Europe's Hidden Gems - 4 "Second Cities" Worth Visiting - All Things Travel Podcast

Episode Transcript
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ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (00:00):
hello and welcome to all things
travel.
What if I told you there's abetter way to see Europe without
the crowds inflated prices andpossible tourist drops?
Today we're continuing our offthe Beaten Pass series by
sharing four amazing cities thataren't on every Instagram feed
yet, but offer just as muchculture, charm, and adventure.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (00:24):
Listening with travel advisors and
destination experts, Ryan andJulie.
He is your travel professorteaching you everything you need
to know to have a magicalvacation.
And I'm a Disney loving Marylandmom of three and a specialist in
family travel.
we're discussing incredibledestinations, top vacation tips,
or sharing personal stories,it's always all things travel.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_1504 (00:48):
Alright, Julie, so a couple weeks ago you
had put together a off thebeaten path episode of some
really cool cities in the UnitedStates, so I kind of took your
lead and I looked at Europe andthese are not off the beaten
path.
These are.
Kind of second cities, when itcomes to Europe.

(01:08):
These are places people haveheard about, but not often your
first stop on vacation.
And so what I wanna talk abouttoday is why you should rethink
that.
and I know you had talked aboutsplitting Europe up, but as I
got excited about it, I justwanted to talk about a whole
bunch.
that's the tack that I tooktoday.
I'm really excited to getstarted with this.

(01:30):
let's think about Europe, What'sa city that's not necessarily
the high profile city in Europethat you would want to visit?

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (01:40):
Ooh, Palermo.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (01:42):
Talk to me about that.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (01:45):
I remember researching they had
really good food.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (01:47):
Do you have, I know you're Italian by
Heritage.
Do you have a Sicilian, Italianin you?
Is that one of the reasons whyyou wanna visit or you just, uh,
potentially.
Well, then you gotta, you gottago there to find out, don't you?

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (02:00):
yeah.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (02:00):
Well, for me.
I'm gonna go back to my recentriver cruise, and as I was
putting this trip together afterI came back from Bratislava, you
remember how much I enjoyedBratislava, Slovakia.
So I started to kind of thinkabout how you could do that and
then go from there to othercities via the trains.

(02:21):
And so for me today, a lot ofthat is this, right?
how can you extend your trip byfocusing on some of these second
cities?
I don't say that in any sort ofvalue statement it's just the
reality of what the most popularcities are versus the others.
I look at this topic today as away to kind of extend your trip.

(02:41):
So let's get into it.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (02:44):
All right.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (02:45):
But before we do that, I wanna
remind folks if you did notlisten to last week's episode,
Julie and I gave a lot of tipsand recent experiences from both
our Royal Caribbean crews onUtopia, the Seas, and our trip
to Walt Disney World.
So Julie, I wanna talk about whytravel to these second cities in
Europe?
One, they're less crowded, andso since they're less crowded,

(03:08):
they tend to have less touristfocused areas, and so they're a
little more authentic.
They're usually more affordable,and It's easier to connect with
locals and with culture becauseyou're not.
Fighting all the tourists, Theyhave unique experiences that
some of the bigger cities justdon't offer anymore.

(03:28):
And like I just said a minuteago, it's a great way to balance
a trip by adding a second cityto your itinerary that won't
necessarily double the budget.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (03:38):
Yeah.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (03:38):
So the first city I wanna talk about,
and if you've been on a cruise,you might be familiar with this,
but that is Split Croatia.
why do I put split Croatia onthis list?
Well, you've got a mix ofancient history and Adriatic
charms, so you've got thatseaside feel.
You've got the bioclean.

(04:01):
Palace, one of the bestpreserved Roman ruins in the
world, and it's really got thislaid back coastal vibe.
People know Dubrovnik fromcruising, but unless they go on
a smaller yacht cruise orsomething that's very Croatian
or Adriatic Intenses, they'reprobably not going to split.
So that gives it that laid back.

(04:22):
Vibe.
What can we do here?
We can explore that palace,which is an ESCO site without
the major crowds that we'regonna get at other places.
We can do, day trips to some ofthe Adriatic Islands.
How much fun would that be?
Jump aboard a yacht for the dayand do some island hopping.
You can swim at the beach.
There's also hiking on themarjon.

(04:43):
Hill and absolutely you're gonnadine on some fresh seafood at a
local family restaurant there inthe port.
Where am I gonna stay?
If I go to Split, I might stayin Old Town, which is gonna be
charming, walkable, nearhistoric sites.
And again, since it's not atouristy location, you're not

(05:05):
gonna have to wait for.
The ship to board or the busesto leave to have that feeling.
It's gonna be all the time.
You're gonna have that old townfeeling You can stay in the Baus
area, which is closer to thebeaches and the beach clubs.
If you want more of the beachvibe, or you could consider a
boutique hotel or seaside villathat has a view of the harbor,

(05:25):
would this just not be a niceway to relax?

j_1_07-23-2025_15040 (05:29):
beautiful.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_1 (05:29):
Absolutely.
And when would you visit?
You would visit late May to Juneor September for great weather,
fewer crowds in warm water.
July and August.
You are gonna have a higherseason with yacht cruises and
ship, stopovers, but you're notgonna get that inundation of
crowds that you are in otherport spots.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (05:50):
Yeah,

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (05:51):
So Julie, talk about our second
location in Portugal.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (05:55):
Okay, so the next destination is gonna be
Porto Portugal.
This is known for being the portwine capital of the world, which
is obviously why Ryan put it

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (06:05):
Yeah, I mean, I'm done.
I'm going there.
I just booked my ticket.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (06:09):
it has many colorful riverside
neighborhoods and tiledbuildings, so the architecture
is really beautiful.
The locals are very friendly andthere's a good foodie culture,

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (06:20):
it.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (06:20):
is also really important to Ryan.
some of the things to do hereare to visit the

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (06:27):
The LaVar Willow, and that is Julie.
I looked at this when I wasputting this show together.
That is a magical bookstorethat's said to inspire Harry
Potter.
It is the coolest thing ever,and it is so special.
You have to actually get entrytickets to get into this
bookstore because there arestairways all over the place.

(06:50):
There are shelves.
Like, to take the Harry Potterthing.
It looks like olive vander's inplaces.
It is so cool.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (06:56):
Wow, that's crazy.
Okay, so you can also take aDuro River cruise through the
Vineyard Valleys.
Tour historic port Wine cellarsand Browse the boho market and
sample local cheeses andpastries.
There's a couple great places tostay here.

(07:17):
the RA District, which is alongthe river.
It's really scenic and centralSfia, which is artsy, it's
quieter, think more of aboutique style stay, and there's
also many charming guest housesand wine themed hotels in the
area.
The best time to visit will beApril through June, and then

(07:38):
also September and October forgreat weather, more the wine
harvesting, and obviously youknow a little bit.
Less crowd, even though there'snot gonna be a crowd you wanna
avoid August and July becauseit's gonna be really hot and
potentially more crowded.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (07:54):
I love the idea of pairing this with
Adora River Cruise.
I love the idea of pairing this,with Lisbon or the Azos in
Portugal, or even Madrid.
I think this just sounds like areally cool town to visit.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (08:08):
Agreed.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (08:10):
So Julie, I've got two more for
you, but before we do that, Iwanna talk about where in the
world is all things travel.
we've got another greatinternational spot and that is
Lahore, Pakistan.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (08:24):
Ooh.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (08:25):
So Lahore, Pakistan, as I looked at
things to do, somebody had agreat sightseeing tour where
they did the Lahore fort The badShahi Mosque.
They did the ancient walledcity, which is part of Lahore's,
NewCo program.

(08:45):
They have gardens and tombs.
So there's a lot of reallyinteresting historical things to
see when you visit Lahore, andI'd love to do that with our
listener.
And hey, if you.
Do us a favor.
I would love to send a littlethank you gift all the way to
Pakistan, and I promise thatI'll do it.
I always send it when peoplereach out.

(09:06):
So do me a favor, reach out toJulie or myself on Wonder and
beyond travel.com and clickcontact us and I will be sending
an all things travel goodieyour.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (09:18):
Ooh, awesome.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (09:20):
All right, Julie.
So this third destination I'veactually been to,'cause this was
part of my tulip time rivercruise, and this is Antwerp
Belgium.
I was only there a day, but Ican tell you this is an
absolutely gorgeous, beautifulcity Antwerp Belgium.
Is the diamond capital of theworld.
They take their diamondindustry, their diamond business

(09:41):
very, very seriously.
In fact, there's been somefamous heists here that evolve
like intricate undergroundvaults and all sorts of good
stuff.
it's also homed to Belgiansfashion scene and avant-garde
design.
And what's really cool is thisis the classic European city of
history and trendiness mixedtogether.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (10:04):
Wow.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (10:05):
So what can we do here?
We could tour the DiamondDistrict, by visiting the
Diamond Museum.
We can shop in the fashiondistrict, which is the National
Trot.
We can join a chocolate makingworkshop or beer tasting tour.
actually, this was my excursionwhen we visited Antwerp.
We did a food tour of Antwerp.
Where we did beer tasting,chocolate tasting.

(10:28):
french fries, and then we didwaffles, it was absolutely
fabulous.
They have a beautiful square inthe downtown central part of
Antwerp where you can admire thecathedral of our lady and the
Groat market square.
it's just a really good city.
I've looked at it before fortravelers.
You're talking about Severalhours to Amsterdam.

(10:50):
You're talking a very quicktrain ride to Bruge and to
France.
You can do this city with a lotof other components in Europe.
Where are we gonna stay?
We're gonna stay in either thehistoric center, near the
cathedral, lots of shoppingthere, or we're gonna stay in
the Harbor District where it'smore trendy, modern, and close
to lots of museums in Anw.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (11:12):
Lots of good stuff

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (11:12):
Oh, lots of good stuff to do.
When are we gonna go?
We're gonna go in spring, whichis April to June or early
September.
We're using those shouldermonths to our advantage where
there's often milder weather andcultural events.
And remember in Europe, Decemberhas great Christmas markets, so
that may be a reason to visitAntwerp.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (11:34):
Mm-hmm.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (11:35):
could say, Steven, I've got an idea.
Let's go to a Christmas marketin Antwerp.
you know what it is, it's thediamond capital of the world.
What can we do there, Steven?
when it comes to shopping forChristmas,

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (11:48):
Maybe in a couple years.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (11:50):
that's not quite the time of life that
you're in.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (11:53):
not quite there yet,

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (11:55):
a very different, feel is Valencia,
Spain, and that's our fourthoption today.
Tell us all about that, Julie.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (12:03):
I know why you picked this place, Ryan,
because it is the birthplace ofpaa.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (12:07):
You know, can't help, but the great
food comes from great places.
that's not the be all end all,most of the time.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (12:15):
Ryan's weeding out what places we're
gonna talk about.
He's like good food.
That one's in.
It's also known for itsinnovative architecture and
sandy beaches.
There's also a lot of vibrantfestivals and local traditions.
A couple of the great things todo in Valencia to visit the city
of Arts and Sciences.
Don't miss the Oceanographic.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (12:37):
the oceanographic is this amazing
aquarium.
they have a campus of the cityof arts and sciences, kind of
like what Chicago does, whereall their museums and everything
is kind of together, and theaquarium in particular, it just
looks fantastic.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (12:55):
You can think about relaxing at the
beach or biking through somelocal gardens.
Explore the central market, ofcourse, and try authentic pa sip
horchata at a historic cafe inOld Town.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (13:09):
I am gonna take a PA and making
class.
If I go to Valencia.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (13:13):
I can't wait.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (13:14):
Yeah.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (13:14):
a couple places to consider staying is an
old town where there's a lot ofhistory, cafes and nightlife.
If you're looking for somethinga little more trendy, artsy is a
good place to be.
Or there's a lot of beachfronthotels.
If you want easy access to thesand and NC.
The best time to visit is thoseshoulder season months, so May

(13:36):
to June or September andOctober.
If you go a little earlier inMarch, there's a nice festival
going on and there's fireworksand crowds If you wanna be able
to celebrate that.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (13:48):
Yeah, very cool.
Valencia would say is probably,uh.
Out of this list, one that morepeople go to.
if you're gonna do Spain andyou're gonna do multiple cities,
it's a good chance that Lindsayis one of'em.
But I think it, it does offersomething that Madrid and
Barcelona do not when it comesto some lower crowds and some

(14:09):
different options.
So.
Just to reiterate some of theseideas, you could use these
second cities to slow down yourtrip or connect more deeply.
You could add one to a classicalitinerary.
So for instance, pairing Portowith Lisbon, or split with
Dubrovnik.
I would say too, you know, wetalk about them being second

(14:29):
cities, but we've heard of allof these, so they're not gonna
be that way for long.
And as travel trends change andas people look for different
places, why not go now?
you can be the one that wasthere first, based on your
Instagram feed and talking toall your friends over coffee.
work with one of us, a traveladvisor.
When you're booking a place likethis, because we're gonna be

(14:51):
able to do a deep dive and findsome of the things that are off
the beaten path as far asdifferent tours, boutique stays.
that's where these second citiesreally shine.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (15:02):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (15:03):
So, Julius, we wrap up.
Which of these excite you themost?

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (15:08):
Oh, I think Valencia, Spain.
you sold me with paella andbeaches.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (15:14):
you can have paella on the beach.
I love that.
So for me, I really think Portojust because Portugal's not a
place that I've been.
Um, and I, I think that would bean exciting place to see and,
and really experience inconjunction with some other
place that I'm visiting.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (15:33):
And wine.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (15:35):
And wine.

j_1_07-23-2025_150409 (15:38):
The world is full of wonder, and your next
great adventure is waiting.
At Wonder and Beyond Travel, wework with you to create a one of
a kind journey, taking thestress off your plate so you can
focus on the joy of exploringand the memories that will stay
with you forever.
If you're ready to startplanning or just want to dream a
little bigger, head over toWonder and beyond travel.com.

(15:59):
We'd love to help you getstarted.

ryan_2_07-23-2025_150409 (16:01):
we look forward to talking to you
next week on all things travel.

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Europe's Hidden Gems - 4 "Second Cities" Worth Visiting

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;} Europe's Hidden Gems - 4 "Second Cities" Worth Visiting