March 4, 2025 • 41 mins
Have you ever wondered why you react the way you do, what truly drives you, or how to break free from limiting patterns? In this episode, I sit down with Tracy O’Malley, an expert in self-discovery and transformation through the Enneagram. We dive into how childhood conditioning influences your behaviors, how to use the Enneagram to uncover blind spots, and the mindset shifts that can help you break generational cycles. She also shares how to balance masculine and feminine energy to make decisions, recognize when your environment is holding you back, and cultivate emotional resilience that will serve you in every area of life. Get ready to stop repeating old cycles and start living your life in alignment.
HIGHLIGHTS
- How childhood beliefs still shape your decisions today.
- Practices that will help you stop reacting from old wounds.
- How to shift from survival mode to clarity and confidence.
- The key to balance masculine (action-driven) and feminine (intuitive) energy to make better decisions.
- Steps to take when you feel emotionally overwhelmed or triggered.
- Mindset shifts to stop seeking external validation.
RESOURCES + LINKS
Learn more about the Enneagram and Tracy’s coaching programs HERE
Check out upcoming retreats + more: chrissymay.com
FOLLOW
Chrissy May: @thechrissymay
Tracy O’Malley: @tracy_omalley
**GRAB MY BOOK ON AMAZON!**
https://a.co/d/63r93l6
Connect with Chrissy:
YouTube: @ChrissyMayAligned
Instagram: @theChrissyMay
Website for more information: ChrissyMay.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Attention, all my soul sisters, imagine this eight
days of pure transformation ata private 10,000 square foot
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Yes, as in Greece, as in thisSeptember, where we will dive
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(00:27):
reconnecting with your highestself Heal in the crystal clear
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what no longer serves you,you'll enjoy private boat rides
to hidden coves and a soulawakening visit to the iconic
Mamma Mia Island.
Every meal, a nourishingexperience crafted with love by
(00:49):
our private chef.
Enjoy moonlight rituals,ecstatic dance, sound, healing,
breath work, sacred ceremonies,dancing lessons as in Greek
dance lessons, cooking lessons,so much more.
This is a once-in-a-lifetimeexperience that you do not want
(01:10):
to miss.
Everything is designed toawaken the divine within.
This is more than a retreat.
It's a homecoming to yourself.
So are you ready to transform?
If so, then join us in Greecethis September.
(01:40):
You can head on over to chr anincredible episode.
If you've ever struggled totruly understand yourself why
you react the way you do, whatdrives you and how to break free
from old patterns, then today'sepisode is going to be a game
changer.
My next guest is a master atusing the Enneagram as a
powerful tool for self-discovery, healing and transformation is
(02:06):
a powerful tool forself-discovery, healing and
transformation.
In this episode, she shares howunderstanding your core motives
and fears can unlock deeperself-awareness, stronger
relationships and even greatersuccess in business.
We'll also dive into thebalance of masculine and
feminine energies, theconnection between personal
growth and entrepreneurshipenergies, the connection between
personal growth andentrepreneurship, and how to
(02:27):
shift old narratives that nolonger serve you.
If you're ready to step intothe next level of your life with
clarity, confidence and purpose, then keep listening, because
this conversation is packed withwisdom that will shift your
perspective and help you takeaction.
It's an honor to sit and sharein conversation today with the
(02:49):
legend herself, tracy O'Malley.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
It's like you wrapped up all 50 years of my life in
all the things you know betweenbusiness and spirituality and
personal transformation, likethat's what this whole life is
all about.
And yeah, I've got a lot ofhistory there, so you sure do
yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
So we're gonna go deep, deep today and I love it.
I love it too.
And a quick note Tracy and II've known of her for several
years, but we met at uh,connecting with the creator
classes, with Katie Kylene lastyear.
We did two certificationstogether.
That was really powerful.
So we'll be talking about thattoday as well.
But let's take us back.
Take us back to before thetransformation, before all the
(03:29):
healing and personal growth.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Well, I think I'm in a constant state of healing and
transformation and if you aresomebody that is raising your
hand and saying I want to be thebest version of myself, know
that it's not a box, you check,it's not something we do one
time, like there's been manyevolutions, you know, even
before the obvioustransformation, the one that was
very holy crap, like move theneedle like 10 levels, but I
(03:55):
feel like there's always beenlike a next level, a next level,
a next level, another layerthat we're unpeeling.
But you know, in, I'd say, thelast 15 years, you know that
ability to acceleratetransformation is kind of what
everybody has gotten to see andbenefit from quite honestly
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So how?
You've always been a highachiever.
Is this been in your bloodsince you were a little girl?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
You know I don't.
I, yes, yes, I am a highachiever.
However, I don't achieve justto achieve.
I will go head first and kickanybody's ass in my way when it
gives me independence andautonomy and some form of
control in my life.
I don't like to rely on people,but just to win things.
(04:42):
To win is not my deal If we'replaying something and I really
don't like to rely on people butjust to win things.
To win is not my deal.
If we're playing something andI really don't care like we play
Catan at my house all the time.
It's this board game and it'sfun for me.
I'm competitive, but I don'treally give a shit about
achieving a win there.
I'm more about like how can Ilearn from this experience,
playing with all these differentpeople to better myself, you
(05:07):
know, in longevity.
So I would say I've always beena high achiever.
I grew up in a household back inChicago and I'm the oldest
daughter.
I'm an Aries, enneagram 8, youknow all the things that it's
like check, check, check, check,check.
Yeah, she's a fireballBasically.
I have no water in my astrologychart.
(05:28):
It's pretty much all fire andearth.
And my dad when I was fouryears old I'll never forget it.
He looked down at me and youknow I'm looking up with these
big green eyes and you know healways said like your job is to
be independent, learn how tomake money in your sleep.
Don't let anybody control you.
Don't ever rely on anyone.
I was like okay when I was fouryears old, so I'm naturally
(05:51):
wired like that.
Plus, the conditioning that Igrew up with has always fed into
if it's to be, it's up to mekind of energy for sure Were you
raised in any sort of religiousfamily, religious upbringing at
all.
My grandmother on my dad's sidewas like the uber Catholic, like
(06:12):
the rosary, like no birthcontrol, like next level kind of
Catholic, and my dad went toCatholic high schools and
Catholic schools and he was theoldest of seven by the time.
He was an adult.
He was like I am not forcinganybody to do this, so you know,
when we were with Graham, youknow we talked about God and I
(06:32):
was always interested, thoughyou know, growing up in the home
that I did, it was an alcoholichome.
It was very unstable.
Mom was emotionally completelychecked out.
Dad was the Jekyll and Hydealcoholic.
I'm the oldest child.
My sister was a train wreck.
In the most respectful way, shewas like I will get attention,
(06:53):
no matter how I can get it, andit was usually not good.
So I'm here like playing chesswith the family and you know,
sundays were kind of like whenthe dust settled.
Everybody would say thank God,it's Friday.
I hated Fridays because it'slike we're going to whoop it up
and you never know what you'regoing to get.
But by the time Sunday rolledaround, it was quiet in the
(07:14):
house in the morning, probablybecause people are hungover and
sleeping it off and nowhere tobe and football Sunday and all
the things, the things.
And I'll never forget.
I was nine years old on a Sundaymorning, it was pouring rain in
Chicago and I got on my bikeand started riding around from
all these differentdenominations of churches.
You know, in this five mileradius that I lived in, there
(07:36):
was like Baptist and Christianand Catholic and Lutheran.
And I rolled up to this Baptistchurch as a nine-year-old and
pouring rain and I walk inlooking like a drowned rat, a
nine-year-old and pouring rain.
And I walk in looking like adrowned rat and like if this
happened today, you know, someauthorities would probably be
called.
And it was weird because Iwalked in and it was the Baptist
church and I walked down thesteps like the lobby was down,
(07:58):
and all of a sudden it was likethe Red Sea was parting as I
walked in and you know it'salmost like the wave,
everybody's starting to look atlike this little girl walking in
.
And I stopped in front of thisguy I don't even know who he was
at the church and he's likewhat are you doing here?
And I just said I have no ideabut, I know that I'm.
(08:19):
I want to understand what thisis all about, and he handed me a
Bible and I never really tookit further than that.
I had always been interested.
I always had a relationshipwith a God of my understanding,
good, orderly, direction, g-o-d,and I was always seeking it out
and trying to tap into it.
However, when life would lifeme, I was like that's cute, god,
(08:41):
but I'm going to play my ownhand here.
You know what I mean.
So I never really understood orwas modeled what living in
faith was.
It was like if it's to be, it'sup to me.
You know I'm going to play myown deck, but I was always
interested and deeply connectedand I also have, like, some
channeling that I have gifted,been gifted as well, so, but I
(09:04):
didn't know how to make anysense of it.
It definitely wasn't taught,told or modeled to me in a way
that I respected.
It was like, yes, we love God,but then we do shit.
That's so out of integrity.
But I was always seeking it.
I was always, always seeking it.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Well, it's within you , right.
You feel you're part of yourbeing.
I wanted to talk more aboutthat because I know we shared a
conversation in connecting withthe creator on, you know,
obviously, having these gifts,and whether they're quote
unquote psychic abilities orthey're just, you know it's God
within and we're just so tappedin and tuned into that essence.
When was the first experiencefor you that you can remember as
(09:39):
a young girl, when you thoughtbecause I think we had a
conversation of this inconnecting with the creator
where you actually saw?
Was it you who said they sawangels?
Somebody in the Connecting withthe Creator said that and I
thought it was you.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
No, that wasn't me.
I've never like seen angels, soto speak, but I have seen the
gift of God and like the divinewisdom, and I think it was four
years old the first time that Ireally understood that this was
much bigger than me.
Four years old, the first timethat I really understood that
this was much bigger than methat all of this was much bigger
than me.
You know, four years old was thefirst time I remember even
(10:12):
self-abandoning myself for theneeds of my father.
You know my role, or what Ithought was my role, you know,
like a good, codependent littlegirl that I was, was being
accommodating and accessible forwhatever my dad needed, and
that could change on a dimeright.
And there's this beautifulpicture of me.
I'm the cutest little thing andI'm four years old and in the
(10:34):
picture is me kind of standingground in front of my father,
who's passed out in like a lazyboy, you know, and like even the
look on my face is like keepmoving y'all.
Nothing to see here, nothing tosee here.
And I, through all those times,I remember the presence of God
(10:54):
saying this is all going tomatter for something much bigger
than you.
Just hold on, Just hold on, Iam with you, Lead me.
You know, I was like lead me,guide me, walk beside me here,
because I don't know.
So I always felt it, saw it.
And there were days that I justI was like this fucking sucks
(11:16):
and this is not fucking fair,Like I don't want this calling,
I don't want this to be biggerthan me, I just want to get
through a day.
And you know, there weremoments that I leaned in and
others that I numbed out to tryand silence all of it.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
That's just so, when you think about just that, the
weight on that little girl'sshoulders that had to even have
to experience that Right Like atsuch a young, young,
impressionable age, and I wastaking care of my little sister
as a four year old.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
She was two, you know , I was left not alone but like
to tend after her, you know, andthere were accidents that
happened because, hello, I wasfour.
Like she drank bleach, I pulledher teeth out with a jump rope,
she got bit by a dog, she brokea few arms.
You know, like I was just a kidleft to be responsible for her
(12:02):
and even though, like I was very, very mature for my age and
even adulting, I mean myneighbors had me baby.
I was telling this story theother day.
My neighbors, when I was nine,they had three boys under five
and I was left babysitting themovernight.
Like who does that?
Yeah, I mean I was super, ubermature, but I was still just a
freaking kid trying to figurethings out and felt the weight
(12:24):
of that responsibility.
And also, you know everything'sand you know it's like I felt
the weight and the depth of thatresponsibility and also I felt
so fucking proud.
And like the ego.
It's like, yes, I am strong andpowerful, yes, and so I made it
my mission to show the worldhow how much I could carry on my
(12:44):
shoulders, how strong I couldbe, and you know, when your ego
really likes it, plus, it feelslike, you know, this armor of
protection, people will utilizethat.
They think they're helping youand in a lot of ways they did,
because I am who I am.
Because of that, and also a lotof this destruction that I've
caused in my own life is fromthat responsibility, that over
(13:06):
responsibility, that I have feltmany, many times in my life.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Let's talk more about that.
So I know you're very openabout your sobriety journey and
I love talking about thesemoments that you know we reach,
like the depths of helloftentimes, and then we can pull
ourselves out of it, which isto me like the real success in
life, to go through all of thethings and feel every bit of it.
Can you just take us on thatjourney and what that looked
like?
Because I mean obviously comingfrom such a heavy childhood,
(13:33):
really taking on so muchresponsibility and being in
survival mode.
That led to a lot of yourdecisions later on in life, but
you were able to really comefull circle from that and rise
and evolve to where you're attoday, to really come full
circle from that and rise andevolve to where you're at today.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Well, the whole thing about, you know, sobriety for
me, like, obviously I had adysfunctional relationship with
alcohol.
Obviously I've had a verydysfunctional relationship with
food, with relationships withpretty much everything.
I've had a dysfunctionalrelationship and I think a lot
of these addictions that comeout of this are symptoms rather
than the thing.
And you know, I always said Ididn't want to be like my dad.
You know, I didn't want to bethis Jekyll and Hyde.
(14:12):
You never knew what you weregoing to get.
And you know, my first drinkingexperience was when I was 15.
And I realized pretty quickly Ididn't do things like other
people.
You know, I grew up in the eraof Zima.
So yeah, that dates me.
Yes, I'm 50 something years old, but you know, everybody was
drinking Zimas and wine coolersand they're so cool and I'm like
(14:32):
give me the SoCo.
You know my first drinkingexperience was SoCo and I drank
a fifth of it and I will neverforget, like, that first sip,
that first sip.
It was like, you know, becausewhen you're carrying the weight
of the world all the time andyou're pretty tightly wound and
you're a little bit intense,right, and although I love that
I'll eat intensity for breakfast, being that tightly wound all
(14:55):
the time, like think of like anInstapot, it's going to blow
eventually, right.
And that first sip was like andI felt like I could exhale for
the first time.
And I think where that became aproblem for me was I was
chasing that first sip feeling.
Not the first sip, not thedrunk, I didn't.
(15:16):
I didn't like getting blackoutdrunk, I didn't like what.
I became so out of controlsometimes.
But I wanted that first drink,first sip feeling, the exhale,
the peace, the calm.
And I thought like I could justhave that and I would test it,
like I didn't physically becomeever addicted to alcohol, like I
(15:37):
could easily stop.
And I would test it.
Like in college when I wasdrinking, the entire baseball
team under the table.
I was like, see, like I'm a probut I can stop at any time and
I would easily.
No problem, 30 days, no problem.
I'm not like my dad, he drankevery day.
And then obviously I getmarried and have babies no
(15:58):
problem, no problem.
But when it became a problem andunmanageable is when I did do
it, you never knew how far itwould go or how much had been so
repressed that it was going tospew out like volcano lava onto
anybody in its path and thatwasn't a pretty picture and it
usually went out onto the peoplethat I cared about and this
went on.
I'd have a blackout.
(16:19):
I'd be fine for a year, noproblem.
I didn't need it every day, butit was more for that exhale
pressure release that I noticedthe problem.
But I didn't realize that Iprobably shouldn't have this in
my life until my dad passed awayand I was 40 years old.
He was diagnosed with cancer andgone within 12 days and you
(16:40):
know he never recovered.
He was a very high functioningalcoholic, never missed a day of
work, you know, never lookedhungover, like the whole thing,
which was very confusing, youknow, and I was like I'll be
damned if I fucking repeat this,because I know where this leads
for them and I started to seesome behaviors in them that some
(17:09):
were similar, some weredifferent, both were destructive
and I know, like you're goingto do, what is taught, told and
modeled for you and what I'mmodeling for them is absolutely
unacceptable for their future,for me, and I'm not going to be
as I do, as I say, not as I do,you know.
I'm not going to be thatbullshit.
You know I'm somebody whoprides himself on walking their
(17:29):
talk and, um, I had quitdrinking because I just I was
like this serves no good in mylife and they need me now.
They were 14 and 15 at the time.
They need me to be clear andpresent and like fully alive.
And then my dad died.
I was about 30 days intosobriety when my dad died
suddenly and stayed soberthrough the whole thing.
(17:51):
And my sister, she she had analcohol problem and a drug
problem too and she picked afight with me at his funeral and
I was like, seriously, she's solucky I'm not drinking right
now, because I could literallyfucking kill her, like I
literally could.
I was like this is nuts.
I ended up relapsing about fourmonths in the guy I was dating
at the time.
He's like you've been doing sogood, what's one weekend going
(18:13):
to do?
I was like you know what You'reright.
And that first sip was likethat first drink feeling like I
had at 15.
I'm like, see, it's not aproblem, I just I know this is
just the first drink feeling.
We'll leave it at that.
You know, the next day I'mblacked out, drunk, belly up at
a blackjack table, you know,with a bucket of Crown Royal.
This big and jumping out ofmoving cabs.
(18:33):
And that was the last day I waslike I don't have an alcohol
problem, I have an emotionalproblem and I need to figure out
emotional sobriety, because aslong as I have emotional
sobriety, this is a non-factor.
And so that's where thatjourney began.
And then I realized very easily, although alcohol is the
obvious problem, it's the food,the disordered eating with food,
(18:54):
that will actually kill me.
And I walked into rehab andtold my therapist I'm like
listen, listen, nancy, I knowlike I'm here for the alcohol,
that one's easy for me, but I'vebeen hiding this other
disordered kind of eating.
You know bulimia, anorexia, youknow abusing laxatives, you
know all the things I'm like.
(19:14):
If I don't tell you about this,I'm going to lean into this
instead of that, and I refuse todo that.
I need emotional sobriety andI'm here for it.
And that was almost 13 yearsago.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Amazing Congratulations, thank you.
That's a huge, huge win.
I always find it so fascinating.
So you just got to a momentwhere you could actually flip
the switch for the most partbesides that first four months,
whatever relapse you mentionedbut you hit that aha moment of
like.
Did you have a piece of thatwhere it was like I might die
(19:46):
and then my kids won't have?
I mean, were you, was it thatdown deep or was it more of just
?
It was more about the legacy.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I was leaving my kids , okay, and in my kids I, you
know.
After I jumped out of themoving cab cab and rolled into a
ball onto Las Vegas Boulevardand I sat on the corner in front
of the Bellagio thinking aboutmy life, I was like this is not
all life is supposed to be Ihaven't gone through everything
I've gone through to have it endlike this.
And I don't want this for mykids because if you don't repair
(20:15):
it, you repeat it, or it getsrepeated or both.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I was living proof of that and and I wanted better
for them.
But it took me breaking thecycle.
And you know, one thing aboutme is like I have to have my
back pretty much hard pressedagainst the wall for me to do
things.
I don't recommend that.
However, that's kind of, youknow, part of the calling on my
life, I think.
And I think just sitting there,humiliated with myself, and
(20:41):
it's either I beat myself upinto oblivion, and this is the
legacy, or I learn a new way,and that would mean unlearning
everything the first 40 yearshad taught me, which, you know,
we were very prideful, you knowIrish pride, you know very stoic
and strong and loyalty and allof that.
(21:01):
And in order for me to get theemotional sobriety I desperately
needed and desired, I was goingto have to break ties with
pretty much anything andeverything and everyone that was
part of my life to do it.
Because that conditioning andenvironment, you know you hear
environment stronger thanwillpower, Like I don't care how
(21:21):
freaking strong you are, thatwill take you out every time.
And so I needed to play indifferent sandboxes, so to speak
.
I had to walk away veryviolently at the end of a
relationship in the middle of myearly days of sobriety, Like I
ended up in an ambulance, youknow, in the first six months of
my sobriety, because I sodesperately wanted to have both.
Like I can fix this relationship.
(21:43):
He was just like my father,Like he was a good person, but
like Jekyll and Hyde, I can bein that and do this.
And God was like that's cute,you cannot.
How bad do you want it?
How bad do you want thiscalling that's on your life to
not just impact your family butyou and beyond?
And I, yeah, I just flipped aswitch and said this is where
(22:05):
that part of the story is over.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I love it.
I talk a lot about recreatingyour life right and recreating
your reality, and in my book Italk about, you know, getting
rid of the old programming thatwe were taught and told you know
since we were, since we werelittle kids.
Getting rid of the oldprogramming that we were taught
and told since we were littlekids.
And so let's share with thelisteners, let's give them some
really good value on how tonavigate, just recreating a
(22:27):
whole new world for yourself.
And it doesn't matter, it can be, alcohol, it could be drugs, it
could be sex, it could beshopping.
Check, check, check, check,check.
There are so many addictionsout there that people are facing
that we can help them navigateinto a whole new way of being.
So what did that look like foryou?
Or even, how do you teach yourclients right now?
How do you guide that wholeprocess on where to get started?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
and, in your expert opinion, I think you have to be
willing to disrupt every area ofyour life If you really want it
as bad as you say you want.
You can't.
Most people make that decisionwhen they're radically
uncomfortable and they just wantwhatever you know.
Insert your choice here.
You want whatever to stop thepain, the scarcity, the fears,
(23:13):
like whatever, Like I justwanted this to stop.
And this is why only 2% recoveris because we say this when
we're in triage, when we're incrisis, when we're like white
knuckling life.
But then the thing, the minutethings get a little bit more
like okay, this isn't so bad,Like I got this or you know, a
(23:33):
pattern that maybe isn't asunhealthy shows up.
It's like, yeah, see, it wasn'tthat bad, but this isn't that
bad.
And then it's just a matter oftime before we're back, even
worse, where we're in thedysfunction.
And I knew, and you have to ifyou really want to transform
your life, you have to bewilling to disrupt all parts of
(23:54):
it, especially when it doesn'tmake sense and especially when
the very people, the veryenvironments that keep you in
that state, start talking shitabout your growth.
Like you have a decision tomake.
It's like this fork in the road.
Are you going to go down thepath where everybody that you've
ever known and everythingyou've ever done is down there
and you know how that goes andsometimes that known is way
(24:15):
easier to accept and toleratethan the unknown.
Known is way easier to acceptand tolerate than the unknown.
And for true transformation toreally happen you have to be
willing to go down the road.
You have no idea what's infront of you or who's there or
who's left, and it's disruptive.
It's very disruptiveemotionally, physically,
spiritually, financially,sometimes even no-transcript and
(25:07):
wellness space with a femaledominated in a female dominated
industry and I notoriously didnot work well with women you
know,or get along well with women.
I was, you know, the onetalking ESPN and and golf scores
rather than shopping and lipgloss, you know.
Or get along well with women.
I was, you know, the onetalking ESPN and golf scores
rather than shopping and lipgloss, you know.
But here I was disrupting mylife, all areas of my life, and
(25:29):
it was cool because I wasintroduced to the Enneagram in
rehab by my therapist and Iwanted nothing to do with it.
But it gave me this.
You know, I've always kind ofput puzzle pieces together.
Growing up in an alcoholic home, you have to be able to read
situations and put the rightpieces together, like I said,
playing chess.
When I was introduced to theEnneagram, even though I wanted
(25:50):
nothing to do with it, and cameinto it kicking and screaming,
all of a sudden it gave me thislanguage to what God had been
showing me all along.
And it was actually like thisroadmap.
And when I was a little girl,for fun, I used to read the
Atlas, before there was GPS onour phones.
The Atlas Atlas, the yellowcovered spiral bound Atlas, and
(26:11):
I used to get made fun of for itbecause I'd be sitting there
reading, like Iowa, and I wasjust fascinated like how does
all of this connect?
And if we want to get from hereto there, how do we get there?
Like I've always had that kindof brain and, you know, come
full circle with the Enneagram.
It's a navigation systemourselves or we stay in this
(26:42):
little bubble, we venture out inlife and we have to know which
roads lead us to the fasterroute, the scenic route, all the
things.
And the Enneagram kind of gaveme a language that I'd already
been using, but with morestructure, not just for myself
but other people.
And when I was disrupting mylife and taking my life to
ground zero, walking away fromthe boyfriend, walking away from
financial security, walkingaway from the career that I was
(27:03):
like really, really great at,and using my own navigation
system and the divine order ofGod, like everything in my
household changed with my kidsand I.
You know one of the thingsthere's the promises of AA, and
I remember the first day inrehab reading them and I was
sobbing because I was like, howis any of this possible for me?
And my favorite one I love themall, but my favorite one was no
(27:28):
matter how far down the scaleyou have gone, you'll see how
your experience can benefitothers.
And I was like, okay, this iswhat this is all about.
This is what this is all aboutNot just for me and my home and
my family, but beyond.
And we'll take it from there.
And I remember I was about fourmonths sober and they had me
speak at my first AA meeting andI was so nervous and like way
(27:52):
over prepared which I neverprepare- you know, now Like I
have like the preparations thatI do, but nothing like I did for
like a five minute, you know,talk to the rooms of AA.
And I remember when I got downand it was clunky, I didn't even
look at my notes, like all thatpreparation, and I just went
like divinely and intuitively,and I remember somebody saying,
(28:16):
um, you're gonna do this, thisfor a living, like you're going
to end up doing this for aliving because you are so
powerful before, beyond what youcan even imagine.
But I had no idea what thislooks like and I was like my
life.
I was like I don't even knowhow I'm going to like pay the
rent on my house that I'm in.
I don't even know how I'm goingto put my son in baseball
cleats.
He was showing up in rippedpants and holes in his cleats
(28:39):
and a borrowed baseball gloveand you know, my daughter was in
theater.
I'm like I have no idea howthis is going to happen, but I
believe it's possible and I willmake it happen.
But I was disrupting my lifeconstantly in a healthy way, not
in the destructive ways that Iwas doing.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
A mustard seed of courage, that's all it takes I
mean it's to show up, and sothen, how did you transition
into trusting that more and moreand more, and what steps did
you take in this new journey?
Because I think it's yes, weall have this great idea.
Okay, I'm going to just throw abomb on it all and then start
anew, if you will.
What did that look like, though, for the next months to come?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Well, I think the biggest part and I will say this
over and over and over again is, like the company that you keep
, the environment that you arein, will dictate the resolve you
have to see this through.
I had literally had wiped outmy entire social network anybody
that wasn't my two children.
I was willing to lose, and Idid, and so it.
So it was.
It was kind of this I didn'thave all this chirping in my ear
(29:43):
or the who does, who the helldo you think you are or you
shouldn't do that?
I mean, I had like a familymember that was like you
probably shouldn't do that.
You might want to get a realjob, but it takes somebody
special to do that.
And I was just like grab yourpopcorn because it's going to be
really fun for you to watch,like it was one of those things,
like I know I don't know howI'm going to make this happen,
(30:03):
but I know why and I know who isleading me and I just I had not
a lot of you know, chirping inmy ear and I just head down.
You know I took care of my bodyfirst.
My spirit, my mind andeverything else was really
falling into place and I didn'twaver from that, even when it
didn't make a lot of sense, andI threw myself into the service
(30:25):
of others.
I built a brand new communityaround me and people were
inspired.
I was like shit for 40 years.
I kept this vulnerability andthis transparency at bay.
I was like you're only going tosee the stoic rock hard, can't
fuck with me, girl.
And that changed in sobriety.
(30:47):
I was like when I heard thestatistics about how many of us
actually maintain recovery andit's only 2% I was pissed off
that more people that have madeit weren't talking about it.
And that's something thathappens with me.
When I get pissed off aboutsomething, it's like well then
I'm going to do it, because youknow we need more stories of
hope and that it's possible.
And so I was like I'm going toblow my fucking anonymity out of
(31:09):
the water and I don't even givea fuck.
And it upset a lot of my family, like it did.
They're like who are youtalking about?
I'm like fuck off.
We're like this is me and thisis hope.
And honestly, being in serviceto other people will keep me
accountable and aligned, andalso my kids.
And so I just trudged forwardwith it and, little by little,
(31:31):
you know, one after the other,people started showing up,
people that I can make an impacton, people that I could know
the way, go the way and show theway for, and that grew really,
really fast and it was beautiful.
However, I had to learnboundaries.
I wasn't.
I was like, well, more isbetter, right, like, let me
(31:51):
throw myself into all thesepeople even more.
And this is where some of theseaddictive behaviors no matter
how good they are and how muchgreat things they do, if you are
depleted and cashed out, that'snot sustainable.
And this is where I wasstarting to swing to the other
end of the pendulum, in a not sohealthy way, but it was hard to
(32:12):
stop it because A it was doinga lot of really great things.
I was healthier than I've everfelt.
I was making more money thanI'd ever made in my life.
People loved me.
I was this beacon of hope, butphysically I was starting to
crumble.
And now, like here I am, 13years later, like finding that
sweet spot in the penduluminstead of being, you know, mass
(32:36):
destruction over here, jumpingout of moving cabs and then, the
other end of the pendulum,self-abandonment, you know,
serve others at all costs,including your own life, health,
emotions, whatever and now it'slike this sweet spot where I
can go between the two in a waythat's super healthy, not just
for and good for other people,but also for me, my family and
(32:59):
the vision that God has for metoo.
You know, I'm not just here tobe the servant.
Like he also wants us all toprosper and be abundant and find
this joy for life, not just inother people, but for what he
has created for us too.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
I love it all.
Thank you for sharing all ofthat, and that's really what it
comes down to, is connection andfinding your community, and I
mean you hear it a lot but likeyou know your tribe, you know
your like-hearted, like-minded,sisterhood, brotherhood, like
this is where it's really at.
I think that.
But there's also this otherpart to it is now you're in a
(33:38):
whole new world and there is athing called spiritual
narcissism.
So yeah, and you know, spiritualarrogance you know, with ego
and you know you can see bothspectrums Right, and so I think
it's just a whole new world ofnavigating.
Now I really believe this is tobe of checking ourselves every
(33:59):
day to operate from integrity100%.
And really lead the way in sucha powerful movement that we hold
each other accountable as wellright Like within our own
spiritual communities and soforth, and so I mean, it's just
been such a joy to connectdeeper with you inside what we
did last year, and I want totalk more about that, just
because we're on the plane ofspiritual practices and really
(34:23):
sinking into that sweet spotwhich is what you mentioned,
which I find so true.
You know, getting away from thehustle, hustle, grind, grind
culture which I think a lot ofpeople are recognizing.
There's not a lot of fullfulfillment in that mode, but
finding your areas of justdeliciousness right we can just
sit in that beautiful feminineenergy and really tap into a
(34:45):
power that's far beyond ourimagination.
So when we talk more about eventhings like connecting with the
creator and going to soul prayerwhat's a great practice you can
kind of share with the audience, just on how they could even
just get back into their body,back into their state of true
being on a daily basis, that canbe quick unattainable.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Well, somebody who has thrived, had the receipts to
show that that masculine energywas really powerful and
fulfilling and moved the needle,and I mean I will say, like
being in the feminine energy,although I love it, it's not a
natural move for me, right?
So this spiritual practice tobe in and I've been in it for
(35:28):
the last year and I will tellyou it is so radically
uncomfortable, like the hustle,the force, the aggressiveness,
like I know how to do that.
I could do that in my sleep andhave been revered for it.
So for me to really be in thisfeminine energy is very
challenging.
So I say that to a lot of youthat you know, you know the
(35:51):
bottom line, the spreadsheets,the measurables, the receipts,
like that's where the actionhappens, but it's in the
creation and the connection inthat feminine energy that makes,
when you do take the action,fulfilling, sustainable, amazing
, like a lot more effortless andit's really uncomfortable.
(36:11):
It's really, reallyuncomfortable.
So you know, you and I had thisbeautiful conversation last
month about transparency versusvulnerability.
Conversation last month abouttransparency versus
vulnerability.
And when I started talkingabout my journey 13 years ago,
everybody was like you're sovulnerable, you're so vulnerable
, you know what You're right,you're right.
And then I was like the more Iheard it, the more I was like
(36:33):
they don't even fucking know me.
They just heard my story ofwhere I've been, but none of
them knew in real time what washappening.
And I think the true essence ofconnection and intimacy with
the right people another bigasterisk right there is being
very discerning of who gets yourvulnerability has been a game
(36:55):
changer for me.
I still don't love it.
I still kick and scream whenI'm doing it.
I just did it.
This last week I'm coming off abeautiful soul girls trip with
all of my tight inner circle andthere was this moment.
I was having a meltdown.
You know, what that looks liketoday is very different.
It's just like closing the door, pumping my arms like I don't
(37:15):
want to talk to anybody.
Like you know, thevulnerability wall of titanium
has come up and thankfully Ihave the right people around me.
They're like we love all of you, you are safe with me.
That's not something I doeasily, but it's so critical, so
critical for me to be in thatdivine order and true connection
(37:38):
.
You know, I've had lots ofbeautiful friendships in my life
and most people felt very, veryclose to me, but they could
only get so far.
Like I said, I've always hadthis wall up, and not just any
wall, but a titanium wall that Iadd layers to the top every
year, every year, and I evenbuilt a moat around it.
(37:58):
So, even as close as peoplehave felt to me, there wasn't
this vulnerability exchange orintimacy exchange and at some
point, especially with moreevolved people, they would feel
like this isn't, like I don'tfeel safe with you If you can't
be vulnerable with me, like howis this safe for me to be fully
vulnerable with you?
And I could see where thatwould happen.
(38:19):
And so the last two yearsspecifically, you know I'd
cleaned house again.
You know this is part of theprocess.
As you go, new levels, newdevils kind of appear, you know,
within yourself and in yourenvironment.
And I had to clean house againto make room for the people that
I would feel fully safe beingvulnerable with.
Aside from my two children,they get full vulnerability from
(38:42):
me, but some of my closestfriends that not only are safe
to be vulnerable with butactually are wise, where I would
actually trust their advice,not just like oh, I'm gonna hold
space for you, like, no Like,even in the midst of their own
shit, they can show up fully, be, be wise, a good steward of
(39:02):
their giftings.
But it's still reallychallenging again.
But how bad are we wanting tostep into the, the highest
version of ourself, to whom muchis given, much is required.
With great reward comes a hugefucking responsibility, and I'm
committed to that, no matter howradically uncomfortable I am.
And so this last year I've beenin my full feminine energy and
(39:26):
I am not a fan and I also reallyfucking love it, because
everything that is for this nextlayer of my life, this next era
of my life, my curtain call, soto speak.
You know this curtain call andthe legacy I'm going to leave
behind.
This is required because I'mrecalibrating to not just be the
(39:47):
force that I am.
I know I'm a force like as agiven.
I've been a force since, youknow, I was two feet tall, but
now to be this divine feminineforce is like the real glow up
and the real flex, and so I'mhere for it, no matter how
uncomfortable it is.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Deep bow, sister Deep bow.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
That is so uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Oh my God, that is the real work in real time.
Attention, all my soul sisters, imagine this eight
days of pure transformation ata private 10,000 square foot
villa, overlooking the AegeanSea.
Yes, as in Greece, as in thisSeptember, where we will dive
deep in sacred circles,releasing, renewing and
(00:27):
reconnecting with your highestself Heal in the crystal clear
waters of the Aegean Sea,letting the waves carry away
what no longer serves you,you'll enjoy private boat rides
to hidden coves and a soulawakening visit to the iconic
Mamma Mia Island.
Every meal, a nourishingexperience crafted with love by
(00:49):
our private chef.
Enjoy moonlight rituals,ecstatic dance, sound, healing,
breath work, sacred ceremonies,dancing lessons as in Greek
dance lessons, cooking lessons,so much more.
This is a once-in-a-lifetimeexperience that you do not want
(01:10):
to miss.
Everything is designed toawaken the divine within.
This is more than a retreat.
It's a homecoming to yourself.
So are you ready to transform?
If so, then join us in Greecethis September.
(01:40):
You can head on over to chr anincredible episode.
If you've ever struggled totruly understand yourself why
you react the way you do, whatdrives you and how to break free
from old patterns, then today'sepisode is going to be a game
changer.
My next guest is a master atusing the Enneagram as a
powerful tool for self-discovery, healing and transformation is
(02:06):
a powerful tool forself-discovery, healing and
transformation.
In this episode, she shares howunderstanding your core motives
and fears can unlock deeperself-awareness, stronger
relationships and even greatersuccess in business.
We'll also dive into thebalance of masculine and
feminine energies, theconnection between personal
growth and entrepreneurshipenergies, the connection between
personal growth andentrepreneurship, and how to
(02:27):
shift old narratives that nolonger serve you.
If you're ready to step intothe next level of your life with
clarity, confidence and purpose, then keep listening, because
this conversation is packed withwisdom that will shift your
perspective and help you takeaction.
It's an honor to sit and sharein conversation today with the
(02:49):
legend herself, tracy O'Malley.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
It's like you wrapped up all 50 years of my life in
all the things you know betweenbusiness and spirituality and
personal transformation, likethat's what this whole life is
all about.
And yeah, I've got a lot ofhistory there, so you sure do
yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
So we're gonna go deep, deep today and I love it.
I love it too.
And a quick note Tracy and II've known of her for several
years, but we met at uh,connecting with the creator
classes, with Katie Kylene lastyear.
We did two certificationstogether.
That was really powerful.
So we'll be talking about thattoday as well.
But let's take us back.
Take us back to before thetransformation, before all the
(03:29):
healing and personal growth.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Well, I think I'm in a constant state of healing and
transformation and if you aresomebody that is raising your
hand and saying I want to be thebest version of myself, know
that it's not a box, you check,it's not something we do one
time, like there's been manyevolutions, you know, even
before the obvioustransformation, the one that was
very holy crap, like move theneedle like 10 levels, but I
(03:55):
feel like there's always beenlike a next level, a next level,
a next level, another layerthat we're unpeeling.
But you know, in, I'd say, thelast 15 years, you know that
ability to acceleratetransformation is kind of what
everybody has gotten to see andbenefit from quite honestly
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So how?
You've always been a highachiever.
Is this been in your bloodsince you were a little girl?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
You know I don't.
I, yes, yes, I am a highachiever.
However, I don't achieve justto achieve.
I will go head first and kickanybody's ass in my way when it
gives me independence andautonomy and some form of
control in my life.
I don't like to rely on people,but just to win things.
(04:42):
To win is not my deal If we'replaying something and I really
don't like to rely on people butjust to win things.
To win is not my deal.
If we're playing something andI really don't care like we play
Catan at my house all the time.
It's this board game and it'sfun for me.
I'm competitive, but I don'treally give a shit about
achieving a win there.
I'm more about like how can Ilearn from this experience,
playing with all these differentpeople to better myself, you
(05:07):
know, in longevity.
So I would say I've always beena high achiever.
I grew up in a household back inChicago and I'm the oldest
daughter.
I'm an Aries, enneagram 8, youknow all the things that it's
like check, check, check, check,check.
Yeah, she's a fireballBasically.
I have no water in my astrologychart.
(05:28):
It's pretty much all fire andearth.
And my dad when I was fouryears old I'll never forget it.
He looked down at me and youknow I'm looking up with these
big green eyes and you know healways said like your job is to
be independent, learn how tomake money in your sleep.
Don't let anybody control you.
Don't ever rely on anyone.
I was like okay when I was fouryears old, so I'm naturally
(05:51):
wired like that.
Plus, the conditioning that Igrew up with has always fed into
if it's to be, it's up to mekind of energy for sure Were you
raised in any sort of religiousfamily, religious upbringing at
all.
My grandmother on my dad's sidewas like the uber Catholic, like
(06:12):
the rosary, like no birthcontrol, like next level kind of
Catholic, and my dad went toCatholic high schools and
Catholic schools and he was theoldest of seven by the time.
He was an adult.
He was like I am not forcinganybody to do this, so you know,
when we were with Graham, youknow we talked about God and I
(06:32):
was always interested, thoughyou know, growing up in the home
that I did, it was an alcoholichome.
It was very unstable.
Mom was emotionally completelychecked out.
Dad was the Jekyll and Hydealcoholic.
I'm the oldest child.
My sister was a train wreck.
In the most respectful way, shewas like I will get attention,
(06:53):
no matter how I can get it, andit was usually not good.
So I'm here like playing chesswith the family and you know,
sundays were kind of like whenthe dust settled.
Everybody would say thank God,it's Friday.
I hated Fridays because it'slike we're going to whoop it up
and you never know what you'regoing to get.
But by the time Sunday rolledaround, it was quiet in the
(07:14):
house in the morning, probablybecause people are hungover and
sleeping it off and nowhere tobe and football Sunday and all
the things, the things.
And I'll never forget.
I was nine years old on a Sundaymorning, it was pouring rain in
Chicago and I got on my bikeand started riding around from
all these differentdenominations of churches.
You know, in this five mileradius that I lived in, there
(07:36):
was like Baptist and Christianand Catholic and Lutheran.
And I rolled up to this Baptistchurch as a nine-year-old and
pouring rain and I walk inlooking like a drowned rat, a
nine-year-old and pouring rain.
And I walk in looking like adrowned rat and like if this
happened today, you know, someauthorities would probably be
called.
And it was weird because Iwalked in and it was the Baptist
church and I walked down thesteps like the lobby was down,
(07:58):
and all of a sudden it was likethe Red Sea was parting as I
walked in and you know it'salmost like the wave,
everybody's starting to look atlike this little girl walking in
.
And I stopped in front of thisguy I don't even know who he was
at the church and he's likewhat are you doing here?
And I just said I have no ideabut, I know that I'm.
(08:19):
I want to understand what thisis all about, and he handed me a
Bible and I never really tookit further than that.
I had always been interested.
I always had a relationshipwith a God of my understanding,
good, orderly, direction, g-o-d,and I was always seeking it out
and trying to tap into it.
However, when life would lifeme, I was like that's cute, god,
(08:41):
but I'm going to play my ownhand here.
You know what I mean.
So I never really understood orwas modeled what living in
faith was.
It was like if it's to be, it'sup to me.
You know I'm going to play myown deck, but I was always
interested and deeply connectedand I also have, like, some
channeling that I have gifted,been gifted as well, so, but I
(09:04):
didn't know how to make anysense of it.
It definitely wasn't taught,told or modeled to me in a way
that I respected.
It was like, yes, we love God,but then we do shit.
That's so out of integrity.
But I was always seeking it.
I was always, always seeking it.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Well, it's within you , right.
You feel you're part of yourbeing.
I wanted to talk more aboutthat because I know we shared a
conversation in connecting withthe creator on, you know,
obviously, having these gifts,and whether they're quote
unquote psychic abilities orthey're just, you know it's God
within and we're just so tappedin and tuned into that essence.
When was the first experiencefor you that you can remember as
(09:39):
a young girl, when you thoughtbecause I think we had a
conversation of this inconnecting with the creator
where you actually saw?
Was it you who said they sawangels?
Somebody in the Connecting withthe Creator said that and I
thought it was you.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
No, that wasn't me.
I've never like seen angels, soto speak, but I have seen the
gift of God and like the divinewisdom, and I think it was four
years old the first time that Ireally understood that this was
much bigger than me.
Four years old, the first timethat I really understood that
this was much bigger than methat all of this was much bigger
than me.
You know, four years old was thefirst time I remember even
(10:12):
self-abandoning myself for theneeds of my father.
You know my role, or what Ithought was my role, you know,
like a good, codependent littlegirl that I was, was being
accommodating and accessible forwhatever my dad needed, and
that could change on a dimeright.
And there's this beautifulpicture of me.
I'm the cutest little thing andI'm four years old and in the
(10:34):
picture is me kind of standingground in front of my father,
who's passed out in like a lazyboy, you know, and like even the
look on my face is like keepmoving y'all.
Nothing to see here, nothing tosee here.
And I, through all those times,I remember the presence of God
(10:54):
saying this is all going tomatter for something much bigger
than you.
Just hold on, Just hold on, Iam with you, Lead me.
You know, I was like lead me,guide me, walk beside me here,
because I don't know.
So I always felt it, saw it.
And there were days that I justI was like this fucking sucks
(11:16):
and this is not fucking fair,Like I don't want this calling,
I don't want this to be biggerthan me, I just want to get
through a day.
And you know, there weremoments that I leaned in and
others that I numbed out to tryand silence all of it.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
That's just so, when you think about just that, the
weight on that little girl'sshoulders that had to even have
to experience that Right Like atsuch a young, young,
impressionable age, and I wastaking care of my little sister
as a four year old.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
She was two, you know , I was left not alone but like
to tend after her, you know, andthere were accidents that
happened because, hello, I wasfour.
Like she drank bleach, I pulledher teeth out with a jump rope,
she got bit by a dog, she brokea few arms.
You know, like I was just a kidleft to be responsible for her
(12:02):
and even though, like I was very, very mature for my age and
even adulting, I mean myneighbors had me baby.
I was telling this story theother day.
My neighbors, when I was nine,they had three boys under five
and I was left babysitting themovernight.
Like who does that?
Yeah, I mean I was super, ubermature, but I was still just a
freaking kid trying to figurethings out and felt the weight
(12:24):
of that responsibility.
And also, you know everything'sand you know it's like I felt
the weight and the depth of thatresponsibility and also I felt
so fucking proud.
And like the ego.
It's like, yes, I am strong andpowerful, yes, and so I made it
my mission to show the worldhow how much I could carry on my
(12:44):
shoulders, how strong I couldbe, and you know, when your ego
really likes it, plus, it feelslike, you know, this armor of
protection, people will utilizethat.
They think they're helping youand in a lot of ways they did,
because I am who I am.
Because of that, and also a lotof this destruction that I've
caused in my own life is fromthat responsibility, that over
(13:06):
responsibility, that I have feltmany, many times in my life.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Let's talk more about that.
So I know you're very openabout your sobriety journey and
I love talking about thesemoments that you know we reach,
like the depths of helloftentimes, and then we can pull
ourselves out of it, which isto me like the real success in
life, to go through all of thethings and feel every bit of it.
Can you just take us on thatjourney and what that looked
like?
Because I mean obviously comingfrom such a heavy childhood,
(13:33):
really taking on so muchresponsibility and being in
survival mode.
That led to a lot of yourdecisions later on in life, but
you were able to really comefull circle from that and rise
and evolve to where you're attoday, to really come full
circle from that and rise andevolve to where you're at today.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Well, the whole thing about, you know, sobriety for
me, like, obviously I had adysfunctional relationship with
alcohol.
Obviously I've had a verydysfunctional relationship with
food, with relationships withpretty much everything.
I've had a dysfunctionalrelationship and I think a lot
of these addictions that comeout of this are symptoms rather
than the thing.
And you know, I always said Ididn't want to be like my dad.
You know, I didn't want to bethis Jekyll and Hyde.
(14:12):
You never knew what you weregoing to get.
And you know, my first drinkingexperience was when I was 15.
And I realized pretty quickly Ididn't do things like other
people.
You know, I grew up in the eraof Zima.
So yeah, that dates me.
Yes, I'm 50 something years old, but you know, everybody was
drinking Zimas and wine coolersand they're so cool and I'm like
(14:32):
give me the SoCo.
You know my first drinkingexperience was SoCo and I drank
a fifth of it and I will neverforget, like, that first sip,
that first sip.
It was like, you know, becausewhen you're carrying the weight
of the world all the time andyou're pretty tightly wound and
you're a little bit intense,right, and although I love that
I'll eat intensity for breakfast, being that tightly wound all
(14:55):
the time, like think of like anInstapot, it's going to blow
eventually, right.
And that first sip was like andI felt like I could exhale for
the first time.
And I think where that became aproblem for me was I was
chasing that first sip feeling.
Not the first sip, not thedrunk, I didn't.
(15:16):
I didn't like getting blackoutdrunk, I didn't like what.
I became so out of controlsometimes.
But I wanted that first drink,first sip feeling, the exhale,
the peace, the calm.
And I thought like I could justhave that and I would test it,
like I didn't physically becomeever addicted to alcohol, like I
(15:37):
could easily stop.
And I would test it.
Like in college when I wasdrinking, the entire baseball
team under the table.
I was like, see, like I'm a probut I can stop at any time and
I would easily.
No problem, 30 days, no problem.
I'm not like my dad, he drankevery day.
And then obviously I getmarried and have babies no
(15:58):
problem, no problem.
But when it became a problem andunmanageable is when I did do
it, you never knew how far itwould go or how much had been so
repressed that it was going tospew out like volcano lava onto
anybody in its path and thatwasn't a pretty picture and it
usually went out onto the peoplethat I cared about and this
went on.
I'd have a blackout.
(16:19):
I'd be fine for a year, noproblem.
I didn't need it every day, butit was more for that exhale
pressure release that I noticedthe problem.
But I didn't realize that Iprobably shouldn't have this in
my life until my dad passed awayand I was 40 years old.
He was diagnosed with cancer andgone within 12 days and you
(16:40):
know he never recovered.
He was a very high functioningalcoholic, never missed a day of
work, you know, never lookedhungover, like the whole thing,
which was very confusing, youknow, and I was like I'll be
damned if I fucking repeat this,because I know where this leads
for them and I started to seesome behaviors in them that some
(17:09):
were similar, some weredifferent, both were destructive
and I know, like you're goingto do, what is taught, told and
modeled for you and what I'mmodeling for them is absolutely
unacceptable for their future,for me, and I'm not going to be
as I do, as I say, not as I do,you know.
I'm not going to be thatbullshit.
You know I'm somebody whoprides himself on walking their
(17:29):
talk and, um, I had quitdrinking because I just I was
like this serves no good in mylife and they need me now.
They were 14 and 15 at the time.
They need me to be clear andpresent and like fully alive.
And then my dad died.
I was about 30 days intosobriety when my dad died
suddenly and stayed soberthrough the whole thing.
(17:51):
And my sister, she she had analcohol problem and a drug
problem too and she picked afight with me at his funeral and
I was like, seriously, she's solucky I'm not drinking right
now, because I could literallyfucking kill her, like I
literally could.
I was like this is nuts.
I ended up relapsing about fourmonths in the guy I was dating
at the time.
He's like you've been doing sogood, what's one weekend going
(18:13):
to do?
I was like you know what You'reright.
And that first sip was likethat first drink feeling like I
had at 15.
I'm like, see, it's not aproblem, I just I know this is
just the first drink feeling.
We'll leave it at that.
You know, the next day I'mblacked out, drunk, belly up at
a blackjack table, you know,with a bucket of Crown Royal.
This big and jumping out ofmoving cabs.
(18:33):
And that was the last day I waslike I don't have an alcohol
problem, I have an emotionalproblem and I need to figure out
emotional sobriety, because aslong as I have emotional
sobriety, this is a non-factor.
And so that's where thatjourney began.
And then I realized very easily, although alcohol is the
obvious problem, it's the food,the disordered eating with food,
(18:54):
that will actually kill me.
And I walked into rehab andtold my therapist I'm like
listen, listen, nancy, I knowlike I'm here for the alcohol,
that one's easy for me, but I'vebeen hiding this other
disordered kind of eating.
You know bulimia, anorexia, youknow abusing laxatives, you
know all the things I'm like.
(19:14):
If I don't tell you about this,I'm going to lean into this
instead of that, and I refuse todo that.
I need emotional sobriety andI'm here for it.
And that was almost 13 yearsago.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Amazing Congratulations, thank you.
That's a huge, huge win.
I always find it so fascinating.
So you just got to a momentwhere you could actually flip
the switch for the most partbesides that first four months,
whatever relapse you mentionedbut you hit that aha moment of
like.
Did you have a piece of thatwhere it was like I might die
(19:46):
and then my kids won't have?
I mean, were you, was it thatdown deep or was it more of just
?
It was more about the legacy.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I was leaving my kids , okay, and in my kids I, you
know.
After I jumped out of themoving cab cab and rolled into a
ball onto Las Vegas Boulevardand I sat on the corner in front
of the Bellagio thinking aboutmy life, I was like this is not
all life is supposed to be Ihaven't gone through everything
I've gone through to have it endlike this.
And I don't want this for mykids because if you don't repair
(20:15):
it, you repeat it, or it getsrepeated or both.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
I was living proof of that and and I wanted better
for them.
But it took me breaking thecycle.
And you know, one thing aboutme is like I have to have my
back pretty much hard pressedagainst the wall for me to do
things.
I don't recommend that.
However, that's kind of, youknow, part of the calling on my
life, I think.
And I think just sitting there,humiliated with myself, and
(20:41):
it's either I beat myself upinto oblivion, and this is the
legacy, or I learn a new way,and that would mean unlearning
everything the first 40 yearshad taught me, which, you know,
we were very prideful, you knowIrish pride, you know very stoic
and strong and loyalty and allof that.
(21:01):
And in order for me to get theemotional sobriety I desperately
needed and desired, I was goingto have to break ties with
pretty much anything andeverything and everyone that was
part of my life to do it.
Because that conditioning andenvironment, you know you hear
environment stronger thanwillpower, Like I don't care how
(21:21):
freaking strong you are, thatwill take you out every time.
And so I needed to play indifferent sandboxes, so to speak
.
I had to walk away veryviolently at the end of a
relationship in the middle of myearly days of sobriety, Like I
ended up in an ambulance, youknow, in the first six months of
my sobriety, because I sodesperately wanted to have both.
Like I can fix this relationship.
(21:43):
He was just like my father,Like he was a good person, but
like Jekyll and Hyde, I can bein that and do this.
And God was like that's cute,you cannot.
How bad do you want it?
How bad do you want thiscalling that's on your life to
not just impact your family butyou and beyond?
And I, yeah, I just flipped aswitch and said this is where
(22:05):
that part of the story is over.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I love it.
I talk a lot about recreatingyour life right and recreating
your reality, and in my book Italk about, you know, getting
rid of the old programming thatwe were taught and told you know
since we were, since we werelittle kids.
Getting rid of the oldprogramming that we were taught
and told since we were littlekids.
And so let's share with thelisteners, let's give them some
really good value on how tonavigate, just recreating a
(22:27):
whole new world for yourself.
And it doesn't matter, it can be, alcohol, it could be drugs, it
could be sex, it could beshopping.
Check, check, check, check,check.
There are so many addictionsout there that people are facing
that we can help them navigateinto a whole new way of being.
So what did that look like foryou?
Or even, how do you teach yourclients right now?
How do you guide that wholeprocess on where to get started?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
and, in your expert opinion, I think you have to be
willing to disrupt every area ofyour life If you really want it
as bad as you say you want.
You can't.
Most people make that decisionwhen they're radically
uncomfortable and they just wantwhatever you know.
Insert your choice here.
You want whatever to stop thepain, the scarcity, the fears,
(23:13):
like whatever, Like I justwanted this to stop.
And this is why only 2% recoveris because we say this when
we're in triage, when we're incrisis, when we're like white
knuckling life.
But then the thing, the minutethings get a little bit more
like okay, this isn't so bad,Like I got this or you know, a
(23:33):
pattern that maybe isn't asunhealthy shows up.
It's like, yeah, see, it wasn'tthat bad, but this isn't that
bad.
And then it's just a matter oftime before we're back, even
worse, where we're in thedysfunction.
And I knew, and you have to ifyou really want to transform
your life, you have to bewilling to disrupt all parts of
(23:54):
it, especially when it doesn'tmake sense and especially when
the very people, the veryenvironments that keep you in
that state, start talking shitabout your growth.
Like you have a decision tomake.
It's like this fork in the road.
Are you going to go down thepath where everybody that you've
ever known and everythingyou've ever done is down there
and you know how that goes andsometimes that known is way
(24:15):
easier to accept and toleratethan the unknown.
Known is way easier to acceptand tolerate than the unknown.
And for true transformation toreally happen you have to be
willing to go down the road.
You have no idea what's infront of you or who's there or
who's left, and it's disruptive.
It's very disruptiveemotionally, physically,
spiritually, financially,sometimes even no-transcript and
(25:07):
wellness space with a femaledominated in a female dominated
industry and I notoriously didnot work well with women you
know,or get along well with women.
I was, you know, the onetalking ESPN and and golf scores
rather than shopping and lipgloss, you know.
Or get along well with women.
I was, you know, the onetalking ESPN and golf scores
rather than shopping and lipgloss, you know.
But here I was disrupting mylife, all areas of my life, and
(25:29):
it was cool because I wasintroduced to the Enneagram in
rehab by my therapist and Iwanted nothing to do with it.
But it gave me this.
You know, I've always kind ofput puzzle pieces together.
Growing up in an alcoholic home, you have to be able to read
situations and put the rightpieces together, like I said,
playing chess.
When I was introduced to theEnneagram, even though I wanted
(25:50):
nothing to do with it, and cameinto it kicking and screaming,
all of a sudden it gave me thislanguage to what God had been
showing me all along.
And it was actually like thisroadmap.
And when I was a little girl,for fun, I used to read the
Atlas, before there was GPS onour phones.
The Atlas Atlas, the yellowcovered spiral bound Atlas, and
(26:11):
I used to get made fun of for itbecause I'd be sitting there
reading, like Iowa, and I wasjust fascinated like how does
all of this connect?
And if we want to get from hereto there, how do we get there?
Like I've always had that kindof brain and, you know, come
full circle with the Enneagram.
It's a navigation systemourselves or we stay in this
(26:42):
little bubble, we venture out inlife and we have to know which
roads lead us to the fasterroute, the scenic route, all the
things.
And the Enneagram kind of gaveme a language that I'd already
been using, but with morestructure, not just for myself
but other people.
And when I was disrupting mylife and taking my life to
ground zero, walking away fromthe boyfriend, walking away from
financial security, walkingaway from the career that I was
(27:03):
like really, really great at,and using my own navigation
system and the divine order ofGod, like everything in my
household changed with my kidsand I.
You know one of the thingsthere's the promises of AA, and
I remember the first day inrehab reading them and I was
sobbing because I was like, howis any of this possible for me?
And my favorite one I love themall, but my favorite one was no
(27:28):
matter how far down the scaleyou have gone, you'll see how
your experience can benefitothers.
And I was like, okay, this iswhat this is all about.
This is what this is all aboutNot just for me and my home and
my family, but beyond.
And we'll take it from there.
And I remember I was about fourmonths sober and they had me
speak at my first AA meeting andI was so nervous and like way
(27:52):
over prepared which I neverprepare- you know, now Like I
have like the preparations thatI do, but nothing like I did for
like a five minute, you know,talk to the rooms of AA.
And I remember when I got downand it was clunky, I didn't even
look at my notes, like all thatpreparation, and I just went
like divinely and intuitively,and I remember somebody saying,
(28:16):
um, you're gonna do this, thisfor a living, like you're going
to end up doing this for aliving because you are so
powerful before, beyond what youcan even imagine.
But I had no idea what thislooks like and I was like my
life.
I was like I don't even knowhow I'm going to like pay the
rent on my house that I'm in.
I don't even know how I'm goingto put my son in baseball
cleats.
He was showing up in rippedpants and holes in his cleats
(28:39):
and a borrowed baseball gloveand you know, my daughter was in
theater.
I'm like I have no idea howthis is going to happen, but I
believe it's possible and I willmake it happen.
But I was disrupting my lifeconstantly in a healthy way, not
in the destructive ways that Iwas doing.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
A mustard seed of courage, that's all it takes I
mean it's to show up, and sothen, how did you transition
into trusting that more and moreand more, and what steps did
you take in this new journey?
Because I think it's yes, weall have this great idea.
Okay, I'm going to just throw abomb on it all and then start
anew, if you will.
What did that look like, though, for the next months to come?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Well, I think the biggest part and I will say this
over and over and over again is, like the company that you keep
, the environment that you arein, will dictate the resolve you
have to see this through.
I had literally had wiped outmy entire social network anybody
that wasn't my two children.
I was willing to lose, and Idid, and so it.
So it was.
It was kind of this I didn'thave all this chirping in my ear
(29:43):
or the who does, who the helldo you think you are or you
shouldn't do that?
I mean, I had like a familymember that was like you
probably shouldn't do that.
You might want to get a realjob, but it takes somebody
special to do that.
And I was just like grab yourpopcorn because it's going to be
really fun for you to watch,like it was one of those things,
like I know I don't know howI'm going to make this happen,
(30:03):
but I know why and I know who isleading me and I just I had not
a lot of you know, chirping inmy ear and I just head down.
You know I took care of my bodyfirst.
My spirit, my mind andeverything else was really
falling into place and I didn'twaver from that, even when it
didn't make a lot of sense, andI threw myself into the service
(30:25):
of others.
I built a brand new communityaround me and people were
inspired.
I was like shit for 40 years.
I kept this vulnerability andthis transparency at bay.
I was like you're only going tosee the stoic rock hard, can't
fuck with me, girl.
And that changed in sobriety.
(30:47):
I was like when I heard thestatistics about how many of us
actually maintain recovery andit's only 2% I was pissed off
that more people that have madeit weren't talking about it.
And that's something thathappens with me.
When I get pissed off aboutsomething, it's like well then
I'm going to do it, because youknow we need more stories of
hope and that it's possible.
And so I was like I'm going toblow my fucking anonymity out of
(31:09):
the water and I don't even givea fuck.
And it upset a lot of my family, like it did.
They're like who are youtalking about?
I'm like fuck off.
We're like this is me and thisis hope.
And honestly, being in serviceto other people will keep me
accountable and aligned, andalso my kids.
And so I just trudged forwardwith it and, little by little,
(31:31):
you know, one after the other,people started showing up,
people that I can make an impacton, people that I could know
the way, go the way and show theway for, and that grew really,
really fast and it was beautiful.
However, I had to learnboundaries.
I wasn't.
I was like, well, more isbetter, right, like, let me
(31:51):
throw myself into all thesepeople even more.
And this is where some of theseaddictive behaviors no matter
how good they are and how muchgreat things they do, if you are
depleted and cashed out, that'snot sustainable.
And this is where I wasstarting to swing to the other
end of the pendulum, in a not sohealthy way, but it was hard to
(32:12):
stop it because A it was doinga lot of really great things.
I was healthier than I've everfelt.
I was making more money thanI'd ever made in my life.
People loved me.
I was this beacon of hope, butphysically I was starting to
crumble.
And now, like here I am, 13years later, like finding that
sweet spot in the penduluminstead of being, you know, mass
(32:36):
destruction over here, jumpingout of moving cabs and then, the
other end of the pendulum,self-abandonment, you know,
serve others at all costs,including your own life, health,
emotions, whatever and now it'slike this sweet spot where I
can go between the two in a waythat's super healthy, not just
for and good for other people,but also for me, my family and
(32:59):
the vision that God has for metoo.
You know, I'm not just here tobe the servant.
Like he also wants us all toprosper and be abundant and find
this joy for life, not just inother people, but for what he
has created for us too.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
I love it all.
Thank you for sharing all ofthat, and that's really what it
comes down to, is connection andfinding your community, and I
mean you hear it a lot but likeyou know your tribe, you know
your like-hearted, like-minded,sisterhood, brotherhood, like
this is where it's really at.
I think that.
But there's also this otherpart to it is now you're in a
(33:38):
whole new world and there is athing called spiritual
narcissism.
So yeah, and you know, spiritualarrogance you know, with ego
and you know you can see bothspectrums Right, and so I think
it's just a whole new world ofnavigating.
Now I really believe this is tobe of checking ourselves every
(33:59):
day to operate from integrity100%.
And really lead the way in sucha powerful movement that we hold
each other accountable as wellright Like within our own
spiritual communities and soforth, and so I mean, it's just
been such a joy to connectdeeper with you inside what we
did last year, and I want totalk more about that, just
because we're on the plane ofspiritual practices and really
(34:23):
sinking into that sweet spotwhich is what you mentioned,
which I find so true.
You know, getting away from thehustle, hustle, grind, grind
culture which I think a lot ofpeople are recognizing.
There's not a lot of fullfulfillment in that mode, but
finding your areas of justdeliciousness right we can just
sit in that beautiful feminineenergy and really tap into a
(34:45):
power that's far beyond ourimagination.
So when we talk more about eventhings like connecting with the
creator and going to soul prayerwhat's a great practice you can
kind of share with the audience, just on how they could even
just get back into their body,back into their state of true
being on a daily basis, that canbe quick unattainable.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Well, somebody who has thrived, had the receipts to
show that that masculine energywas really powerful and
fulfilling and moved the needle,and I mean I will say, like
being in the feminine energy,although I love it, it's not a
natural move for me, right?
So this spiritual practice tobe in and I've been in it for
(35:28):
the last year and I will tellyou it is so radically
uncomfortable, like the hustle,the force, the aggressiveness,
like I know how to do that.
I could do that in my sleep andhave been revered for it.
So for me to really be in thisfeminine energy is very
challenging.
So I say that to a lot of youthat you know, you know the
(35:51):
bottom line, the spreadsheets,the measurables, the receipts,
like that's where the actionhappens, but it's in the
creation and the connection inthat feminine energy that makes,
when you do take the action,fulfilling, sustainable, amazing
, like a lot more effortless andit's really uncomfortable.
(36:11):
It's really, reallyuncomfortable.
So you know, you and I had thisbeautiful conversation last
month about transparency versusvulnerability.
Conversation last month abouttransparency versus
vulnerability.
And when I started talkingabout my journey 13 years ago,
everybody was like you're sovulnerable, you're so vulnerable
, you know what You're right,you're right.
And then I was like the more Iheard it, the more I was like
(36:33):
they don't even fucking know me.
They just heard my story ofwhere I've been, but none of
them knew in real time what washappening.
And I think the true essence ofconnection and intimacy with
the right people another bigasterisk right there is being
very discerning of who gets yourvulnerability has been a game
(36:55):
changer for me.
I still don't love it.
I still kick and scream whenI'm doing it.
I just did it.
This last week I'm coming off abeautiful soul girls trip with
all of my tight inner circle andthere was this moment.
I was having a meltdown.
You know, what that looks liketoday is very different.
It's just like closing the door, pumping my arms like I don't
(37:15):
want to talk to anybody.
Like you know, thevulnerability wall of titanium
has come up and thankfully Ihave the right people around me.
They're like we love all of you, you are safe with me.
That's not something I doeasily, but it's so critical, so
critical for me to be in thatdivine order and true connection
(37:38):
.
You know, I've had lots ofbeautiful friendships in my life
and most people felt very, veryclose to me, but they could
only get so far.
Like I said, I've always hadthis wall up, and not just any
wall, but a titanium wall that Iadd layers to the top every
year, every year, and I evenbuilt a moat around it.
(37:58):
So, even as close as peoplehave felt to me, there wasn't
this vulnerability exchange orintimacy exchange and at some
point, especially with moreevolved people, they would feel
like this isn't, like I don'tfeel safe with you If you can't
be vulnerable with me, like howis this safe for me to be fully
vulnerable with you?
And I could see where thatwould happen.
(38:19):
And so the last two yearsspecifically, you know I'd
cleaned house again.
You know this is part of theprocess.
As you go, new levels, newdevils kind of appear, you know,
within yourself and in yourenvironment.
And I had to clean house againto make room for the people that
I would feel fully safe beingvulnerable with.
Aside from my two children,they get full vulnerability from
(38:42):
me, but some of my closestfriends that not only are safe
to be vulnerable with butactually are wise, where I would
actually trust their advice,not just like oh, I'm gonna hold
space for you, like, no Like,even in the midst of their own
shit, they can show up fully, be, be wise, a good steward of
(39:02):
their giftings.
But it's still reallychallenging again.
But how bad are we wanting tostep into the, the highest
version of ourself, to whom muchis given, much is required.
With great reward comes a hugefucking responsibility, and I'm
committed to that, no matter howradically uncomfortable I am.
And so this last year I've beenin my full feminine energy and
(39:26):
I am not a fan and I also reallyfucking love it, because
everything that is for this nextlayer of my life, this next era
of my life, my curtain call, soto speak.
You know this curtain call andthe legacy I'm going to leave
behind.
This is required because I'mrecalibrating to not just be the
(39:47):
force that I am.
I know I'm a force like as agiven.
I've been a force since, youknow, I was two feet tall, but
now to be this divine feminineforce is like the real glow up
and the real flex, and so I'mhere for it, no matter how
uncomfortable it is.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Deep bow, sister Deep bow.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
That is so uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Oh my God, that is the real work in real time.
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