger hunt that you can do.
Travis (13:25):
And guess what?
Josh (13:25):
you win with the scavenger hunt.
Travis (13:26):
What A fucking sticker.
Yeah, I'm going to get thatsticker.
Well, and this is around thesame area as the Mothman which
is uh, which has anotherfestival.
Josh (13:35):
Yeah, is that West Virginia also?
Travis (13:36):
Or is that North Carolina?
It's West Virginia, okay.
Josh (13:39):
My wife would kill me if I didn't know where it was from.
That's her favorite cryptid.
Ooh, kill me if I didn't knowwhere it was from.
That's her favorite, cryptid.
Travis (13:45):
Ooh, thank God she doesn't listen.
Yep, these witnesses, the Mays,yeah, may, yeah, the May boys.
It just seems like a very realreaction for them to want to
stop talking about it, that kindof solidified, that they did
see something.
Yeah, and they're not lying,they refer to the guardsman
(14:07):
Lemon as that Lemon Boy, which Ithought was so funny In that
documentary.
I wanted to call out that namebecause it sounds like a fake
name.
Josh (14:12):
They're like that Lemon Boy.
He sure had a lot to say aboutthis.
Travis (14:16):
It was like real lemon.
Josh (14:17):
Yeah, it was so funny.
So we're talking about like agroup of people right that saw
this.
Travis (14:22):
Yeah, A family, a friend and then a young acquaintance
who was in the national guard um.
Josh (14:29):
Should we describe what this monster looks like?
It was described about likehuge boobs, right no?
Travis (14:38):
you described it well in the story a sexy smile.
Josh (14:41):
I don't think you need to take creative liberty and a
skirt.
Travis (14:45):
Metal legs.
I like it right.
Yeah, there was mention that itcould possibly be robotic or
missile-like or that was just aversion I saw in my own research
.
Yeah, and in my research therewas mention of it looked like a
B-52 bomb, like it had the shapeof that Pointy kind of on top,
metal-ish, like maybe that skirtwas metal hell yeah, man, this
(15:08):
is keep telling me about itfunky.
It was 10 feet tall, face shapelike ace of spades, two glowing
green eyes, unblinking between7 and 17 feet.
Josh (15:20):
Yeah, it's how it's sometimes described as well.
Travis (15:23):
But yeah, like yeah, the original witnesses.
They compared it to a tree thatit was standing next to, and
that tree is no longer there,hmm, curious.
Well, it was there for a longtime but it rotted eventually.
I mean trees, not all of themmake it, sorry to say, did it?
Josh (15:38):
rot, yes, or did the gas get it?
Travis (15:43):
I don't know, because it's not there.
Josh (15:45):
You can't ask the tree.
Travis (15:46):
Nope, but they knew the approximate height of the tree
and that, and so that's kind ofwhere we get the height.
Josh (15:52):
Or the approximate owl in the tree.
Travis (15:54):
Yes, and the trees do look spooky over there.
They look like arms.
Josh (15:59):
So I watched this video with my wife and I just kept
remarking how beautiful it looksthere.
Travis (16:04):
Oh, absolutely.
Josh (16:05):
Very green.
Travis (16:06):
That's where Fallout 76 is.
It's just fun walking throughthat kind of area and they did a
really good job recreating WestVirginia.
The Flatwoods monster is inthat game and I completely
forgot and I did play that part.
Josh (16:20):
There's a video that said that they were also in Zelda.
I don't remember.
Travis (16:24):
Yeah, I saw that too and I wrote that in my notes.
I was like Zelda and I put aquestion mark.
Yeah, but the Japanese havereally taken a liking to the
Flywood Monster.
Zelda is a Japanese game.
Josh (16:36):
Okay, so it's in Majora's Mask.
Travis (16:39):
That was the really really hard one, wasn't it?
Josh (16:42):
Yeah, it was a pretty complicated game.
Travis (16:45):
Like the hardcore gamers played it.
Yeah, that was right afterOcarina of Time.
Okay, so Well, you mentionedthe immediate aftermath, so
there was local law enforcementin this small town.
Josh (16:56):
Yeah, and what?
Travis (16:57):
did they find?
Well, when the sheriff and hisdeputy arrived at the site
shortly after the monster wasgone, there was no sign of a
creature, no craft, no tracks,no indentations or anything To
the law.
There was no evidence, therewas nothing unusual.
They just assumed that it wasjust some frightened kids.
Josh (17:14):
And a mom and a guardsman.
Travis (17:16):
In a spooky woods, yeah, which they did spooky.
Josh (17:19):
I mean, this is Septemberember, so at seven
o'clock it would probably havebeen pretty dark.
This is when the sun is gettingpretty low in the sky shadows
are abound, yep I mean the sunstarts setting at that time, at
about, you know, 6, 30, 7o'clock so this is right around
sunset, if not a little afterthe twilight time, and so if
(17:41):
you're walking around on thewoods, especially then when
there's not a lot ofstreetlights, you know you're on
the woods.
this is 1952.
Yeah, there's a lot out therethat could probably really scare
you.
Travis (17:50):
But children don't have imagination.
Josh (17:52):
But I mean they were.
They were their mom, Notoriginally.
No, they brought their mom out,they told her mom.
Travis (17:57):
They came back, so the kids saw the thing they saw the
thing.
Josh (18:00):
But they didn't go out in the woods, no, initially.
Travis (18:02):
They went and got an adult.
They saw the thing through thesky.
Good boys.
Josh (18:05):
Yep.
They went and got their mom andthen brought some of their
neighborhood friends along to goout and explore this area.
Travis (18:11):
Yeah Right, good for the mom though.
Josh (18:16):
We haven't mentioned that, that she didn't going through a
divorce and was probably justlooking for anything to do.
Travis (18:27):
Right.
Josh (18:27):
I don't know she was like.
I mean, she's a mom, she'sprobably busy had a handful of
mama's little helpers and hertwo and a half tumblers of vodka
and decided to go out on thislittle adventure with her kids.
Travis (18:35):
I mean, we're both parents.
If my kid, I would not goinvestigate with my kids.
I'd just be like, nah, we'refine, just stay inside.
Josh (18:42):
I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just make sure you
take your phone with you.
Travis (18:45):
So good for her.
Josh (18:46):
Yeah, I think that's a good parent, not dismissing Sure
, just looking for a littleadventure, break up monotony,
maybe find a new daddy for herkids.
Huh, I don't know.
Hmm, maybe an alien.
Yeah, maybe an owl.
Travis (19:00):
Oh, so this happened.
News outlets picked it up.
Well, first it spread word ofmouth.
These kids were talking aboutit at school.
It was some spicy recess goss.
Josh (19:10):
And, as we talked about, kids are reliable narrators.
Travis (19:14):
Always News outlets, the local papers, ran the story,
then national news outletspicked it up.
That's kind of how the tale ofthe Flatwoods monster exploded
almost overnight.
But yeah, it just got reallypopular.
And then Kathleen May, the mom,and Gene Lemon.
They were on an interview onCBS about this.
Their accounts were detailedand very consistent and they
(19:36):
described the same eeriecreature and the same foul smell
and the same unnatural mist.
And then magazines Gary Barkerpublished the smell and the same
unnatural mist.
And then magazines Gary Barkerpublished the Monster and the
Saucer.
It's in Fate magazine.
The tagline was True Accountsof the Strange and Unknown.
That was in January 1953.
By Gary Barker.
So this blew up really fast,which is pretty wild in a world
(19:58):
with no social media or fastconnections.
Kids and a family see somethingand now the whole world knows.
Pretty wild In a world with nosocial media or fast connections
, kids and a family seesomething and now the whole
world knows.
Pretty cool I would be proud ofmyself For spreading this, this
rumor.
Josh (20:10):
It's not a rumor, just spreading your true personal
experience.
Travis (20:14):
Yeah.
So the spotlight came and withit the skeptics who questioned
the motives of the whole thingand just said it was a hoax, the
May family, like I mentionedbefore.
They eventually just kind ofwithdrew from the whole
conversation and years later EdMay said I'd like to forget the
whole thing.
And that's one of the thingsthat I've mentioned.
(20:35):
A lot is, why are these peopleI mean, I don't think there's a
huge group of people that wouldmake these things up.
There's no benefit to it and itusually ends up just kind of
messing with their lives andruining it, and they always
usually regret speaking up.
Josh (20:49):
Yes, and.
But I also think, like some ofthe stuff is situational and
maybe they didn't see something,but they were so committed to
the shared experience they hadand then, years later, they're
just like you know what.
Maybe I'm misremembering it,but the best way for me to
handle this is I would just saylike I'd rather the whole
experience didn't happen at all.
Travis (21:10):
And there might be some people that way.
These guys, absolutely ithappened to them.
They're like yeah, it happened,but I just wish I could forget
it all, because it sucks Like Icould forget it all, because it
sucks like I can't have normalconversations with people.
People either believe me or not.
Josh (21:23):
They seem whatever I say isn't going to change that.
They seem to be doing just fineI mean they're okay I mean that
the guy was able to afford acallaway hat, and I know those
aren't cheap well, he might bedoing well for himself then
that's my mark.
Success is whether or not you'rewearing a golf hat yeah I think
that they're fine, but I dofeel that enough time had passed
(21:44):
that maybe they were doubtingwhat they saw, and I'm not
saying that when they said Iwish to forget the whole
experience that they're saying.
You know, this got to be too hotfor me.
I just think that, you know,maybe they wish that they didn't
experience this thing, thatthey'd experienced whatever it
is that led them down this path.
Right, they didn't experiencethis thing, that they'd
experienced whatever it is thatled them down this path, right.
(22:05):
And I think that's the casewith a lot of these instances
where you're so heightened andyou feel so afraid and you're
going to create this thing inyour head and years later, like
as you're talking your waythrough it, you're going to feel
a little, maybe embarrassedthat you had shared something
that had scared you so bad.
And you know you may havemisseen something, because, I
mean, this instance was minuteslike minutes long, right, they
(22:26):
saw something and then everybodyjust poof, took off, everybody
went running off, like theTravis Walton incident.
There were lights off in thewoods and then the driver of the
car just sped away and nobodycould really capture all of the
details.
And I feel like fear will dothat to you.
Travis (22:42):
They all kind of go that way.
I mean, the aliens move quick,or the spacecrafts, or the
situations.
I mean most situations in lifehappen quick, so you're not
going to remember the details ofit Not necessarily, but you can
also have some heightened senseand you do remember everything.
Josh (22:58):
I don't think so.
But we're not talking about analien situation.
We're talking about somethingthat could have potentially been
anything An owl could havepotentially been some kind of
animal up in a tree, maybe evena raccoon, could have been the
way the sun was setting, the waylight was playing off the tree
or leaves, or anything like that.
It could be any number ofthings.
(23:19):
But this experience happened tothese folks so fast.
I mean, the mom ran out ofthere and was later reported
jumping over a six foot fence,which the kids say didn't happen
.
But even that was misreported.
Travis (23:32):
Well, I mean when we talk about the reporting.
Josh (23:34):
It's not misreporting.
Travis (23:35):
It's sensationalizing.
You know they're trying to getreaders.
I mean they still do that today.
Josh (23:44):
Right, but these kids they read those reports and they're
going to look at what thatreport is and then slowly
they're going to read thatreport and that's going to
eventually maybe replace thatmemory.
Travis (23:49):
I mean, we just heard from the witnesses and their
memory is very sound.
It lined up and they told uswhat was true and what wasn't.
Josh (23:57):
This video that we watched was in 2017.
So this was 60 years, 65.
65.
Yeah, after this event hadhappened.
Travis (24:05):
Yeah.
Josh (24:05):
There's no way they're going to have total recall as
far as this incident.
Travis (24:09):
I mean it depends on.
I mean I have some dreams thatwere really traumatic and I
remember them vividly, and theywere 20 years ago.
Josh (24:16):
Okay, there's no way they're going to remember the
specifics of the 65 year oldmemory.
I mean, we don't even.
There's no way they're going toremember the specifics of the
65-year-old memory.
I mean, we don't even Wellthey've recounted it a lot.
We can't even.
No, they gave up.
They stopped talking about it.
Travis (24:25):
Well, they stopped talking about it, but before
that they talked about it awhole bunch.
So if I talked about thisexperience with my friends that
were part of it, and I talkedabout it a lot, and we've talked
about this before on very clear, you're going to start to
describe things the way youdescribe them to your friends,
and then that's going to be yourmemory.
Josh (24:43):
That doesn't necessarily mean that that's a true memory.
That's exactly how it happened.
You're going to start tellingyour friends this experience.
Oh my god, my mom jumped over afence.
Oh my god, the dog died fromvomiting.
Oh my god, there were actuallysix people there.
One of them died because theskin was melted off.
Travis (24:57):
There was nothing but bones left but you're saying
statements that aren'tnecessarily founded in truth.
No, they are founded.
This is like no you're sayingin science you're saying that
this is what's happening, orthese people.
Josh (25:08):
No, I'm just saying remember to totally rely on
these two people's memory.
It's not reliable, and to saythat this is a fact is not true.
This is just an opinion thatthey experienced.
This is how they're recountingtheir experience.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat there's a flatwood monster,
which I think would be fuckinggreat.
I love cryptids, but thatdoesn't mean that what they
(25:29):
experienced was an actualotherworldly experience.
I can respect that there areother elements and, like we're
talking about, this is a 65 yearold memory.
Well, when you, when you givefrom a very heightened like less
, probably less than fiveminutes.
Travis (25:42):
Well, what I'm saying is when you give a stamp statement
to saying that a lot of thesepeople that experience these
things are not rememberingcorrectly or they don't talk
about it because their opinionchanges.
We don't know that, and I feellike this is a really good case
where their view and opiniondidn't change, like this is a
(26:04):
really good case where theirview and opinion didn't change.
What changed was they didn'twant to be trying to convince
people or anything like that,because they said it doesn't
matter what we say, you'reeither going to believe or not,
and we're sick and tired of thatconversation, and it wasn't
about their memories changing oranything like that.
They stopped because theydidn't like the conversation
anymore, and I think that makesit a little bit more reliable,
(26:24):
instead of their opinionschanging or the stories changing
, which we have seen in the past.
That's why this just seemsthere's a little more truth that
they did experience something.
Josh (26:34):
I think they experienced something, and that's personally
.
That's where I'm going to givethem credit.
Travis (26:40):
Yeah, Well, let's talk about additional sightings.
So prior to September 12thwhich FYI, September 12th is the
festival date In Braxton Countyyeah, If you ever want to go to
that, Audra Harper sees a tallshadow figure rise from a fiery
location.
And then, September 13th,George and Edith Snitowski
(27:02):
experienced car trouble whichwe've seen before Betty and
Barney rubble.
They've experienced car troublenear the Flatwoods and they
reported smelling sulfur, seeingglowing clawed figure touch the
car and the car restartsmysteriously after the figure
vanishes.
Josh (27:17):
Yeah, so in that video that we watched it was a little
more harrowing.
The way it was told in thisvideo is that the husband was
outside, maybe thrown a whiz orsomething like that, and had
rushed back to the car andcouldn't get it started and the
mother was putting the kids onthe floorboard, saw the monster
and he heard her screaming frominside and the monster was
coming and then he ran inside.
Travis (27:47):
They got the kids on the floor and then the thing
touched the car and then theyhid, it was gone.
And then when they looked upagain, it was gone, yeah, and
then the car started.
So he just came and fixed thecar.
Josh (27:58):
Yeah, I mean like pretty nice Space mechanic.
Yeah, just trying to help.
What a sweetie.
Travis (28:04):
Yeah, makes me fall in love with it all over again it
is interesting having seeing afiery thing around the same
location, which is what the kidssaw, and then a different
family seeing a creature thatlooked similar so let's talk
about that.
Josh (28:18):
There was a meteor seen in baltimore, near there, very
close geographically, yeah, inthe sky I mean it is.
I mean all those states on theEast Coast are so close together
.
Travis (28:29):
They are.
Josh (28:30):
So the geographic distance from Baltimore, maryland, to
this place in West Virginia islike half of Idaho.
Idaho is such a big state.
It's like as they were drawingand moving west they got real
fucking lazy with the mapdrawing and they're just like I
don't give a shit anymore.
There is still so much land outhere.
This entire stretch is Montana.
This is all Wyoming.
So the states as you move westget considerably bigger.
Travis (28:53):
Well, and this is also what the US Air Force concluded.
This was their reasoning andexcuses their official
explanations Not excuses,reasons, sorry, yes, yes,
deductions, sure.
And they also said it waslikely a barn owl perched on a
tree.
Mm-hmm, just seems like lazywork.
Josh (29:14):
Well, I mean, there are a lot of barn owls.
Travis (29:15):
Yeah.
Josh (29:15):
Great horn owls you know are very prominent, especially
out in the woods yeah, they are.
And you know are very prominent, especially out in the woods.
Yeah, they are, and they're bigand they're big, creepily big.
Travis (29:24):
We went to an animal sanctuary in Texas and it was
awkward.
They have an energy when you'rearound them and it's a
noticeable energy.
They're a bird of prey.
Josh (29:35):
They're terrifying.
Travis (29:36):
Yeah, but also calming.
I don't know, it's weird.
Josh (29:39):
So yeah, there are a lot of owls in West Virginia a
barred owl, a great horned owl,long-eared owl, Ooh, a snowy owl
those are some big birds.
Travis (29:53):
The ones we saw was like the biggest owls in existence
and there's three of them on athing and they looked fake.
It was weird.
They didn't move.
It was one of the mostfascinating things I've seen.
Josh (29:58):
It weird, they're incredible birds yeah, but you
know, maybe that was it, maybethat's what they saw possibly.
Travis (30:05):
I mean there were skeptics saying it was anxiety
and hysteria distorting theirperception, which you've
mentioned before.
The obvious it could have beenshadows and branches and trees
creating an optical illusion.
The description does kind ofalign with an owl, possibly like
.
Like, if I'm going to playdevil's advocate, if everything
(30:25):
aligned perfectly, like theshadows and the branches and
then the owl and a tree, I couldsee a kid thinking like holy
fucking shit, this is somethingcrazy.
Josh (30:36):
So are all of the depictions from their kids'.
Does the mom describe what itlooks like?
Travis (30:42):
does yeah, they all saw it and they all have similar
descriptions, including thenational guard guy the lemon boy
yeah, and then the nausea andpanic were symptoms of
overexertion and fear.
So it is a big possibility.
But then having a couple othersin different situations, having
similar experiences with thefireball on a separate day where
(31:04):
the meteor is already come andgone, and one of the guys
described the ball.
He said it just kind of likegot more red but less bright and
then it faded away like upuntil a pinpoint.
So maybe that was a meteor,yeah, maybe.
So you can always be skepticalabout everything.
Josh (31:24):
Or you can always just believe everything.
Travis (31:25):
But just the combination of all the stories we've gone
through and the thousands morethat are out there.
Yeah, there's probably a lotthat aren't real, but there's so
many that you can't deny thatsomething's going on eventually.
Josh (31:42):
there's so much I mean you can?
I don't want to prove you can.
Travis (31:46):
But it's just like when you have enough puzzle pieces.
If there's enough, you can seea pretty big picture and
something's happening, sure it'slike?
Josh (31:54):
it's like the game of battleship, where you are
guessing coordinates right andyou don't know where the
person's ship is, and you'replacing pins on your side.
You're developing an idea ofwhere their ships are right
Based on the information that'sgiven to you, but this we don't
have.
There's not enough information.
It was a handful of kids, a mom, a 17 year old and then maybe a
(32:15):
very heightened family, andthat's it.
Those are the only realdepictions we have of this, and
so there's not enough realinformation, and so what you get
is they created a narrativearound.
It was well, the ship landedhere and then took off, and now
it's gone.
Travis (32:30):
Yeah, and I just think I mean concluding this for me
what I believe.
This one I think yes, and Ithink it is alien.
Just because of the ship andpotential metal.
I think, with all the otherstories going on, I'm coming
into it already believing thataliens exist.
And why would I not believesomething that I mean?
(32:53):
Yeah, it's firsthandexperiences.
You can't prove it, but themnot really wanting to talk about
it seems like a natural thing.
If something like that happenedto me, I'd be a little
skeptical about talking about ittoo, just because of backlash.
I think that I'm going tobelieve because there's a lot of
other proof, not necessarilyjust in this story, but just in
(33:14):
all the other stories, and thecombination is just like yeah,
this is totally plausible.
So that's where I fall.
Josh (33:21):
I can see that.
I can see where somebody likeyou who wants to believe so
badly, is going to see sometruth in this.
It's not that I want to seebadly, it's just you would want
to see it so you want to believeso bad that it kind of skews
the rational part of your brainwhere you can think about these
things skeptically or at leastlike rationally, like where you
(33:42):
you can look at all information.
That's there you want I to.
I know you want to believe andI think that that's very sweet.
Travis (33:48):
It's not about that.
It's just there's so many factsand so many things out there
that it would be weird notbelieving.
Josh (33:55):
I don't think so, Because humans have created dragons and
weaver and all these fantasycharacters based on fear and
things that they've seen out inthe woods unicorns these all
these things are part of, like,human narrative history and I
think this just aligns itselfwith that, like people seeing
things out in the woods andgetting very afraid and trying
to piece together what they'veseen.
(34:15):
I think humans have like such along history of recording these
kinds of instances with animalsand wildlife and things that
are foreign to them.
Travis (34:23):
And we have a long history of reporting spaceships
too, and those accounts haven'tchanged.
Josh (34:29):
We're still seeing similar things today, so it's not off
base to think that this is real,but the accounting of
spaceships is not as long and asvaried as like fantastical
creatures, right?
Travis (34:38):
Yeah, but we're not seeing creatures now or cryptids
, but we are still seeingcryptids and spaceships now,
Well, that's what is a cryptid,if not a fantastical creature?
Right, but we're still seeingthose.
You know, or people are stillseeing those, these fantasy,
mythical creatures you'retalking about dragons and
unicorns, and cheese goblins,cheddar goblins, cheddar goblins
(34:59):
.
Josh (34:59):
No, it's just transitioning to Loch Ness
monsters and Sasquatches andYetis and Chupacabras and things
of that nature, things thatlike maybe a little more
socially acceptable.
Everybody has decided that, youknow, there's not a giant snake
in the ocean that's going togobble you up and honestly, I
don't believe in a lot ofcryptids out there.
Travis (35:21):
Actually, when we took this test, I thought I'm
probably going to be on theskeptical side of this, but but
once finding, out that-.
Josh (35:27):
But then as soon as they said aliens, then you're like oh
, I'm in, I'm back in.
Travis (35:30):
It made a little more sense for me.
Josh (35:32):
And it's not delusion.
Well, what is a Sasquatch?
But just like a bunch ofChewbacca's walking around in
the woods.
Travis (35:38):
Chewbacca's are aliens, so it's real.
Yeah, no, I'm of the sound mindfrom the facts that I've
learned.
I don't believe everything Imay come across that I do, but I
don't always believe everything.
I am skeptical.
I was skeptical of aliens for areally long time and I saw
enough things and encounters andI've watched and listened to a
(36:00):
lot of skeptics about it too,and it seems that there are
holes in some of the stuff theysay.
But there's just some thingsthat are unexplainable and the
logical explanation would besomething otherworldly.
Okay, that's kind of where Iland on this.
Where do you?
Josh (36:19):
I want to believe that this was an otherworldly
experience.
I like the idea of having, likeI don't know, aliens among us,
right?
I just don't think there'senough in this specific instance
to really verify it for me.
Travis (36:27):
Yeah.
Josh (36:27):
So as far as our rating goes, I'm probably a low, maybe.
Travis (36:33):
Okay.
Josh (36:34):
And you're at a yes.
Travis (36:35):
I'm at a yes, maybe high , maybe just because yes is like
, oh, absolutely Fact.
If that's what yes means, Idon't know.
I don't know, but we won't know.
No, it's one of those things,and most of these are, and maybe
that's just how it's going tobe with aliens, because it is a
highly controversial topic andit is bonkers could have been
(36:56):
cold war panic fueled by sci-fishows I don't agree with shadows
, I don't agree with the coldwar panic thing.
Josh (37:01):
It's just helping move the conversation along and I don't
think that it touched rural,rural West Virginia the way it
may have touched some more urban.
Travis (37:09):
Yeah, One commenter on the YouTube video said that he
thinks it was testing for thejet pack and that would explain
the gas, the smell, the glow,the metal, the hovering because
I don't think we talked aboutthe hovering, but they mentioned
that the creature was floating.
Yeah, it was floating and thehumming sound.
(37:29):
So someone said thatpotentially could be it and that
was around the time they weretesting that.
But why would they be testingit in some backwoods, nowhere
place?
Josh (37:37):
Because they can get away with it?
Maybe Because then they havesomeone like me coming along 65
years later and saying it's anowl and paranoia.
See, so it worked.
Maybe that was the whole point.
Yeah, if you were going to testsomewhere, like you said, why
would you test it in such arural area where it's going to
be really?
Travis (37:55):
hard to bring equipment to.
Yeah, that's the only downfallin that thing, and if you're
trucking in equipment that'sgoing to be noticed by people.
Yeah, and you would test it in asecure place, especially at the
beginning of a Cold War, wheresecrets are everything.
Yeah, you would test it in anarea where no one is allowed.
It's a really good idea.
It just doesn't line upcompletely.
Because, why, because, why?
(38:16):
Yeah, well, thank you forlistening.
That is this episode.
We're not done yet, because westill have our award-winning
quizzes.
We're not done yet because westill have our award-winning
quizzes.
We don't know what the quizzesare until we open the quiz.
Oh, I don't like it.
This quiz is about ley lines.
(38:38):
I remember you mentioned theseat one point and you instantly
like no, those aren't real.
I don't remember that.
Maybe I dreamed it.
So, ley lines I know a littlebit about it.
I've heard them mentioned acouple times, but I don't know a
lot.
Okay, so this is what we'regoing to talk about next week.
Uh ley lines let's get to it.
(38:59):
Did you open the quiz?
Josh (39:00):
oh, I'm in it, yep okay, and lay is l-e-.
Right, not like I will lay withyou, yeah.
Or like lay a L E I a princess.
Travis (39:11):
Leia, who is an alien, I guess, if you think about it on
earth terms.
Josh (39:17):
here I mean if you, if you were a human born on Mars, you
would essentially be a Martianand not an earth thing, and that
would make you alien.
Travis (39:23):
Yeah, interesting.
All right, first question whatis a ley line?
Is it a a fault line whereearthquakes originate, uh-huh.
Good b a mystical straight linebelieved to connect ancient and
sacred sites across thelandscape.
Good c an ancient road systemused exclusively by
extraterrestrials.
D a trail left behind by laymoths during migration uh, good,
(39:50):
yeah, no idea.
Josh (39:51):
No idea what a ley line is really.
Uh, I think that it's amystical straight line believed
to connect ancient and sacredsites across landscape that is
what I believe as well.
Travis (40:00):
But the ancient road system used exclusively for
extraterrestrials, that could beit as well.
Hmm, potentially, hmm, but I'mgoing to say a mystic straight
line yeah, okay.
Next question what eventinspired Alfred Watkins to first
conceive of ley lines?
Is it, a a revelatory dreamabout Stonehenge Great?
(40:22):
B a realization in athunderstorm at Avebury?
C a revelation while viewing amap on a hill?
Or?
D a mysterious letter from adruid?
Josh (40:31):
society.
Oh, druid, I like that.
I'm going to say a revelatorydream about Stonehenge.
Travis (40:39):
I'm going to say a mysterious letter from a druid
society.
Josh (40:43):
Oh, boy, I love that.
Because I think they were on tosomething I love, that I think
that's a good answer.
Travis (40:49):
Okay.
Next one who famously suggestedthat ley lines might be landing
strips for alien spacecraft?
A carl sagan, the astronomer.
B tony wedd, an ex-raf pilot.
C matt parker, a mathematician,or d giorgio sucgio Tsoukalos,
the aliens hair guy.
Yeah, the ancient aliens guy.
(41:09):
Yeah, who's done really greatwork in the field of alienology
and all that and hairdressing.
Yeah, he created the messy hair.
Josh (41:18):
That's who I'm going to say.
Is Giorgio Tsoukalos?
Yeah, hair guy.
Travis (41:21):
Okay, I'm going to say I mean I want to say that, but
I'm going to say Carl Sagan, ohboy, okay, no, we'll find out,
all right.
Next question which one of thefollowing historical sites is
not commonly claimed to liealong a ley line?
Josh (41:39):
That was intentionally meant to trip you up that
question, but I did it.
You did it.
You landed the plane,congratulations, thank you.
Travis (41:46):
Is it A Stonehen stonehenge, b the great wall of
china, c chichen itza or deaster island?
I'm gonna say wall of china.
I'm gonna say that too, becausethat one wasn't really uh
sacred or ceremonial, it wasmore of a protection thing it
was a boundary set to keepinvading hordes out the
mongolians.
Right, yeah, okay.
Next question which of thefollowing is not a name
(42:09):
traditionally linked to leylines in indigenous or cultural
belief systems?
Is it a dragon veins, b ghostroads, c spirit lines or d broom
tracks?
Oh man, this one's I don't know.
Josh (42:23):
I track seems like it's so fake.
Yeah, that that's what I wasthinking.
But, like who knows thereasoning behind it.
I'm going to say dragon veins.
Travis (42:32):
I'm going to say broom tracks.
Okay, I'm just going to go forit, because I just don't know
how that could.
Josh (42:37):
Fall for it, huh.
Travis (42:39):
Yeah.
Josh (42:40):
Walk right into the trap, so what?
Travis (42:41):
would a broom track be I ?
Josh (42:43):
have no idea.
Travis (42:44):
I don't know when you're brooming, and maybe there's so
much dirt that it leaves a trailon either side Sure A broom
track.
I don't know.
Josh (42:52):
Like if you're sweeping through a really dusty place,
that first sweep.
Travis (42:55):
Yeah, there's going to be little lines.
Yeah, maybe All right.
Last question which of thefollowing is not commonly
believed to be a vortex or leyline intersection?
Is not commonly believed to bea vortex or ley line
intersection the a sedona,arizona, b glassenbury tour,
england.
C mount fuji, japan, or d timesquare, new york okay, I think
(43:16):
time square is considered one.
Josh (43:19):
Really.
I think so.
That's because it's like acenter of whatever, of culture,
and it's like a center ofwhatever.
Travis (43:24):
Of culture.
Josh (43:24):
And it's been a center for a long time.
Travis (43:27):
Yeah.
Josh (43:28):
Glastonbury, tor, I'm going to say Mount Fuji.
Travis (43:31):
I was thinking that too, because it's just a mountain.
Josh (43:33):
It's just a fucking mountain.
Yeah, like do somethingmountain.
Travis (43:36):
Yeah, get off your high horse.
Josh (43:38):
Yeah Jeez, can you imagine how big that horse would have
to be?
Travis (43:46):
It'd be a high horse.
Yeah, high horse.
Yeah, all right, so I did mountfuji.
Okay, I'm gonna submit.
Yeah, okay, so what is a leyline?
Josh (43:51):
woolly moly we both did terrible we both said it's nice,
you can laugh at yourself ohman, yeah, okay, so line, what
is a ley line?
Travis (44:06):
It is a mystical straight line believed to
connect ancient and sacred sitesacross the landscape.
Got it right, we got it right.
Next one what event inspiredAlfred Watkins to first conceive
of ley lines?
I said a mysterious letter froma druid society.
Josh (44:22):
I said a revelatory dream about Stonehenge, but then I
secretly changed it to a no, Ididn't.
But I looked back up at thatand reread that question and I
thought about changing my answer.
But I didn't want to go backand tell you I was going to
change my answer.
So I stuck with a revelatorydream about Stonehenge, even
though the right one is.
Travis (44:40):
A revelation, while viewing a map.
Josh (44:42):
A map on a hill Yep.
Travis (44:43):
The simplest answer Yep.
A map on a hill Yep.
The simplest answer Yep.
Okay, so we both got that onewrong.
Yeah, who famously suggestedthat ley lines might be a
landing strip for alienspacecraft?
It was the ex-RAF pilot, tonyWett.
Josh (44:56):
I said Carl Sagan, you said alien hair guy.
Yeah, we were wrong.
Yep, tony Wett, maybe we'lllearn more about him next week?
Travis (45:04):
Oh, that would be great.
Which one of the followinghistorical sites is not commonly
claimed to be on the ley line?
Great Wall of China, we bothgot that right Yep, probably for
that same reason, it wasn'tBoundary Hymn.
Yeah, next one, which of thefollowing is not a name
traditionally linked to leylines in indigenous?
Josh (45:18):
or cultural belief system.
Travis (45:30):
I got it right broom tracks okay, and then last one,
which of the following is notcommonly believed to be a vortex
or ley line intersection?
I was so confident about newyork, it was time square, and it
was time square.
So, mount fuji, you can stay onyour high horse.
I guess I'm sorry, it's a tallhorse.
It is Well cool.
I'm really excited.
(45:51):
I don't know a lot, I knowthere's weird.
Josh (45:53):
I don't know shit about fuck.
Travis (45:55):
There's some weird things with them and they line
up with a lot of weird things,and weird things happen in these
lines and we know where theselines are.
I don't know much.
I'm super excited about thisone.
I'm excited to grow my brain,know more and more, sure.
Well, thank you for listening.
If you want to get ahold of us,we have fan mail that you can
reach out to us.
(46:15):
Just on your phone.
Click fan mail in ourdescription and you can message
us and we'll get it.
Yeah, well, talk to you nexttime.
Josh (46:23):
Okay, thanks for listening , bye, bye.
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