ep16 Jessica Lemmon is entertained

Episode Transcript
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alexi (00:01):
This is Alexi.
We just wanted to jump on hereand let everyone know that this
is the end of season one,

Glen Erickson (00:06):
It is been a great first season.
Some great friends, some guests,and lots of learning in our
first trip around the block,podcasting, and we're gonna take
a little break to get thingsready for season two.

alexi (00:17):
but this isn't a dead stop for us.
Stay tuned for a few podcastshorts with my dad and I before
the beginning of our secondseason.
I.

Podcast shorts, mini, mini episodes, mini
episodes, mini shorts,

alexi (00:29):
Podcast, mini, short, sos, et cetera.

short episodes.
So thank you for all yoursupport.
It's been super fun andmeaningful, and we're really
excited to keep it going inseason two.
So we're gonna see you verysoon.
Thank you.

alexi (00:44):
Bye.

Bye.
The past few years have been themost challenging and rewarding
for me in my recent day job,career aspirations, challenging
and rewarding.
When getting asked the cliche,how's the job question?
During frequent smalltalkencounters, I developed a
templated answer of, it's good.

(01:07):
It's hard, but it's good.
And that seemed to bother somepeople I knew.
Why do I need to say it's hard?
Well, because the truth is itwas challenging and rewarding,
good and hard.
The truth isn't alwayscomfortable, and I guess not
what we are always prepared tohear.

(01:27):
Jessica Lemmon has built acareer from her youthful,
wide-eyed aspirations.
Through the mountainous rise andfall hard knocks of opportunity
sought out, given and takenaway.
As founder and CEO of LemmonEntertainment, she translated
early success with artistmanagement and event production
into career shapingopportunities with the Lemmon

(01:48):
stage at the Van's Warp TourLive Nation, the Junos Awards,
the Great Cup, and many, manymore.
And for every impressiveinitiative and achievement that
she shared, Jessica had thevulnerability to open the book
on how ageism, sexism, jealousy,and insecurity presented equally
significant challenges androadblocks to her career.

(02:11):
If you're interested in realstories, not stereotypes, the
rewards always come withchallenges.
When you tell your story, itwill likely have been good,
hard.
But good.
And if you're lucky, when youtell that story, you might find
it still wrapped in beautifuloptimism and remnants of

(02:31):
wide-eyed aspirations for whatyou love to do.
My name is Glen Erickson.
This is Almost Famous Enough.
Thanks for spending your timewith us.
This is Jessica Lemmon.

Jess Lemmon (02:55):
Alright,

You good?
Are we good?

we are all set.

Okay.
Jessica Lemmon, CEO, and founderof Lemmon Entertainment.
But what I'm actuallyimmediately happy about is I
just realized your little nametag on our recording platform
says Jess Lemmon, which justmakes me really happy.
'cause I always called you Jessand I'm like, we are in a way
reconnecting and.
I'm one.

(03:20):
It's one of those things thatI'll often ask somebody, do I
still get to call you Jess?
if we, if we haven't like,talked on a regular basis for
like 10 years or whatever itwas.
So, if I call you Jess, I'massuming then it's okay.
Partway

is definitely okay.
And yeah, I think I, until youbring it up, I forgot that.
Yeah, you did always call meJess, but maybe that's why I
always felt just like aconnection to you is you just
went, went there right away.
I've never liked Jessica.
I tend, most people call meLemmon these days

But it's always been just for me.
You're right.
and yeah, I always go right toit, so Jess, you are president,
founder, CEO, founder LemmonEntertainment, which has a lot
of other factions.
I want to talk about all of thatin a quick second.
but since you just sort ofidentified that we go way back
and we have this very, we'vealways had this real ease of

(04:09):
friendship and relationship,which I appreciated.
we might as well just like havefun and get that.
Out of the way and let everybodylisten to us.
Reconnect for a second.
I feel like the last time wehung out was 2013.
I think I've seen you sincethen, but think the last time we
hung out was 2013.
I think when I think of youJess, there's two things that

(04:30):
stick out in my head.
Okay.
I'm gonna tell you both of them.
The first one is, the last timeI saw you, I think it's 2013
North by Northeast in Toronto.
You had moved there, been therefor a little bit.
I'm pretty sure that was thetime this happened, but, I
connected with you.
I said I'm in town for thefestival like I always did when
I came out.
you have any time to hang out?
And you of course did, butyou're always super busy'cause

(04:54):
you make you, you were gettingyour foot in the door back then

That's right.

of things in Toronto and North by Northeast
was one of the big.
conferences in, in the country.
and that night we wanted to gosee some people at, shoot, I
can't remember.
It wasn't the Great Hall, it wasthe big music hall there?
It doesn't matter.
That part doesn't matter.
But you did take me and you'relike, we're gonna go Edwin, from

(05:19):
I Mother Earth had a bar.

Oh my

you're

goodness.

we're going

Yes.
That,

go to Edwin's Bar.

yeah.
I think

like all rock and

something, yes.

Was it And it had like the cutouts in the elevated
cutouts in the wall of dancingfor dancing girls in them and
stuff.
It was like kind of a trippybar.
Like I was like holy shit.
It felt like more,'cause thishappens sometimes, but that's
where I was like Toronto tryingto be New York.
That's like that bar felt likeToronto trying

Absolutely did.
Yeah, that's long gone.
I forgot all about that place.

Yeah.
Well this is what's fun aboutgoing down memory lane is

Yeah,

things you totally forgot.
And so like that's one of'em.
'cause I thought that washilarious and I just had fun
'cause we were like cab hoppingaround the city.
And that's like my favoritething at the festivals in
Toronto is to like just cab hopto as many things as you can.
And you were always real fun onthose.
But the other thing that standsout to me about you, that's
always been one of my favoritememories is all the way back to,

(06:17):
I think it might've beenJanuary, 2010, my band, the
Wheat Pool, had released oursecond record Hunter Ontario in
the fall of 2009 and we weregonna record our second video
for it.
and we were recording that videoand my friend Greg came out from
Vancouver and there was freshsnow all over the place.

(06:37):
And we had this concept of likeone of the brothers in the band,
uh,'cause we were like doing allthe, you know, the somber,
solemn walking in black andwhite.
And, and then you figure outtowards the end it's like this
thing where he was actuallydead.
It's almost, you know, it's kindof this like, uh, because we had
like the little

I think it was the first funeral I ever been to.

Well.
I just remember being like, Ineed someone who is gonna stand
out in a black and white film.
I need like a young woman to belike, as if it was the, the
female partner left behind kindof person.
And you had always stuck out tome.
And I knew you.
I didn't know you terribly well,I don't think.
But had like a whole, but youhad a whole bunch of photos.

(07:21):
You went and you would go anddo, I think photo shoots with
your friend and you were sophotogenic.
And I'm like, this is the rightperson.
And you were more than willing.
And here's my favorite thingabout that, not that we did a
video and I'm taking this momentto be able to tell everybody
about my music video from 16years ago.
Is that, you remember?
They've torn it down now.
I had, we had you walk in thatold hotel

at some, yeah.
Motel.
Yeah.
White.
My.

And you were wearing like practically
stilettos through the snow.
You were very graceful by theway.
you had to keep doing this slowwalk over and over and over for
us.
But then Greg asked if you canproduce a tier and in like minus
20 winter in Edmonton andyou're, you did, you produced a
tear us in minus 20 weather.

(08:09):
got the closeup.
It's in the

It was definitely crying for the cold, not good
acting skills, I'll tell you.

Well, maybe a combination, but that's my other
seminal memory of, of JessicaLemmon in my life.

That is so funny.
I think one of my first, and Iwouldn't have even called it
that at the time, um, anxietyattacks, was finding wardrobe
for that video shoot.
I had nothing.
I had absolutely nothing.
So whatever I ended up puttingtogether was yes, stress me out
more than you, you would've everknown.

Well now everybody listening who's like,
I gotta know what the wardrobechoice ended up being.
The song is called Lefty

Yep.

Wheat Pool, and I am literally unsure if it's
actually even on YouTube still.
It probably

Well, I'm definitely gonna,

to find it.

after this, I, you're right.

gonna too.
Yeah.

We did not know each other very well at all.
It was at a time that I was sointerested in the music scene of
Edmonton, but I was very green.
I lived in rural Alberta at thetime myself, so I didn't have a
lot of connections, throughEdmonton.
But the, the girl in the photoshoot that you referenced was

(09:21):
actually the first artist I evermanaged, and she begged me to be
her manager.
I, by no means thought I wasqualified.
However, I took a step back andthought, you know, I know more
than she does, so I guess whynot?
Why wouldn't this work?
So, When that relationshipstarted, it was a organic way

(09:43):
for me to open up some doors inthe Edmonton music scene.
and Steve Derpack in Edmonton,he was the biggest Wheat Pool
fan.
I think he suggested, uh, yourmusic to me, and I did.
I became a very, very big WheatPool fan.
After that.
Probably went to every one ofyour shows and through that
ended up connecting and, andgetting to meet you.

(10:05):
And I do remember early on justbeing very.
admired you a lot for not onlythe work that you did as a
guitarist in the band, but youhad, uh, shameless, the label
going at the time.
It was shameless, right?
Yeah.
Um, and you were actively, um,involved in other things in the
music scene and I just, yeah, Isaw you doing so much and it

(10:28):
just was very inspiring, um, tome at that, that stage in my
journey.

Well, I guess the podcast is over.
That's all I needed you to sayand tell everybody, toot my
horn.
I'm just kidding.
That's very sweet of you,Jessica.
I appreciate it.
And yeah, Steve has been a greatfan and supporter all along and
um, it's nice hearing a storythat he was influencing other
people, like, who doesn't wantto hear that too?
But I, I remember also, like yousaid, you started getting

(10:54):
involved.
So I remember encountering you,I think, through Alberta music
and you being involved in someevents and working with them, if
I'm not wrong at the time aswell.
So I kinda knew you.
We would talk, we would seethings.
And so this is a great place tostart the conversation because
you have this company that I'vewatched grow over this time.
And you said like, I was justlike a young person from rural

(11:17):
Alberta, you know, in the city.
Maybe I knew a little more aboutsome music than the other
person.
And you started pluggingyourself in to learn things.
You also had a really cool youngpunk rock chic look about you
with your black hair.
And I just thought you, like,you fit the industry really
well.
And then I probablysubconsciously did the stupid,

(11:38):
privileged white male in thebusiness thing where I just
assumed is gonna make me soundterrible that because I really,
I've always really liked you andrespected you, and yet I
probably still made assumptionslike you were just sort of
hanging around for the couple ofdifferent areas that you liked
in the, in the business.
Do you know what I mean?
because if you weren't on thestage playing music, there
weren't a lot of women on theother side of it.

No, especially, there was maybe one woman on the
other side of it in Edmonton atthat time, and her name was, is
Shauna.
She's still very active, in thelive music scene and because of
her, I actually felt.
There was, I, I could, there wasno opportunity for me, uh, at
that time.
So I, I appreciate you kind ofacknowledging that.

(12:22):
And for me, it took till I wasin my late.
Probably, actually early to midthirties before I was able to
look back on it and see how verydifficult it was being a woman
in this space and also, in mymid thirties started to feel
very sad for, for old, younger,me who came into this industry

(12:47):
so bright-eyed, so passionate,and with so much care.
and my only intention was tohelp everyone within it and do
the best work possible.
I, I grew up an honors studentin school.
My parents thought I was goingto, um, university to become a
doctor or a, or a lawyer.

(13:09):
Um, but I found music very earlyon.
as a safe space for me,specifically, the live music,
uh, punk rock community inEdmonton was the safest space
that I had in my life, andthat's what drove me into the
music business.
But I didn't have much of aneducation on what I could
actually do in the musicbusiness.
So the first, the, the onlyopportunities that I, I, or the

(13:32):
thing that I wanted to be was onstage with the laminate, the
crew laminate.
That was something that drove meand I didn't really know what
that meant.
And, let alone the businessside.
So at an early age, 16, 17, 18,I promoted for my friends'
bands.
I helped set, send out theirdemos to radio stations.
I sold merchant shows.
I did anything and everythingjust to be around the music, not

(13:56):
even at that time thinking abouta career in that space.
But it was, again, my safespace.
And I loved the, the people thatwere within it.
And unfortunately, the minute Istarted to work or formalize or
try to have a presence in themusic community as an artist
manager, it got pretty dark,pretty fast in the way that I

(14:21):
was just constantly battlingjudgments.
And even more than that.
a really good example actuallyof of, of what, um, I'm sure a
lot of women, hopefully not asmuch today, but dealt with, is I
worked my ass off for LiveNation, um, as a runner.
For those listeners that don'tknow, a runner will usually like

(14:42):
pick up artists from theairport, transport to their
hotels, help with groceries.
and I got asked to do a shorttour, um, with Hadley, a band at
the time that was doing anAlberta tour.
And for me this was, oh my God,a dream come true.
I'm doing a small tour.
Uh, I picked up the rentalvehicle.
I picked up the promoter and wewent to, to do our first show.

(15:05):
I made sure everything wasperfect for that, for that
event.
I was a production assistant.
And yet at, I never went on thebus with the band.
I didn't go into dressing rooms.
For me, like being professionalwas the most important.
And you brought it up.
I had a look.
To me, I was, I was young, I wasa, a, a girl that loved music.
I got my first tattoo at 18, butI, every time I was on a music

(15:29):
job, I was there to do a verygood job.
And at the end of that tour, Idrove the promoter rep back to
the, uh, airport and he lookedover at me and said, I will
never hire you again.
You are too distracting for thecrew and for me, that was.

Wow.

The harshest thing I could ever hear because I
thought my doors were opening.
I was like, I went from being aone-off show runner in Edmonton
to being on my first tour.
I was so proud of the job I did,the problems I solved.
I didn't talk to any of thecrew.
I didn't do anything, but I didreject this promoter rep who
wanted to share a bed with me onthat tour.

(16:07):
And so I could only assume thatthe attention I did get from an
all male crew that was on thattour to him was enough that he,
he didn't like it.
And so that was the beginning,very early beginning of what was
something I faced again andagain of just opportunities
being closed for me simplybecause of control others had,

(16:30):
but the reputation that wouldstart to get back to me about
myself.
was something I had to battlefor a very long time.
Still do.

Well, well I appreciate you telling that
story'cause I was gonna see ifthere was an example when you
said things got dark reallyfast.
And that is an incredibleexample.
To be honest, I thought it mightbe going a different direction
when you said Headley and,

Yeah.

and the fiasco that blew up with lead singer
Jacob

Yeah.

uh, his indiscretions.

Mm-hmm.

but also not surprising, unfortunately, you
know,

Yeah.
Got lots of opinions around thatone too.

Well, I mean, and this is just the thing is, um,
you obviously fit in reallywell.
I had felt from the first timesI met you, you fit in well
because of that enthusiasm andthat passion you had good social
EQ and charm and all things thatare important in this business
sometimes as much as theknow-how.

Absolutely.

but you were obviously like that's a very
early stage to get the messagethat it's only going as far as
you look and, and as far aswhatever we, judge on the
package, so I mean that, thatleads to a few things'cause I'm
sure that might be a threadthrough some of these things in
your story.
So,'cause you're in Edmonton andyou're doing those things and

(17:56):
then you move to Toronto and Iknew like, and again this is a
move that artists make, right?
To try to make it so I rememberalways thinking, is Jess doing?
Like, is she going to Torontojust'cause she's bored of
Edmonton or she, or is therereal opportunities?
But I, I didn't have as muchcontact with you anymore to know
what that move was.

(18:17):
So all I've seen in the largerarc of your career just was you
getting involved big time in alot of different areas.
You moving to Toronto with thesame bright-eyed goals and
aspirations where I've usuallyseen everybody go there, get
crushed and a half times outta10.
and then I see, I don't evenknow how many years you can tell
me down the road where all of asudden a Lemmon stage on the

(18:40):
Vans Warped tour.
I.

Hell yeah.

like, holy shit, how does, how did she land that,
is that literally your stagenamed after you?
And then I'm like, well, ofcourse it is.
and then starting to see thathang around in some different
areas, the name pop up more andmore, start to see you and the
things you're putting out thereas Lemmon entertainment and
continue to see a trajectory ofwhat I thought was going with a

(19:05):
skill in just sort of productionmanagement and building become
like so many more things alongthe way, which I have found so
incredible and so inspiring.
And so let's just keep goingfrom right there.
And tell me about the move toToronto and what

I want to, this is exciting for me actually, as I
haven't revisited, but thereason I went to Toronto was
where I wanted to go wasVancouver, but similar to seeing
a lot of people move to Torontoand get spit back out, I had
seen a lot of people, um, thathad moved to Vancouver and it
was too expensive and they cameback to Edmonton.
At that time of my life, I,well, first I noticed there was

(19:45):
nowhere for me to go in themusic industry in Edmonton.
It was, there was a smaller, andI think live, I was very drawn
to live and at that time I wasdoing some work, running, uh,
working on local musicfestivals, getting my hand in
absolutely everything.
But I respected anybody.
That was ahead of me, working inthe jobs that I wanted to have,
such as being able to run ashow.

(20:06):
and I, unless those people weregonna literally have a jamer
and, and pass, there was not,there was no opportunity for me.
So Toronto I went to, I didn'tknow anybody except for, um, one
management company.
'cause at that time I hadalready done a little bit of
touring, um, with Our Lady Peaceand I knew that Vancouver looked

(20:29):
like a dead end.
I knew the music industry was,was primarily in Toronto, so I
just, I did it.
I packed up, I had a little, um,hatchback car, packed it up and,
and went with really no planother than I had saved up enough
money that I would not work forthree months so that I could
volunteer at both Canadian MusicWeek and the Juno Awards.

(20:50):
I did think in the move toToronto that I would be
bartending for about threeyears.
While I used my spare time toget to know the industry there,
I was fully prepared to haveabout a three year, journey into
the industry because that's whatit took at Edmonton.
I had to really prove myself toeven.
Be welcomed in, in a paidposition.

(21:11):
Um, there, so what ended uphappening though, is I did those
volunteer roles and very quicklyrealized that all of the skills
that I developed in Edmontonwere, I was rising to the top in
Toronto.
So everybody would promote me tolike the supervisor of
volunteers.
I was offered three jobs afterCanadian Music Week, um, one as

(21:33):
an assistant at a, at theTragically Hips Management
Company.
Um, one as a promoter rep for aEDM promoter and one as a tour
manager for a pop artist.
And again, I was in shock.
I was so happy, couldn't believethe opportunities that I had
only dreamed of having.
And then I was just stressed outabout which one do I take?

(21:55):
and at that point in my life, Iwas, again, back to being
inspired by someone like youthat did I.
Many things.
I figured out how to do themall.
And I did, I took all three jobsand that gave me the first,
yeah, that was, um, that was areally exciting period in the
music business for me because Iwas now getting into the music

(22:18):
business.
Everybody in Edmonton told me Iwould fail.
They, the people that I hadaround me in Edmonton, in the
music space, that I reallythought were supportive, as soon
as they found out I was going toToronto, they all were just
like, you're gonna be small fishin a big pond, good luck.
Like there wasn't support.
And that just drove me evenharder to go prove, prove

(22:39):
everybody wrong.
But, uh, sadly that is a patternthat that followed me
throughout.
But at that, yeah, that momentin Toronto was so exciting.
I was exposed to so much, but itwas also the first time I was
entering the music business.
Everybody also warned me about,about being.
Not so great.
and young and naive, I refusedto hear that.
I was like, no, it's awesome.
I'm gonna make it awesome.

(23:00):
I love it.
This is where my heart is.
But as I started to formalizerelationships in these office
environments, I was exposed to alot of business operations that
I couldn't agree with.
My values were against, I thinkI went into the music business
very much with an artist's firstperspective because I came up

(23:22):
with artists.
I've always supported artists.
that's who I ultimately careabout.
I identify with crew and artistsand the tour bus much more than
than a suit.
And as I started to get intothese environments, I, I was
really let down because I, I.
I started to see that I couldn'tlearn from anyone above me and I

(23:44):
couldn't operate in the waysthat, that I was being directed
and still, you know, hold theintegrity that I have and the
care.
So I quickly, you know, I thinkI ended up jumping back and
doing some, some touring, as Ikind of realized, wow, these,
these office spaces aren't someplace that I wanna be.
I worked as a freelancer didagain, I was still very

(24:07):
involved.
In many different things.
And another battle I faced earlyon in my, my story in Toronto
was, Jess, you do too manythings.
You're never gonna besuccessful.
You have to just stop sellingmerch or no one's gonna see you
as a manager.
and to a degree, they were, theywere right.
The Toronto market was verydifferent than Edmonton, where

(24:28):
it was easy, it was accepted andalmost like celebrated when I
was doing all of these differentthings and keeping busy and kind
of, it was just the way there.
Um, in Toronto, you were kindof, you needed an identity and
it didn't work what I was doing.
So I listened to a lot of thatadvice and started to try to
think of, okay, what do I wannabe, what do I wanna become?

(24:49):
Um, and at that time I kind ofput.
All my focus into being a verygood live event producer.
and then in that time I decidedfestivals was really where I
wanted to be.
I started applying foropportunities and jobs, and I
got offered a job with a EG, towork on their music festivals.
One summer, the same day I gotoffered a job with Live Nation

(25:11):
to work as a promoter assistant.
And that I, I've got a few timesin my life that I had to choose,
and those were,

Mm-hmm.

were very tough things.
But I, I went with Live Nationand then that became my first
really fully committed role andled to, Lemmon Stage.
So if you wanna get into wherethat started, that, that did
happen at Live Nation.

From Live Nation.
Okay.
So, okay, let's take one quicksidebar,

Yeah.

that I'm interested in your perspective
since you're very observant andintuitive at the same time.
you had mentioned in there thatI wasn't gonna learn from those
above me.
And so there is an aspect that'spretty universal.
I think of two things.
One is, in a lot of corporateworld, which the music business

(26:00):
is actually quite runcorporately, in the suits and in
the offices.
You know, there's so much, likethe music business, I should
actually say is so like nobodywent to school for that stuff,
right?
Like they just mostly got intoit.
Some of those people maybe hadsome marketing degrees and some
people had some business degreesat the top, and then they just
found their way in at somepoint.

(26:21):
But a lot of other people justfound their way in and

Yes.

their way up by perseverance and attrition, not
by skills or leadershipabilities.
And what's so interesting to meis that all the people who had
got in that way, how little workand effort has been done by them
to change how then, how well youcan train others up and take
responsibility for it, right?

Yes.

them.
And I guess I was just wonderingif that's accurate in your mind.
I like not making excuses forthem, but I feel like imposter
syndrome is so rampant as wellas a result of actually got
trained for this.
And you work your way up andthen all of a sudden you have
responsibility for things thatyou don't feel inside you have
any business being responsiblefor.

(27:09):
But if I show any weakness, I'mout because it's also very thin
margins in our, in the world.

Yeah.

And that fear also drives the decision of not
letting somebody else beingthreatened someone who could
take

Abs.
Absolutely.
And it makes me so happy hearing

that you're a woman, you know?

Exactly.
And at the time, again, I didn'tthink being a woman was holding
me back.
I thought my age was the biggestbattle that I was always
fighting.
I was running my mouth to showmy education of what I knew, in
spaces versus I, I refused.
I think part of me refused.
I did grow up with, with artistslike Biff Naked and people that

(27:50):
were very woman power.
So I never wanted to admit thatthe woman thing was a weakness.
but what you said, and I trulythink it is one of the biggest,
if not the biggest problems inthe music industry right now, is
the lack of educatedprofessionals in the leadership
roles.
And, and, and again, the, thepower and everything that

(28:11):
they've garnered over time.
A lot of the, the things that Iwent through and I've seen so
many other individuals gothrough, artists go through,
it's not even that the, thatthere's malicious within it.
It is just like you said, thebeing a good bullshitter has
been able to get these peoplefurther than any work or

(28:31):
developed skills.
And when

Yeah,

someone like myself comes in very naive, just
doing everything the best way Ipossibly can for them, if I'm
doing a great job, I am exposingthem.
And I didn't realize that untilmuch later in, in my career.
How could I be being treatedthis way or shut out these ways
if I'm only working for them andtrying to make them shine and

(28:56):
make them more money?
I was always just trying to lookfor validation from the, the,
those that I was working for.
Yet I was able to see just how,how much of their day to day was
pure bullshit and also justwhatever was easiest.
And I think that's when I choseto, when I, or one thing I'll

(29:16):
always remember working in a onemanagement company was there
was, it was a business deal thatwent down.
Basically it was like onemanager whose agent represents
his whole roster.
And it wasn't even a fit forthat band.
Like the, the band itself wasone genre.
I knew the genre that that Xagent represented and had a

(29:38):
network in.
And then for the manager, justto give them this artist and not
even try to build a strategy forthem because it was just like,
that stuff was really hard andshocking for me as I made my way
up in the industry to be like,wait, where's the strategy
that's gonna kill this artistThat doesn't help them?
Like, and I started realizinghow these teams, and I feel like

(29:59):
I'm going off in a differentdirection here, but the teams of
these artists weren't alwaysworking in the best interest for
them.
And yet the artists trust theirteams immensely and are giving
them all the power.
And, and yeah, I just, I did, Ihad a lot of challenges
throughout those learnings.

Well, I mean, okay, so this is great though
because I, I always thought it'sincredible that you've built
what you built in Toronto.
this isn't hyperbole.
I've felt so proud of youthough.
I don't have a right.
To pride or whatever, but it'sjust the feeling I've had of you
because I know how hard it is.
How many people, like we said,off to the promised land, so to

(30:37):
speak, and get chewed up or spitout, or if there's small fish,
big pond, et cetera, et ceterahappens, but you have some
version of tenacity that didn'tlet that happen.
Maybe there's pieces of lucklike all of us in this business
that happened too.
I'm, and it's funny that yousaid that one of the criticisms
was just, you're doing too muchbecause, uh, if I just look at

(30:59):
your, you know, like your presswork for what Lemmon
Entertainment is and that youare, you know, you're also, I
mean you're all these things,right?
So you are the, the, thebranding company kind of sub
company part to that, right?
the Lemmon stage and the piecesthat, that kind of stuff is.

(31:20):
so you have all, you have likemultiple pieces that you've, and
initiatives over the years,which again, from a business
perspective, somebody might say,what is the thing that you
actually do most of the timemight be, but so before we get
to what that truth is,'cause Ithink that's an interesting
connector between your past andeven the way you're running
things now and you just chooseto persevere.

(31:41):
So I know that you're, you getthis Lemmon stage going.
Lemmon entertainment an actualthing then, or is the stage just
like an initiative that's kindof showing promise in your
investing time in it?
And what's the connectionbetween that and actually a

Yeah.

had?

Well, I would tell you I would never, I, one of my
first jobs was at StaplesBusiness Depot and I worked in
the copy center with a lovelywoman who said, Jess, you need,
your company needs to be calledLemmon Entertainment.
And I was like, she's like,Lemmon is just the best word.
And I was like, gag garbage.

(32:19):
Never would I ever, also, I'vealways been somebody who I
really am not even doing thispodcast is hard for me.
I don't like being.
Front face.
I like to work behind thescenes,

Yeah.

and never in my, what I think to put my name on
my business.
But what happened was LemmonEntertainment was my, in
invoicing name.
I was a freelancer, I wasworking and I needed to, to have
a billing company and I set itup as, as Lemmon Entertainment.
And it was never supposed toreally see the light of day.
When I worked at, Live Nation, Ithink it was on my first week,

(32:54):
um, I worked for a promoterthere who came by my desk one
morning and said, he, there wasa band from Kitchener Waterloo
that he was friends with, and hewas like, these band, this band
needs to get on Warp Tour.
Make it happen, was my task forthe day.
So through my discovery of WarpTour that was coming to Toronto
that summer.
There was no spot for this bandto play.

(33:16):
They were fully booked and therewas nothing.
But I knew from my walk to mydesk every day, live Nation
owned an SL 100, um, which is asmall modular stage from my
years of touring with bands andbeing friends with bands.
I knew that any band would bewilling to play the Warp Tour
for free.
So I was scared of my boss,basically.

(33:39):
I knew, I was told no from WarpTour that this band could have a
spot.
So I had to get creative.
So what I put together andpitched was what if Toronto was
the only Canadian stop on thework tour?
So I pitched to Kevin Lyman.
what if we had a all Canadianemerging Act stage, um, for your
festival here, it's gonna costyou nothing.
I'm gonna look after everything.

(34:00):
It's just gonna be there.
Can it be a part of it?
And he said, I.
I don't see why not.
and there wasn't really room onthe festival site for the stage,
but I was like, they'll play thelineup.
The lineup has to wait.
I, I used to wait in the, theWarp Tour lineup.
Um, I loved Warp Tour, so I waslike, fuck if a band's playing
to me while I'm waiting to getin.
That's, that's amazing.
And that's what we did.
We set up a stage to the lineupand, um, when I told my boss, he

(34:24):
said, yep, go for it.
So I, we created, you know, wejust started scouting bands.
I think I had a few in mindright away that deserved this
opportunity.
And we had that emerging, um,stage at the festival.
Now it was probably two weekslater, uh, someone came out of
the, the office from Live NationMarketing, who I hadn't even
worked with at the time.

(34:44):
And he said, the stage is gonnabe in a paper or an ad in the
paper this week it needs a name.
And my boss yelled out, LemmonStage, and.
A logo was created, uh, from themarketing department and
suddenly I had a stage.
And for me, again, this isbeyond my wildest dreams coming
true.
This is something it's, it wasso true to me of being able to

(35:07):
support the punk rock bandcommunity that I grew up with to
be able to like give a space for10 artists to play.
But very quickly, I alsoexperienced some of the worst
hate by having the opportunity.
And I didn't realize that at thetime, but I worked in an office
where there were other women andit was sadly the woman in the

(35:30):
office that I think theycouldn't understand.
I was the new girl.
I had a stage with my name onit.
It was a special project and I.
I just started the bullying,the, the noise, like it was so
hard for me.
And that was, yeah, that was areally challenging time.
As much as it was reallyrewarding because I started to

Yeah.

how like, even being on the same team, it's not
always enjoyable.
So that's summer we got thestage up.
It was very important to me, toalign it with a cause.
So that was the first project Ibrought Mental health into the
mix.
We partnered with a local,another local not-for-profit.
It went off it incredibly andfor as long as work tour came

(36:11):
back, we had Lemmon stage.
We ended up doing a couplelittle tours bringing, uh, the
artists down to Buffalo.
And it was just when socialmedia was getting started and
the following and support forLemmon stage was, was massive.
So it.
It just like it worked with zerobudget and creative brain, and
obviously a hustle of playingall the roles and convincing my

(36:34):
friends to get involved.
Um, that's what really made ithappen.
But that, that is what I learnedwith, with the artists back in
the day.
Like, so it was easy for me.
It was so exciting for me.
And then nine months later Idecided Live Nation was not a
healthy workplace for me.
and that's when LemmonEntertainment was born.
And it's because of the successof Lemmon Stage that when I was

(36:58):
getting a business started, thelast thing I had time to think
about was, what are we gonnacall, what are we gonna call
Lemmon entertainment?
So it was Lemmon Entertainment,it was already my billing name
anyways, and that's, uh, I, Idecided to start a company where
I could control the culture,

Yeah.

little bit more.
And yeah, that's when we werefounded.

Okay.
I've been dying to hear thatstory forever, so I'm so happy
to finally hear how the Lemmonstage and all of that got going
and where it was born from, andthen how it's now connected
directly to how you started thecompany.
So the company obviously boasts.
than just production or liveevent management.
You talk about like working withartists.

(37:39):
You are, there's lots ofdifferent things that you can do
if you're good at any version ofproduction or event planning,
event management, everything inthe fabrication and technical
and onsite world, the peoplethat you see always dressed in
all black in every area of acrew, right?
Like your knowledge obviously isextensive in that, but then, you

(38:01):
know, you're boasting the, themarketing, the strategic side,
which only comes with timespent, I think, in this industry
to start to know if you havethat kind of a mind, how to
apply that thinking.
Um, obviously the burgeoning orthe exploding of social media as
a primary awareness tool in, inpromotions and investing in

(38:26):
marketing that way.
You know, the people who get itmight have some opportunities
come quicker, but this is allcoming under what you, umbrella
of what your growing Lemmonentertainment

Yeah.
Well,

I'm wondering

yeah, go ahead.

things came first.
Sorry.

Yes.
Well, my, I would say that I wasgetting the most, I.
Fulfillment in the live eventspace.
Um, and so when LemmonEntertainment started, I saw it
was right when experientialmarketing was becoming a thing
and big brands were gettinginvolved in music festivals, big
brand activations, or, a brandwould would launch with a music

(39:03):
series in different venues.
And I was doing a bit of thatwork during my time at Live
Nation and really quicklylearned that I was good at it
when I wa because I could polishup and speak corporate language
or I could speak rock and rollto the audio engineers and get
things, um, achieved that way.
So when Lemmon Entertainmentlaunched, that's what I based it

(39:23):
on, working kind of where, wherecorporate meets live events.
And I had, you know, a few.
I, I learned really early how tocreate more opportunity out of
an opportunity.
So if someone asked me to sellmerch, it's like, well, what
else do you need help with?
Or if somebody wanted, um, myhelp stage managing well, I have
a team.

(39:43):
Like I would just really makemyself available.
Uh, use the relationships thattrusted my work and, and try to
develop more out of it.
A big goal that I had when,like, it was so scary to leave
Live Nation, my dream was towork at Live Nation.
I, and I didn't know a lotabout, even when I worked at
Live Nation, I didn't even knowwhat an agent did.
Like I never knew much about themusic business.

(40:06):
I just knew Live Nation was thename on all of my concert flyers
and tickets that I went to.
So it was really scary for me toleave what was my dream job.
So as I created LemmonEntertainment, it was very
important to me to be seen thatit wasn't just me anymore.
I wasn't taking a step back.
I was taking a step over and I.

(40:26):
I was still a team.
I could do whatever Live Nationwas doing just at a boutique
level.
And, um, so when, when LebanonEntertainment was founded, I
did, I hired some people, but Istarted hiring a lot of young
people and I wanted to be amentor that I never had.
So I partnered with the, theschools in Ontario.

(40:48):
They would tell me like theywould place their students with
me.
and I would let them shadow meon, on live event productions
and stuff Very quickly afterbuilding, I had an office above
the Great Hall in Toronto.
I had a staff of, I think fivepeople.
We set up the office we were at.
Yeah, we were doing all sorts ofstuff and.

(41:10):
Out of nowhere.
I had a promoter, Jacob Smith,I'll give him a shout out
because this was another lifechanging moment of of my life,
is he recommended me for anopportunity with an agency out
of New York, for a globalproject.
And that project was calledCorona Sunsets.
At the time it was a brand newmusic festival concept that

(41:32):
hasn't, hadn't started, butCorona was always a sponsor for
the Tomorrow Land MusicFestival.
And Corona was like, we wantsomething like this.
And so it really was theredheaded stepchild of a project
from this agency.
They really didn't have time forit.
It was a corporate project, butmy name was thrown in the hat

(41:52):
and.
Long story short, I got it.
Which the conditions of the jobthough, where I had to leave my,
I had to leave Toronto, theoffice.
I had just built the team I justbuilt and move to New York, um,
and start the project in twoweeks.
And so in, yeah, again, insteadof me shutting down what I had
started, it was like, Nope, I'mgonna take this.

(42:16):
We're gonna still keep thebusiness moving.
At the time, it was a one yearcontract in New York, so I was
like, I'm gonna have to comeback to the business.
Anyways, I empowered my team,was able to support as I got
Corona sunsets going, and thenvery, my style, instead of just
playing the, the project managerrole at the time, I decided that
Lemmon Entertainment could servethe artist services role that

(42:39):
the, the project needed.
So.
That was, um, a verytransitional, um, and kind of
ignited growth in my careeragain, because I went from being
the live entertainment, kind ofproducing behind the scenes
partner to now being in chargeof a, it was a five, event

(43:00):
program with a DJ competitionthat was all across the globe.
And I had to put together theteams both on the ground,
executing the events as well asthe teams, putting together the
actual brand, um, and look andfeel of the festival.
So it was my first time workingwith creative agencies and, and
all that stuff, and concurrentlyhad to manage the business of

(43:22):
Lemmon entertainment and a teamof a bunch of juniors that I
decided to take on and mentor.
And so our business at LemmonEntertainment leveled up very
fast.
When you're starting to workwith a big company like Corona,
now you're getting otherattention and we're getting new
business.
But the, probably one of thebiggest c cha challenges I faced
in my career was when I wasstarting to get that level of

(43:44):
business, but I had to be behindall of my juniors to deliver at
my Lemmon standard we call it.
and that, that was when thepressure started, I think for
me.
but oh my gosh, what rewardingopportunity, by the way, this,
this Corona sunsets was fivebeach festivals, so, uh, and my

(44:06):
first time leaving NorthAmerica.

That's, that's pretty cool though.

Yeah.

I mean, that's a pretty big brand.
Like you've had an opportunityto work with a lot of big
brands, like some of the biggestbrands in Canada.
Like you've worked with, I thinkGray Cup, Junos, like these big
sort of event brand names, and amore recently Invictus Games,
which

Yeah.

obviously grown in its reputation and you were a
part of, but you, uh, you didn'tgo to business school.
Um, like how, how did you figureout, like, I remember when I was
freelancing in my designerdigital marketing space, going
to my friend and saying, I'mgetting busy.

(44:50):
Like, when do you know when tohire somebody?
And he was like, decide if youreally wanna be a boss.
First, because as soon as youdo, you'll stop being all the
things you're passionate aboutand you'll spend half your time
being a boss.
when, what was that like foryou?
Like how did you figure out thebusiness side of hiring people
and

No,

that change your life

All of it's, it's all quite stupid and I don't
recommend that anyone reallytakes my path.
I had a lot of survival skillsfrom a very young age, and I
also got fueled by all of theno.
And had the punk rock attitudeof, I can, I can make it.
And I also had made my literaldreams come true more than once.

(45:35):
Um, in, in the Edmonton toToronto transition.
My dream when I was, like when Iwas younger and started, was to
tour on a bus.
And for me that wasunattainable.
And so when that happened.
I like, fulfilled what I thoughtwas impossible.
And then shortly after that, Ire reformatted my, my dream to

(45:55):
just be like, I wanna have a jobthat pays me to travel around
the world.
That happened.
I had a expense account.
I was able to wine and dine thepartners that I was trying to
convince to work with us.
I also, the Lemmon stagehappened.
I met my biggest heroes, likeeverything I ever dreamed of
happened.
And most of it happened becauseI calculated it to happen, or I

(46:17):
was very involved in the pathof, of those things getting
fulfilled.
So what that did was it did giveme a lot of confidence in how I
navigated my career.
I was always very aware and abit of an insecurity that I
didn't have the formaleducation, but at the same time
I was seeing, I.
Our technology come up and howquickly the music industry was

(46:39):
changing.
When I got in the musicindustry, everything was still
gate kept in such a crazy way.
There was no information onlineto learn these things.
Um, and sadly, I didn't have anymentors that I should have been
asking these questions.
And maybe I did.
Maybe there was people in mylife that, that were willing to
support me back then, but I was,I saw so many people get shut

(47:02):
out, that I really maintained afake it till I made it attitude.
And I, it was so important forme to hold my own when I left
Live Nation and stay strong andget the business so I could feed
the mouths of my team.
I really had to, to keep thefake it till you make it thing
going.
Now I made a lot.
I should have never built, like,I call it Lemmon 1.0.

(47:26):
The first mistake I made was Ihired people that I was needing
to look after, never people thatwere really able to take a load
off me or help my business.
Um, and so, so that was a failLemmon 2.0 now, is kind of what
it came, um, during thepandemic.
And again,

two point.
We're in 2.0 now, not threepoint

I would say this is, we're at 3.0 now.

are we?

Um,

Okay.

and I think the third time is a charm.
Um, when it comes to scaling andbuilding.
Um, and I'm really taking mytime this time, but the second
time, we didn't really getthere, but after, the global
opportunity came to an end, itwas supposed to be a one year
contract, it was so successfulthat it kept going.
Um, we were involved in it forabout five years, and then when
that came to a close, I wasmentally destroyed, burnt out.

(48:18):
The pressures on me were.
Intense.
I had a half a million dollaroverhead with my business.
And again, I was, I didn't havea, any real support.
And so I decided to shut thingsdown, um, and move out to
Vancouver, which is where I'dalways wanted to be.
And that was a very harddecision to kind of scale back

(48:39):
after I, I had worked so hard tobuild.
but I had also evolved so muchduring that time.
Um, I learned so muchinternationally and tried to
bring those skills back toCanada, and I was just met with
walls.
I couldn't, what worked for meinternationally in business did
not work here.
And that for me was a bit of awake up call.

(49:01):
Like, wait, why?
Why was I able to flow so easy?
I obviously had a big projectbehind me, it's not the same as
Lemmon entertainment, but it wasall.
A lot.
It was the first time in my lifeI started to have severe panic
and anxiety attacks.
Um, experienced depression forthe first time in my life.
And so I did.
Yeah, it took me about a year tokind of scale Lemmon

(49:22):
entertainment down and then madethe choice to move out west
where I always wanted to be.
And that is where Lemmon 2.0started to ignite.
And when we transitioned fromthe live entertainment space to
at that time, I think thebusiness became very confusing
for people because we were doinga lot of things.
I was always, I was alsooffering, I, again, I never

(49:44):
learned anything about thisbusiness.
So when someone hired LemmonEntertainment, we were doing a
very good job of working forthat brand, that company.
But what I found was that wewere giving more than we were
necessarily.
Contracted for.
So if someone thought we weredoing production and we were
also handling artists anddressing room and doing all this

(50:04):
stuff, it's not valued unlesssomebody can understand and
value what they're getting.
And so what I, that's when Istarted to break Lemmon
Entertainment apart into moredivisions, um, to help speak to
the client group that I wasworking with and help them
understand the difference of thelive production, which Lemmon
was very known, known for.

(50:24):
and separate that from a lot ofthe agency service, the
marketing, the creative thingsthat we were doing when, when
asked, but we weren'tnecessarily being valued for.

Okay.
So there's literally threethings.
I'm gonna try to remember themall that I want to break down
with you real quick.
Number one.
Hearing you say that it's notsurprising when you talk about I
had this version of tenacity andall these things that happened
for me, I made for myselfbecause you were very
calculated.
which just took me back to whatstruck me when you were talking

(50:55):
about just being at Edmonton andleaving Edmonton, that you knew
I needed to do this for twomonths for free, and then I'm
gonna be there for three yearsdoing these kinda work.
And that's what it's gonna take.
Like you, a lot of people don'thave the ability to see very far
past their own nose in thosekind of choices at the age, at
that age, which you clearly did.
So I'm not surprised.

(51:15):
It's kind of cool to see, howthat sort of stayed through your
success, your ability you know,be very planned and very, uh,
thought out and analytical likethat, is pretty impressive and
pretty awesome.
The, the second thing I wantedto point out that you had just
said, Just about the businessitself and changing.

(51:36):
actually I'm gonna come back tothat one after.
So then the other one that Ithink that really sticks out to
me is you talking about thepressure and what it was doing
to you.
And I think there is so muchpressure and, and thin margin,
whether you're an artist,whether you're in the business
side and how people handle it.
And know like one of the thingsthat you've got under your

(51:57):
umbrella, whether you're doingit informally before, that's
very formal is your Lemmonfoundation and the things that
you're involved in, insupporting, which I guess I'm
gonna make the assumption thatsome of that initiative has come
out of.
F own journey and battles withown health and in the industry,
like under that?
I'm assuming you've got, I I, Iremember being so impressed on

(52:19):
social media.
I saw you had the, the fit ontour kind of initiatives and um,
you know, just the obvious like,'cause we've all grown up with
these stereotypes, right?
In the rock and roll of, youknow, what life on tour might
look like and just the, theabuse of our own bodies and our
own sleep habits and eatinghabits and, you know, whether

(52:41):
it's like, you know, the, theparty all night type thing.
And then people get surprisedwhen they hear about these bands
that are like, you know, they'rein bed by such and such a time
and they only, you know, theirgreen room isn't full of crazy
orders.
It's full of like fruit andvegetable platters and special
food and all this kind of stuff.
So the way people are.
They're starting to take care ofthemself, and you've been a part

(53:03):
of that, but I'm curious howmuch you want to talk about what
that stemmed from, from what

Yeah.

Because the downside of the hill

mm-hmm.

what usually gets talked about.
We usually get on these thingsand just talk about that
Fantastic trajectory up.

Sure.
No, the culture, when I got intothe music industry again, this
was before we were connectedonline, was awesome.
It was rock and roll, it was, itwas full of these beautiful
humans.
But now in, as I reflect, Irealize how many of them were
broken humans and how we allkind of came together.

(53:40):
But, um, to give you someexamples on the road.
If a band member like decided tobuy a green juice, he would be
shamed and bullied by the restof the crew on the bus.
a day off.
You were expected to be in the,the, the hotel barge drinking
together and spending your, yourmoney on more booze.

(54:00):
And I prominently remember a,somebody that I toured with tell
me that he used to lie to thecrew in the band and say that he
had to go call his grandma, butreally he just wanted to go for
a walk and check out a localmuseum.
Like there was, it was not okayfor people to kind of break away
from just the touring cultureand the rock and roll and the

(54:23):
drinking.
And I think when I got into it.
Um, you know, there was a lotmore information about what a
lifestyle like this does for ourhealth, and there were men I
could tell that really wanted tomake changes and do better, but
they just, you know, you had tofit in and, and I learned really
early how to fit in on, on a busand, and in a backstage area,
and make sure that I wasn'tdoing anything out of the norm

(54:45):
or interrupting anything.
But as I started to see it.
With the men.
I was like, this is ridiculous.
And I, I chose to, because Ibecame, um, in more of a
leadership role, and it's why Istarted Lemmon Entertainment was
like, I want, I want a spacewhere people, I'm making them go
to spin class on a Friday ortaking ti taking a day to work
from home and do their laundryso they can catch up from the

(55:08):
event they did that weekend.
Like I wanted to create theenvironment that people felt
safe to be themselves, do thegreat work they're doing, but
also take care of theirwellbeing and their health.
Even if that's just a walkoutside, there shouldn't be so
ashamed for it.
So fit on Tour was the firstkind of thing that, that came
out of it.
And that's because, My team wasleading a lot of festival and

(55:29):
touring productions wherebesides the Lemmon team, we were
responsible and could haveimpact on everybody else.
So, you know, it was justsomething that came with
anything Lemmon did for a longtime and was our standard that
we were able to extend toothers.
And through that started to seethe reactions and how grateful
people were and the storiespeople were sharing and opening
up about.

(55:49):
And then concurrently, um, wegot more connected online and
um, I could see there was someorganizations trying to make a
difference and there's peoplethat really were like noticing,
the support that our industryneeded.
I really early saw a lot ofproduction people that I worked
with.
Die or get sick at way too youngof an age mostly.

(56:10):
And, and their diet was beer andred bulls and I was just, it, it
was all, I was seeing it justfar too often and it was just
like, wow, we can control this.
Like we can make a differencehere.
So, yeah, again, I started doingit in my productions when I
tried to move and find a way towork with the rest of the
industry to make a differenceand make a change.

(56:30):
I was met with a lot ofpushback.
Um, and that comes down tothere's just not budgets or
there's not money to look after,the wellbeing of everybody.
And, and for me, that wasn't agood enough answer either.
I've seen a lot of, again, poorleadership, poor budgeting.
It ends up affecting those thatare in the execution of it all.
Um, because I had played bothroles, I knew a better job could

(56:53):
be done in the strategicplanning to make sure that, you
know, shifts are shorter.
The, the breaks are different.
And it does take a lot of workto set up something to be, to
look after somebody's wellbeinga little more.
But for me it's like, no, theseare just basic, right, like work
standards.
Like no one, none of thesepeople need any special
treatment.
We just need to, you know,support a little bit and make it

(57:17):
okay.
And again, it was, I was, Ididn't get a lot of support, in,
in those areas.
I also, a lot of my programswhere I tried to align myself
with other industry.
Places they just, like, theythought Lemmon was making a lot
of money off of the initiativeswe were doing, or they would
meet me with comments that justwere so shocking to me, um, at

(57:37):
the time.
And so I ended up forming theLemmon Foundation because I
thought, okay, if my passionprojects need to move under a
formal not-for-profit to betaken seriously, that's what I'm
gonna do.
So again, that's, uh, somethingI ignited.
But yes, my own, I, I personallyhad never experienced, anything
in terms of, of like a me mentalhealth until the end of my

(58:01):
global touring cycle.
And I would say the end ofLemmon 1.0.
Where, where I did ch.
That was failure to me having tolet teammates go, people that I
thought that I would hold ontoforever.
But, I started experiencingsevere depression, anxiety
attacks, started hurting myselfphysically.

(58:21):
I had a very supportive, partnerat the time that, helps kind of
push me into the rightdirections, like getting
therapy.
But then I would go to therapyand they would talk to me like I
had a nine to five job.
They didn't understand, themusic world at all.
So I was already feeling verymisunderstood day to day-to-day
in business.
I was just learning to ask forhelp for the first time, both in

(58:43):
my business, but also personallyand feeling misunderstood even
then.
and yeah, that was, that wasvery, very difficult.
and kind of made it.
Made me see how, okay, now Ihave a personal story to this.
I should be able to, to make adifference, um, through the
Lemmon Foundation and startedto, when I scaled down Lemmon

(59:04):
Entertainment, moved out toVancouver.
It's beautiful out here forwellness.
I formally introduced a wellnessside to, Lemmon and its umbrella
and started to learn a lot aboutthat space.

Well that's awesome and I appreciate you
talking about that.
Of course.
I, I think it's interesting howyou mentioned a couple of times
I.
The challenge of beingmisunderstood.
I think when it comes to talkingabout mental health in all
areas, not just music inbusiness, like the rhetoric is
around that.
It's like we sort of accept it,like mental health, like a

(59:37):
health concern, just the same asother health issues which have
always been supported

Mm-hmm.

business and in insurance and in all of these
kinds of interwoven things.
But people still aren't willingfor various reasons either to
talk about it openly, uh, withcoworkers for the reasons that
are there.
even the challenges to going andactually being authentic with a
therapist or a psychologist likeyou.

(01:00:02):
Talking about that just kind oflike, so for me, my, like, I
finally went and got diagnosedadult, A DHD,

Jess Lemmon (01:00:10):
Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson (01:00:10):
uh, was told very quickly like.
Because of your age, you'veliterally actually been dealing
with this with your whole life.
You didn't know it and gotdiagnosed, A DHD burnout.
And, my thing that keeps comingup in therapy is being
misunderstood.
So I just found that reallyinteresting that you say it
because I realize now when I,because so much of the work has

(01:00:32):
been having to go backwards and,and pull the threads and undo
assumptions, inner dialoguesthat you have with yourself, uh,
narratives that you created.
And one of them, I think is thatI'm always misunderstood and
going through therapy andrealizing, A, it prevented me
from going to therapy for a longtime, b, maybe I actually

(01:00:53):
wasn't.
Uh, how many perceptions andnarratives was I writing for
myself of this?
But nobody talked about it.
and it, it's funny like in acompletely different way, but
similar to a conversation I hadwith my last guest, Arlo
Maverick, about race, aboutgetting to a point in our
societies where we think causethere's, so, it's the
information age, the informationis out there and we think we're

(01:01:14):
doing better as a society, as acommunity.
We're doing good now becauseeverybody's talking about it and
there's these little initiativesand there maybe there's a mental
health day and there's asomething in can all these
things.
but then to be honest about.
slow the actual change reallyhappens if we don't stay
persistent with it.
So, I guess I have two questionsthat come outta this for you,

(01:01:35):
Jessica.
One is, what are theopportunities that you see, like
the easier low hanging fruitthat maybe are being overlooked
that, that people, particularlymaybe in this industry, should
be looking at, whether it be fortheir wellness where people
probably need to start tellingthe truth the most in which
area?
Let's maybe just start withthat.

(01:01:55):
Like, that's a

Yeah.

I have for you and your experience.

Yeah.
I would say one of the thingsthat I've been very stubborn,
um, to doing for my own mentalhealth, but implemented this
year that I think is the easystep for everybody to take is
rage journaling.
I think sometimes we hear about,like, especially musician stuff,
we all use writing as outletsand things like that.
But, rage journally is.

rock callback there, by the way, that's a
great punk rock callback foryou.

Yeah, is is

it.

literally just, you don't even have to be able
to read your words.
But I sit down, some people doin the morning, some people do
it at night and I put a tensecond timer on my phone and I
just, if there's anything in methat is negative, I'll start
there.
But I find within the firstcouple se sentences, um, I'm
saying just things that I'mgrateful for and doing whatever
you're, the, the exercise isjust forcing yourself to, to

(01:02:46):
write for 10 minutes straightand, and it can be a bunch of
RITs.
'cause especially you mentionedthe ad hd, which I believe I,
um, am undiagnosed, but likelyhave as well, is, it can be hard
just to like.
Right nicely.
So this can just be scribblesand you keep up with the
thoughts in your brain and, andthat's very helpful and
something that everybody can do.
Um, something that I'm workingon developing, paying with the

(01:03:07):
Leman Foundation is just a toolthat will help people who are
ready to maybe give themselvesan hour a week with therapy or
wanna explore the, the mentalhealth journey a little bit.
is a tool that will help peopleunderstand the different types
of therapy out there and whichone's right for where they are
on their journey.
What I didn't realize, isthere's so many different types

(01:03:30):
of therapy and the ones that Istarted with, they were not a
fit for me at the time.
Um, everyone or a lot of peopleare familiar with CBT therapy,
cognitive behavior,

Yeah,

literally was assigning me homework at a time
where I was buried in work.
And so the thought of like, toget better, I had to do this,
like exercise was just tearingme further away.
Now I'm at a place where I thinkI could take something like that
on and, and build those skills alittle bit'cause I'm at a
different, different part of mylife.
So I think, another thing ispeople to really, they don't

(01:04:02):
have to jump into therapy, takethe time.
There are resources online tostart learning about the
different kinds and try to findsomething that could be the
right match for them.
And, for me,

that's great

yeah, go ahead.

the way, just real quick,'cause similar advice
I had gotten was.
you have to find a therapistthat's the right fit for you.
And it's not like, like pettyshopping around for someone to
tell you what you want to hear.
It's just that I, and I learnedfrom experience.
Like I would go into a room andthat's what also took me a
little while.
I'm like, this person isn't theright fit for me.
Like it took me my third try to

Um,

land it and be willing to hear that from
somebody and then go through it,which is similar to what you
were saying too.
So I appreciate that.

yeah, no, exactly.
The person is another factor.
But that's the thing is I feellike sometimes we group, we just
say therapy is one thing.
And there's actually so many,the one that has saved my life,
and you've talked, brought it upa couple times, just different
patterns that, that we have ordecisions that we make
subconsciously.
But there is a therapy calledEMDR.

Yeah,

I don't, I never remember what it stands for.
I,

your eyelids.
It's rolling your eyelids aroundin your head essentially,

exactly as way as you can.
And that one is, is great foranybody who, does have, deep
traumas from, from anything intheir life because it actually
reprograms your, your brain and,I'm not, I don't know the
scientific terms, but also yourthought processes and the things
that, like you said.
Them being misunderstood andwhat we tell each other can all

(01:05:32):
come down to a belief systemthat we have so deep in our
brain.
But EMDR fixes it so fast, so I,uh,

up two things.
You brought up two things there,which are great.
Like one is you, you had usedthe word earlier validation, and
so when you say we have thesedeep things that are programmed,
Validation is the programmingthat we seek through our
formative developmental years,which is why whatever happens to
us as children is so incrediblylifelong, right?

(01:06:00):
And we end up in these patternsof looking for the same
validation, even if it's wrongfor us.
And I think that's very key.
And when you're talking aboutEMDR, and I've heard it talked
about a couple times as a, likea resetting and a rewiring, and
this is sort of where I neededhumility to sort of like look at
my own life these ways, is toadmit that, there's things that

(01:06:21):
are just connected there I don'tknow how they got connected.
And I'm not as, I like to thinkI'm really smart and I'm really
good.
And admit that I can't undo allof those by myself is maybe what
the hardest thing was forpeople.
But I think what I is importantto understand is we all feel
whatever version of pressure andstress the thing, we don't want

(01:06:44):
to give up the weaknesses.
We don't want to show

Mm-hmm.

it hard to make the choice to get better.
So I just want to point that outand also to say that I'm really
happy for you to hear you saylike, you've found some of these
things and been able to work onsome of these things and to feel
better.

Yeah.
It took me down to absolutelyrock bottom before I was able to
start getting better and, andkinda learning a life with these
new skills that, many, like somepeople develop much earlier in
life, but I feel like I'm justlearning how to share emotions
now.
Like it's okay to be angry, besad, be all of these things that
I.

(01:07:20):
Never was on this journey towhere I, where I was business
wise.
So yeah, I'm really, I'm, I'vealways been an advocate for
mental health.
I, in my own way, I'm not loud,I don't like to put myself, I'm,
I'm not well spoken and I thinkI'm a terrible communicator.
My partner says otherwise.
but

Your

I.

right.

I'm gonna continue to really learn about the space
and what my hope is is thatunder the Lemmon Foundation,
we're gonna be able to supportthe entertainment industry with
a lot more resources, uh,specific to, um, individual
wellbeing, and hopefully helpwith some funding for, some of
these therapies because I dohope we'll be able to make a
larger impact, in the in, in ourspace one day.

Okay.
but you're, you're heading into3.0.
You've talked about, we're likerising from some ashes.
We've had a little time to workon it.

Yeah.

you continue, you continue to be committed to
causes, which is one part Ireally love about Lemmon
entertainment.
So let's, let's, um, let's headto the finish line by talking
about that are coming up and thething that you and I had talked
about a little bit, and whetherit's just the Music Day in
Canada Initiative or, or anyother sort of one that's on the

(01:08:34):
horizon, if you want to talkabout.
I think it would be awesome'cause I love the fact that you
haven't been deterred fromcontinuing to invest in causes,
which is great.

Yeah, music Day in Canada started last year.
We had, when we reignited Lemmonstage over the pandemic, we
started to get a lot of demandfor more showcases, in different
markets across Canada.
And because that program is kindof, again, more of a passion
project that I ran and investedmy own resources in to make

(01:09:05):
happen, there wasn't much of abusiness model there to scale.
So we kind of sat back andthought, how can we take a
similar live experienceapproach, but make a larger
impact for, for Canada whilestill supporting the artists in
these communities?
And that's when, um, Michaelfrom our team came up with Music
Day in Canada.

(01:09:25):
It would allow us to, activate.
Multiple events at the same timeand start to support the, the
different communities andhopefully work with the music
organizations in thosecommunities to hear, okay, what,
what are your challenges?
And where we can make customplans for each location on how
to, um, just support them.

(01:09:47):
In some cases, that's justamplification of what's
organically happening there.
So this is our second year andour goal is to, to start
telling, um, the music storiesof all these locations on, uh,
more of a national level.
So we're partnering with, with,uh, media partners across the
country, um, to do that, uh,Lemmon Stage is going to be

(01:10:08):
offering a.
Three month coaching program toany of the performers at Music
Day in Canada.
Um, and we also use the event asa, a kind of a networking space.
We really try to, um, listen tothe, the communities, what are
the goals of, of some of themusic professionals, the venues.
Um, the individuals may beartists that aren't necessarily

(01:10:29):
performing and try tofacilitate, just like a, a fun,
nice networking space'causethat's what's always happened
with Lemmon stage.
So, yeah, that is, gonna takeplace on September 27th this
year, which is a Saturday.
And we, uh, we just started totop locations and we're very
happy to say that we've got somesupport from Alberta music in

(01:10:49):
Edmonton.
So

Hmm

really, really happy that, my, my home city
will be a part of the programthis year

Hmm.

excited to find out, uh, what we are gonna do
there.

Yeah, that'll be awesome.
Then I, I would encourageeverybody to keep their eye open
for where those things are.
I, when you sent me some of thestuff to read on it.
I just loved right off the bat.
I'm like, there's such a battleright now and a lot of varying
opinions on just how to supportlive music in general and that
culture and what impact itshould have, uh, on us.

(01:11:22):
so many different opinions andthings, but not enough action or
not enough things.
everybody deciding what has tobe the right version or not to
me, matters less than start withsome version of something.
so that's, I think I could justsort of see like, let's just do
this thing and you did it onceand now it's like, can we grow
it?

(01:11:43):
Can we, you know, can we expandthe vision

Yes, I have big

and

visions, but gotta start smaller I think to, uh.
Till I, till I can sell it tosome, some, some of the, the big
wallets that wanna support useven more.
'cause I think there's potentialfor Music Day in Canada to have
the, the big music festival andto, uh, have an online program
that allows music fans all overthe country to to tune in and

(01:12:08):
support.
And, um, our campaigns alreadyover three months long and, and
we're, what we're really help dotrying to do is not only, um,
shine a light and spotlight thetalents in these communities,
but also actively help them withthe next steps on their journey.

Yeah.

through, through our, our partnership with the,
with a Lemmon Entertainment and

Well, this is the thing, and this is why I'm so
happy to hear it, and I am likeso much wanting to see this
thing take off the way, I'mpretty sure your goals and
aspirations for it, would, wouldhave it happen because let's
just take for example, inCanada, something that has now
become a pretty massive push inthe sports world with, uh, CBC

(01:12:51):
SportsNet, uh, hockey night inCanada, starting hockey day in
Canada years and years ago.
Because,

Didn't even think of that.
That's such a good one.

this, well, the sport had changed.
It used to be all Canadian andwe weren't worried about
developing our hockey players orcommunities, but we've seen the
sport of hockey become global,so there's less, you know, it's
more competitive to continue.
That, but you have to start withgood development at every level.

(01:13:20):
And what Canada used to alwayshave was a rink in every town
across Canada.
And it became the center ofcommunity too.
So it's a really easy target tohit.
But that's that initiative,right?
It's not, you know, and themarquee is like these towns are
gonna in a contest.
they're gonna get exposure onCB, C and sports net, and then

(01:13:43):
hockey teams are gonna come andplay a game.
NHL teams.
Like that's the marquee, right?
But meat of what's happening isthe belief that.
We have to keep building theplace that happens, which is in
a community of every size,everywhere across the country.
If you want to continue to havehockey be developed and be a

(01:14:03):
culture, uh, staple for us, andI think music's the exact same
thing.
Like there should be an investedin at that level for this music
day in Canada of live music andfostering the development in
every town of every size acrossthe country.
So I'm gonna guess that yourvision is that big.

(01:14:23):
Anyhow, so, I find that really

No, it makes me very happy.
I didn't even think about thehockey day kind of thing, but
that's a good little case studyfor me to point to when I'm
pitching it to, uh, to people tosupport, because.

It's yours.

I, I really feel the, the, the biggest thing that
I've seen as a problem, um, in,in Canada is there are a lot of
great organizations trying tohelp some of the pro problems in
the industry.
There's also so much talent thatare aware of the pro, like the
problems that they're seeingfacing young talent.

(01:14:58):
But unfortunately, anybodythat's kind of trying to make
anything happen, it's happeningon too small of a scale and
we're all competing against eachother for the funds that can
actually lift up or help solvethe problem.
So my hope is that Music Day inCanada can just be an
overarching, trusted programthat everybody that's already
doing the great work can allkind of attach to.

(01:15:19):
And, and we will really listenon a very market to market basis
of what the challenges are andtry to sort and, and put
resources where they need to gobecause we can't.
Keep competing for the samefunds at a small level because
as you've seen those littlecompanies, they just are unable,
unable to sustain.

(01:15:40):
It's just, it's too much for anyof us to like solve on our own.
So we've really all gotta align,um, to do it.
And the, uh, producer in mefeels like it's gotta be a fun
experience and it's gottaattract the people and the
artists first.
And then, yeah, the, the kind ofdry not-for-profit part of it
can hide behind the scenes and,and get some work done.
So yeah, I'm excited to, uh, to,to get out there and we just

(01:16:04):
have to decide.
I'm not sure which location I'mgonna end up at this year, but,
um, cause I can only be at oneof, of all these special

to make a choice.

Yeah, I'll have to make a choice, but maybe it'll
be Edmonton and maybe I'll getto see you in person.

Oh, how lucky would that be?
Like that

It'll be awesome.

icing.
Icing on the cake.
I really hope I get a chance tosee you this year, but I'm not
gonna pressure you to chooseEdmonton.
Um, but I am gonna pressure youto choose Edmonton.
but thank you for your time andbeing willing to sort of walk
through your story from thestart to getting to where you
are following your passions.
The fact that you said you'vebeen able to live the dream

(01:16:42):
multiple times, which is reallyincredible, and how, how we can
be authentic about how crushingsome parts of that are that when
you admit I got to live thedream, the, the other side of
it, which I think is animportant story to tell.
And yet, And yet you're stillgoing, which is inspiring and
should be inspiring for all ofus.

(01:17:02):
so I appreciate hearing all ofthat.
I appreciate your time, uh, andyour support and you've been
very sweet and kind to me on topof it all, uh, as we talk, which
is always really great.
And at the end of it.
I'm actually really happy thatwe just got to connect again,
uh,

Oh my God, likewise.
And, and this was like a therapysession for me'cause I haven't
gotten to really go back andtalk about my journey for a very
long time.
So I appreciate, uh, your timeas well.

Uh, it's been great.
Okay.
I know we're gonna talk somemore, but thank you again and I
wish you all the best and I'mreally looking forward to seeing
what happens with Music Day inCanada as well.
thank

Thanks,

Super impressed.
That's code for you.
You didn't think I sounded veryimpressed.
okay, fair enough.
Fair enough.
I'll, um, I'll give myself alittle attitude adjustment on
live and on the fly.
good evening.

alexi (01:17:59):
evening

Good evening to you.
you've already enjoyed theevening outside a little bit.
Maybe.
Are, does that make you a littletired now or does that make you
feel.
What does that make you feellike mid evening,

alexi (01:18:11):
mid evening for context for people listening I just did
a cheeky little five kilometerrace with some people I don't
know It makes

but you thought it was a fun run?

alexi (01:18:23):
thought it was a fun

It was a race for them and, and a fun run for you.

alexi (01:18:28):
I everyone's like just come for enjoyment It's a run
not a race Like I'm like okayand I've been to these in the
past you know this no like itwas like the runners of Edmonton
and people were like like yeahSo like my body uh My mind

(01:18:49):
feeling great feeling energizedand I'm just like happy It's
like summer and it was stilllight out I could be out at that
hour and feel like it wasdaytime That part is quite
amazing so thankful for

That part's true.
That is very nice.
Uh, we went, I left the, uh, Ileft the office yesterday to
walk to our lunch.
And I was very excited'cause itjust had that feeling of that
thing that, uh, where we live,we wait all winter.
So it is just to come out and belike, the confidence of it's

(01:19:24):
warm and all that stuff.
All that stuff.
Um, okay.
Well, let's.
Yeah.
Like, or not even bring it inthe morning, like just have the
absolute gumption to leave it athome.
It's just the most incrediblefeeling.
Um, those are the small wins.
If anybody wonders what it'slike to live in Edmonton,

(01:19:45):
that's, that's sums it up islike our highest highs are the
day we have the gumption toleave our jacket at home.
Um, in the spring it's the best.
So, um, okay.
Uh.

alexi (01:19:58):
Yes

16, Jessica Lemon.
Jess as, uh, I confirmed in thepodcast was

alexi (01:20:05):
Yes

still on the table for her and I to talk
about.
Um, so.
absolutely.
So that was, uh, that was a funconversation for me and not a
fun conversation in some waysbecause I knew she was gonna
allow me to ask hard questionsand, and, and talk about hard
things, but fun because, uh, Igot to catch up with her and

(01:20:28):
that, um.
Uh, and again, like, uh, youhaven't seen the video of it.
Like you only listen to theaudio, right?
Like that's what you do beforethese things.
You just hear the audio of it,so you wouldn't know that those
entire conversations like theone with her, she still has such
a huge smile on her face.

(01:20:48):
I guess that's my favorite thingis that we did talk about some
tough things and um, she stillkind of has a smile on her face
and kind of happy still to.
Interact around it and, and tellthe story.
So I find that really energizingand inspiring from guests that
we have when they're like that.
But I don't know what I'm hopingthat that comes through for you.

(01:21:11):
Like when you listen,

alexi (01:21:12):
I

what do you pick up on?

alexi (01:21:14):
I feel like the last few episodes I've been like oh my
gosh you just mentioned what Iwas gonna say but oh my gosh you
just mentioned what I was gonnasay Uh I was

Whoops.

alexi (01:21:24):
no I love it I like that we're on the same wavelength so
often I was gonna say and it'swhat I said to you before
recording was like the thingthat stood out most to me
because that's usually what Ilike to write down first when I
like listen to an podcast iskind of what we've discussed in
prior episodes with like what isbeing a woman in the industry

(01:21:46):
like in the different aspects Umand I think it's like evident
that that's is like what's gonnastand out to me But I was like
reflecting on it today andtonight and I was like oh I like
I just found it so fascinatingthat she was telling a story
about when she got and I got herfirst but she thought would be
that breakout with that littletour and then you know I

Mm-hmm.

alexi (01:22:06):
stuff like she was A being just just had the raw
truth out on the table And Ithought I thought that was just
really cool cause I think um alot of the time when women share
those experiences that makebeing a woman difficult a lot of
the time they won't give thatfull truth You know it's just

(01:22:27):
like they're kind of like

It is a little glossed over still'cause.

alexi (01:22:31):
of

Because they're trying to manage.
Do you think it's'cause, I'msorry to cut you off because do
you think it's'cause they'retrying to manage still what
could come of them telling thetruth?
Because probably from yourexperience like that might not
get received well in the placesyou'd want it to.
Two.

alexi (01:22:48):
like mean I think it's a handful of things including the
fact that it's like something Imean to be very blunt it's just
like a lot of the time it's likewhen women have shitty
experiences they don't wantpeople's perception of them to
become because they tell that

Yeah.

alexi (01:23:06):
they don't

Yeah.

alexi (01:23:07):
to and so it gets glossed over or they put a

No, that's a good point.

alexi (01:23:10):
positive spin on it And I think every woman deals with
that all the time But

Yeah.

alexi (01:23:14):
interesting is a that she was just so raw about it and was
like this is exactly whathappened I was mad then I'm mad
now This was crappy And I justlike I love kind of that
bluntness and I that she wasable to be that blunt but was
like kind of like would laughafter each sentence And I don't
know if it was cause it's like

Yeah.
Yeah.

alexi (01:23:32):
her or cause she's just kind of accepted it and been
like how like stupid Um but likeno matter what kind of the
reason was for that I just likeI loved the combination of the
two and I didn't even get to seeher face I'm sure she was
smiling as well But I just lovethe

Yeah.

alexi (01:23:46):
of like the like here's my truth and here how like
here's what being a woman inthis industry is like but also
being like ha ha ugh Like

Yeah.
Well, I don't think it was like,sometimes that's like a defense
mechanism for people, right?
That you sort of just build insubconsciously.
Uh, and I didn't feel like itwas that.
I think it was, uh, I can laughabout it now and telling the
truth about it is, is not, Idon't know what the, I don't
have actually the right phraseto end that, but it's not, uh,

(01:24:16):
it.
It is not right now the way I'mtelling it, the way it was then
for me so I can maybe laugh or,or something.
So, but I mean, those are goodobservations.
Like we've had guests right, whowe're willing to be vulnerable
about the challenges of, race,gender, sexuality, like all of

(01:24:37):
these things, even, you know,guests who are just being
vulnerable.
The challenge of like failure orfeeling like it's all gonna go
away, like whatever the thingthat is or felt like the bottom
or the hardest thing to get overfor them.
And some of them larger globaluniversally shared issues maybe

(01:24:57):
than others, but.

alexi (01:24:58):
Yeah

I always wanna be able to at least look at, like,
I want to go down a layer atleast of, of like, because like,
just before we hit record, likeyou were saying, we were just
chatting for a second, and, andyou're right, like it's like we
have sort of talked about someof the subject matter, like big

(01:25:19):
picture already, but.
When you take it in throughJessica's perspective, right, of
how she had this, as part of herstory, of all the things she
built and all the, you know, andI sort of had just been writing
the intro before you and I aredoing this recording, um, and
just sort of drawing the, theline between the fact that like.

(01:25:43):
Like every reward and plus hasits challenge and its downside
that that goes with it, right?
Like there's always a shiny sideto the coin.
And then, uh, a dirty side tothe coin, it seems for a lot of
people, and that's kind ofuniversal.
But in this particular way, Iguess the layer I, I wanted to

(01:26:03):
get down is to see through hereyes what that meant right to,
to go through those things.
And it was industry, not artist,you know?
Um.
It was in a couple of differentfields and she gave very
specific examples, like yousaid, which I think really
affected the way you couldinterpret.
And I guess at the end of it,the reason I wanted to really
evaluate'em, like because shehad concerns too, like we

(01:26:26):
talked, is like she doesn'twant, she doesn't want to be a
downer episode.
Yeah.
Right.
for everybody I listened to andI listened back, and I don't
feel like that's the way it was.
I feel like what I take awayfrom it is I had all of these
challenges up against me and Ihad to sort of figure some
things out and I got successfulbecause of whatever traits were

(01:26:51):
mine.
For her.
She knew how to take skillsquickly, develop them.
Every job she did, she used asan opportunity for something
more and something new.
And so she was very crafty andskilled that way in building her
career.
And she should be really proudof that and own that.
And yet it seemed like what shewanted to communicate in her

(01:27:12):
story is that it's not just thatsome of these stereotypes still
exist, right?
It was more than that.
It was that.
The reality is sometimes thatfor every, for every big thing I
had to fight for and achieve,and I'm so proud of, and that
she said, I've lived the dreamlike three times over of what
she wanted to achieve.
It's it all of it carries itwith it.

(01:27:34):
All of this baggage, if I canuse that term, even though it's
been overused, right?
There's baggage with all of it,and that's just the truth.
And she was willing to tell thetruth and.
That's what I loved the most isthat it doesn't have to be super
universal.
And it doesn't have to be superspecific either, but it just has
to be the truth.
So yeah, I probably took threetimes as long to get to that

(01:27:58):
point as I needed to, but I hadto work it out.

alexi (01:28:00):
No I like I like when you work things out cause they come
out really clear

Okay.
Okay.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Um, let's talk about what wewere talking about in the car
real quick, because we like toshare.
Our current music obsessions andmy TikTok doom scrolling has
landed me on this guy that I'msure a lot of people may know
about and maybe a lot of peopledon't know about.

(01:28:25):
His name's Steven Wilson Jr.
And he, I think it's thiscombination of how people go
viral is, it's not like he'sdoing anything brand new, it's
just his combination.
Right of kind of dark Americana,like bluesy folk, almost the way
you'd find an indie version ofit.

(01:28:48):
Whatever you like.
You could hang a bunch of labelson this thing, depending what
direction you would personallycome from it.
But he's got, of course, aninteresting look to him.
He's got this incrediblesouthern.
Like drawl kind of vocal where,you know, it's like that guy is
only opening his mouth halfwaythe whole time he sings.

(01:29:09):
But it sounds so cool.
he's got all of that andincredible guitar playing and
it's all about his little liveperformances.
And so like my favorite TikTokwas this, have you ever seen the
comedian Burt Kreischer?

alexi (01:29:22):
I

He's a big guy with a beard that has a giant
beer belly and he does all ofhis standup comedy with no shirt
on.

alexi (01:29:28):
oh

Have you ever seen a big white guy with a beer
belly that does comedy with noshirt on?
Okay, that's Bert er.
So he has a podcast, uh, theBert Cast and it was called the
Burt Cast Unplugged, and he hasdifferent artists on, and I saw
Steven Wilson Jr.
Doing a song on that and it madeBurt Kreer cry, which apparently

(01:29:50):
isn't that hard, but it wasfantastic.
So then now I've just let thealgorithm take over.
So that's my new, that's my newobsession is So you're gonna
hear it in the car sometimesnow, just giving you a heads up.

alexi (01:30:05):
is it

Yeah.

alexi (01:30:07):
podcast playlist than I presume

Yeah, I'll, I think I'll, I think I'll take
the song that he played.
I'll take the one that he playedon the Burt Cast that I just
talked about.
It's called, I'm a Song.
It's Incredible by StevenWilson, Jr.
So yeah, I'll go on the Spotifyplaylist for sure.
What about you?
Nothing.

alexi (01:30:28):
Oh

You got nothing this week.

alexi (01:30:29):
you know what It's not new but it's someone that's like
who's okay Olivia Dean has beenon playlists of mine and then I
was like finally noticing I waslike oh she's like now on quite
a few playlists and likemultiple songs I kind of did a

(01:30:49):
deep dive Into her music And Ithink she is just like such an
easy listen this is this is herI think she's a

Okay.

alexi (01:30:59):
listen Um she's one of those like few artists cause
when people ask what my musictaste is I like joke I'm like oh
it depends on my mood It no itreally does Like and I feel like
you know this but um but there'svery few artists for me That I
can listen to any mood And sheis like one of the very few who

(01:31:21):
checks like most of the moodboxes You know what I mean Like
no I wouldn't listen to her whenI was like working out or going
for a run But like

Have we,

alexi (01:31:29):
times

have we talked about this before, that like,
'cause you have this mood app.
Do, do have, we talked aboutthat Your Spotify needs to
connect to your mood app so thealgorithm can like know where to
start on any given day.

alexi (01:31:45):
the day lists are starting to pick up on it cause
every Monday Wednesday likeFriday morning whether I'm at
the gym with you or not everysingle day list is like hip hop
rap like frat house Mondaymorning cause I listen to like
hop rap at the gym but

You never ever told me that.
Now we've been doing this forfour months and I never knew
that that was what was going onin your.
AirPods.
'cause on the way, on the wayyou're playing me this like bo
guy be shacks, um, what's hisname?
Boal.
That's terrible of me.
Let's assume we're still there.
I, the whole time we're at thegym, that's where I think we're

(01:32:23):
at.
I don't know that you're like,you're dropping like

alexi (01:32:28):
No it's

but.

alexi (01:32:30):
I was actually I made a joke to um like my boyfriend the
other day because it's like onthe way to the gym it's like my
cutesy kinda like country folkkind like maybe a little bit
indie some mornings on the

Yeah.
Yeah.

alexi (01:32:42):
And I get there and then it is like the like hardest rap
like yelling loud like Some oflike childish gambino's like
songs where he is just likescreaming the whole time and
it's just in my ears with likesound canceling So it's like
that's all

Yeah.

alexi (01:33:00):
getting fed And then on the way home I'll like play like
Olivia Dean or just some likelittle like cutesy country songs
And I'm like and then he's likethat's not

Well, no.
One of your moods are up anddown, like you're just fueling
so many different things there.
Um, well that's good to know.
See, everybody gets to listen inon me still learning new things
about you.
Every now and then, I don't haveit all figured out, but.

alexi (01:33:28):
you know that when we start to talk mid set and I take
my AirPods out that's what'sgetting paused

There you go.

alexi (01:33:34):
There we go

I'll see if I remember next time then.
Okay.

alexi (01:33:38):
Okay

Okay.
Okay.
Thank you so much.

alexi (01:33:41):
Thank

Okay.
Love you.

alexi (01:33:42):
Love you Bye

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