Redefining success as a mother (and human!) with Sara Demizio

Ep. 93: Figuring out how to realign your career after kids—and why your wellbeing at work matters

What does it look like to bet on yourself after a successful corporate career? In this episode, Sara Demizio joins Andrea to share how 15 years at Lululemon, a bold leap into entrepreneurship, and becoming a parent to twins shaped her mission to transform how we work.

Sara is the founder of humanhood, a learning company supporting the wellbeing of working parents. Together, they unpack the identity shifts of new parenthood, why returning to work can feel so disorienting, and how to create alignment between your ambition and your actual life.

FULL SHOW NOTES & TAKEAWAYS

In this conversation:

• The “new me” career moment after mat leave

• Saying goodbye to a dream job you still love

• Recurring meetings and boundary-setting at work

• How Sara knew it was time to leave

• Three pillars to make work work

• What to do when there’s no trust with your manager

Related Episodes:

• Ep. 86: How to start a consulting business as a mom: Tiffany Rosik’s career pivot story – Spotify or Apple

• Ep. 88: Finding your flock in motherhood with Gemma Van Slyke of The Motherflock – Spotify or Apple

• Ep. 90: Nomadic work, personal branding and how to “sell” yourself with Sam Burmeister– Spotify or Apple

Guest Bio:
Sara Demizio is the founder of humanhood, a learning company reshaping how we support people at work. With 15+ years of experience in leadership, coaching, and workplace development, she’s on a mission to bring more empathy, support, and humanness into the moments that shape our careers.

Connect with Sara:
Website: hellohumanhood.com
Instagram: @hellohumanhood
LinkedIn: Humanhood

About Andrea Barr, host of All Figured Out:

Andrea Barr is a certified career and life coach who helps ambitious parents take charge of their careers and lives with strategy, intention, and freedom. She rejects the idea that success requires sacrifice—showing parents how to create more time, flexibility, and fulfillment without burnout. Through her coaching, workshops, and podcast, All Figured Out, Andrea shares the strategies and mindset shifts parents need to design careers that fit their lives—so they can thrive at work and at home.

Connect with Andrea via Instagram ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠ or her website ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome back to the All Figured Out Podcast.
My name is Andrea Barr. Thank you for joining me again
this week. Today's episode is it's such a
good one. It is just on the nose.
It's going to hit home for so many of you if you are a working
parent, which I know many of youwho are listening are.
And it's especially going to hithome if you've ever found

(00:21):
yourself just kind of tiptoeing around your needs in general,
your needs at work, and how you kind of just relook at who you
are now that you are the workingparent.
And I had the lovely Sarah DiMaggio on the podcast.
She's the founder of Human Hood.And it's a learning company
that's reshaping how we support people at work, especially

(00:41):
parents. She spent over a decade at
Lululemon. She had twins in March of 2020.
So a bit of a precarious time. And she returned to work in the
thick of the pandemic, working remote and parenting and all the
things. And she's using all that
experience now to support a working parents, working people,

(01:01):
to be more well at work. And so we get all into the work
that she's doing, her career story, the twists and turns that
took place. And we talked about a three-part
framework, if you will, of how to just rethink who you are at
work. We talk about how to have a
tough conversation with a manager, how to rebuild and

(01:23):
relook at trust with said manager.
We talk about self-awareness andwe talk about just what it means
to be a working parent right now.
This is such a fun episode. I have a little marker button
that I can click on my recordingsoftware to like mark moments in
the episode. And I was just marking things
up. So you are going to love this

(01:45):
one. Please enjoy and go find Sarah
to book her for some sort of lunch and learn.
Go get her course that she's gotonline.
She's amazing and I cannot wait to hear what you think.
You're listening to the All Figured Out podcast.
I'm your host, Andrea Barr. I'm a career coach for parents,

(02:06):
mom of two, and a self-proclaimed expert at
winging it. After 10 years in the corporate
world, two major career pivots, and navigating life with kids,
I've learned one thing. No parent has it all figured
out, and that's OK. Here, we're all about growing
personally and professionally while keeping family time
sacred. You'll get practical tips,

(02:27):
career strategies and musings onlife, plus guest experts to help
us fill in the gaps. So grab a coffee or hide in your
car for some the time. We're about to figure out this
work, life and parenting stuff out together.
Sarah Damasio, thank you so muchfor joining me on the All
Figured Out podcast. Thank you for having me.

(02:48):
I'm so excited to be here. I've been looking forward to
this all day, all month. I don't know.
So sweet. I also felt like the five second
countdown felt very long. We were just gazing at each
other's eyes. 7 It's all right. What is it called eye gaze?
Isn't it called eye gazing? Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, psych thing you can do. I read that as like a tip.

(03:10):
It's like every day you should do some eye gazing with someone
like whoa, every day. We have to do that every day
now, in addition to meditating and drinking water.
Also, like as an entrepreneur, you're like who?
Who was the person I will choosefor this task?
Yes, because if I'm looking at the camera here, I'm not looking
at you. So really I'm just green light

(03:32):
gazing into my little camera's eyes.
I don't know. I'm so excited to talk to you.
We had an intro call. We were put in touch from our
mutual friend Sydney and we could have we afterwards we were
emailing being like, we could have talked forever.
So like so many people I meet, I'm so happy that we can
actually hit record so other people can hear the conversation

(03:54):
and the incredible experience and life that you've lived.
So I want to take it back. You are the founder of Human
Hood, but you weren't always a founder and you were on a huge
career trajectory. So you know, in the best way
possible. Let's start with what was the
what was the moment in which youwere like, OK, I think I'm going

(04:15):
to do do my own thing. And how does that tie into your
parenthood journey and all that?Yeah.
Oh my gosh, that's a good question.
And just one that I feel in my body, you know, like it's like
one of those things. I think my first sort of like
reaction to the question is likeI felt it in my body and I

(04:35):
really felt it in all parts, like mind, body and soul that I
was ready. But I guess to give a little
context, I spent almost 15 yearswith Lulu Lemon.
I, I know you're from Vancouver,so I'm sure a lot of people who
know you or have met you been connected to that sort of
Vancouver based brand. But I, I just had this moment

(04:59):
later on in my career where I could really start to look
forward. And I think the kind of
connection point to having kids.I was maybe 2 years back from my
maternity leave by the time thatI decided to step into this
entrepreneurial human hood journey.
And I really knew that it was like a new me setting career

(05:22):
goals for myself, if that makes sense.
And that was kind of the like the the moment that it started
like trickling into like something I could, I could see
and I could identify and I couldstart to strategize with.
It had like shifted from being like a gut feeling to being
something that maybe I was beingpulled away from things or
towards new things. And then started to be able to

(05:44):
say like, oh, I actually can, I can actually start to see this.
I can strategize around this. And then once it was like in all
parts, it was like, OK, this is all systems go.
There's absolutely nothing holding me back but time so.
Yeah. And like so you said that you
were a new you and you would create a New Girl, you know, new
career goals in this new versionof yourself.

(06:05):
Did your old self ever envision leaving Little Lemon or maybe
leaving the company short at onepoint, but like, foraging on
this type of path? Like, are you one of those
people who had the entrepreneurialism in your
blood, in your bones? Such a good question.
I always would identify for myself like long, long term
goals, like I wanna be running my own culture and brand

(06:28):
company. I wanna be connected with like
minded people, like mostly womenand like have this like really
clear female leadership company firm.
Like I I never could really identify how I would get there.
And I really was like, this is it.
And I think I had a bit of a forgetting for a bit and that's

(06:50):
what I like remembered that I wanted.
Does that make sense? And I think part of.
Yeah, right. Like, because I feel like
there's such a tendency. And I felt this personally too.
When you're in your career and you're like advancing, you're
doing great things, you're building your resume, your, you
know, having all these new and incredible experiences,

(07:12):
experiences and making connections.
Like you're going deeper and deeper and deeper into a, a
lane, an industry, A-Team even or a company.
And there's so much time spent like, like getting deeper in
that. And I think the further you sort
of sink into that part of the culture, the easier it is to

(07:34):
sort of forget the rest of what makes you you.
And I actually was just listening to one of your
episodes where you talked about like, kind of like the pH, like
you're like the water of the culture at a company.
And that really resonates for meas like, there's something about
like you just jump in so wholeheartedly, or I did
personally in a way that allowedme to succeed and see all these

(07:58):
great sort of like wins and things I could feel really proud
of. And at the same time, was that
my goal, or was that the goal that made sense for the
trajectory that I found myself on?
If you hadn't had kids, where would you be now?
Ah, what a great question. If I hadn't had kids, where

(08:26):
would I be now? Not that you could know for
sure. Not that I can know for sure,
but I think I can attribute A boldness and a clarity from
becoming a parent that I think allowed me to be able to say

(08:47):
like, no, I'm ready to bet on myself.
Or like I'm ready to put my weight behind the things that I
believe and the things that I believe that I'm capable of and
the things that I believe can becreated for the world.
And, and at the same time, you know, a, a bit of a, an

(09:08):
intuition and like a knowing, aninner knowing that I think
becomes clear for a lot of people when they become
apparent, they're like, oh, actually I'm a boss now of a new
team and I am the decision maker.
And a lot of these values, thesedecisions have to be made all of
a sudden when you become a parent, so.
Yeah, the hospital or not the 104 temperature like is this

(09:31):
hospital, is this not 811 will always tell you or in Canada
811. Always.
Tell you to go to the hospital and you're like, OK, is this
hospital? Is this not always constantly
like the highest risk situationsversus you and I both have
worked in apparel and I totally resonate with what you said
about being so in the culture and ingrained and then coming up

(09:52):
for air every so often and be like, we're just making clothes.
It's yeah, like, yeah. Even though there is there is a
spirit and ethos about these companies and it's important
what you it is important to, youknow, be in a culture and love
what you do, whatever it is. But like, at the end of the day
when you're splitting hairs and people are crying in the
bathroom, you're not that. That's what happens with those

(10:14):
companies all the time. But in general, in the corporate
world, anywhere like, it can hityou so hard and you're just
like, wait, we're just making clothes.
Yeah, and and I think with it's funny.
Yeah, it is funny and it is, it is.
I think, you know, it kind of steers me towards the idea of
like just awareness and self-awareness because like I, I

(10:35):
found like, I again, like, I am so grateful.
I like feel like I grew up in this incredible organization.
And at the same time, if all, ifyou look for yourself somewhere
else, you'll never find it because you're not there.
You are where you're looking from.
And so there's part of it too, that like I, you know, some of

(10:56):
the roles that I was in towards the end, like I was originating
roles like I was like making up the job title and writing the
description for myself. Like, because I had been there
so long and was able to like bring this entrepreneurialism,
this like futuristic, I could like build into the future,
which I think, you know, was theearly humidor goodness of my
personality and my my skill set.But part of it also is like I

(11:19):
was in a role where I was doing social impact work, which was so
meaningful to me. And I think that was also the
moment where I'm like, oh, I'm doing such important work, but
it's still isn't it still isn't right on to what I believe I'm
capable of. So I think there's something
there of like no matter even if you're even if you're not
working in a, you know, a company where it's like can be

(11:41):
stressful or can be like, OK, isthis really life or death in
this moment? But like, even if you are in
some of those roles or types of works, like you have a moment
where you're like, is this form for me?
Is this right? And is this right right now?
And all of that is just. Is this right and.

(12:01):
This right right now. That's so good.
It's so true. What was like, what was, what
would you say? No, there was 15 years of
evolving roles within the organization, but like when you
left, it sounded like it was as close as it could get.
What was the role that you were working in social impact
related? Oh my gosh, the best role ever.
Like truly, I was the program manager for innovation basically

(12:27):
within our social impact world and engagement.
So like it, it was essentially pulling our tenured employees to
connect them with some of the incredible organizations we were
working with within our social impact centre and initiatives.
So how do we give back and connect our tenured employees to

(12:47):
be able to contribute on like basically a paid sabbatical
program for this? Like how yeah, it was like so
fun, like leadership developmentand impact and, you know,
connecting and recognizing employees and this incredible
work across North America. And it was piloting.
So it was a lot of like doing what I believed and putting, you

(13:12):
know, trying new things. And all of that was like the
best job ever. You know, it was, it was the
best. And I said goodbye at the same
time. And and so you said that you
knew in your bones it was time to say goodbye.
What about it was the subject matter of what you were doing,
the nature of the work, working for somebody else versus
parenthood? Like, tell me about like, what

(13:33):
was really going on, if you're willing to peel back the onion a
bit. Yeah, You know, I a lot of it
for me, um, like we were speaking about a little bit
earlier when I sort of started taking stock at like what's
ahead. And I think what became really

(13:56):
clear for me was that when I wanted to throw it ahead, I
wasn't able to do that. I was a remote employee from
Toronto. So like there was a part of
that, but like I had a bit of a ceiling on how I could grow.
And I think a lot of people, especially because like when you
become a parent, it can happen at a time when your career is
really strong. You're like, I know what I'm

(14:18):
doing now. I know my value, I know what I
can contribute and where I can take this.
And so it was a bit of a moment where I was like, OK, I'm back.
And I've been back long enough that I know where I want to take
this. And I, and I couldn't anymore in
the same way that I thought I once wanted to.
And I, and I think part of that is like acknowledging the

(14:41):
constraints that are real in a good way, like good that, you
know, a company has a head office and people work there in
person. That's actually great.
And so like, if I am choosing a different reality where like I
don't live in that city and I'm within a remote capacity, like
remote is awesome and remote is different and it's a choice.

(15:04):
And it's a bit of a like merriment of like, OK, does this
fit? It's an integration within my
plans and their plans. And so at a certain point, I,
when I wanted to reach new career goals after I had like
hit that career milestone of like having kids and I was, you
know, complete in that regard and then could sort of look
ahead. I'm like, I can't do what I want

(15:27):
to do anymore. And the ceiling is, is in this
building and I and I, I felt really clear that I couldn't
like have that sort of laneway and like runway.
Guess the world is a better word, like full runway that I
wanted. And once I saw that, I'm like, I
can't Unsee that anymore. This is my time.

(15:49):
Did you ever consider the move to Vancouver?
You know, in previous years, Yeah, it certainly was for a
long time, a long time ago. And I, you know, I think I'm
just an East Coast gal. Love.
That yeah, yeah, it just worked out.
And that's just like the way it's like shifted and worked for

(16:11):
our family. Like we tried it.
We lived in San Francisco for a year and that was amazing.
And also not not where we wantedto like root, you know?
So that and you had twins in 2020, March of 2020.
Yeah. I mean, this could be it's a
whole other episode of podcast episode.

(16:32):
But how how was that experience?How were you then?
Yeah, You know, how was I? Yeah, that's a whole, that's a
whole entire episode. But I, you know, they were born
March 30th. My first day of maternity leave
was the Monday the 16th or whatever day that was of March.

(16:54):
And I, you know, what it was forme that I think is like an
interesting thing to note withinthis sort of audience.
And just this conversation is like what it did for me is that
I think I, I needed something sostrong to like knock me into my

(17:20):
present and like my self-awareness or my like own
situation a little bit when it comes to career.
Because I think that I, you know, I was determined like, OK,
and again, insane privilege to be able to take a long amount of
time off from work. And I, but I, you know, was

(17:43):
like, OK, I'll take 11 months or12 months, but definitely by 12
months, I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back at it.
I'm going to be ready for the next thing.
I'm like, I'm still like, I'm inbuild mode till like the second
that I sign off and I took 18 months off and I, I just kept
extending and I was like, you know what, don't even don't even
care. Like there's like not even a bit
of me that felt like logging in or like being connected.

(18:08):
And I, and I think that twins and pandemic piled together was
like the a strong enough combination for me who was quite
connected to like make sure thatI did not let myself stay
tethered to something throughoutthat experience.

(18:28):
And I think by the time I was done and going back, I was like,
oh, I can take the parts that I want back and I can leave my bad
habits or my, you know, my just like knee jerk reactions to how
things are done or how I show upin meetings or how I show up for

(18:49):
the work or the type of leader or person or teammate I am.
I can, I can be in so much more choice now because I'm like very
new and fresh. I'm like a newbie, you know.
So I think that part really was that was the journey I needed to
be on. Wow, what's an example of what
you left behind? Oh my gosh.

(19:11):
I mean a very like tangible is just like meetings in the
evenings when like I'm working on Eastern and people are
working in PST, like of course I'll be on everything.
But like like day one, I was like, I will not set a recurring
meeting during that time. If it is like urgent with the
CEO, I will make it. I will make myself available but

(19:32):
like no recurring and that's OK.I will make myself available
for. You I will certainly priority
you're not scenario, but like, you know, for the most part,
it's so easy to like I I feel like it's like those recurring
pieces that like when you lock yourself into something and then
suddenly you're like, oh, I've committed to all these things

(19:53):
that aren't like 1 offs. They're all like suddenly the
foundation of my everyday or my every week.
And like those are the pieces that I'm like, oh man, I can't,
I can't do that. I can't do that to myself.
I got to have a little bit more like check and balance for
myself to actually say yes to each thing that happens that
like. Sort of goes over my my

(20:14):
boundary. Like, I want to create a
scenario that like I can actually be in a conversation
each time rather than just like have said yes to a slew of six
months or a year of like team check-ins at 7:00 PM for me or
something when I'm trying to saygoodnight to my kids.
That's such a good point. The recurring, it's such a
tangible example, but like it has a bigger, there's like a

(20:37):
bigger story to it where there'sthese recurring things that
you're saying yes to and it doesn't have to just be a leave
that allows you to reevaluate everything.
Actually, it was just working with a client.
If you Oh my gosh, a few months ago now and we had a she was
gifted a free session. You wanna session that I was
giving away and we had 45 minutes and it was one of those

(20:58):
moments where I was like, God, hey, This is why I love what I
do. But but B was such a fun
experiment of OK, she had been back to work after maternity
leave for a while and she was like things are not working like
I am at dance class with my daughter.
I have my laptop open. She wants me to watch or dance
class didn't happen. She didn't want to go in boom

(21:19):
that hour I was supposed to be working didn't have it.
Blah. When we got really, we were like
peeling back talk about onion layers, Like we're peeling back
the onion layers. And as it turned out, she had
all these recurring meetings scattered throughout the week
because it was just like, oh, this team says come join this
one. This team says join this one.
OK, we need to make another one.And you arbitrarily create these
recurring meetings or it could be recurring patterns, habits.

(21:43):
Like you talked about habits. And all of a sudden she was
like, I'm in meetings all day, every day.
I have no time to do the work. So now I'm doing the work
outside of hours and I have a daughter and a son.
And it was so cool because by the end of it, she was like, we
basically came up with a solution.
She came up with a solution, of course.
And she was like, OK, I'm going to talk to my dad partner and
I'm going to talk to her about having a no meetings day.

(22:05):
The two of us, we are going to set that boundary.
We're going to communicate it, explain the why.
And she did it. She did it.
The next we talked, she messagedme the next week, she did it.
She said her dad partner was so pumped about it.
She wasn't sure how she would respond.
And she was like, this has just given me my evenings, my
mornings. And it's like such a great
example of stepping back for a SEC and being like, huh, is this

(22:28):
the way we should be doing this?Is this the way that I should be
or have to be working? And most of the time, this
happens all the time with clients.
Most of the time, nobody cares. The people were like, it kind of
gave me the vibe of like, the people on her team were like,
yeah, cool, whatever we'd like. Great.
Totally. Oh my gosh.
I'm 100 percent, 100%. We we make things mean a lot

(22:50):
more often, or I know I do, where I'm like, oh, it's going
to be such a big deal if I say this or do you know, and you're
like, actually no one cares. Yeah, that's fine.
Yeah, going to be fine. We have so much we're going to
cover. We I really want to get into
some of the tips you have aroundkind of reevaluating things or
just like even being at work andhow do you make work work when

(23:11):
you've got kids all that. But I also want to know, like
giving you were you were at Lululemon with twins at home for
a good Well, you said two years.Yeah, like a good amount of
time. How did you personally, like,
tell me what that experience waslike?
What is it like? What was it like to go back and
to be a mum with two little onesat home a year and a half still

(23:32):
so little? How did you, Oh my God, how do
you even? How did you do it for two years?
It's a great question. You know, I think a couple
things come up for me. I think I am a person who is
very logistics oriented and you know, like I kind of live and

(23:55):
die by my calendar in some ways.And so I'm kind of the person
that's like, OK, if I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I'm
going to spend 6 hours sharpening the axe to do that.
Like I'm that's like my. I'm just hacking.
I'm hacking it. It's not working.

(24:15):
I'm still love that. I love that.
Back Oh my God, no. And that is so good because you
know, it's kind of like one of those things where you're like,
I could do it one way I could doit another way I could do it
another way. And I like like to be like, OK,
wait, there's a formula for thisor like there's a way that I can
like set myself up. And so I think I, you know, for
me, I like naturally created a few systems for myself or same

(24:39):
with that idea of like no recurring meetings or, you know,
starting to choose like, OK, I'mgoing to create meals that have
leftovers or like plan this day where I'm going to do whatever
like of the like before or afterschool sort of pieces.
And I was working remote. So it allowed me for a little
bit of like, you know, the second that I'm done work, I'm
not like walking through an office.

(25:00):
I'm like, OK, I'm open for grab the leg and I go to pick up or
whatnot. But I think more broadly, like
returning to work, I, I had sortof two big pieces that were
really coming up for me that I hadn't experienced before as a
bit of like a paradigm shift, I guess.
And one of them was that I, I, Ihad suddenly this like new part

(25:26):
of my life and this new thing tothink about and I in my work
now. And like, I, it took me awhile
to be able to like, really labelit like this or like describe it
like this. But it's not necessarily that
becoming a working parent is more work than other people in
the room, right? Like, it's not about that.
It's that I had more than I had before.

(25:49):
And like that distinction of like, I, my job on paper was the
same and I had my circumstances change and that's what made it
hard for me, you know. And so like, that was like a bit
of a paradigm shift where like Iwas like, this is hard for me to
balance it all. And I, and I could do it, you

(26:11):
know, like I was able to like extend myself in ways that were
hard or challenging and noticinga lot of those things about,
about myself and how I would like, you know, where you're
going to rush or where you're going to like panic about things
or like what you're going to do when the sick call comes in And
you have to like have the nap timed perfectly with the CEO

(26:32):
call, right? Like all those pieces are like
all new. And I think that experience for
me, being someone who had been at this company and in this
organization for so long, and I was like, this is hard,
challenging and kind of like allhappening behind the scenes for
me. Like this is this is not, this

(26:54):
is not going well for anybody else.
And like not just within my organization, but like suddenly,
like the conversations with my closest friends and with, you
know, so many other people, it, you know, became so clear that
like this is not just a me thing.
This is not just like me findingit hard and parenthood being
perfect. It's like, no, no, no, like this

(27:15):
is a this is a work challenge. This is a logistics challenge.
This is something that is just it's all figure out table.
It is. And at the same time, a lot of
things have to happen in order to be able to figure it out.
So yeah, all of that was just, yeah, I don't know if that's how
I made it through, but I think those are all like just

(27:36):
learnings and like just Bahamas and like awareness shifts that
allowed me to start to like uncover what that shift meant
for me and sort of means more. Broadly, And I think you bring
up a really good point about being in an organization where
you had so much, what's the word, clout.
Institutional. Knowledge, institutional

(27:58):
respect, like you had built up areputation for yourself.
I'm sure you had just a network of people really cheering behind
you and supporting you in any way that they possibly could.
And you still found it challenging.
And I really resonate with that When I went back to work myself
and I had a wonderful team, a wonderful boss who I cried with

(28:18):
when I resigned and I was like, I felt the same.
I was like, and if this is how Ifelt and I love a spreadsheet
and even though yes, I'm going to start hacking the account,
but it it's great. It's, I don't know, it's just,
it's unbelievable that the majority of people maybe even
felt worse. And I didn't feel good and there

(28:40):
was a lot of people who probablyfelt worse, which made my
heartbreak. So how does that transition into
human food? Tell us about human food,
because then we can get into kind of the three areas that
we're going to touch on today onlike how you can make work work
for you. Yeah, totally.
So the other piece that started to sort of snowball once I

(29:02):
returned to work that I had the opportunity to do internal
coaching and then also some sortof parent specific coaching.
So I think at the same time thatI was experiencing, you know,
these this new shift and then myfriends are experiencing this
new shift. And, you know, more broadly, I'm
working towards, you know, impact work and like considering

(29:23):
at a really macro level, like well-being at work and
well-being during the pandemic and like remote and all these
pieces that are all kind of happening at once.
And then also having these, likeincredible people that, you
know, I was able to support through through coaching.
And so I had like a lot of firsthand or second hand experiences

(29:45):
within this really particular point in time.
And again, I had kind of always held this like, I'm an
entrepreneur. I I love figuring out new
things. I love trying new things.
And I really want to design towards like what I dream, you
know, like what, what, what could be and all of that, like
really gets me going. So I yeah, it really started as

(30:07):
like, OK, what could I, what could Ioffer like?
Could I be a coach? Could I step into this lane of
being a, a parent coach? Could I step into more like
workshops and a Catholic kind ofswitching between like work that
was individual and like 1:00 to 1:00 and then work that was more
like changing the system, you know, and I and I think like I

(30:30):
oscillate and have for the past few years, like really spent a
lot of time considering because I think what makes this work and
what has made it so like intriguing to me every day to
like chip away at this sort of problem or like challenge of
well-being and work at the same time.
Is, is really that it's like it's, it's never ending, it's

(30:54):
always changing and it's really,really important.
And so, yeah, all of that kind of combined.
And like, as I sort of figured out, like, oh, the last thing I
was going to say about that was that it's, it's something that
involves both sides. So like it is something that is
an individual situation. Like we hold a lot of power and
also the systems and the organizations hold a lot of

(31:16):
power. So it, I always sort of knew
that I wanted to be able to speak to both and hold both at
the same time in the same breathand really integrate this
approach because I certainly, you know, I'm a parent to twins
and in a pandemic, I'm like, I don't have a normal experience
to like, say like I'm a parent expert because I'm not a

(31:37):
parenting guru and I don't aim to be.
I don't have those answers. But what I do like, think about
all day long is like how people relate together and how we
approach and relate to work itself in order to like make
that work. Because we work for a really
long time, we work a. Lot we work a.
Lot many years of our lives are spent working most of our days.

(31:59):
So yeah, shifting into human head I I just had that ability
to like go deep into the logistics of what I would plan
this into and I and I really landed on creating courses as
sort of a jumping off point and a lot of this work.
I really felt like I, I needed to kind of get out like I
sometimes call it like my magnumopus or whatever.

(32:20):
Like, I really like had this like, OK, I actually have to
just like write this down and write this script.
And so I created a course calledbecoming a new working parent,
filmed the video course like learned everything I would need
to create this like 4 hour long modular sort of direct to
consumer course. And then a second one called

(32:41):
working well for parents, which I finally launched literally
last week. And so it's thank you, thank
you. And so now kind of shifting into
like what the work does. It's all just centred around
employee well-being, employee engagement and transforming the
world of work and well-being in that same sentence.

(33:04):
So I, I am shifting into a lot of like workshop design and
pieces like that to just bring the conversation together in the
workplace. And and yeah, I'm having a lot
of fun doing it so. Yeah, so beautiful.
When we chatted, you had this snazzy 3 part, I don't know,

(33:24):
system, framework, whatever you call it.
And I was so drawn to that. And I know people listening,
they're doing dishes or they're buzzing about doing chores, what
errands, whatever. And so it's really nice to like
get a framework. And so you talked about
self-awareness, coping with stress, and relational
intelligence as being kind of three pinnacles that you believe

(33:46):
are really important in this topic of work and working
parents. Can you let's, let's get into
it, Let's start #1 would you start with self-awareness?
Is there an order to this? OK.
Oh yeah, OK. Yeah, I mean, I would start with
self-awareness, but even before that, I will say that something
I always like to sort of name is, is the like pressure and

(34:12):
sort of idea of like pressure and stress being something that
is different in this time of life of like being working and
parenting at the same time. Like I think if, you know,
pressure isn't a bad thing. Pressure is just a thing, right?
It's like a force pushing in on something else and like that can
be challenging, it can be hard, it can be a lot of other things

(34:34):
that it leads into and it can lead into stress.
And I think that like particulartype of pressure, which in this
like working well, this second course we call working parent
pressure. It's like a really particular
thing where again, it's like a different pressure than I had
experienced before and it has really high stakes.
And so like when we sort of shift into this idea of like, So

(34:56):
what do you do when you're in this pressure and you're
experiencing it? How do you really equip yourself
to get out of it? And I think when it comes down
to these different pieces of building resilience so that you
can, you can ride with it. You can like see the pressure,
experience the pressure, go through the pressure and it's
not going to carry you down. It's not going to stop you in

(35:18):
your tracks. It's and every time we can build
that sort of resilience muscle to say, OK, I've done this
before. I actually know what I would do
in this scenario or like, oh, I thought about this already or
I've prepared myself. I'm not going to get stepped up
and these are some sort of our three categories to be able to
move forward powerfully and justice recognize what those

(35:40):
those are so. I think that's really important
to call out the type of the typeof stress.
And I think when people are like, oh, that's a funny, nice,
you've got like career coaching for working parents.
And I'm like, yes, it is funny. It is extremely niche.
However, it is so important because it's a very particular
that I've never actually put it that way, but it's a very

(36:00):
particular type of pressure, stress, whatever you want to
call it that a working parent isexperiencing.
And it requires a different level of empathy.
Like I'm on TikTok sometimes andlike I would say that the 22
year old who's like giving Wellness advice doesn't relate
to me because they're like, you really need 9 uninterrupted
hours of sleep. And I'm like, yeah, and that

(36:23):
might be the goal. Love that from you might not be
a reality, right. So it's like.
Vacation maybe? I don't.
Know. Maybe it's getting easier now,
but you know what I mean? It's like, I love that you're
doing this week this type of because sure, working well at
work or like being healthy and well at work in general is a
beautiful concept and I wish that for everybody.

(36:46):
However, there's a very particular type of pressure that
a working parent faces. And to say to that, to say to
that parent, remove the pressures and remove the stress
because it's going to cause inflammation and chronic stress
and it's going to kill you eventually.
You're like, I'm not going to remove my children.
So what else you got? And so I think it's so unreal
what you're doing because you'regoing to meet the person, I

(37:08):
assume. I haven't seen the back end of
the course, but I assume you're meeting the person where they're
at. And you're saying this pressure
is, yes, creating it has the ability to create diamonds,
which is like a beautiful family, beautiful life, if
that's what you're wanting. But it also, yeah, like too much
of anything's not great. And so how can you work with
that? Like you're working with the
pressure and I assume you're moving it around versus being

(37:29):
like just eliminated all like, how do you do that?
How do you do? How do you do that?
And also like life, you can't stop it.
Like we can't stop the moving train that we're on.
So like no one is out here to live with a perfect undisturbed
experience. It's like no, things are going
to be go up and down. And the stronger we can be at

(37:51):
responding to the challenges like, great, let's keep going,
see where we can take this. Thing, OK, so if we're starting
with coping with stress pressure, what's the question
that one should be asking themselves or asking you?
So I'll start back to self-awareness now.
We're going to. Love this.

(38:11):
We're going back to self, we're going to self-awareness because
I think, you know, the main notewithin self-awareness is really
what do I want this to look likeor what do I want to be
different? Because again, when you have
this like response of having stress and being like everything
that you just said, especially chronic stress where it's like
it's, there's no end insight. Your kid is 2 or like you're,

(38:34):
you're like, OK, it's going to be like this forever.
And also your career is very long and it's especially for
most of us in this like child, child, children years, like
you're just having so much happened at once that of course
you're going to have this momentof like, OK, this is a lot.
And so that self-awareness is, is being able to say, what do I

(38:56):
specifically want to be different so that we're not
like, I'd say reacting with a bit of a like catastrophizing
length of like, everything needsto change and everything is
wrong or like, oh, let's let this black cloud come with me.
And those are examples that are coming from me.

(39:18):
Those are my experiences and my examples.
I would not say that that's likeeveryone is having an experience
that I'm having. But I think what I really saw in
those like first few months and the first few years even is
like, I wanted something to be different.
And that is what I could say. It was like something is going
is not right with this my well-being.

(39:40):
Like I can't function well within my home life or my work
life or I can't feel good because I can't, I'm stretched
too thin. So like something needs to be
different. And so when it comes to
self-awareness, it's really being able to say like, OK, what
is it that I need to be different?
And it's a powerful step. Like it's really like one of

(40:01):
those things. Like how much time we spend in
sort of designing into our goalsor designing into our career.
But like being able to stop and say like, OK, specifically at
this juncture or like at this next three months or six months,
what is the thing that if that changed, I could regain that
sense of well-being. So I could connect back into

(40:23):
feeling good, I could function better.
I could have that like even 1% improvement.
So there is such a level of self-awareness required that a
lot of like the pieces within the course or the pieces and
like the, the work is really hones in on like, OK, So what
are the tools and pieces that can allow us to be in inquiry
with OK, what do I want? What would that look like?

(40:44):
What do I want to be different? And I I kind of picture it like
the tip of an iceberg. Is that kind of what you?
Yeah. Is, is that kind of like how you
coach people through that? Like you, you look at the
symptom like if you're going to the doctor and you're like, I've
got this rash, often it's not the rash is not just a rash,
right? Like it could be a symptom of
something else that's happening.And so is that, is that we're

(41:06):
kind of where you go with it, where it's like, OK, like you
get like 1 symptom. Like what I want to be different
is I want to be less tired. And then you have to go down
from there. Like what's below that and then
what's below that and then what's below that?
Like how do you how do you work through that?
Yeah, so I mean, that's a reallygood example in metaphor.
I don't have that specifically. I'm like, yes, that is a perfect

(41:27):
one. But I think just that the the
like broader like nature of the exercise of exercise of there's
a million different ways that wecan tap into self-awareness of
like asking ourselves those questions of like, OK, what
specifically would be different?Or how do I even like assess how
would I rate these different parts of my life?
Or what does it look like when things are off so that I can see
is this off? You know, so like there's all

(41:49):
sorts. I honestly, I think that there's
like an A million different tools that could be used for
this. And I think the most simple 1 is
just like you said, it's like asking why five times, like
asking the question, like, OK, what about this?
What about this? And being able to say like, OK,
and I'll give an example like wewere kind of playing with before
around the, you know, recurring meetings, right?

(42:11):
Like if you're like, OK, what's stressing me out is that I
always have meetings in the evenings and I don't want to
have meetings conflict with bedtime.
OK, Well, once you are able to identify like, OK, I don't want
evening meetings or like maybe it even starts broader than
that. I'd say for most people it's
like my work schedule is too much, work is overwhelming.
Right. And you're like, OK, work is

(42:32):
overwhelming you. Then what?
Like what part of your work is overwhelming you?
Is it the type of work? Is it the like that your boss?
Is it a person? Is it, is it a schedule piece to
like being able to sort of teaseapart any scenario?
I think is like a really major skill that I think a lot of
people, again, like all your clients, like it's so amazing to
be able to work one-on-one with the coach.

(42:53):
And I think what's sort of shifted into the human food side
is that like, it's more of a like, what's the like workshop
to like lead you through thinking so that you have like
sort of private time and space to work through that on your
own? Because for me, I think one of
the pieces that really resonatedwas like, I didn't have a lot of
time. And I also found like, even to

(43:14):
like find time to fit in a therapist or something.
I'm like that scheduling is like, throw another one on the
list. Like I got another piece I need
to work through now I need to schedule that thing added to my
mental load list or my laundry list of home things.
So like, I feel like there's something in, you know, the most
simple but meaningful adjustments or assessments or

(43:37):
reflections or tools that allow us to say like, OK, what are 5
tools that can allow me to assess and see myself and my
scenario clearly for what it is?And that's sort of
self-awareness. Yes, I love that one.
OK, Coping with stress. So we're aware and we're making
the small changes like we're making like I would call that

(43:59):
the low hanging fruit it kind ofsounds like, but there's still
stressors coming in that you're kind of like batting away
constantly. Like you brought up the example
of the kid gets sent home sick, it's going to happen.
So what's gonna happen? Parents are especially
vulnerable to this What? How do you how do you move

(44:19):
through that? You know, there's, I would say
when it comes to coping with stress, a lot of it is like
having as much as you can like sort of broad strokes of like,
what are the things that send meinto stress?
Because like once you know, like, OK, some there is stress,
something is stressful to me or like what part of it do I need

(44:40):
to solve for? But like things are still going
to come up. So like having that like bit of
a like lay of the land of like, OK, I am equipped to cope with
this thing because I can kind ofsay like the stressor is coming
from something and also being able to recognize for yourself,
like when stress happens, what am I going to, what do I, what
do I am going to do about that? Like, because again, I, you

(45:03):
know, when it comes to resilience more broadly, like
things go wrong, wrong, right orwrong, whatever.
But like things go off the rails, things challenges come.
Like you're always going to be experiencing some sort of
working parent pressure iteration, right?
And so being able to have those tools in your pocket of like,

(45:24):
OK, as an example, like doing like a self check in of like OK,
hand or head heart hand and helpas an example.
So there's like that moment of like, OK, I know if I'm feeling
overwhelmed and stressed and I actually have no idea what I
want to do and I'm kind of freaking out about work, OK, So
what's the ability to say, OK, head, Like what?

(45:44):
What am I thinking right now? Like where's my head at?
Like how am I? And then checking in with your
heart, like, OK, what am I really feeling right now?
And and heart, hand and heart. Hand one.
Going to be hand, hand is like, what action do you need to take?
Like what do I need to do next? And then help.

(46:05):
Who do I need to go to for help?Who can I ask for help?
Where can I find help? And like a very simple like 4H
like that allows you to say, like, OK, I can process the
moment that I'm in or the stressthat is being experienced or the
pressure I'm feeling right now so that I can change what I need
to change and move forward with how I need to move forward.

(46:28):
So again, that like coping with stress is really like resilience
building. It's really ties in deeply with
awareness and then also allows you to say like, OK, before I
can even say this is what I needdifferently.
Like we, we kind of need to process at a certain point of
like how do I prepare myself foreven getting into the next the

(46:50):
third, which is relation, relational intelligence, which
starts to step into the other, which I'll get into a SEC.
But like it being able to like take it from self and then like
get yourself ready, I think involves a lot of like
resilience. It's a beat.
It's a moment to say like, OK, I've actually sort of triaged

(47:10):
and then I can go from there. I think that's beautiful and
you're kind of making me think of my own.
Obviously, I'm relating this to my myself, my own experiences.
I would say 80% of the shit thatI'm thinking and stressing about
is not new. Yeah.
My stressor. 100% my. Triggers, whatever the hell you

(47:32):
want to call it. Yeah, they are the same things
that I have been working on since I was younger and now and
I think, you know, into like mid30s, officially almost mid mid
mid 30s. I'm like, why do some things
feel easier now? And I'm like, Oh yeah, I have
the tools and have strategies when I know that thing comes up

(47:52):
and I know that one trigger, that one stressor comes up for
me. This is how I navigate it now.
And you don't feel so blindsided.
And yeah, when you don't even look internally and be like,
huh, that's interesting. That's something that comes up
for me a lot. And when you're not doing that
reflection, it keeps coming up and you continue to be
blindsided. Like, that's when it's like, OK,
this is something's got to change.

(48:12):
And sometimes it could be a partner that calls it out and
then you just want to smack him in the face because it's never
fun to have somebody else or youdon't know and you're like.
Yeah. How did I miss that one?
Now on the partner front. Yeah.
What tips do you have just from your own experience here from
this work that you do with like managing stressors when it comes

(48:35):
to parenting and working, but also having a partner in the mix
like and managing, managing stressors with one another and
for one another. You know, like how does that,
how does a partner come into themix in this?
Oh my gosh. I mean, OK, a couple of just two

(48:56):
initial thoughts. 1 is that I have an exercise in the first
course, but this is just making me think of where a lot I'd say.
And again, this is comes from this lens of being like very
logistical and being like sort of methodical in my thinking.
And there there's a bit of a like, I think intentionality

(49:20):
required of how you work together with your partner that
might not have been required before.
Again, like you beforehand, you can just kind of coast, you can
kind of like live your your lifeand be too independent people or
be two people that shift together or like make
concessions. And then suddenly again, the

(49:41):
pressures have changed. And so you're working with a new
relationship than you were before.
And so there's something I'd sayimportant for me that is about
like actually clarifying sort ofwhat are the things that I am
thinking of or holding or that are new to me.

(50:02):
Because, you know, I think when I hold this like idea of
becoming a working parent as like this is a new role.
This is a new role in the same way that like getting a new job
and a new role at work is. And you'd never, like start a
new job without like looking at the job description and taking a
beat to be like, what am I responsible for?

(50:23):
And so like that same sort of lens of like, what am I
responsible for? I, I think it requires a bit of
like, you know, what am I responsible for?
What are you responsible for? For sure.
But I think it also requires like listing out what
responsibilities there are because like there's part of it
that's like, you know, starting.And I think that's like the way

(50:44):
that I approach like leadership and business strategy in a lot
of ways is like, OK, what, what's the big, what are we
working towards? What are the big goals?
Like what are the priorities andwhat are our resources?
And then being able to like break it down a bit more like a
like a like a business decision in that say that isn't the same
as saying like, OK, I'm going totake this, you're going to take
that. It's like, what's going on here?

(51:04):
Like what do we got going on as like a team?
And I think that that, you know,that and also like couples
therapy as required. But like, you know, like that,
that I think is like a stepping stone for me to be able to say
like, OK, when I'm considering my like group of working parents

(51:25):
or like my this community or this like work within human food
is like people who are working and they're also trying to be
well at the same time. Like it requires a bit of like,
OK, let's like strategize that and, and do that in a way that
like feels right but also gets us where we're where we want to
go. Yeah.
I think that's awesome. And there's such a unique,

(51:46):
there's a uniqueness in being the birthing parent.
And I have so much love for the people I work with does that I
work with or the father figures.You know, it's like there's
because I think there's what I was kind of hearing that too is
like a respect for the fact thatyou're both taking on new roles.
Absolutely. And two different roles, not

(52:07):
really based on gender. I mean the gender that's a whole
other conversation, but it's like it's more just you're two
different people. A partnership doesn't matter if
my mom, dad, dad, whatever mom, dad, it's like 2 humans bringing
two different experiences, 2 personalities, 2 work contexts.
You, I know you and your husbandhave different work contexts and
bringing that to the table and then you put each putting on

(52:29):
this new hat and your parent. It's just, it's so interesting
in the very, it creates additional variables and it's
like. It really.
It's what to the power of like 4because there's like now you
have two kids, there's two of you.
So it's like, whoa, totally so many.
Let's see like the branches and like that old math class.
So it's a lot. It's a lot.
So this actually maybe has a good segue into relational

(52:51):
intelligence. First of all, what does that
mean? What does?
That mean? OK, I'd say most simply
relational intelligence is just like seeing how you work and
relate with others and like how you connect with other people,
how you like, work with and relate to them.
It can be with other things, like with work culture more
broadly, I'd say. Like how we relate to work

(53:12):
culture is like a whole interesting other podcasts work.
Culture change. You know, but I think when it
comes to this work, it's really like I, I invite people, new
parents, any person, honestly, any person that is an employee
and has a person that they are, they're, you know, accountable

(53:33):
for the work within with that person.
Like we'll call them a manager, but it's not always like your
direct manager could be different seats or whatever.
But like you and your manager, like there's a difference
between, you know, your manager sitting on one side of the table
and you sitting on the other side across and you're kind of
presenting you that your side and they're presenting their
side. There's like a combativeness,
there's like a push and Paul, it's a me versus you.

(53:57):
It's like a, you're holding likea bit of a like you're holding
your cards close to you. There's like a privacy of like,
OK, I got to like in in secret, prepare my this to to you.
And there's like that like back and forth, like power,
inequality, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah can go on forever.
And I think what I my like broadest goal within like

(54:17):
transforming while being at workis is to really encourage and,
and identify and name that. Like if you're sitting across
from someone that is, that's, that's not it.
It's sitting next to each other and looking together at the same
thing. You're different people in
different roles with different resources, with different

(54:38):
priorities. There's a lot the same, but
there's also a lot different. We're all different humans and
people. And if we can sit together
dynamics, there's so much that starts to come into play that
like you'll and I would get sucked into without the ability
to say, OK, I can actually consider what I want to shift

(54:59):
and how I would want to, you know, make those requests or
work in collaboration in a different way to ask for what I
need for this period of time. I like that a lot and getting I
think there's there's a lot of power in getting getting the
process started before heading to that conversation like that's
getting this is getting super tactical.
But I do believe that there's, there's a lot to that instead of

(55:20):
coming just it's cliche, but don't just come with the
problem. Yeah, think, think it through a
bit. But I think the thinking is we
we say that, but then people arelike about how, how do I come
forward with the solution without coming up with the full
solution? It's like you're not coming to
the table with the solution. You're coming together to the
table with self-awareness. Like be really clear about what

(55:40):
you're desiring, what's going on, how it relates to the
business and always thinking about the person across from
you. OK, How does this relate to
them? Is this in conflict with their
objectives of what they're trying to achieve on this team
of the well-being of their job security, Right?
So it's like, you can't be coming with and saying like, I
need this and the person's like,I can't give you that.
Like you're going to, you're going to hit a stalemate, right?

(56:03):
But what I want to ask you is the thing that comes up all the
time, whether you're at a cocktail party, you're in a
coaching session, it's when there's no trust, when the trust
has dissolved, whatever was there is broken between said
manager, authority figure and the employee.
And we're speaking to the podcast listeners right now who

(56:24):
are like, I'm not and I want to flip the table because of this
one person. What have you got for us?
What can that person do with regards to relational
intelligence in this situation? And OK, here's the here's the
example. They love their job, they love
the company, they love their team.
They cannot stand this person and they don't feel safe.

(56:47):
Go. Oh my gosh, OK, this is a great.
I mean, this is so real. And I think that's like the most
important part about this is that it is so real.
And I think, you know, I named this this work, this company
human hood for a reason, becauseit always really comes down to
the humanity within each person,right?
Like we are just a person and another person on our journey

(57:10):
trying to get where we're going,right?
So I think the one sort of like something like a quote or like a
tagline, but like this idea thatauthenticity begets
authenticity. So like when you are authentic,
you will get authenticity back. And that doesn't mean that
you're going to like get what you always like the same level.

(57:32):
You're not necessarily going to like be in a perfect
conversation just because you, you kind of made your, you know,
most honest request. But I think that there is a way
to design relationships with intention and it starts with
authenticity. And so I think that there's I'd

(57:54):
say the like two or three sort of notes on this is that number
one, it's being able to say likethis, this relationship requires
designed trust. It's not already there.
Like it's not like an underlyingthing that exists right now.
So like, if you want there to betrust there, you actually have
to put it there, like you have to design it and, and make it

(58:16):
occur. And so I think that that like
level of intentionality around it is like, oh, OK, now I
actually have a role that I can play in this.
Because if you don't, if you, you know, I'd say within a work
context, like like you said, like you love your tea, you love
your work and you have like a blockage with a really specific
person. Like there is a moment of being

(58:39):
able to say like, OK, I actuallyneed something to change with
the relationship. And I think it's a, a different,
you know, part of the conversation is like, um, what
do you need from them is like a sort of a follow up to all of
this would be like, you need therelationship to be different.
But also like then specifically as you get into it, like, OK, So
what do you need from that person on an ongoing basis or in

(59:00):
that moment to unlock more productivity or unlock being
able to work together. But I think in designing trust,
specifically going in with authenticity and within that,
with that framework in mind of like, I want something to be
different in how we work together.
And being able to like, say, that is, I'd say like light

(59:22):
years different than the norm oflike the default of what will
occur with a relationship. And being able to actually like
create a moment with someone where you can kind of like drain
the water. If we're like all in water, like
we were talking about before, like being able to like actually
like, just like eliminate the like elephant in the room to be

(59:44):
able to say like something has to be different.
And I want to get there with you.
And I think another part of thisreally specific to sort of this
like working parent pressure andthis unique side of pressure is
being able to say a lot has changed in my life in a X period
of time because I think often within this.

(01:00:05):
Context and probably within yourclients context is like we're
dealing with this within we are in the aftershocks of, you know,
parent early parenthood of, of having a new kid and having a
new baby. And like, you know, my kids are
5. So like I'm in the aftershocks
still, but like, you know, and being able to say like, OK, like
if there if this is a pressure that's occurring and I think it

(01:00:28):
can be within whatever time frame makes sense.
And again, like this is all relevant for any person, which I
think always just comes up. All of this work is like
anything relatable to this moment is like also a tool that
can be used for anybody at any point in time who's balancing
while being at work. But like being able to then say,
like some, a lot has changed forme.

(01:00:49):
I, I want to share that with you.
And then being able to also say,OK, like turn the tables, like
what's going on for you or like,how is this occurring for you?
Because like there's the abilityto actually like name the thing
and then sort of share your sideand also really be committed to
listening and taking in their side is like, again, none of

(01:01:12):
that is rocket science. None of that is like new.
But like energetically there is a relational intelligence
involved that's like, can you notice when it's time to design
trust? Can you notice when trust is
missing? Can you notice or identify or
clarify? Like, oh, this is the impact of
trust being non existent or being really stretched thin or

(01:01:35):
being like not consistent enoughthat I can work with it.
And then being able to say like,OK, the solution is how we work
together. And so there's so much there
that, you know, I could go on all day.
But like, I think when it comes to relational intelligence, it's
like the awareness of like we are working together on
something. And how do we, how do we create
a moment or a meeting or a like really as simple as like a

(01:01:58):
moment in time as part of our days that we actually just look
at this together, this being notlike the latest deliverable or
like the violin or like the thing we're working on.
Like let's look at this deck like no, no, the thing we're
looking at right now is how we work.
And let's just talk about that for a short amount of time,
right? And like, if that can really
unlock how we work, then the like impact is massive.

(01:02:22):
So I think especially within this time frame of being a new
working parent or being someone who's, you know, holding and
integrating both parts of their lives, your career minded,
you're also a parent. Like it's just a time where that
pressure can lead to more thingsthan you had before to then say
to someone else, like, I am holding a lot of things that I,
I wasn't before. I'm changed, I'm a little bit

(01:02:43):
different and that's why it's not working anymore.
So like, let's, let's get into that.
What's changed for you in that amount of time?
What's what's different here? So anyway.
It's a great opportunity. Again, it's like the we get kind
of wrapped up in talking about the negative side and the
pressures that are added. And I don't think that's what
we're doing in this conversation, but we're talking

(01:03:05):
about the realities of the pressures that are added.
But what I think we've also explored in this conversation is
the beautiful moments of pause that this gives.
And it's almost like an excuse to recalibrate everything.
It's an excuse to look at your recurring meetings.
It's a great excuse to come backto the manager who you never
liked, who was always a Dick to.You and say 100%.

(01:03:25):
Hey, I'm different even though you're like, this is the same
thing. Like we've always had these
issues, but it's like, hey, I'm feeling different.
I'm really excited to like reinvigorate how we work to get
like it can be a positive thing.Always talk about that like you
can say two things the exact same words in two different
ways, just with the way and the presence that you're bringing
and the energy and the tone of voice even.

(01:03:48):
And so I think I, I love that and I love the just visual of
sitting on the on the same side of the table and looking at this
as like outside of each of you so that it doesn't feel like
this attack. It's like a little an
opportunity that you're both working on together, which I
think is such a nice, such a nice visual, such a nice way of
putting it. Yeah.
OK. Sarah, what is something that

(01:04:09):
you personally are still trying to figure out?
I asked this to all my guests inthe moment right now.
What, what comes to my gosh, Oh my God, in this moment right
now, I'm really, I, I'd say the one thing I'm really trying to
figure out is bringing this workto light and sort of marketing

(01:04:30):
it and explaining it because it is deep.
And that I think is so motivating and fun and
interesting and also challenging.
So I'm trying to figure out how to how do you like change the
world and explain how this work changes the world.
So beautiful. Well, it truly is.

(01:04:52):
It is so it is so cool. It's been so fun to just dive in
with tangible examples into someof the stuff that we hear about
or you hear the words relationalintelligence and we've learned
about it maybe before you were aparent.
And then it's like, what does this mean for me now and what
does that look like? So thank you so much for for
everything, for sharing your heart and your knowledge.

(01:05:12):
Where can everyone find you? I know people don't want to
reach out. Oh my gosh, on Instagram at
hello human hood spelled like you think human hood and yeah,
www.hellohumanoid.com site LinkedIn I'm everywhere.
Yay Booker for lunch and. Learn they're gonna be.
Yes. And get the.

(01:05:33):
Course we will put all the details as always in the show
notes and we could talk forever.This was so much fun, thank you
so much for coming. Up.
Thank you so much for having me.You're the best.
Thank you. Back at you, back at ya.
Thank you so much for listening.And since you made it this far,

(01:05:53):
please share this episode with afellow parent who you love,
respect, and want to support. And while you're at it, hit me
up on Instagram at All Figured Out.
Andrea, I would love to meet youand hear what you are trying to
figure out these days.