Owning the interview with Jenna Mulherin (Part 2)

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello everybody, welcome back tothe All Figured out Podcast.
My name is Andrea Barr. Welcome to the show.
Thank you for joining me again this week.
It is great to have you here andif you clicked on this episode I
have a feeling you either a justlove the show and want to hear
me talk or you are in the marketfor a new.
Job or you're super? Prepared and you just want to be

(00:22):
ready in case the dreamiest of dream jobs comes your way and
you want to own the interview. So today's episode is like I
said, all about upping your interview game.
Now I originally recorded this conversation with Jenna
Mulheron, who fun fact has sincemade a very exciting career
pivot of her own. And while she is no longer

(00:44):
running her business owned the interview, her years of
expertise and experience in HR and recruitment, plus the
strategies she shares in this episode are just so relevant
that we are going to air anyways.
So in this episode, you were going to hear us talk about how
do you can confidently prepare for an interview without
sounding over rehearsed, which Iknow was a really big, you know,

(01:05):
it's a fine balance there. The biggest mistakes that
candidates make and how to avoidthem, why your mindset matters
just as much as your resume and how you can really like, you
know, fine tune your mindset going into an interview and how
you can own your next interview even when you feel
underqualified. Jenna's advice is super
straightforward, actionable and just lovely.

(01:27):
She's a lovely human being and Ithink you're going to really
enjoy hearing tips from the inside of someone who's been in
a jar for over 15 years. She is wonderful and it's a must
listen for anybody who's in the job market.
So without further ado, Jenna Mulheron, you're listening to
the All Figured Out Podcast. I'm your host, Andrea Barr.

(01:50):
I'm a career coach for parents, mom of two, and a
self-proclaimed expert at winging it.
After 10 years in the corporate world, two major career pivots,
and navigating life with kids, I've learned one thing.
No parent. Has it all figured?
Out and that's OK Here, we're all about growing personally and
professionally while keeping family time sacred you'll get

(02:11):
practical tips, career strategies, and musings on life,
plus guest experts to help us fill in the.
Gaps. So grab a coffee or hide in your
car for some the time. We're about to figure out this
work, life and parenting stuff out together.
Well, thanks for coming back on the podcast.
We're a couple minutes later behind the curtain, they're

(02:34):
going to be talking about the interview.
So if you listen to Part 1 of the episode, Jenna so graceful.
She shares behind the curtain again on like her whole career
story and pivots, having two children, the ins and outs, the
making choices and decisions around your career, going back,
starting again. Anyway, it was phenomenal.
It was so inspiring, so many little Nuggets.

(02:55):
And then we decided to decided in the moment that we were going
to cut the interview short and we were going to do one that's
just we're going to go into interviews.
So Jenna is the owner of Only Interview at Only Interview on
Instagram. It's fantastic.
She makes such cool content. We've got some like ring lights
and everything set up here. Both of us have like brought our
like hack equipment. To film this, yeah.

(03:18):
In person. And yeah, she just has like,
really beautiful, very thoughtful and like generous
content. I would say what you put out is
you're not trying to like, you know, like the kids say, like
gatekeeping. There's like no like gatekeeping
to be like, I'm going to give you part of the story of
interviews and then come by thisthing over here.
Although you should buy the stuff that she puts out.

(03:41):
But like, you're just, you're just generous.
And it's like, yeah. And you're honest too about the
stuff that so many of us feel ininterviews, which is like, fear,
I'm not good enough. Who am I and all that?
So you really like, address all that head on.
It's for anybody. But I think especially for
parents, it's a really great place to just feel inspired and
not scared about the interviews and like some tips that you have

(04:04):
about like just how to navigate it.
So OK, interviews. So I know we have to as a career
coach and as somebody who is also in HR, has been an LED, has
an interview company, we have tostart at the beginning of like
the clarity portion. So somebody is and I love
hearing different perspectives. I have my own.

(04:26):
So somebody, you know, say you're chatting with a friend or
somebody that you going to work with and they're like, OK, I'm
gonna go. I really want to land these
interviews. I'm going to go, I've put out
all these job. I see all these job postings.
I was gonna start applying for jobs everywhere.
And then they're like, right. And you're like, huh, Yeah,
share. What's your what's your POV when

(04:48):
you hear that? So this always brings me back to
what do you want? I think that so often the reason
why people are unsuccessful in job interviews is because they
don't know what they want. So they're applying to
everything and then they're going into interviews, maybe

(05:08):
using similar examples in every single interview, or maybe just
subconsciously they are not presenting themselves as the
best candidate for the role because they're like, if I get
this job, I'd be happy. If I get this one, I'd be happy.
If they get this job, I'd be happy.
It's not like the job that they really want.
They're kind of just going for not not to say that they're

(05:31):
applying for things that they wouldn't like.
Yeah, they're applying for all the things that they think that
they would like, but they're notnarrowing in.
And so that's often the first question that I ask people when
they're unsuccessful in interviews is like, do you
actually want this job? And most of the time the answer
is not really. And then what do you?

(05:51):
And then what is that if if theysay not really, it's like the
person's like crap. Like.
Oh no, what's your advice then? Like what is a person to do in
that? Situation.
So then it's. I know that this doesn't work
for everyone. I don't think that everyone is

(06:12):
like a reflector, like wants to go and like spend time
reflecting. But honestly, I'm like, how else
are you going to figure it out if you don't give your time like
yourself, the time to reflect onlike what actually brings you
joy and makes you happy and things.
So it could be journaling for you.
It could be having conversationswith many people.
It could be going for a walk or whatever.

(06:32):
But you do need to create the time and space to think about
what do you actually want and then what comes up.
And I've experienced this myself. 2 is like I want this
thing, but I don't have this. I can't do this.
I I've never done this. Like the all the reasons why you

(06:53):
are not qualified for that job. That is the job that you really,
really want, yes. And then that's when the work
begins. It's the confidence or it's like
that. We're too logical.
Yeah. Like, imagine you ask a child,
what do you want to be when you grow up?
And they're like, I want to be adoctor.
They just say that and that's it.

(07:13):
And then they move on. Versus if you ask someone like
who's even in their 20s, thirties, whatever, they're
like, well, I really want to be a.
They might answer that question like, I really want to be a
doctor. But that, yeah, like.
Go back to school. And then this comes back to the
conversation that we had in episode the first episode, which
was around choice. Because today as a 38 year old,

(07:33):
I could say, or sorry, I'm 39 now.
I just have my birthday. As a 39 year old, I could say
like, I I think it'd be really cool to be a doctor.
Like truly. Yeah, I think it'd be really
cool to be a doctor now or a psychologist now for me to do
that. Like of course all the things

(07:56):
are going to come up like I havelike not the right math.
I didn't learn the right math, Ididn't take this right sciences.
I would have to go back and do all of that in order to then get
probably some version of an underground, my undergrads in
sport management, not relevant to those things.
So then I would have to whatever.
So there is a path that I would have to take in order to do it.

(08:18):
Could I do it? Yes, yes.
The cost potentially is time away from my family, like all
the things, but it's all a choice.
Could I do it? Yes, it's possible, but it's
going to probably be really hard.
Yeah, that's the truth. Yeah.
And what I always say to people in that situation, too, is I get

(08:39):
it. Like, it's it.
It does. It does become like a lot of
people who I'm meeting with in that regard.
And they've got something like really, really that feels really
big. It's often these really big
ones, like what I really wanted to be was a doctor, but I didn't
do it. And now I'm stuck with this
thing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And what I often ask him is like, OK, what is it about that?
And we spent a lot of time there.
It's like, tell me all the quality of what that life might

(09:01):
look like that have that has youbeing attracted like, well, I
just want to be a helping profession.
OK, tell me more about that. Like, and then you drill down to
it and it turns out they just feel like they're not doing good
in the world. They're not exercising the
helping side of them or whateverand in some capacity or they
want respect and they want to feel revered.
And they don't want to say that aloud either.
You're like, well, I don't want to say that that that's it, but

(09:24):
I don't feel respected in my jobright now and I don't feel proud
when I share what I do. Yeah, it's like, OK, we can
like, you know, if it's not, if there are too many barriers,
like you said to cost and time away from family, are there is
there a way to kind of leave it in in other ways?
And so I think that's, yeah, that's, it's so important to
kind of so you get that clarity,you figure it out your job

(09:48):
searching. And there's, I have a couple
episodes on job searching so, well, I want to make sure we're
getting interview things out of you.
So I'm gonna repeat myself in yeah, because I want to ask you
all the things. Um, let's talk about the person
who's going for the job that feels like, you know, it's like
they've got 75% of the job description they're going in and
they have like a healthy amount of nerves, nervousness and that

(10:11):
sort of thing. Let's talk about prep actually.
Yes. How do you suggest?
It can feel very big and overwhelming, and you're like
doing it the night before usually.
And you're like, yeah, what's like, what's the best way that
you've seen or, you know, to be preparing for an interview?
Yes. OK, so let's say you've got to
the place where you know, yes, this is the job that I really

(10:34):
want and you've been taking the time.
Like my recommendation would be that you are taking the time to
think about what are the skills,the ability and the experience
that are required of that job and where in the past have you
gained those things? Maybe not full.
So we're talking about 75%. Maybe you have of the things

(10:56):
that of that 25%, maybe you kindof have like light dusting
experience of that. Yeah, great.
Write that down. Start putting your examples and
ideas together around the different skill, ability,
experience that you had that's related to the job.
And if you're preparing the night before and you're cramming

(11:18):
it all in, that could be quite stressful.
So yeah, it's probably a lot of people are probably doing that,
but my recommendation is like totry not to do that.
And I think a great way, and I think you had referenced this to
me a couple of weeks ago and something that I get my clients
to do as well, which is start, start a list of all the
different things. So when you're going through an

(11:41):
experience at work, you can say like, oh, this is actually going
to be a really great example of me being able to demonstrate my
ability to influence people. Or you have reference like I got
reamed out in front of like a group of people, but maintained
like my confidence and my composure and my presence in the

(12:02):
room and still was able to like get through the presentation.
So anything that you have that happens at work that you think
could be something that you share in the future, I would
write it down while you rememberit in the moment.
So track that in like a Google doc or have your journal or
whatever it might be is like thebest thing that you can do to be

(12:23):
proactive. And then, yeah, if you're,
you're prepping in a like more reactive than I would like, look
through the job description, pull out the skills and ability
that you are required for the job and start to just really
rack your brain for those examples.
Call a friend if you need to to help remember some of those.
Things good one. So like if you work with
somebody like I'm thinking of mybestie that I worked with

(12:44):
Aritzia and if I were going to ajob interview, I would 100%
caller. We didn't always work directly,
but I'd be like, OK, here are some examples and she would for
sure be like, well, what we did this this way, and we did that
that way. Remember that time you were
crying to me about or whatever? It's such a good idea yes, I
love that. And I mean hot tip is with
Chachi BT these days, I love uploading.

(13:04):
I get clients like upload job descriptions into ChatGPT to
pull out skills, abilities, experiences and things like
that. Just to like give you something.
You might see 90% of it, but sometimes tracking PPT can pick
up a few extra ones. You might have a scene and then
just writing like jotting down notes.
It doesn't have to be scripts either, right?
Like no jogging your own memory.And I tell clients, like, pull

(13:27):
it from the back of like your archives to like the forefront,
just to remember. Oftentimes I always compare it
to like cheating in high school,which is not to say that I
cheated in high school, but it'slike the times that you make a
CHEAT SHEET are the he remember everything off the CHEAT SHEET,
whether it's like a study CHEAT SHEET or like you cheated.
Yeah. But anyways, I always think

(13:48):
about that. It's like the things that you
put on, like your little study add are the things that you end
up remembering. So taking the time to reflect on
past experiences gives you the ability to pull it from the
archives and just have it on theforefront.
And the other thing people oftenget stuck on is like, well, I
don't remember the exact. I'm like, just make it up.

(14:08):
Like I'm not telling you to lie by any means, but the way that
you think you handled it, let's just talk about that because if
today you were to be faced with that scenario, that's how you
would likely handle the scenario.
Yeah. So do your best to remember and
if you need to add in some detail of that experience, how

(14:29):
you would handle it today, then talk about that so that you're
not getting like, oh, I can't use that example because I can't
remember this little minute detail in the middle.
Like no one's fact checking you.So again, no like fibbing and
like making up elaborate stories.
But I think if there's certain things like, oh, and then we
created this checklist to make sure that we're all checked.

(14:49):
Like maybe you didn't actually do that, but you it's something
that you now you. Or you would have done like, OK,
how did you remedy the situationthat you messed up?
OK, well, I learned from it and now I create this checklist.
Yes. And yeah.
Like I know it's funny how we think that we are going to be
fact checked. Yeah.
Does that. Have you ever heard of a
situation where somebody has like in a reference, we talk

(15:10):
about references for a second. I think people think that and I
don't know if you know the answer to any of.
So I'm very excited to hear fromyou.
Felt like former HR person. So you're in an interview,
you're telling stories or whatever, and you're sharing and
things are going well. What is fact checked?
Yeah, like. What can they find out about?

(15:31):
Yeah. So, OK, so 2, two things come to
mind. So one is the consistency of the
stories that you tell in interviews across like
oftentimes you'll have like 3 interviews and at the end notes
will be compared or in an inequitable situation, it's

(15:53):
being discussed throughout, which isn't the best because
then everyone has their own opinions and then there's bias
and all the things which unfortunately happens.
But anyhow, the consistency of your stories that you're telling
throughout those interviews is something that will come up.
I don't think that people are actually like what was said here
and what was said here. But I think that for sure

(16:15):
there's other styles of interviews where people say
like, OK, well, tell me about anexperience.
Like they get you to go way backin time.
I can't remember in this at the top of my brain, what the style
of interview is called. Again, I'll have to come back to
you. Yeah.
Anyways, it brings you back to like, OK, so tell me about an
experience in high school, like what were you good at?

(16:38):
And it brings you through your journey from like a moment in
time until today. And they start to see like the
idea as they start to see these patterns about your experience.
Yes. So that allows them then to
identify like, OK, if someone behaves this way, how might they
behave in the future, which is essentially what those questions

(17:00):
being asked are. Like tell me about a time that
you blah, blah, blah to figure out, OK, how did they behave?
How might they be anyhow? So references.
So when someone calls for a reference, most companies have
something like a policy in placewhere they one don't give
references or if they give references, it's only a yes or a

(17:23):
no, like yes we will hire them or no we wouldn't hire them and
nothing more than that. You mean the company that is
that you've interviewed with their policy would be that the
question that they ask is did this person work for you, yes or
no? No, the the one who is the
reference. Yes.
So the reference, the the reference would call Aritzia and

(17:44):
say, yeah, someone from Aritzia and say, oh, did did you work at
a red seat or did this person work at a ritzy did.
Andrea work at Aritzia and these.
Days yes or no, Yes. Would you rehire her again?
Yes or no. And that's it.
Like a lot of times references will just be as simple as that
because the Aritzia, the Lulu Lemon, the whoever the

(18:04):
organization says we don't give references, but we can confirm
or deny. Like we can confirm that they
worked here. It didn't work here.
I didn't know that, yes. So then they'll be like personal
references where you might like offer someone to ask someone to
be your reference. And then those organizations

(18:25):
asking like, the truth is with references, no one's going to
give a reference that isn't going to say something good
about them. So to a certain extent, like I
don't know how useful they trulyare, which is why it's so
important during the interview to actually be asking questions.

(18:46):
Like the interviewers need to beasking better questions to
identify can this person do the job or not versus because even
when you say chemist person do the job or not and you're asking
yes, they could make up a story,but if you're asking the right
questions, you're going to identify by the end of the

(19:08):
conversation if you're a good interviewer.
Yeah. Should I hire this person or
not? Because if you diving, if you're
then drilling into the specificsor asking follow up questions,
you'll be able to see like a a very good.
Yeah. Fiber, of course, they're going
to whatever and like good for them if they get through and
they get the job and like see how it goes and whatever.

(19:30):
But the majority of people are not lying and of a good
interviewer is asking those follow up questions and really
like drill drilling into the experience and like what they
learned and all those things you'll be able to identify.
Does that does that person meet your expectation or not to do
the job? Yeah, you know what?
What's so many things are comingup, but for some reason in this
moment, what I'm thinking about is like how you're interviewing

(19:52):
the interviewer as much as they're interviewing you and how
you're getting vibes. And sometimes you're like, you
know, I'll speak with clients who are like, Oh my God, they
were like super hard on me and like, we're really drilling.
And as you were saying. Drilling.
I was like, that's interesting because you want to be drilling.
Hopefully they're drilling in a kind way, yes.
But then as the interviewee, youhave to also remember that this

(20:13):
is a, it's a lot of money that we spend on human capital and
humans. And it is really important for
them to like what they're doing is they're trying to see if you
are that fiber, if you seem likeyou lack integrity.
So as annoying as it can be to feel like you're being
questioned, it is important thatthey do that.

(20:34):
Yeah. And so you don't have to feel
like, oh, this person seems likean asshole.
Hopefully they're doing it in a respectful way.
You can definitely feel vibe. Yeah, for sure.
But even if they're like drilling down a little bit more,
it's not indicative that like, that's how they're going to run
the show all the time. It's.
Important. Like tell me more about that.
Yeah, like they're wanting more specifics.
Then yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah.

(20:56):
And if you're good, if you're the right candidate or the good,
you're a good person, then like give him, give him everything.
Yeah. So yeah.
OK. OK, like that.
OK, references. So that's interesting.
So there's not a lot. And sometimes, like I am often a
reference for people who I used to manage and who are in like
younger years or whatever. Yeah.
And you get some funny references where they're like,
tell me like what are their strengths?

(21:17):
What are their weaknesses? Which is like, I'm always like,
just give a good reference and like, but I won't try to
elaborate too much, but just know that like that can also be
asked whether or not they're supposed to.
What's that whole thing? So we're in Canada.
What's the whole thing about? Like you're not supposed to give
a bad reference, is that? Well, I think you can just be
held that like if you are preventing someone from getting

(21:37):
a job, OK, then OK, that's a legal issue.
That's so weird. Yeah, OK.
Anyways, no, we don't need to gointo that, but just know
references will be called. Yes, but they're not going to
Fact Check every single story that you gave in the.
Interview and I do think if you are someone that does
references, I would be asking questions that you're going to
learn something about the personthat maybe you wouldn't
otherwise have known about them from interviewing them.

(22:00):
So just I, I would be more strategic with questions like
someone had asked for me in one of my references, like does this
person, they use the same list of reference questions that they
use for their junior team members for me?
So it was something like, does this person show up to work on
time or have a like something crazy like that?
And I was like, they asked you what?

(22:22):
And they were like, yeah, it wasvery odd.
My reference is telling me this.I'm like, that is so bizarre to.
Bizarre. Like that you would ask a
director level about showing up to work on time.
Like like you have this time andspace to ask this, but then
anything about me. But you're but that's what you
chose to ask. So I would just like to.
Say. It just like really look at

(22:44):
those reference questions to seeif there are like even worth
asking. Oh my gosh, that is so
interesting. OK, when you're preparing for an
interview and you're doing your due diligence on the company,
the people that are going to be interviewing you.
OK, first of all, if do you feellike it's appropriate for the
interviewee, the person who's going for the interview to say

(23:04):
ask the recruitment team. I'm just wondering who's gonna
be in the room, who's gonna be interviewing me?
Like what level? Like how much information is
appropriate to? Ask.
Yeah, that is like, that's exactly what I would ask.
So anytime I think an underutilized resource is
whoever initially is setting up the interview with you, like a
talent acquisition team member. Sometimes it's the hiring
manager, but let's say it's someone HR, town, tuition,

(23:27):
someone that's not the hiring manager.
They are a person that you can ask a lot of information from.
They might not give you everything, but that is a great
person to yeah, like leverage that time with them because
they're they're setting up that meeting.
That first conversation is to verify like are you who you say
you are? Like here's your resume and your

(23:48):
resume. I'm now screening you to make
sure that yes, you are qualifiedand have the skill, ability,
experience that we're looking for for this job.
So I'm not going to put you in front of the hiring manager
until I know that I can like that's like the Fact Check I
would say is that screen. And then oftentimes they're
like, OK, do you have any questions for me?

(24:08):
I would just be prepared to ask all the questions there for as
much time as they have for you. So who if I'm moving forward in
this interview, who would my first interviewees interviewers
be? You could ask questions like
based on what you know about thehiring manager's goals, like why
are they hiring for this position?
Like what? What are they looking for in

(24:30):
your opinion? Like really leverage that person
so that you can set yourself up for more success and how you
want to maybe potentially respond to the interview
questions to come. Love that.
Yeah. And I think it's important not
to assume that they know, like understand the scope of the
recruiter. We'll call them, we'll call them
recruiter for the sake of this conversation.

(24:52):
Like don't be like, what's the like?
I'm like, don't ask questions that they wouldn't necessarily
be. Like 100% right and.
Ask them, but I like that, sorry.
This is like oftentimes in a screen, someone would ask me
like, oh, can you tell me what the department's goals are and
the working relationship betweenthe hiring manager, like the

(25:15):
leader and their team members? And like how often do they meet
for one-on-one? So I'm like, well, like, I don't
know the that granular detail. Maybe at a smaller organization,
if it's HR doing it, they might have those ideas.
But like if it's a recruiter, they likely don't have that
information, but they would likely have the information on

(25:35):
like why are we hiring this person and what the hiring
manager's goals are. Yes, because that that they
would need that information to know who to source.
Right, So think of it like the recruiter would have the
information that would be on a brief totally.
That would be like, OK, here's the brief.
In order to go find this person,that's the level of information
that they would have. I have to share an A story on

(25:56):
like a shout out to I interviewed for Lush years ago,
like so, so long ago. I think they approached me when
I was at Aritzia and I didn't end up like moving forward with
them. I think I was like, you know
what, like it was too similar towhat I was doing.
It didn't feel like the right move at the time.
But I have to give credit to therecruiter that I was working
with. He had a funny man.

(26:18):
He was, he was one of the most incredible recruiters I've ever
met. Where he, and you're talking
about Pod Padrick. Anyway, if you're listening
unreal, like honestly unreal. And I'm calling out because he
was just fantastic. The amount, the level of
information that he had was so unreal.
But he was also very much like, Oh yeah, he knew his boundaries.

(26:39):
So he wasn't like making stuff up about like, and I also wasn't
asking inappropriate questions that he wouldn't know, but he
was so he was so honest. He was honest about the makeup
of the team. He was like, this is like the
candidate that I was briefed to go and find.
This is, let me give you some context around like the people
that you're going to be interviewing.
Like it was really cool. And that's maybe Diamond
doesn't, but that made me like really, it was really cool to

(27:02):
like have that experience. And my gut was like, wow, I
really want to move forward. And now I want to take the
interview because yes, that was a beautiful, organized,
organized and she was like legit.
So that was cool. OK, so that's the so that's the
prep. So get some information from the
HR recruitment team, like use that resource in an appropriate
way. Pay your prepping.

(27:25):
So we figure out like you're you're prepping in advance.
You've got your stories lined up.
You've PDF. I'm always saying this like
you've PDF the job description because the job description can
go away online. It disappears.
You've got that. My God, I've like actually done
that before where I was kind of having I had to supply for UBC
at one point and I had to go to the hiring manager or to the
recruitment person, embarrassingly, and be like, can

(27:47):
you send me a copy of the job description?
It's gone. Yeah.
OK, So you're in the interview. You're going to own the
interview. You're just going to own.
It. You're owning it.
Tell me about yourself. This is one of my favorite
things to talk about, but I wantto hear your perspective.
What is the best tell me about yourself statement?
Yes, I think it easy framework to choose past, present, future

(28:13):
there that however it flow is best for you.
But I would say starting with and I would focus because you're
in an interview and it's for career.
I would focus on career and not about your personal life.
However, I will caveat this withif you're applying for an
organization where you know theyreally value the person and

(28:35):
outside of work as well, then sprinkle that into.
Otherwise, I'll keep it to like your career story.
So if you're a Mountaineer applying for Arcteryx, you're
talking about the fact that you're a Mountaineer because
they love. That yes.
And if you're applying for our tariffs for sure you're talking
about being outdoors. They they do they do that.
Yeah, totally true. OK, so that's a great example.

(28:59):
So I would start with like a little bit about your past of
like what got you here? What are you seeing for yourself
in the future? Like what are your future career
goals? And then like, why are you in
this room? Like presently, where are you in
this room? I would I would go with that
format. Love that.

(29:19):
Yeah, so the person has who is interviewing was laid off.
Yeah. I know a lot of people have a
lot of fear and I'm talking to alot of people right now who have
been laid off. I know it's such as life, but it
just feels like there's this energy right now and there's a
lot of things that are tumultuous perhaps in tech.
So the person and let's not use a layoff because I think a

(29:40):
layoff is an almost an easier one where it's like, I'm in tech
and we just did a mass layoff. Like that's kind of like, sure,
what if a person was kind of part of like maybe a smaller
layoff or like their role was, Iknow there's people laminated,
eliminated or not for performance reasons.
Now let's talk. About that like yes.
What are some tips you give for that person to like do the tell

(30:01):
me about yourself? That would feel really anxiety
provoking. Yeah, I think you still go.
I think the past, present and future, it could still work
again in like whatever order youwant to tell it in.
I think that explaining, OK, so let's go to the layoff or like
someone, maybe someone took likea mental health leave or
something like that. OK, So anytime that you're on a

(30:23):
leave, I would not hide from it.It's just like not, not not
putting it on your resume. Like people are going to have
questions about it and they wantto know, but I don't think you
need to spend a lot of focus on it.
So it depends on how much time you're taking off.
So like, let's say like over this last year, I this, this is
what someone could say about their mental health leave.

(30:44):
And they actually don't even of course that you don't even need
to share that it's a mental healthy that you're taking like
I took off the this last year tofocus on spending more time AB
and C. Is it with your family?
Is it with yourself? I have never had the opportunity
since I started working. But from the time I was 13 until
now, I've never taken a parentalleave.

(31:04):
Maybe this is the story. Yeah, I've never taken a
parental leave. I chose to strategically pause
my career and spend time on myself doing a little bit of
travel, doing this, doing that, whatever it might be.
If you're comfortable sharing your mental health story, then
go for it. Otherwise, I would keep it to
the other things and that's all you need to say.

(31:25):
If they have more questions and they'll ask the same thing.
OK, so the layoff like it's been8 months.
So I was laid off. It was a small layoff.
My role ended up being eliminated.
So during that time, again, you could tell the same story.
Like I haven't had any time off since I was such and such years
old. And like, this was an

(31:45):
opportunity where I really got to like step away from the
day-to-day of the like corporateenvironment, which made me like,
which allowed me to learn this about myself.
I don't think you need to talk about like I signed up for a
course and I did this. Like there are people who do
that, but I don't feel like you,you have to come up with that or

(32:08):
that you need to do that during that time.
Like what we didn't talk about at the beginning of this, which
I meant to say was like applyingfor jobs is a full time job.
Like I truly, that is a full time job.
And so that's what you're doing.You're spending time searching
for the right position. And I think if you could, you

(32:29):
could talk about that too and and say something along the
lines of I've been laid off for eight months and the reason why,
like when we all know what the market is like.
But two, like I am being really strategic.
I want to work, but I want to make sure that I'm applying for
things that align with my careergoals.
And I don't want to take just any job and at some point maybe

(32:53):
we have to work on due jobs thatwe don't want to do.
But if this person is in the position where they can like
choose something that's really strategic, then talk about that.
So those are some various ways that you can navigate that.
But All in all, I would say is don't spend a lot of time on
that. Like you can keep it.
Short yes, you don't have to focus on it.
It's like when you click on it, you saw another tick tock and it

(33:16):
was just like somebody who like did something embarrassing.
Like you don't have to sit therelike Oh my God, I'm so
embarrassed and ruminate. He just continuing to draw.
Attention. Yes, exactly.
And then it and then it's like, oh, why did they feel so weird
about it? Yeah.
Like what really happened? Like there might be even more
questions. So yeah, I love that.
OK, everybody rewind if you're interviewing rewind, it's like
relisten to that because it's it's honest and and you don't

(33:40):
have to give, I think. I think you don't have to give
too many details either. Right.
Exactly. When you're the person you're
like, but I want to be honest, which is such a great thing.
But honesty and rambling and continuing to like, ruminate on
something are two very different.
Yes. Things like I don't encourage
you to go into the interview andsay I've been laid off.
I've been interviewing full on for the past eight months.

(34:03):
Keep getting to the final interview and not get.
It Oh my God. Yeah, because the the
interviewer with even the best intentioned person who does not
want to have bias listening to that is going to make up
something about why that is unintentionally.
So we don't need to put that in their brain.
That could be true, but that's aconversation for for me or for

(34:25):
you to have that like a coachingconversation about that and we
can support you in other ways, yes, but it's definitely not
something that you want to tell the hiring manager.
No. Because we don't want them to
make up the reason why. Because you might not even know
why at that point, you're not getting the job.
I love that. And like, who doesn't want to
hear I'm looking for the right next move.

(34:46):
That is every hiring manager. Recruiters dream to be like,
this person isn't just hitting easy apply like left, right and
centre. They're being thoughtful and
strategic. And who wouldn't want, if
allowed, who wouldn't want to take time off with their kids?
And you know, like if those aren't bad things.
So yeah, OK, I love that. OK, so we're going to keep going
and I'm doing the Tell me about yourself.

(35:08):
Oh, it's 20 minutes later. I'm still talking about myself.
The ramble is real. What do you do?
Like that train that left the station and it's there's no
brakes. Yes.
Jenna like, how does somebody, how do you reel it?
Back OK so first I want to answer this with people ask me

(35:28):
questions like how long is too long for any answer?
Like what's the time frame of answering questions?
There isn't really like a like ablack and white answer to this.
What I would say is the answer is too long when you are not
answering the question and you're not focusing on like
relevant information for them tolearn why they should hire you

(35:50):
for the job. That's when it goes on too long.
So 20 minutes 100% is too long no matter what.
Or if you forgot the question. Or if you forgot the question.
I've done. That, but I would say like let's
say that you're telling me aboutyourself, maybe you are talking
for 5 minutes. Like that's a long answer, but
if you are giving them information that's going to help
them make their choice of whether or not they should hire

(36:12):
you, then I think it's great. Yeah.
But if you're rambling, OK, so now you're in that you're
answering, you're at the five minute mark and you're like
whole gosh, I have been going onfor so.
Long and I haven't even scratched the surface of
answering the question because I've just been rambling about my
mountaineering for 5 minutes. Yes, I would.
Just stop yourself. I would stop yourself.

(36:33):
And I would just say, you know what?
I recognize right now that I am not answering your question.
I recognize that I'm rambling right now.
Like just call it out and be like, I'm going to just tell you
what you need to know, which is this.
I'm in Mountaineer. I love it.
You know that because I've been talking about that and this is
what I want you to know about mycareer journey.

(36:54):
That's important for you to hireme for this job.
Oh my God, Jenna. You're so funny, but the reason
why I love that approach so muchis because it is so refreshing
to be with someone who is self aware.
Yes, and that's all you want as a hiring manager.
Like we hire so many different people and that's what makes

(37:15):
team. That's what makes the team
beautiful. It's like different people,
diversity on our team of thoughtand everything.
So we don't want everyone to be the same.
And the reality is we're going to have the Ramblers on our
team. And like, I am one of those
Ramblers. So that's how I would approach
it is to just stop, call yourself out and then like get

(37:36):
to the point and then move on. And then now we know this.
So reminding yourself after you respond and like finish up that
question, it's like what those things that you're going to do
to help keep yourself on track for the rest of the interview.
So that is not a pattern for thewhole conversation.
Wow. So have a piece of paper with
you. When they ask you the question,
write down the question. Maybe you quickly write the

(37:59):
three different bullets of what you want to say.
Like I want to make sure I touchon this, this, and this.
Give yourself the 30 seconds andthen answer.
Their questions, but that's. OK, you keep on track.
There are no rules to interviewing is what I like to
say, unless you're in like a very formalized setting where
there is like they tell you likeno paper, no, this, no, that,

(38:22):
no, this, So that then then likefollowed their rules.
But generally speaking, there are no rules.
So the same thing with like pausing and being like, Oh my
goodness, I realized I'm totallyoff track right now.
Like let me let's rein it in here.
Like let's showing that self-awareness is so awesome.
And no one said you can't do that.

(38:42):
Yes, just bring yourself back. So I, yeah, I would have a piece
of paper and a pen if you're someone that's like, I have a
hard time staying on track. Yeah, right down the question.
Wow, what a mic drop. What a tick tock moment.
There's the clip, honestly. But like, I would want to hire
that person even if they weren'teven the most qualified.

(39:05):
I'd be like, you're set. You're a real human.
And that's my like, style. But like, I want to work and
hire people who are real, who are self aware, who can make
light of a situation if that's your nature.
Like to be like, Oh my goodness.Like there I go.
You know, it's something I've like, yeah.
And that could be like you're, and then maybe you could do a
callback and like the opportunity section where people
are like, what's your weakness or opportunities?

(39:25):
He's like, well, as formerly seen, like I have a habit of
rambling, but like, I also know that about myself.
So like, I know I have like tricks now to reign it in.
Like there's just just be human.Because yes.
Also I feel like as an interviewer in the past, like
you can see when the person is so nervous or like really going
off the rails and it's like watching somebody on stage like

(39:45):
a kid and you're like, Oh my God, they're about to fall.
Like, yeah. But like, if the person was just
like, oh, man, like, you know, I'm really nervous, right?
Like, I'm feeling a bit nervous.Like I can, I can tell on
myself. It's like, oh, thank God they
know that they're nervous and like we can all just be like
take a deep breath together and just move on.
So I think there's something andand of course, you know, there's
different. Kathy has everything maybe he's

(40:07):
going for like, you know, law firm position.
There's certain like pits and like norms, but I think you can
kind of you would suss that out if that's where you're going
into. Yeah.
OK, so you get asked the question and you blank.
Yes, you're like. And and it's always I feel like
it can often be the. Tell me about a time when you
tell me about a time when you maybe not messed something up,

(40:29):
because we always remember thoseones.
But tell me about a time when you had a situation with
somebody on your team and it youhad to rectify it because it
wasn't a great relationship or whatever.
And you're sitting and you're like, Oh my God, I've had this,
but now I can't think of anything.
What do you suggest? Then I think so.
I think this directly goes back to your preparation because

(40:52):
unless you have interviewers that really don't know what
they're doing, because interviewers are going to ask
you questions to understand can you do the job or not?
They've given you a job posting that tells you what they're
looking for. So if you've gone back to that
and you've gone through it and you've thought of examples that
you can pull from and you know, with the like top things are

(41:14):
that they want in this person. You've got to assume, of course,
because you're not talking to them, but you're, you're, you're
taking all of the information that you have, which is the job
posting. I think that first and foremost
is often the reason why like someone that I was recently
helping this past week, She, she's really great at copying

(41:34):
the, the questions that they, they give her.
And then she'll come back and belike, oh, these are the
questions that they gave me. Oh, cool.
Yeah. So she'll always, she'll always
have them. She's this is someone that I've
supported over the years with interviewing for different roles
that she's pursued and gone. Cool.
So anyways, she had sent me the,the recent list of questions

(41:54):
that she was asked in an interview, none of which were
the interview questions that we prepped with, but all of which
were versions of them for the most part.
And she pulled an examples that we had gone through and talked
about and refreshed in mind. And she she did have examples
for everything and multiple different things that she could
have pulled from. So if you really are stuck and

(42:18):
you have nothing, I would give yourself time.
And I think having that piece ofpaper in those moments I give
you or someone that you can anticipate, I might forget or I
might lose my train of thought, it might not.
I might go completely blank. I would have a piece of paper
that you can just even write outthe question because that might
bring up something for you and give yourself time to think

(42:42):
about it. Like you don't feel like you
have to respond right away. Like give yourself that 30
seconds or whatever it is that you might need.
Yeah. And then if you're still stuck
on that, then I would start sharing an example of a time of
like, like, not be specific and be more general about it.
And I think once you start sharing that, it might, you

(43:05):
know, trigger, yeah, trigger something like.
And so then you're answering thequestion.
Maybe not in the format that youwould like.
You're giving them an example, ahypothetical scenario, and then
you could say and just specific example of this is this.
So you're giving yourself time to tell how you would handle it.
Maybe remember something and then at the end share the

(43:25):
specific. Example, OK, like that versus
being like wow, nothing's comingto me in this moment not instead
of calling that out yeah, just be like how I would approach
approach it would be this yeah, and OK and.
Don't even say I can't think of anything.
I would just say so how how I would approach that scenario is
ABC, Yeah. And then if you can think of

(43:48):
something, then share this specific at the end.
Yes, OK. Okay, weaknesses yes that are
well everyone jugs. It's like you were like, I'm
like 2 detail oriented. I'm like too punctual.
I'm too like I'm too perfect, whatever, Like I just care too
much about my work Mom. I know we're all like it's
everyone. We're past the point of like

(44:09):
that. Yes.
How do you answer it so that it is in your opinion, so that it's
it's honest. It does show your character and
your ability to do the job. I like that you keep saying that
like how it relates back to you being the perfect candidate or
the person who can do this job. Yes.
How do you how do you do that? How do you answer?

(44:31):
That yes. So do you not choose the thing
that is the most important thing.
So if you're looking at the job posting and you're like, I know
that they need someone who is like a clear communicator who
has strong leadership skills andhas project management
experience. And maybe your project
management experience is 75% there.

(44:53):
You haven't done like this largescale event or whatever before.
Like maybe we're not going to draw attention to that because
they the job is large scale events.
Like I've done project management for everything but
large scale events, but the job itself is a project management
role for a large scale event. Like maybe I'm not going to say

(45:14):
my weakness is this. Genius.
Maybe or maybe you, maybe you might say like I have all of
these great experiences and the one thing that I haven't had the
opportunity to do yet is a largescale event.
And So what I know that's different about a large scale
event versus something that's smaller is your ability to

(45:37):
communicate, your ability to be organized, your ability to
really lead and influence peoplein those environments while your
project managing because you're dealing with that many more
vendors. So while I don't have that
direct experience, I know that my other experiences that I have
in this, this and this are what is going to be required of me in

(45:58):
this role. So you could respond to it in
that way too. Love it because it's true.
Like if you know it's I like theidea.
OK, so the format of like don't pick.
If it's like great communicator,don't pick.
That rambling is your weakness. But if you know, like in this
case, if you know the question is going to come up around the

(46:20):
fact that you have not done a large scale event and it's very
obvious, I kind of like that Youlean in and you call it out.
Yes. Did you read Chris Boss's book
Never split the Difference? No negotiation.
No. OK, Everybody has to listen or
read. Actually listen to it on
Audible. It's a quick book.
He's a former CIA hostage negotiator and he's now a

(46:40):
negotiation expert in like corporate and stuff.
He's even on master class. It's such an awesome book
because he's basically it's fun because it's like a movie.
He's talking about hostage scenarios that he was in and how
as a negotiator, these like tools and tactics in which you
negotiate with terrorists, yes, can apply to everyday life.

(47:00):
And one of his principles was around like leaning in and like
when you know, like when you know, there's a situation where
like the person that you're negotiating with is like not
going to budge or going to be pretty like not happy about said
situation about the fact that you have not done a large scale
percent or the fact that you want them to release the
hostages that they are holding captive because they're pissed

(47:20):
off. You're like calling out there
like I know, or like just basically what you said, I'm not
even going to say as eloquently as you did, but it's like, yeah,
I've not done a large scale event.
And here are all the things thatI that I that make me excited
and ready to do that. And so it's like, OK, *** like
hostage person. Like I know you're really upset
right now and that's why you're holding on to these people.

(47:43):
And like, you know, that I really need these people to be
with. Let's just call it out that like
dance around the backs that we all know love that yes, so we
have to read that bug it's so. Good.
It's basically everything you'resaying.
Yes too. And OK, so don't.
That is such a hot tip. Don't pick the most important
thing to the. Job yeah.

(48:03):
And so that is like, I like how you distinguish if we're looking
at the job posting and there's these three things that they're
looking for, let's not choose one of those per say.
And your example about the rambling and communication is
perfect. And then alternatively, if
you're looking at the job posting and you know, the the
most important thing, yeah, is probably experiencing leading

(48:26):
something like large scale events.
Let's lean into that. And maybe in your example of the
pivot that you made in HR and perhaps you wouldn't have gotten
through the, the applicant tracking system because you
didn't have per se formal HR experience, but you got in
through knowing somebody and having a great reputation.

(48:46):
That's an interesting like kind of parallel perhaps too where it
probably was. Was it discussed in your
interview? Pleasure.
You didn't. You don't have this.
Let's talk about it. And you had to.
Talk. About it, basically, say what
you said, yeah, like, yeah, I can do it, though.
I've done everything. Else I've literally done, yeah,
I just haven't had the title before.
Yeah. So I would argue for that leader

(49:07):
large scale event example, that person could sit in the room and
present a really strong case forwhy they still are like
qualified for the. Job.
OK, OK. We're getting close to the end
of the interview and you're justfeeling like very weird vibes
from the person. OK, How much do you think is

(49:27):
that? I don't even know.
This is like how long this pieceof string?
But how much do you think of that as like in our heads of
like feeling nervous and excitedabout the interview versus being
like, I really don't think this is going well and I don't know
how to salvage? Yeah.
What does one do in that moment where you're just feeling weird?
And yeah, I don't know. How much did you read into that
too? Yeah, I would say how well do

(49:50):
you know yourself? So like, are you an intuitive
person? Like not everyone like to A to
an extent everyone is, yeah. But like, how intuitive are you?
Like, are you pretty bang on forother times when you're picking
up on vibes And it is the case, then like maybe you're going to
pay more attention to that if you're getting that sense in the
interview. If you're someone that just like

(50:13):
you find yourself creating stories often and assuming that
like people don't like you and things like that, which I'm not
making people wrong for that. But if like that is comes up for
you, then like recognize that inyourself.
Like I'm doing this right now inthe interview likely, so I need
to let that go. And so in those moments, it's
kind of the same thing. Like we're both legs crossed.
Like put your feet on the ground, like adjust yourself,

(50:36):
take a sip of water, take a deepbreath, like do those things
right. I think that is a great way to
help. In the middle.
There's like, what else you're going to do?
You can't get up and leave. No.
So, you know, stick through it, the stickiness and the like
luckiness feeling and I think breathing and yeah, keep trying

(50:57):
to get grounded and taking some water and taking like the 30
seconds you might need for that.Maybe the next question that
gets asked to just stop, stop atthe story and just I am here for
a reason. I believe that I'm qualified for
this role and like I'm going to keep answering the questions as
best as I can. Yes.
So that's what I would do there.If you are picking up on the

(51:18):
vibe, you know that you like, like you can trust that like
this is probably not going well.I would say closer to the end of
the interview, I would ask like,based on all of what I've shared
with you, like is there something that I haven't
discussed with you or that I could go in one more detail to

(51:38):
like help ease or help you make your decision, like a version of
that. And I think you could ask that
question regardless of the vibe in the room, but I think that
gives the interview or time. So it's not like catching them
off guard in the middle of the interview when you're like, I
could sense that my response didn't really quite answer what
you were looking for. I mean you could maybe say.

(52:01):
Was that what you were like? If you really catch it, like was
that? Did that answer your?
Question was that on on the on the right?
Yeah, something like was that, was that what you were looking
for maybe in a more casual way? I don't know.
Otherwise at the end, I would say that you know, like I've
really enjoyed our conversation.I feel like I've been able to

(52:21):
share with you my career journeyand some of my skills and
ability. Is there anything left that you
have in your mind about my experience or anything that I've
shared with you that you want more detail on now that we've
like had this conversation before I leave something like.
That love that's positive too versus saying like is there
anything where I didn't hit the mark or are there any question

(52:42):
marks like, yeah, that's a bit of a different way of putting
it. So I like that.
It's like anything else that I could elaborate on or any other
questions that I could answer tohelp you make this decision.
Yeah. Fantastic.
OK, I have to ask about the follow up.
You got to send the e-mail. You got to send.
Thank you. If you're Andrea, when she's 18

(53:04):
years old, No 22 finishing university.
Jenna. I can't wait to hear this.
I hand painted a card. Oh, that's so.
Cute. Did you get the?
Job I did. Yeah, I wore it.
First of all, it was a Oh my God, I forgot about this.
I was an intern. I was going for an internship at

(53:26):
DB, which is an advertising agency.
Young and Bloor. It was like big deal.
And I bought a suit from Banana Republic.
Wow. Yeah, because I thought that you
should wear a suit. And then I'm like, Oh my God.
We were like almost sweatpants to work.
But hey, we're suit was on my cottage that that following
weekend and I hand painted with watercolor.

(53:48):
My mom paints. So watercolored 2 cards for the
two interviewers and then hand wrote the note and then mailed
it. That's so nice.
And I also didn't know if it wasOK to call them by their first
name. So, Lee Farlow, I said.
Dear was Farlow, Yes. And they love that.
But like, did they? Did you ever talk?

(54:11):
I should have. Oh my gosh, you should message
message and ask. Her you should.
Be like, was that like, like they were probably gonna hire me
after the interview, I'm guessing and then they got that
like where they're like lolling about it.
I don't. Know yeah did they even get it
and inter office mail? Maybe not.
Well, you know what, she did send an e-mail to thank me for
the handwritten part, which I sofunny.

(54:32):
Anyways, I don't trust. Yeah, OK.
So, so many people actually don't send these emails.
Yes, yes, I know. I think in certain environments
like public facing jobs, they have like strict criteria around
like did you meet the competencyrequirements like their

(54:53):
checklist of things, grading youall the things.
So I think you e-mail in some people's eyes like doesn't make
a difference because you're still going to go with whoever
meets the the strict rubric of their hiring for, yeah, for like
a government may be facing job or, or public service or
whatever. So that's fair.

(55:14):
Although I would still argue like just thank them for their
time. I think that's positive.
Then I would say that for any other role, yes, sending a thank
you e-mail within 24 to 48 hours, it's going to keep you

(55:34):
top of mind for the interviewer.And I think that to me allows
them to just, yeah, keep you topof mind.
Think about the conversation shows like you care and you're
excited and then in that thank you e-mail, you can say like I
really enjoy connecting with you.
I really, I'm even more excited about the job.
I think that my experience in maybe this one particular area

(55:58):
that you talked about during theinterview is going to would like
really be helpful for the role based on our conversation and
I'm looking forward to hearing next steps.
Yeah, so short and sweet. Yeah.
Make it personalized to the discussion.
Yes, like a little callback to something that you were speaking
about, something you learned so that it's not just generic.
But don't make it too long and don't ruminate.

(56:18):
Don't be like sorry about such and such, and don't be like
apologize. Just chill, thanks for your
time. Thanks.
For your time and if you don't have the e-mail address of the
hiring manager, do you get it from the recruiter or do you say
could you pass this? Along yeah, I would send an
e-mail to the recruiter and say hey, I've drafted an e-mail here
for the hiring manager. Like if you're able to pass

(56:41):
along this, I would really appreciate it.
Otherwise I would love their e-mail address to fix myself.
Something like that. Yeah great.
But just like make it 1 e-mail so that they don't.
You don't have to go back and forth with them.
Yeah, it's good one. Yeah.
Love that. And then you own the interview.
And then you own. You've owned it just like
absolutely owned it. You came back from rambling,

(57:03):
yes, you talked about the fact that you were fired, laid off.
You took a 10 year career break and came back and you were able
to talk about like we've we've hit all the situations, anything
else that you're like, these arethe things that kind of come up
but. Yeah.
I think the last thing I would say is often people ask like
what questions do I have interviewers?
And so I would just keep in mindto not ask anything that is

(57:27):
already in the job posting or about the organization that you
can look up and be resourceful and find on your own.
I would also not ask the question.
So I'm telling you the opposite,but I would not ask the
question. Like how could I have done
better in this interview? Like let's not put them on the
spot like so that I would not ask and I wouldn't ask any

(57:51):
questions that are like interview type of questions to
the interviewer. Like oftentimes people will
sideline. Can you tell me about a time
when you had an employee that you know you weren't seeing eye
to eye? Like how did you handle that?
Like that is not the time and space for it.
I would say that if you were truly looking to understand more

(58:14):
information like that, that is aquestion that you could ask at
the end. So you get presented an offer
and now you're wondering, OK, I've I like the company, I like
the job, I appreciated the conversation, but I have some
like nitty gritty things that I wanna know.
Ask to have another conversation, like a casual
conversation where you can have that type of like Q&A with the

(58:38):
hiring manager or if there's someone else in the organization
you want to talk to, make those requests.
But I wouldn't do it in like theinterview that is set for you to
be asking, like for you to be telling them why you're the best
person for the role. Even if it's the final
interview. I think you can leave the
conversation with like, I've really enjoyed this

(58:59):
conversation. I have a couple of things that
are top of mind for me, but I think I can save those for our
next conversation when we move to the next step or something
like that. Yeah.
And then in that conversation, what I would be wanting to know
is more around, like, maybe you ask a question about how the
team works together. Maybe you ask a question about,
like, what do you wish that you knew sooner?

(59:21):
OK, so one of my former bosses, she used to say like the best
question she's ever heard is a version of this, which is what
is something that you wish that you knew sooner when you started
this job or started working at this company that would have
allowed you to get into action more quickly?
Cool. I love that question so much.

(59:41):
But do you wish that you knew sooner in starting this role or
that working at this company so that you could have gotten,
like, moved into action sooner? Yeah.
So basically, like this person wants to work hard.
Yeah. And they want to know.
Yeah, like how can I hit the ground running?
Yeah, right. I love that so much.
Because they could take anything.

(01:00:02):
They could say, actually I should have just waited.
I should have just been more of a fly on the wall for the first
three months. Or they could say, you know, I
would have gone for coffees withpeople on the team.
Like I would have built those really like that's so they could
say anything. They really could say anything
and then I think it creates somedialogue to just have a
conversation. And then the final question,
which we've touched on already, I would say like, is there

(01:00:23):
anything else that I can share with you about my experience
that would help you make your decision?
Yeah, I think it's great. Yes, and it's important.
I think that's everything you just touched on is really
important. And I think it's important to
remember that if you're still being interviewed, even if it's
a final round and it feels like you've got the job, there's
still a decision to be made. Like if you're in an interview,

(01:00:43):
they could still not give you anoffer.
Yeah. So don't assume that you're
you've got it in the bag. Yeah, like still treated us.
And so don't also use that then as the point to be like, is
there wiggle room on the salary?They talk benefits.
Like I'm not an interview coach,but like I'm always cautioning
people to be very mindful of those questions.

(01:01:03):
Yeah, those are offered. Like get the offer.
Make them fall in love with you first.
Get the offer. And then I actually listened to
a podcast once and they said, like, all their eggs are in your
basket when they make you an offer.
And then when you're when you'rerequesting that conversation,
like you said, I love that. Like, hey, could I have another
conversation? That means that person's already
asked you on like, I asked you to get married.
They proposed marriage to you. So you know that you're not just

(01:01:27):
having a conversation in that moment, but you're still a
question mark. Yeah.
Like, no, they actually like, they really want you.
So they're going to be excited to have another conversation
because you might be on their team.
Yes. And then often, a lot of times
salary is not, it depends on howbig the company is.
But a lot of cases the salary isnot negotiated with the hiring
manager like it's their budget. So there needs to be a

(01:01:49):
conversation with them, but somebody else is having that
conversation with them. You're having a conversation
likely with HR or a talent acquisition team member about
salary and they're doing the like they're brokering a deal
if. Yeah.
So that's the person who should be asked those questions.
OK, If you have questions about more about the job, the team
leadership and you weren't able to uncover that in the

(01:02:11):
interview, then it's like, OK, I've got my offer.
We've landed on the salary. All those things look really
good. I'm hoping that I can just have
an 30 extra minutes or 15 minutes with the hiring manager
just to ask a few more questionswhile I like before I sign my
letter. Before I make this decision,
yeah. And then we're like, OK, yeah.
Oh my gosh, I love that. Yeah, shut up.

(01:02:36):
It was so good. I hope to not personally be
interviewing anytime. Soon.
But I friggin love interviews. I think that's such a powerful,
beautiful way to start a relationship.
And I think that hopefully, likehopefully people feel inspired
and excited by this conversationand know that nerves, like
hopefully people are also like remembering that like nerves are

(01:02:58):
excitement as well. But now you're going to feel
more equipped. You're going to own the
interview. Hashtag own the interview.
Hashtag on the interview. At on the interview and I just
so appreciate you like just taking us through this journey.
It like makes me want to interview but not, you know,
yeah, which is probably how a lot of people feel.
They're excited about what's on the other side of the interview.

(01:03:20):
But this is this in the red resume are like very big hurdles
and blockers. So yeah, it's OK.
Everyone's got this. Yeah.
In terms of interviewing you, I asked you this in Part 1 around
like, what are you still trying to figure out in life and
whatever your own life. Yeah.
In terms of interviews and navigating owning an interview,
what would you say? OK, what would you say most

(01:03:43):
people are still trying to figure out in order to own an
interview, what is like a very common thing that people would
be? I'm still trying to.
Figure out I'm trying to figure out working on.
Maybe like the right amount to prep?
Like not over preparing where you've actually created more
like stress or anxiety for yourself.

(01:04:05):
And then like the flip side of that, maybe not preparing enough
and then not sharing like examples that are actually best
to showcase who you are and why you're the best person for the.
Job love it. Cool.
Didn't expect that. OK, love it.
I so appreciate your time in Part 1 and Part 2.
If you haven't listened to Part 1, it's Jenna.

(01:04:26):
It doesn't really matter if you listen to these episodes out of
order because Part 1 was Jenna'sstory.
Her beautiful career. Don't know flowering.
Oh my God, I think we're going loopy.
We're all like probably hour 2 at this point, but tennis career
story coming mother and now the owning of the interview.
Thank you so much. You're going to help so many

(01:04:46):
people with this. I appreciate you.
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening
and since you made it this far, please share this episode with a
fellow parent who you love, respect, and want to support.
And while you're at it, hit me up on Instagram at All Figured
Out. Andrea, I would love to meet you
and hear what you are trying to figure out these days.

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