Can I Truly Know God's Will & Direction For My Life?

Ever wonder if you can truly know God's will and direction for your life? Are you stuck wondering if the path you're considering is truly God's will or just your own desire? 

In this personal episode, Dave Leake takes you through his own journey of discerning God's calling, revealing the internal struggles and spiritual wrestling that come with making life-altering decisions. From battling self-doubt to overcoming the fear of choosing the "wrong" path, Dave and his father Jeff unpack the messy, real-world process of listening for God's voice.

Join us as we explore the principles of divine guidance, breaking down the myths that God's will must always be the hardest or least desirable option. Whether you're a ministry leader, entrepreneur, or simply someone seeking clarity in your next life chapter, this episode offers practical insights into recognizing God's leading. Discover how to navigate the foggy middle ground between personal ambition and spiritual calling, and learn how to step confidently into the future God has prepared for you.

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@Dave.Leake

Episode Transcript

Dave Leake (00:00):
Discerning God's will for your life can be

(00:02):
tricky, especially wheneverwe're not sure whether it's just
something that I want orsomething that God's leading us
into. In fact, me and my familyare on a really personal
journey. Today, we're gonnaunveil some big news about the
leek family and talk about thejourney that God's led us on,
and then maybe principles thathave come out of my story about
determining how we figure outthe difference between what is

(00:25):
really God and what's just meand dealing with the pressure of
a foggy future. If you're in themiddle of determining God's will
for your life and there's not alot of clarity, then this is the
perfect episode for you to tunein. Hey everybody, welcome to
the Allison Park leadershippodcast where we talk about
culture creating conversations.
My name is Dave. My

Jeff Leake (00:44):
name is Jeff, and of course, we're father and son
both at Allison Park Church, andwe're glad you're with us for
this podcast. So Dave, give us aupdate. Do we have any shout
outs real quick to give peopleon on social media?

Dave Leake (00:57):
Absolutely. Yeah. So one thing we do here is we want
to give a shout out to anybodythat gives us a five star review
on a platform that lets us seethe name of the reviewer. And
this week we want to shout out,Blaze white, what's up? Blaze,
yeah, thanks for your view, bro.
Blaze, one of our APLA students,awesome guy, going to Africa
with me. You know, I guess we'reI'm recording this before we go.
Yeah, we're gonna go in eightdays. All right,

Jeff Leake (01:18):
so tell us about that. Where are you going, and
what are we doing with thestudents? That's kind of an
interesting lead in, yeah,

Dave Leake (01:24):
well, we're going to Merrill, Kenya, okay, which is a
rural part just south of Sudan,I guess, not so far off the
border. I think, I think it'sbecause I think they were going
up through there to get tosouth, standing for Anyway,
point being, we're going therewith mission. SOS, that's
evangelist Johannes. Isorganization that he leads.
We're going to third with team,probably about 150 we're going

(01:47):
to preach the gospel on thestreets,

Jeff Leake (01:49):
not all 150 or from Allison park, but correct,
collectively, we're probablybringing how many 50 between?
Well, between Chi Alpha andAllison Park Church. Okay, so
explain those two organizations.
Chi Alpha is what

Dave Leake (02:02):
it is, a college campus ministry focused on
evangelism and discipling thosewho get saved from the
University

Jeff Leake (02:08):
of Pittsburgh, specifically University of
Pittsburgh here and then inAlice Park Leadership Academy
is, this is the graduating classof 2025 and sort of like the
grand finale of our school yearis to go on some kind of
missions practice, right? Yeah,yeah, it's going

Dave Leake (02:22):
to be great. So we're headed there, and the very
beginning of May, May 2,

Jeff Leake (02:26):
never been to Kenya, but I know the SOS base is there
in kilgores, and I know theKenyan people are incredible
leaders and a big foundation ofwhat's going on there with the
SOS Evangelistic Ministries.
Yeah, it's so great to see withSOS how Kenyans and Tanzanians
and Burundians serve alongsideof Americans and Swedes and and

(02:49):
and so forth to make these youknow, leaders of the missions
organization based there atkilgores and then reaching
capital cities all over Africa.
It's beautiful, so we'll bepraying for you that everything
goes well there. And again,we're father and son. I'm the
lead pastor at Allison ParkChurch. Dave is the campus

(03:11):
pastor at the north side. Andthis podcast will be different
than any other podcast we'veever done, and because it's very
personal, right? There's goingto be some personal stuff we're
going to talk about specificallyrelated to Dave's calling and
life and ministry. So we'regoing to announce, this is the
big reveal. We're going toannounce some things on this

(03:32):
podcast. If you're regularlisteners and you want to know
what's up, then stay tuned,because we're going to talk
about those things movingforward. So where should we
start this conversation today?
Dave,

Unknown (03:44):
well, I can just, I'll just reveal, okay,
we can just hold

Dave Leake (03:48):
it for a minute. I don't think, I don't think
that's the, I think that's whatI usually want to say, no. So,
yeah, big. So the big news thiswill have been after I've
already shared it, you know,with the North Side campus, but
me and my wife Sarah feel likeGod's calling us to plant the
church, and so we are movingprobably sometime early this

(04:10):
fall, to Jacksonville, Florida,wow, to plant a church there. So
how

Jeff Leake (04:15):
dare you take my two grandsons for me?

Dave Leake (04:19):
Do you encounter?
Yeah, we'll see. We're not doneyet too so, but no, so, so you
currently, we're campus pastorsat the North Side location,
right? But that won't be muchlonger crazy, you know, we're,
we're taking the summer to, youknow, to kind of wrap some
things up. We've been servinghere for 12 years now. I guess I
have Sarah, and I will havebeen, you know, married seven in

(04:42):
July, but 12 years of ministryhere, and, you know, we feel
like God's moving us on. And Ithink that that's the that's the
train of thought, the line oflogic we're going to discuss in
this podcast. It's been ajourney for us. Yes, and we've
had a lot of conversations onthese podcasts about discerning

(05:02):
God's will and taking a stepand, you know, walking through
the foggy middle and all thesedifferent kind of recently, and
even recently, yeah, some ofthat probably too is because
Benton and I've been processing,sure, so but today, um, we're
gonna, we're gonna spend sometime talking about untangling
the threads of what might be mydesire versus what God's will

(05:26):
is, you know, like, how do wehow do we really discern, like,
is what I'm doing, or is what Iwant to do, what God wants me to
do? Or is there sometimes adifference of divergence, like,
how do I know that what I'm ifmy goal is to follow God's will,
to follow the path he's layingout for me, how do I know the
difference between mine andGod's obviously, if it's sinful,

(05:48):
you know, my desire is to murdersomebody or something. That's
not hard to untangle. But whenit's like, a good thing, like, I
feel like maybe I want to plantthe church, you know, like, how
do you

Jeff Leake (06:04):
untangle those threads? And you have done that,
yes, at least begun to do that,right? Because you've made this
decision. And so and theseconversations, a lot of the
things we may talk about in thisepisode are conversations we've
had privately that we're goingto, you know, now have again for
the benefit of everybody intrying to figure this out moving

(06:25):
forward. So let me, let me justgive a couple of
distinguishments here, becausesomebody listening might not
understand. So the differencebetween a campus and a church
plan is just simply, AllisonPark has three locations each
named Allison Park Church, allthroughout the Pittsburgh
region, one in Butler, one inHampton Township and one in the
north side. Being a campuspastor means that you are a part

(06:49):
of the global organization,which means that a lot of things
are centralized for you. We haveone set of books. We have one
board. There's a lot of thingslike social media and
communications and marketing andfinances and administration that
happens at the global level, sothat, basically, a campus pastor
can pay attention to caring forthe people, contextualizing

(07:12):
ministry to the community andproviding ministry with the
Allison Park DNA at thatparticular location, what you're
getting ready to do is leave theAllison Park Church campus
family, and you're going to moveto another city, and you're
going to start a brand newcongregation that will stand on
its own. It'll have its ownboard, its own finances, its own

(07:32):
vision, its own direction, andit's going to be in a brand new
space, which is in Jacksonville,Florida. So Dave, you grew up
here at Allison Park Church. Ofcourse, you're my oldest son.
You were born the same weekendthat I became the interim
pastor. So your entire life, youhave, other than going to
Springfield, Missouri for youreducation, this has been your

(07:55):
home church. Yeah. And in thefall, you felt like God spoke to
you that you were not supposedto stay here, right? So unpack
that for us.

Dave Leake (08:07):
Okay, so, all right, so can I get, can I don't share
all the details? Yeah, go. Idon't think it's a problem, but
it's like a this will paint thefull picture. It's probably
actually helpful. People willprobably like, would probably
like to hear this anyway. Allright, so you have a plan that's
outlined. I do, yeah, of yourtransition at APC, sure. So

(08:30):
there's about six more yearsleft. You started a 10 year
transition plan where you'regoing to step out of the main
role and, you know, assume asort of a different role, but
not not as the head of AllisonPark Church. At what age is that
going to be? 67 Yeah, okay,right. And that will be 40 years

Jeff Leake (08:46):
I will have. So I became the pastor here in 1991 I
will go till 2031 it'll be 40years as the lead pastor in that
role. So I'm going to turn 61here in a few weeks. So that
means I have six years left.

Dave Leake (09:02):
So we had a conversation, which, actually,
this is kind of funny now that Ithink about it. It was at a it
was at a pit game, which we hadanother one that's going to come
up, but years and years ago. Andyou said, hey, I want, like,
this is probably five years agoat least. So we're at a pit
basketball game, yeah, pitbasketball game. And you said, I
want you to think about maybetaking over for me someday. Not

(09:26):
that, not that you were saying Ishould, but, like, consider
this. Pray about this. Yeah, doyou know what your future that's
God's asking you to do? I don'twant to hold you back from doing
whatever that is. I know you'rethinking about planning a church
even at that time. Yes,initially I was thinking that
was the I'll get to that in asecond. But I'd like you to
consider, you know, thisprocess, yeah,

Jeff Leake (09:44):
so what I said to you is not that you'd be the
only person I'd be thinkingabout, right, but you would be
in the mix of potentials thatcould fill that role down the
road. So it's not like we weregrooming you to be the guy, no,
right? We were just basicallysaying you should. Be in the
conversation. Yeah,

Dave Leake (10:01):
yeah. And so that started a series of meetings
that we would have a coupletimes a month where you would be
giving thoughts and advice abouthow you're leading that we could
then explore like

Jeff Leake (10:16):
so basically, I started meeting with you and
Josh as my two oldest of foursons and a daughter. And we
started meeting. We called itthe young studs meeting. You
called it young study too fair.
And my thought was in thisjourney. So I had seen other
pastors who had sons that workedwith them to do this, and that
was I want to spend timebringing you in on my thought

(10:38):
process of leadership, where youcould ask any question that you
want to ask, about what it is tobe the lead pastor. Here my
philosophy of ministry on somethings and in the process that
either prepares one of youpotentially to be a possible
candidate for that role, or ifyou're not, and you end up going
to do something else, it justprepares you for whatever God's

(10:59):
called you to do, right? Becauseboth of you, I think you and
Josh will end up as lead pastorsomewhere at some point, sure.
And the the thing that happenedin that actual meeting is, not
only did I maybe unpack somethings to you guys, but you also
spoke into my life. I actuallythink this is one of the things
that has benefited Allison ParkChurch is that part of the

(11:20):
reason why Allison Park hasgrown younger in age over the
last decade, because theattendees of Allison Park Church
are getting younger, is becauseI have allowed you guys to also
speak into my life and to how Ilead, so that I can lead more
with the sensitivity to the nextgeneration. So a lot of those
conversations ended up beingshaping, some things

(11:42):
philosophically sure that reallyhelped this church become more
effective, right? Anyway, so

Dave Leake (11:50):
so that that was the type of meeting that we had
where this conversation that wassort of life altering for me
took place. And it was Septemberof 2024, and I just gotten back
from, I guess it was actuallyAugust, end of August. But I
just gotten back from a missiontrip where I was teaching in the
SOS bible school in Kenya,kilgores Kenya, got back and you

(12:15):
were just saying, you know, sostill on this journey, have you
guys thought more about whatGod's asking you to do? Like,
what God's calling it to do?
Either you feel like there's asense that God's asking you to
consider being the lead pastor.
And I was like, not really,like, I would do that if that's
what God asks me to do. But it'snot necessarily an ambition that
I have. I'm just kind of movingforward in the next step. And,

(12:35):
you know, I'm fully invested inthe north side campus, and it's
been such a blessing to be myfamily, to be there wonderful
people. It feels like a verymissional campus, and it's
growing, and there's a hugeyoung adult contingent that's
there people that are hungry toworship and all this. So it was
like, I don't really have anysense. And we started talking
about just APC things, and itcame up that, you know, there

(13:00):
are certain, essentially, I'mjust telling how the
conversation went. There arecertain limitations that are on
different types of cities. Ifyou're in New York, it's one
sort of vibe. And if you're inPittsburgh, Pittsburgh is a
stable housing market, you know,but it's a smaller city, and so
it's in general, it's a littlesafer. But, you know, every
different city God can call youto as sort of a different

Jeff Leake (13:19):
Pittsburgh. It's neighborhood based. It's
separated by three rivers. It'sdoesn't have huge major highway
systems running through it. Sothere's some particular way that
you would approach reachingPittsburgh that would be
different than reaching New YorkCity or Columbus, Ohio or
Jacksonville, Florida, exactly.
And

Dave Leake (13:35):
so we're having this conversation, and you were like,
Have either of you guys, youknow, Dave or Josh? Either of
you guys thought about, youknow, stepping out and taking
over a church, or planting, andyou were saying, like, most
churches are looking to hirelead pastors in the age range of
about 35 to 45 and I'm, I was,you know, going to be turning 34

(13:56):
and a handful of months. I'm not34 you're like, you're kind of
right in that prime age range.
And I was like, I don't thinkso. Like, I mean, I could, but I
just that's also not really anambition of mine. And so then
the conversation took anotherturn. We started talking about
business and

Jeff Leake (14:10):
stuff, and just to be fair, for Josh, both of both
of you said, I don't know. Like,when we talked about the future
succession plan of Allison ParkChurch, I think it's still like,
I don't know, but you basicallysaid probably not. And Josh was
like, I don't know, right? So Ithink that, and just so that
people who are listening to thisfrom Allison park or interested

(14:30):
in succession planning, we won'teven begin to look at who the
future pastor should be foranother two years. So two more
years of doing what we're doing,and then we'll start to build
the profile of what does thatfuture pastor look like. And
then we'll start a searchprocess. So this thing that I've

(14:51):
been doing with you and Josh hasbeen sort of private and on the
side, and not with the design ofbeing a king maker, right,
right, right, but more of adesign to make. You to be
prepared for whatever God'scalled you to do, knowing that,
that you know there are thesepossibilities that could have
been there for either of you.

Dave Leake (15:07):
Well, I mean, you're our dad, so it's like it's not
the same thing as a lead pastor,like, mostly I It feels more
like it's been as much or morefather son box. That's what it's
been about, leadership andministry. Yeah, more than it's
been preparing for a role. Wekind of rarely talk about role
stuff, and more like lifeprinciples and lessons that

(15:29):
you've learned as lead pastor.
And we're like, so why do you dothis thing this way? And you're
like, Well, this is kind of howI've learned to do it, which has
been helpful, which is a lot

Jeff Leake (15:37):
of what we do on the podcast too. So it is, I guess
you could say, If you wonderwhat goes on in those lunches
that we've had together, it'sbeen a lot of podcast
conversations. Some

Dave Leake (15:45):
podcasts have directly come out of those
countries. A lot of them have,yeah, anyway that conversation
ends, and I don't, I don't know,it must have been like a
Tuesday. It was like the rest ofthat week, like, Wednesday,
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, I Istarted, I like, it's hard to
describe this feeling. If you'veever had this, you'll you'll

(16:05):
recognize it. It felt like I wasbothered, or almost like I had
like, it's about to say anxiety,that sounds like a negative
thing, but like, I felt like Godwas stirring something. And I
like, was like, oh, maybe am Isupposed to do this. Like, I
don't, I don't know that I evenwant to do this. But like, I so
the conversation we had we'retalking about this is like, I

(16:27):
could probably do this, like,right now. Like, it's not like I
have to acquire other skills,like, do what, plan a church, or
take over a church, become alead pastor in some form. Like,
I think I could do that rightnow. I think I, I'm probably
ready for that, because, like,you know, at the North Side
campus, like, I've been writingand preaching my own messages
for a year and a half. Andthere's some things I haven't
had to do that you do as a leadpastor, that I'll have to learn.

(16:48):
But like by and large, a lot ofit's directly transferable. It's
like, I probably could do that.
And then it became like, I thinkmaybe I'm supposed to do that.
And it was, I mean, it was sucha left turn out of nowhere for
me that I think there probablywas a little bit of a mix of
anxiety, like, oh man. Like,that's wild. Like, what if I'm
supposed to, you know, what'seven gonna be like, I was

(17:10):
telling Sarah, like, I, I thinkmaybe we're supposed to start
looking and she was like, Idon't know. Like, and, you know,
Sarah is very pregnant at thatpoint, like, we have, you know,
Johnny, our second born is bornNovember 8, so this is sort of
couple of months out. She's inher last trimester. She's like,
I don't know. I can't even thinkabout that. I'm just feeling
stirred. So I talked to mom atsome point, she tends to hear

(17:32):
from God pretty well. And I waslike, you know, did you talk to
dad about this? Oh yeah, wealready had a conversation. And
I was like, I think it wassupposed to go like, you know,
become a senior pastor who'slike, I think you are too. And I
was like, Oh, it sort of likesettled on me when she said
that. Now I was like, Oh, shoot.
Like, I think I am. Isn't that

Jeff Leake (17:53):
funny how oftentimes that's the that's the result of
the Revelation when it gets realclear what the will of God is,
rather than yay, I know it'smore like, oh no. That's
happened to be many times whereGod gives you an assignment and
it's bigger than you thinkyou're ready for, and it makes
you feel both grateful butalmost overwhelmed at the same

(18:13):
time.

Dave Leake (18:14):
I think even with this one, it wasn't that I
thought I wasn't ready for it.
It's that I felt like this isgoing to be a lot, and it's not
like a lot that I haven't beenanticipating for a year or three
years, and it's like I have aplan and I'm building towards
this. This is like everythingI've been focused on is building
the North Side campus, and thenit was just like a little
grenade that God tossed outthere that was going to disrupt

(18:36):
everything. So began a process.
We begin to a search andbuilding a resume and looking
across the country, yeah, andthen

Jeff Leake (18:44):
very specifically on what I remember you saying is,
we're not supposed to be stay inPittsburgh. Yes, we're supposed
to leave Pittsburgh and gosomeplace else in the country,
and you name several regionsthat you felt drawn to, yeah.
And immediately there was aconnection made with an
opportunity in the northwest,

Dave Leake (19:01):
Pacific Northwest, yep. And we explored that, and
God closed that door. And youknow, that was totally fine

Jeff Leake (19:07):
an existing church that was looking for a pastor,
right? And you went through,what, three or four interviews,
yeah, right. And didn't turn outto be the thing. And

Dave Leake (19:15):
yeah, and that was going to be a huge, huge move
for us, but it looked like it

Jeff Leake (19:19):
might be, that it did look like and it took quite
a while, so when that finallythat door closed, it was sort of
like, okay,

Dave Leake (19:27):
yeah, that's how it felt. So, you know, at this
point, we're talking likeFebruary, and so here's Okay, so
here's like, I know this is along story, yeah, but it's a
significant life event for me,and you're kind of hearing the
birth of this church that we'regoing to plant,

Jeff Leake (19:46):
yeah, and I think part of hearing someone else's
story, when you're thinkingabout discerning God's will, you
may relate to some of theexperiences and principles that
we'll talk about here. So Ithink there's a value we also
may, in this process, inspire.
Somebody who's maybe had thesame leaning, like, maybe you're
supposed to step out and plant achurch or start a business or do
something, and you're hearingthis, and you're like, I think

(20:07):
this is a confirmation thatmaybe I'm thinking the right
thing too, so, or maybe God'sjust confirming that you're
supposed to stay where you are.
But yeah, so Okay, take usfurther.

Dave Leake (20:16):
It's now February of 2025 and the doors in the
Pacific Northwest are shut, andthat's okay with us. You know
that was going to be like afterwe have a real peace, but it's
sort of back to square one. Andnow rewind when I first got into
ministry. So I graduated fromCentral Bible College in

(20:37):
Springfield, Missouri in May of2013 and moved back home, was
exploring a lot ofopportunities. And I thought,
like, you know, early thatsummer, like, Maybe I'm supposed
to plant a church. And I hadalready done, like, a portfolio
of a city where I would plant asa project in Bible college. So I
was looking at Hartford,Connecticut. There were very few

(20:58):
churches there at the time, Ithink this, it's still a needy
city, honestly, for churches.
But

Jeff Leake (21:04):
shortly after that, you and Gilbert Ackerman and I
drove all the way up throughupstate New York, up to Vermont
to visit a church planter upthere, down through New
Hampshire, and then eventuallyto Hartford, yep, where we were
also working with a churchplanter there. And that was sort
of a spiritual exploration tripto see if maybe God would speak
to you. Well,

Dave Leake (21:23):
you didn't. We didn't have church planter there
yet, because he ended upplanting world, yeah. But we
were, at least we were lookingat, we, yeah. Okay, so that's
the story. I think I'm gonnaplant there. I have about six
months where I was working asthe church plant, church plant
relations direct director, orsomething like that.
Essentially, I was helping toresource people in the process
of planting. This was at thebeginning of the 100 church

(21:45):
vision that God gave to you,that we had for 10 years, that
God did realistically in fiveyears. It was a wild time. And I
was thinking like, I thinkHartford, so essentially
located. This would be a greatplace to be and to multiply out
of there. And then God closedthat door, and I felt like this
isn't the right time. And I feltlike I was supposed to step into
youth ministry, which is notnever what I wanted to do

(22:06):
initially, but I felt like Godprompted me take this step. So I
did. And I was like, three yearsthat I'm planting, and then it
became maybe five years, andthen I ended up being there for
seven years. And then I wasthinking, well, maybe I'll plant
now. And it was like, No. Andthen the North Side campus
position opened up. And I hadbeen thinking because it was a
city reach church plant before,which is a very urban you know,

(22:27):
a lot of these guys were formergangsters, like drug runners,
you know, checkered history, andnow they got saved. They've
created testimony, but they'relike, from an area like that,
where I grew up in HamptonTownship, super white kid, yeah,
exactly, you know? Yeah,pastors. Kid, so I was like, I
don't know if this is a fit. Godasked me to do it, and then it's

(22:49):
been wonderful. So all of thatled me to this moment where, out
of nowhere, it's like, Okay,we're back to square one. I know
I'm supposed to leave. Maybeit's church finding, but I've
investigated this so much that Ihave a profile in my mind of
what an ideal church planterlooks like. And there are some
attributes that are not asnatural to me that would take a

(23:10):
lot to step into. Namely, liketheir prototype church planners
are amazing gatherers. They walkinto them, they're like, hey,
and they people are like, wow, Iwant to go with them. Like,
that's awesome. And I can, I canbe like that. But it's like,
it's going outside of my naturalpersonality a little bit. It's

(23:31):
like, I don't know if I want todo this. So you were now we're
at another pit basketball game,like, 10 years later, which is
hilarious, and maybe not 10 five

Jeff Leake (23:39):
probably lost both of them.

Dave Leake (23:42):
But it got worse over time, though, because,
anyway, so, so we're at thisgame, and they're getting
they're getting killed, and it'sa really bad basketball game,
and we're talking about where wecould go. And you were like, if
you were going to church plantanywhere in the country, you
know, where would you want togo? And I was like, I don't know
if I want to plan. You're like,yeah, yeah. But if you did,
where would you go? And I waslike, Well, I was like, well,

(24:04):
here's here's our process. Ifeel like we've prayed about the
Northeast, and I feel like Godshut that down. I felt like a
no, and I feel like the Midwestis a no, and the deep south
really doesn't feel like us. Wewere considering a lot of West
place, like West US, west coast,but now that we've been there,
like it's such a far distancefrom family, if God called us,
we would do it. But doesn't feellike it's exactly a fit. And I

(24:27):
was like, randomly, I sort offeel like the southeast coast,
like North Carolina on downthrough Florida, is what we feel
drawn to. I was like, I wasgonna plant somewhere. It'd
probably be Jacksonville,Florida. And you were like, Why
Jacksonville? And I was like,Well, you know, Sarah has family
down there, and I have somefriends down there that went to
school with and, you know, itkind of has the right vibe of
the kind of city I'd want to bein, but I don't even know. And

(24:49):
you're like, well, let's plan atrip. So you plan a trip in
February. Then I went to CMNconference in Houston, church
multiplication network that theAssemblies of God has as the
church planting arm of our. Thenomination. And you know, it's a
good conference, and I happen tostop there's breakout sessions.
After one of the main conferencesessions, you go pick your room

(25:09):
and your speaker. And I stoppedin the hallway, and you know,
Pastor Brad leach was there,planted city life Philly, and he
just was asking me, how's thesearch going, like he knew I was
in the process, and essentially,like he just shared his story,
which was so similar, like,almost identical, in terms of

(25:30):
what he went through, almostwent to a different church, and
then God closed that door andhad reservations about going
where he ended up, because hewas sort of like, this feels
like, you know, easier than whatI thought I was going to call me
to he was thinking, maybeAmsterdam one point. And anyway,
he kind of helped to debunk someof the concerns and fears I had.
So I was like, okay, like, maybethis is real. And finally, maybe

(25:51):
about two weeks ago, we went toJacksonville, and when we're
down there, I was like, sohere's here's now. I guess the
tension that I had that this 25minutes of story building you've
gotten to, yeah, I got there andI was like, this is incredible.
Like, it is so nice here. Youknow, we used to drive like, 16
hours down in the summer forvacation to go to the sort of

(26:13):
just south of the Panama Cityarea in Florida. And I've always
had a special place in my heartthere. My grandparents had a
little, small home there thatthey would let us stay in. Me
and Sarah, we took, you know,$100 flights down to the Tampa,
Arizona, sort of Sarasota area,Bradenton. So we loved it. We
get to Jacksonville, it's like,this place is amazing. Like, it

(26:33):
would

Unknown (26:34):
be like, Could God call me to someplace I want to live?

Dave Leake (26:36):
Yeah, it felt like, like, this would, I mean,
selfishly, you know, it's likepeople that, like, you're like,
Oh, we're gonna go, you know, toa missions trip to Jamaica. And
I know they have need there, butat first year that you're like,
you're gonna be at the sandyresort half the time. I mean,
like, Mission strip, sure, butyou're also going because it's
Jamaica, you know, no no distingon Jamaica. But so I that kind

(26:58):
of was the feeling I had, almostlike, this is so beautiful here.
It's warm. They never have todeal with Pittsburgh winters.
You know, it's, it's it's more.
There are more days of sun thanthere are in Jacksonville than
there are days of cloudinesshere, which is wild. We're the
second cloudiest city inAmerica, and they're one of the
sunniest. I mean, it's amazing.
And so I think Sarah and I aredriving around. It's me, you

(27:20):
Sarah, and then our son John,who's four months old, he's in
the back of his car drivingaround the city. And I was just
like, God, I really hope yougive me like a lightning bolt,
like pow moment where it's like,we're supposed to come, because
I don't know how we're gonnadifferentiate, like, we would
love to be here, but I don'twant to go somewhere unless I
feel like you're in this andyou're in this and you're

(27:41):
leading us, and I know you'releading us somewhere, so like we
just want to know, and we neverreally got that moment. And so
it's sort of at this point, Ithis is exactly what the
conversation sounds like. We'rewe've been driving around
Jacksonville for, you know, halfa day. We started in, you know,
the Jacksonville North Sidedrove down, the west side, came
down all the way to StAugustine, and kind of came back

(28:03):
up,

Jeff Leake (28:04):
by the way, big shout out to St Augustine. What
a beautiful, beautiful, yes,right on the coast.

Dave Leake (28:08):
And so we're coming back up. And I'm like, so we
love this, but like, help us,because I don't think either of
us has had a moment that it'slike, you know, prophetic word
from God, like, this is it. Andwe just don't want to, want to
go for not supposed to be here.
And then you kind of had a lotof thoughts that helped me to
discern so I

Jeff Leake (28:28):
guess I just, I just reflected back everything I
heard from you, right? Yeah, so,

Dave Leake (28:31):
so, so let's talk about this, because I think
maybe that there would be someprinciples and some of our
conversation. Yeah.

Jeff Leake (28:38):
First thing I said is, when God calls you to a
place. It doesn't have to besome place you hate, right? So a
lot of times, I think whathappens with people is they
think, if it's the will of God,it has to be hard. It's like
people will say, don't say youdon't want to go to wherever,
because he's going to make yougo there, right? Don't say you
don't want to do this, becausethen God will almost like he's
waiting to punish you withsomething like Siberia, yeah. So

(29:01):
I said, you know, you got a bugon your microphone. Please

Unknown (29:06):
freak me out,

Jeff Leake (29:08):
yeah, one of those stink bugs that crawl on the

Unknown (29:11):
day you put that away.
What if that one got my face?
That would have been that, orflew into your mouth? That would
have been a moment. Okay.
Anyway, yeah, so Siberia. So Isaid, you

Jeff Leake (29:21):
know, when we moved to Pittsburgh, Melody, Melody
grew up in Texas and in Panamaand Nicaragua, one of the last
places on earth she'd ever beenlike she would never think about
going to the north, where it wassnowy. She just, she likes the
beach too. But I remember hersaying, I just want to go
someplace and stay. We moved alot as a family. I'm gonna go

(29:42):
someplace I must stay. And thenonce she got to Pittsburgh, like
we'll be driving down into thecity and on the highway and
seeing the buildings and melodywill just say, just like you
said about Jacksonville, I lovePittsburgh so much. Like this is
my home. I just love this city.
So when, when you feel cold.
Called to a place God eventuallymakes you love it. Now, there

(30:03):
are things about Pittsburgh thatI love, just like there are
things about like, I love thePittsburgh Steelers. I love
that. I love the vibe ofPittsburgh. I love the family
orientation of Pittsburgh. Ilove the Three Rivers. I love
the history here. I love thethree the three seasons, the
four seasons. I hate that it'scloudy and rainy, right? But
there are so many things that Ithat I love about Pittsburgh. So

(30:25):
for me, it's not a sacrifice tolive here. It's, it's, it's my
joy. Now, you probably love someof those things too, but when
God calls you someplace else andyou go and you're like, you're
like, This is great. Like, wewere growing across one of the
bridges, and we were looking atthe city, and you were like,
this even kind of looks likePittsburgh. I mean, it has
bridges and a little river. AndI was like, yeah, if you, if you

(30:45):
put clouds over the top and madeit rain, would look like
Pittsburgh. So I said, justbecause you have a desire for
this doesn't mean that's notGod's will. That's actually one
of the signs that maybe God'sput this in your heart. And then
I started unpack, and I said,when I asked you first, Dave,
where would you go if you couldplan anyplace else? What did you
say? You said, Jacksonville. Isaid, Okay, we're down here

(31:07):
exploring if, if you, if we comeaway and we're not certain,
where else are you going to go?
What's your next city? Andyou're like, I don't really have
one.

Unknown (31:15):
I was like, Oh, Beast, back to square one. Yeah. Okay.
So there's,

Jeff Leake (31:19):
like, this is pretty high up on the list, right? And
you said, Yeah. And I said,okay, one of the things that
happens whenever you get into acity, especially if you are
called apostolically, to plant achurch. So the larger concept
is, I'm not just here to plantone congregation, but I want to
really make an impact on thecity. I said, if you're called
that way, when you look at themap, you start to have prophetic

(31:41):
thoughts. And I said, Whatthoughts do you have when you
look at the map and you werelike, well, there's a highway
that goes all the way around thecity, and I could see actually
planting churches all aroundthat highway. I said, Okay,
that's a sign. It's not just astrategic thought. With you. You
were starting to have visionsand dreams for the the area as
we were driving around and andthen we hit one spot. I don't

(32:02):
remember what it was. It was wewere nearing Sarasota beach
Central, something,

Dave Leake (32:06):
yeah, not Sarasota, but yeah, it's, uh, center
parks. We were talking about,yeah, we were

Jeff Leake (32:11):
getting close to Jacksonville Beach, I'm sorry,
yeah, on the other coastCentral, what

Dave Leake (32:15):
it's called, Center Park. Center Park, okay, it's
sort of near the beaches on theeast side. And

Jeff Leake (32:19):
Sarah started to say, oh yeah. Could see us here,
like this, like, up until thatshe'd been pretty quiet. You're
like, oh yeah, this feels likethe kind of place we could plan.
And I was, you were like, youwere like, Yeah, I think this
could be, like, it would be kindof in an area like this. I'm not
saying that it will be in CenterPark. I'm just saying that that
was what you were saying whenyou were there and and so I, you

(32:41):
know, I said I named other partsof the country. I said, You're
not Northwest, no, you're notnortheast, no, you're not
Midwest, no, you're not Texas,no, you're not in another
country. No. So, okay, so you'regonna someplace in Florida, and
it's probably someplace on thisside of the state, right? Would
you want to maybe not go hereand reapply for some of the
churches that you saw onlinethat were open. No, I wouldn't

(33:04):
feel so well by process ofelimination, aren't we kind of
here? Like, and then you gotreal quiet and and, like, 10
seconds later, you're like,Yeah, this is where we're
supposed to be. Like, it wasn't,wasn't like, I prompted that. It
was like a reflex. You said itout loud, and then instantly,
were like, oh, sorry, I'm sorry.
I didn't want to speak for you.

(33:26):
Maybe you don't feel that. Andthen she said quickly, no, I
agree with you. This is wherewe're supposed to be. So it
wasn't a lightning bolt, but itwas a moment. It was definitely
a moment. Yeah. And then fromthere, the conversation was all
right, now what? Maybe we shouldlook at housing prices. Lynn,
how do we figure out where wewould land? And maybe we should
find out. And I said, Take meback to the hotel. I'm done. You

(33:48):
guys know where you're doing.
I'll let you drive around. We

Unknown (33:50):
saw you on the flight back. Not

Jeff Leake (33:53):
that I didn't love Florida. I just had work to do,
and I was really there only forone purpose, and that was just
to help you figure it out, sure.
And if you had said, No, it'snot Jacksonville, we got to keep
looking. We would have looked.
We sure. Ultimately, what I whatI want for your life, both as
your pastor and your dad, is foryou to be in the center of God's
will do whatever that isPittsburgh would be great,

(34:14):
because the grandkids would becloser, and you would be on my
team. But if you're called toJacksonville, that is what I
want you to be doing, whereverin the world, God wants you to
be. And so you had, I like tocall it a 70% aha moment. Wasn't
1,000% it was like a maybe more,

Dave Leake (34:34):
right? Well, I would say we were already at 65%
before that trip was supposed togo there. And I would say it got
us to like, 95%

Jeff Leake (34:42):
Oh, okay, well, so when you said, Yeah, we're
supposed to be here, you were 95at that point. Yeah.

Dave Leake (34:46):
I mean, even, even now, as we're talking about it,
it's like the minute. So I thinkwe were just so in our heads
about the possibility of missingit and and like, doing something
fleshly, like, oh, this. Is justa fun idea. Like, and, you know,
we were even discussing thisafterwards, like, you know, if,
like, a lot of times it feelslike pastors are the only ones

(35:09):
that don't get to choose whereyou live in them in the world.
Like, if you have another job,you can just be like, we're
gonna move here. But like, youknow, at least the way we do it,
like,

Jeff Leake (35:17):
we know when you have an assignment someplace,
I've never thought about leavingPittsburgh because I felt called
here. So if you were to say,well, where would you like to
live? I would be like, oh, man,I've never been I've never
really thought of that from adesires point of view. Yeah, so,
but I will. Let's come back to aprinciple. I think that can I

(35:38):
kind of finish

Dave Leake (35:38):
my story? I've just taken a side. We'll go to
principal a second. I was goingto say, I was gonna say, I feel
like we were so in our heads.
And I felt like, whenever youhelped to de bunk some of the
concerns we had, it just like,sort of like settled and even,
like, now, as we're like,talking about, I'm like, I am so
excited to go, like, I don'tthink that we quite have the
feel for the culture yet. Or,you know, know, where the

(36:00):
different types of groups peoplelive and everything, but it
feels like, it feels like aresponsibility that is our joy,
and, you know, privilege to go,and we're so excited about it.
And I think it wasn't 1,000%like, you know, like, yeah,
like, we see something, we startweeping. I know, like, Russ horn
had that kind of experience whenhe played it in Sharpsburg, but

(36:23):
it was a clear confirmation. We,I don't think we've questioned
it at all since now we're like,Yeah, this is, it's not a 70% we
were almost at 70 before goingand then it was like, it was
actually just like, permission.
Like, I think we can do this.
You know what? I mean. Okay, so,yeah, it was crazy. So the

Jeff Leake (36:44):
thing that was throwing you is that you wanted
to go there in a way, yeah,

Dave Leake (36:48):
yeah. Well, okay, so I'll be real honest. Now this is
the real honest part. I thinkseeing all of these, you know,
monster church planters, goingto tough places in the
northeast, you know, like BradLeach, or will Hampton or, I
mean, there are so many that wecould sort of go through, but
they were some of the early onesthat I was watching plant. We

(37:09):
took our tour up around thenortheast and 13, and they went
to the hard places. Yeah, theywent to hard places, yeah. Like,
like, nobody's going toBinghamton, you know what I
mean, where they planted tworivers, or, like, you know,
Philly city, yeah, going toSouth Philly. So I was like,
that's awesome. Like, these are,like, real man church. You know

(37:29):
what? I mean, they're going tothese places that are, you know,
that are hard ground. AndFlorida, like, I Jacksonville,
has a need for churches, butit's not the same need that
Connecticut has, right? It's notthe same need that, like,
totally untrue Boston, right?
It's like, oh, I never even youknow nobody since my great
grandparents have ever evenstepped inside of a church.
Like, that's a different level.

(37:50):
So I think church planting willalways be hard. It's never an
easy thing. But I think I wasalso like, I would love to live
here, and it's not in the theicy, frozen north, like where I
thought I always was going tobe, but that, but that was a
clear No. I prayed about that. Ifelt like God was like, Don't do
this. Well,

Jeff Leake (38:10):
what I said to you is, strategically, again, just
most of you know this about me,but I have been helping other
church planters get startedsince 1996 and I have had those
drive around conversations likeI had with Dave and Sarah and
Jacksonville with, I don't know,maybe 100 plus church planters
over the years. And there aretwo really great places to plant

(38:33):
a church. One is the hard spacewhere people are either moving
out or there's not a lot of goodnews, because when you bring a
life giving church to thatspace, you become the best thing
going on in the neighborhood.
And the other place is the placewhere people are moving in, so
where you have high transiency,where you have a transplant of
immigrants and people movingfrom other places into a place.
And Jacksonville is booming withpeople moving in. So there's a

(38:57):
huge need. It actually is theNortheast. It's just the
Northeast when they becomesnowbirds, right? It's, it's,
it's Florida has has people

Dave Leake (39:06):
flooding them. So Jacksonville has 94 people a day
moving there on average, rightnow, yeah,

Jeff Leake (39:11):
which is crazy. So that would be a place
missionally that you would saythat you'd want to plant,
because it's reaching peoplethat are not being reached,
which is the whole purpose, nothow hard it is, but it's really
who, who you're trying to reach,and why a good church is needed
there. So, um, and, and here wasmy principal point, anytime you
being led by God, you typicallyonly get 65 or 70% before you

(39:34):
have to make a call and findingout if that's the right thing.
When you're at the 65 to 757075% mark is when you start to
poke at it. What we did when wedrove around is we were just
poking at it. Holy Spirit. Isthis right? Does this feel good?
Sometimes you get the lightningbolt moment where you weep and
cry and someone gives you aundeniable prophetic word. Thus

(39:56):
says the Lord, you're supposedto be here most often. It's more
foggy than that, and when you'retrying to make a decision about
the future, you're collectingrevelational data, right? What
has God said from, from whatvantage point, what do we feel
is this right? What's the inputwe're getting from other people?

(40:16):
Does this still feel right, likeit's a constant collection of
revelational data from differentsources, until finally, that
percentage becomes strong enoughinside that it becomes
conviction. And then thatconviction you use to continue
to poke. So what will happen?
Now, Dave is about prophesy andspeak predictively based on
experience, is you will start tomove, and you will find these

(40:40):
divine appointments that God hasset up for you. Because whenever
he calls you to a place andassigns you to a space, he does
it because he's already beenworking there for you and for
this work to be establishedbefore you even said yes. It's
like God was moving things inMoses's life when he was at the
burning bush and he was standingthere even before he had said

(41:01):
yes, he had spoken to Aaron, hisbrother on the other side, to
move in his direction. So God'sgot, God's got things moving
toward you, where you're goingto live, where the building's
going to be, who's going to beon your team. Favor you're going
to get from people in thecommunity. God is not waiting
for you to move to Jacksonvilleto start all that in motion.
He's preparing all that for youso that when you step into the

(41:21):
will of God, you're steppinginto his preparation for you,
which also provides a lot ofconfidence and comfort that
you're not going to making thisup as you go along. You're
partnering with God to plantsomething he's called you to in
a place he's already preparedfor you, absolutely, yeah, and
that's not just true for Daveand Sarah and this church plant

(41:41):
in Jacksonville. It's true foranybody trying to follow Jesus.
The will of God is is alwayssomething where you're stepping
into something he's assigned youto and is preparing you for,
yeah? So discerning that is soimportant, because you, if you
just go out of your own idea,you miss the preparation of God,
like there's a, there's a tablehe set for you, yeah, in

(42:02):
Jacksonville that isn't set foryou in the northwest, right? Or,
yeah. So if you had ended up ina space that wasn't his will,
you would have stepped into anon prepared space in
Jacksonville, he's preparedsomething for you, yeah? And the
reason why you feel spirituallyhot inside is because you're
actually, it's like, it's like,the game colder, warmer. Like,

(42:22):
am I get. And it's like, as youdrive around, the Holy Spirit
say, warmer, warmer, warmer.
Like, you can just almost senseit inside. The Holy Spirit's
saying, Oh, wait till you seewhat I got here. Like, that
street we're on. Oh, you'regoing to be the guy right here.
It's going to be so amazing.
Like, you don't know all thatyet, but the Holy Spirit knows
that, and that's part of why hegets more active inside you, the
closer you get to what he'sprepared for you. Yeah, and that

(42:44):
now you're on the journey ofamazing discovery. You're going
to step into all this stuff thatGod has prepared for you that
you just don't know about yet.
Yeah, that one day you'retelling the story of of how God
provided and again, this is truefor everybody. If you say, Yes,
God, I want to follow your willand your way. Everybody has a
prepared future.

Dave Leake (43:05):
Yeah, and I think it's about asking God and
seeking His Will until you kindof find that this is what God
has for me, principle that I'llreflect on that. You know,
Pastor Brad leach was talkingabout this. He was just he I was
saying, I was expressing myhesitance about going to
Florida. Because he was like,You, this feels like a place you

(43:26):
want to vacation. And I waslike, Yeah, I don't know if I
can go there.

Jeff Leake (43:30):
Like, here's a little side as I transition and
have more time as I move intoanother role, and not the lead
pastor role. This is a greatplace for me to go see my
grandkids.

Dave Leake (43:39):
Absolutely. Yeah, so. But he was like, you know, I
think it's a theological errorto believe that God's will is
always whatever it the hardestthing is, yeah. And he told me a
story. He was like, for for me,when I was younger, I went to
Amsterdam, and I thought thiswould be the hardest place to
love to plant a church. He'slike, so it must be for me,
yeah, because it's hard, andit'd be suffering, and it'd be

(44:00):
holy and God, you know,obviously, I've been here for a
reason, but he said, you know,Philly is a lot easier than
Amsterdam would be. Philly'shard. It's really hard. It's a
hard place to plant, but it'seasier than Amsterdam. But even
if I would have planted inAmsterdam, there's harder
places. There's Sudan, you know,yeah, Pakistan, like, Sure, it's
harder place. There's always aharder assignment than what
God's given you, and you can't.
There

Jeff Leake (44:22):
are always things that are uniquely hard and
difficult about where you'regoing, and there's always things
that are uniquely wonderful,right, right? No place is all
difficulty in I guess you'd saythere may be some but, and
there's a joy somewhere. Yeah,did it all and

Dave Leake (44:37):
so, but I think he helped, just to sort of remind
me, like you don't judge whetheryou're on track for God's Will
based on how much suffering orhow hard it's going to be, like
God is it? And that's somethingthat I felt like I had heard God
saying to me in sort of myanxiety moments about this
process, is like God's nothanding me over to be tortured
with this assignment. Like itdoesn't necessarily mean it's.

(45:00):
Gonna be easy, but like, God,has something good in mind for
me for this. And I think thatjust sort of like, released
something like, oh, like, I cankind of consider anywhere, you
know, and not automatically ruleoff places that are perceivably
a better assignment, like beingby the beach, which is a great
one for me. You know what Imean? Like, rule that out just

(45:21):
because it's desirable. Andagain, I so for me, a lot of the
a lot of the process ofdiscerning in this season has
been just untangling thethoughts that I have that are
weighing me down, like I'm it'salmost like, I don't know how
you would not overthink it if Ihad to do this all over again.
I'm not sure that I could just,like, Don't overthink it. I

(45:43):
think I would have to, well, youthat's one of your things. That
is one of my things, yeah? But Ithink God sort of stripped
little pieces of that off untilit was like, okay, like, here's
a piece. This is the rightthing. Like, there's there. And
there's been a lot ofconfirmation signs, yeah. Now,
okay,

Jeff Leake (45:58):
so now let's leverage the last few minutes of
this podcast by a couple things.
So first, I will say thatAllison Park Church has now
planted directly, 33 churches.
And we've been, you know, Iguess downline, there have been
churches that we've planted,that have planted, and then
there have been somegranddaughter churches too,
meaning to downline. So there's,there's a whole group, but we've

(46:19):
now done 33 and it seemed likefor a little season, our
planting got put on hold. But,you know, Colin Robinson has
already moved to New York City.
Next year, he'll be plantingfreedom church there. You're
going to go to Jacksonville. Itappears like there are four new
churches that we will, includingme and Colin, including you
guys, and maybe in adopting afifth in 2026 which is amazing
how God is reopening that. Andso we feel like we're almost

(46:47):
entering a second season ofplanting. So I'll just say, if
you are hearing this and youfeel the Lord is calling you to
plant a church, we are anorganization that loves to
partner with church planters, soplease reach out to us that that
might be something we could havea conversation with you about.
If you are hearing us talk aboutJacksonville, and something
inside of you is jumping, andyou might want to move with Dave

(47:09):
to plant there. Or maybe you'relistening to this and you're in
Jacksonville or nearby, we wouldlove to hear from you.

Dave Leake (47:18):
Come, come join me.
Seriously, like, so I feel like,since God has given me this
assignment, I'm like, This iswhat God wants me to do. I get
to go move to Jacksonville,right by the beach, to do
ministry there. Look, if anybodyfeels like, here's what I've
been thinking like, somebody'sfeeling like, I've always wanted
to move down there. It's justnot been the right season. And
maybe there's a job opening thatyou could apply for. If God

(47:39):
stirs you, please come, you knowwhat I mean? Or maybe, maybe
even, you know, you've beenfeeling stirred to invest into
something. One of the beginningphases, you know, that I'm in
right now is starting to raisethe funds that will take to
launch the church. If you'd liketo give you know, we would love

Jeff Leake (47:57):
you can do through Allison Park Kingdom builders
plan. We'll have a category forthat very soon. Or if you know
somebody lives in that regionand you want to tell them about
it, please, we're just in thebeginning of that, that face,
maybe at some point in thefuture, we could bring all our
church planters on and have alike a group conversation about
this that might be in it. We'venever done anything quite like

(48:20):
that before. Yeah, and so yeah.
And if you're just in theprocess where you're trying to
figure it out, now this may behard for me to fulfill, I'll
just throw this to you. So ifyou're a pastor, a leader, and
you're in a role in ministry,and you're in that process where
you need to have a conversationwith someone about what God's
calling you to do next, I'd beopen to scheduling that phone

(48:40):
call with you if you want to, ifyou want to talk. I kind of say,
I don't know, I have helpedpeople discern this process so
many times. This is probably notthe right term. It's not a
spiritual term, but I kind ofhave a spidey sense for this,
like, like, God has used me tohelp clarify for people the next
step a lot. And so I have somediscernment in me. I think one

(49:07):
of my one of the ways I partnerwith Holy Spirit is through that
wisdom and discernment. And sothat's been a joy with you,
Dave. So think about it from adad's point of view. Now, the
ability to meet with you andJosh over the last couple years,
just to unpack life andphilosophy and ministry that's
been beautiful. It's birth thispodcast, and then to be a part

(49:28):
of your life, where I get tohelp you discern the will of God
for Jacksonville, then be onyour team to cheer you on and
help raise money for you. Andall this is the greatest thing
ever for me. Some of you mightthink, oh, man, wouldn't have
been great if Dave could havebeen your successor. And and
here's what I think. I don'treally have an agenda on that
piece. I just want all of mykids to find the will of God for

(49:49):
their life, whatever that is. SoI find as much joy in this as if
you had stayed here and donethat like to me, it doesn't
carry any. Greater value eitherway, and and that's not just to
say my natural kids like I findgreat joy in spiritual sons and
daughters. Like I was just inNew York City with Colin

(50:09):
Robinson, walking around theflat iron District of New York
City and Manhattan and dreamingabout the church he's going to
plant. And I've I found I findsuch great joy in helping people
discover what God's called themto do and step into it,
especially when it's in therealm of church planning, yeah,
but, but I also love it when I'minvolved with people like Tim

(50:30):
and Kelly Pollack, who are inIndonesia planting a church and
pastoring like when peoplebecome missionaries, several
some of our recent APA gradshave gone on to short term
missions assignments for like, ayear, and I got to pray over
Maggie, who's going, Yeah,permanently to kill gorus last
weekend. Yeah. And there's justsuch joy in that, like, such a

(50:51):
joy in helping people find whatGod's called them to do. And
when you're the person in thatand you find out what God's
called you to you, there's suchI don't think, how would you
describe the emotion, Dave, it'slike, settled, excited,
inspired. It's like, it's

Dave Leake (51:08):
terrifying mix of so many things all in the world,
but it but I guess at thebottom, it's like, at least I
have resolution. I think it washarder to have that chafing of
like, I know God's asking me ifsomething like, what just like
tell me, because it'sfrustrating to sort of have, you
know, six plus months of havingno idea when you felt clearly
stirred, but it's relief, andit's excitement, and it's yeah,

(51:31):
it's all the stuff concern and

Jeff Leake (51:34):
yeah, and let me talk about one other group of
people. So if you're a pastor ofa church and you have a great
staff member like Dave is here,and they come to you and they
say, I think I'm supposed to godo something else. Some pastors
have in the past said, Well, ifyou're not here, then you're not
here. You got two weeks to getout, like you short circuit the
process. You put a lot ofpressure on the young man or

(51:56):
woman that's thinking abouttheir future, and you don't get
the joy of walking on thisjourney. And there's this great
phrase that Bob Buford, who's aspiritual leader and a
businessman, said, my fruitgrows on other people's trees. I
love that phrase. So there's acertain level of Kingdom
fruitfulness that comes fromdoing things that don't have any

(52:16):
direct benefit on you, likeyou're leaving me, right? You're
I have to, I have to replace youat the north side. That's gonna
cause me grief. I mean, it's atransition I have to walk
through. That's a pain. Butthat's, that's not what I'm
thinking about right now. Like Iam thinking about making a plan
so that the people of the northside campus are well led, and

(52:38):
then we get the right leadermoving forward. But ultimately,
I want to be about the kingdom.
And so to pastors who go throughthis, because you have staff
members that do come to you andsay, I think I'm supposed to do
something else. There's a limitto it. Like, if you'd have been
three years praying about whereyou're, that would have been a
long time. So somewhere betweensix months and three years is
probably where we want to be.

(53:00):
Like, I don't think youperpetually thinking about
leaving, but, but, but when youtake the journey, you know
that's a reasonable journey todiscern the will of God. It's
such a great thing for theKingdom. It's a great thing for
you as a spiritual dad, as apastor or a spiritual mom and
and it's great for the personthat you're launching, because

(53:20):
there's such an advantage whenyou have the backing of a local
church that's going to say, Hey,you're creating a problem for
us, but we're behind you 100%look, we want to help you
succeed. We'll send missionsteams, we'll send money. Like,
what do you need? You can takepeople with you, like, I have
lived this over and over andover, and God has never let me
go unrepaid For that which Ihave sowed into the kingdom. So

(53:44):
that's just for those who aremaybe one day find themselves in
that same situation. So

Dave Leake (53:49):
I guess, in closing, my, you know, my fresh
challenge, I just would love toextend anybody else, like, step
into whatever God's will for youis, yeah, you know, like, I feel
like, I'll say it at least likethis in our circle right now,
God is stirring so many things.
He's opening a lot of doors. AndI think what was birthed in me
for church planning was birthedout of seeing people like, you

(54:11):
know, Brad leash and willHampton, and it's like, wow,
maybe that's gonna be mesomeday. Same with Colin. I
believe same kind of thing. Soif God is stirring something
like jump on in. Yeah.

Jeff Leake (54:23):
And if, and if you're in a space where he's not
stirring anything, stay whereyou are and be fruitful there
until you hear otherwise,because sometimes it's exciting
to move on from what is. But Iam living the life story of
being in the same place for 34years, right? And I haven't
left. And there's a fruitfulnessthat comes with rootedness and
stability. And so whatever God'scalled you to do, do that

(54:46):
because that's the best thingyou could do.

Dave Leake (54:48):
Well, we appreciate, as always, you joining us today
in our episode. Thanks forhearing my story. I feel a
little self conscious that Ispent like, 30 minutes just like
telling the details, but maybeit spoke to you in some. Way,
and if it did, or if it mighthelp somebody else that you've
been in conversations with, asfar as about their future. And
there's some unresolved naturewe would love if you'd share

(55:09):
this with them. You can alsohelp us out by liking and
subscribing on YouTube orleaving a comment, which we
would love to interact with youabout. And of course, as always,
you can give us a five starreview on whatever platform
you're listening to this on. Sowe appreciate you so much for
being a part of this. We'll seeyou guys again next time bye.