#003: Leading with Vulnerability: Rev. Dr. Tiffani Milne on Authenticity, Connection, and Spiritual Growth

Episode Transcript
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Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (00:07):
Hi, I'm Rev Dr Thor Chalgren and
welcome to All Revved Up thepodcast for spiritual leaders
navigating life, purpose andleadership in our ever-changing
world.
Today I'm joined by Rev DrTiffany Milne, a minister at
Global Truth Center and asuccessful business leader.
This episode dives into the rawand honest challenges of

(00:28):
leadership, especially indifficult times.

Rev. Dr. Tiffani Milne (00:31):
I had a moment.
I'll be honest where I was like, should I just give up the
license?
Like honestly, like I'm not upto the challenge of being a
leader in a world that lookslike this.
I'm tired, my soul is tired, Ican't believe we're here again.
But then it was like, okay,what if you just allow that
sadness, allow it to weigh onyour heart and trust that, on
the other side, I willintuitively know what's mine to

(00:53):
do?

Rev. Dr. Thor Chal (00:55):
Authenticity is at the heart of what we do
as spiritual leaders.
Here Dr Tiffany reflects onwhat it means to show up as your
true self.

And what people are really looking for
is authenticity.
What they really want to see ishow do you look at the world,
how do you walk throughsomething like an election and
what is the consciousness thatyou go through?
How does it look like when lifehappens in your life and how do
you navigate it?

We also talk about how leadership
rooted in oneness createsextraordinary possibilities,
whether in ministry or thecorporate world.

Well, if your primary premise is oneness
, which it is in spiritualcircles, right that we're all
one.
If you can apply that principleto your team at work, or to a
classroom, or to you know,wherever you are, everybody
feels valued, everybody feelsimportant, everybody feels

(01:53):
central, everybody feelssupported and taken care of,
then now, what great work can wego out and do?

This conversation is a testament to
the power of vulnerability,authenticity and love as guiding
principles for leadership.
Here now is my interview withReverend Dr Tiffani Milne.
Dr Tiffani Milne, welcome tothe show.

(02:20):
It is so great to have you heretoday.

Thanks, dr Thor, I'm excited to be here
the show.

It is so great to have you here today.
Thanks, dr Thor.
I'm excited to be here, me too.
Well, let's get the showstarted, if you wouldn't mind,
by doing a treatment for us andfor the audience that's
listening to this and ourconversation?

Sure, I'd love to.
All right, let's just take adeep breath, close your eyes, if
it feels comfortable, andcenter in this moment,
recognizing that, right where Iam, god is that we live in an
infinite, expansive field ofintelligence.
This quantum field is all things, all things seen and unseen,

(02:59):
and I know that this is who I am, this is who Thor is.
Each person listening, tuninginto this podcast and beyond is
this infinite intelligence, thislove, this light, this
energetic field of purepossibility.
And so what I know is thattoday's podcast and meeting of
the minds is a divineappointment filled with

(03:20):
enlightenment, with exchange ofideas, god talking to God, love
talking to love.
I recognize that what needs tobe said is said, what needs to
be heard is heard, and theripples go out in an infinite
cascade of beauty and love andtruth.
And I'm so grateful for thistime together, for this

(03:40):
experience, for this knowing,for this teaching, for this love
and connection and gathering ofoneness, and with that, I
simply release this word as law,knowing it is already done, as
together we say and so it isBeautiful, thank you, thank you.

Well, this episode is going to come
out the week of Thanksgiving.
We're recording this about aweek before, and it was
interesting for the audience.
This is the second interviewthat I've done for the show, and
originally this was going tocome out in January and then
something happened in Novemberthat sort of just made

(04:21):
everything feel like it requireda more immediate conversation,
a conversation where we can sortof speak about real and frank
things, and I thought, giventhat this is coming out
Thanksgiving, it's kind of theperfect opportunity to have a
little bit of real talk, becausefirst I want to, I'm going to

(04:41):
ask you in a second, like howyou've been processing the week
or so post-election, what you'venoticed.
But then also, you know, talkabout when we're sitting around
the table with people, and thisis like the last 10 years it's
not just this year, but the last10 years these sort of family

(05:02):
moments or the conversationswith friends around the
Thanksgiving table, theChristmas table, whatever the
season is.
It's been a little bit tense,and so I want to talk about that
.
How do we have theseconversations where we recognize
oneness, we recognize there'snothing but love, and yet
there's this very real.

(05:23):
I don't want to say it's real,but there's a perceived divide
in our country, right now anyway.
So let me start by asking howare you feeling now that we're
about a week or so removed fromthe events of November 5th?

Oh man, okay, so I feel like a little
bit of my history has to go intothe answering of that question,
just because I come from aplace that I sort of grew up
with were very much indignantrighteousness, and there is a

(06:13):
right side and a wrong side.
There's a right side of history, there's a wrong side of
history and judgment.
I actually, if we're going toget, if I'm going to be really
transparent about me, I actually, if we're going to get, if I'm
going to be really transparentabout it, I actually thought
that I was put on this planet toput people in their place who
other people weren't capable ofputting in their place.

(06:34):
Like you know, sharp wit,acerbic and you know, and
cynical, and so I have.
In this teaching we talk aboutthe fact that old beliefs don't
go away.
Right, it's still that.
That still exists.
It's just that I started togrow and evolve and develop new

(06:55):
beliefs and beliefs that aremore rooted in love and oneness
and connection, right, and so asI started studying and I
started, started growing and Ibecame a minister and then I got
my doctorate in consciousnessstudies, my worldview started to
really grow and expand andthere was room for love, even in

(07:16):
situations that didn't seemloving or and there was room to
love people that I may notalways like right, or to not
have to stand in thatrighteousness.
And then last Tuesday happened,and this is the first time in my
life, so I know what old medoes in a situation like this.

(07:40):
I know that girl really, reallywell and I also know the me of
the last you know, say 10 years,that is really able to take a
30,000 foot view to things andreally take a step back, even
though something may appear.
You know, just because I don't,I can't see the good right now,

(08:00):
doesn't mean that good doesn'texist right now, doesn't mean
that good doesn't exist.
And just because I don't knowwhy something has happened does
not mean that there isn't somegreater meaning or that life
isn't unfolding perfectly.
What I've never experiencedbefore is the me of Tuesday
night that knew bothsimultaneously, the me of

(08:22):
Tuesday night that felt honestly, just a deep, deep sadness for
where we are as people.
Not in any sort of judgmentabout it or these people are
good and these people are bad,or these are right or these are
wrong, but just we're so divided.
There's clearly so much fear.
People are afraid on both sidesof the aisle I've seen a lot of

(08:46):
people, a lot of Republicans,saying I don't like this man, I
don't stand for what he standsfor Not to make this a political
thing, but it's not about him,it's about the state of the
country.
I'm afraid for the economy, I'mafraid for world events, I'm
afraid of immigrants, you know,or whatever the case may be.

(09:08):
And recognizing that we'vegotten to this place of so much
divine and being able to havethe 30,000 foot view of seeing
that and seeing that ultimatelyit's not a case of good versus
evil, and also being really,really sad and angry and feeling

(09:30):
the injustice in my own heartthat it felt like, and so it's
taken a lot of processing, it'sbeen a lot of tears, if I'm
being really honest.
I've been really sad and I'vehad moments of anger and I've
had moments, you know, I thinksometimes we think you get an
REV and suddenly you know, allnegative emotion just goes away

(09:51):
and I'm just floating on a cloudwherever I go.

It's all good, it's all God.

It's all good, it's all God, but that's
really just a bypass.
It's really a bypass, what?
What is a neat experience is tobe able to trust.
There was a deep, profoundtrust this time that I could
walk through all of the emotionand knowing a force for good in
the world, in a world that feelsyou know.

(10:27):
I had a moment I'll be honestwhere I was like should I just
give up the license?
Like, honestly, like I'm not upto the challenge of being a
leader in a world that lookslike this.
I'm tired, my soul is tired.
I can't believe we're hereagain.
But then it was like, okay,what if you just allow that
sadness, allow it to weigh onyour heart and trust that on the
other side, I will intuitivelyknow what's mine to do.

(10:49):
And so today, what was mine todo is to show up in the podcast
and just be transparent, like Idon't have.
A week later, I don't have allthe answers.
I really don't.

You and I spoke the day after the
election on Wednesday, because Iwas asking you hey, are you
still's trying to process thisin a way that's helpful for
other people, that you can doboth, and I think that was so.
I loved hearing that because Ithink it can be natural that if
you're a spiritual leader orsomeone that aspires to live
your life that way, you can lookat it and go I'm not supposed
to feel sad and yet that allyou're doing to your point of
you know it's just bypass.
If I just say no, no, no, Ican't feel sad, I can't feel

(11:54):
this way at all.
I need to just be like it's allright, I'm going to figure it
out, it's all good, it's all God.
That's not going to help you asa person and ultimately is
going to make you an inauthenticleader.
I think right.

Well and I think it's alienating and
it's actually disrespectful topeople and what they're going
through.
You know, I have a lot ofspiritual leaders in my
community on social media and alot of you know people in this
space and so you know you turnon social media and you've got
the people who are posting.
You know people in this spaceand so you know you turn on
social media and you've got thepeople who are posting.
You know blog posts or they'resending out whatever.

(12:29):
And I, as somebody who you knowhas training on and has come a
long way from my first responsebeing F you.
When I opened it up and I sawpeople bypassing it and it's all
good, it's all gone, my firstthought was kind of F you.
If I opened it up and I sawpeople bypassing it and it's all
good, it's all gone, my firstthought was kind of F you.

(12:49):
If I'm being honest, it was likeit's inauthentic and and part
of it is allowing people to bein the space that they're at,
like it's compassionate to say Isee you, I know a higher truth
and I know we're going to beokay and it's okay to feel the
feelings that you're feeling.
It's okay to have the emotionsthat you're having and like,
let's be in that space and I'llhold you, rather than I need to

(13:14):
fix it.
You know, kicking kitty litterover and pretending like it
doesn't happen just creates,honestly, like cancer, I mean it
literally.
Just it creates such a andstuffed emotion and repression
and all the things like.
I want to blow it wide open, Iwant to experience it all, I
want to feel it all so that Ican get to the other side of it,

(13:35):
Cause the ultimate goal is toget to a place of peace and to
get to a place of action andempowerment.
But if I pretend like I'mfeeling empowered when I'm not,
I'm not actually.
You're not cooking with gas,you're just sort of faking it
till you make it, I guess, whichI don't believe in.

And you , just to sort of give a context
, the very next day you had aclass to teach with
practitioners, so you kind ofscrapped your original teaching
plan.
What did you do the first houror so of the class?
You know, 24 hours removed fromthe election.

Yeah.
So I think you know I had, asthe results were coming in,
tuesday night and when I woke upWednesday morning I was like,
oh my, I wanted to sink intolike, oh my, goodness, you know,
I, I had all of it going on atonce and I thought, wow, this
class should really be taught byan adult.
I should go find one.

(14:34):
Can I wrangle somebody in withgreater emotional maturity than
I have at the moment to teachthis class?
And then I recognized than Ihave at the moment to teach this
class.
And then I recognized I waslike, oh no, like I have a
commitment, and it's not just acommitment to the students that

(14:55):
I agreed to teach on a Wednesdaynight, it's a commitment to
living by these principles.
It's a commitment toconsciousness, not that it's
okay, not that it's not okay tohave feelings that are, not that
it's okay, not that it's notokay to have feelings that are.
But I have committed to livingmy life by these principles.
And if that's the case, thenit's my job to get to a place

(15:15):
where I can show upauthentically, not, you know, in
a it's all good, it's all Godkind of way, but in a authentic.
Where are we at.
So I did, I scrapped the entirewe were going to go over.
One of what we're working on isspiritual mind treatments and
what makes effective treatments,and identifying the mental

(15:37):
cause or the beliefs behind thecondition, as well as the
spiritual truth of the conditionand how to move energy.
And so you know, every weekthey do homework based on their
life and we come in and we talkabout it and as a class, we
identify all that.
And I was like who wants to?
You know, do a class.
We were working on, I think,childhood memories and I was

(15:59):
like it just felt like can youjust show up and be like all of
this is going on?
There's so much emotion, it Canyou just show up and be like
all of this is going on?
There's so much emotion, it'spalpable in the world.
Let's just talk about when youwere seven and pretend like it
didn't happen.
And so I just opened the classwith let's talk about it, where
are we at?
And then we used it and what dowe teach?

(16:19):
And then we went, broke offinto groups and did spiritual
mind treatments about theelection and where we are as a
country.
And then we did the samecurriculum, you know,
identifying the beliefs andidentifying the, you know, the
spiritual truth and all thatstuff.
But we did it in the context ofwhat's going on today, because
I think you know, I mean, whatbetter class than this is?

(16:42):
You know, I remember I was anewly brand new minister.
I'd probably only been licensedfor a definitely less than well
, maybe not less than a year, Idon't remember the timeline, but
I felt very new and it wasright after the mass school
shooting in Texas and it hadhappened, like you know, very

(17:02):
late in the week and I wassupposed to give the Sunday
service that Sunday and Iremember first looking for an
adult, I called our spiritualdirector, thinking surely he
would say, oh, this calls for agrownup, I'll take over Sunday
service, which he did not do.
And then I had to remember,like, what do I believe, what do

(17:23):
I know, and how can I show upin the most authentic way in
service of a community thatneeded to grieve and needed to
heal?
And you know.
So I had to scrap the talk thatI was originally going to give
and we talked about it.
Yeah, I don't know if thatanswers your question, but
that's what I did.

No, it does.
And I think one of the thingsthat's interesting as I think
look back to practitionertraining, ministerial training
probably the things that standout most to me are the moments
where I got to observe oursenior minister learning like,

(18:06):
okay, this is how you not thathe's always right, but he is
doing what you just described.
He's processing things, beingauthentic, being genuine here's
where I'm at with this but alsodoing it from a place of knowing
principle, and that, I think,is so important.

Well, and I think the challenge is is
that you're also, you know youdon't bring your mess to your
congregation right.
It's not appropriate to get upon a Sunday and give a talk
where you're still processingand working out your own crap,
and so you have to have a pointof view about it.
But I think that early on Ithought that that meant that I
had to have risen all the way tothe 30,000 foot view, and I

(18:42):
think sometimes there's value inI'm just five minutes ahead of
you.
It's not that I have it allfigured out, it's not that I
don't have bad days or that Idon't, you know, have sometimes,
you know, have an initialreaction that is not the most
spiritually grounded, but Ithink sometimes being able to

(19:04):
see somebody's process of likethis is how I initially reacted.
But here's what I know, andeven though I may not be all the
way there yet, it doesn't meanthat I've stepped off principle
or that I'm not or that I throwaway everything that I know to
be true.
And I think, you know, ourspiritual director is a great

(19:25):
example of that, of showinghimself, walking through living
life in the relative world thatwe live in and being, you know
I'd say I'm probably fiveminutes ahead, he's probably 10,
but still he's showing what itlooks like to be just 10 minutes
ahead and seeing a biggerpicture.

So back to it's Thanksgiving week and
you're either making thedecision who you're going to be
with or you know there's goingto be people there.
It doesn't even have to be theelection, you could just know
these are people that I don'tget along with, I don't agree
with, but we teach and liveoneness.
So how do we and I'm asking,just because I'm asking smart

(20:10):
people how could I think aboutthis in a way that is genuine,
that doesn't make me feel likeI'm just kind of like, okay, I'm
just going to have to put on agood face and pretend like I
like these people, even thoughmaybe I don't, maybe I don't
like the choices that peoplemade.
But we got to start somewherein having these conversations if

(20:33):
we're ever going to get back toa place where going back to
your point about how we're sodivided how can we be less that
if we don't have theseconversations?

Yeah, I think this has been the big
challenge that I've beenstruggling with over the last
week, if I'm being really honest, because on one hand, I believe
in love.
Only I understand that it's notnecessary that we all come with
beliefs and belief systems that, whether rooted in spiritual

(21:03):
truth or rooted in you know,some sort of childhood trauma or
whatever the case may be.
You know, you've been raised ina lot.
I've been raised in a long lineof Democrats.
So am I a Democrat because I'mreally a Democrat or am I
Democrat because I live inCalifornia and you know I come
from?
You know, when I was a kid Ithought, like you're Jewish, of

(21:24):
course you're a Democrat, likethat's just how it works, and
we're, you know, in this day andage I'm not sure that's so true
anymore, and so I can havecompassion and understanding for
where the divide comes from,and even can step out of
judgment about it.
But where I'm unclear is wheredoes my activism come in?
Where is?

(21:45):
Does my voice need to be lent?
It's clear that a bridge needsto be built, but does the bridge
get built by me just loving youwhile you are completely
unloving and doing and sayingunloving things and being
bigoted towards people that Ihold near and dear to my heart?

(22:05):
I don't.
It's a difficult thing.
I'm fortunate my Thanksgivingtable will be filled with very
like-minded people that I, thatthose conversations aren't going
to come up, you know.
And there's a fine line becauseI'm.
I believe that I can loveeveryone and also recognize that
not everybody gets to haveclose access to me, and that

(22:27):
both of those things can be trueand that I can be in a room
full of people and have love andcompassion for them.
And it doesn't necessarily meanthat I'm going to have dinner or
go to Starbucks with everysingle person in the room.
And so I can tell you that Ihaven't fully reconciled what is

(22:48):
mine to do yet or how, what ismy responsibility.
I know that.
You know I made a commitmentwhen I became a minister to live
the principles of new thought.
To live the principles of newthought, to live in spiritual
truth, to get to love only asquickly as possible, no matter

(23:10):
what, to believe that life isunfolding perfectly, no matter
what.
And it doesn't mean that Idon't ever step off principle.
I've just made a commitmentthat I get back there as quickly
as humanly possible.
So I know that it is possibleto show up at Thanksgiving and
be loving and to be kind, and Ido think that being in loving

(23:32):
and kind to my family and myfriends and the people that I
hold near and dear that are partof the LGBTQ community means
that I don't sit in a room withpeople who are saying horrific
things and just silently pretendlike it's not happening.
But I also know that beratingsomebody for being bigoted does

(23:54):
not make them less bigoted.

It's interesting.
Last night I was having aconversation with our spiritual
director about you know, know,thinking that in the science of
mind.
Holmes talks I think this isyou know, check me on this but
he talks about can you treat forsomeone who doesn't want to be
treated?
Is that ethical?
And I mean you can certainly doit, but it may not be ethical

(24:21):
to treat for someone who doesn'tdo it, but it may not be
ethical to treat for someone whodoesn't wish to receive that.
And maybe there's a parallelthere in a way that if someone
holds views that areantithetical to what you believe
, what I believe, maybe there'sright now I can love, but it
doesn't mean that I have to go.
It's my mission to changesomeone's mind.
If they don't want their mindchanged, then it's not my place

(24:45):
to try and do that.
Does that make sense?

Yeah, I think what I can treat for is my
greater understanding of whothey are.
In other words, everybody islove, everybody is this.
You know, the same infinitefield that I have access to is
the same infinite field you haveaccess to.
Infinite field that I haveaccess to is the same infinite
field you have access to.
The same perfection that I amis the same perfection that you

(25:12):
are, whether I'm behaving likeit or not, and so I can know
that not and take their behavioror take their the relative
whatever out of it.
I don't need to change, treatfor you to change your mind, but
I can treat to know that youare that loving presence, that
you are that creative energy,and I can treat for you to know
that too.
And that doesn't mean that youchange your beliefs or change

(25:35):
your mind.
That's just knowing the truthabout who you are, and that
truly is the place where mindscan be changed anyway, but not
saying that that's the intentionbehind it.
But I don't need you to changeyour mind.
I want each and every one of usto know who we are, and when
each and every one of us knowswho we are, minds won't need to

(25:57):
be changed because there won'tbe a divide.
There won't be.
Nobody would ever want to doanything that's hurtful to
another person if each of us waswalking around knowing who we
are.
So, do I need them to changetheir minds?
No, I think we all need tochange our hearts.

I love that.
Well, on that note, let me aska slightly more frivolous last
question about Thanksgiving.
You can only have one pie atyour table pumpkin, apple or
mincemeat.
Which do you choose?

Okay, I don't even know what a mincemeat
pie is, but is it meat?

No, well, it can be and I've had
that and it was shocking to me.
We actually I'll diverge for asecond while you're thinking of
it we went to someone's houseand they're like mincemeat and
I'm like, oh great, it's the onewith apples and or not apples,
but raisins and cinnamon andcloves and stuff.
So that's what I was expecting.
And we actually made it withdeer and I was horrified.

(26:54):
So no.
I'm talking about the or maybepecan pie.
But what's your necessity?

I just have to say, as you were talking
, I just saw a meme recentlythat said that would just
describe me to a T.
It said I finally learned tokeep my mouth shut.
Unfortunately, my face hassubtitles and so, as you were
talking, I'm like I'm not sayingthat sounds disgusting and vile
, but my face just anybodytuning in watching is going to

(27:23):
be like oh, I know exactly howshe feels about the idea of
having deer meat in pie.

It is.
It's horrible.
It's when you're expectingraisins and sweetness and you
get deer meat.
It's horrifying.

So hard.
No, on the minced meat no wayI'm not.
I mean, I should stay open tothe idea of trying it.
So if there's minced meat, itwould never happen at my
Thanksgiving table.
We don't have politicaldisagreements.
We also don't have meat in ourpie, but if it's available.
If somebody wants to send memincedat pie, your grandmother's
secret recipe I am open andwilling to try it.

(27:56):
But I'm guessing it won't be myfavorite.
I would probably.
So I feel like it's notThanksgiving without pumpkin pie
.
There's sort of a likespecialness to it.
But if I was going with myfavorite flavor of pie I'm not a
big pie eater, I'm not a bigsweet person I'd probably go
with apple.
There's something about warmspiced apples in the winter that

(28:19):
make me feel warm and toasty.

So maybe a small piece of each.

Yeah, I'll do that.

Okay, good, okay.
So I want to talk now aboutyour.
Before you got involved inministry, you kind of ended up
on a stage on a Sunday, havingoriginally been on a different
stage.
You had a career in stand-upcomedy.
I mean, I don't want to say itin the past tense because you
still bring that, but how wouldyou say being a performer,

(28:47):
having an understanding ofcomedy and how an audience
responds to things?
How has that informed you as aspeaker on a Sunday or in front
of a spiritual audience?

I mean, I think you know, it's kind of
when, as humans, we'remeaning-seeking missiles right,
we want to find meaning ineverything or we want to, like.
You know, when you look back atyour life, when you look at
your life in reverse, you can gooh, that step was leading to
this step that was leading tothat step.
There was always a performer inme.
I always knew that it was some,and I tried all these different

(29:20):
modalities and I felt like Ifelt the most, you know, it was
like I was an actress as a kid.
My grandfather was an actressthat had a lot of success, or an
actor not an actress, um, thathad a lot of success.
And so I thought I wanted to bean actress and I realized, oh,
I don't really enjoy speakingother people's words, like I had

(29:41):
a hard time.
Somebody else wrote somethingand I was supposed to, like, put
it on and wear it, and I wasn'tvery good at it.
And then I found myself atSecond City and started doing
improv, where I got to be thecreator of the content, you know
, in conjunction with somebodyelse, and I loved it.

(30:01):
I was like, oh, this is fun, itwas just like playing, and I
really enjoyed it.
I didn't know where it wasleading, I just it was like my
dad would tell people, whileeverybody else was going to real
college, I went to clowncollege because I, just like you
know, I loved it and a bunch ofpeople there were stand up
comics.
They were, you know, goingdoing the comedy clubs and they

(30:21):
were like you're funny, youshould do this with me.
And I was in an acting class.
By the way, that was theteacher, was a science of mind
teacher.

Oh, wow .

I knew and I was like it went
completely over my head sheended every class with and so it
is, and I was like it didn't.
But I started going to comedyclubs and I loved it.
I just I loved everything aboutperforming, except I didn't
love late nights.
I didn't love, you know, beingat a seedy bar in LA and then

(30:52):
walking to my car by myself atyou know one o'clock in the
morning with a bunch of drunkpeople who had just seen me on
stage and so it wasn't.
It was like this weird thingwhere it was like I'm a
sheltered girl from the suburbsbut I really, like you know,
just expressing myself on astage.
And then at some point Istarted my science of mind

(31:14):
studies and I found thisteaching and I remember early on
, like, relatively I was not,I'm kind of subscribed to the.
I don't want to be the memberof any club that would have me
Like I'm not a joiner.

I don't want the old broad show joke.

Yeah, I sat in the back of the room and
I remember sitting on a Sundayand hearing this voice inside
saying I want to be a ministersomeday, and then I was like I
don't know who the heck saidthat that was really stupid,
that's never going to happen,and just like, didn't even think
about it again.
But as I look back because youcan kind of study your life it's

(31:50):
like I was always paving theway to be a minister.
That this deep longing tounderstand people and the
universe and to understandmyself better, and this desire
to I mean I don't know if beinga comedian was inspiring, but
this desire to like entertainand to connect with people in a

(32:12):
bigger way sort of were alwaysinherently in me, and so it sort
of makes perfect sense to menow that both of those things
were always there.
They were just sort of waitingin the quantum field for this
moment to converge into who Iwas always supposed to be.
If that makes sense, yeah itdoes If.

I came to Okay yeah does.

Now I get to use all of it together
and it doesn't feel like anypiece is missing, if that makes
sense.

If I came to you and said that I was
thinking about taking an actingclass or taking improv as a
minister, could you see thebenefit?
Or what would you see as abenefit?
Now, what might I learn fromthat experience that you think
would benefit someone as aspeaker who has a more
traditional minister role?

Well, I think that acting classes force
you to find your ownauthenticity right.
It's not just pretending to bea character, it's really
identifying something inside ofyou that connects with it.
And then, coming from thatplace and I think a lot of
ministers and I certainly it wasthe case when I was a new
minister I felt like, okay, nowI'm being a minister and so I'm

(33:30):
going to step out on the stageand I need to inspire and
enlighten you with my what anamazing minister I am.
And what people are reallylooking for is authenticity.
What they really want to see ishow do you look at the world,
how do you walk throughsomething like an election, and
what is the consciousness thatyou go through?
How does it look like when lifehappens in your life and how do

(33:55):
you navigate it?
And so I think that theauthenticity that is required in
being an actor is also verymuch required in being a
minister presence.
I mean, how many people have amate?
They're brilliant, they haveamazing messages, they're super
smart, they've got all thecomponents and they get up and

(34:18):
they're kind of boring andyou're like oh man, you know
like this isn't yet when youstep into the Global Truth
Center.
It's not your grandmother'schurch.
You know you walk in and it'slike, oh, it's like a broad.
You know there's Broadway levelperformances and the ministers
are funny and they're engagingand they're giving of who they

(34:38):
actually are, versus someelevated version of who they'd
like you to see them as.
And so I definitely thinkanybody who's going to be in
front of a stage if you wantpeople to not fall asleep and to
actually be engaged in theexperience could benefit from
some performance training forsure.

Yeah, it's interesting that, as you
were saying that, I was thinkingof an experience both you and I
had at a recent conferencewhere one of my classmates went
up and did a standup act and youand I both were just amazed
because it was the mostauthentic we had seen him speak
Like he was really leaning intowho he was and you could see

(35:18):
there was a joy that he had, ajoy the audience had completely
unexpected.
But you kind of go that all canthink I need to speak the way I
think a minister sounds like,or what they talk about or what

(35:44):
they care about, and in thatmoment he discovered something
truly authentic about him.

That was wonderful.
Well, yeah, because I mean,here's the truth.
I'm not for everyone.
I am often irreverent.
I can find the funny inanything.
I you know my process is often,you know, my first thought was
like I hate everybody and thenlike, oh no, who am I really
inside?
And you know the process, oryou know whatever the case may

(36:08):
be.
But like some people might lookat me and think that's a
minister.
I mean, you know, I think forso long I fought being a
minister because I didn't knowany ministers that were like me
and I thought, you know that Ididn't know how to honor who I
was and also be in thisleadership space of spirituality

(36:30):
.
And it was only when Irecognized that I could only do
it the way that is unique to meand that some people are going
to find that amazing and flockto my classes and want to tune
in and hear what I have to say.
And other people are going tobe like, oh my gosh, she's
irreverent.
Like I think I heard her sayyou know about a four letter

(36:51):
word and I'm not going to be forthem and that's okay, but I
can't do my best work out in theworld if I'm not being
authentic to who I am.
And so, yeah, I mean I thinkwhen we saw him sort of lean
into exactly who he is, that's Imean.
Think about it in any capacity.

(37:12):
It's not just a minister, it'snot just a leader.
When you see somebody justbeing their authentic, I mean
even when you see like a kidtwirling in the grocery store,
you can't help but smile andfeel elevated by it because
they're just authentically beingwho they are.
And I think it's refreshing ina world where so many of us feel
like we're supposed to besomething other than who we are

(37:37):
I'm supposed to have.
You know, I spent so much of mylife thinking that everybody
got a handbook to life that Ijust wasn't given, like
everybody else seemed to knowwhat they were doing and I was
winging it.
And then when you realize likeoh, everybody's winging it, like
so all I really have is my ownauthentic.
I get to wing it in my ownglorious way.
And if I can share that and itinspires somebody else or it

(38:01):
helps somebody else, thenawesome.
And then, if I'm not for you,there's going to be another
minister on another channel onanother Sunday.

Yeah, you have talked about, you're
teaching a practitioner classnow, and when you went through
your practitioner journey andyour ministerial journey, you
had a couple of times where youquite definitively were like I'm
done with this.

This is not for me as a teacher now who

(38:45):
may have students that arecoming to you that are saying
not for me, how do you, as ateacher, address and try and
understand why someone maybe isat that point in their
practitioner or theirministerial journey?
You know, it's funny.
I remember I don't remember atwhat point in my studies, but at
some point in my studies wewere talking about archetypes
and we were going through andtrying to figure out which of
the archetypes we identifiedwith and I suddenly it hit me
like, oh, I'm the reluctant heroI had.
You know, I, I don't want, Ididn't, didn't set out to be a

(39:07):
minister, I didn't set out to bea practitioner.
Not that I'm calling myself ahero, but it's this idea of you
know, there's a calling for you.
Nope, not my calling.
Like, oh, you know, stand inthe front of the room.
Nope, I'm good in the back,like I.
Just, you know, clearly I'malways looking for an adult.
Where's the adult?
Because I'm not the adult.

(39:28):
And so part of the journey wasthat, with each class when I
went into practitioner studies,that with each class when I went
into practitioner studies, myteacher asked me so why do you
want to be a practitioner?
And I said I don't, I just wantto keep studying, I want to
keep growing.
I have no desire to, you know,use this in any capacity other
than to change my own life.

(39:48):
And he was like, okay, great,and let me into practitioner
studies.
So when it came time forministerial because eventually,
like you've taken all theclasses, like what's next?
When I got to ministerial, hesaid, okay, why do you want to
be a minister?
I said, oh, I don't, I have nodesire to be a minister, I don't
want to do this for anybodyelse, I just want to keep
growing and studying, and mylife is getting so good, I just

(40:09):
want to keep letting my life getbetter and better.
And so I think that some of therunning away was there was
something in me I was alwaysgoing towards that.
You know, even when I was acomedian or when I was in
practitioner, whatever, I wasalways going towards this higher
version of myself and thishigher calling of myself that I

(40:32):
didn't always know that's what Iwas running towards.
And so when it got hard, it waslike, well, I don't want to do
this anyway, so I'm just gonna,you know, I'm just gonna bone
out, I'm not going to do this.
And when and when I wasconfronting.
You know, the whole first yearof practitioner is all about how
life got to be this way, and soit's all about digging up

(40:53):
beliefs and figuring out, likeyou know, the good and the bad
and the ugly.
And when I was confronted withsome stuff, I was like, oh, I
don't, like I don't need thiscrap, I gotta go because I don't
want to do this anyway.
And then I think there was stillthat inside, you know there's.
You know, even when you want toconvince yourself otherwise,
and even when you have thosemoments, there's still that

(41:15):
still quiet voice that's sayingthere's something for you here,
keep going.
Know how to reconcile acomedian being a minister I

(41:37):
didn't know how to reconcile,you know, my irreverence with
being somebody who would inspirepeople on a Sunday, but I think
he saw it in me before I saw itin me, and so it helps.
And so the students I have, youknow I just am like you're
going to be confronted, it'sgoing to suck sometimes, but I
promise what's on the other sideis worth it.
So just stick it out or don't,because that's okay too.

And you had a number well, not a number
, but you had a couple instanceswhere you had doubt about
whether you should continue andat a certain point, your teacher
just said okay, bye, If that'sgood.
How did that feel in thatmoment?
Because you, up to that point,if that's good.
How did that feel in thatmoment?
Because, up to that point, youhad been used to being talked
into coming back.
But in that moment, whetherjust he was tired or whatever,

(42:22):
it was just like okay, that'sfine.
How did you see that moment,different than the other times
when you had hesitancy aboutcontinuing?

I think there were two pivotal moments
in my ministerial journey thatsort of ultimately got me
through to the end.
One was in the middle ofministerial my dad died and
suddenly I that life is eternaland that, beyond this experience
and even though I alwaysbelieved that, I always knew

(42:59):
that to be true his actual lackof presence like him physically
not being here was so painfulthat anytime somebody would say
life is eternal or say anythingto try to make me feel better, I
just kind of wanted to punchhim in the face Like I just
wasn't.
I just I couldn't.
My skin was on fire and I'dnever experienced pain like that

(43:21):
.
And that was one of the timesthat I tried to run and my
teacher said to me you know,it's okay to question your
beliefs.
Your belief is stronger.
If it can't hold up toquestioning and putting it to
the test, then it's not rootedin anything real and true.
And so I believe that yourbelief is big enough to question

(43:45):
it and to not need to believeit right now.
But don't let go of the onlything that might be tethering
you to the truth of who you are,and so show up and be pissed
off.
Show up and don't believe thatlife is eternal.
Show up and have an attitudewhatever, but just don't leave

(44:06):
right now in this vulnerablestate.
And so and I did, and I reallythat was a time that I just
cracked wide open.
I was really like it was thefirst time I started to
experience myself as vulnerableand experience myself as
somebody.
And so when I, the next timethat something ticked me off, or

(44:27):
you know, you fast forward afew months, I don't know how
many times I tried to quit.
It was a lot.
When I tried to quit, it wasthe first time that my teacher
just didn't try to chase me.
He was like, okay, bye.
And I was like, and I thinkthere was that thing inside of
me that that that me that knewwho I was all along.
That was like no, I'm supposedto be here, you're not going to
chase me, screw you Like, I'llshow you, like.

(44:50):
And.
But I think what it was aboutwas, up until that point, I
really needed him to be mycheerleader.
I needed, really needed him totell me that I belonged, because
I wasn't really sure that I didand I didn't really know.
I couldn't reconcile thecomedian and the minister or the
journey in between, and it wasthe first time that I had to

(45:12):
really own that this wassomething that I was doing for
me that I wanted because it wasa cop out, to say somebody else
had been like dragging me alongall the way.
And that was the last time Ithreatened to quit because he
didn't try to chase me and Iactually called him.
I'm like you're not going tochase me, like what's wrong with
you.
And he was like I'm done,you're exhausting, I'm done.

(45:35):
And I was like that's part ofmy charm.
So here I am.

Well, you mentioned your stand-up
career and I also want to talkabout.
You have a unique perspectiveon our teaching because you are
also primarily, an extremelysuccessful businesswoman.
You work in a company where youmanage teams.
You're very successful in thatand I know you have a passion

(46:04):
for wanting to take thisteaching and bring it to the
managerial world and sort of tryand bring that ethic to people
who are managing teams, managingcompanies.
What do you see as theopportunity there to bring this
teaching into the business world?

You know it's interesting, when I was a
minister I wrote my thesis onthe consciousness of corporate
America and I wasn't reallynecessarily prior to that
interested in merging the twoworlds.
I've always lived, I lived veryseparately.
In merging the two worlds, I'vealways lived, I lived very
separately.
I had my nine to five.
They crossed over because myconsciousness is the

(46:45):
consciousness I lead with, so itwas spilling over into the way
that I led, but I'd never reallytaken much time to analyze it
and, like my employees didn'tknow that, you know, I was a
minister on Sundays until theyfound me online one day and I
was like, oh shoot, I am foundout.
And then, you know, I kind ofkept my work life out.
It was just very I'm.
You know, I was a mom when Iwas a mom and I was a leader

(47:05):
when I.
You know whatever and so, butit was interesting, I was at the
last company that I worked forhad some very dysfunctional
leadership.
I worked for a company that justwas.
You know, I work for a greatcompany now, but I worked for a
company that had very poorleadership and the business was

(47:26):
not doing well.
And I build, I build companieswithin companies and then run
the company that I built so it'ssort of a sub company and a
larger company and I realizedthe company that I had built was
thriving, the culture that wehad was thriving, that we were
connected, that I had a teamthat everybody had each other's
backs and really cared and waspassionate, and we were

(47:49):
profitable.
And the company at large wasnot.
And the company at large was,you know, not, and I it really
started.
I was like, oh, because theseprinciples are applied in all
our and how I chose to lead.
I chose to lead with compassion, I chose to lead with
connection, I chose to lead witha greater good and a

(48:12):
consciousness of anything ispossible and supporting one
another and all of those things.
And so it was the first timethat I started to recognize like
, oh, like there's a gap in theleadership space.
I think you assume you knowmost people, most managers.
If you're really good at beinga worker bee and you rise the
ranks, eventually the only pathfor you is to become a manager,

(48:36):
and so there's a lot of peoplewho are really great individual
contributors and really crappymanagers that end up in these
leadership positions and onceyou arrive there, they expect
that you already know how to doit.
They expect that you alreadyknow how to rally troops and get
them to all be marching in thesame formation and it's just,
it's a fallacy.

(48:56):
And so you get a lot ofimposter syndrome and people
walking around pretending likethey know what they're doing and
doing a lot of damage to theirown, to their team and to the
morale and all that stuff.
And so it's kind of been mypassion to infuse these
principles into leadership.

(49:17):
I don't tell my team they're Godand we don't talk about the
quantum field and consciousnessall that much Although it's
funny because a lot of them,once they found me online,
started watching my Sunday talksand whatever but I just think
that there's a fallacy, that Ithink being a leader or being a

(49:41):
manager is a calling, but it'salso having the skills necessary
, and most people have the bestof intentions.
They just don't know how to doit.

Yeah, it does seem.
I'm thinking back to do youremember when you would fly on
an airplane and they had thein-flight magazines and in the
back of the magazine there'dalways be like these three or
four page ad spreads forcompanies that did training,
either like sales training ormanager training?
And I feel like when you weresaying that that makes such
sense that there's you could bea worker, be an employee, and as

(50:14):
you rise up you get to thatlevel where now you're a manager
.
But there was nowhere along theway that trained you how to do
that, how to bring thatsensibility where you could
actually be a decent manager.
So it feels like there is a lotof upside there for what you're
talking about.

Well, and most managers were trained.
The only example they have isthe managers that they've had.
And how many people, honestly,there are people.
There are great managers outthere, there are great leaders
out there.
I don't mean to say thateverybody across the board is
bad at it, but how many?
Most people have had badmanagers?
Most people are hard pressed toidentify or they have, like

(50:54):
that, one manager that they hadin their career and you know.
But most, and it's not becausethey're bad people, it's not
because they have the intentionof like how can I make your life
miserable today?
It's, you know, it tricklesdown from the top and you know,
working, especially in thecorporate world, feels like

(51:16):
you're in a pressure cooker mostof the time.
Like you know, when I'mrecruiting, I tell people all
the time like I can't make theactual job suck less right, like
there's a lot of elements oflike the day-to-day when you're
dealing with people and you'redealing with whatever, like that
part's gonna suck.
What I can do is create anenvironment of people who who

(51:40):
care about each other and andgood communication and the
ability to.
You know, can I just tell youI'm having a bad day to day kind
of an environment that makesthe job suck less.
Right Not to say that our jobssuck, but I'm just saying like
not every day is bliss when yougo to work.

It's so funny you say that because a
couple of weeks ago I startedre-watching some episodes of the
West Wing the TV show from like20 years ago and obviously it's
set in the White House but oneof the things that stood out to
me most was this was anenvironment, a show that
demonstrated that all of thesepeople cared about each other.

(52:23):
I mean, there were specificthings where, more important
than any of the things that weregoing on in the world or the
political crises they weredealing with, there were
personal issues and itdemonstrated like I care about
you, you're my friend, and I waslike, oh my gosh, that we so
miss that feeling of being in acommunity of people that care

(52:45):
about us.

Well, if your primary premise is oneness
which it is in spiritualcircles, right that we're all
one If you can apply thatprinciple to everything your
team at work or to a classroom,or to wherever you are first of
all, I create.

(53:07):
Everybody feels valued,everybody feels important,
everybody feels central,everybody feels supported and
taken care of Then now, whatgreat work can we go out and do?
Yes, numbers are important,Data is important, the bottom
line profits are important.
But so often we're focused onthe profits, we're focused on

(53:28):
all this stuff out there, and sothe fear of not having it means
there's like backbiting and Ineed to get ahead.
So who do I?
You know you start viewingeverybody else's potentially,
you know, could hold you backfrom getting what you're after,
what you're looking for.
That's how most environmentsoperate is sort of from the

(53:50):
relative to you know, and thenyou're like why is our team so
dysfunctional?
Whereas if you start withoneness and you start from, the
principle of everybody here isvalued.
Everybody's opinions matter,your voice matters, we care.
If you go out, if you have totake time off, somebody else is
going to step in and take careof what needs to be taken care

(54:10):
of, Just like if I go out.
You know, I just took a twomonth leave.
My team just rallied and we'rehappy to do it.
They were grateful and happy tohave the opportunity.
The work was hard, it's noteasy.
They were happy to do itbecause they cared about me as a
person and wanted to make surethat I didn't have to worry
about it.
And then profits tend to takecare of themselves.

(54:33):
Not to say that I don't look atthe number.
I mean I promise, boss, ifyou're watching, I do look at
the numbers and I'm watching myP&L very closely.
But when you work from the bigout, then it's like we are going
to be profitable, we are goingto put out our best work.
We do take care.
You know happy employees makefor happy customers.

(54:54):
We can't just expect thateverything.
I'll be happy when my customersbehave the way they're supposed
to be and it's like well, didyou answer the phone with a
smile?
Because they can hear that theycan hear a smile.

So I love that.
Well, I want to move into thenew thought lightning round, so
I'm going to just ask you abunch of quick questions,
whatever comes to mind yes or no, or a quick answer and then, if
there's anything, we want todive into deeper.
So you ready?
Yeah, okay.
So have you ever manifested aparking spot or first-class
upgrade using science of mind?

Okay, can I make it not a lightning
round and answer really likejust Please?

Yes, okay.

So only because just today something
amazing happened.
That's not quite a parking spotor a first-class upgrade.
Yes, I have.
I've not gotten a first-classupgrade, I don't know what's
about, but I have gotten aparking spot.
But so my son is turning 16 ina couple of weeks and we're
buying him a car and my husbandI believe that I'm just life
unfolds perfectly and I'm goingto manifest.

(55:54):
My husband believes that if heworries hard enough about things
, that it'll all work out Right.
And so we we always have thisjoke I'll say see, I manifested
that, and he'll go no, I worriedextra hard about that.
And so we have this like cutelittle thing going on.
So we're buying my son a car andyou know, the car that we're

(56:14):
looking at is a lot more moneythan what my husband was
anticipating we would.
We would be paying for it, andso he's been worrying extra hard
about the fact that, like it'sa big expense coming up and I'm
just, like you know, doing mything.
So my accountant, when our taxdeadline came up, was he said to

(56:36):
us you're getting, I'minundated like everybody, got us
our paperwork at the 11th hour.
You're getting a refund.
So can it?
Do you mind if I wait to doyour tax return so that I can
get the people that owe inbefore the deadline.
And we were like it's fine, nomatter.
So today, so yesterday, we wentand looked at the car.
The car was about $3,000 morethan what we originally the top

(57:00):
end of what we were expecting topay for the car and I was like
I'm just refused to worry aboutit.
I'm sure my husband went to bedworried extra hard.
We got a call from ouraccountant today that our tax
return's done, he's ready for usto sign it.
And my husband called me.
He's like I don't know how youdo this.
And I said what did I do?
The tax refund is the exactamount of the car that we're

(57:26):
buying for my son, like almostto the penny, the exact amount
of the refund.
So not a parking space and alittle longer than a lightning
round story.
But it just happened thismorning.

So I'd say that's way better than a
parking space, because now youpaid for the car that's going to
go in the parking space.

Right yeah, I love it.
I didn't just manifest aparking space, I manifested the
car to go in it.

I love it.

I love it.

Well, mic drop on that.
What's the most important partof your morning spiritual
practice?

The most important part, honestly, is I
have stopped picking up my cellphone.
The first thing I was I haveblocked out news.
I don't watch the news, I don'twatch the talking heads.
I stopped doing that when myson was born to almost 16 years
ago, because I was starting toget afraid to leave my house,

(58:19):
and so I've had that blackout inmy life for a long time.
But the first thing I would dowhen I would wake up is pick up
my cell phone and I would go tothe news because I don't want to
be uninformed.
So I still get my news, I justfilter the way that I get it and
whatever, and so I or socialmedia.
So what that would really do is,my eyes opened and, before my

(58:42):
feet even hit the ground, I wasdetermining whether I was going
to have a good day or a bad daybased on the device that was in
my hand.
And so, yes, I meditate, yes, Iread spiritual books, I go for
nature walks.
There's a lot that I have.
That's a part of my spiritualpractice.
But the number one thing that Ihave done is that I do not pick
up my cell phone until afterI'm ready for the day and ready

(59:06):
to face the day with theconsciousness that I want to
face the day.
And then, because if I pick upbad news on my phone and I
haven't decided I haven'tconsciously decided how my day
is going to go and who I'mshowing up as knowing who I am,
then I'm subject to the whims ofwhatever's in my little device.

(59:27):
But when I have made aconscious decision, I've decided
to know who I am today, I'vedecided that I am a badass that
can take on the world, and then,you know, put on some makeup
and an outfit that goes alongwith that attitude, and then I
pick up the device.
The same information can beviewed very differently.
So, number one spiritualpractice I don't touch my cell

(59:51):
phone until I'm ready to startmy day, leave the phone where it
is.

I love that.
That's a great piece of advice.
Yeah, and I find I'm doing thatas well.
I'm well into meditation andreading and journaling.
Before I even think about whatI want is going on in the world
and knowing that, as you thinkback to all the authors that
you've read, either as a student, as a teacher Raymond Charles,

(01:00:14):
barker, holmes, emerson, joeDispenza who do you find that
you go back to and go?
You know what I really?
That's a book I could read overand over.

Rev. Dr. Tiffani Milne (01:00:25):
Joe Dispenza's Breaking the Habit of
being Yourself.
For me, it was the first bookthat took what I had been
studying in science and mindsand put it in terms where I
didn't have to like do mentalgymnastics to kind of like
really understand.
I didn't have to.
It's written in the way wespeak today, so I don't have to
kind of like really understand.
I didn't have to.
It's written in the way wespeak today, so I don't have to

(01:00:47):
kind of and um and put sciencebehind what Ernest Holmes and
Thomas Troward and Emerson weresaying all those years ago.
Um, and and backs it up withscience.
And so for me it was the firstbook where I was like, oh,
that's what's happening.
And then it enabled me to feelempowered to really make the

(01:01:08):
changes and transform.
Not that those other authorsdidn't have a huge impact and
that I didn't get it then, butbreaking the habit of being
yourself was the first timewhere I really felt like, oh,
and I have the power to dosomething about this.

Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (01:01:22):
Is that the book also where he talks
about you know, like meditatetwo hours a day or something?
Is that?
Did you ever go to that levelwhere some of his meditations
did that turn out to be helpfulfor you?
Or?

The book .
Yes, it is very meditationheavy.
It's.
It's all about rewiring andyour neural pathways and all
that stuff.
His meditations are an acquiredtaste for me, that's true, and
can be a little bit long, Ithink.
Sometimes it's like you know,sometimes I'd love to have two

(01:01:55):
hours a day to sit down andmeditate Quite honestly, I'm a
mom, I run a you know, run abusiness.
I am a minister, like ain't,nobody got time for that.
So when I have the luxury ofdoing that which isn't very
often great, but most of thetime my meditations are, you
know, 15 minutes max, maybe 30.

Yeah, I do TM and it's about like 20 is
what they recommend and eventhat I'm like I, I, I always
have some reason where I'm like20 minutes.
That's insane.
I don't have that much time,but it's so valuable when I can
do it.
I know that.

I have a hard time sitting still, to be
honest with you, like sometimesI can really, and a lot of times
I can drop in and then I can, Ican get there pretty quickly,
like it's a practice, it's amuscle that if you keep um, but
my brain goes a million miles aminute and I often I will spend
a lot of meditation going likemy skin is on fire, like is it

(01:02:48):
has it been five minutes andit's like it's been five seconds
, like.
So a lot of times what I'll dois walking meditations.
I find when I'm out in nature Ireally start to understand how
the world works.
You know I can go gosh, thereseems to be so much upheaval and
chaos and we had an electionand yet the mountains are still
the mountains and the birds arestill the birds and the trees

(01:03:09):
are still the trees.
And it gives me greatperspective and I'm fortunate to
live, you know, in a gorgeoussuburb with, you know, sunshine
most days of the year, and so Iwill often, rather than forcing
myself to sit down and torturingmyself which I do do and do
regularly I'll go out on naturewalks and just allow my mind to

(01:03:34):
just let go.
I think for me letting go iswhat I always need to remember,
and the thing that I'm alwayssearching for, anytime I'm in
meditation or in a spiritual, iswhat I always need to remember,
and the thing that I'm alwayssearching for, anytime I'm in
meditation or in a spiritualpractice, is what do I need to
just let go of and allow?
Um, because I think everythingis inherently perfect.

(01:03:56):
It's just what I want.
Like I want to get myfingerprints all over it and I
want to fix it and I want tomake it different now and then.
When I look at the it and Iwant to make it different now
and then.
When I look at the mountains,I'm like they were here long
before me and they'll probablybe here long after me and all is
fundamentally well.

I love that.
All right You're.
You've just come back from yournature walk, You're going to
have a dinner party and you caninvite one of these people to
your dinner party.
Who's it going to be?
Ernest Holmes, Ralph Waldo,Emerson Gandhi or Oprah?
Who's coming to dinner?

Oprah.

Okay.

Oprah, you know, one of the things that
I really want more thananything is to bring you know,
we live in such a secular worldand we live in a world where
religions are.
You know, I mean the a secularworld, and we live in a world
where religions are.
You know, I mean the Bible isone of the most divisive books
ever written, like, I hate tosay, and it's beautiful and it's
got so much truth in it, butit's really created just so much

(01:04:57):
disruption.
And so, for me, bringing theteachings of Jesus and Ernest
Holmes and Emerson and Gandhiand all of these people into a
relatable today world is whatI'm passionate about.
It's what you know.
I'd much rather sit and have aconversation with agnostics and

(01:05:18):
atheists about what we have incommon than you know.
Not that I don't want to sitwith a Christian and have a
conversation, but I just.
There's a richness to living inthe world that we live in today
, with technology and scienceand news too close to access

(01:05:38):
first thing in the morning, andso when I look at somebody like
Oprah, I really recognize her asat the forefront of this
teaching, without ever having tomention that it's a teaching or
a philosophy or a religion, andthat, to me, is what I'm
passionate about is how do Imake this real world relatable
today?
You know, how can I?

(01:05:59):
Having conversations with my 16year old and his friends and
and still seeming cool, whilealso having, you know, being
called reverend um is what I'mpassionate about, and so I feel
like I'd want to justcollaborate with Oprah and be
like how do I be you when I growup, um, or how can I?
You know, how can I take whatyou've done and continue to

(01:06:20):
expand on it?

Yeah, oprah, great.
Okay, I love it.

Uh, invite me over if you're having
Oprah to dinner.

Yes, she doesn't live that far from
me, so you know who knows, justsay when you're on your way, you
know, driving on the one-on-onepast thousand Oaks, uh, from,
from Montecito, just stop byI'll, I'll feed you.

Maybe she'll watch this podcast and
she'll be like I need tointerview Dr Thor and Tiffany.

You know what?
That's a good mental equivalentto have, because there are
people that have had careerswhere they say that Oprah's like
this is my new favorite thoughtleader.
So fingers crossed.

I did get a giant tax return.
I got my car for the parkingspot, so maybe dinner with.
Oprah is next on the docket.

I don't know, it could be, it could be.
Well, my last question I wantto talk about so you've taken
classes in person, you've takenclasses on Zoom, you've had
everything in between, you'vespoken on Sunday.
We've all had these differentexperiences.

(01:07:28):
As you think about, like if youwere going to design a
spiritual center from the groundup and everything is blue sky,
it can be whatever you want, notthat you have to design the

(01:07:50):
whole thing, but what's one ortwo things that you would say
are sort of non-negotiablethings that would be in your
Blue Sky Spiritual Center?

Well, I think that the one thing that I
know is that people wantcommunity churches and people
are coming in.
You know it's zoomed.
Should it be online?
Should it be is?
There's nothing that beatswalking into a room full of
people that are happy to seeyour face and having that
connection.
And when I take a class online,as great as they, it's great.
I love that I can have people,you know, I have people in my,

(01:08:18):
you know, in my practitionerclass that are, you know, clear
on the other side of the countryand and I love that, and I and
I definitely love that the worldis getting smaller, as it feels
like it's getting bigger.
But nothing beats all being ina classroom with a like group of
like-minded people, just oreven not like-minded people like

(01:08:40):
debating and having thatconversation.
And so I think that figuringout how to create sort of keep
that community alive and notlosing the essence of what makes
it special as we continue togrow and expand out is a key
component.

(01:09:00):
I think that that classes andtransformation is, you know, I
always say the magic happens inthe classroom.
Sundays are great, it's greatto be inspired.
Sundays are what I keep showingup, because it keeps me
tethered to these principles, itkeeps me in the community, it
keeps me from straying too far.
Straying too far?

(01:09:24):
You know, I joke that, like on,when I walk out on Sunday, I'm
like, oh, love only, and I knowwho I am and I know who you are,
until somebody cuts me off onthe freeway and then, you know,
it's like am I going to stay inthat energy or am I going to
flip the bird?
You know I'm always at choice.
I don't give the bird anymore,um, but, but you know what I
mean.
And so so, continuing to stayin that.
And so I think that my biggestconcern is that, as we start to

(01:09:47):
say that people aren't fillingseats, as much is that what
we're missing is where peopleare, and where people are is
they're hungry for thisinformation, they're hungry for
transformation, they want to bein classes, they want to be in
workshops, they want to be withpeople.
You know, I was interviewingsomebody for work I'm hiring,
and I was interviewing somebodywho's going to a Tony.
She's like I can't start for acouple of weeks because I'm

(01:10:09):
going to a Tony Robbins thing.
It's on my bucket list and I'mthinking, gosh, you know, and we
started talking about it andshe, you know, probably go
Google me and find me online andfind my talks, talks.
But I'm like we're saying thesame thing.
Tony Robbins is saying we'resaying the same thing, joe
Dispenza is saying we're sayingthe same thing.
The Secret was saying why arepeople looking for it out there?

(01:10:30):
Because people, religion hasreally soured people's idea of
what it means to show up on aSunday.
So how do we show ourselves aswe are, that we are not telling
you how to live, or you knowgiving there's no dogma here and
finding our identity.
On that, I think we'llorganically find the right
balance between having thecommunity and also having a more

(01:10:53):
global reach.

Yeah Well, I will let that be the
last word.
Reverend Dr Tiffany Milne,thank you so much for being in
this conversation with me today.
I really loved it.

Thank you.
This was so much fun.
I always love hanging out withyou, so this was like.

I agree .

Fun conversation.

All right, take care, thank you.
Bye.
Thank you for joining me forthis inspiring conversation with
Reverend Dr Tiffany Milne.
I hope that her honesty, wisdomand insight spark something
meaningful for you, whether it'sa new way of thinking about
leadership, navigatingchallenges or simply showing up
authentically in your own life.

(01:11:34):
If you enjoyed this episode,please make sure to subscribe to
the All Revved Up podcast.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, and if you found value in
today's conversation, I'd lovefor you to leave a review.
It helps others discover theshow and join our community of
spiritual leaders.
I'll see you next time.

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