December 9, 2024 • 45 mins
In this episode, Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren sits down with Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer to explore his journey from an unexpected spiritual void to becoming a New Thought minister.
Rev. Dr. Overholtzer shares his personal story of rediscovery, reflecting on his roots in Christian Science, a 20-year break from spirituality, and the profound experiences that reignited his purpose.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into how spiritual principles can influence everyday life and even professional careers. Rev. Dr. Overholtzer discusses merging his design career with his ministerial work, finding gratitude amidst challenges, and cultivating spiritual balance. He also provides thoughtful perspectives on key New Thought principles, such as the law of cause and effect, the divinity of humanity, and why “everything is unfolding perfectly.”
The episode concludes with a lighthearted lightning round where Rev. Dr. Overholtzer shares his favorite spiritual metaphors, dream career aspirations, and reflections on creating a sanctuary both in life and in the home.
Key Topics Discussed:
- Rev. Dr. Overholtzer’s spiritual journey: from Christian Science roots to New Thought ministry.
- The importance of finding and using your voice in unexpected ways.
- How Science of Mind principles apply to professional life and challenging clients.
- Exploring the intersections of design, beauty, and spirituality.
- Addressing common questions about New Thought philosophy, including balancing spiritual truths with practical realities.
- Embracing the evolution of New Thought centers and moving beyond traditional constructs.
Takeaways for Listeners:
Rev. Dr. Overholtzer reminds us that the spiritual path is not always linear but unfolds as we take each step forward. His message encourages us to embrace our unique voice, find balance in life’s demands, and integrate spiritual principles into every aspect of our lives.
Thanks for Listening!
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Namaste.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (00:07):
Welcome everyone.
This is Rev Dr Thor Chalgren.
On today's episode of AllRevved Up, my guest is Rev Dr
Eric Overholzer, a New Thoughtminister whose journey to
becoming a minister is anythingbut conventional.
Eric grew up in Christianscience, left organized
spirituality for over 20 yearsand then rediscovered his path
(00:28):
by taking one small step afteranother.
His story is a reminder thatlife often calls us in ways we
don't expect.
In our conversation, ericshares how he learned to use his
voice in meaningful ways, notjust in ministry, but also in
his career as a designer.
He revealed how he helpsclients shift their focus from
(00:50):
stress to gratitude, which gotme thinking about how much our
perspective shapes every part ofour lives.
We also dove into some bigquestions, like how new thought
principles can help usunderstand life's challenges,
whether they're personalstruggles like a health
diagnosis, or even historicalevents that may shake our faith
(01:12):
in the idea that life isunfolding perfectly.
Eric's perspective gave me newways to consider these teachings
in my own life.
And finally, we explored thefuture of New Thought and Eric's
vision of spiritual centersevolving beyond their
traditional boundaries to meetthe changing needs of the world.
His insights left me bothinspired and challenged to think
(01:35):
about what's next for all of us.
Here now is my interview withReverend Dr Eric Overholzer.
Eric Overholzer, dr EricOverholzer, welcome to the show
today.
How are you?
I'm doing.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (01:51):
great Thanks for having me.
How are you?
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (02:00):
I'm good.
Yeah, it's great.
I'm super excited to have youon the show today.
I want to start with your sortof background and your history.
Tell me about your journey tobecome a New Thought minister.
Was it kind of a straight pathfrom foundational classes to
practitioner to minister?
Like when you started thisjourney, did you know that it
would end up with you beingReverend Eric?
Or tell me what was yourjourney and experience like
(02:21):
getting to where you are now?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (02:23):
It's a great question.
I never anticipated or plannedto become a minister.
It was a path that just kind ofpresented itself.
I just took the next step andthe next step and the next step.
But if I really look back, it'snot surprising.
I grew up in metaphysics.
I grew up going to Sundayschool, to Christian science
Sunday school.
(02:44):
That was a root foundation ofmine and for many different
reasons I left that path, leftthat life, and then I went into
a big void.
So in that void of probably 20years where I didn't really feel
like I had a connection tospirituality or to God or to
religion, I realized that therewas something that just felt
(03:06):
like it was missing.
There was something that alonging of wanting to be
remembered.
We talk about Global TruthCenter remember who you are.
So I think there always wassomething that wanted to be
remembered, a state ofremembrance, and fell into
foundations classes and it wasthe first time I'd ever really
(03:29):
officially studied anyspirituality.
I'd read some self-help booksand some philosophy, but it was
the first time I ever reallytook courses.
Yeah, so I started taking thosecourses and when it came to
practitioner training, at onepoint I was longing for a
community and I think that was abig part of who's my tribe and,
(03:50):
ironically, I had thought thatmaybe my tribe would be a part
of the gay men's chorus.
You know phenomenal communityof people and you know thinking
like oh, I sang in high schooland then, through college, had
an audition for anything for 20years, went there and just
tanked it like full-on thesinging part, the singing part
(04:13):
it was almost like a panicattack where I could feel my
entire spine radiate heat andjust freeze, and like there was
no relationship between my voiceand getting it out.
And simultaneously there wasthat part of me that had really
come to the knowing that there'ssomething for me to say,
(04:34):
there's something for me to putout into the world.
And I thought me finding andusing my voice would be among
the gay man's course in thatcommunity.
And it was as if the universesaid yeah, no, that's not how
you can best use your voice.
And right at that point is whenthe practitioner course sort of
(04:56):
opened up for me and I justkept taking class after class
after class and realizing maybethis is a place where my voice
can be used and expressed.
Yeah, I went through that wholething without intending.
There was no direct intentionof my end goals to be a minister
(05:18):
, it was just the byproduct ofit and finding ways to what's
the next step yeah, like what tofind and use my voice being on
this podcast with you.
Yeah, this is a brand newterritory for me.
Never intended that, but Iappreciate the opportunity to
use my voice sharing thedialogue and the conversation.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (05:37):
I want to follow up on two things you
said.
You mentioned that when youwere growing up, your sort of
spiritual background wasChristian science.
For people who maybe don't know, how would you say Christian
science is alike with science ofmind and new thought.
I mean, I have a sense of it,but I'm curious.
I haven't met someone or talkedwith someone who grew up in
(05:58):
that background.
What would you say is similarto what we teach?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (06:01):
It's very similar.
It's not part of the actual newthought community catalog but
it's a kissing cousin, it's avery close.
Mary Baker, eddie was on theforefront, you know, had some
physical healings throughPhineas Quimby.
There's a whole narrative ofthat.
(06:21):
But it is new thought, a littlemore fundamentalist.
You know of what differentiatesthe greatest portion of people
associated with Christiansciences.
Oh, they're the ones that don'tbelieve in doctors, they're the
ones that don't believe inmedicine.
So I grew up really a faithbase If something, if I was sick
(06:44):
, we call the practitioner andor we would pray, or the
combination of the two, and wedidn't go the route of the
doctors, but core, fundamentalprinciples.
You know my mother developedAlzheimer's at a very young age
and I remember it was probablymy first act of ministry and
even realize that I was the onethat was with her when the
(07:07):
doctor said you've got dementia,there's something going on with
your brain.
We don't know what it is.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (07:13):
At that point.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (07:13):
my mom was probably 52, 53 years
old my age and I rememberdriving her home from the
doctor's appointment and sheturned to me and she said am I
going to die?
I said, yes, At some point wein this, we're all going to die.
But what the doctors are saying?
There's something wrong withyour brain.
It's not working the way thatthey would like it to.
(07:35):
And I need you to remember thatthat's not your mind.
And having a beautiful momentbecause your mind is infinite
and rich and full and vibrantand dynamic, that's not your
brain.
They're not saying your mind is.
They're saying your brain isnot cooperating.
And when I look back I'm like,oh, I was ministering that.
(07:58):
It had probably been about a 10, 12 year, maybe even longer gap
since I've been to a christianscience church service.
I hadn't been to agape or anyof the new thought, science of
mind things, and yet in thatmoment there was that reservoir
of sort of truth that I justknew and to be able to speak it.
(08:20):
And it was really from thatpoint that I really started
doing my personal development,realizing, even in that moment
with my mother, like it wasactivating something within me
of what's the deeper truth youknow what's the higher truth,
would you say.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (08:36):
It's a fair assessment of christian
science.
You know to your point of.
Sometimes people will.
If they only know a little bit.
They're like, oh, that's the,the spiritual tradition where
you don't use doctors.
But if you go back to MaryBaker Eddy's original intention,
it was that you don't needdoctors because the mind is that
(08:57):
powerful and in theory, like onthis Christ consciousness level
, you can use your mind to healanything.
Is that a fair assessment ofthe sort of overall philosophy
of Christian science?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (09:09):
Yeah, I think that's a very fair
assessment and accurate.
And I've experienced thosetypes of healings of like just
really how I focus my mind andthe entire new thought movement,
focus my mind and the entirenew thought movement.
You know, if you go back toAnton Mesmer, you know who's the
first one, mesmer Mesmerism,you know.
First one really tapping intohypnotism, realizing, oh,
(09:32):
there's a way that you canoverride, through the use of the
mind, shift things in the body.
And Phineas Quimby is like well, if the mind's that powerful,
can we turn to it for healing,can we heal a physical condition
?
And that's really how the NewThought movement continued to
(09:52):
progress.
The difference between Scienceof Mind and most New Thought
movements and what I grew upwith, is we believe in prayers
and pills.
Is we believe in prayers andpills?
You know it's like the God.
If this God creative, healing,vibrant intelligence is present
in everything, then it's in thepills, it's in the doctors, the
(10:16):
surgeon, as well as thepractitioner and this person
that's going to pray.
It's in everything.
In Christian science we didn'tturn to the doctors because the
philosophy was to just reallyknow the truth and just rely on
spiritual prayer and spiritualwisdom to override or rectify or
(10:37):
bring into true coherence ofits purity.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (10:42):
Well, you have this career in design,
and very successful career, Iwould say you probably have
dealt with a fair number ofexacting and demanding clients
and getting people what theywant.
Can you, as you look at thatcareer, can you see or there are
instances where you go, ah,this where science of mind and
(11:04):
understanding how to to use yourmind properly Can you see in
places where that's helped youin that career?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (11:11):
You know I used to think that I was
walking two different paths.
I was, I had my spiritual pathand I was on my ministerial
studies.
You know that path.
And then there I had my careerand my goal intention was like
can I merge them together?
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (11:26):
And the truth of the matter is we're
always just walking one path.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (11:30):
We may think that it's two separate
paths, but my ministry scienceof minds, philosophy has infused
every aspect of my life.
You know one of the things thatan immediate thing that I could
think of, of how science ofminds has influenced or impacted
my work.
It turns into a game.
You know, we've had a clientwhere all they see is the
(11:51):
negative.
I hate this, this is the wrongcolor, this is it's not right,
it's not wrong.
And so I'll say you know, we'regoing to play Eric's game.
You need to find five thingsthat you like and appreciate
about the room, the piece offurniture, whatever it is, and
then from that place, then we'llshift to the things that we'd
like to shift your attention.
(12:12):
So in some ways it annoys themat first, but then they actually
really appreciate it because ithas taught them how to get into
the atmosphere of gratitude andultimately, realizing from a
quantum perspective what we putour attention on, grows.
Many of these clients, you knowthey can only see the stress
and the fear.
(12:33):
So that's what their experiencehas been.
You know where, when it comesfrom a loving perspective and
all that is right, like to getthem in that atmosphere, then
the things that still need to beaddressed will be addressed.
But it's now a molehill ratherthan Mount Everest.
I was going to say you know theother thing that you know the
(12:54):
conversation, where that isinfusing, I think, this
philosophy.
There are times where theclient and the magnitude and the
importance of they're throwinga party and you know, god forbid
, that throw pillow's not thereand they want that pillow
because they're having a party.
And I've been known through theyears to say if that throw
(13:14):
pillow or that side table isgoing to ruin your party, then A
you should rethink your guestlist.
And then I would say becausewe're not curing cancer, and
they started laughing.
But then I would always becausewe're not curing cancer and
they started laughing.
But then I would always throwin like but what if we are?
And ultimately, what's at theheart of what we're doing here?
We're creating a environmentthat, when you walk in, shifts
(13:37):
the energy that you are.
You know.
So, when you're in the presenceof beauty, whether it's a piece
of art, a song room, a poem innature, something shifts within
us and for me it's like beautyis one of those bridges that
gets me from my head into theheart space.
And when you're in coherencebetween the head and the heart,
(13:58):
that bridge between the two,that's where we're open for
inspiration and intuition toreally just drop in.
It's on that exhale Wow, thisroom is beautiful.
And in that moment, who knows,maybe you will be curing cancer.
You know, to me it's like theimportance at the heart of what
(14:19):
my industry is, of art andbeauty and interiors.
That's also at the heart ofscience and mind and philosophy,
you know, of really droppinginto the heart space.
Can we put aside all thenegative things in life and like
really just exhale into thetruth?
And that's the work of gettingdeveloping the muscle to get
(14:43):
back to that place quicker.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (14:45):
Let's look at a couple of the things
that we say often and I think inour teaching, and I think
sometimes people are like yeah,but like.
To me, this is these are alwaysthe yeah, but like people go,
that sounds good, but tell me,is it?
Is it really practical?
So I'm going to, we're going tojust jump through a couple of
these real quick and and see andget your take on them.
(15:05):
So we do say this idea of therelative is the absolute at the
level of the relative.
And people can hear this andthey might argue that, like an
unhoused, appearing to bementally ill person that they
don't have the ability to choose.
So why are they choosing tolive in that relative level?
I mean, we are saying that thatperson is the absolute, they're
(15:28):
just choosing to live at thatrelative level.
So how would, as you, thinkabout that, how do we reconcile
that idea that someone whodoesn't seem to be able to have
the ability to choose is in fact, in some way choosing that
experience?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (15:42):
Are they consciously aware?
Are they consciously choosing,or is there just sort of that
unspoken, because we're alwaysat choice?
That's one of the things I loveabout this philosophy is that
it remembers the recollection ofwe're always at coalition From
this place.
We're at choice.
Can we ever really be a victim?
(16:04):
Is someone that is homeless?
Are they a victim of theoutside situations and
conditions of the outer world orof their life?
And according to thisphilosopher, no one can be.
There are no victims.
I think there are differences.
There are different notes onthe musical scale, there are
(16:26):
different frequencies and thereare different levels of thought
and patterns that resonate atdifferent levels.
So, going back to therelativist, the absolute, pema
Chodron, she talked similarconcept of I am blue sky.
Everything else is weather, sothat there is that place of the
(16:48):
absolute.
There's the perfect, clear blueatmosphere.
That's the truth.
It's always there, it's alwayspresent.
However, the rest of it isweather.
A lot of times in my life I'mwalking through a snowstorm or a
drought or a windstorm, orthere's turbulence.
(17:09):
There's different weatherpatterns.
That is my experiential ofwhere I'm at.
That doesn't mean that I'm notalways connected to the perfect
blue sky.
So I think a lot of it is justwhat our life experiences and
what we're able to see andexperience when we're in a
(17:30):
denser energy, when we're in adenser atmosphere in our minds,
then it creates a differentexperience.
You know the same thing withlike I've gotten into it with a
different mind who had a cancerdiagnosis and she, sort of like
you and your metaphysical people, are now going to say I caused
(17:51):
my own cancer, right, you know?
And she was in that place oflike, how dare you?
That just pisses me off right,and trying to have that
conversation, I would always say, well, you are where you are at
right now.
You know how it showed up, youknow you can blame yourself or
not blame yourself, but if youcan bring it to right here,
(18:12):
right now, here's what's at hand.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (18:15):
Yeah.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (18:16):
And life is always unfolding
perfectly as I've come to reallyembody, then it's a perfection
in the cancer diagnosis.
How is this?
And if I really believe that atthe root of it this is a gift
or this is something, I need tolook at it differently.
(18:37):
So I always would start withcan I see the God in that as
well?
Can I start with loving what is?
Can I love the state of thiscancer cell?
Thank you, thank you for cominginto my life.
Thank you for bringing back toa heightened level of awareness
(18:57):
and connection with my body.
I see you, thank you, bless you, thank you, thank you, thank
you.
I'm at a heightened awareness.
I'm more cracked open becauseyou came into my life, a
heightened awareness of who I amand seeing where I was maybe
out of harmony with my body.
(19:18):
Thank you.
And from that place it's almostlovingly now I can release it,
because now my mind and my heartis really clear.
This came in.
And then a heightened awarenessthat cracked open to reconnect
and realign and remember thestrength and the power and the
(19:39):
vitality of life.
So that's how I would handlesomething like that and you know
, with my friend with a cancerdiagnosis, the same thing with
the homeless as well.
It's like I'm not saying it'sgood, but it's god.
And I think that the otherthing that comes in to you know,
earnest homes would say we turnaway from the condition in
(20:01):
treatment, you know, but thatdoesn't mean we don't look at it
, we don't acknowledge it to getbecause there's a lot of good
information, but when we'rereally turning to prayer, really
turning to our highestspiritual resonance, we need to
turn away from that conditionand just really see and speak
(20:21):
and know and resonate with thetruth.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (20:23):
That's one of the things that I think
that with Dr James Mellon, yes,you look at the condition before
you treat.
You want to understand it.
You want to understand what theconditions are, what the
beliefs are behind it, Like whyyou're thinking this, why this
has happened, but that once youstart to treat the condition,
you're done with it.
You know it's interestingbecause we are the two things
(20:44):
that we're sort of science ofmind is known for is the
divinity of man and the law ofcause and effect.
And it occurs to me that maybe,going back to that question of
the person who is on the street,maybe mentally challenged,
maybe the law of cause andeffect is that they're not
choosing it right now, but atsome point in the past, when
(21:06):
there was an ability to chooseconsciously and rationally,
there were choices that weremade that this is now the effect
of, and so, on a long timeline,they are now living the effect
of that cause.
Yeah, if you look at smoking,smoking is a cause that will
sometimes lead to an effect oflung cancer.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (21:28):
Have you always only ingested healthy
, organic food?
Have you had soda?
Have you had like?
Those are small little choicesthat for a lifetime, that well
gosh, those actually all couldhave been small causations to
ultimately get to a more toxic,toxic um state in the body which
(21:51):
is, you know, inducive forcancer.
So are you blaming?
Did I choose to get camp?
I'm like no, but the smalllittle increments.
I have a thing on my bulletinboard that the word because you
know so, when I think of law ofcause and effect, I've gone
(22:13):
through not as much now, butI've gone through many parts of
my life of using the wordbecause, well, this happened,
because of that.
Using because as an excuse or areason to justify, well, the
reason I'm not a success isbecause this happened or the
economy, the reason I'm not asuccess is because this happened
or the economy.
So, using because of living fromthe effects, and I think that's
one of the things so much ofour world, we live exclusively
(22:35):
from the effect and we createand we live our life from that.
But when I break down the wordbecause, it's because we
actually have this opportunityand the remembrance of, we are
actually true first cause.
We are the cause of everyeffect.
So the moment that I can shiftmy mind from oh, this happened
(22:56):
to me because of that, no,actually I'm going to be the
cause to create, to shift anentire new chain of thoughts and
beliefs and outward things.
So I think that's one of thosethings of the divinity of man,
the law of cause and effect.
For me it's to remember stufflike oh, no, it's, I am first
(23:20):
cause.
It goes back to Ernest Holmes.
There's a power for good in theuniverse greater than ourselves
, and you can use it because youare it, as Dr James Mellon
added in?
because you are it, we are cause.
The web of quantum entanglement, a web of all information, of
all possibilities,potentialities that ever has
(23:43):
existed, exist and ever will,are all fully the tapestry of
entanglement that's already madeand done.
It's pliable.
We just need to lean into it.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (23:54):
That's one of the ones that we sort of,
I think, get very often.
The other one is Dr James willoften say like one of his
spiritual truths is this idea ofeverything is unfolding
perfectly, no matter what, andoften we can look at things
going on in the relative and goreally, is it really like?
And he's had experiences in hislife that have caused him to
(24:16):
look at that and reallyunderstand it on a deeper level.
But you know, having been inclasses, the one question that
always comes up you're not goingto do it, having been in
classes, the one question thatalways comes up.
You're not going to do it, Iwill, but it actually is.
I don't want you to answer thatone, and of course we all know,
like any minister knows.
The question that's going tocome up is well, what about
(24:37):
Hitler?
Like you know?
How do you explain and whatthat the spirit of that note is?
If everything is unfoldingperfectly, no matter what, which
it is, how do we then makesense?
Because we want, we're tryingto discover meaning, we want to
like that sounds great, I wantto believe that.
And how do I get to the placewhere I truly believe it,
(25:01):
despite all the things going onin the relative, and certainly
these days, you know, we couldlook around and see lots of
relative things that many peoplewould not like.
So how do you Some of myrelatives.
Yeah, right, okay, so, and maybeI don't know, I'll let you
answer the question in a second.
I'm just going back to Hitlerand going law of cause and
effect.
There may be some point in hislife where he there was some
(25:25):
cause that that led him down tothe path, and then and then, in
the same way, everyone whofollowed him led them down the
path, like when that questionwould come up in ministerial
class.
How did you think about thatand how did you get to a place
where you could kind of have asense of what that answer is for
you?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (25:44):
I'm going to try to answer that
without going to spiritualbypass.
And in terms of life unfoldingperfectly, I think there are
times and to differentiate ofknowing something and making
sense of something.
So there are times where I knowlife is unfolding perfectly.
In today's climate, hitler, youknow, big economic crashes,
(26:10):
this is life unfolding, a forestfire, whatever it is.
There are times where, like,can I just like?
I know that, like I in thedepths of my soul, but I can't
make sense of it and my logicalmind wants to make sense and
rationalize for it, andsometimes making sense takes a
while to do it.
But the knowing, there's aknowing within me that is
(26:33):
immediate, that's tempting.
So when I think of the bigquestions, the answer for Hitler
, I know that there is a knowingand I can't wrap words around.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (26:45):
What comes to me is I hear you saying
that, like in your heart, youknow that life is unfolding
perfectly.
Your mind is like okay, but canheart, can you explain that to
me, cause I need to understandit in some logical way?
And the heart's like right, Ican't right now.
I know it, but I can't give youthe words that you want.
You just have to trust me,right?
(27:05):
I?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholt (27:05):
remember a handful of years ago, when I
went to Ghana, in Africa, and Iwas with a group of people from
Agape that I was traveling withand many older African-American
women.
I remember walking down theriverside singing spirituals,
their ancestry, this was thelast path of when they were
(27:28):
captured and they were beingbathed before they're taken to
the slave dungeons.
And here we were retracing,re-walking that path.
They're singing these beautifulsongs and I remember at that
time how can slavery be lifeunfolding perfectly, how could
that this be life working outexactly how it's meant to be, of
generations of people enslavedand the torture and everything,
(27:53):
and one of the things that Ijust recall in that moment,
going down to the riverbed andthen going to slave, into the
dungeons, and where we chantedand prayed, and I just remember
someone saying like, oh, we arethe answer to our ancestors
prayers, like it took how manyhundreds of years for these
(28:15):
older, free blackAfrican-American women to come
back to their roots, free likethe, the physical, the, the
manifestation of what so manygenerations before had prayed
for.
You know, and and ultimatelyrealizing, tapping into right
here, right now, I am the answerto, to so many of the prayers
(28:40):
that were asked and prayed upon.
Yeah, and I think that's eventrying to bring it back to the
Hitler thing of.
Did that create the perfectatmosphere for great realization
and growth?
Generations down the road tolook back and like we are who we
(29:04):
are because this man lived andexisted.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (29:08):
I'm reminded of I think this is
roughly right that formerPresident Obama talked about the
moral arc of history bendsslowly.
I'm paraphrasing, but that ideathat it is a long arc and it
may not go as fast as we want,but it does bend.
Well, let us now jump into thelightning round we're going to
(29:31):
have a quick questions.
They could be yes or no, nowrong answer, whatever comes to
my mind, and then we may followup on one of them at the end.
So I'm going to just like 60seconds whatever comes to your
mind.
Are you ready?
Go for it, okay.
First question have you evermanifested a parking spot or a
first class upgrade usingscience and mind principles?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtz (29:50):
Parking spot yes.
First class ticket no, I'vealways paid for that or miles.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (29:56):
I manifested the miles.
Yeah, oh, nice.
Okay, all right, good Numbertwo what's the most important
part of your morning spiritualpractice?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtze (30:05):
Waking up, taking that first breath,
that's a good one.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (30:09):
That's a good one.
Breath Breathing, I love itBreathing.
Number three what's a TV show,movie or book that you think
perfectly demonstrates scienceof mind principles?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (30:19):
I mean the obvious one is the
Wizard of Oz, that cliche ofGood choice, and even, and even
with it's a cliche, but evenlove only forgive everything.
Remember who you are.
Love only the scarecrow and theheart forgive everything.
So forgive is releasing,letting go the gut.
(30:40):
All has to do with the guts.
That would be the cowardly lionhaving the courage to release.
And what was the third one?
Remember who you are by onlyhead and brain.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (30:51):
Eric, that's some next level
metaphorical analysis there.
Well done, I love that.
So number four aside from beinga minister or designer, what's
one career or job that you couldimagine having in your life?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (31:05):
I'm loving doing retreat work.
I would love I can see myministry evolving doing more
experiential work, work withpeople, sort of deep dive,
collective, and I'm loving doingthe breath work that I'm doing,
you know, really bringing thatin.
So I think, creating retreatexperiences, you know, and then
(31:30):
also, you know, just in thedesign of in interiors, of more
consciously of in interiors, ofmore consciously helping build
the sanctuary in the home, asthe home and in the heart.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (31:43):
Yeah, Love it.
Number five you could have aNew York Times bestseller or
have your own show on Netflix.
Which would you choose?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (31:52):
If I could have a ghostwriter and
have the New York Times.
That's a one-off type thing.
Netflix seems a lot of work andongoing commitment of that.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (32:01):
Okay, what's one thing that people
might be surprised to know aboutyou.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (32:06):
Yeah, I think it depends on what
circle of friends I think anyonethat.
What I think my greatestsecrets are that I'm a very,
very sensitive person.
You know that the deep esoteric, the spirituality, and I for
many years felt like that was mybig, not taboo, but that was my
(32:28):
secret thing.
The truth matter is everyone'slike yeah, duh, we know that,
like it's just it, it this iswho you are, and like we can
radiate and we can sort of sensethat.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (32:39):
So okay , uh, last question you could
invite one person for dinnerernest holmes, abraham, lincoln
or gandhi, who's coming over toeric's house for dinner?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (32:49):
well, a recurring dinner party list
that I've had for years, so I'dhave to move that one to
accommodate.
This one was for Michelle Obamaand Oprah Winfrey.
We just haven't been able tosync up our schedules for that,
so as long as I can move thatdinner party.
Who are my choices?
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (33:06):
I'm sure that they'd probably say
invite me over, I want to havedinner with Abraham Lincoln and
Gandhi.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (33:12):
I'd probably go with Gandhi just
because I had such a resonantexperience in India during the
month of November.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (33:19):
You know what I'm going to add.
One last question.
You've traveled a lot of placesin the world.
What's one place you've been towhere you would absolutely go
back there again, oh?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (33:27):
there are many.
I definitely would go back toIndia.
When I was going there, I knewthat I was going to remember
something.
I didn't know what I was goingthere to remember and I felt
like things were tapped in.
There are different parts ofIndia I'd like to explore next
time.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (33:46):
Well, let's move into our final
section, which is I want youradvice on topics, and one of
them I'd be curious about is youbalance your professional life
as a designer, and then theretreats that you're doing, also
your ministerial life.
What's the biggest challengeyou faced in terms of balancing
all of those, or a piece ofadvice you might give someone on
(34:09):
how to balance having multiplethings going on in your life at
once?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (34:13):
I love the.
I use the metaphor a lot ofspace and particles.
I love the.
I use the metaphor a lot ofspace and particles.
You know, when you are have acareer, you're in studies, one,
you'd be of service, it feelslike you've got lots of balls up
in the air, so it's like ajuggling act.
So one of the things that Iregularly do is I'll just and
sometimes it's even just thewords space and particles shift
(34:37):
my mind to the space, the spacein between the particles.
So it's like there's a lot thatgoes on.
There's a lot of activity, alot of commitments.
A lot of people will want youfrom different perspectives.
If I focus just on the balls inthe air, it can become
overwhelming.
It feels like it's not, it'stoo much, and there's a part of
(34:57):
me that I know I'm like it's not, it's too much, and there's a
part of me that I know I'm likeit's not too much, it's a lot.
But the moment I can shift tothe space, everything sort of
slows down and it gives me theopportunity to.
Well, let me look at this allin the air from all different
angles and perspectives, andmaybe this other one, and then I
can really discern.
(35:18):
This needs more attention rightnow, or this feels like I want
to give more attention to thatso I think a lot of it is not
deceiving myself or kiddingmyself that there's not a lot to
do.
there's a lot to do, but beingusing some tools to really
discern what's mine to do now.
So that's one thing, and thenthe other challenge from my
(35:41):
experience has been my spiritualpath.
It's a very individual personaljourney and the challenge is
find the balance of who do Ishare that with and who don't I.
What do I keep close as anindividual experience?
And to find the comfort zone tobe able to share it with
(36:02):
someone, to share with people,and to realize that there's a
difference between being aloneand being lonely.
I think there are.
Sometimes, when you're on aspiritual path and you're doing
that, there's a lot of alonetime.
Can you be alone without beinglonely?
And when the feelings or theenergy of loneliness start to
creep in, can you be willing toincorporate other people?
(36:26):
And I don't have resentment onthe spiritual path because I'm
perceiving as lonely it's notlonely, but at times can feel
that way.
So that's the challenge, orsome of the challenges.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (36:37):
I love that Last question.
As you look forward, and what'sthat?
Blue?
Blue?
Now I got to think of aquestion for which blue is the
answer.
As you look forward to thefuture of new thought, what
color should all the churches?
No, I'm kidding.
As you look forward to thefuture of new thought spiritual
(37:00):
centers and you know we have alot of after the pandemic, a lot
of things change.
More things online, some thingsin person, still more
experiential.
What do you see from where youare and having experienced all
these in the last three, four,five years, what do you see as
the how new thought spiritualcenters can be most successful?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtz (37:22):
centers and that are more open at the
top than others.
I don't know.
For me it's also therealization of to be open the
(37:43):
top means you're actually in abox to be.
You know, I think the future ofnew thought is far more
expansive.
So when looking at, for methere were and I think still,
some people of like beingabsolutists of this is the way
that philosophy is, this is howa center should look like.
(38:06):
It kind of goes back to ErnestHolmes saying if you're still
relying completely on what Iwrote in 1926, 28, you missed
the point.
Because life and the evolution,consciousness shifts and grows.
I think the needs for spiritualcenters and connections are
continuing to grow and expandand be outside of the box that
(38:31):
it has been known as, eventhough the lid was open.
We're open at the top, but thecommunity and the need and
desire at times has movedoutside the box.
I don't think the box is bigenough.
So for me, I've gone through, Iwould say, an identity crisis
of feeling like, oh, I'm not bigenough or worthy enough, going
back to using my voice worthyenough or dynamic enough or
(38:56):
whatever for this box worthyenough or dynamic enough or
whatever for this box?
And the truth of the matter is,you know, actually this box is
no longer big enough for me, youknow, and the work that the
world is wanting for so muchbigger, and knowing that this
box, it will be a cornerstoneand a foundational, the lock and
(39:16):
the foundation of who I am, andto be willing to move outside
that and broaden it.
So it's like there are thingsfor me to remember from ancient
india, bringing some of thosevedic truths which for me has
been forgotten to bring backhome.
So I I think it's maybe it's theboxes of tether keeps me
(39:39):
tethered, keeps me safe andkeeps me aligned, like my stake
in the ground is through thisbox with an open top, but to
give myself a really long ropeto go out and to explore.
And I think the other thing isthe experiential.
You know people keep talkingabout the need of that.
It's new thought, you know,even your talk, new thought to
(40:03):
real talk.
So they're moving from here tohere, but for me I think you
need to get from here to here,to in the body.
So there's that experientialmovement of it to sort of bypass
, just keeping it as anintellectual philosophy, wow.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (40:21):
I love that.
I don't think I will ever beable to look up at the ceiling
in our center and not think ofthat idea of being open at the
top and imagining, rememberingit's not a box to contain, it's
a box to be, a departure pointfor what can be even greater and
it even goes back to.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (40:42):
You know the story of a baby
elephant who is chained.
You know their ankles changedand you know rope staked in the
ground and it grows.
And it grows because of theconditioning we think like this
is all that it can look like, orwhen the truth of the matter,
the elephant grows to a placewhere it's a psychological,
(41:04):
mental construct, thinking thatthis chain is going to hold him
back.
I think that can also apply toministry, can apply to spiritual
things.
We've grown up thinking itneeds to look this way, but as
we grow in thought and mind likethere's so many different
directions that we can go, weare so much bigger than the
(41:26):
constructs that are holding usin place.
Yeah, you know and the andthey've served us so incredibly
well.
You know, the box with the lidopen at the top is the
atmosphere that has enabled meto explore and experiment and
play and ultimately to move awayfrom and keep coming back to.
It's like the ongoing hero'sjourney.
(41:48):
Yeah, you know, I think that'swhat's about to go out and learn
, explore and then bring backand share, not necessarily to
preach and say this is the wayit is, but like to come back and
share, not necessarily topreach and say this is the way
it is, but to come back andmodel.
Embodied of this is the lifethat I'm living.
This is what witness and youcan see and be with me, based on
all the experience of going outand coming back.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (42:09):
Yeah, I don't know why, but I'm
reminded of the movie Elf, andif you think about that story,
that's exactly what youdescribed.
Because in the beginning of themovie, when Buddy the Elf is
played by Will Ferrell, there'sscenes where he's so big now
that the box at the North Polewith all the other elves cannot
contain him, so he has to go outhave his adventure in New York.
(42:32):
But what does he do?
At the end of the story?
He comes back and brings thewisdom of what he learned out
there into that box, and nowhe's integrated in a way that he
wasn't before.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (42:43):
Yeah, I never thought of it that way.
But I think that's the tool of.
We've all read the same books,we've all taken so many of the
similar classes and really isthe time to really put it into
action, to really embody this,like at a cellular level.
You know, it's one thing tohave the intellectual part, but
(43:04):
then to be able to really havethe cellular memory of it
throughout our body so we canjust live it.
We say new thought, but I thinkthere's a beautiful point in
where you don't need to bethinking about it.
It's just part of who you arebecause it's so incorporated in,
(43:26):
I'll say to myself, of how Imove through life.
I'm not even aware, I don'teven think about that.
It's how deeply rooted it is inthis new thought philosophy,
because I've done the work, I'mcommitted to continue to do the
work and through the ups anddowns of it all, it's just
(43:46):
incorporated.
I move through life at a levelof consciousness which is rooted
in new thoughts.
Because of that, I just gothrough life very differently
than how I once did.
I think that's what I wishother people to experience To be
so comfortable in your skin,going back to for me to get to a
(44:09):
point of being comfortable inmy skin, realizing I'm a work of
art.
This is who I am in the comfortzone.
I'm a work of art, this is whoI am in the comfort zone to be
so comfortable and intimate inthe understanding and the
expression of this philosophythat we're just moving through
as the philosophy.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (44:27):
Well, that is a terrific place to
leave our discussion for now.
Reverend Dr Eric Overholtz, I'mso grateful to you for being
part of this conversation.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today.
All right, have a great day.
Thank you so much for joiningme in this conversation with
Reverend Dr Eric Overholzer.
If you enjoyed this episode,please share it with someone who
(44:49):
might find inspiration inEric's story.
And don't forget to subscribeto All Revved Up for more
conversations designed to upliftand ignite your purpose.
Until next time, I'm Rev DrThor Chalgren.
See you on the next episode ofAll Revved Up.
Welcome everyone.
This is Rev Dr Thor Chalgren.
On today's episode of AllRevved Up, my guest is Rev Dr
Eric Overholzer, a New Thoughtminister whose journey to
becoming a minister is anythingbut conventional.
Eric grew up in Christianscience, left organized
spirituality for over 20 yearsand then rediscovered his path
(00:28):
by taking one small step afteranother.
His story is a reminder thatlife often calls us in ways we
don't expect.
In our conversation, ericshares how he learned to use his
voice in meaningful ways, notjust in ministry, but also in
his career as a designer.
He revealed how he helpsclients shift their focus from
(00:50):
stress to gratitude, which gotme thinking about how much our
perspective shapes every part ofour lives.
We also dove into some bigquestions, like how new thought
principles can help usunderstand life's challenges,
whether they're personalstruggles like a health
diagnosis, or even historicalevents that may shake our faith
(01:12):
in the idea that life isunfolding perfectly.
Eric's perspective gave me newways to consider these teachings
in my own life.
And finally, we explored thefuture of New Thought and Eric's
vision of spiritual centersevolving beyond their
traditional boundaries to meetthe changing needs of the world.
His insights left me bothinspired and challenged to think
(01:35):
about what's next for all of us.
Here now is my interview withReverend Dr Eric Overholzer.
Eric Overholzer, dr EricOverholzer, welcome to the show
today.
How are you?
I'm doing.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (01:51):
great Thanks for having me.
How are you?
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (02:00):
I'm good.
Yeah, it's great.
I'm super excited to have youon the show today.
I want to start with your sortof background and your history.
Tell me about your journey tobecome a New Thought minister.
Was it kind of a straight pathfrom foundational classes to
practitioner to minister?
Like when you started thisjourney, did you know that it
would end up with you beingReverend Eric?
Or tell me what was yourjourney and experience like
(02:21):
getting to where you are now?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (02:23):
It's a great question.
I never anticipated or plannedto become a minister.
It was a path that just kind ofpresented itself.
I just took the next step andthe next step and the next step.
But if I really look back, it'snot surprising.
I grew up in metaphysics.
I grew up going to Sundayschool, to Christian science
Sunday school.
(02:44):
That was a root foundation ofmine and for many different
reasons I left that path, leftthat life, and then I went into
a big void.
So in that void of probably 20years where I didn't really feel
like I had a connection tospirituality or to God or to
religion, I realized that therewas something that just felt
(03:06):
like it was missing.
There was something that alonging of wanting to be
remembered.
We talk about Global TruthCenter remember who you are.
So I think there always wassomething that wanted to be
remembered, a state ofremembrance, and fell into
foundations classes and it wasthe first time I'd ever really
(03:29):
officially studied anyspirituality.
I'd read some self-help booksand some philosophy, but it was
the first time I ever reallytook courses.
Yeah, so I started taking thosecourses and when it came to
practitioner training, at onepoint I was longing for a
community and I think that was abig part of who's my tribe and,
(03:50):
ironically, I had thought thatmaybe my tribe would be a part
of the gay men's chorus.
You know phenomenal communityof people and you know thinking
like oh, I sang in high schooland then, through college, had
an audition for anything for 20years, went there and just
tanked it like full-on thesinging part, the singing part
(04:13):
it was almost like a panicattack where I could feel my
entire spine radiate heat andjust freeze, and like there was
no relationship between my voiceand getting it out.
And simultaneously there wasthat part of me that had really
come to the knowing that there'ssomething for me to say,
(04:34):
there's something for me to putout into the world.
And I thought me finding andusing my voice would be among
the gay man's course in thatcommunity.
And it was as if the universesaid yeah, no, that's not how
you can best use your voice.
And right at that point is whenthe practitioner course sort of
(04:56):
opened up for me and I justkept taking class after class
after class and realizing maybethis is a place where my voice
can be used and expressed.
Yeah, I went through that wholething without intending.
There was no direct intentionof my end goals to be a minister
(05:18):
, it was just the byproduct ofit and finding ways to what's
the next step yeah, like what tofind and use my voice being on
this podcast with you.
Yeah, this is a brand newterritory for me.
Never intended that, but Iappreciate the opportunity to
use my voice sharing thedialogue and the conversation.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (05:37):
I want to follow up on two things you
said.
You mentioned that when youwere growing up, your sort of
spiritual background wasChristian science.
For people who maybe don't know, how would you say Christian
science is alike with science ofmind and new thought.
I mean, I have a sense of it,but I'm curious.
I haven't met someone or talkedwith someone who grew up in
(05:58):
that background.
What would you say is similarto what we teach?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (06:01):
It's very similar.
It's not part of the actual newthought community catalog but
it's a kissing cousin, it's avery close.
Mary Baker, eddie was on theforefront, you know, had some
physical healings throughPhineas Quimby.
There's a whole narrative ofthat.
(06:21):
But it is new thought, a littlemore fundamentalist.
You know of what differentiatesthe greatest portion of people
associated with Christiansciences.
Oh, they're the ones that don'tbelieve in doctors, they're the
ones that don't believe inmedicine.
So I grew up really a faithbase If something, if I was sick
(06:44):
, we call the practitioner andor we would pray, or the
combination of the two, and wedidn't go the route of the
doctors, but core, fundamentalprinciples.
You know my mother developedAlzheimer's at a very young age
and I remember it was probablymy first act of ministry and
even realize that I was the onethat was with her when the
(07:07):
doctor said you've got dementia,there's something going on with
your brain.
We don't know what it is.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (07:13):
At that point.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (07:13):
my mom was probably 52, 53 years
old my age and I rememberdriving her home from the
doctor's appointment and sheturned to me and she said am I
going to die?
I said, yes, At some point wein this, we're all going to die.
But what the doctors are saying?
There's something wrong withyour brain.
It's not working the way thatthey would like it to.
(07:35):
And I need you to remember thatthat's not your mind.
And having a beautiful momentbecause your mind is infinite
and rich and full and vibrantand dynamic, that's not your
brain.
They're not saying your mind is.
They're saying your brain isnot cooperating.
And when I look back I'm like,oh, I was ministering that.
(07:58):
It had probably been about a 10, 12 year, maybe even longer gap
since I've been to a christianscience church service.
I hadn't been to agape or anyof the new thought, science of
mind things, and yet in thatmoment there was that reservoir
of sort of truth that I justknew and to be able to speak it.
(08:20):
And it was really from thatpoint that I really started
doing my personal development,realizing, even in that moment
with my mother, like it wasactivating something within me
of what's the deeper truth youknow what's the higher truth,
would you say.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (08:36):
It's a fair assessment of christian
science.
You know to your point of.
Sometimes people will.
If they only know a little bit.
They're like, oh, that's the,the spiritual tradition where
you don't use doctors.
But if you go back to MaryBaker Eddy's original intention,
it was that you don't needdoctors because the mind is that
(08:57):
powerful and in theory, like onthis Christ consciousness level
, you can use your mind to healanything.
Is that a fair assessment ofthe sort of overall philosophy
of Christian science?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (09:09):
Yeah, I think that's a very fair
assessment and accurate.
And I've experienced thosetypes of healings of like just
really how I focus my mind andthe entire new thought movement,
focus my mind and the entirenew thought movement.
You know, if you go back toAnton Mesmer, you know who's the
first one, mesmer Mesmerism,you know.
First one really tapping intohypnotism, realizing, oh,
(09:32):
there's a way that you canoverride, through the use of the
mind, shift things in the body.
And Phineas Quimby is like well, if the mind's that powerful,
can we turn to it for healing,can we heal a physical condition
?
And that's really how the NewThought movement continued to
(09:52):
progress.
The difference between Scienceof Mind and most New Thought
movements and what I grew upwith, is we believe in prayers
and pills.
Is we believe in prayers andpills?
You know it's like the God.
If this God creative, healing,vibrant intelligence is present
in everything, then it's in thepills, it's in the doctors, the
(10:16):
surgeon, as well as thepractitioner and this person
that's going to pray.
It's in everything.
In Christian science we didn'tturn to the doctors because the
philosophy was to just reallyknow the truth and just rely on
spiritual prayer and spiritualwisdom to override or rectify or
(10:37):
bring into true coherence ofits purity.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (10:42):
Well, you have this career in design,
and very successful career, Iwould say you probably have
dealt with a fair number ofexacting and demanding clients
and getting people what theywant.
Can you, as you look at thatcareer, can you see or there are
instances where you go, ah,this where science of mind and
(11:04):
understanding how to to use yourmind properly Can you see in
places where that's helped youin that career?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (11:11):
You know I used to think that I was
walking two different paths.
I was, I had my spiritual pathand I was on my ministerial
studies.
You know that path.
And then there I had my careerand my goal intention was like
can I merge them together?
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (11:26):
And the truth of the matter is we're
always just walking one path.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (11:30):
We may think that it's two separate
paths, but my ministry scienceof minds, philosophy has infused
every aspect of my life.
You know one of the things thatan immediate thing that I could
think of, of how science ofminds has influenced or impacted
my work.
It turns into a game.
You know, we've had a clientwhere all they see is the
(11:51):
negative.
I hate this, this is the wrongcolor, this is it's not right,
it's not wrong.
And so I'll say you know, we'regoing to play Eric's game.
You need to find five thingsthat you like and appreciate
about the room, the piece offurniture, whatever it is, and
then from that place, then we'llshift to the things that we'd
like to shift your attention.
(12:12):
So in some ways it annoys themat first, but then they actually
really appreciate it because ithas taught them how to get into
the atmosphere of gratitude andultimately, realizing from a
quantum perspective what we putour attention on, grows.
Many of these clients, you knowthey can only see the stress
and the fear.
(12:33):
So that's what their experiencehas been.
You know where, when it comesfrom a loving perspective and
all that is right, like to getthem in that atmosphere, then
the things that still need to beaddressed will be addressed.
But it's now a molehill ratherthan Mount Everest.
I was going to say you know theother thing that you know the
(12:54):
conversation, where that isinfusing, I think, this
philosophy.
There are times where theclient and the magnitude and the
importance of they're throwinga party and you know, god forbid
, that throw pillow's not thereand they want that pillow
because they're having a party.
And I've been known through theyears to say if that throw
(13:14):
pillow or that side table isgoing to ruin your party, then A
you should rethink your guestlist.
And then I would say becausewe're not curing cancer, and
they started laughing.
But then I would always becausewe're not curing cancer and
they started laughing.
But then I would always throwin like but what if we are?
And ultimately, what's at theheart of what we're doing here?
We're creating a environmentthat, when you walk in, shifts
(13:37):
the energy that you are.
You know.
So, when you're in the presenceof beauty, whether it's a piece
of art, a song room, a poem innature, something shifts within
us and for me it's like beautyis one of those bridges that
gets me from my head into theheart space.
And when you're in coherencebetween the head and the heart,
(13:58):
that bridge between the two,that's where we're open for
inspiration and intuition toreally just drop in.
It's on that exhale Wow, thisroom is beautiful.
And in that moment, who knows,maybe you will be curing cancer.
You know, to me it's like theimportance at the heart of what
(14:19):
my industry is, of art andbeauty and interiors.
That's also at the heart ofscience and mind and philosophy,
you know, of really droppinginto the heart space.
Can we put aside all thenegative things in life and like
really just exhale into thetruth?
And that's the work of gettingdeveloping the muscle to get
(14:43):
back to that place quicker.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (14:45):
Let's look at a couple of the things
that we say often and I think inour teaching, and I think
sometimes people are like yeah,but like.
To me, this is these are alwaysthe yeah, but like people go,
that sounds good, but tell me,is it?
Is it really practical?
So I'm going to, we're going tojust jump through a couple of
these real quick and and see andget your take on them.
(15:05):
So we do say this idea of therelative is the absolute at the
level of the relative.
And people can hear this andthey might argue that, like an
unhoused, appearing to bementally ill person that they
don't have the ability to choose.
So why are they choosing tolive in that relative level?
I mean, we are saying that thatperson is the absolute, they're
(15:28):
just choosing to live at thatrelative level.
So how would, as you, thinkabout that, how do we reconcile
that idea that someone whodoesn't seem to be able to have
the ability to choose is in fact, in some way choosing that
experience?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (15:42):
Are they consciously aware?
Are they consciously choosing,or is there just sort of that
unspoken, because we're alwaysat choice?
That's one of the things I loveabout this philosophy is that
it remembers the recollection ofwe're always at coalition From
this place.
We're at choice.
Can we ever really be a victim?
(16:04):
Is someone that is homeless?
Are they a victim of theoutside situations and
conditions of the outer world orof their life?
And according to thisphilosopher, no one can be.
There are no victims.
I think there are differences.
There are different notes onthe musical scale, there are
(16:26):
different frequencies and thereare different levels of thought
and patterns that resonate atdifferent levels.
So, going back to therelativist, the absolute, pema
Chodron, she talked similarconcept of I am blue sky.
Everything else is weather, sothat there is that place of the
(16:48):
absolute.
There's the perfect, clear blueatmosphere.
That's the truth.
It's always there, it's alwayspresent.
However, the rest of it isweather.
A lot of times in my life I'mwalking through a snowstorm or a
drought or a windstorm, orthere's turbulence.
(17:09):
There's different weatherpatterns.
That is my experiential ofwhere I'm at.
That doesn't mean that I'm notalways connected to the perfect
blue sky.
So I think a lot of it is justwhat our life experiences and
what we're able to see andexperience when we're in a
(17:30):
denser energy, when we're in adenser atmosphere in our minds,
then it creates a differentexperience.
You know the same thing withlike I've gotten into it with a
different mind who had a cancerdiagnosis and she, sort of like
you and your metaphysical people, are now going to say I caused
(17:51):
my own cancer, right, you know?
And she was in that place oflike, how dare you?
That just pisses me off right,and trying to have that
conversation, I would always say, well, you are where you are at
right now.
You know how it showed up, youknow you can blame yourself or
not blame yourself, but if youcan bring it to right here,
(18:12):
right now, here's what's at hand.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (18:15):
Yeah.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (18:16):
And life is always unfolding
perfectly as I've come to reallyembody, then it's a perfection
in the cancer diagnosis.
How is this?
And if I really believe that atthe root of it this is a gift
or this is something, I need tolook at it differently.
(18:37):
So I always would start withcan I see the God in that as
well?
Can I start with loving what is?
Can I love the state of thiscancer cell?
Thank you, thank you for cominginto my life.
Thank you for bringing back toa heightened level of awareness
(18:57):
and connection with my body.
I see you, thank you, bless you, thank you, thank you, thank
you.
I'm at a heightened awareness.
I'm more cracked open becauseyou came into my life, a
heightened awareness of who I amand seeing where I was maybe
out of harmony with my body.
(19:18):
Thank you.
And from that place it's almostlovingly now I can release it,
because now my mind and my heartis really clear.
This came in.
And then a heightened awarenessthat cracked open to reconnect
and realign and remember thestrength and the power and the
(19:39):
vitality of life.
So that's how I would handlesomething like that and you know
, with my friend with a cancerdiagnosis, the same thing with
the homeless as well.
It's like I'm not saying it'sgood, but it's god.
And I think that the otherthing that comes in to you know,
earnest homes would say we turnaway from the condition in
(20:01):
treatment, you know, but thatdoesn't mean we don't look at it
, we don't acknowledge it to getbecause there's a lot of good
information, but when we'rereally turning to prayer, really
turning to our highestspiritual resonance, we need to
turn away from that conditionand just really see and speak
(20:21):
and know and resonate with thetruth.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (20:23):
That's one of the things that I think
that with Dr James Mellon, yes,you look at the condition before
you treat.
You want to understand it.
You want to understand what theconditions are, what the
beliefs are behind it, Like whyyou're thinking this, why this
has happened, but that once youstart to treat the condition,
you're done with it.
You know it's interestingbecause we are the two things
(20:44):
that we're sort of science ofmind is known for is the
divinity of man and the law ofcause and effect.
And it occurs to me that maybe,going back to that question of
the person who is on the street,maybe mentally challenged,
maybe the law of cause andeffect is that they're not
choosing it right now, but atsome point in the past, when
(21:06):
there was an ability to chooseconsciously and rationally,
there were choices that weremade that this is now the effect
of, and so, on a long timeline,they are now living the effect
of that cause.
Yeah, if you look at smoking,smoking is a cause that will
sometimes lead to an effect oflung cancer.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (21:28):
Have you always only ingested healthy
, organic food?
Have you had soda?
Have you had like?
Those are small little choicesthat for a lifetime, that well
gosh, those actually all couldhave been small causations to
ultimately get to a more toxic,toxic um state in the body which
(21:51):
is, you know, inducive forcancer.
So are you blaming?
Did I choose to get camp?
I'm like no, but the smalllittle increments.
I have a thing on my bulletinboard that the word because you
know so, when I think of law ofcause and effect, I've gone
(22:13):
through not as much now, butI've gone through many parts of
my life of using the wordbecause, well, this happened,
because of that.
Using because as an excuse or areason to justify, well, the
reason I'm not a success isbecause this happened or the
economy, the reason I'm not asuccess is because this happened
or the economy.
So, using because of living fromthe effects, and I think that's
one of the things so much ofour world, we live exclusively
(22:35):
from the effect and we createand we live our life from that.
But when I break down the wordbecause, it's because we
actually have this opportunityand the remembrance of, we are
actually true first cause.
We are the cause of everyeffect.
So the moment that I can shiftmy mind from oh, this happened
(22:56):
to me because of that, no,actually I'm going to be the
cause to create, to shift anentire new chain of thoughts and
beliefs and outward things.
So I think that's one of thosethings of the divinity of man,
the law of cause and effect.
For me it's to remember stufflike oh, no, it's, I am first
(23:20):
cause.
It goes back to Ernest Holmes.
There's a power for good in theuniverse greater than ourselves
, and you can use it because youare it, as Dr James Mellon
added in?
because you are it, we are cause.
The web of quantum entanglement, a web of all information, of
all possibilities,potentialities that ever has
(23:43):
existed, exist and ever will,are all fully the tapestry of
entanglement that's already madeand done.
It's pliable.
We just need to lean into it.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (23:54):
That's one of the ones that we sort of,
I think, get very often.
The other one is Dr James willoften say like one of his
spiritual truths is this idea ofeverything is unfolding
perfectly, no matter what, andoften we can look at things
going on in the relative and goreally, is it really like?
And he's had experiences in hislife that have caused him to
(24:16):
look at that and reallyunderstand it on a deeper level.
But you know, having been inclasses, the one question that
always comes up you're not goingto do it, having been in
classes, the one question thatalways comes up.
You're not going to do it, Iwill, but it actually is.
I don't want you to answer thatone, and of course we all know,
like any minister knows.
The question that's going tocome up is well, what about
(24:37):
Hitler?
Like you know?
How do you explain and whatthat the spirit of that note is?
If everything is unfoldingperfectly, no matter what, which
it is, how do we then makesense?
Because we want, we're tryingto discover meaning, we want to
like that sounds great, I wantto believe that.
And how do I get to the placewhere I truly believe it,
(25:01):
despite all the things going onin the relative, and certainly
these days, you know, we couldlook around and see lots of
relative things that many peoplewould not like.
So how do you Some of myrelatives.
Yeah, right, okay, so, and maybeI don't know, I'll let you
answer the question in a second.
I'm just going back to Hitlerand going law of cause and
effect.
There may be some point in hislife where he there was some
(25:25):
cause that that led him down tothe path, and then and then, in
the same way, everyone whofollowed him led them down the
path, like when that questionwould come up in ministerial
class.
How did you think about thatand how did you get to a place
where you could kind of have asense of what that answer is for
you?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (25:44):
I'm going to try to answer that
without going to spiritualbypass.
And in terms of life unfoldingperfectly, I think there are
times and to differentiate ofknowing something and making
sense of something.
So there are times where I knowlife is unfolding perfectly.
In today's climate, hitler, youknow, big economic crashes,
(26:10):
this is life unfolding, a forestfire, whatever it is.
There are times where, like,can I just like?
I know that, like I in thedepths of my soul, but I can't
make sense of it and my logicalmind wants to make sense and
rationalize for it, andsometimes making sense takes a
while to do it.
But the knowing, there's aknowing within me that is
(26:33):
immediate, that's tempting.
So when I think of the bigquestions, the answer for Hitler
, I know that there is a knowingand I can't wrap words around.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (26:45):
What comes to me is I hear you saying
that, like in your heart, youknow that life is unfolding
perfectly.
Your mind is like okay, but canheart, can you explain that to
me, cause I need to understandit in some logical way?
And the heart's like right, Ican't right now.
I know it, but I can't give youthe words that you want.
You just have to trust me,right?
(27:05):
I?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholt (27:05):
remember a handful of years ago, when I
went to Ghana, in Africa, and Iwas with a group of people from
Agape that I was traveling withand many older African-American
women.
I remember walking down theriverside singing spirituals,
their ancestry, this was thelast path of when they were
(27:28):
captured and they were beingbathed before they're taken to
the slave dungeons.
And here we were retracing,re-walking that path.
They're singing these beautifulsongs and I remember at that
time how can slavery be lifeunfolding perfectly, how could
that this be life working outexactly how it's meant to be, of
generations of people enslavedand the torture and everything,
(27:53):
and one of the things that Ijust recall in that moment,
going down to the riverbed andthen going to slave, into the
dungeons, and where we chantedand prayed, and I just remember
someone saying like, oh, we arethe answer to our ancestors
prayers, like it took how manyhundreds of years for these
(28:15):
older, free blackAfrican-American women to come
back to their roots, free likethe, the physical, the, the
manifestation of what so manygenerations before had prayed
for.
You know, and and ultimatelyrealizing, tapping into right
here, right now, I am the answerto, to so many of the prayers
(28:40):
that were asked and prayed upon.
Yeah, and I think that's eventrying to bring it back to the
Hitler thing of.
Did that create the perfectatmosphere for great realization
and growth?
Generations down the road tolook back and like we are who we
(29:04):
are because this man lived andexisted.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (29:08):
I'm reminded of I think this is
roughly right that formerPresident Obama talked about the
moral arc of history bendsslowly.
I'm paraphrasing, but that ideathat it is a long arc and it
may not go as fast as we want,but it does bend.
Well, let us now jump into thelightning round we're going to
(29:31):
have a quick questions.
They could be yes or no, nowrong answer, whatever comes to
my mind, and then we may followup on one of them at the end.
So I'm going to just like 60seconds whatever comes to your
mind.
Are you ready?
Go for it, okay.
First question have you evermanifested a parking spot or a
first class upgrade usingscience and mind principles?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtz (29:50):
Parking spot yes.
First class ticket no, I'vealways paid for that or miles.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (29:56):
I manifested the miles.
Yeah, oh, nice.
Okay, all right, good Numbertwo what's the most important
part of your morning spiritualpractice?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtze (30:05):
Waking up, taking that first breath,
that's a good one.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (30:09):
That's a good one.
Breath Breathing, I love itBreathing.
Number three what's a TV show,movie or book that you think
perfectly demonstrates scienceof mind principles?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (30:19):
I mean the obvious one is the
Wizard of Oz, that cliche ofGood choice, and even, and even
with it's a cliche, but evenlove only forgive everything.
Remember who you are.
Love only the scarecrow and theheart forgive everything.
So forgive is releasing,letting go the gut.
(30:40):
All has to do with the guts.
That would be the cowardly lionhaving the courage to release.
And what was the third one?
Remember who you are by onlyhead and brain.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (30:51):
Eric, that's some next level
metaphorical analysis there.
Well done, I love that.
So number four aside from beinga minister or designer, what's
one career or job that you couldimagine having in your life?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (31:05):
I'm loving doing retreat work.
I would love I can see myministry evolving doing more
experiential work, work withpeople, sort of deep dive,
collective, and I'm loving doingthe breath work that I'm doing,
you know, really bringing thatin.
So I think, creating retreatexperiences, you know, and then
(31:30):
also, you know, just in thedesign of in interiors, of more
consciously of in interiors, ofmore consciously helping build
the sanctuary in the home, asthe home and in the heart.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (31:43):
Yeah, Love it.
Number five you could have aNew York Times bestseller or
have your own show on Netflix.
Which would you choose?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (31:52):
If I could have a ghostwriter and
have the New York Times.
That's a one-off type thing.
Netflix seems a lot of work andongoing commitment of that.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (32:01):
Okay, what's one thing that people
might be surprised to know aboutyou.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (32:06):
Yeah, I think it depends on what
circle of friends I think anyonethat.
What I think my greatestsecrets are that I'm a very,
very sensitive person.
You know that the deep esoteric, the spirituality, and I for
many years felt like that was mybig, not taboo, but that was my
(32:28):
secret thing.
The truth matter is everyone'slike yeah, duh, we know that,
like it's just it, it this iswho you are, and like we can
radiate and we can sort of sensethat.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (32:39):
So okay , uh, last question you could
invite one person for dinnerernest holmes, abraham, lincoln
or gandhi, who's coming over toeric's house for dinner?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (32:49):
well, a recurring dinner party list
that I've had for years, so I'dhave to move that one to
accommodate.
This one was for Michelle Obamaand Oprah Winfrey.
We just haven't been able tosync up our schedules for that,
so as long as I can move thatdinner party.
Who are my choices?
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (33:06):
I'm sure that they'd probably say
invite me over, I want to havedinner with Abraham Lincoln and
Gandhi.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (33:12):
I'd probably go with Gandhi just
because I had such a resonantexperience in India during the
month of November.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (33:19):
You know what I'm going to add.
One last question.
You've traveled a lot of placesin the world.
What's one place you've been towhere you would absolutely go
back there again, oh?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (33:27):
there are many.
I definitely would go back toIndia.
When I was going there, I knewthat I was going to remember
something.
I didn't know what I was goingthere to remember and I felt
like things were tapped in.
There are different parts ofIndia I'd like to explore next
time.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (33:46):
Well, let's move into our final
section, which is I want youradvice on topics, and one of
them I'd be curious about is youbalance your professional life
as a designer, and then theretreats that you're doing, also
your ministerial life.
What's the biggest challengeyou faced in terms of balancing
all of those, or a piece ofadvice you might give someone on
(34:09):
how to balance having multiplethings going on in your life at
once?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (34:13):
I love the.
I use the metaphor a lot ofspace and particles.
I love the.
I use the metaphor a lot ofspace and particles.
You know, when you are have acareer, you're in studies, one,
you'd be of service, it feelslike you've got lots of balls up
in the air, so it's like ajuggling act.
So one of the things that Iregularly do is I'll just and
sometimes it's even just thewords space and particles shift
(34:37):
my mind to the space, the spacein between the particles.
So it's like there's a lot thatgoes on.
There's a lot of activity, alot of commitments.
A lot of people will want youfrom different perspectives.
If I focus just on the balls inthe air, it can become
overwhelming.
It feels like it's not, it'stoo much, and there's a part of
(34:57):
me that I know I'm like it's not, it's too much, and there's a
part of me that I know I'm likeit's not too much, it's a lot.
But the moment I can shift tothe space, everything sort of
slows down and it gives me theopportunity to.
Well, let me look at this allin the air from all different
angles and perspectives, andmaybe this other one, and then I
can really discern.
(35:18):
This needs more attention rightnow, or this feels like I want
to give more attention to thatso I think a lot of it is not
deceiving myself or kiddingmyself that there's not a lot to
do.
there's a lot to do, but beingusing some tools to really
discern what's mine to do now.
So that's one thing, and thenthe other challenge from my
(35:41):
experience has been my spiritualpath.
It's a very individual personaljourney and the challenge is
find the balance of who do Ishare that with and who don't I.
What do I keep close as anindividual experience?
And to find the comfort zone tobe able to share it with
(36:02):
someone, to share with people,and to realize that there's a
difference between being aloneand being lonely.
I think there are.
Sometimes, when you're on aspiritual path and you're doing
that, there's a lot of alonetime.
Can you be alone without beinglonely?
And when the feelings or theenergy of loneliness start to
creep in, can you be willing toincorporate other people?
(36:26):
And I don't have resentment onthe spiritual path because I'm
perceiving as lonely it's notlonely, but at times can feel
that way.
So that's the challenge, orsome of the challenges.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (36:37):
I love that Last question.
As you look forward, and what'sthat?
Blue?
Blue?
Now I got to think of aquestion for which blue is the
answer.
As you look forward to thefuture of new thought, what
color should all the churches?
No, I'm kidding.
As you look forward to thefuture of new thought spiritual
(37:00):
centers and you know we have alot of after the pandemic, a lot
of things change.
More things online, some thingsin person, still more
experiential.
What do you see from where youare and having experienced all
these in the last three, four,five years, what do you see as
the how new thought spiritualcenters can be most successful?
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtz (37:22):
centers and that are more open at the
top than others.
I don't know.
For me it's also therealization of to be open the
(37:43):
top means you're actually in abox to be.
You know, I think the future ofnew thought is far more
expansive.
So when looking at, for methere were and I think still,
some people of like beingabsolutists of this is the way
that philosophy is, this is howa center should look like.
(38:06):
It kind of goes back to ErnestHolmes saying if you're still
relying completely on what Iwrote in 1926, 28, you missed
the point.
Because life and the evolution,consciousness shifts and grows.
I think the needs for spiritualcenters and connections are
continuing to grow and expandand be outside of the box that
(38:31):
it has been known as, eventhough the lid was open.
We're open at the top, but thecommunity and the need and
desire at times has movedoutside the box.
I don't think the box is bigenough.
So for me, I've gone through, Iwould say, an identity crisis
of feeling like, oh, I'm not bigenough or worthy enough, going
back to using my voice worthyenough or dynamic enough or
(38:56):
whatever for this box worthyenough or dynamic enough or
whatever for this box?
And the truth of the matter is,you know, actually this box is
no longer big enough for me, youknow, and the work that the
world is wanting for so muchbigger, and knowing that this
box, it will be a cornerstoneand a foundational, the lock and
(39:16):
the foundation of who I am, andto be willing to move outside
that and broaden it.
So it's like there are thingsfor me to remember from ancient
india, bringing some of thosevedic truths which for me has
been forgotten to bring backhome.
So I I think it's maybe it's theboxes of tether keeps me
(39:39):
tethered, keeps me safe andkeeps me aligned, like my stake
in the ground is through thisbox with an open top, but to
give myself a really long ropeto go out and to explore.
And I think the other thing isthe experiential.
You know people keep talkingabout the need of that.
It's new thought, you know,even your talk, new thought to
(40:03):
real talk.
So they're moving from here tohere, but for me I think you
need to get from here to here,to in the body.
So there's that experientialmovement of it to sort of bypass
, just keeping it as anintellectual philosophy, wow.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (40:21):
I love that.
I don't think I will ever beable to look up at the ceiling
in our center and not think ofthat idea of being open at the
top and imagining, rememberingit's not a box to contain, it's
a box to be, a departure pointfor what can be even greater and
it even goes back to.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (40:42):
You know the story of a baby
elephant who is chained.
You know their ankles changedand you know rope staked in the
ground and it grows.
And it grows because of theconditioning we think like this
is all that it can look like, orwhen the truth of the matter,
the elephant grows to a placewhere it's a psychological,
(41:04):
mental construct, thinking thatthis chain is going to hold him
back.
I think that can also apply toministry, can apply to spiritual
things.
We've grown up thinking itneeds to look this way, but as
we grow in thought and mind likethere's so many different
directions that we can go, weare so much bigger than the
(41:26):
constructs that are holding usin place.
Yeah, you know and the andthey've served us so incredibly
well.
You know, the box with the lidopen at the top is the
atmosphere that has enabled meto explore and experiment and
play and ultimately to move awayfrom and keep coming back to.
It's like the ongoing hero'sjourney.
(41:48):
Yeah, you know, I think that'swhat's about to go out and learn
, explore and then bring backand share, not necessarily to
preach and say this is the wayit is, but like to come back and
share, not necessarily topreach and say this is the way
it is, but to come back andmodel.
Embodied of this is the lifethat I'm living.
This is what witness and youcan see and be with me, based on
all the experience of going outand coming back.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (42:09):
Yeah, I don't know why, but I'm
reminded of the movie Elf, andif you think about that story,
that's exactly what youdescribed.
Because in the beginning of themovie, when Buddy the Elf is
played by Will Ferrell, there'sscenes where he's so big now
that the box at the North Polewith all the other elves cannot
contain him, so he has to go outhave his adventure in New York.
(42:32):
But what does he do?
At the end of the story?
He comes back and brings thewisdom of what he learned out
there into that box, and nowhe's integrated in a way that he
wasn't before.
Rev. Dr. Eric Overholtzer (42:43):
Yeah, I never thought of it that way.
But I think that's the tool of.
We've all read the same books,we've all taken so many of the
similar classes and really isthe time to really put it into
action, to really embody this,like at a cellular level.
You know, it's one thing tohave the intellectual part, but
(43:04):
then to be able to really havethe cellular memory of it
throughout our body so we canjust live it.
We say new thought, but I thinkthere's a beautiful point in
where you don't need to bethinking about it.
It's just part of who you arebecause it's so incorporated in,
(43:26):
I'll say to myself, of how Imove through life.
I'm not even aware, I don'teven think about that.
It's how deeply rooted it is inthis new thought philosophy,
because I've done the work, I'mcommitted to continue to do the
work and through the ups anddowns of it all, it's just
(43:46):
incorporated.
I move through life at a levelof consciousness which is rooted
in new thoughts.
Because of that, I just gothrough life very differently
than how I once did.
I think that's what I wishother people to experience To be
so comfortable in your skin,going back to for me to get to a
(44:09):
point of being comfortable inmy skin, realizing I'm a work of
art.
This is who I am in the comfortzone.
I'm a work of art, this is whoI am in the comfort zone to be
so comfortable and intimate inthe understanding and the
expression of this philosophythat we're just moving through
as the philosophy.
Rev. Dr. Thor Challgren (44:27):
Well, that is a terrific place to
leave our discussion for now.
Reverend Dr Eric Overholtz, I'mso grateful to you for being
part of this conversation.
Thank you so much for being onthe show today.
All right, have a great day.
Thank you so much for joiningme in this conversation with
Reverend Dr Eric Overholzer.
If you enjoyed this episode,please share it with someone who
(44:49):
might find inspiration inEric's story.
And don't forget to subscribeto All Revved Up for more
conversations designed to upliftand ignite your purpose.
Until next time, I'm Rev DrThor Chalgren.
See you on the next episode ofAll Revved Up.
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