March 14, 2025 • 32 mins
Did Travis Walton REALLY get beamed up by aliens, or was it the ultimate 70s prank gone wrong?
This week, we're dissecting the legendary Travis Walton abduction story, the one that inspired 'Fire in the Sky' and countless late-night debates. Was it a genuine close encounter, or just a really convincing tall tale? We'll dig into the evidence, the confession that shook the UFO world, and the million-dollar question: how far would you go for a good story (and maybe a quick buck from the National Enquirer)?
Prepare for a rollercoaster ride through alien encounters, questionable witnesses, and the slippery slope of belief.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh (00:03):
aliens aliens yes but maybe no.
Travis (00:20):
Hi guys, welcome to the show.
Aliens yes, but maybe no, withJosh and Travis.
I'm Travis and I'm Josh.
This is another worldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title, so
you listeners won't know this,but we took a bye week last week
.
Yeah, so your listeningexperience won't be interrupted.
(00:44):
Butosh and I are going to haveto work on our chemistry again,
because it's been two weekssince we've been in the same
room I mean, I'd like to thinkthat we have a forever chemistry
we do I think did I answer thatfast enough yeah, it was a
little suspicious actually
Josh (00:56):
uh, say it again I think we have a forever chemistry.
You don't even know what I wasgonna say I did.
Travis (01:03):
We'd already rehearsed it.
Josh (01:04):
We did a run through.
I was going to say chemistryset.
Travis (01:07):
Oh yeah, I mean, yeah, we are very into chemistry.
Josh (01:10):
Mm-hmm.
Travis (01:11):
Mixing potions.
Josh (01:13):
Yep, that's what we call them in the field that we're in.
Yeah, the warlock businessWarlock soup.
Travis (01:18):
Yep, yeah, it is Mix.
Fix it in a stump.
Josh (01:21):
Yeah, thank you for coming to listen again, or, if it's
your first time, welcome.
We don't know much.
Travis (01:29):
Yeah.
Josh (01:30):
We're just kind of taking this journey to learn and see
what's out there.
Travis (01:35):
Yeah, so don't come at us too hard.
Josh (01:37):
Yeah, last week we did the baseline quiz about this
episode topic and it's theabduction of Travis Walton.
Yeah, that's what we'recovering this week we'll have
another quiz at the end of theepisode to see where we're at
and what kind of knowledge weknow for the next episode.
Travis (01:53):
That's per usual.
There's gonna be a quiz at theend of every one of our episodes
.
Yeah, for us, not you.
Uh, well, I mean answer untillong yeah shout out the radio.
That's what I do all the timewhen I'm listening to a podcast.
Josh (02:04):
I just do a lot of yelling yeah, so yeah, travis walton,
1975, november 5th, a crewforestry workers made up of like
friends.
Travis (02:15):
So this is in snowflake nevada and they work in the
heber national forest.
Right, they get.
Josh (02:22):
They had bit a gig it seemed as though it was like
people.
You know, it's like we onlyhire friends and family.
Yeah, there were seven guysthey're finishing up work for
the day and they saw a UFO offthe side of the road.
Travis (02:36):
So they had actually got this gig.
They had underbid some of theother forestry contractors that
were in this area and were giventhis contract because they had
severely underbid thecompetition and they were given
a deadline of August to get thisjob done and they had to get an
extension to November and theywere.
(02:56):
I think Mike Rogers was theforeman that's Travis's future
brother-in-law he hadn't marriedand with the extension they
were on track to finish.
Josh (03:05):
But they were stressed, they were working long days.
Travis (03:08):
They were, I think, convinced of their own work, but
they said that everybody wasreally stressed.
They were committed to gettingit done and working on this
until their deadline or untilthey were told to stop.
Josh (03:21):
And they're about 80% done .
Sure, anyways, anyway.
Until they were told to stop.
And they're about 80% done.
Sure, anyways, anyway.
They saw a UFO after work onthe side of the road and one of
the loggers, a 22-year-old chapnamed Travis Walton, got out of
the truck.
They're all sitting in thetruck together.
Must have been a huge truck.
They're double bucklingprobably.
Travis (03:39):
Probably with people in the back.
Josh (03:41):
Yeah, travis got out of the truck to get a closer look
and was hit by a beam of lightfrom the ship, which knocked him
back several feet.
The crew panicked and droveaway.
Travis (03:54):
Everybody said that they had experienced something, they
saw light.
One of the other crew memberssaid they actually even saw a
ship.
Yeah, and travis immediatelylike they weren't stopped.
But he gets out of the trucklike before it stops, and just
starts walking towards it andthey're like what are you doing,
man?
They were freaking out.
He starts walking towards thelight and it knocks him down and
(04:15):
, yeah, whoever was driving thetruck freaked out and just
healed off.
Josh (04:19):
Yeah, just took off, left him there I mean that's huge
dick minor, you know.
That's why hit and runs likewhen you go to court, you can
actually use the excuse.
This is my natural instinct.
I'm sorry, I fled.
Some people freeze.
Some people run towards it,some people run away.
I'm a runaway.
Travis (04:38):
I'm a freezer, I think, just not do anything.
Josh (04:40):
Yeah, I've known people who freeze.
Yeah, I've known people whofreeze.
Yeah, I want to run away.
My wife is the opposite.
She'll run towards.
She knows I'm a runaway and Ithink it keeps her up at night.
Yeah, it scares her If there'sa big thing like am I just going
to run past the children?
I don't think I would do that,though I think I have enough
(05:01):
fatherly instinct.
All right, well, I guess that'sgoing to be my test.
The next week is to test that.
That would be horrifying.
So, yeah, these guys, the restof his crew, took off and then a
couple miles down the road,there's like wait, what are?
we doing yeah and they're likewe can't just leave someone out
in the middle of the wood.
So about 15 minutes later theyreturn to find travis and he's
(05:23):
gone.
So travis and the light in themiddle of the wood.
So about 15 minutes later thereturn to find Travis and he's
gone.
So Travis and the light in thecraft that they saw had vanished
, disappeared.
So the crew chief, MichaelRogers, reported that Travis was
missing to the Navajo Countysheriff sometime around 7 45 PM.
After initial questioning bypolice, there's a small search
effort to find Travis untilafter midnight.
(05:46):
When they called it all offuntil the morning.
How crazy did these guys sound?
Because they just mentionedeverything that happened.
Travis (05:55):
You're referencing the documentary that we watched
called Alien Abduction, TravisWalton Incident, right?
We watched that on HBO.
Josh (06:01):
Yeah.
Travis (06:02):
Okay, this was done.
What in 20.
When was that documentaryproduced?
Josh (06:09):
22, 2023?
.
Travis (06:10):
Well 2021,.
Mike Rogers released astatement saying he was making
the whole thing up, so I thinkthis documentary was before that
.
I don't remember Mike Rogersmuch in this documentary, though
if he's still even with us.
Josh (06:27):
This was 2022.
Okay, the crew chief mentionedthat.
He made it all up.
Travis (06:33):
Yeah, his brother-in-law said it was all made up, so
what happened?
We'll get, we'll get.
Okay, what he's saying hashappened and this incident is
widely viewed as a hoax by a lotof people within and outside of
the UFO community.
Josh (06:48):
Okay.
Travis (06:49):
What Mike Rogers had said is they were so far behind
their gig to avoid having to paywhat was then a steep penalty
of $2,500 to the forestryservice for not completing this
task.
Yeah, they had set this upbecause it could be viewed as an
act of God.
Josh (07:06):
And that would make it so they wouldn't have to pay.
Travis (07:08):
I don't know what the rate of inflation.
I don't know what $2,500 wasback in 1975, but it was
probably $10,000 plus.
Josh (07:16):
Yeah, I would imagine.
Travis (07:18):
So they said that they'd set up a work light off in the
woods and had set the wholething up and maybe a bug out
shelter for Travis to just campout in somewhere.
But he was picked up five orsix days later.
Josh (07:29):
Five days later.
Travis (07:30):
Yeah, he called from a payphone in an adjacent town.
Josh (07:34):
Yeah, far.
Away.
Travis (07:36):
Far enough, I mean, but not like.
It's not like a different state, it's not like he called from
Pennsylvania.
Josh (07:41):
But why would these guys stick with it for so?
Travis (07:43):
long, so just a couple of weeks before, there was a
biopic.
It was about Betty and BarneyHill.
Josh (07:48):
It starred.
Travis (07:50):
Maybe it was James Earl Jones.
He played Barney, and theythink that Travis and Mike had
watched this and thought thismight be our way out of this
contract.
This was all in a statementthat Mike had released in 2021.
Josh (08:05):
Interesting, interesting.
It ruined their lives, thoughwhy wouldn't they just come
clean?
It didn't really ruin Travis'slife.
Travis (08:13):
He got rights to adapt his story into the movie Fire in
the Sky so he got paid for that.
Now he's like a panelist andgoes to these UFO conventions
and I'm sure that comes with apaycheck.
It ruined some of the othercrew members' lives, like they
moved to other towns and refusedto talk about it.
Yeah, they were stigmatized.
(08:34):
The betty and barney hillincident that happened in the
60s and their story was adaptedinto a book called the
interrupted journey and thenthere was a televised event in
1975 called the ufo incident sothe betty and barney hill is
another abduction that happenedin New Hampshire in 1961 out of
their car.
Anyway.
So this TV show was aired,these guys had watched it and
(08:59):
had worked out a way to stage anabduction.
And even like a week before ithad happened, travis had told
his mom that if he were to getabducted by aliens, don't worry,
he's going to be fine, he'll behome, he'll make it out.
Josh (09:15):
Well, that's like your opinion, man.
Travis (09:17):
No, that's according to the Wikipedia entry on Travis
Walton.
Josh (09:20):
But we also know that there's people out there that
are I believe that are part ofthe government.
Changing Wikipedia is to makethe people look crazy, Okay.
Travis (09:29):
Or that sounds like a total normal stance on this,
josh, a total normal.
Josh (09:34):
Yeah, how much money do I have to pay you to believe I?
Travis (09:38):
know you have a price.
I don't know what it is.
We can talk off mic.
Josh (09:42):
Next episode?
You just believe.
Travis (09:45):
It's all real.
Yeah, I've got a diamond set ofglasses I pulled up in a Rivian
that'd be nice yeah, those are.
Josh (09:54):
Those are pretty sweet cars, they are so we talked
about what happened leading upto the incident.
For five days they were lookingfor walton.
It kind of turned on the menthat maybe he was killed or some
bad things happened, somestrange things were afoot.
Travis (10:10):
Yeah, they went through polygraph tests and they all
passed except one yeah, one guywho they said was the black
sheep of the crew yeah and Idon't know what that means.
I had some thoughts when I waswatching this documentary, but
those thoughts are gone I thinkmy first thought was just like
well, that's strange.
Josh (10:30):
Why'd they hire him if they knew he had prior they all
had prior run-ins with the law.
Travis (10:36):
So Travis and his brother-in-law in 1972 were
stealing checks from a companythey worked for and writing it
and cashing those checks.
Whoa and he got arrested for itand then put on probation.
Josh (10:48):
So you're saying that all these forestry workers had
run-ins with the law at somepoint?
Travis (10:53):
Yeah, our two main players did definitely.
Josh (10:55):
You did a lot of extra research.
Travis (10:57):
But I did a little bit, I looked up.
Josh (10:59):
I didn't.
I look, I just believe what Isee.
Travis (11:01):
I know I just I looked in here.
Most of the stuff is, I mean,Wikipedia is a great resource.
I I use Wikipedia a lot.
I think it's very helpful andthere's a lot of links and
things like that that you can godown.
So it's easy to go down littlerabbit holes, and this is one of
the rabbit holes I went down.
Josh (11:19):
Okay.
So for these five days Waltonwas missing.
In the original story, walton'sexperience in all this was that
he claimed he'd woken up in ahospital like room and being
observed by three short, baldcreatures.
Yeah, he fought with them untilthree possible humans
restrained him and put atransparent plastic mask over
(11:40):
his face.
Then he lost consciousness andthe next thing he remembered was
walking along a highway fivedays later, yeah, catching a
glimpse of the spacecraft as itdisappeared into the sky.
He originally thought he'd beenmissing for only five hours,
but later learned that he wasmissing for five days.
Travis (11:56):
Yeah, I believe it Well, he was missing for five days.
He was that is indisputable.
He was gone for five days.
His girlfriend, people thatwere involved in his life, very
personal people- they wereterrified.
They were scared and, of course,at first they thought it was
(12:18):
murder.
The sheriff and sheriff'sdeputy those guys are no longer
with us, but they talked todaughter of one of the sheriffs
in this documentary had saidthat the sheriff was telling the
crew during some of thesesearches Okay, you guys just
just tell me where you buriedhim, just tell me where the body
is, and this all can end.
This can all go away.
Josh (12:32):
Yeah, they're accusing him of murdering this guy.
They were accusing the wholecrew of murdering and because of
it's just crazy that these guysstuck with a lie when they're
being accused of potentialmurder.
Travis (12:44):
Well, they probably Mike Rogers and Travis Walton, I
think, are the architects ofthis.
Oh, and the other ones didn'tknow.
The other ones just didn't know.
Josh (12:53):
Interesting.
Travis (12:54):
They were just other crew members and because of
Travis's involvement with Mikeand the other crew member's
sister, they decided to bringhim in.
He probably had spent some timeand they'd watched this
documentary and they're like,okay, this is our chance.
We're not really that close togetting this job done.
We need to have something, someoutside force act on it so that
(13:16):
we can get out of having to paythis penalty.
So I don't think they told theother crew and so it was set up
in such a way and it hadhappened so fast.
I think Mike Rogers was thedriver of the truck.
He drove away really fast, soall they got was like lights out
in the forest, quick glimpse,yeah, quick glimpse.
And then it's easy to create amemory based on, you know, other
(13:40):
people's input.
That's how you get falsememories is that you hear enough
of an accounting and if traviscomes back and says this is what
happened I was abduct thosepeople are going to put the
pieces together of that storybased on their own information,
and then you start to get what'scalled like confirmation bias.
Josh (13:58):
Yeah, I think that's also the issue that you were talking
about with that hypnosis, likeregressive memory hypnosis
therapy, is that a lot of thescientific community doesn't
believe it, because in hypnosisyou can put in memories.
Well, but yeah, I mean meanpeople are very easily
influenced, people thatexperience hypnosis are
(14:18):
notoriously easily, notoriouslyeasily influenced.
Travis (14:19):
There are some people that just aren't susceptible to
it and some who are verysusceptible to it yeah, I've
tried being hypnotized, but itdidn't work for me I've never
tried to be hypnotized.
The idea, the whole idea of it,freaks me out a little bit.
Josh (14:30):
It is freaky.
It was like on a stage withpeople and it just didn't work
for me and it did for otherpeople and they just kicked me
off stage.
But I think I didn't want to behypnotized truly.
Travis (14:41):
Yeah, I would hope that if I was ever put in a situation
where I was going to gethypnotized, my willpower would
get through it where I was, justlike I don't want to be
hypnotized.
It sounds like a terrifyingexperience.
Josh (14:51):
But I heard one hour of hypnosis is like eight hours
worth of sleep.
Wow, that's wild.
Yeah, so, walton, he was gone.
He came back up.
He was walking on the highwaywhen he appeared.
There was a full-scaleinvestigation that included
polygraphs, psychologicalevaluations and physical
examinations.
Travis (15:11):
Everybody passed the polygraph, but polygraphs are
notoriously faulty.
There's like false negative orfalse positives.
With polygraphs it just dependson the person.
Josh (15:21):
But they're saying that that many people passing is very
bizarre.
One person passing like thatwouldn't hold up, but that many
people, I mean not really.
Travis (15:31):
If you believe that that's the story, then that's
the story, right, and you can.
You can convince yourself ofjust about anything I can.
Travis came back.
He was probably freaked out andI think the lie detector backed
that up and I think, witheverybody else, they honestly
believed that that was the storyand so it wasn't a lie to them.
Josh (15:47):
Yeah.
Travis (15:47):
The part that clutches it for me that this didn't
really happen was Mike comingout in 2021 and saying that it
was a hoax?
To who?
To your If?
Josh (15:58):
you say my mother.
Travis (16:00):
It came out to your mom.
So March 19, 2021, mike Rogersposted a statement to his
Facebook and I'm reading fromthe Travis Walton incident
Wikipedia page under thesubheading Rogers Walton dispute
of 2021.
Okay, Michael H Rogers, beingof sound and rational mind, do
(16:21):
hereby give notice that I am nolonger to be considered a
witness to Travis C Walton'ssupposed abduction of November
5th 1975.
He later clarified.
Travis tried to keep a newremake of the movie a secret
from me.
He's always had his big secret,so he has kept from me.
It angered me.
I tried over the last two weeksto reason with him, but of no
avail.
I don't believe Travis is anhonest person and therefore I
(16:42):
want nothing to do with him.
He had really said on hisFacebook page Wow.
On April 30th, rogers placed acall to producer Ryan Gordon who
was working on a new film aboutthe Walton incident.
Gordon recorded the callwithout Rogers' knowledge, as
permitted by Arizona law.
Two months later, on July 4th,gordon publicly posted audio
from the call, which featuredRogers explaining we were
(17:08):
talking in the woods one day.
We were talking about creatinga UFO hoax.
Okay, I don't know how the UFOgot there, but I remember when I
was driving the truck and hejumped out.
It was all deliberate, it wasall a staged thing.
Okay, he ran up there and therewas something about the UFO not
being real, although it lookedreal.
Rogers and Walton laterreconciled and Rogers issued a
statement retracting hisconfession Interesting, and I
think that there's probablymoney involved If there was
going to be a remake.
(17:28):
Of course, the studio is goingto offer money to use his rights
again, because I'm sure he ownsthe rights to his own story.
I don't know, though.
That might not be true.
It might be owned by whoeverproduced or distributed Fire in
the Sky, but it was based onTravis's book.
Fire in the sky is based on the, the incident but didn't travis
write a book in 1978 he wrotethe walton experience which was
(17:50):
adapted into the 1993 film firein the sky.
okay sold his story to tab boy,the national inquire, which
published the account andawarded the crew a $5,000 prize.
So through the NationalEnquirer, which Bat baby, bat
boy.
Yeah, bigfoot, that's theirmain stars.
Josh (18:08):
That was my favorite part of waiting in lines as a kid.
Travis (18:10):
Yeah, I was looking like oh, bat Boy's popped up again.
Oh how nice.
I'm glad he's doing well.
Josh (18:15):
Wow, that baby weighs 500 pounds.
That was great.
I never saw fire in the sky.
I'm not a big horror filmperson.
Travis (18:24):
I wouldn't say horror.
It's like it's sci-fi, but itis scary.
There are elements of likesupernatural.
Josh (18:30):
I watched the trailer and that looks spooky.
Travis (18:33):
The abduction is very scary.
Josh (18:34):
Yeah, it looks like they embellished a little bit on what
happened in the spaceship andthey made it like a horror
thriller, sci-fi action.
Yeah, I mean it looks like theydid a good job.
Travis (18:45):
Yeah, no, it's it, it's good.
I haven't seen it in many years, but uh, there's a reason for
that is because it reallyfreaked me out when I first saw
it yeah, well, I'm secondguessing with all the
information you're giving me.
Josh (18:57):
So are you saying that aliens know?
In this situation, I'm sayingaliens.
Travis (19:02):
Know, in this specific situation we're all on the same
journey here me, you and youlisteners out there we're trying
to figure out what's going ontrying to figure out what's
going on.
This is to me.
Josh (19:11):
That was a no okay, I'm gonna say maybe, oh okay, just
because I mean, I don't have allthe information we don't know
for a fact yeah with travisbeing very successful.
Because of this whole story andcontinued success, I could see
why he could keep it going yeah,he wants to propagate this myth
.
Travis (19:30):
He wants this to keep going because this has become
his identity he's known as thefire in the sky guy yeah, cool
thing to be known for sure man,I mean, and if that's what
you're known for, you're gonnawant to ride that pony till it
collapses yeah and it soundedlike it got near collapse in
2021 I, I'm gonna stick with, uh, maybe, okay, it can't be a
(19:51):
definite yes or a definite nofor me it's a definite no for me
.
Okay, probably surprisingnobody um yeah let us know what
you think.
Josh (20:01):
Tell us your inside information that you have.
Like we mentioned last week,don't give us anything that is
important.
Travis (20:09):
Please, god, we do not want that responsibility.
Yeah, giving it to us would bevery irresponsible of you.
We're very irresponsible people.
I wouldn't even know what to dowith it.
I would delete it.
Yeah, oopsie, delete.
Find someone else, give what todo with it.
I would delete it.
Yeah, oopsie.
Josh (20:23):
Delete, find someone else, give it to Jeremy Corbell.
Travis (20:26):
Yeah, he's more suited.
Yep.
Link in the show notes for howto reach Jeremy Corbell.
Yeah, in fact, direct all ofyour questions about our podcast
to Jeremy Corbell atjeremycorbell at gmailcom.
I'm sure jcorbell at gmailcom.
Yep, I'm sure jcorbell atgmailcom.
Josh (20:40):
Yep, I'm sure it'll work.
Travis (20:42):
That's where all of our emails are going to go.
Now we're going to justredirect it.
Josh (20:46):
Yeah, we don't need that.
Travis (20:48):
No, we don't need that.
I don't want that kind ofpressure.
Josh (20:50):
So next week this is going to be a fun one we're going to
give you a little sneak peekwith a quiz, and the topic is
men in black.
Travis (21:01):
Yep and the show quiz.
Well, now that we're on thequiz part, I'm going to say our
great researcher, jordan, fuckedup and sent me the quiz before
taking it today, so I had sometime to do some research you
cheated.
Josh (21:17):
This is the first time I'm opening this quiz up.
Travis (21:21):
I can't be trusted with informationosh.
That's what I'm saying.
I am irresponsible that'shorrible.
Josh (21:28):
Well, I guess the quiz is just for me I'm still gonna fail
it.
Travis (21:30):
I know I'm going to.
Josh (21:32):
I'll still mess it up all right, my men in black.
Knowledge is from the moviesyeah I did listen to one podcast
episode about it.
That information is somewherein my mind palace.
I don't know if I can access it, hopefully, but we'll find out,
All right.
So the first question the menin black are often described as
wearing what distinctive type ofclothing?
Travis (21:53):
Okay, this is like the easiest question on here.
This is yeah.
Josh (21:56):
Black robes, black suits and sunglasses, black jumpsuits,
black military uniform we allknow it's black suits and
sunglasses Easy.
black jumpsuits, black militaryuniform we all know it's black
suits and sunglasses easy.
I could do this all night long.
Yeah, just answer this onequestion, yeah, yeah, all right.
The next question what is theprimary purpose of the men in
black's visits, according towitness reports?
Okay, so a to offer protectionfrom aliens.
(22:19):
B To warn witnesses to remainsilent about what they have seen
.
C To recruit people into secretgovernment programs or D To
explain the phenomenon of UFOsightings.
Travis (22:34):
What are you going to say?
Josh (22:35):
It's to warn witnesses to remain silent about what they
have seen.
That's what I was going to saytoo, because you cheated.
Travis (22:42):
I mean that one is not a .
That's not much of a cheat,though that's classic men in
black behavior.
I mean they have the neuralyzerin the movie.
Josh (22:51):
The next question.
Witnesses often describe themen in black as lacking what
common human characteristic?
Travis (22:58):
Oh, this is an interesting one.
Josh (23:00):
This is, I don't know Okay , is.
Oh, this is an interesting one.
This is, I don't know Okay, isit?
A fingernails Uh-huh, b,eyebrows, mm-hmm.
C, hair on their head, or D allof the above?
Travis (23:11):
So this is one that I wasn't sure of.
So I did look up physicalcharacteristics and they said
that a lot of these men in blackfigures wear a hat, and so it's
hard to determine facialcharacteristics, but for the
purposes of this quiz, I'm goingto say D, all of the above.
Josh (23:30):
Fingernails too.
Uh-huh, that's creepy.
Travis (23:33):
Yeah, some people think that they're either time
travelers or from another planet.
They're actually aliens here toprotect their own secrecy.
Josh (23:43):
Crazy.
All right, so I'm going to do D.
All the above.
They're lacking.
All of these things.
All these things Fingernails,eyebrows, hair on the head, yeah
.
Next question In many accounts,how are their voices described?
A high pitched and squeaky.
B high pitched and squeaky.
B deep and robotic, c calm andmelodic or D muffled and hard to
(24:06):
understand.
Travis (24:07):
How would you describe our voices on this podcast?
Josh (24:10):
Hmm, it wouldn't be any of those.
Travis (24:12):
Would you fit any of these now?
Josh (24:14):
I wouldn't.
I mean we're not calm.
No, I don't think we're thatdeep.
We're definitely nothigh-pitched and squeaky,
muffled and hard to understand.
Travis (24:22):
Maybe yeah, but I don't know this answer my inside voice
and my brain is, I would say,calm and melodic, but everybody
else in my life is like, uh,kind of like an annoying
know-it-all.
It's kind of how you are.
That's not like.
I'm asking about the tone of ofmy voice, not my attitude my
(24:43):
inside voice?
Josh (24:46):
deep and melodic, oh okay.
Or deep and calm, perfect.
Yeah, I'm gonna answer deep androbotic, okay I'm gonna say
high pitched and squeaky oh,that's weird well, it is weird
they are weird, they are I mean.
So the next question when didthe first reports of the men in
black begin to emerge?
(25:07):
A 1886, b 1929, c 1947, or D1962.
Travis (25:17):
I know we talked about this, I think, on one of our
other shows.
Josh (25:20):
I'm going to say 1947.
Travis (25:23):
I'm going to say 1947 too, even though my gut is
telling me 1962, because that'sa year after the betty and
barney hill incident and therewere reports of men in black
approaching them my gut'stelling me 1886 whoa okay all
right, wow, pick that, pick your, go with your gut.
Josh (25:41):
But my mind is telling me 1947.
Well, well, you've got a mindlike a steel trap, josh, just
because there hasn't been manyincidences before that.
Travis (25:49):
So what are you going to pick?
Josh (25:50):
I'll do 1886, A I'll do 1947.
Travis (25:53):
Okay.
Josh (25:54):
The next question the men in black are often reported to
have.
What kind of unusual physicalappearance Is it A glowing red
eyes, b pale skin, skin almostwaxy, c extremely tall and
muscular, or d all of the above?
Travis (26:10):
I agree with two of those descriptions the tall and
muscular one I don't I'm notreally sure of, but glowing red
eyes I read about you've alwaysbeen kind of afraid of tall and
muscular I am because I I'mafraid of what I see in the
mirror every day.
What it boils down to is I'mbasically afraid of myself.
Okay, what do you have?
(26:32):
Do you have something to say,josh, or you just cleared?
no, that was all I needed um,I'm going to say all of the
above, even though I don't thinkone of those fits from what
I've seen the pale skin and waxyand tall and muscular.
Josh (26:45):
Those seem to fit the glowing red eyes.
They're wearing sunglasses.
How do they know?
Travis (26:50):
Some accounts said they have eyes that are very luminous
, like bulbs.
Josh (26:53):
Well, I'm just going to say extremely tall and muscular.
Travis (26:57):
Okay, this extremely tall and muscular is also a
description of the Nordic alien.
Josh (27:03):
Yes, I think that that kind of fits, which is the kind
of humanoid-looking aliens thatWalton said he encountered.
Travis (27:11):
It's a very Western culture description of aliens.
I am of the thinking if aliensare actually out there, there is
no reason to believe that theyevolved the same way that we did
, or they're bipedal, they walkaround on two arms, two legs.
Josh (27:24):
They're saying that there's multiple kinds of aliens
sure.
Travis (27:27):
I don't see it very likely.
Given our very specificevolution here on planet earth,
I don't think that the evolutionon another planet is going to
be the same yeah, I don't thinkwe could be looking at something
that looks like a squid or anoctopus or whatever.
Those could be aliens that areplopped down, you know, in our
waters, but I don't necessarilysee them being two arms, two
(27:52):
legs, two eyes, a nose, a mouthkind of alien, I don't know.
Josh (27:57):
Well, hopefully we'll find out in our lifetime.
Travis (27:59):
Hopefully we'll find out in our lifetime.
Okay, last question.
Josh (28:02):
Last question which of the following is a common theory
about the true identity of themen in black?
Is it a they are time travelersfrom the future, b their aliens
disguised as humans, c theirgovernment agents from a secret
agency, or d all of the above?
Travis (28:21):
why not?
Josh (28:21):
all yeah.
I was gonna say all yeah.
I mean some people say thatmaybe we're already working with
aliens, so it could be aliensworking for a government agency,
but then I mean we work formoney what are they working for?
What are they working for?
A?
Travis (28:38):
passport to live on this planet have you access?
Have you seen men in black?
They have a whole likesubdivision that works on like
aliens and it's funny illegalaliens being here and then they
get sent back to their planetbecause their paper requests had
filled out properly so theyjust want to live and run a
little bodega they want to livehere because maybe, uh, just
(28:59):
just like how we have a lot ofpeople crossing the border and
coming here to the united states, they're fleeing something that
is terrifying andlife-threatening to them
Interesting.
And they want a better life fortheir family.
So they came here because it'san easier life and that maybe
their, whatever their homeplanet is not the best place for
them to live.
Okay, and they have anopportunity.
Space tourism too.
(29:19):
Maybe they're just here, likegoing to France.
Yeah, just visiting here, likegoing to france yeah, just you
know like the conehead said.
Conehead said they were fromfrance.
That's why they're so weirdbecause no one knew yeah all
right.
Josh (29:29):
So we both said all the above.
Travis (29:31):
I'm gonna submit you my accuracy oh, oh, I missed two I
missed two as well okay, so Igot the first question right
black suits and sunglasses obvi.
Josh (29:45):
Yeah.
Travis (29:46):
Obvious choice.
Number two we both got thatright.
Warn witnesses to remain silentabout what they have seen.
That's the purpose of the menin black.
Yeah Three they described themen in black as missing
fingernails, eyebrows and hairon their head.
We got that right.
That's crazy.
In many accounts, how are theirvoices described?
I said high-pitched and squeaky.
Josh (30:04):
Ooh, I said deep and robotic, and that's right.
That's right Deep and robotic.
Travis (30:09):
So deep and robotic, fine.
When did the first report ofthe men in black begin to emerge
?
Josh (30:14):
Ah, I changed it 1947, baby, my mind was right, my gut
was wrong.
Travis (30:20):
What a dumb idiot, Josh.
I know you are a dumb idiot,Josh.
I know you are a dumb dumb Iknow, but you've been alive this
long because you've trustedyour gut.
Josh (30:26):
No, oh no, I've been trusting my mind.
Travis (30:28):
Oh shit.
Josh (30:30):
Yeah, I'm never going to go with my gut again.
Travis (30:33):
Men in Black often report I have what kind of
unusual physical appearance.
I said all of the above.
That is incorrect.
What did you?
Josh (30:40):
get Tall and muscular.
I said extremely tall andmuscular.
That is incorrect.
Yeah, the answer was pale skinand almost waxy.
Travis (30:49):
Oh, then I read the wrong thing.
Well, maybe I didn't read thewrong thing.
Maybe there's just so manyaccounts out there there could
be Okay.
And then the last one.
What is a common theory aboutthe trade?
Any of the men in black, all ofthe above Time travelers,
aliens dressed as humans and orgovernment agents from a secret
agency?
Josh (31:07):
And I say why does it have ?
Travis (31:08):
to be, or why can't, why not?
Josh (31:10):
And yeah, I think everyone has a place in this.
I'm open to whatever.
Okay, well, cool, well, thankyou for listening.
Uh, next episode is we're goingto figure out what this men in
black business is.
Yeah, yeah, episode is.
Travis (31:26):
We're gonna figure out what this men in black business
is.
Yeah, yeah, really gonna figureit out.
We're still waiting on um, thedirector of men in black.
Uh, but next we will tell youit's going to be.
Will smith will be on the show.
Tony shalhoub will be on theshow.
Josh (31:35):
Tommy lee jones will be here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we willhave a real men in black on the
show.
Yeah, a waxy, not tall andmuscular.
Yeah, finger nail-less,hairless, eyebrow-less.
Travis (31:48):
Oh man, it's going to be a painful week for one of us.
Josh (31:51):
It's going to be you.
Travis (31:52):
You already don't have hair, so I'm but I am tall and
muscular as we've described, soyou're going to have to get real
big.
You're going to have to losethat.
Okay, lose that.
No, okay, well, thank you forlistening.
Get a hold of us if you want.
Yeah, have a great week.
Yeah, thanks for listening.
Bye.
aliens aliens yes but maybe no.
Travis (00:20):
Hi guys, welcome to the show.
Aliens yes, but maybe no, withJosh and Travis.
I'm Travis and I'm Josh.
This is another worldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title, so
you listeners won't know this,but we took a bye week last week
.
Yeah, so your listeningexperience won't be interrupted.
(00:44):
Butosh and I are going to haveto work on our chemistry again,
because it's been two weekssince we've been in the same
room I mean, I'd like to thinkthat we have a forever chemistry
we do I think did I answer thatfast enough yeah, it was a
little suspicious actually
Josh (00:56):
uh, say it again I think we have a forever chemistry.
You don't even know what I wasgonna say I did.
Travis (01:03):
We'd already rehearsed it.
Josh (01:04):
We did a run through.
I was going to say chemistryset.
Travis (01:07):
Oh yeah, I mean, yeah, we are very into chemistry.
Josh (01:10):
Mm-hmm.
Travis (01:11):
Mixing potions.
Josh (01:13):
Yep, that's what we call them in the field that we're in.
Yeah, the warlock businessWarlock soup.
Travis (01:18):
Yep, yeah, it is Mix.
Fix it in a stump.
Josh (01:21):
Yeah, thank you for coming to listen again, or, if it's
your first time, welcome.
We don't know much.
Travis (01:29):
Yeah.
Josh (01:30):
We're just kind of taking this journey to learn and see
what's out there.
Travis (01:35):
Yeah, so don't come at us too hard.
Josh (01:37):
Yeah, last week we did the baseline quiz about this
episode topic and it's theabduction of Travis Walton.
Yeah, that's what we'recovering this week we'll have
another quiz at the end of theepisode to see where we're at
and what kind of knowledge weknow for the next episode.
Travis (01:53):
That's per usual.
There's gonna be a quiz at theend of every one of our episodes
.
Yeah, for us, not you.
Uh, well, I mean answer untillong yeah shout out the radio.
That's what I do all the timewhen I'm listening to a podcast.
Josh (02:04):
I just do a lot of yelling yeah, so yeah, travis walton,
1975, november 5th, a crewforestry workers made up of like
friends.
Travis (02:15):
So this is in snowflake nevada and they work in the
heber national forest.
Right, they get.
Josh (02:22):
They had bit a gig it seemed as though it was like
people.
You know, it's like we onlyhire friends and family.
Yeah, there were seven guysthey're finishing up work for
the day and they saw a UFO offthe side of the road.
Travis (02:36):
So they had actually got this gig.
They had underbid some of theother forestry contractors that
were in this area and were giventhis contract because they had
severely underbid thecompetition and they were given
a deadline of August to get thisjob done and they had to get an
extension to November and theywere.
(02:56):
I think Mike Rogers was theforeman that's Travis's future
brother-in-law he hadn't marriedand with the extension they
were on track to finish.
Josh (03:05):
But they were stressed, they were working long days.
Travis (03:08):
They were, I think, convinced of their own work, but
they said that everybody wasreally stressed.
They were committed to gettingit done and working on this
until their deadline or untilthey were told to stop.
Josh (03:21):
And they're about 80% done .
Sure, anyways, anyway.
Until they were told to stop.
And they're about 80% done.
Sure, anyways, anyway.
They saw a UFO after work onthe side of the road and one of
the loggers, a 22-year-old chapnamed Travis Walton, got out of
the truck.
They're all sitting in thetruck together.
Must have been a huge truck.
They're double bucklingprobably.
Travis (03:39):
Probably with people in the back.
Josh (03:41):
Yeah, travis got out of the truck to get a closer look
and was hit by a beam of lightfrom the ship, which knocked him
back several feet.
The crew panicked and droveaway.
Travis (03:54):
Everybody said that they had experienced something, they
saw light.
One of the other crew memberssaid they actually even saw a
ship.
Yeah, and travis immediatelylike they weren't stopped.
But he gets out of the trucklike before it stops, and just
starts walking towards it andthey're like what are you doing,
man?
They were freaking out.
He starts walking towards thelight and it knocks him down and
(04:15):
, yeah, whoever was driving thetruck freaked out and just
healed off.
Josh (04:19):
Yeah, just took off, left him there I mean that's huge
dick minor, you know.
That's why hit and runs likewhen you go to court, you can
actually use the excuse.
This is my natural instinct.
I'm sorry, I fled.
Some people freeze.
Some people run towards it,some people run away.
I'm a runaway.
Travis (04:38):
I'm a freezer, I think, just not do anything.
Josh (04:40):
Yeah, I've known people who freeze.
Yeah, I've known people whofreeze.
Yeah, I want to run away.
My wife is the opposite.
She'll run towards.
She knows I'm a runaway and Ithink it keeps her up at night.
Yeah, it scares her If there'sa big thing like am I just going
to run past the children?
I don't think I would do that,though I think I have enough
(05:01):
fatherly instinct.
All right, well, I guess that'sgoing to be my test.
The next week is to test that.
That would be horrifying.
So, yeah, these guys, the restof his crew, took off and then a
couple miles down the road,there's like wait, what are?
we doing yeah and they're likewe can't just leave someone out
in the middle of the wood.
So about 15 minutes later theyreturn to find travis and he's
(05:23):
gone.
So travis and the light in themiddle of the wood.
So about 15 minutes later thereturn to find Travis and he's
gone.
So Travis and the light in thecraft that they saw had vanished
, disappeared.
So the crew chief, MichaelRogers, reported that Travis was
missing to the Navajo Countysheriff sometime around 7 45 PM.
After initial questioning bypolice, there's a small search
effort to find Travis untilafter midnight.
(05:46):
When they called it all offuntil the morning.
How crazy did these guys sound?
Because they just mentionedeverything that happened.
Travis (05:55):
You're referencing the documentary that we watched
called Alien Abduction, TravisWalton Incident, right?
We watched that on HBO.
Josh (06:01):
Yeah.
Travis (06:02):
Okay, this was done.
What in 20.
When was that documentaryproduced?
Josh (06:09):
22, 2023?
.
Travis (06:10):
Well 2021,.
Mike Rogers released astatement saying he was making
the whole thing up, so I thinkthis documentary was before that
.
I don't remember Mike Rogersmuch in this documentary, though
if he's still even with us.
Josh (06:27):
This was 2022.
Okay, the crew chief mentionedthat.
He made it all up.
Travis (06:33):
Yeah, his brother-in-law said it was all made up, so
what happened?
We'll get, we'll get.
Okay, what he's saying hashappened and this incident is
widely viewed as a hoax by a lotof people within and outside of
the UFO community.
Josh (06:48):
Okay.
Travis (06:49):
What Mike Rogers had said is they were so far behind
their gig to avoid having to paywhat was then a steep penalty
of $2,500 to the forestryservice for not completing this
task.
Yeah, they had set this upbecause it could be viewed as an
act of God.
Josh (07:06):
And that would make it so they wouldn't have to pay.
Travis (07:08):
I don't know what the rate of inflation.
I don't know what $2,500 wasback in 1975, but it was
probably $10,000 plus.
Josh (07:16):
Yeah, I would imagine.
Travis (07:18):
So they said that they'd set up a work light off in the
woods and had set the wholething up and maybe a bug out
shelter for Travis to just campout in somewhere.
But he was picked up five orsix days later.
Josh (07:29):
Five days later.
Travis (07:30):
Yeah, he called from a payphone in an adjacent town.
Josh (07:34):
Yeah, far.
Away.
Travis (07:36):
Far enough, I mean, but not like.
It's not like a different state, it's not like he called from
Pennsylvania.
Josh (07:41):
But why would these guys stick with it for so?
Travis (07:43):
long, so just a couple of weeks before, there was a
biopic.
It was about Betty and BarneyHill.
Josh (07:48):
It starred.
Travis (07:50):
Maybe it was James Earl Jones.
He played Barney, and theythink that Travis and Mike had
watched this and thought thismight be our way out of this
contract.
This was all in a statementthat Mike had released in 2021.
Josh (08:05):
Interesting, interesting.
It ruined their lives, thoughwhy wouldn't they just come
clean?
It didn't really ruin Travis'slife.
Travis (08:13):
He got rights to adapt his story into the movie Fire in
the Sky so he got paid for that.
Now he's like a panelist andgoes to these UFO conventions
and I'm sure that comes with apaycheck.
It ruined some of the othercrew members' lives, like they
moved to other towns and refusedto talk about it.
Yeah, they were stigmatized.
(08:34):
The betty and barney hillincident that happened in the
60s and their story was adaptedinto a book called the
interrupted journey and thenthere was a televised event in
1975 called the ufo incident sothe betty and barney hill is
another abduction that happenedin New Hampshire in 1961 out of
their car.
Anyway.
So this TV show was aired,these guys had watched it and
(08:59):
had worked out a way to stage anabduction.
And even like a week before ithad happened, travis had told
his mom that if he were to getabducted by aliens, don't worry,
he's going to be fine, he'll behome, he'll make it out.
Josh (09:15):
Well, that's like your opinion, man.
Travis (09:17):
No, that's according to the Wikipedia entry on Travis
Walton.
Josh (09:20):
But we also know that there's people out there that
are I believe that are part ofthe government.
Changing Wikipedia is to makethe people look crazy, Okay.
Travis (09:29):
Or that sounds like a total normal stance on this,
josh, a total normal.
Josh (09:34):
Yeah, how much money do I have to pay you to believe I?
Travis (09:38):
know you have a price.
I don't know what it is.
We can talk off mic.
Josh (09:42):
Next episode?
You just believe.
Travis (09:45):
It's all real.
Yeah, I've got a diamond set ofglasses I pulled up in a Rivian
that'd be nice yeah, those are.
Josh (09:54):
Those are pretty sweet cars, they are so we talked
about what happened leading upto the incident.
For five days they were lookingfor walton.
It kind of turned on the menthat maybe he was killed or some
bad things happened, somestrange things were afoot.
Travis (10:10):
Yeah, they went through polygraph tests and they all
passed except one yeah, one guywho they said was the black
sheep of the crew yeah and Idon't know what that means.
I had some thoughts when I waswatching this documentary, but
those thoughts are gone I thinkmy first thought was just like
well, that's strange.
Josh (10:30):
Why'd they hire him if they knew he had prior they all
had prior run-ins with the law.
Travis (10:36):
So Travis and his brother-in-law in 1972 were
stealing checks from a companythey worked for and writing it
and cashing those checks.
Whoa and he got arrested for itand then put on probation.
Josh (10:48):
So you're saying that all these forestry workers had
run-ins with the law at somepoint?
Travis (10:53):
Yeah, our two main players did definitely.
Josh (10:55):
You did a lot of extra research.
Travis (10:57):
But I did a little bit, I looked up.
Josh (10:59):
I didn't.
I look, I just believe what Isee.
Travis (11:01):
I know I just I looked in here.
Most of the stuff is, I mean,Wikipedia is a great resource.
I I use Wikipedia a lot.
I think it's very helpful andthere's a lot of links and
things like that that you can godown.
So it's easy to go down littlerabbit holes, and this is one of
the rabbit holes I went down.
Josh (11:19):
Okay.
So for these five days Waltonwas missing.
In the original story, walton'sexperience in all this was that
he claimed he'd woken up in ahospital like room and being
observed by three short, baldcreatures.
Yeah, he fought with them untilthree possible humans
restrained him and put atransparent plastic mask over
(11:40):
his face.
Then he lost consciousness andthe next thing he remembered was
walking along a highway fivedays later, yeah, catching a
glimpse of the spacecraft as itdisappeared into the sky.
He originally thought he'd beenmissing for only five hours,
but later learned that he wasmissing for five days.
Travis (11:56):
Yeah, I believe it Well, he was missing for five days.
He was that is indisputable.
He was gone for five days.
His girlfriend, people thatwere involved in his life, very
personal people- they wereterrified.
They were scared and, of course,at first they thought it was
(12:18):
murder.
The sheriff and sheriff'sdeputy those guys are no longer
with us, but they talked todaughter of one of the sheriffs
in this documentary had saidthat the sheriff was telling the
crew during some of thesesearches Okay, you guys just
just tell me where you buriedhim, just tell me where the body
is, and this all can end.
This can all go away.
Josh (12:32):
Yeah, they're accusing him of murdering this guy.
They were accusing the wholecrew of murdering and because of
it's just crazy that these guysstuck with a lie when they're
being accused of potentialmurder.
Travis (12:44):
Well, they probably Mike Rogers and Travis Walton, I
think, are the architects ofthis.
Oh, and the other ones didn'tknow.
The other ones just didn't know.
Josh (12:53):
Interesting.
Travis (12:54):
They were just other crew members and because of
Travis's involvement with Mikeand the other crew member's
sister, they decided to bringhim in.
He probably had spent some timeand they'd watched this
documentary and they're like,okay, this is our chance.
We're not really that close togetting this job done.
We need to have something, someoutside force act on it so that
(13:16):
we can get out of having to paythis penalty.
So I don't think they told theother crew and so it was set up
in such a way and it hadhappened so fast.
I think Mike Rogers was thedriver of the truck.
He drove away really fast, soall they got was like lights out
in the forest, quick glimpse,yeah, quick glimpse.
And then it's easy to create amemory based on, you know, other
(13:40):
people's input.
That's how you get falsememories is that you hear enough
of an accounting and if traviscomes back and says this is what
happened I was abduct thosepeople are going to put the
pieces together of that storybased on their own information,
and then you start to get what'scalled like confirmation bias.
Josh (13:58):
Yeah, I think that's also the issue that you were talking
about with that hypnosis, likeregressive memory hypnosis
therapy, is that a lot of thescientific community doesn't
believe it, because in hypnosisyou can put in memories.
Well, but yeah, I mean meanpeople are very easily
influenced, people thatexperience hypnosis are
(14:18):
notoriously easily, notoriouslyeasily influenced.
Travis (14:19):
There are some people that just aren't susceptible to
it and some who are verysusceptible to it yeah, I've
tried being hypnotized, but itdidn't work for me I've never
tried to be hypnotized.
The idea, the whole idea of it,freaks me out a little bit.
Josh (14:30):
It is freaky.
It was like on a stage withpeople and it just didn't work
for me and it did for otherpeople and they just kicked me
off stage.
But I think I didn't want to behypnotized truly.
Travis (14:41):
Yeah, I would hope that if I was ever put in a situation
where I was going to gethypnotized, my willpower would
get through it where I was, justlike I don't want to be
hypnotized.
It sounds like a terrifyingexperience.
Josh (14:51):
But I heard one hour of hypnosis is like eight hours
worth of sleep.
Wow, that's wild.
Yeah, so, walton, he was gone.
He came back up.
He was walking on the highwaywhen he appeared.
There was a full-scaleinvestigation that included
polygraphs, psychologicalevaluations and physical
examinations.
Travis (15:11):
Everybody passed the polygraph, but polygraphs are
notoriously faulty.
There's like false negative orfalse positives.
With polygraphs it just dependson the person.
Josh (15:21):
But they're saying that that many people passing is very
bizarre.
One person passing like thatwouldn't hold up, but that many
people, I mean not really.
Travis (15:31):
If you believe that that's the story, then that's
the story, right, and you can.
You can convince yourself ofjust about anything I can.
Travis came back.
He was probably freaked out andI think the lie detector backed
that up and I think, witheverybody else, they honestly
believed that that was the storyand so it wasn't a lie to them.
Josh (15:47):
Yeah.
Travis (15:47):
The part that clutches it for me that this didn't
really happen was Mike comingout in 2021 and saying that it
was a hoax?
To who?
To your If?
Josh (15:58):
you say my mother.
Travis (16:00):
It came out to your mom.
So March 19, 2021, mike Rogersposted a statement to his
Facebook and I'm reading fromthe Travis Walton incident
Wikipedia page under thesubheading Rogers Walton dispute
of 2021.
Okay, Michael H Rogers, beingof sound and rational mind, do
(16:21):
hereby give notice that I am nolonger to be considered a
witness to Travis C Walton'ssupposed abduction of November
5th 1975.
He later clarified.
Travis tried to keep a newremake of the movie a secret
from me.
He's always had his big secret,so he has kept from me.
It angered me.
I tried over the last two weeksto reason with him, but of no
avail.
I don't believe Travis is anhonest person and therefore I
(16:42):
want nothing to do with him.
He had really said on hisFacebook page Wow.
On April 30th, rogers placed acall to producer Ryan Gordon who
was working on a new film aboutthe Walton incident.
Gordon recorded the callwithout Rogers' knowledge, as
permitted by Arizona law.
Two months later, on July 4th,gordon publicly posted audio
from the call, which featuredRogers explaining we were
(17:08):
talking in the woods one day.
We were talking about creatinga UFO hoax.
Okay, I don't know how the UFOgot there, but I remember when I
was driving the truck and hejumped out.
It was all deliberate, it wasall a staged thing.
Okay, he ran up there and therewas something about the UFO not
being real, although it lookedreal.
Rogers and Walton laterreconciled and Rogers issued a
statement retracting hisconfession Interesting, and I
think that there's probablymoney involved If there was
going to be a remake.
(17:28):
Of course, the studio is goingto offer money to use his rights
again, because I'm sure he ownsthe rights to his own story.
I don't know, though.
That might not be true.
It might be owned by whoeverproduced or distributed Fire in
the Sky, but it was based onTravis's book.
Fire in the sky is based on the, the incident but didn't travis
write a book in 1978 he wrotethe walton experience which was
(17:50):
adapted into the 1993 film firein the sky.
okay sold his story to tab boy,the national inquire, which
published the account andawarded the crew a $5,000 prize.
So through the NationalEnquirer, which Bat baby, bat
boy.
Yeah, bigfoot, that's theirmain stars.
Josh (18:08):
That was my favorite part of waiting in lines as a kid.
Travis (18:10):
Yeah, I was looking like oh, bat Boy's popped up again.
Oh how nice.
I'm glad he's doing well.
Josh (18:15):
Wow, that baby weighs 500 pounds.
That was great.
I never saw fire in the sky.
I'm not a big horror filmperson.
Travis (18:24):
I wouldn't say horror.
It's like it's sci-fi, but itis scary.
There are elements of likesupernatural.
Josh (18:30):
I watched the trailer and that looks spooky.
Travis (18:33):
The abduction is very scary.
Josh (18:34):
Yeah, it looks like they embellished a little bit on what
happened in the spaceship andthey made it like a horror
thriller, sci-fi action.
Yeah, I mean it looks like theydid a good job.
Travis (18:45):
Yeah, no, it's it, it's good.
I haven't seen it in many years, but uh, there's a reason for
that is because it reallyfreaked me out when I first saw
it yeah, well, I'm secondguessing with all the
information you're giving me.
Josh (18:57):
So are you saying that aliens know?
In this situation, I'm sayingaliens.
Travis (19:02):
Know, in this specific situation we're all on the same
journey here me, you and youlisteners out there we're trying
to figure out what's going ontrying to figure out what's
going on.
This is to me.
Josh (19:11):
That was a no okay, I'm gonna say maybe, oh okay, just
because I mean, I don't have allthe information we don't know
for a fact yeah with travisbeing very successful.
Because of this whole story andcontinued success, I could see
why he could keep it going yeah,he wants to propagate this myth
.
Travis (19:30):
He wants this to keep going because this has become
his identity he's known as thefire in the sky guy yeah, cool
thing to be known for sure man,I mean, and if that's what
you're known for, you're gonnawant to ride that pony till it
collapses yeah and it soundedlike it got near collapse in
2021 I, I'm gonna stick with, uh, maybe, okay, it can't be a
(19:51):
definite yes or a definite nofor me it's a definite no for me
.
Okay, probably surprisingnobody um yeah let us know what
you think.
Josh (20:01):
Tell us your inside information that you have.
Like we mentioned last week,don't give us anything that is
important.
Travis (20:09):
Please, god, we do not want that responsibility.
Yeah, giving it to us would bevery irresponsible of you.
We're very irresponsible people.
I wouldn't even know what to dowith it.
I would delete it.
Yeah, oopsie, delete.
Find someone else, give what todo with it.
I would delete it.
Yeah, oopsie.
Josh (20:23):
Delete, find someone else, give it to Jeremy Corbell.
Travis (20:26):
Yeah, he's more suited.
Yep.
Link in the show notes for howto reach Jeremy Corbell.
Yeah, in fact, direct all ofyour questions about our podcast
to Jeremy Corbell atjeremycorbell at gmailcom.
I'm sure jcorbell at gmailcom.
Yep, I'm sure jcorbell atgmailcom.
Josh (20:40):
Yep, I'm sure it'll work.
Travis (20:42):
That's where all of our emails are going to go.
Now we're going to justredirect it.
Josh (20:46):
Yeah, we don't need that.
Travis (20:48):
No, we don't need that.
I don't want that kind ofpressure.
Josh (20:50):
So next week this is going to be a fun one we're going to
give you a little sneak peekwith a quiz, and the topic is
men in black.
Travis (21:01):
Yep and the show quiz.
Well, now that we're on thequiz part, I'm going to say our
great researcher, jordan, fuckedup and sent me the quiz before
taking it today, so I had sometime to do some research you
cheated.
Josh (21:17):
This is the first time I'm opening this quiz up.
Travis (21:21):
I can't be trusted with informationosh.
That's what I'm saying.
I am irresponsible that'shorrible.
Josh (21:28):
Well, I guess the quiz is just for me I'm still gonna fail
it.
Travis (21:30):
I know I'm going to.
Josh (21:32):
I'll still mess it up all right, my men in black.
Knowledge is from the moviesyeah I did listen to one podcast
episode about it.
That information is somewherein my mind palace.
I don't know if I can access it, hopefully, but we'll find out,
All right.
So the first question the menin black are often described as
wearing what distinctive type ofclothing?
Travis (21:53):
Okay, this is like the easiest question on here.
This is yeah.
Josh (21:56):
Black robes, black suits and sunglasses, black jumpsuits,
black military uniform we allknow it's black suits and
sunglasses Easy.
black jumpsuits, black militaryuniform we all know it's black
suits and sunglasses easy.
I could do this all night long.
Yeah, just answer this onequestion, yeah, yeah, all right.
The next question what is theprimary purpose of the men in
black's visits, according towitness reports?
Okay, so a to offer protectionfrom aliens.
(22:19):
B To warn witnesses to remainsilent about what they have seen
.
C To recruit people into secretgovernment programs or D To
explain the phenomenon of UFOsightings.
Travis (22:34):
What are you going to say?
Josh (22:35):
It's to warn witnesses to remain silent about what they
have seen.
That's what I was going to saytoo, because you cheated.
Travis (22:42):
I mean that one is not a .
That's not much of a cheat,though that's classic men in
black behavior.
I mean they have the neuralyzerin the movie.
Josh (22:51):
The next question.
Witnesses often describe themen in black as lacking what
common human characteristic?
Travis (22:58):
Oh, this is an interesting one.
Josh (23:00):
This is, I don't know Okay , is.
Oh, this is an interesting one.
This is, I don't know Okay, isit?
A fingernails Uh-huh, b,eyebrows, mm-hmm.
C, hair on their head, or D allof the above?
Travis (23:11):
So this is one that I wasn't sure of.
So I did look up physicalcharacteristics and they said
that a lot of these men in blackfigures wear a hat, and so it's
hard to determine facialcharacteristics, but for the
purposes of this quiz, I'm goingto say D, all of the above.
Josh (23:30):
Fingernails too.
Uh-huh, that's creepy.
Travis (23:33):
Yeah, some people think that they're either time
travelers or from another planet.
They're actually aliens here toprotect their own secrecy.
Josh (23:43):
Crazy.
All right, so I'm going to do D.
All the above.
They're lacking.
All of these things.
All these things Fingernails,eyebrows, hair on the head, yeah
.
Next question In many accounts,how are their voices described?
A high pitched and squeaky.
B high pitched and squeaky.
B deep and robotic, c calm andmelodic or D muffled and hard to
(24:06):
understand.
Travis (24:07):
How would you describe our voices on this podcast?
Josh (24:10):
Hmm, it wouldn't be any of those.
Travis (24:12):
Would you fit any of these now?
Josh (24:14):
I wouldn't.
I mean we're not calm.
No, I don't think we're thatdeep.
We're definitely nothigh-pitched and squeaky,
muffled and hard to understand.
Travis (24:22):
Maybe yeah, but I don't know this answer my inside voice
and my brain is, I would say,calm and melodic, but everybody
else in my life is like, uh,kind of like an annoying
know-it-all.
It's kind of how you are.
That's not like.
I'm asking about the tone of ofmy voice, not my attitude my
(24:43):
inside voice?
Josh (24:46):
deep and melodic, oh okay.
Or deep and calm, perfect.
Yeah, I'm gonna answer deep androbotic, okay I'm gonna say
high pitched and squeaky oh,that's weird well, it is weird
they are weird, they are I mean.
So the next question when didthe first reports of the men in
black begin to emerge?
(25:07):
A 1886, b 1929, c 1947, or D1962.
Travis (25:17):
I know we talked about this, I think, on one of our
other shows.
Josh (25:20):
I'm going to say 1947.
Travis (25:23):
I'm going to say 1947 too, even though my gut is
telling me 1962, because that'sa year after the betty and
barney hill incident and therewere reports of men in black
approaching them my gut'stelling me 1886 whoa okay all
right, wow, pick that, pick your, go with your gut.
Josh (25:41):
But my mind is telling me 1947.
Well, well, you've got a mindlike a steel trap, josh, just
because there hasn't been manyincidences before that.
Travis (25:49):
So what are you going to pick?
Josh (25:50):
I'll do 1886, A I'll do 1947.
Travis (25:53):
Okay.
Josh (25:54):
The next question the men in black are often reported to
have.
What kind of unusual physicalappearance Is it A glowing red
eyes, b pale skin, skin almostwaxy, c extremely tall and
muscular, or d all of the above?
Travis (26:10):
I agree with two of those descriptions the tall and
muscular one I don't I'm notreally sure of, but glowing red
eyes I read about you've alwaysbeen kind of afraid of tall and
muscular I am because I I'mafraid of what I see in the
mirror every day.
What it boils down to is I'mbasically afraid of myself.
Okay, what do you have?
(26:32):
Do you have something to say,josh, or you just cleared?
no, that was all I needed um,I'm going to say all of the
above, even though I don't thinkone of those fits from what
I've seen the pale skin and waxyand tall and muscular.
Josh (26:45):
Those seem to fit the glowing red eyes.
They're wearing sunglasses.
How do they know?
Travis (26:50):
Some accounts said they have eyes that are very luminous
, like bulbs.
Josh (26:53):
Well, I'm just going to say extremely tall and muscular.
Travis (26:57):
Okay, this extremely tall and muscular is also a
description of the Nordic alien.
Josh (27:03):
Yes, I think that that kind of fits, which is the kind
of humanoid-looking aliens thatWalton said he encountered.
Travis (27:11):
It's a very Western culture description of aliens.
I am of the thinking if aliensare actually out there, there is
no reason to believe that theyevolved the same way that we did
, or they're bipedal, they walkaround on two arms, two legs.
Josh (27:24):
They're saying that there's multiple kinds of aliens
sure.
Travis (27:27):
I don't see it very likely.
Given our very specificevolution here on planet earth,
I don't think that the evolutionon another planet is going to
be the same yeah, I don't thinkwe could be looking at something
that looks like a squid or anoctopus or whatever.
Those could be aliens that areplopped down, you know, in our
waters, but I don't necessarilysee them being two arms, two
(27:52):
legs, two eyes, a nose, a mouthkind of alien, I don't know.
Josh (27:57):
Well, hopefully we'll find out in our lifetime.
Travis (27:59):
Hopefully we'll find out in our lifetime.
Okay, last question.
Josh (28:02):
Last question which of the following is a common theory
about the true identity of themen in black?
Is it a they are time travelersfrom the future, b their aliens
disguised as humans, c theirgovernment agents from a secret
agency, or d all of the above?
Travis (28:21):
why not?
Josh (28:21):
all yeah.
I was gonna say all yeah.
I mean some people say thatmaybe we're already working with
aliens, so it could be aliensworking for a government agency,
but then I mean we work formoney what are they working for?
What are they working for?
A?
Travis (28:38):
passport to live on this planet have you access?
Have you seen men in black?
They have a whole likesubdivision that works on like
aliens and it's funny illegalaliens being here and then they
get sent back to their planetbecause their paper requests had
filled out properly so theyjust want to live and run a
little bodega they want to livehere because maybe, uh, just
(28:59):
just like how we have a lot ofpeople crossing the border and
coming here to the united states, they're fleeing something that
is terrifying andlife-threatening to them
Interesting.
And they want a better life fortheir family.
So they came here because it'san easier life and that maybe
their, whatever their homeplanet is not the best place for
them to live.
Okay, and they have anopportunity.
Space tourism too.
(29:19):
Maybe they're just here, likegoing to France.
Yeah, just visiting here, likegoing to france yeah, just you
know like the conehead said.
Conehead said they were fromfrance.
That's why they're so weirdbecause no one knew yeah all
right.
Josh (29:29):
So we both said all the above.
Travis (29:31):
I'm gonna submit you my accuracy oh, oh, I missed two I
missed two as well okay, so Igot the first question right
black suits and sunglasses obvi.
Josh (29:45):
Yeah.
Travis (29:46):
Obvious choice.
Number two we both got thatright.
Warn witnesses to remain silentabout what they have seen.
That's the purpose of the menin black.
Yeah Three they described themen in black as missing
fingernails, eyebrows and hairon their head.
We got that right.
That's crazy.
In many accounts, how are theirvoices described?
I said high-pitched and squeaky.
Josh (30:04):
Ooh, I said deep and robotic, and that's right.
That's right Deep and robotic.
Travis (30:09):
So deep and robotic, fine.
When did the first report ofthe men in black begin to emerge
?
Josh (30:14):
Ah, I changed it 1947, baby, my mind was right, my gut
was wrong.
Travis (30:20):
What a dumb idiot, Josh.
I know you are a dumb idiot,Josh.
I know you are a dumb dumb Iknow, but you've been alive this
long because you've trustedyour gut.
Josh (30:26):
No, oh no, I've been trusting my mind.
Travis (30:28):
Oh shit.
Josh (30:30):
Yeah, I'm never going to go with my gut again.
Travis (30:33):
Men in Black often report I have what kind of
unusual physical appearance.
I said all of the above.
That is incorrect.
What did you?
Josh (30:40):
get Tall and muscular.
I said extremely tall andmuscular.
That is incorrect.
Yeah, the answer was pale skinand almost waxy.
Travis (30:49):
Oh, then I read the wrong thing.
Well, maybe I didn't read thewrong thing.
Maybe there's just so manyaccounts out there there could
be Okay.
And then the last one.
What is a common theory aboutthe trade?
Any of the men in black, all ofthe above Time travelers,
aliens dressed as humans and orgovernment agents from a secret
agency?
Josh (31:07):
And I say why does it have ?
Travis (31:08):
to be, or why can't, why not?
Josh (31:10):
And yeah, I think everyone has a place in this.
I'm open to whatever.
Okay, well, cool, well, thankyou for listening.
Uh, next episode is we're goingto figure out what this men in
black business is.
Yeah, yeah, episode is.
Travis (31:26):
We're gonna figure out what this men in black business
is.
Yeah, yeah, really gonna figureit out.
We're still waiting on um, thedirector of men in black.
Uh, but next we will tell youit's going to be.
Will smith will be on the show.
Tony shalhoub will be on theshow.
Josh (31:35):
Tommy lee jones will be here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we willhave a real men in black on the
show.
Yeah, a waxy, not tall andmuscular.
Yeah, finger nail-less,hairless, eyebrow-less.
Travis (31:48):
Oh man, it's going to be a painful week for one of us.
Josh (31:51):
It's going to be you.
Travis (31:52):
You already don't have hair, so I'm but I am tall and
muscular as we've described, soyou're going to have to get real
big.
You're going to have to losethat.
Okay, lose that.
No, okay, well, thank you forlistening.
Get a hold of us if you want.
Yeah, have a great week.
Yeah, thanks for listening.
Bye.
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