Tenants: Know Your Rights - Heather Hills Apts Case Study

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This episode of All Politics Is Local MD Edition  provides tenants in Maryland with resources they may need if their living conditions are not ideal.  We interview Ms. Charlene Hall, Founder and President of the Heather Hills Tenants' Association in Temple Hill, MD, and Mr. Martin Mitchell, Housing Justice Advocate in Maryland.

Resources:

1.  Charlene Hall, [e-mail], 301-437-3027 or 240-722-5319

2.  Martin Mitchell,  [e-mail], Martin for Laurel

3.  Community Legal Services of Prince George's County, www.clspgc.org, 240-391-6370

4.  Maryland Legal Aid 888-465-2468

5.  CASA, Housing Justice Coalition, wearecasa.org/prince-georges-for-housing-justice, 866-765-CASA

6. NAACP Prince George's Branch, Carletta Lundy, Housing Chair, www.princegeorgesnaacp.org.

7.  Housing Options & Planning Enterprises, Inc. (H.O.P.E.), www.hopefinancial.org, 301-567-3330.

Upcoming Events: 

Rent Stabilization Documentary screening produced by Councilmember, Krystal Oriadha, Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 6:00 p.m., Busboys & Poets, 5331 Baltimore Ave., Hyattsville, MD.

 

Expungement Clinic/Mobile Job Fair/Medical Assistance/Immigration Assistance sponsored by Martin Mitchell, Saturday, October 26, 2024, 10 a.m. - 1 p.m., Laurel Branch Library, 507 Seventh Street, Laurel MD

 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, welcome to another edition of All Politics
is Local with me, your host,tamara Davis-Brown.
Thank you for joining me today.
I'm really excited because thisis, I think, the first podcast
that I am recording, thatsomeone actually reached out to
me and asked to be on thepodcast.

(00:26):
Generally, I solicit my guestson my own, and so I'm so excited
that I have the pleasure andprivilege of introducing Ms
Charlene Hall.
She is a resident of HeatherHills apartment in Temple Hills,
maryland, and she is actuallypresident of the Tenants

(00:50):
Association.
So today we also have joiningMs Hall is Mr Martin Mitchell.
He is a housing justiceadvocate and he is also a member
of the County, prince George'sCounty Council, ritz
Stabilization Work Group.
So today's topic has to do withwhat I would call slumlords,

(01:16):
what I would call irresponsiblelandlords here in Prince
George's County, and we want totalk about landlords here in
Prince George's County and wewant to talk about, specifically
, heather Hill's apartment,where Ms Hall lives, but also
about the conditions of a lot ofapartments here in Prince
George's County that needs to beidentified and corrected and

(01:39):
action taken by our countygovernment as well as state
government, as well as anyonethat has some authority over
landlord, tenants, tenants'rights, rent, rent stabilization
, all of those things.
This has been a hot issueactually for a very long time.

(02:03):
There have been a lot oftenants suffering under poor
living conditions, and thepandemic actually heightened
those concerns and, despite theliving conditions, the rent
continued to escalate, and so Iam delighted that Ms Hall

(02:25):
reached out to me, along with MrMartin Mitchell, and asked to
be on the podcast, and we'redelighted to have them on.
So, first of all, good morning,ms Hall.
How are you today?

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Good morning, Tamara.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
How are you?
I'm great.
I'm great.
Thank you for joining us today.
Mr Mitchell, good morning.
Thank you for joining us aswell, good morning, good morning
.
So we're going to jump right inand let us know who you are and

(03:11):
tell us a little bit about howyou have become the president of
the Tenants Association.
I hear you actually started theTenants Association at Heather
Hill's apartment.
Tell folks where Heather Hillis located all of that good
stuff and just jump right intoyour story.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
My name is Charlene Hall.
I'm originally from WashingtonDC, moved here, been here in
Prince George's County for about30 years, okay, and I've been
here living as a resident atHeather Hills Apartments for
about seven.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
Been here for about seven years, and so I've been
having a lot of um issues in myuh apartment.
A lot of uh floodings, uh leaks, electrical problems,
inoperable appliances, the uhrodents, the birds I have birds
like in the kitchen in my ventvent Mold.

(04:05):
Oh my God, it's just so manythings.
None of my appliances work, youknow, so they just.
I have been complaining aboutmy refrigerator for four since
last year.
Wow, so finally it just theybought one from another unit
because what they do is they,instead of them replacing the,
the um the appliances, they movethem around okay you know, they

(04:28):
just move stuff around wow andso it finally went out on um
august the 9th okay, and soheather hills?

Speaker 1 (04:36):
uh, tell people where heather hills it's in temple
hills, temple hills marylandtemple hills, maryland, off of
fisher road.
Okay, fisher road and WinkleyRight, I know exactly where that
is.
Heather Hills used to be areally nice apartment complex.
Back in the 90s.
I had two really good friends acouple that lived in Heather
Hills and then they moved intotheir first house in Fort

(04:59):
Washington and another couplethat moved actually out of the
county.
They moved to Stafford Virginia.
So I'm really surprised to hearI know that the apartments have
been around for a while, but I'mreally surprised to hear that
they have let that complex godown, because that used to be a
popular complex and a lot ofpeople used to.
I think they even had a waitinglist to get in a long time ago.

(05:23):
So, yes, this was back in the90s.
Now this is.
This was a while ago.
So, yes, I'm really surprised.
So you've been there sevenyears.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
And yeah, donaldson was here when I, when I moved
and it's like it was going to bea pretty nice place to stay.
And it seemed like it was goingto be a pretty nice place to
stay.
I mean, I've even, you know,told other people about the
apartment complex.
A lot of people move here andeverything but I didn't know
that they had a lot of plumbingissues, like I mean, it was like

(06:00):
always water like running downthe hills from all, like we had
a bunch of water Even like ondays that it would get like cold
, the water would freeze.
We've had a tenant to fall, youknow, because of that.
You know water whatever.
But they have major major waterproblems electrical problems,

(06:22):
bats that I mentioned the bats.
One of the tenants tenants, acouple of the tenants have um
bats.
Some of us have birds cominginto our units it's just wow.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
So you said um, I was gonna ask you mentioned
donaldson, is that?
Is that the name?

Speaker 3 (06:41):
who?
Yeah, I came in on Donaldson.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Spell it when.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
I came in.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Donaldson, donaldson, okay, d-o-n-a-l-d-s-o-n.
Okay.
So Donaldson was the owners.
They were just the management,the management company.
Okay, okay.
And so who actually owns theapartments now and who manages
the apartments now?
One Wall.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Communities own this property now, owns the
apartments now, and who managesthe apartments now?
One wall communities on on thisproperty now they were managing
it also okay, but, um, theycouldn't get stuff up.
I mean they just nothing willpass.
So they ended up going out andgetting grady.
Somebody called Grady GradyManagement.
So now Grady Management uh,just started managing on, uh as

(07:29):
of um the 26th of August.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Okay, Okay, so so very recent, very recent, um
you've got they just started,okay, um so when was the first
time?
So you've been there sevenyears.
Did the issues that you'reexperiencing now, did they start
immediately after you moved inor was it over time?

(07:54):
When was when did you start tonotice these poor living
conditions?

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Well, actually it started immediately because,
like when I went in, when I justit was, I was always like um,
with my floors right, I didn'thave carpet, I had like uh, uh
floors down right and they justwould always look like it was
all lumpy like rocks orsomething under okay, and I was
like I'm fleeing like this.

(08:20):
And so, um, then later, youknow, I started having these
problems like with, um, you know, some of the floors coming up.
I almost kind of uh, trippedelbows, flew up the hole or uh,
you know the, uh, the, thelaminated tile or whatever it is
that they were put down.
So come to find out, um, I cometo find out.

(08:43):
The unit was all.
The unit had water issues, theywas having plumbing issues and
I started having like watercoming down from my in my master
bedroom and my hallway.
It would come out.
Come from, just start drippingout from out of the exhaust fan
onto me.
That's the first that I was like, yeah, water.

(09:05):
And then when you put thebucket there, it was coming out
yellow.
And so it was like they justdidn't want to take care of it.
It was like I had to sit therefor like weeks and weeks and
weeks and weeks, before theywould even do anything.
They wouldn't fix nothing.
My floors, you know, beforethey would even do anything,

(09:26):
they wouldn't do, they wouldn'tfix nothing.
My floors, the water, waterwould come and some black stuff
would shoot up out the tubs andthe toilets all onto the floors
and they damaged the floors.
And when they went to pick up myto redo the floors.
It had old towel and stuff thatwas stuck to the floor.
So all they did when they came,when they came to, uh, do the

(09:49):
floors before I moved in, theyjust laid it over top of that
the old floor wow so that's whythe floors were lumpy like they
were so, but what they had to dois they had to come, the
contractors had to come in, takethe floor up and they had to
rebuild it.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
They had to rebuild the floor.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
So I've been having problems with all my appliances,
like right now my dishwasher'snot working, my washer's in the
drive, my door had been kickedin, my patio door still doesn't
work, unsafety.
You know, I've had water comein from the, went from one of my

(10:30):
bedrooms where it started to ummold.
I didn't know I didn't becauseI hardly go in that room, so I
didn't even know that it was abunch of mold that had set, you
know, in the carpet andeverything down the walls and
everything.
They have a lot.
When I tell you a lot of thetenants, our problems are the

(10:52):
mold, I mean mold and um waterplumbing problem okay, we have
that a lot and also with the umthe mice and the rats mice, the
bats and the health departments.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, so that's what I was.
Yeah, you mentioned, so youmentioned the health department.
That's good, I was.
I was going to mention so youbasically, for seven years you
have been dealing with thisissue, years you have been
dealing with this issue, and sowhen did you start the Tenants
Association and what progresshave you made?
Because it seems like you'restill dealing with some of these

(11:31):
issues now.
When did you start the TenantsAssociation here at Heather
Hills?

Speaker 3 (11:38):
In April, April 2024.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Because I met Shawnice.
I met her March the 9th 2024 atEbenezer.
So it was April when I started.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Okay, and so just because I know who Shawnice is
and Mr Mitchell knows whoShawnice is, we should probably
that she's part of the NAACP andyou reached out to her at an
event at.
Was it at?

Speaker 3 (12:09):
Angela.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Osborne and Trump Right.
That was the debate that washeld at Ebenezer AME Church
during the primary.
I believe the primary was inMay and I think we had that.
The primary was in May, I thinkwe had that.
I actually attended that aswell and helped to publicize and
get that debate.

(12:30):
Well, it wasn't really a debate, it was a conversation because
they had Right March, the 9thRight In March Right, and so you
met Miss Shanice during.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Shanice.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Shanice Right During that event and did she give you
some resources to try to startthe Tenants Association?
How did you actually know tostart a Tenants Association and
how to start to advocate foryourself?
I'm proud and glad that youhave spoken out and that you're
speaking out and trying to getthese living conditions

(13:05):
addressed.
But what resources did sheprovide or what resources did
you?
What further resources did youtake to start the Tenants
Association?

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Well, I actually had been.
You know, I started out goingto all the everything they had
where they was trying to run foroffice or something like that.
I was at all of them.
Okay, I was.
I saw Anthony moves, I wasvisiting everybody.
But what she did was she had meto do a timeline Cause she came

(13:37):
to me and she was like well,what's going on?
I said, well, you know, Ididn't know that they were going
to be giving those little cardsand stuff like that.
But what happened was she knewsomeone at Casa, she knew George
at Casa.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
And so she had him to reach out to me and that's when
they came.
They ended up coming over hereto the apartment complex and it
started from there.
Okay, I went around, knocked on459 or 59 units and, um, you
know, asking them to, you know,just to find out if they had the

(14:14):
same, you know similar problemsas as myself.
Okay, and that first meetingwas, it was a lot of people
coming, they had their phonesout.
We met right here and now wehave like about, I'm gonna say
we probably have about because,see, all of them, we have
probably about, I'm gonna sayabout 180 maybe, uh, tenants,

(14:38):
okay, that are that are activein the association

Speaker 1 (14:42):
good, good, good, so, um, so what are your?
What are like, are some of yourprimary goals?
What's the first thing that youwant to get fixed, for example?
What's the second thing youknow?

Speaker 3 (14:55):
give me, give me your top three things that the first
thing, the first thing that wewould like to get fixed here is
the plumbing.
We need the plumbing.
They need to.
And the second thing that wewould want is all the appliances
are outdated.
Right, it's outdated andthey're not only are they

(15:19):
outdated, but I guess, from thembeing so old, they don't work.
None of them are working Right.
So we would want that.
And the third thing that wewould want well, that's what we
want so far and then all therent that they're trying to
charge us for not being licensed, not ever even having a license

(15:42):
, zero account.
They want that to be zero.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Okay, did you guys hold back your rent any, in
other words, not pay your rentso that you can get these
conditions addressed?

Speaker 3 (15:58):
We stopped paying our rent because that was initially
what we had started out to do.
We started not paying the rentbecause of the was initially
what we had started out to do.
We started doing not paying therent because you know of the
condition, right.
But you know, when I starteddoing some little research, I
found out that they didn't havea license at all.
Okay, okay, so no, we don't.
We don't pay no rent, okayright now.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Okay, good, so I'm gonna bring in, because you
mentioned CASA, you mentioned acouple other things.
I'm going to bring in Mr MartinMitchell again.
Mr Mitchell is a former citycouncilman in the city of Laurel
.
He is a housing justiceadvocate and he is on the
county's rent stabilization workgroup which just completed some

(16:43):
work after a bill, a local billhere in Prince George's County
has passed.
Mr Martin, you've heard MsHall's plight over at Heather
Heels.
First of all, how common isthat throughout Prince George's
County have you had other tenantassociations, other apartment

(17:04):
complexes tenants come to you asa housing justice advocate
having similar complaints?

Speaker 2 (17:12):
So I could say that it's a very common thing, and
not just in Prince George's.
I've also, you know, advocatedand help people in Montgomery
County and Howard County.
You know, advocated and helppeople in Montgomery County and
Howard County.
But, you know, one of one ofthe biggest problems you know
that I've really complainedabout is like, how are the

(17:32):
landlords able to increase therent, especially, you know, a
substantial increase, when theyhaven't been able to maintain
the property?
Exactly, you know, and, and sowhat we've seen, even through

(17:58):
the rent stabilization, we'veseen Exactly flat response to a
lot of them was you're nottaking care of the property now.
So you know what, what's thedifference?
What's the difference, you know, because, um, a lot of times,
what what I've seen is theydon't really fix the property
collectively until, you know,something comes down on them,

(18:20):
you know a governmental agency,um, the news, they, they hate
being, you know, questioned inthe news.
And then, when the tenantsstand together, right, when the
tenants stand together, becauseat the end of the day, you know,
the tenants, basically, youknow, pay the mortgage that they
pay, right, they don't justwant to lose a large swath of
tenants.
So when the tenants standtogether, they actually have, uh

(18:41):
, they actually have a voiceright, so so with.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Heather.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
Heels.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
I would venture to say that they have no mortgage.
Like I said, I had friends thatlived in Heather Heels in the
90s and so I know that thatplace is probably paid for it
and all the rent is just pureprofit for them.
So they probably have not.
Probably they do have the moneyand have had the money to make
the improvements that theyneeded.

(19:06):
So how can tenants bandtogether, like Ms Hall and
Heather Heals Apartments havedone, to create a tenant
association?
What resources are out therefor tenants to get the living

(19:28):
conditions that they deserve?
You know they pay rent.
You know rent is not cheap herein the DMV area in Prince
George's.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
County.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Ms Hall, do you have a two?
I was going to ask you becauseyou mentioned a bedroom that you
don't use, so do you have atwo-bedroom apartment?

Speaker 2 (19:46):
at Heather.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Hills.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Three-bedroom, you have a three-bedroom.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Okay, do you mind sharing how?
Much the rent was for thatthree-bedroom.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
The rent is, I would say, $1,900.
$1,900.
Okay, that's how much athree-bedroom is.
To be honest with, just abouteverybody here has a different
amount that they're paying.
Like it could be a couple ofpeople with one bedroom.
They have different prices.
Like I don't know what's goingon.
It's like everybody's leastdifferent.

(20:16):
They just make it easy.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Right, so, but my point is and this question is to
Mr Mitchell you know you have a400 something unit apartment
and let's say the average rentis $1,500.
That's more than enough to makesome of the needed repairs that
needs to be made.
So what if there's a say, forexample, there's someone else

(20:45):
that's listening that lives inan apartment complex?
What could they do to start atenant association like tall?
Who should they contact?
Are you a resource for them?
You know, provide us a littlebit of guidance.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
You brought up a great point when it comes to
like how old the building is.
Right, so the building is 30,30 something years old and so,

(21:22):
like you said, you know, themortgage or the loan probably
would have been paid off.
And you know, I think, that asmall scale less people will be
covered under rent stabilizationevery year.
You know right what I would sayas far as looking for resources
, the best resources that Ifound in the county are

(21:42):
community legal services.
Ok, they do a lot of free legalhelp, legal aid Casa, of course

(22:13):
, casa de Maryland, maryland.
Casa de Maryland not only helpswith immigrants' rights issues,
but they member.
You then have access to berepresented, they have legal
counsel, and so they could bevery helpful.
And you have the NAACP, and soShanice, who you mentioned
earlier, who made sure to pullme into Miss Charlene's dilemma,
and several other apartments inthat area you know she's with
the NAACP they can be a resource.

(22:35):
They have a housing arm, theyhave a legal redress team, you
know, and there is a now there'sthe Prince George's, prince
George's County HousingCoalition, prince George's
County Housing Coalition, and soyou know that coalition can,
you know, help you out um giveyou tips on who to reach out to.
And you know, one of the thingsthat community legal service is

(22:58):
really important is like whenyou first engage them, ask them
if they're willing to.
You know, have a know yourrights clinic, um, and that's
important because it informs allof the tenants on what their
rights are as tenants.
Because you know, just as acouncil person, one of the
things that I've realized islike it's a lot easier to get

(23:20):
things done when you're inoffice or you have friends in
office, it's sad to say but,it's a truth, because you know,
if I am Jody, 80 years old, I'vebeen a resident for 30 years
and I'm calling about a certainissue, they might not treat you
accordingly, right.
But then when you get on thephone and you enlist a city

(23:44):
council member or a countycouncil member, you know or you
got the AG looking into things,right, like you're then going to
receive a different response, aquicker response, right.
But it shouldn't have to bethat way.
But when you guys standtogether like unified, you know
that's when, of course, the realpower comes.
And so, you know, I do say oneof the first things we do is, if

(24:08):
you're aggrieved by some of theconditions occurring in your
community, I can promise youthat there's neighbors that are
probably experiencing some ofthe same things or similar.
And so, you know, engage them,try to have a quick neighbor
meeting where you guys couldjust talk about issues and, you
know, see where you guys, seewhere you guys stand on things.

(24:28):
You might find out that youguys have a lot more in common.
And and when they you have atenant association.
I think management has torespond differently because it's
like it's an associationspeaking, you know, who
represent a large body of uhresidents, uh, as opposed to
just an individual resident whothey can silence.

(24:49):
Like I've been in thenegotiations when it comes to
negotiating with landlords, notjust for, you know, rent
increases, but you know, uh,housing.
And one of the first thingsthat they'll do, and it's
understandable, they'll try todivide the residents, right.
So they'll try to say, oh, weunderstand, we're going to meet
with all of you individually,like, don't go on rent strike,
you know, don't escrow, you knowwe're going to try to meet with

(25:11):
all of you individually.
And then, when they get withyou individually, they try to
adhere to every concerndifferently.
Right, as opposed to where, ifyou guys were an association and
you guys had a list of demandswhere you guys were like we're
not, we're not, we're notchanging our position until
these five things change, youknow what I mean.
And so, like you know, that's alot stronger than all these

(25:34):
individual demands, that thatthey could just, you know,
silence or or or you know um,make sufficient enough for you
to go away.
That's essentially what theywant to do.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
So absolutely everything he said.
We are, we, we've experiencedeverything that he just said I
mean from the beginning to nowis is all the things that we
experienced.
But see, I'm like poker, Idon't fold, okay, and I demand
to be heard, right, it's thatsimple.
I demand it.

(26:04):
You have to know who you are,you know, and not just let
people do what they want.
So all it takes is one, oneperson on that in that community
that started and, like you said, you find that there's others
who have the same problem asyours.
And that's what happened when,when I did my first one, I did

(26:27):
all the day.
I had a day for them to meet.
We met and I was like I couldnot believe even the attorney
that came from Costa.
He couldn't believe how manypeople had come to that meeting.
And when they came, they cameready.
All of them had their phones up.
They looked with their picturesand video recordings and

(26:49):
everything of all the plumbing,the mold, ceiling collapses.
I mean like they came ready,you know.
But, like I said, that's allthe tape.
But like everything he justsaid is absolutely true, because
we've had, like I've met withthe owner May the 22nd, you know
, like I've met with the ownerMay the 22nd you know, and in a

(27:25):
meeting they say, oh, we havesome tenants that came and said
that you guys, you know, theyjust try to play you against
each other.
Right, right, right, right.
You know, but you, just you gotto, you just got to demand to
be heard.
You know, because I've gottenin touch with several offices,
like, like the councilman, theattorney general, westmore, you
have to demand, just demand tobe heard.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Right, right.
So you've gone all the way upto the top.
You don't go to the governor ofthe state of Maryland, so
you've gone all the way up tothe top, you've gone to the
governor of the state ofMaryland.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
That's all right, Ms.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Hall.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, I have a meeting on the 6th with Nick
Charles.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
Okay, very good, very good, you can do it.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
You know, when they say you can have it, you can
have what you want.
You can have it if you want it,bad or not.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Right.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
And you just have to.
You know Right.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yes, you got to be a fly.
Just be a fly, yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah, but I'm with him.
I'm going to work witheverybody, with CASA, with
whomever, naacp, whatever.
If you fighting for a cause andyou want you know you're trying
to be heard, I'm with it.

(28:35):
I don't care, I don't put themovie, you know, because I don't
like to see people go throughstuff like that.
We have people on this propertythat's disabled, everything
they don't even have, it's noteven a handicap accessible on
this property, nowhere.
Yeah, okay, yeah, I just flewdown the steps here.
The stuff is still broke.
I mean yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
So it seems like, Ms Hall, you said that you guys
started back in April or May,but you guys still have a lot of
issues that you've got to getaddressed.
I believe the ADA requirementswere even existent back in the
90s, so I'm a little surprisedthat they're not, that that has
been addressed as well.

(29:12):
So, mr Mitchell, besidesgetting the tenants together and
having them come for a meeting,what would be some of the next
steps that they do?
Should they write a letter totheir landlords or should they
get in touch with countyofficials?

Speaker 2 (29:32):
That's a great one.
So, of course, them comingtogether and recognizing them as
an association, a group, isimportant.
Organize first, organize first.
Organize yourself first, getyourself organized, but after
that you want to figure outwhat's important to the group.
You know what is your bottomline, you know what are the

(29:53):
demands, um and when.
Once you have that together,it's important to go to the
elected officials.
You know, and I think to misscharlene's point, get your, get
your group organized before yougo outside, first, um, and then,
as she said, enlist everyperson down to the central
committee.
If you don't know what thecentral committee is, you know

(30:13):
it's an elected position wherethey help fill vacancies and
help with elections.
You know, and so a lot ofpeople don't understand, enlist
everybody.
You know, your senator, yourdelegate.
If you don't know where to findthem, mdelectnet, you type in
your address and it tells youwho represents you anywhere in
the state of maryland,mdelectnet.

(30:33):
And so, yes, of course, gettingyourselves organized.
After you do that, uh, reachingout to your elected officials,
um, and then what I?
What I would do is I would geta petition to go around to the
residents and, in lieu of or orin addition of sending a letter
I would also send a petition to,so they know that, like you

(30:54):
know, this is coming from theassociation, or you know 50, 60
of us, you know out of 80, or apart of this, and so they could
just see the strength in numbers.
Um, you know.
So that that's probably what Iwould do, is, you know, organize
ourselves, then figure out what, what our bottom line is, what
our demands are, reach out tothe elected officials, the

(31:16):
community stakeholders, becausesometimes it's not, sometimes
it's not just elected officials,it's the other community
stakeholders as well, and weshouldn't, we shouldn't, sell
them short on how they can helpbecause, as I tell you a lot of
times, the elected officials andthese community stakeholders,
they will ask for your help whenthey need it.

(31:37):
So we have to, you know, get in, the get in the habit of asking
for help when we need it.
You know, you know directly andyou know very upfront about it.
One of the things I wanted tosay was we need to focus on
legislation.
I talk about direct action allthe time, but I believe direct
action is followed up withpolicy and I believe that we

(31:58):
change people's lives throughgood, intentional policy.
And one of the things that Irealized was a lot of these
issues happen because, for one,a lot of these issues happen
because, for one, the very firstissue that I dealt with in in
in laurel was because the thepeople who had lived there 20,
30, 40 years didn't have writtenleases, right, and so you

(32:20):
wonder.
You wonder how someone can livein a facility of the building
and not have a written lease.
Like that was just somethingthat, in 2021, I was bewildered
by.
So I reached out to a statedelegate, mary Mary Lehman.
Mary Lehman had asked aquestion directly to the state,
basically asking them is thereany type of requirement, you

(32:42):
know, for a written lease?
And what we had found out wasin the state of Maryland,
handshake lease agreements arelegal you know's nothing,
there's no binding, there's nobinding law that, yes, that says
you have a written, a writtenlease.
And so this is something I'veadvocated for at the municipal
level, at the county level, atthe state level, because one of

(33:03):
the things that that we hadrealized is a lot of the tenants
when, when these extreme renthikes came, they didn't really
realize how much they werepaying or how, like, how much
the increase, how much, howlittle the increase that
happened over the years, becausethey had no actual like lease
to like look back on, we paidthis one thing for this amount

(33:23):
of years.
And then you have this newowner saying it.
You know, I, I don't, I don'tsee it.
You know the the books aren'tadding up.
You know what I mean.
And so those record keepingissues, of course, happen as
well too.
Or when they transfer ownership, it doesn't always happen, they

(33:45):
don't always.
You know, 51% of the apartmenttrying to be evicted from
balances that existed from aprior management company.
You know where the balanceswere incorrect, or they didn't
have the actual lease like onfile, and so it was kind of a
big issue, you know.

(34:05):
But I think that could changethings.
And maryland, you know, I know,a county council member has told
me this directly.
I've looked it up.
You know, even federally,there's no requirement for them
to one um mention when it hasblack mold to a potential buyer
or renter, right.
So, moving into a unit, youknow there's no requirement for

(34:27):
the landlord to be like thisplace has a mold issue or has
had a mold issue.
The same way I would have todispose, I would have to
disclose that.
With lead paint, if there was alead paint issue, I have to
disclose that it's beenremediated, it's been abated
since, so on and so forth, andthen there's really no
requirement for them to fix it.

(34:47):
The black mold issue issue,even though it could be a
substantial health issue outsideof getting remediated in court.
You know what I mean, and so atthat point the best thing would
be to file a rent escrow case,meaning that you pay the court
directly instead of paying yourlandlord, and then the court
would make up the decision.
Um on, you know if the landlordshould be held accountable or

(35:08):
not.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
They don't do rent escrows for most.
Can you believe that they donot?
You cannot get them.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
That's what we're talking about right there you
cannot get one Right.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
That's what we're talking about.
You can't get one.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
So we can go right back to the state and tell them
hey, we need to add this, youknow we, we need to add, you
know we need to add.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
That's what I'm talking about, like I told Ms
Singleton when she called mefrom Andrew Brunzo.
I said we're not here just toget upgraded appliances and
things.
I said we need to change the lawright that's what we here for
we need to change it, we need,we need, as tenants, we need to
be protected.
So that's why I'm doing this,you know.

(35:51):
And then another thing as faras the landlords I mean the
tenants are concerned, I alwayssay to the tenants and I've been
saying this for years ask for aledger.
I have one since the time Imoved in.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Just in case they had some little problems, I have my
ledger Right.
Okay, that tells you everythingright there.
So ask for one.
You have a problem because younever know what they're doing.
If they're doing something,they don't have no business.
And then when you talk aboutthe bookkeeping and all that, so
if they did bookkeeping rightnow, charlene has a legend From

(36:28):
the time I moved here up untiltoday.
I have a legend.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
So it sounds like that Maryland I've always I've
always heard this.
I have not been a renter inMaryland Maryland needs a
tenants bill of rights law,basically because because you

(36:52):
know, you hear like in the stateof, and you hear even in DC,
that tenants have rights and thetenants know their rights in DC
and in New York and they makesure that they hold their
landlords accountable.
My daughter lives in Californiaand she's leasing In California

(37:21):
.
She's leasing and she had theaddendums to her leases included
black mold notice, lead paintnotice all of those things that
Mr Mitchell just mentioned thatwe don't have here in Maryland
is something that we need inMaryland.
And so, mr Mitchell, as ahousing justice advocate, are
you advocating for thislegislation at the state level?
And you know, have youpresented this as some local
bills?
Who would be sponsoring thatand what are some of the

(37:46):
legislative outcomes that wehope to get as a result of your
advocacy?

Speaker 2 (38:00):
of your advocacy.
So I would say that this is avery intricate issue housing
right but everyone should livein adequate housing and anybody
who's an attorney, especially ahousing attorney, has probably
heard these four words impliedwarrant of habitability.
What that simply means is, whenI'm renting a property, the
renter should be free ofunburdened with sound,

(38:27):
unburdened with safety concerns,unburdened with health issues.
That's generally what it means.
What I have seen is I've seenthose rights violated for years,
and we just recently passed theTenant Safety Act and so I'm
sure Charlene or other membersof the community, once it

(38:50):
becomes available October 1,because the bill passed and that
that basically allows people tofile a joint lawsuit.
So if I am in a building or anapartment complex and I know
that my neighbors are aggrievedand have the same issue, you
know we can find strengthtogether and solidarity together
and file a lawsuit against thatmanagement company, that

(39:11):
apartment complex.
And you know you best believethat things are going to get
handled and settled a lotquicker if we do it as a joint
suit, because prior to that youall had to do it individually,
as individual cases.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Okay, so is that local to Prince George's County
or is that in the state ofMaryland Statewide?

Speaker 3 (39:31):
It's October, october 2024, going to effect.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
But one of the things that is very important and it's
been a conversation you'veheard Juanica Fisher say that
they supported it.
The council supported it.
Good calls.
We passed rent stabilizationand that's great.
That's one thing that will helppeople's rents not go up
tremendously, you know, notaffect the rate of change.
But when I say good cause, whatthat means is your landlord

(40:04):
cannot evict you or cannotdecide to not renew your lease
for any reason.
They need good cause.
You have retaliatory evictions.
Retaliatory evictions are verydifficult to prove, Right.
But if I am somebody likeyourself and I organize a tenant
association, Right, and thattenant association then causes

(40:25):
me problems, hey, you know, froma business perspective I might
want to get rid of the problem.
Right, I get that I understand,that you know but you know,
passing good calls would allowyou know the tenant to have, you
know rights, because the tenantdoes have rights, and one of
the things that is veryimportant to DC is they have

(40:45):
that first right of refusal, youknow.
So if that, if that building issold, you know the tenants can
then band together and andpurchase it, um, as part of a
cooperative right, and so nowthe tenants would own and and
and operate that building, andso that's very important.
But, but, but tamra, I live inprince george's county.
Prince george's county has 27municipalities, right, and I can

(41:08):
tell you how frustrating it isto advocate for code enforcement
to do the work.
Right, yeah, right, and thismay get on.
I'm going to give you the wholespectrum of things.
Right, the code enforcement todo the job, because one at the
county level, code enforcement,is burdened.
There's not enough codeenforcement officers to serve

(41:29):
the entire county.
I worked at the county yearsago.
I remember there was 10 for,like the entire county, and you
had supervisors and managersdoing the code enforcement work.
That's.
That's still similar when itcomes to municipalities, right.
And so let's just say aparticular issue I have.
There was a gentleman who Ifound I was trying to illegally
vic somebody out of a legallysubdivided unit that he was

(41:52):
illegally renting, right.
And so, you know, I wondered,hey, how does this happen?
But then I found out, not onlythis, he's been renting for 20
years, you know what I mean, andthe city knows he didn't have a
license, you know.
But the funny thing is is he'san old business owner in like
the city, in like the Westlawarea.
So you know, it's thebureaucracy of things, like you

(42:15):
know, it's the bureaucracy ofthings.
Like you know.
People probably just turned ablind eye and he might have
helped a few people with housing.
But my biggest thing is like,where is his rental license?
And I even asked the city.
City, he has no rental license.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Ms Hall mentioned that to me before we started
recording that a lot of theapartment complexes don't have a
rental license.
How is that even possible inthe county, Mr Mitchell?

Speaker 2 (42:44):
So I want to say that it could be oversight to some
extent, but I think that it'salso ignorance.
I think that in that situationthat I was particularly talking
about, there were people thatwere aware that he, this, this
individual did not have alicense.
He's been renting, but theydidn't want to act on it.
They, they didn't want to doanything to enforce it.

(43:04):
But then I reached out to thecounty, right, and you
understand that when you're in amunicipality it's very tricky.
I'll call the county, they'llask me where I am, even as a
council person, you knowactually where I am.
I'm telling them, I'm tellingthe issue.
They're like oh, you guys areyour own separate, uh, entity,
you guys have your own codeenforcement.
So you know we can't act onthat right, like you know, and

(43:26):
and that's just.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
It's just very interesting they don't help,
they don't hold the landlordaccountable.
D-pie is doing nothing.
You hear me when I tell youwhen people come, when the
inspectors come, what's crazy isthey've been looking at all the

(43:50):
outside when we got all thesetickets like 800 probably, or
more tickets of things that'snot working in our unit like me,
for example, that's safety inmy house, right and they haven't
taken care of it at all.
We have a lot of gas leaks herealso, you know we just had

(44:11):
another one last night andD-Pi's just I don't know, maybe
they need to just clean this,you know, just clean those,
Right, Because they're not doingtheir job at all.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
We need to add people .
We need to add people.
That's been.
You can ask any countyexecutive, right from probably
with Sherm to the people who aregoing to run for county
executive next Is D-Pi properlystaffed?
All of them will probably tellyou an honest answer no, it's
not properly staffed.
So what is your solution?
To properly staff DPI.
Right, because DPI beingproperly staffed is important,

(44:44):
not just for the codeenforcement but now for the rent
stabilization.
Right For them to make surethat people aren't hiking it
above that 3%, you know.
Or CPI plus 3%.
Right With the max of 6 to makesure that that doesn't happen.
And so properly staffing deephigh is very important.
But also paying them, becausewhat people will do is they'll

(45:04):
start in Prince George's County,they'll get their bearings and
then they'll move to MontgomeryCounty, they'll move to Howard
County and do code enforcementwhere they pay actually better.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
So you mentioned, mr Mitchell, there's a couple of
things and I wrote them down.
So we've got the Tenant SafetyAct that's coming up and it'll
be effective October 1st.
What about what otherlegislation are you pursuing?

(45:35):
What other policy?
Because you mentioned, you knowthere are specific acts that
individual and collectivetenants can do, but what are
some of the other policy actsthat we are asking our
legislators to do?
Because one of the things that Ilike to do on this podcast and
the reason I started thispodcast podcast is to get a
younger generation of listenersbecause they listen to podcasts,

(46:00):
right and the millennials andyounger, so that they can be,
you know they're.
You know, like I said, I have adaughter who's a tenant.
She lives out in California,but you know this issue could
affect some of her friends thatstill live here because they are
probably tenants or soon to betenants.

(46:21):
So what's the other legislationthat they could be helping you
advocate for as a housingjustice advocate?
You know, maybe to get makesure that we require the license
, whatever else, what are someof the other legislation
policies that we should bepursuing?

Speaker 2 (46:42):
That is so crucial that you asked me like.
Prior to being a council person, I was president of the Prince
George's County Young Democratsand I remember that we had a
general body meeting and amember asked former council
chair Todd Turner you know whyis housing so unaffordable in

(47:03):
Prince George's County?
Right, and not just not justsingle family or townhomes, but
rental homes and rentalproperties.
And you know, generallyspeaking, you know.
Todd responded, as most youknow, prince George's figures
would especially moreestablishment figures in the

(47:24):
sense of we are probably themost affordable in reference to
our region.
Right, if we're talking aboutDC or we're talking about
northern Virginia, right, eventhough, that's true, a lot of
those, a lot of a lot of theplaces are still unaffordable.

(47:45):
Right, like you know, people inmy generation and earlier are
still having difficultypurchasing homes.
Right, but not only that, butthen where we're paying rents
that are somewhat, sometimeshigher than people's mortgage
and a lot of times higher thanpeople's mortgage, right.
And so what I told him was weshould, as a county, when it

(48:07):
comes to the developmentconsiderations, they look at
area median income and theyalways base that area median
income off of the uh, thenorthern virginia area and that
northern virginia area, you know, if you know anything about
housing prices and you know howwealthy it is, it has two of the
10 top richest counties inamerica right there in northern

(48:30):
virginia, right, so that I think, I think that it's like it's
unfair to um, um, have that.
What is it that?
That threshold of 70% of areamedian income threshold, you
know, like I think we shouldtalk more about deeply
affordable housing, you know,which is 20, 30, 40% of that
area median income.

(48:51):
You know, because, at the endof the day, like I said in a lot
of times, in that region we'reconsidering Northern Virginia
and we're considering DC, whichis a lot more affluent, um, you
know, and, and so you know thatthat's that.
That's really one of the things.
You know, I, I would consider,uh, but then I would, I would
also consider, you know, makingsure that there was um more

(49:12):
rental assistance, um, morerental assistance, more rental
assistance and first-timehomebuyer assistance.
You know, I know that's one ofthe things that Kamala has
spoken about and advocated for.
So I do hope that there are,because one of the things we've
seen is like, when we givepeople assistance, we give
people more money.
You know, the government lateron is paying a smaller cost

(49:35):
right.
We've seen universal basicincome actually work at a pilot
level.
You know where people they havemore money when they're
actually able to start off atthe poverty line.
You know prior to anyemployment.
Right, like the thought is ispeople do better, especially
when we address it the firsttime, and I think that could be
said when it comes to fixing theissues.

(49:57):
The reason that Ms Charlene'sbuilding continues to decline is
because when it comes to themfixing the issues, they're doing
small band-aids instead ofactually addressing the problem,
and it's costing the residentsmore agony and it's costing, of
course, the business owners moremoney and grief in the long run
.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Right.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Right.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Okay, well, those are some good, good plugs I do,
because you mentioned morerental assistance and assistance
for first-time home buyers.
I wanted to put in a plug foran organization that I'm on the
board of.
It's called HOPE.
Hope stands for Housing OptionsPlanning Enterprises.

(50:39):
It's a nonprofit organizationthat provides residents with
first-time homebuyers assistanceas well as rental assistance.
That's number one.
As well as rental assistancethat's number one.
Number two the goal of HOPE isto make sure that all people are

(51:00):
housed, meaning whether it'sbuying a house, getting into an
apartment and being able tosustain the housing that they
have, so that everyone hassustainable housing, and so that
is one resource.
It's called again HOPE.
It's H the acronym HousingOptions Planning Enterprises.

(51:24):
I'm on that board for people toprovide services to, for our not
only rental assistance,first-time home buying
assistance.
We do micro-lending, for if youare a small business owner and

(51:44):
you're trying to start abusiness, we do some
micro-lending.
There's just a whole plethoraof services.
In fact, I just got off of aboard call last week saying
we're looking for more clients.
We have grant programs, we havegrant money that we might have
to return because we don't havepeople knocking on our doors,
and so I'm going to use this asa plug to look up HOPE.

(52:06):
If you just do a internet searchin your browser for HOPE H
period, o period, p period, eperiod but it stands again for
Housing Options PlanningEnterprises and they have a lot
of resources that people can usein order to get into the proper
housing again, whether it'srenting or buying, and to stay

(52:30):
and maintain.
The main thing is that we'retrying to make sure that people
are able to stay and maintain,be sustainable, have sustainable
housing.
So I just wanted to put thatplug in.
I know Ms Donna Hurley, who isour executive director, would
certainly appreciate hearingfrom our listeners if they are

(52:50):
in need of help.
Mr Mitchell, we're coming tothe hour now.
Is there a contact informationthat we could share with our
listeners if they wanted toreach out to you in order to get
a housing justice advocate thatyou'd like to share?

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yes.
So I would say email is lastname, first name, so the best
email is Mitchell Martin 1549 atGmail.
So if you need to email me butsocial media, you can just find
me Martin Mitchell or MartinAnthony Mitchell on Facebook.

(53:33):
On Instagram, martin for Laurel.
I'm also my professional pageon Facebook, martin for Laurel,
and also on Twitter Busboys andPoets in Hydesville.
They're going to have aconversation and a movie
screening on rent stabilizationby Councilmember Oriada.

(53:55):
Councilmember Oriada.
She helped lead the fight forrent stabilization at the county
level and so she has afeature-length film that we're
going to view at Busboys andPoets in Hydesville and then
have a short discussion Q&Aafter, and so definitely plan on

(54:22):
that one September 22nd atBusboys and Poets in Hydesville.
Just put the time tentativelyat 6 pm, because I'm not sure if
they confirmed the time, but Iwould put 6 pm.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Yeah, I actually think I saw her email on that
that just came out this pastweek.
I'll try to see if I can findthat, but go ahead with the next
event, if you have anything.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Yes, and so this reminded me, because you were
talking about hope and you weretalking about the financial
services.
I do a quarterly expungementclinic every three to four
months, helping people cleartheir criminal and traffic
record, and so we'll be doinganother one on October 26th at

(55:12):
the Laurel Branch Library, andwe are adding a component.
We usually do an expungementclinic slash know your rights
clinic, but this time we'redoing an expungement clinic
slash holistic wellness fair,and so we're going to have some
financial service providers,we're going to have health

(55:34):
providers, we'll also have, likeemployee pensions there with
the mobile job van, and so thatevent will be at the Laurel
Branch Library on October 26thfrom 10 am to 1 pm, and we will
have a lot of community partners.
You know, giveaways, food and,of course, free legal help.

(55:58):
And one of the things I'mexcited about is we will have an
immigration team there thistime giving help with
immigration issues.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Excellent, Ms Hall, also with you.
When is the next tenantassociation meeting at Heather
Hills?
What's the next step for youguys?
What are you guys planning toensure that your living
conditions are improved atHeather Hills Apartments in
Temple Hills?

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Right now we're working on a rally.
We have a room where we meet,so we communicate every day.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
As a collective just every day, and we send out 311
tickets in every day on a daily.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
Okay, excellent.
Lives in another tenantassociation.
You know apartment complex thatwants to get started and find
out what you guys did to getstarted.
Do you want to share yourcontact information, or at least
an email?
Maybe you can give them someguidance.
They may be listening and say,hey, we've got some similar

(57:11):
issues here in Oxon Hill, or youknow wherever they may be
living and they want to, youknow, bounce some ideas off of
you.
What's your email address?

Speaker 3 (57:26):
Hall H-A-L-L-C-H-A-R.
Number six at gmailcom, and mynumber is 301-437-3027.
And I have another one,240-722-5319.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Okay, and so we'll put all of those resources and
what we call our show notes,those from Mr Mitchell as well
as Ms Hall, so that you'll havethose down as well and you can
reach out to them about thevarious events.
I'll put the information aboutHOPE in there as well, so you'll

(58:04):
have all of those resources.
Well, it's been a pleasurehaving you both.
This is the first time I've hadtwo guests on at the same time.
It's been a pleasure having youboth to speak about tenants'
rights and how to deal withtenant issues, particularly not
only at Heather Hill, but justhousing justice in general, and

(58:28):
we certainly applaud the workthat Mr Mitchell is doing as a
housing justice advocate andworking with CASA, casa de
Maryland.
We'll put some of thoseresources in as well, and we
thank you so much for taking outyour time.
I know it's a holiday weekendit's Labor Day weekend and we
probably won't get thispublished until after the

(58:49):
holiday, but certainly thank youfor taking out the time on your
weekend and the holiday weekendto join us.
It's been very informative andI will let, ms Charlene, if you
have any other last things thatyou want to say to our listening
audience, particularly thoseyoung folks that may be getting

(59:10):
ready to sign that lease Read.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
That's what they have to do.
Read them.
Fine words, anything you don'tunderstand, google it or try to
get some type of assistant.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Okay.
Somebody you feel you know,okay and Mr Mitchell, any
parting words you have for anyyoung person that might be
getting ready to sign a leasehere in Prince George's County.
Young person that might begetting ready to sign a lease
here in Prince George's County.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
We can kick stones at the gate alone, or we can come
together and move boulders, andso they're just saying
collective power, we can getanything done.
But then also also, I wassaying that the people are the
market and reminding, remindingthe business owners, reminding
the ecosystem, when they say themarket and things are out of

(59:59):
the market's control, that thepeople make up the market the
consumers, the renters, you knowthe buyers, they make up the
market and so anything can bedone.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
I was just going to say.
Also, you know, pay attentionto the reviews.
You know, when people leavereviews yes, about a property
complex, that's very importantdo not ignore those reviews.
And also, when you have peopleout here like martin that's
fighting, you know, for rentstabilization, and just you know
us fighting period, uh, besupportive, you know.
Right, because numbers matter.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Right, right, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Those numbers matter Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Well, once again, thank you so much again for
taking time out of your holidayweekend to be with us on.
All Politics is Local.
I certainly appreciate you andMs Hall.
If there's any assistance thatI can be of you guys to Heather
Heals, please do not hesitate tocall.

(01:01:02):
Likewise, martin.
We've kind of hooked up in thelast couple of weeks or months,
I should say, since the specialelection.
But I certainly appreciate allthe work hard work you're doing
in space and appreciate you andfeel free to call on me and we

(01:01:23):
hope we'll maybe even have youback and have some updates and
some improvements on what hashappened since this podcast.
So thank you so much forjoining me.
Please join us again on anotheredition of All Politics is
Local.