What Every Christian Should Know About AI with Will Host

Does the Bible say anything about AI? Al is transforming what it means to do church ministry, and this podcast dives deep into the new and challenging world of artificial intelligence for churches.

Hosts Jeff and Dave Leake, along with marketing expert Will, explore how Al can help sermon preparation, create personalized Bible plans, and improve church communications.

They discuss the potential benefits and ethical considerations of using Al in spiritual contexts, from generating content to translating sermons into multiple languages. The conversation tackles tough questions about technology's role in faith, including whether Al can truly lead someone to Christ.

Hear candid insights from church leaders navigating this cutting-edge technological landscape and learn practical ways Al might impact ministry.

AI Tools mentioned: 
ChatGPT: https://openai.com/
Groq: https://groq.com/

Clip from The Bible Al: https://youtu.be/zzDZeNhmqeg?si=LxnwHqTg_WISZT3q

Welcome to Season 6 Episode 9 of the podcast. Subscribe to the Allison Park Leadership Podcast for more culture-creating conversations.

LinkTree:
https://linktr.ee/AllisonParkLeadershipNetwork
Email:
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[e-mail]
Instagram:
@Jeffleake11
@Dave.Leake

Episode Transcript

Dave Leake (00:00):
Today, we're talking about all things AI. What is it?

(00:03):
How do we use it? Where is AIgoing in the future, and are
there areas that arequestionable as to whether we
should really use AI or not? Isit going to be good for the
world? How Should Christiansview AI? Are pastors, you know,
preaching sermons that arewritten by AI bots? Is that okay
or not? Is using it for yourhomework, all this kind of
stuff. We're going to talk aboutAI and how Christians and

(00:26):
leaders should use it as theworld moves forward. If you want
to hear more, tune in. Heyeverybody. Welcome to the
Allison Park leadership podcast,where we have our culture
creating conversations. I'm oneof the hosts. My name is

Jeff Leake (00:38):
Dave. My name is Jeff. Of course, we're father
and son and both on staff atAllison Park Church. I'm the
Lead Pastor, Dave's North Sidecampus pastor, and we are joined
with special guests. Will hosttoday, so maybe we'll introduce
yourself to everybody. Tell uswho you are, what you do. Yes,

Will Host (00:53):
my name is Will I lead a lot of our marketing and
communications here at thechurch. It's an honor to do
that. I also run a business thathelps many companies and
organizations with fractionalmarketing leadership. So it's
very similar to our engagementhere, where we're not full time
for the company, but we're parttime, and so we're able to help
sort of save some expenses andcosts and also provide the

(01:15):
strategic direction that a lotof Yeah, so your

Jeff Leake (01:17):
company's name and dosha and OSHA, and so someone
to find you that would do anddosha.com, a, n, d, O, C, I,
a.com, that was perfect. And sobasically, we subcontract to you
everything that is in whatcategory?

Will Host (01:33):
Well, everything, really in the marketing
communication space. We haveinternal people here at the
church, obviously, but whateverthey don't handle, we handle,
and that's really the way thatwe work with most companies. So
sometimes it's everything,sometimes it's pieces of things,
but our onboard is typically theleadership piece. They're either
they don't have a CMO or theydon't have a marketing director,

(01:53):
or whatever that might look wecome and we sit in that seat,
and then we help fill in thegaps by saying, okay, it sounds
like you need a websitedeveloper. We'll bring a website
developer on. Website developeron the team, or social media or
media buying advertising,whatever it might be. We build a
cross functional marketing teamaround them, and then sell them
for one monthly cost.

Jeff Leake (02:11):
And we've been engaged. So you've been at
Allison Park as a, you know,part of the church, for a while.
Yeah, we've engaged with you forwhat, five months now. Five
months, yeah, it's, it's goingamazing. Highly recommend. It
will is incredible. His team'sincredible to work with. And we
happened to be at lunch togetherthe other day, and this topic
kind of came to the surface, andwe thought, you have an a

(02:34):
particular vantage point on thisparticular issue. So we're going
to talk about AI, right? Give usthe Yeah,

Dave Leake (02:40):
okay, so, so I guess we go a lot of directions. Maybe
we will, but particularly whenwe're talking about the church
world and Christians, I guess,but probably more the church
world. Wanna talk about AI andthe ethics of AI when it comes
to spiritual matter. So quickexample, and then we can go

(03:01):
wherever we want to go. You weresharing a story about a church,
I think that had a little chatbot at the bottom, and you could
click on it. It would, you know,it would be, or I think this
was, was

Jeff Leake (03:12):
this? No city reach church in Austin, Texas, they
told me to tell us about theyhad a bot that was on there that
would answer the questions ofthe people that were visiting
the website and the bot learnedmore and more about what the
right answers were for thechurch, and eventually started
to answer questions that peoplehad about their faith, and then

(03:33):
began to try to lead people toChrist. So the

Dave Leake (03:36):
AI, the AI program, so they basically chatting
people to lead them to Christ.

Jeff Leake (03:41):
So the basically, at least the philosophy of Ministry
of city reach, was, we don'twant the bot doing that. We'd
like a person to do that. Sothey limited it in terms of what
its permissions were. And for meas so I don't know much about I
know I know chat GPT and how toask it a couple questions, but I
don't know a whole lot about it.
But that brings up, there's likea whole world. So there's a lot
of different directions. It'sethics, it's the potential good

(04:03):
that can happen in ministry.
It's the danger points. It's thequestion, is AI going to take
over the world and usher in theAntichrist? I mean, there's a
whole bunch of differentdirections we could end up with,
and you are leveraging thisright now to help Allison Park
Church with its market all the

Dave Leake (04:22):
time, let me pitch it to well, on a frame the
beginning. Okay, go ahead,because I want to. We'll expand
from here. So here's, here'ssort of the opening. All right,
I this is the I was just havingthis conversation with my wife.
This is that breaking point. I'm34 where I'm like, massive shift
in technology, and I'm feelingthe pressure, like I have to
stay with this, because this iswhere I could start to get left

(04:44):
behind. The way that I'vewatched, like older generations
have this because, to be honest,I don't really like a lot of it,
like I know how to it's like Iunderstand the basic way. The
dumbest way is like a glorifiedsearch engine type it, it's
going to respond like Googlewould. There's a lot more
application. Ends than that. Andso for me, you know, I spent a
few months where I'm just tryingto make sure that I have a

(05:06):
better grasp grasp on it thanjust the basic functions. But
what I want to ask Will tostart, because I don't know that
a lot of people know the fullrange and the scope of what AI
is or what it does. Can you talkto us like when we talk about,
AI, what? What are peopletalking about? Yeah,

Will Host (05:23):
absolutely it. For me, I almost had to go through
like, the seven stages of losswith it, right? And, like, there
were times where I was, like,literally praying fervently
that, like, there would belegislation or something,
somebody would, you know whyit's it's going to shake things
up like crazy, like it is goingto my prediction, and I think a

(05:44):
lot would agree. I think thosethat disagree don't fully
understand it. It's going to beso much more impactful to
industry than.com was then, youknow, whatever, whenever you're,
you know, aware of AI, there'salways the argument. Well,
anytime there's a giantinvention, it changes the
workforce, right? So theprinting press changed the way
that things were printed, andpeople lost their jobs, or had

(06:05):
to learn something new, right?
Or whatever. The Plow wasinvented. It changed the way
that we sickle harvest. Youknow, it's just it changes jobs.
It either gets rid of them orreplaces them with something
else. This is going to be onsuch a grand scale, and it's
going to happen very, veryquickly, and you really feel it
could affect your part of theindustry, it will 100% affect my
part of the industry. And sothere's that first part where

(06:28):
you're fearful around it, andyou're like, I'm just going to
put my head in the sand and hopethat this goes away. It's not
going away. And 100% if youdon't learn how to implement AI
into what you're doing, whetheryou're a pastor or a business
owner or whatever, wherever youare in your leadership journey.
Yeah, you've got to implementit, or you're going to get left
behind. It would be like tryingto do business today without an
email address. I think that'show it's going to be in five to

(06:48):
10 years. So

Jeff Leake (06:51):
I was shocked around the table to find out how many
of my staff use IA regularly intheir ministry duties. And I was
like, really, I didn't knowthat. So like the younger team.
Guess you guys younger than you,Dave, are already adapting to it
and using it constantly.

Will Host (07:06):
Yeah. So tell me what it is. So AI is essentially an
LLM, a learning language model.
Is what we're that's a lot ofwhat's driving what we call AI,
right? And so it's just, youknow, an algorithm that's kind
of guessing what the next wordin the sentence is going to be
based off of the entire internetand its own learning. So it's
kind of crazy the way that itworks, but it works

(07:28):
extraordinarily well, and it'sgetting better and better every
single month, because chat, GPT,Claude, grok, there's so many
different ways. What are those?
Those are completely differentcompanies with completely
different llms. Okay, so

Jeff Leake (07:43):
the LLM we tend to think of as the impersonated
robot out there. That is AI,yes, and they're all kind of
Siri, yeah, although that's nota learning model,

Will Host (07:55):
it's built on a learning language model. But
they're all kind of good atdifferent things. Claude is
phenomenal with copywriting.
Like, it's super, super good.
Grok is really great atcreating, like, software. It can
write you code. So, like, forinstance, I follow religiously
my full focus planner. It's apaperback planner. I've always

(08:15):
wished that there was a digitalversion. There's not. I went
into grok and I took like, twohours of an evening, and I told
it my entire layout of myplanner and what I want it to
look like on my desktop. And itbuilt me a web app in like an
hour. Wow. It gave me theJavaScript, the HTML, the CSS. I
plugged it into a server, and itgave me a perfect app for

(08:39):
planning my schedule out theyintegrated with my Google
Calendar. They integrated mytasks. I'm not a software
developer. I don't know anythingabout software, but I copy and
pasted its code into a privateserver and created a web app in
two hours. It's insane. Soblocks great with stuff like
that. Chat, CBT is gettingbetter and better, but it
largely it doesn't doextraordinarily well. Yet with

(09:01):
like, creating images, althoughthere are certain plugins that
you can use to do that better,it's just great for is

Dave Leake (09:09):
chatbot the same as chat GPT, no different one. Chat
bots actually very good at imagegeneration, yes, but

Will Host (09:15):
that's a different part of it. Got it, yeah. And
they're getting better andbetter, which is my, wait,

Jeff Leake (09:19):
wait, wait, I can tell them what kind of image I
want, and it will create. So

Dave Leake (09:24):
I have, like, a chat bot app subscription so I can
just, I can use as much as Iwant to use. I'm honestly this.
I got it because it's the mostbasic version, like, generally,
it's decent about everything,but probably doesn't specialize.
Give me an image that you wantto see created, just an idea,

Jeff Leake (09:42):
Chelsea Football Club winning the Champions
League with Pastor

Unknown (09:46):
Jeff as the goalie.

Jeff Leake (09:49):
Okay, I did have this experience while you're
typing that in, where DavidRosenblum, who came to lead
worship here at the Igniteconference in the green room,
before one of the services, toldone. Of these. I don't know
which one to write a song aboutme, Emmy and the Chelsea
Football Club. And then he tellsthe the genre of music, it was
amazing, yeah, like, 10 seconds.
It is amazing. It had written acountry version, a rock version,

(10:13):
yeah. I still have the one on myphone. I listen to it every once
in a while, yeah. So it wrote asong, like a decent song, it
does such

Will Host (10:22):
a good job. And that's all on, like, the the
language side of things. Sowhat's this image? Did it pop it

Dave Leake (10:27):
out yet? It's almost I, I'd substitute it with a
priest as the goalie, because Ifeel like, oh, because I feel
like it would know Pastor Jeffis maybe I'm not trusting in it
enough. Okay,

Unknown (10:36):
so let's see the on the spot.

Jeff Leake (10:41):
Wow. So cartoon version, there's Oh, and then
there's a picture version too.
There's your picture version.
Wow.

Will Host (10:46):
So it is remarkable, wow. And, okay, the thing about
AI to use, like, a kind oftangential example, I feel like
it's really hard sometimes toovercome, like, brand perception
when something doesn't go right.
So you see this in cars, right?
Like, dodges have, like, thisperception that's really hard

(11:07):
for them to get over, thatthey're not reliable vehicles.
Sorry for anybody that owns aDodge, right? They're just known
for depression. Who knows that?
That's actually true for thecars on the line

Dave Leake (11:17):
dodging Ford, yeah, unless it's trucks. But I
wouldn't either,

Will Host (11:22):
right? Because cars in the early 2000s and 2000 10s
that are that they are knownfor, their transmission going
bad, right? But if they fix thatin the last couple of years, the
perception is still there. Doesthat make sense? Totally so
you're seeing that like crazywith AI, where somebody might
have used chat GPT even sixmonths ago, the chat G, P, T,
you have now is entirelydifferent, crazy the image

(11:43):
models that somebody might havetried six months ago and say,
Well, yeah, but it's not reallygood with, like, hands. That was
the argument for the longesttime. It doesn't do hands. Well,
yeah, it does now,

Dave Leake (11:51):
does it really So Matt, our producer, showed me
videos of footage, and thefootage looks amazing until you
see their hands, and it's scary.
Yeah, like, their hands arelike, bending.

Will Host (12:04):
Why? Because it's combing the web for other
examples, and it has billions offaces to pull from, and eyeballs
and ears and but for whateverreason, there's not a lot of
isolated hands for it to pullfrom, and it has a hard time.
But even that issue is beingsolved. Okay? So there's a lot
of people that are like, Yeah, Ican tell when it's AI, maybe,

(12:24):
like, six months ago, not now.
You can let

Dave Leake (12:27):
me give a recommendation that that Matt
producer, Matt showed us. Whatis it called the Bible through
AI. What do you call it? TheYouTube channel? Yeah, yeah.
Bible, AI. Bible, AI project.
You can link it. Okay, it is thecraziest looking thing. It's all
AI based images. Occasionallyit's hilarious because it's
like,

Jeff Leake (12:48):
that is so maybe produce a matt, if you can throw
it on the screen for us at somepoint as we talk, you can look
it

Dave Leake (12:53):
up. Just that trailer you showed where it was,
like, it was the whole Bible,and it shows the Adam and Eve
thing with the snake, and thenit's Pharaoh. I'm talking about
Matt that that trailer. Okay,we'll find this. This is, it's
crazy. Okay, if you've neverseen this wild. I we're gonna
get into actual the tension of,how do we use this? And yes,
maybe the impact that it's gonnahave on the workforce industry,

(13:15):
which is a little different thanmaybe how it will work in
ministry, I think it's stillgonna have a big impact. But I
think the also we'll talk aboutall this, yeah, but I want to
make sure we've, like, laid ourbase and found, do you feel like
you have a better understanding?
Okay, so

Jeff Leake (13:30):
I just said this before we started the podcast. I
know the least about thisparticular topic of any topic
we've covered on the podcast. Iwill probably sit and listen to
a lot of this and ask stupidquestions for our oldie older
audience members, in case thatthey're missing something. But
you guys talk. I want to listen.
Okay, so

Will Host (13:46):
I want to explain what I think the power of AI is
because a lot of people are kindof using it in, like, cute
little ways that slightlyincrease efficiency, right?
Like, like, Google searches.
That's, that's how I was usingit exactly. I don't google
search anything anymore, whichwe can get into a whole other
thing about how that's going toreshape SEO and the Google
landscape. Because I don't, Ihaven't Googled anything in
like, three months. Okay? I havechat on my phone, and I

(14:08):
actually, you know, Googlestuff? No, I because chat has a
i on the way here, I was just, Iget super curious about things
like in history or just

Jeff Leake (14:17):
chat an app, yeah, okay, I didn't know that, all
right, so I use it to help mewith creative sermon and Series
titles. That's all I use it forso far, although I did use it in
a sermon just recently, saying,You know what? What are the
reasons for identity crisis? Yougave me some. Anyway, I'm gonna
try not

Will Host (14:35):
to take us off on tangent. But you're kind of a
history guy, right? You told me,once you try to read books from
every president, yeah? So you'reyou're you're thinking about a
president, and you're curiousabout something, you can pull
out your GPT app and be like,hey, J Edgar, Hoover, or
whatever. When was he born, andwhat exactly did he do? J Edgar,
it'll read it back to you tellyou, like, think niche
information about that person.

Dave Leake (14:55):
And sometimes it's, it's very wrong sometimes. But
even

Will Host (14:59):
that, I want. I just want to challenge. Yes, it can
be sure, but that's gettingbetter and better. It is getting
every month wrong. If it'spulling, can get dates, that's
okay. It used to, and it stillcan. It's getting a lot better.
It used to, like, crush certainthings, like, blow your mind,
and then get like, oh, it'sactually December 10, not

(15:21):
December 7, you know, like,random little facts wrong, which
is bad, sure, but yeah, that'salso

Dave Leake (15:28):
as around Christmas time, I was preaching a sermon,
and I was looking about, like,famous lighthouses, and it was
like combining weird historicalevents that didn't happen
together to, like, tell me so,like, what are some stories
about a lighthouse that saved1000s of lives because of, you
know, like in a storm orwhatever? And it would just
like, pull it was, it was, itfelt like an image generator. It

(15:50):
was like pulling certain thingsfrom history and like combining
them almost with a felt likefictional elements. And then it
would tell me it's historicalthing. So I'd be like, Okay, let
me actually Google search thisjust to verify. And it's like,
no, that never happened. Neverhappened. Like, this is what
this was, what this was. So, sothat was months ago. I get that
it's improving quickly, yes, butthat was my former experience,

(16:11):
and I have noticed it, but untilyou told me like it's rapidly
learning, I wouldn't have knownit's upgrading that quickly.
Yeah. So

Will Host (16:20):
that's maybe one challenge. Is like, keep in mind
that car analogy, the Dodgetoday might not be the Dodge of
your father 10 years ago, whotold you never to buy a Dodge.
That might not be true today,right? Especially for AI as it
changes. I mean, there's a newlearning language model within
chat, GPT, 2.0 3.5 3.5 turbo,4.0 there's all of these kind of

(16:41):
upgrades that are happening allthe time and making it better
and better. So I was with you,like, I'm putting my head in the
sand, like, this isn't going todo it. It's going to do it.
Yeah, I believe it's just amatter of time we have that
video. Let's do

Dave Leake (16:53):
it. Do you want to quickly see this? Here we go.
This is all AI, oh,

Jeff Leake (17:03):
this is the Garden of Eden. If the Bible had a
movie trailer, the Bible had amovie trailer. I

Dave Leake (17:20):
These aren't real actors. Just Just see, no doubt,

(17:45):
this is all AI generated people.
I

Jeff Leake (18:15):
Wow,

Will Host (18:17):
it's remarkable. I Oh,

Jeff Leake (18:24):
come on, that's amazing. Isn't

Will Host (18:29):
that crazy? I almost have, like, a tear in my that's,
yeah,

Jeff Leake (18:33):
no, really, let's go see that movie.

Dave Leake (18:36):
That's crazy. I think they have to do so much
editing, though, because so thenMatt was showing me other clips,
and some of them are reallyfunny, looking like, it's like,
as their faces turn like, ooh,like, you know, like the head, I
don't know, but, but that's

Will Host (18:50):
Oh, yeah, that would have cost like, $50,000 at

Dave Leake (18:54):
least more than that. That's probably in the
millions. I mean,

Will Host (18:57):
crazy, yeah, even if you have to edit it a few times
and it's like, oh, that got thatface wrong, that looked weird,
and you've got to regenerate it.
Like, still, holy crap.

Jeff Leake (19:05):
That's awesome.
Seriously impressed. Yeah.

Will Host (19:07):
So, yeah, um, there's the little ways to use that that
we can talk about, like, how itcan help you outline a sermon,
or take your sermons and breakthem down into bite sized
pieces, or, you know, apply toother content. Yeah. So

Jeff Leake (19:19):
I just, I just saw that. So someone sent me an
email saying, What are you doingthis week to take your Easter
sermon and use AI to generatefollow up? What like messages in
defense, images, social media,posts, those kind of things.

Will Host (19:36):
So there's a lot of power. Yeah, it is a sad day for
Ghost Riders. It's a sad day foraccommodators.

Dave Leake (19:41):
Okay, so, so,

Jeff Leake (19:43):
so let's leave this so much. So let's leave the
FANBOY stage, and let's moveinto what are the hesitations?
Wait, wait, wait, wait, well, orokay,

Dave Leake (19:51):
you take a stage.
Sorry, you can go first. Okay,

Will Host (19:53):
so I just want to explain this goes well beyond
though, just using chat CPT,because there's a couple other
foundations. Of elements thatwe're spending 1000s of dollars
on right now as a company withdevelopers and trying to build
this out, because it goes wellbeyond just here's my sermon.
Create some notes out of it, orcreate a small group curriculum
out of it. That stuff's easy. Wecan talk about it. The real

(20:15):
power comes in when you'restarting to create custom gpts,
AI agents, and then, you know,make or in eight in workflows
that build automations based offsay that on layman's terms. So,
right? I need to explain kindof, all of the the terminology
real quickly. All right, acustom GPT is like a custom
database where you're tellingthe learning language model not

(20:36):
to pull from the web, but topull from your own content. So
this would be where you takeevery book you've ever written,
you take the manuscripts, yougive it some videos, it'll
transcribe them. You give itsermon notes. It learns you, oh
my. It learns your voice. Itlearns the way that you write,
and then it generates contentbased off of that. And you can
wait

Jeff Leake (20:54):
it so I could be dead and I could still be
preaching 100%

Will Host (20:58):
and that's how the church that she uses an example
in Texas, right? Yeah, that'swhat they did. They built a
custom GPT based off of alltheir SOPs and FAQs and content
that they've created. Sopmeaning like a standard
operating procedure that showsyour voice and tonality all
their

Dave Leake (21:14):
language they've ever written and documented.
They now have it integrated inthis AI that is able to
reproduce what they would say,yes. And

Will Host (21:21):
then the chat bot isn't pulling from the web, like
chat GPT is. It's pulling fromthe custom database, the custom
GPT, and then when they ask aquestion, it's pulling from
those documents. And I won'tmention his name, but there's a
really big leader in Americaright now that created an app
that's like, ask his name. It'sjust called that. And he
uploaded all of his books, allof his content, whatever, and

(21:43):
you just ask it for businessadvice, and then it will tell
you what he would say, and hesaid with 99% accuracy. And it's
in his voice, by the way,because that's gonna be aI
generated in his voice, in hisdictation, or in his addiction
and tonality. Hey, I've got thismuch in EBITDA or profit. And I
have this problem with anemployee, what would you do? And

(22:03):
it will tell you what he woulddo, and he says, that's exactly
what I would say, wow. So that'swhere the power comes in. And
then with these make models,what you can do is say, take
from this database and do a longstrand of automations. Because
what chat is not great at whatwhat AI is not great at is doing

(22:24):
multiple tasks right now. But ifyou can tell it to do specific
tasks through an agent, which iswhat an agent is, you're saying
you do one thing only. You arean SEO agent, so your only job
is to crawl my competitorswebsites or other church
websites, bring back what longtail keywords they're using in
their website, and tell me whatwhat I'm not using in my

(22:45):
website, that I can writecontent against, sure, or go do
market research for me and bringback information that I should
include in my blogs to reach mytarget market.

Dave Leake (22:53):
Essentially, it's boosting how easily it is to
find you on the web by comparingto a lot of people doing that
boost their their website

Will Host (23:01):
what I'm interested in, and I think this applies, I
think this is where it actuallymost applies to churches, where
it can bring operationalefficiency, efficiency with the
way that we create content. Isthen you can take like five or
six AI agents that are all doingspecific tasks. You're an SEO
agent, you're a market researchagent, or a research agent for
what we've hired

Jeff Leake (23:21):
you guys to do.
Well,

Will Host (23:25):
it does freak me out.
Yes, it does. Yes, we'll putthat on the shelf. No, you're
exactly right. Then you have anagent that's you're a
copywriter, you're a contentwriter, and then you create an
agent that you're a proofreader, all you're doing is
looking for historicalinaccuracies, grammar errors or
whatever. And what we can do,we've already got to make model

(23:46):
build out that does this, we cantake a spreadsheet of like 10
content ideas, feed it to an SEOagent, bring back long tail
keywords that need to beincluded, write a blog article
included with meta tags for SEOthat from, you know, the first
findings proof it, post it tothe website, like 10 blogs in
like maybe two minutes, and itcan generate the images for us

(24:10):
with dynamic content andbackgrounds. It's, it's
absolutely amazing. So that'show the church did that. Right
is they're, they're creatingthese automated workflows, and
that's where the power so here's

Dave Leake (24:22):
i There's one spot, spot I want to go. I'm sorry, I
keep, like, shutting down. It'sfine. No, no. But here, here's
what I want to paint. Because Ithink the ethics and the
question as far as how we usethis, it's set up better if we
start here when we look as faras where the world is going to
go in five or 10 years, I likewhen you're thinking of the
invention of the internet, orlike, less or so smartphones.

(24:43):
Like, I remember being like, I'mnever gonna need a smartphone.
You know what I mean, when I sawmy flip phone, and then
everybody has them. So I'm, Ithink it's easier to see the
dilemmas and or not evendilemmas. It'll be opportunities
as well. But the changinglandscape that we're gonna have
tension with, if we sort ofproject a little bit. So can you
without, with, with using aslittle technical terminology as

(25:04):
possible, like just paint whatthe job market might might look
like, what, how this will affecteveryday life? Does that make
sense? Yeah,

Will Host (25:12):
I think things like proofing are going to become a
lot easier. Things like even,even proofing contracts, it's
extraordinarily what is proof incontracts, looking for
discrepancies. It's not justgrammar errors, like you can
give it a pretty complex legaldocument and it'll tell you if
there are contradictions or ifyour terms are right, and tell
you what you should include toprotect yourself. Okay, yep, so

(25:34):
there's stuff like that. Soagain, it gets really good at
projections. You can feed itlike your financial statement,
and ask it to run projectionsfor you, and it will do a
phenomenal job at runningprojections on how it thinks
your tithe is going to do, or,you know, how the market might
affect those types of things, orlook for errors in the financial
data, like it can do all of

Dave Leake (25:56):
the way students are doing homework right now are
often they're having AI writebook reports, and It's often
pretty hard to catch thosethings. And so right now, it's
being adapted into a lot ofcurriculums, like we it's like,
some people think of it like acalculator. Like, before, I used
to do everything long hand, youknow what? I mean, like with the
pencil. But now you can usecalculator. So you're always
going to have AI, let'sincorporate. I mean, it seems

(26:17):
like it's a global landscape.
Certain jobs are going tototally vanish if it keeps going
this way, because it's going toautomate certain processes. With
all of that said, I think now Ihope I didn't do a bad job with
this. I'm trying to set it up ina where anybody can understand
where we're going. Now, I thinklet's get into how does this
affect the church world withless conceptual things like

(26:39):
projections, but I'm talkingabout what pastors do, or what
what Christians are gonna ingeneral this. Do you understand
what I'm saying?

Will Host (26:48):
Yeah. So I have four church examples of of how
they're using AI, okay, right?
And AI got this for me, and Iconfirmed it. Okay. So Life dot
church, for example, they haveimplemented AI in their You
Version Bible app to createcustom, specific Bible plans for
you based off of AI, right? Sono longer is dependent on people
like us. We just did a youversion curriculum. We had to
write it. We had to go to thestudio film it. That a lot of

(27:10):
that stuff might not change, butwe created that specific Bible
plan for specific purpose.
They're developing this out withAI, where you can plug in what
you want to know, and it'sdeveloping this plan for you on
the spot. That's a hugeimplication. So it's
customizable, yeah, and I cansee that going into small group
curriculum where, you know,we're not having to go out and

(27:32):
find it, we can literallydevelop it ourselves with AI
like that. You know, you wantsomething on divorce A's and
what the Bible has to say aboutyour future done. So

Jeff Leake (27:41):
it's speed, that's one thing you gain, and it's a
greater, higher of quality,quality in terms of analysis,
or, yeah, or accuracy in termsof the

Dave Leake (27:53):
weird thing is, you just saw that that video. So
when it starts to be able towrite content and it can make
images that quickly you candevelop video teachings that are
with an AI generated person,100% I

Will Host (28:05):
mean, and we know we were working with a company that
is that their whole idea was theBible on Tiktok. Yeah, they were
gonna do the whole Bible. And Iforget what, how it matches up,
but it's like, you know, a twominute Tiktok clip a day, two of
them a day. You can have thewhole Bible, and that was going
to be like, millions of dollarsto film all the stuff and to
write all the stuff, where thiscould probably do it like, in a

(28:26):
matter of a couple months.

Jeff Leake (28:28):
It's crazy. So do you think there'll be a a
counter reaction to this? Likethis will become so common, this
imagery and everything thatpeople are like, so that people
are sort of like, I'm so tiredof that age. I generated stuff.
I want a real human being. Ilike, it's hard to tell the
difference, because, okay, youcan play that for me. I'm in awe
that it's wonderful. But 10years from now, won't be in awe

(28:49):
of that anymore. No, true,right? I'll be like, Okay, I've
seen that already. That's 10years

Will Host (28:53):
from now, it's going to be exponentially better. But
how

Jeff Leake (28:56):
much better can the special effects of a video get
to where it qualitativelychanges my life. It might mean,
but you might not be like, Imight actually find myself
saying I want to unplug fromthis because I want face to
face, real relationships. Well,

Will Host (29:12):
I think that won't change. I think the face to face
stuff will change. You know,

Jeff Leake (29:16):
even like, Okay, I You laughed. I said, don't we
hire you for that. But in someplaces, I would rather have a
human Do you know what I mean?
Okay, maybe not proofreading,unless the proofreader is
somebody that I enjoyinteracting with, because out of
their creativity comessomething. You know what I mean?

Will Host (29:34):
Yeah, and I don't think that'll that'll be
removed, but like in that case,with your proofreader, rather
than spending 50% of the timeproofreading the

Jeff Leake (29:42):
conversations about something else. Oh, that's done.
So It specializes even the humaninteraction. Yeah, I

Will Host (29:47):
think a term that you're going to hear a lot more
is like prompt engineer. I thinkcompanies and organizations are
going to have more promptengineers. And that's we just
learned to work with it. Becauseone very important principle
about AI, the. Output is only asgood as the input, and it's not
as simple as asking itsomething. You got to know how
to ask it, what, how to give itas proper parameters, because

(30:08):
that will greatly determine theoutput. And so people are going
to get good at learning how towork with the machine.

Jeff Leake (30:13):
Okay, so how? So should preachers who preach the
word become prompt engineers fortheir sermons? Yeah, when it
comes to research. Okay,research. So let's, let's dive
into this piece. Should apreacher preach an AI generated
message? Well, that's really

Dave Leake (30:29):
easy to write an AI generated message, and I think
that's happening in a lot ofplaces now, because

Jeff Leake (30:33):
for me, that seems like I'm crossing the line. Now
I think it is cross okay.

Dave Leake (30:38):
Why though? Okay, so let's, let's, let's now get into
theology. When it comes to this,I think that so, so when it
comes to answering questions, ifwe're just, if we're doing
teachings, that's from, youknow, we're going to, we're
going to go through all thepoints, you know, in the book of
Mark, major themes, we're goingto talk about the history of it.

(31:01):
AI can generate informationreally well. But there, I think
that there is a sense AI is notable to have an interaction with
God the way that the humanspirit can. There's always going
to be a different level ofcreativity. Is not even just the
right word, anointing.

Jeff Leake (31:19):
Yes, right? Holy Spirit, leadering, leadership,
yeah, because filling in the

Dave Leake (31:24):
blank, the LLM thing, I

Jeff Leake (31:26):
prophesy for you, you can't, because that's a
spiritual

Dave Leake (31:29):
it can project based on historical events, but it
can't hear from God the way thatthe human spirit until

Jeff Leake (31:37):
it becomes human,

Will Host (31:41):
okay? But I think it can maybe be a mix of both, like
so and I'm not a preacher, I'mnot a pastor, but I think when
you're building out a sermon,yes, and I do for God behind
bars when we're there, so Ithink one of the most important
cornerstones of your sermon isthat sort of nugget of
revelation that you have forthat topic. If you feel like you

(32:02):
read something in the word stoodout to you and you're like, Oh
man, that's really good. I wantto teach on that Sure. And so
the last time, sorry todisappoint you, the last time I
spoke at God behind bars, acouple months ago, I had chat
CBT write out some of myoutline, but I gave it what I
thought was the revelation I'dreceived from the word regarding
a particular passage totally. Sowhat that enabled me to do is

(32:23):
say, Hey, I saw this verse in anew light, and I want to preach
on this. I think it's supergood. Gave it all the things.
Can you bring me some scripturalreferences in the Old Testament?
Can you bring me a couple ofillustration examples and
outline this in a five pointsermon, or whatever it did
remarkably well based off ofthat nugget of truth, okay? And
so crazy. It did some of theheavy lifting of, like, going

(32:45):
back into the Old Testament andfinding some of those
references. I was able to say, Iknow there's a verse somewhere
that says something like this,boom, it pulled it up and drew
those references for me. So nowI can spend my time rather than
looking for it like, like,digging more into that nugget of
truth. You know, so if youdidn't have to spend your time
doing cross reference andvalidation and all those things

(33:06):
which you just kept digging in,or you at least let those
illustrations kind of try to

Jeff Leake (33:11):
muscle you, do you develop, though, from having to
dig that's true. I that is true.
And I mean, like, it's almostlike you can become so so so
serviced by that, that you don'tlearn what it is to wrestle
Well,

Will Host (33:27):
that ought to be the whole door. That's going to be
the same for everybody. It'sgoing to make people stupid. I
It really is. Well, so, so the

Dave Leake (33:34):
counter I agree with you on this topic. The counter
argument would be, be, there's amuscle you develop when you do
long form division, as opposedto using a calculator, like you
do start, or when you researchsomething in a concordance, as
opposed to Google, Googlesearching it like we're already
using stuff that's making thosemental muscles weaker. But

Jeff Leake (33:53):
I'm not yes, and I'm not sure that's been good. I
don't know

Dave Leake (33:56):
that but, but where I don't like with what I

Jeff Leake (33:58):
mean, I'm not going back, yeah, sure. Like, I'm
gonna keep using Google. I'm notgonna go back to my concordance.
I'm just not sure I like theeffect that it has, especially
if it continues that way.

Dave Leake (34:08):
I agree. Okay, so will what I think you did. I
would, I would consider a lot ofthose parts to be research. Now
if I probably wouldn't want totake the AI's five points,
because for me, like thelanguage, I've been writing
sermons for you know, I think, Iguess, 12 years, and preaching
most most weeks. So there's,like, the language matters, the

(34:30):
logic. Like, you can have agreat sermon, but it might be
different than what I feel like.

Jeff Leake (34:36):
What if it had typed in all of your previous writings
and sermons so that it soundedlike you, yeah, so that's the
part that you just added afeature to it. I would almost
feel ethically that I would needto stand up and say this sermon
was co written by me, AI and theHoly Spirit, almost like in

(34:56):
every message you say. By theway, this message is completely
original. It wasn't nothinggenerated this other than my own
interaction with God or Yeah,is, are people going to become
so adapt to it that they justwould assume, yeah, I think they
will so. So for people who arehearers, it's not an ethical
quandary,

Will Host (35:14):
yeah, because I use logos, I imagine right to some
extent, do you guys use logos?
Think about how much time thatsaves you absolutely going in
you don't have, I mean, it's aninsane amount of information.

Dave Leake (35:27):
Logos is a Bible software that can pull up

Jeff Leake (35:30):
commentary, commentaries

Will Host (35:32):
in Hebrew words, and you don't have to give a
disclaimer that me and logoswrote this true, because who
cares? It makes you lookbrilliant when you're like,
Well, you know. And so theGreek. Yeah, exactly, yeah,

Dave Leake (35:43):
right, you know, like, here's my issue, though,
here's my issue. So right now, Iwould say the the method of
sermon writing that I am inpersonally, that feels like it
is so much better than I've beenin before. Off if I could, and
this is the way I probably wrotefor five, seven years. It's like
I would get a ghetto idea, maybea verse, and I have that as the

(36:05):
core, and then I'm like,grinding and writing, and I'm
building out and praying itthrough, and then it gets done.
Often I would hit these sort of,like, writer's block moments,
and I'm like, Ah, where do Iwant to go? And I'm like,
pushing, and I'm pushing, andthen I'm like, Okay, this feels
good. Now what I do, I I feellike I often hit a moment where
I'm like, where do I want to gowith this? And I I've learned I

(36:27):
have to pause, and I have tojust like, worship for a little
bit, and I have to pray and letit simmer and settle. And then
I'm like, Oh, this is this. Soto me, it often feels like this
is actually new revelation thatmy previous voice couldn't have
written, because it's notsomething I would have said.
It's not like a me generatedthing. It feels like I'm like,
oh, you know, I've never reallythought about this passage in

(36:47):
this light, but I think this iswhat God's saying. And for North
side this weekend, like, this isa whole like, most of my
messages are, like, probably 50%Like, legitimately, time wise me
pausing, taking prayer walks,and then I come back when I feel
like I have a little more andthey're still the same build in
terms of the like, logicalprogression most of the time,
little tweaks here and there,but the voice sounds different.

(37:09):
So what I feel concerned aboutfor me, like, if it's just
writing, then I of course itcould do that. But I don't feel
like what I'm doing is justwriting. I feel like I'm
listening. You know what I mean?
Do? I don't know that you canreplace

Jeff Leake (37:22):
it. That's a good that's a good point. Because
unless

Dave Leake (37:25):
I can hear from the Holy Spirit for me, which I
don't, I can't even imagine howthat would ever work. I guess,
never say, Never, no, but youstretched me a

Jeff Leake (37:33):
little just by what you said. Like I, I, I probably
would have been more adverse toinput in the in the sermon,
crafting part than what I thanwhat you just explained. So I'm
willing to admit that I'm, I'm,like, behind the learning curve
on this. Probably everybody is.
I think most people are. Butlike, I'm way behind because of

(37:54):
my age and my adaptive abilityat this age to technology. So
what I don't want to do, becausethis is what happens oftentimes
with older generations, is thatwe tend to brand anything we
don't understand is evil. Do youknow what I mean? And so I think
we have to, we my generation,have to have the humility to
allow for this to emerge withpeople who are leading the way

(38:16):
and trying to figure out how toadapt it without immediately
reacting to it as inferior or animposter or whatever.

Dave Leake (38:25):
A lot of my generations react in that way
too, though, like, AI sucks.
Like, this is

Jeff Leake (38:30):
because, because it does change for them too. Yeah,
it's happening so fast. Yes,like,

Dave Leake (38:35):
like, Gen alpha and Gen Z, probably it's just, like,
it's just a part of the flow oftime, and they're never gonna
think of anything different. Iam a cut off. Where and you, how
old are you? 31 okay, I'm 34you're probably there with me
where it's, like, it's anintentional effort, like, I I
actually think you're not thatfar behind. I think a lot of
people are where you are, andthat I'm trying to, you know,

(38:59):
educate myself. So I don't, youknow, get there too, but so I
think that's, I guess I'msaying, I think that's really
common, yeah, you know, and

Will Host (39:06):
I would be there too if my livelihood didn't

Jeff Leake (39:10):
depend. Let me ask this question, if I, if I can't,
please, what's the dangers tosociety? Because, you know, I
always say, AI is either, youknow, this huge global event
that's going to terrifyeverything and take over, or
it's y 2k y 2k which was in mygeneration, everyone expected
that, you know, when we changedthe calendar to four digits,

(39:32):
that all computers would shutdown. And we actually, I
actually found a tape in my oldcollection of of tapes from
here, Allison Park. We had awhole night of planning at
Allison Park on what to do whenthe world shuts down. You come
to the church. Here's where youget your supplies, seriously. So
we were prepared for COVID.
Basically what became COVID. Wewere prepared for that. And then

(39:54):
we all woke up on New Year's Dayand it was like nothing happens
like AI. Yeah, is a, i, y, 2k,it's like, it's this evil thing
that's gonna like, well, youwant to telling me that these
two different AIS were assignedto talk to each other, and
within like, a day, they createdtheir own language, and they
were speaking to each other, orsomething

Will Host (40:14):
like that. No, I didn't tell you that. That is
true. Yeah? So like,

Jeff Leake (40:17):
all of a sudden they're gonna, like, a movie,
this evil thing is going to comeand they're going to decide
what's best for the human raceand kill us all. Like, is that,
is that, are we looking atsomething that's no thing, like,
it's just all hype, all thedays, the

Dave Leake (40:32):
internet is what I think the most comparable thing
is,

Jeff Leake (40:36):
just probably multiplied. Okay, so the
Internet has a lot of good and alot of really bad, but it isn't
gonna be the end of allhumanity. I don't think

Will Host (40:43):
it's gonna be the end of all humanity. I know he's
extremely politically chargedright now, but Elon Musk talked
about this really, really well,and his most optimistic view is
80% chance that this is gonna benot detrimental for humanity.
Okay, so the 20% chance that weare literally like in a on a
path toward the Terminator. Youknow?

Jeff Leake (41:06):
Well, let's just say why 2k was way more like 8020
the other way, everyone wasconvinced the word sure y, 2k
everyone thought the world

Will Host (41:14):
was ending where it's going to be detrimental is
people are going to lose theirjobs. Copywriters, I think,
proofreaders, a lot ofadministrative tasks. I wonder

Dave Leake (41:24):
if it was like court typer people that are, yep, say,
I can do it right. I can do itwhich so, by

Jeff Leake (41:29):
the way, will we stop learning languages too? I
saw somebody had like, a deal intheir ear, and they went into a
different country, andeverything that was said got
interpreted, yeah, remarkablyfast, so that they had, it was
like having a a translator inyour head, yes, which

Will Host (41:43):
actually did the time out right there. One of the key
ways that I think churches canimplement this is with language
translation. Oh, they can takeyour sermon and translate it
like pretty immediately intowhatever language. So you could
set up, kind of like rooms, likewe have for moms or whatever.
You set up rooms where you couldgo in, by the way,

Jeff Leake (42:00):
about a year ago now, Johannes paid to have a
version of himself created. Whatdo you call that an avatar?
Yeah, so that it could take hisbooks and translate them into
Swahili, yeah, so he could teachin Swahili, which he said was
kind of a risky thing back then,because then it could be
counterfeited, and he could bemade to say things that he

(42:22):
didn't really say, like,anybody's gonna do that? It
still was, like, very, like,robotic. It didn't have a flow.
But technically, could not bethe case too. Yeah, it could
take my sermon and translate itinto every language on Earth,
like, literally

Will Host (42:35):
right now, so easily.
And so we work for anothernonprofit, and they translate
materials all over the place,and it used to be a whole big,
long process. You got to findsomebody in that region and with
that native tongue to translatewhatever it is, whether it be a
book or whatever. So we

Jeff Leake (42:51):
have the revival Church International, which is a
Swahili speaking congregation. Icould preach a sermon on video,
yes, have it translated inSwahili and on the screen
everything, and they would beable to understand me 100%

Will Host (43:03):
now, yes, like we developed a custom software to
help with this customer, and wewere able to take our E courses,
books, whatever it might be, andwe can plug it into this
software, and line by line, ittranslates it into whatever You
want, Mandarin Kumai for theCambodians, whatever.
Immediately, producer Matt

Dave Leake (43:23):
had a had a projection of what he thinks
this is going to do to theworld. If you've seen wall Yeah,

Jeff Leake (43:30):
no, explain it to Wally. You never

Dave Leake (43:32):
seen the Pixar movie. This robot right here,
and the humans are all fat,super fat. They just float
around on these seats that takethem everywhere, keep them
perpetually entertained andstuff, or maybe, and they're
stupid, they're

Jeff Leake (43:45):
really, really dumb, or the matrix would be another
Yeah,

Dave Leake (43:48):
well, that feels, I mean, you could see, you could
see how it get there reallyeasily. Yes, okay, so, so let's,
can we assume that this episodeis coming after the one we just
recorded? Yes, okay, all right.
So then, so already beenannounced, but I'm obviously
planning a church inJacksonville, Florida. Here's
one of the things that I've had,a big question that I've been
ineffectively researching, thatmaybe you can help. And I think

(44:10):
this is probably a questionthat's more for leaders, like,
what are immediate things that,without special skills, can be
automated, that would be helpfulfor productivity, for for any
kind of leader, but I'm thinkingspecifically for me as a church
planter, like, or, or for youDad, like, what? What are some
things right now that you'relike, hear suggestions without
having the skills to what didyou call them a prompt engineer,

(44:32):
or to build your own software toautomate your voice? Like, what
can somebody do now? Or what areideas that you've seen or used
that would help boostproductivity efficiency, you
know, help with leadership, somethings people wouldn't be
thinking of. Yeah.

Will Host (44:49):
So if I was starting from nothing, I would start to
look for technology like it.
Sorry to use another term, likein my CRM. Every church has a
CRM, whether it be like PlanningCenter or something, to track
where CRM. Is a, like a customerrelationship management tool,

Dave Leake (45:02):
okay? So it's a database that keeps all the
information of the people that

Will Host (45:05):
go to church, and finding one that integrates well
with AI so that it can automatefirst time guest experiences and
emails and all that kind ofstuff. You don't that all that
can be automated now, yeah,completely automated for you
market research. How many peopleare in this town? And you're,
I'm sure the network's gonnaprovide you with some of that
stuff, but you can stuff, butyou can do it yourself. Sure,
with a you can say, hey, I'mgoing to Jacksonville. How many

(45:27):
people are in Jacksonville? Howmany people are in Jacksonville?
They're between ages of 25 and35 how many people are in this
particular zip code? You know?
What are the issues historicallywith this zip code

Dave Leake (45:38):
that can do that all Well, right now, yes, oh, wow,
crazy. You got to use the right

Will Host (45:42):
LLM there. Some of them are different. You know, I
found LLM learning languagemodel. Okay. Chat GPT is not all
there is sure about AI, there'smultiple chat GPT.

Jeff Leake (45:53):
Can we put in the show notes? Uh, producer Matt,
the things that will hadmentioned, the other ones, would
you call them?

Will Host (45:59):
Grok? Grok, that's, that's Elon's, and then Claude
is another one that's supergood.

Jeff Leake (46:05):
You know, what's really scary to me is that Elon
Musk, who's so maybe thesmartest man alive today, says
there's a 20% chance this couldbe really bad. I'm gonna have a
hard time sleeping today.

Will Host (46:17):
It's not hard to imagine. I mean, look at how
much has happened in the lastyear.

Jeff Leake (46:21):
Yeah, it's like, what aim weapon systems at us
and blow us the piece? Whoknows, start a

Will Host (46:26):
virus or who knows?
That's really creepy, and isreally creepy.

Jeff Leake (46:32):
I mean, I'd rather be the fat kid in the wall to
the matrix. Wally, right? You'venever seen Wally. I don't think
I holds like, who doesn't fall?
I stopped watching kids movieswhen I stopped having kids that
you still had kids at

Dave Leake (46:45):
the time. This is like 20 years ago. I probably,
anyways, so

Will Host (46:48):
another thing with launching, you're gonna want to
launch with a lot of materialstoo, right? To start getting the
name out there, yourself outthere, establishing yourself as
a thought leader, as a spiritualleader, in a town you've not
really ever been in, right? Youknow, we're gonna help you with
some of the brand stand up andstuff like

Dave Leake (47:03):
that. But you're gonna be my sensei, my AI.
Sensei, AI,

Will Host (47:06):
can help you get so much further. You could go in
there with books and, yeah, youknow, all kinds of Bible reading
plans and small groupcurriculum, and just smash it
from the answer.

Dave Leake (47:15):
We go, Yeah, I can't wait. We're going full, uh, what
do they say? Full arms, live orwhatever. I can't remember the
term, can't wait. Yeah, okay, soI feel like, I feel like there's
gonna be, over the next severalyears, a bunch of topics that
are like this that probablybecome like, I don't know if
ethical questions is the rightword, but things to work

(47:36):
through, because this is a brandnew piece of technology. I feel
a little dry, though, like so Ithink I get this better than
what I did before. Is thereanything that's on either of
your minds, like concerns, bigquestions, you know,
opportunities that feel like, Doyou know what I'm saying,
especially from a churchperspective?

Jeff Leake (47:56):
So I would just say, I wonder if Allison Park
leadership network could be athought leader in this way, in
that would it be possible for usto create a site on our web page
with some a quick tutorial,tutorial in five or 10 basic
ways you could use AI to benefityour church? Is that out there

(48:18):
somewhere? Maybe just,

Will Host (48:19):
I mean, I'm sure it's out there, but we could create
it ourselves, and it couldliterally for

Jeff Leake (48:23):
us that actually might be worth a worthy
objective coming out of this,and then maybe, I don't know
further, so we have a lot ofpeople who listen to this who
aren't pastors or leadinganything. They're just church
members. What? What could a,what could an everyday person
who's trying to make, let's say,build their faith. Is there any

(48:44):
ways that this AI thing, couldyou mentioned a couple, like a
customized program or how toread the Bible? Is there
anything that you would say thiscould help you spiritually, or
this might help you in yourcareer, or anything like that?
Yeah,

Will Host (48:58):
and I think it's just reiterating to the things and
maybe expounding a little bit.
So church home, for example, hasa pastor bought that is what is
church home. Church home isJudah Smith. Judas Okay, okay,
Judas Smith, all his sermons,all his books, whatever you can
ask Judah, anything you want.
Okay, so his voice, but it's nothim, you know. So it's like,

(49:19):
Judah, man, I'm struggling withshame. What do you have to say
about that? And he would tellyou what he said about it from
his past sermon. So I mean,that's that sounds crazy, but
people are doing it for me. Soyou're

Jeff Leake (49:29):
saying it might be good for for the church to try
to find out tools we should

Dave Leake (49:34):
just make you a pastor bot. You have like 100%
almost 40 years of messages atthis point that would be really
easy to plug into something.
Yeah,

Will Host (49:42):
ask pastor Jeff.
Okay, we should do it, and it'llprobably extremely accurate, but
there's that. And then I likewhat I often do. Like if I've
got something on my mind, or ifI'm struggling with something,
or want to build my faith in acertain area, like sowing and
reaping and giving or somethinglike that, I'll tell it where I.
Like, I'm deficient or whatever,and it'll just give me back some
Bible verses to be meditatingon. I didn't have to go find

(50:04):
them. It's just like, all right,you want to strengthen your
faith in the area of sowing andreaping and with your
generosity. Here's some versesto begin.

Jeff Leake (50:12):
Do you think it's going to hit the medical field
at all? Oh, yeah. Like, youcould say, Hey, this is my body
shape and body type in my bloodtest deals, I want to know what
the best diet plan is for

Will Host (50:23):
me. That's already happening. That is already
entire companies that are doingthat exactly. In fact, I just
read an article on how so AIcustomizable

Jeff Leake (50:31):
to you that would help you become better and, in
general, slap my hand, but Iwanted to eat something bad.

Unknown (50:37):
Well, that's a good

Jeff Leake (50:39):
question. Bet that hand

Unknown (50:41):
the Terminator, yeah, builds itself a body.

Jeff Leake (50:46):
Exactly. No,

Will Host (50:47):
there was an article, it's using AI now that they can
detect like breast cancer andwomen like way earlier. Wow,
way, way, way, way, way that

Jeff Leake (50:56):
you told me in 1975 when I was 11 years old, that
this world would exist wouldhave been hard for me to even
conceive, let alone just havinga phone in my hand that operates
like a computer, which wasn'teven anything I knew about at
the time, at 75 and so, like,it's just so so hard people
older than me that are listeningto this, I know that you have to

(51:16):
be like, what is happening toour world so crazy. Things are
moving so fast well,

Will Host (51:21):
and if I can give one more critique of it, because I
came in wanting to push on theAI to make sure that, like,
people don't build falseperceptions of it. It's going to
change every month. You got toget on the bandwagon. You just
have to where it's going to hurtis critical thinking, logic
skills. We already suck at that.
Applied

Dave Leake (51:38):
Research, yeah, it does research for you, but
actually taking and using itwell is really different, yeah,

Will Host (51:44):
and just those critical thinking skills on, you
know, it's like what you saidabout strengthening the muscle,
about knowing where to go in theBible, or, you know how to draw
correlations properly. That'strue for everybody. Like if, if
it's automating all of that asgreat as giving us 50% of our
time back it is we're going tobe extremely in our watch,
because

Jeff Leake (52:04):
that picture of the fat kids put it back up there
for us. Producer Matt from Wallythe movie, like spiritually, or
as a in your study of theScripture, or even in the way
that you approach perseverancein your faith, you could, I
could see how very quickly webecome that,

Dave Leake (52:22):
and what that doesn't do for you. It doesn't
build emotional resilience.
Yeah? So like, if you if youdon't develop certain muscles,
then yeah, the anxiety anddepression crisis that we're in
is only going to

Jeff Leake (52:34):
spike having all the right answers to your mental
health issues doesn't give youmental health. No, it doesn't.
It actually, you have toactually make some choices and
build character. No one can dothat for you.

Dave Leake (52:44):
So Jordan, now we're just having this conversation.
He's teaching, uh, prisonepistles right now in the
Allison spark leadership,leadership academy. He was just
like, it's weird, because whenwe went to school in 2010 like
you, you could Google somestuff. Most stuff wasn't on the
internet for this like so we hada whole massive library, Bible
resources. It's like, nowsomebody can just, you know, ask

(53:05):
everything about, yeah, the bookof Mark, and you'll get when it
was written in, you know, all ofhis themes and, you know,
critical articles on andwhatever. And he was like, Do we
even need to go to college forthis anymore? And I was like,
well, so you can find theinformation way quicker, but the
applying it and using itcorrectly

Jeff Leake (53:22):
and integrating it into your own thoughts,

Dave Leake (53:25):
yeah, like there, there are some things that are
going to be irreplaceable,spiritual warfare,

Jeff Leake (53:31):
tearing down strongholds, memorizing
Scripture, none of that's AI.
It's got to be you.

Will Host (53:36):
Totally sorry you keep going. Well, no, no, this
is so good. Um, so like in someof my circles, I have leaders
that are really big on just giveme the bullet points, right?
Rather than read a book, I wantthe Cliff Notes. Just give me
the biggest things. AI can dothat really well. But there's
still something to reading anovel, even if it's got one good
nugget, like the way it makesyou feel, the way it makes you

(53:57):
think, the way it makes youintrospect, and, you know,
question things like, it's a

Jeff Leake (54:03):
movie trailer of the Bible is not just the same as
the Bible, right? That examplethat I

Will Host (54:09):
gave where I, you know, I was deficient in my
faith in an area, and I asked itto give me five scriptures that
was great for that day. Does itcompare to me? Like, I want to
know what God has to say aboutthis. I want to dig through his
word for it, right? No, there'sno way that can replace that
digging and reading. You

Jeff Leake (54:26):
know, maybe what just differentiates us as people
of excellence in the future isthose that choose to build the
muscles. What do you call them?
The the applied research muscle,yeah, right. Logical thinking,
the logic and critical thinkingmuscle, the the resilience
muscle, the endurance muscle,the, you know, this empathy
muscle, like all of those thingsare going to still be maybe

(54:49):
they'll be more important in thefuture, because they'll be more
rare. The

Will Host (54:55):
scary thing, though, is that as this humanity, we are
not particularly disciplined.
And already, and it's going tobe harder and harder and harder
to do that, because you're goingto go against the grain to do
that, because it's going to beso easy to go the easy route,
that makes sense, which is

Jeff Leake (55:09):
why I can almost see sort of a prophetic movement of
rebellion against this. Oh, Ihope that'd be great. Like I can
see people like they used tomove to the desert and live in a
cave and the plastics, yeah, orthe Amish who say we will not
use any technology. I can almostsee reaching a place where
people say, I don't want thisworld anymore. I want to go back

(55:29):
to something much more human.
And

Will Host (55:34):
I hope that's the case in the business world,
where right now, you canincrease your click through
rates on like, ads, headlinesand stuff, just by putting the
the word AI in, it's so, sodriven right now. So AI driven
solutions, whatever, whereveryou're at putting that in your
headline increases clickthroughs and

Dave Leake (55:53):
sure you already know that, but put it in the
headline,

Will Host (55:58):
I hope in the future, you're going to see that flip
and it's like, human, centered,whatever. Yeah,

Jeff Leake (56:04):
I don't see that. I would love that I could see
that, yeah, because I feel thateven now, like a part of me,
inside of me, says I don't thatI want this, like, I do want it,
but I don't know that I want allof it, and I'm not sure what I
like it's gonna like, what Ithink it's gonna do. Here's

Dave Leake (56:19):
the thing. Here's the thing, well, every time
something like this happens,there's just different
supplements to take fordeficiencies. So there's just
going to be different needs thechurch is going to be meeting,
because AI could be bad, will bebad for character, in many ways.
But I think what we focus on,the way we talk about it, it's
just going to have to bedifferent supplements to build,
you know, Jesus lifestyle, whereAI wants to cheat some of those

(56:43):
things. So And can

Will Host (56:45):
I ask you one more question? I know we're going to
get Yeah, time we can cut thisoff if we want, but I want to
ask you a provoking question,why couldn't AI save someone?
Why couldn't AI? I

Jeff Leake (56:56):
guess they could. I guess it was a choice of the
church to say we prefer thisthen, to be a human interaction.
And

Will Host (57:03):
what's your take on that, if we had a bot, if we're
612, months in the future, andwe do ask pastor Jeff or
whatever, and your bot self isleading people to Jesus.

Jeff Leake (57:14):
So I think if you think of salvation only as a
transactional moment, that'sprobably possible. But if you
think of as it a discipleshipjourney, you need a human for
that,

Dave Leake (57:26):
yeah? But the thing that so that I've been thinking
about this since ourconversation at Longhorn, the
salvation moment could occur.
Could on a bot, and then youcould pass out somebody for
discipleship. There's definitely

Jeff Leake (57:39):
going to be, yeah, yeah, I guess.

Dave Leake (57:42):
Well, you were, I think it could say the right
things, but there is a certainhuman to human interaction,
yeah, that is gonna need aphysical presence. It's not

Jeff Leake (57:51):
the greatest conversion story. It's really
was in my basement and I wastalking to the bot. Well, it
sounds bad

Will Host (57:56):
now. Tracks get people saved. I'm

Jeff Leake (58:01):
traveling. Is, I'm probably having an old fashioned
reaction to it.

Dave Leake (58:05):
I have that reaction internally. But I'm like, Well,
if that's going to spread theGospel, yeah,

Jeff Leake (58:11):
and but I get why the church would say pass that
off to us, because we want tohandle I did too. I'm not saying
that it's not possible. It maybe preferred for it to be a
human to human.

Unknown (58:22):
Totally. Yeah, yep.
Okay, thank you.

Dave Leake (58:24):
That's really good.
Yeah, I think this is a brain,like a painful brain exercise
for me, because I feel likethere's so many projections that
go out from here. But one thingI sort of will say in closing is
I think that that because thisis such a thing, and it's really
in its infancy. I mean, if we'retalking about the scope of the
lifetime of this, I do thinkyour idea for pastors and for

(58:46):
Christians of how we can usethis as as Christians in an
effective way to kind of staywith the flow of the world could
be a really effective tool rightnow for churches like, maybe we
kind of get in a flow where theHoly Spirit gives a grace and
anointing, you know, I mean, forpastors to reach people more
effectively. And I thinkregardless as to what happens,

(59:09):
even in that 20% Elon Muskscenario, like, we have to trust
that God is working through thisand that he's, you know, he's
gonna bring something out ofthis. So I, I don't know it's my
brain hurts, but, but I do trustthat God's God's in the middle
of

Jeff Leake (59:26):
all of it. Thank you, man, yeah. And again, if
you want to find out more aboutwhat and Doc does currently, we
don't know what it will do inthe future

Dave Leake (59:37):
before they become prompt engineers.

Jeff Leake (59:41):
No, seriously, will has been an incredible asset to
Allison Park Church and doshaand D, O, C, I, a.com, can't
recommend it highly enough. Sothank you for being on this
episode. Appreciate

Dave Leake (59:53):
it, and thank you for listening. Glad that you're
always a part of thisconversation. If you're a
regular listener, if you're new,we just want. To give a big
shout out to you and say thanksfor jumping on to be part of the
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(01:00:15):
doing. So we appreciate youguys. We'll see you guys again
next time you.