May 9, 2025 • 39 mins
Journey back to 1961 as Betty and Barney Hill recount a bizarre encounter in the New Hampshire mountains, complete with strange lights, missing time, and unsettling nightmares. Was it a genuine extraterrestrial event, or could there be earthly explanations for the torn clothes, pink powder, and hypnotic recollections? It's truly an interstellar whodunit into the unknown.
Join the guys as they explore the 'first' widely reported alien abduction case, navigating skepticism, prejudice, and the enduring mystery of what really happened to Betty and Barney.
One thing's for sure, their story left a mark on UFO lore that's still being debated today.
Betty Hill Audio Full Hypnosis Session
Barney Hill Audio Full Hypnosis Session
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh (00:03):
Aliens Aliens, yes.
Travis (00:09):
But maybe no.
Welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no.
I'm Travis and I'm josh, asalways, and this is an
(00:29):
otherworldly podcast, asambiguous as our title.
Okay, so this week on the showwe're kind of diverging from
what we normally talk about withaliens.
We're talking about benny andbarney hill from the flintstones
, right?
So this whole week I've justbeen catching up on my
Flintstones episodes.
I thought it was weird.
Josh (00:47):
This is really uncomfortable, because that's
not what we're talking about.
It's Betty and Barney Hill.
Travis (00:52):
Yeah, Betty and Barney Hill, the Flintstones neighbors.
Josh (00:56):
No, this is a different story.
This is real life.
This isn't cartoon.
Travis (01:00):
Well, I thought that was weird.
Why did you make me watch allthe oh no, I thought it was
funny.
Josh (01:04):
Betty and Barney.
Travis (01:05):
Rubble.
I thought that maybe it was atypo in our oh no.
Josh (01:09):
Well, maybe you can start another podcast about the
Flintstones.
Go episode by episode.
Travis (01:15):
That's what the podcasting world needs is just
more Flintstones content.
Josh (01:18):
Yeah.
Travis (01:19):
There's just not enough out there.
Josh (01:26):
It's a 50 old cartoon one of the longest running cartoons
yeah, I enjoyed it when I was akid, next to the simpsons.
I enjoyed the live actions too.
When I was a kid I triedwatching with my kids it was
hard, you would you sicko no, itwas great so uh should we talk
about?
Travis (01:36):
this is gonna be uncomfortable.
Yeah, I did.
Uh, the wrong amount ofresearch.
Josh (01:40):
Classic travis yeah, so we are talking about betty and
barney hill.
Yeah, and the abduction thereal, honest, true, not faked
abduction of betty and barneyhill yes, you agree?
Travis (01:55):
do I agree?
Yeah, that's what we're talkingabout today.
Yeah, you agree that it's allreal uh, no, let's save our
judgments for the end.
Okay, how dare you call me outso early?
Josh (02:05):
on the show.
Travis (02:06):
How dare you?
Josh (02:07):
I wanted to have you say yes, which you did, and I'm
going to edit that towards theend.
Travis (02:12):
Yeah, I know, I know how these work.
That sucks.
I actually get all the quizanswers right, but Josh edits my
response so that he looks goodand I look bad.
Yep, classic Josh.
I would say good and I look bad.
Yep, classic Josh.
I would say yeah, it is classicJosh.
Yeah, classic me not doing theright research and classic Josh
manipulating the answers.
Josh (02:29):
Except for that one, you got all of them right.
Travis (02:31):
I think that was to give me a false sense of security.
Josh (02:33):
It was.
Travis (02:34):
Yeah, well, it worked like really well.
Josh (02:40):
But we're not going to air that.
So here's the story of theincident.
I'm going to read a little bitof story.
Okay, you can finish off thestory.
Travis (02:46):
Excellent.
Do I just get cozy here for alittle bit, do you want?
Josh (02:49):
me to lean back.
Get the Snuggie out.
Travis (02:51):
Okay, I'll drink some of my coffee.
Josh (02:54):
It was the night of September 19th 1961.
Betty and Barney Hill werereturning home to Portsmouth,
New Hampshire, after awell-deserved vacation in Canada
.
As they drove through the dark,winding roads of New
Hampshire's White Mountains, astrange light appeared in the
sky.
Betty assumed it was a star orperhaps an aircraft, but as the
light drew closer she realizedit was moving erratically,
(03:16):
darting from side to side.
It was unlike any aircraftthey'd ever seen.
Travis (03:20):
What if it was moving erratically?
Uh Like doing a little sexy skydance that'd be fun it was like
that dun, dun, dun, dun, dunlike a sultry back and forth.
Josh (03:32):
Yeah, yeah, that's uh that's a thought that is a
thought right there anyways itwas unlike any aircraft they'd
ever seen.
Barney, a skeptical man bynature, was initially
unconvinced that this wasanything unusual.
Travis (03:48):
I like him already.
Josh (03:49):
But the object soon descended, getting close enough
that Barney could make out itsdetails through binoculars.
Barney would later describewhat he saw A large, flat,
disc-like craft with rows ofwindows and figures standing
behind them, tall, grayishfigures watching them from above
.
His skepticism gave way to fear.
Barney urged Betty to roll upthe windows and they sped off
(04:10):
down the deserted road.
Moments later, a strangebuzzing sound filled the car and
they felt a wave of drowsinesscome over them.
The next thing they knew theywere nearly 35 miles down the
road, with no memory of howthey'd gotten there.
Once home, both Betty and Barneynoticed unusual things.
Betty's dress was torn andstained.
Barney's shoes were scuffed, asif he'd been dragged.
(04:31):
A strange pinkish residueappeared on their car and they
began to experience nightmaresvivid, haunted dreams of being
taken aboard a spacecraft,examined by unknown beings.
Desperate for answers, theHills sought out medical help
Under hypnosis.
They recounted the samedisturbing details Memories of
being taken aboard the ship,separated and subjected to
(04:53):
invasive examinations.
Betty described the beings asgray-skinned, with large, dark
eyes and thin bodies.
They communicated throughthoughts, not words.
She even recalled a star mapshown to her by one of the
beings, a map of unknownconstellations.
Betty's star map, later studiedby astronomers, seemed to
correlate with a star systemonly identified years after her
(05:16):
experience.
Travis (05:17):
I think that that is a pretty easy thing to just throw
out, because the universe is sobig.
If you just say it was twostars here and two stars there,
three stars here, you could findthat constellation eventually
through, yeah, eventually, likethere's almost an infinite
amount of stars which therethere are.
I mean as far as we know, wecan't, we haven't been able to
count all the stars, so yeahthat is infinite.
(05:40):
You can't count it, so I thinkthat that could just be thrown
out.
Josh (05:45):
Personally, I ain't no star scientist, but I darn
tootin, think you're on tosomething.
Is this a new character?
Travis (05:53):
you're trying to out.
What's this character's name?
Skip cool, good, good job.
Skip the the skipper.
Yep, skip the skipper, skip theskipper down home country
boyipper.
Josh (06:04):
Down home country boy, once cowboy, now.
Travis (06:06):
Podcast aficionado On a boat.
Yeah, so I'm going to pick upfrom the dossier where Josh left
off.
So the story of Betty andBarney Hill isn't just one of
extraterrestrial encounters andstrange memories.
It's also a story of prejudice.
Betty and Barney were aninterracial couple in 1961, at a
time when such relationshipsfaced intense scrutiny and
stigma.
Betty was white, barney wasblack.
(06:28):
They lived in New Hampshire, apredominantly white region where
the relationship often drewunwanted attention.
When the Hills finally soughtmedical help to understand what
happened to them, they foundthemselves on the receiving end
of both skepticism and subtleprejudice.
Some questioned not only thevalidity of their account, but
also whether the stress of aninterracial marriage had driven
them to fabricate such a story.
Others insinuated that theirencounter was merely a fantasy
(06:51):
brought on by the pressures ofsociety.
For Betty and Barney, theirencounter marked the beginning
of a lifelong mystery, until herdeath in 2004,.
That's wild, yeah, she was like, I think, 85.
Betty Hill continued to believein her experience and, though
Barney passed away only a fewyears after the event, he too
insisted that they hadencountered something beyond our
understanding.
So Barney died at like 46.
(07:14):
Whoa, which, like I, am gettingdangerously close to in a
couple years.
I mean, that just sounds.
Do you know how he died, whathe?
Josh (07:23):
died of.
Travis (07:23):
No, couple years.
I mean that just sounds.
Do you know how he died?
What he died of?
No, but like he was a black man, you know, in the 60s probably
was not able to access the likemedical care that was, you know,
accessible to a lot of whitemen of the time yeah, it's
possible I shouldn't say I don'tknow, because the internet
exists so it is a pretty crazystory.
It it's bonkers Another way tosay crazy, sure it's cuckoo.
Josh (07:49):
It's wacky Goofy.
Travis (07:53):
We're really running through it Okay.
Josh (07:55):
That was a brief summary of what happened.
They see something in the sky,they have lost time, something
happens where they get sleepy.
They have period of space,actual distance that they
traveled, that they don'tremember.
They have nightmares and theyweren't able to know what
actually happened until somehypnosis and they have this
(08:17):
hypnosis online that you canwatch Beep, beep, beep, beep,
beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.
Travis (08:21):
Update on Barney Hill.
Yes, he died of a cerebralhemorrhage.
So you're precise, hill.
Yes, he died of a cerebralhemorrhage.
Super sus, yeah, whoa Was thatput there?
Josh (08:29):
Yeah, by the aliens.
Travis (08:32):
Well, Betty died a good long time after she was 85.
Josh (08:36):
This is women are stronger than men.
Travis (08:37):
She died of cancer, which comes for us all.
Josh (08:40):
It does, sadly, we're just going gonna get right into it.
I'm just gonna tell you rightwhat is legitimate about the
story.
Okay, okay, okay, because I'mnot gonna do this dance you're
not gonna do this dance no andthen suddenly the music comes on
and you're like can I?
Travis (08:58):
have this dance and I'm like god damn it.
Josh (08:59):
You said you weren't gonna dance with me I'm not doing
that, so here are some of thelegitimacy's around this
abduction.
There is hypnosis.
Travis (09:09):
Are you acknowledging that hypnosis?
Josh (09:11):
is a thing I am acknowledging that it happened.
Travis (09:14):
Okay, there was hypnosis .
Josh (09:15):
There was hypnosis.
There is some stuff about thehypnosis that some people find
very skeptical.
Travis (09:22):
Dangerous even.
Josh (09:23):
Yes, but there are some things that happen during the
hypnosis that stand out, andthat's the consistency between
their stories, sure.
Travis (09:32):
But that's a fucking ride or die man.
Betty and Barney Hill were rideor die.
They had been-.
Oh, I'm sorry, Did you knowthem?
Josh (09:38):
Did you talk to them?
Did they tell you this?
Travis (09:40):
I don't have to.
You can show me the proof.
They were an interracial couple, which means that they had been
put through some shit, I'm sure, and they both stayed together.
That's my favorite part of thisstory.
I think it's like this is.
The most beautiful part is thatthey were united in the story
that they were telling.
No matter what happened, they'dgotten their story straight and
(10:01):
they stuck to it.
They were each other's ride ordie man.
I love that.
Josh (10:04):
If you believe that they had to get their story straight,
or it could have just been thestory.
Yeah, I don't believe that youknow, because they recounted
remarkably similar experiences,but they had hypnosis happen at
different times and they weren'tinformed of what they told
during the hypnosis.
Their accounts includedconsistent details about the
craft, the appearance of thebeings and the medical
(10:27):
examinations, sure and thesequence of events.
Despite attempts to dismissthese recollections as
influenced by external factors,such as popular media, both
individuals maintained theiraccounts even after hypnosis
sessions concluded.
Well, what was the popular?
Travis (10:40):
media.
Back then there wasn't anypopular media regarding this.
There is.
Well, I guess we'll get to thatpart then.
I like that.
Their stories are consistentand I think that that shows an
open communication between thiscouple.
I think they shared each otherand, just like we've talked
about before, when you'recreating a memory, sometimes
it's false and sometimes youwant to believe something so bad
(11:01):
that that becomes your memory.
I'm not saying that'snecessarily the case, because
I'm going to try to keep an openmind on this, but I just think
that these two being unifiedunder so much pressure is a
testament not to the overallalien experience which they may
or may not have had, but it's atestament to their relationship
and how strong it was.
Josh (11:19):
Yeah, betty and Barney, were they in love?
Yes, yes.
Travis (11:23):
And she never remarried after he died.
She and barney, were they inlove?
Yes, and she never remarriedafter he died.
Josh (11:28):
She became like an icon in this movement, but, yeah, to go
against society and staytogether.
I can't imagine what that wouldbe like probably something
similar to my wife and his lovewhat a violation of society a
forbidden love yeah, because youwere like a quasimodo and she's
like a Esmeralda, I think thatwas her name.
Travis (11:47):
We were just here ringing the bells.
Josh (11:50):
And, yeah, I was thinking more Shakespearean.
But if you want to go the meanroute Like Hamlet, no, no.
So another thing is the missingtime.
Travis (12:01):
Yeah, which we talked about last week.
Right, this is what you calldrinking, that's true.
Josh (12:06):
So the Hills could not account for a pretty big chunk
of time during their drive, aphenomenon ufologists term
missing time.
This unexplained gap in theirrecollection strengthens the
possibility of an event theycould not consciously recall,
and that's kind of supportingthe potential validity of their
abduction case.
There's also physical evidence,like torn clothing.
(12:28):
Betty's dress was torn at thehem.
She had a pinkish powder foundon her dress, just an unusual
pink powder.
Barney had damaged shoes.
They were scraped at the toes.
Travis (12:39):
So side note here In grade school, what kind of soap
did you have, do you remember?
Josh (12:44):
In the school or at home in the school.
Travis (12:46):
What did it look like?
I don't remember you don'tremember being like a pink
powder?
Josh (12:50):
no, we didn't have powder, we had liquid soap we had
powder and it came in adispenser.
Travis (12:55):
Or if you put your hand underneath it and then you push
up on a little lever, the soapwould dispense so maybe, maybe
it was soap, or maybe it wasalien.
Maybe the aliens were just likewashing their hands of this
whole experience.
Josh (13:07):
Yeah, maybe the aliens in the lab in the space.
Travis (13:11):
They were using the same pink powder.
They were using the pink powder.
That was the technology at thetime here on Earth, because
that's where they were.
Josh (13:16):
Yeah, they couldn't go all the way back to get their own
soap.
Yep, they had to use what wasavailable.
Travis (13:20):
I like this.
Josh (13:25):
They're people too.
Galeans are people too.
So another thing about thephysical evidence is Barney's
binocular straps were torn andhe couldn't explain how it
happened.
The car trunk markings shinyconcentric circles on the car
trunk appeared after theincident.
Malfunctioning watches bothBetty and Barney's watches
stopped working after theencounter.
(13:47):
And then there was compassanomalies.
A compass rolled rapidly whenplaced near the marking on the
trunk, which is super weird.
A magnet could do that, but I'mthe believer here, so I'm
saying no magnet.
Travis (13:58):
You would say this is like your classic line compass
stagnant, no magnet.
Josh (14:03):
Yeah, I always say that Classic.
Travis (14:05):
Classic Josh, classic Josh.
You got that tattooed on yourinner arm.
Josh (14:09):
Yep, it was painful, but I'll never forget Worth it.
Travis (14:12):
Yeah, you try to work that into conversation every day
.
Josh (14:15):
There was also the Hill's background.
They were both respectedmembers of their community,
actively involved in civilrights work.
Their commitment to socialjustice and rational thought
makes it unlikely that theywould fabricate a story like
this, particularly in the socialclimate in the 1960s.
(14:36):
As an interracial couple, theyalready faced societal scrutiny
and may have been hesitant toattract further attention with a
fabricated story like this.
So the impact on their liveswith this story affected them
like crazy, leading them to seekmedical help and attempt to
understand their experiencethrough hypnosis that we talked
about.
Their willingness to discussthe events with the researchers
and undergo extensivepsychiatric evaluation
demonstrates the genuine impactof the event on their lives.
(14:58):
So I mean these are pretty bigthings that happen.
There's physical evidence,there's societal evidence,
there's hypnosis.
Even though there are someskeptical and dangerous things
about the hypnosis, it's still,I mean, the story's lining up.
Travis (15:12):
So it's not.
It's not backed up by science,like science is pretty much
thrown out hypnotism as a, as ameans of extracting information.
It's all subjective.
We don't use hypnotism anymore.
This is.
It was like a new thing backthen and kind of a novelty at a,
at a show.
Like if you want, this is realright, you can use it to help if
you're susceptible to it.
(15:39):
But it's just I look athypnotism, just a lot like some
people might look at and I'm nota hypnosis scientist, yeah, but
I think that there could beequal amounts of benefit from
hypnosis as you would get frommeditation when I was growing up
it was like hypnosis andacupuncture and all these kind
of naturopathic remedies, likeit just seemed as though that
was just woo-wah, and as I'vegotten older it seems that there
(16:03):
is some validity and now you'relike aha instead of woo-wah
yeah it.
Josh (16:07):
it just seems like they do work.
There is science backing it,there is things happening.
Travis (16:13):
I think it's more of a.
This is just me speaking as adumb idiot, travis sitting on a
couch with a good bud.
Josh, I think that it's amindfulness thing, like if you
want to quit smoking, say right.
And they say that hypnosis isvery effective at helping people
quit smoking.
If are dedicated enough to goand get hypnosis which is
something you have to pay,rather than just throw your pack
(16:34):
of cigarettes or cigars out orwhatever and just commit to it,
then that means you're dedicatedto doing it, and I think those
people that go and gethypnotized for smoking are
already on the.
I'm leaving the smoking campalready.
Josh (16:47):
They want to like sink that in their mind I think it's
actually more tapping into thesubconscious, because we're
operating at a conscious leveland there's lots of things going
on behind the scenes in ourbrain and we already know that.
The brain has a plasticity toit, so it can change.
It's also electrical, so youcan rewire it.
I believe that if you can tapinto the subconscious and change
(17:08):
the hardwiring thought processof your brain, Our brains are
essentially like two pounds offat that power a 150 pound being
through electricity.
Travis (17:17):
It is wild.
Brains are the wildest thingthey are.
Josh (17:20):
Yeah, and I think that hypnosis can tap deep inside of
that and change some of that.
Mindfulness definitely isalways important, but I think
it's real.
But there are ways to abuse itas well, and that's where a lot
of this debate comes is, youknow, is?
Is there prompts?
Is there?
I don't, I don't know.
Travis (17:39):
Well said, especially that last part.
Josh (17:41):
The I don't know.
Travis (17:42):
Yeah, Like build up to the I don't know.
Josh (17:44):
Yeah, I'm not a prompt scientist.
Travis (17:48):
Although my father was your father, dr Prompt, they
called him yeah.
So you do have some arguments.
Yeah, I'm just going to tuckinto this.
So these are some of thearguments that have been brought
up about the Betty and BarneyHill abduction.
There was a lack ofcorroborating evidence.
Many critics point to theabsence of strong physical
evidence to support the Hill'sclaims.
While some physical anomalieswere observed, such as the torn
(18:11):
clothing, trunk markings andmalfunctioning watches, these
elements lack definitive linksto an alien encounter, which is
what I agree.
The sources do not mention anyindependent verification of the
pinkish powder found on Betty'sdress, nor do they provide
conclusive evidence connectingthe compass anomalies to the
incident.
Additionally, no otherwitnesses came forward to
confirm the Hill's sighting ofthe UFO.
Additionally, no otherwitnesses came forward to
confirm the whole sighting ofthe UFO.
Josh (18:32):
So they're saying anyone could rip some clothes, stop a
watch, put some soap on it.
Travis (18:38):
Yeah, anybody could.
Yeah, that's like the wholetheme of this show so far.
Is you want to believe this sobad?
And I am looking at it likethis is one person saying that
they experienced something it isnot?
I'm not trying to invalidatewhatever they felt, but it
doesn't ever add up to me as anextraterrestrial experience Like
(18:58):
these can all be explained awayin very simple terms.
Josh (19:00):
And maybe that's what the aliens are trying to accomplish,
you know, maybe that's why theyleft these signs.
Travis (19:06):
Maybe this was Barney's whole play to just get a new
binocular strap.
He just couldn't, he just hewas like something happened my
binocular strap.
Josh (19:13):
He called to get a replacement and it was past its
warranty.
Travis (19:17):
Yep, and so he created this whole thing to get a new
strap.
It could be Okay.
There was also an influence ofexternal factors.
Researchers have proposed thatthe Hill's account's, particular
Barney's descriptions underhypnosis could have been
influenced by popular culture,particularly science fiction.
The timing of Barney's firsthypnotic session, just two weeks
after the broadcast of theBolero Shield episode of the
(19:38):
Outer Limits, which featured analien with large wraparound eyes
, raises questions aboutpotential subconscious influence
.
Additionally, other OuterLimits episodes airing around
the same time contain elementsmirroring aspects of the Hills
account, such as an alienmedical examination and the
protagonist's car being stoppedby extraterrestrials.
Critics argue that the Hillsmay have unintentionally
(19:59):
incorporated these fictionalelements into their memories,
which speaks to that likecreated memory or a false memory
narrative that I thinksurrounds a lot of these
incidences.
A lot of them have like missingtime or lost time.
Josh (20:12):
Yeah, I'm sure I've had false memories.
I just don't know how I couldwatch something on TV or hear
something and place that into mymind.
That's hard for me tocomprehend.
Yeah, but everyone hasdifferent minds, yep.
Travis (20:27):
Some of them are beautiful.
Josh (20:28):
Some of them are.
Travis (20:29):
Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the reliability
of hypnosis-induced memories.
Josh (20:35):
Yeah, I'm curious about this.
Travis (20:36):
A significant portion of the detailed account of the
abduction emerged duringhypnosis sessions conducted by
Dr Benjamin Simon.
Critics argue that memoriesretrieved through hypnosis are
susceptible to suggestion,confabulation and the influence
of the hypnotist.
Dr Simon himself concluded thatthe case was a singular
psychological aberration,suggesting that the abduction
(20:57):
narrative may have been aproduct of the Hill's
subconscious minds rather thanan actual event.
So Dr Simon is even saying thiscould have been a stored memory
from the TV show that they hadwatched weeks prior Interesting.
Okay, and it was in theirsubconscious, basically sure,
whatever that means, you knowwhat it means.
Yeah, below conscious yes thereare some alternative
(21:22):
explanations.
Skeptical researchers haveoffered alternative explanations
for the hills experience.
For example, jim mc McDonald, alocal resident, suggested the
Hills may have misidentified anaircraft warning beacon on
cannon mountain as a UFO.
The beacons appearance anddisappearance aligned with the
Hills description of the UFOsmovements.
Mcdonald attributes theremainder of their experience to
(21:42):
stress sleep deprivation andthe creation of false memories
during hypnosis.
Josh (21:46):
Yeah, I mean that kind of goes to like the Rendlesham
forest thing, where those peoplesaw something and the locals
were saying, oh, that's probablythe lighthouse.
Yeah, because they saw lightevery four seconds.
The lighthouse was on arotation every four seconds.
Travis (22:03):
Possible, possible, conceivable Aliens.
So Betty Hill had some laterUFO sightings.
Ufo researcher Robert Schiefferquestions Betty Hill's
credibility based on hernumerous UFO sightings after the
1961 incident.
Schieffer suggests that thesesightings, often of blips, blurs
and blobs in the sky I lovethat alliteration, by the way
(22:24):
Were misinterpretations ofordinary phenomena.
He recounts an instance whereHill allegedly mistook a
streetlight for a landed UFO.
Schieffer argues that thesecontinued questionable sightings
cast out on the credibility ofher original abduction claim.
Josh (22:37):
It's possible that she had her mind boggled in the
spaceship.
Travis (22:41):
But haven't you ever thought, like looked at
something?
And there are a lot of imagesonline, like just scrolling
through Instagram, where you'relooking at something and you are
like holy shit, what is wrongwith that kid's legs?
And you realize she's standingin a field of corn holding a
popcorn bag, but it looks likeher legs are junked up because
she's holding her popcorn bagkind of low.
Yeah, I saw something that'svery specific and it's probably
(23:04):
not going to translate very wellto an audio form, but you know
you can look at a picture.
It's kind of like those magiceye things where if you look at
something long enough it willbecome whatever.
Josh (23:14):
It's possible that she could, because there has been
instances in the past, a lot ofinstances, where people have an
alien encounter and then theyhave a lot of weird things
happen after the encounter.
So maybe she just continuallyhad weird things happen and the
aliens were taunting her andthen, jesus Christ I mean, it is
a possibility.
You know, I don't want to shamesomeone for seeing something
(23:35):
and or maybe maybe her mind wasjust starting to slip?
Travis (23:39):
We're not.
I mean, if that's the case,then everybody's mind is
slipping because we all wouldinterpret.
You could look at thesepictures you could see an
elephant or you could see aforest yeah Right.
And some of these drawings.
And at these pictures you couldsee an elephant or you could
see a forest yeah Right.
And some of these drawings.
And I think if your brain iswired to think that way, you're
going to continue to processimages in a way that reaffirms
your brain wiring Right.
Josh (23:59):
Yeah, it is true.
I mean, if she truly believesthat's what she saw and she's
living the rest of her life withparanoia and fear, she's going
to see a lot more things.
Travis (24:10):
Yeah, life with paranoia and fear, she's gonna see a lot
more things.
Yeah, like say, you're walkingdown the street and it's dark
and you're a woman and you see ayellow trash bag.
Am I going to shame you forthinking that's the cheese
goblin?
Josh (24:19):
no, what does that have to do with being a woman?
Travis (24:21):
I don't, I'm just saying well, I'm because betty.
Betty is a woman walking downthe street and she's made some
claims where she's seen somethings.
So she's walking down thestreet when maybe one of the
claims is she saw.
I don't know, I'd be scared ifI saw a cheese goblin.
I know, maybe if you walkcloser which you wouldn't do,
you never approach a cheesegoblin but if you didn't, maybe
it was just a yellow trash.
Josh (24:39):
You can approach it from behind and you'll be fine
because cheese goblins can'tturn their head right.
Travis (24:45):
That's their one weakness yeah, that's the lore.
If you approach them from anyother angle, though, it's
curtains for you.
Josh (24:53):
Yeah, you're donezo yeah.
Travis (24:55):
Okay, so these counterarguments contribute to
the ongoing debate surroundingthe legitimacy of Betty and
Barney Hill and their abduction.
While their story played apivotal role in shaping the
modern narrative of alienabductions, it remains a subject
of intense scrutiny andskepticism.
Josh (25:09):
But still a foundational landmark for the community.
And I mean there's not a lot ofespecially in that era there's
not a lot of very big abductionthings- there's people.
When things, weird things,happen, people don't talk about
it.
Travis (25:22):
Yeah, randy Quaid's character in Independence Day
said that he had been taken onboard a ship and had butt stuff
done to him, and that's why hedrives his plane into like the
mothership here oh, spoileralert oh shit.
Spoiler alert for id id4independence day yeah if you're
listening to this podcast, youprobably have that movie
memorized yes, great movie, yeah, and he, I mean that's a prime
(25:46):
example.
Josh (25:47):
You know he talked about what happened.
Travis (25:49):
Yeah, nobody believed him.
Josh (25:51):
No one believed him.
He was made fun of, he wasassaulted.
Travis (25:54):
Yeah, character was assaulted.
Randy Quaid wasn't assaulted.
Josh (25:57):
So yeah, the mystery of Betty and Barney Hill remains
one of the most compelling andhaunting cases in UFO lore.
For Betty and Barney, it was anexperience that would follow
them for the rest of their lives, which Barney wasn't very much
longer, but Betty it was thereand it filled them with
questions they could never fullyanswer.
So in the end, the truth of theHill abduction may always
(26:18):
remain a mystery, and I'm okaywith that.
So my final thoughts are theydefinitely experienced something
, something happened that wasunexplainable to them.
I think they did have lost time.
I think these things that Idon't think they did them
themselves, the physicalevidence, the tearing and the
markings on the car and allthese things I think they were
(26:41):
baffled.
I think it really fucked withtheir heads.
And when they talked to someonefor the first time, I think
they were frantic enough wherethe person's like, well, you
need to get some help.
So they went to a doctor andthey hypnotized him to figure
out, because that's what wasgoing on at the time.
You know like, well, we canhelp.
You see what really happenedthrough hypnosis.
(27:02):
It is possible that they tappedinto something from other
experiences, through media orother things that kind of
convoluted into their mindbecause they're already having
nightmares of similar things.
But it is possible.
I think this is definitely amaybe higher up to the yes, but
I mean, it is a forever mystery.
(27:23):
It'll always be a mystery,we'll never know.
Just because aliens are thatgood, all right, yep, all right,
they know what they're doing.
They traveled the cosmos.
They've been doing it for amillennia.
They, they know what they'redoing this ain't their first
rodeo?
Travis (27:38):
yep, sticking things up buttholes yeah, so is it aliens?
Josh (27:44):
yes, maybe, no, maybe no.
Mine is a maybe.
Okay, what about you?
Travis (27:48):
I think I'd come down similar to you in some ways.
I think this is just abeautiful story about a couple
who has endured a lot ofhardship and decided, through
all of this, they were going tostick together and damn whatever
everybody else thought.
They're going to tell theirstory, whatever that is,
(28:08):
whatever their experience wasand be true to themselves as a
couple.
I don't know that this happenedto them.
Maybe something happened.
I'm sure a lot of really fuckedup shit happened to interracial
couples and we know a lot offucked up shit happened to a lot
of black men at the time.
Yeah, now I'm not saying thatthis was something that they
(28:29):
were maybe trying to hidebecause something really
embarrassing happened on theirway home, but I'm not going to
rule it out because that sort ofthing.
There's documented evidence ofthat sort of thing happening
really embarrassing, verydegrading behavior inflicted on
by white people, and maybe itwas something embarrassing and
they didn't want to talk aboutit.
And this is the way they copewith it.
(28:49):
They repress this memory downand then created a story around
it to help them, because we alldo this in various ways.
We create our own narrative inour head to help us get through
what can be a very toughexistence.
I mean, we're all humans onthis planet dealing with things,
and maybe that's maybe that'swhat happened.
That's a good explanation, sothis is why I love the story.
(29:12):
So much, though, is that it'sjust.
It's a testament of a couplethat is very committed to each
other through thick and thinthrough thick and thin and have
each other's back all the way upuntil Betty died in 2004.
Josh (29:23):
All right.
Travis (29:23):
So I'm a maybe low, maybe to know.
Okay, this is a hard positionto take because it is their
singular experience that theyare telling everybody there
weren't any other witnesses,nobody could corroborate
anything that had happened.
So I'm a low, maybe high.
Josh (29:43):
No, all right, I'm okay with that.
Okay, I like it.
It's a different perspective.
I always need new perspectives,for sure, and it's something I
hadn't thought of.
It's great.
So we would love to hear whatyou guys think.
We'll have links in our shownotes and you can send us fan
mail.
Do you know what fan mail is?
Travis (30:02):
no, is it where people just send you fans?
Josh (30:05):
so they like, click a link in the show notes like fan mail
, and they can just text us andwe'll get notifications that
someone messaged us.
Travis (30:13):
Wild yeah, isn't that cool.
What a time to be alive andpodcasting.
Josh (30:17):
Yeah, so we would love to hear from you guys what you guys
think or if you have anyquestions, and we're super glad
that you're listening or stilllistening.
That's exciting.
Thank you, yep.
Okay, so that brings us to ourquiz.
Yep, our baseline quiz, to letyou know what kind of
information we know about thenext topic that we're going to
(30:37):
talk about.
Okay, baseline quiz.
Oh boy, and our next topic isthe Phoenix lights.
I am aware of this, I've seenshows about it.
Oh boy, and our next topic isthe Phoenix Lights.
I am aware of this, I've seenshows about it.
Travis (30:51):
Surprising no one Not familiar with this.
I thought the Phoenix Lightswas like a minor league sports
team, but I guess we'll find out.
Josh (31:02):
Yeah, we will.
Let's see what we know.
So the first question when didthe Phoenix Lights incident take
place?
Boom, 1986.
Travis (31:10):
Going with my gut.
Josh (31:11):
So is it A 1986, b 1992, c 1997, or D 2000?
You say 1986.
Travis (31:21):
1986.
With a bullet First, right outof the gate, I'm coming in.
Hot man I was thinking the 90s.
Okay, but there's two answersin the 90s?
Josh (31:30):
yeah, I'm gonna say 97.
Right, good pick, coward.
Yeah, thank you next questionwhat was the official
explanation given for the lightseen over phoenix at 10 pm?
Travis (31:44):
the a a meteor shower, b military illumination flares, c
search lights from a footballgame or d a large blimp okay,
I'm going search lights from afootball game to stay in line
with my minor sports team themethat I'm creating about this.
Josh (32:01):
So this is.
This is what you're going with,absolutely okay.
My answer is going to be bmilitary illumination flares.
Travis (32:10):
Okay next question.
Josh (32:12):
I know the answer to this one what celebrity reported
seeing the lights to air trafficcontrol?
Is that a?
Yep kurt russell yep b.
Mel gibson nope c.
John travolta nope d.
Travis (32:23):
Dustin hoffman nope uh kurt russell, you actually know
he's talked about it.
Well, he's talked about havingan experience I don't know.
Josh (32:31):
I'm just gonna go off of what you're saying because you
sound very sure, very confident.
Travis (32:36):
He was on like uh, him and his, his son, were on a show
talking about well, and kurt'salso a pilot right I think
they're all pilots?
Josh (32:44):
yeah, that's true, but that's why he was talking to air
traffic control, like he hadhim on speed dial.
Sure Interesting.
I had no idea that there wasany celebrity around that.
That's cool.
Next question Approximately howmany witnesses were there to
the Phoenix lights incident?
A, a few dozen, b, hundreds, c,thousands, d, tens of thousands
(33:08):
?
Travis (33:09):
that tens of thousands seems ludicrous.
So that's what I'm picking tensof thousands, oh wow, just
kidding, I'm gonna say hundreds,that's what I was thinking too,
yeah these things are alwaysinsane.
We talked about the aerialschool phenomena and I just
can't believe that all of thosekids claim to have seen the same
thing.
So I'm just I mean, I'm goingto err on the side of how insane
(33:31):
group sightings are yeah, andthere's a lot of group sightings
.
Josh (33:35):
This will be a fun episode .
Travis (33:36):
We're going to talk about kurt russell, one of my
favorite actors, at leastthrough like the 80s.
Okay, I love kurt russell.
Josh (33:44):
I do too and his son's doing really great work too.
All right, last question whattwo shapes were most commonly
used to describe the formationof lights?
A square and rectangular, btriangle and V shape.
C oval and boomerang.
Or D pyramid and diamond?
Travis (34:03):
I mean, what is a boomerang if not just a soft V?
So that's a little I'm gonnasay, just because of how
descriptive it is.
Josh (34:11):
I mean, come on, a soft V is very different than a V.
Travis (34:18):
No, it's not.
Josh (34:19):
Yeah, it is.
Travis (34:19):
No, it's not.
Josh (34:21):
V's are tight.
Travis (34:23):
Depends on your handwriting.
I mean, you could do a soft V.
Josh (34:26):
I would never do a boomerang for a V.
Travis (34:28):
I've done soft Vs before .
Josh (34:30):
I don't like this hey.
Travis (34:33):
So what do you think?
Oval and boomerang is what I'mpicking.
Josh (34:36):
Okay, I'm going to do pyramid and diamond Cool.
I don't know why, but it justkind of reminds me of aliens,
right?
Travis (34:44):
Yeah, that's reminds me of aliens, right?
Yeah, that's what this is about.
Your favorite neil's, neildiamond and neil pyramid yeah,
the inventor of the pyramid andthe inventor of the of diamonds.
Josh (34:55):
Yeah, all right.
So I'm gonna submit this shit.
Travis (34:58):
I'm gonna view my accuracy boy, was I wrong about
1986?
Josh (35:02):
oh, I was.
So the phoenix light incident.
The only one I got right waskurt russell.
Well, we don't want thelisteners to know that already.
All right, let's go through.
Travis (35:14):
Let's let's see these answers oh, it's fine, they know
the listeners are they alreadyknew.
No, the listeners if we havethem were screaming into their
speakers telling me that Ipicked wrong.
They were probably it wasprobably like a physical
response to me getting somethingwrong.
Josh (35:30):
Or there was people that didn't know, just like you.
Travis (35:32):
They're probably, like this guy's, a fucking idiot.
It is obviously 1997.
Josh (35:37):
I think our listeners are going to be cheering you on.
I don't think our listeners aremean.
I think they're like.
You can do it, travis.
Better luck next time, travis.
Travis (35:46):
What a Josh.
Again we have really goodlisteners, you're right.
Josh (35:51):
I know I'm right.
I'm right about all of thisAliens exist.
What a beautiful idea.
Yeah, so the Phoenix lightsincident took place in 1997.
Yeah, and you said what?
Travis (36:01):
1986.
Josh (36:03):
That's right, Okay.
Next question was what was theofficial explanation given to
the lights seen over Phoenix at10 pm?
Travis (36:11):
You said Searchlights from a football game, right?
Uh-huh, it was right.
Josh (36:17):
No, you're right, that is what you said, you're right, I'm
wrong.
Travis (36:21):
That's what you meant to say Well, I meant You're right.
I was that you are wrong.
Josh (36:26):
It seems as though I was right, but that's not what I was
trying to portray.
But yes, the answer wasmilitary, but yes.
I was wrong.
You were wrong.
I was right.
It was military illuminationflares because there was many
lights in the sky.
What celebrity reported seeingthe lights to air traffic
control?
Your one and only Kurt Russell.
Travis (36:45):
I had no idea that's bonkers control you're one and
only kurt russell yeah I had noidea that's bonkers yeah, my one
, and only I don't know your onetrue love, my, my lord and
savior, kurt russell so we bothgot that right.
Josh (36:58):
I only got it right because of you so does that
count double?
Travis (37:01):
then do I get double points for that?
Sure, I'm still failing lessfailing now cool yeah, you can
have two points great out of athousand.
Yeah, because every otherquestion is worth 250 points, I
answered the one that was onlyworth one point.
Josh (37:16):
You have two points now.
Yeah, two points, you have athousand.
So approximately how manywitnesses were there to the
phoenix?
I said hundreds, you saidhundreds.
Travis (37:28):
The answer was thousands .
Which kind of poo-poos?
Your theory of no, because Iinitially said tens of thousands
.
I was going the most extreme.
Josh (37:38):
I guess that's true, but you were saying that these are
crazy.
I mean, there's no way.
And now it's thousands, it'sworse, yeah, which makes it more
credible, right?
No, they's no way.
And now it's thousands.
It's worse, yeah, which makesit more credible, right?
No, they just saw lights.
So frustrating.
Travis (37:52):
They just saw lights.
I don't know what thisexperience is, I'm just judging
all my opinion based on thistest.
Josh (37:57):
That's true, okay, last question what two shapes are
most commonly used to describethe formation of lights?
I said pyramid and diamond.
Travis (38:05):
Yeah, describe the formation of lights.
I said pyramid and diamond.
Yeah, you said oval andboomerang, but I also said what
is a boomerang but if not a softV?
So I think partial credit.
Josh (38:14):
So you got half a point.
The answer is triangle and Vshape.
Two and a half points.
Two and a half points forTravis.
I got that wrong, so I only gotthree correct.
Travis (38:27):
Yeah, but we determined that all the questions that I
got right were one point.
Josh (38:30):
The ones you get right are , so I got 500 points because I
got two right and then you and Iboth I gave you my point you
got 251 points then.
Travis (38:38):
Then you gave that point to me, so you have 250 I'm
getting so confused with thesepoints right now this is a game
where the points don't matteryes, obviously whatever drew,
carrie says on whose line is itanyway?
Josh (38:49):
But it does matter to you, because you're getting real
upset Because I keep screwingthese up.
That's fine.
I just want to win, but youknow what you will when we talk
about it.
It's going to be awesome yeahit's going to be a good app and
I'm excited for all you guys tolisten and learn about a minor
sports team.
No, the true meaning of thePhoenix.
Travis (39:09):
Lions.
Josh (39:10):
Yes, christmas, all right, we will see you guys next week.
Travis (39:13):
Okay, thanks for listening.
Yep, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye,bye, bye.
Aliens Aliens, yes.
Travis (00:09):
But maybe no.
Welcome to the show.
Aliens, yes, but maybe no.
I'm Travis and I'm josh, asalways, and this is an
(00:29):
otherworldly podcast, asambiguous as our title.
Okay, so this week on the showwe're kind of diverging from
what we normally talk about withaliens.
We're talking about benny andbarney hill from the flintstones
, right?
So this whole week I've justbeen catching up on my
Flintstones episodes.
I thought it was weird.
Josh (00:47):
This is really uncomfortable, because that's
not what we're talking about.
It's Betty and Barney Hill.
Travis (00:52):
Yeah, Betty and Barney Hill, the Flintstones neighbors.
Josh (00:56):
No, this is a different story.
This is real life.
This isn't cartoon.
Travis (01:00):
Well, I thought that was weird.
Why did you make me watch allthe oh no, I thought it was
funny.
Josh (01:04):
Betty and Barney.
Travis (01:05):
Rubble.
I thought that maybe it was atypo in our oh no.
Josh (01:09):
Well, maybe you can start another podcast about the
Flintstones.
Go episode by episode.
Travis (01:15):
That's what the podcasting world needs is just
more Flintstones content.
Josh (01:18):
Yeah.
Travis (01:19):
There's just not enough out there.
Josh (01:26):
It's a 50 old cartoon one of the longest running cartoons
yeah, I enjoyed it when I was akid, next to the simpsons.
I enjoyed the live actions too.
When I was a kid I triedwatching with my kids it was
hard, you would you sicko no, itwas great so uh should we talk
about?
Travis (01:36):
this is gonna be uncomfortable.
Yeah, I did.
Uh, the wrong amount ofresearch.
Josh (01:40):
Classic travis yeah, so we are talking about betty and
barney hill.
Yeah, and the abduction thereal, honest, true, not faked
abduction of betty and barneyhill yes, you agree?
Travis (01:55):
do I agree?
Yeah, that's what we're talkingabout today.
Yeah, you agree that it's allreal uh, no, let's save our
judgments for the end.
Okay, how dare you call me outso early?
Josh (02:05):
on the show.
Travis (02:06):
How dare you?
Josh (02:07):
I wanted to have you say yes, which you did, and I'm
going to edit that towards theend.
Travis (02:12):
Yeah, I know, I know how these work.
That sucks.
I actually get all the quizanswers right, but Josh edits my
response so that he looks goodand I look bad.
Yep, classic Josh.
I would say good and I look bad.
Yep, classic Josh.
I would say yeah, it is classicJosh.
Yeah, classic me not doing theright research and classic Josh
manipulating the answers.
Josh (02:29):
Except for that one, you got all of them right.
Travis (02:31):
I think that was to give me a false sense of security.
Josh (02:33):
It was.
Travis (02:34):
Yeah, well, it worked like really well.
Josh (02:40):
But we're not going to air that.
So here's the story of theincident.
I'm going to read a little bitof story.
Okay, you can finish off thestory.
Travis (02:46):
Excellent.
Do I just get cozy here for alittle bit, do you want?
Josh (02:49):
me to lean back.
Get the Snuggie out.
Travis (02:51):
Okay, I'll drink some of my coffee.
Josh (02:54):
It was the night of September 19th 1961.
Betty and Barney Hill werereturning home to Portsmouth,
New Hampshire, after awell-deserved vacation in Canada
.
As they drove through the dark,winding roads of New
Hampshire's White Mountains, astrange light appeared in the
sky.
Betty assumed it was a star orperhaps an aircraft, but as the
light drew closer she realizedit was moving erratically,
(03:16):
darting from side to side.
It was unlike any aircraftthey'd ever seen.
Travis (03:20):
What if it was moving erratically?
Uh Like doing a little sexy skydance that'd be fun it was like
that dun, dun, dun, dun, dunlike a sultry back and forth.
Josh (03:32):
Yeah, yeah, that's uh that's a thought that is a
thought right there anyways itwas unlike any aircraft they'd
ever seen.
Barney, a skeptical man bynature, was initially
unconvinced that this wasanything unusual.
Travis (03:48):
I like him already.
Josh (03:49):
But the object soon descended, getting close enough
that Barney could make out itsdetails through binoculars.
Barney would later describewhat he saw A large, flat,
disc-like craft with rows ofwindows and figures standing
behind them, tall, grayishfigures watching them from above
.
His skepticism gave way to fear.
Barney urged Betty to roll upthe windows and they sped off
(04:10):
down the deserted road.
Moments later, a strangebuzzing sound filled the car and
they felt a wave of drowsinesscome over them.
The next thing they knew theywere nearly 35 miles down the
road, with no memory of howthey'd gotten there.
Once home, both Betty and Barneynoticed unusual things.
Betty's dress was torn andstained.
Barney's shoes were scuffed, asif he'd been dragged.
(04:31):
A strange pinkish residueappeared on their car and they
began to experience nightmaresvivid, haunted dreams of being
taken aboard a spacecraft,examined by unknown beings.
Desperate for answers, theHills sought out medical help
Under hypnosis.
They recounted the samedisturbing details Memories of
being taken aboard the ship,separated and subjected to
(04:53):
invasive examinations.
Betty described the beings asgray-skinned, with large, dark
eyes and thin bodies.
They communicated throughthoughts, not words.
She even recalled a star mapshown to her by one of the
beings, a map of unknownconstellations.
Betty's star map, later studiedby astronomers, seemed to
correlate with a star systemonly identified years after her
(05:16):
experience.
Travis (05:17):
I think that that is a pretty easy thing to just throw
out, because the universe is sobig.
If you just say it was twostars here and two stars there,
three stars here, you could findthat constellation eventually
through, yeah, eventually, likethere's almost an infinite
amount of stars which therethere are.
I mean as far as we know, wecan't, we haven't been able to
count all the stars, so yeahthat is infinite.
(05:40):
You can't count it, so I thinkthat that could just be thrown
out.
Josh (05:45):
Personally, I ain't no star scientist, but I darn
tootin, think you're on tosomething.
Is this a new character?
Travis (05:53):
you're trying to out.
What's this character's name?
Skip cool, good, good job.
Skip the the skipper.
Yep, skip the skipper, skip theskipper down home country
boyipper.
Josh (06:04):
Down home country boy, once cowboy, now.
Travis (06:06):
Podcast aficionado On a boat.
Yeah, so I'm going to pick upfrom the dossier where Josh left
off.
So the story of Betty andBarney Hill isn't just one of
extraterrestrial encounters andstrange memories.
It's also a story of prejudice.
Betty and Barney were aninterracial couple in 1961, at a
time when such relationshipsfaced intense scrutiny and
stigma.
Betty was white, barney wasblack.
(06:28):
They lived in New Hampshire, apredominantly white region where
the relationship often drewunwanted attention.
When the Hills finally soughtmedical help to understand what
happened to them, they foundthemselves on the receiving end
of both skepticism and subtleprejudice.
Some questioned not only thevalidity of their account, but
also whether the stress of aninterracial marriage had driven
them to fabricate such a story.
Others insinuated that theirencounter was merely a fantasy
(06:51):
brought on by the pressures ofsociety.
For Betty and Barney, theirencounter marked the beginning
of a lifelong mystery, until herdeath in 2004,.
That's wild, yeah, she was like, I think, 85.
Betty Hill continued to believein her experience and, though
Barney passed away only a fewyears after the event, he too
insisted that they hadencountered something beyond our
understanding.
So Barney died at like 46.
(07:14):
Whoa, which, like I, am gettingdangerously close to in a
couple years.
I mean, that just sounds.
Do you know how he died, whathe?
Josh (07:23):
died of.
Travis (07:23):
No, couple years.
I mean that just sounds.
Do you know how he died?
What he died of?
No, but like he was a black man, you know, in the 60s probably
was not able to access the likemedical care that was, you know,
accessible to a lot of whitemen of the time yeah, it's
possible I shouldn't say I don'tknow, because the internet
exists so it is a pretty crazystory.
It it's bonkers Another way tosay crazy, sure it's cuckoo.
Josh (07:49):
It's wacky Goofy.
Travis (07:53):
We're really running through it Okay.
Josh (07:55):
That was a brief summary of what happened.
They see something in the sky,they have lost time, something
happens where they get sleepy.
They have period of space,actual distance that they
traveled, that they don'tremember.
They have nightmares and theyweren't able to know what
actually happened until somehypnosis and they have this
(08:17):
hypnosis online that you canwatch Beep, beep, beep, beep,
beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.
Travis (08:21):
Update on Barney Hill.
Yes, he died of a cerebralhemorrhage.
So you're precise, hill.
Yes, he died of a cerebralhemorrhage.
Super sus, yeah, whoa Was thatput there?
Josh (08:29):
Yeah, by the aliens.
Travis (08:32):
Well, Betty died a good long time after she was 85.
Josh (08:36):
This is women are stronger than men.
Travis (08:37):
She died of cancer, which comes for us all.
Josh (08:40):
It does, sadly, we're just going gonna get right into it.
I'm just gonna tell you rightwhat is legitimate about the
story.
Okay, okay, okay, because I'mnot gonna do this dance you're
not gonna do this dance no andthen suddenly the music comes on
and you're like can I?
Travis (08:58):
have this dance and I'm like god damn it.
Josh (08:59):
You said you weren't gonna dance with me I'm not doing
that, so here are some of thelegitimacy's around this
abduction.
There is hypnosis.
Travis (09:09):
Are you acknowledging that hypnosis?
Josh (09:11):
is a thing I am acknowledging that it happened.
Travis (09:14):
Okay, there was hypnosis .
Josh (09:15):
There was hypnosis.
There is some stuff about thehypnosis that some people find
very skeptical.
Travis (09:22):
Dangerous even.
Josh (09:23):
Yes, but there are some things that happen during the
hypnosis that stand out, andthat's the consistency between
their stories, sure.
Travis (09:32):
But that's a fucking ride or die man.
Betty and Barney Hill were rideor die.
They had been-.
Oh, I'm sorry, Did you knowthem?
Josh (09:38):
Did you talk to them?
Did they tell you this?
Travis (09:40):
I don't have to.
You can show me the proof.
They were an interracial couple, which means that they had been
put through some shit, I'm sure, and they both stayed together.
That's my favorite part of thisstory.
I think it's like this is.
The most beautiful part is thatthey were united in the story
that they were telling.
No matter what happened, they'dgotten their story straight and
(10:01):
they stuck to it.
They were each other's ride ordie man.
I love that.
Josh (10:04):
If you believe that they had to get their story straight,
or it could have just been thestory.
Yeah, I don't believe that youknow, because they recounted
remarkably similar experiences,but they had hypnosis happen at
different times and they weren'tinformed of what they told
during the hypnosis.
Their accounts includedconsistent details about the
craft, the appearance of thebeings and the medical
(10:27):
examinations, sure and thesequence of events.
Despite attempts to dismissthese recollections as
influenced by external factors,such as popular media, both
individuals maintained theiraccounts even after hypnosis
sessions concluded.
Well, what was the popular?
Travis (10:40):
media.
Back then there wasn't anypopular media regarding this.
There is.
Well, I guess we'll get to thatpart then.
I like that.
Their stories are consistentand I think that that shows an
open communication between thiscouple.
I think they shared each otherand, just like we've talked
about before, when you'recreating a memory, sometimes
it's false and sometimes youwant to believe something so bad
(11:01):
that that becomes your memory.
I'm not saying that'snecessarily the case, because
I'm going to try to keep an openmind on this, but I just think
that these two being unifiedunder so much pressure is a
testament not to the overallalien experience which they may
or may not have had, but it's atestament to their relationship
and how strong it was.
Josh (11:19):
Yeah, betty and Barney, were they in love?
Yes, yes.
Travis (11:23):
And she never remarried after he died.
She and barney, were they inlove?
Yes, and she never remarriedafter he died.
Josh (11:28):
She became like an icon in this movement, but, yeah, to go
against society and staytogether.
I can't imagine what that wouldbe like probably something
similar to my wife and his lovewhat a violation of society a
forbidden love yeah, because youwere like a quasimodo and she's
like a Esmeralda, I think thatwas her name.
Travis (11:47):
We were just here ringing the bells.
Josh (11:50):
And, yeah, I was thinking more Shakespearean.
But if you want to go the meanroute Like Hamlet, no, no.
So another thing is the missingtime.
Travis (12:01):
Yeah, which we talked about last week.
Right, this is what you calldrinking, that's true.
Josh (12:06):
So the Hills could not account for a pretty big chunk
of time during their drive, aphenomenon ufologists term
missing time.
This unexplained gap in theirrecollection strengthens the
possibility of an event theycould not consciously recall,
and that's kind of supportingthe potential validity of their
abduction case.
There's also physical evidence,like torn clothing.
(12:28):
Betty's dress was torn at thehem.
She had a pinkish powder foundon her dress, just an unusual
pink powder.
Barney had damaged shoes.
They were scraped at the toes.
Travis (12:39):
So side note here In grade school, what kind of soap
did you have, do you remember?
Josh (12:44):
In the school or at home in the school.
Travis (12:46):
What did it look like?
I don't remember you don'tremember being like a pink
powder?
Josh (12:50):
no, we didn't have powder, we had liquid soap we had
powder and it came in adispenser.
Travis (12:55):
Or if you put your hand underneath it and then you push
up on a little lever, the soapwould dispense so maybe, maybe
it was soap, or maybe it wasalien.
Maybe the aliens were just likewashing their hands of this
whole experience.
Josh (13:07):
Yeah, maybe the aliens in the lab in the space.
Travis (13:11):
They were using the same pink powder.
They were using the pink powder.
That was the technology at thetime here on Earth, because
that's where they were.
Josh (13:16):
Yeah, they couldn't go all the way back to get their own
soap.
Yep, they had to use what wasavailable.
Travis (13:20):
I like this.
Josh (13:25):
They're people too.
Galeans are people too.
So another thing about thephysical evidence is Barney's
binocular straps were torn andhe couldn't explain how it
happened.
The car trunk markings shinyconcentric circles on the car
trunk appeared after theincident.
Malfunctioning watches bothBetty and Barney's watches
stopped working after theencounter.
(13:47):
And then there was compassanomalies.
A compass rolled rapidly whenplaced near the marking on the
trunk, which is super weird.
A magnet could do that, but I'mthe believer here, so I'm
saying no magnet.
Travis (13:58):
You would say this is like your classic line compass
stagnant, no magnet.
Josh (14:03):
Yeah, I always say that Classic.
Travis (14:05):
Classic Josh, classic Josh.
You got that tattooed on yourinner arm.
Josh (14:09):
Yep, it was painful, but I'll never forget Worth it.
Travis (14:12):
Yeah, you try to work that into conversation every day
.
Josh (14:15):
There was also the Hill's background.
They were both respectedmembers of their community,
actively involved in civilrights work.
Their commitment to socialjustice and rational thought
makes it unlikely that theywould fabricate a story like
this, particularly in the socialclimate in the 1960s.
(14:36):
As an interracial couple, theyalready faced societal scrutiny
and may have been hesitant toattract further attention with a
fabricated story like this.
So the impact on their liveswith this story affected them
like crazy, leading them to seekmedical help and attempt to
understand their experiencethrough hypnosis that we talked
about.
Their willingness to discussthe events with the researchers
and undergo extensivepsychiatric evaluation
demonstrates the genuine impactof the event on their lives.
(14:58):
So I mean these are pretty bigthings that happen.
There's physical evidence,there's societal evidence,
there's hypnosis.
Even though there are someskeptical and dangerous things
about the hypnosis, it's still,I mean, the story's lining up.
Travis (15:12):
So it's not.
It's not backed up by science,like science is pretty much
thrown out hypnotism as a, as ameans of extracting information.
It's all subjective.
We don't use hypnotism anymore.
This is.
It was like a new thing backthen and kind of a novelty at a,
at a show.
Like if you want, this is realright, you can use it to help if
you're susceptible to it.
(15:39):
But it's just I look athypnotism, just a lot like some
people might look at and I'm nota hypnosis scientist, yeah, but
I think that there could beequal amounts of benefit from
hypnosis as you would get frommeditation when I was growing up
it was like hypnosis andacupuncture and all these kind
of naturopathic remedies, likeit just seemed as though that
was just woo-wah, and as I'vegotten older it seems that there
(16:03):
is some validity and now you'relike aha instead of woo-wah
yeah it.
Josh (16:07):
it just seems like they do work.
There is science backing it,there is things happening.
Travis (16:13):
I think it's more of a.
This is just me speaking as adumb idiot, travis sitting on a
couch with a good bud.
Josh, I think that it's amindfulness thing, like if you
want to quit smoking, say right.
And they say that hypnosis isvery effective at helping people
quit smoking.
If are dedicated enough to goand get hypnosis which is
something you have to pay,rather than just throw your pack
(16:34):
of cigarettes or cigars out orwhatever and just commit to it,
then that means you're dedicatedto doing it, and I think those
people that go and gethypnotized for smoking are
already on the.
I'm leaving the smoking campalready.
Josh (16:47):
They want to like sink that in their mind I think it's
actually more tapping into thesubconscious, because we're
operating at a conscious leveland there's lots of things going
on behind the scenes in ourbrain and we already know that.
The brain has a plasticity toit, so it can change.
It's also electrical, so youcan rewire it.
I believe that if you can tapinto the subconscious and change
(17:08):
the hardwiring thought processof your brain, Our brains are
essentially like two pounds offat that power a 150 pound being
through electricity.
Travis (17:17):
It is wild.
Brains are the wildest thingthey are.
Josh (17:20):
Yeah, and I think that hypnosis can tap deep inside of
that and change some of that.
Mindfulness definitely isalways important, but I think
it's real.
But there are ways to abuse itas well, and that's where a lot
of this debate comes is, youknow, is?
Is there prompts?
Is there?
I don't, I don't know.
Travis (17:39):
Well said, especially that last part.
Josh (17:41):
The I don't know.
Travis (17:42):
Yeah, Like build up to the I don't know.
Josh (17:44):
Yeah, I'm not a prompt scientist.
Travis (17:48):
Although my father was your father, dr Prompt, they
called him yeah.
So you do have some arguments.
Yeah, I'm just going to tuckinto this.
So these are some of thearguments that have been brought
up about the Betty and BarneyHill abduction.
There was a lack ofcorroborating evidence.
Many critics point to theabsence of strong physical
evidence to support the Hill'sclaims.
While some physical anomalieswere observed, such as the torn
(18:11):
clothing, trunk markings andmalfunctioning watches, these
elements lack definitive linksto an alien encounter, which is
what I agree.
The sources do not mention anyindependent verification of the
pinkish powder found on Betty'sdress, nor do they provide
conclusive evidence connectingthe compass anomalies to the
incident.
Additionally, no otherwitnesses came forward to
confirm the Hill's sighting ofthe UFO.
Additionally, no otherwitnesses came forward to
confirm the whole sighting ofthe UFO.
Josh (18:32):
So they're saying anyone could rip some clothes, stop a
watch, put some soap on it.
Travis (18:38):
Yeah, anybody could.
Yeah, that's like the wholetheme of this show so far.
Is you want to believe this sobad?
And I am looking at it likethis is one person saying that
they experienced something it isnot?
I'm not trying to invalidatewhatever they felt, but it
doesn't ever add up to me as anextraterrestrial experience Like
(18:58):
these can all be explained awayin very simple terms.
Josh (19:00):
And maybe that's what the aliens are trying to accomplish,
you know, maybe that's why theyleft these signs.
Travis (19:06):
Maybe this was Barney's whole play to just get a new
binocular strap.
He just couldn't, he just hewas like something happened my
binocular strap.
Josh (19:13):
He called to get a replacement and it was past its
warranty.
Travis (19:17):
Yep, and so he created this whole thing to get a new
strap.
It could be Okay.
There was also an influence ofexternal factors.
Researchers have proposed thatthe Hill's account's, particular
Barney's descriptions underhypnosis could have been
influenced by popular culture,particularly science fiction.
The timing of Barney's firsthypnotic session, just two weeks
after the broadcast of theBolero Shield episode of the
(19:38):
Outer Limits, which featured analien with large wraparound eyes
, raises questions aboutpotential subconscious influence
.
Additionally, other OuterLimits episodes airing around
the same time contain elementsmirroring aspects of the Hills
account, such as an alienmedical examination and the
protagonist's car being stoppedby extraterrestrials.
Critics argue that the Hillsmay have unintentionally
(19:59):
incorporated these fictionalelements into their memories,
which speaks to that likecreated memory or a false memory
narrative that I thinksurrounds a lot of these
incidences.
A lot of them have like missingtime or lost time.
Josh (20:12):
Yeah, I'm sure I've had false memories.
I just don't know how I couldwatch something on TV or hear
something and place that into mymind.
That's hard for me tocomprehend.
Yeah, but everyone hasdifferent minds, yep.
Travis (20:27):
Some of them are beautiful.
Josh (20:28):
Some of them are.
Travis (20:29):
Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the reliability
of hypnosis-induced memories.
Josh (20:35):
Yeah, I'm curious about this.
Travis (20:36):
A significant portion of the detailed account of the
abduction emerged duringhypnosis sessions conducted by
Dr Benjamin Simon.
Critics argue that memoriesretrieved through hypnosis are
susceptible to suggestion,confabulation and the influence
of the hypnotist.
Dr Simon himself concluded thatthe case was a singular
psychological aberration,suggesting that the abduction
(20:57):
narrative may have been aproduct of the Hill's
subconscious minds rather thanan actual event.
So Dr Simon is even saying thiscould have been a stored memory
from the TV show that they hadwatched weeks prior Interesting.
Okay, and it was in theirsubconscious, basically sure,
whatever that means, you knowwhat it means.
Yeah, below conscious yes thereare some alternative
(21:22):
explanations.
Skeptical researchers haveoffered alternative explanations
for the hills experience.
For example, jim mc McDonald, alocal resident, suggested the
Hills may have misidentified anaircraft warning beacon on
cannon mountain as a UFO.
The beacons appearance anddisappearance aligned with the
Hills description of the UFOsmovements.
Mcdonald attributes theremainder of their experience to
(21:42):
stress sleep deprivation andthe creation of false memories
during hypnosis.
Josh (21:46):
Yeah, I mean that kind of goes to like the Rendlesham
forest thing, where those peoplesaw something and the locals
were saying, oh, that's probablythe lighthouse.
Yeah, because they saw lightevery four seconds.
The lighthouse was on arotation every four seconds.
Travis (22:03):
Possible, possible, conceivable Aliens.
So Betty Hill had some laterUFO sightings.
Ufo researcher Robert Schiefferquestions Betty Hill's
credibility based on hernumerous UFO sightings after the
1961 incident.
Schieffer suggests that thesesightings, often of blips, blurs
and blobs in the sky I lovethat alliteration, by the way
(22:24):
Were misinterpretations ofordinary phenomena.
He recounts an instance whereHill allegedly mistook a
streetlight for a landed UFO.
Schieffer argues that thesecontinued questionable sightings
cast out on the credibility ofher original abduction claim.
Josh (22:37):
It's possible that she had her mind boggled in the
spaceship.
Travis (22:41):
But haven't you ever thought, like looked at
something?
And there are a lot of imagesonline, like just scrolling
through Instagram, where you'relooking at something and you are
like holy shit, what is wrongwith that kid's legs?
And you realize she's standingin a field of corn holding a
popcorn bag, but it looks likeher legs are junked up because
she's holding her popcorn bagkind of low.
Yeah, I saw something that'svery specific and it's probably
(23:04):
not going to translate very wellto an audio form, but you know
you can look at a picture.
It's kind of like those magiceye things where if you look at
something long enough it willbecome whatever.
Josh (23:14):
It's possible that she could, because there has been
instances in the past, a lot ofinstances, where people have an
alien encounter and then theyhave a lot of weird things
happen after the encounter.
So maybe she just continuallyhad weird things happen and the
aliens were taunting her andthen, jesus Christ I mean, it is
a possibility.
You know, I don't want to shamesomeone for seeing something
(23:35):
and or maybe maybe her mind wasjust starting to slip?
Travis (23:39):
We're not.
I mean, if that's the case,then everybody's mind is
slipping because we all wouldinterpret.
You could look at thesepictures you could see an
elephant or you could see aforest yeah Right.
And some of these drawings.
And at these pictures you couldsee an elephant or you could
see a forest yeah Right.
And some of these drawings.
And I think if your brain iswired to think that way, you're
going to continue to processimages in a way that reaffirms
your brain wiring Right.
Josh (23:59):
Yeah, it is true.
I mean, if she truly believesthat's what she saw and she's
living the rest of her life withparanoia and fear, she's going
to see a lot more things.
Travis (24:10):
Yeah, life with paranoia and fear, she's gonna see a lot
more things.
Yeah, like say, you're walkingdown the street and it's dark
and you're a woman and you see ayellow trash bag.
Am I going to shame you forthinking that's the cheese
goblin?
Josh (24:19):
no, what does that have to do with being a woman?
Travis (24:21):
I don't, I'm just saying well, I'm because betty.
Betty is a woman walking downthe street and she's made some
claims where she's seen somethings.
So she's walking down thestreet when maybe one of the
claims is she saw.
I don't know, I'd be scared ifI saw a cheese goblin.
I know, maybe if you walkcloser which you wouldn't do,
you never approach a cheesegoblin but if you didn't, maybe
it was just a yellow trash.
Josh (24:39):
You can approach it from behind and you'll be fine
because cheese goblins can'tturn their head right.
Travis (24:45):
That's their one weakness yeah, that's the lore.
If you approach them from anyother angle, though, it's
curtains for you.
Josh (24:53):
Yeah, you're donezo yeah.
Travis (24:55):
Okay, so these counterarguments contribute to
the ongoing debate surroundingthe legitimacy of Betty and
Barney Hill and their abduction.
While their story played apivotal role in shaping the
modern narrative of alienabductions, it remains a subject
of intense scrutiny andskepticism.
Josh (25:09):
But still a foundational landmark for the community.
And I mean there's not a lot ofespecially in that era there's
not a lot of very big abductionthings- there's people.
When things, weird things,happen, people don't talk about
it.
Travis (25:22):
Yeah, randy Quaid's character in Independence Day
said that he had been taken onboard a ship and had butt stuff
done to him, and that's why hedrives his plane into like the
mothership here oh, spoileralert oh shit.
Spoiler alert for id id4independence day yeah if you're
listening to this podcast, youprobably have that movie
memorized yes, great movie, yeah, and he, I mean that's a prime
(25:46):
example.
Josh (25:47):
You know he talked about what happened.
Travis (25:49):
Yeah, nobody believed him.
Josh (25:51):
No one believed him.
He was made fun of, he wasassaulted.
Travis (25:54):
Yeah, character was assaulted.
Randy Quaid wasn't assaulted.
Josh (25:57):
So yeah, the mystery of Betty and Barney Hill remains
one of the most compelling andhaunting cases in UFO lore.
For Betty and Barney, it was anexperience that would follow
them for the rest of their lives, which Barney wasn't very much
longer, but Betty it was thereand it filled them with
questions they could never fullyanswer.
So in the end, the truth of theHill abduction may always
(26:18):
remain a mystery, and I'm okaywith that.
So my final thoughts are theydefinitely experienced something
, something happened that wasunexplainable to them.
I think they did have lost time.
I think these things that Idon't think they did them
themselves, the physicalevidence, the tearing and the
markings on the car and allthese things I think they were
(26:41):
baffled.
I think it really fucked withtheir heads.
And when they talked to someonefor the first time, I think
they were frantic enough wherethe person's like, well, you
need to get some help.
So they went to a doctor andthey hypnotized him to figure
out, because that's what wasgoing on at the time.
You know like, well, we canhelp.
You see what really happenedthrough hypnosis.
(27:02):
It is possible that they tappedinto something from other
experiences, through media orother things that kind of
convoluted into their mindbecause they're already having
nightmares of similar things.
But it is possible.
I think this is definitely amaybe higher up to the yes, but
I mean, it is a forever mystery.
(27:23):
It'll always be a mystery,we'll never know.
Just because aliens are thatgood, all right, yep, all right,
they know what they're doing.
They traveled the cosmos.
They've been doing it for amillennia.
They, they know what they'redoing this ain't their first
rodeo?
Travis (27:38):
yep, sticking things up buttholes yeah, so is it aliens?
Josh (27:44):
yes, maybe, no, maybe no.
Mine is a maybe.
Okay, what about you?
Travis (27:48):
I think I'd come down similar to you in some ways.
I think this is just abeautiful story about a couple
who has endured a lot ofhardship and decided, through
all of this, they were going tostick together and damn whatever
everybody else thought.
They're going to tell theirstory, whatever that is,
(28:08):
whatever their experience wasand be true to themselves as a
couple.
I don't know that this happenedto them.
Maybe something happened.
I'm sure a lot of really fuckedup shit happened to interracial
couples and we know a lot offucked up shit happened to a lot
of black men at the time.
Yeah, now I'm not saying thatthis was something that they
(28:29):
were maybe trying to hidebecause something really
embarrassing happened on theirway home, but I'm not going to
rule it out because that sort ofthing.
There's documented evidence ofthat sort of thing happening
really embarrassing, verydegrading behavior inflicted on
by white people, and maybe itwas something embarrassing and
they didn't want to talk aboutit.
And this is the way they copewith it.
(28:49):
They repress this memory downand then created a story around
it to help them, because we alldo this in various ways.
We create our own narrative inour head to help us get through
what can be a very toughexistence.
I mean, we're all humans onthis planet dealing with things,
and maybe that's maybe that'swhat happened.
That's a good explanation, sothis is why I love the story.
(29:12):
So much, though, is that it'sjust.
It's a testament of a couplethat is very committed to each
other through thick and thinthrough thick and thin and have
each other's back all the way upuntil Betty died in 2004.
Josh (29:23):
All right.
Travis (29:23):
So I'm a maybe low, maybe to know.
Okay, this is a hard positionto take because it is their
singular experience that theyare telling everybody there
weren't any other witnesses,nobody could corroborate
anything that had happened.
So I'm a low, maybe high.
Josh (29:43):
No, all right, I'm okay with that.
Okay, I like it.
It's a different perspective.
I always need new perspectives,for sure, and it's something I
hadn't thought of.
It's great.
So we would love to hear whatyou guys think.
We'll have links in our shownotes and you can send us fan
mail.
Do you know what fan mail is?
Travis (30:02):
no, is it where people just send you fans?
Josh (30:05):
so they like, click a link in the show notes like fan mail
, and they can just text us andwe'll get notifications that
someone messaged us.
Travis (30:13):
Wild yeah, isn't that cool.
What a time to be alive andpodcasting.
Josh (30:17):
Yeah, so we would love to hear from you guys what you guys
think or if you have anyquestions, and we're super glad
that you're listening or stilllistening.
That's exciting.
Thank you, yep.
Okay, so that brings us to ourquiz.
Yep, our baseline quiz, to letyou know what kind of
information we know about thenext topic that we're going to
(30:37):
talk about.
Okay, baseline quiz.
Oh boy, and our next topic isthe Phoenix lights.
I am aware of this, I've seenshows about it.
Oh boy, and our next topic isthe Phoenix Lights.
I am aware of this, I've seenshows about it.
Travis (30:51):
Surprising no one Not familiar with this.
I thought the Phoenix Lightswas like a minor league sports
team, but I guess we'll find out.
Josh (31:02):
Yeah, we will.
Let's see what we know.
So the first question when didthe Phoenix Lights incident take
place?
Boom, 1986.
Travis (31:10):
Going with my gut.
Josh (31:11):
So is it A 1986, b 1992, c 1997, or D 2000?
You say 1986.
Travis (31:21):
1986.
With a bullet First, right outof the gate, I'm coming in.
Hot man I was thinking the 90s.
Okay, but there's two answersin the 90s?
Josh (31:30):
yeah, I'm gonna say 97.
Right, good pick, coward.
Yeah, thank you next questionwhat was the official
explanation given for the lightseen over phoenix at 10 pm?
Travis (31:44):
the a a meteor shower, b military illumination flares, c
search lights from a footballgame or d a large blimp okay,
I'm going search lights from afootball game to stay in line
with my minor sports team themethat I'm creating about this.
Josh (32:01):
So this is.
This is what you're going with,absolutely okay.
My answer is going to be bmilitary illumination flares.
Travis (32:10):
Okay next question.
Josh (32:12):
I know the answer to this one what celebrity reported
seeing the lights to air trafficcontrol?
Is that a?
Yep kurt russell yep b.
Mel gibson nope c.
John travolta nope d.
Travis (32:23):
Dustin hoffman nope uh kurt russell, you actually know
he's talked about it.
Well, he's talked about havingan experience I don't know.
Josh (32:31):
I'm just gonna go off of what you're saying because you
sound very sure, very confident.
Travis (32:36):
He was on like uh, him and his, his son, were on a show
talking about well, and kurt'salso a pilot right I think
they're all pilots?
Josh (32:44):
yeah, that's true, but that's why he was talking to air
traffic control, like he hadhim on speed dial.
Sure Interesting.
I had no idea that there wasany celebrity around that.
That's cool.
Next question Approximately howmany witnesses were there to
the Phoenix lights incident?
A, a few dozen, b, hundreds, c,thousands, d, tens of thousands
(33:08):
?
Travis (33:09):
that tens of thousands seems ludicrous.
So that's what I'm picking tensof thousands, oh wow, just
kidding, I'm gonna say hundreds,that's what I was thinking too,
yeah these things are alwaysinsane.
We talked about the aerialschool phenomena and I just
can't believe that all of thosekids claim to have seen the same
thing.
So I'm just I mean, I'm goingto err on the side of how insane
(33:31):
group sightings are yeah, andthere's a lot of group sightings
.
Josh (33:35):
This will be a fun episode .
Travis (33:36):
We're going to talk about kurt russell, one of my
favorite actors, at leastthrough like the 80s.
Okay, I love kurt russell.
Josh (33:44):
I do too and his son's doing really great work too.
All right, last question whattwo shapes were most commonly
used to describe the formationof lights?
A square and rectangular, btriangle and V shape.
C oval and boomerang.
Or D pyramid and diamond?
Travis (34:03):
I mean, what is a boomerang if not just a soft V?
So that's a little I'm gonnasay, just because of how
descriptive it is.
Josh (34:11):
I mean, come on, a soft V is very different than a V.
Travis (34:18):
No, it's not.
Josh (34:19):
Yeah, it is.
Travis (34:19):
No, it's not.
Josh (34:21):
V's are tight.
Travis (34:23):
Depends on your handwriting.
I mean, you could do a soft V.
Josh (34:26):
I would never do a boomerang for a V.
Travis (34:28):
I've done soft Vs before .
Josh (34:30):
I don't like this hey.
Travis (34:33):
So what do you think?
Oval and boomerang is what I'mpicking.
Josh (34:36):
Okay, I'm going to do pyramid and diamond Cool.
I don't know why, but it justkind of reminds me of aliens,
right?
Travis (34:44):
Yeah, that's reminds me of aliens, right?
Yeah, that's what this is about.
Your favorite neil's, neildiamond and neil pyramid yeah,
the inventor of the pyramid andthe inventor of the of diamonds.
Josh (34:55):
Yeah, all right.
So I'm gonna submit this shit.
Travis (34:58):
I'm gonna view my accuracy boy, was I wrong about
1986?
Josh (35:02):
oh, I was.
So the phoenix light incident.
The only one I got right waskurt russell.
Well, we don't want thelisteners to know that already.
All right, let's go through.
Travis (35:14):
Let's let's see these answers oh, it's fine, they know
the listeners are they alreadyknew.
No, the listeners if we havethem were screaming into their
speakers telling me that Ipicked wrong.
They were probably it wasprobably like a physical
response to me getting somethingwrong.
Josh (35:30):
Or there was people that didn't know, just like you.
Travis (35:32):
They're probably, like this guy's, a fucking idiot.
It is obviously 1997.
Josh (35:37):
I think our listeners are going to be cheering you on.
I don't think our listeners aremean.
I think they're like.
You can do it, travis.
Better luck next time, travis.
Travis (35:46):
What a Josh.
Again we have really goodlisteners, you're right.
Josh (35:51):
I know I'm right.
I'm right about all of thisAliens exist.
What a beautiful idea.
Yeah, so the Phoenix lightsincident took place in 1997.
Yeah, and you said what?
Travis (36:01):
1986.
Josh (36:03):
That's right, Okay.
Next question was what was theofficial explanation given to
the lights seen over Phoenix at10 pm?
Travis (36:11):
You said Searchlights from a football game, right?
Uh-huh, it was right.
Josh (36:17):
No, you're right, that is what you said, you're right, I'm
wrong.
Travis (36:21):
That's what you meant to say Well, I meant You're right.
I was that you are wrong.
Josh (36:26):
It seems as though I was right, but that's not what I was
trying to portray.
But yes, the answer wasmilitary, but yes.
I was wrong.
You were wrong.
I was right.
It was military illuminationflares because there was many
lights in the sky.
What celebrity reported seeingthe lights to air traffic
control?
Your one and only Kurt Russell.
Travis (36:45):
I had no idea that's bonkers control you're one and
only kurt russell yeah I had noidea that's bonkers yeah, my one
, and only I don't know your onetrue love, my, my lord and
savior, kurt russell so we bothgot that right.
Josh (36:58):
I only got it right because of you so does that
count double?
Travis (37:01):
then do I get double points for that?
Sure, I'm still failing lessfailing now cool yeah, you can
have two points great out of athousand.
Yeah, because every otherquestion is worth 250 points, I
answered the one that was onlyworth one point.
Josh (37:16):
You have two points now.
Yeah, two points, you have athousand.
So approximately how manywitnesses were there to the
phoenix?
I said hundreds, you saidhundreds.
Travis (37:28):
The answer was thousands .
Which kind of poo-poos?
Your theory of no, because Iinitially said tens of thousands
.
I was going the most extreme.
Josh (37:38):
I guess that's true, but you were saying that these are
crazy.
I mean, there's no way.
And now it's thousands, it'sworse, yeah, which makes it more
credible, right?
No, they's no way.
And now it's thousands.
It's worse, yeah, which makesit more credible, right?
No, they just saw lights.
So frustrating.
Travis (37:52):
They just saw lights.
I don't know what thisexperience is, I'm just judging
all my opinion based on thistest.
Josh (37:57):
That's true, okay, last question what two shapes are
most commonly used to describethe formation of lights?
I said pyramid and diamond.
Travis (38:05):
Yeah, describe the formation of lights.
I said pyramid and diamond.
Yeah, you said oval andboomerang, but I also said what
is a boomerang but if not a softV?
So I think partial credit.
Josh (38:14):
So you got half a point.
The answer is triangle and Vshape.
Two and a half points.
Two and a half points forTravis.
I got that wrong, so I only gotthree correct.
Travis (38:27):
Yeah, but we determined that all the questions that I
got right were one point.
Josh (38:30):
The ones you get right are , so I got 500 points because I
got two right and then you and Iboth I gave you my point you
got 251 points then.
Travis (38:38):
Then you gave that point to me, so you have 250 I'm
getting so confused with thesepoints right now this is a game
where the points don't matteryes, obviously whatever drew,
carrie says on whose line is itanyway?
Josh (38:49):
But it does matter to you, because you're getting real
upset Because I keep screwingthese up.
That's fine.
I just want to win, but youknow what you will when we talk
about it.
It's going to be awesome yeahit's going to be a good app and
I'm excited for all you guys tolisten and learn about a minor
sports team.
No, the true meaning of thePhoenix.
Travis (39:09):
Lions.
Josh (39:10):
Yes, christmas, all right, we will see you guys next week.
Travis (39:13):
Okay, thanks for listening.
Yep, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye,bye, bye.
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